balance-feedback-discussion

[halcyon elk]

Only when eating.

[hollow canyon]

does it have it though?

[dusky surge]

yep

[halcyon elk]

When eating yea. Just not all the time.

[hollow canyon]

ah

cool, how good is it?

[placid reef]

Aha, so it still has that one, thought they removed it

[hollow canyon]

Can anyone calced how it works?

Or is the honor mine?

[dusky surge]

i mean, it can straight up ignore omni bites if that's any indicator

[halcyon elk]

I mean Omni lmb does nothing to a cera. We know that.

[hollow canyon]

nice

nice, nice, does it reduce the damage from the stronger attacks?

[burnt bough]

it's the devs that wrote the characteristics not me, currently the dino is less tanky than a carno that's the problem

[dusky surge]

havent tested

[dusky surge]

making it more tanky than carno is a bizarre choice

[hollow canyon]

it's not

[placid reef]

He does tank, tanks status effects, what you mean is spongy

[hollow canyon]

it'd be dumb

[frail bobcat]

you take the characteristics from a source called unhelpful document

[hollow canyon]

Carno is much larger

[halcyon elk]

It's tanky in regards of status effects. Not in raw damage. They never specified.

[dusky surge]

it's an animal that's supposed to be resilient FOR ITS SIZE

and it is

[placid reef]

Probably more resilient than most other dinos will be too tbf

In terms of status effects

[hollow canyon]

also reducing its biteforce is ewww

[burnt bough]

carno has 1800 kg, cera is 1300 it's a 500 hp diff

[dusky surge]

no other animal even comes close to the amount of defence it has, from bacteria, to 3 different kinds of resistance, to its great turn radius

[halcyon elk]

Yea. Cuz ceras a MIDGET

[hollow canyon]

which is quite a bit, obviously

[dusky surge]

so either you want to dwarf carno or make cera absurdly oversized

because cera is already oversized

[placid reef]

So whats the issue here?

[burnt bough]

carno has long legs that it cera is a big

[placid reef]

Cera is also somewhat slim on top of that

[halcyon elk]

Well over 500kg oversize

[dusky surge]

wh

[burnt bough]

carno beats up cera

[dusky surge]

so don't facetank a carno

[halcyon elk]

Actually it's 50/50

[burnt bough]

he is faster and can charge

[burnt bough]

charge not counted

[hollow canyon]

nah it's about the size it should be, BYUVP 12893 specimen is around that size(not properly described unfortunately)

[dusky surge]

you are more agile and have bacteria along with a charged bite that does nearly the same damage as a charge

[placid reef]

If only his acceleration wasnt garbage and had the agility of a stone

[frail bobcat]

a and d exist, also wiggling your mouse

[hollow canyon]

and you bite faster

[dusky surge]

and you bite faster, yea

[placid reef]

Also vommit locking exists

[dusky surge]

god i hate vomit lock

[burnt bough]

carno goes away if you charge, a carno that knos what his dinos does can beat a cera ez

[halcyon elk]

You need considerable distance in 6.5 to charge now. And with stamina pool drain increased you really can only do two charges before you lose your stam

[halcyon elk]

And so can a cera.

[dusky surge]

it's funny, cera is the only good matchup carno has, it's quite literally garbage in the Stress Test without cera matchups

[burnt bough]

doesn't matter he charges if he miss you, you run away

[dusky surge]

with what stamina?

[frail bobcat]

carno is really garbage now

[burnt bough]

carno is strong only vs cera ???? XD

[dusky surge]

idk if you know this but carno's charge stam is quite literally shaving off 6 seconds instantly

[halcyon elk]

If he missed I can just give him a vomit inducing bite and poof. Stam gone.

[old hull]

they basically turned it into legacy carno without the massive benefit legacy carno had , its fantastic stamina

[dusky surge]

yes. it's literally so trash in the stress test

[burnt bough]

there's no stamina drain if the carno keep charge and kite well

[hollow canyon]

yea, it's garbage in the ST as per opinion of every ST I spoke to

[dusky surge]

there is stamina drain

[burnt bough]

you can't he is faster

[dusky surge]

you instantly lose 10% stam for activating charge

[burnt bough]

if the cera hit but the carno is faster doesn't matter

[halcyon elk]

Just run to the left or right. Or bait the carno.

[burnt bough]

then you run away ur faster

[burnt bough]

that wont help you win

[dusky surge]

i literally have played cera in the matchup, you have literally no idea what you're on about

[frail bobcat]

there is a funny little thing called outstamming

[halcyon elk]

It will if the carno misses

[burnt bough]

i've seen it

[dusky surge]

i've played it

[burnt bough]

if ur good on canro you know when to run

[dusky surge]

carno is trash, trust me

[burnt bough]

how the carno is fatser

[frail bobcat]

did you play the stresstest?

[burnt bough]

ok good for you xd

[halcyon elk]

Turn radius for carno charge is very bad.

[dusky surge]

you watching cera fumble a carno fight isn't the same as experiencing it first hand

[halcyon elk]

He has experience and actually KNOWS HOW things work.

[old hull]

i just dont understand why they would nerf it so hard and still keep its poor stamina , the whole reason carno got given bad stamina in the first place was to balance out its stupidly good turn before , now its got neither

[burnt bough]

yeah but you can still turn has i know

[frail bobcat]

I have seen people solve a rubix cube and I dont know how it works

[burnt bough]

there arn't good carnos in stress test

[halcyon elk]

But it's still bad enough where a cera can become a matador.

[hollow canyon]

yea this is just so bizarre people watching videos on youtube think they have the better idea than the STers who all say Carno is trash, Cerato is its best match up and even in that one match up Carno can very easily get killed

[dusky surge]

yes there are lol, they stopped playing carno because it sucks so badly its not worth playing

[golden coral]

@burnt boughFrom what I've seen and heard, cera can handle itself decently well, even against carno. I don't think there's much of an issue here. There are far more potential issues than the cera/carno matchup from what I can tell as well.

[burnt bough]

then the carno run away middle stam in the forest and boom no matador

[dusky surge]

carno is a whole bag of worms. It has the makings of a good pursuit predator, but still is designed like a terrible ambush hunter, doing neither well

[halcyon elk]

Congratulations. The cera has won the encounter by forcing you to flee from your kill.

[dusky surge]

no no i need to kill it otherwise no win

everything needs to die

[hollow canyon]

not that Cerato has a vastly larger stamina pool and can simply pursue the Carno

[halcyon elk]

Rule of thumb: NOT ALL FIGHTS END IN A DEATH.

[burnt bough]

what did they nerfed on carno ?

[halcyon elk]

If you wanted to be bloodthirsty

[hollow canyon]

charge hitbox, charge turn, acceleration

[burnt bough]

that's it ?

[old hull]

carnos changes over the years feel like they are made by someone who doesnt have a vision for what it should be doing and just randomly nerfs or buffs whatever stats they want on a whim , it has gone from amazing stam mediocre damage to no stamina and turns as good as a raptor to now not being able to turn at all and still no stamina , cmon devs just commit to something and quit ping ponging the stats lol

[halcyon elk]

There's also a few other things notably a 10% Stam take off per activated charge and a much faster drain

[hollow canyon]

are you serious? There's just about nothing that remained buffed on this creature since its state in U3 EVERYTHING got nerfed

and everything got nerfed hard

[halcyon elk]

Devs might have done an oopsie

[hollow canyon]

even watching someone play Carno looks just uncanny and wrong

[golden coral]

That's a lot. From what it seems, carno isn't really good anymore, what with those nerfs plus prior bad things.

[hollow canyon]

this thing turns unnaturally badly

in every way pretty much

[old hull]

tbf update 3 carno was absolute awful to deal with , it needed to be nerfed hard , it was in a decent position in update 6 if we dont count the completely broken charge hitbox and charge turn

[dusky surge]

Let's see

• Worst NV range of any carnivore
• Worst stamina pool on any carnivore
• Charge literally takes 10% stam on activation, then 10% stam per second
• Worst acceleration rate of any carnivore
• Worst swim speed of any carnivore
• Worst swim stam in the GAME
• Fastest bleed rate of any animal
• Worst standing stam regen of any land predator
• Worst turn radius of any land predator
• Worst bleed output of any land predator
• Fastest hunger drain of any carnivore
• Most limited diet of any carnivore

Some of these are new. Some of these are older issues. All are relevant to why it's so bad

[old hull]

which for some reason it still does turn faster while charging , who tf thought to keep that

[frail bobcat]

carno really is bad when you see all of it on a chart

[hollow canyon]

it has a worse stamina than Stego btw

[dusky surge]

Oh I know

[burnt bough]

that's not the nerfs, hal ur saying was here before the "big nerf" and it was strong

[hollow canyon]

it was strong because it had a football field-sized charge hitbox and an amazing turn on charge

and it accelerated fast

[unborn iris]

I feel like they only needed to adjust carno charge hit radius and the stat-gain curve on growing carnos.

[hollow canyon]

making hitting the charge easy

[hollow canyon]

same tbh

[unborn iris]

I'm not arguing what would make carno "how it's supposed to be", just what would make it somewhat balanced right now.

[hollow canyon]

although the stat gain was a global problem

[unborn iris]

Yeah

[golden coral]

I'd say that's good, makes charge useful for pursuit if you can actually keep up with the agile things you're supposedly meant to terrify :p

[dusky surge]

Okay, let's only get the nerfs specific to U6.5 then

• Worst NV range of any carnivore
• Charge literally takes 10% stam on activation, then 10% stam per second
• Worst acceleration rate of any carnivore
• Worst bleed output of any land predator
• Fixed the hitbox which was the only reason it was good in U6
• Reduced diet options significantly, giving it the most limited diet of any carnivore

I also updated the previous list

Missed some important weaknesses it had

[placid reef]

wait its per second too? 💀 God that horrible to a whole new level

[hollow canyon]

yea Carno is going to be trash on this update

[dusky surge]

Unless something is done

stress testers are running a riot (myself included) to make this animal worth playing

[frail bobcat]

Burn it down!!! all of it

[old hull]

lets just hope the devs dont do a typical isle dev thing of going to far in the other direction and over buffing carno into the moon... again

[dusky surge]

The hell kind of file is that

[old hull]

they very allergic to making small changes and see what it turns out like

[golden coral]

I think omni takes that spot this time around (again) :p

[old hull]

oh yeah that thing has bounced from utterly useless to completely overpowered so many times ive lost count

[placid reef]

Omni and Carno are on a see saw, it can never reach true equilibrium

[unborn iris]

Actually maybe they needed to change the charge needing to be activated a little before it can hit. Kind of broken how you can just activate it inside someone right now.

[dusky surge]

More specifically, omni goes from well-balanced (but bugged) to vastly overpowered because it was bad because of the bugs

I have yet to see a single update where omni was just outright bad on its own accord

[golden coral]

Hopefully it'll be okay, but no endlag on pounce/on miss, and all that, I do worry :p

[dusky surge]

U6 it was bad because of the carno charge bugs and the fact everything else was overtuned (namely pachy, carno and deino, who all obliterate it)

[placid reef]

Tbh, bugs, esp u2 era, make it hard to rate how good Omni actually was

But I see your point

[old hull]

the current live build its pretty bad , but i guess that depends if you consider the bucking stam thing a bug or not

[golden coral]

I wonder if it'd be better for carno if the cost on activation was only 5%, and the same cost then for keeping it up

[dusky surge]

the bucking stam isn't even that bad

like, generally, you can still hunt with it

[unborn iris]

Yeah, omni is fine. With a completely working pounce it's probably already OP in 6, without carnos everywhere with big charge.

[golden coral]

I would say it's a bit of a "bug" in that it drains in chunks. I would have liked to see how well omnis do if it was smooth drain, like sprint.

[old hull]

yeah it shouldnt be your opponent holds E for half a second and your on the floor stunned

it drained so quick the UI couldnt even keep up sometimes

[golden coral]

Extreme drain I think was an actual bug, but even if it worked, the chunk drain makes it way harder to react than it should be

[old hull]

agreed

you know what else is not looking too great in the ST , the pachy

[dusky surge]

pachy actually is not that bad

[old hull]

i get it , the stun it had was very oppressive and annoying to deal with but just yanking it out made the poor thing just kinda wack , you are basically guaranteed to take atleast get hit once by whatever your trying to fracture

[dusky surge]

i thought pachy would be worse than it ended up being

[golden coral]

To be fair, pachy has head "armor", so the whole tanking a hit isn't entirely bad perhaps? Issue would be more the bleed it takes possibly?

[old hull]

wait thats a thing?

[placid reef]

Ye, its head takes less damage than its body

or same as body

[dusky surge]

less than

it takes 0.75 damage to head

[placid reef]

There you go

[old hull]

is that new or has it always been like that?

[placid reef]

Always has been

[old hull]

hmm the more ya know

so the removal of the lil stun on missing a pounce , any thoughts on that?

[dusky surge]

silly

[old hull]

yeah i saw red flags all over when i heard that , cuz i remember how awful utah combat was when it didnt have that

especially utah vs utah , it just turned into right click spam until a pounce connected

[placid reef]

I like the idea of it but its a very fine line on how long it should last, and that line is surely not removed

[slim dragon]

And yet I had someone argue for hours about how omni NEEDS to not have a stagger after missing a pounce

[old hull]

yeah , they already had reduced the duration of it on 6 and it was more then fine , it was less then a second so why remove it

[slim dragon]

Oh wait I recall it was that dude
It doesn't count

[dusky surge]

OH WAIT, THAT GUY?

Oh God

The idea of him ever being proven right is horrifying

[placid reef]

Who, that Frosty guy?

Last I was here he surely had takes

[slim dragon]

No, much worse

[dusky surge]

No, worse

[placid reef]

Theres someone worse than frosty? 💀

[dusky surge]

Infinitely

[placid reef]

Nahh

[slim dragon]

Someone that is the reason I was muted for the past 24 hours (I deserved it but I regret nothing)

[old hull]

what did he say stego is perfectly balanced and needs a damage buff? lol

[dusky surge]

I got muted for a week because of him

Again, deserved, but I did what I had to

[dusky surge]

I mean, that's by far not the worst take I've heard

[placid reef]

Anyone got a link?

[dusky surge]

Frankly I think we're crossing lines even mentioning him so I'd rather not

[frail bobcat]

you too? Nvm different convo

[slim dragon]

There is the beginning of the conversation

[placid reef]

Wow, read the first mesage I saw... wow...

Speechless

[dusky surge]

He's like that, all the time

[placid reef]

Man.... wow

[slim dragon]

was*
Thankfully he's no longer here (I saw his alt account has been banned too)

[old hull]

i read 2 sentences of already i see just nonsence lol

like saying carnos charge has no punishment , does he realize that has his stamina just evaporated? lol

[placid reef]

The moment I see fodder used in an argument ik waht else to expect

[stark knoll]

This isn't a channel to insult people

In fact, no such channels exist in this server

[golden coral]

The issue I've seen with the "but you lose stamina" is that A, when people say omnis can spam pounce, they don't mean spam in just doing it in a row, more so that with no punishment, you can just use it whenever and risk very little, even if you don't care to aim, and of course B, omnis comes in pack, even if you did run lower on stam, just break off and let your packmates take over, like you'd do with successful pounces anyway and as good omnis should work together

[dusky surge]

Yea, I also just... Don't like it conceptually

It's a 450kg animal launching its WHOLE body at you

Then landing like its nothing

[slim dragon]

Some people's arguments is that other abilities have no punishment for missing them
But I'd rather have all abilities come with a punishment if you miss rather than none of them having one

(Also they tend to mention stego and teno's tail attacks, which are NOT special abilities in my opinion, just additionnal attacks)

[placid reef]

Same, I like having the recovery, just how long it is is a very fine line

[dusky surge]

"but this heavily telegraphed attack which only works well at specific angles doesn't have a penalty for missing!"

it leaves you open for counterattack

[old hull]

its basic videogame stuff to punish bad play and reward good play , so why let bad raptor players just get away with constant misses , teno gets punished for missing its attacks , so does stego (barely) and pachy etc etc , it encourages the player to get good at it so they dont die

ive played the raptor at its worst and never did i want that stagger for missing removed

[golden coral]

Exactly. Now if stego has some actual good and interesting mechanics... but alas xD

[placid reef]

I got close to wanting it removed when it was like 2 sec long... but most of the time it was just make it faster

[slim dragon]

I'm honestly not sure what cool abilities or mechanics stego could have
Apart from better tail control

[old hull]

fair enough

[burnt bough]

how is that 500 kg diff

[dusky surge]

what is that supposed to prove? Neither of those images are to scale

cera stands a little taller than omni. Carno stands almost 2x higher

[placid reef]

Carno is almost twice its height and is wider too

Only thing you prove is weight distribution, one is closer to the ground so more stable and the other further

[slim dragon]

Galli is lighter than omni
Dryo is 1/4 of omni's weight despite being almost the same size
And you choose to complain about carno and cerato's weight difference ?

[placid reef]

God, I forgot Dryo is almost the same size as Omni, never see them

[burnt bough]

Cause the cerato is peant to be tanky

[slim dragon]

It is
Cerato is extremely resistant for its size

[burnt bough]

To everything exepct damage it's bad

[placid reef]

How

[slim dragon]

Define "bad"
From what I've seen, cerato seems pretty decent at what it's supposed to do, if not too good

[placid reef]

It has no armour like Anky, how do you want it to tank damage?

[burnt bough]

It's supposed to be "tanky" and "bully" but have 500 gk diff with the carno that is made to be fast that's not fair. He is eve' with the carno

[slim dragon]

The fact cerato can even go toe-to-toe with carno, a much larger animal, shows how strong it is.

If you want an animal that is able to delete carno without effort, better wait for allo or alberto

Not everything has to kill carno in order to be viable

[burnt bough]

@slim dragon carno isn't large at all compar to cera

[placid reef]

Well, we have Deino and Stego but ig you meant more mid tiers

[burnt bough]

Cera is even larger

[placid reef]

Huh?

[slim dragon]

I'd say a 500 kg difference is big enough

[coral wind]

Isn’t carno superior to cerato in every single way except survivablity?

[slim dragon]

What ? Larger than what ?

[placid reef]

You say Cera is larger than Allo, and Alberto?

[burnt bough]

Yes

[halcyon elk]

Carno has long and MEATY legs

[slim dragon]

"Isn't carno superior to cerato in every single way except the one that matters ?"
Yeah, possibly

[burnt bough]

You tougj carno was an apex ?

[burnt bough]

Yeah that why he look big

[placid reef]

Carno is a mid tier, noone said its an apex

[slim dragon]

No but I don't get how it is relevant

[burnt bough]

Look at my picture

[frail bobcat]

it does not skip leg day

[halcyon elk]

And why he is 1.8 tons. Its in dem legs.

[slim dragon]

Also the fact carno is built like a barrel, as opposed to cerato being built like a billboard

[halcyon elk]

In the ecosystem that has been made so far he means*

[placid reef]

Carno is wider, Cera is mostly as thick as his skull

[burnt bough]

The cerato if bigger than the carno, carno has more 500kg

[slim dragon]

If weights were realistic cera would be ~1 ton instead of the current 1.3 ton

[stark knoll]

It isn't bigger than carno

[halcyon elk]

Some estimates even say 500kg.

[placid reef]

Ig, but using these terms like that just makes it more confusing

[coral wind]

Cerato was supposed to be the small brawler to take on carno despite its small stature like dibble

[stark knoll]

And it can

[burnt bough]

It is

[stark knoll]

Good ceras kill carnos, bad ceras die

[slim dragon]

Hmmm, not at that size
This estimate is for smaller specimen, our cerato is still visually decently large

[halcyon elk]

Oh.

[placid reef]

Cera is smaller and lighter than Carno. So please explain how

[stark knoll]

If you're referring to real life, it isn't, and if you're referring to your earlier image, you didn't scale the dinos to each other

[halcyon elk]

Cera weighs 1,300 kgs in game. Carno weighs 1,800kgs. That's a big difference

[stark knoll]

If I put an image of a dryo next to an image of a rex, and make those 2 images the same size, it doesn't mean that dryo and rex are the same size

[burnt bough]

Yeah that's my complain doesn't make sens

[slim dragon]

How does it not make sense ?

[placid reef]

You scaled them to the image ratio of 16:9, not the actual dinos

[halcyon elk]

It does when you consider tenacity and how septic bite works.

[slim dragon]

Both are scaled quite accurately to their real-life counterparts (although again, cerato is a bit upsized and carno downsized)

[placid reef]

Isnt this Cera just the higher estimates? Not likely nor confirmed but possibilities

[slim dragon]

Last time I checked largest estimate was like 1.1 ton
Might be outdated tho

[halcyon elk]

Tenacity alone can win some battles by getting an animal to leave. Honey badgers for example are able to hold off a lion pride because of sheer tenacity and audacity.

[slim dragon]

I just had a flashback of a video where a cera stunlocks a carno to death

(And it's also why I think vomit shouldn't stop you so you can still run away in this situation)

[halcyon elk]

I mean most people wouldn't run away.

[slim dragon]

The smart ones would, and they should be allowed to

[halcyon elk]

Fair

[slim dragon]

A cera forcing a carno to retreat through infectious bites is okay, stunlockin it to death without giving it a chance to do anything isn't

No matter what game you're trying to do, if there is a stunlock something went wrong (except Dota 2 but that game's entire gameplay is about stunlocking opponents)

[halcyon elk]

Let's use what we know in two scenarios. Both of which have the following
Plain grassland and forest relatively close.
1v1 carno vs cera.

The first scenario is cera taking the initiative stealing a kill from a carno. The objective is to not kill the carno. But to get it to leave. The carnos objective is to keep the kill as it needs food.

Both cera and carno are of equal skill and know the match up.

The first scenario has about 5 different outcomes. 3 having death. And 2 don't.
1st outcome is the cera steals the corpse and the carno flees with stomach sickness.
2nd outcome is that the cera takes the corpse and kills the carno.
3rd is carno winning but now has to deal with vomit sickness as the cera left
4th the carno killed the cera though the cera gave it vomit sickness
And the 5th is the carno just gives up the corpse and finds more food.

I may have miscointed death and not death

[coral wind]

@halcyon elk So what was the goal in your paragraph?

[halcyon elk]

The goal is to show the match up between cera and carno in a specific situation.

[burnt bough]

500 kg diff

[golden coral]

@burnt boughCerato is 500 kg lighter than carno, yes

[burnt bough]

but has you can see he is bigger

[dusky surge]

what

you've literally shown off a perspective shot in the first picture

the cerato is closer to the camera than the carno

it looks bigger as a result

[golden coral]

Cerato is not bigger than carno?

Visual "size" also does not mean weight, so there's that too

[dusky surge]

reminder carno has the density of an animal that is entirely muscle

look at chimps

much smaller than us but VERY heavy due to sheer muscle density

[burnt bough]

You see my pictures ?

[placid reef]

I think its time to drop the size charts

[frail bobcat]

yes

[golden coral]

Your pictures are not neccesarily accurate. The real life animals aren't sized like that, and the ingame playables are also not sized like that. On top of that, I did point out that visual "size" is not the same as weight. Carno is, in both cases, larger than cerato. Cerato is not a large critter, or bulky even.

[placid reef]

Cera is one of the few creatures that is slim, most have their body wider than the head

[keen plover]

That Carno isn't a full adult lmao

[burnt bough]

He is i wtached the video

[burnt bough]

Just test urself u'll see

[placid reef]

Actual sizes likely arent exactly accurate but this is roughly the idea

As you can see, Cera is thinner and shorther

Also the weight estimates there are totaly garbage btw

[slim dragon]

Someone just posted a size chart comparing the two in isle discussion

[placid reef]

Yep there we go, 2 dif charts and same result lol

[slim dragon]

I can't believe we need to show proof that cerato is smaller than carno...

[placid reef]

At least now its definite

[burnt bough]

Again as you can see carno has long legs

I'm sorry but the leg difference isn't 500kg

[placid reef]

My guy, look at the width dif

Carnos body is twice as wide as its head, unlike Cera which is barely wider

[golden coral]

It's not just the legs, its you know, all of the body.

[burnt bough]

let me check

wait that's not a game picture

we can't compaire

[golden coral]

Hm?

[placid reef]

The 2nd chart is indeed

[burnt bough]

the fact this imagine isn't official make it all faulse but here you can see that there is no sens in a differentation 500kg betwin these 2

[slim dragon]

Again you overlooked the fact carno is also much wider than cera

And I don't even know what all of these rectangles mean

[frail bobcat]

Love how even the picture says that carno is much heavier than cera

[dawn falcon]

Square cube law dictates that Carno is objectively larger than Cera.

[burnt bough]

yeah whaty i mean is that that's not 500 kg

[burnt bough]

we do'nt have any images but min to see wich one is wider

[frail bobcat]

the picture that you used literally says that

[burnt bough]

you know wht 500kg means ?

[frail bobcat]

its about half a ton

[slim dragon]

#balance-feedback-discussion message
What about this one ?

[burnt bough]

the differane can't be half a ton it's litteralyt imposbiel

[frail bobcat]

its very much possible

[golden coral]

Well, it is, at least in game. Just accept it, those are the values set, for whatever reason. Same as with any other playable.

[burnt bough]

from the moment you tried to say that what I said was wrong you can't say that

[dawn falcon]

Based on what information.

[burnt bough]

reality

[frail bobcat]

@dawn falcon I think the longer activation time for ram can stay, the charge startup cost and the rest would be nice to be reverted. a very based suggestion, I gotta say

[stark knoll]

In reality, cera was 1000kg smaller than carno

[burnt bough]

these images arn't the same size

[golden coral]

Well, you are wrong if we look at the IRL animals, carno is noticably larger than cerato from what I know at least. And in game, it's also noticably larger than cerato, and even if they were visually the same size, weight can still be different. In the game, carno weighs 500 kg more than cerato, that's just how it is.

[slim dragon]

Compare the proportions

[golden coral]

But it doesn't matter if it was x or y in real life, since the game takes precedence.

And the game has, at least for now, decided that cerato is smaller than carno

[burnt bough]

there is a black square i can't

[golden coral]

You might not think it looks accurate, but well, galli looks about omnis size but is apparently ligther, pachy on the other hand is heavier/"larger".

[dawn falcon]

I agree

[stark knoll]

The black square is 1 square meter

[frail bobcat]

maybe add that to your suggestion

[slim dragon]

You very much can
It only takes a glance to see that carno is proportionnally much wider than cerato

[dawn falcon]

I’m working on a giant pursuit predator “fix” so I’ll probably add it to there when I send it.

[burnt bough]

no it's not

[frail bobcat]

looking forward to it

[frail bobcat]

based on what?

[stark knoll]

It is, that's what those squares are for in skeletal diagrams

[dawn falcon]

Tell me you don’t understand the square cube law without telling me you don’t understand the square cube law.

[burnt bough]

if hte quare is 1 meter it does that

[burnt bough]

im' not english

[frail bobcat]

the square cube law is not english, its maths

[dawn falcon]

Smith is referring to the square-cube law, a mathematical principle first described by Galileo Galilei as "the ratio of two volumes is greater than the ratio of their surfaces." In other words, as an animal increases in size, its volume will grow faster than its surface area, so larger animals need much larger limbs to support their weight. If we were to merely scale up an elephant by several orders of magnitude, the square-cube law holds that it would collapse — its mass would increase by a power of three, while its limbs would increase in size by a power of two.

Even by square cube law standards, regardless of Carnos proportions, it is, by definition, larger than Cera. I don’t even know why this became such a big deal.

[burnt bough]

I didn't leanred that

look a little stupid if you'd ask

[slim dragon]

https://youtu.be/phXjBf3X7Eo
Here's a very good video on the topic

It's even got 2 likes

[frail bobcat]

admns, admins, self promotion

[slim dragon]

That's more than what I could have ever dreamed of

[slim dragon]

sssshhhh it's Isle fanart

[burnt bough]

ah i see

tho i why make that in a 2d picture

[slim dragon]

The pictures are 2D, but the animals we're talking about are 3D

[burnt bough]

tu est frnaçais ?

[slim dragon]

oui

[frail bobcat]

Baguette

[burnt bough]

U look smart

[placid reef]

That means it has to be true!

Best videos are the least known, thats a fact

[halcyon elk]

200N is just silly.

[sterile valley]

If it were lower, it would be completely useless, just a weaker slower carno. It's supposed to be able to bully off of bodies, but it's just too weak

[halcyon elk]

BRO HAVE YOU HEARD OF VOMIT LOCKING.

[golden coral]

No, cera was fine, now it'll most likely be overtuned

[sterile valley]

Woah, lol. Didn't expect to be yelled at...

[halcyon elk]

Im just damn livid. Who in gods green earth suggested this?

Cera was fine beforehand. Just skill based

[sterile valley]

You may be right, but it just seems so weak. It has thick skin, but seems to die fairly quick from what I've seen

[golden coral]

I think the issue there is mostly that people mistake "tanky" for resilient, or tanky for it's size. It has damage mitigation while eating (apparently enough to ignore omni bites), and fracture/bleed resistance, meaning it's still, compared to teno and carno, "tanky" for it's size.

[mental roost]

The only issue I’ve really seen with Cerato is its durability: supposed to be a resilient gremlin for its size, but why, why, 200 damage a normal bite is nuts, and means Ceratos will just delete eachother(the mirror match up for it right now seems a bit rough as is, like Deinos was initial U3)

[dawn falcon]

Keep in mind

200N means a 400n full charged bite

[mental roost]

If that lands a headshot(1.2 multiplier last I heard), that’s 480 damage…

[burnt bough]

He sould'n't be a fighter he should be a scanvanger that defend well his food

This buffs is a mistake

[frail bobcat]

its 1.5

[mental roost]

600 if that’s the case…

Ceratos make eachother spontaneously combust with just one charge bite

[halcyon elk]

Hes a scavenger + bully. Essentially supposed to force predators off their kills

[coral wind]

Maybe they’ll nerf cera s speed or stamina? Later on with this new update

[halcyon elk]

No no. Just revert the damage maybe not fully but make it close to carnos.

Imo I'd just revert its bite as that was fine as is.

[dusky surge]

WOW REALLY

<@&933486433342222376> LOOK FREE NITRO!

i'm sure they'll be glad to hear about it

he's shared it in #balance-feedback too

thanks lads

[keen plover]

I'm not against Cerato jumping but

not on top of what it has

[placid reef]

Tbh, Cera, if it also is in a full group, wouldnt even worry about Carno if all know to dodge, as of latest patch

[primal token]

Hey guys is there anywhere to see the new stress test balance changes?

[mossy jasper]

YouTube

They finally upped the bite Force to 200

Just as I wanted

[dusky surge]

i hope they nerf it lol

they made an already fine animal far too strong

[main helm]

Unpopular opinion : the start of the stress test was nicely balanced.
( just nobody could reasonably judge due to the difference in skill gaps and newly made dinos )

[dusky surge]

nah

carno was absolutely pathetic and still is

[main helm]

..... aight then just carno from update 6

which is a bit busted due to the hitbox.

[primal token]

I will never trust someone to balance carno with carno in his name

[dusky surge]

thank you

ackowledging the bit

[primal token]

wut xD

[main helm]

do not let them fool you indeed

[slim dragon]

Carno mains when their beloved killer predator isn't able to kill everything on sight with no possible counterplay :

[primal token]

yeah lol

[dusky surge]

i have been mr. everything so far

every niche

[slim dragon]

ok mr. carno

[dusky surge]

wow you're calling for an early rebranding

[placid reef]

We have to get ready for the imediate flood of Cerarex mains, there will be 2 of them now 😭

[slim dragon]

Please do
Being unviable doesn't suit you anyways

[main helm]

I like update 6 carno, but that's probably because i like a challenge. A teno vs a carno is still teno sided over there... and omni just, that thing has never been in a good balanced position.

[dusky surge]

update 6 carno was horrible, a terrible animal carried by a completely absurd bug that made it insufferable to play with or against

[slim dragon]

Uh update 6 carno ? Teno-sided ? Are we talking about the same update 6 ?

[main helm]

I'm not the worst at teno, so i guess that uh plays into a bit.

[dusky surge]

U6 carno SHOULD have been bad, but a single bug carried it to being the most annoying and broken animal in the game

[main helm]

The hitbox is completely absurd indeed tho pff

[open rover]

Defending its food, or driving other predators off theirs REQUIRES fighting. If cerato can't fight, it can't bully things

[dusky surge]

for real

genuinely just unfair and unfun in all elements

i thank the devs endlessly for obliterating that bug because it was the lamest thing in this game's history lol

i do wish carno wasn't this bad tho after U6

[main helm]

But the main thing that was great about it is that it encouraged the strategies that didn't only involve ambushing tho.

[dusky surge]

because you'd be rewarded regardless if you were even LOOKING at the opponent, which I don't think is a good compromise

[main helm]

But it was still aight against tenos and pachys that didn't suck, since they could intercept you and you had to actually think it out a bit and unless the desync was bad enough you could reliably counter attack aggressive pachys.

[dusky surge]

pachy was also just... insanely OP, and it was very much capable of ruining a teno's day by abusing the hitbox

[main helm]

Pachy vs teno is always a lose on the tenos side unless it knows what to do.

[dusky surge]

the only thing stronger than U6 carno was U6 pachy

[dusky surge]

even if the teno knows what to do, they're dead against pachies who knew how to dispatch teno

[main helm]

If the teno knows what to do, then i guarantee you it's a very fun battle unless you don't got any foliage

[dusky surge]

it... really isnt

[main helm]

nah nah, i loved to play teno there since i felt like a cornered boio the entire time

[dusky surge]

i've played that battle, it's fun for the pachies, it is NOT fun for the tenos

stunlock simulator not too appealing to me

[main helm]

Guess i'm a masochist, if they get the body fracture or leg fracture off then you just play it out using the long game and dodge within foliage while only doing claw swipes.

[dusky surge]

hiding in a bush and spamming claw swipes doesn't really sound like a thrilling battle

it sounds more like doing everything you can to avoid dying to something less than a third of your size

[main helm]

ah well fair enough, but the start of the battle without a fracture is nice, you get to yeet em using a tail slam

but then you gotta also be mindful enough to figure out if it's a good pachy or not, cause if it is then instead for charging head on, it's gonna bait out the slam attack and then bonk you

and i guess it was only fine cause unless you encountered 3 carnos in the open then you didn't have much to die to as a brawler teno

[golden coral]

@serene valleyThe omni is an attrition bleeder, it's not meant to do high damage/bleed quickly, but to bleed the target out over multiple pounces and time. And the bleed is already quite lethal on omni, it always have been for that matter. And bucking has been nerfed, so there's already a potential risk it's too weak again like it used to be, but that remains to be seen I guess. As for carno, omnis are quite capable vs it right now because of how overall lacking the carno is, and cera is doing quite well overall, by far the better playable between those two. In neither case is there a need for a "swarm" by any means, to take on a carno. Also, I don't believe the carno has had it's bleed handling changed from back then, it's still terrible, and now the charge has a stamina cost on activation, so carno runs out of stamina even faster. All in all, carno seems to be the one playable in the test right now that needs a buff or two if anything, compared to all the others.

[halcyon elk]

@fleet torrent I mean this could be a problem. Especially with cera who on a charge headshot deals 800 damage normally.

[royal stratus]

that's so OP...luckily you can hear it coming for dinos faster than carno at least, RIP the smaller/slower ones

[fleet torrent]

That's the fault of the developers. They promised one thing, they brought another. They showed the cerato as something that can intimidate the carnotaur, which in the ST never happened. They showed the cerato as a defensive animal and not offensive, which also did not happen. Another thing, it has nothing to do with the damage that the cerato does with my feedback, I spoke specifically about stego, I gave an opinion to encourage hunting and attacks towards its head, because in some situations it seems that the damage that they receive is little and nothing, it is not noticeable.

[frail bobcat]

@fleet torrent you should not assume the playstyle of people just because they disliked your idea. That just makes you look like a prick and not like a person who can take critism and accept when people dont like their idea.

[fleet torrent]

What a coincidence that whenever I see a suggestion about modifying something about the game mode "Herbivore" there are many negative votes.

[halcyon elk]

Well as for the dev thing you're half right.

[slim dragon]

You do understand ceratos and stegos will eventually meet, right ? And that a cera 1v1ing a stego is a bad thing ?

[fleet torrent]

Also everytime i do a sugg about hervibore playstyle theres the same person downvoting

[fleet torrent]

You're scared of your stego getting killed or what? Stego it's so strong and it's boring like how it is, nothing wants to fight you and you dont have a decent opponent actually

[slim dragon]

And you're scared of stegos, to react like this ?
I never played stego, but it doesn't take much thinking to understand what the basics of balance are.

[fleet torrent]

How a cera 1v1ing a stego will be a bad thing? You just need to be patience (as steg) and you could kill them easily, it's not that difficult for the steg side.

[halcyon elk]

Having something that weighs 1,300 kgs should not be winning against something thats 7,000kgs alone.

[fleet torrent]

You don't seem that you never played stego buddy, everytime i try to do a sugg to something related to hervibore you seem the first to come to downvote, you're like, you don't want to get the hervi playstyle touched in any way..

[slim dragon]

Hmmm, I wonder how can posibly a fast-growing, 1.3 ton animal killing easily a 6-ton animal which is slower be a bad thing

[placid reef]

Lets not forget Stego is the beggining of the apex category, anything 2 tiers under it or more should not even have a thought of killing it with the exception of Omni bc Omni scales on numbers

[slim dragon]

Maybe it's just that your feedbacks are all bad, who knows

[fleet torrent]

How cera wins against stego in 1V1 ?

[halcyon elk]

Continously going for and biting the head trying to get the stego to vomit if it vomits it can be gg cuz vomit locking exists

[fleet torrent]

As how I said, "you're like you don't want to get the hervi playstyle touched in any way".. It's easy to detect ur hervi fanatism, be real not just a fanatic

[slim dragon]

hmm hmm

[frail bobcat]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/855527844670865438/1103711948803158067/EzhEst.gif

this is gonna be fun to watch

[fleet torrent]

It does, but how a cera wins a stego in 1V1, its not possible you can deal good amount of damage swinging at it

[halcyon elk]

@fleet torrent as much I want to nerf Stegosaurus into the ground and delete them from the video game. I am trying to see reason.

[slim dragon]

Upping stego's damage taken on headshots even more (stego already takes more damage on anything else on headshots) would make that possible considering how much damage cera currently does

[halcyon elk]

For instance what would you bump up the multiplier on stegos head to?@fleet torrent

[dusky surge]

its already ridiculously high lol

[placid reef]

Its the only one that doubles damage lmao

[dusky surge]

do we just want a bite to the head to kill stego at this point

[placid reef]

Realism!

[fleet torrent]

Bro you dont have arguments to reply to me, I could suggest bad in YOUR opinion, but you seem to be a hervi fan and you want it easy for you.
Look, i play both sides and i like both, and as how I play both I sometimes feel that one side it's above the other. And the most viable in my opinion is to reach something fair for both. I'm not telling you to MATCH STEGO to a CERAT, but I mentioned something totally different from matching or making stego a complete useless garbage, I mentioned a way to make it more interesting to hunt, to encourage carnis to hunt it.

[slim dragon]

It's useless to argue since you already made up your mind

[fleet torrent]

What? I never said that, look the message again

[dusky surge]

i played stego in the stress test recently, only to be reminded why i dont play stego and i killed it once i reached adulthood

that being said, don't make stego this easy to kill

[halcyon elk]

I was doing something known as hyperbole

[dusky surge]

not allowed

[fleet torrent]

To something real, look how it head is, how you think it should be? Weaker, stronger?

[dusky surge]

it is weaker

[slim dragon]

If you want pure realism, irl stego's head was pretty armored so...

[fleet torrent]

You dont have args, i said. You may be herv main, and you want it easy for you to enjoy the game.
We all want to enjoy it, but everybody deserve that, not just you and your fanatism to be a hervi and going above everything

[dusky surge]

stego head takes the most damage out of anything in the game

[halcyon elk]

In my opinion stego having a ×2 multiplier is fine as is.

[dusky surge]

i love the "ur a herbi main, ur wrong" mindset

[frail bobcat]

*herbi

[placid reef]

And looking at the roster, might be the only thing to even have this

[fleet torrent]

I said "ur wrong" ?, read the message 2 times and understand it, then reply. Thanks

[dusky surge]

it is the only animal to have a 2x multiplier

[halcyon elk]

(Due note that I've only played stego once. Maybe twice in the past months)

[dusky surge]

its called hyperbole big guy

[fleet torrent]

Read the messages, understand, then reply

[dusky surge]

alright

[placid reef]

I mean the WHOLE roster, every dino slated, none, maybe Kentro ok, stand out as needing or having a 2x hs scalar

[dusky surge]

after reading your message, i have updated my own

i love the "you are herbi main, you are biased and wrong, i win" mindset

you are using the "herbi main" argument against someone while not knowing what animals they actually play

[halcyon elk]

Ok let me explain:

Increasing the damage of stegosaurus head would cause it to become vulnerable to ceratosaurus. And stego already has a bad match up to cera if it lands headshot

[frail bobcat]

trust me, they are hacker man and know the exact playtime of all playables

[placid reef]

Using herbi main, on the guy with #EatGrassAndDie, ah yes

[dusky surge]

god forbid rex gets added

[slim dragon]

Typical carnivore fanatic behavior

[frail bobcat]

Lmao

[dusky surge]

and stego just dies instantly

[placid reef]

Avg Islecord moment

[fleet torrent]

Alright. Got it.
Then the solution is make cera the defensive it was promised, not the aggressive it is. Back it damage to 150 or 125

[halcyon elk]

Agreed. Perhaps give it more bacteria and maybe a stagger resist

[neon willow]

Cerato does 200 normal bite. It's charge bite I hear does 400 (2x multiplier). Stego's head multiplier is 2x (higher than all other playables). So, a cerato landing a charge bite headshot does 800 damage. Stego has 6,000 HP. Cerato can kill stego in 8 hits. For reference, deino can kill stego in 6 hits, and it's an 8T monster who realistically struggles to avoid the tail swing if the fight is on land. Cerato is a good deal more agile

[unborn iris]

Teno can do the same thing. And it hasn't really been that big of an issue. It's so easy for stego to use terrain and/or land tail or body shots on them trying to come in and deter continued attacks.

[proud anchor]

What is Carno biteforce currently?

[frail bobcat]

175

[proud anchor]

Woah, I thought Carno was meant to have an insanely high biteforce. Now Cera just comes along like "Let's go!!!!"

[timber holly]

@fleet torrent
I only voted for no because of your meaningless attitude or edit. Thank you for making it so easy for me.

@serene valley
Isn't it better to post your suggestions individually? This makes the voting even better and more accurate

[fleet torrent]

?who asked

[timber holly]

#balance-feedback message

[golden coral]

@fleet torrentIf you increase the head multiplier much more, deinos will just shred stegos in a 1v1, and the others will also just get an easier time, including tenos and ceras and carnos, which should not be fighting a stego in the first place really. This is not exactly ideal from what I can tell.

[fleet torrent]

At least for this roster?

[golden coral]

Not sure how you mean there? But overall, I think it's fine, or at least that if we do change stego like that, deino would need some change on lower bite force or so to adjust for the matchup between those two at the least. And considering cera and teno can already take out stego on headshots, I'm not sure they need to be able to do it easier as it stands. Though I guess if nerf to stego comes with one to deino as well, at least it'd make deinos slighty less able to just grab and bite to death so there is that, might make deino a touch more vunerable as well.

[placid reef]

Also it might reach the point of rex 2 shoting stego in the head

[frail bobcat]

<@&933486433342222376> FREE NITRO, IT REALLY REAL, TOTALLY. in the feedback channels

[serene valley]

There is a limit of 500 letters, it did not fit, So do 2 posts

[timber holly]

oh, k

[halcyon elk]

Maybe just...not have the chuff buff?

[distant torrent]

if cera gets any sort of buffs meta enough for it to be recommended that you carry corpses around then they better be nerfing the hell out of its stam and speed so it can’t use it to hunt

[halcyon elk]

@proud anchor To be honest I don't think the idea is a good one in general buffing cera anymore than right now

Is kinda a bad idea

[proud anchor]

Hypno suggested the current bite buff is temporary and eluded to other mechanics they're looking at.

The guess is chuffing, which that discussion has it's own concerns.

I also understand Islecord isn't ready for that conversation.

[halcyon elk]

Uh what?

[halcyon elk]

Now to be honest I wouldn't mind if cera had a more defense oriented playstyle on a corpse

[proud anchor]

What else would they be 'working on for cera'?

Exactly, if it's biteforc is what it is now because it was defending, 100%

That's where the exploit concerns come in.

[halcyon elk]

I more meant increase stun resist

[proud anchor]

I mean... I wouldn't disagree, but I would also agree with a little more damage resist with a lower biteforce.

[halcyon elk]

I honestly liked how cera was as is. Just needed slightly more stun resist. Then I learned a diet does that..

[proud anchor]

Oh that's cool.

We'll wait and see. They're likely going to be tooling with something. My guess is Hypno was forshadowing this next patch that has been delayed a little, and it makes me ponder why exactly.

[dusky surge]

i would literally rather a damage increase to a stun resist

also there's no diet that provides stun resist

[halcyon elk]

The blunt resist?

[dusky surge]

That's fracture resistance

Fractures are given via blunt damage

[halcyon elk]

I AM DUM

[dusky surge]

Stun resist doesn't exist, and hopefully never will

[halcyon elk]

Fair.

[dusky surge]

Making it that an animal can ignore its weight leads to all kinds of weird and silly matchup situations

[proud anchor]

Ah, Blunt Damage, still that's good info in it's own.

Got any ideas how you'd work with a chuffing buff? Let's not focus on the buff itself, because I'm sure that's the easy part, but what about people's concerns with how it might be exploited, depending on how it's implimented?
This is more of a speculative question, I understand.

[dusky surge]

if i were to do a chuffing buff, i'd have it generate bacteria or increase bacteria application

[halcyon elk]

Thats...a good idea

[proud anchor]

I did suggest not to focus on the buff itself, but the means of application, but okay.

[halcyon elk]

The mean of application would be its chuffing allows it to build up its septic bite

[proud anchor]

Chuffing around what...? A compy corpse?

Cool I'll just carry one around with me.

[halcyon elk]

Not able to be grabbed corpses. Or corpses on the diet

[proud anchor]

Okay, okay. I'll play ball ~ why would you not be able to chuff around your own diet kill?

[normal creek]

that's so easy to abuse

[normal creek]

then why even add the feature?

[halcyon elk]

Unlike increased melee its increased septic bite production

[proud anchor]

Facts tho... Chuff and fill, use it up, fill, repeat.

[halcyon elk]

That's what I'm saying we don't really need it

[proud anchor]

We don't really have it so make it useless?

[normal creek]

ohhhhh but you can still exploit it so that adds nothing

[proud anchor]

I don't understand, it's meant to be a defense for it's food, or an attack point for stealing someone else's food.

Diet should quite literally not matter in this case, only size.

It just seems like an arbitrary limitation with zero reason which is also very difficult to explain to the player.

[halcyon elk]

Fair. But tbh I don't really want to discuss this as idk if this gonna happen. it may tho I dunno

[proud anchor]

It may, and it will need to be balanced.

[normal creek]

i promise you they will not add it the way you described it

[proud anchor]

If you don't want to discuss it, I suggest removing your downvote?

It's silly to downvote something because you don't have it in your hands.

[halcyon elk]

It's more rather I dislike the concept of a buff on chuffing

[proud anchor]

I mean, I guess that's fair. Shut down conversation on the dino's advertised intent itself. That's balance.

As much as I hate the carno, I would upvote positive effects it's balance would have on the game, not just downvote out of spite, but... I dunno ~ I guess that's the way this project works.

[halcyon elk]

I'm not downvoting out of spite. I just simply don't like the concept of having a buff on a corpse as it can be easily exploitable

[proud anchor]

For instance, the speed increase is good paired with the acceleration nerf.
If the Cera keeps the 200 biteforce (It won't) the Carno would be in a bad spot, because it's mobility has been so heavily nerfed.
Meaningful suggestions on how to balance these things, so the Cera can't consistantly exploit the Carno's every weakness due to it's strong bite would be welcome.
Such as only giving it such a strong bite when defending it's kill.

That's the point... we need to come to the conclusion on how it should work as a community.
If you don't think it's going to be added, or just don't like it ~ the point is that isn't going to stop it's implimentation at some crossroad.

Shutting down that conversation provides little to the purpose of this channel, imo.

"I don't like it."
K.

How would you change it to not be excluded from the game, but balanced fairly?

Not the buff itself. The proposed exploitability.

[halcyon elk]

I see. Then in that case I could say that it's when it's specifically a Carnivore near it's size or larger

[proud anchor]

Right, in my original post in #balance-feedback I suggested exactly that.

The problem;
Juvi dinos can't pick up smaller dinos that adults can. This can be exploited if an adult can carry a body a juvi cannot pick up.

My proposal was to only allow for Adults to buff juvis, due to that very strange and highly exploitable middleground.

[placid reef]

What would you say of also biting Cera during chuffing inflicts bacteria, just a thought

[proud anchor]

Removes the skill of the ability.

[placid reef]

Fair

[proud anchor]

The charged bite itself's animation is too long imo.

That itself should be shorted by a hair.

Alt bite needs some serious work, too. It's end lag is atrocious.

[halcyon elk]

Perhaps a combination of the size of the corpse and the Carnivore near its size or larger

[proud anchor]

That makes it a little more complicated for the player to understand. From a gameplay perspective it's not exactly straightforward. I've though of this myself, and the only thing I could think of was a visable buff over your stamnia or water that expresses the buff is active, so you can check to see if the body meets the critera of allowing for a buff.

Though I don't want to suggest more UI clutter.

[halcyon elk]

Fair. Or it could he a visual of a deep chuff like a dry heave

[proud anchor]

Currently my quick-and-dirty approach is, Juvis can't get the buff unless the adult buffs the pack.
This way the immersion of "Learning by example" is in-tact, and the juvi isn't entirely without the ability.

[halcyon elk]

It makes sense. But another problem Is cera is notably solitary

[proud anchor]

If the team could pull together an animation so quickly, then maybe, but I'm not sure that will go over so well so close to release. That'd be a hotpatch, or something like U7

[proud anchor]

Right, which makes the pack vs solo element of the dino a problem, and the bodies are really the issue here.
Another idea is as follows;
If a body is picked up it is no longer elgiable for a buff.
Dragging is fine, but picking it up makes it lose it's buff flag.

That would be much more complicated to code in, for the devs though...

[halcyon elk]

Which means bugs galore

[proud anchor]

Which is why the cheapest method is taking it away from the juvis and making the adult the bard, essencailly.

I just want to leave zero room for exploitation, is all.

We can fix it down the line, but for now it's just one of those unfortunate things.

Anyway, we don't have it in our hands. Maybe the devs have a better idea that wasn't even scratched here.

[halcyon elk]

True.

[proud anchor]

We're waiting for the mechanic, this is just a suggestion.

[coral wind]

@fleet torrent I’m confused your grammar is terrible so it’s hard to make out your post but your saying to reduce damage on the body and increase it on the head which just makes it anky but with bleed
Why not just leave stego alone? To hunt a stego you need to be skilled so why would you make it harder for skilled players to kill a stego? And what is main character supposed to mean I haven’t seen a single person call out your post in such a way.

[placid reef]

Was the idea of basing it on body size mentioned already? For ex bodies under a certain limit wont apply the buff to more than the closest Cera (so for ex if a Cera picks up smth, only it gets the buff technically)

The larger the body the more ceras get buffed, with adults having priority over juvis

[proud anchor]

Yeah, that was the initial post, and a lot of what the community was saying after Hypno's post.

[placid reef]

Aha, I see

[proud anchor]

Oh, you're talking about scaling. I didn't put that in because of the exploit concerns, but it does have a place in the discussion overall.

My personal focus is how that scaling can be very mobile, for example.

Say the cera kills a sub gali that the juvis can drag. Well, you have a mobile buff if the adult moves it with ease.

[placid reef]

ye but thats why I thought small bodies, so anything that an be picked up by it (adults btw), only buffs the one that carries it (so it does nothing essentially) or the closest Cera

[proud anchor]

Right, but is that an easy thing to slap together so soon before release is the issue.

[placid reef]

We could also talk on range, small bodies have like no range

[proud anchor]

At the moment, I'm thinking of the least costly terms for the devs to work on, once it's greenlit into live we can discuss the more long-term solutions ~ is where my head is.

[placid reef]

Oh absolutely not, maybe get the foundation or idea in but not all the details

[proud anchor]

Right, right.

[placid reef]

Just what would likely be the best long term solution

[obtuse ocean]

Why buff juvis? Why not only adults?

[proud anchor]

I'm just trying to not overcomplicate the nows and thens at the moment is all.

[placid reef]

Adults have priority (in my version at least)

[proud anchor]

That was the idea for a short-term solution, @obtuse ocean

[obtuse ocean]

Still dont get it,why even mix in juvis. You either adult or not

[proud anchor]

I'm suggesting to make the ability cross the species as a whole while pertaining the ability to access it.

[placid reef]

But I have to say I liked your idea of young learning from the adults/ experience, firstly bc its a concept I want to see used more often in The Isle lmao, and also thought on how to add that to my idea lol

[proud anchor]

Because it'd be like the Utah not having pounce as a baby, for example. Having something only applicable to the adult kinda sucks...
HOWEVER... That being said.... The troodon does exactly this with it's venom.

[proud anchor]

Right, more dynamic immersion and possibly more 'natural' feel to the animals.

[placid reef]

Give juvi utah the ability to dig and climb (when those get added that is) imo

[proud anchor]

Yeah they've spoken about that before. That'll be a fun update cycle.

[obtuse ocean]

No,its awesome. Why should you even get a buff by just beeing close to an adult? You get it for free and you rely on others

[placid reef]

I still want caves to be a thing in the game, from small ones meant for juvies and small hunters to pretty large ones, able to fit even Allos, also including overhangs like in Dilos concept art

[proud anchor]

Because you're vulnerable, and the buff would be minimal scaling anyway ~ as well as limited to the area, so I don't see the harm in defense boosting with an adult around. Surely you didn't kill it yourself, but maybe you were part of the pack that did. You should be able to defend like the others. Limiting gameplay is no answer.

[placid reef]

This is what I mean by overhang

[proud anchor]

Right, the map will get better with UE5's tools for sure.

[obtuse ocean]

Its not limiting,your supose to be vulnerable as juvi. You already got food and protection for free. And you want a buff aswell.

[proud anchor]

Its basically a bluff at that point anyway.

[proud anchor]

I mean, it's a species trait. It deserves to take advantage of it's own utility, yes.

Taking it away with out good reason is lame.

"You're supposed to be vulnerable" oh.. Well then let's just take away Carno's charge for Juvis then.

[obtuse ocean]

Yea when your grown,then you earn it. Not by just beeing around someone. I wouldt mind if you had it as juvi, but you getting it for free because your close to someone and i dont cus im alone i dont like

[proud anchor]

Okay, then we take away galli speed boost for no reason then, right?

[obtuse ocean]

Im not sure how the boost work, u get it as juvi?

[placid reef]

Yes

Any gali broadcasting near you grants the boost

[proud anchor]

Yes, and it's passed on, so the ability for the devs to do this would be possible quickly for Cera if needed.

[placid reef]

Intended so the juvis can keep up with the herd, also Galli juvi is the only juvi in the game that has the same speed as the adults

[proud anchor]

The point I'm making is it should be limited to who is in your pack ~ as well. Theres a max of 4 in a pack so if there were 8 Ceras and only one adult, only 3 would gain the buff, as well as the Adult.

It would also be scaled way down to their size.

But the purpose is to prevent exploiting while also not taking it away entirely.

[obtuse ocean]

What exploits can be made? If only adults get it

[proud anchor]

None, but it needless removes the kit from juvis.

There should be some way to keep it included without allowing for it to be exploitative.

I'm just propsosing harsh limitations.

Because it is a limitation.

You're solo, you'd benifit from an adult, for example. You'd lose it entirely. Doesn't that seem unfair?

[obtuse ocean]

Because galli gets it dont mean cera deserves it

[placid reef]

We could also make chuffing something only available after a certain %, 40-50% sounds bout right to me

[proud anchor]

Gali solo doesn't get the speed boost.

Same philospophy.

[obtuse ocean]

Yea im talking about the species, not all needs to rely on others

And get buffs by beeing close to someone

[proud anchor]

I'm just suggesting that it can rely on others, if you insist it doesn't need to rely on others, you need a way to allow for juvis to get the buff on their own without those with an adult who can carry a body which you cannot, a means of exploitation.

This is under the assumption that the buff would be weight based, btw.

So you can't just chuff any old corpse, it has to be worth chuffing.

Otherwise you could just chuff a scrap of meat, and that's just silly.

[obtuse ocean]

I still dont get why juvis should have it

[proud anchor]

Also, it's not giving them a buff for being close to the adult, it's giving them a buff for being close to a body that the adult is chuffing. When you leave a radius I would hope you lose that buff.

[proud anchor]

Because juvis should have fun too, I guess?

[obtuse ocean]

Your in survival mode,trying to grow. Not killing unless its other juvis

Im having alot of fun growing

Cus its hard

[proud anchor]

I would prefer Juvis should be able to chuff bodes of their kills, personally. However there are some flaws in gameplay logic that suggest this may be an issue.

[proud anchor]

Right, and if a Juvi Carno is trying to steal your food, wouldn't you like a buff?
Or if you're around a kill, wouldn't you like to defend it for your pack if you're not full grown? That boost could help a tiny bit, but it's mostly placebo because scaling.

[obtuse ocean]

I just dont get why every species should get buffs in packs, i can get galli and some pack hunters

[proud anchor]

I'm just trying to include everyone in the dance of dinosaurs here.

I dunno, ask the devs that one.

[obtuse ocean]

I like solo, i dont get it?

[placid reef]

I think this could be done with 2 ways, fresh spawns can chuff but natural born have to reach sub stage (aka learning it from the adults)

[proud anchor]

I mean, that's a personal decision. I think you should be able to benifit from your specie's abilities, personally. I'm just offering suggestions to make it so those in groups can't make it overpowered.

[placid reef]

Its not every dino, this is literally the only other one talked about, no one went to argue for Pachy herd buffs etc

[obtuse ocean]

Yea i agree on that, but i feel cera is more of solitary playstyle compared to galli etc

[proud anchor]

That would have to tie into much more complicated nesting mechanics or something. I don't know if there's anything passed down other than skins at the moment, but maybe in U7, since traits were supposed to be passed with the elder system, maybe nesting could also cover that nuance as well with a more deep mechanic there.

[proud anchor]

Virtually all Cera content I've seen on youtube is 4x Cera vs 4x Cera.

[placid reef]

But like every solitary animal, they have to get toghether to mate, so Cera would be more solitary untill it gets a mate and babies, takes care of them and when they reach adult they get left behind, taking this from a more irl perspective

[obtuse ocean]

Lol yes so will everyone be when they release something new, we will get a large ecosystem later

[proud anchor]

People just tend to play solo, ya know?

[obtuse ocean]

I dont need to go mate? I choose that. Irl juvis are complety useless and they dont get a buff: P

[obtuse ocean]

Yea they do,you should try walk outside hotspots

[proud anchor]

Couldn't find anyone. Lol.

[obtuse ocean]

Then you just answered your question lol

[proud anchor]

Anyway "I play solo" isn't really a reason to remove a whole species ability.

[obtuse ocean]

Ofcourse it is,i spawn in solo. Getting food and protection from others is insanly good. And you want buffs on top of that? What about the poor guy sho survive solo with skills?

[proud anchor]

Gitgud?

[obtuse ocean]

Yea your good cus your close to someone? You didnt earn it

[proud anchor]

Good for utilizing the entire kit available. It is what it is.
Sorry you feel that everyone should suffer for you.

[obtuse ocean]

You can use your whole kit when your grown? Thats what you are working towards while growing, and it should be hard

[proud anchor]

Playing solo is hard.

You get exactly what you want.

A horribly difficult experience. There ya go.

[obtuse ocean]

It is,and that is understandable. Beeing more is better, but getting free stuff nah

[placid reef]

And yet that would never be possible for Galli solo, bc it needs others

[proud anchor]

https://tenor.com/view/the-chosen-jesus-point-look-up-smiling-gif-18032168

[obtuse ocean]

Yea as we said, some should get it. Not all.

[placid reef]

And isnt that what we said? Cera and Gali, not every other dino

[proud anchor]

Post how the juvi shouldn't get chuff buffs in #balance-feedback and we'll see if it's an agreeable sentiment for the community.

[obtuse ocean]

Yes,i said i agreed on that: P

[proud anchor]

They downvoted me to hell for even suggesting the adult was able to buff. I'm excited to see how your idea fares. Lol.

[obtuse ocean]

Go play pot,buffs all over the place. And yea balance is bad

[proud anchor]

Yep... Didn't think so.

[obtuse ocean]

I mean i get your point,its not horrible idea. But i dont think you see why its bad

[proud anchor]

I know why it's bad, but it'll be worse if they don't do something about it and allow for Juvis to have the buff regardless.

[placid reef]

Wait, are you against or not for cera chuff lol

[proud anchor]

It's a temp fix, dirty, fast ~ something that can prevent a catastrophe, but hey, if they wanna ship the game with exploits (if they do add chuffing) that's on Dondi, he's the one balancing stuff now.

[obtuse ocean]

If your grown you get it,but buffings juvis etc i dont like.

Like i would hate if the more ceras you where the more bacteria you would apply etc

[slim dragon]

<@&933486433342222376>

On other channels as well

[wraith relic]

Carnos a fricking ambush sprinter of coarse it needs good acceleration

[burnt bough]

Is there a channel or something to see the new builds for the stress test

[dusky surge]

no it aint lol

or at least it absolutley shouldnt be

[wraith relic]

Well, I still think the bad acceleration makes it unfun

And since the charge is so much better than sprinting they always just spam charge

[dusky surge]

i think the acceleration makes it more reliant on momentum, which i think is cooler

[wraith relic]

It can have worse acceleration then the others but not to its current extent

, it should just have tiny bit worse acceleration than most other creatures

[elder steppe]

Yeah ive seen the acceleration as well and its way to low for an ambush hunter like carno in game. Take example of other ambush hunters like lions or cheetahs. They have explosive movement but they can only keep it up for a short time. Probably shouldnt give it that same explosive movement because of game balance, but the acceleration should definitely be a bit higher

If carno was made for pursuit in game i wouldnt mind the low acceleration, but its got higher stam drain then a lot of the playables right now

[dusky surge]

i think carno needs a lower stam drain, personally, as well as a lower charge damage and better running turn radius

[elder steppe]

Id be fine with that if it had lower stam drain👍

[wraith relic]

Eh I prefer the quicker to accelerate but faster stam drain version

[dusky surge]

i dont, because it makes carno an ambush predator

and its really poorly designed for that

a big animal, that thrives in the open plains, that relies entirely on an attack type that requires cover

[wraith relic]

It’ll be better when there’s more long grass

[dusky surge]

how long do you want this grass

like, at what point does it reach fundamentally ridiculous levels

a carno is a tall animal

you would need tree-sized grass to appropriately hide it

[wraith relic]

I mean it’s a cheetah, it’s fast enough for it to chase you down for a small area, it’s just supposed to get close so it can charge before you have time to react then you get stunned and fight it

Most ambush predators ambush because they’re not fast enough, but carno is at a speed where its approach is the ambush

[dusky surge]

which is another reason why it shouldn't be an ambush hunter

also, it's not a cheetah

the most a cheetah shares with a carno is being fast and eating meat

cheetahs are camouflaged, low to the ground, small and frail

carnotaurus (literally translated to carnivorous bull) is tall, loud, heavy and no joke

[thin mantle]

Cheetahs are also still pursuit predators

By every comparison it doesn't fit an ambush playstyle prodominantly

[wraith relic]

Still the acceleration makes carno unfun

I still think it should have better acceleration than it does right now and have a slower turn rate on the charge

[dusky surge]

so just make it an ambush hunter

[tall bronze]

I'd like for acceleration to be more along the lines of "you start running, but take some time to reach top speed" instead of "it takes 30 years to START running, THEN you run."

Because the latter just feels really clunky.

[wraith relic]

Maybe if it worked like that it’d be better as long it’s not that long

But the current acceleration is bad that’s for sure, I’m saying accel should go back to the old one but it should only be a tiny bit worse than others

[dusky surge]

@compact bolt increasing cera's weight kinda just defeats the point tho, it's supposed to be a smaller size

@livid spindle the ENTIRE point of cera has been advertised as specifically a corpse bully scavenger that's good at finding corpses, defending corpses and contesting corpses, of course it's primary mechanic will be built around corpses

[livid spindle]

But is it scientific to get defensive buff near the body? Can it compete with allo or even rex for bodies in the future?

[dusky surge]

there's nothing scientific about galli calling to boost its friends, or troodon needing to time its venom to advance to the next stage, or carno charging, or pachy ramming, the game evidently takes some level of non-realistic approaches

[livid spindle]

Troodon's doesn't even have anything to do with venom. From 6.5, everything seems to be magical.

[dusky surge]

okay

these are genetically altered super-dinosaurs in current day made by a pharmaceutical company that can create dinosaurs, make said dinosaurs send out EMPs, create completely new animals entirely, and more, but we're concerned cera becomes bolstered near bodies

let's look to the future. Herrera can climb, dilo causes hallucinations, monolophosaurus quite literally uses snot as a hunting technique, magy tastes bad, spino is a hippo-walking super-predator, eyeless/tribals exist, strains exist, so on

the level of sci-fi fantasy has been well and truly established

[livid spindle]

How do those compare with standing next to a corpse and making your skin thicker?

[dusky surge]

how is anything i just said remotely more realistic

[livid spindle]

Then, for the sake of gameplay, the game should also unlock the viewing angle when eating.

[dusky surge]

i dont see how that's related

[golden coral]

While you could make a realism argument there, the most likely reason we have the camera lock is because "you should be vunerable while eating"

Not because it's realistic, or not, but simply because someone wants there to be a camera lock

[dusky surge]

also, the camera lock in itself is unrealistic, as realistically your animal should have a wider range of vision

[livid spindle]

In some places, they interpret it as being true, and in some places, they interpret it as being playful, which is very strange.

[dusky surge]

its called staying faithful to the dinosaur while making exceptions for the sake of gameplay and balance

[livid spindle]

But as a result, smaller animals are more nervous, while larger animals don't need to worry too much.

[dusky surge]

what?

what smaller animals are particularly nervous?

[livid spindle]

Maybe it's a horror survival game, but it seems that the small dinosaurs are chosen just for the sake of terror.

[dusky surge]

again, what?

what small animal is like this

[livid spindle]

Small animals are always more nervous when they eat.

[dusky surge]

every animal is nervous

being attacked by a pack of omnis as a carno is also scary

partially because carno is so weak to omni

unfortunately

[livid spindle]

If omni is attacked while eating, he will probably die immediately, and carno has more room.

In addition, some animals have their own animations of occasionally looking around while eating.

I hope that for these animals, it is not necessary to lock the perspective.

[dusky surge]

these animals also need far less food to sustain themselves

And can get to places their larger predators cannot

if you eat a teno in the middle of the plains without bothering to look around for what killed that teno, no surprise, you die

[livid spindle]

What I have been worried about before is that because smaller animals are worried about being robbed by bigger animals and the smallest animals are worried about being robbed by all animals, they sometimes get hungrier.

[dusky surge]

Smaller animals can eat different foods

While a compy provides nothing for an omni, a troodon can gain nutrients and sufficient food from a single compy

a single boar can sustain an entire troodon pack

[livid spindle]

make sense

But now it seems that there are not enough AI animals on the land, and the bigger carnivores are always hungry, let alone nesting.

I saw in the live broadcast that cera can only get very little food from AI animals, and it may be difficult for it to survive by eating AI. I think it should be the most basic to survive by eating AI.

I wonder if there is any improvement in the new version.

[dusky surge]

cera is meant to be stealing corpses, not surviving on AI

[livid spindle]

All animals should be able to survive on AI.

[dusky surge]

i hope future animals of larger sizes cannot rely on AI for easy sustanence

[dusky surge]

i heavily disagree

a rex should have to engage for that level of power

[livid spindle]

I think all animals need AI to meet the most basic survival requirements.

So why do herbivores need not worry about being hungry at all and are stronger, while carnivores are weaker in strength, but should worry about being hungry?

[dusky surge]

because herbivores don't get to pick their fights and are often forced on the defensive, whereas carnivores should not expect to kill herbis with ease

a herbivore not being able to fight off a carnivore makes it useless

[livid spindle]

Do you think it's appropriate if carnivores can't live on AI and it's hard to beat herbivores?

[dusky surge]

yes, if the carnivore is big and can be expected to be able to hunt/steal other corpses

do you think its appropriate to have herbivores be nothing more than playable food?

[livid spindle]

So how can it survive when there are few servers or even players in this area?

[dusky surge]

you don't pick a large carnivore on a small server

cerato can survive on AI on low population, just dont expect a good diet

[livid spindle]

I still think all animals should be able to survive on AI.

[dusky surge]

then what's the point of hunting?

[livid spindle]

Otherwise, you are likely to die just because of bad luck.

[dusky surge]

why bother the risk of death to another player

if AI is the easier and safer option to grow on

[livid spindle]

AI is not only wild boar, but also carno and stego.

[dusky surge]

<@&933486433342222376> this guy has lessons

[gleaming karma]

Ban him

[livid spindle]

I think AI should at least provide protection for the survival of carnivores. Eating AI may not make you live well, but at least it will keep you alive. Hunting will give you a good diet and a chance to become an elder in the future. I think it is more reasonable. If this game is only played by players vs. players, then your death is often not that you play badly, but that others play better than you.

[dusky surge]

which i heavily disagree with, AI dinos are terrible

[livid spindle]

Herbivores are more powerful than carnivores, so maybe they should provide more food, or it means more nutrition for all carnivores, otherwise the best prey for carnivores is still carnivores. Herbivores are stronger, and they will get more rewards for hunting.

Didn't they say they were going to add dinosaur AI? There was a tenoAI OmniAI CarnoAI before, but it was later deleted and will return in the future.

[dusky surge]

yea, and i heavily dislike dino AI

[slim dragon]

And that's why you're not QA anymore :P

[frail bobcat]

So, how is stresstest balance rn?

[dusky surge]

pretty good besides carno being bad

[slim dragon]

Dino AI should be made in a way that actually compliments gameplay
Right now it is very lackluster

[dusky surge]

also i think troo/dryo need better NV

[frail bobcat]

The usual

[slim dragon]

First and foremost, no dino should be both playable and AI at the same time in official servers

[dusky surge]

cera is less egrigious

[livid spindle]

Many animals have too good NV, and troo seems to have no advantage.

[compact bolt]

the isle tenotosaurus almost twice as heavy as the real tenontosaurus, a 1.5t or 1.6t ceratosaurus is acceptable, just the max size of real ceratosaurus

[frail bobcat]

But it would be unbalanced

[compact bolt]

cerato can't catch anything if they don't want to fight with it except stego, and 1.3t or 1.6t is no differences for stego

[slim dragon]

That's why cerato is a scavenger

It's supposed to be strong, but not to the point of being a carnivore stego that you just ignore if you want to stay alive

[dusky surge]

thats the point of being a scavenger, and yes it can

its insane stamina and quite decent speed permit it to run down carnos and tenos pretty effectively

its kind of a problem

even omnis are at risk unless they find some way to climb out of sight

[compact bolt]

yep, I don't think it's a big deal to be the slowest carni on land, and also not unbalance to give it 1.5-1.6t weight.

[dusky surge]

giving it 1.5 to 1.6 tons defeats the point of the animal tho

its supposed to be small

[compact bolt]

it just makes it more easier to grab carno’s body

[keen plover]

No.

[dusky surge]

why does it need that?

[keen plover]

Carno has the edge in the plains, as it should

[compact bolt]

to instead of the defense buff near the body, which is too magical

[slim dragon]

If you think there is no way to have an animal to be viable despite being smaller than its competitors, you must think the future of the game balance is grim

[keen plover]

It's a game

[dusky surge]

its quite literally a game

with an animal named "omniraptor"

that is a 450kg pouncing animal designed after Jurassic Park's velo

created by a medicinal company

[compact bolt]

yep, but the game still acting realism

[slim dragon]

But tbh, I don't like the idea of chuffing increasing its defense either
If it has to give a buff, it should be something else

[dusky surge]

troodon, dilo, herrera, spino, magy, strains (all of them), tribals, eyeless, carno charging, pachy ramming

[slim dragon]

Not being a question of realism there, it doesn't really makes sense
But I still don't think increasing cera's weight is a good idea

[dusky surge]

i can go on

[keen plover]

Spino run animation with air time

but game

[compact bolt]

it can be an scienrific specie，but let the mechanism working as ark is really not a good idea

[dusky surge]

robot quetz, snot rocket mono, galli speed boosting, ptera skimming

[slim dragon]

There
Galli' speed boost isn't realistic either, but it makes more sense than chuffing increasing armor
Because we can imagine the call trigers a "fight or flight" reponse in gallis

[compact bolt]

robot quetz is just a concept art now

[dusky surge]

robot quetz is essentialy confirmed

same with the eyeless and strains

[compact bolt]

cerato also catch deino in its concept art

[dusky surge]

that was a small deino lol

and that is something it can do due to its adept swimming capabilities

[dusky surge]

i cant see anything in that pic

[fresh sand]

pretty much any boost can be attributed to adrenaline rush from a fight for flight response

ignoring damage and increased strength both happen when adrenaline spikes

[slim dragon]

Adrenaline from being near a corpse ?

[fresh sand]

from being near a foe near a corpse

[placid reef]

Bites regenerate stamina
Why, bc screw everyone else

[dusky surge]

@faint swallow they did that in a recent build

cera has a 150 bite force and gains a defence buff near corpses

[faint swallow]

The problem is having to be near corpses to receive that buff I feel, but I guess we will see how it works out based on the community experiences

[dusky surge]

its not that big a deal, cera is meant to be a bully, not a hunter

it being punished hard for approaching teno is fine imho

[faint swallow]

true but a teno combo puts cera basically at close to dying or death in the prev pacthes idk how it is now

[dusky surge]

which is fine

cera should be cautious around such creatures

and not charge them under the pretense of "i'm tanky, i'll live"

[viral jungle]

Why is cerato as agile as a Utah when it's 3x the size

[dusky surge]

i don't think it is

at least not in the ST

[viral jungle]

The way it zooms left and right from what I've seen

[dusky surge]

it's agile, sure

but its not as agile as an omni

but the reason it's so agile is for a defensive playstyle

guard all angles kinda deal

[bright oasis]

I dont see the problem either. Teno, the 1.6 t animal should be able to defend itself quite well against cera, the 1.3 t smaller animal.

Cera shouldnt be hunting an animal bigger than it solo while also being a poor hunter.

[hollow canyon]

You're talking to a person that kept complaining about how Cerato was going to be invalidated by Carno and said that it would be impossible to dodge a charge, just fyi.

Now this very person complains about how Cerato is too agile despite being told that it will likely be very agile.

[fresh laurel]

Think in the sense of more down to earth compared to the competitors

Then again strains are a thing

[errant plinth]

@livid spindle the buff near corpses is to signify a heightened emotional state and adrenaline not magic, essentially your cera is excited to have a meal and is ready to make anything that tries to take it the second course if it presses the issue, its essentially resource guarding and its adrenaline has spiked lowering its pain tolerance.

[tall bronze]

[livid spindle]

In this way, cera may just keep the body and not eat it.

[thin mantle]

Why wouldn't it?

[livid spindle]

If cera is in danger, it may be hiding on the surrounding bodies. If you eat the bodies, is there no buff?

[thin mantle]

I wouldn't imagine eating a body would remove the buff

[livid spindle]

Will there be any iconic tips when you get buff?

[livid spindle]

Cera's stomach is very special, and two-thirds of the meat of AI animals will disappear after entering cera's stomach.

[stark knoll]

@stone glen You can disable automatic alt bites in the settings, but you can't set it per species

[stone glen]

I like alt bite when I’m turning my camera other side, but use it as main attack is cringe for deino.

[dusky surge]

which is why you can disable it

[stark knoll]

@idle sage You can revert back to the old alt bite controls in the game settings

[idle sage]

Omg Ty so much

[strong solar]

@hoary summit realistically a single para would curb stomp an allosaurus with its weight alone. You wouldn’t need 3 to at least scare it

[alpine sleet]

is it possible for a cera to catch a carno at full stam easly?

[dusky surge]

yes

carno sucks atm

[alpine sleet]

easily*

because i was full stam and two ceras chased me to death and i didnt know if that was because of the ping

[dusky surge]

nah that's because cera has absolutely nuts stamina

[alpine sleet]

F

[dusky surge]

and carno has absolutely horrid stamina

seriously, carno is def the worst animal this update

[alpine sleet]

i mean i was doing well ambushing players then eating but the ceras got me

[dusky surge]

if it ever encounters more than 1 omni, 1 galli, 1 pachy or 1 cera, as a solo carno, it's basically dead

[alpine sleet]

f

[hoary summit]

Yes but I feel that the isle devs kinda hate para,so....

[dusky surge]

pretty sure para is kissen's fave animal lol

[hoary summit]

Well they made it really bad in legacy

I still play it toh,also because rn on legacy there are mostly noobs and para bigness scare them

[hoary summit]

It was once really good but then....

[dusky surge]

legacy is generally poorly balanced

[old hull]

the fact that at all times about 60-80% of the servers on legacy were only playing the 3 apexes should tell you all you need to know about how poorly legacy was balanced

and the devs proudly saying that the apexes in evrima will be even more extreme is not a good sign

[stiff ibex]

fr

[obtuse ocean]

Had no issue with that, wonder what server you played on. We killed apexes , it was hard as it should.

[old hull]

those are the numbers from the officials when they were around , admins flew around to check what everyone was playing day by day , and its not at all surprising because on legacy growing anything other then an apex is just a waste of time

why waste 4 hours on growing an allo when you spend an extra hour to have a rex which can just 1 shot 90% of the roster with very little skill needed

[obtuse ocean]

yea, you deserve that if a rex manage to walk up to you. Even tho i had tons of fun stuff without apexes. Sounds like you want easy food with zero skill

[old hull]

you are not listening , im saying it as a pure effeciency POV , if you want to get the most out of your time why play anything other then an apex

you can either spend lots of time learning to play an allo , or left click spam with an apex to get the same result

something i really hope evrima doesnt copy

[obtuse ocean]

Ahh your that guy, who think skill is only fighting. Not the fact that you actually need to get close etc.

[old hull]

hopefully evrimas apexes have pros and cons like everything else , they should not just be a midtier but better in every way

[obtuse ocean]

Ofcourse they have pros and cons, just like in legacy. They where slow,big and could only catch if you got caught offguard.

[old hull]

sure they had minor drawbacks on legacy but their pros FAR outweighted their cons

like giga , best trot in the game , it can essentially 1 shot the entire roster and bleed out everything that doesnt die in 1 hit , and can just walk away from any fight its too scared to take

where is the drawback there

[obtuse ocean]

I had zero problem with apexes aslong as i saw them, killed alot of them. Killed more in a pack of utahs in 1 hour then i did with my rex in 10 hours

[old hull]

yeah so have i , they arent invinsible but still way too easy

a rex fighting a pack of 10 utahs can make 20 mistakes and still win , the utah makes 1 wrong move and its over