balance-feedback-discussion

[somber sphinx]

Belive so ye

[strange dust]

that makes sense

[twilit juniper]

I’ve heard something about that, that unofficial Dino’s won’t forever be unofficial Dino’s

[dusky surge]

Thank God

[strange dust]

phew 😌

[golden coral]

It's a good replacement for a more suitable critter for the roster I think. And it has some "punch up" defensive potential at that, depending on what the devs do with it

And since people has all kinds of issue with how "OP" stego is, well, I guess they would be happy :p

[twilit juniper]

I think kentro should be Minecraft cactus

Take some kind of dmg by simply touching its spikes, since they’re everywhere

[somber sphinx]

Let’s hope the same thing happens with bary and deino

[strange dust]

honestly not sure what a good fix would be for apex (most powerful dino(s) currently) overpopulation. long growth times don't seem to put off many people (although they do complain :p)

[slim dragon]

Not having AI that spawns in their mouths so they don't ever need to hunt or look for food would be a good start

[stone fractal]

@normal granite i like ur idea but the buff for herbis staying near each other should not be a thing

[stone fractal]

ye so a dino can just live off AI and never have to fight other players

[strange dust]

adult carnos barely get anything from AI already, it's going to be even worse for bigger carnis

[stone fractal]

that a way to control the population of apex

and not have every sever whit 50 rexes or so

[strange dust]

kinda need ai in the game for juvis since it's not realistic to expect them to live off other juvis

[somber sphinx]

Good, anything bigger than carno imo shouldn’t be living off of ai

[stone fractal]

ye for juvies yes not for adults tho

[stone fractal]

exactely

[strange dust]

while not perfect, i like the current system because it gradually weans you off ai as your main food source

at least in my experience

[stone fractal]

and?

[slim dragon]

imo bigger animals should be able to live off AI
But they should work for it, AI shouldn't be free food like it is right now

[strange dust]

@coral wind you can eat while latching onto vertical surfaces (trees, rocks, etc)

[gilded flint]

@coral wind eat on tree

[coral wind]

Can't do that if you can't even fly up either with body in you mouth

[strange dust]

pretty sure you can fly while carrying something

if the thing is too big you can take meat chunks

[coral wind]

Only a few thing excluding hatchlings can be flied with ( small fish, frogs)
taking meat chunk is litteral insanity

[strange dust]

how so?

[coral wind]

wdym?

[strange dust]

how is taking meat chunks insanity?

[coral wind]

Taking out meat chunks over and over again whilst bringing it to a safe place is insanity, (not literally)

[dusk stag]

imagine a deino pulling a fg stego into water..... idk why people still asking for that

[dusk stag]

i dont think its a good idea coral... it will make the flyer even harder to hunt.

[coral wind]

Wdym harder to hunt? No one actively hunts Petra’s, a dinosaur that literally cannot do anything can’t at least get a safe place to eat?

[dusk stag]

currently the game gives you 3 options when you see a body. 1. take a risk eat on the ground till ur filled. 2. take little by little to a safe place and eat or 3. dont eat at all... if you look from the perspective of the other dinos like deinos who flyer is included in the diet will be never able to hunt it. no one actively hunt petra because they mostly dont get the chance to hunt one. cuz they are always somewhere high in a safe area. also petras can do some damage. they can kill juvies and subs just because u cant dont assume others dont use the birb for offence. if you make the bird just take a body up a tree other dinos will lose that food. they cant climb the tree to eat with you obviously. u need to look at this not only from the birbs perspective but from everything else. thats why its called BALANCE. what ur doing is trying to make the birb harder to hunt as possible. how is it balancing ?

[dusk stag]

just because no one actively hunt it you cant just give it god mode bro. there are only a very few times you can hunt a birb. if they mess up and fall down or while they are eating. they can always fly to a part of the river no one is at to drink safely. thats a very little window you get to kill a birb. if you take the risk of eating on the ground away only messing up can get u killed. most people dont mess up at all or they do very rarely and that means they are kind of immortal at that point XD

[coral wind]

No deino actively cares or even tries to kill pteras unless and obvious and easy kill no ones gonna be mad that they weren't able to eat the thing that can't defend itself from basically anything and gives your 5%+ hunger. Also what ptera is killing subs unless were talking about crazy talented players theres no ptera out here killing subs, then the second half of your essay is just bull, just because ptera can kill a juvie doesn't prove anything thats just u saying stuff, ALSO you can only carry 2 things in you mouth and still fly, and then you have the gull to tell me it's not balancing! It's as if you want the one thing that can practically do nothing to continue doing nothing!

[coral wind]

It's not like I'm asking for it to be able to carry things like juvie carno it's that the things it does kill should be rewarded as you are the 2nd weakest thing in the game, also you "god mode" is wrong god mode means your invincible and can kill anything you want without any trouble, the opposite of ptera which cannot kill besides fresh spawn utahs, hypsis, and hatchlings, also deinos barely get food from pteras I haven't seen a single time where deino hasn't gotten 1-10% food. All I want is ptera to actually secure it's kill properly, every other dino can do that pretty effectivly except ptera, and your going to such lengths to not want a good trait to a very underpowerd animal.

[crimson echo]

Ptera doesn't need any nerfs, it flying already makes it a very op animal to catch. Stop being lazy, if pteras were allowed a "safe place to eat" then there would be no way of hunting them unless the VERY rare chance you catch one drinking. You can already grab small items or chunks and bring them to a safe spot. There's no need to allow smth like this

[crimson echo]

Ptera shouldn't be expected to hunt anything larger than Juvies. It should stay around Juvie level and they can already catch Juvies pretty easily if you're skilled at flying enough

Pteras do not need any kind of buff on its survival. Them flying already gives them the biggest advantage out of the roster

[coral wind]

I legit said it should get a small buff and then you say it needs a nerf then you tell me to stop being lazy? I mean did you read what I typed? And once again no one hunts Petra’s most Petra’s are at the bay chilling, also it’s dumb how a 45kg animal can’t carry a rabbit, or a chicken, I’m not asking for it to be able to carry juvies! Also you picturing ptera as this chore part of the ecosystem even though no one cares about them the last time I’ve seen someone die to one is from the ptera being an idiot.

[coral wind]

Once again I’m not asking for it to be able to carry juvie utahs just small Ai that
Are lower than its weight

[golden coral]

I don't quite understand, ptera is already pretty much immortal, letting it have even less dangers does not sound like a reasonable thing. Yes, its dangerous to drink and eat, and it should be? Otherwise there's no danger at all, almost, for a ptera?

[coral wind]

I don’t want it picking up juvies or anything just small Ai that it hunts (rabbit)
And with the new gore update Petra’s will be pulling things from corpses to get there organs which would be the most optimal choice instead of grabbing dead rabbits, this still leaves ptera to get ambushed.

[thin bough]

It already can?

[coral wind]

Last time I checked it can't but that was last update since I picked up ptera so maybe

[thin bough]

Ptera rly doesn’t need any buffs or nerds

Nerfs

Balanced as it’s gonna get tbh

[dusk stag]

maybe i wasnt clear, by god mode i ment that petra is invincible from land attacks when its flying. u can only kill it if u see it drinking or eating or if it mess up a landing / attack. so what u are asking is the ability to pickup juvi bodies and whatnot up a tree so petra can eat it up there means others will lose a chance to kill it all together along with whatever its gonna carry up the tree. i actually kill anything i see if i see birb i kill it there is no doubt about it. i see that u consider petra as a derp animal people use to ef around and explore but i dont see them that way. anyway my OPINION is that petra is Balanced already you dont need any buffs to it. maybe some more stam other than that i dont think it need anything at all. im sorry if my above comment offend you in someway but petra actually can do Kill juvies and whatnot if you put ur back into it. i see utahs juvis and subs get killed by those all the time. just because you choose not to do anything with it doesnt mean everyone else play it just like you.... in summery Petra is BALANCED already u dont need to buff it at all.

[crimson echo]

Is rabbit even in its diet, also I'm pretty sure a ptera can pick up a dead rabbit already but if it can't who cares, just because it's slightly heavier doesn't mean it should pick it up, after all Pteras jaws aren't very powerful and aren't really made to be grabbing rabbits

[river nebula]

ptera is like the least problematic playable letting it carry small ai corpses and fly away aswell as stuff like adult hypsis would be fine imo its not gonna cause any game balance ruining issues as if ptera already dont get so bored playing the animal that they actively suicide into the floor even as something as little as picking up the small animals on your prey list and flying away would atleast make it a bit more engaging could just have a ptera consume alot more stamina when flying when carrying something like a dead hypsi so they still have to land frequently or at risk of danger when trying to get their food to safety

[keen plover]

I'm dead certain Ptera was allowed to carry Hypsi's in update 6 and fly off

[river nebula]

since the hypsis population does not exist i have not been able to test this but i dont believe you can

[keen plover]

hmmm

[river nebula]

i like that ptera is a scavanger but im kinda tired of everyone trying to keep it as boring and as non dangerous as possible just for the sake of that and then these same people wonder why barley anyone plays ptera

[keen plover]

I could find out on scope lol. Will try that out later

[river nebula]

ight lmao

[frail bobcat]

You can, I play ptera frequently and caught a few hypsis

[strange dust]

i think ptera is fine as it is, would rather see bigger flyers like quetz have a more pvp-oriented playstyle

[dusky surge]

^

[dusk stag]

When I play Petra I just kill juvis... my favorite pass time is harassing bleeding animals or ones that are trying to hide.

[river nebula]

Basically do the same thing just still wish some stuff ab Ptera was changed around like having elite fish in the diet or the really pointless running take off

Hypsi just does not exist so until there’s more of a tiny roster there’s virtually nothing to do as Ptera besides looking for juvis to kill

[dusk stag]

When beipi and other dinos get added maybe Petra can be useful somehow...

[river nebula]

All I want for Ptera buff wise is like a smidge higher bite force just so when you jumpscare a hypsi it actually just dies on impact lol

[thin mantle]

Nah it’s good where it is

[dusk stag]

If it dies on impact it ain't a proper jump scare tho.... the confusion wtf was that is the true feeling that scares you XD I'm kind of scared that juvi carnos might die to Petra too easily then... with biteforce

[thin mantle]

Ptera is also just….not an animal meant for hunting

Flight is far too good an advantage to allow ptera any kind of actual power

[river nebula]

I can’t see how giving Ptera like 5 extra bite force or something would RUIN the ecosystem balance when people mostly just play it as a creature to mess with people and then suicide like 20 mins after being full grown the flying is already super even with the advantage of flight if the prey animal you’re hunting just walks into the woods or cover you just lose lol

If deinos out here grabbing full grown animals when they’re not even close to being fully grown aswell as playing like some roided up megalania when they’re not an adult I don’t think buffing Ptera a slight bit Is gonna be the end of the world

[thin mantle]

It’s a bad idea to justify one unrelated balance change by referencing how awful balance is for other creatures

Like deino absolutely should not function as it does

[alpine plover]

i dont enjoy people using pt to kill people and greif personally

[thin mantle]

And I don’t think buffing PTs damage does anything more than encourage it to hunt, which is something it basically shouldn’t be doing

[alpine plover]

if anything it should be a fish and frog hunter, which it is. Sometimes i use it to scavenge the organs from corpses but thats about it

[tall bronze]

Kinda bums me out when people see a creature as boring and then the immediate go-to is to make it better at fighting ;o; I mean I don't blame em, but it's sad because it just points out how utterly lacking the non-combative side of the game is right now, and it's been this way for so long that it's ingrained into many many players that fighting is what matters, not surviving.

[thin mantle]

It’s difficult because it does make sense that combat would be desired if it’s lacking, it’s difficult to make an activity more engaging or competitive than combat, which is why I always prefer for each playable to have at least one good matchup (carno/teno, dryo/Troodon, etc) even if they’re non combative

Just so that they have that Avenue if they want it despite the creature not needing it too much

Ptera is sorta an outlier tho

[tall bronze]

Yeah I can see that, however I'm a bit more in the boat of "you can do whatever you want to do, just don't complain when you die."

[thin mantle]

Im in the same boat

I just want one permissible matchup for each creature if possible

[tall bronze]

Part of me agrees but there's another part that feels conflicted towards that and I am unsure why

I think it reminds me of the "consistency" discussions like "apexes should all be 50/50 fights with each other!!!!" which I hate, because Isle is a game I feel that consistency can actually be harmful If we had actual stuff to d o outside of combat, I'd be fine with a creature that's basically "outside of the obvious hatchling or juvie, you pretty much just don't fight". Though at the same time, aside from hatchlings/juvies, wouldn't your own species since they're the same basically be an average matchup?

Aside from Deino vs Deino but I blame that on Deino being Deino

[thin mantle]

Oh that’s not what I mean

I just think every creature should have at least one contentious 1v1 so that that Avenue isn’t blocked entirely

If it’s an interesting enough matchup then it can completely satiate that combative edge so many players have whilst maintaining the integrity of the playables

It’s also just fundamentally lame to me for matchups to be defined by ratios

[tall bronze]

https://tenor.com/view/nod-kermit-nod-nodding-gif-24624072

[thin mantle]

Like that’s not really how combat works In This game

[tall bronze]

"50/50"

[thin mantle]

A stego that has angled itself against slopes or cliffs should never die to omnis

I don’t care how many of them there are, and no this isn’t unfair

The stego just has good positioning and therefor it’s immunized itself to that danger while it remains there

[thin mantle]

Yeah like….I feel as tho that only applies to mirror matchups

[tall bronze]

I very much love the concept of not every fight being uh....."fair" I guess? Not necessarily that but similar. Not balanced like a fighting game where "X beats Y beats Z" if that makes sense. Sometimes, a creature is just really, really dangerous and you should prolly just run away.

[thin mantle]

Mhm, I also appreciate the philosophy that larger slower creatures have a lot of guaranteed success conditions because unlike real animals…there’s no psychological deterrent for being big, so they have to be buffed up a bit or enabled in some ways to negate threats that they literally can’t “avoid” if they tried to flee

Because that’s how you make a survival game fair

You give each creature the tools to survive as many circumstances as they can if they play competently

If you’re achieving that you’ve succeeded in balance for this genre

That doesn’t necessarily make the playstyles more fun, like I don’t enjoy stegos playstyle at all because it’s super one dimensional (not as much as deino but stego has a very simplistic meta), and unfortunately I feel like people take that as an example in an attempt to prove that making a creature really defensively competent inherently makes them boring

When it’s really just a matter of stegos controls and attack patterns being very predictable, unintuitive, and shallow when it comes to mechanical skill expression (since stego has ti stop moving for all of its relevant attacks which all basically do the same thing in different directions)

[tall bronze]

I think some part of defensive stuff feeling boring is because since you yourself aren't really going after things, that means you need other stuff to do.....which we kinda lack right now <:P

[thin mantle]

Like if you just fixed these issues it would be fun, and still be just as competent

[thin mantle]

True to a certain extent

[tall bronze]

Mmmhm.

The other issues are like you said, some stuff being too simple

[thin mantle]

But stego and deino can’t even really be counted in that discussion because stego can only be threatened by 2 animals, both of which aren’t fun to fight

And deino is immune to being….threatened

Teno is a much better example of all of this done well

(When the game is balanced without hard mechanical counters to it)

[tall bronze]

[thin mantle]

Even tho Omni still curbstomped it

[thin mantle]

You don’t think teno is a good example of a defensive animal done well? If so do tell

(Aside from Carno and Pachy currently removing it from the game ofc)

[golden coral]

@raven egretConsidering the carno seems like it would be quite capable of running things down in the open, the changes made a lot of sense. And with a fixed hitbox, it should be much better all around.

[somber sphinx]

And that ambushes aren’t good in the open at all

[dusky surge]

AMBUSH CARNO

[somber sphinx]

Yes, the perfect carno

[dusky surge]

No potential flaws with this

[somber sphinx]

It’s its only viable niche, perfect for a plains and small game hunter

[thin mantle]

Woo!

Ambush carno pog....so excited to be playing a beached whale

Bird with no wings, fish with no fins, etc

[thin bough]

Teno is the perfect example of balance in the isle tbh not overpowered not underpowered fun to fight while not being a cakewalk

[dusky surge]

not wrong

teno has basically always been an amazingly balanced animal

[frail bobcat]

Fighting tenos is so fun

[obtuse ocean]

It is, but not all can be perfectly balanced. Some will be very overpowered and underpowered. Depends on situations,im guessing anky not gonna be any threat. But if it hits you,its gonna feel incredibly overpowered

[thin bough]

Shouldn’t work that way imo

There should be apex’s for sure but there should be population control

And not making stats way to OP

[random stump]

if a omni saw a stego irl it would mess itself and run away. in the isle it tries to epic 1v1 it for its sharpfang the utah kill comp

[thin bough]

It’s on Omni’s diet devs clearly intended for Omni to have a chance with killing the stego realistic or not.

[random stump]

They intended for it to maul younger stegos before they got large

[thin bough]

Why isn’t it on carnos diet

[somber sphinx]

It can eat stegos organs to get its diets

[random stump]

they dont intend for it to maul younger stegos before they get large

they've called carno a small game hunter 90000+ times

i dont see where the question is on why the biggest terrestrial isnt on their diet comes from

[thin bough]

Keyword before they get large?

Tenonto is on carnos diet it isn’t small game

[random stump]

they dont intend for it to maul stegos*

[random stump]

have you seen a teno next to a carno

it aint a utah next to it but it sure as hell aint its size

[thin bough]

Is a tenonto small game.

[random stump]

its like 1/2 the carnos size gamer

[slim dragon]

I don't think current diets should be given that much credit
There's only so much you can do with the lame shopping lists and 9 playables

[thin bough]

💀💀💀😭💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀😭💀😭💀😭😭😭💀😭😭😭😭👍😭👍👍

[somber sphinx]

Organs >

[slim dragon]

(200 kg difference)

[random stump]

thats fair tbh

[random stump]

(Its visibly 1/2 its size and the weight is for health balancing purposes)

[thin bough]

Teno is known for being a small herbivore

You learn something new everyday 💀💀💀

[random stump]

(which doesnt matter because it just gets spam charged to death anyways)

[slim dragon]

The weight is because teno weighs that much in-game, it has other factors than health

[somber sphinx]

Irl yeah, teno got a massive size buff in the isle

[thin bough]

Nobody is talking about irl

[slim dragon]

Visually, teno looks like something that would weigh 1.6 ton

[somber sphinx]

My bad then but it still isn’t “small” by any means

[thin bough]

Ik I’m being sarcastic

[slim dragon]

As opposed to omni who should barely weigh 350 kg

[thin bough]

350kg is being generous ngl lol

[somber sphinx]

Wouldn’t mind if Omni got nerfed to that weight when irl utah arrives

[thin bough]

Omni needs a buff not a nerf

[random stump]

nerf its weight buff its bleed like 3x when utah arrives ez (Joke)

[thin bough]

Honestly buffing stam regen and fixing the pouncing bugs would make Omni viable

Half the time an Omni dies it’s due to desync or a pounce bug

[dusky surge]

Or just nerfing carno

[random stump]

or due to carnos charge hitbox being

5 miles wide

[thin bough]

That change is already happening

[random stump]

bro carries a wave of air with him so dense that it kills omnis within 10 feet

[dusky surge]

which basically makes omni viable

because that's 95% of the reason it's so bad

[random stump]

omni is ass because carno is good

omni is not ass because omni is ass

[thin bough]

Once they fix the pouncing bugs for sure

[random stump]

meaning if you make carno less oppressive towards omni, omni isnt ass

(and ofcourse fix bugs like pouncing)

[thin bough]

But it’s awful growing for an hour then getting stuck on a tenos ass for 3 seconds due to a bugged dismount

I don’t think a stam regen buff would hurt either considering most important aspect of hunting with an omni is stamina

[thin mantle]

I genuinely haven't encountered any significant behavioral problems with pounce this update

[frail bobcat]

There is the weird shaky camera

[tall bronze]

Late response but I think Teno is brilliant as a defensive creature (and really just in general). The was in reference to Deino being immune to stuff

[thin mantle]

I didn’t really think anything otherwise so good! On that we are identical

[alpine plover]

Raptor needs some kinda love bad stamina and just so many counters you can buck use all the raptors stamina after 1-2 seconds of pounce or put your face into a tree and knock them off kill them in one shot or stand next to a cliff make the raptor fall to his death after he lands a pounce other carnivores are countered as well by these but not all of these at once I mean croc hold m2 carno hold m2 raptor hold m2 get punished by the world for landing it 90% of the time if you don’t get one shot on your way in or bugged on your way out

[dusky surge]

Where is this "bad stamina" thing coming from

Omni still has one of the best stampools in the game

[alpine plover]

Fight anything in the game pounce and your stam is all gone after 1-2 seconds if they buck or play carno and spam m2 free all day long and fight and have fun or croc you land m2 and just run for a year as a juvi while holding giant adults in your mouth and still drown them

[dusky surge]

Raptor's issue isn't that it's bad, it's issue is that every other animal in the game is busted

Deino, carno and pachy are proof of this

Not even mentioning the fact that most of the roster is built specifically to counter it

Deino has bleed resist, carno is made to be great at hunting raptor, stego has insane flank protection, pachy is designed to decimate any animal in its own size tier (especially raptor)

That leaves teno (its one matchup which is more balanced on either side), dryo and hypsi

[alpine plover]

I agree about it tbh I just think that like you said every other dino presses mouse 2 and it’s fun no death side draw like a Omni it’s buggy and gets countered hard

Just want a way to press m2 and have fun don’t care what they do

[dusky surge]

U6.5 does change this tho

3/4 new animals are pretty vulnerable to omni

[alpine plover]

Don’t care if it’s low dmg or anything as long as I can use my mechanics like every other character

[dusky surge]

Galli, troodon and beipi are all easier food options for omni

[somber sphinx]

It can, it’s just that the current patch changed Omnis niche a bit

[alpine plover]

Doesn’t feel good get bucked off and have zero stamina after 1 pounce and have to leave the fight awkwardly or getting bugged and dying while carno and croc and patchy spam stuff for years and little to no downside 90% of the time

I’m also 1 week into the game so I don’t know what raptor felt like or was before

[somber sphinx]

Before Omni was massively overpowered

Like REALLY overpowered

[alpine plover]

I just think that landing a pounce means you have the long game doesn’t do crazy dmg right so there for I should be able to run around and wait but losing all my stamina after they buck for 1-2 seconds on top of them spamming tail slams and headbutt and charges for years and I land mine and don’t “miss or an even able to spam it” and it have enough stamina after to wait them out while there going crazy is nuts

At least let me have stamina to wait them out while there spamming pretty much one shots at me

I can’t miss my pounce without dying in front of them

[somber sphinx]

Then bait them and do tap pounces untill they run out of stam and then full on pounce them. Rn nothing can buck off Omni if they don’t have any stam at all so now it’s kinda like a stamina drainer/bleeder than just a bleeder like it was before

[alpine plover]

If they pre hold buck it snipes your stam the second you land though

And cause bug

All other characters miss anything in front of a raptor there chilling still sure they get bit or pounced / a raptor misses a pounce in front of any of them GG if there good and even if you do land it they pre buck your stam is gone now

Mean while teno spams 9 tail slams and lands one on you rip

Risk missing a pounce getting one shot or landing it losing all your stamina and getting one shot “if it doesn’t bug”

[obtuse ocean]

Your using alot of i here, if your omnis it should be "us". If your alone, well yea thats how it works.

[alpine plover]

youre right all 8 of us is gonna stop that

0:36 on that second clip is crazyyyyyyyy

[dusky surge]

carno moment

they're nerfing the hitbox for that reason

[thin mantle]

Also both of those clips are in the open

The one and only biome carno has an advantage over you in

Exist anywhere else and it either won't find you or you can just straight up kill it

[alpine plover]

but we are hunting him he wouldnt go there

if he was hunting us sure but in a world when we wanna kill a solo carno hes not gonna walk into the forest is he ?

[thin mantle]

Don't hunt him then

[alpine plover]

so lets say he the hitbox is tiny and he should of missed right

[thin mantle]

He's a bad target, if he won't get baited into the forest then the hunt quite possibly just won't work

[alpine plover]

so as raptor you bait in the woods that's hard vs good players

[thin mantle]

No, carnos have to eat too

You bait them into inclement terrain using their own appetite

The sheer amount of carnos I've had fall for that strategy is honestly quite funny

[dusky surge]

also, again, carno is broken, and has been acknowledged as such by the devs

[thin mantle]

Mhm

[alpine plover]

yeah for real

[thin mantle]

But irrespective of it's hitbox problems, there are ways to combat it...and if the proposed solution is to buff omni in some way then that implies it has a statistical shortcoming that needs to be fixed

When it honestly just seems like players are putting themselves in carnos court consistently and suffering the consequences of that

Which is understandable....spiro forests suck

But that doesn't mean they aren't useful

[alpine plover]

this is true !

[keen plover]

Honestly, even with a fixed hitbox, Carno should have a reliable chance against 3 - 4 Omnis. Which for it should be an equal fight. If there's 2 Carnos, Omni's should honestly just run lol

[thin mantle]

Also true

[alpine plover]

I guess my only thing I can say is if you watch that I would be dead still anyways cause I was out of stam at the end and that dude didnt walk at alllllll yet he is spamming like crazy so idk how that fairs

maybe idk

I should of dodged allllllll those hits

and been 100% hp for sure

[thin mantle]

Mainly because carno is the only matchup where this concern even exists....because carno is the only thing in the game faster than you

[alpine plover]

but I def was gonna run out of stam and he was going crazy didnt walk at all

[thin mantle]

Which is why carno is a terrible target for hunting, and a great predator for omni

[alpine plover]

true true

[obtuse ocean]

Christ, 8 omnis? What you want ? Wipe the server? Or balanced dinos, you can litterly flee and hunt 90% of the rooster if we had all dinos in game. And you complain about carno, its supose to be one of the hardest matchup for an omni. Since you cant just control the fight

[alpine plover]

Not even what I’m saying watch the video

Just cause you like playing carno and ramming people from 7 years away doesn’t mean we all like it

[obtuse ocean]

Carno hitbox should be nerfed, never said anything about that. If it does, its a matchup a omni should try to avoid

[alpine plover]

yeah what we all said and agreed on

[obtuse ocean]

I saw you complaining about bucking and stam when u started,

And i think thats fine, i do agree on the hitbox of carno tho

[alpine plover]

yeah vs all I want a rework 8 omni raptor gameplay is pounce run sit in bush while others pounce rinse repeat if your not 3rd party and murdered I want some way to keep it fun

why do I wanna go sit in a bush after landing 1-2 attacks

not fun rework find a way make it dope

its fair for what it is

[obtuse ocean]

Sit in a bush ? You mean vs carno? You dont need to do that vs larger dinos who wont be able to catch you, so you can just rince and repeat. Does not sound fun for the guy your attacking either

[alpine plover]

nah vs all

not vs carno allways

[obtuse ocean]

You need to run into a bush vs a stego ?

[alpine plover]

aint gonna get bump rushed by a random carno sitting anywhere else

[dusky surge]

tbh, you aren't really well built to face off against carno as raptor, in fact, it's one of your worst matchups

[alpine plover]

idc vs carno

[obtuse ocean]

yea, and the more or less the only thing u need to worry about in the whole game. Carno, the rest you can choose to flee or hunt.

[alpine plover]

vs all like it makes sense 8 omnis sure crazy strong but its boring I pounce he bucks i got no stam i sit bush so no one random comes behind and merks me pounce he bucks sit in bush like the system now works but is boring

id rather do supperrrrrrrrrrrrr low dmg but stay in the fight longer

so much more fun know what i mean

[obtuse ocean]

You should try pot, u can do 10 mistakes and still fight

[alpine plover]

Nah it’s just needs a rework imo pack of any other characters get to just fight swing spam most but raptors gameplay is pounce lose all your stam go sit come back do 1-2 pounces go sit again just not as fun as rest you wouldn’t think a raptor is a slow gameplay type of dinosaur and pachy just cracked out there minds it’s funny af

[dusky surge]

raptor is built to be an endurance/bleed predator, of course it's not going to be extremely quick at felling foes

as for pachy, that animal needs a pile of nerfs

[alpine plover]

so fing stupid that when the croc grabs you, you cant do sh .

[thin mantle]

Hopefully gateways water clarity alleviates this somewhat

[alpine plover]

Nah I don’t wanna be quick to kill like I said I would rather do no dmg and stay in a fight than to fight sit fight sit like frick that I wanna go crazy doing little dmg than what we got now as in give us a set dmg for each pounce that does x amount of dmg and you stay on the target for x amount of time it’s own animation maybe idk very little dmg though I just personally hate losing all my stamina after 1-2 seconds of bucking

[thin mantle]

That’s why you tap pounce

[dusky surge]

^

[thin mantle]

Save longer pounces for when the target is out of stam

Treat pounce like a finisher

[alpine plover]

Yeah y’all say that but me and my friend go to pvp servers and you pre hold buck it drains you no matter what you do

[thin mantle]

The only way for that to be possible is for you to be pouncing a target that’s already bucking

You can’t buck without an Omni on you

You can’t prefire your buck, that’s why tap pouncing is so effective

[alpine plover]

If you want I can show you but the second he latched it starts up and locks you 90% of the time

It glitches hard and can get you stuck on the guy too

[thin mantle]

Idk, might be a latency issue

I basically only play omni and the only bug I’ve run into with pounce is some camera jitters

But I haven’t encountered any critical issues since U4

[alpine plover]

Yeah that’s lucky for you I got so many odd dismount glitches

[thin mantle]

Got any vids of it?

Cuz I haven’t seen anything like that for ages

[golden coral]

@stone gardenI can somewhat agree with no buck while running, but it's not needed, because you drain stamina passively if you're pouncing something and it's moving, so it's already a not very good idea for the target to both run, buck, and have the extra stam drain. Bleed does stack, I don't understand what you're on about there. And I don't think it needs to be higher bleed, the bleed is lethal already, it really is. Your examples are also quite terrible, because you're not meant to solo a carno as omni, so of course that will take a good while, if possible at all, that's exactly how it should go. Get two more omnis and you're much better off. And saying pachy can kill carno faster/easier, yeah, and that's because pachy is quite "OP" and really needs to be looked at, because it should'nt be doing that either, and probably not better than omni at that. So if it takes about 30 min to solo a carno as omni, it should take 40+ min as pachy perhaps. In any case, unless there's 3+ omnis or pachies, a solo carno should not really fear them much, and by no means should a solo omni or pachy pose a threat to a carno.

[golden coral]

@alpine ploverI'd also want to see that "pre hold buck", because to my experience you only get the prompt to buck if you're already pounced, so there's no way to be bucking "on your own". So not sure what is going on there, if you could demonstrate that'd be good.

[keen plover]

Nah I would argue bucking while running is needed. If you stand and buck, it sets up you for more pounces. Hard pass.

Also omni fights are meant to be long.

Against larger games

[dusky surge]

i actually dont see the point of letting buck and run at the same time

a lot of the animations don't really make sense to be running

and it means you have to make a choice

make distance, or get the attacker off

[keen plover]

You don't make distance with most playables in the roster. You just get insane bleed on you that will likely kill you.

Hardly a pressing issue for Omni. Use your numbers to keep track of prey

The bucking and running allows things to position themselves better. I'd rather that than Omni pouncing you and forcing you to stay in one spot

[dusky surge]

Ehh

I personally think the running + bucking is an exceptionally hard to read animation

Which doesn't make it very fair for the omnis

[keen plover]

It is pretty audible, but I guess that's true. I'd rather it be unfair for Omni than unfair on the other playable.

[dusky surge]

i dont think that's particularly unfair on the other player though

stam damage is nuts

[keen plover]

I think it would be a more interesting approach if multiple omni's on you made you not able to run & buck. I don't think a solo raptor slowing you down while others come is fair. Since they'll likely eventually have better tracking as well. I'd rather them use group play to start it imo. I guess that's a way that could make it more worrying for raptor packs, while solo raptors don't do much in that regards.

[dusky surge]

you arent slowed down though

you can still run, just not buck at the same time

[keen plover]

Well not slowed down *

Yeah, but running and not bucking is suicide. Hardly a decent alternative

[dusky surge]

i wouldn't say that

[keen plover]

Which would again, set you up for more pounces

It is though. Carno essentially bleeds out if it runs and doesn't buck. Teno similarly

[dusky surge]

buck, then run

or run, then buck

the rate you drain the omni's stam is fast

[keen plover]

I guess, but I'd rather the current system be kept.

[dusky surge]

I feel like there's really not that much harm in the system now that buck actually does something

A big reason so many omnis die to stamloss while pouncing is terrible visual conveyance

The buck animation is really only pronounced while not moving

[keen plover]

Fair. I'd have to see how Omni performs in 6.5 against other creatures. Maybe its better in other regards

I wouldn't be opposed to it if the other creatures have ample time to do stuff

[sick ether]

yall must prey on unrealistic gameplay if youre disagreeing with my last point lol

its a dinosaur simulator

[golden coral]

Huh?

[sick ether]

how is increasing the headshot damage to stegos a bad idea

read my last point

[keen plover]

How much would you increase it 🤔

[sick ether]

people really be disagreeing with making the game slightly more realistic

[golden coral]

First off, the game isn't really a "dino sim", second, stego has a higher head multiplier already, so that's a thing, if you wanted "realism" (it is however, lacking dermal armor on neck and throat, that it should have, which would protect the "weak" head as it were).

[keen plover]

Also if we did base it off realism... Then Carno would crush an Omni's head. As well as Teno potentially lol

[golden coral]

Realism does not always make for good balance for that matter.

[dusky surge]

realistically, a single headshot from a stego's thagomizer would obliterate a deino instantly

[golden coral]

But stego already has extra multiplier, so you have what you want.

[dusky surge]

but that's not fun, is it

[sick ether]

there is obviously a limit to how much realism u can have, before the game gets broken and completely unfun

well thats not what im saying, im not saying croc should 1 shot a stego in the head, although it probably damn well could

theres just a big ass problem with stegos camping deino waters when that makes no sense at all, so what would you do to balance it realistically?

[golden coral]

Well, you started arguing that we want unrealistic gameplay if we disagree with you, despite the fact that you now say that there should be a limit to realism, so... :p

[golden coral]

Ignore the thing youre not meant to hunt in the first place. It's entirely on the deinos for being stupid about it

[keen plover]

Honestly, not much you can do on Spiro lol. It's mainly a map issue. Narrow rivers + small map

[golden coral]

Also be a bit aware of where you are and if you can be "camped" or not

[somber sphinx]

I mean, you can also just swim away from them

[keen plover]

Also true

[sick ether]

deinos arent hunters theyre ambush predators

[golden coral]

And the funny NW waterfall hotspot :p

[golden coral]

Yes. Let me clarify then, ignore the thing you're not meant to ambush and predate upon.

[somber sphinx]

They are hunters, they just ambush their prey

[sick ether]

you can, but then you have stegos that camp the bodies of the things you kill

[somber sphinx]

Then go away and wait, the stegos will be bored and leave

[golden coral]

You know, if you properly kill, it means you grabbed something, went into the middle of the river or something, and drowned it

Not sure how anything aside from another deino corpseguards that

[sick ether]

sometimes that isnt always possible in every situation

yall are really tryna say its good and dandy to have stegos completely denying deinos from stuff lol

[somber sphinx]

Yes because it should

[sick ether]

which makes absolutely no sense at all

please tell me how that makes sense, considering half the stego playerbase is legit only for pvp and all they do is camp riversides so deinos cant do anything but "run away"

stegos SHOULD be more afraid of the waters

4 full grown deinos sometimes cant kill 1 full grown stego, realistically that is just insane

[somber sphinx]

Without stegos to deal with land deinos then we would see them everywhere, we need to have something that pushes deinos away from the land and into the water

[somber sphinx]

That’s a huge skill issue lmao

[sick ether]

stegos should be able to deny them from being on land yes

[golden coral]

Two full grown deinos can quite easily at the least make a fullgrown stego run away terrified

Also I do think it works as a "precedent" for trike and rex and stuff

[somber sphinx]

Even 1 can now

[sick ether]

yes and ive done it before, but the stegos should be afraid and they are not

[golden coral]

Because when those come in, well, they're just going to do what stego does but cranked up to eleven as it were :p

[golden coral]

Because they know most deinos aren't good at all perhaps :p

[somber sphinx]

Not really, deinos aren’t supposed to hunt things bigger than 4 tons

[sick ether]

theres no way a stego with that tiny ass head and brain they would be able to stand their ground against a successful ambush from a damn 8 ton crocodile lmao

yea no sht

[golden coral]

Not if we went by realism no, but we're not. :p

[sick ether]

see with herbivores, theyre SUPPOSED to defend and play defensively

[somber sphinx]

And there’s no way a deino can survive a full blow from stegos tail directly to its head

[sick ether]

crocs should be able to do the same with their territory which is the waters

[somber sphinx]

Not all do, some extend to offensive capabilities like pachy

[sick ether]

maybe give deino some kind of water buff?

[somber sphinx]

Yes and it can, a swimming stego is doomed if the river is big enough (gateway my beloved)

[somber sphinx]

No

[sick ether]

how do you disagree with absolutely everything xD

it makes zero sense

[somber sphinx]

I disagree that deino needs any buffs, it’s the strongest playable and it cannot die unless it chooses to

[sick ether]

yes, stegos should currently control the lands from deinos, but we have 2 apex dinos here, one controlling land and one controlling the water.. oh wait no hold on, stegos still can control the waters because they do insane amounts of damage (while yes realistic enough) but thats some god damn bs

[sick ether]

youre right, but sometimes its just an absolute pain in the ass when a whole group of stegos camp u from eating or anything like that lol

[somber sphinx]

They don’t control the waters tho

[somber sphinx]

Then wait or have the food IN the water with you

[sick ether]

they pretty much do buddy lol have u not seen what a full group of stegos do??

[somber sphinx]

They control the riverbanks which is kinda still the land

If they go swimming then deino has the control

[sick ether]

how much headshot damage does a deino do to a stegs head?

[somber sphinx]

The dmg multiplier is 2x to stegos head and deinos does 500dmg per bite

So if I remember correctly, deino needs 6-8 bites to kill a stego (if it only lands headshots tho)

[dusky surge]

6 bites, around

[sick ether]

interesting, considering most times a full group of deinos attack a single stego even with everyone biting, the stego still manages to get a few hits in before it retreats

the only damage numbers im aware of is that stego does 25% damage to a deinos head

4-5 shotting a deino if it lands all headshots

which is fair, stego tail is deadly as hall heck, if its actually 6 bites to headshot kill a stego as a deino then thats fair i think, but that must be quite rare and i cant say ive done it myself, and i fight a lot of stegos and try to go for head alt bites every time.

[stone garden]

I've seen stegos swim across rivers take like 3-4 bites make it to the other side and still either kill the deino or do enough damage to make him run after already being smashed in the water.

Who actually owns the water. 😉

[sick ether]

FINALLY someone who can stand up for me omg

a stego should legit not be able to do that xD but fr people keep saying "oh well ill be damned nope its fine thats realistic as and its an even funner experience"

[somber sphinx]

1. That’s spiro rivers, they are soo small and shallow that stegos can swim without a worry
2. If it killed the deino even with 4-5 bites to the head then that’s a skill issue imo

[stone garden]

Turn mechanics for Stego alt tail attack make it impossible for a Deino to attack the head, A good Stego player will always win vs a good Deino player.

[somber sphinx]

As it should be imo, stego should have the clear advantage between those two in a matchup

[sick ether]

actually believe it or not stego doesnt have an alt attack, i thought it turned differently as well but it turns out it actually just depends on where ur camera is when u do the swing

[stone garden]

Hence why you need 3 good Deino players to take down a Stego, but the Stego can always disengaged from the fight if they are good.. He can even kill 1 Deino and run if he knows what he is doing. Draw them on land stam them out making them chase you.

Kill them all

[sick ether]

i think you would arguably have a lot more deino players calling bs than stego players calling bs on dying to deinos

[somber sphinx]

You need 2, if it takes 3 then there’s something wrong with the deinos

[sick ether]

deinos dont have to risk anything, they can go in like tanks, completely out of their territory and own whatever land they want

[stone garden]

Stop saying you need 2 that is a lie, you need 3..

[somber sphinx]

Nop, I’ve done it with 2 and seen it

[sick ether]

i have taken down a stego with 2 of us, and i have somehow seen GMVgaming on youtube win 1v1's but most of the time when theres even more than damn 3 deinos still suffer

[stone garden]

1 to lunge grab then bite and re apply lunge to stagger the stego and two to bite constantly to apply damage, a good stego player will run from 2 after killing one of you.

[sick ether]

that is tru

the stegos ive killed in 2v1 havent ran

[golden coral]

Deino from what I know have the normal 1.5 multiplier, stego does about 1200 damage, do the math :p

[sick ether]

i watched my hp go down from letting a stego kill me once, and it definitely was not doing 12% hp dmg at a time if thats what ur saying

[golden coral]

No, thats not true, deino can stay on stego head quite well, it is anything but impossible for deino to attack stego head. Stego does have the addvantage in a 1v1, but not to that degree.

[sick ether]

it went down by around 25% each hit

[sick ether]

"quite well" my ass LMAO

[golden coral]

You need two, not three.

[golden coral]

¨You can. Mix altbite with bite, you just stay on stego head, because alt bite moves you. It's rather easy xD

[sick ether]

if u swing with ur camera in the correct position the stego legit fully rotates so it puts its ass in ur face and moves its head in the opposite direction

[golden coral]

You only need to stun/lunge once, then the other deino shreds the stego with head bites.

[somber sphinx]

^

[stone garden]

I've done this dance, and I stay on its head.. I watch bad crocs go for the tail... bla bla blah... I've played Stego also, it just isn't balanced.. Stego can still kill the guy and get away before I apply enough damage to his head.

[sick ether]

the stego can still run away though

[stone garden]

It takes 3 deinos knowing what they are doing to drop a stego..

[golden coral]

No, I said that the multiplier is 1.5. Which means a stego does 1875 on deino head, which means it's 5 HTK. And deino has 6HTK, well, technically 7 but it's like, 6 hits is exactly 6K health, and any other bite on the stego after that will kill it, unless maybe you're biting the very tip of the tail.

[stone garden]

One lunges and staggers while two apply damage.

[sick ether]

yall talking like u win every single fight against every single stego and that its not a problem at all

[golden coral]

Which is also a very slow attack, and you use just alt bite to keep up, you move quite well with it. So any time the stego does that, you just move with alt bite, also making it so the stego can only hit you from "behind" at best, unless it tries to swing from the other direction, in which case you can again use alt to turn yourself around too.

[stone garden]

It also depends on diets which mostly crocs be having 25% max hp diet and stegos don't because their diet is in swamp for the hp buff, but they be sitting in nw for hours.

[somber sphinx]

It can take 1 it can take 2 it can take 3

[golden coral]

In a 1v1, sure, in a 2v1, no. At best that stego is not killing either of you, just running away. If it stays to fight, it will die, especially if it stays long enough to kill one of you.

[sick ether]

how many times have yall seen people complain about how op stegos are

vs how many times have u seen people complain about how op deinos are

[stone garden]

They will defend Stego till the end, they main them most likely.

[somber sphinx]

Too many but tbh it’s your own fault if you die to stegos

[stark knoll]

That diet doesn't buff your HP, it buffs your regen

[golden coral]

You don't need two deinos applying damage, you need one to stun it and one to apply damage.

[somber sphinx]

Lmao best defense

[golden coral]

A lot, because people don't understand what makes a playable OP, and deino mains cant handle the fact that they have one bad matchup :p Also carni bias ^^

[somber sphinx]

Yeah we defend one playable that means we main it

[golden coral]

Not much, because apparently omnis and carnos not being able to hunt deino is never a problem, only stego is. Its entirely stupid, but then that's how it goes xD

[sick ether]

that isnt stupid though xD

[golden coral]

Hilariously enough deino is overall far more OP than stego has ever been, a far superior playable in almost every way, but that's apparently fine, because well, cool carni and herbis should just eat grass and die

[sick ether]

its an 8 ton crocodile xD

[dusky surge]

STEGO MAIN ARGUMENT DEPLOYED

[sick ether]

YES deino is more op than stego, but thats just the devs fault for adding an insane animal

[somber sphinx]

Can’t die unless it wants to
Kills everything up to 4 tons With an unbalanced mechanic
Too many of them

[golden coral]

And stego is a 6T anti-flank playable. Yet people want carno and omni to hunt them just fine, but deino can somehow be fine being immune to even megapacks of carnos and omnis.

@sick etherMy point here was more so that people tend to argue that stego is op because omni/carno struggle with it, but Ive never seen the omni/carno players complain about deino being unhuntable, even when they go up on land and steal their food.

[sick ether]

not even anti flank, good luck getting to a stegos head without getting smacked still

[stone garden]

Yes thank you, but it still applies to HP regen so that adds to life total.

[sick ether]

thats realistic though

[golden coral]

I do yes, but I defend stego because stego is fine, simple as that.

[sick ether]

u aint gonna see a friggin group of lions or tigers kill a full grown adult crocodile even in modern age if it went and stole their food lmao

[golden coral]

@sick etherDon't get me wrong, Im not saying that omnis and carnos should hunt deinos, Im just taking issue with the fact no one minds theyre not hunting deino, but they mind if they cant hunt stego, who is almost as terrifying and powerful as deino.

[stone garden]

Ok, great I play everything equally and I've watched Stego completely dominate Deino's... This game is completely unbalanced.

[golden coral]

You don't generally see them kill elephants or hippos or rhinos either.

[sick ether]

a stego is way more powerful than a deino wdym

[golden coral]

Because bad deinos, simple as that. If theres any playables right now that have issues, its pachy and carno being way overtuned.

[somber sphinx]

Stegos dominating deinos?
Is there problem with that?

[sick ether]

well yes lmao

in water thats a massive yes

because it makes absolutely zero sense 🙂

[golden coral]

No it's not. Overall deino is far more powerful and the better playable. Sure, if you only look at raw "basic" damage, yes, but if you take the lunge into account, deino does 4K damage on an attack, way more than stego. You oneshot carnos and tenos if you hit them, while stego needs a headshot to oneshot them.

[sick ether]

tell me if im up at north west waterfall, and a group of 5 or 6 maybe even more stegos, are on both sides of the water, and i cant get food or anything

what am i supposed to do

[somber sphinx]

Both aren’t “in the water” technically, stegos mostly kill deinos in the riverbeds which is where they can stand

[golden coral]

I would blame your choice of spot honestly.

[somber sphinx]

Nop

[stone garden]

To be honest everyone defends everything, is Stego balanced vs it's counterpart which is suppose to be Deino, no it's not balanced.. But they should of never released Stego or Deino without having a equal apex..

[sick ether]

wdym nope their attack is literally way stronger and does way more damage xD

[somber sphinx]

Deino literally can’t die unless it wants to
It can 1 shot animals up to 4 tons with no counter play

[golden coral]

Consider your surroundings, plan alternative ways out, and maybe don't be in a spot where you know it's more dangerous than not. I can traverse the open plains as juvie stego, but obviously that is more risky than me staying in the forest line and taking the long route instead.

[sick ether]

thats bs to a degree.

[golden coral]

They're not supposed to be "counterparts" from what I know. deino does not punch up, it punches down.

[sick ether]

like i said, if im at northwest waterfall, where can i go? if im being camped

[somber sphinx]

Bs that deinos are that unbalanced yeah, literally the easiest playable to both play and grow

[latent bay]

You're at a waterfall as a semi aquatic. Isnt that your fault for being in an area actively disadvantageous to you?

[golden coral]

But I do agree, they should not have implemented deino and stego for now.

[somber sphinx]

Yeah definitely

[golden coral]

Go the other way. You can swim upstreams, wiggle into forest, or at the beginning of the river, and log if you need an out. Or traverse from that river to the other if you need and go down that one. Just swim underwater, be quiet, watch so the stegos aint following, and you'll get out.

[sick ether]

forget about the waterfall being there lol it practically does not matter, its about being in a river that you cant move out of because a whole group of kos stegos are camping you

[somber sphinx]

They aren’t supposed to be counterparts at all tho

[sick ether]

oh even though the stegos will just follow you, and dont even say you could go underwater cause theres no way some of those stegos would be all sitting in the exact same spot

[latent bay]

Deino's swim is faster than stego's sprint isnt it? Just hold W and shift in a direction. You'll take a few hits hut You'll get out of there

[sick ether]

they be spread out along the river and trying to catch you from trying to escape

[stone garden]

We've all watch Stegos come and drink water with 3-4 full grown Deino in the water then they 3 call them, they do it because they know Stego is stronger it don't matter, play what you like.

[sick ether]

lmao and do what? xD cross on land to the back river??

[somber sphinx]

Hell even lunge gets you a great distance when in the water

[golden coral]

If they're camping you, they're... kind of meant to be sitting in the same spot. And even if they do follow you, you can find some ways out most likely, or at least attempt it. Sure ,if there's a full group, you might be in trouble, but they can't guard everywhere at the same time. On top of that, pay some attention to when/if they show up and be prepared to run in the first place. Main point is, take it into account and plan and prepare accordingly.

[stone garden]

But to argue that 2 Deinos can kill a stego is a lie, so stop spreading misinformation, it takes 3 Deino's to kill 1 stego..

[golden coral]

And if you know it's almost impossible to get out from that spot, don't be there in the first place.

You're not by any means bound to live in a spot that isn't good for you, and that comes with dangers.

[latent bay]

I've seen duos maul stegos

[golden coral]

2 deinos can kill a stego, that's a fact. You're the one saying erroneous things claiming it takes 3 of them, when it does not.

[stone garden]

Bad Stego's yeah, like Erik said.. Bad Stego and Deinos are out their.

I've personally dropped 5 Deino's who rushed me before, your point?

[golden coral]

Same. It's very doable, especially if the stego doesn't immediately run, but if it does, well then its gone, no more camping or otherwise terrorising.

[sick ether]

but you really expect me to accept that im being camped that hard in a game without issue, and the best thing i can do is cross land when theyre not looking just to go into a different river that takes 30 minutes to swim till i see players again

[stone garden]

I'd laugh and kill 2 Deino's who tried to jump me. 🙂

[golden coral]

I am expecting you to play it like the survival game it is. Nothing more or less.

But sometimes, the only option is to run away, or just avoid a bad area.

[latent bay]

You clarified in your example you were already submerged, no? Just swim until the stegosaurs leave and then return to your area

[sick ether]

so now its a survival game, doesnt seem like the stego is doing much surviving is it, rather using its op kit and abusing it

[golden coral]

Like, if you're not a sufficiently large group, or otherwise powerful enough, you don't just roam the plains openly, because well, carnos will get you.

[slim dragon]

Deino players when they have one bad matchup in the entire roster :

[golden coral]

You can still go out there, but it's not ideal for you. Same applies to deino and some spots.

[sick ether]

but lets say the stegos legit do not leave, then what?

[stone garden]

You leave

[sick ether]

but if im at north west waterfall where am i supposed to go

[stone garden]

Camp, I've had 5 Stego's cmap NW before, either leave the area or swim away and camp.

[golden coral]

Just to be clear, I am not defending stegos camping deinos, like that. I am merely saying that it's not something you can not deal with, or otherwise take into account. No different from any playable "camping" or otherwise trying to ruin your day.

[latent bay]

Then that's player choice. You also clarified there were 5 to 6 of them, quite frankly you should be out matched in that situation

[sick ether]

cant go down the waterfall into the bigger rivers, because ill get caught and killed, cant go up the back behind sewer, because if theyre smart theyre gonna be there waiting and theyll catch u lackin

[golden coral]

Making it out as if you have to be at NW, you have to sit there and wait until the stegos "set up camp", you have to then just let them camp you, is just not true.

You can look at the waterfall, the envrionment, and go "This is not ideal, I could be caught here", and not be there

[sick ether]

thats where often times most stegos camp

[golden coral]

Just like I can look at the open plains and go "I am a slow stego juvie, I should not be out here"

Part of it does involve making decisions on where and how you play in the first place.

[stone garden]

They have nothing better to do, besides marigold to suck down.

[latent bay]

Your fault for being in a camping Hotspot then, I fail to understand the issue

[keen plover]

isn't that a map problem rather than stego

[stark knoll]

Spiro's rivers are narrow, shallow, and linear

[golden coral]

That too, but I still think its partially a bad decision from a player too. Remember the pond? :p

[stark knoll]

Doesn't do deinos much good

[sick ether]

then its a balancing problem

[keen plover]

lol

[sick ether]

thats a good point, but deinos excel in water, theyre supposed to, its bs that a group of stegos can completely flip that around

[golden coral]

They are, but you can still make your escape from most places. Some being worse, is not ideal, but I still think it has to be somewhat down to the player recognizing a bad spot as well.

[stone garden]

It's actually a apex problem, each side should have one.. So it's a Dev problem. 😛

[somber sphinx]

Deino technically isn’t an apex

[stone garden]

I never said it was?

[slim dragon]

Neither is stego :P

[keen plover]

There's another river at NW (west from the Spawn point) that you can head to, that requires minimal land crossing

[thin bough]

Ur technically incorrect

[keen plover]

Stegos barely ever go there

[somber sphinx]

Currently it is yeah but the devs don’t see it as one and later on it will get flipped by true apexes

[golden coral]

And in general they do. There being a few worse spots does not negate that. Most of the river, especially around center, and so on, is pretty fine, with the other rivers having some minor shallow spots you can "run the gauntlet" on if you have to. NW waterfall being a "locked" area because well, waterfall forcing you to go on land to move on, and there not being much of use the other direction, doesn't negate the rest of the rivers or deinos abilities overall. And if you do see the stegos in time, you can do what I suggested, dive, make your way slowly up the river, and cross into the other one, its close enough you can do that, and then go down that one for a bit.

[keen plover]

Kissen called Stego an Apex recently

[golden coral]

Unfortunately :(

[somber sphinx]

Guess stegos will run from rex, exited to see that happen

[slim dragon]

It will survive I think

[golden coral]

Yeah, but as long as they can survive, I'll have to be happy :D

[keen plover]

#isle-discussion message 2nd last sentence

[stone garden]

This game has a balance problem, people are always going to swarm to the greater apex..

[somber sphinx]

Magy and allo matchup but 100 times worse

[stone garden]

I'm having a terrific time smashing Carno's as a Pachy.

[slim dragon]

Stego will need a serious buff when rex comes in tho

[somber sphinx]

[somber sphinx]

Weight buff and maybe a little dmg buff plz

[golden coral]

Just make it a bit faster and it'll be fine, silly as I find that but still, it works I guess

[keen plover]

Damage is fine imo. That's the least it has to worry about.

[slim dragon]

I think a new attack, either a walking attack or a CCing uppercut would work

[sick ether]

tbh i think a deino is fairly balanced with stego in legit any other part of the map, so yeah, maybe it is a map issue, particularly up at north west, because that is the main pvp area and where you will find the most deinos and stegos

[somber sphinx]

Yeah probably

[somber sphinx]

Definitely but I also kinda want a size buff for it, 7 tons plz

[sick ether]

because yes, u can just retreat, deino only dies if it chooses to, but up at north west if ur there and being camped by stegos then theres nothing you can do but sit there and be camped, which is the bs part.

[slim dragon]

It's running animation would be even more ridiculous if it was larger

[somber sphinx]

Good, so let it get a good one

[stone garden]

MY only disagreement with current dinosaurs is nothing can really touch Stego besides Stego, so I have to be a Stego to kill Stegos I miss the day when 7-8 Omniraptors smashed Stegos. 😦

[keen plover]

(Why not go to the river behind the drain)

[slim dragon]

Oh, back when omniraptor was ridiculously OP and left no chance to its prey ?
Yeah that was great

[somber sphinx]

Loved that

[slim dragon]

Also bring back carnos killing stegos by biting their thagomizers plz

[somber sphinx]

Nothing touches deino either except other deinos

[keen plover]

Interesting discussion.... 😄

[stone garden]

Yeah, but everyone is either a Stego or Deino, makes the map feel empty.

[slim dragon]

There's a lot more deinos than stegos

[stone garden]

I mean their are fights out there, just you have to look and punt kick babies while you wait.

[keen plover]

Most servers from my experience go Deino > Carno > Pachy > Stego

[stone garden]

I just hate the whole argument about people trying to justify Deino Vs Stego, when Stego is a land animal and Deino is aquatic.. Give Stego a land Apex to fight and give me a Titan Boa to fight the Deino. 😈

[slim dragon]

Titanoboa would be absolute fodder to a deino

It's, like, 2 tons max

[somber sphinx]

If you want something to fight deino then it would be best to add sucho..not boa

[stone garden]

Problem IS when they add larger Apex's no one will use the smaller niche dinosaurs because they don't understand balance.

[slim dragon]

The only planned things that could contest a deino in the water are spino and cheirus

[stone garden]

Titan Boa

[somber sphinx]

Which would get demolished by deino either way

[somber sphinx]

Tbh I kinda hate the whole “deino swims away from spino no matter what” makes it really boring for what could be an interesting water matchup

[slim dragon]

True
On the other hand I hate deino so I would be happy to see it getting utterly destroyed by something

[somber sphinx]

Same

[dusky surge]

titanoboa vs deino lol

[slim dragon]

noodle

[dusky surge]

aka spaghetti noodle vs literally anything

[stone garden]

Listen Titan boa, just because it was advertised like that and it sounds fun.. Deal with scrub.

[bright oasis]

Pool noodle vs woodchipper

[dusky surge]

lmao true

i wish i could join in but im still blocked because "troodon venom doesn't stack"

[somber sphinx]

Lol

[slim dragon]

I just googled what a woodchipper is
100% accurate

[slim dragon]

https://tenor.com/view/gmod-isle-the-isle-gmod-gif-25129033

[dusky surge]

did you not know what a woodchipper was all this time

[slim dragon]

In my country we call them "broyeur de branches"

[dusky surge]

i see

[somber sphinx]

Listen, Albertosaurus. It would also curb stomp titananonionoboa

[dusky surge]

titananananoboasaurus

[slim dragon]

Honestly
A cerato might stand a good chance against a titanoboa

[somber sphinx]

Pretty much would yeah

[slim dragon]

Or even a solo omni
What's the boa gonna do ? Buck ?

[somber sphinx]

Totinobonitiiboerse

[stone garden]

https://youtu.be/TSHIlEfD0J4

[slim dragon]

[bright oasis]

The animal with a 2 foot head and a 40 foot body is not gonna have a good time, period, anywhere on the island with any animal in the roster. Especially with how good the movement system is for everything.

[golden coral]

Just because it was "advertised" and hyped by a youtuber, doesnt mean itd work out like that in game. On top of that, itd be AI only most likely, if they can even make the snake work properly and look good and all. And while it would be hilarious to see deinos deal with something like their own lunge, Im not sure it'd work out that well.

[somber sphinx]

https://tenor.com/view/cute-snek-snake-gif-11589480

[slim dragon]

Unless it's arboreal

[golden coral]

Arboreal fictional titanoboa would be so cool, but that's never gonna happen xD

[somber sphinx]

Couldn’t find the gif I wanted

[slim dragon]

Eeeeeeeeh
They just need to steal Snake Pass' entire code (also different engine but it doesn't matter)

[dusky surge]

stunning evidence

[somber sphinx]

Old + boa might not get added

Also stunning evidence

[stone garden]

Not saying its accuracy in history because all of you cry realism when it's convenient for the argument then cry balance when it's not.

[bright oasis]

Both realism and balance are important together.

[stone garden]

It's not accurate, titan ate mostly fish and smaller types of crocodilians.

Sorry blocked person, I don't know what you are saying nor do I care. 🙂

[slim dragon]

There's realism and there's believability

[bright oasis]

blocking someone because of a disagreement about dinosaurs in a game

[somber sphinx]

Lol

[bright oasis]

If I blocked everyone who I didnt agree with I'd have a huge list

[somber sphinx]

I’d be alone in the server

[bright oasis]

Fr same lmao

[dusky surge]

welcome

welcome to the "blocked over random argument with t3k" club

[bright oasis]

Dont think I'm there yet lol

[dawn falcon]

Wow

People unironically downvoted the walking/trotting tailswing for stego

[dusky surge]

stego hatred

[thin bough]

It’s almost as if Trex isn’t even in the game yet and we won’t know it’s stats and how balanced a moving tail swing would be against a Trex 💀

[golden coral]

I don't think even a moving tail jab will save current stego vs rex anyway xD

[somber sphinx]

(It won’t)

[obtuse ocean]

Well is that not bad balance? If stego needs that only for rex. Imagine stego doing that now, it would might be to good

[dawn falcon]

That’s literally not what the feedback was about

[thin mantle]

Stego isn’t allowed to be a fun viable playable ig

[dawn falcon]

It literally stated in the text, when trex is introduced, not now

[dawn falcon]

Fun is not allowed in balance feedback

[thin mantle]

Stego is so hard carried by spiros terrain that I genuinely think that if you gave it a moving swing and had it fight 8 omnis without cover it’d lose badly

Frontal pounces and dismounts are still safe

[dawn falcon]

Yeah.

The only thing that’s keeping stegos alive are 1 degree higher hills 💀

Without that, Omnis can actually deal some damage

Part of me thinks “toxic” while part of me also thinks it’s genius, since it makes it so you have to learn the topography of the map and use it against others, which adds a bit of skill

[thin mantle]

It’s also not a bad thing for the one animal with a combat style that directly counters pounce specifically to basically become immune to them via terrain

Defensive slow animals in survival games tend to necessitate balance like that

[hollow canyon]

I genuinely don't understand why anyone would make a video about a topic they know nothing about.

[dusky surge]

isle youtuber

[hollow canyon]

ah

[stone garden]

No ideal, but it's out there!

[hollow canyon]

calling that "not ideal" is being extremely generous, I listened to the first minute and half and it was an enormous pile of nonsense

[keen plover]

I like the idea of a cooldown in-between grabs. Nothing is more torturous than a deino player that grabs you, drags you deep in water, bites & repeats

[golden coral]

@vale echoIt has been confirmed that they are aware of the issue and will fix it.

[vale echo]

oh thank you for reply.

[sterile valley]

@limber elbow it happens when you charge a deino too

[eager saddle]

@quiet hearth While I do really like the suggestion you made (I personally want stegos to at least be vulnerable near their head) it would not work with how their top predator (the deino) currently plays. Deinos currently fight stegos with at least two people and forcing the stego into a tug of war gives the second deino too much time to bite it without consequences.

Then again, it’d encourage stego packs too but I don’t think solo playstyle should be punished that hard

[thin mantle]

Encouraging grouping for apex tier creatures is almost inherently toxic for the game tbh

Also tug of war mechanics are almost impossible to make both fun and skill expressive to engage with when it comes to these two animals

You’re just comparing who has more stats, QTE’s are also just….bad

[quiet hearth]

Cheers! I never thought about that, as I always stay away from Deino groups, I've seen a stego group but it's rare (for me). All the encounteres I've had have either been 1-1 or I'm trying to take a baby from the adult.

Do you feel that way for both options?

[quiet hearth]

I'm pictured it happening more like the buck and struggle animations at the moment.

[thin mantle]

Yeah it's just a stat comparison

[eager saddle]

Yeah, as someone who mains deino and has seen a LOT of deino groups fight 1 stego, I don’t think it would ever work positively for the stego

[thin mantle]

It's also just a reeeeeally dumb matchup

Stego borderline exists in the game specifically to control deinos

we can't have a deino favored matchup in the environment the game is currently in

[quiet hearth]

I thought Deino conrollled Deinos 😛
I know what you mean and I agree but Stegos can be pretty unchecked.

[eager saddle]

Exactly

[quiet hearth]

That's true

[thin mantle]

they don't, deinos don't control land deinos, stegos are what keep deinos in the rivers, the high water consumption rate helps but it also bottlenecks deinos gameplay through an arbitrary stat weakness that doesn't coalesce with future plans for droughts where deinos are going to need to migrate on land to a limited degree

[thin mantle]

Stegos are sorta totally fine being unchecked, they're the least oppressive creature in the game bar hypsi and dryo

Like the game will always have it's stegos, there will always be a few creatures that are just walking walls

Anky, shant, Brachi, Diplo, Bronto...etc

At least it's a herbi and not a carni

[quiet hearth]

Oh, droughts sounds absolutely awesome! I didn't think of them that way, I just see them as the blocker between me and a teno or whatever they're protecting. I know things will change when we see different land Carnis etc I was more thinking of an interesting mechanice now. A Stego can 4 shot an adult Deino but it's impossible for Deino to kill an adult stego.

From your point of view, do you think that's reasonable or really just a matter of Stego shining at the moment?

[thin mantle]

Well first of all the way you communicate is incredibly polite, very nice to talk to so thanks for that!

So I can answer that in two ways:
1: Stego can actually be killed solo by deino atm, lunge cycling while following their turn pattern as they try to attack you will almost always prevent headshots from the stego, ensure headshots FOR the deino, while stunning them...you just need to outplay them...the only counterplay for this is the stego running, then hitting, then running, then hitting, while you chase it, which basically means you've already succeeded in making the stego run for it's life.

2: Even if stego was immune to being soloed, that'd be fine, stego can't eat bodies it steals, stego can't ambush literally any player who's worth their wits, stego needs to stop moving in order to attack and can only do so from an attack mounted on the back of the animal, they absolutely suck in groups since friendly fire is incredibly easy to commit, and they have an incredibly vulnerable juvi phase. Deino is the inverse of literally every single one of these weaknesses, it's stealthy to the point of effective invisibility, every player on the map is required to at the very least approach and interact with the biome that facilitates their oneshot (which can't be dodged) once every 20-40 minutes, they can both move while attack and have front mounted attacks, meaning they can very easily "chase" despite being slow, they have the highest bleed resistance and heal rate in the game on top of having 2k more hp than stego, and have the strongest juvi and sub adult phases in the game currently, as a deino you literally cannot die unless you eroniously trust others of your own species, or sit on land waiting for a stego to kill you...

So of the two I'd absolutely take stego to be the stronger of the two

If anything deino is and has always been too strong, needs water clarity levels to properly balance it

Like in the grander scheme of the roster, deino can instakill around 60ish% of the completed roster from functional invisibility in a position all players necessarily need to visit....

[quiet hearth]

Thanks! I see a lot of toxicity on reddit around this game and all I see it do is hinder progressive discussion to better the game we all love to play so I do my part.

Regarding your points It's now obvious that it's a learning curve I haven't fully gotten on top of and that it just takes practice.
You make an excellent point about both Stego and Deinos place in the world too. Good to have the chat and see the different perspective!

[dusky surge]

A adult, polite conversation between two individuals of differing viewpoints in #balance-feedback-discussion? Why I never thought I'd see the day

This was wonderful btw

[thin mantle]

A rare sight but quite a nice occasion

[obtuse ocean]

I played a afwull games yesterday, called pot. And its a very very small sound if a croc is in the water. You can actually hear it if you pay attention, it could been a solution.

[thin mantle]

I don't like audio being the solution for that when water sources already have so much audio clutter

[obtuse ocean]

True more clutter in the isle, but i dont want to take a quick look at the water and see no "shadow" and im safe. It needs to go both ways, if i dont pay attention thats on me

[thin mantle]

Paying attention should be visual regardless, deino's hunting method isn't skill expressive enough to warrant being fair on it's end

It should always be prey favored

[obtuse ocean]

U remember that bug or whatever when u saw the shadow of the croc. Not once was afraid of beeing grabben. It was so easy to see a croc

[thin mantle]

Yep

I'm honestly quite neutral to that bug, lunge is such a contradictory ability to the games genre that I honestly don't care if it's easily countered

If we wanna make drinking scary it should come in a form of danger you can actually engage with

You don't engage with lunge, you drink from a spot they literally can't access, you die, or they comically miss you

I didn't like that the bug existed but it was the most interesting thing to happen to deino in awhile

[obtuse ocean]

Would be horrible to play croc if its that easy to see, i do agree that it needs to be somewhat countered if paying attention. But a running down with just taking a 0,5 sec look and your good to drink is to easy. But scary it should, just like walking in a dense area knowing that something can ambush you from a bush. You more or less have zero chance of seeing someone sitting in a bush if you come running without any care of paying attention.

[hasty coyote]

I'd say make it vision related like this: #general-feedback message. If a deino is dumb and trying to chase you through the water, you're gonna see it. If its just lurking at the exact spot you're drinking and is perfectly hidden, then it gets a the kill.

[obtuse ocean]

Sounds extremly boring. And what about all the other aquatics? Everyone gonna swim around with a "shadow" over them? Its still gonna be hunting/chasing/ambush/escape in the water to. I would rather not be seen while swimming away or stalking : P

Oww, i didnt read the suggestion. I will now tho

[hasty coyote]

Most the other aquatics are either small or don't go to the depths often, so I'd assume this type of change won' affect them much. The ripples I was suggesting were like the water movement stuff from 3.5, though expanded upon. You wouldn't make massive waves for creeping along the bottom of the water in a massive river, but if you're sprinting just under surface, you're gonna make a splash.

Essentially, you can't just follow someone across the while river then lunge them when they go to drink, you have to be a lot more planning to know where people like to drink and where you can hide.

[obtuse ocean]

Not a bad suggestion at all, but would this not promote huge "hotspots" for crocs?

[hasty coyote]

if a bunch of crocs go there, then people won't drink there will they?

[obtuse ocean]

No, crocs will go where the hotspots are on land neways so : P

[hasty coyote]

Plus, if anything, it promotes competition since you don't want like 6 crocs all camping your lake and ruining the perfect ambush spot. If I had a good spot, I'd kill any crocs who tried to use it with me.

[obtuse ocean]

This goes both ways, and i like that. You should need to use patience and understanding for getting a grab.

[hasty coyote]

thats partially because they're easy to sustain as well, like 1 deino body can fill like 4 up to full, which is kinda insane if you ask me

[obtuse ocean]

yea, 100% agree

[hasty coyote]

If deino needed more food to fill up, and had a change like this, you would see a lot less adult deinos. Those you do see would surprise you a lot.

[obtuse ocean]

Totally agree, food should be hard. A pack of 3 should be hard to substain

[thin mantle]

Then play cover to obscure your body in clearer water, maybe wait until you think they might be typing in chat, a myriad of things can be done that actually make playing croc better than it is now.

I also find current lunge unbearably boring and unrewarding because whenever I successfully lunge I know that that success had nothing to do with my own skill, I pressed the win button, so I won.

Also I’m fine making one playable less fun to play if it means the 60% of the roster that they render non viable can play the game

Like I can’t stress enough how low priority it is that deino makes consistent kills….it’s an ambush predator with zero weaknesses it should not have a high kill rate

If it’s going to stay being fun to play (which I don’t even think it is but that’s a different point all-together) whilst also being good for the game it needs a drastic overhaul in the depth of its mechanics and the ability to actually engage with it

[dusky surge]

@lone flax The omni bleed hasn't been removed or changed in many updates idk what you're talking about

[alpine plover]

Night time camo skins makes everyone run one type of skin. No point in running anything else because you will be at a disadvantage.

[tall bronze]

It's definitely odd since it seems less like actual camouflage and more like "exploiting" how NV renders textures. Certain colors just seem to....mush together I guess. It's weird.

Then you have anything lighter colored (God forbid white) that just turn into low-detail beacons

Humans in NV for example look awful because of their skin

[delicate jacinth]

Do the devs ever read these? Ive seen countless messages on carno ram hit box and the rate they can spam it and how no one likes it but ive heard nothing on it being changed. plus its not like its a new problem this absurd balance has been a problem since update 6. Maybe there is news of change and im just blind and deaf but would like to know if anything smaller then carno could play the game anytime soon.

[slim dragon]

They do read the feedback channels and the carno ram hitbox has been fixed for the next update

[delicate jacinth]

https://tenor.com/view/goodnews-finally-gordon-ramsey-gif-21284628

[hollow canyon]

it's been fixed ages ago

it's just on the QA/ST build

aka the next update

[alpine plover]

Well I guess everyone wants to run the same skin. It’s good to hear the community likes night time camo skins.

[dusky surge]

i dont get the love for them either lol

who wants meta character customisation lol

[alpine plover]

Whatever advantage people get, they will use it. 🤷‍♂️

[dusky surge]

so lame tho lol

[slim dragon]

I don't get how you would remove camouflage skins without forcing everyone to have neon-bright skins...

Also camouflage skins wouldn't be as bad if the map wasn't entirely green, because then one skin couldn't allow you to be invisible anywhere

[hollow canyon]

Idc, I always used camouflage skins in all those games

that moment when in legacy a whole pack of Rexes of all sizes walks past you cause they can't see you because of your skin

good stuff

most people chose dumb black and white skins anyways

[alpine plover]

We are talking about Night time camouflage that blends in with your NV. It’s not environment based.

[slim dragon]

It's bbased on current NV, which is not great either

[alpine plover]

Yeah I understand. This just is bonkers from my perspective. It’s a raptor in this picture.

[distant torrent]

agreed. if someone wants to run camouflage, they should be 100% able to, especially in the time where megapacks of carnos with their busted hitboxes roam around center, nw, and lemon to kill everything in sight

[strange dust]

and lemon?

lemon fields/road? isn't that technically part of center?

[tall bronze]

It's hard to describe, but that just seems less like actual camouflage and more like the NV shader just rendering certain colors weird. They have this weird blurry mushy effect that allows for stuff like this. It's odd.

[alpine plover]

I agree. I don’t think it was intentional.

[distant torrent]

I personally don’t consider it to be apart of center. it varies depending on who you talk to

[strange dust]

that's fair

[dusky surge]

@echo swift fixed next update

[hollow canyon]

it's been fixed for ages, just not on the livebuild, honestly last update probably should've been delayed to fix this and some of the absurd power spikes taking place around the subadult growth stages but oh well

[manic owl]

What’s a hotfix for 500 Alex

[dusky surge]

What?

[thin mantle]

@zealous void If you returned Carno vs Omni to Update 5s balance Omni would be consistently soloing Carnos…the game was horribly balanced, Omni could negate every advantage Carno had, it could pounce through all of its attacks to both negate them and land pounces, it could bleed Carno out in 1-2 pounces, and Carno couldn’t escape Omni because tracking was both much stronger than it is now, and Omnis stamina economy ensured it almost always had enough stam to chase the Carno down and finish it off…

It could do all of this alone….Omnis literal only predator in the completed roster could be soloed by one of its most ideal prey items even in the open plains…..
That was bad, it’s best we focus on the actual issues with this update rather than deleting all the balancing progress U6 made. Because genuinely Omnis only balancing problem is charges oversized hitbox and possibly some balancing issues with Carno subadults, but none of its issues are on its end.

[dawn falcon]

https://tenor.com/view/kronk-point-debate-argument-angel-gif-17274775

[zealous void]

I played carno during update 5. Didn’t get soloed. The charge still made 1v1 favour the carno unless it was completely brain dead, plus trees worked to combat the pounce. The utahs were mostly dangerous in groups, and even then some disorganized groups still got wiped. It’s always gonna be harder to coordinate with more people, so ambush was a viable tactic. Plus, a carno could escape utahs by crossing a river or leaving a trail that wasn’t a perfect straight line. Now the matchup is so hilariously one sided that it’s taken all the thought out of combat.

[thin mantle]

Well for one, it being hilariously onesided is intended….Carno is literally Omnis only predator, and if you’re in the plains you’re in the only biome where it’s a threat to you, pack wiping alone should be doable.
You should not be facing carnos as Omnis literally at all if you’re in the open plains, and if you’re in the forest have at least 2, I don’t see that as a problem…

In reference to update 5, you could directly counter a charging Carno but either taking 2 steps to the left or right, or directly charging the Carno head on, I’m not kidding it worked consistently.
Carnos stam economy compared to Omnis also ensured that a Carno would literally never escape Omnis unless the Omnis decided not to chase, tracking was much much stronger, 1-2 pounces was enough to kill said Carno already, and Omnis stam regen more than made up for the distance covered by carnos higher speed…I can’t even count the amount of carnos I soloed in update 5 it was so bad…if they tried to charge or go in for a bite, pounce them and they get negged.

The only problem with the Carno Omni matchup now is charged hitbox, in forests they’re still helpless, even moreso than before

[keen plover]

Update 5 Carno wasn’t that bad tbf. It’s just that update 5 Omni was too good.

Update 5 Omni shouldn’t come back though

[dusky surge]

Update 5 carno was pretty bad tbh tho, certainly not as good as it should've been (but I'd say all carnos with the old charge were bad)

[dusky surge]

Also did you say a CARNO could escape OMNI by crossing a river?

The same carno with the worst swimming stam and second worst swimming speed in the game vs the animal with superior speed and stamina in the water AND a jump to clear the water?

What?

[keen plover]

Magnet pounce, quick recovery on missed pounce, massive stamina drain while bucking, juvis throwing themselves at adults. I swear I’m still missing some stuff

It wasn’t fun to fight at all

And since they’re easy to feed and grow, players would just throw themselves at you

[thin mantle]

Auto counter all attacks with pounce, that goes beyond magnet pounce that's just.....meliodas

https://tenor.com/view/meliodas-full-counter-seven-deadly-sins-gif-15056751

[regal goblet]

Pretty sure this is still a thing but it's not as bad, but face pouncing.. shivers in bad memories and slight annoyance.

[twilit juniper]

Isn’t face and tail pouncing still a thing though? Aka magnet pounce 💀

[keen plover]

Magnet pounce doesn’t seem to exist. At least not in the same fashion as update 5

[keen plover]

Omni’s willingly taking damage to get a pounce off since they could tank a hit smh

[thin mantle]

It's still awful

[regal goblet]

I wouldn't know don't play raptor that much since U6.5

6*

[zealous void]

A single carno should be able to beat a single Utah, but forcing packs to stay in forests just to survive is ridiculous. It’s annoying to have to play with leaves in your face 100% of the time, which is why 90% of a servers population is generally in the open unless they’re fresh spawns. Also, a group of 5 adult utahs is over 5 hours of collective grow time. That’s quite a bit more than a carno, so I don’t think it’s particularly balanced for one to solo the group. Mud also worked to counter tracking, and while the stamina debuffs were a bit extreme the carno should have less stamina than the Utah so the latter has any chance of escaping if it’s caught on its own. Plus, the new tracking would make getting run down harder, solving that problem.

[zealous void]

Shallow areas disguise footprints, you could get far enough ahead with the better speed.

[dusky surge]

This comes down a good deal to Spiro being kinda terrible, with WAYYY too massive plains and oppressively difficult to navigate forests

I'm also not a fan of saying "this takes collectively longer to grow so it should win". It should also come down to niche and capability. Omni and pachy take around the same time to grow, yet it makes perfect sense for pachy to utterly humiliate omni

[thin mantle]

Spiro issue, not an omni issue

You also curbstomp carno in any biome with clutter

Just seems reductive to give omni a fair matchup outside of larger packs against literally the only animal capable of pressuring it in the one biome it's effective

[dusky surge]

same as how pachy can pressure carno, which is another issue

[thin mantle]

Mhm

[dusky surge]

i hope with U6.5, teno and cera can take the place of "carno threats" in the ecosystem, not this 500kg dome-headed bastard

[thin mantle]

Can't wait for teno to be playable at some point

Just waiting

[dusky surge]

Why must pachy destroy all that is good about the ecosystem

I do think carno should be hunting down omnis and pachys, ceras and tenos acting as foes that actually can humble them and slim down their numbers

[thin mantle]

Because the community at large simply isn't allowed to have a comprehensive perspective of the roster...something always needs to get victimized so the infighting will continue

Last update it was carno, now it's omni

And somehow always deino tho that one will always confuse me

The existence of limits....baffles them, for the most part

[dusky surge]

Deino refuses to have limits

Stego being a limit is a problem

[thin mantle]

A singular matchup not in demonstrable favor is a sin

[zealous void]

I dunno, thenyaw was mostly forest and all the action still went down in the few open areas. Plus, trees knock pouncing utahs off so having them hunt in forests makes their main ability effectively useless

[dusky surge]

Thenyaw isn't even remotely comparable

[thin mantle]

That's because legacy's movement system made trees into deathtraps....odd comparison

Like if you were fighting on even a minorly sloped piece of terrain in legacy you were trolling

[dusky surge]

Thenyaw is a legacy map with tiny itty bitty trees that provide quite minimal cover

Spiro's jungles are dense and large, spanning wide and act almost like a labyrinth you can't navigate once you enter

[zealous void]

Also having only two land carnivores and having one of them hard counter the other means there will be a massive overpopulation of carnos

[thin mantle]

Which is why we need more playables....omni doesn't need to be buffed ridiculously to counterbalance an animal it shouldn't be comparable to

Hence why we're getting 2 carnis and 2 omnivores next update

[zealous void]

It was also the same with V3. People like being able to see what’s going on

[thin mantle]

What do legacy maps have to do with evrima maps

[dusky surge]

V3 was also a terrible map funnily enough, but that's another discussion

Cera is planned to be the PROPER counterbalance to carno, so omni can stick to being its prey and not step on the toes of its clear predator

[thin mantle]

Even tho teno normally functions for that role as well

[zealous void]

Because open areas have been hotspots on literally every map

[thin mantle]

Teno just sucks rn

[thin mantle]

That's indicative of the less open parts of the map being poorly designed...if we designed maps the way player congregation would suggest trees and bushes just wouldn't exist

[dusky surge]

Even Spiro's open parts suck

[thin mantle]

Indeed they do

Despite being "open plains" they aren't even that

[zealous void]

If Utah is hard countered by patchy, carno and teno it’s not much more than a juvi killer

[dusky surge]

Bushes and trees chucked around for no good reason

[thin mantle]

Teno doesn't hard counter omni, 3 is enough to take one down on average

[zealous void]

That’s fair. I’m not saying it’s impossible to make good forests, but with the current map forcing utahs into them is unbearable

[dusky surge]

Galli, dryo, troodon, beipi, ptera are all going to be pretty good prey items for it when U6.5 comes, that's a decent roster of viable meals. And that's only solo omni.

Groups will be equipped to handle tenontos and even stegos.

[thin mantle]

Omni is also probably gonna be great against galli, beipi, and troodon

[thin mantle]

Mhm, just a condition of playing an open beta on a map that's already been abandoned. Gateway doesn't really have these issues

[dusky surge]

It's still weird that omni CAN deal so well with stego (and slightly worrying) but whatever

[thin mantle]

Oh without cover stego is food

[dusky surge]

God imagine Trike against 4 omnis. Bad time

[thin mantle]

Despite how strong people think it is it's by far the most terrain reliant playable we have

[thin mantle]

Or just 2, use current facial pouncing strategies in reverse on trike.....gg

Unless trike is just pirouetting through the open plains like a damn bayblade

[zealous void]

If they want them to work in trees though they should definitely remove the tree pouncing interaction

[dusky surge]

I mean, just tap pounce

[thin mantle]

That's apart of the challenge

You can play around that

[distant torrent]

@upper temple hitboxes are getting fixed this upcoming update and apparently spiro (the current map) is to blame for the fps, so I’m pretty sure fps will be fine once the new map releases in update 7 (hopefully it’s coming in 7)

[uncut trellis]

Pretty sure it was confirmed for update 7 yea

[upper temple]

Epic!

[dusky surge]

Hard cooldowns my beloved lol

Also did this dude just suggest a hard nerf to omni

Can't control when you dismount, hard cooldown on pounce, so on? Stegos could literally always be able to slap you as you dismount via prediction and timing

[slim dragon]

No because Omni is always safe when it dismounts (invulnerability frames I guess)

[dusky surge]

im actually surprised that we wanted omni buffed so bad we went full circle to nerfing it

and not just nerfing it, but making it literally garbage

[obtuse ocean]

Yea, but still after all the buffs omni got, They wanted more, i was shocked to see that : P Not sure if im gonna upvote a omni buff again lol

[distant torrent]

@alpine nest my only problem with your suggestion is the part about making adults faster than the subs. subs should have a chance to get away from adults so they’re not free food (except apexes. I desire for apexes such as rex to have the most miserable time growing and to have all of the odds stacked up against them when they’re young), but subs definitely do need adult stamina so they’re not impossible to catch. otherwise, great suggestion in my eyes

[dusky surge]

Stam buff needs to wear off at around 50%

[distant torrent]

agreed

[slim dragon]

Stam buff needs to not be infinite

[alpine nest]

yes subs should be a bit faster than adults but not that much as they are rn. they should have a chance of getting away from adults but they also shouldn't be uncatchable. also the speed buff should not make pachy faster than an omni. now a sub pachy can just outrun an omni becouse its not only faster, it have also more stam and if it have friends, the omni is fu**ed becouse it have no way to escape

[sterile valley]

@regal goblet I agree, it is quite overpowered, and I think you should still be able to swing underwater, but slower like you said, and it should take a bit more stamina

[regal goblet]

Exactly! Stegos should still be able to swing underwater but it should come with some added challenges. That way stego actually has to think about the fights it picks when it comes to the water XD

[sterile valley]

Yes! The stegos should have a weakness!

[regal goblet]

Yes force the stego players to think lmao

[golden coral]

If a stego is that deep into water, and there's two deinos, that stego dies. So you know, it's already a terrible idea for a stego to try and do that.

[regal goblet]

Yet I've seen plenty of stegos do it, and have watched many many times as the stego wins.

Either because the deinos lack experience, or the stego has a friend. Plus this is people we are talking about playing the dinos. Just because it's a "terrible" idea to most doesn't mean no one's gonna do it.

[thin mantle]

Well....yeah that's just gaming

You don't balance around tactics that have players actively killing themselves

We can't define stego "fishing" as a problem when the entirety of the issue is solved by moving slightly to the left or right...or by just killing the stego

deino already has such a baffling amount of immunity to danger that the idea of giving them even MORE security is just bizarre to me

[obtuse ocean]

"fishing" Is not gonna be a problem, and never have. You can just leave, its just been a thing the last two years since we have gotten no more playables. If spino was in , stego would prob not be fishing

[thin mantle]

Deino fishing has always just been such a meme issue

Especially now with gateway river depth and width

[dusky surge]

its a fish complaining that they got caught after biting down on a hook with no bait, essentially

[thin mantle]

Perfectly said

[alpine nest]

@slender gazelle can you tell me what you usually do after you spawned?

[slender gazelle]

Die within 10 seconds

[alpine nest]

Thats not what i mean
Are you calling or running to the nex corps?

[unique mortar]

in my experience its usually

People giving 6 suggestions in one statement make it hard to give feedback with reactions if some seems more reasonable than the rest

[dusky surge]

@polar vine when, exactly, was cera confirmed to drain stam?

[polar vine]

maybe its my bad sry

i dont rly remember xd

[somber sphinx]

@polar vine don’t think the devs have ever mentioned that the septic bite ever drains stam, it’s from what I’ve read or seen just makes you throw up + it’s septic bite is for defensive purposes not offensive to hunt with

[polar vine]

ahh right my bad yeah, sorry

[somber sphinx]

• deinos can’t throw up so good luck making that sick

[polar vine]

well yeah

thanks for correcting me tho

[thin mantle]

Septic bite causes vomiting which reduces stam

[slim dragon]

@terse harness For deino and stego fights to be more realistic they would both need to one-shot each other

[terse harness]

Yes that too but it would be too realistic and make it unfun i think

So maybe like something inbetween

[slim dragon]

Something in-between is what we have now

[dusky surge]

@crimson echo it is

[crimson echo]

I know

I meant even more sensitive

[dusky surge]

no

[crimson echo]

A Stego should not be tanking as many headshots from Deino as it currently is

[slim dragon]

A deino should not be tanking as many headshots from stego as it currently is

[bright oasis]

Make everything 1 shot everything so it's all fair all around

[frail bobcat]

gonna have a field day as a ptera

[thin mantle]

I still find it funny that there’s always a cognitive dissonance whenever realism rears it’s ugly head when someone feels as tho their playable is persecuted…

It’s so consistent to

It makes no sense that X playable can survive SO many hits against my playable

When that sword is double edged

I can’t wait to see ptera argued for in that way at some point in time so I can mention that the mere action of pecking would trebuchet the ptera directly into the ground

[tall bronze]

Make it's head tinier.

Not to change anything.....it just looks funnier 🤏 🥜🧠

[tired urchin]

Make em tank the same amount. Can't argue steg takes more hits.

[thin mantle]

They shouldn't even be equal combatants

Unless the stego is swimming it should win

[tall bronze]

I do hope they allow weight to be reduced in water one day. I know right now, that'd just make your health get lowered any time you swim.....but it'd make sense as a separate system.

Like Deino can't grab a Stego.....but a swimming Stego, yes. Sadly, either biting one to death or grabbing it are both very uh.....boring.

[thin mantle]

I still think that'd be lame

Even if both are awful biting is at least slightly better

[tall bronze]

Mmhm. Biting at least requires more than holding a button knowing you're going to win.

[gleaming karma]

Carno: 1,850 hp, 200 bite dmg, 250 charge dmg
deino: 6,550 hp, 600 bite dmg
dryo: 150 hp, 25 bite
hypsi: 25 hp, 5 bite dmg
pachy: 600 hp, 25 bite dmg, 170 max ram dmg, 80 headswing damage
ptera: 85 hp, 15 bite dmg
Stego: 4,250 hp, 40 bite dmg, 1300 tail swing dmg
Tenonto: 1,650 hp, 30 bite dmg, 125 claw dmg, 200 kick damage, 300 tail salm dmg (reduce all stam costs on all attacks)
omni: 500 hp, 80 bite dmg
(I know pesky said this a year ago but i think he is right, this all would apply great even today)

[dusky surge]

still MASSIVELY disagree with these takes

[gleaming karma]

Tell me why

[dusky surge]

pesky's video was so full of holes its genuinely crazy

[tall bronze]

Omni with 500 health makes my bones angry

[gleaming karma]

No it wasn't i rewatched it many times he is very correect

how much hp should it have xd?

[dusky surge]

the whole "carno should be fighting stego" take was so absurd i had to double take

[tall bronze]

I mean 450 is already eh for me but just nothing higher than that at least

[dusky surge]

as much as it weighs, like it does now.

[gleaming karma]

omni is ass right now

[tall bronze]

what

[dusky surge]

no, not really

[gleaming karma]

a whole carno pack should be able to kill stego

Stego is litterly unkillable lmao

[tall bronze]

Omni is bad mostly due to other indirect issues, namely Carno having a Texas sized ram and being absolutely everywhere.

[dusky surge]

not really lol

stego is infinitely more mortal than deino

deino never has to die if it decides it doesnt want to, the only true threat to a deino is more deinos

[gleaming karma]

xd stego cant on land to anything

deino cant die because he runs to water thats it thats all he has

Stego wont ever die if he is not stupid

[tall bronze]

Omni packs can actually take down Stegos. Problem is though that, again, Omnis are rare since Carno is everywhere right now. It's like an invasive species almost 😛

[gleaming karma]

Deino has the problems with fighting other deinos while stego has no problem

[gleaming karma]

If the stego knows how to buck and plant his head inside a tree he wont die ever

[dusky surge]

deino cant die because it has the highest HP in the game, the best bleed resist in the game, the best bite damage in the game, the ability to dive in water (no other species has this), a one shot attack on anything below 4 tons, the best swimspeed in the game

[gleaming karma]

I hope to God Troodon is OP

[gleaming karma]

thats why the hp gets nerfed

[dusky surge]

troodon isnt going to kill stego if thats what you're trying to say

[gleaming karma]

I hope it will

stego deserves to suffer

[dusky surge]

it wont

stego does not deserve to suffer

[tall bronze]

That's why you're not supposed to stay latched on when you pounce, you just tap it. Eventually you wear it down and it won't be capable of bucking due to no stamina. Now admittedly, one slight issue that affects Omni is UI updating in chunks instead of smoothly, so this can make it very hard to gauge when to jump off of a target.

[gleaming karma]

It does its unkillable lmao

[dusky surge]

if anything deserves to suffer, deino deserves it more. stego is doing a good duty of keeping the unkillable water lizards in the damn water

[gleaming karma]

a touch of the pounce wont be enough bleed if you want to wait 1 hour for him to bleed out be my guest

[dusky surge]

i've watched omnis solo stegos in U6. skill issue i guess

[tall bronze]

That's why you work with a pack and trade pounces. Stack it up.

[gleaming karma]

stego is not a apex herbi

[dusky surge]

deino is not an apex carni

[tall bronze]

Apex is a pointless term anyways heehee

[gleaming karma]

it should be

[gleaming karma]

true tho

[dusky surge]

then stego should be an apex herbi

[gleaming karma]

No way

trike is apex herbi stego should be a glass cannon

[dusky surge]

stego needs to be able to fight off rex anyways'

[gleaming karma]

no way hahaha

[dusky surge]

and stego is extremely undersized in The Isle, realistically it would be 8 tons, not 6

[gleaming karma]

Lets not talk about realism in this game its not really realistic now is it

[dusky surge]

if it cant run from rex, it needs to fight it

therefor, it should be able to fight off rex

otherwise its garbage and a bad animal

[gleaming karma]

its a broken animal right now

[dusky surge]

honestly, barely

pachy, carno and deino are all stronger in U6

[gleaming karma]

when is the last time you saw a stego die on land

[dusky surge]

but Update 6 is just a whole pile of stupid

[gleaming karma]

Deino loses 1v1 to stego

[dusky surge]

yes, as it should

[gleaming karma]

and stego can run away from him so ?

it should not be able to fight it

[dusky surge]

deino is not designed to fight anything beyond half its size competently

[gleaming karma]

Deino should be able to fight anything when near water its litterly the only place he is good at

[dusky surge]

it can already fight and kill stegos (if it isnt completely stupid, or has a friend)

but most deino players are so bad they just run into stegs and die

[gleaming karma]

1 stego can beat 2 deinos if they are the same skill level

[dusky surge]

lmao no

if they're both bad maybe

[gleaming karma]

LMAO yes did you ever play this game?

[dusky surge]

yes, and i've killed many stegos as deino by using my big ol' noggin or friends

[gleaming karma]

maybe brain dead stegos

[dusky surge]

but deino players generally just W+Shift+M1 into a tail and die

[gleaming karma]

stego is S+ tier

deino is below him

[dusky surge]

lmao no

[gleaming karma]

xd?

[dusky surge]

you NEVER have to die to a stego if you have eyes and a brain

deino you can die to because it can ambush and instantly kill you

[tall bronze]

Fun lil way of looking at how Carno helps make Stegos more common right now 😛