balance-feedback-discussion

[thin mantle]

Honestly the logistics of ram don’t make any more or less sense on literally every animal than it does with Carno

Runs into other animals with nose

[wintry halo]

Matter of fact didnt some body in here made that argument a little bit ago?

[wintry halo]

Its the arched back for me that wouldnt feel pleasant at all.

[dawn falcon]

LMFAO fr

[thin mantle]

It’s the broken neck and pierced frontal lobe that gets me

Like your spine is dust if you do that

[dawn falcon]

Why couldn’t they just have rotated its head down a bit more so it looks like the horns was hit first

[thin mantle]

Logistically it changes nothing acceot making charge hurt more for both parties

[dawn falcon]

Regardless it’s better looking than nostril impact

[wintry halo]

Nah a carno would forsure trip and damagenits self even more even with a utah sized animal

Damage itself*

[wintry halo]

This

[thin mantle]

Again it’d probably break its own neck

[wintry halo]

Would be a sight too behold yeah ngl

[dawn falcon]

Literally everything would hurt itself in this game lol

The impact of pouncing would damage Utahs arms
Carno would break its neck from charging..
stego would break its shins because of its air time

The list goes on, so just make it look aesthetically pleasing with what inaccuracies there are

[hollow canyon]

it makes more sense on some other theropods - Carcharodontosaurs were actually adapted to headbutting

[thin mantle]

Mhm…something with a much bigger head and robust neck

[hollow canyon]

yea their skulls specifically were made in such a way that they could use them to shove and hit things with

[wintry halo]

Oh yeah game balances right its the fact that some people thinkg carno really something compared too the pther midtiers its one of the lowest

[thin mantle]

Tbf I would definitely prefer for those defiances of physics to not exist so I wasn’t having to ignore my brain when trying to get immersed

Like all I think about when I see a Carno charge something is “if you can do that…why do any of the other creatures attacks hurt you” XD

Like Carno ramming into anything face first doesn’t even damage it but a Pachy ramming into carnos face breaks it’s jaw and blinds it lol

Idk…it’s stuff like that existing that makes me laugh whenever someone calls this a horror game

[frail bobcat]

@tranquil pawn the buck nerfs were necessary, but not to this extent

[tranquil pawn]

Note how I didn't comment of the buck nerfs being unnecessary

[somber sphinx]

Also omni didn’t get a turn nerf

[tranquil pawn]

Really? What's all of the dozens of feedback posts about it then?

I'm genuinely curious

[frail bobcat]

Nappn (a really good omni player) also said it

[somber sphinx]

Idk, people thought teno got nerfed even if it didn’t so idk

[frail bobcat]

Imma just ask the devs once I catch one in chat

[tranquil pawn]

Damn

[somber sphinx]

It isn’t in the patch notes and it feels the same from u5

[hollow canyon]

^ and the QA confirmed that its agility wasn't touched

[tranquil pawn]

Righteo I'll just edit that out 😅

[somber sphinx]

👍

[frail bobcat]

Dryo speed being nerfed wasnt in there either

At least I didnt find it

[tranquil pawn]

Wait I'm sorry I did put in the buck nerfs were unnecessary I'm sorry, I'm really tired atm so I sincerely apologise XD

[frail bobcat]

Ok

@hollow canyon i havent seen such a good take in #balance-feedback for a long time

[hollow canyon]

Thx

I rarely write anything there lately

[tranquil pawn]

I've noticed most of Aken's takes are really based lol

[hollow canyon]

I also forgot(didn't have the space) to add that charging anything larger than Carno should stun Carno(atm I think the cut off point for the stagger is 2.7t)

I'd tone it down to either Carno's own weight or 2.1t

Also - I think everything turns too badly in the game right now while running, the inertia is just outright annoying - tone it down on everything and let animals turn at least a little bit better

[thin mantle]

@hollow canyon
Stellar feedback.
If those changes made it in and charge is still too oppressive against defenders like teno it may be worth looking into reducing its damage further to complete relegate it to utility…
But that’s more of a “we’ll cross that bridge if it even exists”, I’d wanna test that initially revised version of charge first.

The main pitfall I see with balancing it via stam cost is that you can negate that with multiple carnos…which even in the context of two groups…would render the teno they target all but dead meat…the follow up on the Tenonto HAS to be necessary to avoid this

Otherwise we risk simplifying combat between the two far too much…and I miss the days when both combatants had a bit more push and pull

@feral flume It’s incredibly hyperbolic to imply current Omni is less viable than U5 dryo….current Omni quite literally IS U5 dryo but with 3 times the HP, triple the damage if not more…can’t remember dryo’s damage off the top of my head…and pounce…which is still very strong despite having a shorter uptime

[feral flume]

Mmmm… yeah but at least dryo could evade its predators back in update 5 😂

It’s harder to be alive as a utah than it was to be alive as a dryo in update 5. Just because it does more damage doesn’t mean it can stay alive. Plus, dryo never needed to kill to survive it only had to run meaning utah raptor is wayyyy worse at what it’s supposed to do than dryo was. Utah can’t effectively hunt anything anymore.

[thin mantle]

Sure it could…so can Utah if you pounce at the Carno charging you…depending on your ping you’ll teleport to its flank

[feral flume]

Yer stam is still gone in two tics, just because you’re out of the first bite doesn’t mean you can survive the encounter

[thin mantle]

Learn how to tap pounce ig
It’s surprisingly very effective

[feral flume]

I have, actually. I’ve done the exact thing you proposed in update 5 and 5.5 but definitely doesn’t work in 6 when your opposer bucks.

[thin mantle]

Like seriously I don’t think Utah is too weak…other animals are too strong…

[feral flume]

That’s true, but it still makes utah unviable

[thin mantle]

Your opposer can’t buck if you tap pounce, the trigger won’t activate by the time you’re off of them

[thin mantle]

Unviable is FAR from what Utah is…it can survive and has ways to avoid all its threats…

[feral flume]

No it doesn’t 😂

You can’t kill anything as a utah

[thin mantle]

Yes you can, you can absolutely hunt tenos in the current meta…you can absolutely hunt stegos…Carno is op and Pachy is op…those are the main issues

[feral flume]

A predator is supposed to hunt, it’s supposed to be able to predate. You can’t do that anymore as a utah and you definitely can’t avoid carnos with their charges.

[thin mantle]

Use rocks and trees would be my advice for Carno…it’s a poor solution but it definitely makes you viable

[feral flume]

Stego hit box is broken when the server lag is as bad as it is, death sentence 30% of the time. Teno is doable but they’re all dead now, and your pounce is still absolutely thrashed.

Use…. Rocks and trees to kill a carno???

[thin mantle]

Buck is an irrelevant mechanic to pounce if you tap pounce properly…

[thin mantle]

No to avoid them…

[feral flume]

So you think utah should never kill carno?

[golden coral]

What numbers of omni vs a target are we talking about?

[thin mantle]

Why on earth would you think I’m saying that

[golden coral]

And what's the projected losses? Since that's part of it too

[thin mantle]

I’ve literally said multiple times that Carno is overpowered

[feral flume]

Yuh

So why are you saying utah isn’t unviable

[thin mantle]

Omni isn’t too weak…Carno is too strong

[thin mantle]

Because despite that you CAN survive as an Omni

[feral flume]

It’s the least viable playable aside from dryo I would say

[thin mantle]

If you stuck near the tree line and use rocks and trees to your advantage in avoiding them you can escape them

[feral flume]

Gonna sit on a rock your whole play through???

[golden coral]

Maybe the omnis can deal with the "use terrain" now argument

[thin mantle]

Ok now I know you haven’t played teno

[feral flume]

Oh mmm actually no pachy is really hard to fight as teno you’re right

[hollow canyon]

I'm not particularly sure about that, Teno is in a really bad spot if it's seen by a Pachy that wants it dead right now

[feral flume]

I haven’t played teno as much, no. But I do understand it’s pretty bad

[thin mantle]

You’re not paying listening to what I’m saying…I’m saying there ARE ways to circumvent carnos…the ability to survive is what viability in this game is…

[hollow canyon]

It's been bad since U4 rolled out

but now people started waking up to that

[thin mantle]

Teno gets effortlessly fodderized by Carno and Pachy rn

[hollow canyon]

Pachy just dumpsters Teno ever since it came out

[feral flume]

That’s a big yikes

[thin mantle]

Pachy since…as Aken said….U4

[golden coral]

Omnis usually think it's fine to tell everyone else "just use terrain, stand at a tree or cliff" to counter pounce. I think it's perfectly fair to say "sit on a rock" as a counter now, no?

[feral flume]

To say a predator is viable is to say it’s something that can be used as a predator and utah just isn’t what it should be.

It’s bad. It’s really bad.

In comparison to the predators and prey it’s meant to have at least

[thin mantle]

And as omnis you can still absolutely hunt them if you don’t use pounce as you would’ve in the last build of the game…tap pouncing is VERY hard for tenos to counter since pounce is already a very hard ability to deal with for them…so if you’re not stacking bleed per pounce and instead stacking bleed across multiple successive pounces you’ll take them down handily…and teno is the only land animal aside from stego that wasn’t buffed into the stratosphere….that should say something about how viable Omni ACTUALLY is

[golden coral]

Maybe it is what it should be, there's no saying the earlier omni was how it's meant to be.

[golden coral]

Honestly, there's very little in the roster aside from teno and dryo the omnis should hunt :p

[thin mantle]

It can kill things…fewer things than before but it CAN kill things…I don’t know what the delusion of Omni getting dumpstered by literally all the playables comes from when it’s just Pachy and Carno

[feral flume]

Tenos can still camp stuff it’s not hard to just… be on a cliff or water and those utahs can’t do a whole lot about it

[thin mantle]

Good…that’s one of the ways pounce is countered…

Maybe hunt a teno that’s in the open instead

Plan your hunts

[golden coral]

Two of which should "dumpster" it more than not, being what they are, at that.

[thin mantle]

Mhm…it’s just to the degree that they do that needs adjusting

[golden coral]

Even if they're both overtuned as it stands of course

[feral flume]

You never see dryo, it get dumpstered by the most common predator, gets dumpsteted by something it should be about the same as, you can’t find tenos anymore to be honest they’re all dead, and stego can just somehow lag it’s hit box into you.

[golden coral]

Correct!

[feral flume]

I think it’s crazy to say something isn’t wrong with that

It’s a predator! One good matchup is really bad!

[golden coral]

Carno is meant to hunt small game, it's meant to hunt things like omni and pachy and dryo and so on. And the pachy has kind of been claimed to be "anti-omni" so it's not quite "the same as". Stego just is a terrible choice to hunt because well, flanker vs anti-flank. The biggest issue here is a lack of good prey in the roster for what omni is and how it works.

[thin mantle]

That’s because dryo got the fattest nerf anything in this game has ever received this update….
Your argument for why Omni isn’t viable rests on the teno population not existing…which is not a problem with Omni but Carno and Pachy, plus Omni CAN survive comfortably on AI, so it’s not like you can’t feed yourself…

[thin mantle]

Even if it had no good matchups and could only run away I’d still call it viable…you’re misusing that word

It’s a BAD state to be in but let’s not be hyperbolic

If it has the capacity to escape its threats and feed itself it IS viable in this game…dryo was viable last update despite having no combative matchups

Still a sucky place to be, I’m not denying that

But I also don’t want to conflate Omni’s current struggles with any shortcomings on its part…because it’s very strong when it isn’t having to deal with current Carno and Pachy

Teno is proof of that

[feral flume]

I think if you’re saying a predator that can only run away and escape is viable then Im done having this discussion that’s absurd

Im glad we agree utah is in a bad spot though

[thin mantle]

Lol…ptera is a predator

It’s the most viable animal in game

[feral flume]

Ptera is a scavenger and fisher actually

[thin mantle]

It has 0 combative matchups with players

[thin mantle]

Are fish not prey?

[feral flume]

It’s got basically no playables in its diet

[thin mantle]

Lemme answer that…they are

[feral flume]

So no I wouldn’t consider it a real predator

[dawn falcon]

This is false

It’s a literal hatchling/juvie hunter now

[thin mantle]

Then you have double standards for what a predator is

Ptera literally hunts fish

[feral flume]

Oh didn’t play ptera yet that’s cool

Fish are kind of an environmenta thing not gonna lie it doesn’t feel like a hunt?

[dawn falcon]

I’ve seen swarms of Pteras ambush and kill hatchling Utahs while they’re eating and thrash their corpses around to get the gore

[feral flume]

Feels like eating fruit lol

[thin mantle]

I don’t care honestly…its categorically hunting

[feral flume]

Alright we’ll

Even then ptera has more luck hunting than utah

[dawn falcon]

Way more fun than ptera used to be lol

[feral flume]

Lol

[dawn falcon]

You can actually reap the rewards of hunting now

[thin mantle]

Ptera has fewer available targets than Omni so no

[feral flume]

No ptera can still kill similarly sized juvies

[thin mantle]

So can Omni….

[feral flume]

No a juv utah can’t kill a similar sized juv carno?

[golden coral]

Honestly, Omni is probably not half as bad as you guys make it out to be. You need to actually give it some time, get used to the new ways to play, and then we'll see.

[feral flume]

I think it is. If a utah can’t take the only other major land predator then what the hell is supposed to kill it?

[thin mantle]

You chose the one juvi that Omni juvis struggle with….

[thin mantle]

That’s a bizarre take…what makes that true?

[feral flume]

Lack of offensive capabilities on utahs side?

[thin mantle]

Actually I almost forgot

Omni oneshots anything it’s size or smaller

Anyway I gotta shovel a driveway brb

[feral flume]

Ping me when you’re back

I think I either want to convince you or have you explain why it’s okay for utah to be called viable when it’s this bad

[hollow canyon]

I will be honest, I'd love to make some feedback on Utah and what I'd like to do with it but I just generally dislike the direction this animal was taken in.

[golden coral]

@feral flumeMy point was more so, give it a few weeks, see how things turn out, and get used to it all, before you all go off on "It's literally useless now". Mostly because I saw this exact reaction when we changed omni from damage to bleed, and yet, things seems to have worked out in the end. Not to mention that there has been promised a balance pass between this and the next update. So this whole "Everything's ruined now!" seems far more dramatic than what is needed.

[golden coral]

Now you made me curious :p

[thin mantle]

Yeah….same

[thin mantle]

May be a fat minute but I’ll let ya know 👍

[feral flume]

Well, it’s ruined till they fix it ahah. If utah isn’t as unplayable As I still think, teno will be. there’s no excuse for what happens when a teno fights a pachy.

[feral flume]

👌

[feral flume]

Anyways now I’ll focus on what you said now. This is mmmmm….

[golden coral]

Yes but teno was bad even before this :p That matchup is just worse now, but not new. But my point still stands, and it was mostly related to all of the "omni sucks now" posts. Since I've not seen that much about teno, despite it being far worse off.

[feral flume]

I sharply disagree with your notion that utah only hunts tiny little dryo and Teno

[golden coral]

Pachy needs to get worked on how it uses CC, to make it not stunlock things and so on.

[feral flume]

No it was usable, you could counter if you were good against carnos. Now even if you do get a stun you do less.

[golden coral]

Out of the current roster. I can assure you, I have an entire list of critters I think omni would and should be good vs :p

[hollow canyon]

GODDAMN LAG

[golden coral]

I meant teno/pachy matchup there.

[hollow canyon]

to put it simply - I don't think that Utah should be a bleeder, it should be a damage dealer

[feral flume]

Oh yeah forsure it was always bad against pachy but it’s worse now by a lot

[feral flume]

Why?

[hollow canyon]

I understand why it was made this way - to be at least the one bleeder in this game

[feral flume]

Them claws look better suited for bleed than damage to me

Makes more realistic sense?

[golden coral]

@feral flumeThe issue with omni is that you have a large game hunter in a roster filled with A, a designated small game hunter meant to terrorize things in omnis size range, B, a dedicated antiflanker, C, a river worm you can't even get to, and D, a "anti-omni" brawler meant to be very dangerous for a solo omni to take on (pachy).

[golden coral]

Ah, yes, that would be fine. Might even fit with current bucking more at that.

[hollow canyon]

Not really, for the most part dromaeosaurs didn't use their claws to deal damage but their jaws, the claws were used to hook onto the target and pin it down and then the jaws were doing the real damage but besides that I think it just makes more sense in the game.

I'd up Utah's pounce's damage per second and decrease the bleed down to 1:1

[feral flume]

Yeah but utah isn’t a solo playable, it’s a pack hunter. It can’t take on any of that alone under normal conditions but it absolutely should be able to do it in packs.

It can’t anymore, really

[hollow canyon]

you would effectively deal less bleed per tick but it would be compensated by damage and due to the fact that it's damage would get upped(it just got nerfed) the bleed would still be somewhat significant.

Now - why would this make sense you ask?

[feral flume]

I do ask that yes

[golden coral]

I'm fine with 3-4 omnis being threatening to a carno, and teno. If that's not the case, then fine tuning is obviously needed. As for stego, quite frankly, an entire pack should not go near it, it's the one animal aside from anky that can just negate omnis main advantage/style of attack. As for deino, well it lives in rivers, what are you doing to do there? Pachy should be 2v1 or so for a decent chance for the omnis I think, that sounds about right. And that obviously also require some fine tuning, but that's mostly cause pachy is currently more of a menace than usual.

[hollow canyon]

It's simple this would make Utah less one-dimensional as an animal. If someone starts bucking you can bite it to deal damage, both your attacks make sense to be used now. At the moment the bite of a Utah is largely useless if you're trying to wear down a larger prey. You EITHER kill something with bleed or with damage so you either use your pounce to bleed something out or bites to kill it.

Now these two attacks would actually work together

[feral flume]

What’s supposed to hunt stego then? Definitely ain’t carno lol. That hit box is WILD.

[hollow canyon]

because you'd be working on a single health pool instead of 2 separate ones

[golden coral]

Right now, nothing. Just like with deino. Though deinos can, and I guess it's the best option.

[feral flume]

Well that’s an awful roster plan 😂

[golden coral]

Not really, deino is fine having no threats, as is stego really.

[hollow canyon]

I'd personally prefer if bleed just dealt damage as a DoT like in legacy in which case it would sort out both issues and Utah could remain a bleeder but the community screeches the moment legacy gets mentioned.

[feral flume]

Why would you ever have that be the matchup. Invulnerable except to one playable 😂😂

Sorry I just don’t think I’ll ever agree with that

[golden coral]

Because there's going to be plenty of other prey for omni, and other things that will hunt stego.And the same for deino, it'll have threats like spino in the future.

You're just looking at the current roster while I'm taking the future playables into account as well.

[feral flume]

Why would you have a dead empty gameplay though when you could just… make utah hunt stuff lol

[golden coral]

Sure, we could rebalance for current roster, but then we'd rebalance again in the future and suddenly the things you used to hunt is no longer huntable, and I'm sure that wouldnt go over well.

[feral flume]

Make the large game hunter not hunt large game??

Okay sounds really fun and balanced to me@

[golden coral]

Because its not designed to hunt the playable in the game. What should hunt deino then? Omnis as well?

[golden coral]

Yes, because small or large game isn't black/white, since it should depend on the playable

[feral flume]

No deino should have been added later actually.

[golden coral]

Agreed, so should stego

Especially since it was meant to be AI at first

[feral flume]

Stego is way less problematic than deino as large land herbivores are easier to balance than semi aquatic apexes

[golden coral]

Let me ask this then, should omnis hunt anky as well?

[feral flume]

Roster ain’t what it needs to be but utah should hunt stego. Nothing else can. And deino you can’t really fix

[golden coral]

In general yes, but not in this case because of the predators in game. One small game hunter, one a flanker.

Sure you can make omni hunt stego, but then trike will just die to omnis. Same with rex or giga or even shant really probably.

[feral flume]

They change balance all the time man, just because it can hunt stego now doesn’t mean it always will

[golden coral]

This is true, and if it wasn't for how well, omni players react, I'd be fine with letting them hunt stegos for now

But considering the reactions I've seen about current changes, and the earlier damage to bleed changes

Will you tell me that if we let omnis hunt stegos now, and then a few months later said "you cant hunt this thing anymore, because you have trike now", that would go over well and just be accepted?

[feral flume]

Consider this, stego is literally invincible. Tell me.. what’s worse? A utah being able to hunt bigger stuff or having a whole playable be immortal

[golden coral]

I trust you can at least see why I'd be a bit wary about setting up a situation now, that would change so drastically in the future?

[feral flume]

I don’t see your point 😂

Because the changes would actually be good

[golden coral]

Again, we have deino, even more incinvible. If deino is fine, so is stego, since it's less invincible at least.

[fresh laurel]

ok I dont wanna seem salty, but pachy hitboxes seem bs

[feral flume]

Deino is badly made but it’s kind of not fixable, but you can’t justify another bad matchup change with it

[fresh laurel]

that or evrima server issues idk

[feral flume]

So we have one messed up invincible playable? Let’s add another@

Is what you’re saying

[feral flume]

Both I reckon, hard to tell when the servers are never not laggy

[golden coral]

Yes and no, I am saying that the playable that should be "invincible" to omnis in a sense, should be so even now, since doing it the other way around will only lread to much frustration when its then changed back. But I'd be fine if they just took stego out to be honest for now, it needs a rework anyway.

I just don't like the idea of balancing something for the current roster all that much because it can cause a mess further down the line.

[feral flume]

If it’s invincible to Omni it has no predators unless you wanna make carno hunt it

Lol

[fresh laurel]

Like im getting the cc from the tail man

[golden coral]

I am aware, I did say earlier that the roster is rather bad, did I not? :p

[feral flume]

Yeah shits wild

[feral flume]

Yeah no need to make it worse 😂

[fresh laurel]

pachy really just demolishes utah which worries me on how the hell a pack of those bone heads will dominate lmao

[golden coral]

Well, that'd happen if we introduced even less fitting playables xD

[feral flume]

I think basically everything is demolishing utah right now actually, everything that isn’t teno and ptera

[golden coral]

I know some people want to introduce rex to deal with stego xD

[fresh laurel]

Utah has a chance against carno, just much harder

[feral flume]

How about focus on people actually playing the game right now instead of theoretical additions and matchups?

[blazing vault]

Utah has no chance against a Carno

[fresh laurel]

a pack seems to have a chance

[feral flume]

Unkillable stego now is probably more important than a maybe theoretical stego with a predator a few years down the line

[blazing vault]

I ran thru 20 utahs with my Carno while watching Youtube and just right clicking

[fresh laurel]

anyways, I find it weird that carno bucking is even stronger against utah which is... weird to me

[feral flume]

Not really since the carnos have a really really good ram and utah pounce got thrashed. Unless the carno is fresh outta legacy utahs seem to struggle exceedingly hard.

[fresh laurel]

I would say buff utah but it seems bucking is what makes pounce quite hard to get rewarded with lol

maybe revert the pounce tick nerf

[blazing vault]

Now i just feel bad demolishing packs of raptors with no effort... its soo sad now

[feral flume]

They need to revert everything that isn’t the recovery nerf and the carno and pachy bleed buff

[fresh laurel]

Notice how each balance patch, Utah performs horrible or too good

[feral flume]

Well mmm maybe carno stamina should stay higher but

[wintry mountain]

[fresh laurel]

carno ram needs a nerf for sure

[feral flume]

Most of the balancing was really bad

[golden coral]

I did tell you why I don't think that's ideal, much as I can understand how you're seeing things. But even if we did focus on current roster, well, aside from deino and stego, carno would be the apex predator here, as it should considering the rest is the small game it hunts.

[feral flume]

Yeah

[fresh laurel]

but again, buffing bucking like that while having environmental counters to pounce is quite the issue to me

[feral flume]

I just can’t fathom how you think it’s worse for utah to hunt stego than it is for stego to have literally zero predators

[golden coral]

Nah, the bucking needs to be kept as well. Earlier bucking was outright useless, if not a danger to the user at that.

[wintry mountain]

With how easy it is to make a carno burn through its stamina, it bucking should be hardly an issue for a competent Omni pack

[blazing vault]

you are absolutely right they took what little skill there was in playing carno and just made him a OP one trick pony

[fresh laurel]

he thinks utah killing stego is worse?

[golden coral]

Because of how I see the playables function, with their mechanics, and how I want them to use those mechancis, and so on.

[feral flume]

They nerfed it they made it worse lol

[fresh laurel]

just rework charge
"an ambush ability for a plains hunter"

[feral flume]

Then your outlook on the roster and future is flawed

[feral flume]

Yeah

[golden coral]

What?

[feral flume]

💀💀💀

[fresh laurel]

thats, a bruh momen

[feral flume]

They needed utah pounce? Like a lot???

[fresh laurel]

I would rather see stegos die to utah out of anything in the game

deino too ig

[feral flume]

Yup

[golden coral]

It's flawed to actually take the playables, their mechanics and abilities, and thus their place in the ecosystem into account? Well, I can't say I can understand how you can think that.

[feral flume]

It’s the ONLY thing that makes sense

Other than deino but they can’t catch stego

[golden coral]

So ignore how the playables should work then. Alright I guess, but it makes no sense to me.

[fresh laurel]

mate, it shouldnt have no predators currently

[feral flume]

How they should work in your mind is not compatible with the roster

You can’t just disregard the roster we have for the mechanics and playstyles you think the Dino’s should have

[fresh laurel]

they added stego early, and stego needs to be balanced around the current roster a bit more

[golden coral]

Better than giving it a predator it should by no means have. I'd rather take stego out than turn it into something it shouldn't be.

[blazing vault]

Having any Dino being virtually immortal in a sandbox game regardless of what the future holds is bad development

[feral flume]

It’s not better 😂

[golden coral]

It is. It just means that current roster isn't much of an ecosystem.

[fresh laurel]

but you cant just remove the playable, lol

utah out of everything makes quite the most sense in killing stego imo

[feral flume]

It can be if you’d give up on your small tiny game hunter utah

[fresh laurel]

sure, stego has the tools best suited for making pouncing hard for utah, but doesnt mean utah cant be able to kill it in packs

[golden coral]

What? At no point have I said omni should be a small game hunter xD

[golden coral]

You can, you could remove both deino and stego. Not saying it's an ideal choice, but you can do it. :p

[feral flume]

You said it should only hunt stuff dryo size or smaller or teno if I remember correctly

[golden coral]

Out of the current roster yes.

[feral flume]

Soooo small game hunter with one exception?

[fresh laurel]

I doubt the devs would considering the back lash and how they already designed parts of the map for deino :P

[golden coral]

That does not make omni a small game hunter as a designed playable.

[blazing vault]

Only thing that needed work on Utahs was the pounce everything else they did was not needed

[feral flume]

Why are you not ONLY talking about the current roster

You can’t make up theoretical counters and disregard immortality in the current game

[golden coral]

I know that. I'm just saying, I would rather they did that.

[fresh laurel]

people complain about lack of playables, now imagine what would happen if they removed 2 of the big ones lol

[feral flume]

Yyyyyeah

Bad idea all around

[fresh laurel]

Doesnt seem worth it, when you can just balance them

[blazing vault]

Having any Dino being virtually immortal in a sandbox game regardless of what the future holds is bad development

[wintry mountain]

Balance would be arguably better, but unfortunately it isn't an option

[golden coral]

Because I don't think an ongoing/only roster is the only thing that matters? Because I prefer to keep the playables designed as they should be.

[feral flume]

I’m gonna go eat, hopefully you realize that stego can’t be immortal

[feral flume]

Just wait to make em play that way till the roster permits it

Gawd dam

[fresh laurel]

Stego needs predators or at least major threats, quite shrimple like that

[golden coral]

And I did say why I think that might be an issue, but you ignored my concern about the potential fallout when changes are then reverted in the future.

[golden coral]

So does deino. But what they should do is just make them both worry about their own kind so they limit their numbers like that.

[feral flume]

Potential fallout means nothing when there is literally current worse fallout for an immortal stego

[golden coral]

Maybe not to you, but we clearly have different concerns.

[feral flume]

I think you’re definitely one of the few who think that way

Have a good day man

[golden coral]

Quite possible.

But considering the game seems more balanced around how it "should" be, I might not be the only one :p

[blazing vault]

Difference is that Deino has a reason to kill each other while Stego don't

[golden coral]

Agreed, so give stegos more reasons to be territorial!

[blazing vault]

or just revert the changes to 5.5 balance and give is a more balanced game

[golden coral]

@blazing vaultI'll add that I believe that things should have themselves as limits as a fundamental. I disagree with the sentiment of "but this thing will kill thst thing", because it relies on people playing "that" thing.

So even if there's no predator for stego or deino in game, they should have concerns that limits them anyway, instead of relying on someone playing something that is meant to deal with them.

[golden coral]

Nah, it wasn't balance before this either xD

[blazing vault]

was better than this

[golden coral]

It was mostly just the other way around for carno and omni, and pachy was slightly less of a menace.

[golden coral]

I don't know, I think people need to give this a few weeks to see how it actually goes when everyone is used to it and all that. Right now it's just.. doom and gloom it seems.

Just like the damage to bleed change for omni, so I'm not sure I can take most of the feedback that seriously before it's been properly tried out and all that. Also theres that question of if the turn has been changed on things or not, so that can also change how it plays out.

[blazing vault]

It only felt that way because there were alot of people playing Utahs as its a fan favorite... in fact most fight ended in the Carnos favor

[golden coral]

And maybe it feels that way right now because everyone is carno? I know carno is a bit overtuned, but you do see my point right?

[blazing vault]

Even the highest teir Utah player fighting a Carno wasnt clear cut except if utah had numbers

[obtuse ocean]

Im the worse utah player in the history of the isle, and i killed carnos with ease

[golden coral]

Considering the mindlessly easy pounce + no aim + the massive bleed + carno bleed multiplier + buck being useless.I dont know.

[wintry mountain]

Can I genuinely ask, As someone who plays omni, has anyone tried just, focusing on baiting attacks and doing shorter pounces to bait buck?

Bcs like, aside from the lower pounce damage and slightly less bleed output, Omni is still in a phenomenal spot if played correctly.

Only issue im seeing is people not adjusting to the fact that bucking is actually useful and a counter to pounce

Like yeah there are some issues that need tweaking.

Carnos charge hitbox is ridiculous for once

But like the other complaints i've seen are changes that factually just, Did not happen unless bugged, mainly being the turn rate for Omni

[blazing vault]

I main Carno and had no trouble with Utahs before except in groups but now I dont even need to pay attention even if there 10 of them just charge at them run away charge again and they all die

[wintry mountain]

But like, Carno BP buff? Didn't happen.

[frail bobcat]

People are saying that it happened

And if it did happen, it would kinda destroy omni

[frail bobcat]

BP buff?

[wintry mountain]

I've only played omni since the update dropped and the turn feels the exact same

and Yeah, ppl have been trying to say carno got its BP raised, when it didnt

[frail bobcat]

What does BP mean lol?

[wintry mountain]

Blood pool

[frail bobcat]

Oh that

Nah, never saw any mentions of it

But the turn change is possible to have happened, omni felt kinda clunky for me and nappn said it

[blazing vault]

I dont know if the BP thing is true but now I rarly even get pounce I can run longer faster and charge is too easy to hit... nothing but a patchy has a chance against carno

[frail bobcat]

And there was some saying about dryo turn rate being also changed which solidifies those claims

[wintry mountain]

Pachy has its own issue which also stem from CC/Staggers not being a fun mechanic to play against

[wintry mountain]

Im just flat out telling you that they are changes that were not made on an intentional level as they aren't listed

[golden coral]

To be fair, that tells me very little considering how utterly bad most omnis are since they require so little to be good at omni in the first place. Also it depends on how you played and what you did, on if I will consider it good balance or not. But yes, the charge is a bit overtuned, this has been acknowledged too, there's some polishing to be done.

[wintry mountain]

Likewise I doubt their validity given they again, feel the exact same

[frail bobcat]

Dryo speed nerf also isnt listed and I heard that it happened

Apparently its 43.2 kmh now

At least I didnt see it

Just like dryo

[blazing vault]

No Omnis as well as most Dinos currently in the game lacks the speed/agility to avoid the charge consistently because of the buff to the turning while charging

[wintry mountain]

Dryo speed one is fair, tho I imagine the reasoning behind that is due to dodge providing a short speed burst

But the turn nerfs I still have my doubts on

From when up 5.5 released and the time spent developing, Neither of those turn rates feel any different

[frail bobcat]

Nah, it isnt. How is it supposed to escape if you need 10 percent of your stam to get a slight headstart (which you will lose over time).

[golden coral]

Well, so people say, but then we have others saying there's no change to speed and agility (for the other playables I mean). So I don't know what to believe there. And while the charge turn is no doubt better now, before, charge was kind of useless unless either A, in a group where it was really good or B, the target was afk or otherwise not paying any attention what so ever, or C, performance issues such as fps or ping

[wintry mountain]

I meant fair in you saying it wasnt listed

I dont rlly agree with the current state of dryo

[frail bobcat]

Oh

[blazing vault]

My statment has nothing to do with Dinos speed changes I only mention the Carno turn buff while charging

[frail bobcat]

And people did some tests on pachy vs omni and pachy can keep with omni while turning (which it previously couldnt)

[wintry mountain]

It always could

[golden coral]

Alright, apologies, I've read too much of everyone saying omni now has less agility and speed and thats why they can't "do anything" and so on.

[wintry mountain]

both have very similar turn rates, always have since the rebalance in 4.5 for it

[blazing vault]

Patchy has a tighter turn radius than Omni

[frail bobcat]

You sure?

I always thought it was the other way round

Then nvm

[blazing vault]

We tested it out on a private server yes

[fresh laurel]

deino major predators/threats would be hard to add due to it being water locked

[frail bobcat]

I just hope they clear up some stuff about turn changes if they did happen and stuff

[wintry mountain]

You can always ask punch or hypno, but they will probably say the same thing

[fresh laurel]

heck, we dont really have a land gator issue rn
or at least I hope

[wintry mountain]

Which means its either placebo due to carno being able to keep up better

[golden coral]

Well, it would probably be easier to add rex, I'll give you that much :p

[wintry mountain]

or something is bugged.

[frail bobcat]

I think imma do that

[fresh laurel]

why do that which would add a lot more issues

rex wouldnt really even confront deino much so...

[blazing vault]

That will literally break all balance

[golden coral]

I didn't say to do it, just that it would be easier to add a major predator for stego than for deino, as you said.

[fresh laurel]

rex wouldnt be a good idea though, your example ig is kinda funny to me

[frail bobcat]

Are you just allowed to do that?

[golden coral]

Maybe we're kind of missing each others point here. You said it would be hard to add a deino threat, I said you're right and that it would be easier to add a stego threat. That was all. I didnt say we should do it, nor do I think so, because yes, rex would only cause more issues (and itd only have stego to hunt at that)

[fresh laurel]

ok I get it

[wintry mountain]

if they are in chat

[fresh laurel]

[golden coral]

Well, you can tag Punch, but I would suggest to wait until he is around and taking questions. And Hypno I guess you could ask if you can catch him in the chat, but no ping on that one.

[frail bobcat]

Oh, I meant as in pm.

Just mixed some stuff up

[blazing vault]

All I'm saying is for me personally they took all the fun and enjoyment out of playing Carno in this update... before patch 1 Omni wasnt much of a threat but multiple was a cause for concern (as it should be) but now I don't even bat an eye when I see 5 of them there like pinballs wating to be put down

[dawn falcon]

@somber sphinx thanks for the chew toy

In scope

[somber sphinx]

Lol no problem

[winter iris]

Am I wrong or growth has become incredibly slow?

[golden coral]

Do you mean in time? Because with new growth, it should be much better as you grow "faster" in the sense of gaining power earlier.

[winter iris]

Yes I meant in time. I also noticed that stats go higher quite faster. I think there might be a bug for carno though. I am 41% gowth and my max speed says 60.7km/h hehe

[blazing vault]

Now is the time Rip and Tear my friend

[golden coral]

Hm, it is possible that you grow slower in sheer time, but I think the new growth curve makes up for that. And yeah, sub carno goes fast. It's due to the new growth, sub stego is also strangely fast, or so I've heard. What dietary boost are you on and what are you playing as?

[hasty coyote]

nope, you're just insanely fast as a sub carno, all adolescents got a speed buff

[hasty coyote]

Yeah stego reaches basically 40kph for a time.

[blazing vault]

Yep and as long as the only thing you do is charge you will be fine except patchys avoid them lol\

[winter iris]

I have 2 S and 1 double line atm. Still need to fully work out this new diet tbh

[golden coral]

You seen it? Im curious to see how that actually looks in game :p

[golden coral]

Look at your character screen please, I don't recall exactly what that does.

[hasty coyote]

I played it lol, its terrifying because you're still like 2-3 tons

[winter iris]

It just says growth rate increase 5%

[urban birch]

are they activated

like glowing almost

[hasty coyote]

thats why its slow, you have to activate 1 of each nutrient to get the +50%

[golden coral]

At least you're still slower than anything else in that size range right?

[urban birch]

you also have to have perfect diet to get the full growth buff

[golden coral]

Someone have the chart?

[winter iris]

Ok thx. I thought it was that hehe. I had some organs but did that after I already had 2 S’s on my diet, so maybe I didn’t get the heart in the diet for example

[hasty coyote]

its a smaller difference in speed than utah and dryo

[urban birch]

the chart needs to be updated im pretty sure

[golden coral]

But still slower at least?

[golden coral]

Oh, maybe it does.

[hasty coyote]

that and what other people have said, you have to fill the slots to 100% to activate them, the 2S and 1// will give like +30% once you activate all 3

[hasty coyote]

compared to pachy and teno, barely. Though I will have to double check the exact % that is the fastest and how fast it goes

[golden coral]

We might need another guide to show how the diets work!

[golden coral]

Alright!

[hasty coyote]

actually I can do that real quick, brb

[thin mantle]

Max I’ve seen so far is 34

[urban birch]

i think the person who made the first chart is in the process of updating it

[lilac prawn]

already finished ;)

[urban birch]

niceee

[hasty coyote]

ok I must have misremembered, its like 34.2 at max from what I'm seeing

I'm still about 3 tons at this time though

[thin mantle]

I knew my memory would serve me well

[hasty coyote]

I could have sworn I saw myself go to 38 at a time, must have misread at the time

[thin mantle]

Mhm…tbh I think 34 is an alright speed even at 3 tons…it’s at least not as bad a sub speed as most

[hasty coyote]

its still scarily fast for its size, sub stego honestly seems more fun than adult stego lol

[thin mantle]

It’s not oppressive enough to be too fast…the scariest part is how fast it reaches that speed XD
Sub stego so far has absolutely been the most entertaining time I’ve had with stego in a long time

[golden coral]

Okay, not too terrible then!

[golden coral]

You know, if that's the case, that's great. That means we'll see a lot of sub stegos out and about, and at 3T with "limited" range on tail, they're a lot more killable by carnos and omnis than fully grown, so we can get some culling in.

[hasty coyote]

Still takes like 2 hours to get to that point, so I doubt too many stegs will stop hiding.

[golden coral]

Still, its far better than before! And I think you reach decent size even faster than that so there's that too!

[hollow canyon]

@twilit juniper I agree with you however I still think that Carno is overtuned right now. Its match up with Utah wasn't well balanced at all on the previous update though.

Just like you pointed out

I think Carno will need to get some changes and as for Omni - bucking might just be perhaps a bit too strong but I will need to play more to make up my opinion on it.

[twilit juniper]

Glad you do 😅 I liked ur post too, those are the “certain good balance changes” I was also pointing to, just not directly.
And yeah, I agree, I tried to not be biased. (As being a carno main ever since it got released and never giving up on its bad-ness and good-ness)

[hollow canyon]

@fallen vale Those are some sensible suggestions when it comes to Pachy. I will be honest I haven't given much thought to this animal yet but it's also in the "definitely overtuned" basket on this update.

As for the suggested turn rate buffs for Utah and Carno: I will be honest - I think that they should do a global buff of turnrates.

Everything seems to be just turning too slowly.

Of course some animals should get a bigger buff than others but everything in the game just feels really rigid while running, a bit too rigid for my liking.

I always liked about Evrima that every creature felt like an actual animal while in other games of this type controlling a dinosaur feels like driving a bus but I feel like Evrima also started veering that way lately.

[fresh laurel]

Ok after actually playing na1, all I can say is
Utah needs some form of a buff.

And no, I wasnt trying to do solo utah hunting

Know what, just revert like most of the changes in balancing

omni can keep the miss endlag nerf
deino possibly the lunge buff
the rest, had weird changes

nerf the buck buff a bit
legit destroys omni stamina to be considered reasonable lol

[dusky surge]

omni doesn't need a reversion to what it was

what it was was exceptionally stupid and broken

[fresh laurel]

The biggest complaints I heard were due to its endlag being too short to punish

and then theres pachy and carno having a horrible time dealing with omni bleed, which have been adjusted rn, so that could stay

a global buck buff to this degree is over tuned imo considering how little stamina the bucker loses, even if they spend stamina on their own moves and etc

@dusky surge ?

wait, no dont think carno bleed resist was adjusted

but that thing needs a nerf regardless

[dusky surge]

what i would do with omni is slightly decrease the stam drain on being bucked, then add a new mechanic to pounce. While latched, holding RMB doesn't cause you to attack, it just leaves you stationary, bracing you for bucking. This reduces all stam damage done to the omni by 50%. Holding LMB while latched means you attack as you normally would with a pounce, but take the full stam damage.

This mechanic allows for more plays around tiring out prey and working as a team to take down larger prey items, while still punishing solo play aggression, while heavily rewarding teamwork (as omni should have)

[fresh laurel]

I wouldnt rely on adding a new mechanic for the balance rn

Since that would be too time consuming

maybe in the qol update

[dusky surge]

Would it really? It's running off what we already have, pounce works basically the same, just with a new state

[fresh laurel]

it would take a while considering what the devs have to work with already

or at least, doesnt seem like a priority for them

[dusky surge]

There's no real new animations or anything, and it actually makes omni more like how omni should be

[fresh laurel]

the matter is, we could probably see such an adjustment in the qol pass
I doubt we could see that before then unless theres enough demand

So again, best to address the issues with the current balance, no?

I think balancing was quite ok in update 5

omni needed slight nerfs with other playables like pachy and possibly carno getting a buff to their bleed resistance
Dryo was fine imo, didnt need the goofy nerf
now im also hearing of a global turn radius nerf which should be reverted if thats the case :P

deino lunge buff, im not heavily against it but I do wished deino got a sort of stun for having a prey escape their lunge (more chances of surviving)

now people may disagree with me, but oh well

also with pachy indirect buffs to fractures, think it needs more endlag on missing the ram ability

[dusky surge]

pretty sure thats a deino nerf

[fresh laurel]

people are claiming deino lunge does better against stego

[dusky surge]

lunge recoil damage increased significantly

[fresh laurel]

could always mean for when deino does it something outside grab range

[dusky surge]

recoil generally means it goes back on the user

[fresh laurel]

would have to take some testing, cus apparently some people are saying deino has a better time now

[twilit juniper]

I’m so sorry if I’m beating a dead horse but I can’t seem to get over the insane amounts of negativity carno is receiving
It’s like people forgot Omni was in the same, if not worse position in UP5-5.5. There should be a middle ground balance between the two so both main categories can stop slamming each other for nerfs/buffs
In UP5 omni was broken, and now in UP6 carno is kinda busted.
I don’t think the species and how it performs should be punished.

(but I’m still kinda dumbfounded/bamboozled that ppl don’t think carno is in our roster considered the only land apex when it literally is, it should be semi feared simply cause of what it is, not a “oh a carno, ez kill” moment )
I’m most likely speaking out of pure emotion, but it’s so irritating that nothing is ever perfectly 100% balanced for the dinosaurs sake, not for skilled gameplay or wether something can kill something or not sake, but simply what the dino is by nature. Im very certain when the entire roster is in, there are gonna be things that just simply die by others no matter what, or can’t counter something else. It’s supposed to be balanced, yes, that’s why we don’t put every dino from every era in the same era 💀 but that’s just what isle will most likely do,

I don’t personally think the isle will ever be 100% balanced with every match up vs every match up, some things are simply gonna be better than some with 30+ playables in the same server.

[small herald]

After playing teno all night it is around a 50 50 between teno and carno. I killed 4 carnos separately and each one took my health to 50-25%. If anyone of them hit me with another ram I would’ve died. I don’t think this is fair considering that teno is way slower than carno and can not escape it. The charge now goes through your tail slam and dodging it is near impossible. The only way you can win is by using bushes and surprise tactics against carnos. If you have a playable significantly slower than another playable you need to be beefier than the faster playable. Not do around the same damage. Also teno has had some heavy stamina nerfs. One carno facetanked me and when he died from my kicks I was under half stamina. This is not acceptable since most carno packs likely have two or more carnos. This guarantees that two carnos will kill one teno no matter what. This wouldn’t be that big of a deal but in my 5 hour session I saw only two juvie tenos and the rest of my interactions was with Utahs or carnos on na2. Please look at the balance of teno vs carno. I haven’t played Utah yet but I saw hardly any Utahs so I doubt that they are doing any better to combat carnos. Also carnos charge has a way to fast startup and also it knocked me down by hitting my tail multiple times. Please revert the charge to how it was last patch but keep the carnos bleed resistant from this patch. I feel like that would help balance the game a lot more.

[dusky surge]

what the hell is this lunatic rumour of a turnspeed nerf

i grew one to full, it feels EXACTLY the same in terms of high agility

[frail bobcat]

People like nappn are saying it and others believe it too. I dont know what to believe rn tbh

[dusky surge]

Yea no, IDK where this is coming from

I spent so long easily turning circles around a carno

[frail bobcat]

Maybe something has happened, because nappn said that his playstyle is ruined and that he wont be touching omni until it is fixed. And the dude wouldnt give up omni for no reason

But I dont know what to believe

Gonna have to try it for myself

[twilit juniper]

I do have to agree with Gen, Utah turn really doesn’t seem like it took a hit, maybe a literally minuscule one, but that really shouldn’t put someone off playing they’re main dino, it’s more about adjusting, I saw nappn talk about it, but I don’t know how he sees a difference 💀

[frail bobcat]

The thing that I want to see is proof that it happened

Because people keep saying it, but no video footage was posted of the change

This is what upsets me

[twilit juniper]

That’s an understandable worry, but I feel like there isn’t a way to prove it, no one took videos of Utah turn to specifically look at Utah turn in UP5.5, and we can’t go back to it

[dusty rune]

Turn speed IS nerfed and feels very choppy. You can test this yourself by WASDing in a circle

[winter iris]

I agree that ram shouldn’t knock dinos down when hitting the tail, but tbh your entire feedback is a bit strange. You start by saying that teno v carno seems to be a 50-50 fight (so kinda balanced) and then you complain because it’s so, saying that because teno is slower it shouldn’t be a 50-50 fight. Although I agree that a slower Dino should have ways to escape or win a fight, this doesn’t mean that its chances should be higher simply because it’s slower : winning odds are one thing, tools and means to win or escape are another one. Also, your point on stamina in which you say that after killing a carno you remain with less than half your stam pool and you consider that “unacceptable “ because if there was a second carno you would die, well….that’s probably how it’s supposed to end up if you face 2 carnos as a solo teno. And anyway also from your feedback it wouldn’t be a certain death, so I don’t really see a problem in what you reported.
It seems to me that you’re mainly upset because it is now a 50-50 fight instead of a fight in favour of teno how it used to be.
I still have to test the carno vs teno fight so you might be right on the overall outcome anyway (meaning it’s now too easy for carnos to kill tenos), but what I mean is that from your feedback it seems perfectly fine tbh hehe

[bright briar]

You have to consider that carno's turnspeed also got nerfed and it puts this topic into another relation. We have tested the Omni turning on our own server and it has definitely changed, e.g. pachy has a better turning than an Omni now. The agility is needed for an Omni to fight Pachies. Try it out and see for yourself

[hollow canyon]

no, that's not actually what that change did, Deino's lunge deals more damage but... it also stuns Deino much longer for some reason from what I've heard

[hollow canyon]

There were no nerfs to Tenonto. It has the same stamina consumption and deals the same damage as previously. Having said that - I agree that the match up is somewhat too much in Carno's favour.

[frail bobcat]

The kick hit detection got messed up apparently

[dusky surge]

not even a nerf, just a glitch

[hollow canyon]

ah, I see

I will need to check Tenonto out but

I've got no time goddamn it

waaaay too many things to check and test and play

and too little time

[hollow canyon]

admittedly the hit detection was being rumoured to be messed up for a very long time now

meanwhile it used to be one of the most on-point hit detections in the game back in ~4.5 and prior to that

I will definitely test it whenever I have a free moment

@small sphinx there were no changes to Tenonto's damage or Utahs turn speed

[small herald]

@hollow canyon it takes me at least 2-3 more kicks to kill a carno now

I almost only play teno and I definitely felt it this patch

[hazy cedar]

@fallen vale I love the idea of a jump off a cliff button for stego

[hollow canyon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XWp2vccTbk

it's the same

I tested both kicks and tailslams

there were no changes to it

it's the typical misinformation that happens after every update - you hit a different locational area with a lower multiplier and it feels like you're doing less damage

while the damage is actually the same

[chilly monolith]

I’d argue that IF teno didn’t have a nerf to it’s damage, it seems that way cause carno became wayyy too overbuffed and makes everything except pachy look incredibly weak

[golden coral]

@alpine ploverThey have, if I'm not mistaken, a grand total of 50 more in health than omni.

[hollow canyon]

there were no changes to that - at all

Tenonto needs the exact same HTK Carno as it did on the previous update

I'm genuinely flabbergasted where the idea that anything about this was changed even comes from

I'll be honest - seeing all the recent feedback made me realise why the devs might be potentially dismissive towards anything that the community could say

[alpine plover]

How do they take so many bites from so many different dinos, where the utahs takes like 4 bites from a carno and 1 full bite from a deino? I've seen Pachys take WAY more hits than that.

before and after

[hollow canyon]

because Pachy has a 0.5 multiplier on the head meaning that it takes less damage if you hit its head

unlike other animals that take increased damage if you hit their heads

[alpine plover]

I'm talking body bites

[hollow canyon]

oh - 3 bites from Carno kill a Pachy then

same as Utah - also three bites

if it takes more than three - you're not landing your hits on its body

which admittedly - the hitboxes in this game are somewhat scuffed

and Pachy specifically

is REALLY tricky with its locational

[alpine plover]

clearly. Because pre update 6 I fought 2 pachys as a full grown Carno, and I got like 7 CLEAR body shots and it must have been doing like tail or head shots

[golden coral]

I suspect it's because earlier, both carno and pachy struggled. Carno charge only worked on afk or in a group where the target could be distracted, pachy I believe struggled with landing the right fracture. Both of them also bled out incredibly fast, so easy to deal with (aside from pachy being able to stunlock, but thats a cc issue all of its own). Now that both pachy and carno are reliable in their mechanics, if overtuned currently with hitbox issues and similar, they have to be fought "properly", and this is clearly something people need to learn and adjust to.

[hollow canyon]

legshots*

legs locational is the one that most commonly takes over from the body locational in my experience

legs take iirc 0.8x damage

[alpine plover]

That's so stupid

[hollow canyon]

if you land hits on the back of the Pachy you are VERY likely to have your hit register as a legshot

[golden coral]

I would agree with Aken, it's probably locational issues or just ping/fps or something making you miss your aim. Because if we're talking bodyhits, there should be no difference aside from that 50 base weight/health between them, no other multipliers applied. Have you tested it on some server?

[alpine plover]

If my memory serves correctly, I was in a US server (I'm US based), and I had fairly low ping (around 40-60 ish)

[hollow canyon]

considering the amount of time I had to spend to check the damage of attacks on Pachy which was extended to an absurd extent due to this clunky hitbox... yea, it's the hitboxes

[golden coral]

Could still be that the target had different. I meant more so if you've tested on some testing server like Scopes or similar. Where you can have admin commands and repeat test to figure stuff out.

[hollow canyon]

not a ping thing, trust me, I tested that in an artificial setting with very low pings and a Pachy standing in place

[alpine plover]

ah

[hollow canyon]

it's just locational being locational

[alpine plover]

Fixed my balance feedback recommendation xD

[hollow canyon]

I'm not sure how exactly it went but it's some change they've introduced in 3.75 where if your attack goes through multiple areas the one that registers is the leg or arm iirc

but yea Pachy isn't very tanky per se, it's not the HP it's the locational multipliers that are good on this animal

[alpine plover]

ah

[hollow canyon]

e.g. a Deino lunge can still nuke it from 100 to 0 even if you don't drown the Pachy

It's one of the unfortunate things about this game - it's really goddamn unclear how it works exactly

unless you follow its development very closely and are in the know

if that makes sense

[alpine plover]

Like, I love this game to death, but the balance issues that JUST happened 2 fricking days ago are painful.

[hollow canyon]

yea Pachy and Carno are overtuned for sure

they will get toned down, no worries, this definitely isn't intended

[alpine plover]

Plus my dinosaur models look like they're like 200 polygons xD

I can see distinct angles on all the dinosaurs xD

[fresh laurel]

I mean, do note
carno got a buff that it didnt really need or at least make sense to me
compared to omni who only had pounce fixed piled by indirect buffs thanks to other creature nerfs

[frail bobcat]

Those werent really all indirect buffs
Damage buff
Pounce recovery

[fresh laurel]

oh yea, but I would say it was mostly the indirect buffs of carno bleed resistance and pachy kinda just, you know

[hollow canyon]

A/ Carno definitely needed a buff
B/ the changes to charge make sense but they require it to be now toned down in terms of how much it does, the ability is too powerful for its relative reliability now

[hollow canyon]

Carno did not get a bleed resistance buff

[frail bobcat]

The turn needs a slight nerf

[hollow canyon]

its bleed resistance has been nerfed and left that way

[fresh laurel]

I meant it got nerfed

which helped omni

[hollow canyon]

I disagree, I didn't have issues dodging it

it's not doable repeatedly and the ability does way too much when it hits

same issue as with the pounce on the last patch pretty much

halve the damage, decrease the CC

and it's good

[fresh laurel]

also the buffs carno really needed imo were the hunger drain being reduced and maybe some charge adjustment but not to this degree

[hollow canyon]

also maybe fix the hitbox it's perhaps a bit too forgiving

[hollow canyon]

no it didn't need the changes to its hunger drain, I'm glad it was left the way it was

[fresh laurel]

wasnt it draining really damn fast, considering all those complaints?

[hollow canyon]

charge adjustments are exactly what it got, those are good changes it's just that the ability itself needs some toning down

[hollow canyon]

it still is

45 minutes, it has the shortest hunger time in the game

[fresh laurel]

pretty sure that should be adjusted then.

[hollow canyon]

no, it's good as it is

[frail bobcat]

Dodging one charge is fine, dodging 5 in 40 seconds

[hollow canyon]

that's why it needs some further changes and I've already gone over what should be done with it

[frail bobcat]

Youll get hit by one eventually

[fresh laurel]

Meh.

[hollow canyon]

higher start up cost, massively reduced damage and significantly reduced CC

[frail bobcat]

Poutinne did good feedback on that

[hollow canyon]

I half-agree with him

I agree more so with his feedback on Pachy

Carno doesn't per se need a better turn rate I mean it does but

that's the case with every dino

they all turn like a bus

the inertia is absolutely appalling in this game right now

[frail bobcat]

They should remove the turnrate nerf they did

[hollow canyon]

they didn't do a turn rate nerf, Carno always turned like garbage since like U4

when they nerfed its every turn rate hard

just decrease the inertia and increase the turn rates of everything

I mean Teno is ok I feel like Stego's also ok

[frail bobcat]

What does inertia mean again?

[hollow canyon]

but Utah, Carno and Deino are absolutely painful to even look at

[hollow canyon]

it's a mechanic introduced in 3.75 which makes you turn worse at full speed

the heavier you are and the faster you're going the worse you turn

[wintry mountain]

Also makes retaining speed in turn harder

[hollow canyon]

which would seemingly suggest that it'd hit Carno the hardest

but when that thing released Dryo and Utah got absolutely shafted

both of them were absolutely awful until it was fixed

[wintry mountain]

It'd one of those "realism" mechanics that I feel like cause more difficulty

[hollow canyon]

^

[frail bobcat]

And now both of them have the same problem again

[hollow canyon]

I dont like it, it makes the game play weird

[hollow canyon]

oh I don't doubt that but atm I feel like everything suffers from inertia

[frail bobcat]

Its the mechanic where you start to drift, right?

[hollow canyon]

like literally every animal moves so awfully while running

[hollow canyon]

not quite

you start to drift

when you turn too hard while running

inertia kind of just... decreases how much you have to turn for that to happen I guess?

you turn worse while running because of it

it's realistic but goddamn does it feel off in the game

[frail bobcat]

I am used to inertia (because I joined in u4) so I am not bothered by it lol

I dont know how it felt before

[hollow canyon]

better

that's all I can say, it felt better

Im not even saying to remove it

just reduce its effect significantly

[wintry mountain]

I am still kinda iffy on the validity of the feedback saying it was nerfed, as it feels the complete same to me

If anything it's just a matter of its been meh, was made even worse because carno can more actively chase smalls now

Coupled with its obnoxiously large charge hitbox

[hollow canyon]

it feels the same as last update to me, having said that - that isn't saying much because it felt atrocious on the last update too

[frail bobcat]

The hitbox just cosplays thomas the tank engine, its fine

[wintry mountain]

Yeah fair there

My concern is mostly that we've put charge into an actual useful position to carno niche, and that if we improve the mobility of omni too much, it may just make the change redundant

Why my suspicion falls more to charge hitbox

[hollow canyon]

that's fair, having said that I still think that everything turns "slightly" too slowly while running

[wintry mountain]

Yeah it's not a change I'm against

Animals defined by mobility being able to retain speed better in turns makes sense after all

[frail bobcat]

sad Omniraptor noises

[wintry mountain]

I mean they needed a hit to the knees regardless when it came to pounce nuking things even through buck

But I agree their "lack" of mobility needs adjustment

[frail bobcat]

The buck change was needed, but not to this extent. The pounce miss change is fine

[wintry mountain]

I'd argue to disagree as omni can still punch through animals where it can out maneuver very easily

It's really only carno buck whom I argue is too much

As everything else omni controls the engagement

[frail bobcat]

True, they should give it back its mobility and then see how strong it is

[wintry mountain]

Aye

I'd like to start with a tone down on carno charge hitbox and stacking a activation cost onto its charge and slight tone down to its bucking damage

Omni I'd tone down the inertia/make it retain speed when turning better

Dryo needs wither some speed back or dodge cost cut back by a lot + the same inertia/speed retention tweaks

Pachy needs its cc privileges on adult teno and carno taken away

[frail bobcat]

Maybe a slight turn nerf for carno charge?

But the rest is based

[wintry mountain]

I'd rather see how an omni buff and the other changes I mentioned do

Carno charge is still dodgable if aware, I've mainly just seen the hitbox be ridiculous

[frail bobcat]

A slight turn nerf is needed, its the main issue with the hitbox rn

[wintry mountain]

I'd argue the size of the hitbox is more of an issue considering it's large enough to clip Into most creatures bodies from the tail base

Reducing charges turn just undermines the point of the change(making charge actually useful to it within its niche)

Making the hitbox smaller requires more precision on the carnos part

[frail bobcat]

True, carno is supposed to be a pursuit predator

[wintry mountain]

Instead of haha funni hit your tail but also clipped your body

If the hitbox change doesn't do what's needed? Yeah a turn rate nerf would be the next logical step

[fresh laurel]

just killed a teno solo as omni

[frail bobcat]

Nice

[fresh laurel]

teno probably had the worse ping cus their reactions were so delayed so...

[wintry mountain]

Teno is very much still omni food even with the stronger buck

So not surprising

[fresh laurel]

the teno wasnt good and had heavy lose conditions mind you

[frail bobcat]

Tenos need to be good to be effective fighters and we know how the skill levels on officials are

[wintry mountain]

Yeah, I'm just speaking from experience against even decent tenos

Omni just controlls that fight entirely so it's very easy to just bait attacks and stack bleed on to cripple regen

[fresh laurel]

the buffed buck makes that very hard

[wintry mountain]

It just means you have to pay more attention, but I'd argue that's a good thing

[dusty rune]

if a teno is easy to bait then its not a decent teno

[fresh laurel]

eh, not a fan of the new buck buff plus environmental counters

[fresh laurel]

Theres also that

[wintry mountain]

Buck needed adjustments flat out given it wasn't really performing well as a pounce counter, but there's always room for adjustment

As I stated earlier, it's harder with slower animals because omni undeniably has full control and ability to regen stats much more effectively then they can

[dawn falcon]

Rework pounce and bucking please

[wintry mountain]

Unlike say carno who can keep pressure on omni better

[fresh laurel]

My issue is, buffing buck to such a degree while having environmental counters isnt exactly what I call great

[dusty rune]

changes completely remove skill ceiling while it could be the opposite by just nerfing pounce / tweaking a few things. Most of the changes feel unnecesary and just change for the sake of it

[alpine plover]

bucking is insufferable for omni right now, there is a what - maybe 100 millisecond window from when the animation starts to omni actually losing most of it's stam? Nobody can react to that. The whole interaction would be much easier to digest if the stambar would go down gradually instead of getting instadeleted

[frail bobcat]

you have a good .75 second window before stam gets deleted, that is enough

[wintry mountain]

Having stamina be a gradual decay like other abilities instead of instant blocks is something I fully agree with

[fresh laurel]

how do I put it
omni lands the pounce, it now gets stamina goned in 2 seconds which gives no time to really stack bleed and even if you the omni can get something decent on the target, they could just camp a tree/hill, this would yes make omni hunts A LOT LONGER but then you run the risk of players just playing something like carno due to it

[alpine plover]

i highly doubt it is that long but feel free to provide a source for that claim

[frail bobcat]

Source: it feels like it

[tall bronze]

Hopefully this stuff is looked into with those combat tests Dondi mentioned

[fresh laurel]

its enough but not for stacking bleed

[dusty rune]

tap pouncing had way more value even in update 5 except if your target didnt buck of course

[fresh laurel]

you mean, like having it increase the stamina drain and be chunks gone or...?

[alpine plover]

this is the next problem, you actually have to stay on for at least half a second to actually apply a bleedstack, that is not new and i do not complain about that part, however now we need to weigh that against the actual buck just straight up murdering us within milliseconds? I don't think that interaction belongs in the game

[wintry mountain]

Si

[fresh laurel]

feel people would be against it more because it sounds like a huge buck nerf on paper

I wouldnt mind it, but...

[fresh laurel]

tap pounce sure, but then they start using a tree or hill...

[alpine plover]

https://tenor.com/view/ace-attorney-penalty-penalty-bar-death-ouch-gif-23785205

like this

[fresh laurel]

looks neato

[alpine plover]

it does not even have to have the yellow bar that warns you

just the gradual "melting" looks way more elegant AND it gives the player a chance to react accordingly

[fresh laurel]

I personally dont think pounce reward is exactly great once you compare it with new buck and etc
simple changes would fix this

[wintry mountain]

I am fully on the side of buck being a shield omniraptor needs to break before pounce is fully effective.

But I don't see how reworking the way stam drain is applied would undermine that

[fresh laurel]

shield aspect wouldnt really work imo

[alpine plover]

i mean we don't have to call it shield, just "thick skin" would make sense, i do agree that a steg should take longer pounce appliances before it starts to bleed. btw that also goes directly into the problem that a babyutah can apply bleed to an adult steg which makes NO sense at all (and is actually a gameplay problem when utah players keep on respawning to apply a "cheap" bleed to something much bigger than them)

[fresh laurel]

I imagine its like how even big things can bleed to the smallest of sharp things

[alpine plover]

when was the last time you bled out because of a mosquito bite ^^

[fresh laurel]

mosquitos iirc stop the blood from coming out

[alpine plover]

alright mister. what about a catscratch? checkmate

[fresh laurel]

simple, its not sharp

anyways, you lose like no blood from a baby utah

[alpine plover]

my last cat was a british blue with 13 kg. Trust me when that cat was in fighting mood you DEFINITELY bled from a scratch

[fresh laurel]

nice

anyways I go play gow 5 now
uh buff omni somehow

[alpine plover]

not the point though, it keeps the blood debuff going. Especially problematic if you already deal with an adult bleedstack and some freshspawn opens up that wound again. Plus bleeding does not help with stam regen either so...

k hf

[alpine plover]

Nah, changes are pretty good. You're always going to need refinement

Carno feels good, Raptor feels like it's in the spot it should be in .. a pack animal.

2 or 3 Raptors kills a Carno. 1v1ing it is stupid. That's how it should be.

The glaring issue now is the lack of dinos to flesh out the weight classes. It will always feel slightly lop-sided since there aren't dinos populating different weights to balance one dino over another.

[frail bobcat]

Carno does not feel good, but I wont do this discussion again

[alpine plover]

Carno feels balanced. It truly does. 2 or 3 Raptors kill you, 2 or 3 Tentos is something to not be attacked. Stop thinking in terms of just Tentos and Raptors.

There are suppose to be a whole HOST of other dinos to flesh out the weight classes.

The reason you have predatory dominance is because you lack another predator balance one predator. It's just like in real life, instead you guys are trying to turn it into Call of Duty.

[gritty pawn]

your average carno main here

[alpine plover]

I'm playing Dryo

[gritty pawn]

blaming lack of dinos for poor balance

[alpine plover]

You guys complain about the Carno being able to kill things on land

And the Carno is still out turned and it still has to manage stamina. Tail slams still kill Carnos. Raptor lost auto aim.

[blazing vault]

My main Dino is Carno and last update I had no trouble killing Utahs/Pachys/Tenos on land only issue occur when fighting groups (as it should be) but now Carno is a brain dead 1 trick pony,,, "2 or 3 Raptors kill you"? Don't make me laugh I routinely dominate groups of 6+ Utahs and Teno with ease... as far as Turning goes you almost never even need to turn unless your charging (and that was buffed)... my point being that the Charge on Carno is now a brain dead tool that might as well be an easy button (unless fighting Patchys) which is why I stopped playing Carno... they took all skill out of it and turn it into a right click monster

[alpine plover]

And this is how I know you're lying. You don't have enough stamina to survive 6+ Utah Charges and Bleed

Dude, what is up with you guys telling lies like this. I dont get it

[blazing vault]

Not a lie I can charge 1 kill him and run away get stam and come back and charge another one

[alpine plover]

I mean if two or three get a decent pounce, you're bleeding like a stuck pig. Then on top of that, you have to use stam to even catch them. You're dead meat. Get out of here with your bs

[blazing vault]

Pounce? lol press E once and that Utah is out the fight because he has no stam left

[alpine plover]

Bull, You pounce for 2 or 3 seconds and hop off. What are you even talking about. Obviously you don't play as much as you think you do.

LOL 6+ omg you over exaggerative woman. Get out of here. Embarrassing.

[blazing vault]

That's funny that you still think this nerfed Pounce is still viable (not saying the old way was good either) but if all you do is focused on doing a drive by on canro and don't stick around in prolonged fights there's nothing they can really do your faster then them you can disengage anytime you want and if you let them get that much bleed on to the point where you cant get away then you sir are just being outplayed

[frail bobcat]

Remember the dude that killed 7 omnis as a sub? Balance

[blazing vault]

Exactly

Its no effort now

[alpine plover]

I've killed 5 Carnos as a Omni

1v1

[blazing vault]

Im soo glad the skill gap between you and those particular Carnos was large enough for you to body them good for you sir But for most fights multiple Omnis are getting dominated with no effort by Carnos even Sub carnos

[alpine plover]

I was kidding man. I killed several carnos 1v1 pre this patch. However, as it should be, that shouldn't be happening this patch

The omni out turned the carno to such a degree it was a joke. Omni still out turns carno, but you dont get forgiven as much for mistakes.

As it should be

[frail bobcat]

The charge curbstomps tenos

[blazing vault]

What is there to out turn when you are just charging into them and running away?

[alpine plover]

It doesn't Tenos have the same exact skills as before this patch.

Tentos can still tail slam the carno the same as before.

[frail bobcat]

Two carnos destroy one teno now (because of the op charge) and the kick hit detection is messed up now

[alpine plover]

What it shounds like to me is you guys want to be able to side step every ability the carno has.

[blazing vault]

Yes Its carno thats broken Tenos used to be able to reliable dodge Charge and counter now its soo onesided

[alpine plover]

Before this patch, every freaking dino side stepped the carno with ease.

[blazing vault]

Of course they did Carno is an Ambush preditor. If your using an ambush move in 1v1 its laugable

[alpine plover]

And you still do, but not such a degree you are forgiven for mistake after mistake

If they wanted the Carno to be an ambuhs predator it wouldn't have the ungodly eat rate that it does

[frail bobcat]

Its kinda supposed to be a pursuit predator, which it is now

[alpine plover]

That tells you the devs want the carno in a constant state of motion

Looking for something to kill

[frail bobcat]

But the carno is just too good of a pursuit predator, the hitbox and the charge buff are too much

[frail bobcat]

Open plains pursuit predator

[alpine plover]

The charge buff means it can actually be used, before, EVERYTYHING just side stepped the charge

and that was utterly devestating for consistent play

[frail bobcat]

The turn buff was needed, BUT not to this extent

[alpine plover]

Now, you can still dodge the charge

You just dont get to make mistakes like you did before.

[blazing vault]

Point is there are only 4 viable Dinos now Patchy, Carno, Deino, and Steggo and that sucks... Unless you count PT

[alpine plover]

You actually gotta have some skill to fight a carno

I agree, there's no enough dinos to balance out the current ones in my opinion.

[blazing vault]

It was more balanced last patch

[frail bobcat]

There are, the devs are just not able to do it

[frail bobcat]

Update 5 was bad balancewise, but this is worse

[alpine plover]

I absolutely disagree. You should see the steam charts. Last patch killed player count

Last patch was not fun.

[blazing vault]

last patch lasted too long thats why the player counts dipped

[alpine plover]

No, they also threw balance off. All of us stopped playing.

It just wasn't fun. now you have some challenge and you have to use skill and terrain to your advantage

[frail bobcat]

The peak of u6 release day was far lower than the u5 release day, your argument does not count

[blazing vault]

lol so Patchy, Carno dominating everything but current Apexes is balanced?

[alpine plover]

I cant speak on Pachy. I never player it

[frail bobcat]

Skill, I dominated two omnis while being a 50 % carno

[alpine plover]

All I play is Carno, Raptor, Dryo, Tento, and Ptera

[frail bobcat]

I have played Carno three times

balance

[alpine plover]

Dino, congratulations. You jumped two noobs

You act like there's no skill level.

You act like you should have a built in i win button with your comments.

[frail bobcat]

Arent you the one saying that 3 omnis can take you down?

[blazing vault]

There is no skill now if you know how to charge and keep space on Carno it doesnt take much skill

[alpine plover]

3 Decent omnis will definitely kill you as a Carno. They will bleed out your stam.

[frail bobcat]

#isle-discussion message
Look at that, tell me if this balanced

[alpine plover]

Fought several packs yesterday and you could a difference between those that could play

and those that couldn't

[blazing vault]

lol again your saying Decent Omnis im talking about simular skilled people Carnos win everytime

[alpine plover]

It's a game man, you have to get decent or good at it. That's the point. You should not be able to login and just master a dino.

[frail bobcat]

Kinda like carno is rn?

Being able to log in and master it?

[alpine plover]

Yes .. you have to use a bit of understanding of the game and the dino to fend him off ...

[blazing vault]

Dont need to master Carno at this iteration its busted

[alpine plover]

Yes you do, your stamina will kill you in no time

[frail bobcat]

I can just click RMB right before I hit the target and be fine

And then I turn around and repeat until it dies

[alpine plover]

You mean like a tail slam?

how about you tail slam before you're hit

[blazing vault]

and Omnis could get screwed with there stamina as well.... Its not an inherent weakness to Carno

[alpine plover]

orrrr you turn ...

[frail bobcat]

No, because a tailslam takes skill to time and use

[alpine plover]

OHHH so you just don't like the class and want charge reserved for absolutely nothing

Like running out of a bush

I mean you could just turn .....

It sounds like you haven't mastered how to turn.

[frail bobcat]

Charge can turn too and that a bit too well

[blazing vault]

and tail slam can be baiting by carno very easliy since he can activate charge with just a few steps

[alpine plover]

You may have mastered it LAST patch because ANYTHIng could out turn the carno

But god forbid this patch, you actually gotta time it

Bull, you just want a guranteed dodge and that's bull crap

You know how EASY it was to dodge a carno? It was infinitely easy as a utah.

[blazing vault]

Time it Charge turns so fast now I dont even have to anticipate the enemy turns that much anymore

[alpine plover]

You could run circles all day

[frail bobcat]

People like poutinne are saying that carno charge is too difficult to cancel as a teno now and he was able to kill three carnos solo in the previous patches

[alpine plover]

Really? Plenty of people were dodging it yesterday once they got the timing down in my fights.

To me it sounds like you guys aren't willing to learn how to counter it or play.

[frail bobcat]

And did they manage to dodge it a third or fourth time?

[alpine plover]

The charge is fine, you can still out turn the charge ...

By that time, my stamina was getting low. If I kept missing I run.

[blazing vault]

You cant out turn Dysinc on it tho

[alpine plover]

I bail at about 50% stamina on Carno

[frail bobcat]

Go into balance feedback and tell the people who complain are just bad, well see how they react

[alpine plover]

These are the same guys that thought the raptor was balanced last patch

[blazing vault]

At least Raptor was able to be countered last patch

[frail bobcat]

Balance feedback was full of omni nerfs suggestion

[alpine plover]

As a Raptor .. for you to kill a larger predator, you need a pack.

[blazing vault]

not always the case again sounds like you are trying to take skill out the game

[alpine plover]

Raptor could not be countered as Carno as least. You just ran. The bleed was massive and stamina drain as massive and charge was near useless in a fight.

Are you serious? You're complaining not wanting to time turns on a carno

If you know the carno is g oing to charge, then turn. It stops the charge

Plenty of people were doing it yesterday.

I mean I played it all day, to me it sounds like you guys don't want to have to be threatened by a charging carno and just want to see it telegraphed far enough out for you to turn instead of predicting it

[blazing vault]

No im saying give back the old carno witch admittedly ,ay have needed a small buff not this broken mess

[frail bobcat]

The thing is, we want to time them.
But if we manage to dogde it, we have to wait for three second and the carno is back again

[fresh laurel]

all the bro needed was a nerf to the pounce miss endlag and adjustments to other creatures like bucking MAYBE and bleed resistances

[alpine plover]

Telegraphing the charge ruins it, they DO NOT have the carno built out to be an ambush perdator with a massive nutrition drain rate, obviously there's a disconnect between what you think the carno is and what the devs have it as.

[fresh laurel]

[frail bobcat]

Pounce miss endlag needed to be longer, no tail pounces and a buck rework

[blazing vault]

SO you want a charge that hits people 99% of the time... even if they are prepared for it?

[frail bobcat]

Obviously there is a difference, or else I wouldnt be calling for nerfs

[alpine plover]

So, the charge is in a decent state now. People were dodging it yesterday just fine

You guys just don't play enough to counter it obviously.

[blazing vault]

Decent lol its broken

[frail bobcat]

Decent? Is that a new synonym for OP that I missed?

[fresh laurel]

what are yall talking about?

[frail bobcat]

The dude thinks that carno is fine and not op and we just need to get better

[alpine plover]

how is it broken?? Lol YOU CAN STILL OUT TURN IT

Turn your freaking mouse

[fresh laurel]

🗿

[alpine plover]

You can out turn the chargeeeeeee, turnnnnnnn

[blazing vault]

lol thats why tail hits take 40% of omni health, knocks it down, and all while not even being near it huh

[alpine plover]

I am literally dodging a carno right now as Dryo and i'm sitting in a bush hiding.

Idiot still cannot find me

As it should be, the omni is even in the same weight clawss

Completely different groups of animals

lol

[frail bobcat]

So you are taking the playable with a literal DODGE ability as a argument why it isnt op? Sounds reasonable

[alpine plover]

The issue IS NOT THE CARNO, the issue is lack of playable dinos in different weight classes

[frail bobcat]

The issue is the carno

[blazing vault]

Theres no point in this conversation most people know Patchy/Carno are broken right now and you are entitled to your opinion you guys have fun now bye

[alpine plover]

Yes because you guys were complaining about the Dryo sucking yesterday. No it doesn't

Just juked out a Carno and hid.

[frail bobcat]

If something is op, its the problem of the thing that is op (and the devs who made it op)

[alpine plover]

You guys obviously just need to improve your gameplay

[frail bobcat]

I can do that too, but just into the next forest

[alpine plover]

The Carno isn't op, just turn your mouse like I did

I dodged him for a good 3 or 4 minutes there

[frail bobcat]

This

I would suggest for you to suggest in #balance-feedback on how balanced carno now is. You will see what happens

[alpine plover]

I don't play Pachy, no idea on him. Carno is in a good spot and can be dodged.

2 pachys could dominate a server.

aside from Deino and Stego

[frail bobcat]

Except when two carnos pull up

And destroy them with their charge

[blazing vault]

Im back and sorry Patchy dominated Carno so no

[alpine plover]

Dude a pachy will mess up a carno ... i've had my neck broken so many times charging a pachy

[frail bobcat]

Oh, so pachy is the one of the only things capable of fighting a carno rn?

[blazing vault]

Headbutt beats charge everytime unfortunantly... its the only thing that does

[alpine plover]

Pachy can fight and kill nearly anything.

nearly

No, raptors ran me off plenty from North yesterday. I usually picked a fight with 2 and ran at 3. Too risky. Had two almost kill me, they just knew how to dodge.

[frail bobcat]

Those hypsis are too much for it

[alpine plover]

😂

And they played my stamina against me. I think they were in voice though, they were pretty hardcore.

[blazing vault]

and how did they even hit you? did you stop next to them?\

[alpine plover]

Naw? I picked a fight and circled with them while the other pounced

They got two pounces in and, my worst hit were tail hits. They were just good.

[blazing vault]

your playing this version of Carno wrong then

[alpine plover]

Nah, they were just good players.

And timed it down unlike other packs

[frail bobcat]

Carno is a charge spam rn

[alpine plover]

I'm a medium players. I wouldn't say I'm great or anything, but they definitely coordinated.

[blazing vault]

Nah if you play towards Carnos strengh (charge) they will ever have a chance to hit you

[alpine plover]

Nah, you can actually use it in combat right now, but the stamina drain is still high

[blazing vault]

so you run away before that happens and get you stam back

[alpine plover]

Dude .. you only have so much stamina, you cannot spam charge

Right .. i ran away but I was bleeding. They pounced

They knew how to play

[blazing vault]

Again charge once maybe get a kill then RUN AWAY to get Stam, its not hard

[alpine plover]

Chased me down, but I managed to hide.

Dude .. a charge doesn't kill an adult raptor. What are you talking about.

[blazing vault]

again i said maybe get a kill

MAYBE

[alpine plover]

My point is made. I just dodged a Carno for 3 or so minutes as dryo on the plains, made it to the woods. Raptors still pose a threat in packs.

People were complaining about the Dryo dodge yesterday and It worked for me.

It's just playstyle for the most part imo.

[blazing vault]

and people will always use the most broken playstyle and Carno/Patchy has that now

[alpine plover]

I'm going to be honest .. there's not much to play ...

I would really like to see several more dinos added .

We just need more dinos

and proper balancing

we need both

[blazing vault]

I agree with you wholeheartedly what makes people mad is why make the balance worse while we wait for more dinos

[alpine plover]

I would like to just get more dinos before all these drastic balance passes.

And see what people think

[hollow canyon]

Damn it's actually impressive how many things someone can be wrong about in one message

Glad that you realised I was talking about you, I think I haven't seen that much misinformation in one message yet

[wise obsidian]

All the "misinformation" you are pointing out was my own gameplay experiences and testing done through scopeog's server

I didnt grab this from a random person lol

[hollow canyon]

your gameplay experience and testing are really bad then

[wise obsidian]

I cant really fix and verify what you claim is misinformation when you dont even tell me what's wrong

[hollow canyon]

a/ Carno's bleed resistance was untouched, it's the same as it was and lower than that of any other playable
b/ Tenonto's damage was untouched and I even made sure that it wasn't bugged in any way and accidentally changed - it's the same it was since U4
c/ Deino's weight and speed changes are a part of the global change to growth curves

every playable gains weight, damage and speed faster now so that they don't AFK for 90% of their growth

[frail bobcat]

Which is good

[hollow canyon]

it obviously is good

even very good

[frail bobcat]

Subs are useful now, in some cases too useful (subcarno)

[hollow canyon]

you now actually play the game instead of afking in a bush

having said that - some of them could really be toned down

[wise obsidian]

Of course, the weight scaling is a good thing. It's just a problem when it comes to the 2 apexes

[hollow canyon]

Carno, Stego and Deino speed are too high at subadult

[frail bobcat]

Doesnt sub stego rock 34 kmh or something like that

[hollow canyon]

I'm fine with it on Stego, Deino could perhaps get fat a bit slower but I don't really view it as a big problem, this playable exists in its own environment and lives its life on its own track anyways

[hollow canyon]

both Deino and Stego reach that speed yea

[frail bobcat]

On land?

[hollow canyon]

I think Stego goes over that but don't quote me on this it's just my suspicion, I don't play Stego

[hollow canyon]

yea on land

[wise obsidian]

This weight scaling allows it to live on land before it reaches fresh adult, so it effectively does not live on its own track

[hollow canyon]

and Stego is even faster so....

[hollow canyon]

I haven't really noticed that yet but I kind of doubt that since this thing dehydrates in a blink of an eye

[wise obsidian]

Its not that hard to go back for a sip of water and then run back to where you want to be

[frail bobcat]

If a stego finds it and . . . oh yeah, stegos dont exist anymore (cause of op carnos killing the juvies)

[hollow canyon]

well that still severely limits just how far you can go without losing health

[hollow canyon]

wat? I've literally seen a horde of like 6 yesterday or today

Stegos aren't played that much only because it's a gore update

[frail bobcat]

I just saw one

[hollow canyon]

meaning that everyone jumped on carnivores to test them

[frail bobcat]

Maybe I am just wrong then

[hollow canyon]

give it a week or two and it will be back to normal

I see Stegos just fine they aren't quite as numerous but I'm surprised they are even this popular considering that everyone wants to play with gore which is a carnivore-exclusive

[frail bobcat]

Except more carnos

[hollow canyon]

Carno will get nerfed, same with Pachy

both of these animals are obviously overtuned

[wise obsidian]

a) I will test this again, but as far as i have noticed, shadow nerfs/buffs are persistent throughout this update
b) Tenonto's kick damage was tested by 2 separate parties and it was nerfed by 60/65. Tail slam was nerfed as well but im not sure about the exact value
c) Already discussed

[hollow canyon]

there's no need to point that out in every feedback, if you want to say something constructive bring forth some suggestions as to how to tone them down

[hollow canyon]

Tenonto's damage was unchanged since U4 I tested it - both kick and the slam and got exactly the same results I've been getting for a year now

Carno dies to 5 kicks/tailslams on its head

which it wouldn't be dying to if the damage got nerfed by 60/65

on either of those skills

give me a sec I will find the video

if you're needing more hits to kill something that means locational is getting in the way of testing - you're either hitting the legs or the arms

or the base of the tail

each one of those has a lower locational multiplier than the body

and will skew the results hard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XWp2vccTbk

5 hits to kill a Carno same as on any update since U4

there were no changes to Teno whoever did that testing just did it wrong, it's as simple as that

[warm saffron]

i knew it

carno just catches tenon and wins 9/10

and the tailslam is only even easy to hit if your target is holding still

which 9/10 it isnt sjh skjdkjs

it should get that damage back
it was fine before, loved playing it, now its kinda just there to be there.