balance-feedback-discussion

[flint jacinth]

A lot of legacy players moved to evrima

[hasty coyote]

To be fair, lunge has always been a bit funky. However, I haven’t used it this update and they said it got fixed

[vernal summit]

to the game? Not very, ive been playing for awhile, I know how broken it is, I recently got the beta because I wanted to see the new dinos, but its just as broken.

[hexed sorrel]

but SURELY you knew that deinos could drown stuff, what else would lunge be used for? show?

[vernal summit]

See, another player lol, its not "my skill" its the game mechanic

[hollow canyon]

again - what did you do while lunging the other person? Did you press rmb?

[vernal summit]

You press the rmb to lunge lol

[hexed sorrel]

but you literally said deino 'can't' lunge things

[mystic cedar]

I'm telling you rn that your doing something wrong, you can sit here and blame the game hut itll get you nowhere. Go practice and get better because he was right, it is definitely a skill issue, ik you hate to hear it but its tru

[hexed sorrel]

hold

[flint jacinth]

No I know that, I just mean that these legacy players probably aren’t used to how evrima works because legacy was so straight forward

[golden coral]

@vernal summitWell, lunge has worked more often than not for me. You need to click and hold RMB, so you're holding on, same way you'd do with pounce. I've even on some few occassions managed to "sneak" up on a critter on land, grab them and carry them back to drown them.

[hollow canyon]

Yea you have to hold it, not just press it

[vernal summit]

They havent used it, and I havent seen it used by anyone, so how akm I to know it exists if the game doesnt work right?

[hexed sorrel]

you just have to hold right click

[mystic cedar]

Are you holding lunge or pressing it

[hexed sorrel]

you probably press it

[hasty coyote]

I’m not saying the mechanic is broken either. Just that hit registration was bad in the past, but utah was the same, and now look at it.

[mystic cedar]

Cuz if you let go, you let go of whatever you grbabed

[vernal summit]

I press it, like a bite lol, lunging isnt grabbing.

When you jump, you dont hold anything lol

[hexed sorrel]

utahs have a magnet in their bodies

[flint jacinth]

💀

[vernal summit]

you just jump, you press your legs

[hollow canyon]

you're doing it wrong then

[mystic cedar]

LMFAOOOO

[hollow canyon]

You need to hold it, if you let go you release your prey

[hexed sorrel]

DEFINITELY a broken game

[flint jacinth]

Bro you have to hold right click

[vernal summit]

Cool ill give it a try if I ever play again

[hollow canyon]

https://youtu.be/UnQXoaeRYT4?t=535

[hasty coyote]

It is grabbing, lunge is a hold, then (while holding it) you drag them into the water.

[hollow canyon]

look here, this guy kills via lunge

[hexed sorrel]

ahhh good ol' pete

[mystic cedar]

That's what we are trying to tell you, the games not broken! Lunging IS grabbing

[hollow canyon]

This is what holding RMB does

[vernal summit]

Nice, I dont watch much youtube on it lol

[hexed sorrel]

it IS broken, but not for that reason

[hollow canyon]

if you just release it you will let go off it straight away

[mystic cedar]

Lmfaooo your right on that

[hexed sorrel]

no like I cant fight on more than 15 fps

don't worry guys, im SURE they'll fix it in 6 months

[vernal summit]

You never once said it until just these last few sentences, you were too busy crying about "HOW BAD YOU ARE!!!!" to say anything else

[flint jacinth]

Or 8

[hexed sorrel]

PLEASE prove me wrong devs

[mystic cedar]

I assumed you knew what you were talking about because you were saying "these guys are cringey telling me how to play my dino" I assumed you knew how to play your dino lmfao, guess not

[vernal summit]

Like, im fine with learning and being new, but my experience as a specific dino has been horrible due to no formal explanation or full fixed mechanics

[vernal summit]

Nobody ever mentioned a grab, I knew it lunged but I assumed it was just a second bite attack lmao

[hexed sorrel]

yeah they don't got a tutorial yet. which the game DESPERATELY needs, if I see one more carno player say "carno dies with 1 utah pounce" im gonna lose it

[vernal summit]

Like I said, not everything is perfect, the game to me is fun and can be great, but the devs dont put too much love into the base of the game.

They rush to push out dinos and get money

[hexed sorrel]

complete opposite I feel

[vernal summit]

Someone here even said they are trying to push out the stego lol

[hollow canyon]

they really aren't pushing out dinos at all

[flint jacinth]

Lmao

[mystic cedar]

Wrong lmfao, they rarely release dinosuars

[hollow canyon]

My guy - the last dino that was released was released over half a year ago

as things stand they have release 1 playable in over 400 days

[vernal summit]

They even admitted the devs are pushing out dinos lol

[hexed sorrel]

also they dont put out 50 Dlc's animalia moment and they said they will never put out dlc's, so they aren't in for money

[hollow canyon]

I don't think you understand what was being said there

[hexed sorrel]

wait this isn't balance, we should talk about it somewhere else

[hollow canyon]

Stego was released because it was prepared to be an AI-only animal

[vernal summit]

Pushing out dinos instead of releasing a base game that works well isnt a good thing to do

[hollow canyon]

it turned out that the artificial intelligence is NOT on an acceptable level for it to be released as an NPC

they therefore have turned it into a playable

[hasty coyote]

All all i said was that they pushed out stego because it was ready at the time. Not that they are trying to push out dinos

[hollow canyon]

to at least have some use out of it

[hollow canyon]

the idea that The Isle devs are pushing out dinos is just... absolutely bizarre

[hexed sorrel]

yeah even if they do, they are putting quality animations unlike cough p.o.t

[mystic cedar]

Bro your not listening, they do not push out dinos lmfao, we rarely get new onrs

[hollow canyon]

they have released 1 DINOSAUR over the last 400 days

[mystic cedar]

This dude just makes stuff up I swear

[hollow canyon]

1 playable in over a year

[hasty coyote]

that is literally their plan atm, they are putting in core mechanics first, then focusing on dinos.

[vernal summit]

half the dinos have issues, and the other half are overly powerful. No testing is done lol

if the stego was balanced, it would not swing 5 attakcs in 2 seconds

[mystic cedar]

It doesnt

[hexed sorrel]

it doesn't

however

[hasty coyote]

because it cant, takes at minimum over a second for a swing

[mystic cedar]

Just cuz your spewing shit doesn't make it tru

[hexed sorrel]

it DOES have that STupid ass side swing with no retract animation

[vernal summit]

It does, it hit me 3 times withing 3 seconds and got me to half HP lol, I was a Deino at the time

[hollow canyon]

it doesn't

[hollow canyon]

it didn't

[hexed sorrel]

Stego>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deino by 50000

[mystic cedar]

It didnt tho your exaggerating

[hasty coyote]

yeah that is a problem tho

[flint jacinth]

Swings aiming forward are faster then left to right I think

[vernal summit]

It did lol, you calling me a liar?

[hollow canyon]

Stegosaurus needs over 3 seconds to attack 3 times

[hollow canyon]

I'm calling you misinformed

[vernal summit]

Youre delusional

[hollow canyon]

I know what Stegosaurus attack rate is, I tested it myself

[mystic cedar]

The irony

[hollow canyon]

the fastest a Stegosaurus can attack is every 1.1 seconds

[hexed sorrel]

LMAO the fucking sophisticated way of saying you're a liar

[hollow canyon]

the slowest it can attack is 1.6 seconds

[hexed sorrel]

TO BE FAIR that is pretty bad

[hasty coyote]

if theres one thing I have learned: don't question aken's numerical data.

[vernal summit]

It swung the first time, hit me, then immediately hit me again, then the third time was a second after that one. Its too fast to get any damage on it

[hollow canyon]

it depends on what angle it attacks from

[hexed sorrel]

dont 1v1 a stego.

[vernal summit]

I dont follow people lol

im not a sheep

[hollow canyon]

as in - pretty fast? It's slightly slower than the attack rate of most other animals

it's only faster than Deinos base bite

[hexed sorrel]

yeah but the D.P.S is mad

[vernal summit]

There was 1 stego and 3 Deinos lol, we were trying to kill it but it was too fast in attack

[hollow canyon]

Stego does have the fastest attack in the game ironically but

[hexed sorrel]

it does like more than 2x deino bite

[hollow canyon]

its on its bite

Stego has the fastest bite rate in the game... for gods know what reason

[hexed sorrel]

stego > 3 deinos because balance 😎

[mystic cedar]

You should because the things that your making up about this game are just wrong, deino isnt weak, dinosaurs do swim slow, and stegos cant swing "5 times in 2 seconds"

[hasty coyote]

if it uses the quick side swing: over 1k dps
deino has less than 500 dps

[hollow canyon]

arguable - Deino's alt bite is exactly 500 dps

[hexed sorrel]

nah but fr tho 6 bites on the head on stego for deino is ridiculous

[hasty coyote]

is it exactly a second? i thought it was like 1.1 or something

[hollow canyon]

it is exactly 1 second on the alt bite

[hexed sorrel]

especially when stego can just wiggle that little ass thing around

[vernal summit]

I live through experience lol, Ill even record the game play lol. Ill try again and show how bad the game is

[hollow canyon]

the basic bite is slower than that having a DPS of 333

It has an attack cooldown of 1.5 seconds

[hexed sorrel]

bro how do you even calculate t hat 💀

[hasty coyote]

ah, ok then, thought they had roughly the same timer

[hasty coyote]

500/1.5

[hexed sorrel]

oh.

[hollow canyon]

very annoying and a long process

[hollow canyon]

oh you meant the dps for the normal bite

yea that's easy

I thought you meant the attack rates those I do via recording and calculating how long it takes

[hexed sorrel]

update 5.5: changed every numerical value of every dinosaur

[hollow canyon]

they have been doing that I still generally calculated this stuff but yea idk if I'd bother to do that again

especially that I really don't like the game as it is right now

[hexed sorrel]

yeah cuz you'd need it for the next 9 months

[vernal summit]

Deino bite attack is slow, but it reflects it well enough, Deino bite is ok, imo it could use a small speed increase but thats just me. the stego attacks like a minigun shooting 3000RPM and kills Deinos pretty quickly, as I was a Deino and in 3 fast attacks I ewas at half HP from an adult Stego lol

[hexed sorrel]

I swear if update 5.5 doesnt come within the next 4 weeks im punching someone

[vernal summit]

Why push for shitty outcomes?

[hollow canyon]

Are you using alt bites?

[vernal summit]

the main bite? the lmb bite?

[hexed sorrel]

if they aren't gonna add any new big dinos soon, they REALLy need to make this Deino vs stego matchup better

[hexed sorrel]

alt+lmb

[hollow canyon]

that has a much lower attack rate than the alt bite

alt+lmb lets you attack faster than Stego does

[vernal summit]

Ive been saying that here for the last 2 hours and yall just call me shit for saying it lol

[hasty coyote]

The only reason I would see it not coming out is because of some random bugs causing chaos or they release another patch in between and want to see how that settles

[hollow canyon]

no, technically we've been saying that you are wrong about multiple things regarding the game like Stego's attack rate, Deino's lunge and so on, I don't necessarily disagree that the match up is too much in Stego's favour

[hexed sorrel]

nah, what you said was: Stego is a minigun, stego hits 3 times in 1 second, the game is broken because I don't know the controls.

[hexed sorrel]

HOW tho? all they are adding is nightvision

a cheeky balance patch I wouldn't mind

[hasty coyote]

you never know. they did literally nothing to fish, yet now they're flying

[hexed sorrel]

flying fish best fish

[vernal summit]

No, I said, Stego hits 3 times within 3 seconds and its broken because you cannot get any hits on it as it just kills you in 5 hits.

[hasty coyote]

or that one "hotfix" that caused dryo to crash everyone around, and then the subsequent 5 patches fixing new issues that sprung up.

[hexed sorrel]

5 headshots*

[hollow canyon]

it doesn't hit three times within 3 seconds, it will need a fraction of the fourth second to get the third attack off

[hexed sorrel]

you probably fight stego on land right?

[hollow canyon]

its highest attack rate is still slightly below 1/second

[hexed sorrel]

I DO feel deino should be able to kill stego a BIT faster

if it is drinking and deino gets like 3 headshots, the stego is still half hp? why

[vernal summit]

Stegos have huge range and can swim after you, I got hit from this far away lmaoooo

[hasty coyote]

they have big range, yes, and it is only extended by lag. However, they cant really swim after you because they're slower and cant swing while swimming

[vernal summit]

He fucking jumped into the water and hit me from 2 body lengths away.. where I am at in that photo he hit me from, as you can see where he is standing and he swung at me lol

[hasty coyote]

if you were running away from them at the time, that was probably lag. otherwise you're likely exaggerating the range a bit

[vernal summit]

I was floating at the shoreline, I was in the water, he was on land with other stegos, and he came all the way into the water, swam at me and hit me, then ran off.

I didnt take a screenshot because I didnt expect him to charge a baby Deino and attack me lmao

[hasty coyote]

sounds about right, stegs have nothing better to do other than mess with crocs. Hopefully we can get something that can threaten the stegs more somewhat soon.

[vernal summit]

Make the stegos killable?

Thats an idea

When I bring up an issue in the game that needs to be fixed, its an actual issue... like the water for baby Deinos, and probably all other dinos. You cant drink as a baby Deino...

[eternal musk]

Logically anyrhing could get taken down by a crocs. Maybe not hippos. Well apperently dieno don’t need to drink

[vernal summit]

Adult Deinos can drink

but babies cannot

[eternal musk]

But yea if they are migrating on land then maybe. Lol But ya I saw the drinking I don’t know how I feel about that .

[vernal summit]

Game is broken and these guys call me the problem lol

Im posting evidence of the issues I am bringing up lmao

[mystic cedar]

Didnt you blame the game because you didnt know to hold lunge for a grab

[hollow canyon]

@lament current the answer to your question of "WHO does enjoy this?!" is "Utah mains" - they certainly do

I'd highly suggest to give Carno a pass for now, it's just not very good on the current patch if you're playing against people of similar skill level

it still works very well against people that are kind of bad at the game though so there's that

[lament current]

@hollow canyon So everyone else beside stego is only there to serve utah mains fun? Doesnt sound right to me

[hollow canyon]

Well think about it this way - Utah has been really bad for almost a year now due to its main mechanic being just completely broken

and working as an in-game form of Russian roulette - you either win and it works as intended or it gets you killed on the spot because yous tart hanging in the air or get knocked down for no reason

during this time Utahraptor received a plethora of buffs which were supposed to help it in one way or another

those buffs in all the honesty were pretty much completely unnecessary, the thing that this animal needed was for its pounce to be fixed

now it got fixed and it working properly compiled on top of all the buffs this animal has received turned it into an absolute menace

as for Stegosaurus - this animal is a complete misunderstanding and should not even be in the game at this stage, the game is currently being designed with a roster of small animals in mind

Stego ended up in the game by sheer accident - it was supposed to be an non-playable AI-controlled creature that you could hunt in packs and groups

however due to the fact that the artificial intelligence had a tonne of short-comings the devs had to put making it AI on hold and decided that since the bloody thing has been animated already it could just be released as a playable without much additional effort

this animal even feels like it was meant to be an AI-bot

its attack is just really weird and fighting it feels like fighting some weird boss in a combat-based game

that's because I believe that's what it was supposed to be

a large animal that you'd hunt in a group and try to cheese its weird attack by baiting it and having someone else attack

The state of the current balance is a result of all the events that were taking place during the development prior to now

Carno has been nerfed over and over again since it came out

it's the largest terrestrial carnivore and a dedicated small game hunter... in a roster full of small animals that in reality it should be hunting

everyone flocked to it for these reasons

[grave veldt]

My main Issue with pounce is still that it acts like a magnet even after pouncing at the face

[neat girder]

But isn't stego creating a really toxic atmosphere?

[hollow canyon]

and the community was fed up with it and asked for nerfs

[grave veldt]

Wdym?

[hollow canyon]

Stego shouldn't even be in the game right now

[neat girder]

A lot of stegos strait up behave like carnivorea

Its so dumb and frustrating

[hollow canyon]

it creates a tonne of issues but the devs aren't just going to remove it because it makes our experience worse

[neat girder]

Like i was literally just playing croc

And a pack of stegos were fishing my family

Literally

[grave veldt]

I genuinely don’t know how that happens

[neat girder]

It was clearly not amazibg playing experience

[grave veldt]

Deino can just dive under

[neat girder]

It can, but you kinda need to go on the surface

To eat

[grave veldt]

I mean yes sure but just hide under till stegos leave

[neat girder]

And the bloody things followed us down the river

They persisted

[grave veldt]

They probably followed u due to lighting issue

Currently the lighting on the water makes it so animals can see what’s underneath

[neat girder]

I just dont understand what is a design desision behind this

Like legacy rex is filling the same role

[lament current]

But all these nerfing and buffing.... never in game industry history anywhere you became a balanced game by simply buffing and nerfing stuff. You need to rethink mechanics, watch the players behaviour and the problems coming with and how you can interrupt it somehow. And see just the models and if there ability makes scens in the first place. Like as many told already baby utahs makes carno bleed or teno makes more bleed than a hunter and so many more. HOOOW can you not see this as dev.

[neat girder]

But he feels much more fair

And killable

But as for stegos

If its not 15 utahs

You are screwed

Basically

[hollow canyon]

Trust me - hearing the crying about Carno being too strong and oppressive 24/7 definitely had an effect on them. The sad part is that hunting small animals like Utah, Pachy and Tenonto is literally what Carno is supposed to be doing.

This animal is likely going to get absolutely dumpstered by the future additions

such as Diabloceratops, Kentrosaurus, Allosaurus or Suchomimus

[grave veldt]

I still feel like charge is not very helpful imo

[hollow canyon]

and now we will be stuck with a small game hunter that is very mediocre if not bad at hunting small game and completely incapable of doing anything else

The community no comprende how the game is supposed to be working basically

[neat girder]

Evrima overall feels really strange balance-wise

[lament current]

Yea but than make the others for example run little faster than you and only your charge run is faster than them so you have to manage your stamina and aim with your charge - Balance :0 But not jusz nerf it to the ground

[modern kettle]

is it just me or is it literally impossible to find other players in evirma? I'll play for hours and see one player

[lament current]

And pachy like run fast but low stamina but high stamina regeneration so you always have to run and hide, regen quick, run and hide etc

[neat girder]

Depends on a server most likely

[modern kettle]

the server was nearly full though

[lament current]

There many ways and could spit out tons of balance ideas but nerfing and buffing doenst bring anything

Yea @modern kettle as i wrote in other ticket my number 1 reason of death in 9 out 10 reasons is starvation because i just cant find other players or AIs and stamina is to low than you could travel around and by the time you need to travel to find something you starves to death

Noice....

[modern kettle]

Yeah I almost always starve, sometimes i'll get lucky and find a spot with some fish in a river but for the most part i just run around and die

[hollow canyon]

The game is really unfriendly towards the new players or perhaps more so - "the players that aren't in the know"

[lament current]

And I was even using a map for the most effective way btw but still no chance at all... just straved to death like an total idiot

[hollow canyon]

Do you guys have access to the maps showing the AI spawns?

[hollow canyon]

fair

As for now - there are seemingly some issues with the AI respawn rates

[lament current]

As I said i do use map but still no chance at all

[hollow canyon]

so that might be having some effect

[lament current]

Not even a blink of a chance

[modern kettle]

is there an ingame map or is it something u find online?

[hollow canyon]

you have to find it online

[modern kettle]

O

[lament current]

@hollow canyon And even if as i wrote before AIs gives waaaay too less hungery

[hollow canyon]

I can DM it to you

[modern kettle]

no its ok i can find it online

[hollow canyon]

Alright, GL as Daywalker said you might still have some issues

[modern kettle]

oo blog post

[hollow canyon]

you basically have to go for the areas unoccupied by other players

[lament current]

As carno you need to eat tons of pigs or anything in order to survive. Beside the fact that you dont find them

Like imagine how big his stomach must be when there like 5 pigs inside xD

It just feels wierd when you ate up a stego where you know its like 2 tons at that stage and shortly after you die of starvation.... its like: Ok?!?!?! Makes sence

But as a 6 ton stego you bite in a sunflower and your 6 ton stomach is full for ever it seems like. Wtf....

[neat girder]

He is good all around

I dont understand the whole nerf carno thing

All the time i see carnos

They are being bullied by a pack of utahs

[keen plover]

"Most fresh kills impact carnivores positively. But rotting flesh may be too septic for some carnivores to eat or for some animals to even be around. " Gore that forces herbis to move from kills?

So rotten gore will make some creatures (carni, herbi, omni) just run off

[tranquil pawn]

[marble vector]

what were you doing when you died?

[analog mirage]

Carno is as it should be against everything besides Utahs. Utahs are a little overtuned atm and only change Carno really needs is more ai to spawn and maybe a hunger buff

[marble vector]

I would like to see it's nutrients gain a little faster. It feels like carno has to eat faster then an animal that is played as a scavange/ambush predator.

[analog mirage]

Nutrients are fine, just needs more food to be around

Also it is a ambush predator

Not really a scavenger

[marble vector]

Agreed. If ai spawn was more like rivers (elite fish), then carno could at least have some small nutrient buffs for longer while hunting to fill in the gaps.

[analog mirage]

Why would it hunt fish?

Just spawn more boar and other animals

Also the food values need to go back to where they were

They messed too much with food this update which is why it feels like you are constantly hunting

[zealous citrus]

Yeah also diets in genral needing rework

[marble vector]

Well, I saw for myself right now. 2 full grown deino and 2 juvie trying to take down a stego in shallow water. A little bit far fetched that a stego can come into the water and own the space.

Kinda bonkers

[frail bobcat]

@proud anchor utah has the second best stam in the game, the best stam regen (i think). It can run for 105 seconds

And did you notice how much stam a carno charge burns

[proud anchor]

Still outstammed by Carno.

[frail bobcat]

The carno runs 55 kmh fast for 60 seconds, utah 46.8 for 105 seconds. Quick math should do the job

[proud anchor]

Yes, but I had a Carno engage me, across a massive field while I was full stam. I starting running when he was about 100 yards away. He burned his stam to ram and catch up, and further burned my entire stam bar down to the point where I couldn't jump, and was still sprinting at me.

The fact is, the Utah's stam isn't enough.

[frail bobcat]

That carno cheated

[proud anchor]

I don't know of any cheats that give you that kind of stam.

[frail bobcat]

There are stam cheats

[proud anchor]

Interesting, and also fuck that guy.

[frail bobcat]

See, utah does not need better stam

[proud anchor]

I can't be so sure. Explaining it away with cheats, sure is an easy way out, but if that's the case, Utah needs more stam to combat cheaters

[frail bobcat]

I hope you are not serious

[proud anchor]

I can't confirm this person was using cheats.

[frail bobcat]

Sounds like it

[proud anchor]

So you're saying because I started sprinting (at a massive gap) before the Carno, that by the time my stam was depleted, the Carno should have been tired 40 seconds before my stam ran out?

And even sooner since they engaged a charge*.

[frail bobcat]

It charged too?

It should have ran out sooner than you

[hollow canyon]

sounds like hacks cause Carno covers significantly less ground than Utah with a full stam bar.

[proud anchor]

Interesting, and unfortunate.

[hollow canyon]

Utah covers like 50% more ground than Carno does

[proud anchor]

I was VERY confused, to say the least.

[hollow canyon]

Utah can run for almost 1.5km with its stamina bar, Carno doesn't even get to 1km

iirc 920m vs 1350m in favour of Utah

[proud anchor]

I don't play Carno, and that felt extremely overpowered given I was keeping them at a MASSIVE distance, just to get run down a full stam bar. Lol.

[hollow canyon]

Yea no, infinite stamina is one of the most common hacks in this game I'd bet it was that cause Carno runs out of steam long before Utah does

[proud anchor]

Needless to say the math doesn't check out, since I've already done this math in a much more elaborate previous example. I'll go dig that up.

#balance-feedback message

Basically, the Carno is much faster than the game lets on, or the Utah is much slower.

[hollow canyon]

Yea no, that is... so insanely wrong it makes my head hurt

Carno gapcloses 100m onto Utah within 40 seconds if the two are running in a straight line

how in the world that person is getting 1.5 hours is incomprehensible to me

yea actually is very much understandable - they are calculating completely wrong stuff

simple math yet still too difficult for people clearly

nvm they just didn't convert the units and probably thought the cars are 150KILOmetres from one another and not 150METRES from one another

that is also nothing like the example you're talking about in the game it's baffling why you're even bringing those calculations up here

[silk harness]

@proud anchor I can confirm there are infinite stamina hacks/glitches. I was in the same situation as you except I was a carno being chased by another carno. We were both full adult and I had perfect diet.

He started running at me from a few hundred feet away, I immediately started running in the opposite direction. He used charge to catch up to me and continued trying to charge me while I juked without ever charging. I eventually ran out of stam and started trotting while he continued sprinting around me and trying to charge. We facetanked a few times, both got low on health, and he sprinted away while I was completely stammed and almost dead.

[hollow canyon]

Yea there are infinite stamina hacks, they are quite common in this game overall

I've ran into multiple people using them

[silk harness]

I'm sure lots of people use them but it's hard to spot unless you're in a a really specific situation like that

[hollow canyon]

You just run for a long, long time and run out of stamina despite having a greater stam pool and yet some Carno just keeps on going after you for a few minutes without stopping

In my experience they typically used a combination of infinite stamina + name tags

basically that thing which shows them where you are all the time

so they just sprint across the map to you

I tagged admins and they sorted those people out typically though

Goddamn I've read the feedback that started this whole discussion only now and damn that's bad

[silk harness]

Yeah I understand the confusion but if OP played carno they'd realize how terrible its stam is compared to utah

Without cheats at least, lol

[proud anchor]

Was eating o7 Lemme catch up.

[hollow canyon]

that math is completely wrong fyi

and nothing like the example you're using

[proud anchor]

Yeah, my math makes sense, for sure.

[hollow canyon]

Read what they're saying there it really doesn't take a genius to figure out why that is completely wrong

[proud anchor]

I get that. What it explains is why it's not so simple.

[silk harness]

The question is using meters and the answer is using km lol

[hollow canyon]

it IS simple though

it's just completely wrong there because...

[hollow canyon]

^ of that

the two cars are 150 METRES away from one another and they are moving at speeds of 45km/h and 55km/h TOWARDS one another

and it somehow takes them 90 minutes to meet?

Do I need to spell out why that is obviously and absolutely wrong?

Not to mention it has absolutely and completely NOTHING to do with what you're bringing up in the game

you're talking about Utahraptor RUNNING AWAY from a Carno

[proud anchor]

Anyway

[hollow canyon]

not a Utahraptor running towards a Carno that is running towards it

[proud anchor]

Since you're so up in arms about nothing I'll be ignoring you.

[frail bobcat]

Good discoussion you can do with persons that disagree with you

[hollow canyon]

I'm not up in arms about it, I'm just telling you that the calculations you are bringing up are:
a/ not representative of what you're talking about in the game
b/ completely wrong with regard to what they are about

it's like a full set of wrongness

[silk harness]

lmao. I didn't even catch that its calculating time towards eachother and not moving in the same direction

[proud anchor]

They're not disagreeing with me, they're disagreeing with some dude on Quora. Lol.

[hollow canyon]

dw I'm disagreeing with you too

[proud anchor]

My post was linked.

If you can't understand the math, go ahead and fix it

[hollow canyon]

I already have

[proud anchor]

What's the correct answer?

[hollow canyon]

I told you in the very beginning - a Carnotaurus takes ~40 seconds to gapclose 100 metres on a Utah

40 seconds

39 and a bit technically

[proud anchor]

It doesn't take that.

It takes maybe 10 if that.

[hollow canyon]

if the Utah would be standing in place yea

[proud anchor]

Currently, no.

[hollow canyon]

I'm assuming it's running AWAY from the Carno which is what you suggested you were doing

[proud anchor]

Mind you, I'm speaking in Ft.

[hollow canyon]

then again - I'm making a big assumption here trusting that what you were saying is indeed correct and you were actually 100 m away from that Carno

[proud anchor]

That carno is different than the carno in the post.

[hollow canyon]

you're speaking in "feet"?

[proud anchor]

In the post.

The post I linked was from ages ago.

#balance-feedback message

The post linked. ☝️ With the proper math.

Different conversation entirely, however.

If they were 5mph apart in top speed, it would take 13s to close a 100ft gap.

The issue is... Is that the speeds are highly inaccurate given the community's perception of in-game speeds.

I would say if the Utah is 30mph, the Carno is 60mph.

The disconnect coming likely from relative size.

[hollow canyon]

Idk why you're even bringing miles into these calculations

[proud anchor]

Imagine converting units of measurement?

I'm done speaking with you...

[hollow canyon]

what in the world are you doing in general? You're just adding additional numbers that you're converting and rounding up the numbers making them less and less accurate to the real thing

[hollow canyon]

they aren't

You literally have the numbers for them in the game - they are clearly stated there

[proud anchor]

Look, dude.

If you're going to just disagree without actually putting fourth information that is factual, I'd ask you to just stop typing all together.

[hollow canyon]

I literally did

If a Utahraptor runs in a straight line while having a 100m advantage over Carno it will take Carno 39-40 seconds to catch up to that Utahraptor

admittedly you stated it was 100 "yards" away which would make that time marginally shorter

I believe that would bring it down to around ~35-36 seconds

this is of course assuming the Carno doesn't use its charge

[proud anchor]

The issue is, is that's got no math with it, it's just your 'matter of fact' without an calculations.

[frail bobcat]

Recalculate it

[hollow canyon]

It does have maths with it though

I just calculated it on the spot, it really isn't hard

[frail bobcat]

Utah covers 13 per second and carno covers 15,3 meters per seconds

[hollow canyon]

^ pretty much

[frail bobcat]

I Dont know the excact value of the carno speed

[proud anchor]

(and that's a problem)

[hollow canyon]

it's around 15.5m/s iirc

either way it will need some ~40 seconds to gapclose 100 metres

it's really not very complicated

[frail bobcat]

But its 55 kmh

[hollow canyon]

is it not 56km/h?

[frail bobcat]

Dunno something between that

[hollow canyon]

either way that won't make big of a difference

[proud anchor]

30mph and 35mph respectively.

[hollow canyon]

I literally have no idea why he's converting all the speed values to mph while having them in metric in the game, it's just so bizarre

Dude... what does that have to do with the game?

[proud anchor]

That it's wrong.

[frail bobcat]

Utah in the isle has to be used for that calculation . . .

[proud anchor]

So what is the Utah's speed, then?

[hollow canyon]

no, no, let him use some random numbers he found on the internet, that will definitely give him legit results

[frail bobcat]

46.8 kmh

[hollow canyon]

it honestly explains why all the calculations are so wrong

[frail bobcat]

Its like trying to calculate a triangle with only one number given

[proud anchor]

Oh wow, so the math is basically the same. INTERESTING HOW THAT WORKS?

Get a grip, dude.

[hollow canyon]

it isn't

[proud anchor]

Ohhhhkay

[frail bobcat]

But you used carno 60 mph

[hollow canyon]

you keep rounding things up and tossing different values around while reconverting them more or less, no wonder those calculations are just dead wrong

[slim dragon]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/622454019603824680/814507466490380299/FB_IMG_1614264045994.jpg%3Fwidth%3D458%26height%3D557?width=385&height=468
Sorry I just had this hanging around

[proud anchor]

I didn't... Lol..
I suggested a difference in speed being massively over the math.

[frail bobcat]

Which is like what, 75ish kmh?

[frail bobcat]

Metric system is just better

[proud anchor]

It's called, what... Exaggeration?

[hollow canyon]

and... you were wrong, I mean not as wrong as the person suggesting that 2 cars driving towards each other from 150m away would take 90 minutes to reach one another but still

[proud anchor]

Stating the Carno is double as fast isn't far off from in-game examples that can be made.

[hollow canyon]

I mean... what can I say?

[proud anchor]

If you think the gap is a simple 5mph when it's going nearly double the speed, meh ~ good luck.

[hollow canyon]

It's not going twice faster than a Utah

[frail bobcat]

10ish kmh difference almost double the speed? Are you joking?

[proud anchor]

It's called, what... Exaggeration?

[frail bobcat]

The fucking game says it

[hollow canyon]

He isn't, that's the sad part

[slim dragon]

47x2=55
math, guys

[hollow canyon]

I mean... read up what he posted above while trying to prove those hypotheses

[frail bobcat]

Math

[hollow canyon]

look at this

[frail bobcat]

AcTuAlLy ItS 46.8 kmh

[hollow canyon]

two cars moving towards each other at a speed of 45km/h and 55km/h and being 150 metres away from one another apparently take 90 minutes before they crash into one another

[slim dragon]

sry I'm bad at math

[frail bobcat]

They are moving TOWARDS eachother

[slim dragon]

They're driving on very slippery terrain

[frail bobcat]

And kilometers

[hollow canyon]

ikr that's why it has nothing to do with what he's saying about the game but that's beside the point, those calculations...

[frail bobcat]

Why are you posting that again, we already saw it

[proud anchor]

Apparently not.

[frail bobcat]

We did and what does the fucking calculation you showed us matter?

[proud anchor]

The Utah can reach speeds up to 30mph.
The Carno can reach speeds up to 35mph.
The 5mph difference is is 2.2352 meters per second.
Using the equation: Time = distance/rate
30 ÷ 2.2352 = 13.4
At 30 meters (roughly 100ft) is the distance you break when diverging a Carno's speed to a slide.
30 meters ÷ 2.2352 meters per second = 13.4 seconds to bridge the gap.
Does this sound like an accurate representation currently?

Because you're fucking blind, that's how it matters?

[frail bobcat]

This makes sense, but the calculation from the random dude is what I meant

[hollow canyon]

"This applies to the Tenontosaurus, as well. 35mph, closing the gap way too quickly.
(Though it feels like the Tenno is more easily escaped, somehow)" goddamn that post is actually a gold mine

[proud anchor]

Oh, then it sounds like it's not my fucking problem. Lol.

[hollow canyon]

yes, yes it does

[hollow canyon]

that sounds about right, a 30m gap would be closed down in roughly that amount of time

not exactly cause the values are using are... well not exactly accurate to put it mildly but aside from that yea

[proud anchor]

That's the whole point.

[hollow canyon]

oooh right that's where he got the 35mph Tenonto

[proud anchor]

The Utah seems much slower.

[hollow canyon]

damn everything is clear now

"(Though it feels like the Tenno is more easily escaped, somehow)"

[frail bobcat]

Why does this dude not use ingame values like everyone else?

[hollow canyon]

Yea I wonder why it feels that way

[hollow canyon]

he probably has issues understanding metric I'd suspect

[proud anchor]

Imagine posing a question:
"Why are the dinos in this game so incorrectly scaled in their speeds?"

[frail bobcat]

Because balance

[hollow canyon]

that's... still wrong?

where are you getting these values from?

[proud anchor]

Oh, wrong value.

Teno:

[hollow canyon]

that's... also wrong?

[proud anchor]

I dunno, you tell me?
https://isle.fandom.com/wiki/Tenontosaurus

[hollow canyon]

Idk are you going to just keep on putting random numbers there until you hit the jackpot? I can just tell you how fast it is

[frail bobcat]

The isle wiki is inaccurate

[hollow canyon]

It's wrong

[proud anchor]

Then the community is the problem.

[hollow canyon]

outdated

[proud anchor]

#TheIsle

[frail bobcat]

Why

If you are not able to read the numbers ingame and use outdated sources

[hollow canyon]

the irony of this is not lost on me

[proud anchor]

What is the Teno's current speed at full size, then?

[hollow canyon]

40.5km/h iirc

"25.16553" in mph

that's probably why it's "more easily escaped somehow"

[proud anchor]

Oh, so 5mph slower than what it should be historically. Got it.

Well, good to know there are hacks that can ruin the balance of the game, and not just ESP. Since it was hacks that started this discussion, and infinite stamina is a thing, might I ask if there are players running around with infinite health, too? Just to be informed.

Utah:

Carno:

Question:
How in the hell does the Carno close the gap so easily, (given my numbers are basically 1mph and 0.5mph difference, in total a 0.5mph error) so much, or at least feels so much faster than the Utah? Like, marginally faster than the numbers show.

[hollow canyon]

probably, I don't recall running into one but

[proud anchor]

I'm not going to redo the math, but say 12s flat to catch a Utah from a slide-check. How does this feel more like 3-6s in most cases?

While I'm happy the numbers of the Carno and Utah are accurate to historical discoveries, and not so much with the Teno, honestly.. But the Utah would be a joke if they were, something still feels off.

[hollow canyon]

My guy, if this game was to be realistic with the speed estimates Utahraptor would be an absolute fodder

it did NOT run at a speed of 30mph

that estimate for it was created when it was thought to be another lightly built dromaeosaurid

irl Utahraptor is currently thought to have moved at a speed of roughly ~30KM/h

[proud anchor]

That's the version we have, though.

The heavier beefier boi being developed.

[hollow canyon]

No, that's not the version we have, we have a completely fictional theropod that is running at a speed of 46.8km/h, this animal has gone down from 70km/h+ down to its current speed over time

it's all down to balance and game design

a lot of animals are going to be nothing like their irl counterparts

[proud anchor]

I do recall the insane speed change due to server limitations.

[hollow canyon]

the Tenontosaurus that you brought up a few times would be complete fodder if it was restored as it was in real life

in real life this animal was likely bipedal

[proud anchor]

Though, what I'm saying in contrast to the actual speed we have in the game, is something still doesn't line up in chase theory.

Could be scale, could be something else, but the answer is something isn't matching up.

[hollow canyon]

Idk, I can't play the game right now since I have a very wonky internet access, I will test it in the upcoming week, likely over the next weekend and see whether what you're saying is true or not but based on how the speed in the game is set up - I severely doubt you are correct

the values in the game that the devs set up are probably neither in km/h nor in miles per hour

last I've seen them they were set up in metres/second

the game then further calculates them into km/h which are the values shown to us

the chance that this is somehow wrong is just... unlikely

[proud anchor]

If the math I showed, proves to be correct... The simplest of testing you could do to prove me right is make a turn on a Carno that is chasing to make them slide, and time how long it takes for them to catch up in a stright line.

[hollow canyon]

what in the world does sliding have ot do with anything?

[proud anchor]

If it's less than 12 seconds, then there's something wrong, is all I'm saying.

and the in-game numbers can't be trusted

[hollow canyon]

I'm very much sure it should be less than 12 seconds based on the speed of both animals in the game

idk where you're getting 12 seconds from

but that would suggest the Utah has managed to cover a distance of over 30 metres in the time that Carno was sliding

that sounds absurd

[proud anchor]

I'm being generous.

Now, if the gap is less than 30m, then I'll take them blame and you can re-configure the math to suit the proper distance.

[hollow canyon]

I mean yea - a 30m gap would be closed down in that time, I'm just baffled where you're getting the 30m gap from

[proud anchor]

Based on how much distance you can make on a Carno on a slide.

[hollow canyon]

cause Utah is not creating a 30m gap in the time that Carno is sliding around, there's no way it would create that much distance in that time

[proud anchor]

So, estimate. How much distance can you create?

[hollow canyon]

I honestly have no idea, I will try to test it at some point

30m is almost 4 Carno bodylengths

[proud anchor]

That doesn't sound too implausible, since the Utah doesn't need to slide to change direction.

[hollow canyon]

that's way too much, the slide doesn't last that long for you to get that far away from Carno from what I recall

[proud anchor]

Right, but the Carno also has a slight acceleration time.

Ofc that's just too much to account for, for me anyway.

Unless the slide doesn't trigger the stopped acceleration mechanic.

Anyway, this discussion is now less about balance because it's just a working theory that the speeds might be different that what they are in-game, vs the actual time it takes to close the actual gap that is made, and whether or not that is accurate.

Otherwise, it's just necroing an old post.

[hollow canyon]

I've checked how long it takes for Carno to recover from a slide and there's no way in hell Utah can traverse a distance of 30m in that time

[proud anchor]

Cool, doesn't really add to the conversation, as this was already established.

[hollow canyon]

yea... it was totally established

[proud anchor]

Now, if the gap is less than 30m, then I'll take them blame and you can re-configure the math to suit the proper distance.
Sure was.

So, get over yourself, thanks. 😄

[half girder]

ah yes ofc 🤓 👆

[alpine plover]

I'll start blocking mfs who use realism arguments from now on

[proud anchor]

TFW the argument proved to be the current values anyway.

[fresh laurel]

@solid scarab you could just turn around...

and if the small creature still hits you then I think thats fine :P

plus theres already alt attacks

which instant turn you while attacking

to sum it up, I think its balanced how smalls can go and hit you if you dont react quick enough plus you gotta remember... its a game not meant to use 100% realism

[slim dragon]

I think they're talking about legacy

Since you can't go between another dino's legs in evrima anyway

[hollow canyon]

you kind of can

if a Deino runs out of stam you can absolutely tailride them

[slim dragon]

But you can't go between its legs
Also it's a very specific case

[hollow canyon]

well... the tail is kind of one of the non-collision areas so in a way you can? Idk if you will quite reach the area between its legs but you get what I mean

it's really only a specific case because Deino is the only carnivore that large but still

I guess in the current game it is a bit of a specific case

I'm hoping the apexes can turn around relatively fast

[slim dragon]

I hope so too

[hollow canyon]

I remember Stego turning painfully slowly at first and that was just bad and so legacy-like

[solid scarab]

Pretty sure i mentioned that most bigger dinos cant turn fast enough to do that ^^;

also i understand that its a game and its not going to be 100% realistic, but the game is more realistic then most or at least its striving to be.

and i dont think that a gali should be able to take down a rex just cause it sits in the blind and attack spams till its dead. Though thats just my own opinion honestly lol
I mean bragging rights to who dose do that but also not very ok at the same time lol

[slim dragon]

You're talking about the Legacy version of the game, which isn't being updated anymore partly because of that issue (among many others)

[dusky surge]

this is def legacy

EVRIMA already has a solution to your issue with alt-bite

[slim dragon]

In the beta versions of the game, you can try out Evrima, which is the newer version and the one being actively developed, in which the problem you mentioned no longer exists since dinosaurs now move like real animals

@solid scarab

[solid scarab]

OH ok that makes sense (did i mention i havent played PC games in like over a year lol)

[solid scarab]

appreciate the heads up lol

[slim dragon]

np ^^

[solid scarab]

Hmm now that i think about it is there a way for me to get caught up on the updates that have been added since then?

[slim dragon]

Just follow what happens on the #announcements channel, #phase-two-archive and you can read the devblogs and patchnotes on Steam
The Isle News youtube channel is also a good way to keep up with information

[solid scarab]

ok then cool

[hexed sorrel]

just faught 3 utahs with my 850 kg carno and killed 2

bruh.

[mystic cedar]

As a carno I can kill a ton of utahs, I've taken a pack of 5 alone before, but everytime I kill them I bleed out

Which I mean I dont mind tho

Just killing them is satisfying enough, they like rats lmfao

[dusky surge]

@primal harbor why after cerato? Just wondering

Seems like a weird choice to add a larger herbivore after cera

[primal harbor]

because cerato is meant to be better than carno in most ways besides speed and I think if they plan it well enough cerato can balance out stego kinda doubt it but it feels like there is a huge gap in the herbi roster and diablo would fill in that gap pretty well and also add to the variety since they haven't added a ceratopsid yet

[dusky surge]

cerato is smaller than carno lmao

its also meant to be a big bad corpse stealer

not an epic hunter animal

stego and most larger herbivores will likely end up clapping its shit

[primal harbor]

that is too bad because with ceratos teeth it could shred stego like pulled pork if it was smart enough

cerato doesn't have that good of a bite force but if it can get its teeth around something it would be shredded

[dusky surge]

cerato killing stego seems kinda ridiculous to me

[primal harbor]

and since they bulked up cerato and made it a little bigger if I remember correctly, it would ahve even more of a chance than irl cerato

to be fair carno taking out stego is just as or more absurd, they just should not have released stego yet

cerato I think would be a glass cannon, it can get its shit rocked but if you get a hit in, it is devastating

for context cerato may not be too big or have the biggest bite force but its teeth are 2nd largest tooth size proportionate to its body behind torvosaurus

and ceratos teeth are thinner so it can just shred anything it can get its mouth around as long as it is flesh

[dusky surge]

i dont think cera is a glass cannon at all

it's literally described as a sturdy honey badger animal

its described as specifically hard to kill

[primal harbor]

ik but it would make more sense to do that

but since they bulked him up so much idk

[dusky surge]

it might be reduced again

remember, it was only bulked up because legacy

[primal harbor]

no, you have no idea how irl cerato looks

it is a flounder

[dusky surge]

and in legacy, utah is 1 ton

i do

i believe cera will be reduced from its ridiculous legacy weight to a more natural weight

[primal harbor]

huh

I wonder how they will go with it then

[dusky surge]

they've already described how it will likely be

[primal harbor]

I mean with how they body shape it

plus utahs big thing is to take out stuff bigger than it, diablos would pretty much be struggling against carno and cerato when it is young then when it is older utah would be the main thing killing it

[dusky surge]

cerato's big thing is stealing food

and eating rotten shit

[primal harbor]

well it must have some type of capability because if players know it is all show they will just kill it

[dusky surge]

its supposed to be capable of being defensively powerful

so it can be a decent bully

[primal harbor]

exactly so what stops it from killing juvis or things around its size

[dusky surge]

nothing really

except those juvis outrunning it

because i doubt cera is really that fast

[primal harbor]

that is what I was saying, diablos would be killed by ceratos and carnos as a juvi and as an adult it would be dying to utahs

[dusky surge]

ceras will hunt magys. I think diablo will just gore the fucker lmao

also i see cerato stomping utahs

[primal harbor]

well how viable is maggy then?

[dusky surge]

cerato is described to have "loose skin"

which is good for resisting bleed

[primal harbor]

fair it could stomp utahs

[dusky surge]

also it traditionally has an insane turn radius, making it good at defending its flanks from utahs

[primal harbor]

I understand the eating rotting stuff but carno already has the niche of killing small stuff

[dusky surge]

i dont see the overlap

[primal harbor]

now thinking about it I can see how cerato would be an issue with stego cuz even if you have defence it wont stop them from getting impaled and if it is slower it would be harder for it to move around it

[alpine plover]

Stego's jab attack is above 1k in damage

Even if Cera was more armoured or had loose skin for resistance, I'm certain that wouldn't be enough to shrug off an attack that big.

Even assuming it was

[dusky surge]

its very likely dead

[alpine plover]

It seems it's combat capabilities are likely to be more defense oriented than for hunting purposes

[dusky surge]

if its 1300kg, it'd BARELY survive a body shot

[alpine plover]

Very slim

[dusky surge]

which imho, is how it should be

[alpine plover]

True, if they made it a great hunter while having strong defense abilities. Carno's would go extinct fairly quick

[dusky surge]

exactly

also, every carnivore being "big bad scary hunter" is lame

[alpine plover]

I'm a fan of the trifecta dynamic of Cera/Carno/Allo in the future though

[dusky surge]

i mean

i dont think allo is part of the trifecta

allo has its own little "duo" with itself and alberto

cera, carno and bary seem more like a trio

[alpine plover]

Hm

[dusky surge]

allo is literally like 900kg greater than carno

[alpine plover]

Carno's current blood pool would make it pretty vulnerable to Allo if they make it's bleed severe too

Then 2-3 Defensive playing Cera's would have a better shot against it

Though with the bary in the trifecta

It doesn't seem to have a good enough edge to tussle against Cera and Carno

[dusky surge]

with cera, bary and carno, each animal suits certain environments better. Carno best on land, worst in water. Bary worst on land, best in water. Cera somewhere in between

[alpine plover]

You have to take into account abilities too

Bary's combat ability is defense orientated that would in concept work well against a Utah.

[dusky surge]

i say bary lies between carno's offense and cera's defense

[alpine plover]

Though with Cera being defense orientated as well, is designed in more harsher conditions and at punching up better.

So Bary playing defense isn't the play unless in actual diving water.

Bary seems like the odd one out, you could compensate with agility. Though it's lackluster in comparison to the other picks

[dusky surge]

Cera might have the better agility if legacy is anything to go off

i do like cera being almost the polar opposite of carno

cera's agile, carno's fast. Carno's offensive, cera's defensive. Carno likes fresh meat, cera doesn't care if its rotten as shit.

[alpine plover]

True, it's an interesting dynamic

Cera in general is a particularly interesting addition to the roster

A defensive scavenging carnivore

I don't mind if it's a hard counter to Utah either

I think every pick should have tough or hard counters

And not just in combat sense

[alpine plover]

Kentro is plan on being added @primal harbor so we have that.

[primal harbor]

that is fair

[dusky surge]

kentro is smaller than teno tho

[primal harbor]

but didnt they downsize tf out of it?

yeah that is what I thought

[dusky surge]

not by much, but its still smaller

[alpine plover]

I didn't know it was smaller than tenonto but I would still say it's an in-between because I would imagine it being stronger than teno. Especially if it gets a recoil. A ceratopsid would be really nice though

[dusky surge]

issue with adding an animal between stego and teno would be there's not really a carnivore to deal with such an animal besides deino

[alpine plover]

Yeah. Unless it was something like maia?

[dusky surge]

i guess, but even then, the fuck is taking down the maia besides utahs and deinos

carno isnt designed for it

[primal harbor]

and I heard maia is bigger in the isle than irl so idk

[fresh laurel]

Anky 🥱

[rugged vortex]

why is an teno stronger than a raptor? so OP this dino... he need 3-4 hits iam dead.. but with raptor i need so much bites..... and the planteater go hunting the meateater.. that makes NO sense.

[primal harbor]

anky is way too op for current game

[fresh laurel]

isnt teno like over twice utah weight-

[primal harbor]

because one is much bigger than the other

[rugged vortex]

was the samme ewight i aws adult he not

he wasnt bigger than me

[primal harbor]

did you pounce it?

it would have died if you kept pouncing it

[rugged vortex]

yes i jump on his bback 2 times.. i pounce it 3 times

i think all the planteater are OP... to strong

[primal harbor]

well stego makes sense but tenno is just fine

[rugged vortex]

they go for hunting the meat eater... yeahh

[primal harbor]

especially if it wasn't an adult teno you had an advantage

[rugged vortex]

yes stego make sense.. its ok

[dusky surge]

???

[rugged vortex]

what can i do for the snapping illness by the raptor?

[dusky surge]

stop cannibalising

[rugged vortex]

ah ok, but atm its just the only dead body close to me.. ma own 😄 haha

[fresh laurel]

smaller than stego, bigger than teno

[dusky surge]

no

[fresh laurel]

Yes.

[dusky surge]

its literally not

its heavier than stego

[fresh laurel]

yea

so your point?...

🥱

[slim dragon]

I think he meant heavier than stego

[fresh laurel]

pretty sure he would of edited it...

[dusky surge]

i meant stego

i just forgot about this

anky is like 9 tons

its fucking huge

@fresh laurel i edited it

[fresh laurel]

makes sense now

[dusky surge]

anky literally tussles with spinos and invalidates our entire carnivore roster right now

utah, carno, deino and ptera ain't doing JACK to anky

[slim dragon]

Also Isle anky seems to be using the largest size estimate, to date (as seen in the spino concept art) which is almost twice as big as the usual anky we know

Especially considering that according to Dondi's very cryptic hints, spino might be massively oversized too

[dusky surge]

Probably

[azure crescent]

only deino can do something to anky because it is super vulnerable underwater

[dusky surge]

ehhh

its also 9 tons lmao

[mellow zenith]

Not really, because in theory its the same with stego. But in practice deino is stego's b**** and i assume it will be the same with anky

[azure crescent]

that is true

[hexed sorrel]

I just had a conversation with a carno main and they said that they should be able to survive 7 pounces and not die.

there is no hope for dumb carno mains

[proud anchor]

No longer QA wave?

[proud anchor]

Let's be honest, this is less a Carno issue as it is an average Isle enjoyer issue. Utah opinions (Being a Utah main) are no better.

#BuffMyDinoButNotYourDino

[hexed sorrel]

??

utah is fine, carno is fine. done deal

[proud anchor]

Yeah, they seem pretty good right now, honestly.

Mechanics (or server stability anyway) could use a little spit-polish, but honestly, in terms of balance, what really needs happening is a safer Stego dismount for Utah right now, and we'd start seeing more Stego corpses.

[primal harbor]

if only ankylosaurs in this game fliped upside down and drowned if they tried swimming

because that is what happens to them which I love lmao

[proud anchor]

That suggestion there doesn't mean nerfing the Stego at all, either... It's just tooling the dismount to allow for a safer exit from a successful pounce, without the dice-roll that the server is gonna hitch and cause you to die.
Be it better control off of the dismount with camera aim or something, a more controllable dismount, or maybe a distance of dismount based on remaining stamina would be something worth kicking around.

The Stego is meant to be strong, but being unstoppable is a bit overkill.
(This can be balanced out with the strengths of other dinos)

This change could also benefit the Deino matchup as well.

[slim dragon]

They're probably just gonna walk on the bottom of the water

[primal harbor]

yeah I saw that

but float and bloat is funnier

[crude blaze]

lol that would be pretty good

[hollow canyon]

@slender kettle Tenonto should just lose the bleed on its kick completely, it was added at a time when the kick was honestly a really bad attack to encourage players to use it. Now with its higher damage output and a relatively low stamina cost it really doesn't need the bleed. Buff up the bleed on the clawswipe - give it a x1.5 multiplier or maybe even x2 multiplier(that should still make it apply less bleed than the current kick) and make that the main bleed attack of Tenonto.

Carno didn't need any nerfs, it was just fine the way it was on the last patch(aside from the bugs that got fixed), it was all the other playables that needed adjustments which they thankfully got in update 5. Carno should be the way it was prior to update 5.

Stego is alright the way it is for what it is meant to be. The only things that I think could be touched potentially is lowering the damage output of the tail, reducing the runtime/hunger and water time, but in general this animal does what it is supposed to be doing with the animals that are currently in the game.

[hasty coyote]

@rapid flicker as a fellow pachy main, I can say that pachy is not F tier. It’s only issue currently is the utah matchup and it isn’t absolutely unwinnable.

The reason they nerfed ram damage was because ram honestly did too much damage for a Dino that is supposed to break and run. Especially since ram already gives fractures and has a massive stun/knockdown range. Giving ram more damage makes the ability to EVERYTHING except deal with multiple threats.

However, I do agree it needs a bit more damage somewhere because the utah matchup is too utah-sided. However, I would rather them give it to alt attacks or headslam. That way it can’t use those attacks against larger targets and can’t deal high damage and fractures in one attack.

Also, Utah’s pounce can use a nerf, probably to recovery time and to make sure they can’t instantly turn and retry after missing.

[rapid flicker]

I feel like Pachy always gets the short end of the stick after every patch.

Atleast knockdown timers got reduced so it doesn’t get instakilled by Carno ram anymore, but it needs 18 headbutts to kill one now.

As for Utah, 1 pounce and you’re close to death already. Where as you need to hit the Utah 4-5 times now instead of 3. Also pounce can just be spammed and gives no time to punish after a miss.

On top of that, pounce takes priority over Pachy’s attacks now

[hasty coyote]

Last I tested, that doesn’t seem to be the case. I rammed a utah mid air out of pounce, but I have not tried alt attacks.

[rapid flicker]

Pounce has priority over alt attack.

Wasn’t sure about headbutts tho, so I guess you cleared that for me

But headbutts leave you open for a pounce if you miss

[hasty coyote]

As I said: pachy does need a way to deal more damage to things like utah. But it should just break and run from carnos mostly. Even now, I have killed carnos with just 2 skilled pachies.

[rapid flicker]

I killed a couple today too with a friend. Just feel it’s one of the weakest dinos atm

[hasty coyote]

Personally, I would either buff alt attack to deal like 80-100 damage.
Or give headslam (the one you use to open cocos) a use: a finisher. Deals like 150-200 damage, but only works on a knocked down target. Essentially: you alt swing utahs down, then decide to either ram or slam them for fracture or damage respectively. Or you just ram and slam to completely ruin a utah.

[hasty coyote]

It’s only weak if you fight to the death, which is something pachy is not forced to do a lot. You just need to generally break and run currently. Tho I do agree it needs some more damage against utahs.

[rapid flicker]

Ive seen this idea of the knockdown being an attack a couple times now. It could give the Pachy more options for something like a Utah.

[rapid flicker]

Well… As a fellow Pachy main you’ll understand. Once you break the ankles, you’re gonna make sure it doesn’t get out alive.

[hasty coyote]

Yeah, I do go for the kill when I can lol. But, if I can’t, then I just run off.

[hollow canyon]

@winged spade That's how pounce has been for... almost 2 years now I think? Just generally weirdly working mechanic.

[fresh laurel]

didnt they say that concept art wont be 100% size accurate and stuff?

[hollow canyon]

They did, Tapwing outright stated not to try to guess the sizes of playables from the concept art.

[fresh laurel]

@winged spade carno can bite utah mid air if utah tries to go for a head pounce

[fresh laurel]

is there even a anky estimate that big?

[hollow canyon]

The time when their size is actually set up is only when they get into QA testing.

[hollow canyon]

yes, there is, it's relatively new but such an Anky does exist

[fresh laurel]

freaking scary

if thats added then I for sure see anky being the walking tank

[hollow canyon]

I think it's even on Nova's size chart

[fresh laurel]

neat...

[hollow canyon]

Also Lt. Wolf wasn't talking about whether you can bite them mid-air or not

[fresh laurel]

ik

I was just mentioning it

[hollow canyon]

he was talking about Utah pouncing Carno's head and teleporting onto its side

it's irrelevant to the argument he was making though

[fresh laurel]

meh

he said the spot a utah should avoid pouncing

[hollow canyon]

Yes, indeed he did say that

[fresh laurel]

and its still a spot utah should avoid

[hollow canyon]

it USED to be a spot Utah had to avoid pouncing

[fresh laurel]

in like update 1

[hollow canyon]

not really, I've pounced Carno's head on to avoid their bite at times

[fresh laurel]

pretty sure we had pounce work like this for a long time

[hollow canyon]

Yea since like update 2 I think

[fresh laurel]

well, work like pouncing the head

[fresh laurel]

worked in update 2 iirc

[hollow canyon]

in update 1 you were getting knocked down by pouncing the head or the tail

those were just no-no areas

[fresh laurel]

pounce in update 1 was really buggy at the same time

[hollow canyon]

sort of but definitely not more buggy than in update 4

[fresh laurel]

you could take damage while latching on by the victim

[hollow canyon]

I haven't had that, I've had some other weird shenanigans though

it was much less buggy than between update 3.5+ until now

[fresh laurel]

didnt update 2, 3 and 3.5 have the best working pounces?

[hollow canyon]

no I don't think so

I think even update 2 was kind of buggy compared to 1

[fresh laurel]

I had a pretty fluid time pouncing in update 2

[hollow canyon]

1 had some weird stuff but I've had the bug with being suspended in the air a few times on update 2

I've had it bug out a few times on update 2

[fresh laurel]

never bugged for me in update 2

[hollow canyon]

it had a few bugs actually

one of the annoying bugs was that if you pounced someone it was at times resulting in an input lock for the pounced person

they couldn't buck or run

[fresh laurel]

never happened to me...

weird stuff

[hollow canyon]

happened once or twice to me on update 2

got much, much worse in update 3 and 3.5

[winged spade]

Regardless of how buggy the pounce may be, I think its a pretty odd precedent to set for the pounce being able to be done from the front but tp you to the side. I could understand if it resulted in a "facegrab" of sort but the tp to the side is not a good look.

[hollow canyon]

Yea no, it is a weird precedent indeed

[fresh laurel]

pounce needs a face animation or something

[hollow canyon]

it should go back to how it was in update 1

[fresh laurel]

oh lord

[hollow canyon]

if you pounce the head or the tail you just don't latch

[fresh laurel]

those were dark times

[hollow canyon]

as simple as that

there's 0 reason why you should be able to latch onto such small surfaces

[fresh laurel]

idk man... with how quick things can turn...

[hollow canyon]

yea well, time your pounces well then or else you're getting knocked down, that's how it worked in update 1

and really how it should still work now

[fresh laurel]

but since pounce is more bleed based it would make hunts take a whole lot more time and risk

[hollow canyon]

I don't see a problem with that

pounce is way too much of a freebie atm

Although as a compensation I'd maybe increase its range

[fresh laurel]

pounce has lots of counters

[hollow canyon]

it's one of the least skill-requiring abilities in the game

[fresh laurel]

eh

that would go to stego

[hollow canyon]

I wouldn't consider Stego's tailsmack to be a special ability

but if you do - fair Stego's is less skill-requiring

[fresh laurel]

and pachy ram isnt hard to land either

[hollow canyon]

Pachy's ram is around the level of the pounce

the two are both very similar in more ways than one

[fresh laurel]

carno ram and teno attacks probably need the most skill to land at times

[hollow canyon]

Carno's ram is the one that requires the most skill although idk how much of it is skill and how it is the lack of it on the side of the opponent

[fresh laurel]

doesnt pachy ram have some small endlag too?

[hollow canyon]

it does

it has it even when you land it successfully

[fresh laurel]

and it can do that pretty big things

[hollow canyon]

furthermore both had a thing where they were bugging out if you used them at point-blank back in U4

[fresh laurel]

tbf when you land it, the victim is stunned longer

[hollow canyon]

not sure if that was fixed now

yea that stun is there just so that Pachy doesn't get mauled and turned into minced meat after running headfirst into an animal 4 times its size

otherwise the endlag would make it really bad

[fresh laurel]

I mean, ofc the stun would be there

I cant see pachy without stun now

[hollow canyon]

I can absolutely see it

[fresh laurel]

legacy

[hollow canyon]

without the stun

just change stun into something else ez

[fresh laurel]

what?

[hollow canyon]

what Pachy needs is for its opponent not to clobber it while its recovering after ram

= make the ram stop the opponent from attacking

[fresh laurel]

pretty sure it already does

[hollow canyon]

it doesn't need to stun stuff, it only has to make it impossible for the opponent to dish out punishment at Pachy

yes it does that and a tonne of other things

it's a complete input lock

the hardest CC imaginable pretty much(aside from death)

[fresh laurel]

pachy when ram lands is fine imo

[hollow canyon]

it isn't

it really, really isn't

[fresh laurel]

you stun the enemy, you can chose to go crazy mode or run

simple stuff

[hollow canyon]

that theorycrafting is irrelevant to how the game actually plays out

you won't know what the issue with pachy is if you face it only as a Utah

or even Carno for that matter

[fresh laurel]

whats pachy issue then?

[hollow canyon]

try playing Tenonto and have a half-decent Pachy have a go at you and you will see

[fresh laurel]

why would pachy want to fight a teno

[hollow canyon]

why would it not fight a Teno?

[fresh laurel]

🤨

[hollow canyon]

There's absolutely nothing that stops it from fighting it

[fresh laurel]

thats some deathmatch mindset ngl

[hollow canyon]

it isn't

[fresh laurel]

why would pachy ever need to start beef with teno?...

plus pachy could just run away

[hollow canyon]

because it can yolo kill it with very little consequence

why would it run if it can clobber Tenonto to death?

and Tenonto isn't running from Pachy unless it has water nearby

[fresh laurel]

pachy dies in 2 kicks man

[hollow canyon]

irrelevant

[fresh laurel]

heck even tail slam and a kick is a gg

I dont see how teno can lose easily lol

[hollow canyon]

you're looking at how much damage animals do and how much hp they have way too much

that's not what determines the match ups in this game

[fresh laurel]

whats stopping teno from turning its back towards pachy?

[hollow canyon]

the most important thing is how reliably you can dish out your damage and CC

Pachy can do it far more reliably than Teno

[fresh laurel]

if you have a good teno vs good pachy im pretty sure teno should win

[hollow canyon]

nothing but that doesn't have a particularly large impact either way

[fresh laurel]

afk rq

[hollow canyon]

Pachy's ram stops and cancels Teno's attacks

if you're good with Pachy - you should be winning it

1v1 might be potentially winnable but 2 Pachies are a certain death to any Teno

assuming there's at least three brain cells between them both

that + fractures screw Tenonto over harder than pretty much any other animal

you can disable a lot of Tenonto's attacks via fractures and you can increase the stamina cost, both of which are gamebreaking for Teno

all of that on an animal that takes barely over half of your growthtime to get to full adult

[fresh laurel]

god damn

I said afk and you leave a text wall for me

[fresh laurel]

tbf 2 pachys wreck a lot more than teno

also ram canceling teno attacks can be a issue but if you time yourself right...

[hollow canyon]

they really don't, not to the same extent

anything that Pachy can do in any other match up - it can do better vs Teno

Tenonto is just particularly vulnerable to Pachy's skillset

a skillset that is in all the honesty really unhealthy all around

[fresh laurel]

I dont see how teno loses tbh, I need to see ingame fight between the two with a good teno

[hollow canyon]

have you ever fought a teno as a pachy?

or vice versa for that matter?

[fresh laurel]

I dont really play pachy that often

[hollow canyon]

teno?

[fresh laurel]

not often

I go deino and utah mostly

[hollow canyon]

yea well, give it a shot, just grow a Pachy, it takes about as much effort as growing a Utah, and go find some tenonto to murder yourself

enjoy turning it into a bloodpool

[fresh laurel]

Could just try it on a free grow server soon 🥱

[hollow canyon]

or do that, GL either way

get some practice with it and you can murder the vast majority of Tenontos without putting much or even any effort into it

[fresh laurel]

I mean even a good utah gives teno a run for its money

[hollow canyon]

Honestly as much as I think Utah is one of the scarrier things for a Teno, I'd rather fight 3 Utahs than 2 Pachys

or 2 Utahs over 1 Pachy

[fresh laurel]

what if...

2 great pvp utahs vs your teno?

[hollow canyon]

I'd rather fight a Carno over a Pachy

[fresh laurel]

even a carno with a brain? 🤨

[hollow canyon]

it doesn't matter what Carno

I'd always rather fight Carno than 2 Utahs or a Pachy

Pachy can screw you over in an instant, with Carno you need to either do something idiotic or get outplayed quite consistently for a long time

Pachy just rams you once - gives you a body fracture destroying your stamina costs and like halving your attacks

it can also just outright disable your tailslam

it's just... the worst match up possible for Tenonto

[fresh laurel]

utah bleed can also screw teno over just realized

doesnt it make stamina regen even slower at some point

[hollow canyon]

it's... borderline irrelevant when compared to halving the number of attacks you can use or outright disabling some of them

[fresh laurel]

can teno slam with a broken leg?

[hollow canyon]

no

[fresh laurel]

well damn

[hollow canyon]

I mean, I don't remember which fracture it was but one of them stopped you from tailslamming

either leg or body

I think leg

[fresh laurel]

has to be leg, body lets teno slam still

[hollow canyon]

yea I think it was leg but I tested that ages ago

I just remembered that based on everything I saw - Pachy is by far Tenonto's worst match up and pretty much its nemesis

Note - I tested all of it on update 4

but someone in isle discussion today was mentioning that it's all still a thing so no changes there most likely

[hasty coyote]

^ that matchup is yet another reason why I advocate for pachy not to receive a damage buff on ram, and instead give it to something else.

but honestly, there is a simple fix to that matchup: make tail slam and kick take priority over ram.

[fresh laurel]

it doesnt?

[hasty coyote]

that and probably making a body fracture not disable tail slam.

That way teno still has ways to defend itself if it gets hit, and has ways to prevent itself from getting hit

after that, id see if any other issue arises and fix from there.

[grave veldt]

Pachy currently cancels all attacks from carno and teno with its stun

Carno is even worse because you continuously hit a carno and stun lock it as it can’t bite if u hit it

Teno is probably the worse in general though against pachy since it’s slower then it

[scarlet onyx]

So you can now get fucking damaged from other attacks while grabbed from deino??? Since when was this changed. Broken as shit

[hasty coyote]

You always could I thought?

[grave veldt]

Been in for awhile I believe

[scarlet onyx]

Wasn't before U4 never tested it since never seen it mentioned

[hasty coyote]

Well I remember doing it in U4, but I never tested it in u3

If it has never been mentioned, then it’s likely been here since the beginning.

[grave veldt]

Although if u get lunged by a deino aren’t u dead either way?

The only way I could see it abused is if a target that can be lunged fights two crocs on land gets grabbed and the other croc kills it

But that’s the targets fault tho

[hasty coyote]

Not if you’re on land. Last time I did it (back in U4 oasis), I lunged a carno from the mud and carried it over to another deino

[grave veldt]

Oh yea speaking of, mud pit deino ambush when

Lily pads when

Moss actually being physically on creatures on swamp when

Tap / hold calls when

[hasty coyote]

Dude I’m so sad rn. In update 4, there was a bug that allowed you to sink in mud WAY deeper than intended. So I could be invisible as a full deino in the mud. However, that’s now been patched and I can’t find a way to do it anymore

[grave veldt]

I hope these things are revisited later on during Update 8 or 9 with the quality of life update

[scarlet onyx]

It has not lol. It's always been a balancing measure of the lunge

[grave veldt]

Yea i only did that once

I do hope these little things are added

[hasty coyote]

Well it’s been in here since U4 at the latest, and no one else has complained

[grave veldt]

The small details always add lots of immersion

There’s no reason to complain though

It’s not like it’s abusable

[fresh laurel]

hot take, utah is balanced

[eternal iris]

It's odd seeing people say buff pachy, I've seen gangs of pachys just destroy carnos with what looked like little to no counterplay

And not just in defense either, I mean pachy gangs actively hunting and killing them lol

[half girder]

yes but no

[half girder]

cuz it does need a buff lol

you’re seeing them whoop ass in groups cuz they’re more viable that way and it makes sense

obv winner most times cuz fracture isn’t really easy to be balanced along with stuns, not really pachys fault

[fresh laurel]

explain?

[half girder]

utah pounce is way too easy to use

pouncing the front of a creature is dumb

[half girder]

also carnos can like, choose to fight so..

was a bad idea to add a stealth dino this early tbh, map works against it most times