balance-feedback-discussion

[dusky surge]

then wait for a new top predator

dont try to force carno to be something it can't be

[primal heart]

It's too painful to wait
Especially since the biggest predator in their plan was ceratosaurus

[dusky surge]

we don't NEED a top predator anyways

better to have a more balanced ecosystem

where animals must be cautious of each other, rather than simply being heavily superior to their peers

[primal heart]

God, you don't think a top predator is part of good ecosystem？

[dusky surge]

no

i never said that

i think we already have a top predator, and it's carno, however, it still has to fear the other residents of the Isle

and its also not a fucking nightmare to grow

a carno taking 3-4 hours is just making it unplayable

[alpine plover]

eh I wouldn’t call carno the top predator lol

[dusky surge]

i mean, what would you call the top predator?

[alpine plover]

deino I suppose

[dusky surge]

i said that, but that was an unsatisfactory answer

[alpine plover]

but if we’re talking on land I feel weird saying carno is too predator

when two decent Utah’s can kill one

and utahs are typically rarely alone

[primal heart]

I don't think the carno should be a land top predator, but it is and will be for a long time.

[dusky surge]

okay, cool, does that mean we have to make its growth awful?

[hollow canyon]

well you say that but...

[dusky surge]

biggun

[hollow canyon]

biggun indeed

from what I remember the estimate of this guy is 4.7t

[dusky surge]

jeez

[primal heart]

I just think some temporary changes need to be made in response to this situation.It's not hard to adjust a number anyway

[dusky surge]

again, you're making carno FAR too seperate from the rest of the roster and unfairly so

[hollow canyon]

either way Allo is much bigger than Carno if you go with the largest specimens of both(well there's only one Carno we have on the record so it's abit unfair but still)

[dusky surge]

3-4 hours is not worth a 2 ton small game hunter animal.

[hollow canyon]

why do you want Carno to take longer? It's already one of the hardest animals to grow and tbh its power doesn't really justify that.

[dusky surge]

hes saying it should be buffed, but the buffs proposed don't nearly justify the downsides

[hollow canyon]

It loses against a Tenontosaurus in a 1v1 most of the time and can be threatend by 2 Utahs

[hollow canyon]

mind linking me the message in which he outlines the buffs?

I must've missed it

[dusky surge]

here

[primal heart]

That's why I say the carno should go back to the previous version strength and increase the growth time

[hollow canyon]

Honestly it could get those buffs even without increasing the growth time

[dusky surge]

and here

[hollow canyon]

they'd honestly have little effect on the balance

you'd still need to bite Utah and Pachy 3 times

you'd have 1 tailslam more hp than you do now

it would have... very little overall effect on the balance

[dusky surge]

(except make carno an extremely underpicked animal because 3-4 hours of very slow growth)

[hollow canyon]

you'd need 2 bites less to kill a Tenonto with bodyshots

[primal heart]

I would certainly prefer that, but it may be hard for some people to accept, after all, it is the complaints of some people that have made the carno so weak

[hollow canyon]

yea no, I'm saying even if you did those changes without increasing the growth time

[hollow canyon]

Carno got the changes it got because it was just all over the place

it was easy to grow and not very hard to maintain either

it was also buggy which allowed its bite to land from far away

Carno didn't have very many direct changes

[dusky surge]

with the universal carni diet nerfs, hunger nerfs and some other nerfs to carno in particular, carno quickly became far less of a free grow animal

[hollow canyon]

that would make it go from strong to weak over the last patch

it's not just that it's a less of a free grow animal, it's just kind of not that strong in general

honestly Carno wasn't that strong in the first place

it's just that its easy maintenance and growth made them pile up into those deathballs that just rolled around the island killing everything

as soon as that was fixed the animal would've been balanced without any further changes

Tenonto already won against it 1v1 most of the time on last update if Tenonto was good and the ping was reasonable

it got further buffed now - rightly so tbh

[mellow zenith]

Carno's huge bite hitbox was the problem imo

[hollow canyon]

so Carno really didn't need any further nerfs

[mellow zenith]

glad it got nerfed

[hollow canyon]

oh yes it was, that had to be fixed

but tbh I've been hearing people say that its bites don't land when they should now

I can't say that it's happened in my experienced but I played Carno very little on this update

[mellow zenith]

like the rest of the playable lmao

[hollow canyon]

Hmmm... idk about that, I haven't had any such issues with Utah and Deino

[mellow zenith]

but more seriously maybe people are too accommodate by the ancient huge bite hitbox

[hollow canyon]

Tenonto is the only one I've heard that about but tbh I think that people just overestimated how far Teno's hitbox goes, in my experience it was landing when it should've

[hollow canyon]

tbh just to clarify it's not that Carno's hitbox was huge

[primal heart]

This is exactly my thinking, the current carno is weak, it needs to be buffed, but if buffing costs nothing, it will be everywhere, so make it harder for it to reach adulthood

[hollow canyon]

it's just that it would bug out when you angled your camera in a specific way

I am the person who made those vidoes showing the issues with Carno's hitbox

the bites didn't always land from far away, that only happened when you kept the camera at a specific angle

it extended the hitbox for some reason

[mellow zenith]

so... the hitbox nerfed is legit or its just a bandaid for a bigger problem still there ?

[hollow canyon]

I have no idea what the nerf did exactly

what should've happened was fixing the extended hitbox when you angled the camera

[mellow zenith]

cano bite hitbox reduced

[hollow canyon]

I don't know whether the nerf fixed that or just reduced the hitbox outright

[hollow canyon]

that sounds bad

just considering how it's phrased

[mellow zenith]

seems to be the hitbox in general

[hollow canyon]

that doesn't sound good

most of the time it worked exactly as it should've

it was only when you placed the camera in a specific way that it started being wonky

I will try to test it again at some point to see how it works now because I've been hearing reports of it not working when it really should

[mellow zenith]

don't know about that, i saw plenty of people (plenty) that got it or killed far away from carno's head

[hollow canyon]

yes, because of the camera placement on Carno's side

as I explained, I tested it very in depth on update 4.5

[mellow zenith]

i guet it no worries

bite hitboxes need some check on carno for sure

[hollow canyon]

if you kept your camera straight parallel to the ground it basically caused the bite to land on things a yard away

[mellow zenith]

that's f up

[hollow canyon]

it was a general issue with bite hitboxes on everything according to the QA

and admittedly I did see some weird stuff happening with some other bites too

it's just that Carno relies on biting more than other creatures do

so it's far more noticeable on it

Idk I will have to do some testing for it again but I will be quite busy in the near future so I will see when i can get to it

I kind of regret not doing it recently when I was out of work due to covid but the patch came out during that time and I don't really test stuff right after an update comes out

well at least not this kind of stuff

[azure crescent]

carno's most impactful nerf was on the bloodpool, but even that is manageable somewhat in combat

a carno can still take down utahs and tenos, it just needs more skill now

[dusky surge]

(blood pool wasnt even nerfed)

[azure crescent]

oh yeah, just the multiplier

[hollow canyon]

everything always takes skill it's just that the requirement right now is for Utahs and Tenos to have less skill and Carno to have more skill.

[azure crescent]

yes

[hollow canyon]

You could technically take down a Stegosaurus with a Dryo it's just that again - it takes more skill than it did in update 3(when Dryo was actually a major threat to Stego)

[azure crescent]

wait for real???

how lmao

[hollow canyon]

yea a swarm of Dryos could peck down a Stego to death and turn it into a skeleton like a bunch of piranhas

75N peck

[azure crescent]

holy shit

[hollow canyon]

vs 4k health animal with a high headshot multiplier

Dryo swarms went brrrrr on Stegos

only 10 swings too, you could bait those out as the most agile animal in the game

[dusky surge]

U3 dryo was the most powerful herbivore

[hollow canyon]

almost nobody played Dryo like that but that doesn't change the fact that this animal was absurdly good at PvP against everything that wasn't a Carno or Deino

[dusky surge]

not even a joke

[hollow canyon]

yea it was

[dusky surge]

I once saw a dryo bait a utah to chase it into a group of it

then began the swarm

[azure crescent]

troodon gameplay

[dusky surge]

U3 dryo was literally troodon lite

everyone underestimated it

[azure crescent]

bigger herbivorous troodon

[dusky surge]

but in herds, they'd become like piranhas

terrifying

[alpine plover]

hahaha that sounds amazing

[dusky surge]

it kinda was

i want troodon to recreate that

[fresh laurel]

so many pounce nerf suggestions with little compensation to go with said nerfs...

Making pounce only work on sides? Ok thats manageable but uh should probably let Utahs feel more rewarded for landing the pounce by letting them stay on longer instead of funni buck equal 2 second pounce time.

[analog mirage]

@thin mantle this is what I was talking about yesterday when I said Utah can pounce like a magnet to things infront of the face with no consequence. If a Carno runs to bite it, Utah will just sit and pounce as soon as you get near.

[fresh laurel]

and theres still the other counters to pounce like trees and stuff...

[fresh laurel]

Dont think you can sit and pounce

🥱

[analog mirage]

You can stand still and pounce

[fresh laurel]

you want pounce to only work when running?

Rn pounce can only be aimed left or right either way

people word it like utah can pounce behind itself ngl

[analog mirage]

No I’m just saying if you stand still, a Carno turns around to bite you, you face tank the Carno by pouncing and you can’t even bite because they attach.

A Utah shouldn’t be pouncing a Carno or any creatures head and not be bit

[fresh laurel]

carno can bite utah while it tries to pounce

though utah still latches

[analog mirage]

Doesn’t seem to work half the time but I’ll have to test more

[fresh laurel]

its about timing

and pachy can cancel pounce so yay?

Not exactly a carno related thing but thought I should mention it

[analog mirage]

Idk, yesterday I was getting chased by a big raptor pack and when one came to bite me I juked a pounce so I turned around to bite but he literally just got up and pounced infront of my head and I didn’t get a bite that I should of gotten

[fresh laurel]

still about the timing

also the recovery is annoying at times ngl

anyways I feel if they nerf pounce again they gotta compensate with something

[analog mirage]

Yeah it def needs a nerf in the recovery

[fresh laurel]

could be slightly faster than update 4.5 but slower than now

[analog mirage]

Ig they could make a animation where if you pounce from the head you climb up onto the back but you can risk being bit while climbing

So it feels more natural and you aren’t teleported to the side

[fresh laurel]

I mean 2 of the same dino can handle a utah pack pretty well

really just bite the utah off of your friend

[fresh laurel]

feel like that would bug pounce again

[frail bobcat]

You should suggest that in #general-feedback.

[fresh laurel]

complicating it more seems to not be the best idea

[analog mirage]

True, but that’s just how grouping works, you’ll always be safer. They have Carno balanced more around group fights while Solo Carno is horribly brutal and nearly impossible to kill any pack of Utahs that see you

[fresh laurel]

now tbf

its the one of the weaker mid tier carnivores going against a pack of almost 1000 pound raptors

[analog mirage]

This is true

[fresh laurel]

if we kept pounce the same rn all the way to like end game evrima then I think less people would care since they would be playing more bigs or something

[frail bobcat]

But the utah-pounce-from-the-front-animation is a very good idea

[analog mirage]

Just annoying how a single Carno can’t really escape raptors due to stam, and it can’t really defend itself either

[fresh laurel]

it is until... well

[fresh laurel]

trying to go for a pounce on something rex sized would be a pain

[fresh laurel]

It depends where the raptors catch you

you could camp a mud pool, water possibly and trees

just gotta go pure defense and dont move a lot

[frail bobcat]

I mean the one where it kinda climb around the animal to its side where it starts attacking

Would just look better

[analog mirage]

I was walking in center so I tried to go Oasis but I had to cross which drained like 50% of my Stam

[frail bobcat]

But I think stuff like that will come in the QoL update

[fresh laurel]

im just worried if they add something like that then it would complicate pounce and cause it to bug easier :P

[fresh laurel]

carno stam sucks because speed simple really

[frail bobcat]

Just a little animation, nothing to its functions

Would look good and satisfy many

[fresh laurel]

would be surprised how much that would complicate it

[analog mirage]

That’s true, but Carno speed doesn’t matter if the stam doesn’t allow it to escape

[fresh laurel]

what can even run down carno rn?

[analog mirage]

Utah packs

[fresh laurel]

but thats a pack

always will be harder to get away from a pack ngl

[analog mirage]

Or Utah in general

[keen plover]

Even a single utah can if it has vision on the carno.

[analog mirage]

It’s just basically game over after a Utah pack has sight on you

[fresh laurel]

but a single utah would die if its not 1000 hours in the game

[frail bobcat]

But if its impletented well it would be hella cool, if its just the animation. I do not want an even higher risk for utah on a high stam/high reward move. The utah is jumping in the face of the thing already, that means it has to get close to the most dangerous spot of many dinos

[analog mirage]

Oh no, it’s just a animation to not make it look like it teleports to the side

But a Utah shouldn’t be able to pounce from a tail regardless

[frail bobcat]

You should change your feedback then

[fresh laurel]

think most people forget how fragile utah is

[frail bobcat]

Because it states: but you can risk being bit while climbing

[fresh laurel]

you can still get bit while trying to pounce mid air

[analog mirage]

I mean it’s stupid for a Utah to pounce from somethings head and get away free

[fresh laurel]

you could end up getting hit 2 times with something like that

[analog mirage]

If you are going into somethings head it’s your own fault of you get bit

[frail bobcat]

The bite of the creature if it reacts well

[analog mirage]

Yes, if it doesn’t react in time, oh well, if it does you should of just been smarter and not went into somethings head

[fresh laurel]

with how easy it is to turn, it would kinda be a hit to utah's gut

[analog mirage]

Cause I don’t want it to not be able to pounce at all on the head, doesn’t make sense. But it should have that chance to be punished still

[frail bobcat]

If you run into something headon it can bite you before the pounce

[fresh laurel]

could make sense if you think about it

just hang on to the head

[analog mirage]

That depends on creature height and size

[frail bobcat]

But that animation is needed, regardless if it does something mechanicwise or not

[fresh laurel]

I mean do you want utah to be stuck pouncing a rex thigh?

🤨

would make it harder to shake it off ngl...

[fresh laurel]

if thats added then pounce should get more compensation or something :p

[analog mirage]

Just have it climb onto the side

[fresh laurel]

problem with making it so its hard or impossible to pounce any spot but the sides is how quick said work becomes a waste

[fresh laurel]

would be a death wish in gameplay

[livid hatch]

@cloud heron if crocs don't hunt crocs what will? And if nothing hunts deinos there will be an overpopulation of them seeing as they're a popular dino,which causes starvation which makes them resort to eating other corcs. Can't avoid deino cannibalism at the current state of the game,might as well give them a diet for it.

[tawny solar]

Pouncing is hard to balance. If you make it too hard to pounce, utah will be useless. If you make it too easy it will be OP.

[azure crescent]

@cloud heron that's the point

[hollow canyon]

Carno is exactly the animal that is supposed to be hunting raptors though, that's its whole shtick

it's a small game hunter which is supposed to go after animals like Utahs and Pachys those are pretty much its primary prey items

[fresh laurel]

dont think it would be doing great against a pack of them... carno seems to be great at hunting solo raptors

Carno gets messed up by most small game in a pack you gotta admit

[hollow canyon]

that's such a bizarre way of thinking "seems to be great at hunting pack animals when they're solo"

[hollow canyon]

right now it definitely does

[fresh laurel]

its a small game hunter but I dont think the intent was for it to be soloing raptor packs like ggez

[hollow canyon]

Not ggez but it should be having an advantave over 2-3 raptors

[alpine plover]

an adult carno can't even catch a solo utah anyways

[fresh laurel]

I think carno is suppose to be great at hunting smalls when they are in a small pack or alone but not a giant pack

[alpine plover]

utahs fight when they want to

[fresh laurel]

it can but ambushing is better

[hollow canyon]

and yea if Utah isn't bad it just won't get caught by Carno

it's been a thing for a long time anyways - Utahs only died to Carnos if they decided to fight it

[alpine plover]

yeah assuming they're not just suicidal

a utah can leave whenever lol

[hollow canyon]

honestly perhaps this is a good way of taking the balance between these two in?

Make Utah far more capable of killing Carno

and just buff up Carno's agility to where it can stay on a Utah much easier

both automatically become far more threatening to one another

[alpine plover]

maybe

but right now utahs are already very very capable of killing carno

[fresh laurel]

utah vs carno is fine already

carno could use a bleed buff to be how it was before but...

[hollow canyon]

oh yes they are

[fresh laurel]

I think a good carno can clap raptors into their place

[hollow canyon]

Idk, in all my time playing Utah I don't think I was scared of Carnos on this patch

[alpine plover]

^

[hollow canyon]

just... you know - learn to turn?

[dusky surge]

i prefer running from carno than always having to kill it. All that change would do is mean the juvis/subs of each respective animal would be fucked by any adult that saw it

[hollow canyon]

Don't run in a straight like like a halfwit

[azure crescent]

carnos still are a serious threat to utahs if they know how to attack them properly

[hollow canyon]

not true at all, juvies are just fine with their ridiculous stamina pools

[azure crescent]

even 4 utahs can struggle if the carno is good enough

[alpine plover]

in carno packs sure

but a solo carno can not handle 3 utahs

[hollow canyon]

struggle to kill it, if they're struggling to survive against it - l2p

[alpine plover]

if they're decent

[dusky surge]

ridiculous stamina can only get you so far when an agile carno is on your ass

[azure crescent]

it can if it's good

[azure crescent]

laughing in juvie carno

[alpine plover]

it its good and the utahs are utterly brainless

they only need a couple good pounces

[dusky surge]

juvi carno is just dumb

[hollow canyon]

not really, juvie Carno literally doesn't care about adults

[alpine plover]

and you're probably dead

[azure crescent]

and the carno just needs 3 bites

[dusky surge]

i genuinely hate how literally broken they made it

[alpine plover]

and how does he get those bites? running around chasing them while bleeding out lol

[hollow canyon]

tbh neither does Utah, I think I ran at 3-4 different adult Carnos as a fresh spawn Utah pouncing them and I haven't died a single time

[dusky surge]

i honestly dislike the juvi stambuff

[fresh laurel]

probably because if you have a pack then you can fight back

[hollow canyon]

they are literally just not a threat

[dusky surge]

i'd rather the game give juvis more areas to play around and survive in than "heres a ton of stam so you can run through big open plains some more"

[hollow canyon]

no? I was playing solo mainly, Carno is just not a threat to utah unless that Utah decides to fight it

as long as I wanted to just get away from one I did it with ease

[fresh laurel]

I dunno what you expect tbh

Carno turns bad so Utah can out turn it :P

[hollow canyon]

idk for Carno to be a serious threat

[fresh laurel]

how do you go about that before it becomes silly

[hollow canyon]

yes, Carno turns bad so Utah can out turn it and ignore it for the most part

buff Carno's turn rate and see where that takes us

[fresh laurel]

Only way Carno will be a threat is if its turning is buffed but then teno will have more issues :P

[dusky surge]

i'd rather not see carno's turn buffed

[hollow canyon]

the animal is still hard to both grow and maintain after the latest changes

and a pack of Utahs is still a threat to it

[fresh laurel]

god no

[hollow canyon]

keep its bleed res the way it is now

[fresh laurel]

theres not much I can think of that will make carno a good threat for utah

should just wait until we get something that is one

[hollow canyon]

well instead I guess we can just nerf Utah, idk nerf its turn rate or revert the missed pounce recovery

[alpine plover]

i think carno bloodpool should be buffed

[fresh laurel]

nerfing utah turn rate? bruh

[alpine plover]

in the meantime at least

[hollow canyon]

literally... just lol

[dusky surge]

why buff the blood pool when we can just undo the changes done to the bleed modifiers lmao

[hollow canyon]

"well Carno isn't a threat to Utahs, lets wait for some animal that will be a threat to them"

[alpine plover]

oh yeah lmao that works too

[dusky surge]

literally not gonna happen if carno isn't that animal

[hollow canyon]

ez - buff its turn rate to what it used to be

[fresh laurel]

I dunno how to go about making carno a threat to where utah doesnt just out turn it

[dusky surge]

what other animal is as well designed for catching these fucks?

[hollow canyon]

keep its stamina and bleed resistance low

ez fixes right there

[fresh laurel]

Utah cannible 🥱

[dusky surge]

you are basically just agreeing with aken at this point

[dusky surge]

whats with the yawn emote lmao, i've yet to see what you mean by this

[hollow canyon]

yes, rightly so, because I'm just right there lol

[fresh laurel]

I mean I dont want carno turn buff thats really it

[raw reef]

its a signal of power

[dusky surge]

and yet you keep suggesting it

[fresh laurel]

what

[hollow canyon]

Carno is meant to go after small game, if it turns so badly it can't catch small game it's bad at what it's supposed to be doing

[fresh laurel]

I just said the only way carno will be a threat is if its turn was buffed...

not that it should get it

[hollow canyon]

That's not true, you can just nerf Utah

[raw reef]

probably better at hunting tenos than small game at this point

[fresh laurel]

nerfing utah turn radius is not the way

[hollow canyon]

increase the recovery after missing the pounce, nerf Utah's turn rate, stuff like that

[fresh laurel]

sadly thats true lmao

[dusky surge]

nerfing utah turn would just feel BAD for utahs

[hollow canyon]

decrease the stamina of Utah, there are many, many ways

[dusky surge]

and stam nerfs would also suck for utah

[fresh laurel]

small game doesnt even feed carno that much anymore :P

[raw reef]

OH GOD PLEASE İNCREASE THE RECOVERY

bros can just spam pounce 20 times and miss 19 times without any punishment lmao

[dusky surge]

yea because the food system is silly and absolutely should be revamped with gore if food is going to eventually spoil and rot

[fresh laurel]

you run out of stam before then-

[hollow canyon]

well yes, guess what nerfing Carno's turn rate felt bad for Carno's too, since when does balance care about what feels goof for an animal? Deino definitely felt bad about getting a stam cost on its alt bite too lol

[raw reef]

yes i was using it as an example -_-

[fresh laurel]

they could fix it now if they didnt worry about megapacks that much tbh

[fresh laurel]

meh example ngl

[dusky surge]

utah's whole identity is "funny agile predator" basically. It'd be a pretty hefty blow to the animal

[raw reef]

damn

[hollow canyon]

How is it "funny agile predator"? It's a pack hunter bleeder that pounces stuff and attrition hunts it as far as I can tell

[fresh laurel]

buff the hp at that point 🥱

[dusky surge]

gore can still fix megapacks. Make organs a very small part of the body with all the main nutrients. Only a few animals will be able to get these precious organs, the others get jackall

[dusky surge]

tf does the yawn emote mean in this context lmao

[fresh laurel]

think mr herrera think

[dusky surge]

i am thinking and i have no clue

im not up to date with emote culture

[fresh laurel]

keep thinking 🥱

[raw reef]

yeah lol i dont think it needs to turn 180 in 1 second lmao

since its main atack is pounce and pounce doesnt need that much agility

[fresh laurel]

low hp kinda means it should be able to dodge

[raw reef]

probably meant still more agile than carno

[hollow canyon]

its hp is pretty sensible for an animal of that size and with that kind of growth time, Idk if I'd say Utah has a low hp

[raw reef]

also pachy is low hp and cant dodge for shit lmao

[fresh laurel]

the small organs wouldnt fill your belly that much but instead the nutrient bar?

[dusky surge]

yes

[hollow canyon]

^

[dusky surge]

it can stun and fracture tho

[fresh laurel]

utah agility is fine for its size imo

[fresh laurel]

more hp... and what wavepool said ig

[dusky surge]

more HP is barely an argument

it has 50HP more

[fresh laurel]

50 hp can save your life

[hollow canyon]

its got 50 more hp, that doesn't matter in any match up aside from Tenonto I believe

[hollow canyon]

against 1 animal, yes

[raw reef]

lmao 50 hp less than a utah bite

[fresh laurel]

plus theres taking less head damage ig

[raw reef]

bro head damage is litteraly useless

[hollow canyon]

Carno threeshots both, Stego oneshots both, Deino oneshots both

[raw reef]

who the fuck would go for a pachies head??

[hollow canyon]

Tenonto kills both with 2 kicks

the only difference is that Tenonto needs one more tailslam

[dusky surge]

head damage is pretty valid all things considered, since a headshot on utah with a charge = death instant

[fresh laurel]

was just mentioning it chill lmao

[dusky surge]

if i were to buff carno, i'd maybe buff the acceleration

[fresh laurel]

again? 🤨

[hollow canyon]

it wouldn't change much

it was already buffed, it just doesn't change that much tbh

[dusky surge]

wdym "again". When was it last buffed?

[hollow canyon]

u 4.5 or 4

[fresh laurel]

Let Carno drift give it a speed boost if it drifts long enough

[raw reef]

make its charge atacks turn better

[fresh laurel]

pretty sure the last update before update 5

[dusky surge]

didn't that already happen

[hollow canyon]

also irrelevant since it just isn't landing the charge on anything smaller

[raw reef]

idk but it needs to be better if its gona ambush shit lmao

[hollow canyon]

unless Carno gets to turn better while charging than it does while running

would honestly buff it against Teno more than against Utah

[raw reef]

to be fair carno needs that too

[fresh laurel]

a instant way of buffing carno to hunt smalls better would be to give its charge fractures but too bad thats too op

[raw reef]

can litteraly 1 v 2 carnos

[hollow canyon]

I've seen them 1v3 Carnos too

[dusky surge]

if they added the scaling fractures then maybe it'd be fine

[raw reef]

lmao just dodge the charge

and nothing they can do

[fresh laurel]

carno fails at its job so hard at hunting smalls and the devs arent helping the case by making food give less :P

[dusky surge]

honestly buff the charge damage since the knockdown is far worse

[fresh laurel]

the heck is that?

[dusky surge]

i forgot the exact term

FRACTURE SEVERITIES

[fresh laurel]

would really suck for teno you gotta admit

[raw reef]

yeah once you knock something like utah down,you run so far away that they sometimes get up before you arrive to bite

[dusky surge]

teno can also kick its shit literally and figuratively

[hollow canyon]

they are doing just the right thing - Carno shouldn't be having an abundance of food

[fresh laurel]

Yes, I know Teno can kick a Carno's poop but what does that have to do with the charge?

[raw reef]

as someone who mains teno it wouldnt

[hollow canyon]

Carno gets really oppressive in high numbers

if Carnos group up to more than 3 they should just starve

[dusky surge]

more damage on charge only matters against a teno that gets hit by it and fails to land any substantial hits of their own

In other words, a bad teno

[hollow canyon]

I'm against that tbh, I remember old high damage charge that oneshot Utahs, I don't think the charge should oneshot Utahs

[dusky surge]

im honestly not against it one-tapping utahs

[fresh laurel]

the change makes carno not really do its job at hunting smalls since they dont really fill the belly plus hunger decay is an issue ig

[dusky surge]

again, you can basically easily step out of the way the moment you see it coming

[hollow canyon]

its job of hunting smalls isn't done well simply because Carno is and tbh has been pretty bad at it for a long time

[raw reef]

well,it would play in the ''ambusher''role nice,since if the teno isnt avare of its surrounding it deserves to get fucked by a massive damage charge

[dusky surge]

(also, this was before charge had locational damage)

[hollow canyon]

I guess it hunts Pachys well

but Utahs?

[raw reef]

oh god pachy vs carno 💀

[fresh laurel]

Dont think it should one shot utahs, just let the knockdown be the death wish or saving grace

[dusky surge]

remember, back when it one-shot utahs, it could tail-tap the little bastards and the utahs would STILL die

[hollow canyon]

If you die to a Carno as a Utah that should honestly earn you a nomination to a Darwin award

[fresh laurel]

update 2-

[hollow canyon]

fair

[hollow canyon]

tbh game was much better at the time all around for most animals aside from Stego

I guess Tenonto also was a bit lack luster but I haven't felt that way while playing it at the time

Utah was a big threat to Carno

Carno was a big threat to a Utah

[fresh laurel]

Those were times when 4 pouncers killed stego ez

[hollow canyon]

all depending on the skill

[hollow canyon]

that's not what Wave is talking about

[fresh laurel]

as much as I miss update 2 balance... I dont think it was all that great tbh

[hollow canyon]

Wave is talking about 3.75 when Carno got its bite nerfed but its charge damage buffed up

[hollow canyon]

well no, 4 Utahs could drop a Stego down in ~40 seconds

that was... less than ideal

[fresh laurel]

stego was the only one lacking

[dusky surge]

stego was dogshit on launch

to a pathetic degree

at least now you actually get a reward for your several hour investment into the slowest walking dinner tray in the game

[raw reef]

untill you get pounced 4 times

[dusky surge]

does pouncing a stego 4 times rn REALLY do that much?

[raw reef]

yeah i think its like 4-5 maybe 6 pounces to take down a stego

[dusky surge]

what the fuck is a stego doing to die THAT FAST to utahs

[raw reef]

lost my stego because this + utah pounces drained my stam for some reason 💀

tho i think that was a bug

[dusky surge]

were you sprinting lmao

[raw reef]

nah

[fresh laurel]

man has the biggest and most juicy ribs in the game

bleed will def be effective

[raw reef]

i had to sprint to the water at 10% bleed left to hopefully sit lmao

[raw reef]

hey man

why go off realism

[fresh laurel]

realism? YOU WANNA TALK REALISM

bet

wouldnt utah pin down pachy 🥱

[urban briar]

Yes

[fresh laurel]

wouldnt 4 utahs on stego slow down stego

wouldnt carno bite be stronger?

[dusky surge]

there's your problem

don't sprint while heavily bleeding

fucks you up bigtime

[raw reef]

if i standed with 10% of my blood left i would die anyways bruh

litteraly 2 utah bites at that point

[dusky surge]

how the fuck did you get to 10% blood in the first place

[alpine plover]

how tf you let your blood get that low

[raw reef]

utah pounces

[dusky surge]

did you buck?

[fresh laurel]

you did buck and camp trees right?

[raw reef]

yeah

[dusky surge]

what the fuck did you do to get that drained

[alpine plover]

were you killing any of them?

[raw reef]

lots of utahs + impossible to hit if they dont run into your thagomizers

[fresh laurel]

did you hit them on dismount?

[raw reef]

ofc

[fresh laurel]

thats like the biggest stego strat

[raw reef]

yeah

[fresh laurel]

make them fall into water?

made them fight you on a hill?

[raw reef]

wasnt near a hill,died as i arrived at water so

rip

[fresh laurel]

then the utahs were good ig? or you could of always had skill issue no offense

[raw reef]

to be fair i do tend to have massive skill issue,but i dont think this case applies because i litteraly cant hit them unless they are dismounting lmao

bros can turn in place and like 2 times faster than me how am i supposed to hit that with a slow atack lmao

[azure crescent]

if you let yourself get to 10% bleed you deserve death

[alpine plover]

you put them in a spot where there dismount leads to deth

[fresh laurel]

that sounds like skill issue

utah is agile... what did you expect?

you gotta time the swing im just saying

[azure crescent]

there's an angle with a quick jab that's super fast

[raw reef]

have you ever played stego

[hollow canyon]

implying it's you who gets you to that bleed and not pounce going brrr

[fresh laurel]

not my cup of tea

[azure crescent]

Yes

[raw reef]

💀

[fresh laurel]

What, You want me to main it?

[raw reef]

no like i wanted to ask how do i time it when they can see my tail move slightly and turn around 180 degrees but ig i cant-

[fresh laurel]

stego has a fast swing doe...

[dusky surge]

side-jabs are faster than forward jabs and back jabs btw

[azure crescent]

turn towards them at the quick jab angle

yeah they have basically no buildup

[fresh laurel]

stego really has to just get utah to dismount itself in a way that kills it :P

[hollow canyon]

1.1sec cd on the side jab, front jab is the slowest attack in the game with an attack rate of ~1.6 sec iirc

it's slower than even the base Deino bite which has a cooldown of 1.5 sec

[azure crescent]

back jab has the same rate no?

[hollow canyon]

I think so but don't remember

I tested it quite some time ago

[azure crescent]

from what i remember it does

for some reason

[raw reef]

btw i made a suggestion about slowing down tenos water drain,why was it so hated lmao

[dusky surge]

because teno is meant to stay near water?

two of three diets are near water

[raw reef]

yeah but,the reason it stays near water should be its diets,its better than having to worry about water mid fight

[dusky surge]

its basically almost a semi-aquatic with that insane swimspeed and diet positions

[dusky surge]

the reason it stays near water is because it's great near water

insane swimspeed and swim stam

[raw reef]

i mean fair ig just kinda annoying while fighting lmao

[alpine plover]

No, because I rammed a utah 3 times and it was still alive while I was bleeding out from a 2 second pounce

In case you werent aware, pachy got damage reduced by half (which, while a nerf was needed I feel like splitting it in half was too much)

Utah doesnt die from a mistake anymore but pachy most certainly does, I dont think that's fair for it

[raw reef]

i feel like if you dont want pachy to be strong and hunting bigger dinos just make it do less damage/maybe more fractures to things bigger than it?

idk why they just halfed it in half they really didnt count in pachy v utah lmao

[thin mantle]

Mhm, especially the magnetism, the hitbox was drastically increased in size as well so your right arm grazing the animal means you teleport to their side.
But anyway I wanted to put a not in on the “should Utah have a pounce for the front of an animal that allows it to climb to the side of the creature after a few seconds”
My answer would be no, for almost all cases.
The process of climbing to a specific location on a moving animal is next to impossible for any creature, but Utah is one of the least likely to have competence in this area due to its size. We can’t forget that Utah is a half ton animal, and if it hadn’t pounced the correct location initially it’s not going to be able to unhook each arm and leg one at a time as it meticulously shimmies to a better spot without falling off just from the basic movements of an animal large enough to be climbed onto.
Plus the ergonomics would only function on like…..1 animal?
Maybe rex….that’s it, and it’s not getting off its face/mouth once it’s attached there. I just think the better solution would be to make the very front of a creature unpouncable unless context allows. Same with the rear, if a creature has enough ergonomic surface area on its rear for a Utah to attach to then they should be able to pounce there.
But that’s it.
I’m less so concerned with the Carno v Utah matchup and moreso focused on how incredibly easy pounce is to use mechanically. As I said in my post, it’s an ability that affords Utah unparalleled influence on the game, it should have more requirements and borderline necessitate group tactics to pull off consistently.

[analog mirage]

Fair point

Just not much of a challenge to playing Utah atm

[thin mantle]

Not at all

[analog mirage]

It’s much more difficult to fight Utah packs as Teno and Carno

Had a bit of luck with Pachy but that’s about it

[thin mantle]

By far, especially as a Carno. 1 half pounce will put you stationary

[analog mirage]

Yup

[thin mantle]

I actually made that post after “soloing” a Carno as a Utah having only used 70% of my stam for pouncing and the rest for evading

[analog mirage]

Solo Carno play is very brutal

[thin mantle]

Yeah if there are 3 or more Utahs just….don’t even try, actually just run

[analog mirage]

Not even running can save you, they’ll endurance hunt you down and kill ya

[thin mantle]

Pray that you’re next to a forest and a mud pit

[analog mirage]

I tried so hard to get to oasis but I used like 50% of my stam swimming across

[thin mantle]

Oh yeah at that point you’re just meat

Unfortunately

[analog mirage]

If they increase the pounce recovery a little and not have as much magnetism the matchup should be fine

[thin mantle]

Ehh, I think the recovery itself is fine, I don’t think the amount of conditions necessitating a recovery is high enough tho

The magnetism just needs to go full stop

The recovery is pretty fast tho

[analog mirage]

No, recovery is too forgiving, if you miss a pounce you have no punish, but if a Carno misses a ram, or a pachy missing a headbutt they get punished

[thin mantle]

Or even a teno slamming it’s tail, ironically has a higher animation rest timer than Utahs recovery

[analog mirage]

You miss a pounce you get up in like half a second and gives a Carno no time to turn around to bite it

[thin mantle]

Yeah it needs to be a bit longer I admit it

[analog mirage]

I don’t think it should be as long as it originally was but def needs to not be this short

[thin mantle]

Yeah before it was unreasonably silly to watch your Utah do aerobic stretches after missing a pounce for a few seconds

I’d halve that and make it 1-1.2 or 1.5

[analog mirage]

What was it before?

[thin mantle]

Like…2.5 I think?

[analog mirage]

I think 1.5 is a good number

[thin mantle]

Yeah, 1.5 is fine

I still think the main reason why Utah is so easy is because pouncing a target requires no coordination or group tactics

Like….you should be able to keep your face or tail trained on a Utah to prevent them from pouncing you

[analog mirage]

I like how they can literally pounce and stay on your tail

[thin mantle]

XD

[analog mirage]

Then bite the air

[thin mantle]

Their combos are hilarious rn

Hey salty I gtg to work, nice convo tho glad I could catch ya

[analog mirage]

Np

[hexed sorrel]

@winter iris yeah carno hunger drain is too fast I agree, but blood pool is fine

[wispy kite]

@winter iris
#balance-feedback message
The bigger the dinosaur, the harder the challenge. Carno is still a big danger for lone raptor players or small packs. But only if played right by ambushing and using charge.
You can no longer brawl like an MMA fighter and spambite, because that will result in a raptor scratching your flank.
And yes, pounce finally works properly, but it is not the magnet you tell it to be. Just because Raptors are finally able to pounce you doesn’t mean they are guided by a digital magnet. Raptors simply no longer jump through you, or pounce air.

[analog mirage]

A Utah can literally stand still and if you go to bite it you don’t get the advantage, even though they are literally infront of your face they still win and get a pounce off

[azure hinge]

Honestly I think it would be nice to see some improvement with Utah pounce not going off if they pounce during a bite, but this just leads to people spam biting during chases. Maybe restrict it to maybe 40 degrees off the center of the head?

But then you are going to have so much complaining because if desync saying none of this works properly because the currently models positions already are very far off from what most people see

This adds to people's frustration with this pounce dilemma already. You have no idea what the other person is seeing with such a clunky animation and massive desync this game has even with 2 people that have low ping

Just seems like a lose lose argument, no matter what it will cause frustration, the best that can probably be done is tweak animations so it isn't teleporting people

And then also maybe adjust damages

[golden coral]

Or just keep the current pounce and just nerf the output, so instead of messing with the ease of landing or aiming, we just add the requirement to land some more pounces to get the same result. Though changing slots and making aim more required would be nicer, as would a better interaction with buck, so it can be the main mechanic for countering pounce properly.

[azure hinge]

Yeah I mean nerf it by like 5% but I don't think you would like that answer

But I think they should have a lot of balance patches that just change small numbers like that almost every week until it's close to what they want

[frail bobcat]

Utahs pounce needs to have spots where it cant connect but a nerf to the bleed would be a bad idea

[golden coral]

Hm? If you mean I'd rather work on the mechanic and interactions, then yes. Just fixing stats doesn't really add much to how you play. And yes, we desperately need more quicker balance changes, where only one or two things are done and then tested, rather than everything at the same time. I know people say carno bleed change is fine, and maybe it is, but at the same time, we could test both with and without it, and see. Maybe carnos are still pretty easy to fight with old bleed values for all we know now that pounce works properly almost all the time.

[azure hinge]

I mean idk pounce on the head of a stego would probably be fine

But a pounce on a carno head would be bad

So yeah but probably just specialized spots

[golden coral]

Well that would be nice, it doesn't make much sense to pounce head or tail, not much to hold on to there. I would like it if they only had working pounces on the sides where the slots are. But then we might mess up pounce again, which is a fair concern.

[azure hinge]

Tail pounces definitely makes sense

Just maybe not the last 20% of a tail

[frail bobcat]

But the head? Makes no sense

[golden coral]

Also one suggestion for bucking is to make it so you can't pounce someone who is bucking, getting a knockdown anim instead. That way you have to get on at the same time, or wait and try again, rather than get one utah on, and then have the rest "chain" pounce, especially with the cooldown. Which honestly needs to go anyway.

[golden coral]

Yeah, I think this is what most of us means. No head/neck, and no tail/tip of tail. Base of tail would still be fine.

[azure hinge]

Head definitely makes sense on a lot of herbivores I'd say

Things without a strong bite or don't really bite to defend itself

[golden coral]

Possible, but I'd still argue it would add more requirements and timing to have to focus on the proper slots, and that's not a bad thing I don't think. Most things could probably use some work in the combat department, except teno, because teno is just that good!

[azure hinge]

Another thing with saying no head plain out, is the neck is one of the most vital spot of almost any animal and is usually a prime target for a lot of animals

[obtuse ocean]

lol how does that makes sense? you know how good turn radius bigger dinos would need to defend that? Against a small dino with insane agility

[azure hinge]

Because it makes sense to ignore like the last 20 to maybe 33% of a tail and give that no hit box

But like 60% of a tail is a prime target and I don't see why something couldn't latch onto something if it grabs the upper end of a tail

[obtuse ocean]

Well if so, you would need to get much closer to pounce. Cus thats op, and the pounce is insane atm for a utah sized dino

[azure hinge]

I mean they can add a different animation where it latches onto the pack of the tail

It just looks dumb because they teleport to the side

[obtuse ocean]

I mean logical i dont see its bad either, but balance wise

[azure hinge]

Balance wise idk tbh like I said it's hard to say when you get into the nitty gritty

And they don't do balance patches frequently enough to test stuff

So I'd say it might be doing too much damage

But I think it's better to have Utah's as they are in this update versus the last one

[obtuse ocean]

That depends, cus we are walking into tail raiding territorium now. Cus i dont see bigger dinos having anything near the same agility as utah.

[harsh lark]

Utah pounce is fine, they just need to make it so taking damage while in the air insta stuns you so Utahs can't pounce through attacks and tank carno bites for a free pounce.

[steady current]

@wispy kite have you played carno in U5? Just wondering

[wispy kite]

Yes I have, and I never had a food problem and I knew when I was capable to fight Raptors and when I had too run.
I actually had a skill issue fighting a tenonto.

[steady current]

I suggested buffing stam it has nothing to do with food

[wispy kite]

Stam is totally fine on Carno, It can literally outran everything. I see no need for changes there.

[steady current]

Well yeah I fought some tenotos today, used like 40% of stam for attacking then tried to run. Tenotos caught me

Simply because i was out of stam

You cant even really use stam for traveling

And unless they want to change carno’s playstyle

Thats not how it should be

[azure crescent]

don't bother fighting more than 1 teno as carno

if you wasted stam while attacking more than 1 teno and die because of no stam, that's on you

[steady current]

Well thats stam is just way too low imo

You can’t even use it for traveling

And best speed gives you nothing if you cant use it because youre tired

Unless devs want to change carno playstyle it should have more stam

[mellow zenith]

People need to stop using sprint to travel 90% of their time. Stam is precious, don't waste it because you think you're a car

[steady current]

I don’t I’m a car but you can’t even use it to run away

[mellow zenith]

If you commit to a fight a burn too much stam, ofc you will struggle to run away

You just need to realise sooner, run or fight ?

[steady current]

Well I need to use stam in fight. I saved as much as i could

And even I can run for longer irl than carno in isle

[fringe surge]

@primal harbor

I agree with you, the only thing we lose is night screenshots, and like those don't effect the game as much as gamma abusers.

But I think its smarter to wait and see if gamma abusers can actaully gamma the new night since filipe said they cant

I feel like they should make it so reshade users get auto banned.

[mellow zenith]

Ok

[azure hinge]

You can run at your max speed as long as a carno, I don't believe it

[obtuse ocean]

I dont get why people even play carno, when u can utah. Its so much better and easier

[steady current]

Carno doesnt runs with max speed because its faster while charging, normal running yes i can run for more than 2-3 minutes lmao

[azure hinge]

I mean that's why everyone played carno last update

[azure hinge]

O what's the speed of the charge

[hexed sorrel]

ofc you can LMAO humans have WAYYYYYY more stamina than you thing dude. and the carno is 1800 kilogram BEAST. and yes, it is still considered sprinting, even if its no max, its not far from it. unless it doesnt run at full speed when ramming which would be stupid. I DOUBT you can run at almost your max speed for more than 1 minute.

[hasty coyote]

The main issue with increasing carno stam is the pachy matchup. Carno stam is already enough to kill a pachy before it can escape, even with rib fracture. So pachies generally need to burn the carno out of stam and/or get a second fracture before they can escape. If you buff carno stam, then you need to buff pachy stam or fractures. Which can cause even more issues.

[grave veldt]

I think pachy vs carno is fine right now it still fractures it quite well but it can’t solo one unless the carno is down bad

Pachy vs Utah seems too heavy in the favour of Utah since Utah can take 5 headbutts fully charged to the body

Only way to reliably kill Utah is by hitting its legs then u can kill it

[fringe surge]

Carno stam seems fine to me?

[mystic cedar]

It's so fast because your supposed to use its speed in short quick bursts, not 85% of your playtime while travelling the map

[hasty coyote]

Yeah, pachy isn’t in the best spot atm. But v carno isn’t terrible, it’s just on a fine line.

Vs utah though, pachy needs some help.

[grave veldt]

^ this

I wouldn’t mind something like pachy doing more dmg to something smaller versus doing less dmg when it’s larger?

[hasty coyote]

I’m prob going to make a post soon with some solutions I have seen and created.

[grave veldt]

Maybe if they do something with the downwards head slam

It has no use at all so it would be cool to actually have it do something

[hasty coyote]

Personally: pachy should be able to kill things it’s size and smaller, but struggle to kill much larger things. Best way I can see that is by increasing damage on something other than ram.

[grave veldt]

Agreed

[hasty coyote]

Yeah that “coconut cracker” turned “skull cracker” idea is cool. But I’ll credit where I saw it first.

[fringe surge]

Downwards slam doing a ton of damage would be nice

[grave veldt]

I believe wavepool suggested that downwards idea which is pretty neat imo

[hasty coyote]

Yeah I saw it from wavepool first too

[eager ledge]

I don’t think you relise that gamma is literally part and biult into almost every computer it’s not abusing it’s useing your computer to the fullest potential

[azure hinge]

😂

What I mean it's abusing the games intention

But also I have no opinion on the subject because I don't think there is a good solution so

[mystic cedar]

Solution: add gamma setting to game options

But nv is gonna make it so you dont need it ig idk

[eager ledge]

I will never understand peoples thought process for people that hate gamma users it’s literally part of your computer why not use it

[primal harbor]

what are you going to screenshot at night, it's pitch black

[primal harbor]

the literal definition of cheating is using 3rd party stuff to give you an advantage over others, I am just specifically talking about after night vision because the entire point of night vision is having a constricted range of being able to see but if you can just use gamma to see everything what is the point

I swear people are taking this out of context

Im talking about forcing night vision so people can't have an unfair advantage

and at that point gamma doesn't matter, because you can just adjust daytime to how you like it and night time to how you like it because there is nothing to abuse

so having gamma in the game when they force NV onto people then is a good idea

[eager ledge]

Correction it is not third party because you are just using your computer but if you were using a app on the other hand that would be third party but gamma is already built into every computer so it is not a third party

[primal harbor]

that still isn't the games intended purpose......

[hollow canyon]

Yes, the games intended purpose also isn't that some monitors are just brighter than others and allow people to see more

I remember the first time I was playing this game years ago - it was middle of the night, a complete darkness all around and my friend asked me if I see the two T.rexes on the other side of the lake meanwhile I wasn't even aware that there was a lake right next to us.

That's the difference between different monitors, neither of us was using gamma and yet one of us could see much better than the other.

[obtuse ocean]

pay 2 win : D

[hollow canyon]

sort of although tbh I'm not even sure if it's down to prices

and besides - many monitors just... allow you to change brightness on them? You don't even need to use any programs or even windows itself, you just press two buttons on your screen and there - everything is bright now

[brisk solstice]

the game is great but my camera is locked in one place unless i hold alt and i cant change it in settings and i cant grab food

[primal harbor]

I literally am just saying to lock the NV on people during the night so people can use whatever gamma they want because it wouldn't effect gameplay

[hollow canyon]

I mean I wouldn't be opposed to that

[primal harbor]

I am so confused why people are overcomplicating this

THAT IS WHAT THIS IS ABOUT

[hollow canyon]

Just saying that it's not really cheating to use gamma

different screens have different levels of brightness and show more or less detail in The Isle

[steady current]

Yes i am aware that humans stamina is excellent. And it’s game btw, if carno has better stam like it used to your immersion wont be ruined and it will be more enjoyable to play

[hollow canyon]

my old monitor I couldn't see a thing on, on the one I have now it's much better

[primal harbor]

yes I realized that, bredan didn't state correction till like his 3rd message

all I am saying is that would not matter if you force night vision

[brisk solstice]

when will all the bugs go away?????

[somber sphinx]

Bugs never goes away, you fix some and others appear

Bugs wil always be a thing no matter how mutch you try fixing it

[eager ledge]

What do you mean why would you need a app when it’s already built in at the factory level

[primal harbor]

well that just proves my point more, if just anyone can just see perfectly at night outside of night vision then the devs need to force night vision when it is night because that isn't the point of the game

people kept talking about this 3rd party shit when you can just do it on the computer confusing the fuck out of me

[eager ledge]

Are you talking about shaders or something because gamma and shaders are 2 different things

[primal harbor]

idfk dude people kept talking about 3rd party shit and that is what they call them this shit is confusing now cuz no one knows what they are talking about

all ik is if you are able to see perfectly at night that isn't the devs purpose

and forcing NV at night will fix that

[eager ledge]

I think they were talking about shaders and filters

[primal harbor]

thats all I suggested

that is fair that would make more sense

[tall bronze]

They've already said NV won't be forced for the sake of things like taking night pictures

Also fairly certain they've said they have a way to prevent gamma abuse, but haven't said what exactly. Unsure.

[primal harbor]

will there be nights where the moon is out and easier to see?

it feels like that would cause even more issues

[azure hinge]

I mean I don't hate them I just think it's a way around an intended mechanic

So it's kind of cheating but also one I don't care for

[hollow canyon]

do you also think that people with monitors that are by default brighter are cheating?

[primal harbor]

it isn't cheating, doesn't mean it isn't an issue

[hollow canyon]

does it make me cheat if I set my screen from "default" to "game" which causes it to get brighter? Or do I need to use a slider for that to be cheating?

[primal harbor]

we are just talking about how no matter how you have your settings it does not matter mechanics wise

if it is avoiding a whole mechanic of the game there is an issue

doesn't matter if it is cheating or not

[hollow canyon]

I mean I don't disagree, I'd personally probably prefer for NV to turn automatically on

like you suggested

I think I suggested that myself at some point, long, long time ago

the devs have stated that they don't intend to do that though

[primal harbor]

and if it isn't cheating it is still abusing because you are abusing gamma to get around a mechanic either way

[mellow zenith]

Why not using a photo mode that would disabled the auto NV but prevent the dino to move

[primal harbor]

cuz if they aren't making it like legacy where it is pitch black 24/7 at night there will be issues either way, you shouldn't have to go into your settings and change shit just so you can see, not everyone does that

[mellow zenith]

I was so hype when they talked about an auto/natural NV

[primal harbor]

same

it would be one less button on the keyboard too

[hexed sorrel]

more overpowered to play.

after seeing scope's video, I honestly think carno's blood pool is PERFECT. just buck, play smart, and USE THE ENVIRONMENT.

[hollow canyon]

Just for the record - the night in legacy is not pitch black. V3 nights are very bright and tbh you very often can see without using any gamma or anything else. Meanwhile Thenyaw is very dark to the point where even using gamma doesn't help(big reason for why Thenyaw>>>V3).

Btw regarding that Utah vs Carno thing - I'm watching Scope's video and 20 minutes in I honestly have no idea what happens later but he really shouldn't be surviving that unless Utahs do some major oopsie - Idk how he doesn't starve there.

Utahs have the superior hunger duration and they could just kill them via attrition as far as I can tell so this hiding on that cliff is only going to take you that far.

[azure hinge]

I mean increasing gamma to by pass a game mechanic isn't the same as having a bright monitor

[hollow canyon]

It kind of is since both result in the same thing

[azure hinge]

Not really but as I said before I don't really care about the subject because there is nothing you can do about it

[hollow canyon]

Alright so let me put it this way - me on my old monitor being blind like a molerat gets killed by me on my new monitor that lets me see much better at night - how is that any different to me getting killed by someone using gamma?

I die either way because the other player can just see me from much further away than I can see them

[azure hinge]

New monitors don't let you see better at night, that's not how it works

[hollow canyon]

It does, it very much does

that's exactly how it works, I still have my old screen and I remember how hard it is to see anything at night in The Isle when I use it

[azure hinge]

My friend has a brand new 900 $ monitor and my old 100 $ one I took from work, she can't see anything at night and i can

[hollow canyon]

the prices is completely and absolutely irrelevant

[azure hinge]

I guess brand new doesn't count it's like a year old

[hollow canyon]

there are just screens which let you see much further away

[azure hinge]

By nine I've had four around 7 years

[hollow canyon]

it doesn't matter how old they are either

the only thing that matters is how well you can see at night using them - some screens just let you see much better

[azure hinge]

What you just said new monitors allows you to see more

[hollow canyon]

I know people who could see in legacy as well as gamma users without even knowing about gamma

[hollow canyon]

MY new monitor

it's a specific case for me

[azure hinge]

O your new monitor

[hollow canyon]

I've had an old screen that made me blind like a molerat

my new one lets me see much better

but there are still people that see even better than that on their screens

without touching gamma or anything else

[azure hinge]

I mean yes depending on your monitor it does vary but that's why I said I don't care

About the subject

But it's still cheating if you specifically change settings to make it basically day time at night

[hollow canyon]

Idk if there are any settings that can make it basically daytime

[azure hinge]

99% of monitors don't make it day time at night unless you change settings

I mean I've done it plenty so you're wrong

[hollow canyon]

I mean as I said - idk

I know for sure there are some people that can see really well at night without touching gamma

[azure hinge]

That's what people mean when they say gamma abuse though....

They don't mean that some people have a little better vision

[hollow canyon]

Yea no, it's not "a little better"

you really don't get just how big of a difference a monitor can make

I saw it with my own eyes my friend sent me a picture of what he could see and when I sent him a picture of what I could see when we first played this game

he could see pretty much everything on his default settings

[azure hinge]

I mean I can tell you what abusing gamma is and is what i'm talking about is cheating

[hollow canyon]

and I'm telling you that there are people that don't have to change any gamma to see about as well as during the day

[azure hinge]

From the start I said I don't care because there is no way to handle it which includes monitors varying

Well no you're wrong chasing monitor settings can always make it better

[hollow canyon]

on my old screen I could probably crank up gamma to max to see as well as my friend would by default

it can make it better

[azure hinge]

That's the point I think you are missing

[hollow canyon]

I don't want to imagine what it would be like if he actually did use gamma

then again - that was years ago I'm pretty sure nights were different at the time

either way he wasn't even using night vision since it just wasn't worth it for him

since he would see less

and no, he didn't tinker with gamma it was our first time playing the game and we weren't even aware changing gamma had such effects on the game

[azure hinge]

Idk what your point is though in terms of this being about gamma abusers

Are you saying gamma abusing is fine to equal the playing field?

[hollow canyon]

My point is that there are people that don't have to use gamma to see as well as people that do

[hollow canyon]

No, it's not

I mean... maybe? If everyone sees everything at night I guess it's equal playing field?

then again idk if someone with a brighter monitor doesn't see even more if they use gamma

I'd have to use gamma on my old and new screen and see a comparison

[azure hinge]

Well no you are wrong gamma abusing isn't just gamma you can change multiple monitor and color settings to make it basically day out at night

And put it on a keybind

[hollow canyon]

well idk about that, I never got into changing that many settings

on my current monitor I just changed the mode from "default" to "game" and I see pretty much everything clearly

which I mean... "game" is probably meant for gaming in general

either way I'm hoping that whatever the devs do about it levels the playing field

getting killed by someone because they can see you and you can't see them just feels really bad

and it happened to me more than once in legacy

I literally walked into an adult T.rex while using my old monitor because I just couldn't see it - fresh adult giga right down the drain

[azure hinge]

I mean I said I don't think there is a good solution to gamma abusing so honestly they shouldn't touch it

[hollow canyon]

automatic night vision at night

or just make it so that you literally don't load animals that are outside of your night vision range

or make it pitch black outside of your NV range

[azure hinge]

I don't think that's a good solution to me

[hollow canyon]

there's... multiple solutions

those are good solutions to me, anything that sorts it out and levels the playing field is a good solution

[azure hinge]

None of those seem good to me

[hollow canyon]

why?

[azure hinge]

Idk they just seem annoying

[hollow canyon]

I mean the devs said they have some solution so I'm going to trust them with this one

hopefully whatever it is will make it so that everyone is in the same boat

[azure hinge]

Yeah we will see

[tiny salmon]

https://tenor.com/view/sweaty-speedrunner-epic-gamer-sweatyspeedrunner-gif-22461398

toxic stegos and tenos quitting the game to X my suggestion on bodycamping

[dusky surge]

@tiny salmon i play primarily carnivore and I'd still hate that change

[tiny salmon]

well elaborate since this is discussion

[dusky surge]

imagine nesting and defending your nest and getting sick lmao because you won against a utah

[strong solar]

imagine a carno or whatever carrying a dead hypsi and chasing herbivores with it

[dusky surge]

imagine a bunch of utahs running around with corpses in their mouth to force you to become sick

[strong solar]

also yeah bodycamping sucks but if you leave for a bit the herbivore will get bored and move on

[spring dagger]

toolusage amongst sentient dinosaurs

[strong solar]

or play on a ruled server

[spring dagger]

documented circa 2022

[strong solar]

[dusky surge]

or just beat the shit out of the other herbivore

[strong solar]

if its a stego you cant

but the stego would look goofy as hell protecting a body that nobody cares about

[mental roost]

It is very important to him

[raw reef]

bro why is everyone doing so much X for suggestions that say ''utahraptors pounce shouldnt be a magnet and teleport to your side if they pounce your atacks'' lmao

[dusky surge]

idk why since it isn't HARD to pounce the side of an opponent

[raw reef]

yeah

[dusky surge]

like its not intensely skilled to get to someone's side and pounce

[raw reef]

like,pouncing the tail may work too,sure but only on things with gigantic tails so utahraptor can hold on

teno,sure,but still from the side

carno,nah lmao

i know i make a lot of bad suggestions but looking at balance feedback just makes me sad sometimes

[silent isle]

Thats how I felt when I suggested that herbi plants should be better redistributed to actually have the plants spawn where they say they spawn instead of giving herbs, especially the top tier stego, an insanely easy time to get a perfect diet. Like I literally can spawn SE as stego, fill up on sumac, chill at the north center near the ravine and get a perfect diet without ever having to go back for sumac till full growth, shits ridiculous

[rapid flicker]

“Semi-related to the above suggestion: I think it'd be better for juvenile creatures to have slightly above average stamina, but very fast regeneration rather than the current nigh-endless stamina. This would allow juveniles to still travel easily while preventing them from just running non-stop, never really having to worry about stamina conservation.”

Why is the above mentioned idea not getting any upvoted ?? The endless stamina we have for juvies right now nee to be fixed!!

@𓁹‿𓁹#2975 now that carno finally has something that can challenge it youre gonna complain in the discord. I wonder, were you making any suggestions for balance when carno was stomping entire servers in update 4?

[crude blaze]

currently i think the problem with utah is just the instant recovery on the failed pounce really. but that's obviously, not a 'new' opinion

other than that and the teleporting i think it's pretty set.

[thin mantle]

Just needs the requirement of actually needing to land it's pounces on pounce slots instead of...everywhere, among a couple other things

[raw reef]

@crude blaze probably should have requested that in general feedback but yeah it looks really stupid lmao

[opaque beacon]

@hallow quiver Let me tell you something that regaurds the way pounce is canceling your tail slam. This is the same way if a pachy is ramming you as you are tail slamming, it just cancels out your tail slam if used in the wrong timing, you can hit Utahs before they pounce you if timed correctly. The pounce is not unbalanced about Utah, its the punishment of missing it.

The Utahraptor should be able to pounce you and get off safely. The whole risk is missing the pounce, but due to the game changes recently, they messed up the recovery time so thats what should be fixed.

Pounce should and will be dangerous, but missing it should be damn near lethal for a Utah

[opaque beacon]

What teleporting?

[obtuse ocean]

Prob when you pounce in the mouth of carno and teleports to the side

[opaque beacon]

Ohhh, yeah idk about that

If they do it correctly, Carnos can still move their heads in a fraction of a second and then it would break the game

Ya know like wiggiling your head

I would say leave it how it is, but if you pounce a carno as it bites you should take dammage which is already kinda happening

[obtuse ocean]

lol no, its skilless. Pounce should be incredible hard to land, and should only work from sides. Where timing comes in, way to easy now. The carno i did it to, did eveything right and i did eveything wrong. Still i enden up on his side, he chased me perfectly cut cornes etc

[dusky surge]

"incredibly hard to land" is a stretch lmao

just make it not work when aimed at heads lmao

thats all thats needed

[obtuse ocean]

For a utah sized dino its incredible op, you have everything. Speed/agility/small/jump and a incredible good ability. Mistakes should be punished hard. And i dont

[opaque beacon]

Well I can say holding shift and W with right click is skill less

Does that seem fair?

[obtuse ocean]

If you get charged by a carno? Thats deserverd, since you have every tool to avoid it.

[opaque beacon]

Idk how thats going to work, knowing a human is behind that screen playing, Utah can get countered so easily

[dusky surge]

how lmao

[opaque beacon]

You can run from a pounce, you can juke it, you have every tool to not let a utah hit you

[dusky surge]

back before head = teleport, you got knocked down

thats like saying trike is OP because you're going to instantly die if you pounce its head

[opaque beacon]

Knockdown? Thats not fair

[dusky surge]

you know what else isnt fair

having a utah magically latch to your side

[strong solar]

imagine you pounce a trike’s head and it teleports to its side

[opaque beacon]

Ok so you want it unfair towards the Utahs side? That fix your problems?

[dusky surge]

no

this isn't unfair at all

[opaque beacon]

That wont happen, they said you will die instantly

[dusky surge]

as a utah, you are more agile than your opponent and are meant to hunt in packs. A prey animal can only face one of you at a time

One distracts, one attacks the side

It's how it should be done

[strong solar]

Good. Now to make it fair for everybody else, if you pounce something like carno, stego, or teno on the head, it should get knocked down

not teleport to the side

does that make sense

[opaque beacon]

Knockdown means death, thats not right lmfao

[obtuse ocean]

Yea, but still i mange to just jump the carno in the face even tho he did exactly what you said.

[dusky surge]

knockdown is only 2 seconds, you can leave

[mellow zenith]

Well trike and carno doesn't have the same turn radius, so its ok to die if you pounce head on a trike

[strong solar]

You just gotta aim your pounces better

[dusky surge]

trike probably has a better turn radius lmao

[opaque beacon]

If its that easy make deino 1 tap stego in the head, its heads tiny and deino could snap it in half XD

[strong solar]

and escape to avoid being hit if you do make a mistake

[dusky surge]

????

not at all related

[opaque beacon]

Are you serious?

[strong solar]

Bro just don’t pounce the head it’s not that hard

[mellow zenith]

Only ? Lmao 2 seconds is long time bruh

[dusky surge]

my god, a punishment for running directly headfirst into a much large animal as a small pack-based creature! this isn't fair for me, the animal should be punished for simply being near my mighty pounce!

[strong solar]

it’s like a cat trying to pounce a pitbull’s mouth

[opaque beacon]

No no, this guy just said you can get up and run away

[strong solar]

What do you think is gonna happen

[opaque beacon]

Not like the carno is gonna shread you when your doing the knock down animation xd

[mellow zenith]

Still i agree on the take that pouncing a carno head and getting teleport on its side is f up

[opaque beacon]

More like throwing sharp knives on somethings head

[dusky surge]

while we're at it, let's make carno knock over stegos

[strong solar]

good, makes people want to get good at pouncing

[opaque beacon]

True but knockdown is not a solution lol

Knockdown=dead utah if even full hp

Play the missing pounce anim maybe that works good

[opaque beacon]

Or maybe you should avoid running into packs of Utahs as a singular carno

[dusky surge]

if a trike can IMPALE a utah for pouncing its head, why is an animal being knocked down suddenly ridiculous?

[mellow zenith]

Pounce should be high risk/high reward

[strong solar]

my cat and dog analogy works a lot better when talking about utah and carno

[opaque beacon]

Yeah thats why I said make the miss animation longer tf

[strong solar]

don’t jump into another dinosaur’s mouth and you won’t die

[opaque beacon]

So if you miss you can get close to death and fuck off

[dusky surge]

this isnt hard to grasp

idk why this is so offensive

dinos in this game have massive fucking flanks

[obtuse ocean]

Exactly , and if you do it. That could be the end

[dusky surge]

and as a pack, you can distract and capitalise on that distraction by pouncing the side

[opaque beacon]

Maybe get better at the game and not run directly at a Utah like that since you know they can latch on the front?

[mellow zenith]

Exactly

[dusky surge]

it makes the animal more skill-based, which apparently, is just too much for poor utahs

[strong solar]

mr utah wants utah to be a super dinosaur

[opaque beacon]

ITS NOT IT HAS 450 HP LMAO

[dusky surge]

carnos cant knock down animals when it hits the tails! this is COMPLETELY unfair!!!

[strong solar]

a super dinosaur who has the power of teleportation 😂

[obtuse ocean]

lol yea, gonna be utah simulator with some idiots playing dinos to feed em

[opaque beacon]

Get better at the game and stop whining about not being able to hit it a couple of time lmfao

[mellow zenith]

Its simple, they just have to put a latch point in the front but you will get bite during your pounce

[obtuse ocean]

Im a usless utah, and i still manange to do it with ease

[opaque beacon]

THATS literarly what I said earlier

[opaque beacon]

Good job

[mellow zenith]

A knockdown is easier tho

[opaque beacon]

Did you all watch scope play carno on update 5?

[dusky surge]

"it has 450HP"

oh no, i have low HP while having

• the best bleed power in the game
• high stamina
• high speed
• great regen
• exceptional agility
• the power to jump
• good trot speed and trot regen

woe is me!

[mellow zenith]

And clearly, for once the pounce work so, i don't really want them to mess up with it for a while (stats wise excluded)

[strong solar]

Arguing with this guy is useless, he just wants it to have teleportation powers

[dusky surge]

it confirms my personal belief that anyone with a raptor-based name and pfp wants raptors to be GODS

[opaque beacon]

Lmao, did you watch the video or not?

[strong solar]

he would rather die on the hill than change his mind

[opaque beacon]

Ill send you the link

[mellow zenith]

The teleportation is f up anyways and is not fair imo

[opaque beacon]

See how he messes up Utah so easily

[dusky surge]

Wow, a highly edited video made to show specific highlights of an animal's killing power makes carno look good! This must mean that it's perfect and utah requires no changes!

[strong solar]

yeah sorry I don’t want to be advertised on in balance feedback and discussion lol

[opaque beacon]

YOU said its UNBALANCED. You are just bad at the game and blaming it on Utahraptors

https://youtu.be/vDbTvaWtIRs

[mental roost]

And a pounce ability that renders the user free from damage(if the target is solo that is but eh....just a minor side note)

Irrelevant when you have pals but solo play is fun.

Before anyone says anything: yes I know buck exists.

Haven't been able to play this branch much at all sadly because the Isle likes to COOK MY FUCKING CPU.

[opaque beacon]

Here watch

[obtuse ocean]

lol yea, and its like me showing video of the best player in the world. And say, just do this.

[dusky surge]

I literally play utahraptor. It's my favourite animal. I hate the fact this fucking thing takes no skill and barely relies on pack play

[opaque beacon]

Watch the video

[dusky surge]

WHAT DOES A CARNO VIDEO HAVE TO DO WITH UTAH BALANCE

[strong solar]

Bro I play utahraptor and carno all the time, I want their matchup to be balanced and fair

[dusky surge]

LMAO

[opaque beacon]

BECAUSE YOU CAN KILL IT IF YOU HAVE SKILL IN THE GAME

[obtuse ocean]

Cus he wants to have no skill no aim, just pounce the face and your good to go

[opaque beacon]

Your just whining because your bad

[strong solar]

This is an argument my 14 year old brother would make

[mellow zenith]

Damn, its really just like you said lmao

[dusky surge]

I play the same fucking animal you do. I'm whining because I'm too good. Utah lost the charm of the pack hunt since pouncing is free

[opaque beacon]

LMAO, you still gonna whine or watch the video? It will explain alot

[dusky surge]

I kill all I touch with my clawed hands

[dusky surge]

I've watched the video, it's a meaningless argument

The entire video is dipshit utahs running in straight lines and rightfully dying for it

[strong solar]

I am xxx_carno_slayer_xxx the black and red utahraptor 😈😈 I will kill ALL carnotaurus with my own claws 😈😈😈😈

[obtuse ocean]

Imagine if pounce gonna be like this, you know how op abilites for the rest of the rooster gonna be to balance stuff out.

[opaque beacon]

Good, than you know Utah can be killed easily, the skill base of other dinosaurs has been raised and they have to learn how to play the game in a skillfull way know to make a kill

[mental roost]

The pounce at 5:00 looks like such bullshit to me personally..

Unfortunately, that's less a pounce stat thing as much as how pounce is coded right now or something.

[dusky surge]

It can be killed easily if bad, indeed. If it's any bit competent, it wins lmao

God damn, you really love your fave animal

The only thing I want is the headpounce gone

That's literally it

[obtuse ocean]

im not even close to competent with utah, and i still do it

[dusky surge]

I don't want utah to be "dogshit tier", I want it to not have a teleport pounce

[opaque beacon]

Yeah skill = kills, idk if you figured that out

[dusky surge]

"skill = kills"

and yet utah doesn't need it when pouncing, it can go straight to the face, no skill required. What's up with that?

[opaque beacon]

Its not my fault the teno isnt bucking or the carno is playing with a brain the size of a peanut

[strong solar]

utah rn can be played by a toddler and they will still be able to bleed out a Carno then kill it’s entire family

[dusky surge]

My brother in Christ I don't want utah to be bad, I've had fun with him, I just want this ONE THING fixed

[opaque beacon]

If you want it fixed, that will break Utah once again lmao

[dusky surge]

how???

[keen plover]

How though

[obtuse ocean]

And its not just that its op in fighting, its that you have speed/agility/stam. You can cover 10x more land then bigger dinos looking for prey. ANd you choose 90% of your fights. You can walk away or fight it, you can decide.

[strong solar]

how

[dusky surge]

what argument is this

[keen plover]

Ignoring any bugs, why would you not change it for this? How does it "unfairly" change the matchup?

[strong solar]

I believe it’s very clear he wants utahraptor to be able to teleport

[opaque beacon]

Your a carnivore, you pick your fights

[mellow zenith]

The discussion wasn't about pouncing the head of a carno and get teleported on the side bs ?
That video prove nothing (except that lone utah running in straighy line derserve to die)

[dusky surge]

"don't fix utah's weird pounce shit because... I have a psychic prediction it'll break utah."

wonderful

[obtuse ocean]

Allo wont be able to fight you, you choose.

[strong solar]

@opaque beacon

[dusky surge]

exactly, no clue what the carno vid has to do with utah teleportation but apparently it's imperative we watch it

[opaque beacon]

How tf can a Utah run away from a carno lmfao, carno must be ass lmfao

[keen plover]

It's easy?

[dusky surge]

by turning, jumping or literally any of its vast options? can you seriously NOT outrun carnos?

[keen plover]

Idk bro, so many terrain changes, bushes, trees, rivers

[obtuse ocean]

You dodge it by ease!

[mellow zenith]

Zig zag in the wood ?

[dusky surge]

it's child's play to outrun a carno lmao

[strong solar]

are you talking about legacy

[keen plover]

They also nerfed the bite range iirc

Or fixed it rather *

[mellow zenith]

They pretty much made it on par with the other playable, before it was ridiculous

[dusky surge]

is mr utah one of those people in the video running in a straight line and dying? Because that would explain a bit.

[opaque beacon]

Oh buddy, ignoring bugs I am not, its dying from accidently pouncing a carno on its head seems extreme dont you think lmfao

[dusky surge]

"accidentally"

my brother in christ you chose when to pounce

[opaque beacon]

Try me

[obtuse ocean]

accidently? if you pounce the head you did a huge mistake

[strong solar]

😈😈😈

[keen plover]

Dying makes no sense, it should count as a missed pounce or something

[strong solar]

bro I’m cracking up this is too much

[dusky surge]

im so excited for troodon so i can stop associating with utah mains lmao

i love utah but goddamn these people

[mental roost]

sidenote: why should Utah be rewarded for pouncing the deadly end of the Carno(or Tenoto, cause claws)?? Shouldn't that be on the fault of the Utah for poor timing and positioning?

Of course, there's ping, lag, hit reg issues etc but that's a bit more complicated.

Not saying that the Utah deserves to be deleted if it does this but... I mean it shouldn't be a get out free card either.

[opaque beacon]

Exactly, these guys saying you should go to the knockdown animation which is a dead utah lmfao

[dusky surge]

because that's how it used to be

[opaque beacon]

Do we need to talk about the lag?

[obtuse ocean]

I loved carno before, but never did i say they needed buff and i upvoted tons of stuff to nerf em. Utah mains dont see it from both views