balance-feedback

[fossil swift]

Rebalancing Apexes

I think the biggest design issue of Rex that it's overly reliant on crush. the fight is completely decided by fractures, damage almost a non factor for Rex in an Apex vs Apex fight.
Rex could have 300 damage and still win a fight if the Trike/Stego is body and leg-broken. This isn't a great design. They have still pleanty of health left, but they're practically dead.

I would suggest to shift more Rex's power towards damage than fracture. Fracture, of course should still play a significant role in the fight, but it shouldn't be the entire deciding factor of it.

This would also allow to generally nerf the negative status of what bone-break is. Bone-break simply cannot stay this strong, as it's able to disable entire kits of the prey items, while they are still around 60-70% health.

Let's see :

Nerf leg-break/body-break/fractures as a whole-mechanic. As I said before, it should have a significant role, but it shouldn't be just the only one that matters. This is a big thing, so I will split it to multiple points

• Nerf stamina consumption while being body broken : This single handedly destroys Stegosaurus. Yes, you should have increased stamina drain if you are fractured, but not on this level.

• Leg-break/Body-break shouldn't be able to disable entire kits. It shouldn't disable alt-attacks, leg/body break shouldn't remove Stego's ability to swing. Alt attacks should be still available, but with increased stamina consumption.

**• Defensive Stance - Fracture relation : **Trike (or any future playable that will have a stance) should still have acces to it's stance after being broken. Simply reduce it's capabilites. Obviously, you won't be able to run. Stance turn should be reduced and probably it should consume a slight amount of stamina to be in this stance after being broken. The point is, it should not be completely disabled.

Just with this change, both Trike and Stegosaurus will have a much better, fair fight against the big guy.

• Increase Rex's turn radius. It is ridiculously agile for it's size. I don't want it to turn like a boat either, but it shouldn't be able to dance around things. I would probably say that Allos running turn radius would fit Rex much better.

• Nerf Rex's ambush speed duration.
Reduce the Ambush speed duration from 15 seconds to 8 seconds

Slight rework/changes for Crush :

• Increase it's cooldown to 6 seconds

• If your crush misses, your coldwoon should increase to 10 seconds

Now some positive changes to Rex, to not tip to the other side of Rex being a terrible Apex.

As I said, we are shifting power from fractures towards damage:

• Increase Rex's regular bite damage to 950

• Crush should no longer ignore locations. It should have the same negative/positive/neutral multiplier as regular attacks

Stegosaurus changes

• Change the weight curve of Stegosaurus. 75% Stego should not fall prey to a Pin. Stegosaurus should be 7 ton at 75%

• Stegosaurus Tail-swing should be no longer disabled entirely

Trike Changes

• Speed up the Trash attack animation, so it's no longer an endless opening after each bait. Trade-off should be that it should have a reduced damage compared to what it is now.

• Buff Trike's defensive stance turn radius to atleast match Rexes turn.

• Introduce stun/staggering to Trike's alt attacks

I believe all these changes would create a much more healthier balance between the Apexes.

[gusty vessel]

Make juvenile Troodons faster—they can't even catch a chicken or a frog.

[honest yoke]

add more to austroraptor’s diet. especially in ~100 player servers, it’s difficult to find diet foods outside of spearfishing. other small dinosaurs like pteros and troodons should contribute. this shouldn’t be enough to draw austro too far away from water sources, as spearfishing is a good reliable source of diet food, and austro can use water to escape predators

[simple frigate]

Trex should have better stamina, mobility & hunting agility than both trike & stego.

Trike & stego are supposed to be defensive dinos but most of them charge & pursue Rexes which should be a fatal mistake for them.

Fix the hunger of Rex or bring big AI all over the map so it can travel long distances without dying of hunger.

Rex have to be a dominating apex & every dino should avoid picking a fight with it.

BALANCING DOES NOT MEAN YOU TAKE AWAY THE VERY CHARACTERISTICS OF THE DINO ITSELF.

[ancient orchid]

Buff the freaking bees, an adult can run throught sanc, one tap most people and get out barely hurt and also remove the places where bees don't attack inside the sanc
and this is even more so to raptors, gali etc that has +50km running speed who can parkour to the inside of the sanc, kill people and get out

[last grove]

Buff austro’s oxygen capacity, I can hold my breath longer than it and it’s a semi aquatic animal ☠️😂😭

[cinder eagle]

Please fix Deino finally. It's such a pain to play at the moment.

• Increase hunger time, it drains too fast
• Increase underwater vision, can't see anything
• Fix fish AI
• Maybe add schooling fish as a diet? It would make it easier for babies and for adults it doesn't give much anyway
• Make the water murky again? Why on earth is the water blue.

[silk timber]

Update on my opinion for feedback. Austro is actually quite fast on land, you just have to get through 70% of the growth to get there... should probably have a better speed curves at lower growth stage. Also, if austro isnt going to be faster in the water, should have much better water vision since you cant outrun deinos in the water, should atleast be able to identify threats through vigilance. Should also probably have much better fall resistance, as throughout its life cycle jumping is the only consistent evasive manuver available, and with its incredibly light weight you really shouldn't be breaking legs from a jump on a gentle slope. Lastly, should probably have more consistent ai availability in the water, as schooling fish seem extinct and with its current diet, you play it like 95% on land unless you are willing to risk croc food ( for nothing because no fish are spawning outside of spearfishing). Also relevant to balance, pls make clams easier to crack with some kind of ui showing possibl rocks to use, and maybe make then b or y diets.

[coral charm]

Please scale rex's pin dmg correctly its so annoying when u die in less than a second to a fresh sub rex thats almost out of stamina

[summer drum]

Please fix Allosaurus and Ceratosaurus Speed matchup
the "Corpse camper" should not be able to chase down the bleeder and being able to 5v3 (literally inbuild 40% natural bleed resist(not even adding the corpse bonus btw lol) + being able to outrun allo)
for those who dont know we talking allo is 0.64km/h~ slower while sprinting same with trotting cera being up to 1.8kmh faster

[delicate wren]

Can we make the stat curves while growing for playables better or worse based on their size/intended difficulty of growth rather than just being arbitrary? It really makes growing some of the smaller dinos even more difficult than growing an apex (when it really should be the opposite). Here are some of the main outliers I have noticed:

Troodon and herrera juvie being incredibly slow and too small to hunt any of the ai reliably. These things have about as bad of an early game as deino for no reason. Just bump up their starting speed or add ai for tiny juvies like them to eat at least.

Maia's speed curve keeping it slower than cera until it's nearly 65%, theres no reason it should take so long to reach that speed as a dino designed to run away from most threats. Make it ramp up to 40kph by like 35-40% then slowly gain speed to adult from there.

The disparity between juvie diablo and juvie trike speed. There is no reason trike should start off faster while diablo runs like it has a broken leg off spawn. Either speed diablo up to trike's speed, slow trike down to diablo, or both.

With pachy's weight buff, it needs its speed curve tweaked so that it isnt peak speed at nearly 500kg. It should peak at around 300kg and decrease again from there.

Juvie ceras staying slower than their adult counterparts their whole growth. I really don't see a good reason as to why juvie cera doesnt have even a slight speed increase while growing, especially now that allo is around and it even gets a speed increase around its sub stage.

[solid spindle]

Nerf omni damage pounce to 1500
Slightly buff omni bleed pounce

[fickle trout]

• Remove prime Speed Buff from dinos that dont rely on speed (basicly everything that isnt galli, carno Or any tiny tier)
• remove prime trot speed buffs fully
• make 100% primes same biteforce and speed as 100% frails

[sweet heart]

Adding an idea to this- perhaps the bees cause a stacking damage debuff (you deal less damage the longer you, too big for sanc, are within the sanc) instead of dealing more damage to deter camping? Perhaps with a 3-5ish minute wear off timer too to really discourage camping from raptors and others since even if they leave they will be vulnerable for a short period to any real fights

[simple frigate]

A stego should not be able to catch up with Rex like that.

Stego's gameplay should be defensive instead of offensive. You should not make a herbivore able to actively hunt an apex carnivore.

[solid spindle]

Remove the speed increase from Prime Maia

Nerf some it’s damage but keep its cc values the same and attack speed what Maia needed before the buffs was to have a faster attack speed since it kind of had low damage output and attack speed for its size but it could run away from most threats however the damage buffs are too much for something that fast

Give Maia a slightly better growth curve to reach over 40kmh around 40-50%

Option 2 if the balance changes above are a bit too much you can nerf its bleed res and fracture res to make Maia more vulnerable to allos and other stuff

[winter cloak]

Pinslop Bandaid Ideas:

• Limited pounce/crush charges for allo and rex (like dilo clones/dryo hop) encourage tactical use, not spam.
• More consequences for missed crushes/pounces (longer self-stun worsens as more charges are emptied?) creates more opportunities for agile prey to punish or escape.
• Increased stamina cost for latching proportional to size of the animal doing the pouncing, so juvi rex/allo, as well as troo & omni, are less affected. But adult allos should only be bothering if they can actually coordinate a grapple, and screwing it up puts them in a place of vulnerability.
• Pounce/crush shouldn't work on heads/faces or tails (counts as a miss with corresponding punishment)

That way pin/grapple is still an option at a fundamental mechanical level, but other approaches are incentivized to keep combat more engaging for all parties involved. Also, nerf allo's bite speed.

[humble rain]

Austroraptor feels a little weak to survive all together. Dont get me wrong, they are incredibly beautiful and their raptor like demeanour could do them well to be able to shine in their amphibious lifestyle.
I've killed SO many austros in the Horde Test, it is very easy to catch them and go against a big pack.

I think to make fights against them fun is to give them a leap-out-of-water mechanic like Beipis so they could outmaneuver Deinos, and on land they could have a slow fall by activating their wings so they could dupe players to die from cliffs.

[young socket]

Kentro Balance:

This is more of a concept.
So before I mentioned the idea of kentro debuffing rexes that crush them right on the spines and puncture the roof of the mouth, but that the debuff should not apply to smaller creatures like raptors who could realistically reach their heads between the spines and bite the body.

What if we leaned into kentro's ecosystem niche being an 'anti-large' (not that large things like rexes can't attack them but they get seriously debuffed if they do so it's discouraged; if the roof of their mouth is punctured it impales the nasal cavity and prevent smelling for the duration of the debuff and bad stuff like that)
But while Kentro could be an 'anti-large' it could be made weaker to smalls. Maybe allow troodons specifically to be able to pounce between the spines. Kentro still has so much bleed and the ability to one-shot smalls like troodon, so I don't see the harm in allowing kentro to be an anti-large porcupine that is challenging but possible prey for smalls and some mids.

So, I say a concept but basically I'm giving an idea for 'what direction to balance kentro in'. We should make it's 'anti-large vs pro-small' debuffs and whatever weight-dependent, so technically really small juvi rexes wouldn't get their nasal cavity pierced, or anything small for that matter, but anything big would.

Make Kentro have to grow to xyz age before it earns it's anti-large debuffs, just like dilo and troo have to grow to an age to earn their venom.

[wet walrus]

I didn’t play austro yet but it feels like it’s going to be crazy abused on baby/sanc camping since it’s so god damn fast it probably should be a lil slower since it has an escape to the water which most Dino’s don’t have

[honest yoke]

being a semi-aquatic dinosaur, austro shouldn’t lose stamina while slow-swimming, just as dinosaurs dont lose stamina while trotting. since austro can slow-swim on en empty stamina bar anyways, its inconsistent. maybe it shouldn’t recover stamina while slow-swimming, but at least not losing stamina would be nice.

[unreal hatch]

Buff peak prime Beipi to 250kg

[vital needle]

Make austro lose less stamina when running and pls increase its trot speed
(and way less fall damage)

[last grove]

Make fast getting up using the movement keys take stam to use again.

[alpine pivot]

Repeated again but buff Prime Teno to 2.1 tons

[midnight arch]

Reconsider some of the Troodon changes on hordetest?
The new venom is neat, but I feel like it's going to be a mixpack's paradise having a Troodon around to blind your targets.
Last I checked the Troodon directional pounce was removed. Consider giving it back? Having another raptor around that almost seems tailor made to hunt Troodons (runs much faster, jumps further, can pin them) means Troodons will need some form of escape method. The game is way more open now and a lot of the underbrush has been removed. It also seems Austro spawns in all the spots where Troodon spawns.
For example the creatures Troodons are intended to hunt all have their escape methods. Hypsi can climb, Pteras can fly away, Dryos have a dodge mechanic, etc.
Troodon needs a way to escape from Austroraptor.

[last grove]

Allos bite speed needs to be nerfed ASAP it’s dps is so high it can straight up face tank stuff.

[clever trout]

make rex crush be similar to cera charged bite, where you have to charge to get the max crush damage not just tap it and boom,maybe charge for 3 seconds to reach max damage, it's like this with pachy headbutt why rex gets special treatment

[cursive portal]

DECREASE Herrera fall damage/fall leg break until its basically extremely rare.
You've made a dinosaur with the intention of falling into other dinos. Its not worth the effort if its a glitchy mess/unable to drop from huge heights/

[last grove]

To add onto this make it that rex has to open its jaw wide like cera or just some type of animation change so that players can recognize that the rex is charging its crush just like how if an allo is holding its pounce you can see it having a different animation same with carno,pachy,cera, etc and while its charging its bite make it turn worse &/or make it run slower like cera or pachy, this wouldn't effect rex's ambush potential since when its charging its crush it wont make a lot of noise like cera and it will still be able to instant pin dinos significantly smaller than it with the instant tap RMB crush, for example i believe that a rex that weighs 8 tons should be able to instant pin a dino that weighs 2-3 tons maybe even 4 tons with an uncharged tap RMB crush, but for anything bigger if you want to actually deal good damage and fractures you will need to charge your crush, overall though this is just one thing that is needed to make rex more balanced because as it stands rex's crush and its speed and agility need changes.

[fickle trout]

Solution to apex mixpacking

Hunger time change:

Smaller dinos = slower hunger drain
Bigger dinos = higher hunger drain

Example:
Rex new hunger drain 30-45 min (old 2h)
Troodon new hunger drain 1.5-2 h

Increase plant food amount (so its possible To get diets with this new Change)

This Change would make mixpacking with apexes nearly impossible due to food drain
This would not effect mixpacking with smaller tiers but small tier mixpacks are much easier to get rid off so i dont think it would be a problem

If mix herding becomes a problem then remove grazing

If you think this system is flawed Or you have question then tell/ask me on balance-feedback-discussion

[unreal hatch]

Allo feedback : Turn Allo into an effective pack hunter against larger prey. Since it's in the higher end of mid-tier it should be good at punching up in weight especially in packs.

Make Allo more effective at taking down larger prey such as Trike, Stego and Rex rather than a pinslop machine against anything smaller than it.

Instead of full on pinning it should be more focused on getting in bleed attacks and dodging in and out of attacks against larger prey.

Make the pounce a temporary latch that grabs onto the side of prey utilizing it's claws and a slam down of the hatchet bite then it jumps straight off.

Give Allo a charge hatchet bite or something that gives it more potency with it's hatchet bite as that would of been it's main method of attack as far as I have seen, landing hits that then bleed a target as the Allo follows behind.

[young socket]

I think it should be possible to see how injured a creature is from scars or blood on the body. Not an exact tell but, an animal who is 25% away from being dead shouldn't look the same as an animal who is 75% away from being dead like the current little scars you see on their bodies.

[alpine oasis]

How long till we deal damage back to pinning dinos or have a sort of minigame to battle it out(when we full stamina and full hp we should fight back right)? Boring mechanic and hated by everyone...

[last grove]

Remove a lot of the safe water spots to drink so deino can be more effective, most of them either starve or get cannied since almost nobody drinks where they are at risk of getting grabbed.

[boreal flame]

Yall I think allo needs an attack speed nerf, I don't see why its not being fixed, its been quite a while.

[last grove]

nerf omni dmg pounce to 500 dmg with full stam max

[fickle trout]

Honestly dont nerf the allo bite since diablos head reflection dmg is coming (hopefully) it wont be a problem anymore
Also Maias can just choose to run so it wont be a problem either

[vivid dragon]

Hi I recommend nerfing juvie rex.
When it's 700kg, it can onetap a prime dilo at the same weight as itself. When it's 600kg it can onetap prime omnis.
That just isn't fair imo.

[boreal flame]

Allo shouldn't pounce or pin, I don't know why we keep acting like it's realistic, natural or fair, like at that point, give pin to everything!

[last grove]

Remove all prime dino speed increases besides maybe carno, but id be happy if they all were removed either way.

[normal epoch]

QA will be monitoring this channel for feedback on current gameplay balance in EVRIMA. One message per balance suggestion and give reasons as to why you believe the change would benefit the game. Posting troll comments will not be tolerated and will result in being muted from typing in this channel. Discuss topics in #balance-feedback-discussion.

[wicked gulch]

increase hitbox size on small dinos to make them easier to hit

[lavish tundra]

Ability to have more effective dodging? For example side stepping, etc. Would make for better movement in my opinion, primarily for smaller lightweight dinosaurs or medium dinosaurs.

[unreal dust]

In my opinion Utah should definitely be a bleeder dino, as we know, dilo will have a new advantage - venom, so for me, comparing it to legacy and that they're in the same tier, utah should have more bleed, especially with his pounce.

[hazy zinc]

Give certain attacks the ability to hit multiple targets at once. One of the big changes in evrima was no longer being able to drag your hitbox to damage more than one opponent with a single hit. While its works with bite and other short range attacks like utahraptor's bite, this severely hinders other attacks like tenonto's tail slam, kick, and claw swipe attack. Those three attacks cover a wide area, and only being able to hit one opponent at a time does not make sense.

[misty oar]

Drastically cut sprint stamina across the board. Combat stam is good, but the sprint stam last so long it's basically unlimited. This invalidates having to plan things like ambushing as you can just beeline things from any distance. I typically have to rest my finger before the actual dino needs a rest sprinting. It also makes those new great trot speeds in Evrima pointless, as you can sprint for so long you don't need to trot.

[hollow sonnet]

do not include BS bone break mechanics like legacy has for any dino ever

[cedar plover]

This document originally posted in the discord on October 19th, was when during a short period in #401464048610312195 people in the community who played the current public build of Evrima came together to formulate this document regarding how Tenontosaurus' current balance problems degrade its gameplay and how the current flaws Tenontosaurus is subject to could be further worsened by future additions if not given attention. Reposting it in here because it might get some more attention with a potentially refreshed perspective.
I apologize for the length of the introductory post, not sure if it is improper to post it in this fashion in this chat.
(Comments from people who know if/how much of these stated problems have been addressed would be great)

Original Post: #general-feedback message
"Currently in Evrima, Tenontosaurus struggles to deal with Utahraptor in 1 on 1 combat. While the community voice on this matter at large is jumbled and inconsistent. I am aiming to create a document in which the flaws of Tenontosaurus in the current build are revealed in a reasonably proposed manner and coming up with some solutions for how these flaws can be addressed regarding the upcoming future of Evrima, and how Tenonto should be adjusted before Update 2 lands on our plates."
https://docs.google.com/document/d/16ek0SXp8xZAgYQEWfDrS5Tt9RcGd0chMF_lEbDB3nz8/edit?usp=sharing

[lavish tundra]

Idk if this is related to balance but the bush scent is broken

[jagged cape]

a 1.4 ton predator charged you at nearly 90km per hour? walk it off dryo, not even a flesh wound.
all jokes aside, I feel like this is bullshit.

[real edge]

I think that most attacks, if not all of them, should have some sort of crowd control or stagger. For example, if a Tenonto kicks a Utah, it should at least stagger a little bit, not to be able to simply facetank it and biting back like the dinos do in legacy. I believe it would incentivise fighting more smartly, even with a powerful dinosaur, since you couldn't simply tank the opponents attacks and outdamage them. I'm thinking of something like in most fighting games, where if you take a hit you stagger and it cancels your attacks. It shouldn't apply to every attacks on every dinosaur, since I can barely imagine a dryo staggering a carno by pecking its knee.

[feral hedge]

Can you create Individual Cool Downs for attacks and set them within the Specific Playable's animation. Current animations have three different sections that can be recognized as Start Up-Pay Off-Return. To give a quick example, Tenonto's Claw Attack has a Start Up where it raises up and jabs with its first claw, a Pay Off with its second claw that actually does dmg, and then a Return with it going back to its original stance. I feel this would make combat more entertaining and fluid, while also giving you (the devs) more control over the playables limits. Say we have our same Tenonto just spamming the Claw Attack, you can set a natural debuff with stamina by Increasing the animation time of the Start Up and Return while Decreasing the animation time of the Pay Off. You would increase the window where it couldn't do dmg and decrease the window where it couldn't. While we're at it, please extend Tenonto's Pay Off to include the first paw jab.

[hollow ridge]

Teno kicks should send utahs up in the air a bit and make them fall on the ground. It feels wrong that utahs practicly withstand the powerfull kick from a tenanto with no knockback. However when a utah falls it should be able to quickly get up, unlike when a carno hits it. (I dont feel like this should be that big of a priority but perhaps something to concider if tenantos needs a buff)

[dense cave]

The new Stego should be able to enabled to break legs in chances, since whats the logic of a rex breaking legs since they attack from the neck, not from the legs. So please remove the leg break in rexes it will make a better balancing towards the game since anky has nothing apart from dmg and another idea for the new anky is that to make it more tanky. make it as slow as you want and as bad at swimming but atleast strengthen my favorite dinosaur. ^^

[marsh aspen]

when spawning in as a juvie, make the server spawn u near adults of the same species for mid-tiers and low-tiers, not apex carnivores, cuz then it will be way too easy to grow a rex or giga or spino, but apex herbis like trike, spawn them near adults of the same but not as often as mid and low-tiers

[vast forge]

Are there any plans beyond Nesting to spawn in nearer to your friends? It’s a hard sell for a lot of people I know when they want to pack/herd up and either die trying after an hour or simply can’t find their way to me. Especially on their first try, and without being able to see them across the map.

[lavish tundra]

If there will be stunning in the game, (carnotaurus ramming into dinos, hypsi spit, etc.) make it so you cannot be stun locked, stun locking isn't fun.

[lavish tundra]

I think the time to die from starvation/dehydration needs a bit of fine tuning.

• I think dehydration should kill you faster in general. Water is easier to find/dehydration in general can kill anything faster than starvation ( I don't know if it does or not)
• Most of the animals can handle starvation way better than dehydration, so please consider to nerf starvation dmg/tick. Finding food is also harder than a water source.

And I get it, It's a survival game, hunger and thirst are your enemies, but you just die too quickly.

[solar dew]

I was thinking about a thing that people talk often.
With the Perks and Nest system new things will come and i see people talking about Grab living dinosaur like BeastOfBermuda.
So the thing is. That some Dinosaurs could grab there Babys but only with a special ability or Perk orientated in Nesting. So it would be nice that the players who like Nesting or not, have the possibility to choose such ability in the Perk System and specialize in parenting and protect the younglings or have the ability to put more eggs.
This mechanic could lead to a lot of fun and interesting gameplay.
So yeah, in short. Some Perk ability specialized in Parenting and Nesting that give you the possibility to grab your babys or let them climb in your head (like the Deino, the croc boi)

[mint relic]

The ideal Carnotaurus is:

High damage and high attack speed, if you let it get on you, you have trouble
The CC inflicted makes shit more susceptible to CC; if a Carno rams you, another ramming you within a very short time after would have increased potency (so say you ram an Allo, Allo flinches; hit it again within a short time (using another Carno) and it staggers; another blow and the fucker goes down, so 3 Carnos can knock an Allo over IF coordinated)
Low stamina, if you can juke it a few times, you can escape it
Fractures absolutely fuck its capacity to hunt
High tolerance to CC due to the tail acting as a good balance (not saying it wont get knocked over by really big hits, but decently good balance overall)
Low health regen and higher % gets locked off if heavily injured
Low base stamina means bleed is a problem for it (less blood loss for it to run out of stam)
Credit goes to Why Watt for this suggestion (They aren't in this discord anymore, again not my idea) (I had put it in the wrong feedback channel, apologies)

[stable leaf]

Speed and stamina balance: If you get out of breath in evrima or legacy now you just swap to walking but since you are implementing seamless changes in stats and growth, why not go further and have stamina bound to speed? as like having 100% stamina for running and if you exhausted all this you start getting slower (another 100%) you hit normal walking-speed.

as like having a smooth glide between running and walking based on stamina, if you keep your stam above the first 100% you are atleast save to run for a while but your counterpart too - if a pack of fully rested allos meets a pack of half rested utahs the fight can go a bit different than meeting a full rested one.
Every game has the run until stam is gone than you walk - type of mechanic, would be cool if isle would go a smoother way.

just a little idea that came up while playing.
thx for reading!

Edit: I imagine it like supporting an active gameplay suited for a big map you try to maintain being busy instead of having a waiting - game for stats to load up. same for attacks. Maybe try add an invisible bar for adrenaline rush mechanics, so you can kind of stack attacks until its stam only allows each attack after some delay. Maybe even going so far that your attack animations start looking weak until your only option is to run cause your attacks are of no danger.
hm idk how hard that would be to create but I kinda like smooth transitions. that's for sure just a (my) personal preference

[mortal musk]

Make the juvies trot more quickly as well as run.

[lavish tundra]

An in depth, but easy to grasp diet system with a UI that's appealing and simple on the eyes. Since the majority of carnivores are obligatory to only meat, give only variations of the type of meat that benefits them mostly to their niche. Ex: Carno is the predator that hunts small tiers most effective, so encouraging the playstyle in it's diet gives a feedback loop of it being encouraged in it's niche. Raptors with Hadrosaurs, Cerato's with scavenging rotten flesh, etc. Though it should never be mandatory for the experience, it should be sought after to reap the benefits. I'm not forgetting the beloved Herbivores as well. For them, the diet system should be ever more important and diverse from their carnivore counterparts. Branching off to multiple different food types with different nutritional values depending on the dinosaur, in almost every biome and every area within the map, their should be fruits, veggies, wheats, fibres, grains, poisons, seeds/nuts, and minerals all exist within a Herbivores potential food range. Each one having different effects, buffs, and nerfs to one herbi dino's wellbeing. Granted starvation shouldn't be an issue thanks to the grazing mechanic. So your life isn't based on rng spawn rates like in Legacy. But rewards and buffs are granted to those who understand the system and actively seek self improvement to their character by exploring/scavenging to their needs. Same goes for Carni's who do the same with their selected prey. Having an actively kept ideal diet as an effort for surviving long, could even be a reward for decreased load time to Elder/late game. It could also be an optional minigame for Herbi's to seek optimal performance to increase interest in their playstyle, rather than being hide, grow, die. Another thing to add on to last is, a healthy dinousar will even get small growth benefits to the eggs it raises.

[feral hedge]

Make Starvation and Dehydration a Debuff. Instead of it being a several minute countdown til death, consider just inflicting players with a long term status affect that works in tiers the same way New Bleed and Fractures will.

Starvation can reduce your Healing and Maximum Health.

Dehydration can reduce your Resting and Maximum Stamina.

Either status can nerf your Growth before you reach 100%, possibly creating a (near) life long disability in the form of some nerfed stats. When you eventually reach full adult or if you're already grown, you'll have to spend time recuperating from the negatives.

Of course, if you're just that bad, Starvation and Dehydration can just kill you when your max health and stam disappear. But I think we'd benefit by extending the time period until death by simply turning you into an easier target.

Edit:

Of course, we could always just make it so that the rate Hunger and Thirst drop is also affected by how much you need to Heal and Rest. If you need to heal often because you take dmg often, you'll need to eat more food. If you need to rest often because you run or fight alot, you'll need to drink more water.

[marble canopy]

i know a good handful of people might not agree with me but i think tenos abilities should consume less stamina. also fix up collision, because the only real reason for me saying that above is whenever I play as herbi and fight a utah, they will run into me they teleport 10 feet to the other side of me. They get successful hits and even though it shows them right on me I dont get even one hit. at first I thought that it mightve been a connection issue but then I realized it doesnt happen when I run into or fight other herbis. its as if utahs r playing minecraft in creative LMAO. ive seen other people have the same type of issue but idk

[fallen cape]

more of a suggestion than feedback but i think the carno charge could be somewhat directional like knocking a tenonto over if charged at from the side but not when charged at from the front since its more stable due to it having 4 legs. i dont know if something like that is already planned, but if not i think it would add a bit more strategy and overall realism to carno vs tenonto.

also maybe let the blinding animation play as soon as the person gets hit and let them slowly regain sight as they still have control over their animal and are most likely flailing around aimlessly just trying to hit their target as other animals probably would when blinded by their prey.

[flat lance]

Since hypsi and herra make their home in the jungle, it would make sense hypsi will be one of herra’s primary food sources. For a perk, the more herra hunts hypsi, the herra will build a resistance or reduced affect to hypsi’s spit defense over time.

[bronze sequoia]

Could the compass 🧭 in the game get the letter back so it would make it easier to move around the map?

[icy ferry]

In evrima there are a lot of things wrong , such as the hunger crisis
there arent enough AI to go around or to even find , a dryosaurus AI could feed 1 to 2 full adult utahs , and that would be great , they would just need to catch like 3 dryos an ingame day to feed a pack , but the problem is that there aren't much AI , if the number of AI went up and the place they spawn increased (so that players dont camp one spot to get food) that would solve it for the most part until we get bigger carnivores but by then we'll have AI to feed them , like stegosaurus AI

the other thing is also hunger , i have a few ideas

1. Hunger and thirst in difficult areas
   so when a creature lets say a utah is in an area with minimal food but a lot of water , like the swamps , when he needs to heal or regain some stamina it drains a bit from his hunger and thirst meter , but since there is minimal food , the utah cant afford to be risky because it could starve and not be able to heal itself
   so in areas like this the utah will leech more from his water meter to heal of 1st to 2nd screen of damage but any where 3rd and above you will have to leech from both meters

2. when you are hungry , you can get more food than other's eating the corpse
   let me explain so , lets say we have an almost completely fed rex and a starving rex , the rex on the leasurely side of things takes a bite out of a triceratops , he takes a minimal bite and is satisfied
   the starving rex takes larger bites to get more food than others eating from the body so it can fill up to about half before it slows down and remembers "oh yeah i could choke" but basically , not so hungry animals will take smaller bites , taking less food from a corpse , while starving animals/dinosaurs take larger bites to secure more food faster

[mortal musk]

Reduce cooldown timers for attacks across the board.

[wicked gulch]

Increase Dryosaurus' speed to be slightly faster than utah

[twin pebble]

Not sure if this should be part of balance or general, but I think the limits for packs should be smaller. We already have limited populations on the servers so having mega packs swallows the entire population count and makes it really annoying to play if you're not in one, not to mention the ecosystem takes a hit because no diversity. I think a lot of smaller groups would make for a better dynamic and a better balanced ecosystem. Makes everything more dynamic too. Mega packs makes it impossible for other players to enjoy hunting and interacting with them and we have to rely on AI and that's not what a survival PVP game is meant to focus on. Quite frankly, mega packs ruin the PVP aspect of it. At least on official servers, I think the limit for any size of dinos should be around 6 per group, and lower for stronger dinos, down to 2 for apexes.

[jagged cape]

to expand on this, I think it would help to make it an option to have pack limits as part of your server settings when you host.
so, as an example, if the server hoster set a limit to 5 allos, once you hit the pack limit the game won't allow you to invite any more allos to your group

[lavish tundra]

I don’t know if this is a thing cause we haven’t had any updates about it, but I strongly believe that a carno should knock down another carno when charging.

Also teno’s weight and force against a moving carno should be able to knock them over if they land a tail slam on them (big if cause landing a tail slam on a moving target is hard af). Teno is heavier than carno btw.

[frigid crypt]

Lift up tenonto from being rivals to utahs to being equal rivals to carnos. It should take more than one utah to kill a teno, if a single utah can take a whole herd with ease then tenos will have no escape against a pack of carnos. Right now tenonto is in a place where unless you are well comfortable with tenonto attacks you can maybe survive a single utah on your own. And thats pushing it if you arent a frequent tenonto player. Utahs bite faster, they run faster, turn faster, heal faster, and it takes 3 kicks to the head to actually kill them.
So up something on the Tenonto side, fighting as a Tenonto is very unique, complex, fun, and relies a lot on timing but all that goes to shit when a group of herbies get demolished by a small pack of utahs (or single utah) because they lose stam too fast and cant keep up with the utahs. Tenontos are heavier than carnos so they should be able to at least have an equal chance at winning against a single carno and they shouldn't have to fear utahs as much as they do.

[golden belfry]

I have not found any artificial intelligence of dryusaurus. I don't know if they took it out or not. because to survive as a predator we must have artificial intelligence, because otherwise it would be very difficult for a carnivore to survive.

[bronze sequoia]

Might not be a popular opinion but I think it’s to much for Troodon to have 2 abilities like (venom/Mimicry). Mimicry should be given to another Dino like the Oviraptor or someone else. I don’t like the idea of stacking one Dino with more abilities if the others are stuck with one. Specially when that Dino has a pretty strong ability to begin with like Venom. it would make sense to stack abilities on a Dino like the dryo with Dodge/Burrows because both abilities are not very strong but effective. I guess what I’m trying to explain is that it feels like certain dinosaurs are give multiple/very strong abilities while others are just give one/weak ability. At lease that is what the plan so far is sounding like.

[hollow ridge]

Buff tenos tail slam. Right now there is practicly no reason of doing it. The attack consumes stamina, locks you in place, barely does more damage than a regular hit and its hard to land. Getting hit by a tail slam should be punishing for any utah and could be a good counter for carnos as they will be easier to hit with it.
Edit - They listened

[lavish tundra]

For fall damage, at least make it so you won't break your legs or die from small falls like in legacy, it's just really damn annoying and dinosaurs shouldn't break their legs THAT easily.

I'm aware the fracture system will come in update 4, I'm just saying the devs shouldn't make bone breaks a nuisance to where you break your leg every time you step over a pebble.

[jaunty elk]

because of the nature of a tail slam id like to see either increased damage in the slam itself OR a stun. i mean, the utah just had the entire body weight of a teno (heavier than a carno!!) knocked onto its head. an attack like that should stun the utah for a couple seconds, forcing them to peel themselves back up off the ground and allowing the teno to get another hit or two in before the raptor skitters off again.

[barren kernel]

To prevent players to kill for sport on magy, if players bites it they get poisoned like a dog bite a poisonous toad, unless the species is immune( e.g cerato) or has a immune-perk to be able to bite a magy and eat the meat from a magy (Poison affects hunger, thirst and/or stamina to clarify. Doesn’t need to be equal to venom)

[lavish tundra]

A possible slight blind mechanic? It'd work somewhat similarly to the hypsi spit mechanic, where it'd cover your vision in a red blood or blur. It would discourage players from face tanking fights when getting hit in the head, while making predators more careful of "easy prey" that can fight back before going down. Example: Allo see's a Cerato, gets the jump on it from an ambush. Obviously it'd seem like its a situation that the Cerato is going to be made a chump, but in this scenario. The Cerato fights viscously back. Unrelenting while going out with a fight. The Allo face tanks and lets Cerato have a very large number of hits on his head. The Cerato inevitably falls, but leaving the Allo with an injury for making a mistake.
This change will make "stronger dinos" think more carefully when fighting and consider thinking of engagements differently, as there are long term consequences other than locked hp, healing and fractures. Of course it'd heal within given time, and the chances are low depending on the severity or power of the attacks. Other conditions being that you must at least be under 2nd screen, and suffer a certain number of attacks to your head hitbox for it to possibly apply. Say for another example repeated Tenoto kicks to the skull can render the effect more often than a normal claw attack. If such a mechanic were introduced, it'd be creating new consequences such as reckless play even against a dinosaur with a lower weight class. It'd bring a new dynamic of "watching how and where I'm getting hit".

[bronze sequoia]

I’m changing some parts about my idea with the Magy. I also adding some better pictures that will illustrate what I’m talking about.

1. Magy will have bight colors to display it’s toxicity levels to other dinosaurs. When Magy’s toxicity levels are high the Magy will be very vibrant color. If a magy’s toxicity levels are low then it will appear more dual in color or with zero color.
2. The Magy must eat certain plants in order to get its poison.
3. If a dinosaur bites a Magy that’s toxicity levels are high they will be poisoned and show symptoms of lockjaw and opisthotonus for a certain amount of time. This will leave them vulnerable to attack, starvation, and thirst.
4. If Magy allows itself to become less toxic by not eating the proper plants to obtain that toxicity that will allow most dinosaurs to eat magy without any repercussions or very little repercussions.
5. ceratosaurus will be one of the dinosaurs that will be able to eat Magy when it’s toxicity levels are high and received little to no repercussions.

[feral hedge]

Magy=Giant Skunk. Fart on people, place a status similar to blind and gives a debuff to power. That's the best I can do for this guy besides making it semi aquatic.

[mortal musk]

Increase dryo’s stamina to be substantially more than Utah’s. This is accurate to most predator-prey relationships and allows dryo to use dodge more frequently. The stamina cost for dodge seems too high to effectively use at the moment.

[sick jacinth]

Make the carno chill a little bit in its sitting animation on evirma. Right now it looks like it is having to keep correct posture or else its spine will break.

[stuck wraith]

When Allo comes into evrima, maybe it could have a rear attack like the tenonto has. Like a small tail wack to the face. Nothing that causes seriouse damage, but enough that it deters small predators like utah from attacking from behind.

[feral hedge]

Will Utah be able to reach the same perching heights as Hypsi?

If so, please make these places taller, and Hypsi's jump bigger.

To avoid another Docks.

[fluid kite]

Id like to suggest possibly implimenting Legacy's AI system as a temp fix for carnivores until the AI system is fully functional in evrima. Right now nearly every utah is forced into cannibalism, and if there's a low server population, it's effectively impossible to grow to adult as the current ai is nearly non-existent.

I think the lack of population is a result of the missing food sources for carnivores, not because of the current selectable dino count. If the odds of death are significantly higher as carnivore (Teno is currently stronger and has surplus food sources), people will opt for herbivore, and if there's zero competition agains't herbivores, there's effectively no purpose to the game. Granting carnivores the same fallback food options herbis currently have, ensures higher server pops since carnis won't alt-f4 due to endless starvation/cannibalism death cycles, which in turn snowballs into higher numbers as the folks checking the server list are more willing to join populated servers.

I think update two will somewhat remedy herbi/carni imbalance, as Carnos will overtake/match tenos for pvp viability, but smaller carnivores such as utah and future lower-tier carnis will still remain in the same situation. There's just not enough ai/small dinos populating the server for survival.

Edit* Id like to encourage folks who disagree to submit an alternative solution to the server health/longevity issue. I obviously have a carnivore bias/perspective on this issue.

[keen tree]

Seeing as update 5 is the diets/gore update, maybe we could get compy's with that? I think that they fit perfectly with the theme.

[fierce shale]

Allow tento's to claw during trot

[sacred axle]

Stego takes a LONG time to heal. I'm not sure if it's because I'm growing and my max health is increasing faster than I can heal or if it's because stego's healing is just really bad

[torn solstice]

Stego should be able to swipe pouncing Utahs OFF itself with its tail, rn it cant do anything to get em off.
4 utahs can kill a stego, utahs take 90 mins vs stego taking 5 hours is unfair. Stego is an apex right?
Stego is a slower dino and is forced to fight unlike utahs.

[terse iron]

Carnivore hunger times are ridiculously short, they are not hyperendocrines nor apex

They should have hard to fill stomachs but also have long hunger time, so they actually have time between hunts

[proper saffron]

allow stego to graze till 80%, its a grazer let it do it

[fickle briar]

About above, make it veeery slow if you do make it graze till 80%, stegos will still go for other plants when the diet system comes and it would be nice seeing a big stego herd grazing

[grim zephyr]

Probably a repeated topic on hunger: Is it just me or is the game now a hunger/starving simulator? Barely walk half a mile and urgently need food, the only good thing about legacy was that ai spawned around the player and people could continue exploring, not saying that type of ai spawning is good, even if there was nothing to find and in evrima right now there is just a constant need for food, which is often impossibly hard to find. I guess it'd be either a choice between making the ai scream annoyingly, which I hate, make it spawn closer, which I hate, make more ai, which is stupid, or lower the hunger decrease rate? Which would probably again make something else stupid. Can't suggest nothing, do not know what the game code is capable of and know nothin of what the dev team is going to change. Just general thoughts after playing carno, utah. Herbis on the other hand are ok-ish mainly because there would be nothing else for them to do other than eat and drink.

[full escarp]

Hypsis spitting range is really short, since its so easy for carnivores to get rid of the vision blur and its not like they cant see ANYTHING with it. Please give its spit just a bit more range atleast, with its really short range and having to target the head its impossible to hit anything that isnt really close to you and standing still

[leaden yarrow]

Carnos acceleration should take a little longer than barely a second to reach top speed

[hidden python]

I'm really happy with the resource balancing so far for juvie carno. I've not made it to adult yet but it's really nice to actually have to worry about sustenance on the way to adult instead of eating once and having no incentive to hunt. I'll happily keep myself topped off but I don't want afk growing to be an option for our (current) apex predator. Nice work!

[lavish tundra]

Map sizes and night duration:

I feel that the current version of the map would be great for the past version of the game (Update 1). But now there’s like 5x more people on each server and this extremely short size makes servers with more than 70 people basically unplayable

And also, if the night cycle is a placeholder and it is gonna be reworked in the further updates, why make the night cycle 30 minutes long? In my mind, night should be just a taste of something different while the real new Day/Night is implemented and it should definitely not last for 30 minutes. Probably instead of a 30/30 day/night cycle, a 50/15 cycle would be the best approach to go with in this case.

Imma repost this here cause I don’t know in which channel is it best to post it lmao

[dusky rivet]

The recent change to herbivore hunger 'gain / harvest ' (the amount of food gained from each bite) has made growing and sustaining herbivores significantly more challenging, especially with the constant presence of large carno packs. It takes long periods of time to feed on bushes, and the gain is so small from grazing that you do not seem to be able to eat fast enough to avoid starvation. If the map bounds were larger this probably would be less of an issue, but the smaller size and high density of carnos means that leaving the safety of the forest for food is often a guaranteed death, and starvation is much more punishing. I would suggest either increasing the food 'harvest' amount gained from eating or increasing the map bounds to allow herbivores more options.

[lavish tundra]

Please rebalance the Carnivore hunger. I cannot go 5 minutes without already needing food, I started a carnotaurus and almost a minute in my hunger was already down by a substantial amount. Carno as a juvi can barely take on a Stego, from experience, and AI simply doesn't spawn or is too hard to find. Please either increase AI spawn times, or rebalance hunger. Because I guarantee I would starve trying to grow a Carno.

[slim lion]

I think that the acceleration of an animal is a big part of it feeling large. Larger or clunkier animals should have a longer acceleration in general compared to smaller ones, as inertia acts more heavily on them. It might help with some of the weightlessness people are mentioning, and would fix carno being able to circumnavigate its bad turn.

[feral hedge]

I thought bleed was going to target stamina, only killing players when all stamina was lost?

[safe torrent]

Carno needs some tweaking on hunger time. Over the 5 Hour (not 2.5, definitely longer) grow time, you have to eat such an incredible amount of food. Food that chances are, is already being eaten by larger carnos. If you don't kill and eat everything on sight, you will starve to death before you hit full sub. Grouping with other carnos makes it even worse. Hunger doesn't go down fast, but you need so much food just to keep it from going down that over your lifespan, even if you are quite successful (5 hypsis and 2 juvies or so every 30 minutes) by the time you hit adult you are starving to death. Stegos that are around the same size as you, tough fights, will only give you around half your hunger, and stegos that are smaller, barely give anything. Also, Dryo AI is still non-existant, so that really isn't an option. In the 4 and a bit hours of growing I did as carno, running around the map just trying to find enough food to stay alive, I found exactly 0 Dryos, they aren't there. Seriously, carnos shouldnt be constantly eating just to survive. They aren't hypos!

[fickle wave]

I agree with a lot of the comments here saying that carno should have a higher hunger time! I enjoy the challenge to a certain degree but as it is right now, exploring at all is out of the question since you will literally have to be thinking about food 100% of your time. This also makes grouping up with other carnos borderline impossible, since even one needs so much food and it's better to just eat anything you see. And as others have pointed out - AI spawns are still a bit wonky, which makes the situation so much worse.

[still zephyr]

They aren’t meant to be evenly matched unfortunately Carnos are a superior species if dino in every way, the hierarchy system for dinos in the isle will be balanced out as more dinos are added but with few dinos leaves few food options so utahs will always be on the menu for superior species of dinos

[nova trail]

Carno has to be nerfed on evrima. Its rediculously rapid. And does too much dmg comparison to utah. So y carnos need its speed if they r targeted to hunt stegos? Dinos should be as good as is player not the specie by itself. Otherwise its too unbalanced. Anyways it lookes that devs just made some dinos on its own not carried about the diete and how it should look like. U need a game designer i guess so he could make all the balance stuff unlike it is now. Carno's and utah's hunger should be nerfed by x1.5. And time too death becouse of starvation should be around 30 mins(with 0 food).

[mortal musk]

Maybe lower the saturation of flora at night as it sometimes seems a little neon.

[gaunt finch]

Carno's hunger, especially as a juvi, drains insanely fast; 2 minutes after spawning in it 1/3 way down. Not enough time to find food unless you're insanely lucky.

[fickle briar]

Stegos should be able to eat Grass to more than 20% since they are grazers, when the diet system comes they will still have to eat other stuff anyways, so that should be fine.

[trim river]

balance the dmg juvies do to one another and larger, literally a small spawn carno killed my juvie teno within two hits. i feel it wasn't balanced out like it should be. the whole damage should be balanced out within all the creatures.

[potent chasm]

Also juvi stego one shots all other jyvis I'm pretty sure

[warped ridge]

Stegos should have something to counter utah's pounce

[sonic kettle]

Juvi stego 1 shotting other juvis makes sense because it cant run from anything because its slower than everything

[neon forum]

after growing a stego i think it should be bigger (maybe not bigger but taller?)

[granite copper]

what made Stego fighting fun for me before was that you weren't faster but you could take tighter turns and swing when you cut people off. also you could try and fight your way to a better spot where other animals have less mobility since it had a good rear attack when running. the tail making you stop and turret kinda ruins what was fun for me about Stego fighting. not that the targeted jab isn't cool but it should only do that if your not pressing a movement key. basic swing could be movement key + right click = swing to whatever side camera is facing. if your main defense is on your rear it should be able to do something while moving, even if its lower damage than stationary attack. i thought the point was stop chasing me not ill stop for you

[solar marten]

Scent is too buggy right now.
Trails appear and lead you in dead end hunts for food and water

[lone stirrup]

Tenonto is in a bit of a weird spot with the introduction of the mouth on legs that is Carno. Remembering that the devs wanted its preferred food in the swamp... and taking into account its short legs and powerful tail...
What if Tenonto was simply a pretty quick swimmer? Getting bodied by Carno and outcompeted by Stego, the thing could use some extra versatility.

[lavish tundra]

Hypsi should be faster or same speed as carno. With how tight carno can turn, Hypsi has no way to not be a meal. Even blinding a carno doesn't help because carno is so fast it catches up to you in a couple seconds

[frozen sun]

Testing out carno for the first time. Biggest red flag is the immense hunger drain. While I understand rationalizing it behind "It's fast therefore has a high metabolism", as a carnivore in this game, I should at the very least not be starting out with "do or die" hunger. The largest issues with the hunger drain is that it overly relies on if I can even kill or find something incredibly quickly all the time.

My suggestion/compromise is make carnotaurus more water reliant. If or when food/water affect how quickly you regain stamina, allow the carno to have severe water drain while also making it to where it has severe dehydration penalties making stamina regen a pain if not kept up properly. I feel as if this is a much better alternative as, really, it's not fun at all. Reposting this here because I was told to.

[slim topaz]

Dislike how slow Utahraptor thirst goes up, while Stegosaurus is a straw.

[lavish tundra]

It would be nice if Stegosaurus had a tail swing to both sides when running.

This new defense mechanic is analogue to teno’s kick when running (teno’s tail slam changes to a buck when moving, and stego’s stab turns into a swing when moving too), so when stego runs it swings its tail to both sides like Cama does.

This does less damage than the stab and it’s merely to be able to defend yourself while on the move.

[strong vortex]

Im not a big fan of the bleeding mechanic, Ill do some more testing and better explain what my problem is with separating the bleed-bar from the health-bar. But my biggest issue right now is that you have to roll in mud to close the wound which from a gameplay standpoint is understandable. However the biggest issue is the overreliance of mud and its importance in battle.

Ill do some more play testing but my first suggestion is that laying down also would prevent you from bleeding out but it would not stop the bleed from going down but instead staying at say 10% blood so you can still survive a fight if you are in a area with no mud around. Also you will not have to leave your prey/body to go wallow in mud which will prevent issues later down the line when it comes to rule servers and the ownership of a body.

[dawn tundra]

Teno might be a bit better off with a slightly shorter growth time. At the moment it's the same length as carnos and carno is quite obviously the stronger dinosaur. At the moment it just doesn't seem to have many options to escape or combat the new and improved carno so something to give it a little help may be in order.

[lavish tundra]

If there was a time for the Teno's tail slam to implement a proper stun, it'd be now. Since with the new Carno around, there isn't much at it's disposal to fight back. Just thought it'd be a temporary fix

[misty oar]

Carnos food drain feels a bit high. You barely have to blink after spawn and 25% of your food has vanished. You're basically forced into a constant hunt of killing everything which moves just to stay alive.

[glossy bridge]

I thought about Teno Vs Carno and I think carno should be given a wider turn radius when sprinting like with cheetahs. Cheetah chases impala, impala zig zags to get away. Yesterday I was basically running loops around trees and carnos were still destroying me.

[mortal musk]

Not sure of the correct technique for combat against carno as tenonto, but tenonto feels underwhelming currently in power. I would suggest adding additional damage to its tail slam and/or adding a “stumble” stun when landing the attack on carno or similarly sized dinos. The stun would have the effect of staggering the opponent long enough to land a follow up slam or claw attack.

It seems like tenonto has no option against carno as it cannot run away due to carno’s insane speed, cannot hide due to the increased sound in footsteps, and seems to be at a disadvantage when it comes to a 1 on 1 fight.

It could also be that carno is due for a nerf in power and mobility.

[slim lion]

Carno's primary downfall should be its bad turn radius while running. Otherwise carno just bodies anything that is smaller than it without fail. Carno's speed should require carno to trade away its maneuverability while sprinting so that it doesn't invalidate smaller species that aren't as fast.

[winter ferry]

Make carno have a short delay to stop running since it's such a speed demon

[hybrid plaza]

I see a lot of complaints about carnos but carnos still cannot do shit about Stegos which represent 70% of an entire server population lol. Take away stegos then balance carnos however u like. Stegos have no natural threat right now and can kill anything without a sweat, that's the problem of the game right now.

[mossy kiln]

Increase the loading screen screen or load bushes, trees etc before dinosaurs, I have seen multiple people rage when people use the load time to see others through bushes and use it as an advantage.

[hollow ridge]

Carno in its current state is very overpowered, especially against tenantosaurs as they have no way of defending themselves against a fully adult carno. Either nerf carno or buff tenanto so it can actually fight back against them. Tenanto should rival carnos since they both take around the same time to grow, not just be easy prey. Its tail slam stun has pretty much no effect on carnos as they will simply just get knocked down by their charge instead.

Its honestly ridiculous how easily a carno can kill a tenanto and it really makes you question how they balance tested the carno.

[shrewd marsh]

The baby carno and utah, are WAAYY too fast. They don't seem to have any accelerating if I know right, they just- Blast in light speed. I loved the speeds in legacy, they're so- Perfect. The current run animations are kinda emotionless in EVRIMA, and I miss the little jog sorta of animation the juvi utah used to have.

So, finally, I'm asking for: Slower utah and carno, especially babies, and a bit more alive-ish animations (optional), and acceleration for them. Please, The Isle isn't The Isle without feeling like Legacy version of The Isle.

Have a nice day.

[eager moth]

Once larger carnivores are added, growth times should be lowered, because if carno takes 2.5 hours to grow (I think thats how long it takes atm) no one will play because they won't want to waste that time on a creature that gets bodied by most things, if it's shortened to 1-1.5 hours like it was in legacy it will probably work, I agree with apexes taking ages because they rule the roost but I hope growing won't become a chore

[fast gazelle]

There could be a grapple sort of function for hypsis to jump and climb on trees. It could take multiple tries to get up on a tree properly all the while carnivores would be tracking you down.

[sonic kettle]

Utah has wayyyy too many invincibility frames after it gets kicked off of pounce not allowing you to punish it in any way until it gets up from the animation and is running away. It seems really unfair and it really shouldn't have any at all.

[lavish tundra]

Having a "no moveleft keybug", how can I fix it ? Does anyone else have it ?

[trim river]

perhaps give hypsi a bit more food intake to be able to spit at preds more? i noticed that you can spit about 3-4 times or shorter to get away from a carnivore which the stomach contents go down fast.

[silent glacier]

i feel like the amount of food that dinosaurs are after they die should be increased. as in they just don't have enough meat to fill food (this is mainly smaller stegos, but applys for smaller carnos too). It should be a bigger deal that your dinosaur is dead. it should make more of an impact, especially when your playing up to 5 hours on one creature. With carnis then fighting over these carcasses should be bigger more dramatic events.

[spark stirrup]

Only Balance Changes I think are necessary is

1. Make Carnos hunger not drain quite as fast
2. Make Carnos maneuverability slightly slower, I think it whips around just a little too well
   I think right now the only balancing mishap is between Carno and Teno, as that matchup is a little too in favor of Carno after more testing (feels like a 60/40 Carno favor)
   And Id also say make the hit box on Tenos tail slam a little larger and make the stun time on Carno a little longer.
   I dont think there are many balancing issues right now other than Teno V Carno, which isn't huge but its something to remedy

[dusky rivet]

After some experience with Carno I feel that at the moment it is a bit too strong, not ridiculous but definitely hard to beat. The primary issue seems to be the turn radius; in legacy the carno traded very high speed with poor turn radius. While the turn radius on the carno is definitely lower than the raptor or teno it's still a pretty good turn radius, and since the carno can just stop running, turn, then start again much faster than in legacy it's extremely difficult to shake them even when in deep forest. I think a slight speed decrease and a noteworthy turn radius decrease would make it feel a lot better. Carnos should excel in open fields for short distances, but suffer in dense and trecherous terrain. Currently carnos excel wherever they wish to hunt

[jaunty elk]

jumping off of some other ideas here, i think carnos maneuverability issue can be easily managed by not only making it take longer for a carno to reach top speed, but by making it take longer for a carno to come to a complete stop. this would mean that the carno would skid for longer distances before stopping if it tries to make too tight of a turn, giving the potential prey some time to get ahead before the carno is able to stop and start running again. carno just stops and turns a little too abruptly right now, and realistically, an animal that big and heavy running that fast is going to skid at least several feet if it tries to make a sharp turn.

[fickle briar]

So instead of only eating certain plants/certain dinos to get your dino to grow faster and stronger there should be some actions too, as example sunbathing for Deinosuchus or sharpening your horns on a tree as a Carno like it was shown on its concept. Would add much more to the realism aspect, atleast thats what i think. Keep up the good work!

[timid pelican]

decrease speeds across the board, even if slightly, just to make everything easier to keep tracks of and for combat to feel more weight and fun in general
i beat run, he needs to run faster next time, unlike evrima dinosaurs

[lusty urchin]

Slow all the animals down. We don’t need light speed to travel across a small map. - oh wow Bork u fuck

[sick jacinth]

I feel like hypsies should have sort of an aimbot feature where it locks on to the targets head ONLY if its looking at the head of the target. Its just to hard to run aim stop bc of the animation and then run or possibly 99% of the time get killed.

[swift pebble]

i think the way to fix most of these problems that i have seen is by boosting AI by a big margin, or at least making it fairly consistent. as a result of there be a lack of AI currently carnos have to constantly eat all the time, this usually ends up in them going for things that are easiest to fight which is younger carnos, tenontos, basically anything smaller them which, sucks if your trying to grow anything right now, like why are juvies of all species currently always worse in all aspect then there adult counter parts, adult carnos and utahs can both run down there younger counterparts which leads to consistent cannibalism, which is not fun, all younger stages have to consume much more food weither your a carnivore or herbivore, which from a balancing perspective doesn't work because the carnivores at a younger stage don't get a buff of anything at there smaller stage to get anything, juvie stegos seem to be the only one with a defence mechanism , which is there ability to one shot all other juvies, yet this is still not enough. so yeah fix AI and the problems with the juvie stages for all young stages of the dinos and i believe the other problems will slowly fix themselves.

[open herald]

Nerf Carnos turn radius and maybe even in size. His turn-radius makes him too OP. Utah, Teno, Dryo cant outmaneuver it

[leaden yarrow]

Carnos acceleration is way to short. Carno reaches max speed in almost under a second which it really shouldn’t. And now due to it‘s drifting ability it can work around it‘s bad turn radius because it can just immediately run at top speed after drifting to the side. Juvie carnos should also be slower. Carnos speed should increase with age and start pretty average in terms of running speed. Why is this needed ? Carno‘s currently have nothing to worry about while growing except their hunger that should get fixed and other carnos. Utahs should have an easy time taking down carnos that are under 50% grown. This would add a needed population control as currently there are carnos wherever you go and growing a mid tier carnivore should be a little more challenging than just taking a long time to get to adulthood. Other than that I think stego and hypsi were balanced really well good job!

[fickle moss]

-carno ,utah and small ortitopods have to fast animation. It looks like they are not leaving creatures, but electro toys. Fight looks like arcade game.

• carno is master of all things.
  Some inertia while stopping and turning would be good. It's a big creature. Carno can have realy problems with swimming, it will allow other species to save themselves crossing the rivers.
  Further it would be interesting that everybody should find a balance between escaping both croc and carno.

-better not to make tenonto semi aquatic, but just make carno and utah have great problems with swimming.

• maybe stego should have stronger hunger when adult. So servers would not be overpopulated and over herbs will have advatage over stego in finding food.

[tall sparrow]

The time it takes for carno to reach full speed is WAY too short. Carno is incredibly deadly to small creatures, as it should be. But the acceleration is way too fast for a 2 ton creature that is the fastest thing in the game. Any small animal stands no chance if it sees a carno, since carno can run right up on its ass and maul it. Even if the creature banks and dodges to the side, carno can very easily drift and get right back on its ass. Carno acceleration needs to be nerfed in order for small creatures to properly escape if they happen to be engaged in a hunt with a carno.

[dense robin]

Some thoughts after playing again:

• Tenonto's feeding rate / food gain from eating bushes is WAY too slow. It takes forever. My finger was getting sore from holding the E key for even just 1/3rd of a stomach. If the point was to make Tenonto harder to play, the addition of Carno already covered that.

• Hypsies are the bane of larger herbivores existence. They chase herds and scream their lungs out, but I think the worst culprit is their blinding spit. While a useful defense, I really don't think they need to have the ability to blind other herbivores. Removing their ability to blind other herbivores would make them much less annoying, plus prevent them from helping carnivores with hunts (which has certainly been occurring).

[acoustic ravine]

I love the hupsi and the idea of a small/swift herbi that's defense is running and if need be spitting at and blinding it's attacker.

However there is a BIB issue that it uses up its food. So if is being chased by more than one critter or its attackers are persistent it has to starve itself in order to defend itself.

Instead it should have a separate spit meter. Said meter doesn't have to be very large...enough to spit several in succession (to avoid spamming) and would recharge fairly quickly if not used but if pressed to use it BEFORE it recharged THEN it would drain food.

[lament portal]

Maybe, to make it "balanced" hypsi would need to eat a special type of plant to fill "spit" meter so it doesnt have those big food problems

[lavish tundra]

The Map is to small at the moment. There are Servers with 120 Player Slots I migth be remember that Dondi said one time the wohl new map is for 200 Players. So i Think this little mapchunk we have at the moment is to small.

[red ibex]

Increase teno growth speed, it grows as fast as a carno which really outcompeats tenontos. And by the time a teno is 100% one adult utah and nearly adult one have grown. I wouldnt say make teno grow as fast as utah, but like maybe 15-20 minutes shorter.

[serene vigil]

The ideal carno gameplay fantasy in my opinion is a incredible fast specialized hunter in taking small game, suited for hitting stuff like a truck out of ambushs and imploying hit and run tatics in anything it can't just snap and one shot, while trading maneuverability and face-to-face brawling capabilities. Right now carnos feels very much like a generalist creature, it has the speed but lacks the drawback for it, it has much advantage while fighting directly a tenontosaurus, an animal that's supposed to be able to fend off and confront what it can't run from, right now tenontos can't do both. My suggestion is nerfing carno health pool, maneuverability and base damage a little along with his total size, while giving it a good bleed resistence and giving it a boost in his attacks that increases with acceleration. this would encourage the animal to employ ambush tactics to successfully take down smaller and medium animals alike, and making it exceeds in hit and run would give it a specific game-play pattern that distinguish it from other playables like ceratosaurus, an animal more suited for direct confronts and mauling prey.

[dull wraith]

So many people cry about carnotaurus, and say nothing about stegosaurus. At the moment this is one of the biggest problems of the game which causes lots of other problems. Because stegosaurus kills a Carnotaurus with one shot, it makes no sense to hunt it, so Carnotavers are forced to cannibalize and attack Utahraptors. utharaptor payers are asking for a carnotaurus nerfing but do not realize that soon ceratosaurus will take carnotaurus’ place, and then the allosaurus, will you then be listening to their complaints too? Predators with a lower tier should not hunt for predators with a higher tier this is nonsense. Few people write about making tenontosaurus stronger as it could be easily killed with one strike by a single Utah player. However it would have been much better if tenonto were stronger than Utah and weaker than Carno it would put in a middle range between two.

[acoustic adder]

hypsi needs a buff, hatchling utahs taking down full grown hypsis in a few bites is ridicules

[fallen jolt]

I have two things in mind if it wasn't mantioned before. First of all is eating grass... I think you gain not enough of it. I mean I stand for 10 minutes eating grass with a little stego and it felt like I'm losing almost as mutch as I eat at that point. The second thing is that I think it is to easy for carnivores to track you. I love the way of tracking, but in my opinion it is to mutch foootprints. As a small one you have no chance on a server with a lot of big carnivores.

[oak kernel]

To alter this, I think juvie Utahs need a nerf, not buffing Hypsi. Same goes with all other fresh spawn dinos. They should not be viable the minute you spawn in, make them spawn in the same weight as they would hatch from an egg, around 2 Kg for Utahs, 5 ish for Carno/Teno and maybe 15 - 20 for Stego. This doesn't make them super unviable because their end weight is still the same so you'll quickly become powerful enough to kill Hypsis with ease. Just not the moment you spawn in.

Edit: Nerf their damage too.

[hollow ridge]

Envirma just feels like a dinosaur mayhem as of now.

Carnivores have to constantly search for food due to insanely low hunger time which leads them to kill praticly anything on sight. It is really stressful grow a carnivore right now as you have to constantly scavenge for food. Due to how small the map is its not that hard to find food however. Carnivores you can rarely engage in a fight without getting interfeered by other dinos. Kills are also very unrewarding as nearly no dino has enough food to fill your hunger completely.
The map should be scaled up, hunger time needs to be longer for all dinos and kills should reward a LOT more food. Currently you have you fill your hunger as a carnivore up to 6 times before you hit adult, which is far to much and should be lowered to 1-3 times depending on the dino.

This makes encounters more engaging and interresting as its not too common to see another dinosaur. It wont effect how hard it is to get food as you dont need to eat as often and kills are a lot more rewarding. It also allows for proper fights to take place. For example 4 utahs can fight a stego without getting interfeered by some random carno.

[muted vortex]

Simply put, carcasses/kills should be the new POIs. Allow kills to provide more food and persist longer. Diminish the threat of death by starvation and instead, emphasize starvation causing debuffs.

This way, we have time to hunt, time to choose advantageous opportunities to engage prey and once we have our hard fought meal, we feel inclined to stay close to it, even though we know it will inevitably draw other predators to it and you.

Do you stay once full, do you fight off contenders? Sharing isn’t very desirable because the hunger drain is still an issue. You might not be overly concerned about starving to death in the short term, but the debuffs from starvation will make life hard...the next hunt will be harder, the next opponent more difficult.

[lavish tundra]

Daylight lasts WAY too little and night lasts too long. Currently I believe the day/night cycle is 30/30 minutes, but **I strongly believe that daytime should last for about 45-50 minutes and night maybe 20-25 minutes. **

The main reasoning behind this suggestion is that nighttime is a placeholder and it is definitely not done, and that means, in consequence, that it is not as beautiful and visually pleasing as it’s meant to be in the future (actually if I’m being honest the current night lighting is my least favorite lighting in game right now). Currently nighttime was only implemented for us to have something else besides just super bright day lighting, so that’s what night should be: a little taste of different light and color and not lasting the same time as day does.

[summer kestrel]

I noticed a lot of people mentioning the Carno’s ability to stop on a dime and that it’s not quite there. I also loved how InfantomFinn, Jolly-TuckRex, and Karmataurus mentioned it, but instead of completely removing the ability to stop on a dime, keep it, yet when you try to stop like that you run a dangerous risk of skidding, flipping out and falling, causing injury to yourself (Ex. Breaking a leg, Disorientation, or even Visual/Audial impairments similar to experiencing concussions) If you want to slow down in order to turn, just stop pressing shift and you’ll slow down manually
I think the idea of a possible punishment like that gives people choices. Sure, you can try to come to a flying stop, but is it worth the risk? You might just end up hurting yourself instead
Edit: I thought this was a good idea as well mainly for the fact that if a carno come upon a cliff face chasing prey, and manually slowing down isn't fast enough to avoid the edge, you can make your turn at maxspeed to roll away from the edge, with risk of lesser injury than falling
-I'm not saying DON'T nerf Carno's turn, It does need to be nerfed, but I also feel like if a carno wants to try to turn at max speed, that's their choice and it comes with it's fair level of risks /dangers, yet it can also help a player avoid an unexpected danger as well with lesser consequences Ex. Fight with a herbivore, it can serve as a last ditch effort if you need to bail- stego comes out of no where and the options are 1.) Get impaled or 2.) Risk the leg break/other negative affect and avoid getting impaled
-Scale the damage too; making a turn at max speed would be very dangerous, thus a high chance of injury with more risks (Perhaps it's certainly a broke leg), but if you try to make a turn at say mid level speed, your chances of injury and misfortune are lower, BUT still present (A lower chance for legbreak, BUT if you crash, there will be disorientation, etc)

[civic prawn]

carnos starve way way WAAAY to fast right now. At least the young ones. It takes you like 1 minute after spawn to loose 15 to 20 % of your food. Absolutely not fun to play with numbers like that. You can grow to about 10% before you starve. Especially with how hard it is to find AI and how useless carno juvies are in combat or escape that needs to be buffed, at least a little.

[compact fjord]

It doesn’t feel like there’s much leniency/time to react before you eat too much, if you’re trying to fill up before going elsewhere

[nova trail]

Speakin about carno/utah balance: 3 carnos group limit and 6 for utahs. Thats unbalanced. 1 carno can ezly fight agains 5 utahs. So then it should be 20 member limit for utahs. But i would say 12 utahs is fine But carno group limit should be 2 members then, and stegos needs to be neurfed for dmg so carnos could do something to then. Now evrima looks as a big unbalanced stuff with random dinos Just for being in the game.

[brave galleon]

I'm tired of people talking about nerfing. I feel like nerfing could bring more problems to the table in the future rather than fixing problems. i don't think anyone realizes that Carno in legacy is garbage and i almost always played as carno in legacy. it felt so good to finally have carno be decent now, hell it's actually really good. (despite it being under shadowed by stego) anyways, i digress. like i said i thinking nerfing could be worse for the game because the second a new dino comes out it will probably unbalance the whole game and make people go on a rampage about nerfing dinos that are actually meant to be good (like carno). so instead of nerfing, let's start buffing the lower tier dinos, like tenanto. like give tenanto do moer damage for it's secondary attack so if there are any dumb predators that felt like going behind them, they'll get punished. or maybe just buff tenantos speed a bit. maybe not enough to out run it but just enough to where they actually have enough time to situate themselves and get ready to do their said buffed secondary attack and raptors, give them a slight damage buff or something. i mainly got this idea of not nerfing current characters from smash brothers. if some of you are aware the devs of smash are done nerfing good characters and are instead buffing bad characters and fixing whatever bugs need to be fixed. i find this model of game progression awesome because it not only prevents the devs from making their main issues being nerfing good characters, they can focus on new content while addressing some issues with the slight buffing of some bad characters. currently the bad "characters" right now are tenanto and raptors from the sound of it so instead of nerfing stego or carno, start buffing the now lower tier dinos so they have a chance at the new meta (cuz right now the new meta is stego, believe it or not)

[hollow ridge]

At first glance, carno might seem overpowered towards utahs, but after playing with 5 other utahs in a VC i learnt that they arent. Utah can easily take down carnos as long as they are coordinated and 2 pounce it at the same time. When a carno has 2 utahs on it and it cant knock them off it is pretty much over for it.

[snow tusk]

Reduce all animals speed since the animals all look like they are sliding on the ground and the speed seems to just cause balance problems

Reduce all animals stamina overall, rn you have so much stamina both trot and walking have mostly become useless. You should promote people using these instead of constantly running around and not using their other two movement options

For carno specifically make the time to reach full speed be longer, the fact it can just drift then accelerate to max speed almost instantly makes it very difficult to escape when the animal is meant to not be such a difficult thing to outmenuvre

For stego I feel that instead of a peck it should get a little front kick and/or stomp, a bite attack on stego just looks a bit ridiculous imo (trample would also fill the need for the peck helping against smalls well too)

Also lower utah pounce damage since two utahs being able to kill a stego using pounce is a bit mad (as a way around this maybe add a way to do more damage while pouncing at the cost of more stamina, such as scratching your toes into the animals side)

Tenonto also seemed to get changes in speed and turn rate? Idk why these changes were made but I feel like the speed increase can go but the turn rate one can stay (to help with carnos during their current reign over the island)

[neon forum]

Just to add onto the stego suggestion we should either remove certain dmg numbers from Utah pounce, or just give more health to stego

[fast gazelle]

I also am not sure if this is really adding anything, but I feel like giving a hint on how to get a Utah off that is pouncing on you would at least be helpful? If anything, I would say more hints on combat, 'cause new players could get frustrated at not knowing how things function and have to ask in chat, and then that would make their dinosaur make noises and give away their spot. Speaking from a bit of experience, I lost a Carno to Utahs because they pounced on me and I didn't know what to do.

[mortal musk]

Remove invincibility frames for Utah getting up from tail slam or from getting bucked from pounce.

Also reduce the time it takes for Utah get get back up to make it punishable.

[slim lion]

Take utah's invincibility frames and give them to dryo's dodge instead. Dryo shouldn't be unable to use its dodge just because it wasn't made to go far enough

[lavish tundra]

Can you increase hypsi spite hitbox? Right now it’s really hard to aim and it can’t help you while escaping, just to waste food in a pursuit. I feel that it should spread with the distance or at least have a way larger hitbox instead of a super thin line

[urban briar]

I 2nd this. Would also be helpful if grass didn't get in the way as much.

And, with how fast all the dinos are, it's hard to keep up with how quickly they can move.

I've only been able to get spit attacks off if I'm in a road so my view isn't impeded by grass or foliage, or have the element of surprise.

[novel sail]

Fresh out of the egg, I do not believe hatchling dinos should be as fast as they are right now. Hatchlings are quite able to run and defend themselves if need be.

To be perfectly honest, to call these tiny dinosaurs hatchlings would be a stretch. Hatchlings are uncoordinated and helpless, more like what how Legacy hatchlings behaved. I feel it would be better to call the first stage of Survival-spawned dinosaurs 'younglings', since these babies are not defenseless infants. They're very young children with boundless energy and fully capable of keeping up with adults, especially carno babies.

I am not saying we should make our starting dinosaurs helpless; I am saying there should be a clear age and survivability gap from dinosaurs who hatch straight out of the egg and dinosaurs who drop out from the helicopters.

[lavish tundra]

Tenontosaurus, Carnotaurus and Utahraptor population control:

In nature there is a perfect balance between biomass and the trophic level. So if you are a primary consumer like rabbits you will have like 20x more offspring than an apex predator like a mountain lion.

In game that balance is achieved by having different growth times; apexes like Spino have way more hours of growth time than its small herbivore counterparts like Maia.

Before update 2, Teno was pretty strong and it needed a long growth time for it not to overpopulate the map, but now with this new update it is further down in the food chain because a natural predator for teno has been added to the game (Carno). Therefore, the logical thing would be decreasing its growth tome from 120 min to 90-100 min for its population to get back up.

And let me be clear, this wouldn’t just help with teno populations, this would also help with the starving populations of utahs and carnos

[regal condor]

Could there be an easier way for the Hypsi to climb a tree rather than jump causing it to be exposed multiple times? Maybe something that works like eating and drinking, while using a chunk of stamina on the way up, so that they can't climb ridiculously high or anything. And possibly make it a bit easier to stay up in the tree if we alternate or rotate, instead of falling through the tree.

[mortal musk]

Give dryo a massive stamina pool and slight speed boost to increase survivability and get more people playing them.

[iron nebula]

For carno:

As of right now carnos are to OP. they can reach their highest speed in under one second and have incredible drift too. It makes it impossible for anything smaller than a carno to survive if it is seen by one. a carno being able to accelerate to max speed and then stopping to drift and go back to running at max speed makes it impossible to outmaneuver.

For Utah:

Lower the damage a Utah pounce does. A pair of utahs should not be able to take down a stego by just pouncing on it. Also get rid of the utahs invincibility frames, they are way to long and it allows a Utah to get away after pouncing relatively damage free.

For hypsi:

Maybe add an aimbot type thing where it focuses on the head for a brief second when you try to spit.

For baby carnies:

Baby utahs and carnos are way more powerful than they should be. A fresh baby Utah can take down a full adult hypsi in a few bites and is incredibly fast, while a carno baby can take an adult hypsi in 3 bites. Make the bite weaker for both baby carno and Utah and decrease the speed for Utah babies.

About the map:

I don’t think that it needs to be bigger since it already is pretty big. I think that there should be more water sources around since going to areas where there isn’t water is going to kill you of dehydration. Also, since there are barely any water sources most people are bunched up mostly around swamps which makes it harder for smalls to grow. Especially since spiro is supposed to hold 200 players, the map should have more water sources in places so people can spread out and actually survive.

[steady gull]

make the utahs heal faster rn they heal super slow and thats dumb because they already have little hp

[jaunty elk]

make hypsi give a bit more meat? even for a fresh spawn carnivore a hypsi fills up next to nothing- i feel like it should be worth more than a couple of bites, and i feel like the amount of food it gives depending on your size should scale a little bit better.

[golden belfry]

They could bring two types of health into play. One, the health that we all know, that when they attack you, you lose health, or when you bleed or fall from a high place. and two, an internal health. I mean, this health would be like the genes and if the dinosaur is healthy. this new health could be called health two. I will give an example of health two. For example, if the dinosaur eats well, takes care of itself and if it protects itself from the attacks of other dinosaurs, it could be that when it grows up it can be a healthy dinosaur with very good genes, to procreate and pass on its genes. , their offspring and those species with these genes that can procreate and that the density can be stronger, faster and have more pocivilidad to procreate and that their genes can help the survival of the species. But that depends on the genes, I mean the health called health two. the game would be more realistic, and that is not only realistic, but also the purpose of survival. another example. You are a pachicepalosaurus and you are there, everything is fine and you survived well and you reached the adult stage. And now your destiny is to find a partner, or to survive as long as possible to reach the stage of old age. you decide if you procreate and pass your genes on to the next generation, or if you continue to survive until you die of old age. Let's say you procreated, your genes are useful, and you survived well. now their babies could be better, and they are faster and
stronger and healthier.

[lavish tundra]

Can you give invincibility(not receiving any damage) for dryo making dodge? Right now that movement feels pointless because its like running to one side, but you waste more stamina and you can anyway be pounced or charged while doing it. Also it feels somewhat empty because it doesnt have something special, is like utah dodge attack but with no damage.

[wraith tusk]

Basically if you're a grown stego, you're not touched.

If you're a grown carno, 99/100 times you are killing everything in sight. Excluding the grown stegos.

The problem I find is the lack of escape for utahs and tenatos from carnos. Carnos are the apex predator, and they are killing the juvis and subs faster than the ecosystem can grow these species into proper herds and packs. Tenatos are almost none existent. I recommend decreasing the growth time or buffing them to be able to handle 2-3 carnos in a herd.
For utahs I would make their top speed similar to carno. (Meaning carno's charge is what makes them capable of catching utahs) Utahs only defense is to run to cover or jump the carnos as they charge. At the current stage, utahs are incapable of gaining a foothold in the ecosystem.

Granted, as more species and map is added, the ecosystem will have less saturation of "apexes" in the ecosystem over time.. But the mid-tier dinos aren't worth the time right now.

[lunar osprey]

Hypsi spit as of right now is not very useful and its more effective to just focus on juking and running away. An idea to maybe make it more viable of an option of escape could be allowing it to charge up the spit. An uncharged spit would be the same exact thing as it is now. Holding the spit button will turn the marker into a more cone like shape giving it more area to actually hit the target ( maybe charging the spit increases the amount of time blinded???) The more you charge up the spit the more hunger it will drain. A visual of how much hunger the spit will be draining could be put on the hunger bar in the bottom. imo spit right now is just to troll herbis as its to hard to aim at something chasing you and even if you do land it they can still bite you. Making it easier to hit on targets could make it a little better for hypsis survival.

[uneven tree]

Carno is def in need of some changes. They turn too well, stop too well and accelerate too well. Stopping fast I can at least get because of how stopping in general works now, but carno should take a much longer time to build up speed. In legacy, despite being slower a galli could survive a carno by juking them. That would be much harder now, hypsis and dryos are incredibly easy to catch (even with dryo's dodge!).

Carno should take at least several seconds to get up to full speed. It's initial sprint might still be fast in comparison to its trot, but it needs time to reach full on sprint. It should have incredibly, incredibly poor turn while at top speed too, needing to slow back down to a trot/walk to turn. This would encourage hit and run far more, as opposed to the facetanking carnos seem quite find of when fighting utahs or tenos currently.

Plus, stat adjustment would help too. Lower the health; if carno pulls off hit and runs well it doesn't need high health anyway. Having high health promotes more of a tank gameplay.

[frank mauve]

Utah needs a nerf. Its so strong if u know how to play it and can hunt everything (even stego with only 3-4 utahs). In my Opinion only Pounce makes utah so strong. The rest of it is perfectly fine. So nerfing Pounce would be good for the next hotfix

[granite meteor]

I want to add to the chorus saying all dinosaurs need to be slower. Utahs felt fast in the first release and it was much faster than legacy’s Utah.

Now the Utah is a joke. Carnos blow past it and Hypsi and Dryo are pretty quick too. The baby Carnotaurus speed nerf was a good step, but all of these animals except the small herbs need an equal nerf to their speed. It looks bad, and the quality of combat suffers as a result of this speed.

[lavish tundra]

With Carno's turn being reduced and Teno's increased efficiency with it's tail slam balancing things out.
I suggest reducing the growth times for the Teno to be within the middle-ground of a Utah and Carno.
The Teno's growth time is identical to the Carno's, which is counter intuitive for the Herbi counterpart. Because Teno and Carno are clearly not equals. With a reworked Cerato on the horizon as well with a similar growth time. The Teno cannot compete with the mid tier roster without numbers. Make it's growth time more in line with it's place in the ecosystem. It would increase Teno's population within the map and create more incentive for players.

[hollow ridge]

Tenanto vs Carno still needs finer adjusting.
Even though you buffed tenanto it is still undepowered. Carnos are still way to agile and can easily bait and doge the tenanto tail slam and then go in for a bite. Tenantos bite and claw attack is a bit too weak and the carno can simply just trade hits with it that way. Its so stupid that a carno is agile enough to bait out tail slams and then turn right around and bite.

[misty oar]

With the new expanded map, drastically increase the size of carnivore stomachs. Juvie carnis are starving constantly simply because there is no food around. Carnis should have large stomachs which take a lot to fill, but then last a long time as well so they're not having to kill 24/7.

[placid eagle]

what jenkens said, because its just way too important for gameplay

[full lantern]

Thank you for nerfing Juvie carnos speed! however make sure that hunger doesnt drain so fast.

[red ibex]

Decrease teno growth time to like 100 minutes, to let it stand up to carno's (more and more higher tier carnivores will be added, and if teno is this weak already to carnos it will be completely defenseless against an allo or stronger), decrease carnos speed ramp, it reaches the max speed in i think 1 or 1.5 seconds? Something extremely low like that, and it makes carno a bit too forgiving. As for carnivores as well, decrease their hunger drain, its so fast juveniles are essentially forced to go to the swamps. Cause of the fact everyone is there, and this often causes them to die from larger carnos killing the endless supply of juvi's being basically forced to go there. Last thing id suggest is making spawn locations more diverse, they were fine before update 2 but now it either feels like or it genuinely just is that you spawn in a tiny few amount of set locations. Spawn killing is really easy, since you can just type down the cordinates, find water, fill up and then kill people who happen to spawn there.

[bleak salmon]

Allow herbis to smell while running, it isnt fair that they cant smell while moving since they still have noses. Maybe make it last less time than standing still or something.

[hollow crane]

Please can teno and hyspi have more stam and faster recovery time also their hunger and water needs to go down way slower as herbs get a lot of water from food and this needs to be accounted for. Juvi herbs are starving out as theres not enought food or water around and they cant get stam up fast enough to beat the drain effect. Meat eaters right now are killing most herbs in 3 bites where as it should be a better chance on the herb I mean lions only make 1 out of 10 hunts successful as pray out stams them or gives them a good kick/shakes them off. Hunters need to use stalking and other ways to hunt not just walk up and bite constantly. or rear riding. Also hysp cant get in to trees very well defo needs fixing

[open herald]

I think that got already said alot but please let stego really be a grazer. He is not made for traveling alot and finding bushes. Let grazing fill up his food by like 70% or smth

[civic prawn]

fix stamina regeneration. As it stands it is way to slow since the latest hotfix. If you have to rest for 10 min after 5 minutes of running the game becomes complete anti-fun. How am I supposed to search this big map for food like this? So please, fix this ASAP, like in a hotfix, not in the next big update.
If you want to keep this stamina regeneration you either have to change lower hungerdrain a lot or about tripple the trot speed of carnivores....

[lapis charm]

tenontos should gef buffed becaus u can't defend ur self for shit agaisnt a carno. i feel like the tail swipe since it so hard to hit should stun even adults or do more dmg (tho i could be wrong/just bad at teno)

[lavish tundra]

I'm going to hop on the bandwagon and say that the speed Utahs have is absolutely absurd. It does not need to be that fast. It wasn't fast or nearly as fast as the carno, nor a dryo. It was more so in the middle. It feels super weird especially for how heavy it is, at least to me. Nerf it's speed a little, and it's pounce attack. It's okay for Utah to be a bit slower it's maneuverability, pounce are mainly what make it deadly. It'd be speed as well, but not the super speed that we have right now.

[misty oar]

I think stam needed limiting, but not the regen. It would be nicer if the stam regen was much higher than it is now, but total sprint times were lower. Meaning that you have to plan your ambushes and hunts rather than just beelining across the map at your target. Limiting the regen this much instead of the total sprint stam just means that you have to go AFK while waiting for it to come back.

[lavish tundra]

Can you buff stamina regeneration in all creatures? i was playing with hypsi and tenonto and when i had to regen stamina it filled up really slow, i think i spend more time resting than sprinting as teno to regen it

[mortal musk]

Please increase stamina regeneration for Tenonto as well as adjust the claw attack to work while trotting

[jovial ermine]

Adding my voice in regards to the stamina regen rate - waiting several minutes is not only dangerous ingame, it is also not good gameplay

[strong vortex]

will we see a hotfix to the stamina bug its making me not wanna play anything right now 😦

[cobalt adder]

this might have been addressed in the hot fix however I feel like food values need to be increased across the board, hypsi barely feed even a juvie dino and juvenile stego looks a lot beefier then the food value it has

[jagged isle]

eco system : (

[frank folio]

Incerease bush spawn and decrese food drop, actually is find food simulator🙏

[dense robin]

Herbivores should, yes, need to eat frequently. HOWEVER, food needs to be WAY more abundant than it is right now to make this viable. IRL, herbivores spend pretty much all day eating, but most large herbivores are grazers and live pretty exclusively on grass. Make this reality in-game, and make it so that you don't have to keep holding E to eat or graze (to give our poor fingers a break).

EDIT BC OF THE 5hr SLOWMODE TIMER:

I was GOING to include discussion regarding Carnivore hunger drain / body issues, as well, so here it is...

Carnivores should need to eat WAY less than they currently do. IRL, Carnivores need to make one or two large kills per week, depending on group size. Currently, yes you can starve yourself and survive maybe for one in-game day before needing to hunt as a fresh spawn... but this is ridiculous considering outside of other fresh spawns, there is nothing to hunt. You HAVE to go to the swamp to scavenge and hope nothing can catch you while you do. Bodies seem to only last one in-game day, and despawn afterwards, so you can't really sit and guard your hard-earned kill and live off of that. Food gain also doesn't scale with the size of dino, with juvie / hypsie bodies giving barely any food to a juvie carni, around the same body size. Heck, if an adult Carno kills an adult Carno, the body should feed them for at least two in-game days. It doesn't do this.

TL;DR - The ecosystem is really badly balanced right now, due to many factors -- but the fact that both herbivores AND carnivores need to scavenge for food constantly, and can't sit in an area for very long once they DO find it, isn't helping.

[daring ledge]

herbivores should be able to smell while walking, its odd that they must stop entirely to smell, it most likely wont make a difference combat wise or in the ability to evade predators, but it helps to find food when you are on the move.

[worthy hinge]

You could give the sniffing while moving a smaller range than stand still while smelling.

[slim lion]

Teno still really needs to have its growth shortened, because carno still dominates it. Baby teno has absolutely no options against a carno, even swimming doesn't help. Teno's currently fodder for too long to have this long of a growth rate.

[dapper wyvern]

Stamina regen should depend on your conditions (hunger,thirst)
The more you are in a good condition the more you can regen quickly

[novel sail]

I think everybody's stamina regen got a huge ninja debuff when it wasn't supposed to. Can you QA beans confirm whether it was intentional or not with a with a Y or N?

I understand if stamina regen were to be nerfed when we had the smaller map, but since we have the full map now, the fast stamina regen would have been be justified and did not need changing, if any, maybe the slightest. If anything, give us dinosaurs more stamina if we're going to have our regen nerfed, or please fix the stamina regen in a hotfix.

[muted vortex]

Maybe bleed status should impact sprint speed and duration. For instance, having your blood meter at 50% might result in a 75% cap on sprint speed and duration(1.3x stamina consumption). Below 33% blood meter, you sprint speed is capped at 66%, your stamina consumption increased by 1.5x and your attacks are debuffed to 75%.

This way, huge bleed wounds aren’t pointless...you can’t just sprint off at 100% effectiveness in order to break contact and extend away to find a safe place to wallow.

[twin wind]

The only way an adult teno can survive right now is be a hippo and live in the middle of a swamp, otherwise its immediate death on sight. Herbivores in general should have shorter growth.

[cloud otter]

add more water sources to the map and bring back the old stam system

[jaunty elk]

carno still stops too quickly i feel like, especially when disengaging from a charge. if a carno charges and misses their target, they should skid several feet to a stop, rather than being able to stop and turn near instantly; it's a huge animal with a lot of intertia. for an example of what i mean, look at how far this horse skids after running full speed down a track. carno needs to skid more like this after a running charge.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPiMtfVcZww

[opal hollow]

all imma say is look at the horses legs then look at a carnos legs then you will know

[brisk grove]

dryos since their only special ability is their dodge, should have iframes and should take a good chunk of stamina so it balanced out. Just because a dinosaur has a low growth time doesn’t mean it should be unviable.

[crude osprey]

Nice FIX when you stealth nerf one of the weakest dinos on evrima. Hypsis are one shot by everything, and are slower then anything that wants to eat them. Their spit is pointless when something attacking you is going super-sonic speed and you're slower then them, especially when they are incredibly good at maneuvering. So why would you make their super-jump cost MOST OF THEIR STAMINA? You can jump twice on a full bar before its gone. Jumping onto the incredibly small platform on a tree is hard enough, much less trying to use jump to evade attackers.

[shy kite]

For carnivores, I’m not sure for herbis, we should get a boost in stam regen, just because I feel like we starve before we can find food. Just because our stam takes so long to regen and it makes covering ground difficult when searching for elusive prey and carcasses.

[lavish tundra]

Carno is too drift at the moment. It accelerates too well, stops too well and turns too well, theres no chance to evade it and if you arent an adult stego and an adult carno finds you, you are dead in the mayority of the cases. When changing direction too fast, i think that instead of stopping there and make a turn in place, it should slide a lot of distance and then turn, or turn while sliding. Because come on, that thing weights like a van and probably moves at the same speed, how can it turn and brake with that perfection? Or how can reach its max speed in 1 second?

[sand oak]

A carno should skid several feet further than it does currently ingame. It has a ton of inertia considering the speed it would be running at and wouldn't be able to quickly turn without skidding several feet then doing so. And carnivores for the most part in real life have learned to live off carcasses for days. Look at most reptiles for example. Give a red tailed boa a good sized meal fit for its size, like a large rabbit or even a young deer, and it likely won't eat again for several weeks.

Herbivores on the other hand, aren't frail creatures that'll give up without a fight. Wolves have to try and take down a 500-730 lb creature (elk) without getting killed, or a 440-1500 lb creature (moose) without also being killed. A herbivore of those sizes could kick a wolf in the ribs and severely harm or kill it, or instantly kill it with a kick to the head or with the antlers. I can understand a herbivore in the game like dryo not being too threatening, but tenonto not being too threatening to a carno? Next you'll tell me Galli has a weak kick with those muscular legs.

And herbivores should get a scent while walking, even if it's short. how else would migration events happen without too many deaths from starvations or cause someone stood still too long? And both stego and tenonto seem to both be built to be more of grazers than ones to go find bushes, considering most herbivores. Yes I can see the bushes and certain other plants as balancing for their diet, but they'd mostly be grazers. Dryos/Hypsi maybe more picky. But this is all just my opinion.

[tired locust]

https://imgur.com/DH4OSFZ Here is an Infographic I made about Adjusting Parasaurolophus for its upcoming return in EVRIMA. I put a lot of research and effort into it. I hope you enjoy it!

[real edge]

I might sound like a baby whining, but I'd like all growth times to be shorter. I'm probably never gonna play apex since I can't spend 10 hours growing a single animal, and I think I'm not the only one. Since as the game progresses, there is going to be more and more ways to die early, I feel like this wouldn't completely ruin the game if growth times were somewhat shorter.

[round violet]

This is just a small thing, but I have noticed that Stego's fall resistance is on par with Legacy's, which is sad and murderous, so I think it could be just a little better, as right now if you walk through a jungle and there's a hidden, tiny dip, and you walk over it, you take a good chunk of damage when it should have been nothing. I feel like it just needs to be a bit more lenient

[open herald]

My Balance-Feedback on the new Update:
-Teno growthtime is too long for its current position in the eco-system

• Dryo's secondary ability costs too much stam and needs to be more agile. Escaping without that ability is much easier and does not end in dying
• Stego should be able to fill up his food by grazing around like 70%
• Food-Drop in general especially for carno is just insane. Bigger food-capacity would be cool so that you dont need to Hunt every second
• currently i never saw a player-dryo since the Update, something needs to be done to have a good reason to play him (maybe burrowing)
• Utah is a little bit too fast, even for the animations, simply looks unnatural
• You should regen more stamina by walking or troting, it takes ages to fill up
  (In general you did an amazing job with the update)

[lavish tundra]

Hitboxes are so messy for Carno rn, Even with the changes to its turn. I'm getting hit from them when I'm obviously a few feet away from its mouth. Very reminiscent of the Legacy hitboxes.

[leaden yarrow]

Carnos acceleration should take a lot longer. Carno reaches it‘s Max speed in under a Second currently. Carno should at least take 2-3 seconds to reach it‘s top speed. This is needed because due to it‘s drift ability it can turn instantly and immediately start chasing after it‘s prey without having to really gain speed first

[lavish tundra]

Buff tenontosaurus so it is able to fend of one or two carnos being alone. I have been playing tenonto many hours in evrima and I know how to control it, but since update two, all my tenos(2 adults and a juvie atm) die because of carnos. Balance is simple, if you find another creature and you die, it should be your own fault. If a utah finds a stego, stego has fairness in the fight because it is way stronger, but utah also has fairness because it can escape easily. Teno cant flee from carnos or fight them. They can perfectly chase you through the forest and they can perfectly kill an adult teno in 5-6 bites. Carno is supposed to hunt small stuff, like utahs,dryos,hypsis,gallis... And maybe with a group or being very skilled, things of its own size, because carnotaurus wasn’t prepared to solo things of its size, even something like Ceratosaurus might be hard to take as carnotaurus, and it would be balanced, because carno can outrun it. So we have two options: nerf carnotaurus damage and maneuverability, or buff tenontosaurus so it’s able to fight back

[shrewd marsh]

Many people talk about carno, so am I. This is an followup to my last feedback (slowing down baby carno, in game now!) and I have noticed, carno has to have a longer skid. Like other people said. Carno is rather overpowered right now, oh no the turn radius, carno can basically kill anything quickly now with it's turn radius, like, "pop" and carno is already miles away in the other direction. Also, the acceleration and such. Too overpowered, I think carno must be fixed from that.

[lavish tundra]

There should be something that a Dino can do against the Utha pounce....and I dont mean running in to the water. Something like ram against trees or so.

[tepid pecan]

Make the Magy a good swimer

[weary raft]

like us a tree or large boulder to scrape a utah off you? that be cool beans!

[fast gazelle]

Adding to that, maybe depending on the type of dinosaur that's being pounced on/where the Utah is, a body slam could work? Mostly for those who don't have an immediate way to run into rocks and trees and are in the middle of the field. Bucking could work too? Again, depends on who is being pounced on.

[void robin]

Imo utah is just the right amount of agile, but too fast in just regular speed. RN it's barely an issue to outmaneuver and outspeed anything

[remote skiff]

last patch was hard on utah the stamina regen nerf is too much if you ask me and it takes so long to regen

[slim cairn]

the stamina regen is really slow i think its needs a buff, because the map is really big and we need to run to find food and water, but we cant do that with this stamina regen, its so slow that is really dificult you survive as carnivore because you cant run so long and regen quick to make an attack ou reach in other local, and that makes no sense in a big map.

[tardy crypt]

I personally feel like the group limits are hurting servers. I think the servers themselves should be able to set rules on group limits based on the type of server they are running. Especially since right now Stego is so overpowered and they can have 4 in a group and carno can only have 3, meanwhile Utah can have I think 6? and 4 utah can pounce a stego and kill it while avoiding the tail while the carnos can not with the wide range of the stego tail.

There is a lack of balance in the group limits and on servers that try to support realism, it's hard to do this when you can't have a breeding pair with more than one offspring in a group (for carno) .

I just feel the groups should be managed by servers. Maybe a max global cap to save server run status but individual group numbers should be wiped.

[warped ridge]

Stamina regeneration should be faster. It takes way too long at the moment.

[tired locust]

https://i.imgur.com/1N4dr1q.jpg Here is the next entry in my infographic series: "EVRIMA highlights"! I put a lot of research into this and I hope you all enjoy reading it! (For those who are unaware the first one was on Parasaurolophus adjusting to EVRIMA)

[daring ledge]

could we possibly get aiming for utah pounce like how hypsi has aim? its hard enough when you have lag and bad graphics. if not, thanks for considering ^^

(edit) we could also have it be toggled in settings for both hypsi and utah incase people don't want or need it, just so there's more options

[earnest needle]

tenontosaurus is too easy to get to exhaustion and it stays in it for too long aswell. it at least needs a better stam recovery imo

[slim topaz]

My first carno playthrough since the hotfix has been going incredibly well on a 30 pop server.

Before, when you had an empty stomach, you died almost instantly. Now because of the recent changes with stat regen and decay, I can have an empty stomach and still have like 10-15 minutes to save myself similar to legacy. Smart stamina management combined with a bit of luck in finding AI, I have managed to cling to life despite the added pressure of being pursued by adult carnotaurs.

I can't imagine utahraptor mains will be having much fun until update 3 introduces fishing, but I am very impressed. Thank you!

[torn nymph]

the carno should not be faster then a utah

If the carnotaurs was slower than a utah by just a slight bit this would mean it cant run away from a pack of utahraptors but after all it would still have a good chance of winning this battle it should not be able to run down a utah unless it gets close enough to where the utah cant reach full speed in time to get away. this would also mean it would be slightly easier for utahs to take out full grown carnos but this would still be a pretty hard fight for the utahs either way but this change would give the utahs a better chance for survial.
im not suggesting u make them way slower im just saying by a slight bit because they do still have their charge attack which could make them faster than a utah if u make this change

[zenith minnow]

Tenonto

• Lower growth time to raise population in the ecosystem
• Somehow improve combat efficiency to be able to fend off or be equal to 1 adult Carno

Dryo

• Larger stamina pool, but give the dodge invincibility frames while making it cost more stamina.

Carno

• Increase Carno health slightly so that it is in critical condition after a second tail attack from a Stegosaurus. Making it so that a group of Carnos can actually take down 1 Stegosaurus while Utah’s do it no problem.

[lucid ether]

Better balancing for growing dinosaurs.
I know this is probably being worked on, but damage/health/food drain on growing animals seems really hit and miss right now.

Carnos and stegos are way too strong when they're small (including fresh spawns), while tenos and utahs are extremely pathetic. Babies should probably be on the most even playing field with one another, considering they're all hatchlings, and stats can change to match their size as they grow. Babies across the board should be frail. This isn't to say that their stats can't vary, as stego is fatter and carno should hit harder than a utah. However, they should not be able to threaten things much larger/older than themselves. Carnos can 1-3 shot a lot of things as a baby, including larger, young carnos. From my own experience, I 2-shot a carno ~150% my own size as a hatchling, making baby carno matchups extremely chaotic.

It's also worth noting that growing a carno has been almost easy compared to growing a utah, which has caused carno populations to remain stacked. The few utahs that reach adulthood often do so by stealing food from carnos or hiding and eating AI. Adults, assuming they're skilled in combat, fair well fighting carnos. But lacking pounce until full adulthood and carnos just being overall more survivable (stronger, faster, better stamina) leaves growing utahs at a massive disadvantage.

Growing utahs also have a high hunt expectancy for being so small. Even with the addition of AI that juvis can hunt, it's odd that carnivores have the same hunger drain as herbivores who have a failsafe against starvation (grazing). Baby utah can't reliably hunt dryo - this is one area where carnos do almost too well.

I know everyone is worried about the balance of adult animals, but let's face it. A lot of time, maybe most of our time, is spent growing dinosaurs unless you're on a server handing out grows. Growing is an important, immersive, and fun part of the experience and should feel rewarding.

[lofty yoke]

Someone brought up over-packing, and I had an idea to help discourage it:

Right now, animals have a limited maximum capacity for group space (3 carnos, etc.), but this doesn't prevent multiple groups of three hunting together.

My possible solution is this:
Within a radius, if your MAXIMISED GROUP are near others of the same species, you are afflicted with a debuff that increases the rate hunger is lost. Maybe it could start at 10% (so walking near another juvie just trying to get by won't kill off your whole pack) and increases over time up to 50%, I'm not sure...
However, this should encourage distance and/or even conflict between packs. Almost like a pseudo terriorty mechanic.

[night fern]

@lofty yoke this sounds really interesting!, a territory mechanic would make sense and could very well be used to deter people from grouping a bunch. Maybe modify the scent system so a new scent appears which can be easily recognized as a member of your species and have it show a certain radius? would make sense for predators like carno as i can't really imagine them being pack hunters (atleast not more than 2-3 in a group)

[dry beacon]

let just come around and say it Utah is smaller and weaker then Carnos and yes makes since because they hunt in packs but there is no reason to play Utah if a Carno can even outrun a Utah! Utah should be the fastest of the dinos we currently have it's absurd how overpowerd the carno has been made compared to Utah (and Teno as well for that matter) in whose fantassy world have a bigger more muscular and bulky carno ever been able to OUTRUN a Utah raptor! and don't get me wrong i like carno as well, but i like BALANCE more

[hollow lion]

Tenonto still needs a little buff to damage or health, carno needs slower acceleration and deceleration, and utah's pounce is pretty OP.

[twin pebble]

I think that the stam regen is indeed an issue right now and the hunger drain is a tad too aggressive, but this isn't a dino social sim or a realism game. It's a survival game. And from what I've seen from other survival games, it's usually stressful and challenging. You die often until you get it right. On top of it, if it's supposed to be a horror genre, it should be even more stressful.

Don't make it too easy for us to keep our dinosaurs alive or to grow them. Cannibalism and realism shouldn't matter for the balance of the game.

Focus on your game vision, first and foremore. 🙂

[wary oyster]

small little think relating to tenontos fighting carnos. The tail slap is supposed to be a good stun you can do that sacrifices stamina, and is supposed to punish players for ass ridding, and allow the tenonto to get some serious damage in on the enemy. With the carno, giving it a tail slap has an incredibly short stun, and is almost impossible to get some decent damage onto the carno since it gets up almost as soon as the tenonto finishes turning around and begins attempting to get some damage in. Not only that, but its very difficult to land these tail hits on the carno, so theres almost no reward for being skilled with the tail-smite. Doing a tail slap against a carno is just a waste of stamina atm

[tired locust]

https://imgur.com/a/FZYWIvJ Here is my next installment of my "EVRIMA highlights"! This next topic covers my favorite dinosaur and why it should be playable. I hope you enjoy this since a lot of work went into this!

[hollow ridge]

Perhaps add more unique ways for dinos to shake off utahs pouncing them. Right now utahs can just pounce anything head on, which makes fights very booring and less strategical. Once a utah is on you there isnt much you can do exept run into water or hold shake them off once with RMB, which has a massive cooldown.

[icy ferry]

when utahs pounce an animal , maybe they can mudbathe or just stop drop and roll , kinda like a mudbathe but just anywhere if you get pounced by utahs , you can roll around and try and get them off with brute force

[novel sail]

Or a dinosaur could plop its butt down on the ground for a chance of squishing anything that is pouncing on them. Stop, drop, and roll.

[fierce crest]

Juvi Carnivores is set to be much more difficult to grow/play. There is so less AI, I personally dont like the Hotfix with the Balance (if its a bug, okay). But even the Map is bigger again, I dont like it. I play on a German Server, there are too many dying by starve...

[oak kernel]

Personally I think bleed needs another rework, or at least needs some major additions in order to make it actually viable, currently as a Carno I can walk off Stego bleed from a body shot very easily with absolutely no negative effects. In the future I'd like to see stamina, movement speed, and health deplete over time in order to make bleed a weapon that can actually be used to cause severe trauma and be an actual danger to animals. Id also like to see blood be used much more in tracking, currently it's relatively hard to track through blood because it is just as visible as footprints where it is blocked visibly by foliage, only difference is that there is less blood on the ground than footprints. To fix this, the more bleed you have on your character, the more blood drops, meaning that the drops of blood are much more frequent. Another defining trait of blood is it's scent, there's a reason that the myth around sharks is that they can "smell a drop of blood from a mile away". Blood should be able to be detected from much farther away than most other scents are, as well as beings able to be detected through foliage and maybe terrain. Depending on the animal, this could range from beyond the scent range of your food/water to footprint detection range.

TLDR: Blood needs to be better, both statistic wise and scent wise.

[pearl zephyr]

Since many people are concerned with magys viability, I have a rather extreme suggestion that may help: give it a niche similar to that of a red dart tree frog (or any other toxic animal). Red dart tree frogs aren't physically special just like magys. Not fast, not strong, etc. (Sure they can climb trees, but they still have plenty of threats there.) Magy rn may have plans to only give players bad side effects when eaten, but my concern there is will these bad effects be enough? Will they go away after a short time? Players may just hunt magy for fun if they know the consequences aren't that severe. So, just like the red dart tree frog, why not make them severe? Make magy extremely toxic, enough to flat out kill anyrhing that eats it (except cerato) after a minute or so. Of course with this concept being so harsh, every animal that would die from it should receive a clear warning. Ideas include its tracks and corpse scents being off colored, a dead corpse being off colored or otherwise disgusting looking, or with the new diet system and ui overhaul, anything but a cerato should get a clear "warning, highly toxic" there. This toxin would of course not only be in the flesh but also the blood, making even biting/attackin a magy deadly

I understand 100% guarantee of death may be too extreme in some people's eyes, so perhaps it could be 90% death rate or 80% etc. But it would still need to be a high enough chance that players wouldn't want to risk it

In my opinion this is probably the best solution to make magy viable without the devs needing to heavily chabge its stats or abilities etc. It would also give the magy a very interesting niche never before seen on the isle

TLDR; make magys blood and flesh a deadly toxin to all dinos but cerato in order to make it viable and prevent players attacking/killing it for fun

[marble hull]

Idk why so many people went against dappers magy feedback because he's right, everything will body the magy and that's a fact so what I suggest is taking it back to the drawing board, tweaking the model slightly, upping it's size and sticking a club on its tail to then be renamed from magyrarosaurus to Shunosaurus. I have said in the past that the devs should've gone with either Shuno or Amargasaurus as they are both good sized Sauropods, they'll still have a rough time the apex's but what won't right? The Shuno would be about the same size as the stego rn (maybe a tiny, itsy bit smaller) and with a club on its tail would be pose a decent threat to smaller carnis and a good chunk of the mid tiers as well and like I said earlier, the model for magy could stay relatively intact just with a size adjustment and a club on the tail meaning they would save money and time on this whilst giving us a much better playable Sauropod.

[tired locust]

this guy gets a "this guy gets it" award

[muted vortex]

Redefining Survival: How to re-think the purpose of starvation, how to emphasize struggle as a motivator and establishing carcasses as the new POIs.

This is a collection of my own feedback and comments that I feel present a theme of ideas and approaches for improving balance and the overall survival experience.

I feel these separate posts are more compelling when grouped together, providing a better glimpse at how the whole system would be improved.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/19oWwaGTKdyXdDPUpelk07_K5Fh0zCU2l_pdo6sODIk4/edit

[tulip garden]

I believe that Hypsi needs a buff overall, the stam is bad, its not fast enough to escape anything (thats to be expected), and its spit barely does anything to the hunters. For one the trees are meant to be an escape for the hypsi but in 2 jumps, if they aren't landed your outta stam, kinda whack if you ask me. I know that its supposed to be able to manevure very well to avoid attacking prey but tbh that doesn't work very well. The spit needs to blind for longer, that split second isn't gonna do anything if your footprints are like christmas lights.

[lavish tundra]

Apart from agility, teno even suffers against carno in terms of strength,Teno deals 130 damage with claw attack and carno deals 350, so carno can easily kill teno with 5-6 bites and tengo needs around 15 hits to kill a carno without wasting excessive stamina or using an attack that doesn’t turn and is easier to miss. I think that carno should have around 200N bite force and tengo should get a buff to 200-250 so it can have a fair fight or a little bit in favor of teno. Carno isn’t supposed to hunt herbivores of its size, its supposed to hunt small animals like dryos,hypsis,utahs... And maybe other things like teno but in group. IRL carno had a very weak jaws and teeth, it was completely built for speed and hunting small stuff. Right now teno can easily be the worst creature in evrima

[lavish tundra]

Carno is especially oppressive in the meta rn.

Specifically that it's a hybrid of being a brawler/tank and a speed demon.
Every dinosaur within the game operates with having a geared playstyle while having drawbacks as the result of that.
Ex: Utah having great speed, agility, and versatility. With the drawbacks being much lower attack damage and lower Hp when compared to it's competition.
Ex: Stego have a poweful ranged thagomizer that dishes out bleed, while having very tanky hp to shrug off attacks. Yet the Stego's attacks can be baited to miss, while having lower speed and turn radius from the other dinosaurs.

Now, when you put Carno on the table. To put everything into summary
Pros: Greater Speed, Strong bite, Good bleed, Tanky, Maneuverability. High Stamina.
Drawbacks: Maybe slow stam regen? Sometimes slow turn when de-accelerating

He's supposedly a hit and runner. But when he can face tank, agile, and drift hit enemies. It's hard to think that it somehow passed balance testing
On paper and in practice, you'd think that there was somewhat over tuning at least somewhere. Even nerfing his damage, would not invalidate his niche as a small game hunter
What you've done is essentially you made a Cerato with the Carno's speed.

[hollow ridge]

Make utahs able to use their special ability when they spawn or hit sub adult. It really sucks that utahs cant pounce when they spawn since they arent viable in combat without it. It makes it so that only fully adult raptors are viable in combat and growing them very booring.

[muted vortex]

How is it Carno is presumed to be a specialized, small prey hunter and some how not be agile enough to hunt small skittery prey? I think Carno’s ability to break turn may not be too far off...just it’s acceleration out of that break turn is questionable.

The one thing I’d say is missing in order to properly balance out Carno’s break turn ability is the proper modeling of “cost” for such an extreme maneuver. These high performance break turns have to expend stamina. Just like repeated jumps burn increasing amounts of stamina for Utah and Hypsi(and rightfully so), break turns in quick succession should also burn increasing amounts of stamina.

Try it yourself. From a sprint, try to make rapid changes in direction of at least 90 degs(especially right after rapidly accelerating up to sprint speeds between “jukes.). Each break turn expends significantly more energy than just sprinting. Each one progressively builds up fatigue in the leg muscles(if you are doing it right, at a high level of effort). Each “juke” tends to diminish in how much displacement it can achieve and how rapidly you can accelerate out of it.

Carno needs to have its break turn ability and it’s acceleration out of that break turn diminished after the 3rd or 4th break turn in rapid succession. Each break turn after the 4th that happens within the cool-down period to be deemed rapid succession, causes a significant increase in stamina consumption and reduction in acceleration.

A Carno that rapidly attempts break turns will ultimately find its pursuit broken down to a trot. It can still break turn after its stamina is depleted, it’s just restricted to a trot.

Edit: Additional details for this proposed mechanic is added toward the end of the document.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AuZQLSp7g_XI3bPwPpyFdCd2uH_jxSfxbI1XehRx68o/edit

[open herald]

Carno is a real problem currently. The Isles Opressor Mk2. Too Overpowered, just like Nacen said, he can do everything, fast, tanky, makes good damage, good turningradius. He needs a big nerf. Carno is made to hunt weak things but should be able to hunt bigger things in group, but carno is not an allo. His jaw is not made to make significant damage.

[fickle moss]

Maybe carno could make several steps while stopping, as it was made for allo in legacy.

[jaunty elk]

carno has a small jaw and jagged teeth. currently, carnos bite force does a lot of damage, making carno viable as a tank, but i dont think carno should fit into the "tank" category. tanks are slow for a reason. carnos are high speed runners, and they should be punished for staying in close proximity to larger prey and trying to "facetank" them down. i think carnos bite force should be lowered, but their bleed should be increased. their jaws are made to tear, not to crush, and their fighting strategy should be multiple running passes to bleed out larger prey, NOT killing them with brute strength via a high bite force.

[rotund cipher]

I very much agree with scarlet's suggestion. Carno is hardly ment to be a tanky mid tier opponent, like an allo or what cerato is planned as in the future. It's lean and isn't too well designed for tackling larger prey alone like some of the crushers. As has been stated before, it's more geared towards running down smaller prey like dryos, gallis, and other small or young dinosaurs at very high speeds, while taking on larger prey with hit-and-run tactics in groups. Even in the concept art by Tapwing it shows two carnos taking quick turns dodging and weaving around a tenonto, taking quick bites with their smaller but sharp teeth to bleed it out. As stated above, lowering the bite damage/force should help this issue and gear carno more towards it's real niche in Evrima.

[crude osprey]

So they said the Hypsi jump stamina drain was a bug. Well, they fixed the stamina bug, and now the hypsi jump takes even MORE stamina! This wasn't a bug, its a nerf to an already weak af dino.

[nova trail]

Now utah and carno feels balance but plz fix the fucking pounce stuck in trees and ground

[weary patrol]

just like the new concept art just posted i hope they would atleast consider allowing the pterandon to fly down to the water and take a quick sip whilst still in the air maybe make it not give much water like with grazing just a little to help when really low so they still have to land and be vulnerable to predators to get a good drink ( i know its probably fishing but its still a cool idea) https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/664914260648001555/786052050227036180/Pteraconcept.jpg

[novel sail]

I think something needs to be done about Tenontos stunlocking... My Carno t-posed for several seconds after the flinch animation finished and I almost ended up dying because two Tenontos tried to stunlock me.

[sonic kettle]

Utahs pounce is way too easy to hit I can pounce a stegos head and somehow be arranged onto its body it really shouldn't be that easy. Pouncing should take skill right now you can pounce anywhere on a dino and somehow be rearranged to a proper pounce position which takes zero skill. If a utah pounces on a place it shouldnt be able to pounce it should automatically be thrown off.

[full lantern]

Fractures should be locational, and have different effects for example. You get hit in the jaw by a pachy? jaw fracture, hit in the leg by a pachy? leg fracture. (no neck fracture though)

side effects of locational fractures should vary too, like if you do have a completely broken jaw and ur a carni, you have a severely less dmg with a bite. And if you have a completely broken leg, heavily reduced mobility and stam.

[hollow lion]

In the next hotfix can you try using the carno nerf suggestions sooner rather than later? Other than the carno I think utah's I frames should definitely be removed or at least shortened. I think the pounce should be strong, but again there has to be drawbacks. Utah pouncing a stegos head should just fall off, or at least be able to be bitten. The teleporting to the side just makes it too easy.

[warped bone]

Could we nerf the utah pounce in some way? A full grown tenonto loses half of its health from one pounce and the bucking almost never works in knocking them off before the utahs stam gets low. Maybe make the bucking more effective or make the utah pounce do less dmg

[barren field]

in that case, speed up the bite/claw attack of the utah

[cyan mirage]

I'm going to just come up front: DEINO SHOULDN'T BE IN UPDATE 3!
If deino is put in update 3, it will disrupt the entire ecosystem and would ruin the game's core balance. Deino is essentially an apex, should we have an apex in the game right now? No. I will simply be too overpowered. An apex in a game made of lightweights spells disaster. I would say wait until rex ai is added. Instead, I think update 3 should be beiposaurus. We get a creature that wont disrupt the game too much in ways of balance, and we still get a semi aquatic omnivore/herbivore with new swimming mechanics. I just think that getting deino this early into evrima would be unhealthy for the game in its current state.

[fervent dirge]

Welp, for now, utah is doing too much damage with it's pounce. For example, today I played as full adult stegosaurus, and, of course, pack of utahraptors came in. They really didn't care about the tail attacks, just jumped on me, even on my tail and did damn tons of damage, poor stego had no chance and died pretty fast. The yellow pulse line and 3rd screen with just one pounce from a 700kg utah to a 4,5 ton stego. Stegosaurus just can't defend itself from a pack of 1 tier dinosaurs, who weight and grow 5 times less, then stego itself. Too unbalanced for now and needs to be fixed/nerfed.

[torn nymph]

Switch update 4 and 5 around this will give carno direct competition besides deino which spends most of its time in water the cerato will be vulnerable to many things carnos Utah’s and deino but will also balance out the carno more and give it more competition besides a pack of Utah’s with enough balls to try. And the magy can seek protection from larger herbivores like stego but it is also a good prey item

[dense cave]

As of right now, stegosaurus was my favorite herbivore, it poses a good strength, and swings a ferocious thagomizer whilst being the hardest herbivore to tail-ride in Evrima/The Isle. But for my opinion, I think stegosaurus needs a buff, I want it to be able to swing it's lethal tail while running/walking/trotting. Since 10 hours is not worth it. Plus, making it's tail a bleeder would make it powerful. A small group of Stegosaurus could overpower apexes since they're tactics are hit and run.

[novel sail]

Shrink Carno and maybe Tenonto to its normal size, please. We were told we would have more accurate dinosaur sizes, and yet we have an oversized Carnotaurus nearly matching Stego in size.

[clever solar]

I think there should be a way for you to toggle wether you want to hold a dinosaur in your mouth after you kill it.

We've been bullying Carnos as Dryo hoards all week and it only takes about 23 hits from an adult Carno to die from a Dryo. The Carno can easily kill a Dryo, but the body automatically gets picked up in its mouth. The Carno cannot bite the swarm of Dryos at it's feat, who are getting free hits in, while the body is in its mouth. It is embarrassingly easy to kill a Carno this way if you have 6+ Dryos.

Same for when the Carno charges and a body gets stuck on its horns. When this happens it cannot continue to take out more than one target, which is what it needs to combat the swarms.

I suggest maybe having a button or setting where you can toggle wether you want your attacks to grasp bodies or not?

[surreal turret]

I think most of the playerbase's problem with carno-utah conflict is that they used to this from legacy: carno's outrun the utahs, and utahs out-turn the carnos so it's a fair fight among them. Now that everything has so fast turn radius, it looks even less skill based than before, since carnos just go up to something and kill it (except stego). I don't know how to fix this issue, I know carno players are perfectly fine with this, but this is so unfair towards other players.

The teno has a bit bigger problem tho, since it's almost as big as a stego, so visible from almost anywhere. Teno is my favourite dino in Evrima so far but it's simply pointless to grow since carno just runs up to it and kill it 3-4 bites, no way to leave a full adult carno behind and no way to defend yourself and no way to hide. And they also have almost the same growth time.

My last thoughts are about the footprints. I preferred one thing about them in legacy, that when you just walked, it didn't leave footprints continuously, the slower you moved the less footprints you left behind. I would bring that back so if a random something that you are well hid from just randomly sniffs and then you are a free meal. This would make juvie/hatchling life a bit easier and also if you're being hunted, well there is the wallow (and probably rain later on) to mask your nice bright footprints when you running.

[lament portal]

Some perk ideas except for only adding bite force/hp. Perks that decrease hunger drop, increase weight and size by like 5%/7,5%, decrease stamina drop, increase growth, increase herd limit if youre the alpha (if you want to add alpha as the herd leader into the game), increase egg gestating speed, increase toxicity, make your footprints/blood stains disappear faster, mud stays on for way longer etc. so that you can choose different game styles.

[vale island]

As a carno, having to hunt for food 24/7 is a real issue. There should be a mechanic that allows you after killing a body. to hide it in the ground so that 1. The body does not despawn, 2. the smell of blood is removed. and 3. you can still eat from it for a while after it has been killed. Saving from over hunting/ and allowing adults to better feed young. You should feel rewarded for taking down a dino, enough so that you can relax for a bit. :my suggestion is to add a burrow mechanic for carnos
allowing them to while meeting certain conditions

1. The body is currently being held in their mouth.
2. The body is recently fresh :1- 5 minutes old:
3. it is a flat area that is not a rock formation
   They can then burry the body with a tiny mound on it, allowing them to later walk up and pull chunks of meat out for future food consumption.

[alpine lodge]

After update 3 the cerato and magy update should come out before pachy update, because carno is to strong in this meta, and we another mid tier carnivore that can keep meta balanced.

[hollow ridge]

Changing a bit on what @vale island said, a flesh chunck burrowing mechanic could be a good and unique special ability for any dino that it fits.

[atomic kernel]

As we know allo has not shown up on the roadmap (so far). so i was brainstorming some abilities for it. The main one that popped into my head was bringing back the ambush mechanic but only for the allo, but mid run you can hit right click like carno to initiate into a grapple instead of a headbut. this grapple could work on all dinos but is more effective the bigger you are to the opponent or where you land it. possibly giving more bleed than allos normal bites by using its claws + its teeth for the grapple it could make for a situation where you get into a tug of war against one, or if the target is big enough more allos. possibly using the bleed mechanic in a more aggressive way than a passive way.

[muted vortex]

We need an armor mechanic:
Why are Dryo even allowed to injure adult Carnos? The game needs an armor mechanic. Simply put, your teeth/claws must be long enough to puncture the skin in order to cause meaningful damage for most dinos. Crusher/Compression based biters like, but not necessarily exclusive to, Rex and Deino would have modified mechanics to acknowledge the tissue damage incurred from bite force alone.

Partial penetration allows for a reduced damage. Something like a minimum of 85% of tooth length penetration is required for full damage. 50% penetration would only net about 33% damage...less than 10% penetration would only net about 5% damage.

Poor/no tooth penetration would suggest that most dinos would have reduced to no ability to damage target HP...and that what little penetration they could achieve, would only be capable of minimal bleeding.

Crushers would apply damage similarly to typical bites, but would also have bonus damage caused solely from compression based tissue damage, unaffected by all but hardened armor. Presumably, only Strains and perhaps specialized armor on some standard dinos(Anky, etc) would have skins armored enough to resist the compression forces of Crusher/Compression based biters...which can be simply modeled as a species and age based resist buff against the likes of Rex and Deino’s compression damage.

[full lantern]

I had an idea to make pounce a bit more engaging.

When a Utah pounces said Dino, a bar appears on the victim and pouncers screen, the pouncer has to keep their side of the bar over the victim, while the victim has to evade these attempts to cover the bar. Similarly to UFC 4’s Grappling system or Saurians pounce system.The struggle keeps going till the pouncer missed and falls off, the pouncer falls off, or the victim evades the attempts by the pouncer for long enough, causing the pouncer to fall off.

I think this would be much more engaging and would balance pounce more than simply holding RMB, ty!

[warped onyx]

A mechanic that makes you automatically attack carnivores not in ur group that u've been near for too long.
it'll stop megapacks since they'll all be attacking each other

[safe garnet]

Have Utahs pounce inflict more bleed rather than a lot of damage, and also reduce its damage so its atleast minimal. This'll prevent any more Utahs from taking down stegos extremely easily (Just takes 4 Utah's atm. All 4 have to pounce a full adult stego and it's a gonner), while balancing it so it can be used as a bleeding technique rather than a better bite.
The point is not that if 4 utahs should be able to kill a stego, it is in how much time and with how much skill.

Pouncing a stego is like throwing an egg to a house. Impossible to miss and 0% skill based.

[misty oar]

Juvie tenoto could really do with a speed boost. It's just walking bait currently and instant death if spotted. It's so slow it can't even weave in and out of the dense undergrowth in forests to try to lose things, as they catch right up in seconds.

Would be nice if juvies as a whole were fun to encourage them being actively played. Otherwise it encourages people to afk grow as it's the only way they can reach adult.

[runic token]

Here is a couple of my complaints with carno right now, carno gets to top speed way to fast, it should get to top speed a little slower and make carno players actually think when they go in for an attack instead of just going in skidding and running far away in a few seconds. Next is how fast carno turns, when skidding it turns on a dime, slow the turn on the skidding and the normal standing alt-turn a little. The last is not related to balance but needs to be said, carno feels empty without the blood stains when it eats a corpse.

Tldr of this
-Slow carnos acceleration down by alot so it feels like carno again.
-slow carnos skidding turn and standing alt-turn a bit.
-add the blood stains when eating a corpse to carnos face.

[warped bone]

What if utah had pounce during all stages of its life? It would certainly help in hunting down the ai as a smol utah

[feral hedge]

I wanted to talk about the future of Crowd Control in Evrima and the baseline each one should follow.
-Grabs: Drain Stamina
-Pins: Increase Dmg Taken
-Knock Back: Displaces Target
-Knock Down: Stuns Target
-Stagger: Interrupts Action
-Slows: Reduce Movement Speed
-Impale/Crush: Automatic Death

Example, a Utah's Pounce would be labelled as a Grab for animals too big to knock over (Tenonto, Carno, Stego) and would serve mainly to drain their stamina. At the same time, it can also be classified as a Pin for smaller creatures (Dryo, Hypsi, Beipi, and probably Pachy) making it incredibly dangerous to get caught by its Pounce. The reason why I draw a line between Pins and Knock Downs is because of the nature of Carno's Charge and its contraction with Utah's Pounce. When it comes to the latter, the Utah is still using the same basic attack. The former is a full on stun, no doubt about it, but it doesn't cause the victims to take increased dmg-just prevents them from moving.

For the other CC-Knock Backs: Tenonto's Kicks and Trike's Face Counter; Slows: Fractures; Staggers: Carno Charge (large animals); Knock Downs: Tenonto's Tail Slam and Carno's (small animals); and Impalements: Stego's Tail (Small Animals) and Trike's Horn (Critical Chance), Crush: Hadrosaurs and Sauropods with Stomps (Critical Chance).

The reason I bring all of this up is because I really want CC to be followed more closely and so it can be clearly defined in what is happening. In the future, when we're given Perks, it would be nice to see Crowd Control Reductions make their way as branching offers for playstyles. A Dryo in an environment with nothing but Utahs will buy Perks for Pin Reduction, switch the predators with Carnos and that same Dryo will pick Perks in Knock Down Reduction. That said, a Stego existing with Utahs and Allos (with a rumored suplex) will spec into Grab Reduction.

Just some examples.

[ivory totem]

I suppose it is quite hard to remake a mechanic and its interface this much, but in case it isn't...

I kind of liked the idea of ​​making the blood loss completely tied to your stamina and draining it from the highest point to complete loss, which was an assumption of how new bleed would work a year ago, as well as bleed death animations. It would also be nice if you could slow your bleed in other ways besides wallowing in the mud, which would require rebalancing the system. Maybe even stego would hold longer against utahs if the way to kill him is blood rather than brute force.

[dapper dove]

So,this feedbackwont be long but I hope someone of the developers sees this.

As grazing got into evrima it was exciting,even tho the devs said it will take longer than normal to get your food up.As I got experience with playing as herbivore and grazing I would suggest that,grazing should get a bit buffed.Like it doesnt add to your hunger and you will still starve while grazing or after you finish grazing for like 5 minutes. So as of my feedback,grazing should be buffed so it adds more food so you wont starve while grazing or right after finishing grazing for a long time.

[timid cargo]

Grazing Feedback: Adjustment

I like the idea and implementation of Herbivores grazing on plants. But I feel like it needs some adjustments to make it feel better to use, but punishing if continuously abused.

As a heads up before diving in
I don't know much about how the diet system will work mechanically, and I don't want to make assumptions on it until it's fully implemented, so everything here will be going off the current state of the game.

Pros of grazing:
-It allows the player a "get out of death" card if they cannot find food.
-It feels good to eat something that grows everywhere.
-It makes sense that herbivores can eat plants that grow everywhere.

Cons of grazing:
-It promotes huge & Mixed herds with minimized drawbacks.
-It decreases competition amongst each other, and different herbivore species
-Grazing is really slow and feels tedious to use.
-Grass doesn't despawn in areas with mass grazing (And it'll probably be tedious to implement this)

How do we fix this?
Adjustment feedback:

Taking elements from over-eating where your max thirst and hunger become limited as a debuff. Instead the status, "Nausea" will only affect your max hunger.

As a rough estimate, if your hunger is at 0%, and you eat grass, you will gain 1% "nausea" for every 2% of hunger. This means if you are starving and must resort to grazing, you can fill up to 1/2 of your hunger the first time around. But as you continuously rely on this mechanic, your max hunger will get lower and lower. (and suffer typical over-eating debuffs)

TL:DR SOLUTION You can eat grass pass 20% hunger and at a faster rate, but will cause nausea (Similar to the over-eating mechanic) to slowly accumulate every time you continuously use it.

-Large herds will be harder to sustain
-More herbi competition
-Forces more pro-active herbivores to go out and find food, and fight for it if desperate
-Punishes players for only eating grass.

[cedar plover]

Currently Evrima balance is almost in a perfect spot to be ready for update 3, with respect for what may be the next hotfix coming with the secret and fixes to known issues I want to voice changes that I'd like to be made regarding balance of the current creatures. Specifically Carno and a little returning bit from Tenonto(The balance issues with Utahs pounce stem from known issues stated in patch notes).

Carno:
⭐ Increase the length of time Carno has to skid to go from sprinting to a full stop. Currently Carno can go from top speed to full brake and burst off in another direction between .5 and 1 second, this is far too quick for a 2 ton animal running at +60 kmph and allows it to have fairly excess pressure capabilities on smaller animals. Toning this down to the 1 to 1.25 second range should help this. If clarification for what I mean by skid is needed then I am free to provide
⭐ Half Carno's Stamina Capacity, with its improved regeneration and mobility the aspect that should take a slight hit is its stamina capacity. This in turn will make it so Carno burns stamina more quickly in a sustained battle, but being the fastest land creature in the game it can always disengage to regenerate if the correct plays are made.
**- **Downsize Carno to its accurate size. Currently Carno is at the same length and height of the maximum Allosaurus fragilis size estimates, dwarfing Stego and Tenonto when the case shouldn't be. And if Carno remains at this size then what will be of the larger carnivores? An Acro sized Allosaurus? A Giga sized Acro? A Camara Sized Giga? The problem will escalate unless the size scaling is kept consistent between creatures and not some being accurate and some oversized. (Make Carno keep its current top speed after downsize)

Tenonto:
- Downsize tenonto and keep its top speed the same, the same problems from Carno apply here. Pls fix

All of these in summary should help balance Carno and prepare for the future of the game

[lavish tundra]

Bleed in my opinion is undertuned. Honestly, I like this better than the legacy's bleed, but your blood pool takes ages to run out. You will kill things with raw dmg. I understand that this is also suppose to help tracking, but what about dinosaurs that can't run away from you? then the "tracking" part is kinda useless, and with bleed being this undertuned, it's kind of a waste in my opinion. Just to make sure, I don't want it to be overtuned either, I don't want to die after a carno bite, but for an example, as a Stego I took atleast 6 bite from a pack, ran/trot for like 10 minutes-ish, and my blood pool was still around half.

[nova trail]

I dont think we need Ai utah on evrima as this Will ruin the balance between utah players. Once 2 utahs want to group up but 1 of them is Ai but other utah doesnt know that and Will be killed by Ai. Thats gonna be dumb. I dont think we need any carnivore as ai

[lavish tundra]

I don’t know if this is better to post in here. Field of View feedback.

#general-feedback message

[novel sail]

Pounce is overturned; Utahs are free to use ir because they have no reprocussions and pounce automatically sets them on a suitable location to do damage. Here are my suggestions on how to make pounce more fair to other players.

1. Players may use wasd or dwas in quick succession to spin and shake Utahs off.

2. When collision arrives, allow your dino to slam itself into a tree/rock and pin the pouncers against it and cause severe damage at the cost of suffering minor damage of your own. Perhaps, also choose to drop down on the ground by double tapping S in quick succession and rolling the Utahs off.

3. If a pouncer fails to pounce, make it tumble on the ground in the same manner as when a pouncer has been bucked off.

4. If something pounces on top of you and you fall on your back, give players options to defend themselves by kicking, clawing, and biting back.

5. Voluntarily dismounting from a pounce should not cause Utahs to roll helplessly, but being bucked off should. Remove the invincibility frames. Being kicked off or missing a pounce should be punishing; this IS a game of survival of the fittest.

6. If a dinosaur has a long neck (carno, sauropods, Theri, some hadrosaurs) allow it to nip and bite at the Utah. In extreme cases, allow it to rip the Utah off at the cost of some health.

7. Significantly reduce the amount of damage a single Utah does with a single pounce. Pouncing and overwhelming an enemy should be a team effort, yet two Utahs can down a carno in ten seconds flat.

8. Maybe make the initial act of pouncing not initiate health drain. Clicking repeatedly initiates bleed and very minor health loss, but just clinging can slowly drain stamina.

[timid pelican]

adjust the food values for every animal in evrima, a dryo should be more than enough to fill up a carno or utah on its own, a tenonto doubly so, carnivores shouldnt be forced to hunt every 10 minutes after killing and eating something twice the size of their stomach, the only animal with a semi correct food value currently is hypsi, and thats just because its such an abysmally small animal that it would be worth basically nothing anyways

[feral hedge]

Grazing Revisited

Currently, the chosen way to balance it is to prevent herbivores from gaining more than 20% of their hunger bar back (forgive me if I got that wrong). It's a last resort that forces you to look for bushes if you don't want to munch grass every five minutes. Not bad, but I think we can do better. I think you can make a very interesting meta that encourages exploration across the map, create competition between herbivores, and ensure that the ecosystem is always active with encounters.

For a more detailed explanation of how to do this : https://steamcommunity.com/app/376210/discussions/14/5188663423649268984/

To break it down here:

1-Assign Nodes for areas you want herbivores to be able to graze at, give them a radius for however big you want the grazing field to be, and then grant them a number representing their value in food.

2-Whenever a herbivore is in the radius of this of Node, they can Graze. Whenever they Graze, the number representing food decreases. Whenever this number reaches 0, no herbivore can Graze in that area until they leave and it regains food over time.

3-Make it so that eating at one Node also reduces the food value in neighboring nodes. A Herbivore should get half of its food from the Node it's standing and grazing in, while the other half should come from the sister nodes.

4-Make Unique Nodes. Current herbivores in game like to eat grass, and that's fine. However, you could have playables that browse trees, eat ferns, even algae or seaweed from places with water.

5-Give visual ques for bountiful land and barren land. I would suggest just making it so that our Scent Compass changes its shade of color. Green for Fertile, Brown for Barren. Give this ability to both Herbivores AND Carnivores.

With all that said, I want to clarify why I think this would be a good feature as well how I think it would naturally fit in the game.

Thank You for your time.

[granite copper]

i wish the stego aimed jab was an additional attack for when stationary, not replacing its main attack. weapon on the rear should be for dont follow me, that was the unique weapon appeal. if i wanted to stand there take hits and brawl id play trike

[novel sail]

Stego is too light. The 9.7 meter specimens weighed 6 tons. At least add another ton to our Stego, please.

[proper saffron]

bleed feels rather insignificant atm, doens really have much of an effect in fights. Either increase the bleed rate or go with the original idea which fills up the stamina footprint, reducing max stamina

[full lantern]

Agreed, bleed is very insignificant as the majority of the roster can just walk it off, bleed should be more deadly, much more deadly. Rn Carnos can tank bleed from a stego’s swipe, which doesn’t make much sense.

[lavish tundra]

Utah should be able to pounce from sub-adult(for very reduced damage, of course) because currently, it has to wait an entire 2 hours to be even slightly viable, when every single medium sized dinosaur(so half the current roster) is capable of oneshotting it.

[icy ferry]

when more large creatures come into the isle , i believe that the utah pounce should be slightly nerfed , but they are able to pounce from younger ages

[lavish tundra]

Dryosaurus overall quality adjustments

Slingshot charged dodge for Dryosaurus:
If you press RMB once Dryo does a fakeout and it doesn’t consume stam. If you hold it you dodge and the distance (as well as the stam cost) increases relative to how much you hold it.

Dryo’s dodge should be omnidirectional and it should have a 1-2 second speedboost that makes up of the terrible momentum loss that current Dryo dodge has.

Finally I would add that Dryo should get a few iframes for the first part of the dodge animation.

PS.: For me, the most not only important but also urgent thing that needs to be fixed is Dryo’s FOV and Camera Height.

Please, feel free to add any suggestions in #balance-feedback-discussion

[novel sail]

Tenonto honestly needs its size nerfed. This thing is 8 meters long MAXIMUM, 6.5 being the bare minimum, and weighs a little over two tons maximum, one ton minimum, yet devs have given players the idea this thing can withstand well-coordinated attacks from larger animals like carnotaurus. It cannot, which disappointed players. We cannot expect a dinosaur designed to remain a certain size and weight with a certain niche and predator-to-prey relationship perform beyond capabilities without a significant boost in stats: size, hp, and damage. Tenonto has the size advantage, but that only makes it a larger target. The only reason Tenontos are surviving against Carnos right now is because of a broken stunlock mechanic.

Changing Tenonto's stats to 50-50 Carno make it unfair for Utahs, since the Tenonto-Utah matchup is pretty balanced sans the overturned pounce mechanic. Nerfing Carno's damage is not the way to go either, since it does not have many options other than Dryo, Hypsi, and Utah to fill its belly and it gets absolutely whooped by Stegos most of the time because Carno, too, is quite oversized, which gives players the impression it should be able to take Stegos in groups, which it absolutely should not and was not anatomically designed for (that title goes to Allo). If no attempt will be made to change Tenonto's damage, I firmly believe Tenonto should shrink to its normal size to reflect it is a step below mid-tier and should be comfortably fighting things like Utahs, Austros, Ceratos, Dilos, and Bary, not beefier dinos like Carno, Allo, Alberto.

Also, shrink Carno back to its regular size of 9m and reduce its weight to 1.35 metric tons. There is no reason for Carno to have such bloated stats.

[lavish tundra]

They should reduce stego’s tail hitbox. I can get hit by it from narnia and beyond. Like today, I was trying to hunt a stego as a pack of Utahs and I got hit from the from of the stego, the tail didn’t even touch me and I died. Stego needs a nerf

[feral hedge]

Deadly Status

I think we can all benefit in play experience by changing Starvation and Dehydration. The ideas I want to share here, are not an attempt to make our playthroughs easier but rather find a compromise that can continues making the game challenging while giving us more options when approaching tough situations.

Starvation: Have it afflict a status called Malnutrition which reduces our Maximum Health Pool over time. The rate of the drop can be 1.66% per a minute, sense we're using an hour for the idea, until we die at 0%. What I'm looking to trade for Random Luck is Guaranteed Vulnerability. Instead of immediately dying in 1-2 minutes, playables become less tanky over time. More importantly, even if they do find food within that time to halt Malnutrition, they still have to remove it. For example, if I'm at 50% Max Hp and I take dmg that put me lower, I can only heal to 50% of my Max Hp. I need to retain a certain amount of food in my stomach to reverse the dmg (which can be #>20%).

Dehydration: Have it inflict a status called Exhaustion which lowers our Maximum Stamina over time. Copy everything from Starvation and Malnutrition. That said, my idea for Dehydration works very much alike what we thought Bleed would in Evrima. The only difference is that Bleed come from some playables. I don't think it's a problem that they're so similar, but I'm open to suggestions.

[spice lotus]

give the Tennotno a better stam regen during walk and let him waist less stamina during a tall and kick

[hollow lion]

A lot of people want carno to be nerfed in some form or another because it is either to strong or doesn't play how it should. Right now I feel like carno rewards stupid run in and spam gameplay. While playing tenonto today I faced a pair of 2 adult carnos who played slowly, almost as if they were trying to bleed me out, but it wasn't strong enough and I eventually killed one and escaped. About 30 minutes later after healing off completely, I saw 2 adult carnos charging in my direction. I stunned both of them while they charged in, but I was also hit by their charge and was stunned. They then proceeded to spam bite without moving, and while hitting each other and I died. That just doesn't seem balanced, fun, or how carno is meant to play. I think bleed needs to be more severe across the board, but for carno it is especially evident. If carno's bleed was somewhat usable, then nerfing its initial bite damage and health wouldn't cause problems, but would force players to take longer engagements and be smarter overall. I might just be mad that my tenonto died tho.

[humble pendant]

1. Pounce should not automatically clip the Utah onto the middle of their target. Like pouncing on a Trike's face, a Utah should bounce off of a Stego's tail, or a Carno's face, and even take damage if they try and pounce on top of said ouchy parts.

2. In addition, pouncing should not deal a lot of direct damage. If anything it should be a bleeding tool, to slowly wear out an opponent. The fact that 4 well-coordinated Utahs can drop a full-grown Stego in under a minute is absurd. They're dromaeosaurs, not chainsaws. That one gif of the baby hippo being pounced by lions comes to mind. (I'd post it below, but slowmode won't let me ) In the short-term, a pounce, or even multiple shouldn't do a lot. But over time, it's a method to stack bleed, and ensure a slow, albeit secured kill.

3. The most important thing pounce needs IMO, is the ability for the pounced animal to remove the Utahs without needing terrain. Either some kind of bucking mechanic needs to be introduced, or if there's one already there, it needs to be far more effective than in the current patch. Like in one of the suggestions in the #general-feedback channel, some kind of "stop, drop, and roll" action could be used, varying by species (although I understand that making an additional animation per dinosaur would be a PITA). If Stego can pulverize its ribcage with its wallow animation, I see no reason why they couldn't do so with a raptor attached.

[feral hedge]

Back to talking about Crowd Control today, with the main subject being the Utah's Pounce. Some time, last week, I listed off the names of a few distinct types of CCs and what they would be capable of doing. Utah's Pounce had two effects depending on the victim: Grab and Pin

Grab: Drains the stamina of the Target

Pin: Increases the dmg taken by the Target

The reason I'm bringing this up is because in current Evrima, Utah's Pounce does something far more severe than either of these. In Smite Terms, it's also a Disarm and a Silence...it prevents people from attacking while under the effect.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but rumor has it that a pack of 4 Utahs can easily kill 1 Stego. Whenever 1 latches on, it prevents the Stego from attacking any other pack mate. Worst yet, any other Utah that Pounces the Stego effectively resets the timer for the Disarm/Silence effect. With 4 Utahs, this goes on until the victim dies or knocks them off. The only way to reasonably do that is run by a tree, rock, or roll in the mud. Aside from the fact that there's a bug that leaves the Utahs floating in at least one of those, this does not sound like very riveting combat.

What I'm suggesting is to remove the Disarm&Silence effect that prevents Stego from attacking anything. The one Utah can be safe from these attacks, but the rest should be fair game. Also, please consider having Utah's Pounce drain Stamina if the Target is too big to knock over. The reward for Pouncing should be weakening the animal, I agree, but that animal should have ways to fight back.

[sly umbra]

UTAH POUNCE COUNTER
Now hear me out Utah mains. Dinosaurs should be able to press a key and be able to shake the utah off, as it is now, if the utah latches on to, say, a Carno's side theres is very little it can do to get it off. if its unlucky enough to be alone in the plains no matter how big the carno is, if the utah just holds right click said carno will eventually die. if there was a way to shake it off that would make the pounce be more based on timing and how quickly you can recover to run away and prepare for another attack.

[raw stirrup]

I'm a little disappointed: the evrima friendship system is a bit primitive, I think it shouldn't be the main one, but optional for players who are around and should call people like the old legacy system.

[lament portal]

Fix pounce-tree glitch, its almost unplayable against carnos who abuse running into a tree when they see a raptor pouncing them.

[queen portal]

The most realistic way of getting rid of Utahs that pounce bigger animals like stegos, in my opinion, is by being able to knock them against rocks and trees or like one of the previous suggestions of “stop, drop and roll”. The Utahs would take damage from this of course instead of automatically killed like in the video. Enough to make them second guess trying to pounce again. It’s weird seeing stegos not really do anything about being pounced right now.

Bucking for tenontos takes too long and leaves you open to other attacks from the front. Since they can run decently this would work great for them. Same for carno’s once the glitch is fixed.

I also agree pounce should do bleed instead of a lot of direct damage.

https://youtu.be/Eh40ZnyfH3w

[timid pelican]

reintroduce the failure zones for pounces on larger dinosaurs
if a utah tries to pounce on these zones the utah either just gets cc'ed and throw onto the ground, or if the defending animal times an attack right it either seriously damages or instantly kills the utah
cc https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/626862728845328395/670107147933188106/2020-01-24_00-25-31.mp4
right timing https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/626862728845328395/667930930748588033/Utah_Pounce_Trike_Horns.mp4

this should add a skill factor to pouncing that the current system doesnt have, ie, utahs pouncing a stegos tail and getting teleported to their side

anti pounce zones:

tenontosaurus: tail and head, should be very tough to grapple onto one of them, further cementing the rivalry of the two animals
carnotaurus: head, usually it would just throw the utah to the ground, but if it bites it does decent damage to the utah, if the utah pounces the head of a charging carno it should get trampled
stegosaurus: tail, similar to the trike videos below, jumping on the head should do nothing unless the stego bites you out of the air
pachy: for any head based attack pachy does it should cc utahs
cerato: head same as carno, special attack should should do something similar to the carnos
magy: tail always and neck during an attack
deinosuchus: head and tail, pouncing this thing should be a liability, if you dont land straight onto its back you should be forced to run, fast
kentrosaurus: unable to be pounced, thing is a giant wall of spikes
further large playables should get similar zones

edit: added the zones for each animal currently on the roadmap

[safe garnet]

Putting this in here just incase
Bleeding System
• At the moment, bleed is pretty lackluster with only one way to deal with it and prevent death: Wallowing. This simple mechanic, although realistic and neat, shouldnt be the ONLY way to deal with bleed. I have incorporated a couple ideas to make bleed more fun, and less lackluster:

• The Red Flowers: You know those red flowers that spawn around the map and can be eaten by herbivores?
The idea is to incorporate medicinal properties. What will this do?

It'll help you by boosting your healing rate when eaten.
To balance this for both factions, make it so carnivores can eat some of the plants capacity while herbivores can eat all of it. When the carnivore eats too much of the plant, it'll puke (As it's used to eating meat), while the herbivore is unscathed.

• Water: Make it so drinking water will slightly boost your healing rate. This'll allow a benefit to the one drinking while meaning a little boost will make it so the water is not a high priority.

• Sitting: Make it so sitting will slow down the bleed. (Can't remember if this was already added)

• Elevation: Make it so being elevated will slow down the bleed. (Don't know how this could be incorporated without IK.)

[quartz aspen]

I understand you want to nerf pouncing, but it shouldn’t be made too weak. In my opinion, maybe it should just make the Utah’s stamina drain faster. As for the areas of pouncing, I definitely agree with you

[still zephyr]

Earlier I was faced with something that many of you may of faced in combat. This problem of course being collision. I was fighting a large herd of stegs and utahs that were mixpacking and I run in to kill a baby steg while killing this baby steg I ran into something a hypsi, now me being a 2 ton carno this should not at all be a problem considering my sheer size and weight compared to that of a hypsi. I would like to propose that dinos whom are smaller than that of yourself have smaller resistance towards counteracting the speed of the larger dino if at all or maybe even kill the dino because of trample damage because of its smaller feature compared to that of a larger animal. This topic is open for improvement so please add on as you see fit.

[spark stirrup]

I think Tenontos could do with being a touch more powerful, right now there is NOTHING a Tenonto can do to escape a Carno if a Carno wants to fight it, and while the tail is devastating in terms of damage, I feel like the Carnos bite damage on Teno is a bit too punishing on Teno that needs to land its tail slams vitally. I'd say a minor health buff and significant damage buff on the Teno claw attack would make it just perfectly balanced in its place as a burlier mid tier herbivore brawler
Tenos are just a little too "live and die" by the tail attack i feel

[sacred sentinel]

Ok so... A baby stego killed me when I was an adult carno.
A baby.
I was 100% adult.
I bit the stupid thing several times and I died first.
Fix this o_o

[robust marlin]

Echoing some points already made:
--Let younger utahs Pounce, but only things of their relative size/weight class, like a later juvie/sub adult pouncing hypsi, dryo etc but not adult carnos or stegos

--Make Carno less maneuverable when fully underway, similar to Legacy, and increase time to accelerate/stop

--A lot of species in general, especially carnivores, need much slower hunger decay times. Just because "its a survival game" doesn't mean everyone should be forced to look for food 25/8 just to starve anyway instead of enjoy the game

My suggestions:
--Nerf some of the carnivores' base speed but reintroduce Crouch Ambushing like on legacy where you get a speed boost for a short duration at the cost of higher stam drain, especially for dinos like Utah and Carno and encourage playstyles that are actually meant for those species

--As a balance for Ambushing, give herbivores a "Adrenaline Boost" mechanic with a speed buff whenever any carnivore is Chasing behind them, that either activates when bitten or a carnivore is following at their tail for a certain amount of extended time (such as 3-5 seconds or longer). Maybe give to carnivores too when another carni is chasing AND has bitten them at least once. Drains more stamina once it wears off but gives prey a better chance of fleeing the initial encounter.

--Adjust speed for dinosaurs depending on how full of food they are, especially carnivores. Slower speed when full or starving (~100-80% & 15-0% hunger), average speed at most stages (15-80%), around 50% fastest speed when they have enough energy for a sprint but aren't weighed down by food/digestion. Ideally this should discourage/make harder pointless "sporthunting" while still managing your dino's needs without too much punishment for carni players

--I know climbing is a long way off, but Hypsi REALLY needs a better way to get into trees as a valid escape tactic. Maybe a similar aim mechanic as spit to a "grapple point" when jump is charged?

[potent chasm]

Mechanic similar to legacy Ambush. If you stay still while crouching for 5 seconds you'll lose the accelerating time, but won't get a speed boost.

[mental rain]

Carno needs a damage nerf and a bleed buff. It also needs acceleration changes. Right now, it's a tank when it shouldn't be.

[lavish tundra]

COMPILATION OF IDEAS
Idea for bleed.

Make it a lot more effective and lethal rather then the pity tears we have right now

dinosaurs like utah should do less damage but inflict insane bleed. for example, buffing stego to give lethal bleed on any mid tier carnivore. this can be negated with clotting your wounds with mud. Utahraptor's pounce needs less overall damage, but should deal near lethal bleed to a mid tier herbivore/carnivore like a sub-high juvi stego. Carno should deal less bleed than most of the other dinosaurs because it's more reliant on hit and run tactics. Tenontos claws shouldn't deal too much to mid-high tier carnivores, and hypsi shouldn't deal any bleed.

As many balance ideas as I can fit(will add another text for the rest, see you in 6 hours)

Utahraptor

Make utahs pounce more bleed reliant than damage lethal, or add more ways to toss of a utah such as, but no limited to...

-running into terrain, knocking utahs off your side: this would not only grant the player base satisfaction, but would also eliminate a bug.
-Bucking: I take it that you are going to fix bucking so I'm not going to say anything much about it, apart from please make both the utah and the herbi take damage when the utah inevitably falls off(the herbi is forcefully removing the biting and clawing utah from its body, causing it to take damage itself, while the utah is gonna fall and take less damage[this shouldn't do very much damage if barely any at all])
-rolling: Somebody in general feedback suggested this before, and I think it would be a good idea as well(maybe as an alternate bucking for really large/less maneuverable dinosaurs)
-no pounce zones/kill zones: if a utah pounces on say, a stego tail or trike horn, it should die instantly as we saw in the previews for evrima. if it lands on a no pounce zone. it falls off, gets cc'd

Utahraptor should deal a lot more bleed than actual damage with it's alt bite
Carnotaurus

just nerf it's health and damage. please

[novel sail]

Please remove Utah's invincibility frames after it's bucked off. What's the point of it being bucked off if it's just gonna get back up and pounce on you again? We should be able to punish a utah on the ground.

[hollow ridge]

If you are going to nerf pounce dmg and increase its bleed, give utah pounce enough bleed so if a carno were to have 2 pounce on it, it wouldnt be able to run away for long before loosing a lot of blood and stamina. If carnos can just tank 2 full pounces from utahs and run away, utahs will not have any real way of killing a fleeing carno.

[lavish tundra]

CONTINUATION OF MY IDEA COMPILATION

Tenontosaurus

It's near perfect too, similar to the carno. no need to change it as far as I know, but I'm sure someone will tell you otherwise

Stegosaurus

b l e e d. if bleed becomes lethal, then stego should inflict lethal bleed on a mid tier carnivore with a single shot. Lethal bleed, not lethal damage. long as the thagomizer hits from in front of the legs, the carnivore should bleed out really easily. When high tier dinosaurs and apexes are added, a stego should be able to inflict lethal bleed on a high tier to apex dino. As long as it's lethal bleed, it adds more reason to the clotting wounds mechanic. Stego killing a mid tier carni with 2-3 shots for outright damage sounds proper for a big game herbivore like it. high tier/above stego should outright killing it in 4-5 shots anywhere but the head. head should be a 2 shot on an apex and a one shot for mid tier. This would make stego a far more balanced big game risky herbivore.

Dryosaurus

somebody suggested a speed boost to the dryos dodge, and apart from that there isn't anything that comes to mind about this creature

Hypsilophodon

Hypsi is near perfect. it fits the role of small herbivore. There is a small bug where it's sounds will always sound like its right next to you regardless of distance, but that is about it.

[dry pawn]

Baby Stego shouldn't do bleed, it should be more like a club.
The spikes on the thagomizer aren't sharp.
It's really dumb that it can do bleed to a Utah and anything bigger.

[lavish tundra]

I feel that carno while it does feel that it is stronger, it’s actually that carno isn’t supposed to take out stegos and more of tenanto, but tenanto had nothing to do against 2+ carnos, so what I say is downsize tenanto so that it’s more of a Match for Utah’s and less food for carnos. Since carnos where cannibals irl

[spice lotus]

I think it would be a good idea to make sure that the scars do not hinder the players ability to hunt in the game for too long otherwise it becomes sitting simulator for hours and passive aggressive dinos. So in my opinion the scars should not take an extraordinary amount of time to heal or the health cap inflicted by these scars should not be severe for too long. This can be fixed by mechanics where being away from combat for a set amount of time increases healing or eating fatty foods/optimal foods for your specific species increase the scar healing. So, in conclusion i believe that yes this game should be beholden to realism but, not at the detriment of the players experience because i do not believe that players should have to sit down for hours because then the game slows down and no one wants a repeat of the Acros (legay) health-regen time.

[potent chasm]

Make juviniles have a partially unique playstyle, otherwise it's Bush Sitting Simulator

[hollow ridge]

Please buff tenanto damage while it grows up. Its pretty strong when its full adult however when its a juvi or sub adult it barely does any damage. A 60% tenanto only does 50 damage, allowing utahs to simply trade bites with it and kill it. If damage could grow a bit more even throughout its growth, tenos could defend themselves better while growing.

[misty oar]

Increasing juvie tenoto's attack power in the last patch seems like a really odd choice, as it does nothing to help it with the issues it faces.

Unless its attack and health stats are buffed up to absolutely outrageous levels it's never going to be fighting off the animals which are currently killing it. Speeding it up however would give it a good chance to dart into the bushes and escape predators like carno and utah (as long as it's not caught in the open).

For some reason both tenoto and dryo juveniles are proportionally much slower than their adult counterparts compared to other playables like carno, utah, and stego. This is making playing them as juvinile just an exercise in afk growth, as being spotted just means instant death as they're too slow to flee.

Juvie tenoto is only 1kph faster than juvie stego. And juvie dryo is slower than juvie stego! I'm not sure why these two animals have been given such bad juvie experiences, but it would make it much more fun to play them over their entire growth if they were given the same treatment as utah, stego, and carno juvies.

[fickle moss]

I would say that carno, utah and stego are to fast, they looks not realistic. Juv carno start looking much better after it got slowed by 30percents. So i think it would be better to make all dinos except juv dryo and juv teno slower. I mean adult dryo too, because overwise ai would be to fast for juvs to hunt them.

[lavish tundra]

Don't make players fear starvation this much to the point food is the only thing herbivores and carnivores have to look for. Starvation shouldn't kill you right off the bat, it should make stam regen slower, health regen slower, and then to the point where your dino starts dying eventually. But starvation shouldn't just kill you that fast, it doesn't do that irl with most animals either.

I have many more ideas for the starvation system but I couldn't write them all down since I'm a bit busy. A lot of people have suggested similar things, which is what prompted me to make this post.

[wicked gulch]

Give juvenile Dryos the ability to climb

[lavish tundra]

Let's talk about the interest shown by herbivores in finding and maintaining the food that nature gives them around them and how this will be done in the game.
Many herbivores are not stressed by the idea (I have to find something to eat, someone else will eat this amount of food for me, as if he is bothering me to get my food, I will get enough of this food to eat my little ones or the my herd)This is because it is not made for vegetarians, because the food in the game is very easy to find, because many vegetarians can only eat grass, which is enough for 20%.
In addition to the basic tactics of the game, there are some extra advantages that the players create with each other that you call (mix pack) with the result that this offers them comfort and a safe life in the game ..
How will this be solved?
It is very simple. In addition to having to enter the perk and diet mechanisms, the food provided to the herbivores in an area of ​​the paper must be counted in a certain number (eg the grass in this area must have 10000 food points along with 4 bushes)Which means for example that it feeds 2 big and 2 small stegoes until their young grow up, when some other herbivores come, they will have to decide if they want to accept them on their side or compete for their area.
In addition to competition, many herbivores will stop living in one place for food reasons. I know that grass only gives you (20%) but carnivores do not have this for NOW, so it could help to have a balance between it.

[lavish tundra]

I will say it again, Bleed is so incredibly undertuned, that actually nobody gives a F about it, and it's annoying. I get it, it gives you a stam regen/health regen debuff (Wich I didn't even noticed before somebody pointed out to me) and helps with tracking. Not that you couldn't track just by footprints, and also there are dinos wich wont/can't run away. The point is, it takes ages to actually die from blood loss. It's needs a significant amount of buff, so people will actually consider, to give a flying f*ck about one of the most important combat mechanic in the game since the day it got implemented.

[keen tree]

I think that even small meals should fill carnis up more. Right now it's just annoying spending all my time looking for meals and repeating. I just think that we need either more small Ai that's more plentiful or just some other change to hunger.

[novel sail]

Start balancing corpse food yield and balancing how much food carnivores need to fill their stomachs.

Let's say most dinosaurs can eat a quarter of their body weight in food every day. Carnos weigh 2 tons. They can fill their bellies with a maximum of 500kg of flesh.

Now, how about food yield? The average carcass yield around 65-75% edible meat and flesh in the wild. Let's be generous and say 75% of an edible carcass is flesh and organ meat while the rest is bone. A carnotaurus weighs two tons. That is 1500 kg of flesh, so why are 3 carnos unable to sustain off of a single carno body? Or why is a single carno unable to reasonably fill up on a full-grown Utahraptor?

Please, please, please be generous with food values when the gore update rolls out. 4500 kg Stegosaurus should be more than enough food for several packs of Utahs and Carnos to share, yet 3 carnos can polish it off no problem at the moment. Too many things are dying because either they require too much food to fill their bellies or corpses are not worth enough food.

We were told the weight of an animal would affect food yield, but it really does not feel that way at the moment.

[quick tendon]

Carnos should be able to knock over sub-adult stegs and smaller, tentos and other carnos when running into them from a sprint. I feel like the carno just needs that one additional ability to stand any chance against agro stegs. The hit box on the steg is also a little too wide which makes it hard when garding babies as a herd, you risk hitting babies half the time.

[nova trail]

Utah now doesnt have invulnerable bug unpouncing thats cool but now it has 1 shot kill by stego when unpounce and almost the same with carno. So there should be a solution. I see it as more distance to jump off the prey + ability to choose direction(by the camera direction) to do it safe.

[dense robin]

Another idea to the above - perhaps instead of invincibility frames after dropping off a pounced target, put in a brief reduction on damage? I'm not sure which is easier coding-wise, but I think most players were more frustrated on how they couldn't do any damage at all to a Utah after it's pounce had ended. I don't think it's fair (or fun) to have Utahs be one-shotted after they detach from a pounce, but they should be at risk for severe damage. This means packs will need to be well coordinated to effectively use pounces to take down larger prey - as each pack member runs the risk of being unable to continue the hunt after a pounce. Pouncing would become a high-risk, high-reward tactic for taking on larger targets.

[hasty gulch]

As a Carno, there is no way to buck off a Utah so you have to just sit and wait until your almost dead. And then it kills you. I might be wrong as I was only 60%

[marble canopy]

i just wanna see how many people agree or disagree just out of curiosity so give like a X or a checkmark for yes or no lol. i think lower teno's stamina use while using slam/kick, since u can be out of stamina within seconds while utah can just be enderpearlin around the map endlessly and do attack after attack after attack LOL

[dusky sigil]

Add a small time limit of 1 or 2 mins to chose the same dino again straight after death because if some carnos are hunting a stego at a spawn point a player constantly comes back as a hypsilophodon blinding the carnos making it unfair. I mean i think it is already hard enough to kill a stego and then to be blinded every 30 sec..

[hollow ridge]

Balance on evrima is in a very good spot as of now.
Only thing i would wish for is that utahs cant pounce directly onto other dinosaurs heads and be automaticly ajusted to the side.

[lavish tundra]

Put the grass is not unlimited the food points it has, than to give you 20%. This will make the herbivores who actively in the game.

[dawn tundra]

Dryo dodge could really use some iframes or some other incentive to use it such as speed boost for a few seconds after use. At the moment you're better off just running and juking than actually using it's built in mechanic. You either end up getting hit mid dodge and die anyway or by some miracle it works and all you've managed to accomplish is dodging 1 bite in exchange for a decent portion of stamina that will now give you less time to escape the threat chasing you, which are also all faster than you. Every other dino has an incentive or a reason to use their special attacks/abilities, and at the moment dryo just falls short.

[safe torrent]

Carno broadcast sorta feels like the sound is too late. If the sound started like half a second earlier I think it would line up better with the animation, especially the beginning where it inhales, but the animation where it takes a big breath is earlier than the sound doing the same.

[short nacelle]

I think getting oneshot is a horrible mechanic in a game like this, especially with all the lag.
If a stego hits a utah with a tail attack, instead of the utah instantly flopping over and dying, you should have a couple seconds to get out of danger and survive, however it should obviously take very long to recover, and you shouldn't have much time to get safe.

[lavish tundra]

Nerf locational damage Carno does to Tenoto's tail

With Teno being unable to escape against a Carno's speed, nor hide effectively due to its larger size
It should fair better as a competent fighting matchup against a Carno

The Carno's superior speed gives it much more comfort and options when encounters with the Teno counterpart.
The change would encourage the use of Teno's tail slam and kick being more of a ideal option against a rushing Carno. While the Carno has more of a responsibility of using its speed to bait and patiently wait for an opening from the Teno's attacks.

[elder canopy]

What are peoples thoughts on the Utah pounce having a negative effect if they miss?

Maybe an increased stam reduction, minor damage or a stun/off balance animation. At the moment Utahs can just fly at you 4 or 5 at a time with no real repercussion for missing.

I like the strength of the attack, but at the moment its low risk high reward. And for a dino that roams in large packs, its very difficult to defend if you can't run away.

[rocky estuary]

Potential pounce rework: The goal of which is to be more interactive for both the raptor and the pounced dinosaur.
In my head I imagine a balance bar that the raptor has to keep centred to to maximise damage and stay latched on. Conversely, the pounced dino has the opportunity; through bucking, to both reduce the damage dealt, and if done correctly and unpredictably, remove the raptor/s from its back.

Thoughts and feedback appreciated, I was heavily inspired by the horse breaking mechanic in Red Dead Redemption 2 which has you using visual cues to balance.

[tepid lantern]

Reduce Tenonto's growth time down to at least 1h45m from the current 2h (although I'd like 1h30m, but that might be a bit too far). Maia was 1h45m in legacy and was a mid tier, meanwhile Tenonto is small tier and takes longer to grow than Maia did. Plus, I feel like a shorter growth could help make Tenonto a little more viable since he's still in a tight spot right now and still hard in general to survive as.

[lucid garden]

so, i was a full adult carno, surprise attacked by a fresh spawn hatchling stego, killed it, tried to wallow, and emidiately attacked again by another fresh spawn stego, killed it aswell, then emediately died afterwards, so, maybe lower the attack power of stego hatchlings? i dont know, im just confused how a tiny lil thing killed an almoast full adult carno so easily.

[safe torrent]

Really loving the feel of most Evrima fights and combat. Despite everything turning in place, it makes the battle a lot more skill based than legacy, now that it's not about turn radius. Learning and mastering combat feels a bit more rewarding. Either way, I have a couple of issues.

1️⃣ Stego's sideways attack, the one that happens when you look straight to the side, is way too fast. You can spam it really easily and do insane damage. The animation cuts off at the end and the tail returns to place in about a tenth of a second.

Lastly, and honestly the thing that MUST be fixed, is bleed. Bleed is very non-threatening. I love the blood pool system but, until your blood pool gets low, there is nothing to worry about. Those 5 gaping wounds that Carno just gave you? Nothing. If you roll in some mud it's less than nothing. Bleeding things out as either predatory animal in the game right now is pointless.

2️⃣ My first suggestion for fixing this is some sort of constant stat subtraction while bleeding, corresponding to the amount of blood you have left. For example, while bleeding, your stamina regenerates X amount slower and stamina costs for abilities are multiplied by X for every X percent of blood you have left. This means that bleeding something out may not outright kill it for a while, but it will seriously aid you in the fight.

3️⃣ My last suggestion for bleed is simply put, less blood. Blood pools last way too long and barely go down. Make them smaller.

4️⃣ Wallowing in mud stops the blood pool from going down, and would cut any debuffs like from suggestion 2 in half during it's duration. However, when you attack someone who is on the ground (after wallowing for a couple seconds), they shouldn't get knocked out of the animation from any damage. This makes it impossible to punish people for wallowing at the wrong time in a fight, since if they are attacked, they can instantly fight back despite currently laying on the ground.

[unique lark]

I have a suggestion that will probably make herbivore players angry but hey its honestly a real life thing so here goes - carnivores are born learning to hunt and survive. They exercise hone their skills and make it to adult hood via their well trained parents. Herbivores do NOT grow up learning to fight. They learn to run and they learn to graze. Even ones with defenses (such as deer, antelope, hell even some of the larger) creatures lile elephants) can be taken down by a pack of carnivores. Why? Cause herbivores ARE NOT born learning how to fight and guess what- one of the reasons packs of animals can take big creatures down is because THEY TIRE OUT. Even a creature in its prime can be by the right pack. How to remedy this and balance that hunting out? Make animals tire out and require actual rest. If you keep attack you lose more hunger because you're burning calories. Carnivores should have less hunger consumption compared to herbivores because they are fit and hone their skills for hunting and fighting. I have encountered many spam attacking stegos who killed me simply because i HAD to sit to heal or die. Sorry to say i am pretty sure one of the ways carnivores hunted those large creatures was waiting and being smart enough they would tire out and not be able to fight. If hunger is consumed more when attacking people might think twice about constantly going in to attack others.

[feral hedge]

Resubmitting: Grazing Revisited

Currently, the chosen way to balance Grazing is to prevent herbivores from gaining more than 20% of their hunger (forgive me if that's incorrect). It's a last resort that encourages you to instead find bushes. Not bad, but I think we can do better. We can instead create a meta that nurtures constantion motion across the map, gives competition in between herbivores, and really spruce up the ecosystem with interesting encounters.

For a more detailed explanation of how to do this : https://steamcommunity.com/app/376210/discussions/14/5188663423649268984/

To break it down here:

1-Assign Nodes on the map that herbivores can graze at when in range, and then set a numeric value for the amount of grazeable food they're worth.

2-Whenever a herbivore grazes at these nodes, the amount of food decreases. When that value reaches 0, no herbivore can Graze in that area until it regenerates food over time.

3-When Grazing at one Node, also reduces the value of food in neighboring nodes. A Herbivore should get half of its food from the Node it's grazing in, while the other half should come from an accumulation of the sister nodes connected to it.

4-Remove the 20% limit to Grazing. In the future, you will no longer need to be so heavy handed because you will have the Diet System. Berry Bushes will still remain very relevant in this idea.

5-Give visual ques for bountiful land and barren land to both Herbivores AND Carnivores. I would suggest just making it so that our Scent Compass changes its shade of color, but you could mess with the grass texture.

There's alot this system could offer. Hotspots will naturally rotate around the map because players will be forced to migrate. Group Size will become more controlled and even personal as Herbivores are incentivized to protect their food sources from rival herds and over population.

Thank You for your time and feel free to talk, ask, or suggest anything you think I missed in the discussion.

[nova trail]

Utah now is a food for carnos. Pounce stuck bug is still there. Happens to me even more often then before in update 2.0. I think the invulnirability of pouncing off the prey and pounce fail animation should have been fixed after teleports fixes and pounce stuck bug is not a problem anymore otherwise utah is a buggy prey for everyone as its now.

[plucky sequoia]

I remember that in the first version of update 2 utha when he used pounce on a carnotaurus up to 55% he dropped it on the ground I want it to come back because I already saw utha dying from carnotaurus sub very easy

remembering: I don't know if you got it or it's a bug

I'm sorry for the English mistakes

[grand scarab]

I have been out of the loop but, especially with the grazing ability in the game, a system like this is almost a must.

[molten coral]

Audio balancing for waterfalls, they are insanely loud. To the point I have to turn down the whole game if I'm growing/hanging out near one.
Or at least create a seperate slider for water/environment sound effects.

[shy ocean]

My suggestion is reduced smelling for juvies
The more youre growth - the sooner you gets full ability to sense
But mb its to lame.

[feral hedge]

Biomes For Juvies.

Any chance you create areas that only small body creatures to inhabit. For instance, Hollow Logs.

You could also take the randomly placed Boulders and turn them into small caves by rearranging the asset to have them leaning on each others.

[robust marlin]

Agreed, I was thinking something similar the other day. There's really no way for small juvie animals of any species to adequately hide other than being difficult to spot in foilage, but any patient large predator willing to sniff them out means they're nothing more than a walking snack.

Juvies have no alternatives to hiding. Adult Utahs can jump onto rocks and such to avoid big predators like Carno or other Utahs (or just aggressive herbis), but babies just have to squat in a bush on ground level and hope nothing finds them (and something usually finds them). They also have no chance of running, and at the moment there's no nesting/parenting system that gives juvies guaranteed protection.

They should have hollows and small caves and other such places where they can hunker down in relative safety from big dinos. Food and water needs will eventually drive them out of hiding anyway, so its not as though they can just wait there forever.

Additionally, hiding places will only really protect them from LARGE dinos, not other small dinos who can also fit (juvie utahs and carnos), so for some there is still a risk of other juvies, and patient older carnis can always just wait for juvies to emerge from hiding places or work together to flush prey out, leading to more dynamic encounters that require more thought/problem-solving (hidey holes should probably have multiple entrances though, so juvies still have a reasonable chance at escape when leaving their hiding place).

At the moment, there's no real strategy or tools to surviving to adulthood against larger dinos other than "pick a god and pray", which just makes playing juvies a miserable experience instead of a fun one, and most of us are spending 80% of our playtime as juvies or sub adult since we never survive past that.

Juvies simply having a bolt-hole to hide in would solve a great many problems with no need for complicated balancing.

[dry patrol]

I know this is still a ways off, but I think Suchos, and Crocs probably, should get higher utility in water than just being able to swim longer. They shouldn't have stamina deplete while hovering on the surface, and should be able to "sprint" or at least get a short burst of speed in water maybe on a higher cooldown. Only comparing it to Legacy, where ambushing prey from water is difficult due to things just getting up and trouncing away before you even close half the gap.

[short nacelle]

Nerf bucking, make it drain stamina
Also make it easier to see if you're actually buckling or not

[sudden oak]

Carnos should not swim faster than Tenontos
I have died so many times while in swamp, the natural biome for Tenontos, because a Carno swims faster than a four-legged creature. I know The Isle isn't "realistic" per say, but the fact that a two legged creature that should technically have a harder time swimming can beat something partially designed for doing so is a bit off-putting. If Carno can swim that fast, why can't Utah with it's hands and feet? It's unfair to that dino, too.
Just an idea I guess.

Someone helped confirm that Tenonto does swim faster than Carno and Utah. I think it's just a lag issue!

[warped bone]

please fix utah hitbox while pouncing, over half my tenonto attacks failed while the utah was pouncing and instead of knocking the utah down the utah was just attached to my body without repercussion

[novel sail]

Eventually, I would love to see Utahs automatically get punished for pouncing at the wrong angles like we saw with Trike, where it gores the utah.

Tenonto, maia, para, anything that 'boxes' or slaps: If you see a Utah attacking from the front, hold click to box it to the ground as a smack down or flick your camera while releasing the click to smack it to the side.

Carno, Pachyrhino, avaceratops, anything with blunt horns on its head or anything that charges and headbutts: if a Utah pounces from the front, hold click and flick your camera up or to the side to headbutt and fling the utah in whichever direction you choose. BONK!

Anything with a long and flexible tail: if a Utah pounces from behind, hold click to use your tail attack and flick your cursor to fling it in whichever direction you choose to fling the Utah. If your tail has spikes, shake your camera while holding your tail attack to shake the dead Utah off.

Anything with a long neck or large head: hold click and flick your cursor down to shove your head down and slam dunk the utah onto the ground (think of Littlefoot's mother when she caught an egg-stealer stealing Littlefoot's egg) to follow up with a stomp or hold click and flick your cursor in a direction to bash your head on its side and fling it. If you are large enough, you can pick the utah up with your teeth as a grab by holding click and fling it, but Utah can probably claw and bite your face while you aim your fling.

Anything with long horns or long claws from the front: hold click to skewer, then flick the camera to shake it off. The end.

Anything massive with a large mouth (Rex, Giga, Acro, Spino): if a Utah attacks from the front, hold click to chomp and grab onto the Utah, shake your camera to rip it to pieces (utah can resist by clawing and biting faces) or flick your camera while releasing click to throw it (or swallow it if it is dead). Slam it at a tree for bonus style points.

[void orbit]

This is p neat but to add to this suggestion.. no camera flicking plz. Lil ol thing called motion sickness, plus that would prolly make for some clunky gameplay I think

Would be cool if it was something like timing it right

• If a utah goes to pounce you at the wrong angle and you press ur attack button you knock it down. Maybe there can be a unique attack animation for the knockdown similar to above suggestion
• If the utah pounces you at the wrong angle and you dont press any button, the utah doesn't get knocked down but it also doesn't successfully pounce you

[oak kernel]

Bleed suggestion: Don't make bleed go from 100% to 0% instantly with wallowing, Instead make it so that there are different "levels" of bleed depending on what you are currently doing.
While covered in mud and sprinting= 50% of regular bleed severity
While covered and trotting= 75% resistance or 25% of bleed severity
While covered and walking /standing/crouching= 90% resistance or 10% of bleed severity.
While covered and resting/sleeping= 100% resistance or full bleed immunity.

[red ibex]

To make bleed actually dangerous, bring in a similar way to how it decreases health in legacy. But don’t make it as good as in legacy, it’s complete utter ass how great bleed was in legacy. Bite something once and keep it on it’s toes, and it flopped over. Instead, have in evrima yes decrease health but I’d say you only lose health from it when running or trotting, and at a smaller rate than in legacy. Actually gives reason for the z walk to exist.

[hollow ridge]

Dont make carnos able to bite while stunned by a teno tail slam. Whats the point of stunning a carno if it can still just attack you?

[novel sail]

Give Carno an actual stunned animation please. I often find my Carno standing around in an idle animation like a fucking dumbass.

[lavish tundra]

fruits and plants appears on herbivores mouths while eating

hitting trees while running gives damage and marks on it, so carnivores can localizate you.

different tree marks on trees for each dino. (like pachy, carno and etc)

deinoshucus climb rocks and trees to get dinos, but it wastes a lot of stamina.

[pallid notch]

Instead of having bleed eat away at health like other suggestions, I think the effects of bleeding should just be increased. I feel like you should lose blood faster, and stamina should be harder to regain and maintain. But not to the point where bleed is an automatic death sentence. Balance is key.

[hollow crane]

Having big issues with not enough bushes and plants for herbies I want to explore every corner of the map but I cant as plants and grass don't give enough food to do so , also not enough remote water areas eg puddles or something. Can grazing go up to 50% of food please and red flower bushes provide 100% food to larger herbs as only give a about 40% to a stego right now. Simply herbs desperately need better amounts of food.

[pallid notch]

remove the ability for utahs to pounce dinosaurs that are sprinting. Not only is this OP, it's not exactly physically realistic... Doing this also promotes Utahs to stalk their prey. It's called "pounce" and not grapple for a reason.

Edit: To actually make pouncing a little bit trickier and more of a skill, I suggest that Utahs should not teleport to the back of an dino once you pounce. You should actually aim for the back instead of the front or behind the dino.

[still goblet]

stego juvies do way too much damage

[shrewd marsh]

I swear the hatchies/juvs are way too fast. Is it everyday you see an newborn dinosaur running faster than light? They're supposed to be vulnerable, slow and hiding and then emerging as strong adults. I hope, when nesting update comes out, you have to spawn (not nested) as a juv or there's no point of spawning as a hatch in a nest if you already spawn as an hatch (I know, free group and mom). Pleaasee, make it like the good ol' days.

~make juvs and hatches slow make em slow cha cha~

ALSO, is it just me or is the new turning way too op? Maybe you can turn in place only via holding alt like the old days. But with these animations. Like, actually, carno and utah are way too op with this turning.

Just my opinions. Put in the red X if you feel so.

Edit: Fixed a typo.

[green oasis]

faster utah, he should be faster than carno, that would be realistic

[sinful parcel]

Reduce the thirst drain on stego, it drains so quickly there’s no point of going away from a river unless you need food

[still holly]

One suggestion that would add more playability to carnivores and keep them in check on servers would be adding the rex or spino something large but slow to cull them instead of having the two fastest carnos in the game imo but i was surprised stego came out before trike so who knows

[haughty heart]

make the carno do a little bit less damage like 250 or 300 because i often find myself 2 shotted as a utah within 5 seconds and its a little op

[barren field]

Let the utah pounce earlier in his growth stage, AI dryo are really a pain in the *** to kill before adult, they are too tough and fast.
I like the idea of being a scavenger when young, but without gore/carcasse... meh

[sweet rivet]

Lets utah pounce at sub adult but pounce would be bad damage and more stam waste or let it pounce as soon as it reaches adult

[lavish tundra]

Teno has a tail so fucking muscular that it’s probably like half its weight. It should be a fucking speedboat in water goddammit.

Also I’ve checked on how deep Tenontosaurus goes before going fully swimming in water and it’s not more than 2 feet. 2 feet and it is already swimming as if it couldn’t just stand in its hind legs perfectly?

Please consider giving tenonto the ability to stand in its hind legs and reach AT LEAST like 4 feet deep in the water without having to swim, and also just better aquatic locomotion overall when Update 3 comes out.

WATER STANCE SUGGESTION: #general-feedback message

[green oasis]

ping optimization, after the last patch in Poland (I live there) the ping has broken and it's not that my internet is weak because it worked well before, my friend also broke, and the fps broke after the last patch because in places where I had 100 now I am 30

[barren field]

When pouncing as a utah on dino, if it enter water, make the utah autodismount without falling like you've hit a wall/tree please. That doesn't feel right to get killed like that

[nova trail]

Cannibal dinos should be colored white melonism or something like that so others would know that. As more same specie were killed by cannibal as more white he becomes

[hollow ridge]

Make sub-deinos faster and more agile than Adult-deinos similar to rexes. When update 3 comes out pretty much everyone will be playing deino, and people will certainly kill eachother. If the adults are simply faster and stronger it would make it extremely hard to grow a deino. Making subs faster and more agile would also make them more viable.

[lavish tundra]

^ I agree with that completely. Modern day crocodiles are the same exact way. The smaller thinner adults and juvis are far faster and more maneuverable than the much larger bulkier adults

[stable leaf]

Ambushmechanic for deinosuchus (and maybe other dinos too)
we know that this game is no simulation or scientifically correct material also the engine isn't really made to really enable adding everything perfectly. So what I suggest was already made in scum - if you had your full gear equipped with camo items you rendered later for others.
since we still face the problem of rendering everyone further than the foliage it's supposed to be hidden in. Imo it would be cool if special abilities or the species base ability of stealth every dino has prevents other players from spotting you from miles away. For example deino: it's huge if fully grown - if the swamp water isnt full of logs, rocks, plants and stuff you as prey will learn how to spot deino eyes in the water and everyone can avoid it easily. What if you don't render for let's say 5 seconds by activating your stealth ability?
Imo it should only work in water, only couple seconds to not be op and have a reasonable distance for players where it just does render deinos closeby even if they use their ability.

Imo other dinos could use this mechanic too, it's easy to find utahs by looking far away where foliage doesn't render. I guess servers having to handle less render distance on most smaller dinos would probably also help some performance issues maybe? Let certain dinos render later for players if they choose certain sets of colors (everything not flashy/bright)
or have it only render closer to prey if it is sneaking all the way to it, or set certain dino sizes to a set distance that's less than now (i see hypsis so far away.. idk..
Just a slight suggestion, it works well in scum so that's all. thanks for reading, have a great day!

[stuck wraith]

Give Utahs a lock on mechanic, like a way for them to aim their pounce, sort of like the Hypies aiming mechanic for its spit. But it should only work on creatures that are standing still or moving slowly/walking.

[steel umbra]

Its probably been said already, but i think the time it takes for your food to drop should be extented a little. Atleast when update #5 drops with the 'diet' system. Its gonna make it harder to find food and even in the games current state i find it mildly stressful how fast you get hungry

[lavish tundra]

A way to balance Troodon when fighting at night is that when you start to activate and produce more and more of your venom, with each bite some parts of your skin start to display a very mild glow like P. rangei geckos.

So you would need to choose your bites wisely and not just deliver venom injections without a counter effect.

Side note: __ Pachydactylus rangei or Namib sand gecko glows neon colors with the moonlight; therefore if there is no moonlight (like in a New Moon), Troodons wouldn’t encounter this side effect being the strongest when the night is pitch dark__. See also this suggestion about the moon cycle #general-feedback message

[safe garnet]

3 hours would be NOT GOOD
Especially how powerful they get

Here

4-5 hours to grow deino

[lavish tundra]

improve tenonto's stamina. for a leggy horse analogue it has poor stamina and the babies are too slow. tenonto needs some love and I feel like we've been neglecting it a bit

also increase the rate that carno and utah go hungry. you can sit out most of the game without eating anything and I don't think it makes sense for carnivores of that size. it would make gameplay more developed and difficult, I think, if we had to constantly eat things. there would be fewer carnivores if playing as carnivore was harder

[lavish tundra]

Remove the cooldown on the Utah bite
I know it's supposed to be a pack animal that relies on teamwork. But with it having lower hp, and lower damage than most of it's current and future combative rivals in the roster
It seems counter intuitive to punish a single player's precision when mechanics like alt turn/aoe attacks are already implemented.
With it having a slower bite than a Carno who does significantly more damage. Utah's attack being 20-30% slower, doing less bleed. It seems to be an overkill solution to an existing issue. The tailriding days are already over, so it would be fair if they both had at least the same attack speed. The Utah's lower hp and the alt turn mechanic already punishes bad positioning. So why punish precise positioning and exploited baits with an artificial cooldown?

[vast wadi]

make juvi tenos(and dryos) faster.

[safe torrent]

Hatchling dryo sounds are all the same.. I'm hoping this is unfinished and sounds will be added instead of making hatchings only have one sound like legacy. It's especially important since now everyone spawns as a hatchling that we don't restart this trend.

[red ibex]

5 to 6 hours for a 100% deinosuchus, its extremely powerful, would be shorter than apex growth times, still longer than their prey items and it would be challenging to grow one. Every creature should have a challenging life cycle, which i feel they do. (Except for utah)

[lavish tundra]

I heard something about making Deino 24 hours to grow, I really fucking hope that's not true because 24 hours in real life is too excessive. If it becomes adult at like maybe 5-6 hours in I think that'd be fine, and then it kept growing like a real Croc. But please god don't make it 24 damn hours. Go with what WegDhass said above.

Although I think if it did reach adult at 5-6 hours, that will still cause issues with balance.

[haughty heart]

For balances sake make pteras bite do less than 50 dmg. the fack that its health pool is bigger than a dryos is ridicilous. it could probably fight a dryo on land which is crazy. I know dryo is a chicken nugget but ptera is very small so it would be completely crazy. Also as seen in Amar0ks stream it's flight will probs be about 58km/h so it could easily hunt and kill dryos before they get to a jungle. Also give deino a tailswipe cause its healthpool will be 3000 and carnos is 2500 so I can see a carno tailriding a deino without being scared to get 1 shotted like a utah. Thats all.

[lavish tundra]

Going off the comment above iv deinos health pool is only 3000, then please make it bigger. Health should correlate to weight.

[full lantern]

stego rn is in a bad spot, it gets destroyed by smalls and mid tiers such as utahs or carnos. Much of this is due to the new bleed system, and pounce. I suggest pounce has some much needed tweaks(examples, you need to focus while pouncing so you dont fall off, similar to saurians system, utahs shouldnt be able to pounce where another utah is already pouncing.) And bleed atm is nothing more than a nuisance afterthought, So i suggest making it more lethal.

[vivid grove]

When ptera goes in to the water , he needs some time to dry the water from its wings to be able to fly again 🙂 Would be super hard for ptera's that way cause they would have to be on ground waiting and it will cause them danger from other dinos ^^

[robust marlin]

Honestly one of my biggest peeves when it comes to hunting as any carnivore dino is the fact that my footprints / scent trail is nearly indistinguishable from that of other dinos unless I look and scrutinize real hard, which is counterproductive to tracking prey.

Evolutionarily, animals and even humans are desensitized to any overly familiar smell we're exposed to for any great length of time, especially our own stink, specifically so that we can pick up on smelling something new or unfamiliar. For both predators and prey, this is essential.

I'm not saying get rid of the ability to see our own footprints, but I'd really like to see our own footprints be a different color than those of other dinos, to the benefit of both predators and prey. Maybe keep herbivore footprints yellow as they already are, predator footprints red/black, and your own footprint regardless of herb/carni purple/violet or some such.

I feel it only makes sense we should be able to discern SOMETHING about the dino that left the footprints behind by smell, and not just by shape, since most wild animal species take a lot of their information more by scent than by visual.

Super frustrating if I'm trying to track prey only to find out after 5 minutes I've just been following my own footprints in circles and my prey is long gone somewhere else.

We have mud wallowing as a natural counterplay to scent tracking, so giving dinos a little more scent information about exactly what we're tracking when we DO smell something shouldn't be a game-breaker.

Not to mention if we distinguish predator and prey tracks, it can help herbis decide whether they should seek out and group with other nearby dinos or get the heck outta dodge.

[jagged cape]

^ i'd do carnivore footprints as orange. red scent is supposed to mean blood and gore, and black doesn't stand out very well

[lavish tundra]

Let AI Dryo dodge in the right moment if you were to pounce it as a Utah or lunge it as a Deino

[feral hedge]

Resubmitting: Grazing Revisited

Currently, the chosen way to balance Grazing is to prevent herbivores from gaining more than 20% of their hunger (forgive me if that's incorrect). It's a last resort that encourages you to instead find bushes. Not bad, but I think we can do better. We can instead create a meta that nurtures constant motion across the map, gives competition in between herbivores, and really spruce up the ecosystem with interesting encounters.

For a more detailed explanation of how to do this : https://steamcommunity.com/app/376210/discussions/14/5188663423649268984/

To break it down here:

1-Assign Nodes on the map that herbivores can graze at when in range, and then set a numeric value for the amount of grazeable food they're worth.

2-Whenever a herbivore grazes at these nodes, the amount of food decreases. When that value reaches 0, no herbivore can Graze in that area until it regenerates food over time.

3-When Grazing at one Node, also reduces the value of food in neighboring nodes. A Herbivore should get half of its food from the Node it's grazing in, while the other half should come from an accumulation of the sister nodes connected to it.

4-Remove the 20% limit to Grazing. In the future, you will no longer need to be so heavy handed because you will have the Diet System. Berry Bushes will still remain very relevant in this idea.

5-Give visual ques for bountiful land and barren land to both Herbivores AND Carnivores. I would suggest just making it so that our Scent Compass changes its shade of color, but you could mess with the grass texture.

There's alot this system could offer. Hotspots will naturally rotate around the map because players will be forced to migrate. Group Size will become more controlled and even personal as Herbivores are incentivized to protect their food sources from rival herds and over population.

Thank You for your time and feel free to talk, ask, or suggest anything you think I missed in the discussion.

[barren field]

Add a "stamina cooldown" for the utah pounce.
If a utah pounce again during that cooldown (e.g 10s), the pounce will still work but the stamina drain will be GREATLY increased and the damage/bleed decreased as well (i insist on the GREATLY, it will be much more worse than chain jumping), punishing the spam of it.
Utahraptor should try to use his ability with a little bit a thinking and aiming, not clic 'til it works. BUT if he want to take that risk its still possible, the problem is that he'll probably won't get enough stamina to flee if it don't work.
What are your thought on that ?

[heady copper]

Add a system where medium to large carnivores can aim the camera behind them to grab, bite and throw off Utah’s who didn’t think hard enough about where to pounce it

[dense robin]

With extension to this - IF we go for the "grass nodes" thing, it could be visually indicated by making the grass in the area shorter and more yellow in color. Not only does this tell herbivores that their food source is getting low, but it further encourages movement, as there will no longer be the protection of long grass to hide the smaller herbivores from predators.

As well, instead of having "sister nodes", I'd just make grass nodes relatively large, with a large amount of "food points" to deplete. The closer to 0% food points remaining, the shorter and more yellow the grass in that area gets. It would be easiest to make the nodes procedural, but I'd encourage doing it manually to have the most aesthetically pleasing layout for "territories" of grazing land.

[barren field]

Can the carno acceleration can be check ? Cause it can stop his sprint and re accelerate almost instantly. Making his weak slow turning radius inexistant.
+I find the Bite hitbox of the carno really big or maybe its just lag

[naive pulsar]

making food from 100% to 81% for herbivores drain quickly but boost your growth. this would make less of your gameplay in a bush, give more reasons to keep it up, and make growing herds migrate more often

[lavish tundra]

Fresh spawn Tenonto's camera field of view would be perfect for Hypsi and for juvenile Dryosaurus. I'd say Hypsi needs even two more wheel scrolls and Dryo maybe one more overall.

[potent chasm]

The carni acceleration is fine. In fact it’s totally accurate to carno. Just make it take a long time to slow down, and if it tries to turn while slowing down, it’ll trip.

[hollow oasis]

Utah's new acceleration is horrible, please revert the change. EDIT: because it was only one sentence. Utah is supposed to be fast and nimble, it doesn't make sense for it to have same/worse acceleration than Teno which is a quadrupedal herbivore. Why was it even changed in the first place? It's pointless. Personally the new acceleration ruined the Utah gameplay heavily for me. You can't kite carnos as effectively as before, which again doesn't make sense cuz utahs were supposed to do that. Also if you only play carno, please stay away from this post as you probably won't look at that case fairly.

[naive pulsar]

dont make groups limited to 6, all it does is get in the way, because this game is already balanced around numbers. more dinos = more food. no food = dino dies

[vast wadi]

Revert utah's acceleration. Utah is supposed to take on larger dinos and his new acceleration makes him unable to do that, since he's not nimble anymore. That coupled with the fact that desync wasn't fixed makes utah extremely weak against larger dinos

[fringe mango]

Make it so a group of utahs/carnos can all drag a body together. Body dragging is pretty slow so it would be helpful if more than one utah or carno is able to drag a body in order to drag it faster.

[shrewd rain]

There is too much meat supply from AI, you can easily feed an adult Carnotaurus without any player interaction. Which makes it really easy to grow them on average (you can get unlucky but many if not most players do not) and really just floods the servers with big carnivores. There are multiple ways to change that (AI that is hard to catch, less AI, smaller AI etc.).

[median ravine]

PLEASE change Utah acceleration back, they are already in a poor place right now with de-sync still (and always?) being a thing. They're the weakest carni right now and I know they're not supposed to contend with a carno but already cant outrun them and now with the slower acceleration we cant out manoeuvre them either, once a carno is on your 6 their big long body and neck loom over you no matter how you run away they catch you unless the player has slower responses or de-sync happens. I feel like they should have a bigger stamina pool also. I know carno's are your boys right now but you need to show Utah alittle love.

[lavish tundra]

speed up utah, but... hear me out here, more stam cost on the pounce

[lavish tundra]

Make Utah’s pounce do more bleeding than all out dps 😎

[lavish tundra]

Pouncing already gives a lot of advantages for it to have that much bleed. And even though bucking did help a lot I still think that pouncing should be bleed based and more of a wearing off your prey; consider that you have already a guarantee that the animal you’re pouncing is gonna do absolutely no damage while you’re pouncing it, making it do raw damage makes no sense.

Maybe it should cost less stam after it’s been switched from raw damage to bleed based?

[safe torrent]

1: Bleed needs to increase stamina costs depending on how low your blood pool is.

2: While you have a wound opened, moving with trot or sprint would do raw damage (based on weight, intensity of wound, and how close to healing it is) Sprinting would do more than trotting, Z walk would do no damage, standing still would heal wounds slightly faster than normal, and sitting heals it a fair bit faster.

Currently bleed is barely a threat in most fights, and it does nothing to aid your efforts during a fight. Both of these changes will make loss of blood mean something, instead of just having to do a little extra healing after the fight is over. If you only like one of those, just react with that number!

[pallid notch]

Increase the stomach and water content levels of your dinosaur after update #5. Doing this will make it easier to travel long distances and explore the map while finding the desired food and territory/biome that best fits your dinosaur.

[median ravine]

lower the banks of the rivers, half the time you cant climb out 🙂

[heady copper]

Make some rivers shallower and therefore clearer, but make some deeper and darker. This allows creatures to avoid aquatic predators via where they settle/nest, but also allows the aquatic predators to thrive in areas like the swamp

[jagged cape]

heres some feedback, feedback. don't put suggestions that aren't relevant to game balance in here just so they'll be read by QA

[barren field]

Pouncing a dinos should (imo) result in a decrease in speed in relation with the weight of both party. Atm carno that get pounce run at full speed like they don't give f*. Making them not using bucking.
In conclusion, more pouncers on the dino=debuff of speed.

[sudden oak]

Biting in the water should do less damage or a significant stamina penalty (if you're not an aquatic or semi-aquatic dinosaur). Right now, I think it does the same damage as if you were being bit on land. Currently, it punishes things that are meant to use water, such as Teno. Trying to go into the water while being chased by Carnos means you'll take a good amount of damage from tail bites before being able to swim away from their jaws. Realistically, things not meant to be in water are usually more preoccupied with staying afloat rather than dealing a lot of bite damage, though I understand this is a fantasy game.
Just an idea. I'm open to better ideas

[bright plinth]

so since it appears that you will be adding a pteranodon i think a two to three hour growth time would be a good ammount of time, now if the pt is very powerful i would suggest probably around a four hour growth time, 5-6 would be way to much, i also think it would be a good idea to make it so a pt can pick up juvies and carry them to a different location(to kill them) thats all the ideas i have for now 😄

[full lantern]

Even though deino isn’t ingame yet, I feel I need to say this.

Currently as seen in streams deino can look outside of the water without peeking up, this makes it much more deadly, at the cost of being much more OP than it should be. I suggest that you can only look outside of water as deino if

1. you get out of the water
2. you pop your head out of water
   3)if you can already see something outside of water without moving your camera up.

[jaunty garden]

Stegosaurus should be balanced well against deino on land. On water it is already obvious that deino can bite it to death easy as it swims very slow. On land however stego needs to be an effective defensive herbi that can put deino in check. Deino should be wary of full grown stego and not just run towards it. Stego should have the upper hand and enough impaling force to kill a deino on land.

[vast wadi]

To add onto that, a good damage number for stego would be 1500. In amar0k's stream he is shown 5 shotting a stego, so with 1500 damage stego could still 2 shot carnos while 4-shotting deinos if the deino tries to fight on land, meaning the stego would have the upper hand without being fodder for deino

[lavish tundra]

Three things need to change:
Pounce needs a rework
Carno's 180 spins need to change
Drifts are too tight at maximum Carni's speed

Think about it, Allo's are just as likely, if not more compared to Carno. To do these really ridiculous agile spins while moving at maximum possible speeds. This leaves Herbi's little chance to juke or outrun predators when chased. Considering their HP already, with long grass or trees being its only defense mechanism.
Tenoto already set a good example of what larger animals should move like. The deceleration from moving at forward top speeds to a full stop should be increased, while still giving that same agility if you happen to move at a slower more precise speed.

[ivory bay]

Some food for thought in how to balance out the Utahraptor and specifically its pounce, as it seems to be a bit too good at least in certain specific situations:

I'm not arguing to take away Utahs damage from pounce. It should be capable of dishing out the serious damage it does now in my opinion, however I think it's currently too much of a low risk-high reward skill. I'm merely suggesting that either:
a/ if Utah misses the pounce it actually gets punished for that by having a moment of recovery after it catapulted its whole body into the air, while missing its target or at least loses out on its speed and has to accelerate again.
b/ Pounce's damage ramps up with time so as to make it impossible for Utahs to burst targets down with the initial damage of the pounce. This would make bucking actually work as a countermeasure for pounce. As it is if you start bucking Utah is absolutely free to disengage the pounce immediately, saving its stamina. This way you either sacrifice the stamina to deal the damage or you don't get to deal damage. Do note that this would require some serious balancing work on the part of QA so as to get it right as you'd need to make a formula that would outline how quickly the damage ramps up.

Those are just general ideas, feel free to chime in with your own suggestions in the discussion.

[dense nest]

I know that we haven't even received update #3 yet, but considering how long it takes for new systems to be implemented into the game I thought it would be a good time to suggest some mechanics for update #5 regarding the ceratosaurus. Currently, it seems like the devs are going for a scavenger type dinosaur, which seems alright but flawed. Scavengers like vultures or jackals are typically small and quick little animals that can quickly get into tight situation, steal food, and get out. This mechanic would fit pterandon or trodon but not a medium sized therapod such as ceratosaurus. INSTEAD, cera should be an oppourtunist/survivalist dino. One that can easily muscle its way into situations and steal a kill. However, at least in the legacy branch of the game, cera gets its butt kicked by everything very easily and cannot stay in a fight for very long. I would hate to see a repeat of this in evrima because cera has so much potential. Cera should be about as a fast as it currently is in legacy and have less health than carno. However, it should have a stronger bite, damage resitance because of its thick skin which will allow it to fight for longer, and a special ability of being able to violently grab its oppnent and either trip it or even throw it if it is small. For instance, if three utahs stroll up on a cera and one pounces on it, the cera should be able to shake it off, grab it and push it away from it. This would make cera the ultimate brawler dinosaur. The drawback would be that cera is not as effective in hunting because it is slower than most other carnivores (Not including allo or apexes) and can either form groups of two or no groups of all. It would be more of a lone wolf, one that can manage to steal other dinos kills and defend itself easily from attacks.

[astral lake]

Like Utahs that bounce off and fall when they miss a pounce and hit a rock Carnos should selfstun for a short time when charging into trees/stones/enviroment
all in all, punish missed mechanics so they are not as spammable

[marsh skiff]

Small but still warranted feedback: personally, I think the run on the young Dienosuchus should be made considerably faster, given at such small sizes, most crocidillians when young are capable of surprisingly huge bursts of speed due to not having the same weight dragging them down as the adults do. It'd make growing and playing as younger Dieno's more fun as well and give options of escape for them.

[clever solar]

Stego should still be able to move it's tail and attack in water. The movement should be more limited, maybe a slowed animation. But it makes no sense that a Stego can be tail ridden to death in the water.

Especially in the deino lunging demo, stego should still be able to swing it's tail when being attacked by deino. The trade of blows should make it a risk to hunt stegs, leaving only the healthiest, fully grown Deinos able to take down stegos.

[spark stirrup]

Played Utah for the first little bit after the recent hotfix and the acceleration time it has doesnt feel right, I feel it doesn't allow the Utah to be as nimble as it should be, especially when compared to the Carno and Teno. I feel how the Utahs acceleration was previously was actually perfect so I'd say speed up the Utah acceleration/revert back to what it was

[lavish tundra]

Trex "heal" animation needs to be sped up and fixed. A dilo can just wait for you to bleed, little by little, and can see the difference between "Crouch" and "Heal" animation. As soon as you hit "Heal", the animation is so damn slow, the dilo can sprint in, bite you again, and sprint out, before you EVEN STAND UP and can do anything. What a horrible gameplay.

[analog shadow]

Fix hitboxes possibly??? T-Rex while OP, has terrible hit registry when it comes to its attacks. I should be able to turn my head and bite at something if its against my shoulder. With the T-Rex turn radius being so slow, along with the hit reg being wonky, you can easily get tail ridden and even attack from the side to death by dinos smaller than you. It’s just a matter of time.

[placid snow]

Me over here lookin at my pachy boy waiting to see how he is gonna go from the worst in legacy to actually balanced.👀

[hollow sonnet]

when you come out with rex and trike in evrima trike must win the face tank

[void dagger]

Not sure if anyone's covered this, but Deino's Gator-Radar that we've been shown so far seems far too potent for a future aquatic & semi-aquatic ecosystem to flourish. It's been shown on streams to precisely pinpoint the location of all assets touching & beneath the water within a fairly decent range of Deino, which negates the ability for smaller, slower assets such as Minmi or Beipi to effectively hide or escape. I suggest either axing the mechanic outright, or tweaking it so that it gives a vague direction of where something is breaking the surface of the water. Anything else would essentially shut down the ability for non-gator assets to live in the swamps.

[lavish tundra]

Switch carnos and utahs acceleration around (the time it takes to get to full speed not the full speed itself)

[dense nest]

Utahraptor as a whole seems like a really good dino. However, maybe too good. There are no reprocussions for failing a pounce which mean you can just spam pounce. When I played Utah, this was really good for me but not Soo good for the prey.
There should be like a 1 second down animation at least, that way you don't have utahs simply spam pouncing. Other than that I think Utah is well balanced

[neon forum]

Just to add onto this suggestion, I think the utah pounce as a whole feels just very simple for the amount of damage it does. Maybe instead of damage, make it more relied on bleed to keep the prey moving instead of focusing on damage. Or if you want to focus on damage implement certain mechanics to make pouncing feel more skillful then just clicking a button.

[lavish tundra]

Deino shouldn't be able to fight other apexes in a fair 1v1, its a specialized semi aquatic predator that relies on ambushes from the water and is extremely strong when it comes to that. It should be destroyed by other apexes no matter what, kinda like legacy sucho but a lot stronger and more water reliant.
I wanted to say that it shouldn't even be able to grab other apexes but that might be too much but I really I don't like how stego just gets carried off into the water so easily.... Just seems unfair, and I can already tell a lot of people will be complaining about it in the future.

[red ibex]

Regarding the deino vibration radar mechanic, and how I saw someone talk of how other aquatic or semi aquatics would have an awful time with it, I’d propose that semi aquatics and aquatics get a much less potent version of the visibility for land dinosaurs, if deinosuchus can spot other semi and fully aquatic creatures, just doesn’t seem like there’s much point playing things less powerful than Deino :/

[rotund cipher]

I agree with weg, I think for the Deino radar stuff it should be much less precise. Perhaps something like the scent system where it’s a line from you to a vague location of where prey is.

[potent tangle]

or just if the prey is damaged/bleeding in water non aquatics cant smell it underwater and then deino (and other semi aquatics) can, making it a even more unique playstyle

[safe torrent]

A better way to balance this is to make deino realistic. IRL crocs are absolutely dominant, even against animals larger than themselves (like lions) however since all of their strength is put into underwater movement and bite force, they have no speed or mobility on land. This means they are super weak to group attacks, where one animal attacks it from the front and the other from behind. This should be the same with apex carnivores VS deino. It's bite is devastating, more so than a rex's bite, but keeping it at bay with a friend would be easy. A giga shouldn't be able to walk up and beat the crap out of a Deino without a lot of effort, but a pair of gigas would destroy a Deino because they wouldn't have to risk getting hit to get hits.

Basically Deino should get destroyed more than anything else in a 1v2, but should be able to hold it's own in a 1v1 against the average apex.

[neon forum]

I think a great mechanic to add is to add a sweeping attack to stego. Right now we have a jab but it doesn't seem to fit the animal all that well especially as its main attack. I get what they were going for but something is off. I think implementing an actual sweeping attack makes more sense just for the animal itself.

Now how would you balance this? well there are quite a few ideas to make it work

• AOE dmg maybe have like a small yellow area that lets the stego user see how much of an area will be in the range of their attack?
• Maybe adding as an alt attack while running or walking
• Outright removing jab and just replacing it with a whole new sweep attack?

These are just some ideas but overall I think giving stego a sweeping attack rly just fits the animal since its tail spikes are on the side of its tail.

[full lantern]

As see. From some previous streams, deino can carry a tenonto into the water like it’s no problem, which is fine.

It’s the fact it literally carries a stego which is bothersome. It should drag the stego into the water by wherever it’s been bitten while the stego isn’t being lifted above the ground. Plus it should also be a sort of “tug of war” thing, both sides get to try to pull each other, if the deino drags the stego a lot and exhausts it, it can drag it away. But if the stego exhausts the deino, it breaks free from its grasp.

Now the question is, how do they exactly exhaust each other? It’s simple. The stego can try moving around(though it’s movement is limited and hindered) and the deino has to try to keep up with these movements or drag it back.

[runic token]

Okay so here we go with another big balance problem, the main subject being stego, now some of you may know this and some of may not but stego has a big big problem regarding it's hitbox, and this has been developed by a carno gang on eu 1 that is rinsing the stego population with this effort, and with that comes the bystanders to their slaughter which has picked it up as well, (me included) this has started to spread anf spread, now playing as a stego is no longer viable due to carnos picking up and using this method to continually baiting and biting the tail without worry of getting hit, and is evrima stegos bane, there are a couple ways to fix this though, you could make stego jab faster than it already is, or make biting it's thagomizers do deadly amounts of passive damage (which would end the problem completely) or just make stego 1 shot carno (which it should but probably won't until allo gets added) and yes this is known by the devs so it should be fixed soon, hopefully, so now I resign this arguement with proof https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/401464048610312195/809792084084391976/Kebab.mp4

[proud fractal]

It would be cool if a Utah could actually jump with the chunk of meat to get on a rock and eat peacefully🍴

[cunning oasis]

Correct if the steggo player times the attack better carno dies people panic way too much and make too many mistakes in combat

[neon forum]

Skill should be rewarded if you play your dinosaur the correct way. Using a bug isn’t skill it’s simply a problem and it should be fixed

[lavish tundra]

Not even sure why you're defending a carno litteraly biting the air beside stegos tail

We got rid of legacy because of hitbox issues like this, lets not try to bring them back because carno players are mad that high tiers beat mid tiers.

[proud fractal]

Since the Ptera can peck dinos while flying, it would make sense if it could sip water while gliding across lakes and rivers💧

[slim topaz]

The solution to sweaty carnos wrecking shitty Stego population is not to give Stegos an instakill button for carnos lol...

Just make hitting their thagomizer do no damage to the stego (unless it were crushed by, say, a rex or large deino), and deal significant (not instant kill or 1 shot by any means) damage to the attacker. This passive damage feature, even while the tail is not "in use" by attack animation, is similar to that already planned for triceratops horns, so there is precedent sort of. Running at full speed or pouncing into them will cause lots of damage. Give thagomizer the same ability.

The real problem is not carnos vs stegos, it's utahs vs. stegos. Stegos have a horrible matchup against utah packs.

[hollow oasis]

Probably has been said but here we go again-Carno needs a nerf. It's mobility, acceleration, bite, damage are broken in every way and I dunno why not many people talk about that. I think it may be due to the fact that most players secretly enjoy being able to play as temporary "apex carnivore" without actual enemies. (Utah's pounce is dangerous but a Carno that thinks with it's head can just run to the trees or rocks, knock off the Utahs and kill them. Also bucking is a thing.) However that does not mean that we can let it stay unbalanced. The biggest problem with Carno is it's mobility combined with way too fast acceleration. The fastest carnivore in the game simply should not be able to get into full speed sprint that quickly. Bad turn radius which is supposed to be Carno's main weakness is non-existent in Evrima, instead of that, Evrima Carno moves like a bigger Utah and that's wrong on so many levels. Solution would be simply nerfing the turn speed and acceleration speed of Carno which would not let it to move like a big Utahraptor. Something needs to be done about that, but that's not the end, currently Carno deals too much dmg with tail bites, tail bites on Tenonto deal as much dmg as body bites. Reduce that a bit, by like 15/20%. Those changes would balance out Carno and make it less agile than it is now while still having the same damage, speed and hp.

[bronze sequoia]

Why isn’t the Anky being release in update 4? I would figure that the anky would go well with the fracture mechanic. Plus i don’t think it would throw off the balance.

[marsh skiff]

Not sure if anyone else agrees but Tenoto could use a buff pertaining to its stamina, either a stamina regen buff, or just a total stamina buff.

And the younger stages of Tenoto could definitely use a speed buff since they're so terribly slow(looking at you Juvenile and Sub Adult Tenoto)

[timid pelican]

its not really a secret that stego in evrima isnt great, so, why not add another attack to satisfy the wants and needs of stego currently, this proposed attack would be bound to alt + right click in a similar vein to the utah alt bite, it would do a swing in the direction of the camera, covering the rear end of the animal, this proposed attack would only have two animations as its just one for left and one for right, no difference between them, it would do less damage than the jab but also be useable when moving.

[frigid moth]

People seem to have forgotten that:

A) Stego only has to worry about Utah and Carno in the current build of the game and so it’s utterly pointless to balance it against apexes which aren’t even going to arrive for at least a year.
It’s quite depressing that people need to have it spelled out for them but the absence of apexes does not warrant the absence of predators for Stego. If it needs to be temporarily weaker so that it’s not some busted playable with 0 predators then so be it.

B) The devs clearly plan to leave Stegosaurus as being weak against apexes (we don’t even know how stego will fare against them seeing as surprise surprise, they arent here yet) because there is an elaborate plan to make herbivores unviable to satisfy carnivore mains. Stegosaurus is going to be made into fodder because despite the devs fictionalising Anky because it’s a “bad animal” and even bothering with attempting to make Magyarosaurus viable, Stegosaurus which unlike Magy is popular and unlike Anky doesn’t need to be fictionalised to be “viable, is the animal where they have decided to go “yeah lets make it shit”.

C) let’s entertain the thought that the devs had decided to add in Stegosaurus as an animal that’s meant to be hunted by apexes and some mids like Allo, bear in mind that none of those animals are playable yet. It’s seems pretty clear to me that stegosaurus would end up being a tad broken precisely because of what I just said.

Frankly listening to people moan about non-issues with Stego has been insufferable. What’s worse is that what I’ve just pointed out isn’t rocket science, like ffs who the hell wants to play a game where one class is completely untouchable in comparison to the rest of the roster? Is it maybe just too difficult to comprehend that maybe the reason why Stegosaurus is balanced the way it is is because the game currently consists of 6 whole playables?
Is it too difficult to comprehend all this?

You people are being hysterical and it’s fucking tiring.

[sly umbra]

Make stego heavier/more health. Its fine for now but if it stays this thin hes just going apex chew toy. And fix the stupid tail thing. Its dumb how 1 single half brain carno can destroy a stego by doing something that was supposed to be removed in evrima. Assriding

[sudden oak]

If you miss a pounce or jump at the wrong spot without dying on impact (like Trike), the stagger/recovery animation could be longer or shorter depending on your stamina.
Before, if you missed or hit the face/tail, you would spend a few seconds getting back up. I think that should be re-added, but with an addition. The more stamina you have the faster you recover and can get away.
This would reward ambushing, precision, teamwork with a pack, and learning to dismount before your stamina depletes. It would also make bucking more advantageous, since a low stam Utah will take awhile to get going.

[plush meteor]

Hypsi needs a buff that he can spit with 20% of food and not the old 25%. so you always can spit without looking 20mins for bushes. ( sry if someone already said that )

[robust marlin]

Deino Water Radar

I think when it comes to seeing dinosaurs swimming via "radar", there should be several things taken into consideration for how well a Deino can pick up on swimmers.

--Size. A bigger dino (carno, stego, teno) will be picked up on a lot easier and from much farther away than a Hypsi or Troodon.
--Number of dinos in water. A whole herd crossing a lake/river will make a lot more movement and noise than a single dino.
--Speed. If a dinosaur slowly enters the water and slowly swims across, it won't be as detectable, versus a dino that hits the water full-speed, making a big splash and lots of noise and movement, such as if its fleeing another dino from land at full tilt.
--Aquatic adaptation. If a dinosaur is better adapted or built for the water and aquatic locomotion (Hypsi, Teno, ptera(?)), they should be less noticeable when swimming, compared to dinos that are not built for it and have to work harder to keep afloat or move, and would be overall clumsy in deep water (carno, utah, stego)

Tail grabbing

Because I've seen a lot of people talking about assriding and hitboxes around tails, just a potential suggestion in passing, but maybe allow for tail-grabbing rather than tail damage.

So if a carnivore goes up to the tail of an animal, it can grab a hold of the tail as an anchor point or to stop being attacked by said tail.

However, the consequences of doing it/trying should make sense as well. If a utah tries to grab the tail spikes of a stego, it should be easy to fling around/off/through the air, opening it up to fall/impact damage & stunlock or possibly getting impaled as its being swung around.

Alternatively, if a Carno or bigger apex grabs the tail of a Teno, it'll hold the Teno from running away or tail-smacking for a short period, but through some form of struggling, the teno can break away from the tail grab and run/fight, which could do some minor damage, but it should be by a negligible/non-vital amount

[brazen harbor]

Just wondering in there might be an option for enforcing herbivore / carnivore balance. Like 5:1 or something. Probably only useful in larger populated servers. Issue is, many players like to play carnivores. Just thinking it might be good to try a more natural balance for gameplay. At least the server setup option for this ?

[cunning cedar]

Anything that bites the Thagomizers on a Stego should take small amount of damage to counter Carnos biting the tip of a Stego's tail while its unable to swing and reach but also by the time it does try to swing the Carno has backed away. Evrima btw

[lavish tundra]

I honestly think you should grab meat chunks by holding G and grab a body by just pressing G

When you hold G, your character would do the first part of the eating animation, which takes a while and adds more risk and vulnerability to the meat chunk mechanic, which is what you should aim for.

Scavenging shouldn’t be easy

[full lantern]

currently stegos can easily be killed by a single carno by biting it on the thagomizer and that damages stego. That is utterly ridiculous, you can fix this by making it so that a bite on the thagomizer's doesn't deal damage to the stego, or deals a bit of damage for the attacker.

The current situation with it is wrong, and completely unbalanced. Its like punching a guy whos holding a gun, and it hurts the guy whos holding the gun.

[lavish tundra]

When Pounce gets reworked, the nerfs and changes like bite cooldown/acceleration nerf should be reverted
Those two nerfs weren't really solving any issues and were more of artificial band aid fixes when only Pounce was the main outlier of imbalance

[lavish tundra]

Raise Cooldown on Stegos tail swing, that's all

[safe torrent]

Stego's sideways tail swing almost instantly moves back into position after hitting. It looks really dumb because the tail basically teleports back to it's resting place after it jabs all the way out to the side

every other tail attack is learnable, accurate, and fun to use

[neon forum]

Honestly I think stuff with tail weapons such as anky and stego should have mechanics for swinging their tail not jabbing.

[cyan salmon]

As for the topic of deinosuchus and the mud .... If he bleeds and wilts in the mud and stays on land, he heals faster and when he goes into the water he heals more slowly.

[cunning cedar]

Rework Bleeding in Evrima, It's nearly useless when mud is so accessable and bleed only really effects you IF it even fully drains, that almost never happens because dinos die from damage before their bleed even drains. Bleed should be like in Legacy as itll still be balanced since you can still sit or even better roll in mud to stop the bleeding until youre either not covered in mud anymore or bitten again while healing the bleed.

[safe garnet]

^ Legacy bleed was imbalanced.
Bleed in Evrima just needs to be upped a LOT, stat effects and all. Unless theres some kind of masterplan for bleeder dinos, than I take it back.

[wispy marlin]

if stego is gonna be like this,its growth time should be reduced

[safe torrent]

Easy stego fixes from my previous suggestions and a demand from most of the community

1: Passive damage for attacking thagomizer, makes Carno assride basically impossible.

2: Attack reword. Stego shouldn't bite. It's basically a meme now. Instead LMB should do the jabs it does now, and RMB should do sweeping attacks, only one in each side, that do less damage than the jabs. Also for the jabs, fix sideways poke, it teleports back to the starting position after attacking.

3: Sprint animation redo. It weightlessly bounces right now. Instead make it run like a rhino or literally anything that isn't what it is now.

[safe torrent]

I noticed dryos attack is delayed for some reason and it takes a bit more than half a second after the click to do damage. With something that bites as fast as a dryo this makes it near impossible to get hits on anything. Please make it deal damage on the click instead!

[void dagger]

concerning the Deinosuchus's "water radar," I feel that it should only be usable while stationary if they don't overhaul the mechanic entirely so that players' exact positions aren't revealed to the 8-ton gator. this way, once smaller aquatics are implemented, they won't be hard-pressed for survival at all times simply because they glow blue all the time.

[drowsy atlas]

im not a playtester but i feel like u shouldbe able tothrasha orund and fight ur way out teh dieinos jars if ur a stego or somthing not get one bite clapped and koed

[brazen harbor]

Any way we can get player grazing back to more function? Player-side, it's meditative and feels natural, even if it might take 10-15 min to fill up. Player predator side, gets Herbies out in open areas and not just eat a quick bush and hide. Maybe still not full up all the way (60%?), and maybe take a nutrition hit with the diets update

[foggy venture]

if you did understand what arkman said, he meant a way to struggle your way out of its jaws. I said this. earlier like maybe spamming space bar, that way the deino wouldn’t be completely over powered.

[fiery vortex]

For deino. How about instead of mud, there are patches of silt deposits in some low laying areas of the rivers and lakes. They can go into them and 'roll' in it to stop bleeding, the silt partials will get into the wounds to clot it. It can last same time as mud or get removed faster if they swim.

[fallow panther]

How about for baby ptera, instead of it being able to just lift off like an adult, make it so it has to get a running start to fly
It makes it harder for the baby and also makes being an adult ptera more unique because as an adult you can just jump and lift off

[full lantern]

I’ve said this multiple times, but here goes.

Stego has been getting dumped on by things it shouldn’t be weak against(Utah). The way pounce currently works(for example, you pounce at the back of a stego and it transitions you to the sides) very much favors Utah in almost any matchup. Take a look at this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_Ej1KIvOds

That stuff should not be happening, at all. Perhaps if you pounce somewhere it doesn’t move you to the sides, and instead your stuck wherever you pounced to make it more difficult. Or, add a short window of time where when the Utah is pouncing, it can be knocked down and hit.

[red ibex]

^^ This, utah is seemingly being made to draw in even more of the docktahs due to its easy pick up and play playstyle, and with pounce its even easier to pick up and play Utahraptor. Utah shouldnt be the easiest creature to play, implement the old system of where if a utah pounced in lets say a trikes horns, it is either impaled or knocked to the ground and severely injured, putting that individual out of the fight for a while.

This will get X bombed by Utah mains wont it.

[quick mural]

To make nesting harder, only females should be able to make nests AND only males able to incubate them, much like modern animals. It would make it not only a little more realistic but also give meaning to what gender you choose: if a female wants to nest it has to have a male with it or it won't work. This ensures there are still males running around so that it isn't all females reproducing by themselves. A female shouldn't be able to make a nest and hatch young without male input. It might even make the game harder to play if you need the opposite gender around and maybe having young can be a necessity to having a "comfortable" individual.

[novel sail]

I think it should be the other way around. Males make nests and females incubate the eggs. It could be a mating ritual of sorts where males find suitable rocks and sticks and foliage for cushioning and support or dig a hole to make a well-designed nest. Too flimsy or flat and the nest cannot support the eggs; too deep and the female cannot incubate and sit properly on the nest.

Males who make the best nests and display the best parenting skills get their nests utilized by females. Heck, maybe well-designed nests on the males' part can give tiny perks to the hatchlings. Females should be choosy of who they mate with anyway, and maybe males who choose to take turns incubating with their mates get healthier offspring that grow faster into their juvenile stage.

[full lantern]

Im afraid you guys, are making combat go into the complete opposite direction that it was going, for the worse.

Now that running around will make you bleed more and need you to sit down, not to mention Pounce still being very broken, evrimas fun, fast paced combat will probably be no more.

What you did to pounce will not fix anything, and Utahs will still kill everything that is currently Ingame. The Bleed buff was good, But by making Utahs pounce not do lots of damage, but insane bleed? That makes it arguably worse than regular.

Pounce needs to make it so two utahs cant pounce in the same spot, that’s ridiculous.

Pounce should not make utahs randomly slide over to the sides where it starts attacking, the Utah should only pounce where they aimed for. If you shoot an arrow to your left it shouldn’t curve to hit something Infront of you.

Pounce should not make Utahs invincible in its initial lunge to grapple on. Stegos can hit it straight in the chest mid pounce, and the Utah lives and pounces it.

In pounce, you should have to worry about holding on as well, so making it like saurians RPR system, where you have to hang on and focus on your grip, and attacking destabilzes your grip, attack too much and you fall off.

If this is what grapples will be like in the future, they will all need a rework, and that rework may even be worse than this one.

By “reworking” pounce in this way, it did not make it harder for utahs, it made it their fantasy.

[safe garnet]

^ I beg to differ

Bleed pounce is hugely more balanced then pounce doing a ridiculous amount of damage.
Damage pounce gave Utah a little too much power for a creature that small, allowing it to even kill a Stego, which is a massive creature!

• Bleed pounce will require a Utah pack to be more coordinated to take down larger game. You won't have 4 Utahs pouncing a stego and killing a stego by depleting all of their stam in one pounce. Bleed pounce will require you to bleed out your opponent, and lower their stamina regen.

• No more will Utahs dominate the plains: Utah's will finally rejoin their ranks as a pack hunting, small-tier dino, that requires patience and coordination.

• This means even hunting carnos will be a more challenging fight. It requires 2 Utah's to fully deplete their stamina when pouncing a full carno to kill it, which is hugely unbalanced. Now with the bleed pounce, you have to rely on patience, timing, and coordination or pack hunting.

In summary: Bleed pounce makes Utah so much more balanced, enabling skill, patience and timing to take effect whenever you hunt bigger game. No more will Utahs kill stegos with 4 pounces and carnos with 2.

Thank you devs for fixing the pounce!

[round violet]

Now that bleed is more of a settled-in mechanic, and we're going to be getting our first real "tanky" dinosaurs pretty darn soon... I think defensive dinos should come with a massive blood pool compared to the average playable. Tough, thick-skinned, tenacious armoured dinosaurs like Deinosuchus, as well as Pachycephalosaurs, Ceratopsians and Ankylosaurs (maybe Spinosaurids like Sucho?) make up for their generally lower mobility and speed with extreme battle endurance! If you choose to attack one, it would be a commitment, and you'd better hope you know what you're doing.

Playables that only casually rely on their bleed, like Utah, should really think twice before trying to bleed out a Pachy, and shouldn't even think about trying the same thing with a Triceratops. These dinosaurs were made to take a beating and still survive in the end, so dinosaurs like this should only be properly engaged by the playables in their size range or higher that can match their strength. (obvious example of Trike vs Rex, the two were basically built to kill each other) Alternatively, playables that specialize in bleed could also hunt the tanky dinosaurs, but it should be a lot more difficult, and definitely not in their favour outside of a pack.

[bronze blaze]

I would really like that the anky has some armor that protects it a bit from the attack. Like when the utahs pounce on it they deal smaller amount of damage and bleed. That would make it more realistic and harder to take down a living tank. Because of their mobility loss this should be a good feature to bring back a bad animal from the dead. Of course this is a suggestion for the future and that probably wont happen any time soon

[tranquil wigeon]

im not sure if this has been discussed before since im not active here, but tenoto's claw attack should inflict bleed! its talons look ridiculously sharp and it kind of needs that edge in the fight atm

[safe garnet]

^ It does

Also I'm hoping the amount of bleed it inflicts should be upped.

[brave sundial]

As a Utah main I agree

[novel sail]

All dinos should have some sort of 'pin' animation that makes your dino take advantage of a wallowing, sleeping, or knocked down victim with its weight while going for the neck and throat, while the victim can retaliate by kicking at the belly and clawing at the neck and face, and may even push the attacker off if the attacker is evenly-matched or smaller. After all, this is a horror game where you should never let your guard down for a second, yet, take advantage of any exploitable situation available to you.

If you are larger by mass, you will pin the smaller dinosaur more easily, you will hold them down for longer, and if something smaller pins you down, you will have a better time knocking them off. Utah can already do it. What about Carno? Say a Carno flings a Utah off his body and the Utah is crumpled on the ground. Carno takes advantage of the stunned Utah by pinning it down by the tail with one foot, clawing its belly with the other, and going for the neck with his teeth. Utah can retaliate by spam clicking to claw at the eyes and neck.

[compact fjord]

Anyone else think that Carno needs a lot more momentum buildup, rather than an instantaneous sprint? Think of it like Legacy.
Edit; for perspective, Carno is the dino I play the most right now, its speed buildup is faster than Utah. The top speed is reached way too quickly.
✅ or ❌?

[feral hedge]

Hey, so, haven't done this in a while. Pretty rusty. But:

Make Bucking a Skill Check.

Instead of chipping away at a pouncer's/grappler's time, have it knock them right off if they fail to meet it.

[safe torrent]

Carno accelerating faster than Utah is really weird. Make Carno accel slower or maybe Utah a little faster. I agree Utah shouldn't instant accelerate, but it's REALLY slow right now when your comparing to Carno.

Honestly just same as what Spoopy said, make Carno accel slower.

[cunning cedar]

Give Tenontos a cooldown for its tail slam, They're able to tailslam a carno to stun it and keep spamming it while the carno isnt able to do anything at all. This will also effect cerato in the future aswell

[lavish tundra]

Hypsi should have more shots. It's an easy to miss, and not overpowered "weapon". ( idk the mixpack bullshit, you can't balance with mixpacking in mind). It's probably the only reason to play Hypsi, so I suggest that it should double the amount of shots what it has now. Also reduce the stamina cost of the high jump, don't see a reason why using its high jump is so "punishing". So yeah, Hypsi overall needs a buff imo.

[onyx crown]

A “Struggle” mechanic for animals to attempt and twist or wiggle or fight their way out of pounces, lunges, and grapples would be welcome— it would cost stamina, like bucking, with a chance to escape.

[lavish tundra]

Yeah I agree with RyK on this one. You guys meed to rethink Hypsilophodon, it has so much wasted potential.

It’s FOV makes it impossible to see where you’re going, the way the camera zooms in to try to aim the spit, the way the spit doesn’t even reach as long as the vomit particles reach, the way your jump doesn’t work while sprinting.

Hypsi is at this moment the most useless playable The Isle has. You can read the description of this creature on the trello roadmap or watch its concept art and nothing of that is true for Hypsi on the practice.

Additionally, I personally would give the ability for Hypsi to smell while walking, for it to be like little sentinels for herbivores. Finally and most importantly, this is incredibly NEEDED for hypsi to actually be viable:

#general-feedback message

[buoyant bough]

Adding onto Bilbos hypsi suggestion, bring back the stamina regen it had. it doesnt have to be as good ofc, but for what hypsi does it should regain stamina a bit quicker than it does.

[sweet rivet]

Give utah a speed buff or a accel buff?👉 👈

[feral hedge]

Reworking the last post: Make Bucking a Skill Check

Have it so that when Utah-or any grappler-grabs onto a target, they automatically start off Bracing. They cannot do damage in this stance, it does cost a small amount of stamina to maintain it which increases if the victim fights back, but you won't be knocked off so long as you're in it (not counting trees or third party animal interference).

When you want to deal dmg, you have begin Mauling. Mauling will cost more slightly more stamina, however, you can stop the animation by switching back into Bracing at any time. You can be knocked off when Mauling.

Also, unless I'm wrong, don't animation lock a creature attempting to buck. Allow them to start and stop the animation, not instantly, rather it would be better if it worked as a build up.

Changes made due to concerns of dsyncing, a normal quick time event (like dead by daylight) is a little too much ask. However, this should work fine outside of the most atrocious of lag because both parties can approach it at their own speed. It's a trade, a mind game. Like fishing games, do you reel in or let the swimmer have some leeway.

[red ibex]

If carnos raw bite damage doesnt end up nerfed atleast nerf its turn radius slightly, dont make it as awful as in legacy however somewhere in between evrima and legacy. Carno is a fast runner and when you combo that with its great as hell turn radius in evrima, you have an apex carnivore that isnt meant to be an apex in the game, carno can take on stegos even without the glitch though this takes more coordination, patience and skill.

[hot zephyr]

So, let me paint the picture. Recently adult utah I can finally catch the fast af dryos. I catch one and want to bring it to my nest. Then 50 canros come out of the bushes from the smell of meat. Killing my whole family and poor chicks. A nice suggestion would be a way to cover the scent of your kill or make it dull/shorter range maybe? Would protect the babies and keep people from snatching a nice meal you got while you left it for water.

[split rampart]

Stego's tail attack sucks just make it a swipe pls

[frigid crypt]

^ I dont think stego should necessarily lose the stab, but instead gain swipe as an additional attack, using more stamina and be kinda like some sort of 180 swipe as like a big alt attack or something.

[pallid notch]

Please don’t change stego’s tail attack, it should be challenging. It’s balanced as is. Just because you can die as a stego now, doesn’t mean it needs to be changed.

[lavish tundra]

Nerf juvi stego, 2 juvi stego tail swings shouldn't kill a utah that has 60 growth or higher, especially because of it's small tail and blunt thagomizers.

[thick perch]

Give Dryosaurus a kick animation. In the attempts to make it more dynamic, giving it a secondary attack would be helpful. Yes, it's main goal is to run and hide, but if confronted by say a Velociraptor or "Troodon" a good blow from those long legs would serve as a good way to disorientate these fast opponents, giving them the chance to deal better damage than biting and give them the opportunity to run off while the other player is in a dazed effect.

[pallid notch]

Make attacking a stego's tail deal damage to the attacker... like come on. big brain

[half tartan]

Carno should be faster than Utah, based on biological studies of the two.

[bronze steeple]

i think that the dino should have some kind of adrenaline mechanic, when its hurt and its running for his life the stamina shouldnt stop them from running for an other bit, running for their life after being without stamina may also give some visual debuff, like not seeing well

[winter flax]

When utah falls off the side of a carno or anything, make the standup animation just a little faster. Not too much faster because that’ll get abused and is unrealistic, but the utah gets up as if it isnt in a life or death situation.

[frigid crypt]

^ I think it would be cool to see the utah scrambling up from the ground, if you try to move or something it would speed up the getting up time. Instead of you locked in place, while ur chubby utah takes its sweet time and gets shredded by a woodchipper carno. I couldn't find any other example of scrambling to get up, so heres one of an oversized turkey
https://imgur.com/JY4poAB

[full lantern]

Since the devs are unclear abt what hallucinations dilos have, heres an idea.
The venom of the hallucination does stack, and will reach a max and have different stages throughout.

Regular amount of venom(1 bite)
-victim may have “phantom calls” of animals that arent there, gut regular calls can still happen and be heard.
-victim may also confuse what is the weather, and may see it as rainy when it is sunny.

a bit extra amount(2 bites
-phantom calls
-ghost dinosaurs, where the player can see other dinosaurs charging towards them,looking at them, but these dinos arent real, and don’t damage the player or anything, these dinos are also only visible to the infected.

Maximum
-nametags of friends disappear
-other dinos may appear as different dinos, including your group mates, but they do the damage, have the hp and stamina as their regular.
-ghost dinos
-phantom calls.

it should be noted, that all of these side effects are exclusive to the victim, ghost dinos dont occur for the regular players, phantom calls dont occur for regular players, all of these will only happen to the victim, and everything else will appear normal to people minding their business

[frigid crypt]

^ I still want to be able to play the game. Seems really annoying to be locked in the middle of a fight for a few seconds just to vomit. What I think should be important to stray away from is manipulating your actual vision so you can't see the stuff around you, (flipping upside-down, blindness, graying or making the screen really bright or darkening your overall screen). I think the desaturation of colors could be used, but if you compare it to hypsis' spit in a way you are still able to fight and move and its temporary.

Having every bite give you some sort of blocking of your vision seems... too much, they will already have heavy bleeding/ some sort of draining effect on you. To simply throw all of these stackable things onto one person's dino seems... unavoidable. With the first venom idea, of still allows you to play the game and fight without the annoying, visually impairing, or restricting of player vision. Taking away someone's ability to see during a fight, while also draining stamina and blood pool during gameplay seems like just.. too much. And definitely something that could be acceptable if done right, but ultimately I think it should be leaned away from.

[tulip flax]

To combat Mixpacking and Overpacking has an Animal Stress System been considered?

• A Stress Icon fills up when animals of an unfavorable species or too many of your own kind are in some proximity.
• The more stress your animal is under the faster your hunger depletes causing Stress Eating.
• You could even have more serious side effects like panic or rage status effects.
• Servers naturally would be able to tune this to their liking.

I just feel like the limited grouping system is not doing anything to limit group sizes or stop unnatural mixpacking. It's just a strange inconvience which causes people to use local or global chat.

[lavish tundra]

Please make tails not go through rocks. It makes it hard for a Utah to be on a rock when an adult stego swipes through it.

[lavish tundra]

^this is the same person that died to our stego group trying to hide on a rock lmao

[full lantern]

So, Deino's lunge from what im guessing, is kind of similar to pounce. Grab prey and control it in a stamina battle. **But stamina battles for the most part arent fun. To make it more engaging, it could be like a battle between them on a bar UI that pops up. **

The victim of the lunge/pounce has to keep their little tab on the bar away from the deino's bar, while the deino has to keep their bar on top of the victim's. If the deino does it well enough a certain amount of times, the deino pulls the victim closer. If the victim does a good enough job evading the deino's tab for a bit, it gets closer to land. Weight heavily influences this, and makes it harder to avoid the deinos tab, or harder to get to the victims tag.

This does
1)Keeps grappling engaging, and more fun and still gives a chance to win even if your a tad bit small against the deino.

2)Keeps it more balanced, as its not like pounce which is just "Hold RMB to win" .

This system could also be implemented for other grapples and latches such as pounce or Allo's latch.

[frigid crypt]

^ I like the idea of being able to fight back against something that is lunging. But making the assumption that only full adult deinos can lunge, its hard to see a tenonto being able to win in an all out tug of war. I could see this happening with a stego, since the big chunky man has a chance to overpower the deino, but theres not really anything else that could benefit from this.

I think for smaller dinos it would be nice to see some sort of evade, dodge or something that a dino could use to get away from a lunging deino. Considering that theres no way to back up, everyone would probably be forced to run spin 180 a fast as they could to escape a deino which doesn't seem like it would help your chances. If you follow the idea that the tug of war is based much on weight, then anything smaller than a stego your 'tug of war' ui would pop up, yoink straight over to the deinos side and you would get dragged in the water immediately.

[tall mesa]

I feel like giveing a choice to what type of Dino your going to play as would be nice. For example, there is already a evrima spino, But if there was another spino that looks different and a different stats and stuff, that would be cool.

[hollow ridge]

Give hypsi a growth timer around 15 min and buff its stamina, speed and agility and possibly its health. Hypsi right now has 0 value and cant defend or run away from any dino other than stego. Its a shame that practicly no-one plays this dino that took a long time to develop.

[pallid notch]

I’d say a growth timer of 30 minutes for hypsi

[shy ocean]

I assume we need some light running and option to switching between regular walking and that trot(you still have clickable shift, but there is gonna be switching key), stamina will be spending much slower in that case.
I dont know, its just because think that regular speed is too slow

[inland sequoia]

utahs sometimes arent one shot for stego??

[full lantern]

buff stego's damage, it needs it. Doesnt matter if a utah got hit in the tail, it should bleed out which hopefully will happen in update 3

[winter flax]

For younger utahs(Probably lower than 85% growth), they could be able to climb trees, but to balance this out, holding onto and climbing higher into the tree either slowly drains or doesnt let them regenerate their stamina. This is a way to escape adult carnos and KOS'ing herbivores since utahs can have a hard time hunting alone and just killing the herbivore or carno. In the tree they can buy time for their pack members to come in and help them. Or, just give the attacking dino some time until it becomes uninterested.

[hollow crane]

Please can we get water points at the buildings the caves and tower so we can go thier as larger slower animals. Can this be implimented soon as I really want to explore the map and move away from the river and swamps

[feral hedge]

The tree climbing is fine, the stamina cost for climbing is fine. But there should be perches on trees that allow the animal to sit and wait out the danger appropriately.

I don't know where 85% is for growth, but Sub Adults should be incapable of doing this.

There's nothing innately wrong with this idea. There's even scientist who believed that Deinonychus hatchlings did this themselves as shown here: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/tetrapod-zoology/climbing-flying-babies-of-deinonychus/

But whether or not this is fully accurate doesn't really matter, if it did, Adult Utahs shouldn't be capable of jumping in the game at all. What matters is that it has theme and is fairly viable. AI is no longer the type that just spawns in on you for a free meal, so you'll have to leave your safety net eventually to find food. And the predator that can do it is also has one of the shortest growths in game, so it's hardly noticeable.

It gives hatchlings and juvies viability.

[void star]

I'd like to eventually see different grades of water based on stagnation. So maybe those water sources get added as puddles and small murky ponds but they make you nauseous like over eating does. Versus the streams and rivers giving a good flow for cleaner water. Even my cat prefers the faucet to his water dish lol.

[languid falcon]

So regarding the apex carnivores, i think they should be balances so that rex vs giga is a 65% to 35% chance in favor of rex, rex vs spino would be 70% to 30 % in favor of rex, and giga vs spino would be 60% to 40% in favor of giga. In the water for rex vs giga it would be 55% to 45% in favor of rex, rex vs spino would be 80% to 20% in favor of spino, and giga vs spino would be 85% to 15% in favor of spino. React with ✅ if these are pretty good ratios (They might need to be changed to make rex a little less strong), and react with ❌ if these ratios need to be changed entirely.

[red ibex]

Buff Stegos damage, not to a crazy extent, but just to where a headshot on a carno ( if not already ingame ) becomes a 1 shot, and making it so a body shotted utah is 1 shot aswell. Stego cant run for shit, and with its new tail attack its quite literally forced to sit around in one area swinging its tail and turning around, its already shit at dealing with mid tiers, apexes (unless made the speed of a brachi) will make stegos fodder.

[feral hedge]

I'll do you one better:

Make Stego's tail attack an AOE.

Currently, in game, a Utah that runs at a Stego can turn 180 in order to survive Stego's Tail Attack. Why? Well now we have locational dmg, but it works in ticks and single point action. Once dmg is applied to one body part, the attack ceases doing dmg to another. This causes the tail to act as a shield for the body rather than an extension, because once Stego Tail Attacks the Utah's tail the attack is basically over. Even if, animation wise, the thagomeizer is still travelling forward and is physically touching the Utah's Body and even Head hitboxes in some cases-it's just visuals at this point.

Easy Fix: Just allow Stego's Tail Attack to continue doing dmg through out its entire Attack Animation. If a Utah gets knicked on only the tail, it's fine. But if it flys to close to the sun and it's body hit box is in range-than its fucked.

[frigid crypt]

Instead of actually taking stamina down with every bite, why not just have the venom stack to each time you are bitten it increases the amount of stamina it takes to do attacks. Of course set a max so you don't drain half your stamina with each attack. Instead of having an active punishment, have the cost and risk just increased. So they can't just bite you to death because you had little stamina

[merry hare]

I was thinking herbivores should use grazing as a way to fill their stomachs and stay alive more. As of right now herbivores use it in case they are unable to find a bush. However, if you watch things like deer in nature, they eat grass, weeds, trees and basically any other plant.

[void star]

I think grazing is fine as is. Deer eat grass yes but it's not nearly as filling as fruit roots veggies and nuts. It's more of a filler item. Like how humans Can live off vegan means, but many of them have to take supplements because they don't get the full nutritional value of a varied diet. The trello roadmap already shows diet on the way, which I would think mean the addition of more vegetation variety for herbivores. We just gotta hang on ^^

[feral hedge]

Resubmitting: Grazing Revisited

Currently, the chosen way to balance Grazing is to prevent herbivores from gaining more than 20% of their hunger (forgive me if that's incorrect). It's a last resort that encourages you to instead find bushes. Not bad, but I think we can do better. We can instead create a meta that nurtures constant motion across the map, gives competition in between herbivores, and really spruce up the ecosystem with interesting encounters.

For a more detailed explanation of how to do this : https://steamcommunity.com/app/376210/discussions/14/5188663423649268984/

To break it down here:

1-Assign Nodes on the map that herbivores can graze at when in range, and then set a numeric value for the amount of grazeable food they're worth.

2-Whenever a herbivore grazes at these nodes, the amount of food decreases. When that value reaches 0, no herbivore can Graze in that area until it regenerates food over time.

3-When Grazing at one Node, also reduces the value of food in neighboring nodes. A Herbivore should get half of its food from the Node it's grazing in, while the other half should come from an accumulation of the sister nodes connected to it.

4-Remove the 20% limit to Grazing. In the future, you will no longer need to be so heavy handed because you will have the Diet System. Berry Bushes will still remain very relevant in this idea.

5-Give visual ques for bountiful land and barren land to both Herbivores AND Carnivores. I would suggest just making it so that our Scent Compass changes its shade of color, but you could mess with the grass texture.

There's alot this system could offer. Hotspots will naturally rotate around the map because players will be forced to migrate. Group Size will become more controlled and even personal as Herbivores are incentivized to protect their food sources from rival herds and over population.

Thank You for your time and feel free to talk, ask, or suggest anything you think I missed in the discussion.

[cosmic eagle]

Carno's charge attack needs to be changed in some way, it is a neat combat idea but for people to use it for gaining more speed is kinda dumb, perhabs it could drain your stamina more or it could just not give u any speed boost.

[subtle barn]

Edited the suggestion due to down voting
The distal one third of the tenos tail should not deal full slam damage. Should be like 50% less damage in the distal 1/3 of the tail.

[subtle barn]

EDITED again after discussion.
Issue: No animal in the history of animals EVER died from direct physical trauma to their tail, although they may BLEED OUT from taking trauma to their tail.
Suggestion: Tail locational damage received should be 1 or 2 % of full damage, with bleed intensity remaining as it currently is. In effect, you COULD still kill a dino by tail riding it for ages, but practically speaking, the core health damage done to the tail would be so small, it would be a extremely unviable target.
Effect increased tactical dynamics of 1v1 and other pvp fighting styles, increased skill necessary for making kills, decreased lazy or meta style gaming, and most importantly for me, enhanced AUTHENTICITY of gameplay.

[cunning cedar]

How do you people think Teno needs a buff or is balanced when it can nearly insta kill a carno by spamming its tail slam while the carno cant move? very skillful and balanced smh. Teno takes less time to grow than Carno keep in mind

[marble canopy]

increase hyspi's speed slightly as well as make their spit take less of their food. the spit is already very situational unless the target is sat completely still unaware of anything. so you shouldn't have such a penalty for using it. since its already a very weak dino.

[zealous rune]

i agree. i genuinely dont see hypsi's place in the game right now. the spit is near useless, it does no damage and has no health, and it's climbing mechanic is just clunky and useless.

[subtle barn]

Separated out for clarity.
Suggestion: current herbivores who bite should deal a bit less damage with their bite than they do. There’s no way a plant eater with their little plant eating mouths should be dealing as much damage as a freaking raptors bite. Even if the amount of force behind the bite is the same, a different TYPE of mouth, SIZE of mouth, and teeth makes a difference. It’s like the difference in damage a scissor cut would make on a hand, vs what a toe nail clipper could make. The “mouth” of the clipper is too smaller to do much damage.
Herbivores should be depending on their other defenses, not their puny bite.(depending on the herbivore. Obviously there are exceptions).

[red ibex]

Either nerf the amount of food spent on a hypsi spit, or make its size bigger to make it easier to hit. Hypsis spit is a very situational ability, and rarely does allow you to escape a threat due to your medium speed and bright colors, as well as the fact that the rubbing the spit off your eyes animation is very short. Hypsis only real special attribute that makes it viable, is the fact it can jump up into trees to escape carnos, only carnos. Your doomed by utahs since they can jump up and insta kill you with one bite (from a utah mind you). Ptera is coming too, and it will have little problems against a hypsi in a tree or just hypsi in general.

[marble canopy]

also to go along with my other hyspi suggestion, when it has a full grow cycle. make its growth time less then dryos. maybe 15-20. something very quick because it's not really worth anymore then 30+ minutes due to its lack of doing really anything lol.

[cunning cedar]

Deino shouldn't have a get up animation or should have a very fast one as crocodilians and alligators are always aware of their surroundings even when asleep by keeping one side of their brain active

[cunning cedar]

Carno has half of its health taken away after being hit at the tip of its tail by a stego's thagomizers, Please fix the locational damage for Carno in that case.

[full lantern]

Stego bite is just a meme at this point, remove it and replace it with stegos current jab, and make it so you can jab while running/walking. Stego’s main attack being a tail swipe similar to the old tail swipe, you can choose whether it goes left or right. This attack would be pretty powerful, dealing lots of damage but not as much bleed as the jab. Plus, this swing would be very quick

[neon cloud]

carno bodycheck too weak to the point its unusable against medium size enemys ... far less dmg than a bite attack .. stuns the user himself after impact ...as a carno u die onehit against stego and are barely able to kill 1 utah ..thats an apex of the patch right there

[sacred vale]

Not sure if this is known by the devs, but carno has a weird property to its charge where holding the right camera angle while charging lets you turn super tightly. Doesn’t seem intended

[cunning cedar]

Have Deino be a 6 hour grow or less if it can't even take on a Stego, Why make a grow 3 hours more than a Dino that can quite easily slap it? Atleast buff deino to take on stegos if its a 8 hour grow, 8 hours is VERY long.

[fierce parcel]

Suggestion: Give teno better speed, swim speed, and stam. Better jump too

Reasoning: It's not the greatest fighter so it should have a way to just escape because it's pathetically slow rn. Maybe around a 50% stam increase (can't outrun carno speed or stam wise. It's forced to fight most of the time). Way better swim speed (Utah is faster than teno in water which shocked me). Better running speed (it hardly outruns a hypsi)
A better jump might be coming since it got a new animation. The current teno jump is sad and pretty much useless. It is just about the same size as a horse so I think it'd be nice if it jumped like one too.

[modern quail]

Tenonto's kick is a little broken. The kicking animation could use a small nerf, basically Teno should have either a cooldown of 2 seconds or a slower kick animation. This is because (again) there is no cooldown for the kick and it surprisingly has some range, so I hope that some kind of Teno nerf is coming in update 3, because it's broken lol.

[native nacelle]

Alright guys, what the heck are you expecting? Tenonto is unbalanced as hell on some of their stats. There are situations right now where Tenonto is unable to escape or fight! This has to be dealt with. (I HAVE DONE HOURS OF PLAYTESTING with my friends, so everything said here is confirmed & tested and not just shitpost/rant)

Tail Stun needs a buff regarding the amount of time of the "stun" effect. On our playtest, we found out a perfect tail slam attack on the head of a Carnotaurus stuns it for less than two seconds. Which makes the attack basically useless, since Carnotaurus can quickly accelerate again and catch up with the slower Tenontosaurus that couldn't go too far. So my suggestion here is to increase the time of the tail slam attack.

Another problem here is the stamina, which lasts very little; In a world where most predators are faster than it, Tenonto should make up for stamina and endurance, just like real horses.

And the last thing is the jump: As my friend said above, the jump really needs an overhaul. I don't know how much you, dear reader, play Tenontosaurus, but it's jump is so useless that it could be actually removed and I wouldn't notice; Tenonto definitely needs a higher jump!

[vocal nacelle]

@native nacelle

I'm putting this here because it has some feedback that I think should be worked/fixed and it most likely is.

Teno is the best balanced creature in Evrima. Carno can 50/50 Teno as of now and that can change with Update 3. I do think that Carno needs heavy adjustments to it's movement with the A,S,W,D keys and acceleration/deceleration. It's hitboxes can be very off when you get hit on the tip of tail by a Teno and Stego. Stego needs serious buffs in attacks and it needs a swing attack as it's primary right click attack and Left Alt attack being the tail jab. Update 2's animal hitboxes are just fucked up and they need to be fixed.

[native nacelle]

Since you guys seem to disagree with buffing some of Tenonto's stats with reasons to say so, we all need to agree that at least it could use a higher jump, since it is functionally useless as of now (before pinging me to rant about how decent their jump is, at least go test a bit. It has been nerfed.) , and, perhaps, a stamina pool buff.

[full lantern]

The game should not be balanced solely on smalls, eventually, when everything is added and there are more large dinos, larger dinos like stego and deino, should be buffed since the roster isnt so small and primarily consisting of then.

[full lantern]

I can’t believe I have to say this, but Dryo needs some tweaking regarding attacks.

Dryo currently kills Utah’s in small flocks. This is absolutely ridiculous considering it’s attack isn’t a kick, nor a bite. It’s a peck, a tiny one at that. Not to mention, dryos can also kill a stego in under 10 minutes with headshots with it, this is ridiculous and should definitely be tweaked.
Dryos bite force is currently 75, which is way too much, give Dryo 5-20 at most so it doesn’t kill pretty much everything on the roster

[clever solar]

I think if anything should be tweaked with the Dryo it should be it's hitbox. It's very hard to accurately hit something unless you're both standing still because the head hitbox is so unreliable.

[cunning cedar]

When Teno is buffed I think its fair for the damage the tail does gets nerfed a little bit or has a slight cooldown to prevent spamming considering it can kill a carno once stunned by spamming the tail slam. its the only nerf i ask for unless the tail slam gets a rework depending on which part of the tail hits you because getting stunned by the tip of a tenonto's tail doesnt make much sense

[full lantern]

Currently, there’s a blaring issue with deino from what we have been told about its lunge, it’s not tug of war.

The tug of war system would allow room for failure for the both the deino and the victim, and would be new and fresh to the game. Plus, the tug of war system would prohibit you from dragging anything to heavy in the water, which is good.

However, apparently you guys scrapped the idea, because groups would just wail on the deino if it ever were to lunge. If the deino lunges into a group head on, that’s on the deino if it dies. It chose that choice, and got the result. Deino could simply wait for one to get into deeper water and get it, lunge at a smaller member of the herd/pack like a juvi, or outright leave.

The tug of war system would make it much better than simply “hold Rmb to win” like pounce. Remember, it’s on the deino if it decides to lunge someone surrounded by people, it should die then. But it can always lunge at let’s say, a juvi in the herd so it can go faster, wait for them to go deeper, or leave outright. Just because the group might wail on the deino if it lunges into one of them, doesn’t mean the tug of war system has to be removed. Since the deino has plenty of alternatives to feed itself, from the group or not.

[sweet rivet]

Reduce carnos turn so solo and small utah packs have a better chance of coexisting with carnos since carnos are faster with a decent turn making out manuvering them hard after all arent utahs meant to be agille to out manuver things that can kill it

[brazen harbor]

Once humans are implemented, I suggest that the player is limited to first person view only. For one, it's not natural to see something behind you sneaking up and puts you more paranoid of attack and immersion is better. Also humans will have many tools and weapons available, best for balance a human can't see behind them to a dino sneak attack too.

[severe hornet]

No idea if I'm in the right place here. But PLEASE put que's in the servers. So we don't have to go barbaric with trying to get in a server

[astral flax]

Haven't even been able to grow a deino past 50 percent. people really will go out of their way to kill a fresh spawn lol. I haven't been able to find a single hidey hole or swamp or cave that a larger deino has not been able to follow me into, it might just be me, but it's really hard to navigate and know where things are now.

[gaunt kite]

The dam might be leaking 😄

[lavish tundra]

Deinos bite force while it grows is pitiful. At all stages of life alligators and crocodiles have immense bite forces. Having a deino that weighs 2000 kg that only has a 165 n bite force is absurd even month old crocodiles and alligators in real life have enough bite to rip fingers and sometimes hands off people. I know they want then to be balanced and fair but this is to much. The deinosuchus holds the title for one of the strongest bite forces in history and at this size it’s bite has the same damage output of a Utah.

[hollow oasis]

Also Deino's stam regen might need a slight buff. While the stamina drain when you sprint on land seems reasonable, you lose stam very quickly but regen it slowly. It's just painful. I understand that this is necessary to balance Deino but I feel like juvies and subs should have a better stam regen than that.

[gleaming yoke]

I believe that Deino is very easy to grow right now, take that as a plus or a downside but I think it should be harder to grow one, especially during the Juvi stage.
Been sitting in a bush for 4 hours now, occasionally going out to get Elite Fish, leaving it on the shore and eating whatever comes to eat from it.

I think many assume that 5 hours is "hard mode" but its quite the opposite.

[faint wigeon]

juvie deino has no chance at escaping a sub adult/adult deino. they outspeed you in the water and while you do outspeed them on land, they just need to be persistant and will catch up to you in their walk speed. if it had just a little more stam regen, it wouldve been fine to stay just out of reach from them.

[marble canopy]

ptera needs to consume less stamina, especially when flying, their whole thing is flying and it seems to get drained extremely quick

[hot zephyr]

Ptera needs better stamina regeneration or consume less stamina. It should also regain stamina while just gliding.

[slim sapphire]

ptera seems to grow in a pretty good amount of time, but sprinting in particular shouldn't cost nearly as much stamina as it does. It should also be able to regen stam much quicker while gliding and at all ages, not just adolescent and up.

[sand oriole]

Honestly, im going to go against what has been stated here and say that Ptera stamina as adult is fine, and it could honestly have the sub-adult time be increased a bit. Right now it seems the Ptera grows a bit to fast compared to the utility it has.

[leaden yarrow]

Pteras stamina is in a very good place as long as you use it wisely. Good job 👍🏻

[modern quail]

Pteranodon has such low stamina, it's a creature BUILT for flying, so maybe have a buff to its stamina when flying... But other than that, Pteranodon is AMAZING, I just find it weird that a creature made to soar across the sky should have BETTER stam. Ptera would be more viable if had more stam as an sub-adult and adult.

[astral flax]

I fell from a lower bit of a waterfall, as a 30 per cent deino and died instantly. Into water aswell. Please balance out their falldamage, especially into water, deep water.

[marsh skiff]

After playing Deino without being screwed by lag... Can pretty confidently say that young Deinosuchus need significantly better stamina(Or much less drain) on land than their adult counterparts, as for the time being.. It kind of feels like there's no real way to actually an adult or bigger deino in-general..

[slim sapphire]

I think dieno is a bit unbalanced as is. It only takes 5hrs to grow, which isn't all that much, and besides that theres no actual counter for it by any other animal. If you're smaller than it and happen to be within reach while its in the water, it'll kill you because you can't hear or see it AT ALL. If there were some subtle indication like light ripples (not as visible as the fish ones and differently shaped, perhaps oblong rather than round? or just a few of them above the deino when it moves) or maybe a sound cue like something is slowly moving in the water or mud, that would be more balanced so other players at least have a chance of escaping. Landed next to a river as a fully grown ptera with full health and a fairly small deino, maybe twice my size, lunged out of the water and killed me in two hits, too fast for me to take off again after the first. there just needs to be some way I can at least fool myself into thinking theres a way I can reliably go to the water and survive it, or at least a chance. As is, it feels like a gamble every time (and yes, Don, I know this is meant to be a horror game, but can you save most of the horror for the mercs and let me have my dumb seagull?)

Otherwise, absolutely love it. Controls are intuitive (though its hard to slow my descent because of where the keys are on the keyboard, I will not complain I will just bend my bones it is ok), the game is beautiful, and its extremely fun. Now that my 30 seconds of gamer rage over losing my precious seagull has subsided I still think it was a really fun play experience, despite being taken to the mat by a surprise gator. One thing I really loved in particular while playing ptera is the dive mechanic. It feels weighty and it holds its inertia, rather than feeling like you just hit a wall when you let off the ctrl key and slow down to normal speed instantly, your speed carries and I really loved how that felt playing it. Great job guys, I love it!!

[oblique wyvern]

Utah definitely still needs an acceleration boost, for one of the most agile dinos it feels really slow

[hollow ridge]

Elite fish dont seem to like moving much and is waay to easy to catch and eat.

[warped warren]

Deino imo so far seems pretty balanced, though there's one glaring issue that I'm not sure if they've mentioned a future fix to; deino can be assrode due to it being hard to turn fully around, making it possible for a single utah to assride a deino to death. I know that the devs want to further the fighting style of Isle away from legacy which is notorious for assriding, so I think a tail thrash attack would fix this.

Nothing overpowered mind you, it would either A) do minimal dmg but provide a brief slow/stagger to the opponent depending on the weight disparity between the deino and it's attacker (not nearly as good as tenonto's though), or B) do somewhat decent dmg but not provide any form or crowd control- just enough dmg to discourage assriding from smaller stuff like utah and carno.

[mental ice]

At the bottom of the rivers, you need to put bushes or logs. So that little crocodiles can hide from the big ones.

[uneven tree]

Currently, both the running start and the jump start takeoffs for ptera seem to take up basically the same amount of stam, so long as you take off the moment ptera starts flapping for the running takeoff. Even then I think it takes slightly more. This takeoff should use practically no stam at all. A way for ptera to get airborne and still has basically it's entire stam bar left. It's the riskier option because you're grounded for longer, making the jump takeoff useful in a dangerous situation. I'm pretty sure this is how it's meant to work, but for now there's basically no reason to do the running takeoff.

[stuck field]

^^ it seems to me like the running takeoff takes more stam for the running take off. Might be a bug but hopefully it gets fixed

[tall lotus]

Agree with Mr. Jack that baby deinos need some kind of edge over the adults if they're going to be confined to the same environment unprotected.

[hot dove]

The weight of Hypsi got changed from 75kg to 20kg (I think 160kg original). This is accurate but health should be increased a lot to make up for that. I didn't tested it but feels like everything that has grown for 10 min almost one shot it now.
The spit attack drains much less hunger now which is good. However i don't feel like it is worth using as a moving target is almost impossible to hit. If you miss you are stuck in the animation for like 1s so you get killed easily. But even if you hit you are stuck in the animation and the carnivore just needs to bite where the venom came from to kill you. Even a tip of the tail feathers hit usually one shots you. On top of that Hypsi is one of the slowest animals, even Tenonto is faster.
The jump is still useless in a fight because you have to charge it and it drains half of your stamina. It is also not that high to jump over most adult animals.
Only viable play style is hiding in a bush. It is obviously good in stealth because of the small size.
I know it doesn't even have growth yet, and it might become better with the talent system. But Hypsi how it is right now is kinda ridiculous.

[marble canopy]

agreed, ive made a suggestion before to increase its speed. also to have a very quick grow time. I think it could be beneficial even if the same amount of stamina is drained when you charge up and jump. but just the charge up shouldn't take as long, because like you said can't use it during a fight. poor mini bird is in a bad place

[lavish tundra]

The deino tail slap thing is a good idea. Modern crocodiles use their tails to sometimes give a lion getting to cocky a powerful slap to deter them. The strength that allows them to plow through water and propel their entire body vertically out of the water with nothing but their tail, is also very useful for self defense. And this could be used to. As someone said before get rid of the old assriding days of legacy.

[kindred rain]

Unpopular opinion but I like how Ptera doesn't have a lot of stamina. I think that helps with the problem BOB has where Ptera is essentially uncatchable. I feel like I have to play smart to ensure I don't get caught when my stamina runs out. Its a bit of a learning curve, but satisfying once you get it.

[flint chasm]

just an idea, lower the stamina usage for pteranodon. cant hardly get anywhere

[restive yoke]

I’m a little worried about deino once bigger dinos are added. Right now it feels fine because there are only Utah and ptera running around. With a hefty weight of 8tons at full growth that allows you to lunge attack anything half your weight or smaller. Which is fine I think this will cover most mid-tier dinos but i guess I was a little disappointed with the biteforce set at 500n. I just feel like it should be a bit stronger..? But then again take this with a grain of salt. I haven’t been able to hunt an adult Carno yet so this is just speculation. I can form a better opinion once the ecosystem balances out.

[safe garnet]

^ For the sake of balance, it should be kept at 500 until the bigger apexes are added.

[delicate ginkgo]

I think before anything else they need to remove the Newton’s tag, a human has 1300n of bite force

[pure needle]

Today i witnessed 2 adult Deinos fighting a Stego that went to the river Drinking. I Think i Remeber Punch saying that Stego got the Upperhand on land Combat. So i was pretty surprised when I saw that the stego stomping both Deinos in their Terretory, it kind of felt like unfair that Stego got to wallow mid fight and still hat the upperhand.
What do you guys feel about it, I would like to hear your Opinion.

[compact pelican]

All around deino feels like a pushover when a stego is in the equation. Both the inability to lunge at them and the underwhelming bite force makes deino feels like a 5ton animal instead of 8. I strongly believe it needs to be on par with stego; it should at least be a fair fight in most near-water circumstances.

[void robin]

I've played a good bit of ptera and let me tell you it is way too easy. Not the flight or combat strength. It's the growth time and food drain.
One hour may seem like a lot, but considering you are a lot less vulnerable as a juvi than most other things it's really not very hard at all. I would suggest adding upwards of half an hour to growth time so it's not basically free.
The other thing is the food- fish are not that hard to catch at all and you only really need one to grow to an adult, if even that. You can sit for a very long time and be completely fine on food, whereas I feel that should really not be the case. To add to this fish give a ridiculous amount of food even to an adult. I feel like you should have somewhere close to 1.5 or double the current hunger drain and have a single schooling fish give around 1/5 hunger to an adult. This way you have to get out of your perch more often, forcing the player to not be able to just afk all the time, especially since your growth time is so low.

[fiery vortex]

So when it comes to all the rivers and such. I do feel like there should be a few very sparse areas where the water is shallow, at least deep enough for baby deinos to hide but not the adults. Adult deinos can still stalk the deeper edges of these shallow areas and with how fast crocs in general can sprint (just google crock running, they can BOOK IT when they want to) it can still make drinking semi risky as they can still lunge and sprint at you, but it would provide at least some spots where you can approach. I've seen videos of zebra drinking from these shallower pools with a large croc stalking the deep end and those that don't still keep an eye out get caught off guard as the croc sprinted before the zebra could turn and bolt.

Could also include with it areas of 'thick mud' that dinos can slide over, but larger creatures may get slowed down as they sink a bit into it, or least not have as much traction as they try to sprint away. this could be the counter to these shallow areas as well.

[rare lichen]

Make Ptera biting hit box smaller, it can harass carnos while still being well above them

[obsidian shell]

After playing deino for 9-10 hours one thing always struck me as an issue and thats the damage, crocs always have a very strong bite and to not even be able to 1 shot a utah feels a bit weak, as for health and manoeuvrability I believe thats completely balanced, fighting carnos and utahs they could get around and grab a bite on my tail before I could react and thats fair play. I've heard word that the damage is only low because its balanced to the current roster and in that case then thats alright, but when the larger creatures come along such as rex, the damage really needs to be upped or deino is going to suffer.

[clever solar]

I agree. Full grown Deino should be able to 3-4 shot a Carno. Feels like it takes almost double that.

[uneven frigate]

yeah i agree i was almost full grown deino and i tried to fight of a carno, i put maybe 3-5 bites into him but it seemed like it didn't do much to them however they bite me with 7 bits and it kills me. So i believe they definetly need to rebalance the deino to suit the current roster so it has a better chance against the carno and the utah

[astral flax]

Gonna say this again. A 12 percent deino, I fell about a meter into deep water, sunk like a rock and died instantly. Please allow for some slack with deinos diving into water... That's like the third time I've died from the same situation.

[cunning cedar]

It takes 15 bites for a Deino to kill a Stego? it takes less for a carno to do so, Stego is so small compared to deino and deino cant even do much damage to a stego.

[dapper wyvern]

Please fix the tail movement of the deino when turning ( make the movement of the tail more slow/soft when changing direction to make it realistic )

[lavish tundra]

Deino needs a small buff so that stegos don't just stand at the edge of water because they know the deinos cant do shit about it.

But PLEASE dont take the advice of people saying it should be a fair fight, anyone with common sense would realize that since deino can choose not to engage with stego, stego should have the upper hand in most encounters (excluding when stego is swimming) and these people are missing the ENTIRE point of stego/deino.

Stego is a slow unwieldy tank meant to punish slow not very mobile carnivores like rex but not have the greatest match up against mobile mid sized pack hunting carnivores like allo and alberto.

If stego wasn't good at beating things like deino then why would anyone play it when trike exist?

Deino fits the exact description of what stego should win against, and to top that off deino isn't MEANT for combat, its a ambush hunter that focuses on drowning its prey, it's SUPPOSED to not do well against big dinosaurs like stego it's MEANT to punch down.

Basically stop whining that you got shitted on when you tried to attack something with huge spikes on its tail for a weapon, use your brain and realize that just MAYBE that isnt the safest thing to do and you should look for different prey like a real life animal would do and stop just killing everything in sight.

Ideas to make it so deino vs stego isn't as one sided as it currently is (But without overbuffing deino) :

1 - Increase deinos damage slightly

2 - Increase the amount of damage deino does with a headshot in general, that way if a stego doesn't respect a deinos space, the deino can actually do something back.

3 - When deino lunges stego maybe a tug of war like thing could happen, not sure how it would work though.

Basically I don't want stego to fear deino, I want them to respect each other and for stego to not just bully fully grown deinos.

[hollow ridge]

Honestly, pteranadon has a lot of stamina. You can travel great distances in one go as long as you fly efficienty, (aka not directly upwards).

[mental ice]

It would be nice to increase the visibility range with the growth stage of the crocodile.
Because in the adult stage, the radius of view is not much more than the length of the deyno.

[inner trout]

skimming the water as pteras should give a little amount of water together with the fish, not so much that it becomes an efficient way ofgettingwater, but jsut enough for it to make sense

[delicate ginkgo]

Stego's tail swipe needs a change. I have seen to many times stegos taking over a river from deinos as they can swipe their tails across half the river and reach the bottoms of the river with the tail swipe, the tail should not deal any damage when in contact with rivers/lakes/swamps and should come with a bigger stam penalty since the tail has to deal with the resistance of water. as a deino there is no place to hide now because of this, and the tail swipe should be used defensively not offensively. I was picked up by the spikes on the tail when I was at the bottom of a decently deep lake, stegos tails are not fishing hooks! please tell me why or why not this should be changed tl;dr stegos tail should not swing in water

[novel surge]

not sure if people have already said this but i think ptera needs more stam it takes way to much stam

[hot dove]

I think Carnos damage is too high. It is the fastest animal, specialised to hunt smaller animals. But it deals damage you would expect from an Allo. It already has the advantage of being insanely fast. Being insanely strong how it is right now is too much in my opinion.

[wheat forge]

Diemo is totally broken when it comes to other diemos. You're basically stuck to rivers, so the river is full of adults swimming up and down the river eating smaller Diemos, having to survive five or six hours or this is damright painful. However, under a server were people play KFS and don't do KOS. I think this would be very balanced.
I spent a whole five hour raising one, only for it to be killed instantly after logging out and back in a few hours later. Almost walked away from the game.

[umbral oasis]

I think ptera stam is perfect. It really did feel like learning how to fly as a hatchling/juvie -- and comes with its own risks for being unable to as easily escape when you're small -- that get smaller as you get bigger (though the risk is still there if you make a mistake or skim croc-infested waters ^_^ )

THe only tweaks I think would be to regain stamina very slooowly while gliding, maybe up to 20% like the grazing? So it's not limitless but you can spend most of your life airborne.

Or maybe add in "thermals" . Could use a similar effect as the croc water sense, maybe in orange color? and circling in that area regains stamina (could even again limit it to say 50%)

One other ptera tweak I feel is to increase our scent range. As a fisher & scavenger, plus being high in the air, I would expect to be able to scent a corpse or water from pretty far away. Even with faint dots. Flying around it seems like a smaller range than it should be imho.

[mental ice]

why not make food and water consumption dependent on dino activity? Like if you do not move, then food and water is consumed less. I think it's not difficult to make such a dependence.

[ivory ridge]

the hit box for the dieno's bite should be looked into, its like none existent. i tried to bite a tenonto and the jaw was right on him but he took no damage. i tried to bite a carno 6 times but at least 4 of the bites should have landed since i was basecly touching him with my jaw. i was playing in EU servers, i experience no lag, my computer is pretty nice so no issues would come from that just as a little side note.

[green oasis]

pteranodon should have more stamina, it was adapted to long-range flying

[dusky sigil]

When deno is fully released the bite force should be increased to like 700n instead of 500n so then a stego cant just take on denos like its nothing.

[rotund cipher]

Like in Dio’s suggestion, just increase Deino’s damage by some so that stegos don’t just sit in the water while deino’s cower in fear.

[zealous rune]

yeah i agree. i feel like deino should have at least a chance. right now stego is like, invincible. the only thing id say has a good chance of beating a stego is a skilled pack of utahs. im not sure if they added the no damage to the thagomizers yet, but when thats added carno wont have any chance. deino never had a chance because even if you get multiple bites to stegos dome it can just turn around and smoke you 💀 just make deinos at least a slight risk for stegos

[broken geyser]

Petra has potential to be a good juvie killer and cannibal (as there is currently no other fliers)
I have been testing forcing collisions and making them fall and it is really inconsistent, often you fall with them. Is it speed based?

If not then a special attack on the Ptera would be good, perhaps a dive bomb that increases damage based on speed. While strong the drawback would be that increased speed when abused drains stamina (So you recover on the ground longer as there is not enough to get somewhere too safe) and increases the chances of crashing.

I really don't want the only flier to be a fisher that ends up as Deino food. Furthermore there are plans to add Quetz. If we only have weight damage modifiers the Quetz is going to do no damage to anything other than juvies so a system put in place now is way more beneficial, meaning that the Apex of the skies can kill utahs and maybe sub mid tiers at best.
The obvious drawback being stamina management and every hit doing more damage.

Give players a counter. If the Flier is attacked it drops out of the air. This would be good for flier vs flier combat. Meaning that height, speed and positioning is a factor to survive.

I really thing that the petra and fliers in general have the potential to be really interesting to play as they have a whole 3d space and could be a good choice for practiced players.

If it sounds op it really is not. Any attack drops them out of the sky, they have shadows, perhaps give a small audio cue when one is near you and dive bombing as you can dodge it by not running in the straight line. Even the Dieno has similar interactions. It has the lunge and then is vulnerable on land while being able to hide in the water but it can kill stegos as well.
let the Ptera kill juvies, which would put pressure on the constant carno spam and give more things to worry about.

I also fully agree that stegos should not be risk free in the water. Nothing should be risk free in the water.

[modest schooner]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[unique solar]

I'm hearing Deino can't one shot Utah, which seems like a huge problem to me. It's an 8-ton gator, I feel like it should probably do the most raw damage out of any unmutated creature in the game. I think Deino is plenty restricted to allow for it to deal such crazy damage while still being balanced - Deino is incredibly cumbersome on land, it really is only powerful in the water. Which makes sense because again, it's an 8-ton gator with a bite force more powerful than a Rex.

[river roost]

Mud should stick to the dino longer. From what I can tell, wallowing can only be used as an escape from the river, as it only lasts like 30 some odd seconds

[lean sapphire]

As a fully grown Deino, it took me 3 bites to kill a juvie/small sub carno. Thats not right at all. Denio, like modern day crocodiles and alligators, should have a bite force that rivals just about any apex. They are highly restricted to water, they need to beable to one shot small drinking things so it cant run away. I dont know the evrima carnos stats, but theres no way an 8 ton gater should not 1-2 shot an adult carno. Much less 3+ bites for a juvie.

[sweet rivet]

Make full grown deinos be able to one shot utahs and 3 shot adult carnos and one shot ptera since pteras should be hollow boned and maybe reduce deino land speed as an adult or make babies faster so they have a chance

[split rampart]

I think there needs to be just a bit more shallow water that are harder for adults to submerge in, and stuff like large hollow logs, rocks, some sea flora etc for younger Deinos to hide in. If you get spotted by an older Deinosuchus who wants to kill you, there is literally nothing you can do. They are an objectively superior version of you in every way, there's no counter or anything you have.

Some sort of indication of a Deinosuchus swimming underwater is also needed I think. Maybe some very subtle ripple as they move. At the moment, it is 100% just a guessing game and just hope and pray there isn't a Deino. It adds risk and threat yes, but the utter lack of any kind of recognition of a threat just feels frustrating. If I die, I want it to feel like it's because I wasn't careful enough or my predator had just got the better of me. This coin flip doesn't feel like that, it feels like pure luck if I'm fucked or not. It'd also add a level of skill for Deinos to be more careful too and not give themselves away by just speed swimming to the bank the moment they sense movement. Drinking takes a while, especially for a thirsty individual scared of the water. it'd help Deino feel more skillful

[night crest]

deino should either replicate a modern day croc or alligator, (I.E: oneshot utah and tenoto and have a fighting chance against stegos), or take a lot less time to grow.

[native elbow]

Deino v Deino is kinda weird, i have fought a few already and all of the times it just turns into a facetanking matchup where both parties just spam lunge/bite. I've tried ambushing other deinos, but because of the turn radius and the body collision you kinda just get stuck in eachother.

Not a fan of total assriding like in legacy because it is really cheap, but facetanking and spambiting isn't really of a challenge either.

[trail heart]

Dieno fix
First off, damage fix. As a full grown dieno I shouldn't have to sit there and starve as a fresh carno tanks 2 bites and runs away (this actually happened).
Dieno at max has 500N of bite force. A real gator has 16,000N. So maybe 20,000 (this is on the lower side of the theoretical) for dieno seeing it's sheer size & strength. (Not actually saying to bring it up that high, just proving my point)
How this translates in game exactly I'm not sure, I don't coder. But I think we can agree that deino needs to do more damage.

Second off a graple change would be very nice. The smaller it is the easier it is to drag and vice-versa, to a point that if you grab somthing bigger than you it can drag you until you let go.
(Do to mechanical misunderstanding I mave corrected this)

Therd off a tail slap would be nice. Should use a good amount of stam and do more stuning than actual damage unless you got a big gator smacking a small dino then bone break would be cool. Stun should be short.
Also a satisfying slap sound would be great. Could be done in a matter of press x button tail slaps in the direction you face.

General stuff.
Eating and drinking as dieno is difficult. Fixing this would be a nice quality of life change.
As would fixing animation glitches that make you stuck.
Actual swallow animations ei fish actually going down the hatch.
Able to jump out of water more vertically.
Also a water break would be nice. Maybe make dieno spread out a bit while doing so.
Add stuff for baby dienos to hide in, theres literally nothing you can do if a full grown dieno decides he wants you, and it's a slow painfull death

As of now, dieno feels like a tank, but somthing you can just run from as literally anything but another dieno. Creating an existence of only eating fish or cannibalism.
I believe that these changes will help dieno and the overall world being created. A fun experience for everyone.
@me for questions

[fierce parcel]

Suggestion: Make more water sources, like ponds without rivers, if there aren't any already.

Reasoning: This could give dinosaurs more options rather than going to the same rivers. This could also give deinos something else to travel for and have more space away from other deinos.

[lavish tundra]

make deino lung upwards higher to take out petras https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cL0mS5chwYY&ab_channel=DirtyPolitics

[pearl zephyr]

Ptera's bite range/hitbox is way too big. I shouldn't be able to get hits on a land dino while also being out of range of opposing attacks

[fossil galleon]

This whole area -340,975.812, -691,469.938, -29,729.273 has some strange sound buffer on it. You walk into the area and your audio sounds muted/turned off. Very strange.

Also, whats up with ptera not being able to recover flight sometimes even though its at a super high height? i fell for a straight 12 seconds and couldnt recover.

[placid snow]

This idea would be amazing but I’m respawns you’d have to bless ptera with some strength in return

[lavish tundra]

We need more prey items on the map currently, and with the place that Teno is currently in. I believe that herbi's should get lower growth times across the board(Excluding Stego). Not only would this provide more circulation within the playables. It'd aid in the ecosystem and an improvement of gathering herds which would support both Utah's and Carno players. We need more interactive encounters and lately no one is really playing dryo's and hypsi's right now.

[rugged sandal]

there should be more points to get out of the river.. as soon as I enter the water I'm literally stuck inside there, no matter of far I check the edges to get out so all you can do is to drown or wait that a deino kills you

or maybe make it that you need a bit of time sometimes to get out of the water but getting stuck even the slope isnt that high is kinda stupid imo ;-;

[oblique wyvern]

100% deino....i dragged a carno 2 times into the water and bit him a lot both times he swam back to the shore, and he still didnt run away as if he had enough health to fight, that shouldn’t be the case

[lavish tundra]

I think we should implement a breathing animation, when the dino rests breathing animation is slow, when it runs the animation is faster. Also, once you run out of stamina your dino would pant, and their legs would slightly shake when stamina is around 0-5%, this would make the running more realistic in my opinion. I understand that this would probably be hard to implement, but hey. It's an idea.

[fickle moss]

Probably the situation that deino cannibalize that much and you have a problem of surviving with juvs is the overpopulation and map design.
Juvs should hide, they should not be faster then adult. Does juv utah or carno has chances agaist adult? I would say NO! They just hide.
The SOLUTION is to make swamps and wider zones in rivers, with a lot of algae, plants and fallen wood. There sould be a places where adults will have a problems to go through. Also this places would be needed for further development of aquatic species.
Overpopulation is temprorary and its normal for crocs, to cannibalise in that case.

In case of BALANCE BETWEEN SPECIES, think deino when it drags someone it should have an ability to hold it underwater for longer time. And bite should be stronger, i would say 2 deinos should be able to be dangerous for stego. And carno should not bite stronger then deino.

I understang that there was an idea that deino should use drag mechanic, but meta is working that way, that everyone want to grow big. And carnos, stegos would be very popular and nearly untouchable. Deino is the best candidade to make them play more careful and don't feel themselves to be a king before humans/rexes/allos will be introdused.

[noble minnow]

the healing for petra is bugged i got attacked was bleeding then i healed myself an i am still dying.

[finite sapphire]

The deino's mechanics, animations, and sounds are all amazing and exactly what I expected this creature to be, however as noted by others in here it certainly has some issues. For such a large creature, its bite force is very low compared to the size of other animals and it seems like it may not have enough health. Being hit 2-3 times by a stegosaur shouldn't put a deino on death's door and have to immediately pull out of a fight to heal, especially with the turning radius, a failed ambush means a steg can get multiple hits off on the deino. It's bite force also contributes to this issue a lot, in the trailer it was shown being aggressive to a rex, making it seem like a creature that should be able to reasonably damage them, but if it can't even one shot a utah, there's little chance of that happening.

The deino either needs its bite force increased and be given more health so it can reasonably attack and defend itself from more than juvies and small sub adult dinosaurs (carno and steg in particular), or when fracture is implemented, deal massive bone breaks so prey cannot easily get away. With its sheer size over everything else currently in the game, it may be a good idea to give a short stagger to anything it attacks as well, even if a lunge is not successful.

[green oasis]

ptera should grow 30 mins, it's weaker than dryo lol

[astral flax]

Stegos should not be able to accuratley hit deinos fully submerged in water. I was not able to bite the stego on the feet but it was able to shank me as i was swimming away.. hmmm.. please have a look at stego tail hitboxes

[fallen iron]

Depending on the creature, the deino's bite doesn't hit anything. it's strange to bite when the whole face is almost inside an utah's body and that utah isn't taking any damage at all. In 30 min of fighting an utah group i didn't hit once. it was funny anyways but strange.

[loud pelican]

I have played hours of Ptera now, and it is by far my favorite playable dino of the game! I love the fast growth, it feels like an actual fast paced life, like a real bird would have.
However, I do think 50 min to reach adulthood is unbalanced as I can finish growing a ptera to adulthood without needing to eat a single meal. I do love growing fast, it gives easier meat to the ecosystem when you dont have to worry losing an adult ptera---- but I think adding 20-30 minutes more to the sub-adult would balance its growth ;u;

[last drift]

I personally don't think Pteras need a grow speed nerf. They can't really fight effectively and tank nothing, so I think it's fine.

I do think so that the fish they catch should give only half the food they do. Fishing is fun but it only takes one fish to get filled up and most of the time Pteras just start hoarding fish because they are already full

[lavish tundra]

im not really sure if this should go into the balance section but it feels like it should in my opinion.

When you sit down now, (sit not sleep) you start breathing louder than if you were sleeping, and constantly from the moment you sit. i feel like this is a balance issue because it is game breaking for dinos that are trying to hide from predators they cant fight. as a small growing stego, its basically impossible to sit down at all to hide or use stealth because they can hear you breathing halfway across the map (exaggeration but still makes the point). If making you breathe loud was an attempt to stop afk/bush growing i 100% feel like it was gone about the wrong way because you have no window room where you can hide without being found. maybe start the heavy breathing after 5 minutes, or find some way to apply debuffs, but breaking stealth (which is incredibily critical to life as almost any dino) is not the right way to do it.

[hollow oasis]

This^ I got scared by my own sounds like three times when I was sitting in a bush as carno today. Legit thought something was eating from the deino body which was around 10 meters away, that's how loud the sounds are

[dusky rivet]

Having played the new testing branch and it's content for some time now, I think balance is generally in a very good spot but there is one area where it could be notably improved. Map changes have made forests even denser and grassland plains even more open, and they are generally much more seperated from each other than the previous form of the map where one would more or less bleed into the other. I have found this has led to a huge surge both in the carnotaurus population, and also in demonstrating the existing issue they possessed; legacy carno was very well balanced due to having high mobility but low turning ability; the evrima carno is even more mobile and more damaging, but has a significantly better turn radius. As a result, they completely dominate the open areas of the map, forcing raptors, tenontos, and the small herbivores into the forests. Given that there is minimal prey AI in the forests for raptors to eat, and poor visibilty due to the foliage, dinosaurs rarely stay in the forests for long and try to play in areas with higher visibility, bringing them back into carno territory. Essentially right now carnos have a strangehold on the terrestrial meta due to their incredible stat lines; raptors are completely inferior outside of their ability to jump and tenontos struggle get to full growth due to carnos in the plains, croc infested waters, and raptors picking them off in the tree line. The old map was able to handle this slightly better due to a more varied mix of terrain instead of hard cut areas, allowing raptors easier access to woods to hide in, but the problem still remains that carnos have needlessly good turn radius. I think greatly reducing heir ability to turn while running, and a stronger deceleration effect when slowing to prevent instant stopping and turning would greatly benefit all species; carnos are so good that a nerf would not kill them, and it would increase viability of raptor and tenonto.

[uneven tree]

Def think growth times for a few things could do with being adjusted. Teno in particular needs to be lowered. I understand keeping it at 2 hours for now while the roster is smaller and it's one of the strongest herbis, but as the roster increases and 1. More carnivore threats are added and 2. more herbis that can do what teno does better are added, teno really should be a faster grow. It's a pretty small herbi all things considered, meant to fight smallish carnis like utah and carno. 2 hours is incredibly arduos and just plain unfun. 1 hour 30 minutes feels like it could be reasonable, in particular once we get maia and para.
The 5h growth for stego and deino are fine so long as they're buffed as more dinos are added so they're suitably apex.
Dryo feels a little on the slow side, but that might just be because of how useless they are as babies.
Like teno, carno could do with being lowered a bit as more is added. 2 and a half hours is a lot for something that is only really meant to hunt smaller fast stuff.
Utah's growth is ok, but maybe could be a reduced a small bit as more is added, though not much tbh. They're not particularly powerful on their own, their power comes from packs.
Hypsi... is hypsi. Once it's growth is added, it really shouldn't take very long at all. Like 30 minutes tops.
*Forget to add, ptera is fine imo. They're useless fighters, so being fast to grow makes sense

[steel ravine]

As an overall balance to the game I think oxygen needs to regenerate faster. It doesn’t have to be instant but it takes so long that it feels like however long you were holding your breath you have to be breathing on land for that long.

Oxygen should recover 3x faster than the rate you lose it minimum in my opinion.

Oxygen recovery mostly effects aquatic creatures as land creatures generally don’t want to be in water long enough to see the oxygen meter anyway.

But Dieno is is shifting from hiding to ambush all the time, and if he has to spend too long surfaced to breath it can completely ruin any surprise element that there was because you’re spending too long recovering oxygen.

[forest pewter]

a full size croc, just ran me down on land as a 10% stego, not sure if that should be a thing

[lavish tundra]

To help with the overpopulation of adult deinos (or carnivores in general) perhaps make cannibalism give much less food than anything else? Not really sure about this one in all honesty, but I do know it would definitely help with deinos specifically. I heard Dondi said they needed to make Deino growth harder, but in reality, all it is, is a bunch of people cannibalizing until they reach adult. If cannibalizing isn't worth it (whether because of risk or because it doesn't do much), then it might be done less often and more deinos will be less likely to make it to adult... however even then if cannibalizing simply gave less food, then it might encourage more mass killing.

Perhaps instead of giving less food, make bodies of your own species inedible. Issue with this however... is adult deinos using baby deinos bodies as bait in water, to get other carnivores to come in and get the body (which could actually be a plus anyway). Or worse yet, starving to death when there a ton of bodies of your own species lying about. But idk, just some thoughts about it.

If something like this were to ever become a thing, I don't think it would ever be a permanent solution, but it could be useful as a temporary solution until the perk system is in, using that system to try and discourage cannibalization if possible.

[loud granite]

Deino bite should be increased to somewhere around the 1,000N mark because a carno is able to kill a deino with ease, on land obviously. Having played deino for most if not all my time on the stress test they are quite weak unless the thing they are fighting is able to be one shot. It also takes like 8 bites from an adult deino of which weighs 8 tonnes and has 500N (which isn't a very strong bite for a croc) to kill a carno, I also think if you were to not change the bite force or health maybe make it so the deino can actually drag players into the water to drown them after hitting a succesful lunge.

[sweet hound]

^ Do NOT, by any means, increase it to 1000N. Not until we actually see the rex ingame. 1000N means the deino can probably face tank a stego and win while the stego can barely defend itself.

It should atleast be increased to 600N or higher, but not 1000N, not until we see apexes in the game.

[wild silo]

I think the Dienosuchus should be able to damage a creature throughout the whole head and not just the very front of the jaws.

[still goblet]

currently bleeding doesn't affect your health, that makes combat less interesting and makes bleeding something out impossible as long as they wallow when they have the tiniest amount of blood left

[pallid notch]

I think the deino's collision box should be a tad bigger to prevent smaller dinos to get under you with no way of defending yourself.

[hollow ridge]

Bleed should not only decrease stamina recovery but also stamina drain. Even though you increased how much dinos bleed it still doesnt have an effect on stamina in combat like its supposed to. It only makes dinos take longer to regen stam after a fight.

[wide crown]

1 Stego attacked my group of 4 Deinos all Full Adults and guess who won? The Stego with not even a scar. Debuff the Stego Devs or buff the Deino.

[vast wadi]

currently, the stego has a lot of problems against animals like utahraptor and carnotaurus, and deino has a lot of problems against those same animals, so i'd suggest to buff the deino's damage to up to 1000 in order to 1 shot a utah, and to buff stego's damage at the same time to not completely change the balance between these 2.

[bleak forum]

I don't know if it should be a balance suggestion, but I saw that if Pteranodon gets hite while flying it doesn't fall.

Almost a single hit on Pteranodon should be a death sentence as it is a super fragile animal, and in The Isle it has some PvP posibilities, which is absurd, so as a solution, any hits while flying could make it crashes so you don't have a Pteranodon harrassing a Utahraptor or any small sized (Pteranodon is even tiny sized), taking a hit and then flying away to regen and coming back.

[wooden escarp]

I guess some people already wrote this. In my opinion I think deino should get buffed for one shoting utahs and also to be a fair match up against stego. It doesnt make sense that a 4 hour grow time dino is way stronger than a 5 hour grow time dino. The stego has to be nerved or the deino to be buffed, anyways its unbalanced right now.

[modern quail]

Dieno get's bodied by Stegos, so maybe increase the damage of dieno by a little?

[humble pendant]

I generally agree with the sentiment that Deinosuchus shouldn't be so abysmally weak versus Stegosaurus. As it stands currently, the matchup is favored far too heavily in the Stegosaur's favor.

Personally, I believe that Deinosuchus should be a threat to a Stegosaurus, but that the Stego should win most 1v1s as long as it doesn't get ambushed and get its' head cronched. Stegosaurus is a borderline apex animal, and should be balanced as such, where Deinosuchus is more suited to ambushing medium-sized creatures, and is less capable of outright brawling apexes.

**Increasing Deinosuchus' bite force to around 650N **(or somewhere in that range) would make the the croc more dangerous, killing a Stego in 6 bites instead of 8, without making it a murder-machine that would just face tank everything in the game.

[plain laurel]

We need more water on the new map. Preferably ponds on the central plain and on the western side close to the Sea.

[zenith minnow]

Fully grown Deino should 1 shot an adult Utah, 5 shot an Adult Carno and 10 shot an Adult Stego (not counting lunge attack, just Mouse1). Bite force raised to 650-800 would not only make it more realistic but it would make sense from the perspective of a utah, having high mobility in order to outplay a lurking Deino. Deino's stamina on land feels good as he is fast but will run out of stamina really fast, rewarding the playstyle of hiding in the water and lunging out on unsuspected dino's drinking water. I was in a pack of 5 adult Tenonto's versus 1 Adult Deino and on land the Deino feels really outmatched by multiple dino's because of his slow turning and everytime he would go back in the water we were able to get 2-3 hits on him. As I said earlier you guys have done a great job of rewarding the sneaky Deino playstyle.

[red crow]

Deino definitely needs a buf given crocs today can do 16k newtons per square inch just seems wrong that four deinos don't stand a chance against one stego whether it's now or when more bigs get in otherwise it's just a fun baby/bird snatcher

[rain verge]

Deino's air should resupply faster. It does not take several minutes to take a few breaths

[marble canopy]

to add to the ones suggestion above with the ponds. we need some very shallow small ponds. somewhere where deinos can't necessarily hide in but also somewhere where future smaller semi aquatics like the beipi could thrive in

[lavish tundra]

I have two main issues with the current Deino. 1) the bite force is way off, given the kind of damage a croc does today as said by Blazin in the above comment, it should not be easily killed by an adult carno and it should not take that much effort to kill an adult stego. If the bite force isn't up'd then at least give the Deino bone break as I don't see how an adult Deino wouldn't break bone with the amount of bite force a Deino would have had. 2) if a Deino had the ability to pull an adult rex into the water with the lunge (that's just what I heard through the grape vine of a possiblity for the Deino) then how is it possible that we can't pull a stego body from the water onto the embankment?

[wise cave]

Full adult Deino, lost to a Stego while utilizing proper hitbox positioning (forcing him to hit my tail if unable to evade), same Stego killed 4 other Deinos on NA7 at a shallow part of the river just camping and killing everyone trying to pass. Unsure how fast Stegos heal too because as I am writing this, the Ptera watched the same Stego kill two more adult Deinos. So could be Deino's damage/HP or could be Stego's. Really unfortunate, the 87% Deino with me also died to it after. I'm not a fan of how imba Rexes were in Legacy but I think balancing/buffing Deinos is needed. Not sure how but it just didn't feel right. The map might also be an issue because so many areas with water are extremely skinny and on most servers it allows bigger herbivores to camp-kill any Deinos they see in turn preventing the rest of the players from getting information to properly return as feedback.

[mental ice]

I think the whole problem deyno is not really a weak bite, but a hard-to-implement grip.
Problems:
-Limit 50% of the mass
-Weird little hitboxes
-Not everywhere can you push off to capture
-Not a very long dash.
-And players do not drink water for more than 5-10 seconds (how to arrange an ambush here?)
Therefore, it is necessary to slightly change the jerk, and not the bite force.

[feral elm]

Suggestion, Deinosuchus should drain stamina faster on land the larger it gets as well as potentially move slightly slower on land the heavier it gets. Say peak speed/stamina regen is 65-75% grown, from there it very minimally goes down until the reduction caps at 100% grown. Basically once the deino is too big to reasonably remain unnoticed by larger deinos it has a chance to survive by giving those large deinos space and forfeiting that section of river to them.

[lavish tundra]

Stegos need a ~~massive nerf ~~- okay maybe not massive, but some sort of a nerf, their survivability versus a group of 5 adult deinos is a bit ridiculous

[orchid acorn]

Deinosuchus needs a much bigger biteforce than what it has especially since its an ambush predator. 500N is currently 20-40x lower than an irl deinos would of been.

[sonic kettle]

Stegos were able to cross a river filled with deinosuchus we all attacked and somehow the stego still lives while crossing in water and seriously injured multiple deinos. Like deinos should have the advantage in water yet somehow stego just tanks through all our damage and lives.

[indigo ice]

Deinosuchus attack power needs a slight increase. As of now, 1 Stegosaurus can easily kill a group of fully grown deinosuchus. 1 or 2 I can understand, but a 1 v 4 still being in Stegosaurus favour is a little much. An increase to bite force to allow deinosuchus to kill a Stegosaurus in 1 or 2 less hits is all that it needs right now. Stegosaurus should not be nerfed.

[harsh kindle]

Stego didnt ment to be the attacker but the attacked lmao

[bleak forum]

I don't know if it should be a #balance-feedback or a #general-feedback but I will put it there.

So, I saw some footages of Deinosuchus vs some creatures and I saw a lack of collision for it : you can pass through almost the whole animal which can be abused by small creatures with really tiny hit boxes. In the hope that it will be corrected in the next patch, there is a video of a juvenile Utahraptor fighting a Deinosuchus : https://youtu.be/Y0wNm_DZ1E8

Also do not take care of the PvP ability of this Deinosuchus player, it clearly sucks as it doesn't use the alt bite.

[zealous rune]

I noticed that sometimes when I bite something as deino, it doesnt even count as a bite. On top of that, the hitboxes seem finicky a lot of the time. Hopefully this is fixed soon because it’ll make deino feel much better.

[sinful pebble]

Another look at utah would be nice, might just be because of ptera/deino swarm that happens with new dinos, but theres not much out there for a juvi utah to eat. I think either the growth time needs to be lowered or it should eat faster/ get more from meat chunks as its kinda a hard grow right now. They eat so slowly I usually end up starving as one even if I do something since they're easily pushed off by the other preds

To add, I'm an adult utah just stole 5 fish from a ptera flock, ate a young one too and that only filled me a little over half

[pine grove]

First of all Petra matures too fast for how good it is, if you ask me. I think it should take longer and maybe a juvie should be able to climb trees or sumthn.
On an unrelated note: what if wallowing made stamina regen faster?

[winter flax]

Please fix carno running straight to a tree when a utah pounces them. it's literally just dumb. a carno just steps toward a tree and the utah falls and cant get back up.

[spring gull]

Please make the Deinosuchus growth shorter. Nobody wants to wait 5 hours not really doing anything just to become a dinosaur.

[high cove]

WHY IS IT SO HARD TO LEAVE THE WATER!

seriously, l keep drowning just trying to get out as a carno, give us a scramble up mechanic or flatten the ledges, even waters edge that has grass going into the water where you assume it'd be safe, nope, drop right in and just walk along the shore trying to find the one flat surface my not full grown carno can get a eprch on.

it's not fun, its not rewarding, it doesn't promote a better playstyle (what is there to get good in?) and with all the crocs its just a death sentence for trying to drink.

lm a bit frustrated at losing my juvi dinos to trying to drink

[forest pewter]

Also why are there so many giant cliff faces, WHY? It's just a huge part of the map for new people to get trapped in. the whole shoreline, the giant mountain that you just fall off of and die, for some reason the banks of the swamp are just impassable. How are such large parts of the game giant no fun barriers

[formal thistle]

If the deinos lunge auto kills a dino the dino should go into the deinos mouth like as if it was a bite if its able to be carried

[still goblet]

deino bite force is fine, you're supposed to pull stuff into water and drown them, not sprinting on land and bite everything to death. for once the game is actually balanced and not like legacy apex plague land where rex and gigas one shot everything

[winter pollen]

I don't think deino bite force is okay at all. They can't even kill a Utah in one-two bites beign full grown.

[mental ice]

I forgot to write one more problem of Deinosuchus when capturing. Deinosuchus cannot lock onto a target that is in the water, and this is a VERY serious problem. It needs to be changed urgently.

[exotic sky]

somehow everyone who posts has the most urgent problem with the game ^^

[noble minnow]

Don't no if people would agree but i think the utahs pouncing ability shouldn't be exclusive to 100% adult it literally only means of defence against bigger juveniles/ other bigger species. I think a cool addition would be that all bbys have to learn there unique abilities from witnessing others of there species preform them , like charging , swinging tail, etc...

[acoustic aurora]

I dont know if it was a bug or not but it took me 5 bites as an adult deino to kill a baby stego, the health of adult stegos is fine but maybe nerv baby stegos health a but still let the adults have the same amount of health

[upbeat plume]

Deino needs a redo on certain aspect, what should be a fun ambush hunter, has become the biggest pain in the ass to play, you are punished for trying to be stealthy because you cant even hold your breath for that long, and apparently takes nearly half that time to get the 02 meter to go back to full, in that time you are usually spotted and they move off...
secondly, bite force and grappling, ok so adult deino has a pretty pathetic bite of only 500N???, now sure let that be fore the standard bites, but for our lundge bite that needs to be 1500N at least, this way we are actually damn rewarded for landing this things ambush, telling me some near 40FT river monster slamming its jaws with nearly twice the force of a rex isn't going to clap a adult stego if it gets the head, that mf should be sent to the damn shadow realm my guys.
I am not asking you guys to make all this without costs, you can increase stam cost for lunge so it actually means something when you miss, you can also make stam drain higher for larger deinos and less for the smaller ones ( heavier they are harder to run right? ) they can also do with the ability to leap out of water ( pretty sure you guys mentioned this not exactly sure ) but if so can only be done in water that is at least half as deep as you are long, so meaning larger deinos need deeper water to perform this, and this will require at least 1/3 of the total stam to perform, making deino a more skillful creature to play that rewards timing and patience!

[rare lichen]

Stench of Death:
So it’s become apparent that body guarding is just as big an issue with herbivores as it was in the past. So I would like to propose a “stench of death” mechanic. This would in essence make it so that as an herbivore(omnivores do not count), the longer you stay near a corpse, the smell of death will gradually make your animal more uncomfortable and antsy.
Think of it kind of like how in Red Dead Redemption 2, when your horse is spooked it starts to become really upset and antsy, becoming harder to control. This won’t affect your ability to move just more so your combat ability. This makes it more difficult to effectively body guard for hours as herbivores who really have no business doing so.

[rotund iron]

Spawn killing is a major issue when everyone spawns in the same area.
Raptors and crocks just wait for new spawns. and either track them down immediately or kill them on the spot.

[sonic kettle]

Give deino a water lunge it can use while swimming to drown dinos swimming across. I dont see why swimming dinos should be safe from deinos lunge/grab

[slow falcon]

I think Deinos need increased pack limit as in real life crocodiles and alligators are 'pack' animals. You see them all the time in large groups effectively and the hunt together. Perhaps 5-6 group size?

[still goblet]

utah health might need a small nerf, it can take a croc hit or stego swipe and walk away which doesn't match utah's small size and light weight

[hollow ridge]

Decrease dryo growth from 45 min to 30. Dryo right now just feels inferiour to pterandons which only takes 15 more minutes to grow but have a lot more going for it.

[keen halo]

Either decrease Deino's size or make the bite stronger, at least just enough so it can 1 shot one utah, considering the fact that he's like 12 times smaller than you. Right now the deino feels like a 4 tone crocodile. It doesn't seem right to 2-3 shot an utah, when you are supposed to have the highest bite force among apexes. (Basic bites, not lunge). It's too weak, please.

[vast wadi]

So either Deino gets waaaaay too little food from small fish, or small fishes give too little food to anything except for ptera, even as a deino it takes way too much effort to catch a small fish, but when you do catch them, you get almost no food from it, even as a 20% baby

[formal thistle]

so deino should get a swimming grappel for instance a carno is swiming and at this time all we can do is bite it and hope we kill it before land or hope we can lunge it once it reaches land, idea would be making hold lmb down and it would hold dinos so you can the try and drown just like the way holding rmb, this will allow deino to have another option to drown things besides lunge since thats how deino is supposed to hunt

[storm sierra]

My personal thought when i first saw the deino was that it was supposed to pose a real threat to the apexes.. And seing it die in droves to a single adult stego for me is heartbreaking... As of writing this I am watching a sole stego on EU6 single handledy kill 5 adult deinos 3 juvies and 2 babbus without looking worse than 50% of its max health. If yall see that as balanced on an 5 hour dino that is locked to ambushing and waterways i dunno if you are using your thinking caps proper

[lavish tundra]

Nerf adult deinos land speed and its stamina

It would give juvie deinos more of a chance to survive and punishes land deinos harder.

Also make rivers deeper on average

[clever solar]

Everyone saying that deino should just stay in the water and be safe.

I've been killing Deinos in the water all day with my mates as Carnos. Catch one alone in the river and you can swim in and tank the bites (as long as it's not full grown) and kill it. If it's an adult, just bring a pack mate of two.

Deinos can't lunge at Dinosaurs in the swimming animation, so as a Carno you're mostly safe for as long as you have back up by the time you need to climb to shore.

With 3 Carnos we killed 32 large Deinosuchus. 11 were full adults. Most of them were water kills in the river heading from Pocket Pool.

I don't want Deino to 1-shot everything. But I don't want it to be a pushover.

1. Let Deino lunge at swimming targets

2. Increase the biteforce to 650-700.

[forest pewter]

Nerf fall damage

[rain shell]

Give deino a chance to defend himself while in land. He can't even kill a Utah or make a carno go away when fighting. He don't look like a crocodile, he looks like a little lizard.

[velvet stone]

Been playing Ptera quite a bit and its a shame that its gameplay is basically identical to legacy Utah(aka just get to a high/unreachable place and sit there until you grow to a more "viable" state) which is partly due to its, imo, absurd stam drain when trying to gain altitude while flying. Personally I feel that Ptera's stam drain should function similarly to how it is when you repeatedly jump as a utah (basically it starts out very negligible, but it gets worse the longer you try to gain altitude). Ptera should also regen roughly the same amount of stam you get from walking/trotting around while gliding to provide some incentive to fly more often and gives the Ptera the ability to escape from possible danger when attempting to skim for fish assuming the Ptera is low on stam which happens very often for the younger stages.

yes im aware Ptera is just glorified spectator but I'd like there to at least be a little incentive to be more active than what Ptera's currently are

[split surge]

Great mechanics n all for all dinos, the movements giving dinos weight and life. However.. it would be very nice for people to see it in full 60 fps instead of the unoptimized laggy mess the game is currently. So maybe better optimization is needed for the game? Because the way it is now.. means only flawless, brand new, top of the line PC's can run the game on low settings. And also, maybe add a slightly easier way to spot deino's in the water. Because the way it is now, it's like Russian roulette with 5 bullets in the chamber. The bullets being a deino, and the empty slot being the one safe spot at the water where deino's just left. Just a suggestion.

[lethal iron]

Utah and ( and maybe tenonto) growth time should be lowered to around the same time it takes to grow a ptera. Right now in both the EVRIMA and beta branch, these creatures are on the weaker and more uncommon side, but do really well in large numbers. Having shorter growth times may encourage players to be less afraid to play these creatures, as there will be overall less risk of “wasting time” growing these dinos

[noble minnow]

Using procedural animations could limit or prevent clipping when smaller Utah's pounce on larger individuals. I would also think the tree climbing concept should not be exclusive to adults since its primary use is to evade predators.

[timber pilot]

a stego shouldnt be able to hit a ptera above its back.

[tardy crypt]

I watched a Sub deino (possibly fresh adult) square off with an adult carno, threw 5 or so bites that should have easily been that carnos death. the carno spam bit and the deino had to retreat to water then come back a second time for 3 more bites before the carno died. Deino should not be that weak. This was a point blank face to face unmoving click match type biting too not a dodge game.

[timid pelican]

do not increase the damage for deinosuchus, instead improve its hitboxes for its bite, alt bite, and lunge so they hit more reliably, increasing its damage will only unbalance the entire game, i dont think anybody worth their thoughts wants deino 2 shotting a stego

[sly umbra]

Buff deino damage to 750, and nerf utahs health to 750. Deino should one shot a utah, i mean just look at the size of those jaws clamping on a raptor. but 1000 amage per hit is way too much for the balance of the game to handle. this wold mean if a deino was to go inland, its still going to get clapped by a stego, but it should stop stegos also literally sitting in the water and deino cant do anything. especially since they are both the same time to grow, near the water should be deinos advantage and right now it doesnt feel like it. Pouncing on juvies also wont sustain a full grown Deinosuchus

[worthy depot]

Yo we had five adults and 10+ other juvies and sub deinos trying to kill a single corpes guarding stego. We could not kill it. The only thing that is scared of deino is smaller deinos and the flying popsicle stick dinosaurs. People have been complaining about cannibalism, and at first I didn't really understand why I kept getting eaten. These danger logs hungry tho.. you can sail around for an hour and find like 2 fish. I really tried hard not to kill any of these babies but there is absolutely no way to survive without eating your own kind, whether you eat the remains of the babies other people have already killed or if you kill the baby yourself. Me and a couple friends were out wandering the long shallows and we found a tinanto which we each bit multiple times and we could not kill it. I think deinos should be able to grab the tinantos, one-shot utahs, grab carnos, and I think there should be a little more fish. I think eating your same species should also give like half the food, ya know, energy exchange and all. Something else that would be way cool would be water rise and fall.

[paper harbor]

from my experience with update 3 i would recommend - Deinosuchus bite force to be buffed to 650N - Utah bleed needs a nerf (1 utah can bleed a stego in 5 minutes) - Tenonto needs a growth timer shorten to 2h - Carno needs a longer acceleration to full speed

[last drift]

You know Deino is a lil too weak when one bite of a sub doesn't kill a Hypsi instantly and only takes half of it's health.
I think it's a little strange, when a Deino bites me, I get to run a mile away, wallow and just heal like nothing happened.
I do think Deino needs a stronger bite, a Hypsi shouldn't be able to get away that easily.

[keen halo]

Please, for the love of god, slightly increase deino's bite force, he's performing like a 4 tone deinosuchus (if not worse). On small target there's a 70% chance of missing ur lunge because it's not working right, and your only option is to bite, and the bite is so god damn bad, its like a roided 8 tone carnotaurus. Please guys, i beg u. Just a slight increase so you can at least one shot small targets, such as utahs.

[twin jasper]

Got attacked as a fresh spawn stego, face tanked a decent sized carno and i took no damage, killed it pretty fast. For some reason i was completely immune to damage

[safe torrent]

Vocals trail off weird. Instead of only hearing the growling at a distance, you should only hear the vocal part of a roar. Like legacy. Every dino tends to sound the same at a distance, because you only hear the growling. guttural noises, and bass. The only way to recognize it is to get closer or know the pattern of hard bass noise that corresponds to a dino. It's wrong and needs to be flipped around.

[tired creek]

Inactive timer Kick people off the server if they are inactive for x amount of time. At least for official servers. Let unofficial servers decide if they want it or not. Gives people a chance to get in, i see WAY too many inactive players when i finally do get in, especially as they try to discourage afk-ing

[lavish tundra]

Its still basically impossible for small stegos to climb out of water. not really sure if this is a bug or something that should be in feedback, but something needs to change, i can see other dinos smaller than the baby stegos getting out of the water just fine and the baby stegos just drown looking for a way out

[sacred nest]

Pteras can hit deinos midflight while deinos are unable to hit the pteras themselves,im being bullied by 2 pteras as a sub deino pls fix make ptera range smaller

[hazy zinc]

Mirror matchups have long been an issue in the isle, and they still are. Fighting a member of your own species at the same growth stage can be quite a pain, as it is just clicking until someone dies.

To combat this, i think an interesting test would be to give dinosaurs a partial immunity/ damage reduction against attacks from their own species, somewhere in the range of a 25% to a 50% reduction depending on the species. For instance, a utahraptor attacked by another utahraptor may take 40% less damage than any other dinosaur would, while a Carnotaurus would take only 30% less damage from another Carnotaurus.

This would serve to make in-species fights less lethal and more prolonged. In-species fights not ending in an outright death almost all of the time would make fights over territory or food much more interesting. At the same time It would also promote working with other members of your species due to players not wanting to risk prolonged fights.

[formal thistle]

i know i have already said deino needs a swimming grab besides lunge, and since grabing is its kit and people dont want it biteing and killing on land how about they make the bite attack a grab allso by holding lmb, so while swimming holding lmb grabing swimming dino and allows you to drown it and if your on land you can also hold lmb to grab. Example im on land where lunge is not as effective and a utah or carno runs at me i can lmb bite and hold lmb to grab then start to try and drag the dino in the water, everything like stam drain and everything is the same as if you lunged, this way the deino has more then one option to grab its target and more to the way its suppossed to be played

[lavish tundra]

Give us a way to fight back against the crocs that drag us underwater instead of "accept your fate get rekt omgelul"

[tardy crypt]

Fully grown deino can bite a hatchling utah without it dying. I know it didn't miss cause the lil guy yelped and ran off

[long isle]

Make Deino (Crocodile) Group limit to 5 and buff Hypsilodophon.

[lavish tundra]

Nerf dyros speed.

Not a lot of people know but dyro recently got a speed buff to 55 kmh, before it was slower then utah which is 52 kmh, as a dyro main this change has taken a lot of the fun out of playing dyro, I liked having to dodge and juke things but now it functions as a smaller galli, just point and run, no skill needed.

Instead of making the dodge borderline useless, make it so you dont come to a full stop after it and make it omni-directional, buffing dyros speed made its one special move even more worthless.

[sweet rivet]

buff the deino bite i got bit by a full grown one on the tail and i was a fresh spawn utah and all it did was take one third of my hp I think deino should of been able to one shot me instead of what happened

[pastel shell]

Deino Lunge is broken I've jumped right through multiple different dinos. Bite should do a bit more damage but nothing insane. Should be able to grab things that are swimming instead of just biting at them. Deino should be able to stay underwater for atleast double what it currently is. Also I haven't seen anyone else mention but FIX MY HEAD SHOOTING STRAIGHT UP OUT OF THE WATER haha.

[floral jewel]

Ever fought Deino VS Deino in the water because some Croc wanted to KOS you?
Ever fought on top of a school of fish and be stuck having a fish in your mouth, unable to bite and you can't figure it out until you got bitten 5 times?
Would it be possible to make the dinosaurs drop their catch if they try to bite again?

Also, making the Deino lunge attack, cling onto smaller part of larger target (without being able to drag), such as the tail, reducing the movement speed of the victim based on weight and make the victim unable to use tail swipe or kicks. Could be an opportunity to use that rolling/eating animation that's meant to be used on living target and making it into a "follow-up attack" to knock the animal down (if specifics criteria are met) at a larger stamina cost of course.

Lastly, we need a way to reduce how Powerful Stegos are, especially while camping river with their tails hanging and swinging in the water. Maybe reduce the damage it does or increase the stamina cost if its an underwater hit, the same way as how swinging a baseball bat in the water lose its momentum and kinetic energy.

[sweet bloom]

I was just logging off and had 6 seconds left until I was gone as a 100% deino, and a random stego came up and griefed me. My feedback: Deinos shouldn’t die nearly instantly to stegos because the griefing possibilities are endless for them.

[potent chasm]

When I’m eating a bush as a herbi, there’s a good 2-3 seconds between when you release E, and when you can move again. A decent player could easily get in an extra bite or two in that time.

[vapid oracle]

Not enough talk about how stupid silly stam drain is on ptera. I dont think you should fly forever but basically being forced to quickly catch a fish or risk not having enough stam to slightly gain height to maybe get to a semi safe place to eat? I think the drain doesnt need to be that punishing.

[trail heart]

A baby carno smaller than me as a utha shouldn't nearly one shot me. I feel as of now carno is a little overpowered. I've watched one fight 2 similarly sized dienos in the water and get out alive. This is a bit ridiculous. It's healthy and damage need to be lowered in my opinion.

[severe hornet]

So deinosuchus sees a herd crossing the river. For example some adult stegos with some baby's. What do they attack? I guess most of us go for the easy kill and take the baby's. These are smaller and slower and easy to pick off.

But what if you add like a double our maybe even triple stomach layer.
You eat small creatures you fill up your normal stomach (green like it is now) and this is max for smalls creatures.

When you eat a medium size creature, there will go a second layer with another color over the already filled stomage and you can fill this too. For example it turns blue, and this second layer is max what you get from medium size creatures.

When you eat a large creature you'll fill up your third layer of stomach. When the other 2 stomachs are full. If you eat only large creatures you can fill from 0 till the 3th layer of stomachs.
And for example this 3th stomach that go's over the other ones will turn red.

This will add another gameplay to the whole food chain part off the game.

So you see this herd crossing and you think. My first stomach is full. I would like to fill up my second one or even third one so I'm going for a adult Stego.
This will give the smalls a chance to survive and the adult creatures more fear off being eaten or attacked.

It's like in the real world of crocs. If I'm correct they can swallow so much food that they can go In a hypernation mode for 3 years.
I'm not saying you would eat that much and you don't have to eat for 3 years. It depends on how much energy is lost with doing stuff. Maybe the crock with 2 filled stomachs has also benefits of a slower draining stamina bar. And the croc with 3 stomachs has even more benefits of the stamina boost.

It's just an idea but this way adult crocs will go more for the adult creatures and leave the baby's in peace.

Now it doesn't matter what you eat. And baby's are the easiest to get so why bother the adults.

[high cove]

Hey, make spawn locations more random. South and south/west spots are camped by carnos and stegos who one shot you :C

[lavish tundra]

If we are able to carry food, let us jump with it. makes no sense i cant jump with a tiny ass fish in my mouth.

[lavish tundra]

when body dragging, add a function that lets you just tear off a piece vs carrying the whole body which slows you down

[last drift]

^
I want to add to this.
Press [or Tap] G to rip off a chunk, Hold [or Press for longer] G to carry (if you are big enough of course)

[hot dove]

I really like the Dryo buff. Now it is a viable animal, worth the grow time. It is much weaker then a Utah but you get speed and stamina for that. Utahs can still kill Dryos by ambushing as they one shot them with pounce. The M2 dodge from Dryo is still useless but who cares. The jump is now good as well.

With Utah, Dryo was one of my favourite animals in the old game, and now it is in Evrima too, tho I don't like the new model. Please keep it like this. Good job there!

[lavish tundra]

carnos rn are way to agile/mobile in my opinion they really need a turning nerf

[safe torrent]

Change locational damage slightly. I assume it works percent based. So if you bite something in it's tail tip you do X% of your bite damage. This makes it so if an adult Deino chomps it's mouth over an entire baby stego, it does no damage at all since it hits the tail first.

I suggest a minimum damage for any hit. let's say 10% of your damage total no matter what. This way, you still hurt something like that. Or even better, make it so if your jaw is closing around an entire animal, just hit int he middle. Middle of jaw takes priority, not base of the jaw. All something has to do right now is turn away from a Deino, and since it's mouth is so wide, it just always locks on to tail and does tail damage. I think both of those ways are fixes for that.

[burnt thistle]

There’s so many of you against a deino damage buff, yeah I get it, I love playing all Dinos but realistically the water should be feared! With 8 tons of croc and 500 bite force the deino does need and should have a damage buff!!

[lean bolt]

This has been said before, but it'd be really nice if Ptera could keep it's momentum when flying up. Currently, if you do something like dive real fast then curve up, you instantly slow down instead of retaining that momentum.

[mighty solstice]

I have to agree with Dan here. Deino currently feels a bit underwhelming. especially for a creature who is completely rendered useless out of water. I feel the 500 bite force just is not nearly enough. I don't think a Utah should be able to last 5 bites from a sub Deino, let alone a Adult Deino. And again, this would compensate for being rendered useless out of water.

[thick ether]

Deinosuchus fixes not involving the obvious bugs and hitboxes
-bite damage doesn't really need a buff, instead utah and carno should receive a minor health nerf once more of their and deino's preferred prey is added
-default bite should be able to deal fracture to the limbs and tails of targets, obviously scaling with target size from extrmely minor to full on breakage
-swimming terrestrial animals should have their weight values (not hp) cut while swimming, to either 2/3 or 1/2 of their original weight, allowing Deino to drag them
-deino grab should be usable while swimming because it's dumb that he is kinda useless in deep water
-deino needs a tail slap, this should deal low damage but decent fracture in its weight class, since tail whips from crocs and big lizards can break bones

Deino doesn't need a bite damage increase, at least right now, he needs to be able to wrangle prey in the water better than he currently does and have some defense against ass biters, and that's it

[modern quail]

So I know there is supposed to be a penalty when killing your own species in the future. But with there being so much Carnotaurus and Dienosuchus cannibalism, I feel like we need it sooner. I have been killed from a Dienosuchus as a Dienosuchus multiple times, usually as adults. So please give us some sort of penalty for cannibalism sooner. EDIT: I wonder if the people disliking are cannibals lmao

[frigid crypt]

oh sheesh please don't alter the health of utah or carno just to make them easily killed by deino (whilst I agree full adult deinos should be able to kill utahs with a shot and at most 2 with a body but don't make life harder for them against tenos & stegos, maybe carno a little but at least not by much. Theres not much of a problem with them anyway other than carno needs to be a little less agile.

[lavish tundra]

Ptera needs to be buffed or bulked up a bit, currently a ptera can't even kill a fresh spawn stego (less than 3% growth).

[real edge]

So, ptera's peck damage is 50. This is lower than a dryo's which is 75. This is fine for balance reasons, because since ptera is untouchable, this tiny 50 damage it does can become devastating to anything. On the other hand, ptera cannot even snatch tiny babies, and even fighting each other is more of a crash contest than actually dealing damage with pecks. I'd suggest amping up this damage, BUT making it cost stamina. I don't know if it's a bug on my own or if it has been overlooked, but currently ptera's peck costs 0 stamina. If it dealt more damage but costed stamina, that would be both a gain for hungry pteras that want to try their luck against babies, and a relief for people who get harrassed by pteras, since they couldn't do it infinitely anymore. Taking more damage but for a finite time is much better than getting low damage infinitely, isn't it ?

[pure needle]

Why are Stegos allowed to Camp Rivers without getting punished? (like you cant fight back because that would mean certain death)

[green oasis]

deino should have 1k bite force (he should have something like 1,5k because he had stronger jaws than t rex but it will be op)

[warm finch]

Deinosuchus' bite force is a joke. Carnotaurus can tank several body shots before going down. Why did you give your crocodile MBD in it's jaws? I get that it can drown a fully grown carno, which is fine, but then you also have Stego. A fully grown Stego should be an ample counter to a fully grown croc. The issue is, Stego is too much of a counter. It can't be taken down by deino at all once fully matured. If it can't drown the Stego it should at least have enough bite force to make the Stego scared. Less overall bleed infliction but more raw compared to stegos pretty high raw damage and really good bleed. I've seen Stegosaurus take out multiple fully grown 8 tonne crocodiles singlehandedly and really didn't need to worry about healing much. Deinos bite hitbox is a little strange as well. Not many people seem to use the ALT+LMB attack to catch butt riders off guard, and it's effective as hell if timed right, but I've missed bites across the board with any attack that look like they've landed. Up the bite force to make it actually compete with Stego in what would be considered a skilled fight, so Stego can't just put its ass in the water and flail around, and update the consistency of it's attacking hitboxes so that it's fluent with the animations a bit more. The bites seem to only register at the tip of the mouth and not much further back. In it's current state, for balance reasons, it should be acting as the big carnivore to Stego being the resident lard herbivore.

[tardy crypt]

Deino says PEEKABOO 😅

On another note, Idk if anyone has mentioned but It might be cool if Deino calls-- or maybe a different type of call worked underwater. Similar to the Q sound when you are sensing motion since Gators IRL do make a lot of rumble sounds naturally when they are submerged. Might be a cool effect to add in

[normal kestrel]

Can you put More AI food for Land Dinos....PLEASE... unless other player die there is no dam Food......

[sonic kettle]

I noticed deinosuchus weight scaling is really weird, from 0-50% growth you become 2000kg, then from 50- 100% you go from 2000kg-8000kg maybe up the weight at 50% because only weighing 2000kg after 2.5 hours of growing means your a literal hamburger. It also means in order to grab an adult utah it requires 2.5 hours of growing. Thats alot of time just to be able to snag a utah.

[stoic iron]

I have killed so many dryos in mid-dodge. It feels a little cheap. The dryo also stops completely to leap aside, and that has given me ample time to readjust my position and kill them anyways on many occasions.
I feel like dryo should be immune to damage during its dodge.
Or instead, change it so that dryo does not loose momentum when it dodges.

[lavish tundra]

Gators are able to jump out of the water in real life, why cant we be able to do that to birds or other dinos that are jumping across the river? instead of go straight, turn move turn etc

[split rampart]

Little Dryo buff suggestion, the dodge needs a buff imo

After playing Dryo for a few hours straight and getting into multiple chases, I've found the dodge is honestly just OKAY. Turning regularly is just about as good as dodging, I was able to screw up a Carno's charge a few times with the dodge but turning normally worked just about as good, and without that awkward pause. I think it's set up to try and make Dryo look like it's turning one way, and then run the opposite way, as a fakeout. But in practice, it's just too quick and too subtle for the predator to properly register and takes up precious time that you would need in that moment.

IMO the dodge needs to just be an immediate jump in the direction you choose. The fakeout jus needs removed, it makes the dodge feel too clunky, looks bad, and takes up just a bit of time that you need. Tune up the controls to make it easier to control as well, maybe a short and subtle speed boost during the dash animation and I think that could make the dodge an actually usable tool for Dryo

[slim spindle]

Idk who thought having a cow with a glorified pine cone as a tail, aka stego, be the apex dinosaur in this build would be a good idea. But jokes aside, it really does need to be either majorly nerfed or everything else's damage/health majorly boosted. I could see it doing more damage to deinos if they're hit in the eyes (head) but do little damage if it hits it anywhere else on its body. I mean look at that tiny itty bitty tail. And yet it 3-4 shots adult deinos no matter where they're hit.

At least make it that you can aim your lunge kind of like the hypsi does with its spit attack. It should also have a high percentage to actually hit its target compared to now. And I think that if you aim it at the head you should (at least with stego. I mean look at that skinny neck) have a near 100% guarantee to be able to drag it underwater and drown it.

But yeah I've criticized it enough. See what I absolutely love is just the feeling of experiencing the isle for the first time all over again with this update. The underwater mechanics, the flying and just all the new content so far is amazing! It's been such a pleasure diving back into this game after being burnt out with playing the same dinos over and over again. I really dig where this is going!

[opal heart]

It should be easier to travel as a group without losing your friends. You can see name tags, but only on your screen so it's easy to lose sight on someone. Pointers on the edge of your screen would solve this. The calls also need more functionality in this regard. If real dinosaurs were smart enough to live in groups and to know each other, they would probably also know how everyone in their group sounds. That would at least be very handy in the isle, if you ask me. It can be simulated by making the tag of the caller blink. If someones tag disappeared due to distance, it should reappear during the 1 call as long as you can hear it. A distance estimation should also be given. The precision of it should be 10 (20, 30 etc), 100-200 and >200 meters. Other calls should also give a distance estimation, but more precise and with a shorter range

[next lagoon]

I think there might be something wrong with carnos at the moment; presently a single adult carno can kill multiple 60%+ growth deinos in their own element. Match for match, the Deino should win especially in the water, but when the carnotaur can kill them both on land and in the water, and multiple of them, something is up.
I just want to iterate; this is NOT a buff Deino thing. Deino is a monster of its own kind and arguably doesn't need it, but when a carno can chase one down in the water and kill it, I think something needs looking at either way.

[clever solar]

If increasing Deino's biteforce is off the table, I think the Devs should consider decreasing the debuff for Deino bites that hit other animals on the legs. The legs are usually the only place that Deino can reach, if it's caught in shallow water or has to compete for a corpse on land. Not to mention, biting the legs from under a swimming animal is the only viable strategy against swimming creatures.

In the case where the Devs believe buffing the biteforce unbalances the animal, then maybe they can increase the viability of the Deino by increasing the damage it can do to the areas it can reach.

[acoustic aurora]

Deino is fine at the moment it doesn't need buffs now, only a few hitbox fixes and it is more then viable right now. Yes its matchup against stego is horrible but that is only because there are still features to come like fractures and a true night where deinos watersense ability will realy shine. What I woupd like however is that deino gets decent fracture damage where for example if a deino hits a stegos tail 3-4 times the stegos tail is broken and it cant use its swipe again but can still run away or when it would cross the stego crosses a river you could hit his leg a couple of times fracturing it where you could then try to fracture the tail. This kind of gameplay would make it so stegos need to be carefull in and around water but there is still more then enough counterplay as the deino couldn't just facetank the stego and needs to be smart on where to hit it making the matchup perfectly balanced.

[split rampart]

Honestly all of these issues with Deino V Stego and even juvie Deino v Carno now are occurring in shallow or narrow rivers where the Deino is in reach of threats.

Maybe a solution could just be some more wider deeper bodies of water? More opportunity to just avoid threats? Because the main issue I'm seeing are players are getting trapped in shallow or narrow bodies of water that they just can not escape from. Maybe they get cornered at a waterfall or are just between two shallow points or the water is narrow enough for a threat to reach into. The environment has a huge impact on a creature's balancing, so maybe the rivers need buffed, not Deino

[cloud jasper]

Rivers are fine, Buff Ptera bite force

[mortal musk]

New map is epic so far, but
it seems difficult to explore the map as a carnivore when hunger and thirst decline at the rate they currently do.

Perhaps boost the amount of AI so that there is an incentive to leave the hot spots (as this is the most practical way to ensure you are well fed) and decrease the rate at which a character dehydrates to allow for more exploration before needing to drink.

[weary frost]

The way some stegos in evrima are so aggressive and territorial against carnivores is an issue that I’ve seen brought up a lot. Some people have suggested nerfing stego, but stego is supposed to be a very powerful creature that can easily defend itself, so how can we let it keep that strength for defense, but limit how aggressive it can be?

To prevent stego from going on huge killing sprees, each time they kill a creature, their damage is temporarily nerfed, and this gets worse the more Dinos you kill. Herbivores could also hate being around dead bodies, causing them to move somewhere else to avoid debuffs. This would stop stegos from guarding dead bodies and specific places on the map.

Overall, these are some of my ideas on how to stop stegos from using their strength aggressively, while still keeping them strong enough to protect themselves when they need to.

[median ravine]

3 stegos shamelessly camping 2 adult deinos in the long shallow river that runs East to West. seems fair. both died

[modern quail]

Mix-Packing, a common topic in The Isle, most people like myself try to find a way to get rid of Mix-Packing. When the Devs removed global and group chat, there is much less now... Until people started using Discord to chat with each other, it is getting worse and worse, I have seen some people Mix-Packing with Utahs, Pteras, and Dienos. For example we were a group of Utahs when we saw these THINGS people in the east swamp Mix-Packing, we were eating close to them and then the Pteras and Mix-Packing-Utahs charged at us started biting us, we lost two of our members, then we realized that the Dienos weren't attacking them, and then they started body guarding the food... So I would like to see how the Devs would combat Mix-Packing, I would want to hear your thoughts and opinions on how we could possible salve this and maybe make suggestions to combat this. Please ping me #balance-feedback-discussion about your ideas!

[torpid sapphire]

Deinos should have a bite and drag feature in open water. With the current bite force the deino has (less than a human mind you) it should be able to bite and pull prey under the water mid river. If they aren't going to buff the bite it sure as heck could pull an adult carno under in a river crossing.

[wild niche]

I was stego and fought with 3 adult Deinos. In the end I still had 20% health and all Deinos were dead. In addition, there can be 5 Stegos in a herd, with the Deinos only 2. Was that the plan? From my point of view, Deinos have no chance against Stegos. What can Deinos do against Stegos?

[slim spindle]

Was a fully grown carno and got nearly killed by two baby stegos that barely reached my ankles. Why are stegos so grossly op?

[worn rune]

I threw the concept together after Tyndrum #TeamFoszor (I don’t want to ping them since that may be rude of me) mentioned the idea.

Anything that’s big enough to not be 1 shot by a deino that’s swimming in deep water should be at risk to be slowed or pulled down by a deino. Deino would however be forced to let go once said dinosaurs feet touch the ground. That way not everything that’s being pulled down is immediately drowned, and still has a chance to get away. But if their stamina is already low from say running away from being hunted and they risk crossing, it may either save them or end them.

That would make for interesting gameplay since it would make the player that’s crossing the river make a calculated risk if they’re really needing to cross. It’ll also make players really learn the map as well so they can decide if they should head for perhaps more shallow waters or take a longer route to avoid being a potential meal for deinos. I think that would encourage a little bit more traffic away from rivers to give land carnivores a better shot at hunting as well.

Maybe that would provide a more balanced carnivore, both land and semi-aquatic, hunting experience.

Thus ultimately, I don’t think deino needs higher damage, but maybe a better hit box for precision and a “grab” attack as many have said.

I’d also like to mention that I feel not all mid tier dinosaurs should be a one shot grab and pull if they have a decent amount of stamina and health as well. Locational damage would also still be a big part of this mechanic. So perhaps, hypothetically, if a Utah Raptor was drinking water and the deino player lunges to grab their “head/face” then that Utah may very well be lunch. But if it’s a bodyshot, they may not be yanked into the depths and could have one more chance to escape. That would keep the balance and go from there based on other factors such as weight and so on per dinosaur.

Thank you for reading! 🐊

[worldly solar]

Change deinos around for balance.

Size incresed do 13m
Weight to 13 tons

Dmg:1000

-speed on land greatly decreased
-stamina on land decreased drastically
-Growth time increased to adult 8+ hours
-keep the stats overall low untill it hits adult stage

General idea is to make Deino an apex of the waters and make even the bigger dinos (except a few apex herbs and carnis) think twice about laying right by water or swim around without a care.

And also to make it harder to get to adult and therefore decrease the adult population as they will be harder to get to.

I know most people will disagree just putting my thoughts out there.

Also keep in mind with rex trike spino and apexes ingame with thier weight all over half of 13tons none of the apaxes can be grabbed.

And also to people who think they will be op...if you wanna drink go to the shallow area there is a loong stretch of super shallow water where you can drink with no fear.

Deinosuchus is limited to areas with lots of water, if a utah or carno pack finds one out on land even one with this increased size they can kill it.

(Reposted cus rewritten)

[novel matrix]

With the current roster of playables, a conditional lunge would balance out our two ‘apexes’ of the current, playable roster. It gives Deino a chance to counter hostile Stegos in deep water while also still allowing Stegos to defend their herd at the waters edge as long as they are not in too deep.
Let me know what you think! Feel free to ping me in the discussion channel.

[low forum]

So...my adult Stego just died to 2 utahs and there was NOTHING I could do against them. From one moment to the next they pounced me (no animation they were just latched to me from meters away ) and I wasnt able to shake them off. When they jumped off from me( and yes they were both using their full stamina bar), I had a delay in my tail attack so I was not able to hit them.
My suggestion, or better, plea to the devs is get rid of the delays in attacks or the delay the dinosaur switches from standing to an attack animation. Its not that I don't mind donating my body to other players, but there was no pounce animation or whatsever, they were on my back while less then one second ago they were trotting next to me. There was no high screech noise they normally make while doing the pounce, so it almost felt to me like the game already made up its mind on who the winner was before it even started, like it was rigged.
I would love to see more fluid combat like we used to have in Legacy, minus the tailriding that is, but now it just feels so robotic and unrealistic. Sorry, maybe it was just the lag, I mean, I haven't been able to play on any EU servers only the NA, Brazil and Australia servers. But it was weird anyway and I wanted it off my chest because they had it SO easy in taking me down!

[lusty vine]

Nerf carno acceleration time increase so it takes longer to get to full speed

[slim spindle]

Id actually love it if herbies could get debuffs when standing on or right next to dead bodies for a certain period of time. Would definitely help with the body guarding.

[hazy zinc]

Deinosuchus needs to instantly drop whatever dinosaur it's carrying if it gets bit. A deinosuchus managed to grab a friend of mine on land, and I bit it several times from behind as it ran back to the water. Yet despite the amount of hits it took (i was a 100% growth carno) it was still able to make it back to the water, which was about 300 feet away from where my friend was initially grabbed.

[wide stone]

I think deinosuchus must have more demage or something, cuz 8 tones couldn`t one shot carno, thats redilisious. Plus crocs has to small hit box, because of that small uta can come inside the deinosuchus. Carno 1 on 1 with deinosuchus nose to nose almost killed deinosuchus. Need balance badly with this. I bite tenanto with full adult crocs and it managed to get away, but the size it 8 tons, one bite should destroy. Crocodiles in real life usually bite legs, make deino break legs.

[rough meteor]

Stego food sould decay slighty faster when growing. I have to drink three to four times before ever really needing to eat once.

[modern quail]

To add on, the body should be at least 5ft away from the herbi, and the herbi should stand there for at least 20mins before it gets debuffs. Also, one debuff could be a SLIGHT damage nerf when standing next to a corpse. EDIT: the debuff lasts for at least 2.5mins when away from a body

[true gate]

The problem is not 2 or 3 Utahs killing a Stego, that's how it is supposed to be. Multiple organized predators should be able to bring a big target down. The problem is the opposite. And I play as both Stego and Utah, I'm not biased to one side.
To kill a Utah as a Stego, sadly all you have to do is nothing but stop and spam RMB in the direction of the pounced Utah. Once the Utah hops off (and it's mandatory he will, because of stam) the Stego will impale it every single time he lands from the hop off, independently of when the Utah chooses to hop off.
**Stegos should not be able to one shot impale Utahs that are landing after a deliberated and well timed pounce off **

[final sand]

hopefully they increase deinos damage in the future. it looks silly for carnos or utahs to survive deinos bite but it might be best best balance-wise until they start adding larger dinos

[inland sequoia]

please Do Not consider body or gore debuffs around herbies. because the much faster and maneuverable carnis could just hold bodies in there mouths around the much slower herbies which would cause alot of unnecessary problems. the mechanic in general sounds way to easy to abuse like purposely dying on someones nesting grounds trolling in order to make someone move from an area. its borderline a built in body down rule and will be used that way by carnis not able to complete the job 😐

[trim solar]

What if when a dino gets a drink, if a deino is close enough it could get a tool tip, like ptera does when fishing, to grab and death roll causing extra dmg and bleed. It would still be just as vulnerable on land but have that extra dmg it needs in the water.

[hollow crane]

Deno Bleed issue:
A utar in theory does not have the jaw strength or teeth to bite through the scoots and dermal plates on a deno so there should be no bleed from them when attacking an mid to adult deno. I mean look at lions jaguars and such when they attack crocs they try and flip them to get at the throat. theres next to no blood. Cocs have been know to have limbs bitten off an survive just fine so having the croc take so much bleed to technically nibbles needs tweaking

[green oasis]

utah pounce from 75% grow

[median ravine]

I call bullshit. The deino does t have enough stam to carry something in its jaws for more than 20 30 seconds. The deino did not carry your friend 300 feet. I have over 60 hours on deino. I have tried to carry players to water from land many times and the deino drops them when stam wears out.

[hollow ridge]

Balance stegos and deinos a bit so that its actually plausible for good deinos to succesfully kill a stego.

The stego should ofc have a significant advantage depending on how close it is to water, but perhaps add some combat mechanic that allows for a deino to stun a stego for a tiny bit if it lunges at its head. This could make for a very interresting fighting strategy and could allow for 2 deinos to kill a stego if they use it very strategicly.

Right now stegos and deinos never really fight and allowing for 2 good deinos to at least have a chance of killing one adult stego would spice up gameplay for both adult stegos and deinos.

[opal heart]

We have servers with 130 people and 8 species to choose from. That means 16,25 players per species on average. It's not that much, especcially on a big map. Well, there are currently much more deinos and pteras, but how are you ever gonna find other dryo players? At least 9 more species are awaiting, so it gets even worse. More and more species will just go extinct as they get replaced by stronger and 'cooler' (newer, more exciting) species. It might be the best to get dedicated servers for different groups of species. Maybe a smaller map dedicated to smaller species like dryo, hypsi, velo and some others but, ideally, not more than 6 different species should be in one server. The isle is on its best when you can play and survive in a team, compete with other teams and fight with your supposed prey or predator, which is another player. Dedicated servers would make this well possible for all species.

Let's be honest: would trikes and rexes make the game better for the rest of the species? Probably not. For the most part, they would take a lot of living space and server slots. Fights between them will result in happy utahs, just like in legacy. It's nice to see the size of big creatures compared to yours, but for things like that, it would be better to throw everything together in sandbox servers (with global chat please). Humans would also make more sense there than in survival. Division wouldn't make things boring. Instead, the game would have much more variation when you can choose between different maps with different ecosystems. The smaller maps can even have details on a smaller scale

[nova trail]

Plz remove 1 click Shift key to run or give an option to customize the button for that. Otherwise utahs usually lounch itself into suicide run off of the rocks...

[safe torrent]

Both parties get stunned for the same amount of time right now. Maybe just make it so the damage that lunge does (I think it does some damage regardless of grab) just has a high headshot multiplier. Only for the water lunge though, land lunge sucks but could still be abusable. By high headshot multiplier I mean, make it do a bit more damage than the bite. Like a 700 N bite to the head, since it can only connect once per fight unless something really wonky goes on. Also once per fight means nothing since it's not even a fight if the stego just walks away. It would act as a great deterrent I think. Fix hitbox and increase headshot multiplier for water lunge, that should even the playing field in Deino's own turf.

[trail jewel]

Just need to fix the hit-box and the collision, No need for added damage.

[final sand]

could just be me but i think utahs i bit too prone to fall damage cause the cliff i fell off wasnt that big and i lost 3/4 of my health

[lunar osprey]

As of right now hypsi spit is a high-risk low reward ability which I do not think is very fair. It needs some sort of buff.

Downsides of using the spit: Takes hunger, stops movement if you shoot behind you, needs aim, and has extremely short range.
Upsides: blinds victim temporarily (can be quickly undone by pressing E)
It does not make much sense to me on why this move has so many downsides for what it does and what hypsi is.
First of all, the move has such a low range that even if you do land the spit you are most likely already being eaten. I believe the range should be increased by quite a lot so you can use the move to escape being eaten giving it another choice besides just running away. Second, you are never going to land this move on something utahraptor sized or smaller its head is just far too small and is very fast. The ability needs some form of aim assist for it to be good against creatures that are fast and small. It is not possible for a human to focus on aiming a thin line dodging attacks and not running into walls while also finding the right moment to release the ability. Adding aim assist would at least make this a little easier while also taking skill.

I know hypsi is kind of considered the “troll dino” right now but I don’t think its fair to just neglect the balance and make its most fun ability not useful as I do genuinely think hypsi is fun to survive as.

[timid pelican]

allow utahs to pounce from 50% growth, but have them grow into long term pounces like ptera does with flight, also reintroduce no pounce zones on the tail and plates of stego, if a utah pounces on the plates or tail it should get cc'ed (if it would grapple onto the stego not pin it, obviously)

[steady gull]

increase deino damg rn its damg is pethetic it cant even 1 shot utah a stego should not be doing more then a deino those things are suposed to have insane bite force

[cyan ibex]

make ptera to slowly gain back at least a tiny bit of stamina while gliding in the air, that way if the ptera needs to land but there are dinos nearby, it can at least run for a bit

[lavish tundra]

give pseudo apexes like stego a chance against apexes like rex, giga and spino for example, a rex shouldn’t be able to face tank a stego from behind just because the grow takes longer. (when the apexes release)

not only is it unrealistic, but it’s just going to throw pseudos like stego off in general. People are going to think “why should I play stego if I can just face tank everything as a rex or giga?”

stego at least needs a chance when fighting a larger player that is playing poorly. if they get hit by the spikes, they should be punished.

what I’m saying is that people shouldn’t be able to mindlessly bite someone and instantly win. just make people use their brains more and don’t just make the apex trio overpowered.

[clever solar]

Piggybacking off this, what happened to the mechanic where you had to pounce on the sides of tenos for it to work? Now you can pounce anywhere (like on the face) and just be teleported to the correct spot?

Pounce should remain high-risk, high reward. When a Utah fails to latch onto a preferred spot, it should be punished by falling off onto the ground in the worst case scenario. And in the best case scenario a poorly aimed pounce should result in significant stamina loss.

Bring back difficult pounces.

[fierce parcel]

Possibly lower teno growth time a smidge? Really easy to lose them but they take a while to grow. Took two hours to grow a teno, went to a river, then a deino bit its tail and dragged it under. All that growth gone in 20 seconds.

[honest dove]

stego should be able to blind other dinosaurs if the stego gets the eyes

[pallid notch]

so um a freshspawn stego killed my full grown carno, i bit it at least 15 times

[plucky sequoia]

utah's being able to use pounce as soon as they become adults, that is 75%, I think it is very difficult to grow the utharaptor so this little "buff" would be interesting

[still garden]

I realize this has already been suggested but seriously, consider making it so that Utah can pounce at a younger age. A sub adult Utah without the ability to pounce doesn’t make sense. Similarly to the fishing system, make the likely hood of injury more apparent by making bucking more effective on the younger the Utah.

[dry mesa]

I think multiple deinos should be able to drag big dinos. I will give example from current roaster. For example stego drinks water then one deino lunges through stego and grabs it. At this point deino will hold onto stego and stego will slowly pull deino to land with itself(deino's stam will decrease faster while holding onto it. addition: also stego can tail hit to deino's body but with smaller amount of damage since it can't use its tail fully functional due to being grabbed). If second deino comes in the right time and lunges to stego then both deinos will hold rmb while first deino will control the direction and movement and drag stego into water. With this ability deino will still hunt with its lunge ability but not with biting fight. Also stegos will fear camping next to river and they will only come around to drink water. Bigger dinos will require more deinos(shant will require 4 deinos for example).

[pastel pumice]

Nerf the stegos damage to bigger targets, and make deino able to bring the stego into the water, it makes no sense how a stego can 4 shot a deino and deino just sits there spamming m1 and dealing less than half the stegos HP, maybe for balance, the deino will drag the stego in slower and will use more stam, but seriously these bloodthirsty stegos who mix pack with utahs and carnos just makes the deino seem very underpowered and insignificant and in turn makes it un-enjoyable to play. Of course there should be a size limit to what a deino can grab and drag into the water but i think that the stego should be able to be dragged under water, so people cant just play it and kill every single croc in existence. another thing is that why is the stego able to 1 shot utahs and deinos are not it takes alot more skill to kill a utah on land with deino than a bloody stego. (i can guarrentee all the bloodthirsty stego mains will dislike this comment lol)

[slate mesa]

Fall damage into water really needs to be altered.

[still goblet]

carnos stamina is recently nerfed, but in my opinion it is better for carno to have high stamina and slow stam regen.
currently in evrima carno stamina runs out in under 50 seconds and you can gain it all back sitting down in 20 seconds, which doesn't really suit carno
it would make sense to give carno better stamina, but significantly lowers its stamina regen

[opal heart]

I think that every creature should have its own walking abilities on slopes, with different speed impacts and max climbing angles. Smaller species should be much better climbers than apexes

[timber wedge]

Carno accelerates faster than utah.

The whole point of carno is for it to be a very high speed rammer that goes very fast in straight lines, making it accelerate faster than something like a utah which is literally the definition of agile is stupid in my opinion.

[fathom fern]

Bump Deinos bite force to at least 800, preferably 1000. An 8 ton creature can't kill a stego by itself? How? One bite to the head from a giant alligator would be, and should be, the end of just about any creature. Deinos are only a threat in and around water, which is enough of a handicap for them. Also with as low to the ground as they are, and the fact that even our modern day crocodiles are dang near bulletproof, should mean stegos have a huge disadvantage when attacking them. They'd have to do some fancy tail tricks to get to the soft underside or throat of a deino to do any real harm, otherwise, the thagomizer would likely skim across the top of their backs or heads and just piss the deinosuchus off. Just thoughts.

[cunning cedar]

Carno's stamina drains a bit too fast now.

[edgy harbor]

For the Teno the tail smack seems too fast cause once they knocked me down I couldn't get back up because the kept on spamming it so maybe have a small timer for it. Just a suggestion

[thick perch]

Give Tenonto's bite bleed. Ovbiously nothing serious compared to a carnivore, and it would more or less be an inconvenience at most, but still, imagine that beak slicing into you, there would be a fair amount of blood.

[cosmic eagle]

1.Give the Carnotaurus way worse turning radius. Rn it can turn very well and that doesn't really push you to using the charge too much.

2.(not sure if it's already confirmed) But give Utahraptor 's pounce a big nerf. It doesn't require teamwork nor skill to hunt anything big with spamming this overpowered ability.

Not sure if these are either confirmed to happen or already happened in the QA patches, feel free to tell me.:white_check_mark: :x: :timer:

[stuck field]

Hypsi reallllllllyyyyyy needs to be easier to aim with. I was harassing one as a ptera and landed next to it. It missed me from point blank range. Spitting is supposed to be its niche that helps it live and to give people a reason not to go near it.

[misty spade]

This is in balance discussion because, Ptera’s need an easier softer landing so they dont suffer so much from brain damage. Just balances their life and stupidity.

[fringe wyvern]

create a feature wherein the deino can get into a tug-of-war with creatures over the current weight limit. exact implementation may vary, but it would generally be that the deino would sacrifice stamina (more stamina used the heavier the creature) to be able to pull a large creature into the water. ideally, the stamina depletion would be quite severe, making it so that the deino cant pull the larger creature very far into the water before it is forced to drop it. another possibility is that the victimized creature would need to use some stamina to end the deino's grapple, this would punish players for running up to water with low stamina, as they may be incapable of struggling out

this would serve to banish the problem of stegosauruses being totally and utterly confident around river banks, as the stegosaurus would be open to being tugged into the water. if a creature is tugged into the water, it's open to being bitten with no recourse, meaning that being constantly tugged would result in death, but it would not constitute an instant death/one-shot. if the stego (or whatever creature) does not want to die while drinking, just run away after you get tugged the first time.

[gloomy moon]

Rebalance the stego, in the current roster it is very overtuned.

Examples:
Stego can 1 shot utah, a full grown deino can't, a fresh spawn stego can kill a adult utah, a fresh spawn stego requires 2 f***ing bites from a full deino and probably more from other dinos, a half grown stego can easily kill a full deino and full carno.

Basically it has too much health and damage.

[round locust]

Can you add more something like little lakes or something, there's nothing to do in this places without water, no points of interest, so people rarely appear in here. I think all the map should have good places to roam around, not only river sides and center, where all people now

[nova trail]

Make a proper colision for deinos.

[indigo ice]

Stegosaurus needs a sweep attack, it has no crowd control for some reason. Ofc it would be half as strong as the stab cause balance, but it still doesn't make sense that you can't swing your tail.

[mighty quiver]

Small dinos can literally sit inside a FG Deino without being able to be bit. Model for the Deino seems to be a small box around its shoulders only

[sly umbra]

Whilst i dont think deino needs a massive buff to 1000 damage, i do think 750 would be nice, and simultaneously nerfing utah health to 750. i mean if you look at the size of the jaws, it should one shot a utah easily, this would also remove the stupid high utah health pool and just tanking hit after hit from a carno. Currently utah weighs 500kg and has 1000 HP. im pretty sure your weight is relevent to you health in most cases, but i also beleive 500 hp is far too low, 750 would keep it fragile, encouraging the pack hunting as you alone can not tank loads of hits anymore, but it wouldnt just make utah a chew toy for literally everything, carnos would still take 3 hits to kill rather than 4, deino and stego could one shot which makes sense aswell. With deino bite buff, this might make stegos less likely to camp, because instead of being able to tank 12 hits from a full adult deino, it can only tank 8 hits, which is a massive difference and it would make deino stand more of a chance since i think the stego swing does around 1000 damage, meaning they would both take 8 hits to kill. in other words, a fair battle for the 2 largest animals on the island currently, and this should counter the stego water camping shenanigans

[final sand]

i know i already said it but i feel like saying it again. tone down on utahs fall damage. it takes damage from ledges that it shouldnt be bothered by. i just lost one because of this and its even more annoying with random shallow ravines in jungles that a utah might lose half of its health to.

[modern quail]

Locational Damage is still a little broken. For example I was a baba Carno, and out of nowhere a Utah tries to hunt . when I was running, Utah bit me when I was like 15ft away from it and died... aaaaand there u have it folks there is no life inside of me lmao

[dense sphinx]

@sly umbra Personally speaking, in real life, the Deino had a greater biteforce than that of the Rex. And on Legacy, the Rex’s bite is 1,200. And they can do bone break too (Or a 70% chance of doing so!).
So, I believe that the Deino needs to have a bite at least equal to that of the legacy Rex or even greater.
After all, this “game” is supposed to be the most realistic “dino game” currently available and the Deino was able to take on far larger prey when it lived!

[sly umbra]

Now heres the problem. With that. Balance. Going up against a legacy rex was such a stupid matchup. It should not be that way in evrima

[woeful sorrel]

Hypsi spit should be easier to aim / a small cone in the direction, it’s already a niche and you only get 4.. it’s meant to be a defence thing, which when running from things is nearly impossible to hit

[low forum]

Sjesus fresh spawn/juvi stego's need a nerf, tried to spammbite one in the head; ambushed it while it was standing on the shore, like 6 times and it killed my almost 70% adult carno! HOW is that even possible?? 👀 just before that I found one that was larger afk in a bush and he died with 3 bites to the head! That can't be real!?

[versed bolt]

Get rid of the max HP debuff that happens after losing a lot of HP. Someone who manages to survive after being hit, by either winning a fight or running away, should not be punished for it.

[opal heart]

I think that deinos should be stronger, less vulnerable and have air to stay submerged for 15 minutes or so, but they shouldn't have such huge underwater vision advantages. The underwater sight should be the same for all species and the third person camera should be locked on the side of the water surface where your eyes are. Deinos should have a seeking ability: swimming close to the surface with their eyes half submerged, to get a first person view half above and half underwater. In contrary, all species should be able to put their head underwater and get a first person view. Both abilities can be performed by turning the camera against the water surface and pushing the use button

Only when you swim at the surface you can turn the camera through it, but looking underwater puts your head there. You drain oxygen and you go a little slower. I think that most species should be able to descend and swim deeper with a really low speed and disabled attack. It can save your life when you are close to dying from hunger and know that a body is at the bottom. To find it, scent particles should come out of the water from random places around the body. To know exactly where it is, you have to take a look

I think that non-aquatics should have enough stamina to swim quite far, to stay underwater for 30 seconds and regen air in 10 seconds or so, all depending on your exact species. Their limits should be low speed, difficult turns and vulnerability, but they shouldn't drown by themselves so easily. Fast drowning doesn't add much to the game, it's just limiting and frustrating

Pteranodon should be the best non-aquatic swimmer. His underwater speed should be the same as with his mouth in the air, he should have air for a minute and the higher buoyancy of salt water should be enough to fly out of it. The biggest, fastest sea fishes should be visible from above the surface so he can dive with enough speed to get them. He can hold on smaller fishes, but this costs stamina

[undone reef]

A keybind you can choose or a pre-chosen keybind to immediately leave a group in case they turn on you would be grand. / Or a penalty to attacking group members.

[reef ginkgo]

Baby stegos hurt way too much for their size ;-;

[sinful parcel]

What if sleeping could be used for something other than safe logging? What I had in mind is that after a few days in game, your max stamina and/or stamina regen will go down a decent amount. To fix this cap, you could just sleep in a heavy forest for 10 minutes in game to gain that stamina and/or stamina regen back, this makes sitting in a bush a bit more immersive and worth it. Not to mention it also adds on to how life-like the game could feel.

[round locust]

Should human species have Map ingame? I think it will be good and balanced 👀

[leaden burrow]

I have a few suggestions about Deinos, instead of buffing bite force, which seems to be the bigger complaint rn, but I have a few different ones:

1. Deino should have more oxygen whilst submerged than it currently has. Real life crocs can sit in water for up to 1 hour, so translated to game time, it probably needs a 2-4 minute buff of being able to stay submerged to make more stealthy plays.

2. The hitbox absolutely needs fixing, because right now agile assriders can make life very hell for crocs without being able to do much or at most you land one bite and then you lose your advantage. I'm not saying make it a land fighter, but when a carno or utah comes up too close it should be more punishing. Perhaps add a tail whip?

3. The hunger drain on Deino's goes down a little too quickly for how well it's real life counterpart is able to sustain itself. Whilst I like action, one shouldn't have to hunt every 10 or so minutes just to have a full stomach.

4. Deeper rivers or perhaps more variety of watering areas. Also related to this, I feel like whenever I'm laying in position my head just spasms upwards even though I may be looking downwards or to the side slightly, giving myself away very easily and whenever I am trying to hunt this becomes very frustrating.

[quiet yarrow]

There should be more balance between the populations of Dinosaurs. Right now obviously people want to try them out but what we end up with is an overpopulation of carnivores and not enough herbivores. This results in repetitive gameplay and too much cannibalization.

One solution might be to limit the choices a player can select when respawning. The challenge then is to come up with the appropriate ratios between dinos. For a 130 player server maybe ratios like these might work:

40% herbivores
60% carnivores

Later on when humans are added the population percentages could be like this:
30% herbivores
50% carnivores
20% human (half modern and half primitives)

[honest dove]

overpopulation should NOT be a thing, unless on realism servers it will ruin the environment or the rules of the server

[plucky sequoia]

the carnotaur could give 300 bite force and the Deinosuchus 650

[hidden python]

carno bite feels busted against tenonto and utah

[lavish tundra]

PLEASE buff juvie teno once pachy is added

considering that teno/carno are the two biggest "pseudo mid tiers" and both have a even fight when fully grown, why does juvie carno demolish juvie teno? I'm assuming this is because when utah/teno were the only dinosaurs in evrima, juvie teno had to be weaker so utah could have a chance in match up........ but once pachy is added and can function as utahs true rival, (both are the same weight) there's no reason to keep teno so weak

For a "brawling herbivore" it sure is shit at fighting for a majority of its life

[feral junco]

Hello everyone. I came here to ask for the buff of our beloved crocodile. This person, in his 5 hours of growth, must kill yut with one poke, like any other apex. He, in turn, will not even be able to kill juvi yuta.
I just came from the seventh European test server, where I fought with the Utah, I did not die, but the fact that I, hitting the Juvi Ute did not kill her with one blow, I will be a complete Adolt of a crocodile ... I was just amazed. this sinister tyrant must keep everyone near the water at bay, but here it is just a pitiful snot that is not capable of killing a Utah with one bite.

[young cairn]

I think Carno needs some sort of nerf to prevent the ease at which they can cover the map and kill any medium prey with ease. I say this as a carno main who has never found any size of utah pack a threat and it's very easy to fend off 10 of them at once by myself. Just about carno's only threats is adult deinos, stegos, and each other, all of which they can easily just avoid. As a solo carno I feel boringly unthreatened. Several times I've seen a KOS pack log on and just run across the map killing anything they can and leaving the bodies behind; each time this has noticeable effects on the server's ecosystem and the areas they've been through becomes barren with no medium prey. This is very noticeable--I often wonder where the hell everyone is, find a pack of carnos, and realize oh that's why.

Here's some ideas, I'm NOT proposing all of them at once:

1- Reduce Carno's stam, in which they travel by trotting and conserve their speed for bursts in a hunt. Being the fastest land predator, I think their stam needs to be a greater concern in battle and running them out of stam should be a strategy. They shouldn't be able to using their greatest combat advantage to zip great distances at ease. To balance this, perhaps their trot could be increased so that travelling isn't frustratingly slow but they still have something to actually worry about in a fight.

2- As others have said, make them take longer to reach max speed. This way the speed-based predator is only truly a threat when moving.

3- Increase how much Carnos are slowed by being pounced. Utahs are quite big compared to them and should weigh more; being pounced by a utah doesn't feel like a threat when the nearest tree is half a second away. In fact I WANT to be pounced--it makes it easier to kill them by knocking them off. As a carno, utahs are way more threatening when they don't pounce. I think fighting a large pack of utahs in an open field should be a greater threat to a solo carno.

[zenith minnow]

Utah: will be annoying when in too large of packs up until Gore update.

Tenonto: Juvie needs to have either more agility or higher bite force.

Hypsi: Spit needs better hit box detection

Dryo: Needs burrowing or something of the like to incentivize more dryo players

Deino: Left-click tap (Bite)
Left-click hold, on release (Lunge)
Right-Click (Tail Whip)
Tail whip to not reward ass riding. Don’t have it do much damage but maybe slight knock back or something.

[pastel pumice]

Utah does way to much damage with its grapple and should be nerfed tremendously, a single utah did half of a stegos HP and that is way to much

[limber canyon]

Make trees less OP. The amount of times I or other stegos have been stuck is crazy...

[hollow tangle]

deathmatch servers so we can balance check and have fun at the same time 🙂

[frigid crypt]

Tenos gotta swim faster, it's got a huge tail yet doesn't seem to know it when it's swimming

[boreal pendant]

Pteradons should be able to carry smaller/baby dinosaurs, everyone should be afraid of birds

[hollow ridge]

Adult stegos shouldnt be able to hit stegos less than 50% growth that is in your group. It makes protecting a baby as an adult stego nearly impossible since it cant stick close to you for protection without getting hit.

[opal heart]

Eating your own species should fill your stomach normally, but it empties 4 times faster

[compact locust]

I find it sad that as a herbie main, I have these wonderful fields with beautiful trees and such, but there are simply no bushes to eat. I understand the idea is to graze, but that only stops food dropping, it doesn't actually fill. So I can't enjoy field life as much cause there are no food bushes/very spaced out, and always so far from water. There should be better bush balance so herbies aren't seen once in a blue moon in the field. Even to have varying bushes that can only provide one, five, ten bites so herbies still have to migrate. But right now I worry to migrate from a bush I know cause I don't know when I'll see another one. That, and, when grazing there could be a visual debuffs as your head is down/in a bush which is a natural and known thing (that's why herds take turns eating, so someone has eyes up)

[pine grove]

y'all talking about how we can't buff deino because of balance as if they don't take 5 hrs to grow. Do you honeslty think a dino that can grow in an hour should have a good chance against something that takes half my day to grow? of course not! All matchups shoudn't be even, sometimes the right thing to do is to just run. and given that deino basically can't leave the water I really don't see the issue people have.

[young cairn]

I like the current deino-stego balance; deino should absolutely have to fear something with a huge thagomizer. With that being said I do think it’s a little silly that stego can stick it’s butt in deep water without fear; deino should fairly fear land but be the apex of the water.

Here’s 2 different ideas (NOT proposing both at once)

1- Buff deino’s attack while IN water, so that land is still a weakness but they’re the apexes of the water. However the downside is that this would affect the deino’s balancing with other dinos as well (and I really like that it’s rare but possible to escape them in water)

2- Reduce Stego’s tail swing attack WHILE IN deep water, or to underwater targets. Just as wading through deep water slows your motions, and just as they can’t swing while swimming, it makes sense that they wouldn’t be able to swing their tail as strongly through deep water. This would virtually only affect the stego-deino balance in water while still maintaining stego’s strength on land and not harming the balance of any other dinos

[modern quail]

BRUH. Apparently I have just gotten killed by 2 ass-riding adult raptors as a sub dieno. i know they don't want dieno to be over powered but... how can a 2 raptors after 12 hits not die, when i am literally 8 times the size????? i think im a little to angary but still. BTW I was 63% edit: im stupid and they clearly had the right to kill me lmao, i think i was just a little toxic

[lavish tundra]

Water Apex not Land Apex lol 2 Utah's 100% should wipe out a Deino on land, go back to the river you came from. You can literally 1 shot a utah without them ever seeing you from underwater. Fighting on land long enough that they killed you is hilariously misplay.

[hazy chasm]

I've noticed carno's bite hitbox hits way ahead from its mouth. It doesn't fit the model size. I've taken several bites on different days and servers as utah fighting carnos, running some meters away and sometimes not even in front of them. I already checked if it could've been caused by lag or utah tail hitbox, but didn't take damage from any other creature like that even with bad ping. I guess it's because of the resize, so please don't forget to adjust that hitbox to its proper size. It's really annoying and almost harder to kill carnos now than before, since you take bites from nowhere you can really see.

[lavish tundra]

Dinos like Utahs, Dryos, Hypsis (every land dino) should have their speed scaled down. It's nearly impossible to see anything while running, even worse for people with bad fps, then it makes you feel really dizzy. I know the map is big and you want to get fast from one point to another but it just feels so wrong compared to Legacy.

[novel eagle]

Make it so bigger animals like carnos, make noise when they are walking or running, if you play a carno or a bigger dino, you can hear the footsteps, but if you arent, you can barely or sometimes not even hear their footsteps. Theres been way too many instances where an adult carno has somehow managed to ninja its way up to me without me noticing it, running full pelt at me and only sound sometimes plays when his either a step or two behind me (then its too late) or it doesnt play till im in its mouth/dead. There is no skill playing carno, i play raptor because its alot more difficult to survive, carno is overplayed by so many people because its easy to pvp and survive, needs balancing.

[opal heart]

Hypsi was my favourite and now it's ptera. I don't play others anymore, mainly because growing for hours, dying and respawning as a juvie is so stupid. It would be perfect if you get one respawn (without losing progress) for every hour that you have grown (edit: you also have the option to respawn as a fresh juvie of the species you want, of course) (second edit: you only lose an hour of growth when you die)

With this feature, small species will be chosen less. It's different when they get climbing advantages: less speed impacts and steeper slopes on which they can walk, compared to heavy weights

[hazy chasm]

Adjust deino bite hitbox, just fought a bunch of carnos and less than half my bites landed even when my deino's mouth was directly in contact with their bodies. Deino doesn't worth the effort to play with rn, 5h growing for a really low bite force and a really small bite hitbox (should crash a sub carno body with just one bite). Okay I know cause of balance bla bla, but this low bite force is just exaggerated.

[worldly solar]

Make it so swinging attacks (left and right) dont do as much dmg if a dino shoves its tail down into water and swings beacuse water resistance.

A stegos tail is not a axe it shouldent just glide straight thru water and do full dmg. Water should lessen the force and reduce dmg.

Water resistance should not be ignored.

[opal heart]

Make genders just cosmetic. You only need a player of your own species to start a nest. Gay is okay

Edit: otherwise, gender should be random

Second edit (after much rejections): sorry for pleasing my own suggestion

Nah seriously, make genders random and give males and females different 1 calls so they can find each other in that way

[marsh canopy]

Only way you can balanced Stego is to add a visible wind-up to their attack. make it so they MUST wind up their tail in a direction to attack in, and the longer they hold this the more stam it drains. they can also cancel the wind-up to but this also costs a bit of stamina to do. this will punish bad stegos who just spam tail attack and win thanks to how busted it is right now.

[vast wadi]

If a utah lands a pounce on let's say, carno's face, it shouldn't teleport to the side, it should stay on carno's face until the utah either gets off or dies. If it lands a pounce on stego's tail or the plates, it should get impaled by the tail, or get knocked off instantly by the plates.

In the initial release of evrima, utahs wouldn't simply teleport to a tenonto's side, rewarding utahs that would play smart and land their pounce on the sides and punishing utahs that would play dumb and land their pounce right on the butt or on the face of a tenonto.

Right now, stegos get shredded by a pack of utahs because of the huge amount of bleed that they deal, and because a utah can just pounce the tail once the stego swings too early, or pounce the head, and with either of those the utah will instantly teleport to the side so the utah can't get attacked while pouncing. This is made even worse now that utah's pack limit has been increased from 6 to 8.

I understand that utahs are supposed to take out very large things when in packs, but having utahs be able to act this careless and get away with it because of the huge amount of bleed damage they deal with pounce, and the fact that they will always teleport to a dino's side is just ridiculous.

[frigid crypt]

It would be cool if different places would take different amounts of stamina to stay pounced on, say you did pounce on a stegos head/neck/front torso area it would do more bleed, but drain faster and the bucking punishment would be more severe since iirc stego rears in its bucking animation.

Same thing with tenonto, if you pounce at its face the teno could knock you off via clawing and it would do damage, but if held on long enough you could do lots of bleed to the teno.

These higher bleed front areas would deal more damage to the victim, but also have a higher risk

If timed right and correct coordination, you could pounce towards the head of a teno when it's bucking, and pounce towards the rear ish when stego is bucking. Idk just some brainstorming ideas, if you have anything to add feel free to ping me in #balance-feedback-discussion

Kinda just looking for a way to make the pounce take more precision, and take more thought towards aiming

Also make pounce take more to work for bigger prey, you only need 2 full pounces and continuous prodding to doom an adult stego. Pounce should be a huge tool in Utah combat, but only when used correctly, and allow it to have a high risk, high reward type of system

[potent chasm]

I spawned in as a hypsi and I found out that you can escape the deino bite hitbox if you walk right up until you collide with the deino. (You have to be a sufficiently small Dino tho)

[trim solar]

game is broke fix the mix packing so im not fighting a carno protecting a freaking baby tenno

[fierce dagger]

ptera stamina slowly regens when it glides

[tight sierra]

what up with the giant carno packs of 30 on every server

[hollow robin]

Stego needs a serious nerf, thing can kill full grown croc in a couple of hits, really ridiculous

[rose abyss]

The grazing mechanic is a trap for herbies as they will slowly starve to death. If you take time to go to the water to drink then will starve as grass doesn't give you any food only stops you from loosing food while you graze. If there is no net gain at all then it shouldn't be an option, you shouldn't be able to starve to death while eating.

[boreal pendant]

Motion blur should be turned on to 100% and you shouldnt ever be able to turn it off, not even in the config files

[opal heart]

Let's talk about stegos. They just don't feel like stegos. Yes, they eat bushes, move not too fast and have tail armor, but as soon as there are dangerous players around them, their herbivore life stops and turns into something weird. No offense to a game in early access, it's just how I feel

A lonely stego is an easy target for carnivore packs. Two or more good carnivore players and the stego will be dead

Stego herds are always ready for war. It's as good as impossible to hunt them, given their combined power. Even if you manage to take down one of them, the rest will guard the body

Believe me: this is far from nature. It's also a big miss of potential in the isle. Either packs or herds have a massive advantage. It's not even challenging if you are at the better side

A lonely stego in real nature was less protected than in a herd. It had one advantage: always the best food available, because it had no herd around it that already ate it away. This food made the stego fitter and stronger, also the better fighter it needed to be

Stegos in a herd would feel safer, but were they really? Probably not too much. As I said, there was less nutritious food available for all of them so they would get weaker and lose quite a bit of that safety. Instead of being ready to fight, they would tend to get in the middle of the herd

This can all be implemented with the diet system. Eating the right plants keeps stegos strong. Just eating grasses lowers their stamina, speed and agility (slam speed and force). If one herd member dies, the rest has to move on because the food's not lasting forever

Herbivores heavily rely on vision. They can see pretty much everything around them, be it two carnivores left and right, food or herds for safety. In the isle, this is just as important. Stegos head needs to stop turning with the camera, do we want it to be more than a good duell fighter. They need a speedlock button, so the player can focus on the environment instead of input

[fiery gulch]

The small pause during the animation of the dryo's dodge also makes your hitbox static for a second, which totally screws over the purpose of the dodge being a mechanic for a split-second save from an attack. Also the directions are extremely hard to control (if they aren't completely random??). It'd be a lot more fun if you could tap A or D to control direction.
Also the speed buff is fine, things like utahs and carnos should be focusing on ambushing/landing opportunistic hits rather than always being able to outrun/outstam their prey.

[indigo ice]

Deino does NOT need a buff
It's bite hitbox is just weird and needs to be fixed. A Deino alt bit me but missed when it really should have hit. That needs to be fixed.

[unique solar]

I'd argue that deino DOES need a buff... but only a small one. Increasing biteforce to 600-650 should suffice. Though I agree the hitboxes are also a large problem.

[hazy chasm]

Actually I think deino doesn't just need a buff (ofc it does), all dinos bite force should be changed along the measurement system. Biggest crocodiles have around 16000N bite force, TRex bite was at least 20000, it's just hilarious that in game deino has just 600N. And same happens with every other creature. I don't think carno had a way stronger bite than utah, which is weaker than a baby human bite rn Idk if it's a mistake or something in the code doesn't allow to use real measures, but would be nice if it was changed and readjusted for each species. Okay balance bla bla, but still more realism is always better.

[visual zinc]

I want to agree with all the people that say Deino need a buff. For this reason i will show my point of view in why it needs a buff right now.
im well aware that devs have said things will change with time but the situation with the stegos is not fun at all. I have read the people saying that we should buff other mechanic of deino instead of the bite force and i disagree. For me, all the mechanics for the deino are very good, and i dont think it should be able do drag a full stego into the water by no means, i think the weight being a factor for dragging is pretty good , but, both of them have 5 hours to grow and it feels like deino is just nor worth it because it lacks the raw power and ambush predator ( and a crocodile ) should have. My solution is much more simple than buffing the rest of the mechanics, and it is buffing the damage he does, the bite force, to deal the equivalent of damage his counterpart of 5 hours does ( with this im not saying the same damage btw ). I dont want deino to be better in land because that is not his domain, his domain is water and he is good in that domain but being near the river without any fear of them and just camp there killing them i think shows that it is not balanced and not worth to spent that time growing one. I know that deinos in the past had more powerful bites than the T.rexs and i have seen the people that wants that, but i dont want deino to have more bite force than one if the devs dont want him to be an apex ( for now ) and of course we need to balanced the current roster of dinos we have without one being too overpower. With all of that being said, i think stego stands out too much agianst deino being that both of them are in the same category, and deino should get a damage buff, one that will not put stego to shame, but give the deino his deserved title of king of the river.

[sinful hatch]

more plants for herbivores to eat thats it just more food for the herbivores don't care where just so they dont starve off of grazing

[tight sierra]

teno stam regen should be faster or kicks/tail slam uses less stam

[mental rain]

Utah packs have too much power. I saw a pack of 12 utahs demolish my adult stego and two adult tenos like it was nothing.( the fact that there was 12 doesn’t matter. I’m talking about the three Utahs that crippled me. May as well have been three Utahs vs my stego) The buck mechanic is actual garbage for what its purpose is, as it uses up more stam than what it’s good for. My adult stego had to use almost all its stamina to get three Utahs off of me, then I was basically free food. That isn’t balanced. After I got them off of me, they didn’t even really fall down. They just ran away. I also hit one after it “fell off” and it didn’t kill it. I don’t think it’s very balanced to have almost all of your stam be gone as a stego from 3 Utahs. After a stego has all its stam gone, it’s dead. Actually read all of it before reacting with anything

[steady gull]

change carno a bit make it turn slow while running or take a little bit to get to full speed because rn its to strong be fore on legacy it was more well balanced because it had to start up a bit before full speed and it had bad turn while running carnos on evrima can turn on a dime and start up instently i think they should take a few seconds to get to full speed and also turn much slower to make them more fair

[hollow ridge]

Dont buff the deino, just fix its hitbox so its lunge and bite consistantly works. I swear, i have been lunged right in the face as a raptor and have it not grab me.

[cunning cedar]

Carno can't stun people when it hits their tail but Teno can stun someone if their tail slam hits someone's tail. Please fix that.

[dawn tundra]

Hypsi spit really needs a larger hitbox. It's just not reliable as a defensive mechanic at the moment

[slender cloud]

I noticed a lot of people complaining that deino needs a buff and if it would get a buff rn it would be to strong cause the only thing that can really keep the deino in check is stego if it should get a buff then only if there are more bigger dinos on land or spino to keep deinos in check, maybe then if its to weak maybe buff it but then more like a grapling buff or a tiny dmg buff to 600 or 650 N but he definitly doesnt need it rn.The only thing it needs is a hitbox fix its really annoying ngl.

[frigid crypt]

Recently I made a post about pouncing, so now let's look at bucking.

I think bucking needs to be revisited, atm it's a bit broken and extremely unreliable. At the current point of evrima, players are relying more on sticking their faces in trees rather than the actual mechanic in order to remove utahs. So here are some ideas to improve bucking.

Faster Draining for bigger animals - Currently, (stego) larger animals have a slower, longer bucking animation that drains stamina. So increase the stam drain punishment on utah, since right now it seems more punishing for the stego to buck.

Make movement increase punishment - If you are pounced as a teno or carno, running while bucking should dramatically increase drain punishment.

Give tenos bucking cc again - Tenonto used to be able to do damage in its bucking animations, but now, even when it's kicking. Players can hop on, interrupting the bucking animation and hopping on free of cc. (As far as I know)

Just some brainstorming ideas to make bucking more useful, because having to rely on trees, which are meant to assist you in knocking off utahs, shouldn't be the only reliable way to get utahs off of you.

There should be less of a stam drain punishment to utah when more than one is on at one time, and much more of a punishment when a single utah is on promoting the idea of coordination and working as a team to take an animal down. And pouncing should also slow the animal down a bit.

Fights are rather quick, and pounce drains so much bleed with little risk atm, so just increase the precision and risk factor so victims won't drop so easily.

There is also a bug when you phase through a victim when pouncing and pounce a team mate on the other side of the victim. So.. uh, yeah. Any add ons or revisions let me know in
#balance-feedback-discussion
With a ping

[unique coyote]

The stegosaurus growth time is 5 hours that is 2 carnos growth time stegosaurus it has to be reduced by 1 hours and a half or make carnos growth time 3 hours and half think about it 2 carnos can kill stegosaurus esay and stegosaurus cant attack from the front and it to slow and rex the coming some times next years or this year

[uneven tree]

tenonto being a bit under 2 hours to grow and dryo only being 30 minutes is a nice change I'm pleased to see. Utah only being 75 minutes is interesting, though I suppose makes sense given how somewhat weak they are solo. For the most part pretty pleased with the balancing changes that have happened, though I'm sure I'll have more to say after playing for a while ;)

[indigo ice]

The new balance changes sound amazing, and I cannot wait to try it out. Bucking sounds like it's no longer useless

[frigid crypt]

Sometimes it takes a bit for tenonto to start its bucking animation (overall it's kinda weird), other than that. Absolutely amazing job with update 3 👍

[lunar peak]

instead of making deinos or whatever their called make nest they should have to dig holes to lay their eggs is that can be sniffed out by utahs and other carnivores and mabey even be dug up and eaten, and it isnt a great idea to let them do it too close to the water so yeah just sharing what i think would be coool

[errant moon]

Deino

Z button interacion while swimming, for a stealthier/slower swim

[rich sedge]

So many people can't play evrima instead of Legacy because of the amount of the frame drop, that Is absolutely huge. Please focus on optimize and boosting the fps. (Thanks for the great work)

[drowsy rampart]

Deino having blood on its face when its eating or biting in the water doesn't make much sense. Also you actually need to get out of the water and go back in in order to clean your face

[dense cave]

Decrease energy reduction of tenonto tail/slam by 15% allowing us to save atleast a bit of energy to fight more

[vital plaza]

the utah fall damage is ridiculous. i had over half health and jumped down a small hill and by small, i mean small, and died. it was barely a fall- and yet over health my health was taken and it killed me. utah is capable of jumping- youd imagine itd have a higher tolerance to fall damage.
also like to mention bucking. its a great balance, but every time i pounce, i get instantly bucked off then stuck? i cant move and get killed.

[modern quail]

I don't get it at all lmao. Carnotaurus is the fastest Dinosaur that will ever be on the Isle EVRIMA. Yet even with it's powerful legs that are built for LONG sprints, it has one of the slowest swim speeds? The legs on this Dino are jacked and muscular. It should at least have twice the speed it has now, and also because all of the nerfs it got in the new update. So maybe a buff to it's swim speed a little bit? 🦵 EDIT: I am not talking about a huge buff like making it 30mph in the water, but making it from 10-15mph in water

[unkempt lagoon]

anyone else feel like the map is still too big? I'm on a 150 person server and I still haven't found anyone. The gameplay is all concentrated at the water (understandable because of crocs) but then why is there so much dead space around the margins? Not to mention the dense jungle and terrain just makes the map even bigger and harder to get across with shorter sightlines. Devs need to log how long it takes someone to take pvp damage on average and if its more than like 15 min i think the players are just too spread

[wheat gulch]

Increase the amount of stam usage on land for crocs as they get larger because at the moment with cannibals running rampant it is impossible for smaller crocs to escape them

[robust marlin]

I get Deino being slower and more vulnerable on land but I've seen more than once now a couple of adult Utahs (2-3) hop in the water and just swim in a shark circle piranha-ing to death a fully grown Deino and several sub and juvie Deinos while the Deino's couldn't even land hits because of janky hitboxes, so clearly something needs to be balanced out because Deino is supposed to be the apex (see: currently only) predator of the water, but a few lazy circles can see a handful of Utahs demolish a whole pack of Deinos with little to no punishment in the place they're supposed to have a clear disadvantage

Edit; I never said I was one of the people that got piranha'd, I just said I saw it lol

[tacit mesa]

Readjusting the IKs and weight on the pteranodon to remedy the issue of pulling the dinosaur into the water like a vacuum, and adding in a light sort of assist or stabilization while flying over the surface of the water. Currently the skimming mechanic feels too fussy and difficult to master, and this would remedy the hairline procedure that is currently trying to skim for fish, without being as worried that one slight adjustment will send you careening into the water. A mechanic needed for basic survival should feel smooth and natural, not like a stressful task every single time, taking the fun out of the fact that this is a game. You would still need to be careful and accurate when diving in and out of course, still giving a healthy learning curve.

[modern quail]

water isn't deep enough and wide enough

[hardy compass]

Feeback on Utah : He needs some balance, I were with an adult stego and just one Utah is so much difficulties, On my back the time to go against a tree is too long he can jump easily. With several Utahs there is no chance. When there will be Trike I don't know what will be the situation

[frigid crypt]

Teno: Revert teno buck back to the kick multiple times in order to engage it, teno bucking animation is literally one of its attacks and I've noticed that when getting pounced multiple times, a utah can interrupt your secondary attacks and cause a 2 - 3 second delay of the bucking animation. So even if you are holding it down, it takes several seconds to actually engage in the buck. The first introduction of tenonto buck was amazing and this "Press E to Buck" still has lots of flaws when getting pounced in several numbers. Its the biggest weakness that teno has over utah.

Reverting teno buck back to taking secondary kicking attacks would also allow tenos bucking to do damage. Its literally kicking, yet gives no cc and allows utahs to freely attack the teno without any true punishment.

When getting attacked by packs, utahs can simply overwhelm the tenos attacks just by numbers, causing everything to delay and studder, which is... disappointing.

[kindred topaz]

growing a carno is just about impossible when there's so many utahs. them having their growth buffed to just over an hour to fully grow while it takes carno 2hrs and 15mins to fully grow has made it so wildly difficult - obviously everyone is going to grow a utah now, they barely take any time and if they die then hey, just another hour to get to almost full again

utahs so easily overwhelm things at this rate it's sucking out a whole lot of the fun of the game, and now with carnos stamina nerfed it's difficult to outrun them too. being pounced even by one utah as a carno is certain death when you aren't fully grown, let alone when there's a whole pack of the things trying to feed their two dozen packmates. i can barely make it past juvi, let alone either of the sub adult phases - same goes for people i've played with. even the juvi utahs are a nuisance to juvi carnos, i don't get why they do so much damage even at knee height.

i don't know what i'd suggest - make utah growth longer, or carnos shorter? revert carnos stamina to what it was? give them some reason to be cautious around a predator their own size or bigger? as long as it makes carno something you can actually play

[rigid sky]

!bal

[dawn tundra]

Bucking needs some serious work... it's useless. In the case of Carno and Teno, even with just the one utah on you, you still have to use half of your stam bar just to maybe get it off and at that point at least half of your health bar has been deleted and you're already screwed. Utah packs are still completely decimating and wiping out everything they come into contact with and there is still no effective counter play

[split gulch]

This isn't entirely game changing or anything but it would be nice if there are fallen fruit in the map. Not too many or too nourishing, just enough to give herbivores some more time. I guess more surviving herbs will add more meat mass for carnivores idk. Also because I really want to see a hypsilophodon holding a mango like a mini me

[edgy cape]

I think there is only 1 real problem for the Ptera at this point. I think it handles excellent, and attacks are fine. if you screw up you're instantly dead. I can live with that.

But the one thing i think needs tweeking to make it viable to hunt in dense forests is for you not to accelerate, everytime you press space.

Everytime i tap space to get lift, i also accelerate forward. when hunting in dense forest its very difficult to keep track of prey and also steer away from trees. Especially having to spacebar - aibrake to not accelerate into every tree. If space only gave you lift, and shift kept giving you speed, it will put the control of the bird more into your own hands, and you can improve hunting in the forest.

I dont need to accelerate unless i want to, and when i want to i use shift.

[hot stream]

pounce is pretty trash now one tento bucks for 1 second and i lost 75% of my stam

[still crescent]

Why release such a major feature like bucking when it is obviously not tested and severely unbalanced for both parties, defender and aggressor. These features is what you test before bringing it towards a stable branch.

[wise nexus]

Make it so only quadrupedal dinos can buck and move at the same time.

[gleaming cedar]

Kinda annoying how the dryo takes seemingly forever to disengage from a bush when you stop eating. Should be able to run off immediately if you see a carnivore, not go through a second long leisurely last chew before you can move. carnivores can stop eating in a heartbeat.

[south totem]

the deino is supposed to compete with a rex right then why does it 2 shot utahs and not one shot them (increase bite force on deino)

[livid venture]

Hypsi spit should have a larger hitbox and on top of that should maybe darken the corners of the victims screen for a time even after wiped off

[safe torrent]

Something has to be done about the fact that Deino can't one shot a utah. It fits in your damn mouth, how can it survive getting headshot?

Either give the Deino more damage (very unpopular opinion) or lower Utah's health to something that a Deinosuchus and other large carnivores can work with. Utahs aren't meant to tank hits from things that are literally more than 8 times heavier, especially something like a gator, which should have more bite force to weight than anything else.

"Just use RMB" isn't really a valid argument, the point I'm trying to prove is not that Deino is incapable of killing a utah in one move. I'm saying that if this utah tries to solo kill my Deino, I flip around and bite it's head off, it should be sent to the damn shadow realm, not shrug it off, wallow, and move on with it's life. Why shouldn't Utah get killed in one hit? It's totally balanced for the size difference!

This isn't a "buff Deino" suggestion, it's a "fix this bug" suggestion.

[vast wadi]

Utah really needs a health nerf, it can deal lots of damage, bleed, jump around, out maneuver just about everything, pounce, only grows for 1 hour and 15 minutes, and only has 500 kg, yet it for some reason has 1000 health meaning it can tank a lot of bites for something that small, and keep in mind our utah is nowhere near as bulky as an actual irl utah would be.

[frigid heron]

fall damage is not working properly when the 500 kg utahraptor is losing a ton of health from walking off of 4-6 foot ledge, when it normally can jump that high in place. fall damage does not seem to be scaled properly especially for the utah

[wide stone]

Deino don`t need buf, but something is wrong with demage vs carno. Carno is 1800kg according to the isle wiki, but somehow it manages to deal alot demage to deino, and do not die from one bite. If everything works as its written, then deino does 2222 dmg to carno, and carno has 2000 hp with weight of 1800, how he survives? I think that 8 tons must crush carno, they are not rivals or something. I fought carno 1 on 1 with full deino, and did not kill kim with one bite :/

[nocturne pebble]

Maybe unpopular opinion, but I think there should be some kind of damage restrictions that take size and bite force into consideration. I shouldn't be able to bring down a full grown carno as a baby utah regardless of how bad they are or how good I am. It would be like a lion cub killing a full grown croc.

[humble finch]

AI doesnt spawn. Bushes are rare in such a "green" environment. u guys need to fix that(evrima). grass system doesnt provide enough food..

[haughty gazelle]

nerf crocs health

[dry fern]

agreed deinos are to op until they have rexes or spinos in evirma.

[vast wadi]

Locational damage currently doesn't work correctly for the deino https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/401464048610312195/838561014974119996/LocationalDamageFunni.mp4

On the topic of deino hitboxes, please fix them, i was a dryo and a deino lunged right at me, i should've been dead but i managed to escape either way

[novel sail]

Okay... WHY IS DEINO'S BITE DAMAGE SO LOW TO BEGIN WITH? Even IF the hitboxes didn't work, Dryo should have been dead after a few bites.

You know... also... if ONE Deino cannot take down a stego...

Why can't two deinos cooperate and lunge at a stego to take it down? There's no reason why 2-3 deinos should cower at one stego.

[dense cave]

hypsi NEEDS a better aim mechanic, you literally just waste food on your stomach lol

[median ravine]

I can show you documented footage proving you are wrong. You are literally pulling numbers out of your ass & embellishing a self soothing narrative. I’ve listened to your anti pounce rhetoric for too long. I INVITE you to my training server where I can disprove your pounce v buck nonsense. as others have said, buck currently drains pounce stam too much. A teno can FULLY drain a pounce in 3 sec bucking leaving stamina to run away. My hunting discord has many skilled players. We hunt in packs and kill everything. We have two training servers and we’ve systematically tested everything. we train to understand and manipulate fights into our favour. We were the guys who discovered and popularised the ‘stego tail bug’ that subsequently saw stego tail buff/fix. You WILL die vs a pack. That’s supposed to happen. Bucking won’t save you. But the wider community are vastly uninformed and regurgitate second hand information & often false that people like you spread because your salty that you died. The community will never be happy until pounce is removed or nerfed into non existence. Right now your stunned if you miss. Stunned when you get off. Damage nerfed but bleed bolstered. Buggy, you still float on random dismounts and die unfairly with bugs that, by this stage, are unacceptable for a game in developement since 2015. It’s whiney complaining like this that put pressure on devs to make changes that damage the game overall. We shouldn’t have this much power to change a game to suit our own agenda. Pounce had a stamina buff to compensate for bucking. In fact if you DONT buck a full pounce lasts 20 seconds and will deal about 50% hp and 60% bleed to a carno in the absolute best case scenario however It’s impossible to use that as a standard example though since running for position, bucking and tree/rock rubbing stop it. You have all the tools to counter pounce, use them, but you will die to an organised pack micro managing ‘team stamina and pounces. quit complaining.

[pine grove]

Hot take: herbivores should grow faster on a full stomach to incentivise active gameplay and maybe help counter the over saturation of carnivores on the map.

[humble finch]

can you PLEASE increase the group limit for all the species? its a GAME after all and this GAME is played by FRIENDS. it sucks tbh not to be able to group with ur friends...

[unique solar]

Carno feels a bit strong right now and charge feels a little underpowered. What I mean is that the other carni playables all rely on their abilities to a degree (utah pounce can bring down stegos, deino lunge is essential to survival, ptera fishing is incredibly useful), but carno charge has been pretty irrelevant for a few reasons.

Right now carno has the biteforce, acceleration, and turn radius to just run up to small things and bite them, as opposed to hitting them with a charge. I think that it might be necessary to slightly nerf carno's biteforce, turn radius, and possibly acceleration a bit, while buffing charge to incentivize its usage. After a good bit of time both playing as and playing against carno, it feels like charge is very underused and underpowered when carno is already so strong without it.

[lavish tundra]

At least until a carnivore that counters Carno is added, you should really decrease Carno’s group limit back to 3. Carnos absolutely overpopulate every single corner of the map.

They’re the biggest terrestrial carnivore which is always attractive to the public and is gonna continue to get picked even after Update 4 releases. Being that overpopulated, having nothing that counters it directly, and with a group limit of 5 is a terrible equation for a chaotic ecosystem dominated by basically just one creature.

[kindred topaz]

hi carno main here, i don't think reducing pack limits will make any difference since people group up regardless of whether they're in a group together - i tried deino out last night and we were a big group of 10 or more even though we couldn't group due to the pack limits (so i'd argue that the pack limits are useless for all species, so far it doesn't make people stick to those numbers at all)

speaking of deino, i'm concerned with the state of it atm; hitbox problems aside, my fully grown packmate with full stamina lunged a carno, dragged it under, and for some reason it still managed to get away. we attacked it as it walked away and it still ended up running away with the shred of its stamina somehow. that's a problem imo, being dragged under by an adult with full stamina should mean certain death for anything.

i'm sure others have said it, but carnos shouldn't feel safe in the presence of an adult deino. the fact a group of 3 adult deinos aren't intimidating enough to scare off a small pack of them is just.. weird and dumb.

deinos need to be more tanky, being bit half a dozen times by a carno shouldn't have a deino retreating. it's an 8 ton animal vs a 1.8 ton animal. and you might say Just Lunge 4Head, but it's proven to not even guarantee killing them which is stupid.

i don't know if deinos will get the fracture ability once it arrives, but i think it would be great if they did, it would actually make carnos feel there's more risk when fighting them. the possibility of not being able to run away after trying to facetank because of a broken leg would balance things out a lot

anyway, carno main out lol. i'm glad evrima carnos are so much better than they are in legacy, but there should be a limit to that vs apex animals 5x their size

[paper harbor]

i think dryo should be upscaled a little bit and be 200kg dont change the bite but it would be cool to see like a kick attack for the dryosaur just like a kangaroo kick

[shell hill]

I think it’s pretty balanced It makes sense why carnos would have a nerfed stamina since there the fastest land carnivore it wouldn’t be that fair if they ran that fast without losing too much stamina

Utah’s are really only useful until there 100% when they can use there pounce so to give them a better chance at surviving I think it’s fair they buffed their growth time otherwise there bite wouldn’t do that much to defend itself that much

And Utah’s don’t really overwhelm anything we can easily get stunned by a lot of things like trees,rocks,carno charge, tenonto kick, tenonto tail, and missed pounces

[strange iris]

Pteranadons being able to see fish under the water's surface once they reach a certain height above the water let alone Deinosuchus would be rather handy to an animal with close to no defenses that doesn't often get a chance to scavenge corpses.

[hollow ridge]

Deino doesnt need a buff. Some of you guys just need to learn how to properly fight with it.

[charred elk]

I think currently a big issue is fall damage. I've died full grown walking off of hills that aren't as tall as my model on carno/steg/etc. or places you can easily jump up on as a baby utah let alone a full grown. I understand there currently isn't fractures implemented; however, I don't believe that slowing to a walk knowing there is a very small cliff in front of you (any hint of a brownish portion on the ground) should kill a majority of species instantly. Ever since Evrima came off of QA it seems that instant death has been a bit of an over-tuned solution while we wait on fractures. It feels pretty bad spending ~2 hours growing, finally becoming adult, and dying off a cliff smaller than your model. It will most likely be fixed with fractures, but currently it seems to be a little bit over-tuned. It'd be nice to see us losing a significant portion of our HP over losing a dino.

[modern quail]

Carnos ALT bite should deal just a little more damage then it's normal attack, because it's super slow and there is no reason why to use it. And also just turning in place and biting is faster than it's ALT bite.

[opal heart]

I think that the food and water drain times for stego need to be swapped, maybe even pushed beyond that. The current times are rediculously unbalanced. You have to drink more than twice every hour, while eating is more a rarity than a regularity. In fact, big herbivores can live quite long without water and spend a lot of time eating. Their food is on grass lands far from the waters. Without much need to drink, they can go there with no worries

Apart from how things are in reality, it's stupid to be tied to the water regions as such a large, outstanding animal. I would love to go to the inland fields and eat as much as I can, but instead, I'm worried about deinos seeing and eating me all the time. Short water drain is ok when you are fast and small, but a stego isn't. Yet it can live together with hypsies for a long time without any problems, except its own

Thirst, hunger and eating times need to be considered for other species as well. These things have a big impact on the life of any dinosaur. It's a good way to make different species actually different, rather than different versions of the same thing (which encourages mixing)

[unkempt lagoon]

deino water sense should only apply to surface splashes (surfacing, swimming, eating, etc) and not to underwater swimming. there's basically no way for small crocs to avoid giant ones in the confines of a river and the current implementation forces you to just afk and not move for an obnoxiously long time when growing.

[low lance]

What about nerfing baby deino's food but buffing its stam (at least on land)? It feels that its way too easy to afk grow yet if you actually try to play the game its only a matter of time until another deino runs you down since there's basically no way to escape since you have less stam, are slower, and just an immobile

[steady gull]

does deino lunge stun things like stegos and does its dart do damg to deinos

[lusty vine]

Raptors bite force to be increased to 150N as it is so weak as baby and cant pounce and also its bite does no damage

[vestal narwhal]

TLTR: PTERANODON are very very weak, buff biteforce a bit. 🥺 I am kinda annoyed on how weak the Pteranodons are and I will tell you why, I understand that they can fly and be free and escape easily but comon 50 max bite force? Deinosuchus spawn with 75 in their baby form. When I look for balancing of the pteranodons I compare it a bit to the deinosuchus, pteranadons get the sky the gators get the water, an easy escape from other predators. When I first tried evrima I selected pteranodon and thought this will actually be sick, got fully grown, and now time for some action I thought, oh what a mistake. Started by biting a baby-medium sized gator 5, 6,7 ,8 times, surely it has to be dead right? Ofc not what was I thinking im just some fly for him. I also think pteranodons arent the easiest predator to bite with, it requires a bit of skill and timing. For it to actually be able to do something u need a discord call with like 5-7 others and cordinate ur attack on someone. But then u might say gators can only move in water, the birds can move anywhere. The main source of food and water comes from the rivers, theres no food in the sky for the pteranodons to camp. I get that u might wanna use the pteranadon to learn the map, and spectate but I really think u can make them a bit stronger, make it a bit more time to grow and max bite 100 maybe. Utahs can easily just jump into u and u will fall to ur death. But hey its a dino game, doesnt have to be balanced, sure thing. Thanks for reading my rant.