general-feedback-discussion

[burnt bone]

You are the 1% then

[rare fractal]

This statement applies to literally all players no matter what animal they are

[vast mist]

for real- i hate seeing stegos fishing for deinos for literally no reason

tbh? I had 2 carnos save me from a pack of raptors once too

[autumn saddle]

I can literally grow a deino way better then a stego

[golden plaza]

I have a better time walking around as a carno vs a stego

[rare fractal]

They do have a reason, they want them dead

[vast mist]

deino is easier tbf

[limber hull]

Utahs and deinos both have stego on their diet, so they'll jump at the opportunity to kill a weaker one, and carnos hate stegos because stegos hard counter them, so bye bye stego. Pachys and tenos also get in on the action because they just hate stegos

[rare fractal]

The existence of a stego adds nothing to their experience aside from the potential stego white knight that ruins their 1v1, either that or just accidentally killing them

[vast mist]

if people just werent such jerks with tanky dinos there wouldnt be an issue lol;

[autumn saddle]

youd think it would be harder to grow a apex carny then a apex herby me over here able to grow everything carny super fast while herbies I tend to have harder time with mainly because as a herby I am getting hunted by everyone and their mom while trying to stay hidden but never works XD

[burnt bone]

Pachies just jump everything because “haha BONK haha”

[golden plaza]

So from this convo I've learned this:

1. Stegos are broken and need heavy work shopping.
2. IF I play a stego, I need to stay well hidden and hope someone doesn't see me or else I'm toast.
3. Play on an empty server for maximum 'don't run into people'ness
4. Dont be a stego

[burnt bone]

That’s just an issue with diets atm, hopefully will be fixed later

[burnt bone]

Yes, for the most part. I wouldn’t recommend #3 because then you can’t meet anyone.

[golden plaza]

I don't wanna meet people!

That's the problem

[burnt bone]

I mean as an adult

[golden plaza]

Why?

[burnt bone]

Adult stego is untouchable, and there’s nothing to do otherwise

[golden plaza]

I've seen a grown stego die to a rapter.

The thing kept bitting and adding bleed affect. Killed the thing in just a few minutes

[burnt bone]

Those are rare situations, and if it was a single raptor then the stego is just bad

[golden plaza]

I guess that just isn't my play style. I don't know how boring it is to just be a grown stego because I haven't gotten above 20%

[autumn saddle]

that maybe but raptor players usually know better then to be behind a stego so they never get attacked

[burnt bone]

That was likely not an adult stego, and if it was adult, then it’s very bad ngl.

[golden plaza]

It was. It was a friend, she was in my discord call

I can confirm the stego was 100%

[burnt bone]

I have seen packs of 5+ utahs attack stegos, normally takes 10-30 minutes

[golden plaza]

Bleed is brutal. Rapters are fast, stegos are slow. It's only a matter of time

[autumn saddle]

that and you cant buck off making it worse because they can stay on as long as their stam is good then get off run back because stego has terrible turn radius and they are slow so a raptor can attempt this attck to the point of bleeding out the stego

[rare fractal]

Wtf am I hearing.....

Have we reached the point of actually arguing a semi competent stego is threatened by utahs?!

[autumn saddle]

XD

[golden plaza]

Yes

[burnt bone]

Stegos also have a swing with massive range, massive health pool, and 1-shot raptors. I think your friend was just inexperienced

[rare fractal]

Cliffs
Water
Inclines
Find em, use em, you'll be literally unkillable

[golden plaza]

*noted

[rare fractal]

If you're in the open, that's simply you're fault for being in the environment that disadvantages you the most

[burnt bone]

Also, don’t run for long, just makes bleed worse.

[golden plaza]

Oo I didn't know that, noted

[rare fractal]

Seriously stegos being hard to grow is fine in the context of them being immune to death after hitting 60% or more

Still need attack reworks so they aren't so simplistic

[burnt bone]

But yeah, stegos are hard to grow and need to stay hidden as babies, then they hit adult and are only threatened by skilled utah packs

[limber hull]

we've now heard carno is underpowered, pachy is too strong and stego is utah fodder. Incredible

[rare fractal]

Tis truly a day to be remembered in the halls of dumbassery

[golden plaza]

Aka game needs improved, and that's ok

*improvement

[rare fractal]

All 3 of those statements Wave made are incorrect btw
In case anyone thought we weren't memeing

Someone would take that out of context.....

[golden plaza]

Thank you for your input and information. But its 11pm and I have work tomorrow

So long people is discord lol

[rare fractal]

👋

[barren crater]

Play on a dead server = full adult anything with no risks. Kind of lame way of going about it, but it works

[limber hull]

@zinc lion there's plenty of ways to get food solo, from hunting small AI like rabbits or chicken to scavenging the many corpses around the map. I find it rare to ever really starve as a juvi carni

[zinc lion]

I don't know what luck you're having, but I either find nothing, or get big things that take forever to kill. Also whenever I find corpses, there are adult carnis right next to it feasting on it. Am I supposed to walk on up and be like "how do you do sir, please don't eat me sir, I just need a bite to eat," like that would happen.

[gritty terrace]

@zinc lion the best way rn is going northeast and eating the turtles on the shore I do understand what you mean but there are a lot of ways to get food especially with the AI rn and if you spawn center or any hotspot there are just bodies everywhere

hope that helps

[burnt bone]

Another good tip is to try looking around the river from NW, center, and SE. those are generally the most populated areas and you will likely find an unattended body there

[gritty terrace]

^

[proven river]

@zinc lion you spawn with a small amount of food so you can fill your diet bars and grow faster, if you had full food you wouldn't be able to eat anything for your diet but if you started with full diet you would have enough to grow to 50% so it would waste the mechanic

[maiden anvil]

@celest basin sure it would be cool to have such environmental assets to the game but I prefer to just stick with arid schurblands

[jagged jewel]

even if its a tail hit the bleed will finish the utah off usually

[barren zephyr]

@jagged jewel I had the same idea with only showing the head, also posted it in general feedback. The coincidence sometimes... I made that concept along with it

[barren zephyr]

Yeah, nah
This was an big issue when diets were first implemented for carni's since the difficulty was amped up so high it was unbearable
Which is why the juvie diets "Fix" had to implemented until a better solution came

Reason for that is often times corpses are contested by superior adult counterparts. Carno's were slaughtering juvies all the time

The alternative of finding Ai to grow was difficult too. Considering the spawns are vague, there's almost no sound nor scent mechanics to navigate looking for that specific prey to find. It's just chance that you come across them. You could exploit the spawns. But if other players did that, or if adult counterparts did. Your options of intelligent decision making to feed/grow were limited

[low canopy]

small ai such as frogs and chicken should have some sort of audio cue similar to oro in the legacy, the entire point of this ai is to be found and eaten

[limber hull]

i still find the way it was done to be awful atm

[barren zephyr]

Again, we run into the issue yet again of the game's systems being barebones which damage the core experience from a lack of solidified gameplay retention loop
Through the checklist of design, this current iteration fails. Sure it'd be great to continue to "build upon" this iteration. But the next update is about skins/nesting. Gore is looking hopeful, but the main point is going to repair the basics.

[barren zephyr]

The thought is mutual

[limber hull]

you could literally do shit like "you get all nutrients from your food, but only things on your diet"

[barren zephyr]

Another principle that wasn't looked at in hindsight was that not everyone is going to play the things you wanna eat
Even if they did, as a juvie you couldn't do shit about hunting most of the time.

The growth around juvies might have to center around ai or sandbox elements to consistently provide a stable loop

[maiden anvil]

I would say mostly coastal but I don’t see why it shouldn’t visit other aquatic bioms like swamps or rivers

[maiden anvil]

The main reason why I thought austro should be a coastal animal is because we don’t have many (if not any) animals planned to mainly live at the coast. Although I can definitely agree with with 70% clearwater and 30% saltwater

[uneven mist]

Quetz also could go partly to the coast

[uneven mist]

It could go for velo, Porto or pteras🤷‍♂️

Hope so too

[maiden anvil]

Seaweed that grows in wetlands would be perfect for cherry

[zinc lion]

Sorry if this is a bit late, but I see your point. It just doesn’t seem fun when you’re given barely any time to find food before starvation. Maybe giving ai calls to find them would fix it, but I don’t know.

[proven river]

I generally have no trouble at all finding and hunting ai but that's just me if, I wish you good luck for the future i suppose

[sudden hinge]

@zinc lion you came from legacy with a legacy mindset and didn’t do your research that isn’t the newer iterations fault. Lose the legacy mindset and you might survive better in the game version that isn’t legacy 👌🏻

[limber hull]

what the hell is a pioneers fall

[pure quiver]

Neat!

[signal beacon]

My best guess is that waterfall near the ocean but idk

[limber hull]

isnt there a ton of fish there?

ive seen tons of pteras and deinos migrate down there for the hidden treasure trove of fish

[signal beacon]

Idk but assuming that deino practically lives off of fish more than ptera does they may just be upset there isn't an infinite supply

[limber hull]

@barren zephyr i believe they already had some kind of plan for families to override current group limitations

[barren zephyr]

oh ok

[sudden hinge]

Yeah we’re getting like a family group which will have non adult members count differently towards a group

[vocal echo]

@tight lantern your suggestion for the movement detection only at the surface + mud kick is awesome, just wanted you to know

[tight lantern]

Thank you! I try to have decent suggestions when I decide to make them. I'm a big advocate of longer grass being matted down for a period of time to show that something has moved through it recently as well.

[vocal echo]

that idea is also insanely good, keep em coming

[cyan flame]

@barren zephyr It's an interesting idea, but you need to add something similar for the utah, so the interaction goes both ways. I'd probably skip the whole having to match letters, but make bucking be used with A/D, while the utah can brace by doing the same, matching the bucking. So it's more of a try to buck while the utah is attacking, and the utah in turn stops to brace, making the buck more costly relative to stam drain and so on.

[fallow spoke]

@grim marten that'd be so damn cute

[grim marten]

Yes 🤲

[crystal trail]

@barren zephyr Keep in mind that not everything has to be scary for it to be a horror game. If everything is scary, nothing is.

[candid mulch]

@barren zephyr I’m confused on multiple things you said.First, the fact you dislike beipi sounding bird like when it literally resembles a bird the amongst the dinosaurs(excluding pteras ofc) and the second thing you said confused me also because do you expect everything to be scary?If I seen a beipi I definitely wouldn’t get close to it but that’s all it really needs

[barren zephyr]

The sounds aren’t badly designed at all; I just find an inconsistency in the design of how imposing an animal like Beipi looks versus how it sounds.

[pure quiver]

I finally drew a damn map with some basic game design details and made it a sort of expanding spiral, like a snail shell!
Implementing an ever-expanding scope of mechanics alongside a more accommodating map after each lesson.

• In order to see what's outside the cave, you gotta learn how to move. I made it very small and short for people who already know how to use "WASD" to move.
• As you leave the cave, you gotta find food and water! So I placed some food and water right outside, but prompting to use Q to scent anyways.
• After a nice drink and some munchies, a prompt appears (kind of like the TYPE-H messages that came up in Legacy server events) and you gotta hide from a natural predator! (Introduce a stealth mechanic for AI to not see you while crouching in bushes and staying still)
• The AI eventually sniffs you out and chases you!
• You can choose to fight it or flee it, eventually running away to find some mud to patch your wounds in safety.
• The you build a nest with another friendly AI
• Then run after your child and intorcue environmental hazards like cliffs, gysers, fires, storms, etc!

Finally, "Survive two day cycles" to get your achievement!

[crystal trail]

one sec will reply to this momentarily, got like two conversations going on in my headset

[barren zephyr]

The bird families that are most closely related to extinct non-avian dinosaurs don’t have singing bird sounds, but growly and rumbly sounds.

I don’t mind the sounds being inspired by birds, at all. It’s just that which types of birds are inspiration from those sounds.

Listen to ratite bird callings

Cassowary, ostrich

I’m not suggesting EVERY animal should feel rumbly, I just feel like in this particular case there is a big mismatch between visual and sound design in my perspective

[barren zephyr]

Yes of course, dw

[candid mulch]

So you basically don’t want high pitch calls because it’s not realistic?I see beipi calls as a good enough fit

Beipi looks like a duck tho

[barren zephyr]

Beipiaosaurus could reach weights of up to 1,000 kilograms

The animal they are using in The Isle could very much be up to 70-90 kilograms. That’s several dozen times bigger than a duck or a singing bird.

[candid mulch]

Yeah that statement wasn’t to be taken literally.Ofc it’s not a duck

It still resembles a duck However

[barren zephyr]

I just don’t see a 90 kilogram animal sounding that highly pitched. That’s all.

But it is indeed a matter of opinions.

[candid mulch]

Makes sense

[limber hull]

I literally do not understand it being heavy equalling not having high pitched calls

That makes literally zero sense to me

[candid mulch]

Same tbh

[limber hull]

https://youtu.be/5gBk04ajuxk

Here is a several hundred kilo animal which sounds very high pitched

[pure quiver]

I figured it'd kinda sound like the Steller's Sea Eagle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYfQwhJAIfc

[barren zephyr]

Yes; elk = therizinosaurid

No larynx momento

[limber hull]

i knew this would be the argument

my brother in christ it's the isle, they can make the bird sound however the hell they want and it can still sound realistic

[barren zephyr]

I agree. But you using a damn elk is totally irrelevant to your point

[limber hull]

my point was weight does not equal pitch, not beipi = elk

[barren zephyr]

You can show me big animals that have high pitch sounds and I can show you small animals that have really deep sounds

It’s literally irrelevant

[limber hull]

exactly

so why does it matter if beipi sounds high pitched

[pure quiver]

Oh, the eurasian bittern has a SUPER deep sound despite its size

[limber hull]

where the hell is pioneer falls and pioneer pool wtf

[barren zephyr]

Someone was saying that beipi's calls wouldn't fit a horror game. I agree to some point but we have to think- those are still animals. Not some freakshows that wait in a dark ally for you

[limber hull]

I agree, the game should be scary the same way being lost in the wild is scary. You aren't jumping at the sound of a bird call or a fox yip, but when you hear a howl or roar of something bigger, then you're scared. Making every animal a horror beast detracts from the elements of survival and natural beauty that this game also provides.

You aren't scared of a bear cub walking up to you, but you sure as hell don't want to meet its parents

Also feeding into "all dinos = monsters" trope for the sake of upping horror would be lame imho

[urban flax]

Also a sound becomes scary if what produces it is dangerous. If beipis turn out to be murder machines, everyone will be scared of beipi calls, that's how horror works.
Why the hell are people scared of the sound of little girls singing ? Because they watched one (or more) horror movie with little girls singing and it was scary.

[pliant vortex]

adding on if you were a mercanery treking thru the forest you wouldnt stop for a lil birb i would stop for the fudging sub adult deino passing by and then hearing the mother close ahead

[barren zephyr]

That's what I'm thinking!

[limber hull]

Yea, personally, I kinda like beipi's calls, they're very distinct

[proven river]

@compact anchor Why? I'll explain a few reasons I think it's not too good of an idea but I want to hear from you first, why would/should that be a thing?

[compact anchor]

Eh I know its a stupid idea but it was just something I thought was funny since birds sometimes land on crocodiles in the real world, but maybe the Ptera is too big for that and it just doesn't make sense in the prehistoric world

[maiden anvil]

@thorny lynx honestly, I think the new guy does a better job with calls then Dinosauriac

[proven river]

yeah but the deino could just sink then bite the ptera.

[compact anchor]

well yes ofcourse

[proven river]

it could work for the pterodactylus though

[compact anchor]

it all relies on the mood of the Deino

maybe if insects and parasites get added the Ptera could clean and pick them off of Deino's?

[proven river]

True but also a ptera might be too large for that so a juvie ptera yes and It would be a cool mechanic for a little interaction but you can never trust isle players.

[proven river]

yes that could work

[compact anchor]

yea smaller Pterasaurs could work

[proven river]

compy might be doing that as shown in concepts

[maiden anvil]

Pterodactylus?

[compact anchor]

yea yea

[proven river]

yeah that would be my reccomendation

[compact anchor]

I'm no paleantologist

[proven river]

it's the new pterosaur ai

[compact anchor]

ah

[proven river]

pretty much flying compy

this little thing

[compact anchor]

oh that one

[empty epoch]

thanks

[low canopy]

behind the scenes intensifies

[cunning anvil]

@empty epoch I think the developers are willingly/unwillingly inclined towards keeping a smaller but much more familiar, niche community until the development is at a better stage to be presented on a platter to other people outside/not familiar with the community. This actually feels somehow like they are exploiting our (close circle community) interest towards the game BUT I don't think that's the case. I think they are hesitating to seem that professional and completely transparent: displaying their every step on a single place on the internet which is very easy to reach.

I think according to them, this may actually break the hype of the updates which come months at a time. Instead, they want to keep it just a little classified so the suspension may be everlasting.

BUT I also think this situation is slowly changing day by day. Slowly but gently going in the right direction (towards better transparency) without abruptly doing something that may cause unexpected consequences is I think what the developers are going for. A safer path.

AND they are doing it right.

[queen ember]

@limber hull why ❌ on my suggestion just curious as I don’t see anything necessarily wrong with it

[limber hull]

First of all, they literally already spend time fleshing out creatures regardless of update, secondly, stopping after EVERY update to add 2-3 creatures just makes an already slow devtime even slower, third of all, they already have plans to drop animals (other than troo) between now and U9

[somber plank]

dead bodies are gletching the server so hard.. when theres couple of them specially near a river the fps gets down to nearly zero its unplayable

[urban flax]

@blissful gyro You say beipi sounds like a laser toy... just like irl crocs then ?

[blissful gyro]

no? they hiss and have a low rumbling sound do they not?

[limber hull]

have you heard baby irl crocs

they literally sound like laser toys

[cunning anvil]

what is natural? what is even nature? Is it defined by current roster of fauna here on earth 2022? Or is it defined by the collective existence? Or if we shall define the nature of an age long gone, must it be defined by the fauna of that exact age?

[blissful gyro]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZk6-Bew_hE
sounds natural enough to me

whereas this is what i hear from beipi sounds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzHhn2WtwYU

[limber hull]

Would it be more natural if it sounded like a chainsaw?

[blissful gyro]

no

[limber hull]

Damn

[cunning anvil]

a car alarm would do the trick

[limber hull]

Because there's a bird in nature can do that

[blissful gyro]

i don't understand your thinking here? i never made any suggestion to make it sound less natural?

[limber hull]

https://youtu.be/C0ZffIh0-NA

[blissful gyro]

lyrebirds mimic sounds of almost anything, dude

you're arguing in bad faith

[limber hull]

And yet beipi can't sound how it does

We have a real animal that can literally sound like a whole-ass construction site

Natural sounds don't exist, animals sound however the hell they wanna sound

[cunning anvil]

Thats a good point, theres our ptera that sounds like bass boosted demon scream

[blissful gyro]

it doesn't produce those sounds naturally, it's mimicing them. It needs to hear those sounds in order to mimic them

lyrebirds aren't out there inventing sounds like that out of thin air

[limber hull]

Also, how about a real animal that naturally sounds like a laser gun?
https://youtu.be/ZRmlsRaE7pA

No mimicry required

[cunning anvil]

How about a DINOSAUR that lived MILLIONS of years ago which we do not know for certainly how it sounds like, and beyond all how NATURAL it is?

[uneven mist]

Many birds today sounds unatural and ugly like like american bittern and capuchinbird so i dont see the problem if beipi also sounds wierd and unatural

[cunning anvil]

Yep, I mean, common sense

I can close my eyes and imagine a biological transformer jumping out of hell when I hear adult pteras.. When you associate a sound with something in your head like a laser gun or some shi, it becomes real

[limber hull]

Or how about a bird that naturally sounds like you're tuning a radio, despite not at all mimicking such a sound?
https://youtu.be/tEDfmDnxeLI

God damn it's almost like natural sounds are a bullshit concept. Why not let the small, birdlike animal in the dinosaur game have a distinct and bizarre call, because tons of irl animals do too? I'd much rather that to another generic roar or scream

[blissful gyro]

you want to argue philosophy and semantics over what constitutes "natural" while ignoring the intent behind my feedback, fine go ahead. I'm not interested in that line of thought.
I don't like the how the beipi sounds are, and i'd prefer them to be less harsh and more consistent with common animal sounds

[cunning anvil]

Fine, its all good for me

O p i n i o n s

btw Im a philosophy major pls dont judge me about that lol

In my opinion what constitutes natural is an important aspect especially in a dinosaur game which aims immersiveness above almost all else

[urban flax]

Actually beipi sounds are fine for an animal that's supposed to vocalize underwater as well as in the air
A mix of booming, guttural and bird-like sounds

[limber hull]

I consider diversity natural

Animals want to sound VERY distinct most of the time

In order to attract their own kind

[urban flax]

Having each dinosaur having easily recognizable calls is also better for gameplay

[limber hull]

This is also true, beipi would have a huge lung capacity, so a loud and shrill call would not be out of character for it

[uneven mist]

Some animals i feel like shouldn’t have a generic roar but something else like dilos and utahs broadcast

[cunning anvil]

My first thought on beipi calls was that "holy sh its TOO loud and ear rippingly annoying for its size wtf" but then I thought about how loud even the smallest birds can be irl. so..

[cunning anvil]

Yep, 100% agree on that

[limber hull]

okay but here's the thing

jumpscare beipi can now be a strat

thus making it the perfect animal for dickweeds who just want to scare people with a loud scream from nowhere

(aka me)

[cunning anvil]

[limber hull]

honestly seeing what beipi is going to be like through phase two just makes me want the little bastard even more

[urban flax]

Yes I just realized it
These sounds could really work for jumpscaring people, because they all start out with some sort of roar

An instant roar

[limber hull]

and i know that the whole "extra small" tier is extremely controversial because people hate the idea of playing small animals, but I'll probably end up maining the whole-ass tier

[cunning anvil]

Because there arent enough "other" small creatures yet

For adequate competition etc.

I mean what can beipi rival? Hypsi, ptera, dryo (???), maybe a pack against a single utah (????????)

[limber hull]

Legacy had all of the extra small tier be AI/sandbox only and I found that lame

Because one thing I notice about smalls is that what they lack in size and combat, they make up for in mechanic diversity

[cunning anvil]

Btw its kinda off topic but literally what can beipi rival when its out?

[urban flax]

I think beipi can handle fighting against things much larger than itself
A utah would want to pounce a beipi, otherwise it wouldn't get out of the fight unscathed

[uneven mist]

Smal deinos and juvi carnis

Prob a big utah but idk

[cunning anvil]

I think it cannot kill deinos bigger than 5% tho lol

[cunning anvil]

yeah maybe

The claws are big..

[urban flax]

Deinos aren't really fighters
Since once cannot drown a beipi, an adult beipi may very well be able to beat a larg deino (not 100% ofc) in a duel

[limber hull]

Troodon out here rocking NV, venom, call mimicry and pack-based synergies
Hypsi out here rocking blinding, climbing, arboreal nests and mid-air momentum control
Beipi out here rocking super fast swimming, powerful claws, an underwater cling move and omnivore status.

Extra smalls get the most shit to do out of the others because they're smaller and thus need them to survive

[urban flax]

Yes, people seem to think packing small critters with abilities is wrong because big animals don't get as much

[cunning anvil]

I really like playing small dinos if they actually have useful and fun, unique mechanics.. and looks good

[urban flax]

But they don't realize being big is an ability in itself, dealing high damage is an ability, etc...

[limber hull]

If hypsi gets a billion different colour choices in U5, along with growth and arboreal nesting (and maybe climbing please???), instantly hopping over

[cunning anvil]

Yea imagine the immersion of that

Im really hyped that the game is really getting more immersive day by day, and not arcade

[urban flax]

Yeah despite what people say, the game is really improving

[cyan flame]

I don't know, I don't think that's how abiltiies work. And in any case, that's a rather boring outlook, when it'd be more fun for every critter to be able to do fun stuff.

[urban flax]

I don't get what you mean
A lot of people count abilities on playables like to point out that smalls are favored, like comparing troodon's venom, NV and mimicry to Utah and the fact it only has pounce. But they don't mention that utah has a lot of health (compared to troodon), high damage, high bleed and high speed. These are as valuables as abilities as venom or good nightvision would be.

[cyan flame]

I guess I make a distinction between stats and abilities. And sure, I didn't say they wouldn't matter or anything, just that I think arguing that "it has good stats, thus no fun mechanic" is a bad and boring approach. See stego, all stats, nothing actually interesting about it. Meanwhile deino at least has lunge, even if it also has stats.

[signal beacon]

Stego simply needs climbing obviously

[cunning anvil]

I dont think its the difference between stats/abilities but the difference between actions/abilities

[urban flax]

I didn't say large playables don't get to have interesting abilities. But balance-wise, strength alone is an ability in itself because it allows you to do a lot of things that creatures without that can't do

[cyan flame]

Yes clearly, that makes perfect sense! :p

[cyan flame]

Possible, but abilities tend to imply actions. But that could be just nitpicking words.

[signal beacon]

I'm personally fine with larger animals relying more on stats with some unique combat flair.
Back in legacy the only thing that existed was stats so it was so obvious what the better pick was

[cyan flame]

Eh, not sure I quite agree. But as long as every playable is well designed, it's all good. But I'm not sure the approach of "small thus lots of abilities" is all that good. There's also the risk of overloading the critter with stuff.

[urban flax]

I think everything at least deserves one or two special abilities (including special attacks) so everything is entertaining to play in its own way
I don't understand people who say apexes should only be able to bite

[cunning anvil]

I mean carno has literally no "ability" beyond "go faster and hit harder" but everyone plays it because its actually fun. I dont think that outlook is boring.

[urban flax]

I mean, it's kinda that way irl and it's how small animals survive.

And gameplay-wise, it compensates for not being able to fight and, in some cases, not run either.

[cunning anvil]

agree actually. okay lets agree on it not being "small thus lots of abilities" BUT "small thus better immersive aspects"

[signal beacon]

That's why I specified combat flair. Things like a charge bite for rex, maybe grapple for spino, giga fucking off because I cant think of an ability on the spot, that kind of stuff

[cyan flame]

And yet lots of people seem to think carno should take more than just that. And I would be inclined to agree, carno isn't that fun, it's just overall good. Most people don't play carno cause it's so fun, but because it's so good.

[urban flax]

I think I had an old document here I wrote ability ideas for apexes, but I don't remember the one for giga
Let me try to find it

[cyan flame]

Yeah, pretty much. I think I agree with Necro here, I just look at stego and feel somewhat sad, so it concerns me when it sounded like "eh, stats compensate for good/fun design" a bit :p

[signal beacon]

I still want to know why the fuck giga and acro are in the same game

[urban flax]

Found them

Rex : LMB is a slow but extremely powerful bite, maybe the highest damage output in the game, with an especially long recovery time. It is fast enough to surprise enemies with a quick attack, but the recovery time leaves you open for counterattacks in case you miss. Alt-LMB is a turning bite like most carnivores have, faster but with a lower damage output than the regular bite. Its other attacks are more complex. RMB while standing still/trotting is a kick/pin. If a small enough target is hit, it is pinned to the ground and rex bites it to death, dealing a lot of damage and bleed at the cost of its own stamina. Bigger targets can be pinned down if they're already on the ground (example: stunned). RMB while sprinting is a charging headbutt that deals low damage but can knock over most things, maybe even another rex. Alt-RMB is, in every case, a slow turning headbutt, less powerful than the sprinting one but can still knock over annoying little things.

Giga : LMB is a bite that deals moderate damage (for an apex) but high bleed. Alt-LMB is a turning bite too, but as opposed to Rex’s Alt-bite, it is slower but deals more damage than the regular bite. RMB for Giga is a lunge-type attack. It rushes forward and grapples its opponent in its jaws, immobilizing it (is*f it is small enough) and thrashing around, dealing very high bleed damage but low raw damage. Alt-RMB is the same, but turning (as always with alt-attacks). It also costs more stamina than the regular one, but has a much higher range.

Spino : Spino is the most defensive of the trio. Its LMB is a rather weak bite, more useful for catching fish or small prey than fighting other apexes. Alt-LMB is a claw swipe that deals faily high damage and bleed and can be chained quickly, but costs some stamina. Chaining claw swipes forces spino to stand in one place, but allows it to do the highest dps of the apex trio. Rmb is a body check, that makes spino go forward a little bit, deal some damage and knock opponents over using its sheer body mass. Alt-RMB is a tail-slap that makes it turn its back to its opponent and can stun it depending on its size, and allows spino to take a quick escape if it needs to.

[uneven mist]

Wall

[cunning anvil]

Imo its not fun solely, its fun because its good because it has good abilities like being fast af and having huge biteforce but doesnt have much actions

and that is what makes its gameplay style so different and unique, like any other dinosaur

btw I dont find it fun, it doesnt fit my playstyle

[urban flax]

I wasn't really inspired for Giga, I must admit

[urban flax]

Thanks

[cyan flame]

Eh, I think we might not agree entirely there then. Besides, it does have charge, meh as that ability is. But carno could also use a bit more than what it currently has probably. But it might just be that the critter as a whole has to be well designed to be fun, and so far, only really teno is well done I'd say. Most of the others are lacking in some manner.

And teno doesn't have any fancy ability, just a good set of attacks and movement and all. So there is that.

[urban flax]

Teno has very high swimming speed, turning it into an almost semi-aquatic

I would consider that somewhat an ability
Not as fun as climbing trees for sure, but that's still an additional traversal method that most other playables don't have access to

[cyan flame]

Eh, I suppose. Though I have to point out that I don't see tenos using that much. But that might be due to other reasons.

If it was more of a part of their "daily life" I'd count it

[urban flax]

That might be due to the fact everyone is still traumatized by having every deep water infested with deinos, and you never actually need to cross water either

And tenos have a better chance at fighting off any opponent rather than running away from them

The only thing teno can't fight are deinos, and trying to escape them by water is a terrible idea, and stegos, which tenos can outrun on land anyways
So you're never really incentivized to go into water

[signal beacon]

I recently learned that carno can wade faster than teno...

W h y

[cunning anvil]

when you are small, because you cannot crouch and hide tracks, when a faster carnivore spots you, jump into river, and boom massive advantage

[urban flax]

But if there was something like, say, allo or alberto, tenos might stick a little more to the waterways in order to secure an escape route.

[cyan flame]

Fair, but in most cases, if you're small, and get spotted, you won't make it to water in time :p

[cunning anvil]

Thats why you need to be near rivers as teno to have that adv but yeah, youre smol and slow so most of the time you die (naturally)

[cyan flame]

Would work wonders, if food was also near :p

But that's a whole other issue

[signal beacon]

Honestly I feel like juvie viability should be prioritized

[uneven mist]

Potatoes are near rivers

[cyan flame]

They are, but you also need more stuff :p

But yeah, diets are what they are, at least for now

[limber hull]

See, stego doesn't NEED any fancy mechanics though. It's simply well designed to perform its tasks of hitting shit with a big tail until the thing dies. Its raw brawn and strength make up for other areas. That's kind of how nature works, you don't NEED hefty defensive specialisation like climbing and whatnot if you've already got a simple gameplan that works exceptionally well

Its size and power are its two primary defensive factors, it doesn't need more than that for continued survival

[cyan flame]

Yes and it also makes for a boring and not very engaging playable, especially in combat. Sure, it doesn't need to climb or something fancy like that obviously, but compare stego vs stego to teno vs teno, or something else. My main point is that just stats do not neccesarily make for a fun playable, and that thinking or saying "all x needs is just big damage and health" is bad.

Deino vs deino also suffers from not being all that engaging. You're kind of missing the point here, just giving stats do not equate to a well designed playable. As such, mechanics, abilities, or otherwise "more" to an animal, isn't a bad thing.

Since at the end of the day, this is a game, and while you're probably not wrong on how it works in nature, in nature most critters also do not want to fight unless given no other option. Not exactly how it goes in this game, unless you're on a really good realism server. As such, because people do enjoy fighting, and keep saying it's an important part of the game and all, (not neccesarily fighting, but engaging another player), then it should be taken into account.

[limber hull]

not every animal needs to sport a wide diversity of combat mechanics. Stego is primarily an animal for people who don't WANT to think about combat too heavily and just wanna live life as a big herbivore. If you decide to fight, stego will fight. If you decide not, stego will not. Not every animal needs to be complex to be valid as a playable

[cyan flame]

See, I disagree with that kind of statements. No playable should just be "don't think about it", that's just not good or fun game design. Maybe that's enough for you, but it's not for me. I do think every playable need to have plenty to it so it's fun all around, both in combat and outside of it. And there's obviously different levels of complexity, so it's not like you can't have it still be rather simple, but well made.

Maybe that could go for the large sauropods that might be more diffcult to do much with, and that can actually argue for "I'm just too big for you to do anything to, so I won't even care", but that's very much for those extremely large critters where size is indeed a defense.

[limber hull]

literally there are some animals in this game designed to be non-combative

i dont see how or why that is an issue

some people don't want to think about or engage in combat

[cyan flame]

Yes, non-combative, in the sense of running rather than fighting, is fine, but that doesn't mean they also can't have fun stuff and so on, you can most likely do something fun with even a "pure" runner in some ways.

No, you don't see it as an issue, but I do. I think everything in the game should be fun, and to me, that does mean some actual engagement in what you do.

It's fine if you think running in a straight line is engaging enough, or just spamming a bite is plenty fun, but I don't agree obviously.

Teno is very well designed, it's fun to play as, fun to fight as, and considering it can go swimming, could be fun to run away as too if that was a bit more common. And teno vs teno is really fun at that, so the mirror match also works out well. And I can't see why not every playable can be as well designed and fun/interesting to play as, be it via stats, mechanics, abilities, or something else.

[limber hull]

i literally dont know how you even expect to add complexity to an animal which can be summarised as "big dumb plant eater with a very sharp tail"

anky will likely be extremely similar to stego in this regard, to an even greater degre

it walks around, vibes on its own, eats plants, cracks the skeleton of anything that chooses to fight it

it doesn't seek, nor does it engage in, highly engaging fights. It walks around, eats plants, and injures/kills things with a single tail swipe and keeps going until its safe or the thing is dead

[cyan flame]

And you're happy with that. Meanwhile, I am not. I would add more mobility options, more different attacks, maybe give anky something it can do concerning the soft underbelly, and so on. Not like the only thing these animals can do is stand still and wiggle their ass you know.

Complexity does not have to mean things like a pounce or ram. Again, look at teno. Perfect example. Only normal attacks, yet so much fun.

[limber hull]

what mobility options can you give to an anky

[cyan flame]

Sideways movement, attacks while moving, possibly some sort of shoulder check in front. Not like you can't do something, especially considering the anky we have.

[limber hull]

also from what i know, the only thing concerning its soft underbelly will be a weakspot for things to hit

[cyan flame]

Meanwhile I think giving it an ability to "hunker down" would work there, or something like that. Point is, I'm thinking much more push/pull and pressure in fights, or even escapes. You seem to not take those things into account.

Again, teno is well made. So let's go from there.

[limber hull]

it'd be fine if an anky can attack while moving, it's not exactly like an anky is going to outrun any of its predators. I just don't see reasons to have anky do shit like a shoulder check with its extremely heavy and hard-to-move body, nor doing some wacky crab shit walking side to side

[cyan flame]

You don't see the reason because you think "dumb" combat is fine. I.. don't know how to make this clearer for you.

[limber hull]

i cant see an anky shoulder-checking or side-walking without looking silly

[cyan flame]

I see the reason because to me it gives more options, fighting and even outside perhaps, and it just makes the playable more interesting and fun.

Also with how our anky looks, I'm sure it could actually run :p

[limber hull]

idk, im the kind of person who enjoys complexity, but also finds beauty in simplicity. I'm a game designer by trade and education, and slapping on extra combat mechanics or movement mechanics to animals that can work perfectly fine without just doesn't seem necessary. If an animal works perfectly fine as a simple creature with simple survival strategies, so be it, not every animal in nature works the same amount to survive. Some just have different challenges

Stego, for example, is by no means hard to fight with. However, it is difficult to grow and survive, given its lack of juvi niche that helps them properly defend themselves

[cyan flame]

But it doesn't work "perfectly fine" without, if it is boring. Which it is to me. And you're kind of.. saying that no challenge is good. Or "nothing to it" is good. And yeah, I know you are, but that.. doesn't mean much.

You're just saying it works perfectly fine because you only look at "can it survive" without taking fun or engagement into account.

[limber hull]

Having every animal's worth boil down to how well it performs in combat seems silly and shortsighted to me. There's so much more to consider in the department of survival

[cyan flame]

And being simple is fine, but simple is not the same as being boring or "dumb".

And I did not at any point say it had to only go for combat, did I?

I'm saying that a playable should be fun and well designed, while you're saying "basic design" is good enough. And that's all there is to it, because to me that "basic design" isn't good enough and not fun.

[icy lion]

@grim marten Different devs work on different things. The dev that makes furniture and buildings does not impact the speed of updates, because that's all he works on.

2 dinos per month was an ideal scenario for after mechanics were finished, and was also estimated before evrima even released. There were no "promises" there

The devs did take a break over the holidays, but whether or not they want/need more time off is their decision. Kissen talked about how hard it was to get the devs to stop working over their time off, lol

[limber hull]

then by all means, you can not play the animals

[cyan flame]

Considering mirror matches can be a thing too, combat is still part of it. But if you think stego vs stego, deino vs deino, is fun and engaging, then well, that's good for you I guess.

[limber hull]

i dont even play stego, i cant really find the fun in it, but i know for a fact some people legitimately like stego in all its simplicity

[cyan flame]

Ah yes, don't play something, instead of making it better.

[limber hull]

its not making it better by making it further suit your tastes

[cyan flame]

Now you're just being silly. And honestly, find me one person who thinks stego vs stego is more fun than teno vs teno. Or one person that thinks teno vs utahs is less engaging and fun than stego vs utahs. (assuming nothing bugs out of course).

[limber hull]

again, i dont play stego, i also dont like the simplicity, but i respect it as a playstyle other people do like, and acknowledge that simple animals are required to better help players adapt to the systems of the game

[cyan flame]

But it's not. Because the playable is still what it is, and functions in it's own way. That does not equate to making it better as a playable.

Ah yes, an apex should be a simple animal that players should learn with. Makes sense.. :p

[limber hull]

for example, carno. I don't really care for carno, but it being a creature that runs and bites is fine

[cyan flame]

You do realize you can have different kinds of playables, with different "tastes", and still make them all well designed and interesting playables?

[limber hull]

its simple in controls yet is difficult to grow

also idk what the fuck mirror matches have to do with anything btw

[cyan flame]

Eh, not sure I agree there. Not sure what you mean with simple controls anyway, none of the playables are difficult to control...

[limber hull]

mirror matches almost always universally suck in the isle so its a rather moot point

[cyan flame]

Because mirror matches should be a thing, such as competition

Yes and you're fine with settling for that

Meanwhile, I am not

[limber hull]

i legit never said that but sure

i at no point recall saying mirror matches should be awful but whatever

[cyan flame]

Well you're arguing against making things better and more interesting due to "it's fine to be simple" and then say "mirror matches almost alway suck". As if.. that is all there is to it.

If we can agree that mirror matches suck, then can we also agree that this is bad and should be fixed?

I bring up mirror matches because competition should be a thing

This mean at some point, you might have to kick that other guy out

[limber hull]

its almost as if its more than just complexity that plays a part, but the base design of the kit. Pachy is surprisingly complex of an animal. Still has garbage mirror matches. Utah is an animal built around stamina management, bleed control and exhaustion. Awful, awful mirror matches

[cyan flame]

At that point, I believe it should be fun and engaging to do so, be it chasing them out, or beating them until they stop moving, or whatever

To be fair, utah pin makes a bit of an issue of it's own there :p

Though I would argue utah vs utah or pachy vs pachy is more fun than deino vs deino or stego vs stego.

So there's still degrees, and thus things to work with/on.

[limber hull]

Deino v deino and stego and stego are dogwater and i literally do not know how you'd improve them without making them something utterly bizarre

[cyan flame]

And yeah sure, it's not just complexity, but then that's just more stuff to work with. Base design and kit is also part of it, so also something to look at.

Well, maybe it's bizarre to you but not to me. To be fair, that's a bit subjective. You think sideways movement is weird, I think it could look perfectly fine.

But if you can agree that there are circumstances that are indeed dogwater, then we should work on those things. Not disregard it by saying "it'd just be bizarre" or "it's fine to be simple", when it can be made better.

Besides, it's the Isle, we have strains, a JP raptor, and so on. I don't think some extra.. modifications are that out there honestly.

Our anky is already.. a bit strange, to say the least. So you know, there's precedent for things being less than natural at times.

[limber hull]

like idk how the fuck you're going to make a stego 1v1 anything more than a tailswing fest because it does ludicrous damage and thus is legit just the best move

[cyan flame]

Sideways movement. Attacks while moving. Different swings with different reach and power and stam drain. Perhaps another attack or two. Work with it, in simple terms. Again, look at teno. Take that, but slower due to bigger critter. Or at least start there and try things out, consider things. Just like how deino could have a mouth block, so you can't just facetank. Maybe additional movement option in water, maybe work with the speed of the bites so there's more delay between them, giving more choice in trying to move around without just having the other deino go "om nom nom" on your ass.

... I don't know what else you want, there are obviously different things that can be done, with stats, mechanics, complexity, base design and so on. Not like current version is the be all, end all, and could not have been done in any different manner what so ever.

[limber hull]

if everything in the game just ends up moving like a crab in combat, we'll just have a repeat of animals in legacy crouching before every fight. You maybe could give stego a moving sweep attack that covers its ass, but idk how you'd manage make the action of "hitting shit with your tail" have several different anims that are visually distinct enough to allow reaction

[cyan flame]

We already have different "angles", you could work with them, make them separate attacks, and so on. Some sort of "power jab", another "fast sweep" and so on. And did I say everything needs to move like that? You're asking me for examples, then you complain when I tell you things that could be done. And no, I don't think it'd be similar to crouch due to that giving you an actual boost, not just a movement option. It'd be no more different than normal movement. And this would apply to those things that don't just.. dance around like teno does.

[grim marten]

I understand that but I don't think many people aren't looking forwards to announcements that deal with chairs and doors, it doesn't really excite anyone from what I know.

The most hype is from the Dinosaurs themselves. Thats why people bought the game. For dinos-

[cyan flame]

Look, there are things that could be worked on, simple as that. If you like or dislike said thing, it's on you. But that does not change that we could work things and make them different than what they currently are. As for your "crab" worries, I'll go talk to some PoT people, since they have that movement there, and see if it really turns out as bad as you seem to think.

[limber hull]

I've looked at that PoT combat, it looks ridiculous

[cyan flame]

See, you think so. I'm not sure I agree. Last I played, it looked fine.

[limber hull]

I literally hate how PoT combat both looks and plays

[lapis swallow]

Side steps are a bad option

[cyan flame]

Meanwhile, I think it might have a good few points it does better than the Isle.

Including movement

[limber hull]

besides animal diversity, i rarely see any superior points

[cyan flame]

Sidesteps/rearstep allows you to actually control a fight better.

But I guess that's not anything good in your opinion

[lapis swallow]

Imagine how exciting it would be to hunt as an allosaur and your hunt will be 15 minutes of crab combat against a stego

[cyan flame]

As opposed to it turning in a circle like a turrent

[limber hull]

and also would require you to rework the whole combat system just to account for it, so no, i wouldn't like it

[cyan flame]

Yes, I would much prefer if the stego can do some push and pull

[grim marten]

Stego has shit turn tho-

[cyan flame]

Well, maybe we should have thought about stuff a bit earlier. Still, I'm sure something could be done. But you can't be against something due to requiring a rework, that's not the same as disliking it because you think it looks stupid or something.

[limber hull]

I like it when things don't look stupid and ugly. It's why I hate BoB

[lapis swallow]

But not many people want side steps in the game

And it would look derpy

[cyan flame]

You can say it looks stupid, or bad, and fair enough, if that's how you think. I clearly disagree. I want more options in combat, not less.

[grim marten]

Side step should be used on smaller carnies and have a cooldown limit tbh

To avoid abuse

[cyan flame]

It would look just fine. And sure, maybe not many people want it. But that won't change that it does give more options and would make it better. PoT, despite what everyone seems to believe, does do some things right.

[limber hull]

You know that you can make an engaging combat system by reducing your players options, right? It's all about how you utilise the limited options a player has

[cyan flame]

No, no I don't think so. But you're free to prove me wrong, by showing a good combat system that is engaging and has less options.

[lapis swallow]

A utah cant attack headon so he uses its pounce and mobility

[limber hull]

You can give someone 15 unique options in a fight and it can very easily hurt the experience more than it helps

[cyan flame]

Of course, you can overdo it. But you can also underdo it, I have no doubt. And adding movement is hardly overdoing it.

[lapis swallow]

Minecraft

[cyan flame]

I'll have to go take a look, I was unaware it even had combat :p

Makes me curious what kind of movement options there are there, I take it you can only run straight forwards then?

[lapis swallow]

Its simple and can be taken to the extremes with items but the basic stuff is very simple

[limber hull]

Multiversus is a platform fighter, like Super Smash Bros. However, unlike Smash, it lacks both blocks and grabs, which are very important mechanics in Smash. Despite this removal of both defensive and offensive options, the game remains as, if not more, engaging than its counterpart. While not a dinosaur game, it still clearly shows that, despite having arguably less mechanics, it still manages to utilise limited tools.

[cyan flame]

I'll take a look when it's out. But does it lack movement options. Does it lack other options, or is it just a specific attack that's missing?

[lapis swallow]

Pokemon

Thats a simple mechanic and it is engaging

[cyan flame]

Eh.. not sure what I'm supposed to find there? Do you mean that the whole combat is simple or?

[limber hull]

It does not lack movement options. I don't know why that would be relevant when it is very well known that grabs and blocks in Smash can have unique animation times and properties that make them distinct to a character's kit

[lapis swallow]

The combat is simple

[cyan flame]

Because my point was movement, wasn't it? Did I at any point say any specific attack?

You're arguing that less mechanics would be as engaging as more, and I'm asking if the games then lack said mechanics that would make a difference

[limber hull]

... yes?

[lapis swallow]

And sidesteps would just look weird

Lets be honest

[cyan flame]

I don't think it looks that weird, but again, maybe PoT just does it better :p

[cyan flame]

So you're comparing a specific kit, such as a pounce, to a game that then would not have a pounce. Like legacy vs Evrima then?

[limber hull]

i guess, except EVRIMA clearly does combat better than Legacy

[cyan flame]

You're saying less mechancis can make it as good, if not better. Well then legacy would be as fine as Evrima, no?

[limber hull]

okay i watched some vids and yes the sidestep looks really dumb holy shit lmao

[cyan flame]

Eh.. in some cases, but overall, I'm not impressed honestly

Eh, guess that's personal opinion then. I think it looks fine enough.

[limber hull]

also it looks utterly useless?

[cyan flame]

But then I also prioritize mechanics over "graphics"

[limber hull]

he walks like a few centimetres to the left with a lengthy animation

[cyan flame]

Okay, I'll use the example I know someone else had. If you could move backwards, you could as deno, move away from another deino, without showing your rear and take damage. Combine that with a mouth block, and see, now you have more options in combat.

[limber hull]

i prefer games that can balance immersion with mechanics, rather than sacrificing one to get the other (BoB)

[cyan flame]

Oh yeah, BoB is.. a bit overdone. But I honestly think PoT is immersive enough.

[lapis swallow]

No

[cyan flame]

Yes. But again, subjective opinion.

[limber hull]

nah, that MMO shit and ridiculous cooldown times for your "special abilities" absolutely ruins any sense of immersion I might have

[lapis swallow]

A mechanic should be added if it has good looks

[cyan flame]

No. I prefer gameplay over visuals. You can of course take the other option, but I will disagree :p

[limber hull]

and if it's actually mechanically necessary and/or valuable to the game as a whole

[cyan flame]

I was thinking lookswise, more than cooldown. But like, movement, attacks, critters, map, it looks immersive enough to me.

[cyan flame]

Which my ideas have, even if you don't think so. :p

[limber hull]

but it isn't mechanically necessary for the animals to move sideways or backwards

[lapis swallow]

Yes

[cyan flame]

It is if you want more interesting combat. I gave you the deino example.

[limber hull]

you can design a combat system without and it can still work

[cyan flame]

Oh sure, it can still work. And I guess we could do something else that'd allow for things like that example to happen.

But we're certainly not there yet

[lapis swallow]

But a mechanic that would be needed if you are standing still that you jump in the direction you are looking

[cyan flame]

So how do you design your system then to make it possible to "back away" from something else without showing your vunerable side?

[cyan flame]

Why is it needed?

[limber hull]

and honestly, if you had it be a special ability for some animals, it could work. Having an animal that can move backwards, especially something that mainly likes to attack the front like trike, could be fine, I just don't see the need for animals like teno, stego or animals with back-facing attacks to be moving backwards

[cyan flame]

To be fair, I used deino as an example, not stego or teno.

And you're right, I'd be fine with it being for only some critters

[lapis swallow]

Many people could unstuck themselfes with it and to climb rocks as a utah/pachy/dryo

[cyan flame]

I did say teno did not need to walk sideways, but stego could

But again, my point for movement is that it allows for more options in combat, more choice in how you position yourself vs the opponent and so on

If deinos could move backwards, they could also lunge and then you know, go back into water like that

Again, PoT offers options, that's why they have it right. Meanwhile you're focused on how it "looks" and so on, which is secondary to gameplay, that's basic.

Good gameplay can carry bad graphics. Good graphics can not carry bad gameplay.

[limber hull]

im still on the side of some animals being complex combatants (teno, pachy) and some being simple (stego, carno). Same as some animals will have tough survival conditions (stego, teno) and some will find ways to live safely and easily (ptera, deino)

[cyan flame]

Thing is, simple and complex is fine. I just want the "baseline" simple to be a bit more complex.

And yeah, some do live too safe and easily :p

Another thing I disagree with, because if it's a hardcore survival game, then everything should struggle. Of course some things will struggle more than others, but nothing should have it "easy".

Same thing with simple vs complex combatants. Some are obviously more so, but none of them should be "mindless".

[limber hull]

and stego isnt mindless, neither carno. they're just not as complex as other animals. They still got to think about when to time and react with their attacks

[cyan flame]

Clearly we have different criteria here. You're right, but that's.. that goes for every playable.

And if that's the baseline, then yes, I want more.

[icy lion]

@barren zephyr https://trello.com/c/K6MSKCmH/32-troodon

Trello

Troodon

This nimble critter, while not particularly dangerous on it's own, can become quite problematic for a wide variety of creatures when operating in a coordinated group through the use of their venomous bite. Keep your wits about you. Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear. This creature is known to mimic certain noises.

Labels

Playable, In Development, Carnivore

[cyan flame]

? xD

[icy lion]

#phase-three-requests

[cyan flame]

Oh, okay!

[plush ore]

What would the problem be whit the option to save multiple dinos on a server? I saw similar suggestions get down voted.

[uneven mist]

Revenge killing

[limber hull]

@signal beacon id rather decrease carno's bleed output than increase its bleed damage

[signal beacon]

I never said to increase its bleed damage. I said to make it more vulnerable to bleed

Or is that what you mean by bleed damage?

[limber hull]

yea

badly worded, my bad

[signal beacon]

Ah, well it definitely needs less bleed output

What about the rest if the suggestion?

[limber hull]

i got no problems with it

idk what you'd replace carno with for nutrients tho

[signal beacon]

Maybe like juvie stegos or juvie deinos. Idk our roster is too small for that damed system

[limber hull]

if they plan on adding galli anytime soon, def that one lmao

[signal beacon]

Honestly carnivore diets need a whole overhaul

They are so flawed in every way

[jagged jewel]

honestly if a teno can stand its ground and hold carnos still for a while it can get to quite the low levels of bleed, which makes regenning stam a bit harder

[cyan flame]

0-25%, you get everything from all food. 25-50%, you replace one nutrient with whatever your grown is (the easiest one to get preferably) while still getting the other two from everything else. 50-75%, you replace another one, while still having one "free" item. 75%+, you can only get nutris from your chosen prey items.

[signal beacon]

I just dont like the shopping list aspect of the diets. Carnivores should be able to eat almost any kind of meat, although that would require them to have a whole other way of getting diets buffs because carnivore's with eternal juvie diets sounds... bad

[cyan flame]

Fair enough. Diets in general could be done better. But the whole carni 50% free food + refill needs some work too.

[jagged jewel]

i think only a few should have that type of diet, the more specialised ones such as possibly velo

[signal beacon]

@lapis swallow I'd rather remove the wall entirely. Giving carno access to it would just make those swamp wall mixpacks include carnos. Makeing it wider doesn't solve the main problem with it. It is far to defendable

[lapis swallow]

Let the swamp flood into the valley

[signal beacon]

Honestly that could be very cool

A super large swamp like that could actually become a place for more than 2 tenos

[lapis swallow]

Maybe a lake that would eventually become wetlands for the upcoming semiaquatics

With seagrass and stuff

[stark dust]

@thorny lynx I am with you

Tbh the sounds for evrima (especially pachy and beipi) are pretty shit yes ik a new sound designer is doing it but that doesn’t mean I can have an opinion on it

[white night]

@unreal ridge I agree with the hatchling's inability to fly but not with your last suggestion. You would be unable to direct a request to a specific player like you do with close calling so the invites would be directed to everyone. It would then require a long range 3 call in order for all the random players you've now invited to decline. Imagine how annoying it'd be to have the same player constantly 2 calling to the point you have to move away from your location to be out of range. Also broadcasting already acts as the long range call. On a realistic side, a dinosaur would probably not accept a mate that it hasn't seen or interacted with, simply because how does one deem it's suitability based on sound.

[limber hull]

hatchling fliers not being able to fly would be cool imho

[white night]

I think most hatchings are capable of flight straight after hatching but I've also heard that they required a few hours in order for the ligaments to become stronger before being capable of flight

I think in the isle, it'd be the most common cause of ptera death having hatchings flying off the ledge but not having enough stamina to get back in the nest

[rose meteor]

@tight lantern I'm so glad to see someone else bringing up a voting system for updates.

For those who downvoted the suggestion: like all interactive polls, they're tools to aid developer decisions, not dictate. Not everything super popular would or should necessarily be implemented--it's simply a way for the devs to see what their userbase is most interested in.

It's a feature used by many dev groups, to great success. There's quite literally no downside besides your usual moderation efforts.

[urban flax]

Yes but if people vote for something and devs don't respect it they're gonna complain even more

Also I don't think rhey need it at all. Devs seem to have a pretty clear idea of what they want to do with the next updates.

[hoary dawn]

ptera getting to 10% is like 5 minutes, i dont see the point in disabling flight for that short a time.

[limber hull]

5 minutes without flight for a ptera is a big deal

[hoary dawn]

how

you wont starve in that time

people would just spawn in and wait in a bush for 5 minutes

[urban flax]

You don't wait in a bush if you've been nested in

[hoary dawn]

yea if you get nested you get to wait in the comfort of a nest, where there's even less danger

[limber hull]

also you're forgetting that it'd be much longer for a hatchling @hoary dawn

since hatchling smaller than juvi and thus needs to reach juvi stage

[hoary dawn]

we already spawn in as hatchlings in the current build

[limber hull]

no we dont

hatchling is smaller than what we have now

we spawn as juvis

[hoary dawn]

was this said

[limber hull]

yes

[hoary dawn]

who

[limber hull]

i believe it was filipe

[hoary dawn]

found it, either way i doubt it would add much time to the overall growth

[limber hull]

it's a new growth stage

of course it'd add time

[hoary dawn]

not a significant amount

it'd be dumb if it did

[limber hull]

it'd be enough to be impactful to not fly for that long

[hoary dawn]

not if you're in a nest

you'd just sit there

[limber hull]

i dont see whats wrong with not being able to fly till 5%

[hoary dawn]

ptera growth is around an hour give or take, if the hatchling phase adds lets say 10 minutes (to be generous) it'd still only take 7 minutes to get to 10%, 7 minutes sitting still in a nest.

[hoary dawn]

i dont see what's good about it

seems like a useless thing to add

[limber hull]

its not like hatchlings should be flying around

[hoary dawn]

why not

[limber hull]

because they're hatchlings?

kinda defeats the point of nesting if your child is born and is immediately able to live independently

[hoary dawn]

i didn't realize the point of nesting was to trap players in afk mode for 10 minutes

[limber hull]

the whole thing with nesting is that hatchlings can't support themselves

they even have a begging animation for the hatchlings planned

[hoary dawn]

so instead make it so a hatchling cant skim fish, so it depends on its parents for food

[limber hull]

idk, i think it'd look dumb as hell for a newborn ptera to immediately take off within the first few seconds of life

[hoary dawn]

why tho, the filipe quote you referenced says that the hatchling will be the same model as the juvie, just smaller. it'd look just as natural as what we have now

just smaller

[limber hull]

because its newborn? also i dont think it was ever officially confirmed that hatchlings look the same as juvis

[hoary dawn]

im not much of a paleontologist, but what is wrong with a newborn pterosaur flying

[limber hull]

i literally do not see a need for ptera hatchlings to fly if they still need to beg parents for food

[hoary dawn]

and i do not see the need for them to not be able to fly if they still need to beg parents for food

[limber hull]

just let em sit on their nest and wait for food, like how every other animal will

[hoary dawn]

they can do that while still having flight

any hatchling can just run away if they want, the point of being nested is to have safety, and eventually perks

[limber hull]

but why would they

im pretty sure hatchlings will be mostly too slow to escape, going off legacy and their tiny little legs

[hoary dawn]

i wouldn't go off legacy in assuming anything about evrima, especially dinosaur speeds

everything in legacy was slow af in comparison

[limber hull]

again, newborn animals irl can barely even walk a lot of the time, having them sprinting and flying around like nothing seems awkward and silly as hell

[hoary dawn]

google says pterosaurs could fly within the first few minutes of their lives

[limber hull]

google says many things

[hoary dawn]

and so do quite a few seemingly reliable sources

[white night]

They should delay flight in order to encourage fresh hatchlings to remain in nest and beg for food as leaving the nest defeats the purpose of the nests if hatchings don't have enough stamina to return. Just because pteras can do that realistically, doesn't mean they should. This is also prevalent with the Deino and drinking, players need to leave the water and drink from the side lines whilst realistically they probably could drink whilst in the river. This is to encourage a specific behaviour to ensure the game is enjoyable for all.

[hoary dawn]

Deino's thirst doesn't go down while it's in water my guy

[white night]

If they were thirsty out of water, they should realistically be able to go straight back into the river and drink (not from the banks). Regardless, just because a feature/behaviour is realistic, that doesn't mean it's suitable for gameplay. Aspects are altered for to maintain balance between the
.

[ivory summit]

would definitely make more fun

[hoary dawn]

How is afking for 10 minutes fun

[white night]

True but there is no way for a hatching ptera to survive out of the nest unless it's lucky and finds a carcass. There is no guarantee the hatching is capable of making it back up in the nest and the player's egg has been wasted 1 minute into being hatched

[ivory summit]

yes

[white night]

You won't be afk as you are required to beg for food, I'm sure hatching hunger decreases quite rapidly so afking would result in death.

[ivory summit]

it should be to weak to even rip of pieces of meat out of carcasses

[hoary dawn]

Disabling flight adds nothing to that

[white night]

That's also true, hatching out of the egg could also require a lot of energy so it wouldn't have the stamina to fly let alone try and rip apart meat

Perhaps instead of disabling flight, have them hatch with no stamina perhaps and regen it at a much slower rate like a debuff for 5 minutes

[ivory summit]

maybe the devs will not even think about this mechanic who knows

[hoary dawn]

That would make more sense, though 5 minutes is too long

[elfin imp]

legacy pachy or evrima pachy

[uneven mist]

Evrima pachy. Legacy pachy is dogshit and weak

[elfin imp]

oof

das mah fav dino and im interestsd in playing the game soo i had to ask

but so like besides these apex's i think there called what are the strongst carni's

[uneven mist]

On evrima or legacy?

[elfin imp]

legacy

[uneven mist]

Utah(it can assride anything) rex and giga

[elfin imp]

oof

k ima go watch a vid

[tight lantern]

Thank you. It's a clean, organized, professional, and diplomatic way of handling and visualizing feedback and suggestions. I'm honestly surprised something like this hasn't been adopted already.

[urban flax]

@timid kindle Eat grass and die I guess ?

[timid kindle]

Well its herbi, its definitely not supoosed to hunt down otherdinos who are not threat, dont you think?

[rose meteor]

They'll complain regardless. A good dev group would explain why something won't be implemented, but even if they don't, it wouldn't change the amount of "complaining" you would have right now without a feedback system.

[urban flax]

https://tenor.com/view/beasts-of-bermuda-kaperoo-the-isle-path-of-titans-gif-23526654

That's my opinion

You can't balance something around being in a herd in the game either, because then it becomes unviable

[timid kindle]

and you think that zebra will hunt him down and kill him when he runs away? and it atatcked him just for fun? no, he threat zebra or its babies so it atatcked him but will stop after few seconds when he will get far enough

[urban flax]

You don't know herbivores well
They very well go out of their way to kill carnivores when they can
Just search "herbivore" in discord gif selector, you'll see what I mean
But I can't post them here because that would be a rulebreak

Also here's why making herbivores simply weaker than carnivores is a terrible idea
https://discordapp.com/channels/401464048610312193/778350260027129865/978875304632275004

[signal beacon]

You underestimate how much of an asshole herbivores can be

[timid kindle]

since my young age i was watching documents about wild life and dinos etc. SOmetimes there can be wierd moments but thats not what we have in game in game we have literaly herbivores acting as carnivores.

and its because its easy for them to do so, strengh wise and food wise, in realitz herbi food has less nutritions so they need to eat more adn spend less energy

we have nothing like that in game

[urban flax]

Documentaries are not a good source for knowing how animals behave, they select the information they give out
From my yougest age I've been living among animals, and I've always known to not approach an animal that you're not the owner of, whether they have babies or not. You never know when a ram might decide you had yout kneecaps for too long.

[timid kindle]

agree on that

but in game herbies are not atatcking coss you aproach them lol, they are looking actively for somethign to kill

[urban flax]

Herbivores in the game always eat high-quality food, grass doesn't feed them at all. And at that point if they gotta spend their entire time eating and doing nothing else that'd be very boring quickly

[urban flax]

Yep that's because they're being controlled by humans, and you're not gonna change that unless herbies are turned into AI only

[timid kindle]

i am not saying do nothing than eating, but fighting shoudl cost them something. Somethign more than carnivores, so they have to pick fights not look for them.

for herbies there must be some cost of fighting if you understand me

[urban flax]

No, because if so a herbivore that is bound to defend itself when a carnivore comes (like stego or teno) will be punished for doing so

[signal beacon]

Herbivores will pick unnecessary fights because unlike carnivores, herbivores dont need to be in peak condition to eat.

[urban flax]

All of their attacks already cost stam while carnivores can bite with 0 stam cost and deal decent damage, that is already a disadvantage herbivores have

[timid kindle]

well thats why they would have to save energy for such defence instead of waste it for chasing and killing babies lol

[limber hull]

eat grass and die my friend

[urban flax]

If they chase and kill a baby, that's one less threat to them later so it's not wasted

[swift dew]

i agree, but for both parties. right now, everything fights everything they possibly can and its bad

[urban flax]

Let's eat grass and die together then.

[signal beacon]

Buffalo will go out of their way to kill lion cubs

[timid kindle]

agree, but if he sees them and get opportunity, he will not be looking for them and hunt them across a kontinent

[swift dew]

imo, more cost to death and/or more benefits to surviving (elder perk), is needed to discourage uneccesary conflict. its a survival game, you aren't meant to be running in and murdering everything, as a herbivore or as a carnivore. but right now there isnt anything to discourage that behavior

[urban flax]

I'd say more beneifts for staying alive rather than more cost do death but yeah I agree

[swift dew]

but herbivore specific nerfs? absolutley not.

[signal beacon]

Rewards for surviving till death from age is far better than heavy punishment for death

Looseing all those hours of progress is punishment enough imo

[swift dew]

i really liked the idea of locking that specific dino for that server if you died for x amount of time, you could still be nested as that dino, join another server or pick another dino, but it would discourage death i feel

[urban flax]

I think that when you're actually trying to grow a dino, losing several hours of progress for a single mistake is already brutal enough

[swift dew]

maybe at increasing increments, so first death in x amount of time is nothing, second death in x amount of time is 10 mins, and then 30 etc

[timid kindle]

well that woudl make all this even more sevire, this herbi hunting baby carnivore....

[ashen elm]

I mostly agree but do think Stego should probably get taken down a notch. Right now, Stego players harass and bully everything. It should be scared of Dienosuchus, meanwhile it's jumping into water, swimming and biting which is ridiculous.

Honestly let Stego get even more damage from headshots and/or cut it's weight if it's swims in water so it can be drowned.

[timid kindle]

• bugs and lags which are 80% of tiem reason why i die

[swift dew]

what about animals where you aren't loosing several hours of progress, like if you are a juvi or a small animal. juvis right now are way too confident imo

ig that could be solved through benefits so nvm, but it might not, no way to tell with the community so well just have to see

[timid kindle]

well see this game has a lot of issues and i think some buffs and debuffs for proper behave could easilz fix it all

[urban flax]

Locking one select species won't be a solution to juvies coming back to finish a fight they died in once we get more playbales, they can change species and come back over and over
I don't know of a better solution yet but I'm sure there is one

[limber hull]

stego being prey to deino would be a really bad idea

[urban flax]

No, you don't balance a game to account for bugs. You fix the bugs, then if necessary, you balance things out. That's game development 101.

[ashen elm]

Your going to have to elaborate on that? Why shouldn't Stego be afraid when it's literally swimming in an area where it should be most vulnerable.

Because the opposite right now, is just letting them harass animals the same size as them, even in water.

[swift dew]

mechanic where you are easier to get yoinked by a deino when swimming or standing in deeper water so deinos can yoink stegos when they are doing stupid shit

[ashen elm]

Yes that would be good imo
Maybe not for sure a one-shot, if the Stego has enough stamina, but if it's spamming it's tail hits like an idiot at the edge of a river; it dies

[swift dew]

well yeah, pretty sure teno doesn't drown rn

[timid kindle]

what the hell are you tlaking about...

[urban flax]

this

[ashen elm]

Oh it doesn't? Hmm then yea. Let Stego get taken for being idiots pls.
People abuse the animal too much.

[timid kindle]

well why you talk about bugs? i dont talk about any bugs at all there

[urban flax]

Because most of the issues in the game originate from bugs

[timid kindle]

Smart and proper playing of each dino shoudl be rewarded and opposite should be punished with some debuf or something thats my opinion. If herbi hunts down babies over half of map, he should be than way eeasier target, if stego jump in water he should have hard time to get out if there are deinos. If carno kille everything what moves without any need to kill it, it should be punish for that somehow too.

[ashen elm]

Yes stamina management should be important for all animals

[urban flax]

I think people should be able to play the way they want, but be encouraged to play "the right way" instead of being punished for going out of their way. And herbs getting punished for killing a carni would still be a terrible idea imo. They're already very bad at it, they're mostly slower than carnivores and can't track things down anyway. So if a carni gets chased and killed by a herbivore, it's kinda their own fault.

[timid kindle]

Well imagine this, in real life if herbi gets too away from protection of its herd, he can be easy target for predators which can immidiately kill it. In game herbies are so strong that they can not onlz go away form herd, but thez can JUMP in the midle of predators solo, kill half of them and than slowly get back to herd... and doesnt matter if its big stego or small patchy.

[urban flax]

Videogame moment
You can't have something be only viable in a herd in this game

Also try telling a rhino or a moose to stay with its herd

[timid kindle]

i dont want that even, but there shoudl be some cost for herbies of acting stupid, now there is none. They dotn need herd, they dont need to care of stamina much, they have no lack of energy and food and they are so strong that they have no fear at all to go in fight with anything.

[urban flax]

But how is killing a potential future threat acting stupid ? If you act stupid in this game, you die. I think that's enough of a punishment already

[timid kindle]

As a Utah i have to pick my fights carefuly coss almost anything can insta kill me. But on the other hand i am able to kill anything too.

[urban flax]

Oh and I gladly inform you that herbivores have limited stamina and food bars, just like carnivores

[trim mauve]

Are you high? Tenos Stam makes or breaks of it's gonna die and not everything needs a herd are you suggesting that stegos go in herds to be safe from a couple of carnos?

[timid kindle]

Single Pathy or teno jumpingo n rock full of adult raptors is not stupid? Well in this game not, he will kill half of them and go home...

[urban flax]

Skill issue ?

[timid kindle]

exactly just liek carnivors... thats problem number one

[urban flax]

One pachy vs one utah is a 50/50 fight so I don't see how a single pachy can kill every utah on a rock unless they're all sleeping

[urban flax]

Are you trying to say carnivores should have infinite stamina or something ?

[timid kindle]

i will be happy if you show me how you could do anything agaisnt taht patchy on limited space as utah. Please show me .)

[urban flax]

1. Get more space so you have room to fight

[trim mauve]

Jump off the rock and fight in the open dont brawl a fucking pachy

[timid kindle]

ye so full pack of utahs has to leave their rock coss one patchy makes damn sence right

[urban flax]

If it's a full pack what prevents them from just pouncing the pachy while it's busy attacking another one of them ?

[burnt bone]

I have been killed by raptors on a rock as a pachy, you just slowly drain its stam by baiting attacks. Then run up there to bite it often so it can’t heal the bleed

[trim mauve]

A pack of Utah's could easily kill a pachy even in close quarters one pounce and it's done also if you saw it coming fight it on the ground just sounds like a skill issue tbh

[timid kindle]

Well does any of you even play utah? Coss its my main and i saw this too many times and it ends up with many dead utahs killed by one hit. I am ussualy one of few alive and offen with broken leg or head. Pounce itself is not reliable at all now.

[urban flax]

That goes back to my point. Fix bugs instead of balancing things around them

[trim mauve]

Yeah I did I played Utah the most out of any dinosaur in evirma it just needs the pounce bug fixed that's it not buffed

[timid kindle]

True i agree that can maybe solve some issues but still herbies seem too strong to do this shit, there shoudl be some sence of fear to get in fight as utahs has. At least for somethign small as patchy.

[burnt bone]

I main pachy, so I know the fight from the pachy side and what a utah needs to do

And pachy’s bash is also unreliable, but it isn’t as bad as utah pounce I admit.

[timid kindle]

I dont mind stego being dick and run in pack of utahs. He is big stego. But single patchy, thats just not right.

@burnt bone well tell me, does patchy need to be moving to knck down? Coss today patchy who wasnt moving at all knock me down and before i get up he kncked me secodn tiem without moving even one cm. He was stuck with me on place.

[burnt bone]

Here’s the issue, herbies can’t just lose a 1v1 to any carni. The balance of this game is “can’t fight? Run. Can’t run? Fight” pachy has no chance to run from utahs, so it must be able to defend itself and fight off the utahs.
And before you say “just herd up” I’m going to link you this: #balance-feedback message

[burnt bone]

Nope, alt attack can knock you down, and a standing tap bash can knock you down.

[limber hull]

this entire discussion is incredible

i cant believe we went full circle

[burnt bone]

Generally, if a pachy lands a hit on the utah, the utah needs to back off. But a single pounce drains half the pachy’s blood, so it’s basically dead then. And pachy’s attacks have long end-lag and are predictable, so it’s easy to bait attacks and continue bleed

[limber hull]

at the start of U4.5, everyone said pachy was useless and weak

now pachy's overpowered and problematic

same update, no balance changes

[burnt bone]

It still is weak, just it’s hits are more reliable so people think it’s difficult to deal with

[timid kindle]

@burnt bonewell from my experience one hit from patchy means death. You are not bale to get up if he will not let you and focus someone else.

[limber hull]

yes thats kind of the idea

this is why you do not fight a pachy with limited space

[lapis swallow]

Guess what? Ive been rammed as an utah solo and got away

[limber hull]

its whole design involves it punishing you for not respecting its space

[urban flax]

And once pounce from utah and pachy is dead

[timid kindle]

guess what, he was really bad, or not adult or you fking lucky

[burnt bone]

That one patch where they broke everything actually made pachy’s ram prioritize the legs rather than the ribs, so it made the ram more reliable.

[lapis swallow]

Or I just respected him and I ran away because I didnt want to lose my dam utah

[timid kindle]

did you even read this chat?....

[burnt bone]

Generally you can live at low health after their combo, unless you get a leg break. And if they chase you down with a rib break, then the pachy dies too.

[lapis swallow]

And I saw it many times that a utah can survive a pachy bash

It needs three hits to kill an utah

[timid kindle]

Nobody fkign stay attack patchy after getting one hit. Everyone wants to get away lol, but most cant, they will die before they can get up.

[limber hull]

as i understand it, mr baltazar wants pachy to be part of the "eat grass and die" tier of the tier list

[lapis swallow]

So you can get away but badly injured

[lapis swallow]

🤝

[timid kindle]

i want herbi act more liek herbi and not be able to do shit liek 1 small patchy jump in 6 adult raptors with no fear and be able to kill half of them

[burnt bone]

Unless pachy lands 2 charged headshots on a ram or a charged ram and all alt attacks on the head, the utah can live the attack.

[burnt bone]

They’re people. If a utah wants it can jump into a pack of 6 pachies.

[timid kindle]

I have different experience. I saw patchy jump in the utah pack, instantly after landing jump knock one down,, do few alt attacks aroudn to knock the rest who tries attack it and then finish some of them

[lapis swallow]

Then accept that a utah is a bleeder, that means he kills the things over time and a very fragile dino. So even if they injure it so bad that it will die, it will have the time to kill half of them. Thats how utah works

[limber hull]

if a single pachy is killing 3 raptors with 3 more to back them up, that reflects more on the raptors than the pachy

[timid kindle]

ye he can, and he will for sure die, patchy doing same shit will easily live

[limber hull]

with all due respect, literally kill the pachy, its not hard with 6 raptors

[burnt bone]

Ok, those it killed must have been hit before and came back in. Pachy can not 1-shot a raptor

[lapis swallow]

A pachy that jumps six utahs will do that too

[limber hull]

this frankly sounds like a massive skill issue

[lapis swallow]

Skill issue

[low canopy]

you should strive to play entire roster to expand your views on match ups rather than play one and go ham about balance without having entire picture of it,
Although this goes for MOST who talk here tbf

[burnt bone]

Pachy can’t though, unless the utahs are bad.

[timid kindle]

skill issue? well than its skill issue for 90% of utahs i play with

[limber hull]

god damn

thats a lot of people who literally cant kill an animal that dies in a single pounce

[limber hull]

i will play only one animal, die to another and ask for the attacker to be nerfed to oblivion

[burnt bone]

Personally I just play pachy, so I know pachy’s matchups and mostly talk about pachy’s side.

[lapis swallow]

I think he is the type of player that goes up to pachys and expects to win because he is an Uwutah and it should be able to win everytime. But what he dont realises is that an utah had fricking hollow bones so he will not be able to tank more than a few hits

[urban flax]

Utahraptor ? Hollow bones ? Where did you get that from ?

[limber hull]

yea idk where this is from

[lapis swallow]

Dramoesaurias where close relatives to the birds and had hollow bones

Just looked it up

[burnt bone]

No, I think he’s just inexperienced, so he and his pack got killed by a good pachy on a rock.

[timid kindle]

and i think you are dumb person who make assumptions about peopel he doesnt know at all and is not even able read conversation he is part of where i told many times how i play and whats problem

[lapis swallow]

And you read our part and still think that pachy is overpowered

[timid kindle]

anyway, just shared my experience and opinion no need to say more, some agree some dont its fine but soem startign to be toxic pricks so, thx for discussion to others

[lapis swallow]

Sorry i kinda overreacted there i have to admit

[timid kindle]

yes thats my experience and coss i dont agree with you that means you now will make form me bad player and make up some stupid gameplay i dont do, awesome

[timid kindle]

apology accepted, thanks

[urban flax]

Sorry to say but your sources are probably wrong. Being a relative to something doesn't mean you're exactly the same; Bones become hollow only to allow flight, and it's very clear that utah couldn't fly. If anything it needed sturdy bones because it was a massive predator who probably got into fights (either with prey or members of the same species) often.

[lapis swallow]

Okay

[limber hull]

i still disagree with the prvevalent "eat grass and die" mindset

[timid kindle]

Did you saw new dino documentary? In first episode i tihnk it was. There was T-rex swiming and they said he has hollow bones so it helps him swim.

[signal beacon]

I've met people who think that because herbivores eat plants they have no fighting instinct so they can't fight

[timid kindle]

nobody ever said that or wanted that, that what you made up

[limber hull]

you literally want pachy to be only viable in herds

[timid kindle]

no i never said that

[limber hull]

and punished for killing anything that isn't an immediate threat

[burnt bone]

I disagree with “just herd up” mindset quite a lot

[timid kindle]

i only said it to be weaker somehow so it has at least some fear when jumping in pakc of carnivores

[urban flax]

You're talking about prehistoric planet ? I haven't watched it yet, and I've never heard of any terrestrial dino having hollow bones either. I'll have to watch it and see

[signal beacon]

Pachy is already kinda bad while solo and you wanna make it worse?

[timid kindle]

ye i think thats a name of show

[limber hull]

it does, the only reason it doesnt is likely because it can tell it'll have the advantage, and based on its killcount, it did

[urban flax]

I remember that old suggestion saying herbis should only be able to do damage to a carnivore once they took damage themselves

[timid kindle]

that doesnt make sence, they woudl not be able to protect bebies and nest etc

[signal beacon]

It does, it bleeds out very easily and has the health pool of a glass pane

[urban flax]

Yes that's one of the worst suggestions I've ever read regarding the "eat grass and die" mindset

[limber hull]

a pachy only has 50 more HP and blood than a utah, barely anything

two utahs pouncing on each side of a pachy might as well equal death

not to mention pachy relies heavily on sprinting, and bleed does more damage on sprinting targets

utahs are massive pachy predators if played well

literally one utah is all you need to kill one

[burnt bone]

Utah and pachy have basically the same hp, pachy just has to be able to end the fight with a single hit, while utahs are bleeders who drain over time.

[timid kindle]

sorry but i have really differen experience, i rather go solo adult carno than fight solo adult patchy same for pack fight

[limber hull]

pachys are all about baiting and reacting

if you're running towards the pachy without making sure its unable to react, you're fucked

i once killed 10 pachies in a single life as a solo utah

[signal beacon]

Utah just doesn't have a good matchup against nimble animals that can hit super hard.

[limber hull]

its all about technique and strategy

[lapis swallow]

Bruh

[limber hull]

mindless biting and pouncing will get you killed

[signal beacon]

Ambush a pachy as a utah and you have a guaranteed meal in like 5 minutes

[lapis swallow]

How do you know its unable to react, sorry but im kinda new at the game so i wanna get all the knowledge

[limber hull]

its ram has a long animation during and after, much like utah

during this animation, it's entirely open

[burnt bone]

Utah just has the highest skill floor at the moment, if played poorly you’re useless. But if you play perfectly, only bugs can stop you.

[lapis swallow]

So it fails a ram you pounce?

[limber hull]

or just bite

if you feel that a pounce will take too long

[lapis swallow]

Or it attacks another player with the ram and you use the opporitunity

[burnt bone]

And if it fails an alt, go for a bite

[lapis swallow]

Thanks

[limber hull]

utah has the highest skill floor and ceiling, it's VERY tough and strategic

it also has insane potential

[burnt bone]

It has less end lag if it hits

[lapis swallow]

Imma just main it because i love being mobile and social, and i want to murder babus and have an excuse for it (the last one is half sarcastic)

[burnt bone]

Miss stuns pachy for a sec, a hit stuns for 0.5 I believe

[lapis swallow]

And i like utah

[burnt bone]

Utah seems fun and rewarding, but I like the bonk of pachy

[limber hull]

pachy bonk funny

[timid kindle]

Utahs is awesome if you have pack of really good players. If you get random group normal players its ussualy pain to watch... but a big part of that are lags and bugged pounce.

[jagged jewel]

fighting pachy as utah is so fun if you’re solo

[burnt bone]

Yeah utah is crippled with the lag and bugged pounce atm, once they fix that it should be much better.

[burnt bone]

I wish I had more experience fighting utahs, the few times I have it was fun and difficult.

[signal beacon]

Utah went from "haha I'm behind you I win! Oh I died to a bug."
To
"I carefully plan my pounces and have to play perfectly and if I can I get a huge payoff. Oh I died to a bug."

[timid kindle]

pretty much yes

[barren zephyr]

anyone notice the desync of the gators?

their mouth will be around the side of their body but grapple anything that is behind them

[lapis swallow]

@rich grove I dont know how to code but a kind of stam hack could be countered if the game adds a counter for how long you have been doing actions that cost stamina and if you regen stamina it will know what dino you play so it will know if you are using illegal amounts of stamina. If you keep track of a dinosaurs stamina drop and the anticheat notices a absurd amount off stamina being used it kicks the player and kill their dino. Would be a cool feature. Or it just IP bans them

But I have no idea how somebody could do it but i thinks its possible

[signal beacon]

That would require the game to be more optimized because it has to make all those calculations. Possible? Yes. Possible with how the game is right now? Not by a long shot.

[lapis swallow]

I have no Idea how to deal with esp hacks tho

[rich grove]

Knowing what I do with coding that would require constant checking of the animals stamina when coding that anti cheat causing it to lag the player if it’s client side, it’s just better off for the anti cheat to detect tampering with the files or something off rather than those methods

[signal beacon]

That just requires a functional anti cheat. Which EAC clearly isn't.

[rich grove]

They are crude and not that much of a solution

[lapis swallow]

If you can just stam hack as you please the anticheat clearly doesnt work

And Esp

[signal beacon]

EAC seems like it just lags the game lmao. It hasn't helped one bit.

[lapis swallow]

I think it wouldnt even take me an hour to get the cheats and then hack around in the game, with no fear of being banned because the anticheat sucks

But I wont do that please dont ban me discord moderators.

[silver sierra]

I agree with the trap pits post. Lost a teno and a pachy to that shit

[tight oxide]

I like how some pros just dont use pounce because of its buggyness

[burnt bone]

Yeah I noticed that too, it’s kinda sad.

[tight oxide]

now imagine pros using pounce with such skills

Would be bleeding out almost anything easily

[burnt bone]

Exactly, utah should be basically unstoppable if you don’t make a mistake, but those mistakes are punishable. Even the pros will eventually die because we are human, we will make mistakes.

[errant vine]

I agree with the post from @barren zephyr - however I don’t think there was the need to slander the dev team at the end- it’s inconsiderate as they are people just like us and have lives to attend to as well as the game- not to mention the fact there are already so many other things that need attention too

[lapis swallow]

I think they will fix the pounce in update five

If they dont they say fuck you to the community, utah is one of the most played dinos

[tough umbra]

havent played in a while. is utah still shit

[barren crater]

Pounce is broken soooooo

[lofty lark]

#general-feedback message
please dondi i want linux support :D

[random night]

@rough hemlock You are to late they already have planned out nest invites

[limber hull]

give my boy dryo some cool shit

[queen ember]

Ahh yes let’s put a playable that’s already ingame on the back burner cause it’s not a priority.

But it’s also the backbone for literally half the smaller roster food items like Utah or Herrera.

Heck hypsi gets more love and that thing is less enjoyable than when I play Dryo

[limber hull]

nah hypsi is more enjoyable

[queen ember]

I don’t really enjoy it, but maybe that’ll change once more systems come in place like nesting and elders

[limber hull]

and climbing

[queen ember]

Yeah

Climbing alone won’t really make it more fun but it’ll def help flesh it out

[burnt bone]

Hypsi is just a troll, it’s mainly fun because there’s no growth and you just run around being a rat and blinding people. It has no way to survive anything other than hiding in the forests. It has so many cool abilities, but they do nothing to help it. Climbing should help make it much more enjoyable and give the super jump a use, but spit is still just a troll ability unless they make it easier to hit and not turn you around when you’re running.

[smoky grail]

Any Fps improvements in close future ?

[barren zephyr]

I've been playing the game for 5 years, the game used to be better than it currently is. I don't know how they have progressively made the game less fun. I admit that it is wrong to slander them, but I was quite frustrated that a game I used to love slowly became this mess.

[calm granite]

hypsi will always be boring, same with dryo and pt

dryo should be an ai only tbh

[burnt bone]

I disagree with all of that, it might be boring to you, but not to others. Some people prefer to be the prey and have to keep an eye out and run. Many people enjoy being the large carnivores, but I dislike many of them. I like the small herbivores and carnivores, it feels more rewarding when I overcome the larger dinos rather than to just bully things smaller than me.

[calm granite]

quite the masochist

im a completive person most the time so thats my reasoning, if they revert pt to up3 then ill say its not boring, but rn its so boring. good to learn the maps with tho

[tight oxide]

wait for quetz

[uneven mist]

If you want an pterosaur who can kill smals and juvis, wait for quetz, ptera isn’t really a pvp playable

[tight oxide]

Though I would wanna say they should remove ptera from Utah diet since it barely gives anything

[frosty willow]

i dont like the para concept

[uneven mist]

The what?

[frosty willow]

#general-feedback

scroll up abit

[uneven mist]

Ohh, thought u said court, my bad

[elfin imp]

just solod two carnos life is good as a pachy rn

[urban flax]

@trail mesa If nobody notices the damage reduction, why is it necessary that it gets removed ? For me the current damage reduction (10%) is perfectly fine. It's not high enough to give players an advantage during a fight but still makes being in a group make sense, and make some mistakes not as punishing. It also makes sense realistically-wise, since you wouldn't bite harder if you notice (even if too late) that you're biting one of your friends.

[trail mesa]

I think it’s pointless and shouldn’t be in a game like this. People don’t notice it in the same way they don’t notice many hidden features (hunger and thirst drastically effecting bleed for example)

[limber hull]

yea, seems remarkably inoffensive to warrant removal

also adds more of a reason to pack, if minimal

[urban flax]

It makes it so there is damage reduction for groups, so people who want damage reduction are happy (or at least you can tell them "but there already is damage reduction for groups") and as I said, it makes sense. And it's not as meaningless as it seems.

[lapis swallow]

Bro just gave himself a upvote

[urban flax]

He put both reactions under his message so people can react easier

[lapis swallow]

K

[pale badge]

#general-feedback message
I would like to know why the people doesn't like this idea and what could be improved.

[lapis swallow]

There are multiple servers in the isle and it would make death less punishing as you could just download another dino from your storage

[proven river]

it's an abusable mechanic for a hardcore survival game

send a ptera to scout, spawn a rex to kill etc

[lapis swallow]

Bruh true, this is op

Didnt think of that, just disliked the idea

[proven river]

lmao yeah it would make for such abusable tactics

[lapis swallow]

Scout out people with beipi, spawn as a croc

[proven river]

plus y'know, first off ruins the fear of death and makes the game less tense as well as making every dino less important, second off means you have even more potential for mixpacking and not playing how the game was intended to be played

[pale badge]

Yea but that could happen if you have friends you being a ptera and the other the rex

[proven river]

that's not any better lol and it's still a flawed idea

[pale badge]

What idea?

[lapis swallow]

Yours

[pale badge]

Ohhh

[lapis swallow]

So you are arguing with "yes my idea is abusable but people can do it a other way so it doesnt matter that my idea is abusable"?

[proven river]

[pale badge]

But why will this make death meaningless? Is like dying and going to another server to play your grown dino but instead of going to another server you can play in the same server without having to wait to enter another server. And where could you get the mixpacking?

[proven river]

dying is meaningless because you didn't lose anything, if you can just spawn another grown dino then you might as well be playing sandbox

[pale badge]

Yeah buy you waste that dino that die

[proven river]

the game starts when you grow to adult

[lapis swallow]

You can just stockpile yourselfes on raptor (which I would do) because they are so fucking easy to grow. And then death becomes meaningless

[proven river]

if you have several adults you can just.. yeah what dinohappen said

[pale badge]

Sorry, I mean that you lost the dino that die.

[lapis swallow]

Come on I just go southeast at the beach find one turtle, camp the water place and imma upload my dino and repeat

[pale badge]

In my approach I said that tou shouldn't be able to spawn in the same server where you upload the dino

[low canopy]

people would have to start playing around the fact that other people might have bazillion dinos stored on that server, and u having to fight each of them til you die yourself

[lapis swallow]

Then use one server to grind dinos and use another to play with them

This promotes afking even more

Which the devs want to fight

[proven river]

lol yeah just hop on au and grow then use those dinos XD

[pale badge]

What means bazillion?

[proven river]

big number

[pale badge]

There could be a limit

[proven river]

its an expression

[pale badge]

And something like you can only have 1 member of a species on the cloud

[proven river]

if you want to spawn as creatures that you have logged on a cloud thingamabob play sandbox when it's out

this mechanic would remove the whole survival aspect completely

[pale badge]

I don't want to play grows i don't want to kill my dinos when i want to try another

[proven river]

well don't you see how this mechanic would totally screw the game?

[pale badge]

Because now it isn't a big deal, because the growth times aren't so high. But with large growth times it can be frustrating.

[proven river]

if this was the case then people would afk grow on an empty server and boom now you have a grown dinosaur on another server

[low canopy]

you should play different dinos on different servers if u want to avoid killing them just to switch

[proven river]

^^^ this!

[low canopy]

i got 6 different dinos on officials

[pale badge]

But there is not enough servers

[proven river]

I have one of each dinosaur on each server

[proven river]

[pale badge]

Because me that i am fron eu if i get in na it is superlagged

And when i want to play with a friend with a dino but in the server where he is I have already another dino i have to kill it in order to play with him

[proven river]

if you have all the dinosaurs from afk growing then you can literally just play sandbox on survival

[pale badge]

And for this there could be a limit like you can't move a dino from an eu official to an na official.

[proven river]

the whole game is that you grow your dinosaurs

[pale badge]

I know

[proven river]

so you just contradicted your own point?

[pale badge]

No

I said limits

[proven river]

so by adding this mechanic you diminish the whole game.

[pale badge]

But why?

[proven river]

because everyone would have a grown dino of each dino and all juveniles would be hopeless, once again it takes away the whole survival aspect if everyone can just change dinosaurs and be adults of whatever species they have logged... play sandbox if that's the experience you want

[pale badge]

Afk growing is something that could happen anywhere and anywhen. You are the one who choose how to play

[proven river]

first off there is no reason not to afk grow, it's the most efficient way to grow up. secondly yeah you could afk grow normally but this encourages it exponentially

[pale badge]

I told you already i love growing but i don't want to be killing my dinos everytime i want to grow another

[proven river]

whatever, I disagree and 14 others do too, it's late can we end this here?

good discussion. it was interesting to see your point of view

[low canopy]

i think having dino slots would be cool, but i really don't care about if we get em or not since unofficials already have em

[pale badge]

And regarding this. It would be to op to grow a dino in an unoficial server with ×2 growth and get in an official. So ther should be an option like in Pot or Ark where you only can transfer things if the servers are clustered

[pale badge]

Thanks

I hope you have a great day

[pale badge]

What do you mean?

[limber hull]

@proven river why the troll face? This suggestion is extremely serious in nature. It's a real problem.

[low canopy]

they basically use bot system where you just post a command of sorts on their discord and it swamps your dino on that server, dinos are stored on servers afaik

not all servers have it though

reckon it takes some skill to make a bot

[pale badge]

But how does it work?

[low canopy]

i can't really explain it better than that
learning commands and what they do is pretty much it
if you ever come around to try those things (assuming it wont become legit feature), there are guides on respective servers how to use em

[pale badge]

Okey

[pale badge]

But I think that you aren't understanding my idea. The system would work like the transfer system in ARK, having also an storage function. Where you only have in the cloud the dinos that you had uploaded, action that would take some time and make your dino stop existing in that server having a server without dino. Then if you want to use one of the uploaded dinos you have to enter a server where you haven't any dinos and select some option to spawn with that dino in some of the preselected zones.

But thanks for your opinion the next time i would try to make it more clear and understandabke.

[modest kindle]

Mega pack should be tackled with disease system.

[latent olive]

@pale badge simply put, revenge killing

[pale badge]

what means simply put?

[latent olive]

long story short

If you were allowed multiple creatures on one server, what’s stopping you from scouting around as something small and fast, finding a target, suiciding, then swapping to your super decked out power rex, locating the target and obliterating them

The victim would die, get angry, then swap to THEIR super decked out power rex, and seek revenge

Basically a vicious cycle

It’ll be a convoluted system that will have to be tweaked endlessly

[pale badge]

there is he fact that you don't read it well. Yes you could seek revengen but unlike PoT you wouldn't have multiple dinos in the same server beacause the dinos that you upload would disappear so the next time you want to use them you would have to select an spawn and wait like when you die so the victim have time to leave the zone

[limber hull]

this entire uploading system seems abhorrently convoluted and exceptionally exploitable

i think you'd need an entire tutorial on how to use this one system, the way you describe it

[latent olive]

But why even bother going through all that development when you could just keep the current system, which works perfectly fine

Especially with the elder system and natural death

[pale badge]

what system?

[limber hull]

spawn as dino

play as dino

die as dino

spawn as new dino

[latent olive]

You choose a creature, you live that creature’s life, you die

Saving a dinosaur and then loading from other servers would be a pain to develop

[pale badge]

yeah but with these you wouldn't have to kill yourself to play a new dino

[latent olive]

If you want a new life, then you remove the old one

[pale badge]

yeah but why would i have to do that? If i have in all the serves a dino but i want to play another one

[latent olive]

Because it’s a survival simulator

[limber hull]

alright, i'll propose a system of my own

you get three slots on a server
each slot can contain 1 dinosaur of any species, gender and age
you cant delete slots, the animal MUST die.
if you pick a slot for any reason, the moment you log, there is a 2 hour cooldown on selecting a new dinosaur slot. If you die, you either spawn as a new animal for that slot or leave the server for 2 hours. rejoining on the slot resets the cooldown to 2 hours

done. No convoluted cloud, no possibility for insane revenge killing. It is explicitly designed for people who are just hopping on the game to make a choice and stick to it for the whole rest of the play session

[latent olive]

You’re trying to survive as the creature you chose

[pale badge]

that would be like pot a disaster of revenge

[limber hull]

you gonna commit revenge in 2 hours?

you have to literally log out for 2 hours

[latent olive]

This isn’t supposed to be a chatroom simulator like path of titans or a Mariana Trench bioluminescence concert like beasts of bermuda

[pale badge]

yeah so why do i have to kill myself everytime i want to play another? What if i don't like it?

[latent olive]

then too bad

💀

[pale badge]

but for this is the system to grow multiple dinos to try them not to be always with the same

[latent olive]

If you want to try out new dinosaurs then join a free growth community server or make your own server

hopefully one day we get sandbox too

[limber hull]

today my friends wanted to grow an animal with me

i had a well grown carno on the server

you know how i dealt with this issue?

[pale badge]

Upload, change to a linked server, if you don't have any dino select a sapwn, if you have a dino then you upload it and then spawn with the other

[limber hull]

i killed the carno

[limber hull]

im literally confused from the TL;DR

[uneven mist]

Ur lucky to have friends to play the isle with

[pale badge]

what?

[limber hull]

im evidently a very popular man

[uneven mist]

[pale badge]

i know i have done it a lot of times

but sometimes it is frustrating to lose all your progress jus to play with your friends

[pale badge]

what do you mean with TLDR?

[limber hull]

heres the thing, i dont think having to fucking download a rex from the mainframe is the solution

[pale badge]

the thing is not download is just to make room in the server to you create another dino

a great exameple would be th PC in pokemon

[limber hull]

i literally still dont understand the suggestion at all, regardless of how much you try to simplify it

[pale badge]

You have 1 dino in a server, for some reason you want to create another dino in that server, so when you press ESC you will have an option called UPLOAD you click it and you will have to wait. Then it will be like if the dino have died so you appear in the spawn menu and you can create another dino in that server. And the first dino wouldn't be dead but if you want to use it you have yo enter in an server where you don't have any dino.

[limber hull]

wait, so how is that an upload???

[pale badge]

because it is in the cloud

[pale badge]

if you want an example look to the transfer system in ark

[limber hull]

god damn i cant imagine the sheer fuckery of having to make an entirely cross-server cloud system that somehow supports all servers

[pale badge]

not all the servers

[pale badge]

https://youtu.be/G2pilRGw22Y look at this

[limber hull]

ark

[icy lion]

The idea of being able to grow an apex on an empty server with no risk then transferring it to a server with actual players is insane

[limber hull]

^

[latent olive]

surely the clans will ignore such a feature

[low canopy]

That can be done right now and in future aswell, its called playing during night

[pale badge]

yeah that is the biggest issue

but for this you only can transfer dinos to linked servers

[limber hull]

it'd take a really horrible kind of group of people to grow a massive mixpack apex killsquad in a safe server to transfer it to a populated one and utterly wipe the entire server

[low canopy]

not that i disagree with it or anything, it would be even worse tbh with actual "growth servers" solely to grow

[limber hull]

linked servers can be empty???

what is this

[latent olive]

yeah but at least you are locked to that specific server

[pale badge]

yes but for that reason every server can be empty in some moment of the day and you can go there and growth your dinos