general-feedback-discussion

[barren crater]

I wouldn’t call Carnos fine. They’re the most abundant thing on land right now. I’ve seen barely any adult pachys or stegos.

[limber hull]

i'll be honest, one thing i am a fan of, stego is actually hard to grow

[barren crater]

I went past a group of 10+ adult carnos today so yeah there’s something wrong

[barren crater]

I actually like how little there are- but I’m assuming it’s because of the sheer number of carnos killing them

[limber hull]

yea probably. But the fact that there's an apex that's ACTUALLY hard to grow is promising. Too bad deino gets the easy treatment

[barren crater]

Issue is that it’s an apex herbi. Since the smaller stages for stego are quite frankly shit. Which will be the case for other apex herbis. Apex carnis will likely be fast at least- and if diets are easy for them like the currently then it will probably be easy to grow. I don’t know much about gore update to comment on it.

[cobalt compass]

i hope for an avg player who decides to play apex carni their avg mortality rates are like followed if spawned in solo juvi:
juvi 70%
sub 40%

[barren zephyr]

@barren crater carno megapacks will be fixed when devs add more damn mid tier carnivores

[barren crater]

Depends what the mid tiers are. Cera and bary could split up players.

Although cera could be considered small/pseudo mid

[limber hull]

Funny thing is that the next "mid-tier" carnivore after carno is fucking allo which is 900kg bigger

[barren zephyr]

@limber hull they best way to solve the diet shit is buffing the dinos with the problem not nerfing the ones that don't suffer it

[barren crater]

I’d go higher

[barren zephyr]

I meant cera

[limber hull]

Cera is pseudo-mid

Also cera gonna get clapped by carno most of the time

[barren zephyr]

Well yes, but what I mean is a carnivore that is not troodon, troodon just will split utah's playerbase not carno's

[limber hull]

Troodon is cool tho

[barren zephyr]

Yeah but like a said troodon will be more used by utah players, carno main might play it but just for 2 weeks after release

[barren zephyr]

I mean cera, he must be the U5.5 playable

[barren crater]

[limber hull]

idk about "must" lmao

[barren zephyr]

Should*

But we will know better when devs decide is a good time to update trello roadmap

[barren crater]

We just need a playable that at least in pairs- can kill a Carno. Which cera likely will be.

[keen bough]

do people agree with my post on phase two requests or is it bad?

[barren zephyr]

Just fact of adding another big carni ( in comparation with the current roster) will decrase carno numbers

It doesnt even need to be a carno killer

[cobalt compass]

for a first testing thats enough, would make most of them cry an entire week

[barren crater]

I’d give apexes diets right from the beginning (if it’s anything like now)

I only want to see like 5 apexes per server 🙂

Carnis that is

[barren zephyr]

It will depend on how good the player is at surviving, there isnt a natural way to make apexes have higher chances to die in a exact life state

[cobalt compass]

soft cap, making it a true challenge to become adult should be good

average players

or more like 70% of the playerbase that plays apex'

obv those number go up with less skill

[keen bough]

wonder if sandbox is one day going to be a thing

[barren zephyr]

Apexes will need to hunt herbi apexes to survive so that is enough to reduce apex numbers

[half shard]

Also surviving the long grow time

[barren crater]

It will

Confirmed by devs

[limber hull]

i'd give all animals diets right from the beginning. Nothing deserves an exception

Just make diets and growth unrelated

The biggest problem with diets as they are is the simple act of them so heavily impacting growth

[barren zephyr]

@limber hull @barren crater i think I've found the solution for herbi diet so they can have the 3 nutrient easier but they still need to migrate, make the different nutrients spawn close again (not as close as before) but in low numbers (enough to let a significant amount of herbis to stay there for and hour at least), also make the plants be finished in less bites, for the migration part, plants should respawn every hour and a half, between each diet point there should be at least one river, the time you would need to go from one diet point to another should be at least 20 minutes if you cross the river or 30 if you go around it, this way herbis will be able to stay in one area but would need to migrate after 1 hour, and by the time the other area has ran out of food, in the first area the plants would have spawn again

[barren crater]

I can agree to that. It’s quite crazy how having even 2 diets means you’ll grow for a long time. Currently having 3 diets is a must regardless of growth- seeing how it pretty much means you heal faster, regen stam quicker and more. So for those who want to take on riskier fights- having 3 diets is necessary rather than 1

[limber hull]

i just think diets should have less to do with growth. Make growth speed dependent on several factors, diet can be one of many factors

[barren crater]

Multiple factors Any specifics or?

[cobalt compass]

how much you spend on lootboxes prior

[barren crater]

I think herbi diets should be separate in terms of size. Juvi herbis shouldn’t be going where adults are expected to. They don’t have the means to get there as efficiently , nor do they have the tools to defend themselves.

[barren crater]

[cobalt compass]

also buynig the definitive and collectors edition

[barren crater]

https://tenor.com/view/kanye-west-kobe-bryant-kobe-system-what-does-that-mean-confused-gif-5433109

[limber hull]

i'd like something like territories for specific animals, as an example. Owning, marking and staying in a territory increases growth speed along with some other minor buffs

However, since everyone knows you're in there, you can't just AFK there

You HAVE to be actively cautious

And know if something bigger wants it

Some animals should outright have territorial behaviours, something that can't be done with this constant search for dietary requirements

It's kind of like a comfort system, minus everything awful about a comfort system

[barren crater]

Sounds interesting in concept. I wonder how that would play out

Like a lot of things so far to me have cool concepts but then when you play

[limber hull]

Nah, no debuffs imho for not following it

Only buffs if you do

Make people compete for comfortable territories

Carrot over stick

[barren crater]

Please. I hate debuffs with the whole preferred food thing. It’s just chores

Like losing damage? Has that been changed?

[barren zephyr]

I think so?

[limber hull]

the amount of damage lost is lessened

i'll be honest, not too upset about diet debuffs. The act of eating a nutrient meal is way too easy

[barren crater]

Yeah I can agree with that I guess since I never have 0 diets so eh

[barren zephyr]

I dont like that, 1 that being only for apexes is not fair, 2 the secondary effect of showing off your territory is that you lose a lot of possible preys cause they know there's high chances of an adult apex (dobleing the difficulty of growing, but that is exactly your point so i guess you like this secondary effect)

[limber hull]

only some animals would be territorial, not all

carno for example, i cannot see being territorial

it's far too fast-paced

[barren zephyr]

I thought you said all apexes, maybe I'm blind

I see now

You said it in the first sentence, I'm dumb

[cobalt compass]

also i think wave meant dynamic territories

[limber hull]

yes

while it is true, apexes would be favoured, territories cannot be shared. If you have too many of one species in a territory, the buffs will go away

[cobalt compass]

so you could always expand or shrink in its size

[limber hull]

i'd say if the amount of animals is anything but your own kind or way over a group size within the territory, buff gone

megapacks and mixpacks literally cannot benefit from it

also i think some animals both should not be territorial or not care about species

for example, a dryo walking in does not remove buffs

because why the fuck should it

[cobalt compass]

what'd you say to visual hints like a light barrier similar to the map border but not so much vision disturbing but any other species have to use their vision and check for the physical markings and such

[barren zephyr]

In that aspect of dinos caring about other dinos, do you mean something like JWE?

[limber hull]

im unsure what you mean by that

its more like an apex wouldn't be annoyed if a dryo walked in

[empty epoch]

More like, it aint worth the hunt 🙂

[limber hull]

because the dryo isn't contesting it, nor is it big enough for the animal to even consider it a threat to the territory

[barren zephyr]

In JWE theres a mechanic that some dinos dont like specific dinos to be around them so if you put 2 dinos that dont like eachother they get debuffs

[empty epoch]

is this for AI or players?

[limber hull]

JWE is singleplayer?

[barren zephyr]

Jurassic world evolution

[empty epoch]

yes

[barren zephyr]

How alone has to be some people to need global chat back?

[empty epoch]

modding support

[keen bough]

People rage quit on you in global chat when you hunted their sweet, beloved apex that they spent sooo long to grow in legacy,

[cobalt compass]

global was/is a pest

[barren zephyr]

What does "rage quit on you in global chat" means? How are they gonna talk to you if they left the server?

[paper oriole]

People often spawned back in to shit talk before they quit the server

[barren zephyr]

Sounds good now thx

[valid zephyr]

I still think it should be a toggleable server option for private servers.

Should definitely not be a thing on officials though.

[dense vale]

same but people dont like that, no freedom for us

or if a way to keep the baby and only throw out the bathwater was figured out first

[cobalt compass]

yea, idc what private server do or wont... i had too much trouble on them for enough of my time

[dense vale]

it just took me a long time to find a private server i liked, but once i did it was best gaming i ever had. but its gone now anyway

[valid zephyr]

I try to stick to officials.

pity half the people there seem to have wallhacks these days.

[hazy ferry]

Why dont people want global chat?

[dense vale]

basically one team says it has too much garbage. then the other team says they want it optional on private servers with rules and moderation which can take care of the garbage parts. and thats it, been a stalemate for months lol

poop could maybe be good, but probably have to make it involuntary action. or else everyone is gonna have a field day trolling with it

[candid schooner]

No poop

Theres no reason, why do yall wanna see a dinosaur defacate so much damn

[paper oriole]

a poop defender

[candid schooner]

Because a lot of people believe - me included - itd ruin the realism being able to talk to people across the map, and would encourage mixpacking, stuff like that

[hazy ferry]

Idk game is really empty and boring without it

[candid schooner]

Oop sorry didnt mean to ping with that

[paper oriole]

i think global chat works fine in sandbox servers, in fact it is very useful in sandbox servers. but it isnt needed for survival

[candid schooner]

Ye i agree

[dense vale]

with chat global gone, most plant food gone, wallowing mostly gone. im just bored frankly, need some kind of mechanics to interact with

id even take poop at this point im desperrate lol

[paper oriole]

aw hell naw

[candid schooner]

Gross

No thanks

[paper oriole]

no poop no poop

[candid schooner]

no poop no poop

[dense vale]

back to walking sim

[paper oriole]

at least no pooping sim

imagine youre hiding from a predator in a tense situation and the game just decides your dino has to drop a fat load and it just gives your position away and you die

[candid schooner]

Loll yeah

[paper oriole]

id be so mad lol

nO!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

https://tenor.com/view/its-time-to-stop-meme-ride-or-die-riding-gif-18613138

[low canopy]

hey atleast said thing would provoke some sort of feeling out of you, not even negative one
i would consider that a win

[hazy ferry]

Game actually is boring without global chat

[urban flax]

The problem doesn't come from the absence of global chat

The problem comes from the absence of things to do

[hazy ferry]

Even legacy sucks without it i like to see what other people are up to

People complaining people raging,cute baba etc…

Global is how i made most of my friends in the isle

[urban flax]

It ruins immerdsion

[limber hull]

i always turned global off in legacy

whinefest extraordinaire

[hazy ferry]

Then they should remove ai animals because you cant even tell whats real or not#

[limber hull]

if i wanted to listen to people whine and cry i'd visit a preschool

[limber hull]

?

[low canopy]

global gave me more reasons to log back to the game (community), but devs have made their mind about not even giving the option,
all we can do is wait patiently for this QOL mod

[hazy ferry]

^

Theres no sense of community in the game

[limber hull]

eh, it was always better in sandbox

it should remain a sandbox thing

made sense for the sandbox with no stakes to not care about who talks to who

[hazy ferry]

Its also dumb that you cant inv friends or check what server you are on and its pop

[limber hull]

you can do all of those things

lmao

[paper oriole]

you can see the server youre on in your character menu

[hazy ferry]

Yeah but you have to 2 call next to them

[limber hull]

so?

do that

[hazy ferry]

Unnecessary

[limber hull]

at literally no point has "needing to 2 call a mate" ever been an issue

[limber hull]

so is global

[hazy ferry]

Evrima will never grow if this kind of community

Have fun with ur dead game

[limber hull]

I will

I'm having more fun than I ever had with legacy

[low canopy]

game badly needs group spawn option that could be used amongst steam friends or something, it can be very painful for newer players to fnd each other on map and making the start even more obnoxious

[limber hull]

i dont need a chat room attached to my dinosaur game to enjoy it

because if you remove global, you realise it's just a distraction from how bad legacy actually is lmao

[limber hull]

hopefully something like that can come with nesting

too late

brain fried lmao

should head to bed now lmao

[hazy ferry]

The game feels like a sandbox

[dense vale]

kinda agree

[hazy ferry]

An empty one

[urban flax]

Early Access moment

[hazy ferry]

I often run around for hours not finding a single person

[dense vale]

eventually copium, well have a map with biomes, some community aspect back, more mechanics, more playables

[limber hull]

i once ran around a 100 player legacy server for an entire 2 hours never seeing a fucking soul. EVRIMA has life at least lmao

i can consistently find people in EVRIMA. In legacy, you were either at the special lake everyone wanted to be at or in the dark zone

it was like oasis before oasis

[hazy ferry]

There are multiple hot spots in legacy twins,trike mountain,port,great falls,aviary,swamp,northern river

All over the map

Theres almost nothing interesting in evrima

[dense vale]

spiro need alot of work to actually feel "designed" and not "generated"

[low canopy]

i think spiro has potential and some amazing locations, its just they are often put to god knows where and wont be used
listing couple:
arch falls
old shallows
west coast and its caves
south pond
south waterfall
south east swamp
warehouse
radio tower
and the list goes on, its just they are underutilised

map also lacks clear path ways to move about, distances are far too great, like how many actually find their way to west coast ever

[dense vale]

v3 being bowl shaped with lots of places too look out and see where things are helped alot

traveling spiro im lost, cant see where anything is, hidden death fall all over, and i get punished by diets if i explore

[hazy ferry]

i agree diet system is kinda dumb thank god cerato wont be affected by it

i like it for herbis but not for carnivores

doesnt make sense meat is meat

[dense vale]

i was speaking as herb, i never play carni except sometimes bird or i like austro but its not in

[manic flint]

Plant is plant

[warm flame]

I can't believe that SwisherSweet183 wants The Isle to add The Isle

[hazy ferry]

different plants give different nutrients but meat is meat 🍖

i doubt a 5 ton dinosaur cares what kind of meat it eats lmao

[warm flame]

I think that it should be different organs that give different diets

[hybrid tiger]

I really liked the types of meat suggestion let me find it

#general-feedback message

[manic flint]

There is a reason most animals don't prey on carnivores, they provide different nutrients and carnivore meat has a lot of unhealthy heavy metals

[hybrid tiger]

Like you still get nutrients from eating anything just you know what gives more of what

[manic flint]

So meat =/= meat
Plant =/= Plant

[hazy ferry]

🍖

[manic flint]

We have to deal with the system
Both groups

[warm flame]

ok yeah that's a real good one

[dense vale]

id think you walk up and be like, eat meat, eat fat, eat liver as options, but i dont really play carni so not my place to say

[hazy ferry]

i like that

makes much more sense

[warm flame]

eat heart

[icy lion]

Gore is planned to be entwined with carnivore diets once it's added

[hybrid tiger]

I hope they do something similar to that suggestion

[paper oriole]

Wtf if you upsize magy to be bigger than allo it isnt even magy

Just replace it with a better sauropod

[pulsar smelt]

Not the same for fish, amphibians, avians,reptiles.... just mammals :)

[ashen wasp]

I mean. Different carnivores are adapted for consuming flesh with different levels of fat, muscle, etc. depending on what their prey has evolved to exhibit. Fairly sure I remember hearing somewhere that big cats are able to consume animals with levels of fat that would quickly give something like a human being a heart attack.

But yeah larger animals can’t afford to be as picky

[pulsar smelt]

Predatory animals CAN consume other predators.. it's just all about the specific animals biology. Jaguars eat cayman. Snakes eat other snakes, coyotes eat cats and dogs, shit, even herbivores will consume meat. Hippos eat meat, and even horses sometimes, deer too.

They called tertiary consumers

Blue whales are carnivores even

So size doesn't matter tbh

But the main reason carnis in nature generally don't eat other carnis is 1) it's dangerous and 2) transmission of disease.

But ya a vast majority of irl carnivores do eat a percentage of other carnivores :)

[wicked osprey]

welcome to carno flight school

[paper oriole]

Man that plant suggestion sound annoying as fuck ngl

Herbivores already tedious as all hell, have to stop to sniff and walk annoying distances at a slow pace to preset destinations. Then it would just be annoying “ugh jts just one of those plants again”

Changyuraptor is superior to archaeopteryx in every way

Changyu is smaller than herrera, hes just the best arboreal glider option

[manic flint]

Wasn't the reason they couldn't sniff while walking was to prevent them hunting, but now we can't even smell blood? What is stopping us from sniffing while moving now

[paper oriole]

Plot twist the devs just dont want herbis walksniffing because of spite

[manic flint]

[signal beacon]

Ah yes just what we need. More carnivores!

[paper oriole]

Deadass, carni scent was always better than herbis, so the devs made carni scent even better and herbi scent even worse

Tell me how that makes sense

[signal beacon]

Easy. Carnivore big strong and scary! Herbivore eat plant and therefore is weak and are just worse carnivores!

[paper oriole]

Probably the devs when continuously making the decision to mot let herbis walksniff

“Herbivores, the already consistently slower moving faction, needs to stop to sniff to make themselves vulnerable sometimes!”

“You dont need to move to sniff plants, they dont run!”

Quality of life is very important

[manic flint]

We should be able to sniff blood at least bruh

[paper oriole]

And walk-sniffing is a quality of life perk

[signal beacon]

Just embrace the fact that herbivores will always come second and turn them all into static ai for the carnivores to ragdoll

[paper oriole]

The removal of that was such massive bullshit

Like i cant smell a massive bloodshed battlefield

Hey what is with you and shit

[signal beacon]

...excuse me?

[pulsar smelt]

Tell me more then

[signal beacon]

That's it. The isle is being closed.

No more isle

[paper oriole]

I mean i explained why, all it does is make things more tedious

Its a feature that would get old and annoying after the first or second runin

[signal beacon]

Let's play The Mainland

[pulsar smelt]

You'd have visuals carni plants are very obvious, just avoid those like you avoid other things imo

[paper oriole]

People think ”haha funni carnivorous plants” but they dont stop to think about how that would just be nothing but a nuisance if it was actually added

[pulsar smelt]

Everything in the game is a nuisance

[paper oriole]

Hypsis dont really suffer if they die anyway its literally just a hypsi lol

[paper oriole]

But why add something that serves no purpose but to be a nuisance

[pulsar smelt]

You lose nothing as a hypsi atm

[paper oriole]

nO!!!!!!!!!

Skunk magy better

[pulsar smelt]

Because nothing is safe in a game with dinos.. they already have stuff in that's meant to kill you (logs that feed you off cliffs ) so it's not like it would be anything extra by too much.

Also plants would be in very specific areas.

But I do understand

[paper oriole]

So they'd immediately become useless and redundant

No!!!!!!!!!!¡!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!!

[signal beacon]

BoB ptera

[low canopy]

carni plants are such a broad concept, i'm sure it could be pulled off in satisfactory way while making herbivore life less uninteresting

[dense vale]

are the carni plants playable

[barren zephyr]

[paper oriole]

I want a playable plant it sounds funner than current juv herbivore gameplay

[pulsar smelt]

Some animals could benefit from the plants, like being immune to the toxins and being able to eat the plant or the bodies in / near it

[paper oriole]

Playable cliff the true apex predator

[pulsar smelt]

Bush simulator

[barren zephyr]

I want to play as air

[signal beacon]

Playable game

[paper oriole]

https://tenor.com/view/stop-it-get-some-help-gif-15058124

[barren zephyr]

the fact that we have to rely on individual plant species for certain nutrients is BS

[paper oriole]

Right??? I made a big fat doc suggestion about this

[barren zephyr]

or actually we just need more food plant diversity

[paper oriole]

I doubt the devs even peeked at my doc lol

[barren zephyr]

Dont even peek things typed in the discord chat

[paper oriole]

Yeah i think they just ignore feedback almost entirely

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rtKpR97Z_JH-qnncmlDkodVHLtodr61-OU3QnUiR7Sw/edit?usp=sharing

Doobt they read this wall of text

[signal beacon]

They read it they just take 600 million years to use it. And then they forget about it

[pulsar smelt]

I suggested to make the herbie diet as a juvi like the carnis. But it was down voted.

It's annoying that they can eat anything till 50 and get nutes but herbies have to stick to the preferred diet regardless

[barren zephyr]

At least herbis doesnt need to hunt their food and cant get kill by it

[paper oriole]

Hopefully carni diet problem is fixed with gore but that still leaves herbi diets being stupid

[barren zephyr]

hmm

[dense vale]

i dont want a free ride, just achievable while still being able to explore and nest ect.

[paper oriole]

Who is still getting killed by boars as a carni. Boars and sea turtles are free trips to adulthood

[pulsar smelt]

It's stupid how baby herbies can't eat any plant and get nutes till 50% but carnis can eat any meat till 50% lol

[barren zephyr]

Before getting killed by ai you have to find it first

[paper oriole]

Carnis can full up fight before they hit 50 again too to continue the free ride for a while

[paper oriole]

Effortless

[barren zephyr]

Decrease to 25%

[paper oriole]

Also tons of bodies around

I consistently spawn at southwest and effortlessly obtain full food and afk in a bush

Praying mantis crunchy snack

Arthropleura when

[barren zephyr]

Is a herbi

[paper oriole]

Just pretend its a venomous centipede

Probablt just ate plants and dead shit but it is the isle it can eat you too

[barren zephyr]

They have to nerf elden ring bosses, they have more chances to kill me than i have to kill them

[paper oriole]

Thats why it is a boss

And you are maidenless

[barren zephyr]

what about adding opossums or raccoons as AI?

[paper oriole]

Opossums are kinda helpless

[barren zephyr]

came out of nowhere ik

[barren zephyr]

hmm yeah actually

[paper oriole]

Foxes are better because they can haul ass

[barren zephyr]

or actually they can climb n shit

[paper oriole]

Id feel bad about the poor opossum ai lol

[barren zephyr]

also realistically they could survive as they reproduce fast and live fast as well

[paper oriole]

They certainly die fast

Very short life span, surprisingly short. But they do have large litters

Its sad

I hope they reveal something good that ovi has that makes it unique

[barren zephyr]

Yes

[paper oriole]

Rn it just looks like juvi galli gameplay because galli runs and eats eggs too

Maybe let ovi sprint while crouched for better stealth while covering its tracks or something

Anything

Ovi deserved mimicry even if troo gets it too, ovi would have had good use for it

Yeah so ovi is kinda redundant as “mister egg thief”

[pulsar smelt]

I feel like ovi should be able to jump higher and maybe glide down from trees?

[paper oriole]

Uhhhhh

[barren zephyr]

No

[paper oriole]

Yes

[pulsar smelt]

Not like how you think

Less than a chicken I'd say?

[paper oriole]

Devs said a lot of things are gonna be eating eggs. Dont have to be an “egg eater” to eat eggs, to be specific with the statement

[barren zephyr]

But wont give them nitrient and will give shit food to big ones

[paper oriole]

Galli will get nutrients from it

Deer ai eating baby hypsi

[barren zephyr]

Yes, but he is supposes to eat eggs, other wont get nutrients just shit amount of food

[paper oriole]

Yes

[paper oriole]

That isnt certain yet at all

[barren zephyr]

No, but is obvious

[paper oriole]

And it still leaves the problem of ovi just being a midget galli

[paper oriole]

Nope. Lots of predators who logically may yet get eggs in their diet options

Like pteranodon

[barren zephyr]

But ovi will depend nore in eggs than galli, with ovi you will have to eat constantly and with galli you can just eat them when you find some, but are not forced to eat eggs

[paper oriole]

So ovi is just a worse galli still

You havent suggested otherwise yet

[barren zephyr]

They are nothing in common, just getting nutrients from eggs

[paper oriole]

I sant galli to pick up babies and throw them like a basketball

[paper oriole]

Flighty egg eating omnivore. One is smaller, one is bigger

Ovi has nothing unique revealed for it yet

Nothing that makes it worth pickinng aside from liking the animal itself

Galli has good arms so it wouldnt make sense for it to have less use for them than ovi

NO!!!!!!!!!!!¡

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!¡¡!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh well

[barren zephyr]

Ovi is not just little galli, ovi will surely have it easy to steal eggs by something devs will do

[paper oriole]

Empty speculation

We have ovi's concept and there is nothing on it that suggested a unique ability. The devs have not said anything about it either

I hope it gets one, ovi is one of my favorite dinosaurs, but i am ready for disappointment

Masochists will play magy

Yes

Consistent disappointment

[barren zephyr]

Ok, galli has weak jaw and cant hold eggs with hands so it has to stay near the nest to eat eggs like it was a plant, but ovi can carry eggs so he can go eat them safe?

[paper oriole]

Same i can be a masochist with a better dino

[paper oriole]

Why cant galli hold eggs with its hands? It has good arms and hands

[sacred yacht]

Hopefully next update helps deino out a bit.

[barren zephyr]

Cause this is the isle and things doesnt have to make physical sense to happen

[sacred yacht]

Yes

[paper oriole]

And how will being able to hold a soecific food item make ovi worth playing. Also plants and meat chunks are carryable so i doubt eggs will magically not be carryable

[barren zephyr]

More?

Is not a river everyone has to cross enough?

[sacred yacht]

Check my last 2 feedback opinions

[barren zephyr]

You die

[paper oriole]

2lazy link them

[sacred yacht]

Oh well

[dense vale]

wait are you gonna be able to eat your own eggs. infinite food glitch

[barren zephyr]

Yes, your own balls

[paper oriole]

I doubt you could without suffering consequences

[low canopy]

trash diet

[paper oriole]

And they could easily bypass such an exploit by making reproduction drain resources

[barren zephyr]

Eggs will be hard to do enought that wont be worth makin them just to eat them

[sacred yacht]

To sum up my feedback I just said Deino needs more oxygen, tail physics, and better resting animation

[paper oriole]

I guess i dont see the problem with this

Seems like basic quality of life upgrades

[barren zephyr]

More oxygen so it can ambush under water for more time? No please, you already have it easy enough

[sacred yacht]

I think deino is balanced and in a good state minus the oxygen

[paper oriole]

Cease

[sacred yacht]

You only have 4 minutes and 30 seconds of oxygen as a 100% adult. You don't have enough time to stalk and ambush something

[barren zephyr]

Abort mission, no eggs

[paper oriole]

A dino abortion would just be like Stepping on the egg lol

[sacred yacht]

The oxygen also doesn't scale with growing and from 1-100% the oxygen amount is the same

[barren zephyr]

People usually goes to drink when they are very low on water, 4 30 is enough

[paper oriole]

Galli picking up eggs with its arms and just chucking them in a river

Throw the eggs at the parents and run away

[sacred yacht]

It's really not, play deino for awhile and you will understand

[paper oriole]

Imagine ovi can steal eggs and then hatch them and group different species together that would be so broken lol

[sacred yacht]

My feedback post got 76 checks and no one against it

[barren zephyr]

i've played deino before prepatch, it was easy

[paper oriole]

N o

[barren zephyr]

Most people don't know more oxygen will give them much more advantage

[paper oriole]

n O

[barren zephyr]

Better save them in your stomach, when they are prepared you throw up

[sacred yacht]

Yes but they're an ambush predator. IRL a Croc can hold its breath for 30 minutes or more depending on conditions. 4 minutes is not long enough. The only way you have as hiding as a deino is the water. So from your first moment spotting some prey you have 4 minutes for them to check the water and drink.

[dense vale]

im waiting for someone to put teampoop in thier name

[paper oriole]

you know the saying. if you want somethig done right, do it yourself

[barren zephyr]

For how many minutes are you asking?

[sacred yacht]

I've also played with lots of people that know this and just sit next to the water for 5 minutes or so until they see the deino surface for air

[signal beacon]

Oh noes! Deino has counterplay!?

[sacred yacht]

I feel like a balanced amount would be 4 minutes as a juvi - 6-8 minutes as a sub - 7-10 minutes as a adult

[paper oriole]

[barren zephyr]

Oof, then make a cue that deino is there once in a while, is not fair you are completely unnoticed

Or make more shallow parts

[sacred yacht]

That's the whole point though, deino only has water as a good hunting area. Slow on land so it can't chase anything down. - You should always expect a deino to be in the water.

[urban flax]

I know this has nothing to do with the current topic but...
Bruh insects 1/4 the size of Hypsi ? That'd be 5 kg bugs
Suggestions are going wild these days

[sacred yacht]

Problem with shallow drinking areas they attract everyone then it just becomes a massive lag fest

[dense vale]

theres many many miles of river, feel like if you choose to drink at a popular spot its just the risk you take

[paper oriole]

no i am Mira

[sacred yacht]

Exactly, whenever I play a land dino I always try to drink from less popular areas

[barren zephyr]

All I'm hearing is buff deino and maje drinking a 100% risk

[sacred yacht]

It's not 100% that a deino is there. more like 50/50

My other suggestion was tail physics and the rest animation not have your head sticking up into the sky. Just laying flat like a real crocodile would

[signal beacon]

The open mouth looking to they sky thing is actually what crocs do in order to rest and cool off. So it makes sense. I just dont like how fast its head moves while its resting and you turn the camera

[bronze pike]

it seems pretty cool

but no debuffs should be given

[topaz plaza]

@naive stone every time you need the nutrient you'd have to trust your life to some random dude on the internet and hope he doesn't kill you for fun, which a lot of players do. Huh? this is a terrible idea

[paper oriole]

punishing deinos with lower biteforce if no pteras around have the nads to come down and pick its teeth. punishing ptera players by tying a nutrient to picking the teeth on a hungry predator that will oneshot them

if anything like this was added, it would be best if it was nearby compies coming by to pick teeth on deinos if they rest for a while

but the deino shouldnt be punished, it should be an aesthetic thing

[topaz plaza]

yes, this too. This implies that you'd always be able to find the other species, but that's not the case on empty servers, or, as the dino roster increases, you'll find a single species harder to find

yea doing this with compys could be cool

[paper oriole]

we already have compy ai so if it would come up and harmlessly nip at deino teeth and then scatter if the deino moves it would just be a cosmetic feature that adds some life to the game

[naive stone]

Considering the deinos would benefit from it (as if they didn't have the ptera, obviously stated) I would assume it'd be more likely they'd be more friendly. Another thing would be to use AI pteras to do the job, too, like what was just mentioned, just instead of compys pteras. But yes, there would be a sense of danger to it for pteranodons - as there is realistically with modern day crocs and birds.

[paper oriole]

just utilizing the already existing compy ai just seems better and also to not punish anyone for not taking part in the symbiotic relationship

[honest sparrow]

Bro did I seriously just do my random general feedback check to find a shit suggestion

[paper oriole]

imagine how awful ptera ai would be, considering how bad the elite fish ai was when it fled, and how much the land ai runs in to water and in to obstacles

ptera ai would be crashing in to shit constantly and never make it anywhere lmao

[topaz plaza]

ok firstly there is no ptera AI and there won't be, secondly, realism alone isn't a good enough reason to put something in the game

[paper oriole]

deino shouldnt rely on ptera players to help it with some toothache

and if it is just cosmetic then pteras are still gonna have no reason to risk it

it either punishes deino or it punishes ptera or both and thats kinda just bad

[naive stone]

Eh it's just a suggestion

[thorny lynx]

Returning for another reminder... f r o g

[manic flint]

F r o g

Literally the best recieved feedback in existence

[ashen wasp]

(Egyptian Plovers don’t actually clean crocodiles’ teeth. I do like the idea of mutualism though, particularly for Compy)

[manic flint]

Beipi actually looks pretty decent and sounds good

[still needle]

not sure if its still a thing but if you cling to the side while in water and look straight up and hold space you can take off

[gusty patrol]

depends how much stam you have left

but on most rocks you can swim up, or theres a section at south if that was the area, where you can walk on the wall- like not steep enough to fall off of it

[limber hull]

@topaz plaza planned with gore

[topaz plaza]

How's gore gonna affect the herbivores?

[limber hull]

herbis will get changed when they get changed

they could get changed next update. Doubtful they're staying as they are

the whole running around forever thing is silly

[topaz plaza]

yea i agree but are you saying the devs confirmed a change or you just guessing?

[topaz plaza]

@potent arrow there is counterplay. If you run around randomly in the same area, the footprints become a jumbled mess, making it very hard to tell which ones lead to which. i've done this multiple times and it always works

[vital stone]

Having buttons show up on my screen in a mini game like fashion would be pretty immersion breaking.

[barren zephyr]

@silver rose widing rivers more is too much, you are asking for 90% of getting killed by a deino, also no one would go to those places

[vital stone]

Yes I have, but I'm not a big fan of the idea of a mini game like thing that flashes buttons on my screen 🤷‍♀️

[barren zephyr]

@potent arrow they just have to put river wallowing back, just make worse than mud pit wallowing

[barren zephyr]

Wtf? Who had that awful idea?

[vital stone]

I do agree that it should be more engaging, but not in that way.

[barren zephyr]

Is like having a mini game for the females when they have to lay eggs

But why? It doesnt even make sense, moving your body to court females is effortless

Where did they confirmed it?

Yeah I know that, I mean I'm in this discord and I'm not blind

@barren zephyr most people that will court is because both want to make a nest, it doesnt makes sense that if the player of the male does it wrong they cant procreate, it would make you not feel you are the dinosaur because you cant choose if you accept the male or not, also I dont think 2 friends want to do that minigame evrytime, I know is simple and is what you dont want but i think is better something like the group invitation, male does the dance and then the female chooses to accept or decline

@tepid river one dev said theres going to be a family system, so I dont think you should worry about that

[potent arrow]

I don’t think river wallowing should ever come back. With deinos in the rivers, and later on other carnivorous semi aquatics to come, it would basically be a death sentence to wallow by rivers. Meaning that no one would do it.

[rare fractal]

@potent arrow So why do you think dinos shouldn't know what their own abilities do...

[potent arrow]

@rare fractal from what I understand the devs did this to prevent meta gaming or whatever you call it, so it doesn’t become a numbers game knowing exactly how many hit from something it would take to kill something.

[rare fractal]

If that's their intention then damage should be random... also that logic is absurdly stupid

[barren zephyr]

Theres unofficial servers where you can grow in a second and you can try things and get a good aproxination of how much damage, etc... The abilities do

[rare fractal]

Bite damage already exists as a stat you can view

So it's a selective af standard

[potent arrow]

Yeah I know. Some people will still try to fight out the numbers. It’s unavoidable. But I’d rather play the game having a not knowing the exact amount of damage I do but rather know that I’m dealing an believable amount of damage to something depending on what I’m playing as and what I’m fighting

[rare fractal]

But you don't, deino wouldn't realistically 6 shot a stego

[potent arrow]

But isn’t it in like newtons or something and not a concrete number in terms of how much damage is dealt?

[limber hull]

nope, that's outright how much damage is done

500N = 500 damage

[potent arrow]

Oh

[rare fractal]

Nah, Newtons don't equate to damage anymore, if that was how it still worked then deino only has twice the biteforce of an average human

[potent arrow]

Yeah cases like that don’t make sense. Which I hope changes

[rare fractal]

Well no damage values make sense, realistically a utah would 1 shot pretty much everything with a pounce or neck bite, carno would 1 shot utah dryo and teno (with a headshot), dryo would deal bleed damage with it's bite, ptera would deal considerably higher damage than it does now, a teno kick would 1 shot carno if hit in the head, a pachy headbutt would completely shatter the bones of anything it hit, it wouldn't just partially disable them they ain't getting back up. And deino would 1 shot literally everything.... it's a consistent standard that damage values aren't realistic whatsoever

Balance supercedes realistic effects of attacks unfortunately, they always will

and for good reason

[potent arrow]

I agree

[wooden mica]

plot twist, deino lunge is working as intended and thats why its not being changed

[barren zephyr]

@hasty obsidian any other kind of forest than jungle would work

I didnt asked for opinions

[limber hull]

what a shame

on the isle discord, you don't get to consent to opinions

[wooden mica]

ooh dramaaaa

[limber hull]

in literally what way is this drama

[barren zephyr]

I'm sure cerato is 5.5 playable, i just ask cause I'm desesperated

[limber hull]

im cracking a joke lmao

[wooden mica]

I was doing the same ya dingus

[hasty obsidian]

true

[topaz plaza]

@signal beacon if this creature is meant to hunt small prey alone it doesn't make sense to give him an ability to communicate better than others

[paper oriole]

A more accurate utahraptor should be less of a social animal than our jp raptor

[signal beacon]

Ik that's why I made it live in pairs

[paper oriole]

That special chat just seems kinda random on utahraptor

[signal beacon]

Idk I just thought itd be neat. And I thought it would be fitting cause of how our Utahraptor will likely be the most bird looking thing in the roster

Is there anything else wrong with it?

[paper oriole]

Not really, considerinn we have feathered dinos with beaks faces

Utahraptor would look more birdlike than our leather raptor but even a feathered velo would look more birdlike than that bulky beast

[signal beacon]

Yea

[paper oriole]

Or feathered austro if it isnt still a mutant

Like utahraptor would still not scream “bird” as much as the other smaller and more narrow snouted dromeosaurs

[signal beacon]

I kinda just thought itd fit its playstyle. I pictured it using that to coordinate with its partner without blaring its location to everyone

Is there anything wrong with the rest of it tho?

[paper oriole]

Dont really think so, utahraptor makes sense to still have a pin ability minus the large prey pouncing

And a more interactive pin doesnt sound bad

[signal beacon]

So should I just yeet the bird call thing?

[paper oriole]

Doesn’t really fit it, id even go as far as to say it fits velo more. Utahraptor works best as just a more bulky brawler ambusher with kickboxinng and pinning

[signal beacon]

A stationary kick that could put the little jp knockoff in its place would help it

Kinda like gallis kick but not shit

[paper oriole]

Yeah id say real utahraptor would overpower our jp raptor in an outright brawl

Would kick its shit in

[signal beacon]

Cause I also see pachys bulling it if it's only move was a pin

[paper oriole]

Our jp raptor seems best keeping its style of avoiding taking damage alltogether while more accurate utah could tank some more hits and deal more raw damage

[signal beacon]

@keen basin what about our pins are good rn? They are just straight up insta wins

[topaz plaza]

well either way they probably already have a good idea of what they wanna do with both the new and old raptors so

[keen basin]

Yeah to a small animal, a hypsi shouldn’t be able to escape an adult Utah pining it down lol, and for larger animals they can buck you off

But I like all of the other ideas!

[signal beacon]

If this irl utah can pin pachys then yes, we do need a struggle mechanic. Maybe not like the one I added but something interactive to make it not an insta kill. Once other smalls come in our current utah will be able to pin austro, mono, herra, and others. Its gonna become a big problem so imo we should start thinking of ways to rectify it

[keen basin]

Utah can pin pachys?

[signal beacon]

Irl Utah weighs around 600kg iirc

[keen basin]

Yeah

[signal beacon]

Pachy is 500kg

[keen basin]

Ah

So I could see a struggle mechanic there

[signal beacon]

I'm just saying pins and grabs and grapples will get very dumb if we dont do something about them being 1 shot snore fests

[paper oriole]

This is a certified prehistoric wildlife moment

[keen basin]

To a degree your right, but a 600 kg raptor pinning down a hypsi or dryo is fair

But pinning pachys needs to have a different mechanic

[signal beacon]

I mean hypsi would die from impact damage and dryo would have a chance but it's best bet is to stay where it belongs, in a field

[keen basin]

Yeah lol

[urban flax]

Yes Neovenator
Totally original, cool and useful medium-sized theropod for The Isle's roster

[keen basin]

I would like it

[signal beacon]

Oooh yay another mid/pseudo mid teir therapod carnivore

[keen basin]

But they can’t add that because then devs don’t get their Jurassic Park simulator lol

[signal beacon]

Our roster already consists of mostly therapods with half of those being carnivores

[keen basin]

Although some planned dinosaurs are unique

[paper oriole]

@warm burrow give reasons other than ‘favorite dino’ cus it costs a lot of money to add a new dino

Neo is basically midget allo

Sub allo gameplay

[keen basin]

I meant that they like to make JP rip off dinosaurs and to add a really original dino seems unlikely

But it could happen

[signal beacon]

At least utah has a unique playstyle that cant really be replicated by most of the roster. Neo is just allo/albert but small

[keen basin]

Yeah true

[paper oriole]

He even looks like an allo hes basically the allo version of the tarbosaurus meme

[keen basin]

Lol so true

[signal beacon]

I mean I dont think I have seem a bepi, cherry, realistic sucho, proto, austro, or dryo in the movies

[keen basin]

Yeah but all of the more well known dinosaurs are JP rip offs lol

[warm burrow]

thats reaqlly my only reason it doesnt have any good features about it other than long er forelibs like an allo and crests ive just rarely seen anyone talk about it or seen it in games so i just wanted to put it out there. ik it takes a lot of time to make them i just hope maybe itle bee in one day

[warm burrow]

if i remember correctly its a relative of the rex

[keen basin]

Maybe it could have a more pride oriented allo playstyle that is mixed with a carnos

[signal beacon]

Our spino isn't even a jp ripoff anymore. It's a fucking kaiju

[paper oriole]

I just looked it up neo is an allo/catchar relative

[keen basin]

Very true but still

[signal beacon]

I'm pretty sure dinosaur planet has a more accurate spino in terms of looks

[keen basin]

Lol

[signal beacon]

Mfw hypo spino is more accurate than regular spino

[keen basin]

I would love a realistic spino with maybe a bit of a JP kinda head just to fit The Isle but what we have now is a monster

[warm burrow]

nvm its part of the carcharodontosaurids

[paper oriole]

And its obvious its an allosaur by its looks even without looking it up. Did you really not know the family of your fav dino

Carchar is an allo relative, neo is one too

[keen basin]

Lmao

[paper oriole]

We have like 3 allosaurs in game

Maybe 4 if they make their carchar a skin for giga

[warm burrow]

tbf last time i looked up ab my favorite was a while ago.i tend to mix up some info on the dinos i like smh

[paper oriole]

His v shaped double crest that ends right before his eyes is a dead giveaway for most likely being an allosaur

[warm burrow]

true

[signal beacon]

If anything we need more herbis. Although our roster genuinely needs to be purged because holy shit I've never seen so much roster bloat in an attempt to get all the big names while also having obscure ones

[paper oriole]

More herbis? grappler Iguanadon and fruit bat tupandactylus moment (please doind)

[keen basin]

I would like to see a Cryolophosaurus

[signal beacon]

What would it do?

[paper oriole]

He would cry and his tears would be venomous

[urban flax]

Cryo would serve as food for magy

[signal beacon]

Dinosaurs when they dont have anything unique: VENOM

[keen basin]

It would have a solo, nomadic life style and hunt like a mix of bears and foxes

[signal beacon]

So... Alberto

[paper oriole]

A megaraptoran could be unique i think. A megaraptoran and prestosuchus are the only two carnis i can think of immediately that could be valid additions

[urban flax]

Bary

[paper oriole]

Megaraptorans have very nice arms

[paper oriole]

True bary has nice arms too

[urban flax]

Our bary is literally a megaraptor who can fish

[signal beacon]

Didn't megaraptor have opposable digits?

[paper oriole]

Australovenator had almost pronated wrists

[keen basin]

No, it would be like an agile fast hunter with big powerful claws and jaws

[urban flax]

So... allo

[signal beacon]

Tribals wen the megar picks up their spear:

[paper oriole]

I think australovenator and some tiny dromeosaur had the most flexible wrists of any theropods discovered iirc

[urban flax]

If we were to add yet another theropod, I would like balaur or changyuraptor. Maybe upsized versions of them.

[paper oriole]

But since the isle already messes with dino wrists it means little

[paper oriole]

Damn i straight up forgot about those two and i always advocate for them lmao

[keen basin]

It wouldn’t latch on tho it would stalk prey and then essentially just lacerate them and take chunks of flesh from living prey. Kinda just eat them alive. Or it could fit a hyena niche

[paper oriole]

However, balaur is an omni not a carni

A very nice omni

[urban flax]

So... herrera

[signal beacon]

Literally every niche imaginable has a carni for it. Or multiple

[keen basin]

No Herrera climbs and acts like a leopard

[paper oriole]

Not any arboreal gliders yet

[urban flax]

Maybe we could have more arboreal creatures tho
A bigger arboreal herbi than hypsi, and a bigger arboreal carni than herrera

[urban flax]

So cryo is worse herrera

I still say titanoboa would work as an arboreal apex

And nothing else

[signal beacon]

Dinosaurs were the animals that decided to just throw shit at the wall and see what sticks. Such as taco (and it somehow fucking stuck like cement)

[keen basin]

What how?

[urban flax]

Cause it can't climb

[paper oriole]

Herrera but it is morbidly obese and shops at walmart

Thats cryo

[keen basin]

Yeah but it isn’t at all like herrera tho?

[paper oriole]

Its basically just allo with a different crest

[keen basin]

Unless I am missing something I thought herrera was supposed to climb and then latch onto big animals and kinda just climb around on them

[paper oriole]

Herrera was shown ripping off a chunk in his concept

So he may be a flesh grazer + he can climb. Vs cryo who is just a weaker allo that for some reason flesh grazes

[signal beacon]

Itd be nice if it pinned down smalls and flesh grazed larger animals crossing through the jungle

Like little fucking gnats

[keen basin]

Ah I didn’t see that, ok then makes sense lol cryo is just that but can’t climb lmao

I could see Yuty tho, it would kinda fit the niche of like a badger/hyena

[signal beacon]

Cera already does that

Like I said. Literally everything is full

[keen basin]

Does it? I thought it was like a mini allo

[signal beacon]

No it's a scavenger/corpse bully with a nasty bite and amazing durability for a little shit

[keen basin]

Ah that makes sense

[keen basin]

Wow, is a burrowing carnivore taken?

[signal beacon]

Velo is likely to have some primitive burrowing

[keen basin]

Cool that’d be fun

Like a weasel lol

[jagged jewel]

megalania

[lyric spoke]

I must be the only person that thinks courting should have an element of gift-giving, itd be ironically less goofy than the courting we've seen so far

[paper oriole]

Ive brought this up multiple times in feedback it would be nice if some dinos gave gifts instead of doing a dance. Some dinos should demonstrate strength instead of doing a dance too. I hate seeing them slap a lazy dance animation on every dino so far

It looks stupid af on tenonto and stego's dance is just plain bad and looks like they arent even trying lol. Utahs was stupid too its showing off its bald ass arms

[lyric spoke]

Lmaoooo

[paper oriole]

Would be nice if the male stego could flare the color on its plates and maybe do a little side profile jiggle

i had another idea for tenonto maybe i should draw it and put it in suggestions but the devs wont pay attention lol. theyd rather have animals with showy features and distinct personalities break their necks or slightly shift their body weight

pachy court will probably be it breaking its own leg or something

considering their track record so far

[unborn lance]

The issue with courtship is that it's a multiplayer system. You can't gameify it too much without inconveniencing players who just want to group up with friends. I think additional systems must be based around impressing the female player. Not a system.
For example "play fights" to show off a player's skill or even obtain alpha status. Allow males to build nests and decorate them or store them with food. The skin system could include a few more options for vibrant highlights on males. Less camo = more skill needed for survival.

[paper oriole]

for magy's court it should have a breath holding competition until both of them die

[paper oriole]

a sort of play fight is what i had in mind for tenonto, with different scenarios for male on male or male on female. males being a grappling fight where you try to knock the opponent over, and the female is just an offer to lock arms

i dont know why but i can easily see tenontos locking arms and duking it out similar to kangaroos

some other animal does it too that ive seen but i dont remember which

yeah like that lol

the males trying to shove eachother to the ground, a harmless game, it could maybe cost stamina but they dont hurt eachother

just a shw of strength

idk about it being like spiders, since the wrestle would just be for male vs male, on females it would be a more passive thing

against competing males it would be a fight to show who is the bigger chad

on trikes it could be something similar. a male and female could tap their horns in a smaller side to side gesture but males could also grapple eachother with their horns in a more aggressive but not deadly duel

so it is one mechanic but two different ways it can eb used

yeah kinda

some theropod could have something like the open jaw fighting

um. dont question it

[dense vale]

feel like if you make it too complicated and competition it will make bad behavior and loser griefs them or something

[paper oriole]

not really, people already grief eachother for literally any other reason

already, i can see normal court dances being used to dance on top of bodies so its nothing worse

yeah i can see it being used for that more than its used for courting already

court ship dancing on top of a body while you bodyguard

ptera already spams 1 call

[unborn lance]

That's why a courtship should just be a means of saying "do you accept me?" While other systems should be optional and used more for immersion

[paper oriole]

same skins are already gonna be a decisive feature if they affect the offspring

[unborn lance]

They'll probably go the easy route of selecting random colours and patterns from each parent.

[signal beacon]

Its buggy. And so is utah, and teno, and pachy, and dryo, and hypsi, and all the main mechanics, and... fuckin hell

[paper oriole]

the isle

[signal beacon]

The Isle. You won't fix it.

It

[paper oriole]

Reads “map”, instantly downvotes 😎

[signal beacon]

[dense vale]

main reason i dont want it now is cause theyl feel like they can spread stuff out even more lol

[paper oriole]

We need better landmarks not a map

[signal beacon]

We need a map so we can plan out clan battles like in BoB

[dense vale]

but serious note, its a type of suggestion where i agree with most of the problems but not the solution, to me the solution is more get rid of the problems in the first place, rather than accept it sucks and slightly fix with something else

[warm quartz]

Sorry for suggesting it I guess?

[tight oxide]

That means its always calling for its lost mate...

[dense vale]

i also apply my last comment to the herb juvi diet suggestion, i want to interact with a diet system, it just needs to be more reasonably achievable. i dont like the idea of making the few things you can do in the game so rare that you have to make it not apply, thats losing mechanic interaction

[tight oxide]

make juv herbis get all 3 nutrients from one diet plant ggez

[bold palm]

@obtuse obsidian you do know they can hear you right? If you are resting you make breathing noises and if you just sat down you scent trail would also be there. Try crouching instead to mitigate that problem and don't move around or you will leave scent. I don't know what you've experienced though and maybe you are being hacked on sometimes, but I have rarely experienced anything where someone just runs up on me, just one time and I reported it immediately to the admin. They came on and tracked them down. You might also try going to a spot that is less known and well hidden where a hacker may not go. ? Anyway, good luck.

@obtuse obsidian also if you are streaming sometimes people will find you if you reveal your location and server. Stream sniping is definitely a thing. peace.

[ember chasm]

💙

[limber hull]

that's how troodon is meant to be played so

[manic flint]

enough to kill 1 pachy

[last lily]

Such is the way of the Skaven

[manic flint]

bruh first time playing carno since u2 and i am starving to death cause i cant eat for some reason

i tried logging but now the server is full

[barren crater]

@coral swan What do you mean by change animations? Allo already has new animations for evrima?

[coral swan]

Oh my you are right...completely forgot.. gonna cry now Q_Q

[barren crater]

Also I'm assuming they'll keep the calls and just up the quality of it to match evrima

[barren crater]

Tbf allos new animations look better imo. Although I'm assuming it's different for you lmao

[limber hull]

allo does look really good in the new anims, i dont think anything about legacy animations look that good. The ambush looks fucking stupid lmao

[coral swan]

No, it's not "different" for me, I just hate it ^^ I've learnt animation so I'm picky about movement.

[barren crater]

I like the way allo holds out its arms to try to hug you though. I want that when allo tries to use its ability lmao

[limber hull]

eh, i always thought it looked silly

i never liked it

new allo animations look really good, decent weight to them and look actually speedy

[barren crater]

Allos legacy animations look stiff in comparison. It actually looks like it can run and turn rather than that laid back legacy run it had. Heck even the trot looks active https://youtu.be/aTnXdFgGPHY?t=25

[limber hull]

yea idk how people can dislike those anims, they look weighty and grounded in reality. The animal doesn't look like it's doing some insane shit out of it's weight capabilities

[coral swan]

Walk looks better, trot looks like it's when a human walks like moving the same arm with the leg, run is..meh..they pretty similar

[limber hull]

that trot tho lmao

allo is probably going to be an insane endurance/ambush with that trot

[barren crater]

I mean it depends on what it has to contend with

[coral swan]

and now imagine the juvie moving its leg only half way in and with 1000% speed cause this is what will happen

[limber hull]

???

[coral swan]

seen pachy carno utah recently in evrima?

[barren crater]

Juvie animations will be different for allo based on what bryan said in 2020

[limber hull]

pachy was changed because people wouldn't shut up about it. No clue what's wrong with carno or utah

[coral swan]

oof okay then 😂

[barren crater]

Everything will have different juvie animations, that was the issue with legacy

[limber hull]

id honestly give allo pretty bad stam for sprinting in ambushing, but a decent trot speed so it can keep up with stuff like stego in endurance hunts

[barren crater]

Also depends where it mainly hunts. Allo with low stam is fine with a trot speed similar to that (Who knows how fast that trot is, but it looks too fast imo)

[limber hull]

Trot looks insane

its quite literally a jog

[barren crater]

I wouldn't be surprised if that's one of the fastest trots in the game

[coral swan]

the trot is not fast, it's unbalanced looking

[limber hull]

what

[barren crater]

Let me just say, that allo running animation you're looking at is 52kph. So if you compare (probably a bad way to do it?), it is pretty fast for what its meant to be- a trot

So technically allos animations let it run up to 52kph but they'll never allow that lmao

For good and obvious reasons

[limber hull]

probably yea

honestly im kind of a fan of endurance trot-down allo with dogwater stamina but a fast sprint in ambushes

also give it pretty garbo swim speeds pls

[barren crater]

Yeah I'm fine. Don't see an issue with that. Since it can traverse without having to run everywhere lmao

garbo swim is fine but imo it should (unless it does already?) scale with age.

but even if it doesn't, eh

[limber hull]

also mildly dogwater turn-rate. Not carno bad but not amazing either

[barren crater]

Running or turn in place?

I feel like brawlers should be great at turn in place

generally at lower speeds not just turn in place

[limber hull]

allo isnt a brawler tho

nor should it be

[barren crater]

I thought it was? I'm confused as to what it is then

[limber hull]

it's endurance/ambush bleeder animal

im not sure why it'd be a brawler

[barren crater]

Ah I guess yeah, but whats considered a brawler then? Like what traits would you need for that?

[empty epoch]

who knows

[limber hull]

brawler is something that's a tad more defensively oriented with a lot of combat potential and generally suffers in the speed department for that. The goal of a brawler should be to hit your opponent hard to make it go away or to delay before you make your getaway. Teno and pachy are brawlers.

[empty epoch]

Cerato

[limber hull]

cerato would be a good carnivore brawler, yea

[empty epoch]

yes

[limber hull]

its goal is to scare things away from bodies

which is best suited to a brawler

[rare fractal]

yes

mmmmm yes

[barren crater]

Ah. Makes a lot of sense when you put it like that

[rare fractal]

Stego: Brawler... technically

[limber hull]

i wouldn't define something like a stego as a brawler. It's kind of just "tank shit and hit hard". Its goal isn't even so much scaring off attackers as much as punishing them for even coming close.

Like it just kills things

[rare fractal]

Yeah, brawler implies some form of defensive mobility that isn't directly related to speed

Tank is a better term

[limber hull]

unlike pachy nor teno, which do a lot to "brawl" their opponent and have to assess the situation, stego can't do flexible things with its attacks or bait the opponent, stego is ENTIRELY defensive. It can rarely outrun, it almost always has to hit the thing till it stops moving\

hell, stego is outright immobile during its best move

[rare fractal]

Well until last patch, so was teno

[limber hull]

true as that may be, it did have over moves and it also had its "best move" still be not exceptionally lethal (on a single hit). The move could be comboed and had utility that allowed the rest of its kit to complement

Stego fucking swings the tail and the thing either dies or it doesn't

There's no intricacies to the combat style, it's an extremely static animal

[rare fractal]

Well I feel like lethality scales a bit too much to render that a categorizer for the term

Perhaps we don't tie tanks to having massively damaging attacks as much as it is a general limitation of mobility

cuz that omits teno from the category while maintaining tank as a definitive class

(yes, I am arguing the accuracy of arbitrary dino categories... this is what I consider entertainment xD)

[limber hull]

hmrg yes kos rules

always fun and never fucking annoying/stupid

[hybrid tiger]

Ye like if I’m surrounded by utahs as a pachy why should I be punished for going in first

[low canopy]

think for yourself sometimes, Imagine you were playing a herbivore and the initiative of showing agression was entirely removed from you, would it be fun?

[limber hull]

did you guys know that carnivores can both generally outrun and outstam herbivores, or have some other method of evading them?

its really incredible what you can do with a little bit of situational awareness and not wasting all your stam running up to a pachy herd

[hybrid tiger]

It’s almost as if you can run away from a fight and the isle isn’t a deathmatch

[limber hull]

god forbid!

[barren crater]

If there ever was a rule- the only 2 rules that should be implemented are no mixpacking, and pack limit rules

[limber hull]

or

no rules at all honestly

[barren crater]

or that

[urban flax]

@barren zephyr

I didn't think I would use this screenshot that often

[low canopy]

while its not an issue, the other extreme is just as bad aka death match

[urban flax]

Your opinion vs a dev's.

When saying "KOS is not an issue" he meant that they don't consider it a problem. It's literally intended as part of the game.

[dense vale]

you just have to find private servers with kind of rules you like, if thats still around. officials are supposed to be random free for all

[compact hare]

There are tons of servers with those rules
If not, the majority of big servers have them

[hybrid tiger]

Cope harder

[urban flax]

Why were you friendly with a stego in the first place

If there are no players on servers with those rules maybe that means these shouldn't be part of the base game...

[barren zephyr]

Literally carno is busted with it’s turn radius rn.

[urban flax]

If you don't want to meet toxic players, then the only solution is to not play online games

That's what balance is for, you're supposed to either be able to fight off or outrun pretty much everything else in the game

As a pachy, you can easily run away from a stego. As a Utah, you can run away from tenos

I don't see how that's relevant to KOSing now, that just sounds like a skill issue
And I'm not the kind of person to bring that up everytime someone complains about the game

[hybrid tiger]

@clear escarp you suggest stuff in #general-feedback and you ask stuff in probably #isle-discussion

[rose lily]

having bad situational awareness is your fault

[mint girder]

You could’ve ran

The teno isn’t very fast compared

You could’ve kept running without getting on a rock I don’t think the teno wouldve caught up

Why’d you hop off the rock then

[keen bough]

Ok well that's the game, stop complaining, sorry to be mean and brutal but that's life

[mint girder]

Yes you could stay on the rock and live

Teno can’t really climb

[keen bough]

Guys, this is situational we don't need herbis to not be able to attack, that's a silly idea,

What if a group of let's say para's were being stalked by allows, wouldn't it make sense for the paras to attack the allo? Or what about Oviraptor who steal eggs, if herbis can't attack then they can't do anything to protect? Use your brains man

Or to protect a bab? If it attacks the bab and not you you can't attack it

[mint girder]

I know

[keen bough]

It's a PvP online, survival game, you can't expect toxic peices of crap to not exist

[mint girder]

I wouldn’t consider teno killing Utah’s toxic

[keen bough]

Ofc it doesn't make sense, humans are A-holes and there is nothing you can do to change that

[mental marlin]

what im wondering is why are you letting those herbivores get anywhere near you in the first place

if you are playing a carnivore and you let the herbivore know you exist , you are already making mistakes

all of the current herbivores are slower then their carnivore counterparts so if you die to one its always 100% your own fault , so quit asking for moronic things like not allowing them to kill anything they want

[mint girder]

Doesn’t make it really toxic animals do that all the time

[urban flax]

Let's say it was just very well played of that Teno to manage to ambush a group of utahs

[keen bough]

Yeah like srlsy don't accociate herbis with peaceful, otherwise it will be the most fricking boring thing to play ever, let them be aggro. Let them play their own unique playstyle, that's what makes the game fun man!

[burnt bone]

@barren zephyr The issue with the suggestion about KOS herbies is that they kinda need to attack first. If pachy gets bit by a carno, that’s 1/4 of its hp and the carno is likely to hit another bite. Pachy has to go on the offensive to survive encounters. Pachy isn’t the only one either, tents lose the fight to carnos if they get rammed. And the suggestion just allows carnos to keep ramming until they hit the tent. Lastly, people in this game hate mixpacking, and this will force people to mixpack.

Yes, but how can it tell if you are friendly, or just trying to lure it in

Plus, I’m not talking about that specific scenario. People are just terrible and will kill for fun. I’m talking about the larger balance of the game.

Adding something that restricts offensive combat will restrict defensive combat

For example, Pachy’s turn nerfs while ramming takes away my main escape tactic, which was to turn and ram the face of who was chasing me.

[limber hull]

the turn nerfs are fine imho, works well for the attack and animal

[warm flame]

@jade schooner the spino's size compared to that rex was dondi scaling the rex to be like JP3 in size, this is (probably) the size we'll get for spino

https://preview.redd.it/ptt0jyhg2d171.png?width=3600&format=png&auto=webp&s=196c4a71aa353618c0bdf050783736f098766960

I think the size is fine, I think the design is overall really good, but I do wonder how it'd look if they edited the model

I also find it ironic how the hypo spino is more accurate in shape than the normal one

[jade schooner]

Same

But like you said, the overall design is really good. I really like it too

But just those little details (tail and leg length mostly) are really details that would make it stand out, aside from its humongous size, length and the sail

It comparison to the other theropod apexes

[stiff storm]

Can we get old pond + wallowing on water edges back

[barren zephyr]

This old

[warm flame]

what's the size now?

[barren zephyr]

TThis is the newest

[warm flame]

I want to see a fan edit of the evrima spino model to look accurate
something like this

[limber hull]

legacy spino looks awful

i hate it so much

[barren zephyr]

same

[warm flame]

I liked the legacy spino when it was first released, it worked then, fit in with the rest of the models and its stats fit it and it had some really nice skins

but now with how overtuned its stats are with it looking like a paperweight and the skin is just meh I don't like it much

[merry mantle]

[warm flame]

the tiny stubby legs look like it has like 0 thigh

[merry mantle]

Yeah lol

[warm flame]

sunken into the body

[merry mantle]

The base of the tail is really throwing me off

[dapper mirage]

My question is why limit creative freedom

[limber hull]

Giving complete player freedom leads to the fucking eyesore that is BoB. I’d rather no neon nightmare

[dapper mirage]

Well obviously say no to neons

But people are going to make horrendous skins regardless no matter what

It’s inevitable

[limber hull]

True but they won’t be pink so I take comfort in that

[dapper mirage]

I’m worried that they’ll just decide to delete every vibrant color because it seems like something this team would totally do

[limber hull]

Hypsi exists, so do troodon, those two are colourful af

[dapper mirage]

Like I’m really hoping we get some options for shades of red other than the weird half red/orange thing we have now

Based on how dodgy they’ve been about it I just get this feeling that the system is gonna be way too limiting

[odd sedge]

I agree that golds and stuff shouldnt be banned. But bright colors should not be included

[dapper mirage]

Granted I don’t KNOW but I have that gut intuition

man people really don’t want to see colors do they ☠️

[odd sedge]

Id rather have the bottom than the top

[dapper mirage]

Again I do not want neons

The neon green dilo crest in legacy is proof that that looks awful

But I’d love to see bright colors available in places other than male details so people have the option to blend more and be creative

And worst comes to worst just add a skin filter like BoB for the players who don’t want to see any bright colors no matter what

[paper oriole]

Why do those raptors have beaks wtf lol

[odd sedge]

Little me didnt know how to draw snoots when I made it, apologies

[paper oriole]

Proximity debuffs are heavily abusable

[signal beacon]

Have a fodder dino stand next to herbivore.

Debuff the herbivore

Have another carni come over and kill the now debuffed herbi

[urban flax]

Just with how he described it... Play carno
Make a pack with another carno
Have your friend greet the stego
Wait for the debuffs to come
Take his place and kill the stego without risk

[topaz palm]

@placid iron
"Combat: Combat is the only real fun thing to do in this game currently, so let's make Dryo a juvi-murdering machine."

This is completely unnecessary. If combat is the only thing you enjoy in the game, that's fine. But turning every playable into a combative creature is not a good move. Dryo could definitely use some love right now, but gearing it towards combat only narrows our available gameplay styles. Combat isn't the ultimate goal.

[paper oriole]

Exactly what i was thinking

Have one pack mate debuff the herbi, then the rest of the pack comes in to range for the attack

Not even herbi exclusive either, abuse a rex with a dryo, abuse an allo with a galli. It is just a trollbait mechanic

[signal beacon]

And then there is the "debuff herbivores for killing carnivores" one

[paper oriole]

Yeah thats a yikes

[signal beacon]

I'd love to put someone who thinks herbivores are pacifists into Africa and let them see what tries to kill them most
The lions and hyenas
Or all of the eternally pissed off herbivores

Cant wait until they find they study about omnivorous trike

[placid iron]

Oh no, dryo can kill juvies, the game is ruined

[dapper mirage]

Based

[low canopy]

nerfing shit animals like ptera and dryo into further irrelevancy is not much of plan either

unless plan is to have everyone play carno that is 🙂

[paper oriole]

ptera isnt that bad, but dryo is hella boring now and has been for a while

[signal beacon]

I can see why carno was buffed. Although I think it's just a bit too agile now, but nothing to serious. The problem arises from literally every other animal getting nerfed or broken and diets getting turned into... this

[rare stirrup]

broken game

[signal beacon]

Mfw the isle is somehow the most balanced and stable dino game atm

[dapper mirage]

Unless it’s something stupidly busted like stego, buffs are always better than nerfs

[paper oriole]

flat out buffs and nerfs often arent even the answer

[signal beacon]

Yea so Revert most of the herbis nerfs and see what happens. Carno still too strong? Fix diets. Still? Then think about nerfs. Although most of our animals would be viable if they... y'know... worked

[dapper mirage]

If anything I think carno should get even MORE buffs, but I’m in favor of buffing everything so that everything is stupidly good. Very hot take

Like 100 damage utah needs to be a thing

Mind you carno is fine as is currently

[signal beacon]

I mean other than stun spam carno had a really good spot last patch. Oasis and ease of food was just fucking it over. But now everything is broken

[dapper mirage]

But I think everything should be pushed to their absolute limit stat wise so everything feels super powerful

[paper oriole]

100 damage utah sounds like wed need to inflate health pools which isnt too great

[dapper mirage]

55 damage utah is lame and cringe

Having to inflate health pools is a good thing

[paper oriole]

inflated health pools and damage output becomes a problem later on

[signal beacon]

Stego gets more health

[paper oriole]

like whats next 500 damage allo with 4000 health?

[dapper mirage]

Honestly stego would be fine at 4K-4.5k

[paper oriole]

bruh

you want to buff damage and then nerf hp on large animals

[dapper mirage]

Well for one thing, the only large animal that isn’t deino is stego

[signal beacon]

Inflated stats are not the way to go at a certain point. Things would get beyond crazy

[paper oriole]

wed get to a point where mid tiers and large animals and smalls are too closely melted together

[dapper mirage]

Stego should have relatively low hp compared to other apex herbivores

[gaunt hinge]

Utah would be so much more viable to skilled players if they just gave it the update 3 acel back
That’s it
Or increased dismount that doesn’t allow it to get clapped every single time it lands it’s ability when it hops off

[paper oriole]

stego already takes extra head damage it is good enough

[dapper mirage]

Does the extra headshot damage matter right now? Cause it’s still unkillable

[paper oriole]

we dont need weirdly inconsistent health pools

[paper oriole]

thats not a hp problem

[signal beacon]

Remove stego
Remove deino
Fix the other animals
world peace

[paper oriole]

thats 1. shit ecosystem 2. utah pounce is jank as fuck

[dapper mirage]

It is partly an hp problem

[paper oriole]

not really

[dapper mirage]

Deino needs raw dps to kill steg

[paper oriole]

deino doesnt even need to be killing steg, but a fracture on his lunge would be good anyway

to head fracture steg and make it fuck off

or easier to take down

[dapper mirage]

Should a deinosuchus not hunt a stegosaurus?

[paper oriole]

not really its designed to drown mid tiers

thats why its got the weight bracket

[odd sedge]

Not really, no

[placid iron]

or give it the tug-of-war thing if a stego is stupid enough to go super deep in the water, currently no punish for that

[paper oriole]

fracture on the lunge would probably be fine enough

head fracture is annoying to have

so it would make them think twice

[gaunt hinge]

I remember the days when deino could actually kill cocky water stegos

[paper oriole]

was it the machine gun alt bite days

[dapper mirage]

I do not understand the argument of an 8 ton crocodile should not be able to hunt a 6 ton herbivore with a tiny head

[paper oriole]

i remember back when deino alt bite was insane it could easily kil stegos

[signal beacon]

Deino should be removed. Crocs just dont work in this game

[paper oriole]

but big alligator

[dapper mirage]

big alligator is the only argument you really need

you see how insane those things are

[gaunt hinge]

That’s because the alt bite wasn’t used a bunch

[low canopy]

you really DONT need more reasons to play deino as it is, its like second most played animal after carno

[gaunt hinge]

It was lunge > bite > alt > bite > alt and you’d make it out at half health as Deino if the Stego wasn’t using its head

[signal beacon]

Deino is cool, but it one shots half the fucking roster while being invisible half the time

[paper oriole]

deino

this is no meme, this is a solid argument for why deino belongs in the dinosaur horror sim game known as the isle

[placid iron]

true

[edgy harbor]

yes

[paper oriole]

just give huge alligator fracture and see how that plays out

[gaunt hinge]

delete the horror in that post and you got the isle bc frankly lots of horror aspects rn are not there

[signal beacon]

The devs putting 3 seconds of thought into how a gator would work:

Big gator:

[urban flax]

Guys, I've been thinking for some time for a way a tug-of-war mechanic could work. The problems devs brought up with it are :
-Uninteractive
-Locks two dinos in a situation where they can't move, but others can still attack them

So, when a deino lunges something that is more than 50% of itself but still under its own weight, it starts the tug-of-war. Maybe tug-of-war is only possible when lunging a specific body part, like stego's head.
Both dinos stamina deplete very quickly as they try to overpower each other. As long as the lunged dino has stamina, it can move around and drag the deino, but at a very reduced pace. Once it runs out of stamina, the deino can drag it slowly. If the deino runs out of stamina, it releases its prey.
Whaddya guys think ? (Especially you Miragaia I know you can find flaws where I don't see any)

[paper oriole]

it's a horror because the amount of bugs that make it in to each patch is horrifying

[brave surge]

horror only existed with hypos around

[gaunt hinge]

that is true

[paper oriole]

not even tbh

at night its just carno spam call except dark, vs carno spam call when it is light

i dropped a noodle on my keyboard ignore that awful typo

[gaunt hinge]

Things I miss about the isle:
It being dead silent at night and hearing giant crouched footsteps behind your real estate tree

[paper oriole]

no but it disturbed my fingers

[signal beacon]

One day, troodon will get 2 tapped by teno bite

[paper oriole]

troodon when trample comes. "gues i'll die"

[signal beacon]

Troodon had like 3 seconds of thought put behind it.
It was like "heho cool night time predator"

Teno just throws it away like the little fucking rat it is

[gaunt hinge]

ngl in that Troodon concept art Tenno did not look like it was having a good time,

[signal beacon]

Either troodon was upsized or the teno was young.
Those troodon almost stood shoulder hight

[dapper mirage]

Just gonna drop this here btw, new deino size estimate compared to rex

so yeah, isle deino is way undersized

[signal beacon]

Scratch that. They are literally fucking taller than the teno when risin in that concept

[urban flax]

Isn't that estimate dubious ?

[placid iron]

Troodon players assembling a 12 man pack only to be killed by 2 carnos in less than a minute

[signal beacon]

Troodon players when dryo

I will Kos all troodon as a dryo

Easier to break

[paper oriole]

long neck good for grabbing and using like a handle

[placid iron]

Troo mains fear the dryo kick attack

[odd sedge]

Troodon is gonna be bullied by every dinosaur.
But on the other hand, Troodon will be the perfect animal to harass humans

[gaunt hinge]

I feel like.
It’d be a neat perk for troodon to have the ability to make its calls sound more distant, (mimicry in particular)
But I’ll probably expand on that when the five hour timer is done

[signal beacon]

Troodon mains fear any animal that isn't a fucking ant

[tepid gate]

not really, although it might be getting a small size decrease in the near future from what I've been told

[rare fractal]

It’d be neat for a number of animals to have, but Troodon is prolly one of the least optimal choices to give that ability

[placid iron]

honestly I feel like troodon will be reeeeally fun to play when terrorizing humans, crawling through vents like xenomorphs, mimicking human speech, etc.

[dapper mirage]

There’s a nice description under the image in this link https://www.deviantart.com/fadeno/art/Deinosuchus-hatcheri-multiview-skeletal-850628356

Basically talks about deino’s size and stuff

[odd sedge]

Just wait until the Troodon says fuck you instead of 3 calling

[paper oriole]

troodon mimicking the horrified screams of its human victims like the annihilation bear

[gaunt hinge]

Leeroy Jenkins Troodon.

[signal beacon]

Troodon...

1. Requires huge packs to make any impactful kill

2. Can literally get bit to death by herbivores

3. Has no feasible way of being faster than fucking dryo. And no way of being more agile.

[gaunt hinge]

YES

EXACTLY.

[paper oriole]

your friend disappears in the woods, you don't know what happened but the next night you think you hear him crying for help from that forest

but it doesnt sound quite right

[signal beacon]

In the dark forest you hear a faint "uwu"

[gaunt hinge]

Not gonna stop me from playing the hell out of it.

[urban flax]

So since you have 600 hours in the game you know it's a troodon and proceed to spam kick through the forest to kill anything that dares approach your legs

[rare fractal]

Sounds like budget velo

[signal beacon]

Dryo will literally be able to hunt troodon

[gaunt hinge]

Yeah?

[paper oriole]

slavic dancing through the forest. the merc combat

[gaunt hinge]

Some people don’t care about stats so much as having fun with like a 15 person group

[signal beacon]

If you're getting oppressed by fucking dryo, you need to rethink your addition to the game

[odd sedge]

You walk into the woods, your flashlight flickers and from the rustling bushes, you hear a crow like
"Fock off, uwu"

[placid iron]

troo balance also seems like a nightmare, like if venom is crazy strong it could be super powerful, but we literally know nothing about it other than "stronger in packs"