general-feedback-discussion

[outer sphinx]

i mean, as humans we want too keep animals that look cute, nomatter if they are actually able to do any shit, thats just human nature

[barren zephyr]

What purpose do Panda's serve in their respective ecosystem?

I'm all for save the wolves, they're pretty beneficiary to boreal or forest ecosystems

[outer sphinx]

nothing, they live either in captivity or in places where humans have to look after them 24/7

[hot inlet]

well many animals evolve to reduce comeptition with other animals and stick with this even the animal they where competing no longer exists

[outer sphinx]

oh there is no competiton in the bamboo eating nieche for a good reason, bc bamboo as a food is garbage

[sick pond]

how are baleen whales comparable to opportunistic predators for one

and pandas don't ONLY eat bamboo

idk where you got that from

[barren zephyr]

That's the kicker

[outer sphinx]

well whales cant even eat shit bigger than a shrimp so...

[barren zephyr]

I see where the guy is coming from, but he chose poor examples

Most of the Carni's ingame are opportunistic predators

There's no baleen whales in the isle

[honest sparrow]

Did someone really fucking use baleen whales

[sick pond]

yeah but nothing currently in the isle is specialized enough to only eat specific animals

[outer sphinx]

ye, most are not oprtunistic predators, Polar Bear might be the best ex of all

[barren zephyr]

read in general feedback

[honest sparrow]

I saw

I have a list but it’s not worth the time or energy spent

[gritty helm]

@weak dune

Personally, I'm fine with prefered prey being the primary source of nutrients but for the sake of gameplay carni's should gain some bit of nutrients from non preferred prey items. Mostly because there's always gonna be an instance where a certain carni's preferred prey just won't be available due to no one playing them and no one wants their gameplay to suffer due to something outside of their control

[barren zephyr]

Actually, almost all the animals in the isle are apex predators in their respective environments

Carnivore side

Bringing them over into the context of this game, and switching to push niches is a fair play

[outer sphinx]

Carnivores are gonna get a diet rework in u5 where any meat they eat will fill hunger but not nutrients

[barren zephyr]

But the meat is meat argument kinda does apply to most predators in any ecosystem
They won't pass up fairly easy nutritious meals
Unless we're going for a magy route

[sick pond]

also polar bears are specialized seal hunters, they just make up the majority of their diets because they're there pretty much the only thing they can find out on the ice

during the spring and summer they have a more diverse diet

[honest sparrow]

^

[versed forge]

Its already like that wdym

[outer sphinx]

i mean without any debuffs

[barren zephyr]

Tbh

Diet debuffs on Carni's don't work

Only for something really niche
Like cannibalism

[sick pond]

like I can go through that list of "animals that can only eat 1 or 2 things" and point out the flaws for pretty much all of them

but that wouldn't even matter because only getting nutrients for one type of animal makes for poor gameplay anyway

[outer sphinx]

utah v deino

[sick pond]

carno vs ptera

[barren zephyr]

Heard gator tastes good irl

[outer sphinx]

carno v stego

[weak dune]

I think one of the important things people seem to be entirely missing about my argument is you have people pulling shit like "Carno should get nutrients from Stego even though its a small game specialist" and things like that.

We have "specialist" dinos in our roster. We also have "generalists" (like Cera). The argument that every carni on the roster should just get universal nutrients regardless of species or niche is purely stupid because we have specialists on the roster.

[barren zephyr]

No one disagrees with that

There's clear specialists

But it's the extant on how these systems operate in execution

[weak dune]

Also that yeah lol

[sick pond]

"small game specialist" isn't super specialized considering our current, and future, roster

[outer sphinx]

The devs addressed the fact that they wouldnt add meat that gives all nutrienst sincethey tested it and it was too easy

[weak dune]

Well Stego certainly isn't small game is it

[barren zephyr]

Only that one person's wide ranging meat system for Carni's makes the most sense

[sick pond]

literally everything but deino and stego is small game

[barren zephyr]

Where certain animals contain certain types of meat which is more preferable or palpable to certain predators

[outer sphinx]

teno is pseudo mid but yea

[barren zephyr]

Like Stego meat being fatty
Utah being lean in meat

[weak dune]

And baby stego is also "small game" according to Carno mains

You see my point?

[sick pond]

tenonto is functionally small tier though. like a good utah can kill it.

[barren zephyr]

not in qa tho

well, 2 good utahs at least

if the pounce works properly

[sick pond]

highly depends on player skill

[barren zephyr]

depends on bugs lol

[sick pond]

but carno charge can knock it over so it doesn't really matter what category it's in

[weak dune]

Thing is people have been arguing for forever that "If I can kill it, I should get rewarded, because meat is all the same"

[sick pond]

why is that wrong

[barren zephyr]

Anyway, the concept of diets right now isn't what the problem is. It's the execution
As long as you catch something, you shouldn't be punished for not having to hope someone picked the playable on your shopping list

That's kind of the flaw with carni diets

[cyan flame]

If the point of diets is to keep x animal in x biome, then carnis do need some kind of restrictions on their diets too

[barren zephyr]

Yeahhh deer with broken leg and I’m a hungry predator? I’ll let you live because my diets say you are not on my preferred list

this makes sense

[weak dune]

1. Because its not realistic despite what people claim
2. Because it doesn't incentivize niche playstyles if you can just get the same shit anywhere no matter what
3. Because you get toxic bullshit like Carno mains whining to nerf Stego because they were morons and facetanked a stego and died
4. Because putting things above your dino's ability to take down on its diet to "encourage bullying other dinos off a kill" (as if they need any encouragement) or "You're only really supposed to hunt the BABIES" like they tried with Stego-Carno matchup is stupid and just leads to problems

[barren zephyr]

Irl, in your own example, polar bears can reliably find prey after miles of travel and tracking. Then using clear cut strategies to catch seals on the ice.
Baleen whales can detect and target large amounts of plankton, krill, etc and reliably catch hordes of food to sustain themselves

This doesn't work in the context of the game. People can play what they want. And not everyone is gonna play as the small deer or little bunny
Meaning that coming across your preferred prey is based on chance if anything. And can only be stop gapped by ai

[weak dune]

Both species of which are regularly starving right now because they can't find enough preferred food or alternate food with enough nutritional value

[urban flax]

Guys
The best suggestion for carnivore diets is Miragaia's
I can't link it cuz I'm on phone, but it's easy to find

[barren zephyr]

It's kind of human intervention in those cases
Fishing boats, melting ice caps

[weak dune]

But its both because they can't find the right kind of food, not because other food isn't available

[sick pond]

idk why you keep saying carnivores being generalized is unrealistic, it's very realistic. Nothing in game would benefit from having a niche playstyle where it can only hunt 1 or 2 things, carno mains whining about stego isn't my problem, and you won't even tell me what the last problem with the stego-carno matchup even is

and polar bears do hunt land animals during the warmer months, they don't need a magic seal nutrient to survive

[weak dune]

I didn't say its not realistic to have generalists. I said its not unrealistic to have specialists that don't get nutrients off of any meat they happen to find because not all animals are adapted to eat every type of meat. Which is what people have been arguing is the case for weeks.

[sick pond]

nothing in game is a specialist

[urban flax]

Carno kinda is

[weak dune]

[barren zephyr]

The case being, there's an extant to how specialized the playables are based on the fact that attaining optimal diets are based on what is being played

Ai can only ever be a band aid fix to this issue

[weak dune]

Carno and Ptera are both specialists lmao

That's literally half of our current carni roster

[sick pond]

yeah but other small game specialists like coyotes and jackals will scavenge off of large carcasses

[weak dune]

Coyotes aren't specialists lmao

[sick pond]

lmao

[weak dune]

"Coyote is a great example of a generalist carnivore, because they eat pretty much anything with meat on its bones that they can kill or find somewhere in the woods. They can therefore live in a very large area."

[sick pond]

they're not generalist hunters though

[cyan flame]

The point of diets, from what I know, is to place a certain critter in a certain biome or two. This especially for the herbivores, but also for the carnivores. As such, carnivores do need some kind of limit on what they can feed on, so they stick to the biome with their designated prey. Granted, this can probably be achieved in some other ways, but still. There's also the whole difficulty, if carnivores can get nutris from everything, then they might have it too easy to keep their diets compared to the herbivores that do have to contest over three different food items.

[weak dune]

^

[sick pond]

no dude, the thing that should make being a carnivore hard is finding and hunting other animals, not finding the right animals to hunt

[versed forge]

I mean the thing about stego being on the diet was so that if you found a juvenile or a stego corpse as a carno, you'd get a really filling meal. As they want to have when they add things like brachi or whichever. They want it to be where when an apex falls, its a body that's vastly sought after and fought over as the nutrient gains would be insane.

[cyan flame]

I told you what the point of the diets are, and peoples opinions on how the difficulty should be. It should be difficult to keep your diet "maxed out", no matter if you're a carnivore or herbivore. And that does mean there has to be something more than just "get prey".

[weak dune]

That's great in theory but the only thing it accomplished is Carno mains bitching they can't facetank a stego lmao

[sick pond]

how does not restricting carno diets cause carno mains whining

[cyan flame]

But they want critters in given biomes, so no matter the difficulty part of it, you still need to take that into account. Aside from migrations, you're supposed to find x herbivore and y carnivore in a given biome.

[weak dune]

"Stego too hard to hunt. It killed me in one tail swing. NERF OP STEGO"

[cyan flame]

Which means they need a reason to be there, and a reason to not be somewhere else most of the time.

[sick pond]

thats just a dumb complaint how is that in any way related to this

[weak dune]

Because the dev's putting Stego on Carno's diet is what led the majority of braindead Carno mains to bitch that Stego was too OP because they can't roflstomp it

[versed forge]

Except it doesn't change that fact, they still bitch just like deino mains bitching they can't 1v1 the ass end of a stego. Like I'm not sure where this ideology of "well it isn't on my list to eat so ill never complain about not being to kill this thing I feel I should kill" thats just not how it works

The people who are like that are a loud ass minority

[weak dune]

Pretty sure Stego is on Deino's diet list right now

[versed forge]

Literally everything is on deinos diet

[sick pond]

also carno shouldn't be hunting stego solo no matter what it's diet is

[versed forge]

Deino eats whatever it can get.

[cyan flame]

@weak duneI guess you could make it so you get different levels of nutrition vs food for good vs bad prey. So you can eat "bad" prey, get some nutri, but in the long run you'll end up with the "I have more food than nutris" if you don't eat proper "good" prey instead? Though that does not solve the whole "need three different prey for different nutrits", so there's that too.

[weak dune]

Yeah but unlike before, they can't get all 3 nutrients from everything

[sick pond]

but if a pack of carnos needed to hunt a stego they should be able to, and be able to benefit from their kill

[cyan flame]

Deino current diet = stego, teno, deino. With one nutri for each. Possible bug, but that's how I was told it works for now.

[weak dune]

They benefit by not starving until they can find something else to eat. But just a thought: Go hunt something you get nutrients from instead

[cyan flame]

If they need to do that, maybe they've fucked up in the first place. And yes, they do benefit, they get food. They just don't get nutris from it. Which means they would only hunt that if they were starving and had no other choice.

[weak dune]

A carno that Needs to hunt a stego is a carno that's too stupid to live, considering AI Teno are a dime a dozen

[versed forge]

Then that's something they changed despite having said deino would be a generalist

[sick pond]

why shouldn't they get nutrients from it though

[cyan flame]

Yup. I don't know if it's meant to be or not, but that's how it works right now, for good or ill. At least it does mean you can't just sit in a corner and eat fish and have perfect diet so there is that :p

[weak dune]

I was running around for hours earlier on my Carno on AU

I've had perfect diet the whole time without even hunting a single player

If you "have" to hunt a stego, you're a shit Carno player and you deserve that spike the stego shoves through your face lmao

[sick pond]

lmao

[daring remnant]

quite true

[weak dune]

Hell, I was running around the back end of swamp killing teno AI for baby utahs just for the hell of it, literally leaving a trail of bodies I didn't need for them

[cyan flame]

Again, I think it has to do with where you want a carnivore in the biomes and what you want it to hunt. Sure, you could make stego give nutris, but since nothing above young sub would die to a carno duo, you'd only rarely hunt stegos as carno anyway.

[sick pond]

are you actively avoiding other players or something? you realize that saying "you didn't hunt a single player" just means that the game is so poorly balanced anyone can basically be playing single player and can be fine.

not to mention that you seem to thing that killing a stego means you're a bad player

[weak dune]

If by "actively avoiding players" you mean not parking my ass on the same 5 feet of center pond getting into fights with stegos and actually moving around the map, sure

[sick pond]

I think you just don't really fight in the game much, and you're unfamiliar with the combat system, so you thing that stegos are some sort of untouchable monster that can't be killed

[cyan flame]

I don't think that's true at all. It's more so that killing a stego as a carno is not part of the role you play as carno, and as such, you should not be encouraged to do that. Is it doable, sure, with enough time and effort. Should it be common, no absolutely not.

[random imp]

i just have to point out that Whales like Blue whales CAN'T eat birds, doplphins and sharks, they just can't swallow them, their throat hole is basically as large as a football ball.

[barren zephyr]

Whales are FAR different from an animal like carno or rex so, they aren’t really specified to one food item

whales have to eat small fish and krill because that is literally the only thing they can swallow

[weak dune]

You seem to be under the impression that a Carno is SUPPOSED to be fighting a Stego. There's this thing called "intended game design". If you choose to go against that, that's your prerogative.

But I do love proving people wrong who say its "impossible to survive as X" when I do it easily all the time by... I don't know. Playing the game as its intended.

Like not facetanking a stego as a small game hunter.

[random imp]

mysticetes is what i meant, but you know... words.

[weak dune]

Ideally the dino that should be hunting Stego, when its not borked af, is Utah

[barren zephyr]

Carno isn’t even a small game hunter at this point, or it’s not intended to be one atm. with the current ecosystem we have now it’s more like a land dwelling apex

[random imp]

there isn't even that small game right now, everybody is playing utahs, stego or pachy

[barren zephyr]

Until larger playables are added carno will likely remain at the top

[sick pond]

I don't think that you should be forced to stay in one ecological niche by punishing a players free choices. Also I don't want it to be constantly hunting stegos, but if you and your pack are all good enough to take one down you should be able to

[random imp]

once a bigger roster is in carno will be the Cheeta of TheIsle, eating small stuff.

it can have like stego in its diet, but just if he is lucky to find a baby around.

[sick pond]

facetanking a stego isn't how you hunt stegos. if you actually played the game you would know this

[barren zephyr]

yeah but, who knows when a larger carnivore will come out

[signal beacon]

Once a big roster is in carno will have like 7 players lmao

[random imp]

it's like a Treat

[weak dune]

Problem is until competitors are introduced, people act like Carno should be Cheetah-Rex

[random imp]

nah, carno in legacy has a big playerbase

[barren zephyr]

which, it pretty much is atm

[weak dune]

Tell that to all the Carno's constantly dying to Stego tail swings lol

And then bitching they died

[sick pond]

they're not doing it right lmao

[barren zephyr]

you’re supposed to bait it’s tail swings and go for the head

it’s pretty easy to do if you’re in a sizable pack

and the Carno players aren’t awful (they will be)

[cyan flame]

Well, I think they do want niches, so there is that. That's part of the diet thing as well I'd say. And yes, you can, if you and your fellow carno can (not that carnos should come in packs), but that does not mean you should be encouraged to.

[weak dune]

The encouraged to (and the false idea that because its on your diet you should be superior to it) are the problems with incentivizing hunting outside your niche, yeah

Also the fact Carno has like

0 downsides

[sick pond]

ok first, most niches irl don't result in nutrient deficiencies if you hunt other animals, and even with those niches pretty much all predators will scavenge

[crude girder]

I mean carnivores in game can live off any random crap they catch and eat

they just don't thrive off it

[weak dune]

^

[crude girder]

people who want "meat is meat" tend to want to be able to thrive off any random crap they catch/eat

[sick pond]

yeah but opportunistic scavengers and hunters are thriving off all the corpses they find

[weak dune]

When IRL animals can't eat within their niche, they die. Isle dinos can't eat within their niche, they can live forever if they find literally anything edible

[cyan flame]

@sick pondI think the "problem" here is that if you encourage lets say carno to hunt stegos by giving them nutris, you'll have carnos wanting to fight adult stegos. Something that should not happen except the once in a blue moon thing.

[crude girder]

i.e. I should be able to maintain a perfect diet because I'm hunting challenging animals (even if I have no business doing so)

[sick pond]

it encourages carnos to hunt whatever they want. not anything in particular

[crude girder]

Sure, and I'd imagine animals like Cerato and Deino would do just that

[sick pond]

yeah but every carnivore in game would logically do the same

[crude girder]

By encouraging them to hunt whatever they want, it's in a way giving them a method to just avoid the diet system entirely

[barren zephyr]

as they should

[weak dune]

They thrive off of corpses of animals that are within their niche. A lion hunting gazelle, wildebeast, and zebra isn't going to thrive just the same eating animals from entirely different ecosystems

[cyan flame]

I guess indirectly you could make every critter give one of the nutris, for a carnivore.

So you'd still have to hunt more than one kind, but you do get some more leeway

[sick pond]

yeah but a lion would be fine eating domestic cattle, deer, and wild boar

[crude girder]

I.e. if I can theoretically catch and kill an animal, I'm going to do so. No matter if I am miles from my intended biome, hunting things I have no reason to try and hunt

[cyan flame]

Even deino should not be the "eat everything and gain all nutris", it's an apex, so it should have it more difficult honestly

Much as I understand that it's a bit more.. limited in prey choices

[crude girder]

A Carno atm does fine eating anything it can catch

[barren zephyr]

If that was the case then it would be impossible to grow a deino

[crude girder]

you don't starve to death, and thus you can wait around till something better shows up

[cyan flame]

Hardly. You could have fish give one nutri, deinos give another, and then everything else give a third.

[sick pond]

and the isle isn't a perfect parody of a real ecosystem anyway, so any attempts to flesh out real niches wouldn't work anyway

[crude girder]

however the lack of nutrition also keeps you from playing like a jackass and ganking whatever you want whenever you want

[weak dune]

[sick pond]

carnivores diets should be working off what parts of the body

[barren zephyr]

so grow a deino for 10 hours? Because the chances of anything coming to drink is almost 0

[sick pond]

sent the message too early

[cyan flame]

Gore system will probably do just that

[sick pond]

yeah the gore system should be what determines carnivore diet, not what you're eating

[crude girder]

i.e. it would provide a method of keeping a jungle carnivore from moving into the swamps, or keeping a plains animal from moving to the coasts

[sick pond]

also my statement was objectively correct

[crude girder]

Your statement also works to contradict your own arguement

[weak dune]

Look up "Creative liberties" and "educated guesses"

[sick pond]

what are you talking about

[barren zephyr]

what

[crude girder]

The Isle is a game, not irl, so even if a Lion can do fine eating domesticated cattle, game logic says "carno can't eat X"

[cyan flame]

Well that's cause of other issues, no? Besides, you grow to 50% just fine, and then you can still keep two out of three nutris, I'd say that's pretty good for an apex and currently uncontested playable honestly.

[weak dune]

^

[crude girder]

If we argue that niche partitioning doesn't work because the isle is a game, that same logic can be used to discredit "meat is meat"

[weak dune]

Also the idea "Well we just can't make a realistic diet for a fictional animal" is inherently flawed. By that logic we can't decide what any dino in the game should look like because we've never seen anything but their bones.

[barren zephyr]

Map layout probably destroys deino in the most sense. the map is so awkward and all over the place it’s almost impossible to lunge anything

[weak dune]

But here we are

[sick pond]

but you're just picking and choosing what to make more realistic then the others, you're using "specialized carnivore can only hunt one or two things irl" and "oh just game logic" in the same argument

if anyones contradicting themselves its you

[barren zephyr]

also considering the fact that lunge can break sometimes

[crude girder]

Well here's the goal of the diet system: Control player movement in a predictable manner

Herbivores: control where their food spawns, they'll follow

[weak dune]

Because by dev design, some dinosaurs are niche specialists. So speaking about realism and speaking about game design, the logic works.

[crude girder]

Carnivores: If they can eat anything, they will go anywhere, there's no control

[sick pond]

but nothing in game is a niche specialist though

[weak dune]

Lmao

[barren zephyr]

he’s right

[outer sphinx]

well some should just the game didnt make them as such

since current state is a mess

[sick pond]

unless you count "small game hunter" as a niche, which is the most incredible vague and inconsequential niche possible behind scavenger

[weak dune]

I guess Pteras should hunt stegos next and deino should roam the plains Niches? Specializations? What're those?

[crude girder]

Willo you haven't addressed the main issues with the meat is meat argument which is how do you then restrict carnivore player movements?

[lavish quail]

Deinos do do that tbf

[barren zephyr]

I mean, deinos already roam the planes for some reason

[cyan flame]

@barren zephyrYeah, I'm not saying it would work fine just now. It was more so me saying I believe deino should struggle decently, it is powerful and has a "one-shot" ability and all that. And with it being "uncontested", I can't say it's bad if it has to find three different kinds of prey, especially since two of those would be "common", being fish and deinos. And two out of three isn't a bad diet, I'd say that should be good for growing and for living, and be the far more common for any playable rather than running around with perfect diet most of the time.

[lavish quail]

anyway whats happening

[sick pond]

the thing that limits ptera hunting is literally only it's size. its actual niche, which is coastal fish eater, doesn't really matter anymore

[weak dune]

Excuse me, Deinos should continue to roam the plains*

[lavish quail]

someone gimme a tldr

[weak dune]

Fixed my statement

[outer sphinx]

meat is meat argument

[crude girder]

Because ideally, if I go into the jungle, I should know what creatures am likely to encounter. Current diets works for that, as I know that the herbivores are restricted based on the locations of their food, and the carnivores are restricted based on the locations of their prey

[weak dune]

Except it hunts Hypsi and rabbits. Not coastal animals

[sick pond]

it has the ability to hunt fish, but carcasses have been on it's diet list for a while so idk how thats specialization

[lavish quail]

Rn kinda makes sense but with gore i would like them to gain different nutrients from eating organs of preferred prey

[cyan flame]

Discussion on if carnis should be able to eat anything for nutris and all that. The purpose of the diet system, and so on.

[barren zephyr]

If deino were to have some sort of specified diet preference, it should be when the game has more playables and better areas to dwell as deino, like deepish ponds and such, at the moment deino is fine diet wise since there isn’t much to hunt, except fish and other deinos

[crude girder]

But if we let carnivores benefit off any given kill, then when I enter a new biome, I will know what herbivores are going to be there, but the carnivores could be literally any individual carnivorous animal

[lavish quail]

Like eating teno stomach and intestines should give different nutrients that would be cool

[cyan flame]

Yeah, that's fine. I wasn't talking as of right this moment, and I'm well aware the map is, well.. not the best we've ever had to say the least :p

[outer sphinx]

well thats what the gore update will do

[weak dune]

Some people don't like this argument because carni's should get an easy pass to be able to eat anything ig unlike herbs, is the tl;dr
<#general-feedback message>

[barren zephyr]

Locational consumption for diets was always interesting

[lavish quail]

Rn tho carnis should be able to get atleast two nutrients from whatever

[crude girder]

Like a rex could literally live in any random biome, or allo could just go vibe in every biome, etc

[sick pond]

good

[lavish quail]

Untill places are fleshed out more that is

[crude girder]

If there is no method to predicting which carnivores will be where, why should the herbivores be restricted like that? How is it fair to that entire faction?

[lavish quail]

When i say whatever i mean on its diets

[crude girder]

More over, what is the point of unique biomes if animals aren't actually made to stay in them

[sick pond]

because herbivores and carnivores are different

[weak dune]

That as well. Notice how people want herbs to be restricted but not carni's? There's a theme here lol

[lavish quail]

There is no restrictions to where stuff is rn so it makes sense for diets to be a bit more lenient on carnivores

[sick pond]

they shouldn't be subject to same factors because they're completely different

[lavish quail]

But then again meat is meat when your a juvie

[crude girder]

Sure, but fundamentally the diet system is meant to control player movement, the carnivores need to have their movement controlled as well, so how do you propose it is done?

[weak dune]

So now realism matters?

[sick pond]

realism matters when it makes for a fun game

[weak dune]

Idk, I find the game more fun as carni when I'm forced to move around a lot

Which current diets have achieved

[lavish quail]

Realism means that carno wins every fight rn

and humans could kill rexes instantly with realism

[crude girder]

Because when I enter a biome, I should know "I am likely to encounter Allos, Maias, and Albertos here" or "This is where I'd find Trikes, Rexes and Anky" but if the carnivores can go anywhere, then you take that away

[cyan flame]

Isn't that more an issue with herbi food spawners being.. odd? :p

[lavish quail]

Odd indeed. Poor pachys just want a perfect diet

[cyan flame]

I'd say that depends on the factors in question.

[hot inlet]

that was always so
but in some thign in real its like this
Herbivores say Zebras are way more restirctet than a Lion

a Zebra needs to be on open plains cause it mainly eats grass
while a Lion can also go in the forest and anywhere else
(thats why Lions where bevore way more wide spread then like zebras)

[weak dune]

tbf Pachy diet is just broken rn

[sick pond]

i think true realism means most of us die before we reach adulthood

[signal beacon]

Anky should be a loner in the jungle

[lavish quail]

which sucksss

[crude girder]

Irrelevant to what I said but sure whatever

[sick pond]

which is when realism should be ignored, because that wouldn't be fun

[lavish quail]

Also we should get kentro and herra so that we have more jungle animals

[cyan flame]

Yeah. My experience in legacy tells me food spawners for herbis have always been weird. Hopefully they figure out how to make them work properly. I find sumac as stego near swamp, while it says "arid plains" on the info.... :p

[crude girder]

It wouldn't be very fun for the rest of the players if Carnivores got a free pass to totally ignore the biome restrictions

[weak dune]

Except notice how lions that live in plains and lions that live in jungles (or other places) are adapted differently?

[lavish quail]

They should just set stuff to only go in certain areas

[weak dune]

The plains lion doesn't thrive in the same place a jungle lion or a cave lion does

[cyan flame]

Sounds properly hardcore honestly. At least for the apexes :p

[weak dune]

And those different adaptations took tens of thousands of years to develope

[sick pond]

it would be fun, but a different type of game

[versed forge]

@dense meteor is that... a screenshot from halo CE?

[crude girder]

Basically, how do you make it so you can tell who is living where, if half of the dinosaurs can live everywhere?

[cyan flame]

Well, the game is meant to be hardcore, especially for apexes, and so on. Horror survival. So it might make sense Willo.

[sick pond]

but that just happens because young animals are ez food and are eaten by pretty much everything

[lavish quail]

That would be based lmao

[cyan flame]

You mean like current juvies we have in game? :p

[sick pond]

yeah but for real animals eating young animals actually gives you your needed nutrients

[cyan flame]

They do in the game too, as long as it's the right kind of critter :p

[sick pond]

not how it should be though

[versed forge]

Lions... don't live in jungles

[lavish quail]

Tigers do tho :p

tigers are cooler than lions ngl

roar is much scarier

[weak dune]

There are in some places, like Ethiopia

[sick pond]

actually there are some populations of lions that do live in jungles

[hot inlet]

yeah theyr are not many left but some in Asia who live near and in jungles

[cyan flame]

Depends on what you want from the game and what the goals are. Again, diets are meant to limit where a critter lives. And I do believe it should be more hardcore which does entail dying a lot more than you currently do, both while growing up and being grown.

[crude girder]

imo, letting carnivores roam wherever, eat whatever, and just get a free pass to a good diet is a bit too lenient for them and makes biomes pretty pointless

[weak dune]

They're rare though

[versed forge]

Tigers are considerably better than lions are as well

[lavish quail]

Tigers are just better lions but they cant socialise

kinda like anyone who plays the isle

[weak dune]

Exactly. If herbs are restricted to living in only one place, its really not fair nor fun if carni's can just go wherever the hell they want while herbs are forced into one corner they either can't leave or can't enjoy the game.

[lavish quail]

Looking at you magy haters

[lavish quail]

I mean two places mainly

and there is more than one of that place on the map

so they could be in like 10 locations on a large map

But yeah carnis need strict diets

just not until gore tho

[sick pond]

but saying that the game design "isn't fair" is just dumb, herbivores are restricted to certain environments because their food don't run around the map and are all functionally made up of the same thing

[weak dune]

I'm not saying there's not. I'm saying restricting herbs to certain places but putting 0 restrictions on where carni's will want to be is not good game design when the dev's are trying to make a working ecosystem

[lavish quail]

carnis everywhere=bad

[cyan flame]

But if the herbis don't run around the map, then the carnivores food also don't do that :p

[crude girder]

If the herbivores are also restricted to certain environments, doesn't it make it far easier to track down your prey?

[lavish quail]

herbis everywhere=bad

[hot inlet]

well Carno for an instant are way better in the open then in the forest
same for Stego
while pachy would make way more sense to be in the forest

[lavish quail]

biomes that thrive on different enviroments=good

[weak dune]

Except herbivore food is limited to certain places, which means carni's don't have to look that far to find other dinos. The only places you have to go as a carni to find food are center plains, south swamp, and baby pond. Never worry about finding food then lmao

[sick pond]

carno not being good in the jungle shouldn't be because of it's preferred prey not being in the jungle, it should be because carnos speed and turn radius is useless in the jungle

[barren zephyr]

iirc carno is getting an agility nerf next update, no?

[crude girder]

That only works to a point, Carno's speed in open areas works well in the plains, in the arid biomes, and would work well near the coasts with their open beaches. So how do you keep Carno from going onto the beach and ganking things there? Or just forgetting its speed altogether and using its size to bully jungle animals off their food, etc

[sick pond]

i.e. game design determines the niches players are put into, not a shopping list of things you can and cannot eat

no reason not to let carno go to the beaches

[weak dune]

Except everyone is in specific areas (usually plains) because that's what the game design supports and favors the most. Are you honestly telling me that Carno is struggling because there's a lack of available food? Because

The only time Carno struggles for food is because a stego is sitting its ass on top of it

Of which the solution is literally walk somewhere else for food

[sick pond]

when did I say carno is struggling because the lack of food lmao. you're literally just making up shit

[crude girder]

If you want to make the biomes have unique fauna, you need to make sure they actually stay there. In the case of the herbivores, it's because their food grows there, and for the carnivores, it's the same principal, their food occurs in the biomes they are meant to live in. Carno has no reason to be on the beach, thus it shouldn't be rewarded for going there

[barren zephyr]

Okay but tbh
Even if we did limit the player movement to certain biomes

[low canopy]

i'm not sold on this "ecosystem" based on preferred prey to ever work, since down the line we have more than 50 playables, some are flat out more interesting and better than others so X and Y playables are easy to find, but Z wont be played at all so carnivore that requires Z wont be able to play

[barren zephyr]

Let's suppose that did happen

What happens if someone decided not to play as the preferred prey?

[crude girder]

That's what Ai is supposedly meant to solve

"but AI sucks"

[barren zephyr]

I think that's lame

It does lmao

[low canopy]

Then you run into issue of having to have ton of AI on the map, which trivialises growth of any carnivore

[crude girder]

Regardless, Ai is the current solution to "well what if no one is playing Maia"

[weak dune]

The AI currently does suck but I don't think nixing all AI from the game is the solution

[versed forge]

So when you say lions... you mean the African and asiatic lion? These two guys?

[sick pond]

fighting ai is boring too. I want to actually be fighting against players in the multiplayer game

[crude girder]

but on top of that, animals also have multiple prey options

[low canopy]

And then its death match with carnivores all over again, just get your diet check from easy ai and go brawl in the middle

[versed forge]

Because mountain lions are cougars.

[crude girder]

Ai being boring to fight and being too common are both solvable problems

[barren zephyr]

Player v player interaction is fields above ai
You'd be hard pressed to design any type of ai that is more fun to play against then a player
Triple AAA studios struggle with it

[low canopy]

Anyways, i think having preferred prey is a mistake, that will be walked backwards eventually on

[sick pond]

the ai being too boring to fight and too common are two problems that the isle developers won't be able to fix within a reasonable amount of time

[barren zephyr]

As it stands right now? It should be the optimal choice

Until ai is in a state where it works somewhat

[weak dune]

I said cave lion, not mountain lions
https://www.thoughtco.com/cave-lion-1093066

They don't exist anymore but they did, and they lived very differently from african lions, which is the point I was making

[crude girder]

True but in a server of say, 100 people where you have a range of animals (let's say like, 30 cause the entire roster may not be playable on officials) plus humans and tribals, you're simply not going to have enough players to fill every role, which kinda requires Ai just so an ecosystem isn't just "The one diablo that lives in the plains and everyone else is carnivores scattered to every biome"

[low canopy]

I already said why having AI support this shit aint going to work

time to farm some hypos with my buddies

[weak dune]

Well consider: If you don't want the AI, they weren't made for you

[sick pond]

lmao

[barren zephyr]

Yeah, fuck that
Just have different meat types for different dinos

[cyan flame]

I doubt you'd be able to do that ^^

[barren zephyr]

Ai is so lame

[crude girder]

Isn't that kinda the same thing as current diets tho?

[barren zephyr]

Kinda but not really

[low canopy]

I promise you i can do it, just have multiple accounts and find the easiest method

[versed forge]

Yeno what honestly could've been done instead of the current nutrient system? You get nutrients from everything HOWEVER... if you continue to eat the same prey you eventually not only become sick but you no longer gain nutrients.

[sick pond]

the ai is way too easy, you should be forced to fight against actual players in the survival game

[cyan flame]

you can't farm something when you never know what you have to do to get it, if it's even something you can get that way ^^

[barren zephyr]

Different animals when dead can be separated by categories of meat

[weak dune]

Honestly I think the "We'll make AI equally intelligent as players" goal is way too high and unrealistic. The AI serve a purpose but that's not it nor should it be

[low canopy]

people will find a way or.... "life will find a way"

[cyan flame]

Can't rely on players, much as you might want it ^^

[barren zephyr]

I'm fine with them as small critters
But it is absurdly realistic, with this team. It'd take a decade just to have it close to Halo CE standards

[crude girder]

Sure, though what method is going to fill in the space of keeping carnivores in the biomes they should be in?

[hot inlet]

in my opinion the ai should just react simplistic like an "real" animal
trying to flee at first but will fight back if it cant flee

[barren zephyr]

The herbivores

[weak dune]

No one is forcing you to fight AI lmao

[sick pond]

every carnivore relied on other players for the entirety of evrima outside of the mechanics test

[barren zephyr]

Carnivores will follow where the herbivores go for food

[crude girder]

If I can eat any herbivore, I'm not staying where the devs say I "should" be, I'm gonna mix pack with my buddies and go wherever and eat whatever I want

[weak dune]

Depends on the species. Personally a boar charging at a dino recklessly is pretty actual-boar-like-behavior

[cyan flame]

Only if the herbivore is the one you can or want to eat, and not the other one?

[barren zephyr]

Depends on species, you can't just sustain you're pack with anything with a set amount of time

[crude girder]

That's simply not true, Ai dryo were added very early in Evrima

[hot inlet]

if it would have babys or got woundet yes
otherwise boars still will try to flee first
otherwise boars would already go extinct

[sick pond]

if you were only hunting ai dryos you're just bad at the game lmao

[crude girder]

I mean if I've got some Carnos, Allos, an Acro, and such, and we are killing everything we come across, we'd be set for a long time, long enough to allow new prey to grow and respawn

[crude girder]

Or you were just growing your animal on easy food and then death matching, repeat

[sick pond]

some survival game that is

[barren zephyr]

Say for example Carno's eating small Allo's
The Allo meat would be for example "lean"
It can save us from starvation, but it wouldn't be pretty to digest

[weak dune]

Ah, no. They literally designed "boar spears" with a bar to stop the spear from going all the way through the animal because they will willingly impale their entire ass body on a spear just to kill you out of spite/aggression. Wild boars are nasty aggressive

[crude girder]

What would be the difference there between current and this proposal? Because you can eat food not on your diet and avoid starving, but you won't have a good time

[sick pond]

that's why the gore system should be determining carnivore diets and not the kind of animal you're hunting

[outer sphinx]

Hm, i quite like thus idea, itcould go more in depth with organs using the criterias

[barren zephyr]

It's more simplified and intuitive

[versed forge]

I mean... if we're talking about mix packing then... it doesn't matter where your preferred place is, you could just rotate around and kill everything regardless

[crude girder]

I mean you still have the issue of "I can't eat lean, thus this animal is nothing more than raw food"

on top of the new issue of "anything that isn't lean I can eat"

[hot inlet]

here in Europe the boars are quite "normal"
they will not bother you even if you come closer they will simply run /walk away
but if you scare them or they have young its a diffrent story

[weak dune]

There are animals you can starve to death eating because they're too lean. Wild rabbits, for instance

[barren zephyr]

That's just an example

[crude girder]

Okay, flesh out the proposal more, because right now it just sounds like current diets with different category names

[barren zephyr]

Carnivore meat can get a special trait, like being not too good to eat unless you're a specific playable

[cyan flame]

As long as the diet option limits where a carni can do like a herbi, and makes the carnis follow their designated herbi prey, it works

[crude girder]

This can be replicated on current diets by simply not putting the animal on the diets of most playables

[cyan flame]

No matter if you want to split it by nutris, or lean/fatty meat, or even gore

[sick pond]

carnivores and herbivores should have different playstyles

[barren zephyr]

True, but it becomes more arbitrary

[crude girder]

They already do, but the fact of the matter is that carnivores can't get a free pass to ignore their biomes all together

[weak dune]

^

[cyan flame]

And they do, in other ways. But diets are specifically to keep designated critters in designated biomes, and so it has to do that.

[barren zephyr]

I say they should get a free pass
But suffer consequences for it

[cyan flame]

But then there's no free pass, is there? ^^

[crude girder]

Does it? If this system is set up, why would carnivore meat not be as filling as herbivore meat?

[crude girder]

They already do, you can eat whatever, but you get debuffs for ignoring your diet

[sick pond]

yeah but herbivores don't have to hunt. they can just eat shit off the ground and have perfect diets, they can't starve because they graze. carnivores shouldn't have any of these features because they should play differently

[crude girder]

The proposal by Willo is that they can eat whatever, and you benefit for it

[weak dune]

Technically they do have to hunt. Their food just doesn't travel lol

[crude girder]

Carnivores have to hunt, can't graze, and their food has to be tracked down, they already play differently

[cyan flame]

We need some of those strain plants to hunt as herbis! :p

[crude girder]

The only thing they share is they both can only eat some foods, but for carnivores their options are far more varied

[weak dune]

Fuck yeah

[sick pond]

until the gore system, and then carnivores gain a small amount of nutrients from everything they eat

[cyan flame]

Honestly, I really like that idea. Have some really good strain plants that actually fight back and can move around somewhat and so on! :p

[lavish quail]

Thats dumb

[crude girder]

Is this something you're suggesting or are you misinterpreting something?

[lavish quail]

Ark X seeds

[versed forge]

I mean that was how the wording of the "we're going to have carnivores gain nutrients from eating different organs" sounded

[barren zephyr]

Because different animals would now be categorized in clear simpler terms
It'd be easier to implement as well if those category's were placed
And keeping in mind, a lot of these playables are supposedly balanced against certain matchups

[sick pond]

what i'm saying is, when a carnivore eats something they get a small amount of nutrients until the gore system comes out, and then your diet comes from different parts of the corpse

[barren zephyr]

Hypsi can escape an Allo by climbing a treetop
Having a favourable matchup in dense forests

[cyan flame]

But if it just comes from different parts of the corpse, we're still stuck with "carni can go anywhere"

[crude girder]

What that sounds like to me is that the carnivores will be able to get X amount of nutrients from eating Y, rather than "they can eat whatever for some benefit no matter what"

[crude girder]

I'm not sure it'd be more clear than "You can't eat this, you can eat this"

[weak dune]

Unless its specifically body parts from preferred prey species Which would make more sense

[barren zephyr]

I mean, wasn't that the point of balancing these new movement systems?
Why have diets now be the arbitrary determiner for balance and biomes

[lavish quail]

Hypsi should be able to ride other herbis :p

[weak dune]

Yes™️

[cyan flame]

Could work. I'd rather that the first bites give more nutrits, you know, the whole "eat the best parts", and that gore thus means only scavengers can eat from the "whole body" and gain as much nutris. Encourages a bit of group challenge "I eat first, so I get the most nutris per bite!"

[sick pond]

carnivores should be able to go anywhere to find food, but if you consider things like carno, which need the highest energy parts of meat, can no longer thrive by scavenging

[cyan flame]

Stego turret!

[hot inlet]

would be way more sense so a Carno would not kill like 5 animals just to get a perfect died
so it would only need to kill 1 or 2

[crude girder]

Diets are less about balance and more about biomes, because some animals would logically be able to do well in any biome where they are fast enough to catch something and strong enough to kill it, which is nearly every carnivore in nearly every biome. This means that no carnivore is actually restricted, as even a Carno in the Jungle would be able to make something work

[lavish quail]

That would make for a based event lol

[sick pond]

if diets are only about restricting a players free choice then it's useless

[cyan flame]

Now I want to see two stegos with their compliment of hypsis fighting each other! :p

[versed forge]

I mean they could just make it where they gain all nutrients from only their preferred prey... so there's an incentive to actually stay with a body that still has organs and parts to be eaten rather than "oh look i killed this teno but now my lipids are full, time to go hunt a pachy"

[lavish quail]

Two turrets fighting

[crude girder]

You can still choose to leave your biome, it's just about rewarding those who do not do so, and punishing those who do. The choice is yours to make

[weak dune]

Carno should get the best nutrient yield by swallowing small dinos whole to fit its small game hunter style, imo

[sick pond]

it was just an example

[weak dune]

Swallowing hypsis, dryo, troodons, small utahs

small pachys

[crude girder]

It's not like diets instakill your animal for setting foot outside your biome, it just becomes impossible to avoid debuffs if you stay out for too long

[weak dune]

etc

[barren zephyr]

I would disagree
A Carno making it work in a dense jungle should not be pushed out by the diet system
Rather it should be outcompeted, as Herrera can climb, hop tree to tree for safety or ambush. and having it's agility far more equipped to move through the foliage to catch prey

[lavish quail]

I bully carno mains with perfect diet hypsi

[versed forge]

The only thing its going to swallow are micros...

[weak dune]

Good

[barren zephyr]

That's the point of specialists after all

[weak dune]

That's why I say make things you can swallow whole worth a lot more nutrients

[lavish quail]

They never see the pachy coming because they cant see at all 🆒

[crude girder]

And Carno goes "hey nice kill that's mine now" and/or doesn't care because it's 1.8 tons and a 175kg Herrera ain't gonna be starving out a Carno any time soon

[sick pond]

but the gore system determining diets is different from herbivore diets by not completely restricting your movements, but giving you a whole different kind of restriction to work around

[versed forge]

You mean the corpse thats in the tree? As the Herrera... would bring its kill into the tree ?

[lavish quail]

Herra should be able to pounce onto a carnos back

[barren zephyr]

Yeah, but that can be solved simply by letting Herrara take kills up trees
Or having Cera become a better corpse bully

[crude girder]

Not much of a restriction if every problem can be solved with "go kill something"

[cyan flame]

If we get that mechanic that is :p

[sick pond]

hunting actual players isn't a restriction?

[crude girder]

Not necessarily depending on what it downed and how close the carno was at the time

[cyan flame]

Also I doubt a herrera can bring anything big up there anyway so

[barren zephyr]

Even if that was the case, if a Carno was starving, and seen a Herrera with a kill near the edge of a forest, the same scenario would play out

[crude girder]

No because anyone can do it

[lavish quail]

Grab and climb =0

[weak dune]

Honestly you can travel the entire map as a carno on a perfect diet without losing it or starving, even with dietary restrictions. Idk why people are so butthurt about it having to actually have a niche. Oh the inhumanity

[cyan flame]

Yes, I understand how it would work, I'm less sure we get it, or that they can make it work properly... :p

[lavish quail]

Then the carno goes into the forest after the herra and get gangbanged by 5

[barren zephyr]

Lmao

[weak dune]

Good

[cyan flame]

I doubt a few herreras will make a carno concerned :p

[versed forge]

I mean ima be honest a carno still one shots a Herrera

[barren zephyr]

It's rather not the niche
It's the rigid implementation that'd being argued

[weak dune]

I doubt it but we can hope

[lavish quail]

Carno doesnt 1 shot utah

[crude girder]

No matter how hard you make it, someone somewhere if gonna figure out how to 1v1 an Anky with a Carno, either because the Anky was terrible or because the Carno was godlike. That doesn't mean the Carno should be rewarded because again, it has 0 reason to be doing what it's doing

[cyan flame]

Herrera is half the size of a utah if even that

[barren zephyr]

I'd rather not have more arbitrary systems
Most people are neutral or dislike the carni diets as of rn

[outer sphinx]

wow utah weighs more than herrera...

[lavish quail]

Herra should be able to pounce on dinos backs

[weak dune]

The whole point of a niche is being specialized to a certain playstyle. Otherwise, play a different dino with a different playstyle

[cyan flame]

And do what? It'd get thrown off immediately :p

[lavish quail]

except dinos with spikes like kentro

[barren zephyr]

What's the point..

[lavish quail]

Nah thats just utahs

[weak dune]

The point is play a different dino if you don't like Carno's niche lol

[barren zephyr]

??

[cyan flame]

If a utah can't hold on for very long, you imagine a herrera that lacks specialized claws to do so can do better? xD

[lavish quail]

Uselessness is reserved for utah tho so it would be fine

[barren zephyr]

Okay.. I will... I don't specifically like Carno

[weak dune]

I mean replace Carno with anything really

[barren zephyr]

Okay, I don't wanna strawman and misinterpret your point

[lavish quail]

Hey! thats brutally true...

[barren zephyr]

Also that's probably a really bad example
The mf is gonna be tanking rex bites
How in tf is a Carno gonna bring it down

[lavish quail]

Idk but then you got carno just popping in and stealing the remains

[crude girder]

Maybe the anky was asleep at the wheel. But regardless, it was a bad example on purpose because it shouldn't even be possible but someone is gonna do it somehow. When that does happen, it shouldn't result in the Carno getting rewarded

[lavish quail]

Shouldnt be rewarded for doing ceras job :p

[crude girder]

Because again, that Carno had no reason to try and attack that anky, it shouldn't have won, and it probably shouldn't have even been in a place where it was able to even encounter an anky

[barren zephyr]

You know that's a really hyper specific example though right?

And the odds of that happening

[lavish quail]

Is there a better example?

[crude girder]

On purpose yes, but it illustrates the point, if the animal shouldn't be doing something, it shouldn't be rewarded

[barren zephyr]

That can be said for almost any other playable

[crude girder]

Anky and Carno are super extreme choices on purpose

[barren zephyr]

Alright, I'll roll with it

[crude girder]

because you can agree, it shouldn't be happening

[weak dune]

If I'm like "You know what, I want to play a speedy, agile dino", what I'm not going to play is Stego or Pachy.
Likewise if I want to play an animal that can fight a carno and win, I'm not going to pick a Dryo.
Or alternatively, since we're talking about diets, if I want a carnivore that can brawl, I'm not going to pick Ptera or Utah.

Basically its stupid to expect that all dinos of a certain designation (carni or herbi) should play basically the same or have an inherent advantage over the other.

"Herbs should be forced to eat 3 specific things for their diet, while getting no benefit from un-preferred plants, but carnis should get benefits from anything they can find" is bad design imo. Either both herbs and carnis can benefit from everything they find or they both have to pick and choose what's worth eating per their preferred diets.

[hot inlet]

you should have took Brachio and Troodon haha

[crude girder]

Brachi and Compy even lol

If Compy's bite did 1 damage, it would need 37,100 bites

[hot inlet]

the Compy nibbled its toe and then the Brachio died on a heavy infection XD

[barren zephyr]

I think the holes in all our arguments(including me) is this

[lavish quail]

probably like 400000 with healing being a thing

[signal beacon]

Nah compy has it in the bag

[barren zephyr]

We still have not touched or played with the gore update yet

[weak dune]

And we generally shouldn't expect a dino to be turned into something its not just because some people want it to be something else, other than what its intended to be and where its intended to go

[barren zephyr]

So we can't say how alot of this would trickle down in the niches

[crude girder]

I mean even with gore, I doubt the devs would throw out the idea that "X lives here" should apply to carnivores as well

"Cool I'm in the plains, I can find Dryo,Pachy,Teno,Stego, and literally every carnivore"

[barren zephyr]

True, but it is a big factor were the devs could throw another wrench in

Specifically for Carni's

[weak dune]

Unfortunately that's a "We'll cross that bridge when we come to it" scenario

Since the devs like to change a lot of things

[crude girder]

Yeah they could, but given that allowing carnivore players to say "haha fuck you I go where I want and I get no punishment for it" is highly unlikely, I don't think things will change too much

[weak dune]

Like the compass

[barren zephyr]

That's kind of what it boils down to

[hot inlet]

there you would probably need that certain dinso do more or less dmg to well certain other dinos
like a Carno who is meant ot hunt smaller critters do like 0 dmg to an anky or anything way bigger
but then ppl would be mad cause they want theyr epic kill like in legacy when they fight (without alt turn) a Rex with an utah for like 1 hour XD

[weak dune]

I mean carnivores are already pretty free to roam as it is. Most of them just don't try to lol Especially Carnos

[barren zephyr]

I think we can only properly discuss this until the feature is here

[weak dune]

Utah can get by pretty okay away from deathmatch hotspots too

If its not a literal infant

[weak dune]

I mean carno mains already bitch and whine about dying to stegos so

[barren zephyr]

I think the issue is simply just region locking

[crude girder]

I mean if given the option to go anywhere and eat anything, players will do so, meaning they won't be where they should be

[weak dune]

Okay but the thing is that Carni's aren't actually forced to stay in their niches. They're just not easily rewarded traveling outside of them

[barren zephyr]

I don't think I'll ever agree to that
I'd prefer if Herrara does better than Utah in the jungle by simple means of it being better suited to that environment. But not pushing it out arbitrarily

[crude girder]

if you make it so the only way to get perfect diet is to stay in your corner, then players won't be as tempted to leave

a Utah can still go into the jungle if it wants

it'll just have a bad time

Herrera is not only better suited to that environment, but also can benefit more from the resources

[weak dune]

I mean that's already kind of how it works. Allegedly utahs are superior in the jungle but if 1-3 adult carnos rolls up on a utah pack in the jungle and they don't run the fuck away, they're usually dead

[outer sphinx]

Utah is meant to be basically wherever since its capable of living in most regions

[barren zephyr]

That's due to pounce and Utah being shitty

[weak dune]

Because adult carno can rek utahs easily

[weak dune]

But again. Theory vs Reality. Hererra might also be shitty

We don't know yet cuz its not out

[barren zephyr]

If we had update 3.5
Those Utahs would have clear advantage in the jungle over a Carno

[weak dune]

Not disagreeing with you there

[barren zephyr]

True, it's mostly semantics

[lavish quail]

#general-feedback message

[hot inlet]

i would actually think as an funny addition if you got some Ai "events" where like 5 or more Tenos etc spawn in then wander a certain route and when they reach the end (outside the map) they despawn or just wander back or take a other route until all die or new ones spawn in to form a new herd

also certain "corpses" spawn in the mudpit (like dinos who got stuck there)

[lavish quail]

oop sorry That was from ealier

[outer sphinx]

Utah, at least on paper has the advantage of not beeing locked to 1 place when it comes to combat, you ran into smth thats better in forest, go into plains and vice versa

[weak dune]

Honestly Utah seems like it should be the current best "Generalist"/utlity hunter out of the current roster

[outer sphinx]

Generalist and oportunistic endurance hunter is what it's supposed to be

and this should be emphasized with gore and more dinos beeing added to diets

[barren zephyr]

Features should push biomes, and encourage capability not diets imo
Like Teno having a better swim, so it'd be better near swamp areas. Or allo/alberto bumping into dense foliage
So smaller things would be better suited
The matter of competition and suitability I feel is what should be the outlier for Carni movement around the map

[weak dune]

Exactly my point. Utah being a generalist and opportunistic scavenger. Carno being a straight specialist. Ptera being a specialist (fisher) and opportunistic scavenger. Deino being a specialist (ambush) and opportunistic hunter & scavenger/bully.

[outer sphinx]

then how do you differentiate bwteen a carni that should live in a coastal are compared to one in plains?

[outer sphinx]

utah technicaly has a speciality, endurance hunter, not scavanger, it wants to drag out fights for as long as it needs for bleed to take effect

[hot inlet]

maybe make one who lives near coastals can drink saltwater or looses water not as fast

[barren zephyr]

What carni lives in costal?

Do we have one? I can't remember

[weak dune]

Combination of diet restrictions and gimmicks/mechanics. Have it hunt other coastal things and have mechs like climbing cliffs and trees.

[outer sphinx]

lets say troodon but troo loks to live more in forests and coastal

[weak dune]

Well, its technically both generalist, endurance hunter and scavenger.

[weak dune]

Ptera, mostly

[cyan flame]

You could apply that to herbis too then, couldn't you? Instead of locking them to diets?

[barren zephyr]

Okay, so Troodon would be able to invade things like burrows, mantle and climb rocks. Swim about and invade Ptera nests

[outer sphinx]

i asked that as an alternative to region orientate players without diets @weak dune

[barren zephyr]

Just for example, I know troodon is more forest suited

[outer sphinx]

so with enough patiente and skill it could climb rocks to get to ptera nests and kill the babies?

[weak dune]

Unfortunately there's not a very easy way to do that, though to be fair diets aren't working as intended on the carni side so clearly that's not so easy either

[barren zephyr]

Each playable already from special abilites and features by design are already differentiating enough I feel

[weak dune]

Like with crab and turtle spawns

[barren zephyr]

Yes

Also capable of sustaining off the crabs and fish remains there
Because of it's size

[weak dune]

Pretty sure Herrera is confirmed for that at least

[barren zephyr]

An Allo at coastal will starve just off of crabs

[outer sphinx]

herrera should get nowhere near coastal

[weak dune]

Honestly I'd love to see coastal deino but there's like. NO way for Deino to reach the ocean before dying of dehydration

[outer sphinx]

well there needs to be a good range of dinos for that since proto is a forest/ coastal dino

from the concepts

[barren zephyr]

Herrara could theoretically climb there, but remember, the swimming aspect.

[weak dune]

Herrera will be able to climb cliffs

[outer sphinx]

also with how much work is put in that biome i doubt proto and ptera will be the sole ones there

[weak dune]

The devs already talked about Herrera climbing cliffs to reach Ptera nests

[outer sphinx]

then i missed that one

[barren zephyr]

Tbh, I can't realistically see the devs ambition bearing fruit

[weak dune]

I do think they kinda suffer from scope creep

[barren zephyr]

Especially for how unrealistic the standards are, like ai being as good as players
Or having intuitive diets, perks, etc, etc, and having these idealized biomes and abilities

Just about everything they released has been mediocre

[outer sphinx]

imo the only AI we should have is wildlife not dinos

since that can be much more simplistic since it doesnt need to be to the level of a player (aka human mind)

[clever thorn]

@unreal ridge The Spino would mabey win a 1 vs 1 against a 50% Croc or bigger but keep in Mind the Spino was a Fish hunter not a Croc hunter and those Fish were mabey 4 or 5 Meters long and weight a few hundred Kilos or mabey on ton but not a few Tons. So Spino could never pick up a few Tons with his arms. I rather think that they would Coexcist because both of them are Powerfull Dinos. And keep in Mind IF the Spino would be able to pick him up, he would have 10 Meter and 8 Tons of Muscles in his Arms. But a smaller one wouldnt be a Problem yeah but the same way around. A 50% Spino wouldnt be a problem for a Adult Deino so yeah.

[barren zephyr]

The team is way too small before even entertaining the idea

[weak dune]

I'm fine with dino AI but not the specific way its implemented I would've liked to see large AI herds of Dryo, Teno, or Stego that follow routes all around the greater map like actual animals, not the braindead whatever-we-have that just slow walk in circles and occasionally call into the void

Its bad when the best AI in the game are schooling fish that swim in circles lol

Boar are pretty okay too. Funnily enough I don't think the Utah AI are smart enough to run around logs to get you but the boar are lol

[barren zephyr]

Carno ai was a mistake, and was terrible

[weak dune]

Carno AI was the worst

[barren zephyr]

It'd still be riddled with flaws inherently even if it performed correctedly in behaviours

[weak dune]

Idk what they were thinking

[outer sphinx]

just give us normal wildlife AI like boars ders etc and thats more than good enough

[barren zephyr]

no, Dinosaur AI sucks

the whole GREAT THING about The Isle was that the environment was player created

[outer sphinx]

why the no at the beggining? you still tired?

[barren zephyr]

AI, in legacy, was just there

[barren zephyr]

No, just woke up, but dinosaur AI was just simply a terrible idea

I'm excluding Legacy's dino AI Fodder.
because it was fodder

[outer sphinx]

true, i like the normal animal AI we have rn, could be better for sure but a way better idea

since none of them are playable

[barren zephyr]

I much more prefer Mammal/21st century animal AI

[weak dune]

I think dino AI as a backdrop or an option, but actually doing something besides roaming in circles, is just fine. Make herds actually migrate, stop and rest, "eat", "drink", run away or fight if a carni is near. Like, give AI an actual routine, and it would be fine.

But no, don't put AI in and expect it will play just like real people will. That's just ludicrous and way too much to aim for.

[outer sphinx]

so.. exactly what im saying, geez you really just woke up lol

[hot inlet]

then they should ask the guys who made RDR2 cause theyr Ai actually does such stuff

[barren zephyr]

That's still a tremendous order for this team

[barren zephyr]

note*
that's a Triple A team who made it

[weak dune]

Its really not. Its literally pathing AI on a spline.

[barren zephyr]

You'd have a flock of them stuck in ponds, rivers
Or falling off cliffs in mass muders like sheep

[weak dune]

They already do that though

[barren zephyr]

people thought AI, in the isle, were gonna be good.
Don't forget, trying to create an AI environment- making sure it lives and breathes is hard.
Especially with ONE AI programmer

[weak dune]

Yeah but if they're already dead-set on doing AI, they could at least make their expectations more reasonable. Having AI follow a target path is a lot easier than making AI behave "just like an intelligent player"

[barren zephyr]

Oh right lol

[barren zephyr]

premade target paths lead to metas and exploits.
I understand where you're going for- but the expectation really was to make AI with ONE DEV

you know- The Isle really tries to hire people who are interested in the job.
I know the devs are constantly hiring.

But please, try to hire someone (even if they don't care about dinosaurs) to help Amarok with AI

in the end- it's a job.
It's about the money

[versed forge]

I didn't say Utah though so I have no idea why that's relevant especially when the match-up was carnos vs Herrera

[weak dune]

I mean there are ways around it. But I'd rather have predictable moving herds than a teno staring off into space and 1-calling while you bite its face

[lavish quail]

Honestly i cant be bothered to check what i wrote

[barren zephyr]

honestly, I'd prefer nothing if we can't get "natural" AI

[lavish quail]

so ill get someone else to brb

Ok so that point was completely irrelevant

[weak dune]

Well, "natural" AI is... a pretty tall order even for a AAA studio

[barren zephyr]

Honestly.
Anything that can simply replicate a good fraction of RDR2 would be great

[meager tiger]

@weak dune 1. aren't those all mammals of wildy different habitats across the globe? 2. I've seen ideas of lean meat, fatty meat, organ, bones...etc. In a way you could both make it so hunting species X will get you nutrients...but not enough to sustain yourself. So you would always try to go after your preffered targets. However being punished during hard times where there barely any food and the only thing you killed is not on your list of preffered prey is stupid

[weak dune]

Yeah but RDR2 uh. Kinda worked their team into the ground to make that game

[barren zephyr]

I know.
We need more AI devs

[outer sphinx]

That one guy that just had to work on the horse AI

[weak dune]

Well, finding multiple animals from multiple places in the world was kind of the point of my post. Its not like there's just a single area of the world where specialist species develope

[weak dune]

[meager tiger]

mammals are more complex and consume more energy than other animals I think

Bigger brains, complex thinking

compared to a reptile bird thing with a walnut brain relying on instinct

[barren zephyr]

they don't need to be smart

[hot inlet]

the thing is RDR2 have pretty impressiv AI like Aniamls hunting each other or small birds taking a bath in the river
or cats hunting rats and birds
where it would not make any diffrence if it wouldnt be in the game
and games where it matters that the Ai works like this ...have in most cases the really bad AI XD

[weak dune]

Animals don't need to be smart to be specialist

[meager tiger]

well the point is they need more nutrients

to susatin themselves

Also what about point 2

do you disagree with that idea

[barren zephyr]

I know.
Most AI in multiplayer games suck because AI is not fun.
Hence why I'd prefer mammal ai.
They don't interfere with the environment that much- and most dinosaur playables.

and, don't need to be very sophisticated

[weak dune]

I did notice earlier that it seems like some of the Isle's AI attack/hunt other AI... they just don't do it intelligently. Boar attacking elite fish, utah attacking teno, etc. Problem is their AI is still pretty dumb and they attack, then break off, then randomly decide to attack again. Pretty sure their AI script is running some sort of timed tick check or something.

[hot inlet]

all the marine snails want to talk ,,,like a huge ton of them are just overerly specialized

also Birds need in most cases more stuff then mammals cause birds have a way higher body temperature

[weak dune]

Point 2?

[meager tiger]

I've seen ideas of lean meat, fatty meat, organ, bones...etc. In a way you could both make it so hunting species X will get you nutrients...but not enough to sustain yourself. So you would always try to go after your preffered targets. However being punished during hard times where there barely any food and the only thing you killed is not on your list of preffered prey is stupid

Was it Mirgiran delet magy dudes idea I think

[weak dune]

I mean its pretty difficult to not find preferred prey

[meager tiger]

but as more and more species are thrown in

it'll become harder and harder?

[outer sphinx]

rn, yea but think with 56 dinos

[barren zephyr]

gore update

[meager tiger]

iamgine theres 50 dead bodies everywhere and you can't eat any of them

because its not the 6 you want

[weak dune]

I mean I'm talking about what I know, not what I don't. We don't have 56 dinos. We have like. 9, with Troodon on the way. I'll save my opinions for a wider ecosystem when we actually have it. Plus, I figure the diet system will be tweaked and refined as more species are added. Likely we'll also see other AI added, or so I assume.

Carno, for instance, will probably have a wider selection of "small prey" to choose from

Deino will probably have more aquatic things to choose from like beipi and austro

etc

[outer sphinx]

a lot of which would prob live in forests

dryo and utah are some of the few small animals it could find in plains

[weak dune]

Depends really. Carno honestly does well most places except long falls lol

Might change when utah is fixed but that assumes it ever is

[outer sphinx]

carno is getting a huge nerf in agility so forests are a nogo for them now

[weak dune]

I mean maybe

Unless you're taking on a stego or teno, you can honestly just stand there and spam bite a lot of the time

[outer sphinx]

anything they would find there is by far more agile and more suited for a forest

[weak dune]

And adult carno can tank teno tail slams pretty well

[outer sphinx]

yet those can fight back and teno would be more in a swamp and stego in plains

[weak dune]

Possibly, but a lot of it depends on player behavior

Utah are supposed to be superior in the jungle/forest but most of them just hang out in plains lol

[outer sphinx]

bc all other dinos have to go there rn

[barren zephyr]

That was the whole premise of the argument

Nothing but debuffs and punishment on the ground

[outer sphinx]

from the start i saw how diets work after they got on QA i said ye this will be very punishing and unfun

[weak dune]

But that's only for 50% growth and up, and in Carno's case, it doesn't even need most of its diet to thrive

Baby carno and utah get nutrients from all sources

[barren zephyr]

Doesn't make it cool

[weak dune]

ptera too

[barren zephyr]

And juvie diets still suck

Bad system, they need to rework it

[weak dune]

But they get all 3 nutrients from all sources until sub adult

[outer sphinx]

so the adult kill whatever they find and cant eat it while the babies can?

[weak dune]

They can eat it, they just don't get buffs

[outer sphinx]

thats what i said

[weak dune]

"so the adult kill whatever they find and cant eat it while the babies can?"

[outer sphinx]

the adults will have to kill whatever they find so the babies can eat bc no debuffs while they cant and just look at them

[outer sphinx]

ye

[lavish quail]

ye

[outer sphinx]

i'd expect if they want to make utahs pack hunters they would all eat the same food

thats how pack hunting works

[weak dune]

I mean if you're starving and you have food there and you'd rather starve than not die until you find more food that's your choice

[barren zephyr]

I just think it's jarring to look at fresh food and think
"Fuck, there's not enough trans fat in this"

"Can't eat this shit"

Especially if I can only eat what I can catch

[outer sphinx]

with the fact they will add a mehcnic for food to rott since they mentioned that cera can eat food no matter how rotten it is will be a big factor to diets

[lavish quail]

HOLY SHIT 50% FAT MILK THAT WILL KILL ME

[weak dune]

...okay but do you seriously look at, idk, a bag of chips when you're hungry and go "It has empty carbs, guess I'll just starve and not eat because I only eat nutrients"?

[outer sphinx]

so you just made a point aganist diets...

[weak dune]

Uh, no lol

[barren zephyr]

broooo, it's accurate

[weak dune]

If you're hungry and its edible, you eat it

[barren zephyr]

Okay man

[lavish quail]

50% milk shall kill thy

[outer sphinx]

and now you got rotten teeth bc not on your prefered list

[barren zephyr]

We eat snacks for the indulgence

[weak dune]

You don't sit there stressing "okay but how much NUTRIENTS does this chip have?"

[weak dune]

Nice red herring lol

[barren zephyr]

Not for nutrition, and we still gain amount of calories from it

[lavish quail]

also without diets you cant limit creatures to certain areas, meaning if i looked for my diets it would say "teno, swamps" "Utah, wherever the fuck"

[outer sphinx]

true utah would still be a mess to put in diets since it can actually go wherever except swamps

[weak dune]

And I guess starving people who eat boot leather out of landfills in poor countries just love the chewiness

[barren zephyr]

Diets hardly work as is
And have Herbivores as leash

[outer sphinx]

herbis is good imo, just very lackluster rn

[lavish quail]

"teno swamps" "carno, utah, sucho, austro, ptera, deino, spino, rex, Wherever the fuck "

[outer sphinx]

carnis ared the problem of the mechanic

[barren zephyr]

Not fun being anchored by the game when there's so few spots to sustain myself

[weak dune]

I mean if you have 2% hunger left and a perfectly good corpse in front of you and refuse to eat it just because its not going to give you buffs, to each their own lol

[barren zephyr]

Sucks having Carni's resource camp

[outer sphinx]

well in the case of diets all except utah have defined biomes of preferince

[barren zephyr]

I don't think that's the case

[lavish quail]

Yeah, so hence carnivores should have diets to limit them to certain areas

[barren zephyr]

Just saying we shouldn't suffer debuffs or penalties for happening to eat what we were able to find

Debuffs for bad diets don't work for Carni's in the context of the game

Some things should debuff us ofc, like cannbalism or rotting corpses

[outer sphinx]

as i said, thats the main problem lackluster, we just need these spots to not be just plains and specific sposts in each part but just biome dependant, so x can spawn anywhere as long as its in a forest for ex

[barren zephyr]

But that should be specific

[weak dune]

Right, and my point was if you, in real life, live off of nothing but what is considered junk food to you, as per your species, you are going to suffer nutritional deficencies... which do, in real life, basically give you a debuff lol

I see no problem with having the system except "some people don't want it". Its borderline impossible to get a diet debuff as a carni unless you're just flat-out not playing the game/afking

[lavish quail]

I dont have nutrients so i turn into a ball and die is an accurate description of what should happen

[meager tiger]

no such thing as junk food for a animal

[lavish quail]

But Dw you only get a debuff

[meager tiger]

in the wild

[outer sphinx]

should coconuts for ex spawn in the same spot everytime?

[weak dune]

[barren zephyr]

Especially if you're an obligate carnivore

[meager tiger]

ah yes bears grow unhealthy eating berries and fish

[barren zephyr]

The Carni's in this game don't have the leisure to have junk food and snacks

[weak dune]

Berries and fish are a bear's diet lmao

[meager tiger]

atleast its any kind of berry

and fish

not red berries and fuck all other berries

[lavish quail]

Carni diets = good
no carni diets = bad

[barren zephyr]

Lmao

[meager tiger]

not 1 fish species and fuck all other fiesh

being picky gets you killed

[weak dune]

Uh, no. Poisonous berries exist lol

[meager tiger]

poison is poison

do animals love poison? does any animal eat poison. Use your head

[barren zephyr]

There's some considerably poisonous plants that animals still eat from

[weak dune]

"at least its any kind of berry"

[meager tiger]

Yeah

Any non poison berry. Dumbass

[barren zephyr]

Oh it's joe, the sauropod guy

[lavish quail]

this

[meager tiger]

Ah yes lets eat a plant that kills me

[barren zephyr]

Thought I recognized you

[meager tiger]

Great Idea

let me go drink some acid while im at it

[hot inlet]

actually a lot of animals can eat poison stuff like certain mushrooms who would simply kill you (a human)

[meager tiger]

and rub my ass with a cactus

[weak dune]

Except bears are picky about their fish lol

[meager tiger]

yeah but guess what

[lavish quail]

Thats because its in its dietary needs

[meager tiger]

they eat fish parts. Not species

Bears eat fish brains

[barren zephyr]

Anywho

[weak dune]

[barren zephyr]

Carni diets suck, and shopping for prey is lame

[weak dune]

Honestly that told me all I needed to know lol

[barren zephyr]

They're obligate carnivores, they don't have the leisures like a herbivore does when they feed

[weak dune]

A lynx is also an obligate carnivore, and it starves without snowshoe hares to eat

[outer sphinx]

hmm, gonna try to think for smth that will make players have to go in their respective biomes where their "prefered food" exists while not beeing as punishing/ a choore

[meager tiger]

I really don't understand why people hate the whole eat certain body parts idea like organ bone muscles...etc

[barren zephyr]

It's a banger idea

Guy is a tragic hero who came up with that concept

[meager tiger]

you still get semi punished for eating wrong meals. you cannot survive soley on them

[outer sphinx]

its literally whats coming with gore

[barren zephyr]

An advocate for Herbivores

[weak dune]

Nobody said they don't, but that doesn't mean that all species should give nutrients equally to all carnivores

[barren zephyr]

What

Who said that

[meager tiger]

well yeah? A rabbit doesnt have like any fatty meat

its a lean animal

[outer sphinx]

but what happenes when lets say utahs like heart and one of the pack members eats it, what do the res do? fuck around till the next hunt?

[meager tiger]

a squid doesnt have any bones

[weak dune]

I already talked earlier about things like rabbit and how you can literally starve to death eating wild rabbit because of how lean they are lol

[meager tiger]

well wolves have a pecking order and alpha gets first dibs

the rest are gonna fight for scraps

[barren zephyr]

There's other organs

[meager tiger]

So whoever is alpha raptor, gets to eat first

[barren zephyr]

Organs are highly nutritious, I'm indigenous and it's common practice to eat a couple of them

[weak dune]

There's multiple organs but in nature generally "pack leaders" get the best organs and the rest of the pack gets the "lesser" or the muscle tissue and fat etc

[left nacelle]

Since you mentioned legacy, I'm going to assume you're referring to legacy with this suggestion. Evrima doesn't have the same issues as legacy does. In evrima, sure you'll be able to play as an apex anytime, but it's going to be challenging to make it to the adult stage with all the new mechanics coming to the game. Bringing back progression would definitely split the playerbase, just like it did 4 years ago, and even when progression was a thing, you still has big packs of apexes running around so it didn't really fix much anyway. Due to evrima having a lot more small creatures, and every creature being unique, there will likely be more people running around as smaller animals, even when apexes are added

As for some sort of goal/gameplay loop/purpose, that's where elders come in. Surviving for a long time and meeting certain requirements will cause you to grow into an elder. This will make you stronger at first, but then slowly make you weaker until you die of old age. If you manage to die of old age, you'll get perks applied to the dino next time you play as it. The elder system is optional tho, if you don't meet the elder requirements, you won't grow into an elder and you'll just keep living

[outer sphinx]

true, this should be emphasized, so we need more diverse organsm how would categorizing them in 3-4 tiers, small/ mid large etc

[meager tiger]

TEXT WALL

[barren zephyr]

hf

[meager tiger]

lol

[left nacelle]

Sorry lol

[barren zephyr]

it's cool

[meager tiger]

twas a joke

[barren zephyr]

Anyways
I believe the carni diets should only be a placeholder rn

And should be based off of gore and species specific meat types

[outer sphinx]

and the rest of the pack still somewhat manages to survive of the scraps, while here you'd get debuffed, also we have no alpha system

[left nacelle]

That's exactly what the plan is. Carnivores will be eating specific organs from specific prey

[weak dune]

Honestly the main problem I see is how targeting for unique organs would be handled, unless the game treats it as "first person to eat X percentage gets the best organs", with diminishing returns per how much percentage of the overall corpse is left.

As it stands, targeting for eating, drinking, and dragging/chunks is fucky so

[barren zephyr]

Everything else like biomes will be circumvented by features, abilities, and viability

[meager tiger]

simple. ALpha is the guy who leads and is the biggest and anyone who wants to kill him to take his spot is welcome

[weak dune]

Not yet, but supposedly we're getting one, I think. Least I've heard people talk about it

[meager tiger]

do we really "need" a alpha system

[barren zephyr]

The organ feature would limit pack sizes as well

[meager tiger]

it's not that hard to just iamgine there is one?

[barren zephyr]

So we can't have 20 Utah's growing at the corner of a map

[meager tiger]

and fight someone who dares to break the order

[barren zephyr]

Unless they bring down giant prey

Regularly

[outer sphinx]

iirc the devs werent too keen for an alpha system

[meager tiger]

see

[barren zephyr]

Alpha system is cringe tbh

[outer sphinx]

i mean. isnt that just group limts?

[weak dune]

Eh idk if we need one and I don't care if we get one

[meager tiger]

fuck group limits. People just follow eachother anyway lol

[barren zephyr]

group limits are arbitrary

[left nacelle]

Nah an alpha system is planned. You can challenge the alpha/herd leader to take over the position and get specific buffs

[barren zephyr]

They don't work

[weak dune]

Pack sizes are only ever limited by how many people can stick to an area and not get murdered or starve to death

[meager tiger]

I hate how theres a group limit. Doesnt even do anything but a annnoyance.

[outer sphinx]

when was that confirmed?

[barren zephyr]

Actual mechanics limited by food costs tho

That works

[left nacelle]

Dondi said it on stream, and devs have mentioned it a few times on here

[meager tiger]

I want group sizes to be based on food around the area and people natrually dying

[barren zephyr]

I'm gonna be cringing at alpha roleplayers

[outer sphinx]

hm, interesting

[weak dune]

Problem with that is certain species become a problem, like carno megapacks. Although tbh the diet system's current iteration has staved a lot of that off

I've seen a lot less "30 carnos in one place"

[meager tiger]

group limit doesnt do anything though. I had carnis following my pack and sticking with us still

even though we couldnt see name tags

[outer sphinx]

theres a saying in game dev; players will optimize thefun out of the game if allowed to this right here is smth needed to be addressed for the game

[meager tiger]

it's just annoyance

[weak dune]

I mean it all ultimately comes down to player behavior. It might actually function more if carni cannibalism actually worked like they keep putting in the UI

[left nacelle]

If you search punch's messages and serch for the word "alpha" there is one message that comes up confirming the alpha system

[barren zephyr]

Cannibalism should be harsher tbh

[weak dune]

Depends on the species, and I think its supposed to be but they've only finished one part of it

I don't think hallucinations are in, infertility hardly matters right now

Carno's are supposed to have cannibalism as adults but you still get the canni debuff

[left nacelle]

It will be. Right now one of the effects for it on the character menu says "May go Insane" but we don't know what that is yet and it isn't in game yet

[weak dune]

Its hallucinations

[barren zephyr]

I thought it was just biting randomly for shit all

[outer sphinx]

all we have rn that makes much of an impact is muscle spams really

[weak dune]

That's muscle spasms

[outer sphinx]

thats muscle spams

[barren zephyr]

damn

[weak dune]

Its fine cuz I originally thought that too lol

[outer sphinx]

the only debuff that actually does shit, other than slower growth

may go insane is halucination iirc

[left nacelle]

Do you have confirmation of that? iirc Punch said he can't reveal it yet. And it would make dilos venom less unique if cannibalism also causes hallucinations

[weak dune]

We don't have hallucinations yet though

[weak dune]

I mean we don't know if it'll be "the same" hallucinations

[left nacelle]

But do you have confirmation of it being hallucinations at all

[outer sphinx]

iirc its not the visual hallucinations of dilo but audible ones

[weak dune]

Yeah I think its hearing stuff that isn't there

[outer sphinx]

thats what mushrooms do, a combo of both visual and audible

[weak dune]

So you might go chasing prey that doesn't exist or running from a predator that's not there and give yourself away

[outer sphinx]

thats the insanity debuff since its the only one that makes sense

[left nacelle]

Sorry I keep asking this, but where was this all confirmed?

[outer sphinx]

i think a dev said once about audible halucinations or smth like this before tho not sure

[left nacelle]

So far I've only found proof of them saying mushrooms will cause hallucinations

Oh there we go, I found them saying cannibalism will cause it. Cool I'm satisfied lol

[left nacelle]

You're a little late lol

[outer sphinx]

Also whatever the fuck insanity means in TI

[weak dune]

Ya but other people can see it too lol

insanity = hallucinations

[outer sphinx]

That'd make sense, I'd expect muscle spasms too ngl

[weak dune]

You get both

muscle spasms + hallucinations + infertility all at once

[left nacelle]

And now that I'm not on mobile, here's a message that confirms the alpha system. It's not the first mention of it tho #isle-discussion message

[outer sphinx]

Ye seen it too... interesting and curious what that means in terms of buffs

[left nacelle]

Yeah, and iirc taking over the alpha doesn't mean killing them, you like spar with them

[outer sphinx]

I can imagine how it would look for beipis

[weak dune]

https://tenor.com/view/trex-slap-fight-dino-dinosaur-fight-gif-11007826

[zealous violet]

The thing is tho, How would you identify if someone has lost their apex to 'something stupid' rather than an honest fight, a bug or other players being stupid? You cant. Unless someone is sitting around spectating you at all times, which is impossible at this time, then theres no way you could manage that.

[barren zephyr]

I mean, what @barren zephyr said isn't wrong.
There is a cheating issue.

However, Legacy wont be deleted until Evrima properly surpasses it

I presume the mute was either for that feedback or another.

but hackers are still in-game.
Both Legacy and Evrima

[celest basin]

@barren zephyr Achievements should only be unlockable on officials so players don't get free achievements

@zealous violet I would love to see some merc warehouses which dinos can enter

[barren zephyr]

Yeah, I like that

I don't even disagree with that.
Unofficials can allow for easy exploits.

[outer sphinx]

ye cooldowns is def not the way to go to insentivise player choice of a specific character

[muted isle]

What happened to the visibility under water as deino? I can see like 1 meter infront of me

[barren zephyr]

@barren zephyr the cheaters are what is making legacy unplayable and they are one of the reasons for a recode, the other being that legacy is horribly coded

[crude girder]

@odd token the bug reports channel isn’t new, it was just made more visible

It was made about a year ago

[lavish quail]

Also it goes directly to QA i believe

So it’s fixed or proven as fast as possible

[paper geyser]

the fact that people think the bug report channel is new says quite a lot tbf

[barren zephyr]

it does

[signal beacon]

<@&401466542140817419> it's in the feedback channel lmao

Oh he ded lmao

Thanks

[barren zephyr]

what do u think about the river enviroment? i think its a bit too shallow at the shore. the land dinosaurs will see the crocs too early when theyre approaching. wbu?

[peak wedge]

Honestly as far as ive seen the water being shallow isnt the problem, its the ripples. Once youre at the dino to the point they can see you you can chase them down quickly, but if they see you from forever away because of the ripples theyll run far away by the time you get there

[manic flint]

Makes some rivers safe
At least some parts of it

[outer sphinx]

rn iirc there are a lot of shallwo rivers so deinos barely get any chance to kill smth

[peak wedge]

Once you get away from center it really is too shallow, because you cant swim, but around center is good, and in my experience if you're big enough to be wandering around away from center, you're big enough to defend yourself on land

[outer sphinx]

like shallwo rivers would make sense in some parts especially if crocs will stay in swamps too but rn its just a mess in many ways

[peak wedge]

There was a huge stretch of non swimmable water i hunted in as a 50% or so deino. People always underestimate how fast you are and strong you are, so I had no trouble running things down, but people below that should stay around center where are the cocky juvies are

[hot inlet]

@lavish quail
the whole Cera dumbster diving idea is bad cause not realistic
and at the same time ...watchign today some JWE2 gameplay and there was an Albertosaurus (who is bigger then a Cerato) who needet threatment cause it swollowed a phone XD
cause this is sooo realistic haha

[lavish quail]

Realism cringe

large racoon is a gamer moment

[manic sun]

Cera should be like a honey badger, going around for corpses and claiming them if u want to fuck around with it, it´ll turn the tables

[hot inlet]

some already against this idea

[lavish quail]

Thats based

My body now!

[manic sun]

fools, what else should cera do? It should be an absolute chad claiming corpses and bitching around with anything that dares to attack it

Strong defense/resistance, decent dmg good speed

[hot inlet]

yesterday when we had this stuff i got the
Bears can do it but Cerato dont cause Cerato is to big
polarbears can search in trash and they can weight up to 400 kg
and real Cerato had only a weight about 500 kg +

so saying Cera should not cause its to big ...well the isle Cera is to big anyway with over 1 ton

[manic sun]

who cares tho, fuck realism, fun superior

[lavish quail]

Big trash dumpters?

It would be fucking awesome that the thing

troodons and shit could eat trash bags too that would be cool

[hot inlet]

well you missed then yesterday the convo haha

[lavish quail]

You missed the whole oh its not realistic i dont like it -_- convo

[manic sun]

I did and I´m glad I did so

[lavish quail]

Yeah it was fucking aweful

[hot inlet]

maybe not even "eating" but just making bad stuff like ramming stuff over
or flipping a table in an base XD

[lavish quail]

too much paleo nerd stuff and realism

[hot inlet]

but theyr ok with an 1.2 t Cerato when in "realism" it weightet less then 600 kg

[manic sun]

they should add an rule: No HEAVY realism for game purposes

[lavish quail]

Heavy realism sucks ass

Oh no Utah doesnt have feathers UwU guess i cant play evrima!

[manic sun]

U have a cera home? Weighed it? Utahs have no feathers ingame does that bother u? Rex was actually an endurance hunter. Troodon didn´t even exist. hmhmhmhmhmh?

[hot inlet]

yes i have an Cera at home his name is Swiper XD

[lavish quail]

I also have a cera at home

someone made me a cool primal carnage figurine one

It has the ocean skin thing aswell

very cool

@lusty hamlet drag a body to a nest

[hot inlet]

one funny thing i have also seen in JWE2 today ...
Allo actually likes Cerato
like ...why

but at the same time it could be that they went with the whole these two where not competing with each other like many belive

[lavish quail]

boom ez eggs

[hot inlet]

mhm and this wouldnt be fun

[lavish quail]

Also its cool to have carnis work together

[outer sphinx]

hyena? since ceras role is more or less exactly that of a hyena...

[manic sun]

ootah

[outer sphinx]

utah can be so many examples of animals rn so doesnt work

[manic sun]

it should be a pack hunter not a honey badger

[lavish quail]

ootah best pack boi

[manic sun]

^

[hasty dagger]

Uhh.. Cera was definitely not 600kg irl

[lavish quail]

Paleonerdddd

Literally doesnt matter since ours is 1.2

[manic sun]

who cares about fucking realism can we stop bringing up the topic fucking annoying

[hasty dagger]

Our Cerato doesn’t even have a confirmed size

And 1.2 tons is perfectly reasonable

[lavish quail]

big cera best cera

[outer sphinx]

cera doesnt work as a honey badger, it doesnt have loose skin which is one of the main traits of oh a honey badger, and also we cant say if it was as stubborn as one, its a scavanger and a honey badger isnt one, its rare one goes and nicks kills of hyenas, lions or leopards, hyenas on the other hand are very adept scavangers and hunters, traits that fit the role cera was given

[outer sphinx]

cera was between ~650 to 1.2t

[manic sun]

dude, give cera good resistance in bleed and dmg give it a grab, it´s more about how a honey badger works if it gets annoyed it annihalites its foes same goes for cera except it uses that to get corpses

[lavish quail]

No one cares

Like fr

[manic sun]

^

[lavish quail]

get yo paleo nerd shit outa here

[outer sphinx]

and seeing the curent roster i'd expect they make it 1.2t

[hot inlet]

you know we have i thin k3 or 4 diffrent Ceratosaurs
from 4 places so they could varie a lot

[manic sun]

no one knows so stop it

[outer sphinx]

the devs do, as they said they will look to make each addition as realistic/accurate as they can

[lavish quail]

Utah exists

[outer sphinx]

utah is at least a plausible pack hunter, and design is just obvious dondis JP dreams

[hot inlet]

wasnt it disproved thast utah huntet in packs ?

[hasty dagger]

Utah is nothing like The Isle Utah

[outer sphinx]

how, we know cera is a real dinosaur so we can estimate its weight, and we have a few specimens too

[lavish quail]

Thats because its fun

[outer sphinx]

that was deynonichus which was the other plausible pack hunter so now we are left with one, not confirmed but plausible

[lavish quail]

Utah is based fuck you dawg

[outer sphinx]

nah utah is a plausible pack hunter for now unless new research comes, its main problem is just design really

[manic sun]

sure we can estimate the weight but I don´t really want realism to be the base of the game, if smth is plausible for realism but bad for balancing then I think the choice should be quite easy

[lavish quail]

Its design is awesome

[hot inlet]

yeah but theyr kinda think this was more like mob hunting then pack hunting

even young deinonychus ate somethign diffrent then the adults
so if they lived in a pack and shared kills why would the young ones eat somethign else
at least that was i have read last i checked

[outer sphinx]

but realism is the base of evrima, all weighst are based on the real weights, ofc balancing will change things like attacks health etc, but weighst are limited to what is known

[outer sphinx]

ye that was deynonichus, for utah we dont have stuff like this but could come up, for now its just plausible