general-feedback-discussion

[limber hull]

plus, if we can learn how to exploit them, an AI utah/teno would be great free food because they would likely be dumb as shit based on how the dryo acts

[karmic plank]

I don't think the dryo is indicative of future AI behaviour

But hard to see how they couldn't be exploited

[limber hull]

honestly, if they just wanted to add animal AI and not dino AI, I'd be fine with animals acting how the dryo does

because AI is dumb and very VERY hard to make smart

[weak dune]

I mean I don't really mind it and it helps out smaller pop servers a lot I'm sure. Also helps slightly mitigate players getting killed purely because someone else is too hungry not to kill them, including cannibalizing juvies, but that'll only help mitigate killing by players who only kill to eat, not to play Dino PvP Brawler Simulator

[limber hull]

but a big point of the game, imo, is the player on player interaction and killing

[weak dune]

I mean the people who want to PK are going to do it anyway

AI or no

Its just an extra option for those who don't want to

[limber hull]

i dont want to hunt AI, and this idea basically is heavily favoured in the way of solo dinos and apexes rather than pack creatures, as the easier food from AI dinos makes playing apex much easier, while the difficulty in finding an actual player sharing your species makes pack dinos harder

[weak dune]

I mean, just opt out of hunting AI unless you're on the verge of starving then? You can just choose to ignore the AI

[limber hull]

literally how do I tell which is which lmao, not like there's a system differentiating the two

also why would I hunt players when there is an easier source of food wandering around like an idiot which I can learn how to abuse its AI and live easy

[weak dune]

I mean if the Utah and Teno AI is gonna be anything like the Dryo AI is now, it won't be that hard to tell really

[limber hull]

exactly

it'll be dumb as shit and easy kills

for free food

[weak dune]

As for "why would I hunt players instead of AI"... because you want to? Its a choice, not an obligation. Options aren't the devil

[limber hull]

its far more logical for me to hunt easy, stupid prey over difficult, player controlled prey which actually can react better

[weak dune]

Its also a game. Play how you enjoy it

[limber hull]

and if i play pure PvP, there are others who are farming AI in some desolate corner because that's the optimal way to play. If the act of having fun and playing in a way that isn't easy as fuck actively puts me at a disadvantage and in more danger, why should I do that? Why not play humans all the time, since the dinos will be AI for me, so I'm covered no matter what. IMO, it's just a flawed concept that takes away from player agency and just gives humans and apexes more enjoyment because they either don't feel obligated to play dinos or don't need to actively fight other players

with goats and shit being AI, at least that AI isn't trying to replicate the complex mechanics of a player playing the same dino and I can immediately tell what is AI and what isn't

and rexes cant survive off goats alone

[weak dune]

Still a choice. If a game isn't fun for me to play, I just don't play it, personally speaking. There's only so many ways you can change a game to appeal to one side of the game (the people who just want to PvP) before you're completely tossing aside the other side of the player base who wants to play differently than you (the people who want PvE options).

I'd say the best fix would be for the devs to program server options (being able to customize AI spawn values, being able to control how many of X species are allowed on a server, et cetera). But at the moment, that doesn't seem to be the case as far as I can tell (could be wrong, I don't admin any servers).

But if you're upset about Officials specifically, I'd say you probably shouldn't be playing Officials then, as they're going to curtail to what the game devs themselves want the game to be, and they've already stated directly that the game is already too PvP-Death-Match-centric and needed to be balanced more away from that.

[limber hull]

i understand that, but making the game too easy takes away from a lot of the charm imo. A lot of the difficulty comes from the fact that you are hunting other players that REALLY don't feel like dying, and will kick your shit in for trying to kill them. I like the difficulty of hunting other players, but with the addition of AI which has the same dietary gains, same food gains and same strategies to defeat, except it's 3x dumber, it makes the game actively say "NO, don't go after that player, you are actively putting yourself at a disadvantage for doing so"

[weak dune]

Right, which I understand. But there are also people who really don't want to play that game. The result is you either end up with PvP servers where everyone just wants to brawl and KOS everyone else, or you get "FREE GROW" hippy servers where everyone lounges around. There needs to be a balance somewhere in the middle.

[limber hull]

As for the argument "don't play on officials", I live in Aus, we only have official as a playable server (and even then, our AU official server is currently very dead dead)

Also I equally hate freegrow servers

[weak dune]

I've played one of those servers on Evrima one time because I needed to figure out some mechanics without the KOS risk on Officials (kept dying without being able to test what I needed lol). Nothing but a sea of 100% grown dinos just hanging around getting free admin feeding and immediately KOSing me in a giant mix-pack for daring to attack them lol

[limber hull]

I do want a middle ground of sorts, as you say, but adding animal AI is the PERFECT middle ground. The AI supports the lower members of the carnivore food chain, which support larger and larger carnivores. It slowly scales up until you have all the big guys supported by the little guys supported by the AI

Shit like rexes, spinos and gigas should be HARD to survive as, you need to rely on your ability to find adequate food, and the AI should not suffice in that regard. Be it through scavenging, hunting or anything of that sort, you should primarily be eating other players

[weak dune]

Eh I wouldn't necessarily say "perfect" middle ground. I also kinda see where the Devs are coming from with the uncertainty of "is this a player or an AI". We can probably figure it out with time and practice based on behavior and AI response but the uncertainty of it also keeps you on your ties. Someone might assume a player is an AI, hell some players might even pretend to be AI, and then turn around and fuck you up.

In Legacy, you already knew what was AI with Oro and the likes. You could just charge in with no hesitation which I don't think is 100% a good thing.

[limber hull]

In legacy, you could pretty much survive entirely off AI, even as apexes with the ava AI being really dumb but also a great source of food, hence the massive apex overpopulation

[weak dune]

The AI (Oro, Ava, whatever that other small one was) was also exclusive to AI outside of Sandbox

There was no "is this a player" question

Unless you were just a total newb

[limber hull]

yea, true, but I kinda liked that. I didn't like that it was easy food, but I liked I knew it wasn't a player lmao

[weak dune]

I only really liked it because then I could avoid fighting players if I wanted to. But that's its own problem lol

[limber hull]

the whole "is this a player" doesn't work in an environment where shit like utahraptors and tenos REALLY like having others of their kind around. Kinda lame if you've been looking for a pack of your own and end up with AI rather than players

[weak dune]

If your goal is to fight players, honestly it should be the opposite, in terms of hesitation. Unless AI is going to fight back, you can just disengage and look for a player somewhere else

Eh somewhat

I've seen a lot of players who want to pack with AI though

Plus they can be a benefit depending on how AI works

[limber hull]

yea i doubt that's gonna work tho

[weak dune]

If AI Teno actually fight back and chase, might not be so useless

Which streams have implied they will

[limber hull]

true, but again, it just feels like because it's an AI, people will quickly make easy work of it

[weak dune]

I mean if there's no counter-play to bucking and trees, might not be as bad as its being made to sound

[limber hull]

it may chase you, sure, but what if you do something the AI isn't prepared for? What if the teno sees a baby deino and fucking hurtles itself into a river, giving an adult free food??

[weak dune]

I mean player Teno's already hurtle into rivers to kill Deino so nothing changes lol

[limber hull]

it just will end up being easy farms because of stupidity

[weak dune]

I would agree with you but actual players are pretty dumb a lot of the time

[limber hull]

also having to rely on AI being dumb and not understanding strategies used to counter utah as a utah makes utah even lamer. It ACTIVELY has to hunt AI, because the AI is dumb and exploitable, and leaves normal players alone because the normal players can just hard counter it. The matchup isn't solved, its just bandaged with AI that can take the place of stupid players, because utah automatically loses against smart ones

[weak dune]

I mean I'd just say program things like bucking into AI

They've been working on AI since like. Update 2, at least? And are going to keep working on it, I imagine. Ideally AI won't be totally helpless

Easier, yes, because it can't actually think, but not helpless

[limber hull]

it is just my personal opinion that creating a very complex dino with specific playstyles and abilities and making that AI is much more work and effort than its worth than making like, a goat, which can be made from the ground up as AI, while also fitting better into the ecosystem, as its small size makes it a morsel rather than a meal and still encourages some level of player v player

[weak dune]

I suppose, but people are also playing a dino game to see dinos running around, not farm animals

Frankly there is no server player population right now that can actually make dinos as abundant as they need to be on all parts of the map. You only really see a lot of dinos when you congregate at a hotspot like the south pond

[limber hull]

eh, watching a utahraptor tear a goat to shreds sounds fun to me, and I wasn't too surprised considering humans are also going to be added, and the game is clearly in a modern setting

[weak dune]

Oh I'm not saying its a bad addition. I'm gonna have fun seeing goats around. Which we're also getting. I'm just saying people want actual dinos populating the map, and AI dinos will make the island feel more inhabited.

[paper oriole]

Ai dinos should stay small because they are going to be stupid as shit

And we dont need stupid as shit ai feeding rexes

[weak dune]

Depends how diets work

[paper oriole]

Not really, a rex can look for players

It doesnt need an ai trike that runs in circles until its stam runs out

[limber hull]

honestly, I'm more on team better netcode and larger server sizes in this regard. I'd love to see a massive player-driven ecosystem, and while I understand its difficult, I'm massively for improving netcode to allow for bigger server sizes and expanding diversity.

[weak dune]

You might have rexes feeding on AI with shit stats because they can't find what they need, whining in discord their 20 rex pack needs a buff because they're not playing it right

[paper oriole]

And?

Let them cry

Let them die

[weak dune]

I mean

I'm not disagreeing

At all

lol

[weak dune]

My thoughts exactly

[paper oriole]

The dead stupid rexes that try to live off of ai can feed scavengers

Thats all they deserve

[weak dune]

"My mega rex pack can't fight for shit because we're not eating its diet and playing it right, buff Rex, nerf everything else, wahwah"

[limber hull]

AI rexes are planned

[weak dune]

I doubt they'll be in for a long time though

[paper oriole]

God help us all

[weak dune]

It took 4 updates to get AI Utah and Teno even though its been public knowledge since U2 they were working on them

Rex ain't coming that soon I would bet

[limber hull]

i do not believe an AI rex will be a "terrifying beast" like the devs expect, but rather "GUYS AI REX"
"OH SHIT WE HAVING A FUCKING BIG-ASS MEAL TONIGHT BOYS"

[paper oriole]

Rex ai that barges through thick foliage to kos your fresh spawn juvie cerato that was clearly hidden in the undergrowth, then it runs into a river and drowns

[limber hull]

absolutely

[weak dune]

Honestly that's the one major problem I have with AI

[paper oriole]

The isle

[weak dune]

They can just heat seek on you

Line of sight isn't a thing

[limber hull]

i fuckin' bet a lot of the bigger AIs will be immune to stealth because there's no way you can adequately code an AI to have equal receptiveness as a human

dev-supported bush exploiters

[weak dune]

No but there are ways to set detection radius cones and such. Case in point: Skyrim

[paper oriole]

Imagine if we get maia ai that acts like the dryo ai and koses all juvies

[weak dune]

I don't think Dryo does that anymore

It used to tho

[paper oriole]

It was hilarious

[weak dune]

It did it to herbis too

[paper oriole]

Yeah it attacked my hypsi lol

Vicious

[weak dune]

Same

Honestly I'd say give AI "detection cones" appropriate to their line of sight. Forward cones for predators, side-cones for herbis

[paper oriole]

I think that if its possible, ai count should depend on server pop. As more players get on a server, large animal ai in unpopulated areas should despawn and eventually only leave small animal ai on active servers

Probably be hard to do though

[weak dune]

Depends on how AI actually behaves but yeah.

I mean not really

Servers already track player population

[paper oriole]

I think populated servers have no excuse to need large animal ai

[weak dune]

Just have the server calculate how many players and create a multiplier. The lower the population, the more AI spawns, and mark different AI to different levels of priority

Schooling fish should be the least affected

[paper oriole]

Yeah thatd probably work

[weak dune]

So large AI like Rex would have high priority of being disabled, and then it scales down, with the smallest AI having the lowest priority of deactivation

[odd sedge]

After I watched my Hypsi get grinded into Hypsi nuggets for the eighth time in a row by a dryo ai, I feel a deep fear reawakening inside of me any time I hear the unholy screeches of the speed demon

[paper oriole]

1. Schooling fish, insect and frogs/lizards
2. Bottom tier dinosaurs

Would be all thats needed on a packed server

[weak dune]

Pretty much, yeah

[paper oriole]

Dryo returning to its carnivore days from old legacy

[weak dune]

I mean I could see a couple of outlying rare big spawns on occasion but it wouldn't be like "Here's 20 rexes and 60 tenos and 30 stego AI" etc

More like "here's the 1 Rex AI on the whole server, good luck finding it"

[paper oriole]

I think that if a server has a high pop no large ai should continue to spawn unless they have easter egg/rarespawn ai planned that fits in the category

[weak dune]

Well yeah, no continued spawn, just not having whatever large AI is already there just vanish from existence unless its in a cell entirely away from any player population

[paper oriole]

Not even just a rare normal rex or trike or maia or anything else substantially large ai if the server is populated

If one ai is left over from the despawns then idk

[odd sedge]

Is still ai still getting Player behavior?

[weak dune]

Allegedly

[paper oriole]

If it's a full server then all apex and large food drop ai should be gone

[weak dune]

There's what they want and there's what they can achieve. Tl;dr We'll see

[paper oriole]

Not sure how they plan on imitating player behavior unless they are wanting to imitate bottom-of-the-barrel and bush/gamma hacker players

[weak dune]

lol

[odd sedge]

Such a shame

Animal-behavior >>>>>> player-behavior.

I want my Big maia herds

[paper oriole]

Same tbh

[weak dune]

I mean if you consider how many dumb things players do in the Isle already, then yeah it could mimic player behaviors lol

[odd sedge]

Not maias running around kosing because they can

[paper oriole]

But theyd probably either be aggro death stampedes or free food

[weak dune]

Honestly on the aggro issue, I'd say set some leashed behavior

[paper oriole]

Imagine being like a lone juvie utah and suddenly 15 maias burst out of the trees and turn you into paste before racing off to find their next unsuspecting victim

[weak dune]

And aggro conditions like getting attacked first

Also threaten displays prior to attack should be an AI behavior tbh

[paper oriole]

Depends on the ai

[weak dune]

For like big herbis, I mean

Teno and Stego for instance

[odd sedge]

Death stampedes yes, but aggro no.
I imagine it's like with animals.
If one maia starts running away from a predator it spotted, the next one will run until the entire herd stampedes.
This makes predators pick carefully which specimen to take on, preferably the small and weak ones without getting knocked over and trampled

[weak dune]

I kind of think of it like in Skyrim. Some enemies would just straight up attack you, but others would warn you off within a certain distance, like traveling bandits would pull out a weapon and say "I'm warning you!", wolves would snap their teeth and bark. They'd only attack if you lingered too long or came closer.

[odd sedge]

And sure, if you are a juvi in their way, you are a happy meal

[weak dune]

If you had behavior mods you got even more nuance, like with Realistic Predators and Wildlife or w/e, lone wolves would run and yelp, but as soon as you had multiple wolves they'd attack

[odd sedge]

And if the pack of carnivores is smart, they can part the herd and slowly lead away the singled out prey

[weak dune]

Personally I'd kinda like to see that sort of behavior with things like Utah AI, where it'll wait until its paired up with another Utah (player or AI) to attack/hunt anything bigger than it, or something to that effect

Or if multiple Utah AI are around, the last survivors of that pack will flee

[odd sedge]

If the majority of the pack is killed, the rest will flee

5 Utahs, 3 die, last 2 run away and give up

[limber hull]

honestly, i wish there was more incentive to threaten away attackers than immediately go in for a fight. But maybe when more dinos share weight classes we'll see more of that

currently they just bumrush you into oblivion

[karmic plank]

Injuries and stamina taking longer to heal would help

Call me crazy but I kinda think herbivores should have longer heal times than carnivores

[wanton hull]

@barren zephyr I personally liked legacies nightvision in theory. The problem was gamma users and the lack of range.
I hope youll be able to see clearly with the new nightvision or at least easily identify range and location since accuracy will be so important

[limber hull]

i hope gamma users just do not get any info

in NV patch

everyone should be equal

[wanton hull]

I don’t think they should neglect the legacy nightvision only because it was poorly balanced and v3 was too bright

I preferred playing on thenyaw since there it was to dark too use gamma so I didn’t have to fear being sees without seeing the apex

[paper oriole]

If they have a less shit looking version of nightvision that fades in involuntarily and isn’t disruptive it could just screw over people who pump their gamma up maybe

Not that eyebleed shit from legacy

[limber hull]

i noticed that too, it was strangely bright on v3

[wanton hull]

At least the old night vision allowed you to see everything clearly once you got in range

Which might be a problem for the new NV since you wont see well at any distance in a game that requires more accuracy then before

[weak dune]

I don't really think its crazy at all. Especially for big herbivores like Stego. I'm not exactly some medical professional but I do know that eating flesh helps repair flesh, IRL. So carnivores ideally should have a better heal rate, scaling with size (smaller carnis heal fastest, large apex carnis heal slowest ; juvies also heal much faster than FG). The difference just shouldn't be so huge that a carni is healing in a bush ready to go again in 3 minutes while an herbi takes an hour, or some such huge gap.

[paper oriole]

Balance > realism though

In 90% of the cases the carni initiates the fight, it doesnt deserve to heal faster as well

Heal rates should base on playstyle not faction

[limber hull]

tbf, herbis having more health but slower healing makes sense to me. Would make herbis more cautious to run into fights, but they should be well equipped to deal with them when the time comes

[paper oriole]

The bigass herbis and many other ones arent the ones running in to a fight though lol

A stego isnt gonna run somebody down, it has to wait for an opponent to come to it and it cant choose to flee

[limber hull]

but take a tenonto for example

[paper oriole]

Aggro Brawlers are a maybe, most herbis no

A trike doesn’t deserve a shittier heal rate than the rex who had full control of the confrontation

[limber hull]

id say a trike deserves more health than a rex however

[lavish quail]

@barren zephyr tf you mean legacy

[azure wadi]

I’m pretty sure they were talking about evrima nights which are quite long and don’t have night vision

[limber hull]

eh

in comparison

[lavish quail]

yeah ik

and no tf they arent

not on high graphics

did officials just shut down-

im scared bro

if your near a forest you cant see shit

night-vision for legacy was better than that stuff

and they last like 40m

idk what graphics your using for them to be bright

[azure wadi]

Well atm there is no nocturnal hunters and even if there was, there is no night vision so they’d be useless, dark nights with night vision, good. Dark nights without night vision, hell no

It’s not just dark, it’s completely black at times

[tidal frigate]

@barren zephyr I had the same idea for spino

[karmic plank]

Except a rex has to fight over and over again to survive, a trike can nom bushes and only fights when it's stealth fails it

Herbivores can choose to avoid combat, if they have the skills and the patience. Carnivores often cannot

[azure wadi]

Carnivores have some form of choice of what they hunt, if a rex wants to hunt a trike, the trike has no chance of not fighting, I don’t think herbis or carnis should should heal faster than the other I think heal rates should be different for every dinosaur based on health size weight and other factors, not diet

[lavish quail]

i fucking love this

there is 2 deinos a bunch of utahs a bunch of tenos and a babu carno

i just logged in btw

this is awesome

[odd sedge]

Weird flex but ok

[alpine owl]

if ur one of those stegos who just camp south killing bb deinos

no one likes you

[lavish quail]

lmao you think i get the chance?

there was like 40 utahs

also i lost my steg there

my wifi cut

then server crashed

or restarted

or whatever

[zenith bone]

The anticheat is refusing to open

[icy lion]

#🔧-evrima-troubleshooting-🔧

[zinc rivet]

@odd sedge what's got you confused

[rare fractal]

@zinc rivet I like that a lot better than just 3 different colorful hexagons

[odd sedge]

I don't understand the different colors

[icy lion]

red, blue, and yellow are each diet nutrient

the darker color signifies the bar being empty

[zinc rivet]

^

Proteins, Carbs, and Lipids specifically in the order Lunary listed

Proteins = Red
Carbs = Blue
Lipids = Yellow

[lavish quail]

i like this system

but they better do it right-

[odd sedge]

Ahhhhhh thank you

[urban flax]

Wait I just noticed that system is really similar to Man Eater's
Minus the mutagens, which can come in the future in order to get strains tho

[lavish quail]

just a friendly reminder this is a human location near south with two warehouses for cars

and a garage

[still raptor]

We know

The first human structure

with Radio tower

[lavish quail]

yeah its kinda forgot about

radio tower and the other two are cooler

this is like a random find

also basically already fixed up

just needs a gate

you already know that the bois are building our nests here

also love the giant dis coloured pillar here

[rare fractal]

@latent crow I find it pretty contradictory that the devs claim they don't want this game to be a pvp game but moreso a survival game when they give carnivores a starvation timer that constantly requires them to hunt other players.

[lavish quail]

i mean its more of a situation where you gotta interact with others to survive

makes herbis more active

and carnivores more eventful

[rare fractal]

What does that even mean? Being active and eventful are effectively synonyms in this context?

Plus as a carnivore you need to eat other players to survive, there's no getting around that

And even then, you still need to constantly be eating ai when they are added

With the current timers

[lavish quail]

not really

im growing a croc rn

haven't eaten in 25 minutes

[rare fractal]

You're growing a croc, the creatures with the longest starvation timer in game currently

[lavish quail]

i mean the only really low one is ptera

and thats reasonable

[rare fractal]

Have you tested the other 2 main carnivores since the last update?

[dreamy bison]

Isn’t it 45 mins for most creatures

[rare fractal]

Because the amount of food gained from corpses now is the primary issue, especially with utah requiring long periods of time to take down targets now due to it's bleed reliance

[lavish quail]

i mean utah can jack a body for like 20 years

[rare fractal]

What? What does that even mean?

[lavish quail]

one body serves a utah for ages

also you seem agitated

whats up

[dreamy bison]

It is pretty easy to find bodies as Utah

[rare fractal]

Not particularly, you'd need to find them as a result of sport killing since carnivores now have become pretty attached to their kills

[dreamy bison]

Sport killing is pretty much the only thing that happens

[lavish quail]

theres plenty of ai rn

and utah will probably have ai packs soon making it easier

[dreamy bison]

herbivores do it, crocs do it, carnos do it

[lavish quail]

i say probably

[rare fractal]

But there simply isn't, 1 dryo spawns near the waterfall west of shallows, 5 dryo exist in the entirety of the plains that span between center river and south east swamp, and the other ai are too widely dispersed to be of much use tracking down

And with the new consumption values, you quite literally need to consume 1.2x your own body weight to go from starving to full, that's insane

[dreamy bison]

I don’t see anything wrong with this, no more carno mega packs

[lavish quail]

try go behind dam

there is 3 or 4 back there

[rare fractal]

That's a terrible reason to approve of this change, having to consume more than you weigh to prevent starvation in a single sitting is rediculous

[lavish quail]

i mean carno mega packs are a big problem

[dreamy bison]

It is still very easy to do

[lavish quail]

and the food value isnt too bad since its easy to get food

my problem is night rn

[rare fractal]

Yeah, and it's easier to manage them by giving them competition, not simply making the amount of food a corpse gives insanely low

[dreamy bison]

If the carrying capacity does not allow for 20 carnos, then that’s a good thing. It promotes less top predators and more smaller predators

[lavish quail]

carnos are meant to be like cheetahs

[rare fractal]

Only problem is that the smaller predators were nerfed

[lavish quail]

filipe lowered their pack limit in some streams

[rare fractal]

I doubt that, considering the sheer lack of parallels outside of speed

[zinc rivet]

@strange karma that's actually pretty nice, though maybe the diet part could use a bit of tweaking, I enjoy the concept of centralizing stamina tho

[lavish quail]

i mean thats what their described as

[dreamy bison]

Once they are tweaked it will be a good carnivore balance

[lavish quail]

honestly add diets and the consuption times will be fine

good diets mean you have to eat less

and thats probably why they were lowered so much anyway

[rare fractal]

They were tweaked, that's the issue. Carnos had competition when utahs were genuinely threatening

[lavish quail]

utahs were never threatening to a carno

[dreamy bison]

I mean once they are actually tweaked not shoved into the dirt for one update

[rare fractal]

The issue is that they don't functionally parallel cheetahs

[lavish quail]

not one with any game sense anyway

[rare fractal]

They were pre fix

Absolutely

[lavish quail]

their fast they can kill smaller animals easy and their stam lowers quite fast now

they fit their role pretty well rn

just mega packing thats the problem

[dreamy bison]

Utah got good potential but is forever hindered by unintended reactions or bugs

[rare fractal]

They also knock things over like a bull as their special ability and border on two tons. They also turn like a freight train and take down targets smaller than themselves. These are not traits cheetahs have

[lavish quail]

utah is perfect rn

[rare fractal]

Mobility is their biggest issue rn

[lavish quail]

its still a dino

[rare fractal]

Meaning the cheetah comparison makes no sense

[lavish quail]

complain to the devs not me

[dreamy bison]

Utah definitely does not feel perfect to play

[rare fractal]

Do you agree with them? Does carno function like a cheetah to you?

[dreamy bison]

you get dumpsteres by pretty much anything if they have a tree nearby

[rare fractal]

If it had it's former mobility I honestly would have no criticisms

[lavish quail]

depends what server you play on tbh

[rare fractal]

Indeed, I don't want them to have a health increase, that wouldn't make any sense, but they should be able to dodge like they used to, that was their only advantage

[lavish quail]

true

[rare fractal]

No it doesn't, this is in regards to how they are designed

[lavish quail]

they're fast actions small predators

[dreamy bison]

If Utah didn’t get fully knocked off by hitting a tree, just loosing some stam, it would feel a bit better

And if it had its mobility back, perfect

[lavish quail]

they wouldnt be able to put up a fight with cerato or allo or basically any mid teir

[rare fractal]

And yet they are severely held back in their ability to avoid attacks due to inertia

[lavish quail]

its mobilty did cause a few buggy animations

[dreamy bison]

Honestly Utah will probably have it’s golden years against shant or para

[lavish quail]

lemme google what that means brb

[lavish quail]

anything large and slow

utahs can handle

[dreamy bison]

Anything that relies on running away

[lavish quail]

paras are pseudo apexes

in packs i dont see them running

[rare fractal]

Inertia is the amount of speed lost during turning. Currently utah loses about the same amount of speed as a carno does when turning

[lavish quail]

but alone yeah

[lavish quail]

its not aweful tbh

[rare fractal]

Which is..... debilitating to every mechanical advantage it's supposed to have

[dreamy bison]

It is pretty bad

[rare fractal]

You don't play utah I'm assuming

[dreamy bison]

Utah cannot run from a carno now

[rare fractal]

At least not in the past week

[dreamy bison]

Unless in a forest

[rare fractal]

It can't even outmaneuver them anymore

[lavish quail]

i have played it when it came out for like 6h

taking out stegs is easy

everything else kinda shits on you

[rare fractal]

Stegs aren't the issue, it's everything else

[dreamy bison]

Stegos are fun to fight as Utah

[rare fractal]

Yeah exactly

[lavish quail]

its awesome to slowly bleed them out

and the reward is even better

[rare fractal]

They really are, and I'm glad utah has been optimized to fight them. But utah still needs to survive outside of encounters with stegos

[dreamy bison]

It’s a good balance of using teamwork and skill

[rare fractal]

You can even do it alone if you're good enough and the stego falls for baits

[lavish quail]

it will get more optimised as time goes on

more small animals like ptera will be added

like beipi

and pachy will make life a bit easier

[dreamy bison]

Pachy will probably body Utah’s

[rare fractal]

The only thing I would really change about it is giving utah a slight increase in stamina regen while resting. Because the amount of time it can reasonably stay engaged in a fight averages at 10-15 seconds

[rare fractal]

As they should generally

[lavish quail]

depends on the players

[dreamy bison]

Yeah, unless it is solo against a few Utah’s

[lavish quail]

cocky utahs will get annihilated

smart ones will play bleed

[rare fractal]

It's your only option, so anyone with a brain would use it

[lavish quail]

tbh if you bite with utah your dumb

[dreamy bison]

yes

[rare fractal]

You need bite to maintain the bleed

[lavish quail]

it has the same bite force as ptera pre-patch

[feral solstice]

Bite should be used to make sure the bleed racks up properly

Not pounce and then pounce again

[rare fractal]

But you still need it to maintain a constant bleed

[lavish quail]

only really do it when their wallowing

[feral solstice]

It’s pounce, bite till a friend pounces again

Rinse and repeat

[dreamy bison]

Bite is kind of risky considering you get once shot by most things

Given the same risk for both, I would just pounce

[rare fractal]

Doesn't matter, if you're short of 5 utahs it's absolutely necessary to use

[dreamy bison]

Not really, unless they are playing defensive against Utah

which I never see anymore

[rare fractal]

Using your bite causes them to drain stamina as well, so it further causes bloodloss even if you don't land a hit. Baiting chases or baiting stamina draining attacks is very rewarding

[dreamy bison]

In the sense of baiting, yeah it’s worth

But going right up to them and biting does not seem very intuitive

unless they are chasing a friend?

[lavish quail]

baiting is far more useful than the bite

[rare fractal]

It still maintains the constant loss of blood, so it can be used when a pounce isn't available

Which is often considering utahs abysmal stamina

In massive packs it becomes less of an issue

[dreamy bison]

Blood doesn’t heal so fast though

You’d only ever need to bite after like 2 mins

Or if they are wallowing

[latent crow]

It wouldnt be as bad if they would give us a viable AI alternative. Even if it was just a tad tricky to survive on AI.. right now its impossible to survive on AI. I mean the occasional fight and kill is fun.. but if nobody is on the server, there is only one thing to do.. die lol.

[rare fractal]

Yeah I usually just log if I can't find someone after 30 minutes, because at that point I'm already starving anyway :p

[latent crow]

Right lol

[lavish quail]

in the very distance

I have succesfully found de building

its loaded in for some reason

[icy lion]

Please keep this channel on topic. It is not a general discussion channel.

[lavish quail]

i cant post images in general -_-

[icy lion]

This is not a general discussion channel. You're thinking of #isle-discussion.

This is general feedback discussion. It is meant to discuss posts in #general-feedback

[rare fractal]

Run Timber, the blue cat is after you

[feral solstice]

They’ve already been doing that. They’re improving performance before stress testing update 4

[strange karma]

Thanks! And yeah the diet thing is really hard to visualize and im still kinda unsatisfied with a lot of the ideas including my own when it comes to visualizing that

[solar quarry]

They said that UI will be improved with UI overhaul update

Whatever we are getting now is basically placeholder

[paper oriole]

I hope we dont get hexagons that shit looks so jank lol

[manic sun]

what? I think it´s unique but everyone has a different opinion

[solar latch]

I think the hexagons look pretty good actually

A lot sleeker than before

[paper oriole]

Something about it just feels unnatural to me

Plus with a circle they could attach a compass to stam so we dont have to sniff for that shit

[solar latch]

I mean a sleek one for humans and a more “traditional isle” one for Dinos might be cool

[paper oriole]

That would make sense humans should have a pretty different ui and probably tribals as well

[vapid monolith]

are you guys having trouble saving progress? 3 times now ive lost a full grown utah

am i doing something wrong

[manic sun]

yea it´s a bug, dont safelog

u can lose ur dino from doing so

at least my dinos always got wiped when i safelogged

[vapid monolith]

yes same with me

i tried the straight logout button from the menu and that worked once but i just got back on and im wiped

[manic sun]

@lavish quail I like ur idea with the bridge. Would be sick to see herds/packs fighting over the bridge so they dont risk to end up as fish feed lol.

Just imagine a teno kicking down a pachy from the bride which instantly gets devoured by a spino lmao

[solar latch]

I think having a fully maintenanced bridge tho is kinda meh. Maybe humans can service it to drive across but if they don’t it’s left decayed so only smaller things can cross

Like troodon or dryo, things of that size

[manic sun]

but what if they need their vehicles?

i mean a jeep is bigger than a troodon

[solar latch]

Hence the servicing the bridge lol. Fix up the bridge to cross easily but if you don’t service for a long time it decays back to nature slowly

Like, if you don’t take care of a bridge for too long it’ll fall apart in any situation

[manic sun]

I like that

[solar latch]

[manic sun]

crossing the old bridge with ur herd and suddenly it starts to crack and you fall into the depths of idk how we will call the river

The Splitter lol

but im just thinking about a hotspot at this enormous river

it shouldn´t be like right in the middle but like more north/south so whatever needs to get to the other side runs more risk of running into potential predators

also maybe the bridge should be slippery so it is a challenge to cross it? Who knows

smth. like a gigantic mammoth tree which fell into the river

or maybe like a tall dam which u can cross but if you fall down u either die from fall damage ur get eaten by the aquatics

[solar latch]

I think a bridge or dam would be cool for a crossing either way

[paper oriole]

having to cross a flimsy looking bridge with your group one by one to avoid it collapsing and its all dark and freaky like the jp3 pteranodon bridge scene

[manic sun]

ohh yea

[lavish quail]

My problem with my own idea is that mega packing would be encouraged by it

[manic sun]

i mean diets will heavily punish megapacks

so even if u find a megapack most of the pack members will be sick and easy prey

[solar latch]

how so

[manic sun]

it should just be a travel point which gets contested sometimes

[lavish quail]

Well if you go to cross the bridge cause it’s safe

Then others will too

Meaning large herbi meetings

[solar latch]

I like herbi herds being a thing

more realistic honestly

for some herbis at least

[lavish quail]

But mega herds -_-

That just the main bad thing

The game wants to discourage it

It would also cause carnivores to camp

And wait for their prefered prey

[manic sun]

that´s what this river is for if u and ur megaherd wanna cross that river u run risk of losing half of ur herd

[manic sun]

I mean that´s what they do irl

it would just add a big colorful ecosystem into the game

[lavish quail]

Tbh I’m hating on my own idea too much

[manic sun]

it´s not that much of a bad idea tho

[solar latch]

I think we can all agree tho that mist/fog is good idea tho

spoooky

[manic sun]

yeeeeeeeeeee

[solar latch]

https://tenor.com/view/foggy-fog-nature-trees-gif-12499540

[lavish quail]

Mist is a must

[solar latch]

y e s

[fallen path]

I really dont understand why people don't like my suggestion

[pulsar lake]

Reptile lip movement looks stupid

As developed as mammals

[fallen path]

It really doesn't look stupid

It would be an huge improvement

[karmic plank]

A number of people don't want to see TI just being an unlicensed JP game, so most suggestions around "Make it like JP" will usually sink

[fallen path]

Bro

I didn't say make it like jp

It was just an example

I couldn't find any other videos

And one more thing

The utahs model is literally jp's velociraptors model

It should have feathers but it doesnt

It should have feathers at default and not as an option.

[paper oriole]

Reptiles moving their lips with snarls and other expressions feels too anthropomorphized/mammalian

There are very few reptiles with flexible lips

[fallen path]

Like Utahraptor

And velociraptor

[paper oriole]

It gives it the “rawr xd” flare thet utah already gets shit on for

So why make it worse

[fallen path]

But why should a fucking dinosaur hiss???

[paper oriole]

Reptiles hiss

Birds hiss too

Some of them

[fallen path]

Atleast make it threatening

[karmic plank]

^

[paper oriole]

Utah doesnt even look threatening, the hiss isnt an issue

[fallen path]

Well if reptiles hiss and you want the game to be historically correct then the devs should change the entire model of the utahraptor and give it feather as default and not as an option

[paper oriole]

A snarl would just make me think of some wolfquest rper

[karmic plank]

Yah, hence the knee jerk reaction to any suggestion which involves JP

[fallen path]

And the calls shouldn't be from jp

[karmic plank]

Not arguing, just answering your question

[fallen path]

A snarl would make it look more threatening

Instead of a cat hiss

[paper oriole]

It would make it pretty cringe imo hut i guess its all up to opinion

Makes it look cartoonish

Even more than currently

[karmic plank]

Part of the issue is even though Utah is bigger than many big cats, it's on the small side roster wise, so they want to make it sound comparatively small

[paper oriole]

Reptiles dont wiggle their lips around like mammals

[karmic plank]

Like Hypsi is the size of a medium dog but sounds like a budgie

[karmic plank]

This too

[paper oriole]

They could give it something else like just have its mouth agape to make some other noise than the hiss

Or snap its jaws even, just no weird mammal lip muscles

[karmic plank]

I think some could do it, but it would feel more natural for a small herbivore

Something that wouldn't be so combat focused with heavy scales

[paper oriole]

If we have any herbis or omnis with meaty faces it wouldnt be too stupid because they use it to manipulate plant stems/branches but in general it isnt really needed

Like a snarling herbi would look dumb lol

[karmic plank]

Snarling yes, but lots of herbivores have expressive aggression

[paper oriole]

Yeah horse lips were kinda where my mind went too

Those things go all over the place

[karmic plank]

Rhinos are pretty mobile too, but rhinos don't do the whole teeth baring thing

[paper oriole]

Not sure we even have non carnivorous dinos with such meatable faces though except maybe the sauropods

[karmic plank]

Meaty instead of beaky?

[paper oriole]

Yeah meaty like

God imagine

Maybe the sauropods would have lips for pulling on those juicy leaves but expressions i dont think are really necessary

[karmic plank]

That's a little cursed

[paper oriole]

Lmao

[karmic plank]

New emote when

[paper oriole]

Smoochy kissy anky

[hoary dawn]

what the fuck

[valid pilot]

He does not exist p.

[karmic plank]

Come and give your aunty Anky a kiss

[swift dew]

@jade schooner ideally a map designer knows how to make things look good and full without blowing up your pc, Jace does this stuff, I doubt it will be bad

[karmic plank]

I'm fully expecting the new map to solve many of the issues we are currently experiencing. Plugins are being used to procedurally generate terrain at the moment, while we believe the new terrain is hand-crafted

The reason why things kinda glitch spawn in when you fly around instead of just LODing is because if the generation

UE4 is very good at optimising large quantities of static assets, just not when they are being procedurally generated

I'm mainly hoping that there is some real focus on fixing the layout and balance issues with the current map, not just making it prettier

[swift dew]

hopefully

[strange karma]

I do understand the choice with unreal though they have very good graphics generation which is nice for dino game

[swift dew]

could you imagine when ue5 comes out

[manic flint]

I desperately want to play kentro
sucho too...

[rare fractal]

God, imagine a statistically generalist carnivore xD

[manic flint]

Wdym a statistically generalist carnivore?

[rare fractal]

Cuz right now we have the glass cannon, speed demon, slow tank, and paper machete pigeon

[manic flint]

And a camper

[rare fractal]

A carnivore with decent damage, decent speed, decent damage, decent health

[rare fractal]

Aka slow tank

[manic flint]

Sucho doesn't exactly have decent speed

[rare fractal]

It's slow by comparison to the faster carnivores, but it isn't incredibly slow and it's combat competence makes up for it

[manic flint]

Fair
Hopefully now
Cause you can eat bodies in rivers
Sucho is actually allowed to swim away from danger in servers

Cerato is more generalist right?

[rare fractal]

Yeah that would be fantastic. Yeah cera is more generalist

[manic flint]

Excited for that

Really
All spinosaurids
Smallish herbis
And smallish carnis
Are my cup of tea

[rare fractal]

Yeah same, herra, austro, minmi, spino, and cera are my most anticipated dinos

Although Cera takes my top spot

[manic flint]

Very excited for u 4.5

All the dinos that were not very good in legacy are the ones I wanted to play

:(

[karmic plank]

Cerato will be my jam I think

[lavish lake]

Fog

[rare fractal]

Same xD Cera, pachy, para, sucho (kinda, sucho is good on servers with water protection but otherwise it's a sitting duck)

[rare fractal]

Yeah I'll be a cera main till the day I die

[sacred moat]

im still not sure the full reasoning for adding sucho, when bary, spino, deino are already a thing

[sacred moat]

hopefully they make it viable so it isnt carebear simulator

[karmic plank]

I used to love Utah but the new dumbed down one I struggle to enjoy

[sacred moat]

i think the way theyre going with utah is very good

[karmic plank]

Not saying it isn't a good idea

Just not my thing

Too much of a one-trick pony

[sacred moat]

i mean

utah is a team effort dino

so i guess I can see why people might not want to play it

[karmic plank]

I dig teamwork but most randoms utahs are smoothbrains

[sacred moat]

solo utah is pretty bad imo

[rare fractal]

I would agree if it didn't have inertia, because it just isn't capable of outmaneuvering

[sacred moat]

well theyre fixing that, right?

[rare fractal]

Plus the likelyhood of you finding other utahs rn is low because of how low their survivability rate is

[rare fractal]

I sure hope so

The green people say so

[karmic plank]

In theory with good numbers and teamwork carnos shouldn't be given the chance to chase Utah normally

[rare fractal]

"In Theory"

[karmic plank]

But yeah gl finding enough people with the brains to work together that well

I've had a lot of fun solo Utah vs a scratched up teno at shallows

[rare fractal]

It hasn't happened to me in the last week and a half so far, I've brought down stegos before with other utahs but it took the deaths of 4 out of the six. Granted the utahs I was with were pretty bad (but most are because it's a very difficult dino to play)

[rare fractal]

Yeah solo utah vs stego is also pretty fun

[sacred moat]

i feel like it would be pretty nice if they add a voicechat for your group chat. being able to communicate via speech vs having to type out everything youre doing/want to do can hinder teamwork a lot

[rare fractal]

yeah that's why I've been such a big fan of private servers lately, but even still it just turns into a confusing mess

[karmic plank]

I mean the official discord is right there, and voice chat often comes with uh

Issues

[rare fractal]

Yeah that's my point

[karmic plank]

But yeah hard to coordinate without VC

[rare fractal]

I can play utah with 3 good friends, that's it

[sacred moat]

not everyone has discord, and theyre adding voice chat for humans already

[rare fractal]

More than that is too much noise and if they aren't friends that understand the mechanics and strategy for utah specifically

[rare fractal]

Everyone should tho, everyone should get discord there's no reason not to have it. But voice chat for dinos sounds... odd

[karmic plank]

So part of being a good team player -utah or otherwise - is comms discipline

I used to play CoD4 at cash prize tournament level, and comms discipline was a HUGE deal

[sacred moat]

having vc ingame has a lot more privacy than giving out your personal discord to random people

[rare fractal]

You don't have to do that

[sacred moat]

as far as im concerned, that is how you form groupchats, via adding people

[karmic plank]

As soon as you join a public server you have signed away that privacy @sacred moat

[rare fractal]

You can set your friend request status, you can join a public vc for that dino depending on the server, and you don't need to disclose any personal info with your DC

You can even have alt accounts for extra privacy

[karmic plank]

Personally, I don't want VC for dinos

[rare fractal]

same

[karmic plank]

I want emote and command wheels ala Sea of Thieves

Or Portal 2

Or Rocket League

[sacred moat]

even so, lets say us three hop in a vc and play utah. we're still commincating via voicechat. So why not just add it ingame

[rare fractal]

yeah same

[karmic plank]

RL used to be VC focused but they removed that in favour of quick chat commanda

And it was a good change

[rare fractal]

Because facilitating that is a lot more fluid through discord

[karmic plank]

I don't want to be in a VC with someone with an open mic and kids screaming in the background, or a kid who just talks NON STOP

[sacred moat]

im not sure about that, 2 calling and having the option right there to speak

[rare fractal]

Yeah and you can't really do anything about it cuz they are in your group

[rare fractal]

Sounds much easier to have a DC vc

[sacred moat]

with any vc you should be able to mute certain members of your own choice

[karmic plank]

And as soon as it's in game there will be an expectation to use it and people won't type

I've seen it on other games. It's better with quick chat commands

[rare fractal]

Yeah forgot to mention that, prolly the biggest reason. You can even see it in game, when someone types "hi" in the chat you immediately become shadier if you don't respond

But with an in game vc that problem would be so much worse

[karmic plank]

Typing is more about revealing your name, but yeah

[rare fractal]

true

[karmic plank]

I nearly killed a stego as a stego cos they wouldn't type

And was hanging with a Utah pack and acting weird

But they were just noob

[rare fractal]

Yeah that's the part I don't like about chats, if you don't respond you become a potential threat because of how much of a convention it's become

[karmic plank]

VC also brings a lot of toxicity, because it isn't auditable like text chat

[sacred moat]

which brings me back to the point of being able to mute people, or a group decision to do a vote kick

[karmic plank]

Like I said, played plenty of games which have done exactly that

Its better with text and quick chat commands, and it's why most newer games have moved in that direction

Apart from console games for obvious reasons

[rare fractal]

Granted consoles are just a more handicapped platform

[sacred moat]

Quick chat commands is limiting your speech still. Ntm if you stop to trigger said command, youre giving the opposite party time to bonk you in the head and kill you

[karmic plank]

Rocket League is the gold standard for fast paced high teamwork games with random people

Atm

And it moved away from VC

[jade schooner]

Thanks, bro

[karmic plank]

SoT is another good example, and while it has VC its public not team only, and is not used unless absolutely required

[rare fractal]

Yeah, that's why you can just join a discord vc

[sacred moat]

free speech > Quick commands. Vcs have been in gaming since the beginning and are still very popular

[rare fractal]

If you really want it then you can go the extra effort

[karmic plank]

Battlefield doesn't have VC

Apex doesn't either

[sacred moat]

you shouldnt have to open a whole different appilcation to do the same action in game

[karmic plank]

VC is not that common these days for good reason

[rare fractal]

Oh really why not?

Especially since you can communicate in game, and in a more optimized way aswell

[karmic plank]

Valorant might? Can't recall.

The industry is phasing out VC for a reason

[sacred moat]

If we're going to Vc on discord to have a casual conversation, why not have a similiar feature in game for convenient purposes

[karmic plank]

I don't want to be in a VC with random people, and I don't want to be expected to be either

Which IG VC would absolutely cause

[rare fractal]

Because then it becomes an expectation generally for communication in game

[rare fractal]

Yeah that's my point

It's the same with chat currently but at least you don't need to actually talk

[karmic plank]

Like I said. Look at the current list of big name online competitive games and look at which ones support VC

[sacred moat]

so you prefer the current way of communication?

[karmic plank]

And ask yourself why that might be

[karmic plank]

I prefer exactly what RL has

[sacred moat]

RL?

[karmic plank]

Rocket League

It is basically perfect

[rare fractal]

As a baseline form of communication, absolutely. If I want to get in a vc that is an option due to discord

[karmic plank]

Except maybe modifiers for the quickchat to open more options

[rare fractal]

And I'm perfectly fine with that, especially with game overlays

[karmic plank]

I've been playing games for a while, I saw the VC craze come and go

[rare fractal]

The Xbox Live Chat intensifies

[karmic plank]

Yup

[rare fractal]

That was... a time

[sacred moat]

im not familiar with RL communication, but from what I just googled it has the option of voice chat

[karmic plank]

It is not enabled by default and is rarely used. It used to be, but not any more

[rare fractal]

The playerbase has moved away from it because of efficiency, especially with RL requiring quite a bit of focus

[sacred moat]

what other way of communication does RL have then? minus Voice chat

[karmic plank]

In case you doubt me

[rare fractal]

damn

👏

[karmic plank]

Don't get me wrong @sacred moat , I love VC and am usually in a discord channel whenever I'm on, but I hate being forced into one IG

[rare fractal]

^

If you've ever felt the pressure to interact with the chat before in this game, then imagine that feeling but so much worse

Because then you're expected to speak and have full convos whether you want to be or not

And this is coming from a guy who plays this game 70% of the time in a vc

[karmic plank]

Plus, you may not have considered that TI is actually pretty well represented for lady gamers, and they often have uh... Pretty negative experiences on random VCs

[rare fractal]

Yeah that could be taken into consideration

[karmic plank]

Quick chat commands. 16 commands accessed via 1 2 3 4 (first press accesses submenu, second press issues chat command) which are chosen by the player from 30 or 40 options (e.g. Take the shot! Faking left! Defending! Need boost!), and are presented to players in their own language

(or the d pad for controllers)

SoT/Portal 2/etc use command wheels, where you press a button and then move your mouse or stick in a direction to choose the command

SoT has 2 level menus like RL, but has like 8 or 9 per level, so it all gets a bit tricky to keep track of. Once you get the hang of it you can communicate pretty efficiently though

[limber hull]

Personally I think the only character that should be forced into VC is humans

If you don't want to VC, don't play humans

[karmic plank]

I wonder whether human VC will be audible (and understandable) by dinos

Like it should be audible, but then using discord instead would be too much if an advantage

[limber hull]

Audible, yes

Understandable, no

[paper oriole]

I think it would be hilarious for sandbox servers to have global text and a local voice chat that can be enabled. Local voice chats in death matches are a great source of amusement

[karmic plank]

I desperately want global for sandbox. So much easier to manage grow requests and all that

[paper oriole]

Yeah and servers can go sandbox for events then

I dont wanna juggle different global mods to play on multiple servers

[rare fractal]

Nope, it will sound like radio static

[karmic plank]

Fair, still a big advantage to be in discord instead

[rare fractal]

Ikr!

Discord is just better :/

[limber hull]

Well, discord users can have their discord

I'll be using in-game VC with my friends

[karmic plank]

Hunt Showdown is kinda the same. There is ingame chat and VC but you'd be mad to use it. It's a huge stealth disadvantage

[limber hull]

I really hope humans don't get text chat tbh. Their vocalisations are literally them speaking

[karmic plank]

hahaha just imaging the F call for a human

Bork

[rare fractal]

Just "HA HaaaaaA"

Like they better have a laugh

[karmic plank]

lah-mayo

[rare fractal]

Their 1 call better just be a Micheal Jackson Heee Heeeee

[karmic plank]

Hahahaha

[rare fractal]

I will uninstall if these demands aren't met

[karmic plank]

Regionalised 3 call "Hey I'm walking here!" "Ya whanna go mate?!"

[rare fractal]

Bruh xD 4 call will be "Oh hell nah" "The fuck is that!"

Or if you want to get really specific "Hey remember that joke I told ya"

[karmic plank]

Hah, love it

[limber hull]

personally, I think if people don't want to use voice chat and prefer text chat, they should not play humans

[karmic plank]

Stoopid humies

[remote thunder]

@strange karma I made that suggestion yesterday, and it got quite a positive response lol:

[karmic plank]

Fog will be awesome, and especially in UE5 is pretty light on resources

[still raptor]

Column* Its where a Stalactite and a Stalagmite form together

[remote thunder]

Yeah, I can't imagine that I'd be that hard to do at all. And the sound echoes would be easy too.

Ugh... I want this to be in the weather update.

[vale pawn]

i want fog to be some cinematic beautiful sight from a distance but when you go in it the anxiety kicks in

[karmic plank]

Yeah super easy, just need to turn it on and link to the events. Sounds might be a fair bit harder depending on the sound provider

I'd like it if sounds carried further at night regardless

[remote thunder]

Exactly. My blood would be red hot while trying to fight in the fog... ❤️‍🔥

[paper oriole]

Cannibalism wont do shit to deinosuchus will it

If you get rewarded with a cool ass nesting skin youll just encourage it

A punishment for grouping related activities would be better, since career cannibals deserve to be alone anyway

[remote thunder]

Career cannibals should be punished by more than just infertility. They should have stat punishments too.

[paper oriole]

Depends on the species

It should extend beyond fertility for some, other grouping related punishments and also general diets punishments since career cannibals of most species would be going against their diets obvs

[fallen path]

Yeah you're right, I'll delete the suggestion

[paper oriole]

Leucism, piebald and melanism mutations could be a rare occurrence in nesting with poor genes though probably without much issue. If people want to risk taking parents with poor genes for themselves for the chance of some rare skin that makes it hard for them to survive then so be it

But we should be able to see if parents have bad genes in the nesting menu

[meager tiger]

I think we need hollow logs or some way to lose hunters. Currently hiding in this game is much harder than legacy. You cannot mind game or blend in anymore due to the new footprint mechanic. I get that the hunter is suppose to track but I just feel that fighting is much more important than trying to hide. I do not like that mud is the only option. Maybe we can get hollows logs, burrows, terrain/elvation differences certain species are better at climbing or running down a hill?

[paper oriole]

Theres like one or two hollow logs on the whole ass map rn isnt there

Would be cool to see more, as well as small animal biomes like slot canyons

[meager tiger]

ditches

good idea

cracks

maybe small caves

openings

[paper oriole]

Slot canyons and the cave systems within would be so hot for velo

[meager tiger]

i want more escape opptutnies to use to my advtange not just mud or im screwed. Usally animals prefer running

[paper oriole]

So nice for smalls

[strange karma]

Ooooh echos sound like an awesome addition to fog yes

[remote thunder]

Has carnivore/carnivore and carnivore/herbivore mix-packing stat punishments been suggested before? I legit hate it when anything other than herbivore mixpacking happens in game and it breaks all immersion for me. It's legit the AIDS of the Isle, IMO.

I think there should be an active punishment to discourage that type of in game behavior, like what BoB has.

[paper oriole]

Theres been quite a few mixpack debuff suggestions, they tend to be abuseable

[remote thunder]

Yep, ultra spooky! 👻

[paper oriole]

Mix packs are cancer but hopefully diets will make it harder and admins will keep a check on the determined groups

In BoB you can literally kill somevody by following them which is hilarious but its exploitable af and we dont need that in the isle

[remote thunder]

I don't think Diets alone will solve mix-packing. I think an active debuff will be the only thing to discourage it. Even then, some asshats will choose to troll.

[paper oriole]

People would definitely abuse the debuffs

I can already think of hunting strategies to exploit it

[strange karma]

There should be a "stress" meter when in very close proximity to your natural predators (but not all carnivores) and the debuffs wont kill you just cause random movements/calls/muscle spams which can be annoying and hinder mixpacking

Or something like that

Something that would bug the shit out of the player but not punish it or used to be exploitive

And by meter i mean if ur just sitting next to a carni for like 10 minutes then the debuff kicks in

But the effects arent immediate

[paper oriole]

Faster dinos can shadow slow stronger ones to apply a debuff and then their pack swoops in and takes advantage. Involuntary movements can fuck you over in a fight

If you are a slow dino and a faster one just shadows you and you get punished for it, it is very abusable

[strange karma]

Shouldve clarrified sit, maybe if youre constantly moving it doesnt apply

[remote thunder]

A debuff that can kill you sounds whack. What I'm imagining is a debuff that takes a certain % of your overall stam/HP/dmg or whatever, only when you're continuously mix-packing for an extended period.

[paper oriole]

I did it to apexes as carno a lot in legacy, i drew attention to them and got then killed to be a dick

[paper oriole]

Mix packers could probably just keep somewhat of a distance and come together for fights, it would mostly be exploited by fast dinos debuffing slow ones so their pack can kill them easier

Utahbros follow some acro around until he is all fucked up on stam and stuff and then jump his ass, or an allo doing it with a camara or something

[strange karma]

Tbh the lack of global/interspecies chat helps with mixpacking a lot already

Its hard to befriend someone you can't communicate with

[paper oriole]

It helps against spontanious mix pack popups but not people who regularly do it or have servers for it

Which is something at least

[strange karma]

Well i usually avoid rules and mixpacking servers cause the no rules ones give a huge sense of distrust with other dinos other than your own

[paper oriole]

Most rules servers are pretty awful lol

[strange karma]

Hell even when i play herbi i sometimes distrust other herbis, ESPECIALLY stegos

They keep tail smacking me...

[paper oriole]

Ive seen herbis kill each other for a bush even without diets, i just keep my distance too. For a large part its how it should be but sometimes it gets a little crazy, a lot of the mix packs ar people in servers and VCs though

[strange karma]

Again, started avoiding those too lol

[paper oriole]

Mix packs are one of the big reasons i just stick to small fast guys, i can run away better and i dont lose much if i die

[strange karma]

Legacy ones are fine especially with so many dinos and usually servers dont allow mixpacking or limit it, but there arent many good evrima servers/vcs

Same i main ptera and dryo

Dryo was my legacy main and man, evrima dryo is boring as hell. Love the dodge though but ive never used it so i have no idea if its actually useful

[paper oriole]

The dodge is bad, hopefully it will be fixed

[strange karma]

Oof lol

Yeah its not something you can just "git gud" at cause if you mess it up 1 time you gotta start aaallll over again

[limber hull]

Evrima dryo is nothing like legacy dryo. More comparable to legacy galli

[paper oriole]

Not now really, since it got speed reduction

[strange karma]

Eh, it's its own thing

Still speedy and small though

[paper oriole]

Legacy galli was a speed machine with high stam and on the offensive

[strange karma]

Yeah dryo is not that

[karmic plank]

Some intelligence would prevent the debuffs from being abusable imo

e.g. preventing sitting down giving bonuses (or reduce them) would be enough

You aren't going to be doing that with a predator right there anyway

You are never ever going to be able to stop mixpacking. Hell, people are doing stuff like fleeing into rivers with friendly deino, or getting teno to just kill something then leave the body for scavenger friends

But at least reducing the efficacy of the roaming mixpack killsquads would go a long way

[limber hull]

That'd be nice

I'd like for the utah/carno deathsquads to stop existing or at least, be so weak that I can kill 'em in return

[zinc rivet]

@barren zephyr I might be late, but they are aware of the major drop in performance this recent patch. It is not due to lack of care with optimization, it is a bug that they just could not properly fix without releasing Update 4. The performance bug is caused by unfinished textures that were intended for Update 4 being within the build of the balance changes, and it would have been too much effort to revert them.

Just wait until Update 4, the performance should be fine then since the textures will be finished and within the build they are intended for

[karmic plank]

Plus you have a threat table for the debuffs. 1 stego and 2 Utah? Not a threat and no effect. 2 teno and 4 carno? Debuff. @paper oriole for feedback

[karmic plank]

Are you sure it's unfinished textures? They should be being culled and cooked out if so

[zinc rivet]

I'm just saying what Filipe himself said

He responded directly to people asking about the framerate issues

[karmic plank]

Fair. I don't know what plugin they are using for procedurally generating the forest stuff, so it may well be an issue.

[zinc rivet]

and he said there were textures intended for Update 4 within the Balance Patch build, and they felt it would have been too much effort to revert them only to be re-adding them for Update 4

so since the update is pretty much U4 Preparation, might as well keep what's intended for U4 in 🤷‍♀️

[karmic plank]

Either way, with the mass amounts of hand crafted landscapes and less reliance on procedurally generated stuff we should see a significant performance boost over U3 in U4

Plus better server performance and higher player caps

[zinc rivet]

i hope so

[karmic plank]

At the moment streaming the proc gen landscape assets is the biggest killer of server performance, in my testing anyway

[odd sedge]

Still not sure how I should feel about Microraptor

[paper oriole]

Microraptor is too small

Changyuraptor or balaur as arboreals would be better

Plus balaur is an omnivore

[odd sedge]

Micro is 🤏

[paper oriole]

Chad changyu vs virgin micro

[odd sedge]

Micro would be a snack for baby herras at most so I'm unsure but the rest sounds dope

[paper oriole]

Also aquilops may be too small as well

Hes like a compy size right

Lmao

[odd sedge]

Yeah that's even smaller than Compy

[paper oriole]

Hypsi could just be a start for now

[odd sedge]

Herra better be a cannibal if those are the other options

[paper oriole]

Herrera will pounce on dinos who have diets in the forest

So he may not need to be

[odd sedge]

Herra will attack anything that crosses the forest I bet.
If it fails, it's safe in the trees

[paper oriole]

Idk what herbis could be arboreal aside from hypsi.
Changyu carni
Balaur omni
Herbi…

[odd sedge]

They'll probably be pretty aggressive because they have the opportunity to get out of reach fast

[paper oriole]

Idk tupan but hes a ptero

Herrera will also probably be good at stealing eggs considering he can just climb away with them

[odd sedge]

Although they should drop out of the trees once they let them go

[paper oriole]

Imagine a herrera steals your eggs and then just throws them from a tree and breaks them in front of you lmao

[odd sedge]

It drops it onto your head

[paper oriole]

We do a little trolling

[odd sedge]

And you just watch it shatter

[paper oriole]

You helplessly watch as your egg falls from the tree before splatting on your face

I hope galli can pick eggs up with its arms and just drop them off a cliff too

[odd sedge]

Meanwhile your Nest gets raided by ovis

I hope ovi can sniff out nests and carry two eggs at the same time. It's supposed to be The eggthief After all

[paper oriole]

Lmao permanently just deterred from nesting ever again after that is your first nesting experience

Ovi should be able to smell nests from normal food distance while other dinos just get what we had in legacy where the eggs glow faintly

And also be able to sniff out and dig up buried nests if those are a thing

Other dinos wouldnt be able to smell buried nests maybe

[odd sedge]

Speaking of Ovi, I am personally a big fan of making Ovi stupid fast and agile but have no stam at all, Thus forcing it to stay stealthy until the time is right to bolt and disappear

Legacy Austro

[paper oriole]

I kinda thought maybe jt could have a unique ability where it could sprint while crouched at maybe 2/3 its sprint speed for a large stam cost in order to leave very few tracks, its normal stam would be average

Sort of a getaway ability

[odd sedge]

I also thought about that it could use its tailfeathers to swish away its tracks entirely when Z walking. It only needs a not too slow Z walk

[zealous violet]

@lone kite If you press spacebar while jumping as a dryo, you can double jump so you'll go faster and farther than a regular jump. So that eliminates the dryo's current dead stop as it lands the dodge.

[paper oriole]

lol i think i mentioned that a while back too half jokingly but unironically it would be cool

[odd sedge]

Also, Secretary bird kick along side a peck please

I would absolutely adore such a playstyle.
A constant stealth mission when stealing eggs, you wait until the perfect moment, run in, grab two eggs and bolt. And before the parents have caught you, you swished away your tracks and are gone in the foliage of the forest with a nice meal

I am also considering how useful it would be to make Ovi (And Hypsi) immune to tail damage and instead, their feathers just get ripped out. They will both probably not tank that much, losing some feathers to a bite seems like a neat way to allow them an escape way

[zealous violet]

^^^ Ohhh yes!

[paper oriole]

Most path of titan quests just seem like a lazy version of diets

Kill this dino
Find some nuts
Find some mushrooms

I dont want pth of titans skin unlock system where you have to separately unlock each colour tab on each layer after buying the skin with your mushroom money either

Oh they deleted the suggestion rip

[zealous violet]

Agreed so much!

[limber hull]

I'm not a fan of PoT personally. It somehow manages to have more content yet is less engaging than the Isle, even with a significantly larger roster

[odd sedge]

Since Utah is not tanky at all, I'm afraid Ovi won't be either. Egg stealing is literally in its name, it would be a shame if it was always going to lead to certain death. Ovi ain't surviving a Maia or a Para so maybe at least make it not take any damage when hit by the tail

[paper oriole]

I remember i was dehydrating during one of those dumb collect nuts and mushrooms quests, i stopped at a lake. The water was undrinkable for some fucking reason and i died lmao

[limber hull]

Ovi is far more lightweight than utah as I've heard too, it will likely be quite easy to kill if caught

[zealous violet]

I still think there should be physical perks such as speed, damage, bite force, bleed resistance, and whatnot.
like for instance, you could choose to either 'become a hypo' in the end instead of dying or choose to have physical perks instead (I say this because people are, for some reason really apposed to this idea of having more gameplay diversity)
But anyways, say you choose physical perk and so you grow your dino and you dont get to pick which perk you get it just randomly shows up out of an option of X amount once you reach sub adult or adult.
So say for the speed perk, your dino just so happened to be running a lot of the time and so you have a very slight speed boost as an adult.
Or perhaps you got into a lot of fights and survived, well now youve got a slight bleed resistant perk.
I dunno, its still a work in progress idea but ive not worked on it for a while since there are always such negative replies anytime ive ever brought it up.
I just think it would add something more to the gameplay and how each individual player plays.
Thats why I havnt suggested it officially yet

[limber hull]

Physical perks sound... Eh. I personally would prefer perks that modify your niche or playstyle, like an aquatic getting perks that support coastal life. Customising your dino for new niches adds far more replayability than just "DPS build"

[zealous violet]

Can you elaborate?

Because that might actually fit within what im stumbling to say.

Also, we have dietary perks already, so why not continue the trend of adding more perks overall?
We could have diet, physical, environmental- any really as long as we could categorize them and ensure that none are too OP overall.

[limber hull]

Say I wanted to become more of a scavenger ptera and less of a fisher ptera. I would choose the perks that actively made it that my ptera was better off scavenging for meat, it can resist more sickness caused by older meat or needs less water as it can spend more time around the inland to become a vulture for what meats it can manage to come across. One example of many of course, but adaptation to a specific playstyle.

Where a fisher might glide better as it skims across the water, my scavanger ptera has more aerial speed and agility (with the cost of more stamina)

Perks being stat ups and not created around what behaviours or niches that specific dino can display just seems lame to me

[zealous violet]

I did originally start out saying you could choose your perks but people jumped all over me about that saying it was too OP or that it was like meta gaming. XP

But I do like how your thinking and I think it does absolutely align with the perks i'm talking about.

[limber hull]

And I'm talking REALISTIC perks, nothing like BoBs aquarex or whatever the fuck that is

Shit that actually fits the dino and how it could behave

[zealous violet]

of course! We want them to be realistic, reasonable, and nothing that could be perceived as 'meta gaming' or might tip the scales in favor of 1 over powered player against an entire server. haha

[limber hull]

Like I could set up my deino to be better at catching and killing other aquatics, at the cost of land presence, or make him far better at ambushing and killing the poor fools drinking from his waters, but aquatics have an advantage over him

Stuff like that

[zealous violet]

Exactly! 😄 Stuff just like that! It would create a more diverse playing world, give people more to do than just PvP, it would give more to the actual point of the game which is to survive.
Imagine losing your dino youve been carefully working on to have all these perks? Youd fight a lot harder to keep them alive. Which is what the devs want: people to survive in the game.
Imagine being a ptera with slightly better stam and the ability to glide for longer because of it?
I would suggest actual physical changes to the models as well but that is so much work I dont dare put it within the suggestion.

[limber hull]

yea, no physical changes

Also I'd only give perks at adulthood tbh

Means that you develop even further once adult

[zealous violet]

Right, the perks wouldnt show up until your an adult. Like you open the character screen and just see some text that says like "Bleed resistance perk" And nothing more.

ohh wait, I see. So your saying you'd rather work on the perk after adulthood?
I'm saying the perk doesnt show up until adulthood since a lot of people log, stop playing or change characters after adulthood, and it only shows up after youve reached this goal since you spend the longest time actually growing your dino to adulthood.
That way you can enjoy all your hard work with your brand new perk as an adult.

[limber hull]

My thing is I'd also like perks as an additional development bonus

[zealous violet]

Fair. Theres gotta be a way to be able to do both or have them work out together.
Anywho, im off to bed. if theres anything more on the topic, feel free to @ me and I'll come back to em later.
Have a good one!

[summer forge]

To add on my feedback, I know that tenos are supposed to be fast but I'm sure that it's something that can be achieved without the animation looking like the juvie teno has no weight!

In my memory adult tenonto had a similar feeling to it when running but I wasn't sure anymore so that's why I didn't say anything about it

[fallen path]

Ey what do yall think of this idea? So when gore gets released you will be able to take a bone with you and chew on it to take care of your teeth and make sure you don't get bad teeth and that you stay healthy.

[lapis tree]

That would be to complicated for new players especially with other mechanics in the game like diets and fractures

[wanton hull]

It’s another one of those things where u have to ask yourself. What purpose will this serve, how does this help with improving the gameplay experience and how could this effect your playstyle (positive/negative)

To me I don’t see the point. We know that certain animals will be able to break bones and eat them but chewing itself is rather pointless

[fallen path]

The point is that you will have to maintain your teeth like that and if you don't they will go bad, just like diets. You eat what's best for you to stay strong and healthy, just like taking care of your teeth to make sure they stay healthy and you will be able to hunt and kill effectively.

[fallen path]

@wanton hull

[full canopy]

I just respawned as my corpse

cool

Cant move or nothing. I'm just a dead body

[wanton hull]

Epic corpse simulator

[barren zephyr]

Happened one time to me just force close the game or restart the PC.

[weak fern]

Ok my post got deleted so i re write it, HOW can we set up monitors or game settings to see at night.
Got stompped by a Stego while resting, couldn't even see him coming.

Thx

[weak dune]

Night vision isn't in yet. We basically just have to suffer with dark nights

[weak fern]

i know there is no night vision

but i can't distinguish my tail from mouth at night

[weak dune]

As far as I know, there isn't an official setting for brighter nights

Though someone feel free to tell me I'm wrong if I am

[weak fern]

Considering there is nothing official, i know where to look now, thx 🙂

[lavish quail]

lower graphics till there is basically nothing

[lavish quail]

anyone got any ideas for an ability for magy?

[keen bear]

The offic servers are offline ?

[dreamy bison]

They occasionally crash

[solar quarry]

Go into fetal position and die

Magy is going to be new meme useless dinosaur

Honestly they should just add it as AI

[hoary dawn]

having it as ai doesn't fix the problem

they should make it actually good

[solar quarry]

Theres nothing to work on. It's a dwarf sauropod. Only thing sauropods have going for them is the size. It like trying to make carnivore that has no teeth or claws good.

[feral solstice]

Eh you can make magy useful

Doesn’t need to be scrapped

[hoary dawn]

you can make magy good

[still raptor]

You'll have to make it overtuned though

[hoary dawn]

upsize it, give it cc attacks and good stam

[still raptor]

Magy should be running at 35 kmph tops with its quad run

Bipedal?

Eh

40 kmph is pushing it

[solar quarry]

It's a smaller tenno with no tools for defense

[still raptor]

Judging that they want Magy to be faster than Allo

[hoary dawn]

i doubt it will be

[still raptor]

Like how Dryo is a smaller Stego? Your comparison is invalid.

[solar quarry]

Dryo has speed and agility. Wdym?

[hoary dawn]

magy can be like a more cc oriented tenonto

[still raptor]

Magy has a completely different anatomy than Tenonto. You cannot compare

The only thing you possibly could compare

is CC

[solar quarry]

What kind of cc would it have? It's small

[hoary dawn]

the shoulder check it has in the concept

[still raptor]

^

It has osteoderms that somewhat help it

Speed is fucked bipedal or quad

The only thing it has

[hoary dawn]

if something within a certain size range comes up beside it it could shove them over

[still raptor]

Is the environment

[hoary dawn]

magy isn't bipedal

[still raptor]

The environment is one of Magy's defenses.

[still raptor]

I understand that. I'm saying hypothetically if they made one of its abilities to run Bipedal.

[solar quarry]

Magy is sauropod shafted by evolution, I don't think it has a place in this game. Without making it completely unrealistic

[still raptor]

Or run Bipedal in general

[still raptor]

It doesn't.

It's the definition of a bad animal

Like

[hoary dawn]

it doesn't have a place in the game, but since its coming anyway why not make it good

[still raptor]

Unless they drastically changed the model to where it had spikes and a whip like tail (like most titanosaurs did)

Still advocating for Biped magy

Would help it

[feral solstice]

As long as it’s the CC King with good endurance it should be fine

I’ll get the control I recommend though

Controls*

[still raptor]

Should be banished to the deep forests

That would help it even more tbh

[feral solstice]

Personally, after seeing the fact magy only has poison to help it survive, I feel that it's not enough to ensure magy survives. But after discussing it in #401464048610312195, I have came up with the a conclusion for how magy should attack:

Magy Combat controls!

LMB: A bite, dealing slighly above decent damage. Its just.. well, a bite. But it has a bite speed comparable to that of a Utah.

Alt-LMB: A neck whack. Dealing CC and decent damage, allowing it to get a headstart in running away from a creature that decides to attack it, or if anything smaller is feeble enough to attack it.

RMB: A directional shoulder bash, that deals CC, bleed, and decent damage. This can buy itself enough time to gain enough distance with its amazing endurance. (Now for some of y'all confused that it deals bleed, its osteoderms are sharp)

Alt-RMB: A rear up ability. If everything else doesn't work, or if magy feels threatened, it can rear up. This can serve two purposes:
• Eating.
• Defense.

Eating: When magy is beside a tree while reared up, the message "Press 'E' to eat!" will appear.

Defense: When magy is reared up, it enters its defense position. This gives it two options:

Stomp - Press LMB while reared up to stomp. This inflicts whoever is stomped with fractures, and heavy CC. If the magy misses, it'll have a 1-1.5 second attack window for its opponent. So becareful!

RMB: Cancels the defense position.

[solar quarry]

Because the reason magy is the way it is, is the envirement it lived, no preditor and scarse food, that's why it's small

[hoary dawn]

i know why its small

[still raptor]

Neck wack

[solar quarry]

Evrima has preditors that this dino was not evolved to deal with

[still raptor]

Give Magy decent trample

[solar quarry]

So you would have to come up with something very enrealistic for it to be viable

But I'm open for ideas

[still raptor]

Ovi was not evolved to deal with Carnotaurus.

The entire roster wasn't evolved to deal with each other

Utah wasn't evolved to deal with Rex

Etc etc

[hoary dawn]

herra wasn't evolved to deal with most of the roster, but the devs are still making it work by giving it an unrealistic ability

[still raptor]

Sometimes you have to give it unrealistic abilities

To make the creature

....

viable

[solar quarry]

It doesn't have to be specific species, I'm talking about something that had no preditor in its ecosystem. All other dinosaurs have some kind of defense mechanism that helped against any kind of preditor

[hoary dawn]

with magy there's no real way around it, you either give it some fictionalization to make it good or you make it realistic so its unviable

[still raptor]

Magy can also be made to have defense mechanism

[hoary dawn]

its coming to the game whether we like it or not, i just think it would be a waste to not at least make it work

[solar quarry]

It's like trying to play as a goat in evrima, you are just food

[hoary dawn]

magy can be given the tools it needs to be good

[solar quarry]

I would rather have it replaced with more viable sauropod

[hoary dawn]

i would too

but since that aint happening

[rare fractal]

I get you, there are other sauropods I would have picked first but there are ways to make it work. They're just baseless is all

[dreamy bison]

Magy can have it’s own island to live on where the only predators will be ptera, quetz, or gators

[hoary dawn]

no

[solar quarry]

Lol just like IRL

[dreamy bison]

yeah

Maybe they will have a swamp biome with water where magy can wade through but gators can’t swim in

[hoary dawn]

better to make it able to survive among the rest of the roster instead of sectioning it off

[dreamy bison]

And it can avoid predators in the water