general-feedback-discussion

[tawny stag]

Because of the high contrast in the menu, this is how the light distorts what i see. The blue just looks brighter to me, but this is what my non-existing photoshop skills could manage.

This was not an issue before with the old one. Please don't implement this as is, cause it will affect people like me with astigmatism, and to me it's straight up unplayable because of the headaches i get.

• I had to quit before even getting to select a dino because it hurt.

#general-feedback message

[noble vortex]

I agree the contrast is rather harsh, and the colors are very saturated

[tawny stag]

They are. I mean, i wouldn't mind it if this was optional. Ngl the blue does look good, but this will exclude some of the already low pop playerbase.

[noble vortex]

I personally really liked the old UI, it needed an update for sure but it also feels like the life was sucked out of it, especially the main menu..
-# bring back the cool dinos videos playing in the background please

[icy lion]

Do the different colors help?

[tawny stag]

Oh indeed!

[frigid mica]

i really wonder people were crying about omni pin but now rex can do allo can do even better like to fg carno or cera

[indigo notch]

Rex makes sense so idc. Allo looks goofy

[frigid mica]

not only that dibble and trike also kinda has same like knock down and trash so kinda instant death

[tired quest]

plus the penalty for rex missed their pin is huge (not as much like deino misses their lundge), allo can just spam it

[frigid mica]

i remember people were crying for no counter play but today's meta everthing oneshots

[indigo notch]

At least dibble doesn’t one shot but yeah I can see trike knockdown. Trike can literally knock a stego down and kill it in one thrash

[frigid mica]

depends on who to did

[indigo notch]

True but Rex still needs a bug fix to his G cancel

[frigid mica]

that's not the case these abilities doesn't have counter play also

i was just wondering if people still crying about how strong raptor is 😄

[indigo notch]

Raptor is a joke right now I haven’t seen a single raptor player since allo dropped

[frigid mica]

yeah usless pretty weak

i don't know much detail about the balance but i guess cera faster than prime omni right ?

[indigo notch]

Prime Omni at 100% is 40kmh. Adult cera is 40.2 kmh so yes he’s faster

[frigid mica]

cera faster than omni i meaan WHAT!!

40 kmh is usless bro idk what devs thinking

[stoic vault]

The T-Rex is fine as it is

[indigo notch]

How? Trike has no fighting chance since he just gets leg break

[stoic vault]

Bro, before they were complaining about the damage and now about the fracture. If you let a T. rex crush you three times, it's obvious you lack skill.

[indigo notch]

The damage needs a buff at the cost of nerfing the fracture because fracture is too broken

I made a suggestion about this here

#general-feedback message

[stoic vault]

It's best to leave it as it is.

[wind mesa]

@neat dawn #general-feedback message in addition they could make it have a super long cooldown, since they don't want people spamming it each time they get a spawn they don't like!

[pliant elm]

Unfortunately, I don't think there will be many more Omnis. Why play with Omni when you have Allo, which is literally a bigger Omni?

Poor omni

[proper mantle]

i never understand when the admins say they wont add a kill command, that "people will abuse it" how will people abuse a suicide button

[frozen heron]

@stoic vault It was already fixed, rex is just vulnerable to bleed

[stoic vault]

Do you think it's fair that a pounce's sting can drain a T-Rex of blood? What an ignorant person you are.

[frozen heron]

Lol?

You're a sub. If it was an adult or prime allo the odds were in their favor

Maybe i shouldnt have bothered with the person with blatant rex bias regardless

[wind mesa]

hmm... honestly i'm not super sure. Perhaps dying away from people hunting you so they can't get to your body? Or using it everytime they spawn in, so that you end up with piles of juvi bodies at their spawns?

honestly though, if they can add parameters for /unstuck to be used, they can add parameters for /kill. That's what testing is for

[proper mantle]

i mean if you get away and are being chased you can already do that by jumping off a cliff or smthn maybe they want to avoid swapping spawns but people are gonna do it with or without the command

[wind mesa]

yes i agree! i think a /kill command could be a huge quality of life update, and they can always make it unusable right after spawning if they dont want people doing that. Especially since no admins are available for unstucks most of the time!

that, or they rework the /unstuck command a bit to make it more useful. Either way is good.

[wintry cipher]

I am for changes to this but imo fracture could be made so much healthier in that matchup. If a trike gets a broken leg it shouldnt be unable to use its kit. Imo the best way would simply be to slow it. Now rex can choose to flee a fight or keep fighting and it comes down to skill

Suddenly damage vs fracture damage doesnt matter so much. If Fracture ruins an engagement, it needs to change

[waxen moon]

@final flame the problem i see with your feedback is that the difference between the elder and adult is to big, other than taht i would agree. but a 395kg omniraptor is unplayable

[final flame]

And an omni weighing 395kg, and also with its speed and damage nerfed due to age, isn't that worse?

[waxen moon]

but prime is 660kg

thats worth it

[final flame]

Then get anothers mutations

[waxen moon]

we just dont need the gap to be this big maybe like adult 500kg and prime 600kg

[final flame]

That's with Dondi, I just try to propose something that everyone is happy with. Besides, since it's a mutation, only those who want it can have it. If you want your Prime Elder, then go ahead. I just want to play without my dino being an old one with sclerosis, or food for Allos.

[lean escarp]

im kind of worried about this new UI, because obviously its a WIP, and has been planned to replace the old UI for a lot longer than we think (check devblogs)
my guess is their original concept of the new UI is the actual menu UI, not in-game
but now, if they want to push hordetest into live within the near future (2+ weeks), they will either push a half-baked UI or delay the live update by however long to work on the new UI.

I really like their approach, its just very plain right now, and kind of all over the place (bc its a wip). my main gripes are

• the fonts are inconsistent between menu and in-game UI, and both fonts imo don't fit very well with the theme
• some CRT and gentle border-warping overlays would actually make it feel very alive
• the in-game UI looks completely different compared to the menu UI (bad bloom/neon effects, cyan instead of deep blue, font is completely different + feels very unresponsive)
• though blue is my fav color, especially deep blues, its not a very user-friendly color and causes a lot of eye strain for people with sensitive vision, and should be changed across the board. i feel like most people wouldn't mind it being reverted to the old green

the (non-functional) optional colors for the menu UI (green/white/red) currently dont stick and dont matter at all when actually playing the game... so that's not really user-accessibility, it's "what's your favorite color? red? awesome! idc"

[jovial arch]

I posted a suggestion earlier, I think a mutation that reduces stat decay by a fixed percentage would be better, this way it can be a mutation that is more of a reward for repeated replications, let’s say it reduces decay by 10% on first replication but then by 4th replication it would reduce it by 50%.

This would still leave some room for max primes to unseat them, but would make the dinosaur still generally viable and functional. It would also reward players who had invested significant time into their dinos, I think it makes sense for someone who has successfully replicated 4-5 times to be able to keep their Dino instead of being forced to replicate again and again

I’m not strictly against your suggestion, but I think it’s better if mechanics reward you for playing with other mechanics, and reducing stat decay as a mutation would nicely integrate as a long term reward for people willing to grind out a dino across multiple replications

[trim field]

yo im testing out the nesting mut on maia and it wont let me make the nest, is there a way to fix that? i can place it just not build it

[glad arrow]

why cant i get into us3?????

[lunar parcel]

Reduce the bleed of allo because wtaf. i bled out to one alt bite

[forest gate]

just a couple more buffs and cera will be ready

[indigo notch]

@lofty pumice Dilo and Troodon both have better night vision than Rex long range. Rex has better 5-10 meter radius night vision (cough cough ambush predator) while Troodon and Dilo both have better 10+ meter night vision radius than Rex. Rex literally only sees black screen from far away

[exotic basin]

it wouldn't ''reduce their gameplay options to just camping bodies'' considering hererra players already camp bodies lol. it's literally an aspect of their hunting/ambush mechanism. additionally, i really doubt tree leaves making noises just like the bushes/grass/ all other foliage does would dissuade hererra players from normal game play - it doesn't do that for any other ground player/playable who deals with environmental noise every session. the game would hands down be way more immersive and fun with the ability to hear a predator moving around in the trees. hererra hopping through dense tree foliage dead silent just feels wrong compared to the rest of the game.

[limber hull]

#general-feedback message

rex an endurance predator???

[woven bane]

camping bodies is not a core aspect of their hunting, that’s just a strategy players came up with which dosen’t make much sense to me regardless, why hunt if you already have food yk. being an ambush hunter dosen’t equate to being sedentary in 1 spot, bush noises isn’t bad for playables on ground because unlike herrera they aren’t heavily reliant on the element of surprise. again it dosen’t move through trees dead silent, there are sounds in place people can hear if they are attentive and we got deino another ambush hunter who can move perfectly silent and unseen underwater

[primal valley]

i don't think that was the main focus of the feedback

[exotic basin]

i just don't agree with you, sorry.

[limber hull]

sure, but everything else i've read before

the endurance rex thing was the only thing that caught me off guard for being something i haven't heard before lol

[topaz glade]

#general-feedback message Thats the best idea. Id even delete pounce for allo and do this “grapple” mechanic for all legs, but for front legs only teeth and back legs teeth with claws. P.s. and do high bleed damage and low raw

[iron knoll]

which is laughable, why is a 9.5 ton/12.3 ton bleed out faster than anything in the game XD it makes no sense how quickly it bleeds, it needs a buff on the bleed resist

[iron knoll]

the thing is, how do you make it look that the stego can't swing at you while doing it

[topaz glade]

It will do animation same like when pounced kinda

Thats not my full idea so idk

[iron knoll]

but definitely allo pounce needs a change! pouncing its a death sentence right now, the dismounting leaves u stun and open for the stego/trike/rex to demolish you

[frozen heron]

The feedback was about sub rex, not adult or prime

[limber hull]

It doesn’t. Rex has the same bleed res as stego, teno, carno, omni, herrera, troodon, beipi, dilo, ptera, galli, allo, dryo and hypsi

It’s got average bleed res, which is none

[topaz glade]

Tbh I thought at first that devs would do grapple and hold onto prey than pounce same as utah, thats not interesting

[iron knoll]

what? did they buff it? cause last time i played its definitely not, it has the worst bleed resist

[limber hull]

Nope, they didn’t buff it

[topaz glade]

It makes allo the same but bigger utah

[limber hull]

It’s just always had average bleed res

[frozen heron]

Rex just fights things with a lot of bleed that it can catch up to which is trike and stego
Which is why it feels like it has bad res

[limber hull]

There’s nothing to buff it from, most animals in this game have absolutely zero bleed res, and nothing has negative bleed res

[iron knoll]

no it had negative bleed resist! way worse than trike and stego, not even comparable to cera, it was carno level, if not worse.... 2 stego power swings would bleed out a rex if it doesnt sit XD

cera trike, dibble maia, they wouldnt bleed out from 2 power swings

[limber hull]

No, this is absolutely untrue

Trike has bleed resist, sure, but stego does not

[iron knoll]

i been fighting stegos since i started playing teh game... been hit by it, survived, never struggled with bleed like i did with rex!

stego still has better bleed resist than rex

u never even played rex, how would you know his bleed resist is XD

[limber hull]

Maia also has no bleed res now that you mention it

I forgot about Maia for a second, my bad

[iron knoll]

i still survived 2 power swings iwthout sitting

[limber hull]

I have played Rex

[iron knoll]

lets not talk about why i tried a stego as maia but

[iron knoll]

did u even fight anything? or got to fg?

[limber hull]

No, got wiped and gave up lol

I did fight an allo tho

Young one

[iron knoll]

then your rex didnt bleed XD

rex has the worst bleed resist! its absolute trash, and i just dont understand why it should have this low bleed resist..... bleed regen is brokenly fast, which its stupid, just like trikes.... trike and rex should not heal fast... the bigger the dino the longer it should take to heal

[limber hull]

It bled pretty bad, but that’s just allo tbh, I don’t think it’s because Rex has any special bleed vulnerability

Also I was small

[iron knoll]

when the bleed was broken, i surivved cause i had bleed resist..... one bite to the face got me to 10% bleed

[limber hull]

You’re right, it does have the worst bleed res, so does stego, Maia, teno, carno, omni, etc

They all have the worst bleed res of 0

[limber hull]

Yea that’s allo for you

[iron knoll]

yea, i dont think allo is a good example right now!

but aside from that what is bleeding out a stego XD or a maia.... even on omni is more worth to kill with dmg

rex bleeds with everything, allo just kills a rex in one pounce

[limber hull]

Allo bleeds out Maia very easily

Stego is just good at defending itself from getting attacked in the first place

[iron knoll]

bleed will be fixed from allo, it should still give a lot of bleed, in the end it only has that on its side, which pounce is very stituational, its more the times u cant pounce than the times u can pounce

[limber hull]

Stego also moves around a lot less than Rex, and movement significantly increases your rate of bleed

[iron knoll]

already, if the targets are 2, u cant pounce them

[iron knoll]

meh, depends on the fight, rex camps as well, unless its a trike or stego.... i wouldnt fight allos in the open

[limber hull]

Something trotting around bleeds out two times faster than something standing still

[iron knoll]

okay, but rex bleed resist is the worst of the worst.... stego has much better bleed resist than rex

[limber hull]

It does not

Stego has no bleed resist

Same as Rex

[iron knoll]

u are clueless

as usual, talking without knowing

[limber hull]

I quite literally have tested this when I was on QA, stego has no bleed res

[junior nymph]

I reckon mr allo has more knowledge than you shady

[iron knoll]

yet hasnt played rex ahahah

or fought anything as rex, or never got to fg

[barren crater]

I don't think rex needs a buff in that department. Allo may be overperforming still.

[junior nymph]

I got prime on no ai, got adult on AI played multiple times, fought stegos, trikes and dibbles and maias. its not that bad

[junior nymph]

I mean its math does make it seem that it is

[iron knoll]

i consider it bad, beacuse its 9/12 ton power house, bleeding more than 1300kg carno, which makes no sense. im not saying it doesnt survive

[junior nymph]

when I was playing it wasnt bleeding that badly, unless I was fighting two stegos

[iron knoll]

usually fights are over before you bleed out as rex, u either die or win but, its still something concerning, and i cant see why. i guess its a way to not have it endure long fights

[junior nymph]

I mean rex is a ambusher so that makes sense

[indigo notch]

He’s also a brawler

[fiery hill]

@maiden anvil afaik the pounce stance doesnt slow you down, just visually makes you crouch, its as fast as the trot, but just stops you from being able to slide

[foggy field]

I dont like how we are currently aging so quickly

Like i barely get to enjoy being a adult

And there are elders everywhere

[maiden anvil]

Oh… my bad

[fallen berry]

Anyone else think the main screen ui for hordetest is horrible?

[limber hull]

i think it's sick as hell lol

[fallen berry]

Its so basic and bland, and the color just smacks you in the face. It feels like theres nothing to it

I so much prefer the ui evrima has

[limber hull]

to me it feels the opposite of basic

it's designed after old 80s/90s computers, something i dont see many games doing at all

[torn cedar]

Just this morning reading through the last few suggestions. Most of the players appear to be on HT and not the stable version. HT is supposed to be for testing, there will be bugs, there will be inbalances. Those animals will be wiped.

[junior nymph]

@south sandal its a rollback, you are playing on a test server + don said this so yes, just grow small tiers until this rollback issue is under control

[south sandal]

but like 5 hours of growth gone?

[junior nymph]

yea

[south sandal]

crazy

[junior nymph]

its normal for a rollback like that to happen tbh

its hordetest, dont expect things to run smooth, if you think that you are in a dream

[lofty pumice]

Explain that to my black screen while on elder troo 💀 maybe the non HT branch but in this current branch neither creatures can see anything, maybe Rex also got it bad rn but from the video’s I saw it looked better bc far away night vision barely matters at this stage

You just see the schadows of trees ngl

[icy lion]

@sinful zenith Spino is planned

[sage harness]

does anyone know if eldering is bugged?
i was in 11 different pz, 3 mz, sanc, perfect diet 2x, no spasms, no infertile

still frail elder wtf

[barren remnant]

its already gonna be added, but i think it would be better to first get austro then bary which is whats gonna happen

austro will be a food source for bary and bary will be a great predator for baby deinos.

@sinful zenith

[obtuse wing]

I believe the Diabloceratops should be a herbivore equivalent to a Cera or Carno.

I also think that, because we’re traumatized by the balance issues from Legacy and the mix-packs, we started to believe that every herbivore needs to be extremely powerful and able to live alone.

However, there are much better ways to create something interesting with the mechanics we already have than simply saying, “increase this creature’s weight.”
Kentrosaurus is on the way. Does anyone really think it needs to weigh 3 tons to be viable? Or can mechanics and proper adjustments make it good even while being small?

Just something to think about increasing weight to make a creature viable is the easiest and laziest approach.

[indigo gulch]

@slim haven yeah it’s bugged

[slim haven]

big sad 🙁

thanks for letting me know at least

[indigo gulch]

👍🏻

[slim haven]

do you know if it's just the Allo or is it same for all playables?

[indigo gulch]

All playables. My deino doesnt have mutations either. I’ve been told it’s dependant on the server, but I haven’t tested it yet

Apologies for the wait, I was eating dinner

[slim haven]

no worries, thanks again

[indigo gulch]

😁👍🏻

[wary cargo]

Mutations still broken in HT?

[indigo gulch]

As far as I know

[covert tiger]

@lunar parcel what u on about
No need for bleed? That's literally the one thing that it needs.
Allos damage is less than a cera.

Bleed is the main way it'll kill it's targets.
If you aren't bleeding out to allo you won't bleed out to anything.

[covert lantern]

Not on every Server

[normal shuttle]

Teno and Kentro are already there as the cera or carno equivalent brawler, plus ava might as well be a little below one ton, leaving the classic isle mid tier dibble in a very comfortable spot especially when styracosaurus and pachyrhinosaurus are still somewhat in the limbo for all we know. Devs simply care more about gameplay than realism, and giant dibble capable of fighting things like allo has been a thing for as long as I remember, with no chances forced by mixpacks: players and the devs just like dibble to be like that as a medium sized ceratopsian

I would also say that, at least from what I have played, dibble is by far one of the healthiest herbivores for the game once it reaches adulthood alongside teno and maia. It has a high skill cap while still giving options for bad players, it fulfills a niche that is actually very different from trike and it has tools to deal with various opponents of different sizes

If anything, it could probably do with a buff to its younger stages, but it does not really have any balance issue that isn’t derived from its interactions with some game mechanics or inherent game issues like latency. Right now it is pretty much what it is meant to be.

Dibble is already one of the better herbivores in the game, and frankly it used to be like this in legacy as well. If anything, it is one of the most inoffensive playables to the meta currently while still one of the most successful ones for years

And I’m glad they translated it so well from the highly viable herbivore pitbull it was in legacy survival to the high skill deceptively agile brawler that is now.

[obtuse wing]

No, I used to play Diabloceratops on Legacy a long time ago, and there we were always targeted by groups of Allosaurus. Forget about it here; you'll never see six adult Diablosceratops, and if you do, you'll have worse gameplay.

[obtuse wing]

He's the worst. Try forming a group of 6 adults and stop constantly going to PvP-only locations.

Even Pachys has much better gameplay than the current Diablo in groups, Tenontos too, which is why we see them in larger groups.(teno)

when we see them

[normal shuttle]

Not a problem when dibble could put up with 2 easily. And sure, groups are fundamentally not balanced because they are a non default option that gives enormous benefit, but game sense (which is vital in the isle) did prevent deaths by allo packs, which funnily enough are the only consistent threat I can think of in that branch when they are competent.

[normal shuttle]

Why would I form a group of 6 adults? And I don’t get your point there. Maybe you could elaborate?

[obtuse wing]

Currently, Diabloceratops only destroys the possibility of becoming a Styraco; it's too strong to be a Diablo and absurdly weak to be a Styraco.

[normal shuttle]

Saying PACHY has a gameplay better than dibble is actually crazy. That thing can barely defend itself from dilos 💔 right now it’s just a troll ambush herbivore. At least dibble actually succeeds defending itself

[obtuse wing]

For the same reason you form a group of 8 omniraptors.

[obtuse wing]

Pachy is played less today because it's slow and has too slow a gait; Diabloceratops would be a perfect balance

[normal shuttle]

There’s no should be. All design choices are submitted to the gameplay and the different roles that the devs intend for each of the over 50 playables to fulfill. If styraco comes to the game one day, it will sure be unique enough to not be a big styraco or a small trike.

[gray flicker]

they forgot to do the color thing for the health in tab

[normal shuttle]

Pachy is played less because it fundamentally sucks as a solo player, which make up for the majority of isle players.

It brings high value in groups and works pretty well in packs with other pachies, but solo it is worthless as it needs to worry about many things that it either cannot consistently escape or simply risks death while using its ability

[obtuse wing]

Unfortunately, I have to leave for work now, but I can continue tomorrow

[normal shuttle]

Sure

[normal shuttle]

Meanwhile dibble only really has to worry about sub rex and allo (which needs a nerf and tweaking anyway) when these are in groups in terms of things it cannot consistently escape of fight, but then again groups should not be considered

It is alongside teno one of the best balanced fighters by far

But alas, I feel like niche overlap is what stops dibble from being closer to its irl counterpart

Magy, Teno and Kentro are defensive herbivores in that range that all go about it differently

[indigo notch]

Sub Rex needs tweaking? How? I don’t think allo needs a nerf either he seems to be in a good spot. Pin needs a rework tho

[normal shuttle]

Nah sub rex is fine

I meant allo

Allo just needs refinement and it will be good

Dibble still holds up

And it is kinda compensated by its horrendous early game

[indigo notch]

As it should

Dibble should be far stronger than anything in its own weight class, especially when it’s a herbivore. There’s barely any herbivore players

[normal shuttle]

I’m one of them

I just find them far more interesting right now

[urban flax]

booo herbi main

[normal shuttle]

I know I’m a loser

I eat green and not red

[urban flax]

Herbivores have tiny brains because their only purpose is to serve as food for better species

[woven bane]

ever heard of the saying you are what you eat? broccoli brain

[tall vine]

@obtuse wing why Did People disagree with your dibble ideas?

[urban flax]

This saying is very true for skinwalkers

[lunar parcel]

Unstuck command doesn’t work, not suprised

[final flame]

I really don't know who was the people that have the idea of give pounce to the allo...
Is gigantic raptor now. 3 prime allows are most scariest than 3 rexes, because rexes are slow and low stamina.
Maybe the best way to balance allo is changing the pin ability for other. And my god that bleed

[frank notch]

A lie actually. I've found many creative ways for dealing with carnivores.

I prefer to play the more nimble herbies. I find them more fun.

[foggy field]

Primes being to common is also a issue

[faint torrent]

anyone know how to access the mutations on allo right now theres no options

[unreal drum]

so competent players are an issue?

[foggy field]

Nah, we are aging way to quick

[unreal drum]

thats completely different however,thats a growth problem being too fast not prime elder being common as you said

[limber hull]

Probably because

• It nerfs dibble for little to no reason
• Turns it into a “herd dinosaur”, which is quite literally the worst thing you can be in this game
• Removes the only true herbivore rival to allo immediately after allo is released

[foggy field]

Prime elder itself is not a issue, the current issue is that there is way to much elders, the minority is adults since we boom rush adult phase and get to prime/frail elder way to fast

[faint torrent]

how many allos can be in a group?

[unreal drum]

3

[faint torrent]

thanks and also anyone know how to access the mutations on allo right now theres no options

[wooden agate]

isn't this... what it does? #general-feedback message

[junior nymph]

#general-feedback message I hate when people put multiple suggestions into one feedback post because theres some stuff that I agree on and theres others that I just dont agree on

it kinda skews votes icl

[austere dagger]

sorry if you talking about my last suggestion with the NV/Rain and food problem tho 😄

[junior nymph]

yes. i agree with NV and Rain but not food

[austere dagger]

just frustratig if my last 3 hours of gameplay looked like black and noisy starving contest

[junior nymph]

I never starve on carnivores for the most part

ai is everywhere

[austere dagger]

HT or Evrima branch?

[junior nymph]

both

[austere dagger]

played HT on EU 1 for 3 hours today

not a single AI in sight

[junior nymph]

HT literally also has more ai than evrima

[austere dagger]

only food i saw were dead allo bodys

[junior nymph]

thats because they dont run to you, they make noises

what you think could be ambiance could be ai

[austere dagger]

well i know...there is the next point....of these 2-3 hours of gameplay like 3/4 of that was thunderstorm

[junior nymph]

yea, I get that the weather is annoying icl, like I weather once in a while but not always

[austere dagger]

i mean maybe just really unlucky day for me but its hella frustrating

[junior nymph]

sometimes you just have those days

[austere dagger]

do you know if they addressed any of these problems?

[junior nymph]

honestly, dont know, I know amarok doesnt like the constant rain (amarok being zanorak on discord)

when I have played with the guy he also doesnt seem too keen on the constant rain

[austere dagger]

its killing my mood to play this game tbh

[junior nymph]

yea I hear that

[austere dagger]

all these small things add up and for me theisle always was something to kinda relax but also getting into it with every run

but nowadays its just a question if im lucky finding ai and survive until i can hunt players or just starve 😄

[final flame]

Some servers are empty, Evrima and HT

[limber hull]

the HT doesn't have any no AI servers yet

[junior nymph]

I dont understand why thats important

[final flame]

I am talking about AI

[junior nymph]

oh, you are just wrong, if that was true believe it or not every server would have no ai

its just can you find it or not

[final flame]

Then my 100% raptor was the most bad luck raptor in the server

And my cera to

[limber hull]

cera doesn't even really need AI

[final flame]

When you are a little bug

And no players around

[limber hull]

it can eat rotten meat, bones, pretty much everything, and smell it from a mile away

[final flame]

YOu need it

[limber hull]

to be honest, you still scavenge and don't really need AI while small

[final flame]

I agree is my fav dino since i was a child(27 years now), but if you spawn in a desolate place of the map, and no ai, you are dead

If you guys say that Ai is spawning, ok, maybe i just have bad luck

[final flame]

Scavenge what?, from what players?

[junior nymph]

you dont really need ai imo

atleast for the most part

[limber hull]

#general-feedback message

this is a really bad idea for many reasons lol and would require yet another complete rebalance of all speeds

[junior nymph]

@calm crown theres a issue I see with this, one is allo did have a stun when it was datamined and it was disgusting, you could not do anything about the thing, I had a idea myself which some hate some like which is lowering the amount of allos that are able to get onto a target, but the difference is you enable solo grappling for the allo, for example maia and dibble could only allow one allo to actually pounce onto it, this means a maia or dibble that is low on either stam, health or blood will get pinned but a maia or dibble on full HP wont be pinned, this means for an allo pack to successfully kill a maia or dibble they would have to use the technique of one actually pouncing on while the two others in the allo pack have to use their claw swipes and bites and such to wittle down the maia or dibble getting it into solo grapple range causing it to be pinned to the ground, imo this would fix the issue of allos just pinning litterally everything on the roster and ignoring the rest of its kit while instead you would have 1 allo doing the pounce and the rest using its kit which imo makes it a more fun fight for the allos and the prey that its fighting, something like this

[junior nymph]

indeed!

I have experienced both sides so

I just hate the hold rmb to win type mechanic

[calm crown]

The problem is that the allo pin isnt just that its overpowered and should be nerfed, its a recycled mechanic from other creatures, your suggestion seems to just be - how about instead of pin, you get pinned with slight conditions. Any creature could come out of a fight and just get pinned by an allo no questions asked thats pretty rediculous

[limber hull]

Lots of mechanics in this game are indeed made to be reused

[junior nymph]

I agree that allo pin should be nerfed, never said it shouldnt be same with its bleed, but its just giving a unique approach to a issue that maias and dibbles have been facing

[limber hull]

You'll be seeing most ceratopsians working with the exact same sparring system

[junior nymph]

wendi did you play the datamined allo btw?

[urban flax]

I love how allo is proving to be a terrible addition to the roster
Confirming what so many people were thinking

[limber hull]

also i dont see how a stun/knockdown is more unique than a pounce/latch?

[junior nymph]

it would kinda just feel like carno but fat i would think

[calm crown]

I agree that some mechanics are inevitably going to be similar when you have similar dinosaurs like ceratopsians- The devs said they wanted each creature to feel different and I can say Dibble feels very different to trike in many ways. Allo just feels like big raptor without jump.

[limber hull]

yea tbh, it's just carno things

i think expecting all 55 creatures to have completely unique mechanics is a little silly

[calm crown]

where did you pull that number out of bro

[limber hull]

the confirmed roster

multiple animals will fracture, multiple animals will pin, multiple animals will spar, so on, so forth

[junior nymph]

wave I dont think wendi is saying all dinos need to have new mechanics, I think they are saying it just shouldnt be raptor but big

[limber hull]

yea but a stun/knockdown doesn't help it at all in big game hunting

[calm crown]

uhhhh.... yes it does

[limber hull]

how? the weight threshhold exists

[calm crown]

when youve killed a steg as a dibble i can say it works fine

[limber hull]

unless you want allo's stuns to somehow extend further than a diablo's

[junior nymph]

I mean don has said he wants allo to be a cama hunter on stream

[limber hull]

i personally think that's absurd but y'know

[junior nymph]

a stun wouldnt really do that

[limber hull]

i'd stop at trike lmao

sub camaras i get but allo hunting an adult camara seems ridiculous

especially with a group limit of 3

unless the intention is quite literally for allo to megapack

[junior nymph]

5 entire fat allos pounce the gentle giant camarasaurus and the cama just says ok Ill die just like in jwe!

[limber hull]

see, that's a megapack vs an AFK camara, and that's the only way I seeing that reliably happening

[calm crown]

But cama isn't on the roster probably for another few years knowing this game. Maybe they shouldnt be balancing creatures for stuff that doesnt exist yet?

[junior nymph]

I reckon don will try by the end of the hordetest to get allos group to 4

[junior nymph]

I agree, but also

[limber hull]

it's literally on the roster for extremely soon

[calm crown]

extremely soon for the isle is not extremely soon bro

[rancid plover]

extremely soon in terms of the isle development is not soon

[junior nymph]

HI ROTTING! haven't spoke to you in a while

[limber hull]

i genuinely think people vastly oversell how long isle development takes lmao

[junior nymph]

but also these are all in the files apart from ovi

and cama is right after ovi

[limber hull]

ovi has been heard ingame too apparently

[junior nymph]

indeed ill get the clip

[calm crown]

i think you overestimate how much dondi needs his boots licked

[rancid plover]

that will be ages away if thats the case

[limber hull]

so... he doesn't need his boots licked much at all?

idk what you're talking about

[junior nymph]

https://www.youtube.com/clip/Ugkx3vkikZAvDX6Gxu6PSwBprvcx369aSPbq

[limber hull]

although i love how apparently not having a problem with devtime = me loving dondi somehow

[urban flax]

islecord

[limber hull]

true tho

[urban flax]

Either you hate the game and everything and everyone pertaining to it, either you're a filthy submissive doggy bootlicker

[calm crown]

im ssaying isle development does take a while, its a small team and im not saying they should rush or whatever but to have a creature thats balanced for something thats coming in maybe a year or longer is wild

[limber hull]

strawmen screaming at strawmen to stop being strawmen

[junior nymph]

what has this devolved into...

[urban flax]

WHAT
How was THAT a banned word
I have questions

[rancid plover]

ngl i cant think of any other game that can be in early access for 10 years that would be this dedicated to developers who do not care about the community (example: the insane wipes with no apology or warning)

[junior nymph]

what

[limber hull]

i genuinely have no idea what the time between now and camara has to do with allo in the first place actually lmao

[urban flax]

I tired to answer to you
But what I typed was a banned word
For some reason

[calm crown]

yeah idk this has got off track

[limber hull]

if it's always intended to hunt camara, it'll need the tools to have it irregardless of if cama is in or not

[calm crown]

Thats a wild take bro

[urban flax]

The warning is in the name "hordetesting"
It's an unstable branch

[limber hull]

the alternative is making it a different animal for its entire lifetime, then reworking it when cama comes out

which i think is silly

[calm crown]

or, hear me out, releasing it right before camara

[limber hull]

a little too late for that

[calm crown]

real asf

[rancid plover]

I understand that, but I also feel like there is no problem writing a 10 second announcement that they are going to wipe.

[calm crown]

its hard to hordetest when you get wiped every 5 seconds

[limber hull]

imma be real, i dont think the wipes are intentional and i dont think they CAN warn about it

[junior nymph]

its not actually wiping, its instead rollbacking, kinda how au was like a year ago where it would always go back to a certain time

[limber hull]

it's a server issue

since they swapped servers and are still testing them

(hordetesting)

[urban flax]

It's disingenuous to ask for that while you're willingly opting in to a test branch to test unfinished features
Hordetesting is not here as an early access for new playables and features
Its purpose is to break things

[calm crown]

the point is that people lose all their progress with no apology, warning or communication. I think we should hold the devs to higher standards tbh

[limber hull]

they... they were warned

not just from the fact that it's an unstable branch, but dondi literally warned people

[junior nymph]

I mean... they have talked about it and acknowledged the issue in isle discussion, I would kinda like a actual announcement to say it (but icl punch hasnt done something for ages and he is the community manager)

[rancid plover]

The recent patchnotes in announcements didnt even bother to write patchnotes. I dont know, literally no other dev team would get away with the stuff this game does.

[calm crown]

If i have to join dondis twitch stream to hear stuff its not proper communication it should be in announcements. Also this isnt just a HT issue its happened before on regular branch

[rancid plover]

Can you forward where he said this by chance?

I understand hordetest in general is unstable, I am not new here, but these are some of the most scuffed server issues I have seen with little warning

[calm crown]

AU server was down 36 hours and then all progress gone

with no communication

thats rediculous. Im extremely busy and I did everything i had to do rushed and early so I could continue growing a rex for it to be gone for like 3 days then poofed into the abyss

[rancid plover]

I think people forget this is a game we paid for. The game you get when you buy it is well out of date (Legacy), you have to go to the discord to figure out there is even a new branch, and then you go to that branch and it is bugged to hell.
This game is 10 years old. We are paying for this. This is the product we have.

[urban flax]

There are no wipes on the evrima branch

[calm crown]

God forbid we hold this game to some sort of standard

[limber hull]

i mean, sure, but holding the unstable testing branch to the same standard is a lil strange

[urban flax]

I just find complaining about issues in an opt-in unstable testing branch a gross misunderstanding of what said testing branch actually means

I want to try out new playables and features just as much as anyone else here
But I don't play hordetesting because I'm not willing to put up with the tons of issues it's going to have
I prefer to play things once they are polished, stable and somewhat balanced

[calm crown]

now you guys are just being purposfully ignorant- we're talking about communication, it feels a lot of the time that they aren't as active in the community as other indie game devs are and its very disapointing

anyway im done with ts you can reply but thats it for me

[limber hull]

dont they literally come into this discord to randomly converse and ask questions and get ideas

literally a short bit ago, dondi took my idea for human food eating ovi

which, btw, i am very happy about lmao

[latent olive]

WAIT REALLY

PLEASE TELL ME THATS TRUE I NEED TO SEE PROOF

I LOVE TIN CAN EATER OVIRAPTOR

[limber hull]

read em and weep

[urban flax]

I thought you loved Megalania

[latent olive]

https://tenor.com/view/throt-the-unclean-gif-22101464

[normal shuttle]

@ripe fractal deino is just terrible right now

You’re better off waiting for a rework

[ripe fractal]

i've lost a few day trying to grow it

either cheater or impossible requirements

growing rex is also stupid idea cuz server wipes every 1-2days or u just die to a huge mixpack with cheaters

ht is just unplayable, feels like devs just dont give a f

[tall vine]

i can see that bothering some people, pin is oppressive af it needs a rework before that resize could be a good thing

[limber hull]

IDK, even then, I don't think a resize is a great idea

because again, it's the only true herbivore rival to allo

[tall vine]

true

it can be a good thing if there's a substitute to rival allo and then there's not a small game ceratopsian

[normal shuttle]

And as I said, although I am not well versed in game design, it feels like a huge niche overlap to have magy (I presuppose it is going to have some strong deterrent or defensive lean), teno, kentro and then dibble into the 1-2 ton size range, when dibble is already quite unique in its own weight class as we do not know if styraco will be like it or release in the first place

Alongside all the reasons you provided when dibble is one of the better balanced playables right now

[limber hull]

this too, yes, it creates a massive weight gap between the 1-2 ton animals and then maia, a 3.8 ton animal

[normal shuttle]

And Maia is then not a real brawler

Absence of combat oriented herbivores until you reach theri/stego

Which is a significant gap that doesn’t have to be there, and dibble has always fulfilled its purpose very well being placed in that size range

When I was just a kid playing progression and the like I wasn’t too aware of balancing, but I cannot recall any time where dibble was overpowered or oppressive in the meta

It’s always been there as a nicely balanced, well rounded herbivore counterpart to allo

And honestly

Seeing legacy dibble just dunking on dilo megapacks at night will never not be funny to me even though I mained dilo before it became terrible

[limber hull]

yea basically

[normal shuttle]

dilo and deino are in dire need of a rework

Also now that you mentioned the herd animal thing I immediately remembered pachy

Whereas it seems that the creatures with the least value to a herd (dibble being an exception) are the most effective solo

Such as teno which works everywhere and has always worked everywhere

@west tiger one of the more important things to keep in mind when making balance suggestion is that realism has little to no say in the game

Also from a gameplay perspective, many deinos in one place seems fairly counterproductive since they don’t help hunting and have a food demand too high for an opportunistic ambusher

[obtuse wing]

I really don’t understand why people disagree with the Diabloceratops concept I presented. In the game, a full group should represent the peak of fun and functionality for a dinosaur, but what we see with the Diablo (6 adults) is a tedious gameplay experience where it can only be hunted by apex predators.... that’s terrible.

[normal shuttle]

?

Roster is not complete + how is it more tedious to have many ceratopsians in a group of 3t as opposed to many of half the weight

If you wanna run a group of brawlers, teno is right there too

Nerfing a playable just so it can be killed more easily when it already can be outplayed by creatures about half of its size just doesn’t sound like a good tactic

When it would also create an enormous gap where there is nothing a player can use in the 2-6 ton range if they want a good herbivore bruiser

[tall vine]

it can't be killed by anything smaller than it tho, unless it's like 3+ predators and even then

[obtuse wing]

This isn’t about a simple “nerf” it’s about a full redesign of the dinosaur in the game. Diabloceratops, just like Maiasaura, was always conceived as a herd animal.

Currently, in the game, four Diablos are unbeatable by anything other than one or two Rexes or Deinosuchus, and that’s simply terrible. Six Diablos together should represent the peak of the dinosaur’s fun and teamwork potential, but right now it’s just a giant tank with absurd health.

Increasing a dinosaur’s weight is the laziest way to make it viable.

[normal shuttle]

I am accounting for a normal run where ceras that are good can outplay bad dibbles, but same skill yeah cera groups are an issue

[tall vine]

but cera is just broken for it's weight u can't judge dibble being killed by a cera and say all stuff smaller than it can kill it

especially after this weight prime buff

[obtuse wing]

The concept "Fragile body, steel shield" works perfectly for the Diablo and would add immense value to coordinated teamwork

you would have to protect your companions’ backs, and they would defend yours, the formation we see in the concept would be something completely functional and interesting both to form and to try to break with fake attacks and provocations

[urban flax]

There is no such thing as a viable herd animal in this game

[obtuse wing]

And this opens the way for us to have the Styracosaurus, which would be a medium-sized ceratopsid for solo/duo/trio players

with more defensive options, sparring, longer growth time, and perhaps some extra function for the horns on its frill, etc.

[normal shuttle]

When was dibble ever conceived to be a herd animal? It has some value in a herd unlike stego, but it is meant to be perfectly functional solo, which is what ALL playables should strive for because grouping is not a consistent survival strategy. Balancing a playable around groups is ridiculous, because it is outside of your control. If I wanted to play a certain playable because it’s my main, but it only worked with groups of my own, then I would be doomed if I don’t come across anyone or all my randoms are bad or decide to betray or log out. All playables must be balanced around solo play and preferably 1v1 matchups (mostly within their weight class), period

Then, the assertion of what can kill it is wrong: big rex ambush, sub rex, competent allos especially in groups, cera groups, dilo ambush at night, stego, deino, trike, canni dibbles and even I’ve seen teno groups giving trouble to dibbles. There are so many things even in an incomplete roster that can give trouble or even be inescapable threats where you need to get out

And frankly dibble is not crutching on its health, it is mechanically a viable playable, but is kept there because nothing else can bridge that gap. It has knockdown, one of the best drifts, the shield head, bleed, respectable damage…All compensated by one of the worst early games in the entire game alongside trike and deino.

[normal shuttle]

Or you could simply not give the exact same sparring to yet another ceratopsian. Ava probably is not gonna have that, and people have given many good ideas for abilities for pachyrhino, so there is no real need for styra to have the same ability and nerf dibble because we gotta avoid redundancy

[obtuse wing]

The flaw in your argument is gross:

The Diablo I suggested is not defenseless alone, it is equivalent to Cerato and Carnotaurus.
It would be able to defend itself from Ceras and Carnos and other smaller animals
and it would run from Allosaurus and apex predators if it spotted them in time

Just like any other similarly sized animal would, like Kentro, Teno, etc.

[normal shuttle]

If dibble is very strong in groups right now, it is only because it is a viable solo animal (which is always a positive) taking advantage of numbers and also there isn’t much to hunt them right now, but that will naturally change as more playables get added, just like how many playables have had significant shifts in their presence without the need of changes as more playables got added and the meta had to account for those

[obtuse wing]

So it doesn't make sense for the game to have Baryonix, which is an underdeveloped Suchomimus.

[normal shuttle]

It makes perfect sense because it is fundamentally different in playstyle and then there is a huge gap between them

[obtuse wing]

ahhh

just as the Dibble would have a completely different gameplay from the Styraco.

[normal shuttle]

Bary is like 1.5-1.7 tons, whereas sucho is gonna have different mechanics in top of potentially being 5-6 tons

[obtuse wing]

dibble = 1.4T
Styra: 3T
Pachyrrino: 3.5T - 4T

The current Diablo is basically a car taking up two parking spaces, it's a terrible Diabloceratops and a terrible Styracosaurus

[normal shuttle]

We don’t know because styra might as well be scrapped or have different abilities, which is way better than simply taking away the niche it has always had in the history of the isle

But Bary has nothing to do with sucho, they are confirmed to have very, very different abilities

[normal shuttle]

Or you could instead keep dibble as it is, give other abilities to styraco so there is no overlap (and maybe a little larger too) and then other abilities for pachyrhino

Instead of copy pasting the same abilities and then pushing playables to lower positions

[obtuse wing]

In the end, it would be the same thing. Styra and Dibble would basically be synonyms, or if we removed the Styraco, we’d lose an incredible dinosaur that could have phenomenal gameplay, and we wouldn’t even have dynamic group gameplay like the Diablo.

[limber hull]

a herd animal is an inherently unviable animal, and additionally, the 3 ton animal is specifically in a state to allow it to be the only brawler in its weightclass

if changed to your proposed weight, not only is allo left without a proper herbivore rival, but there comes an oversaturation of brawler herbivores in the 1-2 ton range

[limber hull]

dibble can be 3 tons, styraco can be 5-6 tons, pachyrhino can be 7-8 tons, and all would still have their place in the game

[obtuse wing]

increasing the dinosaur’s weight is a lazy way to make it viable it would be the same as expecting the kentro to have 3 tons when it’s released instead of the developers giving it the tools it needs to survive

[obtuse wing]

Allosaurus isn’t even close to being a rival for the diablo it’s going to get nerfed and on a minimally regulated server 3 allos would never be able to do anything against 3 or more diablos

But with my version of the diablo there would be a phenomenal rivalry we’d see groups of allosaurs surrounding herds of 6 diablos and having an incredible battle with the diablos maintaining their defensive formation while the allosaurs try to break through it

[limber hull]

you could also do that with styraco

there is nothing stopping you from playing that way on anything but dibble

[obtuse wing]

Styraco is a dinosaur that is naturally much larger than Diabloceratops, and its gameplay would be nothing alike

[normal shuttle]

I already said that this assertion makes no sense

Dibble isn’t crutching on its weight

[normal shuttle]

It is an additive that further solidifies its current place, but it is good due to more than health

[obtuse wing]

yes it is

[normal shuttle]

You can also make them have completely different styles. Problem solved, dibble remains where it should

[obtuse wing]

nah

[normal shuttle]

So the drift, sparring, 75% damage reduction, knockdown, damage and bleed do not matter?

[normal shuttle]

What kind of justification is that?

[obtuse wing]

just like I said diabloceratops would be a fast-growing and teamwork-focused dinosaur
styracosaurus would have slower growth lower speed and its group size would be one to three individuals

[obtuse wing]

This only makes it even more huntable; it's like letting Kentrosaurus impale anything and then giving it 3T.

Six diablos would never be hunted by groups of allosaurus.
A full group should be the peak of dinosaur gameplay, just like 8 omniraptors, 4 dillos, etc.

The best context to introduce for the Diabloceratops is “Glass body, steel glory.”

Its body would be fragile, but its shield would save it from charged attacks by Carnotaurus and make it harder for the Dilophosaurus’ venom and the Ceratosaurus’ bacteria to take effect.

You and your friends would grow quickly with a perfect diet, in around 1 hour and 50 minutes, and engage in battles against groups of predators.

Hitting a fellow Diablo would be as punishing as an Omniraptor missing its grab and hitting another Omniraptor during a fight.
Group coordination would be essential and highly functional.

Fast growth;

Fragile body but powerful shield;

Defensive formations requiring real coordination;

Tactical combat instead of just being a damage tank.

The Diabloceratops represents the perfect balance between fragility and strategy. Its body is vulnerable, but its shield can withstand devastating blows and protect allies within defensive formations. It’s not built for brute strength, but for coordination and teamwork.

With fast growth and a social nature, the Diabloceratops thrives in herds. Alone, it’s agile and cautious; in groups, it becomes a living fortress. Its strength lies in synergy — protect your ally’s flank and trust that they will protect yours.

In battle, players will find a dynamic and tactical experience. Striking a teammate can be as punishing as an Omniraptor missing its grab and hitting another ally, demanding precision and discipline. This design rewards cooperation and turns every encounter into a display of coordination and resilience.

In short: fragile body, steel glory the true team-based ceratopsian.

And that doesn’t mean the Diabloceratops would be unviable on its own, it would have problems with groups of carnivores in the same way a lone Ceratosaurus does.

[obtuse wing]

The Diabloceratops would be the opposite of the Maiasaura. While the Maiasaura doesn’t cause bleeding and its damage is relatively weak, it has a great ability to absorb damage in its body but takes heavy damage from attacks to the head.
The Diabloceratops, on the other hand, would deal high damage and bleeding, have strong head protection, a faster sparring style, but wouldn’t be able to withstand many hits to its body

[normal shuttle]

Holy gish gallop

Lemme catch up reading all of this

[obtuse wing]

🤣

[normal shuttle]

I hope you acknowledge how hard it is to have 6 people within a group at a given time and that the game, as we told you more than once, does not account for grouping in balance. Solo viability is pretty much the only thing that matters. This is such a weird hangup to have with the six dobles. Should we also nerf trike e because 6 of them are literally unbeatable?

Dibble will likely never be encouraged to be a herd animal because devs just don’t want main herd animals to exist

And the game does not account for groups, so you should be discussing the balance of dibble solo before suggesting any rework

[obtuse wing]

Then they could reduce the ceratosaurus group to 3, and remove omniraptor, troodon, gallimimus, maiasaura, etc. from the game.

10 Maiasauras will have interesting gameplay in the game when it's more complete, 6 Dibbles will not.

A trio of styracosaurus could fiercely attack Albertosaurus and Suchomimus, and be very dangerous even for Apex.

[normal shuttle]

????

[limber hull]

sorry what, remove... a bunch of fan fave animals???

what would that achieve

[normal shuttle]

You do realize that those are still viable solo right?

[limber hull]

^

all of those animals are viable solo and only have groups as support

[normal shuttle]

He’s just misrepresenting the fact that creatures are not balanced around group

[limber hull]

they don't NEED a group, they just work well with one

[obtuse wing]

I think you've never played as a Dilophosaurus or Ceratosaurus and ended up facing 3 Carnotaurus.

[normal shuttle]

It is undeniable that many get benefits or great synergies in groups

But they are perfectly capable alone

[limber hull]

honestly, cera CAN survive that

dilo? yea thats not great

[obtuse wing]

Why can ceratosaurus live alone?

[limber hull]

yea

[normal shuttle]

I have, doesn’t mean the game should be balanced around me being able to deal with that because it would all be a mess

Game sense however can help you surviving that. Game sense is by far the best skill to hone in the isle. You can be really good mechanically but if you are not really aware of what is going on or anticipate any play, you end up in situations like that one

[limber hull]

quite well

[normal shuttle]

It’s probably one of the easiest to keep alive solo above 1 ton

[obtuse wing]

Exactly, that's how it is with Dibble; it shouldn't be able to handle multiple Ceratosaurus or Carnotaurus.

[normal shuttle]

Meanwhile you have playables like pachy which are only really viable in groups and they are a coinflip solo

[limber hull]

why??

it's designed around allo and alberto, not cera and carno

[obtuse wing]

Because it is a dinosaur equivalent to Ceratosaurus and Carnotarus, and not that much superior.

[normal shuttle]

Why not? How is it unhealthy for a tank bruiser herbivore to fight off carnos?

What you are suggesting would need not just a nerf to their weight, but also a lot of their kit

[limber hull]

also carno is meant to hunt things smaller than it (not diablo), and cera is meant to be a scavenger

[limber hull]

based on what metric

[normal shuttle]

Except that it is not now, never was (other than the old ceratorex era lol), and devs don’t want them to be on the same level ever

[obtuse wing]

I didn't just suggest a change in weight; just go upstairs and read my texts. It would be difficult for me to repeat them

[limber hull]

nothing else you suggested resolves the clear issue

[obtuse wing]

resolve

[normal shuttle]

What you are suggesting mainly is cutting its weight in half, making it somehow more fragile in the rear and sides (even though that would be hell with latency and the like), and then encouraging it to play in groups, which is baffling as we have said because no playable should be getting so much value from groups

[obtuse wing]

dibble gameplay:

[obtuse wing]

no.

[normal shuttle]

Why not? Maias will just keep running forever because all of its faster predator have already been added save for Utah (maybe) and perhaps Alberto

6 dibbles on the other hand still have alberto, maybe sucho in swamps or near the water, giga, carch (PLEASE) and all of the other aggro herbivores and omnivores. They have way more to engage with that a slab of meat that zooms around at the speed of light

[normal shuttle]

Why does it feel like you are simply not reading anything of what we are telling you? We’re telling you that no playable is balanced around groups. You should not be encouraging groups.

And I just remembered that teno and most likely kentro hold their own against cera, why wouldn’t dibble if shrunk? Sounds absolutely abysmal

[obtuse wing]

Sucho and Alberto should be rivals to the Styraco, but for the Diablo they should be its greatest nightmare.

[normal shuttle]

ChatGPT?

Whatever…

And no, that response does not address what I just told you. Dibble would still have trouble with things as the roster expands, and I already said why that hangup of six dibbles is dumb

You’re basically never going to have that many

[obtuse wing]

I can’t write in English, it’s a better translation option than Google.

[obtuse wing]

we won’t have it because its group gameplay is tedious and easy, and it takes ages to grow

[normal shuttle]

And they also have to eat and compete with other herbivores because this game isn’t just carnivore vs herbivore battle arena.

[obtuse wing]

so should we expect a 3-ton Kentrosaurus to be viable and playable?

[normal shuttle]

We won’t have it because that many people consistently playing together by chance the same playable in the same place without getting slaughtered by one another or things dibble can’t fight is astronomically rare

Not dibble’s fault for being in a good spot

You also don’t see 5-6 tenos running around normally

Or 5-6 of anything other than very short growth, fan favorites like troodon

[obtuse wing]

So why do I always find groups of omniraptors, troodons, and 5 ceras?

[normal shuttle]

Because they are popular picks

Popularity has no correlation with balance necessarily, and you can see this in any game like mobas, coop games where you pick your characters or hero shooters

Sometimes they can be good because they are also preferred by the devs or they acknowledge the fanbase

But there are so many outliers with a high success rate which are not top picks

It’s a nuanced thing

[obtuse wing]

Please understand my fundamental point:

Weight is not the only way to make a creature viable.

[normal shuttle]

And please understand what I said at least 5 times already:

dibble by design does not crutch on its weight. It is in fact other abilities what make it good

[obtuse wing]

A diabloceratops growing at the growth rate of a dilophosaurus would be much more attractive than the current one, which takes about 3 hours.

[normal shuttle]

And you did not answer how teno can deal with cera but somehow dibble shouldn’t unless in a group

Or CARNOS

[normal shuttle]

If you want less growth on a herbivore brawler just play teno or kentro

[obtuse wing]

The fact that 3 Diablos massacred 3 Allosaurus contradicts your point.

[normal shuttle]

Or even Ava if you want a ceratopsian

[limber hull]

i dont see what's fundamentally wrong with that

[normal shuttle]

It doesn’t contradict any point. Dibble is good thanks to its surprising agility, the damage reduction on the head and more importantly its knockdown

The fact dibble can force its own openings is by far its best trait, as it allows it to make constantly positive trades with any opponent that gets staggered or tossed around

You could make dibble take double damage and nothing would change

They would still win

[limber hull]

the funniest part about this is diablo ALREADY is a herd animal by your standards

[obtuse wing]

Dibble could have all of that and have a more functional sparring partner and less weight.

It's the same as me saying that Omniraptor isn't solely based on its weight because it has its attacks and qualities, while I leave it with the weight of a Ceratosaurus

[limber hull]

the only issue i see you having is not the fact that it isn't a herd animal, but it not being doomed solo against midtiers

[obtuse wing]

No, as I said, it would have a more agile sparring partner, the head protection would be even greater, the damage and bleeding it causes wouldn't be reduced, nor would its ability to knock creatures to the ground.

So no, this dibble isn't useless on its own, it survives, within limits;

But its rapid growth favors it forming a large herd from nests, etc.

One dibble shouldn't withstand three carnos or four ceras

[limber hull]

if you reduce its weight, you also reduce its stun and ability to knock creatures to the ground

[obtuse wing]

no.

[limber hull]

also, why shouldn't diablo be able to withstand a small game hunter or a scavenger

[obtuse wing]

I never said that.

[limber hull]

yes, that is quite literally how it works

knockdowns and stuns scale with animal weight

[obtuse wing]

Stupidly enough, Dibble is a compact, quadrupedal ceratopsian with far more stability than a Ceratosaurus.

[limber hull]

idk what that has to do with anything

[obtuse wing]

Therefore, the weight reduction that would occur in this reimagining would not affect the damage output of the Diabloceratops, nor its ability to knock dinosaurs to the ground

[limber hull]

it would, because that's how the game works

less weight = less knockdown/stun

[normal shuttle]

Yep

[obtuse wing]

If the game only considers weight for an animal to be able to throw another to the ground, then it did a poor job.

[normal shuttle]

Unless you want to do special pleading with it and give it some bonus, you would be making dibble maybe unable to knock cera to the ground with the stability of the charged bite

So…another good matchup for a dinosaur that is already in need of adjustments and nerfs

[normal shuttle]

Why?

[obtuse wing]

At no point am I arguing that the dibble wouldn't be capable of stunning or knocking down any dinosaur; on the contrary, it should remain as it is.

[normal shuttle]

It works fine

Small thing gets pushed by big thing

[normal shuttle]

You would be compromising it’s cc by making it half of its current size

[obtuse wing]

Weight isn't everything; to take down another creature, you also need to consider other factors, such as impact speed and stability. A dibble can hit a ceratosaurus with more stability and throw it to the ground.

Diabloceratops is a compact quadruped. Ceratosaurus is a long, slender biped.

[normal shuttle]

So we should change how stuns and knockdowns work in this game so that dibble gets pushed into a niche that is already overcrowded?

[normal shuttle]

slender?

[obtuse wing]

damn translator

[normal shuttle]

Cera is just mini rex

[obtuse wing]

thin

[normal shuttle]

It’s meant to be bulky and durable

Not thin either

[obtuse wing]

nah, It's stupid for an animal to only consider weight when taking down animals; otherwise, we wouldn't have a game where two omniraptors can take down a ceratosaurus that is injured or has low stamina.

Similarly, the game should consider stability parameters to allow a diabloceratops to take down animals it's supposed to take down.

[normal shuttle]

Currently, it is taking down things that it should be taking down, so not a big deal

[obtuse wing]

A Carnotaurus could effectively inflict a charge attack on its body, but if it were head-to-head, the Carnotaurus would have serious problems.

[normal shuttle]

Don’t do that

With latency would that would be mega cringe for the carno

Because it may aim for the side and get hurt in the process

It’s better to leave it as it is where dibble is out of the menu almost always

[obtuse wing]

So, are we going to abandon the dinosaurs and their tools because of latency?

[obtuse wing]

the worst gameplay in the game

[normal shuttle]

Assertion that needs backup

[obtuse wing]

Even Stegos walking in groups of 5 will have much more fun gameplay than 6 Diabloceratops, as they will have to fight the Apex fiercely.

Diabloceratops will just run from Apex and be ignored by the mid-tier.

[normal shuttle]

How is dibble the worst? And now to make sure we don’t go in circles again like we have for over an hour, account for solo gameplay instead of repeating the

I didn’t even finish my response and you already did it

[obtuse wing]

Three diabloceratops with a brain are immortal.

[normal shuttle]

Define “with a brain”. There’s so much nuance there

And…still they aren’t immortal

You have so many things that can kill them

[normal shuttle]

And that last line is factually wrong even now

3 ton dibbles are being hunted by sub rexes and adult/elder ceras, as well as some especially bold dilos

Guess why

Because you are way more likely to win the lottery than to stumble upon a group of 5-6 adult dibbles twice in a row

And even then finding such a group on the first place is extraordinarily rare

[obtuse wing]

The game says that diabloceratops should walk in groups of 6.
Now prove to me that 6 diabloceratops have a healthy and functional role in the island's environment

[normal shuttle]

In my 700 hours of evrima, most of them in gateway, I have only ever found a large group and it was 4 adults and one sub

[obtuse wing]

bro

Rex subs should be a rival/enemy to the Styraco, and for the Diablo, a well-developed Rex sub should be a nightmare.

Diabloceratops is literally my favorite herbivore, and it has the worst gameplay in the game.

[normal shuttle]

It is already a nightmare

One crush, one leg break and the dibble is done

[normal shuttle]

I will repeat again because you keep repeating the same tired point

Do you have any criticism to raise against solo dibble gameplay?

[limber hull]

carno shouldnt be hunting dibble at all tbh, idk why you're obsessed with this matchup

you have this mental image of what it "should" be hunted by, even though there's no real reason for it

besides "it's how it should be"

a diablo as it stands can easily be hunted and killed by rex, even in a herd, and there's not much of anything it can do about it

[normal shuttle]

And let’s not forget, considering all I’ve gathered:

teno being able to fight cera 1v1 while being faster both in land, water and trotting ✅

dibble being able to fight cera 1v1 while being faster (????) running but not trotting or in the water ❌ ❌ ❌

[limber hull]

especially with diablo's low damage output, there's no way for the other diablos to get the rex to retreat at all

[obtuse wing]

Yes, in its concept art it's made clear that it would be a herd animal.

And a herd of that dinosaur simply doesn't work; it's the same as me creating a concept of a Herrerasaurus climbing and it not doing that in the game.
The "mid-tier ceratopsian, solo gameplay" niche would be much better executed with Styracosaurus, which could compensate for slower growth, sparring, and speed with more options for defending itself using its main horn and those on its crown.

[obtuse wing]

????????????????????

[normal shuttle]

Oh you don’t want teno to fight cera either?

[obtuse wing]

Where, where did I say that Diabloceratops wouldn't be able to beat Ceratosaurus in a 1v1?

[obtuse wing]

.

[limber hull]

if all "herd animal" means to you is that it just dies without a herd, then why would i not just herd up as styraco

because styraco is good alone AND it can make a shield wall like diablo AND it's strong against allo and alberto AND it's just overall better

[normal shuttle]

Oh sorry you meant many

Still wild that you want it to be teno level

[obtuse wing]

Why would I not make a group of Suchomimus that is stronger than a Baryonyx?

[limber hull]

because sucho and bary are entirely different

[obtuse wing]

ahhh

dibble and styra too

[limber hull]

not really

if the only difference is "herd and no herd", then it's a suggestion

and i can choose to ignore that suggestion and herd anyway as the no herd animal

[normal shuttle]

If your only suggestion to make them different is size, then not really

[limber hull]

yup

[normal shuttle]

Bary and sucho explicitly are going to have different abilities

[obtuse wing]

no

[normal shuttle]

What you are suggesting is YET ANOTHER ceratopsian with sparring, when you could do much more, like maybe a charger

[obtuse wing]

which?

[normal shuttle]

Although a charge for pachyrhino would be better

[limber hull]

sucho is a shallow-wading brawler with slow movement but high power

bary is a depths-diving, nimble and speedy creature that often dips between land and deep waters

they have different environments, playstyles and goals

[normal shuttle]

Bary: good in water, potentially capable of coving, defensive stance and maybe some good counter to pouncers

Sucho: mostly a walker/wader that does not like swimming, with a large pouch that allows it to swallow very large prey or carry multiple of them at once

They are fundamentally distinct

Sucho is more terrestrial than even cera 💔

[obtuse wing]

Diablo: Good in groups, fast growth, fastest ceratopsian.

Styraco: Solo/duo/trio, slow growth, slow, multiple ways to use all its horns.

diabloceratops: leaving the nest and becoming an adult in 2 hours with a perfect diet >>>>>>>>>>>>> current diablo, weak alone, terrible in groups, slow growth.

[limber hull]

how is current diablo terrible in groups

[indigo gulch]

I don’t see how. You can cover each other’s flanks and move as a unit

[obtuse wing]

because he is invincible

[limber hull]

so... it's good in groups lol

[icy lion]

How would that make it bad in groups

[limber hull]

also i still don't believe it to be invincible in groups

rex now exists as a constant looming threat of instant, violent death

[obtuse wing]

Are you trying to convince me that 2 or 3 Albertosaurus with 3 tons of T will stand a chance against 3 or 4 Diabloceratops? They will be equally massacred.

[obtuse wing]

REX? Is an apex your argument?

[wintry cipher]

How the heck are we back on this convo werent yall arguing about this last week >.> also current diablo has some of the highest skill expression imo. It turns well, is decently tanky, and is pretty fast for its size, not to mention the knockdown that can stagger a stego, high thrash damage, and solid bleed.

Teno and diablo are both fine in groups because if you get bad ones they start friendly firing like crazy and do the work for you. Teno also vomits extremely quickly from cerato, and its tail slam doesnt work on it if its charge biting, so its extremely skill based in fights for those two.

[icy lion]

So this is just an attempt to preemptively nerf diablo?

[limber hull]

effectively, yes

he wants a "herd creature"

and he wants styraco to be what diablo currently is

not realising that all this would do is move all the current diablo players to styraco

[wintry cipher]

Is styraco even confirmed?

[limber hull]

and kill the diablo playerbase

[icy lion]

I think it's iffy atm

[limber hull]

styraco is in a grey area atm yea

[icy lion]

There's an old model and nothing else

[wintry cipher]

I would argue pachyrhino has a much more distinct niche than styraco in this game ngl

[limber hull]

absolutely agreed

imho pachyrhino is a must-add

one of the most unique ceratopsians

[obtuse wing]

If you're interested in the discussion, go back and read the previous arguments. What I want isn't a simple "nerf" to Diabloceratops, but rather to redefine its role in the ecosystem.

[limber hull]

except all you've done is nerf its weight and increase its growth speed

[urban flax]

What is even your suggestion, apart from nerfing its weight ?

[limber hull]

which is overall, a nerf

[obtuse wing]

no.

[limber hull]

yes, it is

faster growth is hardly worth the loss of half its weight

[normal shuttle]

And let’s not forget “weak alone”

Apparently it is weak alone if it can fight almost anything and evade its biggest threats, and then it being untouchable in impossibly large groups is bad

[limber hull]

except styraco could do the exact same thing diablo does right now

so all it's doing is moving the problem and leaving diablo abandoned

you can tell me that it's a solo or duo animal, but the playerbase does not care, at all

[obtuse wing]

The concept "Fragile body, steel shield" works perfectly for the Diablo and would add immense value to coordinated teamwork

you would have to protect your companions’ backs, and they would defend yours, the formation we see in the concept would be something completely functional and interesting both to form and to try to break with fake attacks and provocations

The best context to introduce for the Diabloceratops is “Glass body, steel glory.”

Its body would be fragile, but its shield would save it from charged attacks by Carnotaurus and make it harder for the Dilophosaurus’ venom and the Ceratosaurus’ bacteria to take effect.

You and your friends would grow quickly with a perfect diet, in around 1 hour and 50 minutes, and engage in battles against groups of predators.

Hitting a fellow Diablo would be as punishing as an Omniraptor missing its grab and hitting another Omniraptor during a fight.
Group coordination would be essential and highly functional.

Fast growth;

Fragile body but powerful shield;

Defensive formations requiring real coordination;

Tactical combat instead of just being a damage tank.

he Diabloceratops represents the perfect balance between fragility and strategy. Its body is vulnerable, but its shield can withstand devastating blows and protect allies within defensive formations. It’s not built for brute strength, but for coordination and teamwork.

With fast growth and a social nature, the Diabloceratops thrives in herds. Alone, it’s agile and cautious; in groups, it becomes a living fortress. Its strength lies in synergy — protect your ally’s flank and trust that they will protect yours.

In battle, players will find a dynamic and tactical experience. Striking a teammate can be as punishing as an Omniraptor missing its grab and hitting another ally, demanding precision and discipline. This design rewards cooperation and turns every encounter into a display of coordination and resilience.

In short: fragile body, steel glory the true team-based ceratopsian.
And that doesn’t mean the Diabloceratops would be unviable on its own, it would have problems with groups of carnivores in the same way a lone Ceratosaurus does.

[normal shuttle]

What does steel glory even mean

don’t mind the comment

[limber hull]

literally i dont see what about this is a rework, this is literally a nerf

[wintry cipher]

Diablo has a perfectly good spot in the ecosystem rn as is, and id argue it would be better to give players something new and exciting for styraco rather than objectively harming diablos playerbase for no reason other than personal preference/"I want styraco in this niche"

[urban flax]

I've read the suggestion already
That's just a weight nerf

[limber hull]

yup

its a nerf with spice lol

a nerf nonetheless, but at least it's got some nice wordage to it

[wintry cipher]

Also those are albertos and much bigger so size wise Diablo looks pretty accurate

[urban flax]

You can use as much ChatGPT purple prose as you want, it's nothing but a weight nerf

[icy lion]

I'm sorry but I'm not exactly sure what the suggestion is here

[normal shuttle]

Out of all playables to have ever existed in both evrima and legacy, dibble is probably the worst you can pick to change drastically with how stable it has been

[obtuse wing]

NO

[obtuse wing]

you literally ignore all my arguments, there are many ways for the Diabloceratops to be completely different, yet you insist on the redundancy that it needs to survive against mid-tier groups while alone, so should we expect the Kentrosaurus to weigh 3 tons instead of adjusting its mechanics so it fulfills its role properly?

[limber hull]

if the kentro did weigh 3 tons, what would it matter?

[icy lion]

What of diablo's mechanics are we adjusting?

[limber hull]

if the kentro was balanced around that weight stat, that's perfectly fine

[normal shuttle]

If there are many ways, why are you so hung up on reducing its weight to make it different from styraco WHICH you want to give sparring to as well?

[wintry cipher]

Diablo and teno are both very solid playables solo for their own reasons, so id be very heasitant to change either beyond very mild buffs to keep up with changes/power creep in the game imo. But atm theyre adjusting model weights so we will see what happens to that first imo

[obtuse wing]

Obviously, it would either just be another invincible herb or terribly weakened in its mechanics, and the work was done slowly. If this dinosaur was going to be like this, it could have been in the game years ago.

[limber hull]

if anything, diablo is really NOT good as of the HT, so this is a rather unprecedented nerf

it's hardly invincible

rex and allo are currently just melting it

[normal shuttle]

This is such a bad analogy

How do dibble mechanics?

You still haven’t answered that question, and said nothing for its solo performance.

[icy lion]

Yea honestly with how the weights are being shaken around it's hard to make any calls on current balancing (HT wise)

[limber hull]

also if a midtier group of allos or albertos find dibble, it's probably dead, why would i advocate otherwise

[obtuse wing]

1 - Much faster growth
2 - Moderately slower speed than the Ceratosaurus
3 - More agile and faster sparring
4 - Same ability to knock dinosaurs to the ground, same damage and bleed as it currently inflicts
5 - Requires many Ceratosaurus bites to the head for the bacteria to affect the Diabloceratops
6 - Requires many Dilophosaurus bites to the head to poison the Diabloceratops
7 -If a Carnotaurus uses a running charge and collides head-to-head, it will be knocked to the ground

[limber hull]

genuinely half of those mechanics are already in the game

[icy lion]

Yea pretty much

It's a speed boost while sparring (it's already pretty fast tbh) and a weight nerf

[obtuse wing]

The difference is that, if the diabloceratops' defense fails, it hardly matters; its absurd weight protects it from its mistake.

[icy lion]

And I'm not against having a small diablo, I was hoping it would be ~teno sized, but atp it's just unecessary and would probably tank diablo

[obtuse wing]

No, because the Diabloceratops I'm defending would be very focused on defense; a Teno wouldn't stand much of a chance against it.

Diabloceratops would have a solid defense, but it couldn't afford to miss, just like an Omniraptor can't miss its dodge.

[icy lion]

What's that defense? Better damage reduction on the blocking move? You haven't explained

[obtuse wing]

Ideally:

Diablo has a glass body, but a shield and a sword.

If you avoid the shield and sword, you will effectively injure him.

The group of Diabloceratops would be fun to play because each Diabloceratops would defend the body of its friend, thus requiring a literal war formation for group defense, which would be a really fun and functional progression.

like this

[icy lion]

I'm sorry but I'm still not sure what the suggestion is, diablo is already like this

[wintry cipher]

To address the suggestion in full:

• a glass canon/shield ceratopsian does not work, but ill continue

• diablo is already incentivised to defend its back because head hits while blocking reduce damage immensly

• "have to" > this implies that if you dont have a herd to defend you, you will just die. The formation in the image is already functional and notably immobile, so a diablo cant chase a predator down if they do this (balanced!)

• extremely vague phrasing with the glass cannon/shield idea again

• again it is already incentivised to guard its back as it is atm. This would not change gameplay

• resistance to venom and bacteria would be better placed as muts imo. This is the first unique idea here though but im not sure ic its already in effect because bile and venom might be tied to damage as is

• so youre expecting this to be a shield wall dino and yet also deliberately look for and fight groups of predators? Pick one

This would require a "grab" mechanic to automatically register on any diablo head hit and be extremely broken against more than just other diablos

• forcing any playable, herbivore or carnivore, to have to survive in groups is simply going to drive the playable extinct. You can already gain the "tactical experience" in groups with diablo as is.

This is why it is just a weight nerf.

[obtuse wing]

Dude, the damage that one or two bites from a Ceratosaurus does to a Diablo's body is ridiculous and completely negates the need for head protection.

[icy lion]

Given that cera isn't meant to even consider diablo as a target, yes

[wintry cipher]

Diablo is a mid tier herbivore. Not cerato prey

[obtuse wing]

not necessarily

[normal shuttle]

Also I think we already have enough defensive herbivores in that range with kentro and teno

Whereas we have literally no brawler herbivore at 2+ tons until theri/stego

Herbivore mid tiers are mad restricted

[obtuse wing]

Diabloceratops will not be hunted by any mid-tier if they are in equal numbers.

[wintry cipher]

And they shouldnt be if theyre smart and turtle up

[obtuse wing]

It's not a nerf because the weight is reduced, but numerous other things compensate for it; a nerf simply removes something.

To call my idea "just a nerf" is very dishonest.

[wintry cipher]

Avaceratops would be better placed as this "small tier" ceratopsian and will have a unique omnivore niche to it. Diablo would be far less interesting and crowd ava's bracket

[urban flax]

The only thing compensating for it is faster growth

[normal shuttle]

Brother

It is already being hunted by ceras

What makes you think Alberto or Allo won’t take on them if they have a chance

Acro, rex, giga, potentially catch and even sucho could also get some pretty nice protein from a dibble if they catch it

[urban flax]

Which doesn't really compensate for much

[obtuse wing]

no

[wintry cipher]

Pachy grows fast. You dont see pachies much on evrima rn tho

[normal shuttle]

-50% hp and half of its cc

But don’t worry! Your atrocious early game will last 30% less time!

[normal shuttle]

True

Pachy just sucks now

[urban flax]

yes

[normal shuttle]

And I don’t want dibble to be like that, forced to rely on groups

[wintry cipher]

No animal should. You get backstabbed constantly as it is

[obtuse wing]

Because its durability is ridiculous, its attacks make it very slow, and it's very slow both running and walking.

It doesn't cause bleeding, its growth isn't fast enough, and its stamina is ridiculous.

[normal shuttle]

The stamina of pachy is fine

Problem is how it can barely use its ability to defend itself and using it on targets you can’t knock over usually means death or losing a trade

[obtuse wing]

Okay, I've already justified myself a lot, now it's your turn. Why is turning a Diabloceratops into a 3-ton beast necessary and the only way to make it viable?

[wintry cipher]

The Devs decided they liked it at that size and these are not real animals meant to be accurate and it is balanced for its size.

[obtuse wing]

That didn't answer my question at all; anything can be said to be the devs' wish, and the feedback chat would be useless.

Why is turning a Diabloceratops into a 3-ton beast necessary and the only way to make it viable?

[wintry cipher]

Im not against adding styraco. But youd have a far better time of it arguing to what would make styraco worth it to add instead of trying to objectively harm another playable just for styraco to replace it.

[obtuse wing]

No, I've already explained myself, it's your turn to answer me, be fair.

[wintry cipher]

That means styraco objectively has nothing new to add to the game

I gave you far more than the others did and made a comprehensive list in response to your suggestion when you were frustrated no one was acknowledging it. I am being more than fair and honest.

[woven bane]

@summer olive

[obtuse wing]

Why not answer the question directly? I've done that several times.

[normal shuttle]

Never said it’s the only way, but it is a good way

The devs want dibble to be the medium sized, agile brawler that it is now, bridging the huge size gap present in not just combat oriented herbivores, but all herbivores as a whole because I cannot think of a single one in between 2 and 4 tons (rounding up Maia to 4). And it is perfectly viable right now and has been for literal years ever since it was part of the game. It can fight things it cannot outrun (and in a way that good players can outplay larger groups of these creatures), and then flee from those that would obliterate it right on the spot with no effort

It is not the only way, but it is appreciated for the sake of variety and fulfilling a niche that no other playable does, whereas you already have multiple sub 2 ton brawler herbivores to pick and play with. Styra and Pachyrhino are in the grey area, or at the very least not coming anytime soon, so it’s pointless to accommodate anything for them now

[wintry cipher]

That and diablo set the very foundations for the sparring system we have today in trike and eventually ava and proto and possibly others.

With kentro coming in we might see "retribution" damage enter the game, which, if i recall correctly, styraco has spikes on its frill no? Perhaps it could be made into a defensive bleeder ceratopsian and utilize its block to not only protect itself but punish predators that attack it head on.

[obtuse wing]

No, it's the laziest way possible: to increase the weight.

The Diablo never needed to weigh 3 tons to be viable on its own; it's like adding more weight to a Herrerasaurus to make it viable instead of giving it the climbing ability promised in the concept art.

Diabloceratops was always meant to be a dinosaur of equivalent size to Cera/Carno, and no, 6 Diablos (an idealized number, therefore the ideal group for this dinosaur) is literally ignored by the entire fauna, leaving these Diabloceratops only to look for targets to provoke.

[limber hull]

"Diabloceratops was always meant to be a dinosaur of equivalent size to Cera/Carno"

clearly not, because it isn't

you're basing this on nothing but how you see it

[obtuse wing]

https://youtu.be/-OzCCQISKtQ?si=O5C80KJZ6sxlBqQf

[limber hull]

this genuinely does not mean anything

reminder, beipi is vastly undersized in this game

there are compromises made for game balance

or specific roles in the ecosystem

[obtuse wing]

Yes, that's what the current weight of the dinosaur means in an "early access" game.

[wintry cipher]

Im just going to point out you are playing a game with mutated monsters that have human minds canonically trapped in them. Teno is also heavilly oversized. At this point this argument just looks to be a masked "this dino is not realistic nerf it"

[limber hull]

what does early access have to do with it

[obtuse wing]

which was not planned to be the case for diabloceratops

[wintry cipher]

And theres tons of strawman arguments being used

[limber hull]

yes it was, the devs explicitly said it was raised in weight to better fit in the ecosystem

[wintry cipher]

If you know what was planned prove you are in the dev discord and or channels. Because claiming that is disingenuous

[obtuse wing]

No, the developers simply didn't want to spend more time on Diabloceratops and opted for the easier solution of "increase the weight," and you believed their excuse.

[limber hull]

no?

the diablo you want was literally the original diablo in the first HT release

[wintry cipher]

Concepts. They are never set in stone. We dont have diablo able to roll over when pounced for example.

[limber hull]

it was too weak, it got buffed to better befit the ecosystem

[normal shuttle]

The fact that you keep regurgitating the same AI generated argument even though we have went over it multiple times is strongly discouraging me from engaging any further. I already said multiple times how weight isn’t the crux of its kit, but rather the shove alongside the damage and how it can win any trade thanks to that, which is precisely what it should be doing as a ceratopsian. Repeat the weight thing again and I will walk away from this.

Dibble got exactly what it was said to have with its strong frontal power and the ability to fight things that are visually much larger than itself, even though the concept does indeed portray it as somewhat smaller than initially planned, because the concept art is from years before it released, and in a time where the 3 ton dibble of legacy worked perfectly and thus was extrapolated due to being one of the top survival picks in the herbivore playerbase. Easily the best and most fun herbivore in legacy by a long shot, and therefore the devs made the decision to make it very similar but with new unique abilities in evrima

It was never meant to be any equivalent to cera or carno, because not only we have more herbivores for that, because evidently it is in a place where the devs want it to be: that being something carnos shouldn’t be messing with and even overpowered ceras have to use more than a quarter of their brain to take down.

The 6 diablo thing is also a very tiring hung up because you have been told many times already that the game does NOT take groups into account when making balance changes, so nerfing it so a group of 6 dibbles is killable is nothing short of defunct, and frankly it is so arbitrary that I could do the same with any playable.

“Look, 5 trikes are unkillable, let’s make them 6 tons each so elder rex pairs can fight and maybe win the 2v5, more thrilling and also making the life of all those trikes depend on their randoms as opposed to their individual skill!” This logic just doesn’t follow

[limber hull]

i'm going to introduce you to the horrifying and painful world of "plans changing in game dev"

[obtuse wing]

At no point did I suggest that The Isle absolutely has to consider real dinosaurs.

[normal shuttle]

Tbf it did get a size increase but that was due to horrid performance

[obtuse wing]

None of my arguments are generated by AI; I write every single letter, the AI ​​only translates them.

[normal shuttle]

And further solidifying the trend that all carnivores releasing on HT are overpowered

Whereas the same cannot be said to herbivores

[limber hull]

yea imma be real the fact that you have a problem with diablo but not trike which can do the exact same thing is BIZARRE

trike can do it BETTER than diablo

[limber hull]

no one is questioning that you're using a translator lol

[obtuse wing]

I wrote each argument completely; the AI ​​just translates it, but I can already see that I won't have an HONEST debate on the topic here.

[obtuse wing]

@limber hull no?

[normal shuttle]

It’s so bad of a justification

If the problem is that ABSURDLY LARGE groups (because tell me how many times have you seen more than 5 adult dibbles together outside of the HT) are unkillable, then the same logic should apply to everyone to be nerfed and shrunk

Look, 8 shants are unkillable even for some strains, therefore make them weigh 8 tons instead of LAZILY making them weigh 18

[obtuse wing]

He accused me of using AI arguments.

[normal shuttle]

Ok I concede on that. I’m sorry

But now engage with the rest and do not repeat the same point that has been addressed

Because this is a discussion channel. It has to be a two way communication

And I get the impression that I am the only one hearing the other when you are repeating the same refuted point multiple times

[obtuse wing]

Shants is clearly designed, based on concept art, to be a more solitary creature, precisely because of its strength and growth time.

We don't see groups of Diablos because their growth is absurdly slow and their group gameplay simply isn't satisfying.

[wintry cipher]

Im wondering at this point if the translator is losing some of the nuance

[normal shuttle]

“Oh look, 4 spinosaurus in a pond are impossible to kill and they claim the whole body of water for themselves! We should just shrink spinos and make them easier to kill individually”

[wintry cipher]

So is the issue that you personally dislike growing diablo because you feel it takes too long?

[normal shuttle]

We don’t know how will shant play out, but people will do whatever they want with them even if they bring little value to a herd

And no, diablo doesn’t grow at an absurdly low pace. It grows like something that is capable of fending off an allo because the developers of the game want it to be that way

[normal shuttle]

That and/or that dibble megapacks are too hard to kill

As if that did not impact every playable to ever exist besides tiny tiers

[limber hull]

i genuinely think this entire argument is treating concept art as bible

this is not the case, things change

[obtuse wing]

Apologies accepted,
But:
No, you defend the Diablo’s current weight because you believe that without it, the Diablo wouldn’t be viable on its own, even though I’ve brought up numerous considerations.

You refuse to accept that the animal isn’t entirely dependent on its weight to be viable, and you keep forcing me to repeat my previous argument.

If we don’t want to complicate the debate, we should first establish points we all agree on and truly understand each other’s perspective.

[normal shuttle]

Especially when that concept was released years before gateway and dibble

[limber hull]

^

[normal shuttle]

If memory serves me correctly

[wintry cipher]

Like, in the donblog he pointed out that things change or dont go to plan but they will test them to be sure (looking at speed muts)

[normal shuttle]

Carno also changed a lot yet no one has a problem with it

Because it still works perfectly

[limber hull]

(some people have a problem with it)

[wintry cipher]

The main questions i look at with playables is this:

• can it flee what it cant fight?
• can it fight what it cant flee?

Is diablo able to chase anything down that cant murder it atm? Because i cant think of any atm beyond juveniles

[normal shuttle]

True

They didn’t move on from Disney carnotaurus knocking over tenos and fighting sub stegos 💔

[limber hull]

the triangle of balance

• can it flee what it can't fight?
• can it fight what it can't flee?
• if none of the above, does it have some other gimmick to not instantly explode?

[normal shuttle]

Maybe stego

[normal shuttle]

The triad any feedback poster should know before making balance or playable suggestions

[limber hull]

herrera:

• cannot fight carno
• cannot flee carno
• but look it can climb and dive yippee

[normal shuttle]

Is it unpopular to say 3 ton dibble in legacy was the best herbivore in the game? I know it’s been so long since then but I was just thinking about dibble history and it feels so oddly consistent in terms of performance

[normal shuttle]

Beipi can swim away from anyone too

Or simply jump around and run away from deino

And that makes me wonder whether austro will be able to consistently use swimming as an alternative to escape stuff like carno or omni

Since I’m assuming the big claw, webbed feet raptor won’t be as fast or agile as them

[obtuse wing]

et’s start over:
I’ll highlight points that no one here should disagree with, if anyone does, please say so.

1 - Adjusting weight is not the only way to balance a creature.

2 - The Isle is not a game focused on scientific/paleontological realism, it has its own kind of realism.

3 - Every dinosaur should have ways to survive (within limits) when living alone.

4 - Even if a dinosaur can manage on its own, it’s undeniable that its full group represents its true potential, and that the group should be stronger, but not invincible.

5 - Every dinosaur in the game will inevitably have its natural nemeses. A Dilo or Cerato can survive alone, but they’ll have serious problems if spotted by a group of Carnotaurus.
Balancing a Cerato or Dilo so they could take on three Carnotaurus alone would be madness.

Anyone disagree?

[limber hull]

"Adjusting weight is not the only way to balance a creature"

Entire suggestion pertains to adjusting the weight to balance a creature

[obtuse wing]

Okay, I saw a lack of honesty and a lack of commitment to any kind of animosity, don't waste my time trying to explain my point, have a good day.

[indigo notch]

Skill issue

[round sail]

Thanks💀

[indigo notch]

Twin every sanctuary is reachable with deino

I never dehydrate

[round sail]

Could you even see what I texted?

[indigo notch]

Yeah you said it’s impossible to reach sanctuary if you spawn north lake which ain’t true

[round sail]

Or did it just send the feedback someone wrote?

[round sail]

That wasn’t me lmao, I tried to respond to that feedback

[obtuse wing]

Deinosuchus has absolutely no reason to go to a sanctuary.

[indigo notch]

Oh

[indigo notch]

He does. Prime requirement

[obtuse wing]

This request makes no sense.

[indigo notch]

Yeah I’d like for the devs to make an aquatic sanctuary Ngl

[normal shuttle]

Deino just sucks

[indigo notch]

Hopefully before spino comes out

[normal shuttle]

I invoke my rework ideas

[round sail]

BRUH HAHAH
That was what I texted😂 as a respond to the feedback

[indigo notch]

I couldn’t see it

[round sail]

Gimme a sec I will try write it again

But if they made a semiaquatic sanctuary with tall plants and small creeks and streams. The plants could be like either elephant grass, elephantear plants (alocasia, I think they be called?). Anyways they will serve as hiding spots under the huge leafs. Make adults able to still go through the sanctuary, but with “bad” visibility. And have a better spawn of fish, frogs and insects. And then add some mangroves too. Idk could be fun ig

[limber hull]

#general-feedback message

please no

[obtuse wing]

😂

[limber hull]

@limpid bear i really, really dislike the idea of making bary and austro faster than deino

to me, that's a really boring copout

both animals have very good land speed

i would like deino, the only animal that is effectively a pure aquatic, to be powerful in its aquatic environment

[limpid bear]

i hate deino .

so thats my reasoning

[indigo gulch]

I’m a simple person, I see “here come X group to dislike”, I dislike

[limpid bear]

i dont jk its just that i like bary and austro more

[indigo gulch]

That mindset is so blind it’s not even funny anymore

[limber hull]

okay but i would rather them be more fun and i think being at risk of deino would do that

i am def gonna play austro and bary WAY more than deino

to me, having deino just be a non-issue to every competent player is such a boring design

[limpid bear]

i mean , ofc theyre gonna be way more agile

[limber hull]

yea, and faster on land

[limpid bear]

ye

[limber hull]

so deino should be faster in a straight line in the water

[limpid bear]

i just find the dominance of deino so annoying some times guess ill have to wait for spino

[limpid bear]

oh 100%

i retracted my thing

it was kinda outa pure spite lol

[round sail]

LMAO DIDNT EVEN SEE THAT😂

[obtuse wing]

We were supposed to have these three mid-tier ceratopsians with very different playstyles, but instead we’ll only have the “Diablo,” which doesn’t fulfill the role of any of them effectively or completely. Very sad

[limber hull]

why would we only have diablo

diablo doesn't remove the other ceratopsians

you can still easily add pachyrhinosaurus and styraco (although i think styraco is somewhat redundant and just kind of another diablo/trike)

[obtuse wing]

I'm not going to debate with you because I was establishing good points for us to discuss, and you just threw it all away.
And that's it, we won't have one ceratopsian that lives in large groups, we won't have one that goes toe-to-toe with Alberto/sucho and lives alone
We won't have one large ceratopsian that lives in large groups.
We'll have Diablo, He's a fool when he's alone. ; in groups it's ignored or caught by Deinosuchus. Long live Diablo!

[urban flax]

What if styraco is fast
Herbivore carno
Or... omnivore carno

[urban flax]

This looks like he's having hallucinations

[limber hull]

diablo is a large ceratopsian that can live in large groups

also a "ceratopsian that goes toe-to-toe with alberto/sucho and lives alone" could easily describe pachyrhino

i also didn't try to throw away anything, i was making a point of my own and you disliked it, there was no bad faith intentions

[limber hull]

yea, see, i genuinely don't grasp that well what styraco could add that hasn't already been seen on another animal

pachyrhino, however, could still be added at the 6-7 ton range and be entirely unique from both diablo and trike, both in combat style and weight class

also the funniest part about all of this is that diablo has been 3 tons since legacy

this isn't new, in fact, it's the norm

[obtuse wing]

That's not what it appears to be; I was honestly making points that no one disagrees with, precisely because comments like "the dino has to be viable on its own" and "The Isle isn't a paleontological game" were already popping up.

Things I don't disagree with, but which frequently resurfaced, and I had to repeat things I had already said.

[urban flax]

idc
It's just fast
I think it would be incredibly funny (although absolute hell to balance) to have a 4+ton herbivore run at ludicrous speeds and impale targets

https://tenor.com/view/and-god-taketh-away-and-god-taketh-away-gif-6357050272012842114

[urban flax]

Imagine this
But it's a styraco

[limber hull]

this is valid

[shy turtle]

#general-feedback message @crystal meteor You could play unofficials with faster growth once the HT is patched up for Evirma branch

[summer olive]

good. Im glad they saw their mistake

[crystal meteor]

don't have unofficals in the OCE region, just AU servers

[shy fox]

@full comet i fully agree with the latter statement, legacylike war of attrition fights are the most fun you can have in this game. sadly we seem to be moving in the 'who has the most busted special ability' direction

[full comet]

Yeah absolutely. Ive had some amazing fights standing on the edge of a river, no stam, no blood, a pack of raptors barking at me, ceras in the distance. The thrill of the hunt or being hunted can both be fun if it tells a story and you feel like you did everything you could to stand your ground.
Like sure pin me if im worn down and ive got nothing left, thats fair.
But full health prime getting spam pinned by something your same size and losing ur dino in a matter of 60 seconds feels like a waste

[shy fox]

yeah sadly this game's design philosophy doesn't follow any kind of logic, i feel like the devteam balance things and create abilities based on the aesthetic of a hyperhardcore survival game with jumpscares to justify the "horror" title rather than admitting that their product is objectively a pioneer in the pvp survival genre and leaning more into balance and fairness. i get that a hypsi shouldn't be able to take down a rex, but pin being rex'es primary thing is just bull

[cyan flame]

I'm not sure it's aesthetics as much as them wanting a more hardcore experience and feeling. As in, fighting should be avoided if at all possible, rather than seen as something epic to engage in. And if that's kind of the goal, pin and similar mechanics do make some sense, it's very much a case of "Do not mess with unless you need it", over fighting for the sake of fighting.

[indigo notch]

@pliant elm growing species need to be vulnerable

That’s why Maia has slow speed till it’s grown up

[pliant elm]

Maia has nothing but weight up to 60%, about 2 tons

There's no damage to defend against, nor the speed to escape

It's literally a walking lunchbox xd

Maia being "slow" up to about 10-30%? No problem. But up to 60%? That is ridiculous.

[indigo notch]

True

Thinking about it having Maia be a lunch box till 60% does nobody any good, it just hurts the eco system. Maia players will just decide to afk and never show themselves

[cyan flame]

Fair enough, the game does have it's issues

[shy fox]

a whole 10 years of them

[hollow mirage]

#general-feedback message
Swimming teno 🥺

[icy lion]

@pseudo oar Check the pinned messages in the official server channels to see how to report hackers

[jovial arch]

You used to be right but I think with primes system this has changed, they will be willing to roam around the map to hit prime

[drowsy heron]

Imagine instead Ouranosaurus, is fat, but also aquatic. We desperately need more aquatic dinos

[wild crescent]

@zenith pagoda

#general-feedback message

perhaps with a claw slash?

[zenith pagoda]

i mean yeah, it would make sense for it to stun it with the claw attack, but i just feel like allo just instakilling cera with the grapple is too much, grapple should just stun it imo, plus it makes the whole ability a lil bit more unique.

[wild crescent]

Wdym? How would that work in gameplay? It would do the rmb attack and if it lands it just does a stun? Would it do any damage or bleed ?

[junior nymph]

I dont think you understand what grapple is

[zenith pagoda]

yeah ofc, medium dmg and bleed seems good imo, you land the grapple, knock the cerato or carno over (does dmg and bleed), and thats it, instakilling it aint fair

[wild crescent]

Kinda how my feedback sounds, i agree

[limber hull]

Any Carno you hit with that is probably dead either way

Like given allo’s bleed output

Knockdown, a few bites, thing is going to be bled out in seconds

[zenith pagoda]

yeah but thats much better than just insta dying cus of the pin imo

[limber hull]

Also I feel like a way easier solution is to make stam on pounce/pin cost way more

So there’s higher chance of escape

[wary cargo]

I am so tired of canni Allos

[zenith pagoda]

yeah, that would work too ngl

[gusty osprey]

@zenith pagoda I majorly agree with your feedback post ~ A knock over mechanic (can be worked in a lot like Rexes current headbutt via weight class) makes much more sense in my mind and is what I envisioned when I first heard allo was going to get a latch/pounce ~ Like a knock them over, then start ripping them to shreds on the ground type of mechanic ~ I also agree that Allo should have its stamina drained like a mf when they pounce, both in use and during the animation itself ~ A 3.9 ton dinosaur (of any kind) shouldn't be able to physically latch and hold its own body weight nor should there be a dinosaur with skin strong enough to support a 3.9 ton dinosaur holding on to it with its dagger like claws without the claws just ripping down the side of its body from the sheer weight.

[golden horizon]

#general-feedback message
Some people don't have the hardware to run Evrima and most players still play legacy

[wooden agate]

most players definitely do not play legacy lol

frankly, its more than overdue for legacy to be put on the backburner and have evrima become the main branch

[golden horizon]

Only around 2k players play evrima while the rest play legacy. Most isle players are actually chinese players that play legacy

[limber hull]

then make it a seperate branch i guess

[limber hull]

how does chatGPT prove literally anything lol

[golden horizon]

It's better than your source: Trust me bro

[limber hull]

what source????

trust me on what?

what are you talking about lmao

[golden horizon]

So you're telling me the info is wrong ?
What is your counter argument?

OP made a statement, which i challenged and provided info to backup my counter argument

[limber hull]

that chatGPT has absolutely no way to have that info and using it as a source is basically just sourcing a random number generator

[golden horizon]

Bro AI scans the internet for the info, so ofcourse it does

Its not random lmao

This is from Steamdb, is this also a random number generator?

[limber hull]

no

but it doesn't show who's in legacy and who's in evrima

[golden horizon]

chatGPT stated there is about 5500 concurrent players, which is pretty accurate

[golden horizon]

I told it to look up all public servers distributed across legacy and evrima

[barren crater]

😭

[golden horizon]

So instead of me manually going on legacy and evrima branch and count up all the players, AI does it for me

[latent olive]

there was a guy recently arguing that legacy had more players because “the numbers on evrima don’t make sense” and his argument was “china has their own special version of the game and like 8 thousand Chinese people play it”

where did he get that information?

don’t know

[golden horizon]

I think you're talking about @subtle coral

[subtle coral]

Yeah that’s not what I said

[latent olive]

damn these two knew each other

that’s wild

[subtle coral]

The Chinese servers on legacy actually have heaps of real players, so those numbers would be crazy. Then I added at the end that some modders said there was supposedly a Chinese client which is unconfirmed, and I mentioned the Isle source code is leaked in China and they have their own rip off version of it

[limber hull]

relying on ChatGPT for info when it infamously collects incorrect info as much as correct info is a really badidea for info going forward

[golden horizon]

I never forget the time I met Futilesummer randomly

[subtle coral]

That’s crazy you still have that

[golden horizon]

What is incorrect about the info i brought ?

[golden horizon]

Or this encounter

But the 2nd time you got me 😭

W vids

[limber hull]

it's got no basis beyond ChatGPT, something which has no realistic way to attain that information beyond estimate

[frozen heron]

Chatgpt for statistics? lul

[golden horizon]

Estimations are made on reasonable data

How do you think meteorologists predict the weather? On estimations

[limber hull]

so you could just say "i made it up" and it'd be the same

[frozen heron]

Meteorologists do their own research and calculations instead of relying on a LLM

[golden horizon]

No, that would be "trust me bro"

I hate the notion people have that just because its from chatgpt, it must be wrong

[limber hull]

i hate the notion people have that ChatGPT is always accurate all the time

a complete lack of critical thinking

[golden horizon]

I never played its always accurate

It even says on the bottom of the page that it can be wrong, and you need to verify important information with 2nd sources

My 2nd source was steamDB.info which had roughly similar numbers

[limber hull]

which doesnt say anything about player distribution

[golden horizon]

Correct, but my original comment was to challenge the guy that said we should just remove legacy

I said most isle players are playing legacy, which he denied

I brought arguments and info that said otherwise, while he brought nothing up

So his source is basically: trust me bro

If you can't have 100% correct info, then estimations are the next best thing

[wooden agate]

okay first of all

a) using ChatGPT automatically means nothing to me, thinking generative AI will give you any sort of accurate answer is hilarious.

b) im going off what past senior admins for this server (Saoul specifically) have said about legacy playercount considering they've, yknow, seen the numbers

[wooden agate]

so unfortunately, im going to believe senior admins over generative AI slop

[limber hull]

lmao that's a pretty good source by comparison

someone who actually works for and on the game, specifically on the server moderation

[golden horizon]

And you still havent brought anything up to backup your claims.

Saying, bro admin told me this is basically hearsay.

So what if I told you, that Dondi told me that most player play legacy?

"I spoke with Dondi privately, so believe me"

[wooden agate]

...anyway

[golden horizon]

You would want some evidence right, or do you just take my word with face value?

[wooden agate]

well you use chatgpt as a source so no i wouldnt take your word with face value lol

[golden horizon]

But your dm from 2 years ago proves your argument, how ?

Btw Saoulzod have no admin roles, so how can he be senior admin ?

Use critical thinking

[urban flax]

His account is no longer on this server
But I can confirm he used to be a senior admin

[limber hull]

yep, absolutely an admin

[golden horizon]

He's not an admin

[limber hull]

he absolutely is one of the most well-known and longest running admins for the isle

just because he's not in this server doesn't change that truth

[golden horizon]

Keep telling yourself that

[limber hull]

oh i forgot, ChatGPT didn't say it so it ain't true lol

[golden horizon]

Better than "trust me bro"

[limber hull]

multiple people have confirmed the fact, it's not even "trust me", it's "this happened"

[junior nymph]

are we arguing that saoul wasnt a admin?

[limber hull]

yup, everything saoul did never happened apparently

[golden horizon]

Chatgpt use Open AI, which provides AI models to over 7000 companies. Your phone, car, computer etc. use AI

[urban flax]

Using ChatGPT as a source is actually worse than just saying "trust me bro"
Because if you use the latter there is at least one human being who believes you (yourself)
If you use ChatGPT there is none

[golden horizon]

They said saoul is an admin, I tried to verify that, but doesnt seem like he has the role

[junior nymph]

its because as they said, he left the server, he was indeed a admin and was for a long time.

[golden horizon]

When did i say you could use chatGPT as a source?
ChatGPT provides sources where it gets its information from

[urban flax]

Then use the sources directly

ChatGPT also often says a lot of things that have nothing to do with the sources it mentions

[golden horizon]

It takes information from many diffrent sources, and I dont have the time to look through everything.

[urban flax]

skill issue

[golden horizon]

I also said I could manually go look up every public server on both evrima and legacy branch, but that would take me many hours. Instead I used AI to do it for me. What's wrong with that?

[urban flax]

The AI didn't do it

[golden horizon]

Then what did, the thin air ?

[limber hull]

do you know how much misinformation is on the internet?