general-feedback-discussion

[summer geode]

Yet the mixpackers will staunchly defend it and pretend it should be 1000000000% accepted like in PoT

[raven sky]

I too hate mixpacking but giving any sort of debuffs for staying in the same area will just never work in a real gameplay environment.

It's extremely easy to grief because something like a tiny baby cera or a troodon can just stay next to a stego to debuff it, so then its friends can come and kill it.

These sort of debuffs also are detrimental to the concept of following, stalking and ambushing your prey

[summer geode]

I know the devs are "working on it" but that is years out.

Personally, after rex allo and spino, I'd prefer an anti-mix mechanic more than [insert useless playable here]

[normal shuttle]

@summer geode sounds so fun to get debuffed by something that can perfectly evade you and just wants to troll

[cyan flame]

The problem is that it seems rather tricky to find a mechanic that works, and also can't be used to troll or grief or just be turned against you

[summer geode]

Takes 30 mins.

Must be within size range of you

Affects them just as much

That alone would prevent 95% of the casual mixpackers.

Griefers? No. But the casual filth that mixpack and KoS an entire server? yes.

[normal shuttle]

RIP endurance fights too

And you cannot really disregard collateral damage

[summer geode]

30+ minutes and taking damage clears it.

So.

Endurance fights are fine

[cyan flame]

So you can have others staying out of range, waiting for the debuffs, then come in and hunt you?

[normal shuttle]

Getting hit in the tip of the tail every 20 minutes

[cyan flame]

Oh and also, it's not neccesarily staying close together without fighting that's the issue anyway, it's working together in fighting and so on, so you'd basically punish people for not killing or at least attacking other things on sight, rather than trying to prevent people from wanting to cover each others weaknesses

[summer geode]

Requires more effort and coordination than 95% of mixpackers can manage.

For every 1 "griefer" mixpacker you can cite I can cite 10 casual mixpackers today.

That alone makes it worthwhile

[cyan flame]

Until you realize that most of those that currently would not care, will, and you'll get a bunch of others that will care instead and use it

[summer geode]

Then make it "hit to yellow" or some other higher threshold.

A troo wouldn't be able to debuff a stego.

[summer geode]

Doesn't change the fact that it'd significantly reduce mixpacking and even in your strawman example it'd take 30+ mins alone with something not attacking you just for you to be primed for something else to come in an attack you, only to have the debuff cleared instantly.

[normal shuttle]

Quick healing dinosaurs getting a free ally for just a few minutes of healing is crazy

[summer geode]

"Oh no, a strawman arguement against any mixpack mechanic. Guess there never should be an anti mixpack mechanic ever"

[summer geode]

All mixpackers being yellow and bleeding 24/7 vs all mixpacker sperfectly healthy is still worth it.

Besides, you'd end up bleeding out your fellow mixpackers eventually

[cyan flame]

Now that's actually a proper strawman, unlike what I said. I never said there shouldn't be any, just pointing out that most suggestions tend to be not that good, because they can be abused.

Your entire argument boils down to "This would discourage people", yes, and it would also encourage others

And your idea isn't perfect either

[summer geode]

Someone a month ago suggested that nothing be done other than increase the range of the pack detection sniff.

Which was a ridiculous change that wouldn't affect the problem in the slightest

[cyan flame]

Okay, was that me? Because otherwise, it has nothing to do with anything I've said?

[summer geode]

Never said it was.

But something must be done.

[summer geode]

Thought it was, apologies

[cyan flame]

So not sure why you're acting as if I've argued that nothing should be done, I've acknowledged that the devs do want to fix it, and that they want to do so via mechanics. But that it's easier said than done, and that most suggestions tend to be able to be abused, and thus not really liked.

And I'm not expecting a perfect suggestion from you either, but the point of the discussion channel is to well, discuss the feedback. And well, there are things to take into account in this case too.

[summer geode]

Every mechanic ever can be abused to varying degrees.

I'd argue that any anti-mixpack mechanic can be abused

[cyan flame]

It's possible, maybe there is no actually good idea, I don't know. So far most ideas aren't, but I don't know what the devs might come up with either.

[summer geode]

30+ mins for a griefing mixpack to debuff someone is wayyyyyyyy better than "oops mixpack here, guess I die"

[cyan flame]

I do personally want it fixed, and I'd also have it so herbis can't mix either, but that's not as popular

[summer geode]

Herbi mixpacking is just as broken, just not as abuseable

Herbs are already intentionally overtuned to encourage more herbi players.

Mixpacking just removes all possible weaknesses.

[cyan flame]

Don't know if I agree that herbis are overtuned, but otherwise, yes, herbis mixing has the same effect as carnis, or carni/herbi.

But the devs don't seen to neccesarily mind herbis mixing so, well

[summer geode]

"They do it in nature" is the thin reasoning.

ignores video of rhino killing zebra or elephants bullying herds from water sources

The tolerate eachother in nature.

They don't hold hands and chase the lion pride across Africa and stomp them to death

[covert tiger]

@summer geode the devs have already acknowledged they hate mixpacking and will implement measures to fix it
Your stress thing isn't a solution at all though
Extremely easily abusable by biting a tail every now and then (stego bite does like 50 dmg)

[summer geode]

But either way- the core problem is carni/herbi mixpacking

[summer geode]

Taking damage down to yellow/orange is not "nail biting"

[covert tiger]

Hmm

[summer geode]

And yes- as stated above the devs have said that.

They've said a ton of things.

None of which have happened.

I'd argue that if you put up a poll for the entire playerbase on if they wanted [insert useless playable here] or dryo burrowing or an anti-mixpack mechanic, the results would be completely one sided.

[covert tiger]

Still not really applicable
What if one is already orange and friends are coming to protect and kill the attackers and then going away?

Too many scenarios where this can be bypassed

[summer geode]

So your hypothetical-

Tenno at orange fighting ceras

Random carnos show up to help

No one has mixpack debuff, as no one was together for 10+ minutes previously

?

[summer geode]

I'm sure the devs in their infinite wisdom will come up with the perfect mechanism with absolutely zero flaws ever.

Totally.

Bet my life savings on it.

Sure.

[rugged plaza]

Just read the mixpacking suggestion, I just wanna say that mechanics that encourage players not to do something are light years better than mechanics that force them not to

[summer geode]

Agreed. But stress coercion or resistance pathing are known game design elements

Not everything can or should be pure encouragement based.

[rugged plaza]

Example: you have different diets so you likely won’t be a compatible group (obviously doesn’t stop anyone just an example)

[summer geode]

If you come up with a system that is based on encouragement, I'll just play devils advocate and say

"Well what if I still want to grief with my friends? You can't stop me."

[covert tiger]

When have the devs released mechanics that are flawed and abusable?
They're often buggy and unbalanced initially sure but often get fixed and solidified after a while

[rugged plaza]

Right, but some servers allow or encourage mixpacking and a mechanic that forces them to not be able to wouldn’t really be fair to them. Not in defense of mixpacking- in defense of player freedom

[rugged plaza]

Right nobody can stop you but it’s less optimal and will have negative side effects. Example being nest greifs. They get nothing from it and then they just get killed.

[summer geode]

Cool so make the feature a toggle at the server level.

Besides, for every casual mixpack positive server I can find 10 that have anti-mixpack rules.

[summer geode]

Negative side effects = not encouragement based

That's called resistance pathing

You said pure encouragement (going hyperbolic here)

So that's not allowed

[rugged plaza]

That’s true. I just don’t really like the idea of stress mechanics- it feels very fickle

[rugged plaza]

I meant more encouraged not to do something because you’ll be at a disadvantage if you do/ you’re better off if you don’t

[summer geode]

Like it or not, some form of a stress mechanic will likely be implemented.

It'll be called something else, but there's no other realistic way to reduce the prevalence of mixpacking otherwise

[rugged plaza]

Sure.. but there’s no way to just stop it altogether either so I don’t see why the “play community servers” argument isn’t viable

[rugged plaza]

People who want to grief with their friends by mixpacking are still gonna do it. You can “encourage” or whatever you want to call it players not to do something but the only set in stone way to stop it is by going in there with a list of rules and enforcing it- like in community servers.

[summer geode]

Of course.

Greifers exist everywhere.

Example- in FPS games, team killers are toxic and get kicked form the game automatically or by a vote.

The system is relatively robust, and ubiquitous across many games.

Yet people still grief and team kill.

The feature is abusable (dive on a friendly players grenade then have your friends vote to kick).

Does that mean the feature should never exist because it doesn't 1000000% solve the team killing problem in say CSGO or because it is absuable?

Of course not.

[summer geode]

Yes. Exactly.

But the principle is to reduce to frequency of that and prevent the more casual players from doing it.

[rugged plaza]

I agree, but I feel like this situation is different somehow. Giving people a choice to pick servers with rules to enforce punishment to behavior they don’t like is the solution. People who pick officials choose to expose themselves to it.

[summer geode]

To again go hyperbolic-

So you are saying there will never be a perfect solution so therefore they shouldn't even try and the only realistic solution is community servers?

Sounds ridiculous tbh

Again- refer to my FPS team killing example

[rugged plaza]

Not exactly, it’s just that a mechanical solution isn’t really necessary when you already have a solution in the form of “go here if you don’t wanna see this behavior”

[summer geode]

"We can't realistically 10000000% prevent team killing in CSGO so you should only ever play private lobbies among friends with special rules"

[summer geode]

Imperfect and deeply flawed band-aid solution

deeply flawed.

[summer geode]

See here

[rugged plaza]

I understand where you’re coming from but I still think that it isn’t needed, but in the case if it was added I see a varied results with its success, like either it won’t really work or it punishes people when it shouldn’t

[summer geode]

Your logic is flawed and your reasoning is equally unsound.

Apply the same to team killing in CSGO and it sounds asinine

It'll have varied results no matter what

That doesn't mean that it shouldn't be implemented

And that nothing can be done

Some people dislike the nutrient /diet system.

Should we get rid of that too?

What about mutations? I heard 1% of the playerbase dislikes them.

Guess they should go as well.

[rugged plaza]

Ok. We aren’t talking about an FPS game. We’re talking about a big world with infinite numbers of interactions between players and creating a system that effectively reduces the problem of “x and y being too close for too long” without major issues might not have been implemented for a reason.

Sorry, but I’d rather play a community server than deal with something like beasts of Bermuda built-in rules

[summer geode]

We are talking about features implemented to solve problems in games.

The example I used is team killing in CSGO to point out the flawed reasoning and conclusion you are drawing in The Isle with any potential anti-mixpack mechanic ever

[rugged plaza]

I’m sure there’s ways to reduce the number of people who mixpack without having to deal with a mechanic as fickle as directly facing the issue, which is why I don’t want that to happen

[summer geode]

Then go play unoffocials with it turned off.

The majority of the playerbase despises mixpackers.

The majority wants some form of anti-mixpacking.

If you don't like it, play elsewhere.

Why should the 20% that enjoy mixpacks and KoSing force the 80% to unofficials with a band-aid solution.

Flawed logic is flawed

[rugged plaza]

I’m not avoiding a direct solution because I want mixpackers to mixpack- I’m avoiding a direct solution because indirect ones would likely have less downsides and might work just as fine

[summer geode]

Yes. Through resistance pathing.

Just like your "bad diets" negative effect referenced earlier

It doesn't have to be heavy handed at all- something light and a gentle push not to mixpack at first.

But claiming that because it -

A. Doesn't solve all mixpacking ever for the rest of eternity

B. Will make the 20% of the playerbase who actively mixpack to grief upsetti spaghetti

C. Could possibly be abused through a convoluted series of actions by a coordinated group of griefers over a long period under niche circumstances

And therefore no attempt to fix the issue should ever ever ever ever be made is just heavily flawed reasoning.

[rugged plaza]

I guess we’ll see what happens if something is implemented

[summer geode]

Sometime between when humans are added and when aliens become playables I'm sure

These devs move glacially and become side tracked quite easily.

Bless their hearts, but focus and efficiency is needed. Less people care about humans being added than mixpacking

[faint folio]

@summer geode I'm not gonna scroll and read the whole conversation, so please forgive me if this has already been mentioned. Half of WRail is too big. It's very common for multiple species to exist in a hotspot at the same time without fighting and definitely NOT be mix packing. Case in point - the other day, I was playing solo dilo. I could see/hear a large carno pack, and I was trying very hard to sneak around them without being noticed in the trees. I was definitely within half of WRail to them (at one point I heard one's footsteps), and I was there for a while, but I was hiding because I wasn't mix packing and I didn't want to get run down by an over pack carno group on my solo dilo. The size of that radius would have meant we both would have been debuffed and they would have known I was there.

[rugged plaza]

Yeah, and being hunted by something that’s trying not to be detected for a long period would flag both of you too and mess it up.

[faint folio]

Plus, the isle isn't intended to force everyone in close proximity to fight - several dinos are designed around running away and/or outmaneuvering enemies without actually leaving the area

[rugged plaza]

Countless interactions to account for when there are other maybe less effective but also less tedious solutions

That’s my point, but we’ll never know for sure

[faint folio]

I don't mind a mix packing debuff, but it needs to be applied judiciously with a more complicated algorithm than just "spend 30 minutes in the general region without attacking each other". Maybe an algorithm where you might get flagged with the debuff if you attack the same dinosaur as another species multiple times would work better?

[summer geode]

Sure, it was just a rough idea of a possible mechanic. It's not perfect.

[summer geode]

Sure. It was just a rough idea.

I'd be over the moon if any anti mixpack mechanic was implemented period.

[rugged plaza]

Hell, maybe an ai that determines if you’re mixpacking 😭

[summer geode]

Id rather have AI driven anti-cheat with live patching/monitoring for games in general lmao

[faint folio]

Like, say a carno and a stego were mix packing. They see a Utah pack, and start attacking them together. That won't give them the debuffs, but it will flag them (to prevent accidental flagging of 3rd partying). If they then both attack say a dilo pack within the hour that they are flagged, then they will get hit with a debuff

[summer geode]

Sure.

But a debuff and some form of a detection system are needed.

Most mixpackers are griefers- so relying purely on "encouraging them not too" is largely pointless

[rugged plaza]

On the topic of anti cheat, I’m surprised there aren’t any (known to me) mechanics that would flag hacking. Such as an alarm so to speak if a cera is moving faster than it should

[faint folio]

Honestly I don't care if multiple species want to like walk together - it's when they help each other out in combat that it becomes incredibly unfair to everyone else

[rugged plaza]

True

[faint folio]

I'm not familiar enough with easy anti cheat to know what is possible there. It's possible if the AC flags a hacker they're automatically kicked or banned, or maybe a report is made to the admins

It does seem like it should be able to detect more hacks that it currently appears to

[summer geode]

You'd be surprised how complicated things quickly get...

[summer geode]

Apex uses EAC and it might as well be wet tissue paper stopping rain.

The arms race of anti-cheat vs chest devs will forever favor the cheat devs until AI driven Anti-cheat becomes a thing.

AI driven anti cheat

Like real, actual AI anti-cheat
Not just buzzword "AI" or some rudimentary model reviewing game data like a bloated file parser-- is maybe 5-10yrs off.

It's being tested in some games, but the industry hasn't revealed which games its being tested in.

Fortnite and Val are suspected to have tested it on certain servers at some point in the past 2 years

[faint folio]

Yeah I agree. That's one of the reasons player reports are incredibly important for catching cheaters

[vernal jacinth]

@willow sinew it’s /unstuck. you can see it in the pins of the respective region channels. #general-feedback is just meant for feedback on the game

[normal shuttle]

Bro, why are people disagreeing

Old UI did its purpose just fine

Same as the actually non creatively bankrupt death screen

Sure, deceased makes a lot more sense and is less cringy than extinct, but at least it was different

We need more creative artwork in UI and such

[acoustic spruce]

Damn I really thought this notification was an announcement notification 😭

[normal shuttle]

@dire bear disagree

it's still art

I just think extinct was better art

same as stone UI

[limber hull]

the old UI was ass i'mma be real

i much prefer current UI, and especially the UI rework

[wooden agate]

#general-feedback message

god if any feedback from me gets the devs interest please let it be this one i would DIE

[limber hull]

#general-feedback message

Roster Critique ❌
Long-winded, thinly veiled way of saying "add quetz" ✅

[dire bear]

"Its still art" bro NO ONE brought that up I just said its not really good 😭

[calm kelp]

anyone else quit offical cause of the rampant bs mixpackers that are the only thing killing people

[rugged plaza]

Yep

[dire bear]

That + hackers + low player count

If it wasnt for petit pieds i wouldnt be playing the isle

[limber hull]

i like officials idk

[leaden bronze]

@urban flax 😭

dryo already has a tail atack

[limber hull]

dryo also has kicks and dodges and whatnot. Unlike stego, whos entire combat plain is just swinging its tail at things till they die

[urban flax]

And it's stupid enough

[limber hull]

i dont see the comparison lol

[leaden bronze]

ik lol

it is just a fun sugestion

[urban flax]

I don't upvote troll feedback

[leaden bronze]

why do you mean troll feedback?

it is as serious as any other feedbacl

I demand dryo gets a charged tail atack that 1 shot trike

[limber hull]

you don't need to double down man

we already knew it was a troll lol

[dry falcon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/855527844670865438/1354740250903052440/kaperoo-the-isle.gif

[limber hull]

#general-feedback message

its... literally a forest animal. It is DESIGNED to climb trees and live in forests why would it not spawn there.

[woven bane]

i see where he’s coming from. sanctuaries for carnivores would fix this issue

[thick summit]

I want sanctuaries for small-medium carnivores but not larger carnivores like apexes or sucho

The largest animal in a sanctuary should be an Alberto imo

[latent olive]

human buildings

[gilded drift]

the problem @tacit solar proposed is fixed by higher pop

the only solution to that

@worldly notch if crocs are having suuuch a hard time, why is everyone playing them?

[pliant elm]

@tacit solar Jungle is a good spawn, you spawn there and go straight to Highlands or water access just by going straight north

[normal shuttle]

Good suggestion

[woeful latch]

jungle spawns are actually better, i don’t want to spawn in the middle of the hotspot plains and instantly die to carno

[icy lion]

@sonic tangle Redwoods are planned and there's always a devblog at the end of the month

[normal shuttle]

@naive slate I would love to spend 30 seconds eating a single bush that will give me 4% food

And I don’t think the food they give you should be increased either

Although that is unrelated

[naive slate]

well yes, look, the loop of gameplay from a herbivore is eat bush, so where is the fun when you eat in one second?

[normal shuttle]

First of all, no that isn’t the loop of gameplay lol

And secondly, where is the fun when there are cases where you might lose food quicker than you gain it?

[naive slate]

thats go to the dev team resolve, they could do a small buff, where you don't feel hungry while eating a bush, or etc... the fact that it is strange eating a bush the size of my house in one bite is strange, + they could just chance the % not fix it to 10% as I said

[normal shuttle]

Or you could simply have fixated food intake values like we currently have

So you eat a bush entirely if you can and that’s it

And therefore being a more effective feeder

Also this happens to carnivores as well, and I don’t see why that should be addressed when it occurs

[naive slate]

oh its bring me back memorys from the legacy, the camarassaurus, it was % of food from a bush, eat in one bite, and hated for that....

[normal shuttle]

I liked that as a shant so I didn’t have to put up with other herbis taking the other bushes and getting their fixated mouthfuls while you would be hypothetically forced to take smaller bites than usual

[wooden agate]

thank you im unusually fond of it myself

[idle echo]

what happened to the anti aliasing option in the graphics settings of Evrima? I hate how blurry everything looks, I wanna turn whatever they're using off

[normal shuttle]

I just don’t see why it shouldn’t

Baby crocs also eat things that are vastly different from what adults eat like insects and small fish

Don’t see why small barys wouldn’t try to find stuff like crabs

@leaden bronze the dibble thing is just latency

From their point of view it prolly hit you anywhere but the tip of the tail

[leaden bronze]

can they fix their wifi?

I am playing on 30-50 ping and this happens bruh

[gilded drift]

just don't play official

go to petids petit

[leaden bronze]

I did not play on official

[gilded drift]

ok and?

[leaden bronze]

yea the same server

[leaden bronze]

why so arrogant?

[gilded drift]

where in the map should there be redwoods? @sonic tangle

[normal shuttle]

Fix yours

Or well

It could also be people playing on a garbage net

And that’s something devs cannot really address other than ping matchmaking (unviable with that server selection format)

[leaden bronze]

i am playin hon 30 ping

[normal shuttle]

Okay

And what about the other person?

And also there’s other things that could be causing lag. Your ping isn’t the only way to determine that

[leaden bronze]

how do I destroy arrogant pachys, btw is it normal for pachys to 1 shot my legs when I am carno?!?!?!? he did not even break my body or non

dude tp'ed to me and broke my legs like wth can theese guys fix their wifi?

[normal shuttle]

Yes. Well charged ram can fracture carnos in one blow

[leaden bronze]

it wasnt cahrged

just fast rmb

[normal shuttle]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-impossible-marvel-shocked-gif-15104180

[leaden bronze]

so this isnt normal?

stupid cheater

[normal shuttle]

Or maybe ur coping

Or just something that has to do with lag skipping animations

But it could be a cheater too

[woeful latch]

carno has no fracture resistance, same as dilo or omni, all of those break on first bonk

[leaden bronze]

bruh, nerf cera

[woeful latch]

well if game doesn’t decide to be silly

[thick summit]

why?

The only problematic thing about cera is the vomit stun lock and its charged bite

there's nothing wrong about the armoured theropod being slightly more resistant to fractures

[leaden bronze]

rmb spam

it was meant to be defensive abbility

cera way much better than carno rn

[thick summit]

that's literally what I was talking about

[thick summit]

it literally isn't

[leaden bronze]

all the passives, body buffs, rotten food eating

[thick summit]

you can't compare 2 animals that have different niches

[leaden bronze]

dude wth, u can spam rmb and can grab 60% of carno health in single vomit stunb ruh

[thick summit]

w + shift

[leaden bronze]

I can lol, cera way much better bc of all the passives

[leaden bronze]

dude stop being so cocky

[thick summit]

carno's niche is hunting smaller prey. Cera can't catch up to dilos, herreras, gallis, omnis, etc.

[leaden bronze]

do you play dryo bc running is a super duper running experience?

[thick summit]

I am not being cocky, I am literally telling you the most efficient way to survive ceratosaurus as the fastest terrestrial carnivore in the game

[leaden bronze]

cera is taking every spot where carno can live, they should not be able to win on plains

they were meant to be jungle annimals bruh

[thick summit]

Nah, I play carno, pachy, dibble and galli a lot

[thick summit]

They don't if you're skilled enough

[thick summit]

who told you that?

Cera should use dense terrain against certain animals but in the woods it'd die to dibbles, tenos, etc.

[leaden bronze]

bruh I win like 60% of fights but the fact that they are megapacking EVERYWHERE is annoying and I die after some time bc no matter what they find me 😭

[thick summit]

well that's not really a cera or carno problem

[leaden bronze]

add mega/mix packing nerfs

😭

[thick summit]

debuffs can easily be abused

the elder system should have something that makes megapacking/mixpacking not a viable option

[leaden bronze]

like dying after some time? that would be terible 😭

[thick summit]

nah

you just shouldn't be able to elder if you mixpack/megapack

[leaden bronze]

oh, yea thats nice

[thick summit]

aka, you won't grow stronger if you play like a goober

[leaden bronze]

what if they fg already?

[thick summit]

wdym?

you mean elders?

that's not too problematic as they'll age I guess

[leaden bronze]

oh ok

[wooden agate]

youre still going to grow old and weak regardless if you hit elder

but the option to 'die of old age' will likely be optional

[thick summit]

I thought only elders will age

[limber hull]

it absolutely would be terrible because mixpackers would use it to their advantage

the "don't reach elder" strategy is pretty good tho

[pliant elm]

Baiting the charged bite on Cerato is quite easy, it can be done even when you are as Dilo: Just go straight towards Cerato as if you are not going to stop and stop a moment before and turn your dino to one side so as not to be hit and then apply a bite. Yes, this works, most ceratos are not used to being baited so they will fall for it 90% of the time

[limber hull]

these are genuinely fine. It should keep these. I think the best balance change you could make is slap a 20% movespeed nerf while charging bite BUT you also gain a stability buff, like what teno gets as it tailslams, preventing you from being stunned easily

[rotund fractal]

I don`t know what you all mean. As a good Carno you can winn a 1 vs 1 against a Cera, and if there a cerapack you can run away as carno so I think its good how it is actually

"cera is taking every spot where carno can live" is actually not true, on the server where I play, mostly carnos dominate SP and westacess

I solo destroyed a cera as Carno. When I play Carno
I'm more afraid of dilos xDD

[proper bluff]

cera should be nerfed to 1 ton and 100-125 bite force. yes everyone is talking about this being an ass idea and leaving cera as it is rn, but cera is meant to be a scavenger, not an active hunter. its ridiculous because cera is now top land predator (which ofc would change when allo and rex arrive). but cera does need a nerf. ceras literally go for every single thing they see. i saw multiple times cera packs going for even duos or trios of stegos, in which they 99% of the time die because well they're fighting stegos. but they sometimes succeed. and yes, everything is about the skill, but cera is literally too strong, a solo cera can solo a stego, and while hard, it is doable, but that shouldnt be a thing. agree or disagree, but cera needing a nerf is a fact.

[proper bluff]

its mostly that they are literally everywhere thats whats annoying

[rotund fractal]

And than? Wait util first apex carnis come, than this "problem" is gone

[proper bluff]

i literally cant wait for that to happen

ceras are just insanely annoying to deal with because of the vomit

[rotund fractal]

Yeah but why nerf Cera?! Than you can take it out of the game actually? Except the bacteriasystem, cera is fine how cera is

[proper bluff]

no its not, its way to strong for its size

[rotund fractal]

nah he is not to strong for his size

why tell me a problem

[proper bluff]

dude a solo cera can solo a diablo or a stego even

that shouldnt be a thing

and yes everything depends on skill but like cmon

[rotund fractal]

As Cera you cant solo a Steggo, except the steggoplayer is bad, and the same as dibble

[proper bluff]

i've seen ceras doing this sm times

and usually dibbles/stegos put up a good fight

[rotund fractal]

As a cera you have a sure chance against 2 Tenos but against a Steggo who knows what he is doing, you never have a chance, and if you run around alone as a dibble and do not use the rocks and slopes you only have yourself to blame as a herbi

[proper bluff]

you've got a point here

[rotund fractal]

let me play steggo and you try to kill me as cera you dont have a chance

[proper bluff]

it is very hard but not impossible

remember in this game everything can die to everything

[rotund fractal]

I died 10 times because of trying solo a steggo and alone vs dibble is 50/50

[proper bluff]

2 dibbles and you can kill a steg

just gotta stun him all the time

[rotund fractal]

but i talk about a cera

[proper bluff]

oh ok i misread

[rotund fractal]

yeah

[proper bluff]

killing a dibble is way easier than a stego, you have to stay behind him, bait his alt attacks and you have a chance to bring it down then

but for stego you just have to bite the head whenever there's a possibility

[rotund fractal]

yeah "bait" but not every dibbleplayer let bait himself

its all a question of skill and tactic.

[proper bluff]

ye thats what im saying

[normal shuttle]

Bro. Do you realize how laughably inefficient cera would be with that?

Everything but charged bite and vomit is fine. And it’s also okay for cera to hunt because just scavenging isn’t reliable for any animal except for just a few who have tools that cera absolutely doesn’t.

Cera’s problems don’t lie in its weight and bite force

33% damage nerf

[proper bluff]

and how efficient is carno after the nerf? sure it can still kill stuff but its useless against basically everything bigger than a fg cera. you might be right with the vomit and charged bite tho

[ocean coral]

Carno = Small Game Hunter
Cera = endurance warrior

[normal shuttle]

Carno has no business trying to reliably take down something larger than a teno, whereas cera fighting off carnos, tenos and even some dibbles is totally acceptable if it weren’t for its charged bite allowing it to run around and hunt things while punching almost as hard as a deino

One is a fast moving small game hunter whose kit with a big game hunting tool would make it extremely oppressive, whereas the other is a scavenger corpse bully with brawler traces

Solo carnos should stand no chance against something like dibbles

[ocean coral]

Completely agree ^

[normal shuttle]

Whereas cera rolling an aggro teno is acceptable and in fact it’s a pretty healthy and well balanced matchup

[proper bluff]

why yall defending the most annoying ahh playable sm

ye its a good one but damn

[normal shuttle]

I am advocating for a nerf

Just not a nerf that would actively handicap what it is supposed to do

[normal shuttle]

This would solve most of cera’s problems currently

Charged bite adjustment, slight vomit adjustment, new big carni and we’re good to go

[proper bluff]

it is supposed to eat rotten carcassess

thats why being a scavenger means

[normal shuttle]

It is supposed to eat rotten carcasses, and also push other carnivores away from their kills

It is meant to be a defensively geared brawler, a giant cannibal hyena, not some frail vulture

[proper bluff]

push away, not actively hunt, its too slow to do such stuff

[normal shuttle]

And ofc hunting should also be an option

Because you cannot make something a pure scavenger without making it a vulture and even then that’s pretty unfun

I just don’t think charged bite should be used as a free offensive tool

But other than that it is acceptable

[normal shuttle]

And guess what you need for that, health and damage

[proper bluff]

yea you're right with this one

[normal shuttle]

Lowering its damage and health would encroach that

It is a cera, you should not be approaching it unless you are pretty sure you can take on it

[proper bluff]

thats why i always run away when i see one and im playing even a slightly bigger creature

i usually stay away from them bc their vomit shi is too annoying

[normal shuttle]

Yeah it’s a deterrent

Tbh I don’t mind the vomit being an instant stun…Unless it happens to dibbles or something larger

I think allos should get vomit sickness, but maybe something like a stego should be immune or just very significant weight soft caps

@proper bluff nah, as a herbi/omniv Stan, herbis need to have it a little hard and also an incentive to compete with each other rather than just cuddling together

https://tenor.com/view/godzilla-let-them-fight-fight-ken-watanabe-watanabe-gif-5687182

[proper bluff]

okay but how do ppl not agree with this

this just doesnt make sense for all plants to have the same value of food

[gleaming zealot]

Does anyone know if this game perhaps got plans for oceanic dino's?

[faint folio]

I think because if you left the total number of plant nodes alone and increased the food of the larger nodes, it would keep large herbis fed too easily. There needs to be some challenge in exchange for a more powerful dinosaur

[proper bluff]

i think yea but devs said those will be added after the game is finished i think

[proper bluff]

its not about that its about sense

which it doesnt make because a trike and stego 1 shots both flowers and a fruit tree bigger than it

[normal shuttle]

Okay but not only votes are meaningless to the devs, but that is also a logical fallacy.

More people agreeing with something doesn’t make it right

[normal shuttle]

I just feel like we’re la king in incentives to have herbis competing with each other

[faint folio]

It's about balance. A trike should not be able to eat a fruit tree and then afk grow for 20 minutes in a bush because it filled its stomach and diets from 1-2 of those

There's ways to achieve balance AND sense, though

It's not one or the other

For example, you could make marigolds proportionally a lot more likely to spawn that peach trees.

[proper bluff]

if all plants are meant to give the same ammount of food, why not just left one plant type? it doesnt make sense that flowers half a meter high go out as fast as a 7 meter high tree

[normal shuttle]

No known non avian dinosaur did thrive in the ocean that we know of

And since they would require an entire map and a roster catering to them, it’s not happening anytime soon. Maybe some future expansion/dlc but that’s it, nothing else

Better to not think about it. Best we’re getting is semis

[faint folio]

Because diets exist and different plants give different diets. Although the migration zones kinda destroy that by making all plants diet for all herbivores in a migration but

And you're right, it logically doesn't make sense

[proper bluff]

but in this case it should be balance<logic/realism, mostly because its annoying as sh*t

[faint folio]

But it's there for balance reasons - you don't want a trike to be able to fill up as easily as a dryo

Balance is king because it's a game, and if stegos are equally as easy as dryos to feed, people will pick stegos

[proper bluff]

but you also dont want to look for a plant for half an hour just to fill up your stomach by 10%

[faint folio]

For the same reason, many irl animals just eat straight up grass and get all their nutrients and food from that. But that will likely never be the case for the isle dinos

[proper bluff]

grass in the isle is only meant to keep you alive tho

when you're starving

[faint folio]

Yeah but by logic/realism it should give you diet. Horses, cattle, antelope, Guinea pigs, rabbits etc all eat majority grass to get all their nutrients

[proper bluff]

i 101% agree with that

[faint folio]

My point is, the isle doesn't function that way because that would be BROKEN for herbivore gameplay

Literally - it would mean the Herbie gameplay loop is reduced to - find field, hold E until attacked by carnis. Not fun

[proper bluff]

fun in this game is when you can grow a dino, fight with someone and win that fight

if you do all this, but you lose that fight, the game is not so fun anymore

or die from the stupidest thing like fall damage (which is ridiculous to some of the playables) or starvation

[faint folio]

It's also just kind of a boring mechanic to hold E until a carnivore group happens to find you, you know? That's why having to wander and look for food nodes for herbivores is valuable to the gameplay - it's something to do

[gleaming zealot]

there is plenty we know of about oceanic dinosaurs like for example the liopleurodon

[faint folio]

That's why grazing in game doesn't give you diet, and doesn't raise food above 20% even though it would be logical to do so

[proper bluff]

yea but looking for atleast a single plant for like an hour is not a good and fun thing

[gleaming zealot]

family of the pilosaurus

[proper bluff]

for carnis yes it makes sense, but for herbis? nah

[faint folio]

Agreed. I think there needs to be a balance here. And I think the balance should be increasing the food that large plant nodes provide, but making large nodes less common than small nodes. In a field irl there can be thousands of wildflowers, but may only be a handful of peach trees. Kinda similar idea. Make the large nodes high value to the large herbivores (say 20-30%), and the small nodes low value (10%). Then spawn a LOT of small nodes (say, 20-30) and a few large nodes (3-4) in a patrol/migration zone. This is how larger plants work irl, and it would help keep large herbis moving and active, while also giving them down time after finding a peach tree and giving them an incentive to resource guard the large nodes from other herbivores

@scarlet nova that's correct, a lot of people ignore migration zones. Idk if they've changed this but apparently herbis can force patrol zones to switch to where they are, and as a result they pick somewhere they want to grow and don't move. Carnivores largely follow that. Hotspots I've seen in official servers include North-east lake (by the volcano), West Access, West Rail, Highlands, and South Plains, regardless of whether migration is there or not

I haven't gone to east plains recently, but NW Ridge, jungle sector, and NE Jungle as well as South swamp have been pretty consistently quiet for me when I've been there (swamp is basically always abandoned)

Your mileage may vary

[gilded drift]

@scarlet nova they should increase pop

[drowsy nimbus]

Yeah I just clicked ts am I cooked

[void orchid]

#general-feedback message

dont reduce map size. Invest in better servers that can hold more players. That one server can hold 250 players without much issue and you see people all over. Better solution imo then reducing map

[dire bear]

You can do both

Cut the top right of the map off completely its pointless

[maiden trellis]

yes. this.

I don't want a smaller map. I like that it's huge. I just think they need to bump pop limits by half AND fix the migration mechanics. Since people just roll around SP and never move, the rest of the map feels devoid of life. I'm convinced this would also fix issues I have had with deino, because there's really only one to mayyyyyybe two places a fg deino can hope to encounter enough players to sustain.

the OP is basically an indictment of the migration system.

[rotund fractal]

no you say make cera very diffficult to play that it can kkill nothing

[maiden trellis]

I'm convinced there is no such thing as soloing a stego, unless you're a herra and have 3 hours to burn.

or it's a VERY bad stego player, or they're afk (which I would still give a 50/50 shot as long as they come back 10-15 seconds before they're dead).

[thorn folio]

@cinder haven agree except pachy speed. it was a beast in spiro with just its stun

[cinder haven]

It was much more fun back then, I admit it was strong but... it was still good (Also, it needs speed, otherwise they constantly kill it thanks to Cera's 5 hp and speed boost mutation) and also let it throw 3 stuns, what do we have to lose, it would be fun, now it's boring

[maiden trellis]

Pachy is already super OP for its size. It needs nothing. Baby rex being fast doesn't justify buffing a mid-size juggernaut.

[cinder haven]

Even dilo can barely kill, let's say trex bites 100, pachy dies instantly!

accept this pachy is useless right now

[maiden trellis]

dude, pachys break people in half if played well. I get told all the time to play better because I feel like Deino isn't as stout on land as I think it should be (bite force should be boosted), but pachy can break legs and bolt. Plus it can jump. It's not supposed to be able to walk around solo and kill packs of other players. That slot is reserved for stegos.

[cinder haven]

I don't want a denio bite buff, I was thinking I would have one! Secondly, baby denio should run fast on land, thirdly, the number of pachy is very few and even if you play well, your winning rate is very low.

[maiden trellis]

nope. I have played pachy. It was boring because with 2-3 of us we killed literally everything except stegos.

no challenges unless you challenged the god of the land.

[cinder haven]

Damn all the pachy I see always die so easily (Why doesn't a pachy come my way like you do)

Anyway, it doesn't mean anything that you play well, there are very few pachy players and that explains everything, people don't play, just like carno

[cinder haven]

I don't believe it, 2-3 people can't do anything.

[maiden trellis]

I don't know. Most dinos are designed to be in groups for strength, especially the mid-sized ones.

[cinder haven]

Yes, but if you have very few people playing dino, there is no point.

[maiden trellis]

You don't have to believe it. 2-3 people who know how to play well and play together well can kill a lot of stuff. Pachy, in my mind, is the herbi equivalent of raptor.

[normal shuttle]

That is NOT a dinosaur

[pliant elm]

@cinder haven I agree with everything, especially with Pachy. Pachy is currently bad, whether you hit or miss your headbutt you suffer self-stun, Its speed is extremely low for something weighing 500kg. It would also be good if it had a greater reduction in head damage, something like 90% dmg reduction

[cinder haven]

yep

[normal shuttle]

Theres not a single oceanic dinosaur that we know of. The closest we have is spinosaurs (or penguins, cormorants and the like ig) and those are semi aquatics

[pliant elm]

Playing well with pachy is far from being the same as omni

[cinder haven]

Actually I was going to write an article about Trodon and Hitbox but I didn't want to bother.

[maiden trellis]

not saying it's the same. no herbivore is going to be the same as any carnivore. I said it was the herbi equivalent, meaning similar size, and reliance on a pack to be strong.

[pliant elm]

What makes Pachy die so easily is the self-stun he suffers regardless of whether he misses or hits the headbutt.

[cinder haven]

but come on man if you like pachy would a little tiny buff be bad? 44 km speed 3 stun rights these aren't that big of a buff,

and Cera can catch you anyway they always get 5% hp and speed mutation and if you don't get that mutation they kill you

[gleaming zealot]

That IS a dinosaur

[normal shuttle]

No it isn’t lmao

It’s a pliosaur, a marine reptile

[pliant elm]

Yes, pachy in a group is really strong, being able to go against almost all carnivores besides Cerato and Deino in its maximum allowed group

[normal shuttle]

Liopleurodon is more closely related to like, turtles and maybe lizards than to dinosaurs

[pliant elm]

But alone pachy is nothing more than lunchbox, you are slow and die easily

[gleaming zealot]

Regardless they still existed in the prehistoric age

[cinder haven]

There would still be a lot of pointless death and injury (And it's hard to find that many guys and they all need to play it straight)

[normal shuttle]

Mosquitoes, mammals, crabs and ferns also existed in the prehistory, doesn’t make them dinosaurs.

Nor anything close to that

In fact we technically existed in the prehistory 🤓

But despite all of this, still the devs have said that it won’t be happening soon

Since that would need a whole new map and also a whole new roster since otherwise aquatic animals would be ass

[pliant elm]

Yeah, pachys hit each other more in a fight than they hit the people they're attacking xd

[cinder haven]

by the way, I forgot to write the Pachy scandalous hitbox, I should write that too

[pliant elm]

Yes, there are some situations where you clearly hit the body/head but it still doesn't count, But they still leave you stunned for using the headbutt xd

Pachy was forgotten and thrown in the trash after being nerfed in Spiro

I hope there are still changes in pachy and rework in cerato in this hordtest

[cinder haven]

Like Denio

[pliant elm]

Deino the devs said they will improve it, but it may take a long time yet

I honestly didn't see any need to reduce its spin in the water

[cinder haven]

There is only one thing they need to do >:d Being able to make sub-attacks while running and having a bite speed (this was enough for me)

[cinder haven]

They fixed it

[pliant elm]

Was it a bug?

[cinder haven]

No, most people didn't like it so they didn't like it.

[pliant elm]

In my opinion, smaller deinos should be much faster than larger ones both on land and in water. This would make it easier to escape and also help with migration

[cinder haven]

👍🏻

[normal shuttle]

@ancient sphinx you could also just give them bigger debuffs when having a bad diet so they’re encouraged to compete for their food against other herbivores

Their current limitations for plants are good

We just need a reason to give for them to consume half a migration zone

[ancient sphinx]

smart

[normal shuttle]

Since you know

Increasing food value of plants while also increasing hunger drain wouldn’t really solve much

And also people would just keep cuddling in megaherds since they can graze

[calm kelp]

devs need to fix giant fish not floating when killed

[maiden trellis]

I play deino almost exclusively. I think speed is fine, you just have to be more vigilant when you're small to see them first. People swim right down the middle of rivers on top of the water and expect to stay alive as a newborn. That's not feasible in game OR IRL. What they NEED to do is give FG deinos more than one place on the map to see other dinos to eat by some kind of forcing function. I'd suggest removing grazing altogether and make the only way to get full to be in the migration zone, with PZs only offering enough food so as to get herbis enough of a stomach full to get them to the MZ. This movement would make the map seem more alive, eliminate (or at least mitigate) so-called "hot spots", and give carnivores AND herbivores more interaction all over the map.

[pliant elm]

I don't think this is a good idea, especially since migrations are constantly bug

[maiden trellis]

so fix that too?

[pliant elm]

Yes, fixing migrations should be a major focus. In hordtest it's a bit better, still buggy, but better.

[maiden trellis]

I think they need to completely overhaul it. It needs to be a forcing function for herbs to move off of SP...

the reason EVERYONE goes to there is because there's no action anywhere else. I think that's because there's enough food to sustain herbs indefinitely, and so they don't leave, which means if you are a carnivore (especially a croc) it's the only place you have a good chance of encountering non-AI food.

for a Deino it's basically the only place a FG can survive.

If herbs HAD to move around the map (like...if they couldn't just graze to stay alive at fg) you'd see a whole lot more life to the map, and encounters in random places would be MUCH higher. I think this would lead to an overall improvement for everyone instead of the same old thing every time.

I can't tell you how many Deinos I've encountered who were just like, "Yep, just trying to get big enough to go to SP."

And that's because it's literally the ONLY spot with any kind of consistent action.

[pliant elm]

This has already been done in the hordtest

Patrol zones give very little food and diet now

[maiden trellis]

Good. I still think they should eliminate grazing. It'd make herbs feel the squeeze like carnivores do.

I can't say how many times I've rushed into a fight or taken a big chance when my stomach was red that I wouldn't if it were at 1/8 like it is when they can graze.

It makes you move alright.

@hoary storm You're always going to have herbs killing everything; especially stegos, because they can. They get bored because nothing is a challenge anymore once they're fg, so they roam around 1-shotting people to fight boredom.

[vernal jacinth]

There’s always cannis ever since the start of isle

[hoary storm]

Imo stegos are not a big problem cause they slow, and like i said this suggestion is not remedy for all problems, but it will help those hard thinking players that its not designed behavior, if omnis, herreras or trodons want to hunt they need to pack in order to have chances, but they mostly killing eachother for no profit, cause mostly there is enoguh dead bodies for small carnis like them, you can grow 100% on perfect diet just from eating corpses.
Even today i watched 10 herreras running in amok trying to kill each others, just for pvp cause there was plenty of food, there was also plenty of other dinos, but no. They were more willing to fight each other than together hunt something bigger

[rugged plaza]

@cinder haven I made a pachy/fracture rework suggestion, I’d like to know what you think! #balance-feedback message I didn’t include this in there but I agree that pachy should be around 33.5km.

[cinder haven]

✅ good idea

[hoary storm]

8 no's and zero arguments for it,
This mechanic would not affect deino and Cera which are canibals as mented
Rest carnis report constantly about spawnkilling from fg own species. It not affect anyone who plays as his specie is designed too, and also not including fight for teritorry, it just raise consequences, for eating own specie which is accurate to data we have,
The Kuru disease was human reffer
But we have more
Mad Cows disease its also same kind of illnes, by eating own species by animal which is not designed by nature to it.
Hippos have their own also.
Its just a real threat more dangerous than muscle spasms

[hoary storm]

Cause what consequences you get by muscle spasms? You killing your own so you not play in group ,so you will not bite by accident someone. no consequences at all for those who don't care.
Dinos noneless was animals and as them always have reasons for their behaviors Fully belly predator is not willing to attack anyone as its pointless at this moment, there is threat of getting injured and/or tired
You are not hungry so you have no profits from it, it can be hunted tomorrow or even later. Players don't think in animal to grow survive ensure extension of the species. They want frags, numbers to proudly announce even if they don't have scoreboard have literally nothing the satisfaction of hunt and fight is enough, but if you enjoy that you are bigger and can fool babies from your specie to trust you its not okay.
It shows nothing more like one of psychosocial tendencies that is nothing to be proud of

[pliant elm]

@wraith bane Pachy literally gets stunned after using it headbutt bro

[wraith bane]

they can hit you while doing stun animation

[maiden trellis]

I see packs of 10 dibbles and 2 stegos together pretty regularly, just wiping the ground up in SP

[pliant elm]

No, they can't. You must have entered in front while the jump animation was still active

Pachy's headbutt is a jump attack like Omni pounce, as long as he remains in the air the attack is still active

[hoary storm]

I play on restricted servers which is not allowed

[limber hull]

no WAY do you think pachy is OP for its size. It's arguably the weakest animal of its tier by a country mile, it's SO bad. I see them less than dryos nowadays because of how garbage they are

[icy lion]

@ornate spade Spawn codes are in hordetesting

[junior nymph]

@ornate spade HT has spawn codes

[ornate spade]

So they’re coming next patch? Why would they remove spawn locations before that, doesn’t make much sense

[junior nymph]

I mean it made people kinda spread around NE never used to be used before that same with NE sanc and delta

I would rather that than spawning with friends

[ornate spade]

i mean yeah but its kinda aids when youre on with like 2 mates or something and theres always someone who has to kill themselves 3-5 times bc theyy keep spawning swamp or something

[proper bluff]

thats what the spawn codes are for

not yet officially added but on some unofficials you can do such a thing already

[ornate spade]

yeah hopefully they get added soon, i dont have any unofficials in my region that actually get players

[proper bluff]

where do you live then, asia, australia?

[ornate spade]

australia

[zealous fern]

been having good luck finding all the npc animals since the update

except crabs, no luck on crabs yet

[proper bluff]

oh ye then idk if there are any unofficials there, im sorry

[urban flax]

Reptiles and birds typically don't get sick when cannibalizing, it's a mammal thing

[hoary storm]

As far we know
Those who survived have this abbility
But dinozaurs wasn't just reptiles its way older beings called Archozaurus.
We are not able to find proves for both sides.
Only Majungusaurus is objectivly accepted as cannibal but even tho they don't know did they eat each other or only kill.

[urban flax]

Dinosaurs are in-between reptiles and birds
Crocodiles are archosaurs
And they don't suffer from cannibalism either

[hoary storm]

All non bird Dinosaurs are Archozaurus...

[urban flax]

I just checked it, and I was mistaken
Technically, dinosaurs, reptiles and birds are all archosaurs

Anyway cannibalism debuffs in this game are a game feature, they aren't here for realism
And I feel they are sufficient for what their purpose is

[hoary storm]

Imo this mechanic does nothing
It only affects someone who accidently eated meat of his own and now needs to stay away from his pack to not hurt them, but for spawnkillers and other "im friendly" baiters they are not affected at all
They play alone they don't care about biting air... Consequences for them are equal zero

2 times already had a situation where omnis makes a nest to hatch eggs, and then watch them starve to death while joking from it. Toxic behaviors are not punished, so this type of player gathers up.

https://www.salon.com/2023/11/02/dinosaurs-might-have-been-more-cannibalistic-than-previously-thought-study-finds/
One of the newer studys.
Says about the Dinos while Cretaceous extinction becomes more cannibalistic, but not like people think. They just were opportunists and were more scavengers for dead bodies than hunters.

[urban flax]

And making cannibalism debuffs worse still wouldn't affect them ?

The point is not to prevent in-species fighting, it's to force players to hunt other species rather than survive on eating their fallen packmates or just by killing their own

[hoary storm]

If they got vomits or poison it would affect their own dino, its all what they care about, its only thing that can slow down a bit

I suggested making 3 stages of canibal disease
First like it is now
Second to start vomit
Last one would start killing you its a point with no return.

[urban flax]

What if they kill you but then don't eat you
Not affected in the slightest

[hoary storm]

Most people would react to vomits and find out that they did something wrong
If both stages didn't light up your alarm you are just bring doom on your dino

[hoary storm]

This is downside but if you look at this moment Devs mechanic also don't do anything with it, cause Dinos were fighting for females or teritorry so punishing for it would be unfair and just against nature behaviors of those animals.
But mostly they try to get your guts.
So at least greedy one get their face slapped to calm down or face consequences

I wouldn't say i have the perfect solution i just suggest an upgraded version of what we have now to make at least some restriction that you need to have in mind, we have those muscle spasms.. but muscle spasms in cannibalistic behavior are effects of brain damage that affect cannibals provides them to horryfing death

[urban flax]

The reason for cannibalism debuffs isn't to prevent species in-fighting

[hoary storm]

So for what?
They made a mechanic that aimed to punish no cannibalistic carnivores and You say it's not made to prevent cannibalism ?
So for what is this made for ?

[urban flax]

I told you what it's for

The point is not to prevent in-species fighting, it's to force players to hunt other species rather than survive on eating their fallen packmates or just by killing their own

[hoary storm]

So for you fg Carno that won't migrate from Northwest Ridge which is best grow spot for juveniles, just scout it and kill any juveniles that get fooled by proposition of help is the correct behavior that we want in game ?
That in game focused on pack mechanics, hunting together and eventually making a stronger generation to conquer the server with your species...
What you get ?
People who killing their owns for no reason
People who lies and offer help just to kill you
People who hatch from your egg just kill all siblings and log out
Or people who are impostors broadcasting your nest to his friends
And there is plenty of it.
Those behaviors are totally against the nature of animals that we try to recreate ingame, and also disgusting in human society.
There are so many solo fights , many group battles after which people congratulate themselves, better one won and this is how it should look like
Yesterday a guy boasted himself that he have 180 kills and 6 death ratio on server...
Yes cause he won't leaved Water Access and was eating every single croc that spawned
He was the biggest croc in there no threat for him at all. You want to say its okay behavior ?
That one guy block spawn for 3 hours honestly for nothing more than bullying other players, cause he is not able to feed himself on them, its not a viable food enough to survive, its just sadistic satisfaction they get "Im the strongest so i will beat weak ones"
In game or not this type of behavior it's a sociopathic tendency and shouldn't be accepted and allowed to develop more and more.
It's the mindset of those who get bullied in school so they start to bully younger ones, cause even if they know this feeling, even if they know it's wrong, they will do it anyway, its black and white point of view that there are only victims and predators, and you don't want to be victim.

[urban flax]

That's The Isle for you
Also none of that has anything to do with the ability to eat their own species or not

Maybe you'll just like playing on "realism" servers better
Because the official experience isn't about emulating an animal's behavior

[hoary storm]

Im done... Like always people focus on least important find a hole to disgrace the message. Better is trying to dig down the opponent than focus on real problem and solving it. Seriously its hard to agree with the toxicity problem in gaming ? Why are people ready to lie and put everything against just to not say it was wrong.
I don't write anything more its useless, people see the problem and feel it on its own gameplay, but rather do something just choose to join those toxic behaviors

[limber hull]

you dont have to join them tho

[urban flax]

I'm just telling you how it is
PvP games attract toxic people, that's how it is
Every single time.

[hoary storm]

Seriously? This is the solution?
When unacceptable behaviors occur your solution is just leave and go somewhere else? Seriously im done, no hopes for gamers, in our country we say that passiveness is worse than Nazis.
And gamers won't change it with that attitude never, if you always gonna avoid provlem

[hoary storm]

So its like saying
People kills people thats how it is.
You don't see what you are doing here?
You agree that is a problem but refuse to looks for solution just agree with that like it is normal behavior,
When somebody hits you react, if you not react you will become a punching bag. Existing of toxicity problems over the years doesn't allow people to accept it as a crucial part of gaming, no it doesn't its a pathologic in gaming and it has to be torn out every time it's opportunity to do it.
You don't have to look far away
Team Fortress 2 is an example how good community can ride out of toxic players on servers, and this game had enormous problem with it. They did cause they were reacting for every single inappropriate act in their game.
So it is possible, but it needs cooperation... and i hoped that in game focused on cooperation people will be more awared and ready to protest that sort of behavior, but i see that this community doesn't change even a little bit from any typical shooters community. It's just sad, idc anymore just wasted time and money i will not fight for the community that's already given up and accept how it is...

[urban flax]

I think you're extrapolating a lot over a cannibalism debuff

If there is an actual solution I'd like to hear it

But in the meantime I advise on going to play on "realism" servers, which have moderation to enforce certain rules

[normal shuttle]

@proper bluff bro what 😭 dont listen to summit

[limber hull]

or nickboay because he also wants that LMAO

[normal shuttle]

lmaoooo

yeah, terrible takes from clueless players

[proper bluff]

If you're talking about my stego suggestion, i dont know who summit is, a youtuber? Twitch streamer? Im deadass serious rn that was my legit thought

[proper bluff]

That is a good take because that attack deals way to much damage, it was meant to be a defence from bigger carnivores but they added it way before rex was added to the hordetest

[normal shuttle]

yeah, famous streamer who got super mad at the game because ceras cant take on stegs reliably

[proper bluff]

I did write sth about stegos vs ceras earlier, it is possible but like why do it. What im trying to say is that this attack deals too much damage, yes stego has a spiked tail but come on, 1,500 damage? What the actual f

If not make it drain stam then atleast nerf the damage a bit, not insanely much

[limber hull]

they did nerf the damage

also, it takes an INSANE amount of stam to use the powerswing

AND stego will likely need BUFFS, not nerfs, with the arrival of rex next update

a nerf is the last thing stego needs rn tbh

[normal shuttle]

true

in fact I think power swing is a must for it

imagine no power swing against dibbles or ceras

100 times harder to survive

[limber hull]

powerswing was necessary for apex scaling, or simply the growing roster

as more animals are added, stego's cracks began to show

[normal shuttle]

non powerswing stego only thrived when it had to worry about omnis and carnos 💔

[woeful latch]

yeah

[limber hull]

powerswing helped it actually return to relevacy, because honestly i think it'd be extinct without it

dibble would just immediately wipe it off the map and establish itself as the dominant animal

there's no wonder powerswing was added in the same time as things like dibble and grapple

[rotund fractal]

#general-feedback message That give me "turn The Isle into Battlefield" vibes. I understand the idea behind it, but honestly, you can just claim a piece of land as a dino, without any features, and I would perhaps prefer to add a feature that allows you to mark your territory as a group, which other dinosaurs can then see as a warning, but dividing everything beyond that into zones with a map, where everyone of their species can occupy a zone as their territory, that's just too much of a good thing, after all, this is supposed to remain a survival game and not a territory conquest game.

[thick summit]

Ceras aren't too problematic

But dibble can already beat up a stego with power swing

Stego would literally die with a cooldown

[normal shuttle]

Nah if they could survive a body shot alt and then gastro they would be a big problem

Also because alts are far slower than power swing

[thick summit]

Stego did well against ceras in update 6.5

So I doubt ceras would be much of an issue

Dibble would demolish the poor thing

[limber hull]

Cera wasn't as strong as it is now tbf

Cera got a lot of small buffs over time to compensate for the fact carno devoured it

[ashen shell]

#general-feedback message

don't herbivores irl usually eat a ton of plants like every second of the day because they don't get nutrition from it

[minor field]

Well infinite vomit lock was a thing back then and cera vomited stego in 5 bites so honestly not really

[gritty heart]

Depends largely on the herbivore and the plants they eat.

But yes, herbivores spend a lot more time on average eating then carnivores.

[tranquil light]

Do you plan to do something about the cheaters that have increased so much in the last 1-2 months or are you going to alienate us from this game and send us to other games of the same genre?

[hollow flume]

@tepid shell do you not understand how hacking works?

If multi million dollar dev teams can't stop hackers what makes you think this dev team can? Also what's preventing you from taking some steps yourself? Playing on unofficial servers with active admins?

[hollow flume]

So you can get hacked on there too?

[tranquil light]

?

[normal shuttle]

Guh?

Devs have been working on that and with results as many previous cheats just ceased existing for the most part

And they are still trying to deal with hackers

It is something complicated yknow? Not like they’re just sitting there doing nothing.

Also I just saw the message is copy pasted 💀 rage ig

[tranquil light]

Hahahaha

u are so funny child

i hope they give you a job

its ridiculous that you're explaining something that already needs to be done as if they're doing it to give it to you as a gift

development is being done but cheaters should not play for hours on the same servers despite being reported in the same area 😄

[plucky plank]

I... Don't even have an idea of what it is you think you're replying to with that one.

[tranquil silo]

The devs are working on the game, and trying to deal with cheaters, give them time and they'll give you something you'd love to play. Complaining in a way thats argumentative makes the devs feel alienated from their community and less likely to interact and even less likely to read feedback. But the devs are doing good with evirma just give them time. It'll be sorted. Not everyone will be happy but it'll be sorted.

[tranquil light]

I have been sending reports and videos for the issue I have been experiencing for days. The same cheaters have been playing in the same areas for days and when I say this, people say that the staff is working hard and trying to improve the game and they make it sound like it's a favor or a gift for us. Yes, I know that but it's something they should be doing anyway and we're having recurring issues here.
you are paying for this game. You are giving hours to the game and you are choosing this game when there are other options. Although there are many servers, you are choosing the official server because it is the game's own main server. Cheaters should not hang around here for hours during the day and there should not be so many of them. We are playing on the main server of the game, not on a private server. What you wrote is not a special privilege for us, they should do it anyway. These need to be fixed. Reported cheaters should not cheat for hours

[vernal jacinth]

You’ve already made this whole argument down in #evrima-eu…

[icy lion]

I don't see a single report in your message history. You can check the pinned messages in #evrima-eu to see how to make a report

[tranquil light]

KEIC9 He contacted the admins during the day and sent the necessary videos. 10+ people in the same area sent reports, please check them as well, I understand that the checks have finally starteddd

[tepid shell]

I wasn't looking for anyone's opinion

[hollow flume]

It's not an opinion. It's literally how it works lol. Learn a bit before you talk

[normal shuttle]

dude

stop being mad, your anecdote doesn't dictate how the world works around you

and even if reports are successful, you won't know

admins are doing their part and so are the devs

if you cannot have enough patience or simply understanding for the fact that this isn't as quick and simple as flicking a switch, then that's on you

[tepid shell]

why are you attacking me so much lol?? All I basically said was complaining about cheaters, and that admins should deal with them more. I wasn't tryna say that they AREN'T doing anything, I was just saying that there's been more and more hackers recently and I complained about it. I'm sorry if I offended you in any way

[normal shuttle]

I get why it can be frustrating

[hollow flume]

Wasn't offended. But if this is how we carry on the discussion then have a good day

[normal shuttle]

but admins are just volunteers and still (likely) doing their best

and devs have this as their job

no one wants hackers, it's just a very complicated and nuanced issue

[tepid shell]

okay, well I'm glad I didn't offend you. Also yea you have a good day as well

[dawn hound]

#general-feedback message @cinder haven Im sorry by pinging you, but I really dont get why we should get a buff for pachy, and I dont know what you mean by looking at carnotaurus.

I highly agree with 4

but I dont know about 3 either

[cinder haven]

There are very few pachy players and I want a buff because it's a bit pointless to play.

[dawn hound]

Pachy is ment to take a quite skill to play, and if played really well, it can take down a dilophosaurus. What I believe it should have a strong side on would definitely be its resistance against fractures and bleeding. Other than that, def not in damage.

pachy needs slight speed too, yes

[cinder haven]

pachy can be strong in a group but he needs to find a group and play that group flawlessly (this is a bit unlikely and hard to find that many players)

I didn't want a damage buff, just giving us the right to stun 3 times when the bones are broken would be nice and logical (stunting is fun)

[dawn hound]

my bad

also I dont get what you mean by carno buff.

or, my bad, what u mean by the devs taking a look at it

[cinder haven]

In my opinion, it should be 1,800 tons directly, BUT there is a lot of arguing on both sides (we usually win). In short, we only need a canro buff. I left it blank so that the producers can decide which buff to get.

[cinder haven]

go to the top there is Carno fead back and it is a very reasonable article (I think it got 72 votes) and before this I had many feedad back posts but they did not accept any of them but tics were always superior

[cinder haven]

here

[dawn hound]

I dont really agree to it being brought back. I get your idea of population control, but carno is just not made for it. Carno is ment to hunt small tiers or mid tiers if it has more skill. What I think would be really great for the carno though, would be to kinda remove the ''ram into big things and you get yourself stunned'', and improve it in a way where it actually deals damage to the target, and if hit from the right angle could actually deal damage to the target without making the carno itself stunned.

but if the carno just rams into it headfirst, it will get punished

[cinder haven]

Carno was created for this. I remember it like yesterday when it was 1,800 kg and it was very good.

[hollow flume]

So it could use a buff 😂

[dawn hound]

for example, it would rather penetrate big things like stego if it gets hit from the side

[hollow flume]

So make it weigh 1800 but let's nerf it's busted hitbox?

[dawn hound]

yes, definitely not in strenght, but in speed as he mentioned, and in resistance factors.

[cinder haven]

There is nothing about hitbox (there is a broken hitbox, it should be fixed anyway)

[cinder haven]

Anyways the population of allo and trex will get out of control they are both very fast dinosaurs and we can't catch them so they will reproduce a lot and for about three months the whole server will play trex and allo but if Carno reaches its old power and speed the population balance will be restored

[dawn hound]

I have an idea for rex buff to be good instead of restoring it into a stegosaurus killer

[cinder haven]

I will kill Trex easily as a stego (I think)

[dawn hound]

In this example, we can see two carnotaurs. Number 1 and Number 2. Carnotaurus number 1 is going to sord of skim on the hitbox of a stego, as shown in the picture, doesnt get stunned, and damages the target. Carnotaurus number 2 on the other hand ramming it directly face first, and as a result, which is not shown in the picture, it gets stunned, just like in the game right now.

[cinder haven]

So if they hit Carno Stego in the head, will they stun him?

[dawn hound]

if a carno hits stego facefirst into its side, it will get stunned, but if it is done in a way where its not going facefirst and rather in a way where it skims on the stego, it will damage it

[cinder haven]

Actually wouldn't that be a bit strange, even if it's 1,300 or 1,800 carno and the stego hits it, it should be stunned because the stego has very thick skin

[dawn hound]

keep in mind that carnotaurus overall is a juvie killer

only packs or skilled ones can take on stuff like maia

[dawn hound]

its not about skin, its about its weigh and toughness

[cinder haven]

It wasn't like that before 😒 (we don't need this)

Anyway, this idea may not work. ✅

[dawn hound]

I dont know if i remember well, but carnotaurus was a stego killer back in the day. If you are just gonna bring back the old weigh, and its old capabilities, it is just not gonna be fair. Many people say buff carno and pachy, but they dont realise how actually really good they can be if you can play them very well.

[cinder haven]

I'll write an explanation later, I'm busy right now (yes, I killed Stego too, Canro, if it's clear before, I'll explain later)

[dawn hound]

okay

[pliant elm]

@copper sparrow The only change Carno needs in his charge is to reduce his hitbox a little, nothing more than that

[idle echo]

this is ridiculous

[inland vigil]

#general-feedback message this isn't how fall damage works and there is scaling based on weight

Meaning you should consistently take MORE damage as you grow ...

[hollow flume]

Things in game don't have thick skin. It's programmed to be resistant. This is a video game

@cinder mauve can you explain the reasoning why someone would assume you can fall further without losing hp when you are big dino with tons of weight? Compared to juvie dino with little weight?

[gilded drift]

should they make quetz as tall as it was IRL?

[cyan flame]

Depends, is there any reason they shouldn't?

[cinder mauve]

Generally, across all species, as you grow, (until you reach an elder state) the distance upon which you can fall only increases until you reach your prime. goats, bears, humans. ect. If you are a child and weigh 60 pounds a 10 foot drop can break your legs when you land on them. If you are an adult weighing 160 pounds, assuming you are healthy, you will not get hurt at all upon landing. One's bone mass does make a difference.

That is not the point though: The distance upon which you can fall never changes.
If you have 1000+ hours, like I do, than you will know what a problem fall damage is.

You will have died more to fall damage than anything else, unless you are going out of your way to starve or fight dinos you know you can't beat.

along with the "encounter ratio" of other dinos, this is a core issue.
Nearly every serious player has died to fall damage when they shouldnt have

[icy lion]

@wheat drift It's a bug, the bushes aren't supposed to make sound if there's no movement in them

[compact sequoia]

@boreal thorn there used to be this..... I don't know why they removed it....they should add it back

[boreal thorn]

y

@compact sequoia nice suggestion but bones can be eaten by any animals. we dont vomit by eating rocks, we just discharge them since they dont come from any organisms. bone is an organic material and can be digested

[hollow flume]

Ok fair point. I just immediately assumed fall damage was worse the more you weighed. Especially since we have sound queues like the thud when you move as a big dino

[hollow flume]

I think your points are still really debatable. I don't think it really matters when talking about a game. I do agree fall damage is a little scuffed.

[compact sequoia]

actually not....like big to medium dino bone cannot be digested or broken easily.....you have to have strong acid in digestion ....deino cera vulture etc only possess....giga spino rex also etc

[compact sequoia]

also gastro are very small rocks actually

[boreal thorn]

bones currently gives little to no food depending on your size. its more realistic to say that most of it doesnt gets digested correctly

also ceras and deinos gets diet out of it, unlike other carnivores

[compact sequoia]

it should not be eaten....if you eat goat etc bone as a human you will suffer bloating or other serious issues such as raptor carno etc should not consume them ....they will not dissolve in weak acid actually

[hollow flume]

You know what their stomach acid was like millions of years ago?

[compact sequoia]

it is estimated and studied as only certain dinos ate only certain things and fossils recovered from their nest areas indicate what they preferred to eat

[cinder mauve]

You bring up a good point too. tonnage does make a difference. I would assume a full grown elephant is going to get pretty hurt if it falls over, compared to baby elephant.

I would agree that the heavier you are the more its going to hurt when you fall. I would say that is realism over fun though, which can be good or bad from person t o person.

I would like to see fun over realism when it comes to fall damage currently. I think we can all agree its not fun dying to "fall damage" when you get a bit of air on a small hill while running.

That being said, currently fall damage is neither based in realism or fun, imo.
Dinos have odd fall distances before they take damage. Crocs can survive crazy drops and they are one of the heavies

[boreal thorn]

we are omnivores. our acid is similar to carnivores but not as strong. carnivores (not including insectivores) can disolve bones rather efficiently

[hollow flume]

I don't buy it

[boreal thorn]

it is a fact that carnivores have a rather strong acidic composure to help with extracting nutrients from meat. herbivores has evolved to reduce that since they dont eat meat. thus natural selection pushed them to reduce that acid's strenght

[boreal thorn]

doesnt really suggest that they couldnt digest bone

its 100% sure carnivore dinosaurs have strong acids its an unwritten rule amongst animals

[hollow flume]

Good points overall. I agree 👍 I've definitely died to fall damage more than I wanted to lmao

[boreal thorn]

small scavengers has a ph of around 1 which is already very acidic for their size while bigger carnivores and omnivores has around 1.5, literally around the ph of a car battery's acid

[gilded drift]

@blissful igloo no thanks.

how would you make it more visible?

[gilded drift]

this is why we need quetz

to decrease deino pop

because more deinos would choose to play quetz instead of deino

[woven bane]

#general-feedback message why would u think that

trike is actively being tested on HT and rex is right behind the corner

[gilded drift]

yeah ofc not

but deino mains will become quetz mains just due to its size

[faint folio]

Part of the problem is that the game isn't realistic with falls. It's fairly common to have a bugs bunny style fall where you run straight off a gently sloping hill... And then fall and die. But no animal irl does that on hills unless they jump. It's like the game's gravity isn't strong enough

I don't mind the deaths where I legitimately did not see a cliff and ran off it and fell

But I do very much mind when there's just a smooth slope and my dinosaur skips over it rather than running down it as in reality

[gritty heart]

The problem tbh is more so how easy it is to trigger an annoying slide/fly, rather than the raw damage (though sometime it is a little silly)

[limber hull]

yea and everyone else will be screwed. Balancing carnotaurus around two of the game's largest predators as a small game hunter is a very bizarre choice I'll be real. That suggested carno buff would mean teno and cera are basically dead meat

[cinder haven]

As a teno, I am not afraid of the canro I recommend, I knew how to kill them 1v2 and I can kill them again.

Also, the current cera 1v1 can kill the carno I defend

[limber hull]

that was old carno. this new carno you suggested is far scarier

[cinder haven]

Stun throw refresh every 10 seconds and while running he will not run forever, the stun duration ends after 5-6 seconds as it is from minus

Do I have to write down every detail?

[limber hull]

given that it has our current carno's charge, it's an absolute terror

[cinder haven]

Current Canro is useless weak

[limber hull]

it is absolutely not

and if you think that, you don't know how to play it at all

[cinder haven]

Not my style

[limber hull]

balancing it around rex and allo is fundamentally a mistake

it should be balanced around its own actual prey

[cinder haven]

Okay, I passed Trex, so who will kill Allo? Teno can't kill, Cera can't kill, Dilo Utah can maybe kill. When Allo comes to the game, there will be a population explosion and we don't have any dinosaurs that can stop it.

We'll jump on everyone so we don't leave any dinosaurs on the island. Hello, we need a dinosaur that can kill.

[limber hull]

dibble, i would assume

deino too

and stego

[cinder haven]

Now no sucker player diablo dies we run away when we get it hard and you can't kill him just diablo is not enough

[limber hull]

also rex

[cinder haven]

Kisme Denio never dies, yes Stego can kill but that's still not enough.

no one is stupid enough to die to denio or rex (maybe new players)

[limber hull]

so carno should never die to anything by this logic because carno can outrun literally everything

if you think carno is garbage bad, yet think allo being able to run away from things makes it unkillable, that's a very bizarre contradiction

[cinder haven]

hello yes iblicek I have three potential dinosaurs I have sub rex stego daiblo three is not enough (I am not counting Dillo and Utah they need to play at a very high level)

[limber hull]

also calling people stupid for dying to rex despite not knowing anything about how rex plays is rather strange lol

[cinder haven]

I wouldn't die for Rex assuming he's very big and makes a lot of booming noises

Sub Rex is not included, I think they are something completely different

[cinder haven]

They used to die

[cinder haven]

Who do you think would win if Rex and Stego went 1v1? What do you think?

[faint folio]

There will be more, but they have to start somewhere. By this logic, none of the apexes could ever be introduced because only 1 other dino would be able to kill them.

[cinder haven]

https://tenor.com/view/shoryuken-dinosaur-the-isle-physics-old-version-gif-14798209

[faint folio]

It's either that, or hold allo, trike, and rex back from release despite being finished until you have 4-5 other dinosaurs in the same power class done as well

[torn abyss]

Sorry to bother but <@&933486433342222376> how regularly do you guys check staff applications?
Feel free to ping me in your response.

[terse hornet]

You want to fill out the moderator application form at the bottom of #rules-and-info
If you already have, you can dm dev punchpacket asking about the status of your application/if applications are currently being looked at.
Don't be afraid to bump your message if you don't get a response after a few days he gets alot of dms and they can fall off

[torn abyss]

Tysm! Yeah I submitted one a while ago and never got a response so I submitted a fresh one. I’ll definitely reach out in a few days then 🥰
Tysm!!

[latent olive]

@proper bluff the weird sheen/shine on the playables is a bug from UE5 that keeps coming back despite the devs fixing it constantly

[gray bison]

i aint, unless food is as scarce then as it is now

its really, really scarce considering fish nerfs and new waterways that sorta stop you from getting prey anymore

[crisp dove]

Food is often scarce

[edgy harbor]

I check them pretty regularly for context

Late reply nb

Mb

[limber hull]

#general-feedback message
"make carno OP because I don't like cera and stego and want carno to be dominant instead"

that's not how you balance games lol

[plucky plank]

#general-feedback message

I see this mentioned a lot- people getting sick from cannibalism is not actually automatic. The problem is if a human consumes a brain infected with certain prions found in the brain and CSF (Cerebral/Spinal Fluid) of infected individuals. Years after infection the symptoms start to show as muscle spasms, bursts of laughter and eventually death as the proteins in your brain are essentially converted into more prion proteins.

That's dumbing it down, but essentially what's going on there.

In short, cannibalism is not inherently dangerous- just avoid eating the brain and the danger is reduced to the usual "Has this meat spoiled yet?".

[limber hull]

also carno in HT is excellent at controlling the juvi apex population, if you bothered to actually play it rather than reminiscing about a long gone 1800kg carno that provably didn't work well during its entire existence

[plucky plank]

I feel a lot of 'bring x back' posts can be translated to "I don't like change" xD

[limber hull]

also the "small game hunter" lore is not something that the playerbase pushed, it's been the devs goal for the animal since day one of EVRIMA

[compact sequoia]

its not op...1.8 carno is just a little bigger dino.... when apex drops it is not going to op anymore.....cera still be op....stego will be balenced

[compact sequoia]

it wasn't... otherwise 1.8 tons would not be realised....it got morphed slowly

[barren crater]

Can you balance a 1.8t carno? Yes. Will it get a size increase? unlikely.

Imo they should just focus on buffing its CC and it's fine

[compact sequoia]

its pretty big already
...just needs to have that thicker neck....it's already in the correct length

[proper bluff]

it was like acc big before now its basically rugops

idk why they nerfed carno so bad tbh

yes ik it was so that more ppl would play cera or sth but players already did play smaller dinos even before carno was nerfed and noone complained about it (as far as im aware)

[limber hull]

it was. ever since the concept art, carno has been described as a small game hunter

it got morphed slowly because the devs kept realising their 1.8 ton carno wasn't fit for the job

[limber hull]

because it wasn't fulfilling its job. Now, on the Horde Test, carno is in one of the most balanced states it has ever been and is an INSANELY scary thing to be hunted by as a small creature

if you need CARNO to deal with apexes, you clearly misunderstand its purpose in the ecosystem

[lilac bolt]

would it be a bad idea to make carno's charge manual instead of automatic?

[proper bluff]

i dont mean this

[proper bluff]

it was definitely fullfiling his job. it could hunt small tiers consistently, while also control the population of ceras and stegos (to some stage ofc) and now ceras are like a plague, literally everywhere while carnos have to stay in shade. i didnt play carno on the ht yet, what did they change for him?

[barren crater]

it would be perfect

[compact sequoia]

it was and it can....irl also it is...apex juvi balencer....irl carno hunt small sauropods juvi....legacy it was great allo , giga controller etc....evirma it was great before and there was no cera problem then because of this

[barren crater]

Carno just needs its cc to come out quicker and it would be a big enough threat for cera and anything in its stagger/knockdown range

[compact sequoia]

cc?

[barren crater]

Crowd control. Staggers/stuns and knockdowns

[compact sequoia]

it will come are you sure ?

[barren crater]

No. I just said it needs it

[compact sequoia]

i think all carnivorous dinos need omnis complete pin of small dinos ....dinos used their foot to hold smaller dinos than them and keep biting them....only omnis got this ability

[limber hull]

bleeds less, grows faster, turns faster, has more stamina

basically it's one of the best endurance predators in the game now

also buffing carno to compensate for cera being OP just makes two things OP

it doesn't DO anything about cera, it just invalidates more of the roster in comparison

[compact sequoia]

cera op because of uncontrolled vomit mechanism and the stun while vomiting

[limber hull]

i'd argue the charge bite is more glaringly problematic than either of those two things

[compact sequoia]

The carnos pack gets killed by dillo packs....it's so nerfed....unless fighting in a full plain area where charge would not result in fall death

[limber hull]

honestly if you're losing carno packs to dilo packs that has nothing to do with carno's "nerfs" and more to do with a colossal skill issue because carnos can EASILY dispatch of dilos

[compact sequoia]

you really hate carnos...lol....u sure charge the mechanic over vomit lol

[compact sequoia]

6 vs 3 in a hilly area is not cool

carnos charge needs plain areas ... otherwise dino will jump to death

[limber hull]

what? the charge bite is insanely strong on cera what does that have to do with carno at all

[compact sequoia]

u can defend against charge by using a tree....cera vomit is one bite....you can deliver 3 when dino stun...you can track and kill....cera main keep on charging...that's why they lose their chance.....where as carno deals no bleed in charge....also biteforce is less than cera...and you have to keep charging

[limber hull]

okay so you completely misunderstood what i said

i'm not talking about carno charge, i am talking about cera's charged bite

i think carno's charge is entirely fine

[compact sequoia]

carno buff has no relation to cera being op...its just general balance

[limber hull]

?????

idk what ur on about

[compact sequoia]

cera will be op even if rex drops

[limber hull]

yes, i know

cera will be OP even if carno is 1800kg

its not carno's job to be OP just because cera is OP

just nerf the cerato

[compact sequoia]

nerf cera vomit

[limber hull]

carno is in a good place atm on horde test. it doesn't need any more sweeping changes

[compact sequoia]

otherwise dino is ok

[limber hull]

i dont think cera vomit is its biggest issue tho, at all

i'd argue nerf the charged bite first

[compact sequoia]

lol....i have killed so many stegos just by vomit inducing bite....and keep it tracking.....thats op....

[woeful latch]

i’d say remove the vomit animation lock and slower the cera down while it’s using its charge and i’m good with it

[bleak vapor]

https://www.reddit.com/r/theisle/s/G3LmvH5GzE

What do you guys think of this?

[compact sequoia]

not cool

[bleak vapor]

why is that?

[compact sequoia]

Herbis has less player count as gameplay is boring and dull....wait till therozino etc are added....mix packing should be discouraged herbi or carni.....even without proper communication herbis mix pack....north lake east generally has a large mix packing herbivores every time

[bleak vapor]

That is exactly what that suggestion encourages against.

[compact sequoia]

herbis fight for food

[bleak vapor]

Yes, but they currently do not have to because Patrol Zones are plentiful and about every area has 2-4 different spawnable patrol zones.

Migration zones and a stricter diet would increase competition between herbivores.

Thus, discouraging herbivores teaming up, and the lack of diet food would force more stress under them. Making the game more competitive, and less dull.

[compact sequoia]

herbis actually should not fight for food....wait till the apex arrive..

[untold geyser]

herbis actually should fight for food!

[woeful latch]

real

[lilac bolt]

that at the very least gives them something to do

[compact sequoia]

i know stego is op..dibble to....but when rex etc arrive things going to get much tough for them

they should instead fight for food enhancing their growth rate

[untold geyser]

Otherwise, there is no need for them to ever fight each other, and it becomes a very "us vs them" thing. Carnivores vs Herbivores is a lot less engaging than everyone vs everyone.

[bleak vapor]

Exactly, I feel like that is the current BIG gap in Evrima, much bigger of a gap than the lack of a true apex carnivore even.

Not that I am against Rex and Trike, they are good additions, but they won’t solve this void by themselves

[compact sequoia]

mix packing should be discouraged but by starving herbis would be real bad

[bleak vapor]

They never starve because grazing, competing is optional.

[untold geyser]

Dibble yes, but stego isn't op. Just added to the roster at the wrong time.

[compact sequoia]

stego has no predator... except a cera pack

[bleak vapor]

Did you give it a read? @untold geyser Id like to hear your thoughts too!

[sudden tapir]

[compact sequoia]

dibble is if you are solo raptor or dillo

[sudden tapir]

This looks like my type of conversation.

[untold geyser]

This is how it should be, yes.

It will have predators in the future however.

[compact sequoia]

rex giga allo etc will balence stego

[untold geyser]

I didn't..

[untold geyser]

it is balanced

[bleak vapor]

Give it a go, I believe a lot in it

You seem like you would like it

[untold geyser]

rex, giga etc will simply be able to fight it without dying immediately

[sudden tapir]

Anyone know the character limit on Reddit replies?

[compact sequoia]

yes

herbi problem will be solved by apexes actually

[sudden tapir]

How?

[untold geyser]

what problem.....

[compact sequoia]

herbi chill life of stego

[lilac bolt]

from what i looked up right now 10,000 characters it seems

[bleak vapor]

You guys tend to prefer discussing single dinosaur species roles rather than the actual game dynamics.

What will truly make this game superb isn’t adding another species, but building a self fulfilling balance and encouraging satisfying gameplay for all players!

[compact sequoia]

he is trying to address the herbi mix pack and dull gameplay of stego , and dibble etc.....but in the way of food competition.....apex will solve it....and they should compete for food enhancing growth rate as juvi herbis are easy prey

[bleak vapor]

Little it matters if Stego is OP right now or not, it’s a slow meat ball, almost no one can bear to play it for too long. If we had a proper small tier ecosystem, the game would feel like it has 1/3 more things to do!

[frank tapir]

just wait until you see shant, or basically all of the sauropods

[compact sequoia]

game just added lot big herbis without any solo predator....rex will solve problems, giga spino allo will complete the game

[sudden tapir]

Herbivores suffer because of the ecosystem dependancies (or rather lack of dependancy) between carnivores and herbivores. At the moment, carnivores simply do not need herbivores to survive, they are entirely self reliant and can easily stay alive off the AI, or if they are feeling adventurous or don't know how to find AI... just hunting other Carnivores, with absolutely no penalty.

There is no reason to engage with the Migrations, Patrols, or any other zoning mechanic since there is far more food security to be had within the pre-existing hotspots. Herbivores also are just generally less fun since the zoning mechanics are cannibalizing eachother, the spawning system fails to send a clear message on where you need to be. Food inconsistency is rampant even within the zones that are supposed to be your guaranteed food source, and you have near zero consistent interaction with the 75% of the server since they just don't want to bother with your inconsistent ass.

Adding an Apex into the mix will not solve the issue in any shape or form, especially on the carnivore side of things. Why would I, a Rex, who is slow as hell, and only has limited patience and hunger, bother with the inconsistent Migrations or Patrols, when I can just hang around any of the core hotspots and eat other rexes via the cannibal mutation, or just any other poor carnivore or AI that crosses my path.

It is simply safer, more consistent, and gives more constant action to remain within the player driven battle royale cycle that is always raging. Herbivores, especially apexes, as a result are driven into the state of being dreadfully boring. Due to lack of internal or external survival pressure, you just get to sit in a corner and grow with no resistance, or engage with the MZ and PZ and potentially grow a little faster. You won't die, you won't even be challenged a single time if you remain within your server determined destinations. Instead it'll be the most mind numbingly boring experience you can possible conceive in this type of game.

But ah... that's just kinda the way it is.

Alright I'll go ahead and read his reddit post now brb.

[woeful latch]

https://tenor.com/view/look-up-scared-willem-dafoe-gif-17761333

[sudden tapir]

Just post an "Ok Hacker" gif and be done with it.

[bleak vapor]

Beautifully said.

[woeful latch]

lmaooo

[lilac bolt]

some very good points said very nice

[bleak vapor]

I agree with most points.

[untold geyser]

Definitely moving in the right direction I'd say.. maybe a bit of mechanical overkill in some regards, and I don't agree with completely splitting tiny and small tiers off from the rest of the island ecosystem. Instead of completely separating them, I think it is more important for them to be fun, enjoyable, and carry some noticeable weight in the environment.
The tiny and small tier should be somewhat isolated, (with exceptions for those who punch up, i.e. troodon) but without completely segregating them physically. What I'm saying is, a homalocephale can live in the same area as an allosaurus. The allo does not have any reason to hunt the homalo, due to the extremely low return it would get. Incentivizing the larger tiers to interact in their sphere, and deincentivizing hunting of the tiers far below it would be more healthy for our lovely lovely small tiers.
They get to interact with their row on the food web, and just above it, but not too far up, while also not feeling like they're being isolated and playing a completely different game, which would be the problem with introducing fully aquatic animals to Gateway.
my name is xenon

[bleak vapor]

Although I don’t believe herbivores should be necessarily made more weak.

What I believe is, Herbivores need to have a harder time growing.

More herbivores competing for resources>Less FG herbivores and more herbivores players, since it is more fun and dynamic to play> More viable herbivores to hunt for carnivores

[bleak vapor]

I didn’t suggest they be cut off from the rest of the map, this isn’t a sanctuary ordeal.

[untold geyser]

Sorry, that's what it seemed like you were saying

Especially when I see this

Those small ecosystems could feel like an entire world on its own

[bleak vapor]

No problem, but It’s more of an idea of being unviable for bigger animals to play there. Why is the swamps empty? Because it is awful to traverse for most species, no one wants to play there, now we can redesign the thing to be just not optimal for the bigger things to be there, specially the ones that don’t jump.

Imagine a set of one bigger island, and 4 smaller ones surrounded by swamp and mangrooves. The middle of the big island has an open area, but much of is surrounded by tight trees and mangroove breathing branches, rocks and overall great places for small critter to run from something big

[untold geyser]

hm, maybe.

[bleak vapor]

Spawns: Beipis, Austros, Hypsis, Pteras, Deinos, Dryos, Troodons, Raptors and maybe Pachys

Herras would love there, but they don’t spawn in the area exactly so they can make it there but its at their own risk

because I feel like herras would be the apex there for sure, but once Hypsis climb trees maybe they can counter that a bit?

It would be awesome if 70 in a 200ppl server were playing small tiers, those islands could host upwards of 40 players having fun with all sorts of small tiers there

Lots of walkable tree branches and little caves too

You could try to emulate a single big similar island in Delta too, or turn the volcano cave into something similar

eventually small tiers would leave the area looking for fun at the rest of the map

[limber hull]

removing patrol zones is an awful idea i'mma be real. that'll only compound the lack of herbi players because being forced into migrations was woefully dull

patrol zones need a rework, not a removal. Have them spawn AWAY from the herbivore, not on top of it, and force them to actually PATROL to make that happen

[untold geyser]

yeah, forgot to mention that.
Our current patrol zones are placeholders, and will have a different purpose in the future.

[limber hull]

i think going nuclear on the migration system is going to only harm the herbivore enjoyability. I like exploring the map. I despise being forced into the same 3 places. I do not care if you force me to walk across the entire map as long as the endgoal is somewhere new and not the same 3 MZs

I need diversity otherwise I'm just going to play carnivore, because AI can spawn anywhere

[woeful latch]

i agree

[bleak vapor]

Well, the MZ would essentially be a map exploration, it wouldn’t be meant to be a set of 3 areas.

and it doesn’t FORCE you to go there, it’s just the optimal gameplay. Its where most players will eventually go to.

[limber hull]

both of those statements are untrue for how MZ currently works

[bleak vapor]

as far as I know they dont work at all, or it might just be the unofficials I play at. Food doesnt spawn at them in Petit Pieds and Islander

What about the dietary variety?

Does anyone like the idea of not all herbivores eating the very same plants?

[untold geyser]

they work on officials, and petits

[woeful latch]

anything in your pz or mz is automatically on your diet which is good

[urban flax]

Herbivores do not even have diets rn

[untold geyser]

clarify..

[urban flax]

Their diet is entirely dependent on what their MZ and PZ currently is
It changes all the time

[limber hull]

they dont. the food you eat depends on your migration/patrol zone

[untold geyser]

I see

[urban flax]

Some herbivores have some specific plants that never appear on their diet list, but that's all

[sudden tapir]

Gonna be taking notes as I read through it.

First off, mentioning PP as a reference point is a little odd to me, since I don't think that makes a good blueprint for an engaging player driven ecosystem. Realism can be used as an inspiration, not as a direct reference to create an engaging survival game. But regardless... it doesn't matter.

Yes, there is a gross carnivore overpopulation, but I believe you misattributed the cause of this disparity between the niches. Herbivores and Omnivores are not fun enough... sure, but that doesn't really answer the Carnivore side of the problem, and as you admit, they are the majority of the population, so you should be looking at them for the root of the issue through their behavior. Don't look at it as "Herbivores and Omnivores are not fun" and instead view it through the lense of "Why the hell don't Carnivores care that Herbivores are practically going extinct."

The simple answer is, they don't need to.

As mentioned previously, Carnivores exist in their own bubble. In order to solve that core issue with the game, you need to pop that bubble. This needs be done by adjusting how Carnivores obtain resources necessary for survival, and how Herbivores engage directly with the world. There are two sides of the coin, and the job of the game designer is to ensure that both halves are needed to create a complete experience. Skimming through the rest of your post, it seems you completely ignore the carnivore dependancy issues that are causing most of the herbivore issues. Instead you focus strictly on the Herbivore half of the equation.

But again, moving on-

On the topic of herbivores needing to feel more survival pressure... I feel like you're once again missing the very obvious point. Their survival challenge naturally comes from the pressure of the carnivore population. Right now, they simply are not being hunted, because the zoning mechanics are not functioning to create interactions between the two halves. I agree with the final verdict that Patrol Zones are an issue to be confronted, either by adjusting or removing them.. but you seem to have come to that conclusion with the wrong line of reasoning. It is not the lack of competition or food scarcity, the problem is that the zoning system to drive player engagement fails to create meaningful or consistent player interaction.

It is well known that Migration Zones fail to properly sustain large herds of herbivores, or even any consistent population greater than roughly 8 people. Which is simply not enough to motivate carnivore players to actually move in.

To interject my own point here, a core issue here is also the inconsistent messaging from the game on where a player should be at any given time. You do not spawn in a Migration zone, or a sanctuary when you first spawn in. Instead, you are just dropped in the middle of nowhere, with only a single icon on your scent telling you where food might be, and shortly after, some eyeballs that encourage you to hunker down and stay isolated. If, instead, players were spawned directly into the Migration cycle, with no further distractions like PZs, and the Migrations allowed for consistent activity of both carnivores and herbivores, we would have a near fully functioning system on our hands... with the still glaring issue of Carnivores having no real reason to care.

On the point made in 1.2-

Yes, species are just thrown together at random, the pre-determined Migration loops simply do not create meaningful interactions between herbivores, or interesting Migrations in general, and only further funnel players into the flawed Patrol Zones. I feel your solution is a very over designed solution to a very simple problem. Food competition never happens as a result of dietary differences, starvation is never a threat since Grazing exists, and it would do absolutely nothing to stop mixherding... which I believe is also exaggerated as an issue in your post. Oh no character limi-

End of p1

[bleak vapor]

I feel like the set 1 of suggestions could have a very good impact on the every species gameplay because:

1. Limited(not scarce) food makes herbivores not see one another as friends anymore
2. The intox system, while a wilder ride, adds another resource to compete over
3. More competition for herbivores MEANS more fun for playing herbivore, it isn’t just predation you worry about anymore
4. It would make for essentially 2 different ecosystems going on mutually on the isle

[sudden tapir]

Alright I'm gonna take this chance to catch up on chat-

[untold geyser]

oh I didn't know that
I thought everything was diet as long as you forced a PZ

[bleak vapor]

Very good points

How can we make carnivores hunt herbivores more often though?

[sudden tapir]

Dietary changes

WE LOVE THE DIETS SYSTEM AROUND HERE
WOOOOO

[bleak vapor]

Hmmmm tell me more

I do think there is something wrong with the carnivore diets too

[woeful latch]

punish them for eating each other

[untold geyser]

BYE INFINITE DIET FROM ORGANS

[bleak vapor]

Organs are such a cool aspect though, I am conservative in this regard

[untold geyser]

I think they give too much reward. It essentially incentivises hunting literally anything because.. you can get your precious diets from EVERYTHING.

[bleak vapor]

F*k,I always wanted to have an academic level discussion of Evrima theory

[woeful latch]

yeah

[bleak vapor]

Lets all publish well articulated essays and start Schools of Thoughts in Evrima Development

[woeful latch]

then this channel is for you lmao

[untold geyser]

~60% hunger carno, doesn't need to eat, low on carbs. Sees dilo. That's an instant carb source on wheels

[urban flax]

I think organs are the one thing we should keep on carnivore diets

You can't expect carnivores to rely on specific 9 members of a roster of 50+ playables

[untold geyser]

Oh, but I do.....

[sudden tapir]

I mean... personally my radical ass would like to just gut the Diets system down to the bare essentials and then refine it into a completely new form... but that's probably a little extreme.

Keeping the baggage of the current system... realistically you would just need to remove carnivore co-dependance by making sure they aren't on eachothers preferred species list, and the organs simply do not give as much value when plucked from a carnivore corpse. You could also take a more extreme approach and give debuffs when a player is too reliant on carnivore meat.

Also AI... there is far too much AI right now, to the degree that even completely solo on a server, I have never had any issue sustaining a carnivore. With the sole exception of the Deino survival adjustments which honestly feel pretty good.

But a good part of the carnivore problem is just because Migration zones are not worth the risk to travel towards. They don't hold a consistent population, they rarely give interesting results, you'll only ever find one or two species there, they are pretty darn repetitive... and above all else, they mean less fighting, so most players just don't give a damn.

Even if we adjust the carnivores to have more punishing survival or less co-dependant diets... that would only be solving half the problem, and the herbivore half would need to change as well.

[sudden tapir]

Oh yeah no Organs are kinda the silliest part of the diets system.
They honestly just make me question what the point of having three core diets even is... since it's trivially easy to sustain it with the power of infinite overflowing organs.

[untold geyser]

YAY

[sudden tapir]

It's just the goofiest design logic I've ever seen.

[urban flax]

imo the issue isn't with organs but with base diets

[bleak vapor]

So essentially, in this world, if Herbis were encouraged to travel to adequate MZ, it would in turn encourage Carnivores to travel there too.

[urban flax]

But tbh the current iteration of diets we have is far from being the most interesting one

[sudden tapir]

Eh...
Kinda but not really.

[untold geyser]

why..

[bleak vapor]

I mean, we can’t realistically limit carnivore on carnivore hunting.

[sudden tapir]

if they were encouraged to travel there, it still wouldn't fix the other half dozen issues with the system lol

[sudden tapir]

I believe you can, and you should.
But that's kinda unrealistic.

[bleak vapor]

If herbis are often fighting each other, I can see carnivores lurking around to have an extra reason to hunt them

Specially because MZ would become also good scavenge zones

Intraspecial herding would increase, interspecial herding decreases, corpses are results of those clashes somewhat more often (its quite rare nowadays)

[sudden tapir]

Again that's kinda missing the point, herbivore infighting should be a neat byproduct instead of a driving factor. Herbivores beating the brakes off eachother should just be a neat thing that can happen, rather than adjusting the entire food economy around ensuring that does happen.

[untold geyser]

I agree

[bleak vapor]

I think you are onto something, I just don’t think what you are onto denies the usefulness and need of what I am onto. Get it?

[sudden tapir]

If anything, based on previous updates, that would only increase herbivore mixherding as groups would begin to optimize to outcompete other players.

As seen back in 3.75, it basically split the servers down the middle between solo players struggling to survive, and megapacks of every existing playable just dominating anyone and distributing the food among them.

[untold geyser]

herbi muncher clans

[sudden tapir]

Indeed.

Too much food scarcity causes whole new issues that come naturally with making any multiplayer game more cutthroat.

For carnivores, food scarcity causes fighting because the carnivores still function as fuel for the ecosystem... for herbivores, it just enforces optimization or teaming up with others to simply compete harder.

It's a difference of player reliance versus PvE reliance. If there is PvE reliance, there will be strong player coordination in resistance.

[lilac bolt]

Just strictly speaking, there's just quite a bit of stuff that needs to change and be improved upon before anything actually meaningful improves on the herbivore side of things, which is unfortunate that these problems are here in the first place but are here nonetheless.

[sudden tapir]

Yeah, it's kinda a bummer.
But hey, maybe they'll be fixed someday...

[bleak vapor]

Carnivores overrely on hunting other carnivores, that is a bigger issue in the game certainly, and of which I didn’t present a proper solution for.

However, I don’t believe that solves the herbivore boredom issue, because it is just an increase in PvP but not a substantial enough increase in proper herbivore gameplay dynamic for them.

Having to move every 25min to a new area of the map is great for the dynamic, as players are slightly encouraged to explore for a good reason.

Having to go to some specific area to detox is also a new great gameplay mechanic that adds dynamic to the game. Specially for Rex, an ambush apex.

Seeing different sets of species congregating in specific areas would also be nice for the immersion. It adds to the interspecific interaction culture. Apex carnivores and cera packs would love the MZ1 while Carnos raptors and dilos would prefer MZ2.

Let’s imagine if for some reason, now carnivores feel more encouraged to hunt herbivores, now all those changes become more significant and the game feels more immersive than ever.

[lilac bolt]

Hey, maybe if we're lucky, it could be something that could be worked on after elders who knows.

[sudden tapir]

lol

[bleak vapor]

Elders could be onto something

Weaker but still meaty herbis

but I mean, wouldnt be many elders around honestly

[sudden tapir]

If they are build on broken foundations they will not live up to their potential.
However, it will be cool to see some sick ass Elders running about.

[bleak vapor]

Maybe Rex and Allo will increase carnivore on herbi predation honestly

[urban flax]

Or more likely, they will increase carnivore on carnivore predation

[sudden tapir]

mhm

[limber hull]

i actually did publish an essay for one of my final units in uni for a class on game design on specifically The Isle Evrima

so i'm ahead of you there

[bleak vapor]

what was it about?

[limber hull]

specifically player-ran ecosystems and how The Isle is probably the best game at actually creating and encouraging such an ecosystem

[sudden tapir]

Not exactly setting a high bar there are ya...

[limber hull]

i'll be real

i think it does a fine job all things considered

at least more than a ton of other games

[sudden tapir]

Yeah but again... that's not a high bar considering it's the only one in the entire genre with even a passing interest in having an ecosystem.

The other ones don't even get a participation trophy.

[limber hull]

well the point wasn't really comparison as much as simply discussing how it achieves an ecosystem

[sudden tapir]

That's fair ig

[heady geode]

@tame geode not really the channel for a question, if you log out safely by sleeping your dinosaur saves, if you just log out at random it stands for there a few minutes and might die

[tame geode]

yea i logged safely with my buddies. I got cucked out of my dino anyway.

[heady geode]

well it is a buggy game, shame that, you should make a bug report

[junior nymph]

ive never had that

[limber hull]

#general-feedback message

I never understood the logistics of stuff like rhinos

Boars, deers, goats, bullfrogs, rabbits are all exceptionally hardy, adaptable animals that would basically be the only things that could survive on such a harsh environment

Crabs, fish and turtles were already there on account of it being an island

Rhinos? They're endangered as-is. Adding 9+ ton super predators would wipe them out within days of them being introduced to the island

Everything else on the island is basically textbook invasive species or something that would already be there

[junior nymph]

#general-feedback message hhelll nahh

[limber hull]

Also from a gameplay perspective we REALLY don't need 3.5 tons of free food lol yea

[stable trench]

And its not that important, there are so many more things they need to finish and fix first

[limber hull]

eh, i dont gauge suggestions by a metric of a self-decided importance. There's no timeframe placed on the suggestion so I never understand why people use this argument

[urban flax]

The simple fact they say omni packs could eat rhinos is a sign they'd be absolute free food for apexes

[tranquil silo]

Appreciate you actually responding instead of dropping common loot worthy replies

[tranquil silo]

And anything can eat anything, Doesn't need to be on diet for smaller dinos. BUT free food apexes is why i mentioned balance.

[stable trench]

Im not saying you cant make the suggestion, only that it is not important

[tranquil silo]

Balance would be the discussion of topic for stuff like that.

[tranquil silo]

Most things said in general feed back isn't important. Just ideas people throw out :D

[limber hull]

^

[urban flax]

I didn't mention diet either
But tbh big AI is a no-no for me as well

Not until they make AI properly difficult to hunt, but also no large modern animal makes sense in the context of The Isle's environment

[limber hull]

they'd be wiped out in days lol

i still think the AI selected was really clever

[urban flax]

The reason big animals are big is because they're the biggest thing in their environment, so nothing can kill them
If you pit them against a predator bigger than themselves, their only way of defense no longer works

[tranquil silo]

Thats fair! and i agree with the two above comments! i do like the idea of bigger AI, in the form of other big predatory dinos or large herbivores. just my personal take.

[urban flax]

Yeah
But the way it was implemented just to serve as food rather than making the ambience alive is a shame

[limber hull]

ehhhhh, i hate the idea of larger AI

frankly, I feel the AI we have is perfectly fine

[urban flax]

Except the chicken

To think cows and moose were planned at some point...

[limber hull]

Chicken, honestly, also adds

Do you know how RIDICULOUSLY fast chickens breed with ample food around

[urban flax]

But I would like things that make the island feel more alive, such as snakes, monkeys, different types of birds

[urban flax]

They're domestic chicken bruh
It's a dodo situation

[limber hull]

I want monkeys so bad lol

[urban flax]

Water fowl, pheasants or tetras would have been so much better

[limber hull]

Also I want the lizards and rats they showed off

[urban flax]

Yes these will be nice once they're added

[tranquil silo]

Domestic roosters are capable of fighting off things in their weight class due to spurs. So i still thin they're fairly hardy as a species.

[urban flax]

Things their own size = compies in this environment

[limber hull]

(also an insectivore niche will be SICK AS HELL and I want one of our small game animals to have it)

personally, hypsi would be my go-to for an insectivore

[urban flax]

Homalo could work too

[tranquil silo]

So its not super unrealistic for them to be running around. And i could see a Rooster killing a troodon. As they often fight off hawks and other birds of pray, not all the time do they win, but they win enough for it to be noteable.

But i can see why you think that way :D

[tranquil silo]

Also agree!

[urban flax]

A rooster killing a troodon !?
Troodons are 60 kg
They're bigger than me

[limber hull]

chickens CAN kill a troodon atm

a juvi troodon

it's very funny

[urban flax]

It IS super unrealistic for them to be running around

They just have no chance of survival whatsoever

[tranquil silo]

I disagree with the unrealistic bit, but i did not know Troodons got that big! thought they where much smaller

[limber hull]

the magic of perspective

unless you're playing as humans, you don't realise the sheer scale of EVERYTHING on the roster

[urban flax]

A lot of people underestimate the size of dinos in this game

[tranquil silo]

I just haven’t seen a troodon in game at all. (Which probably didn’t help)

[wooden agate]

tbf the foliage on the island is also huge which tends to confuse people sometimes

[urban flax]

That's true

[wooden agate]

"exceptional buffs once its future competition arrives"

the literal only competition adult deino faces and will face in its enviorment will be spino and other deinos

[woeful latch]

#general-feedback message

[wooden agate]

and it's meant to run from spino in the first place so im not sure why it needs "exceptional buffs" #general-feedback message

[woeful latch]

deino should 1v1 rex on land

[wooden agate]

so true

[untold geyser]

can we buff hypsi when rex drops

[wooden agate]

clearly that's what i was missing

[untold geyser]

i didnt think this one through

[limber hull]

i love how he doubles down by saying "denying this is illogical"

[gilded drift]

Deino having bonebreak is more logical than rex having it

[urban flax]

Explain why

[gilded drift]

sucho bud

[urban flax]

Sucho will be a threat to juvie deinos at best

[gilded drift]

also more land predators (allo, rex, giga) means less prey for deino

[urban flax]

That's not how it works
People still have to drink, no matter how many land predators there are
Also allo is on the menu for deino

[gilded drift]

sucho will be 5 tons, not lungable

2 suchos can bully a deino

[limber hull]

sucho ironically is not at all a threat to deinosuchus

it resides in the shallows (aka nothing to do with deino because deino can't go there) and is less than 6 tons, making it draggable while swimming and by extension, drownable

[urban flax]

In fact, more land predators may mean more prey for deino
Because safe drinking spots won't be as safe when a rex is camping them

[gilded drift]

They are going to buff deino in the future lol no matter what you say, and adding bonebreak to deino is way more logical than adding to rex

[urban flax]

source ?

Unless you're talking about its much-needed rework, which is different from a buff

But even with a rework, I don't see what use would deino have of bonebreak

[gilded drift]

it doesn't need a rework? What?

[urban flax]

It absolutely does and will be getting one

[gilded drift]

Are you one of those who thinks the lunge is not balanced?

[urban flax]

Deino as a whole is terribly designed

[gilded drift]

There were a bunch of you on its release