general-feedback-discussion

[raw hedge]

They can be fun, but self reliant no. almost all the heris are pack animals for a reason

[limber hull]

a galli benefits from a group, but it never needs one, it is entirely capable of living independently

[limber hull]

all herbis in the game are capable of self-reliance atm

[formal atlas]

This game is literally attempting to create an artificial ecosystem.

[limber hull]

and they should be

[raw hedge]

Only if they don't need to fight.

[neat zinc]

Every animal joins a pack because of social interection and the easeing of the combative load. That shouldnt make a solo experience unavailable however

[limber hull]

well, i mean, i am of the belief that the entire herbivore roster is rather underpowered atm so, i kinda agree

[neat zinc]

Exactly, and as such, the articifial ecosystem can be made more balanced than in real life.

Such a thing doesnt need to be 1 to 1

[formal atlas]

Not impossible. But much more improbable.

[raw hedge]

I agree, but saying fun = I can solo can be dangerous af to balancing

If everything is better in a pack, then why not?
Cause a solo pachy gets caught by a pack that's not self reliant. That's easy food

[neat zinc]

Only in the case of combat. I advocate for any animal to be able to live on their own, not necessarily fight on their own

[raw hedge]

Ok, so you and I are saying a bit of the same thing, you're just more articulate lol

[limber hull]

you realise that "making herbivores realistically reliant on groups" will translate to "why would i play the herbivore when the carnivore doesn't rely on finding a ton of likeminded players to even exist"

it's a player's choice of how they want to invest their time. No one wants to play as the animal that cannot exist without hoping to god someone else wants to play the same animal when there are many other options that can actually survive without relying on others

[raw hedge]

The ability to run should be more important than the ability to fight.

[limber hull]

by making stegos rely on herds, you are ironically ensuring you will never see a stego herd

no one will log on as a solo stego and risk instant death

because it is a 5 hour+ time investment wasted by the first rex that decides you to be food

[neat zinc]

Yeah, like you said, A solo pachy against a pack is fodder, thus why a pachy should be in a herd agaisnt a pack
But in balanceing, it should be done in 1v1 senarios for the most part, and as such, a solo pachy vs a solo carnivore of some kind would be more relivant

[formal atlas]

Real life if the most balanced thing ever created lmao. You think man could ever possibly come close? All we’ve ever done to the balance is destroy it at every possible opportunity. Nature is harsh, but she’s fair. Thinking you can possibly do better than that is probably the most foolish thing anyone has ever said. And only humans are dumb enough to say things like that

[raw hedge]

But it's 2 playstyles, because dinos like pachy and dryo are so weak solo, because they can't escape. I think to make herbis better, they need to have a dterence. the stego hits hard, but the dryo is weak af solo like pachy can be. But allowing for escape or extra mobility could help alot

[limber hull]

"real life is the most balanced thing ever"

dude it created the goddamn sloth, the animal that kills itself because it eats nothing but useless leaves and its stomach swells up and explodes

that's just so untrue it's funny

[neat zinc]

What you fail to consider is that only applies to animals that are made to live together.
This game pits animals that never lived together against each other
That puts it on us to balance the interactions so that every animal is worth playing in some way

[raw hedge]

but not everything should "win" the 1v1. I like the idea of giving options to the weak, so they can survive. dust kicking, something

[raw hedge]

And that's why animals go extinct lol

Things that can't survive just die. that's "fair"

[formal atlas]

Raptors typically need groups but there’s tons of them. And almost unwritten rule is find friends as fast as possible. Same would go for stego. The problem is that all herbivores aren’t really that fun to play. That’s the balancing act we’ve talked about before.

[limber hull]

real life created US. HUMANS. We literally show how insanely overpowered we can be by moulding our environment into whatever WE want. We can wipe any creature we want into extinction by willing it so. We can change creatures to fit our own image and serve us.

That isn't balanced, we are far above the rest, the only thing stopping us from turning this world into lifeless rubble is our own sense of pity and morality

[raw hedge]

I think more mechanics for the dinos would help

[limber hull]

raptors don't NEED groups. You can run from a threat without needing friends to do so. You can survive as a solo raptor with ease

[raw hedge]

But that's the thing, nature ISNT fair, so if a game wants realism, add the unfairness in fights, but more fun elswhere. running, exploration etc

[neat zinc]

Mechanics help to pick up the slack of a certain part of a characters stats that is lackluster, but it isnt something that would help in every case.
A good animal with good stats doesnt need many mechanics, if any at all

[raw hedge]

WE ar epast the solo or not thing I think. each dino needs to be fun in it's own right

[limber hull]

we aren't because he's still talking about it

well, actually, i'm past it, i'm going to goddamn bed lol

[neat zinc]

Have a good one Gen 2 lol

[raw hedge]

So add it for the ones that need it.

[neat zinc]

Yes, exactly

[raw hedge]

Gn homie!

[raw hedge]

Solo vs group play should have benifits etc depending on dino. The problem is, everything needs to be "fair " in a game to warrant equal player base

[neat zinc]

Group plays benefits should be far more catered to combat for the most part.
Some cases like Maia, being in a group for a nesting buff are largly irrelivant to the biggest benefit of group play

Solo play has the benefit of a single character to oversee, feed and water.
It lets you worry about only yourself

Largely being solo is the best way to survive any scenario except combat

From my experience anyway

[raw hedge]

I've died more when in groups personally, but I could also be a bad pack member. Some players may be better solo

[formal atlas]

I agree, which I thing they’re working on with the elder system. Maybe a way to dual each other for group leadership, or just bragging rights. Just something to do would help a lot.

[raw hedge]

I don't want to win every time lol, just 100%
That's how you get to Elder as anything besides a deino XD

It'll be great, but I hope they expand the map more first, add more food etc

[formal atlas]

Ease is a little over stating it. You have to pick and choose your fights very easily. (I’m assuming you’re not including AI) carnos bleed a little easy, but that should be fix and even with that it’s still an uphill battle. You’re not quite a glass cannon. But it’s close. And as much as I LOVE Omni. It should be hard, if not very hard solo. I know so much of this game depends on a very active player count and groups but if you’re gonna do it, do it right. Animals like Rex should only group to two, and should fiercely have to defend from their own kind. They might have to be canni, but pack animals should need packs, and solitary animals should be solitary.

[north quiver]

rex should absolutely not be a canni

they shouldn’t be able to even get away with eating organs. it should be like an omni eating another omni. no nutrients. only pain and suffering

[formal atlas]

Being fun and being able to fight anything else in the game aren’t the same thing. You’re right. Each playable HAS to be fun. Otherwise people won’t play it. But the food chain still exists. Every animal has a role to fill. That might mean making AI herbivores for guaranteed group protection and food. I’m not claiming to have all the answers by any means. I’m just trying to suggest things that I think will make the game fun, keep it realistic, and keep it immersive for the people like me who play as a dinosaur in a prehistoric world

[formal atlas]

It’s something I’ve gone back and forth on myself. Cause deinos are canni and there’s a billion of them. Take that away and the population would plummet. But if you’re putting in something with no natural predators because it’s the top of the top, then you gotta balance it somehow. And I’d rather have to kill each other for resources then be slow, weak, have a large turn radius, or whatever lazy tuning design people have come up with.

Maybe it’ll be a mix. Non canni but still have to kill each other for resources. But I also don’t want to it have a five minute starving time either.

[north quiver]

balance it with requiring a lot of food. when food is a serious issue, rexes will start killing other rexes because they’re actual dangerous competition eating all of the food

the hunger drain can be debated, but there’s no doubt rex should require an ungodly amount of food to prevent large populations from forming

[formal atlas]

Yeah lol I just said that, but I don’t want it to be too bad. People already fight when their full now as it is. Which I know is because there’s nothing else to do. But if they introduce Rex before the prey and give it a huge hunger drain the Rex will have no choice but to try and wipe the server to stay alive, which is exactly what people don’t want.

I’ve also thought about a territory system. Like if there’s too many Rex’s close they get a debuff. Only way to keep it off is thin ourselves out. And that could be applied to all solitary playables.

Cause that would also make spreading out a thing too. That way there’s less of a new “center” on gateway.

[north quiver]

there wouldn’t be much to wipe due to their slowness, thankfully lol I’d be very concerned if they could catch up to anything aside from a stego

[formal atlas]

As a matter of fact. Now that I’m thinking about it. You could apply it to all animals. It could prevent mix packing, and mega packs. But the debuff wouldn’t apply to you if they’re in your group. Then that fourth carno would be forced to leave or die. And you also couldn’t have 10 stegos around either

[north quiver]

the constant threat of starvation via not enough food to go around would be the perfect motivator of population control. if there’s enough rexes being sustained for the need of a territory system, then something is seriously wrong

[formal atlas]

See that’s what I don’t want. The Rex is fast. Not raptor fast (although in game they need to be quicker to kinda match the top speeds I guess) it’s one of if not the top predators ever produced by this planet. Give it the respect it’s due. Put in the work to make a clever balance that still makes the tyran king feel powerful, but also keeps 100 of them off the Server.

[north quiver]

absolutely not. it would need to be significantly nerfed to make up for the speed buff so it’s not an overwhelming op playable that makes smaller playables useless and a waste of time to grow

[formal atlas]

Yeah but then you aren’t free to even try to explore the map, or move very far at all. The god awful hunger drain keep people afraid of leaving center for any length of time. And for the sheer size of it, you can’t even really explore it for fear of starvation.

[north quiver]

which is good. rex will be powerful. I want it to suffer with starvation. want to explore the map? use smaller, less powerful playables

[formal atlas]

Not if you made it run out of stamina very fast. But also made it regain stamina quickly. So it can’t chase you across the map, but it’s the speed demon it was meant to be,

[north quiver]

rex should only be able to be grown and maintained by the most skillful of players, and even they should have a hard time due to the sheer power rex will have

[north quiver]

I haven’t really made a stance on how much stamina it should have and if it should have a speed boost that correlates with it, but I certainly don’t want rex catching playables that hardly won’t be a snack to it. e.g cera, teno, carno, etc. (rex is a B I G boy. it’ll tango with stego)

[formal atlas]

And there slips your motivation, you want Rex to suffer. I know the prospect of an all powerful thing has people shaking in their boots. But it’s the way that animal was, you should be scared. They need a clever way to balance it so it isn’t the majority of the players at any given time. But do it RIGHT. Like I said. Implement a territory system, do something that gives credit to the greatest predator that ever lived, while also keeping them in check. The hunger bars are already fast. Crocs can go months without eating and it’s been reported almost a year on a single meal. The hungry drain is already a crutch for balance. See if there’s another way. A super clever design first before you go the cheap route. Nature already has the answer, the world is full of ecosystems. The territory thing could have real promise, but there’s gotta be a smart way to do it.

[north quiver]

again, if you need a territory system with debuffs to help with overpopulation of a playable, then something is very wrong and needs to be changed

[formal atlas]

If it’s good enough for nature and the literal way the world has worked for as long as it’s existed why isn’t good enough for you?

[north quiver]

because this is a video game not real life nature..?

[formal atlas]

Nature works like that all the time, tigers, wolves, bears, even cows and donkeys have territories.

[north quiver]

never really been on the “but in irl this” and “irl that” train for games that aren’t really meant to be accurate

[formal atlas]

the game is a simulation of an ecosystem

[north quiver]

yeah but they don’t exactly get.. debuffed lol..

[formal atlas]

The debuff is the game. Real animals are driven by instinct, you gotta find a way to make people do that. And since you can’t give them instinct. You gotta do something.

[north quiver]

a currently bad ecosystem that needs tweaks

[formal atlas]

That’s the whole point of this channel is to talk about ways to come with the solution that are those tweaks

[north quiver]

make hunger a real issue the more powerful the playable is. a simple fix

[raw hedge]

We aren't 100% sure how dinos really lived.
So it'll take ages to balance it out game wise. both playables and ecosystem

[north quiver]

yep

[slender vigil]

personally i think a full grown 100% croc should either get a dmg buff, or a stamina buff. I feel more nerfed at full adult than the entire time growing.. mid size gators shouldnt be able to team up on me so easily .
And would like to see a new atk animation option when grabbing something like a steggo at full adult.. trying to grab by the side and drag under seems rediculas on something that big.. BUT i still should be able to grab it by the face and try to pull it down.. creating a tug of war between weight and stamina.

[raw hedge]

You are strong against everything else. 2v1 on a fg anything vs sub will always favor the group anyways

[formal atlas]

A lazy fix. A fix someone with two rubber brain cells could come up with. Nature has fixes for problems all the time, take inspiration from that and at least TRY to do better, be better.

[raw hedge]

I wouldn't say lazy, but hunger is already an issue for carnis in the isle.

So making things hungrier won't balance the player base.

I would almost say, make the dino you play on a server random

[formal atlas]

Oh yeah. Like 4v1 trike vs Rex the Rex should lose, unless the player skill and even then not all four. Just one to live. And the other three escape.

[raw hedge]

Then the game can balance heris and carnis better

[slender vigil]

@raw hedge Even modern Gators can one shot anything smaller than them. or rip them apart.. mid size gators I chomp and chomp and they tank it . Allowing for too much trolling

[north quiver]

m8, not everything has to be based around nature irl. it’s not a lazy fix, it’s an effective fix because it can and will work. exhibit A: cera and its insane food intake. ever rolled in 5-6 player packs? while food drain is slow, getting enough food for everyone is definitely a problem. a serious problem, and a problem that’s very much needed to help keep their populations in check

[raw hedge]

But that's the game, you can't buff the fg just because you get ganged on. happens irl.

[formal atlas]

Then you’d have ping issues and lord knows what for most players. I’m lucky enough to have gig internet and a really good PC but a lot of people aren’t and don’t so that might make joining and staying on server a nightmare.

[raw hedge]

But making things kill hungry for survival will potentially ruin other player experience...

[raw hedge]

But I mean, let the game pick ur dino. a 3-1 ratio of herbi to carni is relativley balanced

[slender vigil]

@raw hedge point of it being more that .. theirs no real benifit to the time investment of growing full size.. when small - med gets way more play style options . At 100% you lose all your speed, stamina, agility. With no real benifits

[raw hedge]

Cause yes,, ish happens, but it'll also force balance roles. I only bring it up because I think its a better solution than just making things hungry

[raw hedge]

But you can kill anything. you are ambush, not a fighter. If smaller deinos gang on you its because of food. Can't take away food from smaller dinos because you are getting jumped

Deino is strong, that's why there are too many

[formal atlas]

Again the game is literally trying create an artificial ecosystem. It’s trying to recreate nature. And nature has a thousand different systems in place to balance it and they don’t all revolve around just being super hungry.

[raw hedge]

I think that a dino cap per speices could be a good test.

Limit the starving cannibals, and limit the likelihood of herbi insta dying

[slender vigil]

@raw hedge well .. technically you can eat ALMOST anything dumb enough to come to the water. but lose out on anything inland you could access when small.. but in reality .. those babies you can eat dont really do much for you.. the idea is your suppose to eat full grown prey.. which seems to be few and far between .. as a full adult i eat more fish now to survive starvation than i did my entire growth time.

[raw hedge]

Might be a good balance test.

[raw hedge]

Once again, too many carnis. that's why so few fgs. Herbis hide in safe areas, and carnis can't reliably find food. Not an issue with deino being bad

in nature, populations balance themselves, but we cant in a game cause carnis are too prevalent and fun

[slender vigil]

@raw hedgeat 100% i would almost feel motivated to go full cannibals'.. to help reduce compitition.. BUT.. a duo of mid size will mess you up quick

[north quiver]

being super hungry is nearly the only thing that can be done without negatively affecting other aspects of gameplay. lots of cannibalism in theory would definitely help reduce a population, but this is a game. people can endlessly respawn. adding artificial debuffs would only cause problems

[raw hedge]

That's the problem, cannibals ruin gameplay, and things can't grow. Why even try herbi if life is hard anyway lol

[slender vigil]

i feel a full grown adult should be avoided at all cost by the smaller ones

that would create teritory , and more careful play styles

[raw hedge]

Sure, but that doesn't mean you can't be contested.
Alphas can get pushed out by numbers. that's balance

There isn't enough territory for the number of crocs in game

[slender vigil]

yea ... of course .. by other large adults.. not little meals in groups

[raw hedge]

So it won't matter

[neat zinc]

Would you be satisfied with a death roll that has a damage curve significantly higher for larger things than smaller? Something only usable in the water, so that on land deinos cant death role anything and just simply win

[slender vigil]

@neat zinc i would be happy with just a dmg buff vs other gators only gained when 100% is reached

[neat zinc]

I reckon thats a little too simple

I also think its a bit unfair, being bigger shouldnt be a win condition for the most part

It should only help

[slender vigil]

only thing i really gain at 100% is to now become a target for everything else

[formal atlas]

I thought about that but then it favors the people who no life the game. Busy people who want to play the popular playables wouldn’t be able to and even as someone who can no life it, the answer being a skill issues (if you can survive/kill me in a fight) is much more fair than “I can try and get that slot for 8 hours straight and you can’t”

[formal atlas]

Yeah plus letting the babies swim by is more often than not bait because people think it’s safe lol

[slender vigil]

lol last night for example i got jumped by a half dozen little baby gators.. i ended up killing them all.. but they did a disapointing amount of dmg to me.. when they really shouldnt have even been able to get through my skin

[formal atlas]

And that I can kinda agree on. Carnivores are more fun. That’s why people play them. It’s why I’ve said you gotta make it interesting to play the herbivores to keep it balanced. But I think that’s hopefully going to be addressed with the elder system.

[raw hedge]

I want escape mechanics for herbis, kicking up dust etc.

Like it should be "hard to catch" , not hard to kill per se

[neat zinc]

The elder system will effect herbivores and carnivores equally i imagine, so the problem is only adressed for elder herbivores vs adult carnivores

[slender vigil]

main thing Herbs need .. is a ingame map showing food zones.. not knowing where to go is a huge turn off to a new player

[raw hedge]

Food for herbi sucks. not spread evenly, most of the map is useless.

[neat zinc]

A map should be available in general, something that you have to fill in when you get on a server
Helps with encouraging exploration

[normal lotus]

This is why nesting should be encouraged by others and being nested in is great for starting off.

[formal atlas]

Yeah, the fact that there has to be an online interactive map does mean there’s room for improvement.

[raw hedge]

I think it will balance naturally. Elder stage is baesd on your growth, (Mod/dev told me)

[slender vigil]

@raw hedgei tried and failed a few times to play a herb,.. had no clue where to find food . until i found a another friendly player to escort me around the map... and while that was nice.. it shouldnt be required . turns off new players entirely .. way too confusing

[normal lotus]

I honestly prefer there being no map.

[formal atlas]

I think they’ve already said it was a failed attempt and the migration mechanic. So I think they’re going to try something else.

[normal lotus]

Yea, gateway.

[icy lion]

Apparently there'll be compass indicators for migrations, so that should help herbivores a lot

[neat zinc]

Well, even so, think about it.
If you have a 150% grown herbivore as an elder, vs a 100% grown carnivore, that may be more balanced, but if you require a significant growth advantage for the matchup to be even, there is an issue

[raw hedge]

The spawns are bad, but there is a map online that shows food for herbis. But I shouldn't need a map to live

[normal lotus]

Good thing we won't be on this map for too long!

[raw hedge]

I don't think elder goes that far.

[slender vigil]

Nesting system fails from the start.. nothing on man menu explains anything .. as a new player i didnt even know that was a option until about 20 hours in

[urban flax]

yay more compass clutter

[formal atlas]

But it would also help it having all three diets was the most beneficial thing you could do. Just having the 50% growth does nothing for someone who’s already grown so it encourages staying close to own food source.

[icy lion]

Not every species is meant to be equal to each other. An elder teno is still no match for a rex because it's a rex

[formal atlas]

Especially stamina food, that’s a real problem for everyone

[raw hedge]

The game has no tutorial and I think that'll change down the road

[raw hedge]

Elder means older, not stronger per se right?
Some might have buffs, some may be weak

[icy lion]

Elder is the beneficial stage. Senior is end-of-cycle, weak and frail

[formal atlas]

I like it for immersion, but I think there’s gotta be something. I think the migration thing super said might work

[neat zinc]

No, but im only refering to matchups that should be even, an elder of an animal could be strong enough to be equal to an adult of another stronger animal
However for even matchups, where things are ment to be checked by something, be it a carnivore or herbivore, the matchup should be far more even at simply the adult stage

[icy lion]

Though that's semantics at the end of the day

[raw hedge]

Got it.
I think it's good to limit overall lifespan

So I think it'll be a cool idea to see implemented

[slender vigil]

@raw hedge i would be happy with a basic description of each dino.. what they do and atks ,.. i had to go to youtube to figure out way too much

[raw hedge]

(Via elder/ senior)

[normal lotus]

I mean its voluntary to pass on by natural causes, but you are weaker as a senior.

[raw hedge]

It's a good way to balance the game tbh

[normal lotus]

It should.

[normal lotus]

It also fits with mutation, iirc you can keep a mutation after dying of natural causes.

[raw hedge]

It's not an intuitive game and that's ok. A tutorial is hard to make super well,

[raw hedge]

That's dope af! How many "Mutations" can be stacked? or is it random/based on life

[raw hedge]

I learnt alot from youtube, but I learnt more in game. I like to test EVERTHING lol

[formal atlas]

Do you know if the elder system will have buffs based on if you made it in the next life? Like lay eggs and as you die be reborn with buffs and traits to carry on in the egg you laid?

[raw hedge]

I'm thinking of doing a basic tutorial down the road once I get a bit better

[normal lotus]

We...don't know much. It works based on life.

[slender vigil]

@raw hedge I still dont know how to play/use most species ..

[raw hedge]

Once I'm off work, I can offer to teach you a bit.

[icy lion]

It's been said that becoming an elder and dying of age can earn you mutations (aka perks) that you can use in your next life. It's all under development though, so things can definitely change

[raw hedge]

need notepad and pen cause I info dump lmao

[normal lotus]

No, more you spawn in with a mutation you gained from your old life.

[normal lotus]

Most are rather easy

[slender vigil]

@raw hedgei'm learning as i go.. but it seems to be a failed system when i can for example .. reach near adult size gator before learning i can death roll to get guts out

[raw hedge]

Like I said, there are so many mechanics you can't make a general tutorial

[slender vigil]

or that my bite does toxic debuff damage to a target

[raw hedge]

Each dino plays different, basic mechanics ie diet are the same

[icy lion]

In-game tutorials have been discussed by the devs, but in the meantime, the update trailers and the few tutorial videos on the official Youtube are pretty nice

[barren jewel]

People saying "FIX THE GAME" in feedback, you're not helping. The game is still IN DEVELOPMENT and the very early stages of it. Do you want a good game? Or rushed through buggy even worse pile of crap?

[raw hedge]

I'd rather have them focus on game first, let community make some stufff in the meanwhile.

[raw hedge]

We are just talking about fixes lol

[normal lotus]

@delicate spindle my man chill, they're working on stuff.

[raw hedge]

Not everyone has been complaining here tbh

[urban flax]

"Fix the playerbase"
Sure that can be done in 1 week
By banning 90% of players

[raw hedge]

Where are yall coming from XD
Who said player base lol

[normal lotus]

True

[urban flax]

#general-feedback message

[raw hedge]

AH

My B, was just whiplashed by convo XD

Can we market this as dark souls but dinos?

Should I put that in the General feedback channel XD

[urban flax]

No because it isn't

I fail to see what this game has in common with dark souls

[raw hedge]

Death is a feature

Expect to die lmao. Not a bad thing, it is survival lol

[urban flax]

Then might as well label it as Super Mario but dinos

[lapis swallow]

minecraft is dark souls too, then

[raw hedge]

Yoshi is next playable change my mind

[raw hedge]

Meh, MC is crafting
Dark souls is about dying

[formal atlas]

I gotcha. Do you know if it’ll be powerful? Cause honestly dying of old age should be a really good reward. I wouldn’t be mad if you got to pinpoint your spawn, you got mutation/s, you start at full hungry, it drains slower for a certain time, and you got accelerated growth.

[icy lion]

We don't know what elder mutations will be like yet

[void crow]

@valid meteor You do know that troodons can kill stegos, right? And that hypsies can't kill dryos?

If all troodons spawned as adult, they could easily kill carnos, stegos, tenos, etc. If you get a good pack you can kill those, and if you spawn as adult there will probably be more troodons. Hypsies can't kill anything if they tried, even if the creature went AFK because they would just starve before they die to the hypsi.

[valid meteor]

I do realize that. The main reason I say have troodon spawn as adult, at least for now, is because playing as baby troodon in grass is absolute suffering. I also say it because of how insanely easy troodon dies.

I understand that you should be rewarded for skill, but it’s incredibly hard to gain that skill when you’re dying almost every time you make even a small mistake.

[void crow]

True, but what would you do as a baby troodon anyway? You don't get venom until 65%, and you're damage is so low you won't do anything to anything you attack. Every time I spawn as a troodon I go for food then sit in a bush until pre-adult, because they grow so fast they don't need food before that. At least this way troodons won't keep coming back after they die to kill the creature that killed them.

[valid meteor]

Yeah that’s fair I guess. Tbh it’s just annoying seeing grass all the time as troodon. :/ I hope it’s fixed in gateway.

[void crow]

https://tenor.com/view/the-avengers-marvel-jeremy-renner-clint-barton-hawkeye-gif-17148870

Lets see if a moderator deletes this...

[valid meteor]

Lol

[barren jewel]

@valid meteor troodons have one of the fastest grow times in the game what are you on about??

[valid meteor]

Have you ever played baby troodon? I don’t care how fast their grow times are, I’d rather not suffer through that every time I lag and die fifty feet away from a cera’s face.

[barren jewel]

i have played troodon many times its not that bad its like 10 minutes maybe less of being smaller than the grass. youre just impatient

[valid meteor]

No, I just don’t wanna play grass simulator.

I wanna play dinosaurs screaming and fighting simulator.

[urban flax]

Troodon spawning full-grown would be insanely OP

[barren jewel]

its not a simulator game its survival game. if youre honestly having so many issues with it im convinced youre just bad at the game

[barren jewel]

frrr every server would have like 40 troodons lol

[valid meteor]

1. Yeah I know it’s a survival game (though it really doesn’t feel like one tbh) 2. Being bad at the game doesn’t mean I can’t see the flaws in playing as a dinosaur that’s smaller than grass.

[barren jewel]

1. it doesnt feel like it yet cuz its in early development and youre playing it like its a "dinosaurs screaming and fighting simulator" 2. the dinosaur is smaller than the grass because in real life the dinosaur would have been smaller than the grass. just cuz you dont like the realisim doesnt mean they should change it

[urban flax]

If you know what the issue is, why do you suggest something that would greatly imbalance the game and remove a part of the gameplay instead of suggesting something to fix said problem ?

Like making vegetation fade when it was between your dino and the camera, like it used to do

[limber hull]

i play baby troodon all the time, it's so quick to grow it really doesn't matter

also i happen to enjoy being an ant

[fiery swan]

@midnight heath the idea of being able to drink as a PT while flying over the water is an awesome idea!

U die so easily trying to take a sip

[midnight heath]

I thought so! Given you can just peck to catch fish rather than skimming, skimming instead being used to get water and still being risky just seemed fitting!

[fiery swan]

Similar to crocs being able able to just bite the school or fish?

Yeah the skimming drinking sounds very good..

[midnight heath]

Yep! For the longest time I wasn't aware that pecking at jumping schools of fish did anything and to my surprise it's just an alternative way to fish! Skimming is far more risky and takes a little more work so switching it up would be quite neat!

Also on your "spawn more AI" I agree! I'm not sure why so many folks seem to feel the other way but as someone who enjoys carno there really isn't that much AI, especially for FG carnivores.

[fiery swan]

Especially Carno.

It's so easy to starve . I traveld half the map at ai hotspots with an empty stomach and nothing spawned.

[limber hull]

i don't feel there should be more AI, the game spawns a good amount, the map needs to be better so that the AI won't exist off in some desolate corner

[fiery swan]

I mean .

Shouldn't they spawn in ur area?

So you can actually find them

Like legacys avis and such

[limber hull]

god no

they should absolutely not do that

that was literally why apex carnivores were SO easy to grow

the game literally just fed you free food so you never had to try

[fiery swan]

So you rather starve cuz there is no players nearby

[limber hull]

yes

[fiery swan]

Or die to sth bigger

[limber hull]

100%

it's a survival game

starvation should be a legitimate threat

[midnight heath]

Honestly it's the corners of the map that I see the least amount of AI

I've died at the edges of the map because there's just seemingly no AI

[limber hull]

they're in those exceptionally dense forests

[fiery swan]

You can starve anywhere and find maybe 1 thing and that's it

Not enough in my opinion

[limber hull]

i literally haven't starved in so long, idk where this constant need for more food comes from

[midnight heath]

If falling to your death wasn't such an issue currently because of dense foliage I would venture more into the forests.

[limber hull]

Spiro bad

[fiery swan]

Just walk carefully xD

[limber hull]

Essentially, Spiro locks away a bunch of AI because it's in massively unreachable areas

[midnight heath]

Players I think that aren't so familiar with the map I think, I haven't died of starvation in a while but steering off the verge of starvation has been common at least with carno.

[fiery swan]

Welp. I'm sad I haven't seen any ai in days. That's all

[urban flax]

AI spawns plentu enough, it just never despawns

[limber hull]

man i see boar all the damn time so idk where the hell all the boars are for you lol

[fiery swan]

Then ur just lucky and I'm the most unlucky

Cuz I starve easily unless I 1v1 sth huge

[urban flax]

So if a carnivore scares an AI away and they stick themselves in an unreachable place, they're gonna stay there until next server restart

[fiery swan]

Aw man

[midnight heath]

The common areas where there are boar and deer have other carnivores, competition though will be competition I guess. Also yes, Spiro bad.

[limber hull]

yup

[limber hull]

oh no, boar and deer spawn well beyond the frequented spots

the difference is that these other spots lack either water or herbi food

[midnight heath]

Exactly

[limber hull]

so no one goes there, and no one ever interacts with the AI

because, again, Spiro is a horrid map

[midnight heath]

Again another issue maybe Gateway will fix

I never understood poor map design until I got into this game, granted other genres I play map design isn't as much of an issue as it is in this.

[limber hull]

On Gateway you can actually explore the entire map top to bottom, so... yea

Gateway was so much fun in my experience

[fiery swan]

Even legacys map had water in the middle of nowhere

[midnight heath]

I've only watched whatever I can find, I think the spawns are neat and how some are exclusive to certain species.

I hope that does stay that way

[limber hull]

Makes it much better to spawn in, since not everyone can spawn in a single hotspot, and spawncamping is SO much harder

[midnight heath]

Exactly because right now it's a bit of an issue, also migration helping with people not sticking in specific areas for the most part is appealing.

[limber hull]

yea, 100%

also any actual loop for herbis is well appreciated

[raw hedge]

Was gateway a legacy map, or a test evrima map?

[limber hull]

EVRIMA map, upcoming

It's the big new update coming I believe in next major update

[raw hedge]

Any timeline on it? Or still in the works for a bit?

[limber hull]

next update is the closest we got

i believe it's top priority tho

[raw hedge]

You were hyping it up as a bit more of a balanced map. Got me excited to see it lol

[limber hull]

unlike spiro, all elements of it are explorable, there's no sudden barriers

it has a far greater variety of biomes, and makes the biomes feel more engaging to intercat with. Plains are flat and open, forests aren't so dense and cliffy it's impossible to move around

it has a plethora of areas for juvis and smalls to hide within to avoid larger animals

there are fun little "sub islands" off the coast that you can move to. IDK if they'll be utilised in the final product, but it's a blast to explore beyond the limits of the main island

[raw hedge]

Is it going to be an extension of Spiro? Or a new map entirely?

[limber hull]

human structures play a FAR greater part, being more frequent and defining map geometry and chokepoints through bridges, walls and gates

[limber hull]

entirely new

spiro is even rumoured to be put on the backburner and essentially removed to free up download space for players

[ivory sandal]

can't say anyone would complain if that happened

[raw hedge]

I feel like the current map has potential, if it gets a tad flattened out. Less cliffs and hills.
The only real problem is the vegetation in the forest I think. And lack of safe crossings/water.
If that happens when more Dino’s are added to the roster I think it could be reworked.

[limber hull]

i forgot to mention, Gateway overhauls regional spawning, meaning each animal has a selection of spawnpoints fitting for their animal. For instance, a tenonto can spawn in swamps, but not carno

[limber hull]

current map is inherently flawed

[raw hedge]

That’s nice actually.

[raw hedge]

It’s not suitable for the current roster 100%. But it’s not bad for smaller species. But yeah, legacy map was better imo. So gateway has me hyped lol

[limber hull]

gateway is nothing like legacy, heads up

[raw hedge]

Ooooh.

Imma try to find a post of it

[raw hedge]

It looks so cool. Looks like true regions are in there.

[normal lotus]

Here is your gateway pictures. Remember all of these except for the top middle are in UE4

[limber hull]

i would also like to point out that thanks to Gateway, I am the FIRST EVER Isle player to ever die on the toilet

My hypsi died on a toilet

[raw hedge]

XD that’s a crappy way to go

[limber hull]

I was the first ever person to die in that situation

[normal lotus]

Hello quark u typing up a storm

[fathom tulip]

@humble pollen While yes it's an issue, it's a hard one for devs themselves to stop. A group of 10 large deinos requires a ton of food. The only way it's a sustainable group is if nitwit players try to challenge them. The amount of people I've seen thoughtlessly run in for bites on a deinos tail as it's walking back to the water, only to be alt bit and die is ridiculous. I honestly see massive Deino groups as a playerbase wide skill/decision making issue

[north quiver]

temporarily removing cannibalism from deino would also help the population shrink until gateway

(temporarily remove elite fish too and don’t allow deino to catch the small school fish if you want to whack them even more into the pit of misery)

[proven thunder]

@midnight heath teno is one of he strongest 1v1 dinos minus the deino and stego

[limber hull]

atm? not really, no

it's been nerfed for many patches now

[proven thunder]

A full grown teno can 1v1 any carnivore besides the deino hands down zero issues

[midnight heath]

I'm not sure what deinos or tenos you're seeing

[proven thunder]

tail slam negates carnotaurus charge, and once stunned two kicks to the head and an alt attack hes close to dead if not dead

Cera's, whats there to worry about with ceras

[limber hull]

it actually doesn't, a carno can easily charge through tailslam lol

[midnight heath]

Deino has the highest health out of any creature currently, to put into perspective; steg's tail does 1000N and it takes roughly 4-5 hits to a deinos head to kill it. Tenos tailslam FG does 360N DMG.

[proven thunder]

If you time the tail slam properly a carno will not be able to charge through the tail slam

[proven thunder]

This conversation removes deinos/stegos due to them being the strongest dinos with only them being able to kill them

effectively

i should note that obviously there are anomalies

[midnight heath]

I read your response wrong, my apologies.

Teno isn't really the brawler it used to be

I've seen groups of carnos tear apart groups of tenos as of late

[limber hull]

teno has been far too nerfed tbh

[proven thunder]

No and I agree to that, but on official servers once the stego is(if) removed tenos will be the strongest herbivore capable of 1v1ing something in current standards.

Obviously its unknown with potential updates coming regarding carno speed, etc.

[midnight heath]

I'm just saying, old teno isn't new teno. Even if it can hold it's own, even if just barely that's one herbivore (again excluding steg) out of the entire roaster that might be able to fend for itself for a 1v1.

Pachy used to be able to actually be somewhat scary and now it's just... squishy

[limber hull]

old teno used to hold itself competently against groups of carnos, it felt powerful but still fair. Now it just feels lame

[limber hull]

i mean, old pachy was also horrid for the game

there's no excusing old pachy really

[proven thunder]

pachy's are the new dryo, pointless, which doesnt exactly make sense because if you get your leg broken you be hurting

[midnight heath]

I don't think old pachy is what we need per se but new pachy isn't good either

[limber hull]

i actually like dryo more than pachy atm lol

but, tbh, dryo is my fave herbi atm

[proven thunder]

Just depends on what the over all end game expectation from developers are regarding pack sizes. 4 Pachys can kill 1 carno

[midnight heath]

I had a good sized pack of pachys the other day, roughly 8 maybe and two carnos and a cera steamrolled us. Granted the carnos rammed into at least 2 of us and we were non the wiser because the footsteps just didn't make any noise.

A carno ram to a pachy puts you at like 20% health, another bite or 2 and you're done.

[limber hull]

cera has fracture resist, because of course it does lol

and carno ram is stupid in general

[midnight heath]

I know I've broken a ceras leg before but I don't think it was FG, I don't think a pachy can break a carnos legs currently (?) At least we couldn't

[proven thunder]

oh the good ol days with pachy stun

you can

[limber hull]

pachy stun doesn't need a comeback

[midnight heath]

Then we've had awful luck.

[limber hull]

god that was insufferable

[limber hull]

luck plays no part in fractures

it isn't chance-based

[midnight heath]

What part do you have to hit? I'm not sure how all 8 of us didn't hit anything vital.

[proven thunder]

if it was viable best thing to do initially is head butt their ehad

[limber hull]

legs, body and head all have unique fracture points

[proven thunder]

head

but its not viable

[midnight heath]

Could running all S make that harder?

Because I was convinced that we just couldn't, I've broken omnis, the cera but never a carno

[limber hull]

no

[midnight heath]

Well I'd say I need to practice more then, but pachy takes a weird chunk of time to grow just to possibly die fairly fast.

[limber hull]

yea, because it lacks a lot of options that other animals have

[proven thunder]

find an unofficial free grow server

less time punishing

[midnight heath]

You have a point

[frosty willow]

wait what?

[limber hull]

yea, you didn't know?

[frosty willow]

i didnt

[limber hull]

cera has fracture resist, bleed resist, damage resist while eating and damage resist while near a corpse

4 different kinds of resistances

[frosty willow]

so pachy is pretty much defenseless against cerato unless it finds a rock, badass

[limber hull]

yea essentially lol

again, herbis are in a terrible spot this patch

[void crow]

I've never heard of the fracture resist. I've heard of the other resistances, but when I was a cera about a week ago, two pachys attacked my and broke my legs and possibly gave me a body fracture easy.

[urban flax]

@daring talon Compy is already small enough, a hypoendocrin compy would be impossible to see

[daring talon]

hypo compy would b e like herrera sized

[urban flax]

No it would be smaller than regular compy

[daring talon]

why tf would it be smaller

all the other hypos are bigger

hypo utah is like carno sized hypo rex is a behemoth

[urban flax]

There is no hypo creature

[daring talon]

tf is it called now then

[urban flax]

Hypo means less
Hypoendocrin means less growth hormones
Therefore smaller and weaker

[daring talon]

cuz it WAS hypos

[urban flax]

It never was

[daring talon]

fr

[urban flax]

You're thinking of hypers

[daring talon]

fine
hyper compy
word game playing cdhasuichdsuyagcuydiaksghcbkalsuy

[urban flax]

NOW hyper compy is something we could see
Useless, but whatever

[daring talon]

hyper compy (:

[ivory sandal]

Hyper compy

[summer thistle]

Probably edit your message for hyper than

[viral thistle]

thats the plan wasnt it

yet herbivores are what most carnivores would pick too fight outside of massive herds you get the same thing as carnis you just cant eat them.

most carnivores get picked because they look cool are badass and most of the time faster

[crude girder]

Cerato does not have fracture resist, rather it has higher fracture hp than normal in its body parts

important distinction because fracture/bleed resist are a uniform "reduce incoming damage by X amount"

Cerato is not uniformly stronger than other animals relative to fracture damage, it would be if it had fracture resist

Its head is more resistant to fracture than its body or legs are when compared to a Carnotaurus or Omniraptor of equal size

Also "damage resist while eating" is a bit misleading

it doesn't reduce incoming damage, it is a threshold based immunity

you either deal normal damage, or no damage, you don't deal reduced damage to an eating Cerato

[formal atlas]

Is it a percent chance?

[crude girder]

no, it is based on the amount of damage dealt

Cerato ignores hits that deal less than a certain % of its health

so a Troodon bite doesn't deal any damage, but a Stego tail swing always deals full amount

[limber hull]

i mean, higher frac HP could easily be mistaken for a type of frac resist, but thanks for clarifying

[full pewter]

@ocean coral While I agree, like we should get allo alongside it, we still don’t know how it’ll play out. We don’t know if it’ll be anything like legacy Maia, but assuming it is, it’ll be fast and tanky with low dps. Because of this I do think carno packs can take them on with a barrage of bites even if they can’t use their charge. Then there’s also it’s ram which I’m assuming will function like carnos charge but sideways, hopefully that gets decent punishment so they’re not just bullying ceratos with it

My thinking why they are adding Maia now is one, that it’s just barely on the bigger end compared to the current mid tiers so they can finally start adding larger ones. And two, that it’ll have stance switching, switching from quadrupedal and bipedal stances that’ll both have unique mobility and attacks, which will help speed up development on other playables like para and shant

[ocean coral]

I really don’t enjoy how solo players like me getting absolutely destroyed by maias and nothing we can do about it

[full pewter]

On legacy?

[ocean coral]

nope evrima don’t play legacy

[full pewter]

Maia isn’t in evrima yet

You mean tenos?

[ocean coral]

nope I’m talking about when the release

no other mid tier than sub rex could kill it

maybe carno packs

but never solo

[full pewter]

That’s back on my point that we don’t know how it’ll go, on that I think we have to wait, but I think we can come up with ways to balance it

[ocean coral]

carno barely faster than it

and Maia can just catch up to it since carnos stam is trash rn

[full pewter]

Maia on a bipedal stance should be quick but poor mobility for sure

[ocean coral]

true but just suggesting something that would help balance out the game

[full pewter]

How’s the Maia gonna kill it though? Assuming it’s got low dps. I’m assuming it won’t be adequately killing anything bigger than cerato

My guess it the quad stance will have actual good damaging moves, at the cost of speed. While on biped it’s only got the ram, and idk how hard that’ll hit

Point is in this case Maia only has its ram, which would be hard to use offensively against something faster than it

[ocean coral]

pretty sure Maia will weigh 2 tons since carno can’t charge at it it could probably just face tank with its high health

[full pewter]

Maia will likely be the same weight as allo

[ocean coral]

my point is the current evrima roster can’t compete with it

allo and sub rex

only 2 mid tiers that could catch and kill a Maia

[full pewter]

You’re right, but this is inevitable no matter what gets added, it only stops at apexes

I think Maia could be decently avoidable if done right. Here’s my thinking

[ocean coral]

don’t get me wrong I think Maia is well balanced in my opinion

[full pewter]

Maia would only have good attacks on quad stance which is slower, so other Dino’s can at least evade it. Biped stance has poor mobility but great speed, so smaller Dino’s have to just dodge it’s side ram, which should have a punishment like falling over if it misses

[ocean coral]

Just don’t enjoy it killing other mid tiers and quite literally destroying them

and Maia is really tanky

[full pewter]

The mid tiers we currently have are in their own league, they are only really built to fight each other and small tiers, nothing bigger

These guys

So in this case all they need to be is capable of evading the larger mid tiers

[ocean coral]

yea

[full pewter]

Whether it’s through speed or agility

[ocean coral]

just hope another mid tier gets added

a carnivore that could actually fight back

[full pewter]

Allo is the only carnivore that’ll be a totally even matchup, I doubt Maia will handle Alberto though, and like I said I think carno packs can take them on

[ocean coral]

yea just saw the evrima roster and all tho Maia is heavier than Alberto and allo I really think it would put up a better fight than the current mid tiers

[full pewter]

Definitely should, I’d hope it has a good arsenal on quad stance

[limber hull]

omniraptor will be likely more than capable of hunting maias, same with troodons, we really don't need allo at this juncture

[ocean coral]

omni is a low tier, I am mainly focused about mid tiers and how they will counter maia

[limber hull]

who cares what tier omni is, it'll be great at killing maia as long as maia can bleed

it existing means any animal has a threat, as long as that animal isn't fully aquatic or constantly flying

Adding a carnivore of maia's size with maia is a horrible idea, because NOTHING will be able to deal with it

Maia lacks power, it's built around speed and tankiness

Any mid-tier carnivore would kick a maia's ass in a direct 1v1 situation

maia will not be able to moderate the mid-tier at all

[barren crater]

That's true

Thing with maia is, just like how Omni can group up, they can also group up. I doubt Omni OR troodon does well against maia groups. Not even max groups. Just 2 - 3 is enough to likely counter them.

So Maia will likely be oppressive, but it won't be any worse than Carno & Cera is right now on Spiro.

As long as the other herbis and carnis can shift + w away, it's fine

[limber hull]

sure, but deino can always moderate it because, y'know, deino

because it's staying in officials

[barren crater]

Possibly. I'd have to see Gateway Deino gameplay

[limber hull]

IDK man, I feel that adding allo will be far worse

[barren crater]

It would 100%

[limber hull]

Because maia is held back by its lower power

[barren crater]

I'm fine with Maia. What else can you even add?

[limber hull]

Exactly

It's the perfect way to start the mid-tier introduction

A low power, high speed herbivore that engages well with nesting and so on

[barren crater]

It can also be limited

Like its speed should be held back by poor agility in biped mode

[limber hull]

Yea

[barren crater]

Like current Carno

[limber hull]

I want allo to be saved for when we give it immediate competition, like allo and alberto at the same time

And also one powerful mid-tier herbivore, like styraco

[barren crater]

Agreed. I'd honestly add allo, alberto and para in one update though ngl

[limber hull]

Very fair

[barren crater]

Para as the clear 'apex'

of officials

[limber hull]

Para would be like maia, a tier above the rest, but held back by low power

[barren crater]

Yep.

[limber hull]

(and if they do it well, it'd have a fun call mechanic like galli, making it engaging and easy to find)

i do believe para 100% needs a call buff like galli

its defined by its audio

[barren crater]

A call buff like what though. Speed?

[limber hull]

and frankly, having an animal like that also be one of the loudest on the island would make it engaging for both carnis to hunt and easy for herbis to group up with

I wouldn't say speed. Potentially something else, like stamina boosts

[barren crater]

Yeah a time where it doesn't drain any stamina?

[limber hull]

Something like that

Or increases their regen

[barren crater]

i like the idea tbh. Hadrosaurs being loud is pretty much common in media lol

Just something you assign to them

[limber hull]

It also helps encourage them to be "herding herbivores" in a way that actually feels cool and befitting

I love the idea of paras being almost the noisy neighbours of The Isle, never shutting up lol

[barren crater]

I remember a cool idea where hadrosaurs could see nameplates from a lot further away than now and even be able to call to show their nameplates from across the map

[limber hull]

That'd be cool

I wanted a thing for para where it can make a short "song" for its 1 call, able to have unique notes and pitches to make its call unique, yet still evidently para

[barren crater]

Like maybe an additional call for grouping

[barren crater]

Genuinely a lot of cool ideas based around para and other hadros. I hope they're played a lot

[midnight heath]

I don't think people understand how important night is, the more I slow grow some creatures I realize just how vunerable you are during the day. Playables render from a pretty long ways away and it's very easy to get spotted while you're trying to get a drink or diet.

I just think night-time needs to look more appealing, the monochrome black/white isn't pleasing to the eye and you can't see your pretty skin but if it just had a little more color with some tweaks I think it'd be golden.

[midnight heath]

@maiden anvil I like your second idea for parasaurolophus! A melodic vibe to it's calls would be very pretty, especially with pitch differences between ages.

Unfortunately with the "sonic scream" I feel like that would be another pachy stun, players would abuse something that disorients others fairly fast just like they have in the past. Cool in theory but the execution wouldn't be ideal in my opinion.

Honestly if it stunted your audio for a brief bit that might work, similar to when something loud goes off and there's that familiar ringing. Having a lack of audio queues in a fight could actually be really effective.

[urban flax]

A defensive ability has to be useful

If it just distorts audio it's good for nothing
Except, ironically, some trolling

[midnight heath]

In the absent of audio queues this is exceptionally helpful for a herbivore actually! If they have young or an injured group member that can give them ample time to run off without their footsteps being heard! That and say an oncoming attacker just out of view wouldn't make a peep!

If a lack of audio wasn't an issue at all people wouldn't complain about not being able to hear carnos running towards them.

[urban flax]

But what good is it when you are the one in danger ?

Who cares about not hearing when you can see the para running away ?

Para isn't an ambusher, nor is it good at hiding because of its size

An allo won't stop biting you just because it temporarly cannot hear itself biting

[midnight heath]

You have a great point, that wouldn't be very helpful

[limber hull]

@daring talon deino isn't being taken off officials, apparently

stego is, deino isn't

[daring talon]

then
what is gonna stop deinos from literally doing whatever they want

[limber hull]

lmao idk

[daring talon]

its such a hilariously busted animal and they're removing the one thing that can kill it

[limber hull]

from what i've heard, Dondi intends to make it MUCH harder to grow, and Gateway won't be as forgiving as Spiro

[daring talon]

you cant kill it as troodon or utah because you get hit off its side while pouncing

[limber hull]

but I am on the same page of Deino not needing to stick around if stego isn't

[daring talon]

obviously cant kill it as carno
cerato gets grabbed or bit twice

like if you want something in the water make a midtier semi aquatic you dont have any other apexes

[limber hull]

that and it has one of the highest bleed resists in the game, along with the largest bloodpool and HP pool

[daring talon]

oh boy i cannot wait for immortal deinosuchus

[limber hull]

it's already immortal

the only thing killing it is itself. If it dies to a stego, it more than likely ran headfirst into one and died

[daring talon]

hear me out
maybe deino
should be dying to packs of utahs, carnos, etc on land

[limber hull]

i don't really agree with that

[daring talon]

or at the very least be unable to wipe them as a solo deino miles from water

[daring talon]

im talking like an even fight with 7 utahs

[limber hull]

deino just really needs something to kick it to death

[daring talon]

not like a die with 0 effort on the other guys part to 2 utahs

[limber hull]

nah, even 7 omnis shouldn't be a thing to hunt deinos. It's got bleed res and insanely high blood pool

[daring talon]

yeah
so it shouldnt

[limber hull]

frankly, omni should always ignore it

[daring talon]

the goofygator either needs a nerf so it stops being better cerato
or
there needs to be an apex that makes it poop itself at the thought of going too far inland

[limber hull]

i'm honestly more on team "get deino out of officials" than "make deino die to omni for some reason"

[daring talon]

i could also see adding a pseudo apex or very big midtier like allo working

would 3 allos fighting a deino on land make sense

[limber hull]

not really, since again, bleed predators

[daring talon]

ok then nerf its bleed resist?

why is it so high anyways

[limber hull]

crocidilian moment

[daring talon]

i mean i get that but balancewise why is it so high

to the point where it LITERALLY CAN NEVER DIE no matter how bad you are at it
unless you chose to fight stegos or other deinos

[limber hull]

its a croc

i honestly am against the idea of nerfing its bleed res, because i heavily dislike nerfing a creature so omni can hunt even more stuff

i legit would just rather deino either get launched to unofficials or something else is done to moderate it

because omnis killing deinos would just be stupid imho

[daring talon]

omniraptor players explaining that carno shouldnt be able to fight stego in a group of four but then turning around and explaining that yes they, a small tier, should totally be able to solo a rex

[limber hull]

yea i kinda hate omni players, and i used to be an omni main before troo existed

[daring talon]

at the very least id like to see 4-6 ceratos kill a solo deino (WITH TIME, EFFORT, AND SKILL ON THE CERATOS PART) that goes too far inland

because chances are the ceratos have a corpse of something and the deino wants it

[limber hull]

ehh, again, idk

deino kinda also resists cerato

since it can't puke, at all

[daring talon]

i get that
however
6 ceratos
vs a semi aquatic that is nowhere near water
trying to steal the corpse
from the creature designed around stealing and keeping corpses from other creatures

and i find it absolutely silly that a semi aquatic gets to ignore what it is and go bully entire packs of brawler corpse bully midtiers ALONE and miles from any water

[midnight heath]

Someone already mentioned it but I 100% agree that deinos "grab" needs to be messed with, tiny gators can grab things twice their size because of how the weight system works for them, that and there's really not anything you can do if you get grabbed even if they let go, normally by the time you float back up to the surface they have enough stamina to finish you off.

I've been grabbed on land (deino in the brush sorta deal) and they've still had enough stamina to carry me to the water and drown me.

[barren crater]

Current deino would likely get killed on land vs that many allos.

It doesn’t have the stamina to kill that many allos

Well if they’re at the larger end of the estimates

[daring talon]

deino is like if they gave bob mosa legs
it is very not fun to play against

[burnt bone]

@fringe needle I'm pretty sure deinos can be pinned when they are fresh spawn, they spawn a bit over 100kg. Unless theres some bug/feature that I'm unaware of that makes them unpinnable, they should be pinnable while under 450kg. Its just that they very quickly grow to 450kg and can no longer be pinned.

Also I got no clue why omni has deino on its diet, its in the top 3 worst dinos for it to hunt that will ever be in game, and is probably the worst thing to hunt currently.

[gentle flint]

@hoary elm Although I agree that the colors should come back, at least most of them, people definitely CAN and WILL always complain about the color variety, which is why they removed a lot of the colors to begin with

[hoary elm]

what were the complains about tho? to this day I still have no idea what was the purpose of deleting some of them, someone mentioned to me once about the reason for that were camo skins but tbh it’s still possible to make camo skins now so sounds like rather stupid reason imo

[gentle flint]

I think personally, this was never confirmed, but I believe that the colors were removed to get rid of a lot of the albino/hypermelanistic options for “realism” purposes because everyone would always complain about there being all white/black Dino’s around the map.

A lot of people would always complain that they needed a more narrowed down palette because.. I dunno they hate looking at people. Which I don’t understand why you wouldn’t just kill someone if you don’t like them, especially since this game has that option 🤷‍♂️

The devs said it was because you could get those colors by playing with brightness/saturation but I can confirm for quite a few colors that’s just outright false

[lyric pollen]

@barren zephyr "the male gets to eat first" that is rp stuff not an actual mechanic

[hoary elm]

strange decision because in the end of the day they didn’t change pallettes for all the dinos, like for example teno and croc still can be albino (and croc all black) yet they took away the brightest gray color option for raptors, welp

[slender vigil]

@gentle flint as a rule of thumb.. i eat all the solid white/black gators i see.. they almost always tend to be cannis once they get big enough ... was the same way in Red Dead Redemption2. Chinese PvPers always dressed in solid white to stand out

[vital laurel]

oh god that sounds bad

[ivory sandal]

Imagine your group kills something and your leader just bes a jerk about things and doesn't eat meaning no one else can because the leader didn't get their meal first💀💀💀

[vital laurel]

yeah and how would that even work what would prevent a non high ranked group memember from pressing E

[gentle flint]

Which is totally valid! But removing the option of white in general from a lot of the other playables because “they tend to be cannis” means you can’t use white in any combination to make cool skins, which is just.. sad.

[lyric pollen]

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOO + how tf would that be an actual mecahnic?

[lyric pollen]

fr thats what i was thinking

#general-feedback message this guy gets it social ranks would be cool cuz of sparring and stuff but the buffs that andy gave were NOT good

[vital laurel]

aint no way im going to wait for some internet werido who is the "alpha" to eat before i can eat lamo

[ivory sandal]

God even thinking about the concept is so bad...

I geuss it would just.... disable a required function to play the game (eating) until someone higher up in the pack ate first...? It's so awful good lord

[gentle flint]

I’m pretty sure they removed a lot of the white options from teno, like I know the male crest used to have a nice white but now it just kinda gets a gross grey at the lowest saturation. But admittedly, I haven’t tried in a minute.

[low vapor]

Ty m8. Appreciate it.

[slender vigil]

@gentle flintyea they shouldnt remove it from the options at all.... i mean we have no clue what colors dinos really had.. an argument could be made for even more color options , brighter , flashier colors.. as you can see in some lizards and frogs

[ivory sandal]

The best way to do social orders is already in-game anyways. Gallimimus group leaders appearently supply speed benefits passively to group members who gave a worse diet than the leader afaik

So I just don't get the point on asking for disabling eating as a mechanic

That just leads to no one playing together anymore and thus a solid 90% of the fun anyone who plays animals below 1000 kilograms get from this game is gone

[hoary elm]

I’d actually understand removing these if they added skin mutations option when hatched instead, otherwise it’s kinda meh

[slender vigil]

@hoary elm i would just like more of an option to change my skin pattern from my hatchling camo , to more flashy adult

[void crow]

@barren zephyr I believe there are going to be mutations in the future, so the majority of the pack would probably not challenge them, so it adds some hierarchy. Then the strongest can beat up anyone who challenges them. 💪

If there weren't mutations though, people obviously wouldn't go along with this and would just kill the leader, but with the mutations the biggest will probably be the leader. If the males or females were bigger though, then everyone would just go to whichever is bigger, so you might get a male or female leader.

[fathom tulip]

Since humans are the ones controlling the animals there's hardly ever any infighting for dominance, since it's not really something we do as much. Stronger mutated animals would more likely be allocated for fighting/hunting rather than dominance/leadership. Also the fact that it's a game would make anyone who's trying to act too dominant seem kinda cringe and most players would either wonder off or start a different group without them. Happens now even without mutations

[void crow]

Yeah, that's why it's hard, because people will be people. 🤷‍♂️

[fathom tulip]

Had a guy in a utah pack once pounce and kill other utahs saying "there can only be one male." only to get bodied by two carnos because the pack didnt have the numbers to fend them off anymore lol

[limber hull]

lmao

[void crow]

[limber hull]

he died with his beliefs intact, I'll give him that much

[urban flax]

@barren zephyr There is no 7.0 update

[barren zephyr]

changed it lol

[barren jewel]

@quiet horizon average croc player be like lmaoo

[quiet horizon]

bro if you dont think they need a nerf

you do not know balence my friend

[urban flax]

Stego doesn't need a nerf

[quiet horizon]

really

then why are two stegos sitting here fighting 6 adult crocs

they killed 10 adult crocs

while all being bit at the same time

explain bro

[urban flax]

Because they know the crocs are bad enough to manage to lose that fight despite having every stat advantage

[quiet horizon]

show me your logic

how are crocs bad

idk im not even arguing as someone who plays fps i know what needs nerfs that mf stego gotta be nerfed

[urban flax]

My logic is that stego has 6k health and its highest damaging attack deals 1200 damage. Deino has 8k health and its main attack deals 500 damage.
If 10 deinos manage to lose against 2 stegos, they're unbelievably bad

[quiet horizon]

really so come in here and kill them then

i bit stego 4 times

as a full grown

in the head

and he ate them

either these stegos are hacking or

im just terrible at the game

and every croc on na3 is terrible at the game

[urban flax]

I don't know about you specifically, but most deino players are terrible at the game, yes

[quiet horizon]

im sitting here like mind blown

[urban flax]

There's also a possibility the stegos were hacking, although most hacks are speed hacks, and I'm not sure invulnerability or extra health hacks exist

[quiet horizon]

they never laid down after i bit them twice

[barren jewel]

you can just swin away from the stego, your playing the only apex in the game and complaining about other dinos stfu

[quiet horizon]

im not saying crocs are balenced either

im simply saying these 2 stego in front of me rn have ate like 10 head shots

and haven't even healed or laid down

[urban flax]

Statistically not possible, that'd be 10k damage, stegos only have 6k health
Either most of those hits weren't actually headshots, either as previously said, they were hacking

Stego is the only animal to take 2x damage on its head

[quiet horizon]

idk im faily new this is wild

there sitting in the middle of the water

just apexing everything

[barren jewel]

ive never played stego or deino cuz theyre slow boring and cheesy try out cerato or carno and learn some skill

[quiet horizon]

these stegos are built diffy then

[urban flax]

I get your anger, game can feel weird at times
But believe me, stego itself isn't the most problematic creature

[quiet horizon]

i was a full grown carno earlier

guess what killed me

a stego

[urban flax]

It's normal to die to a stego as a carno, no surprise there

They're in a completely different league, and carno isn't meant to punch up above its own weight

[quiet horizon]

i agree 100 percent crocs are even more annoying sometimes

[barren jewel]

how tfffff that sounds like skill issue to mw

[quiet horizon]

not when im getting attaced by raptors with the stego kleft

they were cross packed i got unlucky

[urban flax]

It really sucks then

[barren jewel]

so what happened im assuming is you werent perserving your stam when fighting the raptors so you couldnt run from the stego. am i wrong

[quiet horizon]

there was 10 adult raptors and 3 stegos

they just hawked me down

im new bro im nowhere near good at the game yet just confused on why two stego can dominate the water will full grown crocs

[urban flax]

When you're scenting, you may see an icon with 3 red raptors appear on your compass. It shows you megapacks and mixpacks and, as a general rule of thumb, you should avoid them

[barren jewel]

right but if you used stam correctly you could have ran far from the stegos long enough that you can regain your stam and do it again when they come back, fighting raptors can be tough tho the trick is to find a tree and stay next to it. if they pounce you you can use the tree to get them off. then when the stegos come back go find a diffrent tree

[urban flax]

Actually when that happens, deinos will usually bite each other while trying to bite the stegos, or bite at their tails and deal reduced damage
While the stego can swing its tail through them and land multiple headshots at once

The creatures that can best kill stegos are omniraptors, troodons and ceras

And other stegos obviously

[quiet horizon]

yeah true

thank yall for the info

[barren jewel]

its because crocs are op and stegos are the only counter rn

[quiet horizon]

they have slaughterd this whole server lol

[quiet horizon]

i agree

id like to see more balance come

or something

so far stego and crocs are like the only ones i can see getting a small nerf

[barren jewel]

it will come in the form of other dinosaurs being added. trust me when the spino comes out the croc is just gonna be another meal

[urban flax]

Apparently stego will be removed from official servers in preparation for the apexes (trike and rex) that are coming, and deino will be made much harder to grow, and receive a "kit adjustment"

[quiet horizon]

i dnt even wanna play croc but its the only thing I learned so far

and a lil bit of raptor and cera

[urban flax]

Cera is still over-performing in most situations, but not as bad as when it released

[urban flax]

Current balance goes that way :
Ptera is immortal, as it always was, but can't do much
Deino is OP but dies to stego
Stego is kinda boring but it's the only thing that can kill deino
Cera is a very powerful all-rounder
Carno is in a very weird spot, bad at everything it's supposed to do but it can kill ceras
Omni is good
Troodon is incredibly powerful but needs a coordinated pack
Galli is very good, not much of a killer but very easy to survive with
Beipi is meh because of the map being bad
Teno, pachy, dryo and hypsi are extinct

[quiet horizon]

this is perfect example

damn

what else is getting added bubul

[urban flax]

Herrera, diablo and dilo are next in line
Among these three herrera is probably the first one that will be coming

The full roster will have 57 playables

[quiet horizon]

holy moly

when is this coming 57 is alot

that would be dope

[urban flax]

They'll be coming over the next updates, but that will probably take a few years

[quiet horizon]

nice imagine a megladon

they can do alot with the game

[urban flax]

Especially considering there's also gonna be 2 factions of humans (or rather humanoids) and strains (mutated creatures)

[quiet horizon]

i figured if they had more of a budget stuff would prolly be moving faster

[urban flax]

There is no megalodon, nor any fully aquatic creature, planned
The map isn't adapted for them

Though once the game is complete, devs have suggested they may consider an aquatic DLC featuring a special map and aquatic creatures

[quiet horizon]

yeah figured they could do something that way

wonder why the production has been so slow on this game tho

it could be huge

[urban flax]

They actually have sufficient budget, but they're aiming for quality and, since the game is kind of an unexplored territory, they have to take things slow to make sure everything works correctly

[quiet horizon]

i respect that

i came from acecu

[urban flax]

They're also still working on the foundation of the game in terms of mechanics, which take a lot of time to be done right
We can expect updates to come out faster once all of those are done

[quiet horizon]

he played it live in front of lots of people

yeah rushing it just brings more bugs and fixed

[urban flax]

Rushing the game is basically the reason legacy has been abandoned

[quiet horizon]

yeah

[slender vigil]

gators kinda do feel nerfed at adult compared to all the smaller stages . 02,stamina,water,food all feel like they run out faster, I can understand the speed reduction , and higher food requirements. But i really dont like feeling weaker as i get larger. ..
Damage output doesnt really matter since its so rare to find adult prey to take down except steggos it seems. And i've learned my lesson trying to deal with those things

[urban flax]

Water and food drain, afaik, stays the same throughout every growth stage for every species
And yes, all juvies have much more stamina than adults, to a point that is absurd

[slender vigil]

yea it seems like it should be flipped around if anything

and i havent searched the cheat sites yet. but i am starting to think fast regen or god mode is a option

[north quiver]

speed hacking is definitely an option

don’t hack though. no one likes hacking on the silly dino game

[formal atlas]

Gators and stegos are powerful because they’re different tiers of Dino. Deino is an apex. It’s meant to be strong. That’s what apex means. As the game finishes and gets flushed out more apex predators will be added but please stop asking to nerf things without seeing the bigger picture. Nerfing them now means they’d have to rebalance later and that’s literally double working themselves.

[proud coral]

Been said a couple times by devs that Deino and Stego, at least right now, are not considered apexes. At the same time, tiers are mostly made up by players and shouldn't be treated as some all-defining factor.

[plush pecan]

Also not to mention stegos were also probably very strong also in the past when dinos were still alive and the reason stegos shouldnt be nerfed is so it can be a good challenge for carnis

[fathom tulip]

@desert sleet People would just use the /kill to be petty and deny carnivores food if it made them non edible. I don't get why you'd make them non edible? If people want to sacrifice a dino to feed their friends they don't need a kill command, they can just walk up and bite them

[desert sleet]

I wouldn't care what was decided, but standing in a hole for over an hour is a game killer.

[fathom tulip]

I mean you can contact a mod, go to a different server, or just have a kill button that still leaves you edible. Making you inedible just adds an unnecessary problem

People have already made that suggestion but better: press esc to enter the menu, a 60 second cooldown starts (sort of like safelogging), and then you get the option to suicide and respawn once the timer is up

[desert sleet]

I mean, games coming up on 10 years old, surprised we're still discussing this suggestion at this point.

[limber hull]

@modest pewter press F10

it'll turn off those hud elements

[modest pewter]

All these years and I never figured it out, tysm!

[limber hull]

all good

[limber hull]

@inland vigil having envenomated visible through bushes would make Troodon FAR more fun to play, I entirely agree

it would also vastly help with pack tactics and keeping the group focused

[inland vigil]

Yeah lack of constant grass and seeing the cool venom effect would make them a lot more fun to play

It's just as they are now everyone ends up dying because you're basically fighting blind

[hearty jewel]

Troodon should be WAY more threatening than it is right now :<

[limber hull]

i wouldn't call troodon non-threatening

playing it, it's def not something to brush off, it's arguably one of the strongest punch-up creatures in the game

the issue is actually maintaining that endurance hunt, which is hard when your prey often disappears in the middle of a fight

[hearty jewel]

Absolutely

[limber hull]

like, combat-wise, i'd say troodon is good, if not VERY strong

its issues arise from other factors, like the game's extremely low emphasis on tracking

it's far too hard to keep track of your target

[hearty jewel]

I think that the LMB Bite should give off venom too, but that's just me

[urban flax]

I think it makes more sense to have venom only be applied through a specific attack. Also with how strong venom is, having it be applied on regular bites would be kinda OP, and defeat the purpose of the pounce...

It would also prevent harassing a target who is not fully envenomated yet with bites

[limber hull]

I think venom bite should be a thing, but it should be weight-based

You know how hard it is to envenomate a moving, small target with troodon’s pounce?

The pounce has so much momentum, you often straight up can’t hit targets with it

[final scaffold]

can anyone tell me why i logged out in a bush with ppl protecting me and when i log back in im dead?

and it was same server

[urban flax]

Then let it be an alt-RMB or something that doesn't replace the regular bite
I'm still in favor of venom being limited, so you wouldn't want to waste it on any enemy you see

[limber hull]

@fringe needle generation 1 (or tribals, whatever you wanna call them) are specifically adapted to be good climbers if that helps

they literally have limbs and appendages designed for climbing

[midnight stirrup]

@scenic delta #general-feedback message

I would reccomend not putting multiple suggestions into one, now the checkmark and X become useless since we can’t agree with absolutely everything and disagree with absolutely everything

[scenic delta]

should i remove the post?

[midnight stirrup]

No, but for future reference compiling a bunch of suggestions into one is usually a bad idea, since nobody can upvote or downvote your suggestion at that rate

[midnight heath]

I genuinely only downvoted because of the nerfing carno hunger drain, I agree with a lot of the points but the one I didn't agree with is a pretty big one. I assume that's where a lot of the downvotes are stemming from.

[limber hull]

@gleaming silo gateway is a bigger playable area than Spiro

[north quiver]

I for one don’t like the thought of carno’s hunger being buffed right now. until it gets changed to where it’s a crappy medium game hunter and a good small game hunter, I’ll never want a hunger buff. if it does get changed into being just that, then I’ll 10/10 support a buff to hunger. ram is just too powerful right now, so 2-3 carnos with the slightest coordination obliterate basically everything that aren’t deinos and stegos

[limber hull]

i think it needs a stomach size reduction, not a hunger buff

[north quiver]

like

it requires less food to fill up?

[limber hull]

yea

so the opposite of what cerato has

[north quiver]

I can get behind that when that ram gets taken care of (if that ever happens lmao)

[lyric pollen]

@mild topaz the game may not be that optimized but 1060 is almost 8 years old

[icy lion]

@proven prawn Sorry your post got ignored by the bot, but that's planned for every species

[prime prairie]

what yall think abt the bleed of pachy? its good idea that they have not much bleed, but isnt it lil bit to weak with this bleed? what yall think?

[midnight heath]

I just think pachy in general is pretty weak now

According to the wiki

[limber hull]

that's for legacy lol

never use the wiki for any viable information

[midnight heath]

It has a Legacy and Ervima section

[limber hull]

pachy does not have pathetic bleed resist at all

it has better bleed resist than omni, troodon, carno, stego, teno, dryo, hypsi, ptera, galli

because it has bleed resist

[midnight heath]

So is it just a low blood pool then?

[limber hull]

the other animals i listed do not

[midnight heath]

Because I've bled out twice as pachy fighting Omnis

[limber hull]

it has proportionally as much blood as 500kg will allocate

which is 500

[midnight heath]

500 is what someone mentioned via Reddit

so I wasn't sure

[limber hull]

like how an omni has 450kg, so it has 450 blood

[limber hull]

yea that's just omni for you

[midnight heath]

I'm not sure what all with bleed tends to attack omnis though galis aside really

Not anything it can't run or jump onto something from that is

[limber hull]

omni's bleed is nuts. Even ceras will be going down quickly with enough omnis

and ceras have very good bleed res

[midnight heath]

Ah so they just have insane bleed then

[limber hull]

yea basically

[midnight heath]

I know I bled out as a carno not long ago to 4 omnis

I just let them kill me at that rate, I was going to bleed out regardless.

[fiery swan]

The thing with the nutrients is annoying yeah, accidentally filling up another slot a bit or more, but that has sense since u make nutrition combos even with the same nutrient more than once

There should be a nutrition score somewhere u can look at, while idk where it is or an updated version

[prime prairie]

bro i bleeded out of 2 gallis pls xD

[midnight heath]

I'm pretty positive gallis does okay bleed, I've nearly been kicked to death by two as a sub cera

[full pewter]

@barren zephyr That ravine is just one of the many “unfortunate” aspects of isla spiro, our current map. Gateway, which is a new map coming soon (hopefully) should fix most of this. Should at least make them more visible

The ravine in spiro is something everyone will fall into at some point, myself included. Once you get a feel where it runs it becomes less of a big deal

[midnight heath]

The folige that surronds it isn't very common, you learn to avoid those bushes

[full pewter]

Exactly they are very specific to the ravine

[midnight heath]

There's a few riverways with them but they're very rare, that ravine is basically the only common place you'd see them

[pale storm]

Every time I see those particular bushes around anywhere, I get flashbacks of falling into that ravine and dying. It's annoying, but eventually, you learn to be cautious and to look for those bushes.

Also, I want to take back what I said about troodon. I was very incorrect about most of my statements. I got on last night and did a few tests, recorded some things, and ended some juvies for the sake of science.

Scavenging is definitely viable, and it appears they fixed the intolerance issue I was describing with bodies. It takes a reasonable amount of time for a body to become completely inedible to a troodon, same as anything that isn't deino or cera, so that's nice.

Now I have no idea if there have been any venom tweaks, but I have to say, I nearly killed a carno by myself, so maybe it isn't as weak as I previously thought. It's hard to tell, but I'm quite happy with troodon.

[pale storm]

Now, I've been wanting to complain about Pachy for a bit. It seems really weak, even in large groups now. These guys went from being able to terrorize carnos to being absolute chew toys. I'm assuming they nerfed their health, idk.

For the only dino that has bone-break abilities right now, you'd think that most people would avoid them, but half the time I see people make a bee-line for groups of them, outjuke them with the bonk stall that they have, bite their tails and kill them in less than a minute.

And having full fractures doesn't deter hardly anyone either. I have seen my opponents, and many others, shrug off having every bone in their body broken and still go after me and successfully kill somebody. For as punishing as the combat can be, bone break doesn't seem punishing enough, at least with Pachy.

Imagine if you could get an infection while having bone break? What if the more time you sustain a fracture, the more time it takes to heal? Real life fractures make the bones more brittle and more susceptible to injury. There is NO incentive to not attack pachies and there is very little risk unless the pachies have tenos or stegos on their side.

Or at the very least, give pachy its health back. It was fine as it was with the original or slightly tweaked health pool.

Back when it was first released, minus how busted its attack really was, its health was just right. You could endure about 6 hits from a full-grown carno, and a little less if you got hit on your weak spot. Now it's like 4 or 3, which is pretty bad, coupled with the fact that their attack sucks.

That, of course, we also have to look at what kind of animal Pachy is supposed to be. To me, it seems like a lap dog to other herbies. Pachies stick together in large groups amomgst groups of themselves or typically mixpack, deterring other predators from preying on them. Alone or in pairs, they can preyed on by larger groups, but as a large group, they shouldn't be messed with. This isn't the case.

Pachies get annihilated in their own nesting grounds with diet foods unless they have a body guard, which even then, there's no guarantee that you're going to survive should they kill your teno gaurd or outjuke and take you out faster than the stego can react.

So Pachy is essentially situational prey. Prime if it is alone, and near impermeable in a group.

Pachies can't run fast enough to escape either a Carno or cerato, so naturally, their only option is to fight.

[rare fractal]

Pachy can outrun a Cerato

[pale storm]

So, tweak their hp, tweak their attack, do something. They need a fix. Make it so you have a chance to survive and defend yourself as a pachy and more people will start playing pachy and increase the food pool.

[rare fractal]

They’re both faster and have more stamina

[pale storm]

Lemme check the stats, if they're correct or not.

Cera is a point faster than Pachy.

[rare fractal]

Cerato has never been faster than Pachy

Are you using the wiki?

[pale storm]

Adult pachy is 40.1 km/h, Cera is 40,2 km/h

Yeah

[rare fractal]

Wiki has been outdated for years

It’s not maintained anymore

[pale storm]

Then how come someone is adding Envirma data?

[rare fractal]

Because at one point it was maintained with Evrima data

It isn’t anymore

Pachys current run speed is 41~, tenos is 40.5, Cerato is slightly slower than teno

[pale storm]

So slightly faster

What about stamina?

[rare fractal]

I can’t remember the exact numbers I just know it’s at least a 20 second difference between the two

Because those numbers aren’t in their stat sheets or recorded anywhere and I can’t remember data from tests a few months ago we did

[pale storm]

Ah

That also answers one of my questions, nice.

[rare fractal]

I do know definitively that Pachy can get much further than a Cerato when sprinting in a straight line tho

[pale storm]

So as it functions currently, Pachy is more of a flight than fight creature. Decent stam, can pretty much outrun a cera and make it to higher ground. Hit and running might be the way I go then.

[cyan flame]

Keep in mind the potential changes based on diet for run time

[pale storm]

I won't lie, I miss the days of being able to terrify a pack of carnos with just a few pachies.

[rare fractal]

I don’t

[cyan flame]

But pachy should at least be faster, so into the forest, crouch and sneak away is the option

[rare fractal]

Pachy was the most powerful animal in the game when that was possible

[pale storm]

I agree, since theyre already going with that direction

[rare fractal]

Yes

[vital laurel]

Ppl forget its not 2018-2020 a lot it seems like. Even the 16 series which was budget when they released is now closing on 4 years old now

[pale storm]

I am so ready for dilo

Who else is

[lucid robin]

bumps casually

[lucid robin]

bruh, nobody cared before this-
#moderation message

also i wish they wouldnt delete it, so that u could at least replace it with a real suggestion and not have to wait 6 hours

[valid brook]

its a newerish decision we've made to not allow it as it simply floods the channels

[lucid robin]

the old suggestions do get pretty forgotten / ignored after a while, though. i feel like no suggestions posted in #general-feedback ever really go anywhere. they just get posted, voted on, buried in other suggestions, forgotten, repeat.

anyhow.. getting a bit offtopic here.

[valid brook]

The devs do look through them fairly often, and do take note one the ones they find interesting, but do keep in mind that if the devs do like it, it doesnt mean it will be added next update, rather maybe further down the line instead

[barren crater]

Saw a video where one tap pounce lowers a Pachy’s blood pool by 34% if it decides to run

And pachy was given a bleed res bump in update 6 as well

[limber hull]

yea, exactly, omni moment

again, carnivores are nuts this update, herbis just have to cope

i'm pretty sure pachy can't even knockdown omni with an uncharged ram anymore, which is just SAD

[full pewter]

@obtuse fractal To answer one of your points, gateway will have hollow logs juvis can hide in

[limber hull]

@full pewter how does it "only have standard bite" while also having a side ram lol

far less attacks, only standard bite
side ram, functions like carnos charge but at an angle, but only lasts a few seconds before the Maia stumbles and falls, leaving it open to attack

[full pewter]

Probs should have reworded mb, maybe I thought of side ram and other attacks in different categories for some reason

[limber hull]

also an attack that makes maia stumble and fall sounds... really bad

like, literal suicide levels of "why would you use this"

[full pewter]

It’s to prevent Maias from running around and side ramming the heck out of slower Dino’s like cerato and teno, assuming it remains speedy like legacy

Carnos doing it with their charge is enough, it’s to encourage side ram to be used more defensively, like if an allo or Alberto gains on you from the side with ambush speed or something

[limber hull]

i mean, like ram, just walk out of the way lol

if maia lacks agility, you just move away from its direct path

[full pewter]

Plus it also realistically makes sense, if you make a sharp turn from the side and miss you stumble and fall, doesn’t mean you take damage

[rare fractal]

Realism being the justification for an ability usage concequence in this game is quite funny to me

[full pewter]

That’s the point, it’s to help small tiers evade it better, it’s supposed to be used more on predators it’s size like allo and Alberto

So what I’m getting at is that quad stance is for fighting and biped is for evasion on Maias part, smaller tiers can evade the quad stance if they want, and dodge the biped stance, biped stance is what I wanted to be balanced most

[rare fractal]

What’s the primary context side ram as an ability would be used

[full pewter]

Sure sure, I just wanted to throw that point out still

[rare fractal]

Because it sounds like it’d be to get something off of you before gaining distance

Adding a stumble on use sorta just, prevents that from occurring

Unless we’re expecting maia to have decent 1v1s with allo and Alberto

In which case a side ram that staggers you would severely limit its viability

[full pewter]

That’s why I came up with the quad stance moveset, that’s the one with actual fighting prowess, especially it’s back kick

[rare fractal]

Why would it’s side ram knock it over from a combative POV

What’s the point of adding that weakness

There’s already going to be animation frames where the maia will be locked into the action

[full pewter]

Im saying the Maia should fall over if it misses, if it lands it then it could bounce off and continue running

[rare fractal]

Which if you’re not getting hit should be more than enough an opening

[limber hull]

wait, hold on, if you're in the stance for the purpose of GETTING AWAY from a predator, wouldn't you falling over and losing all momentum entirely obliterate that

[rare fractal]

Why are you even trying to attack an animal you’re attempting to evade at that point

[full pewter]

That’s if you miss, like I said

[rare fractal]

There’s also a matter of collision physics just stopping you anyway

[limber hull]

yea but like, why do it instead of just moving'

[full pewter]

I’ve tried to establish it as a defensive move

[full pewter]

It’s just if it happens, it’s also in the concept so im mostly just speculating how it’ll play out, we’re getting it regardless

Or when it could be useful I mean

[obtuse fractal]

got to this late but im really glad this will be a thing. now, if they cant be damaged from outside forces biting through the walls that'd be even better. no damage should be registered even if a giant dino can clip its head inside

[full pewter]

The situation I’m trying to solve, is how can we prevent a situation where Maias are just running around side ramming the heck out of everything, we already get this with carnos, but giant unstoppable speedy Maias would be crazy

[limber hull]

not giving them 350 ram damage would be a start

[rare fractal]

The issue I’m seeing with that is that if Maia had a defensive attack that attacks in a direction it can’t sprint in, then it’s stationary, if something is fast enough to match your speed as you run to necessitate the use of that ability it’s also probably far smaller than you are, in both cases it doesn’t really help it in combative matchups it’d need to defend itself in cuz ideally maia is using speed to save itself from targets too big to defend from.

Like as a hypothetical, if an allo or Alberto is positioning to fight you, is running away not a good option? Ram would only be a usable ability if the target can match or exceed your speed as nothing would be capable of positioning beside you as you run unless that’s the case.

It seems to me that maia being slower than either Alberto or allo would be…..profoundly unlikely. And if they are they can just bite behind you.
So it sounds like the ability is best used when relatively stationary, forced onto your back foot or when guarding something like a nest….in that case it sounds incredibly counterproductive to have an attack that targets your flanks as an animal that needs to leverage its speed to be played optimally, to compensate for it not being a tank. The predators can just target your head or tail, and if they bait a single attack out you basically just die.

Seems poorly optimized and n concept for something in Maias size range and opponents

[limber hull]

like, carno is only dominant because its ram is designed to nuke whatever it hits out of existence

[rare fractal]

Yeah everything Carno can hit with ram borderline dies if it’s able to hit

[limber hull]

one of the highest damages of any attack in the game (beaten by deino bite and stego swing), knockdowns and scales with headshots

there's a reason carno feels dominant

[rare fractal]

You’re going to stack a 350 damage burst with 2 additional bites at least

All of them can gain headshot multipliers

[limber hull]

even though carno has HORRID stats and should, by all accounts, be literally the worst animal in the game

it is carried by the fact it has a literal warhead of an attack

if maia has an actually sensible amount of damage, it's not going to replicate carno's dominance

[rare fractal]

So you’re looking at a standard maximum of 1,050 if you’re just accounting for the general 1.5x headshot multiplier

[full pewter]

Not sure about Alberto but what about allo with its ambush speed? Wouldn’t be surprised if that’s faster than Maias run

[limber hull]

we still don't know if that's actually what allo is getting

[rare fractal]

Depends on what an allo could do to a maia before the allo loses the stam or speed to continue chasing

[limber hull]

so accounting for ambush speed before we actually have any solid proof its getting ambush speed is silly imho

[rare fractal]

If an allo isn’t outputting enough damage to get maia below half Hp in that short amount of time it can probably just keep running

[rare fractal]

Even when accounting for it it doesn’t really change much unless allo has like….the highest burst dps in the roster

Maia has a ton of health to shave through before it’s going down

[limber hull]

2800 is nothing to scoff at

maia isn't going to die so easily with its combination of endurance and speed

[rare fractal]

If allo can do enough meaningful damage in that short amount of time we’d have bigger problems

Like allo borderline oneshot comboing eachother to death

[full pewter]

I’d hope allo couldn’t, maybe it could pin a Maia but not enough to kill it before running out of stam, helps encourage pack hunting

[rare fractal]

That would be profoundly lame and disappointing tbh

Allo pinning a maia is cursed as hell

[limber hull]

if an allo can pin a maia

[full pewter]

If an Omni can pin another Omni, and allo and Maia are the same weight, just consistency

[limber hull]

okay but an allo can't leap upon its prey

like omni has the ability to jump onto the prey and pin them to the ground

allo would struggle more

[rare fractal]

Massive differences in the builds of both animals and the weights of both as well….there’s a titanic logistical wall preventing that from occurring.

Also omnis pinning anything their weight or smaller is already a design tragedy enough we don’t need more of it

[full pewter]

I don’t see it looking exactly like Omni, just executing the same task in an allo way

[limber hull]

if allo can pin maia, i legit already think maia is trash tier

there's no way it's viable in that situation

[rare fractal]

Hands down unviable

[full pewter]

Idk if you tackle someone you’re weight you knock them over

[limber hull]

by pinning maia, you remove its ability to move, its primary defense tool, and then its just kinda dead

[full pewter]

Like I said if Maia can get off with little damage and leave the allo without stam

[rare fractal]

A: No not necessarily, if someone is prepared for that they can resist those forces.

B: Maia is a quadruped built like a cow.

C: Why on earth would anyone ever want that interaction in game

[limber hull]

who cares lol, a pin is death. You can't run, you can't fight back, a second allo can literally shred you while you lay helplessly

[full pewter]

True, an allo could also just pin another immediately

[limber hull]

exactly

[rare fractal]

It’s also just…..giga levels of cringe for allo to pin maia

[limber hull]

mainly that, yea

[rare fractal]

Like depths of just pure “ew” I can’t even describe

[full pewter]

If we need to solve this then we need to think how pinning works,

[limber hull]

or we can just not let allo pin maia

like that just should not be a thing

[rare fractal]

I don’t want allo pinning maia for the same reason I don’t want charge knocking down teno

[limber hull]

omni is using its ENTIRE bodyweight to pin, allo can't really climb on top of its prey, so it would struggle more

[rare fractal]

It makes their combat absurdly dull and lame, and makes group tactics overpowered as hell

[full pewter]

Like how do you fix Omnis situation, cause it’d look silly seeing an Omni on the side of another Omni without the victim falling over, same situation with Maia/allo imo

[limber hull]

you don't, it's a different situation

they aren't doing the same thing

so it should not be treated as if they are

[full pewter]

Allo is looking like it’ll have some kinda lunge or pounce that’ll behave like Omnis

Where it hangs on the side of bigger ones and pins smaller ones

[limber hull]

an allo isn't pouncing its entire bodyweight onto a maia and slamming it to the ground, it's more than likely trying to grab, push and so on to even get them into a pinned position, which is much harder than throwing your entire weight at the target

[rare fractal]

Why does one example of a bad mechanical interaction justify its replication

Pin is trash in its current state

[full pewter]

What’s your solution?

[rare fractal]

Like logistics aside it’s a lame ass interaction

[rare fractal]

Remove it entirely

[full pewter]

Disagree but have your opinion

[rare fractal]

Pin unironically necessitates that every animal smaller than Omni has a hard counter to it

Just because of how pin works

[full pewter]

Just avoid it? Dodge?

[rare fractal]

It’s effectively a 400 dmg attack that requires about as much positioning and skill as landing a normal bite

[limber hull]

i mean, irregardless, allo just should not be pinning maia, it's not something that makes sense

the differences in how the animal attacks and behaves would mean that in the case of an allo trying to pin a maia, it'd have to literally somehow push it all the way over, get on top of it and then pin it to the ground

[full pewter]

Yea but normal bites don’t have punishment

[limber hull]

neither does pounce anymore :P

[rare fractal]

Neither does pin

[limber hull]

they LITERALLY removed the punishments

[rare fractal]

It’s actually one of the highest value attacks in the game exactly because of that

[full pewter]

On that I can agree, that’s why I brought up rethinking how pinning could work

[full pewter]

And I think they should bring them back, and by punishment I meant missing itself

[limber hull]

rather than rethink how to do pinning, just avoid the concept of maia being pinned by allo altogether

[rare fractal]

Or we can just nerf the skill floor of the game to rock bottom

[full pewter]

I still don’t see an allo hanging on the side of a Maia like with a para

Maia is too short for that

[limber hull]

i can see that

[rare fractal]

Maia is about as tall as allo is

[limber hull]

i dont see how its unreasonable for maia to be held onto

[full pewter]

Just a tad shorter

[limber hull]

they're like the same height at the hip what

one's just angled upwards and the other is quadrupedal

[full pewter]

Yea but allo won’t be off the ground

There would have to be a whole new animation

[rare fractal]

Ok

There would have to be more anima to one made for maia pin

[limber hull]

in the situation where allo can pin maia, i LITERALLY do not see a reason to ever play maia because it will be obliterated by allo and serve as nothing more than food

[rare fractal]

I think we’re just forgetting about one very important thing

[full pewter]

Like assuming it could and it does drain a lot of allos stam, in a 1v1 situation, an allo pinning a Maia would just deplete its stam leaving it open for the Maia to obliterate it

[rare fractal]

Why do we want maia to get effectively one tapped by an animal it’s own size

[full pewter]

Just my thinking

[limber hull]

with what damage?

[full pewter]

It’s back kick?

[limber hull]

maia is pretty much confirmed to be lacking in the damage depart,ent

just trot away

[rare fractal]

Also….again…..why

[limber hull]

if you are standing there and getting kicked repeatedly, that's on you

[rare fractal]

I still don’t get why anyone wants this to happen

[limber hull]

exactly

[full pewter]

On which aspect this time? Back kick or side ram?

[limber hull]

allo pinning carno and below? Sure

Maia though? Why?

[full pewter]

Something else?

[rare fractal]

It’s like arguing about how to make a version of rex with a 10000dmg primary bite attack work

[limber hull]

it probably WILL have that let's be real though

[rare fractal]

It’d be a tragedy if shant took more than 2 hits to kill you’re right

[limber hull]

and even then, rex is also probably getting its own grapple bite pin thing

[rare fractal]

“Apexes are supposed to be challenging”

[full pewter]

In the stream they even said it won’t even have a normal bite anymore, which I thought was silly

[limber hull]

which apparently can grab paras, which are probably one of the largeest non-apexes in the game

[limber hull]

what

[full pewter]

Fr it’s nuts

[rare fractal]

It’s got a wider range than that

Pinning other apexes as well

Watch the dondi stream if you think I’m memeing