general-feedback-discussion

[limber hull]

ruin tons of gameplay i find fun

i see that as negative

[tame tartan]

my suggestion was to have a TOGGLEABLE map. you could simply toggle it off if you don't want to use it

[robust dome]

As a human having a map must be a feature tho

[limber hull]

and now im actively putting myself at a disadvantage because im someone who doesnt like them

PoT has a map because it's some weird MMO thing

[tame tartan]

then that is your choice

[limber hull]

Or

Hear me out, the devs can stick to their pre-existing plans and not add maps for dinos

[robust dome]

Having a map is just soop boring in a lot of videogames

[tame tartan]

the devs can prance around the prairie and moo until the sun comes down but that isn't going to change my opinion on the game being a more enjoyable experience for me if it included a map

[limber hull]

and i will state that the game would be far less enjoyable for me with the inclusion of a map

so we find ourselves at a standstill

[tame tartan]

how would it be less enjoyable for yourself if you can simply toggle it off?

you don't want to be spoon-fed navigational directions, fine. turn it off, some people like to know where they're going

[limber hull]

i dont enjoy the universal sacrifice of immersion and exploration for most players, nor do i like the idea of players never getting lost because it's literally stupid to even manage to get lost

@pure quiver my guy, ptera can't catch anything with its feet, this isn't Jurassic Park

these feet aren't catching anything

[tame tartan]

How is adding a toggleable map any different than pressing TAB and seeing your dinosaurs sex, weight, exact hunger, exact thirst and growth progress? I am pretty sure that dinosaurs in real life were not able to close their eyes and see the exact percentage in which their stomach is empty. Does this feature also ruin the immersion for you? If it does, you can simply choose not to press TAB. Just like with a toggleable map, you can choose not to use it.

[pure quiver]

Yeah, I guess not everyone would use a hammer for buolding, lol

[limber hull]

because those features impact my ability to survive. i dont need to know where i am to survive

[pure quiver]

And the feet catching was just an idea.

[limber hull]

its a slippery slope

feet catching gives way to the "pick up juvis and drop them" idea

[pure quiver]

True, again, hammer analogy

I mean, it kinda sucks. If it was less than 10% of players that abused the tools of the game, I'd say give them more fun tools

[robust dome]

Which is fun

But since ptera is the fastest playable....

[pure quiver]

Generally the rule of thumb with everything is 80% / 20%. Not just a design rule, I find it tends to reflect people's behaviour.

So I'd hazard a guess that 20% of the Isle players would abuse the mechanics to bully the other 80% lol

Some would say more, I'd say less. But as a general rule of thumb, 20%

[drifting rose]

i understand you completely but you wont ever get any of the devs no matter how many people think its should come to the game none of the devs would want it added thats just how the devs are from what ive seen so you will sadly just have to wait till mods come in. but since i feel bad for u because i used to be in your place when it comes to learning this map the best way to learn is to play dinosaurs like ptera to get a birds eye view of the map and see land marks from that view, dryo to find land marks through the large forest of the map and the groud in gerneral but i mainly used it to find locations in forest like ranger station and other building, and then use deino to find where all the water ways lead to and even deino spots that are often used but if u dont care where deinos are in the water ptera works just as well(u also dont have to grow the deino just find where adults hang and after findinf that u can kill off ur deino). but other than that u have to wait for modding to come to the game is what it is

[limber hull]

@mild quest venom is not applied with bites

[icy lion]

I don't think a slowmode skip exists. Even if we temporarily lowered the cooldown yours would remain the same

[scarlet ocean]

This isn’t from a post, just a overall question, why are people so against 1 shot pinning or just killing attacks? Almost every Dino Ingame atm has either the power or an ability to perform a 1 shot on a weaker target.
I remember hearing how most absolutely would hate if mid tiers or apexes had a pin down and insta kill move, and I doesn’t make sense to me cause 80-90% of playables rn have that and no one has a problem with them 💀
(Ofc not literally no one, but not enough ppl to even talk about it actively)

[gentle flint]

I’ve seen quite a few people talk about it actively.. usually it’s with the “wah too op” complaints

[scarlet ocean]

Guessing deino lunge??

[gentle flint]

Stego’s tail swing actually, though yeah sometimes deino lunge as well

[scarlet ocean]

I more so meant, not only deino lunge “1 shot” move, only Dino’s I can think of that don’t have capabilities of 1 shotting another is like dryo, hypsi and something tiny, and they still can do it if the target is weak enough 💀

**deino and stego

[gentle flint]

In the past it’s also been about pounce for Raptor in a canni situation (since if you were pinned you were killed) but no one complains now
And carno gets a lot of flack for it’s charge as well

[scarlet ocean]

Yup, remember those days too

[gentle flint]

It might not be directly as visible but people always have something to complain about

I think a lot of it comes down to the amount of time invested in a game for it to be ripped away with the press and/or hold of a button

[scarlet ocean]

I just overall don’t get it. Everything will always have a capability of 1 shotting/Aka pinning something to death if it’s weak enough, cause a pin to death is identical to being 1 shot bitten to death.

[scarlet ocean]

Yeah, it is that, but it’s currently like that too, so idk 💀

[gentle flint]

Well that’s what I’m saying, it’s already technically in the game and people already complain about it now, y’know?

[scarlet ocean]

It seems to apply more when you’ve spent EXTRA long on said growth, no one really cares if the 40 min dryo grow gets 1 shotted, but I see that as wrong, no matter the time grown, you should still be at a danger of practically getting nuked by something x2 or x3 your size and weight

[scarlet ocean]

Mhm

I get that a pin attack is unappealing and just a “hold this button and win” but it’s literally the same as for example a carno charging a Utah and then finishing it off with 1 bite.

That counts as a 1 shot as much as if the carno could pin the Utah

[gentle flint]

People don’t understand that if something is multiple times their size they shouldn’t be fighting it unless they’re okay with dying, a lot of people in the feedback areas have made it clear that they don’t care and they only want THEIR MAIN to be successful and no one else..

[rare fractal]

The defining difference being how much more noticeable and difficult to land an unbugged charge is compared to a pin

[scarlet ocean]

I’d think it would be even harder to land a pin or a knocking down move than just a 1 shot bite, it’s not like the dinosaur trying to pin you would teleport on you 🥲

[rare fractal]

I mean…that is sorta how it works

Pin is also a functional oneshot anyway

And again….Carno is both much easier to see, much easier to shake, and much easier to dodge

[scarlet ocean]

For some reason I was just timed out for 1 min, whot.
But anyway, isn’t that the same as a pin would? It would take significant wind up time, and you can just, run or walk away from it and disengage the pin attempt.
Idk, I just see it as the same as a bite overpowering you and 1 shotting you, just with an extra cool animation 💀

Since if you can even pin something, you should be able to also 1 shot it with a bite/ability, otherwise it would be unbalanced

I just think that being straight up grabbed or knocked down should be a death sentence, if not, then an almost death sentence. Imo getting properly knocked over/down should be the scariest and worst thing to happen in a fight, cause u can’t move and ur just there like “oh my god, am I dead”, ofc for the exception of offensive knowndowns, not defensive ones.
That’s also why I kinda don’t like how teno can full on stun carno, and carno can full on stun teno.
(Not sure how balanced this would be for deino though, that’s a whole different case of “pin”)

[sinful furnace]

man, whos not liking my shunosaurus idea

im just curious and would like to know of your opinion

[limber hull]

They’re already adding several playable sauropods, including magy, which isn’t that big compared to the rest

[rare fractal]

Playable sauropods aren't a niche that needs to be filled, big small or medium sized

[limber hull]

We have magy, camara, bronto, brachi, apatosaurus(I think) and I think I forgot one lol

[sinful furnace]

oh i didnt know, I just thought it was the camara, and the puerta

thank you for sharing

[limber hull]

The pue is gone, actually, it’s the one Legacy animal not getting into EVRIMA

[limber hull]

@green gorge did you press Z? Because the trot hasn't been changed

[green gorge]

Well now i just feel stupid.. thanks tho

[limber hull]

all good mate, happens a bit because of airbreaking

[green gorge]

And i havent played so long i forgot it was a thing loool

[glass ether]

@fallen bay that would be awsome!

[fallen bay]

Ikr it just looks like a dream compared to the bare rivers we have rn

[barren zephyr]

Indeed the rivers feel boring, empty and dead, not to mention the fish, flying in the air especially in the swamp, but yes atm the rivers feel like they didnt get any attention

Also more small fish swimming around with different colours, would be pretty as well

okavango delta under water (Botswana)

[burnt bone]

The main issue I have with 1-shot moves like Omni pin and deino lunge is that it turns what could be an interesting dynamic and chase into “I pressed right click, so I win”. Like Omni pin basically 1-shotting anything it’s size and smaller means it just insa kills so much of the small roster with the only counterplay of “just don’t get hit”. It could have an interesting dynamic and fights with something like mono, but instead it’s just “Omni presses right click and wins”. Of course there will be fights where 1 Dino can 1-shot the other, but those are generally where there is a massive size difference and are easily avoided by the small by just walking in the other direction. Like stego v carno, as long as carno doesn’t run head first into stego, it’s fine. But something like Omni being able to run faster than dryo, and still 1-shot it with pounce is just awful.

[limber hull]

i mean, i'm fine with omni being able to run faster than dryo and still one shot it if dryo got literally anything else in return

but it doesnt

nocturnal dryo please thanks

[fallen bay]

I really wish there was an option like "hold E to struggle" to break free from deino and Omni

Waste some of theirs and ur Stam but get free in return and have a chance to survive

[scarlet ocean]

I sort of get it.. yeah, but also kinda don’t cause if the complain is that Omni pin technically 1 shots dryos and other really small animals, I feel like that’s good.. Omni is quite big compared to them 🥲 but I overall get it better now, for why people think it’s bad, that was my original question after all

[cyan flame]

It's more so the lack of counter otherwise. Omni pin is fine, if locational determines the effects (we kind of have it now, but could use some more development), and same with deino grab, if you know, water clarity, some kind of bubbles or "warning" or the "lunge cancel" quick movement for eating and drinking, so there'd be more than just "don't be x close" to work with.

It's not neccesarily one shots themselves that are inherently bad (given sufficient size and power difference of course) but rather how much else there is to the interaction to work with for both sides

[limber hull]

@sonic rover man just dropped in the discord and posted the most well-written and reasonable "anti-KOS" mechanic I've seen lol

I do have to disagree with albinism tho, because having your cool skin ruined by being a pale white is never fun, although scars wouldn't be too bad

[sonic rover]

thanks 🙂

[limber hull]

I'd argue you get one or two free random cannibal kills on your dino before these effects kick in, as buffers for self-defence, misclicks or so on. Then you gradually start to progress more to look like a cannibal as time goes on

Because mistakes can be made, and having your crafted skin be blemished by a single mistake is lame

If someone is killing more than 3 of their own species, they probably aren't doing it for self defence anymore

[sonic rover]

At the same time though, I think that a mechanic of this sort adds story to your character. Definitely one or two kills should not ruin a crafted skin. The other problem is, I think that 3 same species kills is pretty high, even as far as accidents go. Sure, you play stego, and impale your kid by accident. Horrible mistake. But, your stego now has visible proof of its story. Making the life more memorable, and giving a sort of extra life. I don't think one or two relatively small indicators can really be counted as ruining the skin.
Secondly, I would also argue that in terms of the skin coloration messing up the skin you made, people who play this way knowingly should understand that. So really, if implemented in this way, a KOS or cannibal player would plan on having that coloration.

[cyan mountain]

What if they started foaming in the mouth

[limber hull]

a lot harder to do that tbh

like, that requires a constant particle effect generator at the mouth that generates said foam

[cyan mountain]

True

[limber hull]

not to mention making it look realistic

[cyan mountain]

What if u could smell them, that like after they killed enough of their own kind you could smell the blood of the fallen soldiers on them or smth

[limber hull]

then that would enter punishment territory

the point of that post was not to outright punish people for it, but to label them as a cannibal

making them visible to everyone who presses Q makes either much easier prey or much worse hunters

[cyan mountain]

True, true. So just sticking with physical not harmful indicators

[limber hull]

yea

technically, you could classify skin changes as possible debuffs, if they made you stand out more, but that's a different conversation entirely, as you could start with a bright skin and still have a bright skin

[cyan mountain]

Tbh I'm looking at this from more of a standpoint of what happens to dinos who shouldn't cannibalize like Omni

What if they started twitching

[urban flax]

@silk vortex Dinosaurs aren't cold-blooded
Only deinosuchus is

[pliant merlin]

Yeah they're just big birds

[runic steppe]

I like that idea for deino and deino alone. Have it affect speed or something

[tall hearth]

I would think an 8 ton gator wouldn't need to sunbathe in what seems to be a hot tropical environment. Plus affecting speed? Being forced to Afk by the game to be at my best doesnt sound fun at all

Angry group of players on land with a hungry spino in the water means I just die if I lose speed

Players logging in at night and needing to wait till morning to remove the debuff is just a bad idea too

That's just an entire point of day where deino is incredibly vulnerable for no reason

[runic steppe]

I think it being 8 tons increases it’s need to sunbathe lol. I rather it affect speed than damage. Was just throwing an idea out there. Maybe just a buff to speed not a debuff so u can be nows default speed or a tiny bit faster

Another idea could be it makes ur skin brighter or something

[tall hearth]

Why would an 8 ton animal that can retain body heat incredibly well due to its size need to sunbathe to warm up in what appears to be an already hot tropical environment

[pliant merlin]

Crocs don't usually need sun and shade to regulate their temperatures right? It just helps them if temps are at extremes, but wearetalking about a tropical environment with assumingly warm water.

[tall hearth]

At most id like sunbathing to be for slowing nutrient drain

[pliant merlin]

If for the purpose of balance, I don't think such elaborate features should be added yet. Takes effort away from other things, and it makes no sense to perfectly fine tune balance with only a roster of 9 playables. Many problems people have now could very well be fixed just with the addition of a new species.

[tall hearth]

Next update we getting 3, so that problem is slowly getting solved

[runic steppe]

Deino being 8 tons means it expels more energy and when u use energy, u expel heat so as a big croc is swimming through a big body of water, That will always be colder than land, it will use the heat and the temp will fall. Big crocs here in ga are sunbathing all the time because even though it’s 100 degrees out the water is cold. I’ve never got in a big body of water and felt it be warm to the touch. In fact even in smaller bodies of water only the first few feet are warm and everything else is cool to the touch. I agree that Dino’s should come first and this is all realism add ins for the future

And Srry for taking so long I’m doing 20 different things and having a convo with someone while doin them 😂

The nutrient drain thing is a decent idea. But realistically it makes no sense lol

[pliant merlin]

You, a human of 37 degrees celcius body temp never getting in a big body of water and feeling warm is indeed a perfect argument.

[runic steppe]

So how do u think it’s gonna feel to animal who can’t regulate temp and is dependent on the temps outside of the water. Their ideal temps for digestion is higher than the average human body temps

[silk vortex]

the validity of cold-blooded animals needing to sunbathe is not worth discussing, as its obvious. I agree that if deinosuchus is the only cold-blooded reptile in the roster then its probably not worth development time compared to relatively higher-yield projects

[runic steppe]

I’m honestly happy with the basking animation it already has

[tall hearth]

I would love if we had this basking animation from the compy concept art as well. Maybe eventually though.

[runic steppe]

It was In acros too iirc so it’s def something the devs have their mind on

[tall hearth]

Yep, acro as well. Just peacefully resting, getting their teeth cleaned. Vibing.

[burnt bone]

That is a big part of it, yeah. If the nuisance in the fight is the conditions for the win button, then sure. However, making the fight just based on the win button will make the fight extremely polarizing and basically impossible to balance. Hence why I hate Omni pin. Omni is already faster than our current smalls, who are likely some of the fastest ones, and it has a solid bite that can kill most of them quickly. Having pin as well just makes it able to run up to anything small and 1-shot it without counterplay, that is where I have an issue. Minmi for example is 300 kg and likely much slower than Omni. So it’s in the 1-shot range and it’s only counterplay of omnis is just “don’t get ambushed”. If you say “oh just give it bleed res so it can survive anyway”, then what about the other smalls and juvies with similar issues to minmi?

[burnt bone]

Here’s the issue:
Lets compare it to another 1-shot move, stego v carno. It’s just over a 3:1 ratio, stego is much slower than carno, can’t use its tail while running, the tail barely reaches ahead, the swing has a delay at the start and end, it’s very big and loud, and it only kills with headshots. That’s a lot of conditions to actually kill a carno, and all the carno has to do is walk the other direction.
Now look at Omni v dryo: it’s almost a 4:1 ratio, Omni is faster than dryo, has barely less stam, it’s small and can easily hide, pounce has very little to no startup, and it can pounce the dryo while chasing. It has so many things going for it that stego does not. Dryo has to run for its life and constantly juke out a predator both stronger and faster than it, but can get 1-shot all the same.

[cyan flame]

I don't disagree that pin and similar is, well, not ideal. But I do think mitigating circumstances and conditions would do a lot. You could apply that to minmi too for example. You have to pounce from the front to turn it over and thus get to the underbelly. Any pin from behind or even sides won't kill it. Same as how if you pin omni from the front, you take retaliatory damage. At least that would make some form of counterplay possible.

Juvies in general needs their own biomes and their own niches. And while there's probably a few smalls that can't be given all that much counterplay, dryo for example, given actual allowance of their dodge, wouldn't need it. Especially not if you could apply something like dodge taking priority over pin. So if a dryo reacts in time, no pin for the omni, dryo slips away.

[burnt bone]

If they do something like that, then that would be great. I just hate win buttons that have no counterplay but are the sole way one playable beats another (deino my despised)

[cyan flame]

In general, some form of "cancel" countermove, for abilities like pin and lunge would do wonders, if you react in time, you dodge and get away, if not, you die. Gives you a chance to react and counterplay, which together with things like turning a certain way or otherwise try to work with positioning would add more to the encounters.

At the very least there's potential alternatives that can keep the "if you get caught you die" abilities, but add more difficulty to catching the target instead.

[cyan flame]

Well, we have omni retaliatory damage now, so it does seem to be doable. And we have pounce "counter" with trike face (and hopefully others), so the mechanics are there, just need to apply them more and with greater efficiency depending on the targets and so on.

[barren zephyr]

Yeah and you can also grow with no diets

Doesnt mean i want to though

[burnt bone]

Wait Omni has retaliatory damage now? Neat, didn’t see that in the patch notes. That’s a good sign, hopefully with beipi and troo pin will be noticed as unfun and actually get some changes.

[cyan flame]

Last I tested it seemed to have yes. Want to go on scope (if you got admin?) and test it out real quick?

[burnt bone]

I can’t atm, away from my pc. Later I can tho if you’re still on

[cyan flame]

Pin beipi from front, get two massive claws in throat as a result :p

[cyan flame]

Sure, just let me know when.

[faint folio]

Well deino is a reptile and is cold blooded, but an interesting thing happens when you scale objects. For most objects, as you increase the dimensions (length, height, width), the volume of the object increases much faster than the surface area does. Volume determines the total thermal energy storage (as temperature is nothing other than vibrating molecules), but surface area determines heat transfer. So as you start looking at the metabolism of megafauna, particularly those in the multiton weight category, you get a curious phenomenon where it actually takes longer for a set temperature difference for a cold blooded animal's core temperature to drop. This is called gigantothermy, and it's theorized to have been quite important for non-avian dinosaurs that have some evidence of being cold blooded. It seems probable that deinosuchus may have benefitted from this as well

[runic steppe]

I was just using my knowledge on bigger pythons and such. I’ve never heard of this theory and will have to look more into it

[faint folio]

Yeah, it's an interesting side effect of how thermodynamics works

[runic steppe]

Would that cause the time of basking to theoretically increase. Longer basking less frequently

[faint folio]

I'm not sure. Out of the 7 species of sea turtles, only 1 (the green sea turtle) has been seen basking on land (as opposed to nesting, etc). The largest, the leatherback sea turtle, according to a study abstract, can weigh >900 kg and maintains an internal temperature of 25.5C in seawater at 7.5C, so... It may be that just energy used by swimming and gigantothermy are enough for deinosuchus. Sadly the study itself is paywalled

[runic steppe]

What was the link to the study I might be able to access it with my college email 👀

[faint folio]

https://www.nature.com/articles/344858a0.pdf

Idk if this journal is well reputed or not, but the study itself is supposedly about metabolism of leatherback turtles

Nevermind, I looked it up and Nature Journal is apparently very reputable

[runic steppe]

I look into it when I get homes

[rancid raptor]

@willow aurora Pteras can absolutely not be allowed to fish for elite fish, unless they make ptera a diver

Even then, it'd look very weird for the ptera to carry that elite fish - because it OBVIOUSLY weighs way more than the ptera

With that said, I agree that the only logical solution is to remove it from ptera's diet - but it's not needed at all

Yes, ptera is dependant on deinos in order to get the elite fish - you're right. BUT the ptera is literally a scavenger

The way pteras get their diets, currently, is scavenging bodies for nutrients

That's ptera's playstyle right now

Which makes it make sense that pteras need to scavenge elite fish from deinos

[glass ether]

@willow aurora
Im sure you’ll catch a flying fish…

[rancid raptor]

@sonic rover 1. we already have a way to signalize people as cannibals. Debuffs.
People should not get a skin indicator that shows them as a cannibal. Horrific idea, with all due respect

Indicators that you kill your own species.. really ?
This is a survival game. Why in the world would we make it easier for people to know who to trust?
In a survival game, you're meant to be unsure about who to trust. You're meant to pick who you trust carefully

These types of mechanics will ruin that part of survival.

[rare fractal]

Imagine you are playing teno, you get attacked by another teno, and you win that fight

[rancid raptor]

lol this is another thing

[rare fractal]

Sucks to be a cannibal for the rest of your gameplay

[rancid raptor]

anyways another thing i noticed

@sonic rover this is not true at all

It actually removes a crucial horror element in the game.. "i don't know who to trust"

[rare fractal]

Oh yeah it has the opposite effect…it makes behavior of players more predictable

[rancid raptor]

If players expose themselves visually when they kill their own species, that'll make it even easier for people to know who to trust
not good for a survival game

We already have debuffs

[sonic rover]

what debuffs? I was not aware of this

[rancid raptor]

if you're an omni and you cannibalize your own species, you get debuffs such as:
biting randomly

i don't remember the rest but they're temporary visual debuffs

also you get vomit sickness

[rare fractal]

Infertility is another one

[rancid raptor]

and rapid dehydration

rapid dehydration is the most annoying one for me

[rancid raptor]

how long are you infertile?

[rare fractal]

Not sure

[sonic rover]

noone mentioned this to me when I asked if there was anything reflecting cannibalism. Also honestly infertility is probably pointless because those players would just kill their own children anyways

The larger problem, in my opinion, is KOS herbies. Not "hey, i dont want to share this food" herbies, but Herbies who just kill anything they see for no real reason

[rare fractal]

Why is that a problem

[rancid raptor]

Cannibals often want to increase in numbers, so if they do nest - it's often to increase their numbers

(spoken from a true cannibal. me)

[rancid raptor]

Many herbies in nature are actually like this though. Hyper-aggressive territorial herbies

I don't doubt herbies were like that in dinosaur times, some of them

[rare fractal]

There’s almost always a potential justification through survival for killing basically anybody

[rancid raptor]

it also teaches people the game

To be more careful and such

It's a great survival element

[rare fractal]

Well yeah that too

You shouldn’t be safe from combat instigation because the threat eats grass

[rancid raptor]

I agree with this suggestion very very much, and I think it'll be made possible with UE5

[sonic rover]

yes, do not interact with anyone is such a great element for a multiplayer game

[rancid raptor]

That's not at all what it is

[rare fractal]

That’s not at all how it functions currently tho

[rancid raptor]

You misworded it very much there

[rancid raptor]

It makes you careful of who you trust. That's a LARGE survival element

[rare fractal]

How have groups been forming for the past 2 years in Evrima with no herbi canni debuffs

[rancid raptor]

In a game like RUST, no one trusts anyone. But they still interact with each other

[rancid raptor]

yeah
As of right now, people are doing just fine

in terms of grouping etc

[rare fractal]

Like exercise caution, if things go well you group up…then you’ve made a new friend

If they don’t you fight them or leave

[sonic rover]

or you group with someone and then they kill you after walking around with you chatting for 10 minutes

[rancid raptor]

i do that alot to people

you're not wrong, it happens

[rare fractal]

Bad luck, the game shouldn’t mechanically prevent this

[rancid raptor]

but if you're right about it being a very big problem, which it isn't, @sonic rover can you explain why people aren't having problems with grouping up right now?

Groups are constantly formed in this game, majority are formed needless of discord

Why do you think that is? Even while players can't blindly trust each other

[rare fractal]

It’s not even particularly unrealistic disregarding the fact that that doesn’t actually matter

[rancid raptor]

If people don't like realistic survival, they're welcome to join community servers that have rules set up for it

[rare fractal]

I wouldn’t even go into realism on this topic

[rancid raptor]

Games such as animalia have rules inbedded into their officials, where people are limited from killing each other in many scenarios. the game's dead

[rare fractal]

It supports both sides depending on the animals you look at

[gentle flint]

If the devs wanted it they wouldn’t have added debuffs to begin with is the thing.. but clearly they’re at least to some extent opposed, so it was an interesting suggestion. Not that I can say that for certain.

[rancid raptor]

What do you mean?

[rare fractal]

They’re adding firearms…I feel like this should tell you all you need to know about their philosophy behind “pointless” KOS

[rancid raptor]

The reason they added debuffs is purely about preventing people from going astray from their diets. NOT about telling other people "this guy is a cannibal"
that is why the debuffs are temporary

If the "random bite debuff" was permanent, then you would have been right about the devs' intentions

[gentle flint]

The game is intentionally designed to avoid cannibalism in a relatively non-invasive away already, the suggestion was just providing more options on top of that. And you can definitely tell if someone’s a canni if they’re snapping at nothing lmao

I don’t personally agree with the color change, but I think it was cool in theory

[rancid raptor]

Yes you can, but the reason why it exists is only to make people not cannibalize. Not to warn others about the person being a cannibal
That is why it is temporary

[rancid raptor]

It would ruin large parts of the survival element in the game, as described earlier

[gentle flint]

And that would be your choice

Or sometimes not, I saw the argument for the fight you didn’t start, I understand that. But as Hydro mentioned, the change would be very slow and gradient as to not completely disrupt someone’s gameplay in these scenarios.

[rare fractal]

Why is it at all necessary

[rancid raptor]

It's not

[rare fractal]

You should never be able to tell a players intentions aside from their actions

[rancid raptor]

It's simply not necessary and I'm confused as to why people are arguing for it

[gentle flint]

Half of the suggestions aren’t necessary, let’s be real here. Doesn’t stop it from being a suggestion.

[rancid raptor]

If it was necessary, we would have seen it

[rare fractal]

Whether it is one was never up for contention

[rancid raptor]

This suggestion would negatively affect the game lol

[sonic rover]

Look, I do think all of these are valid points. However, in my subjective opinion, and the opinion of quite a few others, this is not fun. Is it a huge problem? No. Is it something that I think can be improved upon? Yes. The goal here, is to try and dampen a major source of frustration for many people, while trying to add some cool nuance to it.
You have both stated you enjoy playing as cannibals, great. But that very clearly puts you on one side of the argument. I, as a friendly player, do not enjoy this. Clearly putting me on the other side. My goal is trying to attempt to provide benefit to both sides. I think, that it would feel a lot less frustrating to die to a same species killer if there were warning signs. I made the choice, I had the warning. I am also trying to add more depth to cannibalism gameplay by giving you cool, behavior excusive markings or something like that. Your own special badge of honor. And would you not agree adding more challenge to the PVP aspect could be fun? Instead of just walking up and saying "HI :)" Then biting, you might have to convince them. Hunt them. It would add to the experience.
As stated, I suggest there be a gradient, so you will not immediately be blaze orange or something stupid. If you, as a teno, accidentally kill once, you get the first, small indicator. People who have killed many others, are more noticeable. This means, that whenever you start a new dino, there is the same current element of "I blend in, I look like someone they can trust." And as you continue, increasing your difficulty, I thought, that for clearly pvp oriented players such as yourselves, this might sound appealing. But if you have some suggestions to make this better, I would love to hear your ideas for possible improvements as opposed to completely discarding the concept.

[rancid raptor]

It does exclusively put us on one side of the argument at all.
It's objectively undeniable that this suggestion would hurt a large part of the survival element, as we agreed upon earlier

[sonic rover]

I personally disagree that it hurts it, I think that it simply changes it. You still have to survive the other player. you just treat them as more dangerous

[rancid raptor]

If we allow players to immediately (by visual details) tell whether or not someone is a cannibal, it would remove a large part of our need to be cautious of who we trust.

You can't disagree with that, it's a basis survival element

[sonic rover]

But, not every person without these markings will not be a cannibal.

[rancid raptor]

That does not oppose the fact

[sonic rover]

It will not be removed, just reduced

[rancid raptor]

The devs have had several chances to add this, instead they made temporary debuffs that did nothing other than encourage the cannibal himself to refrain from the cannibal diet
(which is a great decision)

We've already established that the caution in who you should trust is a survival element

What if you defend yourself from 2 cannibal omnis and kill them both - what then?

Won't you be painted as a cannibal?

[sonic rover]

It provides a layer of interest to your life. It is harder to convince others you are not so. Adding an extra layer of challenge.

[rancid raptor]

yeah very logical, that

[sonic rover]

I have adressed essentially that point 3 times now

[rare fractal]

Well just to be clear, I almost strictly play teno and Omni when I’m on officials, I don’t ever cannibalize unless I’m forced to, tenos are as rare as unicorns and omnis need packs. I just know the myriad of reasons why herbis would kill members of their own kind, and don’t want that behavior mechanically denigrated, the discouragement should be from the benefits of keeping that player around…if the cons outweigh the pros you should be able to fight them off or kill them without being marked as a server wide criminal….

I also dislike handholding players through who they should be trusting in a PVP survival game simulating a bizarre ecosystem of genetically engineered prehistoric animals in the modern day…
But setting and game purpose aside…

The gradient doesn’t adjust any part of the mechanic, even if you simply have one mark, you can still negotiate into a group then kill then all, then slowly we return to the state where we started, where no matter what gradient stage you’re in…people won’t ever trust you…then people realize that players can cannibalize for a first time….then the entire mechanic becomes redundant because new adult cannibals can disregard the mechanic entirely to make their first kill….then we’re back at the current state of the game, where nobody inherently trusts anyone else, and you actually need to utilize discernment and critical thinking to decide your group mates…which personally is how I think it should be

[rancid raptor]

this sort of mechanical denigration will simply not happen.
The devs are too knowledgable to establish it in a survivalgame such as EVRIMA, which they have clearly - multiple times, implied will be a hardcore survival game

[gentle flint]

Yeah fun fact, EU3 Hyspi doesn’t listen regardless of what you say and will say that you’re refusing to answer no matter what or how many times you repeat yourself, so it’s best not to even argue with them tbh because they can never be wrong. It’s a reoccurring theme if you check their past posts here.

[sonic rover]

hey, no need to be rude

[rancid raptor]

No reason to be condescending. I read everything I see, I do listen to everyone - and I did listen to you, you just spread rumors about me such as now

We could rather stay formal

[gentle flint]

I’m legitimately not trying to be rude it’s just a circle I run with you a lot.

[rancid raptor]

It's not at all. You just paint it as that because I disagree with you, such as now

This game should not have its survival elements weakened, periodt

[gentle flint]

It’s still survival? If anything being painted as a canni should HELP you survive since everyone is avoiding you, right?

[rare fractal]

Well for one, if you happen across a player with a canni mark, unless the body they killed is literally right next to them the story will ALWAYS be the same, both from cannis or non cannis:
“He attacked me and I had to defend myself”
“I accidentally killed a juvi while I was fighting a Carno”

The “convincing” isn’t a challenge at all, it’s any player presenting conjecture to get into a group, for whatever purpose they may have for that group…
Adding dino court also sounds lame to me

[rancid raptor]

Why do we need extra help surviving than we already have?

That is ruining a survival lement

[sonic rover]

Okay, so, considering the post has more likes than dislikes, it seems the people who have seen it liked the idea. For just a thought experiment, your benefit and mine, what could you do to this idea to implement it while improving it?

[rare fractal]

It might actually prompt players to KOS you even more…

[rancid raptor]

there's that

[gentle flint]

Which is certainly a risk you take!

You’d have to play it very careful, for sure

[rancid raptor]

which doesn't need to be in the game

[sonic rover]

I did consider this yeah.

[rancid raptor]

I want to respond to this

[rare fractal]

7 years in this community has taught me not to care about votes, I’m glad you feel supported but the amount of posts I see on a daily basis that get mass upvoted despite being terrible is alarmingly high

[rancid raptor]

The way we can deal with cannibalism is add temporary debuffs, such as vomiting - rapid dehydration, randomly biting and infertile as an additional punishment.

Instead of adding meaningless permanent visual debuffs that have an invalid intention

[rare fractal]

Well I just think the mechanic is fundamentally contradictory to one of the games core ideas, that being making smart choices…
Plus the mechanic sorta renders itself redundant after a certain period of time

[rancid raptor]

We literally already have debuffs that put you in grave disadvantage, what more is there to ask for?

[sonic rover]

Okay. So would these be added to KOS herbies?

[rancid raptor]

no, that's illogical

[rare fractal]

No, they don’t need to be regulated

Also this concept only punishes KOS Cannibal herbis

Herbis would still KOS, rightfully so

[rancid raptor]

herbies are often like that

[rare fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/beasts-of-bermuda-kaperoo-the-isle-path-of-titans-gif-23526654

[sonic rover]

Again as I stated in the original post, yes, they are agressive and will kill each other. But it is far more common to have something like a 3 call occur and say "hey, you better leave" As an attempt to get the other side to withdraw and prevent friendly casualties. If the other side does not leave, then they fight

[brave surge]

careful the realism server roleplayers are convinced that trikes horns were just for tickling

[rancid raptor]

one word.

Hippos

Hippos won't warn no one. no one.

[gentle flint]

Not on this current thing but I was typing for a little because I’m slow-

It’s an interesting mechanic? It doesn’t need to be shot down ruthlessly because it would “never happen”. The game still needs a LOT of developing, saying that it will never come on the basis of “it hasn’t happened yet so it won’t” isn’t a real reason to shoot it down.

I understand the trust thing being part of survival but it’s actually relatively realistic, is it not? Not the color thing, but another part of the suggestion was scars. If you see a battle worn lion, that means they win a lot of fights so you probably don’t want to tussle with him because he’s good. Why is it so ridiculous that it would be added to the game then?

[rare fractal]

Why, your goal is to kill them not run them off

[rancid raptor]

We're not "shooting it down ruthlessly", we're responding to it
It's not a mechanic that would affect the game nicely. It would do the opposite, affect the game negatively

Any mechanic that affects the game negatively should AT LEAST have some realism to it? but it doesn't

[sonic rover]

Because usually these occur over territory or other resources, not simple bloodthirst.

[rare fractal]

Territory and food are most efficiently safeguarded by their being less competition

You reduce competition by reducing numbers

[rancid raptor]

We're not arguing against battlescars generally btw, we're arguing against indicators against specifically cannibalism

[rare fractal]

If you chase something off, it will come back larger, or with a group

And that’s very bad for you

[rancid raptor]

Yeah "usually", but hippos aren't so usual

their aggression is often so meaningless

[rare fractal]

Moose, elephants….Buffalo

[rancid raptor]

there's a video of a hippo attacking an alligator that tries killing a deer or something

it saves the deer

then it kills the deer

[rare fractal]

Loads of animals unwarningly murder animals at random because they think they look funny

[rancid raptor]

FOR NO REASON, it kills the deer. or antilope or whatever

[brave surge]

oh is that the topic, someone wants cannibals to be tagged because they trust too easily? lol

[rare fractal]

Male elephants during their mating season literally make it their life’s mission to end all pulses in a 13 mile radius

[rancid raptor]

the suggestion is that cannibals should have permanent visual marks on them that clearly show they're cannibals

we already have that, but it's temporary

[brave surge]

that causes player targeting if perma, not fun

[rancid raptor]

i like Hydro's way of adding counter arguments to their own text and disproving them though, that was smart imo

[rare fractal]

It also just handholds through discernment

[gentle flint]

I mean, I believe there are signs in real life that things are cannibals. I know it’s mostly in humans, I’m not massively informed on the topic, but it IS a thing to some extent, no?

[sonic rover]

Is this genuine or rude, I can't tell.

[rare fractal]

They’re all behavioral if they exist at all

[rancid raptor]

Can you mention examples of permanent visual signs in real life?

[rare fractal]

Genuine, and I agree

[rancid raptor]

No it's genuine

[sonic rover]

Okay, thank you. I appreciate that.

[rancid raptor]

I do it sometimes too

[rare fractal]

It shows you’re confident in the discourse to come

Which is nice, it means you actually WANT to talk about it

[sonic rover]

Indeed. Too few people are willing to even consider possible benefits to a side they have already decided they dont like. I try to be open and consider everything, though of course I do have my biases.

[brave surge]

i think people would have less of an issue with cannibals if they stopped viewing the isle as a social dinosaur game. no one owes you a truce just because you're the same species

[gentle flint]

I only know ones in humans but I know it can cause degenerative brain diseases and self harm. I’m not positive if any of these reflect over in animals though.

[rancid raptor]

I can imagine your suggestion being a mod that some community servers will use, 100% in the future

[rare fractal]

Legacy did a number on what people come to expect from players

[brave surge]

fr

[rare fractal]

The other dino games have done the same ironically, an expectation has been generated that you should expect more comfort than conflict

By the genre itself at this point

[spring holly]

@sonic rover im pretty sure the devs said they dont care about herbi KOS and cannibalism penalty (in a realism kind of way). i'm not 100% sure how it was said, but im pretty sure i've seen it float around in dev comments. it seems to be a player expectation, not a dev one

[rancid raptor]

Would battle scars, generally, be bad though? Not from cannibalism specifically, but from generally just fighting

[rare fractal]

No not at all

[rancid raptor]

That would be a cool trophy

[gentle flint]

Well they’re getting added actively I think

[rare fractal]

Battle scars are entirely neutral

They don’t have an action intrinsically tied to their generation aside from….took damage

[rancid raptor]

real life scarface

[rare fractal]

Yeah as long as they remain cosmetic that should be good

[burnt bone]

Guys I just realized, won’t try intended scar system have similar consequences to the suggestion? Like if you see a pachy with a bunch of blunt scars you can tell it fought other pachies

[sonic rover]

This is sort of problematic in a way, people play games in different ways to have fun. I think many people enjoy that part of the gameplay. Which is part of why I suggest this. Because as you have stated a few times, you believe ultimately it wouldn't change much. But I believe that the simple fact is that this mechanic even existing would, in a large way, reduce frustration from this large portion of the playerbase that just like being dinosaurs and playing with other dinosaurs in a survival setting. Meaning the game would have more players, which I think, would be good for everyone.

[rare fractal]

No, it could have gotten that hitting a tree

[gentle flint]

Lmao that’d be a sight for sure, getting a scar from bonking for your food? XD

[rare fractal]

Or missing a ram and hitting a rock

[sonic rover]

Yeah, scars do actually make me sad to suggest for this because I would love to see a mechanic where you simply gain a scar after a fight where you lose a certain percentage of health. I think that would be cool. Then people who had a lot of good fights would have a bunch of cool scars

[rancid raptor]

One thing which is 100% true is that your suggestion would lead to a large butterfly effect in how survival and interaction works in this game.

I believe it would be a negative butterfly effect, but that's up for debate of course

[rancid raptor]

What if people do that alot, should they get damaged

[burnt bone]

I doubt you get scars from something that doesn’t hurt

[gentle flint]

I think it was in #phase-two-archive where they showed some scar work? Not positive though, it’s definitely something they’re thinking about

[rare fractal]

Well alternatively, Pachy sparring is often done for fun, so it’s innocuous regardless

[rare fractal]

Also it could simply be made so that it does

[rare fractal]

No, not something like Pachy, definitely something like Carno

[gentle flint]

They’d probably have to work a lot more on terrain collision

[rare fractal]

Not really, the logic is simple, ram X rock model produces Y scar over Z collisions

[burnt bone]

Again, doesn’t hurt… unless you mess up. However, this doesn’t just apply to pachies. Deinos with deino bites or stegos with thagomizer holes.

[sonic rover]

simple until you actually start coding and making the decals for the models and then it becomes a 2 year process for development

[gentle flint]

I know it’s mostly a spiro issue but I can just.. walk through a lot of rocks, is more what I mean. Or glance off the side of it

[rare fractal]

Well then our only hurdle is the artwork….

[burnt bone]

Idk why you should get scars from something like that, kinda ruins the point of them if your pachy can look completely scared because you ate a lot of coconuts

[proud coral]

Specific locational scars are very unlikely I believe. But regional ones, perhaps.

[sonic rover]

you underestimate code my friend lol

[rancid raptor]

specific locational scars is very hard work

[proud coral]

Like instead of showing a scar in the EXACT location of where you got hit, it's moreso separated into groups like "left leg, right leg, torso, etc."

[sonic rover]

okay im playing with a friend right now and shes starting to get annoyed so im gonna drop this for now, thanks for the discussion everyone, even if I disagree, I thank you for your discourse

[rare fractal]

I know how stuff like this is produced, the coding logic is VERY simplistic, like it’s about as mechanically complex as “hold E to press button”

[burnt bone]

We have locational damage, just make X damage to a body part applies Y scar based on what hit it. Though it’s probably going to be more complex than that

[rare fractal]

See ya! 👍

[rancid raptor]

it'd be way more complex

the complex part is making it not look funky

[rare fractal]

Stego thagomizer hole going through a deinos face 5 times

Hehe

That looks hilarious how I imagine it

[gentle flint]

Yeah it’d probably be an issue of.. I got clawed in the face so how well does that mesh with my model? It’d be a lot of work like that

[rancid raptor]

would a deino's bite break a stego irl?

[rare fractal]

Break?

[rancid raptor]

like, break its bones
if it clamped its jaws around a part of its body

would a deino's bite break anky's armor?

[rare fractal]

Depends on the body part, for something like it’s back leg, probably not without a sufficient amount of thrashing

[rancid raptor]

but it's like 100k N

i can't fathom

[rare fractal]

Force application is far more important than the force itself

[burnt bone]

Surface area my good friend

[rare fractal]

Mhm^

[rancid raptor]

Surface area?

[rare fractal]

It’s why rex had a sturdy yet narrowish jaw

Because the smaller the force of pressure application, the more power you have

You can apply the same force to an object with a brick as you can with a bullet and get wildly differing results

[icy lion]

Wasn't the 100k N from scaling up a modern croc/gator and not a legit study on deinosuchus itself?

[rancid raptor]

Was deino's biteforce likely smaller or larger?

[rare fractal]

Well….yes

[icy lion]

That's #paleotalk territory tho tbh, just wanted to ask

[icy lion]

I've heard that the most credible estimates place it at just under rex's (~20k N) but there's a huge range of estimates that I've heard. Personally I wouldn't know where to look, either

[rancid raptor]

Ah damn so it's overexaggarated

[icy lion]

But yea, living crocodilians can break bones, so it's not hard to imagine deino being able to. Just a matter of which bone you're chomping

Not that I think our deino should get fractures, that's a whole other can of worms

[rare fractal]

Yeah that would be….oof

[oblique creek]

@sonic rover very good suggestion! I like it, very well thought out and not negatively impactful to players of either side. I believe that's a good way to handle situations instead of massively debuffing people or causing some sort of problem that distrups gameplay. Well done mate

[rancid raptor]

quick question

why should we have Tupandactylus and tapejara

to clarify; do we need one when we already have the other?

[rancid raptor]

yo, this right here is so cool

i liked the cerato part

[willow aurora]

I’d agree with this if it were the case, however, every nutrient is something a ptera can kill on its own aside from the elite fish. If there were more options to scavenge off of kills to fill my nutrients, I’d be fine with that, but it currently isn’t the case. The chances of stumbling across elite fish on the shore is slim as it is, and finding one without a deino waiting is even slimmer.

[rancid raptor]

The only thing a ptera can't kill in its diet is the elite fish

[willow aurora]

Yes

[rancid raptor]

Can we ask ourselves; do we really think the devs weren't aware of the ptera being unable to kill it prior to releasing it?

No, they were well aware

Their intention with the elite fish in its diet was to make it so that the ptera had to scavenge for it

[willow aurora]

If I’m not mistaken (I very well could be), there was a time where pteras could catch elite fish.

[rancid raptor]

they were never able to catch elite fish, and if they were - it was a mistake, cause' elite fish weigh more than ptera

and that mistake, if it happened, has been corrrected long ago

[willow aurora]

Regardless, I think it’s silly to have a dietary food that’s inaccessible through most means.

[rancid raptor]

Pteras are able to get their full diet by scavenging, and currently they're the best at doing exactly that

• They cover large amounts of distance in short amounts of time
• They have an eagle's perspective, easy for them to spot corpses
• They can literally scent whilst flying

The elite fish diet was supposed to encourage pteras to scavenge

[willow aurora]

We cannot know for certain if that was the intention. If they’re meant to be scavengers, there should be far more options in their diet (it would make it a lot more fun for all parties involved, I believe). But that is currently not the case, and I’m inclined to think that it was not the reason.

[rancid raptor]

How was it not the reason when they made added elite fish in its diet whilst it was unable to catch it?? That forces the ptera to scavenge for that diet

The only way to get elite fish, for ptera, is to scavenge

Of course the intention was that

[willow aurora]

I personally think it may have been an oversight

If not, I’ll gladly accept that I’m wrong, but all diets across the board are accessible to the given dinosaur. I see no reason why ptera would be the exception, especially since they’re intended to be piscivores.

[rancid raptor]

You're right

Tbh though, gameplay-wise, scavenging for nutrients found in corpses can be an adrenaline rush

You're vulnerable on the ground

[willow aurora]

Oh, definitely. I hope that eventually, ptera has a broad range of accessible dietary foods, that way they’re more encouraged to scavenge off of corpses.

[rancid raptor]

Do you think ptera should be a scavenger?

[willow aurora]

Or perhaps another dinosaur can fill that niche

I think so, it could be exciting.

[rare fractal]

@steady rampart We can change the dismount animation, but the reason it takes so long is because you’re NEVER supposed to let your stamina run out

That’s the punishment for poor stamina management

[long spear]

whats the ETA

[hallow umbra]

for update 6.5?

[limber hull]

there isnt one

[drifting rose]

ETAs dont exist in the isle

i cant remember the last time ive seen an ETA

[gentle flint]

I think the only ETAs exist for devblogs now.. being at the end of every month

[compact flare]

<@&933486433342222376>

[blissful latch]

@barren zephyr I prefer the way we write to actually affect things rather than the way we tap enter. Like posting "I'M STARVING" and then tapping enter for a lil noise would be the opposite of immersive so I prefer mine where it would feel like your writing choice actually matters communicatively

(No hate, your idea is neat but doesn't achieve what I was thinking)

[barren zephyr]

Well, the reason i don't like that idea is because it'd be hard to do.
Like what if you spelt one word in all caps but the rest lowercase? What if you didn't speak English. Idk how they'd add it

[pliant merlin]

If animal crossing can do it...

[barren zephyr]

@harsh breach maybe further down the line but its really unnecessary until we have the game mostly complete

[blissful latch]

Doesn't seem hard to me, most languages have ways to communicate volume

[barren zephyr]

But then everyone would just be talking in capslock

I hate capslock

[blissful latch]

lol

[harsh breach]

True true

Just a neat feature

[willow aurora]

Technically, a deino can go anywhere, @analog owl. It just depends on how determined the player is.

I think that as long as the distance between each water source is survivable (hydration-wise) for a deino, that should be fine, but nothing should be entirely inaccessible.

[barren zephyr]

Just saw someone suggest about an in game map, something brought up by me and others. Why are people so against it? It would make navigating so much easier.

[compact flare]

I think it’s due to the fact that it would seem way too hold handish considering they want a hardcore survival experience, adding a map can negate that I suppose

All for it being added as an option for unofficials though

[barren zephyr]

Yes I agree with that. Having it on unofficials at the very least would be a good compromise.

[willow aurora]

Honestly, if they add more landmarks, I don’t think a map would be needed

[barren zephyr]

Very true. Hopefully Gateway will have lots of landmarks

[sudden hinge]

@civic hull humans have always been planned they are coming

[tall hearth]

Humans have also been planned since the absolute very beginning lol

[civic hull]

Yes, except i doubt the devs have the manpower or the competence to actually implement them properly

within the next 5 years at least

[north quiver]

I personally think they’ll implement them properly. Wouldn’t doubt it if they’ve been thinking about how to do it for over 7 years

[urban bear]

Humans are probably the most hyped feature of the game

they aren't going to be OP, ammo and weapons will be limited, and good luck using your gun on the dinosaur in the bushes you had no clue was there

[urban bear]

I mean they have pretty much completed the dinosaur gameplay loop in under 3 years

all thats left is elders and the dinosaurs will have their gameplay for the most part done aside from Qol changes

[north quiver]

not to mention humans have first person view and dinosaurs are third person view. can’t see a single thing as a human if the tall grass and plants are in your screen

[urban bear]

humans have such a narrow fov they and can barley see above most foliage

you aren't going to be picking out dinosaurs and dropping them like flies

movement is going to be slow and realistic its not going to be call of duty lol

[north quiver]

I’m really hyped for dinosaur and human interaction that strays from the “hehe gun shoot dino. deathmatch time :D” interactions

[urban bear]

Humans also won't have as much depth as the dinosaurs, they are going to loot, repair bases and try to survive with the gear they have collected

[urban bear]

Same, its going to be a really tense and fun experience full of terrifying moments. People watch one video on youtube and think its going to be like primal carnage

[north quiver]

fr. I’d love something that strays from primal carnage deathmatches and ark’s “gotta tame em all”

[urban bear]

people also act like aiming in a realistic shooter is easy

if you have ever played squad or arma the recoil is random and the sight is swaying a lot because thats how it is irl and thats what the devs are aiming for

[north quiver]

exciting

[urban bear]

its not like a laser beam you just point and pull

Its gonna be awesome when they are finally in

they already look promising in their bare bones state

[north quiver]

definitely. love the idea that humans can’t see a single thing at night and have to use a flashlight

[urban bear]

I wonder if they will get some form of night vision

not anything crazy like quad lenses but maybe a single lense

[north quiver]

night vision googles could be cool

[urban bear]

need to be done properly though

[north quiver]

yea

[urban bear]

or it could ruin the night for dinosaurs that dont have good night vision

sorry for the flight sim screen shot but maybe something like this could work

but make the edges darker

[north quiver]

seems like a cool idea

[urban bear]

I think its an interesting one for sure

just need to make them very hard to come by

and maybe you could also need some type of batteries

[north quiver]

I like the idea of it needing batteries so that way it’s not used constantly

[urban bear]

it can also limit your use time on them so you can't have them on demand

also could be pretty terrifying if you run out of batteries and then get mauled

[sudden hinge]

They are going into primary development after update 7 so we’ll see but it’s coming so sorry 👍

[north quiver]

very excited to see what will come with humans though. they’ve probably thought about all of this and already have plans for it or something similar lol they’ve had years of being able to think about this and plan

[limber hull]

give me something more akin to pokemon snap, but far more brutal. take pictures, field recordings and samples of dinosaurs, at risk of being devoured lol. guns are self defence, not the main core part of their objective

[urban bear]

I'm sure they have a plan but just like dinosaurs it could change several times

[limber hull]

on top of the already known objective to repair structures

[north quiver]

love it

[limber hull]

i REALLY want humans to be able to steal eggs and return them to certain points. The eggs would be used to study the animal and growth cycle, and record any changes between the offspring and the original asset to see if they are adapting, and record said adaptations

imagine the sheer terror of driving away from two angry adult carnos after you stole an egg

[urban bear]

then they find your half repaired base and eat you for stealing their egg

[north quiver]

mfs gonna be hiding and stalking the base from the bushes waiting for you to come out even for a millisecond

[barren zephyr]

Wowwy that sounds so cool!!! Love the idea

[north quiver]

imagine requesting to hatch as an egg and you go afk only to come back and see you’ve been snatched up and taken to someone’s base to be studied

[limber hull]

nah, snatching live players lame

[civic hull]

dont you just love getting timed out for critiscizing the devs

[icy lion]

The bot blocks swears

[civic hull]

thats stupid af lol

[tall hearth]

Not really. It encourages civil discourse instead of having an insult match

[civic hull]

point still stands tho the devs do that a lot. like x Zaguer

[limber hull]

untrue

[civic hull]

there is insulting someone and then there is using the word casually to describe bad stuff

[civic hull]

uh-huh

[limber hull]

were you actually there when x zag got banned?

did you see what he ACTUALLY said?

[civic hull]

no but I seen the screenshots of what went down

[limber hull]

because I was, he was an ass

[tall hearth]

And both happens when swears are allowed. Just use different more unique words

[limber hull]

completely unjustified in the way he acted

[civic hull]

he gave some critiscism

[limber hull]

thats not all of what he did

[north quiver]

I don’t think a bot can easily tell the difference

[limber hull]

he did more than just "give criticism"

[civic hull]

lol. Why does islecord like to lick the boots of the devs XD

[tall hearth]

Who's licking boots lol

[limber hull]

sorry for not licking the boots of some random youtubers instead

[civic hull]

its not just him lol

and its all the lies too

basically having a fake roadmap

[limber hull]

zag was an asswipe that threw out completely unwarranted insults at Dondi who had done absolutely nothing to warrant that behaviour, then made a video entirely removing said insults from his recollection

[civic hull]

for instance

[civic hull]

and what were these insults

I would like to know the full story that you say zag did not expose

[limber hull]

mate it's been like a year since that happened so I don't know the direct quotes, but it was very much a ton of calling Dondi an incompetent idiot straight to his face. That's not criticism, that's just personally attacking an individual, especially since Dondi did nothing to warrant that

[zinc meadow]

Oh boy

[civic hull]

I mean hes right tho

[limber hull]

hes not

[civic hull]

the isle's development has been waaaayyy better with Dondi less involved

[limber hull]

i've spoken personally with dondi in a private setting, these claims are just foolish

[civic hull]

of course he would say that

anyway I think we are offtopic lol

[limber hull]

i dont base my opinions on someone's competence based on them saying "nuh uh no I'm not"

he has an actual understanding of what he's doing and why he's doing it

someone saying they're competent is not the same as proving they are

[civic hull]

I base my understanding of dondi's competence by looking at the sort of drama he has stirred up and the sheer amount of it too.

anyway

I also think Magy shouldn't be added

like having an ability that kicks in after you are dead just sucks

and its design is just bad

and unviable

[limber hull]

magy isn't going to have it's only ability be the bad taste

[civic hull]

yea

but it, a tubby sauropod

should by no means

be faster than an allosaurus

[civic hull]

plus its also just a pygmy sauropod that is only small because it evolved around no large predators

[limber hull]

cerato has a very similar issue of very likely not being fast enough to outrun an allo, and certainly not strong enough to fight one, yet no one really cares to talk about that

[civic hull]

so this pretty much automatically makes it unviable due to it just not being evolved to take on anything bigger than a troodontid

[civic hull]

I mean maneuverability is a thing

stronger biteforce

bacteria bite

[limber hull]

cera isn't having a stronger bite force

we know for a fact it isn't

[civic hull]

Well it should lol thats dumb. It had one irl

[limber hull]

its lighter than a carno, slower than most animals in its size tier and possesses a low bite damage

its not in much of a position to face off against allo

[limber hull]

also no it didnt

[civic hull]

what do you mean

I mean I stand corrected if ur right

but still

[limber hull]

cera was a lightweight, fragile animal far outsized by allosaurus. The hatchet bite theory was proven incorrect a long time ago

[civic hull]

yea I know lol Im kind of an allo expert

it literally says allosaurus enjoyer in my bio

[limber hull]

lmao

anyway, point remains, cera is specifically referenced to, at least in The Isle, have a weak bite damage, but a fast attack rate to compensate

[civic hull]

I mean I always thought of cerato as smaller and slower than allo but more compact and maneuverable

[civic hull]

makes sense

[limber hull]

you could easily say the same for magy in that case tho

[civic hull]

finally a decent balance decision

[civic hull]

well no

because theropod and sauropod physiology are completely different

theropods are generally built for speed when they weight less than 4 tons

because under 4 tons they can still sprint with both feet off the ground

[limber hull]

except we know cera is actively quite slow for a therapod of its size

(in the isle)

[civic hull]

I mean the way I would do cera

and allo

[rare fractal]

What a bizarre potential matchup

Like we already basically know that allo is going to onetap Cerato as lame as that is

Which is sorta in line considering how much of a Titan allo is by comparison

[limber hull]

the thing is, i really LIKE the way cera is planned to be done in The Isle. It's a unique take on the carnivores that hasn't been seen before in these kinds of games, an animal that literally does not care to hunt and instead prefers to steal and scavenge

[rare fractal]

Not the oneshot just the dynamic

[limber hull]

i have become weary and tired of generic hunter therapod

[civic hull]

is have cera as a smaller, more compact theropod with better maneuverability due to being more squat with shorter legs, and therefore would be better adapted for hunting in forested areas. It would be slower, but not too slow, def faster than the isle. Allosaurus would be bigger and faster, essentially a glass cannon that can run carno speeds with ambush (thats a confirmed mechanic for it) but would not be maneverable, and would be less of a brute

I def am all for cera standing up to allo

[limber hull]

hell, deino, as hated as it is, at least brings me a medium of joy seeing a non generic hunter therapod in the carnivore select screen

[civic hull]

I love cera, and its depiction in the isle is good

[limber hull]

ehh, i just dont really like the idea of sacrificing cool bully scavenger defensive cera for forest hunter

forest hunter is just... whatever, whereas the bully scavenger defensive niche is genuinely a new and fresh idea to bring to the carnivore roster

every carnivore is added with an expectation to hunt, but cera subverts that, and it's really cool

[rare fractal]

Plus the only thing that would possibly make it a forest hunter is that it’s short

Which also sorta renders its prey pool down to….a short list

[limber hull]

if anything, cera is more accustomed to swamp life

[rare fractal]

Easily

It’s basically scavenger teno with no stun

[limber hull]

good swimspeed, stout body size

[limber hull]

oh yea, that too, nice to see a "brawler" not rely on stun mechanics to fulfil that niche

[civic hull]

I’m not denying that I love the isles take on cera

But I mean what I just said was cera’s irl niche

[rare fractal]

Mhm, again I don’t MIND that teno can stun, but it’s specifically how that stun is applied, I doubt Cerato would be able to be designed reasonably with stuns as apart of its kit without making it REALLY slow, and even then it’s combat would suffer

[tall hearth]

With the wider rivers coming with gateway, itll be great about everywhere there isnt a bridge nearby.

[limber hull]

i can imagine a few places they might find themselves near

[rare fractal]

The deeper rivers don’t really service them that much tbf, there’s a fine line between having a more substantial escape route and being vulnerable to a deino oneshot for far too long to risk

[tall hearth]

I dont see cera doing all that well in the plains, but in the swamps and near river systems and forests it should be able to thrive

[rare fractal]

Like swamps having tons of smaller separations between islands, which serves animals with good swim speeds far more

[limber hull]

i do hope cera and carno have a more dynamic matchup than the implications suggest

[rare fractal]

“Bodies”

[barren zephyr]

What's a cera?

[limber hull]

are you like legit asking?

[barren zephyr]

Yes

[limber hull]

ceratosaurus

upcoming carnivore in U6.5

(the next update)

[barren zephyr]

Oh a carno is it a water Dino or land

[limber hull]

land

[barren zephyr]

Cera sorry typo

[limber hull]

it's a scavenger bully type animal, in a similar size range to teno and carno, able to eat rotten bodies without consequence, smell corpses from great distances and make other animals sick with a sceptic bite, as well as being quite defensively powerful with plentiful resistances

look around in #isle-phase-three for stuff about it

[barren zephyr]

Wow

[limber hull]

it's a bad hunter but a powerful brawler, so it contests

[barren zephyr]

It's a big boy

[limber hull]

big in terms of our current roster, in reality it's much closer to the smaller end of the spectrum

[barren zephyr]

Oh it looked bigger with its cool horn thing on its head

[twilit birch]

idk how to get dinos that arent normally in the survival mode

[urban bear]

what happened in here lmao

went from human discussion to zag vs dondi argument to cerato talk

[tall hearth]

Admins have to spawn you in as them. Usually you have to pay irl money or use their discord to accumulate "points" to "buy" them

Its scummy asf

[twilit birch]

oh ok

makes sense

[barren zephyr]

I get the discord money but irl yeah no that's bad

[tall hearth]

Give me 30 dollars and I will spawn you in as a spino, remember tho if you die you gotta pay another 30 to get it back

[zinc meadow]

@cyan mountain iirc the current time goes by at 1 minute per 3 irl seconds, just pointing that out since it's a bit of a counter of your own suggestion.

[cyan mountain]

no way, ur lying

it cant be

[zinc meadow]

Pretty sure

[icy lion]

45 minute day, 30 minute night

[cyan mountain]

has my life been a lie

[cyan mountain]

WHAT

[icy lion]

At the very least, that's what's intended

[cyan mountain]

theres no way day lasts 45 minutes

[limber hull]

That’s how long it’d meant to last

[cyan mountain]

but when I look at the isle's in game time

it goes up per second

[sand lantern]

Anyone who read my post and downvoted it. I was hoping someone would explain why but so far no one has. Some please explain why

Do people have good reason or do they just not like it

[proud coral]

Dino slots have large abuse potential sadly.

Player A kills Player B
Player B has his T.Rex saved on a slot
Player B switches to his Rex and goes to where he died
Player A is killed by Player B's magical Rex

People already have done it with alt-accounts

Slots would be that but much worse :C

[sand lantern]

Understandable

What if it was an unofficial option

[limber hull]

Slots would work if they were on like a 6 hour or longer cool-down. Then I’d agree with their presence. Otherwise hell no

[sand lantern]

So like if I pick one I cant use the other(s) for a set time?

that sounds good

[limber hull]

Yep

If you die you can spawn a new dino on that slot or wait

[sand lantern]

maybe the timer is longer depending on how far the animal is through the growth cycle. So if i die I can wait like 5 mins and im on my juvi troodon

[dreamy merlin]

@outer yacht the mental map is your brain just learn the map. its that simple

[icy flare]

Not everyone plays this game daily for hours . If u just play from time to time ist almost impossible to remember anything

[dreamy merlin]

nuh uh

[icy flare]

My friends play this game like 3 times a year last few years since recode always ends in frustration of they don’t know where they r how to find others and dying from cliffs . Not everyone who plays this game plays it on a daily base and know the map. So I think it’s not a to bad idea to have a map . Like the person already said why there coordinations in first place if u have to use them on a third party map

If u think it breaks the immersion then the food and water icon breaks it also . Cause no living animal has a icon to symbolize how much food they have . For gameplay it’s necessary to have it enjoyable for the player so would a map also do .

[dreamy merlin]

i agree

with the breaking immersion part

i would much prefer a unique hud that when you see it you think “oh hey this is like the isle”

also why would the devs add stuff specifically for the people who barely play the game?

[icy flare]

What u mean barely ? For people who have jobs and life . Not everyone is living from staate and has time to grow every day a Dino ^^ playing a game 3 times a year for a few days /weeks is a lot and every dev should support new and old player

But I guess the isle is life

For some

Maybe the people who get frustrated from not knowing where they r would play even more if they had a map

[dreamy merlin]

i dont see why you dont just look up “the isle evrima map” if its so frustrating

[icy flare]

I don’t see why u don’t just ad this map on keybind. Instead of letting people tab out of there game and google a map

[dreamy merlin]

because the map wasnt made by the devs

[icy flare]

So u play the isle without hud then and never taping tab button ? Cause all these information breaks immersion

[icy flare]

Why give us coordinate then ?

[dreamy merlin]

probably to help the admins find you if you got stuck

[icy flare]

Ahahhhhahahahagahha

Never heard of some official admin help someone who is stuck

Was a nice Chat sgt. Dryo but as long as u don’t play without hud and tab information I think u have no right about saying a map breaks immersion when u literally watch at all Ure stats

Cya

[dreamy merlin]

i play the game as the devs intended me to play it

[icy flare]

It’s a open beta and it’s not a finished game

So a map can still be added

[dreamy merlin]

i literally never said it breaks immersion

[icy flare]

The isle is life ^

U guys chat her about dinosaur that r just rumor and suggests dinosaurs and mechanics but if someone wants a map that’s a nogo xD

[icy flare]

Would like to see a official statement that says a map will never be in the finished product .

Otherwise let people suggested what they want

[dreamy merlin]

im pretty sure the devs said they’re not giving dinos a map but id have zero clue how to find it

[icy flare]

Let me know when u got it 👍🏼

They also said update 6.5 inly troodon in 2022 . Now we here Things can change keep that in mind

They also said it’s only official when it’s on roadmap they also said don’t take roadmap to serious 😂

[dreamy merlin]

im so confused

[icy flare]

It’s not like I want a map . I know the map but I’m good in remerbering way and location in general . But I can see why some people want a map

My auto correct

[dreamy merlin]

so let me get this straight you’re telling me to go look for evidence of the devs saying that the dinos arent getting a map but then you’re also saying that even if i did find it it doesn’t count because the devs have made mistakes in the past?

[icy flare]

To have something solid official would be ground for Ure argumentation . But there is still the thing that the isle is a open beta game that constantly changes . And I don’t see the point to say no to something like a map only cause YOU don’t need a map .

I don’t need dryo

Should I always say delete dryo

XD

[dreamy merlin]

what?

[icy flare]

It’s ok cpt dryo

[limber hull]

they aren't adding a map

they've said it before, they aren't adding one

[dreamy merlin]

see

[icy flare]

They said also update 6.5 only troodon

They also said a lot of other stuff

😂

[dreamy merlin]

they also said they’re not adding a map

[icy flare]

Doenst change t he fact that people can request it

[dreamy merlin]

i never said they couldn’t

[limber hull]

no they didn't

[icy flare]

That’s what roadmap said

[limber hull]

they said troodon was going to be added in U6.5, they never once said they wouldn't add more

[icy flare]

They said if it’s not roadmap it’s not official

[limber hull]

the roadmap only confirms what is 100% coming in an update

they said prior that the other animals could, and would, be added at any time

beipi and cera were ready to be added, so they were put into 6.5

[icy flare]

Mr pue Love to see u adding something every day to every conversation 😂😂 makes me giggle

[barren crater]

There's nothing really wrong with a map if made well

[icy flare]

^

[limber hull]

this is an easy distraction for me, so why not

[barren crater]

I don't see the issue. Unless you automatically start with a fully mapped out world

[limber hull]

i just dont like the concept of a map in The Isle, too PoT/MMO style for my tastes

[icy flare]

What’s POT/MMO style

What u mean by that

[limber hull]

Like Path of Titans or an MMO

[barren crater]

Eh, a lot of survival games have it.

[icy flare]

Never played

Explain me what u mean

[limber hull]

Not many survival games are animal survival

[icy flare]

Doesn’t perk System bring mmo Aspekt to the isle ?

[limber hull]

Not really no

If they were just raw stat buffs, then yes, but they aren't

[icy flare]

And a map is not a Aspekt of a mmo

Ist a Aspekt of almost every game

[limber hull]

personally, i would prefer the experience of getting lost over knowing the entire map and how to get out of any situation

[icy flare]

My friends try that exp and it’s not for everyone

U see my point that getting lost and just dying in nirvana also keeps people away from playing the game more often ?

[limber hull]

having every animal magnetically find their way through dense forests and dark nights to whatever hotspot they so damn desire very much ruins any sense of navigation and discovery. Find point A on your map, go to point A, find point B, go to point B

Just boring

Gateway does map design much better in a way that makes it much easier to gain your bearings without needing a map overlay

Spiro is just bad so it's very easy to get lost because everything looks exactly the same

[icy flare]

?

[limber hull]

I see that more as an issue with Spiro rather than a need for an ingame map

[icy flare]

I guess we have to see when new maps come

I will try to Remember this convo and let u guys know what the exp of my friends will be on new map .

[cyan mountain]

Someone fr said "post literally any information about 6.5" as if we already don't know as much as there is to know about the update, we already know what's coming, seen dino showcases, what else do u guys want 🧍 @little cove

[little cove]

I meant progress? Or more information about the creatures abilities? Or their Diet needs? Think just a tad more there

Since y'know how they just went all Silent not wanting to post any progress.

And not that 36 others agree and you're the only one who put a ❌ so do me a favor and not waste my time and give me 1 less ping over something stupid thank you Hawk

[cyan mountain]

They're in QA rn supposedly, but to address your other points. Do u not want any hint of surprise? Why would u want to know every single aspect of the update and not wait to figure some things out for yourself, knowing their diets isn't a necessity to know and for the most part we already either know or have a strong idea or indication of what their diet will consist of along with that their abilities have already been stated multiple times (for example we know Cera will have a bacterial bite, Beipi can lunge/ swim which is already an ability, and Troodon is venomous). You don't need these minute details when you can find out yourself in relatively a short amount of time if you just wait

[summer forge]

@barren zephyr I don't think ptera should have it given it doesn't look like it could carry a baby dino (other than maybe hypsi) but I'm all for for quetz

[barren zephyr]

adult ptera's would be able to pick up AI and player trodons ( when they will be added as playable species ), they should be able to pick up baby maybe even juvie hypsi's and baby dylo's, maybe even baby ( or hatchling ) raptors

also idk the size of Elite fish compared to adult ptera, but it would be cool if you could pick them up but be wayyy slower/lose more stamina while flying with them

[limber hull]

why would it be able to pick up an adult troodon and not hypsi

[barren zephyr]

trodons are wayy smaller than hypsi no?

[limber hull]

no

it's not a compy

also, just going to put it out there, ptera should absolutely not be able to do any of that

especially not the elite fish part

[urban flax]

Especially not with its feet

[barren zephyr]

why tho? okay maybe it really shouldn't be able to pick up a lot of the things i mentioned here and in the suggestion itself, but why not add it as a mechanic and be able to catch compy's, hatchling/baby or maybe even juvie ( depending on the species ) dinosaurs

[limber hull]

if you want to pick up a juvi hypsi you can literally just left click them

[lapis swallow]

no, I really dislike it being able to pick up stuff

[limber hull]

also are you suggesting it do stuff like pick things up with its feet and drops them from a distance, perchance?

[barren zephyr]

if you catch them, the whole point of this suggestion is to not need 100% of the time to fly low, risk crashing into the ground while trying to hit a small dinosaur, but instead to just swoop in and catch it

[barren zephyr]

thought about adding something about it to the original suggestion

[lapis swallow]

but you onehit all the dinosaurs that you could grab

[limber hull]

^

literally just peck them lmao

[barren zephyr]

how would you catch them tho? as i said you most likely will crash, miss the hit or lose your pray

[lapis swallow]

thats just poor flying

[limber hull]

Just left click dude

It's literally so easy

It really doesn't need a crutch to help it kill these tiny things

[burnt bone]

Here’s why being able to pick up things is not a good idea: counterplay.
How are you supposed to counter a ptera picking you up? The only skill expression is on the ptera’s side. If you play perfectly, you will still likely die because the ptera got a grab. Run to a tree or rock? I can swoop you from the side. Run into the forest? Plenty of pteras can fly just fine in a forest. Hide in a bush? They just have to do drive-bys until they hit you. So how is this interactive at all for the small?

[barren zephyr]

the mechanic can be implemented in a way that maybe its kinda like time limited? unlike with skimming where you can fly fast and slow, go lower or higher and do it basically forever

[limber hull]

why tho

literally no functional purpose to do any of this

it's not even supposed to be a hunter

[burnt bone]

Again, that is only skill expression on the ptera’s side. It’s all based on if the ptera can land 1 attack with no ability for the target to stop them.

[pliant merlin]

could make it so they can only get grabbed from the back, so all the target has to do is keep facing the ptera. but if the target hasn't seen you yet, you can get a surprise attack off and grab them and fly off.

[limber hull]

that just makes the matchup even weirder lol

[rare fractal]

Our hit boxes fundamentally can’t handle that

[misty sage]

EU4 Utahraptor stuck at −465 667,406, −523 373,656, −30 641,01 Name: Calculator <@&505047238674874368>

[robust dome]

this is the furthest thing from the right channel to ask that lmao

[faint folio]

I've seen a lot of in game map suggestions lately... My thoughts on the matter is that a static map would be totally fine, particularly if (for the dinosaurs) you get civ style "fog of war" over time if you don't visit regions-- the map would be blank in areas you haven't visited for some time. Also I don't think you should get to search coordinates as a dinosaur. But... A lot of people are down voting adding it as a feature because they enjoy having to learn the landmarks and navigating that way. However... You can still play this way if a map feature is implemented -- just don't open the map. But it would be a nice option for players that don't want to play that way

[north quiver]

no. if I had to suffer for a few days at most as a new player to learn the map, then others have to suffer too I don’t want this game to be too hand holdy

[limber hull]

@proud coral actually super interesting concept tbh

[proud coral]

Thank you! :3

[delicate monolith]

Good luck running or hiding if we ever get outlines like that

[limber hull]

they can simply modify the range of the outlines?

they dont need to see outlines infinitely away

[left nacelle]

We had outlines like that before tho? If anything it makes it easier to hide. Cause everything is outlined

[pale prairie]

didn't they cause health issues?

[gentle flint]

Yeah I think it was removed because of migraines and stuff

[left nacelle]

It was bad for some people's eyesight, but with it not being the entire screen, this is probably much better

[pale prairie]

maybe.
why not just have NV brightness decrease the further away it gets?

because really, the current NV ranges are more than good enough, they don't need to be extended in any way.

[left nacelle]

Less interesting

[gentle flint]

Think it also caused seizures from what I heard, not sure if it’s any easier if it’s not as intense

[pale prairie]

also less chance of health issues causing a complete rework of the system.

[left nacelle]

Well yeah, but like I said, if the outlines are only at the border of the current NV range, it likely won't cause health issues, since you aren't forced to look at it and it isn't right in your face

[delicate monolith]

From my understanding during the initial NV release it was very difficult to hide in bushes because of it. Either way it gave people headaches which is why i didn't even bother.

Beyond that having an outline of another dinosaur that's hiding or running from you just turns the game into easy mode at night. You aren't going to be able to balance it regardless of range because all the predator needs to do is slip back into it, and suddenly he knows exactly where you are regardless of what's in the way because this is a third person game.

[pale prairie]

i take it you never saw the initial release of NV? because this is not how it worked at all.
very often people would miss dinosaurs in the mess of lines that made up the foliage.

[left nacelle]

The outlines don't go through objects tho, and like I said, all objects are outlined, so it isn't really easy to see things. In my experience, night times was even harder to navigate with the outlines than it is with current NV

[pale prairie]

only place where it was an issue was in the plains and that was only an issue because most of the grass assets didn't work with the outline system.

so the dinosaurs were the only thing outlined.

[gentle flint]

I was there, it was easier in my opinion because there was always a straight lined curve of the back against the leaves of the bushes in the outline. But I guess that’s personal opinion.

[north quiver]

I personally found it far easy to find and notice dinosaurs too with the outline nv

[delicate monolith]

As i said i didn't bother with the initial NV release because of the health issues. But all of my friends played and they all agreed it was way too easy to find people trying to hide from them

[gentle flint]

The only reason it was harder for me was because I couldn’t look for more than 5 minutes without a massive headache lmao

[faint folio]

I don't really think a map that you can't see your own position on, which you can't write on, and which doesn't have coordinates, is particularly hand-holdy. Plus, just because I had to endure the suffering, doesn't mean I dont want the new player experience to be moderately better...

[north quiver]

No. Suffer

[gentle flint]

[pale prairie]

alternatively you can open google chrome and pinpoint your exact location

[north quiver]

exactly. people will next want a player marker to show their exact location on the map if a static map is added

[pale prairie]

no, i'm for an in-game map.

i don't see why it's an issue.

it's not as if it's a brand new game changing thing, people have been making third party maps with horrendous POI names for seven years.

[north quiver]

allow me to redirect you to this #general-feedback message

maps should only be for humans in my personal opinion if they’re going to be implemented at all

[pale prairie]

can't believe it took me (and all of us for that matter) so long to realize, but a crude version of the suggested static map already exists in-game, but you can only see it when spawning in.
so all that'd really be changing is you'd be giving the player the opportunity to view/study it at any time.

[north quiver]

never knew about that haha but an in-game map won’t even be needed as long it’s easy to tell where you’re going and where you are. new players can simply just hop on ptera and easily get familiarized with a well made map

[pale prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/why-not-both-why-not-take-both-gif-11478682

if you've already made one for the regional spawn system anyway, i really don't see why you wouldn't allow players to view it while actively playing too.

[north quiver]

because dinosaurs can’t read maps and don’t automatically know the layout of the land the second they exist

[pale prairie]

unfortunately players aren't dinosaurs and most players already do that via third parties.

[north quiver]

and I’m pretty sure they’re going for realistic stuff? at least that’s what I’ve always heard

[north quiver]

then no need to add it in if third parties do that already

[pale prairie]

considering how little work would be necessary, there's also no good reason why you wouldn't.

the map already exists for the regional spawn system.
you'd just have to move that over to the M key.

[north quiver]

no good reason why you should too

[pale prairie]

there is, NPE and accessibility.

[north quiver]

not enough of a reason in my personal opinion

as for why other people don’t like the idea of having a map in-game, I don’t know. just my take on it, and I’m sure the others that downvote map suggestions have their own take on it too

[proud coral]

To me, a map just defeats the point of uh....learning the map yourself. Just seems too hand-holdy to me <:/ Even for new players. They should actually put in the effort to learn the map traditionally instead of the game doing it for them. And yes, I know things like Vulnona exist, but I don't believe that justifies making something similar to it official and in-game. Third party stuff should stay third party.

Now, a map for humans, sure. As long as it's an actual physical paper map or something similar that doesn't update or anything. Actually use yer brain for it 😛

As for the issue of the playable map lacking PoIs and being difficult to learn....

[feral solstice]

I think this could easily be solved by having you reveal the map as you explore

[rancid raptor]

there is something y'all don't understand, which i can see from the fact that this is so downvoted

If there are many watersources that don't have deino risk, deinos will be neglected of their ability
aka what makes deino deino

Players will just go to the safe watersources, and have no reason to drink from dangerous deino infested waters

[rancid raptor]

The only way to combat this is to make it so that rivercrossing is needed in many occasions, but it will still damage the game

[limber hull]

something you dont understand is that if EVERY water source is deino friendly, that's extremely unengaging and limits aquatic diversity

[rancid raptor]

@barren zephyr Don't think the ptera's anatomy is supposed to do that, regardless it could be an option for some other mid-tier fliable in the future (if we get one)

[rancid raptor]

@limber hull Do you acknowledge that players would have no reason to drink from deino waters when they have many deino-free watersources?
Yes or no

[limber hull]

if you do what Spiro shallows did, and have the primary shallow water source also be near all the food and in the centre of the map, then yes, every player will drink from it

If you do it in a more engaging way with diverse water sources in different parts of the map, like how Gateway does it, then no, deino will still be a factor

[rancid raptor]

@lucid robin Why don't you use vulnona to travel back from another spawnpoint?

[rancid raptor]

@limber hull you avoided the question

[limber hull]

I didn't

[rancid raptor]

Do you deny it or accept it

[limber hull]

It's more complex than a yes or no answer

I'm not going to merit it with such a simple answer when it is a more complex question

[rancid raptor]

How many players do you think would drink from deino waters when they have access to safe waters

[limber hull]

Don't try and guide me into an answer that fits your narrative

[rancid raptor]

They're simple questions

[icy lion]

Depends on the area imo

[limber hull]

Several, considering Gateway has shallow waters, yet still had deep waters as a main element

[icy lion]

If there's a shallow water source but it's 1km away from any relevant diet plant then I wouldn't go there

[feral solstice]

Keep in mind, Deino safe areas doesn’t mean you aren’t safe from other players aside from deinos.

[limber hull]

That too

Spiro's shallows were far too black and white

[rancid raptor]

In our current map there's already water sources that are kilometers away from good locations
For example the beach

I don't see many players complaining, at all, about getting lunged by deino often
it's a skill issue

[rancid raptor]

We don't need even more safe water locations to neglect deinos from lunge

[feral solstice]

So while yes, no crocs is fine and dandy and all, but thats until you get a pack of Omni bumrushing you

[icy lion]

Spiro's waters are "a dryo can walk here" or "5 deinos can stack on each other" with very little in between

[feral solstice]

So it evens out

[rancid raptor]

Your main concern is crocs when you drink

[lucid robin]

because some spawns don't have a different spawn point close enough

[icy lion]

Yea, and because it's so distant from many diet foods and more interesting parts of the map, not everyone camps it

[lucid robin]

and the spawn timer is literally just a pointless inconvenience

[rancid raptor]

We don't need even more safe water locations, as it would neglect deino's lunge
It'll happen as players learn where to go for deino-free waters

[rancid raptor]

I think it's mainly to prevent revenge-killing, but it doesn't seem illogical to only have the timer when someone kills you

For some reason I don't get the timer on NW when I'm hypsi

[lucid robin]

it doesnt even always happen yeah

it doesnt work right, and when it does it's only annoying

[rancid raptor]

Do we know what the main purpose is, from the devs

[feral solstice]

And that’s how you die

[lucid robin]

i assume to prevent revenge-killing, as well as dying as one creature and coming back as another to eat your old body

[rancid raptor]

No, lol, your main concern when drinking from a deino water is always the crocs themselves

Dying from a croc near your water is way easier than dying from a couple of omnis
we're all aware that deino fairly oneshots you if you make a mistake on where you drink

[rancid raptor]

I do that alot with hypsi and ptera

I die as a hypsi 3 times, and spawn as ptera

not on purpose tho

[feral solstice]

Thanks for proving my point. You can go to a safe drinking spot and still be rushed by anything else other than an Deino .

Yikes major spelling mistake

[rancid raptor]

Yes, you can go to a drinking spot and rushed by alot else than a deino
But your largest concern is the deino. because it's most dangerous, so

If I'm a pachy, I'd be less worried about 3 omnis then I'd be worried about a deino in the water

[feral solstice]

And so that was my point about safe drinking spots

And why they aren’t really as bad as people make them out to be

[rancid raptor]

Which shouldn't be too common, because it'll lead to neglection of deino's abilities

[rancid raptor]

They are if they're too acessible

It's undeniable

If there are many safe waterspots, the first few months people will make mistakes here and there

But eventually, people will learn where to go in order to never get lunged by a deino
it's that simple

The devs won't make that mistake

[feral solstice]

Not really. There will be other hiding spots that you can take advantage of

The point is moot

[rancid raptor]

What are you talking about, with all due respect i don't understand

[feral solstice]

It shouldn’t even be hard to understand. Lmao

[rancid raptor]

It's undeniable that if there are many safe waterspots, players will learn how to never need a drink from deino-infested waters
Do you deny this? @feral solstice

Do you think players with 2-3 hours of growth will risk drinking from deino infested waters "just because", when they have the opportunity not to?

[feral solstice]

There’s no way to deny it. People will learn eventually, but will also learn how it can be equally as bad.

[north quiver]

what makes you assume there will be many safe water spots?

[rancid raptor]

I'm saying if there will be
Safe waterspots should be incredibly rare
like they are rn

[rancid raptor]

Equally as bad?

[feral solstice]

yes

[rancid raptor]

How is drinking from a safe waterspot equally as bad as drinking from deino waterspots?

Deino oneshots anything below 4 tons

[feral solstice]

You’re just as likely to get bum rushed by literally anything else coming to get you, as a Deino in the river.

[north quiver]

I’m fine with that, but the suggestion you screenshotted earlier said all drinking spots should be accessible to deino

[rancid raptor]

Okay, so, where did you get this from?

[feral solstice]

Might be a bit exaggerated, but they’re both similarly problematic

[feral solstice]

My experience, duh

Just like your points are your experience

[rancid raptor]

Alright well that must be a skill issue cause' I've never, in my 300 hours of EVRIMA, gotten killed by anything else than a deino while tryna drink
and i've rarely gotten lunged so there's that

[feral solstice]

Must be luck then, for you my friend

[rancid raptor]

Perhaps he misworded himself, because we know there are safe waterspots in our map atm

[rancid raptor]

300 hours of luck

[north quiver]

rookie numbers

[feral solstice]

1000 hours here

[rancid raptor]

yeah i prioritize thaiboxing so i don't spend much time on evrima

[feral solstice]

I highly doubt this but go off

Shallow water spots = POI’s
POI’s are attractive to players, so it makes it easy to camp around them to find other players

[rancid raptor]

I'm aware it's true
Anyways you're VERY wrong about land dinos being an EQUAL threat when drinking from deino infested waters

[feral solstice]

That’s fine with me. I’m just stating my experience

[limber hull]

migrations will force players to leave the safe shallows eventually regardless

[barren crater]

We just need bary to take those areas that Deino can't

[limber hull]

*sucho

[feral solstice]

Bary and Sucho making it scarier to drink in shallow spots

[barren crater]

Sucho as well. I do want lakes to be a bary thing mainly

[rancid raptor]

@feral solstice If a deino sees you and gets to you in time, you have 0 chance of survival

If a few omnis see you and gets to you in time, or a carno or whatever, you have more chance of survival

Do you disagree with this?

0 chance unless the deino's very bad of course

[barren crater]

Like juvi deinos can traverse to a lake distance wise, but adult deinos aren't able to. Which leaves Bary to be the main threat there

[feral solstice]

That’s hard to even measure when the skill differences are varied. But if you reread above, I did mention it was a bit of an exaggeration

[barren crater]

Or I'd hope that would be the case

[rancid raptor]

This sounds like a cool dynamic actually

[rancid raptor]

You agree or disagree? There's only one correct answer to this lol'

[north quiver]

false if the deino doesn’t have enough stam

[barren crater]

Spino in lakes 😄

[rancid raptor]

Do you agree you have basically 0% chance of survival @feral solstice when a deino gets to you in time while you drink?

[rancid raptor]

yeah right that's not true

[north quiver]

I disagree

[feral solstice]

I’m not going to bother answering as it derails from what I’ve said above

[rancid raptor]

it doesn't have to drown you, it can just bring you to the middle and bite you repeatidly, wasting almost no stam - and repeat

[rancid raptor]

yeah well the answer is i'm right about the scenario

[feral solstice]

That must make you proud

[rancid raptor]

If a deino gets to you in time while you drink water, you have 0% chance of survival compared to if some omnis get to you
Or a carno

[rancid raptor]

@feral solstice the only reason you deny this is because it's against your narrative

it's literally true, deino just needs to lunge you

[north quiver]

tenos have a chance to swim away quite quickly, and I’ve seen a lot escape quite easily. I’ve also seen carnos escape with barely any health left after some bites

[rancid raptor]

omnis need to do way more, several bites or several pounces

[limber hull]

i want shallows to be a sucho thing

[feral solstice]

Oh look, you’re talking to the imaginary me who somehow denied it.

What a plot twist

[rancid raptor]

yeah that's a LARGE skill issue from the deino's side, coming from an 80h or so deino player

[barren crater]

🤝

[rancid raptor]

You refused to respond to the question, implying that you denied it

[limber hull]

call this man a scarecrow maker because he great at making strawmen

[feral solstice]

That’s flawed logic

[north quiver]

then do you agree @rancid raptor that it’s indeed not a 0% chance of survival when a deino grabs a player?

[feral solstice]

Again, flawed logic

I mean, if you want to interpret it the way you said, that’s fine. Could care less as it’s flawed.

[rancid raptor]

it's not a 0% chance technically, but it's pretty much 0% chance compared to a few omnis or a carno
or almost anything from land

A deino grabs you, you WILL die if it attacks you moderately correctly
you're not surviving that. even if he has half stam

[rancid raptor]

Deino danger is NOT equal to land dino danger when drinking from deino infested waters, which you said earlier
and i explained it with the scenario

[north quiver]

I have survived many deino grabs and so have many players I’ve played with

[rancid raptor]

Explain how you continuously allegedly survived the deino grabs

[feral solstice]

And I said I exaggerated it. Your point is still flawed.

[rancid raptor]

Can you explain the scenarios

[rancid raptor]

Okay so you admit you were wrong about it

That's cool, because we all know it's undeniable that deino is the largest danger when drinking from their waters

[feral solstice]

In that sense, yes. But only slightly

[north quiver]

outstam the deino if they held a lunge, swam away if they dropped me to bite in the water. left me on low health each time

[feral solstice]

Hence the word exaggerated

[rancid raptor]

No, not even slightly. Deino will have an infinitely larger chance of killing you when it grabs you, than if a few omnis get to you etc

[feral solstice]

And to that degree I still disagree

[north quiver]

I suggest you rack up more than 300 hours before religiously trying to defend something

[rancid raptor]

Outstam it? So, the deino didn't think to bring you to the middle of the lake - release you, bite you repeatidly and repeat? which is what it should have done when it noticed its stam was going to run out?
(deino skill issue)

swam away if they dropped you? AKA the deino didn't manage to grab you in time, midjudging the distance you had to land?
(deino skill issue, again)

These scenarios are invalid because the deino could have killed you in both instances, easily, if it knew what 2 do

[feral solstice]

Deino is hidden in water, you can be hidden in a bush, and it conceals you both almost the exact same. And sure, it’ll probably take longer for one to kill than the other, but that’s still nearly the same.

[north quiver]

lake on spiro? what map have you been playing on lol

[feral solstice]

So by all accounts, they are almost the same risk.

[icy lion]

You're being condescending again. Bad players exist

[rancid raptor]

not lake, water. whatever. point still stands, the scenarios were invalid with all due respect

[rancid raptor]

How am I being condescending

[rancid raptor]

Yes bad players exist but you can't use that as an example of what a deino can actually do

[latent olive]

what on earth is this argument

[icy lion]

Claiming that someone's experiences are "invalid" because you, personally, want better

[north quiver]

if it was a lake then I would be 100% dead each time. the rivers on spiro aren’t too wide, which aided in my survival and other people’s survival

[latent olive]

if a deino grabs you, you are dead

(unless you have massive stamina like tenonto 💪)

[icy lion]

Bad players exist, they will be encountered, they should be considered in balance

[rancid raptor]

If a carno downs an omni with a charge, and doesn't manage to kill it with bites, we can't deny their ability to do it - because that scenario involves a bad carno