general-feedback-discussion

[limber hull]

Because that creates frustration

[swift atlas]

ok, no buff, but you need to keep a good diet to keep stats at default level, it would be the same impact. If you are not well feed, you are low on weight

[limber hull]

"Oh wow that carno 2 shot me it would have been nice to know he had the damage buff before he literally destroyed me"

[icy lion]

Which I feel can come as a rework to malnutrition and starvation

That doesn't mean you need to give the opposite end of the spectrum a weight buff

[swift atlas]

the point is, malnutrition is basically a ideia, noone with 10hours of game will ever see that happening

[limber hull]

I genuinely think adding a system where full stomach = slow nutrient drain and empty stomach = rapid nutrient drain is a system they should REALLY look into

Also make organs the sole provider of nutrients thank you

[swift atlas]

would be a hard balance, but it could come with a a bad effect as strong as the current extra buff. But even working to keep the default stast would be enough hard

[limber hull]

I'm so sick of people holding off on foods because
A: They don't give nutrients
B: I don't want that nutrient
C: I'm keeping my stomach empty in case I find a nutrient

An animal DOESN'T want to be hungry

The weird as hell hunger meta is so dumb to me

[swift atlas]

and this goes to reach what i said, we need level of, each, and you need to sustain a balance

not make builds of diet

this should be perk or other system

[icy lion]

From what we know, perks are primarily planned to alter gameplay, not stats, though that may change

[limber hull]

I want someone to look at another player and go

1: My animal is good at hunting that animal
2: That animal has organs, which give me nutrients
3: That animal has meat, which keeps my stomach full and slows my nutrient drain, as well as staves off starvation

I want to hunt that animal

Not

1: I COULD hunt that animal, but it does not give nutrients
2: The organs are not worth it due to the fact they give small boosts, and I could just hunt the animals on my specific diet
3: I don't want the worthless meat it provides, because I could be eating an animal who is on my diet, or even AI for more gain

I will not hunt that animal

[swift atlas]

i hope it changes, or diet changes at some point. Bad diet is just something that could not even exist in the game, because rn no one reach that point. Maybe when the game become harder it will be more important, but even so, keeping 1 nutrient and not having any bad effect is just poor

this is why levels of each nutrient should exist, and for each level you have a bad effect or not fully good effect

[limber hull]

I also want AI to be viewed as a quick boost to hunger, staving off nutrient drain and starvation, not an easy nutrient boost

[swift atlas]

i'm not a big fan of specific specie as diet. I was thing more about each organ, meat and bones giving specific nutrients, and this would be to every specie

and definitely big animals shouldn't survive with AI

it's kinda hard to think about how make diet more challenging because rn is just to easy, we would need a lot more change before it

[urban flax]

I mostly agree with you on diets and the needed rework, except on AI. AI should be treated like dinos, actually rewarding to kill but hard to hunt.

And if you can't circumvent the "dumb AI brain" then just buff their stats, make them super sneaky, idk. Deers could go 70 km/h, boars could hide in bushes, have damage resistance and run away when they're hurt... The fact they are free food annoys me greatly

[lone plinth]

Well yea there is kind of bugs where frogs/deers/chickens just stand in one place to hunt em, also very loud to hear them which makes is annoying. Like boar and deer almost hv the same sound effect (while running) or I'm just a beginner yet and cant really hear difference. AI spawn could be better and sometimes if I hunt as a juvi the rabbit almost makes me full which is imo a bit overkill or the boar is enough to feed a subadult. (ofc depends on specie) But thats my kind of beginner opinion yet :3 I just came to chat

[proud coral]

I like this.

I like this a lot. You get Diet Man's approval. c:

[feral solstice]

Hold up

Are you insinuating that keeping yourself full should slow down hunger drain???

https://tenor.com/view/genius-shit-snoop-dogg-phat-tuesdays-thats-genius-its-genius-gif-24914106

[limber hull]

And that starvation should accelerate nutrient drain, yes

[feral solstice]

If your nutrients drain before you take starvation damage than I’ll take it

This is the perfect system

Makes the game feel more like a survival game

[limber hull]

I think it should do both at the same time, personally. My idea was basically

Full stomach = 1/2 nutrient drain speed
50% stomach = Normal drain speed
1%, approaching empty stomach = ALMOST 2x drain speed
Empty stomach = 4x drain speed

Don’t starve, it should be very punishing

[feral solstice]

I actually think it would be punishing enough to drain nutrients before starving.

By the time you starve, you’re now in a bad diet

Thus meaning it’ll be hard to bounce back from since you’ll be enduring malnutrition

[limber hull]

I mean, the idea is you SHOULDN'T endure malnutrition, since organs would provide hefty nutrients and food would prevent said drain

[feral solstice]

Endures the wrong word

Incur I mean

[sand lantern]

@limber hull you usually persuade me quite well in ur discussions. What do you think about two very strong apexes coming after dilo?

[limber hull]

After dilo?

WDYM after dilo

I don't know if it was specifically given any timeframe compared to other animals

[sand lantern]

I think I remember something about dilo and Herrera coming after dible

Then the two apexes

[limber hull]

But I know that isn't the point, so I'll get to the actual question.

The two apexes are good. The way they're doing it is making them optional to unofficials, and not accessible in officials. The idea is to see how they'd interact with our current roster, without ruining the game for people who don't want it (they can join servers without these animals if they want to avoid them).

It also satisfies those who have been PLEADING for animals like rex, giving them their opportunity to test them. Its important they know how easy/hard it is to grow an apex animal like rex or trike, and how powerful they should be in their strongest states

They'll be moved to official servers eventually, but with our current roster, that simply isn't viable, so they'd be unofficial only once released

My biggest concern is that rex would entirely invalidate stego, but with the fact that they'd be unofficial only, devs can keep an eye on their performance without harming the official experience with their presence, and they can make tweaks for when they are officially released, allowing animals like stego to be prepared for their presence

[scarlet ocean]

I disagree with apexes this year simply cause of this vid, to me it made alot of sense, talking about player influence and viability even in unofficial servers, it doesn’t matter wether it’s gonna be in official or unofficial, the roster doesn’t vary from official to unofficial (except said apexes) 💀 https://youtu.be/CYVrcFgbW60

[limber hull]

i really dont like x zaugers takes personally

[zinc meadow]

Based, also I agree

[limber hull]

hes the same guy who decided to throw a hissy fit, throw a fight with Dondi, then get banned because of his outright direct rudeness in his tantrum

[scarlet ocean]

I didn’t either till I started watching it 😅 made much more sense when I gave his vids the time of day and focus/attention

[scarlet ocean]

I try to overlook peoples history, if he was a murderer, and still said 1 logical thing, all Gucci to me 👍

[limber hull]

and i literally watched this fight unfold, he was exceptionally unpleasant and nasty

i mean, i also think he just makes outright bizarre takes

[compact flare]

I don’t know why he cares so much it’s not even like they’re going to be on official

[scarlet ocean]

Specifically about the apex thing?

[limber hull]

like his whole strain video, which doesn't discuss any strain but hyper, and then proceeds to use legacy stats to back his case

[compact flare]

let people play the apexes they want to, just not on official

[limber hull]

exactly

its like humans, who cares

[zinc meadow]

If the server's don't want the apexes, oh well, they can remove them

[limber hull]

literally all it does is provide more server options to hosts

[scarlet ocean]

Balance reasons 💀 humans don’t impact balance at all, apexes would be detrimental though imo

[limber hull]

so don't play on those servers

[compact flare]

Then that server can disable them if they find the apexes too powerful

[limber hull]

that's on the server host for sacrificing the balance, not on the devs

[scarlet ocean]

Ig I don’t see the different in official or unofficial, to me it’s still isle and should remain as balanced as possible no matter what people want or don’t want

[limber hull]

then you're going to hate modding

[scarlet ocean]

Yeah, probably XD

[limber hull]

but again, you can evade said modded servers

[proud coral]

Dondi has talked about how The Isle was always meant to be molded by the players, hence why there's the "Official Isle Experience" that will only be on officials. Players can change dinos, mechanics, etc. on their servers to make their own experiences. That's also why it's really odd when people say a dino is a useless addition. Like cool....so play on a server without it. Don't like humans? Disable em. Want dinos but no diets? Disable diets. Ye get the gist 😛

[scarlet ocean]

I advocate for games to be theyre very best self, without needing mods, but ig a game itself can’t always make everyone happy

[scarlet ocean]

Ye, easily

[limber hull]

I want the game to be the best it can be without mods

[zinc meadow]

Also may be for that general audience again hearing that "Oh boy, the Isle has received the T rex!"
But otherwise, it's less that they're adding apexes, and more that it's an option to include, else you get the general experience.

[limber hull]

But the rex and trike additions don't TAKE AWAY anything

They're an option

[compact flare]

I think it’s fine them wanting to add apexes this early, it gives them a visual on how they can further balance the animals without putting them in a completely overpowered or underpowered state

[limber hull]

If they added rex and trike in EVERY server, then there'd be a problem

[compact flare]

I’m sure at release apexes are going to be busted though

[limber hull]

I would rather see if Rex invalidated Stego in unofficials, rather than knowing that stegos are entirely useless in every server thanks to it

[scarlet ocean]

I’d say more so an assumption, of how players will react and how they will play out in balance with the roster we have + 2 apex, rather than an opinion. Just ppl assuming that this is how it’s gonna go

[limber hull]

Speaking of stego needs to be able to do something about it

[scarlet ocean]

Idk why stego is a scorpion honestly 💀

And also not an apex, appearently

[limber hull]

Deino and stego not being apexes is still bizarre to me

[compact flare]

stego swings hurt but if Rex can just juke it and cripple it it’s dead

[scarlet ocean]

Deino maybe, but it could still semi count, I think stego is more of an apex than deino, since spino is said to overpower deino in water 💀

[limber hull]

which i ALSO hate

[proud coral]

I still don't think that's gonna work out right.

[limber hull]

i hate, hate, hate spino easily beating deino

[compact flare]

They are in this very strange category on being a borderline apex but still aren’t considered apexes for some reason

[scarlet ocean]

Yup, same, a semi aquatic vs a proper aquatic, and the semi aquatic wins 💀

[proud coral]

Spino from what we know sinks in water.

How the heck do you lose to something you can literally just hold space and swim above and bite.

I'd rather it be more like

Shallows - Spino
Deep - Deino

More interesting dynamic then "nope, I beat you, period, deal with it"

[zinc meadow]

That's also assuming Spino can't "jump" in water

[scarlet ocean]

Yeah, That seems better, makes deinos passing shallower rivers more exciting

[compact flare]

what if a spino just casually swims in a pond you dragged your fat alligator self on to land and you can’t do anything about it

[proud coral]

Even if it could, I cannot imagine it being more agile than a Deino

[compact flare]

seems unfair

[limber hull]

My issue is that

A: They're adding droughts, which can reduce the amount of space a deino can move
B: Spino is INFINITELY more capable on land, so the moment it tries to escape out of the water, spino wins
C: They have the opportunity for a FAR more interesting design of an animal with spino and its interactions with other apexes, but choose to make it just stomp deinos

[compact flare]

a school bus sized alligator should be able to be a competent killer underwater

[scarlet ocean]

Agreed, but maybe that will change if enough people rally after spino is in the game XD normally works that way

[proud coral]

It's so friggn' weird that they treat Deino like it's still planned to be D.rugosus like the old days despite it being 8 friggn' tons.

[scarlet ocean]

It’s so odd, cause deino is almost the same weight as a rex, and not even an apex 💀

[proud coral]

Like it REALLY feels like they can't decide what Deino should be

And it's resulted in Deino being the lamest thing ever

[scarlet ocean]

The amount of hate the isle will get from all the ppl not wanting stego and deino buffs though, since they’re so comfortable with not seeing it as an apex 💀 omg

[proud coral]

Good thing custom options for servers will exist for them then.

[scarlet ocean]

Yup

[proud coral]

😎 👍

[scarlet ocean]

But about stego, why is stego a scorpion, help the poor thing

Even it’s new uppercut attack won’t save it

[proud coral]

It's actually planned to get more attacks, it's just right now it would be overkill.

[zinc meadow]

Deino fills the area of "waters edge death machine" whereas Spino can't quite get the jump as easily, especially with its high silhouette and negligible upwards movement

[proud coral]

It will get em when it needs em basically.

[scarlet ocean]

Hopefully

[limber hull]

Personally, if I was tasked with designing spino, I would make it a bully brawler of the highest degree. Every animal isn't safe from it, and it will contest any territory it can.

It is capable in both shallows and depths, and thus, tends to go head to head with deinosuchus and deinocherius for their respective areas. Spino is usually the underdog when facing them in their homes, but is superior to both on dry land, or in the ecosystem of the other (beats deinosuchus in shallows, and cherius in the depths). It also likes to contest big land boys, like rex and giga, and has the power to do so.

Its greatest weakness would be its speed, barely outrunning an anky in a footrace, and being outran by literally everything else, even shants (I'm not including sauropods because they're an entirely unique case) and a pitiful biteforce for its size. However, it'd have powerful claws, an excellent turn rate, high health and capability in moving in both land and water comfortably

[proud coral]

And it keeps the F call hiss >:I That too pls.

[scarlet ocean]

Isn’t that bully brawler type better suited for rex? Since I liked when someone said that spino should be kinda like cera, not being a brawler or a chaser, but a “stay back or ur dead” kind of deal

[limber hull]

Cera is a bully though, that's kind of its core identity

[scarlet ocean]

Ah, thought it was 100% defenseful

[proud coral]

I remember long ago Dondi mentioned Spino being "offense in water, defense on land" and being unwieldy due to it's weight, but it could also use that to it's advantage.

Of course this was very long ago.

[limber hull]

Rex is stated to be a bloodhound tracker, and based on what we've seen, it's VERY fast for a brawler

[scarlet ocean]

I may not have a perfect definition of what a brawler is then. And yeah, heard that rex thing, W

[zinc meadow]

Rex trot from what I've seen is SO much faster than anything we're used to

Looked Teno fast nearly

Although that was definitely over a year ago

[proud coral]

Out of curiosity, where was the bloodhound thing said? 😮 I've always been confused as to what they want Rex to be so this is interesting :3

[limber hull]

dondi said it, i think you can find it if you search up his name and bloodhound

[proud coral]

Actually I can't because my search is being REALLY weird....wasn't working earlier and still isn't :C But I believe ya.

Stoopit Discord :c

[scarlet ocean]

To me it says he never said the words bloodhound or blood hound in text X-X maybe it was in a stream

[proud coral]

It's just refusing to load anything for me ;c

[limber hull]

searching just seems broke atm lol

[proud coral]

[limber hull]

Personally, I'd like it if

Giga is by fast the most nimble of the three, with good trot and sprint speeds, and decent stamina/stamina regen. It also is very much an opportunist, smelling blood from great distances and hopping in to steal the weakened prey and finish the job. It's also great at bleeding down larger kills, like smaller sauropods and shants. It suffers against armoured targets like anky, and can't swim for the life of it, but generally finds its home best in open plains, where it can quickly mobilise towards large prey.

Rex is a powerhouse walking, being quick death to smaller animals. With its crushing bite, its a threat to many smaller animals, but isn't afraid to pick on its own size, and has the trotspeed to keep up with said prey. It suffers with sustained speed though, and most smalls can simply keep up a pace it cannot, although it can track them down again. It also really doesn't like punching up, and doesn't have many tools to escape a fight it's overcommitted to.

Spino is a defensive bully bastard, taking food, habitats and fish from other animals, and doing so with ease. It fears very little due to its size, and if it is afraid, it can simply go into the water to escape, or out if the threat comes from the water. It also just beats the hell out of anything near it with massive claws, and has the healthpool to just shrug off massive attacks. It's just REALLY slow, so it tends to feed on fish, stolen kills and unexpecting animals

[scarlet ocean]

Yup, good takes, I’m sure the rex and giga one has been liked multiple times by mods and devs already. Not sure how rex would be so good with tracking with the awful tracking system we have now though 💀 lol

[proud coral]

I hope the sub-adult stages for all of em are just as interesting <:3

Remember sub Giga hahahaha

[scarlet ocean]

Omg, yeah XD let’s not hope for the same thing

(Talking about giga) Paying respects to the amazing legacy model that’s getting changed to a worse one in evrima 🫡

[feral solstice]

Bit late to the table but

I don’t mind apexes being released this early, as an option for unofficials

If they want to, they can bring in apexes and the devs can see what their opinions of a true apex are.

It would essentially be lining the foundation work and a test before bringing in other true apexes.

[sand lantern]

I just want to ask everyone this
Would you rather have 2 mid tiers in official or 2 apexes unoffical?
I think most people would rather have apexes but I just want to see what people think

[proud coral]

Tiers are meaningless to me, so I'm fine either way

[limber hull]

i don't really see the need for the midtiers. I get it, big allo popular, but I don't really know what it'd achieve. Also I find most of the mids in this game really bland, since they're big enough to be self-sufficient without cool little special mechanics that assist their survival like the smaller tiers, while also too small to have the insane power behind them like the apexes

[sand lantern]

why cant they have cool special mechanics in evrima

[limber hull]

they CAN, just from their concept art, they don't really have anything really cool or standout

[sand lantern]

yeah

[limber hull]

nor would they really need it

they're easily self-sufficient, they don't need gimmicks on top of that

like allosaurus is quite literally the definition of a generalist dinosaur, for better and worse

[proud coral]

Allo has the gimmick of being stoopit 😎

[sand lantern]

idk why but I just cant wait for mid tier roster to grow

[limber hull]

its likely got great stats and is a very capable combatant, it just doesn't have stuff like nocturnal habits, climbing, aquatic mobility, pouncing, venom, so on

[sand lantern]

even tho there is nothing cool about im just still hoping they will change that

[proud coral]

There can be beauty in simplicity

[limber hull]

like allo is probably just going to be a generally good stat dinosaur with no real glaring weakness

[proud coral]

Allo being the dinosaur of dinosaurs sounds nice

[limber hull]

but nothing really super interesting like mono spit, herra climb, beipi dive or troodon mimic

[proud coral]

As long as it doesn't have ice feet anymore

[sand lantern]

do you like mono spit?

I like the idea of spit but it just seems really bad

[limber hull]

i think it's really cool, yea

[proud coral]

Shnozz Gloss

[sand lantern]

how do you think they could make sucho special?

[proud coral]

[sand lantern]

[proud coral]

Sucho has dat pelican pouch

[sand lantern]

not enough

[proud coral]

[sand lantern]

I want a good reason to pick it over spino

even tho spino is my fav dino

sucho gotta have something

[proud coral]

Well if you're comparing em

Sucho takes less time
Prolly has a less demanding life style
Can prolly swim unlike fatty Spino
Is said to be more of a wader whereas Spino just kinda kills stuff
Very likely live in different environments

[limber hull]

Like looking at our midtier roster:

• Carno, the most unique out of them with its crazy speed, but barely even a midtier, closer to pseudo-mids like cera and teno
• Styraco, another ceratopsian, nothing against that, but it's another ceratopsian, we can all kinda guess it's going to play like its cousins
• Maia, probably going to be a quick herbivore with okay attacks, doubt it'll have anything super unique outside of MAYBE nesting
• Allo, it's allo, it's literally generic therapod, it's going to be generic therapod
• Alberto, basically just minirex. Nothing really bad with that, it's just minirex tho, it's not going to be much more than minirex
• Plateo (????)
• Cory (Para but smaller I guess)

Like midtiers are just kinda all very "good stats, very capable at survival, that's it"

[proud coral]

I want Kano Plateo

[sand lantern]

is bary small tier?

is sucho apex?

is para apex?

[proud coral]

Like you think you're smart with your attacks

Nope. Plateo has a parry/counter attack ready and you fell right into it's trap

Tiers are mostly made up so different people will give you different answers

They're kinda bad really.

[sand lantern]

we could make more tiers

[proud coral]

[sand lantern]

tiny small small mid mid big mid apex spuperAPEX DCDEGD

[proud coral]

Pseudo-Large Mid

[sand lantern]

i think allo would be a great addition rn

even tho it has nothing unique

it would let people play big scary all rounder theropod that doesnt take 8 hours to grow and can hunt anything

in packs

[proud coral]

I feel it'd just become the new Carno where there's nothing but Allos everywhere

At least in the current state

[sand lantern]

Id rather carno be something I can run from

also mr trike what is ur opinion on orni

[limber hull]

Shallow wader that is a rare aquatic that DOESN'T stick around the deep. Would spend its time hanging out near shallow waters, fishing and vibing. It'd have a very decent trotspeed, and would be nearly immune to the slowing effects of shallow water, able to quickly move around. It'd swim well, but not dive, making it stay away from depths.

Its sharp claws, imposing size and standoffish attitude would make it a large threat to anything planning to come near its waters, and it would easily school midtiers and below who dare overstep boundries, making it the yin to deino's yang, protecting the shallows the deino has no agency is. While slow, its ability to use the waters as a way to slow down its opponents would be vital in losing predators larger than itself.

Playing more into a corpse bully opportinist + territorial defensive carnivore that has a few piscivore habits that keep it fed and healthy, even without nearby dinosaurs, would mean that if it's not in direct combat to keep its territory secure, it's vibing and minding its own business. It's also an excellent bane to the Deinocherius, who it would share shallows with, dispatching the young before they can become massive territory hogs, and being the main adversary to the otherwise uncontested apex

[sand lantern]

I dont havnt watched his stufff in a long time but last I checked it was cool

[sand lantern]

👍🏿

[limber hull]

That's what I'd do with sucho

I think the shallows are an underappreciated part of the aquatic ecosystem that needs more residents than just one apex

Deino, bary, beipi, minmi, austro and spino all seem to prefer deeper waters

[sand lantern]

idk bout austro

he could hang out with the such

[proud coral]

I don't know if Minmi would prefer deeper waters since it sinks.

[limber hull]

It's a shallow wader that vibes and burrows in the deep

Minmi could be a shallow animal, which would be cool

Especially if we had minmi-shaped rocks it could cosplay as when scared lol

[proud coral]

Wait it burrows IN water??

[limber hull]

Honestly, now that I think about it, I'd kinda like a shallow-based minmi

[proud coral]

Shallow based 😎

[limber hull]

In this concept art, we see it poking its little head out of the water, and considering how small it is, this water couldn't be that deep

Looking at the size chart, the water it's in would actually be probably good wading water for a sucho

Honestly, sucho, cherry and minmi all sharing a similar ecosystem could be really cool

[proud coral]

I hope Cheirus can submerge in some way literally so I can see it rise up and do this....

Even if it's just dunking it's head

[sand lantern]

is teno already have its semi aquatic abilites or is the WIP?

[proud coral]

Teno currently isn't considered semi-aquatic, just a good swimmer.

Though I am very much for it being made into one.

[limber hull]

it is a VERY good swimmer, mind you

like it outclasses our entire roster besides deino

[sand lantern]

I heard something about it diving once

[limber hull]

who is MEANT to be almost purely aquatic

[sand lantern]

so teno faster than cerato in water?

[proud coral]

I would like if Teno could dive and snag some aquatic plants now and then, but that's pretty much it. It'd still be more land based. Like a Moose

[proud coral]

🤷

[modern gulch]

@ashen mortar sounds good but the mechanic would take too much dev time i think :(

[ashen mortar]

yep, agreed sadly 😦

[limber hull]

@willow steeple they literally said in that very devlog that new dinos will be added in U6, and it's not just Troodon

[left loom]

@willow steeple if that's the only bug troodon has that's impressive

I don't think you understand the hell that is game design

[willow steeple]

Don’t get me wrong when they release a Dino the animations are beautiful no other game can compare to it it’s more of just like I would actually like to see them release stuff and bring the community over from legacy I feel like the troodon has been in production forever now at this point

[left loom]

It has, and that sucks. Were getting 2 dinos in 6.5

[hollow vault]

@minor reef giant bugs existed because increased oxygen

It wouldn’t make sense for them to even exist

Also, it would freak some people out, especially arachnophes

[icy lion]

This is a sci-fi game that bends plenty of rules, and meganeura is confirmed, I believe

[robust dome]

ARK Is very popular yet no one is complaining about those since they are in the game

[minor reef]

First of all, you don't think dinosaurs got to their size for the same reason? Its not hard to make connections there too, especially considering the rumored dinosaur cryptids are claimed to be smaller than their fossil counterparts. These things lived alongside the dinosaurs and impacted their world. Bringing them into the game would make sense due to genre, environment, and diversification of said environment.

Secondly, its supposed to be a horror-survival game and people should honestly expect to get the jitters. They're also in Ark Survival and nobody complains about them on there, as others here have referenced.

[urban flax]

Ark is much less grounded than The Isle is trying to be. Sure, The Isle is sci-fi as well, but comparing these two games in terms of universe is like saying what appears in World of Warcraft would also fit The Witcher's universe because they're both fantasy. I don't see the appeal in oversized bugs, and even the largest arthropods that ever existed would hardly ever pose a threat to a dryo, unless they get massively oversized, which I'm not a fan of either.

I'm not certain an arthropleura chasing you at a whopping 6 km/h would be that scary either...

[minor reef]

I didn't suggest "massively oversizing" any of them. I based one off of archaeological evidence of a giant centipede and the other off of a rumored cryptid that lives in an area that is incredibly unexplored. The others referenced before (cockroaches, meganeura, beetles) could very easily fit into the island as AI that can obstruct the humans that they plan to improve upon. None of it is farfetched enough to compare it the way you just did because many of these creatures lived alongside dinosaurs before.
They could certainly speed up the arthropleura; why would it only go that fast? How do we know they weren't fast at all?

[urban flax]

Insects aren't made to grow to such enormous sizes as arthropleura did. The only reason it was even able to walk was because it was a centipede, not an insect, so it had many more legs to support its weight. And even small centipedes are extremely slow, I can't imagine an arthropleura going above 15 km/h even if it's sped up by a large margin. As for the cryptid, I don't see how that related to a dinosaur game at all. The Isle is not a game about cryptids, else why not add a wendigo or werewolves ? They just don't fit

The Isle has its own monsters planned, and I think all of them are much cooler than a big centipede or an oversized spider. We've got cannibals, eyeless, dinosaur-people and psychic dinos and I think that's enough.

[minor reef]

Really? Are you sure about that? Have you seen the amount of fossil evidence that they've found for giant insects, arachnids, and other critters? Insects, arachnids and such grew to gigantic sizes due to increased levels of oxygen in the air. These aren't one-offs - it was normal for them to grow so big. In fact, there are giant shrimp and giant sea spiders that still grow quite large today.

We can work out the centipede going quite fast based on their smaller counterparts; have you ever seen a house centipede? They're incredibly fast because of the amount of legs that they've got.

As for the cryptid, I'm not suggesting its addition simply due to it being a cryptid - its a giant spider. If you consider that apparently they want meganeura playable in the game (as stated by another player earlier), then having a giant spider that can spin a large web would be perfect for catching it. I'd even go so far as to suggest it could catch the cannibals and eyeless in its webs if they're not careful. Adding to the Isle's ecosystem, I do believe they'd both be well rounded not just in terms of interactions with the environment, the dinosaurs and other creatures, but to the dinosaur-people, the mercenaries, and any other playable group of humans.

[urban flax]

I'm certain that if meganeura is really planned, it'll only be as an AI, seeing as it'd be free food for most dinos. Also I believe the "house centipedes" you're talking about are the silverfish, which aren't really similar in terms of build to an arthropleura. Also, living in water allows to grow much bigger than a creature could be if it lived on land because water compensates for heavy weight. And no land bug ever grew as big as arthropleura which, admittedly, was quite massive. But as I stated, I don't think any of these things would be a good addition, either as AI or playable. Still, they'd be preferable as AI because then they would not need to serve as a useful addition to the ecosystem, but imagine how boring it would be to fight against a giant spider that can spin webs at you. It's like being lunged by a deino, except it's from a distance and it takes even longer to die while being powerless.

I don't know why you would want big bugs as the villains in the game when we already have designs for fully original and actually interesting monsters.

[minor reef]

You're assuming quite a bit with my suggestion, including that I'm stupid. By house centipede, I mean house centipede - not a silverfish. These things actually EAT silverfish, as well as spiders, bed bugs, beetles, ants, and anything else they find. They can also grow quite large if left alone for extended periods of time. I know people who mistake them for being a small snake due to how big they can get.

No land bug grew that big, except for all of the fossilized remains we've been finding. How ignorant can you get about this? That one is grasping at straws my dude. All of the insects, arthropods and arachnids they've found fossilized are generally massive sizes. There is no discrepancy that they used to grow to gigantic proportions at one point, and oxygen has been pointed out as the main factor.

So first of all, how are dinosaurs going to catch and eat meganeura? They fly, meaning technically only pteranadon would be the only one currently capable of catching it. The meganeura would need a solid predator, and having a giant spider capable of spinning large webs would be sufficient to doing so.

I believe playables would be quite a unique, fun and terrifying experience. I'm not sure why you have such an issue with this when they're adding carnivorous plants, cannibals, and psychic dinosaurs. Adding giant spiders and centipedes wouldn't be that big of a difference from any of that at all, and would certainly add to the experience of players playing as humans. This has nothing to do with "villains" and everything to do with unique playability, diversification of the ecosystem, the game's genre, a new playable option for players, and the eerieness of the Isle's story.

[proud coral]

I actually like big critters, but not overly big per se. Like if it's man eating sized spiders for instance, then that's a bit much. But just disturbingly big, sure. I've wanted big bog spiders that make thick webs and serve as a snack, potentially even a threat for very small stuff. Especially hatchlings.

And of course Arthropluera because it's neat

[robust dome]

@vocal pecan pretty sure the purpose is not "Do I want to alert other dinos ?" but rather so we know he is there

[vocal pecan]

If you're referring to the "(potentially giving away the presence of a hostile or spy)" piece, I meant that more as the automatic animation could alert us to another dino whether or not we know they're there. This could be a problem if the other dino was completely hidden and we hadn't seen them. It would be somewhat similar (but scaled down) to The Isle Legacy's issue with the herbivore AI spawning around carnivores, inadvertently alerting others to a carnivore's presence.

[safe hearth]

Cerato reveal:
8m long
2,5m high
And just 500kg weight?

In Legacy had the juvi that weight..
Hopefully dondi means juvis with that picture😅

[limber hull]

@sick pond the document is literally tiled "UNRELIABLE_DOCUMENTATION"

Don't worry about numbers

[sick pond]

it was made by video game developers actually

[limber hull]

what

i know that, it's MEANT to be unreliable

it's not an accurate measurement of its weight ingame

[sick pond]

ok

how does this matter btw

[limber hull]

you said you think the weight should be changed

it's literally not an accurate portrayal of the in-game weight

[sick pond]

whats your point man

[limber hull]

it's not 500kg so dont worry about it

[light depot]

i think he is trying to say thats the weight he wants it to be, regardless if it is reliable or not

[sick pond]

just saying 500kg is a bad idea get off my ass dude

[limber hull]

IT'S NOT 500KG

That's what I'm trying to say

[sick pond]

yeah good it's a bad idea

next

[limber hull]

It's an unreliable glance sheet for lore, it's not accurate to the actual game

Jesus I'm trying to be helpful

[proud coral]

[safe hearth]

You was realy helpful for me
Thx😉

[limber hull]

at least someone appreciates it lol

[safe hearth]

👍

[hollow vault]

I personally think giant spiders would be a bit far fetched

But giant spider webs? Yea sure

Also the only reason arthropluera and such got to such a size was because of the increased oxygen they could get inside of them

And by the looks of it I don’t think the isle has that insane amount of oxygen

[proud coral]

Well, we're getting Meganeura AI eventually according to Kissen and those are pretty big for bugs. So perhaps AE has a way to give stuff like....enhanced respiration or something 😛

[hollow vault]

Honestly

I don’t care about giant bugs, all I want as an AI is for my boi dodo to get in

[frozen heron]

@solar salmon It's a guesstimate by an AE worker that's trying to avoid getting mauled. The weight listed on that paper is not concrete at all

[nimble nebula]

DocktorMedic
mr. galli
Superlunary
Ellyldan

why dont you guys like the idea of the screen glitching like in Legacy for some buildings?

[obsidian jetty]

It was annoying as hell and those are dinosaurs not cyborgs...why would the presence of a building mess with their vision?

[proud coral]

Well first and foremost, it was said before by I think Punch to literally just be so that players would try and avoid the unfinished buildings. The second reason is it uh....just looked bad. No real reason to have it now.

Buildings aren't big unfinished blocks save Docks anymore and stuff is gonna be encouraged to go in em

Imagine trying to hunt a human as Rugops and you're met with static that's annoying <:C

[nimble nebula]

1 its for mostly aesthetics
2 its because we know the dinosaurs are somehow monitored (vitals diet age mating status etc) and when the dinosaur nest (which they arent supposed to do from a lore standpoint) they are free of such tracking implants and it would make sense they want dinosaurs somewhat away from human structures (again lore) but sure making it less annoying would make sense

[nimble nebula]

no reason to have it now is valid I dont remember punch saying that but I could have missed it

[nimble nebula]

making it less annoying would be a good idea or maybe a purely old broken down one mainly for lore or to look cool could provide such staticky effects personally I like the idea

[fair drum]

I have a suggestion. For the croc since there cold blooded. Could you make it so they have to bask in the sun. Since its a survival game where rest, and eating is important. defecating would make an interesting concept. Thanks i really love the evima. the steggo is mt favorite dino.

[olive swift]

#general-feedback

[sudden hinge]

@polar inlet they don’t do release dates.

[uneven mist]

@crystal trail reactions are being wierd again

[solar salmon]

Oh alr thank you!

[icy lion]

@forest fern Omniraptor was renamed because the devs plan on adding an accurate utahraptor as a separate playable species

Also, the bot's been acting up, hopefully it'll give your post reactions soon

[chrome urchin]

After spending 5 hours levelling my dino to 100% the server restarts and now I can't play on that server, I would still like to play on the game but i'm not willing to start a new dino when i know I have a grown one waiting for me.
could we not level our dinos not server dependant? so I could play the same Dino across multiple servers? thus not limiting players to 1 singular 100 player server
Would having a Dino list really affect the game in anyway? other than making casual players lives easier?

why is this being downvoted? whats the big negative?

[tall hearth]

This idea would make people able to grow apexes much much easier on low population servers during the quiet times of the day and then just have an apex ready to go on a populated server. Nah

[chrome urchin]

U can still do that in the day?

[tall hearth]

Also you should still be able to log on to a restarted server after it's back up.

[chrome urchin]

why would that be an issue if people could grow dinos that they want to play on

[tall hearth]

Unless you mean just not being able to join because a full server

[chrome urchin]

I had stuff to do so when i returned it was full, i think its silly to worry about people growing thats the main aim of the game

[tall hearth]

Nah you're missing the point of apexes. They're supposed to be mega hard to grow. Opposite of how they were in legacy.

[chrome urchin]

there not hard to grow tho

[tall hearth]

They will be in the future

[chrome urchin]

u sit in a bush and eat when u get low

[tall hearth]

Right now yeah, easy mode. Which is boring as all heck

[chrome urchin]

still so after hours and hours of game play, u think the player should be rewarded with not playing there apex as u say becasue the server is to busy?

Ahh sweet ive finally got my dino to 100% cant wait to play... oh server s are full ill stick around for 20 min trying to log

so the game become que simulator

[tall hearth]

That's what the server queue is for, if and when the server actually shows the correct population

[chrome urchin]

there is no server que lol it jus says its full

Full or u join

[tall hearth]

The server queue works when it shows 100/100.

[chrome urchin]

I had the server 95 - 99 and it just said no over and over, i still dont see what the problem would be having a dino list to just play the game

people are going to cheese the growing regardless on the big servers

[lone plinth]

same here

[chrome urchin]

theres nothing stopping me ligging in the morning and doing just that on EU1

why dose that matter if i hjave a big 100% but i cant log in to play it regardless

[tall hearth]

I said the problem. You are a couple friends grow apexes on a dead/low pop server, join a more full one and ruin that servers ecosystem.

[chrome urchin]

cant join the full ones there full

[tall hearth]

Dont play the full ones then idk

[chrome urchin]

and people going rouns mixed packing is a far worse thing than having a few sleeper 100%s

[lone plinth]

Queues also bugging and not activating at many times and we didn't mention 95+ player server lags/crash

[tall hearth]

My guy I have a job. I work 5 days a week. I love playing croc. I dont see the issue with 1 dino per server.

[chrome urchin]

I did that i played on EU7 so it wasnt full....... buyt now my croc is lost there as well because that server isnt up any more

lol fix that one

i play the quiet servers so i dont lose a slot only for them to be closed becasue the games not busy

[tall hearth]

Sometimes those servers go into the unofficial list. Check for it there

[chrome urchin]

so those dinos are lost till what? the weekend? but im busy so ive lost all that time and cant even play the game when i have time

[tall hearth]

It's been a known issue sometimes official servers appear in the unofficial list.

[obsidian jetty]

honestly...the biggest issue I see here is that growing is not considered "playing the game", which is a whole different topic altogether

[chrome urchin]

exactly so whats the harm in having a few dinos that are semi grown that u can play on when you have time free

instead of always starting at 5% unless u either wait 5 - 30 minutes to get on your server if its up

if anyone has another reason other than people can go grow on a quiet server id like to hear it

[obsidian jetty]

ok, how bout...there's probably going to be deathmatch/sandbox servers like there was on Legacy where you don't need to grow at all

[chrome urchin]

thats nothing to do with offical servers

[obsidian jetty]

no, but you don't have to play official servers if you don't like growing, right?

[chrome urchin]

and whoy would that matter if you have groing servers and ones that are 100% to start?

I like growing thats my point ive just spent 5 hours doing so

[obsidian jetty]

uh...now I'm confused...o.o If you like growing...then what's the big deal with growing another dino on another server so you have dinos on all servers?

[chrome urchin]

oh wow u dont have an argument then

[tall hearth]

[chrome urchin]

coz ive just invested 5 hour on 1 dino why would i want to start that process again

Maybe i should finds the adult discussion page if that's the level of response i get

[obsidian jetty]

I see where you're coming from and I do understand what you're saying. I just don't think that having shared dinos for all servers or even a list to pick from is necessary for official servers. I could see that as a feature for unofficials, like a server cluster type of thing for example.

plus...a list of dinos to pick from would make revenge killing for example a lot easier too...grow 6 rexes and throw them at someone one by one until they die. This is possible already but you need multiple steam accounts to do it.

[chrome urchin]

Ok thats a fair point, but that's only going to be 1 Try hard in every 1000. most people who love the grief play with others anyway

[fair drum]

thank you

[olive swift]

sorry for the ping at 11 pm

forgot to turn it off

[fair drum]

its ok

[olive swift]

also, i think theres a cult against "defecation" in the isle, be careful they are very moody

[fair drum]

lol. well you guys are building the game on realism of dinosaurs. so being able to poo is only logical. just not like ark where you go randomly. like sims when your waste meter gets full go lol.

[olive swift]

hey man, im not against it or for it, all im saying is a guy literally made a 3 page long google doc on why not to add defecation and, the other one.

[fair drum]

wow

[olive swift]

im convinced these people are convicted murderers in 5 states and 3 countries

[fair drum]

lol

[olive swift]

im only semi joking

[olive swift]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jVl7Q8opKC_99ppnzMDkGcbTbLww5tqOkwSAKLepjQ0/edit

dont ask why i have this saved

[faint folio]

Honestly, I don't really like that doc's argument. It's logic is basically "well poop is gross and it will encourage roleplayers to fetishize poop. Not in my wholesome dino murder game!" 😂

I dislike poop mechanics because frankly, there are childish people who will abuse the mechanic to troll. Pooping in other players nests, or on them as a form of trash talk. I've seen this happen on ark servers.... And honestly there are better ways to improve the scent system than to allow dinosaurs to choose when to poop

[olive swift]

again, not trying to prove any points. just saying that some people really hate that idea

[faint folio]

Yeah that's fair

[tacit trail]

Tell Why As Soon As I Kill Something The Server Restarts?

[scarlet ocean]

that’s a game troll moment, it’s useful to keep track of the restart times 😅

[tacit trail]

Its Getting So Old Though

[forest fern]

Oh sorry didnt know that

[celest basin]

@scarlet ocean the cerato seems to have its head down in that ss

[scarlet ocean]

Yeah, it does 😅

But the other allo > carno > cera size comparison screenshot that’s going around makes cera look like a proper midget, and I just hope it stays the size that way shown in those screenshots. (Aka the stream where the screenshots were taken)

[celest basin]

Even if it is a midget( which it is), cerato can still be super heavy. It has the chonk and the skin

[scarlet ocean]

How heavy you think? There is no way it’s gonna go anything above 1.5T

[limber hull]

please dont be heavier than carno for the love of god

[scarlet ocean]

If it’s heavier than carno 💀 bruh, (my fantasy wish it was ofc, since apparently cera supposed to fight allo), but it’s not how cera is

[icy lion]

Cera? Fighting allo?

[scarlet ocean]

Going off of legacy expectations

Carno being nothing, and cera and allo being a “fair” fight

[icy lion]

Pro tip, toss legacy in the bin. All of it

[scarlet ocean]

Good tip

[limber hull]

i still love how people have such a massive hatred for carno they would rather cera be an exceptionally OP and unfun animal just so the carnos get killed

[scarlet ocean]

But I am curious what kind of mid tier carnivores do we have then, since carno is mid tier, and so it cera, what would be 3rd 🥲

[scarlet ocean]

Ppl hate carno?

[proud coral]

YES

Ahem

Yes we do c:

[limber hull]

it's literally ridiculous

[scarlet ocean]

I think ppl hate that it’s overtuned, not the animal 💀

[limber hull]

nope

[proud coral]

Though I am not in the boat of making Cera just as bad

[scarlet ocean]

Right?

[icy lion]

I wouldn't call carno mid but tiers are subjective anyway

[limber hull]

just carno as an animal

[proud coral]

Oh I like the animal ;C

[scarlet ocean]

What 💀

[proud coral]

I don't like current Carno

[limber hull]

U5.5, where omnis obliterated carno, people still hated it

[proud coral]

But I DO like that it's starting to find itself as a small game hunter. Just needs to uh.....not punch up as it does.

[limber hull]

It doesn't punch-up perse

But it certainly punches too high

[scarlet ocean]

What would you call mid then? Out of the carnis, since there’s not many then, Bary? It’s most likely be cera ish strength

[proud coral]

Yeah that's what I mean 😛 A lil too good at fighting bigger stuff

[icy lion]

Allo, alberto, maybe sucho

[scarlet ocean]

Ok so, y’all don’t rlly hate carno, just hate up 6.5 carno

[proud coral]

Knocking down stuff like Teno just sounds.....blegh

[limber hull]

I'd call sucho above midtier honestly

[proud coral]

Fat Tier

[icy lion]

He's pretty thick in comparison

Nearly twice as large as allo

[scarlet ocean]

Yeah, id call sucho and Alberto preuso-apex along with acro maybe 🥲

[icy lion]

More "large" with acro

[limber hull]

Still hate pseudo-apex

[proud coral]

I call Sucho big

Because it's kinda big c:

[scarlet ocean]

I love pseudo apex XD cause pseudo apex is just “large tier”

[limber hull]

Large tier better

Big tier funnier. I like big tier

[icy lion]

*acro, sorry, alberto is solidly mid tier to me

[limber hull]

Just call it large tier then

IDK pseudo-apex is really dumb to me

[proud coral]

Dryo I call deer cow

[limber hull]

Especially when you could literally just call them large

[scarlet ocean]

It feels wrong 💀 I’m sorry

[proud coral]

[limber hull]

Pseudo-mid is weird because it's like, inbetween small and mid

[scarlet ocean]

Yeah,

[proud coral]

I hate all tiers people use, but the pseudo ones are the worst to me.

[scarlet ocean]

What’s wrong with tiers 🥲

The devs should come out and just say what Dino is what tier, drama over

[icy lion]

Tiers don't matter at the end of the day

Not in evrima

Not without progression

[proud coral]

Everyone has wildly different opinions on tiers that are almost always biased and they also just....create a weird mindset of "oh this thing is a higher tier than this thing, so it must be better"

And yeah they just don't matter. It makes the game seem too black and white.

[scarlet ocean]

Yeah, they don’t, but it’s like a “keep track of how strong this and that is”

Like a chart

[icy lion]

Which works until you have punch-up or punch-down animals like omni and deino

[proud coral]

That brings up the next issue of definitions of stuff like strong and viable. To some, literally only combat matters and nothing more. So they will only ever call something good at fighting strong.

Whereas over here we have Ptera that is technically the strongest since it can just live forever.

[scarlet ocean]

Truuue

[icy lion]

Sure, deino weighs 8 tons, but it's designed to be most effective against 4t or lower prey

[limber hull]

Ptera has always been S-Tier

[proud coral]

A lot of people think Ptera is weak because it dies easily in a fight

Stoopit deathmatch mindset

[icy lion]

And sure, omni is 450kg, but it's designed to kill the largest animals in groups

[scarlet ocean]

True, and then we wouldn’t suddenly call Omni an apex tier cause it’s meant to be a specific niche. I get it now

[limber hull]

Everything needs to be fight viable

It's why people cannot stand it when you point out cera is a bad hunter

Because they have this pre-existing image of picking cera and running around killing tenos, carnos and stegos

[scarlet ocean]

Idk why they can’t 🥲 like honestly

[limber hull]

IDK why they should

They have more tools than they could ask for to find food

[scarlet ocean]

I wonder what kind of carni would be equal to tenos power, I feel like allo would obliterate it, and carno which is right below, not obligate 💀

[scarlet ocean]

Exactly

[limber hull]

Currently, carno well exceeds teno's power lol

[proud coral]

The only thing I can understand is that currently, fighting is the only fun activity. So if it can't fight well, what's the point?

But even then it's still odd to assume it's ALWAYS gonna be like that.

[limber hull]

Because of the whole knockdown thing

[scarlet ocean]

Yeah, currently, but I more so meant overall. What carni exists that’s a proper teno matchup kind of carni

[limber hull]

Nothing, really, teno is a generalist herbivore really

It attracts attention from many carnivores, but it has no set rival

[scarlet ocean]

(Me here always and forever advocating that this game isn’t a pvp game 💀)

[proud coral]

[scarlet ocean]

Interesting, okay I guess XD

[limber hull]

I don't think every carni and every herbi needs a rival

[scarlet ocean]

It’s odd not it, it’s so drilled in my head that every carni has a herbi counterpart, and every herbi had a carni counterpart

[limber hull]

Omnis, carnos and allos would all be interested in hunting tenos

Then we have barys and deinos, who would be near the waterways that teno likes

[scarlet ocean]

True

I wonder what’s gonna be barys strength, wether it’s a even weaker cera or more in between carno and cera

[sand lantern]

It's a cool thing for carnis

[scarlet ocean]

Bary is 100% pathetic in legacy, but Imma try to drop that legacy expectation 💀

[sand lantern]

Bary will soon cool

[scarlet ocean]

Yeah Bary is actually gonna be “good”, hopefully, Atleast better than legacy Bary, poor thing

[proud coral]

I imagine Bary's claws are gonna be quite nasty in terms of bleed. Probably a fair bit of damage, too.

Plus it seems agile in water.

[scarlet ocean]

Probably, I like it’s claws

[proud coral]

Like a weird jaguar lizard

[scarlet ocean]

Isn’t Bary lighter than cera 💀 I forgot , id need to look at that Dino imbur size chart again

[limber hull]

With cera, I honestly think it might have an utterly horrid matchup against teno. I know, people hate the concept, but think about it

Slow = can't approach fast enough before the teno has its tail/legs pointed at you
Defensive = lacks the required offensive power needed to take down the heavily brawler-style teno
Low damage, high hitrate = Good against some animals, and defending against pack, but with cera v teno, it will give teno more time to line up an attack
No stun capability yet known of = Teno is most susceptible to stuns, as seen with its matchups with carno and pachy, cera not having one is bad news
Lower weight = always within the stun threshhold, or even the knockdown threshhold for teno

A cera trying to hunt a teno would be a sad sight tbh, the cera really wouldn't be able to do much at all

[proud coral]

As long as it can just make a Teno coming to it a bit unwise due to nasty bite (bonus if bolstered) then I'm fine. I like defensive characters.

[scarlet ocean]

Yeah, those make sense, but I’m sort of one of those that kind of like teno v cera even though it makes no sense 💀✌️

[limber hull]

The matchup should be whoever decides to initiate gets screwed

[proud coral]

[limber hull]

Both are defensive, so both benefit from being attacked, not the attacker

[proud coral]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-reaching-out-angry-mad-growl-gif-16501327

[scarlet ocean]

Yeah I agree, but then I’m concerned, how will cera escape

It can’t outwalk it, but maybe outrun it? Dunno

[limber hull]

Well there is the problem. It's slow on land but fast on water

Who else is fast in water tho? Teno lol

[scarlet ocean]

💀

[proud coral]

Teno can only bite in water though and it's bite isn't really it's strongest attack 😛

[limber hull]

It might be a LITTLE faster than teno, maybe?

I honestly don't know

[proud coral]

Cera though might be able to turn easier and apply some nasty stank bite

[scarlet ocean]

I’m more curious how will cera deal with tenos existing, fight or run, whatever, but how live..

[proud coral]

And then 4 adult Deinos who grew off of their friend's corpse come and ruin it

[limber hull]

Even if cera is faster than teno, it doesn't really matter, because I doubt it'll be faster than omni

It's just going to get destroyed trying to hunt a teno

[scarlet ocean]

Yeah, no way 😅

[limber hull]

Because slow speed, larger hitbox, easier to stun and defensive kit

[scarlet ocean]

But how escape then

It would be insanely bad if it’s just fodder

[limber hull]

Probably be mildly faster lol

[scarlet ocean]

Like how if a pachy sees a carno, that carno is already dead. I don’t want the same for cera and teno

[limber hull]

All of teno's "good" attacks slow it down

[limber hull]

Also pachy kills teno way easier

[proud coral]

Perhaps if the Teno initiates, a Cerato can get the bolster-bite stance ready and depending on how strong that is, it bite help 😮

[scarlet ocean]

Or this, yeah

I just feel like the agility of cera will make it so it’s not bodied by teno

And a bad teno would die

I’ve seen some tenos miss kicks and slams from literal 2 teno lengths away 💀 and I was like “?? WHAT U WAVING AT”

Ig not really miss, but try to hit from miles away 💀

[proud coral]

We also gotta remember Cerato naturally takes less damage due to fat and gains temporary bleed resistance. So that might help as well.

[scarlet ocean]

Yeah

I feel like it won’t be so bad now,

[limber hull]

I don't think it's temp bleed resist

[scarlet ocean]

If cera is a tad bit faster ofc

[limber hull]

I think it just has bleed resist, like deino

[scarlet ocean]

I wonder, with how blood thirsty players are, would they still fight a cera even when it’s doing what it’s doing with that septic bite and body defense 💀 would the cera then lose

Cause most players couldn’t care about wether they die or not, just kill the other thing

[limber hull]

idk, maybe

[scarlet ocean]

That’d be sad

[limber hull]

i mean its not like we should make cera immortal

[scarlet ocean]

Ofc

[limber hull]

I reckon more than likely we're going to see bloodthirsty ceras get humbled fast

[proud coral]

"Not only does it have an innate stronger resistance to bleeds, but it has a temporary bleed reduction until sufficiently wounded. "

It's both

[limber hull]

i.e. trying to kill stegos and tenos

[scarlet ocean]

But i just wonder if cera is all bark no bite, defending its body, applying sickness to others, but if said others try to fight it, it runs and dies like a dog with its tail between its legs 💀 it’s like how small dogs square up on a shepherd, but as soon as the shepherd fights back, it cowers. I hope cera not that

[limber hull]

and then getting beaten to death

[proud coral]

I expect the same with Troodon

Tons of peeps trying to use it wrong, die, then complain that it's useless

[limber hull]

yea but ceras run with the mindset of "big = better" a lot of the time lol

we've also got people who still believe it's the carno killer

[scarlet ocean]

I mean, it’s been said already that cera is a carno counter, but probably not a carno killer

Since the 2 are the only 2 big land carnis

[limber hull]

i mean

i dont even know about carno counter lol

unless they fix the fact that carno's punch down ability is stupid

[scarlet ocean]

I swear it’s been said somewhere or in a stream already, there was once a phase where those news were the norm. Idk where to find it again 💀

[proud coral]

I remember Bryan stating it bodies Carno. Though I am skeptical on that since uh....well 1. not out yet, 2. he animates stuff, not really does balance testing (as far as I know)

[limber hull]

Also I think it bodying carno is mega lame personally but

[scarlet ocean]

Possibly this? Don’t fully remember

[faint folio]

Honestly I think fixing the charge hitbox and the charge footsteps would make carno a lot less stupid right now

[limber hull]

Also the knockdown range

[scarlet ocean]

Of course

[limber hull]

The knockdown range is one of it's biggest issues

[proud coral]

Might just be more so "if the Carno tries to mess with a Cerato's food, it's in for a world of pain". Not necessarily ALWAYS just kills Carno.

[scarlet ocean]

(Aka hitbox, what he said XD)

[proud coral]

Devs can be vague with stuff like that

[limber hull]

Not what he said because it's not the same thing and not what I'm talking about

[scarlet ocean]

I’d prefer than MUCH more than cera being fodder if carno tries to see if the cera means business💀

[faint folio]

I think they're saying the weight carno can apply knockdown to

[scarlet ocean]

Possibly

[limber hull]

The knockdown range is in reference to carno's ability to knockdown ANYTHING lower than itself in weight, even by a kilo

[faint folio]

Not the volume of space their attack hits

[scarlet ocean]

What is it then? Cause a charge knowing over something is almost always just a hitbox thing, if you don’t hit the target, no knockdown

[scarlet ocean]

Ah ok, so about weight, Srry then

[faint folio]

I mean it makes sense that things close in weight would just stagger but not knock over

[scarlet ocean]

Yeah, it would, but that’s complicated to implement 💀

[faint folio]

I don't know about that. It's just another weight threshold, no different from knockdown threshold

[icy lion]

As complicated as tweaking some numbers

It's not like the functionality is new

[scarlet ocean]

Bruh why hasn’t it been done earlier then

[icy lion]

Because it's a subjective balance decision and not a bug

[scarlet ocean]

Some of these balance changes seem so easy 🥲

[scarlet ocean]

Ah 🥲

I just think something clear like that without need so much planning and second thinking

Wouldn’t**

[faint folio]

Essentially an extra if statement in the hit calculations. If (hit), then if (weight > carno) stagger carno. If weight > 0.75 * carno, stagger enemy. Else, knockdown enemy

[scarlet ocean]

Balance patches happen so rarely as it is 🥲

[scarlet ocean]

Wouldn’t they then need to make an animation for stagger, since apparently stagger and stun are the same thing

[versed plover]

if you can transfer dinos over to different servers your gonna see random 50 adult stegos assemble the second you do something someone doesnt like
please no
or maybe your nesting and you kill a carno to defend it and suddenly the same person as an adult stego shows up, basically a bad idea

[faint folio]

I think that's a development philosophy issue tbh, as some teams seem to believe in only updating with new content and others seem to believe in many smaller patches

[faint folio]

They already make those animations for all dinos though. Currently the only thing that stagger/stuns an adult carno is ramming a larger animal like stego and being rammed by adult pachy

[scarlet ocean]

Yeah, probably 🥲 I just thought it’s a universal thing, that after an update drops, or Atleast once in between updates, there is a balance test and a balance patch if something is needed to change. Rather than us waiting 3+ months on average for 1 balance patch 🥲
Normally games handle balance issues asap so the gameplay can be more enjoyable till the next update, then quickly balance patch that, and move on to next update 💀

[scarlet ocean]

Oh ok

[faint folio]

But the animation could be reused for larger animal interactions too. Say that something like rex has a knockdown ability. It would play the carno knockdown animation

[scarlet ocean]

True, maybe, (but with that much of a specific example, a rex should be basically dead if it falls over.. 💀)

[faint folio]

Note: I'm not saying rex has knockdown, and I'm not saying it's a good idea. Just used our most popular murder lizard as an example

[icy lion]

Everything has animations for being staggered (aka stunned) and being knocked down

[scarlet ocean]

Probably shant will be able to body slam apexes

[icy lion]

Except deino now, I think

[faint folio]

If a rex crashes into a carno, I am betting the rex isn't the one getting knocked on its hindquarters

[icy lion]

Nvm I think it can still self-stagger

[faint folio]

Yeah deino staggers itself

[scarlet ocean]

Hearing this stuff brings pain, apologies 🥲 sometimes it seems like so much is done, and some balance is so easy to do, yet it’s not being done.

[icy lion]

Huh?

[scarlet ocean]

Yeah 😅

[faint folio]

Guessing it may not have knockdown though because it's... Already flat on the ground lol

[icy lion]

I really don't know what you mean. Those animations and functions are currently in game and have been for a long time

[scarlet ocean]

I thought you meant that there is a hidden unused stagger animation out there

[icy lion]

No, people use stun and stagger to refer to the same thing

[scarlet ocean]

Alright

[icy lion]

aka means also known as

[scarlet ocean]

I get it. But I feel like what I said still sort of stands, the general population assumesthat balance changes aren’t happening cause they’re difficult to do, but then hearing that it’s a simple number change, hurts a bit to hear 🥲✌️

[icy lion]

Simple to do is very different from wanted/needed

It'd be simple to double omniraptors weight, no one wants or needs that (well, some people do but we don't talk about them)

[scarlet ocean]

True that, it’s hard for y’all to tell wether peoples concerns are actually necessary 🥲

I just thought, some specific balance changes are a no brainer, I suppose not

[proud coral]

I feel balance changes would be easier to monitor with smaller, faster patches <:I I get they gotta let changes settle, but months and months is a wee bit much, ya know? We get stuck with stuff like the current state of the game, with Carnos and Pachys being gods.

[icy lion]

Everything will have a pushback, even if it feels like a no brainer

[faint folio]

Well, stun is the actual effect, stagger is the animation/severity. Knockdown is also a stun effect, but it is a different animation and higher severity

[faint folio]

I agree

[icy lion]

That's true, based on how you define it. Some people separate knockdown and stuns, others use stun as an umbrella category

[scarlet ocean]

I think there is a limit to how much pushback is actually relevant, I’d say, if 20% of the gamebase disagrees, and the other 80% agrees, that’s a no brainer and clearly those 20% aren’t “right” 🥲

Since most people have good takes, (I hope, I may be putting islecorders on too much of s podium)

[proud coral]

When you break it down, all of our current crowd control is just a stun. And it sucks....

Stagger? Input lock
Knockdown? Input lock on the ground
Lunged? Input lock outside of calls in a gator's mouth
Pinned? Input lock on the ground....with a raptor!

Why

[icy lion]

Except we'll never know those actual percentages, all we have is #balance-feedback which is often full of vitriol, overreactions, and misinformation. Not to say there aren't good ideas in there, of course, there's been plenty of posts I've agreed with

[proud coral]

Also gotta be careful with listening to the vocal majority. Because sometimes, even they can be wrong.

If you were to ask "do you want T.Rex in officials now?" a LOT of people would very, very likely say "yes" because Rex. A lot.

Very tricky

[scarlet ocean]

Oh yeah 🥲 don’t even mention it, I think most people agree that feedback channels are extremely intense and extreme.

[icy lion]

Eg. the dozens of posts about teno's "damage nerf" in update 6. Teno's damage didn't get touched

[faint folio]

Stun is by definition preventing player movement and/or input. I know the animation is different, but what knockdown's bottom line is in combat is the dino doesn't respond to player controls, just like stagger. Except knockdown has a longer duration

[proud coral]

Reminds me of the placebo patchnotes they would do

"Nerfed Giga's bite" (they did not)

later "OMG GIGA CAN'T WIN THIS FIGHT NOW WHY DID YOU NERF IT!?"

[scarlet ocean]

💀

[icy lion]

I know, but imo it's important to keep the distinction as they're the only 2 forms of "regular" CC we have

[scarlet ocean]

Wouldn’t that mean polls would be good? Or regular stress tester or QA balance testing good?

[icy lion]

QA does regular balance testing

I'd like for ST to get builds more often

[scarlet ocean]

Ah I see, that’s good to hear then, but… yet balance patches are still a very big rarity, even though y’all are working on it regularly 🥲

[icy lion]

Poll may help as it's more likely for someone to be willing to click a box than write up a post

[proud coral]

Stress testers can fill an entire server now, right?

[scarlet ocean]

Just gotta somehow make sure enough ppl see them and vote on them, but it’s also tricky, cause I feel like the ppl who want actually bad balance takes, outnumber the ones who don’t =(

[icy lion]

If enough are available at once yea

[proud coral]

[scarlet ocean]

Doesn’t even need to be a full server, I feel like 20-30 st’s could so easily break down balance testing and create small balance patches with the guidance and admin powers of QA. Or simply QA do it all, if there’s enough of em 🥲✌️

It’s just hard to understand

Since stuff is clearly being done, regularly, but no result

[icy lion]

There's plenty of results, you just disagree with them :p

Which is perfectly normal, u6 had some major changes

[scarlet ocean]

More so meant, regular results, like results Atleast 2 times a month when needed

[icy lion]

I imagine people are going to go through similar upheavals wrt cera and troodon in the future

[scarlet ocean]

For sure, yeah 💀

[scarlet ocean]

Could you name some? Unless there’s been some secret balancing going on, last one I think was more than 4 months ago. Hard to pinpoint the times

[icy lion]

Update 6

Unless you're specifically referring to mid-update patches

I don't keep track of those

[scarlet ocean]

Yeah, super long ago 🥲

[icy lion]

2 months?

[scarlet ocean]

It’s only been 2 months?

[icy lion]

December 23rd iirc

[scarlet ocean]

Time is officially going 1 mile an hr for me 💀 apologies then

[icy lion]

Then the devs had a holiday break

But even with that break its been busy in QA

Hypno let loose that we nabbed over 1000 bugs in the past 3 months

[scarlet ocean]

Brain thought it was 3 or 3+ 💀

[scarlet ocean]

Impressive, im glad works being done then

But I still think I agree with ppl that sometimes balance patches seem to take a while, or maybe they weren’t done good enough once they came out. (Since the latest balance patch made what carno and pachy is now 🥲)

[proud coral]

Speaking of, good friggn' job on that That sounds very tedious to do.

[scarlet ocean]

Makes sense that a balance patch comes with every update, but I definitely advocate for Atleast 1 more balance patch after the update has gone live, to properly nuke down everything

Since the st’s and qa won’t know how ppl will react to balance when it’s given to the larger audience. So imo it makes sense to do 1 before it goes live (the one that comes when it goes live), and 1 a short bit after live due to how the rest of the community reacts 🥲

**when it’s not yet given

[proud coral]

I support Anky sass

[scarlet ocean]

I read that as “Anky ass” 💀, but yes, me too

[proud coral]

[agile roost]

#general-feedback message
deino doesn't need to bask, it was so large it had a large body mass

[limber hull]

"it was so large it had a large body mass"

incredible

nature is truly outstanding

[tall hearth]

[scarlet ocean]

Ah yes, cause body mass keeps animals warm

[steel field]

[compact flare]

a creature with a large body mass had a large body mass?

this doesn’t add up

[severe idol]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-doggo-cute-math-formulas-gif-17580986

[scarlet ocean]

Why does this feel like bullying, wth Like 5 ppl clowning on that guy, I feel so bad 💀

[limber hull]

this is a shared moment of discovery

[scarlet ocean]

[left loom]

@safe hearth 5 dryos killing a single Utah is perfectly normal.

[safe hearth]

You missed the point. Im not talking about dryo damage.
And im not talking about: its easily for a Utah to kill 5 Dryos

[left loom]

Then why quote it in your feedback?

[safe hearth]

Read it again

[left loom]

Just did. The high Stam cost of pounce isn't what let you kill the Utah, your numbers did lol

Yeah, the Stam cost does need to be reduced, but using that event as a qualifier is just dumb

[safe hearth]

Like i said also there you miss the point😄

[left loom]

Point wasn't missed homie, you just used a dumb qualifier to your point.

Because of the high stamina cost of utah/omni; was we as dryos (3 adults and 2 juvi) able to kill a Utah/omni that was attacking us

[safe hearth]

31 people dont think so.

Cause they unterstand, what a Utah specific is and what it means, when its best attack is getting a bit "useless"
The result: utah wasnt a real danger (and those 5 dryos wasn't stick together the whole time)

[left loom]

I agree with you that the Stam cost is too high, but even if the Pounce cost 0 Stam that omni wouldn't have been able to take 5 dryos lmao

Don't want people thinking "Oh yeah, that omni lost because it's pounce was bad" no, it lost because it attacked a group way too big on its own

[safe hearth]

You can't read write? Lol

So please- make your dislike, waste no air and let it be

[left loom]

That's absolute gold when your grammar in that exact sentence is kindergarten tier.

If you can't take criticism without insulting others then your words are worthless. Bye.

[limber hull]

you guys realise that the stam cost hasnt changed when it comes to omnis pouncing dryo, right?

[left loom]

Yep, but it's current effect in game is too lackluster for its cost imho

[limber hull]

it quite literally makes the opponent bleed like crazy, that's pretty good

if they try to run, they'll bleed to death

[left loom]

Against a dryo for sure

[robust dome]

2 omnis are enough to kill a carno. It actually doesnt need a buff change my mind

[limber hull]

i wont. omni doesn't need a buff, carno and pachy are the game's biggest problems

oh and deino

[left loom]

I'm more thinking in the lines of things like carnos and steggos. Bucking changes made playing omni a lot more punishing unless you're very good, so I think a small pounce cost reduction may offset that a bit

[limber hull]

i forgot deino

[left loom]

I don't have a whole lot of hours on omni though, so I'm not the best judge admittedly

[limber hull]

pachy is INFINITELY worse than stego is right now, and stego provides a valuable service to the game by being the only thing standing between the land creatures and total deino domination

[left loom]

Big agree

But omnis should be able to hunt stego. I don't think it's really viable atm

[limber hull]

pachy, deino and carno NEED to be hit in the next balance patch. Dryo and hypsi need more love, omni and teno? They're chill

Also ptera is... fine. You really can't make it not S-Tier without removing the one thing that makes it unique, flight

[limber hull]

Ehh, there's the thing tho

It is KINDA on the devs for adding by far the LEAST favourable apex, besides anky, for omni to hunt

Stego is literally just designed at its core to be really ridiculously good at handling omnis

And making it not do that well kinda just makes it really weak

[left loom]

I can agree with all of that, compared to everything else omni is in a pretty balanced state.
Ptera is a bit unfun to play atm because everything currently playable is too big for it to hunt aside from juvies, but with troodon that may change.

[limber hull]

Ugh

Ptera hunting troodon

[left loom]

The only real risk to a stego currently is another stego. That's kinda meh

[limber hull]

Icky

[left loom]

You don't want to see ptera hunting troodons?

[limber hull]

Ptera hunting at all is icky, but that's what you get when you add this ridiculous shopping list diet system

I don't like ptera being treated like quetz lite, and i especially dont like the community pushing the devs to push it to that

[left loom]

I'd be fine with ptera being a scav but they haven't set it up to be one.

Ptera can't eat rotting bodies and you rarely if ever find a fresh one that isn't bait

And sustaining entirely off of fish is just... boring

[limber hull]

I really don't know what people expected lol. It's a flying fisher animal, that's what it was going to do

[left loom]

Maybe make those little birds.fly higher in the air and let us hunt those. THAT would be fun

[limber hull]

The best part of ptera is flying around and watching things happen

I like using ptera as my resident fight better

Fly around, find a fight, place bets on the winner with friends

[left loom]

Lmao

Maybe if there was some.more risk to fishing

Like beipi snatching you up?

[limber hull]

Which will likely happen since the devs said they fully intend beipis to do stuff like that

[left loom]

Good!

[limber hull]

Not because it eats ptera but because it can and it's an asshole

[left loom]

I want ptera to be more than it's own, separate game

I think they should make ptera able to eat rotting corpses maybe, make it a true scav

[limber hull]

Eh

Ptera has enough easy food as is

[left loom]

True

When quetz comes out ptera will cease to exist tbh

[robust dome]

But is stego op knowing it cant kill you if u just walk away?

[safe hearth]

Sorry if I disturb your good conversation for a moment.

That's exactly what happened - the Omni pounced 1 dryo (me).
let him be on me for maybe 3 seconds.
then the other dryos came.
then he pounced a second one.
and then he couldn't run anymore. I sent you the photo.

and I think he couldn't run anymore because he had no more stamina.
which is why I wrote the whole thing here.
and the bleed was not dangerous for me (I also ran after it).

[left loom]

I don't really think stego is "op" but I think it being safe from 99.99% of the roster is meh. Only thing a stego really has to worry about is another stego

[limber hull]

stego is not one of the strongest animals in the game, hell, it's not even in the top 3

people just treat it like that because they hate strong herbi

[left loom]

I got pounced by an omni once and my herd murdered it, afterwhich I bled out. The one that attacked you might not have been full grown.

[robust dome]

Hmmm imo its the strongest but the fact u can walk away just makes it easy to not die.
Although I agree that him being is safe almost all the time is bad, whent things like rex come out, it will die ons ight

[left loom]

True

[safe hearth]

He was an adult

[left loom]

Dunno what to tell you then, I bled out from a good Pin from an omni, and if he really double pounced and drained the entirety of his stamina, then he really has no one to blame for his death than himself.

Though being honest, deciding to attack a group of 5 dinos was the moment he died. There was no circumstance in which he would win that trade

[rare fractal]

Nothing should die on sight in this game to anything

[left loom]

I've died many times the instant I saw a deino

[safe hearth]

too xD

[rare fractal]

Don't make me go into deino rn....

[limber hull]

from strongest to weakest, i'd list it as

ptera (it's ptera, it is the only animal in the game with functional immortality. Also you can never nerf it in a way that matters, and it doesn't really NEED nerfs, it just is what it is)

deino (the only redeeming quality of this animal is that sometimes you won't have the misfortune of encountering it. In its sub stage, you will die for even being able to SMELL water, because it will run up, grab 7 of the 9 availible dinosaurs, and run back to water with insane stam and speed. In its sub, its a menace, and as an adult, it won't die if it doesn't want to due to insane bleed resist, the highest HP in the game and the ability to just nope into water)

pachy (this animal is just so horrible and does everything stego does but more painfully. It's faster to grow, faster to move and instantly wins against tenos. The sheer fact it's so favoured against carnos is also horrid, and puts it so high on the list)

carno (good direction, but the hitbox and the fact it can knock down tenos and takes ZERO stam to initiate a charge? Ew)

stego (strong but avoidable, and still more killable by omnis than everything I've mentioned prior. The fact it's this low is a sin)

omni (perfectly fine in balance, but guess what, everything else is just so much stronger it doesn't matter)

teno (literally the shining cornerstone of balance and it's TRASHED because it has the misfortune of having to live alongside carno and SPECIFICALLY pachy. Pachy will kill a teno for even selecting teno, you lose that fight, every time)

hypsi (it's hypsi. it's fine in balance, just kinda underwhelming, spit still is barely even a tool you can use and it still lacks its climbing ability)

dryo (done dirty. The new dodge is superior, and I like the speed change, but stam cost bad and it has no other niches to cover for its weaknesses. Make it nocturnal and reduce the stam cost in 6.5 pls)

that's my list

[left loom]

Homie going croc mode

I agree with list

[safe hearth]

yes i think a lot of people underestimate the dryos too. I just sent you a picture, you can see that not all of them were full grow. they even survived a bite.
even we underestimated the dryos lol.

[limber hull]

The fact that stego is 5/9 on this list

[left loom]

Please don't DM me 🙂

[limber hull]

That's literally so upsetting to me

[left loom]

Hopefully stego will see some love when it has animals able to threaten it

[urban flax]

That's totally wrong
This is the real balance state of the game
1.stego (op it can oneshot everything and is an unkillable god)
2.the rest (idc)
3.omni (it's become completely useless and dies to everything pls buff)

[limber hull]

sorry i forgor

💀

[left loom]

https://tenor.com/view/daeth-funi-periflight-dies-from-gif-22212023

[safe hearth]

yes the list is very good.
but wouldn't you put the carno in over the pachy?

i loved the moment the pachy came into play.
I have to say that in Update 6 I only had two fights as Pachy against a Carno.
The first was a nightmare: 12 pachys on Eu 3s against a carno in a mud wallow. 10 pachys died (that was really dumb lol)

and the second time we were 3 pachys against 1 carno. It took us 12 hits to kill him. Yes, his Bonebreak ability is awesome. but it doesn't exactly deal a lot of damage (but I can't say if the diet makes the difference there.)

It seems to me that Carno has to charge into you as pachy. 2-3 more bites = dead

[limber hull]

Not at all, I was very deliberate, pachy is the stronger of the two

Pachy has better matchups and less threats

The damage isn't what's important about pachy, it's the stuns

[safe hearth]

ok good 🙂 i can't realy say in UP 6

[limber hull]

The fact that pachy can stun and reset makes it the strongest of the two

[safe hearth]

totaly agree

[limber hull]

It can LITERALLY hold you still forever

It can do like 10 damage and it'll still win fights

[left loom]

Only stun when break bone. Easy fix they won't use.

Just like nocturnal dryo, devs won't actually do it

[urban flax]

Nah tiered stuns are better, albeit they require more work

[robust dome]

I think sole things should

Stegos will pay for their crime at some point

[urban flax]

Ah yes the "nerf something to the ground because at some point it was OP" mindset

By that mindset Omni is exactly in the state it deserves to be

And carno should have its bite removed next update

[left loom]

Charge*

[urban flax]

both

[limber hull]

i love revenge balancing

its totally a healthy way to keep a game going

punish things for being strong at some point

unless that animal is popular

[rare fractal]

Mmmm yes....I love spite balancing too

We should nerf omni down to dryo level cuz I don't like it

This is inarguable

[robust dome]

Indeed

But seriously tho stego has 0 way to survive rex unless it is in a big pack. Which makes sense

[limber hull]

its not good though

[safe hearth]

But Pachy doesn't have to win every fight. (If fight means- has killed his enemy).
(But of course you are right with your argument)
It wasn't designed for that either.

Kissenkitten often said we give you the tools to survive.
And survival doesn't always mean: 1vs1 A fight to the death.

I would reclassify the Pachy more along the lines of: Go away or I'll reclassify you.

But because we players sit behind this dinosaur on the PC, every fight has to end in death haha.
I've lost count of how many times I've read here on discord in the last year and a half: 1vs1
so much so that Kissenkitten complained about it 😛

[limber hull]

its actually a horrible situation that NEEDS addressing

[limber hull]

pachy doesn't NEED to win every fight, yet it does. That's the problem

Pachy players realised they can just kill, rather than break and run

And killing is more fun, and more permanent

So why run?

[rare fractal]

That's terrible

Why would we ever want stego's to require numbers to be viable

Actually why would we EVER want ANY animal to require numbers to be viable

Not even troodon is unviable without a pack

[robust dome]

Because its a herbivore. It lives in packs

[limber hull]

because stego is a HERD animal obviously, duh, silly fluff

oh my god i was being ironic and he said it for real

[robust dome]

Oh so omni doesnt need packs ig. Make it viable alone, double its bleeding and damage, that will be balanced

[rare fractal]

[rare fractal]

It is viable alone....

[limber hull]

it is viable alone

[robust dome]

no

[rare fractal]

Why not

[safe hearth]

I would say it depends more on the player.

we have a roleplay server.
For me as Pachy, that means in particular that I only keep him at a distance from me.
And if he runs away broken, I'll let him go.
In certain situations, nature is no different today.

[limber hull]

"being able to kill big things alone" is not the same as "surviving alone"

omni can survive alone. I've done it, plenty of times

It's not a particularly thrilling experience, but it's certainly possible

[rare fractal]

Nature isn't balanced well tbf...most of nature is entirely reliant on personality to preserve oneself...

[robust dome]

Then stego is viable ?

[rare fractal]

For example, something balanced like a honey badger would die immediately in this game

[limber hull]

I don't want my survival dependent on if the pachy decides to roleplay a peaceful animal

[limber hull]

Not if rex can kill it on sight, and stego can't do anything without a pack

That's not balanced

[robust dome]

If it needs to survive to be viable, chill in a forest, hidden and graze once in a while

[limber hull]

Omni can outspeed, outstam and/or outturn its predators

Stego, cannot

[rare fractal]

What if the rex goes in the forest...which it will likely spend most of it's time as a relatively slow and large predator

[robust dome]

"Apex"

[limber hull]

Who said apex

[robust dome]

Stego isnt apex

[limber hull]

no one said it was

[safe hearth]

it's not like that every time 😉
more situational. Yes, in the chat not everything comes across, like it means, as if you were talking to each other.

[limber hull]

who the hell are you talking to

[robust dome]

Me, rex is apex. Rex can kill what isnt apex.

[left loom]

Make pachy ram deal 0 damage if it doesn't break a bone?

[limber hull]

you see, whats funny is, most if not all of those animals can ESCAPE THE REX

if stego CAN'T, it's a fundamentally bad animal, and entirely unviable

name me a single other animal that doesn't have any options when faced with a rex

besides group up

just one animal from the roster

[robust dome]

A stego cant survive a pack of more than like 6 raptors. Doesnt mean its not viable

[rare fractal]

Does that at all matter?

[limber hull]

It can, and also, name me any other animal in that kind of situation

Who else, but stego, has zero options besides herd up against a rex?

[lucid mauve]

Anky prob have zero options to flee, but i doubt that gonna be free food : P

[robust dome]

So how would you do it ? Make stego faster than rex ? Make stego deal more damage at the risk of making stego absolutely op ? There is no wat around. It will die to a rex if its alone.

[limber hull]

Anky has an option, it can fracture the animal

Anky is viable

[lucid mauve]

Yea, true, i dont have answer to your question. I think most have options yes

[limber hull]

With its armour, it can resist the rex's attacks and deal more damage back

[limber hull]

Then make stego stronger. Make it an apex. Either it's that, or make it useless, then do what has to be done.

[rare fractal]

The broader point is that all animals have to...like that's how games work

[limber hull]

Stego is already very underweight in The Isle

It's literally 2 tons below real stegos

Those extra 2 tons would be pretty appreciated when trying to survive a rex

[robust dome]

So you would change the balance of the game and make stego super op to 99% of the roster do that it can survive Rex ?

[lucid mauve]

In the description of stego, it says you will see it in the open fields. Im guessing if you let a rex walk up to and dont see it, you might deserve to be taken out. If you are solo that is.

[rare fractal]

If rex is so demonstrably strong that that is necessary to keep stego viable...yes

Defensive animals get the balancing luxury of being incredibly strong by virtue of needing to fight everything

[limber hull]

No, I'd balance stego to be not dead to a rex. It's not going to be "super OP", just because it can survive a rex. It will have threats, obviously, but if those threats are instant death for it, no

[safe hearth]

the devs said: if
-> larger <-animals (like the Rex) come into play, the Stego gets one more attack: it kicks up with its tail.
to be able to hit their heads. ages ago they showed an animation of what that could look like.

[limber hull]

That doesn't save it

It's nice, sure

But it doesn't save stego

[rare fractal]

Well basically all that does is make it easier to land headshots

[urban flax]

Unless this attack also has CC
Imagine stegos launching omnis 20 meters high into the sky with that attack

Or staggering a rex when hitting the head

[limber hull]

Now THAT would be fun lol

Actually? I'm not against that

Since its hitbox would be REALLY hard to land

[robust dome]

So hypsi is slower than an omni and cant really out maneuvre one. It cant fight back efficiently. Should we make hypsi stronger ? Or maybe you deserve to die to someone who put hours in the growth more than you idk

[limber hull]

Against most smaller predators

[rare fractal]

Hence why hypsi is getting climbing

[robust dome]

Then it dies to herrera

[limber hull]

Hypsi is getting climbing and several other buffs

[rare fractal]

Why, just escape the herrera

[safe hearth]

you're right
i only mentioned it because it at least gives you the opportunity not to feel completely helpless later. a tiny peace of hope 😄
iam on your side 😄

[limber hull]

lmao it's not hard to escape herrera

[lucid mauve]

thats mix packing : P

[robust dome]

How ? Maybe herrera will be faster. Which would make sense

[limber hull]

(they should add a feature that hypsi spit causes herrera to fall)

would be hysterical

It wouldn't die, because of its crazy good fall damage resistance, but it'd certainly lose momentum

[safe hearth]

would love it haha

[rare fractal]

Do you genuinely believe that a hypsi will have 0 options when faced with a herrera? Like unironically?

[lucid mauve]

Everyone will be viable, it comes down to the person playing. You need to know pros/cons of other dinos and what you are playing.

[limber hull]

besides stego, apparently

[robust dome]

What will it do ?

[rare fractal]

You're not joking rn?

[urban flax]

eat grass and die

[rare fractal]

It'll get balanced to escape it if necessary

[lucid mauve]

lol yea

[rare fractal]

That's how games work

[limber hull]

In fact, we already HAVE an example of how the stego v rex matchup would go, with pachy and teno. Teno can't do ANYTHING to stop pachy except get lucky. Imagine that with a 5 hour grow animal

[robust dome]

Said who ?

[rare fractal]

The existence of it being within a game, where animals are intended to be viable

Hence why balance changes all the time

[limber hull]

Pachy and teno is our case study as to WHY every animal needs to be viable in all matchups on its own

Because otherwise, NO ONE will ever play that animal because it's fruitless

You WILL die to your "counter", you can't stop it

[urban flax]

You don't understand, Teno is viable in herds it's a herbivore

[robust dome]

Why would someone who put 0 hours into the game survive someone who put at least like an hour ?

[rare fractal]

No you don't seem to understand, stego is a tank buster class hero, rex is a tank BUSTER class DPS hero...it makes sense

[limber hull]

And by viable, I don't mean "can kill" but rather "can escape, can hide, can out-manoeuvre, can out-stam, can out-swim, or can do ANYTHING"

[rare fractal]

Why does it matter how long you've spent growing that animal....

Why would you ever play a smaller animal when it's designed to be fodder

Why would you ever play something that is strictly food

I feel like hypsi's "playerbase" answers that question

There isn't one

[limber hull]

i feel teno's current playerbase is also a very good indication of how people feel about animals with hard counters

once one of the most popular herbis, now never touched because people just don't want to die without a chance

teno is SO rare now

[rare fractal]

Like I'm just at a point of waiting for the next update cuz everything I find enjoyable can't be played rn :p

[safe hearth]

totaly agree

[limber hull]

and i get it, some people might say "good riddance, i hate stego, it was big and mean to me" when they hear rex killing stego without a chance, but you'll NEVER see the animal again if this happens

[lucid mauve]

Thats like me complaining rex is bad, cus i cant catch anything. And die from starvation.

[robust dome]

Bcs its a videogame. Someone who put more effort in should be rewarded.

[limber hull]

this entire animal, as hated as it is, is also a genuinely cool and majestic thing to see walk around, and it'll be gone forever. And that'll be a real damn shame

[rare fractal]

With the complete dominance of everything smaller than them? They're rewarded with size not success

[rare fractal]

I really don't understand how those people exist...

[robust dome]

Also i still dont see why forcing stegos to pack with more stegos/other herbis in order to sruvive rex be bad

[rare fractal]

Like congrats you sat in a bush for 5 hours...you know control the lives of everyone on the server

[limber hull]

and WHATEVER thing stego added to the niche, it'd also e gone

[rare fractal]

If you thought stego is overpowered alone, imagine how busted it would be when stego is quite literally required to be played in groups...rex will be the only thing that ever kills one

[robust dome]

Ever heard of hunting ? To you know... survive ?

[limber hull]

name a single other animal that needs to pack together to SURVIVE an attack. Not to pack together to kill something, or pack together to fight, like omni or troodon. What other animal needs to pack to simply survive?

[lucid mauve]

But if you can run from the rex, you can survive it. If you pack up , you can prob stand your ground.

[limber hull]

Stego isn't running from rex lmao

[rare fractal]

If the rationale is that simplistic....simply looking at a smaller animal than yourself should cause them to die so you can eat

[limber hull]

That's simply not happening without completely making it ridiculous

[robust dome]

Yes so my point stands. You have a chance. Seize it.

[rare fractal]

And again, why play food

[lucid mauve]

Im shocked over how fast the speed of stego is, in running that is . Not walk

[limber hull]

And rex is faster

[rare fractal]

I don't feel like cosplaying as a chicken sandwich so I can play stego

[limber hull]

We know for a FACT rex is faster

[lucid mauve]

It might be , but prob much lower stam

[limber hull]

So stego is dead

[rare fractal]

It definitively is, like rex is quite fast for its size

[limber hull]

Stego has one minute of stam. Unless rex is running out of huff in 15 seconds, probably not going to be significant

Also rex's TROT SPEED is almost as fast as a stego sprint

[rare fractal]

So unless you spot it from a few hundred meters off you die

[limber hull]

So good luck with that "escaping rex" thing

[rare fractal]

Oh yeah almost forgot about rex trot

[limber hull]

But hey, maybe you'll find a herd of 2 or more people that also wanted to play rex food

And you might even be able to scare the rex!

Although idk why, considering you picked "rex food" when you logged in

You could just fulfil your purpose and run to the rex

[rare fractal]

Like that's another thing, what are you supposed to do until you find other members of your already very rare species

[lucid mauve]

I gotta disagree with you all here, no way rex catches a stego thats out in the open and sees it coming

In dense areas, sure

[rare fractal]

Why not, what are you basing this claim on

[limber hull]

It does, because we've seen it move

[rare fractal]

Because we know objectively that rex is faster

[limber hull]

It can easily do it

Or maybe you can cower behind a far superior herbivore, like a trike to survive a rex

I'm just spitballing here

[rare fractal]

Or you can just play trike

[lucid mauve]

I dont see rex in the game yet, so i dont know. You might be correct but i dont think so : P

[limber hull]

Oh yea! I don't have to play the weak rex food!

[limber hull]

Dondi streamed it and made EXTRA sure to show off rex's trot speed

[rare fractal]

We saw it on stream in game

[limber hull]

Remarking about how fast it was and how you "aren't outrunning it"

[lucid mauve]

Tror all good, but for me its gonna be like sucho in legacy vs a giga

You ran and hoped for the best,

[limber hull]

It outtrot a human sprint

For reference, a human sprint is almost as fast as a stego sprint

[rare fractal]

That'd be so incredibly lame

[limber hull]

So uh, yea, rex wins

[lucid mauve]

Thats true, thats why i hated playing sucho

[limber hull]

Oh of course, we balance like sucho, an animal so bad they had to make special rules just for it to stop apexes from making them into mincemeat!

[rare fractal]

Which is exactly why that dynamic shouldn't be replicated

[limber hull]

Literally, sucho got rules in basically every server to protect the poor thing from apexes

With the whole "water = safe" thing

[lucid mauve]

lol i killed so many rexes because of that

cus they just walked past you, like idiots.

[limber hull]

Honestly, legacy sucho vs rex probably is more viable for sucho than this hypothetical EVRIMA stego vs rex thing

I have faith in the devs to do the right thing and not make stego fodder, but the fact that people echo this desire for stego to just... Die off entirely is concerning

but then again they did also say deino autoloses to spino so

[lucid mauve]

Yea, i dont think stego gonna be any fodder to rex. Its gonna have options, if it cant run from it. The rex either needs to ambush to it can attack the head. Im fine with autoloose, if they have options to flee etc. Deino prob autoloose, since grab is useless against bigger guys neways. Its still an amazing ability, but not against the bigger guys.

[zinc meadow]

I'm fighting for Stego survival, thoughts are going below in what's likely going to be quite a wall of text. (Gonna make it elsewhere atm)

[barren crater]

... Did another Stego fodder take happen

[zinc meadow]

Yup

[barren crater]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/855527844670865438/1079974894600728656/896462598785089606.gif

[limber hull]

Yea because revenge balancing is a concept people will not let die

[zinc meadow]

I have concocted a response.
(It is very long)

The whole picture doesn't appear to be seen with the Steg v Rex deal.
If the game is intended to be molded by the players, that would show the balance of the game firsthand. Example being Teno disappearing due to Pachy dominance.
That's a situation where the Teno can't do anything to defend itself, run, fight etc.
People don't play it as it's cut down on viability.
Pachy simply is better in every way currently (Mostly due to stun meta) and can choose how long you live with no lasting effects.

As of this point with the information we have seen on Rex, the Stego cannot easily run away without the Rex just keeping up afterwards.
Ok, can it stand and fight?
Probably, but doing so is a much higher chance of death. (Obviously, you're in front of a massive hydraulic press on legs)
So we've thought of the Stego's approach to the situation, Get the headstart without being seen and you can avoid it. If it's too late for that, best hold onto your stam for the fight.

I haven't seen it from the Rex standpoint however.
You've grown your massive animal, just as the Stego has, and would like it as your next meal.
Two options as of now.
1: Stego runs.
You know that if you keep a close eye, even if it gets a headstart you can still follow it, unless eyesight/scent trail is lost.
2: Stego stands its ground(Inevitable with these circumstances)
How do you face off against it?
Even if the Stego weighs less in Isle standards, the thagomizer is still a deadly weapon, and you don't suppose the Stego is going to sit there and accept fate just because "Rex faster, therefore I can't run."
Variables for these fights look awfully transparent to me.
Rex needs to kill with damage.
Stego needs to defend with bleed.
We don't know Rex's bleed resistance, but for this instance let's say it's comparable to a Carno's.
By pitting your Rex against the Stego, you are willing to throw down your life for a large meal.

Now Rex doesn't have the benefit of stuns as far as we know, meaning that Stego is still capable of attacking perfectly fine.
Rex needs to get enough worthwhile hits in to dispatch a Stego without taking many hits in return. Which leads me to this next question.
How do you partake in the Stego if you end up doomed halfway through the fight due to bleed? Let me explain.
Obviously through player skill and knowledge, a Rex could very feasibly take on a Stego with little to no damage, but that's straying into player variables, not the animals themselves.
Let's say the Rex and Stego are engaged for a while, with the Rex getting a few good crushing bites on the Stego, and Stego has gotten a good few body shots into the Rex as well.
Question 1: is Rex a bleeder?
Answer: No, it relies moreso on landing raw damage rather than bleed.
Question 2: is Stego a bleeder?
Answer: Yes, by bleeding its assailant it can deter further attacks.

What I'm getting to is this.
As any animal, death is the last thing you want to happen.
Rex is being put into an "unviable" position attacking a Stego, as is the Stego vs a Rex.
If halfway through an engagement you find yourself at half blood pool and draining faster than you can heal in time thanks to the business end of a Stego, death is no longer avoidable but inevitable, hence making your dwindling existence unviable.
It does not matter that you may be at a damage advantage and kill the Stego, if you yourself don't escape death afterwards.
It approaches the Magy's "my defense is being nasty to eat after I die" but is more reasonable.
Why? Because its deterrent is that you will die after your fight, regardless if you win.
A player deciding not to fight a Stego as a Rex doesn't put your life and "viability" at risk, because you can walk and find something else to eat with how fast you move.
Choosing to fight is putting yourself in the danger zone of bleeding out, and making the fight "unviable" towards the Rex.

[zinc meadow]

"Rex faster, therefore I can't run."
A sentence I mentioned earlier in text, running is less the action in this instance, moreso escaping a dangerous engagement.
Moving bleeds you faster. Not an issue for the Stego, but a major issue for the Rex who is advantageous in an extended pursuit.
If it doesn't want to bleed out, the Rex can't chase after engagement without being put at an extremely low blood total or dying outright.
If Stego never manages to land a blow, yes, it will die. Makes sense to most people.
But Stego is not unviable because it can't solely run or fight.
To survive a Rex, you have to do both of these actions.
A standoff, getting hits in, possibly taking some, and then leaving the area.
This sounds viable, albiet difficult.
But it SHOULD be difficult facing an apex plains predator on its terms, hence why you need to make those terms yours.
These engagements may or might not be enjoyable to any specific player, but they're always survivable if you know what you should be doing. (except for Deino lunge, stoopid croc grumble grumble)

Apologies for the wall, I'm very passionate about the art of survival thoughts

[limber hull]

Defending with bleed is INHERENTLY a juxtaposition. Bleed is slow, painful death, perfect for hunters, poor for self-defence. By merit of rex having better damage and health, the engagement is already decided, it's rex favoured. The stego would merely put rex at risk AFTER it's already dead.

[rare fractal]

It's sorta like the magy foul meat defense, which is why it's being made capable outside of that because it's been recognized that basically doesn't do anything for it

[limber hull]

Rex DOES have the benefit of stuns, with a beefy staggering headswings that exist to stagger those of a similar size, it can stagger a stego with ease, since it's seen staggering bigger targets with the said swing.

Rex also has more health, meaning it doesn't really need to worry much at all about taking the hits, its biting, the stego is sluggishly swinging, if the rex damage per-bite is high, rex will inevitably too be strong enough to do more of stego's health per second than stego can do to rex's health

Stego is also NOT a bleeder. It's as much a bleeder as rex, carno, teno and deino are. Stego's bleed is proportional to damage, and seeing how rex's total health is high, a stego's bleed won't be nearly significant enough to dissuade an attack.

Rex is not unviable, it has every advantage in the engagement, it's faster, kills faster, survives more and could even have a higher DPS to put icing on the already very bad cake for stego.

If all that stego can do is make rex regret the fight AFTER the stego is dead, the stego has failed, because it had to die to make it happen

[limber hull]

here it is, staggering a giga, an animal MUCH larger than stego. It has stuns, and it will obviously use them in the matchup for an advantage

Even in the devlog: "In addition to that, we thought it might be time for an additional attack to help it single out targets; a side-striking head swing to stagger or even knock over prey and bust open bothersome gates"

[barren crater]

Rex with knockdowns

[limber hull]

That's how it be