general-feedback-discussion

[cyan flame]

Because it certainly sounds like he would be running out of blood quite quickly like that

[valid carbon]

first two pounces were tap pounces, then he chased me everywhere I kept evading and last pounce killed him because he finally stammed out.

I'll record a video for you next time, was 3v1 carnos at night which I killed no one but got away even with them tracking my bleed, bleeding honestly feels way to weak sauce in evirma compared to legacy.

Want to say the three carnos got me down to 25% hp, and I ran away till I hit forest then they chased me from south spawn to about center spawn before I lost them, never died from bleed.

[cyan flame]

Well, considering legacy bleed had all kinds of issues, that's probably a good thing. And sure, I'd need to see, because unless something changed, pounce has the highest bleed level of any attack in the game, and is perfectly lethal. If he kept running around after you, I'm pretty sure he did bleed out, that can happen even as you're attacking far as I know.

[valid carbon]

Hey dino! We were carnos together , sorry you got tagged teamed.

[cyan flame]

Also those carnos must not have gotten any good hits on you then, because carno bite does add a bit of bleed, especially on smaller things.

[valid carbon]

They got two bites on me, I was fresh adult they were full adult

[lapis swallow]

Because bleed is a tracking tool to playables that dont spec into it

[valid carbon]

Spec into it?

[lapis swallow]

Specialises

Like omni with its pounce

[valid carbon]

Is that a diet option or something?

[lapis swallow]

No

Omniraptor pounce does way more bleed than actual damage

Its built around bleeding prey out rather than killing them with raw damage

[valid carbon]

Anyways, had a fight today where I kept tracking down a stego and kept him standing after like tap pouncing him like 5 times, never bleed out.

Got a few head bites also avoiding his swipe

[cyan flame]

Doesn't mean they got body hits, could have been tail or so, less damage and bleed then.

Most like were if you still had health and you weren't even grown

[cyan flame]

Well... stego also has a whole lot of blood. I'd be concerned if you could bleed one out on your own and not with at least two thirds of a pack behind you. At least it wasn't a deino, then you'd have no chance of bleeding it :p

[valid carbon]

I hear excuses, I got pounced by a full grown raptor as a young adult carno, did 68% damage to me and very low bleed.. I ran away and lost him as I just kept running until I felt safe maybe loss about 20% blood total and was still at 80% bleed and he landed a long pounce since his weight was similar to mine I could not pounce him

I never had to stop to rest, bleed healed while running.

Want to say my weight was about 600 as that carno and raptors are 450 max.

Just saying, I played during 6.0 and pounce was pure damage took 5-6 pounces to down a full grown stego, none of which did we keep it standing to bleed it out.

[cyan flame]

During current patch?

[valid carbon]

My skill level is pretty high, I win most of my 1v1's and hunt young/fresh adult carnos for sport as they pose a challenge.. I pick on adult carnos because I just don't have the stamina to toy with them for prolonged periods of time and live.

You can't really pounce a stego now, weight and bucking is absurdly racist.

[cyan flame]

I mean, if you say so. But unless pounce has changed, it does relatively little damage but all the more bleed. But a full pounce does almost an omnis worth of damage from what I know, though the bleed would still be higher and the more likely killer unless the target just sits there and is left alone or so.

[cyan flame]

What? The weight change was to prevent smaller omnis from being able to be "abused", and the bucking certainly needed improvements, at least now it's useful. But none of that prevents adult omnis from pouncing stegos, or anything else for that matter.

[cyan flame]

Well, you're not exactly meant to go 1v1 with grown carnos, so that makes sense.

[valid carbon]

Out of at least 14 young adult carno kills this morning It end in raw damage and not bleed, which I don't mind its fun to have a challenge.. I just don't see people packing omni because they aren't fun and the food chain is limited with smaller pc's players

[cyan flame]

Well you claim that, but I don't know if there's a way to be sure what they died of.

[valid carbon]

I would love for bleed to have more of a effect to be honest, I main dilos on legacy and enjoy rex kills it's like 21 bites to bleed a rex.

[cyan flame]

Ah yes, legacy bleed is quite terrible, and things like what you just described is not something I think most want.

[tall hearth]

12 bites on dilo, 27 on utah.

[cyan flame]

Also you keep saying bleed has no effect, but it does. It is quite lethal, even if you don't seem to believe it.

[valid carbon]

Well yeah once the blood drop hits zero you die, regardless of health

[cyan flame]

So unless there's some bugs, or some change that hasn't been noticed by anyone else, pounce still does the highest bleed out of any attack, and you're generally more likely to kill something with bleed than raw damage, at least for the bigger targets.

[cyan flame]

Yes, which is why I'm not sure if you killed via damage or bleed, since well, if the target ran out of blood when you were attacking it, it'd still just drop.

So you might think it was damage when it wasn't, though it could be, if they somehow changed the pounce. But since I haven't heard anything of that, I don't see a reason to think it now does damage again instead of bleed.

[valid carbon]

I agree but it just never happens, if I noticed my blood getting low the common response is to panic and I haven't once seen anyone just drop infront of me from blood loss.

I'm not expecting legacy results but I've circled someone for 30-40 odd minutes and kept pouncing them when able, applying tap pounces and a decent pounce that took stamina down and nothing

[cyan flame]

Maybe you just keep going back in and not letting them bleed out on their own. I honestly don't know, but I can assure you that before this patch at least, bleed was the main thing the pounce did, it has a 3% multiplier unlike every other attack that only has 1%, or so it's been said.

You could always just go test things on scope I suppose, see how it goes.

[valid carbon]

I've experimented with letting things bite or pounce me then running until I bleed out, most times I heal bleed with like 20-40% bleed damage. Hence the carno attempt

[cyan flame]

Well yes, I don't think most larger things die even to one full pounce, unless they're low on food and water/stamina as well. But I do know a pachy just about survives a full pounce at 5% bleed if it doesnt move at all (with full food/water), and has about 10% or so health left at that.

So pounce does both lethal bleed, and quite some damage for what it is. So not sure how your fights have gone, because it seems odd to me at least.

[valid carbon]

Yeah I want to say the damage is waaaay more than the bleed, I guess I just see pounce being more viable for tracking and killing if it was more bleed based.

Sorry was killing a pachy 🙂

[remote dock]

I am so sick of getting glitched into areas

and not being able to get out

[sage yew]

@fair abyss instead of a "unstuck button", which would just be a band aid on a much bigger problem, I'd suggest to streamline the bug report process.

Currently it's just tedious and you don't know if anyone will look at your report in time and not everyone is using discord.

Something like "Admin Request" Button, where you can roughly explain your problem and the next time you log in, you'll be set to a position where you are unstuck. Maybe leave your eMail address for notification or something.

This way, the cause of the problem, could be directly inspected and also a lot of potentially relevant data could be send with it. Like I don't want to wait to start up the game, just to see at which version I play on. The current one? I guess?

Currently you have to answer 6 specific mandatory aspects of your problem, asked to provide evidence and leave your discord ID behind. While people simply just want to get unstuck.

"Admin Request"

• I'm stuck
• Hacker
• other stuff

multiple choice could work as well (maybe a bit more refined).
As an "unstuck button" could be abused to maybe glitch on places where you are not supposed to be, like inside a rock, or a sort of escape mechanism.

[sage yew]

@barren zephyr Just so you understand the down-votes, even tho your request is understandable.

The first problem with legacy dinos seems to be that they are not up to date to Evrima. That's probably a minor problem, but simply porting it, wouldn't cut it.

The main problem is, that balancing is already with just 9 dinos all over the place and that's nothing that you can fix that easy, by adjusting some numbers, because there are some major aspects of the game that needs to be implemented, or fixed in general, before any balancing can be done.

Including more dinos into the mix, would just throw the current "playability" completely over board.

I might be wrong with some aspects of this, but that's what I understood after reading some discussions. So take it with a grain of salt.

[proven river]

[tawdry oyster]

Pretty sure that was the point, they’re trying to make bigger dinos more challenging against smaller dinos because of how easy they were to kill in legacy

[tawdry oyster]

@topaz pendant Those are some pretty good suggestions but I think it’s gonna be irrelevant since we’re gonna get Gateway

[lapis tree]

So is Spiro being dumped in favour of Gateway?

[lapis swallow]

Atleast in the official servers

[tawdry oyster]

Pretty sure it is

[proven river]

@ashen meadow dibble also has a concept art

[ashen meadow]

i just saw it now

[lapis tree]

Good, spiro is a dumpster fire of a map

[tawdry oyster]

Ikr

[bitter timber]

Why are people against adding more dinos into the game

Rly dont get it

[dire ridge]

Priority, core mechanics and stabilty is better than dropping dino clone just to have big numbers.
The game with only 9 dino still has big issue, balancing wise, performance wise and bug wise

[uneven mist]

It you are talking about this #general-feedback message

We aren’t against adding Dino’s but against putting done Dino’s from legacy to evrima

[limber hull]

boy cant wait to play legacy rex against evrima stego lol

[urban flax]

Can't wait to see the Specialsaurus in-game

[uneven mist]

Snipe them from across the map

[sand tiger]

I think balancing the current roster is extremly difficult tho. The carno is supposed to hardcounter smaller dinos and a majority of the roster is small. Adding a counter to carno would fix alot of the issues we currently have balance wise while not stepping on the toes of the other playables.

[sage yew]

#general-feedback-discussion message

[tall hearth]

People aren't against adding new dinos. They're just against adding new dinos that were rushed through production with no unique mechanics and, in a sense, would be as boring as their legacy counterparts.

The devs plan on adding smaller dinos first too, so when people request these apex dinos like rex or spino it's just not gonna work for the planned small playable ecosystem their aiming for early on. We'll get the big boys later, but the small dinos and mechanics should come first when they're finished

[tawdry oyster]

To prioritize performance of the game, and rendering etc. It’s better to enjoy a smooth good looking game with a few dinos instead of a game with low frames and bad rendering

[gritty lance]

Tf? People actually are? No wonder they are the only ones sticking around lmao

[tawdry oyster]

They’re not

[gritty lance]

Lol ok good

Cuz yeah that’s imo (outside of horrific lack of optimization) the main thing keeping the isle from growing more

Every time I ask a friend to play/get it they don’t wanna due to the lack of Dino’s ;-;

Saying it’s “boring” so rip

[lucid mauve]

Well yea, but if you add them now. And your friends say, what the hell is this. Instead of "darn, nice" : ) What would be best in the long run : P

[faint folio]

Hmm but the tricky thing is making a hard counter that doesn't invalidate the existence of a playable entirely. Right now, carno is so OP against everything smaller than it. It's faster, largely just as maneuverable, usually does more damage, and has an absolutely gigantic charge hitbox, which also does knockdown and stuns while dealing a ton of damage. And it's silent... So you can't outrun it, outmaneuver it, outfight it, or avoid it... If it sees you and there isn't a rock nearby to climb, you're dead

And the issue scales. If there's a hard counter to carno, it is tricky to have that dino also be weak to smalls if it can kill carno as it is right now. And so on and so forth, resulting in the only playable worth playing being apexes

Ideally, every playable should be viable... Maybe it requires more skill to fight, or tight tolerances to outmaneuver. Maybe you can't fight, but you may be able to run and fight other prey.

[cyan flame]

To be fair, a few of the issues you listed are more bugs or similar, than balance decisions. And in part an issue due to map being bad.

[faint folio]

True, on both counts

Though, even if they are unintended, the fact that the bugs likely won't be patched until 6.5 is just... A miserable prospect

Honestly if they fix the charge hitbox I think it would make a huge difference

[cyan flame]

Depends on how the balance test goes I'd say. Though I guess it's possible we might keep things to 6.5, but in that case people will adapt. It's hardly the worst situation ever as it stands.

But yes, the charge hitbox needs fixing. The CC needs an oversight on both carno and pachy. The sounds, seem to be odd all around to be honest.

Everything feels quiet and dead.

[faint folio]

Yeah

Honestly I like the quieter walk/trots... Not many animals stomp at a walk (even elephants are really quiet), and although trot could be made a bit louder I didn't like how it felt like every step you took you were stomping your foot into the ground with your whole weight

But the runs are just... Weird

Because running often DOES throw your full weight onto a single foot, and running is pretty universally noisy

[lapis swallow]

I just feel like i am playing on a server with very few players

[faint folio]

Yeah exactly

[cyan flame]

Same. Much as I agree with Ice here that it's nice to not have stego or carno spam broadcast, now I can't even hear another stego on my side of the plains unless they're almost in viewing distance anyway :p

[faint folio]

And I hardly hear calls anymore. When I do, it's practically on top of me, which defeats the purpose. And stego and carno are still by far the loudest sounds in the game. Not ear bursting at close range anymore, but it seems they scaled everything down equally instead of just toning down the specific calls people complained about

[burnt bone]

Pachy (especially juvie) had their volume reduced at least

[true haven]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I3HoR5XElE
talking about physics based animation, what if they could finally make every animation come to life, imagine pouncing will adapt to dinosaurs size rather than floating when the dinos is too small to be pounced

[sand tiger]

i think the carno besides a few buggy things is in a fine state the issue is he dominates the current roster. when the roster is more fleshed out the carno won't be spammed as much and thus the smaller dinos will have an easier time surviving. the game works like any ecosystem really and if you have an overpopulation of the top predator the ecosystem will collapse. If we have a few more playable mid tiers which seem to be the bread and butter of what people prefer this problem will resolve itself as the carno shouldn't be able to dominate the way it can right now.

[true haven]

basically fix its hitbox and charge spam, and we're good

[limber hull]

(and the fact it can knockdown teno sized animals)

[proud coral]

So it can knock down Tenos?

Hnnng

[sand tiger]

playing teno does feel kinda meh with the carno changes i think the teno should get a lil bit of a buff to match it or something. something is needed for the teno.

[limber hull]

always has been able to

[proud coral]

[limber hull]

difference now is that the charge isn't a skillshot which requires you to line it up

it's now an actual pursuit move

(a change I personally prefer for an animal that's supposed to hunt small game, the fact that it had a move that couldn't hit a bus if it moved out of the way kinda defeated the point)

issue is, it's now TOO good against tenos

[limber hull]

what?

[proud coral]

📣

[limber hull]

but yea, i think carno should have three nerfs (or two nerfs and one fix) to its charge

• Reduce hitbox to actually match the model size
• Give a 5% startup stam cost to charge to prevent spammability
• Make it that carno can only knockdown animals 50% its size, but it can still stagger animals up to its own size

[proud coral]

I like it :3

[sage yew]

sorry, just came a bit too late to this "more dinos, because it's too boring" talk 👍

[proud coral]

[true haven]

more larger size dino that can be seen from afar, smaller dino won't make it feel "populated"

but next update is little troodon 🙂

[sage yew]

would love to see it trip if hits one of those tree trunks on accident.
2 nerfs, 1 fix, 1 implementation ;)

[limber hull]

i dont think that's necessary

also that's just a bit too far imho

that's outright unfun tbh

[tall hearth]

like the random tripping in super smash bros brawl on the wii. what an awful mechanic that was lol

[true haven]

unless its implementation is like RDR 2 Horse, i will be a satisfying trip 😆

[sage yew]

I count it to environment interactions and to pay attention should be rewarded
yea, just looked RDR2 up, not like this

charging into something at knee caps height would slam you right into the ground

[proud coral]

If only we could get ragdoll physics like that 😛

[true haven]

well it needs to have a sophisticated physic engine, i don't want to have the effect of slamming trees only in 1 animation sequence or possible 2 for variation

[true haven]

exactly

only feels great when the foundational is great

[sage yew]

when you made that escape over it, it should be satisfying to watch the carno, like really

[true haven]

currently everything relies on animation things like, pouncing, knocking, falling, which just take away all the fun

[sage yew]

true

[true haven]

we can only hope, after all this is indie game

[proud coral]

The bone models are all the same right now, eventually they'll get expanded and made unique per species I think

[gentle flint]

@vocal pumice They’ve mentioned it before but they do plan on coming out with more distinguished skeletons later, the ones that are there now are just the basic ones so they could get the gore update out ^^

[faint folio]

Eh, but in most ecosystems carnivores usually have a 15-30% hunt success rate. No real predator "dominates" their prey so effortlessly. Sure, prey normally can't kill the predator (with notable exceptions), but typically the prey has a chance to escape in some manner. And again, the danger with making multiple dinos with the "dominates things smaller than X size" mindset is this: if carno dominates small dinos, and then there is a predator that dominates carno... 1) what prevents the predator of carno from also dominating small dinos? Resulting in a landscape where small animals just exist to die or be eaten by larger animals? Not a very fun game loop, dying repeatedly to everything. And 2) what dominates the apex of apexes? Nothing should be invincible to anything other than another of its species. Sure, canni is a thing, but more interesting I think is more of a nuanced combat triangle structure where carno might kill X really well, but Y kills carno really well, and X kills Y really well. Rather than just a linear power structure

[sage yew]

you can fix an apex by introducing an even bigger apex

Just kidding, I agree

[sand tiger]

essentially the hunger on Carno is the main detractor for it. it needs to eat all the time to not starve. if something meaner than a carno is in the game it will steal the bodies the carno needs to survive thus eliminating the domination of it. they wont be able to survive at the rate they are now. i agree with you that it's over tuned hence why im throwing out suggestions to deal with it. but i think if teno was a little stronger and the hitbox for the charge get fixed its going to be in a healthy place. It needs to dominate things smaller than it for it to be able to survive. its not a scavenger. It's a hunter and its kill or starve for the carno. Bigger meaner mid tiers will bully it while not being able to keep pace with the smaller dinos like the carno can. and will in turn try to hunt a bigger prize like steggos paras diablos and so on.

The reason it feels so strong is because its whole prey list is what is on the game right now subtract steggo. The Teno should be able to fight it tho that is for sure something that needs to be addressed.

also why i stated it was a mistake to add it in this early since the focus is on the little guys. but removing it is not an option so we have to add other things in order to reach balance

[sage yew]

The problem I see here, that some argue with long term solutions, and others talk about short term solutions

besides some bugs and fixes, is the carno kinda okay for the current gameplay, but assuming that whole new aspects of the game will be developed, I totally agree on Icandis view

[sand tiger]

i actually line up with his view quite a bit in what i was stating. other mid tiers would match up with carno very well while not really being able to keep pace (speed) with the things the carno hunts so aggressively.

[sage yew]

Resource and energy management should be considered. While currently carno is able to invest a lot of energy to hunt a juvi of any kind, without receiving any penalty. If a lion would try to go hunt mouses, it would invest far too much energy to make this process profitable, which the current gameplay does not take into account.

Thus dominating a whole ecosystem by selecting simply the biggest apex, is basically effortless

[frozen marlin]

Do they update this game once a year?

[sand tiger]

yeah i agree you probably get a bit to much for the younger side of things. i mean that's another reason it feels so bad right now is the carno is perfect for hunting something that is growing. nothing can get away. i'm honestly not sure what the solution is going to be until the roster widens and people will just lose interest in it.

[sage yew]

this wouldn't change anything for the smaller side of things, instead of getting eaten by 3 carnos, you get eaten by 3 of different kinds...

I think here of hunting mechanics, as currently is being faster and stronger is the way to go and that's not enough to build up diverse strategies

[lucid mauve]

Carno dominates the dumb omnis as it should, and if we are talking 1v1 carnos should dominate a omni. I see omnis out in the open all the time, they deserve to get punished. It even says in the description of omni " the really smart ones are the ones you dont see"

[sage yew]

because the only way to play right now, is to grow your dino till you can die in a battle royal, that's why you wont find any raptor in the jungle but on fields with sort of equal opportunities

also because trees are the main antagonists to raptors

[lucid mauve]

It will be tons of stuff on omnis menu later when more stuff gets added, carno is prob the last thing you wanne go for. But carno will also get new challenges as everything else. Its like me complaining about playing rex and walking out in the open and everyone runs away from me, saying i need better speed and stam since i cant catch anything

[sage yew]

without implementing more game mechanics you can't really balance stuff out, at most maybe sort of playable, but that's not really desirable

[lucid mauve]

Yea true, i think they are balancing now for future dinos. Hopefully atleast

[sand tiger]

what other mechanics do you think will help? any specific ones in mind?

[lucid mauve]

Venom might help etc

[weak dune]

Probably because most things, AI, food, and player, are put into certain areas and most of those areas just usually happen to be somewhere out in the open. Been playing more "forest omni" lately and half the time I almost starve before I find even AI food, which is almost always in an open area even in the forest/outside hotspots. Players? Nonexistent. All of them are in NW plains or center. Its even more clear when playing carno and having the best map mobility, in a sever of 100 people, maybe 5 of those people can be found outside hotspots, and usually its only fresh spawns, who then migrate to hotspots once adult.

Playing herbi like steg, dryo, etc as well, there isn't much food to be found except in a few specific places, which again mostly pushes herbis into specific areas, NW plains, center, or swamp close to water. Played stego for prob 12 hours collectively outside hotspot areas, traveled the entire map sniffing out food of which there are only a small couple areas where I could actually get diet items from, and saw maybe 3 legit players those entire 12 hours.

[lucid mauve]

I see your point, i cant say the same tho. I meet decent amount of players outside hotspots. But this is more of a map issue,more playables more people on servers etc. Alot of dinos will not be out in the open, some will be close to water some in jungles etc

[dire ridge]

The problem with spiro's jungle is that they're mostly empty

[lucid mauve]

Yea it is a problem, i do the same sometimes. Grow run over to hotspots etc. But im almost sure thats not how the game is supose to be in future, it will be much diffrent. And you can meet people everywhere outside hotspots etc.

[zinc idol]

@limber cairn try googling it or delete every file, uninstall and reinstall but try googling it first

@barren zephyr hypsi are herbivores

So it wouldn’t need to do that

[barren zephyr]

well he could be another candidat for omnivore and not just herbi by gaining nutrients from eggs

[zinc idol]

You can earn that stuff from current assigned diet

[barren zephyr]

the diet isnt the main point tho

this is just idea for making him more interesting to play

[lapis swallow]

But oviraptor exists to steal eggs

[toxic orchid]

@limber cairn if @zinc idol way don't work and the Error continues, may be something is wrong with ur RAM, as i purchased The Isle and played Evrima the first time, it constantly crashed to this error after few min ingame (1-20min) - I tried everything and than noticed my RAM wasn't correct in his spot, may be check this, before u do anything else, after this hints. (I installed windows new etc. - oh if i had knew before... i would saved a lot of time ^^)

[zinc idol]

Cause it’s a omnivore

But idk, i feel like stealing eggs and eating them is a carnivore thing

[sage yew]

Not really, as it's sort of No Man's Land, since no developer came that far. The only thing I can think of is some kind of quantity of mechanics, that hinder the ease of predictability and allow a more organic gameplay. But that sounds like development hell

[vital plover]

Yep, there's nothing of interest there, not even AI.

[sage yew]

That's why I think environment interactions are so important. Jungles work the same way as plains, in a sense that you can nearly always just run straight without even caring, with the main difference of obstructed vision and if you have to chose between poor and good visibility, the decision is easy where you prefer to play

[faint folio]

It only needs to dominate things smaller than it because it has absolutely absurd hunger drain. The thing eats like a horse. If they made it so carno has to actually work a bit harder to get food, and gave smalls at least a slim chance to survive a carno hunt, it wouldn't be terrible to buff carno's hunger again so it can plan and execute multiple hunts before starving. Also, not sure how bigger, meaner midtiers can bully a mid that is supposed to be one of the fastest dinos in the game...

[cyan flame]

Endurance hunt it, or in the case of cerato, just claim the kills and shoo the carno away.

[faint folio]

Okay but that still doesn't help the smalls... Carno got chased away from his meal. He's just going to turn around and kill another small 😅

[cyan flame]

If it has the time before starving as it were. But smalls do stand a chance at surviving, or will when the hitbox and similar things are fixed. Not to mention how it'll go when there's far more cover and tricky terrain for a carno to deal with.

But it was mostly to answer your question of how to bully a speedy critter.

[faint folio]

Well I'd agree, except there's no word on when gateway is coming, and I don't much fancy 6 months to a year of carno destroying absolutely everything with little effort before we get a map that might allow smalls to thrive in the forest

The hitbox does need to be fixed thoughh

[cyan flame]

Well, I think we're getting fixes before then, considering the balance pass. But if not, wouldn't be the first time we've had to deal with something being overtuned. Deino since it's beginning, omni most of it's existence aside from when pounce bugs out, pachy destroying tenos, and so on. And there's certainly been far worse situations than balance, such as outright issues with how mechanics work, or that one time we had the logout bug.

[faint folio]

True. But we've already had extensive conversations on deino balance, and Utah pounce

[bleak prism]

buff ptera

[cyan flame]

In what way?

[bleak prism]

every way...

[sage yew]

A more demanding resource management could be the key here. Survival is all about that, so why not go a bit further.

Stamina regeneration drains Hunger
Blood regeneration drains Water
Food ads to weight
(+)Weight impacts (-)speed

(+)Food = (-)Speed (+)strength
(+)Food = (+)Stamina over time (regen)
(+)Food = (-)Stamina now

(-)Food = (+)Speed (-)strength
(-)Food = (-)Stamina over time (regen)
(-)Food = (+)Stamina now

and so on, everything you do, should have an impact in both ways. Just crudely put together and open for discussion

[sage yew]

Stomach and Water management put together. You can eat 100% and drink 0%, or, 50% food and 50% water, or, 0% and 100%

Stomach volume, becomes an importand resource to manage.
While an surplus on food or water has different implications

Separating Stamina into Energy now and energy over time

Water fills up hydration
Food fills up energy over time
Energy over time fills up energy now

(day) Heat drains water
(night) Cold drains energy (over time)

I know it's presented like a mess, but I'm just putting together some thoughts

[tall hearth]

I was with you when you suggested stam and blood regen affecting hunger, but you lost me once food affects weight. Sounds like you want BoB 2. Nah

[neat reef]

but it makes sense? lmfao

[sage yew]

what is Bob?

[neat reef]

bro.

it's a dino game

3rd most known competitor to the isle

[tall hearth]

And its, uh...definitely a game.

[neat reef]

not a bad one

it's not good either tho lmfao

[tall hearth]

I'd say it's closer to bad than good tbh

[sage yew]

A full name would be helpful, would like to look it up. BoB leads me to nowhere

[tall hearth]

Beasts of bermuda

[neat reef]

what he said

or she, idfk

[sage yew]

Apache helicopter AH-64

Indeed, "BoB" went that way, but I didn't took any inspiration from there, as it just seemed to be reasonable and it felt a bit of that food intake does not have any effect on weight

[faint folio]

Eh my main complaint about it is that it is VERY complicated. I'm getting confused just reading it. Maybe just like... The first 4 lines, or the top 2

[sage yew]

yea, not very organised, more a scramble of thoughts

but the "complication" is kind of indented. Wouldn't use this phrasing tho, but I want to put everything into relation, where you move away from predictable buff choices and move into a realm of equilibrium and depending of the situations, you'll find yourself in different states, which can work for you, but also against you, while trying to put more emphasise on immersion

[summer thistle]

Bruh my suggestion didn’t work

[sage yew]

you mean the voting system?
<@&933486433342222376>

[summer thistle]

I was about to ping them aswell

[edgy harbor]

I'll poke around

[valid carbon]

@summer thistle Sorry but herbivore is actually played a lot more than you think, Pachy can actually kill Carnos 1v1 as headbutt RMB stops/cancels a Carnos RMB charge, get a body fracture on him and go for a leg and he will stamina out while you keep circling and RMB'ing him as a Pachy. Me (Pachy) and my Teno friend have been wiping the floor with Carno's all day, they go to charge my Pachy I just RMB them head on and they get stunned plus a chance at body fractured, which GREATLY reduces their stamina drain if they run, then you just chase them down they won't get far and be stammed out, game over.

My complaint is 100 players on and most of them are Deinos, it's insane how many crocs are in the game.

[sage yew]

there should be more to herbivores tho, beside of bashing on carnis. I definitely sympathise with expanding current mechanics. Once everyone has something as interesting to do in this world, a more realistic balancing can be done

[valid carbon]

To be honest I think Troodon is going to be a major bust anyway, play pachy they are OP and under played.. Only weakness they have is Deinos =p

[valid carbon]

Ok, there are a decent amount of Herbivores is what I'm telling you, it just doesn't feel like it because there isn't a global and 1 calls have been toned WAY down.

[limber hull]

lmao true, i'd honestly put pachy's strength on the same level as stego, except pachy gets to be twice as aggro and isn't as much a tank

[valid carbon]

It's very nice damage, costs hardly any stamina to use and can cancel a carnos charge np, which if they get a body break they have no choice but to run.

[limber hull]

pachy is NUTS atm if you can look at the screen and react to things

you can quite literally play pachy like a goddamn chimpanzee and it works great

[valid carbon]

I'm jealous of pachy to be honest because I'm a die hard Utah player and Pachy is just insanely good, but sucks vs Deinos

[limber hull]

pachy needs to not be able to punch up as much as it does

stagger should not be applied on every ram against animals almost 4x its size

[valid carbon]

No but it is! 😈

Carno charing me NP! Headbutt he's staggered out of charge I circle and headbutt again to stagger his body breaks.. If he keeps fighting me he runs out of stamina I just deliver to pain after that.

I had a Carno just lay down and let me kill him because he knew he was screwed

[limber hull]

have it that if your dino gets a fracture (fall damage, pachy headbutt, other), it gets staggered, then have pachy's ram only stagger against animals 2x the size of it. That way, pachy can still stagger larger animals like carno, and still focuses on fracturing, but can't stunlock it to death and will eventually get obliterated by damage trades, since its still a small animal

[valid carbon]

I laughed when I seen how they nerfed Omni but left Pachy like this, haven't played pachy ever but I'm loving it now I go looking for Carno 1v1 fights

I think most pachys run from carnos and get charged/knockdown down and killed and curse carno charge, but if they knew that pachy can disrupt carnos charge with RMB and just keep raining down stuns/staggering there would be packs of pachys everywhere

Plus I noticed pachy takes a lot leff damage from a carnos bite vs omni.

less*

[limber hull]

that's not really a thing

the difference is pachy has more health and a damage resist to head damage

[valid carbon]

Yeah makes sense he bit at my head =p

[valid carbon]

I remember a past update where if a bite would pass through you it would hit the most vital spot instead of the least vital so its safe to assume your head will be taking more hits.

[cyan flame]

Ah yes, when the highest hitbox counted and deinos would bite stego heads through their asses. Also before then when the first hitbox counted, so omnis could just turn their tailtip towards a stego jab and take minimal damage depsite the hit covering their entire body. Fun times! xD

[ancient kestrel]

Pachy isn't good damage dealer also

[ancient kestrel]

I think raptors just have under performed stats now

If the dilo in Evrima will be venomous and not the bleeder, may be omnis should be focused little more on the bleeding than now?

[rare fractal]

It’d be pretty redundant to give the most bleed focused animal in the game a greater focus on bleed

[ancient kestrel]

I thought that stego and carno can do much more

[rare fractal]

Well yes they have a higher bleed application rate simply because they deal significantly more DPS…Carno is 4 times omnis size and stego dwarfs it….

Technically pounce deals more bleed damage than carnos are able to dps wise

[ancient kestrel]

Anyway raptors pouncing broken and his turn rate was nerfed for no reason

[rare fractal]

Wrong on both accounts

[ancient kestrel]

Huh?

[rare fractal]

The threshold where inertia really kicks in is bugged rn, but it barely effects omnis turn comparative to its last turn. It’s definitely worse but Omni still turns faster than anything in the game

And pounce isn’t any mechanically less useful than it was before, buck is just…actually useful, so omnis need to tap pounce more often or wear down the targets stam

Which is honestly how they should be hunting

[ancient kestrel]

Ok, but what wrong with current raptor? Last thing that i can see -- not enough damage per bite

[rare fractal]

Not much, it’s actually in the best place it’s been in a long time, the main issue is that Carno’s charge hitbox is way too big, and we’re not on gateway yet….that map is MADE for Omni

Also how does it deal too little damage per bite

It’s an attrition pack hunter under half a ton, it having equivalent damage to a third of a carnos bite is more than fair

Especially when it has pounce

[ancient kestrel]

But as far as I know, the raptor loses too much stamina during pouncing. And I've heard from people saying this is a bug

[limber hull]

Not enough damage on bite? For raptor? You serious?

[rare fractal]

It really doesn’t, just tap pounce and you’ll never even really interact with the drain unless the target is already mid buck, which is why coordination is important.

It shouldn’t deplete in chunks for sure

[limber hull]

Raptor's damage per kg is well over double that of deino's and is MUCH higher than carno's. It's got a CRAZY bite force, it's one of its strongest elements

[rare fractal]

But the drain rate on most things isn’t really an issue aside from the play style adjustment from when Omni was literally the most broken animal in the game bar deino

[limber hull]

Pachy's taken the throne of most broken playable for the time being

[valid carbon]

Might rethink that statement, we took down multiple carno's duos as pachy, even a 3v2 fight we still killed 2 of the Carnos but lost to the stego which we expected.

[rare fractal]

Still deino

[limber hull]

True

[rare fractal]

Granted deino is borderline separate from the concept of balance :p

[limber hull]

Everything added in U3 > every other animal lmao

[ancient kestrel]

I have tries to guess why i have seen much more carnos on the map than omnis

[rare fractal]

Because charge is busted

[limber hull]

Because carno is functionally broken in a way that heavily benefits it

[rare fractal]

Omni isn’t too weak, Carno is just too easy to play

[limber hull]

Its charge is bugged

[indigo mural]

This comment makes no sense

[rare fractal]

And it lacks any failure conditions

[rare fractal]

Fortunately for me that was the point

[limber hull]

It's the ONLY special ability in the game without an immediate stam cost (which makes it so spammable)

[indigo mural]

Oh I see you’re one of those

[valid carbon]

Omni is complete trash until they fix it, tap pouncing really doesn't do anything to be honest.. Tested this enough to switch to pachy until it gets buffed.

[limber hull]

I will echo it as much as it needs to be echoed.
Fix the hitbox, give it a 5% startup cost on stam, reduce the knockdown weight threshold to 50% of the carno's weight

[ancient kestrel]

To be fair deino is too.

[limber hull]

Tap pouncing is honestly quite effective, IDK where this sentiment comes from

[valid carbon]

Omni pounce wasn't overpowered it was actually spot on, they nerfed it then buffed it to nerf it again worse than the first time they nerfed it, which makes no sense. 😛

[limber hull]

This is incredibly untrue

[rare fractal]

Oh, please tell me you’re joking

[limber hull]

This is coming from someone who basically plays omni 75% of the time. That pounce was ABSURD

[valid carbon]

Obviously you don't remember when they first nerfed it and no one would play Omni, until it got buffed again.

[rare fractal]

Why does that at all matter

[limber hull]

"First nerfed it", you mean when it outright didn't functionally work?

[rare fractal]

If it was too strong…it was too strong

Omni doesn’t “deserve” to be overpowered because it went so long being too weak

[limber hull]

Ever since they fixed the pounce bugs where omni would levitate in place and die, the animal was beyond viable

[valid carbon]

It was not to strong, just because you got pounced by 3-4 omni doesn't make it strong, its logic of pact hunting?

[limber hull]

No

The problem was one omni could take down animals 4x its size

(which is also a problem with current pachy)

[rare fractal]

Oh please do explain what kind of person I am

[rare fractal]

Alone*

Regularly

[limber hull]

yea, that. Kinda stupid

[rare fractal]

It wasn’t hard, I abused the hell out of that

[ancient kestrel]

I think it requires litlle more of players skill than pachy

[limber hull]

U5.5 omni? No

Now it def takes skill

[rare fractal]

Right now absolutely

[limber hull]

(which is why so many omni mains are fuming lol)

i'm kinda liking the new actually hard omni

much better than the "pounce outright breaks and kills you every time you use it" omni

goddamn U4 was rough

so many dead omnis to the world's worst bug

[valid carbon]

No one will play omni it's complete garbage, so complaining about it now doesn't matter. And during 5.5 it took 4-5 pounces to kill a full grown Carno which one Omni could not do solo so your argument is still not correct 😛

[limber hull]

Yes, it could, it really wasn't hard

Source: I did it, regularly, so did many others

[valid carbon]

Suuuuure you did. 😉

[limber hull]

Ah, yes, discredit, the winner's argument

[ancient kestrel]

I don't main any if current dino. I have played same amount of time on the omni, pachy, carno and deino. Less on ptera, teno, stego and hypsi.
Cause my main is just not relesed yet

[limber hull]

I love omni, I play the hell out of it

It was absurd how good that damn thing was in U5.5

Now it actually takes packs and skill to take down larger animals

You don't just kill a teno because you know how to cheese the hell out of it, you actually need mates to help you take it down

[valid carbon]

No it takes not playing Omni, you are delusional.

[limber hull]

(pachy, however, still needs to learn to stay in its goddamn lane and stop easily felling massive animals)

[valid carbon]

You can have a pack of 10 omnis they won't touch one full grown carno or stego or teno.

They way you are trying to balance the game in your view will just make smaller races no fun to play.

[limber hull]

You realise that this update gave omni one of it's best buffs to date? Everyone is sleeping on it but it's INSANE

You can't buck anymore while out of stam

[valid carbon]

Everyone will play the apex, kinda like how Evirma is going right now.

[limber hull]

Combine this with the bleed nerfing stam regen, and you can just obliterate things

[limber hull]

I want the smaller animals to be fun to play against, not the most fun because they kill everything they see. A solo omni or solo pachy should not be killing animals with 3x the time investment and size

[rare fractal]

If people dislike having to try they can play something else…maybe once Carno requires an ounce of conscious thought and we’re on gateway things will be different

But Omni doesn’t need to be stronger…

[limber hull]

Carno's stupid atm, that's 100% agreed

[valid carbon]

The bleed of pounce is horrible, go try it on arena with a friend.

[limber hull]

Needs fixes and toning down

It's the same it has literally always been lmao

[rare fractal]

It’s really quite good actually

[limber hull]

Do you know how bleed actually works in EVRIMA?

[valid carbon]

Exactly, it was never about bleed.

Thank you for the acknowledgment

[lucid mauve]

Carno killing small? Sounds like its doing what its supose for me, the hitbox should be toned down for sure

[valid carbon]

Carno is fine, the hitbox is not I agree on that.

[limber hull]

"The bleed of pounce is horrible, go try it on arena with a friend."
"Exactly, it was never about bleed."

Que? No hablo?

[valid carbon]

Welcome to english

Need me to explain it?

[rare fractal]

What?

[valid carbon]

THE BLEED WAS NEVER GOOD ON POUNCE.

[limber hull]

?????

[valid carbon]

understand?

[limber hull]

My brain

[rare fractal]

What game are you playing….

[lucid mauve]

It was insane before : P

[limber hull]

Oh my god my brain

[rare fractal]

Like I’m not usually this dismissive but I’m convinced we’re in seperate universes rn

[limber hull]

There is no way on God's green earth you genuinely believe that

Are you playing, like, some branch I'm not aware of?

Bizarro EVRIMA?

[rare fractal]

Pounce used to nearly 1 tap Carno…

What am I hearing….

[limber hull]

Every other bleed attack scales 1:1 with the damage dealt.

Omni pounce, however, deals 3X THE BLEED OF NORMAL BLEED ATTACKS

It MATHEMATICALLY does the most bleed of any attack in the entire game

[rare fractal]

Aside from stegos tail swing

[valid carbon]

Which bleed attacks are you doing?

[rare fractal]

That’s it….a 1.25k damage attack

[limber hull]

Which only does so much because the swing base damage does so much

[rare fractal]

Pounce obv

[rare fractal]

No I know, and even then I’m fine with the bleed on it

[limber hull]

Yea, no complaints, it's an excellent deterrent

[valid carbon]

The bleed doesn't stack it drains normally like any other attack, even in the description that was released with Omni stated is was raw damage, you both are incorrect.

Pounce has never been about bleed.

[limber hull]

brain anguish

this is not real

[rare fractal]

All bleed damage values stack….what are you talking about

[limber hull]

this is proof that there are realities outside of our own

we are making first contact with alternate realities

[rare fractal]

The only time this was actually true was when stego and Carno were first added and 4 omnis Dps’d a stego to death with buck

That was the only time

[urban flax]

Eat grass and die ?

[limber hull]

I don't even know what this is

[rare fractal]

Gotta love it!

[limber hull]

This is something far beyond eat grass and die

[rare fractal]

Eat grass and unexist yourself?

[urban flax]

Just die then

[limber hull]

I'll be honest though, this is certainly a fresh take

After so much of the same old arguments, this hot cup of actual lunacy is an interesting change

[valid carbon]

Look both of you should never give suggestions about balance, seems you never test this out but are comment warriors to the max, you whine about things get it nerfed then state a opinion without even testing anything.

[lucid mauve]

I mean if omni was balanced before with that bleed, how good the other playable goonna be ? Cus to make allo balanced then, it would sorta need to slice the carno in two lol

[limber hull]

You realise I was QA? It was my JOB to know the stats and balance of each and every animal? I have tested EXTENSIVELY in this region, I can guarantee you with my complete sincerity, omni has been a bleed-focused animal since U3.75, which respecced the pounce from a raw damage tool to a bleed tool

[rare fractal]

The sheer volume of time I’ve spent testing the current updates balance…and you just assume I haven’t…lmao
Like I literally get in testing servers with members of QA from time to time just to get some insight behind the curtain on the mechanics of some of the changes…

[valid carbon]

Pounce does not do 3x bleed, I've tested this with taps I have videos showing fights lasting forever with multiple pounces.. It does bleed damage but just like any other attack and you can bleed stuff out.

[rare fractal]

Also wave is literally former QA

[valid carbon]

I'm not even arguing with you that pounce is bad for damage, it's just broken

[limber hull]

(I know the numbers because I tested the numbers)

[rare fractal]

It statistically does, this is an objective truth

[limber hull]

It is an objective fact

It has been confirmed time and time again by both devs and QA

[rare fractal]

Like it’s unarguable whether it is or isn’t because it simply is

[rare fractal]

Recently as well

[limber hull]

Omni is a bleed-focused animal and has special properties to deal excess bleed

[valid carbon]

And it's bleed sucks, its based on a duration of pounce that cannot be applied.

So your argument is still not valid

If I could land a full pounce on you then the bleed would be GOOD and evene then it takes all my STAMINA TO DO IT. No other dinosaur has this hard of a restriction because people like you cried about it too much,

[rare fractal]

It's bleed is a flat rate of damage delivered incrementally, the duration of the pounce determines how many ticks can be applied...the former minimum pounce time allowed for enough bleed damage to be applied to a carno to bring it down to around 20% of it's bloodpool...that amount is now thankfully lower as pounce hasn't become any more skillfull in practice as a mechanic..

[rare fractal]

Pack hunter
One of the smallest carnivores in evrima's roster
Is attempting to tango with animals several times it's size.
Not seeing instant gratification from a bucked pounce...
This all seems to line up

[limber hull]

The playstyle of omni has changed. It's a lot more about endurance and exhaustion. Bleed = lower stam regen, spamming attacks = less stam, sprinting a lot = more bleed rate and less stam, and no stam = no bucking. Once you've exhausted an animal in a hunt as omni, you can literally kill it easier than omni ever could

Even bucking harms stamina, you want to make sure your prey runs out so you can maul it

[rare fractal]

Also a lack of stam makes your target literally helpless regardless of what it is...bait attacks and wear targets down and you've got yourself a guaranteed W

[valid carbon]

Ok Omni is still garbage and that is why no one hardly plays Omni anymore, and you two will argue until the end of time I just don't care.

[limber hull]

It USED to be able to buck without stam, but U6 changed that, making zero stam = a hellscape

[valid carbon]

Omni's pounce is not balanced with other dinosaurs.

[rare fractal]

No it's because carno and deino and pachy are quite literally mechanically broken in a self serving way...none of those animals need to try...at all

[limber hull]

Try changing your approach to fights? You can't expect pounce to be the win-all button anymore

Also yea, all of its competition (besides teno) are STUPIDLY broken atm

[rare fractal]

And it deletes tenos rn....so....I feel like this is an open and shut case

[valid carbon]

No just whatever, its people like you who get things nerfed and unbalanced, it's whatever.

[limber hull]

Basically the problem is less about omni and more about "dear god why is everything so much stronger than it needs to be"

I'm sorry, do you LIKE the ballistic missile that is carno?

Or the untouchable bastion of pachy?

[rare fractal]

Or the literal immortal 1 shot that is deino

Omni's been power crept...that's all

[limber hull]

Honestly, stego is more of an honest fair fight than any of these animals

And that's literally terrifying

[rare fractal]

And one of the more interesting ones rn....

Tbf if it lacks an obstacle you can duo it without much effort

Still...but yknow

[valid carbon]

Do you guys actually play the game, Deinos and Stegos fight all day at center and they both can walk away after trading blows if anything stego takes the win because Deino can't apply headshots to it.

[limber hull]

Then it sits by a rock and the fight has concluded lol

Stego is the only unfavourable matchup deino has, and it can easily just choose "nah" and avoid stego entirely

[valid carbon]

I've watched multiple almost full grown deinos get smacked down at waters edge vs 1 stego.

[rare fractal]

True...but if any apex is going to treat omnis that way...it'd be stego

[rare fractal]

And even rn it is soloable post lunge buff

does around 650 dmg now

[limber hull]

Yea. Kinda wish we got any other apex than the one that's the best at invalidating smalls and pseudo-mids...

I'm not joking when I say trike could've been a better choice

[rare fractal]

Same with carno....the anti small plains hunter...or pachy...the anti everything in it's weightclass and slightly above herbi....or deino...the anti everything animal

[rare fractal]

By far

[limber hull]

Every day I believe the "spino will EASILY clap deino" thing less and less

[rare fractal]

That's how you know those deinos were afk

[rare fractal]

Even still I hate that...I just want deino to have any degree of depth to it...no pun intended

[valid carbon]

How were they afk, they fight all day at the water where are you no one is afk?

[rare fractal]

Because 2 deinos quite literally can't lose against a stego unless they're only biting it's tail

[limber hull]

I love how every matchup with deino is black and white. The ONE interesting possible matchup it could have with spino, and the devs say "nah, deino gets clapped"

[rare fractal]

Statistically they can't

[rare fractal]

So unfortunate....they could make water less of a shroud of invisibility and give deino some stronger defensive attacks to make it more interesting but no....aquatic lightning gator that gets deleted by 1 animal

Gotta love it 👍

[lucid mauve]

You better change the grab then, cus thats gonna be useless against something larger.

[limber hull]

You keep making this argument whenever this topic comes up and I don't know why

[rare fractal]

I don't even think it should have one in the games current state

[limber hull]

Lunge was never meant for large animals

[lucid mauve]

Cus you keep making this topic come up

[limber hull]

It's like saying carno needs something to deal with allo

Why tho???

[rare fractal]

It's a bizarre point to make about enabling an animal who specializes in decimating a size category to hit drastically above said size category

[radiant gale]

stego isnt fair to fight when the tails can touch you from 10 ft

[rare fractal]

latency, the hitbox is actually really tight ironically

[limber hull]

Stego's hitbox is actually quite well done, issue is lag

[rare fractal]

It just covers a large area so it feels more severe

[lucid mauve]

Im not disagreeeing , im saying whats been said. And if they wanted to make deino viable vs spino, they would need to give him something else then grab. And just out from logic grab is very powerfull.

[limber hull]

Compare it to carno's charge and you immediately notice that it's WAY more honest

[valid carbon]

The fact that a carno can repeadly charge and charge and charge is broken, a pachy who can constantly use RMB 15 times with still having stamina to fight is broken, teno same boat as pachy.. But you guys think pounce is broke because you got jumped by a pack of omnis is HILARIOUS, pounce has never been able to be applied over and over, and tap pouncing does nothing.. Not in 6.0 anyway. All I said was Omni is garbage and you revert to a change that was

[rare fractal]

Land locked charge bite would be neat, then just making spino less offensively capable in water than it is on land....just a spitball

[limber hull]

We've been saying that carno and pachy are broken too tho

We think those animals are absurd in their current state

[rare fractal]

Yes it is...you jump off...then you jump back on

[limber hull]

Although the teno take is weird, that animal is by far the most honest, fair and balanced animal in the game atm. Too bad it's overshadowed by the roaming gods

[rare fractal]

And tap pouncing is just as effective in 5.5 as it is in 6

[lucid mauve]

I would never play spino, if i could have grab and be at power lever of a spino. I mean, from a balance point of view that is

[valid carbon]

Fluff, I've applied a lot of tap pounce and once you start they per buck you, try this against a smart player.

[limber hull]

tried playing teno, once was charge-spammed into oblivion by a single carno, the other i was rammed by aggro pachies who knew how easy it was to pull off

[rare fractal]

Intelligence is literally irrelevant, if you're tap pouncing properly they can't chunk your stam...even if they do you still have 60% left

Buck doesn't get stronger because the user of said buck is smarter

[valid carbon]

Lets go do this in arena, I'll be pachy you be omni we see who will win?

[rare fractal]

you can't begin a buck before an omni has pounced you

[rare fractal]

You'd win, pachy hard counters

[limber hull]

Pachy, obviously, we've been saying for a while that the pachy is insanely overtuned atm

[rare fractal]

Because that's pachy's.....purpose

It's also VERY strong atm

[limber hull]

And even if it weren't overtuned, it's DESIGNED to deal with omnis

[valid carbon]

Ok ill be teno you be omni

[rare fractal]

That's irrelevant to omni being too weak...pachy is either too strong or that's what it's supposed to do

[rare fractal]

You'd win, I'm a single omni, the pack based hunter

[limber hull]

If he COULD solo you as a single omni while you were playing a teno, THAT would be a cause for concern

[radiant gale]

the omni pounce apply bleed damage by the time you pounced, if you only pounce 0,1 second and have 10% its useless

[rare fractal]

Why are we comparing a 1.6kg animal to the 450kg animal as if they're supposed to be balanced to fight in a 1v11

[limber hull]

Because big game hunter???

I guess?

[rare fractal]

Solos stego...oneshots brachi

Drags deino out of the water

[limber hull]

Perfect

[valid carbon]

I've soloed sub adult carnos as omni and nothing about it applies with a pounce, pounce is just a for sure death. I can even fight Stegos as raptor.

[rare fractal]

Well yeah stego is duo-able rn...they can't counter facial pouncing without a terrain advantage

[limber hull]

Sub adult carnos? You must be insane, those things are scarier than the adults lol. So much stam and speed

[valid carbon]

Carno is easier than pachy.

[rare fractal]

Also thanks I didn't even catch that...my brain must've prioritized the part that made more sense

[limber hull]

I believe you

[rare fractal]

Yes

[valid carbon]

Ill go to arena and fight you as a sub adult carno vs my adult omni

[rare fractal]

Because an adult pachy is quite literally designed specifically to counter omnis

[limber hull]

Pachy is designed to hard-counter an omni

[rare fractal]

Oh sick...you as omni me on carno?

[valid carbon]

Yes

[rare fractal]

meet me on Scope

I'll go as a 70% carno

[valid carbon]

give me a minute need to redownload evirma been playing legacy 😛

[rare fractal]

Np, go into #evrima-na when you’re ready and @ me

We'll communicate through there so we don’t have to send DMs using admin panel

@limber hull I'll let ya know how it goes

[limber hull]

I'm pumped

[rare fractal]

So far it's a consistent wash

[limber hull]

melting them?

[rare fractal]

Yep

Gonna go down to 50% to see if that's any easier

It will be but yknow

[sand lantern]

@indigo mural cool idea

[lapis swallow]

As expected

[remote dock]

Just a quick thing for unstuck button
Fr easiest way to prevent it being used to escape fights is to have it on a countdown like 60 seconds similiar to safe log. I saw this mentioned and fr. People have lifes outside this game snd its hella annoying to have to logout to prevent ur dino dying because theres no admin online to help. Sometimes it takes til the next day before you get the ability ti play ur dino back

[lapis swallow]

Wrong channel

[remote dock]

no?

i read it in here

i dont wanna direct reply but i read it in here

[lapis swallow]

Oh, I thougt you were writing a suggestion

[remote dock]

no no i saw someone in here saying why unstuck could be abused

but if its set to be like safelog i dont see the issue

[queen ember]

@pulsar iron devs are on break rn and there’s no need for a devblog every two weeks

[sage yew]

That was me, 60s Timer could actually work very well.

[vital plover]

#general-feedback message This is exactly what I tried to say with my feedback, but somehow I got 50% downvotes lol. Yes, please do something about the diets, it's frustrating. And no animal would strategically eat less than they have available to leave some "space" in case they find other nutrients. Or even vomit precious calories out to get a better diet.

[modern cedar]

@robust dome ( phase three request do not have a chat for so i put this here) gateway is already on the roadmap , they've called him "smaller map"

[limber hull]

half true, Gateway is smaller than Spiro as an island, but as a map, it's actually got more playable space

[uneven mist]

basically bigger than the playable area of spiro but smaller than the whole island

[limber hull]

yea

[sage yew]

I don't want to say that diet could not be improved, but I think that carnivores will eat whatever is available is a sort of misconception. It's hard to provide evidence as not many sources cover the topic of nutrient consumption of predators specifically, but I've seen more often (documentaries) that Animals focus indeed on precious parts, if possible.

Especially predators that are reliant on efficient feeding methods to sustain maximal performance to keep hunting efficiency as high as possible.

One of the main evidences are possibly scavengers. Like what would they eat, if every carnivore would nibble down their prey to the bones. Which would probably be a way too resources intensive process to do so.

The resulting pickiness, resulting from the current nutrient system, does not seem so far fetched, as the first inconveniences might suggest.

https://youtu.be/b0dabXAy7uA
I've found something.

[agile roost]

#general-feedback message
💀

[sage yew]

not really discussable

[agile roost]

True lol

[vital plover]

For apex predators this is certainly the case, at least when they have abundance. Transient orcas eat often just the tongue of other whales. But it makes less sense for herbivores, who have a diet of low calory density and thus are more likely to eat whatever is available. Same for scavangers, who depend on an irregular food source.

Generally speaking, some species are picky eaters and others eat whatever they can, and most are somewhere in the middle. But a game mechanic that makes you want to EMPTY your stomache for better food makes no sense for any species.

[sage yew]

Currently it's a matter of one size fits all diplomacy and I haven't taken herbivores into account, as they don't have any mechanics reflecting any adaptations or whatsoever.

Diets will be probably adjusted at some point, to reflect abilities and adaptations, to give a deeper emphasis on balancing. As you climb up the Apex Tier list, the pickiness should increase, while scavengers can enjoy a wider variety of food sources, what is currently lacking completely.

but it's currently not that bad, that you have to pay more attention of what you eat when (as a carnivore), as in nature you wouldn't focus on stuffing yourself up with whatsoever. And gameplay wise it's loosing up some tension, as it can be nice to spare that baby stego, because eating it wouldn't be beneficial at all, but that carno over there looking tasty as duck.

so yea, I like the new dynamics the diet system brought in
but it's indeed annoying when you want to fill up protein, but for some reason it opens up another bar, so you end up sitting there for depletion, till you can eat again. Like wtf.

[remote dock]

yee discord spazzed when i went to reply and didnt feel like refinding lol

pickiness should be reflected in hunger not just age imo. Any animal gets a lot less picky the more hungry they are

and the fact itll start a new one instead of topping off an existing depleting one is ridiculohs

[sage yew]

You can always eat, if you are hungry. But it shouldn't be always beneficial if you just don't want to care what you eat, for some reasons (like actually starving). From a gameplay and balancing standpoint this does not make any sense

Other survival games have for example different calibre sizes of ammunition, that you need to find specifically for your gun - that's kind of the same approach here

[tall hearth]

That would more correlate with the size of the food you choose to eat. Like if I'm playing an adult rex and I'm trying to live off of juvi trikes, I'm gonna starve.

If I go for big sub adult and adult trikes, that's a good meal. Predators should be more so picky about the size of the meal, rather than the type. Diets already reflect the "pickiness" you're looking for.

[sage yew]

As it hurts a bit of current comfort I understand that it might be controversial. But it's not strict enough.

If diets are bound to species, a grown up stego has enough resources to feed herds of apex predators for a long period of time and thus competition is lacking far behind. It actually just allows every predator, to simply scavenge and is not reflecting needs and desires of species. In which diets can reflect those very well.

One of the main aspects of being an Apex is, that you are the first one who gets the best part and this should be reflected in "pickiness"

Just thinking, while I was a kid I could eat anything as my metabolism could handle nearly everything, now I simply get fat if I don't care enough

[remote dock]

tbf this is cause of the state of the game. stegos are more prevevlent than dryo n hypsi

[remote dock]

and also this is the same reason i think this would work balancing as the games dino diversity ecosystem isnt the best. deino player. young deinos are reliant on scavenging due to where turtles n crabs r

[icy flare]

so i tuned in after a couple months not playing was there not a night vision update ? its pitch black for me at 8 pm

[limber hull]

press X

[icy flare]

nothing happens i also cant fidn NV in settings

[sage yew]

If you can't make it work with 9 species, it won't work with 50 as well

also, young deinos can easily ambush and hunt juvis. As I just experienced it and got hunted while I've let my guard down =/

But non the less, pickiness can increase with age, while being more forgiving and less restricting while being young

[remote dock]

tbf this has to do with the fact that turtles/crabs arent efficient for deinos

[remote dock]

i def would be oki with that yeah. pickiness jncrease with age

[sage yew]

rabbits aren't either for raptors, at some point you have to move away from AI

[remote dock]

a combination of both

like i think its fine for full growns to be picky my comment was more cause i know deino juvi life way to well

[remote dock]

yee no i agree cause the diets def have this food is more for juvi and this is more for adults

and the main reason deinos crab turtle source is not great is cause spiro is spiro

[sage yew]

I've considered that, but it's hard to explain ideas in every aspect, but yes

[remote dock]

yeah quick replies between doin stuff is why im not goin in detail

i think just for balancing purposes its like. young deinos can get juvis yeah but then theres also situations where like steg kill circles

combinin pickiness with age would be best

[sage yew]

basically difficulty scales with your progression. At least related to buffs, as this wouldn't have impacts on surviving related to hunger

[remote dock]

yeah

but tbf young dinos already getting snacked on by adults rn

deinos would rwther go for a baby deino then try for stego

[sage yew]

but then again, spiro is being spiro

[remote dock]

fr tho

it could go witha comfort feature too. like eating the wrong food pisses ur dino off

i already say that comfort should be a thing to at thw minimum discourage mixpacking

rn mixpacking is just to prevelent in the gsme imo

it is completely unrealistic for a stego a teno and raptors to run with a carno

and the steg raptor combo is the one i see the most often

also for the love of all that is good and mighty can they please add a debuff for killing someone you are actively grouped with

[sage yew]

I still don't know how to prevent herbi and carni mixpacks

[remote dock]

discomfort, make there stats drop faster around eachother

and have it start after x amount of time to account for combat

[sage yew]

suggested it once, got bashed by the community for this

[remote dock]

yes ppl can still get around it but it will lower the severity of it at least a little

[remote dock]

this tho

this needs to be a thing

its become far to common for ppl to group and then cannibalize

i have stopped grouping unless its a baby purely because of it

its sucks but i cant trust ppl not to group just to kill and i know it was a issue with pachys in particular for a bit

[remote dock]

also isle community is toxic af imo

ppl pretty aggro in this community for some reason

[lapis swallow]

My issue with that is the fact that getting diet should not be very difficult to get. Its a base mechanic that every player that understands the game should have good access to. Elders are gonna be the stuff that will be difficult for people to have and suceed at. I think you are gonna get some tasks with elder that you have to complete in order to get perks and becoming a elder will play into the diet system, so I would rather have diet be the simple stuff to get and make elder the challenge

Because if only skilled players can get good diets, how many can get to elder (which is supposed to be the endgame stuff)?

[remote dock]

my issue is the complete lack of ingame explanation of the diet system

ended up getting the info dmed to me on discord because i couldnt find the official post

[remote dock]

but yes diet is severely unbalanced across species

pachys fr locked out til they can open coconuts

[lapis swallow]

Yep

[tall hearth]

Abusable to the highest degree.

Theres nothing stopping a group from sending an omni or two in to debuff a herd or another carni group, and have bigger and stronger playables roll up and wipe the debuffed animals out

Like you think mixpacking is bad as is right now, why would you think of a mechanic that mixpackers would severely abuse to their advantage

[remote dock]

idk if i mentioned but have it happen aftrr x amount of time

so it doesnt effect xombat

and while it isnt a blanker fix it helps

yes ppl can space to avoid n still mixpaxk but it should lower pevelence slightly imo

[tall hearth]

Yeah? Send faster playables than what you're trying to hunt, they get debuffed and the rest of the group rolls in to stomp the debuffed group.

What's not to get

[remote dock]

i did mention

[tall hearth]

You arent getting it.

They send in faster playables that dont touch the group and they all get debuffed stats. They cant defend themselves as well from the group on it's way to fight the debuffed group

[remote dock]

how? if theres a timer. then it shouldnt activste in combat. giving u time to kill things. jt be like after 3 minutes or sucgc

random number but yk what i mean

[sage yew]

If debuff is dependend on age and combined with a delay it shouldn't be abusable.

raptors shouldn debuff a herbi herd, as the herbi herd debuffs the raptors
delay should be higher then stamina lasts for outmanoeuvring

[remote dock]

yep

[lapis swallow]

If you have omnis against a stego, what is the stego gonna do? They raptors just have to hang around and be far enough away to not make the stego swing

[tall hearth]

2 allos send in 2 omnis to debuff two slow dinos, rolls up and fight and kills the group with debuffed stats.

[lapis swallow]

They wont even have to fight

They just need to exist around it

[tall hearth]

They cant catch the omnis so they get debuffed with no counter play

And the only solution to that is more mixpacking

[remote dock]

the entire idea would be to have it not trigger for combat cause delay. like make delay long enough for ombat

[sage yew]

Herbis are the ones already in danger, why debuf herbis anyway
it's the carnivores that should have additional discomfort being around herbis without fighting

[lapis swallow]

But the omnis can just hang around until the debuff kicks in

[true haven]

Yeah debuff carnivores

[tall hearth]

They dont have to begin combat. I know what you're saying. How can a stego with debuffed stats catch the 2 omnis that are debuffing it?

[burnt bone]

You’re not understanding.
If I follow a stego as an Omni and we both get debuffs after like 5-10 mins. Then allos come and kill the debuffed stego

[remote dock]

also allos

[true haven]

So they could be killed easily just like “cats that never live in a wild, it will die in starvation” and they starve a lot

[remote dock]

alllos?

[lapis swallow]

Because what are big herbivores gonna do against a bunch of omnis circleing them and not making a move? Nothing

[burnt bone]

That’s why my idea makes it less viable to mixpack, rather than just debuffs:

#general-feedback message

[true haven]

And maybe add a bit of stacking

The longer the worst the effect

[remote dock]

maybe then what the one person said. make it effect the raptors but not the stegs cause stefs big

[burnt bone]

Here then, replace stego with teno and allo with carno, same effect

[remote dock]

yee then as im saying change it to wjat the one guy said where its more one way cause the stegs outclass raptors

to only punish the raptors for being dumbasses n trying thst

[burnt bone]

Then that doesn’t stop the main issue, the fact that the small guys can just be protected by bigger ones, so small predators suffer.

[remote dock]

theres probs better solutoond but fr there needs to be a mixpacking deterent

[sage yew]

why should be herbis be debuffed in the first place. Maybe they actually should, but they could recieve a 200% resistance to debuff by presence of carnis near by

[burnt bone]

Again, I’d rather the mechanical changes like I stated above

[remote dock]

buffing would be more abusable tbf

[sage yew]

not mentioned buffing

[remote dock]

misread rsistance as buff lol

its early for me im tired lol

[sage yew]

the point is, such a system can work if done right. Such things as "lets hang around till they're debuffed" is avoidable, with enough if and then statements

when you need to hang around as an full grown omni in a range of 15meters, for 15 minits, for example, than you'll face a pretty hard time as omnis to reach this goal

[remote dock]

i go to debuffs over timr but like the only reason is bevause mixpacking is stupid. like yeah i think for me its not even about abuse. i think its funny when a random baby raptor runs around stegs. problem being it goes from funny to the raptor being bait so the steg can kill things or the steg protrxting a raptor. its dunny right up until it backfires

[sage yew]

juvi = 0% debuff rate
sub = 25% debuff rate
adult = 100% debuff rate x1.0 low tier, x1.2 mid tier, x2.0 high tier apex

agile, small and hard to hit juvis don't present any danger

also, being close proximity for a long period of time, could have different effects for different species, like raptors losing 10% movement speed, which would make "movement abuse" to, lower herbis, much harder

and would discourage carnis to stay in close proximity for a too long time, maybe say hallo and pass

[remote dock]

total aside b4 i say it in he suggesions to bring back. does anyone know why dryo lost burrows?

[limber hull]

that seriously sucks tho, it's not fun and easily abusable. Punishments aren't good ways to encourage players to do things, or keep playing

i genuinely dislike most comfort suggestions because it's just more punishment that can be abused

[sage yew]

punishment and reward are the only thing that you have to alter any behaviour

[limber hull]

so try reward

rather than punishment

[sage yew]

...that's the same, but in reverse
also you ignoring my statements and examples

It "sucks" is not an valid argument at all

[limber hull]

ah yes, punishment is the same as reward, it's just the complete opposite

sorry, what?

[sage yew]

and easeily abusable, is it only if you make it that way

If you give everyone 1.2 stats, if they stay away from each other, and set it to 1.0 if they hang around for a given amount of time

It's the same if everyones stats are 1.0 if they stay away from each other, and set it to, 0.8 if they hang around for a given amount of time

no matter how you turn it, it stays the same

[limber hull]

the best way i saw comfort being done is a minor system which buffs growth rates dependent on certain factors, increases elder health, power and longevity and increases the rate/quality of perks. No damage, health, stam or any other stat increases, purely for impacting the self.

Varied diets, playing in groups as pack animals, remaining healthy (good food, water and health), remaining solitary as more solo animals, nesting, so on = more comfort

Mixpacking, megapacking, poor diet, overpacking, starving/dehydrating, constantly damaged, broken bones, so on = less comfort

Basically, all comfort does is impact your dinosaur's development, not its current stats, and exists as mainly buffs for playing well, rather than debuffs that just suck to have

[limber hull]

I just don't want stats impacted at all

[sage yew]

you statement was now:
"mixpack = poor diet" how

[limber hull]

What

????

[sage yew]

"Mixpacking, megapacking, poor diet"

[limber hull]

Please attempt reading haha

[limber hull]

All factors that impact your comfort negatively

I don't know what's hard to understand

It doesn't mean that megapacking = bad diet

That's absurd

[sage yew]

okay, we are currently talking about herbi/carni mixpacking - nothing else

maybe you'd like to explain your approach more, because I'm not getting it

[remote dock]

megapacking should not be universally the same number as well. deinos count should differ from raptor

[sage yew]

no please, megapacks are a different topic, that's only making this conversation more complicated as it already is

The question is: how do you prevent herbis and carnis from forming an beneficial alliance

[lapis swallow]

That would work

Just make it that a big monke runs at mixpackers and gives them a headfracture with a club

[tall hearth]

To add to your idea, I think hypers, once they come out, should be able to detect/smell any and all mixpacks from anywhere on the map no matter the level.

The apex hypers go after the apex mixpacks, the mid tier hypers go after the mid and below mixes. Hyper carno (just the first example I thought of) I'm sure will be terrifying, and making it the perfect tool to deal with mid tier and below mixpacks would incentivize not wanting to be together in case a player achieves becoming a hyper, or even other strains. Mixpacks would then be the first targets theyd probably go for, as that's the most easily detectable food source to keep them surviving as long as they can.

[sage yew]

what are apex hypers?

[tall hearth]

Giga, rex, spino, etc becoming their respective hyper strains.

[true haven]

Its going to be a nightmare

[burnt bone]

That has potential, the main thing would be to make sure the apexes don’t punch up too far or punch down too far.

[sage yew]

I'm still not getting it

[burnt bone]

The apex strain part or what?

[sage yew]

yep. Like how is making anything stronger supposed to help

[burnt bone]

Rex turns into hypo after doing a bunch of stuff. Now it’s much stronger, but is constantly starving or about to starve to death. So to extend its life, you must constantly kill. What’s the most efficient thing to kill? Large groups of bad players. Which is exactly what mega/mixpacks are. So we can utilize strains to at least momentarily reduce them.
Then I have 2 solutions that stop them from becoming the mixpack themselves:
1: you can’t log out as one, if you do, you die. That way you can’t store a strain.
2: extreme hunger forces you to constantly kill and eat, but joining those massive groups makes you very easy to avoid, so you die quickly.

@sage yew

[sage yew]

So they are not only the strongest, but also forced to kill everything on sight?

That seems to be flawed by design and I don't know if "hypers" (elders? is this something different?) will be this honourable

[faint folio]

Hypers are different from elders I think

[gentle flint]

I think they’re already a “thing” so it’s not really avoidable?

[cyan flame]

Yeah, those are vastly different.

@sage yewI believe hypers are meant to be a temporary powertrip. You're stupidly powerful, almost impossible to kill, but you will inevitably starve.

[sage yew]

That sounds horrible
what is supposed to stop these hypers? Hypers+? And whats then? Hypers++?

[urban flax]

starvation

[gentle flint]

Starvation or logging I suppose

[faint folio]

Though elders also I thought had a cool down until they die from old age. Logout killing strains is an interesting idea, though

[sage yew]

I really don't get it
okay, they starve, but what is this power good for

[gentle flint]

Terrorizing the server temporarily XD

[sage yew]

....and that's making everything better?

[faint folio]

That and strains are supposed to be ridiculously hard to get. And I think (hope) they unlock per life... So you have to do the whole grinding process again for another if yours dies

[gentle flint]

It’s more of a lore implication thing I believe?

[faint folio]

I think it's meant as like a boss fight

[cyan flame]

Temporary power trip, that's the point. They're not meant to be a normal playable, it's a once in a blue moon event more or less.

[sage yew]

maybe devs have something in mind that I can't grasp right now, as I have not experienced it first hand, but for now I really don't like this idea

[gentle flint]

There’s more information floating around in the server about them honestly, there’s different strains and whatnot

[cyan flame]

Rumor also once had it that the process might change, or be so tricky that you can never really tell what exactly triggered the change. So you can't "farm" the strains, or you're not supposed to at least.

[faint folio]

I'd think it also makes life easier for smalls-- they can hide, whereas an apex like rex? Not so much

[gentle flint]

I highly doubt they’re coming any time soon though tbh, not before some more of the roster is worked out

[feral solstice]

Strains are basically a power-up that requires a ridiculous amount of grinding so you can become the Monster from Evolve.

[burnt bone]

Yeah hypers are meant to only be temporary murder machines. Personally, I’d just make them VERY loud so they can be avoidable, but playing dumb or staying in a group with the mixpack scent would make you easy prey.

[sage yew]

I just can't imagine that this would enhance anyones experience

[burnt bone]

It gives something for apexes to fear.

It’s like adding a tier above apex that’s temporary

[gentle flint]

It gives a goal with an intense reward, and causes people to go about things more warily in a horror game. Plus yeah, for the dinos that can “never die” it provides a nice “wipe” like.. for example, stegos right now have nothing that really challenges them other than good deinos and cliffs XD
That’s just for now obviously but for things like that

[sage yew]

okay and what will herbis receive? The thought that a hyper rampaging in a herd does not sound encouraging

[faint folio]

Honestly herbis have so few mechanics planned. They really need some love. But yeah hyper in a herd sounds terrible

[sage yew]

I fully understand the "having a goal" idea, but does it need to be this radical

[faint folio]

But hypers at least right now are a carni only mechanic

[gentle flint]

There’s other strains I believe so maybe one of those is more herbi driven

[burnt bone]

herbie strains do need to exist

[sage yew]

The bullys of the game will receive even more power.... to correct the gameplay

[burnt bone]

They could turn down the hypers to be a bit weaker, but there are also many other strains like neuros and tissos.

[sage yew]

like what?

[urban flax]

In theory nothing stops a herbivore from becoming neuro or tisso

[sage yew]

nneuros? tissos?

[urban flax]

Neuro strain = big brain energy, can literally call down lightning on its opponents, but physically weak
Tisso strain = stealthy, fast, possibly toxic

[burnt bone]

Hyper = super strong but hungry
Neuro = smart, we don’t know the down side.
Tisso = we don’t know too much.

[sage yew]

like isn't a T-rex already enough...

why does it needs to be so over the top

[faint folio]

Hyper is short for hyperendocrine. Aka they have increased hormones that ramp up aggression and hunger drive, aka starving, but very strong dinos

[gentle flint]

Again, it’s lore things I believe. Part of the story the game is trying to tell

[faint folio]

I forget neuros full name, but the third is tissoplastic. Which I assume from the name involves shape shifting or something or mimicry

But that's just my theory

[sage yew]

maybe it plays out, but for now I'm just terrified
not to mention the impacts on gameplay, where people are just focused to get there

[faint folio]

That's assuming someone knows the unlock... If it's a bunch of random difficult stuff thrown together that has to be done in a specific, changing order... It would be very hard to replicate

[gentle flint]

I think they were in legacy for a while weren’t they?

[feral solstice]

iirc you have to forfeit your elder growth a certain number of times, follow a specific perk and diet path as well to even think of unlocking a chance to become a Strain

[sage yew]

even now people refuse to play, without being an adult
okay, they're requirements, stuff to be done to get there, might be hard, ....I'm just speachless

sounds so "meta"

a freakin raptor is supposed to be scary

from that point of view it's just a joke

[feral solstice]

My guy. Even elders are intended to be really challenging to play as.

Imagine trying to unlock strains at that point

I don’t think they’re going to be so easy to pull if elders are going to be very challenging, and also need to become an elder a certain amount of times

[sage yew]

challenging, in a sense, that you need to constantly kill? That does not sound so bad if you wan't to go into a killingspree

[gentle flint]

The amount of time to sink into unlocking the chance at it is crazy enough to dissuade a lot of people

[proud coral]

The thing with Hypers is that no matter what, you will starve. Their metabolism gets too fast eventually. And it's not necessarily effortless since

1. You're massive
2. You're ultra loud
3. Things can literally just go the opposite direction of you

[feral solstice]

You have to DIE of old age as an elder

Not by anything else for it to count

[faint folio]

Eh... The raptors themselves aren't really intended to be particularly scary solo. Maybe for humans. Not so much for a rex

[feral solstice]

So that means if you work hard to be an elder, your progress to dying of old age will be erased if you die of anything other than old age.

That’s a challenge of itself.

[faint folio]

And unlocking elder isn't necessarily about killing as much as possible

[sage yew]

you will die anyway, no matter what you do, basically by design
that does not justifies throwing the whole balancing over board

[proud coral]

If you're thinking about the super generic OP "admin dino OC pls don't steal" Hypers from legacy, they're not gonna be like that 😛

Actual Hypers/strains will have quirks

[sage yew]

maybe I'm just too old for that... I was hoping to have epic fights with an T-Rex, not with some science fiction meta hyper dino with lasers and rocket launchers

I'm not even into this perks idea, duno... maybe the game won't be something for me

[proud coral]

They're not gonna have lasers or rockets And you can still have epic fights with a T.Rex. A fight with a Hyper isn't really a fight, rather trying to escape and live.

Though there has been mention of an "Anti-Hyper Gun" humans can use.

Not a normal gun per se, but it works

[sage yew]

...

[proud coral]

If strains end up working out how they've mentioned, they're gonna be v e r y rare. Like people taking out their phones and recording it rare.

[sage yew]

you guys are just making fun of me, right?
it's just a joke, right?

[proud coral]

No? 😮

[sage yew]

I'm... just... no........

[proud coral]

It's okay to not like the idea 🤷

[sage yew]

guess so

[proud coral]

One good thing is that strains are w a y off, so no need to worry about em yet 😛

[sage yew]

I was just hoping for a more grounded experience
does anyone remember the game Dino Crisis?

An epic masterpiece. With part 3 they went into space and you fough alien dinos.... and it was just a dumpsterfire

[gentle flint]

I doubt hypers are coming for years tbh with the way things are looking so it’s not something to worry about now lol

[sage yew]

it just throws everything over of what I thought about this game

I feel so broken

[proud coral]

I mean there's always custom servers that can disable that stuff <:P And plus from what we know, there's not really much sci-fi elements. The only actual sci-fi like thing I've seen mention of is the Anti-Hyper Gun which I wanna say is more like an emplacement than a carry-around gun.

[sage yew]

dinos on steroids is pretty scifi

and I don't think it will improve turning off features, if the game becomes designed around this concept

why should anyone play a pachy, if he can become a giganatosaurusrex as well

[proud coral]

Not long ago, Dondi was actually talking about how The Isle has always and will always be designed to be molded by players to shape their own experiences by enabling/disabling/changing all sorts of stuff. So I doubt it'd be too big of a change to disable them 😛

[burnt bone]

This game is already kinda JP with a bunch of other genetic abominations, look at tribals in general.

[proud coral]

[tall hearth]

Community servers will for sure have the option to turn off all the sci fi stuff beyond regular human and dinos, so if officials arent your taste you could always find an unofficial server to play on

Tho that comes with the challenge of finding a good one without some power tripping admin, so good luck on that end too lol

[gentle flint]

“Dinos on steroids” sounds sci-fi but muscle hypertrophy disease (idk the real name for it) is an actual thing

[feral solstice]

Because either it’s ridiculously hard to even have a chance to earn, or they just like it over Pachy lol

[proud coral]

I play Ptera sometimes even though Carno is much stronger because Ptera is lil birb thing :3

[tall hearth]

Ptera is a fun playstyle.

I for one will absolutely play small and mid size dinos the most often. I enjoy being afraid of things, it's a fun layer to add to gameplay

[sage yew]

that's the point, it shouldn't be just a fun layer, but actually provide a whole experience. But instead carnis receive all the attention

[proud coral]

Glances at Pachy's current state

[gentle flint]

I don’t think that’s necessarily an issue with the mechanic so much as it is favoritism by the devs XD

[burnt bone]

Here’s the thing, being the strain Rex takes a LOT OF TIME and you get like maybe a hour of fun, 2 if you’re lucky.

For a rough idea, you would need to grow a Rex like 4 times and doing specific things to be able to grow a 5th Rex and become a hyper. And each grow takes like 5-6 hours.

Meanwhile, the small guy has lived like 5 full lives in the time it took you to grow once. The pachy has grown up, had a family, fought enemies, traveled the map, died like 10 times, and gotten most its perks by the time the Rex is half way there to growing its 3rd Rex.

Then don’t forget, that Rex still has to hunt and be hunted as a juvie, making smalls the bane of its existence for a good chunk of its life.

[proud coral]

Also been said in the past that achieving a strain is also planned to just be obscure; you may not even realize how exactly you got it. And if people found a way to game the system, Dondi would literally just change the process again

Though this was long ago and some of it may have been exaggerated, but the idea is still there.

[low canopy]

pachy gameplay:
grow to adult
realise that nobody else on the server plays as one
cry out of lonelyness and go play proper playable after suiciding

[sage yew]

assuming that this process isn't just tedious but entertaining, why should anyone play something else

[proud coral]

From what I've seen about it, it sounds more like

• Grow to adult
• Find Carno
• Ruin it's day in the meanest way

[gentle flint]

Idk where you’re playing but the pachy herds have gotten huge with this update LOL

[proud coral]

Because it's really friggn' hard and not everyone wants to do it

[low canopy]

as roster moves on many of the current playables become redundant

[burnt bone]

Wrong, enjoy the solitude, take it as a challenge destined upon you, face the challenge head on and THRIVE

[low canopy]

I have done it countless times, no need to do it anymore

[burnt bone]

Then take a new challenge. And if you have played every Dino, you got your $20 worth in a game lmao

[proud coral]

Like yeah, I could grow a T.Rex and be a huge menace, but (in an ideal scenario for the game) it takes a long time and is a very difficult process.

I wanna play Oviraptor and eat egg instead >:)

[burnt bone]

No game has an infinite playtime, eventually you will get bored.

[proud coral]

☣️ 👀

[sage yew]

sigh... Im depressed

[proud coral]

https://tenor.com/view/pikachu-sadness-pet-head-caterpie-sad-gif-16792400

[feral solstice]

I don’t think it’s that deep, bro.

[indigo mural]

Thank you

[cyan flame]

I'll say that while that idea is interesting, it seems to be at risk of returning bucking to being a "no good unless desperate" deal. You don't want to go back to "don't use the counter you're meant to because it might do you more harm than good".

[sage yew]

can't be bucking just a passive thing?
why the hassle of pressing E

[tall hearth]

Pressing E isnt a hassle

It's just a button

[sage yew]

but why necessary. I mean, why shouldn't you buck

[tall hearth]

Some players may not want to auto lose stam if they dont want to. They may want to adjust themselves to be in a better position overall. It should be player choice to buck, every time.

Thatd be like your dino automatically attacking when your hitbox collides with another dino.

The devs want YOU to play the game, not the game play itself

[cyan flame]

What we need is an actual interaction, buck/brace or something. Some form of back/forth that'd allow both sides to try and outsmart the other sort of.

[tall hearth]

Plus, since u6 the change to bucking, players cant buck when they're out of stam anymore. Players may want to save stam for specific instances too, and an auto buck would ruin that player choice

[sage yew]

not gonna argue with that, just the question why you wouldn buck to get that ducker off

[sage yew]

this sounds good

[cyan flame]

Well, it wasn't really worth it before this patch, so at that time it'd be even worse if it was forced.

[sage yew]

but now it seems there is not a reason to not buck, as small raptors don't stay on you like adults do

[cyan flame]

True, but now that you can't buck when out of stam, you might want to not buck at one point to try and save stam for either attacks or to buck when there's more than one omni on you for example.

[sage yew]

fair

[gentle flint]

I don’t like bucking lmao, saves Stam when I could just knock them on a tree for the same effect. Or to turn so they get launched off a cliff

[tall hearth]

See? Theres another player who wouldn't want auto bucking

[gentle flint]

And not everyone knows how to buck ironically, which is to the Omni’s advantage so they should be able to take what they can get lmao

[rare fractal]

Because it’s an action that takes the place of other defensive actions like attacking, it needs to be significantly better than it is designed as currently but I wouldn’t criticize it on the grounds of it being a redundant input

[sick summit]

guys why i cant found official servers

bide türk varmı varsa dm gelsin lütfen

[rare fractal]

Official servers for legacy don't exist

[sick summit]

so how i can join evrima server?

[sick summit]

can u tell me pls

[rare fractal]

Swap your beta in steam

[sick summit]

thank you so much dude

[rare fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/i-got-you-thumbs-up-good-great-excellent-gif-12640146

[limber hull]

Strains are meant to be more of a horror thing than anything, I don't think any of them have been portrayed as particularly viable, they always have a cost to their strength. Hypers have basically zero stealth, they waltz around with massive stomps and a gigantic body that's near impossible to hide, and their starvation rate makes it that unless they can steal, kill or find bodies, they're dead. They're supposed to be a fun power trip for the player and a memorable horror experience for other animals

[limber hull]

also the concept that pachy, one of the most powerful animals in the game atm, is not a proper playable is really funny to me

[sage yew]

I get the concept of it and I understand the fundamentals
I just don't understand this bigger, meaner and "just more" trend, as a T-Rex is already intimidating, or a raptor pack, at least it should be ....now this game basically says:, "no it's not. Look, this is scary"

look, I'm not twelve anymore and you can not win me over by making stuff simply bigger. Especially if you can't convey the scare of a 2m tall murder beast with 15cm long claws, but need a super mutant killer Rex on freaking crystal meth.

[cyan flame]

Honestly, the hypers aren't really scary, now the neuros or tissos have more potential.

[limber hull]

the game isn't trying to make it that hypos are the only scary thing, but the idea of a hypo is that it's beyond a normal creature, it won't die to things that would otherwise kill it, it's a giant waltzing unstoppable image of death

it also is probably the only thing that will end up competing with sauropods, although given the immense size of sauropods, even that is questionable if they'll have the advantage

it's one of those things you kinda just have to run from

fighting back is hard, if not impossible

[proud coral]

Um

*Hyper ☝️🤓

[sage yew]

I don't know if your claims are based on facts or your expectations

[limber hull]

it's based on what we know about hypers

[sage yew]

if you run from a T-rex or a T-rex 2.0, there is no real difference

[limber hull]

except the T-Rex 2.0 is a giant armoured fiend with an earsplitting roar that scares the hell out of T-Rex 1.0

it's just kinda cool tbh

[sage yew]

"cool", okay, but nothing more

[proud coral]

Also (if done right) extremely rare so you get this "WOAH" moment.

[sage yew]

like I said, I understand the concept

[limber hull]

you're looking for insane depth in a mechanic that's designed for people to have a moment of unbridled terror, or moments of unmatched power. It's pure fun

All it is is just a fun mechanic that adds more to the expeience

[sage yew]

I can't agree on this, as you definitely don't need anything that just becomes absurdly bigger. You can already do this with a normal rex

[limber hull]

So what about neuros?

The genius-level, kinda-gooey, EMP-blasting, weather-changing(?), mind-manipulating abomination

[proud coral]

T i s s o s

[sage yew]

why not let it shoot lasers out of its eyes as well
trying to convey people by making already scary things, like a freaking murder beast of a dinosaur, just bigger... that's cheap

like with the movie independence day, they all went bigger in the second iteration and it was garbage

[agile roost]

#general-feedback message
Again, Deinosuchus was so large, it's body heat entering and left at a slow rate, leading to it being quite stable. So it didn't need to bathe in the sun like today's crocodilians. @north night

[limber hull]

okay but a neuro isn't bigger

if anything, it's smaller and weaker than a regular version of the animal

[proud coral]

Neuros are like mages basically. Freaky weird abilities but they're (somewhat literally) jelly.

[limber hull]

a regular rex is likely going to demolish a neuro rex in basic one on one fights

[sage yew]

bigger, stronger, faster... call it like you which, my point is still valid

[limber hull]

it's none of those things

you're complaining about hypers being bigger, stronger and faster, but neuros are an entirely different beast

[proud coral]

Technically you could use this argument for other regular creatures as well 😛 Like why have T.Rex? Alberto is already scary, Rex is just that but bigger.

[sage yew]

and I agree on that. Raptors could be used as the main antagonist as well. But to be honest, going up till giga, spino and rex I don't think it would be bad as they kinda fit the realm of dinosaur "lore"

[limber hull]

i mean, hypers, neuros and tissos are all a part of the Isle lore

they're an integral key part

[sage yew]

I did not meant it that way, I mean that they're a accepted by culture and people have an understanding of their roles they once probably filled

my point is, you are not depended in any meaning, of making stuff bigger to convey ideas and less is maybe more

[limber hull]

i mean, our omniraptor is very purposely fictionalised and designed to resemble a fictional, villainous raptor

[sage yew]

but that's, like I said, accepted by culture - so I go at least here with the flow of peoples expectations and I personally don't dislike some aspects of creative freedom to give a bit more room for this

[north night]

ohh ty

[agile roost]

Anytime :')

[low canopy]

note the word "atm"

[tawdry oyster]

@somber elm Possible it was a hacker

[somber elm]

I remember scrolling past a video with an adult pachy being drowned by a deino so idk I felt it might be a bug

[burnt bone]

No, sub deinos just have ungodly land stamina and speed. You can literally drag someone like 100 meters with it.

(Unless y’all mean the lunge alone did that much damage, then idk)

[lapis swallow]

More than 100

[knotty wyvern]

@frosty ember I personally agree with you. I think the removal of global chat options on unofficial servers has broken the community aspect of the game. What made the isle so fun was the guilds and communities it fostered. That is close to gone now.

[lapis swallow]

It was a chat simulator

[knotty wyvern]

@oblique creek I’m worried Evrima is going to become like Legacy again; with hitboxes so broken you can’t battle creatures.

[lapis swallow]

Not to mention the fact that you are able to call out your killers location with global chat

[knotty wyvern]

I personally never experienced that often in the 4 years I played Legacy so I can’t comment on it being a chat sim.

As for the locations, that’s why I think only unofficial servers should be able to allow it, since they often have rules against it 👍

Community makes indie games thrive. Take away a community’s ability to fully mingle in game, and the magic won’t be there imo.

[tall hearth]

That was pretty much every unofficial server. "Hey rexes food here" "dont go down x direction, you'll be hunted by a group of mean dinos" or the most common: 50 people sitting at hidden or great falls all doing nothing but talking about how their irl day was. It was chat room city.

I do not care if it comes back for unofficials, but if I'm remembering right devs said something about it not being a toggle able feature and it would have to be modded in. Not sure if that's still their idea, but I'm ok with that when modding support drops.

[sage yew]

Such stuff usually happens after people start to get bored and try to seek other ways to gain entertainment. Which can be an indicator, that the game isn't challenging or demanding enough.

[knotty wyvern]

The only time the game becomes a chat room is when the server isn’t popular enough or the game is boring. Two problems which can be solved.

[tall hearth]

Legacy was pretty boring so that tracks lol

[remote dock]

just to add my two sense. this game is the isle. at the end of the day. its not about conventially accepted dinosuars. the hypers have been a thing for a looong time. this is nothing new. expecting them to not have them or acting like there a disappointment just means your newer to the community cause they did exist in legacy. but if i remember right only admins had access to them. but acting like this wasnt the plan for the game for a very long time and isnt directly tied to the isles lore aint it chief

[sage yew]

Considering that ideas constantly pop up during development and get dismissed later on is not so uncommon in early access games. For example had DayZ thermal vision scopes at one point and got them removed later on, because they just broke the game. Even tho they ware super rare, just the existence made the experience pretty unpleasing. As many people only played to get them, which was pretty annoying.

My hopes are not high up, but at least shattered. Just the thought that scaling anything up to improve the experience feels just wrong. Especially that high tier apex predators are already really much to create a hostile environment. The mentioned approach of a somewhat grinding experience seems not pleasant and could direct the gameplay in a predictable way. Because nothing else matters, but just being high up. At worst it will create a gap between people who will, and who will not grind.

At least I have for me some reasons to be disappointed about such an approach. Maybe it will all work out once it's done, but I'm sure that it won't work like balancing force that will equal everything out, like some people mentioned it.

The current approach with realism in mind, compared to other titles, got me The Isle hooked. Not because I can play a T-Rex or anything bigger, but because everything within it, had it's place, or at least the idea, that at some point, everything will get to it.

But whatever, only time will tell

[wintry mica]

ºk

[sage yew]

https://youtu.be/I4EVCoHlWCw
The Isle - 2030

[plucky mantle]

When will beipei come out

[merry mantle]

Don’t know, no ETA

[remote dock]

The thing is though, that has always been the isles direction. Yes things change but this has been a thing for a long time. they were a thing in legacy and were only removed whem work on legacy was discontinued. The plan has never not been for them to exist. If anything you then had unrealistic hopes. Its just like people who dont want humans and act like humans werent the basis for the game. Yes theyve never been added but they have been the plan since the start. Thats why the isle logo is a rex skull with a human skull. As to say, if your hopes were for them to not exist, they are fundementally part of the isles planned devolpment. So about as unrealistic of a hope as people wanting them to not add humans. In short, if your hopes were shattered, you kinda did it to yourself

As for balancing. It helps give the game a much needed end game. And also, this assumes people only play the strongest things. Hypsi and Dryo are under played because Hypsi has 0 motivation to play. Start as an adult. So no motivation to grow. Plus 20 hp so literally beyond useless outside of trolling. Except the spit isnt even that great so....and dryo is just dumb. has no real benefit since it doesnt have its burrow ability. But Tenos and carnos are popular picks. Utahs arent getting picked as much right now due to there broken hitbox not pairing great with the broken hitboxes of carno and pachy. Deinos are seen alot but thats cause they have a guarenteed to be there spot being lemon fields river. Yes apexes are played a lot but your acting like people only want to play the best of the best which isnt even true. Im a deino player because I like water species, im actually excited for Beipi so that i can have an alternatibe to deino. If we re being literal. The grinding gap exists. 5 hour stego beats 1 hour utah everytime. You get what you put in. But thats not a bad thing. Why shouldnt the game reward players for playing long. Its better than uncapped stats or a dead endgame. Plus as other people mentioned. Hypers arent permenant as your more likely to starve to death. Your loud so people can just, you know, not go the direction your in. and again. With the amount of time a hyper takes. most ppl will go through multiple dinos b4 a hyper exists

Yeah the isle had realism. But you had to know it wasnt total realism just from the human involvement

the entire anti hyper arguement it looks like boils down to nobody will play other species. except people still play ptera despite its garbage flying mechanic. People play carno and teno over steg and deino. people still play other dinos. the least played dinos, hypsi and dryo, are that way with good reason

[tawdry oyster]

@remote dock Pretty sure dryo’s will get burrows but instead of a one small hole, they’ll be able to build a whole tunnel system, meaning that when you run in you can exit somewhere else

[eager parrot]

That is going to be amazing, will definitely spice the fat dryos gameplay up abit since its harder to mess with the carnis now

[eager parrot]

Just stumbled upon a Cheater forum with a the isle thread

Confirmed my suspicions that EAC free version is used and according to the cheaters on the forum it is unable to detect any type of cheat which is currently used and the only thing that can get them banned is other players who report you. "No, they use free version of EAC. EAC itself might detect some generic intrusion but that's about it. They dont have insights panel not their own server collects this info, so the only thing that can notice your cheats is other player and report you." found on the cheater forum

Instant Disconnect is also one of their tools so if you see someone disappear while you are fighting them or they are running away be suspicious as it seems that is the most likely cause

Not sure if this applys to themselves or other players though as I have heard claims that cheaters can boot people so maybe that is what Instant Disconnect means

[urban flax]

Maybe you should bring that up to the devs, possibly give the forum's address
They may be more motivated to change their anti-cheat if they can read people bragging about its uselessness on forums

[eager parrot]

I will do that now

They are literally talking trash about the games cheat and there is about 10 people on it asking where to find them

I found 3 websites from 1 search selling cheats around the same price of 35 usd

Seems to be the only ones who would I send the links to

[eager parrot]

I have messaged admins before but never got a response although that was on different topics

[urban flax]

I think your best chance is to catch a dev when he's online on Isle Discussion and message him about that

[eager parrot]

Okay

Kind of annoying but if the oppurtunity appear I will do it

[urban flax]

Or you can dm Punchpacket

[eager parrot]

Sure ill try that idk who that is but ill find them

[urban flax]

Punchpacket is the community manager and the only dev you're allowed to ping or dm

[eager parrot]

Just Dmed him hopefully something useful can come from it kind of have doubts as from what I have read the cheaters think they are basically invincible to everything but the players themselves who report

Doubt they will upgrade the anticheat as it costs money

[urban flax]

I don't think money is an issue
What is is possibly the fact they don't consider managing an anti-cheat this early in development is necessary or useful

[eager parrot]

Maybe when they come back from break they will realise the state the game has gotten into with the cheaters, I think a better anti-cheat would certainly be useful in keeping the majority of the community here lol, keep seeing more and more often the general chats are filled with cheating complaints

[urban flax]

Funnily enough I don't think I've ever seen a cheater in-game
They seem to all cater to the NA servers and never go to EU

[eager parrot]

Yeah it is the NA servers

I am from australia but I mainly play NA as I like the playerbase more

Not nearly as many on the AU ones

[desert quarry]

@obtuse quail I see you 🙂

[urban flax]

@tepid urchin There are already fake dinosaurs in The Isle, like troodon and omniraptor (and arguably spino too)
But let's hope there's never gonna be an indominus rex

[limber hull]

Let's not forget the strains

[tepid urchin]

Troodon is a real dinosaur

[limber hull]

Look at The Isle's troodon and try to tell me that's real lol

[urban flax]

It's not a valid genus, so not really
It's a chimera

[tepid urchin]

It's way too off from the real ones

[clever anchor]

@narrow nova I like that idea! I have always thought that maybe Generation 1 humans could make their own huts or tents. Would be nice if that was implimented

[narrow nova]

Glad you like it
I wish humans could repair their buildings, at least fix fences and gates.

That way at least their base won't be overrun by dinosaurs

[clever anchor]

Yeah

[solemn bloom]

paleo is muted and wanted me to tell u that the devs do listen to theur playerbase

L bro deleted

[sage yew]

without question

[azure bolt]

@vocal pumice Im not sure how relevant this is, but couldnt an herbivore hide by a river and just drain nearby crocs hunger? or maybe it can start small and get larger but the herbivore is also easily sensed by the carnivores the longer they stay around? to make it harder to camp rivers and starve crocs (if this would even be an issue, since they could just reduce the range of this potential mechanic for deinosuchus)

i think it would be a tricky one to implement, because on one hand stalking nearby prey by the river and waiting for them to take a drink or try to cross is a big part of deinosuchus's hunting style, so it would have to be dynamic or range-based?

another thing is chases. i havent played much of the other carnivores but arent chases a big thing that can take a while? that could end up starving carnivores that are already starving while they chase their food

[urban flax]

proximity-based buffs or debuffs have a very low chance of functioning how they're intended

[azure bolt]

yeah thats what im thinking it just sounds too iffy and frustrating

i would hate to be a carnivore running after prey, desperate for food, and due to my proximity to them, my hunger depletes even faster

it could make long chases unrewarding for the carnivore

especially if the prey gets away

[urban flax]

Imagine being a omni pack trying to kill a stego and dying of hunger because it takes too long to bleed out

[lapis swallow]

*Omni pack. this would make attrition hunters very bad

[azure bolt]

so all in all, bad idea?

[lapis swallow]

Yes

Pretty abusable and the wrong solution to this problem

[sage yew]

Well, only if you think of immediate consequences, as any debuff could take effect after a given amount of time, so that exploits become less likely.

For example a (hidden) meter, which needs to be fillen first, before any debuff takes place. Balanced in such a way, that 15-30 min conflicts do not have any effects, but if you decide to play with friends for an evening over some hours, it would become impossible to avoid debuffs, if you desire to mixpack

[azure bolt]

is mixpacking even a problem? ive seen it once and it was a useless joke (i was a hypsi and just hung around some crocs for a bit and then died to a stego)

[lapis swallow]

Yes, I have many mixpacker encounters. Atleast 25% of my normal encounters with groups

[urban flax]

No matter how you look at it, it doesn't work. Because if it's on a timer then all you have to do is to split from your friends every 30 minutes and reset it all

[sage yew]

the claim, that it's "Not possible" is only a matter implementation, the lazy way will be obviously not practical, but with some investment totally doable

[urban flax]

I don't see mixpackers often, but I firmly believe there are "healthy" forms of mixpacking. There was that one time hen, as a ptera, I flew over a river full of deinos, so I lured a boar to them. When they killed it, they alloed me to eat the scraps.

[sage yew]

avoidable, since you can alter the reset speed of this timer
simply walking away from anyone for like 5 min, should not work like that

[urban flax]

Well proximity debuffs is the lazy way. The more thoughtful, and functional, way, would be to balance the game in a way that makes mixpacking non-optimal, rather than artificially fixing it with debuffs.

[sage yew]

some kind of mixpacks, yes. But currently mixpacking omnis with carnos is just cancer

[azure bolt]

this just sounds like a plausible natural occurrence so thats cool, but at the same time youre only around them briefly for that exchange

[sage yew]

Well yes, that's the most complicated way of em all
"simply" make this game functionally organic and everything plays out at the end... that's the best way, yes, I agree

but how do you design such a thing?

[azure bolt]

instead of a timer reset what if it was a gauge and the higher it went the hungrier you got around them (while also out of combat, to avoid chases counting towards this?)
so that walking away for 5 minutes would only reset 5 minutes worth of gauge

[urban flax]

During update 3 I had a fun experience involving omnis and carnos working together.
Basically me and my omni pack were trying to kill a deino in a river, and we came across a carno pack. When we realized they were after the same deino as well, we decided to coopoerate

[urban flax]

Woah
I'd need a good brainstorm and a team of designers to think of a solution

[sage yew]

the last days it seemed like mixpacking becomes the new meta again ...spotted so many carno and omnis mixpacks, propably because omnis got tired by getting killed by carnos and carnos started to show mercy - at least I guess

[azure bolt]

maybe addressing the root of the problem? why are people mixpacking?

[lapis swallow]

Because its op

[sage yew]

exactly, that's what I've tried to say
without any more insight into the development process, it's nearly impossible to come up with a better solution

and from my point of view, is proximity buff totally feasible

[urban flax]

Because diversity makes you stronger. It's the exact same reason why when playing a RPG, you pick a rogue, a warrior and a mage instead of 3 mages.

[urban flax]

Feasible but not beneficial

It would most likely do more harm than good

[lapis swallow]

But how do you make a proximity debuff work (without easy going around it)?

[azure bolt]

proximity debuff based on a gauge that increases the debuff's effects the higher it goes up, and depletes at the same rate
and being in combat during chases or stalking something should be identifiable for flags

[sage yew]

if it's done wrong, but I don't view it from that perspective

it can be used for good

it can

[azure bolt]

i dont think theres any easy ways to abuse this

if different species want to mixpack but theyre forced to stay away from each other, it'll hinder their teamwork skills

[lapis swallow]

Just leave before the raise kicks in and reset the timer (then the timer would have to be looked into).

[azure bolt]

there is no timer

[lapis swallow]

Because you cant make it instantly

[azure bolt]

when youre close, gauge starts filling
when youre away, gauge unfills at the same rate (or a slower rate?)

and it would be percent based so no large raises to play around

[lapis swallow]

That would make stalking your prey very weird for ambushers (who are sometimes very close to their prey)

[sage yew]

I once suggested the idea, of a "territory call", to further delay the effects of proximity buffs, that would also alarm other players and this usable effect would become more usueless, after 1 or 2 usages against any "cooperativ" mixpacks - like friends over teamspeak

[azure bolt]

i just said give a flag for "stalking" so that it doesnt trigger. or reduce the proximity range for these guys (like deinosuchus)

[sage yew]

but with a gauge for everyone, so others can't simply fillup the gouge that others already filled

[lucid mauve]

In legacy it was no mixpacking on officials ? or am i wrong

Tho it was a rule

[azure bolt]

player id gauges

[sage yew]

yes, that's what I've ment

[azure bolt]

alr

[lapis swallow]

Honestly, making no mixpacking the only rule of officials would make the game 10 times more enjoyable. But we would need more admins tho

[azure bolt]

i like the idea of no rules on official servers

[lucid mauve]

Yea, i tho that was already in. I know people still gonna buse it, but if i die 1 out of 10 times to mixpackers. Well i can live with that

[azure bolt]

if they want to discourage mixpacking, then a good debuff proximity system like what i described should work

[lapis swallow]

20-25% of my player group encounters as a ptera are mixpackers

[azure bolt]

the simple addition of a gauge thats percent based will discourage most of it from happening

[sage yew]

only enjoyable if administrated? I rather prefer other solutions, as they will be always a gray zone that applies sometimes, but not everytime and you are on the mercy of admins