general-feedback-discussion

[lapis swallow]

It isnt

Look at this

Its just a new map

Not a new game, yeez

[potent arrow]

Before Jace joined the team (a level designer), dondi (who is not a level designer) was the one who was working on the map. Since Spiro already had so many alterations before Jace joined the team it wouldn't make any sense for him to try to fix it.

Making a completely new map was the most logical course of action

np

👍

[icy lion]

Gateway is replacing Isla Spiro, not the evrima beta branch, tl:dr

Evrima is planned to have more maps as well, originally we were meant to get Spero before Spiro

[limber hull]

EVRIMA has needed a new map for a LONG time. Lots of new features and roster additions simply CANT work on the current map

[lapis swallow]

Which ark map did Jace help build again?

[icy lion]

Faith

Maybe a couple more, but that's the one featured on his ArtStation

[lapis swallow]

I thought it was one of the official ones

[icy lion]

Maybe? Idk the creators for any of the official ones

No, that's v3 and Thenyaw

[lapis swallow]

I just looked at faith and it looks good

@ivory palm the lag would make the servers crash even more

[ivory palm]

oh ok

[gaunt canopy]

If it can cach a Gali I would guess theyed give allo similar legacy ambush mechanic because I can’t see it running that fast for long so it would have to be similar to legacy were it ambushes and then sprints and then just normal runs at normal speed and then you ovcors run out of stam as some point

[jagged jewel]

how? only jace and visualtech are working on the map

everyone else is still working on the rest of the game

[proud coral]

A better map is not only something MANY have been asking for, but something we need

We literally weren't even meant to have the map we have now in the first place.

[jagged jewel]

Apologies. I think that the map can take its time, it's the one thing I can see taking long.

Yeah

[dire ridge]

Stop playing it JUST because it has more dino and play something else ?

[sage yew]

I kinda don't understand the fuzz about the new map. Is it really that grate?
Will it have new mechanics? For example interactive plants with collision? Or is the new map a gateway to UE5? Or what?

For now it feels more to me, like opium to the masses

[lapis swallow]

it will come with migration (I think) and its really great

[dire ridge]

The new map will probably have better perf overall (still think the game will have optimisation issue tho)
And gateway will have the current playables really in mind

[sage yew]

With better performance I'm totally in
but what does "current playables in mind" actually mean?

[balmy meadow]

@sharp flower I like that!

It’d allow humans to know where there going 99% of the time and give them a bit of a chance

[sharp flower]

It also makes a cleaner HUD.

[balmy meadow]

Yep, I also thought of suggesting humans being given a map of the island as well (specifically only humans) but I feel like people’s be against that

[sage yew]

if it's done with an physical item? Sounds not so bad

[balmy meadow]

That’s what I was thinking, that if a human had a map they’d take it out to see

It wouldn’t just like.. pop up on screen

[sage yew]

just no GPS map

[balmy meadow]

Having it be a physical item would make it difficult to view at night, meaning you’d either have to hunker down, find a natural light or risk turning on your flashlight to see it

[sage yew]

sounds grate

[balmy meadow]

Maps in human buildings might also be helpful. If someone was to find a building they could look at a map on the wall to see where they are (said area could be circled in like red marker), allowing you to then find another building if you’re able to traverse the jungle safely

[sage yew]

even tho I'm not quiet sure what humans are supposed to do in this game

[balmy meadow]

Currently they don’t have much of a mechanic though hopefully they’re added to in the future

They don’t even have a “taking damage” animation 😔

Currently all they can do is sit, stand, punch, kick, take out their flash light, eat and drink

[sharp flower]

That’s actually the best idea I have heard in a while. And it seems to be rather easy to implement.

[balmy meadow]

I might suggest it officially then!

Just gotta wait the 4 hours

[sharp flower]

I guess they will just do population control on the end. If there are too many raptors around, they’ll have to hunt some. Idk what else there is to do.

[sage yew]

Human gameplay could be isolated from dinos, like having their own tasks, from research, discover, to build up facilities and dinos are just the main antagonists lurking in the shadows

I really don't know what to expect, as some demos suggested hunting and such, maybe it will be just a new addition into the ecosystem

[sharp flower]

@scarlet nova I don’t think they can make the visuals blurry at a certain angle. Their attempt on locking the camera, even if it’s flawed, somewhat works (I’d rather like it to be removed again).

[scarlet nova]

fair enough, its only a suggestion. who knows, maybe they can incorporate the idea of widening the area of vision, while still maintaining a blind spot. There are ways around a blind spot anyway, if a person has a pack or herd to watch their back. I think the blind spot encourages packing/herding in general and team based thinking.

[sharp flower]

Yea. I am also spamming all the stuff I can think of into the general-feedback, even though I know the devs cannot pull it off (and don’t care).
I think pounce is a good indicator of their skills. It’s on the tipping point of being broken. Everything more complicated than that will probably never be implemented.

[proud coral]

I still hope for when/if the camera lock gets fixed that it eventually is different per-species. So stuff like Para for instance would see much better to the sides than say Omniraptor due to how their eyes are placed

[left nacelle]

@gloomy breach If you're thinking something like Fallout, i think that's a bad idea. Since a tint over the item can make it harder to tell what the item is

This isn't an issue in games light Fallout, cause the game tells you the name of the item when you look at it, but for The Isle, it could make it harder to see the item itself, especially in dark areas

That's why I think a glowing outline is best, since it highlights the shape

[gloomy breach]

Not like that, like just the selected thing having a light tint, no highlight

So that it stands out a little more

[left nacelle]

Ooh I get what you mean. That could work though I personally feel like that can a be a bit too subtle

But best case scenario, we could get both as an option

[gloomy breach]

Yeah like, I just feel like a highlight would be too obvious, you know what I mean?

[left nacelle]

Yeah, but that's what I was going for lol. Like it wouldn't highlight huge things like mud pools and stuff, I mostly had smaller objects in mind like meat chunks and organs

[gloomy breach]

I can understand that, but I still think just having the whole thing be lit up would be better, since finding random things at night there’d just be an outline around a void, which is why I think having the object be more visible overall would be best

[left nacelle]

True

[gloomy breach]

It’s basically the same visual as night vision, just on one object

[left nacelle]

Not a bad idea. Though I still think it be best to have both as an option. Since I personally like the idea of just seeing the highlight at night. Kinda simulates how your vision is in the dark

[gloomy breach]

Fair enough

[gaunt canopy]

Why not? They are modern hoomans after all why wouldn’t they have gps equipment at a high tech island that recreated dinosaurs

[limber hull]

i just think a map would be lame tbh lol

[gaunt canopy]

🤔

Interesting

[proud coral]

An actual physical map that you'd have to find would be neat. Could even have maps only be for regions rather than the entire island.

No updating marker, just a map and nothing more

[limber hull]

physical map way cooler than "map that lets you know exactly where you are"

i know that some dinos are going to have tracking chips in them that humans can use, but I'd put those tracking devices that show where the dinos are either on a handheld device that only tells you if the chipped dino is close, or a global map in specific bases designed to monitor the dinos

[gaunt canopy]

Interesting idea that could possibly work although question is would the dinosaurs instantly be able to murder you the second you walk into the map room

[limber hull]

assuming that the dinosaurs have somehow got some way to not only get into said room but choose to sit there at all times then sure

[gaunt canopy]

Ok

[gaunt canopy]

Like a trike speaking to a Diablo or a other ceratopsian or a stegosaurus talking to a kentro or a para speaking to an other crested hadrosaur it be more believable to have one with similar atomy communicate with each other than herbivores that have no resemblance in anatomy or relation

For a other agsample we as humans are able to do similar body language and talk to a chimpanzee like sign language ( edit I’m pretty sure some of people in this chat probably have no idea what I am saying and probably think I’m spouting nonsensical words)

[gaunt canopy]

True

True but I trying to compromise instead of doing no herbi can speak to any other herbi but your own or having all of them speak to each other I was trying to go the middle route and have them speak to only certain ones

Eather way none of are 2 ideas are probably ever going to be added because all the haters ratioed us

There is usually a good reason for carnivores to not have a common chat because they are meant to be anti social against each other but herbivores in game should be able pack because they actually have a common enemy and their are similar behaviors to even modern day herbivores that have them packing together to keep each other safe during migrations and there has been evidence of different herbivores dinosaurs in the ground near each other which could mean some of them migrated together

[limber hull]

because people dont want people to mixpack, let alone it be easier

[gaunt canopy]

?

[limber hull]

i mean

if you mixpack, it kinda makes sense that the people you encounter ingame also do so

[gaunt canopy]

Are talking about the carnivore chat thing I said stuff about a compromise on herbi chat i didn’t say anything about a carnivore chat when I was talking about the compromise I was only talking about herbivores talking to each other

[limber hull]

and the devs (and community) want that to be less prevelant

for example, the migration system

not play realistically as much as make the game more fair

fighting against mega mixpacks is kind of near impossible

[gaunt canopy]

Well I’m confused guys I’m heading to bed I hope mr and you fourthpie have a good night

[limber hull]

it doesnt make realistic sense, nor is it good for gameplay tho

[lament scroll]

mixpacking will ALWAYS occur, because friends playing may want to play different dinos.

I'm of the opinion that it's super fine, and if you think it isn't you're anti-fun.

This coming from someone who has never mixpacked btw, I just think that for the most part, carnivores (minus the raptor atm) are pretty strong and can, and should, deal with picking off strays, or finding dinos out and about by themselves or in a smaller group.

I also think that you should be able to speak to other herbies as well, carnivores may be a stretch, but it could be done in a broken way? So the text is mixed up a bit, but still readable? Just a thought.

[limber hull]

a teno would never understand a stego

[gaunt canopy]

Ofcorse it wouldn’t that is what I was talking about in this photo

[clever lion]

Agreed

[limber hull]

comparing a trike to a diablo is like comparing orangutans to chimpanzees. Their vocalisations and behaviours are entirely different and alien to each other, it still makes no sense

[lament scroll]

Fun over realism any day, it's a game. LET THE PEOPLE TALK TO EACH OTHER! lol

[limber hull]

that's the thing though, mixpacking is anything but fun for those on the recieving end

[gaunt canopy]

They can both sign language they can communicate Same with gorillas

[limber hull]

if you've ever gone up against mixpacking murder squads, it just sucks

[lament scroll]

You say the community doesn't want it, but if that was the case, why is it so prevalent? Wouldn't that mean a lot of people enjoy it?

I've seen people mixpacking, and I get it can be frustrating, but so can a full group of carnos

[limber hull]

no they can't, sign language is a human-taught and made communication technique, it's not something they do in the wild. Unless these trikes and diablos suddenly become as smart as human beings, which they aren't, it really makes zero sense

[lyric spoke]

I also think you should just be able to talk to diet similar species that you spend enough time around. Since when did we care about ultra realism.

[lament scroll]

move on to another place, get your meal somewhere else, simple as that

[limber hull]

its prevelant because it's the best way for toxic people to kill as many people as possible

some people do it for nice, peaceful fun

[lament scroll]

Everyone who mixpacks is toxic? Interesting assessment, where's the data on that?

[limber hull]

but that's rare, most do it to just kill as many as possible

[limber hull]

wow, you really just jumped to a conclusion fast, huh

[lament scroll]

Kind of "he said, she said" right now no? Everytime I've seen a mixpack, they've just been chilling

It's literally what you said though, no conclusion jumping had to be done, I walked to that one

[limber hull]

i've seen mixpacks of stegos and deinos which work together to basically push other deinos out of the water and kill them

[lament scroll]

here's the thing, I'm talking mixpacking between herbies

not mixing herbies and carnivores

that's bad, ten thousand percent

[limber hull]

i think it's better that there's a barrier of communication

i think a free-speaking mixpack of herbis is infinitely more boring

a bunch of dryos running in and 4 calling to warn of danger is far more fun than "carno east guys"

[lament scroll]

to you maybe, but what if both of those things was possible? That would be pretty cool in my opinion

Hell, I'll do both

be super sure everyone knows there's danger coming and if they get eaten that's on them

[limber hull]

ehhh

i dont like the idea of indestructable, easily communicating hebi mixpacks

that just sounds ultra lame and unrealistic

it also just completely removes any form of herbivore competition

[lament scroll]

indestructable? Skill issue?

Most herbi players already are friendly to each other

that won't change, ever

[limber hull]

unless it does

we cant say for sure what direction things will go

[lament scroll]

How do you incentivise herbies to not be friendly to each other without making the game so horribly unfun for most people that they stop playing?

[limber hull]

i mean, there's migrations, which make it that some areas can become barren and highly competitive over food (if not following the migrations to their set locations)

[lament scroll]

There's almost no way that they make food scarce enough for herbies to not want to play with each other

[limber hull]

you literally have no evidence of that

[lament scroll]

I'd bet everything I possess, because that's how you become the fun police

[lyric spoke]

Just saying territory buffs/debuffs would make a lot more interesting conflict dynamics between both herbi vs herbi and carni-herbi

[lament scroll]

You literally have no evidence of them making things so barren that herbies won't play together, we're just spitballing here my dude

[gaunt canopy]

If anything most people would just switch to carnivore if that happens

[limber hull]

you can literally follow the migrations for a bounty of food, it's your choice if you want to go for more risky food, but avoid the predators, or follow the migration for easy food, at the cost of being where predators will likely already be

[limber hull]

i'm going of dev statements . They know better about this stuff than any of us

[lament scroll]

There needs to be incentives to play herbies more than there needs to be incentives to infight as a herbie. My source? All the carnos and crocs in every server

[gaunt canopy]

💯

[lament scroll]

When I play a herbivore I'm almost always STUNNED that I find other herbivores, I don't think there's data, but I would love to actually see the distribution of playerbase, I'd have to assume it's heavily carnivore over herbivore

[limber hull]

Making herbis more engaging is one step. Infighting is not as harmful as you may think, as it creates unique situations and combat, and makes herbivore gameplay more dynamic.

The reason people love carnivore so much is BECAUSE of the need to fight, herbivores are kinda just easy

[lament scroll]

Here's the thing, infighting COULD be good, but that's a slim "could" and for the most part, your average gamer will hate that, and I just don't see it as being good for a healthy "The Isle" moving forwards

you and I disagree, but c'est la vie

[limber hull]

Anyway, migrations will hurt mixpacking anyway

SInce different animals will migrate to different spots on the map

So they won't be together

[lament scroll]

or people will decide that they want to play with their friends who are different herbivores, and they'll mixpack still, and just deal with not having the optimal foods

[worthy plover]

Bruh who told you that, i die from other herbis half the time

[limber hull]

true

died two times in one night as teno to pachies lol

[lament scroll]

My experience told me that

I'm nice to other herbies, they've always been nice to me

[limber hull]

because pachies know full goddamn well they are capable of slaughtering tenos

[lament scroll]

I'm not trusting immediately though, I'm smart about it

[limber hull]

dont worry, if a pachy decides you need to die as a teno, trusting or not, you're probably dead, because it's the worst designed matchup in the game

[lament scroll]

To be REAL, I die to cliffs 80% of the time

Pachys are fine dude

[worthy plover]

Now that’s relatable

[gaunt canopy]

The just rude people abusing their power to troll people unlike me as a pachy main that doesn’t troll other herbivores unless I’m provoked by such herbivores players

[limber hull]

i got killed for simply being near the pachy lol

[lament scroll]

I think pachys are fine where they are at, tenos need a bit of a buff, carnos need a bit of a debuff, raptors need help too, and then I genuinely think everything else is pretty good

[limber hull]

pachy is so absurdly overtuned against tenos and carnos

[worthy plover]

https://tenor.com/view/already-dead-gif-20369700

[limber hull]

not an inaccurate depiction of how it feels to be seen by a hostile pachy as a teno

[lament scroll]

Pachys are good, if you're good, they are bad if you're bad. That's how it should be, and if you're up against a pachy, you know they can break your bones, maybe play smarter.

[worthy plover]

Lol yeah, i just died on a shallow hill because of those small bumps on the ground that send you flying. Was being chased too

[limber hull]

i genuinely believe the fact that pachy can stagger animals almost 4x its own size is such a bizarrely ridiculous balance decision that should've never happened

[gaunt canopy]

I don’t know if I’ve said this before but but tenos and pachys shouldn’t even be fighting in the first place they don’t even eat the same food the people who do that are just internet trolls

[lament scroll]

I disagree

[worthy plover]

Yeah i can agree with that, you gotta be a bit strategic with living battering rams tjat want your carcass on a dinner platter

[lament scroll]

If you're face to face with a pachy, move on and get behind it a little later

[limber hull]

it's an animal built around fractures and running, but it's so good at killing that why exactly would you let the carno leave? You can easily kill anything that size once it's fractured

stun, run, hit, repeat

i like pachy, it's genuinely boring due to how ridiculous it is

[worthy plover]

Realistically by game standards you are correct. They shouldn’t be killing each other, but people are kinda goofy and like to troll or just kill stuff so its gonna happen no matter what you say

[lament scroll]

lol, Pachys are fine, you just can't run at them and be mindless, god forbid people have to be smart about how they approach combat in the game

[limber hull]

i guarantee you so many people would disagree

I'm fine with them doing brutal fractures

[worthy plover]

When i play pachy i always get that soft lock glitch everytime i ram something and end up dying anyways

[limber hull]

But the stuns on animals over 4x its size

[lament scroll]

Because most people don't approach things strategically, you're correct, I agree

[limber hull]

Issue with pachy is that everything needs to be walking on eggshells near it, while it can literally be baby brain right click and just obliterate

[lament scroll]

I know that people complain about pachy endlessly, and I just don't get it, because I don't have a problem with it, and believe me, I'm not some god gamer, I just think a little bit before I engage with anything

[limber hull]

I'm fine with it absolutely BODYING omnis btw

That's fine, the animal should be a menace to animals its own size

But the punching up to 4x its size is where I'm frustrated

[lament scroll]

if a carno gets behind a pachy, gets the first hit, odds are it will win

[worthy plover]

I think it takes somewhere in the ball park of 10 rams to kill a carno, but im not sure

If that is true then thats fine with me

[lament scroll]

most carnos think they're gods gift to gaming though, they are the protagonist of the world

[gaunt canopy]

I agree there are a lot of unskilled people out there only the more skilled carno players end up killing me they use drift and other hit and run tactics or they just ram me and I instantly die

[limber hull]

Carno needs a few nerfs, although I'm pretty happy with the direction it's going so far. The hitbox, the fact it can knockdown teno-sized animals and the spammability need addresing tho. Carno can actually finally do the small game hunter thing competently now lol

[rare fractal]

13 exactly iirc

[worthy plover]

Yeah thirteen rams from a pachy to kill a carno sounds perfectly reasonable to me

[limber hull]

It shouldn't be melting tenos so easily tho, that's dumb as hell

[lament scroll]

I think the only things carno needs tuned down are its turning radius, and its weirdly large hitbox

otherwise its great

[rare fractal]

I mean….it more than is with how broken Pachy is rn

[rare fractal]

It’s turn rate? Why that it just got a massive turn nerf

[limber hull]

The turn radius is fine, hitbox is not. I like how the small game hunter finally can actually do what it was meant to do with the turn rate

[limber hull]

Also, yea, it got nerfed in this department

[lament scroll]

didn't its turn radius get a lil buff recently?

[limber hull]

Only to charge

[lament scroll]

Oh okay

[limber hull]

The base turn rate got turned down

[lament scroll]

then I'm fine with that, we cool

but that hitbox though

rougharino

[rare fractal]

No it got massively nerfed with a buff to charges turn rate that’s identical to its current sprinting turn rate, it honestly functions remarkably well balance wise…the hitboxes and the over reach in utility it has is the main issue

Carnos handling rn is pretty great…tho the “inertia bug” needs fixing

[limber hull]

It also shouldn't be knocking down teno-sized animals imho. Not only is it conceptually and visually ridiculous, but it turns the fight into a ramfest where it just constantly runs back and forth into the teno. Staggering the teno would be fine, but teno should be capable of competently fighting off carnos in a 1v1

[worthy plover]

Yeah the hitbox for the carno charge is pretty damn big. I was playing raptor and i was to the side of the carno ram and some invisible force sent me to the moon

[rare fractal]

Sounds about right

[gaunt canopy]

Pachys in a good place it’s skill issue if you can’t kill one I die In like 3 hits and even less if the carno is charging it’s not unkillable

[rare fractal]

https://tenor.com/view/saitama-moon-genos-boros-one-punch-man-gif-25893796

[worthy plover]

https://tenor.com/view/bartlett-west-wing-head-desk-gif-6012433

[limber hull]

what the hell

[gaunt canopy]

Why did it reply to the wrong comment???

[worthy plover]

Yeah i have a pretty decent time of killing pachies, as long as there isnt over three

[rare fractal]

Pachy literally can’t be killed by a Carno that it’s aware of….like literally it CANT…the amount of carnos I’ve fodderized this update with essentially no difficulty is comical

Like you literally just stand still and hold RMB and they can’t do anything to you

[lament scroll]

Maybe you shouldn't fight it face to face then, sounds like a skill issue

Sorry, I troll, but seriously, use a bit of strategy that's all

[rare fractal]

What tactic would you propose the carnos trying to kill me employ…cuz unless I’m afk I’m not dying

[gaunt canopy]

Those people you killed as a pachy had no skill then and just rushed head first into battle with out thinking

[rare fractal]

No like literally what tactic name a single strategy that works…….if you’re within melee range I WILL stun you, Carno isn’t capable of juking a Pachy unless the Pachy is terrible rn

[lament scroll]

In real life, if a predator gets a broken leg trying to take something out, what are its odds of survival

[rare fractal]

Plus I’m not even saying that’s necessarily an issue I’m just saying it’s not difficult

[limber hull]

i like the fact that you just assume that the carnos were brainless and that pachy isn't the problem, even when we have someone who actively plays pachy saying "this is too easy"

[lament scroll]

do predators take on things with horns, or things that can ram head on?

usually no

[rare fractal]

The assumption was instantly that I was the Carno lol

[limber hull]

lol

[lament scroll]

I assume it, because I've seen it time and time again

[worthy plover]

Yeah but that argument doesnt hold up well because you know, video game, but i see your point

[gaunt canopy]

Hit and run tactics i used them all the time on legacy carno and when am playing carno I do the same

[lament scroll]

yes, but people want video game to be realistic sometimes, but not all the time???

[limber hull]

people have INSANE bias when it comes to balance discussion. I like all animals, I really do, but I can't play pachy because it doesn't feel like survival lol

[lament scroll]

Oh I have a bias?

[rare fractal]

Usually no…but we have omnis hunting stegos and teno kicking carnos ass so…like I don’t think irl pred prey relationships are relevant

[worthy plover]

Yes

[lament scroll]

I'm just saying, most people decide to take on pachys head on, and that's just brain dead

I think everyone agrees on that, but the disagreement is whether or not that should be how it is

[worthy plover]

That is a very factual statement no matter how you look at it

[lament scroll]

I think its fine, because if I'm a carnivore and I want to take down a pachy, I'm fine with being smart about it

[rare fractal]

I mean…you can say hit and run tactics are functional but they really aren’t…if a Pachy can see you you can’t hit it…if ram and charge or hire collide you override it…again I’m not even taking much issue with that…I moreso take issue with the infinite stun lock…

[lament scroll]

wait until it can't see you then?

if you can't get to it without it seeing you, wait or move on to something else, seems pretty simple to me

[rare fractal]

Massive tall plains dwelling carnivore that’s exceptionally loud even when attempting not to be

[worthy plover]

I dont know, the carno footsteps are stupidly quiet right now

[rare fractal]

Like again I’m not even taking a whole lot of issue with this…Carno is just a bad predator for it that’s fine

[lament scroll]

If its in the middle of a field, find your food elsewhere, or wait for it to go into a treeline, or literally anything other than it staring at you in a field

[rare fractal]

Mostly referencing the charge gurgle…because if you’re ambushing a Pachy with the intent to bite it to death you’re going to get stunlocked

[limber hull]

all you would need to do is remove pachy's staggers against animals above 2x its size and it's a balanced animal. The fractures remain utterly brutal, it's still going to likely hit you for coming anywhere near it, but it can't stun you to death and has to retreat against large animals at some point

[lament scroll]

I'm using "you" generally btw

[gaunt canopy]

As I said before you can’t just run at it you got to ambush it you have to cach it off guard by crouching in a bush at beginning of fight

[rare fractal]

If it’s in the tree line or in a Forest you’re not landing a charge…..unless the Pachy is stationary…

And again I don’t even really have a problem with this…Pachy shouldn’t be and never will be a good target for Carno…my problem is that killing a Carno that you are aware of is pathetically easy because with a body frac at full stam…a Carno can run for 20 seconds before it’s basically at the speed of your trot if not much slower

[rare fractal]

Again, not what I take issue with

[lament scroll]

This happened to me one time and I wasn't even mad

[rare fractal]

And the infinite stunlock figure eight is indeed infinite

You can kill a Carno this way with relative safety

[lament scroll]

I agree that it doesn't make ANY sense that a carno can't really run away from a pachy, that's dumb

[rare fractal]

I think the main issue lies in carnos inability to fight off a Pachy that does disable it

[lament scroll]

well, if something gets disabled, I'm not sure it should get to fight off its disabler

[rare fractal]

In this case yes it should…Carno getting effectively oneshot by Pachy is absurd

You only need a body frac or leg frac and it is a guaranteed kill

[limber hull]

genuinely, just limit the stagger threshhold on pachy, that's all that's needed

[rare fractal]

Even without either as long as it keeps trying to kill you you WILL frac it eventually because again…the stunlock is a tactic that’s more than viable

[lament scroll]

Anyone know how many carno bites it takes to kill a pachy? I actually don't know for sure

[limber hull]

a leg fracture or body fracture is more than enough to escape. You can buff the turn radius if needed to make it more capable of dodging carno until it wears itself down

[rare fractal]

Yes…or limit the amount of stuns it can deal to a single animal within a time period…tho that is very prone to abuse

[limber hull]

i think that kind of mechanic is too hard to convey to players

[rare fractal]

Tutorials would fix everything

[limber hull]

i'd rather you can fracture a carno, but you can't stun it

[lament scroll]

kind of like elden rings poise breaks

[limber hull]

so leg break, easy win, you can escape without a problem

[gaunt canopy]

3- 4 depending on were you hit

[rare fractal]

So would I but the main issue comes in the guaranteed damage taken..you can’t actually counter the Carno you can just limit the amount of damage it absolutely will deal to you unless it somehow missed…which is quite unlikely

[limber hull]

You COULD have a universal mechanic where a fracture causes a stagger

[rare fractal]

Sorta…just not sure it really fixes much since it’s essentially a delayed inevitability if the timers are known…which they would be

[limber hull]

So, you fall off a cliff, break your leg and get staggered, or you get fractured by a pachy and get staggered

[rare fractal]

That would be pretty neat…instead of ram just having intrinsic stagger

[limber hull]

So you can't repeat that stagger post-fracture

You can stagger a carno a total of 3 times

Would mean you get one safe hit for survival, then you can run

Or go again to REALLY disable the opponent

It makes realistic sense too, a fractured body part would absolutely cause the animal to stop everything for at least a moment

[rare fractal]

Mhm…tho I must say…body fractures need a nerf…their buff was comically unnecessary…
And attacks with an activation time should still land through ram even if the animal gets staggered…that way defensive animals aren’t just walking sacks of meat to be slaughtered…like teno

[lament scroll]

Well, I'm out, but just to say it again, I think pachys are fine, and most people just play really poorly against them.

[rare fractal]

Yeah I really like this…

[limber hull]

I just think teno has no place being knocked down by carno's new charge

[rare fractal]

Oh true but neither should it be staggered by Pachy ram either

Like trust me I’m all on board with the defensive high static commitment herbivore not being stun prone to the fastest animal in game

[limber hull]

So my pachy change would be

• All fractures have the universal change of staggering the animal when they receive the fracture (fall damage or attack)
• You can now only stagger animals 2x your weight or below with ram
• You can now only knockdown animals 1x your weight or below with ram

Nothing else, the animal is perfectly fine in this state and can no longer bully carnos and tenos as easily

[gaunt canopy]

Agreed it mainly skill issue

[limber hull]

(it isn't but sure)

pachy is in a very good spot atm

not as viable as the gods that are deino and ptera, but def on stego level

[rare fractal]

Actually I’d argue it’s better…simply because a facial pouncing Omni duo destroys stego even post U6…without convenient terrain it just dies

[limber hull]

lol true

It's sad, the animal could be super engaging, but it's literally no brain skull basher

[rare fractal]

I would suggest you post it but feedback channels are…i don’t wanna say futile but….

[gaunt canopy]

Stun tho I agree also should be looked at at the same time some of it is skill issues and some of it is stun they just need to check it out and see what to do with stun on pachy

[rare fractal]

It’s how I feel about most of our animals barring a few…Carno finally getting off that list since the mobility changes

The only animal that’s never been on that list for me is teno

And even it could have way more going on for it

[limber hull]

carno is interesting now, it's a shame its hitbox and fighting style against things like tenonto are super lame

small game hunter actually terrifying to small game

[rare fractal]

Yeah you just run in and out over and over till it falls over

[limber hull]

i love how every isle player will universally ask to go back to the prior update after each update, saying it was the best one

[urban flax]

I should make a Isle feedback bingo grid

With things like
-Deino had 100kN biteforce irl
-Revert everything to previous update
-Stego is op
-Optimize the game
-Bring global chat back
-Update faster

[lapis swallow]

Eat grass and die

[limber hull]

Dude, that sounds like fun

[lapis swallow]

I got another one

Give us "insert number here" player slots on servers now

[limber hull]

how about "add more dinosaurs"

or "useless animal"/"useless smalls"

[urban flax]

There so much to choose from

[limber hull]

Or how about "less concept art, more dinosaurs"

[lapis swallow]

Thats a good one

[urban flax]

No one asked for humans

[limber hull]

good

[lapis swallow]

What else is there?

[urban flax]

Unrelated, but I love the idea of mercenaries having a held (or wrist-attached) compass

[lapis swallow]

Yes

I just found a gem, magy is a waste of development time

[fossil pagoda]

@rustic canyon About the mixpacking feedback, I think something could be implemented to avoid about mixpacks of herbis+carnis or even carnis+carnis. Herbis packing together I think it is quite normal in nature and I think most of the community is actually fine with that (might be wrong though)

[sage yew]

because that's an lazy excuse for a comfort feature

[rustic canyon]

Yes, it is something called predator dilution. Gazelles will for example try to stay close to bigger and more dangerous herbivores because it makes it harder to single them out in a larger group but it is not mutual protection. The larger animals just tolerate their presence and they won't actively defend the smaller animal.

So I agree, its pretty normal for herbivores but for carnivores it makes no sense.

[cyan flame]

Its still just as bad due to balance issues. Any form of combative mixing is bad, simple as that.

[urban flax]

And due to the fact it's very annoying without improving gameplay in any way

Also irl carnivores mixpack just as often as herbivores do

But you see it less often because in nature there is 1 carnivore for around 10 to 100 herbivores

[rustic canyon]

Oh? What examples? I genuinely didn't know if that's true

[urban flax]

Wolves and ravens are the most obvious example

[rustic canyon]

That's not really mix packing. Ravens are scavengers and they definitely would take advantage the wolves but that's more of a ecological symbiosis than mixpacking

[urban flax]

I also think badgers are known to tolerate other carnivores around but I'm not sure which ones

[rustic canyon]

I'm pretty sure a wolf would kill and eat a raven if they could get one

[urban flax]

Then there is no such thing as mixpacking in nature

[rustic canyon]

Not in the sense of how people do it in this game, no

[urban flax]

What happens sometimes is that a flock of ravens find a weakened animal or a fresh carcass that they can't eat because it hasn't been opened yet, so they find a pack of wolves and guide them to the animal, the wolves eat then the ravens eat the scraps

[rustic canyon]

Yeah Ravens are really smart

[urban flax]

And the wolves don't eat the ravens because if they did they would never get a chance of ravens guiding them to food again

[rustic canyon]

Well it's more that they can't catch the Ravens in the first place

[urban flax]

No it's more that they don't try

[sage yew]

Mixpacking could be handled, by reducing the abundance of resources. For example, by tighten up the diet with every growth state. Subs don't benefit from AI anymore and to get your diet as an Adult, you need to eat organs. Organs are highly limited, while feeding on prey (like it is right now) is highly available and it's too easy to feed an herd of like carnos

[rustic canyon]

Cool fact though, I've heard someone mention it before but i didn't know their cooperation went this far. I'm now even reading the Ravens will tease and play with the young pups

Cool stuff

[urban flax]

I'm not sure making diets even more tedious just to combat mixpacking is a good solution either

[sage yew]

"even more tedious" as what? As it is now? It's too easy to get all what you want

Organs should simply have a higher value

[urban flax]

Just leave diets alone, why would mixpackers care about getting a subpar diet anyway ? It's not like that would make mixpacking less op

[sage yew]

it's not meant to prevent herbi/carni mixpacking, but would make it way harder to mix/megapack with other carnis, as resources to mentain full scale of buffs would become much harder

The one that's feast first, would have all the benefits
bring egoism into the game, "sharing is caring" is not so beneficial in nature, as it is for us humans

[valid zephyr]

@rustic canyon it would have to be size based too.

Otherwise a dryo group could endlessly follow a lone stego to stress it, and the stego could do nothing

[rustic canyon]

Yes it was sort of a quick idea, with the specific details of it not figured out. But in that case it'd be pretty easy for the stego to just whack em with his tail if they annoyed him. I get your concern though

And the radius of the stress "zone" too would be something to consider

[urban flax]

If the radius is small enough that you need to be in thagomizer range to take effect, then, it serves absolutely no purpose

[rustic canyon]

Like, herds of different types of herbivores staying close to eachother I think is pretty natural but that scene you always come across in the game with 5 different species huddled together in a clump is what's dumb

[rustic canyon]

True

[lapis swallow]

But sustaining your diet is tedious enough and making diets organs only would literally destroy any carni that isnt hunting solo and super agressive. How should a omni pack stay strong when maybe just one of them has diet buffs? See, its a bad idea

Some playables are built around pack hunting and that would just destroy it

[sage yew]

adjustable to different carnis? Like less impactfull on pack hunters.
"But sustaining your diet is tedious enough" no it's definitely not as being 100% on diet is really not that hard and actually pretty easy. And I said it before, getting 100% on anything in a survival game, is basically beating the game in it's core mechanics, as 100% is something you've never meant to reach

pls don't make it a "fix it, but don't make anything harder" discussion

[lapis swallow]

What I meant with "sustaining your diet is tedious enough" is that it prevents afk growing and keeps me busy. I did not say that it was difficult of anything.

[rustic canyon]

Good point. I feel like right now people just eat boars/goats/deer and then go hide until 100% and go pvp other people for fun. Getting food is extremely easy and it should require more skill and player interaction than it does currently

[sage yew]

the current diet is fine for juvis and maybe subs, but for adults it's way to variet

[lapis swallow]

Imma try to nest with the current diets and then well see

[rustic canyon]

Also, it doesn't make the issue better that the herbivores that are in play currently are a bit too strong (stegos especially) so they aren't really a food source to carnivores unless they do something stupid and die

[sage yew]

would take it with a grain of salt
as such changes, would require balancing changes afterwards

[sage yew]

like whacking their tail through stone and trees?

I think some herbivores would be already debuffed with a proper collision detection

[rustic canyon]

Yeah, I would feel more confident if the hit box on that tail was more consistent and not the invisible Chi energy blade it currently is

[sage yew]

exactly and while they benefit hiding alongside trees, they can abuse the lack of collision with the terrain what makes it totally broken

[lapis swallow]

Diets should keep you busy (which they do currently) and not be chore to upkeep (tho I have to say that its very easy rn) or else we end up with a system that is like the quest system of PoT and I do not want that.

[sage yew]

how is it supposed to degrade into a quest system?
and I highly disagree that need for food should not be a "chore", as survival - if this game ever wants to be one - means exactly this.

[lapis swallow]

Because you would be always on the run to get your diets together. And its not about getting food, its about getting diet buffs

Which is different

[sage yew]

and whats wrong with that

[lapis swallow]

That you cant chill for one second and nest for example

And nobody will nest if it destroys their diet

[sage yew]

you still can? Like nothing of the diet system hinders you on that?
you can still feast on anything to get your food

the only difference would be, to get buffs, you need to play egoistic

[lapis swallow]

You actively give away your nutrients to your hatchlings, thus destroying your diet. Its fine if you can diet easily, but not if getting diet is a chore

[cyan flame]

But youre meant to have the buffs while nesting?

[sage yew]

it is not supposed to be easy

do you guys really think that how it is now, is exactly how difficult this game should be?

[lapis swallow]

Guess what? Diets are not some stuff that only skilled player should have access to. Every player that understands the game should have a good chance to get their prefered buffs

Its a base mechanic

[lapis swallow]

The game is difficult in other ways. Restricting a base mechanic should not be one of them

[sage yew]

that's where I disagree, a buff should be something hard to achieve and nothing that you can simply do. Right now it is expected to get and have all those buffs

[lapis swallow]

You know that the game is supposed to be fun and if only skilled players can get diet buffs, it would create a massive unfairness. Skilled players could grow faster, regen stam/health faster and all the other cool stuff.

[sage yew]

oh boy...

[lapis swallow]

Skilled players should be rewarded with being better in combat, not to grow faster and have stronger dinos than newbies

And to promote egoism in a already very harsh enviroment sounds like a ingridient for a very toxic playerbase

[sage yew]

all I can say is that you should stop treat this game as an equal opportunity for everyone as this is not an symmetric arena battle royal

[lucid mauve]

Cant you pick nutriens up ? Can i not just have a speedy pachy friend to deliver me those nutriens when i sit in a bush ?

[lapis swallow]

I treat it as a game that is supposed to be fun and not a chore

[lapis swallow]

You can pick up plants and organs, so yes I guess

[lucid mauve]

I tho that was the point of nutrients, make people move. Strange you can pick up then lol

[lapis swallow]

I never saw people use others to bring them nutrients

But I basically never play herbies, so maybe this is why

[lucid mauve]

Yea me neither, but bigger map more dinos. Some will be very slow, and some will be very speedy.

[lapis swallow]

Migration gonna hopefully fix this

[sage yew]

game mechanics should be challenging and not a gateway to become the strongest

[lucid mauve]

Yea, cus i hope i cant just sit in a bush while my galli friend gives me all the goodies : P

[lapis swallow]

Elders will exist, which build upon diets. Those will be challenge, not the diets itself

[obsidian jetty]

yaknow...the biggest issue I see with the "only organs give nutrients"-idea is...that we're talking about humans here. While cool and reasonable in theory, a pack will not fight over the organs but instead kill as many people as they need to to get the nutrients for every member, thus wiping out entire herds, leaving rotting corpses all over the map.

[lapis swallow]

And the fact that new players would be driven away from the game, because a playable with bad diet has no chance against a animal with even one filled diet slot

The "only organs give diet" idea is unfun and bad for accessibility

[lucid mauve]

Well hopefully they balance that out, one thing i liked about legacy balance was that just cus we where 5 utahs. Didnt mean we could just go and kill 2 allos with ease.

[obsidian jetty]

nah, but another thing I see happening with that is...let's say pachy/carno mixpacks. Pachys to break legs, don't need the organs anyway and the Carnos to finish them off and eat.

[modern cedar]

@blissful latch losing a leg is a bad idea, it would ruin the gameplay and it can be very disabling for those who have one game less, it is better for the dismemberment to be on corpses than on a player still alive

an animation when you kill someone who has for example 1pv remains correct , but that's it, and the gore damage hasn't come out yet so it's better to wait for what they have in store for us

[blissful latch]

Dw I’m not gonna die on a hill for it, just something that I thought would look cool

[modern cedar]

well, losing a leg makes you die easily because all the blood comes out of it

[blissful latch]

I mean, seen lots of crocs with only three legs

Or missing pieces of their jaw

Animals survive wild things

[modern cedar]

it may depend after all on how far they lose their legs and it all depends on what dino it is, maybe put it on big dinos who can handle it , compare to a tenonto which he will not be able to support because he often has to put himself on 2 legs, whether at the front or at the back

[blissful latch]

Yeah that was my thought process

[urban flax]

The problem is that it gives players a crippling injury that is impossible to heal

[blissful latch]

It is a horror survival sim, I’d still choose it over certain death to survive longer

But I am just me so if the thought isn’t shared that’s all good

There’s also just sticking to non essential parts like tail

[urban flax]

So you're a stego, you've managed to grow almost to elder so far, when suddendly, not 2, or 3, but 6 allos show up and attack you at once. Since you're a very good player, you manage to kill them all. Problem is, you lost your tail in the fight. Now, if any carnivore shows up, no matter how good you are, you are going to die, and there's nothing you can do about it.
Such good gameplay

[blissful latch]

For stego it could be some plates bitten off

[lucid mauve]

Or you kill 5 , and the last kill you after loosing it : )

[urban flax]

I finished the last one with bites

[lucid mauve]

lol yea, but i agree with you

[urban flax]

As long as it's just scars with no impact on gameplay it's fine

[blissful latch]

Yeah I wasn’t thinking too much about gameplay impacts when I wrote it, basically intense scarring

Something that makes you wince looking at it rather than just some scratches

[tawdry oyster]

I got no problem with herbis mixpacking, it’s normal in nature. Carnis+herbis and carnis+carnis is the real issue here.

[uneven mist]

Even tho it’s normal in nature dosent mean it’s good and they don’t really “protect” each other but just tolerate and if for example a elephant sees a lion hunt and kill a zebra the elephant won’t go to the rescue and defend the zebra
Mix herding and mix packing is both bad for balance reasons

[urban flax]

Unless the zebra was the elephant's friend

[uneven mist]

Oh yeah my bad

[cyan flame]

No, all is an issue. Just think about the balance issues and you'll see.

[tawdry oyster]

That is true, I meant that it should be focused more on carnis+herbis and carnis+carnis cause it’s more unrealistic than herbis+herbis. Of course we can’t have herbis+herbis be left alone, but it shouldn’t be looked at as big of an issue as the carnis+herbis & carnis+carnis

[cyan flame]

I'm not sure why it's not the same issue honestly. Realistic or not, the issue isn't that, it's combining combat capable playables together, which leads to balance issues as well as making it hard for a carni to hunt, or a herbi to defend/escape.

[tawdry oyster]

Never said it’s not the same issue, I said it’s not as big of an issue, it’s still an issue wether it’s realistic or not.

[cyan flame]

Well, you used the term "not as big" which seems very odd to me, when it's more or less exactly the same situation and issue. But maybe I'm just missing something in how you're looking at it.

[tawdry oyster]

Yea, it’s my bad for not expressing the right way

[tawdry oyster]

I forgot to add “not expressing” my bad @cyan flame

[barren zephyr]

Devs are encouraging certain herbivores to mix pack

[cyan flame]

Such as?

[barren zephyr]

Dunno yet, but they said some herbivores are going to have same diet areas

and punch said that they're making some dinos allowed to mixpack

[dusk zinc]

Hey can everyone check out my suggestion #general-feedback message

[cyan flame]

Mhm, as long as it's combat + non combat, it should be fine. Same really goes for carni/carni as well, more or less.

[proud coral]

They've used Dryo as a sentry for stuff as one example :3

Some mixpacking is honestly fine. It's just when there's essentially zero downside or when it creates unfair advantages that it's an issue.

But when people flip out because a Dryo is hanging out with some Tenos or a juvie Stego is following some Pachys, it's just silly.

Migrations though should help both of the former issues though

[cyan flame]

Yeah, it's the combat combinations that are an issue, not a herrera scavenging after a rex or a dryo acting as sentry for a stego. Neither of those would have any real impact on the engagement for the stego or rex.

[proud coral]

It's been implied that mixpacking like that will be much harder with migrations since foods of those creatures could be located far from one another, risking less powerful combos if not malnourishment which I feel is a bit too easy to avoid right now but that's another topic should they ignore em

[rare fractal]

I mean…honestly I think it changes basically nothing

[worthy plover]

I feel like herbivores mixpacking with other herbivores is fine. It seems like a realistic thing. Its when carnivores mixpack with other carnivores or herbivores that it gets annoying. But there is no real use complaining about mixpacking unless you play on servers with rules. Just kind of have to deal with it.

[proud coral]

I'm kinda okay with any mixpacking if it, depending on the type, has the proper drawbacks.

[barren zephyr]

I pretty much agree. When unofficial servers get high, i plan to play/make a server with carnivores vs herbivore+humans

[sage yew]

I'm still going with the idea to limit available/beneficial resources as nutrients with each grow step, to make it more unattractive to play in big groups of carnivores

For example
Carno

Juvi:
Pachy - Meat and Organs
tenonto - Meat and Organs
omni - Meat and Organs
carno - Meat and Organs
Goat - Meat and Organs
dryo - Meat and Organs
deer - Meat and Organs

Sub:
Pachy - Liver, Hart, Lungs, Intestines
tenonto - Liver, Hart, Lungs, Intestines
omni - Liver, Hart, Lungs, Intestines
carno - Liver, Hart, Lungs, Intestines
Goat - Liver, Hart, Lungs, Intestines
dryo - Liver, Hart, Lungs, Intestines
deer -Liver, Hart, Lungs, Intestines

Adult:
Pachy - liver, Hart
tenonto - Lungs, Intestines
omni - Hart, Lungs
carno - Hart, Intestines
dryo - liver, Hart

[urban flax]

So you're suggesting to not only limit diets to species, but also specific parts of said species ? That's like old diets, but worse

[sage yew]

Yes, for the simple reason:
the bigger you become, the easier you can hunt (you are stronger, faster, better), therefore food becomes available in bigger quantities quicker and you get overwhelmed with highly beneficial meat, no need for carnivores to act selfish

but once diet becomes stricter, every egoistic gameplay becomes more benefitial for carnivores. Meat is plenty, but organs are rare

[urban flax]

But you also need more food to sustain yourself...

[sage yew]

you can still eat the meat, but without the benefits of nutrients

[urban flax]

So if I, as an adult carno, see a flock of dryos, I must kill every single one of them, eat their hearts and leave the rest to rot in order to fill my diet ?
And that's better than current gameplay ?

And I must ignore all AIs

[sage yew]

well, balance is not yet taken into account, but I would say that organs should be higher value

[urban flax]

Because for some reason, when a dino grows up, it becomes a more picky eater

Not to mention the fact juvies get free diets again

I see so many issues with this idea I don't remember what's its purpose anymore

[sage yew]

I think to sustain an adult, should require more attention

[urban flax]

More attention, not a huge amount of unjustified tedium

Having diets be limited to specific species already turns their management into a game of luck, because if no one plays that specific dino, you can't fulfill your diet

But if you even make it so only organs count, if you are lucky enough to find a corpse of said species, you still gained nothing

[sage yew]

how would you approach the topic, of making unrealistic big groups of carnivores less attractive

[urban flax]

Megapack scent is a good start

[sage yew]

because it worked so well so far?

[urban flax]

Better than making diets a chore

[sage yew]

but yes, wouldn't exclude this idea

[urban flax]

Because even with that, you can still megapack
It just punishes every player including solo players

[sage yew]

it would be more beneficial for solo players

[urban flax]

Make megapack scent appear sooner than any other scent icon, and it becomes useful

[urban flax]

Compared to current diets ? Not at all
It's a version of diets that is more tedious than every iteration we had so far
And the first one was horrible

Diets as a whole are a chore, the only thing that justifies their existence is the fact you can use them to your advantage to customize your dino

Make them hard to obtain, you take away the only benefit there is to their existence

[sage yew]

so you don't agree that currently food is too easy to get?

[urban flax]

I didn't mention food, I was talking about diets

I didn't play carnivore enough in the last update to have a say about the availability of food
I just played it to test the new changes, mostly diets

[sage yew]

same applies to diets, it's just too easy, you have a free choice selecting your specific diet, while it should be more like "Be happy if you get any"

[cyan flame]

Sounds terrible. Having to murder an entire group to get your fill.

[urban flax]

Look at herbivore diets, you're still limited to specific plants, and they're absolutely miserable gameplay-wise

[sage yew]

agree on that one

[urban flax]

So 3 hours growth for omniraptor should be the norm ?

[urban flax]

Well, your suggestion turns carnivore diets into herbivore diets, but even worse

[cyan flame]

I don't think that's how it's supposed to be no, then there'd be no point in the paths if you can barely get them/keep them.

[urban flax]

If it's rare to get more than one nutrient, then might as well remove diets altogether, because then they become nothing but a chore. No benefit, no incentive, only suffering.

[sage yew]

okay, lets see it different ways
my approach is to induce selfishness to carnivores, how would you guys do it?
As I see the main problem, that you can just share with other without any drawbacks

[cyan flame]

While I'm all for creating competition and limiting numbers, I'm not sure using diets like this is the right way to go, especially not if diets were meant to let you customize your playstyle more or less.

[urban flax]

My previous idea was exactly how diets turned this update
Make it so only the best parts of an animal give nutrients
Just remove the species lock altogether

[sage yew]

it should not work with freedom of choice, that's against everything I desire to find in an survival game

[urban flax]

You dislike having a choice in a videogame ?

[sage yew]

sounds weird, but yes. A good game design sets you up limits that direct your actions

[cyan flame]

Then you're removing the point of the diets. Fair enough I guess, but it would make diets pointless.

[urban flax]

Also it's not like you just gotta click on a button to get your diets
Even if it's not that hard, you still gotta work for them

[cyan flame]

So not sure what your goal is there then, on how diets should work.

[sage yew]

not enough in my opinion

[cyan flame]

Do you want to remove the paths then, or make the buffs minimal so it's more of a "nice to have" but not needed at all for any changes in gameplay?

[urban flax]

Setting up limits is different than removing player's choice altogether

[sage yew]

Being well nutritioned should be benefeitial, maybe even more as it is now, but way harder to optain and definetly not reachable, if you share with others

[urban flax]

Current diets are fine in terms of limits in my opinion. As long as you actively look to fulfill them, they're not that hard to get. But if you ignore them or just don't play the way you should, you don't get them.

And if you're specially good or dedicated, you can use them to your advantage to compliment your way of playing

[urban flax]

So you widen the gap between lucky players and unlucky ones, or newbies

[lapis swallow]

This. You have to adjust your playstyle to sustain them and as long as you are doing this, you can upkeep them easily. Diets are no endgame mechanic, its a base mechanic

[lapis swallow]

Promoting egoism sounds like a very bad idea, as I already told you

[sage yew]

some randomness is not that bad
just ímagine yourself dropped in an remote location where you have to survive on your own. You don't go into the wilderness to pick everything to make a hamburger of choice, but you will eat whatever gives you calories to survive

currently the diet system is like a buffet

[urban flax]

Bad comparison
I think the randomness of stumbling upon something edible or not and randomly encountering a pack of hungry predators is enough in my opinion

[lapis swallow]

Funny thing is, the devs are strictly against randomness. This is why lighting strikes wont be a thing

[urban flax]

Usually randomness in games is very bad, and personnally I hate every form of it

[sage yew]

why should lightning be a thing in a first place, wtf

[lapis swallow]

Atmosphere

Funny light thing looks cool

[sage yew]

thats a whole different direction what I've intended with "randomness", I just think that you should be happy with what you get

[urban flax]

Talking about lightning striking players ? Yes of course that should never happen

[lapis swallow]

I am happy once I get my desired diet buffs

[sage yew]

me too, but it's just too easy, I always get what I want - that's not how survival should work

[cyan flame]

Then you can't have any packs/herds then? Everyone goes solo? Ad I don't think we need more severe buffs for diets, I doubt that'll be all that balanced.

[sage yew]

pack hunters should have more lose rule sets, to allow sharing

[lapis swallow]

But survival is also annoying irl - thats not how games should work

[urban flax]

There's a lot more things than diet planned to keep you on your toes in The Isle
Predators, humans, weather, bloodthirsty mutants, and idk what else
If the simple fact of attaining a good diet in an environment without dangers is made hard, idk how is anyone gonna be able to grow a dino to adulthood

[cyan flame]

Well, considering I think everything should be fine in pairs at least, I guess itd be fine. But still not sure on your idea, because you're changing how diets work entirely.

[sage yew]

but where is the chalange, if you always get what you want.

[urban flax]

In the things that are trying to kill you constantly

[lapis swallow]

What about solo species that come together to nest? Do they just have to accept that their diet is destroyed now?

[lapis swallow]

Other predators, the cliff at shallows

[sage yew]

that's how every other game works, not just survival, but tetris too

[cyan flame]

You don't always do however? Can't always find enough, or what you need. I've had it happen that others have eaten my choice of diets, even before these paths were a thing. And so on.

[urban flax]

If that's how every game works, why make it different in this one ?

[lapis swallow]

Then lets just let the isle work like every other game works

And making diets a chore sounds very bad

[sage yew]

because it's possible, it's new, it does not have to be like every other game, currently it's similar to pubg

[lapis swallow]

Even worse, RNG chores

[lapis swallow]

How is the isle pubg lmao

[urban flax]

If it has never been done before I kinda doubt it's possible

[lapis swallow]

Its a survival game with pvp mechanics, the other one is a battle royale shooter

[urban flax]

Not saying it's impossible to come up with new concepts in videogames, but

[sage yew]

you invest time to prepare your playable, to go hunt other players, it's a battle royal right now

[urban flax]

Making a game that is enjoyable only through relying on chore mechanics and the impossibility of taking a decision would be kinda hard to do, in my opinion

[sage yew]

But in a survival game, the world should challenge you

[lapis swallow]

You know, the carno chasing me kinda challenges me

[urban flax]

And your solution is the equivalent of removing 50% of the loot in pubg
Would the game be any better this way ?

[lapis swallow]

And make the loot you get very scarce

[sage yew]

if the goal is to be selfish, than yes

[lapis swallow]

I missed the part where I drop out of a plane

[lapis swallow]

Its not the goal to be selfish

[sage yew]

like this had any relevance, you're missing my point

[lapis swallow]

I think a dino survival game and a battle royale shooter have their minor differences

Just minor

[sage yew]

oh man, can we please slow it down a bit? I really can't keep up with that discussion as it feels a shitstrom is raining down on me

[cyan flame]

But you're already better of being that? Keeping full on food and water, keeping nutris up, and so on. You have every reason to care already.

[lapis swallow]

If you would have understood that locking base mechanics behind a skill and RNG gate is a bad idea, I would have stopped

[sage yew]

okay, how do you define skill and RNG, as it seems I interpret these terms kind of differently

[lapis swallow]

Skill= as in capability of making kills and knowing where to look for food (in the isle)
RNG = randomness (because you dont know where players are and you are sometimes just unlucky)

[lapis swallow]

Sorry, but this is just unfun and ridicolous.

[sage yew]

You want to be the alpha predator, the big king
currently, those are carno players, to be on top of the food chain, should come with drawbacks, it should not be easy and definitely not that easy, that you have always the ability of free choice

That's totally missing the survival aspect, as survival means intense resource management and there is so much of these resources right now, that you can play how ever you want to play, but to gain anything, should be rewarding and not an expected standard

Like I've never encountered someone being malnutritioned
Okay, to be fair, there is no visual feedback for a lack of nutrients, but it probably still applies

there is even so much food around, after 5 carnos just plowed through everything, that they all can feast till they vomit and feast again and be happy, I want to hinder that

just being able to share, encourages teamplay between Alpha predators, it's too beneficial

[lapis swallow]

Survival game does not mean that you have to incorporate all aspects of survival into the game to make it fun and immersive. Survival is not fun. People want to have fun playing games, your system contradictes this. That system is like a chore and makes sustaining a diet a real hassle, which it shouldnt be. Its a base mechanic. Elders for example are more advanced stuff that should take skill. But restricting a core mechanic just sounds like a bad idea.

[sage yew]

All aspects? Currently lacks The Isle massively on the survival aspect

[lapis swallow]

Also, the carno is no apex, its a midtier

[sage yew]

you are missing my point again

[lapis swallow]

Its the alpha predator, but it should be treated as a midtier difficuly and mechanicswise

[sage yew]

and yes, being well fed should be a hassle

[lucid mauve]

That gonne change later, the king as you call it will prob be rex. And its gonne be slow, it wont have that luxery omnis and carnos have to cover tons of land to find prey fast and choose what to attack and what not. It will prob be spending tons of time just hunting just to get close and fail.

[lapis swallow]

Imagine you are a new player and you cant kill anything because you are constantly on a bad diet. Sounds fun to me

[sage yew]

well, as I play survival games for now over 12 years, it is fun!

[lucid mauve]

Your encourge teamplay,that can also make the game incredible easy if balance is off

[sage yew]

Ever played Alien Isolation? Amazing game

[lapis swallow]

And you dont understand the fact that this change would hurt the game heavily? Crazy

[lapis swallow]

Isnt that a single player game?

[sage yew]

it's an example for survival, not "the Isle" as every game is different, I know that, you know that, please don't miss my point by wallowing in details

[lapis swallow]

No, it makes a huge difference

[sage yew]

DayZ is a great example too, even tho the devs have totally messed it up in the end, but like I said, an example

[lapis swallow]

Is it a single player game or not?

[sage yew]

yes it is

[lapis swallow]

And I imagine its a hassle to be well fed in Alien Isolation?

[sage yew]

as basically everything in this game, its harcore survival and many people enjoy it being on the lower side of the spectrum

[lapis swallow]

So you are using a singleplayer game as a example why something in a multiplayer game should be changed?

[sage yew]

Being the "hero", is boring. In every game you can be the hero, but not in survival

[sage yew]

forget about Alien Isolation, god dammit, if you can't grasp a concept, DayZ, focus on that, thats hardcore survival multiplayer

[lapis swallow]

Do you have to PvP in DayZ?

[sage yew]

yes, it's basically like the Isle, but with humans

just that the Isle is easy

[urban flax]

The conversation is still going ?

Since apparently you're on example of other survival games, do you play Don't Starve ?

[sage yew]

have not tried it, but it's on my list

[lucid mauve]

The forest 2 comes soon 🙂 thats hard

[lapis swallow]

This emoji looks like a deaththreat to me for some reason

I hate this emoji

[urban flax]

According to the game's point, the goal of the game is simple : don't starve. In the beginning, finding food is hard. But as you start to learn the game, food becomes something very easy to manage. And that's when the real game begins, because having all the food you need allows you to do all the other things the game has to offer : building, exploring, fighting monsters and all those things

And even as a new player in Don't Starve, if you concentrate exclusively on finding food and managing your resources, it's not hard to do
You simply don't get to experience the rest of the game

[lucid mauve]

Lol think its only a smiley

[lapis swallow]

It wants my soul

[urban flax]

Because in Don't Starve, like in every survival game, there are other threats than starvation
Monsters being the most obvious one

And that's what makes it interesting

[lucid mauve]

I did msg u dino

[sage yew]

Starving wouldn't be a problem, considering my idea, nothing would change in this regard
It just wouldn't be that beneficial to eat whatever you get, as currently everything buffs you

[urban flax]

The Isle is no different
There's only so much entertainment you can get from looking for food and having trouble (or not) doing so
It's interest comes from other things to do
So far, you can fight, nest or explore which, honestly, isn't much, but making food harder to come by just reduces the opportunity for players to try out these other aspects of the game

[urban flax]

But you're just removing the ever-so-slight one can have in finding food and fulfilling their diets
Because they can't make something out of their diets

They just become victims of a game mechanic designed to reduce the amount of fun they can have

[sage yew]

As an adult, you need specific things to get your diet, organs are the best way to go, to limit available resources

[urban flax]

But these resources are random
So it's just an unjustified punishment on players

[sage yew]

can you please explain this?

[urban flax]

If we are to take the example of pubg again, th game is fair because everyone has the opportunity to have a weapon
If you take some away to reduce the availability of resource, many players will end up being confronted to a player with a weapon while they are unarmed, and they have no choice but to die, because they were unlucky

On the other side on the spectrum, there's games like Alien Isolation and Resident Evil. In those games, resources can be as scarce as the devs want, because they are manually placed around the levels. The players are forced to come by them if they play right, so if they run out of resources and die, it's on them

[sage yew]

can happen, but what's wrong with that
The Isle is meant to be asymmetric

[urban flax]

Asymmetric, not unfair

You can't make a survival game that leads to situations in which the player die without having done anything wrong

[sage yew]

why should everyone be equal, The Isle communism edition

[urban flax]

If you consider fairness is communism idk what to tell you

[sage yew]

sorry for being polemic

But I don't see the isle, as a fair game
you can always encounter something bigger

[lucid mauve]

Survival can be hard and easy,depends on what you play prob. Galli gonna be easier to grow then lets say giga im guessing

[urban flax]

The Isle, so far, has been designed in a way that makes it so a good enough player can survive any situation

Your idea of diets, even if they don't lead to death, randomly punishes players for no good reason

[lapis swallow]

And the reduced fun factor is kinda obvious. As a omni, I like to go for a two times dots and one lines diet. That diet gives me buffs that fit my playstyle as a omni (stamina regen buff and the stam use reduction (when it starts working) and my personal preference to be sneaky (the increased nightvision). When I have that diet combo, I can play my favorite playable the way I like. It enhances my gameplay and makes it more fun. That system would make it VERY rare for me to get those buffs, thus less fun.

[urban flax]

It's one of the main rules in videogame design to not punish players until they make a mistake
In case you weren't aware, people play videogames to have fun

[sage yew]

you can say punishing, but I say rewarding for those who went through hell to reach anything

[urban flax]

Even the guys who play Dark Souls on max difficulty

[lapis swallow]

So basically "reward those that were sweaty af and screw the others"

[urban flax]

They didn't went through hell
They got luckier
That's the issue

[sage yew]

and that's totally okay
back to pubg, like everyone would get the same weapon

sometimes you'll get the big gun, and sometimes just a pewny pistol

[urban flax]

Everyone doesn't get the same weapon
Everyone gets a weapon
You don't seem to get the difference

Even then, I wouldn't say pubg is completely fair, because weapons are scattered randomly and some are straight-out stronger than others. So you can end up in a situation in hich, despite being a very good player and doing everything you could, against a luckier player, your chances are very thin
But I'd say it's acceptable because pubg is NOT a survival game

So unavoidable deaths are tolerable

[sage yew]

okay, I have to admit that I give up on that conversation
as it is basically that I want it more challenging and you guys don't
I think an hardcore experience would be more fun, you call it unfair

that's okay, but I can't argue on that

[urban flax]

Even if they should be avoided, no matter what's the game genre

[urban flax]

I think you don't understand that your suggestion doesn't make things harder
Not in a good way
It increases the amount of randomness that dictates whether you can enjoy the game or not

[lapis swallow]

Its no hardcore experience, its a experience full of RNG

[urban flax]

I gave you plenty of examples and comparison to other games and how it works

And why it doesn't work for The Isle and the diets mechanic

[sage yew]

It's not that I don't understand you, I simply enjoy such things you guys seem to dislike

[lapis swallow]

You enjoy RNG?

Weird but ok, I guess

[sage yew]

now you are polemic

but the most important aspect to me is
that I don't see other ways to discurage big groups of carnivores, as there is no need to be selfish and teamplay with other top tier predators is just more beneficial

I simply see the aspect of egoism highly beneficial for this game

[lucid mauve]

I can survive perfectly,do every thing correct. But then dinohappend15 here crossed path with me, but unlucly for me i was looking right side so i didnt see him. But he saw me,and got the jump on me. Thats unlucly for me, not because i was doing anything wrong 😛

[sage yew]

"sh*t happens" do I understand this correctly? And I don't see anything wrong with that

[lucid mauve]

Big packs need more food,if your 5 carnos going for 2 allos. Thats not gonna be easy. Its not free food

[sage yew]

but big packs are able to kill way more and easier, that's why carnos (for example, because there is nothing bigger yet) like to team up

[lucid mauve]

Yes, this now is not reflecting how the game will be

[sage yew]

I hope so

would be nice if devs would share information on how they want to tackle such problems, maybe there are some mechanics in development, that are making my suggestions obsolete

but right now, the only solution I see is to limit resources (or their values)

[lucid mauve]

But i dont have problems with carnos, unless im stupidely running around in the open fields.

[lapis swallow]

Diets are fine in their current position

[sage yew]

no, they are not.

[lapis swallow]

What about you just suggest your diet change? That would make this discussion obsolete, because then we would see how players like it.

[lapis swallow]

Suggest it

[lucid mauve]

Its not only survival that makes the game good,its also the immersive. Playing lets say anky, pack of allos walking past you. Knowing they not gonna bother you,seeing carnos running past. Sounds, nights,weather etc.

By the way did they do anything about distance calls? I feel its less

[cyan flame]

They are, for the purpose they have. You don't seem to quite get the idea with the diets.

[sage yew]

okay

[cyan flame]

Look, the point is to be able to get them, so you can tailor your playstyle. As such, making it almost impossible to even get something, would kind of ruin that. I'm not opposed to your desire to make people be a bit more competitive, but you're approaching the wrong part for doing so, or so it seems at least.

[sage yew]

while you are questioning my ability to reason, I allow that to myself too, as I think you are just enjoying the comfort of the system that is currently given

[cyan flame]

We clearly consider "comfort" in different ways. And I did not question you, I'm telling you what the point of the diets are, for now at least. You're the one trying to change that up, against the purpose of them.

You want to change it up because you have an issue with numbers, when that is an issue all of it's own.

[lapis swallow]

As Erik said, Diets are meant to play into your playstyle and make the game more enjoyable and unique.

[sage yew]

you just told me I don't understand the diet system, but whatever
and using the current diet system as a building block to build up your stats to your liking, is pretty comfortable as you just have to pick from multiple sources, but mostly you only have to get one body down and you get all variations by your liking together. This I wouldn't think as bad for the beginning, I just don't like the idea that criteria do not evolve with my growth state and the abundance of variety just enables the possibility of ridiculous group sizes that are simply not meant to be, but considering the comfort that is always given, simply allows it and once it's simple, why not build Alpha-Packs. You may not like to struggle, but to struggle makes an achievement worth trying. For now any constellation of diets, is simply given on a tabled and you pick by your liking. That's easy, that's dull. And I can't imagine that how it is right now, will stay forever and will be probably changed few times till it hits the desired effect.

[lapis swallow]

If you get one body, you wont get your desired effects for every combination. You need to activate those diets first (which you cant do with one organ)

[sage yew]

well, maybe two, I have not payed that much attention, but after 10min I'm usually all done with 50% growth rate and it usually last up to 60 or 80% where I switch my diet to something other.

[cyan flame]

No, I told you you don't seem to understand the purpose of it. Since you keep saying you want diets to be almost impossible to get in the first place. Liking to struggle or not have nothing to do with it, it's not an argument. Yes, you can fulfil your diet, that's the point. I don't know how else to phrase this, you're meant to be able to get your diet to get the buffs that fits your playstyle. Or so it seems for now at least.

[lapis swallow]

And I have one question. How would like elders to play out with your system, which will heavily tie into diets?

[cyan flame]

I .. how else do I have to phrase this. If you can't get your dietary path, or if it's almost impossible so very few/if any have it, then there's no point to having the dietary paths because most people will not get to actually use it and thus tailor their playstyle.

If the point of diets is to give you a choice of "how do I want my critter to function" you need to reliably be able to get those diets so you can indeed play the way you want.

You've made the argument that it should be very hard to get diets in the first place, but then you take away the "tailor your diet to your playstyle" option for people.

[lapis swallow]

Ptera triple three dots is the way to go

I love it

[cyan flame]

There's no point in offering dietary paths if you can barely/rarely get them.

[sage yew]

I really don't know, as I barely know anything about elders, but for now I just dislike the idea in general. For now I simply wait to see how it will play out at the end, before I form an proper opinion on that

[cyan flame]

Full stamina is pretty much the only way to go, for most things :p

[lapis swallow]

Stam + nv is the way to go for me on my omnis

[sage yew]

I like the Idea of having just one diet, or two and play with others that have the same difficulty and if risk investments pay out, I will be benefited of 3 diets

[cyan flame]

Fair, I did say for most things! :D

[cyan flame]

Then you'd have to change when/how you get the buffs I guess. It's not a bad idea per say, but if you're only meant to get one diet reliably, or maybe two, then that's where the paths will have to come in, rather than at all three.

[sage yew]

btw. 2 carbs 1 lipid for me

[cyan flame]

Which might in turn make the three diet option overtuned.

[sage yew]

what do you mean by overtuned?

[cyan flame]

Just that if one diet gives you enough to make a noticable difference in how you play, then three, in order to be worth it, would have to be quite the decent buff, and that might make it too good, if one diet is already good.

[sage yew]

the current buffs don't feel too OP, or under powered, for my liking
the only problem I see is that in bigger groups it's too easy to obtain all buffs

A bell-curve could be fitting, with a distribution of lets say 1 diet 25%, 2 diets 50% 3 diets 25%, per population. It would increase the variety of encounters

[cyan flame]

No but the current ones are for three diets? Unless you just mean the single or duo ones? My point is mostly that if we look at the three diet combos as the "this gives your playable a distinct behaviour", and that's the goal, then if that kind of bonus is on one or two diets, then having three would have to be much greater or no one would care to even get that. And that in turn could be overtuned then.

I mentioned earlier, I'm not opposed to making things harder or more competitive, but not at the cost of taking away the point of the thing we're working on. I'm not sure it is too easy to get the buffs for a big group, but that might also depend on what we consider a big group here and for what playable. Sure, we could lower the amount of nutris you get from stuff, so you'd have to eat more, but it's also important to not let it turn into a chore, as people have pointed out.

[sage yew]

-15% stamina drain is pretty decent, or 25% stamina regain also, health und healing buffs are also pretty strong, there is hardly anything to complain about and it's worth to risk something for it (an difficult encounter)

by bigger groups I mean like 5 carnos working together, they can fairly easy kill one stego, pachy or a lone carno and with organs they all provide right now all 3 diets and 5 carnos are easy fed and nearly unstoppable killing machines, so they don't run out of "fuel" so fast.

But once meat becomes simply just meat and only rare organs provide nutrients, than they have to compete with each other and can't simply share the over abundance of meat with each other to get everything they want

[lapis swallow]

One pachy aint filling 5 carnos. Also, if a adult stego dies to 5 carnos, it should rethink its life choices

[sage yew]

don't be so mean, it's not like everyone has to be a pro in this game
the point is, after the stego they can just keep killing, I've just played yesterday carno we had no food shortage, anything but that

[cyan flame]

I doubt a stego gives five carnos enough organs for all their nutris/diets. And it's not even on their diet otherwise, is it, so only raw food aside from said organs?

[sage yew]

okay, my bad with the stego
but we ware all pretty buffed and most likely killed just for sport at some point

[cyan flame]

Well, most other things would be even smaller and yield less I'd guess.

[sage yew]

but what we got was way more than we actually needed

so 5 carnos + all buffs? Too OP if you ask me

[lapis swallow]

Remember, the other players have those buffs too

[cyan flame]

I honestly have a hard time believing you somehow managed to keep five of you, with all three nutris, activated, especially if you all had more than one hexagon of the same diet, by using only organs or player kills. Did you use any AI as well?

[sage yew]

outsource, we all used what we could or needed. This wasn't some kind of experiment with friends where we limited ourselfs, I just played as a carno and teamed up with strangers

[cyan flame]

Alright, just trying to figure out how you managed that

[sage yew]

just played, nothing out of the ordinary
after spotting a herd we just plowed through and we all ware pretty fed at the end

at the end I've died to a carno ram and got smacked by a stego, accidents happen

but seriously, this is just too OP

[lapis swallow]

But its not because of the diets

[sage yew]

no

but diets could be used to counter this

[lapis swallow]

Its because carno is op + the fact that AI spawns are too much

[sage yew]

and AI is kinda broken, too easy too hunt, even as a juv

[lapis swallow]

Maybe fix the problem first before you create another one

[sage yew]

maybe

but with organ diet, we would definitely lose some punch as all nutrients for everyone wouldn't be possible

[lapis swallow]

How about we actually balance some stuff first before we make bad changes

[sage yew]

even tho I dislike you calling this a bad change, you are not entirely wrong. But I simply see no other way to balance stuff in such a way, that it's not beneficial to simply team up to bigger group sizes. Sharing and being kind to others, simply wins in the carnivores realm

[lapis swallow]

Making something less op makes it more difficult to live through more encounters thus making it more difficult to form big groups

You notice how there are no current omni mega packs

Because its not op rn

Only stuff that is op can form and sustain mega packs

[sage yew]

omnis are slowly coming back btw

[lapis swallow]

I know

But carno is still pretty strong rn

[sage yew]

people adapt to it

yes and even solo totally broken, a 5m wall of death

[lapis swallow]

They just gotta fix the turning bug and omni is in a good spot (and maybe look into the bucking)

If you balance stuff, it cant really form mega packs, so we wont need such diet changes to combat them

[sage yew]

but isn't this just an excuse? I mean, come on - diets are just too easy

also, hunting juvis would become less attractive, as their organs are literally just a joke

[lapis swallow]

Diets are not supposed to be hard to get

[rare fractal]

Especially with all the planned Dino’s that centralize around corpse denial

[sage yew]

@brisk badger focus on NW, or centre spawn, most likely you will encounter people at centre, 70% of the map is currently not used by anyone, for... many reasons

[swift tide]

@brisk badger https://vulnona.com/game/the_isle/

[brisk badger]

People are so against adding a in game map but everyone just uses a website to post their coordinates to see their location on a map anyways

makes no sense lol

[sage yew]

you are right, coordinates should be removed.
But useful in an development stage.

[brisk badger]

should just make it to where if you want a map you can have it if you dont just disable it

[proud coral]

Just because you can do something outside of a game doesn't mean you should encourage/allow it in the game 😛 People use Discord to chat with one another all the time, but that doesn't mean we should allow global chat/global VC in the official experience of course

[limber hull]

@somber elm would rather a playable Oro to an AI sino any day

[somber elm]

Well I meant oro was always ai so sino ai would be cooler but definitely playable would be better than ai

[limber hull]

oro is going to be playable iirc

but so is every dino besides compy and ptero

[somber elm]

It’s just a little boring with no interesting parts

So sino would be a cooler playable

[real bison]

anyone else feel like there should be more branches for nest making. spent the last half hour trying to find a single one and nothing

[wary flicker]

ima just say it, they shoulda add quests, or tasks to do in this game

something that keeps dinos moving, and not just static inside bushes

if i scan the map top to bottom, and not find hardly any other dinos, thats kinda bland, and im on a "full" server, and hardly anyones at the hotspot center

obviously with those tasks/quests they'll have to give some kind of reward thats worth gettin around, that, i dont know, I'd say skins, but you'd have to kill yourself to get those, and it'll break immersion if you go in some kind of menu and just change it willy nilly

that or make it easier to track other dinos, because man ive been sniffin for a hot minute and i got nothin

[lapis swallow]

PoT exists

[real bison]

that stego stamina doe

[vital plover]

#general-feedback message

I'm just going to add here that the head lock is a useless feature on both carnis and herbis, because you can easily avoid it when you eat by alternating between G and E.

[sage yew]

or just stop eating to look around, like any animal would do. But people want comfort features

[dire ridge]

Just stop drinking/eating and look around ?

[limber hull]

^

really not hard

[vagrant moss]

So can i please ask (yes i have a decent pc ) is there any way in the current setting which some we cannot amend , any way to improve frame rate or is it a across the board problem?

[lapis swallow]

Evrimas is very badly optimised rn. You can turn down your shadow quality for better frames, but it will bleed your eyes because low shadows are ugly

[vagrant moss]

thanks for clarification

[sage yew]

you can lower resolution and use Nvidia or AMD image scaling. Gives me somewhat of 10fps more. To improve visuals you can select (I think it was) TAA and set it to ultra, as is does not require so much performance but improves visuals by a lot.

[vagrant moss]

yeah i fiddled around with NVIDIA and i didnt see much change but i shall try the TAA , thank you

[sage yew]

@barren zephyr would not say "OP", but broken, due to the lack of proper collisions and environment interactions. This goes much deeper then balancing issues.

[lapis swallow]

The stego has one of the best hitboxes in my experience.

[wicked fable]

[lapis swallow]

Like to the point where a thagomizer stops 5 centimeters infront of my face, it does not count

[sage yew]

I'm getting repeatedly fished out of thin air, while his tail slams through stone and trees.

[wicked fable]

What u playin as bird?

[lapis swallow]

Never had that happen to me

But that does not say it never happens

[wicked fable]

As long as u go for whats in your diet and do it correctly and youre alert to your sorroundings you should be good

[sage yew]

I don't know what you guys are talking, but tail slam does not interact with the environment at all and spikes are only at the tails end, and should not impale you while it hits you with his mid section

[lapis swallow]

That is gonna cause massive issues with ping

[wicked fable]

huh?

[cyan flame]

No attacks interact with environment, this is not a stego issue.

[lapis swallow]

Just let the stego have its entire tail a damage zone.

[sage yew]

why does it feel like you guys are bashing at me again?

[wicked fable]

we aint

[lapis swallow]

We are just disagreeing with you

[wicked fable]

^^

[lapis swallow]

And what do you mean with again?

We disagreed with you last time

[sage yew]

okay, so stego is perfectly fine I guess

[wicked fable]

yup

[cyan flame]

Also keep in mind hitboxes has to work game wise. Does it make perfect sense that a stego impales you outside of the points, no but with no tail control its probably easiest to consider the entire tail for damage.

[limber hull]

stego is honestly fine, yea

[sage yew]

...just... no

[wicked fable]

if anything its Carno thats the problem

[lapis swallow]

Yes

[wicked fable]

and pachy a bit as it shoudlnt be able to solo a teno or carno to death... Just make them injured enough to not hunt em anymore or stop

[limber hull]

stego honestly is one of the least threatening animals in the game as long as you just move away from it. It's got zero ways to go on the offense

[lapis swallow]

Big juvie stego likes to have a word with you

[wicked fable]

and 100 on defense

[cyan flame]

Do we need collision for objects for attacks, yes. But this goes for all attacks of course.

[limber hull]

that's something they are working on anyways

[sage yew]

what does how you'd interact with a stego has something to do with his playability

[sage yew]

I never said its stego specific

[wicked fable]

u did tho?

[sage yew]

no?

[lapis swallow]

You replied to a stego feedback

[sage yew]

yes? and this issue applies to stego as well

[wicked fable]

''I don't know what you guys are talking, but tail slam does not interact with the environment at all and spikes are only at the tails end, and should not impale you while it hits you with his mid section'' is this not specific to steg?

[lapis swallow]

That sounds pretty stego specific to me

[sage yew]

you know what? Im sick of your crap, Im out

toxic community

[wicked fable]

[limber hull]

what??

[cyan flame]

Nor did i say you did. But stego was specifically mentioned so I responded to that.

[lapis swallow]

Makes a point
Says he didnt make this point
Gets proven otherwise
Refuses to elaborate
Leaves

[limber hull]

i literally dont understand

they weren't even being that toxic, you'd hate what the actual toxic Isle community looks like

[wicked fable]

its almost as bad as COD

[lapis swallow]

Just take a look at reddit

[limber hull]

yea

[tall hearth]

I think he was partially mad stego could hit him thru objects, which I believe devs said they're gonna work on so it doesnt happen in the future?

[limber hull]

yea

[sage yew]

https://youtu.be/TJJaYIaXK18?t=373
best collisions ever, not broken at all, 100% how it's intended

[limber hull]

that... clearly hit on the stego's screen tho

the omni got WAY too close

[lapis swallow]

Sorry but I see no issue with this clip. Its how evrima hitboxes are designed, you can run through the tail of a stego.

[limber hull]

that was a massive misplay on the omni's behalf

[zinc rivet]

yea that was a fair strike

[limber hull]

not only by running right at a stego, but then deciding to 180 instead of taking a 45 degree turn, that would've allowed it to keep moving and dodge

[zinc rivet]

literally right through

Spiro large. Gateway gonna be larger.

[sharp flower]

@balmy meadow I’d like to remember you of your suggestion of putting maps into human buildings with the marked location of the current position.

[limber hull]

Gateway is a larger map, but it utilises the migration system to ensure players are encouraged to interact, without forcing it

best of both worlds

[lapis swallow]

We get a big map with player interactions

[limber hull]

(and the map is actually made well)

[pine comet]

how many player will be on the new map

[limber hull]

100, I don’t think player count is changing

[lapis swallow]

Probably 100, maybe more

But 100 is the best guess

[balmy meadow]

AH that’s right! Ty!

[balmy meadow]

There

[lapis swallow]

@balmy meadow i love your idea

[balmy meadow]

Ty!

[vital plover]

This is what you do when you pick up the food and then eat it. I'm not against the headlock feature, but the way that it is implemented right now, just makes eating by holding E obsolete, because almost all foods can be picked up.

[obtuse heath]

All the official servers are a single clusterf... of madness! I get disconnects all the time. The amount of people on the server is never true. Servers disappear from one moment to the other etc. Please fix the servers

[earnest goblet]

@tawdry rune thanks to your feedback i realised how much they fricked up the lightning like holy cow that game looks like early sonic games now 😵‍💫

[dire ridge]

go pick it up then

[uneven mist]

When it’s ready

[lapis swallow]

He is not wrong tho

[uneven mist]

I am always right

[lapis swallow]

#general-feedback-discussion is wild today

[uneven mist]

When has it not

[lapis swallow]

Its especially wild today

Look at it

[uneven mist]

Ye

[lapis swallow]

It was a joke. Try to understand sarcasm, you are gonna see this type of stuff a lot here

[icy lion]

There are no ETAs. Content will release when it's ready, as stated in rule 10 #rules-and-info

[uneven mist]

@real river is it deino?

[uneven mist]

@kindred lantern because the isle isn’t going for accuracy like how beipi wasn’t a duck Like animal that the isle Is going for and had quills and probably burrowed

[kindred lantern]

ahhh...sad that they wont do such a simple thing.. as its only adding an addtional pre-exisiting code

[north night]

Yes

cold blooded animals need sunlight to keep warm

[faint folio]

They only have like... 10 minutes of water before they start taking damage from dehydration. You want to nerf them more?

Also basking would require them to be out of the water for periods of time

10 minutes is already quite harsh imo. You can't go further than 5 minutes away from water because of the return trip, and especially for low Stam, slow adults, you really won't find them far from the water

[sage yew]

It's not a nerf, if it's an missing feature, as heat management should be a thing in general

[faint folio]

I like heat management. Just not heavier penalties for being out of water too long at the same time

[sage yew]

don't think of adding an panalty, as balance needs to be adjusted to it afterwards

[faint folio]

Unless you're at stego rock in NW, or center/shallows (both of which are very near water), you usually won't find many large Crocs on land

Actually usually juvi and sub Crocs are a lot more common on land than adults, because they go there to forage and avoid the issue of predation by the adults

[sage yew]

would be interesting to see a stego to use his plates for heat conduction and glowing bloody red in the sun

[lapis swallow]

Ah yes, being afk for 5 minutes. Great feature

[sage yew]

you again

[lapis swallow]

Me again

Sorry but getting punished for not being afk in a vulnerable spot for x amount of time sounds like a bad feature to me

[sage yew]

everything sounds like a bad feature to you

[lapis swallow]

Only bad features sound like bad features to me

You still mad because I dislike your idea?

[sage yew]

Im mad that I went on a pointless discussion with you, as I took your opinion serious, but man I was wrong, you just look for what benefits your brute force playstyle and doesn't hurt your comfort zone

[lapis swallow]

My opinion was that diets are a base mechanic that should not be difficult to get and that elders should be the thing that are gonna be difficult to get and to be rewarded with stuff (perks).

I had a clear opinion, you just disliked it

And what do you mean with brute force playstyle lol?

What do you know about my playstyle?

[sage yew]

oh pardon, so I was wrong, that being said, I just blacklist you, as I don't intend to defend any conceptualised ideas against you and your "opinion"

way better now

[lapis swallow]

So am I supposed to yes your idea or what? That idea was bad in many ways and I told you this. What is wrong with that? The idea of adult only getting diets with organs is flawed, thus I dislike it. Also, I love how you "" my opinion as if it didnt matter lol.

[cyan flame]

It would be interesting if temperature was a thing yes, and deinos should have to bask. They are quite safe most of the time, it'd be fine if they had to bask, maybe for one nutrient or something (as of right now at least). Pass on the stego plates, I'd much rather we get them flush with the longer/more severe threaten anim! (if we ever get back the long/short calls and all that).

[lapis swallow]

Realism does equal not fun in a video game. You really think that any player could keep up a diet with only organs to keep it running?

[sage yew]

actually yes, they do. Bears for example eat before the winter only fish heads as they contain the most nutrients to survive harsh conditions, many carnivores eat only the precious parts and scavengers get whats being left

[lapis swallow]

My issue with basking is the fact that you are essentially afk and you are forced to by the game. That does not sound fun or engaging for me.

Is sheer difficulty a argument for you?

Yeah, and the current diets are not stopping them

And I sit on discord all day because I am at my dads house (where I have no pc)

[cyan flame]

It's flawed because it'd be too difficult to get your diet, which takes away from the point of diets as it stands. It's a game matter, not a realism matter.

[cyan flame]

Well, it'd not have to be long, perhaps more often instead. Short basking moments perhaps.

[lapis swallow]

It would be fine if it would be kind of the same time as you would need with getting oxygen

Many times here I have actually changed my mind about stuff.

Maybe you just didnt see that

Because people could give reasonable explanaintions to me on how it would benefit the game

They are player friendly, in my opinion

[dense moth]

Player friendly in what way?

[cyan flame]

Well, that'd be the opposite of Damus suggestion to be fair.

If I've understood things correctly at least.

[lapis swallow]

You understood them correctly

[sage yew]

As nutrient value could be balanced in such a way, that it becomes feasible to sustain only small groups of carnivores, but not megapacks anymore

[dense moth]

You don't specifically need the diet fully to grow full adult, sure it may take some time but it's not a necessity.

[sage yew]

but this is presumably too "hard"

[lapis swallow]

Megapacks of playables only happen when the playable is overpowered. Or how many times have you seen a teno mega herd exist for a long time? The issue is a balance issue and not a diet issue

[dense moth]

They don't make it a chore, it's only if you are to be nesting or want to gain the extra bonuses which i think is neat in itself for a few reasons

[dense moth]

To find nutrients? not at all lol, if that was what Tiberius was talking about

Center, NW etc have a lot of dinos, easy to hunt as a predator if you know how to.

[lapis swallow]

No, the fact that you can only gain nutrients from organs as a adult carnivore

[dense moth]

Oh

[lapis swallow]

I and a couple others find it simply to hard to sustain a diet of your choice with this change.

[dense moth]

Understandably

[lapis swallow]

Imagine being in a pack and trying to run literally any diet combo

"I need the heart now"
"Oh, I just swallowed it, guess we have to kill something else"
"Great, now my diet buff is gone"

[dense moth]

herbivore diets are the easiest, carnivores are a bit more.. How should i describe it? Challenging because of the OP dinos that you can gain nutrients from i suppose

Yes

[lapis swallow]

But its doable

[dense moth]

But that is an issue arisen with the Carnivores

[lapis swallow]

And the diet change would make getting three diets a nightmare

A reduced nutrient drain, you mean. Because a reduced food drain would lower player interaction and would make the game boring.

[sage yew]

reduce drain? After you have eaten, have all your diets, for what other reason then killing for sport, is being left

oh, nvm

[lapis swallow]

Killing to sustain your nutrients

[dense moth]

I've been able to only get all three on Ptera, rest i don't do any perfect diet mainly because it's hard, i agree with that. I like it on the herbivores because that's an easy find. Carnivores especially in large packs definitely have it harder, i was playing ptera just today and me and another ptera had to wait for long periods of time due to not having enough nutrients to feed on

[lapis swallow]

Its quite easy with omni, spawn south, get a rabbit, dont get killed by bajillion adult carnos and get a deer

[sage yew]

For omnis or carnos it is pretty easy right now

[dense moth]

You have to keep those nutrients up as well, which means killing even more dinos but because the organs don't provide enough nutrients, you are left to kill more dinos before you loose those diets. It's a hassle.

Ofc it's easy with Carnos because of how horribly OP they are

[sage yew]

who said they won't provide enough nutrients? Balancing is to be done afterwards and not "like it is right now"

[dense moth]

I don't get full diets by eating only one carno for example, i have to either find another body that hasn't being picked to the brim. Or kill another dino, i want a full diet, not a half filled one when i try to get all three

that's how i play anyways

Yeah but if you look at how it's currently mechanised, it's awful to fight against. I've lost countless of times to Carnos bc of their turns and rams

Yep. Anyway, i'm heading off to bed, was just gonna leave an input, adios

[sage yew]

carnos are the most dominant thing, but there is aaaaaalot more to be done, as most of the current gameplay is only acceptable in an early version of game

thus, the current game feels more like a suggestion, and not how it is supposed to be like

sadly, basic elements take like forever

[cyan flame]

The turn is more or less fine, the hitbox needs fixing. At the very least, start there. That as well as the weird inertia/turn "bug" thing that seemingly has happened.

[sage yew]

don't know if EA is a blessing or a curse

[tall hearth]

Both

No

[sage yew]

nooooo

[tall hearth]

Dlc is gross. Devs have already said they're good on money

[dense moth]

They keep going back and forth with the dinos, buffing the carno, nerfing the raptor, etc

they need to be consistent

[lapis swallow]

They are hiring rn, they just cant find people

[dense moth]

how can they not find people?

[sage yew]

just provide a good game and people will buy it, funding even more in the hope of improvement is so.... optimistic

[lapis swallow]

This

[cyan flame]

They don't need more funds. Or so we've been told.

[lapis swallow]

I dont know, i think they are only hiring very good and talented people and the need for devs for any game is big. There is a lot of competition

I think that money is not the issue

[sage yew]

will probably happen more often, as new elements will be added (hopefully) and this will require more adjustments constantly, to provide a more or less good EA experience

[lapis swallow]

There is only gonna be one more base mechanic, so it should only happen once or twice more

[dense moth]

It's like every update they keep going back and forth, it leaves the game unplayable. Whenever a new update drops it's like "Oh we made the raptor faster and more agile again!" then the next update "We nerfed the raptor because it was too OP". they have to be at a consistent pace, not go back and forth and believe it will make the game better by being uncoordinated with everything. It's like every time we are getting a game that is unplayable one week, the next very much playable because all the dinos make sense instead of you going "This ain't making sense"

[feral solstice]

The problem is not money but the array of potential developers who may or may not meet the requirements to be hired

You can’t just open up an ad and say “We’ll take anyone!”

They also seem to not take amateur developers, so yeah it’s gonna be harder

[lapis swallow]

Which makes sense

[dense moth]

Agreed, it's also a lot about money too. Some developers they may be looking for are looking for a higher pay check if it's a not amateur

[sage yew]

hardly to digest this topic, as there is not much coming from the devs

[dense moth]

Very quiet

[feral solstice]

Not just that. Wait till you see the criteria you have to meet in order to become a tech animator

BRB

[lapis swallow]

I think they will be starting to work again on monday

I hope that we get a hotfix for the balance

[dense moth]

Yeah i understand that, but it leaves the game unplayable because of the inconsistent and not fully understandable dinos. Like stegos can easily kill a deino.. A apex predator?

Hopefully

In my head, making such changes that keep going back and forth is not quite going into my head why they keep changing it but idk

[feral solstice]

Lost where I put the dev applications but, it’s just a somewhat decent sized criteria you must fulfill before being TESTED

[dense moth]

i'm not a dev lol

[feral solstice]

But yeah. We did get a new animator a couple weeks ago.
MothmanMyke

[sage yew]

frustrating for those who want to just play, even if it's at best still broken, but playable

[feral solstice]

So

Im still waiting on that new programmer

[dense moth]

Yes, frustrating. Because i want to play some of the dinos and enjoy it, but i can't because they don't make any sense to me in my head

[sage yew]

feel. yes

[dense moth]

Hm, welp. I'm actually heading off now, night

[sage yew]

good night, good talk

[dense moth]

Same here, good talk!

[sage yew]

at worst, it will be like it happened with DayZ, where they stopped mid development and said "uhm, I guess it's done now" and some promised features are still missing to this day

maybe it will come up again, after the new engine is done, but my hopes are low

Bohemia?

Bohemia Interactive

oh okay, I was wondering

nvm. DayZ is a different topic