general-feedback-discussion

[tepid gate]

or even empty space

[nimble nebula]

I just feel carno should have a stun or something if it rams full force into a rock or tree with its face

[tepid gate]

Why? Because it's realistic?

[proud coral]

Actually I think they removed that

[nimble nebula]

They did

[proud coral]

I miss it. I used to do it for fun because seeing them flop was so funny

[tepid gate]

Oh that's another Utah buff that I've missed

[proud coral]

[nimble nebula]

It’s realistic and it requires player to use a little more skill instead of just able to run into things only at the cost of stam

[proud coral]

I'd just pounce a tree over and over and watch it fall over

[nimble nebula]

Fr lol

[nimble nebula]

I used my whole stam bar just pouncing into things because it looked funny

[tepid gate]

The same could go for any other attack? If you were to bite a rock or hit it with Stego's or Tenonto's tail you'd also get wounded from doing that

I don't see your point

how is one different to another?

[nimble nebula]

Your head is more important than your tail

[flint flare]

I think the point is that both ways you'll get dmg

[tepid gate]

So what? you'd still take damage but you don't

[nimble nebula]

Biting a rock vs ramming full force into one

[tepid gate]

^

[tepid gate]

Again - Tenonto's tail is slammed with almost as much force as Carno's charge produces

Stego's with even more

Not to mention - those bites also don't necessarily have much less force behind them than the charge

[nimble nebula]

But missing an attack from a charge shouldn’t go unpunished vs missing a tail slap onto a rock I get you could apply damage if you wanted sure but a stun would make more sense for ramming your skull in vs slapping your tail

[tepid gate]

why? shouldn't charge go unpunished but other attacks used with similar force behind them shouldn't?

I genuinely don't understand your argument

Do you think Carno is too strong atm or something?

Cause I think it's one of the worst animals in the game since update 5

[lapis swallow]

If he thinks that then its over for me

[flint flare]

The problem with this is you're missing the fun part of it, realism doesn't always go along with fun and if you do get fractured you'd be basically dead nevertheless.

[lapis swallow]

And the rock camping we would get with this mechanic

[nimble nebula]

I’m not saying they shouldn’t Utah pounce should be punished for missing it same goes for if troodon gets a pounce or something else I just am saying your head should punish more than your tail you even have locational damage

[queen ember]

Just make it stun the Carno temporarily like a second or two

[proud coral]

Wait what's the debate here 😮

[tepid gate]

In general it's just really bizarre, Carno's charge is already extremely easy to dodge, making it have another counterplay like standing next to an obstacle is just weird

[proud coral]

Ooooh that

I think that was confirmed for the future in the past by Punch

[tepid gate]

Carno should get damaged and a bonebreak to its skull if it charges an obstacle

[nimble nebula]

No carno is weak I just think players should have to aim more than only be at the punishment of Stam

[proud coral]

I mean I don't see a huge issue with it personally. You can just use your eyes.

[tepid gate]

So it's weak and you propose to nerf it even more?

[lapis swallow]

That is just dumb

[flint flare]

If said dinosaurs is so punished for doing it's ability wrong, shouldn't it be applied to the rest aswell?

[proud coral]

Depends but pretty much I'd say

[queen ember]

Tbf Carno already uses so much stamina to charge, a punishment for hitting s object isn’t really necessary unless we reduced the stamina used on charge

[lapis swallow]

The omni gang would like to have a talk

[nimble nebula]

It doesn’t have to be damage or bone break it could just be a second stun or something an animation anything other rehab just awkwardly stopping

[tepid gate]

Well the issue is that you could counter it even more easily, atm it can technically try to charge you while your route of escape is cut off by a rock next to you, in this case it wouldn't be able to do that as it would break its skull and get damaged/stunned and whatever if it tried charging you if you stand next to a rock

[proud coral]

I'd rather charge just not exist and be made into something better

[flint flare]

Well I mean dmg wise nothing to much

[queen ember]

Trample damage

[nimble nebula]

Yes

[tepid gate]

I don't disagree but that isn't happening anytime soon

[proud coral]

That's a generic ability though for pretty much anything

[queen ember]

Depends how it’s done

[proud coral]

I had come up with an idea for a Corno ability, lemme find it

[tepid gate]

Look, I do think it could be interesting if all the attacks backfired if they were aimed at rocks but at the same time with the lag and hitboxes in this game - I'm not sure if this is such a good idea.

[lapis swallow]

Cornotouros

[flint flare]

I agree with aken on this one, maybe once the game is more optimized this could be an idea.

[tepid gate]

And Carno's charge is already a pretty trash ability which is easily dodged unless you have multiple Carnos surrounding you

[nimble nebula]

Carnos need a buff because charge is pretty weak at the moment but if used correctly it can be pretty dangerous

[nimble nebula]

Yep

[flint flare]

Okay is it settled now?

[tepid gate]

it can be pretty dangerous when e.g. you have 2 buddies with you and you start circling a Tenonto herd like a bunch of sharks

[lapis swallow]

Carno needs a 60 minute food timer

[tepid gate]

due to the fact that its much harder to keep track of 3 Carnos at once than of just one Carno

[queen ember]

All the changes Carno really needs is to fill up in less food. Otherwise it’s pretty fine as it is

[tepid gate]

a trio of them is very dangerous because you can get charged from any side

[nimble nebula]

Carnos food drain and the amount of food they get from bodies is so hilariously bad it barely can survive it’s really sad

[tepid gate]

I think its food demand is ok, it's the whole rest that's trash

[queen ember]

Carno had a small stomach and a Utah barely fills half

[lapis swallow]

Yes, the amount of food you get from bodys is embarassing

[flint flare]

I think a utah should be able to fill ur stomach

[queen ember]

I’m fine with a fast hunger drain but it shouldn’t require so much food

[flint flare]

True

[lapis swallow]

Maybe like 60%

[tepid gate]

this animal has a poor stamina pool, poor agility, meh damage and the worst bleed resistance in the game, it's just a bad animal and it will only get worse as time goes on and the bigger animals get released.

[queen ember]

Utah should definitely fill you

[flint flare]

I think personally it should be more than 60 but ofc it also depends how low you are on food too.

[lapis swallow]

You forgot the poor looks

[tepid gate]

atm Carno is literally surrounded by things that are supposed to be its prey in the future

and it handles them not very well to put it mildly

[proud coral]

I still never got the idea behind Carno being

Dino with really bad agility
Aimed at hunting dinos with great agility

[flint flare]

"supposed"

[lapis swallow]

Its the one that is supposed to dominate the small tiers

[queen ember]

I think Carno also just needs a better variety of food options since Utah, Teno and pachy are its main options. But Utah is almost always in a pack you can’t take on

[tepid gate]

I actually think its looks are ok, it's one of the most accurate animals in the game so it's a big + from me

[lapis swallow]

It was a joke, carnos are fine

[flint flare]

Yeah

But then we have magy oh Boi

[lapis swallow]

The issue with carno that is has no competitor in its size range. Which is not healthy

[tepid gate]

Its food options aren't exactly going to be getting much better. I mean it might get some buffs in the future but as it is - this animal is doing very poorly in an environment that should be very much in its favour, as time goes on and other animals get released I think it will be just outright awful

Then again - I don't particularly like Carno and I don't think I will play it in the future

[lapis swallow]

Because being solo is very hard and being grouped you are basically playing on easy mode

[tepid gate]

so I can live with it

[flint flare]

Everybody's got their preferred main it's just that we are currently limited on it

[queen ember]

Gali, Cera, Ava, Dibble are all good things it can kill

We have so little options that you’re more likely to run into bigger groups of one animal

[tepid gate]

Yea idk about that. Dibble would probably tear it into shreds. Cerato is according to large swathes of the community supposed to bully Carno(although I find that premise rather ridiculous).

[tepid gate]

That's just how Carno was designed

Its current design is built around being in groups

[flint flare]

I personally think carno and Cera would be a lot of a 50/50 battle it'll depend how skilled you are.

[queen ember]

If you ram a dibble it’s gonna get messed up. Anyone who says Cerato will bully Carno can’t say so till we see it ingame

[tepid gate]

animals that have poor agility get more from being in groups than those that are agile

[lapis swallow]

But the fact that utahs rather hunt carnos than tenos seems weird. That thing is supposed to be their nemesis

[tepid gate]

Let me just:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/979447259697676288/990007696126247014/unknown.png

[lapis swallow]

Carno never skipped leg day

[proud coral]

I'd say like all matchups it depends. Number/number matchups always simplify stuff way too much.

[flint flare]

Whilst is true on size if Cera has this nasty bite it'll do a lot more for carno that otherwise

[tepid gate]

doesn't change the fact that Cerato is tiny, idk how hard do you think it's going to be biting

but at that size it biting just slightly harder than Carno is already being generous

[flint flare]

Not the dmg itself

[tepid gate]

oh you mean that septic bite/rotwagon thing

[flint flare]

The fact that this weird effect the bite itself will have on the carno or anything else

[lapis swallow]

Its supposed to be the honey badger of the isle and honey badgers bully lions, so that will be interesting

[flint flare]

Yes yes that

[tepid gate]

Honey badgers don't bully lions

they are hunted by them lol

[flint flare]

Don't have to nor do they need to

[lapis swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/honey-badger-honey-badger-dont-care-gif-7781563

[flint flare]

Xd

[lapis swallow]

Actually, nvm

They are still pretty tough

[tepid gate]

yea they are tough

[lapis swallow]

Dont do my boi like that

[proud coral]

Cerato with loose skin

[tepid gate]

and a lion typically won't just go for a honey badger just because

but they will die if a lion really wants to eat them

[proud coral]

Elder Cerato with looser skin

[tepid gate]

it's just how it is, in most cases they are just not worth the effort that a lion has to put into killing one

[flint flare]

So yeah while I think carno would take a Cera on bc of the Cera weird bacterial bite won't do justice for the carno so I don't think it be an easy fight nonetheless

[lapis swallow]

It would be like beating up a chicken that has studied martial arts

[flint flare]

Again for both of them

Well that will be an optional for now till we see in game

[tepid gate]

yea we will have to see I personally suspect that after Cerato comes out I will completely drop Carno in favour of Cerato even if it loses in a direct confrontation

[flint flare]

Look whatever the devs decited whilst I like carno better I don't think it should be bullied by carno nor the other way around those two dinos got bullied in legacy enough.

Cera*

[lapis swallow]

Cerato didnt give me ptsd with its 1 call (I am a utah player, I hate the carno 1 call) so I like cera more than carno

[flint flare]

Well we gotta see what they'll do with Cera in evrima

[proud coral]

Rot wagon

[tepid gate]

I don't think about them that way I just find Cerato generally more aesthetically pleasing but it's one of those animals that get so overhyped on this discord that I feel weird arguing against it all the time despite the fact that I prefer it to Carno in general.

[flint flare]

Look mate you can have you're own opinion none has the rights to judge you I personally preferred bary it is what it is but ofc once Cera drops in I would play it so much cuz I'm kinda tried of the carno now.

Tired*

[jovial scaffold]

when is the stress test?

[icy lion]

If you're referring to a public test, there isn't one. Still, the private test hasn't been announced yet

[rare fractal]

I feel the same way…but with a lot of animals including Cera.
It’s especially funny with Cera whenever teno is brought into the discussion, as if carnos speed and size aren’t the only things enabling it’s matchup with teno…whilst Cera is lacking in both comparatively, and for some reason I run into the common sentiment that Cera will perform better than Carno….
Idk it’s just bizarre, Cera is an enigma

[limber hull]

cera is getting so ridiculously hyped he's doomed to disappoint someone

because hes basically being worshipped as the solution to ALL of The Isle's "problems"

stegos, carnos? cera deals with them

bodycamping? cera somehow manages to stop animals from doing that

[rare fractal]

All of which are insanely ironic, Cera is THE apex bodycamper because he doesn’t just camp your bodies but he steels them and leaves nothing left…

Wtf is a pack of ceras doing to even the dumbest of stegos…literally the only reason Carno is able to land hits on stegos is because they’re fast…

And I’m still wondering what’s the proposal on how Cera is supposed to be the cure to carnos…..or even if it should be tbh…like why force that on it that’s just…bizarre

[limber hull]

the best cera will do against carno is offer an alternative

carno players will drop because they have a new pseudo-mid to play

and cera may appeal more to their playstyle

[rare fractal]

It’d appeal more to mine but that’s mainly because I’m bothered by how selectively overpowered Carno feels….in some cases it’s a diety amongst peasants and in others it’s dogwater

[limber hull]

the concept that the animal primarily designed to make animals leave it alone, rather than hunt things, will take down the animal that is the fastest predator in the game is kinda silly

[rare fractal]

One of the few theropods oriented towards defense being the solution to the overpopulation of a species both faster and larger than it is such a meme

[limber hull]

cera will likely be given a ton of "incentives" to leave it alone, rather than outright killing power, yet people expect it to body carno. The carno can leave at any time it pleases, because the cera ain't catching up

It's very likely that cera's strength comes defensively, and it doesn't have half the offensive power required to catch and kill carnos before they bolt off

[rare fractal]

And tbh, that’s exactly what about it appeals to me, it’s got a very interesting potential play style for a theropod and ESPECIALLY a mid to low tier, like if it’s given an ability that dramatically enhances its “stand your ground” capabilities whilst its other stats are comparatively poor it’d promote a high skill ceiling for the animal depending on the effort required to execute that ability

But for some reason when that’s brought up the response typically goes as “but Cera shouldn’t ONLY scavenge”

Which tbh….why not? But second of all, it being heavily encouraged to and optimized around taking positions and holding them doesn’t make it impossible for it to hunt things it just makes that really hard

[limber hull]

100%, a defensive carnivore, especially one of its size, sounds intensely intriguing. It isn't another generic theropod hunter, it's a defensive/bully playstyle that focuses more on space control than killing prey, which honestly makes it one of my most anticipated carnis

[rare fractal]

Same for me^

[limber hull]

Scavenge or bully, walking out to steal a utah pack's kill sounds exhilarating, and makes an animal that tends to fight other carnis, rather than hunting herbis

I really like the idea of the "leave it alone and let it do its thing" animal, there's not enough animals that give you the impression of "if I just give it what it wants, it'll leave me alone", a behaviour that I find really cool

[rare fractal]

Mhm, it’s what I imagine rex behaving like eventually if they go the route of actually making it statistically unique from giga instead of it just being the crush variant of the same animal that’s slightly slower

[limber hull]

i love the idea of cera 3-calling you over a river because it saw you eye its smelly pile of rotten flesh and thinks you're out for its food

[rare fractal]

Cerato is a Karen

[limber hull]

hyper-protective and aggressive animal, but only if you actually choose to get into its space

[rare fractal]

Perfection

[limber hull]

cera creating "territories" where it chooses to roam and disrupt other carnivores makes it a unique niche where its more the enemy of other carnivores than of herbivores. Generally, herbivores have little to worry about, since cera's lack of offensive moves will give it trouble hunting, but carnivores have to ensure that they aren't being watched as they hunt, lest a cera decide their kill is its kill

just honestly a super unique take on carnivores, it being made into generic hunter animal is a great fear of mine

[rare fractal]

Mhm, this especially is why I get so tired of the Cera VS Teno debates as if that’s even relevant to either party

[limber hull]

cera vs teno would avoid each other, because the first to make a move is the loser

[rare fractal]

They won’t interact because neither has an interest in eachother, unless out of spite, and there should be options

[limber hull]

two defensive animals clashing generally would be very unproductive for both sides, neither has the capabilities to actually do much

[rare fractal]

Well tbh I can’t see any scenario where a teno doesn’t dumpster a Cerato unless the teno is new to the game, but yes generally

[limber hull]

cera would get destroyed by kicks and tailslams because of its lighter build, teno wouldn't be able to set up a combo against a defending cera

[rare fractal]

If it’s ability gives it CC res ofc

It’d still be teno favored but again, not much of an issue since teno sucks even more than Cera at being agro

Both tactics work best when the opponent puts themselves in danger instead of you placing them in any yourself, so it’s a majority standoff unless one party loses their mind

[limber hull]

exactly

i honestly hope sucho and maybe spino also end up becoming more defensive carnivores

[rare fractal]

Spino certainly without question

[limber hull]

i really like the concept behind defensive carnivores, but cera seems to be arguably the best at it

it doesnt care what it gets, it'll eat it

[rare fractal]

Spino would absolutely outclass it as far as how effective a defender it would be, but Cerato NEEDS that niche way more

Big arms are a massive W

[limber hull]

means we have three wildly different niche for the carnivore faction of the pseudo-mids

cera, the defensive bully powerhouse, who can use water to its advantage but prefers the land
bary, the flexible animal which prefers the water but can easily accept the land
carno, the hyper-aggro speed hunter which thrives on the land and land alone

they balance each other out and provide a great deal of diversity for carnivore players in that size tier

[rare fractal]

Mhm….then we have the lovely high-mid tiers which are basically reskins of the same animal unfortunately

Save for Sucho

But Allo and Alberto are remarkably similar

I was expecting them to be way more different than they are projected to be

[limber hull]

yea

allo and alberto feel like watered down carno and cera

allo is the carno and alberto the cera

but they bleed into each other so much

like they're VERY similar animals, allo is just more focused on speed and ambushes and alberto on brawling and power

[rare fractal]

Yeah….they’re like the “spiritual successors” that missed what actually made the OGs unique

[rare fractal]

Which allo also does through pin and tackling animals larger than it regularly….while Alberto is also an ambusher…woo

[limber hull]

Yea...

IDK, I much prefer the pseudo-mid carnivores to the mid-tier carnivores

[rare fractal]

Same

[limber hull]

Hell, sucho is even a tier above the mids, being a LOT larger, so not even he redeems the mid-tier carnivore roster. We'll have to see if acro helps make the large tier actually considerably interesting whenever we get info on that

[rare fractal]

Which is odd since it's not even that difficult to diversify those mids....they just took relatively the same approach with both for....reasons

[limber hull]

I mean, quetz is large, and he's pretty interesting

Sucho, quetz and acro could be quite the fun trio of unique playstyles

[rare fractal]

The direction they've taken with quetz is really disappointing tho

The galli swoop is so cringe

[limber hull]

true

[proud coral]

Who said Quetz

Oh....um....perhaps the Galli in the concept was younger/missized? 😮

Sizes have been said to be inaccurate in concepts after all

[limber hull]

unlikely, this is quetz, a HUGE animal

compared to galli, it looked quite accurately sized

[proud coral]

Hmmm.....how much would our Galli likely weigh? 😮 Same with Quetz. I remember hearing something about Quetz possibly being 500kg but I don't know about that.

[rare fractal]

It honestly doesn't matter if it was a juvi, the proportions alone make that wack af

[limber hull]

galli weighs around 500kg, a bit over

[proud coral]

Hmm yes that is a bit odd then

[rare fractal]

Like a quetz shouldn't be picking up anything above the size of a fresh spawn carno let alone a whole ass galli

[proud coral]

I am now concerned we will get another Stego run situation where Quetzal loses all sense of weight when it grabs something

[rare fractal]

It shouldn't grab anything anyway....its so lame

[proud coral]

A grab also concerns me because of the victim's experience

We already have pin and lunge where the victim gets to do nothing and just......waits

Tis why I dislike suggestions for picking up and dropping players as a flyer. Like wow, cool, I have to wait to be flown aaaaaaall the way up, then wait as I faaaaall all the way down.

Unless it's like an execution thing where you only grab things you could kill.....but that....eh. I don't see how that'd be useful as an ability.

[rare fractal]

Nor does it make any sense why that'd be possible mid flight

Like why is it bad to necessitate a multi stage hunt regardless of the targets size

Land, sprint at target, stab stab stab, grab what you can and leave

Instead of just "lol rmb"

[proud coral]

Now that I think of it, it's also kinda contradictory to how Quetzal was assumed to hunt. What with flying, landing, then attacking like ye said 😛

Just makes it more generic I guess

I wanna run things down ;o;

[rare fractal]

I don't see how that can be considered generic when nothing else in the game hunts like it does

[limber hull]

part of me wishes we get a nocturnal owl/bat-like flyer carnivore

[proud coral]

I would say hunting like it prolly did in real life is less generic than just "swoop and snatch" 😛

[rare fractal]

Not only does it appease the paleo people but it's also a necessarily more engaging hunting style than just....again...."lmao get lunged idiot"

[rare fractal]

It's definitely far less generic than THAT

[proud coral]

Oh yeah I was saying the grab is generic

[rare fractal]

Oh ok then yeye lol.

[proud coral]

Imagining it running giraffe style is spoopier than being snatched

Unless it's a human

👖 🧥

[rare fractal]

By far....jumpscares aren't....well....scary, they're startling... it's one of the reasons I don't and will never consider deino scary, just frustrating

[proud coral]

I'd prolly find Deino more scary if adults were actually rare. Maybe one day as growth improves. An adult anything of that size should be more "MOMGETTHECAMERA" and less "oh another"

[rare fractal]

Nah, they'd be the same, just less common, nothing actually changes

It'd only become more novel

The functionality is the only reason they frustrate me, if that remains, nothing changes

[proud coral]

What if it's a juvie Stego

......no....no that'd just be funny. Their scream

I will agree lunge is very simplistic and I wish there was a way to improve it

[rare fractal]

I just wish deino didn't exist tbh...I don't find anything about it appealing aside from it's juvi and early sub phase

[proud coral]

I'd want the elder to be the current adult

[rare fractal]

I'd never want deino in any stage form or morph to be as large as it is rn

Not even elder deserves to be as awful as current deino

[limber hull]

i personally think deino is super cool

[rare fractal]

I used to

[proud coral]

Kinda non-serious but it loses coolness points to me when it's threaten goes from the sub-adult rumble hiss to the loud UUGUGUGUGUGUGU

Maybe if call intensity worked we could just tap for the sub-call

[rare fractal]

It was the same for sub rex to adult rex in legacy

Sub rexes call was so much better

[proud coral]

I think THINK maybe possibly the Rex calls were lengthened and bassified a bit. I remember hearing it in an OLD Bryan stream in ye olde recode days.

Then again they will prolly change once Rex actually arrives due to how calls work on Evrima.

[rare fractal]

Honestly a rex that roars is automatically cringe to me when put into context with how absolutely epic irl rexes rumbles were

[jagged jewel]

Would making the lunge more interactive and dynamic help?

Instead of just teleporting prey to your mouth

[rare fractal]

Tug of war mechanics quite literally are a lost cause, so what other way could that even happen?

[rare fractal]

The only way i can surmise is water clarity not being as opaque as crude oil

The only other suggestions I've heard is "stamina battle" which is basically not a mechanic

Like seriously lunge is such a painfully simplistic mechanic by necessity of the animal that uses it and the whole purpose of the ability

If it's made easier to detect it becomes significantly more difficult to use, not that it's AT ALL difficult to use already, but an animal who's only way to take down prey larger than a utah relies on it attacking from a shroud of complete invisibility...that'd make the animal much harder to play, which isn't a bad thing ofc it's far too overplayed atm, the success rates of growth are absurd

If it were up to me, I'd:
A: Downsize deino to early subadult size, meaning 3-4 tons whilst maintaining the stat scaling for that growth.
B: Completely remove lunge from the game because it's just so fundamentally awful.
C: Improve water clarity so approaches can be detected from shoreside critters before the deino's face is already munching on their ribs.
D: Give deino's a charged fracture inducing bite roughly equivalent to it's current bite damage at full charge to enhance it's skill ceiling, that can be charged in the water while sprinting, but can only be charged on land while walking trotting or not moving (Aka can't be charged on land while sprinting).

At least that's one of the potential solutions

[limber hull]

that just sounds like PoT sarco tbh

[rare fractal]

But what that would do is...well for one make it a whole hell of a lot easier to balance since now it's both not reliant on a oneshot attack that encompasses over half the games animals....and it takes it down from an apex tier to a high mid tier, meaning it'll actually have relevant matchups with Bary, sucho, and plateo if it ever makes it into the game.
As opposed to having relevant matchups with essentially nothing since spino and cheirus are likely going to be dps monsters optimized for combat with opponents around their own size given those big ass arms and builds....and that's about it

[rare fractal]

Alright, doesn't bother me much considering the fundamental differences the games have with balancing and movement, POT sarco is far better than our deino anyways, as bad as POT sarco is

[tall hearth]

Deino would have a worse time getting kills with some charge bite than the lunge. I've seen no issue with lunge. It's how I'd imagine a croc would actually kill its prey. Breaking somethings leg isnt gonna help deino bring it to the water either. Its gonna make hunting worse, as when it bites something it has to leave its environment and go on land risking death from larger predators to finish the kill off. Not fun.

Plus are you saying land animals need to see deino underwater better before it gets to them? How does that help deino players?

[analog gull]

is anyone else incredibly laggy?

literally worst frames ive ever gotten

[pine sierra]

Yes

I’m sure deinosuchus survival rate will be lowered because of baryonyx and suchomimis but you have to understand it’s not real life it’s a game not real life there a so many adult crocodiles occupying one river with no predators but themselves so I’m sure the devs have got it

[tepid gate]

Baryonyx is tiny in comparison to Deino and will probably get yeeted even by a subadult croc

Sucho is bigger and it could probably handle itself against all but adult Deinos

[proud coral]

I can see both of em dealing with the lil ones who hopefully have to lurk in dangerous areas at some point. and lettuce hope water sense is completely overhauled by then....

[tepid gate]

Deino gets way too big for Bary very quickly, it's not going to be much of a threat to it

[rare fractal]

Wait so deino would actually have to take risks when hunting instead of it being entirely safe and carefree as it is now? It’s bizarre you make that out to be a bad thing…

Plus my goal isn’t to help deino players, it’s not to help anything in particular really, I’m just identifying issues with the game and coming up with solutions for them…and currently deino is undodgeable and imperceptible unless the deino player is remarkably dumb. There is no active counterplay for deinos, you get lucky to survive drinking, that is monumentally awful for a game that demands such a colossal time sink to grow its animals with no progress made post death.
Deino hunts in a way I’d expect a gator to hunt, that doesn’t make it good…in fact most animals in this game can’t have that applied to ironically, so I don’t take it as a point of praise when one of the animals in game closely resembles the play style of the animal it draws inspiration from when that also breaks the game.

But to go over a few things, water being clear enough to see a deino coming before it breaks the surface means that deinos would actually have to use their environment to stay concealed through debris or underwater foliage, it’s realistic for deino to be concealed in brackish water up to the point it is currently, but bad for gameplay.

Lunge and by extension drowning aren’t really combat mechanics, they function identically to if the deino tapped their bite and anything with 4000 hp or lower just dies

[faint folio]

Hmm but one issue with charge bite is that deino has truly atrocious land stamina and speed, even worse than PoT sarco. The sarco at least can chase some things down a bit-- deino that is impossible currently. It has to do all of its damage up front or it will starve

[rare fractal]

Not as a subadult it doesn’t

Plus that’s fine, that limits the size of its targets without considerable numbers, if you can’t kill a teno with a broken leg before it outpaces you I’d say that’s a skill issue

[faint folio]

Speaking of starving, in PoT starving really isn't a thing for anyone because of the static corpses, so it's not as big a deal if sarco can't kill anything unless said thing is picking a fight

[rare fractal]

Well deino doesn’t deal with starvation anyway so I don’t see the difference really

Fish are abundant enough to survive on as an 8 ton adult in pairs

[faint folio]

Okay but you also have to balance for adults

[rare fractal]

Subadult would be the new adult

As in the current subadult size of 3-4 tons would be deinos new max size

Because 8 tons is absurd for what it’s playstyle is

[faint folio]

Honestly I think I'd prefer an overhaul to how lunge works as a mechanic, rather than reducing deino playstyle to "bite a bunch of times"... That's what 90% of the carnivores will end up boiling down to

[rare fractal]

Lunge is fundamentally broken as far as I can tell, stamina battle doesn’t work, and tug of war also doesn’t work, so what’s the proposal

[faint folio]

But yeah deino is absurdly tanky for something that can and is encouraged to survive with little fighting

[rare fractal]

It’s size is only a vehicle for it to oneshot more targets unfortunately, it doesn’t need it for anything else

[faint folio]

Maybe a set duration of carry-- say 3 seconds you can carry a lunged creature. Then you automatically drop

[rare fractal]

That’s better but almost the same thing, but better

[faint folio]

Or make a mini game and have the defending and offending player compete. If the defender beats the timing correctly then the deino drops the player

Clearer water would be fine too

[rare fractal]

My issue with the engagement is that it’s not interactive for both parties, it takes into account no unique benefits of the target because as long as they’re in the size range they die, this doesn’t really change that since now they’re in the water, and if you have 2 deinos nothing is surviving that

Actually nothing is surviving that anyway with body blocking being as effective as it is

[rare fractal]

Yeah regardless of the chosen fix clearer water is a must

[tall hearth]

The solution: wait for more semi aquatic playables. Not reading the wall, you're wanting to make deino a shoreline pursuit predator when clearly that's lame and not cool. Its playstyle is perfectly fine as is. We just need more animals in the roster.

At most make the lunge escapable similar to bucking, with deino taking some damage in the process. Not changing its playstyle to something that doesnt even work.

And some water I'm ok with being clearer but not all. Not all rivers and bodies of water should be clear, only some. as viewed in the short clip of beipi dolphin jumping the body of water it was in looked clear to me.

[faint folio]

Honestly if they remove lunge entirely then I don't see any benefit to clearer water. The whole point is that lunge is not interactive. And a charge bite as you're proposing already means a lot more interaction via combat because deino won't 1-shot a 4T animal. I would not want to make it much harder to sneak up on drinking animals in that case, because it would discourage interactions again. If it is too clear, players just... Wouldn't drink wherever a deino is

[rare fractal]

No I don’t want to make deino a shoreline pursuit predator, it’d still be an ambush predator fractures ensure that, the entire point when then be to take the animal down before it leaves the shoreline as quickly as possible, pursuit plays no part in that.

Also whether or not that play style would work is entirely untested, there’s no way to know currently outside of concept how effective that is.
And other semi aquatics add essentially nothing to its play style aside from giving it more things to avoid.
Spino and cheirus curbstomp it, and the rest need to stay away from it, it isn’t gonna gain matchups from the addition of aquatics

[rare fractal]

That’s why deinos would use underwater foliage and debris to actually hide instead of using the entirety of their environment, alternatively they could go deep enough to a point that can’t be seen from the surface and just sprint upwards from there

[sudden hinge]

Would this suggestion make deino faster at all? Because as it stands now it’s still decently hard to succeed in an ambush if the players drinking are paying attention. And tho it’s a neat idea I just see deino failing even more hunts

[faint folio]

I'm not opposed, but that would require a large map overhaul of aquatic environments... There really is no underwater foliage, and there's only a few spots in the whole map where the water is deep enough to hide a deino from the surface in clear water

[rare fractal]

Which is something we’re getting, has been confirmed for quite some time

Plus the next map has lakes, water depth won’t be an issue

[tall hearth]

Spino and cheirus would keep adults in check more than they are now. Bary and sucho would keep juvies thru sub in check. The drought system keeps all populations in check, and if a croc has to move from one body of water to another a lot of the land animals would do their job of hunting deinos. Once these checks are in (and I'm sure deino will get some lunge balancing/tune up in the future, no way its "perfect" rn by dev standards) I'm sure you won't have as many complaints about deino.

[sudden hinge]

It’s definitely a more interactive idea for deino I just want it to be effective enough so deinos can still succeed

[faint folio]

Yeah that's what I'm concerned with as well. I agree current lunge is bad, but it's already pretty difficult to make sure you're in the right place at the right time for an ambush, and I don't want deino to be nerfed into kinda unviable like carno currently is (good heavens it's food drain is insane-- good luck finding enough at night)

[rare fractal]

How do Barry’s keep deinos in check? Is Barry THAT fast underwater? Is Sucho even good underwater? I thought it was a wader, and how would spino and cheirus keep the adult populations in check, are they going to be faster than it underwater? Like it seems that deinos population control is predicated on it being easy to catch when I couldn’t see that being further from the truth

[sudden hinge]

Yeah same like fluffs idea is cool I just want the effectiveness in hunting to remain similar to it is now

[rare fractal]

Tbf deino is an animal that should have a very low hunting success rate, it’s hunting style relies on the ignorance of the target and getting the engagement over quick, I want this element of its hunting style to be made actually skill expressive, but because of the nature of it, it should have a relatively low success rate compared to something like attrition hunting….etc…
Tho I also want failed hunts to be more common, deino honestly has one of the highest hunting success rates in the game, death during a hunt as some of the land based carnis is very common because of how much more skill expressive and lengthy those hunts are, deino lacks both of those dangers unless it’s trying to take a stego down, which is still VERY lacking in skill expression, hence why I’d want it to have a comparatively lower success rate

Actually preying on oblivious players instead of any player at the shore of a body of water

[limber hull]

Y'know, a better way to deal with deino is not to make it just worse at what it does in every way and overall a playable not a single person would want to play (because playing a slow gator that only sometimes can actually kill its prey and can't even drown the prey it tries to kill isn't very appealing), just diversify water sources. Have shallows, clear water, isolated lakes, then make creatures that gravitate to them to ensure that they aren't exploited.

Hell, have weather exist to consistently change how the water sources look around the map and how creatures interact with them. Rather than taking what people like about deino and removing all of that, have it that deino is only one of many potential threats from many potential water sources

[proud coral]

Utah: enters water

Water: 🟫🟫🟫🟫

[rare fractal]

All of the alternative play styles from both myself, Ice, and Cerato sound more fun than current deino, deino being as good at what it does currently is what prevents me from playing it, I like having to try…

Tho diversified water sources does help greatly

[tall hearth]

Wait you havent played deino?

[rare fractal]

I’ve played deino a lot….

I wouldn’t know it’s easy to play if I hadn’t

[sudden hinge]

Like I get that and I agree but I still think in relatively deinos aren’t that successful from my experience especially when they cluster. The idea is really neat and definitely adds a lot more skill to deinos kit but I just worry that it could push players from playing it if ambush success takes even more of a hit because you don’t gurantee a kill

Like surviving as deino easy af

[faint folio]

The problem is that the rivers have too many spots to drink at-- yes deinos have a lot of food and take a while to starve, but in my experience unless you subsist mainly on fish you only get 1-2 opportunities to get a kill before your stomach is empty. In order to have a higher failure rate you also need to increase the number of potential interactions with deinos so a failed hunt or two doesn't mean starving

[sudden hinge]

But enjoyable ambushes are fairly limited with how wary players are lol

[rare fractal]

Good, it’s an apex it SHOULD be hard to play, and if it has relative ease living in the water, even with threats like spino or Sucho, it’s hunting strategy should be the thing holding it back because nothing else does

[rare fractal]

Well, no not necessarily, a hunt can fail before it even really begins, if the conditions were too poor to even really attempt that’s still a failed hunt

[sudden hinge]

That’s fair it definitely would show you the difference between who’s a good deino and not haha

[tall hearth]

Surviving is easy because the population checks arent in place yet. More aquatics, droughts, and varied water sources should keep deinos populations in check.

[proud coral]

Most hunts fail in nature. 🙂

.....Doesn't really add anything to the topic, just a fun fact. though I really like the idea of that translating into the game instead of "I MUST WIN EVERY TIME"

[rare fractal]

More hunts should fail tbh

[proud coral]

Hunts should be hunts and not "lemme run up to this thing and try to win in like 1 minute"

Reward patience and strategy

[faint folio]

Well yes. But for example. On my deino if I swim through central at the most popular crossing points, I MIGHT see 2-3 dinos crossing or drinking per hour. During that time I HAVE to kill at least one of them, or I will starve. And that is at the most popular place on the map, in areas I know are used frequently because on other dinos I cross there with random groups all the time

[sudden hinge]

I feel like deinos hunt fail a decent amount especially when they cluster ambushes are near impossible at that point

[rare fractal]

The only aquatic that can really threaten an adult deino is an adult deino even in a completed roster unless the deino literally can’t swim away, which in the case of droughts just make it a bag of meat waiting to die, which isn’t a good population check, I’d still want the deaths of players to be their fault rather than majority random circumstance

[proud coral]

I'd blame that on the map and lack of proper flow for players to move around

[faint folio]

Whereas if I got more interactions-- 5-6 interactions per hour, or so, I wouldn't mind hunting being more difficult, and failing 80% of the time

[rare fractal]

And most of that is because river crossings aren’t mandatory, the only reason you’d ever take that route in center is as a shortcut but you can get anywhere on the map without risking contact with deinos

[tall hearth]

I'm not saying deino dies to everything. I'm saying the apexes would push adults out of the area. Depending on fish spawns they may starve like actual animals. Not every check ends with someone getting killed.

[rare fractal]

There’s also something to be said about that just being deinos playstyle….having relatively low interactions but incredible environmental survivability

[faint folio]

Exactly. But you cannot do the changes you propose to deino without those map changes first or deino will become unviable. Right now it really, really requires a high hunt success rate because the 1 interaction it may get is it's only chance to avoid starving without fish

[proud coral]

Gateway, save us

[rare fractal]

Oh well now we’re getting into new territory with our population checks being the availability of fish, because currently unless you’re literally following something eating every fish in their path you’ll always find some, they’re everywhere

[rare fractal]

Oh ofc, that was always the plan, and considering the map is coming VERY soon I thought this one of the best times to discuss it

[proud coral]

I just love the idea of water clarity combined with stuff like migration/preferred regions actually existing creating things like Beips and Austros just relaxing in clearer ponds, maybe the uncommon Bary here and there. Suchos can be found around deltas and rarely deeper lakes perhaps. Deinos lurk beneath muddy, murky water. Etc.

[rare fractal]

Aquatics actually having biomes instead of just…..water

[proud coral]

Creatures in general having actual biomes instead of just.....hotspots

[rare fractal]

We can only hope

[proud coral]

Hope

[rare fractal]

So far the new map doesn’t appear to have much of it from what we’ve seen so hopefully they’re hiding a LOT from us

[tall hearth]

Some areas of rivers have very little fish and are hard for deino adults to survive. And I just used fish as an example. The fish populations would be tied in to how many aquatics or fish eaters there are in an area and the season. I imagine droughts would affect available food too depending on the area. Being pushed out of a good area by an apex like spino or cheirus or even a large group or sucho or barys out into a bad area is a possible situation. Hell even other deinos will help keep deinos in check, providing they're still in their own diet.

[proud coral]

I mean we had Dondi encountering Tuba.wav and having him panic over it. There is prolly a lot unseen

[rare fractal]

Bary and sucho are never going to be a threat to deino unless the sucho's are in a group of three, but otherwise yes, and this is good, doesn't change much of how I see deino's success rate in a hunt tho since that's entirely based on it's hunting methods instead of it's survival circumstances

[limber hull]

New map already has a new swamp and lake environments

[pine sierra]

I’m sure they will going with a positive vibe

[proud coral]

Bigger carnivores/herbivores doesn't actually fix anything. It just adds to the problem of having our "smalls first" roster contain big things.

If ye add something to counter Stego for instance, what counters that? If they both balance each other out, then why would anyone play anything else?

[tepid gate]

It fixes the roster being boring like hell.

[tepid gate]

If people care only to play the biggest and most powerful creatures then so be it. If the smaller playables aren't made interesting enough to keep people playing them then they don't deserve to be played either way.

[proud coral]

I kinda disagree with that. I'd rather they flesh out smaller stuff first before moving onto the big lads, which has already been said before 😛 It was actually in a stream once.

Summed up, they know what the big guys are capable of. And in Evrima, they'll be even better. So they have to make sure smaller lads have good gameplay first.

[tepid gate]

big doubt on the "in Evrima they'll be even better" part

you have to go really out of your way to make bigger animals good in Evrima compared to legacy

any big animal right now would get absolutely butchered by a Utah pack

Stego and Deino are the sole exceptions due to the enormous control of area coming from the former and the borderline invulnerability to bleed of the latter

[proven river]

@zealous violet , that's essentially what the cycads will do in Gateway

small animals can go in and larger ones will have a harder time or can't maneuver through them and bees will attack the larger dinos

[rare fractal]

I do think that a lack of playership for a critter is closely correlated with how integrated it is with the rest of the game, what kind of options it provides for you...etc

[limber hull]

That's def true

Look at dryo and hypsi, these animals were added with either less mechanics than their peers or mechanics that generally don't make them feel any more interesting than another choice

[rare fractal]

And there's certainly an aesthetic element but I don't think a bias towards large powerful carnivores isn't only because of "I want to be the thing that kills because it needs to, and I'm outfitted with the tools to do so" as much as it is "needing to kill others to survive and having the tools to do so provides me with a lot of engagement opportunities that I'm encouraged to partake in by the game"

[rare fractal]

Mhm, especially since dryo is quite literally a statistically worse adult utah with no ability

[limber hull]

Dryo lacks combat, but also lacks any unique stats, abilities or moves that make that more mobile playstyle fun. The dodge is clunky, slow and quite honestly pretty useless, considering dryo's base mobility tends to make it much better in a chase. A dryo is almost just a basic character controller with a diet and a dodge that is worse than just running.

Hypsi lacks many of its key features. It doesn't grow, can't climb yet, its spit is yet to see any real utility and its nest building isn't as indepth as it can be.

What's worse is that these shortcomings have soured the entire idea of extra-small animals, which DO have a great deal of mechanical depth, but aren't reflected well in their current main representatives

They're going a good direction with dryo's upcoming ability rework which changes it into a short-range dash (infinitely more interesting than a clunky dodge that cancels your momentum), but more can be done (burrows or even a nocturnal playstyle could make this animal infinitely more interesting). Ideally, hypsi will get some love along with herrera to make that animal more worth the time of the players, but we'll have to wait and see

[rare fractal]

Mhm that's certainly true, tho I can still understand the want for animals in the mid range, they are FAR easier to design with a variety of engagements as opposed to animals that are massive, or animals that are really really small....in short the mid sized animals have the best ratio of speed to size that allows them to escape from, but also fight off MANY animals at a similar balance

[rare fractal]

Yeah dryo's dash is SO much better than it's dodge

[limber hull]

I'm a big fan of their leaning towards the smaller animals having fun mobility options. Beipi and dryo having crazy movement tech would make them a lot more enjoyable for me, as someone who loves good movement in games

[rare fractal]

I'm hoping it can be used in tandem with jump in some way to make it's leaps further as well... that'd at least give it a leaping edge over omni

Which both has a better jump and barely worse stam

[limber hull]

If you can combo your speed into a momentum-boosted jump for a longer distance, that would be incredible

Clearing rivers to escape predators, for instance

If dryo can end up basically accelerating and quickly changing its direction on a dime, it'll be a LOT more fun of an animal

Mobility = fun

[rare fractal]

In dryo's case absolutely

[pulsar badger]

Can we please add a "Suicide" function to the esc menu? I often mess up and get stuck in a rock, mesh, or any random place, or just want to swap dinos, and having to starve to death or drown myself is a bit crazy long winded after a bit.

[faint folio]

Yeah... Honestly I think part of the key to making non-combat built dinos (ptera, dryo, hypsi, galli, etc) interesting, is adding another level of problem solving to the game.

The issue is, the isle really has limited problems to solve, and most are very simplistic, especially for herbivores. Sniff, walk to food/water, eat/drink. Bing bang boom, that's all that's required to survive at a basic level, and that's pretty easy.

So then... What do you do for the 20 minutes before you have to eat again? Well, you could sit and chat, but then there are better outlets than a dino survival game for people who want to talk. You can nest, but at least for right now there's no real gameplay loop around nesting-- no grinding for special skins or perks, etc. So there's little motivation for most people to do it. And then there's hunting other players. Literally outsmarting or outplaying other people. That's a huge, complex, interesting problem to be solved, and a lot of people enjoy fighting because of the challenge involved. First, gotta know how to find prey. Then plan the attack to maximize your abilities and win against another person who is intelligently changing their strategy to counter yours in real time. Then you get a tangible reward via a body to eat. There's a gameplay loop there. And it's semi interesting.

But then if you use super small dinos, they lose the combat niche. And then they're boring because they don't have another task which makes players think critically to achieve the goal of survival to the same extent

[rare fractal]

That's essentially where I'm at with the smalls, they just lack skill expression in their downtime generally, even with additional miscellaneous tasks to complete, I don't want any "nest 5 dinos to recieve X skin"....because that kind of arbitrary grinding is just that...arbitrary grinding, it's not expressive of skill but attrition in engaging with systems that aren't interesting to players...it's one of the reasons I can't stand to play POT, even as a vehicle to reach larger sizes and have more abilities accessible, objectively enhancing the power of your animal, and I still can't stand to engage with questing. So if players struggle with simply walking to and from different locations to see tangible power increases in their critter, what could the isle hope to do by approaching with a similar model? Ofc this is hypothetical, it's a route I hope isn't taken...but I'm struggling to uncover ways to fix this issue.

The best suggestion I can think of is to REALLY partition the biomes where small animals are effective and where larger animals are effective so that the crossover isn't as aggregious, and the smalls can primarily be balanced around their own category instead of EVERYTHING.... Like as it stands I have no clue how minmi is going to survive even WITH it's inflated set of abilities (which btw I have no issue with critters having a range of abilities that vast, in fact I wish that was more common, but the abilities minmi has don't really service the animal in unique ways as much as it enables minmi to exist in an environment that it would otherwise get annihilated in, regardless of what makes it unique)

[limber hull]

Smaller animals, tbf, aren't really designed to be action all the time

Low food requirement and access to safer spaces means these little guys can just evade danger and chill out

Larger animals, being as demanding of attention as they are (both from the player and the players around them), obviously will be more action-oriented, this is inevitable

[rare fractal]

Which makes them less engaging and gives them less to do

Plus they could be just as action packed but within their own size range if they're designed to be

[limber hull]

But smalls, when they do experience an exciting situation, often experience it tenfold to larger animals, since your opponent is more than likely a goliath to you and is utterly terrifying, it's a two-way street. As a small guy, being caught out of your element by a giant predator is one of the most exhilarating parts of this game.

The best way to encourage more people to play smalls is to give them more to do in the downtime. Fun things like engaging movement, burrow building, egg-snatching, tree-climbing or even chasing commotion to set up your own little ambush or interact with others creates more to do in that downtime and potentially sets you up for the big payoff

People absolutely will play beipi because the allure of spending downtime diving off rocks and dolphin diving through bodies of water is engaging enough to be worth the quieter periods

[rare fractal]

I don't know....I've never felt particularly excited by a carno chasing me when I'm playing dryo, I feel like that'd apply if you literally WERE that animal and experienced that firsthand but the game elicits more utilitarianism out of me than most other games because of the consequences for failure, like a complete loss of progress on death, like I tend to get a more sensational experience from the game when I'm not playing something so vulnerable because it actually allows me to be immersed instead of constantly planning

[limber hull]

Activities like building a high-up nest in the canopies of trees as a hypsi, diving and swimming around as a beipi in a little diving hole you found for yourself, learning new calls to copy as troodon, burrow building and customising as ANY of the burrowers, so on, these little tasks can make these animals infinitely more fun and interactive

[rare fractal]

They can....maybe, but I've never experienced these so I have quite literally no idea how replayable those activities would be

[limber hull]

This is of course not covering other tasks like basic survival for elders or migrations with U6, which do help manage both downtime and activity quite well

[rare fractal]

Depends if they're actually fun or not

Like I thought diets would be fun before they were added....

So I approach things in the game more cautiously now

[limber hull]

Being able to customise your own animal to tailor to a desired niche with U7's perks or even arguably U6's new diet paths will def create at least a good portion more replayability and enjoyability to runs of these animals, as well as aiming for the goal of elder and the rewards that come with it

[rare fractal]

Depends if achieving those benefits is fun or not, or if the niches one can achieve are as engaging as your basal niche, and if said perks effect the balance of the game....all of which have the capacity to aid and kill investment, and I can't predict which it will be

[rare fractal]

@frail tartan On it's face, what you're proposing makes surviving bleed impossible so what do you mean?

[frail tartan]

i mean that even if your clotting your bleed from wallowing you still die so whats the point

if u sit you still die theres no point

bleed is dumb and needs fixing

[rare fractal]

Oh ok, may want to clarify that you're advocating for bleed to be more manageable because I read that as you advocating for clotting your bleed to not stop bleed damage xD

[frail tartan]

i got mashed by utahs at mudpit and clotting my bleed and sat down and still bled the hell out

[rare fractal]

Yeah that's....odd....not sure why plugging your wounds wouldn't stop you from bleeding

[frail tartan]

they also had a ptera with them so thats fun

[rare fractal]

Ptera as a whole needs some seriously looking into, it's basically a juvi utah that doesn't do bleed but you literally can't stop it from damaging you

It's so bad

[frail tartan]

yea

need ways to counter it besides hoping that in runs into you

or into a tree

Pov: you lost your perfect diet adult carno to utahs when your sat down and blood clotted 🙂

[rare fractal]

The utah/carno relationship in game is already....really bizarre...especially with how easy utahs ability is to use and use with complete safety

We don't need a last act of defiance mechanic thrown in there as well

[frail tartan]

fighting utahs at night doesn't help at all either with night time being the stupidest thing ever made

cant see for nothing

[rare fractal]

I just log at night, it's a waste of time

[frail tartan]

thats sad

thats how you know the night time is bad

when ppl rather log then play the game

wrong dev lol

[rare fractal]

Don't @ the devs just to be safe

It's in the rules not to outside of punch, wouldn't want you to get yeeted

But yeah night is kinda lame

[limber hull]

I personally think night is really cool

[rare fractal]

Night only makes the game uglier more boring more tedious and riskier for me, so I have 0 reasons to engage with it

[barren crater]

Same

[barren crater]

I don't see the point of night currently. No difference in range for any of the creatures, so we're all seeing the same thing. Which makes me wonder why they even made it darker than update 4 nights

I guess it helps stegos grow better??? But apart from that, the overall experience is worse.

Idk, it just annoys me since night can be so much better

[rare fractal]

Yeah....I guess it's a balancing mechanism for....troodon? Which is funny because troodon has enough going for it as it is, having a pounce, speed, venom, low growth time...etc.
But I'd much rather be able to see at night and enjoy the game instead of adding a universal vision limiting balance mechanism...idk it's just...eh

If there is to be a balancing mechanism around nighttime I'd want it to be based on shadows instead of just the entirety of nighttime

Like you can see akin to U4 nights when in direct moonlight, but trees or cliffs casting shadows would be the thing that changes with NV aptitude

[barren crater]

My thing is. Plains is dark, waters are dark, forests are dark. It's just all dark

[rare fractal]

Yeah that's why I wish it was shadow centric...so the open plains that are receiving direct moonlight would actually be relatively easy to see in

[barren crater]

Yeah exactly. Plains on a full moon should be clear for these creatures, while anything less obviously diminishes visibility.

[rare fractal]

Makes being a forest dino an actual advantage at night

[barren crater]

Exactly. I hope we get better nights. Nights are cool. Current nights aren't. But we'll get those

[rare fractal]

I'm so done with the sight radius NV, it needs to die, so hopefully we do

[barren crater]

Hopefully we get changes soon

[lucid mauve]

I always predict soon wrong in the isle progress : P

[valid elk]

Man, didn't think so many people would agree with my Pteranodon thing

[flint flare]

Didn't know that poseidon needed a giga xD

[burnt bone]

I can give you plenty of ways minmi can survive encounters with its abilities.
The hunker bunker (burrow yourself into the ground like in top left of concept) allows you to get a quick, but temporary, escape. If you hunker bunker in a bush, most things will lose you. If they do find you, then wait and burst out quickly and make another run for water.
It’s ability to be semi aquatic also negates a large portion of the roster, since it can just run to water and escape. And most the other semi aquatics are much larger (so it can likely run faster) or smaller (so it doesn’t have much to worry about).
Lastly, it has burrow, so whatever it can’t run from, it can easily hide from.

I don’t see a single scenario where minmi can’t escape unless it’s in the middle of the plains with no cover or water.

And in my eyes, that’s what makes minmi seem very fun. Using the right tools at the right time seems very interesting.

[flint flare]

Technically if it's done right any dinosaur could be unique and fun to play.

[proud coral]

🥲

Everything having the exact same NV makes night a bit more boring to me since there's not really anything you can take advantage of. But of course, that is temporary until 6.5.

[burnt bone]

Exactly, which is why I hate the “let’s remove 1/3rd of the roster because it’s redundant” mindset.

[flint flare]

That's what I'm saying

[proud coral]

Mmmhm. Plus people tend to forget not everything's gonna be in the official experience. Other servers could make their own experiences

[flint flare]

I hate the whole acro looks too similar to giga so remove him??? Wth why just cuz he looks similar doesn't mean he has to have the same game style or play??

[feral solstice]

@rare fractal FLUFF

[icy lion]

@flint plinth

[flint plinth]

oh

never saw this ty

[fathom cliff]

update 6 this year still?

[limber hull]

devs havent said otherwise yet

[frank osprey]

Can anyone ping me why we haven’t heard from kissen on the last devblogs?

[limber hull]

shes on vacation iirc

@mellow acorn you realise we have gotten humans once before, right?

[flint flare]

So what do we think of the new dev blog that dropped I just saw it now so?

[uneven mist]

It’s good enough, was a little barebones but that’s what usualy happens when we are at the last stage of development for the update

[urban flax]

Then it's a good sign

[uneven mist]

Yeah it is

[faint folio]

@glad dirge trample damage is one thing that I either don't want to see at all or want handled extremely carefully. It's one mechanic from PoT that I rather dislike, because the smallest size difference and you can plow over another dino, including a member of your group who is 20 seconds behind in growth. Also it makes it so that small dinos don't usually dare to mess with large ones because they frequently die to smush instead of actual skill on the part of the large dinos. Combined with their usually low health and damage, it means you rarely see dinos smaller than mid tier

While small dinos should think twice about fighting an apex, I'd rather it be because the threat of dying to the apex's high damage attacks is a deterrent, and not just the weight difference= smush if you get too close

[glad dirge]

I thought about this a little bit and I think trample damage should only be given to specific herd-reliant running herbivores such as maia. I don't think every dino should get trample damage

I also think it could be interesting if trampling is only active if you are running together in a herd similar to that of wildebeest.

But I 100% agree

[cyan flame]

If you're going to have trample damage, it should apply to everything. There's no logic in giving only x or y animal an ability that makes sense for everyone.

[mellow acorn]

We got a human mock-up for scale yeah

[ionic grail]

found a speed hacking stego in center eu1 he killed me as a 84% GROWN STEG

[icy lion]

Please ping the official server admin role in #evrima-eu whenever you believe you've found a hacker. This channel is for discussing posts shared in #general-feedback

[faint folio]

I think it depends. Minimally I think trample should only cause damage if the receiving animal is less than X% of the giving animals weight. Eg if a 6T stego runs into a 0.5T pachy, the pachy would get hurt. But a sub stego at 5T probably shouldn't get trampled-- it's too big to really properly trample. But then you run into issues like-- deino is 8T, so it wouldn't take damage. But a stego probably should be able to trample deino because it's so low to the ground! And the opposite is true as well-- despite being much heavier I don't see a deino being able to trample much of anything because it isn't easily going to step on any dinos because it's so low set

I suppose you could do something like trample only does damage if a dino is knocked prone

[cyan flame]

I'd personally imagine it's a combination of weight and height, precisely for the reasons you stated. Though you could argue sheer weight just.. knocks the thing over and thus it gets trampled. But it's more so finding a good way to handling it, while my point was that it makes sense to give it to everything. After all, a deino could trample a smaller deino or well, any other small thing most likely. Or do something like that yes, if you run into something with sufficient weight advantage, it gets knocked down/over and thus gets trampled. Would make it more reasonable.

But it would make sense that a rex just .. walks over a bunch of troodons. Also we need "trample" damage if you sit on something!

Since collision does allow for that, still, for some reason. Just, you're a tiny hypsi, and this fully grown stego just lays down on top of you. I imagine that'd make for a hypsi pancake :p

[faint folio]

And a trample mechanic would disadvantage smaller dinos more than they already are in a fight against apexes. Rather than encourage apexes to actually express skill, all they need to do is walk close enough. For example-- if a large pack of Utah want to eat a trike. All the trike would have to do is run around, and especially if desync is bad random Utah's would likely be knocked down or smushed. I don't know that that is a particularly enjoyable mechanic for gameplay that allows more skill expression from the apex player

As the lower tier dino already has to dodge the apexes normal attacks, I don't see trample really enhancing their skill expression greatly

[proud coral]

If you don't wanna get trampled, I'd say just don't stand right next to the giant multi-ton creature.

Even for stuff like Utahs that have to get up close and pounce, nothing is requiring you to stay right next to something's feet 😛

[cyan flame]

To be fair, if a small dino gets trampled by an apex, that's very much a skill issue on the part of the smaller dino. You can juke carnos, there's no excuse for not being able to avoid the feet of a rex or something. And if you do have the ability to punch up like that, you probably don't do so by nibbling their ankles anyway. I'd say adding trample does add another factor to take into account, more so on the smaller ones side, but I don't see that as a bad thing honestly.

[proud coral]

👍

[faint folio]

The issue is none of the attacks are ranged, so... Unless smalls always run away, they don't have much choice to not stand next to a giant multiple ton creature

[cyan flame]

I.. honestly do not see any vaguely competent omni being "ran over" by a trike.

I get your concern, but that honestly does not strike me as something that'd happen. It's like how shant could have the ability to run and knock things over and then stomp them. That's not going to land on anything but something equally big and slow unless the target is asleep.

[proud coral]

What's wrong with running away from something much, much larger than you? 😮

[cyan flame]

If you make trample so it only works under the thing trampling you, you could still harass and attack flanks/rear pretty well?

[faint folio]

It really depends on hitbox. In path of Titans, which has the mechanic and which I'm basing my experience off of, if you stand anywhere remotely close to an apex that is moving you can get smushed even if you're just running next to/behind it under it's tail to bite

[cyan flame]

Yes well, I don't think we should compare implementation of the mechanic

Same reason I dislike people that go "but sideways/backwards walking looks so dumb in PoT", yes, that's PoT. Doesn't meant it'll look like that in the Isle.

[proud coral]

Well just because one game does it very poorly doesn't mean the mechanic itself is doomed to be bad 😛

That's how people treat temperature. They use games that do it poorly and use that as an excuse for it to not be added.

[cyan flame]

Maybe PoT has issues with hitboxes, they also have a different kind of collision I believe.

[faint folio]

Nothing innately, BUT the issue is that outside of fighting, there's very few things to do at the moment. We don't need another mechanic that will make apexes more popular and smalls less popular than they already are

[cyan flame]

And last I checked, you kind of "bounce off" someone else and all that

[cyan flame]

This is true, but this is a different issue.

[proud coral]

I'd say that's less a trample issue and more a game loop (or lack of) issue

Because I definitely agree we n e e d non-combat activities. Especially while growing

And of course for growth itself to be improved.....

[faint folio]

Yeah... But I am worried they'll look at the ability, go "oh getting stepped on by a rex sounds like it would really improve the horror aspect" add it, and ignore the other issue for downtime activities and puzzles, resulting in a meta that really encourages playing apexes so you don't have to mess with trample

[cyan flame]

I don't think they'd just add trample like that out of nowhere, much less add it before the very much more needed gameloop

Besides, I'd not say it adds horror, just adds more to combat/interaction and can be used for interaction with envrioment as well perhaps

Also would add a bit more to defending your offspring, and not just "walk right next to/under parent" :p

[feral solstice]

Wait, what’s the discussion about?

[cyan flame]

Trample, yay or nay, and the effects it'd have on smalls vs apexes and so on.

[rare fractal]

I feel like we’re tackling loads of non-sequiturs here:
Trample doesn’t add a layer of horror as the purpose of its implementation, I don’t think it’s necessarily scarier to get stepped on than chomped on, it’s a utilitarian change that’d be made as compensation for how badly apexes would be able to handle faster smaller threats, like currently I have no clue how a rex or an Acro would handle Utahs, especially since they have pounce on their side.
Another would be the lack of connection between trample damage and the ratio of apex players to smalls….giving apexes a mechanic they simply should have shouldn’t cause a tank in the numbers for smaller dinos, that’s like saying stego’s player base would be smaller if it didn’t have a tail swing…like yeah it’s missing a crucial part of its kit ofc it won’t be as played, and it having that trait would increase its numbers.
There’s also something to be said about smaller Dino’s lacking the capability to influence apexes significantly, if your goal is to fight apexes as something smaller than them, play a mid tier, don’t play dilo or Utah.

[cyan flame]

Or play a small that has options aside from "nibbling ankles", which Omni and possibly Dilo does (if it only needs that one bite for venom).

[rare fractal]

One of the main reasons why small tiers are fast is to avoid the threats they can’t directly contend with…unfortunately the devs have borderline only added small tiers that specialize in attacking much larger things than themselves, like Utah and Troodon, but even their prey range needs limits

[cyan flame]

I figured trample would be more so for things just not sitting around your feet, and having to move out of your way if you're on the move. No more dryos stopping in front of my running stego and stopping me because they like to behave like cats.

[rare fractal]

It’d also be really funny to see an Omni miss a pounce while you’re running and you just smoosh them

[cyan flame]

I'd rather see the annoying dryos go away. I still have lingering frustration concerning their habit of being annoying during "migration" as teno.

[feral solstice]

“I’m gonna try to stay in between your legs so you can prote-“

[cyan flame]

Yes. As it should be. Have proper defensive techniques instead. Also learn which critters are good at defending and which ones are not. And plan and act accordingly.

I've been successfully defended from two omnis by an adult stego as baby stego because he knew how to go about it properly and taught me what to do and not do.

[feral solstice]

Adult stegos are unpredictable, I find it hilarious when a baby stego decides to stay in between it’s legs without realizing how wide the jab is

[tepid gate]

I think there should be no claw attacks for Spinosaurus and Suchomimus in the game because they have those in PoT and they look bad there.

[limber hull]

okay but that's PoT

[cyan flame]

Excellent point!

[cyan flame]

And that's the point isn't it. That people use how it works/looks in PoT as an argument for how it could and should be in the Isle when that's not relevant.

[tepid gate]

https://tenor.com/view/lion-king-the-scar-precisely-gif-12215653

[limber hull]

oh i dont like walking sideways or backwards in The Isle, but it has nothing to do with looks

[tall hearth]

They'll prob look good here. At its base Pot is a mobile game ported to different consoles and PC, so ofc its gonna look bad lol

[tepid gate]

and I... hmm let me think - oh I don't like animals being able to turn in place

[tall hearth]

How would you want them to turn?

[tepid gate]

idk ask Wave about how he'd want them to move back or to the side and use that answer to extrapolate what my answer should be here

[tall hearth]

Why cant you just tell me your answer.?

[tepid gate]

Think why, it should be pretty goddamn obvious

[tall hearth]

Why do I gotta ask someone else to know what your answer is

It's not tho? What am I missing

[tepid gate]

You're missing the fact that I obviously want them to be able to both be able to turn in place and walk backwards and sideways, every animal alive is capable of doing all those things and making them unable to do any of that is equally absurd.

[limber hull]

im pretty sure we're both aware that not every animal alive is capable of doing those things

[tepid gate]

every relevant animal

every relative of non-avian dinosaurs can do all of those things

[tall hearth]

I mean I'd like that too, but if it hurt the balance of the game in any way than I'd rather them not. Maybe once larger animals besides stego get in or more of the roster are added we'd be able to judge if sideways and backwards movement is a good idea.

[tepid gate]

it wouldn't

and yes it is a good idea

[tall hearth]

How are you sure tho

[tepid gate]

not having it is utterly and completely absurd

it's the same kind of garbage argument that people that hated alt turn used against the movement in Evrima "it's going to break the balance", not it isn't, it's going to make the balance better

[tall hearth]

I'd say that's an important question to ask the devs when they pop in general for Q&A every now and then or even put it in the feedback if it isnt already

[limber hull]

i dont believe that walking sideways or backwards is nearly anything like the ability to alt-turn

[tall hearth]

I'd love to have more movement, but its unclear to us at least if it would hurt the balance or not. I dont think it would either but im not a dev so who knows why it's not in or planned.

[cyan flame]

I know, I didn't mean you specifically. But people have argued like that before. Which was the point we were making. I know you disagree for other reasons, and you know I disagree with your take on stego and so on. :p

[tall hearth]

Ik it would be quite a bit of work tho, adding 3 directional animations to existing animals would take time they dont really have atm. Players are already getting frustrated about the lack of new dinos since pachy, no reason to take more time now animating that over new dinos and other content

[tepid gate]

Oh, they've answered that question already

they didn't want to complicate the controls

they said that in very early Evrima ~mid 2020

[tall hearth]

Fair enough I suppose

[burnt bone]

You also need to remember, 9 times out of 10, if you can trample something, you can hit it. So that Omni would just be hit by an attack anyway if it somehow was in trample range.

[faint folio]

In that case, why have trample if an attack can also work?

[faint folio]

I mean.... That or they could not give an animal that should be able to turn on a dime the turn radius of a semi-truck (real animals mostly can turn in place on land!). And then they could handle faster smaller threats fine.

And the comparison between trample damage and stego swing is apples to oranges, because removing the tail swing would decrease the playability of the dino whose attack changed. Giving apexes trample would heavily decrease other dinos playability. As you said yourself, smaller dinos already largely lack the ability to influence apexes significantly because of their much lower health and damage-- they don't need another debuff. Look at stegos vs utahs-- it's a solid 0.5-1 hour fight usually, and a lot of times if the stego gets to a tree or up on a rock or cliff, the Utah's have to give up. And even if they don't usually stegos kill a good chunk of the pack before they die. I suspect something very similar will happen with other apexes. And that's not accounting for the fact that mid tiers and apexes already tend to be more popular than small dinos.

This is all to say that yes, while there are definitely better matchups for fighting apexes, I don't think they need to disadvantage smaller dinos more than they already are, especially since Utah is going to be better than average against apexes with trample due to pounce and not all smalls have that mechanic

[cyan flame]

Except stego has a way to defend itself (even if its kind of terrible at it as it stands), or at least catch a dismounting omni at times (if youre lucky and the omni is unaware of aiming dismount), the rest does not. So not sure that says all that much about how it will go. If trike was in right now, it'd just die.

[burnt bone]

So you can’t have like a pachy hide under a Shant after it broke something else.

[cyan flame]

And the fact that you need to rely on terrain to be vaguely capable of fighting of the smalls is an issue all of it's own. Trample would just add to the ability of having to be wary around anything bigger, which you should. Engaging it in fights or not really.

[jovial scaffold]

when are we getting dinosaurs?? zzzzzzzzz who cares about all this generator, stools, and lights bs. you're telling me the next 2 dinosaurs is a venomous rat and a penguin?

[cyan flame]

@faint folioYou're also only looking purely at apex vs small. Are you not forgetting that "large" and "small" is a bit relative? We got maia, para, and so on, others that can also fit with the whole running things over. And still big enough to run a dilo or omni over.

[burnt bone]

I care about it. Humans are 10x more interesting than any single playable. ||Not to mention the human team is different from the Dino team.||

[cyan flame]

Smalls are not neccesarily popular for their fighting capabilities, and really, nor should they. We need a whole lot of other things to make them fun, such as being much better at survival in general.

[jovial scaffold]

@burnt bone cool but you're most likely the exception. it's a dinosaur game after all lol

[cyan flame]

One that always was going to get humans. And tribals.

[burnt bone]

It originally wasn’t. The devs have explained many times that this game was originally human focused with a few carnivores. But they listened to the community and expanded upon the dinosaurs.

[cyan flame]

And there's a lot of people waiting for those, and while I don't care much for the gen2/"mercs" I do like the idea of the gen1/"tribal"

[jovial scaffold]

that's great and all but why does it take 2 decades to get a single dino?

[cyan flame]

Because they want to get all mechanics done first.

[burnt bone]

Because a small indie company is making a massive game and working on the core mechanics to said game, rather than adding Dinos with only stat differences(like legacy)

Why add 20 carnivores and balance them, then add a complete overhaul to diet system and have to rebalance them all over again?

[jovial scaffold]

no one is asking for 20 carnivores. you're telling me this entire year we don't even get one dinosaur?

[limber hull]

I think they have 7 animals waiting for U6 to be released atm

According to Filipe, that is

[burnt bone]

Yes.

Here’s a better example then:
Imagine titanfall only had guns added and balanced them, then added wall running and had to rebalance them all over again. Then added titans and rebalance them yet again? Instead they can add wall running and titans, then finish adding all the guns.

Same thing here, it’s why hypsi and dryo are so unpopular, they lack core mechanics that would make them interesting and viable. So they end up being boring. Now imagine that for every Dino.

Troo without Night vision, cera without gore, etc.

[jovial scaffold]

even so it's still taking centuries to get these mechanics implemented

[burnt bone]

That’s what happens when a small team has high ambitions. It takes time.

[jovial scaffold]

guess we'll just casually wait 5 years

[cyan flame]

What other option do we have? :p

[burnt bone]

What would you rather them do? Rush out half finished, extremely buggy, and unbalanced mechanics? I’d rather wait 5 years than get hot garbage in 1.

[jovial scaffold]

i'd rather just quit tbh. it may not be their fault but the reality is i'm not waiting that long.. so rip

[burnt bone]

Okay then, I’d rather wait and get it, than never get it at all.

[limber hull]

I mean, the update is literally just around the corner, so now would be a silly time to quit

[jovial scaffold]

we're getting a rat with venom

[limber hull]

They intend to release the update this year and are entering the final testing phase.

[burnt bone]

Yes, and it will be hilarious.

[jovial scaffold]

gore won't be enough for me to want to stay

[limber hull]

U6 has so many other features tho

Replies to the wrong message lol

Gore, migrations, diet paths, insects, humans, new map

[burnt bone]

Gore, diet reworks, new plants, potentially new map (if not, then soon afterwards), plus other stuff I’m forgetting atm.

How did I forget humans lmao

Oh and pterodactyls ai and nest raids

[jovial scaffold]

that's great but until we get new significant playables i'm not interested tbh. that's just me tho

[burnt bone]

I don’t think troo is insignificant personally, but have fun in the meantime then.

[limber hull]

Troodon is sweet as

[limber hull]

@carmine kettle it’s confirmed mercs will spawn with basically nothing but a flashlight

They aren’t supposed to start off feeling prepared to defend themselves, the idea is to play into their defenceless feel

[carmine kettle]

thats pretty sad

[limber hull]

Nah it’s awesome imho

[carmine kettle]

nah not really

they need like a bowie

[limber hull]

Humans are supposed to play heavily into stealth, using structures as self-defence and only fighting as a last resort, not running around already armed

[carmine kettle]

or like a shitty knife

[rare fractal]

The entire point of humans is to be relatively helpless even with weapons

They’re the horror sim of the game

[carmine kettle]

I know

[rare fractal]

They’ll still be viable, that’s what compounds are for

[proud coral]

I wanna earn ways to defend myself better

I wanna find just a simple ordinary machete and be like "OOOH"

[rare fractal]

No, human spawn with boomstick, dino go kabloowy

[timid flower]

YES

kabloowy dinosaurs

[rare fractal]

Well for one, the idea that smalls need competent combative matchups with apexes is an incredibly weak position considering smalls have basically zero reason to be both contending with or encountering apexes, even up to animals in dilos range of size. Another reason is because trample damage would be REALLY difficult to take if you’re a small, your agility and speed should more than compensate for that, and animals like Utah with pounce mechanics don’t even need to worry about trample damage in combat anyway. So it’s niche if being one of the few smalls capable of punching up would remain. Stego is also the WORST example next to Anky for establishing the effectiveness of smalls vs apexes since it’s outfitted with the second best weaponry in the game to deal with them. Plus as smalls, an apex should be the pinnacle of targets that in the vast majority of cases simply isn’t practical, stego is a good example, you need to catch it in the open, stack bleed, then maintain that bleed till it dies. Doesn’t really take very long if you coordinate that properly even if it eventually reaches a usable obstacles, plus most animals will struggle with this strategy because of a lack of flank defenses that stego has in droves.

Not to mention that smalls should be the worst candidates for contending with apexes, I don’t really think enabling that dynamic with trample is a bad thing, especially since it’s ver considerably difficult as a small to get hit by.

Regarding the ratio of players playing smaller Dino’s….smaller Dino’s need more to do outside of fighting the largest animals available…that goes for most things, apexes are generally to be avoided

[limber hull]

@candid quest just because you dislike humans doesn't mean others do too, its not really fair to speak for everyone

[candid quest]

i don't care :3

[limber hull]

cool, humans are being added anyways, so

[candid quest]

ok

[spring holly]

Telling the devs what they should prioritize is pointless. It's their game. They know what they want and what should be focused on.

[proven river]

@candid quest Buddy, the addition of humans was decided before herbivores, the isle was originally meant to be a battle royal game ( or so I have heard ) between dinosaurs and humans and humans have been planned for 7 years, it's essentially set in stone that they will be added and nothing you say will change that but you can join servers with the option for humans off. The only reason we have a dinosaur survival game and not a battle royale is because the devs listened to feedback

[urban flax]

Playable humans were planned even before any playable dino...

[rare fractal]

It's sorta redundant to bring any of that up, those OG plans are entirely irrelevant with where the game is now

Humans are just a unique gameplay opportunity that if executed well will add a lot to the game without ruining anything

That's it, no need to appeal to deprecated history

[flint flare]

Look idc about humans as long as they don't one shot me with some weapons I'm cool

[tidal prawn]

I guess thats what many people are scared off being robbed of their growth or progress by humans that spawn in and essentially have to grab a weapon and go killing but Idk how difficult that will be

[uneven mist]

I mean…deino already is able to do that

1 shoting playables that is

[tidal prawn]

Well yes but its very situational and rivers water sources only whereas a human can drive to you or walk or whatever

Am not saying they will just kill everything but we'll see

[uneven mist]

I don’t see humans would just mindlessly kill anything, they have limited ammo, if they shoot then the entire island knows their position and so on, humans will most likely be dangerous to things it’s near and smalls - pseudo mids I’d imagine and if they do decide to add snipers and long range weapons then they also said they wanted a full on ballistic system so if you for example hit a dryo perfectly even with the ballistic system then you deserve that kill. Also since ammo would be scarce they most likely won’t just mindlessly kill and use their weapons for selfie device but as you said we’ll see

[flint flare]

Y e s

[spring holly]

exactly and the devs said humans will be "hard mode" so i cant see them being able to kill everything in a carnage

when im gonna play im just gonna constantly move, if you're idle, you're making yourself an easy target for guns

easy fix

[faint folio]

@analog gull what 7 playables are ready to be added? Troodon is nearly there, which makes sense because it's next to be added with update night terrors, but from what I hear it's still being polished. Beipi is next most done, but still needs a bit of work past I heard. Humans according to dev blog are still being modified, having tools added, etc, which is a core part of their gameplay. Haven't heard much about cerato and galli, other than that gore is important for cera, and both are in active development. But even then altogether that's only 5 playables...

[uneven mist]

He or she was talking about this and besides troodon, beipi, Gali and cera there has been mentions of Herrera, dibble and maybe bary/austro. That’s what I think the 7 playables are that was mentioned and they aren’t quite done because of some issues I’d imagine

[analog gull]

ye

[faint folio]

Ah okay, thanks! It's really easy to miss comments in the main channels

[limber hull]

@mellow acorn they told us why they weren't adding the playables, they rely on systems like gore before they can be added

gore isnt in, so neither are they

[burnt bone]

stuff like troodon relying on NV, cera relying on gore rotting, herrera needs climbing, etc.

[mellow acorn]

So 7 playables will come out with gore?

That’s what that means to me at least

And any logical person with a working brain

[limber hull]

not really, no

it means they have 7 playables in the works, not 7 completed playables waiting to be shipped out

[mellow acorn]

Oh so they lied

[limber hull]

we already know beipi, cera, troodon, galli, herrera and so on are in production

[burnt bone]

I'm not understanding where the sentiment that they have 7 fully functioning creatures ready is coming from. Like, they may be in the base able to walk around and bite, but they don't have their mechanics or are balanced

[limber hull]

where... exactly did that happen?

[mellow acorn]

When someone said it would be ages before we get all playables and they said we have 7 new ones? If they’re not ready then they’re the same as the other 50 or whatever and it’s literally pointless to mention them in response and to contradict us not getting playables for ages because if they aren’t ready then the argument still stands that we won’t get them for ages

Considering we get one a year…

[limber hull]

they said they have 7 new ones because they want you to know they haven't forgotten about playables. The implication was "we are working on many new playables, don't worry", not "we have 7 playables completely done and ready to launch ASAP"

its been made clear repeatedly that playables will be launched faster after U6, as that's one of the last of the main BIG updates that massively impacts dinosaur gameplay

[burnt bone]

If they were fully done, then there must be some really good reasons that they aren't added or really talked about. Or why other animals don't have their mechanics, i.e, hypsi is supposed to get climb with herrera, if herrera climb is fully finished, then hypsi should have it. so why doesnt it? ||especially since we only have the heavy WIP herrera climb||

[mellow acorn]

All I’m saying is I wouldn’t trust a thing that comes out the devs mouths until the show and don’t tell because the do a lot of talking and don’t back their talk with action

[limber hull]

i like how even an affirmation that they haven't forgotten about playables and are still working on new roster additions can be taken as a way to paint them as villains lmao

they really cant ever win

[mellow acorn]

No ones painting villians haha just stating facts

[burnt bone]

you're stretching a statement made in a discord chat to say that the devs are purposefully withholding months of content for no reason, then saying we shouldn't trust the devs.

[limber hull]

You aren't though, you're literally taking words that were meant to be taken as "don't worry guys, we haven't forgotten about the roster, we're working on MANY new additions once these core systems are done" as "we've been withholding playables for no reason and have completed 7 that we will NEVER release hahahahaha"

[mellow acorn]

I’m assuming gore mechanics will not exclude all current playables

[limber hull]

I'm not quite sure what you mean here

[burnt bone]

Like, i can't think of a good reason (other than imbalance and heavy software issues, which would mean they aren't complete) for them to withhold all of these playable and only say ONCE that they are working, yet say many, many times before that they are in the works, but still far off.

[mellow acorn]

Anyway let this point stand, im not painting villians, this isn’t a life or death situation and no one needs to cry
My logic is that if the 7 aren’t ready, they won’t be for a while based on the current work rate related to adding playable, if the devs prove me wrong I’ll be happy. Im not doubting that they’re working on playables hahaha duh, im just saying getting 1 a yeah and complaining about it is justified and there’s no reason to believe that playable-release-speed will get any better.. YET

[jovial scaffold]

cant wait to get a venomous rat by the end of the year then wait another year just for 1 more dino 🙂

[grizzled vector]

What's interesting to me is that they flaunted the venomous dino last Halloween in that video and I even remember seeing one in game running around during the pachy and diet stress test

so like where is it

[burnt bone]

that is understandable, but why say that they are all ready and spread that quite obvious misinformation?

If you're worried about dino relesase speeds, its because most the programmers are working on core mechanics to the game, rather than dino mechanics. So once we get past like U6 and 7, the future updates have much less mechanics. thus, the programmers can focus more on dino mechanics.

[limber hull]

problem is it relies on systems like venom before they can actually add it

without that, it doesn't do what its supposed to do

[burnt bone]

waiting for the updated NV so it can be a fully functional animal, rather than end up in the garbage fire that is the unfinished dryo and hypsi.

[mellow acorn]

How is that a counter to it’s gonna take ages?

[burnt bone]

that too, venom is a whole new mechanic and needs to be balanced carefully.

[mellow acorn]

I don’t see why they can’t add things because of gore when it could be added to them later

Won’t the current roster have gore added?

[burnt bone]

After they are done with most the core mechanics, then they can work fully on dino mechanics and dinos will come out faster.

If you're upset a game is working on core mechanics while it is in early access, then idk what to say.

[burnt bone]

because its like adding pachy without bone break, for some of them they rely on the system heavily, like cera.

[mellow acorn]

Core mechanics? Name a mechanic that works as intended in this game

[limber hull]

Certain animals (like cera) RELY on gore systems to function as they should, many animals have been designed with gore prematurely in mind, so on

[mellow acorn]

Does gali depend on gore?

Won’t stego depend on gore?

Surely stego will have some of the most gore-a-licous attacks right?

[burnt bone]

bleed, bone break, drinking, eating, diets, flying, swimming, nesting, skins, I can keep going onto dino mechanics specifically

[mellow acorn]

Why is that in the game now?

[grizzled vector]

Inefficient wouldn't even begin to describe the dev team. One major update this year and it was the nausea inducing night vision lmao

[limber hull]

What

That's not even true lmao

[jovial scaffold]

dev team is slow af period

[icy lion]

I think you're misinterpreting what those comments meant, Punch discussed that briefly here #isle-discussion message
#isle-discussion message

[grizzled vector]

oh wait they did do nesting this year

[mellow acorn]

All buggy as hell hitboxes, frames, optimisation, I could find you clips of near all those breaking consistently

[mellow acorn]

I think you’re misinterpreting me actually sorry, let me explain: Someone put forth the argument that it would take ages to see all playables added; I agreed.

[burnt bone]

I never said hitboxes and lag isnt a mechanic, but the mechanics work do they not? I can break a carno's leg and it starts limping right? Optimization is an issue, I will admit, but they cant just optimize something, then have to undo the optimization to add another mechanic.

Plus, hitboxes are being changed constantly to try and improve them. Pachy's ram works much better than it did originally.

[mellow acorn]

I think not having 6fps is a core mechanic no? And better that originally is not functioning as intended might I add, let’s be specific here

[burnt bone]

then you said: "Are they ACTUALLY ready or was that just more cap?" and went on in the basis that all 7 are complete, when you were misinterpreting the statement

[mellow acorn]

Nothing works as intended for final release not even pounce which was like the first mechanic

Yeah an then I argued that if they’re not ready.. don’t say we have 7 new ones if we aren’t gonna see them in the next 3-5 working decades

Because then how are they new? If they’re just the same as all the others: release date TBD

ANYWAYYY hahahaha

[tepid gate]

Yes, each animal relies on gore in that its body has to leave "gore" behind it. The devs don't want to release other animals because they have to rework them after introducing those global mechanics that affect all. I sure as hell hope they will be sorted after this one and start adding them but goddamn does the track record not make me optimistic about it.

Here you can see what I mean when I say that gore affects all the playables, they all need to have their skeletal structure in place for it to work:

[sand lantern]

so playables will come faster after gore?

[spiral thunder]

I think that’s the idea. Back when they made that heavy pivot to focus on mechanics vs playables. Gore and venom are the only two major systems left I think and I’m sure it’s eating up time and man power. Soon that time and man power can go to playables.

I’d still argue with a smaller roster, Envrima is still more diverse than legacy by miles. Mechanics mean more than playables imo

[tepid gate]

well... no idea, there was no confirmation of that

I'm going to be a pessimist and based one the track record say - probably no.

[spiral thunder]

Well if they finish gore and venom and still don’t start releasing I will finally join the pessimist, until then I will just trust them with the game. I just came back after a few months break and haven’t even touched nesting so I have some fun to be had. I think it’s healthy for all of us to just step away when we feel it gets stale and come back when something new comes in.

[tepid gate]

I keep stepping away from the game, it doesn't make things better, quite the opposite

we will see but I think Dondi said that update 7 might be a big one too

so it could potentially get in the way of getting the playables in too but who knows

[spiral thunder]

What is 7?

[spiral thunder]

Oh elder and perks (totally forgot about the roadmap page). Yeah I can’t see that standing in the way honestly.

[cyan flame]

@south oar And now you have the issue of someone harassing someone else and not letting them log at all, just because they can. It's not a very viable solution, to a problem that doesn't really exist. There's no actual combatlogging since you, as you wrote, have to lie down and sleep, which tends to get you killed if you're actively being attacked by something. And your solution would really not fix your described issue anyway, since you can just, you know, protect something until it logs anyway, even if you add timers to it by just getting into a defensible position.

[south oar]

There is such thing as combat logging, your getting protected as you log, all I'm saying is this should be prevented smth your actively hunting shouldn't be able to log while being protected. And this is a common occurrence

[cyan flame]

No, there really isn't, because you can't just pop out at any time, which is what actual combat logging is. The entire point of having to lie down and sleep is to prevent you from doing just that, since you now need to be incredibly vunerable to log, which does not work in actual combat. And did you just say that something shouldn't be able to log because it's being hunted? I guess any jumping animal that can get out of reach is out of luck then? As is deino going into water? Because if you can't get to something and kill it, it's for all intents and purposes out of reach, no matter the reason. You are not owed a kill, there's such a thing as failed hunts. And no, it's not very common at all.

You also forgot to take into account how your suggestion could be abused by people, where itd'd cause far more problems than it would solve.

[south oar]

Your taking what I said and blowing it wayyy out of proportion mate

And combat logging is logging during a fight whether it be logging in a second or logging in 60

It's logging DURING combat

[cyan flame]

Not at all, it's just that I've seen this suggestion before, and it's as terrible as it's always been. It's not a good solution because you're adding more issues than you're actually solving.

[cyan flame]

But it's not during combat. You are not actively engaging the target, otherwise it wouldn't be able to log, it'd die before that. Unless you're something attempting to hunt something you really shouldn't, and in that case, it's not an issue.

[south oar]

We were trying to kill a 50 percent stego, bleed takes a bit. And it can log while bleeding and getting hurt, it was active combat.

And we had to be careful Abt it unless we wanted to die, but we were getting bites in every other couple second

[cyan flame]

@south oarYou know what would on the other hand, be a much more reasonable suggestion? Making it so if you have taken lethal bleed, and are attempting to log, you just die. Which means you actually need to inflict sufficient damage, bleed or otherwise, in the time it'd take for something to log to kill it.

This way you can't abuse it by having a solo something just tag something trying to log and prevent it, but if you have enough to inflict sufficient damage, or have already done so, such as in the case of bleed, you get your kill. Assuming the target doesn't end up dying out of reach, which is also a thing.

[south oar]

Thats a good idea, Im not looking to argue I'm just saying that things shouldn't be able to get away at least in how what had happened, but anything like this if it ever did happen wld take time

[cyan flame]

Also, if you got 3-4 omnis, and an adult stego attempts to lie down and log, you'll kill it with raw damage before that happens. Even if it tries to "shield" itself, unless omnis bite slower than every second or so, but I don't think they do.

And that's the only playable that could attempt it. Every other playable dies, or just, logs out of reach. Like a deino could just... go down to the bottom of the river, and log out.

And carno would die, as would anything else.

[south oar]

Yeah

[cyan flame]

But if something is protected, you need to take that into account. If they can successfully prevent you from inflicting enough damage, then that should count like using any other method honestly. You're prevented from getting to it and doing damage, for one reason or another.

[barren crater]

3 omni's would do like 260n per second, so yeah a stego would die in less than 30 seconds

[cyan flame]

@south oarMainly the issue I take with suggestions such as yours is the ability to just harass someone. Let's say I'm planning to log, and you happen to see me, because I'm a big slow stego. Now you, as a solo omni, could just run in when I lie down, tag me, prevent the log and add more time. Rinse and repeat, do you see the potential issue?

I would not be able to stop you, because well, I can't exactly run you down, and while I could try and bait you, you could just wait until I attempt sleep and go on, safe and sound. As long as you're not starving or dehydrating, I'm more or less at your mercy.

[cyan flame]

Fair, I was trying to be conservative with the estimates, just to make sure.

[south oar]

Mhm

[cyan flame]

If you can figure out a way for your idea to not be abusable like that, I'd be a lot more receptive to it. But I'd rather not add something that can allow for that kind of abuse, because while you could force a log, that's still an immense danger (standing there for 5 min, not knowing at all what might happen), all because some tiny thing decided it wanted to be a bother.

[south oar]

Yeh yeh I get it mate

[cyan flame]

@south oarAlso, just so we're clear, I did not intend for you to remove your feedback. It is as valid as anyone elses, be it good or bad. So I apologize if you feel "attacked", it's just, I've done this "song and dance" a few times before, so I'm maybe a little too invested in it. Still, I'm sorry if I was rude.

[south oar]

Nah ur fine ive changed my opinion, just don't wanna get pinged over and over again if others decide they wanna perk In discussion aswell since this is a huge server

[latent wadi]

all dinos including deino should have a drag mechanic for when they cant carry something in their mouth like carno

[urban flax]

This but with a hypsi instead
Doesn't even need to get close
Just spits in your face then grazes
Forever

[latent wadi]

make elite fish give more as an adult fish dont spawn nearly enough and dont give enough food

[lapis swallow]

So you want to give the easiest playable growthwise to have a even easier time to sustain itself

Also wrong channel

[spring holly]

These feedbacks man 😬

[faint folio]

well... climbing and burrowing too

perks might get in the way a bit with programming but tbh i think it would be less work than climbing, burrowing, gore, venom, etc

[limber hull]

@dire quiver they're already adding a new smaller map and its tropical

[lapis swallow]

Muahahahhahahahahahahhaa

[dire quiver]

They're already adding Cerato at some point, doesn't mean you can't give some feedback

[lapis swallow]

How does cera play into this?

[dire quiver]

Not even gonna explain it to you

[lapis swallow]

Why not?

Cause you cant, maybe?

[tepid gate]

I mean I think it's pretty clear from his feedback that he wants the map not to be tropical.

I actually agree with him there

I find the current setting of Evrima to be particularly bad for a survival horror

[uneven mist]

A horror element with a tropical setting can work it just needs to you know, be good which spero’s tropical isn’t

A temperate map is more easy to make scary than a tropical one but with the right tone, atmosphere and so on it could be as scary

[proud coral]

Tropical can be scary since dense jungles create that feeling of not knowing where to look. Not saying it's better than temperate nor the other way around, they can both be scary in their own ways 😛

Temperate woods for instance can create a similar feeling by disorienting your sense of direction.

[limber hull]

I don't see how. Dense forests prowling with unseen threats is fundamentally horrifying, especially if you know something MASSIVE is just out of view

[tepid gate]

Very simple - the whole goddamn island looks like a place where people would go on holiday - sunny beaches, blue ocean and greenery all around. All you need is a bar on the beach, a five star hotel and perhaps some place where you could rent a motorboat.

That's not exactly a place that gives me creepy vibes. It never has, I've never felt even a glimpse of unease in Evrima. Legacy with its temperate climate did that vastly better.

I wouldn't necessarily say that I was "scared" of legacy, although I've experienced a few jumpscares courtesy of the old night vision(you will be missed) but it gave me a feeling of uneasiness very often.

Evrima doesn't do any of that I genuinely can't picture it being scary with its looks.

We will see after the next update

humans are coming with it so I will probably play them just to take a stroll through the jungle to see how that plays out

but just the lighting, the colour palette and the look of Evrima are inherently not scary to me

[limber hull]

That doesn't make it any less horrifying, many movies have utilised that environment for its horror, it's not about the beauty of the island, it's how lost and small you feel in these massive dense jungles, and the sheer embodiment of nature in its most untamed form

[tepid gate]

Yea but movies can utilise the lighting and other things to make that work, Spiro has its lighting set up and it's not getting changed as per what the devs have stated

so the chances of it being scary are slim to none

I also do not care how small I feel, being small doesn't make me feel scared

Maybe Gateway will be better with regard to that who knows

Spiro is an anti-horror experience as far as I'm concerned

[burnt bone]

I think having it look nice is a good duality, like a foil. its why we have cute animals like minmi and hypsi. You wouldn't expect to see a cute dino on a nice tropical island get absolutely mauled and torn to shreds.

[tepid gate]

Admittedly it's better than it has been back in update 1 and 2

[limber hull]

I PERSONALLY think being trapped on an island where I KNOW there are several ton meat eating murder machines out there, but I can't see them is inherently horrifying

Although I have to agree on Spiro, since the forests are near unnavigatable and no one goes in there, so its just a lot of plains

[tepid gate]

that too but that doesn't matter for a horror experience to me

it's just irrelevant to the atmosphere

Spiro's atmosphere is just not very horrific

I generally think that any jungle setting makes it harder to make a horror experience but Spiro fails at it particularly

not that it's impossible to make a horror on a tropical island

but I think you're making life harder for yourself by choosing that setting by default

[burnt bone]

plus, having nice scenery allows you to calm down between the horror parts, making them seem even worse. Rather than just HORROR, Horror, horror, horror. You get calm... HORROR, calm... HORROR.

plus, its moreso the dinosaurs that are horror, rather than the type of forest personally

[tepid gate]

I'd first need to see a single horror part so that I have something to calm down from

scenery will likely stop me from being scared in the first place

[rare fractal]

I don't think this game can ever make me feel genuine horror so I'm entirely neutral to the subject, the game makes me too self aware of what I lose when I die to make me immersed enough to feel afraid aside from the materialistic sense

[tepid gate]

no offense but whatever intricate horror story you write - it will be hard to pull it off on the set of Teletubbies

[limber hull]

I personally just find the old temperate environment... Bland. Like, really bland. Navigating around it as a human would feel like a larger, glorified Slenderman forest, and there's nothing remarkable or interesting about the daytime other than "it isn't night time"

[tepid gate]

Bland! That's the right word

That's precisely how I feel about Spiro

[rare fractal]

Same

[limber hull]

didnt someone literally make a teletubby horror game lol

[burnt bone]

thats kinda just spiro though, not the fact that its tropical

[tepid gate]

I've never seen it

[tepid gate]

the latter has a lot to do with the former

[limber hull]

I think Spiro is just a bad map, I still recall the human experience extremely fondly, even if it was on Spiro

[tepid gate]

We will see how gateway ends up looking but big doubt on it being scary since it has the same setting

[limber hull]

I don't see how a temperate setting would change that

[tepid gate]

idk legacy was working much better with regard to that

even knowing there was nothing to be scared off

[limber hull]

Besides making a far less diverse, fitting, colourful or visually interesting map

[tepid gate]

the atmosphere was still a thousand times better

[tepid gate]

it being less colourful was great

Spiro is way too colourful

[uneven mist]

A tropical environment can still be scary, you just need the food about of atmosphere, setting and so on to pull it off but spiro lacks that

[limber hull]

I reckon legacy was seen as scarier because they had giant-ass rexes and stuff that killed you instantly without being restricted to the water

[tepid gate]

"colourful" and "horror" don't go together

and no, rexes and whatever else didn't help with being scared of things, it was just the atmosphere that was vastly better there

[limber hull]

I personally prefer the beauty of the island to go with the horror of the island, not be left with a drab, bland, uninteresting looking island that exists fully to play into some artificial scare-factor

[tepid gate]

admittedly it could also be down to ambient sounds to some extent

[uneven mist]

Both a temperate map and a tropical one can be scary it’s just that it’s easier to make a temperate map look and feel look horrifying than a tropical one but it can still be done

[tepid gate]

I'd much rather leave beauty to some genres where it's more appropriate, I don't care to see that stuff in a horror game

[tepid gate]

of course it can be done but it's harder

[uneven mist]

Like here for example, you could pull it off with the right atmosphere, fog, lighting and so on but spiro lacks that atmospheric aspect so it’s feels nothing

[rare fractal]

I kinda just want the map to be nice to look at and service gameplay

horror is so far down the list of priorities to me

[uneven mist]

I’d love more maps with different biomes. One map with a temperate setting, one with a tropical one (gateway and spiro) one with desert like one ect ect

[limber hull]

Well Gateway at least got the former, but we'll see if Jace can work his magic to get the latter too

[rare fractal]

The latter being easily the most important element, so fingers crossed

[rare fractal]

I just think a single map should have a plethora of biomes despite the contrivance

[uneven mist]

But MuH ImMerSioN

[rare fractal]

Fix teleportahs then we'll talk

[limber hull]

TBF, this is a goddamn company that can bring dinos from the dead, they can mess with climate

[uneven mist]

Not in my house

[uneven mist]

Deal, I’ll remove the magnets under utahs feet

[rare fractal]

Impossible, utah isn't in game yet....unless you're referring to....
.
.
.
||THE OMNIRAPTOR||

[uneven mist]

I’m from the future

[rare fractal]

[proud coral]

[urban flax]

Someone never heard of Green Hell

And I'm sorry, but saying horror genre can't be colorful is really an uneducated opinion, there are plenty of horror games and movies that include, and even play with, an overabundance of colors. The question is how and when to use them. If you do it right, you can even do a horror setting in broad daylight, in the middle of an amusement park. What makes something horrific has nothing to do with the colors or the environment, it's how you make use of it

[uneven mist]

Green hell such a good survival game

[limber hull]

true as, i had that game on my mind but forgot which one it was

and yea, clowns are one of the most colourful things ever and people are PETRIFIED of them

colour and horror are not polar opposites

[spring holly]

Mmm colors aren't what's terrifying in clowns but the fact that they're uncanny. They look human but not quite.

[limber hull]

True as that may be, the implication was something CANNOT be both colourful and scary

Which would mean by default, clowns shouldn't be scary

[spring holly]

True that.

[urban flax]

Also Poppy's Playtime is a very good example of a good horror game with a lot of colour (and it takes place in an amusement park of some sorts)

[spring holly]

The dinos would look absolutely terrifying if they we're uncanny. Normal but not quite. That's why I think the mutant way is a better idea than accurate looking dinos for this game.

[urban flax]

Real creatures can be uncanny and scary too
You just gotta make good use of what makes them scary

Troodon has the potential to be very scary for humans, because no matter where you are, there could be a troodon nearby. You can't see it, but it can see you.

[limber hull]

I LOVE Troodon's use of colour in addition, btw

[urban flax]

The unknown is scary. That's why Dead by Daylight, although it's got all of the horror elements, isn't really a horror game. Because you know what the killer is capable of. You know where he is, and you know that he's being controlled by another stupid human just trying to have fun.

[limber hull]

Oh yea, DbD is an awful horror game lol

[urban flax]

Although some killers, mainly the ones that can hide themselves or teleport, can be very scary

[limber hull]

With The Isle, you never know WHAT is out there. Sure, you can know all 55 dinos and what they do, but you can never know when they'll be on you, it's all reactionary

[limber hull]

My fave killer (and only killer I actually like in that entire game) is Dredge

[urban flax]

Well it's not really a horror game
It looks like one, but it's more akin to a deathmatch of some sorts

[urban flax]

My main :P
With demogorgon and Sadako

[limber hull]

I see you have a specific niche you like lol

[urban flax]

Scarejump niche

[limber hull]

Yep, lol

But yea, I think The Isle is terrifying because you never know what you'll stumble across next

A tropical environment only adds to that, imho

They're much more suited to the tropics, the cutoffs on line of sight, dense foliage, deep rivers and high trees allow them to traverse in ways you cant, and attack from areas before you know they're there

In a temperate climate, I'd have a much easier time spotting a rex before it was on my ass

[urban flax]

Yeah thick vegetation helps to make something scary, because it blocks vision
That's why I like the jungles of spiro (apart from the cliff bushes)

[limber hull]

Gateway looks genuinely awesome to me

Making these metallic, monochromatic, cold boxes of steel your only salvation, and the colourful, lush and beautiful outside inherently dangerous is an incredibly interesting juxtaposition

[urban flax]

I'm prepared to be disappointed with gateway

[limber hull]

I don't know why people are so pessimistic about it

[urban flax]

Because of pragmatism
I always expect the worst, so if things end up being good anyway, I can truly appreciate its qualities

[limber hull]

It's being designed by an actual goddamn map designer

Which thank God for that

[urban flax]

Pragmatism

I'm also prepared to see people complain about everything regarding gateway for two weeks straight after its release

[lapis swallow]

@barren zephyr elaborate

[barren zephyr]

horrid mess thats going no where and sucking valuable players from evrima

[lapis swallow]

You know that many players cant run evrima and have to play legacy

[barren zephyr]

ok?

[lapis swallow]

And those players wont play evrima cause they cant

And others just like legacy more and they paid for it

So why should they take it away when the performance of evrima cant support many legacy players?

[latent wadi]

legacy still better than evirma in my opinion

[rare fractal]

That's a bizarre take

[barren crater]

lol

[uneven mist]

That’s a take out of time

[limber hull]

@latent wadi body dragging is literally a thing

you described an existing mechanic

[jagged jewel]

@latent wadi that literally already exists lmao

[ionic pike]

@latent wadi hold G💀

[sage yew]

I'd like to talk about the aspect of navigation. Currently there is a compass system in use, but some features that should be usable are seem to be missing. Like taking up the scent of living creatures.

The idea is, to get rid of the compass. Yes I know, I like to find my favourite places like anyone else, but even tho some animals can sense the magnetic field (like some bird too), it feels too close to what humans would use and not animals.

Therefore, get rid of the compass and improve the scent system, so you don't follow the magnetic fields, but get dragged to places where stuff is actually happening and in exchange for icons a color overlay with accuracy depending on different factors: distance, size, movement, bleed etc.

**1. the longer you stand still, the more smell will drag the attention to you

• that way, hiding in bushes just to wait to grow up, becomes less attractive and staying in movement is more beneficial

2. scent detection increases with hunger

• carnivores that just have eaten, are not able to hunt that easily

3. Scent can be masked, by strong smelling plants, or even blood and decaying corpses if it's between you and the one hunting (or vice versa)

4. Scent becomes more diffuse and more inaccurate the further any given target is away

5. the bigger you are, the more scent will be emitted

6. if wind mechanics will be implemented: smell drags along the wind**

I would like to refine the set of rules before I post it into balancing

here a concept art for a visual representation of how scent mechanics could look like

• grass field (green), emit a weak smell that can mask small animals
  -flowers (yellow/orange) emit a stronger smell that can mask midsize animals
  -blood (red) has a strong smell that can be detected on a greater distance
• living creatures (brown) have a scent depending on size, movement

A lot more to conceptualise, before I want to post it into #general-feedback. I'd be thankful for any help or suggestions.

[uneven mist]

Tbh, I love that

[uneven mist]

Some animals like for example rex, Alberto or mono would have the much better sence than any other carnivores especially tracking them and scavengers like cera being able to smell corpses from far away and giga smelling bleed from a further distance

Some herbivores could also have some better sense like smelling blood if they want to flee, smelling some plants and so on

[uneven mist]

Also on the second one do you mean when an dino is full it isn’t able to smell as good as it would when it’s hungry?

[sage yew]

exactly. Basically, if you're a good hunter and therefore full, the scent detection decreases to compensate for a aggressive play style

somewhat like this:
Hunger: 0% = 50% Scent detection
Hunger: 50% = 100% Scent detection
Hunger 100% = 200% Scent detection

to allow players to find prey and food easier when in despaired need and to "calm down" when you're satisfied

The Idea is, that after eating your face is literally covered in blood and what was once inside your prey, is now on your face and sensitivity decreases.

Also, when you're covered in blood and therefore more pronounced by scent-visibility, you become from hunter to pray easier.

Thus, a more diverse play stile should be achieved

[uneven mist]

I really like that

[latent wadi]

not for deino

[jagged jewel]

It can grab bodies whole up to half its size

[latent wadi]

not drag tho

[lapis swallow]

Its literally the same

[latent wadi]

not really

theres a difference between piocking up and item and dragging

[lapis swallow]

But wont matter for deino

It really cant kill stuff above half its weight

[latent wadi]

its annoying to not be abkle to pickup a stego or deino thats adult

so it would be helpful to have a drag mechanic

especially for babies to drag fish

[lapis swallow]

Its not needed

[latent wadi]

if you were to play youd see how annoying it is

i come across alot of stego bodies its not uncommon

especially full grown deino bodies

[lapis swallow]

They could just make it that fish can be picked up by deino juvies

[jagged jewel]

I do play, and it isn’t really needed

Like if you find a stego body that is unguarded you’re more often than not able to just claim the body for yourself

Not like anything can stop you

[tepid gate]

I kind of agree that it would be cool to have a dragging mechanic, the one we have right now is a "carrying" mechanic

Admittedly - pretty sure that would be buggy like hell

might not be worth it in the long run

[jovial scaffold]

is the stress test happening soon?

[icy lion]

Please only use this channel to discuss posts shared in #general-feedback

[spiral thunder]

So with the mixpacking suggestion. I think, once they get all the systems rolling that mixpacking will be naturally punishable and may not be as big of an issue as it is now. Servers may not even have to rule against it (besides immersive reasons) since the mixpackers will be weaker targets and easy prey.

[feral solstice]

All group members being able to smell where the nest is, is a very unique idea

Eventually I would like for group info to be extensive

What gender is everyone in the group?

Where’s the nest location?

All that stuff

[proven river]

Someone made a test to see how it would work if group members could see each other's character panels, lemme find it

Oh dear, wrong channel

https://youtu.be/5NaqQmFOvag

[ionic pike]

@neat flame Deinosuchus* and Deino* lol

[cyan flame]

@safe flowerDeino is only 2T heavier than stego, far from twice it's size.

[feral solstice]

That would be a great addition, but it could make cannibalism way easier than it needs to be

So I think if it were strictly for your hatchlings, it could be good

I’m a firm believer that nesting was kinda undercooked in update 5.
I think it should’ve been more extensive and in-depth, and a part of your gameplay.

For example:

Nesting could, perhaps, be used as a way to engage the elder system.
Rather than locking elders behind a diet path and perk path, implement a checklist that your creature prefers to do. “Nesting and successfully raising offspring to X growth.” Could be one of them.

And then nesting itself needs to provide more info, and be far less tedious.

The first building block changes I’d make is as follows:

• Whenever a hatchling is born, their stomach is immediately full, as well as their nutrients (corresponding to the nutrients the mother had before laying the eggs. If you lay eggs while having two nutrients, that’s what the hatchling will spawn with).

• Nesting icon can be seen by all members of the group, including hatchlings. However, nests that aren’t YOURS will be less opaque the farther you are.

• You, the mother or father of the hatchlings, can check the stats of them. Hunger, thirst, health, and even growth, until a certain point that it gets checked off on your bucket list for elder.

I also wouldn’t mind a family tree

[icy lion]

Please use this channel to discuss posts shared in #general-feedback

[hasty meadow]

#general-feedback message

This could be very easily abused IMO.

[fierce lintel]

#general-feedback message
A fellow X zaguer enjoyer I see

[icy lion]

@clever wyvern Weather is update 8, and droughts/floods are likely part of it

[clever wyvern]

Awesomeeeeee

[heady quarry]

<@&933486433342222376> @barren zephyr sent this message in all feedback and screenshot channels

[lapis swallow]

<@&933486433342222376> you should look into this

[harsh breach]

I was playing as stego yesterday and I was thinking it would be really cool if a Petra could land on the plates.

[icy lion]

@ivory lion Strains will come back but they won't be RNG

Based on some old trello cards, you'll have to work super hard to earn them

[ivory lion]

Oh, alright.

Thanks for the info.

[urban flax]

Also it's hyper not hypo

[lucid mauve]

whats diffrent between hyper and strains ?

[icy lion]

A hyper is a type of strain

[lucid mauve]

ahh, ok so one is stronger then the other ?

[faint folio]

@obtuse fractal I agree. Path of Titans is pretty good about regular updates, for example, and honestly it's really enjoyable seeing that they're working on things, even if it's just minor tweaks. They just yesterday released a bug fix/QoL patch and honestly I was really enjoying the little tweaks that just fixed minor issues that were annoying but not game breaking (like needing to stand still to interact with quest items)

I've noticed that a lot of games fall into the trap of thinking that big updates with new content is the only update players want, and they will get annoyed with smaller patches, but honestly I don't know that it is true

[obtuse fractal]

the main reason why i wish so hard for more frequent updates is because most updates could, and honestly should, just be bug fixes? small fixes here and there, not even needing to add new content. and with smaller patches it'd be easier to find out what update makes something break. when so much stuff is added at once and something breaks i imagine it'd be harder to pin it down because they only ever wait for gigantic updates: hence the reason i'm not sure they even know why optimization is so bad right now

[lucid mauve]

pot is nice and all, but that balance , so bad lol

[faint folio]

The other thing is there's a game called Ranch Simulator that I play that only updates 2-3 times a year (they only have 2 devs), but the thing that makes it great is they pick 1-2 manageable goals in that timeframe to do, then release on time pretty much every time, which is such a nice thing

[obtuse fractal]

they used to do frequent bug fixes when the game was earlier in development. like a fix every week or so just for minor stuff. i miss that so much and it made the effort for the game feel more alive and like they actually cared

[faint folio]

Not stronger, but different. All hypers are strains, but not all strains are hypers. Just different sets of mutations= different strengths/weaknesses/playstyles

[lucid mauve]

ahh ok! Sounds good if people can choose what they like best etc

[faint folio]

As with all games, there are things they do well and things they need to improve on. PoT does need to work on balance, but it doesn't take away from the fact that they are constantly tweaking the balance trying to get it right... Unlike the isle which hasn't updated at all in months

I can even point out things I like about Day of Dragons, even though it does have a lot of pretty major issues that need work

[lucid mauve]

Yea, you cant complain about updates they have etc. And all the dino they added, but i cant stand that balance. Dont think ever i saw a fair fight or had a fair fight. It was either destroy or getting destroyed. You can do like 10 mistakes in a fight and just walk away if your in a group.

[faint folio]

To be fair, that's usually true when you have a group. Look at the isle and day of dragons for example-- larger groups tend to win unless there's a huge tier gap

[lucid mauve]

yea true, ofcourse numbers matter. But the isle you could go up against a smaller tier even if they are more. One mistake can end you. Pot you can just trade bites cus you need so many hits to kill something.

Still remember i facedtanked a eotrike as allo in pot, and even after 3 hits i could walk away lol

[faint folio]

Yeah... Honestly I think this is intentional though-- it's aiming for MMO style fighting where usually one hit doesn't kill.

Though even in your example, of a mid tier fighting an apex, a carno can get clipped by a stego and walk away. Just on Sunday my carno got 2 tail swings (either both tail or more likely one body one tail) and walked away and healed

Granted I was under 5% health and 1/2 bleed, but I survived. The stego surprised me which is the only reason he got that many hits

[barren zephyr]

Why is it that yesterday i could play carno fine, but now my fps drops to 0 every 10 yards that i run

[ionic pike]

there are a lot of factors that contribute to horrible fps. today may just be an extra bad day for a multitude of reasons.

[urban flax]

There are three strains in the lore. Neurotenics, which are smart but weak and with psychic powers, tissoplastics, which are (probably) fast and sneaky, and hyperendocrins, which are big and strong.

[proven river]

It's like how a gallimimus is a dinosaur, a hyperendocrine is a strain which is a superpowered evolution of a dinosaur, there are two others but I don't know if they are confirmed, neurotecnic and tissoplastic, neuros are super smart with emps and mind control or smth, hypers are just massive, stronger, faster better and tissos are stealth

[faint folio]

I wonder if tissoplastics can shape shift a bit (plastic meaning to mold or deform). Maybe by looking like a "normal" dinosaur?

[urban flax]

Nobody knows

[small anchor]

@obtuse fractal Nothing to do with your addition but point of mine was this

[obtuse fractal]

actually, that absolutely ties in with my point! the concept art needs to be more accurate to what is added. that bottom sketch is a prime example: it shows deino's head. not its entire back, like what we ended up getting. its too bulky in its gameplay when it gets bigger; like its not allowed to have stealth on the surface of water because its really loud or easy to spot. but crocs are KNOWN for being able to slide up on prey even above the water

the jumping thing for catching pteras has been talked about. not sure when it'll get added. that's like waiting for dryo to get its burrowing

[burnt bone]

the vertical lunge is still confirmed, its just coming later on. Also, that teno head crush thing could just be considered the lunge, since its already a 1-shot. The last one could just be a representation of someone under the water using the 3rd person cam above the water to see without revealing, since humans aren't animals and can easily see a croc head. Plus, its concept art, moreso giving a feel or drawing out how mechanics could work.

keyword is could. Balance changes can cause a lot of differences from the concept

[obtuse fractal]

the lunge got added, the vertical lunge didn't get implemented, and deino is about as subtle as a semi truck when floating on the surface

[small anchor]

[obtuse fractal]

i think the moral of it all is to be more accurate to the passion shown in concept art

[small anchor]

yes thats it

[rare fractal]

Vertical lunge is also useless for deino anyway

[limber hull]

it could have its uses (and it looks cool)