general-feedback-discussion

[faint folio]

Fair enough lol. I can get behind suspending disbelief for rule of cool

[midnight verge]

unique gameplay and cool factor > realism

[dreamy wharf]

https://tenor.com/view/true-gif-21006811

[pallid root]

zann I know you don’t like the idea of quetz being an Ariel deino basically but pls I wanna drop people from 1000 feet up

What if the grab made you incredibly vulnerable and slows your takeoff

[dreamy wharf]

I'm all for it being a finisher.

[pallid root]

Ok but how do you implement that

[dreamy wharf]

Like you "grab" a "live" galli from a herd or whatever and drop it but the dude's already on the respawn screen as soon as you "grab" him.

[pallid root]

like as a cut scene type of thing or like the being eaten alive thing the devs talk ab

Ah

[dreamy wharf]

So like if the damage you deal from the grab exceeds that of the victim's remaining health, it'll actually kill the player, but use animations that pretend it's alive.

[faint folio]

That would be better

[pallid root]

would be interesting if you had to thrash whatever you grabbed to kill it like in depth

[midnight verge]

im all for that
eating stuff alive helps on the horror element for any who would see it

[dreamy wharf]

That would be REALLY cool ye.

[pallid root]

Could honestly work a lot like depths system

[faint folio]

I just KNOW players are gonna abuse it to troll if they are able to

[dreamy wharf]

Yeah, like, I'm stupid scared of bears because I've seen what they can do to people.

[faint folio]

^

[dreamy wharf]

Having an animal flay, gut, and just eat you alive is really horrifying if done right.

[pallid root]

the winged bear

[dreamy wharf]

https://media.giphy.com/media/uHzyfwDgu8bPIuezd3/giphy.gif

[pallid root]

There’s also the gore related attacks

[faint folio]

Lions are considered noble, but have you seen them hunt a zebra? (Or wolves). They start eating while the zebra is still moving. Pretty nasty way to go

[dreamy wharf]

Yeah, it's awful.

And then you think about them flaying people alive because apparently God decided to give them a knife rug for a tongue.

https://tenor.com/view/seinfeld-jerry-seinfeld-shudder-gif-3979544

[faint folio]

Yup

But yeah, a grab/carry wouldn't be terrible as a finisher, but I really dislike the idea of it being a stand alone ability where you can actually kill players (or threaten to kill players) by dropping them... Especially because struggling free is not possible, because... Well, you know

At least if a deino runs out of stam, all the playables have a swim and can try to get to shore/safety if they are dropped

[dreamy wharf]

Ye

[faint folio]

Hey... @dreamy wharf

What about allowing replacing the aerial peck with picking up of players, but only other fliers (via a swoop/stoop mechanic like bird-eating hawks have)?

[dreamy wharf]

That would be really cool.

[faint folio]

Then add a struggle against it and voila

[dreamy wharf]

Like completely removing the peck and having it just be the grab finisher move?

So for something as small as a pteranadon, they can just genuinely grab them out of the air? They'd be a oneshot anyways.

[faint folio]

Most birds can only fly with about 1/3 of their body weight anyways

[faint folio]

Basically, yeah

[dreamy wharf]

Thanks man.

[dreamy wharf]

I'm gonna see if I have enough characters left so the limit doesn't cast me into the lake of fire hold on.

[faint folio]

Especially paired with the fact that you suggested quetz be quite a bit less agile than ptera in the air... Should give an alert PT enough opportunity to avoid trouble if they pay attention

Gives them an attack for the air, but makes them need to land and compete more fairly with larger things they can't just one-shot regardless

Really deino should have something similar, especially given it is decently tanky, but I digress

[dreamy wharf]

I've changed it alil bit.

I didn't even think about changing it into a very baby aerial grab.

[robust anchor]

Wtf is that robo quetz it was so random when I saw it. What use does it have

[faint folio]

I like it, thanks. One of the frustrations with deino is not only that it erases hours of progress in seconds (this happens with most fights anyways) but that it doesn't matter what your health is, or how well you play. There's nothing you can do to prevent it, other than just not drinking near crocs

[dreamy wharf]

o7

[faint folio]

This alleviates that while still allowing a carry/grab and one heck of a cool/scary animation

If you get snatched by a quetz, then you were gonna die from damage anyways

[dreamy wharf]

Exactly.

[austere tulip]

is there an auto walk key in this game?

[uneven mist]

No

[uneven mist]

@solid wedge about the NV

[solid wedge]

dam

[hollow vault]

I remember seeing somewhere that there was a bird that made nests outta bones

Idk if it’s true tho

[trim mauve]

Filipe being a sigma male once again

[low tendon]

Some bird nests will have bones within and/or near them, but often it's more due to being the remains of prey, not necessarily building material.

[cyan flame]

@teal parrot Maybe people just don't agree with it. Or more likely, they don't think it's neccesary for one reason or another. Not to mention that in this case, nutris as a game mechanic are not there as a food reserve but as a way to grant buffs.

[teal parrot]

Buffs based on protein, carbohydrates, etc. you know, there was a guy named Georg Simmel, great and seminal philosopher, who suggested that certain environments that humans are subjected to, may make them get more disconnected from reality. This certainly seems to be the case today, as it appears most gamers have no problem with game design that makes no realistic or intuitive sense. Seems there aren’t many people left among gamers, who find it unacceptable to have a character starve and die, while they still have carbohydrates and protein in reserve.

You just can’t explain it away by saying, “it’s a buff”.

[cyan flame]

To be fair, there's a good few things in this game that does not make much realistic sense, from mechanics to critters. Besides, you know how the "biteforce" debate looked like? People not understanding it's just an ingame stat, not reflective of actual real life biteforce, and so on. In this case, the nutrients do serve as a way to gain buffs, not a way to keep alive. Realistic or not, this is how the game decided to do diets, and that's probably why people disagree with your statement. And I mean, we accept things like strains, JP designs and abilities of animals, and all kinds of things, so there is that.

[limber hull]

and hes muted

[lapis swallow]

For what?

[limber hull]

idk

[sage briar]

nerf pachy

[urban flax]

why ?

[sage briar]

it's op

[urban flax]

How so ?

[uneven mist]

I would say to buff pachy

[urban flax]

But I want an answer
I want an explanation
I want to know what makes Pachy OP because I struggle surviving as one and I want to know their secret power

[last lily]

The answer is: Pachy’s secret ingredient s salad sauce, well known to Pachycephalosaurids but kept secret from others.

[lapis swallow]

Yes

[zealous stone]

Is it really necessary to give the guy the salt reaction?

I get it can be funny, but the guy's new.

@barren zephyr I get your idea, however a big part of the game is learning how to navigate the map by yourself. It can be overwhelming at first, because the map is huge, but you really just need to know where hotspots are, and where your diet plants are in the case of herbivores. I'd recommend using rivers as a navigation tool. The player count thing I can agree with, it can be quite empty at times, but I don't know if they can increase it without running into other issues. Sorry for the ping by the way.

Players actually aren't hard to find at hotspots too, you just have to know where said hotspots are.

[dusk meteor]

its not necessary and not really salt. A new player's experience is very important and not finding people to interactive with is a legitimate and massive turnoff for new people.

[obsidian jetty]

@opaque smelt I think the utah is fine (apart from the magnetic pounce), it's the carno that is in a rather weird spot. Maybe it's a me problem but from my experience it's almost impossible to actually recover when you're injured and hungry. With 50% hp and 10-15% hunger you're basically done for. The ai won't give enough food to heal up again and hunting players is not really doable (considering that you have to wipe out entire packs/herds to get food most of the time). It feels like one failed hunt can be a death sentence for a carno and I think that's a bit rough.

[zealous stone]

Yeah I get the Isle is meant to be a hardcore survival game, something that I actually like, but that doesn't mean we should just dismiss the concerns of new players. That really doesn't help the game.

If their idea wouldn't be good for the game, it's better to explain why rather than just dismissing them as salty.

[fair hare]

@balmy meadow Why did you diss agree with that, are you one of them LUL

[balmy meadow]

Pardon?

[zealous stone]

Same species fights tend to be pretty lame (at least in the case of Deino), but it would be better to improve them. Cannibalism is meant to be part of the experience.

[balmy meadow]

I disagree because while yes it should be discouraged for non-cannibals to cannibalize, if you’re desperate and it’s your only form of food to cannibalize then you shouldn’t be basically given a death sentence for just surviving

[fair hare]

That's true, I have deleted it but it will make since for the herbs though right?

[balmy meadow]

Well also no, because if a herd mate is on a KOsing spree and you kill the KOser, you would also be punished for it which would be unfair in the long run

Maybe a system where if there is a known cannibal/koser, their name tag could be red instead of the normal white, which would help people avoid possible death

It wouldn’t be like this with carnos and deinos of course, since it’s on their diets

[fair hare]

👍 that's also true alright I bet you someone suggested that xD it's a survival game indeed so got to do what takes to survive also the dinos prop did that 100M years ago.

[fair hare]

Yes Also that will be helpful knowing who is the Koser/Cannibal

[balmy meadow]

Glad to explain! Thank you for not arguing like some others do

[fair hare]

No lol, it's called discussion, you should suggest that it's your option I will support it that's an amazing feedback to give to the devs you can only see the names of your own kind white name = good red name = bad 😛

[solid wedge]

I would say to move the large bodies like a carno would take multiple utahs dragging it, a single utah wont be strong enough to get it out

[lapis swallow]

@summer fern revenge killing . . .

[summer fern]

revenge killing will happen regardless especially on servers that allow payign for grows or do free grows. plus i've seen many juvis try to revenge kill over and over

[obsidian jetty]

and there are more than enough people with multiple accounts, so even taking the unofficial servers with buying dinos and free grows out of it (the devs are mostly considering the official servers anyway) you can't really fully prevent revenge killing...and I mean, like...maybe an extra slot for humans would be something, so you can have a human and a dino? (As I am not particularly interested in them humans I have no idea how they're planning to do that)

[lapis swallow]

But not on officials

And juvies revengekilling always fails

[summer fern]

It'll always happen regardless. people literally have alt accounts for it lol

[lapis swallow]

"the problem is already there, lets worsen it by a lot" your argument

[summer fern]

it's easy to prevent as well. Do what Path of Titans does. Don't allow dinos in that area to be spawned in

[lapis swallow]

Or just do not implement it because its not gonna help anything and is unnessecary. It worsens a problem

[summer fern]

all im syaing is itll happen regardless so why take away something that could still be beneficial. Like elly said even just make it for one dino one human

[lapis swallow]

That could be abused by harrasing rivaling human players or to locate loot

[summer fern]

that's, again, gonna happen regardless

[lapis swallow]

So why make it more often

What does your suggestion help with?

[obsidian jetty]

I mean, I see your point, but you can't not do something probably everyone who played this game, had a fully grown rex on an account and thought "ugh, I don't want to play this rex rn, but I don't want to just throw it away either..." would appreciate, only to prevent the few toxic people from abusing it...

like...I wouldn't really need it, but I've had times as well where I literally said "I can't play with you rn, I have a rex on my account"

[lapis swallow]

This is the reason why you have many different officials

[obsidian jetty]

from my experience that's the reason why people have up to 30 accounts ^^ But be it however it may be, I am cool with it either way, it's just that "revenge killing" as only reason against it...for me personally just isn't convincing, is all I'm saying

[west summit]

Guys, is the queue functional?

[uneven mist]

https://tenor.com/view/dark-phoenix-xmen-professor-x-james-mc-avoy-gif-24712670

[west summit]

before i joyned a server, i had a queue indicator, but now, i dont ahve it anymore

ah

ok

[austere tulip]

Where can I find stego attack power?

[lapis swallow]

Its 1200, I think

@fading trench kapro is not planned, rauisuchus is planned tho

[fading trench]

that was fast... nice tho!

[lapis swallow]

@gleaming drum this game is a survival horror game. Not a "dino pvp game"

And croc has a MASSIVR counter

And what dinos kept legacy balanced lol?

[barren zephyr]

“bird that can peck anything to death” lmao

[barren zephyr]

i may not be an empath but that guy seems very upset 😭

[lapis swallow]

He died to shallows cliffs because he was harassed by pteras and didnt see where he was going lol

[barren zephyr]

😭 so he dogs on the entire game for that?

[faint folio]

@gleaming drum Humans have always been planned; the original concept of the game very much was "humans have to survive a bunch of giant carnivorous prehistoric predators"... Very, very much inspired by Jurassic park. Herbivores and general dino survival was added to the original concept by player request.

Also I have literally never had a pteradon peck anything under 30-40% growth to death. Usually you can jump, knock it from the air, and then one shot it

[uneven mist]

If you get killed by a ptera then that’s skill issue tbh💀

[barren zephyr]

LOL the shade

[lapis swallow]

Yes

[faint folio]

Also, it's okay to be upset about having a particularly bad day and everything dying (I've had those days, too) but blaming it on game design and not just really bad luck on this particular day is not a hot take

[barren zephyr]

exactly

[faint folio]

I mean baby baby carnos, raptors, etc are pretty easy to kill as PT. Not much skill issues when the adult PT is faster and does more damage. But adult dinos should not get killed by pt. They just don't do enough damage

[uneven mist]

Yeah I meant adults, ofc juvis wil die to ptera but also if a ptera is harassing you then go near a stone, log or tree’s where the ptera has a disadvantage

[faint folio]

The man is right, though-- clicking to try to get into a busy server can get extremely frustrating. A queue would help a lot

[scarlet ocean]

@fringe crest, sadly that bump will never come into reality, Punch already addressed that idea, that It’s a interesting consept, but won’t be possible to ever implement. You can find that msg if you search punchpacket on the search bar it’s a shame it can’t, but thought I’d let you know. Alot of people have stopped bumping it cause of the message

[fringe crest]

Oh, thats depressing

I really liked that idea

Thanks for letting me know though

[scarlet ocean]

Yeah everyone did, it has like 400+ upvotes. But sadly it can’t happen, and no problem

[fringe crest]

We'll just pretend I never bumped the message

[faint folio]

Well... On the bright side, they DO read the feedback. And maybe they'll incorporate a few ideas from it into their update to night vision, even if the full system is impossible

[fringe crest]

At least there's that

[scarlet ocean]

Mhm ^

[limber hull]

bold of you to assume that EVERYONE did

[zealous violet]

You guys know the isle was inspired by JP, right? Its okay if there are some mechanics inspired by it, haha. it doesnt have to be the exact same noise.

[proud coral]

Calls are supposed to sound pretty different when tapping vs holding, Utah's used to sound pretty neat. Tap was the bark, hold was the bark + chitter/old old Utah broadcast.

Nowadays it's basically non-existent. Hoping it gets fixed in U9

[zealous violet]

:0 I didnt know that! That sounds awesome, the chittering part I mean.
Its kinda like how in the skin menu it says like 'less, medium, more' or whatever in the drop down menu but theres like hardly any difference at all. They should remove it its so useless. Or make it actually noticeably more different.

[austere tulip]

what are the best settings for fps?

[icy lion]

@solar cave That's currently in the game. Press Tab, then press Nest, then click an egg and press the cycle button

[solar cave]

oh :l

[burnt bone]

@uneven mist I liked the suggestion for the most part, I only have 3 issues.
1: you have a typo when you first talked about the lmb, you said rmb in the first sentence instead.
2: making alt forward do the heavy slam could be a bit awkward. I’d say either make holding it do the alt slam, or looking down do it (similar to pachy headslam)
3: why does the stationary knockdown weaker than the mobile one? I’d keep them roughly the same, maybe stam cost or windup different. If anything the mobile one should be weaker.

[uneven mist]

1. 2. Yeah I like that idea too 3. I my thought was that the mobile one should be it’s escape option so that’s why I choose the stationary one to be weaker and i forgot to mention about a windup and it costing stam

[burnt bone]

The only issue is that the mobile one can also be used offensively as well. I’d make the mobile one keep the stun range, happen quicker, but have a lower knockdown time. The stationary one can only be used defensively, so it should have the 3 ton knockdown range, stun for longer, but have longer wind up.
That way stationary is better for combat (which is why you would be stationary) and the mobile would be better as a way to create distance, but not so good offensively.

[uneven mist]

now that i think about it yeah it is a much better idea

[burnt bone]

Glad I can help magy be less janky

[uneven mist]

would help it being a better brwaler/wrestler

[uneven mist]

wish i could edit it but seems like i cant or ill try for a little bit but if i am not able to then i wul go to bed

[burnt bone]

Basically, it can brawl with smaller things and others it’s size, but would prefer to run from larger threats (maybe even break and run if it can).

[burnt bone]

Odd. Are you the owner of the doc?

[uneven mist]

yes

[burnt bone]

If anything, make a new one with the edits, and replace the link with the new one

[uneven mist]

nvm i was just on a differnt account

[burnt bone]

Lol

Hopefully the devs give it a look and take some ideas from it. It could work well.

[uneven mist]

Ok there changed it, better?

[burnt bone]

On the stationary part: “and to not obviously not die”

You didn’t change the alt forward

Also, I thought of the stationary knockdown as a way to set up the slam against larger threats to help break and run, rather than to actually brawl them.

( sorry if Im nitpicking )

[uneven mist]

It’s alright

[uneven mist]

Ok I’m editing this to

[burnt bone]

Sounds good from there👍

[uneven mist]

There I think that’s about it, can you check just in case?

[burnt bone]

Looks good 👍
Hopefully the devs consider it

[uneven mist]

Yeah I hope one of the devs see’s it

[surreal sedge]

@gleaming drum i don't have any kind words to say about your opinion other than i dont think someone as young as you should be playing the game, especcially considering the upcoming gore update, as others have said humans were always planned if you dont like it go play path of titans or bob, but beasts of bermuda has an even worse flyer problem than you standing still and letting yourself get killed by a ptera.

[balmy drift]

@duh-arian sorry but i can barely read what ur saying

[barren zephyr]

Duh-arian must have left coz I can't tag him. Anyways people like that are so incredibly immature and cannot appreciate the amount of energy that goes into making such games. Especially games that are geared towards realism. I agree the game needs improvement like any other game, and other dev teams may roll out updates more frequently but that's beside the point. If you are gonna be a part of any gaming community have some respect, try to be more understanding and deal with any shortcomings or maybe take a step back, grown up some more then return. People are so entitled! People on here be complaining about A GAME, some people don't even have a phone..no wait..some people aren't even able to put food on the table every day or sleep in a comfortable bed or have zero access to fresh water...and people dare to complain about such trival matters. All I can say is they need a BIG reality check and be more grateful for what they do have. Rant over.

[valid zephyr]

scrolled back through to look at the NV reception.

looks like it went down as well as I thought it would.

evidently not just me it's causing migraines for. and seizures for others....

absolute yikes.

and sure a photosensetivity warning on the game is good and all, but it still doesn't address the issue of numerous people just being unable to play anymore due to it.

[frozen agate]

wtf is wrong with these servers? keep getting kicked out for not apparent reason and then cant connect back again even tho there always shows 94-99/100 and they are always full

[uneven mist]

Visual bug

[queen ember]

As long as Magy can be sort of the tanky version of Teno where it has a variety of attacks to fight I’m good

And Unironically a coastal Magy is just cool

[uneven mist]

Yeah thats what i want to, to make magy the tank out of the smal mid tiers

[queen ember]

I consider them basically psuedo mids

[uneven mist]

Yeah that to

If there is 1 ability i hope gets implement is the throw

[queen ember]

A throw would be cool

[gritty terrace]

@jagged jewel how come you put an X? did the devs confirm they aren't doing it?

[jagged jewel]

No, having a flying hyper just isn't fun imo

[gritty terrace]

well once again like how actual quetz is you can just have it be mostly terrestrial

[jagged jewel]

at that point just add hatzeg lmao

[gritty terrace]

?

it wouldn't be able to do the thing where it smashes into something from the sky, and that is like saying oh having hyper rex isn't fun just add blank

it is overall a really good design

the almost MUTO look to it gives it a gnarly aesthetic that I enjoy a lot

[queen ember]

TBF hypers will be extremely hard to get and maintain. So even seeing one is such a rare chance. Also, that’s saying you even run into it. They are meant to be unbalanced due to how hard and rare is is to get them as come by them

[jagged jewel]

Yeah, but a flying hyper has the ability to just find food WAY easier.

[gritty terrace]

just make it so the flying is more for the bash ability and it can only fly in bursts

I think that would be a cool way to do it

[queen ember]

Hypers will also require a ton of food. So either way it’ll be a struggle to maintain it

That’s the whole point is they constantly need to eat due to how much they require

If it’s flying, that’s in theory worse cause it’ll be easier to spot

[gritty terrace]

but making it not fly as much would be a cool idea, making it so it can just wrestle down stuff that isn't apex sized then just use a TON of stam to do the air bash attack for bigger shiz

[jagged jewel]

an apex proceeds to find the flightless hyper quetz and mauls it to death

[queen ember]

Ehhh, it’s fine if it flys. We don’t want to make it near impossible for it to get food cause it still needs to hunt and I doubt it’ll be able to go very fast on land

[jagged jewel]

i'd prefer it flying even more

[gritty terrace]

that is fair

[jagged jewel]

like, wasting a ton of stam, but going super fast

[gritty terrace]

cuz if they do add air vehicles that would be the most terrifying thing

[queen ember]

The chance of a hyper Quetz being in the exact area a merc uses a helicopter is unlikely

[burnt bone]

My main thing with hypers is that they need to be loud. So a solo can hide, but good luck hiding your mega/mixpack

[gritty terrace]

good

hypers pretty much being the mega pack wipers is actually a really cool niche

[jagged jewel]

based pfp

[queen ember]

They are population control

[gritty terrace]

exactly

[queen ember]

Kill off big herds, kill off big packs

[gritty terrace]

and all the small ones or stuff that can hide can thrive

omg the fact that they moderate the word s h i t is irritating

[queen ember]

No chance a hyper will even attempt going after anything smaller than a Carno

[jagged jewel]

they moderate all swears now lmao

its awful

[gritty terrace]

it is so irritating

I have been robbed so many feeback posts it isn't even funny

cuz the timer counts it

[queen ember]

There is one word….that won’t get sniped

[jagged jewel]

what is it

[queen ember]

Bullshit

[gritty terrace]

YES

[jagged jewel]

wow

[gritty terrace]

THANK YOU LMAO

[queen ember]

[gritty terrace]

but yeah hyper quetz I think is a really good idea either way tho to sum everything up, plenty of ways to balance it if you can get stuff easier like making the food drain EVEN MORE or something

[queen ember]

It’s fine as a hyper who flys

[gritty terrace]

exactly

[queen ember]

At the end of the day. Players would put in a lot of work to get it

[gritty terrace]

even if they do not do it, do NOT scrap the design, please cannabilize it for something else or something

the design for it is 10/10

[burnt bone]

Ty

[crystal trail]

I'm certain you can articulate your sentences without resorting to curse words. It's actually cut down on a fair bit of toxicity.

Like there was one guy that came in and was spamming profanities, aimed at various people. But he didn't realise it was a bot that was censoring his vulgar comments, so he continued doing it for ages, thinking he was wasting a moderators time.

[jagged jewel]

what what? for real?

[queen ember]

That’s just straight up funny

[jagged jewel]

yea i had no idea people did that

well mb punch i'll avoid saying stuff like that

[urban flax]

I remember this guy who thought the word "refund" was censored because he tried to post a very salty feedback but it was deleted

[gritty terrace]

that is great

[lapis swallow]

That is pretty funny

[jade brook]

yeah i remember that, it was hilarious. And iirc, his name was "poopoo", staying with the theme

[icy lion]

@shell adder

[shell adder]

ty

[valid zephyr]

@tardy talon what are forum channels?

[lapis swallow]

@snow meadow then it takes all the skill out of defending your baby

[snow meadow]

No it doesn't

[lapis swallow]

It does

If you cant hit it, you are gonna become VERY reckless of how you can hit it

[snow meadow]

How does killing your own baby due to lag have anything to do with skill

[lapis swallow]

I think its not to lag many times

[snow meadow]

It would also give an incentive to nest.

[lapis swallow]

It was just unfortunate

[lapis swallow]

It would just lower the skillbar

[snow meadow]

Skill bar lol

[lapis swallow]

And it would make hunting babys pretty difficult because you cant even play around the attacks of the adult cause they can attack through their baby

A tactic as a utah is to run into the group of stegos and bite the baby because they wont swing at you cause they will kill the baby. That perk makes strats like this pointless

[snow meadow]

Just git gud

[lapis swallow]

Wtf, I just told you a strat, that is good, and you respond with "git gud" while making a suggestion to make defending your babys brainless lol

[snow meadow]

I'm joking my dude.

[tardy talon]

Essentially a channel that works like a forum (think 4chan, or something similar) but inside a discord server. Users can make their own threads within the channel and people can look through those threads and talk about the suggestion. Would make feedback a lot more organized imo, and probably easier for the devs to respond too as well.

[valid zephyr]

that's quite a cool feature

i agree would be super useful for suggestions

[hoary dawn]

aight im a bit late to this one but how tf could people be opposed to this, the early viewings we got of the flight system were objectively better than what we have now

[sick pond]

soup brain disease, probably terminal. very sad

[faint folio]

what's different about it? looks exactly like the current flight. unless you mean inf stam? or maybe flight following the mouse?

But if you are talking about flight following the mouse, i dislike that. it prevents you from looking around without disturbing your flight path. what if I want to see if anything is behind me or below? I cant without turning around or divebombing the ground. its a major limitation of the "ark style" flying. once you get used to separated mouse and flight controls, its REALLY nice and hard to go back to the clunky way 😛

[hoary dawn]

that flight has gravity

notice how when he takes off he is immediately pulled back down in an arc, current flight does not do that

[icy lion]

Mouseflight still exists in game right now, just only when you hold W

[hoary dawn]

they stated in the first dev blog that these videos showed a more gliding based system, and that it was scrapped for a "more relaxed experience"

the 2 are very different when you look at them

[faint folio]

ah... tbh it just looked like they were intentionally flying into the ground

[hoary dawn]

https://youtu.be/h9ktXs0JECA like this, this is not possible with the flight in the game now

[hoary dawn]

the ptera loses momentum before the camera points down

current flight doesn't allow for that kind of motion

[arctic path]

arent they adding aerodynamic thermals

theyll prolly add inertia alongside

[hoary dawn]

thermals just allow you to gain altitude without the stam cost that climbing has, it doesn't mean the whole system would be changed

[arctic path]

id imagine since quetz will be added it will need it aswell

one can hope ig

[hoary dawn]

also alt looking exists

[buoyant coyote]

Yeah I get what you say, in the video it looks so much better, I think the flying system should be based on gliding and to maintain altitude you’d need to flap your wings

[vagrant mist]

dose anyone know how fix fatal error

[icy lion]

Try checking the pinned messages in #🔧-evrima-troubleshooting-🔧

[frozen verge]

Agree with being able to "locate" deinos underwater. Instead of ripples, linked with AI shoaling fish, perhaps some air bubbles instead that stay for a second or two and then pop? The bigger the bubbles the larger the enemy, essentially

I play predominantly small dinos, e.g. ptera, hypsi.. the amount of times ive been jumpscared and immediately killed by a huge croc without any prior warning has been super offputting. I usually have to take the extra step to consider where unlikely places would be for a croc to hang out at, such as the waterfall before the coast, the waterfall that connects lovers rock / river to the center of the map

And by which time im out of stamina, low on food, and have to make the travel back to main food spots and then oops im thirsty again. Cant go and do Ptera things when my thirst drains quicker than the speed of light

[jagged jewel]

No, you need to manually go up, and it has more effort, and actual momentum, which is something the current floght lacks. I’m not saying make it clunky again. That’s just twisting my words. I said make it MECHANICALLY similar again. As in, re-add the momentum, etc.

[faint folio]

No i understand now. other people explained. it wasnt immediately obvious from the video and im newer to the game

[jagged jewel]

Ah, apologies

It’s just that the current flying feels too…robotic?

[sage sleet]

the fact you lose all momentum when you go up by the slightest tiniest most insignificant amount is so frustrating

[jade brook]

2 little thing i do dislike is how the turns with a and d are so sensitive, i end up always turning with w for a smooth yaw for my own aesthetic appreciation...
and how quick you regain speed by pressing spacebar or w after airbreaking. Both these things do make flight a bit awkward imo

@pine forum There's already plenty of safe spots to drink, and Deinos already make ripples when they approach surface and loud splashes when they immerge/submerge.
The deino that got you was just good and lucky enough to ambush you properly

[balmy plinth]

reminds me of ark griffin diving

[balmy plinth]

YES

[austere tulip]

im stuck. how do i get unstuck?

[hallow vigil]

try crouching/relogging. If those dont work and its an official sever, i think you can go to the proper server channel (like, if you're on an official EU server, you would go to #evrima-eu ) and ping the official server admin role and ask them to unstuck you (make sure to say what your ingame name is)

[limber hull]

@barren zephyr u are aware they have confirmed that species diets probably wont be in

it'll be more organ focused

[barren zephyr]

Was it in the devblog?

[limber hull]

yes

[limber hull]

@barren zephyr what makes legacy's NV "actual" NV and not this one?

[barren zephyr]

You can’t see crap. It hurts peoples eyes

[limber hull]

old NV also made you not see crap

new NV actually lets you see more than the old

[barren zephyr]

No

[limber hull]

it literally does

[barren zephyr]

Not sure what the hell is wrong with people in the head

Maybe download legacy and see for yourself

[limber hull]

i have

i've got several hundred hours on legacy

[barren zephyr]

Yeah just seeing silhouettes doesn’t do anything

Only positive thing is easy tracking bleed

[limber hull]

New NV lets you see beyond the set radius, lets you see colour, lets you see light sources from a great distances, can be used at day without considerably changing anything, works seamlessly between night and day, etc

[jagged jewel]

Causing health issues =/= lack of visibility

[barren zephyr]

Yup

[jagged jewel]

You can see stuff, they just need to fix certain parts to make it not give people borderline seizures

[barren zephyr]

I can see just fine but it still bothers the hell out of a lot of people

[jagged jewel]

It bothers them for reasons different than visibility

[barren zephyr]

And maybe make it like legacy, cause that nv is just better overall

[limber hull]

no it isnt

[jagged jewel]

I hate legacy NV, this version is more interesting. They just need to tweak it

[limber hull]

legacy NV is worse designed, 100%

[barren zephyr]

We’ll legacy doesn’t give people seizures

[jagged jewel]

But that’s not even a visibility issue

Legacy NV outright flashbangs people

[limber hull]

i also like how this dude upvotes himself, thumbs up himself and puts a pin emote on his own suggestion lmao

[jagged jewel]

LOL i didnt realize

[valid zephyr]

legacy NV doesn't give migraines just looking at it for 2 mins

[jagged jewel]

^

[valid zephyr]

yeah that's pretty cringe

[jagged jewel]

They need to fix the health issues, yes, but from a game design and utility standpoint evrima’s is more interesting

[limber hull]

sounds like an issue related to the poor interactions with anti-aliasing, not the system itself (i have tested this)

[barren zephyr]

Didn’t know people are this sensitive

[jagged jewel]

what

[limber hull]

I just thought it was funny

[jovial hazel]

Yeah. Just needs to be fixed. The system itself could work. For some reason it works much better on amd gpus than nvidia as well.

Just needs some tweaking.

[jagged jewel]

Yeah

[barren zephyr]

Yeah it’s pretty funny let’s have some beer while we laugh 🍻

[valid zephyr]

Like even if it wasn't causing migraines I'd hate the new NV, as it just looks bad and more like echolocation than actual NV.

But I'm physically not able to use it unless I want to be ill for the rest of the day.

[limber hull]

you seem upset

didn't know people were this sensitive

[valid zephyr]

The game has been uninstalled to make space until that gets fixed.

(and immortal empires needs a lot of room)

[jagged jewel]

How would you make it look good and useful in the context of evrima’s plans?

[jovial hazel]

What does actual night vision look like?

[jagged jewel]

We know how cats see at night atleast

[barren zephyr]

Same here go cry me a river

[jagged jewel]

Kinda just a blurred version of day

[limber hull]

this is an unanswerable question and you're never gonna get a solid answer

[valid zephyr]

shades of grey. as the cells which are more photosensitive can't detect colour.

[jagged jewel]

It depends on the animal.

[limber hull]

lmao dude i just disagree that legacy is better literally calm down

[valid zephyr]

the closest approximation you can get as a human would be walking around when it's still light enough to see, but dark enough that you've lost your colour vision.

[jagged jewel]

Some animals almost see it as if it was day, others see it how you described.

[valid zephyr]

the new NV looks like some weird echolocation. rather than actual NV

[jagged jewel]

Okay, but it’s based off of military tech, ofc it doesn’t

[jovial hazel]

Well, looking at it from a game balancing standpoint.. What they put out works, albeit there are some flaws for sure. Gamma or filters doesn't break it and let you see any better than someone without it. It works for the most part. Most of those things kind of trump realism to a certain point.

[limber hull]

old NV was based off trailcams, also unrealistic as hell

[jovial hazel]

Don't get me wrong, I hate it right now. It sucks playing with it. Hoping they get it right soon.

[valid zephyr]

That's partially why I dislike it. It would suit some NV goggles used by mercs.

Not actual animals.

[urban flax]

What I don't like with this new NV is that it only works if it's pitch black
But nights shouldn't be pitch black

[jovial hazel]

Think the pitch black is mainly to combat gamma abuse, though.

Might be inevitable.

[urban flax]

I know it's kind of an unsolvable issue

[valid zephyr]

never thought i'd say it but i'm rooting for the gamma abusers now.

[jovial hazel]

Lol

[urban flax]

But I was wondering, when humans and artifical lights are in, wouldn't gamma abuse become a disadvantage rather than an advantage ? I'm not certain how it works, but then a human directing their flashlight to you would make you instantly go blind

[limber hull]

death lmao

[valid zephyr]

If your choice is:

A: Use gamma for NV
B: Make yourself physically ill via migraine (or have seizures if you're one of the unluckly few) and use official NV.

It's understandable why people are picking option A

[jovial hazel]

That's the thing though. Gamma doesn't even help with this NV. Which was the point.

[urban flax]

So all those tricks and workarounds to prevent gamma abuse may be redundant in the future

[lapis swallow]

i dont have migraine

[valid zephyr]

the actual trailcam vision is more realistic than what we have now.

what trailcameras have which animals don't is an IR light to make things bright.

[valid zephyr]

Some of us are vulnerable to getting them. I have at least one a month.

[lapis swallow]

thats sad, i feel bad for you

[jovial hazel]

There is definite eye strain playing with this night vision. I don't think anyone can really argue that.

[urban flax]

Not for me but it isn't really helpful
My screen is so dark the outlines are grey instead of white (and I don't have any software to artificially up my gamma further)

[limber hull]

i still like the NV and think it looks sick

[jovial hazel]

Out of curiousity, do you have an amd gpu?

[limber hull]

I have an RTX, so no

[jagged jewel]

legacy NV is literally just trail cam footage

[valid zephyr]

And that was fine with me.

[jagged jewel]

that's a bit hypocritical

you dislike evrima NV because it doesn't resemble actual animal NV

yet you like the trail cam filter we have on legacy

[jagged jewel]

yeah he made beipi too

bruh

[valid zephyr]

I dislike the evrima NV because it gives me a migraine within 10 mins of using it

also trail camera footage is far closer to actual NV than the evrima stuff. The main unrealistic part of it is that trail cams have an IR light providing artificial illumination.

[jagged jewel]

That's more related to anti aliasing than the actual NV system.

[valid zephyr]

but in the end, I will always prefer the NV which I can physically use without getting ill.

[jagged jewel]

Indeed, but i'm saying IF they fix the things related to health issues (one of which isn't even a part of the actual mechanic, mind you), it would make evrima NV more interesting

[valid zephyr]

and from my pov still uglier and less realistic than legacy NV

A more realistic one would have heavily greyscale and slightly darker than day vision. But an even level of illumination both close up and at a distance.

similar to legacy but without the artificial bright light close up, and without it being completely dark outside that lit up range

[lapis swallow]

@somber wraith it makes sense for a few sounds to travel farther, deep sounds travel farther. This is why stegos calls travel VERY far

[obsidian jetty]

Pachys seem to be extremely loud tho, sometimes feel like I can hear them halfway across the map ^^

[urban flax]

It would feel weird having a rex's roar travel the exact same distance as a dryo's squeak...

[burnt bone]

Pachy is just an outlier for whatever reason. Mostly that 3 call seems to be bugged.

[kindred minnow]

Okay so my general feed back is this. Nobody likes the server resets or crashing that keeps happening. BUT it is understandable somewhat in a Beta game. What we are all really tired of since the update is that it resets to midnight and you must endure a unnecessary amount of darkness over and over again. Especially when you have kinks to work out for those people who want to vomit using the night vision.

Proposal: Rather than restarting to midnight each restart, part of the server startup needs to be establishing a "in-game" time. This should be relative to UTC and in accordance with your existing in-game vs real life time frames. For instance, if each hour in life were half a day in the game, then you would simply create a function that looks at UTC time, and based on that existing math establishes a "in game time" so that when we come back to the server, its closer to where we left off, as opposed to midnight in the game.

This will help curb frustration from your players for minimal effort. The in game time is what ultimately impacts the user experience for daylight and night time visibility. Just make it so we lost 5 minutes instead of coming back to darkness when it crashed at 7AM on the game.

Please and thank you.

[icy lion]

#general-feedback

[urban flax]

@winter oyster Isn't the point of banning or muting people not allowing them to give their opinion ?

[winter oyster]

I’m just a vessel for him man… it’s not my opinion but I wanted to do him a favour. We’ll see if that suggestion even stays up…

[strange wave]

@icy lion

[icy lion]

I just work here, man. You'll have to ask Punch or Saoul about that ruling

[strange wave]

alright

[icy lion]

The general idea is that providing feedback and suggestions is a privilege, just like being able to participate in the server as a whole

We do not allow role or ban evasion, and part of that extends to using other people to get around those punishments

[strange wave]

i see

i've already let rick know
thank you for explaining

[icy lion]

Of course, let me know if you have any other questions (though this may be something better explained by Punch or Saoul)

[strange wave]

from what rick is saying he's already speaking to one or both of them

[icy lion]

@strange wave @winter oyster Something that completely slipped my mind (and I apologize for remembering this so late) is that getting muted/banned in here does not automatically carry over to the Steam forums and/or subreddit(s). I know Punch checks the Steam forums so that may be the best option to share feedback, suggestions, concerns, etc.

[strange wave]

interesting

[winter oyster]

@barren zephyr read this, man^

[blissful thistle]

I have noticed a lot of mix packers are against my stress/comfort meter idea, or a lot of carnivore players are against open chat and groups between herbivores? Lol no one specified?

[limber hull]

I hate mixpacking, but I still would hate a stress/comfort meter because of how easily it'd be abused

[blissful thistle]

? Please do explain?

[hallow vigil]

herbis used to have local chat across all species back in the day, but it led to mass herds coordinating too much and being pretty unstoppable

[blissful thistle]

Mass unstoppable herds still happen, except carnivores are part of them now. . .

[hallow vigil]

ya but that doesnt mean we should be buffing them with perfect communication tho lol

plus different species shouldnt be able to communicate perfectly, just because they both eat plants imo

[limber hull]

a bunch of utahraptors surround a stego in order to debuff the hell out of it and make it infertile so it cant nest

[blissful thistle]

Perfect? Not everyone will be in vc, still have to stop moving and type, plus my stress meter idea refers to infertility aswell, meaning even if herbivores want to breed then they must go out on their own to do so, and yes, naturally herbivores won’t start breeding while carnivores are close, so that’s normal. lol

[limber hull]

so carnivores can just troll

and you will never be able to nest

[hallow vigil]

i meant "perfect communication" moreso in the sense of like, a trike can literally tell a tenonto what it wants to do, word for word. As opposed to just using body language/calls

[blissful thistle]

So can herbivores, I’m not just targeting one type here, carnivores won’t be able to hang around each other(than their own species) nor any other species long, it effects nesting, diet/ water drain under stress. I’m not trying to put one in a seat of advantage. Just want to add to the realism that’s all.

I think it would make the game much better, and much less “giant group of herbs and carns wipes map of all other players” lol

[hallow vigil]

i also want a system that punishes mixpacking, I've thought about the idea of a stress system for a while, but i also had the fear that it would be easy to abuse. How is the one in BoB?

[blissful thistle]

It’s an odd one, but they use stress from weather aswell, which makes sense but the degree it effects you really impairs playability unless you specifically stat to its resistance. Lol

[faint folio]

I think moreso than people being straight up against the idea, they are concerned about how to implement it effectively. Let me illustrate

First, consider the situation of a utah pack on the hunt. They find a stego, which is on their diet, and go to work. The stego backs up to a tree, or stego rock in NW, and the fight stalls and becomes a war of attrition. If a mixpacking debuff were to occur, it would impact the stego and the utahs, despite them literally being the opposite of a mixpack, and any 3rd party that joins (another stego, carnos, tenos, etc) would find it much easier to kill the utahs (which are already 1-2 shot anyways) and then the stego, despite both playing as intended

Second, consider the situation of players who enjoy harassing other players (aka trolls). A pack of trolls playing utah, pachy, etc, could use their speed to run around and chase other players, intentionally applying the debuffs to prevent nesting, weaken them for fighting, etc. Some groups may even use scouts and spies to weaken a target by applying the debuff before the actual fighting group rolls in to clean up. There are too many ways to abuse a system like this unless done carefully

[blissful thistle]

I’m curious why you think infertility and slight water and diet drain speed increase will lower everyone’s max health?

I could understand if I mentioned like increased stamina drain or something, but I made a point to choose effects that do not effect combat in the slightest.

[limber hull]

also, it begs the question, does a 6 ton super herbivore like stego become uncomfortable by the presence of a kg heavy utahraptor hatchling

[blissful thistle]

no I would have it so hatchlings of any kind produce little to no stress to those around them. 🙂

[faint folio]

And third, about the herbi cross-species communication: if the goal is to limit mixpacking, mixpacking herbis are just as dangerous as mixpacking carnis, realism or no. A pachy, stego, and teno mixpack can easily do the following combo: pachy fractures leg, inhibiting movement. Teno comes in and stuns. Stego comes in and applies 1000 damage.... on top of the teno kick/smack damage and the pachy bonk damage. Devastating.

And if the goal is realism, well... different species really dont understand each other's body language that well. Domestic pets have to learn to interpret other pets' behavior, a dog does not know that its kinda rude to sniff a cat's butt in cat body language, despite that being a totally normal part of dog social skills. So, while they may get the general idea of very specific ideas (hiss/growl means stay away, eg 3 call = bad), i dont think they'd get the nuances enough to be able to communicate more complex ideas between species, even between different herbis.

[limber hull]

how about a pteranodon, a non-hunter carnivore, which it has no chance of hitting or harming, but can stay safe within its "stress" radius

theres too many niche cases where animals will interact weirdly

compy is an adult carnivore, does that stress out stegos?

[faint folio]

well, in the case of my example, the increased hunger drain may mean that the utahs are forced to leave combat and try to find an AI or other food, whereas they couldve tried to hunt the stego for longer (and may end up successful) had the debuff not been applied. And for creatures with high water drain (tenos), being hunted by carnos or utahs may apply enough debuff that they have to try to move to water to drink while they are still fighting the carnos, which could complicate the situation further. Besides, both cases are punishing players who are ostensibly NOT mixpacking, and shouldnt get a punishment at all

[faint folio]

It would be like me, an American that knows english and just enough spanish to get the general gist of conversations without being able to fluently communicate, trying to talk to someone who only spoke french. There's enough in common that we could probably kinda cobble together some rough communication, but a LOT would get lost in translation

[blissful thistle]

So would it be more acceptable to have a stress meter, that when implemented, applied the following effects,

1. when herbivore's hang around other herbivore species for "long" periods of time, an infertility debuff will activate, not letting them breed while near other species, and will deactivate once a certain distance away from them after a short delay.
   (this also counts for Carnivores with a shortened time till activation towards all species other than their own).

2. The stress effect would not be produced by hatchlings of any kind, until they reach Juvenile, which will produced little stress effects that raise with age until adult, in turn dino's effected will take "much longer" to be effected by the debuff by large amounts from very young dinos. Hatchies will also not be effected by stress effects until they reach Juvenile, which will apply smaller scale effects until grown.

3. If carnivores or herbivores stay too close to each other for "long" periods, a stress debuff will apply the following effect: Stress bar drain, which once empty, will apply impatience to carnivores which forces them to attack randomly(like the spasms but more frequent) but does forfeit control of movement, after a carnivore is exposed to this effect for a long period, a desperation buff will apply some temporary armor but also lower speed by a small small amount for a short period, in turn Herbivores will have the terrified debuff forcing them to call for help randomly and on the very odd occasion spitting up small amounts of food, (which can be obtained again by grazing).
   These effects will disappear a short delay after the herbivores and carnivores have separated from each other a certain distance.

4. Adult Pteranodon's will only apply Juvenile stress effects to other species adults due to them being more scavengers than hunters, but apply full effects to juveniles that decrease as they age.

On the side of the communication (stopping mid combat to type is not a buff), having the stress effects would mean that a proximity chat between all herbivores (not global) would be feasible, and larger herds will be hunt capable but difficult, I would also have it so herbivore groups can be much larger, but every time you invite an herbivore of another species, it take up twice the space.

This adds some realism, will combat some of the mix packing and will make combat even more exciting, of course this is my opinion and also may not be perfect, but with some work could be a very intricate system that evolves gameplay entirely. 😄 please share thoughts. 😄

[urban flax]

The best solution would be to not have a stress meter at all

[blissful thistle]

ah yes, getting constantly stomped by a map wiping carni herby mega mix pack is so much more desirable than actually having a game to play. lol

[urban flax]

That "stress system" you suggest would probably fix nothing, and it it needs special rules to solve nothing but the problem it creates by itself. I don't want to play a game in which everytime I see another dino, I must refer to a wikipedia chart to know wether I must kill it instantly or not
Currently with 9 playables you put 2 exceptions already (not mentioning the fact herbivores and carnivores don't have the same effects from it)
So yes, I prefer having to deal with the occasionnal mixpack rather than having a wonky mechanic decide how I must play without even making sense.

[blissful thistle]

but there is no game to play? map wiping carni herby mega mix packs have wiped me out on every (official) server, and every private server i have joined. lol i'd rather have a few little restrictions, then not be allowed to play at all.

[urban flax]

You're the only person I've ever seen complaining that much about that issue. I've only died to a utah megapack once, the rest of the time I managed to avoid them just fine. You're just unlucky I guess

And saying you can't play at all, sorry for not trusting you, but it's probably way exagerrated

[blissful thistle]

yeah okay, i exaggerated a little bit, i can play alone and starve to death as a carni (or just outright alone as an herby), or i can meet up with other players and either get stomped by all of them, or trampled by the incoming mega mix pack that follows shortly. also you must not read the official server chats much then, because it's a very commonly discussed subject. lol

[urban flax]

I don't need to read the chats I only play of officials so I see what happens there

[blissful thistle]

so you dont read the chats, yet claim i am the only one complaining? lol and i mostly play on officials. XD because most private servers are dead, i guess you wouldn't see someones complaints then, dead dino cannot chat in global.

[urban flax]

I always read every feedback channel and I also read isle-discussion pretty often. I think that's enough to know what people's issues are.
I don't say the mixpacking problem doesn't exist, I just say your solution is a bad one.

[cedar quartz]

#isle-discussion message
@hasty dagger

Reason why we don’t have any rules on officials

[blissful thistle]

Look, i don't want to argue with you, i put an idea up, i want peoples honest opinions on the suggested idea, and reasoning, not the american "Shut up don't take my guns" response. lol so have a good day mate.

[urban flax]

If we read it rule by rule, that's what I see :

1. Herbivores can still mixpack, but not nest. Like it matters anyway. RIP nesting grounds even more I guess.
2. Hatchlings aren't affected because deep down you know the system is flawed. So juvies mixpacks are fine too.
3. Ruining long hunts :) But you also get a useless buff for some reason. And herbivores are now automatically scared of anything with teeth but now they can eat their vomit. Great.
4. Pteranodon is allowed to mixpack, but it can ALSO apply mixpacking debuffs to others, it just takes longer.

As for the "stress debuffs" themselves... They'd just be annoying and not prevent anything. Like a group of mixpackers would care if their dino randomly calls. They can just curbstomp everyone else in the server, as you say, right ?

[blissful thistle]

who hurt you? why cant you be civil with this? you a mix packer? lol it very clearly states that my idea is not perfect and needs work, there is no need to completely stomp on it and behave like a spoiled brat about it, your responses sound as if i have the power to implement this myself and you need to stop it now!!? lol i get it, there will need to be work to it, but i also want to throw in that i never stated eating vomit, that was you, i said lost food can be regained by grazing, last i checked we graze grass not vomit, and i never stated Ptera are unnaffected by stress, just that they induce little of it to others. please respond in a reasonable attitude or i shall ignore you from there on. have a good day.

[urban flax]

I'm being civil here, but you must be aware that a stress system has already been suggested plenty of times and everytime people came here to explain how bad of an idea it is. If you think I'm being aggressive here, you should probably delete your original message before harsher people feel the need to give their opinion on it.

[faint folio]

well... tbh, I havent had that many issues with bumping into mixpacking carni/herbi packs. the main thing is to avoid center, shallows, and NW, and hang at the less popular spots, and 19/20 times i am fine even on officials and grouping with complete randoms. heck, most people dont even canni on canni species.

I did point out a few issues with your proposed stress system that did NOT include "mixpacking is good and should be allowed/encouraged", and your extended/updated stress system still didn't really address them. Also, your improved stress system does not address massive weight differences (an 8 ton deino should not be particularly worried about a 500kg utah, even if both are full adult), it simply makes an exception for ptera.

Moreover, the stress system has been implemented on BoB, and it is VERY unpopular from what i have heard, which is why people react so strongly to it here.

[blissful thistle]

Thanks for your thoughts on this, and yes as i stated it is not perfect and not everything will have come to mind in the mere 10 min it took to come up with the updated idea's effects, i do agree that BoB's is unpopular, mainly because if it rains your dino can have a heart attack and die. . . . . and i do agree that weight and size should effect how much stress is produced to those around you, a Stress system that would work for the isle would be difficult for the dev's to implement yes i agree with that, and concerning the mix packing, i have tried all reaches of the map (in all NA/EU/AU/SA servers), even the entire beach line, i just seem to have a very bad luck of the draw i guess.

[blissful thistle]

Yes i am aware that it's been suggested, and most of the complaints on said suggestions would most likely come from mix packers doing the "American: Shut up don't take my guns. responses", if people wish to get aggressive with me over my idea i will ignore them, accomplishes nothing for them and just points out mix packers to me, 2 birds 1 stone, non mix packers would discuss, not stomp and rant. lol

[urban flax]

That is actually not true

[formal notch]

cope

[faint folio]

to be fair, bubulblu has been discussing and pointed out several flaws to your idea. they've also been pretty civil, even though they are very firm in their belief that the stress system is bad and should not be implemented. To be honest, I mostly agree with his points (though I wouldve tried to phrase them a bit more politely). To rephrase it more politely:

[formal notch]

While a stress system is a cool idea to add to realism, there is also a survival of the fittest aspect to the game which seems to excite a lot of experienced players. Coming from a lot of hours on Legacy, the new aspects of evrima are already a lot harsher and I'm sure a lot of other people agree.

[faint folio]

1. So mixpacking prevents nesting. However, most mixpackers are looking for fights, not to nest. So this wont actually impact mixpackers that are causing issues, but it may affect different species that are gathered at a nesting ground to nest... countering the buffs provided by nesting grounds further and making them even more unpopular than they already are.

2. The main issue with this is stress applied should not be tied to age, but rather weight and number. an adult hypsi should logically be a lot more scared of an adult carno than the carno should be of the hypsi. age should not come into it at all.

3. anything that forfeits control of movement will be incredibly unpopular. but what is the point of making carnis randomly bite? is it to cause increased friendly fire? because then the mixpackers can just spread out just slightly and be fine. the desperation buff sounds interesting, but not sure how it would be implemented. as for the herbis, random calling will not impact mixpackers much anyways (they are looking to fight, which is the problem, remember? people looking for fights intentionally call to attract people over) and punishes players that are actually being attacked by potentially attracting more enemies over. Additionally, making herbis actively lose food and have to spend time grazing to regain it will have limited effect on mixpackers, who have numbers to defend grazing group members, but it WILL hurt herbis being attacked by carnis because they will randomly lose food and be forced to stop fighting players that are trying to kill them to graze so they dont starve and lose health from this as well.

4. This is an interesting mechanic, but may be too complicated to be useful for players.

[barren zephyr]

@hasty dagger i dont think dinosaurs had rules back then

[thorny crag]

Kos reality yas

Stego mixpacking with carnos confirmed?

Paleontologist are shocked by new study... /s

[blissful thistle]

Again, thanks for not just stamping and staying polite, yeah the mechanic would be complicated i will admit, tho i do think a mechanic like this would be feasible, but in a much less exaggerated effect than people assume i meant, and the reason i said age over weight was because one determines the other (growth), so essentially the same thing, and yeah naturally smaller dinos would produce less stress to bigger ones and bigger produce more to smaller, also could have the Herbivore herd nesting debuff not activate/deactivate within the perimeter of nesting grounds (which in turn should increase their use) (if they were closer to water lol). I never intended for the mixpack debuff to make people just randomly start vomiting when a carni shows up, but if it and it's pack hang around for too long and stress levels get too high, then adverse effects will eventually accrue. it's definitely something to think about for sure, i trully do hope they eventually do something if not this to prevent mega mix packs though. 🙏

[faint folio]

my point is that I honestly do not see how this system that you propose would penalize mixpackers more that players who play realistically. As I previously described, the penalties of mixpacking really dont impact the mixpackers that much in accomplishing their goal. and, on top of that, there are a good handful of situations where the mixpacking penalty would affect players who werent mixpacking at all. If the point is to prevent/punish mixpacking, then the mechanic needs to at the very least do that, and ideally not punish players who are not legitimately mixpacking. Moreover, a mechanic that has more exceptions and loopholes than swiss cheese probably needs proper revision, rather than adding another loophole to allow nesting grounds to work properly.

And to be honest, if the issue with mixpacking is that people make large unbalanced/overpowered groups and then run around KOSing everything they see... then if a mixpack decides to just hang and make babies rather than murdering everything, I feel like they should be encouraged to do that, not lock that gameplay away from them.

[cedar quartz]

It’s game…

[formal notch]

Thats what I'm sayin LOL

[faint folio]

To be entirely clear-- I DO want mixpacking, megapacking, and extreme KOS to get curbed by mechanics. I would happily support a mechanic that addresses it. But I do not think the mechanic that was suggested fulfills this goal, which is why I am against the stress mechanic as stated in the original suggestion and the revised version that was posted in this chat.

[urban flax]

Against mixpacking I think a scent icon like the megapack scent would be fine
But the problem is, it's hard for a game to tell the difference between a long hunt and mixpacking

[uneven mist]

@thick comet about the NV

[thick comet]

That's bullcrap. Probably gonna stay back from the isle for a while

[barren zephyr]

so games dont have to be realistic lol? go play pot then or bob , u have these as whatever, isle focuses on realism more

[urban flax]

The Isle doesn't focus on realism either

[barren zephyr]

it focuses more than other games

[urban flax]

Realistic graphics doesn't mean the game is aiming for realism
It's a sci-fi game

[barren zephyr]

i play isle cus its the closest to realistic

just like many others

hope that when isle goes too far in the other way there will be another game

[jagged jewel]

it's not realistic, it jsut has realistic graphics

there's other games that try to be way more realistic

[barren zephyr]

u can nest, u have a diet lol

[jagged jewel]

yeah, and there's dinosaurs living in modern times

and eurasian boars on a tropical island

[barren zephyr]

the isle is closest to realistic is what im saying

[jagged jewel]

^

[barren zephyr]

like

[jagged jewel]

but that is fair ig

[barren zephyr]

tell me a good dino game more realistic than isle that is good

[jagged jewel]

saurian

[urban flax]

There aren't many good dino games at all...

[jagged jewel]

^

it's not really a big genre

[barren zephyr]

4
playing an hour ago

[jagged jewel]

what

[barren zephyr]

4 players play that rn

[jagged jewel]

and???

[barren zephyr]

its a dead game?

[jagged jewel]

it's still realistic lmao

[barren zephyr]

doesnt matter lol, its dead

[jagged jewel]

since when were we talking about how populated it is

[barren zephyr]

well i care if the game has players lol, cus i like open world multiplayer

[jagged jewel]

saurian is a well made realistic game, it has flaws, much like all of the other games in the genre, mostly because the dev team is working part time

[jagged jewel]

saurian isn't multiplayer

[barren zephyr]

then thats why i dont play that

and i play isle

since its the only good game with people and closest to realistic

[jagged jewel]

true

not true

[barren zephyr]

what is ur problem mate?

like what u trynna prove

[jagged jewel]

I have no problem, i'm just saying that the isle isn't the most realistic game

Not trying to prove anything

[barren zephyr]

i didnt say most realistic

i say closest to it that is good

[jagged jewel]

You said it was the closest to being realistic, which implies that it's the most realistic

[barren zephyr]

closest is not the same as most

[jagged jewel]

if it's the closest one out of the genre, it's the most realistic out of the genre

[barren zephyr]

its closest GOOD GAME to realism that also has people

[jagged jewel]

thats better

[barren zephyr]

thats what ive been saying

[novel cosmos]

Monster hunter

[jagged jewel]

poorly worded tbf, mb

[jagged jewel]

what

[novel cosmos]

Dino game

[jagged jewel]

monster hunter is a dino game?

[barren zephyr]

happens

[novel cosmos]

Yes

[jagged jewel]

what dinosaurs does it have?

[novel cosmos]

Trex aka anjanath

It has stegos ive killed for meat

Raptors

[jagged jewel]

i don't think anjanath is a t rex

[barren zephyr]

can u play as a dino tho

[jagged jewel]

it just resembles one

[novel cosmos]

Why would i want to play a dino in a dino game

[jagged jewel]

bruh

[barren zephyr]

lol

why are u even here

[novel cosmos]

You wanted to know a better game so i gave you one

[jagged jewel]

based ngl

[urban flax]

I can confirm, Monster Hunter is a dino game

Anjanath is as much a rex as Isle Utah is a Utah

[novel cosmos]

Truth at least anjnath can't teleport

[jagged jewel]

valid

[formal notch]

If you were following the discussion you'd understand, but I do enjoy the realism of the game so I'll keep playing thanks.

There are a few games similar to isle that can compete but most will agree, due to graphics, the isle is definitely up there

It's definitely the best I've played so far

[barren zephyr]

graphics, animations....the way u attack etc, i dont think there s anyone that likes isle 100% but it has a little of everything thats why everyone is playing it

[formal notch]

Yeah I agree @barren zephyr
That's why I do prefer the isle, both versions for that matter but you're right

[jagged jewel]

Im gonna be completely honest w you, the way the dinos attack is probably the least realistic thing

Everything else is pretty good tho

[jagged jewel]

The most realistic attack is the pachy alt swing

and ofc the stego swing

Apart from that its just kinda not realistic, for good reasons ofc (too complex to make combat realistic

[hasty dagger]

I don’t really care? It’s not a scientific simulator lol

[barren zephyr]

We also dont need rules on officials, go play unofficial with rules

[hasty dagger]

I mean I just disagree, sorry

[zealous stone]

Officials don't need established rules with people moderating them, the game just needs to be designed in a way where unwanted behavior isn't beneficial.

[dreamy wharf]

@marsh dome I appreciate the bumps, I'm pretty sure the big man himself has already seen it.

[faint folio]

@supple gale They are working on a new map, so maybe some of your concerns will be addressed.

However, the reason they do not have isolated water sources like lakes is in fact because the crocodiles need to eat, too. If they had a water source cut off from the river system, everyone would drink there, and crocodiles would not be able to find food (this is from what I heard the reason that they removed the water from trash pit/oasis)

[urban flax]

Also realistically a lake always has to be linked with a river somewhere

[faint folio]

Also, they're working on mechanics because they're important to making the game about survival, and not just dino pvp slugfest. People are being worked on because the game was supposed to play like Jurassic park where the humans need to escape from deadly predators running around (horror survival). And lastly, they are working on new dinos-- 4 in fact, according to the recent dev blog

[faint folio]

Exactly. I understand it sucks to be eaten by crocodiles (I've had it happen too), but that's why shallow sections exist, and why bushes at the waters edge exist, and why rocks in the water exist. And sometimes, the croc is just going to win, and that's okay too-- it's another person playing who deserves to get some action occasionally too lol

@silent obsidian The night is there because it's a horror survival game -- the night is dark and full of terrors, as they say. It allows some different playstyles based on reduced visibility, and honestly? It gives carnivores a better chance to catch food... If they can find it. It's kind of the point to reduce visibility, even though it does mean people will log out rather than lose their dinos

[zealous stone]

Honestly when you actually play Deino you realize just how many shallow spots in rivers there are that complicate hunting larger prey.

[silent obsidian]

A horror game? Well, when I installed the game where there are dinosaurs, I really didn't expect to play a horror game, but hey, in that case, I would probably want to change the genre on steam. And to say that it gives you a better chance to catch something, sorry, but when you can see 20 meters in front of you instead of dozens of meters, it really doesn't increase your chances of hunting.

[snow meadow]

@primal imp I strongly suggest checking out some of the community servers with rules. It's really fun to play semi realism sometimes and evrima community servers need more players.

[snow meadow]

Animals are supposed to be able to see in the dark. It should be pitch black for humans without NV goggles or something, not for predatory dinosaurs

[faint folio]

SOME animals are able to see in the dark. most diurnal animals have crappy night vision. nocturnal animals are the ones that are supposed to be able to see in the the dark. currently, we dont really have any nocturnal predatory dinosaurs

[snow meadow]

So half of the time the game should just be unplayable for a large amount of people?

[faint folio]

its not unplayable. I regularly play through nights just fine. is it harder? certainly. does the night vision need revision? definitely. Is it at least somewhat functional? absolutely. is it so bad that the nights need to be entirely scrapped? absolutely NOT.

[zealous stone]

To be honest now that I think about, it does look a little like asteroids

[snow meadow]

Have you been paying attention? Whether you can play or not doesn't matter when a huge chunk of your player base can not

Just because YOU as an invidual can do something doesn't mean it's what's best for the game and right now NV as it is is not anywhere near good for the game or the players

When a feature in your game is making people quit and or get physically ill then yes the entire thing should be scrapped

And the cherry on top of that cake is that it also just looks awful

[faint folio]

and they are working on it. they can't exactly pull an update out of thin air. It takes time to change things. I'm sorry that some people cannot play right now, but they are aware and trying to fix it, so continuing to complain is not going to resolve anything. There are a few games that I am not playing atm because I am waiting on an update to fix certain mechanics, but I am not beating a dead horse over it

[snow meadow]

They should remove it right now until it's ready.

Its a simple easy switch to make all servers daylight for the short term

[silent obsidian]

if it doesn't rumble, you won't change anything, so don't be surprised that people rumble

[snow meadow]

@modest crystal no real opinion on cannibalism but as a small deino if two or more big deinos are coming I usually run up onto land until I know their intentions. You're actually decently fast as a baby deino and they won't catch you

[modest crystal]

As an adult though you've got nothing. You're dead pretty much 100%.

[snow meadow]

Yeah that does always suck when 12 deinos just take you out lol

This is why I rarely play on official though

[modest crystal]

theres no counterplay, its just RNG of if you run into a group of deinos.

[snow meadow]

Part of it is the map I think

Basically just a highway of death for deino. It'll happen eventually

[modest crystal]

Personally I think alot of the map was better back in update 3. They've made some good additions. The old south pocketpool area was better than what they replaced it with

[snow meadow]

Not enough hunting opportunities for big deinos and just swimming up and down the same river over and over again

[modest crystal]

Exactly, I just don't see how thats fun

unless you don't log in until all your friends are ready to form a deathball of deinos.

[faint folio]

i'll be honest, I partially agree. but, at the same time, I can see why they haven't. obviously none of their QA team or stress testers had issues with it. this is clearly because those teams are a small minority of the player base, and none in those teams happened to have photosensitivity. They found out that it could cause issues because of players in the live game who were having headaches, etc. to some extent, i kind of think they left it in to try to get a feel from the people who actually have the issues on how to fix it, and just straight up removing it is not going to help them figure out an appropriate fix. moreover, you're active in the discord-- i've seen you comment frequently. this has been a highly publicized known issue for quite some time now. I'm sorry that your friend had an adverse reaction to it, but they should not have played if they knew they had photosensitivity issues, and even if they hadn't, they should have stopped playing when they started to be affected by it.

[snow meadow]

I think deino will be funner on their planned smaller map imo

I've always wanted to just take over a pond or lake as a deino and live my croc life

[modest crystal]

Yeah, theres way too much map to travel to find food. Dinos have too many options of where to drink. Needs condensing down, would maybe help with the optimisation too.

[snow meadow]

I'm probably the most excited for new map. I hate the current one

Too big and too empty. Not enough good pvp

[faint folio]

i think that is one sentiment most players share lol

[modest crystal]

Is there actually going to be one? confirmed?

[snow meadow]

Its in their road map

[icy lion]

Yes, Gateway

Not sure when they plan to implement it

[snow meadow]

I believe some screenshots have been shared. It's less jungley

[modest crystal]

before I have Grandchildren? haha

ah nice, i'll check it out

was unaware

[snow meadow]

It doesn't make me sick either but I lose my bearings constantly, die cause I can't see and fall off things, it is a bit eye straining as well and overall the aesthetic looks terrible to me. But more importantly people I play with are quitting over it so it's a pretty big issue for me.

[faint folio]

@modest crystal yeah not a huge fan of cannibalism for deinos. though... they kind of have to atm-- they're the only dino that can always reach and attack deinos because they're the only aquatic. hopefully their diet changes once sucho/spino/bary are added

[modest crystal]

Yeah i'm sure in time it'll get better with a fuller roster. Idk why they don't balance things around what we have now though, instead of what we'll have in 3 years.

[snow meadow]

I find deino cannibalism less likely than carno cannibalism in my play throughs

I think it's cause people don't wanna deal with healing after fighting big deinos. And is generally seen as a dick move on the servers I play on. It's probably really bad on official though

[jovial hazel]

Deino being cannibals in The Isle isn't just because of realism.. it was added because deinos easily become a plague on servers, they literally have no threat, they can just hide in the water and be invulnerable from everything.

[snow meadow]

Yeah I'm a deino main and tbh cannibalism has to be a thing

I usually cannibalize around 50% hunger

[faint folio]

yeah, it does need work. they need to highlight objects that have less texture (rocks, logs, water) more so you can actually clearly see the cliffs. as is it is really quite easy to run up on a cliff without realizing because there's not a clear distinction between void and rock. i find it okay for navigation typically, but that may be an individual thing. I really hope they make the white lines a little less strongly contrasting to make it easier on the eyes and help make it more attractive... it may be functional, but i'm not taking glamor shots with night vision active lol

[zealous stone]

Crocodilians do tend to eat smaller members of their species, though they don't gang up on equal sized specimens.

[snow meadow]

I think it needs to he reworked completely. I think they should make night have a blue light overlay instead of black shading.

Whatever it is is very triggering to people with certain disorders or motion sickness. I've never had those problems personally but something about this NV is triggering it so I don't see why the smart thing to do wouldn't be to temporarily disable it. Is it a pride thing? Laziness? They don't believe people are sick over it? I dunno. I don't get it.

[jovial hazel]

I'm saying realism doesn't matter. I'm not arguing realism.

Cannibalism is needed, or the deino populations get out of hand. From a purely gameplay balance perspective.

[faint folio]

possibly pride and a desire to prevent gamma usage. the current night vision does that... though to some extent I think as long as players cant see, they'll find work arounds so that they can.

[icy lion]

The team's plan for night vision is detailed in the most recent dev blog #announcements message

[snow meadow]

The development philosophy should be to create something fun and engaging not something so terrible people feel they either need to quit or cheat to get around it

[faint folio]

I canni around 20 hunger or lower personally. I dont like it, but when there's 8-9 big crocs at shallows... nobody is eating enough, and its kinda ridiculous

[snow meadow]

If you want the horror element to be high at night add things like weather effects, fog, dynamic blue lighting, heart beats, added forest sounds. Not being able to see isn't scary cause a black screen isn't scary.

[faint folio]

from 50 or lower, ill start swimming around, trying less popular areas. once im below 20%, im looking for a lone croc to snackrifice. that sounds bad lol, but so is starving

[snow meadow]

That is better than most people. Most will kill you just cause they're bored

[faint folio]

oh i agree completely. I actually posted feedback saying as much. but the OP i was responding to legit wanted night time to be completely removed from the sound of it

[snow meadow]

I'd be happy if they removed it rn tbh

Night time does have some benefits for growing dinos and hiding but the cons far outweigh the pros rn imo

[faint folio]

honestly i would be happy if they adjusted day/night cycle time so we didn't have to replay 6h of night every 6 hours due to server restart

[snow meadow]

I don't play on official but the server I'm playing on has a shorter night time and yet it still feels way longer than day and day feels like 5 mins before it's night again for me

I think that's just cause I hate it so much though

[faint folio]

yeah i think that's because most people just hunker down to wait it out, whereas they're active during the day

[snow meadow]

I've had a lot of people just straight up log off during night which sucks as a social dino

[faint folio]

i try to keep moving and doing things at night... i'm familiar enough with the route I use as herbis to be fine moving at night, and as a carni you almost need to run around looking for food at night anyways. if I stay put, its because I am gonna hang out anyways to grow, etc

[snow meadow]

I like to actively play as well, especially if I'm grown up

[faint folio]

yeah I notice that too. the nights are very quiet these days

[snow meadow]

But I can't tell you how many times I've killed myself because of NV since its been implemented

And I rage quit every time and then come back lol

But it's not a good feeling and my friends are quitting now and overall moral is low and I don't like it

[faint folio]

though yesterday me and my friend got ambushed by 4 carnos near 2 rock pass during the night.... it was a very well played ambush using night. i can't be too upset by good planning, even if i die lol. Hope they at least needed our tenos for food rather than deleting 3 hours of progress for 5 minutes of entertainment

[snow meadow]

I've had good NV fights too although I dunno how much that had to do with nv

[faint folio]

they were using it to their advantage so we couldn't see them charging until it was too late to move

[snow meadow]

Also I like to make videos for my tik tok of funny or cool things that happen and NV ruins it 😒

But that's more a personal grudge

[faint folio]

anyways lol... it was a good fight. we were mincemeat

tbh i kind of wish moon cycles were added with the night vision-- full moon you can see without night vision, half moon or so you can kinda see, but need to supplement with nv to see in shadows, and during new moon we have nights as dark as we currently do

that way it isnt exclusively punishing the moment you see the sun set

[zealous stone]

I was stating the bases in reality in which Deinosuchus cannibalism in the Isle came from, not trying to argue about it.

[uneven mist]

@left pewter How is it unrealistic?

[lapis swallow]

Its like grabbing a toddler for a deino

[zealous stone]

An adult Carno is less than a fourth the mass of an adult Deino. Pretty sure crocs can drag things a lot bigger than that relative to them.

[urban flax]

Square cube rule moment
But yeah I think a deino could still lift 2 tons without problem

[zealous stone]

Didn't really think of the square cube law, but even then I'd imagine an 8 ton gator would be capable of drowning something quite a bit larger than 1.8 tons

[faint folio]

@left pewterits incredibly unfair, but the issue isnt with being able to pick up dinos less that 1/4 your weight (which, imo, is fine). the issue is there really is no way to counter lunge as a mechanic, other than to hope the croc didnt plan their stam usage correctly and they run out, or to never drink unless the water is so shallow a croc can't sneak up.

crocs REALLY need a way so that they aren't nearly guaranteed a kill with one click

especially given how much base health they have

[zealous stone]

I keep saying add a tug of war mechanic, though to be honest that wouldn't really save a Carno

Maybe alt-LMB while grabbed and some equivalent of bucking

alt-LMBing still most likely wouldn't save a Carno

[faint folio]

yea a tug of war mechanic would at least be more interesting

[urban flax]

Problem is, deino really has very few opportunities to ambush players
So giving them a chance to fight back even lowers it's ability to get food

[zealous stone]

I agree, but I think that should be fixed by giving Deinos more opportunities

[urban flax]

I've only been snatched by a deino twice since it got released
First time was just after it was released, fell into water as a ptera while trying to fight off 2 adults
Second time was as a baby utah, I killed a hypsi and a baby dryo too close to a river

[zealous stone]

More opportunities and higher chance of failure would be more interesting than rarely ever getting a shot but basically always succeeding unless the water is too shallow.

[urban flax]

true

But how do you create more opportunities to get prey for deino ?

[zealous stone]

Map design

Smaller map, bigger rivers, more cliffs by rivers to prevent dinos from drinking or crossing in certain areas to funnel them elsewhere.

[urban flax]

So the map becomes even more deino-centered than it already is

[zealous stone]

What do you mean?

[urban flax]

The map has already been redone specifically to allow deinos to get prey and became very annoying to traverse because of that

[zealous stone]

Probably would be best to wait for Deino to get some competition then

Its the entire playable aquatic ecosystem at the moment

[urban flax]

Maybe
Hopefully the new map will be better for both land and water dinos
There's a lake at least

[zealous stone]

I honestly wouldn't mind if they added in another semi-aquatic with its whole purpose being to hunt juvi deinos

Probably would be for the better

[urban flax]

Austro and bary could both do it

[zealous stone]

Only problem is getting people to play those in enough numbers when they could just play Deino

[urban flax]

Well I'm way more attracted to austro or bary than I am to deino

[zealous stone]

One problem with using non-apexes to control apex populations is that people are most likely just going to pick the apex anyway, so they'll just overwhelm the population control players with shear numbers.

[urban flax]

We can't really base our judgement off what happened in legacy on this
In legacy, apexes were just plain better than other playables, but it's not the case in evrima, where smalls usually have a lot of special abilities

[zealous stone]

They're better at combat, which lets be real, combat is far more interesting than running away, and thus more players are going to be attracted to the roster members that are better at it. Besides, a lot of the future apexes tend to be some of the most popular dinos there are, like Rex and Spino, who are certainly going to be favored by a lot of people off the bat.

[urban flax]

There was nothing to do apart from combat in legacy
Well there still is not much to do in evrima, but we've got a little more at least
And no playable is invalidated just because a bigger thing saw it

[zealous stone]

It doesn't matter if its not invalidated, if its only counterplay is running, that automatically makes it less appealing

[urban flax]

But at least there's something you can do

[zealous stone]

But why do that when you can pick another dino that can actually fight the thing giving you issues?

[urban flax]

Because it boils down to a matter of preference
And you'd be surprised at how much people prefer to play the nimble thing that runs away instead of the lumbering giant
Definitely not a majority, but still a good portion of people

[zealous stone]

Problem with that is it needs to be the majority who doesn't want to play the lumbering giant, because all those people are going to pick apexes once we get more options there

[urban flax]

Well honestly you'll never get enough people to play small herbivores to have an ecosystem that works based only off players
That's what dino AI will be for (I hope so at least)

[zealous stone]

That is true, heck the server sizes aren't even large enough to have a realistic ecosystem that could support massive apex predators in decent numbers

[urban flax]

If we wanted a realistic ecosystem with the current numbers there'd be like 1 utah and 5 tenos, the rest would be hypsis and dryos

[zealous stone]

Yeah, which would be very boring

But having too many AI means that apex carnivores could just afk grow around spawns and live entirely off AI until they reach a size where they are relatively safe from everything that isn't another apex or just below that

[urban flax]

Unless AI is hard to catch

[faint folio]

ill be honest. if you provide non-deinos a chance that they can survive a deino encounter (instead of basically guaranteeing that they cant), and make the shallow/safe crossing points few and far in between, you will get players to make the decision that it is better to risk it and try the direct route rather than taking a massive PITA detour. The only reason people take such measures to avoid deino right now is because if you get snatched you are basically dead, and you are stuck watching yourself slowly drown for the next 60 s

[zealous stone]

I doubt they'll ever make it as hard to catch as players.

[faint folio]

unless the AI is aggressive and dangerous, especially large AI that gives good food

[zealous stone]

Also this makes it harder for non-apexes as well

[faint folio]

well... it IS survival lol

[zealous stone]

Yes, but it doesn't make playing apex harder than playing something smaller

Which it needs to for population control

[faint folio]

though, it really depends. if for example they add AI stegos, it makes sense for them to be passive/friendly to other stegos unless attacked, and hostile to carnivores

[urban flax]

That's why I'm an advocate for having different species as AI than players
That way they can have better stats to compensate for being less smart

[zealous stone]

Better than nothing, but again, it doesn't hit apexes any different from smaller carnivores

You could try making smaller NPCs easier to kill for similar sized creatures than larger NPCs are for players their size.

An obvious solution is just not have enough AI to sustain apexes, only mid tier carnivores and below, but I'd imagine you get too many complaints of starvation from apex players

[storm barn]

@cedar geyser I am not 100% sure, but if i remember correctly Punch did mention that in the future it might be possible to have the option to change the model of the dinos such as adding feathers etc.

[faint folio]

@cedar geyser suggestion to slightly modify your suggestion-- make feathering tied to the Pattern feature already available in skincrafting

[formal notch]

If it were to happen they could maybe do something like Days of Dragons where puddles are only drinkable by a certain age/size like juvis and if in the isle, maybe hypsy

[faint folio]

that may work out-- in reality, large crocs that are water bound arent really interested in very small dinos anyways-- why put in the effort when they give 1% food?

[formal notch]

I'm sure it'll be different once there's more dino AI too but this is very agreeable

[formal notch]

Real crocs eat each other if they're hungry or even for competition, like feet and even breaking off jaws.

[formal notch]

I think most people do that out of spite :c

Then again they're only taking like 10 minutes of play time compared to a possible 6 hour grow being yeeted by other cannis

[proud coral]

I still don't get why people get surprised when they get cannibalized as something known to cannibalize

[formal notch]

Stubbornness

As humans, people definitely see it as unfair or unjust but if its realism they want, they've been given it and are still complaining... I'm no absolute beast at the game and sometimes it may even come down to skill issue or simply inexperience. Could even be that Aussie ping

[dreamy wharf]

@proven river I appreciate the bump but I think the big reds have already seen it.

[proven river]

Lol k

Man that ping gave me a heart attack XD

[novel cosmos]

@formal notch Most crocs do not eat each other irl????????????????????

most attack each other for territorial reason and most crocs still put up with each other even in close spaces

otherwise parks would house as many crocs together in a single pin as they already do

and i dont like the argument saying if something is hungry enough it would eat its own kind

ive had a pleco fish start eating another much larger fish just because it had an infection on the side of it so it knew it was probably potential food

almost any animal is capable of eating other animals doesnt make it common

[jade brook]

most croc in parks are already well fed, i don't think that it supports your claim. Your isolated pleco experience doesn't weight much either. I have an isolated experience too: had a cat who ate the weakest of her babies, the neighbour's cat ate the rest.

it's not because it's not the rule that it is not common

[faint folio]

Tbh the main reason deino has deino on its diet isn't anything to do with realism itself. It's entirely to do with balance-- you have an 8 ton high HP monster able to tank pretty much everything except stegos, and if things get too hot they swim away. Deino is really the only thing that can reliably fight/kill other deino

[novel cosmos]

no a lot of rescue gators are not usually well fed, and typically still get housed with 10 other crocs

the only rule of thumb is dont put a much larger crocs together because the larger the croc the more territorial they can be

in the wilderness territorial usually isnt as big of a problem because they have a lot more room and have no need to attack each other they just move away from each other

now ofc not all live in large ecosystems and this is where usually you see territorial attacks

and if somethings intention is to attack for territorial reasons its not really cannibalism unless it actively hunts others of its own kind

like i said because something happens doesnt make it common

and no i dont care about the game i dont like that people are spreading random things about crocs

people can kill each other all they want in the game of the same species

and your cat example is literally nothing to do with the subject at all that isnt even close to anything

my pleco example is just saying something that happens doesnt make it common

[jade brook]

what? I gave a common exemple of cannibalism, and it has nothing to do with the subject? as opposite to your pleco exemple?
And yes, when things happens enough times it is at one point considered common.
I'm no expert on crocs. But accross all animals, yes cannibalism is a common thing in nature.

[novel cosmos]

no the point is its not just cannibalism, the cats eat the babies for another reason besides to just eat for food, it is not common you dont look at a cat and think that one will instantly kill my other cat

i never made the argument cannibalism doesnt happen

i said just because it happens doesnt mean its a common thing

[jade brook]

i never said it was just for food, there are plenty of reason for cannibalism and as i said, it's not because it's not the majority of cases all the time, that it is not common.

[novel cosmos]

so you agree with me im glad

[jade brook]

well at this point it's just what you consider what common means

[novel cosmos]

something that happens that is not common thank you

[jade brook]

?

[novel cosmos]

im not going to discuss what common means

[jade brook]

i think you misread what i said...

[novel cosmos]

i was talking about crocs

yes it happens for various reason among many different animals in the animal kingdom

that means its a common thing that happens in the animal kingdom for different reasons

but most of these occurrences are uncommon within those species

glad we could clear this up

and no idea on 1500 species how uncommon some may be but idc some might be super common not my point my point was crocs

[jade brook]

"and i dont like the argument saying if something is hungry enough it would eat its own kind
ive had a pleco fish start eating another much larger fish just because it had an infection on the side of it so it knew it was probably potential food
almost any animal is capable of eating other animals doesnt make it common"
That sounds like being about not just croc but ok

[novel cosmos]

okay yeah i know youre trolling now

[jade brook]

no... and i don't see why you are saying this now, but be free to think that way. I'd like to know why though

i genuinely don't mean to offend, you don't have to take what i say defensively

[formal notch]

In some croc parks in the place I live, Australia, they have crocs that are missing limbs due to territorial behaviour and competition for food during live shows. This again is not an example of "in-the-wild realism" and more rather an example of what they are indeed capable of

[hoary dawn]

even if it weren't common irl, this is a pvp game

[formal notch]

Yeah exactly

It's pvp

And canni diet seems to exist due to food being difficult to find or hunt for some species which just so happens to tie into real nature

It could be subject to change but we never know

It's not our game

[zealous violet]

Crocs actually do eat each other irl but its mostly the smaller ones falling victim to much larger ones and as Ravioli stated territorial behavior plays a part as well. However, the devs are still reaching for a survival/horror game and not so much a PvP game, even though thats what it kinda is at the moment.

[supple gale]

I'm really glad they decided to make a new map.
I'm not talking about big springs like the pit, but small puddles where predators and herbivores could even fight for a piece of that water. Maybe I'm really wrong, but so far the water on this map as I think creates a hopelessness, where you have no choice, or you die from a crocodile, or you change your underpants every time you come to the water XDD

[thorny crag]

Once NV changes for the better the complaints about it will stop, easy as that

[barren zephyr]

I will say that it is very easy currently to jump on a complaining train and just saying stuff without having to invest time into an issue and properly describing it.

Its the feedback channels and they way how they‘re lacking in structure that is the issue. If players would be forced to follow a certain format in order to describe their issue which results in feedback, things like witch hunts or people talking outta their asses wouldn‘t be happening.

I can see why Filipe thinks you can‘t trust the people who give feedback. Just a poor job of the community manager who is responsible to ensure people are forced to give constructive feedback/criticism. Which is not currently the case since its easy to just type a message in the feedback channels regardless if the person put any time into describing their problem that is being discussed.

[echo tiger]

I mean if new NV was any good their wouldn't be any complaints about it

[barren zephyr]

Lol its more complicated than just saying if it were good there wouldn‘t be any complaints

[faint folio]

The problem is, what is "good" is entirely subjective. Look at the Utah as an extremely easy example. Community opinion is 50/50 on whether the Utah is correctly balanced or OP

And this goes for every mechanic and playable-- if you change anything, people that thought it was fine previously will complain

[barren zephyr]

Its always been an issue of who are they gonna listen to. I know they have their vision with NV and stuff but currently I‘m not digging the military night goggles. I like other suggestions where the middle of your vision is where you can see and stuff around it is dark.

[faint folio]

Pachy is another example. People complained that pachy was too overpowered because it did a ton of damage in addition to fracture (reducing ability, visibility, and movement speed). So they nerfed pachy, and now people complain that it needs more damage to be viable

[barren zephyr]

If the devs would do an improvement of legacy NV then that would be cool. I‘m also down with just a NV that makes you see stuff at night as if you would have moon light.

[faint folio]

So, it's very much a lot more complicated than simply "if it was good nobody would complain"

[barren zephyr]

Ye thats obvious

I didn‘t get headache from current NV its just that its still very dark and the overall concept of dinos, even tho it might fit the lore that its humans inside dino suits, having military NV is a bad approach from dmIV IMO.

They wanted to be different from legacy NV and try out cool stuff instead got feedback from people suffering from health issues lmao. Still wondering why at QA or any of stress testers did not point that out. Maybe they did but devs didn‘t wanna listen.

[covert nest]

@echo tiger As I said earlier. NV was added just so we could see a little in the dark, because only on update 6.5 it will be better because it will have improvements since trodon will be added. That is why there is no reason for people to complain about NV since it will have improvements in the future.

[barren zephyr]

Disagree with you on that

[covert nest]

Tell me why

[barren zephyr]

When NV was given to the ST, they told the devs multiple times how bad it was

And they still pushed it

Even after a couple new iterations no one said anything about how it might give people health issues

Even if it was only added so we can see at dark and the plan was to improve it in U 6.5, why release it in the first place? They made the night intentionally darker in order to prepare us for NV.

[covert nest]

You literally responded at your question "why release it in the first place?" on the beginning of your message

[echo tiger]

But thats what im saying as well, why release mechanics that are woefully incomplete without the roster to support those mechanics

[barren zephyr]

I‘m a firm believer of the difference between complaining and giving constructive criticism. I will not argue with you about the fact that people only complain that NV is bad without any suggestion on why it is bad.

[echo tiger]

it makes sense that cerato is going to come with gore since that's it's big thing, being able to eat putrified corpses

but with this addition, which dinos can realistically benefit from NV in its current state? it's a slog to play in and harkens back to the legacy nights which were unfun and just boring

Cause none of the current roster can really exploit night time, its just too dark and that incombination with eye massacre its just not very fun

[barren zephyr]

I would be fine with a NV that doesn‘t cause me to fck up my eyes lol

[covert nest]

me either

[barren zephyr]

The aspect of dinos of the current roster exploiting the night is not a priority right now, but giving us a solid NV

[covert nest]

if they wont give us a solid NV, then the solution would be for the night be a little bit brighter

[barren zephyr]

Ye as it was in earlier updates, where night was still bright and it wasn‘t that difficult to see lol

[chrome grotto]

<@&401466542140817419> dministrator When I start The Isle, I have a black monitor/black screen after the short movie scene and the following error code appears after 120 seconds of waiting: "The UE4-TheIsle game has crashed and will close" and I have also uninstalled and reinstalled The Isle several times. Please help, thank you

[faint folio]

Try in either #🔧-evrima-troubleshooting-🔧 or #🔧-legacy-troubleshooting-🔧 depending on which version of the game you're trying to launch

[tardy talon]

Eh, this specifically was more of an example of the devs being too harsh with the nerf. That’s one of the issues with balance changes being infrequent- we see a lot of sweeping changes rather than the tweaking that is needed.

[placid oriole]

i would like to say that yeah, NV will improve in the next update, but if its currently triggering epileptic users and bringing on migraines, it needs to be fixed sooner. updates are almost always released after the release estimation date. wasnt it said that update 5 or 5.5 was only going to take a few months when it took almost an entire year? that's why people are hounding that NV sucks. yes, seeing the constant comments about it in feedback gets repetitive, but it's potentially dangerous to a number of players.

[barren zephyr]

The avg amount of time it takes for next updates is 6 months lol. Thats not a good sign.

So I wouldn‘t be surprised if a new NV would take another half year.

[uneven mist]

How is acro and Alberto similar lol

[green spade]

Hello can someone help me to remove a permanent ban from the server of Dry Reef? I can not talk to the owner of Dry Reef 😦

[lapis swallow]

This is the isle official discord, not a server discord

[snow meadow]

When a feature in your game is causing people to not only quit the game because it is that bad of a feature but also making people physically sick you should remove it immediately and keep it out until it's actually ready. This should have already been hot fixed and reverted.

[ashen wasp]

No-neck niche

[uneven mist]

https://tenor.com/view/omni-man-vs-invincible-battle-of-gif-26305149

[thorny crag]

This.

[austere tulip]

how much damage does a pachy's secondary attack do?

[burnt bone]

60, less than utah's bite of 65. You generally are able to hit 2 more alts (180 dmg) or a ram (160) when you hit an alt, so that means you need to knock down a utah 3-4 times to kill it.

Also, @trim mauve Pachy's alt and ram already have prio over pounce. But I do agree it needs a damage buff, heavily preferably on alt/headslam instead of ram

[trim mauve]

o it does

I thought that got changed with the pounce buff

[jovial hazel]

It does, but it can get a little wonky. I still feel like pachy has the advantage over utah still. You just need to knock them down twice instead of the one time like before.

[echo tiger]

Which thats fine imo

it just needs a bleed resist buff

[jovial hazel]

If they can get the pounce back to where it requires a little bit of skill to land, it will be much better. That along with people learning how to minimize how much they bleed and using buck, will make a big difference. Right now a pachy shouldn't have too much problem with a utah 1v1, though.

[dusk meteor]

actually if you hit the extra two you'll kill a utah in just two knock downs.
pachy and utah are fine. If anything, pachy comes out on top in a 1 v 1. It'svery difficult to outmaneuver a pachy as a utah since it's the only playable with priority over the pounce atm. 2v1 scenarios are much more interesting and I've seen it swing both ways.

it's not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. If anything, the legacy's way of having bleed not kill you when you sit would probably be a better solution overall since half the problem is that even if a pachy wins it is rather likely to bleed out if it got hit.

And honestly this isn't limited to pachy either, it's a problem related to anything with a bloodpool that feels considerably weaker than its raw health like carno. It's not exactly realistic to have blood act that way but it is more fun and fitting for game to have inbuilt ways to let the winner stay alive.

[surreal sedge]

@worldly ginkgo realism has never mattered to this game more than a close enough lol, theres even some past lore hints with the magnas that the isles dinosaurs actually contain quite literally no dinosaur dna and are just masterful imitations cobbled together from modern animal and possibly even artificial dna.

[jovial hazel]

I agree. Pachy vs Utah is good. The problem with bleed right now is that too many people don't really understand how it works, that there's many different things that attribute to how much you bleed. I would highly suggest looking up DBear's video on bleed on youtube if you are interested.

[burnt bone]

That is literally just wrong. alt does 60 damage, if you hit all 3 on body its 180 damage (40% of utah's hp), which means you need 3. not to mention, if you hit the legs or tail multiple times, you need 4 knockdowns. The only way you can kill a utah in 2 knockdowns is if you only use alt attacks and hit 3 headshots and the rest are bodyshots, hit 2 alt headshots into 2 charged ram headshots, or hit 3 bodyshot rams and a headshot ram. None of these very feasible for practically any player.

Meanwhile, it only takes about 2 pounces to kill a pachy on average. Maybe a third or a few bites if it doesnt move at all. The first one drops pachy to about 50%, so it basically has no stamina regen, which I would say is on-par or worse than a body fracture. Then it is also forced to basically not move at all, or it lose even more bleed, which is almost as strong as a leg fracture.

So, utah pounce is: easier to hit, deals half pachy's hp, and does essentially 1.5 fractures worth of debuffs.
Meanwhile pachy ram: is decently hard to hit (requiring alt swing to set up in most cases), deals 1/5th of utah's hp (1/3 if you do alt into ram), and gives 1 fracture (most of the time you only get a body fracture anyway)

[jovial hazel]

Eh, I like playing pachy, wouldn't mind if it got buffed I guess. This is also making me realize people don't really know how easy it is to get a leg break on a downed utah. Which is also a good thing, I guess.

[burnt bone]

Its actually decently difficult (hitboxes are wonky and all). Especially depending on the angle you knock them down at.

[jovial hazel]

You can get it just about every single time, if you understand how.

Same with pachy vs pachy.

[barren zephyr]

@tight lantern I like your idea of the mud/muck kick mechanic that could be used for younger deinos.
it would definitely create another layer of under water play but also give younger deinos a chance to escape if they use it correctly or an alternative than running on land

[wheat knot]

@sullen mortar Do you happen to recall what happened just before you got kicked from the server?

[sullen mortar]

i was fighting 2 tenos, i think 1 of the 2 got dcd as well, but the other didnt

[wheat knot]

Any chance you can recall what you or the Tenos did that could of caused it? Maybe an ability or a specific action

[mystic lion]

@faint folio #general-feedback message

i hate the second idea but let me explain why. the growth buff acts as a good incentive but reserving special skins for being nested in sounds terrible to me as someone who loves to design my own skins; that's one of my favorite aspects of the game. and that means people like me would only get to enjoy these cool patterns you described if we're willing to tolerate butt ugly clashing or dull colours just for the unique patterns as is so often the result when being nested in (with the exception of albinism & melanism, ofc). that's why i never let people nest me in on legacy. i feel like cool or rare patterns should be something a player is able to work towards or unlock on their own in some way rather than something they might get from being nested in once in a blue moon, which they will then lose pretty much permanently the moment they die (if they happened, by some miracle, to really like the exact pattern and colours, it's highly unlikely they'd ever be able to repeat it because the pattern would be rare & only achieved when nesting in & they'd likely never get the same exact colours they had with it--not only that, but if they happened to like it, it would just make players even more miserable when dying than they usually are after losing a full grown dino or something).

i think the growth increase would be incentive enough. the biggest problem with nesting right now is just that players have no time for it because they're always starving or they can't manage because they constantly have to move around for their diet unless they're content with a single nutrient or they can't find enough food to feed hatchlings/juvies.

[sullen mortar]

it was night time i was ambushing with a head charge, no ability on their end as i got the jump, hit both dcd immediately after contact, i think the one i hit dead on dcd with me

[faint folio]

But you just explained to yourself a major reason people don't nest-- you want to design your own skin, so you never took eggs on legacy, regardless of buffs you got.

That of course, has a somewhat simple solution-- let players in the egg selection menu see the possible skins/palettes based on the parents, and design their own skin for the baby, just like a random spawn, before sending a request to join the nest. This would work for any colors and patterns present on both parents, and there could be a check box for allowing randomization (eg having a very low chance of getting albino, piebald, etc if neither parent has the pattern)-- allowing you to get either exactly what you pick in the menu or roll for an additional pattern modifier on top of your designed skin.

It's also important to note that the rare patterns-- albinism, piebald, melanism, etc-- count as a pattern that can be passed by parents-- eg a nest with a piebald parent will have piebald (same variation as parent) as a selectable pattern. So, if you want to guarantee a piebald skin, look for nests with piebald parents, etc

The whole point is to encourage nesting, not to force egg rolling until you get lucky with a look you like

[mystic lion]

right. i might be more open to the suggestion if we could have more control over skins when being nested, but i don't think being able to choose colours & patterns from the parents would be incentive enough for me. that's hardly much better. it would give you only two options for each body area, and if you were male, you'd end up with the father's marking colour. just wouldn't be worth it.

now, on the other hand, i would be way more inclined to nest in if nesting in not only allowed you to choose from the colours in the original menu, but also colours/patterns from an extended menu as a perk of being nested in, without being severely limited by the parents' colours.

as for the "look for nests with piebald parents" part, idk how people would do that. there's no global chat, so people would probably have to advertise eggs and include that they have piebald patterns here on the server. but that still wouldn't necessarily guarantee you get a piebald skin because someone with piebald patterns would have to be advertising at the exact time you have free time to play (which is almost reminiscent of people on legacy trying to get lucky playing a sandbox dinosaur, religiously watching the chat for someone advertising).

[barren zephyr]

the idea of having an extended menu as a perk of being nested in where you are able to choose more colors or patterns would be very interesting. I feel as if it would give more of an incentive to want to be nested in order to choose a wider variety. Different patterns that you may not be able to pick on the spawn in screen would also give me more of an incentive other than spawning in a group imo.
the main reason I like being nested is to already have a group established

[wheat knot]

Ay okay! Thanks for answering my questions

[austere tulip]

thanks yo. i think a damage buff would be nice, but maybe introducing stamina damage with some alt attacks would be just as good

[mystic lion]

i agree haha

[dusk meteor]

idk about you but I've been killed in two knockdowns multiple times and I've killed in two knockdowns without meaning to as well - it's not as unfeasible as you think it is. Pachy deserves way more credit. If they end up evening out to 3 pounces/knockdowns each that's kind of fair. People just don't like having something so level because it never feels level if you suck at it.

Pachy isn't exactly an easy playable but 1v1 utah doesn't really have much chance unless the pachy just isn't good. The only thing the pachy has to do 1v1 is catch a utah in the pounce which both saves it from the pounce and results in 1/3rd to 1/2 hp damage to a utah and is very likely do deal at least one other kind of fracture and conveniently puts its head in your direction. Y'all find things to complain about for no reason.

[cyan flame]

"only catch a utah in a pounce", as if that's something you can just do. Considering how utterly easy pounce is to use and do, and with the advantage of speed and agility, you kind of have to try as utah to get caught.

[dusk meteor]

It's very easy to do. Pachy just needs to not move much and face the utah. I'd say 9/10 I've seen a pachy hit a utah it's been catching it in a pounce.

Because you know the utah wants to pounce and you shouldn't be charging it unless you've got cover to hide your approach. It basically comes down to who positioned, adjusted and knows the fight better. 1v1 utahs honestly super suck against pachy because there's no one to distract their attention. You stand a considerable chance in a 2v1, but not a 1v1 and this makes sense.

All this propaganda that pachy are bad makes people not play pachy, which means people can't form groups of pachy which means pachy can't defend itself properly because the community won't invest in it. It's not bad, people just don't play it which makes you exceptionally vulnerable since everyone else pairs up at least.

^ at least that's the state of pachy for official.

If people just buff pachy it'll end up like teno. And teno is fun but it isn't even a challenge anymore when fighting carnos. Raptors? yeah but they're a challenge for most lmao
that's why i think having the "if i sit i won't die frombleed" feature come back will help balance out how powerful bleed is for everyone. Bleed isn't jsut strong against pachy. It's strong against everyone.

[rare fractal]

It literally only takes one bait and the pachy dies. You can charge it, watch it try and alt or ram you, then pounce it, the execution of said pounce is incredibly easy as well it's not a complex maneuver

[cyan flame]

If anything it's very easy to not ever get hit as utah, so no idea how you can think it's easy to catch a pounce, I've rarely if ever seen that happen and only due to the utah just not planning the attack at all. The only playable even safer when it comes to moving around on ground is dryo. I don't know what kind of utahs you've fought, but it's not hard to avoid a ram, almost as easy as it is to avoid a charge. The alt might work, but well, you know the pachy will have to try that, so you can bait it. Considering you can also do point blank pounces at that. If a utah get caught in a pounce, that's far more on the utah being bad than the target being good honestly. And if you want to take positioning and such into account, then the utah should just ambush and it's a done deal pretty much. I don't know what propaganda you're on about, but I never said pachy was terrible or anything like that, just that your idea of "catching" a utah is just, any utah that has half a braincell does not get caught like that really.

[dusk meteor]

pachy's recovery time isn't as bad as utah. I'ts more like a solid second. And this is variable. One pounce death depends on a few things:
Did they buck?
how long was the pounce?
How was the pachy's hunger?
How was their water?
How was their stam?
What's their diet?

So it's stupid to base it off of the 1 pounce death because frankly it's got a lot of variables that aren't strictly related to the balance and more if the payer is maintaining their dino.

[dusk meteor]

I think it's easy because i've seen it as done it but only as a pachy. I struggle to catch pounces as literally anything else. But I've seen it most of the time, so no it's not as bad as you're making it out to be either. Though a utah can isnt a pounce is does require them to literally run right next to you which is more or less the same thing for the pachy hitting it.
So the magnet honestly doesn't matter that much in this matchup. It matters a lot more in teno/carno because you can duke their hits

[rare fractal]

Pachy's recovery is longer if only by a very small amount, it is a second and a half, only being altered or improved by steeper terrain which can interrupt the animation and cause the pachy to recover faster, but pounce's recovery is still shorter regardless.
A single bucked pounce on a perfect diet pachy with moderate food and water, leaving the utah with 20-30% of it's stamina remaining will drop the pachy down to 50% even if they stand still, this is exasperated through baits and additional pressure through bites, a singular pounce won't instantly kill the pachy ofcourse, but they are effectively defeated as you don't even need to get within striking range of the pachy to bleed it out after the fact, on top of that kind of maneuver being comically easy to execute in the first place.

[dusk meteor]

but the frank baseline here is that my experience as a utah fighting pachies and as a pachy fighting utahs does not reflect anything you two say about it. Although I can see where it comes from, I do legitimately think it comes more down to a skill difference than one related to the playable.

Moreover, only addressing the core problem for pachy, which is the bleed damage not the pachy damage, is very bad when this is a problem across the board and therefore you need a solution across the board

[cyan flame]

I'd say the magnet matters in the sense of where a utah can pounce from, even on a pachy, but that's a bit of a different issue. It's more so that the utah has the advantage in the pace, and as such, the pachy is reliant on the utah messing up, or possibly being tricked. Sure, it's not impossible by any means, but I'd put it down more to performance issues than it actually being much of a reliable method. And I'm not sure the bleed is the issue honestly, there's far more problems with buck and magnet pounce than the bleed if you're considering utah.

[dusk meteor]

If you have a single, bucked pounce that's free hits. If a pachy decides to let the utah slip under that situation it was a misplay.

[cyan flame]

And far as I know, people arguing for pachy buff wants the alt to do a bit more damage, I think at least. So it'd be a bit easier to take out utahs, without getting back to the whole "I can murder carnos on my own" pachy. That and people wanting the coconut breaker move to be a combat move as well.

[dusk meteor]

You might be 50% bleeed but at that point you're pretty likely to be deadly. A utah takes a good long while to get up from a buck. Maybe 3 or 4 seconds. You should be getting a leg fracture at that point and then just run it down

then you live lmao

[rare fractal]

What? You can dismount the pachy borderline behind them, they won't get the stun if the alt hits your tail first, so that's not even mechanically possible

[dusk meteor]

Dismount is not buck

you specified buck

[rare fractal]

Are you seriously implying that getting "stun-bucked" is even possible if the utah has a functioning brain?

In what circumstances would a utah EVER get stunned via buck unless it was so unbelievably stupid that it forgot to notice its stam bar

[dusk meteor]

actually its very possible have you seen the chunks bucking takes off utah stam froma pachy? lmao

you'll be at 0 stam within a couple seconds you have to let go immediately.

[rare fractal]

Yes, I play a lot of utah, I'm serious when I say that hasn't happened to me in ages

[rare fractal]

4 seconds

moreso 4.5

Jumping off at the 3 second mark is the scenario I described

Leaving the utah with around 20-30% stam

[dusk meteor]

It hasn't happened to me in ages but that's because we're good
good should be able to avoid that scenario. But this is a balance matchup discussion not a are you good one

anyway i gtg work so

have fun

[rare fractal]

No, there is nearly no skill/timing required in dismounting before getting knocked off, that should not be praised as a skill good players possess, that should be baseline for any utah player, new or otherwise, and the difficulty of doing so is reflected by that, as it's VERY hard to get knocked off a pounce and stunned

[cyan flame]

To be fair, people tend to use the terms very strangely. Like a full pounce = while being bucked, when it should be without buck, and so on. So it's not always easy to know what someone means :p

[cyan flame]

But balance is based on being "good" as it were.

[rare fractal]

But I specified that the utah dismounts at 20-30% ;-;

[dusk meteor]

This isn't entirely true. To know when to dismount means you needs to have experience or at least be taught by someone what to do, when to get off, when you are safe and when you are not. This isn't the baseline, this is what you should aim for with every playable.
And the skill level on official is rather atrocious but you're underselling yourself or expecting too much of middling players.

[dusk meteor]

True, I've seen a bit of that. I would personally at being bucked is when you're bucked off or as they eloquently put it "stun bucked"

As opposed to dismount where you leave on your own volition.

[rare fractal]

Well, I never implied it doesn't require any degree of trial and error, but it makes perfect sense to see your stamina chunking and disengage the ability before you're out of resources, there's very little in the way of timing or practice required to execute this once you've done it your first time, furthermore it's not anything that will alter due to circumstances, the timing of your dismount may due to terrain or optimal "jump" conditions, but the timing of your dismount before you run out of stamina will never change, meaning the skill ceiling for the execution is VERY low as it can only be done one way.

I wouldn't celebrate any player for gaining an understanding of how that works

Like on a technical level it lacks the complexity or skill expression to be considered impressive to understand and execute when compared to most maneuvers in the game

[dusk meteor]

You're underestimating how fast the stam chunking happens. New players aren't necessarily expecting it so it can take a little before they notice if they're learning on their own. The falling animation is almost messed up client side so that won't broadcast what happened either, but that's on the fault of the game.

Most reasonable players I know will dismount at half stam or above. But even from half stam, only two chunks will render you with zero stam. It happens faster than most will notice their first few times. (which, honestly, is not a good thing for a game since its the Isle poorly broadcasting its mechanics but it does factor into the balance)
You should lower your expectations a little. Officials simply aren't filed with decent players. Most are pretty bad at playing and won't come close to executing anything technical.

It lacks mechanical complexity but does rely on you, the player, to be invested in and learning from your failed experiences which imo is most of the Isle. I wouldn't say the Isle had many things which require technical experience and people just complain about the things that do because its hard

[rare fractal]

Oh trust me, new players will mess up the most basic things, but I'm not talking about players who are literally fresh off purchasing the game and playing utah, I'm talking about averages, what I expect from roughly 70-80% of players in the game due to the ease of execution and low knowledge/skill ceiling....which for something as simple as "I can't tank 5 chunks of stam, I should jump at the 3rd or 4th" seems fairly reasonable if not comically reasonable to expect of that 70+%.

Like seriously I cannot overstress how low a bar we'd be setting by establishing dismounting before being drained of all stamina as a relatively impressive thing to perform, you are quite literally observing the drain of a meter on your hud, and releasing a button before it's all gone, this should not take you more than 2 pounces to basically master, and by that point you'd still be in that early bird newby stage of your exploration of the game.

Yes most players on officials suck, but I don't think we should cater to the relative skill level of the worst of the playerbase, the expectation should be raised, not kept at the low level that is most comfortable to people that don't bother to learn even the most basic and fundamental mechanics, such as this one.

"but does rely on you, the player, to be invested in and learning from your failed experiences which imo is most of the Isle"
This statement can accurately describe all conceivable actions one can take.
Actions fundamentally require investment, and learning from either a literal failure or an imagined hypothetical in which the desired outcome is not met, I don't think this should be used as standard for advocating for the level of difficulty of a video game mechanic, because again, this can accurately represent any action taken across all of humanity.

If idiots complain about simple mechanics being too complicated, I'd either explain why they aren't simple, or ignore them, they clearly don't know what they're talking about.

[burnt bone]

If we are saying the utah doesn’t know how to dismount, then the pachy shouldn’t know how bleed and breaks work. So they should lose a LOT more bleed and only get a body fracture.

[rare fractal]

Something I must agree with you on is that the game VERY poorly communicates how mechanics work to the player, that needs addressing

[burnt bone]

Also, I don’t think any of us are saying “pachy is fodder, buff it so it’s a god” I’m saying that the matchup is more like 40-60 in Utah’s favor instead of 60-40 in pachy’s favor, so it needs some decent damage buffs to help it compete against utahs and other future smalls.

[dusk meteor]

I am not proposing that knowing to jump off before you hit zero is peak skill. Its just part of the knowledge you need to be a good player and this is only one example of the kinds of knowledge that contribute to skill, not all of it.

On top of that for a clean pachy fight you need to know what pachy stam drain is like, the area of the map you're in, approximately how much bleed the pachy might have at any given moment. Almost all the utah packs I've ever joined in officially are wholly incompetent. They understand how to beat something, but then can't execute it, which is the next step.

[rare fractal]

I'm not even saying that much, at least not rn.
I'm saying pounce is, on many levels, a very forgiving, disproportionately easy to execute, and mechanically simple ability that negatively impacts the pachy utah matchup (and all matchups involving utah) because of how easily accessible it is despite it's significant rewards

[dusk meteor]

And frankly I this is what people are saying and it's dumb. People are very dramatic over the pachy utah matchup and act like pachy can't win, even though its very capable of doing so, and then begin to talk about bleed which is not an issue soley for pachy.

Some, instead, talk of buffing damage although the damage output seems fine to me. I was pleasant surprised when I began to play pachh

[burnt bone]

The majority of players are pretty bad. But that doesn’t mean the game should be balanced around them, especially on a skill based matchup like this.

[rare fractal]

Well obviously one of the most basic and fundamental skills for a utah is integral to getting really good at the animal, I'm just placing that VERY low on the scale of difficulty and it shouldn't be a benchmark for becoming a good utah as much as terrain awareness or a few of those other things you listed are, which take more time and situational awareness to understand properly, still not too difficult but at the very least, more difficult.
But we aren't talking about those, we're talking about dismount.

And again, if those players are bad, then they're bad, they should need to improve, the game shouldn't be designed around those who suck at the game, which it currently does to a significant degree.

[rare fractal]

I don't think a damage buff is the route either, well...aside from the vertical ram, that should be stronger, but aside from that pachy is fine damage wise, all the problems with the matchup fundamentally stem from the accessibility of utah

[burnt bone]

If they make utah pounce much harder to use mechanically, then that should help a lot. However, that depends on what they do.

[rare fractal]

Which they just should regardless, it's needed for all of utahs matchups...and just the quality of utah as a playable

[burnt bone]

Depending on what they do, it may not end up being enough. That is why I’m just suggesting ways to increase pachy’s damage against smalls, since that’s my main issue currently.

[jagged jewel]

Speaking of remaking mechanics, they should really just rework lunge to be more interactive and fun

[rare fractal]

I think the best way is to significantly buff vertical ram, that's one of the only ways that almost exclusively effects it's capacity against smalls

[jagged jewel]

Instead of just "i hold rmb and go underwater"

[rare fractal]

Say it louder

[jagged jewel]

what

[rare fractal]

Oh I'm just agreeing with you vehemently

[burnt bone]

That is one of the ways I’d like them to go down too. It’s much easier to balance multiple moves with different uses than 1 that does everything. Just look at teno.

[rare fractal]

Mhm, teno is indeed a fantastic example of how to design the abilities of a combat focused dino.

But yeah make Vertical ram a borderline execution attack, and make pachy's alt do more damage than utahs bite xD

[dusk meteor]

Actually yes, it does. If you tailor your game to hard-core players your player base dies when they're gone. You require enough hook and your balance should be built around the average player - not people like us that sit in the discord and learn everything about the game.

[jagged jewel]

ah mb lol

[rare fractal]

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on how the Souls community even exists

[dusk meteor]

Teno was a fantastic example. Now it's just.. Kinda too strong. I love teno but now all the fights are boring because I just win unless it's against a good few raptors

[burnt bone]

I wouldn’t buff alt if they make headslam good. Alt would be basically just for the setup and knockdown, so you don’t want spamming alt to be better than headslam.

[jagged jewel]

making pin be its own attack would be great, basically make it RPR but in TI

[cyan flame]

No. You balance for the most skilled, because otherwise, you'll have those people be able to do things you didn't mean to happen.

[rare fractal]

Yeah if in conjunction it may be too powerful

[dusk meteor]

Darksouls is not the Isle. Dark souls has built a cult mentality of harsh but fair. The Isle is harsh and unfair it fundamentally has a different basis

[cyan flame]

Teno is a fantastic example of a well designed dino combat wise. That is in terms of mechanics and all that, not stats for that matter. Also "a good few raptors" and you die, so much for teno being too strong then :p

[burnt bone]

Yes, and that is why we have easy Dinos like deino, stego, and carno. Utah is just one of those difficult dinos, and pachy is decently difficult as well.

[rare fractal]

If it's both harsh AND unfair, how would making the game more mechanically complex degrade the playerbase....
Plus the souls series is a collection of games that directly caters the best at the games, they are difficult, very difficult, without modding you can't make most of them easier, so how do those games have such a colossal playerbase and fandom despite those games making it very clear that you need to massively improve upon your baseline to even accomplish the most basic of tasks the game presents to you, doesn't that fly in the face of "if you balance the game around the most skilled, the playerbase dies"

[dusk meteor]

No, you plan for those players but you don't balance around them. If you balance around them the rest of the game goes down the drain because most people can't keep up. Most players are simply not these people and their experience should not be crafting the experience of the many.

Also we all know raptors are strong I brought up a few times previously raptors magnetic pounce is a problem for teno and Carno moreso than pachy because they do not have priority over the pounce. Fighting a large pack of raptors without using terrain = doom

You need a bottleneck otherwise the right choice for the raptors is always to trade health for bleed

[cyan flame]

It's the other way around personally xD

[rare fractal]

How do you both plan for the best players yet not balance around them, how do you "plan" for players in a method outside of balance

[rare fractal]

Utah is comically easy.....like....it actually makes me equally sad and amused at how leisurely and effortless it is to achieve the greatest rewards of the playable

[dusk meteor]

I'm sorry to tell you that most of the souls player base aren't actually good at the game, they just happen to like it and will gladly pass off their frustrations more easily than most games because of that fairness. The fairness is a very important factor for dark souls in tempering player frustration.

[rare fractal]

Oh I know, but the game isn't balanced around them, and therefor those players will suffer when attempting activities they aren't skilled enough for, so how does this counter my point?

[dusk meteor]

An I'm not against making the Isle more mechanically complex when did that come up? I said the Isle isn't mechanically complex as a fact in its current state

[burnt bone]

Currently, yeah utah is a bit simple, it has a low skill floor.

[cyan flame]

You must balance around them, or else you will get unintended results when someone gets good as it were. And that is not desireable at all. People can and will learn, that's simple enough.

[cyan flame]

It's more so to me that speed and agility = no need to use braincells. To me stego, and carno (deino is an issue all of its own since you just sit there) is harder due to less ability to readjust anything. Thus mistakes get punished. Meanwhile, utah, and dryo, just moves. You mess up, you can just readjust on the fly, no risk and no punishment really. But that's probably because I'm very good at thinking three steps ahead and all that, so as long as I can just keep moving, I'll be just fine.

[dusk meteor]

Yes because dark souls isn't the Isle. The Isle is an inherently unfair survival experience with no filter for player frustrations. Unlike dark souls where people tend to go "Well that's on me!" people instead direct their frustration at the game
Which is how the community is the way it is >. >

In casual players this leads to people quitting

[dusk meteor]

I didn't say you didn't need to consider them but planning for them is not the same as balancing everything around them.

[cyan flame]

Maybe we're using the word balance differently here. I just mean that you always need to take the best player/result into account. You can't balance stats for "I will miss five times, because I'm not a good player", because then the guy that never misses, will become OP. Do you see the issue I see here?

[dusk meteor]

I know what the issue is and yes we are using the word differently. Balance should be how your average matchup turns out. You should invest time into planning for the best and worst case scenarios, but they shouldn't be the center of balance.

[cyan flame]

But planning does not fix the issue then? They have to be the center because the "average" isn't the actual results you'll get with good players. How can you balance a matchup without it becoming op if you do not take said op players into account?

[cyan flame]

Isn't there a lot of "oh thats on me" in the Isle too to be fair? Plenty of circumstances here where you can look and go "I messed up", and not blame the game?

Yes, it's a survival game, but it's still "fair" as long as your playable is viable and have a way to survive encounters if played properly?

[austere python]

why are you all requesting a thousand concept arts for phase three? you think keeping them busy with scetches on paper is gonna finish the game or give you access to any new playables or mechanics?

[cyan flame]

Because we'd like to see interesting stuff that the artists have done while the programmers and animators are working on the game? :p

[rare fractal]

The isle is unfair? But there are absolutely ways to avoid every encounter the game throws at you, avoid deinos by drinking at shallow drinking areas, avoid carnos by staying away from plains, counter utahs by sticking near cliffs, or simply inhabiting underpopulated parts of the map to ensure the impossibility of death via other players, live off AI or graze to your hearts content.
In instances of the game being unfair to the player, the community highlights those as points of criticism, if carno had the same agility as utahs do, had unhindered agility during charge, had infinite stamina, 1000 damage per bite....etc...nobody would be ok with that and that would certainly be defined as a terrible result....but it's unfair, so if the isle is inherently an unfair experience, then this is perfectly acceptable and we can just ignore those supposed flaws....right?
You can trace back every death not caused by obviously horrendous balancing or bugs to a player error, that alone proves the game is at least attempting to be fair, but to the degree of fairness given a set of circumstances is what can be discussed, a group of 5 carnos finding a teno in a field alone is an unfair matchup in the carnos favor, but the teno could've taken steps to avoid the carnos or the area they may be residing in.....upholding the games fairness

[dusk meteor]

Planning is exactly what fixes the issue. It isn't just thinking about what could happen, it is implementing restrains and other factors that hinder or enhance others, preferably without rocking the core aim behind the matchup too much.

The only kinds of games that work for planning around good players are games like dark souls which fundamentally put fairness at the core of the games design.

While some players may anecdotally put it onto themselves that's not the point. That happens in every game, but it is not a core part of the Isle. There are and will always be situations which are inherently unfair or skewed against you in the Isle and the devs have said as much. A lack of fairness is a core part of the Isle experience which makes it an easier target to project frustrations onto.

And your last fair I just. Idk. The Isle is not a fair game and it never will be because that's not the intent. Idk where you get the idea that it's fair or even intended to be

[rare fractal]

I'm genuinely baffled at how you think this game is intentionally unfair as a core design principle....in fact I wouldn't even be able to claim that for the vast majority of games....because most games are designed to be played

[dusk meteor]

And yes while I fundamentally do agree that a player can do their best and avoid putting themselves in. A bad situation that doesn't change the core intent where the game is inherently skewed against you. This is not a personal perception of fairness. It's not "boo hop the massive group of ootahs got me salt salt" kind of fair.

Its the kind of fair which is conceptual built into the product whereby the devs intend for the game to put you at a disadvantage and for some situations to be practically impossible.

Now I gtg again work

[austere python]

name that situation then

[dusk meteor]

Also designing a game to be played =/= fair otherwise asymmetrical power games wouldn't exist

(when I'm back)

[austere python]

in chess when you lose a piece the game is "unfair", yet by playing better before you could have avoided that

same in the isle

[cyan flame]

I'm not quite sure what you mean with planning there then honestly. Also not sure on the "fairness" thing. I'd say the Isle is "fair enough" I did give you examples on how you can look at things and see where you made a mistake, and didn't just die due to game saying so. That's part of balance too after all. I'm thinking lack of fairness in the Isle isn't quite what you mean it is, but I could be wrong.

Anyway, I'm not seeing how planning would fix the issues of good players turning a playable OP if you don't account for that. You have to account for the best players and what they can actually achieve with a playable to get accurate balancing. You can not balance for average skill, because then you get strange situations when a player is at max skill. I really don't see how planning would fix that? The core of a matchup is the balance?

[rare fractal]

All games that present a challenge to the player are fundamentally skewed against the player in some regard.
The devs intending to present you with a set of circumstances in which you are at a disadvantage does not define unfairness, that actually is what is at the core of any game ever produced, challenge is inherent to games, they wouldn't be interactable (games) without it.

Also it's funny that you define asymmetrical power games as unfair towards the player, as that is literally every souls game. You are statistically weaker than the boss you're facing during progression in basically every regard without a centuries worth of grinding or exploiting their AI, and some bosses this simply doesn't apply to. That's one of the core design principles behind how those games are made, putting the player into a scenario in which their knowledge of the games mechanics and ability to execute upon said mechanics can overcome a statistical imbalance....or rather....a statistical unfairness...

Which I find interesting since you would define those games as fair...so how is the isle any different?

[rare fractal]

Btw, fantastic example

[cyan flame]

Some situations might be impossible, but then you might have ways to avoid them? Sure, you're at a "disadvantage" in that the game wants you to die, but you do have ways to overcome that and survive, which is the point of the game, the core idea here? Survive the Isle?

[rare fractal]

And adding onto this, a player in chess who's lost most of his pieces can still win the game despite a statistical "unfairness" skewed against him

[rare fractal]

The inability to fly and clip through walls in most games could technically be defined as an "unfairness" by that standard ironically, simply applying limitations to the player and then needing to find alternative methods of overcoming that obstacle would then be "unfair" to the player....strange

[cyan flame]

@dusk meteorI think maybe this is also because we're looking at fair differently. Fair in the sense of "I can take on everything" the Isle is not. There are things in the game where you can do nothing but run away. That is not the same as "the game is not fair" because you still have options to do something to ensure your survival and continued progress. So sure, the Isle isn't meant to be fair in the sense of you being able to handle every situation in the same manner, but more so fair in that you do have a way to handle it.

[rare fractal]

Which is true for all games in some degree, otherwise they wouldn’t be games

Lacking a challenge (meaning optimal methodology for success) would intrinsically remove the interactivity of the media

[rare fractal]

@dusk meteor Anyways I’ve REALLY got to get to bed, but great conversation I really enjoyed talking with you and everyone else! Sorry to cut things short 👍

[zealous stone]

Yes but most games with combat have it where you can eventually beat every enemy, you just have to go about it differently. The Isle is it bit weird where its combat is a strong point, but it a lot of instances you just have to run away, which isn't really as fun as fighting. It lacks the depth. It's either run for cover or run until the other guys runs out of stamina, whether it be in a straight line or in erratic zigzags. That's not particularly interesting, unless it's only something you have to do occasionally, which is likely why dinos like Hypsi and Dryo are so unpopular at the moment.

Sure river crossing time is another factor, but that's very situational.

Running away simply lacks the depth combat has, and you don't get as much satisfaction for simply surviving that you do from both surviving an encounter and beating the other guy in a fight.

Especially when you consider basically every mechanic involved in running away is also useful in combat.

[uneven mist]

@rain hollow If you are experiencing issues with your controls since the latest update (can't move camera, unable to court, Night Vision not working , etc) then please try wiping your config files in localappdata.

1. If running The Isle, exit the game.
2. Open File Explorer.
3. Click the address bar at the top.
4. Type %localappdata% then press Enter.
5. Find "TheIsle" folder. Open it.
6. Open the "Saved" folder.
7. Delete the "Config" folder. Note: This will reset any of your custom settings to their defaults.
8. Restart the game. The issue should be fixed.

[rain hollow]

thank you for replying but someone allready told me

[austere python]

look for another genre then, its not a fighting game but a survival simulation. Would you like Gallimimus to "have a chance" against t-rex?

[zealous stone]

That would look stupid

Which why I can say for sure, I won't be playing much Gallimimus.

You can bring up the fact that it's a survival game, and yeah sure your right, but the current player distribution among the roster and the frequency of sport hunting shows that it's the combat that most people enjoy.

[echo tiger]

The game doesn't know what it wants to be. It's far from a realistic simulation that's for sure

[zealous stone]

Unless something is done to make running away more interesting, most people will avoid playing dinos that rely on it a lot.