suggestion-discussion

[royal lily]

I could be remembering wrong but I remember due to organization id still have to grab supplies from multiple boxes and ended up not using that feature but I could be missing something

[languid ibex]

Looks like we tied #memes-and-clips

Not so slow now is it?

[proper sequoia]

you quite literally bastabbed the guy

Do it again without backstabbing him

[languid ibex]

That's a win condition, just as baiting an attack into parrying is.

[proper sequoia]

.. If we are starting the fight with a backstab i could finish the fight in like 6 seconds

[languid ibex]

The damage from a battleaxe secondary backstab is meaningless, it's about knowing how to build stagger.

[proper sequoia]

yeah but with the backstab it lead to you being able to stagger since he was caught off guard

just do it again without backstabbing him if it's not such an issue

[languid ibex]

Seems like we're adjusting the goals here, you wanted 10 seconds, you got it.

[proper sequoia]

You got 10 seconds WHILE backstabbing

you had an advantage and tied so the sword is better

[languid ibex]

I never said it wasn't an issue, I am saying it's part of knowing how to utilize the weapon properly.

[languid ibex]

Go ahead and backstab then I don't mind.

[proper sequoia]

waht so you'll cheat again?

Why would you resort to backstab if you knew you could tie me?

[languid ibex]

I can see you're just not going to be happy, suppose I am a little disappointed.

[proper sequoia]

I already had a clip to demonstrate and did it, you straight up backstabbed him even thought you saw how I did it

IF you can do it once than go ahead and prove it to all of us that you kill it in 10 seconds without backstabbing it

[languid ibex]

Backstab is a crucial part of upping stagger into 3rd hit combos and chaining stagger, if you didn't dismiss the weapon and assume it's slow you might've learned that for yourself. 🤷

[proper sequoia]

Or how about we do it with a 2 star soldier this tim

id like to see you stagger that

[proper sequoia]

there is very little oppurunity to backstab in real time

especialy in the ashlands

fucking ashlands everything hears you from two miles

[languid ibex]

Yeah not true, I've beaten the game in troll armor, stealthing is easy

[proper sequoia]

that has to be the most cowardly thing I have ever heard

What you used a bow and snuck all your enemies?

[languid ibex]

Anyways, you're resorting to insults, I'll see myself out.

[proper sequoia]

sure go ahead now that you lost the argument

[lofty wave]

both 2h axe attacks have a 10% movespeed multiplier, not 0

[spiral ice]

@proper sequoia Battleaxes aren't a silver bullet. They work well in many situations, but not all. They excel in clearing groups of fulings or seekers, the Crystal Battleaxe destroys everything in the frost caves, and all battleaxes can attack through walls, making them crazy good for dungeons in general.

Against brute enemies, battleaxes can still work (stagger with secondary before using primary), but I generally do use a sword or bow to kill them, and I agree that's probably a better approach. 👍

Right tool for the right job. There are some things a battleaxe does better than a sword and shield, and there are some things a sword and shield do better than a battleaxe.

One other thing though: using battleaxes increases your axe skill, making the Berserkir Axes in the Ashlands even more stupid powerful than they already are. 😁

[vital berry]

The amount of goalpost moving is unreal.

[rose swan]

Different strokes for different folks

[royal lily]

True 😈

Everybody (me) knows knives are the best

[runic plover]

Ahmet did say in the beginning to get the kill in 10 seconds without hitting its weak point. He didn't move a goalpost; it was forgotten, apparently.

[pliant sorrel]

swordddddddsss 👀

[rose swan]

Doesn’t look like Omni hit the weakpoint though, think he just started off the combat encounter with a sneak attack 🤔
Regardless, I think both weapons are perfectly fine.

[rose swan]

My favorite weapon changes like… monthly
Most weapons are really fun to use, and generally feel pretty effective.

[royal lily]

My first love was the atgier

[pliant sorrel]

I hate that i suffer from this, my only difference is that my favorites stack 😭😭for example, oo sword! I love it, dual weild axes? Dope! Battleaxes? Even better! So on so until i have 6 favorites and a breakdown trying to figure out which ones to use

[pliant sorrel]

I remember my atgier obsession for a playthrough 🥹

Right now i’m stuck on deciding between a sword and a dual weild axe since they both deal slash.. but i decided to settle on both lmao, they’re both too good

[rose swan]

Oh this is me 1000% LOL

For me, Dyrnwyn was just too cool for me to not use… but the bersekir axes?? Also too cool to not use.
Solution? Use them both

But then there’s the Slayer, which is also crazy cool… and yeah I keep it with me too 👀

[pliant sorrel]

EXACTLY! As much as it shouldn’t be put together, they have their own greatness

[runic plover]

It seems I may have misunderstood their discussion. Having actually seen the videos a few times now, when Ahmet said backstab, I had assumed he meant a hit in the back, not a stealth initiation. In any case, both weapons have their uses and I'm not inclined to either one anyway.

[pliant sorrel]

I swap out for dual wield swords immediately, to me they’re so fricking cool and good not to use

[peak bronze]

Battleaxes/dual axes, knives, spears, fists. Those are currently my most favored weapon types.

[pliant sorrel]

Hell! Everything is our favorite!!❤️‍🩹

[peak bronze]

Currently playing with those weapons in new run, this time I ditch the bow fully and dedicate for spear throwing as my ranged option.

[languid ibex]

I didn't touch the weakpoint. 👀

[ember lily]

Drakes too?

oh, gl with that

[peak bronze]

-# I've actually done it once before.

[runic plover]

I read the conversation before watching your video. When he said backstab, I assumed he meant hitting it in the back, which you didn't.

[languid ibex]

Ah, fair confusion haha

[karmic flax]

Do you ever

But then

[crimson ermine]

Sounds like one of my suggestions

[karmic flax]

Was looking through my old ones

[rose swan]

Classic!

||Love you Smiffe 🫡 ||

[crimson ermine]

Never change

[rose swan]

I have a serial disliker on my suggestions lol but it’s actually not Smiffe 👀

[peak bronze]

You have a nemesis? 👀

[rose swan]

Apparently

[peak bronze]

Ah I see.

What could you have done in that case.

[rose swan]

Yeah I don’t know, I think there was a disagreement a while ago or something, who knows

[marsh radish]

Smiffe actually upvoted one of my suggestions 😏

[rose swan]

Oh hey! It’s me

[wanton atlas]

https://giphy.com/gifs/art-club-mrperak-DIuf1nZCDvupSmBQ95

[lilac path]

oops my dumbass just removed someone else's message trying to get that spam bot, sorry about that

[safe dove]

I have gotten two Smiffe upvotes in my time:

[safe dove]

No worries.

[safe dove]

To be fair, Smiffe also downvoted the first one. So let’s say I’ve gotten one and a half.

[lofty wave]

why is there another one already

[safe dove]

MR BEAST!?!?!

TAKE MY MONEY!!!!!!

[marsh radish]

At this point Smiffe just has a cult following here 😂

[safe dove]

(How I feel praying to Smiffe at night so the cool recommendations get added to the game)

Honestly, I don't have any issues with late game birds dropping more feathers, it's just that feathers build up so quickly, as they're a dungeon reward in the Black Forest, they drop from every bird, including chickens. If you run a chicken farm you will never run out. I need to obliterate them sometimes.

[long anvil]

my issue with is simple; its a limiting factor on bows that helps keep them in check in combination with the early nerfs to them

not a severely limiting one, either

[languid ibex]

I remember suggesting a bird's nest/house and it was upvoted quite a bit, but then chickens dropped and my worries faded.

[lofty wave]

the later arrows don't need more feathers so why would later birds need to drop more

[languid ibex]

Also this

[safe dove]

Feathers are by no means a limitting factor on bows.

[languid ibex]

If anything, decor utilizing feathers would be neat.

[long anvil]

they are literally the only limiting factor

[safe dove]

Arrows are.

[long anvil]

wood is functionally infinite

[safe dove]

Feathers are functionally infinite

[languid ibex]

So how is there a limiting factor when wood arrows are infinite.

[long anvil]

no, functionally infinite means it can keep up indefinitely with any level of usage

[languid ibex]

As can feathers.

[safe dove]

Yes

[languid ibex]

Having problems with feathers? Make a bigger chicken pen & slaughter frequently.

[long anvil]

hell yeah the peanut gallery

[languid ibex]

It's a discussion channel, did you not wish to start a discussion?

🤨

[long anvil]

with people who want to discuss sure

[languid ibex]

Discussing isn't only agreeing with what you have to say.

[long anvil]

the irony

[languid ibex]

There's zero irony there.

[safe dove]

I thought we did have a discussion, though a small one.

[long anvil]

i think you were fine, apologies

my problem was 100% with the guy i blocked

[rose swan]

If anything, metal is the hardest component to acquire for arrows, right? 🤔

[languid ibex]

Yikes, you really can't disagree these days.

[long anvil]

i mean per specific arrow, sure

[lofty wave]

bronze arrows are expensive, iron is pretty easy to get

[safe dove]

Usually, yeah. In the mistland and ashlands since arrows are made from enemy drops it's a complete non issue.

[long anvil]

in practice feathers are the only thing that will bottleneck you over the course of using them, and if youre running just bows you can and will run out of feather-using arrows (wood arrows are bad at all tiers)

[lofty wave]

but spending it on a consumable can be hard with the renewable sources being so rare

[languid ibex]

I utilize Silver Arrows more than Frost Arrows, but silver makes quite a lot of arrows.

[karmic flax]

i refuse to make metal arrows

[safe dove]

How many arrows are you using!?!

[lofty wave]

I only make a stack of iron arrows to start in mountains

[long anvil]

on the run where it was the only weapon i used? a lot

[safe dove]

I just use whatever I find in chests until the plains/Mistlands

[karmic flax]

wood arrows until needle arrows for me

[peak bronze]

I still use fire arrows in mountains if I use bow more.

[languid ibex]

in practice feathers are the only thing that will bottleneck me* over the course of using them, and if I* am running just bows I* will run out of feather-using arrows (wood arrows are bad at all tiers).
Fixed that for you 👍

[safe dove]

Sometimes I'll make obsidian arrows in the mountains, but I often rock a finewood bow/flint arrows into the plain

Hell I've had an upgraded finewood bow into the Ashlands

Fastest fire rate, lowest stamina cost.

[lofty wave]

don't they all have the same fire rate?

[languid ibex]

Yeah, Huntsman Bow and Troll Gear was how I first landed in Ashlands, it let me drop any detections quickly and deal with enemies in my path in silence.

[safe dove]

Looks beautiful as well

[safe dove]

Smart

[safe dove]

No? At least I don't believe so. They do definately have varying stamina costs.

[languid ibex]

I always enter a new biome in cheap gear so the only risk is skill loss, but I've gotten quite good at utilizing stealth.

[peak bronze]

Draw time is dependant on skill level.

[safe dove]

I parry and pray

[safe dove]

Ah, gotcha.

[languid ibex]

Respectable

[safe dove]

Spiritually I am a stealth archer, but in practice I am always the front liner.

[proper sequoia]

Yeah those berserker axes just be shredding through anything. Especially the lightning ones holy do enemies melt

[pliant sorrel]

So far, me too, today being my second, I feel pretty blessed 🥹🥹❤️‍🩹

[pliant sorrel]

WAIT nvm i have 3 smiffe likes 😭🙏🙏

But explain this smiffe 🤨🤨

[peak bronze]

He likes and dislikes it.

[pliant sorrel]

And idea too good and too bad..

[peak bronze]

But that doesn't even help what is the suggestion.

[karmic flax]

play both sides that way he always comes out on top

[pliant sorrel]

Lemme grab it

[peak bronze]

Copy link + paste should suffice.

[karmic flax]

oh no he's being silly on the april fools suggestion lmao

oh wait its a different one?

[pliant sorrel]

#suggestions message

[pliant sorrel]

It’s another one lol

[rose swan]

Was the bot down? Maybe he was filling in the reactions? 🤔

#suggestions message
Another Smiffe like lol

[safe dove]

He liked some aspects of it and disliked others

[wanton atlas]

explain what?

[karmic flax]

if the bot was down it wouldnt have given reactions like ♻️

[rose swan]

(I haven’t seen the suggestion)
Did Smiffe give the recycle emoji too? 🤔

[karmic flax]

no

[crimson ermine]

HOLY SMIFFE UPVOTED MY SUGGESTION

today i am born a new person

[languid ibex]

@finite acorn Boats don't move unless you're on board.

[languid ibex]

Odin has been known to drink too much mead and leave only 1 or 2 reactions.

[rose swan]

My favorite is when he only allows for 👎

[finite acorn]

i've seen high waves move my boat quite a bit when no ones on

[languid ibex]

It will only move if it knocks into a surface, otherwise it's stationary, even in waves.

[spiral ice]

If anyone cannot tell, yes, I am very salty about 0 trophies from 60+ warlock kills.

[royal lily]

😂could you fix up some sort of contraption around the first mysterious location spawner

[spiral ice]

I took over a Charred Fortress and left an Effigy of Malice up. I've been camped in front of it for at least an in-game week. I have 20+ trophies each for warriors and marksmen, but none for warlocks.

I've had better luck with bears, morgens, golems, and cultists. Probably 15 trophies combined of those. But the freaking warlock just won't drop his ribcage.

It's especially pissing me off because it's the only trophy that I haven't gotten in my current deathless no-magic game. 🙄

[royal lily]

Next one is gonna be it trust

[spiral ice]

If it is, I'll certainly let you know. 😄

[wintry bobcat]

@proper sequoia I feel like if we just get a Deep North fist weapon, it'll be good

Also although they're only in 3 biomes so far, they are pretty damn good. My favorite melee weapon, probably only getting outclassed by Atgeir bc that thing is unbalanced af

[wet drift]

Stationary would make it difficult to knock into something.

(But I guess height is just excluded)

[safe dove]

I wait a minute… I have an idea for the Ashlands fist weapon…

Use the Morgen trophy to create a spring loaded bear trap on your hand.

[shadow crow]

The Nommer

[safe dove]

The blood gem variant is "Nommer the Hungering."

[shadow crow]

Pac-Man alternate title

[languid ibex]

Nommer alternate name 😅

[long anvil]

I'd like to caveat my downvote to @red timber your post because were it just about spears I may change my mind - I largely agree that it's frustrating for it to be the way it is when the enemies that run from you stop existing so soon in progression.

[red timber]

I don't see the point of the shove with two-handed axes. It's a giant axe — if the character can wield it like a normal one, they're capable of spinning around and striking overhead.

[long anvil]

its a stagger tool that can be useful if youre not actually ready to swing yet, because its fast

your suggestion brings battle axes closer to two-handed swords and removes some identity from the axe imo

like, its definitely not a realism issue

[gleaming valley]

very well put Annyliese, battleaxe play would be so different without the boop, it would be much worse too imo. tho i do also really like spears how they are. its funny the suggestion was to drastically change my two favorite weapons XD if spear changed id have to carry a bow around, why would you want to do that to me? 😢

[rose swan]

Would rather see 2-handed clubs get some attention before any other weapon type 👀

[analog moss]

@sacred kernel #suggestions message sounds like more of a polearm feature.

[sacred kernel]

Kinda, but the spear really only has one way of attack, it would be cool to add a secondary.

[analog moss]

you can throw it. That makes it unique among melee weapon groups.

[sacred kernel]

Ig, but once you throw it, there’s no guarantee you’ll get it back.

[languid ibex]

The point is a fast option in an otherwise heavy and slow to start to the primary combo. This mix-up gives the weapon flexibility, and that's without mentioning the stagger/knockback utility. That secondary is one of the top reasons the 2H axes are one of my favorite/most used weapons in the game.

I will also mention the 3rd hit in the primary combo is a heavy overhead strike as you suggested.

[karmic flax]

Trapping an enemy between battle axe special attack and a wall is stun lock to death

[long anvil]

shoving poor greylings into the lockers

[spiral ice]

@royal lily 2 days and 6 warlocks later, I finally got one! Now I have every trophy. 😁

[wintry bobcat]

The point is you learn how to use the weapon how it’s meant to be used. You’re not supposed to see a serpent 2 km out in the ocean and Chuck your spear at it, because you’ll lose it

The throw is meant to be more of a melee engage. You throw the spear at an enemy, then run up to them, the game auto pickups and insta equips the spear on the ground for you so you can transition into melee

Sometimes you’ll throw a spear at a drake or something and you miss and it flies off the mountain. And then you learn to either not throw at enemies you can’t hit, or you improve your aim and only throw when the enemies aren’t moving

[ember lily]

#suggestions message I think everything except the jade buff has been suggested already, and jade is more about it's rlly strong extra effect, not the dmg so I don't think that would be necessary

[spiral ice]

In my opinion, blood weapons should have normal damage, but grant additional adrenaline. I've seen others voice this idea as well.

[karmic flax]

@cedar slate you're gonna get downvoted simply because you have multiple suggestions in the same post and people will downvote if they dont like one of them

aww, you couldve edited out all but one, there's a slow mode lol

[safe dove]

The paralysis enchantment is really strong. It’s what makes the vine staff almost op.

[peak bronze]

Would definitely use them more if they did.

[spiral ice]

Bleeding Berserkir Axes would go crazy with Fader power.

[wintry bobcat]

Personally I would still like maybe not a rework, but a tweak.

Longer duration root or more damage or something, and allow mobs to turn while immobilized

[arctic wharf]

"The game is not designed for Solo players" 🤔 I mean... the devs design entirely around the game being played alone, solo.
The bosses are very very very much beatable alone, they can just be a bit bullet spongey (really big health pools).

Ain't no way there will ever be an official server.

And for sure we will not have any magic "classes" early in progression since more powerful magic is purposefully only introduced later in progression.

Shows how out of touch you are, respectfully. And I suppose that is to be expected from a "potential player" who has likely not persevered into the late game.

Ofc, it can be a bit of a slog

.
As one other side note, boss design is not really a strength of Iron Gate. I could agree they could be better designed for a more challanging but fair feeling fight that does not drag on forever.

But they are good enough to still be fun for most, as they are now. Just to be fair both ways.

[wanton atlas]

@rapid sage game is made with singleplayer as focus.

[rapid sage]

@wanton atlas I don't think so

[wanton atlas]

unsure which general consensus is. since valheim sold way over 14 million games already

[rapid sage]

Boss fight is extremely difficult

[wanton atlas]

which one?

[rapid sage]

Because there's nothing quite like it

[wanton atlas]

I have killed every single boss, with every single weapon there is in the game. multiple times

all alone

[rapid sage]

Game

[wanton atlas]

and I am not good at our own game 😄

[rapid sage]

@wanton atlas I don't think so

[ember lily]

might be your opinion, but not the one of the majority

[arctic wharf]

Eikthyre, Elder, and Fader are all reletively easy / pushovers.
Bonemass can be a bit tricky at first and is when the spongey health really starts to be heavily felt.

Onwards, sure... they get a bit difficult, but you are nearing the end game so a difficulty ramp is to be expected.

[rapid sage]

Because there are quite a few mobs

[wanton atlas]

well. you are entiteled to your own opinion. but balance is made with singlplayer

[rapid sage]

Solo isn't appealing, bro

[wanton atlas]

then go find friends in #1024264966712340510

you can play alone, or up to 10 players

all up to you

[arctic wharf]

A subjective opinion.
Many do find it appealing, so can't state that as a fact since it would be false.

[rapid sage]

@wanton atlas What if I can't find it?

[wanton atlas]

people to play with?

[lofty field]

Find another game that is more to your liking?

[wanton atlas]

then don't buy the game if you can't play solo and cannot find friends

[rapid sage]

@wanton atlas yes

[wanton atlas]

Valheim is NOT a mmorpg

and will not have official servers

[arctic wharf]

Oop, it was said again hahaha.
Been a long time

[rapid sage]

@wanton atlas why not

[analog moss]

lol

[wanton atlas]

cost, moderation and it's not how the game is ment to be played

buy once, play forever

[analog moss]

Oh, I plan to.

[rapid sage]

Let them release a second game then

[wanton atlas]

valheim isn't a online game you need to login to portals or be stuck behind a montly subscription fee

[rose swan]

Whoa whoa, Fader is a pushover? 👀

[wanton atlas]

unsure what a Eikthyre is

hope it's round and is on some kind of vehicle

[arctic wharf]

For me at least, but I am used to pretty unforgiving boss designs.

[rapid sage]

@wanton atlas This is much smoother friend

[analog moss]

Maybe its like a pyre.

[karmic flax]

If nothing else theres always servers out there that you can join if you dont have friends to play with and dont like solo

[wanton atlas]

what is?

[rapid sage]

Valheim is a difficult game that's why it's not being played

[wanton atlas]

I would suggest playing any other viking style MMORPG instead

[wanton atlas]

we never said it's a easy game

[analog moss]

Not being played? lol

[wanton atlas]

but it's not balanced as a co-op game

[karmic flax]

If its too difficult turn down the difficulty?

[rapid sage]

@analog moss How many people are online?

[wanton atlas]

to many 😄

[arctic wharf]

A lot more than you would think actually...

[rapid sage]

10 100 1000

[arctic wharf]

Well over 1000

[karmic flax]

Therrs currently 22k online only on steam, but theres also xbox

[wanton atlas]

22,976 just on steam alone ^

many enjoying windrose atm

just like we told people. to not burn out playing valheim

and already stated. valheim is not a mmorpg

it does not require a large playerbase

[rapid sage]

@wanton atlas Why not

[wanton atlas]

listen

valheim is not a mmorpg

[rapid sage]

A large group of friends within the game

[wanton atlas]

it's a singleplayer game with co-op ability

so you don't need 10,000 players available

all you need is yourself

or a friend or two

[rapid sage]

@wanton atlas many activities and solo

@wanton atlas min 4

[wanton atlas]

....

well good luck then

[rapid sage]

@wanton atlas jackpot

[supple grove]

I think you are being successfully trolled.

[karmic flax]

I have 2k hours in valheim. 1500ish of those are solo

[wanton atlas]

no. but some people refuse to listen to other opinions

[rapid sage]

@supple grove unc

[arctic wharf]

Honestly just living in their own world.
Best to just let them go do their own thing and move on.

[rapid sage]

@arctic wharf I think so too😡

[arctic wharf]

Coolio, have a nice day 👋

[rapid sage]

@arctic wharf Have a good time

[arctic wharf]

Think I will, playing valheim

Teehee

[long anvil]

[languid ibex]

🤔

[rose swan]

Dead game!

[long anvil]

games too hard, when the greydwarves throw rocks at me i take damage

[rose swan]

Valheim needs the ‘Fable 3’ treatment. Remove armor value, get rid of the HP bar. When you fall in battle, literally no consequence- just get right back up, you’re the Chosen One after all!

[rapid sage]

@long anvil 😭

[long anvil]

[rapid sage]

[royal lily]

I was so pumped for 2... didnt even buy 3 🙁

[safe dove]

Bait

https://tenor.com/view/kazuhira-miller-they-played-us-like-gif-25533461

My only issue with the repellent torch is that it somewhat invalidates the anti sting potion. On the other hand, the potion is still useful for wandering around the plains instead. Maybe keeping creatures away could be given to the green standing torch? You're burning swamp gunk that smells like rotting fish. I can see that keeping most creatures away.

[royal lily]

I have beef w anti sting tho. By the time you kill moder you already have 2 pierce resistant items and armor/weapon ready for the plains

[random monolith]

I like the idea for a middle ground for teleporters

[verbal frost]

Hey guys new here thinking about starting a server useing a spare Xbox I have would anyone be interested?

[safe dove]

You should ask in the server channel, you’ll attract far more people who are interested!

[karmic flax]

#1024264966712340510

[languid ibex]

@wanton cove Weapons level quite quickly from 0 to 30-40, by then they're more than usable.

[spiral ice]

@wanton cove Using a TWIG solves that problem.

[proper sequoia]

@wanton cove Switching weapons is also a tactical choice, making you think of weapons to invest in. I switched my sword (100 skill) to berserker axes with less than 10 skills and got it to 65 just fightings mobs. Or you can afk TWIG if it's an issue

[split dagger]

Hey, I was just about to publish a suggestion for a new siege event in the Ocean, namely some sort of pirate ship that may approach your boat and attack you, but I saw it's already been suggested several times in the past - usually met with pretty negative reactions. Why would it be a bad idea? 😮

[languid ibex]

The risk of losing a boat/goods in the middle of the ocean is a tricky prospect, and it's likely most players are already strained to a degree by having to sail with metals and such.

It's hard to pinpoint everyone's reasoning, but this is what I see brought up most commonly.

[arctic wharf]

Very very resource/time intensive to implement.
Not a really enticing gameplay addition to valheim for many.

For the quick and dirty short response

[long anvil]

people hate FUN (this is sarcasm)

also theres just a general sentiment that npc boats would a.) be a nightmare to make work neatly and b.) not be within the vibe of the game

but i do think they should do more with the ocean, even if its not an event

[languid ibex]

I wouldn't mind a ship of Dvergr that is neutral, but can be antagonized at your own risk, but personally I wouldn't be a fan of a raid on the ocean.

I would also mention, negative feedback from the community doesn't necessarily inform if the idea will be well received by the developers, so don't let that stop you from suggesting what you'd like to see.

Any input is good input.

[split dagger]

Good point(s), yeah, I haven't even thought about how much it'd take to develop such a thing. I was thinking that one possible compromise to make such a raid less threatening would be to make it 'avoidable', kinda like Serpent attacks - if you're sailing fast enough, you can lose the Serpent and it will eventually disengage. But yeah, IDK

[long anvil]

I don't think it's hard to get something to that effect implemented, it's mostly hard to make it function nicely, especially without making NPC boats cheat by ignoring boat 'physics' which would just not feel polished or fun to play against.

I piggy back off of this discussion to reiterate my ancient point, though. Downvotes just discourage people from making suggestions.

[languid ibex]

They serve many functions, and they're not just discouraging-- some aren't even slightly discouraged. Feedback is a good thing, it helps things become better in many ways.

[split dagger]

The reason why I haven't posted my suggestion is not really the downvotes, but rather that it seemed to be a repost 😁

[long anvil]

Feedback is great. Here's a question for you, and I don't really look for an answer myself, I'd rather you think about it without responding at all.

Is granular "I dislike this" or "I like this" providing any value that a single button as a metric for engagement wouldn't provide on its own?

[languid ibex]

Well, this is a discussion channel, so I'll discuss what you've written here. In my eyes it takes away from a metric, but only one that the community is responsible for, which is as valuable as an individual makes it.

The issue with less input for feedback, you could have an idea with 50 upvotes, and 200 downvotes. Similarly, an idea with 50 upvotes, and 3-4 downvotes. This gives the suggester a better idea of how their idea came across, and they can more accurately address it in this discussion channel.

The above question by Cleo was a great example of a topic spurred on by people that didn't like an idea, and could serve to help the craft an idea more appealing to the community should they care about that.

[split dagger]

Yup, it's an interesting situation if you put it that way. On one hand the idea has been proposed several times, meaning that several people had the idea and thought they would like to see it in the game; on the other hand, there's also a fair amount of people who downvote the idea. By taking into account the upvotes and the downvotes and the reposts, you get a much peculiar picture of the players sentiment

[languid ibex]

I've always viewed similar suggestions as just an additional upvote for the general idea. I tallied suggestions for games I have worked on and helped with this way, because ultimately they suggest it because they want it as well. 😅

[wintry bobcat]

To add to this, I switch weapons every time I progress to a new biome (often even on increased difficulty) and I never feel like I’m slapping enemies with a wet noodle

[rose swan]

#suggestions message
Better to build your portals in safe spots 👀
Players already have the huge advantage of being able to not worry about the state of their portals- even if out in the open and completely exposed to monsters and the elements- when they’re not near it.

[wintry bobcat]

Gotta agree with Dogg

I feel like portals are pretty forgiving already in all the flexibility you have with them.

Plus in my experience I always go invulnerable while teleporting. I think I may have once died while teleporting bc I entered the teleporter and got hit at the exact same moment, but that’s kind of an edge case

[safe dove]

Good God the suggestion channel will be a gold mine for modders once the game hits 1.0...

[rose swan]

Indeed! This is something that the developers have mentioned as well- sometimes suggestions may not make sense for vanilla, but may actually be a great idea for a mod.

[dark wyvern]

Aren't there a lot of mods already. Sometimes checking those channels and often there's an active if somebody is looking for something.

[long anvil]

There are, and a lot of suggestions are inspired by mods, or inspired a mod to be created.

[rose swan]

Yeah, there’s a ton of mods. But the list will only grow once the game is fully released- may even see some super ambitious ones that overhaul the entire game. Assuming they don’t exist already- I’m not really into the modding community.

[long anvil]

there are already some pretty major overhauls including world gen mods, very cool stuff out there

ymmv on quality though

[cedar slate]

i've seen something of this sort very recently

[stiff stag]

#suggestions message The game isn't designed around PvP so that's entirely a non-issue.

[proper sequoia]

The fire damage should still be buffed regardless

[gleaming valley]

yeah it's really weird how this legendary sword you have to fight the nightmare of a miniboss to get is worse than every gem ashlands sword

[long anvil]

once upon a time...

[proper sequoia]

Only logical explanation is it is a needed weapon for the Deep North or they just did this not thinking the other weapons would be very op

[gleaming valley]

maybe you NEED it for some reason. continue the quest, the flaming sword melts some frozen door or idk.

[vestal lotus]

For people who play a lot of Valheim: what enemies or bosses are easiest to cheese right now?

I mean stuff like enemies getting stuck, not reaching you on terrain, being too easy to kite, raids becoming harmless, or bosses that stop feeling dangerous once you know the trick.

Curious what patterns people notice most.

[languid ibex]

Let us use gems on Dyrnwyn! 😅

[languid ibex]

Is this related to a suggestion or?

[long anvil]

still bonemass imho though its a bit hard to quantify and thus rank how easy things are to cheese, since a large majority of creatures can be in some manner

[vestal lotus]

Yes

[long anvil]

like arguably abominations are the least threatening thing in the game because you can almost accidentally cheese the poor things

[languid ibex]

Which suggestion is that, I'm not seeing any boss related suggestions

[vestal lotus]

Ah sorry, not an existing boss-specific suggestion. I’m just gathering examples for a possible suggestion about enemy/boss behavior and common cheese methods — mainly which ones are still reliable/repeatable.

[languid ibex]

Oh awesome!

[karmic flax]

that'd be a discussion for #valheim-chat

[spiral ice]

I would say The Queen. Just sit in the indestructible entrance and hit her with a battleaxe through the wall. When she summons seekers, just kill them as they approach.

Or maybe Eikthyr since using Early Axes is basically cheese. 😆

[languid ibex]

#suggestion-discussion message 👀

[spiral ice]

To be fair, there's a lot of conversation that happens here that's not related to suggestions. 😅

[languid ibex]

Typically it branches from suggestion discussions, where this was just a bit off topic from the jump, and a moderator rerouted it immediately.

They did repost the topic #valheim-chat message

[sacred kernel]

Why does no one think more sea creatures are cool?

[marsh radish]

It's not that they don't think they're cool, its more the logistics side of things. Like losing a boat full of iron in the middle of the ocean would be horrible. And corpse runs would be tough. And some other developer side issues. But personally I'd love to see some variation and new stuff in the ocean biome

[long anvil]

i think more sea creatures would be cool

i think we deserve a sizable ocean update

[spiral ice]

In response to which suggestion specifically?

[wintry bobcat]

Agreed, but the whole thing about doing less damage to people in low gear seems convoluted and unnecessary, so it’s a downvote for me

[long anvil]

spirit of the downvote preserved i guess

[languid ibex]

@near hazel You think spirits in the afterlife still need a bathroom? 😨

[near hazel]

my guy had too much fiber

[crimson ermine]

bathroom? i dont know what that is. is that a mod?

[long anvil]

the foods gotta go somewhere

[languid ibex]

I'm scared

[long anvil]

thistle is only half of the seasoning

[wanton atlas]

@languid ibex you know you remove the Thistle afterwards right?
it's just a garnish 😄

[languid ibex]

...never using sausages again!

[peak bronze]

Not to mention the other ingredient... Mmm, rest in peace, my great-great uncle Eric.

[long anvil]

your uncle was boar meat?

[peak bronze]

Entrails.

[long anvil]

if i wasnt so tired id make a joke about being on trails or something, but ive probably yapped too much off topic now i wouldnt wanna get banned

[peak bronze]

Maybe go to sleep.

[safe dove]

I sort of assumed we just eat the entire thing as a joke. Like how when eating the Roasted Boar feast one of the last parts to vanish is the pelvis of the boar, implying you ate it. It had no meat on it… you just… eat the entire pelvic bone of a boar…

Fighting the enemies of the All Father is hungry work I suppose.

[sacred kernel]

Yeah, ig that makes sense, but it would be cool if there was maybe 1 or 2 more creatures maybe in the outer parts of the map.

[royal lily]

I know I've heard the difficulty argument before but I am a huge fan of that especially in later biomes. Valheim being solution oriented makes big challenges tough to fail and fun to learn to conquer. I could see losing your stuff at sea being really miserable for a new player but if in later biomes maybe it could work. Not that I dont still get myself into pickles regardless

[stiff stag]

It's terrible at any stage of the game and regardless of whether you're new to the game or not. There's no world where that sort of thing works.

[lament zinc]

About this: #suggestions message

What's wrong with doing things behind a bush or against a tree? 🤔

[royal lily]

How's it bad if its fun for me

[crimson ermine]

Because you are a cheater

[shadow crow]

What’s cheating?

[royal lily]

Hes right.

[alpine saddle]

#suggestions message for logs:

logs can create a ton of lag when placed in stacks and such. Each asset moves and having dozens like that placed on top of each other is a nightmare when loading into and out of the areas.

Better off using custom commands to place the fixed logs and scaling them using Gizmo (and you can make them invincible)

[languid ibex]

@marble sparrow Corewood doesn't work well enough for you?

They're literally just logs 😛

[rose swan]

Right- there’s already a lot of components for log cabin builds 🤔
And besides, using raw logs for building sounds like a nightmare, even if you factor out the durability.

[wintry bobcat]

Ive for a while but wanting to try them for defense

Mount some logs on a fortress wall, then when the local inhabitants come knocking release those bad boys!

Bonus points for lighting them on fire first

[long anvil]

oblivion tutorial cave moment

[crimson ermine]

yesterday viking used dev commands on stream

the shame

[rose swan]

This gave me a good laugh 😂

[royal lily]

I did it today off stream, too

I wonder if there could be some type of early game thornmail-type armor that could allow you to essentially ignore greylings and greywarves that bother you while building. Is that a bad idea?

i dont mind them but i hear people's sentiment towards that situation XD

[karmic flax]

[crimson ermine]

my sentiment is as follows: CHEATER (i dont care)

[royal lily]

Thank you all for your feedback

[crimson ermine]

the day i stream valheim in this server is the day i get the cheater role in this discord. i cannot wait for this day, and i like looking down upon my subjects who try to imitate my level of cheating and fail so catastrophically

[royal lily]

I have over 100 cheats in a cheat folder

I blame a really fun server I played on

[long anvil]

great suggestions

[crimson ermine]

thank you for your consideration on this matter

[royal lily]

I thought you meant my suggestion was so bad it should be thrown in a fire. But now I realize the bonfire radius is larger so my question is, is it large enough where they won't throw stuff at me?

[karmic flax]

Couldnt find a torch emoji tbh

[crimson ermine]

well then i know what you are going to do

[royal lily]

killenemies?

[crimson ermine]

larsi is a mod, cant mods add emotes?

[royal lily]

LMAO

[karmic flax]

https://tenor.com/view/ha-ah-flash-slothmore-slow-smile-gif-16674230

[crimson ermine]

good

[karmic flax]

Your reaction

[royal lily]

#suggestions message so u reduce the iron and replace it with something else u have to go get? Or do u just not want to do any of that

[long anvil]

@proper sequoia iron is extremely abundant, is there a specific reason this bugs you?

[proper sequoia]

Idk maybe I don't want to go to a crypt for the millionth time because majority of the stuff in this game inclduing structures/weapons/armor require iron

[long anvil]

iron is available in the mistlands

[royal lily]

Theyre gonna re skin the iron scraps call it something else then it will be ok

[proper sequoia]

They can just solve this problem instead of having us mine for so much iron

Just change some of the stuff to other metals

Like padded armor in the plains could switch to blackmetal

Why make it iron in the first place when you have so little uses for blackmetal anyway?

[long anvil]

im trying to help you solve the problem because i dont share it, and am thus confused

i abhor the swamp and avoid it, i spend as little time there as possible and still dont have too much trouble getting iron

i do agree blackmetal could do with more uses, i dont think i agree it should be applied to padded armor but a new lateral armor could do

[karmic flax]

Dismantle a few bridges in mistlands and youll have enough iron for mistlands

[proper sequoia]

I need a couple hundread iron'

Will that cover it?

[karmic flax]

I got 150 from 2 bridges

[proper sequoia]

alr than time to go bridge hunting I guess

[karmic flax]

1 with 1 leg and 1 with 3 legs

[royal lily]

p sure each scrap u find on the way gives like 10 iron too

[gleaming valley]

lol, i wonder if you could mine swords and armor for “mistmetal” there would be an outcry, or if it’s the tedium of finding another swamp and doing some non-challenging gruntwork in a zone they’re way overgeared for

[karmic flax]

Me swimming in copper cause i wanted some black matble

[gleaming valley]

imean i just literally forge my krom from the swords of giants in the mistlands but

i could squint and say yup got more mistmetal!

[royal lily]

I'm sure u know but it looks really nice covering the black marble

[karmic flax]

If i was at my computer id post a screenshot of loose copper scrap items laying on black marble as a response to this

[royal lily]

I know someone who has crystal laying on the ground in a spot where you cant auto pick it up soooo 💡 ??

[languid ibex]

I don't mind that grind tbh, it highlights just how far along my pickaxe upgrades have come when my black metal pick obliterated crypts in minutes.

The chance of multiple chests having stacks of iron is also appealling.

[wanton atlas]

@proper sequoia fun fact. plains black metal are glass poop 👀

[karmic flax]

Lizard

[languid ibex]

Smiffe with the bombshell

[long anvil]

i just hate navigating swamp terrain

i dont mind doing the actual crypts, its getting there i hate

[languid ibex]

It's my favorite atmosphere personally.

[gleaming valley]

ya i dont really mind either, i choose to mine mistlands metals because reasons, but ive also done crypts for more iron

[long anvil]

mistlands and mountains in that order for me

if DN has fir forests itll be my favorite pretty handily though, especially if there are auroras for weather

[languid ibex]

Mistlands is my favorite biome overall, swamps is my favorite atmosphere though.

[gleaming valley]

and chains!

[languid ibex]

I am a bit of a sucker for horror vibes though

[gleaming valley]

i love looking around and seeing them creepers slowly creepin forward

[royal lily]

creepers, creepin around.... creepily

[marsh radish]

I like the swamp atmosphere as well

[gleaming valley]

first time like… my roof started glowing blue and there was this noise outside. like wtf??? not to mention nearly peed myself driving a boat along the coast over the large mob

man im off topic every channel today my bad

[royal lily]

Ya fiyad

[safe dove]

Is it weird to say I would like more iron sources? I’ve seen people complaining multiple times about needing more iron. Should there be iron outside the swamp/mistlands? (Not counting mountains since it’s literally just a doorway) I for one wouldn’t mind iron ore deposits being scattered around biomes. Maybe the Black Forest? Plains? Not sure where they would fit best. They should definitely be hidden beneath the surface like silver ore, requiring either a hammer or the wish bone to find. An iron pickaxe should also be mandatory to mine them just so you don’t skip over needing to kill the elder for them. A post swamp iron source so you don’t need to go back into the crypts.

[long anvil]

I just don't find it to actually be that rare?

[safe dove]

It’s not rare. People just end up using an obscene amount of it. It’s mandatory for large stone builds. It’s used in Mistlands equipment and the padded armor set (the best looking in the game). Even if playing solo, you use literal tons of iron.

[long anvil]

But I can easily get tons of iron.

[safe dove]

After exploring swamp crypts for 10’s of hours, I don’t want to need to find another swamp further away on the map, explore the crypts, and sail it back.

[long anvil]

If I had to identify something that can make it frustrating it'd just be transporting, but that said I can't think of a time I ever felt like a full longboat wasn't enough for whatever I was working on at the time.

[safe dove]

It’s never enough iron. Much in the same way it’s never enough wood.

[short wing]

That's why the fulings are so mad, I'd be mad as well if I'd be pooping glass.

[wanton atlas]

https://tenor.com/view/yeah-yep-ya-gif-2495301426354871501

[ember lily]

If you find rlly big swamps they will also have a lot of crypts tho, so that kinda encourages travelling and exploring more

[safe dove]

I don’t know. I think that’s true for people who have played the game for hundreds of hours, as I’m sure we all have at this point. I always load up until I have at least a finewood chest of iron. Sometimes two additional barrels worth. And yet I have still seen multiple complaints about iron.

[long anvil]

I'm reminded of the Deathsquito situation. People used to complain about them a lot and they did end up getting nerfed. But like... functionally, I barely notice a difference between pre-nerf and post-nerf (it was impactful, but in normal play I really just don't feel that different.)

[safe dove]

I don’t think that’s the case here. That’s people going into a biome they weren’t prepared for and getting one tapped. This is playing the game for hours and realizing you need to go back to a grind you thought you finished ages ago.

[short wing]

I hope they lower the iron need in the game still needing iron for weapons a few biomes later is annoying.

If every biome after swamp had also some way to get iron I would be ok with it but you need to go back to the swamp or loot a whole bunch of iron and spent so much time in the swamp.

[long anvil]

The difference with iron is that a buff to frequency or ease of getting the resource is gonna have far reaching consequence because of how much iron is used for. It cheapens the experience of actually gathering materials and thus engaging with the core loop of exploration.

[short wing]

Depending on what the ways are to get iron in other biomes that might lead to more exploration of said biome.

[safe dove]

The swamps aren’t fun to explore though, especially after you’ve already beaten the bonemass. It’s a slow march through marsh, always under a debuff, requiring potions to survive there.

[long anvil]

Mistlands as mentioned is pretty full of iron.

[short wing]

True but from swaps to mistlands is a few biomes apart.

[long anvil]

I don't find them fun to explore ever. I've said it a couple times up above, but I am a certified swamp hater. Navigating the terrain is awful and unfun. Doing the actual crypt is fine, though.

But this isn't a problem with iron this is a problem with the swamp and not one that is universally shared.

[languid ibex]

Swamps are incredibly fun to explore for me

[rose swan]

What is it you find enjoyable? What is it you explore for? 🤔

[karmic flax]

What do people use iron for the most? Support? Cause you can also use copper after mistlands and flametal in ashlands for it

[languid ibex]

I enjoy exploring for surface iron, locating surtling spawners, marking crypts to speed through when better equipped, and stockpiling guck when it's low to the ground is always in the back of my mind.

[safe dove]

I never liked swamps. They’re fine at first but grow old fast. It’s always dark, you’re always debuffed, they’re flat with little variation, all looking the same.

[long anvil]

On this we agree. It would probably help a lot if some of the structures you could find did more than... spawn the same draugr that already pepper the wetwaste.

[rose swan]

Iron grind was also made much easier with the inclusion of stone portals and world modifiers

[long anvil]

(Aboms did help, to give credit where due)

[languid ibex]

I also enjoy looking for shacks to repair, so I can turn them into quick little outposts.

[safe dove]

The problem with that is how far into the game it is. Also you can only use copper for vertical support. That and iron has used in a good deal of equipment.

[safe dove]

Actual god-sends

[rose swan]

Is there really that much gear post-swamp that requires iron? I know about the plains armor set.

[safe dove]

Mistlands

[languid ibex]

I never find they grow old fast myself, plenty of unique POIs, variation in starred enemies, surprises from above and below, and the debuff is something I hardly ever notice. I've gotten really good at navigating the swamps though, my first time I was fairly annoyed with the debuff.

[long anvil]

my favorite mistlands weapon takes a bunch of iron (krom)

[lofty field]

That's also my line of thinking, but enabling teleporting everything takes away too much imo. I'd like a tiered system where I would unlock the option to teleport metals after the respective boss has been defeated

[safe dove]

The entire carapace set, mistwalker, the poison axe, the mistlands axe, as well as the mage set.

[rose swan]

Ahhh right. Mistwalker requires iron too, right?

[long anvil]

yeah, but it also gives a ton of iron

[safe dove]

Oh, and krom.

[long anvil]

mistlands, i mean

[short wing]

Oven, stone cutter, lots of weapons in plains and on.

[safe dove]

The crossbow too.

[karmic flax]

You can easily get tons of iron in mistlands

[languid ibex]

I don't see it as a large hurdle, but I've also played games like Ark Survival for 4000 hours, and the metal grind there is quite literally endless.

[safe dove]

Yeah it’s not as bad there.

[rose swan]

Just saying, if the mining skill gave increases chance for finding more ore… 👀

[languid ibex]

Stocking up a longship fully with iron scrap is an exciting feeling for me as well, it gives a bit of Sea of Thieves vibes, where you just hope nothing goes wrong.

[marsh radish]

What exactly do you need guck for? I use it for maybe three things

[rose swan]

Just for a couple light sources I think?

[safe dove]

On one hand I wish things would go wrong, on the other I’m glad they never do since there are no ocean threats. There’s no risk to ocean travel once you’re in a long ship.

[languid ibex]

I use it a lot because I landed on wanting to utilize green banners, they felt like home to me.

[long anvil]

having it stocked for your draugr fang is nice but beyond that i never use it

[long anvil]

the risk is me, i stop for every serpent

but we deserve an ocean update 🤝

[safe dove]

The ocean is the hardest thing to make more interesting in the game without making it overly tedious. Especially since you cross the ocean from the Bronze Age to the Ashlands.

[languid ibex]

Passive whale-like creatures! They're hard to kill in groups, and keep switching positions and speeding up!

No big threat, just would give enough resources to warrant taking you off course.

[karmic flax]

You mean in terms of difficulty?

[rose swan]

You think so? I don’t think it needs much to really spice it up honestly 🤔

[long anvil]

in terms of the right pacing, because its a constant for your entire playthrough

[safe dove]

Absolutely

[karmic flax]

They can just have more things start spawning after boss kills

[long anvil]

that's my preference yeah

[languid ibex]

I wouldn't even mind 1 and 2 starred serpents after certain progression points.

[long anvil]

i think you could build a mini-boss out of that entire idea, too, slowly becoming more aware of the player up to some kind of climax that can lead to the fight

[safe dove]

It has two things. Leviathans, which are useless after you get the harpoon/razor, and serpents that are a complete non-threat once you reach the Iron Age. It doesn’t help that both are someone rare, serpents being a night spawn and leviathans being few and far between. (Note: I think it would be a bad idea to add more of these to the game)

[lofty field]

Question is if the current progression of boats would be enough, 2* serpents make pretty quick work of longboats

[safe dove]

Leviathans are great, and I would want them to honestly be more rare if more was added to the ocean.

[karmic flax]

Uhm akshually, they updated oceans with a new serpent in ashlands

[long anvil]

an ocean update could come with an update to boats too, maybe some method of upgrading them

[languid ibex]

Yeah, I don't think 2* serpents should happen without the Drakkar being available.

[safe dove]

It would be nice if as you progress through the game killing the forsaken more was added to the ocean.

[lofty wave]

but that's the ashlands biome, not ocean biome

[safe dove]

Bait taken

[coral rivet]

Swamp is my favorite biome. The sheer challenge of it makes it fun

[long anvil]

id agree if it were a challenge

im sure its partially just having played so much but at this point for me the swamp just feels like tedium without accomplishment

[safe dove]

Yeah, same. I don’t want the swamps to be more challenging, but I would like if there was more to see.

[languid ibex]

For me there's plenty of challenge, when a 2 star draugr archer wanders over and nails you while you're already fighting a cluster of enemies, you'll get a spike of adrenaline that's for sure.

[long anvil]

they give you three business days to notice them and react

[safe dove]

I’m starting to think this is my 1800+ hours talking, my most common complaint about the game is how I want more POI’s, more plant life. I really wish there were good POI/biome mods. After 1.0 there will be though, I’m sure.

[languid ibex]

I'm not talking about when you notice them of course.

[long anvil]

most of my time looking at mods has been looking at >new world gen >new poi >new enemies

which i guess is probably pretty normal but i think its indicative of what id want if i were asking for more

[languid ibex]

More is a somewhat common thing to ask for when it comes to something you love, I just always have a difficult time opening that floodgate.

[rose swan]

Sorry, I’ll rephrase! I agree that I think the ocean is lacking and could a lot more, I just think a little could go a long ways in terms of making it interesting.

[crimson ermine]

Theres already a good poi mod. AIO adds 141 structures including ports, traders, and buff shrines

However, as an aio user, it totally tanks performance

So before more structures, game needs to load them better

[long anvil]

id settle for it handling MY structures better first tbh

[safe dove]

Understandable. I mostly agree with you.

[languid ibex]

They're also not likely optimized as structures/POIs are by the developers, where modders typically have no idea how to optimize, they just also want more.

[crimson ermine]

Real and valid tbh

[languid ibex]

Before skyrim really started supporting mods, most of the mods created for skyrim were creating massive memory leaks.

[crimson ermine]

The biggest performance problem is world gen. More stuff makes it take longer

[safe dove]

Interesting, but I don’t think that’s what I’m looking for. I want the world to feel alive, but unpopulated, if that makes sense. So much of Valheim’s charm is wandering through a forgotten world! Traders and active ports conflicts with that.

[languid ibex]

That's not so bad then, at least that's just a one time thing.

[crimson ermine]

So world gen would need to be optimized regardless of its a modded structure or not

[crimson ermine]

They are very rare and you can turn them off

[languid ibex]

I play only vanilla, world gen is extremely fast for me on an above average PC.

[royal lily]

The poi mod is very very natural and fun

[crimson ermine]

Yeah, but valheim world gen has some issues with too much stuff, ive had worlds with poi mods take 10x longer or never finish

[languid ibex]

This is an issue created by the mods though, not the game.

[rose swan]

I keep getting PhatTony and ChrisTheMiss mixed up 😂

[languid ibex]

There is no optimizing for content that doesn't come standard.

Only giving mod creators tools to make better mods.

[crimson ermine]

“I dont play with mods” proceeds to talk about the mods like they make them

[languid ibex]

I've plenty of experience, I work in game development, and have supported mods for my games before.

[crimson ermine]

Uh is that good or bad

[long anvil]

skyrim has fundamental problems even the script extender cant solve, and have been an issue on the gamebryo engine for a long long time (as example, the way scripts are actually handled especially in relation to saves)

also skyrim supported mods before the game even released, a trend started by morrowind because they just put out the creation kit for use

tldr its not really comparable to the issues valheim has, which arent even as bad as skyrims

[languid ibex]

I'm aware not to worry. 😅

I wasn't comparing, just putting out a scenario that modders were a part of.

[rose swan]

Neither, I think my mind plays tricks on me and makes me think y’all’s profile pictures are similar

[crimson ermine]

well next month it wont be similar if it will make you feel better

at least mine is changing, obviously no idea about the other person

[peak bronze]

ChrisTony and PhatTheMiss.

[crimson ermine]

i did not consent to this shipping

[peak bronze]

I only presented the mixing up thing.

[rose swan]

ChrisTheMiss makes me think of Mike Tyson trying to say Christmas 🎅

[peak bronze]

https://giphy.com/gifs/tyson-UjCwf8qULpZPa

[crimson ermine]

chris the miss or christ he miss? 🤔

[long anvil]

More stone pieces I am 100% on board for.

[marble sparrow]

I want big logs and their bark attached lol

[stiff stag]

You want something the game naturally doesn't support to begin with, that's entirely a you problem.

[long anvil]

Everything not added to the game is something it doesn't support to begin with.

It's a suggestion channel, not a "have a working knowledge of game design" channel.

[languid ibex]

Ah, I might suggest another way of going about that, what you're suggesting has some complications. Like for example how would you repair it, how would you reliably move it if it were to be given purpose in this way, etc.

You would likely get further requesting some way to utilize those logs as buildable objects.

[rose swan]

I think what Stranded is saying is that it was never intended to use the raw logs as building components. Any challenges that come with trying to use them as such, won’t have any in-game tools or support.

[long anvil]

My response wouldn't change no matter how many ways you reword it.

The functionality isn't there, the guy wants the functionality. Whether I agree with it or not doesn't invalidate it as a suggestion.

[rose swan]

Regardless, I think the suggestion would garner more traction if the proposal was something along the lines of ‘new thicker hardwood/core wood pieces, with a diameter similar to the trees.’ 🤔

[long anvil]

That, I agree with.

[rose swan]

Hmm… on one hand, I don’t care for whips… but I could be Trevor Belmont
#suggestions message

[marble sparrow]

Playing with raids off reduces damage done and they don't take damage from rain and also don't despawn over time. It wouldn't be moved, just a permanent structure. Having them as buildable pieces would be infinitely better though :}

[long anvil]

The rain thing I think can be solved other ways. Alas, it's maps time in FF so I will stop being an oppressive presence o7

[marble sparrow]

Rain thing?

[rose swan]

They probably meant raid 🤔

[marble sparrow]

prob lol

[rose swan]

#suggestions message
Could have a chance to spawn berserkers, make totems easier to farm 🤔

Reminds me, had a thought the other day of how interesting it could be to have some sort of event (think like blood moon event in Terraria) where hordes of undead skeleton Fulings swarmed the plains. Extremely aggressive, perhaps a new variant that is a little faster and duel wields daggers. IDK, just a fun idea.

Might not make sense in vanilla though, I can see how it would be overly complex. Just wanted to share, get the creative juices flowing 🧃

[rose swan]

#suggestions message
@marble sparrow
Wouldn’t you say Crystal is effectively Valheim’s glass? 🤔

[marble sparrow]

I would. I would also say that they are not exactly clear enough for me to enjoy a magnificent view through and that makes me want no crystal windows at all. An artisan level glass would be amazing. I also added more details to my post lol

[marble sparrow]

Fuling skeletons that look like mini Yagluths riding Viles around during a bloodmoon sounds fun... and all of the shamans are Zil & Thungr ^-^ The tar pits spawn Oozer sized Growths and the pale grass changes color to reflect the moon. Only in the Plains though and all loot would automatically go to x2.

The event would be called: 'You need to finish that Darkwood build and save up money to buy eggs' lol

[rose swan]

Gotcha, fair enough on the crystal being a bit thick! Hmm perhaps it would be cool if you could craft refined crystal (effectively, a ‘glassy’ version at the upgraded artisan table? 🤔
Could be interesting, similar to the ceramic plate recipe, and gives a little more functionality to the artisan table 🤷🏼‍♂️

[marble sparrow]

That's a fantastic idea :)

@north rock I gotta know what kinds of suggestions you upvote lol

[rose swan]

He’s muted and cannot respond

[karmic flax]

@marble sparrow

[coral rivet]

@sage crest What is a lava lizard?

[crimson ermine]

sounds modded

[rose swan]

He’s probably talking about Asksvin 🤔

[coral rivet]

Ohhh okay

[long anvil]

i mean, people forget names

[sage crest]

Asksvin, the big necks in the Ashlands

[coral rivet]

Oh okay, I didn't know that the younglings are affected by water like that :0

[languid ibex]

@sage crest It's because the water is boiling.

[sage crest]

It’s ok, ya it’s kinda weird but they take slow overtime damage while wet, but the lava blobs have no problem swimming

[sage crest]

Well water boils as a result of being hot, and lava is WAY hotter than that. Sorry I don’t mean to sound condescending, but it shouldn’t just be because it’s water being the reason that they take damage

[languid ibex]

They can walk on lava, that's just their feet, I'm sure if they're submerged in lava it might be a different story.

[sage crest]

I also forgot to mention it doesn’t matter whether it’s boiling or not, the baby asksvin take damage as soon as they have the wet effect.

[languid ibex]

That sounds like an oversight and better suited to a bug report to me.

[sage crest]

But it just doesn’t make sense how lizards can take damage in water, in union with the fact that lava can be just fine in water.

[languid ibex]

I think you might be reading too far into this personally, it doesn't make sense that deer can swim forever, but in Valheim they do.

Interesting catch with the wet Asksvin though.

[marble sparrow]

Sorry about that :c

[rose swan]

Can always just generically ask for feedback regarding a specific suggestion

[sage crest]

I don’t really see how I could be over examining this, but I guess it’s just one of those things that are passed off as “it’s a fantasy game it’s fine”

[proper sequoia]

@sage flax that's what the trollstav is for

Basically anyway

[sage flax]

ik but taming them will make a good challenge and fun to have them all the time

think about it training trolls and making armor for them ofc it will cost a lot of ingot to make armor for them and leather etc. but the progress will be something new and fresh

[proper sequoia]

I mean that sounds good and all but than people will say make armor for askvin, than make armor for lox or wolves

The devs are slow enough anyway it will take them a year or two to add even add armor for animals

[sage flax]

true

[proper sequoia]

As long as they finish Deep North in like the next 6 months they can do what they want

[eternal wyvern]

#suggestions message what does this even mean?

How to cheer something that’s dead

[long anvil]

theres a reason moder drops tears

[eternal wyvern]

Yeah.. when she dies

[long anvil]

i mean if you wanna be petty about what was obviously a joke, on account of it being a fictional character without feelings

youre already dead in the setting, too, but still doing things

[royal lily]

Maybe Moder wouldnt be so sad if Fader was around :/

[crimson ermine]

maybe moder just needs some family time with her sons. ALL of her sons

[spiral ice]

Maybe her sons just need a strong father figure to steer them in the right direction.

[cedar slate]

it's kind of disheartening when people downvote or recycle suggestion without saying what's wrong with it

even worse when a suggestion has no way to impact them negatively

[wintry bobcat]

For recycle reactions the reason is pretty obvious.

For downvote you can always ask in here if you're curious, and if people want they can respond. If it's a suggestion with a lot of recycles too though, people might not want to discuss it if its been discussed 100 times before

[wintry bobcat]

I challenge you to find a single suggestion that won't in some way impact someone negatively

[cedar slate]

how is recycle obvious?

[cedar slate]

majority of them won't affect people negatively yet there's about 50% downvotes in general

[wintry bobcat]

Commonly known on the server that recycle means its been suggested before

So any question with a lot of those reactions is because people have seen the same or a very similar suggestion before

I agree though it might not be obvious if you're new, but once you know what it means there's only one meaning

[cedar slate]

my impression was that it's somewhat of a trash bin

i see, didn't notice it in pins

[wintry bobcat]

imo that's kind of shallow thinking. Seems to me like you look at a suggestion and how it wouldn't impact you negatively, but not considering the concerns others might have

Like you might say "add wolf armor" doesn't impact anyone negatively because they could just not use it. But it still clutters the game and menus to have wolf armor as an option, it eats up dev time to make, if playing multiplayer others might use wolves to kill everything because they're so strong now that they have armor and its runining the persons experience, etc.

[cedar slate]

i agree with the clutter which is a fair option but this could be avoided in general if there was any sorting in the UI.
As about devs time, this is very sensitive thing. There isn't any idea that somebody else wouldn't find as - not important for me right now. I want devs to prioritize something else. Very selfish reaction imo and very subjective. Devs are the ones who should decide what they can spare their time on and what suits their vision.
It's not apparent with the downvotes whether the reason for it is the last option or because the idea is bad, wouldn't fit the theme etc.

[cedar slate]

it's not possible to think of every single angle when suggesting something. And to make it so would require direct feedback so should be taken as a general idea that can use fleshing out, which should be apparent.

[gleaming valley]

krom have you tried zooming in all the way while sailing? it does get pretty first persony and you can see under the sail. i didnt downvote but i like not having perfect view from the back, fond memories of being at the front yelling for rocks or land or snakes to whoever was driving

[cedar slate]

yes i tried that, the view is from behind-above characters head and the view isn't good.

the low edge of the sail is so low that max zoom doesn't cut it

depending on the position of the sail, if wind is directly from behind then can see the sail only

[gleaming valley]

i guess i do change to half mast quick sometimes to peek, and ya its not like “im a boat” vision, but. idk im weird i like having to run to the helm to see well

[karmic flax]

it's obvious cause it's explained in the pins

[cedar slate]

"20 degrees to the left, captain!"

[cedar slate]

#suggestion-discussion message

[wintry bobcat]

Agreed. And I think people's criteria for upvoting, downvoting, and recycling is gonna vary a bit. Generally though most the feedback I see on here is pretty justified

If it helps, I think devs don't care much about upvotes or downvotes. They'll take an idea if they like it, and won't if they don't / it's too troublesome to implement

[short wing]

Exactly. Suggestions that were wildly wanted haven't or won't make it in game. While other's that had many downvotes have made it in game.
Though if it is because of the suggestion or if the devs were working on it before it got suggested is only clear to them.

[gleaming valley]

yeah literally lol. ive been like ROCK left a little! then you got another on snake alert, good times. when you can just cycle through perspectives all that fun is gone

[cedar slate]

it's just kind of disheartening, i might get past that point though

[cedar slate]

that reminds me of subnautica cyclops, although that's a single player game and player is piloting a craft that requires 3 people

[analog moss]

Valheim was also designed with a SP focus. It allows co-op MP though.

[short wing]

Sometimes downvotes happen because of how a suggestion was worded or multiple suggestions thrown into one suggestion.

I've seen suggestions that basically say the same but in other words get totally different reactions.

A good suggestion that has another bad suggestion woven in might get downvotes because you can only cast a vote on the whole and people would rather the bad suggestion doesn't get implemented than the both do get implemented.

Each day there are a lot of suggestions and I for one might skim and cast some votes on a bunch but I don't feel like explaining all the votes I cast in the few minutes I take to vote.

[wintry bobcat]

I do see quite a bit of suggestions get downvoted for lack of clarity. Though I think people on here usually do ask the person to clarify / explain what they're suggesting

[languid ibex]

No? My point is that it's more along the lines of-- it's a video game, and not everything is based in realism. I didn't say deer swim forever because it's a fantasy game.

Similar things could be said about swamp blobs or even growths, where tar solidifies in sub room temperatures.

[safe dove]

Honestly I wouldn’t be shocked if some people downvote because they think it will take development time away from the things they want added to the game. But that’s just what comes to my mind as a naturally petty person myself.

[languid ibex]

Anyone's reasoning is valid, you are just getting community reactions, there's not exactly guidelines for how to take suggestions in.

[safe dove]

True true.

https://tenor.com/view/true-truth-nuke-squidward-mr-krabs-rock-gif-9714276628674837375

[sage crest]

You’re comparing tar to lava? 😂 the difference between tar and room temperature is nothing compared to water and lava, and besides you literally just did what I said, “it’s fine it’s a fantasy game”

[languid ibex]

I'm comparing what happens to these materials in different temperatures. Tar solidifies just as lava would in different temperatures.

I never mentioned fantasy game once, not sure where you're pulling that from.

[runic plover]

You did, technically.

[languid ibex]

Where? When I mentioned that's not what I said? 🤦

[runic plover]

Look at the last 4 words of the post I replied to.

[languid ibex]

Sir, this is me saying that's not what I said.

[sage crest]

Ok I see what you’re saying.
But my original argument is that, asksvin are outstanding in the sense that the babies take damage in water. If they do, then it would make sense for other things to take damage in certain instances, ESPECIALLY lava blobs, that seems like the most logical case of something taking damage in a certain environment. But it doesn’t. Just an inconsistency of things that I think could be changed. Either the asksvin stop taking damage or the lava blobs start dying in water, just something to make the current rules more consistent.

I’m sorry I didn’t mean for this to blow out of proportion and I apologize for sounding rude a few messages ago.

[languid ibex]

Oh I totally understand, I could just see a myriad of reasons for this, where lava blobs don't have very fast movement, they could easily be cheesed into water and die, and Asksvin aren't typically near the shore with far higher health than a Lava Blob.

Admittedly, it could all just be an oversight, and this is all just how I feel about it!

[runic plover]

Personally, if lava blobs did take damage from water (which I think is sensible) and players found out about it, I think they should be rewarded for finding a counter to an otherwise very bothersome enemy.

[languid ibex]

I think there's quite a few ways to counter them already, you can one shot them from a stealth position, so as soon as you see one, firing off an arrow will solve your problem.

I'm not against that being a counter anyways, just attempting to understand why it might be intentional.

[sage crest]

I understand it would be better for inconsistency in order to balance things in some way

[rose swan]

Don’t think lava blobs have ever given me trouble 🤔 they just kinda blow up and I simply walk away. When I first played Ashlands, I actually thought they were bugged and couldn’t deal damage to players haha

My take is that if water kills them immediately, might just be a fun little discovery for the player that doesn’t detract from the enemy much.

Always funny when enemies or even bosses have unique interactions with stuff like that

[languid ibex]

Ultimately I agree, I'd even made a suggestion not too dissimilar from that interaction just a couple days ago.
#suggestions message

[rose swan]

Yeah I think this would be super cool 👀

[languid ibex]

I do as well, turn Ashlands material overflow into materials sunk into commonly used arrows right?

[long anvil]

#suggestions message

very big fan of this, think its been suggested in the distant past (or maybe sooner idk i dont really search) but im still a big supporter of it

[languid ibex]

I believe Smiffe has spoken on this, where it isn't meant to communicate how wet you are, just that you're wet.

[royal lily]

How much wet is one water per unit cubed

[languid ibex]

2 minutes worth.

[long anvil]

im sure he has, im allowed to disagree with the assessment though

like, the timer already ticks down - there is some suspension of disbelief no matter how you cut it, all the change does is make it feel intuitive in both directions, and this punishes you less for making a run from building to building in, say, a town youve made

[languid ibex]

I'm not saying you can't disagree, just communicating what Smiffe has mentioned before.

Value that as much as you like.

[runic plover]

I must agree that walking into the rain for 2 seconds making you just as wet as fully submerging yourself in the ocean is a little silly. I've actually thought about making that exact suggestion myself.

[crimson ermine]

ill give it... $6.70 max

incoming new stat "wet resist"

[royal lily]

The time frame of not-saturated would be really small

[languid ibex]

It could be viewed the other way though, where swimming in the ocean should warrant a bigger timer.

[long anvil]

i mean im also down for that, the change fundamentally allows for a framework where that feels appropriate

[runic plover]

If I was building the system, diving into the ocean is immediate 2-minute timer, while going out in the rain ticks up toward that 2-minute timer the longer you're in it, scaling faster in a storm.

[long anvil]

being fully submerged definitely is a type of wet rain cant really achieve in full gear

[languid ibex]

Absolutely, so for me, a simple middle ground is just fine, it still will illicit the worry of becoming wet, but also never becoming too much of a pain.

[long anvil]

im in my sop era

[royal lily]

Incoming Moistometer that lasts for 7.5 seconds while in rain

[crimson ermine]

get a wetness bar like the ashlands heat bar and when it fills up, you get wet. make it like difference between swimming in ashlands water and nose diving into the lava fields

[languid ibex]

I wouldn't mind this one bit, it's a later mechanic that could be used to retroactively rework older mechanics!

[crimson ermine]

ashlands heat meter ui when?

[royal lily]

Add a fatigue bar too that works in contrast to being rested. The more you use stamina, the higher your fatigue bar becomes until you rest

[crimson ermine]

valheim? more like barheim

[languid ibex]

Yeah, it'd surely be handy in the mountains/deep north for the other harsh climates as well.

The stealth light meter is already well made, perhaps just place it around there

[crimson ermine]

more ui is almost always good imo

clock ui when?

[royal lily]

||theres a mod for that||

[crimson ermine]

more than one

[lofty wave]

neck meter that makes all traders and enemies angrier as you kill more

[crimson ermine]

damn near every ui mod has it, plus some stand alone

[languid ibex]

I just want a sun stone to view the sun's position/cast shadows through fog/mist/swamp's light shroud.

A clock feels a bit too easy for me.

[long anvil]

i dont really want a clock ui vanilla, but if we get it can it be a sundial and a moondial

[crimson ermine]

sundial would be sick

new decoration is always a good idea

[royal lily]

Still waiting for 1x1 dvergr wall

[crimson ermine]

1x1 grausten wall when????????

also would be cool if the ashwood floor texture wouldnt fade out when its like 5 m away

[languid ibex]

Oh that might be worth reporting in the bug section if it's inconsistent with other floor distance rendering.

[crimson ermine]

the ashwood floor just loses its front texture when you get slightly away from it which sucks cuz its texture is really cool. other floors dont

[languid ibex]

Yeah, that sounds unintentional to me.

The texture might be a higher res for all I know, but that doesn't sound right.

[crimson ermine]

i asked someone if it was something that happened to them, apparently its just a vanilla feature

i would get a video but cant login valheim atm so 😔

[languid ibex]

Not to worry! I can report this myself if you like?

[crimson ermine]

Thats fine

[languid ibex]

Alright, I'll credit you of course. 👍

[crimson ermine]

Thank you ❤️

[formal matrix]

My best guess is your lod distance, but it could be possible the ash floor is more sensitive than other models?

[stiff stag]

#suggestions message Normal roof pieces wouldn't function as proper roofing if they are flat because they can't wick water away without a proper angle. So naturally such a thing would function no different from the flat floor pieces we already have.

[cedar slate]

#suggestions message @broken belfry I do mind this suggestion a lot as it would break my immersion. Reeling spear back with a rope is impractical. You'd have to hold the rope all the time with other hand so it doesn't get tangled when throwing and then it would get tangled on any foliage when pulling it back. If it was in any way practical as a design then people would be using it all the time in history. There is magic already in game so if you want magical abilities why not just use those.

This is discussion channel you can use actual arguments here @marsh radish but ok whatever you feel

[marsh radish]

I know. I don't feel like debating. But a quick google search will show you that people have used spears with ropes attached for thousands of years. Try spear fishing, pole spears with float lines, rope darts , and ofc the harpoon.

Furthermore it's not impractical and would not get tangled in everything. It's a straight rope with a heavy weight. Big logs maybe but most light brush you could easily pull it through

[broken belfry]

I disagree. Valheim already prioritizes fun gameplay and stylized mechanics over strict realism. We can carry hundreds of kilos of ore, parry trolls with shields, eat giant serpent stew for superhuman vigor, and use literal magic, a rope-tethered spear honestly fits fine within the game’s world.

Also, rope spears and retrieval lines did exist historically in different forms, especially with harpoons, hunting spears, and naval weapons. The idea isn’t meant to be a perfectly realistic military formation weapon, it’s meant to make spears feel more unique and satisfying mechanically.

And the foliage/tangling issue could easily just be abstracted the same way the game abstracts dozens of other realistic limitations. By that logic, building a furnace should take days instead of instantly placing and carts should flip over every rock.

The main appeal is gameplay identity and gives spears a much more distinct role compared to just “stab weapon" with an extremely bad feeling secondary attack.

[cedar slate]

All of those were used in a pretty different scenario so no. Google search wouldn't reveal that.

[broken belfry]

in the ashlands, i dont even bother using the throw on my splitnir because running in like that is very, very stupid

[marsh radish]

Regardless I don't care about specifics. I love the idea, might tempt me to actually use spears considering I've never crafted one past a flint spear. I like the idea and your arguments are not convincing

[broken belfry]

pretty much guarantees i instantly die

[languid ibex]

I've always wanted a spear crafted with eitr that just returns to your hand on hit.

[broken belfry]

that is also a good idea

[languid ibex]

Summon it back like thor's hammer vibes

[marsh radish]

Also it wouldn't concern your immersion bc he said SOME spears, not change every spear in the game to be retractable. You don't have to craft the retractable ones. Also this has been suggested half a dozen times so plenty of people want it

[cedar slate]

Yes, games use many different ways to abstract many things. Can't do everything realistically and have to give in some ways. This game is centered a lot about combat and a rope going around a tree or bush when pulling a spear in is pretty much an issue even visually. It could be abstracted with a magical 'come to my hand' if anything. Using realistic arguments on something completely unrealistic is likely the issue I have with this. I agree that it's a bummer if you lose weapon cause of this but it adds to the immersion, that is use the spear only when you can retrieve it.

[broken belfry]

i think only the higher tier weapons would make sense for them, like from the wolf spear onwards

[broken belfry]

its not unrealistic, why does one weapon class have to be restricted by a horrible secondary attack that makes you literally throw your weapon away and risk dying to retrieve it when i can carry a weapon like demolisher without using the entire stamina bar to swing it once, there is no immersion there man, its just a really bad mechanic that needs to be improved

[cedar slate]

Fair enough, didn't notice 'some' in there

[broken belfry]

a skilled viking can do anything with the strength of the gods behind him

[cedar slate]

Demolisher and similar are clear fantasy weapons, I don't expect any behavior from them.

[broken belfry]

then why expect realistic behavior from a spear enchanted with lightning

you cannot contradict yourself my friend, you must be resolute in what you believe, one part of the game is immersion breaking and you ignore it but the other part is somewhat realistic and you focus on it

[wanton atlas]

@spiral ice dont report bugs on the suggestion channel. And it's a known issue 🥲

[cedar slate]

You said some and didn't specify which. You also mentioned rope, which is pretty much unneeded with a lightning spear. Why take half measures when doing something unrealistic already

[broken belfry]

i said chain or rope

[broken belfry]

why did you disagree?

[cedar slate]

Btw immersion breaking doesn't equal realistic. Game world is following certain logic and has some rules that it follows. And attaching a rope to a spear is has several issues, is unneeded and imo pretty dumb with all the foliage, tree and enemies around. So yeah I explained why it ruins my immersion

[broken belfry]

the word spear has 165 results in suggestions alone, its clear the weapon needs to be reworked

[broken belfry]

thats fine and all but you are one person, thank you for your disagreement, just because your immersion is broken does not invalidate my immersion of wanting a tether to the spear so i can actually enjoy using my favourite weapon class.

[wintry bobcat]

Maybe more clear players want it reworked

Though players don’t ALWAYS want what’s best for them

[cedar slate]

What you want is quality of life feature, this has nothing to do with immersion. You are ofc free to wish what you want for

[broken belfry]

??? how?

you are complaining a tether is immersion breaking, i am saying a tether would help me feel more immersed in the weapon class

there are no rules in what we percieve as immersion, i like the spear and i want it to be a good weapon class, but its secondary feels horrifically bad to use.

unless what you're actually suggesting is that my percieved wants are invalidated?

you're also focusing on one part of my suggestion, there is the second spear lodging part where ive added realism to it.

[wintry bobcat]

Doesn’t sound to me like you want spear to be good, you just want it to have a different function

Which is fair, though personally I don’t love that gameplay loop

[broken belfry]

the different function will make the spear good.

[wintry bobcat]

Probably. But the current function is also quite good if used right

[broken belfry]

nope, there is no using it right, in a game of complete fantasy the spear is the one weapon class that is both restricted to one single attack pattern and a secondary attack that literally disables you from using the weapon.

[wintry bobcat]

I’d argue spears currently are in the… top three melee weapons. Though Thats a personal preference tierlist

Atgeirs are broken, fists are very good but limited options for making them, spears are right below that

[broken belfry]

how so? explain why they're good, without talking about the primal, thundering and blood versions of splitnir

just the spear class alone with nothing added to it, explain why they're good

[wintry bobcat]

IMO the single stab is an advantage, and I don’t see how the secondary prevents you from using it

It’s coded very smoothly to where you can throw the spear as you run towards an enemy, and as you reach them it instantly picks it up and equips it (with no delay or slowdown) to allow you to follow up with primaries (or more secondaries if you want)

Very cool throwing spear to stagger then following up with a barrage of primary attacks (which will probably stager lock since spear is more front-loaded on damage than other weapons due to the lack of a combo)

[languid ibex]

It seems a little odd to argue so adamantly against such a thing with Abyssal Harpoon being exactly this, it'd just be upgraded versions or potentially serve different functions.

Which is classed as a spear weapon.

[broken belfry]

the throw and run towards is fine and all for easier mobs but it does not work at all in harder areas like the mist/ashlands

at any given point you are running towards multiple enemies

[wintry bobcat]

Their only major downside imo is just that they're pierce damage which is rough against some enemies.

Spears:

• Do high damage, often times letting you stagger smaller enemies like greydwarves or fulings with one hit
• Attack quickly and dont depend on a 3 hit combo, allowing you high dps while also letting you get a bit greedy with the # of attacks before needing to dodge or parry to avoid an attack
• Level INSANELY quickly. They for some reason get more xp per hit than any other melee weapon, which paired with fast attacks gives quick levels
• Has a small attack area which can be seen as a downside because it doesn't hit many enemies at once, but I kinda like it because it doesn't split damage on walls inside dungeons or near trees/rocks
• Can be thrown as an extra utility. Does pretty high damage honestly, though it won't compete with a bow build except in early game
• Spears are usually cheap af to craft and upgrade. Just compare fang spear and silver sword

[languid ibex]

Some players are literally gods with spears, both throwing and chaining attacks.

[wintry bobcat]

Works great for me im mistlands. Haven’t used one in Ashlands

Also it’s a decent ranged option too if you have 2-3 spears

[broken belfry]

you are saying their passive pros, which are true but don't hit on anything im personally complaining about

[wintry bobcat]

What are you personally complaining about?

[broken belfry]

the throw alone.

the secondary attack needs to be fixed or altered.

[wintry bobcat]

But what about it

[languid ibex]

What's wrong with it

[wintry bobcat]

All I’ve seen is “it disables you from using the weapon” which as stated above isnt the case if used as intended

[proper sequoia]

@broken belfry love the spear idea but I think it might a bit complex for the valheim combat system although I am all for it

[broken belfry]

the damage alone is not good enough outside of sneak attacks to justify disabling the use of the weapon, in an actual combat moment with multiple mobs, you are basically restricted to spamming the single attack pattern, all the other weapons outside the 2h hammers have secondary attacks that let you switch up the gameplay so you can get out of a bad moment, but the spear literally makes you helpless outside of just dodging or jumping to escape attacks, i understand people use other weapons alongside the spear, i do as well, but that is not the importance of this argument i am making, each class needs to feel complete and well rounded so you can feel strong with it alone, otherwise its just being lazy.

the spear functionally becomes useless in harder difficulty worlds.

[proper sequoia]

Yeah spears are much weaker than other classes sadly

[languid ibex]

Are you not using a shield with the spear? One of the better parts of spears is their combat flexibility, add a shield to that equation and you're working with some seriously good options.

[wintry bobcat]

I understand feeling frustrated with spears, theyre a very different play style and can be hard to learn

Though I don’t personally think that warrants changing them. Theyre still a powerful weapon and it’s quirks are making it unique from other weapons

[proper sequoia]

Everything can be a "powerful weapon" depending on the user

That doesn't mean it isn't a weaker weapon on average than per say a sword or a club

Give 100 players the 3 weapons and the sword and club users will outperform the spear users on average

[wintry bobcat]

Agreed, I actually think the devs did very well balancing the weapons to be all viable (there’s a few weapons that are OP imo, but none that are extraordinarily weak)

It’s all up to play style

[languid ibex]

I don't think they're necessarily comparing it, just that it has the potential to be one of the best in the right hands.

[proper sequoia]

Thunering Berserker Axes staring down on everyone from its throne

[languid ibex]

I wish I could source some of the crazy spear fighting clips that have been shared here over the years.

[proper sequoia]

Your average valheim player sadly won't tap that potential

[wintry bobcat]

Eh axes are fine imo

I was more thinking atgeir, bow, and several magic staves

[broken belfry]

people like that are the outliar, not the average, its not really fair to compare me to some guy who plays like a maniac with a spear

[languid ibex]

That's fine, it's sword & shield for them.

[broken belfry]

that is also not fair, all weapons should be useable for everyone

[proper sequoia]

It's usable just that there are better options

[languid ibex]

They are, and players can strive to go beyond average, I'm mostly agreeing that the average player won't put in that work.

[broken belfry]

not really, if you're not great at the game the spear becomes basically a death sentence in harder biomes

[proper sequoia]

Get a shield and spear, you can still manage although not against bosses

[crimson ermine]

please, just stop arguing with them. this is a losing argument and it isnt even your fault

[wintry bobcat]

Personally I disagree. No need to lower skill ceiling or complexity just because some people are less experienced with different play styles

There’s options for everyone, if something doesn’t suit you, you can learn how to use it or choose not to use it

[proper sequoia]

the fact that hte last 4/5 bosses are resistant/very resistant against pierce hurts the spear a lot

[languid ibex]

I think both sides are making great points here, no need to harsh the discussion. 👀

[broken belfry]

that is not fair either, someone bad at the game loves the idea of spears but is bad at them because the class is tricky to use, why should he then be forced to go a sword or club

[proper sequoia]

This ain't an argument, it's a discussion

[wintry bobcat]

Agreed

[proper sequoia]

I think pierce in general struggles because too many things are resistant against it and the spear which fully does pierce hurts from this a lot

At least bow has other varietons and the last atgeir does lightning damage + secondary carrying the atgeir

[broken belfry]

i think in general the spear needs a rework and maybe a two hit combo instead of the single attack animation and pierce in general needs some help, hopefully next biome wont be so bad for it

[languid ibex]

Very true, and I would not personally recommend a spear only run for this reason alone, but I think this falls into the category that bows do, where ranged weapons just aren't great for main event fights.

[proper sequoia]

Hopefully a combo

[languid ibex]

One of spear's strengths is not having a combo

[proper sequoia]

I heard people using bows against bonemass and I just imagined how long that would take with swamp arrows

[languid ibex]

You can stop attack flow at any moment.

[broken belfry]

its really not a strength man, have you actually looked at the attack animation? its quite ugly

[languid ibex]

About 3 in-game days 😅

[proper sequoia]

Another big factor tho is spear levels up significantly faster than other weapons

[languid ibex]

The visuals of the attack has zero bearing on how strong it is... 👀

[broken belfry]

meanwhile the ocean

[languid ibex]

One parry = 3-5 spear strikes on 90% of enemies.

[broken belfry]

i think its important for the spear to be visually nice in action

[languid ibex]

Hardly any risk involved with such a quick attack speed.

[proper sequoia]

Ashland enemies fight so much with each other they got used to being staggered

[languid ibex]

Morgen stagger is such a pain 😬

[ember lily]

I fought him with a bow on my first playthrough because I was rlly bad at the game, it took so long and was no fun at all

[lofty wave]

spears could only throw in alpha versions before secondary attacks were added, that’s why they’re held backwards

[proper sequoia]

Morgen just a crashout fr

Got that energized kid personality

[broken belfry]

that one dev smiffe said no to my suggestion, so that probably just tells me the sentiment devs have for the spear class

very uncool but oh well

[proper sequoia]

No offense to the devs but they don't want to change much in particular

They are happy with their current version of the game mostly

[lofty wave]

all I want changed with spears is other players auto-picking them from the ground

[broken belfry]

im guessing its a funding issue? game thats been in development for as long as valheim, the sales have probably dried up

[proper sequoia]

They are a very small team so I doubt it

[languid ibex]

Smiffe has admitted to not being aligned with what all developers want, so it's not a deciding factor to have a Smiffe downvote, though it is the best indication we have. 😅

[broken belfry]

i think we can all agree the spear needs improvements, what they could be are interesting to think about

[proper sequoia]

Maybe make it so you have to create a rope sepereatly which can be attached to the spear so you can summon it back every time you throw it?

And each new spear would need a new rope of that biome

[broken belfry]

if there was no rope but there was the spear lodging effect, id be okay with that

so you ran up and had to yank it out of the enemy

[proper sequoia]

What if it just doesn't hit the enemy and flies off a mountain?

[broken belfry]

then goodbye spear

[proper sequoia]

😭

[broken belfry]

never find it again kekw

[languid ibex]

Odin's spear, the tip is a raven's head with folded wings, and it flies back to you on contact.

[broken belfry]

a spear weapon like um, whats it called dweveger or whatever where you had to find it that flies back to you on contact would be neat

[wintry bobcat]

I wouldn’t say theyre forced to.

Spear is a tad more complex than other weapons but I don’t think it’s much. It’s just a very different play style than others so it takes some getting used to. People also had to learn how to use the mace play style for the first time, whether it was while playing Valheim or another game and having the skill be transferable. I don’t think it’s hard to learn the spear play style, if you actually want to play with that combat rhythm

I recognize some of my views on the game are skewed because I (personally) consider myself a high skill player and play with a lot of high difficulty and challenges and such, but I also started out as a terrible player. When I was new me and my 2 friends died to the same troll 10 times before deciding to surrender our base to it and go somewhere else. I started out thinking spears were terrible too, but after giving them a good chance I found they were actually really good and a refreshing difference from the other weapons

Sorry for the long rant

[broken belfry]

did you find the troll again later?

did you SLAUGHTER HIM in the name of ODIN

[wintry bobcat]

Gotta practice your throws and only throw at stationary dragons or wolves not at the edge of a cliff

I only use spears for my ranged option in mountains and it works great

Most would prob prefer to just not throw it in mountains though out of fear

[proper sequoia]

I think tho the main issue of the spear is that it's just overclassed by the other weapons

A bow is better for a ranged options and a sword + club are better melee

Also most people don't think the spear is cool in the first place as well...

Sadly so

[languid ibex]

I think it's fair to say that from just a base comparison for sure, but the utility goes well beyond ranged and melee for spears.

[broken belfry]

yes, i agree, the sword, mace, atgeir, greatsword, dagger, axe and greataxe weapons are much, much better

[proper sequoia]

True but your average player doesn't see that

[broken belfry]

the greatmace/hammer needs a rework as well

[crimson ermine]

#suggestions message whats a path? sounds modded

[broken belfry]

its really quite bad

[wintry bobcat]

Honestly, I don’t remember

But I remember right before it showed up, I jumped in the chimney on my friends house (against his warning), got trapped, and burned alive 😅

[broken belfry]

i think the spear was designed as a hybrid weapon but then it just suffers from hybrid tax

[proper sequoia]

If they added a horse to Valheim I am instantly equipping that flametal spear and slaughtering skeletons

[broken belfry]

suffering

[proper sequoia]

Hyprid tax is indeed brutal

[broken belfry]

i will find the next troll in my world and sacrifice his soul to odin in honor of your first base, snail

[proper sequoia]

Is it just me that finds it obligatory to slaughter any troll I see

Like I have over 200+ troll hide yet I still go into the cave and kill the guy with one sword poke

[broken belfry]

im trying to enslave one, i want to trap it and use it as my pet

[proper sequoia]

Troll racism shall not be tolerated

Pay him 1 rotten meat per week as pay and now you have an employee

[broken belfry]

ill pay him 1 troll trophy per week

have to eat the skulls of his own kin to survive

[proper sequoia]

remind me not to piss you off

[broken belfry]

[coral rivet]

#suggestions message
I want to clarify on behalf of King Hrothgar:
the "pathen" option on the hoe can contain a flag-toggle, that when turned on, its usage would sketch a skinny trail that appears on the large map "m". It is meant to add charm to the map, as you explore its wonders (like roads in between PoIs)

[marsh radish]

Dang no wonder you died and got sent to valheim 😂

[languid ibex]

#suggestion-discussion message
I would be all for pathing on the map if this weren't the case. Unfortunately it seems that marking or markings cause significant lag when using the map.

I would love if we could just open the map in an editor to edit the map png itself.

[marsh radish]

What I really wish was that elevated terrain itself showed on the map. Like tall ridges are darker and have triangles

[wintry bobcat]

@willow tulip what would you suggest? I haven't used bonemass in a while so I'm not an expert, but from my understanding it's currently pretty good at mitigating big hits of damage, but not as good when it comes to a lot of smaller hits. So would you suggest something like it mitigates 25% damage or x amount damage, whichever is higher?

Like if you get hit for 100, it takes either 25% (25) off, or it takes 5 off. 25 is higher, so 25 damage reduction

If you get hit for 10 damage, it takes either 25% (2.5) off, or it takes 5 off. 5 is higher, so 5 damage reduction

Just trying to understand. Bonemass power damage reduction in its current state has always been a bit confusing to me anyways

[languid ibex]

Bonemass + Iron Brooch makes me functionally invincibile title card

[willow tulip]

I have no idea how Bonemass works, tbh. I'm not a numbers guy. I just know that it in its current state it is WAY too weak. And I use Iron Brooch as well, it rarely triggers.

[languid ibex]

Rarely triggers for you, I have no issues chaining it constantly in combat.

Really can't see a way to agreeing with that take.

[broken belfry]

keep in mind bonemass is meant to be a blocking power, it makes blocking INSANELY better

[willow tulip]

I have no idea how you do that. Even killing large groups of enemies make it trigger rarely.

[broken belfry]

bonemass + evasion trinket + flametal tower shield makes you invincible with decent block skill

[willow tulip]

Well, that's nice and dandy, but I also need it to protect me when I'm hit, while trying to hit another mob.

[languid ibex]

Siginificant performance tanking is relevant and looks bad, no one wants to have their map drop their frames and make interacting with it a slog.

[broken belfry]

thats what your armor is for my friend

[willow tulip]

And it doesn't protect me.

[broken belfry]

😭

[willow tulip]

Not enough.

[coral rivet]

I reread your message now, I understand. Thanks.

[languid ibex]

Not to worry. 🫡

[willow tulip]

Again, the situation that spawned this problem was a tight mine corridor with two one-star seekers.

[wanton atlas]

to the bug report? or ?

[broken belfry]

to my suggestion

[willow tulip]

The one star seekers literally obliterated me. When I was trying to hit one of them, the other hit me, taking half of my health.

[lofty wave]

maybe bonemass power could increase your mass which would make you take less knockback and have the utility of making carts easier to pull

[willow tulip]

That was with Bonemass turned ON.

[languid ibex]

Sounds like the problem was situational, and less of a design flaw.

[wanton atlas]

which one?

[broken belfry]

whats your armor and what food do you have eaten while fighting them?

[broken belfry]

my spear one, sir

[proper sequoia]

Evastion trinket works much better with bucklers

[willow tulip]

BM lvl 3 armor and I had about 180 health.

[proper sequoia]

You can parry and kill Lord Reto withe evasion mantle + carapece buckler

[broken belfry]

id suggest trying to be clever with seekers instead of taking them head on, they're a mob that will overwhelm directly attacking

[wanton atlas]

3 reasons.

• It's just another version of the "return spear" mechanic, which I don't like and don't see the point of.
• A rope on a spear is a harpoon.
• it would break my immersion of the game how things works

[willow tulip]

You can do that outside when you have the space, but not directly in the entrance of a mine.

[broken belfry]

do you think spear needs to be changed in a way? its much weaker compared to the other weapon types.

[proper sequoia]

If you are in entracne than run back and leave the mine lol

If you don't want to fight something than run, if you can't run away than you just chose a bad fight

[broken belfry]

yes, that is quite the conundrum, the way i did it was spamming bombs, i just made like a stack of bombs per mine and spammed them

[willow tulip]

They pushed me outside with 1 health left. I guess that is "leave the mine lol". 😛

I know this game, @Ahmet. I've been playing for five years. I have defeated Fader. I know how to pick my fights.

I have less problems in Ashlands than in Mistlands.

But Bonemass is a specific instrument that is designed to help you combat tougher enemies. It's not doing that anymore.

[proper sequoia]

If you are using full heavy armor + bonemass + tower shield and dying to seekers than you don't know how to play the game then

[willow tulip]

I'm NOT dying to seekers. I'm dying pinned in a corner by two one-star seekers.

I KNOW how to play, thank you very much.

[languid ibex]

I'm sure they play just fine, it just sounds like a bad situation, it happens to the best of them.

[proper sequoia]

bad situations usually occur due to bad desicion making

[languid ibex]

Sure, but not always.

[willow tulip]

Whatever dude.

[proper sequoia]

true

[willow tulip]

I'm sure you play a perfect game and never get hit every time.

[languid ibex]

Some of the best speedrunners in the world have their runs ended by an anomalous encounter they could have never predicted.

[proper sequoia]

Like I said it is possible to just get unlucky

But like in most cases bad situations uccor to bad desicion making, not all but most

[wanton atlas]

spears is one of the strongest and cheapest weapons in the entire game 🤔

[lofty wave]

it would be nice for some enemies to use the new 25% pierce resistance

[broken belfry]

for a lot of the game, you are correct but in the ashlands it really sucks to use them.

[wanton atlas]

no weapon really is "the best" always. and it's intended

[proper sequoia]

Everything is resistant to pierce there, bad place to use it

[wanton atlas]

I usually combo spear/club

or you just perfect perry enemies and then go to town on things with the spear anyhow since it's so fast

[willow tulip]

Ok, Smiffe, what's your opinion on a Bonemass rework?

Bonemass boss power that is.

[wanton atlas]

it's better now

[willow tulip]

*sigh

[wanton atlas]

remember. it was unbalanced since the first versions of valheim

[willow tulip]

I know. I don't want that version, I want a slightly stronger version than what is now.

[wanton atlas]

the philosophy behind them is that they should be a nice compliment, not a must have

so bonemass power when you got it was perfectly fine for mountains and plains

but the next 3 biomes. it's OP

[wanton atlas]

play on easy mode or enable god mode then

[broken belfry]

smiffe will the northlands have a million pierce resist enemies

[willow tulip]

Ok, I see it is useless.

[wanton atlas]

Deep north?

[broken belfry]

yes sir

[proper sequoia]

its not you just dont know how to use it

[wanton atlas]

you'll see 😄

[proper sequoia]

Spear users worse nightmare

[wanton atlas]

I personally use 1 boss power the entire game

[broken belfry]

[willow tulip]

I play the entire game on default and have no difficulty in defeating all enemies.

[wintry bobcat]

Yeah it does suck in Ashlands.

The trick is to not use weapons in situations they're not meant for.

Don't use bare fists against fader

Don't use mace against drakes

Don't use spears against tanky pierce-resistant enemies

(Ok I take back the drake one, it's actually hella fun meleeing drakes)

[wanton atlas]

just use fireball

[broken belfry]

ive seen a guy kill fader with bare fists

[wanton atlas]

problem solved

[willow tulip]

It's only the Queen, which I CANNOT tank any longer!

[wintry bobcat]

Same, it just is less effective. And will suck

[proper sequoia]

Use swords for everything, simple solution😃

[wanton atlas]

my best tactic against the queen is to always dodge roll