suggestion-discussion

[marsh radish]

I could potentially raise earth pillars but I'd have to do a good but of work to make then functional and blend in with the rest of the build

I am just simply annoyed that the only time I think about using spikes I realize they won't work

[stiff stag]

They work just fine if you aren't being lazy or mindless/careless with how you set them up. That's purely a you issue not a problem with the design.

[languid ibex]

Sounds to me like they work a little too well.

[marsh radish]

Oh, is that supposed to offend me :O I shocked at your audacity! 😂 🙄 if you don't agree deal with it ngl

[rose swan]

Wait until you build a ballista

But yeah, spikes are just spikes- they don’t discriminate. I think it would be a bit silly if they didn’t damage you 🤔

[stiff stag]

Well, you can deal with the fact that spike traps damage you and that you're the only one here with an issue.

[fast void]

If you update them with IFF, there would be TooMuchDiscrimination.

[fast void]

You mean Block Trainers? 😉

[tardy knot]

In response to the console commands for dedicated servers, does that not already work if you have yourself white listed by steamID in the admin list of the server files?

[fast void]

I believe the sole non-mod way to use them is if you use your own computer as the host, in which case only you can use them.
Dedicated servers make everyone the client, so no one can use them without mods afaik.

[sonic musk]

Introducing: Valheim 2. Now with greydwarves that ride pigs!

no, the devs will get cybernetic implants and make 'Valheim 2099' which is less of a fictional game and more of a documentary of the year 2099

I play World of Warcraft and I'll have you know there's like, 2 I think. I heard there was 2. Probably

[tardy knot]

Ahh. Yeah come to think of it, I host on my in home server and use the serverdevcommands mod and admin list on the server. No reason the game shouldn't support being able to do that

[fast void]

No reason?
Griefing already happens without command functions.
Now imagine them added.
There's your reason.

[stiff stag]

Gotta love when someone that has no clue what they're talking about tries to claim there's no reason for things to be the way they are.

[tardy knot]

Was in no way shape or form suggesting blanket enabling of console commands for every person on every server. Lots of people host their own servers for multiple games on hardware other than their personal PC or rent them out. Whitelisting users or themselves to be able to use the console without mods isn't unreasonable.

Gotta love when people have such a sense of superiority they assume everyone else has no clue what they're talking about.

[spiral ice]

Not gonna lie, I thought this was already possible.

[lofty field]

Obviously, cheat commands should only be available for admins, so how would that have any effect on griefing?
And given what a client with mods can do, the whole point is moot anyway.

[wanton atlas]

it's not since devcommands and debugmode is only ran locally

hence you can't use it as a client connecting to a friend or a server

[fast void]

Well now the ask is not "make console commands available" anymore is it?

The ask is "make console commands available with an additional, fully customizable permissions system."

[lofty field]

How so? Using the already present admin role is only reasonable and by no means a "fully customizable permission system"

[wanton atlas]

admin role just gives the ability to kick and ban users from a server

we would have to re-work the entire system

[lofty field]

Yes, currently. I'm saying that it would make sense to extend it to cheat commands if the suggestion was implemented.

[wanton atlas]

since you have 1 adminlist file atm

[lofty field]

And that's enough imo

[wanton atlas]

no

it would have to be more specific

[lofty field]

Why?

[wanton atlas]

snice now, you gain admin all servers that host has

it would need to be specificed on what server you gain admin

[lofty field]

Same as with kick and ban

[wanton atlas]

that's not what I mean

there is 1 place the adminlist.txt file exists

we need to re-work how it works, loads etc

[lofty field]

No, I don't get that. The adminlist is per data directory (or installation directory?), so I've you need more than one, you can always install the dedicated server twice to 2 different directories.
And I don't get why the adminlist for cheat commands would have to be more fine grained than for current admin commands like kick and ban

[wanton atlas]

does not help

so listen

and don't write

adminlist
banlist
whitelist

all are on the save file directory on C:
while the dedicated server(S) all share the same ones

same if you locally host a server

but if you want admin power on someone who joins your server (local or dedicated)
you would need to specify on what server, they have admin power

so we need to re-do the entire system to have the adminlist, banlist and whitelist for each server you have

done

do you see how giving 1 user, or ban 1 user or give 1 user whitelist on 1 server. gives them the same access on all your servers?

[lofty field]

That's wrong. Yes, the lists are loaded from the save dir, but that can be configured for dedicated servers (using the -savedir cmd arg). Thus it's no problem to host multiple worlds with different adminlists from the same machine

[wanton atlas]

it needs to change tho

but the entire dedicated needs a overhaul in due time

it needs a GUI eventually

and I agree that some commands would be handy for someone to be able to run on a server aswell. but not all of them.
so we would have to re-do that aswell

[peak bronze]

#suggestions message They disappear due to their despawn mechanic when night ends unless the taming process starts before that. @swift cedar

[stiff stag]

You have no clue what you're talking about because if there is "no reason" for it then it wouldn't be that way in the first place. There's always a reason, just because you don't like or understand it it doesn't mean there's none.

[swift cedar]

Yes, but if the domestication process begins, that mechanism should be removed. That's very frustrating 🥱

[fast void]

It is removed afaik.
The moment the heart pops up above their head they are locked in unless you leave the area or they get spooked for a long enough time.

[peak bronze]

They don't despawn anymore if their taming process has started.

[swift cedar]

I didn't see that in my last one-star wolf

[gaunt harness]

This is the ideal animal taming gameplay design.
You may not like it, but this is what peak gameplay animal husbandry looks like.

Nothing beats the sheer adrenaline as sitting idly for 20 minutes, chugging animal taming potions and hoping that there are no raid spawns.

[fast void]

Can you turn the sun on?

[gaunt harness]

I do hope that something will be done for animal taming in the future.
The only real "improvement" since 2021 is a potion to slighly reduce the time you are waiting, but that still doesn't change that the only real mechanic involved is waiting, and trying your best to not startle the animal by making noises or becoming briefly visible to their sightlines.

This is double-trouble with star tames, which do despawn if you get too far away from them during daylight. 😭

[gaunt harness]

No, the sun both went up and then down and then up again before this Askvin was tamed.
If anything, that it's in the middle of the night sort of illustrates my point with how much in-game waiting there is to tame an animal.

actually, this was just before daybreak that it successfully tamed.

[peak bronze]

As long as the animal doesn't get alerted (red ! mark) you can do anything you want around them, like gather wood/stone or other tasks.
Bog Witch also sells ingredient for potion that reduces the taming process time in half.
-# Ah recognized you're aware of Animal Whispers.

[gaunt harness]

I can only gather materials that are within their despawn range.
I already mentioned the potion, and that I was drinking it. The potion is a concession to the issue with the original design problem: it's a time sink
-# Ah recognised that you recognised that I'm aware of Animal Whisperers.

As for "other tasks", it really depends. Askvins get really pissy easily. 😭
Made worse by the fact that star Askvins break Grausten walls really easily.

[peak bronze]

Mobs don't just randomly despawn tho, it happens to nightly spawned mobs after night is over, except if their taming process has started.

[gaunt harness]

Is that last part true? I lost a 2 star wolf and I'm certain it was in the taming process before a drake raid killed me.

My b for not having a bed at the taming hole, but still.

[peak bronze]

It is true.

Might be that it didn't yet start if it was still alerted, since mobs don't eat on alerted state.

[gaunt harness]

😩

[peak bronze]

Also, if day has switched already and taming hasn't yet started, the mob will try to escape so it would despawn and won't eat anymore, unless you wait till next night.

[gaunt harness]

they can't start taming during daytime?

[peak bronze]

Correct.

Night time mobs only I mean.

[gaunt harness]

That is rough. Why is that part of the design?
Feels like intentional game feel friction.

[peak bronze]

That I don't know, since I'm not dev. But rarer mobs usually are more desirable for something, like fenring for their trophy or viles for their drops.

2 star wolves drop more materials and are stronger than their non star or 1 star variants.

[gaunt harness]

yeah, that's why I'm trying to get star askvins. I want that leather.

And also, they make good mounts and defenders.

[peak bronze]

I have successful tamed 2 star Asksvin in 4 playthroughs.
Gotta get pink one.

[fast void]

spawn BuffRoidedNeck 2 2
Bam, starred up and ready to go 😛

[gaunt harness]

I do wish they could modify taming slightly.
Think like we have fish bait, then we use the food prep table to modify it for certain fish.
Expand that to animals.

We trap them and feed them, so while they are fed they have a longer window before they turn aggressive. Animal Whisperer can make this time longer. Approach the animal with a biome-appropriate animal feed, use it on them like any item. This add a certain amount to their taming percentage. While using Animal Whisperer pot the amount of taming increases further.

This gives the player a level of participation in the process.

[gaunt harness]

I do like the roided up necks.

[languid ibex]

@green temple It's a bit difficult to vote when you list out your suggestions.

[green temple]

My bad

[fast void]

-# Slightly easier to vote when you don't agree with any of it tbf 🤷‍♂️

[languid ibex]

I wasn't going to say it but-- yeah. 😅

[stiff stag]

#suggestions message if I recall that's something that can't be done with the way things were designed/handled. I don't remember the exact details on why that is though.

[granite geyser]

1. The map could update in real-time: Performance would hate that one simple trick

2. Mini/World map is the same as the generated world: The map is just the same world, so it looks and "behaves" exactly as the world is after being generated and before the player did anything which is why it's always the same

[wanton atlas]

the minimap is enough strain on someones computer hardware as is

just to a little test and do a few 100 pins. and then open the big map, while looking at your FPS

[tardy knot]

Not really following your logic. Are you suggesting that every implementation of every system and mechanic in the game is perfect because if it wasn't they would have done it differently? They should just slap a 1.0 on it now and stop iterating.

[sick breach]

Exactly. Sometimes the reason why something was implemented in a certain way is "it was good enough at the time" or "they had better priorities at the time than polishing this mechanic's implementation.".

[ivory lion]

But sometimes bug becomes a feature ;p

[wanton atlas]

if you went back with what you learned 5 years down the road of development, and fixed that. then you will end up in a infinite loop of "I will just fix that". and the project turns into a spiral of never being finished

sometimes "it's good enough" must be a thing for the project to move forward

and if you also constant are willing to change something, then nothing will ever be done. since it's always up and open for change. meaning you will constantly be changing something. and the project will never finish

@tardy knot

[spiral ice]

@celest flume #suggestions message
I really would like to see Crossbows made available a bit earlier and improved to be a viable alternative to bows, but sadly those ideas never seem to go anywhere.

[wanton atlas]

a issue with "I want X earlier" is that would mean you would have all weapons from medows stage of the game, and there would be nothing to unlock later in the game

and this is usually a thing more experienced players suffer. while new players often just enjoy finding new things as they keep on playing

and we cannot adjust the game for players who keep on playing, and then removing discovery later in the game for new players.

[spiral ice]

I totally agree! And I don't want all weapons available early in the game.
I do, however, think that magic would be better introduced at the halfway point of the full game (Plains) and that a crossbow would be great for the swamp (but no other biome before Mistlands). And if a crossbow were added to the swamp, I would want it to be an exploration-based weapon, like the early axes.

Nevertheless, I acknowledge that this is up to the devs, not the players, and that players have the option of making mods. That's why I state these things occasionally rather than constantly bring it up. 😁

[wanton atlas]

What would we remove then? 🤔

or put in later?

[spiral ice]

In the swamp?

[wanton atlas]

yeah. so we don't overwhelm the new player

[peak bronze]

Hence my suggestion here: #suggestions message 👀

[spiral ice]

I would choose battleaxe. But I don't see why a weapon would have to be moved to make room for a new one in that biome.

[peak bronze]

Not the battleaxe!

[spiral ice]

It's a really cool weapon, but having played the game a few times using almost exclusively axes, I find battleaxes to be good in the Plains and Mistlands, but not as worth using elsewhere.

[peak bronze]

It's one of the best weapons for swamp IMO.

Mainly blobs resist slash, but it's the best damage type against abominations.
-# Okay wraiths too but they also resist pierce and blunt.

[tardy knot]

At least you can thrash aboms with any weapon since they are so easy to parry.

[wanton atlas]

feel good feeling when you perfect block them

[fast void]

I hate it when this happens 😭

[spiral ice]

I honestly gather just enough iron for a pickaxe, enter the Mountains, and get silver weapons and armor for the swamp. 😄

Also I rocked the Early Axes into the Plains in my last playthrough. I should have stopped using them after swamp, but they were so much fun!

And I know: I'm playing the game wrong. 😛

[peak bronze]

-# I'm also still using early axes too and I'm progressing through plains.

[stiff stag]

You claimed it was done for "no reason" which is just blatantly false . Not knowing, understanding, or liking the reason doesn't mean there isn't a reason. None of that is to say it won't or can't change, just that things aren't done certain ways without reason.

[rose swan]

This about the suggestion regarding console commands for servers? 🤔

[ruby quarry]

Creative mode for admins is a fantastic idea. I should be able to do whatever I wish without having to install a mod while playing my dedicated server. We are left with literally the most useless console commands unless if we are on a non-dedicated community server. Community or dedicated, as long as I am the owner or administrator, I should have full control of what I want to accomplish. That also helps with underwater building. Creative control for admins!

[granite geyser]

then do it

devcommands > debugmode > b

[ruby quarry]

That doesn't work on dedicated servers. You need to install a mod just for any of that to work and I'm a console player. We are yet to receive support for mods and even if (for example) my dad started a dedicated server that more than likely him and I would be the only ones playing on it, he must install a mod to have full control of his server - and he promoted me to admin, we do not have the same capabilities because for some goofy reason, without that mod, nothing like that is possible.

[rose swan]

I don’t know much about the subject, but if I’m not mistaken I think that there is a vanilla way to achieve your goal 🤔

[ruby quarry]

I wish there were. I mean, if I am mistaken and I truly am missing something, I would love to be schooled on it but it's been tried - the subject has even been searched and you ultimately lack true control of your server without installing a mod - as a PC player. Console players are promoted to admin and still don't receive the same privilege as what the PC player would have.

[tardy knot]

I know you really like semantics and you really love looking down your nose at people. I said there was no reason admins on dedicated servers shouldn't be able to use dev commands and followed up by saying the desire to do so isn't unreasonable. I stand by both of those statements and if that makes me somehow inferior to your vast and unimpeachable intellect, then I bow to you.

[ruby quarry]

I mean, it isn't like there are trophies or achievements to be had for reaching milestones in the game. My Xbox gamer score isn't going to increase for having full control of my server. It's just going to make the overall experience tons better for allowing console players and PC players to have the same level of privilege and creative control over their own dedicated server.

[stiff stag]

Saying there is no reason for it implies that they just happened to choose not to allow it for whatever reason, which simply isn't true at all. You are correct that it isn't unreasonable to want it though, but that's a moot point since it doesn't change the circumstances preventing it.

[gray canopy]

@tardy knot your suggestion #suggestions message , Im slightly curios, how you fight bears and viles? Cause I have no problem to parry either of them and I cant say I recognize the issues you're experiencing. Im not doubting your skills here, so please dont misunderstand, I just wonder how you place yourself when you block and if you can time that block correctly.

[stiff stag]

I believe they mean because of the janky behavior the attack never lands to begin with in some circumstances leaving nothing to block or parry, not that they are bad at timing it.

[gray canopy]

I see

[tardy knot]

Yeah. I can parry the lunge. But to do so, you can't stand square with the bear and have to offset to the swiping paw side. Then you have to let the bear lunge at you, allow contact with the bear, slide back 5 meters, THEN raise your shield, if you lined it up correctly and the bear doesn't sail over your shoulder anyway. But at that point, I'm not fighting the bear, I'm making a fairly large compensation for the animation/interaction, it's unintuitive and a work around.

[languid ibex]

I've killed so many bears and viles I can't even count, and not once have I experienced what you're describing. 👀

[tardy knot]

Interesting. Maybe a weird interaction with having someone at range and in melee? I play primarily duo with my wife who prefers a ranger playstyle. That being said, even by myself I find it difficult to take damage from bears.

[stiff stag]

I've experienced it a few times, definitely not as often as described though. I can't recall but my experiences with it may have also been in multiplayer and not as much in single player. Given that I've seen enemies fly in a straight line up into the air in a choppy motion in multiplayer before it could very easily be the main factor.

[wanton atlas]

@tardy knot you know bears have the same stats as a troll

so if you can't deal with a troll, a bear is the same

[tardy knot]

I can deal with both. I was saying that a bear has a hard time hitting me, even if I try to take damage

[wanton atlas]

yeah. might be a hit-area issue

[languid ibex]

Do you have any clips of this?

[gaunt harness]

#suggestions message I would love higher tier rods. It could play nicely into the fishing rarity game as well. Upgraded rods have slightly reduced stamina drain for bigger fish, making them easier to catch, or something.

#suggestions message I agree with this. Bears are in a weird spot for me. On a fresh-start character, you are almost forced to cheese them by trapping them and roasting them over fire. Until you have a bronze buckler, or a very high block skill, I don't think you'll be parrying them or blocking their attacks much at all, and their attacks are so much more aggressive compared to trolls, while packing much the same damage. There comes a point where their attacks are no longer a threat, but they have a strangely hardy health pool despite this. Even with Ashlands Eitr magic I find that regular bears survive for longer than they should...

[languid ibex]

The suggestion is about their hitboxes missing them. 👀

[gaunt harness]

I agreed with their suggestion. Then I added that fighting bears in general feels weird.
Even though the biggest enemy of bears is geometry, they are still a strangely tough enemy in a biome that already has a very tough enemy - the troll. The Black Forest didn't really need another high damage, high destruction enemy.

[languid ibex]

Ah, well it seemed a bit contradictory, as you proceeded to explain that they hit too hard and you needed to cheese them, and then spoke about blocking them. Seems like points against what they're suggesting, because they have a hard time being hit at all.

[gaunt harness]

Basically, rework their attacks to be less reliant on a flat ground, and no obstacles. Also make them slightly less destructing, powerful, and tanky than trolls.

[gaunt harness]

They do hit too hard, and you do end up cheesing them in the early game when you have low skill levels and weaker armour. I don't understand what is the contradiction.
Sure, a lot of the time the bears will fail to make contact with their louge attacks, but when they do they hit really, really hard. Bizzarely hard, actually, given that they are just the second biome you come to, and you won't have access to weapons that can deal with them effectively (until you find out they are afraid of fire).

That bears can also destroy trees, stone, and copper/tin nodes as well... it's piling on the destruction.

[languid ibex]

I disagree personally, I had no issues with bears, and they only fail to make contact when I'm moving a lot.

[gaunt harness]

That's fair. Everyone's world seeds are different. If you get very awkward terrain, you get very awkward encounters.
Everyone is going to have their own anecdote.

[tardy knot]

No, but good idea

[rancid quail]

https://discordapp.com/channels/391142601740517377/1202312684364910612/1372178261299167242 its kind of weird to me that obsidian is needed to upgrade abyssal razor, paws of the bear and troll/bear armor to their highest quality while you can easily craft replacements for everything with the iron from the swamp. So it seems like by the time I can upgrade those things to quality 4 I will already use other things. (And at the same time the forge can be completely upgraded while still being in the swamp even though nothing needs that. Only the ancient spear needs forge level 6, everything else is below)

[languid ibex]

Oh wow, this suggestion is from a year ago. 👀 🪦

[rose swan]

Personally I love when old suggestions are resurrected, it’s like a piece of history

[wanton atlas]

necromancers 👀

[sonic musk]

I like the ocean NPC suggestion. Could be some little Dverger that sits on Leviathans and tells you not to bother him 😏

Of course when you disobey, he shows up at another random leviathan and says 'I see you made a mistake there. No worries, it happens. Just don't do it again'

When you see him on the 3rd Leviathan he says 'Alright son, I'm warning ya. If you do that 1 more time there's gonna be consequences'

On the 4th leviathan: consequences XD

[wanton atlas]

I can't for the life of me get what a 4th trader would sell

[sonic musk]

White powder. Don't ask what it is XD it's uh... magic dust 😏

[wanton atlas]

so the stones starts talking?

[sonic musk]

Wait, they weren't already? I need to go back to my base real quick

[wanton atlas]

https://tenor.com/view/chibi-blood-for-the-god-gif-11938035185254420975

[tardy knot]

I do like the thought of a dude on an island. Sells a coconut that does nothing, can craft it into a hat that also does nothing 😛

That being said, more uses for Chitin would be nice

[sonic musk]

I think this NPC would also let early game players know Dvergers are neutral until you cause them problems, and future Dvergers will not be so nice XD

I think it may not be well received but I'm suggesting it anyways. I think it would be very funny to see

[tardy knot]

Does it show up in a different spot each time?

[sonic musk]

oh yeah. He isn't stuck in 1 spot but moves around. He lives on leviathans

[tardy knot]

And even if not well received it might tickle enough of a thought somewhere that it becomes a gateway idea to something else, and that's a fun thought.

But I can identify with a curmudgeonly hermit

[sonic musk]

I think Valheim has plenty of room for comedy. I always laughed very hard in the mountains. I would take drake eggs and drop them off cliffs watching them bump their head at each turn. I'm making future drakes much easier to fight XD

And ragdoll physics are super funny. Alongside bringing my best friend '2* seeker soldier' to meet all my buddies at the Fuling Village. This game has lots of room for laughs, and an intentional joke from the devs would be welcome

[rancid quail]

(well, I could just have made a new suggestion instead of spending time to search if that suggestion is already existing 😂 )

I think its still a valid balancing question why putting that last upgrade for black forest gear in the mountain biome while you get all the forge upgrades immediately in swamp. I can't make any sense of it so I was curious if others can see some kind of reasoning behind it.

[fast void]

I believe Smiffe confirmed the game is designed around you just having lvl 1 stuff from each biome as you go. So additional upgrades are just "free stats" in that regard 🤷‍♂️

[lofty wave]

Why do itemset commands set skills then 🤔

[fast void]

Why does shield progression power make no sense whatsoever? 🤔

[rose swan]

Balance shmalance 🥱

[rancid quail]

thanks, that helps indeed! 👍

[flat cloud]

I think bear spawns need to be tuned down😂 they are everywhere, you kill one, walk around a tree and there's another lmao

[gray canopy]

@flat cloud #suggestions message just spawn them in, use devcommands.

[tardy knot]

I get why people would want something like that. If you're not playing with a decently sized group or a community, there is an inherent lack of liveliness

[rose swan]

That’s kinda the vibe they’re going for though, yeah? A desolate lonely land? 🤔

Building villages are really cool, to be clear. But they don’t serve a functional purpose beyond decoration pretty much.

[fast void]

Having villagers would be cruel given we would knowingly abandon them...

[flat cloud]

yeah, using commands just gives me an ick yeknow.

[rose swan]

Eh, I’m sure the villagers could find a way to survive without us

Regardless, we’re not in Valheim to be a mayor after all

[shadow crow]

💡 Add a top hat to Hildr's stock. 🎩 Required mayoral attire!

[hallow saddle]

Tf does this mean isn’t that what we already have

[fast void]

I believe they mean something like, if you deforest an island, the trees on the map shouldn't be there anymore.

[hallow saddle]

I agree though it was worded very strangely

[tardy knot]

While I'm sure totally not feasible from a technical standpoint, it would be amazing to have things like rooflines, perimeter walls, and cultivated swaths of land reflected on the minimap

[wanton atlas]

That's the entire point! 😅
You vs the task you are given

[sullen crow]

I definitely agree with this, I loved that 7 days to die did it, and I noticed Valheim didn’t a few days ago when me and a few others were linking bases with paths. It would be awesome

[runic plover]

Not sure how difficult it would be to implement, but would it be at all possible to have the map update the area in your discovery radius on some timer? Maybe every 5 minutes, for example's sake?

[wanton atlas]

Its not hard to implement. But the taxation on your FPS would probably kill your performance hard

[lofty wave]

Right now the entire map is generated during world generation and hidden by a separate texture. It also doesn’t check what’s actually in the world and uses worldgen functions to guess how it should look

[runic plover]

Thus the suggestion of only updating within your discovery range and only every few minutes, to hopefully reduce resource use. Perhaps something to bring up with the team post 1.0? Maybe as a world modifier or something so it's optional?

[sullen crow]

I mean, I feel like if instead of the ENTIRE map wasn’t generated at once, then they could work around the cost. I’m sure if it was tile based, it would be a lot easier to track at least larger changes. Granted, in large servers, if people are constantly building that might be a little much to sync every few seconds.

[wanton atlas]

that setting already exist tho

tho it's not connected to discovery range

[runic plover]

There's already a setting to update your map to reflect changes the player has caused to it?

[wanton atlas]

Draw distance lessens your amount of objects being loaded in

but the map-reveal is static

[half maple]

I would really like to see what you can do with them expanded

I'm not exactly sure what but I think they are one of the coolest features with potential for something more.

[fast void]

Smiffe, the suggestion being discussed is the map "updating" to show things like deforested areas (i.e. the green clusters in the Plains would be "updated"/removed from the map if you cut all the trees down), or things like what the players has built (i.e. you build a massive castle, and a grey square-ish shap is "updated"/added to the map in that location).

[wanton atlas]

I've explained why those things cannot be a thing before

performance

[fast void]

Yes. I was just commenting because you had said "it already exists."

Their counter to "performance" was "only once per 5 minutes though?"

[wanton atlas]

and also the biomes are a representation, and not the actual picture of a biome looks like

[wanton atlas]

then the game would stand still every 5 minutes

[fast void]

And you could sound cue the "STOP AND STARE" song every time it did 😛

[wanton atlas]

https://giphy.com/gifs/patience-slow-down-hang-on-fS5I4hHyFTu3HnqiZs

it's one of those ideas i would tell people to try this.
open map
place down as many map markers you can
close map
open map
see how long it takes

now imagine that by 100000

one of the limitations i honestly would like to add, is the maximum number of map markers placed down

because during the years, I've helped 100's of people with low FPS when they open the map

and they have basicly painted entire picasso's

[fast void]

Yeah, people tend to over-mark from what I have seen 😄

[wanton atlas]

yes

and it will impact their performance

[fast void]

Next update: Maximum Mark Limit 😈

[wanton atlas]

no no

next update : "Save the game from the player"

[peak bronze]

I do too, but have not noticed much impact to the performance. 👀

[fast void]

I think Satis actually does that. You get like 120 total map markers.

[wanton atlas]

picture

and then zoom out on the minimap

[peak bronze]

Maybe I should add more.

[wanton atlas]

while you have FPS showing

like. this is just stage 1 of madness

(not mine)

[peak bronze]

Okay maybe not that much but usually quite a lot of markers, mainly in the first areas of new biomes I start to explore.

[wanton atlas]

just open the game

press F2

open map, close map

see diffrence in FPS

then you can test by using the , and . keys to change your minimap aswell

notice changes

[peak bronze]

I know those keys. I just said I haven't noticed much difference but let me see soon.

Okay, dropped around 5 FPS.

But I have console eyes so my FPS limit is 30 therefore I don't notice much difference. 👀
-# Jk.

[glad cargo]

I wonder what people are actually marking here. Like, there aren't THAT many interesting things to mark

[wanton atlas]

all things

mushrooms, berries etc

[fast void]

I mark berries only in clusters of 6 or more.

[gaunt harness]

Why do map markers affect performance significantly?
What is the infrastructure you are using for containing and displaying them?

Shouldn't they just be a dictionary object containing a vector and an enum to reference what sprite to display?

[fast void]

Cuts down on pins considerably.

[wanton atlas]

because they constantly need to be updated on the map /minimap

and if we added so you would see trees being cut down from the minimap. the game would have to either re-render the minimap every X timeframe, meaning your game would basicly stop for a few seconds, or your FPS would stutter while you cut down every single tree

and don't get me started on Xbox one or older computers performance

[gaunt harness]

[wanton atlas]

I think I have this discussion montly now 😅

[fast void]

Valheim: Supercomputer Edition coming with 1.0
/s

[wanton atlas]

just download performance 🫡

[fast void]

ChatGPT can add new frames, why can't devs? 😏 🤣

[wanton atlas]

a carpenter can also add a new frame

[fast void]

😮

[languid ibex]

@lapis gust Really like this premise, good idea! 👍

[lapis gust]

About time to drink the berserker potion and put fader in his place

[runic plover]

To be fair, my counter was "only within discovery range and only once every 5 minutes." If you're going to speak for me, at least convey the entire message.

Even then, the 5 minutes was just to have an example number. Only within discovery range was the main point.

[fast void]

Smiffe reads everything. So I was merely using a short phrase to reference your entire message, which I know he had read.

Apologies that it did not appear that way.

[gray canopy]

#suggestions message This one caught my attention. It would be really nice if the Oceans at some points got some more things happening yes.

[half maple]

I'm curious how badly it would lag updating the map to show trees specifically being removed. The game doesn't lag as you walk into a new spot on the map so why would it lag to update as trees fall?

And since it's an approximation it would only update after you fell many trees not every time you break a tree.

I need to learn modding to do experiments lol

[languid ibex]

As mentioned above, it's just 2 textures, one of the explored map, and one texture that covers it up. What your suggesting would require a 3rd texture of the explored map, without trees, and checks if the trees are there. This would be awkward with players who chop trees down and replant them, as it would show no trees.

It's just not set up for such a thing, and would require more than 2 layers to ineract properly.

[half maple]

It wouldnt need more layers it would just need the ability to update a small piece of the map after its already been created

[languid ibex]

Right now it's easy, one layer on top, on layer on the bottom, no checking the map for changes.

[half maple]

The advantage something like minecraft has is you trigger when the map refreshes but it might be tricky for Valheim because the map is always there

[languid ibex]

That's how the system works, you're talking about creating an image based on information it doesn't have.

It creates the map image based on the generation, not what anything actually looks like.

[gray canopy]

Im no programmer, but To make that work, the game would need more than just a visual tweak. It would require some structural changes:

1. Track tree removal;
   The game would need to record when trees are cut down and where. Right now the map doesn’t care about individual objects like trees.
2. Store that information;
   Those changes would have to be saved in the world data so the map knows which areas have fewer trees..
3. Update the map based on tree density;
   The map would need logic to check an area (a grid or zone) and estimate how many trees remain, then adjust the forest look on the map. This sounds more like a mod-thing.
   Will also need to regenerate parts of the map texture,
   The map image would need to update when enough trees are removed, ideally in chunks so it doesn’t rebuild the whole map every time.
   Then theres sync in multiplayer.
   In multiplayer the server would need to store and send these updates to players.
   The reason exploring new areas doesn’t lag is because the map reveals pre-generated data, while this feature would require tracking world changes and updating the map dynamically.
   If someone ever made a mod like that, they could add in cultivated areas aswell.

[half maple]

Thats the point

[languid ibex]

What's the point?

[half maple]

To find a way to be able to re render that part of the map only by giving it the information it needs

[languid ibex]

It's actually even more involved but yes, more than just a visual update.

[half maple]

I don't necessarily want the feature in the game as well I was just thinking about how it would work because it's cool

[languid ibex]

I'm.. telling you exactly how it could with the current system. You're just mistaken in telling me that it'd need the ability to update a small piece of the map.

There's zero updating happening, it's just taking the same generation information and utilizing it for an image.

There's no variable in the generation information that would allow you to pluck out a cluster of trees and whatnot.

[half maple]

Yes, you would need to create that data

[languid ibex]

You would need to generate the same map with no trees present, and "uncover" the layer without trees as you would while exploring.

[languid ibex]

Create what data? 👀

[half maple]

To tell the game where trees are and arent

[languid ibex]

Mark each instance with a data marker? There's over a million to calculate, that's going to be incredibly performance heavy and slow world creation to a crawl.

[half maple]

And that implementation probably works. I just don't think you would need a whole texture of the map without trees as another "layer." In this theoretical setup where the game has data on what areas are tree heavy or not it would be able to update the map dynamically, like edit the map texture itself.

[languid ibex]

The system could be approached in far more optimal ways.

[half maple]

You would have to do some kind of approximation

Theres no way to record every tree in an area

[languid ibex]

You truly don't at all.

There absolutely is, the map generation method could be switched over to a snapshot and conversion method.

What you're describing is incredibly process heavy, programming heavy, and would likely require plenty of testing for removing/creating instances.

[half maple]

Yes to all of those things, it's just it would create a dynamic map system that could do many things

[languid ibex]

Sure, there's just so many better approaches.

[half maple]

In that method you described isn't the game still checking for the amount of trees in your area so it can reveal the "3rd treeless map texture?"

It's not strictly better because it would only be useful for the trees thing

[languid ibex]

Not at all, it could be done upon loading times. It'd just vastly change the visuals of the map.

[half maple]

You're also storing a 3rd map texture instead of just updating the existing one

[languid ibex]

Sleeping, saving, loading in, teleporting, etc.

It'd just be a system to take a snapshot of the world in chunks, compile those chunks into a map, and overwrite the old map.

[half maple]

I was picturing it updating dynamically as you visit those areas again like the minecraft map

[languid ibex]

That's great, but minecraft is just little blown up pixels.

That process is insignificant, and was even handled by crude java clients during development.
Valheim has far more heavy processes happening, and the map size is gigantic.

[half maple]

Thats not an insignificant process, it just works because the system was done well

Valheim would have it's own challenges and implementation

[half maple]

And I don't understand what you mean by not at all. I'm just guessing here but I assume the map is generated when the world is created and only knows theres trees at any given area because of a biome map texture or something (like a heightmap for biomes). At some point in this made up system it would have to actually collect data on if theres trees in an area or not.

[languid ibex]

I'm just pointing out that Minecraft is far different in operation and execution then Valheim. It's nice to picture things happening the same, but there's just far less complications in a game like Minecraft to approach such a system.

[languid ibex]

The map image uses the same generation data as the world does, and creates the map image with the same parameters as the world. There's no tree counts taking place, just indepth awareness within generation of what's occurring and where.

[half maple]

Which is why to achieve the same result Valheim would need it's own solutions?

You're pointing out the obvious respectfully

[languid ibex]

That's what I've been describing to you this entire time.

You're just saying it should happen dynamically and that each tree should be a marked instance.

[half maple]

I did not say every tree should be a "marked instance"

I am saying it should happen dynamically

[languid ibex]

You would have to do some kind of approximation
Theres no way to record every tree in an area

Yeah I just don't think you're understanding what I've been saying or something, not to worry.

[half maple]

And thats great, I've just been describing my own idea for how it could work that matches the things I want it to be able to do

[languid ibex]

Did I miss that?

[half maple]

Maybe, I did state what I want from the system already

[languid ibex]

Just a dynamically updating map, which I laid out 2 options for.

A 3rd tree-less layer to paint over explored areas as trees are felled, which would require checks.

Or snapshots of the world that update at chosen times, which would change the map visuals drastically.

[half maple]

Thats great and I laid out my own ideas

[languid ibex]

I didn't see any ideas

[half maple]

My idea was to create a dynamic map drawing system like the minecraft one but in Valheim. I don't know exactly detail of how I would do it yet.

[languid ibex]

Right which is why I'd said this, because it utilizes what's already being done.

Chop tree? Paint from tree-less layer.

It's just complicated because it'd result in players wanting layers for every visual thing on the map so it can be influenced.

[half maple]

I explained to you I dont like that solution because I'd rather just have that part of the map re render on its own and the ability to do that could allow for displaying more than just trees falling.

[languid ibex]

Ah, so you want the map creation to be completely reapproached 😛

[half maple]

In this sorta pipe dream yes, do I think it NEEDS to be in the game? No

[fast void]

Pipes in Valheim when? 😏

[half maple]

The reason I joined this conversation is because I thought the idea of a dynamically updating map in Valheim is cool

But obviously not everything cool is feasible

[half maple]

Pranking your friends by dumping tar on them...

[languid ibex]

It is, and possible within the bounds of the current system, that's why I joined in.

[fast void]

Why does everyone use their power for evil 😭

[half maple]

We're mischevious vikings

[fast void]

Not me.. I am a wholesome, helpful, spreadsheeting viking 😭

-# I need to get a T-shirt with excel graphics on it that says "I just sheet myself."

[half maple]

lol

[sonic musk]

I honestly read this as 'Pineapples in Valheim when?' lol

[tardy knot]

Have discussions about balancing skill gains been fully beaten to death? The rates that various skills are acquired are frustratingly uneven. I'm not sure if the intent is supposed to be amount of input = xp/skill gain in a very strict sense, or if skills are supposed to be gained proportionally based on how much the skill actually comes up. I have a character in the midgame who has 2 weapon skills above 50, running above 60, but cooking at 11 and blocking in the low 20s. For the weapons I have at a higher level, I was blocking/parrying constantly the whole time and I refresh meals at the 50% mark constantly. It's kind of a whatever thing, but I think it would be nice to see those skill gains be more commensurate with how much it feels you're doing something in a relative sense to the overall game experience.

[rose swan]

Skills have been a pretty hot topic for a few years now- I’d probably put it at A tier on the suggestion tier list

Hopefully he doesn’t mind me pinging him, but @arctic wharf is a pretty big advocate for a skill rework

[arctic wharf]

That I am

Don't mind at all as well

Think I have had lengthy discussions on skills at least 8 times

And I firmly believe their current implementation does not support valheims gameplay, rather it incentivizes some of the worst aspects past say the black forest once you are likely to hit high enough skills that the XP required to level has inflated way too high.

Can find I have made a few suggestions of my own regarding skills also ofc.

But alas, will leave it there for the moment. unless you have questions.

[tardy knot]

Hard agree, no questions, thanks!

[tardy knot]

I would love to know how much data they have in the form of player metrics. Purely for a very rough example: we found for a sample of 10,000 players over 40 hours of gameplay made 14000 melee attacks, blocked 3500 times, parried 5000 times, cooked 750 meals, planted and harvested 1200 times. We think they should be level 75 after 40 hours of average gameplay. Set gains and curves and adjust from there based on more data

Do you know if steam supports those characters in lobby/server lists? Could be an infrastructure limitation. Seems very thematically appropriate

[languid ibex]

These things aren't often made public to prevent any natural results from ballooning.

[tardy knot]

For sure. I think I'm more interested to know if that data exists and if they've been iterating on it, or if skill balancing is guess and check or set and forget

[languid ibex]

Skill.. balancing..?

Hard to say if they're utilizing player data, there is statistics being saved throughout gameplay, but if I had to assume there is some degree of player metric data being utilized. It's not difficult to set up at any point during development.

[tardy knot]

Just pointing back to earlier conversation. 40 hours of very active gameplay, it feels bad for a player to have 60 knife and club skill with 24 block and 11 cooking, when proportionately to how much each of those skills has contributed to overall gameplay feels more or less of equal value.

[languid ibex]

Yeah I understood, it's just very well known by many regular users in this discord, that some skill experience gains are odd.

I was just making a bit of a joke.

[arctic wharf]

I second that response....

[wanton atlas]

🤔

nope

never heard

[wanton atlas]

about 0 from player since it would be invasive and the amount of data we would get would be impossible to store

those kind of metrics are usually from MMORPG's where balance is a must have information, and you have mega-mind-brain people who have done all kind of math and analythics courses just to be able to be able to forsee what needs to be done

or

you can play your own game. decide what you want as game developer. and then be okay with your own decision

[glad cargo]

That's the thing larger studios can't get away with

Just playing your game and being happy with what you've done

[wanton atlas]

like I said. it depends on the game

is it a competative online game?

does it require very precice balance between enemies, resistances, weapons?

[rose swan]

#suggestions message A bear suggestion! In 2026

[wanton atlas]

the typical

give them 1, they ask for 1 more

just remove all enemies, and make them all bears

[rose swan]

Would rather see more variants of other monsters before a variant of a bear, if anything 🤔

[fast void]

Yes. 😁

[lament zinc]

Yup, I didn't have that one on my "Valheim Suggestion Bingo Card" yet.

[tardy knot]

After looking at the wiki, seems like XP gains are fairly arbitrary. 1.5xp per swing of a melee weapon and 0.25 per recipe for cooking. So like, for cooking 3 foods that last 25m each, twice, you cook 50 minutes of food for 1.5xp. And in that 50 minutes, the XP you would gain from combat is exponentially higher. Condensed to a single food vs combat, to equal 100 swings of melee you'd need to cook 600 of a single recipe, which could be as high as a total of 18000 minutes worth of food, or 300 hours. So 300 hours of food is worth 100 swings of a sword as far as xp goes

[fast void]

Look at block armor progression if you want the gold standard of arbitrary. 😁

Basic shield = linear, makes sense.
Buckler and Tower = someone threw darts at a board.

[lament zinc]

There's a reason we got told that optimalizations will happen after the 1.0 release. And these two things are part of that.

[arctic wharf]

Pretty much expected though.
Many default into polar bears haha

[arctic wharf]

If this is referring to adjusting / fixing up skills 🤔 after 1.0 is kind of late for it to have real impact. Most will have already played through the game after being enticed by that complete 1.0 label.

[tardy knot]

I shan't; my little heart can't take it.

[arctic wharf]

Imo, fixing skills up for 1.0 would be a big improvement to the overall experience (if done right), but at the same time leaving them as is, is far from the end of the world too.

[wanton atlas]

What is wrong with it?

I've said so before. Skills doesn't have that big Impact as you make it sounds like

[lament zinc]

It's been confirmed that some things in this game aren't balanced enough and that they will be optimized after the 1.0 release.

And the main reason for it is that the devs consider the 1.0 release more important as optimisation of some of the aspects of the game.

After all, the game is working and it's working quite well. The fact there are balance issues doesn't stop the game from working nor is it game breaking.

[wanton atlas]

After 1.0 it would probably not be touched

Because of achievements

And skills is'nt broken.

So stop making it sound like the world is about to end

[arctic wharf]

They don't, which is why I said it would be far from the end of the world

But they do have some impact as a supporting system. And currently that impact is just a minor detractor from the experience. It doesn't properly support gameplay post black forest, and instead incentevises some pretty unfun grindy gameplay.

You don't need them, but it still entices you anyways.

Ignoring them is plenty possible, but tricky when you will get the occasional ping from a level up eternally reminding you of their existance.
A reminder and tease.

[arctic wharf]

It's not game breaking, just a minor and constant detractor from the experience.

Imo, of course. And many others it seems.

[lament zinc]

It would be if this was an RPG.

But it isn't an RPG.

In this game, skills help you getting things done easier and some have additional benefits.

Unlike an RPG, where skills are required to do more damage, get better items, and so forth.

It's already proven by some players you can get to and defeat Fader with nothing more but the 1 starting skill point.

[arctic wharf]

It's not about actual gameplay impact, it's mental impact.

You get a level, this reminds you skills exist. If you at any point think "oh, it would be nice to push my skills higher" then you've fallen into the trap.
Considering you have hit the easy to hit points in a given skill, it's not worth paying heed to pushing levels since it is super duper grindy. And you will be reminded how little that effort matters next time you die.

[tardy knot]

It's not "wrong" per se. But from a player satisfaction perspective it feels bad a wholly unsatisfying as a player to put in, overall, what feels like equal effort over the course of a playthrough and come out with some skills leveled to 75 and others to 15. For lack of any better words it just feels bad and unsatisfying

I need to cook 1800 onions worth of soup to get the same xp benefit as 100 sword swings. And in the amount of time it takes to plant and harvest that many onions and actually use all that food, i can be level 50 or higher in multiple weapons, meanwhile farming might be 15 and cooking probably 8 or 10.

[arctic wharf]

Eventually a player will learn to just ignore skills as a system, letting it do whatever in the background.

The pings from gaining a level will always remind you they do exist though.

[lament zinc]

Well then, perhaps the Devs should remove the skills from the game.

And push the release of 1.0 back a couple of years.

Wanna bet the moment that happens we get the suggestions about "add skill progression to the game" within a nano second it is discovered?

[arctic wharf]

Pandora's box has been opened. Can't remove/disable them without backlash now.

No such thing as just fixing skills as a system, but a little TLC wouldn't hurt either.

.
And ofc as I did say, leaving them as is, is far from the end of the world anywho.
They are just a minor detractor from the experience (past about black forest).

It's less feels bad when I remove skill loss on death, I will note.
Since that has the double effect of both letting skills steadily climb in the background and reducing the pings from leveling up as you are not dropping back down into the faster to gain levels.

[tardy knot]

Fun quick maths. Level 50 knives vs cooking, based on wiki numbers.

Level 50 is a total of 3650XP.

3650/1.5=2430 swings.

3 knife swings takes 1.74s per wiki meaning around 1.7knife/sec roughly. So around 1430s or about 24 minutes of active knife combat.

For cooking you need to cook 3650/0.25 meals; 14600 meals. Let's say for argument sake it's the food that lasts the least amount of time and you always refresh it when it can be, at 10min remaining you get 10m of value per food. That's 14600x10 minutes = 146,000 minutes. For argument sake again, we recognize you need 3 food buffs to generally be effective so we'll take that down to a 3rd, 48,766 minutes(811 hours or approx 20 full time american work weeks).

So to raise your cooking to level 50, aside from the astronomical amount of materials and waste of making that much, you're cooking enough food to last a long enough time to raise your knife skill from 0 to 50 48666/24 = 2,027 times.

[lament zinc]

@wanton atlas perhaps it's a good idea to remove the skills from the inventory tab?

When they aren't visible, people won't continue nagging about the difference in progress some have.

[tardy knot]

And I'm not sure i want to go into the time sink and logistics of growing and harvesting say, 14600x3=43800 onions or carrots to cook that many meals. In a, say, 15x15 plot, which is reasonably maintainable at 225 plots you can turn over that many crops every minimum 4000seconds less time for sleeping. Let's say sleep for 8 hours a night always, that'd be a minimum of about 44 minutes per 225 vegetable. To get 43600 veg you'd have to turn over that farm 194 times with each time taking 44 minutes or around a total of 8530 minutes. Add an extra third for seed rotation and it's around 11400 minutes of perfect farming at minimum growth time.

So around 11400 minutes or around 190 hours to produce enough crops to cook enough meals to produce enough cooking xp to equal approximately 24 minutes of knife combat.

[wanton atlas]

let me say this

you are not supposed to level to 100 skill

you can. but you're not supposed to

[tardy knot]

I used 50 as an example, which is a very reasonable level to reach and attainable for many skills, especially combat

[peak bronze]

If they wanted black bear then they should look out for 2 star bear during night. 👀

[tardy knot]

I don't think highlighting the system as something that seems poorly thought out in terms of player experience and satisfaction is nagging. The current system makes little sense in that regard.

[lament zinc]

No, the nagging is continuing about it, even when a dev explained the how's and why's.

And with that I mean this line #suggestion-discussion message and the one after that.

[wanton atlas]

you die. you lose part of your skills (memory)

it's explained when you die the first time in the game

[tardy knot]

That is perfectly understandable. Penalty for dying is something that makes perfect sense and is also customizable. I have no qualms or misunderstanding with that.

[tardy knot]

"Skills isn't broken" isn't exactly explaining the "hows and whys"

[lament zinc]

You really don't want to give up, do you?

Dev: "Skills aren't broken."
Player: "Yes they are."

[tardy knot]

Show me where I said they were broken?

They work exactly in the way they were implemented. All I'm saying is the way they are implemented don't make sense from a player satisfaction perspective and the amount of input of time and effort are vastly disproportionate across skills.

[arctic wharf]

I never said they were broken myself 👀 just that they don't do a very good job as a supporting system and tend to incentavise some of the worst gameplay you could engage in.

They are not bending your arms backwards forcing you to engage with it tho.

Bit wild if you think I am nagging btw, this is the discussions channel we are all just respectfully chatting here.

Unsure when or how it came across that I was attempting to say skills are broken, or that they are a huge issue. Am also unsure why others are being defensive about them, and some of the remarks back don't seem to make sense as a response to what I am actually typing/saying.

Just to be clear, I don't think skills are broken nor do I think they MUST be changed. I don't even think it is a huge issue.

At most, it's a small issue.
But it is an ever present one that reminds you it is there constantly.
Have to eventually train yourself to ignore skills so that they can do their thing in the background, otherwise they will needlessly detract from the experience.
The trap card is caring about skills when you shouldn't.

[brisk matrix]

I think its the unlimited penalty most people that dont like it dont like. IMHO if you dont like it change the settings or use mods.

Now for actual suggestions. I think a system with lower caps and more impact from the skills might be a nice idea to try. Something like reach level 20 in a skill and now it cant drop below 10. Repeat every 10 levels. If you somehow get to 100 then the lowest it can go is 90. That actually might be too forgiving at higher skill levels while having minimal impact at low levels but its a starting idea.

[arctic wharf]

I get the thinking on that one, but it won't change too too much. Due to how they function.

XP required to level inflates to some pretty absurd amounts, while how much you gain from doing corresponding actions never increases. This makes attaining the high levels a pretty silly prospect in the first place.

.
I did make my own suggestions in the suggestions channel ofc, with this in mind

Would not mind copying the link to them if anyone new wants a peak.

That way you won't have to search the channel with how far up they are

[fast void]

Smiffe deleted my joke 😭

[tardy knot]

There are some things that just don't make sense to me as well: look at club/axe skill. 1h get 1.5 xp per hit and swing faster than 2h. 2h get 1 xp per hit and swing slower.

2h weapons generally do more damage for the equivalent level 1h and cost significantly more stamina to use. So not only are you going to find yourself running out or low on stamina more often, you will earn less stamina per swing of the weapon, and since you will kill things in fewer swings, you'll also gain even less xp relative to the amount of in game combat you accomplish.

[fast void]

My one and only gripe with skill is that knockback on maces scales instead of being a flat value.

[tardy knot]

Most Extreme example: you fight 100 enemies that take 1 swing of the 2H and 2 swings of the 1H. You get 200x1.5=300 xp with the 1 hander and 100x1.0=100 of xp with the 2H.

Number of hits per enemy becomes negligible as enemies get tougher but you're still left with a 30% disparity in xp at the end of the day

Don't get me started on knockback

[fast void]

Make knockback not scale and I will use Frostner finally.

[lofty wave]

So it's always the max value?

[fast void]

I was told the value stated on the weapon is the base value that then increases with skill.
Was this information wrong?

[lofty wave]

It uses the same value that determines the hit's damage variance

so if you hit for 45% damage you deal 45% knockabck

[fast void]

That's... gross.

[lofty wave]

it's also reduced by MTP in the same way

[tardy knot]

If you wanna see something hilarious, knockback distance/power calculations get stored as like a movement in direction for x units or time kind of way. In a game with a friend, spawn in a level 999999 buckler and turn on pvp. Have a buddy hit you and with a million parry force they'll get stuck traveling max speed on whatever x,z vector for MINUTES. across oceans, over mountains etc.

[lofty wave]

if you want to see high knockback in normal gameplay hit a bat with wood weapons, they have the lowest mass of any creature

[tardy knot]

That being said, i wish the amount of knockback for the parryer and parryee was reduced. It's frustrating to have to close the gap between you and a mob after a parry, it's often hard to get a 3hit combo in.

[fast void]

I want my normal swings with maces to barely push and for the secondary to be the actual punt.
So I can control when I want to kill and when I want to make space.

[wanton atlas]

don't joke then

[fast void]

😭

[wanton atlas]

https://tenor.com/view/haha-gumichan-bird-no-laughing-gif-5128531988218293677

[fast void]

😁

[arctic wharf]

🤣

[wanton atlas]

https://tenor.com/view/confetti-glee-celebration-gif-5905411

[kind crystal]

honestly if your skills go up by 10 per biome, especially combat skills, then you’ll be between 60-80 by the time you reach mistlands and ashlands which is more than sufficient

@wanton atlas what’s the reasoning behind the downvote on my suggestion? no hate at all im just curious to hear a developers perspective. is it a button mapping issue for controllers or os there another issue?

[wanton atlas]

I just don't want the game to be like that 😄

[kind crystal]

fair enough!

[wanton atlas]

for controllers I would guess it's a issue tho since al buttons already are in use

but the settning was made way before controllers even was a thing

[kind crystal]

i tend to play with mods so its something i can already bypass, but i was just wondering if there were any plans to make it vanilla 🙂

[wanton atlas]

no plans what I can tell 🤔

things like that isn't part of a 1.0

[stiff stag]

The only issue I have with the 2 key/button combo is that occasionally I'll hit space just slightly too early causing me to jump instead. Though that's a very rare occurrence and can be worked out through practice and being more careful. Also I feel like getting invulnerability frames should be a bit more involved than just tapping a single key anyway.

[languid ibex]

I wouldn't want a rebind myself, just an additional option to double tap a direction for a dodge roll.

[arctic wharf]

I myself would not mind the option to rebind it to a dedicated key, but its of no major concern to me either.

[wanton atlas]

don't know if it would create some kind of OP stuff

so you can block and dodgeroll to easy

[gaunt harness]

#suggestions message Interesting idea, but wouldn't a throwable grenade make more sense than drinking it?

[tardy knot]

Stutter steppers in shambles, but nice as an option

Grenade could be a nice touch for sure. Create a nice little pillar of stank

[gaunt harness]

#suggestions message This was suggested earlier, and I agree. Having to risk running aground when sailing around an island to map it's coast feels quite bad. Also, it creates really annoying lines on the map between islands too. Would be nice if manning a ship gave a slight map coverage increase. Mind, the same can be said for elevation; if I stand on a really high mountain peak, it would be nice if the hight from sea level had some effect on how much I mapped too.

[wanton atlas]

haven't we had this discussion before?

the fog on the map reveal area is the same as spawn in area for objects?

[gaunt harness]

Yep, and I even said it was a suggestion previously brought up.
That said, I don't remember you mentioning the reveal area being related to object spawning.

[fast void]

#suggestions message I could be wrong, but I believe this is entirely up to the console port companies?

[wanton atlas]

we hire them and tell them what to do

[brisk matrix]

the inventory button is actually probably a better option for holding to do something else. its got no usage overlaps

is it a little awkward being all the way at the top of the button cluster? yes, does it make more sense it already being an "inventory" button to also be a quick usage shortcut? yes

[lofty wave]

#suggestions message
you can jump to keep moving while using the inventory or cycling the hotbar for a short time
The game remembers your previously selected slot when you re-open the inventory so if you remember where that is you can use items around it very quickly too

[fast void]

-# Hire them and tell them to "fix skills" 😏

I know you will probably delete this 😭😭

[wanton atlas]

I should hire them and "fix" your attitude 🤔

[fast void]

Emotion 404: Attitude not found.

[languid ibex]

Now Playing Coldplay - Fix You (Viking Metal Version)

[arctic wharf]

Love this comeback

[languid ibex]

Had a dream that a bow with infinite ammo existed in Valheim, and am thinking it could be cool to have a bow that shot arrows conjured from the pool of eitr a player has.

[gaunt harness]

We already have the ice staff, which is basically a machine gun crude bow.

Speaking of, it would be nice if the elemental skill also reduced the spread of the ice projectiles. For a weapon that has a rather long range, it has no accuracy unless you are point blank on normal-size mobs...
You've got a good chance hitting Queen or Fader though.

[languid ibex]

That doesn't utilize bow skill, and already having something similar isn't a huge point against such a bow.

[gaunt harness]

Are you just trying to free up an inventory space?

I like the idea. It's like a soft multi-class.

[languid ibex]

Nope, it'd still cost eitr which already has ranged options.

[gaunt harness]

gosh, you try and be funny even a little. No reaction.

[languid ibex]

Im on mobile with 1hand

Gotta be sparing

[rose swan]

This is a serious discord server. Any laughter will be met with severe punishment.

[wanton atlas]

why do anyone want this as a bloody emoticon?

@static quail

you can't see it if you react to things

[rose swan]

We got a catapult emoji before Dyrnwyn emoji 😭

[wanton atlas]

for the loves sake

no dyrwyn emoji

else you will just continue "we got X before U emoji"

[peak bronze]

||||

[shadow crow]

Who needs a Dyrnwyn emoji when you got 🔥

[wanton atlas]

https://giphy.com/gifs/thundercats-TYTsDyUBP7Z2U

or this glorious sword 👀

[gaunt harness]

Smiffe accidentally leaking the furry update.

[wanton atlas]

I may or may not have a 1:1 scale replica of the Sword of Omens on my wall

@rose swan

[rose swan]

Alright, I’ll be quiet now ❤️

[arctic wharf]

The Dogg has been appeased

[shadow crow]

For now

[wanton atlas]

It looks like Kylo rens light Saber 😅

[shadow crow]

No his had the little crossguard thingies too

[gaunt harness]

#suggestions message A sailing skill would be interesting, like something that helps with sharp turns, maintaining and rapidly gaining speed in different wind directions, and increasing the rudder speed. Maybe a slight durability increase for the ship too for those that like to stand and fight with maws and serpents - though I have no idea how that would work - especially in multiplayer.

That said Run, Swim, and Ride are not all that fun to train, so Sailing would just be more of the same. A skill that slowly goes up by moving forward.

Next TWIG upgrade: lay them flat on the ground and run on them to train running!

[wanton atlas]

You litterally cannot go faster with a boat because you would break the chunks loading in 😅

Or do you want to fall to the bottom of the sea, and the drown because the chunk you went into didn't load properly before you ended up inside it?

[fast void]

Make entire map one singular chunk.
Problem solved. 😏😏😏

[gaunt harness]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

The secret new biome! The bottom of the ocean!

[wanton atlas]

Yes. The performance and reputation 🤣

And the absolute first thing that would be suggested after we added a simning skill .. 💡 Optimize the boats

[rose swan]

Is that a suggestion? 🤔

Gotcha, you should post in the #suggestions channel (don’t forget the 💡 at the front!) so it doesn’t get lost in the discussions channel!

[eternal warren]

ohhh

my bad, Im moving the message

[rose swan]

All good, just wanted to make sure your suggestion gets seen

[eternal warren]

Thanks for noticing and the quick reply

[stiff stag]

Very doubtful just any tree would result in producing ashwood, rather than producing coal/charcoal instead.

[rose swan]

What even is ashwood?

Maybe it’s ancient wood, expect burnt

[stiff stag]

Actually, even if normal trees could produce ashwood under the conditions in the biome, the more glaring issue is the fact that a tree wouldn't even be able to grow there to begin with because of those very conditions.

[rose swan]

That’s a good point. If we were to have some sort of way to have renewable ashwood, might make more sense as a drop- similar to ancient wood.

[stiff stag]

The only thing I can think of at the moment is that perhaps some of the weapons the enemies use (like the bows from the marksmen) could be made either fully or partially out of ashwood, giving a potential justification for adding ashwood to their drops.

[languid ibex]

Why not have trees be plantable in ashlands, and within a time period turn to ashwood trees.

Maybe after an ember storm

Oh that was the suggestion

I pay attention I promise!

[rose swan]

Would probably maybe be silly to have a new mob that drops ashwood 🤔 like a charred abomination or something lol

[wanton atlas]

I find it a good idea to renew the un-renewable ashwood

[rose swan]

I agree, I think the tricky part is coming up with a way to achieve that in a way that makes sense 🤔

[gaunt harness]

If only there was some miscellaneous construction that could create a protective dome to prevent fire storms from destroying trees while they grow in the Ashlands... It's a long shot.

What would a machine like that even run on? The bones of the long dead?
Hmm... quite the conundrum.

*hint hint*

[stiff stag]

It's not just fire storms that prevent growth, the land itself and the lack of moisture in the environment are major factors as well that a shield generator has no effect on.

[gaunt harness]

Do you want to grow ashtrees or not?
There's literally magic tree sap in this world, just let the firestorms themselves be enough of a hurdle instead of coming up with 12 other reasons the thing you wanted to work cannot work.

There are literally trees in the real world that only grow after forest fires. We're not exactly treading unfamiliar territory here.

[stiff stag]

I never said I wanted scorched trees to grow, I was proposing and discussing alternative options for renewable ashwood due to the fact that normal trees naturally can't grow in the ashlands and for good reason. And do you have any valid arguments or is "magic exists, so anything goes" the best you've got? Because if that's all you can bring to the table I'm not going to waste my time discussing the topic with you any further.

[rose swan]

Slap this guy in the game and call it a day

[languid ibex]

I don't think that's necessarily solid anyways, plenty of things grow in the ashlands, fiddleheads, vineberries, and mushrooms.

[stiff stag]

There are plants in real life that can grow and survive without soil, that doesn't mean every plant is like that. That's really all that argument boils down to, trying to apply properties of some plant life to other kinds that don't have such properties.

[languid ibex]

I don't think it matters very much personally, it's up to the developers if their trees are capable of it and what properties they have.

[stiff stag]

Given that they already designed it so you can't grow normal trees in the ashlands, we already have an answer to that, which is also a large part of what I'm going off of here.

[languid ibex]

Ah, well anything can change, especially when the game isn't finished.

[stiff stag]

Honestly it's a bit silly to argue here. I feel most/everyone can agree on renewable ashwood, I just don't agree with the proposed implementation because there's far more reason and precedent for normal trees to not grow in the ashlands than there is for them to be able to. It's already an established mechanic that various crops/plants need specific environments to grow in. I just see it as a dead end to keep pushing for normal trees to grow in an environment they aren't conditioned to survive in and it only hurts/hinders the ultimate goal rather than helping it.

[languid ibex]

Oh I am not arguing, I am just letting you know that what's in place isn't always indicative of what could come later.

Not wanting that method is totally valid, but there's no reason to act like it could never happen because of how things currently are.

[unborn pecan]

@stiff stag There could be a use case for the fire blob bomb, chuck it at normal trees to turn them scorched, still requires you to get to Ashland's so would be balanced?

[wanton atlas]

https://giphy.com/gifs/art-club-mrperak-DIuf1nZCDvupSmBQ95

[stiff stag]

Maybe not specifically lava blob bombs since that might be too destructive, but I do like the route that idea is going in, some kind of object you can use to scortch normal trees using materials from ashlands.

[unborn pecan]

Maybe a fire axe like the dyrnwyn

[peak bronze]

I hear this gif.

[wanton atlas]

ooooOOOOOooo~~~~

[spiral ice]

What value does it add to Valheim to have ashwood trees made renewable? I genuinely don't see how it improves the game at all, unless you're wanting do it for aesthetics.

[wanton atlas]

it's a build material that isn't infinite

[lofty wave]

you would need to do a lot of building or throw a very large amount of ashwood away to run out

[peak bronze]

Yeah, despite being finite it is very plentiful.

[wanton atlas]

yeah. like 100k or so

[spiral ice]

But there's so much of it readily available that I still don't see the value.

It would be really cool for aesthetics though... 😶

[fast void]

Every material is infinite with world-hopping 😁

[eternal warren]

Oh my god, my suggestion made quite a discussion

Basically I would like to have renewel ash wood because I build a lot with it, and I have to keep moving my portal and minibase across the beach and gets anoying. Also I like the original landscape and it gets very ugly when you just choped all

Also I had the idea to plant normal trees because in ashlands there is normal burned trees and oak like (bigger). So you can use the normal trees to get all the shapes avaliable

In a lore friendly way we could say that the harsh and magic enviroment transforms the saplings in some way. Idk game logic maybe haha

[spiral ice]

Can trees grow under a shield in the Ashlands? Maybe they could become ashwood if the shield goes down.

[sonic musk]

https://tenor.com/view/fire-sword-beric-dondarrion-ready-game-of-thrones-fire-gif-8991361

[sonic musk]

how we will walk around in Valheim with my new suggestion XD

[serene harness]

Feedback as to why you guys didn't like my suggestion?

[rose swan]

I feel like it just adds bloat to a game that already has a lot of feedback regarding strict inventory space 🤔

Also, I think it messes up the rhythm. Player spawns, has a hard time hunting deer. Player fights boar instead, able to make bow. Now player can hunt deer more effectively (hypothetically)

[peak bronze]

There will be plentiful of boars when exploring in wider area, especially when finding those runestones with multiple boars around.

[runic plover]

The bow and spear are the two most effective methods of hunting deer early in the game. Locking both behind having already hunted a deer would dramatically slow progress at the start of the game. I could potentially see such a resource being used in deer armor, flint axe (because we can already craft stone), and maybe shields, but overall it just sounds like a needles complication, and one that wouldn't be particularly intuitive without a tutorial.

[fast void]

Spears, my beloved.

[rose swan]

Well said, way better than the way I tried explaining

[runic plover]

Agreed.

[gaunt harness]

We already have so many items with too few, uses.
I get what you mean by the bow competing with leather, but once you get past the meadow you will have the opposite problem: too much leather

Also... spear. Use a spear.

[lofty wave]

morgen heart, asksvin bladder and volture egg all in the same biome

now we have bear hide + bear paws in black forest too

why can't these be merged with other drops

[languid ibex]

I'd rather just more uses down the line rather than scenarios where I'm finding more of the same in new places.

[lofty wave]

I don't want them to be replaced with drops from earlier biomes, these are all enemies dropping multiple crafting ingredients or multiple cooking ingredient

[rose swan]

Kind of a case by case for me, I hope to see more uses for the morgen heart. But I wish the Volture egg was just cut out tbh 🐔

[lofty wave]

I don't think an enemy should have more than one unique crafting or cooking drop

[languid ibex]

That would really be peculiar, especially in the case of cooking recipes.

[rose swan]

What enemy(s) is that the case for? I know Volture is one 🤔

Morgens of course is heart and sinew

[lofty wave]

bears are the only one I can think of from earlier than ashlands

[languid ibex]

Ashlands goods are hard to form those opinions on at the moment, plenty of recipes in the following biomes have included items from the previous.

Not to mention retroactive additions.

[fast void]

@peak bronze I don't think it should go over most armors tbh.
Should just stick up the neck and be under them unless you're wearing like.. Bear.

[peak bronze]

Hmm, yeah true that.

[marble sparrow]

'Rare Majestic Moose Encounter in the Black Forest' I wanted to comment that it should be a passive creature. You shouldn't be able to kill it or get anything from it. I also think that if you try to kill it, you just die instantly and wake up in your bed or at spawn XD. It should be so rare that not all worlds even spawn them and there should be a contest to take the best photo with it :} And if you offer it a specific food, mead, plant or trinket that it will gift you something special in return. If you try to kill it, it despawns. If you try to offer it things you can only get it wrong 3 times before it runs away and you have to find it again to offer it something different.

[lament zinc]

We got deer, boar and bears in the Black Forest.
IMHO that's more than enough.

IF we should get more animals in another biome, I think having one more in the mountains (Goats!) should be more appropriate.

[gray canopy]

Goats has been suggested several times before. So has moose, but I did it anyway.

[lament zinc]

Ah, but I wasn't suggestion goats.

I brought them up as an example for one more animal that might be added to the mountains.
If the Devs decide to add Lemmings to the mountains, it's ok with me too.
If they decide to add falcons to the mountains, it's ok with me too.

Also, I wasn't replying to the suggestion, but to the post above mine.

[gray canopy]

And lf the devs put a moose in the Black Forest, you wouldnt approve their decision?

[lament zinc]

I wouldn't.
With bears, deer, trolls, 3 kinds of greydwarfs, the occasional boar and occasional greyling. And even necks; there's more than enough creatures in the Black Forest.

[peak bronze]

Mountain could use for some more mobs, if it will come to that.

I agree that black forest has now good amount of mobs since bears were added.

[lofty wave]

i don’t mind if it gets more creatures or not, it needs one more health food

[wanton atlas]

Afaik. we don't have any kind of mountain living animals overall in sweden that resembles a Goat 🤔

they all went to that crazy town and shot it up with RPG's and stuff

[lament zinc]

What. You mean you folks aren't the GOAT? 😮

[wanton atlas]

🤔

[sonic musk]

Looking at an old post of mine where I counted the number of unique creatures, not minibosses, in each biome (yes birds count, if they didn't count they wouldn't exist, but fish don't count they don't have a healthbar XD)

-Meadows 6 (deer, boar, birds, greylings, neck, draugr)
-BF 10 (deer, crows, troll, bear, greydwarf, brute, shaman, skeleton, rancid remains, ghost)
-Swamp 9 (surtling, skeleton, draugr, draugr elite, abomination, leech, ooze, big ooze, wraith)
-Mountain 9 (wolf, drake, golem, bat, ulv, fenring, cultist, drauger, skeletons)
-Plains 8 (tar, vile, deathsquito, lox, fuling, berserker, shaman, birds)
-Mistlands 8 (seeker, soldier, brood, dverger rogue, mage, gjall, ticks, hare)
-Ashlands 14 (twitcher, warrior, archer, asksvin, valkyrie, dverger, warlock, summoned twitcher, skug, morgen, blob, ash crow, bonemaw, volture)

looks like mountains and mistlands are tied as 2nd least populated after meadows 🤔 I may have forgotten a creature somewhere but this list is updated. I think I got them all

UPDATED forgot hares. Mountains really is the 2nd least populated
Update 2: forgot draugr village, draugr and skeleton castle in mountain, ashlands forgot 3 creatures omg. Ash crow in abandoned ruins, bonemaw, and volture oops!

[wanton atlas]

you can also count the trophies 🤔

oh. counting birds and such?

oh

[eager garden]

Some creatures have variants that are different enough to be counted separately. They may share the same prefab but they don't play the same ingame.
Archer and melee skeletons.
Archer and melee draugrs.
Spear and melee fulings. (Melee ones have multiple weapon types but this doesn't change the gameplay much).
Ice, fire, heal dvergr mages.

[sonic musk]

True. But atm they are not truly an independent creature, the way a Seeker and a Seeker Soldier are (btw a 2* Seeker is wayyyyy scarier than a 2* Soldier. One can fly and decide to one tap you randomly, while the other gives you 7-10 business days notice before attacking XD)

Wow I guess the mountains really could use another mob. Made me think of a suggestion

[gaunt harness]

#suggestions message Yes, please! It's really annoying having to dunk yourself in the sea to stop the ship from moving.
Especially when trying to fish!

For multiplayer it's compounded, because everyone has to jump in for it to work.
Doesn't have to be a literal anchor, but a button to press to stop

[wanton atlas]

for the sake of what reason?

[gaunt harness]

#suggestions message Do you mean a furniture piece telescope that just stands there, or a literal tool to look into the sky with? I'm not sure what the use-case of such a thing is.

[gaunt harness]

That's still a lot of creatures for each biome, though... I'm not sure what purpose adding even more creatures would have except bloating our loot boxes even more. There are already a lot of items that have singular uses, and adding more mobs just to achieve parity with other biomes isn't necessarily good game design

[wanton atlas]

having even numbers between biomes is just a unhealthy feeling

if you must have equal numbers of monsters in a biome

you might also want the exact same weapons in biomes

and then the same items

and the same mineable resources in each biome

and then you want something something spiral totally out of control

[gaunt harness]

Swamp biome fist weapons!
Slime fists! Blunt and poison damage!

[wanton atlas]

in a very unhealthy manner

ok you don't even try to listen

https://giphy.com/gifs/mlb-table-mascot-flipping-1rSN0ECFMIKZQcGEYc

[gaunt harness]

I was joking!

[sonic musk]

It's not something you'd notice much in game, but more when you analyze it, I suppose. And you're right, new mob = new purpose. People were complaining bears don't have enough recipes associated with them, so fair point

[gaunt harness]

I was gonna bring that up as an example too

[sonic musk]

But I wanna be OCD😆

[wanton atlas]

https://giphy.com/gifs/panda-angry-breaking-EPcvhM28ER9XW

reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[sonic musk]

If the new mob is the Blood Wolf I recommended, the drops can be the same but the Blood Wolf has a unique trophy, obviously. Then, bloat is not an issue

[wanton atlas]

100% bloat

[sonic musk]

How about this, if it's the fox instead, the fox tail can be used as a recipe in a Luck Trinket. Then we're back to no bloat😃

[gaunt harness]

I like foxes. I hope they are a DN mob. 🦊

[sonic musk]

My fox gif was removed😩

[wanton atlas]

yeah. don't spam

[sonic musk]

Anyways, thank god I'm not a game designer I'd be so OCD. Every biome would have the same creature count and Smiffe is right Valheim would be so bloated😆 but... but 1 more creature isn't bloat, right🥺

[small socket]

make 7 copy of each mob, each one a different color

[sonic musk]

Slime Rancher😂

[gaunt harness]

a surprisingly common way to place-hold mobs early in development

It's also how many Final Fantasy games work.

[small socket]

pink mage

[gaunt harness]

#suggestions message I love the dungeons, but can you please elaborate. What would a meadow dungeon entail?

Crawling into a badge den?
A fox hole?

[ember lily]

Also about meadows dungeons, idrt they would be very interesting without adding new loot/enemies

[languid ibex]

It also wouldn't serve a purpose, which is important.

[wanton atlas]

indeed

what would be the point?

you have villages in medows to search through. same as plains and ashlands

[fast void]

#suggestions message You mean Draugr Villages?

[sonic musk]

wait a minute, I forgot Draugrs and Skeletons spawn in mountain castles. I would like to apologize to Smiffe he was right. I'll check the wiki and accurately update my discussion channel list, but I'll leave the suggestion unedited

[sonic musk]

okay, list is fully updated. I intentionally left off minibosses and bosses, they aren't going to be found on each island of that biome, generally. I can't believe I forgot 3 ENTIRE CREATURES in Ashlands 😲 well my god Ashlands has 14 unique mobs. No wonder it always felt cramped and the most populated biome in the game. It has enough creatures to be 2 biomes in 1. Meadows + Mistlands has the same number of creatures as Ashlands, that's mindblowing. I actually hope DN has similar number honestly, bring on the snow themed creatures!

Also interestingly, the wiki doesn't list 'seeker brood' 'dverger rogue' or 'dverger mage' as mobs in Mistlands, even though they are.

[wanton atlas]

@jagged sigil because they don't have any legs 😄

[jagged sigil]

give them legs

mini moders

[shadow crow]

Who needs legs to rest on the ground? Hast thou not heard of snakes?

[jagged sigil]

a man of culture

[shadow crow]

wo-*

[peak bronze]

A wo- of culture?

[shadow crow]

Sure

[jagged sigil]

man as in mankind

[peak bronze]

I recall @lofty wave finding unused idle animations for drakes somewhere.

[wanton atlas]

no clue

[peak bronze]

He can confirm if my memory is correct.

[wanton atlas]

🤷

we probably have tons of those

[lofty wave]

spawn hatchling Humanoid.m_flying::false

[lapis sluice]

How involved would it be to add map viewing to cartography table, then a corresponding a map slider world modifier?
I'm thinking it would be a nice option that would compliment the immersive preset if you could only access/update your map when clicking on a cartography table. Seems like it would be fairly trivial to add in no?

[royal lily]

i dont understand the desire to have a map on a no map run

[wanton atlas]

I'd personally guess it's like "half and half" 🤔

like. you can only see the map at the map table. but no minimap available

[pulsar perch]

i think it comes from people wanting a hand held map or a drawn 1

[royal lily]

Yeah I can see how it would be like immersion-light. I think the most fun part of no map is using a map you've drawn out by exploring.

People also tend to just bring cart tables with them

[languid ibex]

Can you not just set the rule for yourself to only check the map on that table?

Can you unbind M? 😅

[royal lily]

Yeah you can and I dont bring one with me lol

[languid ibex]

There we go, it's already implemented then, just unbind M, and you've got nomap with a cartography table.

[royal lily]

The no map option works for me

[languid ibex]

Yeah, just speaking in regards to those that want a cartography table in nomap. You made that clear it wouldn't apply to you. 🙂‍↕️

[royal lily]

oh i get it now. but in that case youd have to still rebind it at the cart table and trust everyone is doing the same

[languid ibex]

Can't you open the map with the interact button at the table?

[brisk matrix]

Ive thought it would be interesting to try a mode where you can open the map but it doesnt update to show where you have explored until you use a cartography table. sort of a checkin system to write updates to your personal map

[brisk matrix]

not with nomap modifier on

[languid ibex]

I have been saying, leave it on, unbind M.

[brisk matrix]

cant unbind on controller

[languid ibex]

I am saying M though.

[lament zinc]

@winter ravine You will have to play ASKA for that.

[robust light]

Why are you against it? Have you even ever eaten Toshniku at all, have you seen how it fizzes...

[glad cargo]

What would be the point of a "diarrhea berry"?

Also, haha poop joke is waaaay too juvenile

[robust light]

Not FROM, but FOR

[glad cargo]

huh

[robust light]

This effect would be worth adding to diversify the gameplay. For example, from unbalanced nutrition.

[stiff stag]

Just for reference they also suggested the ability to give birth in game awhile back. Just a garden variety troll you can block and ignore.

[glad cargo]

LMFAO alright

[royal lily]

im nto entirely sure on this one. i thought it was just record/read discoveries and then you had to press your hotkey to open the map

[robust light]

It is inappropriate to slander me. A person is capable of making their own conclusions. And the fact that you disagree with the idea does not mean that it is bad

[cold raven]

AutoHotkey used to be useful for remapping controller inputs. Haven't needed it in years, so I'm not sure what the current state of the program is.

[pale drum]

#suggestions message Best thing I've ever seen in the suggestions channel ngl

[errant mauve]

Given many of those suggestions... people are already eating diarreha berry

[spiral ice]

It could even use the same sound effect!

[stiff stag]

It's not slander, just stating facts that are plain for anyone to see. If you don't want to be viewed as a troll then don't engage in troll-like behavior, simple as that.

[spiral ice]

Wait... your diarrhea berry idea is a serious one?

[stiff stag]

That honestly makes it far worse if they were being serious.

[spiral ice]

With greydwarves, no less (unless I'm thinking of someone else).

[spiral ice]

Honestly, I gave it a like because I thought it was a troll suggestion. (I've also downvoted it.)

[spiral ice]

"It is not [slander]... Slander is spoken. In print, it's libel."

• J. Jonah Jameson

[runic plover]

That is true.

[fast void]

Unrelated Spider-Man quote:

"IT IS NOT, I RESENT THAT!
Slander is spoken. In print it's libel."

😏

[fast void]

Ah you beat me to it before Discord loaded, lol.

@tame helm you know you can just use your Rested Buff timer to do the exact same thing right?

[stiff stag]

Also odd to make it a trinket. Need to read this sundial? Too bad, you need to gain adrenaline before doing that.

[rose swan]

I also need to be hyped up on adrenaline to read

[small socket]

rested buff timer isnt as exact as everyone pretends because if you walk back inside at all it will reset the time after waking up

[wanton atlas]

yup

[rose swan]

I just go off gut feelings. Looks like it might be dark soon, guess I need to head home or setup camp! 🫡

[fast void]

Imagine walking back inside 😏

[languid ibex]

I think I enjoy that night/day aren't easy to track to be honest, players could stand to miss creatures that only spawn at night if they're too precise with the cycling.

[sonic musk]

in most biomes yes but in the Ashlands it makes a HUGE difference between day and night. You normally see your average cast of wacky characteres but when a 2* Asksvin can just be there, and chase you across the continent, it's best to know about it being a possibility

[royal lily]

If everyone / you have slept on the server, press escape, last save 21 m is night

[wanton atlas]

nothing wrong with not going into a fight you cannot win

[sonic musk]

Asksvins are the worst at night. They give you no time to rest and push your stamina to the max. 1 time of recovering stamina at a bad time and you can die

[languid ibex]

That only helps my point, I would be super excited to see a 2 star asksvin, they're not really too difficult imo.

[sonic musk]

Asksvin is the highest cause of death for me because of their really high speed and determination. They do not want to lose track of you or allow you to recover at all. Any other creature will take some time to do a long backswing attack, like a Valkyrie, but Asksvin just keeps going

[languid ibex]

If you have one tamed already, that's some good amount of food they'll drop.

[sonic musk]

yes but with a time trinket, you can do that on purpose, it doesn't change your behavior if you intend to see one

[languid ibex]

It does if you don't know they exist.

[sonic musk]

it's similar to your comment earlier about unbinding M for no map with cartography. If you don't want to leave Ashlands when sun sets because you have a watch, simply decide to stay. But for the people that don't want to risk it, the watch would give players the ability to predictably be out at daytime and return before it's dangerous

or just don't craft the trinket. There are multiple ways to not change the game for yourself, if you desire the current playstyle

[languid ibex]

I never mentioned myself.

I'm speaking on what could occur if players can become too precise with their day/night cycle awareness.

[sonic musk]

Oh don't be silly now. You are giving that advice to people who want to go mapless with cartography. This is the same thing. You personally want to go without accurate time telling, just don't craft the trinket, it's the same philosophy as 'unbind M', and it's good advice really

play the game the way that gives you the most enjoyment, that's a good philosophy

[languid ibex]

I'm just theorizing, you think it's silly that's all well and good I don't mind.

[sonic musk]

I actually really liked your take on that subject

[languid ibex]

I build sundials so I can tell time, but that still results in moments where I'll be dealing with the night because I can't be near my sundial. Carrying that information around could result in players avidly avoiding night spawns because of bad experiences.

[sonic musk]

If I insulted you I apologize, it was not meant that way. Just that if you enjoy the current vagueness in time telling, you have the autonomy to keep it that way, and that's perfectly valid. I personally would love a time-telling trinket and would greatly benefit from that

[languid ibex]

I'm not insulted, I literally said I don't mind. 👌

[sonic musk]

I saw your game that you developed and posted a link to here somewhat recently and it was cool. I understand you put a lot of thought into your decision making so I wanted to be clear, I'm not just being spiteful by saying that. I do myself hunt night time spawns on purpose, but the majority of the time I know that being out will lead to long drawn out fights with very strong creatures, and I don't want that experience often, so with my playstyle, I would rather know when that is going to happen, exactly, and not guess

[languid ibex]

That's absolutely valid, I just do have concerns with players accidentally missing content, especially when they aren't taking in information from public resources.

I think encountering something you don't want to fight is more exciting gameplay than a regimented sleep schedule.

[wanton atlas]

🤔

[spiral ice]

Time keeping is very easy to do by the sun's position. It goes from East to South to West. Also, Yggdrasil can be referenced to determine direction, so you know what part of the sky the sun is in.

Also just my personal opinion, but if you're spending a chunk of time in the Ashlands without heading home and you're out late enough to be taken by the night, you're doing something wrong. 😄

[stiff stag]

Overall it feels very redundant and unnecessary and should have very little demand given all of the existing navigation options available that already more or less serve its function in some form. Not to mention it faces the same issue that existing options do (namely with cloudy or stormy weather where objects used for navigation such as the sun are obstructed).

[eternal wyvern]

Don't agree with a "wrong" way to play an open world sp game, but yeah a watch seems unnecessary

[spiral ice]

I suppose I should qualify that statement with "unless you plan to be out and about in the Ashlands at night..."

[eternal wyvern]

That's what I do a lot 🤣

[unborn pecan]

@unique glen There is technically a way to make corner roof caps, your roof needs to be at least 1&1/2 tiles not just the caps though. Here's a link for reference https://www.reddit.com/r/valheim/s/O3GSp1XN8S

[stiff stag]

#suggestions message There would have to be a significant reason outside of gameplay purposes to explain why they didn't sawn naturally prior to yagluth's defeat. Also why they would show up when the thing they are attracted to (the torn spirit) isn't present out in the natural world.

[glad cargo]

I guess you can say that Yagluth's death broke the barrier between the living and the dead and now wisps of fallen soldiers roam Valheim looking for Valhalla

You can find any narrative excuse, really. I kind of like the idea, doesn't even need to be a rare phenomenon

[elder summit]

troll hide stack limit suggestion has been done before but I only found the previous suggestion by the time I'd finished typing, and the last suggestion was from over a year ago so I figured I'd post it anyways

[shadow crow]

I wouldn’t mind bigger stacks or more uses or both

[elder summit]

yeah, it just becomes such an inventory clog once you pass the black forest

a troll rug like the bear rug that has its big ass head on the rug would be really funny

[shadow crow]

As a lifelong hoarder, I hate that I’ve gotten to the point of just dumping it in the obliterator

[fast void]

You will always get to this point eventually though 😁

[gaunt harness]

#suggestions message Why did you make it so expensive, given its extremely limited use-case?
And why did you give it nerfs to 'balance' it?

[languid ibex]

Some people see a suggestion channel and think it's their chance to develop the game 😅

That suggestion would get so much further if it were simplified.

[gaunt harness]

It already makes you lose out on a trinket effect for the ability to see the time more accurately. That in and of itself is a huge offset. May as well make it really cheap.
One stone, one stick, and one scrap leather. BAM, a leather wrist-sundial.
And not sure why you'd make it weather-dependent either. That just adds a lot of programming complexity (well, slightly)

#suggestions message I had to look these up. We don't have those in the viking lands...
I think they are rather unique to the climate of the crocodile territories. You only get them in climates where you get tornadoes.

[rose swan]

With that knowledge, it’s safe to assume to crocodiles are the reason for tornadoes. Interesting 🤔

[gaunt harness]

Crocodile confirmed Eitr users?

[languid ibex]

Sharknado 3: Let's Croc!

[wanton atlas]

sharknado 3 confirmed?

[stiff stag]

Scary thing is it would actually be sharknado 8: Let's Croc!, since 6 films already exist and a 7th is being worked on.

[wanton atlas]

no ty

no mr beast scams please

[rose swan]

Lol what?? There’s gotta be a niche cult following for this 😂

[languid ibex]

Wow, my fact for the day is both curious and underwhelming.

[glad cargo]

Wait what? There are 6 Sharknado films????

[languid ibex]

I guess they must be finanancially successful.

[arctic wharf]

wild convo

[wanton atlas]

https://giphy.com/gifs/syfy-sharks-3o6Zt11fY5QJFLvgM8

[eternal wyvern]

Sharks confirmed in the deep north?

Waterfalls & geysers confirmed in the deep north?

[wanton atlas]

I can confirm, ||you are not thinking what I am thinking||

https://giphy.com/gifs/pinky-and-the-brain-5frOV2H3ol8Uo

[spiral ice]

I think there was a tradition of shark-hunting in late first-millennium Scandinavia.

[shadow crow]

And then fermenting it.

[spiral ice]

Shark mead! 😁

[shadow crow]

https://www.worldatlas.com/culture/hakarl-iceland-s-buried-rotten-fermented-and-dried-delicacy.html

[bitter lodge]

@umbral dagger Pistols don't fit into the game at all.

[umbral dagger]

They're single-shot, after all. The Vikings disappeared in the 11th century; gunpowder was invented in the 9th (I know the Scandinavian peoples didn't have it). Maybe you are right, idk

[umbral dagger]

Okay, I have a better idea

[gaunt harness]

If Sharknado 8 doesn't have octopuses in the tornado as well, what are they doing?

[wanton atlas]

more sharks

[gaunt harness]

"There are 8 of them now!"

[fast void]

Save those for Octwister.
Spinoff movies.

[umbral dagger]

Can you rate it pls , i think its a good idea

[wanton atlas]

who are you talking to?
it's your own suggestion

[gaunt harness]

I'm not a fan of eating roadkill, so eating beached whales don't feel like much of a step up.

[languid ibex]

They also already gave a thumbs up

[fast void]

Also let the whales be. They have suffered enough.

[umbral dagger]

Ok, idk

[rose swan]

Seems like an odd way to get an organic resource 🤔
Soft tissue is an exception because it has extensive lore involved, but simply harvesting an animal that way seems like it wouldn’t be engaging.

Hunting living whales, sure that’s fine, because there could be some challenge or logistics involved

[spiral ice]

We already have gunpowder in Valheim (explosive payload), so I really don't see how a hand-held powder weapon would be out of place. I for one would love a bomb bolt for the crossbow.

[winged elk]

Can you use obsidian to make black windows? That would be cool

[rose swan]

Seems like a Pandora’s box situation. Introduce black powder pistols, now there’s a weapon class for it, then rifles, then cannons, etc.

Would make for a pretty cool mod though, I’m sure it exists

[spiral ice]

Totally agree that Valheim does not need a new weapon class in the final biome.

I personally would rather just have current weapons use powder. Maybe add a gunpowder crossbow, some powder projectiles, and a powder bomb (basically a grenade).

[rose swan]

Ahhh gotcha, I think I see what you’re getting at! Could be cool 👀

Reminds me of bomb arrows in Zelda TP lol

[peak bronze]

Explosive bolts for crossbows maybe? Slight AoE opportunity for them and could use proustite powder/sulphite.

[azure cairn]

We don't need firearms, we have a shotgun magic staff. Fluff it that way, maybe you'll get some traction.

[gaunt harness]

#suggestions message I like this. I want to drape every wall in my base with troll hide and mount troll trophies. Hopefully, with enough of their head and skins adorning my base they'll finally take a hint and stop trying to smash my bees up.

[ember lily]

#suggestions message I really want this or some other way like Hildir telling you which ones you could do atm, rn you can't tell at all how hard they are

[gaunt harness]

#suggestions message Why would drinking a mead make your weapons do elemental damage?
I feel like you've misunderstood what drinking means.

[gaunt harness]

#suggestions message I can kind of see where you're going with this, but what you've done now is created a gem that is useless against many mobs, and situationally useful against others. The other two stones are always useful, so whatever change you suggest should also always be useful.

Yeah, I agree that the current usecase is very lacklustre, as you're competing with your own natural health regeneration, and avoiding getting one-tapped, to maximise the utility of your damage buff of the bloodstone. I don't use them for that reason, because I think the payoff is far from worth it when I can get more consistently useful damage from the other two weapons, or just use Eitr.

[languid ibex]

Even the bloodstone has ways it can be utilized at all times, using a protection spell and eating bukeperries can result in extremely high damage and trivialize enemies with large health pools.

[ember lily]

#suggestions message yeah, tbh the wind arrow on the map wouldn't even have to change imo

[shadow crow]

Also true

[barren oasis]

I think a lifesteal effect would make the most sense on bloodstone

[spiral ice]

Another really interesting take I've seen is that they would have a flat damage bonus (something big, like 30 or 40%), but each attack would deal a small amount of damage (maybe 5) to you.

[shadow crow]

I take plenty of damage on my own, I don't need the help 🤣

[spiral ice]

I do like the idea since it specifically favors slow, heavy-hitting weapons (like Ripper and Slayer). Iolite and Jade work best on fast attacking weapons (more attacks = more procs).

[fast void]

If we are arguing "most" sense, I believe that goes to adrenaline increase.

[fast void]

Is ling proc per attack or per hit? 🤔

[spiral ice]

I honestly don't remember. I'm not sure if the idea was posted here or on a website.

[fast void]

If it is per hit, stuff like Slayer is great, even being slow. Because your swing arc across multiple enemies gives similar proc chance to faster weapons 🤷‍♂️

[spiral ice]

Although, if there are enough enemies in the Ashlands grouped together that you're proccing lightning regularly, you shouldn't be engaging with a greatsword. You should be running away or baiting them to attack each other. 😅

[fast void]

Why? Slayer is great for that. And if you rock Mantle it blocks as good as any shield.

[sonic musk]

you drink a potion that brings out your intert magical affinity towards fire. Eating eitr food is the only way to use magic at all, which is introducting magical properties into your body through food, and with a potion you are enhancing those properties with liquid. It made perfect sense to me, thinking of it like that

how do I reply to a suggestion in this channel?

[worn parrot]

copy link from suggestion, paste link 👍

[languid ibex]

Inert affinity? That's doing some assuming, even with eitr you still wield magic through weaponry.

[sonic musk]

#suggestions message
I read the idea and I really liked it at first, but you have to understand, any tool that directly competes with the pickaxe to dig holes, one of the first (and most exciting tools you unlock) needs to have a fantastic, really new ability or use. If you told me 'the shovel makes deep holes quickly' or something, even then it's good but replaces a basic tool. I don't hate the idea at all, just takes up too much of what the pickaxe's niche fills

[spiral ice]

Slayer's follow-up attacks are way too slow to be of much use. Even 0-star creatures in the Ashlands deal 30+ damage in one hit against maxed armor. If you're not moving, you're likely getting hit a lot, and facetanking is a bad idea in that biome.

It's sad too. Greatswords are so cool, but in Valheim, they suck.

[sonic musk]

of course, that's true. It's not like the devs say that, but with you being totally unable to use magic before it, it makes me think you're not someone who can't use it, you just need to have help before you can use magic, that's why I said it was inert

[worn parrot]

I'd be happy if it just replanted berries.
IRL Vikings had shovels. It just felt like a proper use case.

[languid ibex]

It isn't exactly inert, it's more of a dosage, we don't have a baseline eitr pool after our first time eating eitr foods.

[sonic musk]

if it's a higher biome tool that can't break rocks, but can terraform very efficiently, then that's a great tool, that's all I'm thinking

[sonic musk]

Omni, I am not addicted to the magical berries okay? It's not a phase, I promise. I can quit any time I want

[worn parrot]

Historical Viking shovels were usually just made of wood. Iron requirement would just keep it a little harder to acquire.

[languid ibex]

Magical berries?

[sonic musk]

well you make magic food out of berries a lot later on right?

[languid ibex]

Oh you mean vineberries

[sonic musk]

yeah hehe

I gave the inert magical properties explanation as 1 way vikings can gain imbued effects for a fire, lightning, or poison potion like the suggestion mentioned earlier, basically

[languid ibex]

It's not exactly a viking sim to be fair, and between the hoe and the pickaxe, a lot of those bases are covered. Planting berries is also not something the developers want, as they've mentioned here countless times, they want players to forage for goods in earlier biomes.

[worn parrot]

That tracks. Gotta get the Viking step count in.
I'd never make an argument for sim qualities in the game with goblins and zombies and walking skeletons and stuff.

Just exploring a precedent. Good to know though.

[languid ibex]

It just seems like some extras to me, if they want extra fire damage to be possible or become the normal, just increase it on the weaponry and carry on. No additional items in menus or inventory needed.

[sonic musk]

you do make a good point. Crafting stations are already encumbered with recipes

[spiral ice]

I'd love to see Topaz and Moonstone added for fire and ice weapons (like the other gemstone ones).

[worn parrot]

is there a spot I can reference to what has been explicitly stated won't get in, before I suggest other things? or would I have to do many searches

[languid ibex]

Gemstones are a bit of a lackluster addition for me I'll admit, while magic being late is all well and good, gemstones feel like they could be grandfathered in much much earlier without any imbalance issues.

[languid ibex]

Just search a common term before posting and see what has been said, mainly by Smiffe.

[worn parrot]

lmao I never realized it was such a hotbutton. that was a fun search. TIL

the insight is appreciated

[languid ibex]

Here is one suggestion that was made with berry bushes being a cosmetic plant, keeping utility of biomes present. #suggestions message

[worn parrot]

I'd searched "shovel" before posting, but not "bushes." One never really knows what the failure point of an interested idea is until it's out there.

[worn parrot]

this is a nice one. 👍

[sonic musk]

#suggestions message
I agree the harpoon should be used more. It's been many moons since I used a harpoon. But mounting flying enemies I'm against

[languid ibex]

Absolutely, and even then nothing is concrete. We can mostly only theorize and speculate here, even some things turned down did eventually come to pass. Bears and inventory expansion discussions come to mind having recently become a thing.

[crude nacelle]

Harpoons are often used in fantasy to fight flying enemies. The only reason I say mount is because it'd probably be quite difficult to code climbing up the harpoon's rope to hack at the enemy from below. But generally speaking I don't see an issue with a melee player taking the fight to the sky against a flying enemy. It sounds fun.

[sonic musk]

I don't mind flying, but flying while dangling from an enemy does not sound appealing to me. The game also has fall damage, so if the enemy takes a sharp turn into a mountain, do you die instantly from fall damage? Things like this ruin the idea of dangling off an enemy. Riding properly on their back, I have no issue with that. But dangling is problematic

[crude nacelle]

I just assumed that'd be a calculated risk you'd take. For example I wouldn't dangle from a drake who's on the side of a cliff, but I'd dangle from a drake who's on fairly even ground And dangling from a vulture, as long as the direction they move is consistently away from you and therefore reliably controlled, would be pretty safe. Maybe you could extend or shorten the rope to gain/lose altitude.

[crude nacelle]

But also the point is that you're cleverly using a dangerous situation. Much like dodging a troll's attacks at the last second to have it mine copper for you is a sort of mastery over a troll... understanding which way a flying enemy will drag you and for how long so that you can use it as a quick form of transport would be a sort of mastery over the flying enemy.

[languid ibex]

I would definitely want more of a reason than that to bring a harpoon around with me, drakes are basically one shot.

[sonic musk]

I like the physics in Valheim as much as the next person, but dangling off an enemy does not sound appealing to me, in any form. If we fly, and truly fly, not just glide, I'd rather it be a proper flying mount, on the back of a creature, rather than stabbing it and trying to maneuver from there

[crude nacelle]

pinning a valkyrie/morgen in place while you're fighting other stuff.

[languid ibex]

Pinning it to yourself?

[crude nacelle]

no, in my suggestion i said that the currently un-used special attack for the harpoon could be used to stab the ground and tether the harpooned enemy to that spot. using durability instead of stamina to keep it in place

[sonic musk]

You get some gliding with the feather cape. You can jump from a tall height and float, with great control, to another place. But maintained flight I think should be more uniform than relying on an enemy to control your movements. If every single drake always flew the same way, maybe, but they take unusual routes and then trying to make that a flying experience just feels like a side quest that doesn't bring much to the game except a few lucky unlikely interactions that most of the time lead to your next respawn

[sonic musk]

this idea I like a lot. A huge part of why I gave the suggestion a thumbs up

[languid ibex]

Ah I missed that bit, I am unsure what you're stabbing into the ground with at that point, the harpoon would be in the target.

[crude nacelle]

that's why in my suggestion I said that they should flee in the opposite direction of your character. so that it is a reliable direction

[crude nacelle]

idk, add a hook to the rope that sits on your hip

or I guess a pin

[languid ibex]

Anywhere but where you are is a viable direction at that point though.

[crude nacelle]

exactly opposite, because it's a flying enemy it has nothing it has to path around

[languid ibex]

What is opposite?

[crude nacelle]

if we are on two sides of a circle, and i'm directly north of the circle, and you're directly south, and i harpoon you, you'd fly south and drag me along with you. moving us both south

[languid ibex]

So it creates a one direction only situation with the axis between you and the target?

[crude nacelle]

yes. in practise it's just the flying enemy trying to get away after being harpooned, and starts draining your stamina. but if you're close enough that the tether is short and you have a lot of stamina, in theory you could be carried a fair distance away. which could be fun

[languid ibex]

That sounds incredibly limited and costly for risky travel at not so fast of a pace.

[crude nacelle]

could always have them fly a bit faster while fleeing. but also imagine you're sailing towards the ashlands

(in a word where you're not limited to fists in water), and you're knocked off your boat. there's a bonemaw serpent between you and your boat. but you see a vulture flying overhead. so you harpoon it and it carries you the short distance to shore

but still, it would be pretty niche to only carry it for that purpose. which is why I think you should also be able to pin enemies in place with it. there could even be different types of harpoons with different special attacks. one could pin, one could pull, one could mount enemies.

[languid ibex]

It sounds a bit unintuitive, why would they be scared, those things will hunt you for ages with stronger gear hitting them.

Also extremely situational

[crude nacelle]

if you were a dragon and your wing was impaled by a harpoon that's yanking jaggedly through your wing, would you panic?

[languid ibex]

Sure, but that doesn't necessarily happen. The same could be said for any damage, arrows, bolts, magic, and melee.

[crude nacelle]

the harpoon is lodged inside and actively tugging

as the player is tugging it

[languid ibex]

Okay, arrows and the like are also actively hurting.

[crude nacelle]

seems intuitive that a bound enemy would try to break the bind

[languid ibex]

It'd be less painful to rush the target and take stress off the wound.

[crude nacelle]

hard to think clearly when someone's yanking a stick that's impaled in your body

[languid ibex]

Or when you're impaled by multiple projectiles or wounded by sharp enchanted weaponry

But they do it alright

[sonic musk]

the problem is Voltures don't do that. They go towards you not away, and aggressively towards. Some of the most aggressive flying enemies out there. So their pattern changes entirely

[crude nacelle]

sure, but there's a big difference between the pain of having been stabbed a moment ago and having someone wrenching a knife in the wound

[sonic musk]

yeah Omni basically said what I was trying to say

[crude nacelle]

again, this is under the assumption that harpooning a flying enemy would overwriting their usual pathing and have them try to flee exactly opposite the direction you are when you impale them

[languid ibex]

That's not really applicable, there's no reactions for such things aside from staggering

[crude nacelle]

so if the vulture is between you and the shore when you harpoon them, it'd carry you to shore.

[sonic musk]

the more you say this, the more it makes me think of the hookshot from Ocarina of Time, which makes me want that in Valheim, but not as a harpoon hitting enemies, but as a totally separate tool, aiming at structures. That's actually very cool

[crude nacelle]

? they don't think either, but if we're using logic to get inside a monster's head. it hurts a lot more when someone keeps twisting the knife. and it hurts a lot more when someone yanks the harpoon.

actually that's another good point. a grappling harpoon would be kinda cool

[languid ibex]

Okay, as does someone rallying countless arrows into your head as you approach

There's no reactions for this anywhere else, hence it becoming unintuitive

[crude nacelle]

they die after countless arrows. they live after 1 harpoon.

[crude nacelle]

boars being set on fire flee. low health serpents flee. all this changes is that the enemy moves in a fixed direction

[languid ibex]

So now what you're describing as so painful it'd change how they operate, is now something they will calculate? It really seems like the logic is twisting.

[sonic musk]

https://tenor.com/view/link-legend-of-zelda-ocarina-of-time-terminal-montage-water-temple-gif-400687044786741252

#suggestions message
Basically would work like this :D

[languid ibex]

That's just a grappling hook 😅

[sonic musk]

no sir, it's not just a grappling hook. Ocarina of Time coined the term, it's gotta be called hookshot XD

[languid ibex]

True true

[crude nacelle]

Okay, you keep going back and forth between game mechanics and monster logic. So to make it very clearly distinct... boars flee on fire as being on fire is a slow painful way to die and they're distressed by the fire. Serpents flee because they're low health and the ocean seems safer than the player/land. The serpents don't even come back, they just leave forever. Having mid-sized flying enemies like drakes or vultures try to flee when overcome by the pain of a harpoon (which is much closer to a thorn on a serpent, and a massive wrenching impalement for a drake/volture) would make sense.

In terms of setting a precedent, you'll have seen creatures flee before this point. The only difference between this and that is that the flying creatures, who don't have to path around objects, go in a straight line on a fixed path in the opposite directio nof the threat. Hoping to make you release the harpoon by tiring you out. Hence your stamina draining. It's pretty intuitive.

I can't imagine a player harpooning a flying enemy, the flying enemy trying to get away, and the player thinking "Well this doesn't make any sense. Why is it trying to stop being harpooned?"

Especially if, like I suggest, there's an option to tether a flying enemy in place. You're there freely swinging your weapon while it's unable to move, it'd probably try to break the tether and get away from a melee enemy in that situation.

[languid ibex]

I didn't bring up monster logic, you mentioned that the harpoon would be twisting and wrenching, but then admitted it wouldn't do as much damage as a rally of arrows. In essence these are the same thing, not exactly comparable to a serpent being near death, or a primitive creature fearing fire.

[crude nacelle]

In what way is it not comparable that being in more pain makes you likely to flee the source of pain? If you were shot by 12 arrows you're probably not feeling much of anything anymore. Even if you were on the verge of death with 3 arrows in you, you're less likely to flee and more likely to bleed out. But if someone puts a large stick inside your body and is actively pulling and tugging and moving it about, your natural reaction would be to try and get away from the stick because that would be white hot incredible pain

When you have arrows stuck in you, not moving can help ease the pain. Not moving does not stop the pain if someone else is moving the harpoon.

And so if approaching the enemy doesn't get it out, and standing still doesn't get it out, then wearing them out until they release the harpoon is your only option to stop the pain. So fleeing is natural and expected

[languid ibex]

This is why I mentioned earlier it is unintuitive, there is no active damage to anything while harpooned, no reason to believe they are fleeing because of the pain, and to just have an approaching enemy turn around because they are harpooned is surely strange.

[crude nacelle]

Why are you making such flimsy excuses for why it's not possible. If you really need to, add a small ticking damage to the harpoon. Now there's a reason to believe.

[sonic musk]

the problem I have with harpoons making enemies want to flee is Voltures are not afraid of us. At all. They don't flee normally. They chase aggressively. Extremely aggressively. They're in a burning hellscape with no vulnerable prey and this soft humanoid shows up, they are so desperate for food they patrol the areas around the vast hellscape in the ocean in desperate search of any food. And these nightmare creatures would decide to run away because we are trying to kill them?

Like Omni said, I've smacked, burned, electrocuted, slashed, smashed, and poisoned Voltures and they just keep coming back. I cannot see them deciding to flee

[crude nacelle]

An approaching boar turns around when it's on fire.

[languid ibex]

I am not sure you know what an excuse is, I am simply presenting why I think it merits no such reaction and therefore the utility you suggest.

[sonic musk]

If I have no armor and I'm doing a naked run in the Ashlands to retrieve my armor, the 1 and ONLY enemy I don't want to see is a Volture. 2nd worse is an Asksvin. 3rd worse is an Archer. The rest are really easy to avoid. But a Volture is the WORST. It never ever ever ever stops pursuing you, it WILL get you. These enemies are the most aggressive and relentless enemies in the entire game, Asksvins try to be but have to walk around rocks. They are not the kind of enemies to run, from my many hours of experience I can guarantee you that

[languid ibex]

What seems flimsy to me is an assumed pain causing a reaction, but also admitting that there is little risk to their life with the harpoon compared to similar damage.

[sonic musk]

If you told me Drakes flee, sure. They like to shoot, and circle around. They're clearly clever and not trying to directly confront you, they are worried about their survival. But Voltures do not worry. They are extremely large predator animals that will get their prey, 1 way or another

[crude nacelle]

Why would you insult my intelligence by suggesting that I don't know what an excuse is. An excuse is a reason/justification for a fault or why something fails. You're justifying why you think my suggestion is faulted and fails to meet some kind of arbitrary intuitive requirement. There are many things in valheim that are much stranger than having a flying enemy flee because you impaled it with a harpoon. Enemies can't jump and get stuck behind knee-high walls. Enemies of opposing factions will walk towards each other from several meters away and stand behind a wall staring at each other instead of breaking it down. If you put an iron fence, covered in holes, between the enemies, and they can see each other clearly through the holes... they'll act like it's a solid wall and they can't see each other. It would be a neat and fun mechanic to add. It's as simple as that. Also it is extremely easy to understand that pain doesn't have to be life-threatening to overcome your sense of reason.

[languid ibex]

I never suggested any fault or failure, I can only speculate and offer my opinion.

[crude nacelle]

A fault is a flaw. If you say that a suggestion is unintuitive, that's suggesting it's flawed. Because you want it to be intuitive. So you don't want it to be unintuitive. So the fact you're saying it's unintuitive suggests that it's flawed.

[languid ibex]

I am not making excuses for anything to be clear, if you don't agree that's perfectly fine, I am not an authority on the matter.

[crude nacelle]

I really don't want start debating whether words in the dictionary mean what they say they mean. The bottom line is that I want to throw harpoons at monsters, I want flying monsters to drag me around when I harpoon them, and I want more excuses to use the harpoon in valheim because it's cool. I think they should add more features to the harpoon.

[languid ibex]

That's fair, I am not debating anyways, when I say it sounds unintuitive, that is just speculation. Would I like this feature, sure why not, is it in the top 5 features I would want added to the harpoon, not even close.

[crude nacelle]

what are the top 7 features you'd like added to the harpoon

[languid ibex]

Fishing, object collection, tame dragging without stamina loss, no friendly fire toggle needed, enemy yank at stamina cost, steep wall climbing, steep wall safe descent, and yank player to surface while in water.

[crude nacelle]

Okay. So you want to be able to pull things to you, to use it for mobility, for fishing, and to make it a more convenient animal control tool. What about the other 3.

[languid ibex]

That's 7 different things.

8 actually 👀

[crude nacelle]

By that logic, getting pulled by enemies is actually 5 things. Fleeing flying enemies, getting lifted up by flying enemies, being able to hang from flying enemies, causing flying enemies to flee when harpooned, and making flying enemies flee in 1 specific direction, and making the direction they flee equal to the opposite direction that the player is in.

6 actually

[languid ibex]

Okay but I didn't ask for the count on that.

[crude nacelle]

I don't think the point was whether you asked for a count. The point is that you're taking basic concepts and splitting them into many things to fill out a list of 7 things so that you can say that my suggestion isn't even worthy of the top 5 changes to the harpoon.

Which is a needlessly rude thing to do.

[languid ibex]

My top 5 to be clear.

[crude nacelle]

And bearing in mind that your reason for my suggestion not being particularly good was that it was too niche.

Yet your list has "yank player to surface while in water"

[languid ibex]

You can see it as rude, but it's just how I feel.

[crude nacelle]

and "yank enemy at stamina cost". and "tame dragging without stamina cost." and "object collection."

"object collection" in particular. You think that's more useful than pinning an enemy in place?

[languid ibex]

I think I mentioned it was situational sure, but not the only reason.

[languid ibex]

Absolutely, players have been wanting a way to collect items from the ocean floor for a long time.

[crude nacelle]

So it's less niche to collect serpent scales from slightly-too-deep water than it is to want to crowd control a large enemy?

[languid ibex]

Or anything dropped in water, during construction or a boat breaking, etc.

It's pretty common.

[languid ibex]

Tame dragging without stamina cost would effectively make transporting tames no longer an issue.

[crude nacelle]

in slightly too deep water. As you can jump from a height to get extra depth and loot items that fell a little deep. And if it's too deep you can't even see the items to throw the spear at them. But you'd never accidentally aggro 2 bears, or 2 trolls, or 2 valkyries and want to stop 1 of them from moving while you deal with the other?

never wanted to stop a 2 star soldier from attacking you while you deal with the seekers?

[languid ibex]

Sure, but there's already options for that.

[crude nacelle]

in the same way there's options for not dropping things in the ocean, yes.

this is a better option

[languid ibex]

That's not true in many cases, if your boat gets destroyed with ingots in it, it could be in the middle of the ocean.

[crude nacelle]

if it's the middle of the ocean, how is harpoon going to help? you can't see the bottom of the ocean. how do you aim at the ingots?