suggestion-discussion

[rain snow]

so i thinked the same about a bear cape that gives frost resistance but i think that would be so op but i wouldnt sat no tho 😛

[peak bronze]

I listed materials it would require, so it would be plains tier cape.

[rain snow]

thats reasoneable

[peak bronze]

I know there is lox cape but since it's long it clips with the loincloth part of the Vilebone set which irritates my visual eye a bit.

[rain snow]

when i see the bears added i was hyped for a cape with a bear head on it like the wolf cape

it was such a sadness

[peak bronze]

Well, we have bear headdress.

[rain snow]

would it look bad if it had bear head on the other shoulder

[rain snow]

nuh i like it on shoulder :/

[peak bronze]

Would look silly IMO, and Vilebone set has skull as pauldron.

[rain snow]

dont know i wish we had more customizasion options this games designs cool but i wouldnt say no to more options

[runic plover]

Can't say that "first enter only" provision sounds effective. Any griefer could just make a new character, log in for 5 seconds, switch to their own world, devcommands a bunch of gear and skill ranks, then come back and grief. Sounds to me like that restriction would only prevent higher-power well-meaning people from joining.

Inventory is tied to the character, so I don't think a server could enforce that without a major overhaul.

[earnest grotto]

there is a mod that does this exact thing

[lament zinc]

I will give you one answer to that:

I've been around here a bit longer as you have and I have - unfortunately - seen the posts of people who're blaming IG got having grievers enter their servers.

They're complaining about that, then explain that they had set the password to something very simple, making it very easy for grievers to enter their server.

When I play Valheim in Co-op, it'll be people I trust. Not with some random dude I don't know.
That also means that I have no need for an "open server system".
Which is explained in my replies, as well as the reason why there's no need for it.
Which is: "Smiffe - on behalf of IG - has explained multiple times they're not going to do that.".
I didn't talk on behalf of the devs or IG; I was simply referring to something that has been said multiple times before.

If people don't want to check for that, or the various news channels that this discord have - and it doesn't even take 10 minutes, let alone 10 hours to check the latest news pots - it's their problem. But those channels exist for a reason and that reason is to provide them with the information they actually need.
So if pointing that out to them is considered as condescending , so be it.

But at least I don't attack someone for what (s)he said, just because I think I don't like that person's behaviour.
Something you obviously have to learn.

That's not what I asked.

I want to know what the default option would be.

[sterile condor]

instead of being super passive aggressive about shit and saying stuff like "well if you read x y and z channels, youd know" you could spend less time and effort on your end by just giving a simle helpful answer. but instead u wanna be a redditor about it and instead of giving helpful information, u wanna berate the person for no already having the information lol. any time ive seen you respond to a question or suggestion its always the same attitude, like youre annoyed that people dont know as much as you do (or think you do)

"you are aware that joke suggestions will be romoved?" - in response to a suggestion

"this wont happen, as it would force the game to teleport them from...." - in response to a suggestion

"if people actually paid attention to and read posts in #news , #valheim-patchnotes or even #public-test-patchnotes as well as #valheim-public-test they would have known"

"not until it happens to him. and then we got a suggestion about having the game's servers being password protected to prevent griefers to enter. 🤦‍♂️"

legitimately everything you say in this channel as well as other channels that ive seen you active in, you are condescending, and youd rather point out that a person doesnt have some bit of information rather than just giving them that bit of information. people come in here to ask questions, so that they dont have to go through whatever channels might have the information theyre looking for hidden somewhere. u dont gotta be an asshole, u can just answer the question like a normal human being, not like someone that spends 15 hours a day on reddit. its not hard

[lament zinc]

So tell me, why are those channels there then?
Why does Discord have a search function?

Because if people aren't using them, they're just as useful as a bunch of testicles on my aunt.

Those channels are there for a reason.
Some of the rules - like the one about posting joke suggestions - are there for a reason.

I think the bigger problem is that the generation I belong to is the ones that actually went to a library and did research before asking questions or bringing up ideas.
While the current generation - which you belong to seeing your spelling and grammar - doesn't do things on their own, but want others to do that.
And when being pointed that there's other means to get that information - meaning you have to work for it, they get hostile.

Well, guess what.

I'm done with you attacking me.

I've been trying to remain polite and you attacked me personally twice.

So I kindly request that you stop attacking me, otherwise I will have to take the appropriate actions.

Because this isn't reddit; which is a cesspit I haven't even been to; as you pointed out, but it certainly feels like it every once in a while.

[lilac path]

not gonna let that happen while i'm awake, this whole conflict was so damn unnecessary and it just keeps happening about every topic here, let people suggest stuff and recognize that not even the devs seem to have a vision or plan set in stone and/or that what we know from smiffe isn't always law, as the very last content update should prove well enough, just chill.
it's cool to let people know why we know or believe something isn't a thing yet, and/or likely won't become one, but there's no reason for it to go past giving that bit of info into an argument.

[lament zinc]

In other words: You're fine when someone gets personally attacked on his replies when that person remains polite in a discussion and bringing up arguments.

[lilac path]

and about doing research: it is simply more time-efficient to go ask a question in a place full of people who know the answer than to search for it, especially in a place like discord where depending on the wording of the question and answer, you might miss it entirely because you weren't thinking of the right word.
and pinned messages are a great resource for us regulars to point people to in response to a question, but i'd say it's pretty unreasonable to expect people to go check every pinned message in nearly every channel of a server with this many channels, this is a chat platform, is it really such a crazy concept to answer a question through a chat just because the answer technically already exists somewhere out there

[lament zinc]

I'm sorry, Winter, but that disappoints me. A lot.

[lilac path]

considering what they're dealing with, they remained remarkably composed.

[lament zinc]

"They"?
It was only one person who attacked me personally.

[lilac path]

not even gonna humour that one.

[wanton atlas]

belive me. people have put their password in their server name, and then come and complained about griefers on discord / reddit... :/
@runic plover ^

people are usually chill and wants to meet other users and play with. but open servers is sadly just a invite to the few but very malicious griefters

[sterile condor]

yeah like i said there will be people who do that, but theyre not worth anyones time. its an iq thing.

[wanton atlas]

hence we have passwords, multiple backup options etc just to try to undo alot of the damage they cause

[wanton atlas]

well. people who just had 100 hours of gameplay erased tend to be emotional and upset

which I can totally understand

[sterile condor]

someone mentioned earlier about maybe a popup disclaimer when you start a server without a password, i think thats an easy solution if it were to ever be implemented

[wanton atlas]

there could be multiple ways to "fix" the game so we could have open servers

like build restrictions.
build rights etc
prevent other players from "touching your stuff" etc

but the game isn't made for it atm

[wanton atlas]

a popup doesn't stop someone from being sad and upset

[sterile condor]

ya but i mean thats like shooting yourself in the foot with a gun and then complaining on the manufacturer's page online about how theyre responsible. just... dont shoot yourself in the foot lol

[wanton atlas]

just because something is right or wrong, doesn't mean it would hurt less

[sterile condor]

oh for sure. but its not yall's fault

[wanton atlas]

people still would shoot us

doesn't matter who is at fault

it's our fault since we made the thing that made the hurt possible

but the whole thing is "I want random pickups in valheim" right?

not "I don't want to type a password everytime I connect" ?

[sterile condor]

maybe if there was a time (i played the game when it first came out but then took a break for a couple years before revisiting it) where you couldnt make a password protected server, and people lost stuff, then ya that would be on you guys for not having that safeguard in place. but having the option, and people choosing the other option, you guys cant blame yourselves for whatever happens afterward

[wanton atlas]

I think almost always a password was required to make to host a server 🤔

or possibly back in alpha times, you could make one without password

[sterile condor]

ya, from what it seemed. because they want an area where people have unrestricted access. unrestricted access means usually more people, which means more chances of meeting people. idk how much you read from the whole convo but ive played over 2k hours of ARK, and thats something that they have. you can just pick a server, and go into it. no password needed. you can see how many people are on, and higher populated servers attract more people, til it becomes a saturation issue. and sure there are griefers but thats something that you just know going into it that its a possibility. other option is to just host a server with a password, which a lot of people also do

[wanton atlas]

well. valheim is ment to be played as a adventure, co op or group

hence the no locks basicly

but I know people play it as a MMORPG sometimes

and I also know and agree that finding new friends in a game like valheim is great

I've meet so many people I care about right here in this game

but I also meet 100's of people who got hurt by other players

and even tho the password is the bare minimum, one person gains access, shares IP and Password with a friend. who then joins and destroy things

[sterile condor]

as a dev for a multiplayer game, youre gonna have that. its impossible not to have that. its just something that happens. in order to keep every single unwanted interaction to not exist, you have to have the game not exist.

[wanton atlas]

pretty much yeah

but we have tried to "counter" our own password system by having LFG post channel instead

so we would also try to encurage those who wants to play with randoms

and the voice channels is a good place for people to find friends to play with

[sterile condor]

and that is a good alternative, especially for people who want to know who theyre playing with before they just jump in with some rando. but imo having open servers is great too. if someone doesnt want to join an open server, they dont have to. i think some people here took that person's suggestion and for some reason thought that anyone playing valheim would be forced to join an open server.

[wanton atlas]

and something else about the forced password is to lessen our load as "moderators" for our own game eventually when we will be on playstation

since games on playstation requires moderations

so no possible open servers = less moderation issues = less workload on moderators on that platform

[sterile condor]

at the end of the day, yall are the devs. what you do/say is what happens. im not here to demand that you guys include that, i was just explaining the reasoning behind that person's suggestion. if you guys have plans/ideas in place that open servers would interfere with, yall do whatever is best. thats the whole reason this channel exists, is to discuss suggestions. some people just for some reason get irritated that other people dont agree/have the same information as them, and they act superior and very passive aggressively toward those people and its frustrating to see

[wanton atlas]

I would love to have open servers

big servers

I wish we had the system for it

like minecraft has some kind of system where you can "mark" chunks. and that chunk(s) are open for anyone

[sterile condor]

if someone is legitimately acting dumb or unruly i think its 100% the best action to call them out on it but when people are just asking questions cause they dont wanna filter through several channels worth of conversations just to find one bit of info, and theyre getting talked down to cause of it, thats not right

[wanton atlas]

well. we have the channel description

[sterile condor]

yeah. and people will not follow the rules of the channel and then get butt hurt when people get on them for it

[wanton atlas]

I hate when people start to fight over an opinion

[lilac path]

#1 reason i rarely check the server these days

[sterile condor]

that is another thing. i also, and apparently im not the only one, have not really been super active in the discord lately cause of people like that. the server is a place where people can come to hang out and play together and share info, but there are some here who would rather just be an asshole and it makes it not a fun place to be

[wanton atlas]

oh for sure

people should read #rules-and-info #1 newbie and oldtimer

and just be nice to others

[shadow lion]

just purchased the valheim official soundtrack via steam, can i benefit from it in game somehow or do i just play it in the steam app?

[wanton atlas]

no perks ingame

[runic plover]

One other thing I would like to add, since Smiffe mentioned that there's the LFG channel and assorted VCs. Not everyone who plays Valheim is in this server. Pretty small minority, from what I recall of sales numbers. By extension, the LFG and VCs here matter to relatively few players.

[opal nimbus]

@wanton atlas can you make the boat sails almost fully transparent for the person driving so they have a better line of sight. E.g. no more crashing into rocks and getting stuck on rocks. And can you make bears tame able so me and my friends can attach them to the cart. Thanks

[runic plover]

I could certainly understand a sail transparency slider in the options, but I wouldn't want the thing to always be basically invisible while sailing.

[sterile condor]

Prob put this in #suggestions , this is just the channel to discuss suggestions that have already been made

[opal nimbus]

It is

[sterile condor]

ah mb then

[wanton atlas]

We don't want transparent sails tho 😅

@runic plover about 14 million sales is the last officially reported numbers of players total. And about 150.000 of them are on discord

But if the people who join your server, how will you find a common ground of communication with them if you don't already share a social platform?

[sterile condor]

that 150k is just people that are in this discord though, it doesnt include people that have discord but arent in this server. i personally have like 20+ friends that play but arent in the server

its also much much easier to get someone to download a free messaging app that takes 2 minutes to download than it is to get someone to buy a game for however much money, idr how much it costs, and then download it

[runic plover]

On the assumption a good-natured rando joins an open server (not likely, but not impossible), they could simply text chat in-game with whoever else is there. At that point, these hypothetical players can exchange whatever contact info they want. I ain't their parents. End up with language barriers or something? That comes with playing with randos. Dealt with that a number of times back in my Monster Hunter 3 days.

[runic plover]

So a little above 1% of all Valheim owners are present here, and, among them, how many are actually active in this server in any capacity? Wasn't that also a single-digit percent? So we're looking at a single-digit percent of a single-digit percent of game owners who reliably access and use this server. Got some rough estimates and approximate math in there, but it's close enough, I think.

[wanton atlas]

active members compared to the total player base 🤔

about 8k people visited the server last week

and 30k online constantly in the server

[arctic wharf]

Some good numbers 👌

[wanton atlas]

I won't complain 😄

[oblique gyro]

@shy swan It’s not as cool as a gjallarhorn, but you can throw your spear at your feet to aggro most things nearby.

[shy swan]

I know but thanks!

[fast void]

5 upvotes means EVERYONE agrees with me 😏

[wintry bobcat]

Does your character stop when you open your inventory?

[wanton atlas]

if you are on a boat, and your friends open the storage, the boat stops

I assume that's what they ment

[wintry bobcat]

Oh yeah that is very annoying can agree

I feel like that’s not what they’re getting at though

[wanton atlas]

else I can't figure out what it could be

but that "feature" is unintended but when does a boat ever stands still?

so no. won't try to "fix" that since it would cause so many issues

[stuck lark]

lowkey that can be used to the group advantage

that's what me and my friends were doing we were using it as brakes xD

[stuck lark]

you can still move even when inv is opened @fathom sapphire

[lament zinc]

If it's the boat inventory, it may be a better stopper as jumping overboard.

I mean, fishing without the wet-debuf from the start sounds great!

[fathom sapphire]

ik, but I'm talking about when u in action and press inventory button u stopping and u need again press W

[shadow crow]

You don’t stop moving when you open inventory though

[languid ibex]

I've never experienced this

[grand sable]

after an hour and a half of killing about 10 regular bears and 3 bears that are one star i just cheated the damn thing in 🗿

[pulsar perch]

thats so fair lol

[grand sable]

i am willing to grind for resources i am not willing to go on a while goose chase and waste hours of my life for it

i straight up do not believe the drop rate of them

either the game is bugged, god himself has a vendetta against me, or its just way way too low.

[pulsar perch]

my first time playing after the update it took me around 30 bears to get 1 but then my next playthrough after i got 3 in around 20 bears

i kinda wish they would add a pitty system for trophies like maybe everytime you kill something the chance of getting the trophy increases by 1% until you get it then it resets back

[grand sable]

logical

at the same time do starred animals not have a higher chance of dropping trophies?

[pulsar perch]

they dont

[grand sable]

which i think is stupid

rare should mean the thing that is rare is not as rare because otherwise why would rare be rewarding

[pulsar perch]

yeah it seems like an oversight to not even slightly increase the chance if the animal is stared

[shadow crow]

Or add in a taxidermy skill that allows you to craft a trophy from some (large) number of hides

[lofty wave]

why is this a separate skill and not just crafting?

[shadow crow]

🤷‍♀️

[languid ibex]

Meh, you need like 120 bear hides to craft 2 of the bear armor sets anyways, it's not a waste of time to just keep hunting them

[lofty wave]

why are troll trophies more common but have less uses?

[languid ibex]

That depends, they have a mead sink with trollfish.

In some cases, say someone has a base in the Black Forest, could also just be a good source of food.

[lofty wave]

a single trophy is enough to catch 20 trollfish, it doesn't need to be five times the drop rate for that

[grand sable]

idk why i would craft 2 armor sets but i have that many hides already..

and you can't make any good food with bear meat as soon as you get carrots

[languid ibex]

It costs 1 per mead base, if you utilize that mead often, it is handy to not have to hunt down endless trolls to keep utilizing it.

[grand sable]

if i could make taxidermy and trophies and rugs on the regular and fill my house with them i would want to fight bears more, at the moment its just annoying and my chests are getting filled up

[lofty wave]

it's close enough to minced meat sauce but you don't have to kill necks for it

[grand sable]

carrot soup boar jerky deer stew.

[languid ibex]

You should only have around 64 with the 10 regular and 3 1 star. 🤨

[grand sable]

i never used minced meat sauce

i have resource drops at 1.5x

[lofty wave]

i dont get why recipes need to use trophies instead of consistent drops. can't a bear helmet be made with 40 extra bear hide instead?

that way it's always 10 bears and stars will make it faster

[grand sable]

i think trophies are cool and crafting with them is fine if they were like a 30-40% drop rate.

every time i see "10%" i cringe, flashbacks of hunting in the mountains for hours and hours looking for a drake trophy...

[rose swan]

Trophies are fun to craft with, but as you know I’m a man of the gamble

Reminder that there is one free bear trophy in the world 👀

[lofty wave]

it's only there because of a bug, it may be fixed in 1.0

haldor's rug is meant to be indestructible but when the area is reloaded it becomes a normal player-placed rug

[grand sable]

i would like to hunt for rare animals that are guaranteed to have a trophy or some other reason to want to find them or care about the fact that they have a star

i would not like to hunt 537 of the same animal in hopes of a rare drop, is this fucking world of warcraft or what

[languid ibex]

Don't do it then 😅

[grand sable]

🗿

[languid ibex]

That set is completely optional

[rose swan]

So you think in addition to extra materials, starred variants should have an increased drop rate for trophies 🤔

[grand sable]

yeah exactly thats why i cheated it in

[lofty wave]

luck shouldn't discourage people from the playstyle they want

[grand sable]

because i wanted the damn armour and i wanted the damn pendant and i wanted the damn rug

[languid ibex]

You gave up after 13 bears though... I run into 13 bears in one day/night cycle.

[lofty wave]

its fine for cosmetic stuff like the rug but not armor sets and weapons

[grand sable]

imagine that in irl standards, ah yes its time to hunt 40 bears so i can make a trophy out of one of them

[languid ibex]

That's actually not far off, finding kill worthy of a trophy isn't easy.

[grand sable]

doesn't take dozens, thats like the entire population of bears in some places

[languid ibex]

Maybe not dozens, but it isn't an instantaneous thing either, it takes patience.

[grand sable]

hence why i said i would look for starred bears that have guaranteed trophy and not complain at all, thats cool

i do not want to kill kill kill kill and hope hope hope hope cope cope rnjesus this and that AUEGHHHH

[languid ibex]

Yeah it's not that tasking tbh

[grand sable]

🗿

i'm glad you like to play the game this way

[hexed jewel]

i thought starred have identical trophy drop rates?

[grand sable]

unfortunately they do

[hexed jewel]

which, DOES strike me as maybe something that COULD be different

[lofty wave]

right now starred bears have the same chance as a bear trophy so it wouldn't be any different except you know what you get before you kill it

[hexed jewel]

just now i had this exact "issue"--and I fought a starred bear even in BF gear hoping to get the trophy, and of course, no

[grand sable]

grinding for resources and searching for resources is a very different vibe from hoping this thing has this resource this time

[languid ibex]

Totally optional

[lofty wave]

you'd still have to grind bears to clear their spawn limit

[grand sable]

I WANT THE ARMOR SET

yknow what i give up, praise the console commands.

praise modders

[languid ibex]

Not enough evidently

[pulsar perch]

90% of things in the game is optional that isnt a defence for something being too grindy lol

[lofty wave]

spawn neck MonsterAI.m_jumpInterval::0.001

[grand sable]

YES

[languid ibex]

It is, it's just not one you agree with

[grand sable]

literally weapons are optional people play the game with their fists

armour is optional, some people just dodge.

[lofty wave]

everything is optional until we get an ending in 1.0

[languid ibex]

Precisely

[grand sable]

i like my game to be enjoyable and fun thats why i paid money for this game that is designed for entertainment.

[pulsar perch]

if its something that is purely a collectors item then yes. tho i dont think it is for things that are used for crafting weapons and armour

[languid ibex]

Seems you don't want to take your time enjoying it, anything that passes a certain amount of time makes you angry and cheat with console commands.

[grand sable]

i have played this game for 1300 hours.

i have built enormous castles and villages, i have spent the time harvesting the resources for that.

[languid ibex]

Yet you only killed 13 bears...

[grand sable]

i have killed every boss with multiple builds, i have explored almost most of the map multiple times.

I, Fucking, Hate, Trophy, Hunting, Ever since i first tried to get a drake helmet.

[languid ibex]

Alright well, that's no reason to change the system, you don't like it, you don't have to engage with it.

[grand sable]

lord have mercy.

are you trying to defend the game from me enjoying it

[languid ibex]

What does that even mean?

[grand sable]

i don't like something so it means i'm wrong?

[languid ibex]

Your experience and preferences don't merit a change is my point.

[rose swan]

Is anything in this game not optional?

[grand sable]

would you enjoy the game less if one and two starred bears always dropped trophies

[lofty wave]

peace towards necks

[languid ibex]

Yes because it'd result in far more trophies accumulating after getting them far easier.

[lofty wave]

what if it's on a kill count like terraria banners?

[grand sable]

if you find such animals.

[languid ibex]

It would avoid starred creatures because of the guaranteed inventory space taken up.

[grand sable]

then avoid them? i think starred animal trophies is a compromise i am willing for

[pulsar perch]

i dont think increasing the trophy chance by maybe 5% per star is gonna make them super common

[languid ibex]

There's no need for a compromise, if players weren't getting trophies, that would have surfaced through the multiple testing phases, but it typically doesn't take much.

The rare occasion someone crosses the 30 bears threshold.

[rose swan]

To be fair, the trophy drop chance was brought quite a lot during the testing phase 🤔

[grand sable]

so i can just suffer then.

😍

[languid ibex]

It was, but it was closely followed by the moment they finally found one.

[grand sable]

Lucky them.

[languid ibex]

Not lucky, they just don't tableflip after a handful of bears.

I can easily slay 13 bears in one day/night cycle.

[grand sable]

Good for you

awesome.

[rose swan]

Personally, I don’t mind the 10% drop rate, and actually find the rarity to be fun and engaging. But, I know it’s annoying for some/many. wouldn’t be opposed to it being upped to 20% (1/5 bears)

I do like Blobs idea of the pity system- after X amour of monsters, trophy chance increases. Sure, could see that.

[languid ibex]

Yeah, it's a nice reason to adventure around and find the trophy.

[grand sable]

for some.

[lofty wave]

i never had this idea

[peak bronze]

You had now.

[grand sable]

you enjoy this feature and i don't and so you get to benefit and i'm the one that should cope, truly convenient 🥶

[rose swan]

Shoot, sorry misrepresentation LOL
I meant the what you said about the kill count!

Still, I think you raised a good point. Bear trophy is the key to both an armor set and a trinket, which makes it pretty valuable 🤔

[languid ibex]

You can only stand to benefit from continuing to adventure and look for the trophy.

[rose swan]

Slap some bear caves in Meadows >800 meters from spawn for more bear encounters

[lofty wave]

they're too strong for meadows

[shadow crow]

With more beehives

[lofty wave]

distance doesn't matter, it would lead to players believing a black forest enemy is meadows-level

[rose swan]

So are Draugr 👀

[lofty wave]

[rose swan]

But yeah, reason I’m actually opposed to meadows caves is because meadows already has a lot of great content

[peak bronze]

Those draugr villages are rare tho, and far enough so you won't just stumble upon some too early.

[hexed jewel]

i just started a new playthrough and wanted to try the new set, but the trophy never dropped until just recently--after I'd built the root mask and just accepted I would not complete the set before progression made better options available

[rose swan]

Can be rare, definitely! My buddy actually stumbled upon one on his first playthrough pre-Elder! Of course, I was curious why he traveled so far anyways lol

[hexed jewel]

so sure, I could now build it--but I'm at the point either completing the root set or just finishing swam and pushing for fenris makes more sense, the only reason to bother taking that extra time would be purely aesthetic (and stats wise objectively worse)

[languid ibex]

It's relevant up into the mountains 👍

[hexed jewel]

sure you CAN--but again, Fenris becomes available

[grand sable]

spawn trophybjorn 5

[hexed jewel]

i feel with something that goes into multiple at least NICE to having things, and for such a 'big bad' enemy, it would feel a lot nicer to bump the drop rate--i'm hones

[languid ibex]

/stats now has "Cheater!" tag

[hexed jewel]

in general unless it has only aesthetic uses, I could see trophy drop rates being higher

[rose swan]

Troll drop is 50%, correct? 🤔

[lofty wave]

yes, 50%

[rose swan]

(Deja Vu moment)

[hexed jewel]

yeah, and it don't even necessarily need to be THAT high, but also, it works

as is--those heads go into bait, or, atop poles to let the other trolls know you REALLY mean business

[grand sable]

spawn trophywolf 1

and whatever the drake is called in commands

[rose swan]

Agreed. Personally, I would be fine with 20%

[grand sable]

25%

[rose swan]

Wolves and drakes are common though, I think they’re ok. Plus, wolves are farmable.

[languid ibex]

At most 15%

[lofty wave]

25% is good too, anything above what it is now.

[grand sable]

23% final offer

[grand sable]

certainly not drakes they are the reason i hate trophy hunting

[shadow crow]

Going once, going twice..! 👩‍⚖️

[grand sable]

dancing all around a mountain biome every peak multiple times PLEASE DROP A TROPHY BRO ITS BEEN 2 HOURS

[languid ibex]

There's 50 drakes on some mountains though...

[hexed jewel]

i think it helps you get more of the 'smaller' enmies it feels like, plus also the health pool relative to your avg damage is lower

[lofty wave]

and no guarantee that 50 drakes drop a trophy

[hexed jewel]

bears are like a dozen or more hits to take down, IIRC you usually one or two shot drakes and wolves (with surprise) with a bow

[languid ibex]

Okay, but it's plenty of rolls.

[rose swan]

Drakes have static spawns as well 🤔

[hexed jewel]

the drake is also a 'weirdo' as its trophy currently 'placeholding' (presumably) for Deep North fish bait

[lofty wave]

any player who kills 50 drakes deserves to be rewarded

[hexed jewel]

but still with the new bombs, you want their trophies dropping relatively reliable and not be hosed by bad RNG on that

[languid ibex]

Chances are good that they will be.

[grand sable]

bruh

[rose swan]

They are! With 50 frost glands

[languid ibex]

Also yeah, plenty of Frost Arrow mats

[hexed jewel]

like I said earlier--anything with consumable whether a "one/few time' build like gear, or furniture, or recurrent as in consumables--really needs to be higher than 5-10%

[wanton atlas]

[grand sable]

what am i going to use my 50 bear meat and paws and 100 fur for

[languid ibex]

Or a cold treat haha

[languid ibex]

Not an argument when you're in 1.5x resources.

[grand sable]

nothing i say is an argument apparently

[rose swan]

🫴

[languid ibex]

You can't crank up resources and say I have too much

🤦‍♂️

[grand sable]

what would i use 30 bear meat and paws and 50 fur for like it makes no damn difference

[languid ibex]

Set upgrades and food

[grand sable]

i have the armour i have the weapon

food? what is this meadows biome, i am looking to getting carrots and the recipes that follow

[languid ibex]

The fully upgraded set is like 60 fur

[pulsar perch]

bear meat is a pretty good food for just exploring

[grand sable]

i have the fully upgraded set unless you mean for some reason upgrading it in the mountains more..

[languid ibex]

I used it up into the mountains, it was still very useful.

The buffs are incredible.

[rose swan]

Think Scales even used the bear set in the Ashlands if I’m remembering right? 🤔

[lofty wave]

yes he does

[grand sable]

i wish there was just a bear fur carpet without the trophy and head

[rose swan]

Think that would be too similar to the lox rug

[grand sable]

good

[languid ibex]

You can sit on the head though, it's not just a rug

[shadow crow]

Imagine if lox rugs included the head. It could double as a beanbag chair!

[rose swan]

Imagine if we could cycle through furniture variants to have options for many rugs 👀

[peak bronze]

Just as I yesterday suggested my variant of bear cape. #suggestions message

[languid ibex]

Loved that idea

[rose swan]

For me, this is about the shape difference

[peak bronze]

It irritates a bit visually seeing lox cape clipping with the loincloth part of vilebone set.

[rose swan]

Yeah, I completely understand 😭

[fathom sapphire]

like this, when I press Shift this problem appear, I can't just surf in inv when I'm running

When I'am casually walking, everything is fine

[grand sable]

yknow some suggestions are good but the writing is so bad that i wanna downvote just to spite them

😮‍💨

[shadow crow]

Not everyone is a native English speaker; I try to give them the benefit of the doubt.

[languid ibex]

You should cut them some slack, especially considering your most recent suggest uses "&" then "and." You've also misspelled "a lot," and didn't punctuate your sentence.

[grand sable]

glad to see you scrutinizing me again

i refer to entire spelling problems where people say things like "tourches"

[languid ibex]

Just encouraging you to be a little less judgemental.

[grand sable]

i think i can atleast be understood.

[runic plover]

I must agree that criticizing spelling and grammatical errors while using many of your own isn't the best way to present your case.

[wanton atlas]

just take a lesson in BrokenEnglish101 ? 🤔

[runic plover]

I know plenty of native (even exclusive) English-speakers whose literary skills are atrocious.

[warm crystal]

The thunder stone would be a great item to use for a magic thunder staff. Perhaps with more potency when raining

[simple hound]

Thor! aka coal

[grand sable]

"many" as in punctuations is way more nitpicky than i'm being........

i am pointing out words entirely spelt wrong and y'all are on my case about &'s and punctuations and "a lot"

👹

what can men do against such reckless hate

[wintry bobcat]

I feel like the 5 daily “add bears” suggestions have been replaced by 5 daily “increase trophy drop chance” suggestions

[grand sable]

well

heres to hoping you jinxed it and just like adding bears they will now adjust that

[rose swan]

Oh yeah, Obi was the daily ‘add bears’ suggestor, I nearly forgot

[mellow crater]

That said, I would love a way to remove the gamble part of trophies. But last time I suggested something about that it got hard downvoted and I didn't got any better idea since then

[peak bronze]

Blob's pity system.

[dusky vigil]

I’ve noticed that almost every suggestion about early magic (I mean staffs, not kinda magic things like portals) gets heavily downvoted here (like 10 up / 30 down), and I’m genuinely curious why.

I haven’t really seen solid arguments against early magic itself (and I've checked like 20+ pages in #suggestion-discussion with "magic" keyword) - especially if it’s properly balanced for earlygame content. I fully agree that throwing fireballs at graydwarf would be silly and obviously current high tier magic is in the right place progression wise.

But early magic doesn’t have to mean “powerful magic”. It could be: weak, limited and situational - but still fun.

From the developer/gamedesign perspective - almost any mechanic could work - it is always only the matter of efforts/resources into it.

So the question is not “should players nuke early mobs with spells”, but rather:
why is the concept of early magic so unpopular?

Curious to hear actual arguments and reasoning behind the downvotes. What do you think?

[pulsar perch]

they would need to add eithr food for early game

[dusky vigil]

its a fact, not an argument against it tho

[pulsar perch]

and if the magic is weak enough no1 would use it and it would be overshadowed by everything else

[dusky vigil]

people use things because they like them not because it is always the most effective way to play tho

[rose swan]

Not opposed to earlier magic introduction to the game, but I don’t mind how the current system is.

[pulsar perch]

i will say i dont think its the worst idea to add magic earlier most of the time the suggestions for it get downvoted so heavy because of how many times it's been suggested

[dusky vigil]

yee if it struggles people then I can see the reason behind it

[languid ibex]

Early magic introduces complications, balancing challenges, and the task of inserting things not originally intended at previous parts of the game. At this point it has been stated by Smiffe that the developers have no intention to implement magic into the early game, and even though plenty of reasons have been provided, most community members will downvote these suggestions because they're aware of the stance on this subject as a whole.

[dusky vigil]

Still it’s sad that voting works more as “dev vision enforcement” than actual interest in discussing the idea

[rose swan]

Been awhile since anyone has suggested earlier magic 🤔

[peak bronze]

Not bad idea itself, but it would require too much work currently as they are mainly focusing to finish the last biome. There would be several things to take into notion: balancing around early game weapons, adding new foods for eitr, making it somehow fit for the lore (as currently eitr in Mistlands makes more sense) etc.
Currently magic has significant advantages against non magical equipment.

[pulsar perch]

there where a lot more suggestions for it before ashlands came out

[dusky vigil]

I understand this tho from a dev team perspective. Game was in early access to long, so I could expect a lot of things throwed into the trash can. And magic is obviously a high effort thing here

[dusky vigil]

yeah that's what I've said as well

[languid ibex]

I suppose, but it can also serve to create more awareness and understanding. I try to remain neutral and open to good ideas crafted with care, but broadly stated ideas are difficult to support when you're aware of the developer's perspective(to an extent).

[pulsar perch]

it would probably be plains or mountains at the earliest

[dusky vigil]

so basically the main reason to take it very carefully is the amount of cook time required to properly design and balance it

[shadow crow]

Plains, you just swipe a shaman’s staff

[dusky vigil]

Which still seems doable but if we have a release on one side of the scale and early magic on the other people choose the release - what is understandable

[languid ibex]

It's a common enough request, and could be possible, but I don't mind the small build up to magic use already present in the game, like forsaken powers for example.

[rose swan]

There potential for mid-game magic gear in my opinion, biggest thing is just the amount of work and balancing that would come with it. Might be better for mod material, or at most like a 1.1 update type thing. Wouldn’t introduce it any earlier than mountain tier though.

[pulsar perch]

plains still technically needs a light armor set

[languid ibex]

Vilebone set though

[wintry bobcat]

is vilebone not light?

[rose swan]

Yeah, plains just got a fresh fit! I think Pumpkin just forgot haha

Now it appears Mistalnds may be due for light armor set

[pulsar perch]

tbh i did forget about the vile set lol

[languid ibex]

I would immediately opt into the mistlands light armor, I'm not a fan of the bug themed armor. 😅

Assuming it isn't bug themed of course.

[rose swan]

Same! Filthy bugs

[shadow crow]

Bunny armor.

[wintry bobcat]

The mage armor feels kinda doo doo to me

But maybe that's just me

[shadow crow]

You thought the bear armor was revealing! Well just you wait 🤣
👯‍♀️

[lofty field]

That shouldn't be an issue for you, since it's entirely optional to pick them up.

[languid ibex]

It is though. I would prefer to feel lucky a trophy dropped rather than a guarantee of fodder.

[pulsar perch]

they weren't saying it should be a guaranteed drop

[languid ibex]

They were saying starred creatures should always drop a trophy.

[pulsar perch]

mb i didn't read up enough

[lofty field]

Killing starred mobs is as optional as crafting certain armors/trinkets.

[languid ibex]

#suggestion-discussion message

@vague flint Random stones are killing you?

[shadow crow]

I think maybe they mean the fire rain?

[languid ibex]

Hmm, my thoughts were the rocks being thrown?

Or maybe even the spawners?

[shadow crow]

Maybe

[vague flint]

yeah, im being thrown at by the skeletons

and im always getting flooded by mobs and its not even funny because the main cause of my death is because random mobs are throwing a stone or an arrow from 100m away

[peak bronze]

Twitchers? They actually throw small skulls, not stones/rocks.

[vague flint]

yup

or the other bow skeleton

its is always that im being chased by a massive horde of random mobs, and it piles up and becomes an even bigger one every single time I try to take my grave and die

[languid ibex]

I've never had a hard time running away from anything in the Ashlands, are you utilizing Ratatosk Mead?

[vague flint]

nope guess i have to get that

[languid ibex]

Yeah, give it a shot, it's very handy! I would also suggest marking Putrid Holes and using them as safe havens when you need them.

[vague flint]

thanks for the tips 🙂

[wanton atlas]

@wraith sleet I'm not here to argue with you but.
The game is balanced from our viewpoint of what is enough "challenge" for a single player experience.

there are other settings to make the game easier to play if you find it to hard

[wraith sleet]

I agree with you. My main suggestion is really about quick save / load last save. It’s not about removing the intended difficulty. After many playthroughs, I’d just wish to have this option since this isn’t something that can really be added properly through mods. I also want to say I didn’t mean to sound critical of vanilla — maybe I just worded it poorly.

[wanton atlas]

you basicly want "save scum" ?

we kinda have that already, where you can just reload your last save and continue to play from that point in time

[wraith sleet]

do we?

[wanton atlas]

yes you technically can

even tho it's crude system and you need to try your way out to see when the last save happend that is before <whatever you want to save scum to>

start game -> manage saves

[wraith sleet]

Yes, basically it is save scumming.
If you can already do it manually, having it implemented as an actual feature would make it much more accessible and convenient for people who want to play that way. If it helps with balance or fairness, things like disabling achievements in that mode would make total sense. That’s where the idea of a dedicated singleplayer fits.

[wanton atlas]

I think that could be very hard to disable achivements if you reload a save 🤔

it would change alot of things we have atm.

[languid ibex]

As just an avid enjoyer of Valheim, I like that I'm not enticed by save scumming when things go horribly wrong.

[lament zinc]

Wouldn't save scumming completely negate the "brutal survival aspect" of this game, though?

[wanton atlas]

you already can save scum @lament zinc

what Gimbling suggests is to make it easier to perform pretty much

[lament zinc]

I'm aware of that, but right now it's not as easy as quick loading a save prior to the point things went horrorbly wrong.

[languid ibex]

I enjoy the unreliable nature of it, I don't think I've ever bothered to try it because of that.

[wanton atlas]

our backup system is mostly ment to restore your character if a bug happens or something

it's not ment as a "reload last save" feature

[lament zinc]

So the moment that's made easier, it would - imho at least - completely remove the "brutal survival aspect" of the game.

[wanton atlas]

also

we tend to say "you do you" and no one will force you to play like they want you to play

so if you don't like save scum, then don't use it

others might need it for a reason or something

and we don't condone you for restoring a save

[wraith sleet]

Precisely

[wraith sleet]

It would, but after the update where difficulty tweaks were introduced, it’s kind of up to the player whether they want to be brutally destroyed.

[wraith sleet]

Isn't it possible to have the functionality removed into a hardcore mode?

[wanton atlas]

we could if we had unlimited resources and time

[wraith sleet]

I might be overthinking here, sorry

[wanton atlas]

no no

it's a perfectly fine idea

it just some things would just add alot of development time

right now you have no idea what you're restoring, besides seeing numbers

[rose swan]

@latent gate Achievements are coming in 1.0 🙂

[shadow crow]

I would make a drinking game out of "achievements" suggestions but I would die.

[rose swan]

Used to do suggestion bingo

[shadow crow]

I could survive bingo! 😹

[latent gate]

so like whens 1.0 dropping🤣

[wintry bobcat]

Unknown

[latent gate]

well ill be waiting even if it takes years

[wintry bobcat]

Same

[rose swan]

I’ll be disappointed if it’s after the 1st half of 2027

[wanton atlas]

https://tenor.com/view/very-nice-excellent-yes-meme-nod-gif-17397471

[wet drift]

Only reason I'd wanna know is timing playthroughs. I only do one ones in a while. It would be annoying to finish one and then the update drops two weeks later.

[languid ibex]

@meager dagger #suggestion-discussion message

Here's only one of many posts made surrounding your recent suggestion.

[meager dagger]

That's interesting. Why the stance to not make multiplayer advantages when it already is that way?

[rose swan]

This is what happened to me and my friend with the combat update haha

[rose swan]

Because they don’t multiplayer to have more advantages than it currently does I suppose 🤔

[meager dagger]

That's kinda sad because there's nothing for the passengers to do on long journeys. It's also realistic that a single person in the wild will have more difficulties compared to a party working together.

[languid ibex]

Spotting, planning, and fighting are things they can do.

[rose swan]

I see where you’re coming from. For what it’s worth, only 1 player needs to make a the journey while everyone else stays back- when the sailor finds somewhere to explore, they can put down a portal so the others can join in at that point.

When I’m a passenger, I typically play a different game or browse on my phone

[spiral ice]

You can also load up a Drakkar with catapults so everyone gets to have fun while sailing. 😄

[wintry bobcat]

I gotta admit, exorbitant costs to avoid skill loss is one of the worst non-meme ideas I've heard. Maybe that's just me though

[spiral ice]

Better idea than mating with greydwarves though. 😰

[languid ibex]

I could get behind something like that tbh, reminds me of the Death Totem in MC.

[wintry bobcat]

I just feel death cost is low enough already

Also death totem isn't expensive at all, just rare

[languid ibex]

I just mean a form of punishment negation to be fair.

[spiral ice]

Just so you know, this channel is for discussing ideas presented in the https://discord.com/channels/391142601740517377/1202312684364910612 channel.

[uncut echo]

Ah

[spiral ice]

Either way, maybe a darkwood roof sloped down on either side meeting at a point in the middle?

[uncut echo]

I'd like to use stone if i can. Was looking at some 13th century castles to try and find ideas

[wanton atlas]

There is also a sad fact.. speed limit..
Boats can't be to quickly because then the hitching lag for some low end computers and consoles will be really bad when the game constantly update map chunks as the players moves with the boat.

[meager dagger]

The boat shouldn't be faster the max speed achievable with a sail even at speed 2. What I was suggesting would improve the boats maneuverability moving without it.

[rain snow]

#suggestions message i would rather loose my skills bro what the hell is that cost

[wanton atlas]

like spinning around in circles but standing still?

[meager dagger]

That too but if players on both side of the boat paddle at the same time, have it move faster than the current speed at speed one (no sail). The speed should be slower than speed 2 (with sail).

[arctic wharf]

My goodness... I have seen this exact scenario play out like three times before
.

Going too fast is NOT a valid reason against the suggestion (rowing) since the speed being increases is the ((slowest)) speed of the boat. 💀

Setting that aside, plenty of other fairly valid opinions/reasons why the devs choose not to add such an addition, and regardless of if anyone agrees or not it is completely fair for the devs to make their own choices for what to add or not.

[arctic wharf]

On a seperate note, the death crystals idea seems like a terrible bandaid fix for a system that is sorely lacking in its current implementation...
A fix that asks you to grind grind grind (so fun, no?)

To top it off, the target audience for that are likely to die during that kind of a grind

[wanton atlas]

it will always be "fair" that we as developers refuse to add something in suggestions.

it's called #suggestions and not #demands 😅

[meager dagger]

Wait, my suggestions are being downvoted by devs?

[wanton atlas]

which one of your suggestions?

[meager dagger]

Although I've joined the discord for some time, I haven't been active here so I don't really know how things work. I just gave a couple of suggestions and I noticed the downvotes were pretty quick. I thought they were pretty good.

[main smelt]

I liked them both brother

Especially the armor one

[meager dagger]

Thanks man. I made that comment because I'm wondering if that's what the masses in the community feels. I was just a little surprised that people felt they were terrible.

[main smelt]

For a game that emphasizes decorations and pretty jouse builds id love to be able to wear my fav looking sets and have them be viable later on. But maybe that would be too tough to implement

[meager dagger]

Yeah I like the idea of having more variety at end game instead of everyone looking the same. That suggestion would make the earlier gear and maybe some of the weapons viable for end game. Some people might just like how some of the equipment look but can't use it anymore because the stats are too poor.

[main smelt]

I love the look of wolf set and padded and would love to take them further. Oh well

[meager dagger]

Might be too much but we could have unique set bonus and additional stats for the upgraded wolf set e.g. the set bonus giving wolves that follow you 200% hp and maybe a boost too damage too. However, the stuff needed to upgrade it is from the later biomes via a quest line or a unique boss drop.

Or imagine the upgraded skull shield having a random chance to spawn one or more skeletons when blocking or parrying

[rain snow]

i think this one definitly a bad idea to be honest

[rain snow]

but i have the same opinion about this we need more quest items

[glad cargo]

I scrolled a bit on your suggestions, a lot of that is mod realm. For example, the one with improving low tier armor further - why would that make sense in the scope of the game? Currently the system is pretty streamlined, upgrade up to 4, and that's it. Stats are also streamlined and it's all predictable and makes sense. Adding something like that just completely breaks the logic that armor sets follow. There could be a mod for that, since mods like to focus on specific game systems and turn them up to 11, without really caring about balance or design.

[wanton atlas]

the boss and whole progression is balanced so a skilled player can beat a biome without levling above level 1 gear in the same biome

[rain snow]

agreed

[arctic wharf]

That's what I said yeah haha

[arctic wharf]

Funny enough, I have seen all three of your more recent suggestions suggested before by others, and not even all that long ago either.

Not saying they are ones I 👎 of course, though admittedly none of them spoke to me as additions I would particularly want. (My own opinion 🫡)

Could always elaborate if you really want me to.

[wanton atlas]

I've seen most suggestions since 2020

they just keep comming back

[pulsar perch]

how many suggestions have been put into the game?

[rain snow]

i wonder did you see a suggestion that adding blunt to battleaxes
i just wonder is there was a another people before 2024 suggested it

[arctic wharf]

Hard to put an exact number on it, but actually quite a few.
(Wether taken from the suggestion channel or just coincidence)

I like to say that I had suggested the feasts, since after all they are implemented almost exactly the same as one of my old suggestions. Shame I made it pre- discord wipe...
I even had the detail of being needed to be placed first and offering multiple charges to eat.

[wanton atlas]

now why would an axe do bunt damage?

for the special attack you mean?

[rain snow]

thats yes but in normal attack too

i suggested before just wonder do you remember there was anyone else come with this idea :p

so the idea is about an object with high mass hit a target it makes a shockwave sort of thing battleaxes in reality quite heavy so i was like maybe it could give battleaxes another special thing that separets from other weapons

like %80 slash and %20 blunt that feels like such more staggering effect on the enmy

[wanton atlas]

feels like very unnessessary numbers

[rain snow]

ehh yes unfrotuneatly

[wanton atlas]

like. what's the point?

[arctic wharf]

I'll functional battle axes are not that heavy, and nearly identical to a great sword. The main difference is most of the weight is concentrated at one end

[wanton atlas]

what's the actual reason why you want it?

[rain snow]

the point is making them such more different thing like there is no weapon hits slash and blunt at same time

until few months i was thinking battleaxes was worse than other weapons but my mind changed about it

[wanton atlas]

so you just want to fill a gap of a damage type?

[rain snow]

yeah sort of

[peak bronze]

Yeah, and the 2 handed axes were actually lighter weight historically thus more agile than believed.

[wanton atlas]

the archery guy makes alot of sence if you ever seen his videos 😄

[rain snow]

didnt now it the ones in game looks heavy

[peak bronze]

Yeah, I've seen those videos.

[wanton atlas]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/45Jv_U7DAcw

this guy ^

[arctic wharf]

Yeee, the ones in game are not exactly realistic. But that's because it's a game 🤭 with a fantasy theme at that.

[wanton atlas]

what would the damage be? the point of it?
a monster will still only tell you damage inflicted to it

[rain snow]

like hitting an log with an chopping axe would make a litlle shockwave on the log
but hitting it with a 1 meter long and with an heavy metal head it would probably make it move much like jump back or move other directions as the effect of the momentum

[wanton atlas]

oh now you lost me

[arctic wharf]

I had exactly this video in mind 🌟

[peak bronze]

Mm, which kinda made me think the current battleaxe attack pattern could fit 2h sledges. Thus my suggestion after Christmas.

[wanton atlas]

I will go with ZionE on this one and leave it as "game fiction"

a game is not a "what if" theoretical machine simulator gadget

[rain snow]

yeah this thing makes sense they are unsuseable if they were heavy but the ones in the games dosent feels like it

[arctic wharf]

Yep, game fiction

[rain snow]

main reason was the making battleaxes more unique

[arctic wharf]

We are mythical super human vikings, rawr 🐱

[rain snow]

and this felt a reasoneable a bit

[arctic wharf]

Probably would have little to no real impact though

[rain snow]

we have daggers hitting pierce and blunt

[wanton atlas]

no impact what-so-ever

[rain snow]

and worse of all when i think about it later it would nerf the battleaxes against abominations

and loxes so its not such a great idea

[peak bronze]

Lox resist slash too, so no impact.

[rain snow]

oh didnt know it

anyway my reason to ask this today was not suggesting again i just wondered there was another player

[peak bronze]

They resist frost, blunt and slash, neutral to pierce, poison and lightning and weak to fire.

[peak bronze]

At least I haven't seen others suggesting the same.

[rain snow]

anyway its a bad idea for gameplay reasons

[arctic wharf]

Wouldn't even say it's a bad idea, just unnecessary.

[rain snow]

btw if we consider this battleaxes should have faster attack speed 😛

just joking btw

[rain snow]

i know unfortuneatly

but still i am wondering why they are not separeting secondary attacks to have different damage types

[peak bronze]

Psst, my suggestion: #suggestions message

[wanton atlas]

just like spin-to-win diablo style?

[peak bronze]

We got atgeirs for that.

[wanton atlas]

complexity, programming time, etc etc etc

[rain snow]

definitly voting up this one 😛

[wanton atlas]

each attack could technically have it's own "damage"

[arctic wharf]

Combat in valheim is not all that deep, and being honest I don't think IG is all that amazing at designing it.

It's more just serviceable to the overall experience.

(Corrected, sword thrust does not deal peirce damage, still slash)

[rain snow]

understandeable you already have a lot of work

[wanton atlas]

but do you want to spend the next 200 years programming that code?

and also

the effort vs effect

you can spend 200 years to program something, and the players will just don't care

[peak bronze]

Sword secondary is still slash.

[arctic wharf]

This is the best argument imo, that's how I see all additions considering the small size of the team.
Ideally you aim for what has the most impact for the least dev cost.

[rain snow]

when i was first time played this game i couldnt believe developers planing keep adding content after plains
because to be honest if you guys finished the game right there probably not so much people would have complained about it game is have quite content

[arctic wharf]

Am I going crazy? I thought the stab was peirce 🤔

Maybe I am mistaking some past suggestion.

[rain snow]

probably

[peak bronze]

Yeah, no. Could be, but they're always dealt slash.

[rain snow]

#suggestions message btw its such a good suggestion that usualy peoples down votes suggestions with multiple suggestion included it get only one wow

[arctic wharf]

Idk, I really thought the secondary attack (thrust) dealt peirce damage instead.

🤣

[rain snow]

yeah but one of the main issues about if we give different damage to different attacks like
battleaxe is meant to be good against abominations but changing its secondary makes it worse
or swords secondary would performs worse against most of the late game enemies

[arctic wharf]

I didn't say I wanted it to, I just thought it did already.

[rain snow]

yeah i thought the same about it until i tried on a troll and didnt hit a crit i died 😭

[arctic wharf]

Things get jumbled in my memory sometimes though I generally have pretty decent memory.

[peak bronze]

I thought it as one, as some changes to some 2h weapons.

[peak bronze]

If it did it would suck against most bosses that resist pierce.

[rain snow]

yeah

[meager dagger]

I didn't know as I didn't scroll all the way up to read everything. I posted whatever came to mind before I forgot.

[meager dagger]

That's a good thing right? Wouldn't that mean those are features people would like to see in the game?

[arctic wharf]

Most people do yeah, rarely will they search the channel prior.
It doesn't really matter ofc.

[wanton atlas]

many people play medows, and then start suggesting things to the game

[arctic wharf]

Meadows only 🤔
I have seen it plenty of times too ofc, people making suggestions while still in earlier biomes.

[wanton atlas]

if you read many suggestions, alot of them are about the starting biome

Horse travel

[arctic wharf]

I read them all kekeke

[wanton atlas]

before they go into black forrest, swamps etc

not sure what you would do with a horse in those 2 biomes 😄

[arctic wharf]

Run into trees mostly I imagine

[meager dagger]

Ah I didn't know that. I avoid large walls of text usually. I only posted because I enjoy game and hoped the suggestions would be useful.

[arctic wharf]

Discord has a search feature, so no need to read.
Putting in a kay word and searching only the suggestions channel will usually find out if it has been suggested before.

Most people are not that familiar with discord functions ofc, and I don't exactly blame them.
There is a lot.

[meager dagger]

Yeah probably more could have been done by me there. I think it was more like I don't see those features implemented and I thought those were really good ideas so I assumed no one had already suggested else it would already be in the game.

[arctic wharf]

Quite the assumption, but yeah I won't hold it over you. Just was noting they have all been suggested before, and almost exactly as you have laid them out at that.

[peak bronze]

Watch in horror how they get alerted and run away for miles away (or at the border of active area in reality) and then try looking out for them and find out they died already to some random troll/bear.

[wanton atlas]

lol true

poor horses

[shadow crow]

I can tell you exactly what you’ll do with horses. Watch in horror as a troll charges out of the smallest, most random patch of forest and smashes your horse into jelly, along with the cart it was pulling. Mods took the hypothetical out of the equation 😅

[wanton atlas]

are you old enough to have seen the movie "neverending story"?

https://tenor.com/view/horse-come-on-lets-go-never-ending-story-gif-13995468

this scene

emotionally scared a generation of horse girls in scandinavian countries 😬

[shadow crow]

Neverending Story here but yes

Artax 😭

[autumn idol]

On the topic of horses, it has occurred to me that the only biomes where it makes sense to introduce and use a rideable creature are the Plains and Ashlands (which have Lox and Asksvin).

Meadows is too early for riding (IMO)

Black Forest and Swamp have way too many obstacles for riding to be practical

[wanton atlas]

yes

[autumn idol]

And the Mountain + Mistlands have insane elevation changes that would also make riding a pain

So yeah, IMO we already have all the rideable creatures we need in all the biomes that could use them

[shadow crow]

Unless the rideable was a goat 🐐

https://tenor.com/view/goat-wild-goat-siberian-ibex-siberian-ibex-gif-4821889328415957999

[wet drift]

Could have it in meadows, but at a minimum radius. This kinda puts it outside progression. Which I think is okay.

Big problem is still how to not make movement speed too usefull. This is a bigger problem with horses than loxes.

My best solution has been to just have them so low on hp that they are effectively stuck in meadows.

This would more or less make them a roleplay activity rather than a serious tool. (Which honestly could be said for existing mounts anyway)

[pulsar perch]

the issue then is putting in all the effort of making horses just to serve as a roleplaying tool

[wet drift]

Ye

I would probably take them over both existing mounts, but said existing mounts already exist so that time can't be refunded.

[rose swan]

Lox should’ve never been able to be mounted

[wanton atlas]

the lox comes in a place where most issues are "gone" from the biomes layout

[rose swan]

It was always a crazy popular suggestion back before; lots of people wanted to ride lox 🤔

[wanton atlas]

you don't go "back" into mountains with a lox

[rose swan]

You don’t go forward into Mistalnds with them either haha

[shadow crow]

fastens 23 feather capes to the lox and charges off an outcropping

[mellow crater]

Oh don’t say that, I am so happy to travel through those plains on the back of my lox !

Just for the feeling

[boreal thorn]

What are the odds of minecarts being added to the game?

[languid ibex]

I would say extremely low.

[boreal thorn]

Give us all kinds of mounts or ways to travel without walking, and then your character becomes fat due to lack of exercise.

You get reduced movement speed, but more health.

[rose swan]

All of which would be pretty obsolete because of this fella ->

[static vigil]

OMG now I wanna see a bear scratching

[boreal thorn]

You'd be too fat to go through it.

[hexed jewel]

if you've never used a lox as a piece of logging equipment, you have missed out on one the major pleasures of the Valheim Experience (TM)

[lament zinc]

Not to mention the Deer or Boar Ragout.

[eternal wyvern]

Good thing I pretty much only mount Deathsquitos in the plains.

[languid ibex]

Voltures are the best mounts.

[peak bronze]

Or wraiths, straight up.

[languid ibex]

That's exactly what Voltures do as well hehe

[languid ibex]

@supple aurora Move your signs 💀

[supple aurora]

That's...also annoying though? I'm suggesting there be an option to not have signs interfere with other interactive objects so they can remain within clicking distance of each other.

[languid ibex]

It's an annoyance of your own making though, that'd be like suggesting a toggle for interacting with beds because you placed it too close to your campfire and you keep accidentally sleeping. 😅

[supple aurora]

Let me ask you why you're opposed though. You haven't actually given a meaningful reason

[brazen smelt]

Nah, it's like the trophy mount blockage

[supple aurora]

Like would having a toggle option negatively effect your gameplay?

[brazen smelt]

Not at all like your analogy, the QOL of labelling boxes is common in a lot of games, most people playing have likely labelled their storage. It is a lot more intrinsic to storage management than a poorly placed bed

[languid ibex]

Disabling interactions could easily go unnoticed and result in problem solving for only a small amount of people, it's better to encourage building where meshed together interactables are considered while building.

[languid ibex]

Even in those cases, there is no need for disabled interactions, because in any other game where this is the case, space for such things are considered.

[brazen smelt]

Most other games i've seen build the labelling into the box itself, rather than use a separate signpost (a somewhat less elegant solution) that creates the issue Narwhal is describing

[languid ibex]

The example was to emphasize that they're just approaching it incorrectly, like a poorly placed bed.

[supple aurora]

"iT's BeTtEr To EnCoUrAgE bUiLdInG blah blah blah"

[languid ibex]

I've definitely seen plenty of either, but the suggestion isn't to integrate labels into chests anyways.

[languid ibex]

If you want to mock and not discuss, just don't reply champ.

[brazen smelt]

You're right, the suggestion is a simpler work around to the problem that i don't see inhibiting gameplay and promotes more creative build freedom

[supple aurora]

I'm here discussing. You are opposing in bad faith. Don't call my building preferences "bad building" because I want to have a sign close to it's designated chest 🙄

[brazen smelt]

I think it's a good suggestion, Narwhal, personally don't want floating symbols or text like in Enshrouded or Grounded. Keep it as the little signs i also use for portals etc

[supple aurora]

You're the one trying to inflict your building and gameplay preferences on others

[languid ibex]

I'm not sure you understand usage of bad faith, I'm being pretty straightforward with you.

[languid ibex]

I'm just attempting to help you see that you can easily achieve what you like with what exists in-game. Inflicting building and gameplay preferences is a bit hypocritical, as that is also what the suggestion is doing.

[static vigil]

Lol you're the only one using bad faith here

[supple aurora]

The suggestion is an OPTION to change sign interaction. Meaning people could choose when to use it. As is now, there is no option and you wanting it to remain as is means you're wanting to limit others on how they build

[static vigil]

Yes. Too many toggles makes for an unusable UI.

[languid ibex]

I understand you think that because it's optional it shouldn't be opposed, but that's just not the case here.

[static vigil]

If the suggestion had been to be able to label chests, that'd be one thing, but adding toggles all over the place? Nah

[long glacier]

it's 1 toggle in settings, not that big of a thing

[languid ibex]

It's not, but it's also not a big thing to just build with some awareness.

[brazen smelt]

'All over the place...' Speaking of bad faith conclusions...
It's in the same vein as hold interact to change what has been placed, a change i liked

[supple aurora]

Yeah I mean, shit I don't want to crash the game lol but I don't think it'd be too invasive?

[static vigil]

Unless you apply that logic to many suggestions, then you have dozens of toggles

[long glacier]

I don't label chests at all but I'm still in support of adding a toggle if it would be easy developmentwise because it makes my experience not at all worse and makes some people's experience better

[supple aurora]

You get it

[languid ibex]

I'm not even convinced that would be convenient anyways. There's too many unknowns with it, are players that place new signs going to have to toggle again? Do interactions become possible through signs or simply block anything behind them? Etc.

[supple aurora]

Back to this reply, I think my problem with the thumbs down votes on this is no one said yet how it negatively impacts their own gameplay. Like thumbs down votes should only be opposition, not, "I wouldn't personally use this feature". Only thing I can think of is if the toggle prompt itself is invasive.

[languid ibex]

It's simple, player learns to place things conveniently or how to navigate their own builds vs. developer looks for every reason to hand hold niche building practices.

[brazen smelt]

How many times now have you attempted to shut down this suggestion with 'build better'? Your point has been made, you're trying to shut down discussion, not promote it

[static vigil]

Let's not bring to light the fact that people downvote suggestions or who's adding downvotes. Approving or disliking suggestions is a way of life, it's always going to happen 😄

[languid ibex]

They mentioned they can't think of any other reasons, try not to detract too far from the points made.

[brazen smelt]

You're just here to argue.

So... bag space, inventory improvement, ragdoll/backpack/pouches... lol

[languid ibex]

It's a discussion channel, I have an opposing view, you'll be okay.

Life goes on. 👍

[eternal wyvern]

I don't think it should be an option, they should be edit-able once after placing and that's it. No interactions with the sign edit menu after that unless you break and place it again.

I like the overall idea of somehow removing interactions with them, it'd be nice.

[languid ibex]

That'd be a good approach, but it could get a bit annoying to navigate if you're lining signs up by hand and have specific orientations you're trying to accomplish.

[eternal wyvern]

Do you mean for seeing which way the text is going to be facing?

[languid ibex]

Not necessarily, that's indicated by the 3 dots at the moment, I mean if you're aligning signs next to each other, and placement becomes tricky based on builds, you'll have a text prompt popping up each time. Even when you know you have to cancel it and remove the object.

Unless I'm interpreting that incorrectly, and you mean you can freely edit it one single time after placing.

[eternal wyvern]

Sorry if I didn't make it clear, but that's not how I would imagine it would be implemented.
First you place it, no prompt to edit.
Then you press e on the sign to edit and can't edit any further.

[languid ibex]

Ah okay, I do like that better.

A bit punishing for spelling mistakes/text changes for signs that were difficult to align.

[eternal wyvern]

a teaching moment indeed

[languid ibex]

Definitely, though I still think you'd just be trading one teaching moment for another ultimately.

[eternal wyvern]

tbh I would be replacing those signs myself quite a bit, but I think it's a better alternative than an option in the settings.

[languid ibex]

Yeah, I just think it's not a big ask for developers to expect players to navigate interact fields themselves.

[eternal wyvern]

I agree to be honest, once you get used to hovering at the right area it's no longer a problem.

[stiff stag]

I would rather the behavior remain as it is, but add either a button in the edit menu to lock the text, or have an item when used on the sign that locks it in. Forcing unwanted behavior as the default (like not being able to edit them any further) would just be bad game design.

[runic plover]

Alternatively, what if editing a sign required a brief holding of the interact button, like with auto-depositing in chests?

[stiff stag]

The "issue" only really comes up when you have signs on chests for labeling. Since holding e would be a function shared by chests and signs if that change were made, it would still be possible to accidentally hover over the sign instead of the chest and thus interact with the wrong thing.

[runic plover]

You would still have a second to notice a chest didn't open. Besides which, not all chest interactions are depositing items. I think it would be an improvement, even if not a perfect solution.

[lofty field]

That I would hate. I'd much prefer they changed the interaction to another key/combination of keys like when renaming tames.

[wanton atlas]

@sterile niche how serious are you about that suggestion?

[simple hound]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3u32ZA8xh0

(In relation to your post Smiffe)

[ashen meadow]

Smells like

[brazen smelt]

@summer bobcat Sounds kind of like what they did with Jade, be nice if this was an effect of poison in general imo - poison not only stacks but produces this effect at x stacks.
Would make Jade a lot more enticing as an option... and possibly transform the Jotun Bane into a weapon instead of a strange lumberjack tool. Beware the greydwarf shaman

[stiff stag]

#suggestions message then you should have used the mead before it became a problem in that situation, and dying is a fitting consequence for that error in judgement. I don't feel like it should act as a quick fix for people that were too careless to use the mead when they had the chance to.

[rose swan]

Once poisoned, your best option (excluding 🧀) is to get your health up- healing mead is one of your better options.

[hexed jewel]

ALSO if it's feasible to pull off, step back & forth through a portal (you gain temporary invulnerability each time you pass through a portal PRETTY sure it includes already existing DoTs on you)--which is KINDA arguably cheese too, but maybe arguably LESS cheese than the logout exploit

[long glacier]

I think you can do a similar thing with entering and exiting crypts

[hexed jewel]

i bet you're right, i hadn't even thought of that, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if they're using a functionally identical mechanic (the player moving between portals, and the player moving between the dungeon entrance in the overworld and the dungeon constructed in the sky)

[fast void]

Catching up on the reading and I am the kid from that meme asking:

Wait... you guys put signs in your storage area?

[wanton atlas]

IKR?

[languid ibex]

Yes, and my group still doesn't put things in the right places 😀

[wanton atlas]

place down drop-boxes

so the "sorting person" can sort stuff

[eternal wyvern]

but what if we're all alphas that like to go out and slay dragons?

[wanton atlas]

like a true viking?

[fast void]

If all of you are alphas, by definition none of you are 😏

[arctic wharf]

Inventory management at the base has NEVER been a fun aspect of gameplay for me. I would much rather have a special chest that sorts whatever you put into it into other nearby chests (IF one exists that already has the item and has space).

Finding what I want and pulling it out to craft with is never as bad as having to dump everything I grab while out.

Wonder if such a mod exists yet. 🤔

[shadow crow]

it does. For both sorting & crafting from containers

[arctic wharf]

I expected crafting from containers would ofc. Starting to become a staple in many similar games, though I am usually fine without that.
... convenience is tempting ...

[brazen smelt]

The crafting from containers is the one I'd be most tempted by, primarily for cooking and overindulgent base building

[fast void]

🤢

[rose swan]

Maybe I’m old fashioned, but I still enjoy organizing my inventories/storage the manual way
Though I admit, the quick stack feature in Terraria is so nice! Keeps you in the action for sure.

[languid ibex]

I feel the same, I enjoy wheeling a cart full of supplies to a build site, and finding ways to streamline accessing materials near stations.

It's just the right amount of immersion for me.

[eternal wyvern]

Stack into chest def helps, I don't want to spend more time putting the items away than I did actually exploring the Ashlands. It's not a big thing for the other biomes imo.

[arctic wharf]

I like the idea that the deverger might ask for a sum of coin first before going hostile, or having some way to pacify them again 😅
Though 500 might be a bit much. Perhaps it can scale some based on the level of the offense so just a little poke of their structures is an easier slight to rectify. On the flip side, stealing their extractor might be going too fa to get the option at all.

Always been mostly neutral to the prospect of maybe getting the option to barter for it though.

[wintry bobcat]

Chest management was too much for me, but the quick stack feature they added feels perfect to me

[stiff stag]

#suggestions message There is no way to distinguish between whether they were angered by their buildings being attacked (not to mention there's no way to detect whether an attack was accidental or intentional) or if they were angered because you attacked or killed one of them, so it would be extremely weird for them to just forgive you murdering their kind by paying them. They are also not even on friendly terms to begin with, barely just tolerating your presence, so next to no chance they would be willing to forgive you regardless. It would also make dealing with dvergr very trivial if you could attack them then pacify them whenever you want. Want to get the extractor? Just "accidentally" break the container it's in then pay the dvergr and be on your way.

[arctic wharf]

I mean... the could probably make a way to detect between a few ways of what angered them 👀

After all, it is already checking for the actions to anger them.

[lofty field]

Yeah, distinguishing between intentional or accidental attack may be impossible, but it's certainly possible to add different behavior based on what was attacked. Maybe they should not accept the bribe when the extractor/soft tissue crate was attacked, but they may be lenient if it was just a stakewall.

That being said, I don't think that this feature is worth the trouble and I personally would prefer that the devs use their time for other things.

[rose swan]

I just want to see outright hostile Dvergr

[autumn idol]

Dvergr Bandits that try to ambush you could be cool

Now I’m imagining a wolf style raid where they jump you anywhere outside your base xD

[languid ibex]

It could be a "Player killed x amount of Dvergr" raid activation

To simulate their anger 😅

[rose swan]

I actually love this 👀

[shadow crow]

“The Underbrush Rustles”

[rose swan]

“Tiny legs, big problems”

[autumn idol]

“Hands up! This is a robbery!”

[lament zinc]

#suggestions message
Why would use keep using a portal using wood when we got a much better portal using stone around?

[wanton atlas]

@sinful hawk what's wrong with the stone portal in ashlands?

[sinful hawk]

Less convienent from my experience maybe im just not prepared enough tho

[wanton atlas]

but you know we have one right?

so what you want is basicly a normal teleporter made out of materials from ashlands?

[sinful hawk]

Yuhh

[eternal wyvern]

Tbh I'm not a big fan of the idea. There are many reasons said above that I agree with, but also these guys are in a constant losing struggle against the Seekers, I like that they're aggressive even to the slightest of disturbances and will not take chances with you.

I do think being able to barter with them after beating the queen would be cool.

[arctic wharf]

In the end I could take it or leave it anywho, The game is more than good enough as it is now.

[split zinc]

Some observations on noportal mode: https://paste-bin.org/raw/gvzj3di9sz

[languid ibex]

These aren't observations, it's feedback, and it largely communicates that your party wanted a faster/streamlined experience.

[rose swan]

On number 4: Even in regular mode it’s not worth it to complete Hildirs quests 🌶️

[lofty wave]

do they need more fireworks?

[brazen smelt]

Hitting the shielded zone around a dvergr fortress with an arrow that would never have hit the structure but the gjall attacking them did feel like a bit much to incur aggro

[mellow wolf]

@ivory nest I agree about the iron part. Iron is so valuable, yet the most boring thing to farm. Just AoE kill all the mobs in the other room with a hammer without ever touching them. Where is the fun or challenge in that...

Surely devs can find some more creative ways of obtaining iron, other than going through boring, generic crypts with 0 challenge. Crypts are a joke.

[wintry bobcat]

of course a game is gonna be boring if you cheese everything

[pulsar perch]

i find it strange how much iron you need when something like black metal doesnt have much of a use

[wintry bobcat]

I like the iron grind because you actually have to fight enemies and it's not as slow as the dreary copper grind

[mellow wolf]

I can't stress this enough. Sure, AoE hammer can be nice when being swarmed by a tons of tiny mobs but it's so easy to cheese this item (also in the Mist crypts) that it's not even fun

[wintry bobcat]

I find the game a lot more enjoyable when banning the cheesy stuff yea

[pulsar perch]

clearing crypts is a lot more fun when you dont cheese it tho

[wintry bobcat]

Valheim is a very cheeseable game though, I don't see devs really changing that. More up to player's own agency

[pulsar perch]

yeah every boss can be cheesed super easy

[mellow wolf]

Guys I am not sure I can take you seriously right now. AoE hammers are legit items that you can craft and use in the game. Are you telling me that I should handicap myself by not making them, because the devs don't want to rebalance how they are used?

Ok here is a quick suggestion, how they could balance it:

1). Forbid all AoE-hammer items in tight crypts and dungeons
2). Put a cooldown on how often you can use them
3). More stamina penalty for using them

[wintry bobcat]

Feels like pretty common sense to me

If the devs put something unfun in the game and refuse to remove it, then don't use it. Why would you intentionally ruin your own fun?

[mellow wolf]

You can't put a BFG gun with unlimited ammo in Doom and tell me to stop using it. It's just silly..

[pulsar perch]

they are an item you can use but it's also gonna ruin your fun if you use it a lot

[wintry bobcat]

Not to say everything is devs fault, players will always find a way of using items differently than they're intended or devs just won't realize their power in the first place

2h hammers are far from the worst offenders though. Bows are way way way worse, magic and atgeirs too

[mellow wolf]

"Cheesing" would be to exploit minor bugs to defeat a boss in an easy mode. This AoE-hammer thing... it's not even cheesing. End of discussion

[pulsar perch]

i can beat moder with 4 campfires but that would also ruin my fun so i handicap myself in that way

[wintry bobcat]

eh cheesing is a pretty loose definition, different for each person.

I'm not sure if the damage through walls is an exploit or an intentional game mechanic, but it definitely feels cheesy to me to kill enemies with no skill required without them being able to react in any way

[pulsar perch]

cheesing doesnt always refer to bugs it can just be using super OP things for an advantage

[wintry bobcat]

or instead of a bunch of silly suggestions, how about preventing AoE's from passing thorugh walls?

[mellow wolf]

Ok, if it's a coding issue, then here is another suggestion for how this could be balanced (in Crypts, for instance): If an ooze or draugr can't reach your, then using the hammer should not kill them.

You shouldn't be able to spam the hammer in the other room, blocked by the wall-slime-thing in between you and the enemies if those enemies can't literally reach you and touch you.

Are you telling me that the pros who coded Valheim itself can't achieve this modification?

[pulsar perch]

maybe but it would probably take a lot of time that could be spent elsewhere

[wintry bobcat]

It's a good question. I don't know if it's a physical (coding) limitation, but moreso I think the hammers through walls and other OP / exploity stuff in the game is just accepted by them. The game isn't centered around combat and there's a lot of people playing for the exploration, building, companionship, etc. so they might just see these things as smaller issues that they don't bother to fix, at least not yet (ig the game is still in early access too)

Some games do try to overly restrict things to prevent exploiting them but then thigns end up getting clunky so could be they're afraid of that too. Or more likely, they recognize that most people who like cheese will cheese and most people who don't, won't

I think preventing cheese is more relevant in pvp or intense co-op games. You don't want an opponent to be able to oneshot you by exploiting some bullshit in pvp games, and in games like Destiny for example people may feel more pressured to exploit because other people are doing it and they don't want to fall behind

But Valheim doesn't really feel like that experience to me. It's more of a singleplayer / play with friends chill game where you make the experience you want. Choose your settings, decide not to exploit, have fun

[mellow wolf]

Here is a pseudo code for you that you can give to ChatGPT and it will spit out a real code for you in a second:

if enemy proximity to you (in crypts or infested mines) is greater than said value, then:

using the aoe-hammer (of any kind) does 0 damage

otherwise (else) do normal damage

[pulsar perch]

it's not that simple

we dont even know how the attacks are coded to work in the game

[wintry bobcat]

You probably could do something even simpler than that. Reduce AoE of 2h hammers by x percent inside dungeons. But all of these "fixes" also just makes the weapon feel inconsistent for seemingly no reason, which can really disastisfy players

"Why can I hit everything around me usually but whenever I'm in a dungeon it can't hit anyone unless they're standing on top of me!?!?"

[mellow wolf]

A specific example: if a zombie keeps walking towards you ad infinitum, then it has to be immune to "hammer aoe through the wall damage".

Another thing that could be pretty cool is that the enemies could hide. Because right now they behave like a bunch of idiots. The moment you start mining through the "ooze thing" that leads to the next room, they just keep walking towards you, not able to do anything. But if they could just ignore your presense, right until you have entered the next room - that would make things more interesting, challenging a creepy. The current enemy pattern is too predictible and boring.

[wintry bobcat]

Valheim's combat is pretty simplistic. Somehow I really love it despite all it's flaws, but man I'd love smarter AI, less OP weapons, etc.

I just don't think it's their focus though

[mellow wolf]

Here is an another argument for why crypts suck atm. The swamp itself is scary AF at night. Wraiths can spawn anywhere and get you. But then you go down the crypt, you put your cozy little fire, you heal quickly, get your comfort buff. There are no enemy sounds. You are safe. That is pretty unbalanced.

And yeah, I could muster the willpower to stop "cheesing" the game. But tell that to the masses when 1.0 comes. They can make a hammer, they will make a hammer and they will use it. Way too easy mode to get iron - one of the most valuable ressources in the game. A lost oportunity, if you ask me.

Remember how nervous you were in the Plains, having all of your senses out for those darn deathsquittos? This is the sort of dread you should feel when you are in the crypts.

Because when you do succeed - then the victory will be even sweeter

[languid ibex]

Crypts aren't so difficult I need a Hammer, I rarely, if ever, see any gameplay with hammer in crypts.

Should we "fix" picking a hole to shoot a bow through, or a gap large enough to trap an enemy while we swing? It's not that big of a deal if players find advantages in the odd place, Valheim will still present you with challenges.

[mellow wolf]

Should we "fix" picking a hole to shoot a bow through <-- this would not be necessary if the enemies were smarter and hid from you, for instance, as I already mentioned. Using the hammer in dungeons is equivalent of being able to kill the enemies through the wall with a gun, except easier, since the enemies are drawn to you like magnets and the aoe from the hammer is almost guaranteed to hit the nearby enemies.

to trap an enemy while we swing <-- how often does that happen? And if you managed to do that, you earned your easy kill.

[pulsar perch]

the devs will never be able to prevent every way of cheesing the game so i think they just leave it up to the players for whether or not they want to use cheeses

[mellow wolf]

It's not a question of "I am so good at this game, I can do without the hammer" or "you can just omit using it voluntarily".

It's the question of the first impression of the game for new players. And there will be a lot of new players, especially after the release of 1.0

And if some areas of the game are ridiculously hard (like facing a deathsquitto without a shield and not knowing how to dodge-roll), while other areas don't even present any challenge - then it's a lack of balance.

You know that meme where you can never get enough iron, no matter how much you already got?

Combine it with the fact that you can basically skip all the fights in the crypts, while obtaining the iron.

You need TONS of iron. You get it mostly in crypts. Crypts present no challenge, at all, when using a hammer - this way you can skip all the fights. The biggest challenge when getting lots of iron is not to fall asleep while digging through mud piles.

A better balance would be is to make the fights in the crypts uncheesable with the hammer and award you higher quantities of iron.

[wintry bobcat]

How many people do you think actually use hammers in crypts AND find it to be an issue? Feels like this is a pretty personalized issue for you and not representative of what the playerbase at large needs

Also if people feel like it takes too long to get iron there are better ways than using a hammer

Like upping resource rate

[mellow wolf]

Because I love Valheim too much not to mention this. Because the boredom of getting iron is one of those things that I'm not looking forward to on my next playthrough.

[pulsar perch]

but you can just not use a hammer when getting iron facing all the enemies head on is much faster anyway

[wintry bobcat]

I think it's just a self-discipline thing. There's some people who have a hard time not using the most optimal/op/game-breaking things available because they think they are sabotaging themselves by not doing so

But projecting that to be a big issue that everyone encounters is a bit much

[mellow wolf]

Imho the whole crypts should be remade. Maybe adding an additional floor beneath the current one, where there is a lot of pure iron down there. The challenge would be to get to the lower floor

The crypt instance is not even the part of the world - the game loads the crypts as a seperate instance.

[wintry bobcat]

That said I'm all for fixing hammers, but I understand if it's not something devs care about

[pulsar perch]

crypts are part of the world they are just very high up

[wintry bobcat]

They're floating way up in the sky. It's funny sometimes when you've been breaking mudpiles in the crypts and you exit, you see iron lying around on the ground because it fell out of the crypt and all the way down to the ground

[pulsar perch]

i also wouldnt mind hammers being fixed but it seems like a lot of time and effort for something that isn't gonna have much of an impact

[mellow wolf]

I meant - it's not a seamless transition between the main world and the crypt. Meaning, if devs came up with another, more interesting, layout algorithm for generating crypts, it could be replaced with the current boring design.

[mellow wolf]

It honestly sounds like an easy fix. The game should look at where you are. Is the player in the crypt (or infested mine)? Then modify the behavior of the hammer

[fast void]

This is a great pun.

[mellow wolf]

Can you walk from room 1 to room 2? No? Then prevent the player from killing enemies in room2, while standing in room1. There are a lot of creative solutions

[fast void]

It is not anywhere close to that easy.

[mellow wolf]

Can the enemy reach you, so they stop walking and start attacking? No? Then make that enemy immune to hammers. I could go on.

[pulsar perch]

it may seem like an easy fix but if i know anything about coding something is never an easy fix

[wintry bobcat]

To me it often boils down to two options:

Have a good exploitable mechanic

Or

Have a bad non-exploitable mechanic

I'd rather have a hammer that works well all the time, and doesn't get random nonsensical penalties put on it in random areas. EVEN IF that means that if you really want to you can exploit stuff with it

As compared to having a non-cheesy hammer that doesn't feel good because it gets random limitations put on it in some areas

Ideal would be to just fix the exploity thing only, but for a lot of cases that's very difficult / not worth it

[pulsar perch]

but what about bows or if your between room 1 and room 2

[mellow wolf]

You are in room 1 and there are enemies in room2. Is there a direct access from room 1 to room2? No? Then the enemies should not even move or make a sound.

Otherwise you just spam your hemmer until you don't see or hear enemies. Is that good gameplay, you think?

[mellow wolf]

See my latest reply

You are basically reducing the gameplay to the braindead Diablo gameplay where you spam an ability until there is nothing left alive. I am saying there should be some sort of strategy or planning. Like dodging, parrying, building a mini base, getting a comfort buff, etc.

People who played Dark Souls would relate to this

[pulsar perch]

there is strategy and planning if you use anything but the hammer

[mellow wolf]

then nerf the hammer - end of story. I am not going to say anything from now on. I said everything I wanted to say. If you want these flaws to persist, be my guest. But then don't wonder why this game is not more popular in the future, as it could have been. There is so much potential in this game and the "overpoweredness" of the hammer in dungeons is a joke.

[runic plover]

Enemies can get blocked by very small pieces of a scrap pile. Sometimes, those little pieces may not even be very visible. I've had many instances where the enemy can't leave the room, but if I walk to the scrap, they can attack me.

[spiral ice]

If you reach the Plains without knowing how to dodge roll, maybe you shouldn't be fighting anything without a shield.

[rose swan]

Something about hammers going on in here? 🤔

[peak bronze]

https://tenor.com/view/cheese-for-everyone-celebration-sheogorath-oblivion-cheese-gif-17388331

[rose swan]

A core memory LOL

[wanton atlas]

game is not popular due to the exploits in the game?

[runic plover]

Apparently. I've never really heard of people leaving a game over a little cheese after already investing that much time to get that far. I can say I didn't even know about that cheese for a long time when I started playing. First hammer I ever made is demolisher.

[fathom atlas]

if you dont like to cheese things then dont cheese them

elden ring mage build ass argument

you can make the game as hard or as easy as you want thats up to you

[wanton atlas]

usually the oposite

people play it because the developers haven't removed fun exploits people can use

and since Valheim isn't a MMORPG. it doesn't matter honestly

IMHO

[runic plover]

I know I've certainly been delighted by discovering some way of exploiting the mechanics or programming in some way to get around obstacles. Makes me feel clever.

[runic plover]

Exactly. If playing alone, who cares how you choose to go about anything? Don't like hammer exploits? Don't use them.

[rose swan]

Hmm well, the stance that the hammer exploit is going to have an impact on the games popularity is a bit absurd. The stance that a developer should ignore an exploit, or even players ignoring an exploit, is also absurd imo.

Of course, as with virtually everything- there’s a balance. It’s about deciding if an exploit is worth addressing or not. Can’t think of any off the top of my head, but I’m sure there’s been a handful of exploits that have been patched out of Valheim. There’s some that aren’t really worth addressing; logging out to erase poison, hammer aoe through walls, stone duplication, etc.

[arctic wharf]

I think hammers break the game in a similar way to atgiers, just one is clipping AOE and the other is infinite AOE stun.
Both kind of throw the balance for a loop, but they don't destroy the fun of the game either... so It is just so/so to me to see them adressed. It would be a net positive sure, but its also not detracting from the experience much at all.
In the same vain, magic also throws balance out the window, but it is what it is.

None of these are like, say, skills, which IMO almost feel like a bit of a trap. Not worth trying to worry about but also always in your face making you think you should give them more attention than you need to.

And since it is possible to mindlessly grind them, some feel compelled to then engage in very not fun gameplay.

Which is also going to waste tons of time as it takes unreasonable amounts of XP at higher levels, and a single death will make you lose hours more (if you were foolish enough to grind any in the first place).

.
But that's somewhat just my opinion I suppose 🤷‍♂️

They are still not holding back the experience either and so are not detrimental to adress.

Thankfully nothing that is truly detrimental to the experience exists, since they make dang sure there isn't.

[wanton atlas]

more issue with monsters not destroying things that you place infront of them

will probably write it up that all "buildable" objects in a dungeon will be a priority for monsters to destroy if they cannot get to the player to avoid such dumb AI failiure

since the monster will only prioritize certain objects, and a sitting log and such items aren't priority atm

[arctic wharf]

That's another issue indeed that is easily abuseable.

This is when mobs in dungeons will attack built objects if they are closer than the player is, and they will instantly break them too so as not to get too hung up on attacking it.

Maybe toss in a little move/attack speed buff they get when breaking a player built object to even further minimize the delay if the player spams some objects.

Finally make the objects not return materials inside dungeons.
That should do it haha

[stiff stag]

#suggestions message what you're describing sounds like a bug if they burn even while protected by a shield generator, in which case it doesn't belong in #suggestions .

[fast void]

@echo arch sounds like you need new friends 🤷‍♂️

[languid ibex]

Yeah, that's a trust issue not a game issue

[echo arch]

I don't see why giving folks control over how their server functions like that affects anyone else.

My little brother and his friends are young and morally weak but I do enjoy playing with them.

[languid ibex]

You do have control, just change the password on people that do that. If that doesn't interest you, it must not be a big enough deal

[echo arch]

Why are you opposed to it?

Including a togglable option to lock characters to a server seems to be giving folks running servers more option. Really a win for everyone. If you don't like it, don't toggle it.

[languid ibex]

Devs have stated their position on this, and players will either lose progress because of locked characters, or find a way around such things if so inclined.

[echo arch]

I tried finding a dev comment on it for a while last night with no luck.

[languid ibex]

#suggestion-discussion message There you go.

[echo arch]

Plus isn't there a mod that does this in a way that players don't lose progress? There's backups made of the characters regularly etc.

[echo arch]

Oh! Thanks! I didn't realize the devs commented here. I was looking online.

[rose swan]

This reminds me of me and my son playing Minecraft- he’ll go into creative mode to get powerful gear

At least, he used to! Now that he’s a bit older, he likes to play the ‘normal’ way haha

[fast void]

I was ok with the trident suggestion until they added the wet immunity part 😞

[echo arch]

Yeah, just cause folks are young and don't realize they're ruining their own fun doesn't mean I don't want to play with them till they figure it out.

These guys are good kids and wouldn't download cheat software or anything but if you make it easy to get something they have been struggling to get they will.

It seems strange to me that it's so hard for them to make it less easy to do this. Most other games have it as a feature and there's a mod that does it.

[languid ibex]

It isn't about difficulties.

It's a singleplayer game with coop capabilities, offering up additional development time for this small indie team is typically a big ask. This is especially true for multiplayer.

[echo arch]

That's fair and a determination they can make. It's just a Quality of Life suggestion for those of us who focus on the mulitplayer side of things.

It does NOT feel like a singleplayer game at all. Progression and scope of the game is way too big and slow for a single player game.

[rose swan]

Eh, in the case of children, I don’t mind at all. If they’re having fun their way, I’m not going to tread on that haha

I was just making an observation! I don’t mind if they don’t make any changes on server rules and all that.

[echo arch]

These 'children' are in college 😭

[shadow crow]

Oh that's the worst age for moral weakness 😹

[echo arch]

They don't mean to be bad. They just get tired of mining and ask themselves. "What's the harm in spawning in 4 stacks of iron". Jerks lol.

[rose swan]

Maybe this is a hot take, but if everyone on the server is cool with it and in agreement, then there’s nothing really wrong with it right? 🤔

Like yeah, surely not everyone would agree with the ‘cheating’ approach, but if they’re not in the server, their opinion isn’t all that relevant, yeah?

[sick breach]

Ah, the classic take of "you shouldn't need to add controls for cheating, just only play with people you already know". Not like a huge component of this community is based in starting brand new servers to meet new people.

[echo arch]

Yeah it's a bit weird to give a game suggestion and then get told "Your friends suck".

[rose swan]

Genuine question- I dont mean to come off as snarky, but is there a huge group of players that play the game with new people? 🤔

Not like the size of that community detracts from their feedback, but I’m just curious!

[sick breach]

In Servers-and-lfg, pretty much any post

[echo arch]

It's one of the few games that I play that if you have a good enough machine to run the server it can support a large playerbase. My friends, their friends, and friends of THOSE friends I think we had it up to like 40 folks at one point. Not all at once but coming and going.

That's not even a public server. Just word of mouth.

Granted I had a tech buddy do a bunch of backend stuff I didn't dig into to make it stable w those numbers, no clue what he did.

[arctic wharf]

I have played on a few big servers myself with complete strangers. Jiroc has done some great adventure map servers, which was lots of fun. Had made a group with at least 4 other people I had never met before I was the biggest explorer.

I could see some love for multiplayer coming along eventually (Maybe), but it's a small team and they have a game to finish first. Such additions I feel would be suitable either post 1.0 or from mods.

[wintry bobcat]

@cosmic flower That would make the recipes really cheap and thus abuseable. Something like a growth is already really powerful, doing high damage and making the opponent very weak to fire. Being able to spawn 20 of those in every fight you go into would be broken

[rose swan]

I always forgot those blobs exist

the summonable ones, I mean.

[fast void]

But... it's not a huge component.
Most "new people" actually complain about the lack of ability to find others who want to play with randoms or unknowns.
The largest component of the community is between people who play only with known friends or people who play solo.
Wanting to play with randoms and unknowns is the minority.

[languid ibex]

Yeah if it were a bigger component this server would likely be more populated

[arctic wharf]

I still mostly prefer to play either solo or with friends myself.
Doesn't mean playing with randoms on a controlled server can't be fun, just not what I default to.

Emphasis on the controlled server. Jiroc does a great job of that.
It's too sketchy otherwise.

[rose swan]

If there was a more direct competitive or PvP feature in the game, I’d be more inclined to support anti-cheating measures 🤔

[arctic wharf]

Just not really meant to be online multiplayer.
It is for sure a solo or co-op with friends style game.

Has not stopped the community before though. So many strictly single player games have some nice multiplayer mods for playing with friends haha

[brazen smelt]

Same, but on a side note, would have loved more use for chitin, was always a joy finding and smashing barnacles pushing your luck to see how many you could get before it sunk.
Carried that trusty abyssal razor all the way into mountains, and still love harpooning random things (let me spear fish)

[mellow wolf]

If the developers are ok with presenting easy cheesing solution like the aoe hammer in the dungeons, where you can spam it through the walls and kill everything without any form of challenge, then don't call Valheim: "brutal exploration and survival game" - just call it "casual exploration and survival game"

As if the new difficulty settings weren't enough to make the game easier for certain players

[wanton atlas]

it doesn't work all the time 🤔

so you are very nit-picky to be honest

a personal fix I would like to deply is enemies activly destroying doors etc more in dungeons if they can't get to the players

so the "door" trick would be void

[mellow wolf]

I am nitpicky about it, indeed. But there is a reason for that

One biome should prepare you for the next one. The easiness of crypts doesn't really prepare you the plains

Even the burial chambers in BF seem a lot more challenging than the swamp crypts. That is, unless you have the Stagbreaker - but most players probably don't have it that early in the game

[wanton atlas]

most people don't encounter a enemy, slam the door shut and then try to whack them through the door with a hammer 🤔

but I personally find it wierd interaction that the enemies won't just break the door down

[mellow wolf]

Actually a good idea to balance it out. When using a 2h hammer in the crypts, it could smash the muddy scrap piles but the iron you get from it is much less than using the pick. That way you remove the (mud pile) obstacle between you and the enemy, save time but lose resources

[languid ibex]

The developers aren't presenting cheesing solutions, the hammer's description doesn't say "Hit enemies through walls if you're nervous about taking them on!" 😅
There is just a depth to their usage, which has plenty of applications besides some dungeon enemies behind a wall(which players can find many ways to take advantage of if they choose).
Some players will just as(if not more) commonly, opt into the weapon they enjoy using, and attempt to use it often in order to level it up. It's worth mentioning that ranged enemies won't approach blockades, enemy spawners can still make any wall-cheesing endless/fruitless, and enemies in dungeons aren't exactly the most brutal challenged presented in Valheim. They're more like a puzzle you learn to navigate in different ways, and some players enjoy finding things like Hammer AoE usage, shooting arrows through manmade holes, stabbing enemies with an atgeir at safe range, or even trapping an enemy in built structures, which are all just as valid as any other approach.

[wanton atlas]

lose resources is a "feel bad interaction" tho :/

[mellow wolf]

But every game needs a balance. A pro and a con. You can't have everything - you need to choose

[wanton atlas]

smashing the mudpiles would require us adding pickaxe damage to it. basicly making the pickaxes worthless since a hammer would turn into a multi tool :/

[peak bronze]

Another solution would be to remove doors inside dungeons.

[wanton atlas]

no

but less HP and enemies actually open or destroy them would help

[mellow wolf]

Arx Fatalis and Thief had some pretty creepy and challenging crypts. Different genre of game, but still

[languid ibex]

🤷 I don't think this issue needs any help tbh, this has the energy of swings hammer Look what you're making me do!

[mellow wolf]

so, is using a nuke - it's an effective weapon but you also kill a lot of innocents, civilians and pollute the earth. I know it's a bit of whack comparison, but still

[peak bronze]

Imagine players returning to game figuring out hard way that enemies could open doors and their tactic wouldn't work anymore.

[wanton atlas]

https://tenor.com/view/skeletor-laughs-in-evil-laughing-myah-myaah-dasmemeistgut-gif-5356566587527840753

[languid ibex]

A real solution would just have enemies only detect on sight in dungeons, because they hear you and approach where their pathing says they can go.

Until the mudpiles are gone.

Once they've seen you, they can now hear you.

[wanton atlas]

unsure about the mudpile needs to be destroyable or not

I've had plenty of times a draugr with bow being a completly super dangerous being also protected from me by the pile

[languid ibex]

By the enemies? No, that wouldn't be necessary if they're sight based.

[mellow wolf]

As a passionate player of Valheim here is my honest opinion. Getting iron is boring (and you need SO much of it). On top of that, there is no challenge of going from mud pile to mud pile, especially when you have a hammer. The crypts layout(s) look the same and boring. I wish at least there was more variations to them.

[languid ibex]

Have you not discovered the majesty of wishbone farming iron?

[mellow wolf]

Wishbone you get from Bonemass, right?

[languid ibex]

Yes

[mellow wolf]

That's a bit "late"

[languid ibex]

Not at all, you'll need 10 crypts max to get your weaponry and armor from swamp, but the next biomes also utilize iron, not to mention building items.

[mellow wolf]

Here is an idea. If the devs absolutely want to keep the crypts, the OP hammers and everything, then why not introduce mining caves or something. You find an entrance in the swamp, you go through it and it loads a new instance. It could at least try to be more fun and challenging than falling asleep going through the crypts

[languid ibex]

That sounds lame to me, crypts are atmospheric and the hammer isn't an absolute solution.

[mellow wolf]

The cave could present a higher-risk, higher-reward scenario where the hammer is basically useless there but you also get more iron faster.

So: snore through turtle style it or fight through it faster

[languid ibex]

Or... wishbone farm.

All surface, much more involved.

[mellow wolf]

Again, why would I punish myself, going to the surface, being attacked by huge trees, zombies and ghosts and get less of iron, when i can just go through the crypts.

Of course the players will take a path of least resistance, unless they are masochists

[languid ibex]

Why would you punish yourself by not being able to cheese some mine you're suggesting.

You're suggesting it be more difficult with less cheese options, that's what surface mining is as well.

[mellow wolf]

Well, I would at least pick caves* if they were there

[languid ibex]

I'm not so sure you would, you're seemingly unable to resist using the hammer and then say it's the devs fault.

[mellow wolf]

Take a game like Dark Souls for instance. Do you see any difficulty options there? The game is brutal towards you. And it spawned a whole popular genre

[languid ibex]

Having the crypts still be an option is the same problem presented in a different way.

[mellow wolf]

Don't treat players like weak, helpless little puppies

[languid ibex]

Comparing Valheim to Dark Souls is already straying pretty far in the wrong direction.

[mellow wolf]

If a hammer was a mod thing, I would not use it. But it's a legit item in the game. Ofc I will craft it and feel good about it. But I will be bored with it, too

[mellow wolf]

yeah, but again, then don't call the game "brutal" when it's anything else than that

[languid ibex]

Because of dungeons? That's maybe 5% of what you'll be doing in Valheim though.

[mellow wolf]

You are lying to the players by giving them exploitable easy fixes. Don't give them that. Let them use their brain in a more balanced game

[languid ibex]

I use my brain every time I fight through a dungeon, I'm extremely aware of cheeses, but want to fight things head on. It's not as inevitable as you're presenting.

[mellow wolf]

there are also infested mines in Mistlands. I haven't played Ashlands yet, tho

[peak bronze]

Here I'm just wishing for more utility for 2h sledges than just whack it AoE attack.

[languid ibex]

Wishbone's angry cousin.

[mellow wolf]

I know that the argument for the 2h hammers could be: it gives players more choices. Well, maybe more choices is not a good thing. The best experiences I personally had in games when I had very few choices and felt utterly screwed. You give me a magical hammer that will solve half of my problems. Ofc I will use that

[languid ibex]

Then that option is for you, enjoy. 🤘

[mellow wolf]

Not in Valheim, apparently 😄 but of well, I gave my input. Nothing more I can do

[wanton atlas]

that's a completly diffrent thing. it has nothing to do with the monsters behaviour and cheeze in the dungeon

[mellow wolf]

Here is a quote from one of the best TV shows that might show this issue in a different perspective: "You see this little hole? This moth's just about to emerge. It's in there right now, struggling. It's digging its way through the thick hide of the cocoon. Now, I could help it - take my knife, gently widen the opening, and the moth would be free - but it would be too weak to survive. Struggle is nature's way of strengthening it"

[wanton atlas]

just play with the cheat sword then

it can break anything

[pulsar perch]

How much iron are you tryna get to max out a set of armour and a few weapons you only need to clear like 6-10 crypts

[wanton atlas]

that's your multitool you wish to have

[mellow wolf]

it could have something to do with monster behavior - i already said this a few times. When monsters know you are there, they make a sound. You spam the hammer until they make no sound.

[mellow wolf]

"only" lol - enough to put an elephant to sleep

[pulsar perch]

If you use root armour then it lowers to around 4-5

[mellow wolf]

I was never motivated enough to craft root armor

I used troll armor in the Swamps and it was fine

[pulsar perch]

It’s a very good armour set it gives poison resistance and bow skill

[mellow wolf]

But if someone sets you on fire..

Probably won't happen before the plains, afair

[pulsar perch]

Fire damage isn’t that common unless you do frost caves or are in plains villages

[wanton atlas]

the cultists in ice caves shoots fire

[mellow wolf]

Anyway, looking forward to 1.0 and I know it's not a perfect game. But it's pretty darn good. And hopefully Valheim 2 or Valheim 1 remake will be even better. Smarter enemies, ability to dive and dig straight down, etc.

Correction: the only thing in Valheim, that I would say is 100% perfect is the first few hours of gameplay. The meadows, hunting deer, building your first shack and that clarinet nostalgia soundtrack.

[glad cargo]

I don't think cheese needs fixing. Specially something as innocent as smashing Draugr through a wall with a sledgehammer. Those interactions are obscure and a large majority of players don't even think of stuff like that. Keeping it also rewards those players with the discovery of being able to smash enemies through walls in a pinch, which is part of the learning process of the game. Not an intended mechanic, but removing cheese doesn't make the game more fun

[mellow wolf]

The whole crypt should collapse after using the hammer once. Permadeath. This is good gameplay

[pulsar perch]

You can play permadeath

[mellow wolf]

I made a sarcastic joke

Ok, here is a random idea. How about you still can cheese with the hammer through the walls but it should be limited. Like, spamming it more than a few times should give you diminishing returns. Less and less damage and knockback.

Think of it like recoil when spraying a rifle in an FPS game

And after a certain cooldown, like 30 or more seconds, the diminishing return penalty debuff is removed and you can do it again. So, the only price you pay to be able to cheese is patience and time. I don't think it sounds that unreasonable

[languid ibex]

You've already experience the diminishing returns, it just came in the form of fun and resulted in boredom.

[spiral ice]

@mellow wolf Just an observation, but you seem to come here to complain, more than to actually suggest and discuss ideas for new content.

[arctic wharf]

I just find it interesting the hammer is being zeroed out. It's just one of many things that absolutely wrecks the balance of the game. So many ways to be super cheesy

[languid ibex]

Yeah I mentioned this the first time it was brought up. 🤭 #suggestion-discussion message

[pulsar perch]

i honestly think something like the bow or magic is 10x more OP then the hammer

[rose swan]

Agree with Joel above, I would just like to see 2H clubs get a moveset

[languid ibex]

My favorite hammer moveset of all time has to be this: https://youtu.be/7szDtjW97ao?si=doT72-3eZKU_LEI- (random but relevant )

[spiral ice]

I honestly don't think magic is overpowered. It's good, but a high-skill melee player can still out-dps mage players.

Magic is a safer way to play however (like high-bow-skill also being less risky).

[arctic wharf]

That troll staff... is such easy destruction. The chaos it can cause

Personally I would not mind if hammers just didn't work inside dungeons. Just throw the message "It's too cramped to use this here", or something along those lines 👀
At least preserve dungeons as the space where true challenges are presented.

[mellow wolf]

How many specific ideas haven't I suggested already, that have been dismissed? You just have to go back and read them

Complaining would be whining without purpose, which I don't think I have been doing. I have been really patient.

And no, imo, I don't think that the focus should only be on the new content.

[glad cargo]

What for? Again, you're all discussing this as if every single player used the Sledgehammer to hit enemies through walls. Zero'ing out a single weapon as "problematic" (on something really trivial like hitting enemies through walls in 2 specific dungeons) and trying to "fix" it will just make the game worse for everyone. Something that's actually worse is, for example, killing Moder by digging out a trench and planting a Bonfire underneath her Altar. That's problematic cheese. But cheese is an inherent part of games and discovering new and safe strategies to deal with difficult situations in a pinch is always welcome. If cheese was seen as problematic in every gaming space you wouldn't have such a large speedrunning scene across gaming

And again, we're talking about fixing cheese in a game with readily available console commands. What's hitting draugr through walls with a Sledge to using "spawn SpearSplitnir" to fight Eikthyr?

[mellow wolf]

No game should ever allow you to AoE hit anything through the walls. Especially without any penalty or consequence. And especially if the enemy can't fight back. If you don't see the problem in this, then it is seriously you that has a problem.

[glad cargo]

It's not intended, and I promise to you that most players don't even think about it. And again, if one is in a pinch and figures out that you can hit enemies through a wall with the Sledge, why forbid them from doing with it artificial and out-of-place solutions like "the space is too cramped to use this very specific weapon" or "diminishing returns"? If people wanna skip combat or make it easier they can also use console commands or play in Casual mode

[mellow wolf]

Something that's actually worse is, for example, killing Moder by digging out a trench and planting a Bonfire underneath her Altar. <-- Partially agree, but at least you have to spend some time digging, building and preparing for that. With the hammer you just build it and you are basically immune in the dungeons

Ok let's try and reverse roles for a moment. Imagine you had to fight a boss. That boss spawns a wall around you, locking you in and killing you from the other side. How would that feel to you?

[glad cargo]

Oh, how much of a penalty! You have to dig a trench! What a sacrifice. Gathering the 27 tons of Iron needed for the Iron Sledge is arguably harder and more time consuming than building a trench.

And, considering, where do you stop? Where do you draw the line on what "cheese" is? Is making a tower with the Hoe to snipe enemies from high up also cheese? Are we gonna prevent Hoe use while an enemy is targetting you? Are we making Bonfires not do damage to enemies? The focus should be fun, and forcibly removing a mechanic that a player discovered, even if unintentional, doesn't make the game more fun

[arctic wharf]

It would not be the only one with such a limit. 👀

I also don't see it as making the game worse...
Feels to me like you are a hammer abuser enjoyer.

It's just a bit of balance.

[mellow wolf]

"Gathering the 27 tons of Iron" <-- not if you just build a Stagbreaker

[glad cargo]

Dude, it's a PVE game, you don't have to think about how much fun the Draugr is having. If the boss locked you in impassable walls and hit you through the wall it would suck, of course, but we're talking about player experience here, not Draugr experience

[mellow wolf]

I know that. And I play Valheim solo for the PVE aspect of it

[glad cargo]

Tbh, I tried playing with the Sledgehammers in this playthrough, but they're insanely inconsistent. The windup is long as hell and they're only safe in dungeons. Everywhere else, one wrong slam and you lost half your health.

[mellow wolf]

Draurgh is not controlled by another player and it has nothing to do with a subject. It was just a hypothesis