suggestion-discussion

[bitter totem]

a quick google search shows they did have ship-to-ship combat

[granite geyser]

Ah, the classic "it's fantasy so it makes sense to add literally anything lol" argument.

Yeah, that has never worked, and will never work either

[arctic wharf]

sure, but it is so very far out there for valheim... and thus most don't really like it as a possible addition for THIS game. Thus, many many downvotes.

[foggy axle]

everything is a very very very long list of things, not one suggestion

[wanton atlas]

?

[granite geyser]

That just means most people are bad people and they should only agree to every idea

[bitter totem]

Skiðblaðnir was given the ability to fly (First Ship in Norse Mythology), so why can we NOT have airborne ships again???

[foggy axle]

can't do everything is non answer. Ofcourse it's not possible to do everything. Doesn't mean ideas should not be voiced because "can't do everyhing" no one asked that

[granite geyser]

Because it would make everything in the game completely worthless.

[bitter totem]

how so

[arctic wharf]

It's just a phrase used in game design, to basically not cator to everyone which would cause no one to be happy from everything being half baked and instead keep to your vision and niche so that you make the core audience exceptionally happy.

It does not really mean everything in the whole world, obv

[peak bronze]

Gotta ask now that you are here, if you want to voice any opinion. What do you think of this suggestion about poison damage rework? There was some talk about it earlier. #suggestions message

[granite geyser]

Combat? lol just fly

Exploration? again, fly

Danger in any way, shape, or form? fly lol

[bitter totem]

I mean we already have dev commands for those? lol

[wanton atlas]

sure. ideas are ideas. and not forced to be added.
but you (as in everyone who does suggestions) must understand that even if something is popular OR unpopular in #suggestions
IF we like it, we will add it nontheless

[wanton atlas]

yeah. let me remove them for 1.0 launch 😉

[granite geyser]

You mean... the things that are not part of the INTENDED WAY of playing?

[foggy axle]

why wounn't I or anyone understand that?

[granite geyser]

I can't even... lol

[wanton atlas]

alot of people claim "it's a popular suggestion, so it have to be added to the game"

[bitter totem]

and there could be ways to mitigate all of what u said as well, by only making it so the ship can fly in Deep North, make it so if u were recently attacked or hit something u can't fly the ship away obviously?? its not just a flying ship that u can fly anywhere lol

[wanton atlas]

I actually got no real opinion on such a re-work.
the problem tho is that monsters "freezes" when you leave the area. so that might be an issue

[hexed jewel]

I just don't think flying ships or mounts have a place in their game vision bro

[granite geyser]

They could also spare doing any of that balance by simply... not adding it

And use that saved time into... anything else

[foggy axle]

well that's just like their opinion, and they even might get upset (their right as fans) but I'm sure they understand that developers decide (even if they get sad about it, again their right as "fans")

[bitter totem]

this game is based off norse mythology, there is a flying boat in NM... 🤷

[wanton atlas]

NM?

[bitter totem]

norse myth

[wanton atlas]

ok. I officially announce my exit of this channel. my head can't take more tonight

[hexed jewel]

yeah but not EVERYTHING that's in Norse mythology NECESSARILY making it in, at a certain point it does in fact boil down to "could do, won't--think more efficient use of time spent elsewhere"

[arctic wharf]

loosely inspired by norse mythology... at best

[bitter totem]

we have a boat that can travel on boiling hot water that burns ships and you can't make a boat that only flys in 1 biome with restrictions??

[hexed jewel]

lol @wanton atlas cannot escape our madness

[peak bronze]

Okay, thanks for your insight! Surely some rework could be good for poison being better.

[arctic wharf]

they COULD make anything they wanted. And if they want to, they will. If they don't want to, than they won't

Has nothing to do with the opinions of the other people who frequent these discord channels though, and the votes which generally dislike such ideas. 🫡

[peak bronze]

The only form of flying I accept in this game is falling with style (=feather cape + catapult)

[stark furnace]

what about vulture flying or squito or drake flying oh and gjalls how could i forget!

[peak bronze]

Those are just funny occasions.

[arctic wharf]

ofc, a silly happenstance of game mechanics.

[foggy axle]

They can do anything they want. The only thing needed is for the devs to reach the conclusion that it would be a great thing to add to the game

[stiff stag]

Which in this case they have clearly decided it doesn't belong, and you or others pestering them isn't going to change their minds on the matter. Comes off as very childish if you refuse to take no for an answer.

[granite geyser]

It's unbelievable that your argument is comparing a ship whose main trait is SAILING NORMALLY through boiling waters and a ship that LITERALLY FLIES and makes any other form of transportation...

[foggy axle]

sometimes people change their minds when presented with new data (or new arguments)

[arctic wharf]

I won't take no as an answer for skills needing a rework
but I m not about to be a real loser by constantly pushing and nagging for it. In the end, none of the chat here really changes much if anything about what shots the team calls in the end.
and that is fine.

Am more happy to be able to have voiced my opinion ofc, and had "mostly" friendly chats here.

[peak bronze]

Btw also Wraith flying.

[granite geyser]

Exactly, and they have reached the conclusion that flying not happening and current megingjord situation are working as intended.

But you seemed to have missed that part and continue going "but"

[languid ibex]

We have a portal that moves you through the world but we can't have a portal that portals you to every boss? tableflip

[stark furnace]

hmm never tried that one, is bat flying theoretically possible?

[lofty wave]

I’ve gone pretty far with a volture

[languid ibex]

This discussion sincerely went no where 😦 it's really not that deep, all input is welcome, just as all opinons are in the discussion channel.

[foggy axle]

Well you're completly wrong. I understand current situation and I understand current state of things. I'm just adding to that discussion.

[granite geyser]

Which new data? You've only said "but the people have spoken" as if representing every single player in the community.

And you're being delusional if you think you (and specifically you) will change their minds when 100000 others have done the EXACT SAME arguments you did before

[peak bronze]

Might be, just that they don't spawn outside the caves normally except during the raid.

Wraith is fun as it just goes up and up and up like a lift.

[foggy axle]

Great, anything else to say ? I'd like to discuss game mechanicsm .. .the pshychology forum is somewhere else

[granite geyser]

You are now contradicting yourself...

At this point "drown kicking" is happening. The moment when someone runs out of arguments (or whatever they were trying to convince others to do/think but kept failing) and just throws the very first thing they think... even if it doesn't make any sense.

[languid ibex]

Rianu loves discussing game mechanics to be fair, the point you're making is just far removed from that.

[arctic wharf]

I mean, yeah. That's true.

Seen a little nay-saying here or there, but mostly true. And he has done well to keep the chat mostly objective, even if a bit demeaning sometimes.
Rianu is cool in my book, as are most others here.

Am sorry that many of us have rubbed you the wrong way skadush.
Just have to accept that a lot of us have opposing opinions of the one suggestion you had made with humility, and move forward. Promise we are not out to get you, and voting fairly with unbiased opinions. (Most of us)

[foggy axle]

This is the problem of every game discord ever. No matter what quality of life suggestions are made, that person is ganked on: Nah, you could do this instead. Or No it's not hard at all, or I like it as it is "it provides choice". But somehow when someone proposes something in the lines of "make the game harder in this way" ... then a bunch of people imediatly jump to "yeah, that would be awesome" and attack naysayers. It's just a bunch on nonsense elitism meant to virtue signal how awesome gamers they are, that kills any kind of discussion everywhere

[languid ibex]

At it's core, we've mostly been providing reasonable alternatives to the issues you've presented, and they do work otherwise progression would be massively stunted across the board. The testers ensure this doesn't happen for each biome. There's Troll Endurance mead to increase weight, utilizing the Wisplight to create Wisp Torch paths, using a hoe & cart to haul any heavy goods, and even just utilizing the Mistwalker sword alongside Megingjord. All seem perfectly viable to myself, and seeing as this point has been raised well before Mistlands even released, I would say it just required a bit of creative problem solving personally.

[hearty finch]

It's just a bunch on nonsense elitism meant to virtue signal how awesome gamers they are
lmao kinda based

[foggy axle]

I already know of every possible alternative. I've been playing for the 8th time, and I'm 600h+ ... you're only missing the point

[arctic wharf]

You have not been around long enough sadly to see how some topics even the devs don't agree with actually get a lot of positive agreement from the community here...
Cough... Skills rework.... cough

We don't shoot down all quality-of-life suggestions. Plenty get tons of upvotes.

[hearty finch]

i think we need to know who the better player is, skadush or omni?

[languid ibex]

The point is you're trying to see where you're going while freely gathering as you would in other biomes correct?

[arctic wharf]

Sigh... barney the troll back to stir the pot some more 🤷‍♂️

[hexed jewel]

lolololololololol

[languid ibex]

Everyone's experience is totally unique and their opinions are valid! 🫣

[foggy axle]

No, each biome needs to feel like it has different challenges I get that, and they should feel distinct. But this feels like charms in D2 .. they are good for your char power and terrible for inventory management. Overall a very bad game mechanic

[hearty finch]

agreed

[languid ibex]

Right, but the mechanic itself is meant to be challenging, and not cater to you as other survival games might. The degree of ease comes in the form of stack sizes, buffs from meads, comfort, forsaken powers, etc. If everything can be utilized at once that'd only further complicate inventory space restrictions, as well as dull the level of engagement the player feels when dealing with difficult environments. A good example of how unrelenting the developers are with this logic is the constant rain in the Swamp.

[foggy axle]

The mechanic where later in the game you have to make 3x the trips to carry resources in a survival game that makes you gather resources, is in no whay a challenge (walking is not a challenge, in any of the biomes earlier or later ones). This is simply inverse character progression. Your character gets worse (and no the game doesn''t get harder, because more tedious doesn't mean hard)

[languid ibex]

Given the amount of suggestions surrounding clearing mist, or the possible progression of a weight increasing mead, this could possibly become easier with future content, but in my opinion changing how accessories function as a whole isn't the answer to that problem.

Walking can be made far more interesting with the jump increase mead and the feather fall cape, traversal does feel unique when you combine that alongside the movement speed increases from set bonuses or mead. This is all available to you in the Mistlands, so while it may not be a challenge, it certainly offers some unique gameplay!

[rose swan]

Stepped away to make some fried chicken and 150 messages later 😅

[granite geyser]

You're not missing anything relevant anyway other than another case of "I dislike this, you disagree with me? toxic community smh"

[foggy axle]

don't take it personally, you're not unique in this, you're merelly part of the pattern

[wanton atlas]

guess why I give up on this channel

[granite geyser]

This again but with different words

[rose swan]

And we had just gotten you back too 🥲

[wanton atlas]

if people can't be nice to each other.
there is a role that I will apply on them

and that role completly locks them out of this channel and also the suggestions one

[stiff stag]

#suggestions message I personally like the black and purple color scheme that's already being used. Also don't think it's worthwhile suggesting the color be changed since it could just as easily be suggested to be any other color as well (like blue, orange, etc.). A solution that could work out for everyone though could be a visual setting where people can customize the color schemes of starred enemies, but not likely to see something like that happen.

[summer canopy]

I've seen, In the past few days, hordes and hordes of suggestions that go something along the lines of 'add blimps' or 'dvegr/draugr blimp raids' anyone know why this is happening?

[rose swan]

Was going to reply to some of the conversation above, but I think it would just be stirring the pot 🤔

So instead, I’ll say this. A lot of us here collaborate and come up with some cool ideas. No one here agrees on every single item; not sure who the ‘elites’ are, I prefer the term regulars- but even us regulars disagree in good faith most of the time. Disagreements lead to progress in my experience. Most of the most well-received suggestions are actually collaborative efforts that have been discussed and refined in this very channel 🙂

let’s just try and keep in mind that disagreements are the spark of conversations. I’ve had ideas that have been absolutely shot down, and my feelings have never been hurt. And at the end of the day, 99.9% of the discussions are suggestions are just for fun, and likely won’t see implementation- and that’s ok! 👌 A lot of folk simply enjoy brainstorming and conversing with other players who enjoy the game.

If anyone feels like I’m picking on them, I can absolutely assure you that is not the case 😅

Don’t take things personally, come here to have a good time, enjoy the conversations; I think that’s key 🔑

But yeah, I’m gonna go and enjoy my chicken Parmesan now

[bitter totem]

yeah that ♻️ emoji is for sure useless lmao

[arctic wharf]

Has not been used a lot letaly

[mellow crater]

#suggestions message The one from Blobycake we worked on days ago got a certain success :)

the 14 are a good indicator I think

[umbral wyvern]

I think you should be able to customise the key bind for the dodge rolle

[peak bronze]

Who can blame us? We want to read more about the words of Ulf.

[wary nebula]

@rej i like the flying ship idea but those constraints dont seem right especially when there is already a flying ship in the game.. the Gjall! it just has to be tamed and attached which would be fun and give some use to the harpoon. I would put an altitude limit in though as gjall aren't designed for high altitude! Of course a this would only work in a biome that utilized high altitude as i mean you shouldnt be able to get everywhere even in a flying boat.

[lofty wave]

Flying transport would make most combat completely ignorable

[wary nebula]

how so?

the way i see it the deep north is the last biome, if you get the flying ship part way through that or near the end it seems very logical

[lofty wave]

Because most enemies won’t be able to hit you up there

[wary nebula]

those enemies will be trivial anyway

of course it would work best if the deep north featured structures at high altitude where the gjall blimp could help but not completely overcome. One thing i think the devs miss in the game is that at some point the activity your doing will fatigue you as the challenge ramps up. The mist of the mistlands fatigues you, the endless spawns of the ashlands fatigues you. Both of these challenges should have way more tools to address those things. I feel they overlook that and as a result these biomes may not be as well received as they should be even though they have way more content that previous biomes.

[peak bronze]

Afaik there will be moments of peace but also dangerous encounters to be expected in DN. It probably will not be as war oriented place as Ashlands.

[wary nebula]

it wont matter.

the mist does the same thing

[crimson dock]

This idea strays too far from the game, yeah it seems cool in theory and would probably be fun but it sounds more like a mod than a feature that fits with the rest of the game

[peak bronze]

Well, that depends on the player. Mistlands differs from other biomes in how it is approached: with caution as you have limited sight, hearing and going slower pace become more important.

[wanton atlas]

how would you find all the cool stuff on the ground we add in deep north?
should the entire biome be flying monsters?
else you can just stand on your airship, and hose everything with ranged weapons and magic

[wary nebula]

well you wouldnt get the airship until near the end when youve done all that already and there would be content thats higher than the gjall can fly soo.. when your fatigued with doing the former you get this fun way to avoid some of that.

[wanton atlas]

it's still so OP it's not even fun

the entire game would have to be around flying airships for it to make any kind of sence

[wary nebula]

exact same thing in mistlands.. first mistland is awesome.. after a while the mist gets to you and you dont care for it anymore but theres still no way to clear the mist permanently

[wanton atlas]

or "hey, I will just fly around all previous biomes at a WW2 bomber plane nuking everything from air"

[lofty wave]

Use wisp torches

[wanton atlas]

the mist in mistlands is there because of the mist is there.
not because the queen produce it

[wary nebula]

the point is that your not putting in enough anti mechanic fatigue tools in for when the initial efffect wears off.

that why some players dont like mistlands and ashlands even though they are much better content han other biomes.

[lofty wave]

There will always be some players that don’t like something

[wary nebula]

if you dont get it, you dont get it.

[peak bronze]

Well, devs have already rejected the idea so it's pointless to argue it further.

[granite geyser]

It's hilarious how people use "then just add content in the sky so it's not completely empty and remains dangerous. Easy"

Oh yeah sure, let's just add 1000 more work than the one they already have because they added literally ONLY ONE single feature. Yeah, so easy.

A work the team can spare by simply not adding it.

I swear people are allergic to thinking before speaking

[crimson dock]

The game already has anti fatigue mechanics that are developed all the way from the beginning of the game, the rested bonus, which requires you to have to go back to base or take a short break and gives you the chance to go commit to other projects and tasks rather than doing the same thing over and over until it’s no longer fun

the game gives you all the tools available to have fun in it, it is up to the player to use these tools

[peak bronze]

Quite well said.

[wary nebula]

i feel they do not, especially in the ashlands.

[peak bronze]

And, if difficulty is too high it is possible to lower it from world modifiers.

[crimson dock]

What is it you don’t find fun about the Ashland’s?

I find by far the least fun section is having to pilot your ship around the spires while being constantly pestered by voutures and bonemaws spawning but that is a very small section of gameplay in the Ashland’s

[wary nebula]

i actually find that part fun and well done

[quartz totem]

The only "not fun" part of Ashlands is that, building around Fortress should not be a thing (I've never actually **sieged **a fortress). Else, even now I like the rush of sprinting for my life at some parts. xD

[wanton atlas]

many ideas don't really fit valheim either.
diving or underwater biome = yes, that's subnautica
pirate ships = yes, that's sea of thieves or assassins creed black flag
add slaves = yes, that's conan exiles
add sky kingdom = yes, that's just other 100+ flying games. flying in valheim is wonky start with. adding a OP thing like flying constantly would be so over powered, it's not even funny

[peak bronze]

I actually find that more fun now. Sure, Drakkar could be easier to manouver but the storm effect and music track make it quite epic.

That epicness was unexpected when I first time sailed there during PTB.

[quartz totem]

Bonemaw is so easy to deal with... same for Vultures. And It is true that maneuvering the Ship is annoying at certain regions

[peak bronze]

The tensity of the spires was changed rather quickly.

[granite geyser]

What I said about sky biome/content can also be reworded so it works for underwater content.

Diving mechanics is one single feature and just adding it would be like asking to add underwater content so it makes sense beyond grabbing sunken stuff. That's 10000 more work for no reason at all

And slaves don't fit here, not only because of the "automation would ruin the game" part, but also because it's meant to be a family friendly game. Adding slaves is just wrong. It fits Conan because that's what Conan is, but not valheim

I was about to say it "works" in Conan but that would be a lie, I have read that the AI in that game is 100 more advanced than valheim's and is STILL broken af. Imagine the pathfinding alone in valheim with 100 NPCs in a single base. And that's without mentioning the performance

[hearty finch]

what about just diving to pick up items on the shore?

vikings can dive, you can already go below water in noclip mode, i think it would make sense to have a "hold X to dive"

and then u just consume stamina like u would if u swim in any other direction, maybe a bit more since u're holding ur breath

not sayuing u have to change the scene to render what's underneath. just ur character goes down and thats it

[wanton atlas]

because movements would probably be kinda wonky. and also, if you can dive, that means we have to put things under the water for the player to experience something that isn't just a empty yellow dessert

[hearty finch]

no man im saying just go down. thats it. the camera stays above water

[wanton atlas]

then you wouldn't be able to see your character to much 😦

I mean, what I could see is we adjusting how fast you bounce up if the player goes under the water. atm you basicly is forced up back onto the water layer.
making it harder than it could be to get your stuff back

[rose swan]

Like in Zelda OoT? I feel like that would be a nice comparison 🤔

[slate spire]

I was always in this camp until this playthrough. They just don’t do enough. It got to the point that I can’t clear most mist of a certain height and it ruins any sight lines for builds. And then having those blue dots glowing everywhere is also annoying. It limits creativity and design, which I would argue are cornerstones of this game.

I’m even down with the most pushing in those barriers at certain times of the day. But gaining access to an asset that’s already in the game would just be really really nice.

[rose swan]

#suggestions message This would be nice, maybe a knife chopping a board sound effect?

[crimson dock]

Yo how do I reply to messages like that where you have a blue hyperlink with a > into a chat bubble?

[rose swan]

I copy the link of the message, post it in a reply, then wrote my message after it 😁

[crimson dock]

#suggestions message like this?

ahhhhhhh I see now thank you

[slate spire]

Thank you for asking lol I couldn’t figure it out

[crimson dock]

Haha it’s been bugging me for a few months now I usually just forward the message

[hearty finch]

ya i guess we're misunderstanding each other. i just want the QoL of picking up items, not advocating for viking subnautica

[hearty finch]

why not just do what i said and hold X to go down in height (if swimming)

you can already do that in noclip

and then as you release X you bounce up again

[slate spire]

For underwater, I totally agree we don’t need an underwater biome. It doesn’t fit the game.

But I’m watching you logic jump “if diving underwater, then new content required” (I’m sure some people have asked for it and they’re wrong.) but the problem that would be great to solve is the annoyance of losing items that I can still see, because I can’t simply reach them. (It’s a frustrating way to lose items, especially when a boat breaks while ur gone.)

My suggestion list would be an extension of reach while swimming, or for items that are underwater.

OR minor add: allow. Me to disassemble a boat like other items. (I feel like the inability to do so is because of PVP, and you could just limit the deconstruction to the creator of the boat.)

OR big add: a dive animation for items you click underwater, and you consume stamina at an insane rate to dive down and try to reach items. This would only be possible while swimming. And then you come back up right where you were.

[hearty finch]

ya

[crimson dock]

Counter argument: the player should face the consequences of leaving items on the boat that can fall to the bottom of the ocean

[hearty finch]

i just wanna pick up stuff on the shore

ah yea maybe thats a problem actually

[crimson dock]

Are you not able to with a plank at height and diving in? That usually does the trick me

[hearty finch]

yea but its a ridiculous task

idk how deep the ocean is ingame but maybe just make diving consume a fuckload of stamina, so u cant effectively dive in deep ocean

so that way its only really usable to pick up stuff @ shore

[slate spire]

Good morning btw, took me a minute to catch up on the flying boat drama.

For the record, I downvoted it because it’s a game breaking mechanic at the end of a biome we don’t have released yet based on an obscure boat from mythology I’m pretty familiar with. (I had to google to find out about it) I’m shocked to see someone suggesting such a niche request in an area we don’t even understand.

But at the end of the day getting down voted in the ideas chat isn’t the end of the world. It probably means you need to readjust your sales pitch.

[hearty finch]

gm

[crimson dock]

This flying boat is in god of war ragnarok tbh but it only really serves its purpose in that game as a cool cutscene

[peak bronze]

That I would be on board with. Making it easier to get those sunken materials on coasts but it couldn't be used too long due to higher stamina usage.

[slate spire]

“Punish these sinners!!! lol”
jk

The loss for a sailing boat getting destroyed is still there. The loss for keeping stuff off shore is possible.

We’re asking for qol change for an annoyance that doesn’t seem intentional. It’s punishing me for keeping my boat away from the shore because if I park it too close it will damage and crash… but I’ll be able to get my stuff… but I’m not allowed to disassemble it without attacking it… and if I do attack it, there’s still a chance the nails will sink below where I can grab and I can’t remake the boat… that’s not punishing for bad behavior, it’s poor design.

[crimson dock]

Repairing the boat is free, it does seem intentional especially with certain items floating but who knows

[wanton atlas]

if we don't push the camera under the waterline, that would help.
but a diving mechanic or "sinking" would still require alot of work compared to just adjusting the "upwards pushing force"

[wary nebula]

just make magnetic fishing bait so people can get their nails back. No need for underwater biome then.

[slate spire]

#suggestions message

I agree so much. I said this too with Hildir clothes. I wish the item was listed once, and you purchased the color you wanted like when you set a shield design

[lofty wave]

Or just let players lose their nails

[wanton atlas]

just stand next to the mast when you destroy a boat and auto-grab the nails 🤔

[lofty wave]

That’s what I do, or I make a diving ladder

[slate spire]

What about coding for the swimming state, that extends your reach of items. IF swimming, THEN reach extended to X meters. No animation. Could limit to items below water line. Could be released and never tell anyone so people still think they’re being punished!! Wins all around lol

[slate spire]

lol 🤦 I have always stood outside the boat, because I’ve already moved the stuff off and walk back up to the boat. And standing on the thing I’m breaking is not logical to my reality brain lololollll changing tactics immediately

[wanton atlas]

the items spawns dead center on any object when it is destroyed 😇

[slate spire]

#suggestions message
@granite geyser can you explain the chop situation? I don’t understand what the issue is

[peak bronze]

Jotun Bane is a Mistlands tier axe that deals partial poison damage and poison damage is in quite bad state currently because of how it works, so many people skip it. So if it had higher chop power than all other axes in game it would be the best tool for woodcutting.

[rose swan]

Wonder how difficult it would be to give it additional damage against giant-sized creatures 🤔

[arctic wharf]

This is what I had in mind for a much more basic diving mechanic. Not that the camera stays above the surface and it is mostly just a vertical down-and-up dive, with the ability to shift direction a little. 🫡
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fxv78rE8xQk

At least, as far as keeping it basic. Just good enough to retrieve items somewhat under the water and that's it. (Funny enough, just like in this clip)

[slate spire]

Okay so the suggestion is upping it beyond its already higher increment so it’s undisputedly better than previous.

I kind of assumed it would become more important in the deep north. Especially if we see jotuns there. Hoping the name is honored. Could be cool to have it do extra damage to trolls and golems too.

[rose swan]

Was just playing OoT last night actually, about to wrap up the spirit temple!

But yeah, if we see some sort of method of diving, this is what I envisioned as well. Maybe higher swimming lets you dive a little deeper? But typical I’d imagine only being able to dive a couple meters, not enough to retrieve items (scales, trophies, etc) from the deep parts of the ocean- this way serpent hunting still exists in its traditional way.

I’m impartial to the idea of diving though, don’t really mind one way or the other

[arctic wharf]

I love the idea of swimming skill letting you dive deeper as well!
Should let it give swimming XP too then.

but yeah, I am also super impartial to the idea of diving 😂

[peak bronze]

I think diving for only getting some items back on coast water would be good addition, but with much higher stamina usage so it couldn't be used to dive too deep without repercussions.

[languid ibex]

This sounds the least intrusive, just increase the pickup radius on the Y axis only, so swimming over objects that are sunken would pick them up. I would imagine that diving itself could provide unintentional movement that would need to be accounted for with enemy AI or attacking patterns.

[mellow crater]

Actually easy I believe (and I am following computer sciences, I know what I am saying) : you need either to tag the creature with a “is_giant” boolean variable or test for the height of the creature, and test for each damages : if True and the damage comes from Jotunn Bane, then damages are increased.

[granite geyser]

Maybe not so much. But it is an interesting idea.

They would have to label creatures based on size with trolls, golems, abominations, etc being recognized in-game as giants while other creatures are of different size.

Could be as simple as making them go from Size 0-3/4/5, like star levels

They might need to do that for every single creature tho. Or maybe, only when it's relevant.

If jotun bane had bonus dmg vs Size +3, then just label said creatures as such and ignore the rest

They could even expand that for other weapons.

Imagine huntsman bow having bonus damage or effects (e. g better resource yield) against small creatures (Size 0)

TooMuchDogg you just cooked without noticing

[lofty wave]

Why would the huntsman bow need buffing?

[granite geyser]

Because it's the jotun bane of swamps. Why would you craft it and spend a valuable material when there's a direct, vastly superior upgrade right after? Not mentioning that is a bow you get in a biome where piercing is essentially useless

[peak bronze]

Huntsman bow has hidden effect tho. It produces the least amount of noise on hit of all bows in game, which makes it good for sniping enemies and not alerting the whole groups.

[rose swan]

That would be really interesting, creatures having a size tag 🤔 could potentially have an effect on a handful of different things.

Huntsman bow’s hidden effect is that it looks badass

[granite geyser]

Definitely still not worth spending 20 iron that could be used for literally anything else...

[peak bronze]

I usually mine enough so I can craft one. I'm not a huge fan of glowing of Draugr Fang.

[lofty wave]

I always make huntsman bow and skip draugr fang

[rose swan]

I thought I was the only one 👀 I just hate the glow of the draugr fang, that’s the only reason I don’t use it lol

[lofty wave]

My bow skill is low so I need the best bow I can get before fighting drakes, but it’s good enough for gjalls so I don’t need to upgrade again

[peak bronze]

Stamina usage is also lower than in Draugr Fang, so it's a bit more convenient with less skill lvl.

[wanton atlas]

Yeah. keeping it simple for sure is the best aproach

[granite geyser]

That is an option yes...

If it weren't because draugr fang costs silver (much easily acquired than iron) and is fairly cheap to upgrade iirc

[wanton atlas]

Huntsman bow is great since it uses so little stamina to pull the string

[peak bronze]

Huntsman bow is huge upgrade from Finewood bow as Huntsman has straight arc while Finewood can still shoot inaccurately sometimes.

[gloomy monolith]

I've gotten so used to the arch that i automatically compensate for it. does huntsman shoot perfectly straight like the crossbows? ive never used it.

[peak bronze]

None of any bows shoot as straight as crossbows, they always have the arc which should be noted when shooting from long range. But Huntsman bow falls a bit shorter than Draugr Fang.

[inner urchin]

I never for some reason craft the huntsman bow. I just feel like finebow is fine on most playthroughs and draugr fang is pretty good on seeker enemies.

Maybe it's because is spare iron.

[peak bronze]

Of course it's fine.

I used to skip Huntsman bow much earlier when I had much less playtime, but one time I tried and I started to like it because of the silent effect. After that I usually crafted it and skipped Draugr Fang since.

[crimson dock]

Ima need to try the huntsman on my next playthrough I always skip it due to iron cost

[inner urchin]

Though what's the opinion of spinesnap and ash fang bows?

I feel like spinesnap is underrated since it requires only 15 eitr and upgrading it costs no eitr (unlike other mistlands weapons). Plus it's effective against Ashland.

Ashfang though well it could be good with lolite and Jade due to firing speed.

[crimson dock]

After mistlands I went to crossbows and never went back lol but from what I heard the spine snap is way too stamina intensive

[peak bronze]

Spinesnap is super cheap and extra spirit damage is good in Ashlands. However, stamina usage of it is very noticeable compared to Draugr Fang. But Ashlands bows have same stamina usage too.

Fortunately we have means to lower stamina usage for drawing bow in Ashlands.

Root Fang and Storm Fang are super. Blood fang is also good if you utilise your missing HP for attacks.

[rose swan]

I like the unenchanted ash bow, since it’s the first bow after huntsman that doesn’t have a magical glow

[slate spire]

Don’t they already have a designation that makes them the same? Golems and trolls won’t fight I thought. Or is the designation that the golem is forest?

[slate spire]

I loved it this playthrough but you wanna stay in stealth mode when you shoot. Then you drop right back into stealth mode after the shot.

[rose swan]

Mobs have a tag that dictates their faction; golems and trolls belong to the forest faction, which is why they don’t attack each other, yep!

We were discussing the potential of an additional tag, ‘size’ that could have additional effects; such as the damage of Jotun Bane or potentially others weapons/arrows.

Hope that makes sense 😅

[peak bronze]

Sniping Fulings in camp with Huntsman bow is quite fun.

[arctic wharf]

Not exactly for the devs trying to tackle VR, but valheim VR mod? would be cool indeed for the VR lovers.

[barren oasis]

I think there's already a VR mod

[arctic wharf]

Well, there ye go then

[snow quartz]

At some point i didnt upgrade Ashlands weapons any longer because of the cleaner looks. I'm a simple guy that doesnt like design overload. The art direction took a weird turn starting at artisan tables / draugr fang and so on.

[bitter totem]

it is a fantasy game, there would be fantasy glowing weapons lol

[autumn idol]

I'm personally fine with the glow of the Draugr Fang and Spinesnap since the colors feel more subdued to me, but the Ashlands gem weapons are a bit much IMO

[mellow crater]

It is one thing I like, this progressive transformation from “normal viking” to fantasy lord

You start as a hunter, then become a king, then discover magic and become a fantasy master

And wielding your Ashland tier weapon, you can feel how far you have gone. Remember when the point of your arrow was made of flint ?

[slate spire]

Could it be as simple as a “Jotun” tag added to creatures? And we can debate the merit of it being in the elder.

If it was size based it could get messy with the Morgen, Serpents, and abomination being large. But I don’t feel worthy of the giant descriptor

[rose swan]

Maybe 🤔 feel like it would be odd having a tag for enemies that is exclusively for one weapon. To be honest, I haven’t really put a lot of thought behind the concept haha

Just spitballing here, bear with me…

Small (maybe): greylings, boar, hares
Medium/regular sized: greydwarves, skeleton, Fulings
Large: GD brutes, Fuling berserker, Asksvin
Giant: Trolls, serpents, gjalls, morg/valk

something like that? Jotun bane does x1.25 for large creatures, x1.50 for giant. Just as an example.

[bitter totem]

what if moder didn't hard lock a bunch of stuff 🤔

[slate spire]

So Jotun means giant like the race of beings. Giants blood. Something being big wouldn’t make it a Jotun. And I read that jotuns/giants may be a big deal (ha!) in deep north. (Unconfirmed) And the Jotun remains in the mistlands would be an example. But I don’t think a “Jotun bane” item should be stronger on serpents and Valkyrie’s.

[rose swan]

Oh yeah 100%- didn’t me to imply that Jotun = large, I just think opening up the weapon up to dealing more damage to large creatures was an interesting perspective 😅

[rose swan]

Moder effectively locks you out of the blast furnace and windmill, right? 🤔

[stark furnace]

All we needed was Ashlands pots to drop blackmetal and we were home free

[rose swan]

What if dwarven outposts had a small chance of having a blast furnace? The mining sites, rather?

[stark furnace]

Would be cool don’t see IG doing that

[slate spire]

But the advantage on Jotun creatures (especially if featured in deep north) could help decide to make it and carry it over the black metal axe.

[rose swan]

OH hey, (shameless suggestion plug) #suggestions message hostile Dvergr camps could have blast furnaces. Limit it to three per world so they’re pretty rare.

But yeah, don’t see it happening 😅 just a thought!

Heck, throw it in a secret room even

[bitter totem]

out of alot of things

[stark furnace]

You have my sword (vote)

[rose swan]

Oh right, and stone ovens too? Am I missing something? I don’t progression skip, so I don’t pay attention to what I’m missing out on LOL

Oh right, there’s crafting at the artisan tables too- so I guess springs?

[bitter totem]

spinning wheels, ovens, furnaces, windmills, artisan table

[rose swan]

Ahh the spinning wheel, that’s a big one. Good point.

[bitter totem]

any mistlands wep besides krom, crossbow, and carapace spear, no mistland armor or ashland armor/wep, no good food past mountain tier

[slate spire]

I think back filling items from other biomes is great level design. Example: the frost caves dropping iron and bronze and leather scraps. 👨‍🍳 😘
The ancient armor giving iron and copper. 👨‍🍳 😘
I would love to see chain craft able at the black forge.

But the bosses locking progression is literally the design of the game. People already skip parts of the game with glitches. Is moder the only crafting based one?

[stark furnace]

Bonemaw meat

[bitter totem]

that is true I did eat some of that but I didnt have much

[mellow crater]

Well, Valheim is about killing the forsakens

[bitter totem]

yagluth aswell for the wisp light but u dont rlly need it for mistlands, queen for boat

[rose swan]

I guess technically queen, since she effectively gets you a work station improvement?

[mellow crater]

That mean no Ashlands

[bitter totem]

ashlands is still possible

[slate spire]

Yeah, I would be hard pressed to change the moder tears. The point of the story in the game is fighting the bosses.

[mellow crater]

Yes but harder

[bitter totem]

eh not rlly if u have everything u need

[mellow crater]

But you are locked from mountains

[bitter totem]

fenris armor + root chest is all u need to beat the game 🙂

[mellow crater]

True

If you are skilled enough

-# not my case :)

[bitter totem]

😦

[slate spire]

Agreed. Add Frostner and you’re unstoppable.

But why remove the defeating of the bosses? What’s the goal of removing the moder hard lock? Just because?

[stiff stag]

You still need to defeat the bosses regardless eventually. Only thing skipping really does is prevent some undesirable raids.

[pale reef]

I know the discussion has moved on from this idea, but I really like the idea of a draugr raid arriving by longship. It makes great sense lore-wise, and would add an extra dimension to the decision to build a base on the coast or not, trading convenience for vulnerability.

[bitter totem]

beating bosses in reverse is a fun thing to do

[mellow crater]

Good idea but hard to implement

I think devs don’t have time to do that even if they wanted

[mellow crater]

In any cases, the fact that you have to fight a mountain dragon during the game is just so Viking !

[slate spire]

So, question. How do people feel about the sheer volume of iron needed in the game? Has it been discussed to death? It feels unbalanced to me. Not using black metal for the armor in the plains was like, okay. Weird but fine. (Great potential for alt biome armor, hint hint) and It appears on the specific black metal weapons, so fine.

But then in mistlands, we don’t go get more silver. Just more iron. The mountain biome is everywhere and we don’t go back to it. Nope, head back to the swamps for a third round. AND if you want to build anything tall: more iron. More swamps.

Do we have an understanding of “why?” Or is it just over sight? It doesn’t feel intentional other than “iron gate” wants to use “iron”.
It’s the only reason I can figure it out. lol 😂

[stiff stag]

Iron is an extremely versatile metal irl, seems pretty self explanatory why it gets used so heavily over certain other metals (like silver).

[autumn idol]

I'm pretty sure it's just because Iron is sort of the 'default' metal for any recipe that needs a non-specific metal. For example, Mistwalker is a sword but the Mistlands doesn't have any metal so it makes sense for it to require iron in addition to the new magic materials.

[lament zinc]

Mistlands has iron and copper as metal.

[stiff stag]

I believe they meant no unique metal of its own.

[bitter totem]

they could just make Plains & Mistlands weapons use Silver since so many things take Iron

[unique cove]

Or maybe bring bronze nails back on some of the build pieces

[slate spire]

The carapace and marble kind of split the role of a specific metal and I’m down with not doing another ore.

And I’m with the logic of iron is versatile. But as for level design, it feels laborious

I’d like to propose the specific transition of weapons that use eitr on the black forge to silver over iron.
Great Example: Himminafl ✅ this makes total sense. Frostner needs silver and we get spirit and frost damage. Eitr and silver give us lightning. More elemental damage.

But the Mistwalker, Jotun Bane, and Carapace Armor pieces all use eitr but not silver. It makes so much sense to me that eitr needs silver to work. But they just require iron instead. Baaack to the swamps.

The mist light uses silver.
The mist walker uses iron.

The himminifl use silver.
The Jotun bane uses iron.

My proposal is that this change frees up a whole trip to the swamps and crypts. And gives a new reason for silver. And stops a triple iron armor set.

[unique cove]

By the time you're in mistlands Iron is all around you again

Plains is a lil worse because you don't have that

[stiff stag]

Given that silver isn't necessary for eitr to function, your assumption is clearly false, and doubling down on a false assumption is not going to help your stance at all.

[unique cove]

That's uh....lil aggressive

[granite geyser]

@brazen sand

#general message

[unique cove]

Yeah I don't think VR would work too well

Rolling alone would be tricky to put in

Artsyle to, I feel like this game's look would be pretty trippy in VR

[slate spire]

You’re right, silver isn’t required for the use of eitr. Yet.
I guess I’m proposing it could and would add both balancing of materials and flavor to items that otherwise feel unintentionally just more iron.

There’s an opportunity to grow the world mythology by making silver more accepting of eitr than iron, and aligning with many mythologies around silver.

Just my two cents 🪙 🪙

[stiff stag]

My choice of words was poor there, that's my bad. Mainly the disconnect here is why does silver make sense as being necessary for eitr to function? You're only basing that on the fact that a few items just happen to use silver and not really on anything else. The himminafl only uses silver because irl silver is the best conductor of electricity out of all metals. The himminafl also happens to be where the connection between silver and eitr ends. I don't see any actual reason here for why such a change would be made or why it would make any more sense than what we already have.

[languid ibex]

It's typical with VR when games are converted, the head's rotation is locked and only the body movement moves around on the XYZ axis. It'd just feel like a small duck with some forward motion in VR most likely.

[wanton atlas]

VR mods exists

[languid ibex]

Artstyle isn't a huge drawback in any case, Minecraft VR is just fine.

[lofty wave]

How so?

[granite geyser]

@languid condor they are lowered.

And being combat-oriented is literally the entire point of the biome

[languid condor]

No it's not, I can't walk a few feet without being attacked, so give me a better idea than cheating my way through a biome that takes ages to pass

[granite geyser]

It's not what?

Using shield staff, ember staff or any other form of aoe does a lot

[peak bronze]

The spawn rate has been lowered few times already and the state of it is much better right now than before.

[granite geyser]

If they were to lower it further the biome would just become easy and boring

[languid condor]

Well for a first time player after just finishing the mistlands, this is too much

[granite geyser]

If that was the case, absolutely no one would've finished it already, and a lot of players already have.

And literally every single one of them was a "new player" as well

So i don't understand that argument

[random monolith]

isn't that the point of a hot take?

[hearty finch]

ya lol i was just gonna say

[random monolith]

lol

you can't just call opinions you disagree with rage bait

[hearty finch]

stop rage baiting him eyeball

[granite geyser]

Well, that is a good definition of what a hot take is

[peak bronze]

I envy you, experiencing everything for the first time.

Like Rianu mentioned above, if you play as mage Ember staff and Protection staff are going to be your best friends until you get materials for new staves. Or any form of AoE damage helps against hordes.

You could also utilise some newly added meads for mobility, like Ratatosk tonic and Lightfoot mead.

[hearty finch]

nah but i agree kinda with hazel, it feels weird to have such a huge spike in difficulty for a zone. feels like it should be a side-area meant for challenging content

[languid condor]

Another thing, the game is already repetitive without the quests, it's biome, fight mobs, get stuff to summon a boss, fight them, repeat

[hearty finch]

especially now since there's gonna be another zone and u might not even get to experience it because u are gatekept by ashlands

[solid dawn]

Bro we talked out our base 3 fallen valcorys isn't fun as I mage

[peak bronze]

Also, there is nothing wrong to adjust world modifiers for making it bit easier until you adapt.

[granite geyser]

Nah

[languid condor]

Yuh

[peak bronze]

The good thing is that Valkyries deal friendly fire damage to other mobs so you could lure them killing each other with their swipes.

[solid dawn]

But 3 at once

[granite geyser]

It's as repetitive as you want it to be

[peak bronze]

Yeah, they still can harm each other.

[languid condor]

I'd love to see you play the whole game in hardcore mode

[granite geyser]

I reached ashlands in very hard

[arctic wharf]

Pointless squabble over the term hot take 😂
shaking my head.

In my opinion on the matter at least... I don't think ashlands is that hard. Just have to take it slower as boldly rushing around is a sure way to get a whole army chasing you.

[languid condor]

HA! you're funny, no.

[granite geyser]

No what?

What are you even denying?

[arctic wharf]

no?

[languid condor]

Was I talking to you, no

[solid dawn]

Look we're taking it slow yet we deal with one group a second one comes up I feel like I'm playing for 3ed partys

[arctic wharf]

someone is tilted....
I did say in my opinion. I don't find ashlands to be that hard 👀

[granite geyser]

Literally every single player that complains about the game being repetitive is due to them making it repetitive.

In other words it's essentially never the game's fault

[arctic wharf]

I do play solo though, which means it's a little easier to control my situation with stuff like noise and sniping enemies ahead of time.

[granite geyser]

Yes

#suggestion-discussion message

And being salty out of nowhere won't get you far btw

[solid dawn]

I can agree on that but dose warlock fire really need to do a 50 damage per tick

[languid condor]

It's too difficult, to jump from a moderate biome to one where I die the second I get there

[arctic wharf]

no, It really isn't...
I am saying it is my opinion, and the opinion is on the matter at hand (Suggestion being discussed)

[granite geyser]

Fire mead, root harnesk (they deal piece and fire)

So... you are admitting you're just rage baiting?

[solid dawn]

That doesn't work it gose threw armor

[granite geyser]

At this point I just see that you can't handle disagreements, idk why you're here if that's the case

[languid condor]

Read betterrrrrrrr it's an amazing skill

[granite geyser]

Goes through armor what?

[arctic wharf]

root harnesk gives pierce resistance, which is different than actual armor. it likely still takes that into account?

[solid dawn]

I have fire protection and everything but it's doing so much damage

[bitter totem]

it doesn't do that much dmg if u have fire potions

[stark furnace]

what difficulty setting @solid dawn ?

[solid dawn]

Default

[granite geyser]

They deal 100 pierce and 70 fire on default. With fire mead and root harnesk they should deal half of that

They also deal 20 blunt but that's pretty ignorable

[stark furnace]

Make sure not to linger in the aoe, fire damage stacks and quickly becomes painful and catches you off guard

[bitter totem]

Pierce? hm guess thats another reason to use root chestpiece

[arctic wharf]

85 damage still is a decent hit, but far more managable ye.

[granite geyser]

Bombarding them with ember staff is one

[solid dawn]

I'm getting out the fire it's the after burn that's hurting

[bitter totem]

use a bow or just go after them first

[granite geyser]

it shouldn't with fire mead

[stark furnace]

no mods?

[solid dawn]

I'm on Xbox

[arctic wharf]

mostly why I guess it is not too much of a struggle for me. it is rare an enemy gets the drop on me first. 🤔

[languid condor]

It doesn't do much anyway

[summer canopy]

I'm talking comparatively to the other Ashlands foods

[solid dawn]

Idk why it just not i think

[arctic wharf]

Am curious how Xbox controls compared to PC. hmmm

[solid dawn]

U have to press rb and be to donge/perry

[arctic wharf]

not literal controls, I just meant I wonder weather it is harder or easier overall.
Usually PC gives a finer degree of control, which might be a small advantage.

[solid dawn]

Id say earlier

[bitter totem]

are there custom bindings on controller or do u have to switch between the slots 1 by 1?

[solid dawn]

No it start with what it gives u

[bitter totem]

??

[summer canopy]

'scorching medley'

[solid dawn]

U can change your controls on Xbox

[languid condor]

He's better on Xbox, it's more difficult on the pc because even with my more compacted keys with my actions, it's still difficult

[solid dawn]

Can't*

[bitter totem]

then pc is easier

[arctic wharf]

I think that might be somewhat the case, though likely not by a whole lot. just one aspect that helps me feel like I am have an easier time, since I play PC only.

[summer canopy]

I was saying, because eit feels like as soon as you get fiddleheads, possible within 3 min of entering Ashlands, you automatically get the best food for the biome, and the resource cost is very low

[peak bronze]

Also, scorching medley and mashed meat require lvl 6 cauldron.

[summer canopy]

Ooohhhhh.... I completely disregarded that. My mistake

[peak bronze]

Some foods like fiery svinstew and spicy marmalade can be crafted with lvl 5 cauldron tho.

[summer canopy]

Yeah, I guess it's not the material cost of the food that you're paying for, but the flam metal for the cauldron

[stiff stag]

#suggestions message The reason they're suggesting another option for the keys is because there is currently no option/keybind available in game to change it. And your post doesn't belong in that channel either.

[arctic wharf]

Really showing how tilted you are.

Without stirring the pot too much, best to just take a moment and calm yourself.

Been too many snide comments and arguments lately 😅

Directed at Hazel, just for clarity*

[stiff stag]

I made the conscious choice not to accuse them of engaging in that behavior. Definitely clouded their judgement in this situation though.

[arctic wharf]

Fair yeah 😅

[rose swan]

Lots of spicy “discussions” recently 😔

[wet drift]

#suggestions message
Ashlands doesn't need less combat. It needs more of anything that isn't combat.

[languid ibex]

Sounds like that player is ignoring the catapult 😅

[autumn idol]

Ashlands needs more variety in the fortress designs imo. They're a really cool concept held back by the fact that they're all the same square box. They lose a lot of the variety that the Fuling Villages/Infested Mines/other dungeons have

I know that'd probably be a lot to change but it remains my biggest sticking point with the biome

[bitter totem]

the Fortress designs are cool, they can just be cheesed way too easily which is the problem

[slate spire]

I could get behind that distinction. I love the concept of Ashlands. And I’m about to go there for the first time since release so I’ll get back to ya’ll. But I am kind of dreading it.
I just remember the cheese @bitter totem is mentioning. We all went up and over and never built the war machines suggested but the game. It felt too impossible.

[bitter totem]

also only the fuling villages have variety while the mines & other dungeons are either small or massive but the villages actually have more buildings, or tents, or farms as well as being bigger or smaller in size etc

putrid hole is basically a troll cave

[slate spire]

And “hot take”, the catapult flinging people feels like an unintended mistake but it’s gone on too long to remove now. There, I said it. Grab your pitch forks.

[wet drift]

Medows/BF teaches basics.
Swamp isn't fun by itself, but by that part of the game you can also make your first visit to Plains and even Mistlands.
Mountains are, fittingly, peak.
By the time you're done with Mountains, you probably already have all the Plains resources you need, because they're that fun getting.
Mistlands introduces all the magic stuff.

But ashlands really is just combat.

I think perhaps patches of more vertical terrain could have made the lava more interesting. Make me do some jumps! Rn it's just something to be walked around.

It would also probably help if the ruins weren't accessible off the coast.

By the time you have to do all the combat, you already have your vine farm or whatever. Beyond the fortresses, which are even more combat, the normal enemies aren't even guarding anything I need.

[languid ibex]

I think this is an excellent point, and if I had to guess Ashlands feels lesser because it's more akin to Swamps than any other biome. Swamps is definitely helped along by being the first biome you'll likely be adventuring or sailing to, and thus discovering what else is to come. Ashlands is intentionally cut off, often difficult to reach, difficult to sail island to island, and isn't much more than a mix of 4 generated structures(Putrid Holes, Fallen Temples, Charred Forts & Flametal Pillars).

[arctic wharf]

I reeeeeaaally wish we could do so much more with dungeon content. 😢

Though there are some limits even for them that need to be overcome to really push the envelope further.

There really is a lot I would push for... if I really thought I could haha

Create a list of existing mechanics and tools the player has access to at each biome.
Not every mechanic or tool needs a use every biome, but ensure they are not long forgotten and ignored.
Consider more items that have uses in past biomes and unlock content around the whole world, not just the biome you find it.

And address the mechanics that are severely lacking (those talked about again and again).

[summer canopy]

i really hope that deep north gets some unique dungeons, my favorite part of the game is raiding the burial chambers.

[stark furnace]

with how poorly fortresses went i'd bet they'd go back to traditional dungeons

[arctic wharf]

I want more dungeons throughout the old biomes too though 🤭
Particularly dungeons you can't even enter until you acquire items from later biomes, thus giving ua some backtracking value and reason to explore more of the map even when we get to the last two biomes that are so concentrated on the poles.

[stark furnace]

I think if they were to expand more on "elite" dungeons it'd be super cool. Hildirs quest kinda toyed with the idea but I feel like they should go further with the idea

[stiff stag]

#suggestions message Don't think it should be disabled in general, but perhaps just an option to do so.

[bitter totem]

This could be a good idea, but the enemies in these dungeons would need to have their hp & dmg scaled with whatever biomes item you need to get in there.

[languid ibex]

I suppose, I'll edit the suggestion to include the optional phrasing. Some players could enjoy that you can do that, though I wouldn't be sure why personally.

[stiff stag]

Same reason you would want to put any other item on an armor stand, item frame, etc.

Obviously no one wants to do so when they don't mean to, which is why an option to disable it would be great (over it being forced or not having an option to disable it at all).

[arctic wharf]

100%, or heck... they could be even stronger.
Who says every dungeon has to be part of core progression?
Some could be optional with really nice but not neccessary rewards.
And the monsters in them can be especially challenging.

I know we have a couple from hilders quest... but they are mostly just re-hashed existing dungeons with a new mini boss plopped somewhere inside.

Personally, that is extremely underwhelming 🤭

Sadly boss design is not their strong suit.
Need more mechanics to them that are not just dodge and avoid, and more involvement to killing them aside from massive health bars.

[grand sable]

Is it viable to suggest something for the server rather than the game

[arctic wharf]

Seen it before at least 🤔

[grand sable]

i will see if i get shot

[bitter totem]

good suggestion

[sick smelt]

can we have barrels placed on their sides? thatd be a cool addition

[wanton atlas]

@languid condor don't reply to #suggestions posts in that channel.

[slate spire]

#suggestions message
I had some crossbow ideas and ent back to the December discussion. Seems people are in favor of an earlier adoption.

What about moving the crossbows and bolts to the artisan table, and adding the “crossbow” there. Arbelist would remain the name of the mistlands item and balancing.

Crossbow could be fine wood, root, and core wood. And the arbelist could require a spring for the original crafting (already associated with the artisan table)
This would 1. Add recipes to the artisan table and declutter black forge.
2. Introduce item to build on mastery of mountains without changing the current entry difficulty and balance.
3. Start using bone bolts sooner as they feel out dated by the time carapace and arbelist show up. (And I always have soooo much bone by mid game) ((there’s a joke there I’m gonna pass up))
And 4. Give a great weapon option for the plains start and let it shine before switching to magic as previously discussed.

[granite geyser]

"seems people are in favor of an earlier adoption"

Fortunately, devs aren't. And guess whose opinion matters the most

[wanton atlas]

?

you mean people still try to re-work the entire game from start, when we are almost finished with the whole game project?

[wanton atlas]

sadly I won't make the slow timers any diffrent from what they currently are.
when time get's hectic here, people tend to spam like there is no tomorrow and the slowmode have to exist to keep out bots and trolls from just oblitterate chats

[slate spire]

How would this be a rework of the game?

[rose swan]

Visions of Den K suggestions 😅 ||if you remember lol||

[wanton atlas]

yes

don't get me started

[summer canopy]

#suggestions message i asked about that, and aparerently the game engine that valheim runs on doesn't support detailed water physics, so i don't think that's possible/plausible

[arctic wharf]

Its Unity 👀

[wanton atlas]

does it need to be even more detailed than it already is?

[summer canopy]

no, not really.

if it aint broke don't fix it

[rose swan]

Is something broke about the water? 🤔

[languid ibex]

Doesn't that make it more straight forward? 🤔

[outer crown]

So it works as it is supposed to 🙂

[mellow crater]

Water physics are horrible things to do : it ask for lot of knowledge from the humans doing it, and it ask lot of resources from the computer to render it

Water isn’t the main point of Valheim, so they decided to spend a minimum of time on the subject. They were right IMO.

[arctic wharf]

Been over this topic too many times heh.
There will never be realistic water physics.

Right now the water is a simple water plane with height map manipulation.

Would effectively have to entirely throw it out and try something new, and even then it is extremely hard to make half decent water physics (especially with terrain you can alter).

For this reason, many 3D games just steer clear of even trying, and those that don't often have janky water physics.

I have plenty of examples of both.

[lofty wave]

Why does valheim need water physics?

[arctic wharf]

Doesn't.
Actually think what they have now is very nice for valheims gameplay.

[mellow crater]

Just take a look to Minecraft water physics. I can’t find many examples of games doing better, and still the water is absolutely illogical in Minecraft.

[arctic wharf]

Is very few games I have seen with pretty nice water physics AND distrucrable terrain.

[mellow crater]

The waves are quite impressive btw, first time I get caught in a storm I was like “wut ! This one is higher than my boat ??!!! Never saw a game doing that without cinematic !”

[rose swan]

Not to mention if we had “realistic” what physics, the oceans would just flow off the side of the world

[mellow crater]

I forgot about that 🤣
So there are waterfalls in Valheim then !

[crimson dock]

Unfortunately only one that goes all the way around the edge of the world

Would love to see creeks and streams in the hills of black forests

[languid ibex]

I can't even think of a handful of games with functional flowing water, majority are similar to Valheim, they just don't have terrain manipulation.

[wet drift]

Not a lot of games do it, but the absence is just felt particularly hard in Valheim because building is such a huge part of it, especially once you're hours are getting up there.

[rose swan]

#suggestions message @soft hemlock Try to separate your suggestions into different posts, it helps with voting 🙂

[mellow crater]

Yes, I agree with the two first but not the last, what am I supposed to do? If lease split your message in 3 posts.

[soft hemlock]

apologies. with slowmode initialized, was trying to get it all out before I forgot. got kid aggro

[rose swan]

No worries I like to write all my suggestions down in a notepad because I’m a weirdo lol

[hearty finch]

can ppl put tl;dr of their suggestion at top and then further explaination, if needed, under

[crimson dock]

#suggestions message at level 60ish jump and with ratatosk and lightfoot you can literally parkour off the spikes and flags outside the fortresses to get in lol

could probably be done with lower skill lvl just talking from personal experience I forgot to share the clip when I took and not sure I saved it

[stark furnace]

would love to see a clip of that didn't know you could do that

[crimson dock]

Going gym rn but I’ll check if I got it when I’m home

[granite geyser]

#suggestions message

"Most of these suggestions have not been suggested before"

Contrary to the fact most of them HAVE been suggested before...

Like, only 2 out of every 10 suggestions are truly unique. And I think I'm still being optimistic

[summer canopy]

add bears

[polar palm]

Allow Heavy Bait to be crafted from Bonemaw trophy (as it seems to be a serpent) - can't see the suggestions channel currently

[bitter totem]

#suggestions message wtf is that shitty ass ending

[hearty finch]

hater alert

[rose swan]

#suggestions message You can now play as Luigi

[bitter totem]

any time it was all a dream has been used in media, it has been hated

now imagine if valheim did this 😐

[hearty finch]

hm yea and then u get newgame+ opportunity to replay valheim as luigi

[bitter totem]

🔥

[hearty finch]

damn we are cooking

[slate spire]

After spending a couple days in here, it would be very helpful to have a pinned list of “never gonna happen”, “we’ve heard it,” and “I’m jaded by this” as guides. The tone from those that have been here longer, is very jaded. I came looking for conversation about a game I love and instead feel like I’m breaking rules and making faux pas posts without knowing what I’ve done wrong.

I look up my suggestions before making them. But the history only goes back to the server hack. I even tried discussing things before making it a suggestion. And instead of discourse, I’m getting aggravation on a trigger word I’ve used that I had no way of knowing was an issue or previously discussed.

I even looked up that this pinned list was suggested previously.. so I won’t make it another 💡. But it would greatly help new comers and enthusiasts direct their ideas and weed out the repeats for y’all.

🪙 🪙

[languid ibex]

Given that it'd be a countless amount, and phrasing/intention/minor details can vary with things suggested often, the response via reaction is usually the best indicator the community has. I've seen two very similar suggestions result in both extremes on the reaction spectrum while being recycled all the same. A good recent example is the landscaping suggestion by TooMuchDogg where many elements were carefully considered vs. the endless barrage of people suggesting plantable berry bushes.

[eternal wyvern]

#suggestions message Am I the only one that forgot the scene in Inception where DiCaprio opened up his computer to play Valheim at the end?

[arctic wharf]

You are dang right it should really exist

Though if it's hasn't happened by now, the odds are slim yeah.
Unfortunate really.

.
On an unrelated note... what madness is that abomination of a run skill suggestion
Exaggerating ofcourse, but I do think it is a terrible idea.

[random monolith]

Making the xp cost go up exponentially lol

[fluid laurel]

#suggestions message this honestly seems like a kinda cool idea, but also a bit terrifying to me lol since I always usually build really close to water so I can have docks for boat trips (or mainly raft trips ig where I take absolutely nothing with me just to explore and see what I find)

[storm sun]

Yeah, I agree. Altho what creatures would be able to be part of the raid? Because I can only think of one hostile sea creature (two if you count neck) and its the sea serpent (idk if it's called smth else)

Altho I haven't gotten very far through the game

[fluid laurel]

Maybe more get added? Or it's just a horde of serpents lol

[storm sun]

OH GOD

[fluid laurel]

Imagine the event pops up and the water is just serpent spaghetti

[storm sun]

That would be time to make a new base

[fluid laurel]

I imagine the event would only start showing when you're at a base near water and only after you've killed at least one serpent or something though, so by then you'd be ready enough to kill serpents, right? Or at least be prepared in advance once you know about the event to create a high ground to shoot them from, idk

[storm sun]

Yeah, probably

Altho, knowing me I'd try to get the abyssal harpoon and make a pit with water in it inland a bit and try to trap one

[fluid laurel]

If I did that I'd probably have the thought halfway through to close it in and keep it as a pet lol

[storm sun]

Lol, I wanna make a zoo type thing in one of my worlds and just trap every mob (it'd be hard and I wouldn't be able to trap the bosses tho)

Actually, I know you can trap the elder and I think you can trap eyktheir (I can't remember how to spell it)

But I can't think of another boss you can really trap

[fluid laurel]

Every new world I'm in I always end up taming boars, and my friend usually goes into nearby mountains with nothing but wood, a hammer, and boar meat to capture and tame wolves to bring home for me
The current world I'm in I'm about to be building near-ish to plains so I might try to get some lox too when I'm able

[storm sun]

Nice, your friend has a death wish tho lol

[fluid laurel]

He's died many times in every world doing it but he always succeeds in the end and we get wolves while still in early game before even beating bonemass

[storm sun]

Altho, I'm only just up to the swamp and Ive raided one of the mountain cave things (I ran for my life like 20+ times but I fully raided it)

[storm sun]

Wow, I kinda wanna try to tame some wolves for my gf and me now

[fluid laurel]

So far it seems like the best way to do it has been set up a sort of cage first, my friend usually uses the wooden stake wall things, make sure you have a way out with ladders and maybe double-layer the walls, throw the meat in the cage, lure a wolf in, close it, and use the ladder to get out before it kills you

[storm sun]

Ok, thx for the advice

[fluid laurel]

I will say, each time it is a lot of trial and error and many deaths, but it's been pretty worth it I think

[storm sun]

Now that I think about it I haven't tamed any animals yet (I only have about 40hrs) so if I manage to have my first tamed animal be a wolf that'd be pretty cool

[storm sun]

I have like three sets of level 3 troll hide so I'm not super worried about dying (idk why I had so much troll hide)

[fluid laurel]

Mountains are cold too tho, which is part of what caused the deaths sometimes iirc
Although to be fair my friend did go in with, like I said, literally nothing but wood, hammer, and meat, so if you're going in with armor you'll probably be good lol

[storm sun]

Yeah, and in the world I have like 3-4 meads of frost resistance or whatever it's called

(I made them when I was raiding the cave)

[fluid laurel]

Oh then yeah you'll probably be good, just eat good health and stamina foods and a frost resist and wolves should be fairly easy

[storm sun]

I normally have queens jam, deer meat and boar meat. Which I think gives a good balance of stamina and health

And they all last for 20mins which is nice. I think with them all at 20mins left I have like 100hp and 105 stamina

[hearty finch]

it's in the director's cut

[lofty wave]

#suggestions message
👎

[heady compass]

Then downvote it?

[lofty wave]

He’s blocked me, I can’t react

[heady compass]

🤣

Ill do it for ya

[lament zinc]

#suggestions message

Why need this when you can simply hold the [E]-key to get it filled. No need to tap that key at all.

[wraith temple]

Because holding e is slower than hacking your pc, learning binary, typing in the binary code for e, forgetting everything you learned, then repeating again for each individual drop.

Tbh, I was thinking a lever system like the obliterater would be better, drop a whole stack, then pull the lever.

[lament zinc]

So we get a key to put one item in, a key to put a stack in, a key to put half a stack in, a key to put 10 items in, a key to put 5 items in and before we know it, we're using [shift]+[ctrl]+[alt] in a million possible combinations to fill a device.

Yup, seems completely logical to me and much better as just holding a single key for 3 seconds to put in the amount needed.

[wraith temple]

Or, make the furnace with one ore of the one you'll be using, example: a copper furnace will take 20 stone, 2 surting cores, and one copper ore. And that furnace will only ever smelt copper until you deconstruct it and rebuild it with a different ore. Then open it, and just auto drop a stack.

[rare arrow]

this is the best and simplest solution, but I wish it was a little faster with the autofill, maybe double the speed?

[lament zinc]

Now that's a solution I can live with,

[granite geyser]

#suggestions message

I don't understand what this would achieve

@rare arrow

#valheim-chat message

This time seems like it's more about "make us so after we finish DN, we have to beat second phase of DN so we can use the items we got in first phase"

But again, I'm not seeing the need or more especially the purpose for this

[rose swan]

Deep North 2

[arctic wharf]

I would have downvoted it also hehehe

And his next one for an emote... also a 👎

[fleet lintel]

Well, my toddler would tell you that when you’re having fun, that fun should last forever and if it doesn’t it’s an absolutely cataclysmic disaster.

[granite geyser]

So what already happens?

[fleet lintel]

Well yeah, that’s the purpose I’m assuming is behind it. Avert imminent disaster and emotional devastation

[mellow crater]

Usually you max your character, you get this powerful weapon so you can kill the boss, and then the game end. And it is like “Uh, I won’t use my stuff anymore, the mightiest is the one I used the least”.
Anyway, Ashland are actually great for that purpose: instead of the other biomes you first fight for your stuff and then attack a fortress. Your stuff is useful. On others biomes you get the powerful stuff when it remains only the boss to fight: you will use your new power for the next biome. I don’t want it to happen with the last biome because there won’t be a next biome (logical, this is the end). But I still want to use my new power.
That is the reason I posted my suggestion.

[fleet lintel]

The games going to end at some point, the best time for that is after the last boss

[mellow crater]

Absolutely not what I meant. Endless fun doesn’t exist: humans need things to change or they will be bored

[fleet lintel]

But you will be able to build and run around and kill things as much as you like afterwards

[mellow crater]

No, I don’t want to be able to play after the last boss

I want to kill this last forsaken and finally get to Valhalla.

But before, I want to need the power the game will give me

[granite geyser]

You are assuming we know what the last power will be, which we don't.

[mellow crater]

Not only for the forsaken, but also for an army of foes just like for the others stuffs

[mellow crater]

I am only assuming there will be DN stuff just like there is Ashlands stuff

Oh, I wasn’t even thinking of forsaken power

I don’t expect the last one to have any power

[fleet lintel]

Now I’m confused. I don’t understand how the game doesn’t function like that already

Enemies get harder (more stars) and spawn more densely the deeper you go into biomes and further from center you get

So you make the new gear as you explore deeper in. Then you kill the foresaken

You want the game to realize when you have crafted everything in the deep north and just sort of reset the difficulty level so you’re basically back to square one?

Before you have even killed the foresaken? Because currently the game doesn’t track a whole lot of “events” other killing forsaken and other raid based stuff

[mellow crater]

The game -except for Ashlands- work like : you have a stuff, you fight enemies so you get a better stuff, and when you got it you have only the boss as a real threat. Your new stuff is really useful for the next biome.

[fleet lintel]

You want it to track level 4 crafting or something?

[mellow crater]

Naahh, I just want a similar game design as Ashlands have : where you need and use your new stuff more than only one time.

[fleet lintel]

I would argue that all the biomes function similarly. Ashlands and DN are different as other biomes aren’t immediately accessible by land in them.

But I would assume deep north will be more similar to Ashlands than to meadows

[mellow crater]

IMO Ashlands doesn’t work like the others biomes because you use Ashlands stuff in Ashlands

[fleet lintel]

Im sure you can go to you tube and find people killing fader with rag tunics and club somewhere. You could certainly do it with mistlands gear

[mellow crater]

Did you use black forest stuff in black forest ? No, you use it in swamp. Black forest stuff is powerful enough so that greydwarfs are no more a threat

[fleet lintel]

I absolutely fought the elder in troll hide armor

Why wouldn’t I? I also used a fine bow. All Black Forest stuff

[mellow crater]

I am speaking of normal progression, not progression of skilled people like that

[fleet lintel]

You make the gear as you go and use it organically

[mellow crater]

I too. Like I said: you use black forest stuff for boss and swamps

[fleet lintel]

If you stumble across a boss stone and know where the boss is and think you can kill it, you don’t need to keep upgrading your stuff

If you’re having trouble and dying all the time you probably keep fighting and upgrading and “using your gear” longer

Fader certainly takes longer because the mechanics for acquiring bell fragments and then forging the fragments into bells means you need to go through more of a slog to get them

But it’s not categorically different. Just slightly more involved

I guess I’m just confused, because I feel like based on the direction the game is going, all evidence indicates you’re going to get exactly what you want, which is fine

I was just trying to figure out what you wanted them to do differently

[mellow crater]

The difference between Ashlands and other biomes is that you can first get flammetal and then fight the important place

In plains as an example it is the opposite

Same for mistlands
Same for swamps
Etc…

[fleet lintel]

How is plains different? You get linen thread then make padded armor or black metal for weapons, etc

In mistlands you get enriched eitr and then make magic gear

[mellow crater]

Each time you need to fight in the dungeon and then you are able to craft your grears

[fleet lintel]

You always can get new material during the biome and before the boss

[mellow crater]

Plains : fight fulings villages allow you to craft blackmetal weapons.
Mistlands : fight in the infested mines so you can craft the forge and all your gears

[fleet lintel]

Ashlands is exactly the same

You mine flame metal and make flametal stuff

[mellow crater]

Ashlands : mine the flammetal tooths so you are strong enough to attack a fortress

The fortress came after the metal

[bitter totem]

You don't need flametal tools to attack a fortress tho

[fleet lintel]

You need a battering ram no?

I’m sure there is some leet way to do it if you want skip content

[bitter totem]

Nah u can build ladders and jump inside with potions

[mellow crater]

Depends on your skills. Plus battering rams if you play the “intended way”

[bitter totem]

True 😄

[fleet lintel]

That would be such a pain…

[bitter totem]

Much faster then a battering ram lol

[fleet lintel]

Building a shield generator so your ladder didn’t burn, or a stone cutter to make stone stairs

[mellow crater]

I tried ladders but I and my two friends aren’t skilled enough to do it with mistlands gears

[fleet lintel]

But I guess you’d still need a generator to protect the stone cutter

[mellow crater]

Anyway, did you see what I mean now ?

[bitter totem]

No generator needed, just workbench 😕

[fleet lintel]

No?

[mellow crater]

Stuff and then fight, instead of fight and then stuff

[bitter totem]

But tbh all biomes follow same progression

[fleet lintel]

You need to go into the mines to get the seal fragments you go into fortresses to get bell fragments.

Everything you have said, to me, just demonstrates how the mechanics are basically the same

[mellow crater]

You need to go into the mines to get black cores and craft mistlands gears. You don’t need to go into fortress to get Ashlands stuff

[fleet lintel]

Yeah you do, for the gems

[bitter totem]

You get new stuff from exploring mines, dungeons etc then u make it and fight the boss and enemies with ur new gear which makes it easier to fight the regular enemies there and the boss then u use ur current gear to begin the new biome

For the bells to summon the boss as well, and flametal

[fleet lintel]

Just the flame metal is pretty meh. You need the bloodstones and other rocks.

[summer canopy]

I agree with vMatt, I think that it'd be nice if you got the deep north dangerous overworld with massive giants waiting to squish you, and you get all/most of your upgrades, then you craft something like a seal breaker to enter deep north dungeons, where you get a tiny bit of extra gear and the boss summon mats.

[mellow crater]

Exactly. Now the point of my suggestion: DN don’t have a next biome.

And that is absolutely logical, no problem

[bitter totem]

Yea

[mellow crater]

But, that means you will not use your DN gears a lot

Only for the boss.
That the reason I want to use it BEFORE the boss fight

[bitter totem]

U can do it without making the new gear but u have to be skilled at the game or only make certain gear if u want

I for example don't make new armor past fenris armor, I only make new weapons because I wanna use cool weapons in the biomes when i already used all the armor in the game

[mellow crater]

I am posting suggestions for every players, for the game design. Not for my own personal taste.
I perfectly know I can make this game harder if I want.

[fleet lintel]

It seems like the meat of your suggestion is that you don’t want the biome to be so easy and play so quickly that you end up killing the boss before you feel like you’ve made use of your equipment

Which based on the general progression of biomes and difficulty and amount of materials you need to summon bosses seeming like you generally need more of them/they are more scarce, I don’t think you have any reason to worry about

[summer canopy]

I think it's more like he wants(or at least I want) an extra bit of 'content' AFTER you would typically aquire deep north gear.

[mellow crater]

That is almost that. I don’t want a full harder biome. I want a biome that is a bit harder (like the others) but have a second stage where you struggle against just as if you had a same themed next biome before the boss

[bitter totem]

If u r complaining about not using ur gear enough, fight the mini bosses again because the enemies there still do damage even with flametal armor and Ashland's food

[arctic wharf]

It is likely because the usual formula has you acquiring your gear as one of the last steps through the trials of the biome, and all that awaits after gearing up is the boss before you move on to the next biome.
but we don't have a next biome, and thus they likely want a section of the Deep North to unlock only after the usual gearing-up stage, or at least really feel like it needs it and thus giving the gear more use than usual all contained within the biome you acquire it.
This could be achieved more naturally by creating a mechanic we can't get past without some sort of set bonus that is included with the Deep North armor sets.

Example: The deep north grand dungeons could have rooms filled with deep red life-draining flowers that require repelling armor to move through without rapidly dying. This semi-gates the innermost areas of the dungeon with a soft lock. Then to drive it home, some of the enemies deep within could have brutal mechanics/damage types which are greatly lessened with deep north gear also. The Flowers Dissuade you at first, and the enemies slap you if you decide to blindly ignore the flowers and proceed without one of the final tiers of gear

[summer canopy]

Deep north mini-boss that also has progression incentives( perhaps the next upgrade to the black forge) that you should only be fighting after you get deep north gear

[mellow crater]

Let’s give an example because I see I am not explaining my thoughts well (no offense, explaining what you think in another language and in messages is hard).

Let’s say you arrive in DN with your ship and your ashlands gears. You land, start exploring and encounter challenging foes. You get new materials fighting inside dungeons and gradually get more powerful. Now, enemies are less challenging, and you reach the north of the biome where you know the forsaken is, and NOW…
A range of high cliffs block you. Only at some places where there is a hole in the cliffs, greats doors are blocking the way. You discover that the special item you have isn’t for the boss summoning, but for opening the gates. And now welcome to a biome-in-the-biome where you have to fight harder foes just to get the boss summoning item.

[arctic wharf]

yep, a multitiered biome so to speak with a stage after the usual experience that makes much more use of the initial gear

though, your scale is much grander ofc with a whole secondary area of the biome itself.

could be neat

[mellow crater]

Yees someone got what I mean! Thanks you :)

Did everyone get it ?

[mellow crater]

That was what I had in mind, but your version is great as well

[bitter totem]

Yea but I don't like ur first suggestion, I wanna be able to use fenris armor without dying to some poison in the dungeons 😦

[arctic wharf]

I get what you are putting down

[mellow crater]

I will add my example to my suggestion so that people understand better

[arctic wharf]

hahahaha, really tied to your move speed?

[bitter totem]

Yes and the drip 🙂

[arctic wharf]

kudos to you on sticking with fenris even in ashlands.

Scary proposition

[bitter totem]

It's not too bad once you try to not face tank 50 enemies

[summer canopy]

You can always make the 'gear' more like a wisplight than a armor piece

[arctic wharf]

I know what you are hoping for rej, it's just that is far from the intended way to play and any designs the devs devise for DN should not revolve around enabling that. It is technically really obsolete gear.

[arctic wharf]

a trinket, or in vMatt's example it was just a key.

[summer canopy]

Yea, my idea was kinda like the seal breaker but for the dungeons

[arctic wharf]

yep, ton's of ways to go about achieving what they are thinking of in their suggestion.

[bitter totem]

Well even if we're not able to beat bosses in reverse I still wanna be able to go into the deep North with my armor and not die to some attack which can only be prevented by using the newest armor 🙁

[arctic wharf]

It's an interesting idea too, which I could go for considering this is the last biome and the best place for it to work.

[arctic wharf]

fair desire, was mostly just giving one example and am not at all tied to it. 🙂

[mellow crater]

I do hope devs will surprise us no matter what they will do.
And I do believe they will find some great design allowing to get to the last forsaken with mountain gears, because they are aware many people are playing this way and it always had been clearly intended in the game design that we can go anywhere at any level.

And they are a good team. They will do what they want, and it will be great in any case because they have good ideas, a good “gameplay feeling”. Great games are great for a reason: their creators are not average people :)

[arctic wharf]

My biggest desire is still to see a lot more content around the whole world, not almost entirely within the deep north 🤭
Particularly wanting content you have to come back for with items acquired within these last few biomes (Mistlands-Ashlands-DeepNorth).

[mellow crater]

Ohh great idea!

Hugin coming with “this seems powerful ! Get <item clue> before trying anything with that.”

[granite geyser]

It's also intended that you play through the progression

[mellow crater]

Of course, didn’t said anything different

[arctic wharf]

half intended, I would say. They do try to avoid super hard locks it seems.

[mellow crater]

They just leave us doing what we want with the world. They are working so that we can play the game in a way, but leave room for others possiblies

[wanton atlas]

https://tenor.com/view/skeletor-laughs-in-evil-laughing-myah-myaah-dasmemeistgut-gif-5356566587527840753

[eternal wyvern]

The final boss is gonna be weak to pierce damage.

[lofty wave]

I just hope it's blunt resistant. All bosses have been neutral or weak to blunt so far.

[storm sun]

Idk, I haven't looked at any mods

[storm sun]

I had a message that should have been sent with it but I can't see it.

Why are ppl saying it's been suggested before? I just searched through every message that has the word arrow in it and I'm the only one who has suggested smth like that

(I just looked at it) kinda

Ok

Yeah lol, altho I would prefer if Better archery has some drop for broken arrows

[bitter totem]

they should just remove the ♻️ emoji from the suggestions bc I didn't even know the server got hacked, same with ppl and tons of msgs got wiped apparently

[stiff stag]

Another benefit is that if you're not getting much engagement or feedback on a suggestion, the reaction indicates that people have already seen and discussed it before and may not want to discuss it again (and the more reactions there are generally the less people will weigh in on the topic).

[rose swan]

#suggestions message All for changing up the method of acquiring the fishing hat; I think moving it to the frost caves would be interesting 🤔 or as a purchasable from Hildir after returning the silver chest?

[slate spire]

My critique of the fishing pole is it doesn’t show up early enough. Silver chest and frost caves (there is a rare chance to get one there already) means it doesn’t show up till even later

What about leaving it with Haldor and give more rare chances of it spawning like the frost cave chance in meadows and swamp. (That means it’s possible to encounter in the first four biomes)

A chance could be added to the buried chests in meadows if new content isnt possible. And in rare chests in the swamp huts that have the table and chair in them.

[obtuse wolf]

this is for the fishing hat not fishing pole

fishing hat currently is a wearable helment that gives +20 fishing and +20 swim levels and requires 7 of every fish

[rose swan]

Yeah I forgot to put a word in 😅

Added ‘hat’ to my message.

[obtuse wolf]

but yea having it be a purchasable item could also work i just wanted my idea to still have the original method of obtaining

bcs i like the idea of obtaining every fish and getting some cool reward for exploring and fishing

[rose swan]

I think the fishing pole is in a good spot, I feel like it’s pretty early in the game 🤔

I like the idea of a final reward as well- I just think the hat (well, more specifically the fishing buff) is an odd choice.

[wet drift]

They should do that more. Give us a helmet that ups our pickaxes but requires a stack of each metal in the game.
(The worst thing is, this is an obvious joke, but still manages to be waaay more usefull)

[obtuse wolf]

yea espically since it requires all the fish and after mistlands theres no use for fish

well at least not as much use i still sometimes use the sailors feast

[wet drift]

Actually, they should make an item that just maxes all skills but requires 33 unique items to craft.

[slate spire]

Oh! I’m with ya now. And I like the upgrades with tiers of fish. That’s a great idea 💡!

[barren oasis]

@mellow crater I think that's a really cool idea but I think it'd be more fitting to have it be related to elevation. Basically there could be very big valleys where it is safer but as you climb up the mountains in the deep north it gets more dangerous

[wanton atlas]

@obtuse wolf no responding to other users ideas in #suggestions

that's why we have this channel

[obtuse wolf]

i was just expanding on the idea

[granite geyser]

You can do that without replying

[obtuse wolf]

true but also ive seen other people do the same without any repercussions so i didnt think there was any rules on it

either enforce ur rule more or just dont bother

[stiff stag]

No need to act obnoxious about it.

And the reason rules aren't always enforced is because people with permissions to do so naturally aren't around 24/7.

[stark furnace]

https://discordapp.com/channels/391142601740517377/1202312684364910612/1332605241555812393

he's kinda right to be honest it's not that uncommon of an occurrence

[obtuse wolf]

well its like for the few months ive lurked in these channels and never seen such a rule enforced ever then suddenly its like im the only one the rule is being enforced upon so i feel like its kinda right for me to feel a little annoyed about it

[random monolith]

I can't tell if the jetpacks suggestion is a joke or not

[stark furnace]

it has to be

[stiff stag]

Look at their other "suggestions". Pretty blatant troll making joke posts.

[proper mango]

to be fair have you seen how everyone talks to eachother here? Ive never seen a more toxic community for such a "wholesome" game

#suggestions message

Hey youre onto something bro keep cooking

[bitter totem]

why would a jetpack be in a mythological viking game

[proper mango]

Why would a goblin?

[arctic wharf]

In a fantasy survival games taking inspiration from viking mythos?

Hmmmm, I don't know. How many other fantasy games, films, or anime do I know of that use the goblin trope 🤔
Can't think of any...
Well I'll be.

[proper mango]

Hook, line and sinker.

[arctic wharf]

Find myself to be decently wholesome
Remaining objective to the suggestions posted here, and usually polite.

[proper mango]

Good to hear, emotional intelligence is an amazing character trait not many possess. Here anyway.

[arctic wharf]

Barney is a bit of a troll though, being blatent.

[proper mango]

Oh absolutely but its still rather comical

[arctic wharf]

I admit, it is somewhat comical. Even if not appreciated.

[proper mango]

I mean, catapult with feather cape is close enough

[arctic wharf]

A very silly addition indeed.
That's where we cross the line from realistic to a fantasy game designed with only fun in mind. Jetpack started to push science fiction though.

Arguably magic is a fine line, and its just about theming.

[hearty finch]

i am an abstract thinker, you are not. and thats ok!

[arctic wharf]

[hearty finch]

why would magic be in a viking game?

[granite geyser]

Then this has to be the very first game community you have ever seen

Literally

How weird that people like what the devs intended and they want them to keep it that way.

Shame on us for liking something those people dislike. We should agree with them blindly obviously

What does that have to do with me? I barely paid attention to that one

[proper mango]

Nope, been in many over the years, ive literally just watched a guy get bullied out of the server after his first 10 minutes? It costs nothing to show kindness and speak to people with a modicum of respect.

[granite geyser]

Incorrect, I am the representative of half of the community and I speak to you as the representative of the other half.

After all, you are speaking very broadly. I assume you know every single user here

[proper mango]

Its an interesting one, it could be a genuine issue thats worthy of a discussion but a select few will just echo words of the devs and borderline bully others.

Honestly, after seeing the way derek speaks to people here and gets away with it from smiffe ill happily accept a ban from here. its an evil place full of hatred. I was honestly debating a modmail or emailing them. ive never seen anything like it. (that doesnt go unpunished)

Yea, for the most part I would agree. Just a shame its taken too far sometimes

[lament zinc]

Just going through all the above, I can only wonder what name calling has to do with discussing suggestions. Can anyone explain that to me? Or is this question "toxic" too?

[proper mango]

What?

[rose swan]

If you feel there’s toxicity going around, best to report it and disengage with it. This particular channel often has some heat… but there’s a lot of good conversation here too

[hearty finch]

exactly, any suggestion is a good suggestion

[slate spire]

I’m gonna chime in here and say, the call out on @obtuse wolf was very strange and representative of how I’ve felt the last few days trying to get involved here. And building on previous ideas is helpful to seeing what the person is referring to.

I can see @proper mango and @stuck flame’s points, but also feel like the jet pack troll isn’t going to help either.

There is definitely a bully/sarcasm atmosphere here that’s been hard to interact with.

To that point, I’ve been working on that list of topics to try and help people come in and know what’s happening.

[hearty finch]

again, the game has stuff like eitr refinery but we cant have jetpacks. make it make sense

🤷‍♀️

[slate spire]

Flying breaks the game

And if you need to fly, there are codes very easily available to do it.

[proper mango]

Theres a uhh mod for airships vro.

Thank you North, glad more people have noticed it.

[granite geyser]

Depends, are you agreeing or disagreeing with them?

If you disagree, you are a terrible troll and a representation that only trolls dwell in this community

If you agree, you're a good user

[slate spire]

I disagree with all flying suggestions, but I don’t need to tell them they suck or comment on “good thing the devs don’t agree with you.”

[granite geyser]

Other than the 100 reasons stated "why not" of course

[stark furnace]

Yea exactly, just 👎 and move on

[granite geyser]

Then you don't need flying in the first place. Case closed.

[rose swan]

#suggestions message Here’s something I’m sure we can all agree on 🤔

[granite geyser]

That's like saying "we didn't need better weapons after meadows, but we got them"

Nope

[stark furnace]

well seeing there is one 👎 i don't think everyone can agree

[granite geyser]

Ah, so slowly descending into actual trolling then

[obtuse wolf]

yes as a greatsword enjoyer myself

[slate spire]

Common Topics:
The following list are general topics that have been submitted multiple times and in many ways. We implore you to search for these key words in the #suggestions and #suggestion-discussion chats before submitting your unique suggestion. I’d also encourage you to vote on the previous topics to add your voice to them.

♻️ Additionally the recycle icon is listed next to particularly jaded topics that sometimes result in unintentional vitriol from responders.

Bears
Berries ♻️
Mounts/Horses
Lox & Carts
Taming
New Food (Potatoes ♻️)
Diving
Mist Clearing ♻️
Inventory Slots/Adjustments
Ashlands is too hard ♻️
Ashlands is too easy
Iron is over used ♻️
Forsaken powers
Skill modifications
New NPCs ♻️
Blocking (Tower Shields ♻️)
Damage/Hit Boxes
New weapons/armors ♻️
Inventory management ♻️
Recipe organization/searching
Altering colors/dyes/looks for existing armor
Fog of war/map changes
Loading screen updates

[obtuse wolf]

in relpy to this

[slate spire]

I’d appreciate honest, troll free additions to this list. I’ve been scrubbing back through November of last year compiling things. And will continue further when I’m not working from my phone.

[bitter totem]

Ashen cloak being black or Lox Cape being black would be so 🔥 with Fenris armor but Ashen cloak needs to be a bit smaller & not go around your players neck as much

[slate spire]

Flying is on my second: never gonna happen list. Along with terrain mods and water changes.

The goal is to use helpful searchable terms so people can look back and see what people have already said in a subject

Reading back has given me a lot of perspective. And helped to see that people agree with many of the things I’ve said, even if the current readers in that moment might not have.

[rose swan]

The only issue is 1) people will have to find the list somehow, and 2) even if it was pinned, most people don’t check the pinned messages 😅

Very well done though, nice list!

[slate spire]

Or best results, have offered something I hadn’t thought of and I like it better ha!

[slate spire]

The pinned list is something we can point to, as helpful contributors, so we don’t have to tell people why their idea got voted down or recycled. We can foster a friendly conversation with this

[summer canopy]

So why is there so much pushback on changing tower sheilds? I'm curious

[stiff stag]

Usually the ideas aren't very well thought out or are just plain unbalanced. People also commonly don't understand how/when they are appropriate to use, then suggest changes that would make them be used for situations they aren't intended for. It's pretty clear a lot of people want them to change, but the means of doing so aren't very clear or agreed on for what would be the best route.

[slate spire]

Thank you for that reply. I haven’t seen a moment where I would use a tower shield. Maaaybe 3+ player teams.

[stiff stag]

I feel it's just that the use case is way more niche than other shields, and the movement penalty alone pushes people away from using them altogether.

[lament zinc]

You may add to that, that people play other games, see something being used in there and want Valheim to have the same thing.
Basically asking for Valheim becoming a similar game like others and because of that loose the uniqueness it has right now.
And just as an example: the crafting from chests have been asked for countless times already. And I'm sure it will be asked for even after 1.0

[rose swan]

That’s a good way to put it. I don’t often use tower shields. I think it would be interesting if they were the only shields capable of blocking ‘large’ creatures, but I can see why that would be problematic.

I wonder how well tower shields would pair with rat pot? 🤔

[stark furnace]

would just be a worse option when compared to normal shields lol

[stiff stag]

And it's not just the uniqueness/identity, often times the desired properties fit for the game they are pulled from, but don't quite translate well into the games they are suggested for.

[slate spire]

First, I want to agree with the sentiment about people bringing things from other games and that doesn’t help the game remain true to valheim.

Back to tower shields, I remember when I saw the staff of protection upon release, it was a two handed weapon that blocked 10x on parry. We plaid through three infested mines and I just tanked the hits while my two teammates dove in for attacks. It was glorious.

That got nerfed so fast.

I wish tower shields could provide a bit of that. You’re slow, you don’t have to have timing, but you’re not there to do big hits.

They could stay for multiplayer use. You can take the multiple hits or keep a monsters aggro (not suggesting a new meter or mechanic) but attacking is basically nulled.

[bitter totem]

Staff of Protection is WAY too good, needs a nerf.

[slate spire]

I said no!! Lolollll
But I also wouldn’t say no to it… lol

I think it’s proximity based. If you’re running around other biome mobs, they usually break to them if they’re closer and you sprint away

[stiff stag]

It's smell based.

[slate spire]

Aggro is too complicated and I would NOT suggest building a system for multiplayer situations. Valheim doesn’t multiplayer super well

I’d hate aggro while solo-ing because I couldn’t pawn mobs off on other mobs ha

[bitter totem]

wdym it doesn't do multiplayer super well? it's fine??

[summer canopy]

'A brutal exploration and survival game for 1-10 players, set in a procedurally-generated purgatory inspired by viking culture. Battle, build, and conquer your way to a saga worthy of Odin’s patronage!'

[slate spire]

Yeah it’s fine.
But how the game loads information leaves it open for lagging. Especially in big fights. And with more than 3 players. Anytime I’ve played with more than 4 people on a server, (especially in Ashlands a year ago), monsters don’t load, people are stuck in weird animations, boxes don’t load in for for everyone, things get… weird. At six players the game is unplayable in my experience.

*We all have the latest in gaming computers and strong networks.

[random monolith]

truly the multiplayer in this game is the most atrocious I've ever seen
I wish it were better because the game feels like it was made for multiplayer

[slate spire]

I was SHOCKED when they focused on multiplayer in Ashlands without changing any of the things mentioned above.

[random monolith]

Surely it can be done in a way that doesn't result in so much lag

[slate spire]

I was on a server that built too large, admittedly, because we didn’t know any better. (Valheim loves a tall build, not a wide build fyi) and our entire town was decimated by raids that we couldn’t see to the point of us basically disbanding.

[arctic wharf]

Idk... most of the time sure, but doubling the levels the run skill has?
How is having 100 more levels of run skill that continue to bloat XP required to acquire them too in any way good?

Would make the skill out of place as the only skill with 200 levels, and already achieving 100 in any skill takes an obscene amount of time AND skill to not die along the way.
So many issues with skills that this would just exacerbate.

You can say jet packs isn't a troll suggestion... but come on... jet packs? Really?
Flying is already a terrible idea for most games, and weather some magically themed object or a high tech jet pack doesn't change how bad for gameplay that would be.

So to this, I politely argue there can indeed be some pretty bad ideas as far as addition to valheim is concerned.

[bitter totem]

me and my friends have different gaming pc specs and we did not run into any of these issues? maybe it depends on who loads in the 'master chunk'? I've heard that can affect performance quite a bit

[arctic wharf]

Will agree btw Rianu while not always in the wrong can be condescending and rub many the wrong way 👀

His approuch... is questionable without debate.

[bitter totem]

yea many people in this server are pretty rude in their arguments tbh

w no repercussions it seems

[arctic wharf]

A few at least yeah.
Some don't stay very objective or at least polite in their replies.

[slate spire]

Heard and my opinion is the same as yours on those items. But the hostility in here was daunting and unnecessary

[arctic wharf]

I try not to be a rude regular
Ofc as any have been rubbed the wrong way once or twice.

[arctic wharf]

I can agree

[proper mango]

fizzy lifting drink that lets you float for a short while....🗣️

[granite geyser]

Jetpack, could be a hook and rope instead which you sling onto a pole or something that lets you manoeuvre around more freely to aid in building. Or even could be a scaffolding of sorts.

That's literally NOT a jetpack...

Which I'm sure the suggestion was NOT about

[arctic wharf]

I can't exactly make the jump from jetpack to those other additions 😅

Perhaps if their suggestion was more broad?
Example: add an item to the game that allows us to fly upwards a bit, or gain altitude.

Though similar, it's generic enough to discus into.

But ofc I still think any form of flying is a no go for valheim. Perhaps another way to "gain altitude" within more controlled parameters?

Technically, no

It is a controlled form of falling

Not trying to be rude or argue, ofc.

[slate spire]

Do you see how flying is game breaking? Are you meeting us halfway in that?

[proper mango]

like a uhhh geyser

[arctic wharf]

That could be cool.
Enshrouded, a similar with actual gliders, now has updrafts which are fun for exploration.

I still am not sure that is the best addition for valheim though.
I think remaining on the ground is better for the overall exploration and discovery.
I also think some more attention needs to be given to making sailing a more fun long term activity throughout the experience.

[stiff stag]

"Rules for thee, not for me".

[slate spire]

You have been heard. 😊

[bitter totem]

if u press Z in debugmode u activate fly mode, and the enemies straight up cannot see you regardless of what the enemy is, imagine flying with like a jetpack the devs would need to code detection stuff for that

[arctic wharf]

It would have to be end game if considered at all, since it breaks a lot.

[slate spire]

Any input on shields?

[arctic wharf]

Admittedly, the catapult + feather cape combo can break a lot....
And portals break a ton

[bitter totem]

why does catapult + feather cape break alot? (I haven't used it)

[arctic wharf]

Gives you height, and/or distance if you start from an elevated position.

You basically almost fly, though not quite since there is yet to be a way to gain more altitude after launch

You become a human missile

[bitter totem]

sounds interesting

[slate spire]

I’ve heard that as well. But despite the knowledge have run into the same issue time and again. Send one person in to load yagluth, then teleported in five people… and proceeded to get yeeted by invisible meteors
☄️ 🫥 🪦

[bitter totem]

😦 send the person in with the best pc... idk

[slate spire]

Sorry, I thought that was implied. We did send our best. Like no one ever was.

[bitter totem]

😦

[mellow crater]

I don’t really care how the devs will implement it: there is a ton of ways. My example is nothing more than an example. Some people suggested locked dungeons, underground tunnels, carnivorous plants, etc… I can imagine others possibilities right now if you want.

The important part is that the game ask for the whole power it gives us before ending.

[wanton atlas]

Read the pinned posts in this and #suggestions channel.

Make your own suggestions and dont start to reply in #suggestions chat.

Hijacking other users ideas like that is not what you should do.

[wanton atlas]

And I do remove all and any replies in #suggestions. But just as scales days. There is'nt people to 24/7 monitor all channels. That's why we have modmail if something happens

[stiff stag]

And if it's something mundane to most normal users here (like replying to other suggestions with your own suggestion), it's not likely to be reported/brought to the attention of the mods.

[languid ibex]

I take part of many discord communities, I would say that this community offers plenty in the name of engaging, rewarding, and analytical discussions! It can be easy to get caught up with the differing opinions, but ultimately the community here has passion and everyone's unique approach should be welcomed... unless it's breaking any rules of course.

[wanton atlas]

and taking into consideration other peoples feelings when they suggest something.
I don't appreciate someone taking over my own ideas and run them as their own.

"oh nice, you got almost the same ideas as me. but a slight twist" ?
then post your own idea so people can see there are 2 versions. don't hijack someones suggestion and take it over

[stiff stag]

The only defense I can see for replying to another similar suggestion is if you don't want the original to be hidden from view in favor of your own. Not referencing or linking the original can also be a form of hijacking an idea, just depends on the circumstances. That being said, the majority of the time people aren't doing it with genuine intent and does come off as them trying to take over the idea more than anything. This is unfortunately very common with highly popular ideas; people see an opportunity to gain quick attention from someone else coming up with the idea/putting the work in for them and jump on it.

[wanton atlas]

another issue is that it creates discussions in the #suggestions channel.
which is not intended.
ideas discussion and/or formulating should be kept in other places.
hence we made this channel for that purpose

💡 Add more birds

[wanton atlas]

💡 I like this idea, but also add red, white, blue birds

[wanton atlas]

💡 Yes more birds, but only add red and blue birds

this is how it will start to look like if / when people start to discuss in #suggestions eventually

[obtuse wolf]

okay well i didnt want to keep responding to this but smiffe is just not acknowledging how ideas work, like yes it could be seen as "hijacking the idea" but no idea is truly original and enforcing that would just be basically saying "be completely original in your thoughts or just do not share them" and me replying to the message was just to expand on the idea and give some credit for them helping me create my idea and in my case i personally think my idea was different enough and expanded more on the idea and warranted its own suggestion rather than just some off message here that would be buried easier.

i understand for simple expansions as you have shown examples of smiffe but i feel like if it expands more creatively on the idea i really dont see the issue

ofc i respect ur decision to that rule and ill follow it but im just sharing my thoughts on it

[wanton atlas]

Your idea may been original or deviated from the other persons post. I'm not trying to argue copying other peoples ideas. That's human to do and like you say, (even tho I will put an * Asterix here) most ideas are comming from somewhere. Some are originals tho.

What I don't want is a bunch of replies in #suggestions since it clutters the channel up and breaks the posting format.

And it's completly fine disagreeing with me.

[obtuse wolf]

yea ofc i agree with no cluttering the suggestions channel as you mainly would want to see stand alone suggestions but i do think having a few suggestions just credit should be fine

[wanton atlas]

having a few suggestions just credit should be fine?

sorry but I can't make out that part :/

[stiff stag]

There's a right way and a wrong way to go about crediting people. Replying to another suggestion while posting your own suggestion is the wrong way to go about it, since it creates the problem smiffe mentioned (where it just becomes a discussion channel with people replying to each other instead of using the channel made to hold those discussions). Could simply say "Inspired by so and so's post", or if discussing ideas here first, "thanks to so and so for the help refining this idea", which makes it so it's not in the form of a discussion/thread. Hopefully that explanation helps clear things up.

[obtuse wolf]

i mean like when a reply to a suggestion is mainly for expanding more/being inspired and not replying with ur example of something trival like "💡 Yes more birds, but only add red and blue birds"

[obtuse wolf]

i suppose ur right but just replying is just quicker and lets people quickly see the idea some is deriving from

[languid ibex]

I think what Smiffe is saying is that there's no grey area in this case. Your best course is probably to mention the person that made the suggestion, and suggest adding what you come up with. I've done this to almost all of my suggestions, because input is important and not everything can be considered by 1 person.

[wanton atlas]

"building on X persons idea" isn't a bad way to do it.
but replying in #suggestions will create clutter and will also make new users to the discord server thinking they should reply to posts there, rather than using the discussion channel for talking.

[languid ibex]

Yeah, however carefully it's approached, credited or constructive it is, it could still signal that in general it's an okay thing to do. So it's just best not to, or it could stand to become like Smiffe said,

💡 I like this idea, but also add red, white, blue birds

[wanton atlas]

Personally I want people to write out the entire suggestion, so I (or whoever reads it) don't have to go being a detective in trying to find the entire idea

hence it's better to write a complete suggestion (and credit the OG person if you choose to out of curtesy)
than doing replies and such

💡 Just like @ Omni suggested, but I also want green, yellow and torkoise birds

va

💡 I Want red,gree, blue, white, yellow, pink and Turkoise birds (Credit Omni as OG suggested but I added to it)

[long anvil]

Appreciate*

[vital berry]

So You don't like "replies" we got that.

Yet you mention "building off 'so and so's idea: <idea>"

What's the difference between saying "building off of" and then the name, or saying, "Building off the replied suggestion: <idea>" or "Building off so- and so's idea <message link> <then idea>"

[vital berry]

Example:
Building off the replied message above <idea>

or

Building off Smiffe's idea of talking in suggestion-discussion versus making a daisy-chain in suggestions
#suggestion-discussion message
<idea>

[light swan]

Hello. I've read various suggestions about experience gain. As much as i love Valheim, the way you gain experience is its biggest flaw, and create absurd situations where unlocking a new weapon type mean starting from 0, with best option to level it being killing greydwarf or skull, because xp don't scale.
Bow is the worst. Charging your shots hurts you in the long run, because it kills things faster but grants the same exp. Was there any discussion on this topic, or words from devs ?

[languid ibex]

#suggestion-discussion message Here's the most recent conversation concerning skills

[short wing]

With a reply or a mention to someone's suggestion, you first need to go look at the original and then go back to the other post to see what is added or changed.
If it is a reply to a reply, you need to look further and compile all the ideas to finally get the suggestion.

With making a full suggestion that includes the parts of the suggestion you are taking from you only need to read one post, saves the reader some time and possibly searching they might need to do or people might even not take the time to read the suggestion because they don't want to go search for it.

Acknowledging where the idea comes from is also a good idea since the person won't feel like their suggestion is being hijacked.

[crimson dock]

Are people being credited in the game when their idea makes it in that it’s such a big deal? The idea is to put forward suggestions that you think would add to the valheim experience not bicker over who said what first

There is literally a ♻️ voting option that you can use to state an idea has been put forward before

[short wing]

No but people do sometimes feel their idea gets hijacked if someone posts a similar one that has some parts that come word for word from their idea or just only slightly altered.
If the original idea gets less votes than the one that comes after that is basically the same that might be like throwing salt in the wound.
Being courteous and acknowledging where the idea originated and who's idea you build on is just nice to do.

[light swan]

Skill exp system is so absurdly bad yet the stance is "it doesn't need tweeks ?".
I guess spamming left click on skulls with bow is the intended way of leveling it then.

From what i've read here and @wanton atlas answers, suggestion are not of any use. If its popular but they don't want it smiffe will say they want to implement things THEY like, if its unpopular he'll say its unpopular so no. Wich contradict itself but whatever, being in position of power allow you that kind of things

Basically the whole suggestion channel is just used as a venting ground so other channel are clean, period.

Also, something being popular or unpopular, should not even be an argument. If people knew a shit about game design there would be much less trash game around.

Claiming a skill system punishing you for charging your shots, or for picking up a late-coming weapon, and rewarding you for mindlessely hitting 1st biomes monsters with the weakest attack possible is "good", "good enough" or "don't need change" is straight up scary. It does need changes, objectively. Perhaps you don't have the time to do so, bcs its so weirdly implemented, changing such a simple things would be too costly in time. Happens.

But its objectively textbook bad game design

[wanton atlas]

suggestions are of use

but expecting us to either re-write entire game, or to change from our own ideas and design plans isn't either very likly.
we had a set idea what we want the game to be.

[short wing]

Unpopular suggestions have made it in game as well as popular ones and thinking that Smiffe has the power to solely decide which suggestions makes it in the game is ridiculous.

[wanton atlas]

the discord server have about 1% of the entire valheim userbase. and if a popular idea get 50 upvotes. (just a number) that is still a very very small number of players asking for a feature

but we do listen if people suggest things in #suggestions, and people also ask on our other platforms like Steam forums, twitter, instagram, email etc

but you are not wrong when you say. This channel is to make other channels free of ideas being posted in them.
Discord as a social media platform needs some kind of order and each channel needs a topic.
sometimes you need to direct big topics like suggestions, LFG, bug reports and other things into separated channels not to clog up entire channels

[light swan]

And how do you expect to get everyone involved ? You can't, and you have to rely on statistics. Perhaps peoples around the suggestions thread and steam reviews does not perfectly represents the playerbase, but they are still a pretty accurate representation considering the amount of player you have. Its pretty safe to extrapolate the relative interest each post/review get to the whole base..

And while in other topics, i understand changing things can be costly, here i dont get it. Skill system is here, its just a matter of when and how much you gain exp. No need to change it to a "on enemy death exp gain" wich would pose many problem (exp sharing, AI kills).

Just gives every monster a multipliyer based on its difficulty and stars, and multiply xp gain when hitting it by this value.
There's not thousands of enemy, surely adding a variable to each isn't much trouble.

Then you just have to handle edge and specific cases (bow charging shots basically) and make sure every weapons gets xp scaling more or less with their atk speed (but that's already the case i believe) and done. Now people can charge their bow shot to gain xp and need to slain high level monster to reach high level

[wanton atlas]

I think I wait for Kamap to respond

[short wing]

You make it sound so simple and if it was that simple they might just go ahead and change it but it isn't that simple.

Rewriting xp gain would take a whole freaking lot of time, it isn't just adding some code somewhere.

It would be akin to rewriting the book you are almost done writing.

[languid ibex]

@light swan

Claiming a skill system punishing you for charging your shots, or for picking up a late-coming weapon, and rewarding you for mindlessely hitting 1st biomes monsters with the weakest attack possible is "good", "good enough" or "don't need change" is straight up scary. It does need changes, objectively. Perhaps you don't have the time to do so, bcs its so weirdly implemented, changing such a simple things would be too costly in time. Happens.

But its objectively textbook bad game design

I think you're looking at the simplistic introduction of skills a little too deeply, it's not meant to be something you're focusing on, or progressing with direct intent. Every weapon is more than usable at level 0, utilizing meads/set bonuses/forsaken powers/enemy weaknesses will always be important. Giving played a false sense of importance surrounding skills could encourage players to get the wrong ideas about whether or not they need additional advantages.

[light swan]

Unless someone show me the code and how it is so specifically implemented it would be akin to "rewriting a book", sorry i can't believe it. Im a dev too, perhaps im bad at it then, but i can't see how adding a factor to a xp gain would be akin to rewriting the whole book. Im dead serious, its such a simple and costless operation there's no way

[arctic wharf]

You are not alone in thinking skills as a systems truly does need to change and is the weakest link in valheim.

Even to my own shagrin though, it is the devs call at the end of the day.

Been many a debate again and again ofc.

[languid ibex]

There are definitely some alterations and improvements that could be made, but the underlying fact that skills have very little effect on gameplay is important to consider.

[light swan]

But i specifically don't want them to overcomplicate it and deeply disagree with anyone who wants. I just want it to be simple and logic.

Kill harder monster = more xp. Want level up or catch up death loss ? Kill harder monster.

And not being punished for charging bow shots. Really, just QoL and logic, nothing new and fancy

[wanton atlas]

so the fact that (X) exp gained per hit doesn't sit well with you?
should a player get exp only on kill? so the difrence in monster level matters more?

Atm, more HP = more hits = more experience still does what you want. but not like you wish it did

[arctic wharf]

Will say all suggestions I have made never intended to bloat the system and have it neccessarily do more.

I simply wish for it to function better as the supporting background system it is.

[languid ibex]

I understand, but that knowledge can only benefit if you wanted to achieve a higher level. (Smiffe beat me to it)

[arctic wharf]

Many people default to XP gain, but the real problem is just how much XP required bloats as you get into higher levels.

I had made a suggestion regarding this ofc. 🫡

[languid ibex]

Also, in regards to the 'It's not hard to do so they should do it' point made earlier. Following that logic can lead to chasing your tail in development, publishers and developers alike have a set budget for development time up to release. Playing with that time in any way, no matter how easy it would appear to be, could change the course of development and delay full release.

[short wing]

I agree that the skill system can be better.
It would take time that I'd rather see them spent in finishing the game.

To change the xp gain they'll have to go back and revisit each monster, decide how hard it is compared to other monsters, find out a number that represents that.
Then see if a certain weapon makes that monster easier or harder, finding out another number to represent that, then check if the attack used was from a special weapon move or a bow that was drawn longer, finding out another number to represent that, then having the game calculate all that and reward you with x.
They'll have to do that for every monster and weapon combination there is.

Now that is one weapon against 1 mob but what with multiple mobs, certain weapons make dealing with mobs easier so they should than get less xp than killing the same group of monsters with a weapon that isn't really for dealing with groups, find out numbers to represent those outcomes and so on.

Then see if the other skills that are there don't need a rework either, deciding how that rework should go, changing numbers, finding where the code needs to go and so on.

[arctic wharf]

My skill related suggestions, just so anyone new here knows what I have suggested.
#suggestions message
#suggestions message

[light swan]

Not on kill, it would be problematic : how to handle multiple people hitting a mob ? What if it dies from other mob or AI ? This is something i understand would be hard and costly to implements, for what ?

More HP, but your weapon hits harder. So the optimal way to gain xp is to nerf yourself by using bad weapons. Wich is weird, no ? Not that many peoples will bother with it, but it is weird.

And it leads to where farming is at : slain low level monster with low level weapons to gain xp. IMO it be more natural to get rewarded for killing harder monster with better weapons.

Farming weapon skills is slightly part of the game : you lose xp when you die, some boss requires specific weapons (mace against bonemass), and some weapon are available later (at level 0).

Just make it logic so the casual player is rewarded for doing what is logical : killing hard monster with strong weapons

[arctic wharf]

This is very true

[wanton atlas]

it is wierd yes. using the worst weapon in game, to farm experience points for levling skills

[arctic wharf]

They only need to go back and do all that with monsters IF they are adjusting the XP you are gaining.

If however it the XP needed to level which should be far easier and faster, then they can leave XP gained on action alone. 🫡

[slate spire]

It could be biome based.
When you’re using appropriate weapons, monsters are all 2-4 hits. But killing a fuling or seeker is a LOT scarier harder and should be rewarded as such.

[short wing]

True but that doesn't solve the "use worse weapons so you get more hits in" problem.

[arctic wharf]

Hence the drop-off of certain things no longer giving XP once you hit certain levels.

Aka, using a crude bow might be nice to get to level 20, but then it gives no XP for levels 21 and beyond 🫡

This is also in my suggestion made, btw.

Don't worry though. I will halt here with the comments.
Had my time in the debate so won't drag you through it again.

Love ya smiffe ❤️

[light swan]

Sorry is that sarcastic ? I meant it, farming xp with low level weapons seems weird and cou ter-intuitive to me

[arctic wharf]

Read post I just did hehe ❤️

[wanton atlas]

oh no it's not sarcastic

it's observing how it works and can be exploited

[light swan]

But that's no excuse for doing nothing. Food was changed and alot of peoples didn't understand why it was such a priority.

Its a matter of how much (time/money) it cost to what it brings.
IMO the current system is too flawed to ignore, and the simple and very low cost changes could be enough to make it good enough

[arctic wharf]

Promise you smiffe is genuine and not being rude

[languid ibex]

It's the best excuse for doing nothing you could have in an industry that's paying you for your art tbh.

[arctic wharf]

I am inclined to agree that the current system is flawed enough to merit it, and could do valheim a lot of good.

But at the very least it's impact on gameplay is not very big (as intended), so it's also not the end of the world if it gets left as is.

[languid ibex]

Don't play with the people supporting you, and don't take their support lightly by wasting time/money.

[light swan]

Well for me its observing how it works and nerfing yourself to benefits from it. Like how i casually hit mobs wich half charged bow shot at best just so i dont get underleveled for later content - wich would make specifically bow hard to use since level make it scale exponentially (damage up + charge time down)

[languid ibex]

Trust me, I'm all for some improvements with skills, we've had this talk a few times now, but I've also been in the pressure cooker where studios & backers are screaming for a full release so future projects can begin.

[short wing]

Or something like if you are in the meadows all the weapons give exp, if you are in the plains only swamp, mountain and plains weapons give exp and so on?

[arctic wharf]

Very true, ofc this is way many creative projects such as games dream of not being beholden to any shareholders or financial backers.
They dream of being able to take ad long as they want.

I do think valheim has an advantage here with all they made from that huge amount of initial sales, but its not infinite money ye.

[arctic wharf]

Hmmm, I am not sure what you mean but sounds a little complicated.
Perhaps a langthier explanation

[languid ibex]

What if I drag some Lox to the Meadows, do I gain nothing in this system 😭

[short wing]

What would shooting a lox in the swamp from the meadows do?

[languid ibex]

Crash the game ofc

[light swan]

Well i just think the skill system should be so simple you don't have to bother with it. And sadly actually its so weird that if you ever need to level up something (new weapons or to compensate xp loss) you need to get involved with how weird it is and doing weird uninteresting things. Like how you were hitting rocks with a woodstick back then. It was nerfed bcs it was stupid, but how is that different from hitting skulls in a blackforest spawner with a woodstick when you have plains stuff ? Its the same shit. One could even argue "hitting a rock" was taking avantage of the game but eventually it got nerfed for reasons.

Actually leveling frost staff is basically hitting golem in moutains for 0 damage, not so much different from hitting a rock. Dev must have agreed with that at some point since they removed rock farming

Just factorize xp with monster difficulty and weapon tier, and handle bow charged attack case. No more

[languid ibex]

The good news is, you don't ever "need to level up something." 😅

[short wing]

I mean if you kill a mob that belongs to the plains biome with a weapon that is meadows tier it wouldn't give exp, but killing it with a weapon from the same biome or 1-2 biomes prior would give exp.
So to stop the gaining exp with low weapons shenanigans.

[arctic wharf]

Is a little convoluted I feel like, since that is a lot more checks, but in a way that still works.

[light swan]

I don't agree with that, crossbow is borderline unplayable at low level and farming it is boring as hell. Its very slow, deals too low damage, and is extremly long to level up

[languid ibex]

I mean, if you're checking the mobs in the code, it could be done a little simpler imo

[light swan]

Hitting bonemass with level 0 in mace hit like a wet noodle too

[languid ibex]

Yeah I don't agree with this personally, crossbows felt a little overpowered for me almost immediately, and I have 96ish skill in regular bows.

[light swan]

It is good at some point, no need high level (25 30 is good enough), but level 0 its slow as hell, deals low and is very slow to level up (even naturally, without intentionnaly farming it)

[languid ibex]

Mistwalker was the first sword I'd ever used, and I beat The Queen at level 0 with no real difficulty outside of learning the combo timing.

[bitter totem]

My biggest issue with skills is how long it takes to max them, and if u die u lose 5% of ur skill. At lower lvl this doesn't mean too much but at lvl 100 losing 5 lvls is a big deal.

[short wing]

Sure but locking it behind levels, isn't a good solution in my opinion.
I like spending some extra time in some biomes and I will get to certain levels with weapons which will lock me from progression because I need to get the weapon from the next biome to progress my lvling but what if I don't want to do that?

[languid ibex]

That can be changed with a modifier, but I agree that all skills shouldn't take a hit the way they do, I freak out a little bit watching my fishing take a massive hit 🫣

[short wing]

Probably, there are a lot of ways to achieve things.

[arctic wharf]

Another common complaint with the skills system, and why one of my two suggestions has to do with skill loss.

[short wing]

Something along the lines of the last x skills used take a hit or the x amount of skills that are the highest take a hit.

[languid ibex]

Yeah, but I don't mind the skill is a skill approach ultimately. It's like using a training sword to spar with an opponent. Still plenty to gain from that.

[languid ibex]

I believe ZionE wrote something out like this that would work nicely.

[light swan]

IMO maxing them should not ever be a goal or casually reachable. I like how it is currently, how its soft capped by your hit/death ratio. Just make the exp gain natural. Or to reverse it : don't punish player for playing naturally.

Currently you are being punished for charging bow shot, for using higher tier weapons, for hitting higher tier mobs. Doesn't sounds right to me

[arctic wharf]

That is the point of locking it behind levels though... so you also can't just sit in plains from level 1 to 100 with a crude bow 😂

Just like anything else in valheim, would need to progress in overall biome progression.

Think we can all agree grinding skills is not fun gameplay also

[short wing]

Up to a point were you are so much better that said opponent, you'll need to go find a new opponent that is on par with you to keep on training that way.

[arctic wharf]

I think reaching max level should be casually reachable as you play from start of the game to end of the game... Just not all within the first few biomes.

[languid ibex]

I suppose, but mastery is at it's core is just repeating the same actions.

[light swan]

Perahps at the very end then, honestly with how Valheim is designed, the less i bother with skill the better it is. But playing higher difficulties force you to bother with it and its ugly

And the whole bow charging shot thing 🤡

[languid ibex]

I don't think it's punishing, you're just not going to progress as quickly against harder opponents. You can accelerate this by training on easier opponents.

[short wing]

Not with a crude bow because that is a meadows weapon and won't give exp in the plains ^^
I don't really have a problem with sitting in one biome and leveling up a skill.
What I do find weird is the best and fastest way to level a weapon skill is using the first one of its kind and go wack a mob with lots of life over and over again, like plinking bonemass with crude bow and wooden arrows.

[short wing]

Bruce Lee: I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.

[bitter totem]

go hit fader with a wooden club

[arctic wharf]

I find a problem with it though, since grinding skills mindlessly is terrible gameplay and it should not be possible for players to subject themselves to it. 🤭
Need to save players from themselves haha

Weather crude bow in the meadows, or crude bow on fader.

[short wing]

If it is their shtick to go wack mobs with a stick over and over again, I would say let them but like ppeldo says it is weird that playing naturally, "punishes" you in giving you less exp than using worse weapons so you get more hits in.

I would love to see a change but not if that takes too much time away from finishing the game and tweaking more important things.
Changing the system from what it is now to something more logical would take lots of time.

The skill system isn't all that important, it does make an impact but not a very big one most of the time.

[arctic wharf]

Why I often say I just try my best to forget skills exist.
Thinking about them just reminds me of their like 5 glaring flaws.

[arctic wharf]

I say don't let them.

Remove that terribly unfun gameplay entirely so no one ruins their own experience.

Save them from themselves

[arctic wharf]

.

Yeah, thankfully skills as a whole don't exactly have that huge of an impact on gameplay and you can get by completely ignoring them.
For that reason alone is why I let it slide at the end of the day

[short wing]

Nah let them have their stick wacking shtick if they want.

[languid ibex]

What if the first time you beat a boss, you gain 5% of all skills across the board. Potential to neutralize losses on a death while fighting the boss, rewarding if you never die, and the untrained skills don't feel like a sudden restart to some when training new weapons or skills.

1 time for each boss only, no chaining into other playthroughs. Would be abused.

[arctic wharf]

Ehhhh... idk, I feel that would have little impact in the end with skill loss being what it is.

[languid ibex]

10%?

😆

[arctic wharf]

10 levels, or 10% xp of your current level?

[short wing]

5 / 10 levels is how I read it.

[arctic wharf]

Same haha

[languid ibex]

I would say 10% of the current levels untrained.

[arctic wharf]

Yeah, teeny tiny impact then.

[languid ibex]

So it's a reverse of the death calculation.

It'd still net 10 levels across all level 0 skills with 1 boss, which could be handy.

[arctic wharf]

Hmmm, well... idk still.
I think that is weird and in the end it gets undone if you die a few times.

[short wing]

So if you have 0 you get 5 / 10 levels, if you have 10 levels you get 4.5 / 9.

[languid ibex]

Yeah that's true but it'd still be extra compared to what you had before 😅

[arctic wharf]

Not to mention it would have the inverse problem skill loss has... as when you get higher level you also lose more levels, but for this when you get higher level you also gain less levels.

[arctic wharf]

Yeah, I get that.
Sadly it's just a case of more isn't always better.

The core problems with skills would still remain to terrorize us. So to speak.

[languid ibex]

Yeah, I wouldn't want players to skyrocket in skill, just help some along with universal skill gain for untrained skills.

[arctic wharf]

Don't think I personally would go for such an implementation. Would mostly just muddy the waters more.

But it was an interesting thought.

[languid ibex]

Thanks 😅

[arctic wharf]

Just politely voicing my own opinion ofc 🤭

[languid ibex]

It crossed my mind so instead of giving it more thought I just floated it for opinions, and I agree it could just make people question the system more.

[short wing]

Yeah I would rather tie death penalty in with last x skills used or only x highest skills get docked.
So the few levels you have in swimming / fishing other seldomly used skills aren't docked but the ones you frequently use and will probably level up again the fastest are docked.

[arctic wharf]

#suggestions message

This yeah? 😁

[languid ibex]

Definitely would prefer this, thankfully I have the modifier for my solo character.

The chance of losing all my items is punishment enough for me thanks.

[arctic wharf]

Agreed, for now at least.

[short wing]

Something like that, yeah.

[languid ibex]

Losing all your gear as a solo player can mean hours of grinding in itself, I turn skill loss to it's lowest setting for that reason alone.

[arctic wharf]

Another thing I suggested... unlink skill loss from items dropping on death!
This way I can finally disable skill loss without losing the other punishment

[languid ibex]

So true, I would definitely do that.

[bitter totem]

That would make much more sense

[slate spire]

Yes please

[unique cove]

I don't much like the skill loss

You get your farming up to 100, how many clicks does it take to bring it back to that point after one death?

[arctic wharf]

At 100... a whoooole lot

Is too many reasons for my two skill related suggestions

[unique cove]

I think passive skills shouldn't ever lower,

Fishing
Crafting
Cooking
Farming

[eternal storm]

I'm not suggesting to implement this, but just for the sake of discussion I really like this mod, Slayer Skills, that keeps track of trophy drops per creature and makes you more efficient vs those creatures in proportion to the level gained, for example you can be a 5 level Greydwarf Slayer. Imagine if instead of leveling weapons you leveled specific creatures getting XPs for kills: killing old/weak creatures wouldn't do you any favor with new ones, and would be easier to deal with after you overprogressed them.

[arctic wharf]

That's an interesting concept, though I don't foresee such a change ever happening.

I want to try that mod sometime now though 👀

[unique cove]

What about a similar mechanic to Fallout 4's adrenaline system?

Kill things = slight damage bonus

Sleep it off, it goes away

Could be a different kind of death penalty

[eternal storm]

I don't think having multiple systems to get damage bonuses is a good idea (min-maxing hell), unless you're suggesting to use that instead of skills, which would go totally against their intended purpose: reward players who don't die.

[unique cove]

Skills aren't a reward at a certain point, they're a need

Ever want to try Ashlands at 0 run, 0 jump?

[bitter totem]

with some specific challenges u also NEED 100 skill like fighting Fader with no food/potions/magic etc etc, I wish skills weren't a thing tbh

[granite geyser]

Very far from impossible

[arctic wharf]

Well, those are abnormal runs so

[granite geyser]

I wish people stopped thinking skills are any kind of super essential thing you must grind to not die rather than the optional nice-to-have they clearly are

[arctic wharf]

Don't think skills are ever neccessary, I mean I get by ignoring them so...
We are never going to be stuck at level 0 ofc.

[eternal storm]

I said "intended" purpose. Anyways, if you have 0 in such basic skills you keep dying all the time, which the devs seem to want to punish, so too bad for you.

[bitter totem]

they are super essential in some categories like Riding, Fishing, Crossbows, and some others which are actually only usable at max skill

[granite geyser]

Your examples are three of the most optional skills in the entire game

[unique cove]

Every weapon skill is "optional" but you have to use some weapon....why not crossbows?

[eternal storm]

Only if you don't care about them, which could be said for any skill to be frank. In fact there's at least 3 types of skill: the one you can live without (such as fishing), the ones you will level no matter what (like run), the ones you need to level because devs balance late game biomes accordingly (weapon skills). It's not that simple.

[unique cove]

+141% damage for weps at max level

Having a max skill more'n doubles your damage

Then there's bows...

[granite geyser]

Literally the only difference is you kill things faster.

[eternal storm]

But the game is still beatable without maxing weapon skills, which makes them not that mandatory. Magic, though...

[unique cove]

And stagger them faster....which can easily save your life

[granite geyser]

Doesn't mean they're not any less optional.

Even weapon skills

[eternal storm]

Of course, it was part of the "only if you don't care about them". If you don't care about any of them, they're all optional. But if you do you're in a world of pain, because some are almost irrelevant until you level enough.

[slate spire]

Side bar:
Would there ever be a world where mod writers were paid to adopt their code? It would have to be cheaper than starting from scratch?

[unique cove]

"The max skill increases DPS by +623% (7.23x) due to increased damage and reduced draw time."

-bows

[slate spire]

This has largely been my strategy. Occasionally my group compares our stats and go, “oh! My swim got up to 12!” And then I die and i get to say, “wow, it got back to 12!” A few weeks later.

[eternal storm]

And bows are still usable at low level, unless you're really into min-maxing. This game doesn't work like that, is balanced vs mid level players even in late game biomes (so far). And, again, it's meant for players who don't die. It's a challenge, not a participation trophy. Whether it's right or wrong, it is what it is.

[arctic wharf]

A little more nuanced than that. Since killing things faster = less time and opportunity for them to hit you = less chance of dieing.

[unique cove]

There's no balance for a 6X difference

either you have that and are overpowered, or don't and are underpowered

[slate spire]

I’d argue nothing is unusable at start. More realistically, it’s like getting the feather cape. I can play without it. It’s just reeeeal hard to adjust to not having the feather cape once you’ve jumped off a misty peak or get in the habit of jumping off the third story to get down to your forge area… 🪦

[unique cove]

Or you had it and have to "earn it back" by plinking bonemass a couple hundred times (might as well just devcommand it back)