suggestion-discussion

[pliant sorrel]

Also not enough undead enemies for weapons tbh

[arctic wharf]

I know the perfect way to have more skeletons...
More skeletons of fallen people in the snow 😂
there! mic drop!

we can find skeletons buried in almost every biome, or at least skeletal remains. So that is always fine

[languid ibex]

You mean things that are weak to spirit damage or?

[pliant sorrel]

Yes or nuetral

[arctic wharf]

being real, I also think that we have far more than enough undead mobs... and welcome anything else with open arms

[languid ibex]

I could be wrong, but isn't that the damage type that has the most enemies weak to it?

[pliant sorrel]

Or just let spirit damage be more affective against some more enemies

[pliant sorrel]

Ummm I don’t think so

[olive yacht]

whether it is or not, it's definitely counterbalanced by also having a lot of immunities, and i think that's what makes it special

[pliant sorrel]

Pretty sure it’s the least or near that

[pliant sorrel]

You have a good point 🤔

[grand sable]

i mean....most things in the swamp, the cultists, growths, yagluth, almost everything in the ashlands...

bonemass i think

[pliant sorrel]

Imo there’s more enemies than enemies weak to the attack type

[languid ibex]

The closest competitor would be poison, but it's still a lot already

[olive yacht]

-# the only swamp enemy that's weak to spirit is the wraith, but yea it has a lot of weaknesses

[pliant sorrel]

But then again I’m kind of wrong, because there is still quite a lot

[hexed jewel]

spirit is weird in that it tends to be pretty good--even without weakeness, damage on top of base--or just literally, isn't effective at all

[pliant sorrel]

& poison weapons.. hardly any & the ones there are aren’t that affective

[grand sable]

are we talking about weakness or wether or not it actually applies to an enemy..

[hexed jewel]

most types of damage, you get at least some damage, modified by weaknesses or not

[grand sable]

it affects many enemies cuz there's so many gawdamn undead in the game

[olive yacht]

poison has 2, lightning has 4, frost has 8 (technically 9), spirit has 9, fire has...16 (technically 17)

[grand sable]

weaknesses?

[olive yacht]

yea weaknesses, i'm saying spirit is indeed high on the list

[lofty wave]

What’s with the technically numbers?

[olive yacht]

seeker soldier butt

only the butt

[grand sable]

poison should be turned into "acid" and have more creatures weak to it ✊ 😔

[pliant sorrel]

Yes please 😭 or just more damage & weakness can be enough too

[lofty wave]

It doesn’t need to be turned into anything, just make more enemies weak or not immune

[grand sable]

acid is cooler than poison

[pliant sorrel]

And MORE POISON WEAPONS 💯

[pliant sorrel]

Acid & poison are very different though

[olive yacht]

imo the way to fix poison is to put more poison damage on weapons that deal poison

[languid ibex]

Yeah, niche damage types should be rewarded for being utilized correctly

[olive yacht]

a non-stacking DoT implies that if you let it do its thing, you get more total damage from one swing than you would from another weapon of the same tier, but that's just not the case right now, jotun bane literally has almost the same total damage per swing as mistwalker despite having that huge drawback (the fact that repeatedly hitting heavily nerfs your damage output)

[pliant sorrel]

Lots of stuff in valheim like weapons are well balanced, but poison is so underwhelming

[languid ibex]

I will also say, it is strange that spirits themselves are weak to spirit damage

is it a diamonds only cut diamonds logic?

[grand sable]

poison damage resistance reduction 🗣️

[olive yacht]

that doesn't really solve the problem, and it also gives enemies (which are already well-balanced in poison damage) another benefit

[grand sable]

debuffs the player can apply that reduce certain resistance types by like 25% for a short time

and perhaps there is no effect on entities that are immune to that damage type.

[hexed jewel]

make it so that jotun bane secondary throws the axe and anything it cleaves through in the attack 'ray' gets DoT'd

you gotta go pick the axe up--balance, as Odin intended

[lofty wave]

Any secondary other than the one it has now would be good. Axe secondary is awful

[languid ibex]

It's an interesting take, but I would be concerned about how underutilized a debuff like that would go when other weapons are just simply better across the board.

[grand sable]

it works exactly as intended*

[olive yacht]

yyeeepp, i think poison needs a whole lot more than 25% to be worth using

[hexed jewel]

y'all know you wanna throw a cleaving axe that applies a poison DoT to everything in its path

[grand sable]

maybe like 50% at most.

[hexed jewel]

what could possibly be more viking?

[languid ibex]

I think it could be argued that the abomination should be weak to poison and not fire, fires should and could be extinguished immediately in the swamp's rain/pools. It would make sense for how the ecosystem deals with such a thing as well.

Poison is good to use on unwanted growths

[olive yacht]

oh yea abominations straight up soak in that soggy soil til you wake em

[rose swan]

Like in general 1-handed ace secondary is bad? Strictly speaking combat I’m guessing?

[lofty wave]

1.5x damage and knockback

[grand sable]

Its a tool.

[lofty wave]

It has a separate skill for fighting and woodcutting. Pickaxes don’t because they’re just a tool

[grand sable]

yeah well its weird for that ig

[lofty wave]

Pickaxe combat skill when?

[arctic wharf]

Axe is vikings bread and butter... so it makes sense to me.
That being said, spears were used a whole lot more than many would realize too because... well, they are very effective

[grand sable]

my point being the secondary attack shouldnt be replaced with anything lol

[arctic wharf]

Sounds like they just wanted it buffed up some 🤭

Them being, blobicycake*

Technically axes have completely different chop attacks for combat vrs harvesting, in addition to the secondary attack.

[rose swan]

At least the two-handed axe has a really cool secondary! Now if only there were more of them 👀

[wanton atlas]

how do you secondary a 2 handed axe? 🤔

[fleet lintel]

You could maybe make time to discuss one of the most frequently brought mechanics of the game. If you’re going to add portaling metal and difficulty sliders you could tweak a mechanic so encourages people to play in a way that’s fun, rewarding, and from what I can tell the way IG intended people to play, as opposed to trending toward tedium

[wanton atlas]

seriously no

why ?

[fleet lintel]

Because it would make the game more enjoyable?

[wanton atlas]

if you are going to start to discuss core mechanic and systems of the game on a regular basis. you will eventually start to question your own creation

and also. a company should move forward. not re-do the core

[lofty wave]

Battleaxe secondary attack

[fleet lintel]

That’s a pretty big leap for “the skill system could use some tweaks”

[wanton atlas]

it don't need some tweaks

[grand sable]

do you play the game dev guy? 🥴

[fleet lintel]

Not according to all of the people who have played it and discussed it in your games community

[wanton atlas]

you mean all 13,000,000 players?

[fleet lintel]

No, I said the ones who have played and discussed

[grand sable]

now what

[rose swan]

The battleaxe secondary is the quick poke, it’s really neat! ||I can see you’re having another discussion though so I’ll go to the sideline lol||

[fleet lintel]

Most of the 13,000,000 have no involvement here.

[grand sable]

ohh one of those kinds of interactions, whats the topic.

[wanton atlas]

The amount of people who say it's good as is, and those who don't care "because it is what the game developer wants" are so much higher than those who complain and/or wants tweaks, is massive

[fleet lintel]

The amount who don’t care enough to say anything about it is massive.

[wanton atlas]

it's less than 1%

[grand sable]

what are we talking about anyways

[fleet lintel]

But this is a channel you, IG, made to get feedback. It comes up in your own feedback and suggestions channel regularly

[wanton atlas]

also people wants bicycles added to valheim. that is also regularly posted

[grand sable]

are 🐴 and 🐻 still banned words for automod

[wanton atlas]

never was

[fleet lintel]

Horses maybe compete with skill system tweaks. But bicycles 🙄

[grand sable]

bear

[wanton atlas]

you have a lox to ride

you have asksvin to ride

[grand sable]

horses don't fit anywhere no matter how much people like horses.

[fleet lintel]

Horses are a stylistic choice, wouldn’t add anything categorically to the game

[wanton atlas]

don't even mention horses. then people will start the same old "but boar and deer" discussion

[grand sable]

meadows is too early, there are no forest horses, there can't be swamp horses there can't be mountain horses, lox are in the plains, there probably couldn't be mistland horses, theres askvin in the ashlands, theres no polar horses.

[fleet lintel]

The skill system has a concrete effect on how people play the game.

[lofty wave]

Meadows has nothing to explore for and the next three biomes are full of obstructions for getting around

[grand sable]

there could be caveats like undead horses in the ashlands or skyrim-y horses in the deep north, magical horses in the mistlands but thatsss whatevs..

i don't think normal horses can fit anywhere.

[rose swan]

So yeah, in conclusion, battleaxes are cool 👍

[grand sable]

yes actually

if anyone explained to me what this other argument was about i might have taken a side 🫢

[fleet lintel]

The people here who suggest a change to the skill system are pretty numerous. The people here who says it’s good as is are basically rianu and Derek. Not that you can apply small data sets to large ones, but you can extrapolate if you’re going to say the people who complain here is vanishingly small the people who actively say it’s fine here is even smaller.

The only thing you really know is most people don’t care enough to get involved.

[grand sable]

ohh the skill system, yeah it could probably be more fleshed out.

priorities are what they are, its not the end of the world right now it is adequate

i think i would rather see the deep north (or some other biome filled out more) before the nuances of the game itself are modified much....i mean maybe there could be a combat/sea update before hand..

[arctic wharf]

That only is relevant for meriting the addition of a regular animal here and there... should it be horse though? I would 100% hope not myself since it's far more out of place than say... another game animal (fox, 🐻, squirrel, duck).

[azure rapids]

no point in suggestions smiffe hates doing his job and the devs are lazy

[grand sable]

okay then.

[grand sable]

aside from whatever that is, i think normal animals could be added and modified....misthares moment.

lightning bears in the deep north

[grand sable]

if you're being sarcastic you ought to establish that because in texting, unlike irl, you don't have tones of voices.

[arctic wharf]

That's one of the few good examples of putting a spin on existing animals yeah.....
And its a game (hunted) animal, rabbits/ hares.

[grand sable]

i have never seen it done wrong really?...

[fleet lintel]

It’s a false flag op. Smiffe ran a dummy account to go ad hominem on himself so he has an excuse to disengage (sarcasm)

[azure rapids]

what yall yappin about

[grand sable]

idk what are you yapping about..

[wanton atlas]

no but it's 00:20am here, and I don't got energy to even try to convince you anymore

anything you say, goes against what going forward with a game means

[grand sable]

🫂

[fleet lintel]

Really? Thats a claim

[amber wind]

The skill system was brought up because we were talking about tower shields not being worth it because they don't seem to bring enough of a benefit versus normal shields and their ability to parry...then someone mentioned that the tower shields ability to block gets a lot better with better blocking skill, to which I checked my main toon (which uses a regular shield almost all the time and blocks and parries regularly) and how his blocking skill is like less than half the weapon skill, which seemed a bit out of whack, hence the discussion then moved on to how the skill exp accumulation seems kind of messed up.

[grand sable]

i never liked tower shields

[amber wind]

And now we've come full circle. 😉

[grand sable]

i mean they look cool...

[fleet lintel]

The skill system would be great. If the game began and ended in the meadows. the game and gameplay are far evolved since the meadows though, and the mechanic doesn’t keep pace. Obviously you’re keen on denying that but, but I’m hardly the only person to make the observation, and you know that you know it.

[lofty wave]

Could tower shields pause an enemy’s stagger decay for a few seconds when blocking them? This would allow us to use damage to stagger enemies that are just too tanky for it right now because their stagger decays too fast. Decay would resume immediately when the enemy is staggered so this won’t make stunlocking them any easier.
Also more block armor (somewhere between normal shield parry and buckler parry in the same tier) would help because especially in later biomes there’s just too many attacks they can’t block.

[amber wind]

I feel like the added blocking ability isn't enough to offset the lack of parry...but I gave up on them rather early in the game. Do the later tower shields provide more blocking power relative to their biomes? Or does it pretty much scale linearly so like using the blackforest tower shield on black forest mobs is the equivalent of using Plains tower shields on plains mobs?

[arctic wharf]

Valheim is still in early access right... I am not imagining it? 🤭
Before 1.0 is technically the time to make changes to core systems. Fully scrapping them... no, but changes that bring major benefits and are completely merited? Surely yes.
This happened with a few things already such as food in hearth and home. 🫡

[lofty wave]

Later tower shields are about as disappointing as the early ones
Except serpent scale shield, that is incredibly powerful even against Fader because of its resistance

[wanton atlas]

no

[amber wind]

Hmm...my basic feeling is that if systems are in place and they get closer and closer to 1.0, the less likely it will be changed. That's just been my experience with most games in EA.

[fleet lintel]

Most big changes that have been made seem to be ones that Smiffe is completely against. So I’ve hope for the skill system yet.

[amber wind]

huh, we made one and put it on an item holder because it didn't seem that useful...I'll have to revisit it.

[wanton atlas]

I don't think you realise how few we are, and doing major overhaul to core mechanics would set back the game, years for all the changes some of you want. (changes that the majority still don't want)

[arctic wharf]

what is this then, alpha, beta? it's pre 1.0, so it's something.

[lofty wave]

I tried them in a playthrough before ashlands. If used right they aren’t quite as bad as everyone says they are, but still generally worse than other options or no shield.

[wanton atlas]

Early Access

Game had it's Free alpha, Closed beta stage

[arctic wharf]

some systems though could benefit from changes now far more than way back then as we now have far more of the whole picture in place and can make sure everything plays nicely from the start to the end of the game. 🙂

[fleet lintel]

A skills system that awards more for more advanced biomes would take years? I’m no programmer but that seems staggeringly inefficient.

[amber wind]

Yeah, I agree. As we've progressed further, it feels like the pacing/advancement of the system gets poorer and poorer. In the beginning, everything felt good, the pacing, the discovery...now that we're hitting Mistlands, the pain points are starting to show...

[arctic wharf]

you just said no, so yes it is in early access still hehe. no worries, I will let this topic rest again.

[wanton atlas]

there will be no change to skill system

end-of-story

but go on debate it and ask the modding community to make some amazing mods

the vanilla game will however not change skill system and how it's setup and functions

[grand sable]

no change...?...thats a bit dramatic..

[arctic wharf]

I 100% expect it though.

[grand sable]

i think it would be logical to keep it in the realm of possibility

[wanton atlas]

I'm not sure how many tiemes I can try to explain this. but it's always seems to fall into deaf ears or people forget all the reasons why I keep listing

[fleet lintel]

I’ll just keep hoping you’ll eat your words

I’d hoped you’d be right about metal never being portable, but look where we are now.

To be fair, most of the reasons you list are totally unsubstantiated and seem like gross exaggerations

“It would take decades! We would never finish if we addressed this!”

[wanton atlas]

I just give up

there is no trying to explain to someone who refuse to listen

[grand sable]

i don't really understand what the big deal is with the skill system anyways 🤔

[fleet lintel]

Smiffe, you have the deafest ears I’ve ever appealed to

[grand sable]

was hearth and home not a decent sized overhaul of systems

[rose swan]

Maybe this is a good time to step away from the keyboards/phones and cool off, for everyone 🤔

[amber wind]

Don't shoot the mesenger.

Yeah, I think the skill system is okay...not fantastic, not bad, just okay...some might say "good enough".

[azure rapids]

this guy gets it

[grand sable]

It is adequate and gets the job done but to the point where i would be sad if it wasn't revamped a bit.

[amber wind]

Could it be improved, yes. Will it be improved...probably not...and less likely the further we close in on 1.0. That's just my guess of course.

[arctic wharf]

heh, no need to drum up negativity more now. hush hush hippy 🫡

[amber wind]

For the tower shields, I think making them slower to react, but can withstand a lot more damage before being broken would be a great way to balance them and make them more useful...at least from my experience with them in the early game.

Will this happen, probably not, but I'm going to say it anyways. 😉

[arctic wharf]

In my around 2.5 years here, it's one system of the few I have seen discussed again and again with literally all agreeing it could use some work.
That aside, I see it on youtube comments as well, and some of the discords I am in.
I think that sort of proves there is something not working with it haha

In the worst case though, it's still serviceable, and good enough I guess is good enough.
Staying respectful and objective hehe
IG makes the calls for their game, and we all respect that.

[amber wind]

Now, excuse me I need to make some modder friends.

[granite geyser]

You could finish the game without doing any of the quests because they don't contribute a whole lot at the moment.

@ashen wolf Yes... that's... the entire point...

You literally described the definition of what "optional" is. You shouldn't need to be forced into finding her and doing her side quests by giving her a more important purpose. As if Haldor wasn't enough and now you have bog witch

[amber wind]

I have to agree with Rianu on this one. Searching for Yagluth was painful enough.

[granite geyser]

And despite that, they still gave her more purpose due to the farming set

Imagine if they gave her a megingjord-level item and now you really feel like skipping her would be a massive waste

[amber wind]

Maybe what the game needs is more pointers or hints for the location of the optional merchants and Yagluth...like a giant sign "Eat at Haldor's (500 km-->)"

[finite vapor]

The skill system is awful as it stands currently, if i want to level something up quickly to get that %dmg boost up i need to make the bronze varient and farm elder/greydwarves for hours rather than fight a challenging mob.
Blood magic and crossbows are RIDICULOUSLY slow and painful to level and should be doubled or tripled.

[lofty wave]

Why should all skills increase at the same rate?

[finite vapor]

Why should some be cancer to level up lol what's the point

[languid ibex]

Maybe the merchants could inform of eachother at certain progression markers? Found Hildir? She also has a map on a table that reveals the closest Haldor location after you beat a certain boss. At that point it's still optional, but not so easily missed.

[languid ibex]

I believe what was said above is that they aren't meant to become a focus or be necessary for progression, and it'd cause other systems to go underutilized if it were too easy.

Like set bonuses, mead, and forsaken powers

Not to mention the stats on equipment granted by progressing

[stark furnace]

thing is, with good enough skills you really can just entirely ignore set bonuses, meads, and forsaken powers

but you can also ignore every buff in the game and still be successful so idk (i don't really have a position)

[languid ibex]

If you want to put in the work on leveling stats to insane heights, you can feel like a god in Valheim, which is fair enough imo.

[arctic wharf]

my main issue with them is that they give an obvious incentive to spend tens of hours engaging in the dullest gameplay for huge bonuses... rather than being tuned appropriately and well-integrated enough to positively contribute to an actually fun gameplay loop...
They work well through black forest at best, then fall off and eventually start being a negative.

[stark furnace]

i think what people also get confused on is the fact that in order to be relatively successful in valheim in terms of progression and not dying you need/should do prep, and people interpret that you also should prep your skills alongside bringing potions, rested, food etc

[arctic wharf]

I have said enough though, more than actually haha.

[stark furnace]

Idk i just think it's an interesting topic

[granite geyser]

They already do anyway. Pretty much every action that involves raising a skill gives you one point or less

[arctic wharf]

I don't mind chatting anytime, game design is what I hope to learn more about after all. but don't wanna go too far either with pushing it. will just keep it to chat for chat sakes now

[granite geyser]

THAT INCLUDES CRAFTING FUCKING TROLLSTAV AND A FLINT KNIFE

[arctic wharf]

sort of yeah, just some actions that give XP are harder to repeat as frequently. They do all need the same amount of XP as well 🙂 (all 20,300 XP)

[fleet lintel]

Can the game be played with the skill system that exists currently? Of course it can. But despite smiffe’s protestations about how impossible everything is, it seems like a minor overhaul would be fairly low hanging fruit with very tangible rewards in terms of gameplay

[arctic wharf]

I feel similarly.

[fleet lintel]

Suggestions being implemented has never been on a “is this strictly necessary” basis. Nor should it. If someone who actually programs games wants to do a breakdown on the man hours and why it’s prohibitively difficult and or time consuming then I’ll shut up about it

But until then it seems like one of the few widely agreed upon areas of glaring potential for improvement.

[arctic wharf]

I also felt most things get shut down pretty harshly. but, once again I also don't want to be equally as aggressive with trying to push opinions and suggestions.
It would be nice if it was talked about a bit sometime in an interview or something though, just to get more dev perspective on what their thoughts on this topic is. I did say / agree in thinking it is a topic worth that. 😁

I could go way further into the rabbit hole, but trying to remain respectful and professional haha

[fleet lintel]

I don’t feel like calling smiffe on his logical fallacies and poor track record of predicting community suggestion implementation is pushy or aggressive.

Smiffe is just another guy in the discussion with an opinion.

[arctic wharf]

as long as it's respectful in delivery I suppose. Don't want to do anything timeout / ban worthy ye 🤭

[fleet lintel]

If smiffe wants to ban me for disagreeing with him he could. Seems like pretty poor community management, which is his job. But there doesn’t seem to be anyone looking over his shoulder

[arctic wharf]

I didn't imply that, just have to not go off the rails during the debates yeah. Had my fair share of chats and disagreements with smiffe.

[pure vine]

:^(

damn i got busy and missed the skill system discussion

[arctic wharf]

not too much of a discussion, and pretty heated.

[pure vine]

Oh, okay.

I think what I could say was already said; skills now are tedious to level up, don't track with the increased level play of the game as the player progresses to bigger numbers, and some are even more tedious to level up compared to the rest.

reading through this conversation is not helping my esteem of the development team.

Has this matter been put to a community poll? I'd recommend polling to help consider the returns of this time and work investment. If it's not as popular as I think, fine, that answers it.

[arctic wharf]

not much of the community is here in the discord though. I was wondering what the comments and response might be if one of the main youtubers made a video on the system and talked about it some though. 🤔 Jiroc perhaps. Could be insightful for us here, weather the majority agree's or disagree's with the general sentiment here.

[pure vine]

Content creators could be helpful in gauging response.
Naturally no poll will reach everyone, we kind of have to accept that.

[fleet lintel]

Just take solace in the fact that smiffe just playtests and does “community management” he isn’t driving game design decisions. At least not if you compare his stances on suggestions against the patch notes

[fleet lintel]

Heated? Nah

[arctic wharf]

a little bit hehe

[fleet lintel]

Maybe it’s a generational perspective

[pure vine]

I notice Smiffe often seems to downvote my QoL suggestions.

[fleet lintel]

Eh, he’s 95% downvotes

[arctic wharf]

I could tell smiffe was feeling upset some 👀
but grinds my gears also how hard we get shut down... even if they are within their right to make whatever decision about valheim they want and it is generally nice we can even talk to any dev directly like this haha

eh... I just try to think about both sides of the coin

Valheims loss in not hearing the community out in the end.

[pure vine]

Am I really so alone in thinking melee attacks need like 5-15 degrees of up and down aiming? I've got some clips of hitting terrain while I get smacked in the face by my target I could clip together to help my point while I bitch about it.

[languid ibex]

I wouldn't be so quick to disparage Smiffe tbh.. having a broader perspective on development and advocating for an easier development process typically go hand in hand. Opinions are just that at the end of the day, and if it makes sense to do something in the future, the team at IG aren't the type to ignore that.

[fleet lintel]

Spears and atgier vertical hitboxes have been a really highly suggested topic

[pure vine]

It's QoL things like this that I'm pretty sure are basic and wouldn't introduce exploits, but I'm starting to wonder if it's really not as popular as I think it would be given how many years it's been and they still don't want to do this.

[fleet lintel]

Also one smiffe is apparently against for some reason.

[pure vine]

I've been playtesting for a solo dev and the guy does work on his project, he's fairly consistently adding gameplay for his driving sim passion project as an individual coder with some outsourced modeling help.
I notice some objections along the line of "it would take work and isn't absolutely necessary."
And I don't think this logic or approach is helpful if I'm understanding it right.

[grand sable]

thank goodness for mods

boutta add armor slots istg 🗣️

[pure vine]

I understand time/effort investment compared to an expected return in value for the gameplay experience, but some things I feel are being ignored that would be very beneficial to have.

I'm glad to have some QoL things added though, I do remember the time before auto stack into chests.

[fleet lintel]

I don’t think I’m disparaging smiffe, just citing history. Smiffe immediately falls back on “the game will never get finished, if we do this we have to do everything” a little too often

[grand sable]

well i hope its not something where we already paid the money and so our opinions don't really matter that much because its too late to refund 🥴

[languid ibex]

There's an example I often point to when players raise the idea of upgrading a game to a newer engine. The amount of time and effort spent doing such a thing might only result in a slight uptick in population/enjoyment. It's why 70% of the world still runs on systems utilizing Windows XP.

[arctic wharf]

that flip out on slots felt PTSD induced... had me worried genuinely that I made a real no no assumption, even though I did not mean to imply that haha

[grand sable]

i am jumping to conclusions for the sake of it but i've felt that way before with other games

[languid ibex]

@fleet lintel This is slightly disparaging to be fair.

[fleet lintel]

Well no, he has stated that those are what his jobs are.

I guess you could count the quotation marks as disparaging. But that’s a little thin.

[languid ibex]

Suggesting it should be a relief that this is all he's claimed to be responsible for is what is disparaging.

[grand sable]

well he doesn't represent 100% of the devs decisions nor is his status as a dev negligible....there can never be black and whites

[arctic wharf]

I am inclined to agree, which is why I was trying to tone things down just a bit. Though, I also won't be one saying that we should never question the devs either ofc... just have to not be mean about it. 🙂
It's not always what you say, but how you say it.
Need a bit of a thick skin ofc on the internet, and text does a super poor job of conveying your intended tone haha

[fleet lintel]

I disagree, it amounts to stating that smiffe has been against plenty of suggestions that ended up being implemented. And given that some of the people here seem to think smiffe downvoting their suggestion is an official no from the dev team I don’t think there is harm in stating it.

[languid ibex]

It's not necessarily harmful, I am just suggesting that speaking this way is fruitless when we can't fully understand their perspective.

[fleet lintel]

Well, if smiffe was willing to share an actual perspective other than “this is change is counterproductive and impossible,” despite his claim that I never listen to the contrary, I’d be all ears

But in years of talking to smiffe I don’t know if he’s ever bothered to substantiate his claims

[languid ibex]

Smiffe has stated why these things are dangerous to speak about in this very channel, people will take any small piece of information and run to create content about an "official statement."

[arctic wharf]

a fair critique imo too, being honest. hence why I said stuff can sometimes feel like it's being shut down pretty aggressively.

[languid ibex]

There's roadmaps we can't see to consider, conversations we can't hear about to consider, concept arts, and so on.

[arctic wharf]

also fair yeah, I saw that and got bonked for making the wrong joke haha

[fleet lintel]

He’s stated it’s dangerous to speak about suggestions in suggestions-discussion?

[languid ibex]

If Smiffe has the ability to see the massive stack of work on his co-worker's desks, it's going to take some very careful consideration to suggest something else be added to the pile.

[arctic wharf]

this is why though I would love if the team considered doing an AMA sometime before they get too deep into DN... and perhaps talked about some of the more heavily debated topics among the community. It's been a long time.

[languid ibex]

Whether it is or isn't is a whole other scenario, and suggesting something should be only that, a suggestion.

[arctic wharf]

for a dev yeah, since many might take him too literally and as speaking for the whole team

[fleet lintel]

Eh, I don’t need the dev team to waste their time trying to placate their discord

[pure vine]

I believe it should be possible to talk about peoples' gameplay wishes in some form other than hard and unreasoned rejection without giving the wrong idea.

[languid ibex]

Not anything to stand on a box and dispute.

[fleet lintel]

But if smiffe says something I don’t think makes sense I’m going to tell him it doesn’t make sense

[arctic wharf]

not just for the discord, but the whole community to ask some questions before they wrap up valheim with a big bow and 1.0

[fleet lintel]

It’s a discussion, anyone can discuss their perspective. If smiffe doesn’t want to participate in it he doesn’t have to

[languid ibex]

They do try and do this, it's just difficult to cover all your bases in a limited period, and from what I've seen in their creator interviews, they have become quite good at not teasing much 😛

[fleet lintel]

Just because smiffe says it’ll never happen doesn’t mean much. Someone else is obviously also reading and implementing.

[stark furnace]

and the "community management" in air quotes to me implies he isn't managing the community

[fleet lintel]

Yeah, I acknowledge the quotes could be disparaging. I do think his style of management leaves something to be desired.

His engagement in discussions frequently is geared to stifling or halting them

Rather than encouraging community engagement. But it’s not my job to quality control valheim community management

[arctic wharf]

just to be fair though, it's more than many communities will get from most dev teams, and I am sure he is genuine in trying to do his job and part in the team.
Even if we may not exactly agree with how all situations are handled.

[fleet lintel]

I have never said I didn’t believe smiffe to be earnest.

[arctic wharf]

I sure would like not to be yelled at, no no no never, not happening, not going to even consider it even for discussion's sake.... of course

even if it's the topics 10th time for smiffe haha

so I do agree there as well, just to continue "being fair"

[fleet lintel]

I just think it’s odd of smiffe to act like there is harm in discussing suggestions in the suggestions discussion channel.

It’s (the topic of skills) old hat for all of us. It’s not like participation is mandatory

[arctic wharf]

could just be sleepy atm, since it is obscenely late there. this time at least 😅

[fleet lintel]

20 after midnight?

[arctic wharf]

that's super late to be on the clock so to speak haha

[fleet lintel]

I’m lucky if can get my toddler in bed by then after 4 hours of reading and calm music and every other trick in the book

[arctic wharf]

goodness... not exactly looking forward to kids 😅 why is it in my future plans again?

[fleet lintel]

Kids are great man

[pure vine]

eh, I ain't gonna be having kids in this economy

[fleet lintel]

It’s been a blast so far. Even if I don’t sleep very much

[arctic wharf]

😁

[pure vine]

my 35 year old ass is past that

[fleet lintel]

I don’t know, I’d argue that at some point in your life, if you don’t feel like you’ve learned things that deserve to be taught or passed on, you’ve missed out.

Whether that’s passed on through teaching or mentorship or raising kids is one thing

[rose swan]

Kids will absolutely change your life though, so be ready for that lol but yeah they’re cool

A lot less time for video games 😂

[languid ibex]

Haha, having kids at around 35 is the way tbh, anything earlier is like leaving a party early.

[fleet lintel]

Yeah that’s the truth.

[pure vine]

I do think that'd be kinda neat, but I'm not in the life or financial position to really do that. I am not convinced I'd be giving kids a life any better than mine.
and I'm not even happy with my life the way it is.

[arctic wharf]

what a wholesome topic we found ourselves on 😂
They are still in the plans for me 🙂

[pure vine]

I've donated blood though, so that works for me I guess. Recently donated granulocytes for a child in critical pediatric care.

[fleet lintel]

Sometimes I wish I’d had mine a little earlier. But mid 30’s definitely isn’t the worst time.

[languid ibex]

My partner and I plan on having kids within 2 years time, and if we aren't able to, we both love the idea of adopting.

[pure vine]

Adopting sounds awesome.

[languid ibex]

All of our closest relationships are with found family, so it'd be really easy to explain the value of it.

[pure vine]

Still with me mum. I have things I want to do with my life, but she wants to leave the US and I don't even know how to get a job that'll support me, so I'm following her I guess. So my "plan" is on hold

[fleet lintel]

Yeah, I wanted a couple of my own genes just so I couldn’t blame anything they did on someone else’s genetics. But once they are older I think I’d like to adopt

[languid ibex]

Ah, I understand being nervous about that for sure.

[fleet lintel]

Adopting is also fairly expensive. At least in the US

[rose swan]

Had my first when I was 19, wouldn’t say it was planned 😅 had to grow up quick. But now he’s much older, and I just had my second son a year ago. Forgot how rough the baby stage is lol

[arctic wharf]

trying to figure my own shtuff out too... if I am being honest. Need to get my life more on track.
why I joke from time to time with @hireme... 😅 Nothing would make a future more enticing than getting to work on a project you love right haha... could always mod, but free work doesn't exactly help the situation either.

[fleet lintel]

More manageable if you foster to adopt. But also means you might not be who the state ends up putting the kid with.

[pure vine]

I've done a little database modding for Total Warhammer and Creation Kit tinkering with Skyrim. It was all personal projects with a very small scope though.

[arctic wharf]

did a few minor commission jobs on Odin Plus discord for those making valheim mods hahaha
Closest I will likely get.

[fleet lintel]

I’m telling you. Just learn Swedish and apply

[pure vine]

I did do a user request for a unit mod in Total Warhammer once, a small one. Not something I've ever made money with though.

[languid ibex]

That's a fantastic place to start! I got my start with custom maps for an older game I really enjoyed, and eventually was accepted on to a development team I loved just because my style was appealing enough.

[fleet lintel]

Imagine if you’d been in Duolingo instead of listening to me rant in this channel. You’d be fluent already

[arctic wharf]

learning a whole language is no easy feat... especially while already trying to learn more about another language 😅 (Tagalog in my case)

[pure vine]

Swedish?
oh right, Iron Gate is based in Sweden.
mum wants to move to Netherlands

[fleet lintel]

Tagalog is pretty easy

From the people I talk to who know at any rate

[pure vine]

I was on a kick learning Klingon with Duolingo until life events pushed me off my routine and I hadn't the heart to pick it back up. Even the infamously persistent owl gave up shockingly quick on reminding me.

[arctic wharf]

it's not too too hard, just still takes time 🙂

[fleet lintel]

Or had to learn it for their jobs.

[olive yacht]

https://tenor.com/view/what's-this-barn-owl-robert-e-fuller-what's-here-this-is-unfamiliar-gif-17821474186565185401

[pure vine]

oh my gosh cuuute

[fleet lintel]

My toddler is obsessed with owls

[pure vine]

they're so cool until they puke up a mess of hair and bones

[fleet lintel]

Saw a great horned owl in the park a couple times and every time it flew away he was inconsolable for hours

[olive yacht]

and then after that they're cool again

[pure vine]

in the interim period they become briefly awesome

[fleet lintel]

Eh, if the worst thing something does is throw up on me it’s that’s an A+

At least owls don’t have a whole lot of zoonotic diseases. Bird flu maybe.

[arctic wharf]

end of the day, I have other things I have to take care of over learning a language for the slightly better prospect of being hired onto a small dev team, also near the end of their project and not exactly looking to hire.
Why I mostly just jest and toss it out there into the universe on the off chance.

[olive yacht]

one of my cats throws up nearly every day, not very fun but i love her

[pure vine]

ah man. i worked at a zoo doing concessions for 13 years. i'm sad i never got beneifts, decent pay, or anywhere career wise there, but i did enjoy being at a zoo, though they just took their front end service employees for friggin' granted and had us do everything

[fleet lintel]

Diet issue?

[pure vine]

mooood. i always love my furbaby kitties

[olive yacht]

afaik she has a habit of eating too fast and getting too stressed

she does constantly look on edge

-# oop, back in a bit, pony~

[pure vine]

pony?!

[fleet lintel]

Huh, I’d be concerned about daily vomiting. Not sure what sort of work up you’d do for a cat.

[pure vine]

frequent voms, yeah I'd be worried.

[fleet lintel]

Not like they are gonna hold still for a UGI study or anything.

[arctic wharf]

yeah... for sure. Have cared for between 6 to 10 dogs for over 15+ years growing up, and such a thing is never good for any animal. (Family bred dogs and showed them, as their hobby business).

[pure vine]

i've lost too many
to disease and dog owners that never leashed their animals and people hopping the curb with their truck
a whole litter and then some
yeah i'd have that looked at probably.

[fleet lintel]

Getting a feline PPI they’d probably charge out the wazoo for

[olive yacht]

[fleet lintel]

Surprising amount of drugs you can just give the human drug and dose down.

If you know a vet might be worth while asking if they think you could get your cat like, 1/4 an omeprazole or something.

[pure vine]

Ah, I see Scarlet got another new pony pfp and it's also adorable.

[olive yacht]

why thank you~

[pure vine]

Valheim doesn't need horses, because it has me.
And Scarlet.

i'm gonna do it
i hereby claim the title of cutest horse on valheim

[olive yacht]

should i add that to your nickname

[pure vine]

snrk
Sure, why not.

[olive yacht]

-# it doesn't fit, heck

[pure vine]

awwwww

[fleet lintel]

Don’t let smiffe see you’ve added horses to valheim

[pure vine]

skill issue
i'm horsin' it up

[olive yacht]

scarlet's literally on staff~

[pure vine]

By how many characters is it too long?

[olive yacht]

4, more if i add a "second-" because you gotta consider scarlet's here too

[pure vine]

the "acus" may be omitted if that'll do it, leaving only "Shazbot."
but that is also true.
gonna have to challenge scarlet to a horse off

[olive yacht]

she's at the very top (of my head, in my pfp)

[pure vine]

swag <3

squint
ooooh, I see it! She's a cute horse riding on Hugin's head

Also thank 🙏

[olive yacht]

want me to dm the full art?~ cleaned it up a bit earlier

[pure vine]

Oh, yes please ❤️

[rose swan]

#suggestions message we’ve already had one spicy topic of the day, best put this one to rest 😅

[pure vine]

it gets brought up so friggin much and i mean i'm not against it
blueberries seem like a pain in the ass to keep up on sometimes

[crimson dock]

If you forage them whenever you are in black forests it’s honestly no issue

[rose swan]

All I’ll say is this- the berry bushes look extremely nice as decor. I wouldn’t be opposed to being able to buy saplings for like 500 gold per bush- perhaps late game or heck even as a reward from Hildir. Would love to see a new tab ‘landscaping’ in the cultivator menu for all the nice little trees and bushes we see in game.

[stark furnace]

i've said it before and i'll say it again, i find it really amusing the viking knows magic, the ability to plant vines, potion brewing, complex forge work, etc but can't figure out how to plant bushes

somethin about those bushes are just some hard code to crack!

[pure vine]

Base building is a big attraction to the game, so I see how people might want to do some landscaping for their village, castle, house, etc.

[languid ibex]

@pale ocean #building-tips message Here's a great method if you're not aware 🙂

[crimson dock]

Heck even just some basic shrubbery

[pure vine]

https://tenor.com/view/michael-palin-monty-python-holy-grail-knights-who-say-ni-shrubbery-gif-18773179

[crimson dock]

Like there’s so many ways to balance bushes too player made ones could have reduced regen rate etc

too many bushes in close proximity slows down growth etc

the lil trees in plains aren’t plantable right afaik they would be great for base building

[fleet lintel]

As a survival game I sort of get having some degree of necessary foraging. But I doubt adding plantable bushes would break the game either

[crimson dock]

Bog witch could give berry bush seeds to make it at least swamp tier

[languid ibex]

As odd as it sounds, having to really explore for large patches of bushes worth building into a portal chain is what forced me to explore a lot of the forests to completion all around me.

I prefer it this way, and was slightly let down it wasn't a similar situation with the Mistlands mushrooms.

[stark furnace]

nothin would be stoppin you to just ignore that you can plant bushes, or you could plant the bushes for cosmetic purposes and never engage with them

the planted bushes could also just be so low in return on berries or w/e that it wouldn't even be viable to farm them

[crimson dock]

I guess there’s two different camps arguing over bushes, building side and exploring side but it would be possible to find something that satisfies both

[finite vapor]

Bless plant everything mod, glad it's convenient and compatible for what should already be in the game

[arctic wharf]

Could be better reason to explore imo as well... other than barry bushes.

Sadly feasts sort of let me down as the option for using later game food materials for something that still has some sort of use regardless of progression stage

Sooooo... barries uses still falls off into the void like many other resources.

[languid ibex]

Bless being able to mod the game to satisfy those not willing to participate in creative solutions

[stark furnace]

I still like to explore and find berry bushes or mushrooms (with the berserker mead being a thing now) 🙂

[crimson dock]

yes but you aren’t just exploring for berry bushes, the best way is to be efficient about it so you could be gathering core wood and thistles or hunting trolls too

[languid ibex]

Finding a patch of 10+ berry bushes has become a hype moment I won't lie

[crimson dock]

Exploring the structures for free coal and tin and hides

[arctic wharf]

Grumble grumble... would be a lot happier with food if there was just some changes made to keep more of it relevant.
But it's just my own opinions lol.

[finite vapor]

They added way too many new foods and items in ashlands, could really shave off half or a third at least and reuse some old stuff like hare or seeker meat

Royal jelly puffs magecaps etc or even older stuff

[crimson dock]

Ashland’s and deep north serve as their own isolated biomes from the rest of the world so it makes some sense

There’s no hares or seeker in Ashland’s so I don’t think it would make sense for those to be used in Ashland’s tier food

[finite vapor]

Bonemaw and asksvins meat serve too little purpose

Smoke puffs aren't used enough

There's just too many different foods not being used in enough stuff, SO many single or two recipe items

[crimson dock]

And a problem with making early game food more relevant is it then makes it a struggle to juggle between all the different food types

[finite vapor]

But it is that way all the way to the mistlands

[crimson dock]

it serves its purpose as an early game food, with food such as honey staying relevant for long parts of the game

[fleet lintel]

I don’t mind not needing blueberries for my late biome meals.

[finite vapor]

You do tho for the op movement potions kek

[fleet lintel]

I haven’t played a lot of the newer updates.

Oh well. Guess I’ll be skulking around the Black Forest again.

[finite vapor]

Imagine a potion that gives 15% movement speed for 10 min only costing blueberries

[fleet lintel]

Does it stack with fenris?

[finite vapor]

Yes it's literally broken

[crimson dock]

I’m still yet to reach Ashland’s or kill the queen personally I have way too much fun during mountains and plains and then mistlands kinda feels like a slog but I’m hoping it goes better this play through

[finite vapor]

Honestly good call the first 6 biomes are more fun

[languid ibex]

Can literally break your legs

[crimson dock]

I feel mountains is the best designed biome with the plains being a close second

[fleet lintel]

I thought mistlands was a blast.

[stark furnace]

best designed biome gotta be the black forest just think about it

[crimson dock]

I’m glad you enjoy it, I find it really picks up after feather cape but until then it’s dreadful

[languid ibex]

Mistlands massively improved for me once I realized I should be building Wisplight Torches everywhere

[finite vapor]

Apart from the unnecessarily slow copper grind ye black forest is the most fleshed out and diverse biome

[fleet lintel]

Mountains is a real breath after swamps

[crimson dock]

Okay but plains??? Tar pits… lox… deathsquitos, fuling villages, easy metal grind, beautiful scenery

[fleet lintel]

I actually like the swamps more and more the longer I play

[finite vapor]

Plains gorgeous but doesn't have a dungeon and black metal isn't useful enough i feel so it could use a bit more

[crimson dock]

I had a lot more fun with Swamp*** this run than my first but I guess as you learn the game more you find better ways to deal with the problems at hand

I find the lack of dungeon isn’t a detriment to the biome, it gives it a late game meadows vibe

[languid ibex]

I'll never forget traversing plains for the first time, thinking it was going to be easy, and getting 1 hit in my troll fit by a Lox

[arctic wharf]

I just want the resource we tend to farm a bunch of to have somewhat relevant uses throughout more of the game. That doesn't neccessarily mean huge combat buffs and competative stats... that's what current biome food is for.

It could just mean bonuses good for other aspects of play. Hence ofc, the reason for the suggestions I had made regarding both normal foods and feasts

[fleet lintel]

Getting deathsquitod in the fog just trying to sail to the elder has forever left a certain taste in my mouth for plains.

[crimson dock]

Damn your elder was past the plains??

[fleet lintel]

Elder can spawn super far from center, unless this has been fixed

He was way far south and the way I found to him involved a narrow channel between two plains biomes

[crimson dock]

I guess I’ve been lucky cause in my experience it’s almost always been the next island over from spawn island

[arctic wharf]

I vividly remember taking forever to widdle lox to death super early with dark forest tier bow... and then getting lox meat I could cook on a normal camp fire 🤭

[fleet lintel]

But I didn’t know what plains was at the time.

[wet drift]

Generalizing: I think farmables should remain relevant, and scavanged food should be replaced.

The former opens up for more purposeful base areas, while the later prevents backtracking, and a gradual increase in time spent on food gathering.

I've never found myself annoyed about this, so I guess the game intentionally or unintentionally handles things quite similarly to how I want.

[languid ibex]

The true viking's trial

[finite vapor]

Elder spawns in Plains proximity quite regularly

[arctic wharf]

Favorite biome for me too ❤️

Love the atmosphere, sense of discovery, and best dungeons content in the game right now.

[languid ibex]

The Mountains dungeons are incredible, but Mistlands is just a cut above

[arctic wharf]

Frost caves are right behind them in 2nd place for me also... I very nearly mentioned it but didn't want to rant hahahaha

I really want so much more dungeon content.

They would be the content I push for the most if I was on the team right along side content that we come back to past biomes for with items from later on in progression... said content could mostly be more dungeons 😅

Alas, I won't rant about that again haha

[wet drift]

Mistlands feels retroactively worse now that it isn't the final biome.

It is so alien, so mystical, and tucked away in the corners of the map. The wood type bears the same name as the world tree.

So much of it works because the environments up until that point has felt very natural.

Going to mario world 8 after definitely takes something away.

[arctic wharf]

I suppose... that could play a part in why I still love mistlands. Admittedly I have not played since ashlands released.

I will get around to it... at some point.

I keep starting fresh and then it takes ages to get back to the new end game.

[languid ibex]

Ah I've kept the same world since early access and really limited my exploration to allow for expansion, though I did end up with a floating island deep north by accident

[rose swan]

I can hear the super Mario 64 bowser levels in my head now 😂

[pure vine]

we do still need to get mushrooms and a lot of ashlands things are forage only

[ashen wolf]

You can think what you want, but watching the developer interviews they stated that they try to make everything in the game have a purpose that contributes to the next portion of the gameplay. I don't mind if they keep it optional, however, she is currently the only thing that I see in the game that is completely optional and has no other real use to progress the gameplay forward in any capacity other than maybe farming a little faster.

Even if not something that progresses the game, a pat on the back and a shirt that you'll wear .01% of the time is lackluster. Let it unlock even some kind of new table or decorative item at best for each of the bosses. I'm just speaking hypothetically, it could be anything, a secret type of feast, something that unlocks a new potion you can buy, who knows...

[stark furnace]

Also reminder that doing hildirs quest puts you at a huge mechanical disadvantage, not an advantage, zil and thungr raid + geirrhafa raid are the two hardest raids in the game, and never go away unlike all other story raids 🙂

[rose swan]

Hildirs Quest 2- disable the raids. You also unlock more clothes.

[pure vine]

i am kinda sad there's not much reason except aesthetics to wear the shirt

[pure vine]

wait, really? is this something i never heard of?

[rose swan]

No, I’m just being a goober 😂 don’t mind me lol

[pure vine]

Aaaah, I see. Okay, no worries.
I enjoy goobing around every now and then too.

[arctic wharf]

Careful... saying content will come even as a joke can get you a time out

[granite geyser]

Reduced stamina use

[grand sable]

i've been using it like 40% of the time in-game, building and working 🥴

[grand sable]

Man people just recommend the most raaaaandom shit for the sake of suggesting shit huh?

random content in random places with either no reasoning or little amounts of it

i cannot believe what the majority vote on, an ocean boss is seriously not going to happen.....right?....

[granite geyser]

Hopefully. Ocean doesn't have a place in progression

[pure vine]

Oh right, I forgot

[pure vine]

Yeah, I dunno how someone's gonna make a full biome out of the ocean, which is for transit and fishing now, with a boss summon, dungeon, materials, gear, etc. unless they get really creative.

[granite geyser]

Meaning that they could spare themselves the need of getting really creative by simply not making it a major biome.

Also, I hope they take into account the no portal mode and stone portal when developing ocean so you have reasons to sail despite you can portal anything

[wet drift]

Well, I think portal anything was largely made for players that just don't enjoy repeat sailing.

Sailing in general still has purpose, because you need to get somewhere to place a portal to begin with.

[granite geyser]

But on the long-term, sailing becomes completely irrelevant as after placing the portals you won't need to use ships at all

That goes on the opposite direction of what the game tries to accomplish: That things still have a purpose regardless of the stage.

Such as furnaces not processing all metals, old gear being usable to recover your current gear, many late foods needing early ingredientes, etc

[pure vine]

I kinda feel this.

[pure vine]

I originally thought it'd free up more time for sailing to more different places, but in practice this feels more like the case yeah.

That said my friends and I have only recently finished our Plains village

[stiff stag]

That would naturally become the case without portals anyway. No point sailing anymore when you've eventually explored everything already (all that will be left is repeat locations and travel paths).

[grand sable]

I just don't care about sailing....other than fishing for fun..

[pure vine]

I do like sailing occasionally, though the winds spite me often, but the selection of boats could be a bit more interesting than just different ways size, speed, and agility get balanced.

[finite vapor]

Karve is the best boat

Manoeuvrable and easy to carry

[analog moss]

I hear ya. I always have to rememmber to empty my inv before I destroy a longship or drakkar

[granite geyser]

First of all, the point is to add even more stuff in order to not make it feel repetitive

Also, you are assuming the average player will explore even half of the world by the time they finish the game? You don't even have good reasons to explore so much beyond what you need, the point is that they add stuff in order to encourage exploration

[stiff stag]

Perhaps I missed part of the discussion. All I saw is a statement on portals making sailing obsolete which is not the case at all.

[hearty finch]

the portal/boating balance feels good imo. you really only portal around at the very endgame

[fleet lintel]

Alternately, the ocean has a continuous place throughout the entire games progression.

I don’t know if I like the idea of a formal ocean boss. But I could get behind a single, very powerful ocean mob that you had to just sail away from/avoid until you had end game gear/food/ship

[lofty wave]

I’d rather have a powerful mob I’m supposed to kill at the point the game gives it to me

[rose swan]

I can see an ocean miniboss in the outskirts of the world, like a unique serpent or something. But yeah, a standard boss would be strange and underwhelming imo.

[hearty finch]

the serpent is kinda like that for karve

[lofty wave]

serpents are balanced to be killed with black forest equipment

[fleet lintel]

Eh, even in a carve with a fine bow you can just go head to head and ping a serpent to death. A little tougher if you want to drag it to shore for the scales.

[hearty finch]

ya i know what serpents are m8 but they can be scary if you're sailing early and dont have wind

[fleet lintel]

Don’t get me wrong. The first time I went out on my raft and serpent came out of nowhere it was terrifying

[rose swan]

Serpent was indeed terrifying the first time haha

[fleet lintel]

But a mini boss mob to make you feel that way after you’ve gotten bored of the ocean would be very valheim

[hearty finch]

anyway ya something scary on the ocean would be good

[fleet lintel]

Valheim is made of moments like that imo. Serpents in the ocean, abominations coming out of the swamp, gjall sailing through the mists

[hearty finch]

ya

[fleet lintel]

But currently the ocean basically peaks in Black Forest.

[hearty finch]

i was scared af on the ocean the first time i was sailing, and now just dissapointed

i was thinking all the time aight wheres the kraken thats about to 1shot me

especially when i was sailing in deep waters. but nope nothing :/

[lofty wave]

Stronger creatures could spawn with boss progression, like what happens in early biomes at night
I don’t want to run into anything I’m not strong enough for if I’m staying in the right biomes

[hearty finch]

kinda agree but i wanna be scared.. if i can handle everything then nothing is really thrilling

maybe upping difficulty could introduce scary monsters more early on

[arctic wharf]

Sometimes... running into some huge imposing creature that absolutely destroys you can be both terrifying and gratifying once you can finally beat it later in progression 😎

[granite geyser]

I mean it does because what would sailing accomplish beyond transporting stuff? At some point you will reach every island you'll need to reach and ocean is empty so all the travel you will have to do is via stone portals

[arctic wharf]

Main thing that many don't consider though, is that the devs intend for valheim to be a one and done experience, a journey to some end and then you call it complete and put it down. Does not really need to be reason to sail forever in this case, it just needs to provide a worthwhile experience through your time of traveling to each biome initially (and around them), then job done.

Still agree ocean needs some more to it ofc

.
Also...battlepass??? Like cmon people! Valheim is not a live service game and battle passes are just terrible in any game.
🤢 gross

[lofty wave]

What would we even be unlocking? Shield styles and hair?

[rose swan]

Exp boost 😂 only $4.99 a month

[granite geyser]

It certainly doesn't need to be, I'm sure just one update fully dedicated to ocean would be enough to fill it with enough content as to not ask for more.

I don't want them to add 10M things aimed at making them game infinite (that's impossible), just work on the things that have needed work for a long time

[granite geyser]

Troll suggestion, ignore it

[arctic wharf]

Its not the first time either, that's the not so funny part.

[fleet lintel]

If the ocean just got more varied and perilous the further from center you get, much like the land, I think that would be enough. Add in a few materials that make it worthwhile to brave the danger independently from reaching new lands and itd be even better.

[arctic wharf]

I assume it's a joke, but if not...
Just shows how many people are being indoctrinated by big companies to want scummy practices that leach their money from them.

[fleet lintel]

Oh come on. That person has either never played valheim or has and purposefully is suggesting something totally unrelated.

[arctic wharf]

We need like half a dozen more rare occurrences to find, and then 2 to 3 more mobs (perhaps some only appear in further out waters as well).

[fleet lintel]

You may as well suggest penalty shots from half court

Obvious troll

[obtuse wolf]

@solar bloom 💡 👍

[rose swan]

At the last level of the battle pass, you unlock horses ||please don’t ban me I’m sorry||

[pure vine]

karve is my preferred for coastal fishing

[pure vine]

I'm here, so no need for that anymore.

[uneven geyser]

I know that this specific suggestion doesn't get many downvotes when it's posted, but for those that do disagree with it, why is it a negative to decrease crafting station upgrades' placement restrictions?

[pure vine]

I'm also failing to see how being unable to place crafting upgrade items closer to each other is such a necessary thing as well.

#suggestions message
I presume you mean for suggestions like this

[uneven geyser]

Indeed

I noticed smiffe disliked it specifically, as well as those that suggest comfort item radius increase

[rose swan]

If I had to guess, maybe they don’t think it’s much of an issue 🤔

[uneven geyser]

Their game, their choice, but it's such a miniscule, positive change that makes me curious about the reasons against it

[rose swan]

Like maybe it’s not worth it to IG to revisit?

[olive yacht]

i sure love having my hot tub stuffed into the same room as a throne, my maypole (which is an open outdoor thing btw) and a christmas tree

[pure vine]

They seemed to think it was worth implementing in the first place.

[rose swan]

Most of the time I think the improvements are fine, but some of the cauldron improvements are pretty picky.

[uneven geyser]

Totally, because the hoarder lifestile is everything but uncomfortable lmao

[pure vine]

I've suggested larger confort radii before, but it's been a while and I dunno if it's still there. Given how the fire and shelter effect both dictate being comfortable at all, I really see no reason to increase the radius of comfort items enough to better cover the size of house that our fires permit.

[olive yacht]

yea i'm 200% in favour of increasing the radius, 10 meters is stupidly small

[uneven geyser]

People also pretty much always make huge bases

Hell, it's incentivized by the game's marketing and trailers

[olive yacht]

like at least for things like the maypole, which going by its irl use should not be inside a house or even right next to one

you put that thing in the middle of an open space

[pure vine]

Mum likes small, I usually do no larger than the reach of the fireplace. This time around though it's a village.

[uneven geyser]

It's weird having to stand in a specific comfort hotspot to get the max possible timer

[pure vine]

And still, overlapping multiple items in 10m is annoying.

[uneven geyser]

Like, I think it's genius how the game incentivizes base decoration with a gameplay purpose, but it's a bit counterproductive to keep it so limited

[olive yacht]

same on the former, i stuff half the comfort things under the floor

[arctic wharf]

Don't read into smiffe votes too much. Others will pop in the chat again to say so hahahaha.

My last suggestion has 25 👍 and 1 👎
Guess who the 👎 is from

Just, don't read into it too much or worry about it.
End of the day none of this really matters.

[olive yacht]

pretty much no way to make a small interior look good and natural with all of those different things in it

[arctic wharf]

For sure, and forced to all be so close together. That is when you start hiding things beneath the floor

Just as I see you said rofl

[hollow elm]

Agreed, but that's a failing of the game devs. It would have been simple to build new biome build options from a standard template, but it seems like polling their local primary school populations was the priority.

[olive yacht]

"what a cozy home you've got, what's your secret?"
"oh i buried a christmas tree and a luxurious bed under the parquet"

[pure vine]

I'm not totally happy with my hot tub or bed placement, but I think I worked out a compromise with them.

I remember people being annoyed when a comfort rework lowered the max allowable comfort from something like 30 minutes, or almost I think, to now uh 26?

[olive yacht]

ah yea, when carpets were turned into a non-stacking category

[pure vine]

Ah, yes, yes, that was it.

[olive yacht]

kiiinda glad in retrospect, i don't think the asksvin rug and blue jute rug work too well with everything else

then again, could stuff em under the floor again

[pure vine]

It is a good change in concept. But I have felt sometimes the rested bonus is a tad small.

[hollow elm]

If you need to expose toes to a cold floor between hot-hub and bed, it's understandable having your purgatory status revoked and be sent straight to the underworld.

[pure vine]

I have the bed at the corner of a room closest towards the hot tub below a central living area.

[arctic wharf]

I really like that you have options for certain comfort giving objects... but I also wish we could get some more linearly better pieces added again.

Had so many in the first 3-4 biomes, and then the mechanic was mostly just left out a lot in the nearest biomes (likely for fear of inflating the timer like crazy).

At this point just reduce the time given from each level of comfort.
And maybe let each level increase the buff strength...

Then we can finally consider more comfort objects or finally more higher tiers.

[pure vine]

Eh, I probably wouldn't touch the buff strength. A bit curious about how a mead should interact with comfort though.

Doing feast hall things sounds vikingy, but it's not in the game's nature to force RP like that.

well except for the kind of aesthetic element of setting down a huge-ass feast with ten bites worth of food

[arctic wharf]

I just think it growing like 1% stronger with each level of comfort would go a lot further in being satisfying for pushing high comfort levels over 1 more minute to my already 30 minutes of buff time.

[arctic wharf]

We can eat a whole chicken as 1 bite... and still have room for 2 more whole dishes 🤭

Its those viking stomach's ye see

[pure vine]

Comfort and the potency of the rested bonus seems like it establishes the set intended regeneration characteristics for the viking when using the system regularly. I would say it falls under the phrase "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." Balancing relies on it to be the way it is now.
If anything, though, I'm not opposed to using a certain way to increase the duration, as we have feast foods that last 50m and the nature of sea travel takes a long time, encouraging the player to land every almost 20 minutes or so to teleport back home and then back and resume.
I don't think duration modifiers would be problematic to the game's base difficulty; they would just reduce how often the player is encouraged to revisit their home.

[rose swan]

#suggestions message the comfort suggestion 🙌

[pure vine]

There's one. One I had was to tie it to the radius of its "parent" fireplace, but that may be more work than simply raising the comfort influence radius if it's an integer variable that can be amended like it should be.

[obtuse wolf]

i normally just put all those things under my house tbh

theres just too many comfort items that theres not enough space

[arctic wharf]

I am not bashing getting extra time on the buff, I just think at some point finally getting an extra comfort increasing item becomes a whatever bonus because the duration is already super long and 1 minute more is negligible. Does the mechanic need to change? NO I won't be dying on that hill like I had with skills but could the mechanic be better from the change? Yeah, at least I think that it would be a whole lot more tantalizing to get a handful of comfort unlocks from a new progression tier and thus better as a reward system.

only my opinion on the matter ofc huhu

[pure vine]

It's true it does feel like a drop in the bucket sometimes

[arctic wharf]

had this idea far far far in the past too (tying the radiues to one object so as long as other objects are within it's radius, and you are, then you get all of the objects in the buff without having to stand in the perfect place yourself). Wasn't received too well tho.

[pure vine]

"I'd be a lot warmer and a lot happier with a bellyful of mead."

[stiff stag]

#suggestions message the upgrades are already spaced out as they are intended to be, any further ones will be added to the deep north. Adding more sooner either means you'll get upgrades too soon, or you'll have the stations ready way before it's needed.

[rose swan]

Agreed, I imagine they have things balanced the way they’re intended at the moment.

[hexed jewel]

isn't it like 2 more?

although, also, that assumes like 1 more for each level, which STRICTLY SPEAKING, isn't necessary once you we've hit literal end game, because you just need to gate the last 2 or however many levels theoretically/presumably to be available on all end game weapons at the end, behind one level/upgrade (or as many as you want) that is sufficinet for all

or in other words the max level of say galdur table just being raised by 1 item in Deep North to 5 is fine PROVIDED that any and all upgrade and crafting in the future hits max by or before 5--i.e. trollstav level 4 requires station level 5, a hypothetical new DN staff could start at any level, so long as it's level 4 only required station level 5 (which may force some upgrade levels to NOT require an additional upgraded station level to do, but that's the trade off)

point being, there's really no necessity or in-game balance reasons the devs are forced to add upgrades either before or in Deep North OTHER than (presumably) at least more to gate (1) all the currently visible but unobtainable upgrades for pre-DN items and (2) to craft and of course also upgrade all DN introduced items

[finite moss]

Make the amount of coal output from the charcoal kiln the same amount as the input of the smelter, also they should make it so u could upgrade stuff like that so you could get more input and output materials

[grand sable]

If deep north equipment requires another upgrade level, and then needs to be fully upgraded for end-game isn't that multiple station upgrades needed

If thats the case then i really sure hope they get added but..

[finite moss]

?

[grand sable]

if there are weapons in the deep north that are capped at level 3 and don't count as fully upgraded i will be sad

and adding to the two biomes prior just means fully upgraded carapace armour and fully upgraded flametal armour for the biomes they come from, We literally have that with, Padded, Silver, Fenris, & Iron armour....if we put in the effort we are rewarded with the max level thing for that biome...

I think its completely fair

[obtuse wolf]

are u asking the coal input for smelters to be 50?

[finite moss]

If it were to be upgraded then yes i just think that it is kind of stupid that the input for the kilns is 25 then the coal input for the smelters is 20

[grand sable]

that means 4 kilns perfectly fits 5 smelters

[languid ibex]

There's other uses for coal, it's not exactly just for smelters.

[grand sable]

100 coal for 100 coal slots

[finite moss]

Still the main use

[finite moss]

Good point but do u also get what i mean?

[languid ibex]

Main or not, it's not the only consideration to be had.

[obtuse wolf]

i think it being 25 is great bcs that means u get spare coal so then if u just wanna quickly cook smth you can without needing to make more coal

[grand sable]

Theres some things so familiar to me in the game and so adequate i don't care enough to think about changing them

[obtuse wolf]

and having some upgrade for a smelter would function weird

unless it was just an entirely new one

[finite moss]

I guess

[hexed jewel]

i don't think they will do that, I think they would just EITHER (A) add one more upgrade to let it get to the usual level 4 (for weapons) OR they'd just have on upgrade level unlock all (the last 2 in this example) upgrades, i.e. level 4 in this scenario just requires the same station level (# of station upgrades) as the upgrade to 3 did--my original point is basically, I don't seem much meaningful difference between either precisely because we're at "end game" in DN, there's no future progression to worry about, so whatever station (even just 1) upgrade you get access to there, can serve as a sufficient "gate" for all upgrades, you only just add grind for more (and maybe also, different) materials by adding further station upgrades

I do agree it's kind of an odd choice--not one I necessarily oppose, just stands out--to have some biomes have all the upgrade levels available with station & station upgrades available IN or before said biome

[grand sable]

When you hit end-game i like being rewarded with the bestest things, To clearly symbolise that you have done everything and become top dog.

[hexed jewel]

while other biomes DON'T--I'm just gonna take your word for it that that's how it is now, as I never really paid close enough attention to recall that offhand

[grand sable]

Of course you still want some challenge here and there but things should be somewhat trivialised by that point, you should be kinda overpowered after conquering the best in the world.

[hexed jewel]

I agree, and I think it would be weird to have DN weapons only for some reason to have fewer than the now standard 4 levels, I just think no matter what they can easily accommodate 4 levels

and at the same time--if actually having some of the latest equipment not have full upgrades available until later biomes (than it is available first in) was intentional as seems likely for whatever reason--preserve this 'span' by having at least 1 more DN station upgrade (to keep it so that those last levels aren't available until DN)

but what, really, do we lose if it's just that one upgrade on preexisting stations, that then unlocks all DN weapons and upgrades--we still have to do most of the work grinding for mats for each upgrade level

#suggestions message i kind of what this IN ADDITION to have the extra option, but most definitely yes--i guess TECHNICALLY we can sort of cobble that together now, but it wouldn't look nearly so clean sans modding given the circular design (and the absence of "generic" rounded build pieces we could fit in smoothly as railing); seems like a good opportunity to implement a suggestion I saw earlier and absolutely loved, which was similar to some of the shield choices existing now, adding "stylistic" options, some kind of scroll/drop down option in the build menu to add more building variety whilst minimizing menu clutter

[rose swan]

#suggestions message what is a chained weapon?

[lofty wave]

@finite moss

[grand sable]

a weapon on a chain

[finite moss]

?

[grand sable]

mfs never played god of war

[lofty wave]

You’re asking for a chained weapon, what exactly do you mean?

[languid ibex]

He wants to say "Get over here" to every Fuling in the village

[finite moss]

Anything chained like a chain mace a flail

I cant send pictures but look up kusarigama

[rose swan]

Ahhh like a flail?

[grand sable]

Kratos guys......blades of chaos...??....anyone?

[finite moss]

Its kinda like a small sythe on a chain

[finite moss]

Yes

[rose swan]

Lol what would be a neat weapon is the ole’ ball and chain, like from Zelda TP- wouldn’t really fit in Valheim, but it would be a cool mod. I know Zion knows what I’m talking about 👀

[arctic wharf]

HAH! I was itching to reply before even reading you mention me hahahaha. It's actually one of my absolute favorite Zelda weapons/items 🌟
Love how it's so heavy that he stomps around with it

epic fo sho

A normal flail would probably work too, but ball'n'chain would be more unique. (depending on the implementation)

Is middle ground options too... LOTR Witch King flail anyone?

[sage sequoia]

Swing left then right then to the ground with a tiny stagger hammer like effect

[pale ocean]

Why not a flail?

[pure vine]

A flail sounds like a visually unique mace

Y'know what I really want? Skeleton guards for my settlements.

[long glacier]

they could have longer range, some kind of "chaining up" enemies effect, a spin secondary, and unique knockback mechanics. At the cost of attack speed

[wet drift]

Only realistic benefit of flail is bypassing blocking.

[long glacier]

enemies don't block, so I tried to say ideas that aren't that, but still make at least some sense for a weapon with a chain to do

[grand sable]

Rocs are from arabian mythology, fat chance lol..

lox armour really should be a thing though..

[arctic wharf]

Really would not have minded wolf armor too... but tames are already fiercely powerful if you just mass em and don't mind how many losses you take 😂

[pure vine]

I still kinda want linen gambeson as a light armor.
it'd be stylish as heck

#valheim-chat message

[arctic wharf]

I half expected it with the sort of resources we got at plains tier, but only ended up with a heavy set lol

[pure vine]

samesies

[hollow elm]

#suggestions message I'm not passing judgement on the suggestion, but my advice is to transport baby animals. Breed them where you find them and take the offspring back to your base.

[granite geyser]

@shrewd obsidian

https://valheim.fandom.com/wiki/Drakkar

[shrewd obsidian]

Animals will fall of in storms and siege equipment

[hearty finch]

#suggestions message yes PLEASE

[granite geyser]

Still works for the siege engines.

So catapults, as idk why would anyone have a battering ram on a ship

[shrewd obsidian]

Why not

[granite geyser]

Literally 0 use

[shrewd obsidian]

True but still

We have no options for ships we need more

[granite geyser]

Four options is plenty

[shrewd obsidian]

No its not

[granite geyser]

It is. How many would be "enough"?

You barely use all of them in the first place.

[hollow elm]

How many different ship types do you think the Nordic people were crafting?

[stiff stag]

We don't need more. You personally wanting something doesn't mean it's needed.

[hollow elm]

This. Rafts are only ever used by people on their first play through. The latest of the boat options is of no value until reaching Ashlands.

[shrewd obsidian]

Well there where færings small ships then there where long ships and knørur a cargo ship and then drakkar a large war ship with hundreds of men

[hearty finch]

we need grausten submarine

[shrewd obsidian]

That would be fun

[granite geyser]

Especially when you might even stop using them completely once you unlock stone portals as they pretty much replace them.

Why having more ships you will easily ignore?

[hollow elm]

So that's three. We have four in game...

[prisma sail]

10 player game : "we need Drakkar, a large war ship with hundreds of men"
😆

[shrewd obsidian]

Nope

[shrewd obsidian]

The historical drakkar could store hundreds of men

[granite geyser]

Max players is 10, but recommended max amount is like five so half of that

If a new ship won't serve any particular purpose and would feel like it was added just because then they should not add it at all.

[lofty wave]

A valheim server can’t have hundreds of Vikings to hold

[shrewd obsidian]

No shit

[granite geyser]

Færings? Karve

Longship? Literally the same longship

Knarr/Drakkar? Literally Drakkar.

So all of those are there already, adding another of any of them and renaming them would feel like copy pasting the same functions

[prisma sail]

Airship, made from the inflated bladder of a troll, and swamp gas from the witch

[shrewd obsidian]

Yes that could be usefull

[lofty wave]

Flying transport would allow you to ignore the majority of combat in the game

[prisma sail]

Not if we also suggest flying versions of every creature! 🧠

[vivid ridge]

Wow

We have returned to airships in the discussion... Amazing

#suggestions message You can technically do it with the Drakkar even if it is janky

[granite geyser]

Even worse.

No flying

[granite geyser]

The majority of everything actually.

What's the point of exploration if you won't be able to find anything because everything is on the ground?

[arctic wharf]

at that point... just pop through your stone portal

[granite geyser]

Just reaffirms how utterly unnecessary flying in any way, shape or form is

[arctic wharf]

it's a net negative for valheim, without a doubt.

[pure vine]

I would prefer either new ships or ways to add functionality to existing ones.
Flying, much as I like it, probably not suitable for the game. Even with restrictions like inclement weather.

[rose swan]

Yeah, I just don’t see what flying would bring to the table 🤔 if you want aerial view of your build or a scenic spot, could always just dev command.

[peak bronze]

Or jump on top of Wraith to get lifted up.

[fleet lintel]

Can you reliably move tames with boats or can they still run off into the ocean?

[vivid ridge]

they still have a chance of running off yeah

[arctic wharf]

I am on the side of having a few more modifiers for existing boats myself. We have more than enough for a base boat (in all sizes), so we can easily achieve whatever by having some sort of modules to modify boat uses and capabilities.

As for flying, already said what I would do AT MOST as far as flying is concerned 🍐

[fleet lintel]

Yeah, to me it makes sense that once you reach a domestication milestone that there are in game ways to take those accomplishments with you to new biomes.

[rose swan]

Good ole’ shepherd cane that allows tames to follow while you’re holding it would go a long ways I would think 🤔

Guess the correct word is a crook

[fleet lintel]

I think cages on boats would be more what I’m thinking off.

You ride or get your animal into or near enough the boat and it gets “locked” in the vessel and there is some way to release it when you dock

[vivid ridge]

They would need a mechanic for retrieving the tame if your boat broke and you died then

[fleet lintel]

No, the tame would just drown

[vivid ridge]

They dont drown though, nothing drowns except the player

[fleet lintel]

Yeah, but if was “inside” the vessel it wouldn’t be a free swimming entity

It could just die with the boat and call it drowning. Doesn’t have to get released into the water to swim forever

[vivid ridge]

I would prefer it to turn back into the actual animal if the boat breaks

[rose swan]

Eaten by a serpent 👀

[arctic wharf]

They would just fall into the water and swim around wildly I guess... all fine hahaha.
If the mechanic can allow picking up nearby animals to load them on in the first place, then you could always bring a new boat to retrieve the animal from the ocean in a worst-case scenario (assuming they live).

[fleet lintel]

Just seems less cumbersome and more consequential to have them get deleted when the boat dies.

[vivid ridge]

thats kinda what i mean. what if the boat breaks close to land? what if youre breaking it intentionally?

[arctic wharf]

naaaahhhh... way too frustrating as well. Just let the cage only hold a few animals tops, and pop em out if it get destroyed. easy

[fleet lintel]

The game only needs to be but so forgiving.

[fleet lintel]

Yeah, it would be frustrating I suppose if you forgot a tame was locked in a boat and destroyed it

[vivid ridge]

a lot of people (including me) break the boat to store the pieces in a chest so it would be faster to just have them not disappear

[arctic wharf]

I am definitely on board 😉 with such an addition though... among a few other ideas I have seen for boat modules.

[rose swan]

New boat: Noah’s Ark ||kidding||

[arctic wharf]

personally, I would LOVE to see a ballista module that could compete for the open space on the front of the big boat too hahaha. Could set it to shoot at serpents for you automatically.

or even better if it was a harpoon ballista (Controlled manually)... so we could finally get an option to harpoon them to the boat and bring them closer to land without draining stamina like crazy.

by the time we get the Drakkar, all of this is fair game imo

and if you want to make it really useful... have an ocean mob so big that we NEED the boat harpoon to even harpoon it at all, and have the hand held version just snap

boom, progression!

I could go on... (sips juice)

[vivid ridge]

Boat ballista may happen if they add bigger enemies to the ocean

Outer edges of the map only I hope

[stark furnace]

Maybe that’d give drakkar a cool use

[arctic wharf]

Is a lot that could be thought up in ragards to boat additions

[vivid ridge]

Yeah right now I literally dont know why its so big

If their focus is single player.

[pure vine]

I would love this so much for moving animals and retrieving escaped ones.

[rose swan]

#suggestions message Here’s a suggestion for it, should you wish to support 🙂

[pure vine]

Done

[hexed jewel]

#suggestions message this is why I wait for a winner THEN clean up the remnants if it's not dwarves (and 'recycle' it, if it is dwarves)

[mellow crater]

Yes but this « gamy », opposit of immersive

And that is enough in my opinion to suggest patching that

[lofty wave]

#suggestions message
What AOE effect?

[rose swan]

I’m guessing he’s referring to the chain lightning

I think

[lofty wave]

That makes sense, but applies to a lot more than the nidhogg

[rose swan]

Any of the lightning weapons can chain lightning, right?

[lofty wave]

All iolite weapons, yes

[arctic wharf]

neutral mobs needs to not count is a viable target then, which might not be that complicated to tweak in.

(not neutral once attacked ofc)

[rose swan]

But what if you’re trying to attack them? 🤔 what if you proc the lightning in your first strike? (Don’t really have opinion, just curious!)

[arctic wharf]

I would make it just not count in that case to be on the safe side, but really it would depend if they can toggle to hostile (from being hit) faster than the chain lightning proc.

[molten bloom]

#suggestions message I think, on the other hand, that the chain lightning should hit every enemy on the map and kill every boss + merchant

[amber wind]

I wish there was a way to mark them as friendlies, and thus friendly fire would rule out accidental hits.

[arctic wharf]

IG introduces first somewhat friendly faction.
Naturally people like them a lot.
Mechanics dictate that we have to steal from them...
Faction hates us when we steal from them (naturally).
Players are upset by this because they want to stay friendly.

We are vikings right?
Scandinavian pirates.

Jokes aside, I am fine with the idea of alternate ways to acquire the extractor.
Let us bribe them and call it a day.

[grand sable]

I do not care, I am being labeled as a viking non-consensually 😡

[arctic wharf]

Odin picks only the best vikings kekw

[grand sable]

(vikings are cool and i am fine with it and it is what it is and they could be violent, but not everything about everything in history was good, i don't really like the whole raiding and pillaging thing, i like fighting just not the killing part)

[arctic wharf]

Am genuinely joking btw, if it is not apparent enough.

This game is very much a fantasy game inspired by the fantasy viking. 😎

[mellow crater]

#suggestions message okay, here you got : five no-textured raw models, a flawed map generation, a cool new light in the sky. Cool.

Seriously, suggestions are about giving to the devs ideas they may not have thought of. Not asking them to do something they already are spending all their energy to do, plus they know better than us if the update is ready to be released or not.

[proper sage]

to be honest, they're reworking earlier parts of the game too, which i think is awesome, and helps with replayability for those of us who've had the game for almost 4 years. - the more people playing, the more friends they can get playing with them, which helps everyone.

[granite geyser]

How is that related to that statement?

[proper sage]

because he implied that they're spending all of their time on deep north, which this suggestion relates to, but likely they aren't.

this is the discussion channel, by the way, where we can discuss stuff!

also, since the initial suggestion is that they rush deep north and release it, it's important to point out the content they're producing that doesn't necessarily relate to deep north

[arctic wharf]

While I hope they have equally as much or even more planned for the rest of the world to make it a cohesive experience from start to finish (ironing out all the kinks that could not be foreseen until the whole picture was falling into place), I have a feeling 90% or more of the effort will be on deep north biome and the end of the game only... so that they can call valheim done

I may be being a little pessimistic ofc. 🤷‍♂️

The last updates are upon us 🌟

Well, in a long while from now, but that's fine. Let em cook.

[rose swan]

I hope deep north doesn’t drop anytime soon lol 👀 really rather them take their time on it… don’t really care if it takes 2 years personally (1.0)

[peak bronze]

I agree, let them take their time to cook. Better that than rushed content.

Although some small updates/adds wouldn't hurt, like adding some new weapons like higher tier battleaxe. 🥹

[short wing]

Well I hope Deep North does take about as much time as the ashlands / mistlands updates.
1.0 can certainly take longer, polishing, going back over the previous biomes with a fine toothed comb to hash out things that aren't needed anymore or that does need adding, moving certain items to a more logical place (looking at you scythe handle).
Maybe adding or removing certain weapons / weapon types to some biomes. (Looking at you fist weapons).

[pure vine]

They usually release in a decent state iirc

[short wing]

LET THEM COOK!

[pure vine]

Of course I love me atgeirs 'cause they got reach and a decent parry

[peak bronze]

What weapon types you think need to be removed?

I agree Fists weapons are another forgotten type.

[short wing]

Axes (its a tool so ok), clubs, swords, spears and bows all have 6 or more, so one or more in each biome.
Compared to other weapons they are over represented, so either remove some or give the others the same representation.

[fleet lintel]

Does every weapon need to have the same amount of versions?

[proper sage]

i wouldn't say remove any, but i do think people should be able to keep upgrading in the weapons they enjoy, at least 1 version per tier, at least after it's introduced. we don't need a giant stone axe, or a giant bronze axe, but once it comes in iron, it'd be nice if there was one all the way through

[short wing]

Not really but it would give some more diversification.
A player that really like fist weapons is screwed.
A knife user can have fun till the ashlands but come the ashlands the player will have to either perform with a weapon from the previous biome and be subpar or adapt and use another weapon that is available in the ashlands.
I for one would love to see 2 handed axes sooner, I don't like the slow attacks of the normal axes but really enjoy the berserkir axes, so I'm either "forced" to start using axes sooner to get the skill up or only start leveling axes when the berserkir axes come into play.
Being able to keep upgrading certain weapons or armor from previous biomes would also be nice, I really like the fenris set and ok you have a similar one in the ashlands but well, there are a few biomes in between those.

[fleet lintel]

I hate this argument. Survival games should be about adaptability. Back you needed a blunt weapon to kill bone mass the game would be better.

Players should be forced to branch out and try different things to solve problems.

And killing bosses is the most constant problem in the game

[proper sage]

what does people having a choice in weapons they enjoy, have anything to do with how you enjoy the game?

[fleet lintel]

There are so many weapons there is always a choice

[proper sage]

bonemass hasn't changed, that i know of, he still is weak to blunt and slash doesn't do much

[fleet lintel]

There doesn’t need to be a 1 handed mace or any other specific weapon for every biome

[fleet lintel]

Boneless got a huge nerf. He used to be impossible to damage with slashing or piercing. He would regenerate health faster than you could do damage

He is still weak to blunt. It just isn’t as relevant

[short wing]

There is always a choice but not always the choice you enjoy the most.
If you enjoy swords, peachy, go nuts have a sword every biome, if you like fist weapons, well good luck with the one biome that has it.

[fleet lintel]

I disagree with having a sword in every biome. Although there probably is one except for meadows. But the game could use a few more fist weapons. I agree with that

We don’t need magic staves in every biome. We don’t need crossbows in every biome.

[proper sage]

if the person i'm playing with wants to use a giant axe the entire game, i hope he gets his giant axe

[fleet lintel]

We don’t need any 1 weapon in every biome

[fleet lintel]

Changes to the game should make the game more fun. Not make 1 person happier

Allowing people to coast on 1 weapon the entire time actually takes content out of the game for them

[proper sage]

this seems like weird logic you're using for this to me

[fleet lintel]

Because they don’t try any of the other weapons

The entire game is built around finding solutions to address challenges and problems. Removing the need for weapon diversification actually detracts from the game imo

[proper sage]

there's plenty of reason for weapon diversity still in the game

[fleet lintel]

Obviously I think my logic is sound, but ultimately this is just my opinion

On weapons in the game and on my own logic

[short wing]

Exactly but there are swords for every biome, so the one that is content and likes swords will not try anything else.
Unless maybe a mace for bonemass but that is one instance, one boss and takes a couple of minutes.

So either give every weapon the same availability or remove swords from some biomes, so you are either forced to try other weapons or use a weapon from the previous biome.

Same with clubs, meadows even has 2 clubs.

[fleet lintel]

Yeah, some swords could be removed. Some fist weapons could be added

I agree. Although there are fists in every biome 😂

And there are no swords in meadows!

[rose swan]

Don’t think it would go over well with a lot of players if they just simply removed weapons 😅

[proper sage]

what fist weapons are in the first few biomes? am i missing something?

[fleet lintel]

Your literal fists

[short wing]

True, starts from black forest.
Clubs on the other hand are in every biome and meadows even has 2.

[fleet lintel]

Eh, there are so many swords it would be relatively painless

Ashlands has 3 swords in it?

[short wing]

5 flamemetal sword, flamemetal with all the different gems and the special one dyrnwyn.

[fleet lintel]

Not counting enchanted versions of the e same sword?

[rose swan]

3? 5? 🤔

OH forgot about Slayer ha

[fleet lintel]

I guess really there are 7?

1h sword, 2h sword, each with a base +3 variations. That’s 8

[short wing]

Wait I'm forgetting the two handers.

[fleet lintel]

But I wouldn’t count the enchantments.

[rose swan]

I wouldn’t count the enchanted versions, that just makes the number seem bloated imo

[fleet lintel]

Just slayer, nidhogg, drynwynn

[short wing]

So 9 different swords in total.

[short wing]

True but every enchantment brings its own playstyle that some might find more fun compared to another enchantment.

[rose swan]

Personally, I kinda see the flesh rippers as more of a novelty 🤔 but I can understand people wanting more.

[short wing]

Same with the atgeirs and I really miss single handed knives to go with a good parry shield from mistlands on.

[fleet lintel]

We need 3 enchantments for every weapon in every biome!!!

[pure vine]

If fists had a decent parry and some up/down aiming they especially need I'd consider it

[stark furnace]

counting the flametal version and gem variations as different is a bit laughable tbh

[pure vine]

Starting to think weapon enchantments should get their own bench to reduce recipe clutter?

[rose swan]

If anything, I could see a seperate workstation that is specifically for enchanting weapons- debatable if it’s even necessary or not I suppose.

[stiff stag]

Also odd that enchantments aren't applied to the base weapon but are rather crafted separately.

[rose swan]

Ahh almost forgot about that- yeah that is certainly odd.

[stiff stag]

Could have the enchantments handled at the artisan table. First craft the base weapon, then have the enchantments applied after.

[short wing]

They are basically the same but also a bit different, different playstyles and all.
So there is a point to be made to count them as one and the same or different.

[stark furnace]

The differences really aren't that big enough to warrant an entirely different playstyle, the enchantments themselves are incredibly basic and unflattering

Like, doing extra damage is not a new playstyle, the closest gem to warranting a new playstyle is the vine gem, even then it's just not entirely there

[stiff stag]

Although I forgot that one of the upgrade stations for the black forge is a gem cutter, which would have to be moved as well otherwise it would no longer make sense being there.

[short wing]

For the blood gem, it is trying to keep your lost health high.
Vines requires more repositioning to benefit most from it.
For lightning you want to have grouped enemies.
Not a big difference but still kind of a difference, needing to count them as a different weapon maybe not, needing to mention that there are different versions, certainly.
Just saying there are 3 swords in ashlands is a bit misleading.

[rose swan]

But that’s similar to saying there are 4 maces in the Ashlands, which just sounds a little misleading I think 🤔

[eternal wyvern]

Idk why anybody would ever use the base version.

I've yet to see a successful playstyle out of the blood gem, lightning is basically just more damage, vine is cool.

[analog moss]

because you can upgrade it more. if you don't want to keep your health low and avoid chaining dverger, it's the best option for high DPS.

[rose swan]

Yee, I prefer the base versions. The upgraded base damage is pretty ouch negligible, but the extra durability is a plus. Though to be honest, the main reason I use the “raw” weapons as I call them, is because I like the look of the them lol.

#valheim-chat message fun maths

[short wing]

Yeah so there is a need to specify, 1 base club that can be used as is or changed in 3 ways with 3 different gems.

[obtuse wolf]

@wet oriole 💡 👍

[wet oriole]

Thanks Yeah i realised as soon as i posted it 😤

[lofty wave]

#suggestions message
Why do you assume deep north will have gems?

@granite geyser

[granite geyser]

Because there are three remaining elements not present in the ashlands gems

[lofty wave]

I'd prefer effects that are designed to work well with the specific weapon type instead of more effects that have to be applied to anything.

[rose swan]

I’d also prefer the pre-Ashlands way of doing weapons, but I feel now that they’ve Introduced gems, we’ll see more of it come DN.

[rose swan]

If we get 2 or 3 more gems, that black forge crafting list is going to be pretty long 🤔

[granite geyser]

Wdym?

[finite vapor]

Gems could have been done a lot better yes

[lofty wave]

The effects that gem weapons have are the same across all weapon types, and that’s a problem because those effects will work better with some weapons and worse with others. (For example, % on hit isn’t good for slower weapons)
If each weapon has its own unique effect that considers the behaviour of the weapon and enhances what that weapon already does well, that would be much better.

[rose swan]

Maybe this is a spicy take, but I’m not a huge fan of the entire gem/enchantment system🤔 not trying to seem pessimistic or ungrateful, but I think that’s one of the weaker parts of the end game.

[granite geyser]

Can see why

[granite geyser]

Fair.

The fact that they add new weapons could be a good opportunity for that.

But I highly doubt it, even more that they overhaul the flametal weapons so they're viable with any enchantment

[languid ibex]

Well, there's many examples of biomes being revisited and additional armor/weapons surfacing as a result, assuming it must be coming in the DN takes away from the over-all suggestion.

The idea isn't bad, it's just wrapped up in an assumption, and one I wouldn't necessarily get behind without knowing more.

[arctic wharf]

I agree with this as well... but hey, not everything is going to be a home run 🤷‍♂️

[novel crescent]

What do you think about early magic?

[arctic wharf]

blood Nidhog (405 slash damage)
Jade Nidhog (405 slash damage + 30 poison)

Already their flat damage profiles are like... almost no different.

Should been something like 440 slash for blood
And 200 / 200 for jade and thunder.
A bit weaker overall, but completely split damage types in the intention that you use certain types to counter weak enemies.

[obtuse wolf]

💡 👍

[novel crescent]

To me it seems like devs did the magic system dirty and introduced it too late. It's our 5th run and magic still feels like something that was introduced and forgotten to be polished.

[arctic wharf]

it's a ♻️ but I almost wondered about perhaps the goblin shamen dropping their staffs as a really rare drop 🤭
Is a few ways they could consider it.
Imo it should just remain like a really shoddy early taste, rather than anything truly powerful like we get in mistlands. Otherwise, it could dominate even more of the game hahaha

[novel crescent]

I think something like this:

💡Magic should be available from the beginning.

5-10 always available Eitr and some weak magic weapons so that the players can level Elemental / Blood Magic from the start. Introduction of healing staffs/wands is welcomed.

As of now, the magic system is only given at the very end and you can barely touch it.

Shamans can use healing — here's the healing magic item. Shamans can use poisoning breath — here's our damaging magic weapon

[lofty wave]

But then players could go to plains and get an overpowered weapon for early biomes. I understand that players can skip ahead for other weapons like Krom but that requires a lot more work than killing one type of enemy.

[obtuse wolf]

it wouldnt just be the staff you would need eitr food as well

[arctic wharf]

good point, it would have to be kept to an item that is used to craft a staff knock off
Was just one area I had in mind ofc. have not thought about it a lot.

Could just use their trophy perhaps, since it's unique and = no new drop needed

[novel crescent]

You have dexterity and health. What makes Eitr food related only?

[lofty wave]

Swap their bukeperries for a new material to make this staff and basic eitr food?
|| I don’t want magic in plains btw, just helping with your ideas.||

[novel crescent]

It's just that Eitr was introduced with Mystlands. That's it. Nothing more.

[obtuse wolf]

yea i just mean if that were to be in game rn

[hearty finch]

i think its made on purpose that we start with 0 magic and slowly introduce it (silver stuff in mountains that does spirit dmg is magiclike)

[arctic wharf]

well, they didn't want super strong magic at all for a long long time. It only came in mistlands due to popular demand and dev choice.

[obtuse wolf]

ofc if any earlier magic was introduced earlier eitr food would be needed

[hearty finch]

i think would be cool in swamp with some ghetto weakish magic

bog witch already in swamp so its there to be built upon

[arctic wharf]

with bog witch, there is a place for it in swamp too now haha

[novel crescent]

Raise skellies could be introduced on swamps, since there are a lot of them.

[hearty finch]

ya maybe

[arctic wharf]

I guess it basically falls down to.
They could if they want to, but will they want to?

[finite vapor]

Bog witch should at least allow swamp crossbow

[novel crescent]

Community demand?

[lofty wave]

It takes more than community demand. Horses are often suggested, but they’re never being added.

[novel crescent]

Sadge. Was hoping for something like abiotic factor ↔ community communication.

[hearty finch]

abiotic ah yes i know that word

[novel crescent]

Reworked my idea a bit. #suggestions message

[languid ibex]

I'm definitely on the fence with early magic, it's current state feels like it's meant to give a major sense of progression

[rose swan]

Another hot take, but I actually don’t think introducing eitr earlier would be a bad thing. However, it would require a lot of work. An earlier version of the galdr table most likely, potentially an earlier way to get a refined eitr equivalent, probably a ton of balancing of current enemies and more. However, would be cool to have an excuse to give something like shamans, ghost, Fenring, etc better or new drops? Would also justify a rework of Yagluths power.

Probably not worth it though, if I had to guess.

[novel crescent]

It is introduced too late. Me and my friend have been playing Valheim for two years, and still have the same opinion.

[rose swan]

Don’t think a healing staff is a great option 🤔

[lofty wave]

How is it too late? Why is it a problem that we don’t have magic earlier?

[hearty finch]

i dont like "increase Eitr limit by 5 forever". the character shouldnt be ever inherently magical. afaik, right now the magic comes from staffs + food that grows in soil nearby yggdrassil roots. the viking itself is not magical

or maybe im misunderstanding what you're saying

[novel crescent]

Yet you can consume food and have Eitr for a limited time.

Why not have +5 forever for the defeated boss? You enter Mystlands and have at least 20 Eitr.

[hearty finch]

yea i guess the limited vs unlimited is the huge difference to me

limited feels like just borrowing something that isn't mine, unlimited then it becomes me

[arctic wharf]

Well... they were pushing through the biomes to slowly work towards the end of the game.... over those last 2 years.
THIS is the time to look into the experience as a whole, and finally consider the game experience from start to finish.

[novel crescent]

As I suggested, it's only given once and barely increases it.

[rose swan]

Don’t think increasing Eitr permanently would be a good direction

[hearty finch]

also healing staff would mby remove need for healing pots

[languid ibex]

I disagree, being caught up on retroactive assessments could hinder the over-all development progression or uproot work that's already been done.

Looking backwards is best done after the current roadmap is completed.

[hearty finch]

but its true, black forest is where we encounter magic for the first time (iirc), so we could have some magic item there

[rose swan]

To be fair, IG has said they plan to revisit the whole experience with 1.0

[languid ibex]

Exactly, there's already a plan for this, assuming suggestions from this point take part in that revisiting is odd to say the least.

[rose swan]

Sure, but earlier eitr introduction has been requested even before Ashlands.

Eitr + queen bee = bee staff

[novel crescent]

Could be. As this is a suggestion, I just decided to throw a though.

[hearty finch]

ya

[novel crescent]

I don't get why some people are so defensive against the changes, that they can just ignore.

[languid ibex]

Right, but it's been stated many times that wants do not outweigh the intentions behind the design. I'm not saying it wasn't planned, and isn't apart of what they're referring to when saying they'll revisit the experience. It's just also just as fair to say it's a lovely motivation for progressing through the game, and unlocking magical abilities has likely resulted in enough excited reactions by players to warrant keeping it where it is. Both are fair approaches, and as Blobicycake said above, it isn't necessary to have magic early regardless.

[arctic wharf]

As I said a little while ago as well, I am more worried that this (revisiting all biomes) might still only just be a glance rather than a suite of additions from start to finish... resulting in less than 10% of the content in the 1.0 update being outside the deep north 😂
I personally would prefer if even as much as 70% of all the content added in 1.0 update was throughout the rest of the world, instead of just deep north... but that sort of goes hand in hand with my #1 hope as far as possible additions go.

[languid ibex]

Personally I'd rather anything major done in hindsight to also include the Deep North as a consideration, not necessarily done in tandem.

[novel crescent]

I still hope, that they will revisit Ashlands and will give us promised fortresses.

[arctic wharf]

I also don't mind if they take another year (or slightly longer) to deliver us 1.0, since this should be for the most part the final update for Valheim... outside of some bug fixing and such.

[arctic wharf]

They should likely be released together tho, for simplicity's sake.
They can ofc just work on DN first, then do one last run of additions throughout the whole experience, then release it all together. 🫡

[rose swan]

Agreed, don’t think early Eitr is necessary. I just like brainstorming ideas is all 😁

[stiff stag]

Given that it didn't happen, safe to say it was never actually promised or set in stone.

[arctic wharf]

The concept art just kinda overhyped us, sadly lol
but I do agree the final implementation fell particularly short of expectations .

[novel crescent]

Well. It felt... Sad?

I don't know. I probably just felt betrayed and scammed at that point, when we set foot on the Ashlands and have found burned Dark Forest.

[languid ibex]

Assuming there is a revisiting, that's all well in good, the focus on the final biome I would hope takes most of the attention from the developers, and then some major overhauls can be considered. In some cases, polishing can lose studios money if the development period does not match the expected profits from a full release, even if profitable over-all. That's not necessarily always up to the developer, and the publishers could request another game be made before touching back down on Valheim to bolster profits and encourage job security.

[novel crescent]

The last biomes felt too rushed and unpolished on releases. They should definitely have some more time or people.

[arctic wharf]

I mean... IG has made most of its money... 1.0 release or not, they likely won't get that many more sales.
Everyone here has bought valheim 👀
This is probably why they are open to all the side merch such as the board game, and also one of many factors for why they want to reach 1.0 and move onto their next game.

[languid ibex]

That's really not true, a lot of the money will be returning players being hooked by a finished experience, gifting the game to friends or buying official merchandise. There's also cooperative deals to be made with sales from 3rd party companies, and so on.

[arctic wharf]

that can only go so far, as many likely have done that already... not only do I own valheim, but all of my friends do.... and my sister thanks to said gifting

[languid ibex]

There's a myriad of players that have aged up during development too, and are only now allowed to play games, like players who were age 6-7 when early access released.

[arctic wharf]

There will be more people, I am not denying that. It's just that with the amount of sales they have had... most everyone who would be interested has bought it.

I do expect some sort of surge ofc with 1.0, just nothing insane

[languid ibex]

I don't think your relative experience informs a general experience though, there's so many variables and available products, I guarantee a new influx of players will emerge when the marketing behind a full release goes forward.

[novel crescent]

I have only one friend that is still willing to play Valheim. Other two are too bored to even enter.

The MS or all of the game mechanics should be revisited.

[languid ibex]

I don't think that's an inherent reason as to why it should be revisited, especially in place of development milestones.

[arctic wharf]

I just don't think it will catch as many new people as you might expect...
If valheim was in a position to somehow sell something else on top of the base game though. Would be looking at serious 💵
V Rising had a decent setup for this, with delivering a great game and some supporter cosmetic bundles on top I think Valheim isn't the right game for this though unfortunetly haha

hence... once again, this is likely a contributor to wanting to push 1.0 and move on

They still need to have the budget to keep the team employed for their next project prior to it's release

[languid ibex]

I don't have a real expectation where that is concerned, but the information available to publishers and high potential is enough to keep the game in development to find out just how popular it can become.

However it's approached, there is enough potential here.

[arctic wharf]

thankfully IG is for sure not in a situation were budget to finish Valheim is a concern though, so we know they can technically take as long as they decide to finish valheim off at least decently well.

[rose swan]

MS?

[languid ibex]

Whether we go the road of DLC, cosmetics, or even rewarding players for sharing the game with friends, the potential here is enough to garner profits from die-hards and new players alike.

[novel crescent]

Magic System

[arctic wharf]

Just as a counterargument, I don't think they should have to revisit everything. It would take far too long.
They likely just need to have a handful of goals in mind for what they want to accomplish as far as looking at the rest of the world goes (Non-DN-content)

[languid ibex]

I would even assume there's things they just, intentionally skipped over on the roadmap, and would include that in the revisiting comments.

[arctic wharf]

dunno if magic will make that cut hehe

[languid ibex]

Such as a Bog Witch or Abomination.

[arctic wharf]

roadmap has not played a part for a long long time, so I have no idea if anything left out will still make the cut at all.
A lot of it did tho already.

[languid ibex]

Every team has a roadmap, it would be incredibly difficult for multiple developers to work on different systems without one.

[arctic wharf]

ah, perhaps an internal one yeah. has not been a public one for a long time. It was scrapped.

I just thought that was the one you were referring to lol, nvm

[languid ibex]

Yeah, it's not exactly commonplace to have a public roadmap anymore, I've tested for games that did this and had to stop because of literal death threats when certain things weren't added or even just removed from the roadmap.

[arctic wharf]

sad, but very true

[languid ibex]

The human element is volatile sometimes 😅

[granite geyser]

That it would be a terrible mistake

[granite geyser]

Yes, and it still is the most broken playstyle.

The only bad thing you can say about it is how easy it makes combat.

Despite you get it at skill level 0

[arctic wharf]

We lack some enemies that have great countermeasures to magic
No deflecting shield or counter spell magic go poof effects to be seen, or anything of the sort.

[rose swan]

Was wondering where you were during the ole’ early magic conversation 😂

[granite geyser]

Now imagine being able to level the skills from the very beginning. On top of that, many enemies (including the bosses) are weak to some elements.

Does that really sound balanced? They might as well remove every other early weapon and just leave staves because why using literally anything else if magic is the most efficient way?

[rose swan]

Would definitely require an entire rework of pretty much every enemy 🤔

[arctic wharf]

Imagine if ashlands warlocks had a control magic style ability that allowed them to take control of your summons
(probably one or a few summon per warlock ofc, prioritizing the most worthwhile one not already controlled)

troll stave anyone?

or perhaps those vines turn on you if you don't take out any near by warlocks first

but yeah, nothing has been done on this front... perhaps something needs to be.

[lofty wave]

That would only affect players using magic though

[arctic wharf]

exactly... the point...
Not every enemy needs magic counter measures, but a few would force you to not always default to magic weapons, and what better enemies to have magic countermeasures then enemy mages? 🌟

I would love if enemies with shields could finally block our arrows btw. The shields are only for show sadly.

[rose swan]

I do lean towards 👎 when it comes to introducing Eitr/magic earlier… however, it’s a lot of fun thinking of potential weapons and stuff using some of the early materials, I won’t lie.

Ancient bark is pretty much begging to be made into some sort of shamanistic crafting table. Crystal is perfect for something like magic missile or a crystal ball improvement. Ghosts could drop ectoplasm to be used for an improvement or the shaman table. Rancid remains could have a eitr related drop, Fenring summon maybe? Thunderstone lightning staff? There is some potential there as far as creativity goes 😅

Again, just a fun thought experiment, not actual suggestions lol

[arctic wharf]

V rising has a great mechanic for enemies with shields too, were they raise it for a short duration standing in place not attacking, and if you hit them fro the front while it is raised you get mini-stunned and they have a chance to counter-attack you 😂

[arctic wharf]

man... some really creative ideas 🔮
Always more that could be added for sure, just have to not run wild and run right into feature creep

[novel crescent]

I do not know how to make the words wording for this reply. It feels so wrong. Like: you do not like magic because it is overpowered? Well it should be. It is M A G I C

[lofty wave]

I don't think any current enemies could be changed, but blocking enemies is something I'd like to see in deep north

[arctic wharf]

I mean, I could see a few tweaked.
This game is technically Early Access (meaning, everything is subject to change)

[lofty wave]

They'd need to be weakened in some way to make up for it

[arctic wharf]

perhaps, perhaps not. Just depends on the kind of changes made.

and playtesting, lot's of playtesting and iteration

[stiff stag]

Odd that skeletons don't block despite having shields. Then again it could become a major pain fighting them then.

[lofty wave]

I was talking about blocking. Other kinds of changes could be ok

[arctic wharf]

skeletons not the only ones

[rose swan]

I’m ready to get parried by a fuling

[lofty wave]

Any enemy that can block should have a tower shield, with lower move and turn speed so you can get around them. Also getting knocked around by their block force would be fun

[arctic wharf]

the problem is magic overshadows most every other weapon, not so much that it is strong.
This is why so many are super hesitant to see it added even earlier as then we just overshadow even more content.

[arctic wharf]

Fuling Cackle

[arctic wharf]

I agree with that for enemies with tower shields, those with small shields could probably just have less use out of them, with only blocking arrows.

[novel crescent]

But that's the point. To have variability. Sure it overshadows, but no one forces you to use it.

[lofty wave]

Also enemies in dungeons shouldn't be able to spawn with these as you won't be able to get around them in the same way

[arctic wharf]

The big shields ye, but that could also be part of the challenge for some end game dungeons

[lofty wave]

Hopefully the next dungeon is more open now that we have increased jump height. We didn't have that when infested mines were added

[arctic wharf]

fingers crossed we get like 5 - 10 new dungeon types 🙏

[stiff stag]

"Just ignore it" is not a proper way to address glaring balance issues.

[pliant sorrel]

Woah that’s a lot! But if there was that much, I’m all in for it!

[arctic wharf]

I just really love dungeons... and I am considering it being content throughout the whole world, not only DN
it's like, partially what I really really want with my #1 desire ofc as well haha

[novel crescent]

As I said, I do not know how to properly form my thoughts. I just know, that blocking changes because you feel something overpowered is totally wrong.

[pliant sorrel]

I believe in DN, it’d be cool if they did an addition of everything, not just one type of way to gain resources, rather dungeon, mining, scavenging etc.

[arctic wharf]

I mean, no one here is blocking anything... they just have their own reasons to feel differently about the prospect of said changes.

[pliant sorrel]

Also I really want to talk about the idea of the addition of vikings in camps at the DN

[arctic wharf]

other living vikings is almost certainly not going to happen, but who knows hehe