suggestion-discussion

[last onyx]

his fps is fine until there's like 500 seeker meat and carapice on the ground.

[ashen tinsel]

Can always build a chest or 50 on-site near the entrance to dump items

[celest patio]

I would like to make a suggestion if it hasn't already been said to put draw bridges in thje game

[unreal schooner]

Unfortunately it has, like 52t2 times (don't know what t means)

[celest patio]

o ok hopfully they will put them in with the ashland content

[rose swan]

Hey @dusky aspen , generally we try to keep the discussions in this channel 🙂

[runic patio]

Can someone please explain to me why a server-side character option is "down voted"; I simply can't see why people would be against this?

#suggestions message

There's even a mod https://valheim.thunderstore.io/package/Smoothbrain/ServerCharacters, which (ontop of needing the mod tools) also requires client-side setup, with 965 dependent packages, I gather there are people who do want this, and not needing a mod would be a good thing.

[pure patio]

Because it's not part of the vision of the game. Characters and worlds are intentionally separated. There are mods you can use if you want, but it's not what IG wants and it starts making the server much different code than the client. It's also generally suggested in the vein of server security, and that is against the general design spirit of the game.

[runic patio]

What "vision"? These systems have always been terrible since I first saw this in Terraria... and an option wouldn't ruin it. I understand they would need to spend some time to code something that's not already in there where priorities are elsewhere. The server wouldn't need "much different code", all it needs to do is accept "copy the character setup locally for a given name" and then log every item change when they happen...

--
Unless the "client" just "Adds stuff to the container" in the code which is a terrible networking solution but from the sounds of it that might actually be it...

[void warren]

Valheim is a client authoritative game. Making the characters server side would not (for valheim) make character corruption happen less, it would happen more

If you lost some items you can very easily load up your character in a singleplayer game and spawn them in

[runic patio]

View it differently - think of the inventory like it would be a "special ethereal player chest"; when the player "outs something from this chest", [the client] sends "move item X into chest @ wherever" given the two actions are in the same instructions, there would be no "corruption".

Many games do this; this is basic. Regardless of it being "client authoritive" you can still do this.

[void warren]

Yeah, but the whole system would have to be rewritten, and as Pitabred mentioned it's not the direction the game is going in

[runic patio]

As for "spawning" to me that's essentially cheating.

[void warren]

Yes, but problems happen and it is the solution if you want to restore your character state given you don't have a backup

[runic patio]

Yeah that didn't work since it crashed at the wrong time, so the money's gone.

[rose swan]

It’s not really cheating, right? Like you did the work, got your big purchase, you deserve to have your purchase. Spawn it in (it doesn’t require mods, by the way) and everything will move forward. I get that crashes and lost progress is frustrating, but there are solutions around it.

#valheim-help message
Here’s a guide on how to use dev commands, hope this helps 👍

[silk halo]

you got cheated first in this instance

[dusky aspen]

Sorry I'm really bad at discord.

[eternal storm]

Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not using armor stands because putting my weaponry on it requires to move 1 to 4 items from my hotbar to the inventory/ground and back to the hotbar again. And taking stuff from the armor stand requires to equip it again.
It's ok as decoration but it has no utility compared to a basic chest, which is more convenient to use.

So, what if interacting with an empty armor stand would automatically move your equipped weaponry to it, and interacting again would move the items back where they were, and automatically equip it? A confirmation button could be used to prevent getting accidentally naked and unarmed, of course.

[stiff stag]

I think it would be better to have it so you can interact with an armor stand and have an image of it as a menu, with slots on each part of it that you can drag items to or from. Could go a step further and add a preset configuration tab to the menu, where you can make presets on what should be equipped, then have buttons for equipping a preset or one to take all items. Best I can think of for making a much more convenient system to work with.

[wanton atlas]

@thin rose you can play just fine AFAIK between xbox and Steamdeck if your friend on steamdeck uses crossplay setting. Both Xbox and steam support that networking

@atomic flame Valheim is still not finished so things like that will be added later

[brisk turtle]

I think it's because the devs have stated multiple times that they do not plan to add this option to the game ever

[wanton atlas]

We do not want it since it will just create the oposite problems.
Stolen servers, characters locked when someone joins a random server and then the owner ghosts people. etc etc etc

[mortal lichen]

Had your suggestion ended at the first sentence maybe more people would have liked it, but then you went on a needless rant in the suggestion itself. Suggest there, discuss here next time ^^

[stiff stag]

Yeah, it came off very strongly as someone throwing a temper tantrum rather than making a suggestion.

[eternal storm]

Interacting with an inventory-like menu, dragging icons and such it's what makes me use chests instead of armor stands because it requires the same work for the same result but they're easier to build and each can keep at least 2 sets of armor and weapons.

The armor stand instead allows to get wanted items instantly, which should be its selling point, but putting items on it being cumbersome and not equipping such items automatically kind of breaks the deal.

[stiff stag]

The difference between an armor stand and a chest is decoration vs general storage. They are not used for the same purpose.

[eternal storm]

Yep, it's decoration, but I don't see how wrong could it be if it was also useful, not to mention that's what armor stands were also used for.

[stiff stag]

I think you missed the most important part, having buttons in the menu for taking all items or for creating presets that can then be equipped all at once. Such a system would allow you to add and remove individual items, add a set of items all at once, and preserve the existing functionality of retrieving all of the items at once.

[eternal storm]

A button like that could work, at the expense of some immersion, I guess, but hey.

Anyway, I'd like to clarify a thing about armor stands as decorations: not being functional actually prevents them for being used as decoration in some crucial situations. For example, if you want to build a believable armory you can place weapons on stands and it's ok, but then you get the usual piles of chests because there really isn't many options for storing the other stuff (armor, arrows...), and now the armory looks like as any other storehouse...

[stiff stag]

I feel that either way there isn't one ideal solution that covers everything, it's going to be a trade-off in one way or another.

[eternal storm]

Nothing wrong with trade-offs, I was just considering all ramifications.

A compromise could be a chest-like interface that can only store 4 pieces of armor/clothing, 1 main weapon, and 1 secondary item (shield, torch, whatever).
Aside from the usual "Take all" button and such, it would also have a button to instantly store all your equipped armor and the 2 items in your hands, only if the armor stand is empty, and then another button to remove the items from the armor stand and automatically equip them on your character in the correct slots, the same way the tombstone does it.

It should be not that hard to implement since all the pieces already exist in the game, and it would make the armor stand useful to people who often switch between sets.

[stiff stag]

Another idea I had was a way to mark items in your inventory, then when you interact with an armor stand it would equip all of the marked items at once. And it could have it so only one of each type of item can be marked at a time.

[eternal storm]

To me it seems like it's additional complexity for a very niche use, which means devs are unlikely to work on it. The game already has a system in place for knowing which items the players prefers: the ones equipped, and the ones in the hotbar.

[granite geyser]

That you're supposed to play with trusted people. The host is the only one responsible for the people they bring, and you can't create a server without a password for that reason as well.

The time spent on that could be used on a hundred more important things

[wanton atlas]

https://tenor.com/view/look-what-yep-this-gif-13617583

and also. we don't want to server-lock

since then we will have tons of people complaining about "XXX person stole my character"

[stuck aurora]

I think that Fishing skill could slightly increased chance for bonus resource from fishing

[unreal schooner]

Is it only me, or did suggestions lose that harsh treatment to them they used to have before?

People suggesting everything now and nobody comes and explains they are wrong

[short wing]

It seems to have matured towards a more civilized way.
Unless the person that made the suggestion gets entitled and annoying than it can turn harsh again.
The first responses are pretty civilized but the moment nagging and fighting back occurs it can turn nasty again, has been a while though.

[devout arch]

Surt as Ashlands boss?

[unkempt raven]

Considering he's guarding Muspell and is destined to play a major role at Ragnarok, it would be very strange if he suddenly found himself banished to Valheim by Odin...

[hexed jewel]

just for a spell--just a quick side quest in Valheim, that canon never mentioned cuz it just didn't seem important/relevant to the main story

[unkempt raven]

There's that bit about us killing him, though.

[hexed jewel]

it's Valheim--death is less permanent than for soap opera characters!

🙂

[rose swan]

I think suggestions discussions has been a lot more civilized recently as well, and I think it’s because we (the community) has been more positive and receptive of each other. There’s been a lot of encouragement for discussions instead of arguments.

[unkempt raven]

@zealous flower have you tried any of the dual wielding weapons?

[desert fern]

imagine parrying with two swords forming an X

[wanton edge]

You've been a great leader by example in that area! The behavior of the regulars makes a huge difference

[wanton edge]

I would love to be able to use item stands to do a quick swap of equipped gear - your character would still go through the animation, but it would queue all the equipping like you can from your inventory. Valheim does a great job of combining function and decoration, I'd like to see that extend to armor stands

[rose swan]

Thanks, we all do our part to make the community better! I’m flattered 😅

[visual goblet]

Your suggestion is great and it was mentioned countless times. Of course it would be great and healthy for the game and the community. Fans just parrot the devs excuses not to spend time on it, ppl here just can't have a non biased conversation about the game without jumping with swords and axes when someone says anything that goes against the devs vision. Which is great, I hope they follow their vision. The only vision in not adding server based characters though is the "is-probably-hard-to-implement". Although a mod already does it flawlessly and it even works on xbox game pass xD.

[mortal lichen]

A mod can also turn you into Thomas the tank engine, doesn't mean it's a good idea.

[pure patio]

It's not a good idea, it's a great idea!

[karmic flax]

2 weeks later 😂

[pure patio]

You're still here, aren't you? Get to answering it 😜

[mortal lichen]

Veg makes your character turn, use a build piece to orient towards where your character turned, go outside, take out same buildpiece, voila

[zealous flower]

I mean two axe or two sword just like vikings in movie

[granite geyser]

https://www.valheimgame.com/news/development-blog-yuletide-treats

[mortal lichen]

I mean, when you pick no map you should have certain expectations ^^

[atomic flame]

I’m am a bit new to the server I’m curious to what the recycle ♻️ means

[stiff stag]

#suggestions message

[atomic flame]

Thanks

[pure patio]

I think the bigger issue is that you put them all as a single suggestion, which makes it hard to discuss or vote individually. The sliders and nomap and such are also barebones features that will eventually likely get some more attention but they have not been a priority currently.

[stiff stag]

The whistling part of the suggestion seems fine, but adding new items that would be completely useless under normal gameplay (when the map is being used) is ill advised. The most reasonable option related to that would be to make the wishbone gain that additional functionality, since it already serves a similar purpose and doesn't require a brand new item for a niche purpose. That also means that the better/easier option is more mid to late game, while early game up until then you would still need to use the existing valid options to locate things when no map is involved.

Another thought is that the cartography table would be perfect for facilitating solutions to navigation in one way or another in a no map world. Expanding on that would likely be the best route to take.

[unkempt raven]

@tawny cipher you can throw away items whenever you want and they will despawn after 2 days unless they're in range of a base item, or you can throw them in the ocean and they despawn at once if it's deep enough.
You also get a thing that turns items into coal fairly early in the game (it requires iron and having found the trader).

[tawny cipher]

They despawn if they are throw away away from player built structures???? well them makes sense why my ocean side dump pile hasn't despawned

[unkempt raven]

I recommend playing the game or at least asking how stuff works before suggesting changes. :p

[tawny cipher]

@unkempt raven #screenshots Boy why didn't I think of that

[mortal lichen]

Well...why didn't you if you have 300 hours? ^^

[tawny cipher]

because in my time playing I haven't ever experience a item despawn from whence i threw it, and my only know method of disposal is a Obliterator or sending the items off in a ship and throwing them out to sea.

granted like i said in my previous message, before his snarky remark, I never took the time to travel outside my base and throw the items away somewhere away from player built structures

🫶

[runic patio]

I've lived this in the past, even with trusted friends, there's always ONE that can't resist and brings at least an item (lived this w/ Terraria)...

Given I like these people even though I can't trust'm, I still play with them regardless as they are more important than the game :p

Though we don't play Terraria anymore (and I don't even propose Valheim) because when this is done essentially all progression is broken.

[silk halo]

they should give us like airport metal detectors, each time player walks through is scanned for contraband, and said contraband gets deleted

[scenic ocean]

While i do love the interesting geographies of the Biomes, i think having the Deep North being sparse would really set it apart from all the other biomes.

That and the idea of a sneaky snowy deathsquito like enemy lunging out of the snow is appealing to me as an enemy.

[pearl cave]

If I recall correctly they will also despawn after a while if they are under deep enough water, even if within your base.

[amber wind]

I made an outhouse in our base over a shoreline, dug a deep water hole underneath (as deep as you can make one before you start swimming). Anything we don't want we just toss into the hole of the outhouse. Out of sight, out of mind. It does seem like the stuff despawns after a few days, even though it is within sight of our main building.

[short wing]

Correct, things underwater you can't pick up aren't protected by despawning even if player base items are near.

[amber wind]

The only thing is that the troll hides don't fit through the outhouse hole... (they are roughly the same size as a rug when dropped). So those we toss overboard when we are sailing...lol.

[short wing]

I love the idea of an outhouse for dumping extra stuff till you can get the ||obliterator||.

[main monolith]

So what do you all have against Crafting from the inventory of a near by chest? Being able to use the inventory of a chest that is near say with in 2m of the crafting table, forge, etc.

[short wing]

It certainly would make crafting easier or having the ability to load a crafting table with goods and it will craft from there instead of a connected chest would be nice.

Though it would require loads of work by the developers to make it work.
For some people it would also break the immersion.
It isn't something that fits into game.
There are probably other reasons people down-vote it.

[main monolith]

I disagree with the immersion because if you have a box with supplies next to your workbench you are going to pull directly from the box. As for the work from the developer. I’m not sure it would since you already have to place certain items within 2m to upgrade. The crafting table could use the inventory from a Chest within 2m.

[stiff stag]

Arguing about immersion is rather silly when you already have a detached inventory system that doesn't make much logical sense. Allowing the player to use items from a nearby chest when using a work bench is far more reasonable in that regard.

Also, a reason for the down votes is generally because the idea is a duplicate that's been suggested many times before.

[short wing]

Not saying that it is logical, just saying that for some people it might break immersion, they want to get the stuff they need, walk to the forge and make the stuff.

Having to place certain items near a crafting station isn't the same as pulling stuff from a chest nearby, how does it decide which chest to pull from?
How would you link a chest to the bench, you can fit a whole lot of chests in a circle around the crafting station.
Would they need to make a new chest that works as an upgrade to the crafting station?

[short wing]

Also the developers have said that it won't be happening, if I'm not mistaken.

[stiff stag]

Yeah, that's also a natural reason for getting downvotes or lack of support from those that are aware of the rejection.

At that point nothing else matters, and doesn't matter how good or bad the idea actually is. Once the developers decide against it that idea is naturally off the table for suggestions.

[wanton atlas]

Crafting from chests is a no from us developers

[rose swan]

It would also be lame imo for Valheim- one of my favorite things about Valheim is that your base really feels like it organically grows right alongside with you. Where you decide to store your materials and other findings is just as important as where you put your forge, defenses, crops, etc. crafting from a chest isn’t a quality of life feature, it’s the removing a feature. Base logistics is simply part of the game.

It’s the same reason why boars/wolves/etc don’t keep on breeding and breeding until you have 200 boar in a pen ripe for the slaughter imo. It detracts from the base management and makes you think less and keeps the player less engaged.

Also, Valheim doesn’t have near the amount of mass-crafting as some other games, so crafting from a chest wouldn’t really add much.

[wanton atlas]

We activly want the player to put things into the inventory, go to the workbench, and craft

[pure patio]

@sonic musk you can toggle off auto-pickup when going to get your grave and that will fix the issue you're running into

[short wing]

Now only to get mass crafting for a select few things and all will be good. ;p
Making batches of soup, salads or arrows would be neat.

[wanton atlas]

magking 9000 carrot-soup in 1 batch

no ty 😄

[short wing]

Nah that would be excessive but like a whole stack or three per time, Having 30 (90) eggs and 30 (90) jotun puffs gives 10 (30) omelettes.
Takes the same amount as you would normally do but just doesn't need the 10 clicks.
While that is cooking you have time to get a drink take a wiz, search something on the net or stare into nothing.

[wanton atlas]

you have to endure for now until we can give (if we can) give some love to the crafting UI

[short wing]

Yeah, it would be nice to have but won't be a big deal if it never gets done.

[rose swan]

#suggestions message I’ve always kinda thought it would be cool to have weirdwood look-a likes from Game of Thrones 😅 but that’s probably more in the realm of mods.

[sonic musk]

I don't think that will solve the issue. I gave one example, but if you do a corpse run with a bow and arrows and you had bow and arrows in the same slots in your tombstone, it won't pick up any of your items. That's the fundamental issue, not whether or not I have stray items in my inventory. It was just one example but I appreciate your advice

[pure patio]

If you do the corpse run completely naked you will always have room for everything in your inventory. The other alternative would be to fully gear up to make the area safe again so you can thoughtfully pick from the gravestone, etc.. I don't think stacking is a bad thing, i'm just giving you the alternatives that exist right now. Part of the issue is also general mechanics... what happens if you have rocks in your inventory when picking up your gravestone, they stack, and it puts you over 450 total weight? It brings up a lot of edge cases that are hard to solve or manage.

[sonic musk]

The exact thing that happened was my body died in water. (I was using the water debuff to negate some of the Gjall's fire damage) so to retrieve my body, guarded by ticks and a Gjall, I have to jump in the water.

Once I do, I'm swarmed by ticks and I'll soon be shot by a Gjall. I was carrying extra healing potions and stamina potions on my death run because I knew I would need them.

Once I got out of the water I would need to pop a health potion and stamina potion.

Except one of the potions must have randomly been in the same slot as some rabbit meat or something and now I'm waist deep in water in a "choose what items you want" menu with 3 ticks jumping on my back, no armor, no weapons, and a Gjall about to one shot me.

This is what I am intending to avoid. If an item in your tombstone takes up the same slot as an item from your current inventory, the item in your tombstone should stack to the nearest available space.

If there's no space, leave that item in your tombstone. That should avoid most edge cases and since most players remember where their weapons and armor go in their inventory, they would put their additional items away from there and guarantee their tombstone pickup gives them the items they need to survive.

The best version of picking up your tombstone should be
Stack all items in the same place. If an item in the tombstone takes up the same slot as an item from your inventory, leave that item behind. If you're encumbered from doing this, the heaviest item stack fully drops off.

This is a lot to ask for, I know. But once the game is fully developed and we have all the biomes, QoL fixes like this would go a long way to making frustrating and avoidable interactions a lot smoother and lets the player focus on survivability not edge case mechanics that you have to avoid because everyone knows to avoid those specific edge cases

[patent heron]

That's disappointing my idea for the Ashland's didn't show up made some good points

[granite geyser]

How do you know if the update hasn't been released?

[patent heron]

Fount out why

[patent heron]

Stupid question, they would announce it

[granite geyser]

I'm completely sure the ashlands gen is set in stone and won't change so suggesting changes to it that drastic is pointless

It's like telling them to pretty much backtrack on months of work

[granite geyser]

What?

[outer crown]

#suggestions message at least the first part about it being one big island should come true 😄

[rose swan]

Volcanoes are definitely cool! But yeah, I’m sure Ashlands is already set in stone 🙂

[hazy notch]

Very very hot stone. :P

[short wing]

Volcanoes are hot, sizzling hot.

[granite geyser]

@olive yacht

"A trophy to fill the hole in the trophy collection"

Which hole?

I don't know what you talk about, especially when Brenna and geirrhafa aren't even bosses

So idk what you mean by "between" them

[unreal schooner]

between Scylla and Charybdis

[amber wind]

#suggestions message I like this suggestion, of using the armor stand as a way to quickly change outifts. Like maybe holding "E" causes you to swap out all the armor pieces on it with the ones you have currently equipped, and auto equip them (with the usual time to equip each piece like it normally does when you rapidly equip multiple armor pieces). It would be awesome to not have to put armor pieces on the number bar to put them on the armor stand. So swapping them for the equipped items would alleviate that pain.

[silk halo]

in the mob/boss lore section ig

[hot willow]

#suggestions message
I like this one. If enemies emerged from the snow, similar to abominations, but huge giants like the ones we collected brains from in the mistlands

[granite geyser]

Huge giants just being very hard to see while buried in the snow, makes sense.

Creatures x10 bigger than you must be masters at stealth

[unkempt raven]

Scandinavian folklore troll noises.

[main monolith]

I see your point, but I would like to point out that you can craft while you are encumbered, which is essentially the same as crafting from a chest inventory.

[wanton atlas]

yes and no

1. you have them in your inventory.
2. you don't craft from a chest inventory

[main monolith]

I get that, but the primary reason I was given was that it was emersion-breaking. I'm not trying to give you a hard time; I'm just pointing it out.

[wanton atlas]

I would love to have it even more realistic personally

have you ever seen the game Hydroneer?

[main monolith]

No, I have not. BTW, I just started playing the game with my brother, and we do love the game. You all have done a great job.

But what is the reason for not having paddles? I'm genuinely curious and wondering if I am missing something when traveling by water.

[unkempt raven]

We have a paddle. :p

[granite geyser]

Ships already ha-

And all three ships have them

[mortal lichen]

All of them have one, look closer.

[main monolith]

the raft does not lol

[mortal lichen]

Well then maybe you should finish the game ^^

[main monolith]

you have a rudder and trying to travel aginst the wind is next to impossible

[granite geyser]

Works as a paddle

[main monolith]

not really

[granite geyser]

If it didn't, then we wouldn't be able to move the ship at all without wind...

[silk halo]

the raft is intentionally slow and cumbersome, better boats perform better

[granite geyser]

Play the game more

[main monolith]

https://tenor.com/view/no-shit-stranger-things-gaten-matarazzo-dustin-henderson-no-shit-sherlock-gif-17949381

[mortal lichen]

I mean, you should at least finish the game before making suggestions that are already in the game ^^

[amber wind]

My understanding is that the lowest propulsion setting on boats acts as "paddling". It's very slow, but it let's you go pretty much in any direction, regardless of wind or water currents. You can tell by the little icon of the oar paddling...

[wanton atlas]

indeed. you paddle with the oar

but an actual paddle would be like a canoe

[amber wind]

I remember in Conan the Destroyer when they are crossing the lake to the wizard's crystal palace...and conan is rowing the boat with a rear paddle/rudder device, which is kind of similar yes? I remember thinking, how does that propel them forward and not just in circles? 🤣

[ashen tinsel]

@grave cipher Sounds like you're describing the raft here. I wouldn't mind a ship skill to parallel the "riding" skill though.

[spare gull]

In real sailing it’s something called skulling (idk how to spell it) and it just means you move the rudder back and forth to move the boat

It’s more generally done on smaller boats, and more often done in tandem with someone else rocking the whole boat with the mast

[pure patio]

@brisk merlin you can build boats on dry land by holding shift when building

[open dagger]

i think i need to stop making any suggestions regading deathsquitos

[amber wind]

Nah, ignore the haters! Suggest away!

[open dagger]

33 thumbs down is a sign i think

but hey the stonegolem summoning one got accepted pretty positivly

[storm flax]

Everyone hates deathsquitos :D

[open dagger]

no i don't

[amber wind]

Just remember, everyone else's opinions don't matter...it's only the dev's opinions that matter.

[amber wind]

I think it would be awesome if you turned purple and bloated when the deathsquitos sting you, and then if you die, your corpse explodes into a half dozen more deathsquitos creating deathsquito swarms that roam the biomes hunting everything into extinction....except ashlands and mountain biomes where the cold/hot air instantly kills them...

[olive yacht]

that would cause the player to have less fun

they could be attacked over and over again especially with no armor

[grave cipher]

I feel like the kayak would be a good in between the raft and the karve. The kayak would also go as fast as you can paddle and as mentioned before, it will have a slower max speed than a karve, but won't be as sluggish as a raft. I feel like it could be useful for small scale sailing. Materials wise, it wont be as needy as the karve, needing less fine wood to make it, but you would likely need corewood to craft the paddles with the boat.

[amber wind]

Wait...this game is about having fun? WHEN?

[olive yacht]

well okay it could become unplayable at some point without mods

[amber wind]

Make them short lived so that if they don't feed on something they die after a few minutes?

[olive yacht]

how about less range

[amber wind]

I'd imagine a limited life span would also limit their range.

[olive yacht]

hmm if its minutes though

[amber wind]

30 seconds?

[olive yacht]

not a bad idea of less life span, maybe 2 minutes or 3?

they would revive in their house anyway

[amber wind]

Yeah, I'm sure it can be tailored for difficulty...balanced out...maybe adjusted by biome environment...where they last longer in swamps, forests, meadows...less in plains, mistlands, oceans and even less in mountains and ashlands (like almost instant death for the last ones)

[olive yacht]

i definitely think its possible and would be a nice fine detail to the game

[amber wind]

probably a PITA to code though...

[olive yacht]

im sure its difficult to add it especially now with ashlands, people are waiting excitedly, it takes priority

[pure patio]

Don't summon me unless you mean it 😛

[amber wind]

heh heh...it was an accident! I swear!

[olive yacht]

haha

i personally think effects like that could be done by multiple monsters, though it would be a lot of work

i.e by wolves you get mauled

[amber wind]

Yeah...instead of having deathsquitos roaming in twos or singles randomly, you could create a deathsquito spawner...like a hive or an infested corpse pile...and they would spawn every minute or so, and only last a 2 or 3 minutes before dying, unless they feed on something...which when the thing dies, it spawns more squiters....etc etc

[olive yacht]

personally i wish for more building cant do it for shit but my friends can for me

[amber wind]

It takes a little bit to master the system...and it can be fun. But I do get bored of building for the sake of building. I'm very much more an explorer/wanderer.

[olive yacht]

same lol

[finite vapor]

Yes I like to build in survival playthrough and mix it in with progression

[gray quarry]

Smiffe, if you are reading this, I rephrased the pickaxe suggestion to clarify that I am not suggesting digging in water us made easier, just less frustrating. I am fine with not being able to swing when my feet is not on the ground (a pickaxe does require a firm stance to wield effectively) but needing to constantly spam R to get it back in my hands, in time to get a swing off before next wave, is driving me crazy...

[open dagger]

amazing

[pure patio]

I think it's more that the intention is that we're not supposed to be able to dig deep canals easily, if at all.

[gray quarry]

It's not about digging deeper or really any easier than we can already, just to make what is possible less frustrating. I clear difficult passages where I often sail of rocks and shallows, not trying to dig a Panama canal 😅

[granite geyser]

I don't think I'll ever understand why people believe is important to know who votes...

[void warren]

Having a way to blast rocks out of waterways would be nice. I struggle with the waves too so totally get where that suggestion comes from. Even when building docks - but the new snap points we got made that so much better

[gray quarry]

Curiosity mostly in my case, but if devs downvote it's for a reason, in which case it matters of course

[gray quarry]

I get nerdy with it since I work with waterways irl hehe

And yes the new snapping made that bit soooo much better!

[granite geyser]

It's only one dev tho, smiffe's votes have the same weigh as the rest of us. He can disagree with something but the other 12 devs could agree, like the idea and implement it

[gray quarry]

I know, not a problem. It's just a suggestion anyway, but I am always curious about design decisions and the motivations behind them. Opens for discussion though, but if he doesn't feel like commenting he won't, and that's perfectly fine. 🙂

[hexed jewel]

#suggestions message i like the idea, generally, of a greater diversity of points of interests with practical & unique in-game rewards, and I think additional in-game ways to navigate/find stuff you want to find is a great reward (and a little more love for the no map peeps)

[barren vault]

know there have been map reveal suggestions before, but think limiting reveals to defined areas, rather than a reveal mechanic you can rinse and repeat to uncover everything, is better

[arctic wharf]

considering these runes (reveal on your map) certain aspects of the terrain, it is not all that help for for no-map.

I know it's not the most unique idea by now, but I might prefer towers we can get to the top of (either by simply climbing up or by earning a quick path to the top after some sort of trial). It just so elegantly provides points of interest that are spectacular for revealing the world.
With a map, you can have it reveal a large radius around the location once you reach the top.
Without a map, you can have all major POI's within a set distance project a light beam into the sky while you are at the top, allowing you to orientate yourself towards new locations you may have missed very easily.
Additionally, the fact they are tall structures makes them easy to spot from a distance with or without a map, allowing you to use them as major landmarks you can always make your way back to, to reorientate yourself.

.
Not at all unique by now, sure... but very efficient and straightforward

[hexed jewel]

@arctic wharf I like that idea about the towers. I realize I was kind of running with the concept and didn't really say what I had in mind--you're right no map wouldn't be helped by revealing, it could also indicate the location in other ways, I was thinking maybe with a visual indicator like a phantom trail, or arrow (or pillar of light kind of like you said) that comes up to 'point' you towards the direction of examples of what it locates, either just the nearest or all within a certain raidus, or maybe on use it could point your character's facing towards the closest example like the Vesgeirs do now (at least in/for no map I think that's how they are supposed to work, and thus still provide some use).

[arctic wharf]

yeah, many way's to go about such an addition for sure 🙂

[brisk merlin]

yea but when docked i dont like how my boats do eventually drift. I want to be able to fasten them to a pole or such

[amber wind]

How about when you click on the map markers, it PINGS the location in your world regardless of your distance from it? So you at least know the direction you need to head in for the No Map worlds. On outside world markers only...markers in dungeons are pretty much useless in No Map worlds.

[stiff stag]

As someone explained earlier, it already makes you face in the direction of the location, and there are methods you can use to remember the general direction to go in.

[amber wind]

It does? I never noticed.

[wintry bobcat]

How much no map have you played?

[amber wind]

I just logged in and touched the 1st Eikthyr marker stone and watched amazed as the camera panned to a certain position! AMAZING! Does it do that in Non No Map games too? Oh...no it doesn't...why not make it happen in both types of worlds? It is very subtle...but now that I know...I know that it I know.

[stiff stag]

Because you have a map with the pinned location shown, no need for it to make you face the direction in that situation.

[amber wind]

I guess you are right...but I still like the idea of indicating the camera panning in both modes...makes it seem like the markers have the same function regardless of the mode...just in one world you can't open the map.

[gray quarry]

I've seen many suggestions about actual loot out in the world from special locations, mini-bosses etcetera. I also know that the fact you do NOT get actual gear from any other source than crafting is pretty core to the game loop, so it is unlikely to change. But how about weapon/armour design variations as drops? For example, mini-boss X could drop its cool and awesome sword, broken beyond repair, but looting it would teach you the recipe to craft that appearance as a variation of the regular sword of the appropriate tier. Imo that would feel more rewarding than the various clothes Hildir will sell to me that I will never use anyway.

[rose swan]

That would be pretty neat. Probably the only thing I can think of that would be bad about that (if you could call it that) is that armor gets phased out. Say for example, the shouldering tomb gives you a variation of bronze or even iron armor, then once you progress you essentially lose that cosmetic variation. Of course, the armor would still look great on an armor stand.

Alternatively, the cosmetic(s) you unlock could apply to more armor sets/weapons than one.

[gray quarry]

Indeed, either way would be fine with me. As long as you need to actually craft the weapon I can't see any drawbacks with the design being possible to use with any weapon of that type. Would make me use black metal weapons more - or the troll suit for that matter, that blue is just...ugh.

[rose swan]

I agree though, it would be really neat to have something a little more than clothes. Not trying to be greedy or anything, but it is kind of a bummer that the only reward is clothes. I kinda don’t even care to turn in the chests to be honest. Personally I like the idea of having alternate/reskins of furniture and other objects.

[granite geyser]

"I kinda don't even care to turn in the chests to be honest"

Congrats, you found the entire point of hildir

People get frustrated when not finding Haldor and that's because what he sells is actually useful, just one thing he sells makes it worth the effort to find him...

Do people really think is a good idea to have the same thing again for hildir?

This POV essentially tells me "I actively look for ways to frustrate myself and I wish devs add more of those" rather than "I want this feature to be more rewarding".

Hildir is supposed to be optional, if you don't like what she sells then ignore her. Simple

[rose swan]

Let me rephrase and further explain then. I find the weakest part about Hildir to be the rewards, despite them being entirely optional. The quests and dungeons themselves are still a lot of fun and offer nice decorative awards (trophies) and in one case, an early food item/tame.

I think it would be awful to have rewards that are particularly powerful- we discussed before if the her outfits were specialized (miner set, logger set, etc) and I agreed with you that giving them unique bonuses will in a roundabout way make Hildir feel necessary.

With that being said, I think the rewards being purely cosmetic (alternate furniture, alternative cosmetics for armor, etc) is the best route to take, and still retains Hildir being optional.

#valheim-chat message

[silk halo]

i just wonder the point of adding things most players will skip

[rose swan]

Well, it’s about adding options I’d say. For example, most build pieces are just extra and are ‘skippable’ in a sense.

[gray quarry]

I'm skipping nearly everything to do with magic, simply because I don't like it. But all the players playing the Viking Mage wouldn't regard the staves etc as pointless...

[rose swan]

Not every piece of content is going to be for every player.

[gray quarry]

Not a perfect comparison, but having choices and options is never a bad thing

[silk halo]

if the game had a hundred quests and 50 side quests and this was one of them that you could skip it'd be fine, but it isn't, it's the only side quest in the game rn, making it preferable to avoid just doesn't make any sense

[rose swan]

How would you change it? 🙂

[silk halo]

yeh tough one, to make it worthwhile either Hildir sells a rare item that's useful glider, the bosses drop something better, making the starred raids worth taking, better loot from the dungeons they occupy, etc etc

[hazy notch]

maybe plantable berries (a fairly common suggestion) could be locked behind it? (Raspberries from tomb, Blueberries from cavern, Cloudberries from tower?) A nice to have, but not a need to have? Largely just another decorative thing, but functional enough to feel rewarding if you're not necessarily interested in the other stuff?

[silk halo]

giving the bosses food drops would be cool, allowing us to collect more each raid to make a unique recipe that's appropriate for the zone the boss occupies

[granite geyser]

Those are resources used throughout the game. Definitely not "largely just a decorative thing", they're mostly functional

[hazy notch]

I would disagree? By the time you're completing Hildurs, everything but cloudberries has phased out of use.

[granite geyser]

I think I've seen ideas about some foods not giving you that much hp/stamina but instead giving you some bonuses.

Which doesn't sound bad in theory

[gray quarry]

Although I understand why there are no gear drops I do agree the clothes from Hildir were underwhelming. They are pretty much only useful to base pixies or as decoration, which is fine, I love stuff like that, but when it is the only thing you get from doing the quests it does become a bit meh. Having them complemented with recipes for cosmetic variants of gear you actually use would go a long way to make it feel more worthwhile.

[silk halo]

ye, well the point is there's a lot they could do, and i would have done all that from the beginning, build pieces and planting berry bushes are no no, but other ideas that aren't on the no list can easily fit in and make the experience something a player desires to engage with rather than ignore

[granite geyser]

Fair

[silk halo]

the fact we're disillusioned with it shows that currently it's not the best it could be

[finite vapor]

Same brother I despise magic, playing a completely different game just waltzing around fire balling everything safely with a super bubble around you

[rose swan]

Could have bushes be high priced- maybe like 500 gold- so players have to work especially hard to get a really good berry farm at their base. Cool idea though, you should pitch it in suggestions 🤷🏼‍♂️

[eternal wyvern]

the real rewards from Hildir's is the new raids 😄

[gray quarry]

I must say I do appreciate my growing collection of Brenna trophies...

And it is fun getting to see the rancid remains once in a while, they're pretty rare in the tombs and once you're past the Forest you have no reason to ever enter them again

[rose swan]

The real reward is the friends we made along the way 😁

[rose swan]

I feel like a boat that you could “fold up and put in your pocket” would greatly decrease the point of having a dock, and would honestly ultimately subtract a lot from the sailing aspect of the game, generally speaking.

[gray quarry]

Agreed, I am no fan of having to chop my long ship to pieces, but it sure is preferable to having the local necks destroy it overnight while I'm busy crafting/farming/whatever. The best solution to all of that would be creatures simply not aggroing on boats unless there is a player in fact ON that boat.

[hexed jewel]

i don't see a really good reason to not just let the hammer break boats & carts down the same way it works for most of the things the hammer builds, since we literally can just do that anyway as is, just takes a very minor amount more time using a weapon to break it instead of the hammer

[wintry bobcat]

I like that there's some risk to leaving your property out in the open

[rose swan]

Main reason is to prevent accidental destruction and losing all your cargo

[wintry bobcat]

Letting hammer break it down sounds fine to me tho

[rose swan]

Maybe if there was a prompt to confirm before breaking it?

Even then, still seems a little risky.

Oh, and 100% Derleth, I hate when my boat gets destroyed while I’m busy doing something and didn’t even realize it was being attacked lol

[gray quarry]

Yeah, but since you can in fact circumvent that by chopping the boat up every time you make landfall that is kinda moot. I'd prefer if boats didn't draw aggro so easily so I could have my boats actually in my port even when I'm not using them. I'd also appreciate some manner of closing off the port entrance so random greys won't swim in and start hacking away on my ships...

[rose swan]

This is a hot take, but I’d actually kinda like if boats didn’t drop all their materials when destroyed, If there was a rework where it wouldn’t be attacked if a player wasn’t on it or something.

[hexed jewel]

honestly that kinda makes some sense to me too @rose swan

[rose swan]

I guess the better middle ground is that some of the materials potentially sink and could be lost 🙂

[gray quarry]

Agreed, but all built items drop their mats when destroyed, no? So removing boats from that would be weird

[hexed jewel]

@gray quarry ALMOST all

i don't think the accidental deconstruct is really a risk, since when would you ever have the hammer out, unless of course you were getting very near shore to drop a bench and repair--and doubly so if you're now operating in an environment where you know "oh, a misclick COULD deconstruct this" and now have extra reason to just not idly have your hammer equipped on the boat

[rose swan]

Yeah, it would definitely be weird. I think boats are the only objects that can’t be destroyed by a hammer though?

[gray quarry]

Cart too

[hexed jewel]

I think the boat losing some of the wood/non-metal mats could be good 'compromise' balancing thing

[rose swan]

Ah, I couldn’t remember if the cart could or couldn’t be destroyed via hammer.

Only objects I can think of that doesn’t give you full resources back would be stuff like campfires. Obviously, some of the materials go into fuel, so it is different.

Really though, I just want those damn necks to stop destroying my boat 😂

[gray quarry]

That's just it isn't it? I can accept a troll wading out and destroying my ship when I have foolishly come too close to shore, or a wraith swooping down sinking both me and my karve, or any other misfortune happening when actually using the vessel. But when random wildlife chews it up out of spite, I get triggered...

[amber wind]

lol..."accidentally destroyed my boat with the hammer in the middle of the ocean"...that's something you do only ONCE...and then you learn not to (or else perhaps you shouldn't really play Valheim). It's not a good enough excuse to remove it from the game.

[gray quarry]

Wouldn't even be possible unless the "add workbench on boats" suggestion would ever gain favor...

[amber wind]

I also think the idea of "desconstructing" the boat is different from "destroying" the boat...or any other object for that matter. I like the idea that anything you chop down or monsters destroy the materials are LOST...while if you deconstruct it with a hammer, you get the materials back. I would even change it so that as the durability of the object gets lower and lower, deconstructing gives you back less materials. So then it gives an incentive to repair things before you deconstruct.

[hexed jewel]

those necks are some SOBs

@amber wind yeah that could be a good way to go with t

[rose swan]

That’s a good point, didn’t think about that

[amber wind]

I guess perhaps the one argument against deconstructing boats with the hammer is...griefers...but I feel like they still can find a way, so either option is fine.

[gray quarry]

Griefers can barely even be an issue within the official scope of Valheim (10 person max co-op) so that could not realistically be a factor in this case

I know there are servers letting any random in, pewpew and whatnot, but since that is not really in the realm of what Valheims is aiming for they're pretty much on their own

[amber wind]

Yeah, so if griefers are out of scope...why can't we deconstruct boats and carts with the hammer?

[unkempt raven]

It's a failsafe so you don't accidentally deconstruct it and lose (almost) all the mats.

[gray quarry]

But since that can only happen within range of a workbench, how big of an issue is that really?

[amber wind]

My opinion is, let them lose all their mats...it's the only way to learn them.

[unkempt raven]

You're more likely to have your hammer equipped within range of a workbench so that's where it would mainly be an issue anyway.

[gray quarry]

For the record - personally I'd prefer if there was less incentive to deconstruct them - i.e. mobs wouldn't destroy boats when you're not actually on the boat. But if that is somehow not the way they want to go, deconstructing with a hammer would feel better than chopping my darling long ship up with an axe...

[unkempt raven]

I've never seen the point in deconstructing boats. On the rare occasions where I'm close enough to the boat for mobs to spawn and attack it it's generally easy to hear it and stop them.

[amber wind]

True, and I've never seen the point in not being able to deconstruct the boats...if you accidentally fat finger your boat, then next time just be more careful.

[unkempt raven]

The only time I'd deconstruct a boat is if I were to carry it overland to continue sailing on the other side of a landmass (fittingly enough sort of emulating what the vikings did when crossing between waterways).

[gray quarry]

Depends on how you place your main base. This time I have apparently managed to build in a manner that swimming greydorfs end up along the outer walls instead of swimming into the port. Last world they'd regularly smash my long ship up, and the port was so deep the nails would be lost forever. That it happens when you aren't even there to do something about it is the frustrating bit.

[unkempt raven]

Just wall in your harbour.

[gray quarry]

Needs to be a gap for the boats. A karve is small enough for a regular gate to close it off - but long ships are way too big for that. And as long as there's an opening, the mobs will eventually get in

[rose swan]

Ooooh what if we had a sea gate 👀 ||wishful thinking lol||

[gray quarry]

This time I'm just building regular stake walls when I know I won't be leaving port in a while, then I deconstruct them when I need my ship. It's awkward, but it works

[amber wind]

Just larger doors is all that's needed right? Or maybe a gate that opens vertically...

[gray quarry]

And I don't need to chop up my darling long ship

[gray quarry]

That or a chain across the gap, as in some pirate movies..

[amber wind]

heh heh...I kind of treat my boats as disposable. After it's made, I expect it to be lost.

[gray quarry]

With rafts, hell yeah, and karves - well mkay, but the long ship, hell know I went through pain for those iron bars!

[amber wind]

Yeah, that's why I haven't really invested in a long ship yet. But I'm still pretty early in the game.

I don't mind them being busted up, just park them in shallow waters.

When they explode, you get the iron back, right? As long as it's not in deep water?

Can you build something like an underwater shelf to park your boat in? That way if it does get destroyed, you can at least go jump-diving into the water to get the mats back?

[gray quarry]

Yep, if the nails sink too deep you can't get to them, the rest floats iirc

[gray quarry]

That is a bloody clever thought, I need to try that. With the heaving of waves that might just smash both the platform and boat to pieces, but it's worth a try...

[amber wind]

Yeah, getting all the mats back when things get destroyed really removes the risk...it's more just an inconvenience that you have to rebuild the thing again.

yeah...you need to make it wide enough to accomodate your crappy sailing technique. 😜

PS. I'm teasing...I'm sure your sailing is fine.

[wintry bobcat]

I mean I’d say main use is that if you play with portals you can bring your boat across the world instantaneously instead of having to sail

[amber wind]

Ooooh...can you bring nails through a portal normally? Or do you need to adjust world modifiers for that?

[unkempt raven]

Nails go through portals.

[gray quarry]

Good point. I rarely do that though, I prefer to "play straight" and sail both directions, but I will pack up my boat before leaving for any prolonged strolls. Lost too many nails to angry necks and greys...

[amber wind]

In either case, you can chop your boat up to transport it through the portal right?

[gray quarry]

Yes

[amber wind]

So...then deconstructing isn't necessary...it would just be more convenient. 😉

[gray quarry]

Exactly

Deconstructing in an orderly manner feels better than chopping your ship to fuck with an axe. End result is the same

[amber wind]

heh heh...but you don't accidentally chop your boat up...that would be crazy!

[gray quarry]

Well, I've seen it happen. Involved my brother and a couple of deathsquitos attacking us from shore...

Long walk home it was

[amber wind]

What?! Seems like then, the only solution to not accidentally destroying your boat is to make them indestructible.

[gray quarry]

Or not swinging madly with your axe while still on board... Me, I was screaming "JUMP ASHORE, FIGHT ON LAND" and he like "¤%¤ these insects, KILL YOU... and then we had no boat

[amber wind]

lol...sounds like a time that will forever be remembered. Good times!

[gray quarry]

hell yeah

Lol just logged in to see thre necks doing their damndest to sink my long ship

Bloody lizards!

[amber wind]

We need an item you can hang from the mast of the ship that repels Necks.

[gray quarry]

Ballista mount + neck trophy

[pure patio]

You can build a couple campfires on the shore where you park, it will keep necks from spawning close enough to be aware of its existence

[gray quarry]

I have various torches and a couple of braziers on each side...

[amber wind]

I think campfires stop spawns in a certain radius. Pita for the win!

[gray quarry]

Any "base item" has the same effect, work bench, standing torch etc etc

[amber wind]

Ah...but it doesn't stop other spawns from eventually destroying the campfires...the only solution is MOAR campfires!

[gray quarry]

Don't think anything attacks campfires tho, or am I wrong? They do take damage when creatures walk on them

[unkempt raven]

Campfires aren't attacked on sight, iirc they're the only base item that isn't.

[amber wind]

Why aren't campfires attacked?

[pure patio]

Because they can occur in the overworld like in villages and such, and they don't want the boars and so on to attack them I don't believe. Bonfires as well.

Really nice thing is that campfires don't take a workbench to build, and they don't have to be lit in order to suppress spawns.

[amber wind]

I can see that boars and forest creatures might be afraid of fire (which is why they attack torches with a vengeance, I assumed)...but the higher level creatures? Fulings, skeletons, draugr?

[unkempt raven]

And they can be hidden fairly well by covering them with dirt.

[pure patio]

Not being afraid of fire, it's that they're not aggressive to it whether it's lit or not. That way Fulings don't attack the campfires and bonfires in their camps, etc.

[amber wind]

It really sounds to me like the devs have left an open exploit to cheese the game. Oh well, now I know and I will exploit it everywhere I can.

[hexed jewel]

what's the exploit, campfires, breaking boats?

[amber wind]

Campfires are not targets for mobs to destroy, and stop spawns from spawning.

[granite geyser]

As said in the msgs that are less than one scroll away

[hexed jewel]

ahhh, honestly I think that's intentional--besides the ways people mentioned that if that weren't the case, the natural structures could/would be attacked by mobs there, I also think the devs want us to have multiple different ways to control spawns

i mean, if they DID make all things that block spawns also be targets for mobs, it would technically just add the extra hassle of throwing up a stakewall or whatever (to block LoS) around each, to get the same effect

[amber wind]

Sure, I'm not against making it hard to destroy the campfires, but making it so that they never destroy them opens an avenue to severely exploit the game. Just bury a campfire every 5 feet and suddenly there are no spawns to worry about...ever.

[hexed jewel]

i think that's the point though--to allow a player to decisively control spawns in an area, if they want to

[amber wind]

Flipping that over then, if you encounter a mob village with a campfire, is there an exploit that if you destroy the campfire in the area, then the mobs will destroy their own structures?

[hexed jewel]

the fire isn't what makes them hostile or not, they're by default not hostile to most structures

[amber wind]

So it's only some of the mobs?

[hexed jewel]

just a few, some of the ones that tend to block spawns, so destroying a campfire won't change their aggression towards the structures

[amber wind]

That's fine...make the campfire something that some mobs will destroy (but others ignore) would easily fix the exploit. It's just that if ALL mobs won't target it that it becomes an exploit.

[hexed jewel]

it's all mobs, all mobs attack objects under one of two conditions: (1) it's one of the "always attack this thing" objects, like boats, carts, workbenches, etc.; or (2) they have aggro on a player, and then lose line of sight; in this case, they WILL attack nearby objects (including structures they generated/natural generation structures) for a brief period, until they either de-aggro or regan LoS on player

[amber wind]

So then, mobs will destroy them, but only if they aggro and then lose LoS to the player?

[hexed jewel]

yes

[amber wind]

Ah...that's good. Then the only issue is being able to bury them. 🙂

[hexed jewel]

so if you're like, near your fire, then you pop inside a little hut you have when a greydwarf walks up, they'll pick stuff nearby they can still see to attack (possibly the campfire)

[amber wind]

But if you are near their settlement, and you aggro them, then lose LoS, can you trigger them to start attacking their own structures?

[hexed jewel]

yes, they to my knowledge have no in-game distinction between structures, player built or natural

[amber wind]

AHA! Another exploit!

I will use it and abuse it!

[hexed jewel]

lol, well i dunno how useful that one would be--most of the time, if you were interested in that structure they're attacking ,getting attacked, you could do so yourself, faster

the one time 'baiting' mobs to attack stuff does seem useful is when you are early and may not have the ability to break a certain thing--like you don't have a pick yet or you don't have an ax strong enough to cut a particular kind of tree--then baiting a troll or something that can damage those sorts of objects, is really useful

[pure patio]

I mean... at some point it just becomes prohibitive to use those and not terribly beneficial. I use campfires to keep things away from my base, and to keep growths from respawning in a mined out tar pit, but I also many times don't do that because I want the spawns. I think it's a self-limiting mechanic that is a bit of an "exploit", but it is far from being game-breaking at any level.

[amber wind]

Maybe something in the Deep North will aggressively attack campfires with prejudice?

And be able to manipulate or ignore terrain so you can't bury them too?

Or ignore the campfires and still spawn mobs?

How much more difficult would the game become then, in your opinions?

[pure patio]

Well, that's a core mechanic of the game. Enemies shouldn't spawn inside your house, and a campfire is one of the core initial structures you make so it's very much intentional.

[amber wind]

Imagine how awesome it would be if in the last biome, mobs can spawn anywhere, at any time. You'd constantly be on your toes. I like it.

Dial the difficulty to 11.

[lime temple]

we gotta get a new boat please!!!

[hexed jewel]

@amber wind or a kind of hybrid like that, where there's a naturally spawning object that causes in a VERY big radius enemies to spawn (and ignores the usual spanw blocking) forcing you to hunt down and destroy it first to be able to block spawns 'like normal'

[wintry bobcat]

I dunno kinda defeats the purpose of building a base

[amber wind]

It certainly does not. Just makes it more difficult to maintain one.

[winged dove]

Big harpoon balista on it, tho tbf a new boat seems kinda pointless since nothing there can really harm you

Maybe they could make a ring of storms to reach the deep north or something which would require a new tier of ship to survive

I would love if they added more large serpent esq monsters in the ocean. I love sailing in the game but I'd love some more risk to be introduced

I always thought a pair of monsters based on Charybdis and Scylla would be cool

Or maybe druager ships

Something to keep you on your toes

[wintry bobcat]

Well building defenses for it seems useless. If mobs can spawn inside your walls or right next to your ballistas and just take them out

[rose swan]

Absolutely not, that sounds extremely frustrating lol

[hexed jewel]

#suggestions message maybe thematically appropriate to have it drain their health and give the user some portion of it?

[lime temple]

I think so too

and boats are just COOL and sailing is amazing I definitely want more content on that

[hexed jewel]

#suggestions message i have always found it very strange that the shield ONLY gives you XP IF it breaks and specifically from DAMAGE--i.e. NOT natural expiration--thus, in practice actually, at least IME, I find you hardly EVER actually trigger that (either you're constantly refreshing the buff slightly before it ends, or its expiring without a mob around to 'last hit' the barrier); I think that should be changed, however, to make it so each casting does in fact more reliably provide XP

[rose swan]

I dont really think building campfires to prevent spawning is an exploit. Players should be able to define their base and they should be able to be safe. Exception of course is obviously raids, but obviously that’s an intended feature, and the exception proves the rule imo

[winged dove]

I like that, maybe drains hp to cast but then teathers you to nearby mobs draining them

Number of teathers can relate to the item level, maybe length of tether by magic level

I could see drain scaling becoming a little powerful so maybe have that fixed

[granite geyser]

@winged dove

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=823069006140110&set=a.546110200502660&type=3

[winged dove]

Ooo that looks very cool!

Is that a teaser from mistlands?

[granite geyser]

Ashlands.

If it was from mistlands we would already have it

[winged dove]

Since refreshing bubble doesn't refresh its hp you can get more pops by recasting

But yeah is odd

Yeah @granite geyser i brain farted lol

Or maybe wishful thinking

#suggestions message

Would be nice, I'd even be fine with it only being a visual change at 50%. Like it starts cracking or flickering

[granite geyser]

Visual information that doesn't involve cluttering the interface as if you had a futuristic visor over your eyes all the time should be a standard.

Especially in games where immersion is important

[amber wind]

You call it frustrating...I call it challenging. 😋

[amber wind]

THen you'd just need a new strategy to keep your base safe...like maybe wolves that can maneuver around obstacles and attack at close distances?

I dunno, I just like the idea that for the last biome of the game (as there is nothing new to do after this biome is conquered) you take all those strategies you've learned from earlier in the game (you call them strategies, I call them exploits) and turn them on their head. It would make the endgame exciting...instead of just the same old boring strategies you've used since day 1.

After all, adaptability and learning new strategies is the player's greatest strength in this game.

[winged dove]

#suggestions message

Yes please. Maybe some way to get them to sit on boat decks?

[rose swan]

#suggestions message I actually really like this idea!

[void warren]

Yeah that sounds interesting 😄

[stiff stag]

As long as there's a setting for that for people that don't want a no-portal experience of any kind. Otherwise it just comes off as trying to partially push/force a no-portal playstyle onto others, while the suggestion won't affect those that already play without portals anyway.

[void warren]

Add a new world modifier for always portals might work, but then gets complicated with the allowing ores. Would have to do some sort of toggle for both separate

[wintry bobcat]

Yea pushing no portals modifier was a bit of concern when I suggested it too. Just think it would be cool having deep north a seperate continent that you would have to physically journey to and fight through, making it feel more dangerous and prestigous.

I was thinking it might be alright since you can still place portals everywhere else, and the closest island to deep north prob wouldn't be too far away (or hell, even raising ground and building a little ocean hut right outside deep north border). Still a bit concerning to restrict portals from those who like them

[rose swan]

Maybe there could be a new material (just spitballing a name) like a frost core which allows for portals to work in the DN? This way, you still initially have to tackle the biome, but once you get some footing you can teleport as per usual if you wish.

[wintry bobcat]

Could be but I honestly would want DN to stay portal less the whole run, make the final biome feel really special. Still not out of the question

I've seen a lot of advanced portal suggestions (allow ore transport, allow pet transport, allow boat transport, open overlay to teleport to any portal in world, etc.) but they seem to usually be received negatively

[rose swan]

Personally I like your initial idea, it would certainly make the Deep North feel a lot more like a finale.

[void warren]

That would be neat

[wintry bobcat]

Only thing is that no portals is a much bigger challenge than it sounds. The amount of preparation required gets pretty extreme especially that late game (pretty much have to set up an entire base in deep north complete with most stuff), which would prob be a bit too big a shock for someone who has always hopped through a portal to get rested, repaired, restocked on food, etc.

I never knew the potential challenges and prepwork needed until I started playing no portals

At least it's only a small sail to a nearby island to hop through a portal tho

[void warren]

I hope to see DN and Ashland mechanics rely on each other in some way. So getting a core in DN lets you build portals in ashlands kind of thing. And vice versa. But might not feel right if the progression is linear go to ashlands first

[wintry bobcat]

could be interesting if the deep north progression included Ashlands. Like "get x frost item from Deep North. Go to Ashlands. Use the extreme temperature from a lava geyser in ashlands, and the extreme temperature of the frost item, to forge an ashlands metal into weapon/armor/buildings of Deep North tier"

That would be seperate from the current Ashlands progression tho, which would just stay as is

Prob a B I G hassle on no map / no portal tho

could also be other way around. fire item brought to cold geyser

[void warren]

Seeing ashlands weapons get stronger once you bring them to the deep north would be neat, etc

[wintry bobcat]

like an upgrade? would be interesting

[void warren]

Or even bringing normal weapons to ashlands and upgrading them there. I guess I'm just hyped for the next biome 😄 lol

[wintry bobcat]

Does seem like a lot of ashlands weapons have a unique upgrade path already

[silk halo]

@sly crescent i get that yr going by real world weights/sizes, but what you suggest would alter game balance and wouldn't give much benefit for doing so, just having more cookable fish isn't a compelling reason

although i agree in principal that fishing could use some more love, i don't think that's the way

[amber wind]

@fluid goblet Do you mean 'autopickup' the difference between what you can carry unencumbered from the quantity on the ground? You can pick up the excess and become encumbered, then open your inventory, shift click the amount you need/want to drop and toss it out of your inventory back on the ground. It's not as elegant, or easy to do when being chased by a troll but it works.

[fluid goblet]

I mean interacting with a stack that would encumber you and getting just what you can carry

it's just to save time of sorting/counting it yourself

[sly crescent]

that makes sense, i honestly really love the game balance you all have going i just wish there was a way to fill a fishing chest lol

[sly crescent]

i also like watching the fish swim in the water and was vaguely hoping for more in the water to see

[sly crescent]

and the water visuals you all have are beautiful

[arctic wharf]

Perhaps I should re-post my fish / fishing suggestion from before the discord wipe 🤔

But yeah, I would love an expansion to fish as well for sure.

🐟 💙

[gray quarry]

I'd be all for that IF the bigger sea monsters would only spawn if triggered by players at a certain progress, like different levels of raids. It wouldn't be fair to early explorers in troll armour in a karve to run into sea monsters that they have no chance of escaping

[silk halo]

karve can outrun a serpent and if you get a finewood bow they should be fightable at that stage

[gray quarry]

They really need to be careful with tossing in tougher enemies in the ocean considering it is the travel medium for players from the very beginning. Just going by distance from the world centre wouldn't be enough imo, since occasionally you'll have elder altars nearly at the edge of the map. Scary journey as is for a player in the bronze age - with Ashlands-level serpents swimming around remote waters, mayhaps a bit TOO scary...

[silk halo]

i don't think harder mobs in the starter areas was on the agenda anyway, folk just want more fish in the water, and a larger, more fleshed out fishing system that isn't quite as tough as currently

[gray quarry]

Exactly, serpents are challenging in bronze age but not impossible. Now triple their hit points and damage output and make them faster, and that poor sod in a karve is pretty fudged.

[silk halo]

the image is pretty funny but i'm confident it won't happen xD

you'd get a similar vibe taking a raft naked

[gray quarry]

Oh hell yeah, I learned the limitations of the raft the hard way

[granite geyser]

@wind aspen for what?

You're all playing together, you're all on the same team

And there's plenty of public servers in #1024264966712340510

[ashen tinsel]

Before I put my stupid fishing suggestion, is there any interaction between the fishing rod and serpents?

[granite geyser]

No

[fleet lintel]

Is your suggestion that if you pull the serpent ashore with the harpoon and then switch to the rod, and cast into the serpent enough times to bludgeon it to death with the rod you get a special achievement, and also the serpent “coughs up” or “drops” a unique fish?

[ashen tinsel]

Nah, I was thinking something a bit more direct like this
https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-19-2016/OzTsUk.gif

I can't think of any reason for them to implement it though other than being a lot of fun to fish for serpents, or having a serpent steal your fish on the line.

[fleet lintel]

Man, I was sure I had guessed it.

Shucks

[versed sonnet]

I'm hoping they make fishing a lil more fun rather than "cast as close as you can and eat as many stamina foods as possible and use stamina meads"

[fleet lintel]

Idk wtf that gif is supposed to be

Other than a seizure

[ashen tinsel]

Was supposed to be fishing for a gobul in monster hunter tri, but GIF technology in the 2000s couldn't quite capture that majesty it seems. Would be fun to fish for serpents.

[granite geyser]

#suggestions message

https://tenor.com/view/oh-yeah-bet-you-believe-it-nod-smile-yes-gif-16522618

[arctic wharf]

Guess I will be the odd one out to downvote the no normal animals suggestion 🤣

Chickens have been one of my favorite recent additions, and the deer with their funky sounds feel super iconic to me during a fresh game.

Really would not mind a select few extra real world animal additions... they keep it feeling grounded. Just have to put a slight valheim flare to them as they have been doing already and it's fine. Goats and Foxes are two that would probably work out well.

Ofcourse, only a few more. 🤭

Could agree most new mobs should be 100% fresh from valheim though.

[eternal storm]

I don't see what's wrong with adding bears to a game inspired by viking mythology. Together with wolves and boars, already featured in game, bears were very important in viking culture.

Probably the most popular piece of viking culture is the berserker, a literal wearer of bear skin, and yet the game doesn't feature neither the animal, nor the warrior cult related to it.

I understand the devs are free to include, or not include anything they want, but there's no reason players should dismiss important parts of viking culture and warfare in Valheim. Unless the devs already said they have no interest in adding bears and berserkers. If that's the case, my mistake.

[unkempt raven]

The devs have said they don't want "mundane" animals though.

I wouldn't midn bears at all, but it's been said pretty plainly many times that "normal" animals are highly unlikley to be added.

The ones we have are very old assets from early in development(boars/wolves) or in-house made stuff that wasy lying around waiting for a use (chickens).

[mortal lichen]

#suggestions message
@hazy wind It already does.

[granite geyser]

This is why you should play the game before suggesting something

[rose swan]

I agree with you. I’m not against real world creatures, but I’m for them either. What’s most important to me is how they’re implemented. I find the chicken to be a fantastic addition as well. The color variations make them really cozy, the food they provide really flesh out the diet/stat system in an organic way. I like the way you put it, having a combination of ‘regular’ animals and fantasy animals really make the fantasy creatures pop out more.

Like Syndrome says, “When everyone’s super!… no one will be”

[mortal lichen]

@thick turtle Language translations is done by volunteers, you could do it ^^

[granite geyser]

@tiny olive for what purpose?

[pure patio]

Seems kinda like Minecraft ender chests, so you don't have to teleport materials in your inventory. Might be wonky with the limitations on metals, and given the dev stance on not crafting from chests it's not likely to be added

[granite geyser]

Seems very absurd considering you can enable all items teleporting via modifiers.

Why having what's essentially the same feature twice?

[pure patio]

I think it just means that you don't have to explicitly teleport it and move it from one base to the other, you could take it out from either base and craft with it there. I can kind of see the point, but I just don't think it's quite in the character of the game.

[tiny olive]

I mean going back and forth to drop your items form exploring gets tidieous. Why would it be pointless to be able to drop the items and continue exploring. Second use would be to fight bosses, clearing dungeons. You just could have a chest with other gear, potions, food. Transporting materials to build otyher bases without going back again and again. There would be plethora of uses. Making it buildable with 1 thing crafted before and being able to build it without a workbench would make sense

[granite geyser]

You could just use portals for that which perform the exact same purpose...

[tiny olive]

Did you read any of it?

Escpecially 1st sentence

[granite geyser]

It's just going through a portal, that doesn't take minutes, just seconds.

Especially if you just build a chest right next to the base portal.

And it's not like you do it so frequently, you go exploring, spend time collecting stuff, teleport back and store stuff, go back, repeat.

You take much longer collecting items than you do going through a portal and back

[tiny olive]

But why would you do it if you could just dump items and continue. If u wanted to go throgh a portal and do the same - do it, but there is no point to just scrape the idea because you can do the same doing it other way

[unkempt raven]

So the idea is to just be able to dump items anywhere in the world and craft with them anywhere in the world?

[tiny olive]

Or to take some gear from it when needed, I think it has flexible use for many playstyles

[wanton edge]

I'd rather the game go away from "always have access to your base via pocket portal", not dive even farther in that direction

[rose swan]

Grow 3-4 longer? Like they (the berries) would take longer to grow? @pallid schooner

[pallid schooner]

Yeap

[rose swan]

Gotcha, just wanted to clarify! Also, #suggestions message in case you want to see another version of your idea 🙂

[unkempt raven]

Farmable berries have been conclusively noped (for the reasons stated in #valheim-chat earlier), suggetsing for the 846324th time isn't likely to suddenly make the devs go "oh, perhaps we should make foraging redundant after all".

[arctic wharf]

grapes though 🤓 grapes might somehow be added as a farmable plant hahaha

But I 100% get why the devs don't want to make everything you can find in the wilds farmable.. you would not have much to forage any more if they did 🤷‍♂️

[pallid schooner]

So, after all, I’m not the only one, I just need to initially complicate this process, so that at first the plants grow in 5-10 days, and then, roughly speaking, the berries grow for a day @rose swan

[rose swan]

I don’t personally care for plantable berry bushes, the occasional stroll through the meadows or Black Forest is actually kinda nice.

[arctic wharf]

Funny enough, I would much rather have more uses for the masses of barries and such I already have 🤭
I like to pick up hundreds, but you only need like a stack at most for a whole playthrough.

[pallid schooner]

Nobody argues, raspberry and blueberry bushes can be used as decoration 🙂

[rose swan]

They do make good decoration, however, I don’t think that’s a strong case for adding plantable bushes. Reason being, there’s alot of things that would make amazing decoration that aren’t available to us, and that’s ok! Sometimes decoration is about manipulating the world around you to make something you really like.

[arctic wharf]

Cult of the wolf decor when??? 🙏

[granite geyser]

https://twitter.com/jsmars/status/1768561345522200728

[rose swan]

(I hate that I often miss this stuff because I don’t have twitter 😅)

[granite geyser]

I want them to add a channel where they post spoilers from their socials and you could only see them with a role but they just seem to not want to...

This server is being neglected

[arctic wharf]

I am super ontop of the news kekeke, and trust me this is one of those long awaited and heavily requested features that is just such an easy W for IG 🤣

They still have a few other low hanging fruits if they want to really please a lot of people too

[arctic wharf]

possibly even more so after the incident too

[rose swan]

For what it’s worth, even though im not an advocate for plantable berries, this #suggestion-discussion message is probably my favorite version of berry bushes, if they ever came to fruition. ||pun intended🍓🍇🍉||

[granite geyser]

Before the dark times, before the Hack Wars...

[mortal lichen]

I vibe with the UI suggestion

[amber wind]

I started a playthrough with my friends with the portal settings set to the minimum, meaning anything can be transported through the portals and I'm really regretting it. The usual mode of adventure is that we set out with a blank portal at home and mats for a new portal in someone's pocket. Then when we get to a point of interest, we drop a workbench and a portal giving instantaneous access to drop off all the loot...also if anyone dies, we just drop a portal and they are instantly back with us. It really trivializes the danger of adventuring far far away from our base. In hindsight, I think the challenge of trying to figure out how to transport all the precious loot back home would be much more challenging and ultimately enjoyable. But I don't think the other people would agree with me. In my local world I've started a no map no portal world with much higher death penalties and I really do enjoy it a bit more. It's a lot harder, but you get that great feeling of accomplishment when you actually do make it home with all your loot still intact.

[wanton edge]

Aye, I was the only one who was reluctant to use pocket portals in my group in earlier playthroughs, and others didn't get why I didn't like using them. But then when I convinced them to try a new no portal no map world later they really loved it. I think sometimes its hard for folks to see past efficiency to what actually makes something fun or not, and when you're used to an advantage there's a knee jerk reaction to losing it

[unkempt raven]

I think I was lucky in somehow missing that portals were a thing in my first proper save (I didn't see them in my crafting tab and while I knew they existed I somehow thought they required iron). I really enjoyed the "logistics" part of the game with having several outposts and actually having to plan stuff. I still prefer playing with no portals.

[amber wind]

Aye, so that is my thinking for any suggestion that adds convenience of transporting items over long distances (like the linking of chests for instant transport). It certainly adds convenience at the expense of the challenge and a sense of accomplishment. So that's why I will vote against it.

[granite geyser]

@coral cradle the emoji is what triggers the bot to add the vote reactions

[karmic flax]

also makes sure people read the pins before posting and not spam the channel with discussion

[outer crown]

also is it only 5 minute cooldown? wasnt it more?

[unkempt raven]

Used to be 30 minutes (and the bot didn't use to send you the message it deleted).

[amber wind]

Yeah, it's nice that they send the message, so you don't have to retype it all out again to fix and repost...the 5 minutes is a bit of a drag (30 minutes even more) but that may be the price of learning.

[unkempt raven]

If it's not worth 5 minutes it can hardly have been a very important suggestion, tbh.

[granite geyser]

Idk what's the hurry about posting suggestions so quickly.

Also, the bot sending you a msg means you can copy paste it. You used to lose it completely before

[amber wind]

Some of us don't have all day (aka five minutes).

[granite geyser]

Then post it at any other time....

It's not like they won't develop the game anymore for the lack of suggestions either. That channel could be closed and I sure they would still be doing fine

[wanton atlas]

indeed

the suggestion channel have multiple usages.

1. have ONE place for suggestions to be posted in to not clutter all other channels.
2. so we as developers can find them easily when we want to see if something is popular? something that will peak our interest or some other reason to go that place with alot of ideas.
3. it's not to get your 10000's suggestion added to the game.
4. it's a suggestion, not a demand. remember that 🙏

[wet drift]

I think generally, when a feature is missing because it would make some part of the intended experience redundant, (in this case foraging) it makes sense to simply make it available more lategame.

[amber wind]

I demand that my suggestion just be a suggestion, and not a demand!

[arctic wharf]

I just treat the suggestions channel like a black box to toss ideas into and get them out from your head where they might be nagging you hahaha

no reason to expect anything to make it out of the black box

[icy quarry]

You'd be surprised at the frequency Iron Gate checks player suggestions

[arctic wharf]

probably, but it just takes all the pressure off to not expect anything 😋

[gray quarry]

It's a suggestion box after all, most suggestions are pretty nonsensical tbh, but this companion channel is lovely for the ones that are interesting

[wanton atlas]

I do it atleast 1 time every day

[arctic wharf]

still keeping up with reading/voting on every single suggestion 🤭 though I know there is no need haha

[rose swan]

I find this channel to be a really good exercise for weighing in ideas and getting input- it’s really just a lot of fun! I really enjoy seeing people’s perspectives.

[wanton atlas]

As long as people don't start to bicker 🥲

[granite geyser]

https://tenor.com/view/eminem-now-this-looks-like-a-job-for-me-gif-26295486

[runic patio]

Maybe I have a "bad map" or perhaps I'm just not far enough to understand this. I'm done with the swamp items and got a few points for the next boss, found Heldar, >100h.

Right now the dilemma is always "Ok should I bring back my stuff to what was my main base or not?" and "Where is an actual good spot if I need to build another base. It's not obvious yet what the next biome should be to set it up, I'm guessing it's the plains, unless I need to beat the next boss first, but in both locations I currently have there's plains before I reach it, and I don't seem strong enough against the wolves from the mountains, as soon as I get more then one after me. [I'm guessing I need something for the cold other than the wolf pelts.]

The cart is pretty much useless, as soon as something happens you need to leave it there, kill whatever creature, continue. Maybe build a road but most of the time you won't need the other locations to the point of investing the time to build a road. The Karve is pretty much useless with it's limited space. To me it's just a faster raft when I'm in trouble. The Longship is ok-ish.

Maybe if you've played the entire game already (more or less) it makes sense, but for "new" players it doesn't: when/where should you build your next base and what should I really build in it, should I instead recycle the old base contents?

But I'm sorry but moving from one place to the next to setup is already quite a chore. Doing a back and forth, I do not find this fun. And it's not like it's challenging at this point, it's just really long and boring even when the winds are favourable.

Unless I'm mistaken as I've always stayed close to land with important stuff, even in water you still get your tombstone, thus unless you're howling a huge load, you'll want to keep it on yourself so if something goes wrong, it'll be in the stash. so really it isn't that hard, it just takes much longer when it goes wrong (hence my Karve comment above, from my experience); which, again, isn't fun.

[amber wind]

Hmmm...I think people's definition of what is fun vs what is tedious and challenging differs from person to person. I lean towards the more challenging and tedious experiences, as they feel the most rewarding for me. I think for others, the risk of losing everything is too great. This is perfectly fine, which is why the devs have added the modifiers so people can dial the difficulty to something that is enjoyable but challenging specifically for them. In my first world, we chose to allow unrestricted portal access because we were concerned about limited gameplay. It is nice that we can pop a portal, teleport home and call it a night at any time...but the downside is that it's so easy to cheese things like collecting resources because you just drop a portal and we're instantly home. Forcing a no map/no portal world has really opened my eyes to strategies that I would just gloss over because "why...just drop a portal"...and in my opinion, when the only strategy you rely on is "just drop a portal" it absolutely ruins the experience for me. This may not be true for everyone, but it is for me.

[runic patio]

I agree with your statement, but I think they need to execute it differently. And I don't have a suggestion on what would fit with the theme.

[amber wind]

Are you playing with Portals? @runic patio

And, my apologies, what was your Karve comment?

[runic patio]

I dunno, I setup the server with "no changes", so I assume these are the default settings: so I have portals but no metals.

Well mostly I find the boats useless as anything but getting over water (and well moving metal as you can't teleport them).

So really the only important thing is their speed

[amber wind]

I have only limited experience with sailing myself...with the Karve and Raft, not a Longship yet. But I'd imagine the limited cargo holds means you mostly are hauling things on your person instead of the ships. I would consider hauling the stuff to setup a makeshift smelter/cart combo so if I come across an area with potential ores, you have close access to a smelter...

[runic patio]

Well, as I had explained, I'll use the cargo on a "setup a new base" run where I've scoped and know where I need to setup and bring all the stuff needed.

So I need the actually "cargo" once per base for now. Maybe with many players there's more of a point to it since then a lot of people can be on them...

[amber wind]

Yes, there is definitely an advantage to having multiple people on the same boat...larger hauling capacity, but also a much higher risk of losing it all.

[runic patio]

What risk? You have their tombstones, it just slows you down.

[viscid crater]

Something I learned recently that really helped me understand moving resources: i think you're supposed to set up a smelting/crafting area in each biome for the gear there. You'll almost always pass a black forest on the way to a swamp which lets you get copper/tin/cores. You then set up a little base in the swamp and craft your iron gear there instead of hauling it back to your main

[amber wind]

Oh, on my world, if you die everything that isn't equipped is lost.

Yeah, in some cases it's almost easier to just setup a new base in each new biome as you move along. You don't need to get extremely elaborate with the building (though a lot of people do). I usually just put up a small shack.

[wanton edge]

I understand why they put portals in the game but I also see why there was reluctance, and I still think the current portals go against the games stated vision and vibe. I think the default game would benefit from reevaluating portals and how much of an impact they have on every aspect of gameplay. I don't know what the solution is but it feels like there's got to be a better implementation - frankly my biggest hope for the game is that portals get looked at again before 1.0

Boats and ocean also need more fleshing out, which will change things a lot

[viscid crater]

Make sailing faster, and wind less harsh

[runic patio]

Yeah, I tend to setup a small minimalist base too, usually using some stone foundations near the spot I want to save some time. It still takes me a fair amount of time to setup...

[amber wind]

Yeah, I agree with DapperHamster about Portals, but with the world modifiers, I feel like you have complete control over them...from having no portals, to having portals that let you cheese everything (and some combinations in between). If I would change anything, it would be to increase the mats needed to make portals...so they are rare and hard to make and not just something you can drop every 50 feet.

[runic patio]

I mean as a viking I could see myself mooring near a ressource, collecting it and then moving on but the game (in low player count) isn't well suited since the storage is low and there's a high chance of the boat being attacked if left unattended (lost 3 Karves this way...)

[amber wind]

@viscid crater What do you mean by "less harsh"?

[viscid crater]

Headwind is ridiculously slow, sea of thieves handles it great, it's a speed penalty but maybe only half. It doesn't bring you to a crawl

[amber wind]

I like how sailing reflects how sailing works in real life. If you want sail downwind, you just open the sails and point the nose in that direction, but if you want to sail upwind (against the wind) you need to tach the boat at ~100 degrees from the wind, then swing it 100 degrees the other way, essentially zig zagging your way forward.

[viscid crater]

Realism isn't inherently fun

[amber wind]

Yeah, I look at it as a challenge to overcome. But I get it...

[runic patio]

Again it's a "first time thing", maybe have a feature where it works "hardly" when discovering the fog of war, or perhaps allow to establish "routes" where for some magical reason the path between two bases would be supported by a magical wind, as it's really boring after 2 back-and-forths.

[amber wind]

The wind changes direction...you could just wait for when the wind is blowing in the right direction to make the crossing?

[runic patio]

Oh right, so I postpone my voyage to do what exactly?

[amber wind]

shrug something else?

[runic patio]

Great a game that entices me to not play it?

[viscid crater]

Cmon now there's always stuff to do around your base

[amber wind]

Sounds to me like both of you just need to enable portals to be able to transport metals and ores...problem solved.

[viscid crater]

Makes the game too short and easy

[runic patio]

Yeah that would solve it but I'm assuming it's the way it was meant to be played by the devs.

[amber wind]

Besides how the devs envisioned it, the real question is how much do YOU enjoy it? If you aren't having fun, why punish yourself? Just change the modifiers to be something that you will have fun with.

[runic patio]

Because I would enjoy it if it didn't take 5 ages.

[viscid crater]

I enjoy portal metals in the moment, but it retroactively ruins my playthrough because I'm not supposed to have as much stuff as i do so easily

[runic patio]

translated: If boats could be able to be 5x as fast, somehow, I wouldn't mind it.

[viscid crater]

That's basically what I'm saying. Sailing needs to be faster

[amber wind]

Hmm..are there any mods that do something like this?

[runic patio]

If I enable portals I known I'd be an idiot not to just setup a tiny portal-mini-setup at every ressource I need.

[amber wind]

I haven't had any issues with the sailing speed, but I'd be willing to try 2x, 3x, 5x the speed and see how it handle.

[silk halo]

i'd wait and see what we get with the next update

[runic patio]

I didn't notice mentions about boat changes in the update?

[silk halo]

praying on new boat

[amber wind]

The consequences and sea creatures probably also need to be updated for the faster speed. Like when you run your boat into rocks, it takes a lot more damage...etc etc.

[runic patio]

also if there's a higher tier boat that still doesn't help me :p

[silk halo]

next next update

[runic patio]

lol

[amber wind]

What if you can get an item that changes the direction of the wind, would that solve the problem?

[runic patio]

yeah I guess that would work too

[silk halo]

if the new boat goes faster who cares

if it has any sort of mechanical/magic engine the pesky wind might be an issue of the past

[runic patio]

well I still would need a faster boat near the iron level imho.

[amber wind]

😭 I like sailing...

[silk halo]

there's a lot of if's in there xD

[amber wind]

Why do you need a faster boat for the iron level?

[runic patio]

Because I don't want to return to places I've built w/ iron as it's too long...

[amber wind]

Always forward, never backward...unless it's to hang up a boss trophy. 😉

[silk halo]

simply commandeering a fortress might be the way

[runic patio]

Normally you can find a nice spot w/ iron+tin+copper close by at that point tho, so now I'm back to exploring, but the game just crashed and I lost ~1h+ progress so I'm rather irate.

[silk halo]

oof

[amber wind]

So, just to clarify, sailing upwind with the boat is too slow...or is it just sailing is too slow period?

[runic patio]

I can deal with being an idiot and not building a small base when staring the plains; seeing a bonfire in the fog thinking "that's cool, let's see what friendly people are there" before placing a bed... Then doing a "boat corpse run" there only to be repeatedly killed by friggen musquitos while trying to retreat...

That's all on me. But the crash without the game saving; that could have been automated.

[amber wind]

Yeah, I don't think periodic game crashes is intentional from the devs... 😦 They are working on the bugs.

[silk halo]

the closest they can viably do to protect saves is back them up hourly which the system already does, they found that more regular intervals than that can cause all sorts of other issues like saves building up too much or it interfering with gameplay

[runic patio]

Nah the crash isn't unexpected; it's the lack of regular "player autosave" (or, in my mind, the lack of server-side player data 😉 )

[silk halo]

every time you sleep in a bad the game saves, if that helps

[amber wind]

I thought it saved every 30 minutes...once an in-game day?

[silk halo]

and on logout, and every 30 min as well ye

[amber wind]

So if your game crashes right before a save, it could potentially be 59.999 minutes.

[runic patio]

More when if it corrupts and you need to use the backup (well 1h29.9999)

[silk halo]

it's reinforced as much as it can be without some serious wizardry

[amber wind]

I do support an option for server-side character saves...but not because of save corruption. I like the idea of isolating worlds from outside influence...so you can't bring anything in or out of it from other worlds.

[runic patio]

Yeah that's my original point, but it would also help with that, just saying.

[silk halo]

ye but they won't go for that or they will have hawkish server owners locking folk out

[runic patio]

?

[silk halo]

taking their characters

[runic patio]

Oh you just need the game to "not use the character". When you connect to such a server, you'd use the "look setup", but [when the client would connect to] these servers [it] should NOT update anything from the local data.

[amber wind]

It's their server...can't they do what they want with their server?

[silk halo]

does IG want all the accompanying complaints?

[runic patio]

Well, technically, right now yes. But if the client was setup to "support server-side player server" then the client wouldn't actually send the information to these servers...

[amber wind]

Yeah, I don't understand...I guess in my mind, the best would be an option for either server side or client side character saves. The server side isolates the world and overwrites or ignores the local save....while the client side character saves allow things willy nilly.

[silk halo]

every day there would be someone "i just got locked out of my 200 hour build server"

[amber wind]

As with all things, you join a server at your own risk.

[silk halo]

it's not our choice or theirs

[runic patio]

No, if this was properly programmed in the client, this wouldn't happen.

[viscid crater]

Very much the first, and a little bit of the second

[amber wind]

Actually it is...I mean, as a dedicated server admin, I can ban anyone i want from using my server...period.

All that stuff they left on my world...gone...no longer accessible.

[runic patio]

For good measure Kill+Ban ;)

Having server-side player data would actually protect you from this.

[amber wind]

It could also address the issue with people bringing in those wonky dev items that destroy everything in a 100 yard radius...no outside items allowed.

[silk halo]

how? ppl just mod that sort of thing anyway

[amber wind]

Does it stop hackers...probably not, but nothing stops them now...so it doesn't really change anything.

[silk halo]

yeh and now characters don't get locked down in someone's server either

[runic patio]

Nah given the game is "client-simulation dispached", you could still have players using a mod that would instance such items; but it would reduce it somewhat.

[amber wind]

I'm not understanding this "locked down" thing.

[silk halo]

yr giving more power to the modders and hackers if anything

[amber wind]

I was thinking you're giving more power to the server admins...

Basically letting them control what people can bring into/out of their server.

[silk halo]

letting them hold characters to ransom

[runic patio]

Well they'd ideally bring nothing. But untill the game is entirely simulated on the server instead of the clients, you can always use mods/hacks to introduce stuff.

Stop it with the ransomed characters:

1. This wouldn't happen in a server-side scenario
2. We can do this RIGHT NOW.

and the solution is super simple:

1. Trust the server
2. Make/Use a backup

[amber wind]

I guess they could...but why? And if someone did, they are probably just griefers to begin with, so why would anyone want to play on their server?

[silk halo]

"why are ppl ppl"

[runic patio]

It's just like Minecraft, you have to "trust the server".

When the server shuts down, you lose the world and the character.

[amber wind]

lol...there exists a scenario where people could potentially ban someone from their server, and they would lose all their progress and items in that world...but can't they already do that? If you are admin of your server, you are GOD and you can do anything you want.

Yes, they can keep whatever is on their person and inventory...but everything else is lost.

#1 It's just a game...lol. I don't understand why someone would go through that much effort to grief someone. #2 if it happened to me, I would just shrug, join a different server, start a new game. Or better yet, host my own server, then I can be the griefer!

[silk halo]

i would just make a new toon, cheat gear and levels in and be fixed in 10 seconds, but they don't want ppl to have to go that route

[amber wind]

PS. I would never do that, btw.

I don't think people will go that route...AND I think people who would do that already exist in the game and are already doing it.

I just don't see the difference.

[silk halo]

the game cheats us often enough as it is xD

[amber wind]

If they made the game exclusively server-side yes, but that's not what I'm suggesting, make it an option when the server is created...

[silk halo]

Smiffe will just come slap the convo down anyway xD i guess they are decided how they want to do it 🤷

[amber wind]

Yeah, there is a mod supposedly that does this, and I'd be curious to see how well it works, but I haven't played with mods as the game isn't realy 1.0 yet.

I really just want a way to isolate my server from outside influence. Right now I just don't invite anyone I don't know and trust to my server. But I would love to open it up to the public and see what happens. 🙂

[runic patio]

Ok, gave it some thought, here's my idea which would fit within the universe: to "unlock a metal" for a portal, one would need for a Ward to be placed within the space with the portal and the forge of the appropriate level as well as be sheltered. For example, to be able to teleport BOTH ends would need (in addition to the Workbench and Ward)

• Copper: Forge + Cooler
• Tin: Cauldron (Kinda weird but only structure that requires tin...)
• Bronze: Forge + Adze + Anvils
• Iron: Forge + Toolrack + Smith's anvil
  [I am not past this and would like not to spoil it]
  Could also be added to the requirements be at least 1 bed.
  Also this could be incremental (ie: Bronze requires Tin+Copper conditions, etc etc).

This, I think, should be enough to deter just building resource-teleporters, as essentially you need to setup pretty much a secondary base a this point which you'll want to protect minimally as not to lose it and would attract creatures due to workbench(+bed).

Once this is setup it then becomes convenience.

There is still the challenge to bring/find all the bases resources to build the "teleporting base" which would need some proper logistics to figure out and this would reduce the monotonous back and forths which I complained about.

[silk halo]

portals already have enough options (aside from letting tames through).... and sliders for no carry weight/bigger inventory? (which is the real solution to most of this pain) ♻️

[runic patio]

🤦 To repeat, this is assuming that the devs would "recommend" playing with metals locked from teleporters.

As soon as you unlock metal, as was mentioned in that thread back there, people make temporary metal teleporters that essentially bypass the entire games logistics.

[amber wind]

So you would need all of those things to make a portal, or just one of those combinations? Or is that what is required in each different biome?

[runic patio]

For each portal my suggestion assumes you'll need those structures (or a combination leading to it, I like the individual lines though).

[silk halo]

but why would they over-complicate it when it works fine already and you only need a few portals like Haldor anyway

[amber wind]

Oh, I see...in order to enable metals through a portal in a no metals through portal world...got it.

[runic patio]

What's complicated? The gist of my suggestion is once a base is setup to process a ressource, you're allowed to teleport it.

This, again, is assuming that the devs want players to actually work out the logisitcs of moving resources around.

My comment is there because if the devs DIDN'T WANT US TO CARE ABOUT THOSE LOGISTICS, then that LOCK WOULD NOT EVEN EXIST IN THE FIRST PLACE.

[amber wind]

So this way you have to collect a certain amount of metals and haul it home before you can make a portal that can transport it...clever.

[silk halo]

i get it, i just don't think it will fly when portals have had so much attention already

[runic patio]

Lol, if something is still wrong... It's still wrong

[amber wind]

It's all good TheMeowMechanicGeneral, we can still have a discussion around it, even if the devs don't care. 🙂

[silk halo]

and wouldn't you rather be able to take the doggo's through instead if were to make any change?

staging them out just doesn't add much for me

[amber wind]

My thought was just making them harder to create period...so you can't just put them everywhere willy nilly. Like you need a critical mass before it allows you put a portal up, or you can only put portals up in certain locations on the map.

[runic patio]

Hmm, well that would be "simpler": don't allow specific resource TP from within, say 100 "yards" of it's base biome...

[amber wind]

How about if you can make a portal and infuse it with a certain number of metal bars and it allows you to bring that metal through it? (or it's a different TYPE of portal which requires a certain number of bars to create).

And then you could make it so that higher tier metals allow all the lower tier metals through...like iron lets copper, bronze, tin through.

[runic patio]

I still find my suggestion nice lore-wise tho :p

[amber wind]

Maybe start it with Bronze which allows the base 3 metals through.

[runic patio]

also adds function to the Ward wich I find lacking :p

[amber wind]

Yeah, it just means you have to establish a base in order to transport the metal from one base to another.

[runic patio]

Isnt' that what you pretty much need to do anyway (without TPs) unless it's near water?

[amber wind]

But if you already have established a base, then why do you need to transport it through the portal?

I guess "because I want to" is a valid reason...

[runic patio]

You never establish a hub?

[amber wind]

I mean, we did with the portals completely unlocked to allow any item through.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding...do you need to have those requirements on both portals to allow the metal through? Or just one?

[runic patio]

I my suggestion, both

[amber wind]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

I'm not that far along, but do you ever have equipment that requires mixtures of metals? Like iron AND bronze?

[runic patio]

Essentially this would force 1 roundtrip to wherever you want to be able to send a resource, forcing some logistics around it.

Not that I know, again, I just "finished" iron and heading into the plains.

[amber wind]

Yeah, so far I haven't seen anything like that except the tin/copper mixture which are both found in the same biome.

Can you transport metal armor/weapons/tools through the portals?

[runic patio]

So for example, my "hub" is full of chests which I'd like to replace with iron chests. Too lazy to bring Iron there specially since I just finished upgrading all my equipement to max iron level.

However if I wanted to upgrade my hub with metal, I now need to bring metal there. Or elect a new place for my hub... And still bring metal there.

Plus I've pretty much expended the iron around my "marsh base" so I either need to move it, or build another one...

[amber wind]

So this way, you need to hoof out all the stuff to establish the requirements to make the portal at the new location, and then haul all the requirements back to main base first, then once you have established portals in both locations, you can transport metals. I like it. Would you allow the higher tier portals to transport the lower tier metals as well? Or do they require the needed items on both ends as well?

Each metal independently.

[runic patio]

I like the idea where if it's setup for a metal it works for it, yeah

And frankly, I'd prefer to forego Iron requiring bronze. I just stated it as an optional idea given people found it too easy to build a small "Iron base".

[amber wind]

I was thinking if you have an iron capable portal, it can also transport bronze, copper, tin...but not anything higher than iron.

[runic patio]

Yeah the opposite idea, I'm not too fond of it either...

[amber wind]

Alternatively, it can ONLY transport iron, so to enable the others, you have to add the required items to both portals.

[runic patio]

yeah that's the original idea

[amber wind]

That would mean to make a portal that can transport everything, you need like a dozen items within a certain distance of it...

[runic patio]

just like normal bases, yeah

[amber wind]

That sounds really complex to make. 🙂

[runic patio]

well, I mentioned "within the Ward area" so it wouldn't be too complex... the check would be "Portal -> Ward -> Forge linked with Toolrack+Smith's anvil"

[amber wind]

Yeah, does it check it every time you enter...or just every time you enter with metal...and then if you have all the different types of metals, it has to check for each type of metal for each type of item required on both ends.

[silk halo]

some modder might have the time/inclination

[runic patio]

Well the way the game acts, it activates the portal if you have the item on you, as such the "portal" would need to know this [in advance, to be able to activate properly]. This means it would be done whenever [specific] structures are created/destroyed.

[amber wind]

So if you don't have the item on you, then the portal doesn't work at all? LIke you can't ride through the iron portal unless you have iron in your pockets?

[runic patio]

When you go near portals, they "activate", if you have items with the little gray portal icon then it doesn't activate, so it doesn't let you teleport.

[amber wind]

Ah...

[silk halo]

sounds like fps loss to me

[runic patio]

Again, with my suggestion, this would only be checked when you place[/destroy] specific structures that fiddle with this feature, so this would have hardly any impact.

[amber wind]

I guess...right now it is probably just a single flag of "metals" or "no metals" the only difference would be a flag for each type of metal...but yeah, the check for all the other required items might cause FPS loss when they are created/destroyed.

[runic patio]

You are right that it becomes an array of checks, once for each type of metal.

This is trivial unless you're programming in Python.

[amber wind]

Because it's a chain right? Item 1 looks for item 2 which looks for item 3...it can't just be when a portal is placed/removed, but also when the items needed to allow the metal are placed/removed.

[silk halo]

although i'd change might, to almost certainly will, and for older machines, ouch

[amber wind]

Maybe...heh heh...we could be absolutely wrong about FPS loss. It's beyond my understanding of how it would play with the game engine. Which is why it's ultimately up to the devs to decide what is worth implementing or not. 😉

[runic patio]

No, each metal has an index, the "support state" of the teleporter would need to be updated. So, say, portal 1 has "Copper, Iron". Every game tick, the game would then need to check "Does player in proximity of portal have Tin" if so, don't enable.

Where as now it just checks "Does player in proximity of portal has any type of metal".

[amber wind]

BUT, I do like the idea of limiting metals through portals forcing the challenge of transporting them across the world at least once or twice before you can unlock the convenience of instant transportation.

[silk halo]

Smiffe has also been very clear about this, more calculations=bigger strain on fps, and what guy is suggesting is creating a lagfest just to add tedium to the portal system

[amber wind]

Yeah...the flag for if you have metals shouldn't be that big of a hit, I'm taking about the portal determining if it can transport a certain metal through, because it requires a combination of items being within range of it...on both ends...

[runic patio]

This describes the process. This is also fairly trivial.

Just calculating the particles to display the link between forge and it's "bonuses" is like 1000x more process intensive than this logic.

Can you imagine calculating 50 particles moving kind randomly but in a constitant moving line? OMG the frame losses!

[amber wind]

I'm not saying it's impossible...I'm not even saying it's complicated. I'm just saying I don't know either way. 😉

And ultimately what you or I think is either easy or complicated doesn't matter... 😦 (I must be getting tired, so many typos).

[runic patio]

Yeah but I can't be told this is a frame loss when it's like 0.000001Mhz from your processor

[stiff stag]

We already have work stations checking for their upgrades around them and that doesn't have a noticeable affect on fps. Why would something else doing the same kind of checks suddenly be a problem? Seems like a rather silly argument unless I'm missing something important.

[runic patio]

My main concern with my idea is actually communicating this to the user: you can't really highlight the user's inventory for support, it needs to be per teleporter link, so it would need to be displayed on the actual teleporter (either as plain text or as images). The Ward requirement would be obtuse unless clearly explained in the description of the Teleporter/Ward. [This requirement should probably] be forgone because of this.

[amber wind]

Yeah, coding it is one issue (trivial or not, I don't know) but then making it easily understandable to the user is another hurdle. Having it be simple and/or repetitive makes it easier to understand. Why did you pick the items you picked? Was the formula just the 1st crafting item you can make + an upgrade item (or two)? Why those specific items?

[runic patio]

Well the Forge makes sense, so force all items to upgrade the forge that use the resource.

The couldron is there because it's the only one with Tin.

[silk halo]

need a whole wiki just to explain the portals, smh

[runic patio]

Frankly, right now the portals are explained as crap. I couldn't get them working until I read the Wiki

[amber wind]

heh heh, I refuse to use Wiki's...just my take. I don't want to consult an external source of information to learn how to play the game.

Really? I thought they were pretty easy to understand, you make one, you make 2, they connect. You highlight them and there is an option to rename...you rename one, and they disconnect. I didn't find it that illogica that if I renamed the 2nd one the same as the 1st one, they connected.

[runic patio]

I mean the first two are fine, as soon as you try a third all hell breaks loose and nothing is obvious until you're told/google it.

[amber wind]

Oh yeah, I can see that being confusing.

[silk halo]

coz entrance/exit is a novel thing?

[runic patio]

Imagine doing that with ore on you? (That's what happened to me)

[amber wind]

Yeah, the icons on the ore may be something I would miss, but when you hover over them, they say something like "can not be ported" or something.

[runic patio]

I know there's hints, I'm just saying it's defenetively not obvious

[amber wind]

Does the bird show up when you place a portal? Does he tell you to name them?

[silk halo]

probably mentions it nowdays, he got a lot of updates

[runic patio]

It might, it's been a while! Not as if you always have the time to listen to it either...

[amber wind]

I know my friends turned off the bird because he constantly would show up...lol. I'm like "just talk to him! He'll disappear!"

And better yet, maybe read what he has to say...it might be important.

[runic patio]

Yeah I left it on to have more of an idea of what to do, plus I know there's log available once he mentions it. But I don't remember.

[amber wind]

When you place the 3rd portal, where did you expect it to connect to?

[runic patio]

Well that's the thing I have no idea.

[amber wind]

Like...maybe you have a 50/50 chance to go to either one?

[runic patio]

I actually didn't know you could name them, that much I recall.

[silk halo]

unlocks the final boss

secret port straight to Valhalla

[runic patio]

I think I figured originally you'd place them in "batches", like 2 links to 1, 4 would link to 3 etc...

[amber wind]

Yeah, I can see that too. But if you only place 3...

Whichever portal is closest...

[runic patio]

well given I was in short stock of the cores and not knowing demolishing gives everything back [back then,] I'm pretty sure I checked the wiki prior to placing my third one.

[amber wind]

I don't think that would work either, because if you are far away, the other portal isn't loaded into memory. And what if you happen to place a portal down that is exactly the same distance between two other portals.

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of wikis. I shouldn't need to consult an external site to figure out how to play your game. But I can forgive them as it's still EA and not 1.0 yet.

[runic patio]

Yeah that's my stance too, game should be self-contained as much as possible...

[silk halo]

lets get the annoying fairy in from zelda that tells you what to do every step of the way xD

[amber wind]

Not to mention SPOILERS from wiki...just ruins the game.

We already have that don't we...the bird that follows you around till you talk to him or disable him in frustration.

[silk halo]

nowhere near as abrasive, but ppl still find him annoying too xD

[amber wind]

Being able to disable him makes him 10000x better than Navi 😉

[silk halo]

HEY

LISTEN

😩

[amber wind]

ignores Navi and swings at the bombs anyways

If Navi didn't pause the game and require you to advance her dialogue, would she be as annoying? Would you even have paid attention to her?

[silk halo]

someone would have xD

back in the day we didn't have Navi to handhold us like the small child, we had to work things out or die trying xD

[amber wind]

Technically the paper manual shipped with the game still counts as "contained within the game" in my book.

[runic patio]

Agreed

[silk halo]

getting all those personal little touches that came with games back then

[amber wind]

I dunno...either the game was simple enough that you didn't need to read the manual...or it was complicated enough that you had to read the manual. I think later, well made games included the manual inside the game itself.

[silk halo]

things moved on but the old maps, pamphlets and posters were cool, and games got so complex the guide books became like library tomes xD

[silk halo]

like move-sets for fighting games 😬

[amber wind]

yeah, in my opinion, Valheim does a pretty good job of explaining the basics but letting the player explore and discover hidden abilities/tools as they come up. I feel like consulting the wiki is pretty much spoilers and revealing the hidden mechanics that the players are meant to discover through exploration and experimentation. I haven't ever really felt like the game didn't explain things to me either through the raven or through online prompts.

I was thinking of old school Wizardry, where all the keyboard commands need a printout page laying next to you for the first dozen play sessions.

Or Xwing/Tie Fighter...so many commands!

[silk halo]

i avoided the craziest ones out there i think xD

[amber wind]

I think when the controllers were simple, AB, Select, Start, D-pad it was okay...but then they started adding all those extra buttons!!!!

[silk halo]

load times used to be a huge killer

not much changes there xD

[amber wind]

Not when the whole ROM fits on 512kb....

Remember floppy disks...I do!

[silk halo]

yup

[amber wind]

When the game is on 12 floppy disks...it's too big! 🤣

Anyways, I'm gonna call it for the evening! I hope you both have a wonderful evening/morning/afternoon! It was a great discussion.

[silk halo]

turn on the game on Friday afternoon, finally playing by Sunday tea-time xD

[wanton atlas]

@blissful hornet
so these red lines under the skill level?

[charred granite]

Getting all the magic, all at once... Is less fun than if I got a little of the magic at a time, through each Biome progression. Like... maybe no magic at first, but there is a little refined eitr at the bottom of troll caves, and if you're savvy, you can make a feather cape. And maybe if you know what's the what,, you can find enough stuff to make a fire staff after exploring enough Fenrir caves. Can make low grade magic food from yellow mushrooms, but, not enough to become a full blown mage, just enough to dabble. Killing wyverns to get a whole lot of ice glands to make a freezy staff? Seems legit.

Just my 2 cents

[fluid goblet]

dabbling doesn't seem fun, I would wanna be able to kill something at least

getting 25 mana foods to simply poke and push

not my jam... I like the gradual exposition to magical things

electric deer, surtling cores, portals, shamans, wards, dvergr technology

frost and fire cults

[runic patio]

That part stands for help for sure; I know the next big patch changes UI stuff so I'm not to harsh in my comments yet.

But, for example, the fact you find a new item and get a popup as to what you can now build is super cool; however most of the time when I get a new item, I just accidently pass over it while I'm running away from a certain foe, so I don't have time to pay attention to the pop-ups...

Then ensues the "hunt for whatevertheheck I can do with this" by opening every crafting thing and hopefully find the item in the list. When you start you have too many new things and later on it gets lost in the sea of existing things, which if you're not super familiar with, is quite hard to spot.

A "simple" and "rather common" solution would be to highlight it or have a little star to mark new stuff to see until you click on it or you have the hover popup show up. Doesn't take that much code or processing.

All that to say, often new items are part of the progression and missing what it does can possibly slow you down a fair bit.

I'm also not super fond of the various "Press [1-8] to place object" interface, 98% of the time I use them, have to go in my inventory and switch what's in the bar, interfact, then revert the item that was in the bar originally.

[granite geyser]

@azure cargo please don't make multi suggestion posts

And water physics are not possible, and will never be.

And you don't even need said physics to sail through rivers in the first place

[azure cargo]

oh sorry I didn't know that😅

[runic patio]

Nothing is impossible, they chose to not do water physics (it's not the core of the game so that makes sense); this would require pretty much an entire engine re-rewrite though, so I'll slap it to just very very very unlikely.

[pure patio]

The tar pits are the closest to water physics that we'll get 😉 they might have some other similar features, but it will never be something global. There are just too many interdependencies at this point for a very minimal feature gain, not to mention the quite likely performance issues.

[arctic wharf]

I like how it water is handled honestly, we don't need waterfalls and moving water around. I do agree an easier way to manipulate the terrain under the water could be worth it though (for reasons I have seen in suggestions).

[blissful hornet]

Yes! But optionally visible when actively gaining said experience in a non-obstructive (visibly) way, maybe in the corner of the screen or something.

[granite geyser]

I'm sure that restarting the entire development of the game at any point in the future (pretty much scrapping all progress done so far) counts as an "absolutely not gonna happen" line of thought

[runic patio]

Not necessarely, changing engines isn't something unseen in development; you just need a will and a means. Would I recommend it? Probably not. But there could be other reasons to do this, such as licensing.

If people are going to nag me about 0.00001fps loss, I'll nag you about a 0.0001% probability ;)

[pure patio]

@north pebble dodge roll isn't a single button, it's multiple. You just press jump while blocking, and the blocking is something you should be doing anyway. You can just hold down block the whole time, it's not like it's some kind of timed keypress or anything, not sure why it would be hard to do?

[wintry bobcat]

I see a lot of people struggling with using two buttons to dodge. I think it is completely understandable

Dodging is a reactionary motion that needs to be able to be triggered swiftly. I can see why it is setup as it is in Valheim, but it seems completely valid to want to rebind it to a less complex key sequence of 1 key instead of a combo of 2 keys

Most games have it just set to 1 key, like ctrl or space

[unkempt raven]

I don't think it makes sense to have a light armour with stagger resistance.

[viscid crater]

It's not that rolling with 2 buttons is hard, it's that it's slow. On controller it's block + B, but B doesn't do anything outside of menus so there's no reason why we have to block as a prerequisite and kbm has an entire keyboard with which to bind the roll

[silk halo]

see Enshrouded does this and i find it totally weird, when i'm trying to roll using Valheim controls i'm jumping in place instead of moving and it feels very alien after being used to jump being replaced by roll for so long

[hexed jewel]

in general though, I DO like the idea of stagger resistance as a stat some piece of equipment could buff--does seem more thematically appropriate for a heavy armor set, possibly and/or a mead?

[arctic wharf]

Mead might be a good choice rather than tied to the armor ye

[wintry bobcat]

Yea I considered it for Heavy Armor but i feel heavy armor already has enough going for it and it seems devs aren't inclined to put extra buffs on heavy armor based on the current armor in-game.

Also I think light armor providing stagger resistance makes just as much sense as it providing pierce resistance.

I feel like stagger resist mead would be too strong, imo it would be better to have to give a tradeoff for the resist

[silk halo]

placing the roll button underneath the sprint button makes it hard to reach and awkward to press

[pure patio]

I mean... heavy armor already provides stagger resistance. Stagger is related to the amount of damage you take, so the stronger your armor and health the less you get staggered.

[wintry bobcat]

But still some people might like it. Again not having ctrl be the preset for dodging, but just giving people the option to change it to whichever button is comfortable for them

[viscid crater]

Yeah there's really no reason not to let people at least have the option to rebind

[wintry bobcat]

yea I just don't feel its enough but that is probably more of a difficulty problem since the game isn't balanced around that.

Just thought it would be cool with more options for builds

[silk halo]

true, i just don't like control layouts that you have to be a wrist octopus to reach/play xD

[wintry bobcat]

same, I like the current dodge mechanic

[pure patio]

Yeah, there hasn't been a ton of balance done around the difficulty sliders. Everything is balanced around "normal", and beyond that you get to deal with some mismatched balance for now. Might be something they address as it goes forward though.

[wintry bobcat]

I still like the idea of being able to build around not getting staggered in Normal but still taking heavy damage, but I can understand if it doesn't fit

[pure patio]

Yeah, it would be interesting if the stagger bar filled at a slower rate in the higher difficulties, scaled against the damage increase.

[wintry bobcat]

I feel like staggering on higher difficulty is alright. Just thought it would be fun to build against it if you find it gets you in trouble

Something that could be tweaked in Very Hard tho would be giving players 25-50% increased parry modifier or something

[north pebble]

I know how to dodge, I'd rather have the option to hockey it to a single one if I so choose. I like having the important actions hptkeyed to the buttons to the side of my mouse. As for hard my grandfather is 74 years old and has trouble with hand eye coordination involving more than one finger

[sterile frost]

very hard difficulty is just ridiculous, you get staggered by anything lol

I switched my hardcore modifier to just hard difficulty, so it says hard+

[granite geyser]

That's essentially the point, very hard difficulty is very hard, nothing shocking

The fact that the difficulty forces you to change tactics instead of relying on the exact same you used in lower difficulties is good thing.

What would be the point of trying to change the gameplay if you're just gonna play the exact same way again?

[pure patio]

Just that it fully negates some techniques instead of scaling them as well. You're already taking extra damage, why add the stagger as well? It does make it a lot more critical for perfect play, true. Just spitballing 😉

[rose swan]

#suggestions message this would be neat. I remember Smiffe saying that snap points create instances/lag though, so maybe it’s intentional that they don’t snap vertically?

[wanton atlas]

How would vertical work?

I might be to tired to understand what he mean

[viscid crater]

Like how stakewalls look maybe? So side-by-side

[pure patio]

Snap the vertical corewood poles like the horizontal ones do, I think. But log cabins should be horizontal, nobody makes vertical walls. That's for lunatics 😛

[sterile frost]

oh well I'm such a lunatic, can't be helped
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1085160078878986282/1219385776530264225/image.png

took me a whole day to build that

[wanton atlas]

cool

it would cost you 1 whole day to move around in that 0.01FPS you would have if we added that many snap-points 🫣

you would have.. like.. 10++ snap points per build piece

meaning that would just.. trilion snap points checks

[sterile frost]

My non-game-programming brain suggests just deleting snap points after the piece is placed

[wanton atlas]

and when you want then back?

[amber wind]

heh heh, you bring up your hammer, and the game crashes.

[sterile frost]

That's why I don't work in game development 🥲

[wanton atlas]

🫂

[hot willow]

I don't quite understand why it doesn't already work. Since other pieces can snap to them, and they snap to the edge of other pieces. Why can't the side edges of vertical poles snap to eachother?

[sterile frost]

It's likely related to snap point checks as mentioned earlier. When you use the hammer the game has to determine where you can snap things. While core wood beams only have top and bottom, core wood poles would have 16 extra points

[unkempt raven]

Disclaimer: I think it's perfectly reasonable that we can't drag a cart weighing several tonnes up steep hills.
While "an incline" isn't a very precise measurement, I did some testing to see more precisely what you can do with a cart. I made a fairly steep hill path, filled a cart with silver (iirc the heaviest ore), tried to run up it and unloaded silver until I could do it. The most I could do was 11 stacks of silver, or 4620kg (I could have tried with non-full stacks but didn't see the need to be that precise).
Apparently we still can't post screenshots in this channel so here they are: #screenshots message

[wanton atlas]

and then take that times like 100-150 log poles for like 1600 - 2400 total snap points

[hot willow]

Ah yeah I get it now, since it's a circle it could snap in all 360°

[wanton atlas]

that would be even worse 🥲

[wanton edge]

Run skill level makes a difference for carts too

[unkempt raven]

Not for how heavy carts you can drag, I think, just for stamina use.

I didn't consider stamina use a relevant factor as you can just take breaks to regain (note my lack of rested bonus, for example). I just wanted to see how heavy a cart I could pull up that hill.

[pure patio]

@gloomy forge Have you played the game much? There's something you can get from Haldor that does what you want. You really should play the full game before making suggestions.

[gloomy forge]

Sorry I'm new to Valheim

[amber wind]

so ~4.6k stones is the limit?

[gloomy forge]

I like building stuff and I wanted to hold a torch and hammer at the same time

[unkempt raven]

A stone weighs 2, so with a limit of 4620 or more (for that patricular hill) that's 2310 stones.

[waxen fog]

just go to sleep lol

[granite geyser]

Then play the game before suggesting...

https://valheim.fandom.com/wiki/Dverger_circlet

[gloomy forge]

Geez sorry, I just want to hold a torch and hammer

[unkempt raven]

You can also just place a torch next to where you're building.

[amber wind]

lol...sorry I was referring to the weight unit...I assumed they were stones, but you're right, they are actually half stones.

[granite geyser]

Or an item stand and the circlet on it

[pure patio]

Armor stand for them, too. Thank me later 😉

[unkempt raven]

I think that's the first time I've seen someone assume stone is the weight unit used in-game. :p

[sterile frost]

Ever tried hammering with just one hand? I mean typically you'd need the other hand to hold whatever you're hammering :P

[amber wind]

I think being able to hold a torch while using the hammer is a valid suggestion. It's a source of light that travels with you, and since you only hold the hammer with one hand...shrug

[amber wind]

Busted thumbs about to happen...

[gloomy forge]

You already do

In game you literally hold the hammer with one hand and hammer with it

[amber wind]

Depends on what you're hammering...

A nail requires two hands...lots of other things only require one.

[gloomy forge]

I'm talking about the game not irl

[granite geyser]

Or a platform and then drop the circlet on it

[pure patio]

But... auto pickup will cause me issues 😦 Maybe a really tall platform...

[amber wind]

@gloomy forge Feel freel to make as many suggestions as you want, regardless of where you are in the game. If they are already solved and just further ahead in the game, they can just be ignored by most people, except for a few who feel the need to point it out it seems.

[wanton edge]

Hrm, I guess the speed helps? I know I've been able to pull carts others couldn't quite when my run skill was higher, but it was in natural conditions with slopes and flat parts so maybe I was able to build more momentum. Sometimes the stamina is important for being able to finish the last slow ass part of the climb before a flat spot too

[unkempt raven]

Probably helps a little bit.

Certainly doesn't hurt at least. :P

[amber wind]

Did you try to wiggle the cart? Feels like that helps too.

[unkempt raven]

Yeah, I had to do that a couple of spots where my smoothing of the path had been a bit sloppy.

[wanton edge]

Also I think the hammer in one hand, torch in the other is a great idea. I want to hold the ||dverger lantern|| (<- mistlands spoiler) while I build. Not a big fan of the circlet and its lighting

[unkempt raven]

11 stacks of silver was doable, I wouldn't claim it was a breeze. 12 would probably have been doable with a lot of frustration, but going two trips would be faster.

And of course this was just a random somewhat steep incline that I happened to be near when I decided to try.

Something like 12-13 degree incline, I think - it looked like it was about half of a 26 degree diagonal beam (i checked with a build piece).

[wanton edge]

Also I think suggestions from folks experiencing the game for the first time is valuable - their perspective is just as important and its easy for devs and long time players to forget what a new experience is like. Sure they might suggest something not knowing its already in the game but that's easy enough to brush over

[sterile frost]

Definitely, I'm not opposed to suggestions from new players. Before the circlet, I'd simply place torches everywhere to keep building at night

[stiff stag]

The main problem with their suggestion is that a torch is a main hand item, not an offhand item, so there would be conflicts on which slot it would go in, when you equip other items.

[amber wind]

Really? How can I equip a sword and a torch at the same time?

[pure patio]

You can't they're both main-hand items like they said. You can equip a torch and a shield, because a shield is an off-hand item.

[unkempt raven]

Torch goes in either hand.

It goes in main hand if you don't have a main hand weapon equipped but in the off hand if you have a sword/mace/axe equipped.

[amber wind]

#screenshots message

[unkempt raven]

The hammer is a two hand item (that's held in one hand).

[amber wind]

Pegster's argument is valid.

The confusion probably comes from that fact that the hammer item says 2-handed, but the graphic on your character they are only using 1 hand. But you can equip the torch in your offhand with a one-handed item still.

[stiff stag]

Oh, guess I forgot that was already a thing since I never use torches.

[amber wind]

Yeah, I hardly ever use torches either. But it would be nice to use them when building at night...but as many have suggested, you can place standing torches as well. They just consume resources and you need to adjust them every so often.

[pure patio]

Or just sleep at night 😛 There's no timer in the game, doesn't matter how many days pass.

[runic patio]

I hate sleeping :p

you have to stop whatever you're doing to go to bed, it's annoying.

I already avoid doing that as much as possible IRL 🤣

[pure patio]

Ahhh, it's all clear now...

Just make a crappy bed and campfire right by where you're working 😛 Even with a torch and lights, it's easier to see things in the daytime

[wanton edge]

Doesn't help with multiplayer, or change the fact that its a simple change that would improve the game, especially when we get a cool ||lantern|| in the mistlands that would be nice to be able to use more.

[icy quarry]

I quite literally made a path as flat and gentle as the game physics would allow, and even though I was able to(frustratingly) cart a full load of iron 80% of the path I'd made, when I got to that last bit that didn't seem like it changed in degree at all, it simply wouldn't budge. Tried everything I know and just no dice. So I looked it up and apparently past a weight threshold you will not be able to pull the cart up an incline, even if the incline is super shallow. Which was very frustrating, since I had spent 5 hours of my day making the path for carts specifically.

I understand having physics mimic reality is nice, but up until a certain point it becomes unfun to try working around.

[finite vapor]

ye it could definitely be toned down a bit, or better, paved roads improve ease of pulling carts

[icy quarry]

I ended up saying fk it and went full Roman Empire. Still can't get a cart up it, but at least if I have to hand bomb iron the same way it will be smooth as butter.

[finite vapor]

sadly walking encumbered holding 20 stacks of iron in your inventory for a bit, throwing them on the ground, refilling stamina, picking them up again and repeat is more efficient than carting a heavy load up an incline

[stiff stag]

It's because you're meant to do multiple round trips if you have way too much to take in one go. That should be pretty clear when filling it up with too much weight makes it completely impractical to move. It's also reasonable that the heavier a cart is the harder it will be to move, especially up inclines.

[granite geyser]

@winter cobalt I'm just going to assume your suggestion is just a joke considering that very first sentence...

One of the best sets in the game "a meme"...

Lol

[silk halo]

bro just wants to be Sonic

[granite geyser]

It's for things like this that I do believe opinions can be wrong

[viscid crater]

9% is massive, 30% would be ridiculous, you'd be ramping off the slightest incline and combat would ba a joke cuz you wouldn't need to sprint ever

[silk halo]

we could add gold rings, and loop the loops....

[granite geyser]

You can already dodge many attacks with that bonus by just moving away (not rolling)

[silk halo]

i think 5% on paved roads would be somewhere around nice

and give them more use than just paint

[granite geyser]

Scrapped due to potential performance issues

[silk halo]

engine related?

[granite geyser]

@civic jay

1. Valheim is a game, not a person, idk why you're requesting things to an inanimate object...

2. Vikings/Norse building Greek-styled columns, makes sense

[granite geyser]

Probably. Smiffe only mentioned it a while ago.

There was or is a mod that does that exactly... And does indeed affect performance notably. And with just average-sized roads. Imagine an entire city with roads all over it...

It's due to the frequent calculations about "player being on road=yes" running in the background

[silk halo]

why is the game trying to detect all the possible road, instead of just checking what's under the characters feet?

seems like an incredibly inefficient way to go about it

[granite geyser]

True. Then maybe the issue would just be the "character on road" part.

And that would be only one player, in a MP server it might get bad

[silk halo]

it could literally just be an invisible cone that checks a couple feet ahead

i think if players were given the option for an extra check vs that nice speed boost, they would choose to sacrifice the fps cost, but short of seeing a side by side it's hard to say anything with such certainty

the devs always seem to want the most accurate way of doing things lol, calculating every road

in this case a fudge would be enough imo

or some sort of detect path slider option with decreasing/increasing checks/area checked

that way at least we could try it out and see

also i put 0 faith in mods, however good, they just aren't the devs coding magic xD

[icy quarry]

I am a huge advocate for roads and general infrastructure, even just aesthetically, but if there were actual function involved? Oh boy

[amber wind]

Yeah, perhaps there should be an upper limit to how much you can carry before you automatically can't move at all...like anything over your encumbered weight limit up to 1000 you can move till your stamina runs out, but any number over that and you instantly are grounded and can't move at all.

[viscid crater]

I think people are carting wrong, you're not supposed to attempt the slope straight on, you're supposed to hoe out a switchback along the side. I've started doing it and it takes maybe a minute to climb a pretty steep cliff

[amber wind]

Pro Tip: Don't forget the wiggle!

[viscid crater]

Don't need to, the slope is so gentle you can make it up with 1000s of units

[amber wind]

Pro Tip #2: Invite a friend, make two carts. Split the load.

[stiff stag]

Also wearing the fenris set (if you have it) and not having a shield or weapon equipped helps a ton. Movement penalties can make a significant difference with heavier loads (although even that won't matter after a certain point).

[eternal storm]

To me the fenris set gets useless after reaching the Mistlands because evading attacks there is often not a choice because of the irregular terrain that risks you getting stuck in a hole, and 1 mistake and you're dead because of the low armor protection. And the disincentive to use a shield makes it worse because it's the only thing that can help while you're stuck and you need to recover while being mauled.

I see it as a late Mountains armor that is still acceptable in Plains because you can Eythkir the hell out of most situations there, but that's it.

[untold urchin]

It's a nice 'getting crap done' set for farming and foraging and whatnot. It's also perfectly fine in plains if you mix it with the root chest or serpent shield and avoid villages or traveling at night.

If anything, plains needs its own light set; fenris is used in lieu of a plains-tier light and while it's 'good enough' for plains, it's a rough transition into mistlands armor. But that won't happen; something something breaking progression monotony.

Much as I hate it, it seems that the iron-sink of padded armor is the intended path into mistlands. Or 'git gud' and be stingy with your battles in fenris.

[eternal storm]

Unfortunately the effects based on wearing the full set are a big disincentive to use parts of such sets. Full fenrir gives resistance to fire, which would be helpful both in Plains and in Mistlands, but you won't use it there outside fringe situations like you mentioned because you need real armor and the bonus to fists is not as good as a substitute.

This is one of the reasons why I suggested to split bonuses between armor set pieces, but it wasn't popular.

[untold urchin]

Splitting resistance bonuses into fractional pieces would probably muddy things a bit on the backend given resistances as is don't seem to be floating percentiles but a 0-6 scale. I'm not sure how that would affect performance either.

[eternal storm]

I don't think so. That armor already splits its movement bonus between its pieces so you can get a little of that just by wearing one. And the root armor splits its resistances between its pieces already, so you can only use the pierce resistance or the poison resistance without having to wear the full set.

It seems like the armors that don't are the ones which gives bonuses to skills, but it would be so easy to change: for example, fenris pieces give +5 to fists each. I guess the game can deal with that just fine.

[unkempt raven]

So an armour set considered by many to be by far the best in the game is "a meme". Interesting use of the word meme, not the one I'm used to seeing.

[amber wind]

I think in this case, they mean it as "a joke"...though I haven't played that far so can't really agree or disagree with their opinion.

[untold urchin]

My thoughts exactly. Has its shortcomings but it's the one I use the most. vOv

[lone prairie]

Tbh, dunno why. Imo just an average set, not the worst, not the best

[unkempt raven]

I haven't tested the full set yet, just crafted my first hood, so I don't know how well I'll like it.

[untold urchin]

As an entire set it's only situationally useful, but the individual pieces are nice to build a a set around other pieces. Root mask in swamp, root chest in plains etc. I don't use it much in mistlands, though. Armor deficit geta a bit much there.

[finite vapor]

fenris legs + root harnesk is my go to setup for higher difficulties pretty much until magic gear is available. speed is super important

on normal mode things dont one shot you so you can just run full fenris kit

[winter cobalt]

I'm surprised anyone would want this but you do you buddy.

[winter cobalt]

Yeah I'm not making that.

[winter cobalt]

I think it's by far the worst.

[winter cobalt]

I can't tell if this is a joke or not. So you get 3% movement speed bonus?

[short wing]

The dude voice: Like, that is your opinion man.

[winter cobalt]

Each piece gives 3% movement speed, and 9% if you get the full set. You don't get the 9% unless you use all the set.

And it's 9% its not a very high number.

You lose 10% movement speed for using the wolf set for example. The offset just doesn't look worth it for the physically survivability you lose even with armour equivalent to the biome.

[untold urchin]

9% more pizza is like a wholeass slice. It's not nothing.

[winter cobalt]

Idk where you got pizza from but i never said its nothing. Just that 9% is low

[untold urchin]

You lose 19% if you're going from fenris to wolf.

[winter cobalt]

You lose like 60 armour bro. Bosses will destroy you if you get hit.

[untold urchin]

Don't get hit vOv

[winter cobalt]

Ohh I see. Good strategy I guess. Except I play with a sword, so why would I do that

I dont see the appeal in it unless you're running around exploring and not fighting anything at all

[short wing]

That's just it, if you get hit and that 60 extra armor isn't much against a boss.
Still with a sword and superior movement speed and dodge rolling you can do hit and run tactics.
The fenris set isn't made to tank, it is made to move in, do some damage, move out, use the environment and such.

[winter cobalt]

I dont think 9% is high enough to justify the grinding it would take to do that play style.

[untold urchin]

Fenris is good for lighter enemies and things you can parry. Spank-and-tank is more of padded armor's forté

[winter cobalt]

Isn't the swamp set just better?

[short wing]

For some people it is and for others it isn't, you clearly belong in the later group.

[winter cobalt]

I'm talking about it because my friend does play ranged but I don't want wolves to kill him from full health because he has a set that gives like 40 armour.

[untold urchin]

Swamp is great until you find a cultist. Or a fuling with a torch. Or a bonfire.

[short wing]

Not better, just different.
I myself am more or a ranged kind of guy or hit and run tactics and using the environment.
My buddy i play with is a tank, so I go root in the swamp while he goes iron.
Different playstyles require different armor and tools.

[short wing]

Barley wine is a thing eventually.
Also don't get hit by things that could set you on fire.

[winter cobalt]

Yes me and my friend do the same but I'd rather he just had a wolf set over the set that gives really low armour and makes it so he has to constantly avoid enemies.

Maybe I'll get the set for him as a gift and just let him decide.

Like I did with the swamp set

[short wing]

If he likes the playstyle of avoiding enemies and using the environment to his advantage let him, why "force" the wolf set on him if he wants to zip around.

[winter cobalt]

He doesn't like avoiding them, he likes to kill them with a knife if they get close.

If I encourage him to cut his armour in half he will get 2 shot by a wolf