suggestion-discussion

[abstract cobalt]

If y'all can't stay civil around each other just block and disengage

[rose swan]

Smoke going through cages- I understand this has been talked about extensively, I’ve seen a handful of suggestions requesting this behavior is changed. Is there a technical reason that this isn’t the case?

[short wing]

Then I can't use my action, I'm not a rogue. I'm still healthy enough.

[rose swan]

Don’t want to suggest something that’s already been declared impossible haha

[brisk turtle]

Yes, the reason they have said they can't do it is because of technical challenges that make it highly unlikely to be added

[quiet marsh]

do norse valkyries actually participate in battles? something really extreme must have went down to be seeing undead valkyries

[mortal lichen]

Are you for or against smoke? 🤔

[quiet marsh]

assuming they weren't undead already

[north rock]

I think it's something to do with the size of the 'particles' they use to represent smoke. If you make them smaller there'd be more processing to do. or something.

[wanton atlas]

https://tenor.com/view/tg-diablo-gif-3023025284478717712

[rose swan]

Smoking is bad!

Ahh gotcha, that makes sense. Thanks for the answer fellas!

[brisk turtle]

I think it has something to do with making objects collide with players but not the smoke?

I know for sure I have seen smiffe or another dev discuss it here or a dev stream or something...

#suggestion-discussion message

Ye, you'd have to make a second class of collidables basically

[versed sonnet]

no idea how the engine works but you figure there could be a way to turn collision off for smoke and certain objects

did the chat just get a 6 hour slowdown? 🤣

Neat, wish I could reply Scarlet, lol. I guess I was bickering?

[wanton atlas]

yes

well for everyone in here bickering

it's a volonteer chat now

right @karmic flax ?

[abstract cobalt]

If my limited knowledge of Unity is correct, turning off collision from a particle would generally make it phase through every physics object. It wouldn't be trivial to make it so that they only phase through certain physics objects.

[short wing]

Probably by rewriting a whole bunch of code, which will require many hours and doesn't bring all that much to the game, would be nice but probably won't happen, the cost versus the gain isn't worth it.

[wanton atlas]

^ this. and
If smoke particles should move through the iron cage floor, you would just die to smoke damage instead.

there. edited 😄

ran pass through since it's easy to do.
it was added before

but smoke is another thing

it's a thing that needs to be able to interact with the player model, and also collide with things

so it's a object

• I wonder if I reset the timer now 🤔

[mortal lichen]

You did

[versed sonnet]

Wait are we free at last?!

Nope, its back to 6 hours

[wanton atlas]

not sure

[abstract cobalt]

Also, just as a clarification, slowmode is applied to everyone at once, not specific users. @versed sonnet you weren't bickering~

[wanton atlas]

try now

[rose swan]

Thought I got caught in that imperial ambush for a minute there lol

[versed sonnet]

Ope?

[north rock]

Yes, it's back to 6. Or at least, the remainder of the original 6.

[versed sonnet]

Oh cool, we're back baby!

[wanton atlas]

https://discordapp.com/channels/391142601740517377/1202313314856603658/1203694535226425416

^ read

and then stop bickering 😄

[rose swan]

I didn’t even consider rain going through iron gates lol

[versed sonnet]

I was goin for more of the midwestern "ope, lemme just squeeze right pastcha"

[wanton atlas]

is it 6h wait now?

[north rock]

Poke.

But it worked for a minute before, so who knows what's going on.

[brisk turtle]

haha I was kind of hoping I was stuck in purgatory for 6h

[wanton atlas]

Hm.. funky.
I just learned something else about discords shortcommings

[versed sonnet]

Trying to do individual slowmodes?

[short wing]

Let's see if it is six hours for me here.

Nope got nothing.

[versed sonnet]

(just enjoy the freedom)

[brisk turtle]

Yeah the way it handles slowmode is kind of funky. I'm guessing you can't turn it back on or it will put the 6h timer back on for people who sent a message while the 6h timer was enabled?

I, for one, volunteer to send no messages for the next 6h if it means you can re-enable slowmode 😂

[short wing]

Probably. I think Smiffe has set a timer and when that goes off it is set back to normal.

[rose swan]

I always feel kinda bad, like I just kinda assume something like ‘smoke goes through cage’ would be something simple, but it always turns out to be something far more complicated than I would ever think lol

[brisk turtle]

Technical limitations be a harsh mistress 🥲

It seems so easy IRL "smoke go through hole!" but as far as the computer knows that's just a wall that looks like it's got holes in it 😭

[wanton atlas]

exactly

so enjoy 5 more hours (or so) until I turn back to 15s

[short wing]

Yeah I was of the same mind till I dabbled with programming, forgot to close a loop and pumped a hard disk full of useless files and made the pc crash.

[versed sonnet]

There is a mod for no smoke collision on iron cages I'm tempted to get so I could make a drippy firepit overhead 👀

[void warren]

It's good 👀

[versed sonnet]

So, I'm curious because I got no idea how mods actually work, but if something was done via modding is it accomplished the same way as vanilla development? Like this isn't a jab I'm geniuenly curious

[short wing]

Yes and no, the code it is written in has to be the same and the artwork needs to be similar but a mod disregards some interactions and adds others.
You can't just take a mod, see how it is made reverse engineer it and slap it in vanilla it needs to be translated and see what else it will interact with.

[brisk turtle]

There are a lot of answers to this, potentially, but a few candidates-

• Modders have more resources in terms of time than valheim devs do. There could be one person who does nothing but make and maintain the "smoke passes through iron bars" mod, even though that would divert one of the official devs quite a bit from other more important stuff
• Modders can do stuff that devs are not always able to do because of back-end compatibility stuff generally
• The official version of the game has to pass through a bunch of certifications and stuff in order to be listed which can sometimes limit them on what they can do, and this is further complicated by the xbox port
• A lot of mods like this are technically possible but have a high graphics or computing overhead, which means that the devs could add them but the performance would be almost unusable for half the players

[versed sonnet]

so basically it's a case of engineering vs redneck engineering lol

[brisk turtle]

Kind of, yeah. Like, you could put a microwave oven in your car's glove compartment, but there's a reason this isn't a standard feature on new cars from Toyota 😅

These are just guesses, though, the exact answer is probably all of the above and none of the above. Those are just common challenges with "modded features" vs. "vanilla features"

[ornate kelp]

but my pizza rolls!

[olive yacht]

Imagine if we can dual wield weapons that would be badass

[brisk turtle]

I think they have said this is unlikely, but instead we have weapons which are two of a kind! Like the claws

[short wing]

You'll need to eat them cold, or install that microwave yourself.
You'll also need to install an extra battery to power that microwave, add some heat and radiation shielding and shock absorbers if you don't want to wreck your brand new toyota.

[olive yacht]

Would’ve been cool, one of the ashlands enemies dual wields axes

[sudden obsidian]

@wary shuttle they can’t, game is early access

[rose swan]

||if I’m not mistaken, I believe that’s the player holding two axes|| <Ashlands spoiler

[olive yacht]

See? Dual wielding does exist

[north rock]

It already does, we have two dual wield weapons already in the game.

[olive yacht]

Yes but for a specific weapon

Imagine early game you can attack with two flint axes

[north rock]

Two weapons. And the devs have said in the past that it'll probably only ever in paired weapons rather than allowing players to mix and match.

[rose swan]

Ahh gotcha, I see what you’re saying. Like customize what you’re duel wielding basically? That would be really cool, I’d love to hold a bronze mace in each hand to fight, that would be neat. But yeah, I don’t think this would be a great fit for vanilla, but that would be a really cool mod though 👍

[wanton atlas]

we can. but we don't want to add achivements before 1.0

[granite geyser]

Which one?

[wanton atlas]

yeah. which one

you mean this bad boy?

I don't wanna fight that one

[granite geyser]

I'm 99% sure that's what they meant

That's the character

[wanton atlas]

yeah.. that's like "nope" and run for your life 😄

[wanton atlas]

wrong colored eyes tho

tho I don't think I've seen anyone who noticed the eye color

🤔

[granite geyser]

I noticed, but haven't seen someone mentioning it

[rose swan]

I noticed, but I was told it was a helmet effect.
Edit to clarify, we speculated it was a helmet effect

[granite geyser]

Or not, I think some did and I just said something along the lines of "that must be due to the helmet/armor"

Me or someone else said it, idk, but it was mentioned that's what it is

Or they're adding customisation options and eye colour is one of them

[rose swan]

I don’t really remember either haha curse the server wipe!

[wanton atlas]

by who? 😄

[rose swan]

I don’t remember unfortunately 😦 It wasn’t an official response, I remember that much.

[wanton atlas]

then it's just guesswork 😄

since we don't have any external testers outside the team while we "build" the update

and then comes PTB 😄

so...

[rose swan]

I think my message was a bit misleading haha I fixed it though. Yeah, I think me and couple others were talking about it (the eyes glowing red) and the speculation was that it was likely a helmet effect.

It was around the same time we were talking about the Ashlands plants ||🌶️|| and the topic of the glowing eyes came up. I think that’s as far as I remember.

@tranquil jay I’m assuming your suggestion has to do with labeling chests and such? I like it! Also, in the meantime, you can use item stands to label things, might help.

[tranquil jay]

indeed

[pure patio]

You should also be able to paste any Unicode character, that might work for icons?

[tranquil jay]

@pure patio I'm looking for specific icons, the ones of the items. To help sorting them, one chest by item.

[ruby girder]

I use icons in mine but yeah, meats are all same icon etc

[wintry bobcat]

@keen flare I think roll does have immunity frames, and there’s difficulty settings for if you feel enemies do too much damage

[rose swan]

Can confirm, rolling does have I-frames

[keen flare]

My main issue is all the enemies that are able to stun lock me and stop my combo, but I am never able to do the same. Or the Matron that one hits you, or the flying screaming chicken that can hit you while its talons are facing the other way and you have successfully rolled behind it. I feel the combat system needs more work, its fine for lower levels but when facing 30s who can quick strike twice and delete a tank, its kinda op, especially when you really cant reliably roll away like DS3 or ER.

[rose swan]

Which enemies exactly? What enemies/biomes are you struggling with? Remember that rolling costs stamina, similar to DS3 and Eldenring, and without stamina you cannot roll.

[silk halo]

you need high dps to keep a mob's stagger bar filled

worth noting that some of them are immune to the effect, as well as bosses, so yr dodge roll is the best thing to use in those cases

[wintry bobcat]

Higher hp will also stop you from getting staggered from most mobs but the real big ones

I don’t know if you’re giving very wacky mob descriptions or if you’re doing modded gameplay tho. Hard to tell what mobs you’re struggling with

[karmic flax]

You can stunlock most enemies

[silk halo]

exactly, and the only times you'll be facing multiple incoming hits all at once is usually in Mistlands dungeons, or a few other situations if you get unlucky and get swamped with mobs (raids as well)

[karmic flax]

@granite scroll "necks are cute" buddy, you'd fall prey to the siren of the swamp

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixie_(folklore)

[silk halo]

sounds like mountain mobs but can't be sure, probably modded in which case suggest changes to the mod author if possible

[karmic flax]

Well yeah its modded. Theyre talking about having 1200 hp

[wintry bobcat]

Could also be exaggerating for dramatic effect tho

[silk halo]

smells of mods all over, the janky hitboxes for one xD

[rose swan]

The flying screaming chicken, possibly mod. Possibly he got early access into the Ashlands beta. ||kidding||

[granite geyser]

Drakes

Idk what the matron is

Maybe moder

[silk halo]

they could be oblique references but i think they are modded

[unreal schooner]

Taming necks with fish is like taming boars with yggdrasil porridge. I would prefer catching fish with necks as bait

[granite geyser]

That just gave me the idea of what if necks could catch fish if there's a fish bank nearby...

Mostly an aesthetic effect, if you could get the fish by killing the neck it would just become automated fishing

[unreal schooner]

All the necks would go extinct very quickly in my world if they were to offer me some fish.

[silent echo]

I just want to be able to befriend the necks

They're such little guys.

[unreal schooner]

They don't know what friendship is. They don't have friends. Even boars and deer hate them (mb secretly).

[brisk hollow]

Current tames: Boars (Meadows), Lox (Plains), Wolves (Mountains), and Hens (Mistlands). Black Forest and Swamp are missing a tame.

[rose swan]

I will die on this hill, we should have foxes in the Black Forest 🤷🏼‍♂️ ||kidding||

[wintry bobcat]

I'd argue chickens are plains, but I've seen arguments for them being Mistlands or Black Forest

[unreal schooner]

Oh, i can really see you there from my own add-a-lynx hill;)

And I don't ask for many. Add just 1, but super sneaky

Noone will even know it is there))

[unreal schooner]

It just depends where your base/farm is

[wintry bobcat]

I'd say it depends where you obtain it

Bring a boar to your mistlands base and the boar isn't a mistlands tame, it's a meadows tame

Technically by that logic hen is Black Forest, but I'd say most the work for it happens in Plains

all semantics

[unreal schooner]

I mean there is no chicken outside of your farm. Technically it's not even a tame

[wintry bobcat]

Isn't it?

I'd say it's a pretamed-tame

[wanton edge]

nah its the biome that unlocks the tame, hen is definitely a plains tame. Plains is also the only place you can find naturally ocurring eggs vs buying them

[wintry bobcat]

Dapper has the based opinion

and yea I forgot you can find them there now

[unkempt jackal]

So necks are supposed to be horses, but somehow they ended up as lizards in the game? Why, devs, why?

[unreal schooner]

I never encountered a wild one, but mb they're all well-tamed🤔

[unreal schooner]

In northern mythology everything is a horse actually;) even yggdrasil itself

[unkempt jackal]

Yet no horses in the game. What a shame

[unreal schooner]

Or.. plenty of them, depends on you to decide

[wanton edge]

I'm not sure we need a tame for every biome though. A little variety as you progress through the biomes is nice

[north rock]

Smiffe has said there are gaps in the progression tree for all sorts of things deliberately.

[wintry bobcat]

I personally like not being able to use the same weapon every biome

[wanton atlas]

horses don't need to prove themself to odin to go to valhalla

[wintry bobcat]

Although I do think choice for light armor in plains could be sick

[silk halo]

deer confirmed unworthy

[wanton atlas]

hell no

they jump infront of cars just because they can

[silk halo]

and wild horses would stop, look and listen i'm sure xD

[wanton atlas]

yes

horsies are good bois

just like cats

[silk halo]

road safety experts

[wanton atlas]

fur sure

[unkempt raven]

Cats even wear helmets.

[granite geyser]

They would actually control the traffic to avoid blockades

[silk halo]

my last driving instructor was a horse

[unkempt raven]

Hoarse from shouting and screaming?

[rose swan]

Is Haldor unworthy 👀

[silk halo]

only driving instructors qualify for valhalla

[unreal schooner]

How deer can even prove good behaviour in front of cars in Valheim?

[unkempt jackal]

How about taming Eikthyr? I think he can be handy in the long run

[granite geyser]

He sells you dirt disguised as the flesh of the primordial giant...

Guess

[pure patio]

There's a whole subreddit dedicated to how stupid deer are. Many videos of people freeing them from being trapped in a fence in one place for the deer to just run 20 yards away and get stuck the exact same way again.

[ornate kelp]

fear is a powerful motivator

[silk halo]

and what cars did deer need to avoid pre 1500?

[unreal schooner]

So deer are horses trapped in fences on the way to Valhalla

[pure patio]

Interesting fact: Antelope in America are fast as hell. They can sustain over 50mph over long distances. There are no predators that can come close to catching them, but in the past there used to be a North American Cheetah. They outlasted it and are now the fastest land animal in the Americas IIRC.

[unreal schooner]

Now this is a perfect place for car jokes

[wintry bobcat]

faster than a snail though? Didn't think so

[silk halo]

sinister deer with no road sense even though roads were mostly dirt tracks

[karmic flax]

Do matkers get shared in cartography map if you hide them on your own map first?

[unkempt raven]

No.

[karmic flax]

Yeah just checked

@amber wind

[amber wind]

Thanks, I did not know this, but it would be nice to select individual markers, but that is something!

One thing I was thinking would be really helpful was some kind of arrow icon on the map, that you can rotate in 8 directions (N, NE, E, etc...) to indicate paths or access points or something.

[north rock]

How is it so many people know of Jörmungandr. but not why it makes no sense for him to be in Valheim?

[wintry bobcat]

Because people have more experience with Norse mythology or interpretations of it then they do with the story of Valheim?

[unreal schooner]

Like zero sense? Why?

[karmic flax]

Valheim is loosely based on norse mythology, some deviations arent the end all

[granite geyser]

Valheim is not meant to be a 1:1 representation of Norse mythology.

And jormund is the world serpent that surrounds Midgard, not valheim.

[wanton edge]

I mean, those two statements combined mean jormund being a part of valheim or not is all fair play. Depends on what the devs wanna do with their interpretation of the mythology

[unreal schooner]

Same as Eikthyr then in that sense. You can call it differently, not Jörmungandr itself, his cousin, but there may be a Serpent at the edge of the world

[granite geyser]

Fair. I have commented on an Easter egg involving the edge of the world.

Rather than insta dying, it could be a serpent-like creature eating you out of nowhere

[unreal schooner]

I am sure existing now serpents are some sort of Jörmungandr's reflection

[granite geyser]

They are a reference yes

[unreal schooner]

First time i travelled to the edge i was kinda expecting some serpent mentions

[north rock]

@heavy idol We HAVE inventory expansions. They're called the cart and the lox.

[heavy idol]

yes but just milling about my base or trying to sneak around in a forest gets very frustrating when picking up too many dandelions and stones on accident makes it so i miss some loot that i just didn’t realize i didn’t pick up.

like i said, i don’t want super drastic changes, just enough to be a bit more convenient. (not to mention that one of those options you can get in like a few hours and then the next one is endgame)

it would also be fine if there were just more things like the cart and the lox throughout the game.

(sorry if this is a bit inaccurate, i only got 20 hours, just smth i’ve noticed)

[north rock]

If you're picking up stuff by accident, just turn off auto-pickup and only collect what you need. A huge part of Valheim is inventory management and preparation.

[pure patio]

Pro tip: Split stacks to fill your inventory only with things you want, and you will just add to existing stacks and not pick up anything not already in your inventory.

[heavy idol]

i understand very limited inventories in games like kenshi that encourage you to get more party members, and i understand them in games ABOUT inventory management, but so far, that does not feel like what valheim puts focus on. it would be fine if the inventory mechanics were clearly trying to encourage puzzle solving and creativity, but they aren’t, it’s just like any other inventory but more frusterating

[north rock]

I tend to get overweight long before I run out of inventory slots.

[rose swan]

#suggestions message had to look this up haha but this is already in the game, yeah?

FYI, they’re the stone structures you can find in the meadows, they’re like little arches.

@junior finch

[heavy idol]

honestly, kinda like the small inventory, but there’s only one upgrade for it through the whole game. it would be nice if they kept the inventory how it is in the early game, then made it a part of progression

[north rock]

Well, so far anyway.

And as I say, once you've unlocked the cart or tamed a few lox, inventory stops really being an issue.

[pure patio]

There are two inventory upgrades: The Mengingjgongongjogjord, and the cart 😛

[rose swan]

The meningitis?

[karmic flax]

Have saddlebags been added or are you talking about riding encumbered?

[north rock]

Riding encumbered.

[mortal lichen]

I do this!

[toxic dawn]

To be fair, most of the inventory suggestions are about slot space, not encumbrance so using lox riding as a counterpoint doesn’t really work.

Players also often wind up carrying more gear later in game progression for various purposes: for example carrying a wisp light and carry weight belt around in mistlands whereas in earlier biomes they might just be carrying the belt

that being said I personally think the current limitations are fine as is.

[heavy idol]

thanks for actually seeing what i’m saying. maybe i’ll grow out of this opinion idk

[karmic flax]

Lox and cart are both niche helps, not an overall increase yea

[wide halo]

I feel like there should be a later game inventory space upgrade, I don’t think slots for armor and tools should be a thing because the way it is now makes you think about the use of space more, makes it more personal, less video gamey, doesn’t incentive always having armor, and going with less tools grants the payoff of more space for resources. I think more slots should be available later on to allow for a roamer set up like in early game instead of short trips

@bitter lodge use the sun, makes it even more difficult

[finite vapor]

Yes it would be nice to have more slots in the late game since there's more weapons to use, more meads to carry, more accessories and more stuff to pickup

[wanton edge]

@junior finch would you mind elaborating on your suggestion? I'm not sure what you're advocating for

[north rock]

I thought it was clear. They want to be able to place dolmen as waypoints to mark their routes.

[wanton edge]

Oh, so dolmen as building pieces? Seems a bit of an odd way to phrase that, I was thinking maybe they meant using the existing dolmen as some sort of navigational aid or something.

Regardless it looks like a little clarity/elaboration from the author would help folks understand it better, given no one has voted on it

[rose swan]

I’m having a hard time understanding exactly what he’s trying to say as well. I think he’s on to something, I just don’t want to misinterpret his idea. I thought maybe he wanted a map icon of a (scrolls back to check spelling) dolmen.

Someone’s already suggested it since the discord wipe, but I remember us talking about cairns being a useful item for no-map playthroughs and just basic immersion.

[bitter lodge]

The sky isn’t always visible

[amber wind]

Is there any craftable objects in the game that players can interact with that automatically puts a single custom named location/marker on their maps at the location it is crafted?

[unreal schooner]

Honestly with all the possibilities hidden inside simple signs (gigantic fonts, colours, icons) i never needed anything more to play a no-map. You can get as creative with them as you wish. You can make even whole navigational systems floating right in the air just for yourself.

[toxic dawn]

Perhaps some players want something more immersive

[wooden spoke]

The slots would be fine now if we didn't have to waste 5 slots on gear. Gear should NOT take up slots in our inventory. ijs

[bitter lodge]

There’s a nice little mod that gives you dedicated weapon and armour slots

[wooden spoke]

I don't use mods, but ty

[bitter lodge]

I used to say I’d never use mods in Valheim, but there’s a few small quality of life mods that really enhance the base functionality, and now I can’t live without them. Auto repair at benches for example.

[finite vapor]

Yeah word. A couple extra would go a long way

[bitter lodge]

Haven’t the devs come out said they’re not going to add any more?

[north rock]

Yes.

[bitter lodge]

Mods it is then

[finite vapor]

yea it do be like that

[north rock]

Or learn inventory management.

[wooden spoke]

Well if they "fixed" it so we didn't use slots for gear, then I guess that would work for more slots, right?

[brisk turtle]

#suggestions message @trim patrol fyi if you "record" your discoveries before you get new information from the map table, it won't copy everyone else's pins, or at least that's the way it used to work 🤔

[finite vapor]

🤡

had this arguement before with the same gatekeepers but carrying a pocket portal around 24/7 in the game isnt fun

[brisk turtle]

The devs have for sure said multiple times they don't plan to add any additional inventory or armor slots, as they see inventory management to be an integral part of the game challenge.

Some people might say "learn inventory management" like you're wrong, or lack skill, for wanting more slots, but I think the point of view for wanting more slots is valid, just not one that the devs share

[wooden spoke]

Yeah your right Arnpor, but there are times when things need to be corrected and developers need to listen a bit more to the players. Having a certain person always throwing negative jabs gets old, especially when they are nothing but a player in the game.

[bitter lodge]

Derek being his usual stirring self

[brisk turtle]

Unfortunately the only thing we can do about it is submit reports to modmail if we feel someone is violating rules

[finite vapor]

it was a nice month of peace in here but sadly its come to an end

[brisk turtle]

Also I will push back on the "developers need to listen a bit more to players" line... I think, conversely, players in gaming generally would do well to be more deferential to devs. Players playing the game and buying it does not give them some special privilege to tell the devs what to do

I love that devs give us this space to suggest things, though! And they have certainly used players' ideas in the past! Ultimately I just trust the devs to continue delivering a great game to us

[bitter lodge]

I’m glad they haven’t caved to requests for taking ore and other valuable items through portals. The game would be otherwise too easy

[finite vapor]

or nerfing mobs

[brisk turtle]

They gave people options for those, though! So they do listen to players, maybe just not always the way we expect or want 🙂

[finite vapor]

yeah the modifer system is great and opened up a lot of new replayability for the game

[stark furnace]

Praying they don't nerf ashlands when players complain about the difficulty and just tell them to lower their world combat modifier

[finite vapor]

still miss my super fast mist hares

[brisk turtle]

I just can't wait to do fortress events. Looks like it's going to be a lot of fun. It's like we're doing raids on the mobs instead of them raiding our base 😄

[north rock]

That's the great thing about the modifiers. The "default" game CAN be how they want.

[wooden spoke]

They do listen as I myself has had a suggested implemented into game

[stark furnace]

In the walk and talk the devs said they ended up getting hunted by the mobs they were hunting down Love that

[hallow summit]

🤔

[arctic wharf]

Ye give derek a bit too much grief, has never really been too mean from most of what I have seen. 👀

There is a tiny bit of gatekeeping in regards to things the devs have given statements on though, I won't completely deny that either. And it's not exclusive to only one person ever. As long as it does not get aggressive it's fine though haha.

I do wish the devs might reconsider one or two of their viewpoints, but at the end of the day it is their game for them to make the decisions on. Despite that myself and others are still plenty free to feel the game could really benefit from a few additional choice points to give into community feedback.

Horses and bears, oh my!
Being firm on not adding those is plenty fine.

Having a way to alleviate a tiny bit of the common inventory clutter or making karts just a bit more bearable to use could be points to consider additions for though. Not even changes neccessarily, but additions in the form of a later tier kart or a pouch just for all them random overworld herbs or your shiny portables with coins and gems.

These are smaller points even 😋

Is for sure just a few larger matters I would love to see them tackle in the future... though I doubt and stay mostly silent as an observer.

Even if I may come off a bit pessimistic btw, I am ofcourse a huge fan of valheim like most others here. Is a lot to love about the game and I would never deny that either.

[bitter lodge]

I wouldn’t say mean, but his responses can be annoying.

[arctic wharf]

🤷‍♂️ people but heads a bit sometimes, as long as we all stay civil it's all good in the end. ❤️

[karmic flax]

i think the problem is just people talk differently, and dont understand how others talk, and might see offense where there's none implied

[arctic wharf]

I agree 😁 well said

[silk halo]

screed much? xD

[arctic wharf]

screed?

[karmic flax]

big long text

[arctic wharf]

I learned a new word haha, had to google it

[karmic flax]

referenceto an earlier part of the conversation

[arctic wharf]

but yeah, it was. I can type a lot when I want to talk about something 😅

valheim is also one of a handful of games I can get passionate about.

[trim patrol]

Tried that. Deleted icon, recorded, and then my friend read then recorded and the icon was back

We had to both delete the icon

[arctic wharf]

liked the suggestion btw, just thought it would be awkaward if you might randomly lose icons you wanted due to the original maker deciding to remove it from theirs. I do think the map table could benefit from some method of finer control though 🙂

[amber wind]

Yeah, I guess the idea would be if you read from the table, and then click the location to move it to your map, will that location also be deleted from your personal map if the person who originally made it removes it from their map? And then it starts the cycle again of people writing it back to the table, and it reappearing. Is there any way to remove everything from your map besides clicking on every single icon? (And not a devcommand or a console command...). As the cartography table is right now, now one wants to use it because it just creates duplicates and clutter.

I should say, no one in our server wants to use it...

[unkempt raven]

I'd like a little more control over what you copy, but not losing stuff because my mate accidentally deleted a pin.

[wanton edge]

This is why I think pocket portals need to be nerfed a bit - there's quite a few things devs say they want for valheim that pocket portals just negate, and iventory management is one of them. Pocket portal = infinite inventory = little inventory management

[unkempt raven]

The table is perfectly fine as it is, but you need to think and plan how to use it to avoid clutter, which often is impractical even with only sensible people in the group.

[amber wind]

Create multiple tables each with a specific sharing purpose.

[wanton edge]

Someone said earlier that pins aren't recorded to the map if you hide them first - maybe if the game made that clear to the players it would be a better way to limit pin clutter?

[amber wind]

Can you hide individual pins? I thought you can only hide every instance of each type?

@unkempt raven What is your normal strategy to minimize clutter when using the cartography table with a small group of sensible people? I'm open to suggestions.

[unkempt raven]

Gotta work now, will try to remember some stuff when I have a break. :>

[north rock]

@amber wind There is already a portal marker.

[unkempt jackal]

Having a portable portal with the modifier to teleport everything with the portals is the only solution I have for the limited inventory. In some games you have upgrades of your backpack giving you more slots (Planet crafter), in other you can have a companion and a vehicle with extra slots (7d2d). The more stuff you need to carry with you, like potions in order to survive, the less available slots you have for anything else. And good luck using carts and loxes in the mistlands!

[silk halo]

just have 1 person allocated to making map markers, and only mark stuff that's super important (mainly bases and dungeons)

foraging/mining spots are so common it's not worth marking them except for a spot you're actively in, and those markers can be removed when you move to a new area

[coarse solar]

The people I play with (my husband and a few of our friends) would never agree to any form of pin management 😂 But having their pins on my map and having those re-applied every time you copy from the table even though you deleted them gets tedious. I think it would be great if there was a “hide” category you could fill up yourself. That way you could hide pins so they would not reappear on your map when you copy from the table.

My solution has been to play with no map (and no portals) which I am loving. Sadly it’s solo because my husband likes his conveniences and is refusing to join me 🫣

[silk halo]

any particular reason or they just love laggy messy maps? xD

[coarse solar]

None of them can be bothered putting effort into it sadly. Not as much a problem for them as it is for me so they just don’t care.

[wanton atlas]

right click on the category to hide them

[eternal storm]

A simple but maybe not definitive solution would be a button to filter out all pins added by other characters. so you can shift between your own map and the collective map at least.

[unkempt raven]

I saw some of it mentioned but I said I'd come back to you. Some things that work at least fairly well:

• Agree on what to pin and which pins to use for what
• Have a designated "cartographer" who is the one to mark the various common stuff, everyone else just copies the table without adding their own (leaving a pin type unused lets others mark stuff they find that is important without copying over more than those specific ones).
  There was more I was thinking of but I can't recall it right now.
  These of course requires proper communication and cooperation, and even then it's easy to make mistakes.
  I would like some sort of filter for what is copied to/from the table, but at the same time it's not something I find important enough to think should have much priority.

[near citrus]

My friends and I usually always use the same words, blueberries, raspberries, crypt, etc., there could be a filter by words. a search bar let's go.

[unkempt raven]

If you just want to copy some of your pins of a type to the table you can also do it in two steps by making a second table and copying your pins over and then a second person copies that, eemoves the unwanted ones and then copies to the main table, but that's fairly inconvenient.

[coarse solar]

Thanks for the reply. I do use this feature, but then it also hides all my own pins in that same category as well. It would be nice to just hide pins that are not my own, rather than a category I am also using myself. I can soldier on, no worries, just a QOL request for people like me who play with friends who really don’t care about keeping maps clean and neat 😂

[silent echo]

There should be a "cartography table" show/hide button on the bottom of the map. That should hide any cartography table markers that you haven't validated with left-click.
The only flaw is that the button hides any terrain mapped by others as well, not just the markers, and I don't believe there's any way to validate terrain discovery aside from going there yourself.

If hiding your pins before copying to table works, that's fantastic and will save my friend from having to delete all my resource pins going forward 😂 I do agree that I wish it was more telegraphed in-game as a functional feature tho. There's a lot of stuff in Valheim I only figure out through conversation around the game, rather than the game itself, which can be frustrating.

[edgy tangle]

Hello all! SKOL!!! My boy and I LOVE this game and wanted to contribute. Here is our wishlist for the 1.0 release:
• PLEASE improve the skill leveling system by making it so you get more XP for skills when fighting stronger enemies or using your skills in more difficult areas of the map. Currently, you work so hard to get your main fighting skill up or even a basic skill like swimming but then you lose a lot when you die. Going into new areas has a decent learning curve, but it just feels like getting a skill to 100 is near impossible unless you’re a god. Ha
• Give heavy armor unique traits like how light armors have unique traits. Currently, you just get the nice damage reduction, but it is so much more fun when gear actually provides something unique like how the light armors give you sneak, bow, or movement bonuses.
• Please add a plains light armor set. I read a reddit post that had a good idea for some sort of berserker outfit to fit the tribal theme of the furlings. Maybe the armorset gives you more damage dealt when you take damage, have less than full health or half health (incentivizing using a lot of food so you can get half health), or two handed weapon buff. Something along those lines would be fun.
• PLEASE TO GOD let us customize our ship sails at full release! It would be sick to sail the seas with my boys and all of us have different sails like how we can have different shield colors.
• Add a multiple crafting button for various items like food and arrows so we don’t have to spam the button.
• Look into a way to make ponds above sea level or water holding tanks to make pools, bath houses, fish tanks. My boy dreams of making a small waterfall that runs into his pond at his base.

[granite geyser]

#suggestions

But please one suggestion per post.

And the last suggestion is impossible, don't bother with that one

[short wing]

Like Rianu says, put those in #suggestions but do put a lightbulb emoji in front else it will get auto deleted.
One suggestion per post.
Don't bother with the last one else they'll have to rewrite how the world works and that is an endeavor that will set the game back a couple of months if not years.

[brisk turtle]

You can bother with the last one if you want, just be aware it's a common suggestion and the devs have expressed that it's unlikely to be added due to technical challenges

[edgy tangle]

Thanks for the feedback to my feedback! 😄

[silk halo]

don't count on enemies xp changing either

[short wing]

True but it is in more in the realm of possibilities than the water mechanic changing.

[silk halo]

hard no from Smiffe previously, all of them are repeats tho tbh

[short wing]

Yeah and we have seen hard no's change, not much but it has happened, no?
Yeah they are repeats, just goes to show that more people want those things in game, doesn't mean they should make it in the game if the devs don't find a good way or even want to implement them though.

[rose swan]

#suggestions message I like the idea of changing how skills work, but if this suggestion was implemented, wouldn’t the running and possibly jumping skill constantly be getting degraded with each death, since those are far more common used skills?

[unreal schooner]

They would, but these two are the most used ones so you can quickly get their levels back. Usually running, jumping and wood cutting have the highest levels for a player

And now all the skills get degraded, so it won't change much for those skills

[wanton atlas]

we might adjust that stuff just before 1.0 launch
but not very likly to change at all

[arctic wharf]

Shame, always wondered why higher level / biome tier content sid not give a bit more exp. Just makes natural sense to lessen the huge grind reaching lvl 100 can be as you progress... or at the very least more naturally pushing higher levels.

Chopping trees? What tier axe are you using... higher tier means more xp. 🤣 or perhaps it is tied to the type of tree being chopped.
And so on.

[pure patio]

We've had a lot of discussion on this, but you generally aren't intended to get anywhere near 100 on your skills. That's why there are the penalties and the increasing XP needed per level. The Mistlands is tuned to around level 40 skills IIRC, and in general they're just considered a bonus, not necessary. I get lots of people like "number goes up" gaming, but there's a reason that the skills aren't featured too prominently and only enhance existing capabilities, they don't add new ones.

Level 100 skills kinda break the game in general

[unreal schooner]

I wonder what is the highest level of swimming you guys naturally achieved? Because for me it's always like 6-7 max;)

[pure patio]

I've gotten to 20-ish or so

[arctic wharf]

If they are not an actual consideration with future content than why is it even a part of the game. 🤣
The passive levels in general is one feature I could debate for a long time.
Just an aspect that loves to remind me how much I should ignore it's existance.

[pure patio]

They are a consideration. The problem is that people think they need to go to 100 because the scale goes to 100, and that's the core of the issue. They don't.

[arctic wharf]

The natural though... if you can achieve 100 than many are going to want to...

Kinda why I wish XP also had diminishing returns for lower biome tier content too as they get higher, since this would dissuade trying to grind them up and instead letting them passively increase as you progress as intended.

[pure patio]

They could always just reduce the actual effectiveness of skills, and make them easier to gain? So level 100 would be like level 50 is now, and just never go over that, but it's easier to get to.

[arctic wharf]

That's an option as well yeah. A bit heavy handed but it would satisfy many I am sure.

Which is a good thing... since being satisfying is great for a game mechanic haha.

[pure patio]

I dunno. I find it kinda satisfying as it is, each level is a reward for not dying. I've only ever naturally gotten 100 in running and jumping in any playthrough, and it felt like an accomplishment for sure. Grinding specifically to max out stats is for Pokemon, not vikings 😉

[arctic wharf]

If there is a number than gamer return to monkey brain is going to want to see them go up and achieve perfection 🤭

Not everyone ofcourse, but many.

[pure patio]

It's greek, but it's basically a sysiphean task by design 😉 Maybe they can tie some "You really have no life, do you?" type achievements to hitting 100 in skills without console enabled.

[granite geyser]

@sterile frost I'm sure the ||meteor rain|| and ||lava rivers|| must be enough obstacle hazards as to add even more.

[sterile frost]

We could use more chaos 👀

[ornate kelp]

having a group of 1 star fulings and beserkers show up at your base for a raid is enough chaos for me.

[pure patio]

💡 Magic should work like Wild Magic Sorcerers in D&D, random chance of a silly effect like teleporting you 10m away, shooting you up into the air, firing lightning instead of fire/ice, spawning a herd of deer...

[rose swan]

Lol I’ll do you one better, in Warhammer Tabletop RP, wild magic has a chance to mutate you (extra limbs, horns, tentacles, etc) or just outright kill you lol.

[sonic quest]

Tamed Necks getting more disslikes than likes shows humanity is flawed

[granite geyser]

Meadows already has a tamed animal, doesn't need more.

And most creatures should remain huntable-only. If they made necks tameable then people would just ask for the next mob to be tameable, and then the next, and the next...

It's a monster slayer game, not a monster tamer

[unreal schooner]

I think in neck communities it would also be downvoted because necks are proud independant creatures;)

[fluid galleon]

Says who?

[granite geyser]

First part: The game itself

Second part: Me. But I don't need to see the future to know that the second half of that paragraph would 100% happen

[unkempt jackal]

Imagine we can tame Moder and then sadle her. That would be epic!

[wanton edge]

I think the non-combat skills (asides from run & jump) could use some help, especially fishing which encourages you to try to level it up to catch new fish but is slow to level.
Feels real bad to spend awhile working on fishing just to have it negated next adventure you go on. Vs losing combat skills doesn't feel as bad. You still lament the loss but it feels more... fair? 🤔 probably because you can work on getting them back while overcoming the challenge that made you lose them

What are the thoughts against the idea of limiting skill loss to active skills? I do think it would do a good job of maintaining that feeling of fairness, since anything you lost would be related to what you're in the middle of doing and so it doesn't feel like you've lost progression you won't naturally get back.

I don't think it would change how easily your combat levels get high (asides from being able to try out a new weapon for awhile without the old one losing significant progress), so I don't see a combat balance issue.

[rose swan]

How about having different categories of skills? The most basic classification could simply be ‘combat’ and ‘non-combat’ skills. I agree, there are certainly skills that get used more/level up faster because they’re more common, then you have skills like fishing that is 1) very useful, 2) level up slowly, and 3) difficult to grind up.

[pure patio]

Each skill already has its own multipliers and growth rate, it should be possible to just tweak those settings

[wanton edge]

I definitely think those settings need a rebalance! But not sure that addresses the "skills you don't use super often/while adventuring lose progression in a frustrating way" problem. Making them just be a lot easier to level up doesn't necessarily make using and working on them feel better

[wanton edge]

I'm not sure I'd go as far as "never lose non-combat skills", but something between that and how it currently is could be good

[rose swan]

I agree, I think ultimately skills may just require a little bit of a re-visit, perhaps closer to release. I don’t think it’s a glaring issue, but one that’s worth being addressed eventually.

[unreal schooner]

Why can't you lose wood cutting skill if you were killed by a falling tree for instance? Or fishing/swimming if you went fishing and drowned? Or pickaxes if you started mining in bf and a troll came and killed you?

That's why i stand for 'active' skills. And i still haven't read a single sentence against this idea.

[amber wind]

Is a certain skill level required to progress through certain biomes? Conversely, if you don't have a high enough skill level, are you prevented from advancing through a biome? Like will you do zero damage to the enemies if you drop below a certain skill level? I could see in that case that losing skill levels would knock you down to the previous biome and then you'd have to spend time to grind up your skills before going back which I would see as a bit too punishing. But otherwise, I don't see the problem the way it currently is in game.

[north rock]

Nope. You can do anything you want at most points of the game.. Only a few techs are gatekept behind bosses.

[amber wind]

So then high skill levels are more like a "nice to have" and not a requirement?

[silk halo]

required? nope, recommended? defo, a rough guide of 10 skill points in main skills per biome advanced will see you have a much easier time than running through with very low skills, and at the point of Mistlands you really feel the loss if you die a few times in a session

[amber wind]

I do wish the experience loss and what you drop on death weren't tied together, but separate modifiers on each world. I wouldn't mind cranking the XP loss to max, but allow people to keep some of their stuff.

[silk halo]

several have expressed a similar view, myself included

[stone citrus]

Skills in its entirety needs to be looked at
Talked about it at length before server exploded

[silk halo]

mhm

[stone citrus]

So many things "wrong" with it

[unreal schooner]

They look rewarding first 5 mins of the game, but after that more of a pain actually

[versed sonnet]

It's a very... basic? system. Like it works, but it is flawed and could be vastly improved upon to be more natural, balanced, and rewarding.

I'm personally hoping it'll be updated to a more robust system at 1.0 release when all the content is added so it won't need to be tweaked with each new update

[silk halo]

less redundant skills and more useful ones like scrap swimming and riding and replace them with planting and building maybe

[unreal schooner]

100% + sailing

[silk halo]

the other biggest change i would make is to allow planting of at least a few crops in the mountains so folk are encouraged to build there more, and have lovely frosty gardens to look at, i wouldn't even mind if the plants weren't edible but just looked nice

[unreal schooner]

I want to be able to adapt gradually over time (when you've been living for many days there) to frost in Mountains or poison in Swamp or mist in Mistlands

Imagine going naked to Mountains and on your friend's silent question you respond just with 'Please'

[north rock]

@fallow orbit You'll be wanting darkwood then.

[unreal schooner]

I've been waiting for this comment for so long now

Darkwood ≠ simple wood

[fallow orbit]

my core wood beams bro

[unreal schooner]

Ok. It's only beams though but we'll pretend this is not the main issue with people wanting protect their wooden builds visually

[unkempt jackal]

How about producing tar from resin or coal when you enter the bronze age? This though would make tar pits obsolete.

[unreal schooner]

I don't think we need tar earlier or more sources to get tar. But we need floors and walls of that for sure

[unkempt jackal]

I agree, dark wood floors and walls would be nice to have

[unreal schooner]

The look doesn't bother me personally, it even has this cool vibe to it. But for those who mind spending resin on it would be a good choice i believe

[granite geyser]

@atomic salmon They will definitely not gonna release an ocean update before ashlands...

They haven't even finished the main biome they've been working on since last year as to add another one out of nowhere. And they haven't said anything about working on ocean alongside ashlands so it's very safe to assume it is not the case.

[amber wind]

I'm not sure how an ocean biome would work if you can't go underwater in the game.

[wintry bobcat]

they said after ashlands, did they not?

[amber wind]

So...badly? 🤣

Forgive me, I'm not trying to be negative about the suggestion, and I think it would be awesome if the devs did do something like that...even just to piss off all the people who keep pointing out how it isn't going to happen. 😜

Very true.

[rose swan]

I think there’s a lot of ways you can add to the ocean that doesn’t involve going underwater; new ships, interesting islands (think Zelda wind waker for inspiration!), new ocean enemies/drops. There’s alot of potential, just requires creativity 🙂

[amber wind]

Ah, I see. More a maritime type biome...at the surface, rather than what's below it.

[granite geyser]

Huh, I swear I read it as the update being before ashlands, idk why. My bad

[wintry bobcat]

it does say before in the context of the suggestion being mentioned before, shortly prior to mentioning ashlands so easy to mix up

[amber wind]

What is the point of the mini-boss quest? How does it fit in with Valheim's lore and mythology? How does it add to the gameplay and overall progression of the game? If you plant the seeds in the wrong biome are they wasted? Can you recover them and replant them in the right biome? Do you have to fight the miniboss again to get more? What is the reward after you do plant all the seeds in the correct biomes?

[brisk turtle]

This sounds like it would be a fun addition to Hildir's stuff after 1.0 comes out!

You could reword the suggestion to be more "core ideas", for example this is my interpretation of your suggestions core ideas-

• a miniboss (possibly in ashlands? possibly the next hildir quest?)
• the reward is a set of rare seeds
• each seed corresponds to a different early biome
• the new seeds are all for fruit trees or berry bushes or other food-plant

[near citrus]

Of course I explain: the goddess Iðunn according to hypotheses had rejuvenating apples, nuts and other fruits were also found in places of worship and other archaeological sites.
In the mythology of valheim fits from the point of view that odin needs his pantheon of gods can operate normally and the enemies have the seeds of trees, bushes and plants. Gameplay and progression: it is a mini-quest more of exploration like Hildir. If you plant the seeds in the wrong biome they will be lost and you will have to go back to get them (I have thought that instead of being in ashlands it could be in a shipwreck near ashlands, and there could be 4 or 5 ships that will take the seeds to ashlands by ship but they wreck) (the ship would also be protected by enemies).
The reward is 6 new cooking materials: Apple, walnut, rosemary, juniper or black elderberry, mint, blackberry. These would be used to create potions, food ointments, magic or whatever the developers wanted.
*I didn't say fern because I think it's the plant that appears in the development blogs: Pteridophyta.

[unreal schooner]

Ocean should be the most dangerous/ one of top-3 most dangerous biomes in the game.

It's a little bit odd that while exploring the world on early stages i prefer to sail through the ocean rather then stick to the plains with its supervillain the Deathsquito

Imo cabotage sailing should be the only available option till you get the longship at least. With smaller ships it should be much more dangerous to cross the ocean, only at your own risk with small survival chance

[karmic flax]

@ruby girder unpickable flowers on uncultivated ground would mean you cant even harvest seeds from the black forest until youve got the cultivator and then you'd need to bring it with you at all times

[ruby girder]

ah that's true

it was just an idea, but yeah I didn't think of that

[unreal schooner]

It can be like an option when you plant things (permanent/pickable)

[ruby girder]

pickable vs destructible more like

so u can still atk and destroy when needed, but interact won't pick

[atomic rain]

Fun fact about muddy scrap piles:

They have 5 health per part making all pickaxes equally good at mining them.

[karmic flax]

Fun fact about mining:
Mining has multihit where damage is split between parts hit, so higher level pickaxes are faster at mining even muddy scrap piles

[ruby girder]

give bombs to blow up piles, in mistlands

[karmic flax]

i tried it out once, and using a maxed iron pickaxe is about twice as fast at clearing a mud pils compared to an antler pickaxe

[atomic rain]

Ah nice, I thought about that. I want even more speed.

Though I am not sure, if I tried black metal pickaxe's muddy scrap mining speed

Maybe its already implemented.

[wintry bobcat]

What kills me about the antler pickaxes is just the durability. Still, better to have to repair than to have to mine copper for a bronze pick

[granite geyser]

You seem to be joking but this doesn't even sound bad.

Especially considering those are late game

[unreal schooner]

Just you know, those who downvote my lynx have no heart

No really, all the callous people here will be exposed

[karmic flax]

Well now I'm definitely gonna do it

[ruby girder]

Maybe

[karmic flax]

@jade robin this is already a thing

[finite vapor]

Make two for swamp and setup bench outside each crypt and it's pretty ok

[jade robin]

and the difficulty?

[karmic flax]

you can turn up mob difficulty as well

[jade robin]

the raid difficulty, not the world difficulty

[wintry bobcat]

I usually go for 3. I can't be bothered to walk back and forth

especially while my precious serpent stew and potentially other limited food is ticking down

[ruby girder]

#suggestions message
me see rock, me throw

[wanton atlas]

it's the same

there is no point in making raids monsters easier/harder when it's not the same as other enemies in the same world

[bitter lodge]

@open dagger There's a mod for that, FuelEternal

[unkempt raven]

"There's a mod for it" isn't really relevant for wanting something in the game that isn't completely non-fitting (until it's confirmed "nope" or the game is finished). There's also plenty of non-fuel consuming light sources, though.

But automation of various kinds is specifically mentioned as non-wanted by devs, so the "automatically refuel from chests" thing is probably a no-go to begin with.

[ruby girder]

Idk about automation but I atleast want torches that can hold more fuel

[open dagger]

i know but im making suggestions for the vanilla game, because i dont want to mod it

[unkempt raven]

A standard wood torch lasts for 11 hours, that's hardly "having to refuel it all the time", and that's the shortest lasting light suorce of the ones that require fuel.

[bitter lodge]

I doubt the devs would add infinite fuel to the vanilla game

[unkempt raven]

A sconce which is usually the next one you make lasts for 33 hours and 20 minutes.

[open dagger]

hmm right maybe i overexaggerated a bit in my formulation

[bitter lodge]

The only reason I suggested it is because it’s almost definite the devs won’t add it, leaving mods the only option

[open dagger]

it adds realism for sure now that i think about it, i think i just played too many games where the torches never run out

and if its too dark in my home i can always just wear the dverger circlet

[bitter lodge]

I like adding torches to my base roofs for an extra touch of flair. Infinite fuel in this regard is very handy.

[open dagger]

and theres also wisptorches wich never run out

[unkempt raven]

dvergr lanterns also seem to not need fuel, but those are mid/late game acquirements.

[open dagger]

so my suggestion was pretty much useless lol

[bitter lodge]

Pretty much

Potions are also a nice decorative light source

[unkempt raven]

For what it's worth it's a fairly common suggestion. :p

[open dagger]

hmm well at least my tameable neck suggestion got liked more

that was on the old server tho

[bitter lodge]

The amount of likes on a suggestion has no bearing on whether or not the devs will consider it though

[open dagger]

i know it just shows how much the community likes it wich helps me come up with more useful suggestions sometimes

[rose swan]

Personally, I find the upkeep of my base (farming, torch fueling, repairs) to be pretty immersive, and it makes me feel like my base has more of a purpose. Also, just a tip, better quality torches (standing iron vs standing wood) consumes fuel at a much slower rate.

[unreal schooner]

There are so many sporadic factors actually, so i can't even say that the amount of likes or dislikes really represent anything. It's more of a good timing and mb slightly forgotten, not very revolutionary suggestion, that will be well received there.

[rose swan]

I wouldn’t say the vote ratio has no bearing, but it’s also not like ‘get 1000 thumbs up and the feature gets added’ type of thing. It’s more of just a gauge of feedback 🙂

#suggestions message like this one has a great ratio (an even better one before the hack/wipe) but it’s not like it’s guaranteed to be added.

[unreal schooner]

For me personally the best result for a suggestion is smth like 4-5 likes, 4-5 dislikes and 2-3 recycles.

It's actually better than 10-0-0.

[jade robin]

maybe for those who build strongholds and fortresses? 😄 having 2 stars and such

[rose swan]

#suggestions message I believe with how the game engine works, it isn’t possible to create a pond in this way. Your best bet is to find one and incorporate it into your build 🙂

[unkempt raven]

There are no water physics, water is just a level, so any ponds that weren't at water level would have to be surrounded by/part of indestructible terrain.

[rose swan]

Thank you, for some reason I couldn’t find the words to explain that very well haha

[ruby girder]

I mean we kinda have tar pits, it could follow the same idea if they did decide to add

[unkempt raven]

Tar works differently than water would iirc. Water physics has been declared "not possible/certainly not gonna happen" by the devs many times.

[ruby girder]

Nah, I just mean the fluidity in general

We also have a hot tub which counts as water

[rose swan]

Like if a ‘pond’ had a sort of fragility of sorts to it like the tar pits do?

[ruby girder]

Fragility?

[rose swan]

Maybe that’s not the word I’m looking for 😅 like what if ponds for example would be destroyed if you mined around them too much. Isn’t that kinda how tar pits work?

I haven’t actually played around with tar pits all that much lol

Though with that being said, I don’t know how one could ‘create’ a pond. That’s tricky I imagine.

[ruby girder]

Oh yeah, I just mean if you could dig a pit and fill it with "water" which could basically just be retextured tar with slightly different parameters.

Dunno how hard that would be to implement tho honestly

Also since I mentioned the hot tub, we could also alternatively have something based on that idea instead

[rose swan]

So I’ve been tinkering around the idea of something like a nature staff/druid staff, a sort of late game tool similar to the hammer that allows for more ‘natural’ build structures; small trees, bushes, vines (like you see in meadows), bee nests, etc. would be cool if there was a water feature tab or something? Of course, this is extremely outlandish haha but it’s a nice thought 🙂

I like the idea of something purely cosmetic being a whole spectate tool and not lumping it in with say a cultivator, that way players aren’t too cluttered, especially between functional tools and decorative tools.

[ruby girder]

@vague flint use the cultivator's grass mode on beach, it'll bring back sand

afaik

[vague flint]

I didn't know that, thanks

[unkempt raven]

@open dagger dragon eggs are infinitely available since they respawn. The totems can drop from brutes, but those don't respawn except during raids (which are disabled by killing Yagluth) once you've killed all of them unless I remember wrong.

[ruby girder]

^

[unkempt raven]

Withered bones are also technically limited but there's probably enough in a world to summon Bonemass 1000 times. :p

[granite geyser]

@rotund panther it isn't

[open dagger]

so im dumb again yeeyyy

[ruby girder]

it's easy to miss dragon egg respawn. they take like 8 hrs iirc

[open dagger]

i never noticed them respawning

[ruby girder]

8 hrs of irl time, i wouldnt either lol

[open dagger]

i wouldn't even want to spend that much time in the mountains biome

[ruby girder]

you don't have to, they're basically like berry bushes

[open dagger]

i would get swarmed by stone golems in that time

[granite geyser]

Hildir fuling raid

[ruby girder]

as long as someone is logged in anywhere in the world, the time will tick

[near citrus]

Exactly, invoking yagluth can be a ''problem'' but well, there is no improvement in the bosses once you kill them (I mean, for example, every time you kill him, the fight against him is more difficult) so no. It is very important that the totems run out or are finite

[open dagger]

what if you want to build a house out of his trophies

thats ridiculus tbh

[ruby girder]

i don't understand your logic 🤔

[unkempt raven]

Forgot about that, it's too new. :p

"The boss fights don't change so it's very important to be unable to fight the boss as many times as you want" is very odd logic indeed.

[near citrus]

I mean, if what a player wants is to invoke yagh many times, there will be a moment when it stops being able to, because the drop of a totem by the bersherkers is very low and on the map there are limited totems and limited camps with bersherkers . Furthermore, fighting the bosses more than once is not necessary and does not (in my opinion) make sense because if there were a system in which the fight against the bosses becomes more difficult that would be more pleasant.

[ruby girder]

i mean it's also inconsistent considering all other bosses

if someone wants to, let him

[unkempt raven]

There's no point game progress wise to fight the bosses more than once, but i don't see any good reason to prevent it either.

[ruby girder]

i mean i killed elder 80+ times lol

swamp keys make great decorations :p

[near citrus]

I once wrote a suggestion in that sense, every time you kill an Eikthyr deer it becomes more powerful x more damage and life for every 25 deer. Furthermore, every time you kill Eikthyr it also becomes more powerful. That makes going to kill him more and more difficult and can make people want to snort a boss as much as possible to fight the most powerful enemy they can form.

[ruby girder]

why though

[near citrus]

That makes sense, because of the key, but killing bonemass.. for example 0 value.

[unkempt raven]

That makes no sense in the setting. Once the forsaken is defeated it is defeated.

[ruby girder]

wishbones would make great decor if only we could mount them xd sad we can't

yagluth is eh i do wanna beat him thrice coz i want 9 fountains

totems are hard to get tho

[near citrus]

sure man, I understand your point of view, now I contrast it with, killing Brenna and then having a raid bring Brenna back from death, or having a raid bring back a Fuling Bersherker from death who in theory is an enemy with a name, not a generic one. In the lands of Odin to die is to follow the path. maybe...

[unkempt raven]

Everything ought to be placable on item stands.

[ruby girder]

yeah

it's makes no sense that we can't

barley flour bag would be great in kitchen for example but nope

[unkempt raven]

Well, I expect every item would need an "item stand model" so making those for all items would take time.

[ruby girder]

Aren't just attached models rather than new ones? I wouldn't know tbh but could be that ig

[unkempt raven]

I'm not sure, but I would expect the models on the item stands are slightly different from the "thrown on the ground" ones.

[ruby girder]

[unkempt raven]

I don't know how that kind of stuff works, I just think that would make sense. :p

[near citrus]

I suppose it will be the same model, but they will have to see if it looks good when mounted on the item stand. and they will polish the appearance so that it remains smooth.

[unkempt raven]

Yeah, something like that.

Could also be there's more "invisible" coding that goes into it.

I hope Smiffe has his "why there won't be any "anti-cheat" post saved so he can repost and repin it.

[amber wind]

Isn't there a setting that makes it so that the world difficulty increases for each character individually? For instance, if a new player spawns into a world brand-spanking new they won't see the higher tier raids until they kill Eikthyr or associated bosses? In that case, don't you NEED to have the bosses be able to be summoned over and over, so new players to the world can catch up?

[unkempt raven]

Only for raids - the player based raids option. Night spawns stay the same for everyone.

[near citrus]

I also made a suggestion that I ended up deleting. In it I only suggested that more defensive skills be implemented in the enemies, that would make some enemies "more tanky", for example by making some skills mitigate the damage that comes in for x seconds. or that they heal a percentage of life (for example, when ticks are mounted, they heal a percentage of damage done), that other enemies, for example, put shields on themselves. or that the greydwarf schaman heals more than 20 if it has more stars because it heals the same with 0 and 2 stars.

[unkempt raven]

And you don't need to kill the boss, I think, it's enough to do something that would require it being killed, like using the boss power or holding the boss drop (though I'm not 100% certain about that).

[amber wind]

I will never say no to more sophisticated combat.

[unkempt raven]

I dunno, combat isn't the main thing in Valheim as much as preparing for combat is. I wouldn't mind slightly more complicated combat but I don't mind it being simple and straigthforward either.

[near citrus]

In addition to this: that enemies have abilities to give their allies more statistics, such as attack speed. feint possibility double hit. etc

[amber wind]

Only if it is done right...don't make it more sponge healthbars, actually add strategy and sophistication.

[near citrus]

Of course, the first time I play I don't care, but when I've had 1500 hours I can't, because if there were classes or attributes I could do different types of runs. This is something that would only help people spend more hours in the game.

[unkempt raven]

Well, the base game should be balanced based for people playing for the first time, not people playing for the fiftieth time.

[amber wind]

Can you get staggered by enemies? Like when you parry their blows? Can the enemies parry you at some point?

[near citrus]

I understand that each person plays in a different way, my friends and I are very hard-trying, we really like to sploit and even put obstacles on ourselves (like not being able to use potions or kill only with punches) because in the end the games become easy (especially if they nerf everything, mosquitoes, snakes, gjllal xd

[granite geyser]

@echo kite anti cheat is a "no" from devs.

If you want people to not cheat in your game then only allow people that don't cheat in your game. Only the host is responsible for the people the being to their game.

Also, cheats (which I assume are devcommand) can only be done by the host, not other players

[amber wind]

It would make sense to me, that as you progress through the game, the enemies become more and more sophisticated with their attack strategies. So that when a new player starts, they are first attacked by super easy mechanics and then later they are introduced to more sophisticated attacks as the game progresses. That way you hit a balance for the new player vs the veteran. Then by the end game the enemies can do pretty much everything the player can do, plus some specialized skills that you people need to learn how to get around (like using the right equipment or potions, etc).

[near citrus]

I think it refers to the fact that you cannot enter a world with things in your inventory brought from another world.

[granite geyser]

Same thing

[unkempt raven]

Being able to bring any character to any world is an intended feature. Could almost be called an integral feature.

[amber wind]

YES! It would be awesome to have something where when they enter the world, everything they had on their character is removed (maybe held in stasis till they log out again) and then everything in their inventory while playing is removed at logout (just drops to the ground around them) or held in stasis till the next time they login again.

I think this would be an awesome world modifier to add.

[granite geyser]

I really miss the pinned msgs

[unkempt raven]

I hope Smiffe had that one saved, though it was probably written on the spot.

[granite geyser]

@azure monolith pls

[near citrus]

It doesn't seem bad to me, it falls on the responsibility of the party members. My friends and I always play and we don't usually use that kind of stuff.

[granite geyser]

Yes, it was another separate msg. Which was also longer

[echo kite]

This server thing is far from "click and play" philosophy. I meant the sort of game you can create in the Valheim panel — not the one where you outsource server. I don't get it that you have to pay to host the game you already bought to have a cheats-free game. Anyways, a great game

[unkempt raven]

"The host" is whoever is hosting the game, most commonly that is a person sharing their world with someone else by using the "start server" function.

[amber wind]

I guess I've been doing it wrong, because I haven't been paying...

[barren elk]

#suggestions message this would be great and not hard to do because valheim already has tar pit physics for water thats not on sea level

[unkempt raven]

"not hard to do" also known as "confirmed repeatedly as not happening by the devs because it wouldn't be possible without a complete rework of how water and terrain works." :p

[barren elk]

Oh ok :p

[sterile frost]

use the same physics as tar pits only with the tar texture replaced by water texture = profit

[amber wind]

Sadly it's up to the Devs to decide...but then there is also the modders!!!!

[granite geyser]

@edgy solar it has been suggested many times.

It won't happen until v1.0 and it's still an "if"

[edgy solar]

We can but hope 🤞
I play on GeforceNow so cant even manually load them in, just watch em on youtube in awe is all 😅

[amber wind]

Does IronGate need to enact some kind of interface for Mod.io to be an option? It always seemed to me like Modders make it work regardless.

[wanton atlas]

then those players can just crank up the difficulty if they plan to play fortress-time constantly 😄

[wanton atlas]

I don't 😦

[bitter lodge]

Smiffe hated my suggestion 🫢

[wanton atlas]

chests do say if they are empty 😄

[bitter lodge]

They do?

[bitter lodge]

Is that just for the reinforced chest or all storage boxes?

[wanton atlas]

all 4 of them

[bitter lodge]

Is that a new thing or have I just neglected to notice it after all this time?

[wanton atlas]

😅

can't remember when we added this feature. but it's not super-rescent I think 🤔

[bitter lodge]

Oh fu- 🫢

[wanton atlas]

https://tenor.com/view/patpat-pat-comfort-pat-on-the-head-there-there-gif-10534102

[unkempt raven]

Pretty sure they've always said that, can't remember them ever not doing it at least.

[brisk turtle]

Hey Smiffe can you ruin my dreams and tell me why this suggestion wouldn't be possible without rewriting the game? #suggestions message

[wanton atlas]

have I downovted it (Yet) ? 🤔

ah now I have

I had the same idea before

I even advocated for this to happen when there is no monsters around since it would save a metric ton of instances

but..

[brisk turtle]

I figure it would be technically challenging in some way?

[wanton atlas]

what if it breaks

[wanton atlas]

oh infinitly

and.. what if it breaks

[brisk turtle]

What if the system breaks? Or what if the buidable object breaks?

[wanton atlas]

like in singleplayer it would work 100% of the times

but not in multiplayer

it could wierd the entire building out in so many ways 😄

[brisk turtle]

That's why my idea was to only do it on objects that haven't moved in like 2 weeks of in-game time, hopefully would alleviate issues. And you could run the check only when you save the file or something 🤔

[brisk turtle]

I want to see my castle ragdoll down the mountain as a single unit

[wanton atlas]

yes 😄

or just the entire building instantly explode due to your friends internet connection failed to detatch the build pieces

[brisk turtle]

But you use essentially this exact same system with the big boulders and copper nodes right?

[wanton atlas]

and then everything would die in a nice explosion of FPS lag

hurr hurr

[brisk turtle]

Valheim + Garry's Mod

[wanton atlas]

imagine a castle of 15000 instances

turning into 30000+ objects

minimum

[brisk turtle]

Yeah I was suggesting this because I have some stone buildings in my main base and my instance count is getting too close to 15k 😭

[wanton atlas]

it's all down to hardware

[brisk turtle]

So... it's like a valheim building equivilent of a rarbomb? 🤣 That's something I hadn't considered, I guess

[wanton atlas]

just spawn a level 50 troll and kill it

instant fun

not sure where the actual breakpoint for just game crashing from overlow of objects

probably individual per computer

but even I got one with my 7700X 😦

[brisk turtle]

😭

That makes a lot of sene though, thank you for the info 🙂

[wanton atlas]

yeah. 😦

it would work great if it wasn't for multiplayer 😄

[brisk turtle]

What if you also made it so that any combined items can't be broken apart except by the host? 🤔

"Steve! We need to move the tower! Come press the button plz"

[strong gazelle]

to add to @granite geyser idea from here #suggestions message
100% mod.io is amazing way to go. Their support and dedication is fantastic!
My company work with them on delivering mods to PC and consoles, and we are nothing but happy about how this is going - a vouch for sure 🙂

[silk halo]

do it as a solo only world modifier

[granite geyser]

More advantages for solo over MP then

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-perfectlybalanced-gif-18301221

[wanton atlas]

I wish 😄

[silk halo]

advantage building mode, sounds like a solo feature anyway xD

[unkempt raven]

@split wing you can make mobs passive in the world settings.

[split wing]

I think that might kill the game for the rest of us. Making buildings invincible for my one friend is all I would want. Everything else I would want unchanged. And I personally don’t care for the setting I just want more friends to play with me.

[unkempt raven]

No way to do that.

[short wing]

With some clever building and spawn proofing you can make a building very secure.
Dig a moat or raise earthen walls, that will certainly help a whole lot to start with, then bury workbenches each work bench has a radius that mobs can't spawn in, so do that and it gets even more secure.

[split wing]

I’m aware, but they personally don’t like to do that. They just simply don’t want their buildings to be damageable. I’m also aware it would make the game extremely easy. But honestly who cares.

[granite geyser]

Then disable raids completely

[karmic flax]

Have them dig a moat, that way most enemies cant damage their base

[short wing]

If you want that you'll need to look at mods then, I don't see this happening.

[split wing]

No worries I figured I’d make the suggestion and see what people say. At the end of the day it don’t effect me. Just want my friend to play.

I personally raise walls.

[granite geyser]

Again, disable raids

[split wing]

That would conflict with the rest of the group as everyone else wants them on.

We have 5 people in our server.

[granite geyser]

Even if you made structures indestructible, having raids on would be pointless bc there wouldn't be any danger to them at all as their main issue is that they destroy your stuff.

If the main problem is not being afraid of getting the base destroyed, then disabling raids is pretty essentially the same thing

[split wing]

To me they wouldn’t be pointless cause usually we need the resources that the enemies who attack drop. So to me it’s the enemies coming to me with free resources. Example boars and neck. I always need boar meat. And having 10+ attack you is nice. Same with draugr for entrails

[unreal schooner]

I don't understand the issue completely. You have 1 friend who doesn't want his potential build to be destroyed by mobs. The other 4 of you are ok with mobs attacking the base. Then just promise him to protect whatever he will build and keep that promise, no?

[split wing]

Oh trust me we have given them multiple paths, refuses all of them. Just doesn’t want to get on and half his house is destroyed cause no one noticed a troll attacking his stuff. Some people though just want to find a nice view in a nice area and build. But at the same time they want all the other aspects to be there. But I understand invincible building’s would essentially break the game.

Didn’t mean to open a can of worms here, just wanted to see what would be said.

They come from Minecraft where the only mob that can destroy your stuff is a creeper.

[pure patio]

Best solution would be for them to dig a moat or raise some earth walls, you can make both of them pretty nicely integrated if you do it right

[split wing]

I’ve given that option but aesthetically they don’t like it. But they love the roofs and just general design of the buildings. And also the exploration the game offers.

[silk halo]

how would the game determine which buildings were invincible?

pretty impossible in multiplayer

[pure patio]

Add a ward? That'll start making lots of noise when anything attacks a building

[silk halo]

they'd have to modify wards ig, but we've asked for that countless times

[pure patio]

No? Wards will make noise if anything is attacked, even if they don't actually protect anything.

[silk halo]

a noise isn't going to prevent troll damage

however a ward with a 0 damage function, would be a perfect solution, other players could even tell you are using it for that if the bubble made a different noise and had a different colour flash when attacked

[pure patio]

But it won't destroy your base without you noticing it. The other thing to do is to add spikes and walls, make it a proper fortress. But Valheim in general isn't designed to have a perfectly safe area without turning off raids or enemy aggression or other world tweaks.

[silk halo]

you can already do all that in other ways

[pure patio]

I think you're not understanding. I'm not suggesting that there be anything to actually change the way the game works. I'm saying that the game is certainly not going to have a way to make buildings invulnerable in normal gameplay, and I'm providing alternatives people might not have thought of to mitigate the concerns.

[silk halo]

as soon as modifiers came in any argument about how the game is "supposed to be played" went out of the window

may as well give folk the convenience they ask for (within reason ofc)

[dawn mauve]

How can "nobody notice" since raids only happen in areas where players are currently playing. If no one is at your friend's base, there won't be trolls attacking it.

[split wing]

We’ve had it where a troll somehow survives a raid and wonders off. But it’s really not that big of a deal. I was just making a suggestion. But someone said adding a way for wards to make your buildings invincible would be a good solution.

Draugr and skeletons too. Mainly draugr and the goblins. When they raid there’s always left over spread out.

[granite geyser]

There wouldn't be a way for a raid troll to survive if the raids wouldn't be enabled at all.

The only way for a mob to appear out of nowhere and attack the base is if it was lured by another player/mob

[karmic flax]

Heres what your friend can do. Place workbenches or other spawnproofers within 20 meters of each other in a massive area, then dig a moat outside that. Nothing will spawn, only bats during bat raid if there's water

And wouldnt see the moat

[unreal schooner]

I mean there are so many options for you to adjust the game the way one wants it, but still there would be those, who desperately need even more suboptions, otherwise it won't work for them.

[unreal schooner]

He doesn't want to dig anything, it's simple as that lol

[karmic flax]

I thought it was about the aesthetic, so if its far enough away you wouldnt see it lol

[silk halo]

mp problems

soloist:

[unreal schooner]

He just wants to have invincible buildings. It reminds me of that 'i don't wanna fight in streets, i wanna fight in ufc' kid

[wanton edge]

Wardislove mod - you can configure it to be an invincible bubble that enemies can't pass through. He can use it to keep his builds safe

[hard yoke]

can someobody explain me why my idea of adding more optional modification sliders and underworld caves was downvoted AF?

[pure patio]

Devs don't want an underworld as part of the game, we're already in the afterlife in Valheim as it is. As for the sliders, some of them exist (event/raid sliders), and others just aren't in the ethos of the game and are more suited to mods if you want them.

[unkempt raven]

There won't be any new biomes anyway, all the biomes are in the game already.

I don't think it's a good idea to add sliders for every conceivable thing either, a few different settings is good but it quickly just becomes a clutter of confusing stuff. It's more mod territory than something that I think would be good for the base game.

[karmic flax]

Also its a list

Instead of individual suggestions

[silk mountain]

Well his full "one" suggestion was to make valheim more like don't starve, but had two very different aspects to it

I'm kind of really not in favor of turning an already good game into another one. If you want to play a game like DS then play DS

[sterile frost]

I know my suggestion has been brought up before. That's why I came up with the process to make it unique lol

[rose swan]

I like it! I’ve thought about pitching the idea of using bone fragments and stone to make some sort of stone brick or something.

[sterile frost]

There are just so many bones and with the ashlands coming, no doubt there'll be plenty more to collect 😕

[rose swan]

Exactly, I’m personally optimistic that we’ll see more used for them 🙂

[brisk hollow]

Bone fertilizer lets you cultivate biome-free land that can grow any food.

@sterile frost if you like it add it to yours

[sterile frost]

Sure

[wintry bobcat]

I don't like that idea

I think it's reasonable that you have to brave a new biome and set up camp there to grow some delicious veggies. If you can just go grow your mistlands veggies in meadows it becomes boring and deters exploring / base building in other biomes

[brisk hollow]

How about specific biome fertilizer made from bonemeal and that biome's trophies?

Once I've gotten enough fuling heads I should be able to give some barley the blood-soaked soil it desires.

[sterile frost]

Valid point. let's stick withmaking plants grow faster. Or trees. I hate waiting for them to grow just for decoration

[wintry bobcat]

I still don't like it. I think it's fair to make plants grow faster with bonemeal but I love the idea of having to setup a plains or mistlands outpost/base to grow stuff. I personally wish there was more to encourage base building in biomes

[pure patio]

Just sleep and plants grow faster 😛

[brisk hollow]

Eh I'm always for expensive options to centralize.

[karmic flax]

I wish we had some way to make stockpiles of items we no longer use useful, other than obliterator

[brisk hollow]

Stack them on a longship, set them alight, and release them to the sea.

[rose swan]

I half agree, but I fully embrace the idea of some biomes being super desolate, like the swamp (go away pita, stop building in the swamp! ||jk||)

[wintry bobcat]

what if you have insomnia?

[pure patio]

Go collect some berries or mushrooms 😉

[rose swan]

I’m just spitballing here, but what if bones could be used in some sort of berserker mead? Extra damage, lower defense or something?

[sterile frost]

How about quests by Hildir (or Haldor?) that demand you to gather and donate large quantities of specific items?

[brisk hollow]

Insomnia? You mean you just volunteered to attend the fountains? Why thank you!

[karmic flax]

Theyre called traders, not vendors, dammit!

[sterile frost]

I believe I suggested that in the old channel. Not gonna do that again, apparently people really hate quests

[pure patio]

@burnt field Mods aren't officially supported on PC, and will definitely not be supported on consoles until full release

[granite geyser]

And the game is single player first and MP second, with MP being balanced around coop so PvP mustn't even be in the list of things taken into account

[burnt field]

Ok coole thanks for the context bud

[rose swan]

#suggestions message @sly reef this is a really fun suggestion that is similar to yours, I think some sort of goat-like creature would be really neat 👍

[unreal schooner]

I mean I will still keep using pine trees as the largest beams in the game for building way too higher than needed, nothing can stop me, even the branches on top. It was just a small QoL suggestion

[unreal schooner]

@sly reef you mean like stationary ones, already existing before you?

[full prairie]

Did the emojis on my suggestion get reset or something?

#suggestions message

Last I checked it had like 24 thumbs up or something

[unreal schooner]

Why? It has 29 now.

[full prairie]

Oh, I was seeing it as only 1

Sorry, ignore me

[karmic flax]

cache is weird sometimes

[unreal schooner]

With this request I can't now. If i ignore, it would mean i didn't ignore and vice versa

[karmic flax]

@tawny cipher while we dont have plates and silverware yet, you can put knives and round shields/bucklers on item stands

[ruby girder]

#suggestions message
@unreal schooner
I would love the 64 degree roofs for slides ngl!
I currently have a 64 degree slide that I am building for metal in my factory but it's so tedious to make and uses so many instances

[wanton atlas]

@tawny cipher the reason why we can't have bigger caves than the ice caves is chunk sizes.
64x64x64 meter is maximum size we can use for a dungeon

[sly reef]

Yeah, then i thought like, why old civilisations don't using portals

[granite geyser]

@wanton atlas could you recreate the "no" list/post?

[wanton atlas]

I shall in due time 😅

people don't read pins tho so...

but I know it's good for arguments

[short wing]

Maybe a new one and with big bold on the top "Anything that gives multiplayer an advantage over single player is a no go!"

[granite geyser]

https://tenor.com/view/saruman-lord-of-the-rings-lotr-christoper-lee-leave-it-to-me-gif-16325052

It'd also be a good opportunity to re-structure it, and include ones that weren't before

[unkempt raven]

People don't read pins but it's nice to have a reference for "devs have said no." :>

[short wing]

@wanton atlas Don't forget to add in no flying mounts, when you recreate the "no" list.

[wanton atlas]

I know 😄

[granite geyser]

With a big, fat, bolded "no"

[open dagger]

weakpoints are a good idea

[lone prairie]

queen surely need to have one on her backside, like soldier seeker

[unreal sandal]

o_0 soldier seekers have a weakside?

[granite geyser]

I haven't fought her so idk.

Elder could have it in his chest. Moder in her head and if we go for a stretch, her wings. If we go for a further stretch, make the wings extra weak to fire

Eikthyr and yag could be the only ones without weak points

[granite geyser]

Their back side

[unreal sandal]

as much as i hate the abdomen of bugs guess i have to do it

[short wing]

They don't like it from the backside. Sneak close and stab with daggers for lots of damage, or plink arrows in there.
Troll heads are vulnerable but I find that a bit weird since there isn't a whole lot going on in there.
Gjall's underbellies are vulnerable.

[unreal sandal]

gotta love them just staring at the ocean scratching their hole and tasting a bit of it lol

[unreal schooner]

I think they are great philosophers

[short wing]

To pee or not to pee, might be the extent of their philosophical thoughts.

[unreal schooner]

Should i pee now or at night or both.. ah i already did it in my cave.. what a wonderful sunset

[unreal schooner]

Why don't we need sailing skill? Though it should be levelled up by sailing at full speed imo

[rose swan]

In my opinion, because of the state of skills right now, I think having a sailing skill would not be beneficial. I think a lot of people would be especially upset after a chain of deaths only to find that sailing is slower and more difficult.

[karmic flax]

I think a limit to skills is good

[lone prairie]

Imo we don't need skills at all. It would be nice if we just can do anything at ~40-50 current skill efficiency always and all skill progressions was removed altogether

[rose swan]

I think skills just need a bit of rework, perhaps later down the line since it’s not a major issue.

[barren elk]

Why was my suggestion removed

And im not talking about odin taking it down because it doesnt have a light bulb im talking about the fact that it was there few hours ago and now it isnt

[rose swan]

What suggestion was it?

[barren elk]

#suggestions message replied to this that it would be better if it was a paddling skill that would increase your paddling speed

[vagrant quarry]

In my mind level 0 sailing speed was actual speed. So only making you faster than now.
A way to reward sailor gaming. And to define a role when traveling in a group. I sometimes got frustrated when I did lot of exploration by boat gaining nothing while my friend doing running exploration gained run xp and was then able to run faster.

[rose swan]

That’s what I imagined. I think it has potential!

Perhaps in a potential ocean update, we’ll see a sailing skill?

[unkempt jackal]

IMO skills make perfect sense - the more you use a weapon the more proficient you become with that weapon. Regarding the problem with losing too much skills - well, just don't die There is a skill issue but I think it's player's skill issue 😛

[lone prairie]

No, it’s just that the skill development system itself is poorly implemented. When the best way to level up is to hit as often and as weakly as possible in order to land as many hits as possible, this is stupid.

[unkempt jackal]

@lone prairie I agree that the way skills are raised could be better.

[unreal schooner]

That is the main issue imo. That it is not ideal. But it doesn't mean we don't need skills. We need even more of them, and sailing is for sure one of them. We need skills to be more thought through, mord fine tuned, more logical as well. So it looks like a complete overhaul for me. But skills potentially can add a lot to the game, and in its specific niche.

Hopefully after all the biomes are finished devs won't ignore them

[pure patio]

It makes me sad how nobody else wants Moder to have nighttime spawns 😛

As for skills, search the history. The gist of it is that you aren't intended to have level 100 skills, Mistlands was tested at around level 40 skills. They are not there for you to max out, they are there as a minor reward for not dying.

[karmic flax]

I want stuff, just not bats. Or drakes.

But that's me liking a safe base

[pure patio]

I considered suggesting drakes, but I figured they would be too op and even more annoying, bats are easily enough dealt with

[karmic flax]

Bats are worse though since they can spawn in water

[unreal schooner]

Bats would be nice. And drakes also. I don't know why people downvote

[karmic flax]

Have wolves or cultists, etc spawn at night imo

[pure patio]

The problem is they would just annihilate all other mobs except Fulings and Seekers, they move fast and far.

[karmic flax]

Ive raised that issue before though. No permanent raids and no night spawns, the only boss to give us neither

Even eikthyr gives greydwarves

[unreal schooner]

It's not about max level of a skill, it's about the skill itself. If you spend hours on sailing you expect to be at least better at it than a newcomer

[unkempt raven]

Following the increasing difficulty black forest mobs in meadows after boss kills pattern, Moder kill could make trolls spawn in meadows at night.

[pure patio]

lol. Or even draugr might be ok. They can be found in the Mountains, but they're not really thematic, and from the wrong biome.

[unkempt raven]

Draugar already spawn there in fog.

[karmic flax]

From elder yea

[pure patio]

Wait, so draugr spawn at night if it's foggy weather? Huh. Guess I never noticed.

[karmic flax]

Yea

If youve killed elder

[sly reef]

I think they want to make game harder, and mists would be like middle of the game

[wet drift]

Problem with a training system is...well either it's pointless, in which case sure, add some emotes, or you gain something, and that's bad because it's so AFKable

[rose swan]

@pure patio would wolves spawning in the meadows and Black Forest be a little much after Moder?

Perhaps at night, of course. The only issue is, I guess there’s already a raid associated with wolves.

[pure patio]

Yeah, exactly. They also move really fast and will just destroy all the greydwarves, brutes and shamans in general in my experience. Maybe a singular wolf would be ok, or two, but I'm still a little cautious about the balance until after you beat Yagluth

[rose swan]

Ah, that’s a good point. A single wolf can cause a lot of damage lol

[sly reef]

Imagine u should play piano mode like in Osu to gain some points of strength, or if u get a lot of misses u miss some points

[wet drift]

Sure, but that's just not the vibe of the game.

[karmic flax]

@rose swan you can create sort of haybales by haphazardly putting together the two types of corner thatch roof

[rose swan]

Thanks for the tip! This was an old suggestion I had posted a long time ago, figured I’d throw it back in the hat haha

[eternal storm]

My issue with skill is how inconsistent they are. A few get better just because you're doing something you can't even choose not to do (running in mountains, harvesting wood or ore), while others require to train on purpose because the game has little to no use for them (fists) or are just too risky to train for how little they're used (swimming). A bunch of them make you specialize (melee skills), others are all-encompassing (blocking). A few can't be even trained until late game. I wish they reworked the system as a whole at least to get it on par with the rest of the gameplay, which is airtight.

[wet drift]

Does it matter that you don't level fists if you never use them?

[wintry bobcat]

Respectfully I disagree. I think the game does a good job of letting you level skills that you use and don’t level the ones you don’t. Sounds like you want 100% completion on all skills automatically but they’re not there for completion

Swim is kinda rough tho

[wet drift]

Tbh, best way to have this kind of skills work is either
A) using similar skills partially levels eachother.
B) Attributes

[eternal storm]

I don't care about being good at all melee skills, or other forms of completionism. I just wish the game had a better system in place, because as a (tabletop) game designer it's just not on par of the rest of the game quality-wise. Nothing over-complicated, just more polished.

[wet drift]

Still doesn't fix all magic practically unlocked at endgame.

[wintry bobcat]

so your problem is that it is not consistent because melee skills are split up while things like blocking aren't, and you don't get magic until endgame?

[granite geyser]

Why does it matter that some skills are not leveled up?

[wintry bobcat]

I'm not saying the skill system is perfect, although it is fine for me. I'll be honest though I don't understand the concerns here

[eternal storm]

For the same reason some weapons are not used because they suck compared to available alternatives: lack of polish for a game that shows much better design elsewhere.

[wet drift]

I guess potentially locking you into a singular weapon class even when realistically, there should be some carry over.
(Classic morrowind blade lenght problem, but at least morrowind had attributes)

[wintry bobcat]

I've actually been experimenting a lot with weapons lately and I think they all show some real merit. Sure some weapons are always gonna be a tad better generally, and some are all but required for certain situations, but I think you can easily go through the game levelling up and maining any weapon

What weapons suck?

[karmic flax]

Bonemass is pretty much the only time youre locked into a single type

[wet drift]

But you still have to main.

[wintry bobcat]

I'd agree

[eternal storm]

I won't answer to that because it would derail the conversation, but we all know everybody love the atgeir and only a few ever bother using knives.

[wintry bobcat]

You don't have to but I typically do yeah. Is that a problem?

[wintry bobcat]

I love knives. They're underrated but not bc they're bad just bc they're not so flashy and easy to use

I'll admit though Atgeir and Bow are absolutely brokenly good

I think the game does an okay job of forcing you into experimenting with weapons (with enemy resistances/weaknesses and gaps in weapons in certain ages) without locking you to weapons you don't like the whole game

[wet drift]

As I've stated, I think there should be some carry over. It's weird that you can be 100 at swinging around one thing and 0 at swinging around another.

[granite geyser]

You are not locked to a single weapon type, you use most of them in any playthrough unless you're doing a challenge, or will you try fighting drakes with melee weapons?

You use a lot of some weapons, they get higher levels, you use others less frequently, you get low levels. Simple.

On the long term, it doesn't even matter that those skill levels are low bc you don't use them so frequently in the first place except in specific situations.

And either way, you use the weapons you like the most and level them up, it's completely your choice. This all seems like the whole topic is going for "you should be forced to use ALL weapons and level them up so they're all relevant".

[eternal storm]

I knew I shouldn't have mentioned weapons, silly me.

[wintry bobcat]

I wouldn't mind swinging a mace giving you 100% mace skill gain and like 10% skill gain on other melee weapons. Could be cool.

Don't think it's necessary tho

[karmic flax]

Never used atgeir

[wet drift]

I guess it isn't but that's mostly because skills aren't that big a modifyer.

The system'd br truly broken if it was

[eternal storm]

I'd disagree. I have multiple characters for testing purpose and for fun, with different builds in mind. The ones based on automatically growing skills like woodcutting are noticeably bettter at that compared to other characters. Gear is substantially more gamechanging than skills, but they still have an impact. And if they had not, that would be one more reason to revisit they system, to be frank.

[wet drift]

I guess it depends on perspective. As I mentioned earlier, I come from games like Morrowind. If you don't have the skill, you won't land a hit on anything in that game.

[wintry bobcat]

Thing about skills is that the difference between 0 and 100 skill is a monumental difference

But, if you're a person who dies a lot you're not gonna have 0 skill you're gonna have like 30-40, and if you don't die at all you won't have 100 you'll have like 70. Which makes the difference less impactful (this is just an example, obvs depends on the person and part of the game you're on)

[granite geyser]

No one said they didn't have any impact on gameplay...

"Skills aren't *that big of a changer". As in they're nice-to-have, but not the absolutely most essential mechanic that people keep thinking they are where if you don't waste half of your entire playtime grinding them then you'll just automatically lose the game

[eternal storm]

That's a very different game. In Valheim you level up by getting better materials, which require you to play the whole game organically (explore, find structures, beat enemies, work the environment, etc.). Skills are not really designed around that concept, and that doesn't help with their inconsistencies.

[granite geyser]

You can perfectly play the game at skills lvl 10 as you would at skills lvl +40, even in late game

[eternal storm]

I'm not saying they're game-breaking. I'm saying the system is inconsistent, both internally and compared to the rest of the game. It does matter in a game so well designed, that all its parts are well designed.

[wet drift]

Ofc it's different, thats part of the point. I wrote that as an explenation of what I mean by the skills not being impactfull, which in turn explains why the game isn't ruined by its system, the same way such a system would have ruined...well, something like Morrowind.

[eternal storm]

Ok, I'll make an example: would you like it if instead of just Block, we had Shield, Parry, Dodge and Toughness (leveled for surviving unblocked damage)?

[unreal schooner]

I really wish discussions like this one would more frequently end up in some sort of joint suggestions

[wet drift]

Not only would I not care. I don't know which you want me to prefere.

Latter seems cool...ig

[eternal storm]

Melee skills reward choice of weapons: you get better at the ones you like to use. The above skill would reward choice of defence modes. The same could be said for movement options, with a few reworks.

[wet drift]

Am I insane for liking the idea of more defense but also less offense at the same time?

[eternal storm]

Care to elaborate?

[wintry bobcat]

Movement is already split up between 3 skills

[wet drift]

I like the idea about more varied defense skills because they feel like and are distinctly different actions. Whereas I would gladly slap together some of the weapon classes, because gameplaywise they are similar.

[wet drift]

However, some waepons might have a smaller skill modifyer. That edge alignment isn't doing you as much with a head as with a blade.

[eternal storm]

The issue there is running being way more useful of the others, so good it makes jumping take the backseat; sneak being too erratic to use on a regular basis; and swimming being too risky to train and you rarely even use it. Not to mention walking having no use outside making videos. Skill sdon't work in that department because of that.

[eternal storm]

Totally agree on that. In fact the 4 defense skills I mentioned are 4 different ways to play the game, it deserves more.

[wintry bobcat]

why do you need to lvl sneak if you don't use sneak? I feel like the discussion keeps coming back to this. Why do you need to be an expert at something you never do?

[unreal schooner]

How would you break movement into skills more efficiently?

[eternal storm]

It matter if you don't do it because it's not worth it. I have a character built on running away, and one built on sneaking. The first is way more efficient than the latter, in fact they're now both good at running. It's a pity to have a whole mechanics underused because of things like this.

[unreal schooner]

Why would you add this skill in a game if it's not supposed to be used or levelled then?

[wintry bobcat]

I dunno that sounds like how I like the game 😭

If you specialize in something you should be rewarded for it. Someone sneaking a lot should be rewarded over someone whos never sneaked a day in their life

[wintry bobcat]

It is supposed to be used and levelled, and it is. Just depends on the player, some players might not like to sneak and thus don't use or level it. Other do like to sneak (me)

[eternal storm]

Honestly I don't really know right now, but I would start making sneaking more effective and reliable, jumping more usable in level design, and swimming not so deadly.

[wintry bobcat]

Sneak can be good on Very Hard

[wet drift]

With sneak I think the problem is not in the skill system, but in valheim just not letting you hide.

There is only two ways to make sneaking worthwile, eithet boost the heck out of it skyrim style, or spend half your devtime making a stealth game.

Sneak is a dead feature, and will be no matter how skills are changed.

[brisk hollow]

Um, sneaking into a fuling camp and killing the shaman first before agroing the rest is a sound strategy I suggest you all quickly learn to adapt to when the time is right.

[wintry bobcat]

I will agree I think sneaking could be stronger, but it is useful already when used right. Most ppl just don't have the patience for it

I personally find it odd sneaking requires stamina tho

[unreal schooner]

What about sailing as a separate skill?

[brisk hollow]

My suggestion is to not play valheim if you don't have patience.

[wet drift]

I would, again, suggest attributes or carry over. A maxed runner should not ever be a minimum swimmer. (Unless they literally can't swim)

[eternal storm]

Movement doesn't need more skills, it need to balance movement options. It's really a different can of worms compared to the rest. And yes, sailing should be a skill because it takes preparation, dedication and risk.

[wet drift]

You can't really "balance" options that aren't meant to compete.

[eternal storm]

That's a similar problem to magic skills or fists: they're only useful when you start getting good at the game but you can't get better at it before being there. Sneak is more lenient because it's usable since day 1 but the player is not encouraged to use it because there's better options. It sounds like something needing a little tweaking.

[brisk hollow]

Not sure I agree due to the presence of troll armor encouraging and boosting sneak.

[eternal storm]

But they do. All movement options are useful in life or death situations but only one actually saves you: running. And all of them are useful (or needed) to reach locations, but only one actually gets you there: running. It is a competition, just not a fair one.

[wintry bobcat]

Sneak shots are so powerful, and taking out key targets (or getting them low and staggered) before war breaks out is great. Another reason why knives can be good too with patience

although tbh on normal mode you can usually go in mace swinging and be fine in most scenarios

[eternal storm]

Still not worth it. I have a character built on sneaking, troll armor and all, and he still isn't that good of a sneaker compared to other characters. The problem with sneaking is it's too much of a dice roll, while running works all the time.

[unreal schooner]

I'm sure it can be easily done by exploiting night time more. This is litetally whole part of game where you sneaky by default

[eternal storm]

Honestly backstabbing is the only reason to use sneak, but at the same time it's often not feasible (too many enemies, or you get spot before even getting a shot), or using a bow from a distance is just as effective.

[wet drift]

No, we are intended to run when going places. We are not intended to sneak there.

Sneak is intended for hiding or remaining unseen, but again, unless you spend half the dev time making a stealth game, it is either useless or op.

[eternal storm]

I said it can be leveled from day 1 but it's not really worth it. Most enemies will see you even in troll armor before you can backstab them, and now you're back to blocking or running away.

[brisk hollow]

Are you aware of weapon sounds? Like, for instance, that the Huntsman Bow is quieter than the other bows? That you can sneak-shot without alerting whole groups? It's a combination of learning the mechanics as well as the relevant recipes.

There's also ambient light. Did you know that some weapons glow? Did you also know that each glowing thing you are holding or wearing adds a stacking % debuff to your stealth?

[wintry bobcat]

eh not only reason. I remember one time I dozed off while sailing and crashed me and my buddy into a plains biome (while we were at iron stage). My buddy immediately got killed by a deathsquito, I killed the deathsquito but got seperated from his corpse. He had all the portal materials and I had nothing, and there was now a 2 star fuling guarding him. Still, sneaking at night made it really easy to evade the fuling that was literally on top of his corpse and I managed to make a portal with his mats

I'm gonna definitely up swim and sneak on this run. Not super high but just high enough for an advantage. I can't afford to lose my permadeath run to a few too many meters of water or an enemy just barely spotting me while sneaked

[unreal schooner]

I meant there is no need to use night time in the game rn, but it could be easily tweaked so that night time and sneakiness would be more crucial

[eternal storm]

It just needs to be more reliable and less stamina-intensive. Nobody wants to burn all that food on something that works until it doesn't, or that gets only useful after killing the first 4 bosses.

[brisk hollow]

Stealth walking just needs more momentum so you don't get stuck on slight inclines. Beyond frustrating.

[wintry bobcat]

Night time is nice for chasing certain mobs. Also, sneak does work better at night time

[eternal storm]

Also that.

Now, on non-combat skills. I see a few issues. First, harvesting materials is not a choice, so you're reward for just playing the game; compare it to combat or movement, when you level the skill you chose to use instead. Could as well have a crafting or a building skill. Then you have skills for getting wood or ore/stone, but nothing for getting wild edibles or crops, which is technically the same thing: getting stuff; I understand that would be difficult to implement, but still. But the worst problem is having no way to level magic until late game. I understand why it is like that, but it still means you can't really design a full-fledged magic user for day 1, which is a pity. To the very least, brewing potions... I mean meads, could somehow count, but I don't know how.

[unreal schooner]

It is so because certain mobs spawn only at night. It's not yojr choice. But if you encountered a troll for instance you could possibly have a choice: go and try to kill him rn or wait till night begins and sneakily catch him sleeping or just chilling with more chances to kill.

[pure patio]

I think you're not intended to have a specific "build" in general, you should be able to master all forms of combat, and use the appropriate techniques and tools where necessary. The crossbow and magic base weapon levels are intended to be usable at level 1 when you are able to access them.

[wintry bobcat]

I’d say it’s risk and reward. You like swords? Great, use swords. Get them super high level. Do great damage with them. But you will inevitably encounter enemies that are resistant to slash or that can fly and such, where a sword won’t be ideal. Still useable, especially with high lvl, but it would be recommended that you use some other weapons too and maybe level other weapons throughout your gameplay to make your combat style more versatile

You can be an absolute beast with a sword but it’s risky to only focus that whenever you encounter a dragon

[eternal storm]

I'm not sure that's really the case because the game hints all the time at least at 2 possible builds, with it's choice of armors: mobile fighter and heavy fighter. You can get good at everything but it's possible to focus only on a few things. Except magic.

[wintry bobcat]

Yes, and then you choose the build that is right for the scenario. Like outrunning wolves on mountain - fenris
Going toe to toe with cultists inside the mountain - Wolf armor

[eternal storm]

That's why melee skills work: they allow and reward specialization, and make you a little sorry you didn't explore other options, but most of the time don't punish you for specializing. Others skills don't work like that, unfortunately.

[wintry bobcat]

It’s a fair point, I just think you go a bit extreme with it at times. I could definitely see block becoming block and parry

[pure patio]

But the point with skills is that they add to the base values, they aren't necessary to be competent in using something. I can still use swords at level 0, and it very quickly goes from 0 to level 10 or so if you just use it for a few minutes.

[eternal storm]

But often the same scenario offers different ways to beat it. For example, is a bow or a pickaxe really mandatory in mountains? Not really: if you have a heavy fighter build you can still beat golems, and drakes can just be ignored. Again, combat skills work, the other ones are the issue, and returing to magic: it's a pretty big option that requires a specific build (gear, skills, even food options), but no way to practice it until late game.

[unreal schooner]

But why do you need to be ready for magic? Why can't you start it from scratch in late game?

[eternal storm]

The issue is not leveling or how much skill level matters, those are fine. The issue is the lack of incentive, or possibility, to level some of them, and how some basically auto-level while other stagnate if you don't start actively grinding them, which is far from ideal gameplay-wise.

[pure patio]

Why? Other than the number going up, why does it matter?

[eternal storm]

Because it's kind of a wasted opportunity, that's all.

[eternal storm]

As I already said, it's lack of polish, and even the devs seem to agree it needs a rework sooner or later. I'm just debating what the rework could be based on.

[pure patio]

And I disagree. You still haven't explained what the lack of polish is, just that you don't like not having numbers up higher when you think they should be. From an actual gameplay perspective, ignoring the existence of the numbers, what is the issue that you can't manage with various weapons or the skills being what they are? I use crossbows to great effect at 0 skill, and magic.

[unreal schooner]

It should be punishing for you to switch to magic in the middle of the game, but if you switched eventually you'll be rewarded for you commitment.

[wintry bobcat]

I don’t see why I need 50 magic skill when I don’t even have access to magic weapons. And I don’t think magic is suitable in the early game

[eternal storm]

Something like that. Problem is you can't because the needed materials are not available, and there's no low-level version of magic outside brewing mead.

[unreal schooner]

Actually i think he has already explained it pretty accurately. Mb a little bit in too extreme. I think despite the variety of opinions here everybody agrees skill system is not ideal to say the least

[pure patio]

How is using magic at the default level punishing, though? I get that you don't have numbers in the skills. Forget all that. What exactly functionally is the issue with magic when you first access it?

[unreal schooner]

Portals could be part of early magic skill.. somehow

[wintry bobcat]

Magic is pretty OP at lvl 0

[unreal schooner]

It should be punishing to switch at least imo

[pure patio]

Why?

[unreal schooner]

That's not ideal as well

[pure patio]

Why?

[wintry bobcat]

I agree. Bow magic and atgeir need hella nerf if the game wants to be balanced

[eternal storm]

I'd like if surtling cores or such magic-like items kind of started the possibility to have a career in sorcery. Of course when you get to late game it's OP but it doesn't have to be while you're still bashing skeletons in burial chambers.

[unreal schooner]

Because it breaks the skill system. Why was I levelling my axe if later i would just switch to magic?

[pure patio]

I'm not trying to just be contrarian here, I just want to kind of approach this from a game dev perspective. What are the actual functional issues people are running into? I don't have any clarity in that yet, other than people just not liking that their skills are lower numbers.

[wintry bobcat]

I wouldn’t mind being able to level magic early I just don’t see a good implementation of magic abilities early on

[pure patio]

Why were you leveling anything? You get better at the things you use. If you don't want to use it any more, you still keep the skill in it, and you just start gaining skills in another area. It doesn't hurt you to have other skills, and the design of the game is that you SHOULD be switching between things often.

[unreal schooner]

That's the same thing to say

Nobody is bothered with numbers, we're talking about what skills to use and why in terms of a whole system

[rose swan]

Right, having multiple skills is open ended and available to all. Sure, Valheim has ‘builds’, but you’re not sacrificing one skill for another.

[unreal schooner]

Don't be that literal. Ofc you don't lose anything, it's really just a matter of gameplay polishness

[pure patio]

If you don't care about the numbers, why does it matter? Is there something you can't do with magic when you get it? Or an axe? From a gameplay perspective. Perhaps blood magic shield levels, that's about all I can think of.

[eternal storm]

Luckily enough the game is robust enough to make a flawed skill system not game-breaking. In fact you can play most of it without leveling much, so it's not a matter of making the game better because it already is. It's just a complimentary system that could be better, at least by being more internally consistent and more in harmony with the rest of the experience.

[pure patio]

Again... how is it flawed? If you couldn't see the numbers, if you had no idea it existed, would you even notice what is going on?

[unreal schooner]

Forget about numbers. I play 10 h with a sword than magic appears i switch to magic because it's way better. Wby would i stay at swords if not only as my own challenge?

I want to be good at swords enough not to switch to magic

[eternal storm]

I already explained my opinion multiple times, anyway you can notice how skills work without a gui just by having multiple characters and testing them in the same situations, same gear. You'll notice high level ones are slightly better that low level ones. But it doesn't matter because that totally not what I'm talking about.

[pure patio]

So do it? I beat the Queen without using magic once.

[unreal schooner]

But you would do it easier with magic

[pure patio]

Possibly. But you can't easily beat Yagluth with an atgeir or knives because of piercing is resisted. That's just how it is. That doesn't make it any less useful against Lox. Are you saying we should be able to use only one weapon and beat everything in the game if we increase our skills enough?

[unreal schooner]

You're talking about specific enemies now, i was talking about skills in general

[eternal storm]

It's a matter of options: you get the option of being a great archer, a great warrior, a great whatever, except a great sorcerer. Maybe you can beat the game only by using fists and only eating stamina food, it doesn't matter: you still have no options to be a mage when you start the game.

[pure patio]

No, we're talking the same thing. Magic is not so oppressive that you can't use a sword in the Mistlands.

[pure patio]

You can't beat Bonemass as an archer, not without going to the mountains and getting a ton of freeze glands. There are many blocks to you choosing a singular build or skill.

[unreal schooner]

That's why it's a matter of polishness not a game breaking issue

[eternal storm]

See? Options. I know people who did what you said because they had the option to do so. Want to be a mage? Good luck with that.

[unreal schooner]

I killed Bonemass only with bow and smth 300 arrows first time I played, so you can.

[pure patio]

Y'all acting like there have never been games where new skills unlock as you progress.

[unreal schooner]

You're mixing together what we say 🙃

We actually say different things now

[eternal storm]

I don't see how any of this is relevant to some skills requiring some tweaks.

[pure patio]

Why do the skills need tweaks, other than the fact you don't like their numbers being lower? That's the core question nobody has answered for me.

[karmic flax]

How many hours has this discussion been going on? 😂

[unreal schooner]

I'm ok with magic appearing out of nowhere. Moreover I want it to be nerfed a bit

This is only a prologue

People come and go but discussion stays

[pure patio]

All the hours 😉 I just can't figure out what concrete things people want other than "numbers be bigger". I suggest skill levels should be completely hidden and invisible to the users.

[eternal storm]

I think I already explained myself enough. Fun fact: it wasn't about numbers being lower (than what?)

[unreal schooner]

Numbers don't matter, leave them alone to be whatever they are

[pure patio]

So, from what I am getting as a summary: you want access to magic before the game currently allows you to access magic so you can build your skills up?

I think the core misconception is that Valheim is a "class" based game, and skills notwithstanding, it's not. You can play whatever "build" you want whenever you want with minimal friction from switching.

[unreal schooner]

I also don't get @eternal storm 's point here

[unreal schooner]

But there's friction from switching with magic.. otherwise why everybody switches, except those who intentionally make it harder for them to play

[pure patio]

What friction? You have to eat different food, but that's about it as far as I can tell. And you can still use a mixed build to pretty decent effect, too, swords and magic.

[eternal storm]

That's just a tiny part of the whole thing, but no: I don't want access to magic as magic is right now, obviously designed around late game. I just think it would be nice if you could somehow work in that direction before getting there. You can say there's no builds or classes, but it's a game really focused on managing your priorities and resources, so it's natural to focus on something instead of something else. Example: investing metal on which weapons. My point is, there's no possibility to focus on low level magic because there is no low level magic. It's not an issue for you? Ok.

[unreal schooner]

Magic is still too OP the moment it appears. It needs to be levelled up beforehand to be comparable with the weapon you have been levelling all the time

[karmic flax]

I guess all of this just boils down to "skill issue"

[pure patio]

How can it be OP and still need to be leveled up? Those are diametrically opposed ideas. Or are you saying that the weapons should have their base power reduced and the skill levels smoothed from earlier?

[unreal schooner]

Reread what i wrote once again

To be that op it should be level 30-40 at least not 0

[pure patio]

So, from a game design standpoint, magic should be "equal" to all other weapons at the time you access it in order to have the lowest friction to switching. So... yeah. You've used swords a lot until then, but all of a sudden you can switch to magic without having any major of penalty. You can still keep building sword skills if you want to, it's still useful.

[unreal schooner]

I think that what both of us were talking about the whole time but from slightly different perspectives. Either you should be 'ready' for the magic prior to open it or it should be less effective the moment you take a staff for the first time

Otherwise that magic comes out of air and breaks everything even being level 0

[wanton edge]

As far as skills needing tweaking in general - the "skills don't really matter" argument is to me actually a sign that it is a bad system and not indicative that it should be left alone. Heck, if it doesn't add to the game, why even have it in the first place?

I think skills do matter, their effects are rather noticeable and its satisfying to feel yourself get better at something. But the rates of leveling different weapons is all wonky, and it feels bad when you unlock a new weapon and want to go try it out - but the best way to get some levels in it is to go whack greydwarves with the weakest thing in that weapon type.

Also feels bad when you try to get good at something like fishing or swimming or sneaking, something you don't use all the time but might focus on sometimes, and then you lose your progress to a couple adventures and unlike the skills you use all the time, you can't work towards getting that progress back while overcoming the challenge that killed you. Instead you have to set aside special time to rebuild (just to lose them again next adventure) or just accept that those skills are indeed useless because of the effort to maintain some levels in them (not talking about maxing it out, even just trying to keep them above 20-30)

[sterile frost]

do we really need more merchants?

[wanton atlas]

@wet drift Wattle and daub is way to modern for Valheim 😦

[sterile frost]

why not expand the selection of items available for purchase

[unreal schooner]

No, Haldor's range of goods is still rather poor to have another merchant imo

[sterile frost]

yeah, I couldnt be bothered searching for a third or fourth merchant, two is plenty lol

[brisk hollow]

Merchant on a boat that only stops moving when you approach it.

Merchant that you only get access to by learning the name of their portal.

[unreal schooner]

Haldor Pro Max, not only you're looking for him, he's also moving all the time

[unreal schooner]

This one I like

[brisk hollow]

Buildable stall for your base that you can invite a new merchant to move into.

[unreal schooner]

And the name of his portal can be bought from Haldor;)

[sterile frost]

i use greylings for that

[brisk hollow]

Merchant who lets you hire dwarf crossbow and mage mercenaries for 30 minutes.

Merchant inside a cave/crypt/mine

[unreal schooner]

Merchant who sells different types of merchants

[brisk hollow]

Honestly if people are going to complain about quests as a means of forcing them to explore the map, then might as well throw more merchants at them.

[unreal schooner]

World modifier for amount of merchants on a map (0 to 100)

Imagine 100 different merchants in a game and you are the only customer

[sterile frost]

But there will be this one fake merchant, the Merchant of Death who will try to kill you

[unreal schooner]

To sell you

[brisk hollow]

Oh I like the false merchant ambush!

[wintry bobcat]

Prob gonna see some pretty competitive pricing from them!

[unreal schooner]

Moreover they are competing in who reaches you first meantime clearing the map for you

[jagged flame]

Why did my álfar suggestion get so dramatically downvoted? I honestly thought that'd be a great way to include the álfar in the game in a substantial way.

[wintry bobcat]

Hiring NPCs to fight for you just isn’t a popular interest I think. I’ve seen similar suggestions for dvergr

[jagged flame]

They wouldn't fight for you, they'd fight alongside you; they'd abandon the fight if they saw you run away or not fighting as well.

[next edge]

This would require some pretty advanced programming. First off the AI would have to determine if you are running away and this has a significant margin of error.

[wintry bobcat]

Same thing to me

[next edge]

This might be implemented using a invisible radius that if you cross, then it counts as running away. And there could be a timer that monitors your attacks and the timing between them to determine the lack of fighting. But all of this has a serious flaw.

The margin of error is too large.

[wintry bobcat]

I'd say the concern is more gameplay loop than technical

[jagged flame]

First off, you'd still have to search for them just like you do with Haldor & Hildr; second, it'd really just be a thing that players who don't have any friends who own or play the game to help them take a boss they're struggling against down to get some help in spite of that; & finally, I introduced those conditions specifically to balance it out.

[wintry bobcat]

I will say that is a lot of dislikes tho, it's not that bad a suggestion just don't think the fighting alongside part is part of the vision of the game. There is also big debates on whether or not to add more NPCs, seems most people are against it

I personally think changing the difficulty is a better bet than hiring mercenaries. Especially because difficulty applies to everything

[jagged flame]

Well, we have the Dvergr in the game, & we also technically have the Jotnar in the form of their remains, but the álfar are a significant race in Norse mythology, & yet I don't see them anywhere in Valheim; I figured that'd be a great way to add the álfar to the game and give them a unique reason to be there.

Also, why have 10 player co-op be a big selling point if fighting alonside isn't part of the game vision?

[wintry bobcat]

I'm not too against adding them, kinda depends how it's done. I'm just not a fan of the combat companions

I already think bringing wolves is kinda silly

is it a big selling point? My impression was always that Valheim was a great solo player game but can be great fun with a few friensd too

[jagged flame]

Directly copied from the Steam store page description: A brutal exploration and survival game for 1-10 players, set in a procedurally-generated purgatory inspired by viking culture. Battle, build, and conquer your way to a saga worthy of Odin’s patronage!

[granite geyser]

Just bc the game is based on Norse mythology doesn't mean everything from Norse mythology will be included

[wanton atlas]

https://tenor.com/view/this-gif-4354544

[granite geyser]

That just says that the maximum amount a server can hold is 10 players, it doesn't say anywhere that that is the recommended/intended way of playing in coop

It's actually been explicitly stated that the intended way to play coop is with a small group (3-5)

[jagged flame]

Dude, I don't expect to meet all the Aesir in the game; I just felt that that one thing was missing considering how much else from Norse mythology they squezzed in.

[granite geyser]

That one thing will become the excuse for the next person to ask for another one thing directly copied from the norse mythology, and then the next person would do the same, and the next, and the next...

As I said, not everything will be implemented, a line will be drawn

[mortal lichen]

The problem with your suggestion is that it has **two ** things that are usually always a no-no by the devs:

1. Hiring mercenaries. As Smiffe once said pre-purge, you're there to prove yourself to Odin, not hire slaves to do it for you (no matter how you phrase it)
2. Splitting up the difficulty in co-op VS solo. Devs have repeatidly said that they will not implement something that benefits the other, and a 10 player vs 10 mercenary implementaiton might cause a lot of balance issues.

My two cents, it's not a personal thing, just based off experience and reading previous suggestions.

[wintry bobcat]

Potato prob not best idea due to same reasons as what has been discussed here. Also been suggested many times before

[coral cradle]

I don’t know why everyone wants to hire people. You have wolves and lox

[tawny cipher]

I see, could you potentially make the caves longer?

[wanton atlas]

no

[wintry bobcat]

longer still makes it bigger

[tawny cipher]

oh ok...