#Match Making

3399 messages ¡ Page 4 of 4 (latest)

graceful scaffold
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which is that the 1 for 1 system

solid marlin
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not possible

graceful scaffold
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not now papaya we're having a useful discussion

vague saffron
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and make sure you allow fill, and incentivize filling

graceful scaffold
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so the 1 for 1 swap system (which is coming, to be clear) has limits

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which is that you need to arbitrage your way to ideal

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let's say I want mid, and I have support

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but the current mid doesn't want support, they would take ADC

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ADC doesn't want support, but they would take offlane

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offlane is ok with support

solid marlin
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yea you have to play ring around the rosey with roles

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thats fine

graceful scaffold
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so I trade support to offlane, then I trade my offlane with the ADC, then I trade that ADC to mid

solid marlin
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there has to be a trust system involved

graceful scaffold
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well but working out how that even works takes time

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which like you said is limited

solid marlin
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i mean it just a 1 to one swap

graceful scaffold
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you need to establish what everyone has and what they would accept, then build a multi-step model of trades to accomplish it

solid marlin
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this perosn swaps

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then this person

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then this perosn

graceful scaffold
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yeah but how do you know that you can do that?

solid marlin
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one person request the other accepts

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both parties agree

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the system reassigns

graceful scaffold
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but I request mid from support, and they decline

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then what?

solid marlin
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then your stuck

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thats just how it is

graceful scaffold
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right and that's a bad outcome

solid marlin
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you cant account for that

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😄

graceful scaffold
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current system does reasonably well

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people click around real quick, and fill players make up the gap

vague saffron
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not now

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it did! but new patch will fix iti think

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you have to click 'lock on'

graceful scaffold
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yeah that was an error in the first version of the draft

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it's sorted in 1.1

vague saffron
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ya it better of been.

solid marlin
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i mean the current system you can still tell who is in each role

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so it does

graceful scaffold
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ok let's play a game

solid marlin
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but that system you have now i dont hate, but im just saying if people want a "role queue system" which gets argued a ton

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im just playing devils advocate

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for a system that could work

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vs what we have noww

graceful scaffold
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yeah yeah devils advocate is good

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again, find the part where I said "no chance" up there

solid marlin
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bc users would be allowed to select their preference before the game starts and the system assigns once the game is made

graceful scaffold
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trying to say "this is complicated and takes time and experimentation and isn't an easy replace without consequences"

jolly cairn
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Does any game use this MMR based pick priority system?

solid marlin
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so no increase in queue times and the users feel like they have control in wwhat they are doing

jolly cairn
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Cos ngl, it sounds like an awful idea

graceful scaffold
solid marlin
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right now the reason people complain about it is bc they feel like they have no control

graceful scaffold
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ok crazzy, top role to play, what are you picking in role queue if it exists?

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ADC, right?

solid marlin
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eh prolly mid

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its fun 😄

graceful scaffold
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ok right now

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what are you trying to play most

vague saffron
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mid

solid marlin
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i fill right now

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😄

graceful scaffold
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You really filling?

image.png
solid marlin
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yea ngl jshredz

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shoulda watched my stream

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that was the fill role

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.....

graceful scaffold
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...ok that's crazy

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or should I say crazzy

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fair play

vague saffron
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dont be a fool

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ive been carry iflling alot 2

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tbh

solid marlin
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i even kept saying oh god no i have to play adc again

graceful scaffold
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ok I gotta be honest, that surprises me

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my goal with that point was to find someone that's die-hard set on role queue

vague saffron
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me 2. and its alwayscringe with the duo que duo lane.

graceful scaffold
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and I bet they get their top role at like a 70% clip or better

solid marlin
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for me personally but thats bc i play every role

graceful scaffold
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yeah yeah this is all chatting

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this is ideation, which I love

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because then you test hypotheses and break 'em apart until you get something that requires experimentation and you go do the thing

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you can take me out of science but you can't take the science out of me NarbashLaughing

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ask me 8 years ago if I would ever work in games

vague saffron
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id like to have a prefred role, that does nothing but autolocks you into a role when u first join. that way you can see what everyone wants to play.

graceful scaffold
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beyond selecting a role

vague saffron
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time is money

graceful scaffold
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if your team has more information on what you want, they can work better around it

vague saffron
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we are limited on time to discuss. on top of that, you got cosnole controllers

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who cant really type

graceful scaffold
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100%, you both are totally right there

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ok so my hours are limited but I'm gonna spend a bit of time next week sketching out some ideas and catch up with the design leads

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there are opportunities here

vague saffron
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but

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we need something for smite / jungle change

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thats so important...

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id rather it be buyable or something or w/e for a quick fix.

graceful scaffold
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I dunno what that is, but DM me so we don't put non-MM stuff here

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or ping me in genchat

solid marlin
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ok i have a cool idea

strong beacon
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how balance is that and happens almost constantly that everyone is 2 leagues higher minimum and above now including diamonds

Screenshot_2024-10-05_181255_qwe.png Screenshot_2024-10-05_181355_asd.png Screenshot_2024-10-05_181452ds_ewrr.png Screenshot_2024-10-05_181545_.png
pallid sable
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I’d read the thread to understand why 🙂

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Been explained about 5 times by jshredz

strong beacon
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i can't understand why and how can climb if constatly play in lobbies 2+ level higher

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just need alot of games no matter winrate?

pallid sable
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Basically you’re doing very well!

viscid condor
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u just gotta play a lot more games

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basically

pallid sable
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Just keep playing and one of two things will happen

You’ll win more games and your VP will catch up to your MMR

Or

You’ll lose games and your MMR will drop to your VP

strong beacon
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Where is mmr and what is the point of vp being different from mmr?

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What is vp then

viscid condor
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thats the problem

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the games are very even but vp doesnt mean much

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better off ignoring it

strong beacon
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Just frustated how junglers as soon as see silvers telling they not gonna come and lets surrender etc

pallid sable
plain plaza
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Now i climbed to gold and im winning 15vp and losing 17. Unplayable. Your system is totaal crap.

jolly cairn
pallid sable
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From now on. If you’re going to type in here about MM and you haven’t read the thread. I’ll just delete the comments. This has been explained **countless times ** now by jshredz. Failure to read the thread is just laziness

somber agate
pallid sable
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Afaik u can’t pin messages in a thread

somber agate
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You can

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Could just pin this and let people read the blog, before making a complaint here that the blog doesnt cover

compact geode
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Only thing I can say is that with internal mmr being visible people could understand better if internally the match was well balanced and also it could help understand how vp and mmr interact together, but I already know that mmr will never be visible to players.

pallid sable
indigo ocean
jolly cairn
covert prairie
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Put

jolly cairn
indigo ocean
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so your logic is if I run the lobby its unbalanced but if I don't its balanced?

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if I ran or did not ran still criminal match making

jolly cairn
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Your complaint about matchmaking would be more valid if this vp difference resulted in a dominating stat line

indigo ocean
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I feel like very little individuals in that lobby have paragon mmr

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just bad way to view it imo

slim wave
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Judging from the time it was played and ur vp I'm guessing u had a long q time
And iirc, the longer the q time, the more flexible the mm becomes
And mm isn't based on vp anyway so Judging it on that doesn't rlly make sense

jolly cairn
# indigo ocean I feel like very little individuals in that lobby have paragon mmr

Maybe. Maybe not. Unfortunately we don’t actually know without someone like Jshredz giving us the inside scoop

My point still stands though.

In fact, I’ll ask a question. What about the game prompted you to check the ranks? Did anything happen to clue you into the fact that your vp was much higher than the rest of the lobby?

eager saffron
covert prairie
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Also

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Lakenator I feel should internally be high enough past paragon where he shouldn’t even be in those lobbies

slim wave
fresh hemlock
jolly cairn
# covert prairie Lakenator I feel should internally be high enough past paragon where he shouldn’...

You’re assuming everyone in paragon has the same or similar internal rating. This may not be true.

Diamond 2+ is also like 300-400 players total at the very absolute best. That is not a particularly large pool to create a game from considering people offline, not queuing ranked etc

I personally don’t see what the problem is. The goal is for the match to feel balanced not for him to get into lobbies with the same 30 or so people every day

covert prairie
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t

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I said he should be high enough internally to not get into those lobbys

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meaning everyone in Paragon does not have the same internal mmr

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and exactly

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that match wasnt balanced

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This was all addressed in this thread

jolly cairn
vague saffron
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theres a severe disadvtange if everyone is truly at the same / near skill level.

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because most likeyl they are in comms.

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but yes. VP does not correlate to mmr.

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BUT it makes me question wat the fuck the mmr is then

maiden relic
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But why show vp when you work with mmr

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I know a few games prob use it but yeah i just don’t understand why you would work with mmr and have vp showing

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Why not show mmr instead

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Its prob been asked before but cba to scroll up to search

vague saffron
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it shouldnt matter to you

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what should happen

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in theory

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is you get into a game, you play it, you win or lose

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done

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all that mmr and back end is important to the dev team. assuming they want players to keep playing

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your rank

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is just atrophy

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its saying

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YOU MADE IT THIS FAR NICE!

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'but why am i playing with paragon wen im gold'

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your mmr is saying your 'good enough' to play wit hparagons

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if ur playing with paragon and getting a 50% wr

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the systme knows to keep giving u MORE VP wen u win

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and LESS VP wen u you

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you start losing a lot? your mmr drops, and the system adjusts.

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j shredz is right. the game DOES do a good job with making sure low win rates arent in diamond elo.

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the dilemma is just not enough players

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its why i say play pred for pred, if you take this game HIGHLY competivly, you are playing the wrong game currently.

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unless you play scrims/ in houses, your not going to get the fairest of games.

maiden relic
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I play ranked a lot for fun bcs i love comp and i don’t really mind but some ppl like y maybe will be paragon and say what was even the point

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It will prob come in the feature prob tho

maiden relic
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Idk about the rank sometimes and sometimes i do

vague saffron
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u will get rewarded at the end of the season

maiden relic
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Thats why i’m perm chat banned lol

maiden relic
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Can’t confirm this tho

bright lotus
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🤣

night saffron
# maiden relic But why show vp when you work with mmr

This is a good question. Other games do the same, so probably is just to give people an easier data to digest and make the climb of the ranks more gamy and engaging for the players, overall for the casual ones, as for more dedicated players seeing the VP and rank instead of the real number that is being used to do matchmaking is something more negative than positive

bright lotus
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show vp and mmr like smite 1 does

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no harm in that

night saffron
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I don't know if this has been already discussed in this thread, but it would be interesting to see a game having a ranked mode that uses the classic VP, LP and Bronce/Silver/Gold/Plat.... rank, where the matchmaking is just done based on the rank of each player, so gold always play with gold, palt always play with plat and so on

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I suppose that if its not done in any game has to be for some reason, but idk, it seems like it would be more interesting climbing based on your rank, than having to play with people of your MMR, so you can be a gold player playing with plat and diamonds, in your games to decide if you climb in the gold rank or not, which always has felt awful

slim wave
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so they could use mmr for placements then remove it and then go from there

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but tbh that raises more issues

night saffron
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You can just put the players in a base rank, like could be Silver 2, and then make people climb from there

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If they are betetr than Silver 2 player they will go up, if they are worse than Silver 2 player they will go down

slim wave
night saffron
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Which is similar to what happens right now with all the players starting with the same base MMR for ranked which i think that was gold or something

night saffron
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Or that changes the system to a new one. Its just something inherit of starting something new, have nothing to be with the system itself

zenith otter
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Slightly diffed, but that game was not impossible to win - Remember every game is already lost the moment you give up, so keep on treading cowboys

plain plaza
# night saffron I suppose that if its not done in any game has to be for some reason, but idk, i...

It was done in multiple games. I remember that system in bloodline champions, sadly the game died long ago and its successor died too. Matchmaking was fine there. Ofc you were facing players of different skill but it was reliable info. If you see a dude against you that is higher on division you for sure would know he plays better and you should be doubly careful. Or if you see a low elo dude in your team you have to be ready to cover his ass so your team doesnt fail because of noone helping weaker players.

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Right now in pred you dont see actual mmr and vp doesnt show anything except grind time. You see a gold dude and he can perform everything from 0-30 to 30-0 kd. From jungler perspective its a disaster because you have no idea what lane you should keep an eye on. On which side you should farm more to have potential ganks and which objective will be safer to take.

night saffron
pallid sable
rare quarry
# slim wave that could work with placements but placements need an mmr to happen

you need money to create a bank account?

That's just how OS implemented the MM.

Other games such as Starcraft2 have a 5 game placement match procedure. You always start from lowest rank, each win brings you in higher rank. Each loss puts you down again.

Then you play in a rank assigned to you.

StarCraft2 has a Bonus Pool. From that you deplete points for loses first. Is the pool depleted, you lose ranks. The Bonus Pool fills over time to allow going for vacation. Starcraft2 also auto degrades your rank over time if you don't play for couple of days. That's why the Bonus Pool exists.

Each new season you do max 5 placements. But this time you start from the rank of last season. After the first game, the MM checks if you could promote or demote; if no motion is possible within the rest of the placement games, you assigned your current rank and have no further placements this season.

Why should StarCraft2 be a source of inspiration? Because you play 4v4 and select a race. Similar to Preds 5v5 and select a hero.

slim wave
# rare quarry you need money to create a bank account? That's just how OS implemented the MM....

There is no way to do placements without something to compare it to
In these cases, its mmr that they use to do placements

In the first iteration of a ranked system, if they dont use mmr from casuals, they cant do placements

From here, they can do placements or use whatever ranked system theyd like
But to begin with, they cant do placements

And your bank account doesnt make sense
You need a credit score to compare to to be able to make a bank account

rare quarry
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this is only a repeat if shredz's words and it is not based on research.

I just described how Blizzard solved it for StarCraft2. If I would have played more Heroes of the Storm, I could explain how Blizzard's MOBA solved ranked mode. As far as I remember, they didn't let the community play 1.1 million ranked games to have are sorted ranking. That's only how OS does it.

slim wave
normal rose
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MMR is much more volatile in the beginning so players should rise/drop very quickly in the first couple games

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Imo the ranked system of sc2 is the best of any game ive seen so far

rare quarry
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SC2 had the best ranking not just for 1on1, but for teams too including 4on4.

mild temple
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Fix the ranked matchmaking!!! I know new ranked players start at gold MMR and VP isnt important when it comes to matchmaking. fix that. New ranked players should start at bronze mmr. This player had no real chance to perform in this lobby and made the game miserable for his teammates. OMEDA FIX THIS NOW!!!!!

Screenshot_2024-10-11_231252.png
somber agate
spiral ember
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Yeah I can tell they’re putting me with brand new players. Last night we won a match 33-0 and yeah it was fun but it was still unfair. I want everyone to have fun, I don’t want to see anybody’s team completely steam rolled

dim briar
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Would be nice if they would allow people to dodge a draft, if people are trolling. Had a grux support last game duo had a 4/17. Before i won the match against a team with the only "front" being countess. Another match was zinx midlane and one was countess support. But mm is fine, except half the matches were people are trolling, because second accounts with silver or gold rank are matched with plat or dia.

queen minnow
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can I get an internal MMR check on my acc? 🙂

maiden relic
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They won’t show/give yr mmr

queen minnow
zenith otter
ruby plaza
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shit ranked

pallid sable
ruby plaza
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Fuck this.

hearty herald
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You can’t be serious with your matchmaking in ranked rn. Im not even joking im actually shocked. Just played a round with a friend on an alt, jungle mid. After 2 min duo and off all had 5 deaths 0kills. Once I watched what they were doing it was crystal clear that they are just straight up beginners not knowing what they do (not their fault but DEFINITELY YOURS for matching this up). Afterwards I looked in omeda city and I couldn’t believe it I’ll add pictures. Like what the hell. And before you do your typical „its a hidden mmr system“ excuse: it was like I said CLEAR that there’s a huge skill gap both between enemy and our team and the friend and I and our team. Also your hidden MMR literally is just bad. I’m playing on an alt account to be able to play with my friend and just for fun play some ranked games. We have now I think 100h in. The hidden „MMR“ (detectable by how many vp you get and loose per game) basically puts us both in the same position/ rank which is way below my original accounts rank and way below my actual skillset. Wich is fine for him and in this case also for me because we play together but it’s just a FACT that your system didn’t distinguish between actual playstile or even KDA but straight up just used wins/losses wich is pretty much the dumbest kpi you could use in a moba since as a solo q you don’t have as much control over a win or loss as in other games. So basically in your system you can technically be a diamond but stuck in gold or maybe even silver when you got unlucky with your first matches and then won’t be able to get to your actual rank since the hidden mmr decided you don’t belong there.

We ended playing so p**off of this game since it were just 3 bad games with two of them full of toxicity and then the last one this. And honestly I now don’t even blame the toxic people anymore if your matchmaking is THAT off.

Just fix it or be dead soon. So sad since you have such a great core game.

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slim wave
vague ridge
viscid condor
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vp diff not mmr

pallid sable
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Please read the pinned messages in this thread before you type

queen minnow
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idgaf, Omeda doesnt care about actually balancing out matches, the way their ranked system functions is insane.

They do not care about their communities comp scene, they do not care about higher level matches.

We are a % of a % and they couldnt care less about us tbh.

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but thats not what this thread is about, and even if I created a new one about it, the community at large wouuldnt give a shit because they dont interact with it (Omeda doesnt even communicate when massive tournies are going on). There's really no way to address that so meh.

eager saffron
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Maybe its not always applicable but it works more or less in a lot of cases

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You can tell that Khaimera and Greystone both have MMR close to their ranks, cuz they do not get the max VP possible. Hard to tell exactly as i cant tell if its Gold 1 / 2 or 3 but thats the general idea
Kira and Argus aswell

eager saffron
long cloak
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(Im [Godz] Margus in-game) i feel like almost every match i play is a team diff, like i got the wrong internal mmr or something, i can’t win a match no matter how good i play because it always comes down to my team not performing.

Just for an example, played these 3 matches back-to-back yesterday,

31028E7D-D8C1-41A3-AC77-EDFB383E9414.jpg 4E60541C-B08D-4B8D-8664-E0C411D751ED.jpg F12A1F65-7AF1-4E27-B248-11B350AAE316.jpg
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It feels sooooo unfair to perform great and still loose 18,19 or 20 vp…

slim wave
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first game looks pretty fair tbh
grux went kinda insane but hes pretty easy to play around in fights

the other 2 games are just what happens when you play games. they have good games, they have bad games, they have medium games. expecting your team to be amazing and perfect every single time will not lead to anything but disapointment

long cloak
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It happens a lot tho, i might be overacting, couldn’t you have like a performance based vp loss/gain system ?

covert prairie
long cloak
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Like if u play rly good and still loose they could adjust the VP loss to not be that impactful

covert prairie
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no

long cloak
covert prairie
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no

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lmao

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im jk

long cloak
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I’m just throwing out ideas

covert prairie
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but

long cloak
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:)

covert prairie
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its been discussed here and explained by Omeda

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I am not typing it out again

long cloak
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Oh rly

covert prairie
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yes

long cloak
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I will read that then

covert prairie
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@pallid sable maybe pin these messages

pallid sable
pallid sable
bright lotus
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don't get why mmr isn't shown

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clears up things

slim wave
bright lotus
slim wave
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yes, and from what i can tell from a short amount of research is that no one cares about their actual rank, so they only look at the mmr. which just makes the tp value obsolete which im guessing omeda dont want to do

bright lotus
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rank stops mattering more or less when you hit masters

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because when you hit masters you no longer gain TP when you win games, now you only gain MMR. your positioning on the leaderboard is soley based off your MMR after hitting masters

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BECAUSE the top 50 players on the leaderboard after they hit masters are considered grandmasters and have a grandmaster rank

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but before hitting masters you still having to care about your TP and which rank you are

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say somebody is gold 3 with diamond mmr and 20TP. then theres another dude in gold 3 with actual gold mmr and 60TP. the guy with 60TP would be placed higher on the leaderboard even though the other dude has diamond mmr because of his TP value

drifting musk
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It's unbelievably cringe that I get put in this lobby when I know for a fact that there are enough paragon players in queue at the time this match was made for a full Paragon lobby

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Sitting in queue, miss pop, get put in this. Huh?

rotund jewel
drifting musk
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Match made at the exact same time^ - are you really telling me this is the quality of match I get put into when there is an unironic D2 player in a Paragon lobby at the saame time?

rare quarry
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The entire community has to be sorted and then no new player must join ranked to keep the current implementation working.

drifting musk
somber agate
bright lotus
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MMR diff

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your rank really doesn't matter in predecessor IG

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but we can't see mmr

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🙈

somber agate
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I mean, something definitely is wrong. I've seen the Paragon players. They are not top players of Pred

rare quarry
somber agate
rare quarry
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Are kidding me?

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you just disagree for the sake of disagreeing

somber agate
willow steeple
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Hello. Are you planning to do anything with matchmaking in ranked games? Many people play in normal mode because ranked has turned into a garbage dump where they throw bronze players into the team, I would understand if it was silver, but bronze??? The enemy team is all gold, but we have 3 bronze and 2 gold. Result? Lost game. It is not clear what is taken into account during selection. The point then is in the ranking... If you play in gold, but you get newcomers.Thanks.

pallid sable
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It explains how Mm works

rough vine
zenith otter
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Why not bring Omeda mmr back on top of Ranked VP bois and ladies in the Omeda Studios

pallid sable
zenith otter
viscid condor
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well i think most everyone knows how it works at this poinnt

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everyone just doesnt like it

zenith otter
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Yeah but I strongly believe my input would solve those problems

pallid sable
zenith otter
pallid sable
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i mean you answered it yourself. MMR is matchmaking rating - that number on OC was never used for matchmaking cos it wasnt the number in game.

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It was a skill rating = elo

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but yeah going off topic here - if you want to know why they dont use OC mmr its explained by jshredz above

zenith otter
rough vine
normal rose
# pallid sable i mean you answered it yourself. MMR is matchmaking rating - that number on OC w...

That's just semantics, though. If we want to be this specific, it's not Elo either because it doesn't use the Elo system. "Elo" has simply become a term gamers use for these types of ratings. Technically the algorithm the game uses is much closer related to Elo than what we use on OC. Call it Elo, MMR, rating, or whatever, in the end, it is just an algorithm trying to evaluate you based on your previous matches. Whether or not the game directly uses this algorithm is irrelevant, and there is absolutely no reason why Pred couldn't use the same system we use on OC. Many games use Trueskill or modified versions of it, such as Smite, Rainbow Six, Valorant, Halo, Rocket League, and ptetty much every Xbox multiplayer game as well. Even League of Legends uses a very similar algorithm.

zenith otter
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Then unpredictability of Human emotions, one guy could play so good and one dude on the team talks shit I immediately FF. Others well they play worse and it makes sense, you're actually booing your own teammates if you think about it. Good luck winning with that

ashen elbow
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so is the idea just gaslight people that play the game on what they can post for feedback?

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this aligns with the chatbot

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so that makes sense actually

slim wave
swift mortar
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@queen minnow
Do you think this pairing is bad, I'm gold forever,The game gives me 2 normal matches and 4 with bronze and then 2 normal ones. I can't take it anymore, beginner guy who has no idea about the game on my team and the enemy team, full gold.

stable dagger
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this sums up a big piece of feedback ive had. Why This System Feels Bad in Practice
The current setup undermines core principles of a healthy ranked system:

Ranked Should Reflect Skill Progression: Players expect to see their progress tied to measurable improvements in skill.
Same-Rank Matches Are Intuitive: Facing opponents of similar visible rank creates an experience that feels fair and satisfying.
Carrying Out of Lower Ranks: High-skill players should be able to outperform and climb quickly, which isn’t possible if matchmaking artificially balances teams.
Proposed Solutions

  1. Matchmaking Based on Visible Rank
    Make matchmaking strictly prioritize visible rank, not internal MMR.
    Silver players should play against other Silver players, with only minor exceptions for queue times or edge cases.
    Result: Players in a higher skill bracket will naturally rise to their proper rank through consistent performance.
  2. Soft MMR Influence for Team Balance
    Use internal MMR only as a secondary factor to balance teams slightly, but keep visible rank the primary determinant.
    This allows some adjustment without completely ignoring rank, ensuring that matches feel fair while still reflecting rank progression.
  3. Faster Adjustments for Ranks
    If a player’s internal MMR is significantly higher or lower than their visible rank, accelerate the rank adjustment process:
    Give players more points for winning and lose fewer points for losses if their MMR indicates they are outperforming their current rank.
    Conversely, make rank drops faster for players whose MMR is below their current rank.
  4. Visible MMR Transparency
    Show players their internal MMR alongside their visible rank and explain how the two interact.
    If players understand the matchmaking system, they are less likely to feel frustrated or misled.
    What a Better Ranked Experience Looks Like
    Same-Rank Matches: Players face opponents and teammates of similar rank, making victories and defeats feel fair and meaningful.
    Skill Expression Matters: High-skill players can carry out of lower ranks without being handicapped by artificial balancing.
    Rank Progression Feels Logical: Climbing and falling through ranks reflects actual performance, creating a sense of achievement.
    Team Quality Matches Visible Ranks: Games feel more intuitive when team compositions align with player expectations for their rank.
    Predecessor-Specific Suggestions
    Ensure that ranked matches prioritize visible rank,
    Increased Rewards for Carrying:
    If a player in a lower rank consistently outperforms their team or opponents, reward them with bonus VP to encourage faster rank adjustments.
    Climb Safeguards:
    Implement a system where players on win streaks or with exceptional stats in lower ranks (e.g., top damage, most objectives) climb more quickly.
    Final Thoughts
    You’re touching on a fundamental flaw in how matchmaking and ranking systems can clash. By prioritizing internal MMR over visible rank, the system undermines the core purpose of ranked play: to provide a fair, skill-based ladder. a stricter rank-based matchmaking system would improve the experience
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rough vine
slim wave
# stable dagger this sums up a big piece of feedback ive had. Why This System Feels Bad in Prac...

Only/mainly using vp as a matchmaking tool with the current ranked system we have would make games worse tbh.

Back at the start of ranked, game quality was in the dumpster. If you matched based on vp you would end up with a similar outcome.

A good example of this is the match you sent. The bronze players did far better than the plat players. Because the mmr put the bronze players at a similar skill level which clearly, they are. But if they matched based on vp, those bronze players would match against other actual bronze players and it would be a one sided stomp that noone would enjoy, making an even worse match.

The game already has larger increases for wins and smaller decreases for losses if mmr is higher than vp.

High skill players can climb out of lower ranks easily. This is cos they would gain a lot more than they lose, even if they are playing against people at their skill level, so with even a 50% wr which would be ideal, they will climb to the rank dictated by their mmr. However, if they didn't match by mmr, yes the person would probably climb faster, but their quality of games while they climb would be awful. They would stomp every game, making those games unfun for everyone involved.

Showing visible mmr would just lead to everyone ignoring vp, which is what is made to be grinded for. Very very few games actually show your mmr, despite almost every game using it to matchmake

dim briar
# slim wave Only/mainly using vp as a matchmaking tool with the current ranked system we hav...

A problem with this system is that you have mm with the internal mmr, but you can duo queue with and only with the same rank.
Had a game where everyone was high plat/dia and we had 2 gold players in our team. Both performed really bad. 2/10 and 5/10. The player with the 5/10 has stats on his account that he maybe could play on that elo. The other one has a ps score of 110, k/d/a of 2.10, so not great at all.

Luckily this happens quite rarely, but it is a problem with having two different measurements that are used for mm.

jolly cairn
dim briar
stable dagger
pallid sable
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Im not saying you're wrong. It woulc certainly help. But it would only really start to come into effect with a higher playerbase and more people at each rankj

zenith otter
stable dagger
# pallid sable Im not saying you're wrong. It woulc certainly help. But it would only really st...

That’s where the strictness of the alignment matters. Player base Numbers matter. Let’s grant you that.

According to Omeda City
Platinum = 3% of player base
Diamond = 1% of player base
Paragon = less than .03 of a percent

Why is the top 4% of the player base allowed to hurt the rank experience for the rest of the community? Wait until they climb to crucify them.

Gold = 36% of the player base
Silver = 33% of the player base
Bronze = 27% of the playerbase

If you can’t be placed in a strict same rank vs same rank match than there should be a dynamic VP feature that rewards players that win against higher ranked players or even lose less for losing to higher ranked players.

Then it doesn’t feel bad when the player base effects your experience

rough vine
queen minnow
rough vine
normal rose
normal rose
# zenith otter Idk, I just know 100 PS is average player 200 is double as good. I believe it’s ...

There is obviously a correlation between playing well and having great stats and therefore also a high PS. That doesn’t automatically mean that someone with great stats also played well, that’s why I’m saying you shouldn’t try to evaluate players based on PS. It’s essentially just a summary of your stats. If you average your PS over a lot of games, it does give you a good idea of how the player is doing though.

This table shows the avg of certain stats for the old OC ranks, including PS:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1093895162167570433/1282780019936067615/image.png?ex=674d5d3d&is=674c0bbd&hm=32ed6eafd7d7a014ba9925cc997456871555de8ccbe4557f650e09aee130d175&

So its definatly a skill indicator over a lot of games, not so much if you just look at a single match.

zenith otter
dim briar
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Big problem on ps score in single games is it is so important whether your team is winning or losing. If your team is winning you can get objectives even when playing bad. On the other hand if your team is losing sometimes you could play perfectly, but you won't be able to have a great ps score, because it is impossible to get objectives, harder to get cs without overextending and you often can't even fight much, because the feed is too big.

On single games you would need to compare the ps score with the team, but even there it would be nearly impossible to include everything you would need to measure for an accurate ps.

Over all matches you do have the problem that the strength of the opponents is different and it is easier to perform really well against bad players than against strong players. That's why it should be a bit inflated on smurfs.

urban delta
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Hi guys!
I have a question, can you quote the answer if possible?
How many VP do you earn in the various leagues?
I have a bug since the last update.
Before I got between 15 and 18 points in platinum, now I won 5 games in a row and it gives me 11 vp per win.
I lost two, each one gives me -25.
(5w/2L= Tot +5Vp??)

When I was gold and I had several wins in a row I earned a lot of vp, I got almost platinum 1, I have 3.55 K/D. I think is good!
But now I'm back at platinum 3 and it's very difficult to climb with +11 and -25!
Maybe because it saved me from being degraded into gold at times?

Now I'm at 4 wins in a row (+44), and if now I lose 2 I'll go to -50.

Suppose I continue like this, 4w and 2l, I'll make -6 and stay at 0 with a 66% win rate??
It doesn't seem right to me

It's been a few weeks now and even though I've had several wins in a row it's still the same…

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I tried to search for the answer in the chat but I can't find it, if it is there, could you please quote it? thanks

pallid sable
solid sphinx
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This has been one of the most one-sided matches i have ever seen, the average VP difference is almost double.

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Game was surrendered at 15

pallid sable
graceful scaffold
graceful scaffold
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Since there are only so many 1900s it was easy to find this one, and it was standard PvP. Winning team was pretty clearly in a 5-stack just based on their "friends" section in OC

slim wave
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Standard game, vs a 5 stack, looks like you and your duo also went afk 👍

queen minnow
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I was told to play more

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I am dissapointed in MM even after much more.

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It seems to be consistently getting worse

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week after week it degrades more and more

graceful scaffold
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The "gold" player is 33-12 in Ranked with a 58% career win rate, they're not a true gold

queen minnow
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ok

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I think i understand.

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slim wave
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Idk why people keep posting oc ss as if they show anything of value in terms of the numbers of mm lol

dim carbon
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I mean, based on these two screenshots it looks like most of the 'lower' ranked players performed well compared to the person they were matched against in a similar role.

Isn't it a good thing that MM is able to identify the silver and gold that can play with the paragons?

covert prairie
queen minnow
queen minnow
# slim wave Idk why people keep posting oc ss as if they show anything of value in terms of ...

Sorry, Omeda has made it impossible to point out the piss MM they’ve thrown on their playerbase. No matter how you explain, or attempt to talk about the problem they themselves will gaslight you into thinking the way the system functions is okay. The best I can do is post matches where if you took a simple 10 minutes to skim the game you too could see why these players should not be in the ‘top lobbies of the game’

dim carbon
queen minnow
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You can go to my profile on Omeda.City and pull the match ID yourself, I am on mobile and don’t care to take the extra step.

What stood out? A few things. The same time this lobby pops I watch streamers within the same MMR bracket pop into lobbies with similar issues, a random Smurf thrown into and splitting up paragon lobbies. These Smurf players don’t understand rotations, farming, trade patterns. They don’t understanding their individual matchups, they don’t play out team fights well in any sense. This is supposed to be ‘the best lobbies the game has to offer’ I’m not in plat, gold, even diamond. I am at the highest rank the game has to offer, but I play with 5CSPM goobers that type the entire time in team chat about how they don’t understand why they are in the lobby.

dim carbon
queen minnow
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I’m actually just gonna step away. Omeda doesn’t care about its top players, it’s a shame I’ve supported this game this long with how they treat the playerbase and the level of dismissiveness. Just gonna play this PCC and the LAN then I’m done with this. I don’t feel the need to prove that MM is piss, every single top players complains about it, you can cope for Omeda if you want but they are killing their game and don’t give a shit.

grave ginkgo
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Yeah, and KDA. Some people exclusively poke at KDA as an end all be all measurement of skill but there are games in which I get some unnecessary deaths so to speak if my team had more awareness, but that death leads to several kills from my team and sometimes leads to an objective as well. There’s a lot of nuance when it comes to measuring skill in players

grave ginkgo
# queen minnow I’m actually just gonna step away. Omeda doesn’t care about its top players, it’...

To be honest, I think you are expecting too much. This game doesn’t have a very large playerbase, and a good chunk of players never even touch ranked. If ranked was a default we would see more players engaging with it and probably a bit better matchmaking, but it comes down to what players are available at the time. In any game you will see people complaining about ranked matchups at times. There’s only so much you can do with the current availability of ranked and the number of players available

viscid condor
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I think his issue is top level games dont exist

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even at the highest level rank

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which is true

queen minnow
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I sit in a 15 min Q, watching streamers within my bracket also in Q, multiple streamers will pop in multiple different games over the course of the Q time, each of these lobbies will contain 3-5 goobers that sprint/don’t know how to build/don’t understand trade patterns or gank windows.

Omeda won’t address or engage with this fact that we see play out day in and day out

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There is the possibility of a good lobby, but it’s not made and rather the pig players with a 60% WR playing against other pigs get treated like they should be in a top lobby

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This conversation is stupid. It has nothing to do with the player base. Omeda simply doesn’t care, so I won’t either. I’m tired of supporting a company/game that can’t take the time to resolve an on-going issue, they won’t even acknowledge it.

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Wish I could just remove this feedback post since Omeda used it to justify the system instead of acknowledging the issue.

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Disgusting.

viscid condor
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are you unable to remove it

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what the

covert prairie
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the only thing im having fun with right now is brawl

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everytime i give Ranked another shot

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i wanna uninstall lol

grave ginkgo
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yeah I’m not interested in playing ranked. I mean I couldn’t anyways cause I had to level up my acc (hadn’t played in months) but knowing how MM is sometimes inconsistent and how toxic players can get, I rather just play standard