math-and-meta

[delicate chasm]

And that's the other thing. Permanence. Until I'm confident the game is more or less finished, I don't want to undertake the Real projects, the stuff for which the multiplayer experience would really shine. The "We did it!" standing in the middle of the newly onlined nuclear factory without hazmat suits, sipping from golden cups.

[prisma kraken]

i think i would have a blast with a good friend just sort of doing whatever in the game and each sort of doing their own thing at times and coming together to work on things at times, but i think you make a great point that it would be better once there's more stability in the game as 1.0 gets closer

[obsidian gyro]

Hello! Between the two pinned planners, what's the better option to use? They both give me a slightly different setup / amount of machines given the same input and output, so I'm wondering which one should I be following in that case

[deft lichen]

I highly recommend Tools

Tools does optimization based on resource cost and enabled recipes

SCIM just uses what you tell it to without optimization

[obsidian gyro]

Thanks

Will do. A shame because SCIM realistic mode can come in handy sometimes

For planning purposes, I'm really bad at that

[deft lichen]

Isn't it a bit chaotic for big factories?

You can always just manifold between the groups of machines

[obsidian gyro]

Yeah for sure, It's not for copying but like getting ideas and a baseline

Got a question. For tools, what makes it choose an alternated recipe over a vanilla one? Like what's trying to optimize? Resource use?

[vapid gorge]

where it tells you exactly where to put a splitter and things? I really don't recommend it. It doesn't spit out anything that works well with layouts. Generally it's very dumb and with very little practice you can lay them out better with little thought

[wintry lily]

Finally started making proper charts based on pen/paper scribbles. This is the first

[deft lichen]

Weighted resource cost (trying to use less of the rarer resources)

You can of course force it to use a recipe by disabling all other options

E.g. it doesn't use caterium stators over default, so you have to disable the default

[obsidian gyro]

Fair enough

I kinda am just interested in using the least amount of buildings tbh so I'm just cycling through to see what's better in that regard

[hazy vector]

Hey guys I'm building a Nuclear Fuel Rod factory and the quick wire is becoming a real pain. I need to split my three outputs into four belts (for my manufacturers). Could someone please help.

Rates:
570 --> --> 442.5
570 --> --> 442.5
630 --> --> 442.5
--> 442.5

[primal flicker]

Injection manifold and let it take care of itself once it saturates?

[hazy vector]

well

injecting is a bit of a tricky one

do able but i though maybe someone has a design for this sorta thing

[wind spade]

why not build the manufacturers in sets that you need?

[hazy vector]

wouldve been a good idea XD

[wind spade]

it still is

[hazy vector]

ye i mean i just thought someone might have a blue print for a loadbalancer but that is probably what ill have to do

[wind spade]

people don't use load balancers usually

[jaunty geyser]

divide each input into 4, then combine one output of each

[primal flicker]

General Question:
What's your favorite thing to farm coupon points with? In the past I have used quickwire -> AI limiters and Uranium ore, but this time around I rushed crystal oscillator research and got 2 batches from the shop to "recycle", and I want to try mass producing circuit boards -> computers -> supercomputers.

[lusty oar]

this might help you https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/AWESOME_Sink#Farming_points

referring to the wiki bit mad for me

or if you read above it, try and unlock silicon circuit board. since it only uses quartz and copy it is really easy to produce then chuck into the sink.

[primal flicker]

I've been using that. I settled on computers based on cumulative point multipliers from specific alts (silicon boards, crystal computers, silicon HSC, etc)

[lusty oar]

ahh

well i tried to help lol

[primal flicker]

Looks like my late game strat will be mixed supercomputers (default and super-state)

I was just wondering what other people's personal preferences are.

[delicate chasm]

I like AI limiters. Next time I restart, it'll probably be Dune Desert, and my initial coal will be in the southeast not far from the swamp. Planning to mk2 miner the swamp uranium into a sink, AI Limiters until computers otherwise.

For the first 10 or so coupons for essentials like the ladder, road block and catwalks, a few stacks of concrete when you can spare it and some DNA capsules do the trick.

[primal flicker]

I did a NF start this time. Between the western NF and central RD, I should be able to make so many circuit boards
Found HMF from crash sites are amazing for early coupons.

But I'm still working with a temp Phase 1 factory and a single tapped coal node for power 😂
Gotta build some infrastructure!

[delicate chasm]

Aye, they really are. I tend though to just have something set up for coupons before I go pod hunting and I save the HMF for progression. I hate hand crafting them and delaying until after HEF is worth it IMO.

[primal flicker]

Got Encased Pipe and Encased Frame alts so I'm good on that front.

Time to leverage DPF so I can start chaining cheap silica, steamed copper sheets, silicon circuit boards, and crystal computers.

[delicate chasm]

The 2 normal caterium pair nicely with that eastern pure copper on the meta cliff.

Also, I forget if this one is actually a net gain or not - motors from rigour motor are FAST. Fast enough I've sunk overflow and was shocked at how many coupons piled up as soon as the ISC filled.

[primal flicker]

That's another great alt

[delicate chasm]

Meta cliff's also the only place I've actually made an automated rigour motor chain. 😁

[prisma kraken]

for this type of thing, i forego the diagram and just use an online tool (sp.runesun.com) to give me a spreadsheet-like layout like this:

i honestly find when i draw up the belting diagrams, i end up changing how i designed it on paper when i go to build it, so i find it sort of unfruitful effort to diagram the belts

[prisma kraken]

yeah, rigour motor is pretty nice, 4x the motors for the same number of rotors & stators

[true junco]

Cryatal Oscillators = 💪

[median heath]

True.
But I think I prefer Electric Motor tbh.

[torpid yoke]

i have a question, im trying to plan a heavy modular frame factory and im using satisfactory calculator. I need 495 iron to make 2 heavy modular frames per minute? or is the calculator mistaken?

[median heath]

Recommendation: Use Tools.

[torpid yoke]

which tools? what do u mean?

ahhh satisfactory tools ok

[median heath]

https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/production

[torpid yoke]

ill try, ty

[primal flicker]

Make sure you select the alts available to you that you plan to use

[true junco]

Yeah. Ill probably do an electric motor set up soonish.

Odd name tho, since all the motors are electric motors anyways.

[vapid gorge]

just clock them differently, you'll get there

[median heath]

🕰️

[hollow juniper]

Anyone Know how much headlift a Water Well pressurizer makes?

Ah found it

10M

[median heath]

All buildings generate 10m.
So you get 10m from each individual well node you connect to.

[vapid gorge]

do fluid buffers count as buildings?

[hollow juniper]

yes iirc

[vapid gorge]

then buffers are an exception

[median heath]

Not in that context, but for full clarity I would say "Production and Extraction Buildings"

I don't consider buffers a building any more than I consider a belt a building.

[vapid gorge]

or ISCs I guess

[glacial saffron]

I'm thinking of trying to to implement a delayed switch using micro powerplant with sushi switched fuel input
so when you switch on, it feed some fuel then switch off after some times but enable some other stuff with the micro powerplant

[vapid gorge]

micro powerplant?

[glacial saffron]

like a coal generator that get filled only few coal units for low power local system

[vapid gorge]

and by a switch do you mean one of those awesome sink based merger switches that trashes something like limestone until you 'turn it on'?

[glacial saffron]

you can think of it as a fallback power when some switch off

[glacial saffron]

I dont know thatlimestone and sink stuff, but sounds similar to what I'm talking about

[vapid gorge]

is the switch to turn on the back up automatic in someway? what is the trigger for it and what method do you want it to come on?

[glacial saffron]

I was thinking of a power down making a flood input fade and then allowing coal to enter the generator which then turn on the fallback local power

[vapid gorge]

Ok I suppose I should ask - is your goal making a neat system or just a way to be able to restart the system?

[hollow juniper]

Do Priority Power switchs tell you the consumption etc of the interal network seperate to the outside one

so if i put a prority Power switch before a factory i can see how Smooth its Efficentcy is compared to others? or is it all the same lines on all of the power graphs

[glacial saffron]

neat system ?

[vapid gorge]

as in a cool logistic set up to do a thing

[glacial saffron]

connected grids show a single graph behavior

[vapid gorge]

instead of just something to make power easier to manage

[glacial saffron]

a neat thing then

[vapid gorge]

I ask because there's probably much simpler methods to have stable power

[glacial saffron]

I want delayed switch off, that would be easy, but I also want a delayed switch on, which is much more complicated

[vapid gorge]

So yeah I've seen people do things like that. Though I think Priority Switches in U8 pretty makes that sort of thing obsolete on it's own but still neat to do

[glacial saffron]

priority switch only snaps on power ressources limitation, to trigger a power ressource limitation is probably harder, though I thought about priority powerswitch

[vapid gorge]

ok so for a delayed switch on you can build something called a Priority merger.

What could happen is you have your main power grid powering a Limestone node or some other trash resource that blocks the Priority Merger. If the main power system shuts down then the belt can start feeding something like Packaged fuel or Coal into the 'backup'

[vapid gorge]

oh yeah I just meant that priority switches can basically make it so your grid never goes down

unless you completely screw a major part of the infrastructure like... deleting rail where you need a train to deliver something

[glacial saffron]

as I said it's not for power stabilisation

it's for neat delayed control logic

[vapid gorge]

yup yup, was just clarifying 🙂

but the priority merger option is probably your best bet

You might be able to do something with VOP or VIPs and just pipes but I haven't put any thought into it

[glacial saffron]

now you could ask me why delayed control, answer simple : it must switch when inside a hypertube, and you can't go switch something while in hypertube

[vapid gorge]

yeah thats fine, you could fine tune the delay of when it goes on with belt speeds

increase or decrease the time it takes the time for packaged fuel or coal to get wherever it's going to be burned

[glacial saffron]

I can try simplifing it to delayed control though, I'm thinking for testing maybe just a power storage should do it, but it's tricky to time, storage power is lot of storage already

[vapid gorge]

the Merger idea comes from a guy who was setting up a complex Production On Demand system where he could just swap a factory production with a flip of the switch

[glacial saffron]

and it would still be nice to "auotmatically reload" the system

[vapid gorge]

well for automatic reload maybe youd want a 'backup backup power plant' that feeds the fuel to the 'delayed back up'

or a geothermal to fill up the power storage while it's not on

I'm nto sure how you'd make power storage delayed though

[glacial saffron]

you cant, its delayed shutdown though

but does not automatically reloads

priority powerswitch does not trip on storage down

feels like it's possible, but it burns my brain

[vapid gorge]

yeah I probably wouldn't try power storage for this, unless the Delayed Back Up is what recharges the Powerstorage that feeds the Delayed Back up fuel

[glacial saffron]

I was thinking like that, delayed backup that feeds the storage back the specified amount of power

the ideal case would be the priority powerswitch to trip down itself alone, but then you only have to switch it on manually to launch the system for only some time

[vapid gorge]

I'm not sure you can use those switches that way? afaik they just choose what doesn't shut down in order? but I haven't used them

[glacial saffron]

when not enough power on the grid they act as fuses

nothing much more than that

[vapid gorge]

yup yup

[glacial saffron]

I was thinking something like that could do it maybe

delayed shutdown then delayed timed reload

[vapid gorge]

FB pp and PPS?

[glacial saffron]

you can change values by :

• belt delay
• coal load
• generator downclocking

PPS : priority powerswitch
FBpp : Fall-Back power-plant

[frosty owl]

Do Coal gens take in Coal when the switch is off?

[wind spade]

why make a system like this anyway?

[glacial saffron]

system get up on power storage
the uptime exist only because storage fill the reminding power needed for FBpp to be able to power System
but then the PPS switch off
and the reminding time the FBpp reloads the power storage

[glacial saffron]

not for long

the coal is cut off

[frosty owl]

Flip switch, hypertubes go on for a set time then off. Energy/fuel used get recovered/refilled (if I understood right)

[glacial saffron]

yep

[wind spade]

isn't that just biomass gen with a storage container with fuel?

[glacial saffron]

biomass can't be automated

[wind spade]

or coal gen 🤷‍♂️

[frosty owl]

I was being generic. I couldn't recall wether Coal gens take in Coal when the switch is off or not

[wind spade]

just take X coal from container and put into gen

if you have both near the entrance, then usage is pretty much same time as flipping a switch and much easier to build

[frosty owl]

More cumbersome than "flip a switch", no automatic fuel refill

[vapid gorge]

for coolness, not simple power management

[wind spade]

automatic fuel refill? that's just miner hooked to the container

[glacial saffron]

harder to tweak

[wind spade]

(and yeah biomass can't be automated fully, but you'll have more than enough from things you collect on your journeys 🤷‍♂️ )

[glacial saffron]

and my system also work for very huge scales

[wind spade]

but I'm just suggesting easier alternative 🤷‍♂️

do what you want 😛

[glacial saffron]

the coal passing could be direct wiring of the coal miners

which would land me "Quantum Coal Transportation System" name

[frosty owl]

Missing the points of the original.
The "alternative" is a whole different thing, not just a simpler one

[glacial saffron]

the fact it have 2 stages of going off could make it handy for more complex System contorl logics

maybe could be made cascading

[wind spade]

I was going from the "want hypertube to work only for a while" (I assume for saving power)

my solution then fulfills all the things needed. If there's more needed, then I don't know about it 🤷‍♂️

[frosty owl]

There's Reddit posts to be found about complex logic applications, if you like that sort of digging. Eg: one made a "items on request" base, where they could "request" the factory to produce X amount of Y item by just activating some switches

[vapid gorge]

yeah I think he was the one that toured me his world

[glacial saffron]

that must be complex as hell for X amount

[vapid gorge]

it was neat, something I'd never do, but neat xD

[vapid gorge]

he blueprinted the logic paths which made it easier, and then it was just having a supply of 'trash' resources for hte off switches

[frosty owl]

You've missed the point: flip switch (literally) - > hypertubes go on for a set time
User simplicity is focus, going to "take thing from crate, put in other crate" already misses the point

[glacial saffron]

tbh I dont see simpler for auto reloading single switch system

[wind spade]

which I said that I consider pretty much equal in terms of simplicity

[vital charm]

i've got 600 fuel/min coming in going to 20 fuel gens in total. 30f/min each. should i prefill the fuelgens or let em run and fill

[primal flicker]

Overclocking generators, ig?
Always prefill pipes.

[true junco]

Yes 30/min is 250% OC.

Burned in my mind atm, I have to figure out how to set up 80 generators clocked to 250% in way that i like the aesthetics of in or near the canyon oil nodes... 😆

[primal flicker]

I could never.
Too many shards, for no efficiency gain.

Yeah, I'll just build 200

[delicate chasm]

🤭

[primal flicker]

I mean, I already did 800 for turbo blend... But that was a while ago and wanted a fresh start.

[delicate chasm]

4 HOR refineries per 3 blenders per 10 generators. Only pumps in the setup are the ones on the crude.

Working on an air purification floor idea. Hypertube entrances sucking in air and pulling into an empty room.

This is my main issue with generators on bottom floors, after all. :)

[true junco]

I just dont like how hundreds of the same building in a row look. Trying to tuck all factory into the landscape. Also have no interest in building huge flat platforms over the oceans or way above the terrain.

Also. Preffer the compact appearance. Serieously regret not overclocking everything as much as possible at this point. Everything takes way to much space otherwise imo.

I had not even used all the oil in blue crater and i covered most of that biome already. Lol

[primal flicker]

I built 16 octagonal floors of 50 fuel gens, each. 1st floor was HOR and fabric refining. 2nd was coke, fuel, and blend.

[delicate chasm]

Yeah, I am definitely going to be trying to do something like that in my 'forever save'. I'm around 1200 hours and still amused by building variations on patterns of chains, but I want my 'final answer' build style to sit well in the world, not take over the screenshot.

[primal flicker]

You could build into the terrain, more. Use canyons and valleys to hold the bulk of operations.

[delicate chasm]

Down cliff faces - I do intend to have facilities that go from floor to rim at a few points of the north canyon and the cliffs bordering the southern and central portions of the map.

Rather than having trains make elevation changes or using drones a lot, one of my ideas (I'm bad at the art part of building or I'd just have some screens to show already) has been to have factories that are also the exchange points for other logistics veins in the world. So some things will go up to the center of the map as they are, and some will be processed in the factory that is in the facility along the way. Other things will be coming down on the other side to be loaded, and the center of the map will have a circular route to connect the four corners logistically.

I figured to do all of my aluminum based productions in those facilities, as they require various different things.

[primal flicker]

I've been trying to get a feel for organically distributed production. I never liked the idea of a centralized mega factory, so I want to make everything as local as possible, to minimize the total logistics footprint.

[delicate chasm]

The one good thing ABOUT doing really big builds is that the logistics become less of a concern if your factory is big enough that the next set of nodes is no longer far away by the time you need another/more of the resource.

(See: North Forest, trying to build anything with assemblers that isn't in a tower)

[primal flicker]

Big is totally relative, tho.
Been slowly approaching the idea of automating supercomputers at 60/min, split between two facilities using different recipes and resource spreads. We'll see how it goes, once I'm ready to actually lay out phase 1 of my plan.

[prisma kraken]

something i've been taking to recently is doing factory complexes where i'm building really, really big, and kind of breaking what would be one factory down into multiple large sub-factories, using bi-directional trains or sushi tractors to move stuff around the complex

really sort of the criteria for what i use is whatever seems easiest to build and i think would be the most robust

[primal flicker]

I need some tutorials for vehicles.
I haven't used one yet. And I'm challenging myself this time to actually use the damn things.

[prisma kraken]

well, the hard part of using them is just driving them to record a route

[primal flicker]

I've yet to build a truck stop or train platform, 800 hrs into the game.

[prisma kraken]

i recommend if you play with them to pick something small and non-mission-critical and just move something with a tractor around yet

think of them as sort of a teleporter from one station to the next for 2 belts worth of items

you have to do some math about the capacity of the vehicle and round trip time

[primal flicker]

But then every station has to be included in a fuel distribution network too...

[prisma kraken]

but besides that, they're pretty straight forward if you keep the pathing for them simple

that is sort of a tricky piece of them

there's 3 good solutions imho to that

1. use coal or coke as fuel for its simplicity and renewability

2. early game, if you have a lot of flower petals, just power them with a constructor making color cartridges

[primal flicker]

Lol I've been trashing all the petals 😅

[prisma kraken]

3. late-game, drone in batteries to fuel them, which is easy too

[primal flicker]

I thought batteries ONLY power drones..?!

[prisma kraken]

seriously, i had a couple of early game tractors moving stuff for me on flower power

you can use them for vehicles too

my personal taste is that packaging and distributing fuel to them is a bit too complicated for me to wish to do

[primal flicker]

I've just been ziplining between my temporary Phase 1 factory and my temporary Phase 2 factory.

[prisma kraken]

it also just throws off the math on oil consumption

[primal flicker]

I remember hearing you can power them with nuclear fuel rods too. Which is hilarious.

[delicate chasm]

It's one of those instances where

disgusted face

four is appropriate.

Using 1 polymer resin to 3 HOR alts gives palatable numbers for DPF.

[prisma kraken]

yeah, pfr's last like 7 hrs in the tractor, lol

what's really funny is that if you stick one pfr into a vehicle, it'll immediately eat it and then run, appearing to be out of fuel for hours

the problem with the fuel rods as fuel is the truck stations and vehicles get extremely radioactive

[primal flicker]

More iodine filters needed I guess

[prisma kraken]

like i've used them in nuclear plants, and it is my far the most radioactive thing

no biggie to use now that the hazmat suit is always on

[primal flicker]

Gonna yeet the plutonium waste into mass storage on Paradise Island

[prisma kraken]

but you still do get at times without a stack of filters in your inventory during a walk-of-shame or something

[primal flicker]

Gotta keep extra at the HUB then

[prisma kraken]

I'm trying to figure out what i'm doing with my first nuke build

(of this playthrough, i mean)

[primal flicker]

I figured I'll start small, at the spire. What goes where, I have NO IDEA yet.

[prisma kraken]

i just finished 90 oscillators/min yesterday

[primal flicker]

Insulated?

[prisma kraken]

yeah

pretty big build, honestly

i'm definitely not doing a massive normal oscillator build ever again

[primal flicker]

Quartz crystals go BRRRRR

[prisma kraken]

the difference in density of the 2 recipes gets to be very palpable when you get into the 100/min range

[primal flicker]

Dense > Sprawling imo

[prisma kraken]

like for 90/min, its 90 manufacturers vs 48

the belting of the manf's sucks to do (always does), but that isn't really the ugly part with normal oscillator, its that you need so many belts of rips and cables that the logistics of the supply lines ends up being pretty ugly

injecting manifolds always just ends up being painful beltwork

[primal flicker]

Oh, because you're consuming >Mk5 belt cap worth of stuff?

[prisma kraken]

yeah, and the default oscillator recipe just uses ugly af numbers

14 cable/min and 18 crystal/min

there's just no good way of splitting that all

[wind spade]

use direct input then 🙂

[prisma kraken]

yeah, with 120 manf's though, i think it makes more sense to break the production of the sub-components into their own things unless you want a tower-of-stupid build

nontheless, you're then shifting the problem to needing to use injection manifolds for the raw quartz, copper and whatever you're making rips with

[wind spade]

separate manifolds instead of injection

[median heath]

Separated Injection Manifolds 😉

[prisma kraken]

ehh, it was an old playthrough, i would do it differently now in retrospect, you're preaching to the choir

[primal flicker]

Looking at it: 4 sections. AIL's, Rubber, Quartz Crystal, and finally the Oscillators. Whatever spatial positioning makes sense based on resource nodes.

[wind spade]

separated normal manifolds

never a reason to do injected 🤷‍♂️

[prisma kraken]

sure there is

[wind spade]

unless you limit yourself artificially

[prisma kraken]

like in my 5220 baux plant, i'm bringing in 2088 coke on a train as 3 696 lines

[wind spade]

make 3 696 manifolds

[prisma kraken]

no way of really doing that w/o an injected manifold

[wind spade]

^

[prisma kraken]

make you a deal, you build it and i'll patpat you when you're done 😉

[wind spade]

what's so hard on doing it tho?

[prisma kraken]

well build it and we'll see

in all seriousness, i try to avoid doing builds where i'm doing the same thing over & over again for days because it just gets so tiresome

the size of the build isn't linearly proportional to the time it'll take

[wind spade]

well, blueprints help with that

design once, build X times

[prisma kraken]

yeah, bp'ing those manufacturer manifolds is a real time-saver in the bpm, lol

[primal flicker]

This right here is how I ran into burnout building turbo fuel power.

[prisma kraken]

did you use the default recipe?

i don't think i've ever done default tf b/c it is a really big build

[primal flicker]

Turbo blend

800 generators

It was fun, but I spent every bit of my inertia to do it 😂

[prisma kraken]

haha

i actually do a blended TF build in most playthroughs for 40gw

which is a reasonable sized project

[primal flicker]

Yeah the scale is probably where I fucked up. 120GW was definitely overkill.

[prisma kraken]

this as a module that you build 3x for 40 gw isn't that bad to build

ofc, dropping the generators for fuel power still sucks, but you'll have that with big fuel power any which way

[primal flicker]

I need to do more modular production setups than I've done in the past.

[prisma kraken]

one balancing change i wouldn't mind seeing is for them to double the fuel consumption & power output for the generators

for me, its coming with experience

if i were doing dilluted fuel instead, i'd remove the refinery & blender in the middle and pretty much end up with the same layout

for that,i'd have 2 output lines instead of merging them for 400+400 fuel instead of one for 400 tf

but the back-end hor half of the build is pretty much always the same

this is what the recycling loop looks like, with it all stacked to be compact and a liberal use of shards

...the first 6-7 recycling loops i ever built were very large things that just sprawled all over the place

[primal flicker]

Good idea, and maybe even make fuel power a bit less efficient overall. More incentive to at least attempt nuclear.

[primal flicker]

I'm so stingy with my shards 🤣
Miners and extractors, only.

[young terrace]

Im looking for a list of every item you can make with only iron. Anyone know where I can find that?

[primal flicker]

That's basically everything unlocked before steel. With iron wire alt, anyhow.

So, nothing past modular frames, RIPs, and rotors.

Unless you count smart plating

[young terrace]

Hm, is there a list somewere I can use? I mean, yeah i can use satisfactory wiki, but thats not on 1 page

[wind spade]

depends on recipes obviously

[primal flicker]

Not that I know of. Just look in the tier pages via the HUB interface.

[wind spade]

but why do you want that? 🤔

[primal flicker]

Every milestone tells you what default recipes it unlocks.

[young terrace]

Want to try something new, I've made an iron district, and i want to roughly plan out how many factories/zones I need

Thats why im searching for a list with only items made from iron

[primal flicker]

Plates, rods, screws, frames, rips, (wire, cable, and rotors w/alt)

I think that's it. Anything beyond requires steel.

[young terrace]

Okay I'll start with that. Still thinking if i should use alt recipes or not 🤔

[young terrace]

Yes, since its made from iron only I count it in
Rotors, mod frames too

[prisma kraken]

fyi, not to dissuade you, but all basic iron goods are more efficiently made with steel and possibly oil

example: 1 steel ingot = 48 rods

also, in the early game, the stitched iron plate recipe is really good for ramping early rip production since you aren't requiring copper and wire for much until later in phase 3 & 4

[young terrace]

Oh really, thanks! Im still a noob in this so think ill stick to the basic recipes, and maybe move to the alternates in a later stage

[weary citrus]

hi rainy

[glacial saffron]

do overclocked generators also have less efficient outputs ?

which would means more fuel consumption less power produced for it

[primal flicker]

No. I think they should, and iirc they used to. But MJ/fuel is linear.

[glacial saffron]

so it only cost shards and improve space efficiency and build efficiency ?

nice to know

[wind spade]

200% gen behaves the same as two 100% gens

[deft lichen]

yes, unlike production buildings, there is no downside to overclocking generators other than the shard cost

[glacial saffron]

ty

[vast crest]

How do you get the alt recipe?

[deft lichen]

it has no prerequisites, just scan drives

!wikisearch Hard+Drive

[brisk shore]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/index.php?search=Hard+Drive

[prisma kraken]

recipes are unlocked by finding hard drives at crash sites and researching them in the mam, there's some RNG associated with the choices the mam gives you, but more recipes are added to the game pool as you unlock various milestones in the hub

[vast crest]

Oh nice. Thank you!!

[prisma kraken]

np, its an incentive in the game to explore 🙂

[glacial saffron]

base setup works as expected, now I have to cut coal input when no power

here it must only send one coal when on

maybe easier to manage with water

[glacial saffron]

water does not work, too low granularity

[leaden depot]

This would be a welcome change. The ratio of fuel generators to fuel production buildings is too high. I never do fuel without cheating in shards for the generators.

[vapid gorge]

trying to use a vop/vip for automatic power reboot/

[glacial saffron]

vop vip ?
finally I remembered that there are valve, generator use water at 1m3 granularity so it is low enough for my setup as long as I greatly reduce water push, I use pump headlift reset as controler

[vapid gorge]

in the #math-and-meta channel there's a pinned msg with a Pipe Manual, VIP and VIP are junctions that prioritize flow. I thought you were trying one of those in order to make your automatic back up

[glacial saffron]

wtf I still have flow even though headlift is supposed to be reset

pump is off

ok I think valve are fully bugged, it still flow even though there are no input of water anymore even before the pump which is still off

I think the bug is that every pipes have 2m headlift after the pipes, instead of filling at (Hp-Lp)/LpHeadlift

[vapid gorge]

valves don't work as people expect - in general? don't use them

[prisma kraken]

i personally just feel that fuel builds take up more real-estate than they out to

[vapid gorge]

and I can't recall whether unpowered pumps reset headlift is bug behaviour and how it works between u7 and u8

[prisma kraken]

always been that way, and they're supposed to do that

[vapid gorge]

you sure? I thought I remember seeing Mcgal talking about pumps and headlift with some uncertainty a while back

[glacial saffron]

I can confirm I have actually infinit water supply after the valve

you can't tell me it's intended behavior

[prisma kraken]

i mean, it is written, if i'm not mistaken, that that is their behavior, and that was written in the u3/u4 era

pretty sure the pipe manual wasn't written before u3 😛

[glacial saffron]

my coal generator keep filling even though I have a cut pipe and an off pump

and pipes does not even empty

oh it finally stabilized after minutes

I think what's pissing me is we can't write the valve thoughput

[vapid gorge]

apparently there's also a thing where you can't precisely limit valves?
What are you trying to do with them btw? in general I'd avoid them

[glacial saffron]

limit, because as I said I'm using very tiny water units

btw it works

[vapid gorge]

so why do you want a limit? can you not control how much is fed by clocking the extractor or gen ?

[glacial saffron]

nope, because they feed too much

at a single time

valve act as filter

pump as flatner

only a single 1m3 water is filled inside the dowclocked generator

I think if I increase generator clock and valve passthrough I will get longer burst power

but valve is there so it is consistent enough to actually time things from one to the next one

[vapid gorge]

I'd have to look at exactly what you want and are doing, you want it to randomly turn on?

[glacial saffron]

no

[glacial saffron]

I linked it

[vapid gorge]

that's really not helpful sorry xD

[glacial saffron]

it will be inconsistent/random if I dont use valve

[vapid gorge]

are you feeding it the right amount of water that it's clocked to use?

[glacial saffron]

^^^

generators work at 1m3 water

at least coal generators

btw 8MW is unstable timing, I will down it to 7 and test

[vapid gorge]

yeah I'd have to see it sorry, I'm sure it makes sense for you since you have a clearer picture

[glacial saffron]

I'll write a practical schema

the theoretical one is already there

5.3 valve 7MW generator seems stable at 0.6-0.7 m3 water reminding

[wind spade]

valve is unreliable tbh

[vapid gorge]

sure I jsut don't understand why the valve is there in the first place

like if you clocked the generator to use that much only that much will flow down the pipe

[glacial saffron]

it is when pipe filling is constant

[wind spade]

valve is anything but constant

[glacial saffron]

it will not

[glacial saffron]

the valve is not, please re read my message

[vapid gorge]

you mean it'll use more fluid than it's clocked at?

[glacial saffron]

no, it will be permanently active, that's not what wanted

you completly forgot the point of the design

[delicate chasm]

All machines will fill up to the level of 1 stack for their internal buffer.

I think Sharklien is describing feeding it only the minimum amount to turn it on.

[vapid gorge]

I didn't but didn't you want it to come on when other power failed? Not sure where the valve comes in

[glacial saffron]

it will not "come on" if it stays on, and it will not come down if the the water tank is filled

and it will not consume consistently or fill consistently if flow is not very tightly controled

[vapid gorge]

hmmm well I'm curious and I'd be interested in having a look if you were willing to send me the save in a dm, but I'd have to see the set up to understand

just not coming together for me through text

[wind spade]

yeah

given that you want all pipes to be full anyway, there's no point in using valve to limit flow

[glacial saffron]

I never said I want all pipe to be full

are you here just to make up what I said or what ?

what's the point

[wind spade]

no, but it's very much recommended by everyone to have full pipes, otherwise there's flow issues and other issues

[vapid gorge]

I think it has to do with how they want to make a logic system?

I'm just not getting the set up through text

[glacial saffron]

it's completly going against what I want, and I explained why, now I said my setup make it very consistent, valve are inconsistent when filled directly with machines and with varying flow and pipe filling, that's not the case here

[wind spade]

valves are very inconsistent in general given they can only have 255 values

[delicate chasm]

That's imprecise, not inconsistent. As long as the fill level behind a valve is 100%, they do not affect flow rate.

Flow rate is gated by fill percentage which creates the odd behaviors we know of with partially closed valves.

[glacial saffron]

valvle at 5.3 generator at 7MW, consumption at 18MW
very consistent 11s power burst with automatic reloading
I have what I wanted

[glacial saffron]

this, thank you

[wind spade]

valve at 5.3 will only let through 4.7 afaik

[glacial saffron]

not great but at least you can inspect it a bit and get my current setup
water should have enough headlift to go up to coal generator only when pump is on

3 states :

• pps on : storage unload coal gen starts (pump filling water)
• pps shutdown : pump and system cut off, storage empty, coal filled with just enough water to reload the storage
• pps off, coal off : standbye, storage loaded ready to burst/cycle again

[prisma kraken]

can i ask why you'd want to shut off the coal plant?

[wind spade]

it's some weird contraption to power their hypertube for limited amount of time with a flick of a switch or something

[vapid gorge]

they're playing with making logic gates

[prisma kraken]

ahh, ok

i would actually consider using liquid biofuel for that and have the trigger be dropping a stack of SBF into a crate

[vapid gorge]

how come?

[wind spade]

I said that same thing yesterday

[prisma kraken]

just drop the stack into a crate, fuels the generator, and it stops when the stack is consumed

[vapid gorge]

I suppose this way you don't have to carry or move fuel, you can just poke a thing?

[prisma kraken]

wood w/ charcoal into a coal gen may be simpler though

[wind spade]

or coal into coal gen

[prisma kraken]

alternatively, just hook it up to a priority switch and carry a stack of hsc's with you to build the off switch when you land 😛

[frosty owl]

Complexer than "flip a switch"

[prisma kraken]

🙂

[median heath]

"Complexer" sounds like a villain name.

[snow dove]

“more complex” requires forethought, and it’s way too early for that

[glacial saffron]

it's not a logical gate

[zealous kelp]

so i need help as i just dont know why the hell my pipes dont flow, none of my pumps goes over 20m headlift, and the indicator for the max headlift is just broken as i dont see it, and i dont know why the water still wont flow all the way up

[snow dove]

prefill the pipes?

[zealous kelp]

wdym?

[oblique hollow]

fill the pipe, then turn it on

though your best bet is making a #1038092680493801533 post and showing images

[zealous kelp]

tried that, is it maybe because the headlift of the water extractor is 10m and the needed headlift to the first pump is 10.1?

in theory it should be able the do 12, shouldnt it?

[oblique hollow]

just try placing the first pump really low

statistically, everyone is absolute garbage at estimating the first 10 m

[zealous kelp]

i cant really, i have the pipes goind through floor holes, immediatly into a junction so that i basically get 3 water extractors worth if water in 1 pipe, and then on the same height there is the pump

and i checked the needed headlift to reach that pump is 10.1

[zealous kelp]

well id used foundations but it seems like the game calculates the starting point of the 10m really weirdly

[oblique hollow]

snapping the pump to the pipe makes it longer than you think

[zealous kelp]

wait ima send u a screenshot real quick

[oblique hollow]

the starting point is the outlet of the extractor

[zealous kelp]

ignore the mess in the background

the pump is on the same heigt as the pipe you can see on the foundation

[oblique hollow]

oh you have floor holes

[zealous kelp]

yeah

[oblique hollow]

those are actually known to fuck with your stuff

try clipping the pipe directly through instead

[zealous kelp]

how would i do that?

jsut remove the floor hole?

[oblique hollow]

remove the pipe and then just aim at the junction and then at the extractor

[zealous kelp]

are you sure that the floorholes are the issue? because it looks pretty dumb without them tbh

[oblique hollow]

also: your pump will only really receive full flow once all the pipes left and right of the junction are full

[oblique hollow]

floor holes are well known troublemakers, its worth a try

[zealous kelp]

they should be full

[zealous kelp]

what would happen if i just wait for update 8 maybe? it should habe come out 5 minutes ago

maybe itll work then

[oblique hollow]

~~it more likely to break even more ~~

but oh well

[primal flicker]

Had anyone tried to make a TAS for SF?

[zealous kelp]

but its the stable release isnt it?

[frosty owl]

Turbo-Advanced Screws?

[primal flicker]

You can always put a dummy floor hole after building the pipe and foundation. It won't connect but it will look "right".

[primal flicker]

Yes exactly. Just like speedrunnera use for other games.

[zealous kelp]

you think that is the better option instead of just putting the whole foundation 2m deeper, so that headlift till the pump is around 8m? thats what i was going tot ry now

[primal flicker]

I haven't had very many glitches floor hole connections. But I have had them. And I described what I do when it happens.

[zealous kelp]

the shape of the pipe doesnt make a difference right? because i did them all noodle

[primal flicker]

It might look a bit wonky unless you use horizontal to vertical or have your connection points precisely placed.

But how much time are you going to spend just looking at details like that? Practically none.

[zealous kelp]

noodle actually looks the best where i used it, as it is to go from the extractor through the floor, the rest is placed normal

[zealous kelp]

i just hate if its imperfect

[primal flicker]

I can live with that.

[frosty owl]

You call that life?!

[zealous kelp]

just got back online after the update, i spawned in the hub and all my stuff is gone what the hell is this

[frosty owl]

Not #math-and-meta, but you weren't "logged in" when you loaded the savefile. This takes some time after the game has loaded, especially if you haven't opened it in a while.

[zealous kelp]

i just killed mz old self, and took the stuff back in mz inventorz, was that wrong_

[torn sundial]

Have i overdone myself for not even having the space evelator?

[oblique hollow]

yes

[primal flicker]

If you are having fun, you are NOT doing anything wrong.

[torn sundial]

in #design-and-architecture are more of those weird images of that

[fierce ruin]

youre just preparing ahead of time for nuclear waste storage =)

[serene shell]

I had no idea you could do that...my old self from the Update 7 launch is still sitting somewhere...

[primal flicker]

How close is the correlation between WP and Sink Points of raw resources? (Or default recipe parts, for that matter?)

[wind spade]

sink points of raw resources are very close to weighted value

tho it may have gone a bit off when they added/removed nodes

[primal flicker]

I did see some added coal on the dune spire cliffs....

So, it's generally safe to estimate SP efficiency of an alt combo using WP as proxy?

[wind spade]

well, only if you count raw resources. Any intermediates' sink points are off already

[primal flicker]

Right.
I've been trying to sus out the most SP-efficient supercomputer recipe (including precursor part alts)...

[wind spade]

I'm not really sure wdym by sink point efficient 🤔

since that essentially boils down to resource efficiency

[median heath]

Coupon-cost efficiency

[prisma kraken]

well, i finally found a spot where a truck makes sense to use

getting the full sulfur node in grass fields to blue crater via vehicle was too close to the hairy edge of what the tractor can hold that it made sense to use a truck instead of doubling up tractors on the narrow edge-of-map path

i could have probably positioned the truck stations a little better to cut the RTT for the trip to under 4 minutes, but meh, the additional fuel isn't going to be an issue

[leaden depot]

Trying to prep my figures for ficsmas. 60 stars per minute is quite a huge project.

[prisma kraken]

remind me what all that takes

i always forget what the production line for ficsmas looks like until its all unlocked, lol

[leaden depot]

9000 gifts for starters. That’s 600 trees

[prisma kraken]

where? i think if it is what i'm thinking of, that is a sam ore node

[prisma kraken]

i think the default super recipe actually has the highest yield if you look at the fact it frees up aluminum to be used for turbomotors

[primal flicker]

LOL I forgot that exists! tbh I only saw it from a distance.

[prisma kraken]

yeah, they added a few sam ore nodes around the map, 2 in the spire coast, i think and then a couple of others too

[true junco]

I really like the default super computer partly for that reason, and also partly because it matches 1:1 with the Caterium Computer alt. So i have a BP with 2 manufacturers in it. One for Catcomp feeding straight into the default supercomp.

[prisma kraken]

all 3 recipes are pretty demanding

the OC SC recipe is the worst though, trying to hit 60/min of SC's will blow your bauxite budget like nothing else

superstate is the most resource efficient, but i find the recipe sort of meh for needing both batteries & ecr's

truth be told, i use a box factory with the OC recipe for most of my building needs because the only production chain that needs them is ADS's

i'm planning on automating it all, and with SC's i'm probably just going to look at my production, throw all 3 alts into the mix with whatever i'm already making and then figure out how to make up the shortfall with what resources i can gather in DD

really sort of one of those toss the kitchen sink at it sort of tacts 😛

[true junco]

It all comes down to trade offs in the end. Seams like one eventually is running out of sulfur, bauxite, or quartz depending on application.

If you dont use quartz to boost aluminum, you run out of bauxite. If you maximize aluminum, you have a lot less quartz to boost electronics and other chains like "rigour motor" etc.

And if you maximize wastless nuclear, and max aluminum via "instant scrap" you will be limited in how much sulfur you have if you want to throw batteries at super computers and still run a lot of drones etc.

Its all doable obviously. We just cant do all of it at once. And it cements the idea that using multiple recipes for the same products is definitely viable.

Ref: all the convos we keep having about Instant Scrap vs Sloppy-Electrode. They both achieve the same result of scrap. But the cost of Instant is potentially more limiting than the cost of Sloppy electrode. Im convinced that 100% sloppy electrode is probably best way to go. But any amount of instant is also fine if you dont want the sulfur and coal it will consume. I think a blend of the 2 will be very easy for most players. One simple needs to figure out how much sulfur you can sacrifice to instant. For me. I dont want to make 100% of aluminum via "instant"

Which is all a bit of a moot point since there are uses for bauxite other than aluminum technically.

I do wonder how much of these trade offs will/may dissappear if/when the "fix" is in to allow access to the resources that cannot be extracted by mk3 miners on pure nodes at 250% due to the limit of a single mk5 belt...

[prisma kraken]

yeah, we'll have to wait and see what happens with the mk3 miner issue, if we'll be able to extract 1200 from pure nodes, it will very much change the calculus, and also whatever rebalancing they do will as well

btw, with OC supercomputer, bauxite isn't the only thing you run out of, it eats nitrogen, very easy to find yourself using all 12,000 of it on the map w/o realizing it

i guess at that point, you could entertain using the cooling system alt for cooling devices, but that recipe is sort of unappealing to me because it uses more bauxite than the default

[median heath]

Was the debate of "which of the perfectly equal recipes is better?" had again (even though by definition of perfectly equal, said debate has no objective resolution) and no one invited me? 😭

[true junco]

Oh no, @median heath , we didnt have the debate again. Just referenced the debate to make the point that efficient use of resources eventually becomes a balancing act, and certain choices necessarily restrict others. Assuming the player is trying to max out a lot of late game stuff.

[true junco]

I was wondering if that was a thing. Most calcs ive done on "max resource use" left a lot of N2 unused...

[torn sundial]

no im just getting a bunch of storage for well, items xD

[rare igloo]

Wow! That is quite a lot of iron ore.

[torn sundial]

no, thats: wire, cable, reinforced iron plates, iron plates, concrete, iron rods and prob more!

heres a photo from "outer space distance"

how do i get down safely

by falling xD

[rare igloo]

parachute?

[torn sundial]

no, i just eaten berry nuts (or how its called) and walked off
base:

[wind spade]

why all the containers?

[torn sundial]

idk

[oblique hollow]

Nice storage, bet you'll never actually use more than one container's worth until it fills up again though

[torn sundial]

yeah now i managed to comingle the concrete ON (almost) every conveyor belt in that base

[prisma kraken]

the combo of OC Supercomputer, Heat Fused Frame and maxing nuclear pretty much will blow through all 12000 nitrogen, nitric acid becomes a really tricky thing to supply for it all

just this alone uses an eye-popping number of resources

max nucler uses another 3024 nitrogen, and you're still not looking at turbomotors with it all

[true junco]

This is why, thankfully we have alts for turbo motors and super computers that do not involve any nitrogen.

[charred mist]

if i need to get 2,5 constructors with screws, how much do i need to underclock them each so they need an equal amount of rods?
Please help ;-;

[prisma kraken]

yeah, for turbomotors, the pressure alt really does save pantloads of resources (most notably bauxite), but it isn't too nice on the nitrogen

[prisma kraken]

2.5 screw constructors tally a total of 100/min, if you're looking to perfectly split the rods going into the constructors that are feeding it, you're looking at either a 3-way or 4-way split where you'd have each screw constructor making either 33.3333 or 25 screws/min; working backward, that would mean feeding each of those 33.3333/4 or 25/4 rods/min

there's much easier ways of accomplishing this all, but i'm just showing you the thought process to follow

if you don't know about hard drives & alt recipes yet; the cast screw alternate recipe takes 12.5 ingots and turns it into 50 screws/min

the recipe kinda sorta screams to be used with rotors 🙂

[charred mist]

Thank you for this

[prisma kraken]

also, we're talking about balancing inputs, which was what your question entailed, a much simpler construction method is to use a manifold to self-balance belts into machines at odd rates so that you could connect 3 constructors for screws at 100%, 100% and 50% in a manifold and just send the 25 rods needed down the belt

eventually the machine's internal buffer fills, and the overflow makes it down the input belt to distribute the correct amt of product to each machine

the drawback is it takes a few minutes for the buffers of the machines to fill, but often it ends up being a simpler and more compact method of building

[median heath]

Thankfully?
Turbo Pressure ftw. All day every day.

[wind spade]

@frosty pawn for alt recipe choices see #math-and-meta message

@rare steppe also see #math-and-meta message

[rare steppe]

Thanks !

[formal perch]

hey does anyone have a quick tipp how to share batteries for drone usage quickly and efficiently? I play with a few friends and I specialized on batteries to fuel drones. As far as I understand it, a base A can be given orders to send any parked or incoming drone to another base B. I had a drone flying and bringing batteries but when the drone port is full it just does not come back and it does not unload the excess batteries in my base.

[median heath]

Plz don't copy/paste the same message across multiple channels.

[vapid gorge]

afaik drones can only go between point A and point B , you'd have to manually redirect them? which sounds bad

@icy salmon but yeah honeslty - play through. There's a ton of little details in the game that are best learned through practice as it'd take forever to explain and you'd probably forget it in the huge wave of info. On the other hand you learn it quick messing around in the game

[icy salmon]

Okey, thx

what are tiers? @vapid gorge ?

[vapid gorge]

as you build you produce items and the HUB you get asks you to input items to unlock new tech

it's a really good progression method that helps you learn things at a good pace 🙂

and don't worry about making mistakes - resource nodes are infinite and you get full refund on dismantling buildings

open it up and land in the map 🙂 grassy fields has some time open spaces to mess around with, dune desert isn't a bad begginer area

[icy salmon]

i got the 2nd map

rocky desert or something

is this a bad beginning ?

[wind spade]

it's all the same map

and there's no "wrong" start

(and worst case if you don't like it, you can move to other start areas or even to non-start area)

[vapid gorge]

I'm not a huge fan of it for various reasons but it's not a problem. It's not going to cripple your game in anyway

especially since you're just learning

[median heath]

Best starting biome.

[icy salmon]

thx

[fiery jackal]

I would kind of disagree a lot of the areas marked easy have really crappy starting ores

others put you closer to the coal so thats fine

[median heath]

I was unaware that CSS added new items to the game called "crappy iron ore" and "crappy copper ore"

Must have missed it in patch notes.

[fiery jackal]

The best starting location is honestly the desert
A lot of empty space and a lot of good starting ores

[median heath]

Which desert?

[fiery jackal]

unless its been changed

[median heath]

There are 2.

[fiery jackal]

the one near the edge

[median heath]

They are both near the edge.

[fiery jackal]

uh wait they both might be

let me to pull up a map

[median heath]

Not a question of "might be"

They both are

[fiery jackal]

The rocky desert one

not the dunes

[median heath]

RD is a great choice.

[fiery jackal]

ye

[median heath]

Ore is ore though.
There is no crappy version.

[fiery jackal]

Is there one that's decent near the coal?

theres pure normal and impure...

[median heath]

Tractor that you get in the coal tier makes "distance to coal" an irrelevant factor, as you can auto deliver.

[fiery jackal]

A lot of the starting positions have impure stuff

[median heath]

None of these are crappy.

Impure is completely fine.

[fiery jackal]

hm except for any basic machine you make needs to have two or three of them

[median heath]

No..

Iron Plates needs 30 Ingots.
That's 1, nonclocked Impure node.

Iron Rod needs 15, that's half a nonclocked Impure.

[fiery jackal]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

ig its my opinion them to just ignore impures

[median heath]

Also the GF starting area I go to has 8 Impures.
Which is the equivalent of 4 Normals.
And no one is going to say 4 Normals is bad.

[fiery jackal]

Yeah but the rocky desert has what 6 normal/pures

of each copper and iron

[median heath]

Neither metric matters.
Impure vs. Pure is irrelevant at a baseline.

What matters is "does the area provide enough ore in total?"
Because your factory does not care how the ore is acquired.

So if you need 300, and you can use 2 Impures to get it, using 1 Pure is exactly the same outcome.

[icy salmon]

how can i build a miner? to extract iron and cooper ?

[vapid gorge]

auto hand miner? go to a workbench

[icy salmon]

no, something to mine auto

[vapid gorge]

you mean the building? go to your build page and look at what's available

[icy salmon]

i dont have any?

[vapid gorge]

I don't recall at what point you unlock them

there's a small tool you can drop on a node that will mine a stack of material you can collect after a bit

if you look at your hub you can look at the tiers and it'll show what you unlock

[icy salmon]

portable miner ?

[vapid gorge]

you can drop more than 1 portable miner on a node

[icy salmon]

okey thx

[median heath]

Equipment Workshop

[prisma kraken]

sometimes on things like an impure limestone node in the early game, it can even help to set up a portable miner along side a powered miner to 'stuff' extra limestone into a concrete 'factory'

(pretty sure you know that, but for the sake of others, i made the comment)

[icy salmon]

is there a way to make biomass without having to run and collect bushes for wood and leaves ?

like to extrat automatically ?

[frosty owl]

The point of biomass is that you can't (fully) automate its production.

There are more or less convenient sources of biomass though.

[wind spade]

kill monsters

[icy salmon]

thank you

[balmy spear]

Trying to expand my Alumina production to make use of all the nodes near and just wanted to ask something to make sure I don't mess anything up. I have three nodes feeding into one train cart, 600, 600 and 300, so 1500 total. I know conveyors can't take more than 780, but assuming the outputs split evenly (I know some double output things don't split evenly, like large boxes), I'm trying to split it into 750 and 750 between two lines to then feed it into two Blenders each. This is the setup I've come up with, but just need a verification as to whether it'll work without issues. Mk.5 from each "out" from the train into a splitter with Mk.3 and Mk.4 belts (to limit throughput to 750), merged back into Mk.5.

[wind spade]

personally I'd just use what is on the belts - you have 600/600/300, so build machines so that they use those amounts

[frosty owl]

Plan is solid

The only issue is trying to move that much/min via a single freight platform

[balmy spear]

Alright, thanks. Was easier bringing the Bauxite home where I had Sulfur ready and tons of water than getting water and Sulfur to the Bauxite, then finished product home, so wanted to figure out how to do this.

Freights are loaded/unloaded instantly, round trip for the train is just 1 min, so doubt it'll be an issue there

[wind spade]

there's a pause that diminishes the throughput

[balmy spear]

I'll of course build a buffer box right after the part I showed above

[frosty owl]

Usually, you end up needing to time trains accurately when moving more than 1.5 of a MK5 belt (~1300/min) and the higher throughput limit is less than 1.95 belts

[wind spade]

my personal preference is 1 belt = 1 platform

[balmy spear]

Normally I don't over-fill stuff, but already had the train line bringing me 600 Bauxite and then remembered I had two extra nodes next to that unused

[frosty owl]

NOTE: Freight stations don't output/input to/from belts while they're loading/unloading trains, so 2x MK5 belts of throughput is impossible to achieve with a single freight

[balmy spear]

Yeah, I know it stops, but it still had a buffer box, the station itself acts as another buffer and it will be the same on both sides

[frosty owl]

I don't mind pushing it to 2x600 sometimes

[balmy spear]

I always fill things up to build buffers before getting production started just to prevent "stop-go" situations

[wind spade]

sure, just saying it's my personal preference

[balmy spear]

Mine too, I never really do this, it's why I wasn't sure

Anyways, thanks for the help

And maybe in a future update they'll make programmable splitters have the option to output x/min to make it easier to micromanage things

[frosty owl]

With items stacking at 100, the throughput you're requiring is impossible.
See this for reference: #design-and-architecture message

[frosty owl]

I find that unlikely, at least not in such a simple way.
It would trivialize load-balancing (which just got a "boost" with blueprints)

[balmy spear]

Hopefully we get something at least. As for the thing you linked, it's interesting, but the round trip is short, so it should be fine, will have to test though

[frosty owl]

If you try to load/unload freights faster than what referenced in the message, the belts won't be able to keep up, accounting for the fact that more frequent load/unload = more down-time for belts

The numbers shown are the maximum possible. You can either get that much or lower, depending on how precise your setup is

[icy salmon]

how do i fly if i activate flight mode ?

[balmy spear]

Ctrl+F

[frosty owl]

Wrong channel, but double tapping space bar should turn it on/off

[icy salmon]

thx

[icy salmon]

where should i ask questions? in what channel ?

[balmy spear]

It only turns it off, to turn it on is different so that you can still use jetpacks and stuff. Anyways, I might have modify the train for an extra cart, but really don't want to, it's always a pain doing trains because the tracks won't snap right every time

[frosty owl]

#satisfactory , #satisfactory-experimental , #design-and-architecture , #dedicated-servers or #1038092680493801533 depending on subject and how complex the issue is ( #1038092680493801533 is the most in-depth)

[wind spade]

experimental is shut down 🙂

[proud oracle]

Can anyone lead me to some simple setups for early factories for iron and copper

[frosty owl]

"lead"?

[proud oracle]

To a website or such

[wind spade]

📌

[frosty owl]

I would suggest against using websites for simple things (especially early game), as that's where one can learn the game itself, but...
If you're looking for something that calculates stuff based on your objectives (eg: X reinforces plates/min), SFTools is probably your best choice
If you're looking for examples and discussions on setups, a Reddit search might work better.

[wind spade]

I'd say that copying setups from reddit (complete with pictures and such) is probably worst thing you can do (you learn nothing 🙂 )
if you use online tools, then it's a bit better, as they usually just do math for you but you still have to figure out how to build stuff
but yeah, for first few builds the numbers are super simple, so it's best to learn game mechanics there and build them yourself

[proud oracle]

I get the mechanics, problem is when I start new I just want to rush faster belts etc

Never tried to optimize early game

[wind spade]

optimise for what?

there's no "best" setup, it always depends on what you prioritise and what you want to optimise for

f.e. some people want lowest resource consumption (or lowest consumption of one resource), some want smallest footprint or lowest power consumption, some want to reduce complexity, etc.

[balmy spear]

Just don't take early game too seriously, you'll remake the factory at least 10 times going from start to end of the tiers, so just have fun and wing it with a calculator (as in normal one) and whatnot, no need to min-max everything

[wind spade]

or you won't remake it at all because remaking is waste of time 😛

[balmy spear]

Fine, keep using Mk.1 conveyors while dealing with Alumina Scrap and see how that goes lol

[wind spade]

uhhh what? I didn't say to not use better belts in the future

[balmy spear]

If you don't remake it once you get Coal, you won't have Mk.3-4

[wind spade]

why not?

[balmy spear]

Because to build Coal you'll use Mk.1-2 until you can unlock better ones, if you don't remake anything, then you'll still have those

[frosty owl]

He meant like: don't remake the Modular Frame factory when you get to HMF, rather make a HMF factory including frames production

[balmy spear]

Also, Mk.1 drills...

[wind spade]

yeah I mean don't touch factories that make stuff

if you need more resources, you can ofc upgrade miner and put splitter in front of it, but that doesn't mean you have to rebuild whole factory

[balmy spear]

You still will remake things because of alt recipes honestly

[wind spade]

you can get most alts before building the production

[balmy spear]

Not always, you often will remake things, it's initial investment for more yield, but I get where you are coming from

[wind spade]

not always, yeah. There's a few exceptions, which you mostly don't want anyway (like pure iron)

and personally I wouldn't remake things unless I need the resources and there are none left on the map, which happens like never

it's just better (time-wise) to make new factory than to rebuild old one

[balmy spear]

Alloy is so much better than Pure that I just don't get the point of Pure lol But unlocking recipes is a pain, 10 minutes of wait for a 99% bad pull of three. Really hate the wait time and also not having an option to "lock" recipes for next scan

But I'd argue it takes longer to carry everything to another node with conveyors and whatnot, clear the area, build from scratch and then carry everything back than just dismantle and rebuild (or expand) on the spot

[wind spade]

you don't wait, you research it on the go. As you go to next crashed pod, you research the previous drive

and there's more HDDs than recipes, so you just pick whatever and move on as you'll get most if not all of them anyway

[balmy spear]

Have lost count of how many times I would end up with like 10+ drives waiting to get scanned once I went on trips to find them, would find them faster than they researched

[wind spade]

carry everything to another node with conveyors
what?

you just take what you need and build new factory, you don't build conveyors from your previous one to the new one

sure, you may need to bring back conveyor or train with final product to storage, but you'd have to do that anyway

[wind spade]

then you build next factory while drives are researching 🤷‍♂️ you never have to wait afk

[balmy spear]

And then as soon as you are done building that, you get the recipe that undoes your work because it's so much better to use that one lol Has happened to me so many times, I get the recipe as soon as I'm done setting up

[wind spade]

and? it doesn't matter, because the factory is finished and works. Unless you need the resources (which you don't because map is huge and full of resources), there's no reason to redo

you just use the new alt in future productions

[balmy spear]

Not everyone has a supercomputer to run 50000 machines all over the map though, gotta account for that too, it's why, at least for my PC, it's best to remake things than to build more and more

[wind spade]

I'm not saying that... but recipes that are better in one property (e.g. more resource efficient) are usually worse in others (e.g. use more buildings)

if you optimise for number of buildings, then best course of action is to overclock everything

if you optimise for resource usage, then you'll have more machines by definition

and spreading factories over the map is actually easier on your PC than building in one place

[balmy spear]

The calculations still happen, even when out of render distance, once I hit 500+ machines, the game loves to crash on me and alts help minimize machines (especially smelters that you'd need up to 11 per node normally). Generally though, it's less trouble remaking than going and rebuilding elsewhere, especially if not in the Desert. In the Desert, you have so many nodes on almost flat ground, it's a joke to go to the next one and build new there, in other places, not so much because of terrain and distance.

[wind spade]

yes, but stuff far away is less taxing, confirmed by devs and community

[formal perch]

❤️

[novel delta]

U8 overclocking ratios
does this look right? (clock/100)^log2(2.5) cost?
https://www.desmos.com/calculator/05pn31mjzb

[primal flicker]

Imagine doubling your machine number to save 20% power demand 😳

[oblique hollow]

the biggest energy save per machine should be at around 40%

below that your machine numbers increase substantionally more but you have less savings per individual machine

[novel delta]

(supposedly) the biggest energy save per machine is going from 1->2 machines, it gets worse from there
https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Clock_speed#Basic_underclocking

[oblique hollow]

that doesnt seem right from the test i did

at 40% it is roughly 2, but not quite

also please dont link to the old wiki hellsite

use wiki.gg

[primal flicker]

That looks like it's only true when you start with one building at 100%.
I'm sure the "sweet spot" is closer to 40% if you are producing substantially more.

[primal flicker]

Except where data there isn't apparently available on the .gg wiki?

[oblique hollow]

well then it should be on wiki.gg

gotta put it there

[novel delta]

wiki.gg says the same but I feel like the numbers are flawed in their presentation...
surely 2->3 should be a 12.2375% saving (where 1->2 is 20% and 3->4 is 8.8448%) ?

the 9.79/6.21 are the incremental improvement aka "1->4 is only 6.21% better than 1->3" but "3->4 is 8.8% better than 2->3"... statistics is annoying /:

(edit: it's kind of like saying...
"the effort of going from 1->4 vs the effort of going 1->3 only nets a 6.21% benefit"
vs saying "the effort of going 2->3 gets you 12.2375% and the effort of going 3->4 gets you 8.8448%")

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Clock_speed#Basic_underclocking

[primal flicker]

(Specifically, the expandable spreadsheet on the AWESOME Sink page, showing the point value of input/output and point multiplier value of each recipe.)

[river night]

they choose to represent it in relation to 100% usage, percentages can be annoying

[novel delta]

it's the "for one more building" phrasing in this that's misleading, i feel like. but, oh well, im too lazy to do anything to the wiki

[novel delta]

Real G's (green energy conservationists) use 440 times as many buildings to save the most energy possible 😌
https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Clock_speed#Advanced_underclocking

[primal flicker]

I feel like what's needed is incremental energy savings curve, i.e. the slope of the curve that results from (%change in power demand)/(%change in machine number)

[oblique hollow]

Im think im gonna comb over that section later today

this was a quick and shoddy diagram i did for this some months back. the power usage was tested directly with smelters

this is miasing the relative savings collumn though

[novel delta]

yes but at any rate regardless of how you present it the biggest benefit for "adding 1 more machine" occurs at 1->2 for a 20% energy savings and just goes down from there

there's probably a way to present that curve in desmos à la (x-1)/x though

the ratio is always "double buildings = +20% energy savings"... ignoring rounding errors from the 4 decimal limitation (because the formula is log2(2.5) )

[novel delta]

https://www.desmos.com/calculator/2vpjkjh8s6 enjoy this monstrosity
(the first purple table is what you want practically; red line is the actual savings curve, orange is the incremental gains like i was talking about)

tl;dr how much adding +1 building changes power cost %*100

[formal ether]

Hello! Maybe I'm not thinking, but I'm struggling with the last part of my factory here. My goal is to produce 10 modular frames per minute. I have 5 constructors that each require 12 iron rods and 3 reinforced iron plates. In total, 60 iron rods and 15 reinforced iron plates are being produced for this assembly. The reinforced iron plates come from 3 assemblers and the iron rods from 4 constructors. The problem is that my brain can't comprehend how I'm going to split 60 iron rods and 15 reinforced iron plates into 5 assemblers. Is someone able to help me overcome this issue?

[median heath]

Do you have smart splitters?

[formal ether]

No, I'm not there yet. : )

[median heath]

When do you think "there" is?

Because you can unlock them in T1-2.

[mystic moon]

Smart splitters not needed, just manifold normally

Sev don't be pushing sushi too hard 😉

[median heath]

I'm not.

[formal ether]

Manifold won't get my factory on 100% efficiency right?

[median heath]

Why would it not?

Why do you think manifolds don't achieve 100%?

(I am not being accusatory, I'm trying to help you learn)

[primal flicker]

Manifolds just have a saturation time associated with them to reach 100% efficiency.

[formal ether]

Because in my mind it floods the assemblers until they are full. And then continue to the next one. That doesn't sound very efficient to me. But I guess in the end when everything is running it will. I wasn't sure if that had an effect on the efficiency. (My second world, my first world that I made a year ago was a very big mess. Want to do some very efficient stuff now. xD)

[median heath]

If nodes ever ran out or stopped, your logic is completely sound.

You have to remember that resources are infinite in this game. So if it fills, moves on, fills, moves on - eventually that is all full and operating at 100%

You can skip the fill time entirely by prefeeding the system and then you have 100% eff from the moment of startup.

Manifolds and balancers are completely equal in terms of output and efficiency.
It is a matter of preference.
Most people end up preferring manifolds because they are simpler to build and the only math involved is "am I supplying the total amount needed?"

[formal ether]

That's fair. I'm making it more difficult then needed. I do find manifolds a bit less satisfying. But I can always hide them underground.

[median heath]

Sushi manifolds are more satisfying 😁

[formal ether]

I'll look into it. Thanks for the help.

[prisma kraken]

you manifold when it makes sense to, when you're dealing with 5 and 7 way splits, oft times its just a lot simpler to use a manifold because splitting in those prime numbers is messy and space consuming

something else to point out to you with your mod frame factory, since it works on a 5-way split, is that 5-way splits can be turned into 4-way splits if you clock the consumers to 125%

and of course, same also applies to turning it into a 2-way split for the clockrate of 250%

[sacred orbit]

i really love this clean set up for exactly 120 ore in, reinforced plates out without manifolding. does anyone have a structure like this for Rotors?

[median heath]

This is my BP for RIPs, with is 60 Ingots in, 5 RIPs out. (x2 = what you have)

This is Rotors:

45 in, 4 out

[sacred orbit]

that doesn't fit the 120 in i'm looking for. i'm only up to MK2 belts

[median heath]

Base Rotor recipe needs 45, that doesn't cleanly go into 120.
So either pick a different recipe, or (something I highly recommend) don't force 120 as the constraint.

If you need only 90 to supply something, draw out 90.
Don't force the use of 120 "just because"

[sacred orbit]

i mean, i COULD, at the current point i'm at, unlock overclocking so that i could underclock a miner

could also try to find an alternate Rotor Recipe

[median heath]

So many large builds need something like 1195 iron to look clean as fuck, but people get hung up on "but I can pull out 1200 at this spot" and wrack their brains trying to deal with 5 ore for... no reason.

[median heath]

Definitely recommend.
I have over/underclocking unlocked ASAP just for dealing with the base Concrete recipe.

(By either underclocking a normal to 75% to feed 1 Constructor or overclocking it to 150% to feed 2)

(Pure would be underclock to 75% to feed 2)

To round it back to Rotors - underclock to 90 as your output will perfectly feed 2 lines of them.
Which matches your 2 lines of RIPs.

[sacred orbit]

i can think of one big reason: upscaling. building multiple copies of one blueprint. with your 45 rotor thing, you COULD build a TON of them so that, overall, you need 360 input divided up amongst all of them, then use three inputs of 120, thus avoiding overclocking, but that sort of setup isn't viable early game.

[median heath]

This is still solving forwards though.
You're making X amount of Rotors based on "I have 360 input"
Instead of "I want Y amount of Rotors, how much input do I need for that?"

[sacred orbit]

when someone comes to a situation like this, they have A: just underclock and not stress, or B: "how many iterations of this am i going to need to make efficient use of all of the excess ore?" and some people just get stuck on B.

[median heath]

Tip: Don't have excess ore.

If you need 90, pull 90.
Zero excess.

Pulling 120 just because you can = excess.

[sacred orbit]

at the point i'm at, it's not "i need X rotors, how much input is that?", it's "i need infinity rotors and have X input, how many can i get out with what i got?"

once i get to making Smart Plates, then i'll worry about it your way.

[median heath]

You need 0.1/min
You want more than that.

So want is a number you can definitively decide upon, and solve backwards from.

There is nothing wrong with solving forwards, just to clarify.
It is a valid way of doing things.

Just tends to be a common source of problems from people that is fixed by solved from the other end of the chain.

If you want tips on solving forwards with less headache, @true junco is your guy.

[sacred orbit]

ok. what i want right now is just rotors. period. i just need a raw, consistent, fast output of rotors for uses wherever.

[viral veldt]

Idk I tend to build forwards, I say I have so many resources and work out how many things I can make at the end

[median heath]

Using 90 is the simplest way to accomplish that because the math and building counts are clean AF.
So it will be consistent and fast to set up.

[viral veldt]

Oh yeah I should've read your whole message first lol

[sacred orbit]

is this four out per minute?

[median heath]

If it works for you, it works.
Not something I will ever recommend though.

[median heath]

Yes. 45 feeds an Assembler at 100%, which is 4/min
So 90 would be 8/min.

You will have to adjust the building counts for yourself though, as those BPs use shards to maximized space saved.

[viral veldt]

My mind could change as I go farther into the game (past stage 2 of the elevator) but I think for early game it makes more sense to work forwards and maximize the inputs you have available

Since early game you just need to put out as much material as possible to reach objectives and such

[sacred orbit]

shards?

[median heath]

🤷‍♂️

[viral veldt]

And I just have such a hard time thinking backwards lol

[median heath]

Overclocking on the Constructors.

[median heath]

You have difficulty deciding "I want to make 20 Modular Frames"?

[sacred orbit]

ugh... text on the diagram would be a great thing to show what the constructors are set to

[median heath]

Sec, I think I have that.

[sacred orbit]

do you have a bigger screenshot that doesn't necessarily need to fit into a blueprint and shows how the ore is being input?

[median heath]

Ore input is just bottom right into the single splitter.

All of my Iron-only BPs are designed via single-input.

[sacred orbit]

from the smelters

[median heath]

Combine all, put into single injection point.

[sacred orbit]

like how this design goes from ore to ingots to crafters

[median heath]

You're going to be adjusting building counts anyways, so I can just try to give you the numbers you'll need for a similar layout.

[sacred orbit]

i could prototype something i have in mind

hold up

[median heath]

3 Smelters for Ingots
6 Constructors for Rods
5 Constructors for Screws
2 Assemblers for Rotors

2/3 Rod Constructor per Screw Constructor (which can be done by immediately splitting and recombining)

[sacred orbit]

input of 90 ore, three smelters, two of your blueprints.

[median heath]

Looks solid.

[sacred orbit]

aw heck, now i'm just seeing a dude grabbing his schmeat...

curse my brain

gonna go lock myself away for a moment.

[sacred orbit]

do you perhaps have a design that does not use overclocking?

[viral veldt]

The trouble lies in deciding how many I'll want

[median heath]

Not personally.

But the numbers above are not OC'd

[viral veldt]

Because I'm always afraid of underestimating that number

[median heath]

Sandbox games are built on you making your own decisions about what you want to do.

If "the trouble lies" in doing that... I have questions.

[sacred orbit]

the blueprint you shared for rotors does.

[median heath]

Yes, because I personally DO NOT have one that uses overclocking.

[sacred orbit]

basically your worry is "aww heck, this isn't fast enough now

[viral veldt]

The trouble lies in that because I'd rather produce as many of an item with the nodes I have available

[viral veldt]

Yeah exactly

[median heath]

3 Smelters for Ingots
6 Constructors for Rods
5 Constructors for Screws
2 Assemblers for Rotors
2/3 Rod Constructor per Screw Constructor (which can be done by immediately splitting and recombining)

So "the numbers above" are not OC'd.

[sacred orbit]

gotcha

[median heath]

You will have to break from this eventually.
Given there is 74k iron on the map. And "Produce as many as nodes available" will melt your PC before you ever accomplish it from that metric.

[viral veldt]

The "nodes available" number is a much different value than "nodes that are reasonable for use"

Until I get trains I can't set up factories that are hugely far away and effectively get the resources from them

[median heath]

Truck Stops exist.

[sacred orbit]

the 2/3 rod thing means 2/3s of all the rods produced need to become screws, correct? so four inputs of rods into five screw constructors?

[median heath]

Yes.

[sacred orbit]

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/balancers there's no 4>5 balancer...

aww man...

[snow dove]

4 1:5 splitters, and a lot of mergers

[sacred orbit]

do you think two of these would work?

[median heath]

Or

Just 1:1 five of the Constructors by doing the immediate split and remerge thing.
And hook all the 1/3rd's together with the 6th Constructor.

[sacred orbit]

confused... think i need a visual...

[median heath]

Immediate split then remerge, 2/3 going one way, 1/3 going the other.

[sacred orbit]

is that diagonal setup better than having the two of them in a straight line?

[median heath]

If you do 2 splitters in a straight line you aren't getting thirds.

Like you could put the merger in-line and connect it to 2 of the outputs to still get the 2/3 : 1/3 split if you wanted.

[true junco]

"tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward; upward, not forward; and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom!" -Kang

Sorry, not sorry.

[sacred orbit]

that's what i was saying. does the length of the belts between the splitter and merger somehow affect the ratio?

[median heath]

No.

2 outputs from a splitter is 2 outputs.

[sacred orbit]

in the top example, i'd think the top example would get more rods through to merger from the shorter belt than from the longer belt.

[sacred orbit]

i suppose what would happen though is you'd just have more rods on the longer belt at one time

[median heath]

Maybe. But in terms of production that isn't really relevant 🤷‍♂️
You're supplying the correct numbers. It will work.

[sacred orbit]

yeah.

[median heath]

Could put the merger 20 foundations away and it wouldn't matter.

[sacred orbit]

just curious, how many meters long and wide are foundations?

[median heath]

8x8xSelectedHeight

[sacred orbit]

thought so.

[scenic moat]

Why?

[true junco]

Freeform will do that. 😆

[scenic moat]

https://tenor.com/view/so-close-but-so-far-the-boys-gif-18221635

[twilit blade]

practicality question: i have several iron miners not being used to full capacity, and their leftover capacities almost precisely add up to what i need for another factory. should i 1) figure out a prime splitter config for each to give me the 2/5, 1/5, and 3/10 ratios i need, or 2) just slap a smart splitter on each and depend on the Overflow to supply the new factory?

[true junco]

Overflow 100% of the time imo.

[prisma kraken]

probably the 2nd option makes more sense, but you may also want to revisit how you're grouping the outputs and see if something simpler can be done

another option just to toss it on the table is to insert some iron smelters on the line before it goes to the factory and siphons off the excess before it overflows with a smart splitter manifold, i do just that in a few places to pull somethink like 330 off of a 600 line before it goes to an early game factory consuming 270

[vapid gorge]

Yeah you could probably do some quick math to only overflow fewer? But even then maybe not so 2

[fallow vector]

how tall is Snutt if that's an 8x8 tile?

[oblique hollow]

4m

[fallow vector]

you sure? he looks toddler sized?

[oblique hollow]

warped perspective

actually hold on

thats not an 8m foundation

thats a foundation frame with walkways inserted

so its only 4 m wide

so snutt is about 1.8 m here

or if it is a foundation, its just a quarter of that

[deft lichen]

pretty sure that's a whole foundation

metal foundations have only one "cross"

[oblique hollow]

well then it is just warped perspective and snutt is about 3.8 m

[deft lichen]

compared to the walkway corner in the back, which is 1/4 of a foundation

[oblique hollow]

dont you mean 1/2

it takes 2 of them to cover one side of a foundation

[vagrant hedge]

1/2 side length and 1/4 area 🙂

[river night]

it takes 4 to cover a whole foundation, hence 1/4th

[primal flicker]

Giant Snutt, 12 ft tall 😱

[primal flicker]

OK weird question:
How hazardous, really, is plutonium waste?
There's a lot of ways to state the answer. But it's definitely "VERY".
What I'm wondering is,
How much of it would you have to store, at ground level, near the center of the map, for radiation to be felt practically everywhere?

[novel delta]

https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Radiation

[novel delta]

@primal flicker 2,141,700,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000~ for center of map,
236,420,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 for corner of map
🌕 〰️ 🌕

edit: actually this is wrong, idk how vertically different you can be, this assumes player is at identical height zz
and also by "felt" i choose to go with "capped on radiation damage with 4 significant orders of precision"
10^33*9.5185 barrels would be minimum damage at center
but, basically this
https://www.desmos.com/calculator/jflbnhhbcx

[river night]

I assume this also assumes that all waste is collected in a singularity in one spot? 😄

[novel delta]

yes, i don't know how they merge for calculation... difference of a few meters doesn't matter much tho

i.e. do a literal pile of barrel items on the ground all just calculate independently ? and add together total affecting player individually?

which would mean they don't gain distance as a group

but in a box with enormous stack sizes and slots ? they combine powers i assume

[river night]

in general though, storage is not an insurmountable problem if you want to do it - plenty have. you can easily put up enough containers for a literal year of playtime, its just effort

[leaden depot]

I've made a huge mistake. I started this build in the desert when I was using the magic machines mod for water. Now I'm back to vanilla, and I need to figure out how to get 88 full pipes of water up here:

[oblique hollow]

I would simply accept my fate and die of dehydration here

[mystic moon]

Or bring it in by rail but that'd be a pretty massive setup

You'd need an even 50 stations

[leaden depot]

that's a lot of pipes to run. I think I can get the water from below the east cliffs.

but that pipe work is gonna kill me.

[primal flicker]

Clip the wall holes. It'll take up just over half the space.

[leaden depot]

Just doing this one segment, A few misclicks have already made it hell. I accidentally connected around the back side of one, and had to delete a bunch to rebuild it. Doing that with double density sounds crappy.

Maybe smart mod will be mandatory

but my mod loader is broken, and I don't want to figure it out.

yeah, I don't hate the wall holes. Its worth the space savings.

[primal flicker]

I like diagonal clipping for pipe bundles. It conceals well and is still doable to select the correct ones.

[leaden depot]

I'm just gonna have to use scim to raise the whole factory like 8m to accomidate pipe fan-out underneath

[primal flicker]

🤣💀

[leaden depot]

It doesn't look so bad clipped:

[leaden depot]

Only a few really shameful spots in the hub splitting 88 into 8 groups of 11:

[ebon crater]

I think 2.5 cluster per min and 5 explosive rebar should be enough right?

[leaden depot]

I mean, you can always go bigger. But that oughta keep you armed if you let it run a while.

[median heath]

MOAR

[ebon crater]

fair enough. however, this factory is going to replace my beginner steel factory

which is pretty pitiful rn

[median heath]

And by that I mean, I think my munitions outpost makes 5/min of every Nob except nuke.

[ebon crater]

oh wow

I havent even used the new ammunitions yet lmao

[median heath]

Turbo Ammo ftw.

[ebon crater]

oh. wait. I can make turbofuel now.

i am already importing oil and sulfur...

hmmmm

ah. but I would need to transport recources from two different sides of the map for allu and rifle ammo

[median heath]

I do munitions at the sulfur node in the northwest of DD.

[ebon crater]

idk where that is

[median heath]

In the northwest of DD silly 😉😉

[ebon crater]

idk what DD is....

[median heath]

Dune Desert?

[ebon crater]

ah ok

i just know it as desert

I never go there

[median heath]

But there are 2 deserts.

RD and DD.

[ebon crater]

rock desert and desert

[deft lichen]

rocky desert, dune desert, desert canyons, pick one 😛

[ebon crater]

i dont think im gonna make turbo ammo its gonna be too much of a hassle atm.

[median heath]

😭

Deliver Casings via Drone that also brings the Turbo back to you.

[ebon crater]

drones are lame

they use batteries

I dont have those yet. dont even have drones unlocked

[prisma kraken]

you might want to run it from the desert cliffs on down, its a bit further of a distance, but you'll not have to worry about headlift

[median heath]

😭

[ebon crater]

😔

[leaden depot]

I'm not sure I can fit 176 water extractors on the desert cliffs 🙂

Is there a way to know for sure my headlift is ok from a water extractor? There's a few where I can't get a pump on the line until a little higher than I would like to. Water is flowing, but I want to make sure it can go at full speed.

[median heath]

Overclock them so you need less.

[leaden depot]

that is overclocked 🙂

[true junco]

Are you the one who built a giant thirsty factory in the middle of the dune desert using mods and are now trying to quench the thirst without mods?

[leaden depot]

yes. I'm an idiot

[true junco]

Lol

Well. If it helps. You dont actually have to put pumps for every pipe.

Example.

I built dozens of water extractors in the lake in the box canyon in the western dune forest. And I put 1 extractor in the elevated lake. The elevated extractor has a manifold with every branch with a valve set to some minimal value. (Forget what, but it was mk1 pipe 300m³ divided by 255, rounded up or something...)

That manifold tied into every manifolded set of extractors in the lower lake. The system once saturated took on the headlift of the line coming from the upper lake.

Tldr:

pipe system saturated with liquid, should take on the headlift of the highest contributer. Note that buffers can screw this up.

[oblique hollow]

note that U8 puts a slight bit more damping on that it seems?
so you can no longer go quite the same height as you could with the original head lift
Needs more testing though

[true junco]

Hmmm. Do you think perhaps its averaging? Or maybe they tweaked the viscosity/friction factors in their simulations... tho that should only effect speed, not headlift. Really the only thing that should stop headlift from working as predicted in SF is airpocketing... but as far as i can tell up until now the game has ignored any existing atmosphere in pipes. Like it just pretends the whole system is 100% relieved to atmosphere but is still 100% "water tight"

[leaden depot]

Well I've got the first plants wired up and appear to be working. All the pumps are toward the very bottom, since the top of the cliffs are around the same height as the generators.

[prisma kraken]

man, that's a lot of Dihydrogen monoxide, lol

nice use of that cliffside though, people rarely tap the sippy there

[prisma kraken]

have any data regarding this?

i think i noticed that my coal plant was doing weird things in one of the patch releases with mk1 pumps shutting off with 'headlift exceeded' early in my playthrough

[oblique hollow]

best i can share is a theory i made in here:
https://discord.com/channels/370472939054956546/1174954053650894980

but without official confirmation from G2, its all just that: theory

[prisma kraken]

thanks for the link, i just read through

tbh, shared headlift has been wonky since update 5 or 6, to the point i changed how i build coal to not rely on it ever

its just always 1 pump per pipe and i'll eat the power cost rather than fiddling with the pipes to get the power plant online

what i found was a little strange is that when i built this plant a few updates on experimental ago, the pumps sometimes flaked on hitting their headlift limit:

nothing very fancy there, and should have been under the 20m mk1's provide, but i caught them cutting on & off several times... this was back when they were still zebra pipes though, so who knows what changed when

[leaden depot]

I'm considering something very silly, but I think it might work. I'm making lots of fused quickwire. I have 36 assemblers overclocked that take ~88 ingots / min of mixed cat and copper.

I kinda want to balance all of the ingots into 6 mixed belts (~528/m each), and feed 6 assemblers with a single belt.

Is that gonna jam instantly, or should I be ok as long as the input ratio stays constant?

[primal flicker]

Smart splitters plus an overflow sink to prevent jams. Sushi ftw.

[leaden depot]

I only want one belt into each machine, so if it gets a bad ratio it could jam, right?

so I'd need two smart splitters on each machine from the mixed line?

[primal flicker]

Yes, one to each input.

It works be very reliably if you set it up correctly, with only the occasional off-ratio item getting to the Sink.

[sacred orbit]

which recipe is more useful, Cast Screws or Copper Rotors?

[snow dove]

subjective

[prisma kraken]

cast screw is very useful early game for rips & rotors, copper rotor is good late game when coupled with steel screw & steamed copper sheet

cast screw isn't any more resource efficient than rod->screw, but it saves power and machine counts

its honestly the first recipe i look for in the early game for the power savings in making rips & rotors, but it is quickly outclassed by other alts, so tl;dr it depends on where you are in the game progression

[leaden depot]

Cast screw is great. I will also rush to find it before I even need screws if possible.

[median heath]

Long term goes to Copper Rotor as once you hit T3-4 Cast Screw gets completely outclassed by the 2 steel alternates for making Screw.

Cast is great if it is something you acquire very early in T1-2.

[sacred orbit]

where is the suggestions link?

[brisk shore]

Satisfactory Questions

You can send Questions, Feedback, Suggestions, and Bug Reports
https://questions.satisfactorygame.com
<3 @median heath

[median heath]

Be sure to search to see if what you have in mind has been suggested before.

[sacred orbit]

hecc... i didn't...

[median heath]

😬

[dull turtle]

hey every time i try to open sadisfactory it crashes after i get to the round thing in the loading screen'
is there any thing i can do?

[main dirge]

...since rain was removed doesn't that technically make the entire map a single giant desert?

[median heath]

It would eventually become such.
But it hasn't been removed long enough for that transformation, and it will be back before things go bad.

[main dirge]

I'll pray for fertile fields and a bountiful harvest in update 9

[median heath]

I pray for no Update 9 and just U8 -> 1.0

[main dirge]

I'd guessed we see the remaining map changes and maybe the rebalance first for bugtesting but idk if there's anything on it

[median heath]

All of which could reasonably be done on 1.0 Exp

🤷‍♂️

[dull turtle]

geta

fife

[supple belfry]

Anyone see an obvious solution to this? I have this little modular setup I tried for Instant Aluminum Scrap, but it keeps getting stopped up; near as I can tell the refinery isn't taking in water quick enough to make room for the next "glug" out of the blender, and the whole circuit seizes up. Any creative insights into how I might make it work?

[median heath]

Wait... why is the piping so complicated?

Instant's output is exactly the amount needed for Sulfuric.
So that should just be 1 pipe from out to in.

Not sure why all the extra stuff is going on.

[supple belfry]

Just trying to make sure the excess water gets prioritized.

[median heath]

There shouldn't be any priority.
Just 1 pipe.

[supple belfry]

Do I just unhook the input?

[median heath]

Output water from Blender hooked into Refinery.

[supple belfry]

Huh, OK. But the blender still needs water input.

[median heath]

Yes.

[supple belfry]

That helps. Thank you. I knew I wasn't seeing something obvious.

[median heath]

👍

[median heath]

You may wish to inject some water into the Blender->Refinery pipe before startup, just to fill it.
But then you delete the injection point.

[supple belfry]

Right.

I will need to prime that circuit.

[median heath]

Aye.

[supple belfry]

Just tweaked it and it works a treat. Thanks again!

[median heath]

👍 💛

[frosty owl]

It's possible using one belt per machine too, but as you guessed you would need to provide the inputs with constant rates (not too much, not too little) to avoid clogging.
In other words: only single-item belts (leading to a machine's inputs) allow for overflow management.

[balmy birch]

.

[fierce ruin]

hey does anyone have that handy pdf about coal and water pipes? I remember it being a very detailed explanation on how stuff works, but i can not seem to find it

edit: found it

[fierce ruin]

As a starter i am quite proud of this neat looking structure that i built for 10 RIP / per minute.
However, since everything should be at 100% efficiency, there is no manifold effect or whatever that it called. So there are a lot of yellow lights. What is the easiest solution here? just stuffing the smelters with 100 iron each? or is there more to be done before i start overthinking

wait a minute i didnt convert a tiny piece of the mk1 belt to mk2 from the mine oops

[fierce ruin]

Also wondering if i could have been more space efficient and how, for 2 assemblies i find this to take up quite a lot of space

[true junco]

It can certainly be more compact, but for a beginner its fine, and so long as it gets the job done, there is nothing wrong with it.

[fierce ruin]

good to know thank you!