math-and-meta

[rain swift]

hmm. interesting.

So in this case, it produces a silica byproduct, where the alt recipe does not. Would the tool consider the byproduct a valued asset?

[wind spade]

you can always force a recipe by disabling the other ones

[rain swift]

yes. Though I'm more curious than anything

[wind spade]

no, the tool doesn't value byproducts in any way

though it may try to use the byproducts if it's beneficial

[rain swift]

strange then, that it did not take the sloppy alumina option.

[wind spade]

could you share the link?

[rain swift]

mmm how do I get the link? It just says https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/production

[wind spade]

press the blue share button in the production line

[rain swift]

https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=ONLPLexwEzNtDn3whCnR

[wind spade]

I assume it may be better because it uses the silica byproduct as well? for silicon CBs

[rain swift]

yes. That's what I was wondering because it seems to be valuing the byproduct.

saves quartz in the world I imagine

[wind spade]

well not valuing the byproduct

but reduces total resource usage

[rain swift]

yeah. Okay that makes sense. Very interesting.

Also, does the tool do its processing locally on the browser or from a server? It's very fast.

[wind spade]

top is with default alumina solution, bottom is with sloppy

[rain swift]

wow that is a hell of a bauxite difference

[wind spade]

seems that it saves bauxite but costs more caterium and oil

though it may have changed more than just that single recipe

[wind spade]

it uses remote API for calculations. I've been experimenting with browser-based calculations, but didn't manage to find a good library for it

(well I found one recently and it seems promising, I just didn't want to do some big changes now when I don't have time)

[rain swift]

it's fascinating because it can see things not readily apparent from just looking at the recipe and guessing.

Like here for example, I have the Solid Steel recipe, which I would have thought is better than the Coke steel recipe. Also I have steel screws, which it decided not to use.

[wind spade]

yeah, it's just pure math, but surprises me many times

steel screws cost slightly more steel than steel rod + base screws

[rain swift]

ahh

[wind spade]

(the advantage of steel screws is their great speed)

[rain swift]

so the real key here is to keep in mind other advantages of recipes besides resource usage

[wind spade]

yeah

in the future versions the tool will be able to optimise towards different parameters (e.g. power or building count), but it's still up to the player to validate if the production is what they want to build or not

[rain swift]

Does it try at all to keep energy costs down? I'm guessing not.

oh you were just saying that

I suppose there could be some kind of user options to put weight on things like that.

[wind spade]

no it doesn't. Power is not really considered (but in the future version, I'm planning to add "also produce power for the production line" checkbox, which would basically calculate if the few saved resources from using more optimal recipes are worth it if it means more power usage (and hence more resource usage for producing power)

[rain swift]

nice

It reminds me of mapping software that will take you a long distance out of your way to save a very short amount of total driving time. Hard for software to intuitively understand what trade is worth it.

[wind spade]

I'll probably be playing with weights on certain goals as well

e.g. 75% weight on resource efficiency and 25% weight on power

[topaz hedge]

You can also check off/uncheck the recipes you want the program to use if you already know beforehand how you want to produce the end product.

[vapid nest]

Made my first factory that isn't just copy paste off of a youtuber. It's a production chain for steel beams and steel pipes. Steel beams: 30/min Steel pipes: 80/min. 2 normal iron nodes with Mk.2 Miners and 1 pure cole node with a Mk.2 Miner. Had to improvise, happy it works.

[rain swift]

found one I'm really wondering about.
When making Automated Wiring, given the choice between the default recipe and the "Automated Speed Wiring" recipe, the FST chooses the default recipe despite using far more resources than the 'speed' alt.
Here is the default recipe, making 45 product:

And here is with the alt recipe:

oh blast. the caterium... is it because that's such a high percentage of the world supply?

[magic island]

yep, caterium is considered more valuable because it's rarer

[unborn ermine]

Yeah, for moments like that, if you skip steps and toss in a bulk quickwire number into your inputs it will choose to use that up before going back to default.

That is if you are inclined to use that recipe.

[magic island]

I still favour caterium recipes anyway. it's rare because it's real good, and I'm not the type of player to get even close to the world limit of any resource, so I've got no issue hitting up more nodes

and Speed Wiring is nice because the manufacturers end up 1:1 with the AC Unit manufacturers

[muted goblet]

Is there any tip in which speed i should plan my next higher tier items? Like Radio Control unit and supercomputers.. should i plan them with like 2/min because its just for storage and building stuff or is it better to get like 10/min out because i will need them again? Like i know computers to build with is enough if i get like 2/min for just building supply, but theyre needed in other stuff so i have to add onto it.

For reference: im planning a factory that does most of the computer stuff, like circuit boards, computers, High speed connectors, radio unit, supercomputer

[unborn ermine]

Hmm, well, wiki might get you going?
Finding the common denominator for the crafting ect.

[muted goblet]

Yeah thats my next step and started doing that. Looking up, what i need it for and deciding how much i wanna produce of it

[vapid gorge]

if you're just at the start of making them and want to plan bigger factories later on I just make 4 or 5 of each end tier thing and let them fill up buffers while doing other things.

Even 2 a minute of the end parts adds up fast while you're out and about

[muted goblet]

Im kinda planning bigger factories now to make them pretty and give me enough stuff, so a lot of pre-planning im doing rn

[sullen cloud]

well, you will need more computers, supercomputers and rcus later. But those numbers will again depend on the production output figures you want for those items

[wind spade]

don't plan for future, plan for now

you can always build more later

[vapid gorge]

I tend to not like doing that unless I have a grander plan in mind

[cinder silo]

I'm building most more complicated items with 2-4 overflow to send to storage, rest just to other manufacturing processes.

I don't need 400ppm spare and all that, I just want my main base working once again after I got a little dynamite happy with demolitions.

Once all that is back up and running, I'll go to another spot on the map and do a proper job of thermal propulsion rockets, not the spaghetti nightmare LGIO version I used to do the space elevator phase 4 with.

[unborn ermine]

I think when I do super computers/SE parts, its going to be 1-2 computers/min to storage/sink.

[cinder silo]

My setup will be sending 3.75 super computers to stores, then overflow to sink, just two manufacturers on that job.

[unborn ermine]

For my factory, pretty much the same, just .75 less

[cinder silo]

I'm balancing my quartz intake right now, just enough crystals & silica to handle my oscillator needs and a handful left over to send to the warehouse, I got lucky though, my unplanned mining and the 10k belt from the dunes to grassy fields could have cost me big time.

[rain swift]

Hrmmm. Steel Coated Plate offers a SERIOUS reduction in iron consumption for regular iron plates.
The cost is a little bit of plastic and coal.
Worth it? Plates are a high demand item.
But this is a 92.6% drop in iron requirement.

[cinder silo]

Steel coated then adhered for reinforced looks promising but I have a large refinery sitting next door.

[rain swift]

yeah. could be amazing. Just not sure if tapping plastic for regular iron plates is a good idea

[vapid gorge]

It's very solid but I also don't have anything requiring so many iron plate that cutting a simplifying step for Coated Iron Plate wouldn't be fine

[wind spade]

coated and adhered plates are technically most resource efficient (considering weighted resources), but it's up to a player if they value the benefits more than the disadvantages

[cinder silo]

Cutting the cost of iron for the sake of it isn't that important, it's abundant, in my case I'm hoping to skip an ironworks at all, so foundries feeding the sum total of old iron production leaves me with one less step and just steel ingots to worry about.

[rain swift]

yes iron is very abundant. But man it's hard to ignore a near 93% reduction 😄

[vapid gorge]

the other thing is - there's a butt ton of iron everywhere.

[wind spade]

global vs local limits 🤷‍♂️

[unborn ermine]

local limits

[cinder silo]

I'm in the dunes, there is iron for days.

[vapid gorge]

I think I've also accidentally near cut Iron Plates from my system

[rain swift]

I guess it depends on how many bazillion regular plates one plans on making

like you can cut screws out almost entirely, making amazingly efficient screw recipes useless

[unborn ermine]

I think Iron is the one material that is exempt from "local limits" besides grassy, and thats still a LOT of crappy nodes.

[cinder silo]

Some of my output is intended to trickle in to stores, I haven't come up with an improved reinforced frame production yet, my old one was imbalanced to hell.

[vapid gorge]

ok so I haven't cut them out, but my crazy ass master plan which may never get finished only needs 3200 pm

[wind spade]

if you've already used all your nearby iron, then it's still valid local limit 🤷‍♂️

[rain swift]

though chances are high that if you're out of iron you also don't have plastic.

[magic island]

the main appeal of steel coated plate isn't really the iron efficiency, it's the ability to cut out iron ingots and work exclusively with steel

[rain swift]

that's a fair point

[vapid gorge]

my world spanning plan doesn't even use Pure Iron Ingots and I'm swimming in excess iron

[vapid gorge]

Iron Wire 4 Life

[rain swift]

I need to pick up the steel rod recipe for that exclusive idea

[cinder silo]

That's my goal, steel screws should any be needed (probably not) steel rods because I burn thousands of them in building,

[vapid gorge]

You'd still probably want to make Iron Ingots for Solid Steel recipe? I find it less fiddly than others

[rain swift]

yes I have solid steel but haven't built anything with it yet

[magic island]

yeah, but it still simplifies things in that all your iron ingots just go to the steelworks and don't have to be worked into the production factory

[rain swift]

^

I do like this idea a lot

[unborn ermine]

Solid steel is great for some production lines, one foundry to a constructor for beams, and 5 for screws if needed.

[rain swift]

no shipping iron ingots via train at all. Just make steel next door to iron ingot maker

[cinder silo]

I'll probably wind up with large scale steel soon, I freed up four normal coal nodes when I finally took down my old coal power station in the dunes 😄

[unborn ermine]

Will be doing the same soon

Might leave the one by the water though, not sure.

its just too perfectly placed.

(cliffside in the corner) I posted a screenie of the SCIM a while ago.

[cinder silo]

I took almost all of my coal out now, there are a couple of exceptions because those tiny power stations are there to sink water after a vip failure in critical buildings.

[sullen cloud]

Last time I needed coal based power production was in U2. Good ol‘ times without water needed.

[cinder silo]

Most of my power is nuclear, the combined acid refinery didn't play nice so the coal based water sink was added.

[wind spade]

water is fine 🙂

[rain swift]

Wait, what about iron wire? Going to need to send ingots there.

@wind spade might it be possible to import and export recipe profiles? That would be super handy to be able to enter all the recipes one owns and then update it later, resaving it, rather than entering it all over again.

[wind spade]

you can make empty production line with your recipes and then clone that one when you need a new one

but yeah some sort of export/import for stuff is planned

[rain swift]

nice

[magic island]

Personally, I'm one of those WP-ignoring heathens who uses Caterium Wire and can't be bothered with Iron Wire. :p

[versed violet]

Caterium wire is more power efficient. And more convenient.
Until you use up all the nodes in the world, then you start looking at copper.

[magic island]

as always, the asterisk in WP is that it's only a guideline for proportionate use, and if you're playing at a small/medium scale where you're not gonna run out of anything, WP doesn't matter so much

[unborn ermine]

Its all fun and games until Greeny is right about alt recipes

[magic island]

caterium wire factory go brrr

[fringe pawn]

My 40/40/10/10 factory uses caterium or iron wire only. And both quickwire recipes. Based on what's closest, and how much wire or quickwire is needed.

[kindred plover]

Hey guys, anyone here have a killer recycled setup? The ideal setup is crude oil = x 3 plastic or rubber right?

[deft lichen]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=lXeozktasAVZIGZi6WrC

[kindred plover]

Cheers!

[little heron]

about halfway done with my iron stuff factory :)

[glacial summit]

I think you should use simple mode

[little heron]

:scp

what no external emotes

[glacial summit]

just use manifold

[little heron]

shit, I just switched it to simple for a sec and now I lost the page

you have to be fucking kidding me

I had everything arranged and checked

now I don't know which is which

[glacial summit]

Use your screen idk

Sorry

[little heron]

it's ok

I've got it worked out

[glacial summit]

Nice

[white isle]

Question: With manifolds is it better to use the same belt the entire way down or downgrade as accordingly? So for example I have 18 constructors making wire, which consumes 270 copper ingots, should I use mk3 belts the whole way or go down to mk2, then mk1? I've been doing the latter but I've started wondering if that's worth it.

[median heath]

Thing fills either way 🤷‍♂️

[patent briar]

There is a different tab I prefer for info breakdown it's uh...

Items

Let's me see what I just gotta be making total, not divided up across end results

[wind spade]

It's not, use max belt everywhere

[rain swift]

Instant Scrap: Is it as terrible as it looks? Skips the alumina solution stage but requires sulfuric acid. At first glance, this seems like a pretty bad recipe but I'm not sure.

[wind spade]

cost to make 600 scrap:

instant: 300 bauxite, 200 coal, 100 sulfur
vanilla: 333 bauxite, 200 coal
electrode (+ sloppy): 300 bauxite, 120 coke (= 30 oil)
electrode: 360 bauxite, 120 coke

Instant is... not as bad. If you don't want to add oil, it can save you some bauxite

[jolly mirage]

Is there a hierarchy for the alternative recipes? New to the game and trying to decide between: copper rottor, steeled fram or pure iron. I suspect pure iron isn't worth it right now but undecided on the last two

[wind spade]

there's no rating really (at least none that would be objective). Every recipe has it's own advantages and disadvantages and you have to decide what is worth to you and what isn't

[unborn ermine]

aka greeny's blanket statement

Pure is mostly used late game to squeeze resources.

Copper rotor is surprisingly good for what it is, especially if you have other alts for screws.

[wind spade]

copper rotor is most resource efficient rotor if combined with steamed sheets and pure copper
steeled frame adds steel to modular frame production
pure iron makes more ingots out of same ore

[unborn ermine]

And with adding steel to modular frames, there are "better" ways of doing it.

I feel it is best to objectively look at what you absolutely wouldnt want to use first in a hard drive roll list.
Then, deciding what may or may not work better for you at the time with the other options.
of course, this is entirely if you arent doing drives a ton.

[jolly mirage]

I feel looking for a bunch of drives is where I'm currently at, and see what else I get

[white isle]

I use the wiki's analysis page to see which ones are worth using. Just google satisfactory wiki alternative recipes and you should find it.

[wind spade]

you mean that page that literally says

Information in this article may be opinionated. This article is archived and no longer maintained.

[white isle]

Any particular logic to this?

[wind spade]

not sure for main belt, but slower side belts make manifolds fill time longer, therefore you have to wait longer till it works at 100%

[white isle]

Lol never saw that, just skipped down to the actual content.

[wind spade]

slower main belt shouldn't have a big effect on this, but still 🙂

[wind spade]

yeah, don't use that 🙂 and I'd recommend against using any other sources like that. Use the current wiki analysis (on each item's page) to figure out what the recipes do and decide yourself

[unborn ermine]

The thing with alt recipes too, some are just getting the base recipe done of something else much more efficient.
Like iron wire + stitched plates + steel rods to make modular frames.

[wind spade]

steel rods ftw

[unborn ermine]

Glad you understood greeny

[white isle]

Atm for example what I do is something like:
3>>>>>>>2>>>1>>>>

And the more I'm making manifold setups (I used to only do balancers, but am starting to branch out), the more I start to observe but not be entirely sure if doing what I do actually has an effect or I'm just being weird. I assume the same logic applies to outputs as well?

[wind spade]

it has no effect apart from the fill time being slightly longer

[white isle]

Guess I'll just start carrying more stacks of steel beams on me then.

[magic island]

outputs don't need to be merged any particular way, but manifold merging is the easy and obvious route

just use a belt that can carry everything being merged into it, it's v whatever

[unborn ermine]

What happens is just issues if you are BARELY meeting or are veeeery slightly over producing.
Very fast belts can starve out the last few(behind the last machine) in a manifold for a bit before stabilising

The issues can be circumvented by prefilling more or less anyways

[wind spade]

not really, it would work the same

[unborn ermine]

Ive noticed this

why I mentioned it

Prefilling stuff in a production chain or letting it build up before plugging in the next step helps a ton too.

[wind spade]

or just let it fill while you build next step

[unborn ermine]

I have ADHD I think, so I cant do that

I go all over the place so it makes simple things both take longer and seem odd as well.

[magic island]

there are specific cases where a slower side belt can fail to "catch" a full stream of items passing by on a faster main belt. ie, if the source item is being made with a recipe that makes big batches

but if the manifold terminates at the last machine instead of flowing onward, this will resolve itself when the main belt backs up

example: if you run an mk2 belt out of an assembler making fused wire, and split an mk1 side belt to go toward cables, that side belt is not actually gonna get 60/min (not even if you prioritize it with a smart splitter) until the main belt backs up.

bit of an extreme example (it has to do with that recipe's batch size) but the principle can apply to any main belt where the item flow is "choppy"

[vapid gorge]

I like putting slower belts on the feed and outputs - but that's because I generally position machinery and have the items be a feature and it looks better having them move more slowly

[white isle]

Basically where I got that idea is basically when I started playing I was like "If this machine doesn't input/output to a higher belt, why use the higher belt?" As for aesthetics I'm terribad at that crap in any game, I just have a bunch of floating boxed in micro factories.

[vapid gorge]

Higher tier belts can help unclog machines faster if you aren't timing things properly?
As for aesthetics I only got into it whne I started making factories that wouldn't change

and once you get the higher tier belts going it's easier to do it all fastest. Saves swapping out and having to carry different materials

[white isle]

I'm generally good so far with timing things because everything I'm doing so far kinda dead ends. Like I'm setting up an automated wiring and motor factory, The 3 iron miners, 1 copper miner, and 1 coal miner only feed that 1 building. I'm technically "wasting" on 1 of the iron miners because I forgot to calculate the costs of rotors so I have like 140~ iron ingots not doing anything but really I'd rather just prob go back and underclock that miner for the amount I need rather than try to feed the rest of that excess iron somewhere else.

Although I am gonna have to start leaving my region, am running out of nodes >.>

[vapid gorge]

I find it odd you haven't had to leave the region just because you needed nodes not available in it

Even the best corner for it needs to go out for bauxite

[median heath]

Instant = Sloppy + Electrode

Both give you the same maximized amount of Scrap per Bauxite.
Only decision you have to make is which black rock you want to use.

[finite sun]

not only that, you're also spending sulfur

not a lot of it, but still it's a factor if you're wanting drone fleets in your game

[vapid gorge]

It's fine? Generally you have extra sulfur in the world anyway. The only thing that might make it awkward is that there are fewer locations with everything you need nearby so it might require more logistics depending on what you're doing

[finite sun]

the swamp area is fine, it's the only part of the world where bauxite is pretty close to sulfur

[vapid gorge]

the central lake/swamp place has coal sulfur bauxite?

[finite sun]

but it's also not fine because there's no coal in swamp

[vapid gorge]

FAIRLY close

If you like moving things by train and that's not a factor then it's a solid recipe though

[finite sun]

well yeah, but only 1 normal node there

for the amount of bauxite near the central lake it's not much

but I guess it's an easy location for small-scale Al production using instant scrap

come to think about it, it's still a pretty bad recipe
you can save on machines, but whatever you'd save on that you'll likely lose on extra transport as there's literally no compact locations having bauxite, coal, and sulfur all together (merely some that are "close enough")

[vapid gorge]

having fewer refineries is definitely a plus XD
And if you already have the logistics set up for other things - like trains - then the extra transport can be negligible

I think it has fewer occasions to shine. I don't use it personally. But it has it's uses

The way I build though it'll never see the light of day on my map

[wind spade]

saving on machines is different from saving on space

while saving on space is pointless (map is big enough, except if you're going for some sort of compact/nice looking thing), saving on machines means you're saving on power, which means you're saving on resources

[finite sun]

well in case of instant scrap it's actually "space"
machines will be smaller, but resource-wise it's blenders vs refineries and power-wise instant scrap is a bit worse.

blenders are rather power-hungry

[wind spade]

sure, just reacting to your

you can save on machines, but whatever you'd save on that you'll likely lose on extra transport

[vapid gorge]

Don't make me quote Sev. I don't like it, you don't like it, everyone loses.

[wind spade]

there's a difference between saying you can't build something because you don't have enough power and choosing a power efficient path 🤷‍♂️

[finite sun]

Instant scrap kinda meshes pretty well with battery production, but then again there's a (much more efficient) classic battery alt, which, in turn, meshes really well with sloppy+electrode
so instant scrap loses again

[opal lion]

opinions on Infused Uranium Cell and Uranium Fuel Unit? ik they take less uranium but is it really worth using triple the buildings

the recipes are quite tedious as well

[unborn ermine]

I hear the recipes are efficient for what they are, but unfortunately they still use beacons.

[finite sun]

they aren't that bad when you have all the relevant alts unlocked and used

when you already automated some of the most important things like crystal oscillators, then uranium alts are pretty easy to do. But if you're laying them out in full starting from ores - yeah, the production chain is going to get pretty large.

[unborn ermine]

So the fact im starting my game out by essentially maxing out some oscillator production for crystal computers in dune desert "isnt a bad idea"

[finite sun]

it's never bad to go big with crystal oscillators
using the alt recipe, ofc

[unborn ermine]

Yeah, sending rubber from the spiral coast for that
I cant wait till I get my diluted setup going, can ramp that up like nobodies business.

I saw how much you can get outta that recipe and it was well worth the stupidly long belt

[finite sun]

ooooor you could've used a truck

[unborn ermine]

I had things being delivered by belts in tandem as well, factory to factory, ended up just being layer upon layer.

Oil products -> Filter and Caterium plant(AI limiters) -> Copper/Iron facility(for sheets/steamed sheets using that sneaky extractor in the cave) -> completely quartz based computer production and highspeed connectors

[empty glade]

And silicon circuit boards?

[unborn ermine]

All of the above yeah

Was mentioning the other day, with mk2 miners and those two nodes/recipes,
I get 13 assemblers doing 339.17/min silica (cheap silica)
6x48.44 refineries + 3x26.99/min constructors for 339.21/min crystal (pure + constructors).

I think if I do blast the oscillator production up again, I might unironically use that water well up there too

[proven sphinx]

would you guys depend on 600/min flow from a mk2 pipe or go below to be sure?

[sullen cloud]

When you apply all relevant tips to your specific setup of this guide, you can also go with 600 #math-and-meta message

[quartz violet]

long distance, no. but a short distance yeah. if you have to use pipes long distance you could use 2 mk1 pipes

[proven sphinx]

i've got 20 refineries giving me 40 heavy oil residue per, thats 800, im wondering if i want to collect 15x40 in 1 pipe to go to next stage, or if should do 14 instead to be sure , what do you define as "long" ?

[quartz violet]

long is transporting fluids to a factory from wherever

I am a bit biased towards vehichles since they are more fun to set up so take my opinion how you want to

[proven sphinx]

i need to transport it abit away from the factory, cause im building "small" factcories making each their own product

[quartz violet]

how far is it

would it be easier for you to set up a train or use pipes

[proven sphinx]

i havent decided yet because of all the mushrooms i can't remove.. but it's not more than 500 metres top + some incline

[quartz violet]

what mushrooms are they

you can remove most of them

[proven sphinx]

these sh*ts

[quartz violet]

oh

I hate those motherduckers

[proven sphinx]

yea... i have nukes in my pocket, no effect what so ever

[quartz violet]

hmm

try chainsaw

it might do something

[proven sphinx]

i wish

[quartz violet]

well you could always just put foundations over those and use them as supports

just cover them in concrete

[proven sphinx]

yes ofcourse but thats not what i wanted to do.. im gonna have to think about what to do .. but i got a solution, just need to split my factories to small ones

[quartz violet]

dont split your factories in half because of the stupid fungus

[proven sphinx]

nah, im gonna make heavy oil residue in 1 factory , then rubber in one cable in one and just make alot of buildings

[quartz violet]

ok

how much stuff are you moving around?

you could probably make a train loop depending on the scale

[proven sphinx]

true, i'll try pipes first, if i get issues i'll change to trains

[quartz violet]

if you need to transport fluids and items at the same time a train would probably be a bit easier than belts and pipes

again that's depending on the scale of what you are doing

and what the layout of the smaller factories looks like

[proven sphinx]

this is our end goal , we got this stage and caterium left until we are gonna start the main production of those

[quartz violet]

dang

[proven sphinx]

we have made a main train network , so we can just push out more trains the more materials we need, all our factories are connected to the same network

[quartz violet]

I think you pretty much need to use trains if you are doing something at that scale

[proven sphinx]

the problem with using trains to transfere the heavy oil residue would be that im 100% dependent on the polymer resin aswell , so if i cannot get the perfect troughput on the train it will stop making the polymer resin

[quartz violet]

it should give the perfect thruput

you will probably want a bit of a safety buffer though

[median heath]

Imagine automating Project Parts...

[hazy saffron]

These cannot be destroyed

[median heath]

I believe that is why he's calling them shits.

[snow dove]

why i build in open air^

[quartz violet]

horrible indestructible mushrooms

bleh

[median heath]

I would puke but I've been told to stop using those emojis.

[snow dove]

what exactly would you be puking at?

[median heath]

Skybases.

[snow dove]

i add supports

more or less

[median heath]

🤷‍♂️

[finite sun]

automating last space phase is totally fine
if you're not automating it, what the hell you're even doing in the game

[median heath]

Automating things worth automating 😉

[finite sun]

yup
like project parts.

[median heath]

🤢

Worth the risk*

[wind spade]

automated project parts = more tickets 🤷‍♂️

[quartz violet]

tickets dont matter very much if you automate more things that aren't space elevator parts in higher volumes and forget the elevator parts

[wind spade]

any item is a good ticket source, the more complex item, the more points 🤷‍♂️ I don't see a reason to distinguish between project parts and non-project parts

[quartz violet]

project parts aren't useful besides the several hundred you send into space

[wind spade]

hence why they are put into sink

[quartz violet]

you are putting in the effort to automate it specifically so it can get ground down into points and nothing else

[finite sun]

same reason as automating anything else, really

[wind spade]

three out of the four items are the top 3 items in terms of sink points

[quartz violet]

yeah I guess

[wind spade]

and after you research everything, sink points is pretty much the only thing you can go for

[quartz violet]

hmm

[finite sun]

you're putting the effort to automate, say, HMFs why exactly? They are "useful", but you can just produce about a few dozens of industrial storages of them and then stop.

it's not like you need any "useful" part endlessly

[vapid nest]

Greetings, quick question, I have a line of limestone 60 pm, one constructor is not enough but when you have two you need to underclock them. At how much % is that?

[quartz violet]

punch in 45/60 into the parts per minute field

[wind spade]

that's the wrong formula

[quartz violet]

60/45

[wind spade]

60/90 if they have two

[quartz violet]

oh I'm dumb

[wind spade]

or 66.6667%

[quartz violet]

yeah

[vapid nest]

I can only change the clocking speed

[quartz violet]

it should say how many parts per minute it should make at that clockspeed underneath the overclock percentage

[vapid nest]

oh.

[quartz violet]

unless thats only update 6

[median heath]

Underclock the miner to 75%.
No repeating decimals needed.

[wind spade]

no that's been there since a few updates back

[quartz violet]

only 75% of the concrete then

[wind spade]

however technically it's more accurate if you enter the clock speed directly

[vapid nest]

Miner to 75% so that both constructors can run 100%

[median heath]

100% of 1 Constructor then.

[median heath]

75% of 60/min is 1 Constructor.

150% of 60/min is 2.

So if you want 2, just OC the Miner.
Simpler numbers.

And no x.66666666666 imprecision.

[wind spade]

.6667 is fine

[vapid nest]

Both? Or just one?

[median heath]

It's fine until it isn't.

[median heath]

Just put both Constructors at 100% and OC the Miner to 150%.
Keep it simpler.

[wind spade]

if machine is faster, you'll get all the items you planned for. There will be just a brief pause once in a century in the machine's cycle

if ever, as game may not even be that precise

[median heath]

Why do this when you can have it running 100% of the time with my method?

[quartz violet]

round one up and one down for a slightly closer percentage

[wind spade]

because I actually answered question, not provided a different solution 🤷‍♂️

[finite sun]

why have it run 100% of the time and not 99.99999999999999999999999999999999% if the end result is not different?

[wind spade]

and it's not just about this case, it's just in general, repeating numbers are technically less efficient, however I wouldn't care about that and just round up the last percentage number and have it that way

rather than trying to figure out a way to make it with nice numbers

[median heath]

Imprecision leads to inefficiency.

#EfficiencyFirst

[wind spade]

it doesn't matter if the machine is faster than it needs to be

then all the resources are processed as planned

[median heath]

Then it idles

I will uninstall before intentionally having a yellow light on a production machine.

[wind spade]

you won't be able to see that one

[median heath]

I'll know it happens.

That's enough.

[wind spade]

then do .6666 🤷‍♂️

[median heath]

That eventually makes the miner yellow.

Why do imprecise things when you don't have to?

[wind spade]

in 2314 days of gameplay

[median heath]

I'll know.
That's enough.

[wind spade]

or rather, that's just to fill the constructor, the belt between miner and constructor + the miner's storage is not considered

so more likely something around 5k days

so 13.7 years

[median heath]

I'll know.
That's enough.

[swift robin]

unacceptable

[wind spade]

and that's non-stop game run time. Assuming you play 12h daily (already overestimated), it's 27.4 years.

[median heath]

I'll know.
That's enough.

[swift robin]

you need to consider that their children will be playing daily as well and they might be exposed to a yellow light if you mess this up

[wind spade]

you must have a hard time playing the game when you know that the game probably has even less precision

[median heath]

Game code precision can't be accounted for.
So I do everything precisely on my end so that anything that happens is beyond my control. Which means it can be let go/accepted.

[raw basalt]

looks like somebody cant enjoy simple things tbh

[median heath]

I enjoy simple precise things.

[raw basalt]

you have a WAY out of control definition of "simple"

[median heath]

?

[raw basalt]

being precise in the previously described situation is not simple.

[quartz violet]

the simple joy of finishing a factory with 400 refineries, 300 constructors, 200 assemblers, and 60 manufacturers

[ashen aurora]

The simple joy of reaching tier 8 by only building megafactories

I wish to reach such a bliss

[quartz violet]

the simple joy of not once using a crafting bench due to immediately automating everything

[ashen aurora]

It's impossible to start automating without using a craft bench

[quartz violet]

no it isnt

if you skip boarding you can get cable and plates right at the start

[ashen aurora]

Oh right

[quartz violet]

only need an equipment bench

[ashen aurora]

I forgor that was an option

[quartz violet]

technically you could make mass scale spaghetti factories for the most basic resources before even getting miners

oh wait nvm you would need assemblers to make the reinforced plates

[median heath]

It's incredibly simple.
Don't have repeating decimals in production lines.

[raw basalt]

it happens once in in 5k days for 1 thing to turn yellow ... based on that you are making adjustments if i read that right
that is not simple in the way "simple" is defined in the world

[quartz violet]

repeating decimals don't matter if you just split things correctly

[median heath]

45-81 rule.
Problem solved.

[median heath]

Splitting less or more than the actual amount doesn't get fixed by splitting correctly... 🤷‍♂️

Like, if you set a Smelter to 20/min, it's actually at 19.99998/min

No amount of splitting will fix that.

[quartz violet]

and why is that a problem

[median heath]

Because if you need 20, that's not 20.

[vapid nest]

Heyy it's me again, question...
Can Smart Splitters be used for a sorting system?

[median heath]

Yes

[raw basalt]

yes

[median heath]

That's their primary use.

[vapid nest]

Just manifold?

[raw basalt]

programmable are even better

[median heath]

Yes.

Poggers are not better

Poggers are bugged and have extremely few optimal use-cases.

[vapid nest]

Alright, thanks

So just load everything on one belt and then let the smart splitter do its thing?

[median heath]

Or 2, if you have ISCs.

Can use both inputs.

[vapid nest]

ISCs?

[median heath]

Industrial Storage Containers

[vapid nest]

Oh.

[median heath]

!wikisearch Acronyms

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=Acronyms

[raw basalt]

dosent invalidate my statement for you

[median heath]

Sure 👍

[quartz violet]

did math, took longer than it should have.
you lose 1 second for every million cycles. that's totally fine

[median heath]

Lost second = not fine

[raw basalt]

see thats what i mean :) you are enjoying overcomplicated things :)

[median heath]

Sure 👍

[quartz violet]

if a cycle is an arbitrary 3 seconds you need over 800 hours of use for 1 second of downtime

[median heath]

Or just... don't do things with imprecision. 🤷‍♂️

[raw basalt]

yeah like bro common ...also account for game erros in decimals :)))))))))

[quartz violet]

yeah thats what I did

also you will lose more production every time the game saves than from that floating point error

not floating point

uh.. a something error

[raw basalt]

UNACCEPTABLE ...your fault cause imprecision

[median heath]

You're never going to get me to intentionally use imprecise numbers 🤷‍♂️

[median heath]

I'm happy you're enjoying mocking me.

[quartz violet]

oh smelters are 2 second cycles so its 600 hours and a bit

[raw basalt]

"sure 👍 "

[median heath]

+1 to the mute list.

[quartz violet]

XD

[median heath]

Should have done it back when he said Poggers were better, but was giving the benefit of the doubt. 🤷‍♂️

[raw basalt]

telling people to mute them because they tell you something obvious ....lmao actually great

[cinder silo]

My save has a total of four programmable splitters for specific purposes, compared to like two hundred or more smart splitters.

[median heath]

^

[quartz violet]

you can use smart splitters to fulfill the purpose of programmable splitters anyways

[vapid gorge]

Make sure you have a sink for overflow though unless you don't have a buffer collecting items, then you can time it properly

[raw basalt]

id rather have more options than less lul

[quartz violet]

yeah i guess but still they are kind of stupid

[cinder silo]

In the vast majority of cases yes, I just didn't have the time, space nor inclination to build an epic helix bundle for a couple of my sushi lines that had dozens of items which had to split in only two ways.

[vapid gorge]

Bugs can make it fewer options though

[vapid gorge]

btw, the issues with poggers, is it accidental dupe? Haven't really been following

[median heath]

More options is irrelevant unless you're storing multiple things in the same container, lol

[cinder silo]

Programmables are just niche because for their intended purposes I found them more trouble than they're worth, they do still solve the odd rare problem.

[median heath]

Which almost no one does.
So you end with chained smarts either way.
Meaning the pogger was irrelevant.

[vapid gorge]

Every time someone talks about storing multiple things in 1 container that is then used as a buffer for things my eyes glaze over

[raw basalt]

true
but having 1 machine turn yellow in 5k days and literally worrying EVER about it worse imo

[median heath]

People play the game wrong 🤷‍♂️

[vapid gorge]

A lot of the systems where poggers are useful though and shine are systems that can get clogged when something goes wrong.

The solution to that is a sink but that's often awkward or sometimes not an option depending

[raw basalt]

mans telling how people should play a game ...alright lmfao wtf

[vapid gorge]

Look, I'm not one to tell people they are playing a sandbox wrong, but setting up a multi item storage with the way stacks and outputs work makes me want to claw my brains out

[vapid nest]

You mean at the end of the line have another smart splitter that puts the excess into the sink?

[vapid gorge]

Like you can do it, and I'm sure there's solutions to make that work... but whyyyyyyyyyy\

[vapid gorge]

basically yeah.

[raw basalt]

the only way i ever use a isc with multiple different item flow is when its the end of a line /or my storage system and its going into the sink

[vapid gorge]

and that's great!

I've had people come at me talking about multi item isc buffers heading to machines XD

And I die.

[raw basalt]

lol

[quartz violet]

easy way to calculate that for the weird decimal sevrahn mentioned, multiply the cycle time by 278 and it's that number of hours running before you lose a cycle

[vapid gorge]

The example that immediately comes to mind are people trying to train in multiple items in one car getting fed out to a new factory.

It was an interesting hypothetical and refuse to acknowledge they actually set the system up and that it exists

[raw basalt]

wich is irrelevant since its such a minor amount of time ....you dont even notice it most the time

[cinder silo]

Multi item Isc for taking biomass, slugs, food, alien organs and flowers, it also sinks everything else 😛

[vapid gorge]

No but there IS something satisfying about knowing your machines will run forever w/o a hiccup

[vapid gorge]

But that's storage and thus fiiiiiine

[cinder silo]

Naa that's feed for the semi automatic production of power shards, solid biofuel, paint cans & protein, also lets me sink crap that's in my pocket.

[quartz violet]

278*clock cycle time number of hours is baseline I assume

[vapid gorge]

by semi automatic do you mean 'storage for me to grab things and handcraft and then pass to the next manually' ?

[median heath]

Never had to care to calculate it because I never use repeating decimals that get truncated 🤷‍♂️

[quartz violet]

did you mean that the smelters all have that situation

[cinder silo]

Nope, it outputs to three programmable & seven smart splitters, sending all the crap to the appropriate machines upstairs, then the results are auto sorted in to the warehouse next door.

[quartz violet]

and every other machine too

[vapid gorge]

ok but they're not getting automatically fed into the system so that there's a lot of easy clogs or need to sink things and waste resources

I don't see how I would ever need more than 1 isc to toss it all in and grab as I need but if an autosorter gets you going that's fine 😛

[quartz violet]

if every machine is .999999 clockspeed then that's kind of a problem. of course it doesnt really matter if all of them have downtime every 1 in a million cycles

[magic island]

my nuke supply train has a car carrying most of the non-radioactive parts involved. they just get sorted into separate ISCs immediately on arrival. any overflow goes into the sink, but there really isn't any to speak of

[median heath]

Machines % can't go beyond 4 decimals.
xxx.xxxx anything beyond that gets ignored completely.
So any time you need xx.66666666 or xx.555555555 or xx.888888888 of a machine, you can't actually get it.

[quartz violet]

okay

4 decimals?

[vapid gorge]

if the actual # of ppm is fairly low and it's timed properly so there's never any meaningful buffer you can get away with it more easily. But that's a little niche

[cinder silo]

Yeah there is no way to fully automate what those four floors handle, It was built so I can just toss in random crap, to produce protein, biofuel, shards & paint, all the stuff that at one time would have been hand made, it's also handy to also sink crap I toss in there to clear my pockets 🙂

[quartz violet]

you wrote 8 7 and 9 decimals

oh I'm stupid nevermind

I dont fully read things by accident sometimes

[median heath]

Using the Smelter example:

If you tell it to make 20, it will say that it is. But it isn't.
Because 20/30 is 66.666666666666_%
And the machine will just set to 66.6666% and that's where the imprecision starts.

The ppm box is just there to make you feel better, the game doesn't actually care about it.

[quartz violet]

okay well I calculated for that specific situation then

[cinder silo]

Lighting or machine lights could do with a pass, one is green, the other yellow, but in that light they look so similar.

[magic island]

as long as the freight platform fully empties out every time, that means everything gets successfully sorted, and nothing blocks anything else or gets tripped up by FILO shenanigans. and yeah, the ppm is low enough for that to be true

it makes a lot more sense to combine & sort at destination, than to have multiple cars each carrying a piddling amount of plates/heatsinks/em-rods etc

[median heath]

And we did the math for the 45-81 rule to avoid the situation entirely.

[vapid gorge]

Thats one of the reasons I build up as much as I possibly can and choose locations based on that. The way my hubs work the output is done or planned with drones being able to take up the movement

[quartz violet]

realized I'm stupid and it's 28 times the cycle time number of hours to have downtime if you round down the decimal 100% of the time. it's different for certain decimals if you round it down

[unborn ermine]

imho, I feel like that would be part of colour accessibility options.
Like one setting for biome colours/atmos, and to sharpen contrast/deepen lights like those would be another.
Gunna have to make a list of things that need this 👀

[sand epoch]

I still want a color for underclocked :/

[unborn ermine]

Overclocked becomes hotpink/magenta/purple(slug level maybe per shard?)
Underclocked would be odd still, if the slug-level would be used.

Otherwise, underclocked the current blue, and purple-ish over.

[swift robin]

yeah i dont like the white for overclocked

[median heath]

I'm weird because it's blue to my eyes.

[deft lichen]

"blue"

[median heath]

See that is white.

When I look at them in game they appear 100% blue to my eyes

[deft lichen]

I can't deny it's ever so slightly tinted blue, but when I see this I don't think of blue

now these are clearly blue/purple-ish

[median heath]

Wonder where everyone got their third-person ideas from 😉

[deft lichen]

the explorer is in the release date trailer even though it wasn't added until U1 a month later

false advertising

[median heath]

That's why only like 11 people bought the game 😉

[median heath]

"blue"

[deft lichen]

whaaaa

what's your gamma?

[median heath]

Default 🤷‍♂️

I haven't touched video settings like.. ever.

[deft lichen]

the one in the back is also clearly blue

I'll mess around with video settings

[median heath]

I think that blue a better color for it than white anyway. So I'm not complaining.

[deft lichen]

I just wish they'd flash like before 0.3.4.0

[median heath]

I don't.
I'm not epileptic or anything, but constantly flashing lights would annoy me

[sullen cloud]

This. And even more annoying is that you need to be in the same sub map tile that light indicators are updated. With large builds, that’s tedious.

[desert bane]

Need that sweet, sweet blue hue to make white. Plus monitor settings between people and screenshots vary colors wildly

Only chiming in because it's a funny conversation to see personally. Dealt with that for customers at work regarding color of materials and their wants, lol

[deft lichen]

related pics are posted in #screenshots

[thorn bane]

but guys is the dress white yellow or black blue??????

[north echo]

Guys whats the point of truck station really? To transport a big amount of item from one place to another (for example 270 coal/min for something like 5km) just a really big mk3 conveyor belts would be the same right?
The only difference is aesthetic right?

[glacial summit]

Idk how I will use trains but they are really useful for transporting liquids

Oil for example. It's much easier to build one railway than few pipes with pump every 50m

[fierce ruin]

They are also buggy

[signal nimbus]

Ahem...

Minimal. Infrastructure.

If you can drive there, and get fuel from your main base, you can get the stuff from there with a simple power line. No belts or trains, minimal building, minimal set up, decent scalability, and no additional power requirements.

The biggest loss here is you still need power. Late game power gets transferred through rails. If you have a rail there, then the infrastructure is already built and you just... train.

[median heath]

This is the same for trucks, trains, and drones.
If you prefer to just build massive beltways, go for it.

[magic island]

anything beyond belts & pipes is organization/aesthetics/convenience, but those things all contribute to Satisfaction sooo

[median heath]

Some people can't get no satisfaction 😉

[modern scarab]

Not sure if someone else has mentioned this but you don't need pumps unless you're increasing elevation. Liquids will go across the entire map horizontally without any need for pumps.

[glacial summit]

Ok

Maps isn't always flat

So I'll have to place pumps sometimes anyway

+Train can hold more liquid than pipe

[modern scarab]

I wasn't saying you wouldn't need pumps, I was just letting you know that you don't need them every 50m. It's not uncommon for people to misunderstand their use

[glacial summit]

I understand

In desert it's actually every 50m

[vapid nest]

What do you need more: Steel beams or Steel pipes?

[proven sphinx]

i've got 2.25 plutonium fuel rods per min, thats how many plants? 22.5?

[rigid pine]

got a quick question im a bit too tired to solve.
what setup must i use to split one input of 240 into a "144"-output and a "96"output?

[hollow fossil]

trying to split 140 ore into 30-30-30-30-20, any advice?

[blazing kraken]

Splitter to 120 belt with a smart splitter, 20 belt is the overflow. Then 120 to 2 60s and then split to 30s?

I think that could work

[magic island]

By endgame, you'll probably be using significantly more pipes than beams (the ratio can vary a lot and will depend on recipe choices).

But for personal construction use, you'll be using more beams than pipes, since they make Mk3 conveyors.

[vapid nest]

Hmm alright

[buoyant seal]

That’s gonna need one hell of a load balancer

[fringe pawn]

Of all the things to balance, ore I understand the least, as you're never looking at a long manifold priming time.

[buoyant seal]

Yeah you might as well just manifold it.

What source of ore is even giving 140 per minute… a slightly overclocked miner?

[magic island]

you can balance any ratio you want with a wacky enough arrangement of mergers/splitters, and there are situations where it's fun to do that. but I wouldn't do it with ore.

if you'd like somewhat of a balanced look, you could have a two-way manifold for five smelters, and have the ore enter it in the middle (with the middle one being clocked to 20/min)

then, once the middle smelter's inventory backs up, the other 4 will all immediately start getting a balanced 30/min each

[median heath]

Manifold.

!wikisearch manifold

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=manifold

[vapid nest]

What are your tips on creating a production line for Versatile Framework and Automated Wiring?

[median heath]

Tip 1:
Imagine automating Project Parts....

Couldn't be me 🙃

[vapid gorge]

Is it just to complete a phase for the next tiers?
If so just having a machine or two of each in front of a buffer of their parts.

[vapid nest]

Oh

But I saw that you need all of these parts to complete Phase 3

500 Smart Plating, 250 Versatile Framework and Automated Wiring. What will be next? 1000 Industrial something something?

[vapid gorge]

You can keep creating them slowly on the side and buffer them for later 🙂

[vapid nest]

So no whole production line?

[vapid gorge]

Like when I first use smart plating in completing the first phase I make extra for the next

[vapid nest]

And just storage the components that make these things?

[vapid gorge]

Pretty much. Because they don't go towards anything else that's useful I just siphon off parts from the main factory and let the Space Parts build up while doing other things

[vapid nest]

And there goes another reason not to watch his tutorials anymore. Many many thanks

[vapid gorge]

-it's a personal choice though, I just don't find it meaningful to put in the effort of creating a proper factory for very temporary items

[vapid gorge]

which tutes?

[vapid nest]

Uhm... I don't want to slant anyone

It's the other big youtuber besides ImKibitz

[vapid gorge]

Well there's also no reason to not make a production line for them if that's what you want.

Like this is a big sand box game where you decide what is important to you

[vapid nest]

Since making space elevator parts is only temporary why tf automated everything

[vapid gorge]

I'm automating hundreds of them now XD

It's my end goal 🙂

[vapid nest]

Oh to automate every space part?

[unborn ermine]

I would say, for giggles, at least make 1-2 per min of the parts, just to say that you did

[vapid gorge]

yeah now that I've unlocked everything that's my personal goal 🙂

[vapid nest]

Nice

[vapid gorge]

so remember me suggesting to not make a dedicated automation of them come from

-I like rushing through tiers to get it over with
-making slap dash processes for things that don't need to be paid attention to (eg temp space parts)
-making factories I'm happy to destroy later for better ones

I've met people who really just love making perfect factories all the way through and that's also fine

[vapid nest]

Hmm alright thanks for the advice

And for saving me alot of trouble

[vapid gorge]

No prob 😄 It just depends what's important for you - I think my suggestion is good if you want to bee line to unlocking everything and save time 🙂

Like I can't say automating space parts is bad because I have a spreadsheet in front of me with plans to make hundreds of Versatile Frameworks per min

[vapid nest]

I think I just found what works for me

Phase 2 has only 250 of each, 500 smart platings are already automated. After that you get to access more of the map and planning a huge factory for many many space parts is far easier

[vapid gorge]

I wouldn't even bother doing that until I've unlocked all the tiers and gotten all the alt recipes.

There's so much versatility with them

[vapid nest]

Wait you can unlock all alt recipes?

[blazing kraken]

Indeed

[vapid nest]

....Wow

[vapid gorge]

there are currently more available hard drives than alts

I doubt that'll change

[vapid gorge]

I think one of the biggest things you'll probably face is deciding how to hub your world.

Will you make a bunch of hubs that make 1 medium tier item and ship them all over? Or build up tiers and very carefully plan hubs to make high tier items on location

[vapid nest]

You mean if I go for a modular apporach or build one giga factory?

[vapid gorge]

oh focused modular.
There are so many alt recipes of things that you can make high tier items with very little logistics

Like some people build a big factory for just circuit boards. I'm building a factory from the ground up making 240 computers and 120 super computers

[vapid nest]

Oh that's what you mean

[vapid gorge]

Benefits are - much less logistics
Negatives - TONS more planning

[vapid nest]

I think what I do is simliar to you. I want the end product be in the same factory chain as the first item in the production chain, excluding trains and long conveyors

[vapid gorge]

Well atm I think I have 7 major hubs planned/made not including power

1 hub for hundreds of HMF, 1 for 120 assembler directors pm (with a couple minor hubs as suppor) , ect ect

So it's a bit of a mix between a Mega factory and Hubs

[magic island]

the thing with space parts is, they're a finite quantity-based goal in a game that's all about rates.

personally, I only ever fully automate the final four elevator parts, since it makes a nice completion goal. other tiers, I just slap together machines fed by bins and then delete them when they're done

[modern scarab]

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. If you're moving vertically then yes it's every 20m for MK1 or 50m for MK2 pumps. Moving horizontally however, you don't need ANY pumps.

[hollow fossil]

While it is true you need a finite number of the space parts, I automate them and let them sit until the object is completed then I just feed the rest to the ticket maker thing bc they give a ton of points

[vapid nest]

Phew finally done

[grand yoke]

This is why I stop playing

[verbal seal]

Damn I should start making easier projects as well, would be nice to have that feeling.

Ehh some day I’ll have my 500 generator fuel factory ready.

[brittle thunder]

nice, what miners are you using to run 32 gennys off the 4 nodes?

I have 8 set up in that same pond, but the second pair of nodes has a rock in the way of 1 of them, limiting my power expansion..

Mk2s should do it in theory? That should give 480 coal/min

(only got Mk1s unlocked currently.. )

[unborn ermine]

"should"
Long belts can be a bit finicky at max volume

[brittle thunder]

Define long? Its about 250 meters from the nodes to the lake

not terrible

[unborn ermine]

Thats not that bad, If you are going for something like full 480 feeding exactly the right amount of machines(or with mk5 at 780) with more than that, numbers start to get weird with belt outputs, loosing items ect.

[brittle thunder]

lol, OK, I'll bear that in mind!

[unborn ermine]

If you ask people, there are some workarounds and details, I know only so much

[cinder silo]

Quick and dirty method of enforcing 780ppm, just split in to two right on the miner.

[brittle thunder]

ahh OK. Its 'only' power production at the moment, and it seems stable (the 'Top' line never wavers in game, that I notice at least)

if needs be I'll run another pair of conveyors down there

[fierce urchin]

Is throughput loss significant enough to do this?

[cinder silo]

It's enough to make my numbers go south, 780 can drop to more like 750 or worse due to belt to belt connections over long distances, just sending two belts eliminates all that and even the fun & games belt welding. another method is using conveyor mergers instead of poles, but that looks terrible.

[wind spade]

depends how many segment the belt consists of

with two segments the loss is most likely very minimal

but each segment adds to this

[unborn ermine]

Most of the times any noticeable issues arise when you absolutely need 100% of what you are sending.

[fierce urchin]

I knew that higher speed belts were losing throughput but never really bothered to measure by how much. I need to check my steel production that belts coal from all over the place

[wind spade]

all belts do lose max throughput over belt segments

[unborn ermine]

The tldr;
Aim for a tier higher if you are really close to max throughput

[cinder silo]

The two belt approach is the simplest approach with less faff than other means of keeping throughput.

Still imperfect when conveyor lifts are involved, you'd need to merge right before the machines.

[unborn ermine]

defo less faff than going for mk 5 belts

[cinder silo]

As greeny mentioned above, all belts lose throughput over belt segments, it's just more noticeable with mk5s over distance because the max loss is greater when you look at the numbers as is. by the time that kind of precision even matters (not even than though lol) you'll be swimming in alclads and just using mk5s everywhere.