math-and-meta

[normal gate]

Yea I'd really love to know what the "big" ones are as far as cranking up the size

[vapid gorge]

Imkibitz and Totalxclipse does some tours of maps of some truly massive saves that'd give you a good idea?

[normal gate]

oh i've seen them I'm just curious of it from a numbers stand point

[vapid gorge]

I think they mention like 14mb at one point for a full world resource use? memory might be off though

[normal gate]

i'll have to look into that. See what saves TX put up for use

thanks for the idea

[sand epoch]

Gotta start somewhere

[normal gate]

Well my massive "grab all the desert nodes" bit is 4.8Mb alone lol....so there is that

[frigid idol]

i wanna see that build

[normal gate]

Def posting it as a blueprint once it's finished. Its about 95% done, just doing cosmetic fixes and all. Here is a screenshot

Its ALL the nodes in the desert, mk3 miners maxed out up to 780

Thanks to @vapid gorge for the math and some tips on it

[frigid idol]

that looks sweet

whatre you making with the iron

[worthy ravine]

Just screws. All of it just screws.

[frigid idol]

oh god

imagine

[normal gate]

its just pure ore. Pulling it all together for the user to do whatever. The train stations you see are me grabbing some for my save, they won't be there in the blueprint version

[worthy ravine]

Now I’m wondering how many screws that could make ngl

Time to do some math ig

[normal gate]

on it right now

azpprox 145,000 per min with pure iron ingots and cast screws

[vapid gorge]

Someone already did a million screw build

[frigid idol]

79,440 with regular recipes

[normal gate]

....WHY

[vapid gorge]

Why not?

[normal gate]

I cannot argue with that logic

i wonder what points they get per min on that

[vapid gorge]

Easy to find out 😄

[frigid idol]

lmao

[normal gate]

290k

[frigid idol]

if i did a million screws i would spaghetti those belts of screws all over the map

[worthy ravine]

Fucking hell thats a lot of screws

[normal gate]

oh hell yes. do it like a lets game it out build

[worthy ravine]

Do a “Let’s game it out!”

[frigid idol]

lmao

[worthy ravine]

That’s what I’m saying

[frigid idol]

make a tornado

[worthy ravine]

Make a whole tornado

Bruh

[frigid idol]

lol

3 fps

[normal gate]

yea if you got a 3080

[worthy ravine]

Not even. That’s on minimum graphics 😂

[normal gate]

didn't LGIO do a tornado once?

[frigid idol]

did you know coffee stain took his save and gathered data to make the game run smoother

[normal gate]

my current build project is gonna do 8k iron, 8k steel, 1k cat, and 10k cooper ingots a min

[normal gate]

no shit? hella awesome and smart

[frigid idol]

ima do a spaget build one of these days i just have to convince myself enough

[normal gate]

I got a fresh save going, no mods, except maybe one or two cosmetic, that will prob have some at some point

[frigid idol]

ive seen some impressive ones. belts EVERYWHERE

[normal gate]

I got a mod that lets you do belts that look like hypertubes. very cool

[frigid idol]

damn that sounds dope

[normal gate]

covered conveyor belts

[knotty parrot]

How many Refiners can there be per Oil Extrator? (ex, 1 Pure Crude Oil or 1 Normal Crude Oil)

[normal gate]

any ovver clocking? and what are you refining?

[marsh gate]

"Signal loops onto itself."
Please help me. I tried Path signals and I get the same result.

A few of the signals aren't creating new blocks for some reason. They are all Block signals in this picture.

[knotty parrot]

No overclocking, but im refining Oil into Rubber and Plastic

[normal gate]

Have you used the calculator website to look at your math depending on your build?

[knotty parrot]

what is the calculator website sorry?

[normal gate]

all good

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/

all kinds of amazing tools

DM me if you need help on this one

I got about 30 min or so before I log off

[knotty parrot]

okie ill check it out

[marsh gate]

Anyone?

[normal gate]

I'd help ya if I could but I'm so bad with trains. @vapid gorge are you potentially available? I know you tend to be pretty busy

[vapid gorge]

I’m mostly just not great with trains. It’s keep my junctions reaaaallly simple to avoid these issues :/

[vapid gorge]

I’d probably try to redesign it? Looks overly complicated

[marsh gate]

That's not always possible when you got a station here.

Plus terrain limitations.

[marsh gate]

I'm basically trying to split the blocks so the trains aren't stopping wrongly.

But I can't properly split them and I do not know why. Every time I try to fix it the issue gets worse.

[vapid gorge]

You could merge the tracks instead of a junction there then create a roundabout a bit further on for U turns?

[frosty owl]

The "green X" probably can't be divided into smaller blocks because the rails are too close to one another (even 2 parallel rails are part of one block if too close!)

In other words, you'd need to place the signals farther from the intersection point so they're not so close to one another

[deft lichen]

signal loops into itself means the signal generally failed to divide a block, likely due to tracks being too close to each other

[wooden notch]

when it comes to trains do i have to make all the blank spots so it can grab what it should be grabbing or can i just put 3 Freight platform when the train is 9 freight cars and call it a day

[magic island]

the train can be longer than the station, it's fine

[wooden notch]

even if i don't put an empty platform down?

[magic island]

yep. trains can trail out the back of a station no problem

functionally, you would only NEED empty platforms if you wanted to prevent a car in the front or middle from loading/unloading

[wooden notch]

oh ok

[wind spade]

usually people just do manifolds

but you can do weird balancer contraptions if you don't like that

[magic island]

there's no direct way to program in that kind of split

you can achieve oddball splits through wacky splitter logic (not a popular option), you can try direct-feeding (using machines clocked differently to produce the amounts you want to send to each place), or you can rely on one of the conveyors eventually backing up (how manifolds work)

the simplest way to get what you're going for is to take that conveyor with 73 ore on it (weird number but sure), split it directly into the machine that's consuming 16/min, and having the rest continue on.

for a brief period that machine will receive half the ore, but pretty quickly its input will back up, and then it'll only consume 16/min thereafter

[wind spade]

they are pretty much pointless anyway, manifolds work as well

easy split

--S--S--S--S--S
  |  |  |  |  |
  X  X  X  X  X

manifold is not a bottleneck 🤷‍♂️

it's just... delayed production

[magic island]

I will say: I don't aesthetically like how backed-up belts look, so I will always place my manifold splitters as close to the inputs as possible, so that the part of the belt I can see is always moving

satisfaction is important

[wooden notch]

yeah it will just take a sec but nothing will idle if your math is correct and conveyers are fast enough

[glacial hemlock]

Or just use online calculators

Equal splitting uses more buildings to construct and can hurt your late game fps

[wooden notch]

fps lag just means ||shit|| works

if you ain't dropping fps you doing something wrong

[echo mantle]

What would I need for a mod engine factory

[sand epoch]

Parts. Yup, I'm going with parts.

[potent garden]

if you press n while in game it opens up a search box. type in engine and it should pull up the recipe if you have it unlocked

[echo mantle]

I get that

But I’m talking more about the layout

[wind spade]

layout is up to you really

[vapid gorge]

And it really depends on if you're building it from scratch right?

[vapid gorge]

This is something I just threw together with a few alt recipes that simplify production a bit.
You could, for example, use the production bubbles as a rough layout for buildings.
The steel pipe factory could be next to the Rotor and Stator factory.

In fact in the recipes I chose rotors and stators just need different amounts of wire and pipes. Then go from there https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVYPLP9NSg4&list=UUW7AGm8JSBEEew61dJIgl_A&index=3

[mint sky]

Nah that's slow :p

Just use the normal Balancing?

[wind spade]

a few minutes, let it fill while you build next part, most likely you won't ever notice the delay

[mint sky]

Nah imma just use Balancing, works right away

[wind spade]

or hand-fill the machines and it'll work straight away 🤷‍♂️

[mint sky]

Tru

Imma do that in my next build

[wind spade]

well, it's up to you, but have fun balancing things like 13:23

[mint sky]

What? No

You just need to balance the Balancer

Not that hard, just coplicated

But one you got it, it's easy

[wind spade]

well that's what I'm talking about - have fun building things like 13:23 balancers

or even better, if some machines need different amount of resources

[mint sky]

Definitely not a screen shot from a video

And what do you mean with 13:23

[wind spade]

yeah just takes like 5 times as much space and can't even handle full belt

[mint sky]

Yea, and it doesn't look good

[wind spade]

13 inequal inputs, 23 equal outputs

[mint sky]

Ahh, thanks

I'm just trying to stay on numbers you can devide by 2 or 3

So I don't have to make it complicated

[wind spade]

well manifolds are easy and quick and can do any numbers, even different amount per machine 🤷‍♂️

[mint sky]

Yeah

And looks way cooler

[tender pollen]

The war between the load balancers and the manifold users has raged for a millennia.
The balancers will never fold !
The balance of the manifolders unwavering !

[fierce ruin]

1+1=2, you can delete this channel now lol

[fierce ruin]

aight, remove the electricity from the machines connected to the manifold/put them into standy, then let them fill up completely (and the machines), finally, give the power back/disable standyby mode, there u go, no worries about the manifold taking an hour to fill

[errant sable]

nope

[fierce ruin]

im going to explosion you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMeKvampFE8

[errant sable]

i can't watch the video rn but i'm assuming it divides by zero somewhere

[median heath]

If you remove the power from the machines they won't fill.

[fierce ruin]

put it in manually then ig

[deft lichen]

it's the fastest to block the output

let the entire setup run, just don't connect it to storage/other machines

[tender pollen]

I got 1 stack of hay and I added it to another stack of hay and i ended up with 1 stack of hay. 🤔
So i guess 1 + 1 = 1 😁

[fierce ruin]

It divides by 0

So it doesn’t work

[barren elm]

I do think balancers have a place in minimizing radiation from nuclear

But that's about it

[fierce ruin]

yes

[median heath]

They are helpful when doing sushi.

[vernal dove]

I mean, just join them to single line and split into 24, loop 1 back into the system
depending if a single conveyor cant handle to join the 13 other conveyors you can split into 24 not all at once, but stop by step, that's the logic that I usually use to solve my load balancing problems, but the more items/min you need to load balance the harder it gets.

[wind spade]

it's 13 uneven inputs

and it's more than one belt can handle

[vernal dove]

thats too bad

[glacial hemlock]

load balancing can be done for any ratio, just need to be careful with the loop back.

[cobalt meteor]

if i am producing 3 uranium fuel rods per minute, should i manifold or evenly split that to 15 generators? I want to manifold it but i don’t know how long it would take to become stable

[median heath]

Nuclear is usually the main thing balancers are used for.

[wind spade]

or just build three plants next to each one machine

[cobalt meteor]

ooh i like this i think ill just do that

no need to merge it

[thick plank]

You should definitly balance that. Cause even without actually using any fuel rods your machienes will be filled up after 4500 minutes

[fierce cypress]

another benefit of balancer is it reduces radiation buildup

[thick plank]

Generally use balancers on nuclear power plants. Use manifolds everywhere else

[past cedar]

my 10 load balanced reactors ... works good after the tip of 'feed the end back into the front' trying to balance "10" ...

[undone carbon]

What was the design that water comes from bottom pipe first and if needed it comes from top one conected too it?

[past cedar]

so i split evenly to 12, and the 2 extra just feed back in to the start... then the "10" remaing drop down and run along to the reactors (in that shot above) ... i then use mk1-5 belts to make them run about even speed all the way to the end LOL

[thorn bane]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MdZ8Xr8P_SF_FL7B6WDjCZGS-x9Cwt-x/view
VIP

[undone carbon]

Thank you, i need water from aluminium go first and then just top up with water pump this might work the trick

[thorn bane]

could do this instead where you use the water for its own set of recycle refineries

[barren elm]

But then you need a smaller set of recycle refineries for the waste water from those recycle refineries

[magic island]

not true

[thorn bane]

its recycling all the way down /s
nah you rust reconnect that back to the recycled refineries

[magic island]

from the very start, you build for the amount of alumina solution that the initial AND recycle refineries will produce

thus, your total byproduct water doesn't change. needs a bit of spin-up, is all

[crude cedar]

breh

[thorn bane]

i wouldnt do that
just overbuild in a manifold
for example if you have 780 bauxite build 4x200

[wind spade]

I'd recommend just building 2 or 3 plants (based on recipe) next to each machine making rods. Makes "balancing" much easier

[glacial hemlock]

Splitting the recycled and fresh refineries works out pretty reliable

[normal gate]

Question. I'm working on a 5 Smart Plates/minute build using all Tier 2 max stuff, and I'm trying to figure out if my build is set up correctly. Maybe I'm just used to higher tier stuff throwing me off, or I have a very inefficent setup. Can I get some help checking this please? https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/planners/production/index/json/{"Desc_SpaceElevatorPart_1_C"%3A"5"}

edit: reason I'm asking is due to things like the rotors for example waiting on inputs to be filled/running constant low, etc

[hasty gate]

looks good what id suggest is moving the rotor and RIP's to the center of the 3 assmeblers which might help to event shit out

actually

scratch that

[hasty gate]

is one of the assemblers at the end underclocked to 50%?

[normal gate]

on which items, the smart plates or..?

[hasty gate]

smart plates

[normal gate]

The left most of the 3 is at 50% yes

[hasty gate]

try underclocking each one to 83.33 instead

[hasty gate]

and try this

[normal gate]

i'm curious how did you get the 83.3 numbers?

[hasty gate]

u need a 50% underclock between 3 so 50/3 is 16.66666

and 100-16.6666is the 83.33

[normal gate]

ah gotcha.

[normal gate]

try this?

[hasty gate]

try moving the rotor and RIP's to the center of the 3 assmeblers which might help to even shit out

[normal gate]

Thanks. Gonna do a rebuild now

[hasty gate]

k hope it works for u

[normal gate]

Appreciate all the tips and info ❤️

[fierce ruin]

what sort of production goals should i aim for when i first unlock aluminium?

also should i get any alt recipes before even bothering to set it up

[normal gate]

Sloppy alumina tends to be a great saver

[hasty gate]

i go for this if i have no alternate recipes https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/planners/production/index/json/{"Desc_AluminumIngot_C"%3A"240"}

240 ingots into whateve ru need

[glacial hemlock]

Rush for mk5 belt tech unlock, it is a life saver

[vernal dove]

what program did you use?

to do this schematic?

[fierce ruin]

Draw io I think it was called

But satisfactory has a specific site for this kind of thing

[wind spade]

250% (total, 2.5 buildings) divided by 3

[empty seal]

Is this a good plan for a Plastic/Rubber/Fuel Factory? Currently building with the two pure oil nodes on the gold coast

Not so sure about the amounts I'm gonna produce, might make less plastic and rubber and more Fuel at some point

[glacial hemlock]

plastic, rubber and fuel all depends on each other. You are lacking 2 recipes, recycled plastic and diluted packaged fuel. hunt more hard drives.
production wise aim for 2 full belts of plastic and rubber, means 960 plastic and 960 rubber. Fuel is just whatever excess as a byproduct
Fuel generator in early stage is just to burn the excess. The real fuel power is when you start making turbofuel.

[oblique hollow]

polymer resin is a terrible recipe for making plastic

a lot of effort for like 2% more plastic

[glacial hemlock]

1147 oil should make 3441 total product of (fuel + plastic + rubber) now he is getting 1230.

[scarlet sage]

sorry for offtopic, but is this just draw.io/visio? or some other tool

[wind spade]

it's outdated calculator for satisfactory, up-to-date ones are in #welcome

[empty seal]

Thanks for the tips, I'm not looking to maximize Rubber and Plastic yet though, cause I'm not even in Phase 4 yet. Just trying to get some production going to get Circuit Boards and the like going.

[wind spade]

then you should calculate based on how much CB and other stuff you want to produce 🙂

[empty seal]

I usually use Satisfactorytools, but I was having some trouble with the way it was working. They link in #welcome is still to the U5 Website for Tools, the new one isnt there yet

[wind spade]

the new one can be accessed by using the top right corner menu 🤷‍♂️

and what issues you had?

[empty seal]

Which menu do you mean?

[wind spade]

(yeah I know it has kinda outdated texts about stable and experimental)

[empty seal]

I don't know if I'm doing something wrong, but I don't find it very intuitive to have to juggle with different values for outputs if I'm trying to get more even values for the amounts of machines I need. So often it says I need like 26.66667 machines or something, but I just want it to be like 27. I just had a look on the wiki yesterday and went through several different sites, the one i made the screenshot of was the nicest to use and it's not outdated for oil recipes as far as I know.

[wind spade]

the recipes are from U4 on that site

also, 26.6667 means 26 machines at 100% and 1 machine at 66.6667% clock speed

[empty seal]

Wiki says U4/U5

[wind spade]

I'd recommend learning about how underclocking can give you nice ratios 😛

[median heath]

Imprecision 😭

[wind spade]

see https://daniel2013.github.io/satisfactory/about

[empty seal]

Yeah I know that I can underclock, but why would I use different clocks for the same machines? I usually try to give all the machines with the same recipes in a workflow the same clocks

[wind spade]

the game is more imprecise than that 🤷‍♂️

[wind spade]

then do 26.6667/27 = 0.98765555555 => 98.7655% clock speed for each machine

[median heath]

Why would you do the thing that let's have you specific numbers of machines when what you want is specific numbers of machines?

I don't know.. that's a real thinker...

[empty seal]

I don't think I understand you quite. Why would I only build for specific recipes? Then I would have to upscale everytime I need more plastic for a new recipe. I usually build like on big factory for a group of items and have some leftover for expansion

[wind spade]

but the question is - what's the problem of having one machine with different clock speed? 🤔 it'll work the same

[median heath]

Stop solving forwards.

[empty seal]

Can you program the machines that precisely?

[wind spade]

no, you just build a new factory for every new item.

And even if you don't want to go that way, you still want to know your final goal, otherwise you'll either have too much or not enough.

Start with your goals and solve backwards

[wind spade]

yes, you can input clock speed up to 4 decimal places

[empty seal]

I didn't know I could type into the Clock Speed Line!!!!!!!

Or apperantly the Target Production Line

Wtf

[median heath]

Clock Speed line is the only line the game even reads.

The game does not give a shit what you put in the "per minute" line.

[wind spade]

well, it does. It uses that to calculate the clock speed and set your clock speed to "correct" value.

[empty seal]

Goddamn, could have saved me alot of work knowing that

[median heath]

Closest that it can**

[wind spade]

hence why correct is in quotes

[median heath]

I know, other people may not.

[empty seal]

So you mean, instead of building a production line for every item, I should just look what I have as the Phase Goals (500 Modular Engines and 100 Adaptive Control Units) and build Factories specific for those?

[median heath]

Imagine automating Project Parts...

[empty seal]

But is it then better to produce Parts near their Sources or rather transport the Resources to the Factory?

[median heath]

Better is subjective.

[wind spade]

yeah. Then you have exactly as much as you want for all intermediates. No more guessing game of "how much plastic and rubber will I need".

[wind spade]

it's less logistics, you build factories around nodes and transport only their products to storage. It's also more fps as you don't have one megafactory. But some people may like building everything in one place 🤷‍♂️

[empty seal]

"Staying in the here and now", who are you? My therapist? 😅 Guess this game can teach more than just Supply Lines and Logistics

[wind spade]

not caring about future consumption is pretty good way to play imo. Just build what you need now, if you need more later, you can always improve current production or just build another factory

[empty seal]

I tried that in the beggining, but I'm really starting to hate the one very big factory i built in the grass fields in the beggining cause it is very cluttered and difficult to navigate

I think I'll scrap the part of the factory I have so far again and go back to the grass fields and scrap that factory too. That's what I really like about the game, in the beginning I was always like "Ugh, no, I don't wanna start from scratch", now I don't even care anymore if I scrap something useful 😅

[median heath]

Embrace outposting and stop building just 1 factory 🤷‍♂️

[empty seal]

Yeah I'm getting there. I think the problem is also that I was somehow really tethered to the grass fields in the beginning, only recently starting to wander outward more

[median heath]

😬

Being tethered to the worst biome in the game.

[wind spade]

worst is subjective

[median heath]

Not in this case 😂

[wind spade]

yes in this case

[empty seal]

Is it? It's the suggested beginner biome, so I didn't even think about it

[wind spade]

since player goals are variable, you can't just have a biome that's bad for everything

[median heath]

Did you read the descriptions of the other biomes?

[empty seal]

Plus theres less Hogs to interupt me building in peace 😅

[deft pike]

it always makes me very happy when i load up my original factory in the grassy fields. i don't think the biome is that bad at all.

[wind spade]

it has a lot of building space, easily available biomass and supports outposting due to mid/late game nodes being farther from start location. Doesn't bother you with nodes you don't yet have use for. Is nicely flat (mostly) so trucks are great around there

[median heath]

Rocky Desert does all of this better.

[wind spade]

except biomass

[median heath]

EXCUSE ME???

[wind spade]

and nodes

[empty seal]

I started in U4 and I remember that the Rocky Desert was also an option, but I didn't read to deep into the description, especially cause I didn't even know what any of the descriptors meant

[median heath]

"Textbook FICSIT Landing Site"

[median heath]

Explain how RD, which has literal FIELDS OF WOOD, which burns BETTER THAN LEAVES and converts to MORE BIOMASS has worse biomass than GF?

[wind spade]

wiki says so 🤷‍♂️

[empty seal]

Yeah, but it also said "Desert", so I didn't know if my Pioneer would be thirsty at some point 😅

[median heath]

Wiki needs to be updated.

@deft lichen 😡

[wind spade]

also there's way more nodes in grass fields

[median heath]

Iron-
GF has the equivalent of 18 Normals
RD has 9 Normals, 8 Pures

[wind spade]

given that most of the time you're limited by belt, not by purity, it's not that relevant

[median heath]

Excuse the irritation as I was in the middle of building, but how the fuck else do you want me to compare?
Because once you get a mk2 belt you can handle the load from pure mk1...

[empty seal]

Thanks for the suggestion, just got it in a hard drive 😅

[median heath]

Decent until you get the Blender version.

[wind spade]

except when you start overclocking miners

[median heath]

Ok, but I would posit the average player isn't doing that until they have the mk3, given power constraints prior to Coal.

[wind spade]

average player also likes to do "I have a node, I want to use it for X", so having more nodes makes them able to do "more"

[median heath]

So we're at another agree to disagree moment because there is no possible way you can convince me the RD is not superior to the GF.
And vice versa.

[wind spade]

I'm not saying GF is the best biome, I'm just against calling it worst. Same as with alt recipes, there's meta, there's subjective opinion and then there's objective information.

[deft lichen]

@median heath which page is that on?

[median heath]

Ask @wind spade

[wind spade]

World page gives it two stars for biomass, GF has three

[deft lichen]

Alright I'll look into that

[finite sun]

starting location is irrelevant anyway except for the first 5-10 mins of gameplay, as you can get to any other spot in that time

and biomass from vegetation is now extremely irrelevant as well
since after U6 biomass from creatures >>>> biomass from plants

so practically only DD should get a lower score for biomass, as it has both less vegetation and less creatures
all other spots are pretty much the same

[swift robin]

so i dont need to bother cutting trees down in U6?

would be nice to get all my early power from combat

[finite sun]

you would need some power to unlock MAM
but afterwards trees are kinda outdated

[barren elm]

The more I look into optimizing building counts, the more I wonder whether it really is best to build where the nodes are, given how much water helps your builds

Of course logistics complicates that, and having water locally helps a lot

[median heath]

My main way of optimizing counts is overclocking. 🤷‍♂️

[barren elm]

I mean you can do both

[median heath]

True.

Given how I do outposting a lot of what I do is already next to nodes.

[barren elm]

Say, a single refinery making wet concrete + its 1 water extractor does the same work as 5.33 constructors (again, ignoring logistics, which of course matters)

[median heath]

So this run I'm taking it a step further and OCing like... everything.

[median heath]

Yes.
Another thing to look is what else you're going to be making.
Like, I use a lot of Rubber Concrete just because I'm usually already processing oil in an area.

[glacial hemlock]

True, using mashed dead aliens-biomass for power is very effective.

[swift robin]

very nice

[wind spade]

given the train problem, what kinds of questions would people like to have answered by a calculator?

f.e. "How much throughput can I get from a train with [number] of cars carrying [resource] with loop time being [loop time]?"
or: "How many cars do I need for a train to carry [resources per minute] of [resource] with loop time of [loop time]?"

what other kinds of questions would be nice to implement?

[vapid gorge]

and the elevation changes are more common to interupt vehicle paths. Rocky desert is garbage 😛

plus the colour pallet is painful

[median heath]

Yes.. the elevation changes in the flattest biome on the map...

[vapid gorge]

Ridges everywhere! The worst.

[deft pike]

Rocky Desert isn't terrible. It's not as nice a Grassy Fields, but it's still decent as long as you keep yourself walled in so that you don't have to look at it.

[median heath]

????????????

Haters... 😭

[vapid gorge]

Or if you go to the absolute edges of it to other zones to use THEIR resources xD

[median heath]

The trees in RD are beautiful.

[vapid gorge]

If I could have images in my mind they would be the trees I'd have to watch out for as they start animating at night and try to murder me in my dreams

[stark bronze]

the trees already suspiciously animate randomly

[versed violet]

Nah, they just react to virtual global wind, and there is only one tree of each species, just scaled to different sizes.

[stark bronze]

i thought its wind too but most of the time its just one single tree shaking violently

[finite sun]

it's one particular kind
they seem to switch from nonanimated LOD model to an animated one with exactly such timings that it makes them "shake violently" just as you approach
close by they don't have animations yet again, by the way

anyway, it's LOD switching, not "wind"

[stark bronze]

this is the most in depth explanation to that phenomenon ive seen
good to know we dont have to worry about the tree uprising

[barren elm]

Rocky desert has perhaps the largest single flat area in the world, assuming you're not counting the 40m high dune waves in dune desert as flat

[median heath]

Reasons I hate the DD...

[round bridge]

As someone who has done both Grassy fields and RD - Grassy area is better for starting area (t1 and t2). But once you pass tier 2, RD is vastly superior. RD starting area has access (by access I mean you can get there without a jetpack by foot or by explorer in a reasonable amount of time) to more advanced nodes (oil, caterium, quartz, sulfur, etc), more (accessible) hard drives, and more accessible water, and more accessible...well everything. You can literally go from t1-t8 without going more than 50 foundations out of it. Has easy access to the crater area (with 3 pure coal), has easy access to sulfur, easy access to the swamp oil nodes, has easy access to the oil nodes along the west coast, easy access to all of the pure nodes found in the grassy area.

[glacial hemlock]

Rocky desert is better because there is a lot of lootable high tier items at the nearby cave which makes start up super easy

[fierce prawn]

as someone who has never even seen the rocky desert ingame, I agree woth all the haters that it is utter dogcrap

[wind spade]

For experienced player maybe

[vapid gorge]

I will die on the hill of Rd is Awful. Specifically on one of the hills there with colours that are painful to look at. Which is all of them.

[barren elm]

Regarding trains, I think it'd be nice if you could throw in your signal distance length, intersection type and track count, and have it throw out how many trains per minute your track can support too

[median heath]

I'll come to your funeral since it is in the RD.

[barren elm]

Because there's gotta be a definitive answer to that question, and testing it is a nightmare

[median heath]

You want fewer trains though for max throughput.
So how would "this is the max number of trains" be helpful?

(Genuinely curious)

[vapid gorge]

There probably is with a lot of settings - but it'd be nigh impossible to implement

[barren elm]

What, do you load your whole factory onto 1 train?

[median heath]

You say that like I have 1 factory.

[vapid gorge]

nah just minimize the number of things I have to move by locating them near the materials I need

[barren elm]

I mean the calculator itself looks like black magic to my eyes already, so...

[median heath]

But technically, yes.
Having 1 train with many cars would get you the most throughput per car .

[vapid gorge]

For example my planned HMF factory only needs to import 3000 coal per min and like 200 plastic

[median heath]

Provided everything is connected to 1 rail.
Which I don't know why you would do.

[vapid gorge]

nah this would be way worse, it'd have to run simulations on how often trains would have to interact on your specific lines. update every time yo uchange it... it'd be a calculus nightmare

[vapid gorge]

Satisfactory tools is just arithmetic.

It's a lot of arithmatics, but nothing close to what you're suggesting

[barren elm]

What I had in mind was like a disembodied T junction, straight track, and a full intersection, where you say "Ok my signals are 8 foundations apart, I'm using the dumbest possible intersection type from a pre-selected list, so my track can support 3 trains per minute from this lane and 2 from that"

[vapid gorge]

is your train waiting for a load? Is it behind another train that is waiting for something else?

[barren elm]

The guy asked for train calculator ideas

[vapid gorge]

how many trains could possibly be waiting at any point in time at that junction?

I'm not even sure if there are tools or metrics in the game that could give you the information needed to calculate that

It's an interesting idea - almost certainly impossible to properly do.

[glacial hemlock]

Given the 3d nature of the game, satisfactory rail junction is a lot easier compared to the factorio counterpart.

[vapid gorge]

but at the same time probably a lot harder to set up a system that 'measures' everything

[stable helm]

Is it at all possible to make full use of a MK3 drill at 3 power shards and 250% overclock? I've been sitting here trying to engineer some sort of spaghetti balancing act to try and pull out the full amount of ore per minute, but the MK5 belts just don't seem capable of that.

[barren elm]

Short answer, no

Just set the drill rate to 780 per min and save yourself a shard

[stable helm]

Darn, okay.

[frosty owl]

Manually take out of the miner whatever doesn't fit on the belt. Easy and perfectly automatic

[stable helm]

[tender pollen]

They need an mk3.2 miner. same as mk3 but has 2 outputs.

[vapid gorge]

We could just reduce pure nodes maximum output to 780 😛

tbh nearly doubling pure nodes would reduce the use of logistics which is a main component of the game. You could much more easily concentrate factories bottom up to high tiers with that

[wind spade]

they'd need to fix double output priority first

[thick plank]

If you want full calculability, you could just simply build a great loop that covers all stations. Then you measure the time it takes to travel theough that loop for a train, measure the time needed for a full docking/undocking procedure with the diverging off the main track, take that by 2 and youd have a measurable time. Itll still be hard cause other trains might obstruct yours, but youll have a train network you can predict somewhat. The only problem is: its just not worth it then. Just plan with more capacity then you need. I basically always take twice or thrice as many railcars as you need throughput

(based on max throughput per station)

[thick plank]

Even better. Annoy the publishers till they put in a second output

[oblique hollow]

unlikely to happen straight away

2 output means you dont even need shards to get more out

[thick plank]

Yeah, but the longer it takes the more fun you can have by annoying jace

[oblique hollow]

as if jace is gonna fix it

[thick plank]

Nah, but hes the easiest target

And if hes inefficient and doesnt report that straight away and have it fixed, we have even more fun by annoying him! My plan is foolproof!

[oblique hollow]

the vicious cycle of jace

[thick plank]

Yes. Lets start by pinging him (can you even ping staff on this server?)

[oblique hollow]

yes

but id rather not

[thick plank]

Yeah… lemme get my second account, i can risk that one

[wind spade]

well by saying this you're risking your main one as well

also if you want something to be done, put it on QA site

[thick plank]

That was a joke

All of this was a joke

[wind spade]

we don't joke in #math-and-meta

[thick plank]

Im sorry professor

[deft pike]

Or just make it functionally two Mk2 miners in one machine, with two separate (disconnected) output trays as well as two separate ports. The question, then, would be whether they can be made to share shards/clockspeed.

Downside would be that each port would max as mk2 and you'd always have to output on two belts to get the full output. I don't see either of these as a tragedy, but it would complicate the upgrade process.

[wind spade]

that's way more work imo than to fix the issue that needs to be fixed anyway for ISCs

[deft pike]

I agree. It's much more efficient to solve just one problem that has to be solved anyway, than to solve that one plus another.

In spite of that, I still think it's worth observing other possible solutions when presented with an issue.

Also, I'm not sure what the cause is, so the amount of work is difficult for me to assess. For example, 600m3 pipe issue appears pretty simple on the face of it.

[vapid gorge]

does it?

Mk2 piping seems a bit weird tbh

[deft pike]

It's easy to assume what you already know and to make assumptions about what you don't. I'm not sure how to put this into words.

But, imagine someone who hasn't played with pipes much, and doesn't know much about how games work. They could assume that number goes in, number goes out, junctions split. Conceptually, no different than a conveyer. How hard can it be?

Once they've seen that there's fluid motion, sloshing, etc, it starts to become obvious that pipes are more complicated. And they might even realize that physics calculations are involved instead of simple number crunching, but do they even have a concept of what we're talking about when we say 'physics calculations.'

That's not inherently obvious from an abstract point of view.

Likewise, looking at the ISC, my viewpoint is abstract. And the ISC is a black box. Unlike pipes, I have less information about how it works. It's easy to assume it's simple, and seems reasonable, but perhaps it isn't, and perhaps there's a good reason that it isn't. (I do hope it is simple, though. 😄 )

As an aside, let me point something interesting about personal experience. I did my first playthrough without visiting the discord or looking at the wiki. This was U3/3.5 and I did my aluminium with the waste water recycling back into it, and thought it was obvious.

And had no issues. This wasn't a matter of genius. I just made certain assumptions. Some were right, and some were wrong, but it worked. It just worked. In part, I got lucky, and I thought piping was easy. Less finicky than it is. The only issues I had in that playthrough were minor. Headlift took a tiny bit of finagling to get the hang of, and I had a junction that leaked when feeding crude to my refineries at first. A little trial and error resolved it, and I just dismissed it.

But, the way fluid works has the potential to cause so many more issues than I'd assumed, and I've experienced some of them in subsequent playthroughs.

[vapid gorge]

In my experience whatever physics/programing issues mk2 have seem to be exacerbated when you have machines that have high draw rates on the manifold. Like I can get turbo fuel running fine on mk2s w/o a loop but they draw very little

[vapid gorge]

same with the waste and discord. Didn't even think about there being a discord for aaaages

[deft pike]

Yeah, my point being that it's easy to assume something is simple when your experience of it is simple. But, in some cases, that means you just aren't involved with it from an angle that will expose how complicated it is. ^^

[ruby field]

If you treat at situation as Simple, but it is Complicated or maybe even Complex, you might quickly fall into Chaos. When in Chaos, you need tremendous amount of work to get back to a comfortable level of understanding. Check out Cynefin framework

[oblique hollow]

Pipes pull you through that framework in a clockwise direction

[median heath]

https://tenor.com/view/agent-of-chaos-joker-heath-ledger-the-dark-knight-gif-17529035

[oblique hollow]

sooo.. re: #announcements
yippie i guess. generator overclocking finally becomes linear

[median heath]

Specific to just generators?

[oblique hollow]

ye

[cinder silo]

That'll cause marginal issues with my nuke plant, generators are clocked to 106.5% in order to get me the required 105% I wanted.

[oblique hollow]

so its no longer 250% = 202.something% power

[median heath]

I'm fine with that.
Nukes can't be put to 250% though.

[oblique hollow]

nukes get fixed to like 240 water at 100% or something

[median heath]

Oh.

If it is solely generators being changed that makes sense.

[oblique hollow]

maybe 200 so 2.5 x 200 = 500 and you dont need full mk 2pipes

[median heath]

Meh, they might make it 500 in prep for when mk2s become 500.

[oblique hollow]

yeah, thats my thought

its a good thing anyway

[median heath]

Indeed.

[oblique hollow]

5 water extractors to 3 nukes at 100%

[median heath]

I'm happy they didn't make it unilateral linear OC.

[oblique hollow]

its a nice ratio

i think i remember reading from you once that you'd hate if this happened, gen OC becoming linear

thought may be misremebering

[magic island]

generators OCing to weird non-round numbers was a pain and I'm glad it's sorted out now

[median heath]

Solely applying to gens is fine.
My preference was they just make the gen UI more accurate, but this is a simpler solution that is good for most people.

[oblique hollow]

that also means all generator builds can become 25% smaller now

[cinder silo]

General Machine OC iirc is all about the trade-off, for generators, I would have expected them to cap the shards at 2 then make it linear to not stuff up balance.

[oblique hollow]

due to the increase of 200% to 250%

however.....

i did NOT check if fuel ratio stays linear

[magic island]

yes, fuel:power ratio will stay linear

[median heath]

How much they consume with respect to clock was always linear.
So the trade was just shards for space.

This just makes that trade cleaner.
Making production buildings linear with power is what breaks balance. @oblique hollow

[oblique hollow]

just checked: yup

[carmine wigeon]

I do like that (until they change fluids to 500 cap or whatever they decide for mk2) you can feed 2 nuclear gens with 4 extractors without worrying about mk2 shenanigans

[oblique hollow]

also: awesome sink point rebalance

plus: DNA capsules get their own point counter in the sink

soooo killing mobs may prove efficient to farm points

[median heath]

I am watching this video when I go on lunch 😭

[magic island]

not a math/meta change but I'm stoked about the conveyor QOL changes. auto-switching to wall mounts and the new ceiling mounts, wahoo

[oblique hollow]

definitely. Ceiling mounts tho 👀

STACKABLE even

[carmine wigeon]

Yeah that is pretty exciting 😄

I can go back and make previous floating conveyors look respectable now

[median heath]

@oblique hollow finished watching.
Only thing itching in my brain is that "peaceful mode" is going to trivialize protein collection, which makes getting tickets a cakewalk...

[oblique hollow]

well... maybe they rebalance drops in peaceful

[median heath]

I kinda hope so 🤷‍♂️

[wind spade]

what if peaceful also means you can't hurt them? 😛

[median heath]

You have to be able to get some drops from them, because the MAM requires it.

[wind spade]

doggos

they do bring them, right?

[median heath]

Never left them alive long enough to find out.

[wind spade]

according to wiki they bring carapace and organs, idk if that's enough for mam

(also do you need the alien tree if stuff is on peaceful?)

[median heath]

Hatchers would potentially be indestructible in peaceful because they will never open.

[median heath]

True.

[wind spade]

out of this, pretty much only the slots are useful 🤔

[median heath]

Yeah.

[vernal dove]

Inhaler is not so bad

[wind spade]

in peaceful mode?

[vernal dove]

oh

peaceful mode

[wind spade]

the discussion was about alien remains in peaceful mode

[vernal dove]

well

it will probably still have toxin plants, rocks and radiation and fall damage

so It is probably still worth it

the mobs will still exist, they will just not attack the player

[wind spade]

we have natural regen iirc

[median heath]

True.

[little shard]

I want to maximise my concrete from an impure node with a mk2 miner

[median heath]

Use Tools.

[little shard]

Yeah ik that 😂

I’m on about maximising it

[median heath]

Tools has a maximize setting.

[barren elm]

You can just shoot them at range atm and they die without opening

[median heath]

Odd...

[median heath]

Discussion wasn't aimed at if it was good or not.
My initial point was that peaceful mode may make it too good.

As you can just farm mobs that will never fight back.

[wintry aurora]

Re OC discussion earlier: Sounded like the only solid change was making generator OC in line with machines.

[wintry aurora]

Unless they make it so that they don't drop stuff? But then with the change of making the data canisters sinkable....

[median heath]

That's part of my point.

Cakewalk drops from creatures that don't fight = points out the ass. 🤷‍♂️

[wintry aurora]

Could do drop rates or something, but everybody knows about MC mob farms, so.....

[barren elm]

I've gotta ask, does anyone actually care about ticket balance in a peaceful mode?

[wintry aurora]

I think Snutt said that wasn't in U7 though and is something highly requested but won't be until later.

[median heath]

Creative won't be.
Peaceful will be.

[median heath]

This is fair.
Creative/Peaceful modes are unbalanced by nature. So probably doesn't matter at all.

[wintry aurora]

Oh, I thought he said creative would be.

[median heath]

No

Creative won't be until closer to launch.

[wintry aurora]

'k

[echo mantle]

Is a lizard doggo farm possible?

[wintry aurora]

Yes, plenty of people have done that. Not sure if the bug where doggos can go through walls was fixed, but I haven't heard anything about it in a while.

[median heath]

If you make the mistake of letting them live, yes.

[wintry aurora]

Actually, I had a thought, maybe have them only attack if you attack them? The devs are going to have to find a happy medium somewhere in there.

[echo mantle]

Wait what

[wintry aurora]

If you mean me, it was in response to the conversation a bit earlier.

[wind spade]

my idea was that peaceful mode works both ways - they can't attack you, you can't attack them

[wintry aurora]

But then creatures get in the way of stuff and then what? Not everybody is going to do skyfactories.

[covert coral]

yea

or creatures just get teleported outside of the buildzone once you place things

[wintry aurora]

You haven't experienced bean/confusing creature/space whale mucking about in your factory, so, it's understandable how you'd come up with that.

[median heath]

What Tsu said is spot on though.

The mode inherently throws balance out the window.
Not as far as creative does, but trying to balance the alt modes is somewhat pointless.

[vapid gorge]

Well... peaceful mode atm isn't really... working your way through tiers, mostly just a learning combat time sink. So depends on what you consider core gameplay? You can also just sit in your base for days w/o fighting things and get points

[sudden hedge]

what the hell im i doing wrong here, some of the gennys are running out of water

[median heath]

Read the building description for mk1 pipes.
Then read the building description for Water Extractors.

Then do 300 - (120 * 3)

[barren elm]

This is what you're doing wrong

[median heath]

Fastest fix:

Delete yellow X
Reroute with green line.
Shut off 1 of the generators to let the pipes fill completely then turn it back on.

Repeat similar steps for the other line.

[visual yarrow]

Much less fast fix: progress to the point where you unlock mk 2 pipes

I personally prefer to underclock my water extractors to 75% each and to use one water extractor per two coal generators, since it simplifies the setup and also gives me a easy and lazy way to increase my power generation capacity via overclocking if I need more power but don't want to build new infrastructure.

Actually, speaking of clock speed, you could also set each extractor to 75%, and each coal generator to 59.0311%. That should give each generator a consumption rate of approximately 66.666...% of their standard rate, so 30 units of water/m per.

The downside, of course, would be that you'd be only getting the equivalent of 12 generators worth of power, rather than 18.

[sand epoch]

Not for long.. lol

[visual yarrow]

Yeah, but then you just would need to change the clock speed to 66.6667%.

[median heath]

Cries in imprecision 😭

[visual yarrow]

Just change it back and forth from that and 66.6666% as much as you feel is necessary, simple.

[median heath]

This works only if you build in 3's.

[visual yarrow]

I was joking, I meant to literally change each generator's clock speed by hand, periodically.

[median heath]

😭

[glacial hemlock]

Just don't plug all 3 water into 1 mk1 pipe, it should be easy

[honest nebula]

3 x 120 water pumps fills 8 power gen 45*8/3 = 120 not 9 or 18
Plus with 300 pipes you want two pipes, one 120 and the other 240 then just fill each end or somewhere in the middle to stop overflow

I just started new game again the set this up really quick to show you
3 x water pump for 8 generators with 2 pipes (120 + 240) x 2 for 16 generators

[mortal gust]

I really wanna start playing again but I'm having a hard time to optimise my builds, I always get to the first elevator tier then I grow sick of it.. Mostly cause I run around and craft everything myself, also I'm having a hard time to use these calculators that are pinned, like I wanna know how many smelters I can have hooked up to one miner etc etc xD

[deft lichen]

which calculators have you tried?

[mortal gust]

Satisfactory Production Chain Calculators:
https://www.satisfactorytools.com/ (Made by @wind spade )
https://satisfactory-calculator.com/ (Made by @AnthorNet (Calculator/Map) )
https://daniel2013.github.io/satisfactory/calculator

Might using them wrong ofc..

[honest nebula]

best way to get started is to just use a bus system rather than calculating everything then sink all excess
once you get to higher tiers you get better at factory optimization, but I wouldn't worry about it too much early on

[deft lichen]

hard disagree, buses in general just perform really poorly in this game

[deft lichen]

what would you like to produce? I can send a satisfactorytools layout here and explain it

[honest nebula]

at the end of the day its personal preference

[deft lichen]

it is, there's a difference between playing a certain way and suggesting others to play the same

if you use buses and are fine with it - sure, you do you 😄

[vapid gorge]

Might I make a suggestion?

If you haven’t powered through the tiers yet don’t worry about optimising.
Have a node for screws, one for plates, ect and connect things.

Keep containers to store tons of parts then connect them to make new ones. Just unlock things and learn.

That method works for me.
Now I’m making clockwork precise systems

[deft lichen]

I do have to agree that trying to optimize for the late game early on is pointless, focus on what you need to progress and build as you go

[honest nebula]

eh, there's nothing wrong with suggesting people use a bus system early game, especially if you just want to have a bit of fun and hate maths lol

[deft lichen]

just don't get used to buses too much, I guess

[grave flume]

I'm relatively new and that's how I'm going about it with basic factories. Then hand feeding the parts into storage boxes for manufacturers. I've used a lot of vehicles but haven't touched trains yet.

[honest nebula]

I'm over 1000hrs and all my factories are bus and run great, they just take time fill up

and all the excess is sinked

[deft lichen]

by bus you mean main bus or manifold?

[honest nebula]

bus through put

meaning any extra comes out a smart splitter into a sink

[deft lichen]

I don't think we're talking about the same bus

a main bus is a logistic strategy where all parts are on a series of belts, and each factory pulls and puts back to these belts
a manifold is a machine fill system where there's a splitter for each machine, that feeds the machine and next splitter in line

[honest nebula]

yea, probably getting mixed up with semantics

since I'm not an engineer and just play games for fun lol

[vapid gorge]

You don’t even need to hand feed if you belt from a storage container:)

[glacial hemlock]

Bus are overrated.

Bus are useful in factorio because ore does deplete can cause fluctuation. In SF just build dedicated belts. This belt goes here, that belt goes there.

[rancid acorn]

hello... i tried the different websites for calculating but i'm not finding exactly what i want...
i just want to say hey i have 600 iron ore, i have 600 coal ore, tell me how many steel beam i can do (for example)

but the websites are always asking for how many beams i want to reach....but i don't want to specify that...i just want to know how much MAX i can produce with "what i have" ... is there a way to do that ? am i missing something ?

[wind spade]

satisfactory tools allow you to do that

[oblique hollow]

you select steel beams and then "maximize"

[oblique hollow]

you have to click on "input,items" and limit coal and iron to 600

then maximize

[rancid acorn]

haaaaaaaa maximise .. so simple !! thank youuu

ok this one is proposing that but no the other one, so strange, thanks again

[wind spade]

what other one do you mean? 🤔

or rather, what do you mean?

[rancid acorn]

sorry i meant the other website that i supposed we all use :

https://satisfactory-calculator.com/en/planners/production

[wind spade]

based on feedback I feel like most people use Tools for calculating stuff and only use Calculator for it's map

though I don't really know for sure and I'm trying to stay away from assumptions given that I've made Tools 🙂

[cinder silo]

I tried using calculator for calculating, it didn't work out for me.

[barren elm]

........................TIL there's a calculator on the map site

Then again I see no import/export option nor tabs, which is like, so incredibly useful it's unreal

Maybe I'm just blind

[wintry aurora]

Same, just too much visual noise and I’d rather figure out the logistics specifics myself.

I also tried factoriolab and while the layout works for Dyson Space Program, it doesn’t work so well for Satisfactory for me.

[frail geyser]

does somebody know a diagram or the rates you need for this kinda setup without a blender? id like to make 280 Plastic with the least amount of oil and no/as least as possible byproduct left over

[wintry aurora]

Just turn off the diluted alt recipe so that it uses the packaged one.

[frail geyser]

which calculator is used in the image? ive just took that one from the wiki

nvm found it

[wintry aurora]

Oh, that’s Satisfactory Tools, link is in welcome.

@frail geyser Also, a word of warning, using the maximize function won’t actually show the efficient route, it just maximizes it, but sounds like you already know what you’re looking for.

[frail geyser]

thanks for the tip, yeah just need plastic for computers and dont wanna import more liquid than i have to

[ember fractal]

Hyped for the change to power gen overclocking

[honest nebula]

200% OC makes power consumption increase from 12mw to 36.4mw
Anyone know why it's x3 and not x2?

[wintry aurora]

Because it’s not the same as machine overclock.

[honest nebula]

this is on a miner

[wintry aurora]

Oh, I thought you meant on a generator, read too fast and made assumption. Maybe check the overclock page on wiki?

!wikisearch overclock

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=overclock

[honest nebula]

I thought they had changed it a bit

[frail geyser]

no not yet, some changes are coming in u7 but only to power generators

[wintry aurora]

They were looking into changing something in U6, but decided not to.

[honest nebula]

ah ok

[honest nebula]

This is like reading a foreign language 🙂
I understand logic and basic arithmetic but yeah, not a mathmagician or an engineer Lol

[frail geyser]

the graphs are easier to understand, power consumptions doesnt follow a linear path is the main takeaway

[glacial hemlock]

the page wasn't like that a year ago. I guess maybe some nerds added too much to the page.

[barren elm]

All you really need to know is that the power consumption goes up faster than the speed bonus

[median heath]

Which is necessary to make it a tradeoff.

[frosty pawn]

Because otherwise it wouldn't be a game.

[median heath]

Not sure how many people need this conversion, but apparently 1 NukeNob/min = 0.6 Uranium Fuel Rods/min.

So if you had max Ur Rods of 50.4/min, and wanted to start making NukeNobs, that's how many you're losing per.

[sand epoch]

Worth it

[ivory thicket]

if it's not wiping out a whole biome, I don't know...

[median heath]

Math came up because my goal for Nobs this run is 10/min of each (not including Gas)

[echo mantle]

Why tho

[median heath]

Setting production goals is one of the main points of the entire game.

[echo mantle]

Are you after phase 8

Or whatever the last space elevator thing is

[median heath]

I'm in T7-8, yes.

[sand epoch]

I think I did 5pm on all nobs

10-20 for ammo depending on type. And 5 on rebars

[lyric rune]

NVM, found a likely explanation.

[glacial hemlock]

Nuke nobelisk is underpowered. Can't even kill a bean in 1 shot

[near zenith]

there's your problem, they're balanced around the assumption that we'll use 50 to kill everything in a 2 mile radius

[warm sequoia]

what is the meta for coal generators to water pumps, i think its 12 to 5, and my buddy is saying 8 to 3

[fierce cypress]

8:3

[warm sequoia]

why? ill accept any reasoning, im just trying to understand, cuz gens take 50 water, and pumps make 120

[fierce cypress]

1 gen needs 45 water/min and 15 coal/min
8 gens need 360 water/min and 120 coal/min
360 water = 3 water ext (120/min each) + 120 coal/min

[warm sequoia]

then why do gens say they take 50?

[fierce cypress]

they say 45?

[warm sequoia]

im looking at it, it says 50

[median heath]

No, it says it can HOLD 50

[warm sequoia]

THANKYOU

THAT was my problem

[median heath]

👍

[dense mantle]

Anyone know a method to get 100% efficiency of each production?

[frail geyser]

feed exactly what a machine needs, when it needs 20 of something give it 20,

[fierce ruin]

Remember if you have only Mk1 pipes you need two supply pipes from every direction when running 8 coal generators.

As it is 360 m2 versus 300 on the Mk1 pipes.

[eager cradle]

I'd suggest not being too much into 100% efficiency before unlocking Mk5logistics

Unless you like recreating your factories often, which is fine

[frosty pawn]

IMO best to build in a way that you can just repeat a whole factory floor to double production, that way a belt will double the speed would be required to feed it

very simple to manage

[fierce ruin]

You'll soon learn this by heart. It's 30 ore/min and that means it's 2 smelters per normal node and 4 per pure.

And the ratio is 1:1

[wind spade]

I'd suggest the exact opposite. 100% efficient factories are great

[limber cradle]

I'm redesigning my aluminum factory, which recipes should I use?

[median heath]

2 options that give the most output:

Instant Scrap
Sloppy Alumina + Electrode Scrap

If you want to use Coal, use Instant.
If you want to use Coke, use Sloppy + Electrode.

[limber cradle]

thanks

is this fine?

actually nevermind

too much coal

[wheat cypress]

Hey everyone!

I was hoping to get an opinion on this.

In my world, I smelt resources at the node and then belt all of those ingots into train stations.

Those trains all lead back to a central train hub (4 stations, 12 freight platforms) on the map where I sort and store the ingots. I have a container for each raw/smelted resource (Iron ingot, Steel ingot, raw quarts, sulfur, etc.). I have train stations set up to only take certain resources. For example, station 1 is taking iron ingots, copper ingots, and steel ingots.)

Finally, I belt those resources into different buildings, where the product is created.

Is this setup best practice? I've been struggling to try to run belts from these containers to the buildings due to the number of outputs I have.

[limber cradle]

I tend to smelt materials on site where i build since I have an abundance of water there

[median heath]

I would say hard no to the question of it being "best practice".

Mainly because you "store ingots".

[mortal gust]

Probably will do that 🙂

But do you know any good sites to use to get the know how to let's say: keep a pure iron node with.. Let's say a mk1 miner to feed how many furnaces etc etc 😛

Cause today i have a mk1 on a pure feeding 6 furnace's and the treadmill is full of incoming ore so I have no clue xD

[limber cradle]

https://u6.satisfactorytools.com/production

this is a lovely calculator

[mortal gust]

I'm having a hard time learning how to use it hahaha

Maybe I just have to do some try n error haha

[wheat cypress]

Would it make more sense to run the ingots straight from the train to the buildings that need the resource?

Would I be limited by the number of outputs available? 12 freight platforms = 24 outputs?

[mortal gust]

#overthinking

[wheat cypress]

Literally me every time I start something in this game lol

[median heath]

If you're transporting you want to do it with the highest compression.
So usually you want to process further than Ingots and then ship those products.

Like shipping Iron Plates will take less slots than shipping Ingots.

Heck, if you're using Pure Iron it's actually more compressed to just ship the ore.

[wheat cypress]

Ahh, I see. That does make sense.

Hmmm, I guess I will have to redesign some stuff then.

Thanks for the input! I appreciate it.

[median heath]

I can give you the storage list if you want to avoid having containers of things you should just let ride on belts.

[wheat cypress]

That would be dope!

[median heath]

Non-consumable items worth storing:

Plate, RIP, Beam, EIB
Pipe, Rod, ECR
CSheet, ASheet, Plastic, Rubber
Frame, HMF, FMF
Wire, QW, Cable
Crystal, Osc
CB, HSC, AIL
Rotor, Stator, Motor, Turbo
Comp, RCU, Super
Casing, Cooling
Concrete, Silica

33 in total.

[sand epoch]

Lies.. o0. Store everything! Muahahaha

[deft pike]

tbh, i feel like storage containers are about 5 times too large for most of the things i want to store.

[median heath]

Normal ones or the ISCs?

[deft pike]

Meant normal.
I'm usually only pulling 5 or 6 stacks of a given thing into my bags, since anything but straight up cement-laying takes multiple components to craft.
Sure, I can stash extra in the tractor for outposts, but if I'm needing to do that, I'll setup some production on, or near, the site.

[median heath]

Fair.
When I go to build outposts though I am loading a truck or a train up and taking it with me.
So that's more than 5-6 stacks of things.

[deft pike]

That works, but ... I don't know. Feels like living out of a suitcase. I'd rather get the infrastructure up and then pull off that.

[median heath]

"I'd rather get the infrastructure up and then pull off that."?

So you want me to make a new line to build Iron Plates at each outpost location instead of drawing from the amount already being stored/min?

[deft pike]

lol. not saying you should, but there's iron near everywhere. if i'm using it in my outpost, i'm making plates anyway, and if i'm not, well 1 miner and 1 constructor and a bit of belt to make plates is hardly sweating it (and storage, which is part of why i'd like it smaller)

course, there's rods and cement, etc, but yeah. it's like a 5 or so minute aside

[median heath]

You do outposting differently than I.

Each site has a specific item it is going to produce. And it doesn't do other things.

Also power is the last thing brought to an outpost area, so nothing would be running locally while I am building it.

[deft pike]

ah, i string power as i explore, so if i'm there, there's power

[deft pike]

yep. tis true.

[median heath]

Just... as you explore?

So you have random powerlines just.. going places?

[deft pike]

i really don't care if my outpost is a bit short of plates, rods, etc while i'm still working on it. i get the early stuff going and pull off that, then sink the excess, then feed it into the higher tier stuff as i build that, and sink that instead.

[deft pike]

lol, all over. makes good zipline if i want to travel that way, means i can just decide to place roads with lighting or a base, whatever, whereever the whim takes me because, hey, power isn't far

i do try to keep the lines neat, and stuff the poles in among trees so they're less visible from afar, though.

[median heath]

Heresy...

😭

[deft pike]

😂 🤷

when i leave, no matter where the doggos roam, there will always be little indications reminding them that 'i was here'
ficsit isn't the boyscouts

[barren elm]

Best practice for most raw resources involves water, which of course massively complicates things and usually prevents you smelting at the source, tho I wouldn't worry about it unless you're worried about using all the resources on the map

[deft pike]

my last 40 or so hours in game were a result of this method. i was looking for drives and got up into the northeast part of dunes and thought, 'oh, hey why don't i make a coal plant here for fun.' i had the power lines, so i could hook it up, no problem. i didn't need it, but i started building and the project ... has spiralled out of control.

i now have an alien spaceship docked to an alien obelisk, next to a little mining village with half a dozen structures.

but, i've been back to the HUB all of once in that time 😆

[wheat cypress]

Noted! I don't plan on mining the world.

What are your thoughts on using trains to bring in ingots from the nodes to a central location for product creation?

Do you agree that it is not very efficient?

[barren elm]

That's a massive "it depends", ideally you want to compress resources as much as possible before transport

Ingots are not very compressed compared to, say, reinforced iron plating

Hell if you're using pure recipes or alloy alts, ingots are less compressed than ore

Personally, and this isn't some kind of "one size fits all" answer, I load ores onto trains, wash them with pure recipes, and then turn them into a mid-tier product in a mini factory, before shipping them off

[median heath]

If I may offer another opinion:

Don't centralize.

[wheat cypress]

Interesting, I'll keep that in mind! Thank you for the input.

[wheat cypress]

Can you elaborate on this, please?
I am super interested in hearing your take on this.

[median heath]

After work I got you 👍
Decentralized is the only way I build

[deft lichen]

don't wanna read the entire discussion, but here's my "ideal" strategy in summary:
early to midgame parts (T0-T4) are best made in outposts that do ore->result
mid to lategame parts either combine parts made elsewhere or are also made ore->result
outposts are good because 1. there's no need to transport raw resources from remote areas and 2. megafactories cause lag
there's no need to store parts that are not used for building or progression
@wheat cypress

[glacial hemlock]

decentralized also fps friendly. When near any large scale factory fps will suffer, so you should spread out whenever possible

[deft lichen]

funny thing is that I suck so I don't fully follow this strategy, but I would like to

[glacial hemlock]

like, ship iron plate, don't ship iron ingot. As they stack 3x as much in trains. Even for iron rod which has 1:1 ratio, they still stack 2x as much

[barren elm]

Tbh depending on your choice of recipes, iron plate is pretty uncompressed too

[deft lichen]

what'd you ship that many iron plates for

[deft pike]

in addition to what ondar said
decentralization also encourages you to refine designs and learn from what you've built previously.

when you put more in one single place, it becomes more headache to plan out and more trouble to repair/improve.
this would push you toward settling on a design to accommodate everything and if you mess up, you have to tear up a larger percentage of your infrastructure to rebuild. and that discourages adopting better ideas that you may have mid-process.

with outposts, each one is improved with what you learned from the previous, and if you decide one needs rebuilding, you can rebuild just that. you don't have to redesign other parts of your factory around it, just to make it fit.
so, you get nicer, and better results each time you make an outpost, and then you go back to your first one and think 'oh boy, this could be way better. guess i'll just tear it up and replace it, nbd.' 😂

oops @wheat cypress i toggled off the ping (habit), but this was for you^

[coarse stratus]

my brain is turned off, how do i load balance one belt to 5

[cinder silo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPE-BAlg0xA&list=PLQo-FPWWaZE-jn38NUxfxh5S2VyJNjnO3&index=4

[coarse stratus]

thank

pray gaze upon the absolute ugliest but balanced lines

[median heath]

Manifold it

!wikisearch manifold

[shadow prairie]

https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Search?query=manifold

[coarse stratus]

oh huh, i thought that wouldn't work well until the first item was filled

[median heath]

Are you planning to shut this line off at some point?

Because a couple minutes of spool time in the context of a line that will run infinitely is... irrelevant.

[coarse stratus]

nope but it is part of a power scheme

[median heath]

Can also skip the spool time by just pre-feeding the system.

[coarse stratus]

oh, duh

thanks

[pallid crown]

Is this normal?

[median heath]

Yes

[pallid crown]

Ahh… ok

Thx

[hearty matrix]

do gases follow the same rules as fluids?

[median heath]

Gases are fluids... so yes.
But they are fluids with infinite headlift, so they do not require pumps.

[vapid gorge]

Except don't use buffers with them - they act really funny.
You can transport them in fluid cars but it takes some precise methods, generally easier to package it first and then move it.

[hearty dune]

Compacted Steel Ingot > Solid Steel ingot yes?

[hearty matrix]

Okay, very good to know, i would need pumps with my current location

[median heath]

Not exactly.

All 3 steel alts are better than base.
Which one is best depends on your situation.

If you have free sulfur in the local area and want to use it, - yes, Compacted is amazing.

[fierce ruin]

Typically I'd say solid steel.

[median heath]

Compacted beats Solid until you bring Pure Iron into the equation.

[hearty dune]

I"m in N forest, so I have only 2 (maybe 3 if I wanna belt sulfur 1200 meters) normal sulfur nodes; but I have like 7 coals

I"m at the end of tier 4 and reworking the iron base, dont have pure iron as I haven't unlocked 5/6 yet

[median heath]

Then yes, use Compacted.

[fierce ruin]

Save for turbofuel. 😁

[hearty dune]

(I"ve got the alt recipie, just not the refinery)

[hearty matrix]

I really havent touched the train system yet, i have a box with the materials for all the stations that i need though, but i can package it and sink it?

[median heath]

Don't neglect Coke Steel as an option when you get to T5-6.

Like I said, all 3 alts are better than base.
Which one is best depends on your situation.

[vapid gorge]

if you want but it's moderately expensive in materials to package and sink gas.

[vapid gorge]

Often the idea with packaging and shipping gas is at the destination you unpackage it and ship the containers back

[barren elm]

Yeah steel is one of those things where every single alt recipe has a use

[hearty dune]

Dunno if I have that recipie. Mostly I was on a crusade against screws, and managed to get all the other recipies in the process of finding iron wire XD

[barren elm]

Compacted steel is nice because sulfur isn't actually used in high quantities

[hearty matrix]

gotcha, i am fairly new to the game, only had it for about 3 weeks, but i have sunk over 200 hours in it

[fierce ruin]

Both are definitely better than the original recipe. 😁

[median heath]

You won't be able to roll it until you unlock oil.

[vapid gorge]

It's all learning process and figuring out how YOU like to do things.

[fierce ruin]

Not early at least

[barren elm]

Not late either

[fierce ruin]

We used quite a lot of sulfur

[barren elm]

You will run out of every other resource long before you use 100% sulfur

[vapid gorge]

even later tbh unless you're doing very specific things

[hearty matrix]

right, i have noticed EVERYONE has a different way of doing things, lol... even the major streamers

[median heath]

Only high-volume uses of Sulfur is maxed nuclear production and if you're using Instant Scrap for aluminium.

[fierce ruin]

It's a game where there's several ways.

And stuff is situational.

[vapid gorge]

Figure out what you like and run with it 🙂
I like making circular architecture mixed with big production lines - while keeping things compact with minimal logistics XD

It's not the easiest way to make stuff but I'm enjoying it

[median heath]

Only way I can see people running out is if for some unknown reason they are making large quantities of Turbofuel... 😭

[north canyon]

hi boys. i have a problem. server time out. but 5 min ago we play together and all was ok

[fierce ruin]

I used cheap silica recipe at a place. 🙂

[median heath]

Not really a meta problem?
#dedicated-servers would know the most about multiplayer issues.

[north canyon]

oh my fall sorry

[median heath]

That's arguably the only way anyone should make Silica.

[hearty matrix]

this is what i am working on right now, im still in the process of hooking everything up

[vapid gorge]

what are the manufacturers making?

[median heath]

Items 😉

[hearty matrix]

si, lol

i am making the module frames

[median heath]

HMFs I would assume.

[hearty matrix]

yesth

[vapid gorge]

the best response to continue a conversation 😛 technically correct

[median heath]

[vapid gorge]

ah nice. Those seem like the first big challenge people go 'oh no' to. Besides pipes

[hearty matrix]

well its being fed by 7 pure nodes

[median heath]

They are the first four-input item you are supposed to automate.

[hearty matrix]

7 pure pipes for 8 blenders, hoping that math works out, i just kinda build until it works

[vapid gorge]

C H O N K Y

[hearty matrix]

build an overflow system on the side and sink it, lol

[vapid gorge]

C H O N K Y

[hearty matrix]

ive been real lucky with most of my nodes, they have been mostly pure

[vapid gorge]

northern forest right?

ah actually west coast from that last pic I think

[hearty matrix]

yeah, im mainly in the grass plains and west coast

[vapid gorge]

Different areas are good for different things (locally)

[hearty matrix]

im starting to notice that

[hearty dune]

So thinking if I can get something on the order of 900 steel ingots/min off of 1 sulfur node (compacted steel) then I should be doing bolted plate, not stitched plate (utilizing steel screws), and steeled frame probably, then all I"m using straight iron for is the iron plates in the bolted plate

[median heath]

Stitched > Bolted

Bolted legit sucks.

[hearty dune]

really? even at 5/min?

[honest nebula]

why does 10mw under clock show as 12.9mw???

[median heath]

Costs more per plate.
You're better off just using Base compared to Bolted tbh.

Stitched is the cheapest cost per RIP.

Especially when using Iron Wire.

[vapid gorge]

It uses a bit more iron per part. It's not a huuuge deal but it is a bit more expensive

[median heath]

@hearty dune keep in mind that "faster" is a misleading metric when it comes to recipes.
All "faster" equates to is "space-saving".

[hearty dune]

hates fractions

Ahh I see, given that steel beams are still 4 steel ingots

time to get all analog on this mother sucker digs up pen and paper

[vapid gorge]

I mean the benefit is being able to make more compact factories - which might be something you want and willing to trade a bit more iron for

[median heath]

Where fractions?

[wind spade]

adhered

[median heath]

True, but they are still in T3-4 atm.

[wind spade]

idk I didn't see context, I just nitpicked your message 🤷‍♂️ 😛

[hearty dune]

(he) but yeah haven't unlocked 5/6 yet. Do have every single other iron related recipie that I can use at this stage tho

[vapid gorge]

It is fun to nitpick Sev

[hearty dune]

Maybe I just force 5 and get refineries

[vapid gorge]

I was never a fan of adhered plate tbh

[barren elm]

Oil is basically a catalyst to sprinkle upon a resource of your choosing to make it 5-6x more effective

[median heath]

I mean you hate trucks.
So your judgment is obviously impaired.

[hearty dune]

TBF truck pathing used to suck the big one

[vapid gorge]

Though when it replaces Iron ... eh. Always more iron around

[hearty dune]

I haven't even tried to see if its better yet

[median heath]

Imagine living in the past...

[hearty dune]

cant be bothered to set up refueling lol

[vapid gorge]

It is - But I find them a bit clunky for how I play.

[hearty dune]

ahhh makes sense

[vapid gorge]

Like.. they are significantly better and will put themselves back o na path if they fall off stuff. But still

[fierce ruin]

I find that my vehicles get stuck too often.

[vapid gorge]

... recently?

[barren elm]

Man my vehicles are upside down whenever I see them and they still deliver on time

They don't even use their wheels

[fierce ruin]

Haha, mine fall off the natural bridges.

[vapid gorge]

The game universe is actually an instance where sentient life lives in a simulation. A simulation running at 5%

[fierce ruin]

Then they ghost back up.

[median heath]

99.99% of trucking issues in a post-U3 world are user error.

[hearty dune]

Never have any issues with belts.... they dont need fuel, fall off things, or complain about needing coffee breaks

[vapid gorge]

You might need to widen those bridges xD

[fierce ruin]

Probably considered the driving skill of the AI drivers.

[vapid gorge]

There's different issues for different people with running long belts
-can be ugly
-long belts suffer from max throughput loss
-belts probably consume more computer resources

[barren elm]

Yeah belts are perfect, so perfect that it's really easy to get bored of making everything belt based

[hearty dune]

I agree with all of the above points

[barren elm]

Like having trucks, drones and trains roaming around just looks neat

[hearty dune]

I just skip trucks and wait for trains

[vapid gorge]

ditto XD

[barren elm]

Give them a second go they're really good now

[vapid gorge]

I'll also plan my factories so that belts never have to go far or do it in such a way that they are embeded with other infrastructure

[fierce ruin]

I use the vehicles to deliver to train stations primarily in areas with rough terrain.

[hearty dune]

I"ll look into it, maybe with a collector train station or some such

[median heath]

I skip trains 🙂

[fierce ruin]

Unless I get drones...

[median heath]

Trucks being able to handle 1560 throughput means my need for a train isn't until I start closing in on nuclear-level builds.
Even then... 🤷‍♂️

[vapid gorge]

Everyone likes different things 🙂

[median heath]

You like Doom...

[barren elm]

Trains are the only reason to play factory games

[median heath]

Hardest of disagrees.

[fierce ruin]

It's really factorish

[vapid gorge]

I'm not a big fan?

[fierce ruin]

Being an old fan of Transport Tycoon I just have to use trains.

Plus the massive bass sound of them moving away is cool.

Mind soothing.

[hearty dune]

Ahhh got it I see where my assumption was wrong with bolted; I'm saving iron on the additive but loosing craploads more on the iron plates themselves. Understood 😄

[vapid gorge]

do you use satisfactorytools.com at all?

[barren elm]

The wiki has amazing little tables for all resources and how alt recipes affect their consumption

[hearty dune]

just found satisfactory-calculator

[vapid gorge]

try tools. It's a lot more user friendly

calc page is great for map , tools for production

[vapid gorge]

https://www.satisfactorytools.com/production?share=SZu1CnS8s8wTqeaLjhha for example

[hearty dune]

thanks!

[median heath]

Tools is far superior.

[vapid gorge]

You can click on and off basic and alt recipes and very clearly see changes

[slender wind]

ive kept the same tools tab open for my world it has different tabs within that you can use to keep track of all of your production

[vapid gorge]

I'd probably save the links somewhere just in case the page flips it's lid and you lose the info

[left zenith]

@oak cobalt regarding your question in #screenshots , residual fuel is much better as once you get the diluted fuel recipe, you can make significantly more fuel from heavy oil and water

[oak cobalt]

awesome, thank you!

[river dragon]

skip both and make conveyor belts under the ground. // i have unorganized conveyor belts.

[placid lichen]

I have some doubts about using Satisfactory Tools. Don't they skip a major part of the game which is planning out a factory?

[hearty dune]

kind of. But in this case it saved me 2 hours of pen and papering to determine the best recipe for reinforced iron plate from the perspective of input materials

[placid lichen]

hmmm...

[hearty dune]

and while I appreciate doing that from time to time, I have precious little spare time as it is

[wind spade]

they only do the math for you. You still need to plan the factory yourself

but ofc noone is forcing you to use it 🙂

though what you can do is validate your calculations using tools. That way you still get to plan the factory and you just evade any issues that may come from making a mistake when doing math

[hearty dune]

ahh planning. So do I rebuild my coal power plant in some far off corner and make steel where it used to be, or do I fill the lobby of my other factory with foundries and attempt to keep expanding up past a random arch......

[placid lichen]

How do i exactly count water? Or at least estimate the amount.

[wind spade]

what for?

[placid lichen]

A factory. I don't want satisfactory tools to go crazy on the water requirements.

[wind spade]

well one extractor makes 120/min on base clock speed 🤷‍♂️

[spring sequoia]

The most sensible way is figuring out how many extractors you're willing to put down and multiply by 120

[placid lichen]

Oh like that, thanks.

[wind spade]

you can also disable recipes you don't want to use 🤷‍♂️

[placid lichen]

Yeah i know.

[little shard]

I have 20 coal generators how many water extractors do I need

?

[wind spade]

open coal gen and check how much water does it need 🙂

[little shard]

45m^3 /min

So times that by 20

[wind spade]

20?

[little shard]

Yes

[wind spade]

ah yeah

[little shard]

I have 20 coal generators

[wind spade]

that's how much water you need

now you can also check how much water does an extractor produce and calculate that 🙂

[little shard]

120

[wind spade]

(also 20 coal gens is a weird number, how much coal do you have?)

[little shard]

So 900/120

[wind spade]

indeed 🙂

[little shard]

300 a min

[wind spade]

ah ok

[little shard]

I have a pure node fully overclocked

With a mk1 miner

[wind spade]

then you're correct 🙂

[little shard]

I need 8

But 1 under clocked by half

[fierce prawn]

someone explain to me compacted coal as a coal substitute in alt crafting...

You put in 5 coal and 5 sulfur and get 5 compacted coal... arent you just wasting sulfur?

[median heath]

You're trading.

[fierce prawn]

?

[median heath]

Give me a context where you're using Compacted and I can explain better.

[fierce prawn]

compacted steel

[wind spade]

compacted coal is different item than coal

[median heath]

Coal Conversion:

Base Steel, 30 C = 30 Ingot
Compacted, 9 C = 30 Ingot
So you're trading 21 C for 3 Sulfur

Solid is 20 C = 30 Ingot
So you're trading 11 C for 3 Sulfur

Making sense?

[fierce prawn]

yeah ok

[magic island]

It's comparable to other recipes like the Alloy Ingots, where you add a second resource to stretch the primary resource further. Add sulfur to your coal, and now you can make more steel than before, and so forth. Assuming an arbitrary abundance of iron, 1 coal & 1 sulfur node can make 11% more steel ingots than 2 coal nodes.

The main difference is, whereas Alloy Ingots are identical to default ingots, Compacted Coal is a separate item that requires its own recipes. So it's only sometimes possible to switch over to it.

[ember fractal]

Not worth it mid-late game imo. Sulfur is needed elsewhere. And coal is very abundant, especially if you retire your coal power plants

[median heath]

Worth is subjective.

There is a good amount of sulfur on the map, unless you've got massive goals you're probably not using it all.

[ember fractal]

Probably not using all coal either

[median heath]

Exactly.

If you do max nuke and convert all bauxite to aluminium using Instant Scrap, you still have enough sulfur for several hundred batteries/min.

So you can definitely make use of Compacted Coal recipes without worry.

[barren elm]

Sulfur is probably less valuable than coal overall

Like it depends on your goals in-game, but in general you're gonna run out of every single resource and still have untapped sulfur if you went on long enough

Unless, of course, you throw some into a certain steel themed alt recipe...

[median heath]

Compacted Steel is a good recipe.

[glacial hemlock]

Consider in the late game where coal is used up faster than sulfur, this recipe is indeed useful.

[median heath]

Usage of coal is highly dependent on alt recipe selection.

[glacial hemlock]

True. This also require one to retire turbofuel power to free up the sulfur.

[median heath]

Wait what?

Why did one ever start turbofuel power?

[glacial hemlock]

You skip form coal to nuclear?

[median heath]

No.

I go from coal to fuel to nuclear.

[glacial hemlock]

Oh

[magic island]

you can make such a bonkers amount of fuel from oil/water alone that there's not much incentive to transport sulfur over and rework your plant for turbo

[glacial hemlock]

True consider most of the oil nodes are away from sulfur. The only place where oil, water and sulfur are close together is at the northern forest swamp.

[barren elm]

The logic behind why turbofuel is bad, is simply that uranium has no other purpose while oil is used basically everywhere

I'm using "bad" here really subjectively, like it's your save do what you want

But a fully built nuclear plant that sinks all the plutonium, thus being waste free, produces about 20-30% more power than you could ever realistically use

[mint sedge]

Turbofuel (specially heavy turbo fuel) is simple to set up and requires no water, yet can produce a decent amount of power.
My opinion is that it's the ideal (temporary) step between coal and nuclear. You can keep it as a backup power source in case of blackout

[glacial hemlock]

The max power you will ever need is about 540GW. And yes you are true about Uranium alone is enough without burning plutonium

[barren elm]

That's false

You'll use a lot more if you overclock everything

Which, if you were using power in the hundreds of GW, isn't a terrible idea

Because otherwise your PC will start to melt

[mint sedge]

200 nuke plants is about 5 times my ambition

Hence, my goals/priorities will differ from those looking to 'max' a world

simplicity and production rates can take priority over resource utilization

[wind spade]

fuel is simpler to set up and requies no water, yet can produce a decent amount of power and is available earlier and doesn't require sulfur and coal

[mint sedge]

To put it in perspective:
1 GW from fuel (oil-HOR-fuel) needs 90 crude and 5 refineries.
1 GW from heavy turbo fuel needs <30 crude +coal&sulfur and 2 refineries

[wind spade]

10 GW from fuel

10 GW from turbo heavy

(in both cases it's 10 GW net, not just 10 GW)

[mint sedge]

you're using diluted fuel there

[wind spade]

that's fuel 🤷‍♂️

if you're doing fuel without diluted fuel recipe, you're losing out tons of power

[mint sedge]

we were talking simplicity. Also you said "requires no water" in your first response

AND that's blender fuel

[wind spade]

well most of the times you want to do diluted fuel anyway. Both when you do fuel and turbofuel

[mint sedge]

Heavy turbo fuel is an option

[wind spade]

or use turbo blend fuel

heavy turbo is just very inefficient compared to other alternatives

resource inefficient

[mint sedge]

My point was fuel power as a step from coal to nuclear is (i.er. temporary) can be done in a simple manner with heavy turbo fuel.
If you've got blenders accessed you're likely setting up for nuclear already

[wind spade]

you can do diluted fuel without blenders for same gain 🤷‍♂️

[mint sedge]

but not simply. All the stuff around with water and packagers and loads of refinereis

[wind spade]

if you want simple setup, sure. But if you're talking about "power to get me to nuclear", then you want some of the "better" fuel productions, not a simple one

and I'd argue if you want a simple setup, then introducing coal and sulfur to it makes it not simple

[mint sedge]

Fair point. And by simple I'm really saying "fewer refineries and pipework"
Using the 10GW example, with heavy turbo fuel it's 20 refineries that simply feed one into another. You need the compacted coal, which is a dozen assemblers and a maybe a train/belt to bring it to the refineries.
Diluted fuel is 25 refineries and 30 packages, plus getting the water there (3 mk1 pipes).

And EITHER way it's still 70+ generators, which is no small task

[wind spade]

generators will be the same, since they produce a fixed amount of power no matter what fuel you put into them

and I did 10 GW over 1 GW just to show more realistic values for midgame power

but yeah, turbo heavy is one of the recipes that save you building count at the expense of extra resource cost

[mint sedge]

I certainly get people rushing blenders and mk2 pipes to simplify fuel power

[glacial hemlock]

Which work 'best' when it is just a stepping stone and meant to be get rid of as soon as a small scale nuclear is started up.

Blenders require certain expensive items that can be hard to automate at first.

[wind spade]

I'd argue that using less resources (and less types) makes more effect than building slightly less buildings

You don't really need blenders for diluted fuel

[hoary rose]

so i kinda need help, if i have a line whit 100 steel ingot how do i spilt it up so that i can make a equal amount of beams and pipes??

[glacial hemlock]

Steel beam take 4, pipes take 1.5 means you need to split 11 into 8 and 3... oh prime number split... never mind.

[oblique hollow]

just use overflow method

[glacial hemlock]

If you have 3 foundries, 1 of them just feed into steel beam, combine the rest of two and split onto steel beam and steel pipe, how about that?

[glacial hemlock]

100 steel ingot is heavily undersupplied and i doubt he can produce anything reliably

[oblique hollow]

what does that have to do with overflow

place constructors so you have equal number of beams and pipes as output (if needed through clocking them down)

[hoary rose]

oh no i got 4500, i just need too know how to spilt it, so if i know how to do it whit 100 i can do it whit 4500

[glacial hemlock]

Sounds legit

[glacial hemlock]

4500 is probably around 9.4 belts at your current tech. 7 belts go to beam and 2.4 belts go to pipes. That should do well.

[oblique hollow]

7 what belts. mk 3?

mk2?

[hoary rose]

mk 5

[glacial hemlock]

Lol.

[oblique hollow]

mk 23

[glacial hemlock]

If you got mk5, why need so much beams?

[hoary rose]

i am setting it all up whit the idaer that all belts all be mk 5 whit 750 on all for them that can have it

[glacial hemlock]

Well, there are online calculators out there to help you. Basically you just need to split 11 into 8 and 3.

[hoary rose]

ok ty for the help ;D

[warm basalt]

what kind of planning tool is this? This looks like the diagrams on the wiki.

[vapid gorge]

Satisfactorytools.com , it's better than calc if that's what you're using

[cinder silo]

This ^^

[near zenith]

what is this new "power as output item" that's showing up, secret tools dev build spoilers?