🔱┃sentinel

[austere frost]

I mean if it takes 2 min it aint s tier anymore

Flay is another s tier

On both

Its the community and maxroll does a good job at that for the record rive is. A lot stronger than what they think but aint s category we will see next patch

[wooden monolith]

Maxroll tiers s bossing list suck ^^

There is only 2 builds

Warpath and

Es

[austere frost]

You should check it out again

[wooden monolith]

For santinel i mean

[austere frost]

You need to be realistic you were saying that multistike was s tier it isn't

[wooden monolith]

Rive is stronger than es

[austere frost]

Like I f I have insane mapping and I can kill uber in idk 60 seconds I am s tier ,

[austere frost]

Do you take the less damage node

[wooden monolith]

What node ?

[austere frost]

Erasing has way better clear though if bossing diff aint much

[austere frost]

Es the no cooldown node

[wooden monolith]

That s what i say, we don t have the same vision

[austere frost]

Have you tried flay abo builds or bear or frogs

[wooden monolith]

Tzlking about the mana version from maxroll so yes

[austere frost]

You can skip that node and have a better es build

[wooden monolith]

Yeah i know

[austere frost]

Its not vision its play,

[wooden monolith]

Maxxroll has 3 tiers s list

I have 2

You have 1

[austere frost]

I dont agree with maxroll but their tier list are mostly good not on every skill but if you try s tier builds sorry there is a difference

[austere frost]

Nope I have the 3 bear is amazing bossing but clear is crap ,since bossing is that good pushing corr its fine its won't be better than abomination though so it cant be ranked higher

[trim badge]

so when i look at a build if i can basically clear 2000 corruption without dieing at 130% MS, why do i need max crit bonus reduction max resists etc etc? This is understanding the game and as you scale higher in corruption defensives become less important as damage is needed to one shot everything.

[wooden monolith]

Some builds are good at bossing, but sucks at mapping, so a build can be tiers s and not tirrd s at the same time

[austere frost]

You play warpath with huge aoe try other melee character you will see why max resistance is needed

[trim badge]

at 5000 corruption any little AOE kills me lol it's a fun test for me.

[austere frost]

Yes but you will see the difference with your huge aeo clearing mobs so they never touch you

[trim badge]

yeah, there is probly a difference.

[wooden monolith]

I dont know for other class ( i play only sentinel), their tiers s sentinel list sucks. It only has warpath and ES manz version

[austere frost]

Yeah well I do so I can for sure tell if a skill is truly s tier or not cant really tell you my opinion about this without trying the others

[wooden monolith]

The best bossing santinel build is none of thoses 2

[austere frost]

Which is the skill of Sentinel that scales the best into the endgame

[wooden monolith]

Where is time rot

[austere frost]

Depends which one you pick es (scales harder)or the shield throw are both s tier

[wooden monolith]

Es mana is not stronger than rive, so rive should be in their list, too, and multistrike

I am talking about the tiers s maxroll sentinel bossing list

It sucks

[austere frost]

No we talk in general why I care about Sentinel only

Es mana take no cooldown node you can skip that and basically have way way too good of clear while capping crit without any crit on gear

[wooden monolith]

Because in their tiers s bossing list their only 2 sentinel build

Warpath and es mana

[trim badge]

it's sounds like their S tier is easiest for players to build and follow.

[austere frost]

Warpath is faster than rive if you want to go extra mile,thing is you can put rive and warpath on same bucket its not my man you can disagree and thats ok there is a big difference

[trim badge]

not min/maxing nodes to max results because you understand every node and their interaction.

[austere frost]

Anyway I am done busy with uber I recommend you to try s tier build bossing outside of Sentinel pretty cool some of them

[trim badge]

im farming 3LP worlds splitter now 😛

[austere frost]

Ain't we all😅

[wooden monolith]

What i say is their list sucks

[trim badge]

if you look at their skills, like i said for warpath it says to get rending maw... on devouring orb. this leaves high mana cost to devouring orb then you stutter betweer warpaths after it ends.

i did google and search up a lot of warpath builds , they all did this.

[wooden monolith]

You recommand to not get it ? Cause i do the same as maxroll lol

[trim badge]

i reccomend doing this solves all that stuttering and makes your warpath last longer

[wooden monolith]

I have no problem playing like maxroll but i ll test your version

Ok thx you

[trim badge]

essentially 2 things occur after warpath and low mana,
1)you dont have enough void wells
2) the devouring orb costs so much mana it stops your warpath.

this lowers mana cost and keeps you full of void essences

you may get a quick stutter like 1 second tops, but you wont get those repeated warpath stops and out of mana because no void essences.

[wooden monolith]

It happens sometimes yes

[trim badge]

i legit died on uber abb and echos because my warpath wouldnt start back up

[wooden monolith]

It happens sometimes but it s rare

But thx you, i ll test your build

[trim badge]

it occurs more often when you have 2300 mana and the channel puts you into heavy negative or running 5/5 warriors fury.

[wooden monolith]

Ok

[trim badge]

these should be on character forgot to swap them

that is for echo clearing.

[wooden monolith]

Ok, i do the same

My ms is 170 +

[trim badge]

i can push higher MS, but tanks damage and survivability.

if you want to run 1200 corruption run a 4LP kestral

if you want to run 2000+ corruption you need the titan

[wooden monolith]

I l keep my titan heart

Do you use apathy for more ms ?

[trim badge]

I lose too much damage I tried.

[wooden monolith]

Not at 2k coor i guess

[trim badge]

the thing is the survability comes from huge AOE and instant killing everything

[wooden monolith]

I use apathy and play at 1k3 corruption for more ms

[trim badge]

ill be at 210% MS then with apathy and darkstrides but I Dont like the dmg difference.

[wooden monolith]

Yep, the dps sucks, but i don t mind playing low corr

[trim badge]

yeah if you do 1000 corruption throw on your apathy +kestral + MS idols youll be at 226% MS or something

[wooden monolith]

Ok, i think it s the best thing to do for troves

[trim badge]

was pondering even the pale ox instead of titan for the 10%MS and strenght

it's a halfway point between titan/kestral

[wooden monolith]

Because high corruption is useless

[trim badge]

I do it for the challenge, im currently at 5400. but I do agree

[wooden monolith]

Lol 5400

[trim badge]

it's brutal thought I have to avoid some champions like the orca LOL

[wooden monolith]

Good night, it s 3am in france, need to sleep lol

[trim badge]

good night

[winter copper]

Why not use ward affix on boots of you are staruggling with tankjness

[trim badge]

at 5000 corruption😁 doesnt help much, and I lose too much dmg and move speed

[winter copper]

you lose only 15 ms, but will lose big long ramping if you do that since youll need to go 5/5 in warriors fury

dont see why you will lose dmg tho

[trim badge]

more melee damage and attack speed

[winter copper]

u use same boots

just replace experimental affix

with experimental ward on traversal

[trim badge]

maybe I really dont like losing MS thought, the stuff hits stupid hard at 5000,

[winter copper]

its only 15 if you use shattering worlds

if u dont then yee

[trim badge]

only on use, not used over and over i dont think

[winter copper]

ye with these boots you need to use traversal every 5-6 sec, so you max out warriors fury to dump all mana and refund from void essences in 5 seconds

instead of usually spinning 40 seconds

tho with 2k+ mana even with maxxed fury itll take more to dump all mana so will have less ward

[trim badge]

super interesting idea, I get 18 seconds+ even at 5/5 and the big AOE is my survivability also.

I really dont want to stop restart every 6 seconds

[winter copper]

yee with 18+ u wont get much, that setup is mostly used on Erasing

but thought maybe wp can also abuse

on erasing its op

[trim badge]

I enjoyed the idea, but with warpath I dont see a fit, I looked at a lot of options.

only solution was more mana/more damage to not get hit

[winter copper]

u can become BRUTAL

next season

xdddd

and stack rampancy/brutality go full zhp

max movement speed/dmg

and be 1 hp pepega with beeeg circle

but isnt WP pretty low dps for 5k orobyss? how long do fights usually take with it

[trim badge]

but the important part at 1200c, i have no problems suriviving can even so 2600 no issues it's only at 5000+ haha

[trim badge]

did up to 3k on regular orby then went to confluence for corruption

[winter copper]

are they difference in confluence?

🤔

[trim badge]

yes, much easire

[winter copper]

wtf hax

i tried 10k majasa

it wasnt easy at all

😑

[trim badge]

sorta like echo strengh orby, still tough dont get me wrong

[winter copper]

do they not scale with corruption or whats going on lmfao

[trim badge]

oh they do

just different

[winter copper]

hmmm

ic

usual ehg bs

🥱

hahaha

[trim badge]

i know i get a lot of slack for not maxing reduced crit bonus etc.... not max res but i tested a lot and just found it was useless vs damage

and i picked the biggest impact defense nodes

[winter copper]

le doesnt need defenses

untill they fix infinite scaling

its useless eventually youll be a oneshot

pretty much why abom/ballista and acid flask better than anything else in the game

[trim badge]

yep LOL i just want to survive 1200 easy and up to 2500? that is all

and tbh some defensive nodes give vitality which give damage which works great

[winter copper]

ye past 2k is where 99% of builds fall off

[trim badge]

I am glad you understand, others dont

[winter copper]

warpath and erasing are only sentinels hope

but erasing needs more aoe

or t7 aoe affix 2/3lp gear

[wooden mountain]

Smite can offscreen stuff in monos

[winter copper]

its mega low dps

ull probably still kill normals fast but 2-3 champions will swarm you and gg

[trim badge]

it does I swapped from ES i didnt like it

[winter copper]

you played splitter i assume?

[trim badge]

yep

was horrible

[wooden mountain]

I though VK smite was pretty good, what do you mean by mega low?

[winter copper]

its ok but nothing in comparison to es/wp and even less in comparison to actual meta like abom/bear/ballista/flask

those builds decimate training dummies in seconds

smite? maybe 35-50 seconds if u lucky

[trim badge]

right but It's a great overall build

[winter copper]

ye its just low dmg as 99% of sentinel builds

you can crit for what 400k on mobs? with smite and gg gear

es hits over 2.5mil

abom hits for 19 mil(40+ on dual strikes)

like its not even same realm

[trim badge]

my warpath gets 90 second Uber from enter to leave similar to my abom.. with no abom assembling it's amazing

[winter copper]

i havent actually tested full snapshotted double t7 abom

xdd

💀

[trim badge]

dmg isnt the issue by any means it was all the animations between phases lol

[winter copper]

numbers are just for base 1 t7 1lp version

[trim badge]

abom easier to build than my build thought, I needed a lot of ahrd slams

[winter copper]

ye its 40 sec kill with onephase builds

35 if u lucky

[trim badge]

from enter to leave? just being clear

yeah ill make a new abom char next season once my abom is nerfed haha

[winter copper]

Yeye

Just animations take that time

So anything faster cheeses through fasws

[trim badge]

yep, i tested a lot of variations when to stop start warpath etc tankiness

I found the middle ground so i dont die vs huge dmg

found this so need a good exalt to start using this

[winter copper]

ill try with t7 aoe on weapon/amulet and t5 gloves and 4/4 aoe node with axes, should be +150% inc aoe compared to normal versions

also frenzy belt might be a thing? for zhp version with vit conversion

[trim badge]

if you find a good ES build, Ill build one. I just dont like have the maxroll builds that promise all that and fail

[winter copper]

wdym?

what did they fail, maxrol version is solid does everything easy

[iron basin]

i was under the impression that the maxroll ES guide was pretty good

[trim badge]

yeah, I just end up finding ways to make them stronger, I use them a base now. just my preference tbh is end game in games like LE its echos per minute.

[iron basin]

my buddy played it and he's a moron but still cleared everything

[trim badge]

yeah, I just find ES is slow to clear unless there is a special tech where the movement skill kills everything

[iron basin]

i mean yeah it's gonna be slower than warpath

you have to stop to attack

[trim badge]

yep.

[winter copper]

well i would call fail what you described, build isnt advertised as king of speed last time i checked 🤔

[iron basin]

if I was gonna go for speed clearing echoes I'd play warpath. maybe autobomber orbs if they're still able to scale into the 1k territory

but I also don't hate myself so I won't play warpath

[trim badge]

different builds for sure. the stop attack gets annoying for me.

[iron basin]

i like the ungabunga

I can't stand doing nothing but spin

like I can see the appeal, but I don't enjoy it

[trim badge]

i enjoy stop attack for uber and hard fights but for clearing echos gets old fast

[mossy badge]

misha could you link your char profile? So i can check ur es out!

[winter copper]

my profile doesnt exist lmfao i dont play online

ONLY offline gamers

[mossy badge]

Aha damn, rip my stalking abilties

[trim badge]

why offline? i play online to force me to find stuff properly

[winter copper]

how many builds to you play per season?

[mossy badge]

he sticks to 2 for hte most part, 3 is a big stretch :d

He loves minmaxing so his warpath is cracked

[winter copper]

i play 20+

[mossy badge]

well that makes more sence, well if u get ES popping u better share it!

[winter copper]

and have to make guides/help maxroll guys

but the main reason is that LE has big progression/itemization issue. Its just not fun /badly designed. I had way more fun actually grinding poe2

in LE no thank you

for example idk if many people even thought about it, but do any of you even choose/think about t6 exalteds? they literally dont exist you finish campaign and in couple hours you are full t7+ whatever affixes

or has anyone noticed a big difference between 500 and 1k cor? by the time you get and blasting 500 your charcter can crush 1k unless real bad build

[mossy badge]

nope t6 is very much irrelevant, vuthia for example just minmaxing one build so he ignores 2t7s now aswell

When u make builds for maxroll and what not, are focusing on specific classes? Or are u just sending what u enjoy/think might busted

[trim badge]

Interesting and when you make builds? do you make it for ease of players to make? or just min/max. when I make character I min/max to the extreme to the tiniest detail.

[winter copper]

i do all classes at this point

[trim badge]

so when i look at builds, I end up optimizing a tonne after the fact to fine tune.

[wooden monolith]

Vuthia. How do you get triple exalted ?

[trim badge]

well, team play, when i was gathering the collection. did a lot of nem and troves.

I have the entire 3t7 collection now.

[wooden monolith]

Ok

[winter copper]

i just send planners/videos, help optimizing i dont write any guides there thank god cause its a lot of work 💀

writing paragraphs of text instead of blasting or theorycrafting no ty

[trim badge]

ill make one suggestion whoever made the warpath guide.

like this for devouring orb.

otherwise you get nasty stalls

[winter copper]

keke thats what i use too

they want free void res shred

so wont change

[trim badge]

yeah but makes little difference i found and then and then I stall out for 6 seconds in warpath.

[winter copper]

but ye i agree on warpath i personally go max cdr on orb so i can max out fury

[trim badge]

yeah, it's just rough when you make the build then find out it's not optimized and then you have to theory craft to fix to make the build more viable.

expecially when you have to slam 3t7s etc

[winter copper]

also in general maxroll guides are made with average guy in theory, so its more cozy/easy. tryhards usually need tweaking for their purposes.

but the ideas of the builds are same just differences in itemization

[trim badge]

exactly, I have to disect and tweak heavily.

[winter copper]

ye i mean im doing same with many of them

next patch warlock will be insane

one of my favorite masteries

already stronk will be even stronger

[trim badge]

im excited for a new bosser, as abom will be nerfed. so I can build a new character. I only keep 2 characters 1 bosser/echoer then minmax them a tonne.

[winter copper]

abom nerfed?

kekw

so still SSS tier?

[trim badge]

who knows, we will see.

[winter copper]

it was made like 4-5 years ago nerfed several times and there wasnt one season when it wasnt broken

just saying

[trim badge]

but I want a corrupted 2LP world splitter or 3LP with void pen and then i prob will use my warpath for everything.

[winter copper]

so when ehg says "nerfing" you can basically ignore that

[trim badge]

we will see

[winter copper]

and they already buffed it with new amulet and corrupted stat affix you can get +30 stats which is stupid op on abom

and more cdr from idol templates/corruption

💀

[trim badge]

oh fun, I can min/max agian yesss

[south ledge]

Due to?

[winter copper]

mainly idols

and other minor buffs, also will be higher qol with couple changes

profein veil was already stupid strong just buggy and some of it was fixed/re-optimized

going 4x1 4 idols is a big difference on acolyte and sent

[south ledge]

Oh I see. Think I'll start with rogue at first, to try the new skills. Also I have only little time spent on rogue, specifically bladedancer

About d-orb. Became my favourite skills since the rework.

But I couldn't find much success with the cataclysm node

[winter copper]

ok erasing strike will be nuts

6 million crits incoming just gotta have to test aoe

[south ledge]

Jesus christ

[wooden monolith]

Can we corrupt every piece of gear ?

[trim badge]

I think so? not 100%

[trim badge]

if you can make an ES that actually has good AOE id be more interested but AOE sucks

[wooden monolith]

It s gonna be a pain for 3t7

[trim badge]

you play legacy? or offline?

[wooden monolith]

I am an offline player

[trim badge]

it is a pain to get full 3t7... 4t7 even worse.

[wooden mountain]

seems like a big cleaver solutions buff

[wooden monolith]

I am offline but get legit stuff i like to play the game

But i am solo/cof only, so...

[trim badge]

you want about 1000 corruption at least for consistent items, as base items from nemesis scales from corruption. if you can do higher around 2000 is best min/max corruption if you can do easy

[iron basin]

ok that makes brutality actually worth using now lol

giving up all the armor you get from STR for 20% more damage felt bad. now it actually seems reasonable

[wooden monolith]

I don t want to farm 3t7 so maybe i ll go online next season, for multi ?

[trim badge]

you are welcome to join us on legacy and group farm with us, we can gift everything with obsidians.

[iron basin]

that reminds me that I need to go through and delete some characters

I'm at the limit

[wooden monolith]

Cool, thx you 👍

[trim badge]

just let me know, even if you start now, your progress wont be lost and I can help get you levelled.

[wooden monolith]

I have a char online, but went offline to not get ld/lag

[alpine canopy]

Woah okay then

[silk wasp]

Why do they hate Smelter's Wrath

[winter copper]

they hate forge guard

facts

shield bash giga buffed tho

[peak zodiac]

holy true

[hybrid crown]

lets go new meta shield

[silk wasp]

Inc mana cost now an upside on anything that costs less than 11 mana

Wait 14 I can't math

[icy jay]

How? When?

[hybrid crown]

13.34, if you get to the decimal lmao

[hybrid crown]

has mana cost nodes and scales with str

[peak zodiac]

lpl is pretty brutal tho ngl

[hybrid crown]

it is indeed brutal, but for skills without methods of increasing cost might be worth if you want that dmg

[winter copper]

double dmg from brutality

[icy jay]

I see

I was not up to date with my LE knowledge, i've now read the brutality thingy

[alpine canopy]

Technically, it'll give extra brutality damage on any skill between 0 and 20 mana cost, exclusive

[trim badge]

brutality will eat all my leech on warpath 🙁

[waxen nymph]

Don't use Brutality on wp

It has a mana cost of 1

Channel cost =/= Mana cost

[trim badge]

concern isnt isnt the mana cost I have a lot of strenght, it is the losing leech

[waxen nymph]

But you won't be getting any benefit

[hybrid crown]

doesn't mana cost increase the channel cost tho lmao

what a terrible predicament for channel skills

[waxen nymph]

5% More Dmg for 100 Str/Brutality

Pretty bad investment imo

[hybrid crown]

if only warpath scaled with attunement

[trim badge]

yeah, zero benefit any of the corruptions really and what those do.

[waxen nymph]

Mana regen?

[trim badge]

nope, void well.

mana regen isnt scaled off total mana...

[waxen nymph]

Talking to zeckar sorry

[hybrid crown]

yeah

[waxen nymph]

Crown?

Isn't Crow better use of mana regen than mana regen?

[hybrid crown]

I doubt you'd run a primo over channel cost

[waxen nymph]

Ah right

[hybrid crown]

attunement would extend warriors fury building

and the downside is negligible on channel skills

[wooden mountain]

A content creator tried this with ignite WP paladin and it's not nearly as good as VK mana sustain ofc but it's pretty good

Think it was dr3ad maybe can't recall

[waxen nymph]

Correct

[scarlet thistle]

Brutality might be a nice replacement (or addition) for Event Horizon on my Shield Bash setup. Was already using Horns too.

[winter copper]

420% aoe :smokeweed:

[iron basin]

Bonk

[waxen nymph]

The benefit "caps" at 20 mana cost

[scarlet thistle]

With Horns it could be at 18 mana cost. I'd probably have to adjust the build to drop Foot of the Mountain and handle mana management some other way.

[waxen nymph]

I thought the mana cost was way higher

[scarlet thistle]

Shield Bash is 9, can get up to -9 from a node, but making it spammable adds 9 more.

[winter copper]

with 200 str doesnt matter

[scarlet thistle]

They made a typo in the text apparently, it actually caps at 20 mana, not 20% more.
#💬┃general message

[hybrid crown]

think she meant the mana management, but idk

[austere frost]

20 mana cost 100 strength aka brutality 100% more damage ,not having armor on Sentinel

Idk you would have to get increased in gear so no hp in gear

[winter copper]

ah wait ye you get way more

[winter copper]

you get tons on sentinel without any strength

like forge guard has all this useless armor

finally useful

[austere frost]

Forgeguard but as a vk where? YYou need increase armor cause flat is obtainable easier enough

[winter copper]

you dont need nothing on vk

you go zhp

and full aoe

[hybrid crown]

insane

#👨┃ask-the-devs-not-support-no-bugs message

[iron basin]

Furnace time baby

now I can do double my 0 damage

[compact mantle]

Been a minute since I played. Got bored after Ancient Skies. What’s the new top tier Paladin build atm?

[iron basin]

there's like; bleed throw, judgement, multistrike

[austere frost]

Shield throw lava burst pally lightning javelin

[winter copper]

javelin might be insane

i need to check

[mental flare]

my fastest abby kills were all with lightning javelin paladin which is sad since im all for melee

damage type penetration may be the strongestr multiplier for damage lol

[iron basin]

eh, depends on the skill and type

penetration doesn't mean a whole lot for AoD builds on acolyte

since you're already dumpstering their resistances

[austere frost]

Its pretty huge for crit builds overall if you have access to a lot of penetration likr acid flask does

[trim badge]

what are peoples thought on this for warpath armor? ( I like the movement speed, and this gives health and strenght)

[iron basin]

wouldn't Titan's Heart be better? you're leeching aren't you?

[trim badge]

i got anguish for leech, titan heart has no movement speed. It gives tankyness but i dont need tankyness anymore just speed and damage.

[iron basin]

it all you care about is speed and damage then yeah sure

[trim badge]

i have a 3LP armor like this titan, i pop it on for uber and other stuff but just regular echos dont need it.

[iron basin]

i don't like gear swapping so I'd just use whatever is my best general use stuff

[trim badge]

i dont mind gear swapping at all, just mid combat gear swapping i draw the line.

[clever hazel]

I have reconsidered my position on brutality, I think

might actually try to convert strength to brutality on my planned build

not entirely sure I understand how the leech penalty on brutality works, though

if it's just completely bricking leech then that idea is dead lol

[austere frost]

Thinking about it the leech at 100 brutality is 50% of whatever leech you have so if its 6% now its 3 % so its not that bad maybe

[halcyon yoke]

If you do double damage but only leech half of it, you're still leeching the same amount overall
So as long as you're fine with the armor loss, it's a net positive

[silk wasp]

Unless it's a -50% flat leech reduction. Then for the first time ever a t7 leech roll on weapon might be worth something.

[alpine canopy]

Would be second time tbf

[winter copper]

Its never worth just do more dmg

[elfin warren]

with the Season mechanic being a cricle you don't want to leave I may play selfcast Devouring Orb again

[winter copper]

Only erasing strike and warpath

2 screens aoe or u are a chud

Tho self cast dorb is good but kinda low deeps

[elfin warren]

Cleared everything with it in Season 2 (aside from Uber Abby)

Ultimately switched over to Erasing Strike tho but before that DO carried my ass

[waxen nymph]

DO TR?

[south ledge]

That's actually pretty fun, I played that as well for speed farm.

I used volatile with the 100% echo chance and "b-hopped" across the echos, while dragging all the orbs with me

[elfin warren]

Yeah with All Consuming for big orb

[waxen nymph]

Sadge

I thought someone had a Spell DoT DOrb

[alpine canopy]

In this economy??

For real though, they gotta bump up that dmg eff or it'll never go anywhere

[waxen nymph]

And if we could have more than 20% of the node do smth with the spell dot part

That would be great

[loud quest]

Brutality will be something nice for my VK build. 75 mana cost per es swing.

Bummer about that 20% cap :p

[formal thicket]

the 20% cap was fake news

20 mana cost cap is the only cap

[quiet hearth]

Aco got a fire aura before we did bros

[mental flare]

Set items looking good

[silk wasp]

The DW set looks neat.

[uneven gorge]

You can get up to a 97% chance to not consume potions (assuming the max rolls haven't changed)

[winter copper]

you have judgment

[quiet hearth]

I should have clarified I was talking about void cleave, Judgement is built in, I was referring to a conversion.

[winter copper]

ah fff

mage also gets it

fire aura should be pog now

[silk wasp]

Bleed FS with DW set... 🤔

Wait nvm that node only works with crit multi on the tree

False alarm, FG still trash

[scarlet thistle]

Is Bee Forge Guard too crazy? You'll have to skip the shield or use the primordial ring. But if you're already doing Forged Weapon stuff. Bees scale with Attunement too.

[tribal basin]

doubt that fire aura ever gets pog , even with a 100% buff to its base and damage effectiveness it seemed mid after i done the maths

[quiet hearth]

Honestly bees with paladin would be funny for flame burst

[scarlet thistle]

I thought about it, but Flame Burst would scale off of the minion that triggers it, so it might be annoying to scale.

[quiet hearth]

aura and symbols go a long way there honestly

stacking ignites with them might be the better option for damage, but I like building the silly ideas

[waxen nymph]

No ?

[scarlet thistle]

Flame Burst scales with the stats of the player OR minion that triggers it.

[quiet hearth]

it says it scales with the minion that triggers it right there

[waxen nymph]

Oo

[quiet hearth]

oops

[silk wasp]

Lol

[quiet hearth]

Ive been gone too long, normally Im the one that cant read

[gusty abyss]

The more important part is this:

No more multi if your bees trigger it

[quiet hearth]

Yeah, that does suck unfortunately

[waxen nymph]

But if they trigger hits 60 times a second

OO

[quiet hearth]

many many booms

[gusty abyss]

that is like 1 multi strike, which is you causing it, gaining the more multi

On the topic of memes, 3x this, + x3 from omen, 78% chance on hit, maybe even a little buff in the patch notes?

[hybrid crown]

stop trying to plan bees on Sentinel guys smh

it's for ME

on Necro

mwuahahaha

[quiet hearth]

No, I will not, I have a duty

[silk wasp]

It's in his name

Nominative determinism demands bee sentinel

[quiet hearth]

Now for my less meme, that Jormons set for WP VK could be fun

I am laughing at that 3 piece set bonus +10 crit multi? that has to be a misprint

[gusty abyss]

Actually, reliquary nest. Can get 100% divine bolt on attack with multi strike, enough hits to have flame burst each attack, can trigger 2 smites each attack and then also have divinie bolt from paladin tree. Maybe this is actually not a total meme

And ofc healing hands

[silk wasp]

Confirmed not a typo

[quiet hearth]

what a joke

[silk wasp]

I think it's only there to screw with the set completion ring

[quiet hearth]

just poor design, could have made that some QoL thing instead

That being said, being able to get 19% flat base crit with VK and the axe and sword with WP is gonna be wild

How easy would it be to hit that 200 bleeds would be the real question

[waxen nymph]

Should be really easy

[quiet hearth]

Should be, even just the axe and WP give you 130%

But that is 7% per 10 bleeds up to 200,so 140% crit muli, quick math with what I have means about 400 crit multi with just the tree and the bleeds on beefy targets

Oh yeah, the axe gives crit vuln too, so at least +2% flat, up to 20, almost 40% flat crit that is wild

[gusty abyss]

up to 10 stacks

[quiet hearth]

Yes, 2% per stack,would be 20

you'd barely need any crit to hit cap at that point

[gusty abyss]

crit vuln is added crit right? Doesnt scale with increased I thought

[quiet hearth]

Now that I'm not sure, but even then is still flat 20% if you can apply it often enough

[gusty abyss]

its gonna be interesting for acolyte, both sword and axe can have spell damage, and the 20% more also works for spells

[quiet hearth]

Im still salty aco doesnt have a fire melee to proc ruby fang

[gusty abyss]

Or sentinal cold to proc caspars

xD

[quiet hearth]

Herot representation when

[gusty abyss]

but even just belt + ring gets you the 20% more

Somehow I think they messed up the set bonuses

2p is way strong, 3p might as well not exist

Also missed oportunity to have multiple weapns in the set, so you can chose what fits you best

[silk wasp]

Crit vuln doesn't scale with inc

Just added at the end

[quiet hearth]

Wonder if we will get changes to maces, they need so much work still

[silk wasp]

They're adding more stun chance. That'll fix it

[zenith hinge]

Would love more maces in the game - not counting the bee thing lol

[urban phoenix]

Shame Kuzon's fury is melee hit only, would have been neat for shield throw.

[winter copper]

https://youtu.be/1ww75Cm3P2M this is with all possible AOE nodes/affixes @trim badge should be zhp viable just need double t7 gear for more mana/damage and brutality corrupt next patch

[waxen nymph]

Ah right, "" melee""

[austere frost]

You got a planner?

[waxen nymph]

😅

[winter copper]

its not finished, but its gg gear double t7 weapon,t8 primordial ES on chest sentinel base and mana/aoe everywhere. not a budget or starter build

was mainly just testing aoe with full investment

[granite forge]

buff forge guard

[trim badge]

that does sound fun!

[waxen nymph]

Forge Strike base dmg is now 3

[mossy badge]

Damn misha already cooking 🧑‍🍳

Wonder if they will nerf void well, hope they don’t crush it

[winter copper]

all forge guard melee builds got at least 2-2.5x dmg with brutality since u dont need armor

sounds pretty decent, maybe we dont have to fight uber for 30 min on smelter wrath now

[maiden palm]

How?

[winter copper]

str to brutality

smelter, forge strike,shield bash all buffed

[maiden palm]

How does that equate to 2-2.5 times damage though? That's what I'm asking.

[winter copper]

stack 100-200 str, they all are over 20 mana cost

100str+20 mana cost=100% more dmg

you stack str anyways on all those builds with 2h pasive and nodes

[maiden palm]

I thought it was capped at 20% more damage....

[winter copper]

they clarifued

and also updated the post

ist capped at 20 mana cost

[maiden palm]

Oh....great news then

[winter copper]

as for str u can stack as much as u want

its 1% more dmg per 1 str

[maiden palm]

I wonder if it was a slip up or they actually made it so bad to start with.

[winter copper]

with ehg never know

[maiden palm]

Indeed. Hard to plan a build with info like that lol

[winter copper]

yeaa

ib4 its all bugged on release and all theorycrafting down the drain

🤨

[maiden palm]

Thanks for clarifying anyway. I must have missed that one.

[maiden palm]

This

[winter copper]

wouldnt be the first time

xdd

[maiden palm]

Well. I might be keen for FG then

Hopefully there might be some tweaks in the patch notes as well. FG needs some help

[wooden monolith]

did they show all new items yet ?

[maiden palm]

Hard to know

I doubt it

[ruby hollow]

Wait brutality isnt capped at 1.2x now?

[waxen nymph]

No, it's not

[ruby hollow]

Damn thats busted

[silk wasp]

Today's the day

[wooden monolith]

the day of what ?

[silk wasp]

Finding out if FG is cooked for another season

[alpine canopy]

They'll change his name to Oven Guard

[wooden monolith]

it needs a rework, it will still sucks

no haste = it sucks no matter what ^^

[gusty abyss]

frenzy effect working for sword catcher and the frenzy belt, and the increased damage taken being reduced on that belt, I think FG has some good potential with that and using a shield

[wooden monolith]

won t play fg until they remove the haste loss

[gusty abyss]

yeah, I cant see myself starting a FG because of it. Need something fast to get account wide power up

[wooden monolith]

i started with shield bash fg then played warpath, can t go back to turtle ms anymore

[wooden mountain]

big buffs in 1.5 = Pizza Oven Guard

[silk wasp]

New pizza shield

End of tree talents pick between Chicago, Detroit, New York, and New Haven style

[granite forge]

i just want buffs to warpath forged weapon build

[icy jay]

Why?

[loud quest]

The anticipation. I need to know if es vk is getting fukt with WP.....

[urban phoenix]

Hmm, i wonder if we can make a dual wield Kuzon's Vengeance build work.

Assuming you would get the % chance to throw fire daggers on the set shard.

Could probably craft some decent Katanas with it, and go crit.

Oooh, patch notes!

[quiet hearth]

ABmain skill time

[urban phoenix]

decent chunk of fire dmg

[quiet hearth]

amazing that change to smelters, they are so close to the real problem

[urban phoenix]

Which is?

[uneven gorge]

Revolutionary

[quiet hearth]

That it needs mobility to feel good. It has silly numbers but feels terrible to play, and slowly turning wont fix that. Just let us move while charging.

[urban phoenix]

Fair.

[silk wasp]

They baited me so hard man

At least Primo Sunforged Hammer got unchained

[urban phoenix]

Yeah Sunforged got some big buffs.

[quiet hearth]

I was expected more changes tbh

and of course, the biggest change needed was not done, stop nesting these links in the forum post. Just use plain text and hyperlinks.

[ruby hollow]

brutality nerfed pretty hard

[uneven gorge]

Already nerfing paladin and FG

[silk wasp]

I played t8 Sunforged Hammer last season briefly. It was not great. Survivability was good since everything was stunlocked but damage was butt ass

Lmao I missed that. VK supremacy continues

[urban phoenix]

Ahh thats lame

[urban phoenix]

What skill did you use?

[silk wasp]

Forge Strike

And Rive to maintain mana

[urban phoenix]

I was contemplating an ignite warpath build with Sunforged, I can't remember what conclusions I came to.

Will have to take another look at it.

[modest palm]

anyone able to judge the new change to warpath:

Warrior’s Fury’s effects now reach a maximum after 10 seconds. After that duration the effects will still apply, but will not continue growing.

is it a buff or a nerf , i need jonathan from GGG to tell me

[quiet hearth]

I mean, I dont think you can sustain the drain after 10s so what's it matter?

[silk wasp]

If you could maintain WF for longer than 10s (void well), it's a nerf

[quiet hearth]

I forgor about void well

The more I read these patch notes, the less impressed I am

Dont get me wrong, some good changes in here, but there are some things that are just like...well ok

[silk wasp]

There's more nerfs than I expected. People are gonna be mad about the imprint changes

[quiet hearth]

nerfed swordcatcher

[urban phoenix]

Just not a lot for... how many months since the last season?

[gusty abyss]

10s with 1 point is +40 mana per second, add in reduced channel cost, I think it sustains without voidwell

[urban phoenix]

Figured there would be a lot more stuff added.

[quiet hearth]

lmao they nerfed Thornshell

[silk wasp]

Thornshell, Thicket, and Briar idols all got hit

Shield Throw caught by strays

[uneven gorge]

eyy, they got that

[quiet hearth]

Volcanus buff looks nice

Could see a divine bolt paladin WP spell build with that honestly. I did it last season and it worked well enough

[gusty abyss]

imprinting nerfed, i guess easy double exalts are gone xD

[silk wasp]

Printing red rings gone too

[quiet hearth]

https://giphy.com/gifs/OkzCcGn5fY29e7bvpS

[silk wasp]

Ruby Fang Stonks 📈

Cadence crit buff kinda shocking to me

That's a filthy amount of crit

[quiet hearth]

Now if only Rive had a fire conversion, I could go FG and use the shield and get all the mileage out of it, or a fire melee for Aco

[iron basin]

    0.02% more damage for melee attacks per 1 Mana cost (up to max 20, multiplicative with other modifiers) per point.with other modifiers) per point.
        Dev Note: “In the second day of the Hype Week, we showcased the new corrupted attribute Brutality granting 0.05% more damage for melee attacks per mana cost (up to 20). We have since lowered the value to 0.02% due to it being too powerful while having a downside that is relatively easy to play around. Previously at 100 Brutality, a 20 mana cost attack would’ve gained 100% more damage, with the lowered value it will not instead gain 40% more damage.”

oof

[silk wasp]

Lmao

[quiet hearth]

it was barely comparable before the nerf, now it's just 100% not worth it

[silk wasp]

Nerfed between Tuesday and Friday

[gusty abyss]

it was way to good lol

I hope they tapped the vit frenzy effect as well?>

[quiet hearth]

Wait no, I was thinking of the frenzy one my bad

The frenzy one was not in need of a nerf

[waxen nymph]

FG Buffs !!!!

Insane

[quiet hearth]

Dont get too excited Vlad, they also still nerfed FG so it evens out

[waxen nymph]

Did they ?

[silk wasp]

You can rotate while Smelting vlad. Furnace 📈📈📈

[waxen nymph]

Holy

[quiet hearth]

...wait wait..why are the stats on the reforge for the RF set better than the base?

We dont know how fast you can rotate, they said slowly rotate

[waxen nymph]

RF Set ?

[quiet hearth]

Ruby Fang

[iron basin]

that's my solo character this season then

[waxen nymph]

Take the ring node anyway ^^

[silk wasp]

I think I'm a Primalist player now

[quiet hearth]

wild that overall you're gonna be better off using reforged fang set instead of at least one of the items. an extra 300% poison chance is nothing to sneeze at

Yeah primalist eating good

well ok then

[gusty abyss]

Yes! this is so good for smite on throwing

[uneven gorge]

yeah, I'm just gonna ignore the bottom half of this

new best amulet 😀

[quiet hearth]

Im amazed ravagers heart didnt get buffed

[silk wasp]

What's the lpl on exulis? 115?

[waxen nymph]

POG

[iron basin]

wasn't this the one that they showed as corrupted with two changed stats?

[uneven gorge]

I don't think that's right...

[iron basin]

makes me think it always drops double corrupted

[silk wasp]

🤔

[gusty abyss]

Sadge

[clever hazel]

No fixes to Quicksand + Cycle of Decay in Anomaly, or Blade Paladin in Vengeance..? Okay then.

[silk wasp]

Why even have new layouts

[quiet hearth]

why not? more options are always good

[silk wasp]

They give you a layout to fit 4 adorned idols then say nuh uh

[quiet hearth]

Listen they do weird things, we just have to accept that and move on

STILL no fire conversion for ravaging aura rage, RAGE I tell you

[uneven gorge]

well ok then...

[gusty abyss]

A lot of layouts also restrict weaver idols, no easy buffs for VK caster there either

[quiet hearth]

You could cut VK in half and it would still be one of the most powerful masteries, they are fine xD

[iron basin]

restrictions breed creativity. it's a heavy handed solution, but still a good one imo

[quiet hearth]

So, how hard is it gonna be to sustain warslash do we think?

[uneven gorge]

902 flat damage for rive

[quiet hearth]

also dont the divine bolts scale with the bonuses in the HH tree?

[silk wasp]

Yes

[quiet hearth]

I forget how they scale it's been so long since Ive looked at anything

[uneven gorge]

You can now get 13 mana per attunement

[waxen nymph]

AHAH !!!

[quiet hearth]

FG block stonks

[silk wasp]

What're some efficient sources of inc Haste effect

[quiet hearth]

idols have some up to 10% on adorned

new corrupt has up to 50%

[silk wasp]

Weaver blessing?

[quiet hearth]

havent looked at that, just looking at items

[silk wasp]

I don't remember an adorned affix that does inc Haste effect unless it's new

[quiet hearth]

the best would be the experimental affix which goes up to 100%

good luck getting a t8 of that though

[silk wasp]

Not wasting a t8 on 10% block tbh

[quiet hearth]

only on boots

but I agree there

[silk wasp]

So with a perfect crit roll cadence and 2 PGs, FWs have 43 flat crit before Inc? Goddamn

Can I finally ditch Symbols?

[quiet hearth]

lol no

[silk wasp]

Pls EHG

[torn ice]

which of the two : erasing void knight or warpath void knight will be the strongest in this patch?

[silk wasp]

Lemme look into my crystal ball rq

[quiet hearth]

raw numbers warpath VK is gonna be silly, but ES will always be comfy af

[waxen nymph]

Warpath got a big nerf

With the cap on warrior fury

[silk wasp]

And ES gets Brutality and maybe that other affix that scales damage on mana cost

[quiet hearth]

Honestly Im most stoked about the abyssal buffs

[loud quest]

Reporting in

[silk wasp]

Abyssal Echoes build real?

[waxen nymph]

Looks like it

[loud quest]

ES gonna be new sentinel meta. For me, brutality huge and Truesight glass more attainable. Bonks bigger.

[quiet hearth]

I fully plan on doing a max frenzy multi dot stacker with the fang changes, I might actually get respectable numbers now xD

[loud quest]

Was already using it. It's a lovely skill. Frankydelobo - Baalzevuv - Character Profiles - Last Epoch Tools https://share.google/FDE7BTrsg6M9TZ1h8

[quiet hearth]

You could 100% make it work, but now it will actually scale pretty well.

[iron basin]

Updated the visual effects for Forge Strike. GAME CHANGING

[quiet hearth]

I could really see a Paladin using the fire convert nodes with AE now too, decent damage a TON of healing

[iron basin]

i was playing around with it a couple weeks ago

it's honestly pretty fun but now it might be good

[uneven gorge]

A good alternative to Shattered Chains is the Jormun's set on an exalt. The belt isn't as good, but the more damage also works for ailments, so ig it's sort of a buff

[quiet hearth]

I wonder how good the targeting is on those shards for Volcanus now, because that thing could already hit decently hard.Is there any smite on generic hit?

[loud quest]

Eyyy, what site is that? Maxroll? They already have builders updated?

[quiet hearth]

yep builder is updated

[iron basin]

only thing I can think of is palarus which defeats your purpose

[scarlet thistle]

LEtools is also updated

[uneven gorge]

nah, letools

[iron basin]

Harmony of the First now has an effective level for legendary potential of 40 (from 60) sick my silly FG build got a little better

[quiet hearth]

Oh yeah, they updated hammer throw to not die to terrain, that's so good

[iron basin]

doom is void only now. that's a pretty massive change

[quiet hearth]

Also, silly fg build? lemme hear about that

[iron basin]

it's just builder spender with Forge Strike, but using harmony of the first for the spear base crit bonus and being able to scale your attack speed and flat melee through the roof easily

"easily" as in you only need the stats on your weapon. almost every item ends up having defensive stats and you're still getting offenses through just your weapon

crafting the actual gear is a PITA though since you want only 2 affixes, one of them T7, and then a couple of sealed sets

when I was gearing it out, every single piece of 2 affix gear ended up being like a 30% damage boost

[quiet hearth]

I did something like that with hammer throw and that axe that makes enemies explode with over kill damage, but you need a lot of extra levels on HT to get the damage up but it worked. A good crit would just vaporize packs

[iron basin]

yeah forge strike direct damage does that too. anything that survives the initial hit usually doesn't survive the explosive ground afterwards

what's the best way to generate forged weapons that doesn't require attunement stacking?

they buffed the flat damage from the set hammer by a ton

[quiet hearth]

I wish they would make throwing hammers scale with hammers

[urban phoenix]

If you ran two of these, would it be two different instances of daggers throws? 4 -> 8 per second? or just 2x Chance, with the 4 cap per second?

[quiet hearth]

I dont think the cap would change

[urban phoenix]

Thats unfortunate.

[quiet hearth]

I mean 4 times a second still aint bad.

Would be good for dots

[urban phoenix]

Thats the plan yeah.

[waxen nymph]

Careful its on use not on hit

Idk what you want to use it with

[urban phoenix]

Yeah, would run vengeance.

[waxen nymph]

But not Wp

[urban phoenix]

Just a bit of a shame you'd be stuck with 16/40 stacks on Sentinel.

[iron basin]

Adjustments to the audio for Smelter’s Wrath. yo this is actually pretty exciting. my biggest complaint with it thematically was how underwhelming it felt after this big windup

[silk wasp]

Might try shieldless FG. Just try to brute force everything and pray power creep is enough

[spring pollen]

I’m not an expert in corrupted affixes so not sure how to apply them, but there is one for two handed mail that gives % chance to summon forge weapon on melee hit. Could be useful.

Maul

Mace I mean

[urban phoenix]

Oh wow.

Decent % too.

[spring pollen]

Oh it’s for any two handed weapon

https://www.lastepochtools.com/db/prefixes/AJwdgTEA

This creates a lot of options. T1 is 30% chance on hit!

[urban phoenix]

Maybe we can make a shrapnel build with Warpath or something.

could be fun

[formal thicket]

Relic slot

[silk wasp]

Just realized the Carcinized Altar is shaped like a crab lol

[quiet hearth]

I wanted crab to be so much better than it was

[turbid dome]

😮

we can adjust the aim of smeltesr wrath now

[silk wasp]

Massive

[quiet hearth]

Dont celebrate, for all we know it takes one fiscal year to turn

But Engi, did you see? My boy, look what they did to my boy

[uneven gorge]

943 total attributes with Abandoned Eyes of the Weaver (+23.575% flat crit and +7.85 to all skills) as a FG. Strength version is 882 total attributes (+22.05% flat crit and +7.35 to all skills).

[quiet hearth]

+7 to all skills is wild

[urban phoenix]

Which skills actually benefit from having so many to skills?

feels like most things are barely getting use out of 20.

[quiet hearth]

WP loves extra points

[uneven gorge]

+80 attributes from this - It wasn't applying

[quiet hearth]

Hammer throw, symbols of hope,

[urban phoenix]

I guess more than i thought, shame on me for almost exclusively playing forged weapons.

XD

[uneven gorge]

1024 total attributes on perfect rolls

[quiet hearth]

I..am stat man

[uneven gorge]

That's 25% flat crit and +8 to all skills

[urban phoenix]

The forged weapon on hit corrupt actually enables shrapnel hard i think.

[quiet hearth]

shrapnel was already decent before, but that corrupt definitely gives it some oomph

[spring pollen]

Corrupt is a rune right so cannot be done on uniques or sets?

[urban phoenix]

Can like completely ignore forgemaster stance with warpath I imagine.

[quiet hearth]

sure but you're already right there if you are using a 2h because of Foe Cleaver, which still has dodged the nerf bat somehow

I could definitely see it on dw or 1h/shield though

[urban phoenix]

Ah yeah, true.

Is there a limit to scrap metal?

Assuming no?

[quiet hearth]

nope, as many as you can stack in 10s

[urban phoenix]

Pfff

[mint rock]

Hello, Im a refugee from mage

[urban phoenix]

wow.

[mint rock]

any good builds here

[silk wasp]

No

[quiet hearth]

No, only memes

[mint rock]

im just gonna play warpath

warpath never fails me

[urban phoenix]

Thats a lot of scrap metal.

[quiet hearth]

how much could you stack?

No WP can fail you, now Rive...Rive will never fail, it advances inexorably forward

[urban phoenix]

Presumably lots.

[quiet hearth]

what's the % chance with the affix?

[urban phoenix]

Yes.

Pretty much a forged weapon per hit with a t7

from rive

[wooden mountain]

foe cleaver won't double that

[quiet hearth]

Yeah, not an offensive stat sadly

[urban phoenix]

Thats sad.

Still.

kinda insane regardless.

[quiet hearth]

Can that be applied on 1h weapons?

[urban phoenix]

Nah, just two.

[quiet hearth]

oh well nvm my arguements then xD

But yeah that is still a lot of scrap metal, especially if you just take the node and DONT use rive and instead use something faster hitting like WP

[iron basin]

smelter's wrath

[urban phoenix]

Oh shit, yeah its global isn't it..

damn

Hopefully its not gonna be too hard to get the corrupt.

I think I want to play this.

[mint rock]

im gonna pretend like I understand any of this theorycrafting

[quiet hearth]

Actually...Vengeance might be better

because iron blade is technically a melee attack XD

[urban phoenix]

I do like Vengeance.

[quiet hearth]

So it's gonna be how many hits you can get out of WP vs Vengeance and it's dmg reduction

[mint rock]

so we spin with warpath and proc spinning hammers?

[quiet hearth]

No, you spin and proc forged weapons from the tree, which are then converted into more armor and dmg because of a specific node

[urban phoenix]

The more dmg is only for Rive unfortunately.

[quiet hearth]

Build up your scrap and then Rive the ever loving HP bar off of something

[urban phoenix]

That could work for sure.

[mint rock]

oh so the hammers are basically buffs

[iron basin]

i wanna use the forged weapon on hit affix for flat fire melee with the buffed sunforged hammer affix

[quiet hearth]

The forged weapons are minions specific to sentinel, and you essentially will eat them to gain buffs as they spawn

[urban phoenix]

I wonder if oversummoning FW counts as their timer expiring.

[quiet hearth]

That I do not know, I dont think so, I think it just refreshes

So what 2h base is gonna be best for this nonsense

[iron basin]

for rive?

[uneven gorge]

Multistrike can get a nutty amount of hits

[quiet hearth]

In general, here we would be WPing most of the time until we hit a tanky target and then be using Rive to burn it down with all the stacks we have built up

That is true, WP, Vengeance, or MS, which overall applies stacks best and has the better trees? I think for swords MS wins

[iron basin]

warpath
i've checked out

[urban phoenix]

Could technically use whatever you want to proc the FW.

[quiet hearth]

WP liked builds the stacks fastest, even has the built in gen

[iron basin]

each hit from multistrike is a different hit for ignite application and stuff yeah?

[quiet hearth]

It is

[grand pagoda]

None of the corrupt stats are for throwing. Sadface

[iron basin]

seems like it would generate a lot of FW

[uneven gorge]

yup, and can echo

[wooden mountain]

rive with healing hands proccing hits as often as WP iirc

[urban phoenix]

Vengeance with Iron blades still solidly on the table as well.

[quiet hearth]

I forgot about HH, in that case vengeance wins

[wooden mountain]

yeah but rive actually gets the damage from the buff

[urban phoenix]

Yeah, but you use something else to get the stacks, then wombo with Rive.

[uneven gorge]

MS can echo, proc HH, has a node to double its hits, and has FW gen in its tree

[wooden mountain]

you're opting in to builder/spender when Rive&HH does almost as good a job?

[quiet hearth]

We dont know that yet, which is why we are talking about it

[urban phoenix]

If it builds more stacks, then sure.

maybe

[wooden mountain]

rive is also taking advantage of the stacks while you're building

[urban phoenix]

For sure, it really depends on feel, whatever you use has to be clearing* trash well.

[quiet hearth]

Right but using other skills as a builder will give some utility as well, and some people dont like how Rive feels so exploring options opens it up for more people

[urban phoenix]

Warpath without having to go Forgemaster, and just focus on AOE might just end up being the comfier option.

[quiet hearth]

Forgemaster?

[urban phoenix]

Normally you would have to take this

[quiet hearth]

oh that right

[mint rock]

you guys keep doing the thing and then give me the guides xD

[urban phoenix]

frees up a lot of skill points

[quiet hearth]

Also going to be if you want to go FG and use a 2h and a shield

I can only imagine how insane the triple dot build would look

[urban phoenix]

The other option, is not doing scrap metal at all.

and going sunforged mace

because that would work with foe cleaver right?

[quiet hearth]

I mean, this was about the scrap metal, that's just a different build and I dont know about the mace

[urban phoenix]

Definitely a different build, but it would be an absurd amount of flat damage to 2x.

and a lot of ignite as well

[quiet hearth]

I dont know if it would scale the added

[urban phoenix]

I guess it could be... indirectly adding the damage?

that would be unfortunate.

[quiet hearth]

that's what Im thinking

Because if it did that would be stupid good

[urban phoenix]

900 ignite and 450 flat fire is kinda wild already.

[quiet hearth]

casually dropping 20 ignite stacks per swing xD

Do you count as moving during WP?

[mint rock]

yes

[turbid dome]

draven what added damage are you questioning with rive

like whats the source of the added

[quiet hearth]

From the Sunforged hammers bonus

[turbid dome]

that wouldn't

[quiet hearth]

Didnt think so

[urban phoenix]

Thats sad.

[turbid dome]

effects like that are added as a buff to your character

[quiet hearth]

time to max block WP FG

[turbid dome]

same with that primordial spear that increases its affixes based on magic gear you have equipped

but twohander + shield makes haste stinky

[quiet hearth]

Im converting haste into block, that's fine

But I will be scaling MS for that block effect

[turbid dome]

🤔

[turbid dome]

I don't think fg needs that much more block effectiveness tho

[quiet hearth]

Imma kylo ren that stuff

MORE

[turbid dome]

do this on void knight with darkstrides

[quiet hearth]

but then I gotta use a 1h

eww

[turbid dome]

[urban phoenix]

I'm just gonna stack ward... who needs a shield anyway.

[quiet hearth]

VK would be faster, meanwhile FG would be blocking god and not realizing what happened

[urban phoenix]

Warpath ward goes Brrr

Or is that forge strike only.

XD

[quiet hearth]

I might play spellblade with the "what is a mana pool" SS glacier proccing

[urban phoenix]

Sorry, its not 900 ignite, its 1350 with the new mod.

my mistake

Ok hmm.

So this removes the guaranteed ignite...

But does it remove the Ignite duration mod from this?

[quiet hearth]

yes, because you cant convert was isnt there

[urban phoenix]

It can still stun normally though

i assume

just not guaranteed

[quiet hearth]

correct

[urban phoenix]

there not being a guaranteed stun or ignite doesn't necessarily disable the stun duration mods -> Ignite duration.

I would think

[quiet hearth]

all it does is remove the guaranteed stun, all other chance to stun ect works

[urban phoenix]

I wonder how much stun duration we can stack.

get a big 1350 ignite with massive duration

[quiet hearth]

Just walk up and bonk someone with the worst friction burn known to man

[urban phoenix]

Don't even need a shield

[quiet hearth]

true

[urban phoenix]

Plus we can just spawn forged weapons with shield bash now.

Never used the skill, but i'm assuming we can get the AoE pretty big

[quiet hearth]

pretty decent yeah

[urban phoenix]

almost 5 second ignite with just the stun duration from shield bash tree as well.

[quiet hearth]

bonk someone and just runaway

[urban phoenix]

I feel like Sunforged has some interesting sleeper builds.

I'm gonna do my best to find them

[iron basin]

[turbid dome]

[iron basin]

i like that smelter's wrath reaches crit cap with damn near just the tree

[turbid dome]

yea

[iron basin]

it actually might be with just the tree

[quiet hearth]

Im pretyt sure you can get there with just the tree

The issue is you're still playing smelters

[iron basin]

yeah it's 70% crit chance at full charge ignoring any other factors

[quiet hearth]

So pretty much with any real gear you are 100% crit

[iron basin]

you get 60% inc crit on the tree leading to the crit multi and pen node

tree gets you to 100%

i wonder if a titan femur or eber head is a better hammer base for it

titan femur is 3% pen, eber head is another 44 flat

[tranquil bridge]

So is alignment passive node still not fixed? The 15% healing effectivness doesnt double on healing skills that cost over 10 mana.

[waxen nymph]

Holy!! He is smelting

[turbid dome]

forge em up

[quiet hearth]

No wrinkles in that brain build, only bonk

[iron basin]

SW insults don't bother me, they just roll off my smooth brain

[quiet hearth]

Cant hear you over the sound of the burning hatred

hatred for all fancy skills and mechanics, advancing.....technically forward

My only real issue with smelters is honestly the slow start and stop, just let us walk around while charging already. ES gets to zoom around, at least let us slug forward.

[turbid dome]

clearly big unga bunga is the best

[icy jay]

I always wished to build something functional with smelter's wrath but always failed

[turbid dome]

we can turn while charging it now so thats something

[iron basin]

i've played it a few times now

smelter's wrath as a skill is a lot of fun imo. it satisfies that BIG hit itch for me

your clear is just weird. you wait to pile stuff up then slam

[icy jay]

Did you share your build anywhere?

[iron basin]

kinda. I haven't put together any planner for something I've actually played since 1.2

[icy jay]

I menaged to do something along those line with a beastmaster earthquake build

[icy jay]

Ah well fair enough

[quiet hearth]

I tried making a nuclear axe throw smelters once, it worked...technically

[iron basin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOx-ivEWtr8

there's a planner in the description. this was made for a contest

so the contest required you to use the set affixes somehow

[icy jay]

Thx

[iron basin]

it's slow, very slow. but it's fun seeing big numbers

[silk wasp]

Oop found a bug with LE Tools

[iron basin]

yeah there's a handful right now

dammitt has a bug report page on his discord

[dense mulch]

The Blackfire sentinel Idol Affix changed from converting 100% of shield throw’s damage to Void to grants Shield Throw 4-8% chance to Fork on its first Ricochet.

Why didn't they just made another idol, void built has been desecrated

Having it on body armour isnt as good as the idol slot

[iron basin]

i'd rather it be on body armor

idol tax just to make it void damage sucked

less block effectiveness idols

[quiet hearth]

I just realized that the Leonine helm is STILL the best base in the game xD

[iron basin]

i need it to protect my smooth

[quiet hearth]

That helm needs to be nerfed so bad, or the other bases brought up signifigantly

[iron basin]

i think every class just needs bases on that tier that don't get unique versions

each class having a base helmet that pretty much just solves a stat seems fine

[mint rock]

oh warpath has been nerfed

I didnt realise

[quiet hearth]

how has wp been nerfed?

[mint rock]

hasnt the passive been changed

warriors fury

[wooden monolith]

omg imprint has been nerfed

[waxen nymph]

Noice

Loots caches buffed

[icy jay]

Y

[quiet hearth]

WF is only one node and that is more a build nerf, if anything it buffs the skill overall as now it enables a new playstyle for others

[orchid juniper]

wait did they nerf the flat melee void damage affix

[mint rock]

so it has been nerfed, isnt that the biggest dmg scaling it has?

[orchid juniper]

actually no I think I had a planner misconfig thing never mind

[quiet hearth]

For VK's it will be, for everyone else it's more or less the same or a slight buff as now it doesnt scale to the moon and you can solve the mana sustain for more builds.

[waxen nymph]

Letools has some bugs

[quiet hearth]

That node change is more nerfing buffing builds, than the skill itself

[orchid juniper]

I had been using a +50ish flat void damage legendary affix as a standin for the adaptive flat from my weapon on a low-budget planner lmao, and opening it today it's showing a roll range of 29-37

[wooden monolith]

not sure i want to play anymore if 2t7 slam is dead

[iron basin]

LETools is bugged

legendary stats are reduced for some reason

[mint rock]

its not 'dead' its just gonna take like a month to get 2t7 lp gear lmao

[quiet hearth]

oh no, a whole month

[iron basin]

mike actually talked about it on stream. he said 2t7s are intended to be really rare

[clever hazel]

seems like the item type multipliers aren't working on LEtools atm, where certain item types get a fixed multiplier to affix values

would explain the randomly lower values

[mint rock]

horrible decision, its easy af to get lp1 gear so what theres a big dozens of hours grind between that and t2's? I suppose t3/4 are just impossible

[iron basin]

i disagree, it's a good decision. it helps curtail power creep without directly nerfing stats

[mint rock]

Gear progression is the entire point of the game, nerf powercreep some other way

[quiet hearth]

It's really not, and I doubt it will take a month to get those if you play any real amount of time.

[gusty abyss]

I just dont see the joy in slamming t7+t5, then gambling on a 40-80 affix pool and then also having to hit a t5+ tier

Feels like way to much RNG

[quiet hearth]

That I agree with, I would like more targeted options. Im a big fan of pity timers, like either I get lucky or I shove enough of whatever into this item and I will eventually get there.