💬┃general

[sharp heron]

Guys, stop feeding him sense. He is immune, just dont respond

[turbid mason]

All in all I just want this game to succeed.

[turbid mason]

Please stop degrading character

[copper sorrel]

It's all good. Do not worry what we do with our time. I enjoy this conversation.

[brittle fjord]

You just can't admit you're wrong.

[brittle fjord]

It's not a good look for you resorting so much to insults in a debate, even if in this instance you are correct.

[turbid mason]

When I look up a definition that I’m arguing for, and it’s quite literally stated, there’s no wrong in that regard.

[brittle fjord]

Source of your definition?

[copper sorrel]

Is it an insult, if its stating objective truth?

[gritty helm]

Well, that's why I said that apologising and reverting the decision won't matter much. Changing someone's mind is very hard

[brittle fjord]

I got mine from the Oxford Dictionary which is a pretty widely accepted source

[turbid mason]

Are you allowed to send screenshots here?

[copper sorrel]

Not saying it's true, just using it as an example

[brittle fjord]

Not sure but it'll be disabled if it's not allowed anyway

[inner finch]

According to the Oxford Dictionary,

to make a false statement with the intention to deceive

[simple bison]

This is the definition of a lie. The key words are "to decieve". EHG did not make the statement that they wouldn't put any paid content into the game with the intent to decieve anyone, thus it is not a lie.

[turbid mason]

Also according to the Oxford dictionary: “not telling the truth.”

[sharp heron]

I'm trying to help his/her character development by shining at what the problem is. I gave the best answer possible, a long one and he just ignores every word he is given.

This was my last resort to make this person enlightened, what the problem in his arguments are. They ignore reason. I hope, he will see it one day, was what I mean by that.

[simple bison]

You cannot predict the future when making a promise

[turbid mason]

Degrading someone and then trying to put it out like you weren’t isn’t what your intent was.

[inner finch]

LE not having paid content was the truth back then

[simple bison]

I can say I promise to say thank you in an hour and then die in ten minutes, did I lie? no. But I also didn't fulfill the promise

[sharp heron]

I might be lying, but you won't know for sure 🤡 how do you know my intent?

[turbid mason]

Yeah, I understand. That’s why I’m okay knowing the circumstances. Sometimes models like this are implausible, especially as a small studio.

[inner finch]

How are 10 people simultaniously telling you that you're wrong and providing 101 explenations and analogies still happening lol

[brittle fjord]

Link? I am also using Oxford Dictionary and it specifically mentions an intent to deceive

[turbid mason]

Yup, and now it’s not the truth. I’m not gonna go around in a circular conversation about this. I’ve already quoted the definition, but we’re all entitled to our own opinions I guess.

[inner finch]

[simple bison]

I feel like by pretty much any definition and you'd logically agree that you only lie when you know what you're saying isn't true right

[sharp heron]

GUYS! I MADE HIM UNDERSTAND THAT INTENT IS WHAT MAKES A LIE

I WON

[copper sorrel]

The truth is, if you tell its 8 'o clock, but the shift in magnetic field of the earth pulled your clockwork and it's in fact 7:59:59'999 you are not trying to decieve. But would you say you are lying? Given you could say the certain time, you just didn't make absolutly sure.

[inner finch]

Sir, a 12th analogy has entered the chat, he will still refuse to read and understand it

[simple bison]

If I think something is true and say it as such, but it turns out to be untrue. That doesn't mean I lied, it simply means I was ignorant to the facts

[violet adder]

there might be some job applications that need filling out guys

[turbid mason]

I’m just going to concede because I think I started too much negativity in a time like this on this discord where we’re suppose to share equal love for a game and opinions. So, I’m sorry. You’re one of the more respectful people here and I appreciate it. Just now my heavy handed opinion comes with passion towards the game. Sorry, again, for stirring the pot.

[copper sorrel]

Don't concede. It's not a battle to be won. We're all in here together, as one flow of energy.

[simple bison]

You're fine. And this isn't me or honestly I think anyone here being negative because you're disappointed at the decision EHG made, I think a lot of people are and it's totally fine to critique it and be disappointed in it.

[turbid mason]

Thing is I’m disappointed, but it isn’t stopping me from buying the DLC 🤣

[simple bison]

The actual expansion will be free for you if you already own the game :P

it's just the class that's paid

[gritty helm]

I won't buy the class if it's boring, but considering I like a lot pretty much every class in the game

Chances of it happening are 0% lol

[simple bison]

yep, I'll likely buy it too even if it doesn't interest me a ton

[turbid mason]

Yeah, that’s what I’m talking about. It’s the same thing with CA company. I can complain about their DLC policies, but guess who owns all of them? lol

[brittle fjord]

I think I puked a little

[copper sorrel]

Feeling better now?

[simple bison]

Yeah we've never discouraged negative feedback here and I'll do my best to keep it that way. I don't want this discord to become an echo chamber where no real feedback can be given

[brittle fjord]

No

[sharp heron]

So guys, what is your favourite build in the season?

[simple bison]

Shatter strike :P

[brittle fjord]

For me it was Frogs, right up my street

Lazy minions

[turbid mason]

I just now realized you’re a mod, lol. Thank you for that. I’ll be on my way!

[zinc blaze]

Good ol Cyberborg, never gives up on shatter strike

[simple bison]

Damn right

[sharp heron]

Mustr be more fun that bear, for sure. The worst minion builds are single minions

[simple bison]

They keep nerfing me ;(

[copper sorrel]

Curious, were you interested in how his thought process was?

[sharp heron]

For them being cluncky to manage

[zinc blaze]

They nerf me by not letting me get anomaly’s cooldown even lower

[sharp heron]

I have played it a lot. I would love Flame Reave be viable though. Or any other than Shatter Strike tbh on that mastery

[simple bison]

same

[inner finch]

Shatter strike size and shape buffs

then we can negotiate

[sharp heron]

by far the coolest mastery acrhetype for me

[scenic fog]

When the promise was made, there were finite variables as far as they knew at that time, then those variables changed as times and the game changed, remember also that it was a promise made pre-pandemic, instead of being static values they became X and Y. Naturally when this happened something had to give in order to keep the game running.

[copper sorrel]

Frostyboy would be a cool name for a voidknight.

[zinc blaze]

Sadly vk has no cold skills

[copper sorrel]

Void is basically cold. Some like blue more tho, yes

[gritty helm]

which can mean only one thing, void is at comfortable room temperature

[zinc blaze]

Yea

[sharp heron]

Thermodinamically speaking, void can not have heat, since there are no particles that can move and generate heat. Like space. It is cold af.

[gritty helm]

well that can only mean that LE void in fact has some kind of gas

it's not void of matter unlike the name suggests

[sharp heron]

if it was room temperature, maybe. But you dont know that

The name suggests its cold

[gritty helm]

but not cold enough to deal cold damage ? I guess that makes sense as well

[copper sorrel]

Just like ice can burn, void can ice

[sharp heron]

Cold can leave burn marks. Is it hot though?

[inner finch]

idk what void exactly is, but it feels like what it does it take influence of physical things. I feel like void would not appear on the periodic table.

[gritty helm]

or Eterra's scientists are quacks

that's also possible

[sharp heron]

we jokin

[inner finch]

void to me feels like the opposite of holy

#MakeHolyDamageHappen

[gritty helm]

I've played pathfinder2e enough to know how big of a rabbit hole it is

[sharp heron]

I imagine void being growing nothing basically. Like space. Void Rot is literally making your disappear while spreading, which is scary af.

Also big void damage is just hitting you with black holes is funny

[inner finch]

closest thing in astronomy i can think of is dark matter

[sharp heron]

it actually could be antimatter like thing, since antimatter basically travels backwards in time

You might be onto something

[inner finch]

EHG, if we ever get a Celestial, (out of the tree of masteries Monk also come from of course) can it please have dark matter and black hole stuff? thanks

[sharp heron]

that is void knight for now

And since Void Knight has black holes and time travel, I now think it is based on antimatter

thanks to you

[zinc blaze]

Sorc has black hole

[night marten]

Sorc has a literal black hole right now

Rip

[inner finch]

it is what it is

that's how useful and popular that skill is, btw

[sharp heron]

true

[calm jay]

I just wanna see necro and void dmg types shared by one class. The generic evil loadout

[inner finch]

id love to see void coming to warlock and BD

[zinc blaze]

Gimmie a full chronomancer class

[ancient sequoia]

I would also enjoy a rework of a lot of unique items to make a lot of them more viable. and a lot of skills too

[inner finch]

What you are describing here is... probably what is currently planned to have payments behind

[ancient sequoia]

right now it feels like dread shade is almost mandatory for a lot of necromancer builds and I would personally love to be able to kill ubberoth with my minion army necro

[zinc blaze]

If the overall content of the expansion is fun and enjoyable ima buy the paid class

If it’s not fun ima not

Either way I’m gonna buy less mtx

I get that EHG needs money, it’s a company

[vagrant citrus]

I have no grievance with paid classes... there are 15 free ones built into the base game, why are people griping about optional paid content for those who want it.

[lean berry]

Nor do I, however, a lot of people bought into the game based on absolute promises made by EHG so it's understandable.

Keep in mind that as far as we know, paid classes and base game classes (as far as we know) will have shared leaderboards and a shared economy. This creates a very real pay-to-win situation. Is it egregious? I don't think so. Is it disappointing? Yes, quite.

[vagrant citrus]

Thats an interesting angle to it, I will buy that. Just that some members in the community are letting their naivety turn into toxicity saying the game is officially ruined which is a drastic overreaction in my opinion

[lean berry]

I do think a lot of the upset is overblown, but I think the general sentiment that LE was poorly managed by EHG is a valid one. If you've been following the game for years, it's hard not to see how many opportunities EHG had to course-correct. From releasing an unfinished game out of early access to years of neglecting monetization. EHG has known (or should have known) for years that their cosmetic monetization strategy wasn't working in large part due to the transmog system being very basic as well as the cosmetics themselves (the vast majority of them) being of very poor quality.

[vagrant citrus]

Yeah I agree with that, thanks for offering well construed valid criticisms. Ultimately, LE is what a $35 game, if they want to add more paid content for those who want it I would prefer that as opposed to EHG going insolvent and the game dies

[lean berry]

They simply didn't manage their priorities very well and this situation they find themselves in is pretty much of their own making and not because of external market forces necessarily. So it's hard to take EHG's side for the circumstances they find themselves in currently. That said, ultimately I do want to see LE continue even if that means under new management because yes it's just a $35 game and I got plenty of value out of it for what it costs and I really stand to lose nothing (in my opinion, any way) regardless of how the game's development unfolds in the future.

But I do think it's important to be able to decouple your own feelings towards the game and step into the shoes of other buyers and really consider why they bought the game.

[vagrant citrus]

Yeah thats fair, what I believe is an overrreaction is saying "the developers have chosen a direction of the product that I personally disagree with, therefore the product is ruined now" but to each their own, nobody should dictate how people have fun or not

[lean berry]

Yeah, I understand both yours and those players' perspectives. It's like being squeezed out of a long-time hobby, whether it's because you got priced out of the hobby or because fundamental changes to the hobby make it no longer appealing to you.

It's tough when you get super invested into a game and suddenly there are big changes that (in your perception) devalue the time you've invested into the game up until now. It's why I try not to get too attached to live service games anymore.

[quartz moat]

personally im still baffled by how they sold 3 million copies at $30 each and still arent profitable. they must have insane server costs or something

and if thats the case, they would have been very profitable if it was a single player game...

[lean berry]

Assuming that LE's infrastructure is hosted on one of the major cloud compute providers like Amazon, Google or Microsoft, yeah the costs would be enormous. I work in cloud computing for a smaller provider and a lot of our business comes from big companies trying to optimize hosting costs because the top providers are very prohibitive to non-Enterprise customers.

Just checked the network traffic for LE and they seem to use some combination of Amazon AWS, Microsoft (Azure, maybe?), Google, and some company called "servers.com" so yeah kinda expect it's costing them a lot.

[quartz moat]

given that most people play solo anyway, i think making it a live service game was a mistake

[lean berry]

I both agree and disagree. In hindsight, I think I would've preferred the single player experience over a live service, agree. However, I can't ignore the popularity of Merchant's Guild, like it's really popular.

[quartz moat]

i wonder if there was a way for them to keep MG while keeping the game mostly single player with optional MP

right now most people go online simply because the game is on steam and why not

but they dont use MG or play in parties anyway, so it just costs EHG money

[lean berry]

Nah there's effectively no way to have MG in a single player game.

Once data goes offline, it can be modified.

That said, I do think LE could've had a good single player experience that basically negates the demand for MG in the first place.

Also following Grim Dawn's strategy, there would've been a plethora of mods that addressed different pain points across players.

The crazy thing is that Unity modding very well established and very powerful. LE's modding scene could have brought innovation to the game for free.

As opposed to modding in Grim Dawn, which is very obscure and undocumented, very hard to get into modding Grim Dawn and even then it's very imperfect with many limitations. By contrast, Unity modding is leagues ahead and LE could've actually capitalized on that advantage as a single player focused game.

Instead, LE focused on the live service part of the game and never actually embraced modding, which is why there's only 16 LE mods on Nexusmods as opposed to 151 mods for Grim Dawn, a much harder game to mod than LE.

[quartz moat]

ive heard that unity modding is well established and all that, but thats not the case in my experience. e.g. when i was playing pathfinder kingmaker, i was shocked to find out that there were practically no updated mods for the game and nobody had bothered to make any unofficial bug fix patches at all. and when i tried modding the game, i found out it was actually quite hard. changing enlarge person to work for undead races was not as simple as changing a few text lines, it was incredibly complicated IIRC

and that was probably why there were so few mods for the game

[lean berry]

Owlcat games are a bit special, I think. It's not like modding a typical Unity game.

[quartz moat]

what makes them special?

[lean berry]

I don't think you can just easily throw on BepInEx or MelonLoader

When I think good Unity modding, I think games like Rimworld or even Megabonk as a recent example (which is IL2CPP, but still easily moddable)

[quartz moat]

also iirc grim dawn modding wasnt that hard and it has a really powerful and easy to use editor program i think, i was able to get into modding it quite easily

there were a few undocumented and hardcoded stuff, but not that bad

[lean berry]

I don't have the specifics, but I do remember the process was quite different from typical Unity modding with BepInEx/MelonLoader.

At the time I was trying to mod Rogue Trader, which shares a lot of similarities to modding Wrath of the Righteous

[lean berry]

Well the main thing with Grim Dawn is that you can only have one actual "mod" and the tools themselves are very dated.

[quartz moat]

ah right, you cant load more than one mod

[lean berry]

Basically in order to have multiple mods in Grim Dawn, you have to perform a mod merge manually.

[quartz moat]

i think the also used the titan quest engine? so quite dated tbh

[stoic frigate]

There might be some miscomms? Or I'm just dumb, idk, but I'm reading this as Byte also talking on the technical side of actually making the mods as well as the "consumer" part of using them

[lean berry]

The thing is, despite these limitations, modding in Grim Dawn is very popular and it's a huge part of what made the game so successful even today. That's why Grim Dawn has more concurrent players right this moment than LE does.

[quartz moat]

yea, its a shame that LE has no mod support

there are so many things i would mod if i could

[stoic frigate]

Some day (coping)

[lean berry]

Yeah that's my point exactly, there would've been a very enthusiastic modding community willing to contribute free labor.

I'd probably be making mods too. Only reason I don't make mods in Grim Dawn is because it's just really annoying and I'm not a Lua guy either lol

It's unfortunate that EHG didn't turn the weakness of Unity into a strength by embracing modding.

Think Unity games like Rimworld that don't have official modding APIs, you just use BepInEx/MelonLoader as a way to load any mod that can then patch any part of your game's code without a formal API. This is very, very powerful.

[stoic frigate]

A shame. The Risk of Rain 1 community always loves getting new mod creators because nobody ever wants to fkin do it xdd

[shut quiver]

So basically u want ppl to consider the fact that other ppl have opinions/beliefs that may differ from their own and most importantly u want them to be objective and not take things personally. On the internet. Yeah idk about that chief

[lean berry]

I bet RoR2 modding scene is popping off though, but that's just a guess

Ever since Megabonk, at least.

[lean berry]

I know, completely unreasonable :(

Looks like LE uses IL2CPP (transpiles C# bytecode into C++), makes modding more difficult but still quite easy.

And is already supported by mod loaders like BepInEx/MelonLoader and patchers like Harmony.

[stoic frigate]

RoR2 moddin scene has been going nuts the past couple years, and that's saying something cuz we've had a big modding scene since almost launch

[lean berry]

Yup, 2962 mods for RoR2 on Thunderstore right now. It's crazy.

[balmy arrow]

[obtuse bay]

[simple bison]

[muted cape]

[inner finch]

[shut quiver]

Any EHG member online? I have genre related question

[copper sorrel]

Yes @main frigate

[inner finch]

[main frigate]

?

🤔 Congras, you summoned Judd in a special way anways

[south moat]

Probably better to ask during the week when community manager is online
or maybe if Muffin is online later
Just don't ping the other ppl than community managers

[scenic fog]

Morning all, what boggles my mind about all of this is Blizzard just rolled out a 40 dollar pre-purchase for the paladin/expansion and no one is saying a thing about it. But we are still talking about EHG charging for a class just so they can stay alive financially...

And the class EHG wants to roll out is months away.

Warped standards much?

[brittle hollow]

But logic doesn’t apply here.. EHG lied to our face for years and years wahhh

Which btw the prepurchase is essentially required to play the previous expansion.. I’m guessing they will fix it but people were locked out of their previous expansion 🤣

[scenic fog]

But they didn't. They were sincere at the time because they were new to this. At the time that promise was made it was a genuine, sincere promise. But times change, and costs increase. The only crime they are guilty of here is being too human... I don't understand the lack of empathy here.

The word "business" should not cancel the word "humanity"

[brittle hollow]

I don’t either.. it’s blown way out of proportion. I’m just hoping that all these people are truly the vast minority of the player base because otherwise it’s game over now…

[scenic fog]

I can put myself in Judd's shoes. It's 2018, your passion and love for your craft is brimming at the seems. You see like-minded gamers out there and you just wanna do right by them and make something awesome. You make a promise with love in your heart for all of it, the community, the genre, the game you're making. It's your heart and you are so thrilled people support your vision. Then life catches up, unforeseen circumstances arise, and suddenly you have to go back on your well-meant promise and it breaks your heart.

[shut quiver]

I cant say anything about that because i don't buy/play any of activision blizzard games

Its not like they make bad games. Their games are MOSTLY well polished and pretty fun

But down the line they do something thats scummy and they keep repeating that so I just stopped being part of that community

[scenic fog]

Warcraft 3:Reforged.

[shut quiver]

Same logic applies here

Well, edited my comment then 😂

[south moat]

Oh man, reforged
Really nice how they also patched the original and removed some voice lines, some animation frames etc etc

[shut quiver]

Anyone voicing their opinions, regardless of what side they are on, are in minority tho. At least here on discord

Whether what they say is relevant to the game or not, whether its about the core game or live service aspect, all these opinions are coming from what, 50 ppl at best?

[brittle hollow]

True.. so I’ll change it to “hopefully the doomposters in here are the minority and it’s not the overall opinion of the playerbase, whether the are talking or not”.

Because indeed, most of the playerbase does not engage in discord or Reddit or steam forums. But I will assume they kept up with the news

[shut quiver]

Sure but IF the playerbase drops this game, we wouldn't know why they did tho

Is it cuz of mtx? The paid classes? Lack of content in end game? Complaints with the general structure of end game?

[empty sentinel]

Just tried my first empowered monolith, I died all the time lol

[scenic fog]

Don't lose heart, you can do it.

[balmy arrow]

[sour idol]

I still like it so much more over poe2 lol. I felt like I was in some sort of nightmare where my head kept saying reroll. I can't believe I quit poe2 just after act 1.

I really appreciate LE letting you make or find a decent weapon without requiring insane levels of RNG in the campaign. Especially with combining skill synergy in a way that doesn't make my hands hurt.

[ripe holly]

I'm getting weird stuttering just launching the game after recent update

Offline ain't workin either >_>

[night marten]

There hasnt been an update for LE in like, 2 months. so it's prolly not an patch side issue since there really hasnt been any other complaints.

if true offline isnt working, its a PC problem, since there are no servers to connect to cause any issues.

i'd do a verify files incase something went wonky on your update

[ripe holly]

I did the file integrity and it was fine
Rebooted
Out all graphics on low
Nvidia control panel - set game to integrated graphics (on a laptop)

It was playing perfectly a few months ago before this update

The music is stuttering at the login screen and the buttons aren’t really responding to clicking

[severe socket]

By integrated graphics you meant the laptop's actual GPU?

[ripe holly]

Yeah

[severe socket]

And yes, there were driver issues on nvidia's end.

Might want to check for updates there as well.

[ripe holly]

Windows update installed some intel shit and it may have caused an issue
I’m uninstalling it now

[severe socket]

...?

What exactly was it?

[ripe holly]

Intel integrated graphics control panel

[severe socket]

If it's Intel, then it's 100% related to your hardware components.

And you're NOT to remove those.

Usually anyway.

[ripe holly]

All the items in it were disabled because it was for intel integrated graphics only

[severe socket]

As it should.

For your Nvidia GPU, you should have its own drivers installed and up to date.

Keep in mind that Nvidia drivers should NOT be managed by Windows Update.

Ever.

Might want to install Nvidia App and work up from there.

[ripe holly]

I'm downloaing nvidia drivers right now to update

[severe socket]

Good.

[ripe holly]

i'm stuck on hotel wifi so it takin 30 mins >_<

[severe socket]

I've seen a lot of cases where updating the Nvidia driver which involved a reboot prompted Windows to just shove its own driver in.

While the proper driver was out of commission.

[woven sentinel]

Oof the weekend flew by. Got stuck playing D4 haha

[gritty helm]

PoE2, but same otherwise haha

[acoustic belfry]

uh

how do I deal with the remove only stash?

is it really the intended solution that I manually remove and re-sort every item and tab and pay again for new tabs?

[night marten]

Yeah. They cant just move the season tabs to legacy, cuz then there would be an issue when you reached 200 legacy tabs.

So, you have to do a little work instead of losing pages of tabs

And the items inside them

The tabs are still there from s1 and they havent announced them being deleted, so there isnt any big rush to move them right now

[acoustic belfry]

it's not so much that, it's that I can't put stuff back in after I took it out, so now my character's inventory is full

I read some argument about people getting free tabs or something which is the least important aspect, but if you keep your seasonal tabs, why on earth can you not put your stuff back in them

[night marten]

They are temp tabs. The idea is to take them out. Eventually they will be deleted...just not been announced

You also get all the gold when you merge so affording tabs shouldnt be an issue

[ripe holly]

Holy crap, I finally fixed it
I had to disable Windows error Reporting

[gritty helm]

I don't even question why error reporting would cause it

Machine spirit was clearly angry

[night marten]

Make sure you do your daily Omnissiah prayers

[calm jay]

Something something motive force

waggles fingers

[chrome geode]

Just want to point out the poe2's druids skills are swappable. LE should have had the same design.

Asked for this a few months ago :/

[calm jay]

What does this entail?

Curious, don't play PoE2 myself

[hazy oracle]

I wanted to bring my friend to LE, but considering last news he heard me and opened steam page, saw recent feedback and said he won't play p2w game. Lmfao 🤣

[south moat]

I know someone who complained about the paid class for LE
then he bought the d4 dlc early to get access to paladin right away

[night marten]

again, its just expectations. everyone expects it from blizz, so its not a big deal.

[scenic fog]

Cubical crawling, stolen breast milk, warcraft 3 reforged, please remember who Blizzard is.

[long viper]

dont forget, everyone has a cell phone

[lean berry]

Yeah pretty much. I've been calling Spiritborn and Runewords pay-to-win since they were announced, of course the dad gamer crowd for D4 really doesn't care for the most part. There's a major difference in expectations between companies and ultimately the only thing that actually makes a difference to consumers is how good your product is.

There's a lot of things LE does way better than D4, but it's hard to argue that LE has a complete or even polished game.

That said, if EHG actually manages to exceed expectations and release something that is truly awesome and hard to ignore as a consumer, I think a lot of people would be willing to look past the paid class drama.

[simple bison]

Eh by the time the spirit born dlc came out I feel like you could and a lot of people did say the same about D4 I feel. Imo LE is a more complete experience than D4 was at that point, I don't know how much D4 has added since because I haven't played it in a long time but yeah.

[stoic frigate]

(I'm going to say I very much disagree with that Cyborg, and I'm a day zero D4 player)

[lean berry]

LE also makes you slog through a very, very boring campaign. You can say the same about PoE, but the campaign in PoE1 and 2 are actually good.

[simple bison]

Eh I disagree I much prefer LE's campaign structure to poe 1

Quality wise I'd say poe is better but actually getting through the campaign is much less of a slog for me in LE

[lean berry]

D4 also has a much better co-op experience and co-op is actually a big part of D4's success.

LE is a live service with a poor co-op experience.

[simple bison]

Oh yeah for sure. This isn't me saying D4 is bad, it's super successful for a reason

[stoic frigate]

The PoE2 campaign is good with the caveat of it being far too stingy with gems and items, and having some imo unacceptable artifical extension

[simple bison]

Yeah poe 2 probably has the best campaign of the bunch imo. D4 has a solid campaign too imo

[lean berry]

Yeah, the scarcity is a problem I agree. I don't know if they've addressed it any further in the recent league.

[simple bison]

But I personally just dislike arpg campaigns in general and because of that I prefer LE's the most since it's just the most streamlined, straight forward and shortest

[lean berry]

Big thing with D4 is nobody actually does the campaign anymore, you just skip it. GGG might argue this is not a good thing, but for D4's audience it's a great thing.

[simple bison]

Oh right I forgot you could do that in D4, yeah I'd definitely be in the skip club

Even in LE id skip the campaign

[lean berry]

Perhaps LE should embrace the same because their campaign experience is nowhere near as good as PoE's (IMO) to justify doing it every new season.

[simple bison]

But LE's is basically the best of the bad if that makes sense. It's the one i mind the least

I'll skip entire poe leagues because I can't be bothered with the campaign even though I'm decently fast at it

[lean berry]

There's also the fact that even if some people don't like having to slog through PoE1/2's campaigns every league, the light at the end of the tunnel (basically the entire patch notes for a new league) is substantial and worth it.

[simple bison]

Yep

Well, idk about saying that for poe 2 still but definitely true for poe 1

Poe 2 will get there too though I don't doubt that

[lean berry]

I guess you could see it as how much unfun content do I have to endure to get to the fun content, and how much fun content is there. 6 hours of unfun content, 20 hours of fun content? 8 hours of unfun content, 100 hours of fun content?

I think LE has consistently had a poor ratio of unfun:fun.

[stoic frigate]

I actually don't mind doing LE's campaign, it's that there's the slog of unlocking monos one by one afterwards combined with dragging my way to a level of corruption that actually does anything and having to do harbingers on top that really sours it for me.

[lean berry]

Honestly, I'd just put that into the unfun category. The same exists with PoE 1/2 mapping as well, but I don't think it takes nearly as long to get through but I might be mistaken.

[stoic frigate]

PoE1 you can go from tier 1 maps to tier 16 in like, a couple hours if you have prior experience

[lean berry]

Getting to high tier maps is quick, yep

[stoic frigate]

No janky/lame/unfun required bosses in that either

[lean berry]

So I guess more than just the campaign, there's this idea of content that just feels like a chore.

And LE has a lot of it.

With not as much actually fun content by the time you've finished those chores.

[stoic frigate]

No endgoal either

[lean berry]

I'm still surprised that LE still only has basically just one endgame mechanic that is actually equivalent to a single PoE core league mechanic. Monos

PoE has... how many?

[stoic frigate]

Delve, heist, mapping, several boss farms, blighted maps, 16.5 or 17 farms (which do play different than normal maps), arguably Kingsmarch

[lean berry]

Yeah, there's a lot of stuff that PoE has which is completely distinct and separate from the core mapping system.

[stoic frigate]

Temple farm

[lean berry]

LE has some variety of content, but it's all within the mono system.

[stoic frigate]

I'm missing some

[lean berry]

At this point, the size of GGG as a studio is no longer relevant, because GGG had a lot of this stuff when they were also a much smaller studio.

[stoic frigate]

That isn't touching hideout warrior gameplay

[lean berry]

The time that has passed since LE's release and the content we see implemented since then and EHG's growing size is no longer an excuse.

GGG did more with less. Plain and simple.

I probably will pay for LE DLC and try out the paid classes and all the new paid content eventually coming. I want to support EHG and support more ARPGs and LE is actually one of the good ones overall IMO, but I think it's important to be honest with the state of LE.

[calm jay]

It's not unrecoverable or anything and it's far from dedgame status, but I think it's worth noting where successful ventures into the genre have done things right

Or in layman's terms

In a world where Shroud of the Avatar can exist, Last Epoch has every right, lol

[stoic frigate]

I want LE to be good. I also am disappointed that they did the exact thing they said they wouldn't and as such am holding back my support. Not going to try and spin it any other way, they did something I didn't like, so I'm no longer a paying customer

[calm jay]

Well it was box price and I didn't ever buy MTX nor plan to unless they did something amazing to the shop. I think I looked in it twice out of curiosity and never again. So for me, I've made off like a bandit, got my satisfactory level of playtime out of it, enjoyed it all, will happily go back as long as servers are up.

Paid classes are something I'd probably dive in on depending on the class & price point, and I think lots of new entrants will be similar, esp when they drop with new content and a surge of new players comes in.

[lean berry]

Regardless of circumstance, it's understandable. Most people have to pick and choose where they spend on entertainment and it's totally fair to make a value judgement based on experience.

[calm jay]

Yeah, and it's important to be taking criticism at a stage where it's been two deliveries of bad news back to back. Nobody was happy to hear the paid experience news, nobody was happy to hear about the length until the next season.

[lean berry]

Even if I personally don't think the announcement is a big deal given the circumstances, I also don't fault or judge anyone who does feel a certain way about it and decides to stop supporting the game and clearly there's an enormous negative response that could have a real impact on LE's future development so I think people who do actually want to see LE succeed shouldn't be so dismissive of player criticisms, alienating critics is a good way to kill the game.

[stoic frigate]

Alienating folks giving criticism gives way to "toxic positivity", which is a good way to make it seem very echo chamber-like and.... well, that kinda stuff is very obvious at first glance

[lean berry]

Yeah, echo chambers are not a good place for creative thought.

[calm jay]

They're also boring as all hell

Not that that's particularly relevant but I thought I'd add it anyway.

[sour idol]

I get being disappointed, but I don't think this is a fair comparison. First, GGG really didn't have rivals. It basically monopolized the area and I doubt mtx back then were at the same level that's expected now. It also basically was/is a free demo with opting to get stash tabs if you like the game for QOL. LE in comparison has those QOL all wrapped up for in game currency. Over time, POE has included more dedicated tabs for content as well like the delve, essence, blight, fragment, map tab, currency etc.

It didn't even have the endgame systems other than maps till at least 2018 for Delve and POE came out 2013. That's 5 whole years before they had something other than maps. Because POE has them, now people are unsatisfied with LE for not having anything other than arena, dungeon and monoliths.

[lean berry]

PoE's early development did in fact have rivals. PoE itself came into existence as a rival to D3, but there was also a non-Blizzard ARPG market over the course of PoE's development. For a long time, PoE struggled to compete with D3.

It's true that Blizzard was extremely complacent with D3 and didn't take PoE very seriously and there's a valid point there, however PoE wasn't exactly playing on easy mode. PoE had an incredibly small team developing not just a deep ARPG but also a whole in-house ARPG game engine during a period of time where graphics programming was indisputably more challenging than it is today.

GGG wasn't in any position to just "pick up Unity and build an ARPG"

[young trellis]

what is with the negative steam reviews, thats hilarious this game is amazing

[sour idol]

That is true, making their own engine was definitely a big challenge. Just a very different set

[sour idol]

LE has put paid classes on the road map and because it was initially stated that there would not be a cost beyond the intial purchase, people are very upset. Then there's the war within that for paid classes vs. paid expansion. The release for the next season is also in March and it was stated previously that seasons should be 3 months, but it's generally been more than 3 months

[lean berry]

The way I see it, EHG has had plenty of opportunities to create something that exceeded expectations and in my opinion the gap comes down to management and talent.

So I don't really think it's unfair of a comparison.

I don't see this as an issue of not having enough resources.

More that resources have been misused.

[sour idol]

My opinion is just that it wasn't in a state to leave early access when it did. I liked the game a lot, but when you take it out of early access, you get far harsher comparisons because expectations are raised significantly.

[lean berry]

No disagreement there, I agree the game shouldn't have left early access when it did.

[sour idol]

I don't know what happened in the past, maybe it is like you said, maybe it isn't, but I still think it holds a lot of potential now despite everything and it's not Wolcen or NW.

[calm jay]

Sayonara NW

[lean berry]

Yeah I agree, I still think LE has a lot of potential for sure.

[young trellis]

People are crybabies. The game is fine and is continuing to be fine, who cares if there is paid dlc just buy it and keep playing.

[scenic fog]

It's exhausting to see people still complaining about this while Blizzard dropped a paywall for paladin early access and no one gave a rats ass.

[lean berry]

But now, moreso than ever before, EHG is in a position of having to actually deliver something that exceeds expectations. They exhausted a lot of goodwill with those announcements and probably find themselves on a thornier path to profitability than before.

[stoic frigate]

Blizzard never explicitly told us they were not going to have paid content. In fact, they said the very opposite from day 1.

[lean berry]

The idea of "what about Blizzard" is also a completely moot point because such questions have no basis on the reality of how markets operate. What matters is LE's success or failure, that comes down to consumer perception and you'll never convince people with "what about"

[sour idol]

Something my manager told me once is when you take something away, people get really upset. It doesn't matter if something was actually taken away, just the idea rightly or wrongly that something is taken away makes people mad. And in this case it was that it was a 1 time cost. I'm still willing to pay it b/c I like LE

[lean berry]

I expected their promise was an unsustainable one and that expectation only strengthened over the course of early access as I didn't see any significant effort being made to monetize the game as a live service. Seems like some people actually argue this point as well to dismiss critics, calling them naive to take EHG's promise at face value. However, I think it's totally fair that consumers hold companies accountable for their promises.

[scenic fog]

Do you realise how unrealistic it is to expect that in today's economy? That promise was made pre-2020 before everything went to hell...

[lean berry]

Hah, what do ya know.

Just as I said that, someone did in fact argue and dismiss a critic on that basis.

[fleet moth]

campaign skip when

[sour idol]

Is using a dungeon key that bad?

[stoic frigate]

Like clockwork

[lean berry]

At least they didn't outright call you naive.

[lean berry]

It is when there's not much to look forward to at the end of the campaign. You still got a whole boring mono grind to slog through.

[stoic frigate]

It isn't even really that unrealistic of an expectation when you set up your game's monetization properly. Otherwise we wouldn't have the juggernaut that manages exactly that system.

[lean berry]

I would even argue that LE's attempts at monetization over the years was less than half-assed.

Bordering on gross negligence.

As I looked through supporter packs and cosmetics, I found myself always asking how this business model is sustainable for them because I can't expect they're selling a lot of that stuff. None of it appealed to me.

And yet they operated this way for years, almost like there was no introspection at all.

[stoic frigate]

I am fully expecting to get hit with the "but stash tabs are paid" argument, as if those aren't one time and people are just pouring money hand over fist for stash tabs over and over

[sour idol]

I thought some of the mtx did look cool, but there was so much in the pack that was so niche that I wasn't convinced about viability. The inability to upgrade the pack did not help

[lean berry]

I think most people who raise this argument don't realize that there's a ceiling to the benefits of stash tabs. Once you buy $30-$40 of stash tabs, buying more doesn't actually make you much more productive.

[sour idol]

People like to hoard, lol because gear you drop has the potential to be really good due to having a viable crafting system

[stoic frigate]

I am a hoarder and I have more unused tabs than some crafting groups

[lean berry]

When people say you can fully enjoy PoE with $35 of stash MTX, this is not an exaggeratiion. It's just the truth.

After that, you don't ever have to spend another dollar on PoE again.

But you can, and most certainly tons of people do, on cosmetic MTX. They have an amazing catalog of cosmetics.

[stoic frigate]

Exactly. I've spent roughly a grand on it over my 8 years, not because I needed to, but because I wanted to.

[sour idol]

In poe, most item I find are trash so there's not much to really hoard, lol. Some of the tabs were also gotten before dedicated tabs came up like gem, fragment

I'd also say, it was hard for me as bad-average player to earn chaos without the chaos recipe till scarabs.

[lean berry]

I feel like there's a ton of stuff you could hoard in PoE1 as crafting bases :P

(Addressing the implication that LE creates more demand for hoarding)

I think you mostly just end up hoarding different things.

[sour idol]

The way COF works, it's basically designed to give you too much stuff like overlflowing with quantity vs. quality

[stoic frigate]

I assure you Byte, I need the 100+ random influence bases with no plan or thought behind my picking them up

[sour idol]

I'm fightning to shake of chaos recipe mentality even now, lol.

[lean berry]

CoF does produce a lot of stuff for sure, I could see hoarding getting crazy in that case

[sour idol]

Yes and it's like what if I want to do a mage? Or about how about rogue with bleed or maybe shruikens? There's also the I want these exalted items for their stats so I can maybe combine it with a decent base or I've got this exalted item, I've always had this build I wanted to try which could use that exalted mod

Because there's no trade allowed, I'm worried that if I vendor it, I may not to be able to get something equivalent in the future

[lean berry]

I'm by no means an expert, but I feel like if you have significant knowledge across most (or all) of PoE's crafting systems, you could turn a poopy base into something crazy good.

[stoic frigate]

You can, it's just tedious and does involve some amount of gambling

[lean berry]

I always see some HC SSF streamer crafting something way better than I could in softcore trade league lol

[sour idol]

LE doesn't require you to get a degree in crafting to get usable gear, lol.

[stoic frigate]

The real stupid items are all in softcore standard

Some of them are literally illegal, but GGG just doesn't see value of fixing it (like the 20000% fire res armor)

[lean berry]

Yeah, LE has a good system for someone like me who wants to craft but is too dumb for anything super deep like PoE's various systems.

[lean berry]

I guess they just don't really care about the integrity of standard at all, which is fair

[sour idol]

In LE, I'm actually willing to try whereas with POE, you're playing with currency so 1 bad move and brick of item + crafting currency

[stoic frigate]

They deleted msot of them when the bug that made them happened, but some slipped by and were only revealed to the public years later, at which point they just went "yeah whatever, it's limited"

[lean berry]

This is mostly my criticism with PoE2, where it feels far less forgiving as a learning environment.

[thick lotus]

here comes the "crafter" role for poe market, and u can decide if u buy item from trade or craft by self with lesser moni but investing time

[sour idol]

I gave up on my druid there because I could not get a decent weapon for the longest time till I got lucky at a vendor

[lean berry]

Too much early resource scarcity in PoE2 to comfortably learn the few crafting systems that do exist.

[sour idol]

If people complain LE doesn't have enough endgame, POE2 has the opposite problem where there is no campaign QOL so I just quit

[balmy arrow]

[obtuse bay]

[brittle aurora]

its so fun to play tho

[severe socket]

Hiya.

[south moat]

hello there

[vagrant citrus]

both games are objectively good fair-priced products especially compared to the other slop that AAA studious have been pushing out for the past 5 years

[main frigate]

@primal abyss good day, remember to stay hydrated, which flavour of monster energy have you drunk and which flavours are available in your local stores?

[gritty helm]

uhm, doesn't D4 fall into that AAA category ? At least monetisation wise

[severe socket]

At this point I don't even know what AAA means anymore.

[primal abyss]

Such a loaded question for my early morning xD I don't drink energy drinks so don't pay attention to their flavors

Also, hello everyone

[severe socket]

Hiya Van.

[gritty helm]

Hello

[primal abyss]

Hope everyone had a nice weeekeeend~!

[main frigate]

:) Let the morning be loaded!

:( What a big pity that Van isn't a fan of energy drinks

But it's a happy man if he don't need caffeine to be awaked

[primal abyss]

💪

[south moat]

Honestly the weekend barely felt like a weekend

[main frigate]

I'm confused why Van showed his muscle suddenly

[gritty helm]

just a strong emoji, because he does not need the caffeine

[willow canopy]

Spent half my weekend playing poe 2 only to get stuck on the act one boss and gave up to go back to playing my spellblade on LE(I really wanted that level up cosmetic, but that boss kept killing me up)

[south moat]

I could've helped you with that

[primal abyss]

Dang. Now we know

Better suited for #📚┃off-topic

[main frigate]

That boss almost let me to give up poe 2 too. Have been.

[south moat]

Tbh last league he was giving me issues because I had very early lvl bow on my poison char
so it was just kinda awkward and took forever

[scenic fog]

Would you feel the same way if your mother or sister worked at Blizzard when all the criminal activity was occuring?

[brittle fjord]

I think most peoples issues are with EHG going back on a promise than the payed class itself.

If it wasn't already promised that all future content would be free they I don't think people would have reacted nearly as negatively which is understandable.

And it's 100% EHG's fault why they are in the position they are in currently, nobody elses. So yeah.

[zinc blaze]

psst its paid not payed

but also yeah that is a valid reason why people are upset at EHG

[tawny spire]

They can be upset all they want. But the paid class is a new game feature and a beta test, it does not violate the promise they made. It might be splitting hairs or debatable. But when it boils down to it. It really does not break a promise.

the content update is free - the beta test class is not. Promise kept

[royal sapphire]

It is only free due to backlash, and I bet 100% that paradox class was part of expansion in the first place, and then they decided to split it up and sell it

[brittle fjord]

Right you are ^^

[brittle hollow]

rinse-repeat-rinse-repeat-rinse-repeat

[brittle fjord]

They changed their mind on the xpac being free due to backlash like Soda said, but Mox has said previously all future content would be free. New classes is still content so yes it's a broken promise which is not a good look and a valid reason for people to get upset. You can be totally fine with it, it sure doesn't affect me personally but don't try and invalidate other people rightly being upset by this.

That was their stance since way back when the game was on Kickstarter

[brittle hollow]

They didn’t change their mind on anything. They never stated that xpac was paid

[brittle fjord]

And only recently changed due to mistakes EHG made

[brittle fjord]

They did in a video say there was a chance that it would be paid and it got massive backlash

[royal sapphire]

Bro, oct 3 announcement said MAYBE

[brittle hollow]

Said MAYBE

[royal sapphire]

then last annoucement said it was free

yes maybe is not FREE

free came later after backlash

[brittle hollow]

Oct announcement didn’t say about paradox classes either

[royal sapphire]

ofc not since they did not split it then

[brittle hollow]

Right right. You are absolutely right

You are all right

[brittle fjord]

As I said before, if you don't mind that is fair and up to you. But nobody should have their opinions invalidated especially when their opinions and feelings are justified.

[royal sapphire]

They needed a way to monetize the expac without monetizing the xpac

so they either came up with paradox class in a month between announcements, or originaly it was supposed to be a part of xpac

[brittle fjord]

The reason they need to monetise anything rn is because they massively messed up, content release is slow, MTX release is slow and of poor quality. No money coming in and lots of it going out.

[royal sapphire]

Yep. really bad management, I would say. Unfortunately

[brittle fjord]

EHG messed up and making it everyone elses problem.

[brittle hollow]

Or maybe means maybe and they didn’t know yet because they didn’t have it clear in their heads. You are immediately jumping to a conclusion that fits your view of the matter. Maybe means.. maybe.

[royal sapphire]

No m8, I just understand what I read, and what it means

[brittle hollow]

And I’m illiterate…

[brittle fjord]

The fact that is was a maybe is already them considering breaking a promise.

[royal sapphire]

If you know xpac will be free, why does it take over 2 months to say so?

[brittle hollow]

Bah with the promise. Promise this promise that. When they made the promise they kept it for 5 years. Things change. If you’d prefer it then let the studio not be bought by Crafton and shut down.

[royal sapphire]

No, things do not change if the things is your foundation and the reason game even exists in the 1st place

[brittle fjord]

A promise broken is still a promise broken regardless of time.

[brittle hollow]

Right. Because game development is a rigid thing

[royal sapphire]

You do understand this was their big selling point? To have all future content for free? And that alot of people put money into kickstarter BECAUSE of that?

[brittle hollow]

And it looks to me that future content is free

[brittle fjord]

Development isn't rigid but the difference is EHG made a promise and they had the means to keep it. Yet they didn't as it was easier not to.

[royal sapphire]

Classes are content

[brittle fjord]

EHG got lazy and bled money because of it.

[royal sapphire]

so no, its not free

[tawny spire]

new classes is new content in YOUR onionion - Again you are paying for a beta test of a class - Cosmetics is content - that is paid for.

[brittle hollow]

And I can tell you that classes are not content.. that’s what I believe.

[brittle fjord]

TL;DR people who are annoyed and well within their right to be annoyed, if you don't care that's fine. I know it doesn't affect me but at least I understand other peoples perspectives.

[tawny spire]

class's are not content at all

[brittle fjord]

No

[royal sapphire]

Just to point out, it took them 2 years to ask feedback for MTX that they haven't properly sold since 1.0

[tawny spire]

heart lungs tell me something - how much cosmetics have you bought in game to support

[royal sapphire]

Yes you dont play with classes, they do not add anything to the game

Thats why beastmaster and rogue are same

[brittle hollow]

They can be annoyed all they want. Please find some constructive feedback except “p2w classes” or “broken promises and lies”

[brittle fjord]

Every supporter pack

Non Kickstarter I should add

[tawny spire]

then why complain about a beta test class that may or may not be dog water?

[royal sapphire]

They have been receiving constructive feedback since beta

it will not be dogwater

it will be op

[brittle fjord]

You're not reading what I am writing evidently. I am not complaining about it, simply saying that people who are are well within their right to do so.

[tawny spire]

I was part of the kickstarter - I have 0 problem with them charging to keep the game going

[brittle fjord]

And that is fine

[royal sapphire]

Because no1 will buy a class that is straight worse at everything than a base class that you get for free

[brittle fjord]

But it also fine for people who aren't okay with it to say so

[royal sapphire]

Cool, but a lot of ppl do have issue and problem

[quick magnet]

You clowns wanting to never pay for anything else ever again is what's going to kill this game, mistakes or not

[royal sapphire]

Lol, ppl do want to buy good and decent mtx

[tawny spire]

the people writing about it are idiots - most of them do not buy cosmetics at all - they complain its not free. It is a new class - and chances are its going to be mix and pieces of other crap already in game - and lets be real does anyone expect it not to be broken lmao

[royal sapphire]

but it doesnt exist

[brittle fjord]

Whatever side you're on one think is a fact. EHG did break a promise. If you don't care that they did doesn't change that fact.

[quick magnet]

Feel free to enjoy things while they last. They're floundering and you don't care. Simple as. Just own that fact and stop pretending you're being slighted.

[tawny spire]

EHG is also not EHG anymore

[royal sapphire]

also you conveniently forget the base game is BUY TO PLAY

[brittle fjord]

If this is your stance it says a lot about you, just saying.

[quick magnet]

So is diablo 4 but people buy their shit as they want. Especially content.

[tawny spire]

no I am saying it is what I have observed and noted - majority of people do not even support the game.

[royal sapphire]

Not to mention, having paid classes will not change anything since it seems they avoid facing the problems they currently have. THis is just kicking the bucket down the road

[royal sapphire]

??? THEY ALL SUPPORT the game. since they bought it

[brittle fjord]

Even if that is true that is immaterial. They bought a product that promised all future content would be free. Supporter Packs aren't a mandetory payment.

[brittle hollow]

You are seriously debating about something that you have not seen, do not have a single iota of evidence about what it does. a whole YEAR before it’s released.

[quick magnet]

The aesthetic choices made for cosmetics are a point of subjective content so it's hard to really quantify what is or isn't "good" in the grander scheme. But it doesn't compare to blizzard (because duh) nore GGG.

[brittle fjord]

It's people like me and likely you who keep the game afloat.

[royal sapphire]

What that has to do with anything

[quick magnet]

They have a weird needle to thread there and it's not easy when it comes to taste in visuals

[tawny spire]

sweet - they bought it - got what they paid for now they want everything extra for free. That is not how the world works. If you buy a carton of milk you use it. It does not refill with new milk for 0 cost?

[royal sapphire]

Yes, as promised

[brittle hollow]

Show me the contract where that is stated. Show me where it says everything will be free from now on. In an official statement and part of the license of the game

[tawny spire]

what promise

[brittle fjord]

I have spent thousands supporting Path of Exile over the years but most people are privileged enough to do so. When PoE first came out I was mostly a free to play player but other people who could support the game did.

[royal sapphire]

that the all future content is free

[tawny spire]

the content update is free - a class is not content

[royal sapphire]

then by that logic, bosses arent content also

[brittle fjord]

Promises and contracts are different things.

[royal sapphire]

nor is environment

lets just sell the name as xpac

and u buy everything like Ikea

[night marten]

chat dedication to keeping this conversastion going for so long is impressive. march cannot get here fast enough so you all have something new to talk about

[quick magnet]

What about the thought that things change over time and earlier statements are untenable now? Has that crossed your mind?

[royal sapphire]

Bro march could be in 5 years

its the same

[brittle fjord]

You're all fighting me like I am your enemy. I am in the same boat as you in that I don't personally care. I am simply saying people who DO care are well in their rights to do so.

[night marten]

thats not how calendars work

[royal sapphire]

We have cofounder dev saying it is free content just 4 months ago

and we have kickstarter page saying same

[tawny spire]

boss's and terrian are part of the content you can already play with the class's you currently have correct? Why do you think a beta class should be free, you can participate in the game and all aspects - it isnt like the class has a unique map or a unique entire story line.

[royal sapphire]

Wrong reply to person, my bad

[brittle hollow]

I open this discord every couple of days and every time it’s the same thing. It’s… if there’s one thing making me not want to touch the game again is this instead of every little or big thing that’s wrong with the game. This negativity is beyond control at this point

[royal sapphire]

No, we cannot play stuff that is coming in the xpac yet

[zinc blaze]

whats your opinion on Quantum Inspired Ant Colony Algorithms for Distributed Database optimization?

[brittle fjord]

I mean yeah, this conversation will keep going on until March, and maybe even after.

[tawny spire]

When it comes out - will you be able to use your sentinel to do all the new aspects of the content release?

[quick magnet]

I am under no obligation to pat anyone's head and say "there there" about this topic. You're upset, we get it, your complaints are valid but they're worn out and not doing anything anymore but stinking up the place for everyone else that does not feel any kind of way about this or is otherwise fine with this development.

[royal sapphire]

Why does it matter? its clearly not content by your standards

[brittle fjord]

Not calling a class content is just disingenuous at best.

Content is anything a player interacts with within a game.

[tawny spire]

you are putting words in my mouth I already defined content and not content to you. Can you do the release as a sentinel? Yes or no.

[quick magnet]

Doesn't matter if it's content or not, you buy it or you dont and you'll fxxking deal with that.

[royal sapphire]

You did not. you jsut stated a class is not content, which is laughable

[quick magnet]

Life comes at you fast. Things change, circumstances shift, nothing in life is perfect. You have to accept this and move on.

[royal sapphire]

Who told you that

[brittle fjord]

I just don't understand how people can be so close minded in that anyone who doesn't share the same opinions as they must have invalid opinions and shouldn't express or feel them.

[shut quiver]

Idk...I thought the whole krafton thing would go on for longer than it did

[royal sapphire]

you do not have to accept anythign you dont want

[copper sorrel]

Content usually refers to raids etc. in wow.

[brittle fjord]

If you don't care it's fine, if you do care that is also fine.

[quick magnet]

My 40+ years on this fxxking rock, that's what.

You're not changing the world fumigating a gaming discord, you're just making this space less plesant for everyone else.

[brittle fjord]

In all fairness, EHG losing money did not come fast. It came slowly over years of EHG doing very little to change it.

[tawny spire]

I did open your eyes. Game content is anything within a game that provides experiences, activities, or information for players, encompassing core mechanics (jumping, shooting), assets (graphics, sound, maps), narratives (story, quests), features (items, skills, modes)

They purchased the base game - and get updates to new maps or mechanics for free. A beta class does not fall under the purview.

[royal sapphire]

Good thing I am not fumigating then, but rationaly describing the situation we are in

[quick magnet]

Bold assumption about how much effort they put into righting the ship when we do not know anything about what that entails

You literally cannot tell me they didn't do everything in their power because you're not them. If you were, you'd not even be trying to make that arguement.

[brittle fjord]

Their content drip is slow even now, they aren't monetising MTXs very well. They are just bleeding money as all their staff needs paying and the services they use regardless.

[night marten]

english only please

[zinc blaze]

that is english

[brittle fjord]

All those words are English

[royal sapphire]

Thank you for confirming that the classes are content. WHere did you get the idea that the class is beta? And why would that matter in any case?

[brittle hollow]

Well actually you are not… it is getting extremely frustrating to see the same conversation daily.

[night marten]

no thats super smart english. not the same thing

[quick magnet]

yeah because this shxt overwhelmed them lol I will not deny they made ample mistakes but lets be fair here, they hopped into a very dangerous pool trying to swim

[night marten]

dumb it down engi

[royal sapphire]

They didn't. It took them 2 years to write "give us mtx feedback" annoucement, and they did not sell anyting since 1.0

[tawny spire]

You really cannot fukin read can you? I just said THE CLASS DOES NOT FALL UNDER THE CONTENT PROMISE PURVIEW

[night marten]

alright

and with that, conversation is done

since we cant follow the rules

[turbid silo]

Let's remain calm friends 🙂

[brittle fjord]

They just shifted the definition of "content" to suit them

[quick magnet]

Good luck with that, birdo. This server is a lost cause

[zinc blaze]

ah, whats your opinion on using an ant hill style system where we have agents build many paths from node to node (computer to computer) in order to figure out what path is optimal... and the quantum bit just means we pretend each agent can be in two places at once (dont think about that too hard it just works)

[shut quiver]

[brittle fjord]

At the end of the day Soda, people who are upset are justified in being upset without you calling them "idiots" and whatever else you said about them.

[scenic fog]

prays for everyone in this channel to reach a state of calm and peace

[brittle fjord]

https://tenor.com/view/patrick-zen-meditation-gif-13277341

[scenic fog]

hugs everyone with white magic

[brittle fjord]

Keep that away from me

[zinc blaze]

rip undead homies

er

rip again?

is undead back to dead still just dying

[brittle hollow]

Seriously. While this conversation keeps going on and on, this place becomes unbearable. And I have not left a discord server at any point in time because of the community. I have left for other reasons (probably because the discord server is just not a place I needed/wanted to be) but never because of the community.

[quick magnet]

This would have passed much faster if they'd just priced the whole thing at $20 and told us they need the money.

We don't need more details than that, we're not owed anything. But if they need more help to stay afloat, that's all it takes.

[balmy arrow]

[royal sapphire]

But it could be 50$ even, but it just kicks the bucket down the road.... Unless there is huge course correction and improving the management, this will happen again and again. But the next time, what will be paid? QoL? Whole xpac? Separate skills?
And the funny thing is, there are multiple examples of successful companies within the genre or adjacent genres, which they could have copied approach (whichever one suited their needs)....
They choose PoE style of relying on selling only cosmetics, but for that you have to have consistent release table (reason why GGG went from 3 leagues to 4 leagues a year quite while back was due ppl buying most of mtx at the league start) and at least decent mtx to sell; which at the moment they do not have either

[brittle fjord]

Are you intentionally missing the point on purpose? People are annoyed because a promise was broken, not because they are "owed" something or than they need to pay for an xpac.

[quick magnet]

I don't care about past statements. I care about current circumstance. The conversation ended. Let it be.

[severe socket]

...I've missed yet another drama.

Typical.

[warm plover]

Still people complaining the the 1000 hours they got for 40 bucks isn't enough. Yawn. Either buy the class or dont, but no one cares about your opinion one way or another

[severe socket]

...Nevermind, someone's stirring up another one apparently.

[long lichen]

Become the drama you want to see

[warm plover]

The guy telling the people whining to shut up is not stirring up drama

[tawdry thistle]

Why's this getting shitted on now? I'm massively out of the loop - is it because it's like essentially buying another class?

People buy expansions for other games which does the same surely that's not an issue?

[warm plover]

Yeah its because they said there would be no paid content

But anyone with half a brain would realize that isn't realistic

They are giving the expansion for free, and offering the class as a paid dlc

[tawdry thistle]

lool jesus christ

play 100 hours, buy the char for 100 dollars. paying 1 an hour for entertainment

a pint is 7-8

£

[severe socket]

I swear, the amount of didiels is gonna skyrocket at this rate. 🙂

[warm plover]

Thats what im saying

It makes sense because arpgs attract try hard neckbeards and when they complain about something they make sure they're heard

But in this case its way overblown

[severe socket]

(For context: didiel is the name of a particularly "IQ-endowed (real)" dude who has a magical "script" to block the whole lot of people too vocal for his personal comfort.)

[tawdry thistle]

make the expansion paid and the character free and no one will care

see you in march xoxo

[warm plover]

Adios fellow rational person

[severe socket]

Could you please elaborate on the "try hard neckbeards" part?

With examples preferably?

[warm plover]

People who talk like this

[severe socket]

I'm having quite a hard time trying to read into that statement, let alone relate to it.

[warm plover]

You

[severe socket]

Calling me a "try hard neckbeard" is quite a stretch for someone like you. 🙂

[lusty dock]

the conflict meter is rising again guys...

[severe socket]

I'm not even remotely near what you're throwing around.

[severe socket]

No conflict here, I'm just trying to understand the details 🙂

Since none were provided so far.

[warm plover]

Im not conflicting with anyone

[severe socket]

😏

[warm plover]

Im just annoyed that people are bombing the game with negative reviews over something stupid, and making new players not want to try it

[lusty dock]

The smile of doom

[warm plover]

Every game in existence has paid dlc (not literally but you get the point)

[severe socket]

It's inevitable when you know who the publisher is, you can't help it.

[warm plover]

They are giving the expansion for free

[severe socket]

See, it's nothing wrong for a standalone game or something unique like GW2 to have paid expansions. It only makes sense.

It's kinda different story with live-service games which LE desperately tries to be.

[lusty dock]

People are mainly still mad that they (for now) broke their old 2018 promise

[severe socket]

Take Grim Dawn for instance. Paid expansions which confer extra masteries are normal.

Except those expansions fragment the playerbase. Those with them can't play with those without.

[warm plover]

Oh I just realized

Youre using chatgpt for your responses

That actually makes a lot of sense

[severe socket]

Lol.

[lusty dock]

umm... copium overdose?

[stuck coyote]

Looking for a US-based person to help me with something. I’ll compensate for your time.

[severe socket]

Accusing me of all people of using artificial idiocy.

Where I'm one of the most avid "ai" haters out there.

[warm plover]

Sure

[severe socket]

That's rich alright.

[warm plover]

Whatever you say

[severe socket]

Right back at'cha. 🙂

[warm plover]

Go leave your negative review on steam and feel like you did something

[lusty dock]

the conflict meter is still rising...

[severe socket]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[lusty dock]

Or more like the ego meter

[severe socket]

Told ya. One more didiel coming right up.

Also, imagine for a second to have someone who's actually capable of adhering to simple grammar rules while chatting.

With English being their secondary language.

[warm plover]

Yeah because you edit all your chatgpt copied responses to make them proper

[severe socket]

Totally unbelievable. 🙂

I'm not taking you seriously at this point, mate. 🙂

Move on please. 🙂

[lusty dock]

oh no, ehg is typing

[warm plover]

I keep trying to but you keep talking

[lusty dock]

i dont know what to expect

[severe socket]

I wonder too.

[tawdry thistle]

next one to message loses the argument

[lusty dock]

yay, i lose!

[warm plover]

I love losing arguments

I argue for the fun of it

[severe socket]

Sounds like fun, lol.

What do I know tho.

[warm plover]

It is

Knowing I got you even slightly annoyed brings me immense satisfaction. Its probably a negative personality trait of mine, but thats okay

[honest belfry]

yeah let's not do that anymore

[warm plover]

You got it

[severe socket]

Nah, it hardly counts. Compared to what I'm going through IRL for like 2 months now, that is. But whatever keeps your raft afloat, I guess. 🙂

[lusty dock]

Oof, not sure whats happening, but seems rough

[severe socket]

Btw, I'm still waiting for an elaboration on the "ARPGs attract try hard neckbeards" part. 🙂 But it's fine if it's irrelevant now.

[honest belfry]

No, that conversation is over now

[severe socket]

Hence the last sentence.

[severe socket]

Well, I guess witnessing a person closely related to my spouse almost suffocate to death twice and assisting with their recovery, however bumpy, counts.

Not to mention work from home and parenting on top of that at the same time.

So... yeah.

[lusty dock]

ooh... thats a... lot

[severe socket]

Shameless baseless accusations are hardly a poke compared to that.

[lusty dock]

I truly wish you the best with it all

[severe socket]

Thanks.

As for LE... I still harbor a faint glimmer of hope that they finally figure the damn marksman out.

Can't make a whole mastery such a deliberate clown of itself forever.

[lusty dock]

So thats why i cant find any recent marksman builds, huh

[severe socket]

More or less.

Can't build anything decent when you have two uniques actually completely disabling two mastery-exclusive skills while offering absolutely nothing to compensate.

[lusty dock]

What are the 2 uniques, for reference?

Havent played marksman at all, so my knowledge there is zilch

[severe socket]

Ravager's Dart (Heartseeker) and Jelkhor's Blast Knife (Detonating Arrow).

One converts the skill into throwing damage on autocast, another converts the skill into melee attack.

Both completely eliminate their respective skills from MM's repertoire.

At least far as the mastery's passive is concerned.

[lusty dock]

And there are no other uniques that can support marksman in some way other than those 2?

[severe socket]

So if you're building with either of them in mind, you're sabotaging yourself by deleting a large chunk of damage.

[lusty dock]

Hm, so those items really need some rebalancing i suppose

[severe socket]

There are, but they favor different damage types (like poison or bleed for instance) and don't really lend themselves into deep endgame that well.

[severe socket]

That's putting it lightly.

[lusty dock]

Oh no

seems marksman will wait until S4 maybe i think i hope

[south moat]

Oh I wouldn't count s4 bringing much marksman goods

[severe socket]

Last time I tried playing marksman, it was an insane zip fest. Ignite and all.

The fact that recurve has nothing to do with attack speed does it a massive disservice direct damage wise.

It's a Dancing Strikes sitch all over again, come to think of it.

That particular skill is such a mockery in itself, I can't get over it to this day.

[south moat]

Yeah, recurve not caring about attackspeed makes it feel bad

Haven't tried dancing strikes (or blade dancer in general)

[severe socket]

It's a neverending chain of frustrations. Dancing Strikes as a skill is clunky af in every possible way. Why not make it a proper channeled one like Disintegrate? Oh wait, rogue doesn't have anything relevant to channeled skills anywhere. But why? Flurry can also be channeled! Nope, channeling mucks up a whole 2/3 of the tree if enabled. Oh wait, it also mucks up a lot of other attack-count triggers by timing them out while channeling. Also, wtf are mirages and why are they virtually nonexistent save for 2-3 skills? Wtf are shadows? Where's the elaboration on what a shadow can and cannot do? Wtf are charge-up skill nodes and why do they even exist since standing still in deep endgame is death sentence by default? Why is rogue so pigeonholed into physical? Why are acid flask's throw radius and fire conversion so awful? Why is Decoy so giga useless outside of being a glorified acid flask with that one unique relic? Why does rogue have to use INT-based offhands to convert acid flask into cold? Why is MM forced into throwing/melee with two terribly-thought-out uniques? Why is Ballista's tree so giga scatterbrained that it absolutely requires +10 to the skill to work as envisioned? Why is Falconer as a whole so giga busted compared to the other two? The list of concerns grows evermore. And that's just rogue alone.

I dunno. It's just me, but rogue could've been so much better.

Sorry for that rant. Ranged/bow is my first choice anywhere, the second choice being a healer/support, and it saddens me to no end to see such a state of it in here.

[proper sluice]

I'm with you on this. Just tested a dancing strike build, the best i could get to was 700c. Feels so sloppy, buggy even, and even if you prime everything for dancing strike, shadow cascade is still the main source of damage. Imagine.

[severe socket]

Shadow Cascade might as well be converted into the mastery passive at this point.

[proper sluice]

Marksman feels it just cannot scale damage. At some point you just hit a million arrows for one fart each

So I don't know either, I get the frustration.

[severe socket]

On that note: why are there no ATT- / DEX-based offhands?

Quivers don't count since they can't offer attribute points as implicits and only work with bows.

[brittle fjord]

Does anyone know if Mantle of the Pale Ox's damage directed to minions applied to Ward as well as Life?

[willow sentinel]

99% sure it does since it doesn't specify

[brittle fjord]

That is what I have been going off as well but wasn't sure

Thanks

[acoustic belfry]

if I use a Prophecy to get an Exalted item, I assume it will still have the normal level requirement? so I can't use Prophecies ot gain any OP items at low level

[zinc blaze]

It should

Nemesis can spit out an exalted item for a low level character

*but like the ones done in the low level zones

[acoustic belfry]

I grabbed one that is just "death of champion" with no conditions (the others all required monolith/dungeon/etc) and gives exalted ring

[zinc blaze]

Yeah like the items will drop with their normal level requirement

Nemesis is the only thing that I know of that can let you have like a T7 affix and be usable by like a level 15 character

[static quiver]

I’m an AI and Fullstack Engineer specializing in LLM integration, autonomous agents, workflow automation, multimodal AI (voice & vision), and blockchain systems. I build real production-grade systaems that connect models with APIs, databases, business logic, and on-chain components.
AI / LLM Engineering

• LLM integration with DSPy, LangChain, AutoGen, CrewAI, ReAct
• Advanced RAG pipelines (vector DBs, hybrid search, custom retrievers)
• Autonomous & multi>agent systems for research, automation, and trading
• AI content detection using stylometric analysis + embeddings
• Built Slack → Notion → API → LLM automation system (cut support time by 60%)
• Image/voice intelligence: CLIP tagging, YOLOv8 moderation, Whisper ASR, Tacotron2 TTS
  FullStack & Automation
• Web: Next.js, React, Vue | Backend: Node.js, NestJS, FastAPI, Django
• Mobile: React Native, Expo, Flutter, swift, kotlin
• Cloud/DevOps: AWS, Azure, Docker, Kubernetes, PostgreSQL, MongoDB, Supabase
• Automation: n8n, Zapier, Make.com, custom API workflows
  If you need a dev, feel free react out me. 👍

[brittle hollow]

I hope your systaems are good and proper

[inner finch]

[coarse swallow]

We're not currently looking to fill any AI related roles. For applications, we list all current openings on our hiring page here: https://eleventhhourgames.bamboohr.com/careers

[acoustic belfry]

apparently it's some new scam, dunno if true

[calm jay]

Unrelated but that moment was hard af in Slay the Princess.

[scenic fog]

Does anyone happen to know what is considered a "high corruption" amount?

[stoic frigate]

Depends on who you're talking to really, I'd guess that the community at large puts it in the 1.5-2k range due to the amount of power creep we've had in the past couple patches. Previously I would have said around 1k, in beta we considered hitting 1k to be not just very difficult but also very time consuming, we put "endgame" corruption at 300-500 back then.

[scenic fog]

Yeah... the wild goose chase in monoliths for single digit corruption increases feels almost as bad as New Worlds watermark system..

[stoic frigate]

You can optimize it to get smth like 50 or so per kill (catch up makes other timelines far faster). I still personally think that it being "infinite" is just bad for the game though

[short vessel]

Tbh these days the corruption push isn't that bad

As someone who did go to >1k in beta, it's gotten far far quicker

[low hull]

hii guys its been while i havent played.

why is server dead lol

[thick lotus]

you need 300corruption for normal aberroth, and you need 500 for uber, theres no more natural corruption "breakpoints"
if you can kill uber, usually you can live up to 2000 corruption easely (mostly depends on defence tho)

[south moat]

Isn't it 500 for the uber? not 1000

[vernal nymph]

Yeah it's 500, but the fight itself is much more difficult than 500c echoes

[simple bison]

Most positive scaling slows way down past 1000 corruption so Imo that should be the goal to aim for. Being able to go higher is always nice but 1k is a good initial target to work towards, Obviously you don't have to get there to get good loot or anything, it's just an arbitrary point based on scaling graphs

[vernal nymph]

Corruption rebalance and power creep will do that. I make too much jank and consider 500c+NormAbby good enough as a milestone for the layman

[scenic fog]

Thank you for the information everyone.

I appreciate it.

[simple bison]

Here's legendary potential scaling with corruption for example, what the different lines represent isn't super important but you can get an okay idea of why 1k is "enough" by seeing how the change is really slow past that point, the vertical line is at 1000 corruption

[thick lotus]

sry maybe old memories attacking

[vernal nymph]

Reasonable mistake imo. Uberoth requirements only being 500c is a pretty funny prank on the devs' part

[thick lotus]

i think without 5 shield phases he coooould be considered as 500c boss, but he still bonks too hard
5 non-decaying shields giving him like 500% of extra hp

also idk is it actually possible to rng lasers without cleance, as they overlap and stack debuff too fast
i still didnt got how to make lasers shoot sides i want so i kinda overgeared + rnged him on pala with cleance

[south moat]

<@&1161418687471956101>

[barren mural]

🙂

[woven sentinel]

Maybe you need my bear kartal haha

Eurgh don't wanna go to work

[south moat]

Self promotion isn't allowed in general
you could post it in video-shoutout instead

[balmy arrow]

[barren mural]

i need not bear maybe beer:)))

[tulip niche]

Single digit? You’re doing it wrong my friend

[tulip niche]

<@&1161418687471956101>

Not 100% sure but better to be safe I assume

[maiden sky]

@simple bison Just in case you haven’t you can loot filter set sound and a map icon to help make sure you don’t miss your resonances! 😊

[simple bison]

Yeah now you can :P. Wasn't always the case, and I still think it's an unnecessary step

[maiden sky]

I am noob. Agreed and agreed. 👍

[barren mural]

we are nuub np:)

[primal abyss]

Hello frieends~ I hope the day has been treating you all well

[barren mural]

It’s going great, thank you. How are you, are you doing well

[primal abyss]

Great to hear! I'm doin juust peachy. 🙂

[barren mural]

🙂

what is ur job in this company?

[stoic frigate]

Vandryll is a community manager iirc, he's kind of like a spokesperson for both player wants/desires and company inner workings and plans. A two-way messenger, of sorts.

(Also hi, Van, it's cold, please turn the sun up)

[primal abyss]

Howdy there Deias!

That is I~

I wish... it's been a little chilly here too. Great winter holiday weather though

[barren mural]

ahh niceee

[stoic frigate]

It is 13°F out today, and the heat is not doing much for the kitchen part of the house right now so my feet are very angry :/

[primal abyss]

Got any socks or house slippers?

Keep them puppies warm 😆

[stoic frigate]

Oh I always have socks on, can't stand feeling floors on bare feet, but slippers are, uh... somewhere. I move between rooms a lot, so I'm not certain where they've been left

[primal abyss]

I have slippers but find myself very bad at keeping them on

In a similar fashion because I ruin socks when its cold

[little lagoon]

I will take any excuse to wear my boots inside

The colder the better

[stuck coyote]

Looking for a US-based person to help me with something. I’ll compensate for your time.

[stoic frigate]

I gotta find replacement boots, you commandeered them lmao

[little lagoon]

Was the challenge to be as vague as possible in your rule breaking while still breaking the rules

[primal abyss]

You looking for help in-game or with an issue?

[barren mural]

help me for keystones:) need 5k+ please add my inventory pls...

hehehe

[primal abyss]

https://tenor.com/view/kermit-the-frog-keyboard-warrior-typing-busy-at-work-gif-12032443

[barren mural]

hahahahaha

[primal abyss]

That's me on the case...if I could

Sorry

[barren mural]

just write please 5000 thats it:)

[frank bramble]

I would wire you my keystones Kartal but alas, brave adventurer

[barren mural]

hahahha

[maiden sky]

Hey I might have time for some in a little while Kartal. I still have all those we can run just haven’t found the time.

[barren mural]

i am here when u want mate

[barren mural]

need 75k corrp ehh no keystones........

[barren mural]

just add me 5k keystone hehehe

k k im big nuub

[frank bramble]

Kartal it's like Turkish ice cream, they can give them to you but flip flop and it's gone before you even react

[barren mural]

nononon :)))

[maiden sky]

Never mind the solo stuff get him to make EE tradeable!!!! 🤤

[frank bramble]

EE tradeable? Blasphemy!

Kartal will just become a bad messenger that'll get the stab eventually

That London vest will be necessary my man

[maiden sky]

Do t worry guys I make sure to check EE int the MG everyday hoping for a miracle!!!

[barren mural]

ehhhh..

[maiden sky]

I mean there is a place for right right??? 😃

[frank bramble]

It's Christmas after all right?... Right?

[maiden sky]

Exactly!!

[primal abyss]

I can confirm, we will not have the power to do such a thing so be sure to ask Santa for a nice drop or something instead 😆

[barren mural]

🙂

[steep river]

What about Stygian Coal in the stockings of naughty travelers?

[frank bramble]

Oh no, just give me a wrong ladle at this point

[primal abyss]

What would the travelers not naughty get, then? 🤔

[frank bramble]

Soulmass in a stocking, sounds tempting right?

[south moat]

Even more Stygian Coal

[primal abyss]

Well played, then

[steep river]

I was looking and I didn't see a cane item to stand in for candy cane. But there's probably something that we could stretch thematically to fit

[frank bramble]

Mad ladle resembles of one

[turbid silo]

Good day all

[south moat]

So does the normal ladle

[honest belfry]

(he shouted and slammed the door)

[frank bramble]

Yellow

[south moat]

Hey Derrick & wick
How are we doing today?

[primal abyss]

Derrick and Wick~ Welcome!

[turbid silo]

I'm doing alright, thanks for asking 🙂

How are you?

[honest belfry]

Hello!

[frank bramble]

The chat became really yellow damn

[willow sentinel]

It is a good day indeed
Got my result and I graduated !!

[south moat]

Tired
Spent the day outside doing physical work
Feels like I could go & sleep already

Gratz vlad!

[primal abyss]

Congratulations!!!!!!!!!!

That's super awesome.

[barren mural]

🙂

EHG chat:)

we need also boss of Krafton here:))

[frank bramble]

We need everyone here

Big gang

[main frigate]

I just charged myself up on the opposite. Sleep well!

[honest belfry]

Congrats! That's amazing!

[south moat]

I'm not going to sleep yet
It's way too early for it
I just feel like I could

[main frigate]

well, nap is a type of sleep too

[barren mural]

Why aren’t you supporting me in the game, respected devs

🙂

[primal abyss]

That's right nub. There are games to play

[south moat]

Well it's 5pm
so no naps at this hour

[south moat]

Got to cook first

[barren mural]

im online 24/7 and all records on me in this game .. no supporting me ehh...:(

🙂

[main frigate]

? 16-17:00 always is the most tiring time for me after worked/gaming for 3-4h

so it's a good time to take a nap

[barren mural]

we want see here Boss of Krafton:))

[south moat]

Well, there's a lot of things you an want but you're not going to get that

[barren mural]

is this was just joke:)

maybe judge can come 🙂

[south moat]

No jokes around here, it's serious business

All day every day

[brittle hollow]

25/8, 372

[barren mural]

we are playing just a game..

[night marten]

not going to take the low hanging fruit there

[glass pendant]

Congrats man, hope all goes just as smooth looking forward

[turbid silo]

Wooo! Graduate! Very nice!

[turbid silo]

Ah yes, the weather here makes me just want to sleep all the time it's so chilly

[maiden sky]

HEY Mun if you check this my bad was in the MG hahaha

[barren mural]

🙂

[south moat]

Yeah, was about 4C
At least it wasn't windy

[main frigate]

sometimes we must learn speak to ourselves

[barren mural]

my english is not good. i dont understand..

[calm jay]

Congratulations!!

[turbid silo]

Oh that's chilly

[inner finch]

Does that mean you can now account?

[willow sentinel]

As soon as I find a job, yes

[calm jay]

Mmm, accounting.

[severe socket]

Hiya Derrick.

How's your day?

[main frigate]

My thinking is no one will willing to chat with me if zero value I have. So go to dig your value based on which topics are they interested

[turbid silo]

My day is good so far!

Preparing to travel for the holidays tomorrow

[vernal nymph]

my brother sent me a screenshot of his daily forecast showing -20F last week. It's bad enough when it gets to single digits around me. I wouldn't be able to take going into the negatives that far

[calm jay]

At some point you just bundle up and kinda hope

[honest belfry]

Now I'm picturing a glyph LE blanket "the bundle of hope"

[main frigate]

Take with my soul please

[calm jay]

+50% Fire Warmth.

Part of a set with hearth and home

[honest belfry]

Mourningfrost slippers... just sayin'

[south moat]

Just what I needed
Cold feet right when I get out of bed

[honest belfry]

Snowdrift then

[south moat]

I was thinking more like Fiery Dragon slippers

[severe socket]

Can I ask you a question related to LE? Assuming you're not too busy, that is.

[balmy arrow]

[turbid silo]

Of course!

We're excited to hear what the community has to say about [future events](#news message).

[barren mural]

giime ur power:)

[severe socket]

#💬┃general message - Would love to hear your thoughts on this.

Sorry if that's too much.

[brittle hollow]

Something I’d like to say from a glance at this. Your first question is relatively loaded…

it would be nice to explain what you mean by in-game events or some kind of teaser to show what you guys are already thinking.

I do like the survey and I will answer as soon as I can

[turbid silo]

Wow those are a lot of questions. Any chance you could summarize them in a bulleted list?

[severe socket]

That was just a train of thought, but I'll try. 🙂

[turbid silo]

Haha alright

What's the overarching question

[severe socket]

Are there any improvements to rogue in general and MM in particular QoL-wise to expect in the coming season?

[tropic axle]

• Rogue design feels like a never-ending chain of frustrations.

• Dancing Strikes is extremely clunky; should be a proper channeled skill (like Disintegrate).

• Rogue lacks meaningful channeling support, and enabling channeling breaks:

  • ~2/3 of the skill tree
  • Many attack-count triggers due to timing issues.

• Flurry could logically be channeled, but isn’t for the same broken-mechanic reasons.

• Mirages are poorly defined and barely supported (only 2–3 skills).

• Shadows lack clear explanation of their mechanics and limitations.

• Charge-up skill nodes feel pointless since standing still in endgame is effectively lethal.

• Rogue is overly pigeonholed into physical damage.

• Acid Flask issues:

  • Awful throw radius
  • Poor fire conversion
  • Requires INT-based offhands just to convert to cold.

• Decoy is nearly useless outside one niche interaction with a specific unique relic.

• Marksman is forced into awkward throwing/melee hybrids via two poorly designed uniques.

• Ballista skill tree is unfocused and effectively requires +10 skill levels to function as intended.

• Falconer is massively overpowered compared to the other Rogue masteries.

• These problems represent only the Rogue class alone, with the concern list still growing.

[severe socket]

...thanks for summing it up 😅
Those are just off the top of my head, btw. There's a LOT more than that, but yeah. That's the general idea.

[night marten]

smooth

GIVE US ALL THE MERCH OR LET US BUY ALL THE MERCH

[turbid silo]

This is great feedback! I'm going to pass this along to the team right now.

[stuck coyote]

Looking for a US-based person to help me with something. I’ll compensate for your time.

[rancid pulsar]

here's my feedback: I'm more likely to fill out a survey if I don't have to log in to a forum for it 😆 I'll do this one in a bit though

[dusk dragon]

I just wanna buy that LE hot sauce

[severe socket]

To add to this: it would be very beneficial if the game had pop-up links for surveys, or even an in-game UI for that purpose.

[turbid silo]

Yeah I've heard this before, but our forums makes most sense for these. It's not terrible to login, just with your Steam account that owns LE 🙂

[severe socket]

Because those who actually play the game don't usually frequent its forums or other related social media (not at the same time at least).

[lean berry]

I think it's important try to meet the playerbase where they are and without barriers whenever possible. It's great to conduct survveys, but I think if you want meaningful feedback from all of the playerbase (and not just the ones willing to log in) then you're able to make more informed decisions based on that survey.

[severe socket]

Agreed on the meet the playerbase part. The wider the reach, the better. Still, the entry point should also be the game itself.

As in whenever the dev team wants player feedback, the game itself should tell the players as well.

Think Wuthering Waves or similar games, for instance. They send out survey links/forms via in-game mail.

[lean berry]

I truly do appreciate the effort you guys put into your outreach and willingness to hear player feedback. I just wanted to say I hope you guys will consider a small shift in player engagement and be willing to explore the idea of meeting the playerbase where they are rather than having the playerbase come meet you because IMO it's crucial that you gather feedback even from the players who can't be bothered to create an account or log in.

[lean berry]

Yeah, just plaster it everywhere and make it as easy as possible for even the detractors to be able to put effort into formulating a response.

[brittle hollow]

Should also be easy to do it since you now have the in game announcement system… I did post my feedback regarding this survey earlier as well. It’s too open ended and nothing hints at what they have in mind either.

[lean berry]

The problem with a login/forum gated survey is that there are just too many biases at play which muddy the feedback loop. Survivorship bias, self-selection bias, non-response bias. All of which compound to create a feedback loop that is wholly inaccurate to the actual state of the game.

A critical part of surveying is the whole concept of sampling.

[inner finch]

So, Gregory plushies?

[quartz moat]

does anyone remember how much the amber drops were nerfed when season 3 started?

[willow sentinel]

Is it in the patch note ?

This is the only mention of Ambers I could find in the patch notes for 1.3

They got buffed by 10%

[vernal nymph]

they weren't nerfed so much as you don't see tombs nearly as often since they conflict with rift beast caves

[quartz moat]

hmm...someone said the drop rate was nerfed for season 3 because it was the previous season

wait, so rift beast cant spawn in the same map as a tomb?

[vernal nymph]

a rift beast cave can't, so if you have your rift beast at the point that your next encounter is in the cave and you never go in

you'll never get another tomb with your beast

[quartz moat]

in the previous season i had enough amber to reroll class idols + buy echoes like it was no big deal, now i can barely afford to use my ambers

[vernal nymph]

it'll choose one or the other

I think it ended up being more efficient to farm bones than amber, and just buy amber bags from the NPC

[willow sentinel]

Someone with a source ?

Because I can say a lot of things, that doesnt make them true

[vernal nymph]

I once heard that Vlad threw a whole mountain because he was annoyed it blocked his view from the top tower of his castle

[willow sentinel]

I just went through the patch notes, and the only time I could see amber mentionned is for a buff

[quartz moat]

If memory serves correctly I believe they did. It was mentioned in the dev stream on Fridays. Someone asked the same question and he said they did nerf it a bit since it’s season 3 now and no longer the theme. this is what they said

[vernal nymph]

memory doesn't seem to have served correctly, because that's definitely something that would be in the patch notes

[honest belfry]

I can confidently say it would not have been nerfed just because it wasn't part of the seasonal theme.
That's like saying "we nerfed Primalist because Rogue is newer"

[quartz moat]

thanks for the clarification

[stuck coyote]

Looking for a US-based person to help me with something. I’ll compensate for your time.

[copper sorrel]

Sounds sus

[tardy bison]

he's gonna ask you to marry him.

[night marten]

this is not the place for this. this is a server for Last Epoch.

[willow sentinel]

I once said Upheaval and Tornado (Spell version) were good

Too bad it doesnt make it true

[vernal nymph]

Why do you gotta do that to me

Hey there's still 3 months before the season. Maybe the dream can happen

[willow sentinel]

💀

You know what I also said : shiit that's must be good now!
Sacrificial Embrace

[rose egret]

wanna play @honest hearth

[dull topaz]

Upheaval (for totems) was great before they nerfed it and made totem builds way weaker haha but I guess you mean actual upheaval which is a shame cos it's a cool skill 😄

[ionic vale]

i think march season 4 is diabolical

i wont complain

cause itll have alot of content

[rose egret]

can you change my diaper again @honest hearth

[honest hearth]

Idk this person they keep following me

[kind vale]

So is online down atm?

[stone leaf]

Idk, I cant seem to login

[forest night]

oh good it's not just me

[grim spindle]

me neither

[scenic plinth]

same, it just keeps loading for me

[stoic frigate]

Tuesdays always have some issues, Steam maintenance

[muted cape]

Yeah steam issue

[willow sentinel]

It wasn't "good" imo, at least not in a healthy way.
Giving smth an infinite more dmg that carry a whole archetype is like walking with a crutch. It's okay for a bit, but at some point you have to get rid of it and walk by yourself.

But yes, I was talking about Melee Upheaval.

Spell Upheaval used to be decent. The Shatter Totem node is really fun. I made a build around it last patch and it was one of my favourite. Sadly it caught a stray bullet with the nerf/change to summon Totem idols. And it's now unplayable.

[balmy arrow]

[main frigate]

is it healthy to eat many fried beans (with fried pork floss) with a box of vegetable juice (include 21 types of vegetable and lemon juice)?
Like...Eat fried chicken with nfc apple juice.

[south moat]

Really depends
Generally fried things aren't that good and it depends on what they were fried in

[plush helm]

hi how do you farm efficiently evolution end ? exept running regular echo with weaver tree adapted ?

[south moat]

Other than that I guess you just hope you get the beast rift instead of the other one

[elder wedge]

What builds did turn out the best this patch?

[south moat]

yes hello

[obtuse bay]

hello hello 👋

[barren mural]

36.595 corruption done ehh what a hard game..

[elder wedge]

what build?

[barren mural]

ballista

[elder wedge]

the zhp one?

[barren mural]

this my own build but yea zhp

[elder wedge]

nice, wish we had a corruption ladder

[barren mural]

i waiting on next season maybe

[elder wedge]

at what corruption does the lootdrops stop increase?

[primal abyss]

Hello hellooo~