💬┃general

[arctic cairn]

Chill out man, I have played 14 character total since release, what the hell u talking 🤣

[obtuse bay]

I like to know it, dont get me wrong but they won't tell even asking lol

[arctic cairn]

So u can’t speculate anything, so strange

[exotic solar]

You can. Them coming up saying 2 seasons a year and a xpac would be awsome.

[arctic cairn]

I’ll speculate same things what I speculated earlier, when nobody understands what speculate means, then sry to hear 😄👍

[exotic solar]

Or very small updates every month and a xpac every year would be great too

[arctic cairn]

I agree with this smalle updates often will keep more into gameplay

[exotic solar]

It would help player retention with occosional economy reset.

Imagine we get update on nemessis tower this month. After killing final boss you can keep climing fighting harder fights for more juiced rewards.

[arctic cairn]

https://tenor.com/view/copium-gif-766857345458198993

[exotic solar]

Next month they rewamp woven echoes. Now there is more to try etc.

[arctic cairn]

Nemesis tower juice sounds good

[exotic solar]

Doesnt matter what they do or how they do. They need to do it on a timeframe thats shared with community.

Anyone checking poe subreddits knows how this effects people. Whole reddit is getting themselves hyped by themselves. No external info or push needed. Because they know something is coming.

[arctic cairn]

Poe 2 new update soon out

Poe1 I’m done this season all uber posses killed

[exotic solar]

You know that cause it is on schedule.

That geniouses stamped themselves on peoples inner clock lmao.

[arctic cairn]

Kinda good long seasons on LE

[shut quiver]

Between PoE games and this, Im guessing u exclusively play arpgs alone

[arctic cairn]

I’m like it is what it is, it’s coming when coming, got plenty of games what to play meanwhile updates coming every game

[exotic solar]

No, factorio and rimworld are my main games. I use arpgs as breaks.

[shut quiver]

Oh sorry I meant @arctic cairn xD

[exotic solar]

Oh sorry then.

[arctic cairn]

Lmfo

I play d4 full group most off time

Poe1 solo yes,

Poe2 group with guild is when boored

[shut quiver]

How do u manage to take break for other games when playing factorio man! That game pulls me in for hours on end

[arctic cairn]

LE solo when nobody need help

I ain’t play factorio 😅

[exotic solar]

I mean i dont take daily breaks. After finishing a run i generally dont touch the game for next 2 months or so.

It is like, lets start a new run since poe league is 2 months away at minimum.

I was planing on a LE but it seems like poe2 taking its place.

Such a shame.

[arctic cairn]

Yehh Poe 2 it is some days more, next year LE again

Don’t forgot make some sailing lvls in osrs 😉

[shut quiver]

I'll make my new year's resolution this time around to clear backlogs and just play other games in general

[exotic solar]

There is this new genre that i learned of recently. Survivors like mixed with arpg like progression and loot.

[shut quiver]

Oh?

[exotic solar]

Not many of them and most of them are on early acces

But i can recommend hell clock.

It was on sale recently

Great value

If you are into offline d2 experience i think you would love it.

[shut quiver]

Sounds fun! I'll check it out

Ty

[exotic solar]

Also there is tower of babel. Basicly d4 but Survivors like.

Early access with not much content but promising

[arctic cairn]

Civilization 7 feels kinda to go, previous parts was decent

[exotic solar]

No experience on Civ series.

[gritty helm]

I've liked 6, but I'm not touching 7. Humankind mechanic is not my cup of tea.

But with Olden Era being good I will have my strategy game fix

[shut quiver]

Personally, still prefer civ 5 over everything else

[arctic cairn]

https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/1p3bht8/data_visualization_does_endgame_depth_actually/

[calm zodiac]

i'll say its kind of amusing that every new civ that comes out people be "i like the previous, never touching this new one" xD

[gritty helm]

5 was good too, I like 6 slightly more thanks to sprawling cities and a little bit more advanced economy

[calm zodiac]

but yeah, overall civ games are kinda terrible at release, but i feel like thats most of them

[exotic solar]

Any takes on Endless legend 2

Liked first game but no idea about second one.

[gritty helm]

I was too dumb to get into first one, so I'm skipping the second one lol

[arctic cairn]

Civ 6 was catastrophic to on release, maybe Yehh wait for civ 7

[shut quiver]

Oh no I 100% Civ 6(most of them cheesed anyway) but I still prefer Civ 5

[gritty helm]

Civ 6 had a flawless relase compared to 7 🫠

[arctic cairn]

Idk 🤷

[calm zodiac]

these days age of wonders is more interesting for me

need a little magic in my life

civ is cool and all but real stuff became stale if that make sense

[gritty helm]

Age of Wonders is great, the only downside is mountain of DLCs

[shut quiver]

^^ that

[gritty helm]

Me with total wars 😔

[shut quiver]

Im kinda over the whole "buy base game + 41 dlcs that come along" design

[calm zodiac]

Honestly i think its stupid that the base game is even available for sales

IMO when games have this bunch of dlcs devs should just remove base game and sell some sort of complete edition

[gritty helm]

Well you can buy the entire collection on steam. With total warhammer however uhmm

[calm zodiac]

Yes but i mean, not buying the entire collection shouldnt be an option

Take for example grim dawn

The dlcs are just great and its sad lots of ppl will just never play them

[gritty helm]

Ah true

Warhammer Total War is a bit of a special case tbf

Especially now that you get Immortal Empires for free

[calm zodiac]

Also having 30 different versions of a game only confuses people

and turn them away from the game

And on that note

i feel like thats one of the reasons paradox is going down

people look at the page for any of their games and ask wtf they seeing them quit and never buy

[exotic solar]

Buckle up kiddo, we are heading to that with LE.

[gritty helm]

You know it's bad when Paradox sells a sub for access to all their expansions

[exotic solar]

Meant to answer this one

[calm zodiac]

To be fair, they already announced they are removing the base version of the game

So you can only buy with the DLC in the future

wich is what i'm proposing

[shut quiver]

Paradox was OG when it came to dlc scenes but they used to do it in a proper sense. Release a dlc to prolong the life span of the game

[gritty helm]

I mean it works.

[shut quiver]

But of lately they were just releasing dlc as if they had a deadline to meet xD

[gritty helm]

Same with Total Warhammer

[calm zodiac]

The issue isn't having a lot of DLC, having a lot of DLC is fine

The issue is looking at a steam page and seeing 30 different options to buy the game

instead of a single one with all the content in it

even if more expensive

[gritty helm]

idk what kind of lunatic would buy all the Stellaris DLC from the get go tbh

something like 2k$ entry price is a bit much

[calm zodiac]

Also

Now that i noticed

we should go to #📚┃off-topic

before a mod come and bonk us lol

[exotic solar]

My fear is LE becoming something like that like 2 years from now on. 2-3 expansion, 2-3 classes as DLC. A new player looking at store page with 80-90$ entry fee while poe sits there as f2p and buy stashes if you like.

Dont worry i will always find a way to make it about LE.

[calm zodiac]

I mean they can obviously keep lowering the entry price overtime

Just because POE is f2p doesnt mean no other ARPG can be pay to play

[sterile oracle]

If it sucks it sucks if its good its good

[arctic cairn]

Cosmetics are kinda boorings tho on shop

[calm zodiac]

In the end thats all that matters

People keep discussing the DLC price and shit, but like realistically what should be discussed is the quality

If the quality is good people will show up

as simple as that

[sterile oracle]

Yea

[exotic solar]

Definetly but LE would be worse parts of GD and poe combined

[calm zodiac]

I don't think so

Like, i got the game at a sale, played over 300h of it

[sterile oracle]

Doom chads and engagement farmers are eating good

[calm zodiac]

I more them got my moneys worth lol

[sterile oracle]

That's for sure

[exotic solar]

Yeah i totally agree and EHG track record shows there is no quality.

[gritty helm]

Cosmetics Quality is probably the biggest problem. I wouldn't mind something like battle pass in LE

[calm zodiac]

I'll not agree on that, season 2 was genuinely great.

[sterile oracle]

Yea exactly if LE just shut down tomorrow I would just be like well I got my multiple 100 hours worth

[exotic solar]

Took a year them to deliver on that.

[gritty helm]

But at least IMO they've improved those a bit. With season 2 I grabbed some

[calm zodiac]

I don't care much how long content take to arrive

I'd take a season 2 once a year over a season 3 every 2 months

[gritty helm]

I mean, we customers don't really care.
But game finances do.

[arctic cairn]

majority of players anyway play only 3-4weeks then going another game

[calm zodiac]

I mean sure, but i can't do nothing about their finances xD

Yeah, i mean thats how ARPG works

I played this POE1 league for about 3 weeks

Now i'm moving on to other things

them i'll play poe2 league

[exotic solar]

Definetly but they need to deliver on schedule. Something like every 6 months or whatever.

[calm zodiac]

them LE league if it comes in jan

[gritty helm]

January-February would be fine-ish IMO

[sterile oracle]

They wasted the entire surge of players and sold the game to a Korean company that kills under performing games after extraction of whales

[gritty helm]

I just hope PoE2 won't snipe the date again

[sterile oracle]

Its dire

[gritty helm]

Season 3 relased like within a week of season 3 of PoE2 iirc ?

[sterile oracle]

But meh I got my money's worth

Maybe they can turn it around

[calm zodiac]

I do hope they turn it around, we already got so few ARPGs

[gritty helm]

I think if LE fails we will enter PoE monopoly

[calm zodiac]

I'm not gonna lie, i had a little hope for that game made by the team that made wolcen, despite how poorly it was taken

[sterile oracle]

Anything that isnt mobile sloppa, freind sloppa is in short supply atm

[calm zodiac]

Them i played it and it was the worse thing ive ever played in my life

[exotic solar]

GD2 is coming in 2-3 years

[arctic cairn]

O way u played wolcen tho

It was good game

[exotic solar]

Please dont

[calm zodiac]

It wasn't very good

[gritty helm]

oh, I forgot about that announcement

[arctic cairn]

I like it

[inner finch]

Wolcen was a game

[sterile oracle]

Arpgs are pretty niche games

[calm zodiac]

but welp, better them diablo 4 if thats worth anything

Sorry, 4, not 2, don't murder me.

[calm zodiac]

Surelly it was a game ever made.

[sterile oracle]

In terms of success, nothing comes close to diablo immortal

[exotic solar]

No announcment. GD developer had interview with Chris Wilson. He told they started to think about it.

[calm zodiac]

TBH, krafton can do a last epoch mobile, fill it with p2w

Won't be an issue to me.

[sterile oracle]

Yea

[gritty helm]

mother of mandela effect then

[sterile oracle]

Lasterst epoch

[calm zodiac]

I think the looter genre as a whole must be cursed or something

Like, be it isometric ARPG lotters or looter shooters

i feel like they all end up going to shit sooner or later

[sterile oracle]

All games do, unless its world of warcraft

[exotic solar]

That dev was founder of their studio so not much of a speculation.

[sterile oracle]

Or runescape

[calm zodiac]

But i mean in this genre in special

[gritty helm]

I mean it's live service genre dominated by the single game that bloated over the decade of content

[calm zodiac]

Seen to go to shit more often

[gritty helm]

That's like making mmorpg

[calm zodiac]

Only warframe and POE1 survived the test of time i feel

[exotic solar]

New warframe update coming

[gritty helm]

well, they've pretty much were the pioneers of live service model in those genres

[sterile oracle]

You notice that mirrors runescape and WoW right

[exotic solar]

Same time around poe2 season

[calm zodiac]

Fair enough

[calm zodiac]

I need to check up, but havent had the time, i stopped after excal umbra so thats a few years

[sterile oracle]

Poe2 is so broken all the best builds are a full circle around the passive trees picking up jewel slots

Im not joking

[calm zodiac]

Its entirelly a beta, so i'd not count it

POE1 was also even more broken at release

[exotic solar]

Many many many qol and cool stuff since then. Definetly go check it out.

[arctic cairn]

Po1 same shit

[exotic solar]

Played on release, gonna give it another go after a year and deciede if its worth or wait another year

[sterile oracle]

Nah not even close, sure you get 2-4 cluster jewels but the passive are way more impactful

[exotic solar]

If you go for atziri jewel which designed to make that possiable.

[sterile oracle]

In poe2 its so much more egregious

[gritty helm]

I think it's because atm PoE2 is less complex than 1, but on the other hand it's less complex

[sterile oracle]

Yea exactly

Poe2 tapers off hard in maps

Last epoch too

It needed delve, more pinnacle bosses

[calm zodiac]

As someone who hated poe2 at release, right now its much much much better.

[gritty helm]

Which is fine if you take it as foundation and build up on this. Which both games are doing.

[sterile oracle]

Also i could do timelines at level 24 or something in last epoch

[calm zodiac]

Yeah, i do skip campaign entirelly at lvl 25 everytime

level up to 70 or something on the mono

them go back and rush the campaign

[arctic cairn]

I have 12 jewels and 2 clusters 😅 feel good 17k Es 95% fire resi 99m dps

[sterile oracle]

Same lol

[calm zodiac]

But i'll say, LE really need a true campaign skip

[sterile oracle]

I did 12 Spectre with 8 forged frost bearer and 4 buff minions

[calm zodiac]

The campaign is just too long

[sterile oracle]

And I just rolled everything

I did my 40 challenges and got out

In 3 weeks

[gritty helm]

I wonder how much would campaign improve with added sprint button

[arctic cairn]

I did fnish this Saturday and I’m out

[calm zodiac]

I feel like not much lol

[sterile oracle]

I ended with about 8 mirrors

[calm zodiac]

i've already completed this campaign like 20 times now

on POE its less bad cause i can do it in 6-8h

but here not really lol

[sterile oracle]

My fastest poe clear was 4 hours 33 mins

[arctic cairn]

My build was alrdy ish 12 mirrors, was lucky on crafts

[sterile oracle]

Nicee

[arctic cairn]

I’m slow as snail on campings

[sterile oracle]

Settlers was so stupidly op

Why yes I would enjoy multi divine tattoo

[arctic cairn]

That’s way I would defo buy every game camp skip even 40euros idc

[sterile oracle]

I did a budget build first weekend then swapped to a real build

Ignite arc was fun gimmick

[arctic cairn]

I was first totem later kinetic blast

[sterile oracle]

It felt so good for the league

Just watch the red line turn into not red line

8 frostbearers with awakened volley

Was majestic

Felt like vampire survivors

As for last epoch the stupid bear build

Made me real happy

[arctic cairn]

My first build in LE in s1 was thorn totem

First week I was in arena top 50

I was so hyped

[sterile oracle]

https://poe.ninja/poe1/builds/keepers/character/duarnqja-4688/불건전캐릭터명_팔백팔십오?i=19&search=class%3D!Elementalist%2C!Champion%2CAscendant%26sort%3Ddps

25 million dps rf build

Oh 34 million since its done

[arctic cairn]

https://poe.ninja/poe1/builds/keepers/character/tzvipsadsa123-1512/Vincy_?i=0&search=items%3DFoulborn%2BHand%2Bof%2BThought%2Band%2BMotion%26skills%3DLightning%2BStrike%2Bof%2BArcing%26sort%3Ddps&timemachine=week-3

My buddy is cooking this atm gives all my currency to him

[candid onyx]

Lol reviews on steam went from very positive to full on red negative

Guess thats what you get for selling 100% to Krafton and them now wanting their money back and introducing P2W classes.

[quick wraith]

That's what happens when it changes from what they said on release

[primal abyss]

Morning Travelers~

[turbid silo]

Good day all

[primal abyss]

DERRICK TWINSIES

[turbid silo]

Haha

[primal abyss]

I hope people that partook in the Thanksgiving, had a good one.

[south moat]

Gm Van & derrick

[primal abyss]

Hi nub!

[south moat]

Hope you had a good turkey day

[main frigate]

Spending a bean night

[primal abyss]

I did have a nice turkey day. Was able to make some memories

Bean night? What's that? 👀

[heady grail]

we have date for next season ?

[primal abyss]

no date for season 4 just yet. Check out #news for such info in the future. However, can say that the next season will drop early 2026

[void ermine]

I hope you guys are cooking something big ❤️

[south moat]

I totally know the date for season 4
I can't reveal it though

( I don't actually know it, pls don't ask)

[main frigate]

#📚┃off-topic message

[obtuse bay]

hello

[primal abyss]

Heyas Vulji!

[gritty helm]

hello there

[inner finch]

[primal abyss]

dj! 👋

[feral rose]

So the game is cooked ? I was taking a break for some months just to see an empty roadmap , company sold to an ai company , and paid classes ?? What the hell happened ..

[void ermine]

is that ragebait ^^

[feral rose]

No Im legit asking , is that real what am I seeing

[void ermine]

theres news posts about this where they explain everything

[feral rose]

Where are those posts , I just saw the 90% negative comments on their forum

[void ermine]

They said there will be season 4+5 and a big expansion with a paid dlc class afterwards, with the next season coming early 2026

[proud steppe]

it is said David lost vs Goliath

[void ermine]

but the roadmap was scrapped, so we dont know whats coming. i guess theyll share more when we get closer to s4 drop

[void ermine]

#news

[feral rose]

So the paid dlc and class is true

[void ermine]

Yes there is still a heated debate ongoing, some people feel "betrayed", because EHG said they will never charge for game content after the initial purchase

[void ermine]

expansion is free, class is paid

[feral rose]

Exactly

[void ermine]

well...if we wanna be technical...EHG never broke their promise. LE belongs to Krafton now, and they never promised anything

[proud steppe]

without money you make nothing, all work neeed retribution it is simple as always lol, thereis absolutely no games who can survive without paid content and LE is not the first and will never be the last,

[feral rose]

That's just sad

[tall jetty]

there is a big difference between paid content and paid gameplay

[feral rose]

Le has paid content what do you even mean I bought almost all supporter packs

[void ermine]

but to be serious....They announced months back that LE was never profitable, since not enough people bought their supporter packs and MTX. so the option was either close studio or sell and change monetization.
I understand the frustration, but id rather have paid DLC than EHG closing. You cant expect ongoing content and support with a one time payment

[proud steppe]

@tall jetty paid gameplay lol the game atm has enough broken class

[ruby python]

don't listen to the i9 CPU!

[void ermine]

yeah YOU. but not enough people

[tall jetty]

The cosmetics and game price should have been enough for monetization, PoE 1 managed fine for years with just cosmetics

[feral rose]

The paid class will be 100 times more broken , we all know how paid classes work

[feral rose]

So does poe2

It makes no sense

[void ermine]

PoE1 has better MTX, way more content, way faster release schedule and a way more hardcore audience with whales supporting the game by a mile. there is no reason or possibility for a whale OR hardcore audience to exist in LE

you compare apples to oranges

[tall jetty]

you do know the game didn't start out as a huge hit right?

[feral rose]

Did you even play poe1 on release ? It had less content than le atn

[void ermine]

i myself put 11k€ into PoE1. i could not spend that much into LE if i wanted

[tall jetty]

it was a small game once, just like LE now

[ruby python]

💀

[gritty helm]

size of the community is the difference sadly

[void ermine]

hardcore audience and whales. PoE1 had 10k supporter packs

[tall jetty]

This is just giga cope. Nothing more than EHG taking a bad buyout deal and getting forced into abandoning their original plans

[feral rose]

So why won't they invest in making more skins ? And supporter packs

[void ermine]

LE has yearly updates, wheres PoE1 had quarterly. you wont keep a paying audience with this much time between updates

[void ermine]

because noone will buy them

its not hard to understand

different audience

[tall jetty]

How is it a different audience lol, ARPG all the same

[feral rose]

It's also not hard to understand they lied to the community and cooked the game

[void ermine]

ok bro

you just baiting

[void ermine]

so you WERE ragebaiting and came in here with an opinion. you didnt just ask a question. hmk.

you guys need to chill

[feral rose]

No I wasn't I just saw the news

[void ermine]

it is what it is. either have paid DLC or no more updates at all

[tall jetty]

Bro is defending the multi billion dollar company krafton

[feral rose]

You're just coping hard and I don't get why

[void ermine]

no im just reasonable

[feral rose]

I'm here since day1 that was my top rpg , you have to understand it's sad to see it going like this

Was hoping it was just some kind of misinformation

[south moat]

since day1
2023 wasn't day1

[tall jetty]

What is stopping EHG from making shorter update cycles? What is stopping them from releasing better cosmetics? You wouldn't understand reason if it hit you in the face

[feral rose]

It was still in beta when I bought it , it wasnt even day1

[void ermine]

hey man, im not "defending" anything. EHG made their bed, there shouldve been different decision been made years ago with how they wanna operate content schedules and so on.
but it is what it is, we live in reality. either have paid dlc or nothing. at this point EHG didnt have a choice but to sell.

[gritty helm]

pipeline is what stops them, and expanding it is not something that can be done instantly is my guess

[void ermine]

ask them. i dont work at their studio. but clearly they had different goals when they wanted to have seasonal updates, and not a year inbetween. it didnt work out. i cant tell you why, i can only tell you thats how it is

[feral rose]

You have to agree they are delusional if they think paid content will bring players back

[void ermine]

i 100% guarantee you, nothing of this fallout, the sale or any of the discussion is what the devs wanted

mismanagment happens, devs are only humans too. again, i understand the frustration, but projecting malice on the devs side into this is undeserved

[south moat]

Obviously they wanted to sustain the game & make profit from mtx sales but ppl weren't buying them

[feral rose]

Eh oh well , as you said it is what it is

[slow forge]

it´s a shame what happened LE was a extremly good arpg

[void ermine]

i would be happier if they didnt sell, if they had at least 3 seasons a year, if just MTX wouldve worked out. i wouldve loved that for them and for us

but i knew something was wrong when the first 2 seasons were a year apart

[feral rose]

Yup that was a big hit to their reputation

[void ermine]

so something didnt work out, and this is the result

[green ore]

It "could" have been an extremely good arpg, but needed so much more polish. The base is there, definitely. Let's see if it'll happen under Krafton or not.

[feral rose]

It won't

[slow forge]

i dont think so we all know what they did to subnautica

[feral rose]

My pick was always LE over d4 and even poe2

[void ermine]

If they manage to cook something bug now with Krafton behind them, ill be playing and supporting$$ them as i have in the past. i care for game. Maybe not having to worry about money frees up some of their pipeline. i will wait and see.

[gritty helm]

I have no idea wtf is even going on with subnautica, too many contradicting stories

[feral rose]

I'm just frustrated , sorry if i made someone angry ... Pity really

[void ermine]

this tbh

[green ore]

I don't know the full extent of the Subnautica situation, but I do know that discussions online tend to be quite one-sided presentations.
My only experience with Krafton was PUBG, which as a game was doing fine. Battlepass didn't ruin anything and it brought a lot of money in. Shame it's a junky code

[south moat]

Frustration is understandable, really

[void ermine]

We all can just wait for the next update. If its bad...i mean we all can just stop playing. Or play the base game as paid for.
I dont expect any major spoilers for now, poor devs getting too much shit for anything they say lately.
I only care for gameplay. If they can hook me in, i will be there, no questions asked.

[green ore]

What I do know about Last Epoch is that it has a nice vibe, a great future target to become a great arpg, but it is being done many injustices due to its own faults, like skill bugs, legendary item designs missing, lack of endgame other than the basic "greater rift pushing", the jump from Abby to Ubby is massive.

[south moat]

Like I assume most of us here are invested in the game
Some more, some less

[green ore]

I'm not anymore

[south moat]

"most of us"

[gritty helm]

Krafton's reputation is concerning, and I'm sceptical but oh well. I'd like to be proven wrong, so I can only wish it will work out in the end.

[green ore]

Have enough games to play in my limited time. I had a ton of fun with LE though, genuinely 🙂

[void ermine]

if they manage to pull a massive season 4 youll be back

[green ore]

Doubt it due to the fact it would probably coincide with a lot of real life factors that would further limit my screen time

The only thing that would bring me back is Druid Cold DoT Spriggan downing Ubby in 30 seconds 🤣

[elder wedge]

if streamers/content creators didn't blow up the paradox classes case almost nobody would have been bothered, this is a case of sheep acting without an own mind, I mean seriously if they ask 15/20 euro for a class, whats the problem, you have been playing this game for free for ALOT of years

[floral charm]

for free?

[opal lava]

you must be trolling

[void ermine]

id rather have paid dlc/expansions than massive MTX stores. but thats just silly me.

[elder wedge]

yes you bought the game dunno when and have been playing for free since, not even having to buy stashtabs

[gritty helm]

I'm on opposite side, provided it's MTX with cosmetics only. But that's just me as well

[stone edge]

Yes, because it's impossible that people would have been playing the game without a Discord account...

[south moat]

Well when someone says "I've been here since day1" ofc I assume they mean the discord server.

[floral charm]

so i bought the game, so not free

[void ermine]

LE shouldve had GD model imo. Paid Expansions, the occasional MTX supporter pack. No online servers, just p2p and local coop.
I think that wouldve fit the game better. I never understood this focus on online for this game. Almost all ARPG players play solo anyway.

[elder wedge]

ok and thats the last money they can ever make of the game I guess, since you people want everything for free

[loud bay]

Cannot argue 🤣

[arctic cairn]

Maybe its must have paid paradox classes, that keep LE rolling on

[floral charm]

i never said anything about wanting everything for free, even got the legend supporter pack

[elder wedge]

guess you prefer the company to go bankrupt and the company to dissapear

[opal lava]

you say this like it's not the company's own fault lmao

[feral rose]

I prefer the company not lying to me

[loud bay]

It can be a middle ground. It can still stay online as it is, reduce its scope to a couple seasons a year, and biyearly expansions and it would be fine.

[gritty helm]

Respectufully disagree, I think PoE model model is better, because it allows for the constant game expansion. But ultimately it's not my decision to make, and I think there are better informed people behind the wheel.

[void ermine]

"lying". lying is with intention. circumstances change. plan was to fund the development through mtx. this didnt work out. so plans had to change to keep the company alive. you need to come to reality. the world doesnt operate on fairy dust and wishful thinking.

[stone edge]

Many games have 'failed', and the developers went on to other projects. Granted, in this case, it's less the "game", and more a result of poot decision-making, and poor follow-through regarding the game. So, in that case, I'm not sure how just handing them more money is going to fix anything. If I give 100,000$ to a gambling adict, it's not going to suddenly cure his addiction.

[void ermine]

PoE model only works if you can capture and entertain a hardcore audience with whales. LE was never that.

[floral charm]

dont say things that you know can change then?

[gritty helm]

Yes, but we are talking about hypothetical different models.

[void ermine]

they told you their intention and it didnt work out. its not that big of a deal. they wanted it to work but it didnt.

[floral charm]

for a lot of people it seems like it is a big deal, understandably so and at a time when the game wasn't really too hot

[void ermine]

🤷‍♂️ dont know what else to tell you.

[fervent lintel]

Agree. They didn't deliberately "lie." Where they really failed was to be transparent about what was going on and getting the community involved in the solution-finding process, and instead just dropped this news that they are breaking their promises--and the reason why was given only as an afterthought.

[void ermine]

people make it bigger than it is

they didnt want this to happen

but it did

[fervent lintel]

I know

[gritty helm]

They had a plan, it didn't work out so they have to change the plan.
Welp

I cannot really blame them

[fervent lintel]

You actually can--the model wasn't sustainable--but it wasn't malicious on their part

[void ermine]

whats screaming at them gonna change now? nothing. they are not happy with it, neither are we.

it sucks for everyone

[fervent lintel]

Yep

[void ermine]

but id rather have them more chances to make good seasons rather than closing the studio

[gritty helm]

Ironic. A lot of games nowadays feel mechanically shallow, but they have incredibly deep way to milk every penny. This is the opposite

[void ermine]

well...gacha games are a different story xD

[fervent lintel]

Yes, but they actually needed a better balance.

And some of it was just that their production can't keep up with what Live Service demands

Seasonal gaps are too big, cosmetics aren't "shiny" enough, new content pace is glacial

[gritty helm]

I think it was because of engine upgrade around season 1 ?

It really sucks, because it's not something one could have forseen

[fervent lintel]

I doubt it. People weren't opting out of the MTX because they care about "the engine"

[gritty helm]

I mean the season production delay

[fervent lintel]

The upgrade may have been necessary. EHG probably felt so.

But what does that have to do with the very mid character models and lackluster cosmetics?

Artists aren't the ones who do engine transitions

[gritty helm]

Cosmetics likely are the part of the game that needs improvement the most

[fervent lintel]

And the pace of seasons

Why would I buy a cosmetic (even if its amazing) for a game I play 1-2 weeks a year (as most of the player base tends to)?

It's an interdependant system

New seasons also gives opportunity to push new MTX

[gritty helm]

I cannot really comment on pace of seasons considering it was so warped thanks to season 2 delay

[fervent lintel]

Yeah, agree. It really hurt them.

Also, the season 1 restart mid-season did them no favors

How can a player have confidence in their model when something like that happens?

[void ermine]

PoE sells the majority of their MTX and supporter packs in the first 2 weeks of a season. if you have only 1 season a year...thats not much time to earn money.

[gritty helm]

I felt the gap between season 2 and 3 was okayish though ? Season 3 launched on end of august, so the gap is not too big yet, but it might be IMO

[fervent lintel]

Don't get me wrong--I'm not hater. I've supported the game since beta. These issues were much more detrimental than people want to admit though, until now at least.

[night marten]

the current timeframe between s3 and s4 is pretty normal/standard for the genre right now. pretty much all the ARPG's are doing 4+ months. we are at like 3 months and a week right now.

if it lands in Jan, it'll be like 4.5 - 5 months. which is understandable cuz of the holiday season

[fervent lintel]

Yeah, that gap was mostly okay imo. It's just that s3 was very mid. Can't speak for others, but I only played a few hours of it before I was done. It was boring, tedious, and I didn't want to manage a bunch of season-specific currencies.

[gritty helm]

If it lands in January it will be okay IMO

[fervent lintel]

Agree

[night marten]

if it stretches to feb (poe1) or march (7 months) that is where the problems start

[void ermine]

tbh i dont expect S4 to drop before march. if it was this close, i think they wouldve teased more already

[night marten]

i think

nah, they normally start teaser trailers like 2-3 weeks ahead of launch

so its still well within normal timeframes

[arctic cairn]

Now when there is new ownership, it might go beyond January

[night marten]

of their previous releases

[gritty helm]

I think it might be because of how amazing S2 was. Sadly I did not play S3 a lot, I had too much of S2 and PoE2 was fixed so I've made up the gap created by atrocious hunt season

[fervent lintel]

Dropping alongside POE or Diablo updates isn't a good idea

Unless they have a really bad launch of said update*

[south moat]

Well it's not like they decided some of them
they announced first and then GGG decided "we are releasing our update 2 days after that"

[loud bay]

I actually don't really mind a more lax cadence. One of the reasons i don't like PoE is that it feels way too fast and now with two games is just too much to me

[gritty helm]

I honestly think the worst thing about season 3 was PoE2 season dropping so close to it

[fervent lintel]

100%. POE1 was going at a pace of every 3-4 months, which some players find a bit much. If LE is every 4-6, I don't mind.

[night marten]

that.

and s3 was smaller cuz of campaign chapter (which part of the player base still want to be done even if they complain about it)

and s3 had half the dev time of s2 so it was always going to be smaller and general population doesnt want to understand that.

[void ermine]

i finished 40 challenges, mirror gear and all content in 2 weeks, im done with the league 😄

[fervent lintel]

But I was heavily enjoying S1 before the mid-season restart to "fix" trade. I didn't come back until S2.

[arctic cairn]

Every season 1-2 weeks d4, 3-4 weeks LE, 2-3 weeks poe1, 2-3 weeks poe 2

[floral charm]

no amount of time would have fixed the gameplay loop of s3

[stone edge]

Yeah, but POE has had 25 patches/hotfixes between seasons, were LE has only had 14. When issues aren't being addressed, that time between seasons seems A LOT longer...looking at you Stash Lag/Crash

[night marten]

yeah, but comparing s2 9 month dev time and s3 4 month dev time and complaining s3 was too small and expecting s2 size stuff in half the time is the issue

[fervent lintel]

I actually hate when live service games foist the campaign upon every new character made. It was always one of my biggest gripes about POE (still is) and it just seems unacceptable in my book because D3--for all its flaws--actually had the best solution for the genre in Adventure Mode. Just let me play. Don't make me do stoopid story mode every. time.

[loud bay]

Nah i'm too slow and i don't like rushing things. Plus the game doesn't let me experiment as much as i like

[floral charm]

people expected a fun season mechanic, that can be achievable in 4 months, or at least it should be

[fervent lintel]

This is why having seasons too far apart is problematic--some of them are going to hit, some are going to miss.

[night marten]

yeah that definately wouldnt take lots of extra dev time to make and make the rest of the seasons super small either.

[arctic cairn]

Like in d4 u can completely skip camping, only lvling to what u want

[fervent lintel]

D4 has a lot of other problems that keep me away--the biggest one being that giant "BLIZZARD" on the box.

[loud bay]

I have a job already don't need a second one 🤣 ( i miss the times i was able to do that, i was much more carefree)

[night marten]

i agree. but expecting a s2 level of a mechanic with half the time is unreasonable.

the devs can do better and the player base can also have realistic expectations. both things can and should happen

[stone edge]

What, you don't like getting a completely different (worse) game every season?

[void ermine]

D4 is a complete joke, especially considering the size of their dev team. D4 has ZERO innovation since its release.

[fervent lintel]

Weirdly, not so much

[floral charm]

you realize that they will have to deal with "half the dev time of s2" from now on, right? no way they will have maximum of 2 seasons per year considering they make most money at season launch from mtx and paradox classes
so basically this is the level people should expect from now on

[stone edge]

No company is better at making fun things worse, with their "we know what the players really want" attitude, than Blizzard.

[fervent lintel]

I really think the devs need to communicate with the players openly about the future of monetization in this game though. It would be so powerful to just ask players what is reasonable to monetize--what they would actually pay for--without igniting all the good will and trust they had up to this point.

[arctic cairn]

Blizzard started to lissen players, rax and wudi went to talk them, blizzard invited them

[fervent lintel]

"You think you do, but you don't."

(Turns out you actually did.)

[stone edge]

Oddly enough, 1 season a year would be enough.. if the gameplay were compelling. This last season, we got a shoddy mechanic, that was pointless after 1 day, unless you were farming for perfect-rolls on the 2 or 3 worthwhile items from the vendor.

[gritty helm]

S2 to S3 was a lose-lose situation sadly. Season 2 had to overdeliver and it did, but it made S3 feel worse

[stone edge]

I started hating the season mechanic, as much as a I hate imprisoned exiles, after Day 2

[fervent lintel]

My issue with S3 wasn't anything to do with S2. It's that the mechanic of S3 wasn't good.

[loud bay]

Agree with your point. S3 was mid - worked on a basic level and didn't do really wrong, but wasn't enough. We don't need s2 levels of content all seasons (but once every so often) but s3 wasn't what i'd call good. I played, had fun, not for so long.

[night marten]

yes and no.

s2 had 9 months of dev time. that level of dev time isnt going to happen again. it would kill the game if it only got an update once every 9 months. its entirely too long. the problem is a chunk of the player base assumed that would be the norm, which it isnt and cannot be.

s3 had 4 months, and a campaign chapter. so coming directly after s2 was a letdown because again, a large chunk had too high expectations on getting 9 months of dev crammed into 4 months of actual time. it was never going to happen.

now s4 will have a normal-ish amount of dev time, and (likely) no campaign chapter. so while s2 was good and s3 was 'bad' neither are really a good example of a normal seasonal mechanic from LE. s4 will be the best example of that

and s1 didnt really even have a mechanic

[void ermine]

imprisoned mages need to be reworked 100%

[stone edge]

S3 wasn't a "season worthy" mechanic. It was basically a completely watered down version of season 2... it didnt even introduce a new faction

[night marten]

a new faction is not coming every season. the devs were VERY clear about this

[gritty helm]

I think not introducing a faction was a good thing

Things will get bloated real fast if they introduce them every season

[stone edge]

yeah, that could true, if the rest of the mechanic was interesting. but it was the same.. find a new zone-portal, kill through some trash, kill boss

[elder wedge]

ppl just expect to much

[calm zodiac]

POE model is good to make them money, true, but its not as player friendly as people claim it to be

[floral charm]

what is a reasonable expectation?

[gritty helm]

that's fair, I've liked it but probably did not play it enough to get bored of it

[gritty helm]

I'd say it's way more "predatory" rather than "not player friendly", but that's true.

But considering it's cosmetics only people are fine with it

Well and stash tabs

[stone edge]

The vendor aspect of it was a bit anti-climatic... at least for me.

[night marten]

devils advocate here...but isnt that every mechanic in every ARPG? kill trash to get to boss, kill boss for loot?

repeat

[gritty helm]

Yes, but the trick is not feeling it's always this

[calm zodiac]

If they only sold cosmetics but not stash tab i'd be right there glazing them, but thats not how it works.

[fervent lintel]

Using POE as the example here, since they are the gold standard of live service ARPG, most of their content comes in two flavors:

• small content; a league mechanic, new skills and items, new skins
  This usually fits well within that shorter 3-4 month cycle.
• large content; Atlas overhauls, Settlers league, massive new mechanics and lore content, and other things that are the most responsible for power creep, but also for character depth/complexity to be so rich

It's common practice for GGG to work on the small content updates season by season while they work on the large content behind the scenes all year.

Since release, LE has only dropped large content until S3. but small content are going to be your coin toss updates--and this time it came up tails.

[gritty helm]

come to think of it vendor stash tabs in season 3 were kind of scummy of GGG

[stone edge]

yes and no, but this wasn't anything special. was a portal, and then a tiny map with a boss and a vendor. To be completely honest, the only mechanic was the 'lifecycle' of the boss, and that didn't matter in the slightest, other than determining what currency dropped

[gritty helm]

especially the announcement promising that you can upgrade the upgraded premium tabs, but you could not 😐

[calm zodiac]

This one in special i have no problem with compared to others, if they made those free people would flood stuff with bots so not very healthy

[stone edge]

look at POE Heist, for how to do an interesting/immersive season mechanic (like it or hate it)

[night marten]

i can understand that

[calm zodiac]

But i like how LE lets me have 300 tabs so i never have to manage things

[fervent lintel]

Gonna go with "hate it" and calling it "interesting" is a wild stretch, lol

[gritty helm]

I mean it is an interesting mechanic that people either love or hate

but nobody called it boring

[fervent lintel]

Or mostly ignore

[stone edge]

Not really.. I think Delve is interesting, I just hate it, because I dont really like doing it

[blissful ridge]

my personal issue with s3 wasnt the amount of content, i think the primordials were awesome and i had so much like in no other season, but that "portal stuff" i didnt like 😄

[fervent lintel]

Delve, Harbinger, Delirium, and Breach are my favs

[stone edge]

but LE S3, wasn't interesting/innovative.. and it got boring and repetitive after the 3rd time doing it

[gritty helm]

tbf some of the PoE mechanics are like that too

[stone edge]

fair enough.. i liked Delirium, Heist and Harbinger

[fervent lintel]

We don't talk about Sanctum

[night marten]

would you all have liked the 'rift beast' better if it was like, a random encounter instead of portals all the time, like an ambush. (instead of having to spec into the ambush on the weaver tree)

[gritty helm]

sanctum is not even that bad compared to say Lake lmao

[blissful ridge]

for me? yes

[fervent lintel]

I would have liked it better if it wasn't large health sponges with lame gimmick mechanics like POE2

[stone edge]

true, and they get hammered when it happens... I think the Beastiary one wasn't well-received, out of the box, and they tweaked it since to make it more user-friendly

[gritty helm]

and that's why you dislike season 3, it was bestiary but just loot lol

[fervent lintel]

It was "bad Bestiary," yes.

[stone edge]

i realized that, as i typed it 😉

LE Season 3, Lazy-Beastiary

[calm zodiac]

I think T8 was a great idea, it made itemization even cooler

But the "create your beast" was very meh

[night marten]

i dont see how the beasts are health sponges at all. outside of the one woven echo they all died pretty fast

but what lame gimmick are you talking about? like specifically?

[calm zodiac]

repetitive

[fervent lintel]

It was just so disruptive to gameplay flow to stop and wail on these huge health pool while walking in circles around them before I can proceed--constantly.

[calm zodiac]

boring theme

[calm zodiac]

i also dont think they are sponges at all

[night marten]

again...isnt this every mechanic ever?

[fervent lintel]

I don't mean in mapping.

[calm zodiac]

in fact i think they were a little weak lol

[night marten]

yeah the only one that was truly a challenge was the 300 corr WE one.

[fervent lintel]

It was just so annoying every time they popped up

[stone edge]

yeah, any of the ones with the buggy insta-kill abilities were a challenge 😉

[night marten]

i hated the reflect mod on them

oops, i hit myself and died

[stone edge]

wasn't the leap attack insta-gibbing players at the beginning?

[night marten]

i dont think so? maybe. idr hearing of anything like that

[fervent lintel]

As I said earlier, I only played a few hours of S3--not even talking about the issues you all may have faced in the late game. I found it so off-putting I just didn't have the motivation to complete the campaign. I've had this issue with some of POE's seasons as well. It's just how it goes--seasons will be hit and miss.

[fervent lintel]

Such a stupid/toxic mechanic in the genre that needs to go away forever.

[night marten]

this, i agree with

[stone edge]

reflect, and mobs that explode on death... hate both of those mechanics, because they just interrupt the flow of the gameplay in such an annoying fashion

or, ones that leave some lingering aoe

[fervent lintel]

Explosing on death really depends. Most games do it in a reasonable manner. Now D2's stygian dolls... that's not okay.

[arctic cairn]

When playing mage blood, u can roll reflect roll one of you pots and u good to go

[stone edge]

"i want my loot, but i need to sit here for 20 seconds while that fire pool disperses"

[stone edge]

but most games do it poorly.. those friggen exploding spike mobs in POE... hate hate hate hate with a toxic cancer hate them

[fervent lintel]

The quill beasts?

[stone edge]

yes

[fervent lintel]

At least those have counterplay

[stone edge]

poe is one of the few games that lets you use things like freeze/explode to counter them... so I do like that

[fervent lintel]

Phys dmg red, use range and dodge the projectile, block/dodge, or just have a huge health/es pool and heal through it, etc

[stone edge]

but i still hate when you kill a pack of them, and get shotgunned

[fervent lintel]

Yeah

Especially from off screen

[calm zodiac]

Also

One thing i'll say about LE, and thats something i noticed since 0.92

lack of 3d modelers is the biggest weakness of LE as a whole

[brittle hollow]

Big issue is this damn unity engine..

[calm zodiac]

whats wrong with it

[brittle hollow]

It’s riddled with issues. It’s always been riddled with issues lol

[fervent lintel]

Like what?

[calm zodiac]

yeah lol

[brittle hollow]

Most of the times you have to “verify” integrity of your files.. it’s an issue with the packaging, from Unity.

I remember broken models appearing in 1.0 all the time with purple outlines etc..

[fervent lintel]

I don't think I've ever that those kinds of problems

[brittle hollow]

People had those problems though, I’m just saying

[calm zodiac]

that seens like a very specific issue lol

[brittle hollow]

It’s gotten better of course with the latest updates they’ve done

Then you must be new

There were tons of reports of these things

[calm zodiac]

Not at all, been here since MP came out basically

[brittle hollow]

Ok!

[calm zodiac]

I mean, not saying that your issue isn't valid

[brittle hollow]

It’s not my issue lol

[calm zodiac]

I mean, your issue in the sense that you're having it xD

[brittle hollow]

Haven’t had that issue since 1.1 when they fixed most of them

But there’s a pic in here about verifying file integrity lol

There’s a reason

[acoustic palm]

@calm zodiac yo, I remember you

[calm zodiac]

I remember you too 😄

Hope ya doing well

[acoustic palm]

I had some sleep

[calm zodiac]

Thats important lol, big improvement

[fervent lintel]

Okay, but that isn't a Unity-specific issue. Lots of games have issues like that. I'm not seeing why that means Unity is an especially bad engine.

[calm zodiac]

I had this kinda issue with cod recently had to uninstall that shit 3 times and them it fixed itself lol

[acoustic palm]

-# I see that LE isn't your only bad choice in games

Jk

[calm zodiac]

Well, i purchased diablo 4

Not a day that i dont regret it

[acoustic palm]

I was able to refund it

[calm zodiac]

Good

i wasnt as lucky

[acoustic palm]

I had like 8h into it, I begged steam support and got a human being that refunded it

Chadest steam support

[fervent lintel]

Steam has been extremely lenient on the refunds for that game because they failed to provide the AI disclosure

[acoustic palm]

I did my 40/40 in poe, tested an ARPG, but since I'm under a nda can't say which, used the payment from it to buy poe support packages, waiting for poe 2

[calm zodiac]

i made the mistaken of finishing that monstrosity they call a campaign, kept telling myself it was going to get good eventually(It never did)

[fervent lintel]

So this is in part pro-consumer Steam keeping good relations with its user base, and part Steam avoiding potential litigation for participating in the misleading sales stuff if they don't refund.

[acoustic palm]

I played a day myself, and I felt it wasn't for me and I Tried to refund it and third time it worked

[calm zodiac]

the one from the wolcen guys?

[acoustic palm]

can't say anything

[calm zodiac]

I got the most expensive POE support package recently for free thanks to a lucky cs2 drop

[acoustic palm]

pog

[calm zodiac]

Was just wondering if it was that or something decent lol

[fervent lintel]

I don't think I ever 40/40'd a season, lol. I have a hard time playing just one character, but I also take long breaks and when I come back it's like "gandalf-moria-no-memory.gif"

[acoustic palm]

see? this is one thing LE needs, LE is nowadays known by most of its players as poe waiting room, or diablo waiting room

[acoustic palm]

I did it in two weeks

[calm zodiac]

Nobody is waiting for diablo lol

[acoustic palm]

https://poe.ninja/poe1/profile/Madliv-1323/character/Madliv

[calm zodiac]

everyone will quit this diablo season in 3 days to go play poe

[acoustic palm]

for a reason, poe 2 is really loved by d4 fans, i always see a "i'm an ex d4 player, pls help me with build"

[fervent lintel]

I mean, that's not just an ex-D4 thing. That's just a POE thing, lol

[acoustic palm]

yeah, but i see more d4 players going for poe2 than for poe 1

[fervent lintel]

Probably because if they were the type to play D4, they are the type that has to play "the latest thing," not realizing 1 is way better than 2 and likely will be for a few years, at least.

[calm zodiac]

Also on that note, if the announcement actually had any season 4 news AT ALL we would have something to be talking about LE

but unfortunately thats not the case

[acoustic palm]

people also say that poe 2 is more noob friendly than poe 1

[south moat]

Oh, new eterra monthly

[fervent lintel]

2 is intended to have an easier barrier to entry and be more casual-friendly in a number of ways

[calm zodiac]

Well now we have something to talk about LE

[acoustic palm]

the link doesn't work

[calm zodiac]

let me read

[fervent lintel]

But 2 has a lot of catching up to do content-wise to compete with 1

[calm zodiac]

@honest belfry Boss you posted the link for the pic not the post lol

[acoustic palm]

@honest belfry the link is towards a .png

[void ermine]

I am a PoE1 Veteran. I play every league for weeks, had 40/40 in keepers. I never once managed to get to PoE2 endgame. The leveling/questing is so fundamentally unfun to me, i cant force myself to play it. I made it to act3 on release and didnt even get past act2 in their league updates.

[real cedar]

oopsie.png

[acoustic palm]

it's a nice png, but I think more than an armor texture is intended

its fixed, pog

"The EHG team has been doing its best to “exterminate the nest” of bugs."

we eating good dudes

[honest belfry]

working on it fixed it

[acoustic palm]

wait, this is the octomber link

bamboozled

Alright, it's november now

[honest belfry]

Too much Turkey. Still waking up...

[calm zodiac]

"A road map has also been provided in addition to all of the above. We encourage you all to take a look and see with your own eyes, here."

Just saying

this part in particular could have stayed out

[acoustic palm]

The apply link doesn't work.

I can't apply to EHG

[calm zodiac]

better not to remember people that this roadmap ever existed lol

[fervent lintel]

*Remind

[acoustic palm]

The apply link leads towards a .jpeg

[calm zodiac]

this

Well, so basically any actual news will only come in january

oh welp

[acoustic palm]

Soon TM

[calm zodiac]

The recipe look good tho

Atleast we can say that i guess

[fervent lintel]

You can use : tm : to do ™

[acoustic palm]

-# Pls fix the apply link in the post, it makes the whole thing look even more unprofessional

[fervent lintel]

Soon™

[calm zodiac]

While the details of this class are under lock and key for the time being, we have revealed that this will be the first of what is being called “Paradox Classes.”

then why announce it 😭

[acoustic palm]

to give us content

we wouldn't be here talking, if it wasn't for it

[calm zodiac]

what content, the only content to talk about is the Wassail

[acoustic palm]

toxic chat content :kek

discord pvp

[fervent lintel]

I wonder if these new classes will by type-inverted versions of existing ones--so you can do something like a Poison Orb not-sorc

[calm zodiac]

Like cool, new armor

art looks neat

what does it do?

[acoustic palm]

it's an unique item

legendary*

[calm zodiac]

Cool

what does it do lmao

[south moat]

Nobody knows

[acoustic palm]

it's just a nice teaser

they made an armor that looks decent

that's it

[honest belfry]

Should work now

[fervent lintel]

I could see that being the kind of content that is easily produced, justifiable to charge a few bucks for, and totally optional without being obviously OP out the gate

[acoustic palm]

Tested it, thanks. I can apply to be a creative director now.

[calm zodiac]

I mean, the art does

[void ermine]

Can i apply to be an armchair developer?

[calm zodiac]

but we also have tons of uniques with cool art that look nothing alike in the game xD

[acoustic palm]

for curious people, these are the positions they looking to fill: https://eleventhhourgames.bamboohr.com/careers

[fervent lintel]

Good to see a lot of art positions. Hopefully that means they will fix the MTX issue.

[south moat]

Oh boy, time to apply my art skills

[acoustic palm]

some gameplay too

[fervent lintel]

Yeah, probably for faster implementation of new game concepts/mechanics--better pace for seasonal releases

[acoustic palm]

More importantly, most are leadership positions, so they are looking for a different/ more accelerated change

[fervent lintel]

Also, more minds = more power. Higher potential for innovative/interesting ideas to emerge that are worthy of implementation.

[acoustic palm]

Experienced people and leadership positions yeah

[void ermine]

They have some breathing room now that the company has been sold

lets hope it culminates in some cool new content and cosmetics

i also expect way more stuff in the shop. krafton wants to make the money back

[fervent lintel]

It needs to be really good tho

And honestly, cheaper

I won't buy at current pricing either way

[eager drum]

Lmao paid to win then?

[void ermine]

it will rather get more expensive, not cheaper lol

even cheaper is not sustainable for them

[acoustic palm]

Judd is online, warning Judd is in fact online

[fervent lintel]

I buy most of my games on Steam, and I rarely (if ever) pay more than $40 for a single game. These MTX have to compete with that, and they simply don't. Beyond that, the pricing comes off as "too proud" of the very mid MTX as it is. There's just not way to justify it. If I want to spend money just to support the company, I prefer to just gift people copies of the game.

[simple bison]

Making a digital good cheaper doesn't mean you'll make less money from it, there are no margins per copy sold unlike physical goods, so there's no overhead, it's just a matter of balance between price and how many people are willing said price

If you make something cost 1000$ and sell 1000 copies, that's the same as making it cost 10$ and selling 100000 copies

[calm zodiac]

100%

[simple bison]

The current prices might be the best balance, I have no clue.

[fervent lintel]

Yeah, but I don't think that's how it works in this case. I think even a 33% discount could increase the sales more than 50%

[simple bison]

Just saying that lowering the price doesn't necessarily mean they make less money

[calm zodiac]

Honestly i have 300 epoch coins there, never spent them cause i know something better will come and i'll regret lol

[acoustic palm]

In my honest, toxic opinion, the mtx looks too bad to cost more than 5 euro.

[simple bison]

Totally fair feedback

[void ermine]

sure thats always the case. but from experience, making stuff cheaper wont increase profit in many cases. thats why i said it

[acoustic palm]

Like, I own 6 sets I got from support packages and just one is barely usable.

[void ermine]

EHG only knows their numbers

[simple bison]

yep

[acoustic palm]

Rest of them are ugly and they make my game experience worse

[calm zodiac]

Also another issue there, different colors having a different cost,
Like theres one of the pets i think its the dragon, one cost 50, the other 100.
I like the color of the 100 more, but i'll not pay double the 50 for a different color, so what happens? i dont buy any.

[void ermine]

Just to clarify: i think offering SKINS that cost the same as the WHOLE GAME is completely out of wack. from that angle, any new skin should realistically cost 1$ at max

[acoustic palm]

I hope that EHG reworks the old mtx one day, that would restore some good will.

[fervent lintel]

That all said, speaking for myself, I'm way more likely to buy skill effects than character/gear skins. When I'm playing through the game, I don't notice the latter 95% of the time. I always see the skills when I use them.

[calm zodiac]

I think its optional so wathever much it cost its wathever

but thats just me

But the issue is, the store is built in a way where skins look like a bad deal in comparasion with each other.

[acoustic palm]

Back to comparing ith with path of exile, but when you buy a support pack of 30 euro lets say, you also get a 30 euro worth of points plus whatever the skins they offer, which is always a portal, a set of arms, social badge and avatar badge

[void ermine]

i think there should be a fair share of in game obtainable, COOL gear/skins, either through drops or achievements/challenges. having all in game gear look like ass is just a sour taste in my mouth

[fervent lintel]

You know what it tastes like, huh?

😄

[calm zodiac]

I dont think thats intentional

Like, ive said it a million times already

but EHG just lack 3d modellers

like, say they released paid transmog, like in POE

That would do nothing cause theres nothing cool to transmog to

Items look really neat in the art, but them in the game it look nothing alike

[acoustic palm]

we have mtx at home, mtx at home

[main frigate]

We’ve been strongly against paid expansions because of how they split the player base; so by making the class paid, the monetisation remains optional and the player base can stay as one.

Why paid expansions will split player base?

[acoustic palm]

because some will play game with the expansion, some will play without it

[calm zodiac]

https://www.lastepochtools.com/db/items/UAzCsEZwdiA

[main frigate]

Ohhhhh

[void ermine]

PoE only started to add in game models for their uniques YEARS later. in game gear looks pretty bad still. only in PoE2 the base gear looks somewhat good

[calm zodiac]

As a clear example, the "Dark shroud of cinders" art

look amazing

i'd pay for MTX that look like that

[acoustic palm]

thing is, we are comparing le with poe 1 there in first days, but LE is already an 8 year old game

[calm zodiac]

But you equip it and its a boring bum armor

[acoustic palm]

is not like LE launched yesterday

[main frigate]

picture please

[simple bison]

Imo the new teased body armour 2d art is likely my favourite,

[calm zodiac]

It looks great

[acoustic palm]

and the technology in 2010 when poe 1 released, was way different than now, poe also took so long to reach 100k peak players, LE took a launch with 250k for granted

[calm zodiac]

Can't post pics here sadly, just google the name you'll find it

[acoustic palm]

are you commiting pic evasion

[calm zodiac]

But as much as it looks amazing, its also pointless as it'll look nothing like that in game lol

[acoustic palm]

what about we add some crypto and monkey pics in game

[simple bison]

Here's the one I'm talking about

[acoustic palm]

yeah, looks nice. but ... we want to see it in game too

[calm zodiac]

This

[simple bison]

yeah for sure

[calm zodiac]

In game it'll look like... a regular leather chestplate.

[acoustic palm]

cuz I bet that it will just be an ordinary grey armor in game lol

[main frigate]

ohhhhh do that cloth have an actual model in le?

[acoustic palm]

you know how food looks in mc donalds ads vs in reality

[calm zodiac]

Nope, not at all, its a boring gray armor when you equip it lol

[main frigate]

:(

[calm zodiac]

Doesnt the art in that look cool as hell?

[main frigate]

I'm unhappy with the actual model is a boring gray armour

[calm zodiac]

Imagine me after dropping it lol

[acoustic palm]

are we going to have christmas mtx? pog

a reindeer pet

[calm zodiac]

We wont have any content in december

so no

[acoustic palm]

ah true

[main frigate]

@coarse swallowDid the artist respond you on can she/he draw a Santa hat for Gregory in the same style?

[acoustic palm]

i want a capybara with a santa hat

o holy capybara

christmasbara

[main frigate]

we enter the last month now 🤔

[acoustic palm]

see? that's the kind of mtx that could cost like 5 euro and i would buy it

[fervent lintel]

This is wildly overstating LE's existence. It's not "8 years old" in the way you're trying to make it sound.

[acoustic palm]

well, you should also see how poe 1 looked when it was 0.2 in alpha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmSCq0juiQs here

[fervent lintel]

My fav cosmetic in POE is the astral-looking one for certain cold skills--it shows a bunch of stars and stuff, like you're peering through the void

[acoustic palm]

I have some tormenter set as armor that I really love. it looks like a ghost and when I kill stuff, souls get back to me and I absorb it, that's the shit. I think I bought it 5-6 years ago

also, the flame keeper set from poe 1 challenges looks dank in poe 2

[real cedar]

maybe I'd buy it, depends how it looks in 3D

[fervent lintel]

This is another reason I like skill effects a lot better than skins--less easily bait/switched

Skins have this problem of the 2D artist wearing beer goggles while looking at the 3D model

[real cedar]

I did just see frostys new video on LE lol

[void ermine]

LE looked dogshit throughout the development. art was among the last things they overhauled before release

[calm zodiac]

I personally never buy skill effects neither here nor in POE

while i have no issue paying a little more on armor

[fervent lintel]

In hindsight, it is a kind of questionable approach to base your monetization model on art, but use placeholders through almost all of the development.

[calm zodiac]

i feel like the price of skills is a bit of a ripoff

like WDYM this skill effect that ill use on a single skill on a single class cost me as much as a full set of armor lol

[fervent lintel]

I don't like the price either, but I get a lot more value from them because I will use them a lot and actually see them--unlike the character model

[void ermine]

D4 has Armor sets for 28€ that only work on a single class

[simple bison]

Similar amount of work sometimes tbf, it's the same in poe

[calm zodiac]

Well, i aint touching that game with a 10m pole

[copper sorrel]

I would rather get Steak for that price

[real cedar]

it's questionable to expect the cosmetics they were releasing to fund the game too, they looked like ass

[calm zodiac]

I mean maybe, but we don't pay for how much work something takes to make, we pay for the value we see in it

[simple bison]

not wrong

[calm zodiac]

So yeah, i can't see the same value in a single skill effect for a single class being worth as much as a cool weapon or a cool armor that i can use with every character

[void ermine]

if i wanna be real to myself, none of the supporter packs have been "worth" their money, neither in LE nor in PoE. But i wanna look cool, so, yeah

[real cedar]

yeah, skins should be universal unless they're like a dollar

[copper sorrel]

They should let us mod the skins

[calm zodiac]

Yeah no

thats not happening lol

I mean you can in singleplayer mode but not MP

[void ermine]

that would defeat the whole purpose of funding the game lol

[calm zodiac]

Theres a bigger issue

allowing modding = allowing cheating

[real cedar]

people aren't going to fund it regardless imho lol

[calm zodiac]

You can mod the game in the singleplayer mode

nothing is stopping it

[void ermine]

i wouldnt mind for some eyecandy characters in the game

[calm zodiac]

But ive told them

Make hot anime girls and hot anime husbandos both in swimsuit

[real cedar]

I bought one skin in diablo 4 and it was for the sorceress kek

[calm zodiac]

That will fund the game for 18 years

[void ermine]

theres one for the rogue...just saying

[real cedar]

I lied, I bought two. If it's the bondage rogue one I'm thinking about lmao

[void ermine]

i mean... if we cant costumize our characters, we cant really have eyecandy armor for them. they are not particularly appealing. but i mean like some nice lore characters

[fervent lintel]

Sure would be a different/interesting take on the live service model if a studio just made a strong base game, then produced a bunch of optional mods to sell that let players pick and choose the experience they want, and it would even vary each playthrough/character because you can just enable/disable w/e mods you want. The biggest thing that would sell this system is that the game has build-in mod management systems to make it painless/seamless, so if you just press "load" on a character, it automatically knows which mods that save needs and just initializes it for you until you want to change it again, and could do this for each different character.

[void ermine]

PoE has private leagues where you can add a bunch of mods to the game

[real cedar]

you could sell hair styles, make up, implement hideouts with customization too. There's honestly a bunch of stuff you could do instead of paid classes lol

[fervent lintel]

Yeah, that's kind of like this, but still different

[void ermine]

they could add a lot of stuff to the game. but cosmetics aside...i want a banger season 4

honestly they kind of have to deliver

big time

good thing they didnt set a date

One of my biggest wishes for LE going forward is season-challenges with cosmetic rewards...i want something to work towards to while playing. Just like in PoE

I did 40/40 in keepers, even though the reward this time was garbage

[real cedar]

it'll need to be huge because I honestly don't think the controversy is going to blow over

[fervent lintel]

Doesn't need to be huge. Needs to be good. Really good.

I think the monster Arena is criminally under-utilized, and part of this is the very poor decision to gate it behind keys.

[void ermine]

no, it needs to be huge

[fervent lintel]

So remove the content gating and really expand on it

Nah, huge doesn't work if it isn't good.

[void ermine]

I dont wanna be in the devs shoes. They will get scrutinized for EVERYTHING in the upcoming season

[calm zodiac]

Also now that I'm thinking

They should just have done some stupid battle pass like every game does

For 10-15$ or smth

[fervent lintel]

While cringe, that wouldn't actually upset people so much

[void ermine]

hell no

[calm zodiac]

I mean if it's just cosmetic stuff I could just ignore it

[fervent lintel]

Exactly

[calm zodiac]

But some ppl might want to yolo

It's revenue

[void ermine]

i buy a 100$ supporter pack, but i DESPISE battle passes

[fervent lintel]

So don't buy it 😛

[calm zodiac]

I mean it's better then paid characters

I don't like passes either but I feel like that would have less backlash

[void ermine]

i take paid dlc/characters over MTX Shop, Supporter Packs and battle passes each day of the week

[void ermine]

sorry, people are stoopid

[fervent lintel]

That's just not how most people in the community feel about it

Mostly because they don't want the semblance of p2w--not because they are "stupid"

[zinc blaze]

the only battle pass I like is how deep rock galatic does it, their free and you can go back and finish them at any time/they never expire

[void ermine]

Dunno, im old. i want it like in the old days. gimme an expansion every 1-2 years to buy and im happy

[calm zodiac]

Passes help with revenue and retention, two things le is in need

[fervent lintel]

While I agree, I prefer that, we aren't going to get that

[void ermine]

we are allowed to dream

cant wait for GD expansion next year

[fervent lintel]

And are entirely optional

[real cedar]

I like nikkes battle passes because you get a hot woman at the end of it kek

[calm zodiac]

LE only sold 3 million coppies, while that's not little money, gotta keep in mind that the game is half price not full price

So it's like 1.5 million coppies of a full price game

[fervent lintel]

I wouldn't count it as if every copy was half price

[zinc blaze]

great news for you then, you can spec the goth lady to be fire based

[fervent lintel]

I bought my own copy on sale early on, but I bought copies for my friends at full price

[real cedar]

ez skip

[calm zodiac]

The game is not 70$, it's 35, so it is half the full price games charge these days.

[zinc blaze]

the old man can also be fire based

[fervent lintel]

Ah, I see what you mean

[calm zodiac]

They're also an EU based studio if I'm not mistaken, so development costs are the highest in the world

[void ermine]

I bought TQ2 at 23€ early access, even though its a long way from release. thats a steal. and they already said they will be at most having paid expansions, no live service. looking forward to it

[fervent lintel]

Yeah, that's how GD does it

[calm zodiac]

I like live service in arpgs

[zinc blaze]

what % of the EHG team is in europe? I thought they were more global

[fervent lintel]

All their listings for jobs right now are in TX, but remote

[zinc blaze]

thats how most remote jobs do it

just pick a place and say remote

[real cedar]

I backed grim dawn when I was in college lol

[fervent lintel]

Well, Dallas in particular is known to be a tech hub

Probably favorable taxes/legislation for it

[zinc blaze]

yea

[fervent lintel]

A bunch of sources say they were founded in Delaware

[calm zodiac]

Fairly sure most of it

[fervent lintel]

But if everything they do is remote, it's just global

[zinc blaze]

yea

[turbid silo]

We're all over the world 🙂

[fervent lintel]

How many kiwis? 🤨

Does GGG have to worry about corporate espionage?

[void ermine]

Honestly remote work for a dev studio is just perfect. best way to get talent to work for you, no reason not to use it.

office culture is mostly toxic anyway

[fervent lintel]

It has a lot of advantages, but it can slow the development pipeline too

[void ermine]

you need to manage it, thats true

lots of work

[fervent lintel]

You're also susceptible to a lot of things a local office isn't

It's all trade-offs

I definitely prefer not to be in the same building with the same people all the time

Joe forgot to shower today. Suzy's kimchi and fish lunch stinking up the break room. Paul is a rude a**hole. Kerry can't mind her own business.

Blegh. 🤮

[void ermine]

Commuting

[fervent lintel]

That too

[void ermine]

Waste of time and money

[fervent lintel]

Seriously

[void ermine]

I have WFH regularly too. i can just put the washer on between work or go to the toilet whenever

its just nice

way less stress

[fervent lintel]

Can also just put some music on and vibe while you work

[void ermine]

depends on the work but yes ^^

[fervent lintel]

I did towing for 2 years. I loved it, except for the schedule.

Mostly doing calls for people who called our shop directly, contract with us, or for AAA (auto club). We never had to do repo or homeless cleanup, so we always get to be the good guys--go where we're actually wanted.

Very easy to get along with coworkers when you only have to see them a few times a week

[left bronze]

reviews looking good!

[arctic cairn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peY-CDejYAA forsty is making good videos, its fun to look🤣

[void ermine]

?

[real cedar]

sarcasm

steam reviews

[void ermine]

ah

its astounding the amount of hate and vitriol people have to share

[left bronze]

Deserved

[void ermine]

criticism? yes. hate? no

[fervent lintel]

If the job postings are anything to go by, it looks like they are trying to address the core issues. They just kind of went about the PR side of this very poorly.

[arctic cairn]

who the hell gear, game is good, cant wait this paradox classes🥰

[void ermine]

cant wait for more endgame content

and overheal exiled mages 😄

i dread activating those

[gritty helm]

I hope paradox classes are going to be something complex, and for the lack of better words "deep fried"

As in "insanely weird"

[arctic cairn]

push c neyond u can and get top 1 arena rank

[main frigate]

👀 when will EHG release paradox maps? It sounds more interesting.

[gritty helm]

Not anytime soon me thinks

[main frigate]

I watched, but I don't quite get where it's fun

[void ermine]

he is sarcastic

thats the "fun" part

i think he got boring very fast

[covert marsh]

easiest class to learn the game?

[arctic cairn]

rogue

[void ermine]

honestly none of them is "hard"

you can get behind any of them

easy to understand skill interactions and just doing whatever while doing the main quest

i would just play the class that appeals most to you, gameplay wise

[coarse swallow]

Sorry, been in meetings. I did see this though! I've talked to them, and while I can't make any promises, my magic eight ball says "outlook good"

[main frigate]

...Magic eight ball?

How many magic balls Kain own and what are they for is what I wonder next 👀

[calm jay]

Sentinel imo, Smite is basically all in one skill, if you roll to Paladin after Sentinel you can really just run a build that holds Smite down and does literally nothing else to endgame.

Just ran a Pally like that and he basically only could die or even take damage if I stopped holding Smite down, otherwise it was DEUS VULT

[arctic cairn]

pally will be booring

[void ermine]

it depends entirely on what a person likes in gameplay

build/class archetypes are completely different

[arctic cairn]

true, best thing is play every class and get feeling

i have 14 rogue characters, im like stuck with rogue most of time

[wary thicket]

Anyone play this on steam deck ? If so did they fix the bug where it massively lags during monoliths ?

[covert marsh]

Thanks guys my other question is can i play this game blind?

[viral marsh]

100% Yes

[arctic cairn]

for sure yes

just a tip, when u reach mid endgame, give a look some builds, but dont compy paste, just give a look, then u have idea what to build and how, just dont copy paste, try different, when its dont work try more differente, rdy many times, when strguel give a look again to some builds, then again repeat, its so good harder when diablo 4, easyer when poe1/2, its damn good game and simple to learn

[void ermine]

totally. just read the skills and their talents to scout interactions

thats really important

you can also easily change your build whenever you find a cool unique for your class

[sharp hedge]

i need a new season mannnnn

im itching to play LE

[arctic cairn]

just play it

[sharp hedge]

yea im downloading it again rn lol

[arctic cairn]

guy i forgot how u hope Haven of silk, is it beafore u reach corrption or no?

[fervent lintel]

Imo, Sorc. If you have played mages in other ARPGs, a lot will be familiar to you, so it's just a matter of learning this game's systems and maths.

[willow sentinel]

It's when you do your first cemetery

[arctic cairn]

kk

[void ermine]

circle of fortune still one of the best ARPG features ever. change my mind.

[fervent lintel]

It's funny, because half of the mechanic is just Prophecy from POE 😄

simpsonsdidit.gif

[void ermine]

everyone copies from everyone. its how you adapt it to a game that counts

Prophecy in PoE was super bad

[fervent lintel]

I don't think it was

I really liked being able to target farm with it

[void ermine]

we can have different opinions 😄

[fervent lintel]

I'm more disappointed that they got rid of it instead of making it better tho

And they keep trash like Sanctum, Heist, Lab instead

[void ermine]

i mean....genesis tree is pretty good for SSF, but i doubt theyll keep it in the game after this league

way to powerful

[fervent lintel]

Yeah, it's like Harvest, but even stronger

No shot they keep it like this

[acoustic palm]

Now that steam will add ai badge for games that use generative ai (if you don't disclosure and you are cuaght, you are blacklisted from steam), I can't wait to see the slops

epic ceo had a rant about it today that "it's pointless and it doesn't matter"

[void ermine]

AI will be ineviable in the future, theres no way around it sadly. its getting way to powerful as well.

[acoustic palm]

AI yes, generative, no.

[void ermine]

but it needs to be disclosed

[acoustic palm]

Always a red flag when someone is against people being more informed.

Sure, let the people know how AI was used and they will judge if they want to buy the game or not.

[unique drum]

Anyone ever heard of stash tabs disappearing? I played at the start of the season, then took a break. Now almost all the tabs (and I guess items) are gone. I didn't have anything valuable anyways but seems like a potentially big issue.

[fervent lintel]

I don't use EGS because I never trusted the people behind it

[fervent lintel]

Are you sure you're in the same character category (seasonal vs non-seasonal, for example)?

[acoustic palm]

Remember when everyone and their mother slapped "RTX ON" on their games because it was such a revolutionary tech for game visuals? If the tech gives results and people love it, devs will use it as a badge of honor

[unique drum]

Yea, it's on hcssf. I leveled this character then rerolled and last I played I died on my other one. So idk, also when I loaded up the game it told me it was sending everything to legacy which was odd. No idea what happened.

[void ermine]

character self found?

[fervent lintel]

You're sure that char didn't die?

[unique drum]

Yea i checked all that stuff it's still on hc af. Upon Google searches apparently it's a thing. Some suggestions are messing with the stash affinities to recover it so ill try that

I bought a bunch of new tabs, which didn't use any gold then logged back in and everything was there. Weird bug