💬┃general

[coarse swallow]

As somone who owns an observatory and does astrophotography, yes, yolo is 100% part of the process of finding things =p

[tropic nebula]

it has its place with professionals in the right hands

YUP

[quick magnet]

That said, lets not presume AI has any place in this project. It doesn't need one.

[tropic nebula]

we use it for underwater models too

we teach it the needle AND the haystack

[exotic solar]

And here i am checking nasa website on daily basis to get my fix.

[coarse swallow]

(I just want to comment as a follow-up that my PFP is he very first picture I ever took of M42, with my telescope I got as a graduation present )

[tropic nebula]

thats hawt

[obtuse bay]

I have question though, this team made the game and I personally thank you but is there a possibility of using AI If you can't find members? or you go same like this?

[tropic nebula]

but anyways, ya. so AI is used in a lot of places you may not actually realise. Acadamia and research, the very things that keep technology pushing forward.

and i dont mean chatGPT

lol

we use the heaviest when we code things. its days/weeks shaved off projects

[obtuse bay]

I know I am annoying lol

[severe socket]

I understand using artificial idiots where they actually make some difference. Pharmaceutics, biology, technical stuff, that sort of thing.

But out in the wild for regular peeble to screw around? Nah.

More harm than good.

[tropic nebula]

you mean its fine as long as its in good hands.

[severe socket]

LET ALONE IN PLACES LIKE KRAPTON AND SURPRISE-MECHANICS

[tropic nebula]

So youll trust AI to synthesize your medications, but not your video game.

checks out

[severe socket]

You do remember what happened with AWS recently, don't you?

[coarse swallow]

I'm not aware of the slightest intention to use AI in the place of a team member. As Judd stated recently, we are 100% human first as EHG.

To be clear, our development approach is not changing. We remain focused on building Last Epoch the same way we always have, with the same hands-on design philosophy.

[severe socket]

And that happened exactly shortly after Amazon stated they "let go" like 40% of their devops in favor of "ai".

[tropic nebula]

ya, didnt the load balancer fail?

or something

[severe socket]

No idea about the details, but the outage was humongous.

[tropic nebula]

ya, it was a endpoint in virgina.

it failed

[coarse swallow]

The internet as a whole has been having a lot of issues recently, causing us no end of headaches, haha.

[obtuse bay]

so many outages in this month

[quick magnet]

I don't want a game to be made with generative things. it takes the joy out of it. It's not why we play games. Games are an artform, they're meant to be made by people with stories to tell and ideas to share. AI just makes what you put into it but prettier/neater/tidier. And that's like...not the point of art.

[tropic nebula]

Im just making sure, thats what were going with. Trust to keep us healthy, not for video games.

[quick magnet]

Technical aspects? Yes. Creative aspects? Not even a little.

[severe socket]

I'd argue about "neater-tidier", but that's just me.

[quick magnet]

Well that again just applies to technical details and nothing about it is ever gonna be perfect.

But it's still like... the purpose of the tool

to try and cut down on some of the actual busywork. The mundanity

[coarse swallow]

I apologize, I feel this deserves a response from me, but I don't feel I understand the comment. If you'd like, you can DM me more details on this feedback so I can properly record it?

[quick magnet]

And even that's not necessary in all things but with art? It's more often than not actively detrimental to the final point

[tropic nebula]

I think Judd should consult an AI engineer. At least let him talk to him to see what things he could parse, kill backlogs, debug code, fix procedurally generated coding etc

[tropic nebula]

we have a dm already. kek

[obtuse bay]

interesting idea

[quick magnet]

I don't think Judd is the one that needs to talk to anything, he's just one guy at the top, not the one making the game himself

Iunno, this whole topic has meandered away from any salient point.

[tropic nebula]

well, hes kinda the game director. so

[silk wolf]

@coarse swallow How is it to be a game dev today? How do one seperate all the negative feedback from actual good feedback, and do you think listening to the players to much can be bad?

[quick magnet]

All I was talking about before is the need for them to run a tighter ship.

[severe socket]

https://techtrenches.substack.com/p/the-great-software-quality-collapse

I advise giving it a read.

[quick magnet]

And I don't AI is gonna do them any favors. Least of all with the reputation t has in the gaming space

This shit is a death sentence.

[obtuse bay]

right now, yeah lol

[severe socket]

Speaking of "ai" and tighter ship, lol:

HAL 9000

[obtuse bay]

AI can be good but If it affects the jobs of devs in a bad way, f it

I don't want to be yapping lol judd already said- no AI intentions

[tropic nebula]

if its part of a tool kit, its not. Its letting them do more with less. Im not suggesting they put their feet up and hit enter. Im suggesting they use it to dig through thousands of lines of code

1 coder can debugg 5000 lines of code vs 2000 lines (just an example)

[obtuse bay]

today, it will be thousands of codes and next day, it will be your chair...

[tropic nebula]

thats inevitable (Play thanos gif)

[shut quiver]

Thats basically how it work but it also means work which required 5 ppl now requires 3? Something along those lines...which I learned from recent amazon stunt of lay offs

[tropic nebula]

You mean when a back log clears, and the code is clean, they just hang onto people? Thats not a business, thats a charity. When theres less/no work to be done, people get laid off. Work ramps up, so does hiring. Thats why game coders live in the contractor phase.

Hard to stay "needed"

EHG is a small fish in a big pond, rather them just make it. They can't keep anyone employeed if they can't keep the lights on.

[shut quiver]

No i mean moving forward number of contractors required will also decrease. I think thats what they meant when they said "affects the jobs of devs"

[tropic nebula]

Ya, thats just the industry

When I was a kid, dozens of people worked at the mcdonalds counter

now its maybe 3

Tech pushes progress, because it pushed profit

in the end, capitalism wins

[shut quiver]

Tbf, hourly wage at McD might have remained the same since u were a kid to date, that could also be a factor xD

[obtuse bay]

so true

[tropic nebula]

Doing the boomer thing like my grandparents did and just refused to learn the new "Thinking boxes" left them hosed asking for me to fix their "Link-sky-box"

They essentially lived the last half of their life dependent on someone else to help them navigate the world.

[obtuse bay]

this is why you are engineer, right?

[tropic nebula]

lol

ya, basically

Now this new phase, is AI. It just starting, but its ramping.

People who are doing the boomer thing saying "AI IS THA DEVIL"

are just gonna be asking how to open their house in 20 years

[tropic nebula]

IDK, i think minimum when i was that age was 5.75

I'm pretty old

It like 16 or 17 now, and at places like that its 20 i think

[obtuse bay]

you could also buy more things with better quality

[tropic nebula]

omg yes

man the 80s and 90s were lit

[coarse swallow]

So I'm going to answer this with complete transparency. I'm a Community Manager rather than a dev. What this means is that I intake the feedback, and pass it to the dev team. I don't "personally" get to act on any feedback.

As a CM, personally we accept along along with the position, a certain amount of abuse - it takes a particular personality to be a CM, or moderator. I can't comment on any incident; However, I would say the hardest thing for me to hear is individuals claiming I don't care about about the game (I have over 9k hours played in personal time).

As far as the impact, these kinds of comments can have pretty substantial impacts on morale, and that's part of our job as CM's is to act as a buffer for the dev team - to provide the facts, and filter the emotions.. Since we act as a buffer, we as CM's listen to everything, if we respond or not

I'm sorry I can't comment to the dev side of feedback, as I don't want to speak for the team without referring to them (which is currently the middle of the night for them)

[tropic nebula]

I would think, back from my old days at THQ when they were still in California, the devs avoid this channel like the plague.

I would

[obtuse bay]

morale support is always important ❤️

[obtuse bay]

I would too xD

imagine working good on something to hear bad things about it

[tropic nebula]

You could cure cancer, someone would complain. Its the nature of society

[obtuse bay]

I wonder now, If you are helping other devs, who's appreciating you?

[silk wolf]

I didnt think about that, but i guess it makes sense, i also knew that most game had CM's. Makes sense to have them filter thou. Thanks for answering btw. As someone who plays games to enjoy them, the massive negativity in gaming communities is draining, so i generaly dont engage. But i cant imagine how it is for people who makes the games. I remember there was a CM who even quit after alot of shit in the Destiny community.

[tropic nebula]

Theres always a wage amount someone is willing take for dealing with idiots.

LOL

[obtuse bay]

have you been here when news out? you shouldve seen the people

[silk wolf]

I think that you also gotta know when and when not to engage. I mean alot of negative shit being said is just things you cant possibly know or whataboutism.

[tropic nebula]

ya, i saw it.

I was writing my own news article on it.

Most people type angry, not educated

but you can sense they have the right idea, but really suck at using words

[obtuse bay]

I can feel some people can get angry because they really love the game and they don't want it to become AI slop or dead game
but it's difficult to understand some people who comes here for just hating (they could spend their time on better things lol)

[silk wolf]

i think sitting in gaming communities and being angry is the wrong idea. Playing games is the right idea, if thats what you are into - ofc. if you dont like the game, play something else. (i am not saying feedback, or not agreeing with what a company does is not ok to do)

[tropic nebula]

Im gonna go out on a limb, and say vast majority of the ramble hate came from a specific age group that grew up behind iPads and never knew team sports.

[obtuse bay]

I will say, most of them were playing poe and they didnt care about le lol

[tropic nebula]

same thing

KEKW

[silk wolf]

Yes, i would not want that for any game. I am just not sure if being angry and complaning is the right approach. I mean if i had a girlfriend i dont want her to cheat on me, but all the time i put into being afraid of that, i could have spent enjoying what i have at this time

[obtuse bay]

at least its more peaceful for now

[tropic nebula]

I pm u Vulj

[main frigate]

🤔 Catch an unsleepy Kain?!

[coarse swallow]

Haha, yes, I do have a bit of insomnia, and can't help but checking in

[ruby python]

challenge accepted

[silk wolf]

I dont think so. I remember atleast there being negative gaming communties atleast 8 years ago.

[obtuse bay]

thanks for joining us ❤️ I kinda enjoyed and got insight lol

[main frigate]

Maybe you can watch this animation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI8NsYIyQ2A
Cats are cute, cats' animation is cure.

No idea how Kain play le 9000h+... I burnt out after 1500h.

[coarse swallow]

paladin4lyfe

[main frigate]

Paladin's fan, cool. I'm a fan of none.

[coarse swallow]

I've been playing a paladin since I was first introduced to the DnD class over 25 years ago now. I'm not changing now.

[exotic solar]

How you felt when paladin rework dropped? Did you know details before release?

[coarse swallow]

In my own personal opinion, Paladin went from "strong very specific builds" to "very strong in general".

This isn't a comment to EHG's stance, but mine personally that paladin in general is currently perhaps too strong.

I say personal stance not because EHG doesn't necessarily match, but I'm not able to check at this hour, and I hadn't previously confirmed.

[exotic solar]

I think i worded poorly. For us its just a patch notes and few teaser excitement. We have little to no idea then we learn everything at once and get excited. How was this process for you. Just want to know how its like on the other side of the coast.

[main frigate]

🤔 I'm curious about who's Kwan

A mysterious EHG member with a default avator on discord

[coarse swallow]

Ah, knowing things in advance can be absolute torture, haha. Thankfully that's somewhat diminished by being able to participate in regular internal playtests.

However, as a CM, this only has so much effect. As so much of our "care and concern" is on what the community thinks rather than ourselves. So it creates a lot of... Anticipation? Anxiety? Excitement? Can't think of, or perhaps the right word just doesn't exist, haha.

[exotic solar]

Thanks for answering.

[tropic nebula]

The type stays the same, they typically grow out of it

(HOPEFULLY)

[tropic nebula]

(insert MEME) "Look at me, I'm the Dungeon Master now."

[coarse swallow]

My all time favourite character I've ever played in DnD was a centaur thief. Having uninhibited climbing, and rappelling down on enemies for sneak attacks as an 800lb centaur was quite fun, though a bit off topic from LE, haha. (yes, I had to get pretty fancy to the logic as to how my character was pulling it off. My normal DM is logic oriented rather than rule oriented. - 5e. a large part of the fun was thinking how the DM was going to handle me =p)

[main frigate]

I'm dream at gaming in status like many pros here always but I find I can't love games in this level yet...

My brain can't think a thing in such a simple way...Long way to go

[tropic nebula]

NEEEEEEEEERD

[coarse swallow]

I accept it. No, I Embrace it. Anything for my DnD Campaign =p

[inner finch]

☕

[tropic nebula]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9U23SmUjWM

[main frigate]

Hey, we're the same species now. Bird avator with the same direction, at right

[proper sluice]

Guys, I even made a video to defend EHG choices, since I care about the game, even though I am a nobody. But, really, where is the non-political news? We need something to get excited about. I'm personally out of builds; anything viable for 500c has already been tested.
And I get that all these management decisions were already difficult, and time/resources consuming, and that managing the reaction from the community might have been and still is even harder... but there's a part of the community that doesn't care about how you monetize.
Please, give us something that is not "new classes and major expansion in a year from now".
I've literally spent the morning drafting Avatar on MTG ARENA (speaking of unhealthy monetization games) and that sucks. I liuterally don't know what to do in LE at the moment. 🥺
Might be a very good time to get some teaser news ☺️

[main frigate]

You need to find something to do at first because they still sleeping

[inner finch]

Your bird is angrier

[main frigate]

hhhhhhhhhhh

:)

Huge influence angry bird own.

[night marten]

the only proper response

[still cove]

What games besides D4 and PoE is LE similar too? Don't say Grim Dawn and TQ because they are not online.

[inner finch]

LE isnt similar to anything i know of

and by similar i mean how mechanics work, this kind of thing exists nowhere else

[severe socket]

They are, it's just peer-to-peer instead of server-authoritative.

One more thing I don't think I'll ever understand EHG for vehemently opposing.

Like, I get it, they'd have to overhaul their whole netcode to account for p2p play which, finance-wise, is not justifiable at this point.

Still, back in d2 days, we had singleplayer, LAN (p2p), and Bnet (server-auth at some point?).

[inner finch]

This isnt just net code, this is code code

[severe socket]

I know.

[inner finch]

The game essentially exists in 2 modes

[severe socket]

I specifically mentioned netcode because it's the prime target.

[karmic prairie]

both hero siege and torchlight admit that hero monetization is just not a good model

also funny that on the same day ehg made the announcment hero siege also made an announcment that they will abolish this monetization kek

[severe socket]

Some errors and missteps are only understood after experiencing them firsthand, I'm afraid.
My mindset right now is, "let them go through all the bumps on their own so they know better next time, if there is the next time to begin with".

[inner finch]

Some games like D3 and D4, at least for the PC client, dont even exist without the option to have every single action you make be a remote-connection action

You have to simulate a server (not that i ever done it hahahaha) just to get the most basic things, as basic as opening your inventory

RIP pserver community, you were good while you lasted

[severe socket]

Diablo franchise ended with d2LoD for me.

I never touched d3 onwards.

And the whole dildablo-immoral mess only reinforced that stance.

[inner finch]

That's something i wish i'd done

So my standards for combat responsiveness wouldn't be as impossibly high as they are now

It would take me 8 hours of blabbring to explain the beauty of intricate mechanics like having all attacks create shockwaves that interact with ragdolls and clothing, hit registration sync with animation, input queue system

[severe socket]

And it all differs from engine to engine, am I correct?

[inner finch]

vastly, yes

[severe socket]

I believe each dildablo game is built on their own engine?

[inner finch]

D3's engine, which is largely based on the warcraft 3 engine had its own things, D4's code borrowed A LOT from it, but included some additional physics based characteristics

[severe socket]

Or there's some sort of common ground to bounce off of?

[inner finch]

All attacks had visuals and technical sides to it, stats that were pulled from organized lists of strings

And all tooltips were using a system built to prevent typos and use real information to generate values

which ahem, prevents having false information being present in tooltips, ahem

Changing those values on the string itself would automatically update the tooltip, so you don't have to remember to manually do that

same goes for all mathematical calculations in tooltips

internal test tools included secret zones and test weapons, so devs can check how proc coefficients work, how chain effects and visual rope effects work on actors

say, you have a lightning visual that causes arcs on an enemy, make sure those scale properly with their dimentions

Imagine having to program all of it from parsing decrypted code to generate a simulated server....

[severe socket]

I can imagine that everything involved differs in quality vastly from studio to studio.

[willow sentinel]

Don't know what you are talking about
stares at int tooltip

[severe socket]

I know that actiblizz is a freaking mammoth on the market. Whereas EHG started off as a collective of gamers who dabbled in coding (iirc?).

[inner finch]

Blizzard have... their own secret language in code

which is definitely something strange

assets, actors, locations skills have different internal names

[severe socket]

Security through obscurity?

[inner finch]

Could be, could also be something they are just used to doing internally when developing

often times placeholder names for skills, items, classes just stay and kept

They are never replaced

But there's a lot of skill involved in developing code efficient enough to have stuff like actor AI (actor is the given name of a physical object, could be an enemy or any interactable piece of scenery)

There's a basic, quite binary decision tree to monsters where during combat they decide if they stay idle, do an animation, approach, or try to attack

These are some of the things you can easily spot between studios developing games like ARPGs, the way mobs interact with the environment, the players

How they move, what decisions they take, how a group of them can show differences in decision making

gameplaywise, this prevents a situation, say, where you pull 6-7 enemies at the same time, and after you CC them all in one go, they won't attack you at the same milisecond on recovery, downing you instantly

[severe socket]

Honestly, I'm horrified to even try to imagine the sheer mess LE's codebase is in right now.

[inner finch]

I wouldn't know, but some of the bugs indicate that its one hell of a Sisyphean task to fix stuff.

As a reminder - we still don't have cursor customization, as Mike claimed that if fixing it was easy it would have been done

[severe socket]

99 little bugs in the code...

...sigh.

[pure crow]

idk how hard im huffing on copium here but the post on reddit made me curious, the "roadmap" that was posted was not the roadmap that was being worked on for weeks right? Like will there be an updated one that actually has info be posted which they are still working on?

[severe socket]

I just take it as an image that tells us absolutely nothing concrete.

[pure crow]

the image tells absolutly nothing, like yes, s4 and s5 will come after s3 is just not info at all

[severe socket]

Harboring any expectations at this point is about as moot as it could be.

The whole sitch is a mess, frankly speaking.

[inner finch]

The whole post is a communication misstep and a PR disaster that could have been handled a million times better

[pure crow]

but its just so confusing with the roadmap like i don't get it

[severe socket]

Not their first time, if you count the PS5 "announcement" prior.

[pure crow]

it was delayed for weeks right?

the roadmap

[severe socket]

🤷‍♂️

[inner finch]

we had "roadmap soon" for about 3 weeks

and what we got is basically nothing

[pure crow]

yeah exactly but thats why the roadmap posted is so confusing

[inner finch]

Mike on a stream told us that they finalized the roadmap and it was up for review before release

We thought it had depth, complexity, lots of data

[pure crow]

surely that was just an emergancy one put one and not the one that mike was speak about?

again huffing copium here

[inner finch]

We know that a detailed post about upcoming features and mechanics is in the works

[severe socket]

It's kekworthy at best.

[inner finch]

And it will arrive sometime in the future

[night marten]

yeah. teaser trailer. and then hype week.

[still cove]

Yeah its hard to believe this is what they were laboring over for weeks, "crossing their t's and dotting their i's"

[turbid silo]

Good morning Travelers!

or day, or evening 😄

[pure crow]

yeah like, this is where my confusion was coming from

the other points i can understand but this one was just so weird

[inner finch]

we can speculate that there was a different one in the works, and something must have happened to it

[still cove]

Yeah, there must be some crazy things going on internally.

[severe socket]

Hiya.

[balmy arrow]

[main frigate]

It's Black Friday, I think you should on holiday today?

[turbid silo]

Not me, I'm working today 🙂

[inner finch]

lol

Kirra, Black Friday is not an official holiday

despite what shopping centers will tell you

[main frigate]

Oh Van is the person who on holiday I guess

[severe socket]

Black Friday = stampede

[austere dagger]

is anyone else havijg problems connecting to game serves? ive tried all sorts and nothings working

i dont normally have problems jsut today

[main frigate]

https://www.reddit.com/r/LastEpoch/comments/1p8p9pe/this_steam_top_review_for_the_game_is_just_sad/
A sad player need your cure.

[inner finch]

What do you expect Derrick to do there

[simple heart]

Dear Derricklauss
Fix the game + make magic money appear and finance the game with it + get new season today
Ty

[inner finch]

pretty much

[near apex]

I am probably a strange person and in the minority but I don't mind paying for entertainment. It needs some balance but, like, you pay for a book, pay for a movie why not a game? I even consider PoE voluntary subscription where every league I buy something -- totally justified given the amount of time I am playing. And this league I bought a corgi pet and it makes me smile every time I log in. So no. I don't mind at all.

[median perch]

2.8 hrs last two weeks / 4,198.8 hrs on record

I've been off LE addiction for a while now

[near apex]

I play LE a lot less but still, if the DLC is reasonably priced vs the hours of fun, no worries. I do wonder what it'll be though. If it's $10? Not a problem. If it's $30? That does require some justification. As a rule of thumb.

[main frigate]

lol

[south moat]

I highly doubt it'd be $30 when the game is that much

[main frigate]

Who know.

Only Judd's words can save the current case because that's what ruin everything.

[shut quiver]

I don't know how they mean to make this paradox class work so I wont presume and go too deep into it but the whole concept, the very foundation on which arpg games were built is, u pick a class and u play the game. At any time, u can pick any class and ROLE PLAY as that class. So the very idea of keeping that class behind a pay wall, at best goes against the concept of arpg and at worst is totally scummy. I don't mind paid expansions. But paid classes IMHO is a bad call

[near apex]

I am not that sophistacted 🙂

[main frigate]

I'm interested in which game types are you interested in except loot-based ARPG

[near apex]

Civ 6. Civ 7 sucks.

[shut quiver]

But just like u said, a lot of players will say 'if its only 5$ who cares, if its only 10$ who cares' and thats why companies keep doing this

[main frigate]

Such a pity that we can't know why Judd want to make paid class

[south moat]

But we know already.

The game needs to make money somehow and people aren't buying mtx (because they don't really look good and they don't make them for the popular skills for some reason)

[main frigate]

I guess another ways are here except mtx and paid class? I wonder why he chose paid class

[south moat]

Because people cried too hard about the possibility of a paid dlc when they already paid for the game and "they promised we'd get everything free forever"

[main frigate]

Paid dlc, paid class, mtx, sell copies, anything else for non p2w?

[south moat]

And even for this paid dlc character there was somebody saying he'll sue EHG because of "breach of contract"

[inner finch]

Its a combination of everything. Build people a playground, make sure there are enough rides, provide them with cosmetics, a sense of community, some competitive mechanics

[south moat]

The dlc is free if you already own the game...

[inner finch]

Also make sure the rides aren't broken

[main frigate]

yes. I just list all possibilites

update art assets for mtx are money-consuming so the risk is too high, this is the reason I can think

[inner finch]

There are people who their job is to make sure MTXs are built not just with purpose and intent, but also will make sure they will get sold

[simple heart]

What we know is that Judd wanted to sell the company for a confortable amount of 96millions dollars that could enable him to never work again ofc he probably didn't get the whole amount (and is this number even true?), it was the perfect moment to cash out after the success of 1.0 and 1.2 m. The company just has made big money 4 millions sell at 30dollars +mtx is more than 120millions dollars revenue.

But he probably had to make some promises to the buyer to get the maximum amount, nobody pays someone 96millions for a business if he doesn't think he can get much more. That's why just after Krafton bought EHG most of communication from EHG is about money.

[wispy mantle]

lmao the devs sold out and broke all promises nice one

[severe socket]

Yeah, we know.

[south moat]

Well yeah, no company invests in another out of the goodness of their heart
They will expect to make that money back

[wispy mantle]

bla bla they cashed out lets say it as it is and they don't care that the game is going down the drain as a result

[inner finch]

we know they broke their promises, yes

[wispy mantle]

disgraceful

[south moat]

It was either that or just stop making the game + shut it down

[wispy mantle]

well at least that would have had some integrity if they just shut it down

[cobalt fable]

rip last epoch?

[wispy mantle]

big rip

[south moat]

Ah yes, all companies just should shut down the moment they are even considering breaking their promises...

[calm jay]

I usually call for shutdown when they're pushing updates into a dwindling playerbase and can't deal with any problems and I don't think that's LE

[simple heart]

This what they are saying thats sure.
But every founder that hd decent part bought a new house with all that money.

[calm jay]

Otoh

[south moat]

And how do you know they bought new houses?

[wispy mantle]

how do you know they had no other options

[simple heart]

What do you do with 10 millions each?

[calm jay]

I wish I had so little going on I could join random discord servers to talk trash

A charmed life, that

[wispy mantle]

well obviously you have so little going on as you are here

[cobalt fable]

lets see, 0.2 they respected poe 2 league and delayed , and it was a sucess.
0.3 they didnt respect poe 2 league, and got destroyed, i call 0.3 the reason for the sell out

[calm jay]

Lmfao

[calm jay]

Did you call me clown and then delete it?

[willow sentinel]

I deleted it

[inner finch]

I don't mind people fairly criticize EHG, but understand that a holier than thou approach isn't good for anyone. We're in the same ARPG gaming industry whole, and pointing and laughing at someone getting drown in a pool while swimming in the same pool almost never ends in a positive note

[calm jay]

Oh, okay

[south moat]

he also reacted that way to my post earlier

[calm jay]

That's because he's just here to stir the pot

[wispy mantle]

yeah because why argue against the fact that they have broken their promises and cashed out

like at least be objective

[calm jay]

I guess PoE is hurting or something if we're being brigaded

[calm jay]

We know, what's next?

Like progress past that point

[wispy mantle]

brigaded brother I have been here much longer than you

nothing is next it is what it is

[calm jay]

Congrats, you're still out here doing nothing but running a diatribe. It's tired asf for anyone over 20

[wispy mantle]

a clown fiesta

[main frigate]

Current list for economy model:

Paid dlc, paid class, mtx, sell copies, work for another ip, subscriptions, game pass, sold company

[calm jay]

I'm sorry it's come to this for you.

[zenith wind]

haha ppl are still discussing it

[wispy mantle]

and god forbid someone voice their opinion about what the devs have done in a discord dedicated to discussion about the game

[calm jay]

You can do that in a single post

[wispy mantle]

and I can do it in multiple if I feel like it

[willow sentinel]

Unfortunately nothing much to stir the conversion away

[calm jay]

I don't get why it's always like a forty minute endeavour with you internet people

All to stay at the exact same point you started at

[karmic prairie]

Got your paradox boost yet?

[calm jay]

Well?

There ya go, lol

[simple heart]

Why clown reaction is allowed? Don't discord allow to chose which reaction are allowed onf the server?

[calm jay]

Krafton's no bueno and bigger acquisitions always come with a sacrifice, welcome. Hopefully the xpac isn't a wallet masher

[wispy mantle]

it will be but you believe whatever you wanna believe

[willow sentinel]

That's a good question

[calm jay]

Ok

[karmic prairie]

It will be , im still sad they didnt take my suggestion of putting ads on mana bar

[willow sentinel]

@wispy mantle last time

[calm jay]

We are pressing this man by watching and not just assuming everything is already torched

[dawn eagle]

Hello ! i just want to play a bit , i played last time in the early season with the " echo '" can someone tell me how far are we in the current season and when is the next one ?

[calm jay]

Next one is slated for new year, but I don't think there's a date

[willow sentinel]

We are a few months in, next season should be January

[simple heart]

3 month in the current no date for the next

[dawn eagle]

Thanks ! will wait a bit so ty*

[simple heart]

See you (hopefully soon)

[karmic prairie]

How is it 3 months tho. Didnt s3 start in august

[calm jay]

September, October, November

[south moat]

yes

[calm jay]

One, two, three

August doesn't get to be a full month in this count

[karmic prairie]

Potent

[calm jay]

It has been denied

[simple heart]

3 mont and 8 days sorry

[dawn eagle]

btw , does the game keep some cool features beetwin season ? i liked how you could farm for more precise gear in the weaver update i'm curious if there is permanent new feature in the game

[calm jay]

Probably an ok choice by now to wait for the next season

They do keep some, we don't(?) know if the s3 feature is hanging out. Seems like it would, but things are already pretty busy in fields with harbingers and now portals

[inner finch]

All seasonal themes and features so far stay, including S3

it might get a bit of a commonality reduction, to not overtake future seasons

[dawn eagle]

i see , let's see if another paladin build is getting my attention since i played only paladin

[karmic prairie]

Play necro instead, you stack more strength on it and also has 100% block ezzz

And astronomically more dps

[dawn eagle]

why it seems to be always necro to be busted x)

[karmic prairie]

1 necro=4 paladins

[coral valve]

ayo some problems with servers? Got dced 3 times in a row

[woven sentinel]

hey

hows it going everyone?

[main frigate]

You're like Derrick lol

[woven sentinel]

huh?

[inner finch]

A person, who asks how is it going

[woven sentinel]

so because i ask hows it going im like someone? lol okay 👍

[main frigate]

Just the same on greeting

[woven sentinel]

pretty sure ive said it multiple times?

[south moat]

You have

[real cedar]

all is well in this server I see

to be expected though

good job guys!

🫡

[severe socket]

😐

[real cedar]

well..

back to PoE 2 I go, enjoy your infighting fellas!

[inner finch]

i really dont get the joy people get from doing this

[acoustic palm]

discord pvp can be fun

[inner finch]

ill try and be more direct.

@real cedar mind giving context?

[acoustic palm]

it's content

[real cedar]

sure

I'm going to go play PoE2

while you guys continue arguing with each other

[inner finch]

Personally, i like the color blue

red likers just can't accept it

[acoustic palm]

nah, we are past arguing ,we accepted it

[real cedar]

you know who to blame for dividing the community

[turbid silo]

Let's keep the conversation friendly folks

[inner finch]

People who hop into this place to flame and tell us they are going other places to spend their time?

[sturdy hare]

I for one am looking forwward to see what they can do with more money and staff. I've gotten 2 years of play outta this game for like 50 bucks, I have no real reason to complain about anything, and we're gonna get at least 1 major expansion and 2 more seasons

I'm fine waiting to see how it goes

people act like they invested like stock or something

[real cedar]

maybe the people who caused the flaming in the first place

[acoustic palm]

yeah, gaming can be really cheap if you don't whale

a nice cheap hobby

[inner finch]

Still the same people, i know

This isn't a terminal, and an awful lot of people came in just to tell us they are leaving, like there's anything useful we can do with this information

This isn't EHG's first rodeo with a PR disaster

[real cedar]

true

well

good day to you bud

[woven sentinel]

go and enjoy paying for storage

[inner finch]

Have a blessed weekend

[real cedar]

yeah that sucks too, I guess we'll see who's strat works in the long run

[willow canopy]

people acting like all those CS people who invested in skins not realizing it wasn't a good idea to begin with.

[woven sentinel]

yep now look at em, they are sitting on millions in their inventory

[inner finch]

I wouldn't be quick to rail on payment for storage in game. I get where its coming from

but its always a question of value and enjoyment

[glad hound]

I think ppl who are a little upset are ppl who where promised "free future content" .. anyone know pricing on the paradox class?

[willow canopy]

you have to pay for bag expansion in GW2 should i burn that game down as well?

[woven sentinel]

the actual paradox classes wont be out until another 2 seasons, so i would assume season 5 we would know more

[glad hound]

Ok cool...

[inner finch]

We dont know anything about paradox classes besides being called paradox classes and containing different mechanics in some ways

[woven sentinel]

hey at least its not as bad as EFT, making people pay upwards of £200 for a pve only mode

[real cedar]

Any news on skill sigils or are those paid now too?

[inner finch]

No news on skill sigils

nothing else is claimed to have payment on it

[willow canopy]

oh damn thats true! didn;t even know about that damn.

[simple heart]

Yes there is news it won't be in season 4 as it was promised

[woven sentinel]

yep its insane

[real cedar]

my tinfoil theory is skill sigils are wrapped into this new paradox class

[glad hound]

Ngl as a long time player i was a little disappointed in the pay for new class .. but I will temper my thoughts until pricing comes out

[inner finch]

Practically speaking, we still dont know how Paradox specs will work like, but i imagine not like all other traditional classes

[woven sentinel]

urm diablo 4 with vessel of hatred? wasnt it £40 for spiritborn?

[glad hound]

Diablo 4 didnt make statements about free future content

[real cedar]

yeah more arpgs should copy diablo 4 kek

[glad hound]

And I dont play d4 anymore bc this game is superior in most ways

[willow sentinel]

They will be free but not for s4

[woven sentinel]

oryboss(butchered name i know) is free though?

[real cedar]

cool can't wait to see them in 2027

[willow sentinel]

Wrong

[real cedar]

my bad, I'll go read the in depth roadmap again

[willow sentinel]

Don't forget your microscope

[inner finch]

This is a little on EHG

[real cedar]

it's all on them

[inner finch]

They left... a little too much for speculation

[willow sentinel]

Totally

I am not sure I would call that a road map, maybe a road sign

[simple heart]

For me it is not the paid class that bother me ( I think it is a minefield but i don't bother much about not playing it)
It is that the game is not finished (campaign, 3 masteries, load of very ancient not corrected bugs and the balance is worse each season) .
To speak about expansion when what was promised for 1.0 is not quite finished bother me.

And this communication is awful they would want to get burned they shouldn't have done anything different.

[inner finch]

Seasons 4 and 5 ahead

[woven sentinel]

road teaser

[willow sentinel]

Expension - > this way
You will find s4 and s5 on the way

[simple heart]

Scent of a path by EHG

[chilly ember]

it’s probably an overcorrection to them revealing way too much on the last roadmap and nearly none of it happening in the order that they planned

[woven sentinel]

totally get your point on that, i cant agree or disagree as i only joined in season 3 so cant comment on past seasons and the balancing.

[pure dawn]

They are called paradox classes now, keep up old man

[inner finch]

Yes, but we know more about Season 4 than they are letting us, considering all leaks and confirmations

So what ended up happening is that it could have included those in bullet points - but it doesnt

[chilly ember]

like i said, an overcorrection

[glad hound]

Hey, playing since late 2019 and EHG has been amazing... Definitely got more than my money worth with this game. They have taken a few missteps since hard launch to public

Tbh

[inner finch]

LE has 2 insane recoveries when i thought the game would be done for, i wanna see if we're going to count to 3 next year

[woven sentinel]

wonder if derrick is still lurking 😛 i see you derrick

[glad hound]

Error 64 or what ever it was... was rough for sure

[simple heart]

There was very few teaser, on s4 just a few blade dancer passive, and fire aura change and that is all.
And i hope the BD reworks will at last correct the unplayable dancing strike animation. I want to play it since 2019 but they won't allow it.

[woven sentinel]

whats this?

[glad hound]

Server stress at launch ..lots of ppl couldn't play ..lots of ppl very mad

[woven sentinel]

ah

[glad hound]

They handled it well in my opinion

[simple heart]

Yes it last 10 full days and half of these people never cam back. I bring a few friends back them they just bought the game and never played it.

[glad hound]

I have love for ehg......but still mad about a class I will have to pay for. .. if they didnt promise free future content this wouldn't be an issue in my eyes

It was the false promise ...at least that is why I was shocked when I read about it this morning in the. News

[woven sentinel]

again, it wont be a requirement for to buy the class in order to do seasonal content?

im pretty sure it was Derrick who responded to me with a link to his reddit post when i mentioned about the balancing, they gonna balance it to where its not so op that its p2w

[glad hound]

I think you are missing the point re read my post u responded to

[simple heart]

They can't win that.
People will both together says it too OP and the rest too weak.
It is just a huge trap they make for themselves.

[woven sentinel]

again ur mad about a class "YOU HAVE" to pay for, saying i will have to pay for is making it sound like they are locking out the seasonal content untill you buy this dlc. its an additional optional package you can pay for. and yes i see your post about saying upcoming free content. but the oryboss is free

[willow canopy]

if they finish out the story and keep fine tuning and balance things I'll be happy, but they got to make money in the mean time :\

[glad hound]

None of that is what I said

Lol

[simple heart]

Fine tuning and balance is clearly not something they try to achieve though.

[brittle fjord]

How much EHP should I be aiming for to be able to face tank all of Uberoths attacks?

[woven sentinel]

re read what u put but still mad about a class i will have to pay for

no one is making you buy it

[inner finch]

its 100% justifiable to hate game content gated behind a paywall.

[glad hound]

Yes, based on a premise that all future content was going g to be free

[deep basin]

anyone have any idea what the paradox classes might be?

[woven sentinel]

not out until season 6 i believe, so nothing yet

[inner finch]

I can only assume, based on the name and the theme that Paradox classes might be a sort of mix and match type of specs

[deep basin]

that would be interesting

[woven sentinel]

oo like the wayfearer from dragons dogma 2?

[inner finch]

Roll a clip of all the posts of me suggesting a seasonal mechanic of dedicating a slot or two on the skillbar for skills from other classes

[willow sentinel]

It will be the same class but with different element > necrotic Paladin, cold forge Guard

Trust

[inner finch]

Sounds like it, yeah

That's essentially the Paradox

[deep basin]

you had me at necrotic paladin

[woven sentinel]

time to get ur wallet out 😄

[inner finch]

To most of us - this payment would mean skipping dinner

but this isnt about having to pay, its about why you have to pay

[glad hound]

Monetized gatekeeping sucks

[magic vector]

i hope they make bare minumum with this

and this circus is closed

once and for all

[glad hound]

Monetizing cosmetics is one thing ... monetizing access to a class is another. Imo

Based on their prior spoken words and promises

[woven sentinel]

hasnt mutliple games done this though?

[glad hound]

Other games didnt promise "free future content" that's is where most ppl are upset I feel

[woven sentinel]

didnt escape from tarkov promise PVE mode will be free then turn back on their word and make it a £200 dlc?

[inner finch]

To me, there's a harsher promise EHG can break - removing always and forever offline

Technically, its already broken since its not up to them anymore

[real cedar]

yeah because all it takes is 'paid class is meta because it's expected' and if you throw a race to first or something similar into the equation everyone will be screaming p2w

because it would be

[glad hound]

I dont support tarkov ...I have financially and publicly supported ehg and this game..

[woven sentinel]

didnt destiny 2 say the last 2 dlcs will be free but thenturn around and make people pay £40 for a 3 month season??

[glad hound]

That's why I am upset about this upcoming issue

[inner finch]

That's one of the reasons, yeah

[glad hound]

Could cate less about what other games or developers do

[woven sentinel]

you said other games didnt say free updates, im just stating games which publicly said this mode etc will be free then turn they back on it

then dont spit out saying other games didnt promise free shit then

[real cedar]

angy sin

grrrr

[glad hound]

Lol, I have a feeling you are young and anger easily. I will no longer converse with you

[woven sentinel]

not angry , just stating facts when people make claims and then they go oh dont care about other developers

[real cedar]

bro he wasn't even being rude, he gave his opinion and you started bouncing on it over it lol

[woven sentinel]

i wasnt being rude either, he made a claim other games didnt promise free content and i stated facts back

[simple heart]

Paradox class description : the bow melee damage dealer, the spell caster using a mace, and throwing attack which hitsdoes dot instead (that can crit) but put ailments that hit and don't crit, the fire skill that frozen, the cold hit that use spreading flame.

[woven sentinel]

only got rude when he said dont care about other developers when he didnt like the fact i made a point about other developers promising free modes and turning their back on it

[inner finch]

This might be on me, going a little far with my Falconer buff suggestions, suggesting it (the falcon) should throw toxic flasks

[woven sentinel]

thought acid was toxic? or am i wrong on that?

[inner finch]

The suggestion was that the Falcon would throw em

[woven sentinel]

but it throws acid flasks? i could be completly wrong lol

[brittle fjord]

Nothing is being gatekept, also that's just life

[real cedar]

did you guys see that grim dawns new expansion will be half the size of the base game

[simple heart]

Nice

[glacial anvil]

where can i complain that new classes will pay to get?

[woven sentinel]

never heard of that game tbh

[simple heart]

Anywhere

[glad hound]

Paying for a class is the definition of gatekeeping @brittle fjord

[glacial anvil]

why new classes cost money wtf??

I STILL dont own necro in d3

[brittle fjord]

Grim Dawn? Amazing ARPG but it's single player so no seasonal resets which can be a good or bad thing depending

[simple heart]

Because it cost money to produce

[real cedar]

the new class will allow you to transform in to beast forms apparently (in Grim Dawns new expansion btw)

[glacial anvil]

i payed 30-40$ for it

[simple heart]

Yes but inflation

[woven sentinel]

ah may have to check it out

[brittle fjord]

Hobbies aren't cheap but gaming is still one of the cheaper hobbies out there

[woven sentinel]

so u never brought a dlc for a game you ever played for?

[glacial anvil]

god damn i didnt expect people to protect that here

[glad hound]

Its funny

[glacial anvil]

i thought its like 100% agreed it sucked

[simple heart]

Nah we don't protect.
It sucks.

[glad hound]

I agree with you it sucks

[real cedar]

to be clear, it has online co-op it just isn't a live service game lol the third expansion was never supposed to happen, they just felt like it I guess

[simple heart]

Rich people like to gatekeep the game we like.

They want its all for themselves

[brittle fjord]

It sucks but also life sucks sometimes, either buy it or don't. You can still play the expansion free.

[woven sentinel]

facts

[simple heart]

The good thing is when life hurt we can make a rant and feel better.

[woven sentinel]

lmao this reminds me of eft and their bs movement lol

[brittle fjord]

It's like complaining when you go to a coffee shop that the doughnut doesn't come with your coffee as you already paid £5 for your coffee.

[simple heart]

Yes when the big announcement down the road said 5 for both.

[brittle fjord]

I get people being annoying about EHG going back on what they said, but what they said they said like 8 years ago give or take. A lot of happened since then.

[glad hound]

No, it like the coffee shoppe offered you both for $5 and you only get the coffee and say eff you on the donut

[brittle fjord]

But being annoyed you have to pay for a DLC is weird

[acoustic palm]

if LE has the courage to ask you to vote it on steam awards, we should all have the courage to ask our crushes out

[exotic solar]

Problem is not EHG needing money it is Krafton needing money

[brittle fjord]

You should have that courage regardless XD

[acoustic palm]

she can say worse than no tho

[brittle fjord]

EHG 100% need the money, they mismanaged the game and bled money as a result

[simple heart]

Lol Judd sell for money 100% his decision.

[brittle fjord]

For me "yes" is way scarier XD

[real cedar]

and that's our responsibility how?

[acoustic palm]

"I never expect to go this far, what now"

[brittle fjord]

It not our responsibility but it's now our problem

Again, life sucks sometimes

[main frigate]

I'm single and not interested in dating :)

[exotic solar]

Krafton own them now. Dont know inner working but i assume when they come up with no roadmap but paid class announcement they have been told to announce that.

[woven sentinel]

so are you happy about that grim game making a dlc half the size of the game? or whatever it was u said

[acoustic palm]

Understandable

[novel depot]

This is idiotic logic; you can justify anything this way. P2W?. Broken promises? A hundred dollars for a game? Poor optimization? Microtransactions in a paid game? Yes it sucks. It sucks but also life sucks sometimes, either buy it or don't. I wish the developers to quit and move to ggg

[brittle fjord]

Companies like Krafton usually don't interfere much, they just put money into everything and some make money and others lose money.

[acoustic palm]

I mean, of course, not like they are doing things on their own, I saw some EHG saying that Krafton is their partners, but they are their owners on paper.

[woven sentinel]

you just sounded out every single call of duty game there

[real cedar]

grim dawn does not have MTX and it's a one time purchase game that has been completed for a decade

over a decade

[acoustic palm]

Grim Dawn iwll have an expansion too

But it's a single player game tho

[real cedar]

it's had two

with a third on its way

[acoustic palm]

I mean a new one soon

[brittle fjord]

Well yeah, if a product is bad the best way you can get your point across is to not buy it.

[acoustic palm]

Yeah yeah.

[glad hound]

I've always wanted to try grim dawn

[brittle fjord]

You can cry here all you like but if you still buy it then what do they care?

[acoustic palm]

Then company will say that they do not have money and add more pay to play content

[glad hound]

I won't buy it .. lol

[brittle fjord]

Me neither

[exotic solar]

because there is now bigger entry fee to game

[glad hound]

And will miss out on new class

[brittle fjord]

Not true

The entry fee is exactly the same

[acoustic palm]

Also, remember that expansion is free only for old players, new people have to pay it too. So new players have it worse

[brittle fjord]

New players get it when they buy the game

[woven sentinel]

built into the game cost?

[exotic solar]

if you wanted to try game after xpac release you probably need to pay around 50-60 dolars at minimum

[real cedar]

iirc the people who made titan quest made it after starting a new studio

[brittle fjord]

So it's basically free for them too unless they are upping the price of the game

[woven sentinel]

they will slightly from what i read

[exotic solar]

They are upping

[acoustic palm]

They didn't say that in the reddit post. I love that they do not say these things officially, but you have to dig that into a god forsaken reddit, very proffesional.

[woven sentinel]

on their forum, if u decided to go and actually click into it and read it

[novel depot]

Haha, that's true. But they're the market leader in first-person shooters (at least for now), and unfortunately, they can afford it more than others, while ehg can't

[acoustic palm]

Yeah, but what about steam, the place where people actually buy the game on.

[woven sentinel]

ps5 and new players, so both

[acoustic palm]

I don't buy their game from reddit, or their forum.

[woven sentinel]

go and read their forum post and come back

[woven sentinel]

and the games are still shit

[acoustic palm]

The one we’ve heard the most is simple: “Will the Last Epoch: Orobyss expansion be free for existing players?” The answer is Yes. Anyone on PC who owns Last Epoch before the launch of the Orobyss expansion will receive the expansion as a free update. New players and PlayStation 5 players will be purchasing Last Epoch, all of its seasonal content, and the Orobyss expansion as one updated purchase.

It'v obvious that the updated purchase will be a different price, since it's called updated purchase

If they wanted to do otherwise they would just state that the expansion will be free for everyone.

You would want to show off with that, a selling point

[woven sentinel]

but we dont know what that updated price might be yet, thats where people are angry, it might be up by $10 or even $40 we dont know

[acoustic palm]

Yeah, true. But that;s on EHG too, they just announced a tax increase as a road map, they could just not do this until they have complete news.

Their post did nothing but make us doom. It didn't bring any news.

[woven sentinel]

but i got a feeling they will have it at a discounted price for new players anyways game is what £20-30?

[exotic solar]

My point stands still. Bigger entry fee probably means less new players

[acoustic palm]

We will have 2 seasons*

-# subject of change

That's all the news aside that we will have to pay more

And that they are hiring

[real cedar]

idk if there's really a probably to it lol

[spring marten]

And here I thought they were cool

[exotic solar]

I am being generous

[woven sentinel]

depends how much bigger it is, if its over £50 then yeah i can see people not coming

[real cedar]

the steam reviews are all mostly negative rn too which won't bring in new players either

[exotic solar]

and around that time poe2 will go f2p

[woven sentinel]

yep but then when it does f2p i can see people moaning about the paid stashes

[exotic solar]

still cheaper than LE

[woven sentinel]

unless they completely make it all free

[exotic solar]

and that without xpac and class

[acoustic palm]

it is better to offer a game for free and ask 30 euro for stashes

or make the game cost 30 euro and give stashes for free ?

the freedom of choice

[woven sentinel]

arent you currently paying 30 euro for game ontop of stashes?

[exotic solar]

No you get points worth of 30$

[acoustic palm]

if you buy poe 2, you also get 300 points that can get you stashes, you also get mtx

also poe 1 stashes and poe 2 stashes are shared, so the points I bought 15 years ago, are still used today

damn, i'm playing arpg for 15 years, i'm getting old

[spring marten]

You guys think they will listen to the feedback?

[real cedar]

probably not, they probably don't have choice

[woven sentinel]

haha

[acoustic palm]

The good news, EHG is looking for a new creative director, a new lead level designer and many new leadership positions

So maybe the new guys will do a good change

[woven sentinel]

so u never know yet, it might get reversed?

[acoustic palm]

how i'm supposed to know, i'm just a regular pepega, like you

its their company, we are just customers

[woven sentinel]

exactly, the paradox is coming out in 2026 so a lot can change yet

[exotic solar]

Sadly no they are owned by parent company. These people are just paid workers not decision maker on this stuff

[acoustic palm]

yeah, they gave away their decision making when they sold the company ofc

[acoustic palm]

luckily, they said nothing about that class, so it can be everything they want

[spring marten]

Really disappointed...

[woven sentinel]

again, dont know too much about LE and their history as only joined in season 3

[acoustic palm]

Until now LE was not owned by anyone, okay, tencent only 20%

they claimed that the game is not profitable and that they had to do this to secure a future for the game, they sold the company entirely to krafton, it owns them 100%

KRAFTON acquired 100 percent of Eleventh Hour Games’ shares. The acquisition amount includes an initial consideration of USD 96 million

[woven sentinel]

so am i correct in saying they made claims back when no one owned them saying all dlcs will be free, shit hit the fan and to save the game had to sell to a company now that company wants to charge?

[acoustic palm]

More or less, yes. The game firsly founded itself via kickstarter.

[exotic solar]

yes

[woven sentinel]

thats business lmao

[acoustic palm]

But the promises/words have no legal binding, sure it is something nice to follow, but a post on reddit doesn't legal bind them on anything.

[willow sentinel]

I mean, its a bit disappointing that they have to go back on their word. But live service game being developed over years need to make income over time.

[exotic solar]

An aspirant can afford to be promising. An emperor must keep those promises.

[woven sentinel]

but if it wasnt legally binding they dont have to stick to their word?

[willow sentinel]

Oops, didn't see I was that late in the convo

[acoustic palm]

That's what I sort of like about Tencent, if you bring them cash, they do not care about you. And GGG has a profit margin of 35% while developing POE 2. (Some gent guided me here how to find their papers)

[woven sentinel]

your all good vlad

[acoustic palm]

While Krafton from the past games, look more eager to ... make their money back.

[cursive mortar]

So i stopped playing because of the not finished story and MANY bugged skills etc

now i turn around and we get AI and paid classes? what happened

[woven sentinel]

ngl @acoustic palm this makes the arguments about people being mad about something 8 years ago even more funnier

[acoustic palm]

Every company uses AI, its 2025. But the question if we are getting generative AI or not.

Because getting generative AI would be a shame.

[woven sentinel]

they did say they not doing ai i believe in their forum?

[exotic solar]

Their word made people support them on kickstarter or/and buy supporter packs. Now they are backing on what they promised there is no line that they cant cross.

[acoustic palm]

Yeah, people can be mad, but hey, in the grand scheme of things it was a post on reddit, nothing legal binding. It's same way as I promise you guys 1k euro if you talk to me tomorrow.

[inner finch]

Generative AI might be my quickest make or break. I know im in the minority, but if an EHG dev would admit to me that some art in the game is AI gen it would make things a lot easier for me

[cursive mortar]

but the campaign is finished?

[acoustic palm]

I think they have to disclose if they use (de)generative ai on steam right?

[woven sentinel]

urm escape from tarkov? promised pve when game comes out of beta would be free, now they charging upwards of £200?

[exotic solar]

xD

[acoustic palm]

nope

[cursive mortar]

wat

[coarse swallow]

There is no AI art in Last Epoch

[inner finch]

I hope it will remain like that for as long as possible. Thanks Kain

[acoustic palm]

Do you saw that shop icons done by BF6 ? That was a disgrace and a spit in the face.

I hope EHG never does that.

[woven sentinel]

nope never seen that

[inner finch]

That was COD BO7, did BF6 also do that?

[sturdy hare]

LE would probably not be onboarding a bunch of new staff if they were planning to just start using AI all over the place

kinda defeats the point

[exotic solar]

dont know about that but LE dont have the player base to pull that kind of stuff

[acoustic palm]

my bad, black ops 7 , not bf6

sent you a dm since the discord doesn't allow pics

[woven sentinel]

yep when escape from tarkov initally came out they said pve mode is in works and when game is fully released they will release it free, now its only free for those who initally paid the £100+ bundles. if you was to get the game now it will cost u £200 for a decent stash, pve mode and basically everything they initally promised

[willow sentinel]

#📚┃off-topic should allow

[acoustic palm]

#📚┃off-topic message here

[willow sentinel]

I am kinda interested

[acoustic palm]

basically they made medieval pics with AI in a futuristic shooter

[exotic solar]

must be shitty for them too

[woven sentinel]

yep indeed. but people still brought it which is insane.

[acoustic palm]

so yeah, lets hope that the new blood will get LE in the right direction

[woven sentinel]

i have dms on message requests due to bots/scammers, so i dont see notifications

[acoustic palm]

competition between arpgs is always good

[exotic solar]

Sadly very different demographic. People who play arpgs are generally older and more sensitive to this kind of stuff.

[acoustic palm]

Damn, dissing us like this

[woven sentinel]

im only 30, u saying im old? lol

because i bloody feel it

[acoustic palm]

TBF, I played RF last league in poe and got to 40/40 like that

[exotic solar]

You being here and having this conversation about games future proves what i am saying

[cursive mortar]

well i dont really care what happens NGL
this goes onto the sellout pile
we had a good run bois

[proper sluice]

Guys, I was in the shower, scratching my flamingo, and I finally got it. I understood. The ultimate plan is in motion.
As Robert Cialdini said, "there's no such thing as bad publicity".
Now everybody in the AARPG community has their eyes on Last Epoch.
Imagine that season 4 drops, and we got everybody, literally everybody, trying it out after all this fuss, because they all want to know... after all this drama, all this discussion. The Roadmap increased discontent and mystery. And then BANG. Season 4 drops, and, BANG AGAIN, it's insane. Everybody, suddenly, has to hide their tomatoes and stones that they were ready to throw. Now even the guy who played Torchlight Infinite came to try the game, and it's insane. GG everybody, community is back.
That's the plan.
(Just having a little fun here)

[woven sentinel]

pretty simple google search tbh lol plus i remembered friends moaning about eft so thats why its stuck in my head, they never shut up about it

[inner finch]

I stopped at flamingo

[woven sentinel]

i stopped after shower

[acoustic palm]

I've read it all and it's a good pasta

[exotic solar]

That even proves further.

[woven sentinel]

i just have a good memory lol

[acoustic palm]

but yeah, the last league in poe, the tree tree was pretty much the web we had in 1.2

they yoinked our content

[woven sentinel]

copy right infringement?

[acoustic palm]

patent, lets gooo

we go nintedo way

[exotic solar]

make money of law suits and make class free

genious

[woven sentinel]

like their pokemon vs that bloody game (forgot its name)

[acoustic palm]

palworld

[woven sentinel]

thats it

how did that lawsuit go?

[acoustic palm]

well palworld still sold 20m copies or something, that shows how much money nintendo could have made if they did a pc game

[woven sentinel]

i think they sold all that because u could harm ur own pals lol

[acoustic palm]

palworld was forced to replae balls with cubes and remove some flying mounts that could also be used on ground

or idk, they removed the 3 times struggle the ball had that was like in pokemon

[woven sentinel]

ah , yeah when i heard that lawsuit i just laughed because nintendo saw how much money they made and got salty

[acoustic palm]

funny how pokemon za costed like 20m or something, quite cheap from them

[inner finch]

small team, liveable salaries

[woven sentinel]

but they should of ported their games onto steam and make bank like god of war did

[acoustic palm]

i think nintendo has an old belief that pc is bad or something

so they never touched it

[inner finch]

Their belief is that their console sales are good

[woven sentinel]

lmao, didnt god of war make $107mil in sales just from pc?

pretty sure out of all the playstation ported games and their sales cost of like 800+mil , god of war was like 15% of its sales

[acoustic palm]

i'm waiting for Ghost of Yotei on pc, it's crazy that the game costed only 60m and they pretty much made 4 times that money till now

Damn, the shortcut for that game got flagged

[woven sentinel]

now that imported onto pc will be INSANE

[acoustic palm]

Admins were warned about my activity.

They are coming to me

[acoustic palm]

it will, they like money, its free money

i mean, companies are made to make money, believe it or not

[woven sentinel]

well didnt the other ghost game go onto pc? ghost of tisiami (spelt incorrectly i know lol)

[acoustic palm]

it did, tsushima

[woven sentinel]

^^ thats it

[acoustic palm]

it sold like 1m of copies on pc or something, not shabby, so basically they covered their dev cost just with pc release

crazy to me that LE costed more to make so far than Ghost of Tsushima

[woven sentinel]

gotta think of all the trees, different combos, all the different monolith levels etc

[acoustic palm]

Sure, comparing a live game to a single player game is not fair, but still.

Meanwhile you have giants like ubisoft that have 20k employees and they spend like 1 billion just with that.

[woven sentinel]

and still make shit games lol

[acoustic palm]

they have to make good games now, they got a 1.5 b loan from tencent

[normal hound]

Last Epoch should have been a single player ARPG with paid DLCs

[acoustic palm]

making games is not THAT easy

[acoustic palm]

Pretty much, since right now the game is pretty much single player with chat

[exotic solar]

Dont forget all the rubber banding. Immersive time travel baked in game

[acoustic palm]

People love the idea of being able to play with other players, while playing solo lol

[copper sorrel]

People love alot

[stable forum]

I play with a buddy all the time lol

[copper sorrel]

Atleast i think that. Idk if humans love more than all other species

[normal hound]

my top 3 ARPGs arent even online (though have a multiplayer component) I think they should look at Grimm Dawn for how to run a good ARPG for a small community

[acoustic palm]

You never saw 2 capybaras booping their snoots

[copper sorrel]

Yea, but would they die for eachother?

[normal hound]

I don't like talking to people when I game haha. If im gaming leave me the heck alone

[acoustic palm]

Understandable

[copper sorrel]

Hated raiding in wow bc of this. I had to play an 18 year old at 12 years old, because my raidguild only took adults.

[normal hound]

Just deepen your voice ez

[acoustic palm]

There are voice changers now

[copper sorrel]

Thats a good idea, but i was too scared to fail my disguise, so i never talked and made chatmacros for important stuff

[acoustic palm]

Some games release with built-in voice changes for the catfish experience

[normal hound]

what game does that?

[steep shore]

Good thing almost everyone in WoW is 40+ at this point :D

[exotic solar]

femboy simulator 2025?

[normal hound]

im sorry what

actually no nevermind

[copper sorrel]

Yep, at 40 to play wow still, idk where they get their willpower from. Takes alot of skill

[normal hound]

I have people in my guild who are in there 50s and raiding... its insane

[copper sorrel]

I mean it in the way, that its something very beautiful to be able to enjoy something.

[steep shore]

much like any game, be it arpg like poe, diablo, last epoch etc. or mmo or anything.

[normal hound]

Ive nevermet a gamer who actually enjoys games 😉

[steep shore]

But least I can get a own house in WoW next week unlike in real life :D

[copper sorrel]

I think the older we get, the more nostalgia Hits, as we get to the fields of 70+ where memory loss stuff takes effect.

Ofc on average, not for everyone.

[normal hound]

did you also buy the degenerate edition where you get 3 days early access like me

[copper sorrel]

We can play again like a little clueless goblin

[normal hound]

Im not even 30 yet so I still got time to be jaded until I mellow out and start loving games haha

[steep shore]

Well, with WoW gold yes. Though I am quite bit poorer in-game now. :) Running out of that WoD/Legion gold, heh.

[woven sentinel]

u will be joining the 30 club when?

[normal hound]

Next year

[copper sorrel]

Oh, im being jaded rn. Maybe i should play some games

[normal hound]

I came in BFA so I missed that ship

[woven sentinel]

we will have our arms open wide with aching backs waiting for you

[steep shore]

Mostly I wanted the cool mounts and transmogs from the more expensive editions. :p

[normal hound]

My back is already aching thinking about it

[woven sentinel]

one of us, one of us, one of us

[normal hound]

That's how they get you.

[copper sorrel]

I heard alot of these mountskins are poorly made - basically copied

I mean alot of buyable stuff

[steep shore]

Professions have been profitable, especially since DF. I know couple people who made millions. Personally I find the new profession system too convulted so I didn't engage much.

[acoustic palm]

where winds meet has that

[steep shore]

There are good and bad mounts. Many mounts share skeletons and animation rigs for obvious reasons but there are lot of very cool mount. I personally really like the void and light dragonhawks which came with the more expensive editions of Midnight.

[copper sorrel]

Ive heard that title couple times now. Is there some promotion going on?

[acoustic palm]

Hate me, perhaps, but When I was playing wow. I was doing doing 1 gdkp which was giving enough good to buy sub for months

[acoustic palm]

it's a free to play gacha game with many predatory mechanics

[copper sorrel]

Nice, that something could satisfy you! It doesnt matter if its blizzard or any other entity

[steep shore]

GDKP were not a thing on the server I played during vanilla/tbc and most of Wrath. I didn't participate in them as I prefer to raid with the guild.

[acoustic palm]

Same with the guild part

[copper sorrel]

Oh uff. Away with predatory mechanics!

[acoustic palm]

Like they have FOMO events, many menus, many notifications, energy system that restricts the amount of loot, gacha (ofc), loot boxes

[copper sorrel]

Or if its the real predator from the movie with Schwarzenegger he can stay

[acoustic palm]

AI trasnaltion, AI npcs

[copper sorrel]

Thats crazy how wide ai is used already. Feels to me the gaming industry is especially "hit" with this

Like do they test ai in gaming industry, before releasing it broader?

[normal hound]

oh yeah that AI NPC system is interesting? I think I manage to gaslight an NPC into getting hostile or something

[copper sorrel]

Maybe it makes more sense, caus gamers find Bugs easier

[scenic fog]

Imagine AI-infused mmorpgs, ai npcs that adapt in real time, ai villains, exciting in a way.

[acoustic palm]

You can just write between () and write roleplay. So you can just say (conscience Lariat to give me the loot) and it worked. Unless they patched it

[copper sorrel]

Yep, certainly thats something about ai noone is afraid of, i think? But its a long way till that day

[normal hound]

Also not every NPC has the AI function if I recall and I don't think those NPCs whole design is built from AI they seem to actually have a backstory and personality behind them

[copper sorrel]

But would we even want perfect replicas of humans in their own Environment? Maybe we seek comfort in traditional gaming?

[steep shore]

There are mods for Skyrim which plug NPCs to LLMs so they can react to what's happening around them and what player is saying to them.

Pretty darn cool if you ask me. :D

[normal hound]

I just want a fun game AI or not. If the game sucks it sucks, I don't personally believe AI will have an impact on that

[copper sorrel]

Yes true. A game is only as good as a game is.

[compact dawn]

AI is just a tool like anything else. How it's used matters more than any unreasonable revulsion to it.

[copper sorrel]

Name 10 reasonable revulsions.

[low moon]

Honestly, instead of arguing here, leave a review of your opinion on steam and if it's positive play, if it's negative rotate PoE1 & PoE 2, that's all we got, and what we got is solid.

[tropic nebula]

Dang we’re still cooking here?

[compact dawn]

10 may be difficult. However these are on the top of my head.

1. AI can feel synthetic or rather impersonal at times, In a way that triggers an uncanny valley feeling. It also ties into point 2 below.
2. AI can feel very repetitive, both stable diffusion and LLM often create very similar outputs. There is very little variance once you are exposed to it for awhile.
3. An obvious fear of replacing jobs. Once AI get's better it most certainly will replace most white collar jobs eventually. Tie it in with robotics and it can take blue collar jobs. That is tied into the fact people have very little confidence our governments will act in the best interest of the common folk.

Mind you, I'm rather indifferent on AI. Globalization took my job years ago, and no one stood up for me then.

[tropic nebula]

Mass surveillance enabling Models are pretty contemptuous. Opinion manipulation in the social networking space. Not to mention the environmental cost of training a large model is huge.

[main frigate]

poe 2 is the only choice for me too... In December.

[copper sorrel]

Were you a chicken farmer in africa?

[compact dawn]

A structural steel draftsman (detailer) in the US. My job is being outsourced to India and China.

[rancid pulsar]

so is this Last epoch general or just anything general, I don't really get how this has gone on for so long

[copper sorrel]

Lets talk last epoch. I wish we could /sit our character and chill in the dinosaur epoch looking at the epic arts

[compact dawn]

Eh, mod's check this once and awhile to tell us to get on topic, but generally as long as it's not heated they let it go on for a little bit

[coarse swallow]

The biggest thing is that it's not interfering with others that 'are' trying to discuss Last Epoch.

[loud fable]

#💬┃general message

#💬┃general message

Hey, just thought I'd bring this up again. I'm not sure what the solution is about MTX. They just look...bad. I spoke about why precisely (just my opinion). I'd also like to add that for most people, they like these "OUT THERE" type of styles, and EHG definitely has the graphics capability for it. I could just say "trust me bro", but EHG, if you're seeing this, just hire a market research company. A half-decent one would be able to provide so much context and do lots of A/B testing into styles. More grounded options are fine for games like Diablo, because a huge chunk of its players identify with their characters, and are fine with just the idea of looking good. LE/PoE needs to be in-your-face. Just some food for thought. That research company would do wonders✌️

[scenic fog]

I just wanna be able to play a female sentinel

[copper sorrel]

But why?

[heady night]

I want a necro theme sentinel. Idk what that looks like though since we have acolyte already

I feel you though i want to play an old female sorc

With all the white and grays

[compact dawn]

not sure if male/female selectorable characters has a huge impact on sales

[copper sorrel]

It lacks some more genders

[proud steppe]

@scenic fog same here lol

[compact dawn]

we are talking about sex not gender

[copper sorrel]

Afaik you cant choose sex in le

[proud steppe]

@compact dawn i dont know if you know but it is the same thing

Gender = Male / female and Sex = Male / female ( and i dont want to be banned so il will only talk about these 2 )

[compact dawn]

For most people, but for some people it isn't. I'm in the formal rather then the latter, but also not looking to offend people either. It doesn't bother me.

[severe socket]

...oh boy, here we go.

[coarse swallow]

Adding this would be a very large task, and increases future work as all armor modeling now needs to be done for twice as many character models. We'd like to add body styles to Last Epoch, but doing so now would take away substantial resources from other efforts such as endgame content. So we'd like it, but due to the scope, it hasn't hit top of the priority list.

[proud steppe]

@coarse swallowty for the beginning of your reply i was thinking the same thing yesterday

[obtuse bay]

hello there ❤️

[copper sorrel]

Quite smart of ehg to go with one gender. And also a sentinel can be both female or male, its not clear!

[loud fable]

It's 2025. Move on. We all moved on past that fever dream.

Of course it impacts sales a lot (this "a lot" is a complex topic). People want to be represented. Overwhelmingly, boys will not play a character unless it's a boy. Less so (but still a big number), girls will not play unless there are girls in the game. Applies to so many mediums of entertainment.

But that's only one nuance. I don't think it matters that much for ARPGs, given what they are, so, it'd be more correct to say it matters a lot generally.

[compact dawn]

PoE sells well without male/female choice on character select. It's not exactly a deal breaker, and likely won't add many sales by adding it.

[loud fable]

Kain specified the effort to that is immense. It has to be. In terms of demographics, girls just don't play ARPGs, so, even if they could somehow bake it for cheap, it's worth the time at all.

[compact dawn]

you mean it **isn't **worth the time at all? If so we are in agreement.

[loud fable]

#📚┃off-topic message - there aren't any public datasets which correctly or descriptively divide the PC gaming industry, let alone on a per-game basis, but if you "trust me bro" (based on that thread), I can tell you that it's less than 20% of the entire players that are women for PoE, and around there, but a bit more, for Diablo (however, Diablo has different nuances, and I'd have to write 20 pages to explain).

[loud fable]

Yep.

Big sad, but what can you do. Numbers and businessing.

[scenic fog]

I posted what female sentinel might look like in fan art, please excuse the funky text.

[kind latch]

Thank you for unfucking Global chat, EHG.

[low moon]

most people got their points across

[turbid silo]

Facts. Priorities are always a challenge. We'd love to add everything possible to the game but it isn't that easy.

[heady night]

how much money you need ill write a check for it

[turbid silo]

Haha, that's kind of you, but I couldn't tell you to be honest

[willow sentinel]

Fun fact : sentinel used to be a female armor warrior, but got change to the character we now have

Her model was kept in the end of time, the Forgotten Knight, as an Easter egg

Eventually she became Orenthia

[inner finch]

Models have changed, but one thing is persistant since very early on

Minimus.

[noble wasp]

I heard EHG was bought by some company? Which company was it?

Oh nvm Krafton and they own pub g

Very interesting

[willow sentinel]

It's been a while now, isn't it?

Oh I guess not that long

July 25th

[noble wasp]

I havent played since the beginning of this season

[rancid pulsar]

I started the season as an ignite build banking on the cool amulet being cool and fixing my clear... yeah

didn't make it to 10hrs I think lol

[elder barn]

why would you believe that a unique item hyped by the devs during the showcase and extensively showcased in teasers and trailers would be good, smh

completely unreasonable smh

[simple bison]

I don't remember it being shown than the others. And regardless that's kind of a weird way to gauge whether you think an item will be good or not. In my experience arpg devs usually showcase things they think looks neat over what's actually good

but yes it does suck and should get buffed

[inner finch]

If Season 3 taught me anything, is that i prefer items being not too great over being bugged

[simple bison]

Afaik it still was never bugged. The only thing people have said that I don't remember being confirmed whether or not it was bugged was that the recasts waren't working with some skill nodes

but the spread was working as intended from the getgo, it just didn't work the same way people thought it would

wording was just too vague

[calm zodiac]

As a middle of the road solution

couldnt we be allowed to pick the base character model, them choose the class?

[calm zodiac]

And speaking of that, where is FSR/DLSS 🥹

[simple bison]

How would that work with class specific uniques though

[calm zodiac]

it could just use the model of a class specific item of that character

[magic vector]

they can't fix the same bug for 5 years and you want FSR/DLSS

ok

[quick magnet]

I haven't played enough to generate any of this nebulous frustration around old bugs so many seem to have

[main frigate]

It's a good thing... Less negative mood, more fun :)

[smoky helm]

sad how these devs fell off, knew it was wraps as soon as krafton got involved. nice try folks 👍

[carmine smelt]

does it work with skill nodes now?

[simple bison]

I don't know. I meant it more as in I haven't seen nor tested to confirm whether that was actually bugged or not but that people seemed to think it was. If you know of nodes that should work but don't/didn't that'd be dope

[main frigate]

Wait... Isn't stream on Friday all years? Why the schedule is Wednesday (Nov. 26th) suddenly

Oh that's December... Nevermind

[carmine smelt]

I remember someone using meteor extra meteors as an example

but now that I think of it, that's direct cast after the patch

[simple bison]

Direct cast only

Yeah

Even though it counts as you casting it it's still not a direct cast

[carmine smelt]

I'm pretty sure this bug is what dread told me, and then he was saying it was ninja fixed at some point with no notes or anything

[simple bison]

Might be true. I just personally never actually saw an example which is why I can't say for sure whether or not it ever was or is bugged

[carmine smelt]

Yea I didn't actually end up using it, but I remember doing some theorycraft math before the patch and it seemed like it should essentially be 30% or whatever "more damage" on paper, but then it wasn't

even if you weren't doing the ignite stuff

[simple bison]

But also I think most people complaining about the item being bugged thought the spread was bugged, but that part never was. It just sucks

[carmine smelt]

ye

[main frigate]

Your bed summoning you :)

[simple bison]

I'm in bed

[astral pawn]

Hey hey! Quick question about game crashing all the sudden, I have two monitors and after clicking to my second screen for discord or something my game crashes on me. I have 80hrs or so into the game and it was never an issue before, I have verified the files on steam, I have even un-installed and re-installed the game, I even went to borderless window mode and I cant even get the game to run, any ideas??

[smoky pier]

try deleting the graphics mgr file https://support.lastepoch.com/hc/en-us/articles/1260805163370-The-Graphics-ini-File

if that doesn't work, you can raise a support ticket on the same site. top right corner

[main frigate]

It's make sense... CM need real human. But... Artists are under dangers if they don't know how to drive AI. Aesthetics and efficiency. But... As an artist, the process should something they enjoy the most. AI steal this core so AI art is souless.

Enjoy what are you doing!

[idle torrent]

If there's no feasible way to obtain paid premium classes besides paying for it, isn't that a subset of pay to win?

I mean I get that every decision will have its share of supporters and haters

but damn

yall really need that money huh...

[thick lotus]

i may think differently, but thats not pvp game after all
thats everyone's journey using some role; role can be different but in case of this game - parts of journey will be same
so i think main thing is journey itself

[idle torrent]

what the fk even is that take?

so if a game doesnt have pvp they are automatically "forgiven" for all the bad/questionable decisions?

my point is that obtaining premium content INORGANICALLY, be it expansions or classes or other forms of content via methods outside of the game makes the game unenjoyable

because lets not deny it

it is

and here I thought ashes of creation devs were the greediest, most money hungry dogs in 2025

guess i was wrong

[south moat]

Tbh I think they should've just made the dlc purchaseable and include the class in that

[normal hound]

p2w has taken on a very different meaning I think and seems to come on a spectrum. Personally if the class is op and becomes the "viable" meta (think spirit born) then yeah p2w/ pay for power however you want to phrase it. You are still paying for an advantage especially when people are racing to kill Abberoth which in itself is a competition and therefore could be seen as p2w if that class is better at achieving the goal

[ancient dawn]

Literally pay to win. Poe has shown you can have the best arpg that's free. They make quality mtx that make you want to by them. Like the stupid turtle hideout. And dogs.... Bastards

[south moat]

"it's greedy that the company wants to survive instead of going under"
smh

[ancient dawn]

Anyone who thinks the class won't be op is a moron. They want you to buy it. Who is going to pay for mediocre?

[normal hound]

Agreed, I think they should just do away with the live service model and focus on Expansions... BUT they really need to finish the current story before making us pay for more story content.

[idle torrent]

genuinely skill issue, if you cant sustain a business model you change it, not sell it off to someone else who will ruin it

they took the easy way out because the risk wasnt worth the reward

imagine as a dev you have so little confidence in the game's future that you have to SELL IT OFF to stay afloat

what do you think players will think about the future

[ancient dawn]

I dunno about that. They would have dangled a pretty big carrot

Everyone wants the best for their hard work

[normal hound]

I think the problem is every ARPG now feels the need to be a live service too

[idle torrent]

this is greed in its purest form

[south moat]

Agreed
Would've saved a lot of money if they didn't make it live service

[idle torrent]

nothing else needs to be said

[idle torrent]

based btw, say it louder for the fanboys at the back

[normal hound]

Exactly. Use the money from the base game to fund an expansion or make another game

[idle torrent]

nah they cant make another game, horizontal expansion will instantly kill LE

LE isnt established enough to go on maintenance mode at this stage of development

[ancient dawn]

Maybe. But if you're slaving away with a small crew. Stressed, over worked. Watching competitors flourish. An offer to be able to hire more people for your project becomes very yempting

[normal hound]

Well yeah its too late for that now

[ancient dawn]

These big gaming houses play on that desperation

[idle torrent]

then you fix the problem at its core, not sell it off to a greedy publisher

[ancient dawn]

Not sure that but is as easy as it sounds.

Le strikes a great middle ground for an arpg

[idle torrent]

hence why i said they took the greediest, laziest and most unsustainable way out of this

[ancient dawn]

But this direction is poor

[idle torrent]

ok so lets think for a second, its middle of the spectrum, do you think middle of the spectrum players will pay for classes seasonally?

ofc not right?

[elder barn]

Is this "great middle ground" in the room with us? Because LE is literally the most shallow ARPG on the market lmfao

[ancient dawn]

It's got more than d4?

[idle torrent]

nah, that title goes to torchlight infinite

[normal hound]

Th problem with LE (and dont get me wrong its one of my favourite ARPGs) is that the MTX sucks and the content is slow and not very meaty. And this is the problem with it being a live service, your game is judged by the playerbase on the basis of how good the season is rather than how good the expansion is

[ancient dawn]

Poe 1 had bugger all for a long time, so I hear anyway

They need time to grow

[idle torrent]

my take on it is that the game is good, but not "pay $30 for a new class every 6 months" good

[ancient dawn]

These days it takes one exceptionally poor decision and ya hosed

[ancient dawn]

100%

[elder barn]

I would unironically recommend D4 over LE after seeing the direction of LE season 3. At least D4 nominally has an endgame with varied objectives and not "push 123847982357091193 corruption and kill bigly mob for bigly loot bigly times per echo"

[idle torrent]

i dont think there's any growing with krafton

like

[ancient dawn]

Profits

[normal hound]

I think its a little too early to ay "$30 class" we dont know what the cost will be

[idle torrent]

the expansion has to be very very very high budget

to keep a lot of people paying

[south moat]

I seriously doubt it'll be $30 when the base game is 30

[idle torrent]

im confident it will be 30, they wont just sell the class ala carte

[ancient dawn]

Even GGG is struggling to keep people happy with poe2

[scenic fog]

Watch it be 2.99 or something.

[ancient dawn]

Why you want Poe 1 again beats me...

[idle torrent]

they'll package it will class launch exclusive mtx and other pets

if its 2.99 then fk it

because at this point its just a spit in my mouth

[ancient dawn]

2.99 is still p2w which sucks