I don't think it'd make it a much worse game immediately, but the follow on effects of removing it would lead to a gradual development hell spiral
#💬┃general
short vessel
torn shore
I don't think it'd make it a much worse game immediately, but the follow on effe...
You've clearly never played poe
outer lily
But if your endgame reaches a point where your core gameplay loop is "spam troves for weeks - finally get an imprint drop - brick to havoc / removal / chaos / fp gamba - repeat", then it's shite
short vessel
? The most gamba arpg out there
torn shore
They have ways to guarantee meaningful things without having to grind for hours on end for 2 modifiers
outer lily
? The most gamba arpg out there
PoE2 endgame crafting is fully deterministic
torn shore
You take xyz, combine them, and are guaranteed a result within a set amount of deterministic steps
short vessel
Huh
torn shore
Last epoch, you didn't hit the gamble? Start over
short vessel
Poe1
torn shore
Bruh
short vessel
A long time ago
outer lily
Huh
I have posted several videos on PoE2 crafting recipes for 0.3, feel free to check it out
torn shore
You can't say anything then if you haven't checked anything recently then
outer lily
it is fully deterministic
short vessel
Fair enough then
torn shore
Arguing a point when you didn't even know the base content/context of what was being discussed 🥀🥀🥀
outer lily
in LE "endgame crafting" is "farm for imprint proc - slam havoc / removal / chaos - brick and repeat"
short vessel
But ngl, poe got big enough to get where it is today while being more gamba than LE
torn shore
in LE "endgame crafting" is "farm for imprint proc - slam havoc / removal / chao...
The devs vision 🤝
torn shore
But ngl, poe got big enough to get where it is today while being more gamba than...
...
Dude are you high
What
Lmao
short vessel
It did!
outer lily
no
torn shore
Bro
outer lily
PoE at no point has been "more gamba than LE"
torn shore
What was gamble heavy about poe please tell me
Where if you brick an imprint onto your lp unique the last 10 hours you spent was worthless
I'd love to know
outer lily
There is a reason the orb crafting in PoE2 0.1 caused so much controversy
people hated that gamba shit
torn shore
Reason why harvest was also so popular
short vessel
I remember watch crafting videos of people dumping thousands of pieces of currency into a piece of gear and having to bet on a single annul
torn shore
I remember watch crafting videos of people dumping thousands of pieces of curren...
The only limitation of your gear is legitimate your currency stash
On poe
In last epoch?
Your limitation is rng completely bricking your item
You can't work on it any more
outer lily
do 200 troves - get an imprint proc - brick havoc / removal / chaos / fp - repeat
0 agency whatsoever
torn shore
POE you can farm up and then continue working back on it once you have more currency
short vessel
POE you can farm up and then continue working back on it once you have more curr...
Correct me if i'm wrong but that's still time wasted
Either way
torn shore
Dude more than half the people in LE have never even played or touched other arpgs or something istg. They say all this false shit and claim Le is the best
outer lily
it does seem so tbh
short vessel
I'm not even saying that lol
torn shore
Correct me if i'm wrong but that's still time wasted
Like LE doesn't have it the worst with completely bricking
- An rng drop lp unique
- An rng drop exalt base
- Rng the correct affix
- Completely brick item
- Have to repeat because you can't work on the item anymore
outer lily
I made dozens of suggestions, so the ball is really in EHGs court 🤷♀️
torn shore
🛌 🛌 🛌
torn shore
I made dozens of suggestions, so the ball is really in EHGs court 🤷♀️
They'd rather let the ball bounce out of court and cry for krafton to send another 100mil
outer lily
it's a fact that the discord server is practically dead though
simple bison
LE and poe crafting are different from a local perspective but if you abstract them it's the same thing, You need to spend x amount of time on average to get y amount of resources/items to get the result you desire
outer lily
and a head scratcher that they'd ask for our "input on MTX" when so many gameplay issues exist
who's supposed to buy those hypothetical MTX when the game has like 12 players
torn shore
and a head scratcher that they'd ask for our "input on MTX" when so many gamepla...
They need money. Clearly they have to pay the bills even with the acquisition deal /s
🛌 🛌 🛌
short vessel
and a head scratcher that they'd ask for our "input on MTX" when so many gamepla...
Well, tbh, there's been a lot of feedback that peoole just don't think the MTX is good enough
To warrant purchasing
simple bison
and a head scratcher that they'd ask for our "input on MTX" when so many gamepla...
They have an mtx team. You can't make artists into designers, engineers and programmers and have them work on gameplay aspects
outer lily
MTX is the last thing EHG should be focusing on rn
short vessel
Sure, but it helps to make good looking mtx lol
torn shore
Pov I still can't click on a monolith portal without glitching my game out and my stash tab still cause micro freezes
Thanks EHG
👍
outer lily
They have an mtx team. You can't make artists into designers, engineers and prog...
fair
silk wolf
They have an mtx team. You can't make artists into designers, engineers and prog...
So many do not understand the structure of a Company.
torn shore
They're always asking for gameplay feedback, it's the <#1422222745432887336> cha...
Like they ever listen to it lmao
short vessel
Yes
simple bison
I can guarantee you they do
outer lily
they may or may not
torn shore
They pretend dread's criticism video doesn't exist
outer lily
best we can do is post it 🤷♀️
simple bison
I've had some of my own suggestions and feedback implemented, even before I was a mod or even in CT
outer lily
I truly wish the game the best, I wouldnt be playing it for 15h a day and recommending it if I didnt like it, buy the post just seems so surreal to me
torn shore
Same with Aaron. Rather ignore the problems and then point and laugh
silk wolf
Like they ever listen to it lmao
Why so negative and pessismistic? How can you possibly know this?
torn shore
Why so negative and pessismistic? How can you possibly know this?
They have 5 year old bugs still in the game
🛌
They promised things over a year ago, and still undelivered
simple bison
I truly wish the game the best, I wouldnt be playing it for 15h a day and recomm...
Not addressing one issue because there's a more serious issue at hand even though the two require completely different solutions by completely different people is weird to me
Why shouldn't they ask for feedback on mtx
torn shore
They price jacked from $26 to $35 on full release promising a one time purchase and still seamingly want to move away from their promise
simple bison
It's not like if they didn't do this it would make any difference at all to anything else, except now we might actually get better mtx
outer lily
Why shouldn't they ask for feedback on mtx
because the game has 0 player retention right now, the discord server is practically dead and there are like 12 active players
torn shore
It's not like if they didn't do this it would make any difference at all to anyt...
They have bigger problems to worry about atm
simple bison
because the game has 0 player retention right now, the discord server is practic...
So they shouldn't ask for feedback period anymore?
I don't get your point
outer lily
is that what I said?
torn shore
Mtx of all things should be the least of their worries atm
outer lily
^
simple bison
They have bigger problems to worry about atm
The mtx artists dont
torn shore
So they shouldn't ask for feedback period anymore?
Bro twisting words like that is crazy lmfao
simple bison
This is their only job
torn shore
The mtx artists dont
It was important enough for them to warrant a full statement rather than a statement about the bugs
simple bison
I mean I didn't mean it as a strawman, but you saying the server has nobody active so they shouldn't ask for feedback made it seem that way to me
torn shore
I mean I didn't mean it as a strawman, but you saying the server has nobody acti...
I never said that (?)
outer lily
that's still a mismanagement issue - why is there a full mtx team with apparently nothing to do when the game has core problems?
torn shore
Tf lmfao
simple bison
It was important enough for them to warrant a full statement rather than a state...
They don't need feedback about bugs, bugs need fixing, end of story no?
torn shore
They don't need feedback about bugs, bugs need fixing, end of story no?
5 years for a bug is crazy work
simple bison
I don't disagree
But that's besides the point
what would a feedback post about bugs even look like
outer lily
I think that's quite literally the point
torn shore
^
simple bison
hey guys, what do you guys think about the bugs we have? do you want us to fix them? xd
torn shore
hey guys, what do you guys think about the bugs we have? do you want us to fix t...
They pretend they don't even exist majority of the time lmfao
short vessel
So it's not like i don't get the criticisms... it's more that why are you in here complaining about it. If you've made the suggestions and done the bug reports i don't see what's the point of complaining about it in general chat
torn shore
Legit in stream you ask about it? They ignore it
short vessel
Cos mike doesn't necessarily know about the goings on in relation to it?
simple bison
Legit in stream you ask about it? They ignore it
Yes, because what are they supposed to say? They can't promise to fix something they're unsure if they can or not on the spot
outer lily
according to https://steamcharts.com/app/899770, there are currently 1800 people playing.
They have different issues to worry about than MTX.
simple bison
Mike can't possibly know the details of every bug mentioned, so he can't really comment on them
torn shore
So it's not like i don't get the criticisms... it's more that why are you in *he...
Because the devs don't do anything about the current issues and pray for the off chance that one sees it and finally works on the things they have to fix
simple bison
I think that's reasonable
torn shore
Yes, because what are they supposed to say? They can't promise to fix something ...
They've had 5 years to fix bugs. Why do they continue to pretend they don't exist then
short vessel
What bug are you thinking of?
outer lily
They recently made a "3 million purchases" post. If out of 3 million people, only 1800 are playing, that is an issue.
torn shore
according to https://steamcharts.com/app/899770, there are currently 1800 people...
Check player retention after 10 days of season launch lmao
simple bison
Sometimes he will comment on more major bugs that affect the playerbase as a whole, but when someone mentions oh this node in bone golem hasn't worked for 3 years please fix it. He likely doesn't even know if it's bugged for sure (would need to check a known bug list), if it's reasonably easy to fix, and what priority it would have
hence they don't comment
torn shore
What bug are you thinking of?
https://youtu.be/H33hTqru2w0?si=91wpQKLGmY9mad8l
This and more that have been reported multiple times
meager arrow
Sometimes he will comment on more major bugs that affect the playerbase as a who...
You sound like a bug police
short vessel
Er, got a timestamp?
green imp
Facing end game a large part of what drives me off is unobtainable items. Like making LP3 or LP4 items 0.0000000001% chance is supposed to keep players playing...
torn shore
Er, got a timestamp?
The entire video talks about bugs. Multiple bugs in the game lmao
outer lily
And if the gameplay is so ass that out of 3 mil people, 1800 are playing, and the company decides "You know what, let's make a forum post about improving MTX", yes that is the dictionary definition of "living on another planet"
short vessel
Okay, i'm just at work and aren't at liberty to watch an entire 10 min video
torn shore
Facing end game a large part of what drives me off is unobtainable items. Like m...
It's cuz we can't let players get too strong - devs 🛌
torn shore
Okay, i'm just at work and aren't at liberty to watch an entire 10 min video
Welp watch in your own time then
short vessel
Nah, it's cos if every unique is reasonable to get that degree of LP on it kills viable item diversity
outer lily
I can guarantee you that in the list of "Why do so many people quit our game", "bad MTX" is not in the top 10 of reasons.
torn shore
Like congrats your players are strong from crafting endgame items at endgame level.
They don't even have anywhere else to use their characters cuz there's no endgame activities lmfao
🛌 🛌 🛌
I can't wait for 300 more tries of monolith spam for 1 more affix in my lp unique
simple bison
You sound like a bug police
Look. I'm not saying the amount or severity of bugs currently present is okay. I'm not trying to say everything is fine and you're over reacting. But saying they shouldn't have made the mtx feedback post because there are tons of bugs just doesn't make sense. Like maybe it doesn't look the best optically at first glance? sure, but like mentioned it's not like the mtx team, who are artists. Can be re-assigned to fix bugs, so would you rather have better mtx or worse mtx, that's all there is to it. With the post we might get better mtx based on feedback, without it we'll likely have a lower chance of getting better mtx that's not based on feedback. Neither of these scenarios have any effect on the bugs or any of the other pressing issues the game has.
outer lily
it's tone deaf 🤷♀️
meager arrow
My endgame activity is searching MG to see if a 4lp red ring has dropped and listed
torn shore
My endgame activity is searching MG to see if a 4lp red ring has dropped and lis...
Real
Bought mine for 1 gold
🤝🤝
outer lily
deflation is a sign of a dead playerbase
torn shore
Also speaking of MG is dead in a ditch if you haven't played season start lol
simple bison
it's tone deaf 🤷♀️
When wouldn't it be tone deaf? when they hopefully get the bugs in order a few months from now when they gotta release the mtx for season 4 and get more backlash for them being bad?
meager arrow
Maybe they should introduce pits or rifts ladder for 1-4 players
torn shore
You try and play mid season and it's a genuine tidal wave of shit
outer lily
When wouldn't it be tone deaf? when they hopefully get the bugs in order a few m...
because MTX have no business being in the discussion at the current game state
simple bison
Why keep releasing "bad" mtx while trying to get the bugs under control instead of trying to fix both issues at once, like mentioned it's not like one has anything to do with the other.
torn shore
Maybe they should introduce pits or rifts ladder for 1-4 players
Wouldn't solve the problem imo they have no endgame to begin with so it'd be more monolith at the end of the day
Genuinely crazy too lol
simple bison
because MTX have no business being in the discussion at the current game state
All aspects of the game should always be in the discussion at all times imo
meager arrow
Wouldn't solve the problem imo they have no endgame to begin with so it'd be mor...
You have any ideas for a good endgame
torn shore
All aspects of the game should always be in the discussion at all times imo
OK fireball has a 5 pixel difference in between each cast due to an error in how they coded repeated instances can we fix that
simple bison
Not sure why they should walk on eggshells when it comes to talking about one aspect of the game when a completely unrelated aspect is bad
meager arrow
I wouldn’t mind seeing sigils that can be attached to items and empowering them
outer lily
I disagree with your take on priorities
torn shore
You have any ideas for a good endgame
Horde mode, making arenas actually useful, dungeon loot making more sense for how much gold they cost without being garbage, looking for challenge mode, etc
simple bison
I disagree with your take on priorities
There is no priority, mtx isn't taking priority over bugs here. They are independent of eachother. That's my whole point
fickle birch
They're not prioritizing one thing over the other, so that doesn't make sense...
meager arrow
Wasn’t the whole concept of LE a game made by gamers and to take every part of a good game already in existence and make it a complete and better gaming experience
torn shore
They have an easy cop out answer too with how poe handled delirium and just do that too
outer lily
They're not prioritizing one thing over the other, so that doesn't make sense...
Exactly, and that's an issue.
simple bison
Exactly, and that's an issue.
Mtx artists can't fix bugs
fickle birch
^
outer lily
Why are mtx artists a thing in a dead game?
simple bison
Because that's the games main revenue stream
fickle birch
Because that's how they make money to keep making the game....
torn shore
Wasn’t the whole concept of LE a game made by gamers and to take every part of a...
Except they've only achieved like 40% of what poe did in its first 2 years of operation lol
🛌
outer lily
the game is failing because the gameplay sucks, so people quit
mtx isn't gonna fix that
fickle birch
This is just going in circles at this point. lol
torn shore
Because that's the games main revenue stream
Where do you have the stats saying it's the main revenue stream?
meager arrow
Except they've only achieved like 40% of what poe did in its first 2 years of op...
The good news is we have more content in the future to look forward to , only question is when
outer lily
we literally have 1800 concurrent players in a game 3 mil people purchased
torn shore
The good news is we have more content in the future to look forward to , only qu...
Never the rate it's going. Krafton sunk 100mil down the drain lol
outer lily
The answer to "Why do these people quit" is not "MTX"
simple bison
Where do you have the stats saying it's the main revenue stream?
Because it's the only one outside of box sales, box sales might have netted more in total so far but I think it's fairly logical that box sales will slow down and that they'll have to coast on mtx sales afterwards
outer lily
that's what I mean by tone deaf
torn shore
Because it's the only one outside of box sales, box sales might have netted more...
So... We don't have actual stats and just saying things now?
fickle birch
The answer to "Why do these people quit" is not "MTX"
But the question wasn't "why do you think we're failing" it was "how can we do better with MTX"
So you talking about things OTHER THAN MTX at this time, is irrelevant.
outer lily
But the question wasn't "why do you think we're failing" it was "how can we do b...
The game isn't profitable enough => "How can we improve MTX?"
fickle birch
Yes, that's how the economy works.
outer lily
?
fickle birch
How can they find developers to fix bugs when they don't have money?
outer lily
THE GAME ISNT PROFITABLE ENOUGH BECAUSE THE GAMEPLAY SUCKS
fickle birch
They won't have money if there are no MTX
torn shore
Also unless they're out pacing 105 mil from box sales with their mtx (extremely doubtful) that's just not true. Their mtx sucks ass
🛌
Large majority of players don't touch their mtx
outer lily
It's like talking to a brick wall
torn shore
They touch the base game with the $35 price tag
simple bison
I feel like we're not seeing eye to eye when it comes to the fact that the gameplay and bugs are unrelated to the mtx
torn shore
So unless the 5% can out pace 105 mil from box sales
outer lily
exactly
torn shore
but even if they made the game good
Problem is priorities
simple bison
so why not improve the mtx if they're unrelated to eachother
outer lily
you still wouldn't
incorrect, people buy shitty mtx in poe2 all the time because they like the game and want to support GGG
simple bison
They're not prioritizing mtx over bugs and gameplay
they are seperate teams
artists can't fix bugs
torn shore
💀 💀 💀
outer lily
why do they have so many artists and so few devs then
torn shore
I can't lol
torn shore
why do they have so many artists and so few devs then
Anyways what build you playing in poe2 now
Was thinking of trying twister dead eye
Seemed pretty good
outer lily
Anyways what build you playing in poe2 now
climbed Chaos Lich to HCSSF #2 and done for the league
torn shore
climbed Chaos Lich to HCSSF #2 and done for the league
Real as hell
I'm still trying to get my LA deadeye off the ground but
I dumped so much currency into my reap bloodmage
Problem is that like half the items for reap are 20 chaos+
🛌
Since they're so good for other builds too
outer lily
play SSF, everything is free 🤷♀️
torn shore
play SSF, everything is free 🤷♀️
True
I've been trying to farm kaoms conquerer plate but
My vaals never hit
🥀
outer lily
vaals 💀
outer lily
KEKW
torn shore
Reap is a meme
Bro anything for the memes
I want a single spell to just vaporize everything 3 screens away lol
Twister deadeye seemed fun but
outer lily
Right now I'm on a new character and would be farming Blessings and I genuinely cba
I do like 1 echo and am burnt out
just another gamba system in a sea of gamba systems lol
cobalt fable
honestly i think last epoch is done, because of krafton
outer lily
Krafton didnt make the game 🤷♀️
green imp
It's cuz we can't let players get too strong - devs 🛌
Honestly seen people argue on Reddit if everyone got LP3 or 4 items easy they'd stop playing. So let's make them impossible to get and people will stop playing -_- Honestly if they just improved crafting so it wasn't so rng I'd have a better time. Would I gear up easier? Of course. Would I enjoy the game more? Absolutely.
outer lily
LP aren't the issue. Certain uniques having 1 or 2 LP as their realistic cap is fine
the state of Exalt crafting is an issue though
fickle birch
Using Favor to get more glyphs so I can re-roll exalts definitely feels bad.
short vessel
What glyphs are you getting? I'm absolutely swimming in all of those
Runes i could see myself running out of
fickle birch
Runes, yeah, sorry, not glyphs.
Rune of Havoc and Rune of Redemption, specifically.
I just remember what their icons look like, not their names. Had to look it up. Lol
tropic cove
I had so many runes that I didn't even know what they did because I wasn't keeping up with the patch notes
I just rerolled an exalt for the first time this past weekend
was hoping to make a double exalt actually useful
fickle birch
Havoc and Redemption I think are the best way to target T7 affixes.
But using Favor to get more Runes instead of more Uniques feels real bad.
tropic cove
I don't use prophecies for uniques anyway
fickle birch
Especially when you whiff on the Temporal Sanctum.
And then you're just doing it all over again.
tropic cove
I keep throwing things at the turtle to hope for more LP
short vessel
Havoc and Redemption I think are the best way to target T7 affixes.
I find redemptions pretty eh unless you're at like, triple exalt range
fickle birch
I've had more luck with Nemesis for getting +LP
short vessel
Havoks are definitely high use if multi-exalt crafting
fickle birch
I have whiffed on the Turtle every time I've used it. Which is only like 5 or 6 times, but I still just gave up. Lol
fickle birch
I find redemptions pretty eh unless you're at like, triple exalt range
Yeah, I was fortunate this season to get a chest and boots with triple T7s
tropic cove
I have no idea what uniques are rare so I could have killed good lp1 rare uniques for all I know
short vessel
Turtle offers you an extra chance but also lets you just recycle shit to egg again
fickle birch
I have no idea what uniques are rare so I could have killed good lp1 rare unique...
That's why I import filters from the smart players. Lol
short vessel
I have no idea what uniques are rare so I could have killed good lp1 rare unique...
The only uniques worth keeping in general with 1lp are red rings, ravenous void, omnis, nihilis and uber abby drops
tropic cove
I hadn't thought of using a filter rule to highlight rare uniques
fickle birch
Yeah, all the ones I import alt-color the uniques that are just good ones to have depending on what they are or how much LP is on them.
short vessel
Maybe also orian's eye
fickle birch
So I have a few Omnis just sitting in my stash because they were highlighted blue, even though it's not something you would wear as Warpath
outer lily
I have no idea what uniques are rare so I could have killed good lp1 rare unique...
you could easily find out by copying a guide's loot filter and checking which rares they are filtering for
or by checking droprates on tunklab
fickle birch
Is there a SideKick for LE?
outer lily
none
fickle birch
I'd imagine not
But I just now thought of it. Lol
I feel like the loot filter in LE is so good that I can just rely on the creators to get it right. xD
outer lily
It always amazes me how "just look it up" is something people dont think about, it's the first thing I do lol
I couldnt be that comfortable not knowing basic things
fickle birch
I typically "do my own research" but then there are times where I think a question can be used to start a conversation; maybe I'll learn something new.
Or get a different perspective on it that is expressed better person-to-person.
outer lily
my first week, I've been binging guide videos and skimming the wiki and taking notes lol
fickle birch
But most things you can just look up yourself, for sure. Haha
outer lily
and gathering sources where I can look up stuff
fickle birch
Yeah, I got a lot of favorites on my bar of the good resources.
outer lily
same
fickle birch
It's like YouTube, CrunchyRoll, and then 10 different websites with ARPG info. xD
outer lily
I also have like my own txt guide of stuff I wrote down and step by steps and spreadsheets etc lmao
self sufficiency be praised
fickle birch
I have to stare at spreadsheets all day for work, so when I'm home I try to avoid them as much as possible. It's so hard to do with ARPGs, though 😭
tropic cove
you could easily find out by copying a guide's loot filter and checking which ra...
I would never use a guide for LE, let alone someone else's loot filter. I need to know what my filter is doing, I make my own
short vessel
I refuse to provide a filter in my build guide as learning how to use them from the get go saves you so much screwing around
outer lily
I would never use a guide for LE, let alone someone else's loot filter. I need t...
"what my filter is doing": it says "show rare items" => "these are rare items"
outer lily
Whenever I spend 10 min rerolling at CoF, I wonder WTF they were thinking with this design
torn shore
Honestly seen people argue on Reddit if everyone got LP3 or 4 items easy they'd ...
Idk at that point people would just make new characters anyways. It's what EHG encourages too
You finish a build at its peak and then look at other builds and repeat the process cuz it's fun
Instead rn, you slave away at potential upgrades and then cope and quit eventually
outer lily
You finish a build at its peak and then look at other builds and repeat the proc...
Being able to skip dungeons encourages me to do alts, but knowing I will have to farm Blessings and Corruption and Uniques and Exalts for an eternity makes me wish I had played PoE2 instead
torn shore
Being able to skip dungeons encourages me to do alts, but knowing I will have to...
Blessings are the worst
Absolute shit design tbh
outer lily
🙂
legit just playtime padding without substance
With how much EHG relies on mechanics that artificially pad playtime, you wonder how little faith they have in their own product
main frigate
I think EHG know why their mtx isn't attractive clearly, but they don't do data analysis yet so CM release a post to count exact numbers
I agree with Aaron this time. Quantity. EHG just need to produce more mtx like covering all skills with mtx options at first
short vessel
I mean personally i'd like them to avoid doing stuff too smooth and cartoony
Like some of their armor sets are
main frigate
I will say none of descriptions about what their current art style is will work for them because different people have different definition for art style
short vessel
I will say none of descriptions about what their current art style is will work ...
It's more about it not really meshing well with non-mtx stuff
outer lily
Okay folks, I need a way to simulate different slams on my unique
short vessel
Like... chance of success?
outer lily
No, which exalt to slam
outer lily
like you can in PoB
short vessel
Welp, i hate to be the bearer of bad news but the answer is excel lol
outer lily
how would excel help me
short vessel
Spreadsheet math
outer lily
too complex
short vessel
Welp, no accurate generalised dps calc exists for LE
For EHP tunklabs has a calc afaik
outer lily
that sucks
outer lily
nah I need to know which of 2 T7s to put on ammy, for example lol
short vessel
Okay, which are they
I might be able to point you towards simplifying the comparison
outer lily
crit multi vs crit chance on my evo end 🙂
short vessel
I imagine running exalted chance lets you run something different somewhere else?
outer lily
it has no impact on other gear
just wanted to compare the tooltip dps
I also have one with 67% spell damage from nemesis, so I wanted to compare it against that too
short vessel
Okay that's relatively simple maths. What's your flat chance, increased chance and crit multi without either
Highly likely the 67% spell damage is the worst of the 3
slow cloudBOT
autumn briar
you should just learn how to calculate your crit chance, then you can figure it out
if you mouse over your crit chance from planner, you can see 63.9, but how did it get that?
5+4=9 base crit
21+58+531=610 additional crit
9 * 6.1 = 54.9
54.9 + 9 = 63.9
BUT, you also have 4% base crit in LB tree
so base crit is now 5+4+4=13
recalculate for 13 base crit
13 * 6.1 = 79.3
79.3 + 13 = 92.3
outer lily
you should just learn how to calculate your crit chance, then you can figure it ...
then I can figure what out? lol
chilly ember
also, that base crit doesn't apply to spark charges, and being crit capped on spark charges as opposed to just LB matters a lot
outer lily
the game needs PoB
outer lily
crit multi vs crit chance on my evo end 🙂
didnt I specify this like 1h ago? lol
short vessel
Not the skill i'm calcing for
Lightning blast has +4 flat crit so the maths is different for it compared to like, spark charges
outer lily
why would we care about isolated spark charges
short vessel
If you want to know about improvement across both together then well... that's more complicated then just crit chance math
outer lily
too complex
.
short vessel
the game needs PoB
Agreed
outer lily
PoB makes comparing different gearpieces very easy
chilly ember
well one does exist but it's in very early stages
you would care about capping crit for spark charges if they make up a substantial portion of your damage, which for the LB build they do
without actually making a spreadsheet to calc with is better spell crit is probably the better slam as even if your overall dps is lower than if you had slammed crit multi when you're only at 64% spell crit adding a spell crit slam is going to improve your dps consistency by a lot, which imo feels a lot better to play
outer lily
you would care about capping crit for spark charges if they make up a substantia...
I'm looking at the LB skill and I don't see any relation between crit and spark charges
unless you meant in general
short vessel
Spark charge detonation is a spell
It can crit
You currently only have 64% crit chance with spells
outer lily
yep, I'm gonna slam 175% crit chance
autumn briar
you'll be overcapped on lb crit though.
i dont play the spec, dont know how significant that is
outer lily
removing the 58% chance blessing though, so a +117 for x7.27.
chilly ember
you'll be overcapped on lb crit though.
but spark charges are the majority of the damage on lb, not lb itself
autumn briar
ok, didnt know that
short vessel
175% increased will only get you to like 80% crit chance
Need added flat
More than increased
outer lily
do I count the +4% to base crit from lb or no?
short vessel
Not for spaek charges
chilly ember
you wanna be crit capped on everything because spark charges are such a substantial portion of your damage and they don't inherit the base crit from lb tree
outer lily
Need added flat
there is no added crit chance
chilly ember
Need added flat
unfortunately there's not a ton of great flat crit sources for the build pre SW that don't come at a high opportunity cost
outside of blood mage which you already have
short vessel
Unfortunate
chilly ember
phantom grip exists but you lose too much by dropping the ferebor or exalted with ferebor affix
short vessel
However you are lucky in that you are playing the class where 90% of gearing problems can be solved by just cranking more int!
Wish i didn't have to play the stat balancing act with my build so much
Finally starting to nail down "ideals" in terms of stats for it
carmine smelt
crit multi vs crit chance on my evo end 🙂
For LB minmaxing you don't want T7 spell crit anywhere since you can get crit capped without
Amulet is T7 multi + T7 lightning pen
outer lily
with 1 LP gear?
chilly ember
and no SW?
carmine smelt
If you are using Shattered Worlds you can with 1LP, if not you can do it with T7 spell crit on body armor
outer lily
I'm going for Twisted Heart
carmine smelt
for HC you probably want T7 spell crit + T7 int body + Twisted, yeah.
outer lily
figured
chilly ember
2lp unstable with good rolls is gonna be mad hard to get from where they're at though
carmine smelt
The math is pretty simple, you have 9% base crit which means you need about 1000% increased crit total. At ~220 int you have 660 increased from that, meaning you need another 340% ish
outer lily
2lp unstable with good rolls is gonna be mad hard to get from where they're at t...
I'm gonna be using exalt body for quite a while
carmine smelt
indeed, but if we are talking about double T7 crafting I don't know if I would bother making placeholders
those are too high effort to make something you will later discard
outer lily
the idea was to slam crit chance for 1 lp, then crit multi for 2+ lp, guess I'm sticking with that
carmine smelt
Well spell crit is worth it early on, yeah
I just wouldn't make a T7T7 with spell crit personally
maybe T7T5
especially jewelry slot which is a pain to farm
outer lily
yep
carmine smelt
you can do t7t5 without imprint farm fairly consistently though
its not crazy to get
outer lily
I'm not there yet, but good to know
carmine smelt
https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/ALGK2z2o oh actually just realized, I never even made the 77 EE yet, only had 77 mana guide lmao
slow cloudBOT
carmine smelt
but yeah you can see spell crit is super overcapped there, not optimal setup
chilly ember
elemental nova gaming?
paper ibex
hello everyone,
I've just opened level 100 echoes
2 things
minimal damage, one bonk, I'm dead
maybe gear issue?
carmine smelt
gear or build, or both.
carmine smelt
That's pretty off meta
chilly ember
that's the first time i've heard that sentence
carmine smelt
I wasn't aware of any runebolt dps guides
carmine smelt
well I'm biased obviously, but if you are playing Mage probably Lightning Blast
carmine smelt
wasn't that to trigger runics?
muted cape
yeah but he said runebolt was also doing solid dps
and this was like a year ago during 1.1 release
there was a bug where it wasnt doing enough dps
carmine smelt
yeah, game got a lot harder in 1.2 imo, a lot of builds kinda fell apart after that with the much more demanding single target needs
chilly ember
can someone reccomend a good dps build with good survivability?
do you have a class preference?
muted cape
yeah, game got a lot harder in 1.2 imo, a lot of builds kinda fell apart after t...
yeah but I also havent personally looked into runebolt patches, but it would be 100% buffed with prime gear
chilly ember
or mastery even
muted cape
everything buffed with primes
chilly ember
yeah but I also havent personally looked into runebolt patches, but it would be ...
if you double 0 it's still 0 xdd
muted cape
like honestly... the only meta this patch is one build that does 1billion dps
underneath that is everything else
carmine smelt
That's fair, I could be off base but I just didn't think it was anywhere near strong enough before for current game. Even FC Nova used to have "enough" single target and that's maybe like 1 or 2m dps?
Happy to be wrong though, I'd love more viable mage builds
muted cape
yeah if i'm being modest, I think runebolt is enough to do decent dps, and combines nicely with roi procs
carmine smelt
wait where does the damage even come from? A unique?
chilly ember
going harmony on a mage sounds like a recipe for zhp
paper ibex
I changed from runebolt to lightning blast last night
damage is still meh, probably the gear I have on atm
carmine smelt
damage is still meh, probably the gear I have on atm
link your gear, you can't really just change from one skill to another with the same gear unless its very similar builds
paper ibex
can I go to classes channel? I'll take screenshots of my gear
short locust
<@&1161418687471956101>
short locust
Why is there such an extreme amount of bots plagueing this server
paper ibex
creeptoh
muted cape
Blasted.
muted cape
wait where does the damage even come from? A unique?
hmm maybe not, maybe it's not even A or B tier now a days.
paper ibex
@carmine smelt I sent every screenshot on classes channel, tysm
main frigate
I wonder what will happen if someone is both of YouTuber and moderator
muted cape
I wonder what will happen if someone is both of YouTuber and moderator
Not an issue unless it is making youtube content of last epoch.
main frigate
Yes it's what I mean
main frigate
Frozensentinel have this potential as an aged core player
muted cape
frozen sentinel is a great player, and content creator!
outer lily
FrozenSentinel is aged like beef
blissful vine
he's so old
muted cape
That dude knows his stuff
blissful vine
he so doesnt
main frigate
blissful vine
in fact he is so old, sometimes he'd forget his own name
main frigate
I mean maybe frozensentinel is a good moderator here
I never see a moderator is a YouTuber at the same time yet
carmine smelt
he so doesnt
im hurt skylr
carmine smelt
I mean maybe frozensentinel is a good moderator here <:omegalul:5707769883278704...
I'd be a mod if requested but it is a bit weird for creators to have that power, there is a potential conflict of interest there
carmine smelt
I did youtube once upon a time, 5 years ago
Same. My first YouTube adventure was back in 2008, though never really took it more seriously until LE, the community was honestly just so encouraging and supportive from day 1
<@&1161418687471956101>
damn they are relentless...
true granite
#📚┃off-topic too
outer lily
wants to play the laziest build possible
sees a guide for "afk build"
clicks on it
literally piano, where is the afk part bro
pastel path
Someone or rather a bot got impaled 
willow sentinel
*wants to play the laziest build possible*
*sees a guide for "afk build"*
*click...
Reflect is here for you
willow sentinel
Someone or rather a bot got impaled <:kappa:570776921554681905>
We got new tools for that and it's amazing
outer lily
Reflect is here for you
I looked into Reflect Shaman and the first line reads how you upkeep your totems and your spriggan and your thorn shield, doesn't seem lazy to me lol
pastel path
We got new tools for that and it's amazing
Wait wot 👀
willow sentinel
I looked into Reflect Shaman and the first line reads how you upkeep your totems...
Check reflect Paladin,
willow sentinel
Wait wot 👀
We don't have to hunt down every post
pastel path
Moderator using hax!
outer lily
Check reflect Paladin,
nice, ty
pastel path
Ah ah ah you didnt say the magic word!
distant dock
is there a website that shows what mtx is currently on sale in Last Epoch?
mellow robin
willow sentinel
is there a website that shows what mtx is currently on sale in Last Epoch?
I can't find it because I am on phone
But somewhere in there
distant dock
I can't find it because I am on phone
ty m8! just what i was looking for.
magic moth
Where roadmap 🐵
regal finch
check under the passenger seat 🚙
green imp
people actually waste money on mtx in LE? :/
short locust
Where roadmap 🐵
At the place where they map the roads
severe socket
people actually waste money on mtx in LE? :/
Some people do.
willow sentinel
Idk if would call that waste, or support the game I play all the time
severe socket
Different people, different circumstances, I guess.
median perch
Honestly, the current mtx in the shop aren’t that appealing. I only buy 1-2 items a month to support... Many items I bought were never equipped. If I remember correctly, it took me 3 seasons to mix a fire set
main frigate
Idk if would call that waste, or support the game I play all the time
Or different preferences for how to support the game
rugged arch
Hello guys . Can someone explain to me what are wards and what we use em for ?
regal finch
ward is extra health over your regular health.
every defense except Endurance applies to it the same way it does to Health
median perch
Press G(game guide) in game to search
rugged arch
THX
main frigate
Hello guys . Can someone explain to me what are wards and what we use em for ?
A concept as similar as energy shield in poe 2
mellow robin
KEK! i got a potion drop and it says beer
glad to see the devs are taking care of us beer drinkers XDDDDD
south moat
Beer drop is rare
There's another one that's even more rare than beer
main frigate
Beer drop is rare
There's another one that's even more rare than beer
which one?
south moat
which one?
It's a secret to everyone who hasn't seen one 
main frigate
Oh! I see, maybe
There's one thing I never been seen indeed
<@&1161418687471956101> Same spam in multiple channels, thanks
south moat
<@&1161418687471956101>
torn shore
I'm really interested! /s
low moon
Telegram mfs
willow sentinel
All server over 200ms...
Where are you located ?
primal abyss
Howdy Travelers~ 
willow sentinel
primal abyss
Here is my morning ritual of wishing everyone the best drops with the best LP today
willow sentinel
Vandryll, I think you forgot smth
primal abyss
What ever could it be?
willow sentinel
Do you mind clicking "Send" on the roadmap post ? please ?
primal abyss
Something is absolutely missing..
Oh yes, I'll get right on that...if I could
We'll be sure to let folks here know as soon as we can 😆
main frigate
Here is my morning ritual of wishing everyone the best drops with the best LP to...
#📚┃off-topic message
Oh. I'm trying to build a connection with this small stuff.
main frigate
...Damn. I call someone van all the time
primal abyss
Hiii Shadow!
willow sentinel
willow sentinel
_EVERYONE, GET IN THE **VAN**_
Only if you got candies
south moat
Only if you got candies
Only got rock vinyls
worldly valve
any have traitors tounge i can see
devout venture
Ain't a traitor yet
By the way, is anyone else having a bug with the echo quest where you need to slay patrolling diamond matron, siege golem etc, sometimes for me it doesn't show on the map where they are
primal abyss
Honestly, you could lure me in with anything Reese's. I can't even front.
wispy notch
Have EHG said anything about more bugfixes this season? The post on the 1.3.5 topic seemed to imply that it's unlikely, but I didn't want to assume.
primal abyss
If we drop any more patches/hotfix during the season, we'll announce it here and on the forums as well.
wispy notch
Thanks, though I'm not sure if that implies there will be more bugfixed or not. Either way, I'll put the season on hold until further news, got a character that is working but would benefit from ~35% more damage. It's a fun build though, so I'll probably remake it in s4 if that's where the focus lies.
primal abyss
No problem! I would also suggest sharing anything you've come across with the team. Ideally, via F8 in-game.
willow sentinel
Thanks, though I'm not sure if that implies there will be more bugfixed or not. ...
What were you playing ?
regal finch
i wonder whether further bugfixes are being postponed because it's a lot of testing or because a huge chunk of skill system is being changed 👀 (yes, i've heard the old roadmap is outdated now)
wispy notch
What were you playing ?
Poison Lich. All I got left to do is ubber abberoth, but the Corrupted Form bug where it doesn't activate low life conditions is blocking a lot of idol poison chance. (Which has been reported by several people, multiple times since league launch).
willow sentinel
These idols ?
median perch
Does It works with Corrupted Form?
willow sentinel
I think thats the problem
Corrupted Form is apparently bugged and doesnt change the low life threshold
frail comet
Ouch, that's a bummer. Hope they fix it soon! Okay, the user is talking about a bug in Corrupted Form not changing the low life threshold.
willow sentinel
Are you okay ?
median perch
Is there any information about whether it will be fixed in Season 4?
wide river
Guys where can I ask technical questions about game performance, troubleshooting on this discord?
frail comet
Not that I'm aware of, but I'll keep an eye out for updates! Okay, the user is asking if there's any information about whether the Corrupted Form bug will be fixed in Season 4. Let me check the history.
willow sentinel
Guys where can I ask technical questions about game performance, troubleshooting...
Or
!support
rancid basaltBOT
!support
Let's work together to get it sorted! We've support articles and a contact form here: https://support.lastepoch.com/.
willow sentinel
Is there any information about whether it will be fixed in Season 4?
As usual, no
wispy notch
These idols ?
Yup, and a +50-60% multiplier from Reliquary Nest. So about ~200% poison chance tied to low life.
dark holly
Anyone know off hand what happens if you have Meteor Champion's bleed converted to ignite and Carrion of Creation equipped at the same time?
I'll have to test it for science
main frigate
If you start directly with this build, you will die.
@patent spear what do you mean
I don't understand which issue on your falconer
It looks good?
main frigate
Read it and watch the whole video, I still confused
willow sentinel
Anyone know off hand what happens if you have Meteor Champion's bleed converted ...
I am not enterily sure but I think they should happen at the same time ant not work as a loop
What I mean is
All your shock chances ignite etc will go to bleed
But your bleed chance not from the conversion (so your "real bleed chance") will become ignite
And not get converted back
I might be wrong since I have never tested this
willow sentinel
yes my vids are pretty hard to understand
I dont mean to be rude, but it wasnt hard to understand
It was not very good
5min, bad sound quality, no actual gameplay
patent spear
you are not rude, its my choice, you can see the gameplay everywhere
and if you understand, thats perfect 🙂 not everyone does
dark holly
I am not enterily sure but I think they should happen at the same time ant not w...
Oh I figure it's going to be one way
I just want to know which one wins
Might be interesting build potential for converting all other debuffs to bleed, then converting those bleeds all to ignites
simple bison
Anyone know off hand what happens if you have Meteor Champion's bleed converted ...
There's a priority order
dark holly
and having the like +300% fire damage over time on top of that
simple bison
I'll check which one take prio, I think I know but I'm not sure
dark holly
i've got some meteor's, but they're all primordial, so I've set up a drop filter for a non primo one haha
simple bison
I can't seem to find the confirmation but afaik it should be prioritized in the order the damage types are in on the character sheet from left to right. So ignite -> bleed should take prio over bleed -> ignite. I'll see if I can't test it
dark holly
oh interesting, i have never heard that
simple bison
There's a few "draws" that get determined that way
outer lily
The fact that someone really sat down and said "You know what people will love? Clicking Reroll for an hour" will never not be funny to me.
acoustic pasture
Where are you located ?
Korea
simple bison
oh interesting, i have never heard that
I can't test it since I don't have an item with the meteor champion affix and can't get one quickly but I'll make sure that when I can confirm it to let you know
dark holly
roger that, I'll race you to it. :3
worldly valve
I can't test it since I don't have an item with the meteor champion affix and ca...
plz give me traitors tounge !
outer lily
I really hate the fact that the most efficient thing to do pre-300c is full clearing Folly-boosted Cemeteries of Reweaving / False Temples due to how long and mazy and generally annoying these maps are.
inner finch
Its the bus meme paradox
know the meta and be sad you can't ride it, or just be unaware of it and enjoy the mechanics
honest rampart
it's called optimizing the fun out of your own game
outer lily
know the meta and be sad you can't ride it, or just be unaware of it and enjoy t...
that assumes the other path is more enjoyable
inner finch
Yes
outer lily
it's called optimizing the fun out of your own game
I get the urge to jump down my balcony whenever I hear someone mindlessly parrot that stupid sid meier quote
inner finch
You know it sucks, because you are aware of it not being the absolutely optimal way to farm
See, that's the paradox 
Once you learn mechanics, you can't unlearn them
outer lily
Not really. The reason why the desire to optimise farm exists in the first place is because it sucks, and you want to reduce the suckery as much as possible
inner finch
You want to do it, but some other players might not mind entirely
They would just randomly pick nodes and farm them
outer lily
Laundry day sucks because waiting for the machine can be annoying, but considering handwashing as an alternative is ridicuous
inner finch
I can build a park in rollercoaster Tycoon that includes nothing but short coaster rides with on-ride photos, or i can build a park that includes all rides and would take me 3 times as much getting to the population and income goals
Both ways are ways to play, and people enjoy playing both ways
chilly ember
I really hate the fact that the most efficient thing to do pre-300c is full clea...
how long does it normally take you to get to 300c?
outer lily
how long does it normally take you to get to 300c?
Didnt count it
outer lily
Both ways are ways to play, and people enjoy playing both ways
that's because both ways are viable
inner finch
Hey, ding ding ding
chilly ember
Didnt count it
i mean roughly, I’m not asking for an exact figure
outer lily
i mean roughly, I’m not asking for an exact figure
Genuinely no idea
could be hours or days, idk
honest rampart
you're annoyed about playing inefficiently and you're annoyed about playing efficiently. maybe you don't like playing the game
pseudo cloud
can a rogue wear a legendary helmet with intelligence? since intelligence can't roll on their helmets
chilly ember
yes, you can even swap other attributes (i.e dex) to int on rogue exalt helmets in the oerden’s watch woven echo
outer lily
Oerden's Watch 💀
pseudo cloud
yes, you can even swap other attributes (i.e dex) to int on rogue exalt helmets ...
oh glad to know!
outer lily
you're annoyed about playing inefficiently and you're annoyed about playing effi...
I stated several times here that I don't find the endgame great, so hardly surprising
pseudo cloud
I want to make a dex + int boneclamor but its awkward since I cant use rogue bases
outer lily
Why not?
chilly ember
well the only attributes that can natively roll on rogue gear are dex and vit iirc and vit can’t be swapped
so if you want dex AND int I believe you still have to use a non-rogue base
outer lily
I see
Depends on the build I suppose, doesn't hurt to check ladder and builds what bases others are using with a similar build
chilly ember
the build that this is for (ballista) wants uniques in those slots anyways, but getting swappable attributes for dex + int on helm shouldn’t be too hard regardless
snd the rest of the slots either have a different prefix or are class agnostic (rings, gloves)
simple bison
how long does it normally take you to get to 300c?
If I had to guess maybe 20 hours or so for me? maybe 15 or less tbh I have no clue
Yeah actually it's likely like 10-15 now that I think about it
Okay actually I got no clue either lmao
for sure not more than 20 though
outer lily
it depends on char. On a starter you definitely want to path with folly + cemetery / temple pattern, lest you end up with weaver rank 0
on alt, you rush more
simple bison
For pure leveling I don't do troves, just folly/temple but yeah
chilly ember
idk, i don’t play hardcore but I never felt the need to do that this season and it probably would have slowed me down if I had
outer lily
For pure leveling I don't do troves, just folly/temple but yeah
corrected it, was supposed to say folly instead of trove
outer lily
I'd hate having rank 1 weaver at 300c more than I hate sucking it up and doing the cemeteries lol
simple bison
Doing folly + false temples levels it up really fast tbh
By the time I was 100 I think it was maxed out iirc
And since we were racing to 100 we didn't do anything but folly + false temples until then
outer lily
Once you reach 300c and can imprint rampant coast and can path from coast to coast, mapping becomes more tolerable
outer lily
And since we were racing to 100 we didn't do anything but folly + false temples ...
but higher c is also more exp, so 🤷♀️
chilly ember
you get far more weaver tree points by just completing woven echoes for the first time than ranking up
simple bison
but higher c is also more exp, so 🤷♀️
Yeah but when we raced out group comp was so ass we couldn't go much higher x) , we didn't plan it out or anything, was basically just 4 random builds in a group
outer lily
you get far more weaver tree points by just completing woven echoes for the firs...
yes, and purchasing new woven echoes is locked behind weaver rank
chilly ember
i was probably like rank 7 when I hit level 100 and then just grabbed the last few points there
chilly ember
yes, and purchasing new woven echoes is locked behind weaver rank
correct, but at least in my experience you can get the vast majority of them from drops
simple bison
I didn't play much of 1.3 since I was busy with real life (was moving on launch day) plus I had already played a decent chunk in CT. We raced in 1.2, but nothing really changed from 1.2 to 1.3 when it comes to the leveling strat
outer lily
my HC char just died because I got blocked by terrain and overkill damaged by 36
KEKW
simple bison
rip 🫂
simple bison
That'll do it
regal finch
WASD evasion allows getting stuck in a loooot of spots
outer lily
Now I can either
A) do everything, including farming for Blessings until I want to fling myself off my window, again
B) play something better
regal finch
Now I can either
A) do everything, including farming for Blessings until I want ...
no flinging yourself out of a window! 
also, playing something worse or just different should be an option too 🧐
chilly ember
I didn't play much of 1.3 since I was busy with real life (was moving on launch ...
I got like 75% of my weaver tree and then levelled most of the rest of the way doing rune prison complex abusing, I was rank 7 at level 99 but had to get off to leave for a vacation with my family. not saying it’s inefficient but it’s far from the only viable strategy
outer lily
if Blessings didnt exist, I'd probably reroll
regal finch
- me jumping between ARPG, driving, RTS, tactics and adventure games
simple bison
if Blessings didnt exist, I'd probably reroll
I mean you can get blessings right away but they'll be min rolled on alt characters iirc
outer lily
Which doesnt really change anything
simple bison
Not wrong
simple bison
I got like 75% of my weaver tree and then levelled most of the rest of the way d...
Nice. Yeah I ended #10 in 1.2. Couldn't beat falconers and the groups with actual comps :P
outer lily
Just when the game started becoming more tolerable too
chilly ember
stuff like res shred blessing doesn’t really matter what the roll is for most builds
simple bison
Honestly I genuinely think we would've been faster if we didn't group at all lul, but I don't regret it at all it was a good time hanging out
outer lily
0c~300c is such a chorefest
so are blessings
so is praying for exalt drops
time to play something else
simple bison
I feel like you're just burnt out yeah
chilly ember
all res roll is usually the most important one to get high rolled, the rest of them having a low roll is usually a pretty marginal difference
outer lily
depends on build
chilly ember
or block if you need the 8% to block cap
outer lily
I feel like you're just burnt out yeah
that's part of the visionTM
simple bison
that's part of the visionTM
Yep, that's why the game is seasonal :P
for better or for worse (I prefer it personally)
simple bison
Imo anything after being able to beat the hardest content is just limit testing basically
so if you can beat Ubby, grinding for 10x the time it took you to get your current gear to improve your character by like 2% is just limit testing at that point
you can always get stronger
chilly ember
are you still playing SCF exclusively lillith?
outer lily
I kinda wanna play paladin but melee 💀
chilly ember
plenty of ranged paladin builds
chilly ember
even if you don’t use the actual stash no shared mats faction ranks or blessings sounds masochistic tbh
outer lily
I'm gonna hate paladin gameplay after lb rm 🙁
outer lily
even if you don’t use the actual stash no shared mats faction ranks or blessings...
100% agree, especially with how cancerous it is to rank those up
chilly ember
I'm gonna hate paladin gameplay after lb rm 🙁
why though
chilly ember
what is wrong with paladin gameplay
outer lily
not zooming through maps
chilly ember
idk i’ve played a number of sentinels that are zoomier than lb tbh
chilly ember
it’s not the fastest in the world but if your damage is high enough to leave the conc ground behind then doing that speeds you up a lot
outer lily
you need decent legendaries to get it "high enough"
chilly ember
idk i also just wouldn’t play judgement because it’s an extremely boring build and kinda defeats the purpose of playing hardcore imo
that said i don’t play hc anymore
outer lily
the purpose of hc is optimising builds 🤷♀️
chilly ember
what is stopping you from optimizing a build in softcore
outer lily
cant optimise much about only getting shit drops though, sadly
which is what my rm just suffered from
I had gloves and boots slammed with t7 int, thats it
screwed by drops, screwed by nemesis, screwed by imprint, as usual
outer lily
what is stopping you from optimizing a build in softcore
my contempt for it
bright storm
server eu west lag?
chilly ember
sentinel is the easiest class in the game to get online on low gear
outer lily
judgement pala is very legendary dependent to be not ass
chilly ember
just play a sentinel that isn’t judgement idk
outer lily
why would I do that KEKW
chilly ember
because they’re faster and not a snoozefest to play
outer lily
they also die faster
chilly ember
almost every sentinel build is still tankier than LB
outer lily
the more I think about builds, the more lb rm feels like the only non ass thing to play in LE lmao
chilly ember
even the ones without block
mage without flame ward up is on average the squishiest class in the game
outer lily
wdym without flame ward up
chilly ember
i mean if you include the flame ward DR in an ehp calculation then yeah mage is tanky but the reality is flame ward isn’t 100% uptime and mage in general is very low ehp when flame ward isn’t active
outer lily
you can get it close to 100% uptime
and 7k ward is 7k ward, with or without flame ward up
that's 7k hp rogue doesn't have
chilly ember
you can get it close to 100% uptime
unless you’re using horn of the bone wisp like 50% uptime would be optimistic
rogue has a lot of angles to get tanky, people just build defenses on rogue terribly
outer lily
evasion isn't a defence
chilly ember
i agree
rogue has angles to get tanky without relying on dodge as a primary defensive layer
outer lily
7k ward 50% armor levels of tanky?
because that's where my lb rm was right now without gear, flame ward armour bonus not included
chilly ember
yes
cfc helps but overall the lb build is actually on the average-low side when it comes to ehp
chilly ember
if you look at the numbers mage is on average the squishiest class, unless you include flame ward into your ehp
and like flame ward is a great defensive tool don’t get me wrong but including it into an ehp calculation sounds like asking for a HC rip
outer lily
I was considering necromancer reroll, but my god minions suck so much
I love the idea of it, I just hate how they work ingame
chilly ember
runemaster at least has the luxury of cfc which helps but even then it’s not all that great
you’re looking for a zoomy build that’s tanky and ranged yeah?
outer lily
pretty much
I wish they made minion walking speed not snail paced
I'd love to play minions if they didnt suck
chilly ember
any of the throwing sentinels fit that criteria, bleed hammers are the tankiest due to block but also the least zoomy, shield throw is somewhere in the middle and javelin is the fastest but least tanky (still quite tanky though and extremely high range)
outer lily
but "walk 1 step - command minions to go in - wait 5 business days" would give me brain aneurysm
chilly ember
I wish they made minion walking speed not snail paced
you can always snapshot infernal shade lmao
outer lily
any of the throwing sentinels fit that criteria, bleed hammers are the tankiest ...
where do you sort reflect?
chilly ember
where do you sort reflect?
i mean it’s probably the fastest for pure map clear and the paladin version is extremely tanky but no thorn shield means considerably lower damage than shaman
outer lily
why would I not use thorn shield
chilly ember
thorn shield, not thornshell. it’s not a skill available to sentinels
chilly ember
tornado werebear can also be giga tanky if you gear it for hardcore while still having exceptional damage and insane range
outer lily
I despise primalist
I startd a Tornado Werebear actually and gave up on it because Rampage is so ass to use
chilly ember
hmm
hail of arrows is giga tanky but you want to have a decent amount of the gear before you start it because it needs gear for the tankiness to pop off
outer lily
what about warpath vk
chilly ember
it’s like pretty solid tankiness but nothing exceptional until you have the uber items
outer lily
cringe
chilly ember
smite is probably the tankiest vk, aoe is a little limited but it still feels really nice and zoomy
chilly ember
shield throw is good but the manifest armor is a bit annoying
outer lily
how come?
chilly ember
and it’s kinda hard to reach 100% block unless you slam block on a ring
because you don’t invest into his survivability at all so he’s prone to dying but he basically doubles your boss dps so you want to have him up
chilly ember
i mean it is definitely good for hardcore no doubt about that
outer lily
it makes me want to cry how ass minions are lol
chilly ember
but idk unless you wanna do 2000c+ there’s builds that can feel a lot better while still being unkillable
chilly ember
it makes me want to cry how ass minions are lol
ranged minions are fine, melee minions are bad, solo melee minions are the worst
outer lily
but idk unless you wanna do 2000c+ there’s builds that can feel a lot better whi...
I hate how legendary dependent every build I've seen so far feels
chilly ember
(in terms of qol/ai anyways, not power)
i mean i’m a big smite propagandist but that build does come online with very little gear too
outer lily
vk?
chilly ember
ye
for hardcore i’d probably take a couple points out of crit multi in the smite tree and put them into atonement early if you want to be extra safe
but you have capped block and mana tank helm and you scale vitality for damage so you’re still gonna be a tankiness monster with fullscreen range
tardy bison
devouring orb autobomber is great with little gear til warpath gear is available
that's what I did on season start til 100
unless you just really like spinning
reflect paladin is by far the dumbest build this season so far
chilly ember
warpath damage is pretty monka without warriors fury and the tankiness for hardcore is like, fine but i wouldn’t put it into the exceptional category, especially without the uber gear
tardy bison
casually walking through 1k+ corruption and everything just dies
outer lily
I'm strongly considering reflect paladin yes
tardy bison
it has mandatory gear so
outer lily
I've been stocking up on reflect idols lmao
chilly ember
you really want the chest shield reflect idols and a decent amount of attunement
tardy bison
you need minimum 10-12 briar idols, thorns hell and thicket
outer lily
decent amount of attunement = probably dead before I see my T7 attunement exalts drop KEKW
tardy bison
just craft and havoc
chilly ember
even on hardcore I would prefer just playing shaman over paladin and just converting to cold and going for twisty
tardy bison
I just slammed my first red ring for attunement 😎
chilly ember
unless you wanna cheese arena with rebuke gaming ig
outer lily
losing my mage like that I'm genuinely malding
outer lily
rift beast 1 hp because I just couldnt drop a single t7 int exalt to slam on my 1 lps, stuck in tree stump, overkilled by 36 damage
all the bad luck ame together to buttsex me
tardy bison
yea I wouldn't have been doing rampant coast on that build as it was
outer lily
the build was fine
tardy bison
no it wasn't, I saw your planner
outer lily
literally where
outer lily
?
tardy bison
or crafted ring
outer lily
yes
outer lily
slow cloudBOT
outer lily
I did have some really shit luck with drops
tardy bison
oh last one you pasted earlier was 91 and way worse
chilly ember
before you have a decent stash built up using havocs for single t7s is 100% worth
tardy bison
they drop like crazy
chilly ember
it's a bit harder in hc if you don't take the enrage node but
outer lily
yea right
outer lily
it's a bit harder in hc if you don't take the enrage node but
I do
and runic hoard too
chilly ember
i've literally not bought a single rune prophecy this season and have never once needed to
outer lily
do you buy your gear?
chilly ember
and i was using havocs on single t7s the first couple days and it allowed me to gear up extremely fast
no
outer lily
hm
chilly ember
based on everything i've heard you say about how difficult it's been for you to get your gear, i suspect there must be something that's making it more difficult for you to farm gear efficiently, it seems extremely improbable that your luck would consistently be this bad. from everything you've said it sounds like you're broadly doing the proper strategies but it feels like there's some little detail somewhere that's possibly throwing off your gearing process
outer lily
I'm following the most optimal strategies
tardy bison
I agree with that, I've never had the issues he's having
chilly ember
I'm following the most optimal strategies
i know, but i feel like there's gotta be some little thing about how you're crafting, using your mats, filtering, something that is throwing things off. it's probably not an entire strategy maybe it's something as small as a step in your crafting process
outer lily
I thought with the filter having show wanted t7 (int) the drops would at least be somewhat common, but no
so I got to 300c, hoping to see it and then got screwed by a fcking treestump
chilly ember
i'm not saying it's impossible because of course any amount of bad luck is possible but it being this consistent bad luck leads me to believe it's unlikely
tardy bison
did you run nemesis towers?
outer lily
what do you think?
chilly ember
that early on in a character it's going to be challenging to find the desired affixes even for single t7s, I wouldn't filter exclusively for single t7s of a desired affix until they are dropping regularly
outer lily
so what else would I slam then
chilly ember
I would be keeping an eye out for any exalt wih a t7 and your desired mod (not necessarily both) or a t7 with an open prefix/suffix to havoc
outer lily
and then waste a havoc for -20 fp
chilly ember
once you are higher in corruption you can start only filtering for your desired t7s and then eventually you turn off t7s entirely
do you also know how to maximize your chances of getting a desired affix with a rune of havoc?
outer lily
are you talking about sealing on imprints?
chilly ember
no not necessarily, that can help but for single t7s it's often not necessary
i'm talking about tier-matching your non exalted affixes to reduce the number of possible permutations
outer lily
i have no idea what that means
chilly ember
okay this will help you a lot
so
when you use a rune of havoc, the tiers of the affixes cannot remain the same
so
you want to (ideally) have all your non-exalted affixes be the same tier to guarantee that your exalted affix will move
outer lily
Yes, but that's so very specific
chilly ember
sometimes it's not worth the FP/havocs but there's even a calculator on tunklabs that can help you calculating your odds and whether it's worth the potential fp cost of upgrading tiers or not
even for single t7s doing this can drastically improve your odds of hitting without running out of FP while also greatly reducing the number of havocs needed, and for double t7s it's even more of a dramatic difference
outer lily
I'm so confused
willow sentinel
They would just randomly pick nodes and farm them
I might revive a 2h old debate but I enjoy not doing any farm strat
Doing the same 3 maps over and over is killing me
It does sting a bit knowing its un optimal, but after trying it I just cant
chilly ember
I'm so confused
if you tier-match your non-exalted tiers before havocing by simply upgrading them to all be the same tier, this will often significantly reduce your fp costs and number of runes of havoc needed, which increases your odds of hitting and decreases the resource costs of not hitting
outer lily
meanwhile: -20 fp for using a prefix shard
chilly ember
meanwhile: -20 fp for using a prefix shard
they have much lower fp costs than runes of havoc on average and are also a much more disposable crafting material
outer lily
it's something to keep in mind
how would I even filter for that though
You'd want Intelligence, but you'd also want any affixes, and you'd want minimum one on t7
you could filter for any affix + t7 or int + t7
chilly ember
that early on i usually just show all t7s (especially if you want an exalt and it's on a good base) and highlight t7s with an open prefix or suffix depending on which i'm seeking
then once i only care about the t7 that has the affix i want, i turn those rules off
outer lily
I just saw that you can use the same condition twice, ok it's easy
affix - all - at least one with 7
affix - intelligence - any tier
chilly ember
like i know it feels weird to be fitering for t7s to havoc but early on it drastically improves your ability to get to that amount of gear in a very short time
outer lily
yes that should help me somewhat
chilly ember
and yeah if i'm short on havocs/i really need to hit something i'd definitely use the tunklabs havoc calculator to see if upgrading tiers is worth it
tardy bison
3 mod items with one t7 are basically any mod you want t7
just craft what you want t1 then havoc
chilly ember
yeah if i'm looking for single t7 prefix i'd also definitely have a separate rule for t7s with an open prefix, especially if it's a rare affix (i.e +levels to skills)
tardy bison
perfect 1lp slamming is easy as shit
outer lily
let's say I drop a 3 int 5/72
I can havoc for -20 fp per try
or I can run out of fp trying to align the tiers
chilly ember
like your tiers are 3/5/7/2?
outer lily
yes
tardy bison
and use the glyphs for -cost
outer lily
glyphs are placebo
tardy bison
20 fp every havoc is not true at all lol
chilly ember
but just upgrading that t2 to a t3 is going to reduce your costs, and even if it does eat all your fp, at least you wasted a single affix shard instead of a rune of havoc
outer lily
and you'll probably have to still use rune of refinement because prepare for that min roll
tardy bison
and pick up more exalt bases, I have like 20 tabs of bases
chilly ember
and you'll probably have to still use rune of refinement because prepare for tha...
i mean it depends
tardy bison
really just pick up double / triples now
chilly ember
if you're going from not having t7s to having t7s even a min roll is going to be a pretty substantial upgrade
outer lily
not in terms of cost efficiency
chilly ember
unless it's something like red ring the cost of single t7s and 1lp uniques is so low that the immediate power benefit is worth it
chilly ember
immediate power enables you to farm faster at higher corruption, which enables you to find better gear faster
so often even an upgrade like a min rolled t7 will enable you to get your better gear faster
even when you consider the resources spent
outer lily
I see
So now time to reroll and suffer through a bunch of slog and chores again lol
at least it's not scf anymore so rank stays, hooray?
chilly ember
i think you'll find that yeah you're gonna be a bit starved for havocs for a bit but you're still gonna get to that next step in your progression much faster which will surely be a lot more enjoyable
outer lily
the thought of redoing campaign, refarming blessings and releveling monoliths to 300c makes me want to fling myself out lol
chilly ember
do you have alt gear?
chilly ember
having alt gear is enormous qol
outer lily
the option to get blessings on alt char - but on min rolls only lmao - is like a slap in the face
or being able to skip the campaign - except you gotta go back and finish it anyway for the +2 stats
like whats the point
chilly ember
idk i think there's a few blessings that you really want max rolled but the difference between a min rolled blessing and a max rolled one for most blessings is a lot smaller than you think