⭕┃circle-of-fortune

[frosty pelican]

Sorc is strong enough that it can drop RR or Phantom grip and take a ring that gives nothing but MS and still speed clear 1K

[gray ermine]

yeah, ur probably right, there are other options for most classes for hyper mobility

I just feel like you'd typically need to invest much more to achieve that level of mobility lol... The ring itself isn't really bad when considering easy 2lp and penetration

[frosty pelican]

Even crab ring would be strong. Still gives swiftness but also +6 all attr and can roll 3 or maybe 4lp

[gray ermine]

yeah LP odds in general play a huge role in overall item strength

but swiftness isn't nearly as broken as Spirit Step has the potential to be

[frosty pelican]

Flames is also annoying to farm and relatively high LPL

[gray ermine]

??? it's so easy lmao

I have 215+ glyph of envy and have barely been looting them the last few days

[frosty pelican]

For us weirdos sure

[gray ermine]

guaranteed 1+ drops per kill at 500c based on my experience

[frosty pelican]

Oh I didn't get it every time

At 1k iirc maybe bad rng

[gray ermine]

idk drop rate seems near 100% for me at 500c, especially when considering the frequency of double drops

pretty sure I was like 9/10 minimum on kills/drops with occasional doubles (across 50+ kills)

[frosty pelican]

Also trio is awkward to kill for my build

I might be biased lmao

I just oneshot abberoth a bunch of times instead

[gray ermine]

yeah I just think it has the potential to be even more broken than it is for my build, especially for a build that could practically abuse 3 of the elements

oh u mean the boss xD... yeah I actually kill them faster than the others

[frosty pelican]

Yea I figured for static it's awkward because I still swap fractured to oneshot

And they obviously don't group close enough

[gray ermine]

actually I don't think any build could use all 3 elements anyway, but it's still insane xD... and yeah I just think it's weird to have that much mobility tied to a single ring slot...

[frosty pelican]

Might just farm them with Frost Claw actually lmao

[gray ermine]

Near spammable screenwide TP effectively on a 2s cd seems a lil sus

[frosty pelican]

Isn't Confluence of Fate when those elements? I forget

[gray ermine]

it isn't even range capped, so for me on a UW monitor it's really insane

it's edge of screen, even for me

[frosty pelican]

UW monitor literally p2w

[gray ermine]

has to be a skill, I don't think adding flat void damage gives void tag?

[frosty pelican]

I'm kinda joking but also not

[gray ermine]

it's true if stuff like this exists lol

[frosty pelican]

I mean for the pen

[gray ermine]

yeah I mean the pen goes up to 17% across the board, so whether ur playing Fire, Void, or Necrotic build it's pretty good

and yeah decent synergy with confluence

[frosty pelican]

I'd be sad to see it nerfed, then also get a meta shift at the same time. It seems unlikely this is what EHG wants

If both happened the item might suck

[gray ermine]

I just think it should be range capped if anything

shouldn't be unlimited/screenwide, maybe increase the CD to 5s per charge

[frosty pelican]

Yea that seems reasonable. Isn't tp also edge of screen for you?

[gray ermine]

err I don't think Transplant is truly edge of screen, would need to pay more attention

but yeah surprised I haven't taken note of that yet, I didn't play w/ transplant at all last cycle though

[frosty pelican]

Also couldnt I force UW using a normal display with like virtual UW

[gray ermine]

err yeah u could, if u want to play with black bars and be unable to read stuff without killing eyes

[frosty pelican]

Tp to me is teleport lol but I guess transplant makes sense

[gray ermine]

depends on in game settings, idk if u can force 21:9 in LE like u can in some other games

or maybe u can do it using 3rd party and/or monitor settings idk

[frosty pelican]

No I mean force 21:9 on my main display

[gray ermine]

yeah I'd assume there's a way to do that

[frosty pelican]

I don't think it should give an advantage though that seems problematic itself

[gray ermine]

I used to play Lost Ark in forced 21:9 before getting this monitor, but it was an in game thing

[gray ermine]

yeah I think UW has been an issue with stuff like that for a while, but they could just range cap it and problem solved? I think?

I also think CD should prob go from 4 to 5s

[frosty pelican]

I wouldn't mind a CD indicator of some sort

I'll be honest though I don't think the blink made that much difference in my favor farm vs the 20% movespeed, 16 int I slammed on it, and the 60% Inc damage it adds from WW

Warcamp is dense enough

For less dense echos or speed running in general yea. Can you imagine dropping that in a race at like level 65

[gray ermine]

as a mage it prob won't in general yeah, it's specifically broken for Acolyte and maybe Sentinel (Fire/Void builds specifically) ... As a mage u have easy access to CDR + TP

Definitely least valuable for mage, compared to Aco/Sentinel

I was planning to not use it at all on my Sorc, and focus more on TP/Flame Rush

[frosty pelican]

Mage also doesn't have as much access to damage while moving

[gray ermine]

yeah that too

[frosty pelican]

You should use on mage imo

Or at least get swiftness. If what EHG says is true about evade not adding speed swift is op.

[gray ermine]

yeah it does seem like ur having success with it, and yes swiftness itself is also really strong

[gray ermine]

also I think they said it was supposed to be very slightly net positive for traversal iirc?

[frosty pelican]

I thought they said exactly neutral

[gray ermine]

yeah I could be wrong about that, vaguely remember Mike saying "a slight boost" in a dev stream

but yeah my evade in general felt really bad as Acolyte (terrible/long animation) until running the ring for Spirit Step, I went from barely pressing spacebar to spamming it every 2s lol

Another thing that's OP about Spirit Step is even the baseline animation is just better, it's an instant short dash w/ no animation

it must provide some form of net positive movement for it to be functional w/ no iframes... I guess it could be slower on the backend to make it neutral overall, and yeah I was not a fan of evade in general, but Spirit Step can stay xD

[sick bluff]

small question for @frosty pelican , i'm trying to spend favor to get to 12 but there's a limit to prophecies ? is there a way to deal with this or is it cursed ,

[frosty pelican]

Cursed. If you are close you can try to proc a few

If you do, reroll for the more expensive ones

[sick bluff]

Eh, i ll just proc a few and hope it s enough

Thanks 👍

[gray ermine]

I think it's better to save favor starting around rank 10-11 and just rely on kill exp for rank 12 though?

better to hoard and spend at R12 afaik

[sick bluff]

It is what i did, i wanted to spend favor to get there but i didn't know there was a prophecy limit

[livid spruce]

Best to spend once you have enough to hit the next rank for that extra +5% favor. No need to wait for R12 to spend since that applies when the proph triggers, not on purchase

[gray ermine]

You still want to hoard as much as possible for after hitting R12 lol, that's beside the point

cap is 1 mil, book is limited, would be restricted on objectives based on which will certainly not be completed prior to R12, etc.

I didn't really start hoarding until 50% through rank 10 and still only had around 500m for R12

and certainly we can agree, that mathematically speaking, double is better than +5%?

[pliant ginkgo]

I feel like the cycle will be over by the time I get close to rank 12 anyway

[livid spruce]

It's not that important, hitting the rank is

[fleet badger]

How do you guys farm enough favor for spending on prophecies? since you can skip timelines a lot through glyph of envy its hard for me to maintain a lot of favor

[livid spruce]

When you hit the rank, you get both the 5% and the double on all your existing prophs

[solid seal]

XP = Favor, so find a balance between clear speed and Increasing corruption, then kill high rarity monsters. Online users can find Beacon echoes on specific layouts, clear the echo without completing the objective, TP out, then repeat. See FrozenSentinel's video #⭕┃circle-of-fortune message

[solid seal]

You get reputation from earning and spending favor (2:1 for each). Spending includes buying lenses from the vendor, gambling for items from the vendor, rerolling constellations on the telescopes, and buying prophecies from the telescopes. If you are at the cap of 48 prophecies, you should go do any that can be done or delete the ones you likely will never do. Completing prophecies simply gives you rewards and frees up a prophecy slot. You don't gain reputation for completing prophecies. Deleting prophecies only costs you the favor spent and the reward opportunity. For prophecies in campaign areas (e.g. Majasa/Liath) or have "none" for the prophecy location (mages, "boss", Diamond Matron, Siege Golem), you can simply teleport to town then teleport back to reset the zone.

[gray ermine]

getting double value from potentially 800-900k favor is actually pretty important lmao

as opposed to having had an additional 5% bonus for the same pool of favor when accruing it

ur basically lighting multiple hours of time on fire by not hoarding for R12, that is the effect

[solid seal]

what exactly does "double value" mean?

[gray ermine]

Twice as many items from R12 bonus, meaning you get double value from prophecies completed at R12, as opposed to a 5% faster accrual rate of the same pool if spending/not hoarding

less than 5%, considering you'd start hoarding early R10, and only miss the 5% bonus from R11 for roughly half the favor pool

more like 2.5% accrual rate vs. double value when spending, it's a no brainer... if you don't hoard the effect is hours of time "wasted" in the sense that u could have had way more value for that time spent

[solid seal]

But you can spend favor and not complete prophecies. You get the 5% bonus and you still have the prophecies to benefit from rank 12. It becomes really easy to not complete prophecies if you are doing any of the degenerate favor farming strats we do

and you get the rank 11 benefit for ~60% of that grind

[livid spruce]

Yeah, R11 is top tier. You're trying way too hard to try and squeeze out some efficiency or something by making it way less fun

[gray ermine]

ok but ur going to be very restricted on objectives if u want to take prophecies and not complete them while grinding for R12 lmao

900k favor is prob more than 2 full books depending on avg value of prophecies rolled

not interested in even arguing this tbh

do as you will

[hazy elm]

ye mathemically you need to save favor from rank 1, even if full 60% bonus applied to your favor all the time, saving it for prophecies on rank 12 is more profitab;e

[gray ermine]

I assume u meant rank 10*, and yeh

[hazy elm]

no its true even from rank 1

[gray ermine]

even for me (someone who is relatively good at farming favor/hr) I would be lighting 2-3 hours of time on fire minimum by not hoarding

[gray ermine]

favor cap is 1 mil, u only need to hoard from end of rank 9/early rank 10 and u will be close to cap for R12

[hazy elm]

ok ye, i didnt measure how much favor u gain from r 1-10 so u probably right

[gray ermine]

it's like R9.5 where ushould start, roughly

might be off by -/+1

[solid seal]

I lose out on what, 1-2 death of specific rare events, 4 death of boss events, 4 death of exiled mage events.

it's 750k rep to get from Rank 10 to Rank 11, 1.1M from Rank 11 to Rank 12. So 925k to get from 10 to 12.

[gray ermine]

... it's mathematically more time efficient, getting more value for time spent... as I said, best case scenario u are lighting 2-3 hr of time on fire (if u can grind 200k+ favor/hr like me), worst case ur ligtning 5-10+ hours of time on fire

if ur playing a build or at a corruption where u can't farm favor quickly

simple as, and I'm done

[frosty pelican]

I rushed 100 and as soon as I dinged I spent favor going from early R10 to R12

Since earning favor and spending favor are both equal components of rep you could spend to get the next rank quicker, but it's still based on xp so early on when you are gaining many +5%s you'll gain them faster by just getting to a higher character level than stopping to spend the tiny (relatively) amount of favor you have

Basically work on maximizing your xp gain by progressing, until you can dump to R12

This is likely a pretty elitist perspective though. Many players wouldn't reach 100 by like week 2 or 3, and not interacting with prophecies until then, even if technically more optimal, probably feels bad

[livid spruce]

Yeah, and CF isn't just prophecies, the ranks themselves are really good

[solid seal]

Yea, I see "immediate gear upgrade opportunities" being more important for most players leveling CoF than hoarding favor to hit max. Most players that make it to the faction unlock aren't even trying to hit rank 12. They quit before then

[frosty pelican]

I was thinking that, but honestly I found prophecies pretty unimpactful relative to normal drops during progression

R12 might be extreme, for people who do go hard it makes sense

Certainly I don't see the value of grabbing prophecies at like level 50

Each new rank takes progressively more rep (therefore) xp than the last, even if you bump gain by 5% that different is dwarfed by the difference in xp gain from increasing player level

[solid seal]

I wasn't talking specifically about prophecies. The faction rank benefits themselves give opportunities

[frosty pelican]

Are you saying to spend favor to get the next rank bonuses quicker?

[solid seal]

in essence, yea. Ranks 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, and 9 offer better and/or more loot opportunities useful in early leveling.

[livid spruce]

Yeah, outside the first couple ranks that you get just by blinking, I always dumped when I had enough to rank up

The ranks are super impactful when you play normally (i.e., not running one echo on reset just for favor)

[frosty pelican]

In early leveling you progress relatively quickly to higher levels where the rate of gain is higher, spending to get to the next rank to me feels like swimming against the current. Ultimately going to the following rank is gated by your character level, you could quickly sprint ahead by spending some favor now, but then you'll still need to get your rate of xp gain higher by progression to realistically reach the rank after

Just look at the xp charts on tunklabs by level

The curve is massive, from an efficiency standpoint I think you are just wasting your time, but if that's a preferred way to play that's totally fine

Once you reach level 90 you stop getting xp penalties in empowered mono so at that point imo you can make an argument for spending as your rate of xp gain increases won't be as rapid anymore

Also grats on your Lore race win @livid spruce

[solid seal]

Yea. I prefer spending to reach the next rank instead of hoarding to skip multiple ranks. From 10 to 12, I kill fewer monsters because of the 5% bonus at the cost of some prophecies not getting doubled by rank 12. The value I would have gotten from those completed prophecies shrinks the more prophecies I do at Rank 12, which is where I spend most of my time.

[frosty pelican]

By the time you ramp up xp gain to within the same order of magnitude you will be at most of the time playing you are already rank 9 or 10 naturally

You could spend from 10 to 11 before that, but I think the big value comes from 10 and 12 imo

Maybe spend from 9 to 10 once you get early endgame, then once you have enough for 12 spend again

I guess R11 is pretty good too, early on we lack exalts.

[solid seal]

R10 > R11 > R12: You get Rare-to-Exalt benefit for 60% of the grind. You get +5% favor from experience for 60% of the grind. Downside is you spend 375k favor for prophecies in which some will be completed without the Rank 12 doubling prophecy rewards benefit.

R10 > R12: You get a 925k favor pool to dump on prophecies at rank 12.

Since Rank 12 doubles rewards when they drop, not when you buy the prophecy, I think its worth the tradeoff.

[frosty pelican]

The % of the grind you get those benefits even if you don't spend is greater than 0 though

Wait you are saying it's worth to save, right?

[solid seal]

If I'm hoarding to go from 0 Rep at Rank 10 to 0 Rep at Rank 12, I'm never going to benefit from Rank 11. My bonus favor from experience is +50% instead of +55%.

[frosty pelican]

Ah yea right right

[solid seal]

I'm saying spend to get to 11.

[frosty pelican]

If you spent to 11 you would be able to do so sooner

Since you need less favor of course.

I guess I'm not convinced, the double prophecies seems stronger to me

[solid seal]

Once you hit rank 12, none of this matters. The perceived value we get from rank 10 to rank 12, whether its all rewards doubled or rank 11 availability, goes to zero the longer we play at rank 12.

[frosty pelican]

Well realistically it means that the saver might have better gear on average once they reach 100 and redeem the favor all at r12

[solid seal]

And the answer to original question of whether to hoard or spend comes down to "it depends on your playstyle, gear, and build"

[frosty pelican]

Maybe, prophecies are less efficient for exalts than uniques

If your primary need is exalts id say r11 has more value

If we hypothetically assume either R12 or R11 have 0 value than it would absolutely not depend on any of those factors, but we don't really know exactly how much value those ranks provide

[solid seal]

We can agree Rank 11 is non-zero, right?

[frosty pelican]

Yea they both are

If R12 provides 100x more value than R11 the conclusion is different than the reverse

I'm asserting that generally R12 is significantly higher value

[livid spruce]

Thank you! 😄

[solid seal]

you mean vs rares, right?

[frosty pelican]

I just mean in general prophecies are not a great way to get exalts either via rares or naturally

The price is too high relative to natural drops compared to uniques

If all you want is exalts I'd say rush R11

If you want to craft legendaries I'd save for R12

Basically I'm saying for your overall rate of acquisition for new gear, what you want changes what you should do.

That's assuming R11 even has high value for exalt acquisition relative to the bad acquisition from prophecies which may or may not be the case, I'm just assuming it is

[gray ermine]

This is true, in terms of it "feeling bad", but either way hoarding as much as possible for R12 (up to 999k) is ideal

time disparity in terms of how long it'll take to reach X value based on time investment/style of play is beside the point, either way maximum value is achieved by hoarding as much as possible to spend at R12

meaning the player always is going to get more value for time spent by doing this

I would agree that for more casual players not taking any prophecies for potentially weeks at a time would feel terrible though

[solid seal]

999,999 favor grind without rank 10 sounds no bueno

[gray ermine]

pretty sure I started hoarding around R10.5 and only ended up with 500-600k, meaning I think ideally I would've started hoarding around R9.5-10

[frosty pelican]

What it depends on is what % of item acquisition comes from prophecies vs normal gameplay.

Let's imagine you only want uniques. If you farm for uniques then spend all your favor on uniques, what % of your total uniques found were from prophecies vs monsters, echo rewards, etc.

If that is a 90 / 10, it vastly changes our perspective vs 10 / 90

[gray ermine]

How is that relevant?

You're always getting more value for favor spent at R12

[solid seal]

999,999 favor pooled = 1,999,998 rep when favor gets spent. That much rep could get you to 12 from 9.5

[gray ermine]

The only valid argument really is if you have very easy to hit upgrades that would provide significant power boosts and aren't already at a point where ur farming comfortably

[frosty pelican]

It's relevant because if 99% of your items innately come from monster drops, then multiplying that 1% that doesn't by 2 is negligible

[gray ermine]

That isn't even close to being the case

[frosty pelican]

It's not that's why I said thats what the value of R12 depends on

It depends on how GOOD prophecies are, and I think they are very good

[gray ermine]

and either way you're still going to get double value for favor spent vs. a 2.5-5% additional accrual rate for the same favor pool by not hoarding and pushing R11 faster

hoarding is just mathematically better at a base level??? I really don't see ur point here

[frosty pelican]

I'm arguing in favor of hoarding

[gray ermine]

OH my bad, think I misread you xDD... and yeah either way it would still technically be better, the relevance would vary based on those values

[hazy elm]

on some builds you really want to get to boss drop rank super fast if their main uniques are from bosses, in that case i wouldnt hoard untill i get that rank

[gray ermine]

yeah I can see some valid arguments against hoarding to a certain degree, very niche though

[hazy elm]

otherwise i would always hoard as soon as i can

[frosty pelican]

My point was that how good prophecies are relative to natural drops depends on the items you primarily want.

If you want exalts for example, R12 provides less benefit than if you want uniques.

That's basically exalt acquisition from prophecies is innately worse

[gray ermine]

if u have really huge upgrades that ur likely to hit easily that could also be a factor in spending a bit earlier

[solid seal]

not caring about boss-specific drops seems like the niche case

[hazy elm]

depends, not every build NEEDS lp uniques, usually getting 0 lp is enough

[frosty pelican]

It wasn't niche for me and most people grinding to 100 as fast as possible lol

[gray ermine]

yeah, this is true for sure, simply because exalts drop at a very high rate compared to uniques

[frosty pelican]

Bossing comes later it's not xp efficient lol

I did kill a lot of bosses on my road to 100 but that's because I'm a noob and wasn't doing the race correctly

[gray ermine]

I didn't even play day 2 lol

[hazy elm]

wdym? isnt pushing corruption the best way? and u kill lotsa bosses doing that

[gray ermine]

24h Abberroth rush burned me out good... Sad thing is I think I could've had R1 Acolyte with 0 prep had I not gone for Aberroth lol

[frosty pelican]

I killed 9 harbies and did a bunch of random stuff in different timelines by the time I hit 100

My xp/hour was at least 1.5x higher than any of the other top 5 mages to my knowledge at the end

Correct play is to get xp blessing then push a timeline to 300 and speed farm

[gray ermine]

I could've rushed Imp Warcamp, pretty sure with my strat I would've hit 100 insanely fast had I not rushed Abberroth xDD

because yeah, I would've basically gone for a setup between 300-500c in the first 12hish

rather than leapfrogging each timeline and going back to 100c/clearing normally zzZZzz

[frosty pelican]

Yeah I settled on millow marsh at the end

[hazy elm]

i mean u do that unlock emp and push 1st timeline to get blessing and 300 cor, but why stopping at 300? whats the point instead of pushing 600+

[frosty pelican]

My 99 to 100 was about 3H which is extremely fast

[gray ermine]

think I did 99-100 in 3h in Ritual Lake @ 300c

but Imp Warcamp is significantly better I think

[frosty pelican]

I did willow marsh

[gray ermine]

I ended up just settling cause it was day 3 and I didn't really care

[gray ermine]

don't think I've ever tested that layout

[frosty pelican]

After 300 you only get 25% xp scaling, it's not worth until your gear is good

[gray ermine]

but yeah I was too burned out day 2 and ended up finishing up day 3 anyway, missing Abberroth by 0.5% also kinda tilted me into the 10th dimension

[frosty pelican]

I failed abberoth tbh and kinda tilted

[hazy elm]

tilted gamers 😏

abberoth so ez on hp builds with leech

[gray ermine]

yeah I started pulling at 24-25h and burned all 10 eyes, almost killed on 3-4 attempts (sub 13% with 12% cull)

in hindsight there were some optimizations that had I made at the time, I would've killed him even with no gear

[frosty pelican]

I got abberoth to 18% and had a last laugh to execute but messed it up

[gray ermine]

yeah final phase is rough with 0 gear, dps check seemingly

aftter I revisted the fight I guess it isn't as hectic as it felt on day 1 though

[frosty pelican]

The problem was that I assumed everything was a oneshot so put way too much effort into dodging

But most of the stuff you can just ignore and maintain dps and ward

The visuals kinda misleading

[gray ermine]

yeah I think the animations and visual clarity in general were a bit of a pain point for me initially, but I had been up for 24h+ at that point xD

overall I think the fight is pretty well done, and yeah I would agree that a lot of the stuff does less damage than one would logically assume

most stuff was one shotting me though, or very close... but my gear was also really bad

[frosty pelican]

Yea CoF issues

Anyway I rage quit after that, came back after the weekend and did it easily on a fresh mind

Honestly was pretty smooth once knowing what to do; https://youtu.be/4weDwFp0_J0

[gray ermine]

yeah same, I ended up just farming my Nihilis later on

yeh I'm like 1/40 on deaths since revisiting at higher gear levels xD... one death was due to afk brain

once u have gear it really isn't bad at all, day one it felt rough

[gray ermine]

@frosty pelican do u have a build guide for ur new clearing setup? I'm assuming it isn't the most recent static orb one?

just curious because it looks pretty different from other setups I've seen u run and kinda insane

might need a fallback plan for my Sorc to farm for arena build

also nvm I see the build planner is linked in the vid my bad

[frosty pelican]

Working on a guide with latest changes

[pliant ginkgo]

let me see if I understand, I just need to get a beacon and kill things then start the beacon, kill things until like 30% and leave then repeat? Are all beacons with specific layout? And what does it mean I need to find a beacon with specific layout, mean literally a specific layout or that beacon maps doesn't change with resets?

[outer nacelle]

beacon map will be random, but you want imperial warcamp which was the one they are doing. other suggested maps which are good are willow marsh and ritual lake. reign of dragons has all these 3 maps so if your goal is to find a 'good' usable beacon map, then reign of dragons is the timeline to choose

[pliant ginkgo]

ty

[outer nacelle]

but the timeline you choose also dictactes the mob type, so i think the best one they have found was fall of the outcasts imperial warcamp

once you find the beacon with one of the good maps, then you need to find 2 40% experience nodes, like enrage. then take them back to back so you have 80%, then do the beacon

[livid spruce]

We'll see how long it goes until they break that method. I was surprised how quickly they hit the boss one lol

[pliant ginkgo]

tbh leveling faction rank takes way too long, let alone doing it on all cycles without methods like that

[livid spruce]

Yeah, they shortened it and it's still too long. R12 is roughly equivalent to getting 1 char to level 100, which they don't expect most people to do.

It was originally intended to be a long term meta progression thing, but it is kinda a feelsbad thing since it results in people avoiding certain parts of the game until they unlock the bonuses

[sinful orbit]

Can someone help me? I've been all up and down Maj’Elka but can't seem to find the observatory to activate prophecies and such... Sorry, only been there once and didn't really pay much attention to it

[pliant ginkgo]

yea, I play around 4 hours a day, sometimes more on weekends, I don't think I will even get to 12 lmao

[outer nacelle]

im all for them breaking the method if it means they bump up favour gain across the board to compensate. doing the same sh1t over and over is pretty tedious

(they'll break it and give us nothing)

[pliant ginkgo]

classic

[pliant ginkgo]

open the map, on divine era (I think) there is a waypoint to the observatory

[sinful orbit]

Oh, thanks.. google was telling me imperial era 🥹

Found it, awesome, thanks

[livid spruce]

tbh, CF feels pretty fine to me without abusing it

[frosty pelican]

How many weeks should it take a top CoF player to get the gear of a day 3 top MG player 😛

[hazy elm]

ya ngl i still dont understand that logic behind nerfing 0.001% top cof players, who exactly was upset that people earned thousands of favor in 3k cor? i didnt see any of those people

[frosty pelican]

It's likely the perception of missing out

[livid spruce]

I don't recommend comparing them like that, I mean it would be silly if CF gave you the drop rate of 100k players or so farming stuff

Yeah, FOMO and burden of optimal play do affect things

[frosty pelican]

Just because I'm comparing them doesn't mean I think they should be equal, I am just using comparison to ask how big should the disparity be?

[pliant ginkgo]

with or without gold dupe

[frosty pelican]

I am not talking about the dupers, I am talking about the reputable people that we see

and this was before that iirc?

[livid spruce]

You can't really compare them, that's the problem - I feel like CF is already making tons of loot drop and going overboard on it just hurts the experience. If they make any improvements to the faction, it needs to be more targeting ability and not more loot imo.

[frosty pelican]

If more loot for CoF hurts the experience, wouldn't that be true for MG as well?

[livid spruce]

Like the lens issue where we really only have one lens slot (not that lenses are really a huge problem, but you know)

[livid spruce]

Yeah, but they don't have that problem because they don't have prophecies that cover your screen in exalts or what-have-you

[frosty pelican]

I am personally okay with the rate that I acquire uniques now btw, so I don't totally disagree with your targeting point bringing up some pain points, but I play waaay more than the average person so YMMV

[livid spruce]

they have ultra-focused targeting, which is the area CF should get buffs in, if anything

[hazy elm]

i initially agreed that its not fair to compare them, but imo we should to a certain extend imo cof tryhards should be able to reach any lp items that have lp chance in hundreds(not thousands) and its fine that for example in cof you can expect 2lp titan heart while in MG u can get 3 lp easily. the issue is that it shouldnt take THAT much time imo

[frosty pelican]

Comparison is absolutely reasonable because the difficulty of the game is balanced around player strength and vice versa

If the gap becomes too large the difficulty of the game for either faction diverges

[livid spruce]

Fair, LP is a problem... idk how to address that, but really I think MG makes it way too easy so I'm on the opposite side there

[hazy elm]

especially in this season i experienced that it hard to minmax on mg on underepresented classes like sentinel/primalist and cof was actually more profitable to play. In this cases the comparison becomes even more unfair cause you can get meta build going on MG, but cant do anything if you have no items to buy on the market cause nobody bothered playing your class/build

[frosty pelican]

MG naturally will have a much better experience with non meta builds, you could gear your character for cheap, make a video showing how insane the build is, then the next guy wouldn't be able to afford it. CoF doesn't care what is meta

[hazy elm]

depends what kind of offmeta

[livid spruce]

When LP was first introduced, it was a super great system because it just maybe gave you a chance at upgrading uniques, etc. and it never felt like you needed it. Now people seem to expect it, and not just 1 LP, and that's kinda not good because high LP items are really OP

[hazy elm]

if its offmeta on class that has meta build 100000% true and u are set easily,if not it can be rough

[frosty pelican]

Also each new source of loot buff that applies to both factions, indirectly benefits MG more than CoF, eg. Nemesis IMO

[hazy elm]

for example all non mana stacking mages/rm had a blast this season

[livid spruce]

kinda pushes all builds to be 100% unique items with high LP in every slot if you want to be "the best" or whatever

[frosty pelican]

Each layer of RNG multiplies the difference between the two and new item mechanics add layers of RNG

[pliant ginkgo]

speaking of prophecies, are the drop from them tied to the timeline you're in when you complete?

[livid spruce]

Kinda, your corruption apparently affects LP chance. Nothing else, though.

[pliant ginkgo]

but not what uniques you get?

[hazy elm]

tbf not really i was minamxing several druid builds recently and helm/body bases and sometimes other slots like relic/belt/boots do matter to be exalted, same for sentinel builds. I think full LP builds are more of mages/acolyte territory

and mainly cause those classes rely on ward

[frosty pelican]

My main concern is that I don't want CoF and MG players to eventually end up playing two totally different games. It didn't seem like CoF was intended to be hard mode or MG be easy mode when they were first announced, akin to SSF in PoE or whatever

They went to great lengths to differentiate on CoF NOT being SSF

I do think skilled MG players doing the market thing effectively and committing the time and effort should be rewarded with a better experience when done correctly vs CoF

[hazy elm]

i think we wont end up there as long as they dont revamp whole lp system, what they need is add more qol for cof and buff the 0.1%grind there imo. But i also really want to see them making all ranks of cof available for casuals, imo it will definetly keeep more people in the game for longer time

[livid spruce]

Right. Being in a particular timeline never affects which random drops you get

[livid spruce]

Primalist and sentinel do have some really great bases, but as more uniques come out every patch, optimization is going to shift more and more to legendaries

Like decaying skull is suddenly super sweet

[hazy elm]

as long as they dont add uniques with top tier bases it will never go in full lp territory imo

[frosty pelican]

The existing uniques also end up aging a certain way relative to new stronger bases

[livid spruce]

I think both factions are playable and fun, so to me that's a success. When it comes to being competitive overall, you gotta do MG and I don't think that can ever change without making MG awful

I still feel like the game is really easy in CF, but maybe that's because I'm used to not having trade

[hazy elm]

it already did tho, this season for example look at sentinel ladder there are 0 shield bash builds, even tho that build can go to 1k waves easily, the only reason we dont have it cause very few people could snatch gear on mg, and nobody plays it in cof

[livid spruce]

tbf arena sucks

[hazy elm]

well its just an example that mg=competitive isnt always true, i think that would be true statement as long as every class had top tier meta build

[noble wedge]

Ehg has gone blizzard route on this. The boundary pushing 0.1% of players are not in their interest. As evidenced by polling and basing game defining decisions around said polls

Dont expect le to service you as a minmaxer

Enjoy while it lasts

[gray ermine]

Largest pain point of CoF, by far, is legendary crafting in general... Everything else feels pretty good to me atm and I'm pretty sure CoF was net buffed in most regards this cycle (especially at the lower end)

LP system will never feel good if left entirely to RNG, need some form of bad luck protection/fail safe

[hazy elm]

well the issue we have now with factions is that there are very few people who even reach rank 5 or 7 of those, so they shaft top 0.1% while vast majority doesnt even get to engage with all the cool staff that makes factions interesting. so they kind fail on both ends

[noble wedge]

Yeah i agree

[livid spruce]

Maybe, I still think MG would probably have it easier if they tried. Arena is super niche (if anyone was trying to push that build for arena, it would at least show up somewhere).

[gray ermine]

I also think that not hitting R12 until after lvl 100 is really bad for sure, the largest ranked bonus payoff for CoF being so heavily time gated is pretty bad

[hazy elm]

ye i agree they need cof rank 12 to be: exalted affixes are twice as likely to be slammed on LP items 🙏

[noble wedge]

I was generally happy with what they changed for cof EXCEPT the order of the rank bonuses

[gray ermine]

Or they could add some system for targetting a specific affix to get some form of additional weighting with each subsequent fail, tagging it specifically to exalted affixes likely wouldn't be clean enough, and it would need to be isolated on a per item/LP value basis to avoid abuse

I'm sure there are multiple ways they could make the system more deterministic

[hazy elm]

100% agreed, COF is a system that heavily inspires people to play, everyone loves loot explosions casuals or not. Thats what keeps people more than progression, its a really bad design and hope they will rethink it

[gray ermine]

Considering how integral LP is to character building (to even be semi competitive) leaving it completely to RNG is just not okay

It really shows a complete lack of respect for the players time

[livid spruce]

imo LP being integral to character building is the problem

[gray ermine]

It's an unavoidable one, and they already opened the can of worms, so

[hazy elm]

welll...with MG in the game its a bit too late for that

[livid spruce]

Yup

[noble wedge]

Yeah this is what they didnt want to happen

Ofc people will want the LP items if the system exists

[gray ermine]

Idk how they ever expected this to play out any differently, it was a given from the beginning

[noble wedge]

Ofc people will push the games boundaries through gear

[gray ermine]

or at least it should've been

[hazy elm]

did they? afaik they always wanted us to have inventory to be a rainbow of mixed things set/lp/exalted items, so i dont think they are against it

[noble wedge]

I think they are against the average player feeling they need lp

[hazy elm]

i dont think so after they introduced nemesis, everything has lp kinda

[noble wedge]

it should be a bonus but its rng

[hazy elm]

if anything they made it worse, avvarage 1.1 casual is a guy who doesnt really understand how build works but has 7 nemesis lp uniques equipped with bad slams 😅

[gray ermine]

I've thought about that, and I think there are issues with having it add weighting to any exalted affix for inheriting when considering multi LP + exalt items

ideally the player would be able to choose an affix manually to add an additional weighting to on each subsequent fail

[noble wedge]

Yeah i mean you can get bad luck for the whole duration of a cycle too

[misty pawn]

farming 2lp wrongwarp - besides prophecies - what else should i do?

[gray ermine]

more prophecies

[hazy elm]

and more prophecies

[gray ermine]

wand drop rate blessing, but odds of getting from a random drop are... bad..

[hazy elm]

tfw wrongwrap is so good that i have to use it even on werebear

[gray ermine]

yeah it's just a wrongwarp meta and u can snapshot it xDD

saw this coming immediately btw (not Wrongwarp specifically, just hyper mobility meta)

[hazy elm]

but tbf its super niche still, only few builds use it as bis

[gray ermine]

it's the most obvious counter to lower corr ceiling for exp scaling

[gray ermine]

yeah, but the fact that u can snapshot the buff is ??? and means anyone could technically use it (and prob shoudl be) for rushing anything really

[hazy elm]

snapshot buff?

[noble wedge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/435244693505310731/1267667810503364751/image.png?ex=66ab9966&is=66aa47e6&hm=710d0d6e5a9d8b31b40045dcb625ea2f9988eca9fac1966cc9ea675e8493a162&

[gray ermine]

if u change weapons u keep the 10s buff

[noble wedge]

Nemesis gave me 3lp through empower

[gray ermine]

nvm I forgot only Acolyte/Mage can activate Chronowarp

but yeah if u want to get really degen u can activate Chronowarp and then swap to Ladle or something every 10s

[misty pawn]

right. dont need a 2lp wrongwarp when i can get 3lp ones

[noble wedge]

You want 0lp ones

[gray ermine]

Yeah, tell that to my Mortality's Grasp

I've pulled like 6-8 pairs of Rav Void, x4 pairs of 4lp Phantom Mire and haven't pulled a single pair of 3lp Mort Grasp in the same timeframe

[noble wedge]

yeah all my nemesis empowered grasps have gone to 1lp

[gray ermine]

cause high rarity tier and high chance of 1lp, guaranteed 1lp drop for me at 1kc

[noble wedge]

Same for chains of uleros too

[gray ermine]

I can't even get 0lps Grasps to empower, they all drop as 1lp

[noble wedge]

F

[gray ermine]

I pulled 3 pairs of 3lp early on, failed all 3, can't pull more apparently

[peak smelt]

Every time you drop a 1lp unique just pretend it was a 0lp and you empowered to 1 lp and the second empower did nothing

So now the fact that it dropped as 1lp actually saved you time

[misty pawn]

game seems much mroe rewarding if we look at it this way

[gray ermine]

not being able to empower 1lp seems like it was a pretty big oversight for CoF lol

so many items are nearly impossible to roll 0lp on with CoF rank bonus

[livid spruce]

Actually true 😂

[outer nacelle]

did they consider making 1lp empowerable?

[peak smelt]

No

And it shouldn't be

[gray ermine]

iirc Mike eluded to it in a live stream? or maybe I'm trolling

[peak smelt]

Don't think so? Maybe I'm the one trolling though

[gray ermine]

as in eluded to it being a possbility in the future, and yeah it would be too strong without some minor reworking

[peak smelt]

Would be very weird imo

[gray ermine]

the issue is that it is specifically bad for CoF, due to the double LP rank bonus

[outer nacelle]

also julra items

[livid spruce]

If it allows 1 LP uniques with the CF tag to be put in by erasing the 1 LP, it'd be okay

[gray ermine]

There are many items that are nearly impossible (or actually impossible) to roll 0lp on, especially at higher corr

[peak smelt]

I already described how I see it so in my eyes dropping 1 lp is just better than 0lp, because a 0lp might as well just roll some trash tier 3 affix or just get only 1 lp anyway and you just wasted time empowering it

[noble wedge]

This is a good solution imo

[gray ermine]

yeah exactly, something liek that... 1lp can be empowered, but it rolls from 0lp until hitting at least 1lp from empower

that would actually be the best solution I think

[peak smelt]

That seems kinda op

You'd basically roll lp twice

When you already have double lp chance

[gray ermine]

well it would be OP in the sense that ur getting more 0lps to empower

[livid spruce]

It's maybe a too-complicated solution, and yeah 1 LP is already pretty strong kinda technically

[gray ermine]

but not being able to empower 1lp at all is specifically terrible for CoF, due to double base LP odds

[peak smelt]

Idk I guess I just don't see it that way lol

[gray ermine]

it would just be allowing you to roll the item as if it were 0lp, but having more empower attempts itself is strong so yeah

[peak smelt]

Exactly

[livid spruce]

True, kinda, you get an extra chance at 2 LP. I don't think it's game breaking though considering MG can just buy 3-4 LP

[hazy elm]

make lpl affect chances of slamming exalt affix, tldr the higher lpl the lower chance u miss the slam

[noble wedge]

At the moment im disappointed if 1lp drops. Because empower has higher potential to be usable

[gray ermine]

it is specifically bad for CoF in terms of potential value provided, especially if empowering rolls LP how I believe it does

[peak smelt]

I mean yeah CoF could get buffed and no one would complain tbh, but I don't think this is the way to do it

[gray ermine]

meaning that on the 2nd empower, it rolls from current value, not 0 lp, if higher than 0lkp?

[gray ermine]

it's just odd that there's an espect of a cycle mechanic that specifically favors MG

it's mathematically impossible to pull 0lp on a lot of items as CoF to even get empower attempts

[livid spruce]

The real issue is that some items, once you have the CF bonus, you can just never use in the egg (other than Julra's)

[gray ermine]

u see no issue with that?

[peak smelt]

I also think they don't wanna tie faction stuff to cycle mechanics and would rather them stay separate so if we get content in the future without nemesis you don't just have a dead rank or whatever

[peak smelt]

I really don't, empowering can't give you anything that lp cant

[gray ermine]

that's beside the point, this wouldn't be tying them together in any way lol

[gray ermine]

... you can empower a 0lp twice

CoF specifically cannot pull 0lp for many items due to it being mathematically impossible cause of rank bonus

[peak smelt]

Sure

[gray ermine]

okay, so there is counter synergy here

[peak smelt]

But in exchange you get more 2 and 3 and 4 lp

[noble wedge]

Like i said 1lp is a bummer, because 0lp can get actually good. It shouldnt be like this

[gray ermine]

it's still a downside because 0lps can be empowered twice lol...

[peak smelt]

Idk this doesn't compute for me, feels like you'd almost rather not have the extra lp chance just so you can empower more or something

[gray ermine]

ur only getting to roll what would've been 0lp items once, and if the 2nd empower rolls from current value and not 0 again, that's insanely worse

and I'm assuming the 2nd empower does roll from current value

[peak smelt]

I hope you understand that each empower isn't the same as an lp roll

[livid spruce]

The only thing I don't like is that the faction bonus prevents you from interacting with Nemesis on certain items

[peak smelt]

It's not like a 0 lp getting empowered twice is the same as the item rolling lp twice when it drops

[peak smelt]

Yeah sure I can see that, not being able to play with the new shiny mechanic is a bummer but there's also still plenty of high lpl uniques you can put in there

[gray ermine]

I mean intuitively that would make sense, unless devs confirmed it has its own weighting

[peak smelt]

You just can't use it for the sake of getting lp on low lpl items, because you're already dropping them with lp

So I feel like we just wanna do work for nothing here

[gray ermine]

I assumed it roll based on the base LP odds for first empower, and also has chance to add an affix?

[noble wedge]

Yeah i mean i got t7 necro res and t5 dodge rating for chains of uleros from empower and ill take it any day over 1 lp lmao

[livid spruce]

No, it's different, but it is based on LPL still

[peak smelt]

Well yeah for sure but that's a 2lp

[livid spruce]

and if you fail the LP roll for the first empower, it can't get LP on the second

[gray ermine]

I mean so it's probably the same if it's based on LPL, at least roughly

[peak smelt]

If you fail lp it just slaps on a stat afaik

[gray ermine]

well yeah cause if u fail it will have added an affix and gone legendary

[peak smelt]

Which is why the quest uniques always get stats

[noble wedge]

yeah but you see the problem? The potential is higher and if all ur drops are 1lp from cof its an oversight

[peak smelt]

This isn't true xd

[gray ermine]

I'd be willing to bet the weighting on the LP odds are close to 1:1 and that being able to empower a 0lp twice is significantly more powerful than dropping a 1lp lol

[livid spruce]

The real question is... can we give WW items LP? 😂

[peak smelt]

What you guys want is a switch that says "all items that would drop as 1 lp now drop as 0 lp"

[gray ermine]

it just feels strange that some slots are at an automatic disadvantage due to CoF rank bonus when it ocmes to Nemesis

[livid spruce]

I have some 0 WW weaver items in legacy I've been tempted to science

[noble wedge]

Im not talking about legendary potential, but higher potential for better gear than 1lp

[gray ermine]

can pull infinite 0lp Boneclamors and Telf'uns to empower and hit a 3lp Boneclamor (which was prob insanely lucky)

but I can't pull gloves cause high rarity tier and easy LP

whereas I'd be able to buy infinite 0lp Mort Grasp on MG to empower, at least early

[hazy elm]

i think you should be able to put any lp in the egg and let it reset and roll as if its 0lp

[noble wedge]

👍👍

[peak smelt]

Idk to me this is a none - issue, like I literally cannot even fathom it being an issue but I understand that you'd wanna interact with the mechanic more and maybe would even want a CoF buff, both those things are very understandable

[gray ermine]

I agree that being able to empower 1lp isn't a clean solution because it would be a pretty huge buff, but it would certainly feel much better xD

[outer nacelle]

im with skurge, let us empower 1lp. but if thats too powerful, not the 1lps that came from nemesis, only the ones that dropped naturally with 1lp

[livid spruce]

Agreed, not a huge issue. Eggs are fun, though

[gray ermine]

It is actually an issue, assuming empowering and LP odds are closely correlated

[peak smelt]

Empowering is on average worse

[gray ermine]

it makes Nemesis less valuable as a system for CoF

[noble wedge]

And it makes 1lp drops arguably worse than 0lp drops

[hazy elm]

it worse on 1 item but when you egg 50 items its different

[peak smelt]

Like if you had 100 items and you could choose to either roll lp on all 100 and can't egg the 0lp, or empower all 100. You should always roll lp

Literally always

[gray ermine]

but u can empower twice, and how the 2nd empower rolls is important... if I hit 1lp on first empower, I would assume that it rolls from 1lp for 2lp, etc., which is pretty strong

like on the 2nd empower u don't have to roll from 0 again I'd assume

[peak smelt]

Empowering twice is an illusion

Why would you ever empower once

[gray ermine]

err 99% sure I've gained lp on the 2nd empower...

[peak smelt]

Yes you can

[gray ermine]

how are u not grasping this?

[peak smelt]

But my point is that you'll always gonna empower twice

[gray ermine]

that is entirely beside the point

[peak smelt]

There's no situation where you empower once and stop

[gray ermine]

What matters is how the LP chance is rolled on the 2nd empower... and how it correlates to rolling LP normally

[peak smelt]

It's not because you're acting like you get two shots at something when in reality it's only one shot disguised as two

Yes it's lower

I promise

Naturally rolling lp is better odds than empowering twice

Always

[gray ermine]

You have direct confirmation of this?

Doesn't seem to be my experience

[peak smelt]

Not from an official source no, you can maybe ask and get it though

[outer nacelle]

hm, the amount of 2lp wrong warps and 2lp confluences from the egg would suggest that its pretty good chance of getting that, compared to the number of 1lp ones i've gotten. (anecdotal feels)

[gray ermine]

seems to be 1:1, yeah I just outright disagree with you then

and I'm also willing to bet I've pumped out 10x more favor and have empowered 10x more items

I think u just entirely fail to grasp my point, but it's okay

[peak smelt]

I wouldn't use any one persons experience as evidence for this

That's not what I'm doing

[noble wedge]

How bout many peoples experience

[livid spruce]

If they made it 1:1, it would just be a huge multiplier on LP chance for literally everything, seems super unlike EHG

[gray ermine]

I've pulled 3lp Boneclamor, 2lp Nihilis (first empower), multiple pairs of 2lp boots, etc., obviously this is anecdotal

[peak smelt]

Sure if you get enough people together you'd get close to the actual number

[gray ermine]

but I've empowered hundreds of items and LP odds seem at least close to 1:1 and I'm pretty confident it's 1:1

[outer nacelle]

also rolling lp in the egg gets the cof bonus

[gray ermine]

being unable to empower 0lp it just a downside for CoF, mathematically, 99% certain of that

unless there's official confirmation stating otherwise

[livid spruce]

Have you recorded every outcome?

[noble wedge]

ill stand by what i said: getting 1lp drop feels worse than 0lp because of empower

[gray ermine]

no, but I'm usually pretty good at mentally tracking stuff

and there almost certainly isn't that much of a disparity, if any, or I am insanely lucky

[livid spruce]

Ehh

[gray ermine]

like absurdly ungodly levels of luck

LP also seems to be more likely on items with better LP odds over them just gaining a random affix ofc

[livid spruce]

Anecdote is not evidence, especially when it comes to rng

[gray ermine]

okay, but this is all speculation, he also doesn't have official confirmation

[peak smelt]

I don't have anything I can link to

[gray ermine]

the logical conclusion based on my anecdotal evidence, is a pretty tight correlation between empowering and actual LP odds

[outer nacelle]

you know it's frozensentinel/typecast spreadsheet time

[frosty pelican]

Items that are more likely to get a lot of LP from nemesis are the same items that are less likely to drop with 0LP because they already got LP. According to EHG 0LP is not better than 1LP because of Nemesis, apparently they did math and stuff

[peak smelt]

Yup

[gray ermine]

k I was just wondering if there was official confirmation, that's all

[livid spruce]

We already know for sure that you don't get corruption boost to egg LP

[noble wedge]

Yeah but getting 1lp feels worse because of the potential for highroll on 0lp

[gray ermine]

I'm still somewhat suspect based on my own experience, but heh

[peak smelt]

I hadn't seen them confirm it that's why I couldn't link

[gray ermine]

I'm too lazy to track thigns accurately, and would need an insanely large sample size for it to really matter anyway

[frosty pelican]

Mike did acknowledge on a reddit thread that they agree and are aware that even though 0LP might not be mathematically better they might still "feel" better, and that could prompt them to make changes to improve that feel

[gray ermine]

but for me there seems to be a pretty tight correlation between empowering and baseline LP odds, which would mean 0lp empowering is better than rolling 1lp from CoF

[peak smelt]

But yeah like I said if you had 100 items and you had the option of either:

Rolling lp on them like normal, not being able to egg 0lp outcomes.

Or

Having all of them drop as 0lp and empowering twice.

You'll want to do the prior option

[noble wedge]

actually, this cycle all my upgrades are through nemesis due to bad luck on drops

[frosty pelican]

Would you rather a 1LP Red Ring or a 0LP Red Ring 😉

[gray ermine]

this is the one exception, the top rarity tier

[noble wedge]

0lp all day tbh

[peak smelt]

Now what you guys wanted is to have a switch that's says "1lp items drop as 0lp" so you can empower them, which would be a buff I guess? Would be sad to brick a ravenous void or red ring because of it lul

[noble wedge]

Imagine the 2lp from empower oh my god

[peak smelt]

I mean you can get 4lp

From empower

[noble wedge]

Ofc

[peak smelt]

Won't happen

But you can always dream

Lol

[noble wedge]

Thats why id be happy to roll for 2lp, Wont happen either

[outer nacelle]

we dont want 1lp to drop as 0lp though, just be able to empower 1lp

[gray ermine]

to be able to empower 1lp as if it were 0lp*, which would still be strong though

[peak smelt]

Yeah that's kinda the same thing but stronger

[frosty pelican]

For the items that aren't "realistic" to get as 2LP, it's better to get your 1LP than "try" for a "chance" at 2LP that probably won't even result in a 1LP, then move on to the next item you are chasing

[peak smelt]

Tier 3 minion damage pog

[frosty pelican]

To be fair, one of my T7 int rings was from Nemesis

[peak smelt]

Sometimes lucky :p

[noble wedge]

same for my 2lp t7 necro res chains of uleros

And 3lp wrongwarp

[frosty pelican]

ah yeah my 3LP WW was nem too

[peak smelt]

Gz

[noble wedge]

And 2lp twisted heart

[frosty pelican]

damn lol

[noble wedge]

And 13 int boneclamor

[gray ermine]

2lp Nihilis and 3lp Boneclamor from Nem as well

[peak smelt]

I dropped a 2lp nihilis natty but it was only +1 sadge

[gray ermine]

obviously that isn't relevant, but even with that aside, in general LP odds seem to be pretty tightly correlated to baseline LP odds

[frosty pelican]

I mean technically nemesis gives you the opportunity to "super target" very specific things so naturally you will have some results to share for those items you choose to insert

[gray ermine]

I find it hard to believe 0lp empowering isn't mathematically better than rolling 1lp

[frosty pelican]

If I want an LP prismatic gaze, I'm only putting the 0LP prismatics in it, nothing else it's a lot of dice rolls over time

[peak smelt]

Yup

[gray ermine]

I made the mistake of empowering a garbage roll for luls, cause I didn't have anything else to empower at the time... regretted that decision

[frosty pelican]

I kinda just view it as a "oops, reroll"

[gray ermine]

and I already knew not to empower bad rolls, but lol 2lp Nihilis first empower

better to just banish for next shop over tilting myself

[peak smelt]

Yeah +1 nihilis is sadge

[gray ermine]

I hit my T7 1lp slam on a pretty well rolled one so w/e

[peak smelt]

A good omnis will usually just be better unless you really want some of the stats on it

[noble wedge]

Got 3lp ladle too from nem

[gray ermine]

Omni is a terrible bait item, but okay, Nihilis infinitely bettter

[noble wedge]

AND 3lp stygi

[gray ermine]

Omni most overrated item in game, noob trap

resists are the easiest thing in this game across the board

[peak smelt]

Eh just depends on your affix economy tbh, omnis can be good value on some builds that need to stack resists for reasons

I'm not saying it's a generally amazing item

[gray ermine]

Nihilis has a more universally applicable stat spread than random resist profile

idk resists are way easier than mana and %more armor, can also get up to 15% all res on Nihilis

I feel like it's just an objectively better item in the meta, unless ur insanely tight on suffixes

[peak smelt]

Yeah that's why I'm saying if you care about the mana and health you'll prob still go nihilis

[gray ermine]

Orians and crafted Oracle Amulet is better than Omni in most cases even I think

[peak smelt]

Just depends on what you need

[gray ermine]

I mean yeah, but resists in general are less difficult to get and are capped in terms of EHP inflation

Orians and Nihilis to me seem like they provide more obvious value considering the meta

or even crafted Oracle Amulet with T2-3 seal

[peak smelt]

If you have -300% resistance from a mourningfrost and need to spend most suffixes on resistances an omnis can be handy, but honestly at that point who cares about defense lul

[gray ermine]

Aside from niche use cases, yeah, I just think that it's less applicable than other optiosn and has been since cycle 1 launch

[peak smelt]

Yeah for sure, I think nihilis is way more universal

But I also think you'd need a pretty good one to warrant using a +1 over some other options out there

[gray ermine]

well ofc, but Omni is also really difficult to roll well, both items suck in that regard

was probably pretty lucky to hit my Nihilis within 30-40 kills, farming items like this is such a nightmare esp when considering LP

[livid spruce]

It's basically - if you already have a good 1 LP slam of an item, then further 1 LP drops are garbage

so egg will always be better then

[gray ermine]

that's also a valid argument for counter synergy between rank 8 CoF and Nemesis for sure

[livid spruce]

and yeah in that one niche case, the double LP chance kinda janks you a little bit (but still gives you higher chance at 2-4 LP of course)

[gray ermine]

there's a clear downside for CoF when it comes to Nem that doesn't exist for MG

[livid spruce]

right, or you can be simple like me and just want to dunk stuff in eggs

[gray ermine]

I just want my gloves man, this is another downside to playing at lower corr, farming higher rarity tier items

I pulled so many 3lp Mort Grasp last cycle, could pull them at will within a single day basically

it's been like 5 days of straight grinding without one pair of 3lp after failing my first 3 slams...

Pretty sure I've seen over 100 pairs in that timeframe as well, so just unlucky I think

Anyone know for certain if rarity affects the rarity tier of an item after it rolls unique? Unsure if it just means more unique items in general or actually affects rarity tier, wasn't a huge concern last cycle because the play was to push anyway

My assumption would be that it affects both

[livid spruce]

There is no real rarity tier of uniques, it's just reroll chance
So rarity only gets you more uniques on average

[gray ermine]

yeah I keep forgetting about that xD, makes sense

so it shouldn't really affect prophecy odds at all I'd assume

[peak smelt]

It has 0 effect on what unique you'll get from a prophecy correct

[gray ermine]

I was just outputting a lot more favor last cycle and also the old rank 10 meant 2 3lps on every 3lp drop

that's the one item this cycle that seems to be completely painful in comparison

[livid spruce]

It's definitely a buff for 4 LP items, for everything else it's basically the same on average

[gray ermine]

yeah ofc, 4lp and boss drops huge buff, mostly the same otherwise, but the time it took to push last cycle was also a factor

being able to push and start farming much quicker was also a pretty big buff overall

[peak smelt]

The new rank 12 is objectively better than the old rank 10, it can feel worse at times for sure though. Because when you do drop the good item your brain immediately assumes you would have dropped it before too, but instead of only getting one you'd have gotten two, when in reality if you average out an infinite amount of prophecies you'll get the exact same amount of any item over time

But with the new rank 12 you get them twice as often, but only one at a time

[gray ermine]

yeah I have no issues with any of the changes, pretty much all positive/made sense

but there are certain aspects of my gearing that are going to be a bit more... difficult...

3lp Mort Grasps plz lord if I fail the 4th slam I might have a moment

Might just be a 0 Armor Shred until after my break angle

[outer nacelle]

i dont if its just rng is rng, but i feel like the rarity from experimentals is way better this cycle. rarity in general, which in turn means better tier expriemetals too

[gray ermine]

The issue is I don't want to glyph craft for 2lp slam to do a semi arena run xDD

yeah idk I think LP system in general is always going to annoy me specifically, but I love the game in general

[livid spruce]

It's probably the double experimental item drops bonus that we got

[gray ermine]

LP in general for me is just ??? it feels more tilting and anticlimactic than rewarding most of the time idk

[pliant ginkgo]

even "worse" now because 0 LP is "better" than 1 LP because you can put it on Nemesis and pray

[outer nacelle]

yeah could be, but that's just double. i mean i'm comparing 1k corruption vs 3k last cycle. i never found t7 low life affix in like 800hours in cyce 1

[livid spruce]

Yeah, corruption doesn't have much effect on them since it's a static 1-per-mage

mage spawn rate increases up to a point, but it's already super high at 300c

[outer nacelle]

found my t7 low life this cycle, cept i dont it anymore. 😬

[gray ermine]

have u tried doing any actual mage farming? like via resetting @outer nacelle

seems like maybe they nerfed that somehow, but haven't actually tested it thoroughly yet

err wrong guy mb

I check every spawn when spamming Imperial Warcamp at 1k, and spawn frequency seems waaaay lower than when I'm clearing echoes normally

[outer nacelle]

nah no direct farming, just killing them as i encounter

[astral rock]

Hi, can anyone explain me do area level or corruption have impact on prophecies? If I kill boss Temporal Santum on T1 and T4 and finish prophecy, rarity of drop from prophecies will be the same?

[livid spruce]

Corruption affects LP chance very slightly, that's all

[sick bluff]

Extra question : For things that are boss drops only, prophecies can't make them drop even on those bosses ?

[livid spruce]

Right, prophs only generate random drops

[twilit jetty]

Can you gamble exalted stuff from cof dude?

[hazy elm]

yes

[twilit jetty]

Using just favor?

[jade orbit]

Can you get uniques like Red Ring of Atlaria or Orian's Eye from prophecy drops?

[hazy elm]

yes best way to get them

[jade orbit]

thanks

[wheat fox]

Is anyone else having a rune of ascendancy issue?

[outer nacelle]

what kind of issue

[wheat fox]

Its using 2 on me whenever I try to use one on a CoF piece

[outer nacelle]

first ive heard of that one, weird

literally the opposite of what its meant to do

[noble wedge]

i think its just visual, you dont really lose 2

[wheat fox]

ah ok ty!

you right! I appreciate you

[noble wedge]

np

[distant leaf]

Is there a place you can go to check which timelines contain certain enemy types? For example, immortal eyes?

[solid seal]

Tunklab's Bestiary - https://lastepoch.tunklab.com/bestiary
https://lastepoch.tunklab.com/npc/ImmortalEye

FrozenSentinel's Speadsheet - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DLiKBOApPtBBm5prr185HU-iYM9k28ENFgz-voXpB-4/edit?gid=537937136#gid=537937136&range=G71

If you make a copy of the document, you can even interact with the calculators
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DLiKBOApPtBBm5prr185HU-iYM9k28ENFgz-voXpB-4/edit?gid=31065040#gid=31065040

[mellow coyote]

are prophies per character?

[wraith hazel]

yes

[potent eagle]

@frosty pelican if you can't find a beacon echo with warcamp, do you just have to reset the echo web and try again?

[frosty pelican]

ye

[twilit jetty]

I'm using ritual lake, it's pretty good

[potent eagle]

On beacon?

[unreal hollow]

1. is it normal that I lost my favor when converting 1.0 to legacy? 2. Also, iirc I was at max rank (10?), now I am only at lvl 10 with COF, is that expected?

[twilit jetty]

yeah, it's like 4k-5k per speed clear

[livid spruce]

1. Probably
2. Yes, it should rank you up pretty much instantly when you get any xp or something, I think?

[cyan magnet]

is cof rank 12 retroactive?

[outer nacelle]

Yeah

[covert field]

Sorry what does the war camp mean? Is that a certain type of map tileset? Any reason we want it ? I’m trying to optimise my prophecy farm

[tiny coyote]

Is there any way to use gold when you're playing solo character found. Apart from stash tabs?

[foggy trench]

Yeah it'll say beacon warcamp or warcamp beacon

[noble wedge]

lightless arbor

[tiny coyote]

Thanks! So much to learn!

[quick perch]

does CoF rank 12 stack wit the greater lense that doubles drops?

[boreal schooner]

How to open CoF ??

[modern iris]

yes

[floral birch]

How can I farm favor? I'm kinda having a hard time dropping items and feels like it progresses slowly

[solid seal]

Kill monsters in empowered monolith echoes. You basically want to do the highest corruption you can that doesn't affect your clear speed. Get the Experience blessing from Abomination (Fall of the Outcasts) for more experience per kill which means more favor per kill. In echoes that are have multiple rare/miniboss enemy types packing the area, consider full clearing the area instead of bailing on echo completion.

[dire forum]

Where does Orian's Sun Seal come from, it is Harbringer only drops?

[livid spruce]

Anywhere high enough level, it's a random drop

[atomic cloud]

do prophesies stack up ?

[green spade]

Are the immortal Eyes prophecies bugged?

[livid spruce]

Yes

[livid spruce]

No, there's two different eye enemies that look really similar. One with a red eye and one with a necrotic-green eye, only one of them counts (I can't remember which, just look at the name bar).

[unreal hollow]

is it beneficial to kill Aberroth "early", with potential deaths and wasting of keys (like does it unlock something?), or is it ok to farm for better gear first for more secure kills?

[solid seal]

The only benefit to killing Aberroth is personal accomplishment or you need boss specific drops from Aberroth. The Forgotten Knights faction doesn't reward anything for killing Aberroth, just the 10 harbinger unlocks. I personally just zoomed to 8 harbinger unlocks then waited for gear to get the last 2 and Aberroth since I didn't care for Harbinger specific uniques and +1 gaze per harbinger kill. I did want the Blessings roll their value twice then pick highest benefit.

[unreal hollow]

thank you, I will farm some more gear then, I killed the 10, but I read that Aberroth is quite difficult compared to "normal" content

[azure ice]

Good rolls on the amulet makes it worth it imo.

[unreal hollow]

what is the drop chance of the amulet? the shade of orobyss amulet has horrible drop chance

[livid spruce]

Drop rates are all on LE Tools. I'm not sure if these numbers are already taking the double drop chance into account or not, though. https://www.lastepochtools.com/endgame/monolith/aberroth/boss-items

[potent eagle]

@livid spruce so I just screwed that item up because I didn't add a 4th affix before using despair to seal? lol

[livid spruce]

Sounds like it, yeah. Don't worry, I've ruined plenty that way, too, lol

[potent eagle]

except Ive been hunting for a certain exalt to slam my 4LP peak for days and that might have been it

[livid spruce]

It wasn't meant to be 😔

[solid seal]

You're likely going to end the cycle with that 4LP peak unslammed.

[potent eagle]

no I have to slam it asap because im gonna break for a month or two to play D4 S5 lol. Plus its only replacing a 3LP peak, wont be much diff just trying to get some decent suffixes

[solid seal]

I had a 3lp twisted heart last cycle and couldn't find an exalt that would have had a chance to be better than my 2lp twisted heart. I was pretty sad about that

[scarlet wing]

The ranked rewards have changed, is this worth buying? https://imgur.com/BlXsPAH (prophecies 15k favor 1 LP's item)

[wraith hazel]

No change here. But not worth usually

[solid seal]

Unique Melee Weapon (1 LP) with no doubling lenses equipped (1 use giving 1 reward) was 15k favor last cycle. Price goes to 27k (double use), 28k (double reward), and 51k (both double lenses). https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DLiKBOApPtBBm5prr185HU-iYM9k28ENFgz-voXpB-4/edit?gid=2080914423#gid=2080914423&range=H163

For the 1 LP prophecies, the way the reward is generated has changed this cycle. Last cycle, if the item rolled 0 LP, it would default to 1 LP. In this cycle, if the item rolls less than 4 LP, 1 LP is added to the item. There is also a pretty bad bug for some of these 1LP prophecies. For item types that have weaver unique items, those weaver unique items can drop as rewards for 1 LP prophecies.

[torn stone]

balista farming favor 310k+ per hour (lp2 gir)

[unreal hollow]

I could never make sense of those drop chances. For example see https://www.lastepochtools.com/db/search?query=omnis&in_description=1&exact_match=0. I have definitely killed dozens (possibly a lot more, not sure) of shades of orobyss at 200+ corruption, and no omnis ever dropped. Or is it 15% chance multiplied with the 6.12% chance for a 0 LP amulet? If so, why is it not given that way (0.918% for 0LP omnis), is it datamined from somewhere and stored this way there?

[livid spruce]

I didn't reverse engineer these drop rates personally, but my assumption is that the 15% is for a Shade at exactly 200c at the minimum natural Shade spawn distance from the center. Hitting the "catch up" Shade that's right at the center would probably have about a 0% drop chance, while really far Shades would have a much better chance. Not sure what your 6.12% number is coming from, I don't think we have any generic item type drop chances like that.

[unreal hollow]

thanks for your informative replies! above the drop chance, there are chances for legendary potential, though now I see I mistook it, as 6.12% is the LP1 (if you hover over the "Uncommon", this is what is given). In any case, it feels much lower than 15% to me, then even for a mere 20 kills I would have to be quite unlucky not to get a single drop.
And while it makes sense that "catch up Shade" does not drop this (somewhat, as it happily drops the other stuff like the boots or the ring or the axe which is 25% according LEtools and also feels a bit lower), it does not mention that it is lower than 15% under a certain distance from the center, just that it "increases with extra corruption above 200 and is higher the further the echo is from the center"
Out of curiosity, did you feel the drop rate is 15% (1 amulet per every 6-7 kills) on average?
Also, I if the COF bonuses (boss loot upgrade and enemy item drop chance, not sure what these were in the previous cycle) increase this chance, while it definitely feels lower than that...

[full fox]

i have started COF and i want to farm wrongwarp what profecies should i go for i am confused

[unreal hollow]

get unique wand prophecies if you can

from the weapon prophecies

[atomic cloud]

the south one, insert a wand lense there

[full fox]

do i need to be in the specific monilith for wrongwarp eg stolen lance?

[atomic cloud]

you ahve to fulfill the requirements, eg. if it requires you to kill the boss of a mno, then you ahve to kill them

[full fox]

no no

i am asking wrong warp only drops on stolen lance

will the prophecy work anywhere?

[atomic cloud]

wrong wrap can drop anywhere,

[unreal hollow]

anywhere, even in dungeons

[full fox]

and if i want to farm red ring i just pick the ring prophecy and complete it

even the prophecy is for dungeon

[unreal hollow]

I think so, but afaik red ring is quite rare

[full fox]

i see tysm and where can i get ppl to help me farm stuff

[unreal hollow]

you can do the winter timeline, that has ring specific rewards

[atomic cloud]

If the propjesy requires a dungeon kill, yes

[full fox]

ok

[livid spruce]

Ah, I see, yeah the LP chances are the rates that you get that amount of LP when one does drop. Definitely it's normal to feel that rng rates are worse than they actually are, which is why these drop chances were never officially released/confirmed by EHG (they tend to give rough qualitative measures when they do give info on random stuff). I haven't chased any of the Shade's drops specifically, but I imagine I'd feel like they are worse than they are if I did... which is how I felt when trying to get bane of winter lol, but I think the drop rates on LE Tools are accurate.

[unreal hollow]

then I am just really unlucky, so I'll keep farming to break it, it is a chill activity 🙂 I don't even know what bane of winter is, so it probably is somewhat rare/specific to stuff I don't visit 😄

[livid spruce]

Chillin is definitely the best farming method! Bane is the age of winter harbinger's drop, pretty niche item, but fun 😁

[solid seal]

Weapon reward prophecies are at the Eos telescope, the telescope to the East in the room (or you can click on any telescope and press the "E" button on the right side of the telescope panel to switch the Eos telescope). You'll want "Unique Wand" prophecies. There are two of them that can spawn. At Rank 0, you get the 4 use, 1 wand rewarded per use variant. At rank 7, the 2nd wand reward will start to appear. That prophecy has 1 use and rewards 4 wands per use.

[full fox]

And what lenses should i use i am at 7

[solid seal]

Rewards generated by prophecies ignore area/character level. So it's possible to get Wrongwarp in any level zone at any character level when you complete a prophecy event. Similarly, Rune of Ascendances also ignores area/character level when generating the reward, allowing you to craft rewards of an item type at any level.

For echo rewards and actual drops from monsters, an item can only drop if the area level is high enough. Wrongwarp doesn't have a "Minimum Level to Drop" tag, so its required level of 83 to equip is the minimum level to drop. The Stolen Lance timeline has Wands as one of its exclusive echo rewards. Normal Stolen Lance is level 62 with 0 corruption and 72 with 50 corruption. Normal Stolen Lance cannot raise its area level high enough to drop Wrongwarp.

[full fox]

Got it

[solid seal]

Use what you can afford. The popular lenses increase the favor cost of prophecies in exchange for effects that generate more total items rewarded.

• Greater Lens - Refracting Lens of Rhyme (Unlocks at Rank 7) - Doubles the amount of uses but increases favor cost of prophecies. Limit 1 Rhyme lens.
• Greater Lens - Refracting Lens of Wealth (Unlocks at Rank 8) - Doubles the amount of items per use but increases favor cost of prophecies. Limit 1 Wealth lens
• Regional Lens - Focusing Lens of X (Unlocks at Rank 2) - Increases Chance per Rank to find a specific item type. No limit. Useful for targeting a single item type.
• Greater Lens - Enhancing Lens of the X (Unlocks at Rank 4) - Increased Chance per Rank to find specific rarity Items. No limit. Useful for targeting multiple reward types of the same rarity.

Greater lenses can be used in any telescope. Regional Lenses for specific telescopes (since they target specific item type rewards).

[mellow nacelle]

When a gear in the telescope say it has 1 LP does does that mean at least 1 LP or that it can only be 1 LP

[solid seal]

#⭕┃circle-of-fortune message

[mellow nacelle]

With the favor cost do you think it is worth getting

[solid seal]

No.

[ocean iris]

Bruh 93k favor not even 0 lp fiery shoes

[scarlet wing]

thanks for clearly

[frosty pelican]

There was a soft confirm in ask devs a couple weeks back on LP prophecies being changed to apply 1LP after the roll, not before like 1.0. Have you or anyone else heard anything more on this?

It changes the math a bit if so, but I'd need confirmation before doing all the spreadsheet shenanigans

Likely still wouldn't be worth in the vast majority of cases but could be worth investigating

[livid spruce]

I strongly suspect it actually just works like Julra's uniques, i.e. basically worthless

Mike doesn't seem to be very familiar with how it works, which can make it tough to get a solid answer

[unreal hollow]

One additional thing to keep in mind is that 0LP items can be upgraded now, though sure, if someone wants to farm real high-end stuff (= they consider anything under LP3 or LP4 garbage), the +LP prophecy might be useful

[frosty pelican]

Yea that's my concern, we are getting pretty deep into the weeds with that type as far as very specific stuff.

@unreal hollow if anything your point about 0LP not being useless actually increases the relative value of the non LP prophecies since each item gets a "second chance"

+LP might be interesting for otherwise "unobtainable" items like 2LP Orian Eye on the very very far end of minmaxing once you've already got everything else, but I'd wager the favor per item is still worse

The best potential candidates like RR don't even have a specific LP prophecy (there is no LP ring proph, just LP jewelry which nukes the favor efficiency if you want a specific thing)

[livid spruce]

Yeah, I think even if it did add 1 LP to the final, it would be sus at best

[solid seal]

He was asked on the 14th whether it works like Julra's Uniques or if it adds +1 lp and his response was the new way. Then he answered the same question the other way a couple days after that. Either situation, the prophecies are still too expensive for a chance at 8 item drops with lenses + rank 12, and that's before the bugged weaver uniques dropping.

[solid seal]

We should probably ring test...

[frosty pelican]

There is no LP ring prophecy xd

I think a confirmation would be if a very low LP level drops as 1LP then it's not adding after, if it rolls first, the low LPL should always get at least 1LP since it's guaranteed with CoF bonus, then +1 after would mean 2LP minimum is guaranteed.

If it rolls second then it would get 1LP for free then roll for 2LP which wouldn't be guaranteed

Anything with 50% base LP chance or more should never drop under 2LP from 1LP Prophecy if adds after

[solid seal]

ah yea, that's right, it's jewelry for rings(+amulet)

[willow mason]

hey , i'm stuck for days now on a prophecy for killing void horrors , do they appear only in specific monolith timelines?

[onyx venture]

I run into them pretty often in Black Sun.

[livid spruce]

Yeah, only in the three void-themed ones

[outer nacelle]

are there any good ways to degen farm nemesis?

[worn frost]

there are good echoes to repeatedly farm it

forgot tho since i don't actively do it. i just play normally

[solid seal]

Monolith Only. Can randomly spawn in echoes as an enemy in Black Sun, Fall of the Empire and Last Ruin timelines. Can randomly spawn from Void Gate echo objectives. 1-3 appear in the Last Ruin optional quest echoes "The Defiled Wood" and "The Voidscarred Archive". You can clear the area then teleport out to repeatedly do them. Just never complete the final quest objective for the echo.

[solid seal]

Same rules as exiled mages last cycle. Corruption and distance from the center of the web increases the spawn chance of objects.

Necropolis Streets was a popular area ran for mages last cycle

[outer nacelle]

i thought they changed streets layout, wonder if its still good for this

[solid seal]

they created a western player spawn point on each end and made the center a loop. I believe the new spawn points also have 2 object spawners near them

[solid seal]

Other linear maps used by mage farmers were Solarum Ascent, Sinking City, Flooded Cavern, Lakeside Trail, Sealed Archive, Ruined City, Midnight Strand

[outer nacelle]

thanks, will keep an eye out

[indigo zodiac]

So is it impossible to add T6 and T7 movement speed to legendary boots through the temporal sanctum or does this game just desire me to suffer eternally? 18 attempts 0 successes

[sleek iron]

probably just you

git gud kek

jokes aside, that sounds painful

[noble wedge]

unlucky

[sleek iron]

the shield type absolutely doesnt matter for the unique i want to get with the rune of ascendance right ?

[slim veldt]

Hi does anyone have a good loot filter for CoF that can be customized. I saw frozensentinels one but that's a little too strict considering I'm just level 60

[slim veldt]

Yes as long as it's a shield

[slim veldt]

But you should use one with cof rank

[sleek iron]

yes that's why i asked here

i wanna enjoy the perk but i want to get a specific shield

[sleek iron]

there's a faction condition you know ?

or did you mean something else ?

[slim veldt]

No I mean just use any shield with the cof rank on it .. so you can save runes of ascendence

[sleek iron]

yes this i know

[slim veldt]

guys when you play circle of fortune, i picked up kill void horror prophecies, do the ones that spawn from the golden echo's that reveal nearby echo's count?

cause i've done like 4 echos , adn each spawns maybe 6-10 void horrors, and i only need 6 for the phrphecy

[livid spruce]

No, those don't count

[wraith flare]

Go to Black Sun, look for Foresaken Trail, The Surface, Lotus Halls, Underground Palace, and Arenas

[sleek iron]

unless a location is specified, you can always kill monsters anywhere

but yes some nodes like arenas dont really add them to the count because it just makes it too easy

[slim veldt]

This worked

[solid seal]

Reveal Echo Beacon Void Horrors are not the same enemy as Void Horrors you need for the prophecy.
https://lastepoch.tunklab.com/npc/BeaconVoidHorror
https://lastepoch.tunklab.com/npc/VoidHorror

The ones you need can randomly spawn in echoes in The Black Sun Timeline, Fall of the Empire Timeline, The Last Ruin Timeline. Both optional quest echoes in The Last Ruin timeline have 1-3 patrolling Void Horrors in them. Run around the area, kill any Void Horrors patrolling, portal out, repeat. Never do the final objective if you intend to repeat the quest echo (kill Amalgamation, complete arena event). Void Gate Void Horrors do count for the prophecy.

[flint ferry]

Got some prophecies fulfilled when killing the soul vessels at the boss fight of the first mono. Or when killing guardians of ethera (or how are that temple guardiang called) when reducing some corruption. I think that were just neutral any "boss" prophecies.

[sleek iron]

you know you can check your prophecies in the faction window right ?

[solid seal]

Yep. "death of Boss" prophecies can be completed against a multitude of boss category monsters in the game. You can find the full list on FrozenSentinel's spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DLiKBOApPtBBm5prr185HU-iYM9k28ENFgz-voXpB-4/edit?gid=925587003#gid=925587003

[slim veldt]

What loot filter are you guys using . I know frozen has one but he said it's for when you're farming super late end game and I'm just trying to get my build finalised

[mellow nacelle]

At rank 12 are the rewards duplicated or they just double

[livid spruce]

Double quantity

[drowsy oracle]

999 999 favor / 2.5 hour

^_^

[limber minnow]

400k favor/hr? idk bout that one

[wicked wasp]

any idea why specifically bow prophecies are giving me less than they should?

just got 5 unique bows from an 8 proph at rank 12

[hazy thunder]

is there any chance your loot filter filtered them out?

[wicked wasp]

hold on i got a clip

nvm no video perms. no i turned my loot filter on and off several times

[hazy thunder]

Unfortunately there isn't really anything that I can do to remedy the situation, but could you please submit an in-game bug report?

[wicked wasp]

only thing i can think of is something to do with the fact that im playing a sentinel and the class-specific drop weight OR some weird difference between "ranged weapon" and "bow"

looks like someone else had a similar issue

[solid seal]

Some prophecies can fail in converting the generated item into an eligible reward item of the same item type. So the game will just drop the generated item. Your loot filter is hiding the generated rare/exalted items that failed to convert. You can check to see what rank requirement is put on the rewards by the prophecy.

• Unique Bow x2 - https://imgur.com/zDLYjkC - Applies Rank 5.
• Unique Bow x4 - https://imgur.com/rBbeEQh - Applies Rank 4.
• Unique Ranged Weapon (1 LP) - https://imgur.com/ZNS6wzM Applies Rank 10.
• Unique Idol x2 - https://imgur.com/TkZ6y21 - Applies Rank 4. This is supposed to be fixed in 1.1.5.
• Unique Armour (X Weavers Will) - https://imgur.com/a/jm66Fot - Applies Rank 2 (8 WW) and Rank 6 (16 WW). The reward pool is "Armour" which includes Helms, Body, Belt, Boots, Gloves, and Shield. There are no weaver Helm or Body Armours, so any rare/exalted helms won't convert to an eligible reward and drops to the ground.

[wicked wasp]

wait okay so these WOULD have been unique bows but arent because . the game doesnt make them unique ?

[solid seal]

from what i've been told, the game generates an item of the item type then attempts to convert it to a reward in the reward pool of the same item type.

[wicked wasp]

thats very interesting . i guess theres no real way to fix that but thanks for sharing

[solid seal]

that conversion fails. you get the generated item that failed to convert.

Next time you do a bow prophecy, simply check all the items that drop at your feet for the rank requirement. They'll all be the same.

[wicked wasp]

i see i see

[solid seal]

Full list of rank's applied to rewards by prophecies can be found in FrozenSentinel's spreadsheet. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DLiKBOApPtBBm5prr185HU-iYM9k28ENFgz-voXpB-4/edit?gid=2080914423#gid=2080914423&range=AJ:AJ

[drowsy oracle]

Yes, farm on Falkoner

420k favor/hr

This is if I don't stop and don't die, I will try and do it faster 🙂

[drowsy oracle]

It was just 420 in the first hour, then it got worse, we went away, got distracted

[red helm]

How, what, where

[drowsy oracle]

You can watch it on my stream tonight 🙂

[red helm]

Same nick?

[drowsy oracle]

The same as here 🙂

[sleek iron]

try #❔┃ask-the-community it allows media

[drowsy oracle]

for example now )

[misty pawn]

yes.

[fresh pivot]

Cof was great not gonna lie

[scarlet wing]

thats awesome, but how do you spend it?

[drowsy oracle]

You take the prophecies for what you need and go to the dungeons or to the same place where you farm

[twilit jetty]

Can you stack enemies enrage at half health and enemies are deadly modifiers? For more xp/favor

[frosty pelican]

@twilit jetty yes

[twilit jetty]

Would you just run both echos after each other then farm beacon? Or is there a specific way to do it

[frosty pelican]

First one needs to have 3 uses, second one needs to have 2+, otherwise the modifiers will expire before you run the beacon.

[twilit jetty]

Thanks Chief

[willow mason]

whats the best place to farm void horrors prophecies?

[sleek iron]

honestly just go into echoes, you stumble upon them every 3 or so usually

[frosty pelican]

Iirc there was one right at the start of defiled wood or something quest area in the last timeline. Can get one every 20s or so and reset

[twilit jetty]

Is there any new way to make gold while in CoF? It's a bit of a bummer when stash gold sink to earning ratio becomes unsustainable

[sleek iron]

you dont discard non-LP items ?

[twilit jetty]

Oh yeah, forgot about that

[sleek iron]

also stop collecting the sets after a couple items of each tbh

there are so few of them that the same ones keep coming up

[sleek iron]

oh damn, i hadnt realized the T11 perk applied to shop as well

so many exalted popping up in the shop now, pretty nice

[merry obsidian]

6

[sleek iron]

6?

[outer elm]

I have generally used prophecies from cof for unique items but is it worth using favor for hunting exalts with t6 and t7 at all?

[frosty pelican]

It's a relatively cost inefficient use of favor overall vs uniques but you can do it if you really want to target something specific and spam it

[outer elm]

I figured as much, thanks.

[frosty pelican]

You can also grab rare item prophecies and rely on the rare to exalt upgrade cof perk which is way more cost efficient than exalt prophecies themselves. Still probably not better than unique prophecies and relying on exalts to eventually drop long term

[outer elm]

That's true at least it would be more cost effective.

[flint ferry]

t11 perk can give you exalted item for the new char, via nemesis, for sealed affix) for example I've got one in lvl 14 location

https://i.gyazo.com/340c3904c5132bb39dd638e2d35b7e7e.png

[distant leaf]

How is this calculated? Is it incorporating their relative rarity from other sources?

[frosty pelican]

Yes exactly. In other content exalts are significantly more abundant than uniques, but for prophecies the favor cost per item of exalts is only slightly cheaper.

especially when you factor the CoF perks that increase the exalts you get naturally

[distant leaf]

Yeah, that makes sense. It really just all depends on what you need, though, which is the beauty of CoF. But you covered that

Efficiency isn't everything since we're not just injecting it into a market

[turbid copper]

does the 150% drop chance affect dungeon bosses now?

[livid spruce]

Yes

[turbid copper]

thank you!

[jolly sail]

I'm trying to farm the heart of Uhkeiros. I spam boss relic prophecies and every time I kill the boss I get 6 or 12 unique relics. But no heart. Can it drop from the prophecies? Because I've got 5 horns of uhkeiros from all these runs, which is supposed to be rarer and I don't run any prophecy for it... Am I doing something wrong?

[livid spruce]

Prophecies can't drop boss-specific items. The only things you can do are have the rank bonus that multiplies boss-specific drops by 2.5x and increase the drop chance by increasing corruption and item rarity for the boss fight. Double LP chance also helps to improve LP odds, if you have that rank bonus unlocked.

[jolly sail]

Ahh, I knew something was wrong 😄
Thank you for the info, I'll keep farming I guess

Too bad I spent like 250k favor for nothing though 😄

[livid spruce]

It's okay, some unique relics are nice to grab anyway. I like the weaver ones because they're fun. 😁

[jolly sail]

Yeah, I stopped picking them up because I have multiple entire stash tabs of them...

At least I got some 3 LP relics from that though

[livid spruce]

Fair, that is quite a lot 😂

[snow palm]

how many people are still cof? I am lol

[outer nacelle]

probably more than mg if you are still playing at this point of the cycle

[snow palm]

yeah im still her elol

[dreamy beacon]

how is LE this time around

[cinder pike]

If a prophecy says that an item will drop with 1 legendary potential, is there any chance that the item could drop with more?

[short garden]

I'd like to know as well. They are too expensive if the reward is only 1LP guaranteed.

Is it 1LP minimum or 1LP only?

[wraith hazel]

1LP minimum. But it seems common sense they are not worth at all

[sleek iron]

yeah defo dont go for these prophecies

too expensive and not rewarding enough, what you'd want ideally is LP2 minimum, or a bare one enhanced by nemesis later

[livid spruce]

Item rolls for LP like normal, then if it rolled 0 LP it gets changed to 1 LP.

[sleek iron]

? Well not really

It would only roll items that can have LP and give those 1LP by default

[livid spruce]

That's the same thing?

[sleek iron]

not really, there are items with w'eaver's will too, and those dont get included in the pool

[livid spruce]

Well of course, nobody was talking about WW

just about how the LP proph rolls LP

[frosty pelican]

Are we sure? I was under the assumption it gave 1LP then rolled for 2, 3, etc. as normal.

The way you mentioned would make it even worse than initially thought as it doesn't increase 2LP+ chance indirectly.

[livid spruce]

I trust Dammitt's reverse engineering, that's the closest we'll probably get to a dev answer: #👨┃ask-the-devs-not-support-no-bugs message

[frosty pelican]

Ah this is worse than expected.

When dammit says judging by the code does he mean literally the LE code?

[livid spruce]

Yeah (he's the one that made LE Tools and reverse engineered the data to automatically build the item/skill/ailment databases and whatnot)

[frosty pelican]

Ah that's cool. I figured he just had API hookups from EHG

[livid spruce]

tbf, he's got that, too 😅
but I think all that does is let the site pull online character data for the profile/planner

[thorn dome]

is it still 2 favour per 1 favour spent or is it increased by your ranks boost to favour gained?

[livid spruce]

It's 2 rep per favor earned and 2 rep per favor spent. Boosts to favor or xp gain directly improve your rep gain just because you gain/spend more favor.

[thorn dome]

but its value is not increased by say 50% so if you spent 1 do you get 2 still or do you get more due to rank

[livid spruce]

The rank modifier is for favor, not reputation. So you still get 2 reputation for every 1 favor spent and 2 rep for every 1 favor earned. Nothing changes that ratio.

[thorn dome]

ah i see thought they where the same

[wraith flare]

Are the prophecies that guarantee 1 LP worth it given the much higher favor cost and fewer uniques? Is there a time when switching to these types of prophecies makes sense?

[livid spruce]

No, never worth it in their current state, unfortunately

[wraith flare]

Yeah, I took some extra time to read comments and your link to the ask devs discussion. What a shame, but thank you for the quick reply.

[frosty pelican]

I have a spreadsheet going over the math of favor efficiency for those interested vs non LP prophecies. TLDR is that in a best case scenario there were about 30% efficient for high LP level items. It turns out that it's even worse than I anticipated as I was working with the assumption that it added LP first then continued rolling, not acted as a failsafe.

[wraith flare]

Yeah, I'm using your build/spreadsheet (super big help!). BTW, when do you know when to switch from the basic frostclaw to the static orb + Frost Claw build?

[frosty pelican]

You don't have to switch. I'm still using pure FC on my lvl 100 HC toon. But if you do want to, you'll want probably 1300+ mana and 100+ int to feel okay.

[wraith flare]

Thanks! at 1180 mana doing 400 corrup pretty easy. That gives me some good guidance on what to look for. Again, amazing work/videos.

[prisma vector]

is your static orb sorc on CoF too?

[frosty pelican]

I've never touched MG on any character lmao

[prisma vector]

I looked at someone's LP Wrongwarp/Head of the Mountain/etc. and I was just wondering how long it would take for me to farm all those myself 🥲🥲🥲 do you have tips for incremental gains on CoF?

[frosty pelican]

Use your favor on uniques as you get much fewer vs exalts from normal drops. If you have LP bases for one slot and still no exalt, start farming uniques for the next slot. Grab all relevant uniques prophecies you see while rolling even if you aren't focusing on it yet to reduce reroll cost.

Use runes of Creation on exalt you will slam, creations are cheaper than a whole new useful exalt by far

Understand the relative rarity of items you want. Eg. There is no sense farming for a 2LP prismatic gaze before you have all your 1LP with good slams at least in other slots.

[scarlet wing]

Does CoF increase the drop rate of boss items? I mean "exclusive" items that only that boss has

[outer nacelle]

with rank 10 yes

[elfin iris]

what is 1LP? pls

[lunar escarp]

Legendary potential

[thorn dome]

i need about 700k more rep any tips?

[sleek iron]

yeah play

you only need to farm about 250k and spend it all

[elfin iris]

TY

[thorn dome]

i have been playing

[sleek iron]

well ofc since you're at CoF 11

but you need to play more, it's the last stretch

[wraith hazel]

Does anyone know by chance, how much rep is rank 8 in total

[livid spruce]

Mike posted the faction for each rank in ask-the-devs chat at some point. Unfortunately not at my computer where I have it saved 😅

[wraith hazel]

Couldn't find it either

[livid spruce]

#👨┃ask-the-devs-not-support-no-bugs message

Found it, but can't do that many numbers on mobile lol, should be just adding the first 8 or 9

[wraith hazel]

Saved it in my notepad and made it readable 😄 Thank you very much kind Sir

[limpid karma]

fyi you can always check here in case those numbers change in future: https://lastepoch.tunklab.com/faction/circle_of_fortune

[wraith hazel]

Hehe, it could have been so easy, thanks for the hint!

[azure ice]

So are you the type of cof player that fights with the harbingers on or off when you have a lootsplosion

[outer nacelle]

depending on loot explosion size, as long as it's around 10ish items max that need to be picked up. harby on, kill first boss, pick up stuff and tp out so you can do it again and not waste stability/envys to do it again

[sleek iron]

pff, you do not need to use eyes to kill harbinger

your heart, you shall use

[thorn dome]

the rank 12 faction buff show on when you get the prophicy?

[sleek iron]

it doesnt "show" it's just implemented

[thorn dome]

so if it says 2 it will drop 4?

[sleek iron]

no it will drop 2

[thorn dome]

how can something say drops 2 whith both rank 12 and the lense that gives more

[sleek iron]

did you refresh the pool beforehand ?

[thorn dome]

i always do even if i change lenses around just incase

i use both more uses and more items then i use what ever item im looking for

[sleek iron]

well maybe it's a visual issue

[thorn dome]

will check how many it says it drops vs how many dops

[frosty pelican]

I think you guys have miscommunication. If an prophecy has 1x item and 1x usage without lenses or R12, with both Wealth and Rhyme lens it would be 2x item with 2x uses, or 4 items total. with rank 12 and both lenses it will be 4x item with 2x uses, or 8 items.

Even if you don't have R12 when you grab a prophecy you still get the perk as long as you have R12 when the prophecy procs

[mystic bay]

yea, the rank 12 doesnt change the displayed number, it just makes it drop twice that much when it happens, but the display will still show the original value (possibly doubled by lens)

[hazy elm]

increased unique drop rates once again change that will 99% affect mg and barely affect cof

[azure ice]

Any boost to unique drop rates will exponentially buff COF?

[hazy elm]

wdym?

all your juicy lp stuff comes from prophecies not random drops

[azure ice]

More uniques will mean more chances for COF to boost LP higher. I’m excited for the favor gain, like you said we get our good loot from prophecies anyways

[hazy elm]

its not favor gain 🙂

its rep gain....so ye...

people even asked already in devs chat and they said they want to keep favor untouched

well my point is that unique drop buff is exponentially stronger on mg cause there random drops are 99% of the market, meanwhile in cof its almost irrelivant, so once againt ehg releases new things with little consideration to cof

[azure ice]

Oh wow you’re right. Looks like a MG update to me

[hazy elm]

its 100% is

[sleek iron]

well 90%, there are still other changes and QoL improvements that they decided to release sooner rather than later

[flint ferry]

Why do 1-LP prophecies cost that much? Considering that we have Nemesis, that can easily add 1-2 LP to anything.

[outer nacelle]

outdated prophecy that wasn't updated with nemesis considerations. even before that it wasn't worth it, so it's always been trash.

this update is so anti cof, im not gonna play. it's all good though, will still get over 2 months out of the cycle which is pretty good

i would have played for 3 months though, so in an attempt to get people to play more, they will have lost me

[serene plinth]

are we going to need to re-farm guild level with the refresh? finally got it to the second to last rank

[outer nacelle]

yeah total wipe

[livid spruce]

Yes, unless you continue to play on your current characters in legacy, then nothing changes (aside from still getting bonus rep gain either way)

[slate valve]

I'm trying to build a starter/intermediate set of gear. I only have 2 lens slots open, only rank 8. If i'm trying to target farm specific kinds of items e.g., exalted amulet, should I double ammy lens or worth it to run ammy+exalt lense?

[ancient osprey]

why are people complaining that the mid cycle reset/event thing is gonna effect cof so much
isnt cof the least effected by this??
can someone fill me in

[ancient osprey]

i personally wouldnt specifiy item type when it comes to accesories cause those are just rings,relics and amulets, so you will get a choice of amulet most of the time anyways
i prefer to limit game mode for example block dungeons and arena if you only run monoliths and go from there

[outer nacelle]

its not so much that it affects cof, it's that cof doesn't get much at all out of it. for me it's that i lose access to the leaderboard if i choose to stay on legacy

[ancient osprey]

we get more loot and stuff right? loot goblin, shrine, event buff? isnt that better than getting nothing until 1.2?

are we complaining for the sake of it

[limber minnow]

Full cycle reset. Interesting

[outer nacelle]

because they didnt go into any of the details of all that goblin and shrine stuff, no one seems hyped for that. all of cof loot comes from favor anyway so it's kinda useless

[ancient osprey]

i dont get that sentiment at all tbh
more stuff is always more
and its always been the case that they make a general announcement in advance and give details one week prior

[outer nacelle]

that's for nuking builds. this is grander scale, they've never done this before. also, not voted for by the public

[ancient osprey]

they do thsi specifically to counter the mg exploits and lvl the playing field cause that destroyed the whole part of that game
and there i sno reason for them to care about any public opinion or vote at all, they do that cause they care and are being nice
they dont answer to us ^^

[outer nacelle]

to be fair, not that many people in this channel are complaining about it

[limber minnow]

I’m a fan of ladder reset. I quit awhile ago tho hehe.

So what’s the op favor farm stuff these days. Ballista stuff?

[outer nacelle]

i dunno actually

i think noobzor did pretty good with warlock

350+

[red helm]

CoF players/channel is most chill in Epoch. They play the game, rest is just complainers and drama 😄

[sleek iron]

i mean we are SSF players basically

for cycle players changes can affect them badly but legacy ones just play their game and dont concern themselves with other players kek

[ancient osprey]

i normaly just read the dev channel and someone made it sound like it was a huge deal
guess they are just entitled

[sleek iron]

in a way it is a big deal, but not too much

[livid spruce]

It does negatively impact people who weren't finished with the cycle. Hopefully they put the reset notice on the in-game banner, too, otherwise it may surprise some casuals. I think it's probably a very small portion of people negatively impacted, though.

[distant leaf]

I'm not done with the cycle, but I don't mind finishing in legacy

[sleek iron]

the thing that's funny in a way is that cycle players should have the mindset that their efforts will be turned to dust pretty much as a cycle ends and their progress is saved in legacy. But for some reason a lot of players seem to have forgotten this and have a mind that they cant let go

[distant leaf]

Well, it's not that, it's just that it's a shorter timetable than originally stated. But I don't care

[sleek iron]

yes i know

but even if it was shorter than expected it shouldnt be so bad either

think about it, yes they may not be done with the cycle or progress, but what's the difference between their progress being reset now, or them finishing their duties, leaving their characters to rot for 2 months until a new cycle starts ?

it's all about learning to let go, if they are people who would still play the game and grind again then it shouldnt matter much to them

[livid spruce]

My legacy stash is a dumpster fire at this point, which would be a significant hurdle if I wanted to continue my cycle chars. Obviously not everyone has this problem, though, lol

[slate valve]

Oh wait, does it not increase the chance per node to be that type? Just increases the chance for at least one node of that type to appear?

[ancient osprey]

no, it works the way you think it works, thats not what im saying
i mean specifically for the accesory prophecies you have limited outcomes anyways, you will get amulets very frequqnetly even without lense, so best use smth else

[slate valve]

Oh okay. Yeah that makes sense.

[hazy elm]

its the most affected lmfao, people who play cof tend to play for long time or start later and play at slow pace unlike mg players, where market is alive for 4 weeks and they are on deadline, and now both of those players will have progress wiped out

[ancient osprey]

there is no progress wipe
what are you on about

[hazy elm]

your chars are going to legacy, so there is

[ancient osprey]

are you loosing any of your stuff? what progress is being deleted

[hazy elm]

i know at least 4 people who were playing a lot this cycle to push leaderboards, and they will be wiped so have to do it now with unfinished characters, as for others idk

[ancient osprey]

the event brings more people back than there are people who care about ladder
it's a net positive

[hazy elm]

i dont think itll bring people back, the amount of things added is nothing, maybe we will ger 20k players on launch we will see, at least all my friends have 0 interest, idk abt other people but dont see why those would be interested either

[hazy elm]

also majority of people play cycle, a lot of people clearly care about items they accumulated on cof and dont want to wipe, as for reasons im not sure ig people just dont want to play on legacy or care abt lb

[ancient osprey]

there is no wipe of any progress/items
that's just a thing happening in people's head and i wouldnt want decisions made based on that
we get some new stuff and adjustments which can be balanced/bug fixed before 1.2 which will make the game more flavourful in longterm, also thats a first to my knowledge they tried some sort of event thing so thats gonna be a huge experience gain for the devs
we dont have to complain about everything just for the sake of it
the single digit amount of people who care about ladder can surely suck it up and turn down their egos a bit

[azure ice]

Ladders will be easier to push now. Less players competing and anyone who knows how to type in a url can easily find all the best builds

[frosty pelican]

Figure y'all might be interested in giving your upvotes or adding thoughts to this thread, I know this is a common ask from CoF players; https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/please-update-lootfilter-rules-to-allow-selecting-specific-uniques/73577

[outer nacelle]

it's not about egos though. it's literally the only end game thing left to do. aberroth was cleared on day 2? and people can kill him now in 3 seconds. corruption pushing above 1k is 'useless'. you say that this will be a net gain? sure, the players that they will bring back are the ones that quit 2 weeks in. they will quit again. the ones that they will lose are the true supporters of the game like @proud shoal

[scarlet wing]

what is "broken key"? https://imgur.com/EWAY4Yv

[livid spruce]

It's an unused item, if you find a prophecy for it, it's a bug

[weary hound]

[silent skiff]

what's the fuss about ladders anyway? the HC-C ladder timestamps say that from the morning of 1.1 being released, until the first player to hit level cap took all of maybe 6 hours? (my math could be slightly off, so give or take some)

if thats all it amounts to, i tend to agree with Serfax that they seem largely unimportant to anyone but a small fraction of players that enjoy consuming content like the hotdog eating contest guy

would be cooler if the ladders had like more statistical filters to showcase unique builds and playstyles, too

#opinionslol