feedback-discussion

[thin remnant]

yeah

[tardy prairie]

so now anyone can bring a handcannon if they have quatermaster and camp a compound I swear this community has no frontal lobe

[thin remnant]

just not as dramatically

[median zephyr]

yes but were saying significantly, the one tap ranges are basically exactly the same

the main buff was an accurate crosshair, which is just info basically

[rotund obsidian]

no the main buff was significantly better damage retention over distance

[median zephyr]

this is not something i tested yet, but that is what they said in the patch notes

[unborn sandal]

Yeah the pellets go out to 100 meters and don’t have as severe damage drop off but it’s not affecting gameplay that much. I guess sparks pistol plus shotgun is more viable? Past 25 meters you’re still only hitting a pellet or two and maybe doing 25 damage at most

[median zephyr]

all of them do say slight, so this would basically need to be tested a ton

anything like this in patch notes, you always gotta take with a grain of salt

[median zephyr]

like for the longest time even crytek support said "our shotgun crosshairs are accurate" or how they said dusters have the same hitbox as the knife

[median zephyr]

if youre consistantly doing 25+dmg at 35m with a spectre, that is at least smth

[median zephyr]

is that the spectre?

[rotund obsidian]

yeah, full sized

[median zephyr]

how many shots do you typically do?

[tardy prairie]

the fact you even can is insane 6 star lobbies rn are the most boring statlemates ever, thanks to burn changes the game now punishes taking initavitive and benefits camping with shotguns and insta burning anyone you kill, I swear the crytek is trying to make the game as unplayable as possible

[unborn sandal]

Ok you can tickle someone more aggressively at range. As long as you’re not using a single shot you’re still better off continuing to fire with your long range. I don’t understand why people are acting like the world is burning down now that shotgun pellets don’t despawn at 20 meters

[rotund obsidian]

im just fuckin with it right now this aint scientific

[tardy prairie]

that isn't even getting into trap changes that once again work to benefit shotgun camping and preventing pushes under the pretence of "just use explosives"

[median zephyr]

ah fair, old spectre 2 tap range was ~16.5m give or take a bit, so if youre getting 75+ consistantly more then that, theres your previous number

[rotund obsidian]

all im doin is confirming that yeah shotguns were buffed lol

[median zephyr]

well in order to know if they were buffed you need a previous

cant say i tested the spectre doing dmg at 35m previously

bc frankly, its out of range

[unborn sandal]

If you don’t like being in 6 star sweaty lobbies I have a suggestion: just push. Yeah you’ll probably die more but it’s not boring and you’ll eventually drop into lobbies that you can get away with brainless pushes

[median zephyr]

preciously i tested 2 tap ranges, and one taps, so theyre the only thing i have previous data on

[rotund obsidian]

hell even the pennyshot derringer got buffed, although not in pvp afaik

that's just a pennyshot buff all around i think, though. it now doesnt detonate immolators

[median zephyr]

huh, that wasnt in the patch notes

wonder what they did with that

[rotund obsidian]

delaney confirmed it was as designed

[median zephyr]

they mustve just forgot to add it, bc nobody cares about poor penny

[unborn sandal]

Penny= no pen

No pen makes me angry

except on dragons breath. Dragon’s breath is punishing enough to deal with no pen

[median zephyr]

penny is literally supposed to be "this sucks use it for pve" its kinda like the poison ammo of shotguns

which makes it kinda just ignored, only used for memes, or as your 2nd slot on romero to kill a boss

at least theres no "copper shot" that prevents you from taking as much pennyshot dmg :)

[rotund obsidian]

i mean its now an upside at least since it doesnt pen immolator skin, it just kills them lol

[median zephyr]

that is still for pve yes, and youre not doing it quietly, but it is slightly better

[rotund obsidian]

now i can use it for immos when i wanna run a bayonet or talon or some shit

[median zephyr]

gigachad pennyshot full romero talon who shoots all immolators

noise be damned let them come

[rotund obsidian]

oh great, i can't fire the derringers (or flare pistol) in 3d view. another bug to add to the pile? can anyone else?

was gonna say those things are way quieter than you'd think but ofc i cant actually go and check so all i can offer is my anecdotal experience of a teammate shooting immolators and me thinking "damn wtf i could barely hear that shit and im only like 40 meters away"

[median zephyr]

wait which thing? romero pennyshot or you talking derringers

[rotund obsidian]

derringer pennyshot

[median zephyr]

and ill test the dingers now

and derringers are relatively quiet, they are... horseish distance

which is louder then like, yknow throwing knife, but not normal guns

[rotund obsidian]

if only throwing knife didnt suck

[median zephyr]

yea i cant shoot them in 3d either, prob an oversight bc "tools dont shoot"

and i mean its def overshadowed by things like spear, but i actually prefer them over throwing axe, theyre not THAT bad, just not meta

[rotund obsidian]

i mean i take them but theyre still just bad. the random spread and the weak melee without a trait kinda kill them for me

if they didn't have crazy bloom i'd probably like them a lot more but the fact that i gotta stand still and crouch to actually hit AI in the head from more than an arms length away is crazy

[tiny pivot]

you are coping if you use knives over axes let alone spear tbh

spear vs axe is a bit more of an arguement because spear only having one use if you miss

[storm pendant]

#game-ideas message

@basilino1.2 Good start but I bet it’ll take more than that. That’s still really strong

[upbeat axle]

still having crashes.... never had this many freezes before in a game im playing.

[median zephyr]

Yes the random spread is stupid, but axes have the exact same thing, and the melee doesn't matter bc you can just throw the knife when out of stamina (against ai) I've ALWAYS been a proponent of throwing knives being 100% accurate, if you can snipe a kennel or a person from 70m away, that is an incredible skill shot and you could've done it easier with any gun

[median zephyr]

Knives do better against most things, it just sucks against armords, and hives, it's nice to be able to throw them into kennels, and at ai and not feel a huge need to go retrieve them so I can be lazy

[unborn smelt]

It's not quite as simple as that, it's quite playstyle dependant.

The throwing knives give you 6x 130 damage (780 total), while axes only give 2x 162 damage (324 total) knives also get 6x the "rip out damage" while axes only get it twice.

As a result throwing knives are more effective against single enemies that have enough health that a single axe wont kill it, like meatheads, but can also spread their damage among multiple enemies more easily and be more expendable.

Axes on the other hand are better suited to silently taking out medium health AI due to the OHK potential over the knives, and also are fun for memeing (due to random horizontal spread and lack of killing on arm hits, just memeing, IMO) in PvP.

[undone crypt]

hard to beat grabbing a stam shot, a spear, and becoming the stab express against all AI including bosses.

[unborn smelt]

So if i want to kit aout a new Hunter by killing some meatheads silently for perks, or want a more expenable throwable to for example silence kennels i bring knives

If i just want the option to silently rotate i'd take axes

[storm pendant]

Throwing axes can't kill meatheads in under 10s, throwing knives can :D

[unborn smelt]

But tbh - the spear is a nobrainer right now

[storm pendant]

Spear is just flat too good

[unborn smelt]

Has high enough damage to compete with the throwing knives in DPS, not a meme in PvP due to the OHK. It's just not really expendable

[undone crypt]

It's also much more expensive then the other options at $150, last to unlock after prestige and you only get one. So there is some balance.

Does frontiersman effect spears? does it give you a second one?

[storm pendant]

In defense of throwing knive, I've found some very non-memey uses for it in terms of retreating around a corner and arcing into windows from safety

[unborn smelt]

I'm not trying to claim there's no balance, and i very much like the core concept of the spear

i just think it doesn't belong into a single tool slot

[storm pendant]

Ehh, money only effects the bottom 20% of players, prestige levels only matter to people who are prestiging. The fact that they invalidate most weapon slot melees and all tool slot melees as a tool slot, as well as competing with weapons like the bow, is just too good for any of those factors to matter

[unborn smelt]

then again i also think that making almost all melee weapons a small weapon slot was not a good idea for the balance of melle weapons compared to other melee weapons

[storm pendant]

Should be a two slot melee tbh, but they removed 2 slot melee

[storm pendant]

Same. And they never bothered to explain why either

[unborn smelt]

My best guess, is that basically noone (on PC, can only speak for PC myself) bothered to bring medium slot melee

was just to big of a downside for the loadout overall

seeing as not only did small slot melee also kill in one hit, even a tool did

[storm pendant]

That was my guess too but it feels so strange to make the katana the only good melee instead of bringing the axe and hammer up to its level in some way

[unborn smelt]

I think what other melee weapons need is for martialist to work with them

[storm pendant]

I saw plenty of medium slot katana builds or quartermaster katana builds. The extra reach and quick boss kills were worth it

[unborn smelt]

give em some versatility that way

[storm pendant]

Nah man, katana would still reign supreme, the katana's base stats are just too good to be in the same "tier" as the other melees.

Even taking martialist out of the picture

[unborn smelt]

It does compete with the Combat axe and Railroad hamme tho - those have pretty good base stats too

they just have a very slow mooveset with kinda bad striking angles

[storm pendant]

The problem is their range, and specifically the hammer's obtuse swing angle that makes it insanely hard to actually hit people

[unborn smelt]

If martialist could add a better usable attack, that would help immensely

or, an attack that deals a diffrent damage type for versatility

[storm pendant]

I feel like the axe and hammer are fine to stay one slot but the katana should be a 2 slot. I saw lots of medium slot builds w/ katana and quartermaster katana builds before the change, and after the change I just stopped seeing other melees entirely until the spear was added

People would absolutely still bring the katana if it were 2 slot, at least they would if it weren't for the spear being broken

[unborn smelt]

I think an issue then, is that the axe and hammer have insane stats over the machete or bat

[storm pendant]

The bat specifically would do fine because of easier swing angle and better range, the machete just has no niche tbh. The saber already outclasses the machete

I don't think people would bring the hammer over the bat unless they were meming regardless of slots

[unborn smelt]

TBH i think overall basically no matter what they do, people would rarely bring a dedicated melee weapon.

[storm pendant]

Personally I think this is fine, they aren't useless and they absolutely have their moments but ultimately in a game about shooty shooty, they're niche and that's OK

[unborn smelt]

with bayonets having basically no downside anymore, and shotguns recent buffs, weapon slot melee is in a very hard place

that's why i think melee weapons need some versatility going for them

[storm pendant]

Very true. Talon is now just objectively better than bringing a combat axe in every way, including how easy it is to actually land a hit

[unborn smelt]

yeah

but if weapon slot melee had little to no stamina cost, it'd be a nice thing to have. Afterall you're sacrificing one gun slot that could double as melee

or the axe getting an attack with martialist that does blunt damage

[storm pendant]

It feels like a lot of balance changes are being made off of only pick rate statistics. So much stuff that has made me just go "huh???" recently

[unborn smelt]

hard to say tbh - i think then they should have adjusted the Krag for example

in my matches that thing runs rampant since it has 125+ dmg

[storm pendant]

I'm genuinely shocked it's been this long and crytek has not even acknowledged the krag and spear yet

[unborn smelt]

I mean the spear they've "nerfed"

[storm pendant]

It took less than a full month to add an aperture sight to the nitro, now it's been over 2 months and they don't even mention it

[unborn smelt]

thing costs 150$ now

[storm pendant]

Someone at crytek really saw the feedback and went "oh I know what the problem is, it's too cheap!"

[unborn smelt]

Afaik Nitro always had apertures in any publicly playable build

they just changed how the apretures work

[storm pendant]

Nahh when it was first added it had caldwell rival sights

[unborn smelt]

before the outside of apertures were no blurred

[storm pendant]

You can find old pics online of the old sights

[unborn smelt]

i'm 99% sure that's wrong, those pics were cropped IIRC

[storm pendant]

Looking for a pic but I did find a malding steam forum post about the sights being changed

[unborn smelt]

Afaik they reworked the apreture very early on, but it was an aperture before too

[storm pendant]

Could be, the poster was not super specific

[unborn smelt]

but the ring part was smaller, and the outside was not blurred back then, so people would just look at the non blurred part and flick to the middle before the shot

[storm pendant]

Wasn't there a few weeks where the avtomat fired semi-auto, then they made it burst fire to balance it?

Back when mosins 1-shot hunters that weren't t3

I vaguely remember seeing a general sam vid on it

[unborn smelt]

I think it was "full auto" but you could cancel the burst effectively allowing precise single shots pretty fast

then they patchet it eventually to always consume 2 or 3 ammo even if you cancel it

[storm pendant]

I know more recently you could burst cancel via darksight but that was an exploit and it still ate your ammo, was only really useful for getting behind cover

[unborn smelt]

and even later they reworked it agian to the avto we have today

[storm pendant]

Speaking of bugs and exploits I’m so glad the lemat mostly works now. You ever get the blankfire bug on it?

[unborn smelt]

i havent

[storm pendant]

Sometimes when you’d switch ammo types it could go into a state where:

You can’t switch ammo

You can fire, but no projectile comes out and the shot is immediately added back to your cylinder

Other people still hear you shooting.

So effectively, you were holding a movie prop

[unborn smelt]

yeah i've heard of it i think, but never experienced it myself

[thin remnant]

removing the downside of melee variants was a horrible idea imo

[storm pendant]

Only happened to me once. I was SO confused as to why my shots weren’t hitting the guy who was standing still

[thin remnant]

even if they get a downside but its just small

like 5% worse hipfire spread

[storm pendant]

Agree mostly. I liked the talon post serpent moon. It was powerful but a little sluggish. Now it’s just better than an axe

[unborn smelt]

well technically they have one, they cost 10$ more and can't have another attachment, like a scope

[storm pendant]

The OLD talon was kinda trash tbh

[thin remnant]

not really a downside compared to base.

the only downside really, is immolators.
and technically people seeing your bayonet and giving away your position? technically?

[unborn smelt]

but no melee weapon can outweigh that tiny "disadvantage"

[storm pendant]

Bayonets in my mind were always a finisher or last resort and I liked them that way. I don’t think they should 1hit to chest

[unborn smelt]

I personally would agree, but then nobody would use em i think

[thin remnant]

well money makes no difference in the actual game, i think even then straight upgrade game design is bad, and not having other attatchments is not really a downside compared to base

the only actual kinda downside i can think of is immolators.

[storm pendant]

Idk springfield bayonet was my fav early on

[rocky turret]

some weapon slot melees are still ok imo
katana, baseball bat
but a lot of them feel like they have no place

[unborn smelt]

It really depends on what people deem "okay"

The melee weapons do what melee weapons should

[rocky turret]

Katana with martialist is legit

[storm pendant]

Saber is still my favorite but I do admit when I see a katana on a hunter I swap up every single time

[unborn smelt]

they usually OHK players if you get to em and they shred most AI

the "issue" they have, is those jobs can easily be done by loadouts that skip melee weapons entirely

a Bayonet, Talon, or the blunt melee thingy i forgot the name of, all do the OHK part, and the latter two also shred AI quite well

[rocky turret]

I'd say a bigger problem is the stamina economy atm
in theory melee weapon attachments should have higher stamina costs but that doesn't matter when everyone is running stam shots all the time
also contributes to spear being (more) busted

[unborn smelt]

to add insult to injury, if you bring a melee weapon you not only loose a slot a gun with a melee attachment could occupy, but also the option to stack ammo

[storm pendant]

Yep. This is the same issue with greyhound/determination combo costing 9 points and taking up 2 trait slots

[unborn smelt]

And then melee weapons use so much stamina, which is vital to their already limited effectiveness, that you really want at least one stam shot too

[median zephyr]

couldnt have said it better myself

[storm pendant]

When you ask players “would you rather ignore the stamina system entirely, or have to take 2-3 traits and manage your stamina carefully and risk dying because of it” most people will choose the first option. It’s rare to see anyone on your team not bring at least one for the early game, or banking on finding more in the match.

[unborn smelt]

I dunno - i think actual cost vs effectiveness, they are pretty bad if you play an actually gun focused loadout.

i can't really think of a situation where a lack of stamina killed me

[storm pendant]

Sure but most people aren’t worried about cost, especially not during events

[unborn smelt]

But, they are incredibly nice QoL

And for melee weapons they are basically a must have

[storm pendant]

When I’m feeling hyper sweaty I take 2 big stams, conduit, and a toolbox w/ packmule

Sometimes I can get a full 40 minutes of stam

[unborn smelt]

For me personally, when i play "sweaty" which i very rarely do, i would skip all QoL for ftraight up high powerlevel options. So i'd personally skip stam shots for frags

afterall, frags won me plenty of games, stam shots very few

well very few is a bad way to put it i guess

[storm pendant]

Not having to worry about stam so I can pay more attention to shooting people is super valuable. I find what I can get from toolboxes works for me

[unborn smelt]

but i found frags to be a more reliable game winner than stamshots

[storm pendant]

Stam is one of those things, if it wins you a game it’s usually not super noticeable.

[unborn smelt]

It's also very playstyle dependant i think

if i play sweaty i don't mind shooting some AI to preserve stamina, assuming the enemy already knows my position

[storm pendant]

I have mixed results with frags. I’ve had them go through walls and kill me or only do like 20 damage to someone within their range

I feel more comfortable with regular explosives

[unborn smelt]

then i'd still take a bundle over the stam if i'm feeling like playing sweaty

but that's likely just playstyle diffrence

[storm pendant]

Yeah but I take the stam and a toolbox to replenish. You get a lot of hellfires and dynamites now

Sometimes you get a double chaos but those are still usable

[unborn smelt]

the nwely buffed hellfire is so annoying now too

[storm pendant]

Yeah even if you die you still burnt at least 1 25 bar off of them

[unborn smelt]

I personally like frags more than dynamites, because the frag has the lethal radius of almost a big bundle, with the throw range of a stick

but, it does have worse "wrap around" damage than regular explosives so it basically needs a clear los

[storm pendant]

Frags are definitely the meta, I just do better with regular boom generally. Couldn’t tell you why

[hybrid forum]

@celest spindle #game-ideas message

That trait would be pretty much useless. Nothing is worth losing a bar, with no way to fet it back, as half of the guns in the game, and the most popular ones, would 1 tap you in the chest. You also spend 8 points, 1 point less than for doctor (something you ALWAYS should have) for a very small, and a situational bonus that only comes during the latter part of the match, and even then, it doesn't provide that much advantage, since if you want to snipe you're gonna be outside the default range anyways, and if you want to push they're gonna see you with dark sight.

Overall, I don't see a reason for it existing

[celest spindle]

this one is a suggestion made specially for solo players, high risk high reward players with snipers and such

[hybrid forum]

Is the high reward in the room with us right now?

[celest spindle]

and its an inspiration from another game: Midnight Ghost Hunt, which works exactly the same

[hybrid forum]

Also being a solo doesn't mean you will get screwed by a mosin

[celest spindle]

if they can spot you, that is

a sniper rifle hidden in an undergrowth, how are they gonna exactly see you unless they see the muzzle flash?

[hybrid forum]

Hear where the sound is coming from, turn in that direction, and they will see the muzzle flash on the second shot

You forgot about hunt's audio

It's not tarkov where you can't hear a damn thing

[celest spindle]

no i didnt, just in the mood to play way more stealthily xD

[celest spindle]

fr

[hybrid forum]

Ngl even if it GAVE 8 points, nobody would pick it anyways

1 less health bar is too big of a disadvantage

In early access low level hunters started with 125hp

You can see why they removed it

[celest spindle]

but halfing the darksight range, thats some insane advantage for some sweaty 6* i know

[hybrid forum]

Boy, in sixes everyone runs long ammo, which means game over for someone without a bar. Also at this point you barely need dark sight as you can see people moving around the map anyways. Spotting people ain't that hard

The only way I could see someone intentionally decreasing their max health, when it means that you're gonna get 1tapped by anything, is when you would be able to have temporary invincibility as a trade-off

But even that is poor game design

Sine if you hit someone you should be rewarded

[rancid pebble]

They really aren’t. With stuff like the sabre or the bat especially, if you can’t finish the fight in one bar of stamina you’re dead anyway.

[north coral]

How am I crashing so much opening the map, but then loading back into the older maps. Two games in a row this has happened and two lvl 50 hunters gone. But the old map??

[rotund obsidian]

i mean yeah i think axes have the same spread but those are also more effective on body/armshots in general and were perfectly fine pre-spear. im not talkin bout 70m skillshots, you can straight up miss a grunt(or hive) head from like 10-15m on either side if you throw while walking. my ideal throwing knife buff is the ability to throw while sprinting and greatly reduced inaccuracy as more of a precision weapon compared to axe/spear (spear has 5 spread while knives have 15 lol). also its weird that it goes from slash/slash to stab/stab with assailant, i'd probably prefer a slash/stab with assailant

realistically i just want to be able to headshot hives but instead i risk my knife flying off into a bush 50 meters away since random bloom made me miss her head at 10 meters away

[narrow wharf]

Dont worry we are beta testing the hotfix to fix this issue extensively you can expect the patch in 3-6 months

For now just hang tight and buy some skins for papa crytek ok?

[unborn smelt]

Yeah for just that PvP scenario the stamina consumtion is no real concern, but for mooving around the Map dealing with AI it is, eapecially with those that take a bit more stamina to use

[remote laurel]

nice bug fix shadows still back game unplayable :D

[worn owl]

I would like to report a bug. But every time I get the message that my text has been deleted because it does not correspond to the correct formatting.....what is this nonsense?

[hot vigil]

Read the pinned note in #bug-reports-pc :)

[worn owl]

Where can i find this......

Wtf

[unborn sandal]

You spelled title wrong

[worn owl]

🙈 i See 🙈🙈
I Hope, the fix all the Bugs as quick as possible. That's Not funny at all

[waxen merlin]

@gilded jungle
I like your idea of bear traps to slow an enemy, but they would need to be nerfed damage wise.
What do you mean that they are treated as arrows and bolts?

[gilded jungle]

Hm... isn't it the case, that bolts and arrows are sticking to the body and be removed via stopping the bleed? Maybe, I was wrong.

At least, that is what I meant.

[barren sun]

headshotted in the chest? damn thats crazy lol

[unborn sandal]

One pellet probably hit the head and most hit the chest

[barren sun]

i dont think it was the shotgun part

didnt sound like it

[winged radish]

Is this how it should be?

[storm pendant]

Yes?

[winged radish]

Look down

[storm pendant]

What’s the problem?

[storm pendant]

It’s just a leather cloak?

[winged radish]

He has a cape underneath with broken physics and I'm not the only one with this bug

[storm pendant]

I think I see it but the img is kind of dark

[winged radish]

I don't know if it will be more visible this way

[storm pendant]

Oh yeah that’s definitely messed up

[verbal marsh]

#feedback message
@tranquil lichen are you extracting with a bounty?

Kills alone don’t give many hunt dollars especially if you don’t loot- it’s important to remember that the main goal of the match is to get the bounty, not to get kills

Granted this is way harder with the current necro nerfs, instaburn and burn speed so it’s easier said than done

[unborn dagger]

@foggy vault Necromancer for solos should only ever be one, not multiple. If you are still getting downed even with a full health restoration there is no point in you trying to revive again. You messed up as a solo and should be punished for it. You want multiple revives you join a duo or a trio.

[hardy coral]

Kills are important for levelling hunters since they give the most XP.

If you want money buy vulture, you can get it on any hunter if you trade the perks out.

[verbal marsh]

That’s true, you get more xp from kills, but that only affects the hunt dollar reward if you hit level 50 and bloodline rank up

[hardy coral]

Also trading up gear (even if you don't use it) technically improves your bank.

[verbal marsh]

This assumes that trades don’t exist, and not being able to kill a solo that’s already been downed is a mistake and a skill issue on your part, not the solos

[tranquil lichen]

Rewards are less than pre engine update.

I could easily maintain the same level of extracting, kills, and banishes while buying meta loadouts and gain hunt dollars over time.

Now? I straight up lose all my money unless I have vulture and loot every hunter, and grab the big cash registers every single game. That's an absurd amount of running around just to gain cash or break even.................................

[verbal marsh]

Yeah, but are you extracting with a bounty token?

[tranquil lichen]

Yes and no. Regardless, 4-6 kills as a solo without extracting with bounty should give you enough hunt dollars to offset your investment of a mid-tier loadout. But it doesn't.

That's 2-3 team wipes. As a solo player.

[verbal marsh]

With bounty I agree, but without, nah

[unborn dagger]

What are you talking about here?

[verbal marsh]

It’s easy to sit super far away with a sniper and pick off teams as they fight other people without contributing to the actual objective of the game

So encouragement to get the actual bounty is a good thing

[unborn terrace]

Hey, i started getting a easy anticheat error when i join to a match...

[tranquil lichen]

4-6 kills as a solo and no bounty shouldn't offset an investment of lets say a centenial and officer w/ some shots, throwing axes, med kit, and flares? You're insane.

[verbal marsh]

Exactly what I said. There are plenty of ways to prevent a solo from getting up even without burning bodies, and if you can’t identify someone as a solo, and also let them res, and also manage to get team wiped by them, you didn’t deserve the down in the first place

[verbal marsh]

Try running the easy anti cheat EOS setup in the hunt files -> easyanticheat folder

[unborn dagger]

And a solo shouldn't be allowed to be forgiven multiple times and genuinely they shouldn't be having necro at all. They went in solo and giving themselves a harder time.

[tranquil lichen]

Do you play solo? Just from your statement makes me assume you don't ever play solo.

Necro is in a good spot.

[verbal marsh]

Yeah, they went in with odds stacked against them by being outnumbered, not by having their tools they bring in worse than their opponents

[unborn dagger]

It is in a good spot, only one revive and a ful res is a great balance change compared to before where they constantly revive themselves 5 times

[verbal marsh]

Hunters in teams are able to be forgiven multiple teams, why should solo be treated any different?

They’re already in a worse off position by being far outnumbered

And also by not being able to cover their own body when they go down like you can in teams

[unborn dagger]

Because you went in knowing you don't have support. Once again, you want an easier time? Go in with a team.

[tranquil lichen]

With all that being said, my point stands. HB rewards for solos needs to be buffed again. Idk why they nerfed it this update...

[verbal marsh]

Once again, they already have that disadvantage, stacking another disadvantage on top is only needed if you have a skill issue

[tranquil lichen]

No thanks. Solo is my preferred play style. Don't need to worry about randoms being stupid, and having to use proximity chat for comms (which gives you away).

And most of my friends don't play hunt. So... Solo it is!

[verbal marsh]

You already outnumber the solo, you already had them down, if they res and manage to kill your team, it is just a skill issue

[unborn dagger]

Oh yeah randoms are stupid, but it is an easier time compared to solo.

[verbal marsh]

I used to play a load of solo but only play in teams with my friends now, because solo is in such a sorry state because it’s been nerfed to cater towards trios who sit in a bush and want easy kills that they don’t have to beat in a fair fight

[tranquil lichen]

Solo is in a good spot right now. Only adjustments would be to reduce burn time by a bit, and this goes for not only solo's but also duos/trios. And also buff HB rewards for kills for solo players.

[unborn dagger]

Agreed

They need to make burn more gradual in its current state and remove burning from flareguns

[verbal marsh]

Yeah

Necro being one charge means that if you win a fight early on as a solo but end it with a trade you no longer have necro for the rest of the match which encourages people to leave early

I would be more ok with this change if you could restore it by banishing a boss or something

It’s easy to die to a rat in a bush or some guy with an Avto in a corner, it’s easy to die in unfair ways, this necro change just makes those way more punishing

[unborn dagger]

If you're relying on necro that hard that you need to leave? You really werent that good in the first place.

[verbal marsh]

Lol, so let’s make it so team players can’t revive teammates more than once then

If you’re relying on team revives that hard you weren’t that good in the first place

[tranquil lichen]

Duo's and Trio's can revive eachother up to 4 times EACH without red skull... Solo's? 1 revive max. Lol

[verbal marsh]

Plus more if they have relentless or rampage or remedy or the cache bar restore

Why are you holding different standards for teams and solos?

[tranquil lichen]

Yep, and of which some of those are worthless to solo players.

[verbal marsh]

The odds are already against you as a solo in multiple ways

Making it so they don’t get the same second chances that teams do is just awful for no reason

And only justified if you can’t beat a single person as a team in a fair fight

At which point you just gotta pick up a different game

[unborn dagger]

Three and they also only have one time to revive their buddy.

[verbal marsh]

If you want the game to be more ratty just go play tarkov

[verbal marsh]

It’s four with four 25s and a 50

And no they can revive as many times as they like by hand

It’s just necro that’s limited to one use

[unborn dagger]

Oh you're talking red skulling lol I mean at that point that's a skill issue of itself considering that they are burning themselves to revive another who was either burnt or downed multiple times

[verbal marsh]

No I’m not talking about red skull

There are five bars with 50 and four 25s. The first time you die you have four bars left

The second you have three. The third you have two. The fourth you have one, and when you die with one bar left, you can’t be resd.

That means you can be resd four times

[wild verge]

I got a ping in here

I cant find it

[verbal marsh]

Must’ve been a while ago or an accidental one that someone deleted lol

[unborn dagger]

Oh you're talking about that, I mean still, that's just a skill issue like you said. You downed someone and let someone else get the revive off.

[verbal marsh]

Yeah, exactly. So why is it suddenly the solos fault if that happens on a solo instead of a team player?

[unborn dagger]

@dire violet it is in the game, but you need to have the bounty equipped

[hot vigil]

Well nowadays you run big small big small, so one less rez :V

[verbal marsh]

Depends on the player but lol

I don’t just cus there’s a lot of ways to get bars back with peacekeeper and the cache, plus the burn traits

[hot vigil]

In trios it is about mandatory now, otherwise getting downed means you losing two bars due to insta burn

you need the big bar as a buffer now

[verbal marsh]

In six star I totally agree, but usually me and my friends focus on fun more than wins so we don’t stay there long

[hot vigil]

Ain't a choice in my play group, we never derank and stay 5-6 star

Like as in "never get deranked no matter how much we die"

[verbal marsh]

Yeah, the lowest we get is four star (in part because one of my teammates doesn’t really play fps games and they just like to spend time with us)

[hot vigil]

@dire violet every bounty carrier gets instinct as long they carry the bounty.
And the trait was really bad for the game as an obtainable trait.

[unborn dagger]

You went in solo, you shouldn't be getting multiple free jail cards because you're a solo.

[verbal marsh]

It’s no more a “free jail card” than resing multiple times in teams is

Calling it that doesn’t make it true

And solo is far easier to both camp and straight up fight than any team

Making trapping them, burning them out, or winning a fight against them easier- IF you actually have the skill to back it up

[unborn dagger]

Oh ok so if it is then you shouldn't need necro if you think it's that easy.

[hot vigil]

Kinda yes because solo necro is unconditional whereas team revive is have the condition that at least one member of the team need to be alive to either hand rez or necro you.

[verbal marsh]

Are you referring to teams or solo?

[verbal marsh]

Yeah, but that’s counterbalanced by the fact that if you have a teammate alive they can also pressure people off your body which solos can’t

[hot vigil]

They can only play into a 1v2/2v3/1v3 with less tools and leeway than a solo has.
You only almost only get a revive off if you can manage to kill an opponent and "trade" a revive for a revive.

[verbal marsh]

Yeah, which the current iteration of necro only allows to happen once. Additionally, that changes if multiple teams are fighting in the same place and people don’t realise you’re a solo

The old version of necro worked because if a team didn’t have the brains to figure out who was solo and keep an eye on them or the commitment to trap or burn them, then it was possible to come back

But the new version of necro and burning gives this to players without the thought or build commitment behind it

[unborn smelt]

#feedback-discussion message This one maybe ?

[verbal marsh]

It’s just way more free

Oops

Wait

Nvm I’m damaged

Ignore that

Was looking at the wrong screen lmao

[hot vigil]

Old solo didn't work.
It is literally the cause of how fucked the insta burn meta is rn.
Solo complained about getting roasted back then with zero way to get back into the game as much as they do now.
Difference is now that it removed a lot of the pains teams had with solos and can potentially negate and revert the stupid insta burn meta we have rn.

[verbal marsh]

Old solo did work, people just didn’t have the foresight to counter it. If you downed someone, you can wait for them to rush res. You can also trap them. You could also bring a fire bomb. You could also have one person watch while you look for a lantern. You could also bring traps

The times where it wasn’t possible to watch them get up or do this is when you were in a hectic team fight, in which case, it would be no different to someone in a team getting that res off in the chaos

[hot vigil]

That is true for the first month of the trait.
But after that it was everyone complaining (teams and solos) how fucking bad it felt that you were obliged to burn every body you came across, just in case.
Solo Necro and how to counter it got figured out near instantly.
That is why we got dragonsbreath burning bodies.
That is why we got flare/fuses burning bodies.
That is why we got fire beetle burning boddies.
Because the chance of solo necro meant you NEEDED to burn every body you came across.

Or risk getting shot in the back of the head 5-10 min later

[unborn dagger]

My bad, I thought you were saying that solos are able to fight easier.

[verbal marsh]

You don’t have to burn every body just in case, for the most part you could trap them, or even just leave them alone and make a break for it if you weren’t sure who was who and you don’t want to spend the time to commit to burning bodies. It’s something that gets easier with game knowledge and intuition, knowing who is who and fighting for what team

The better you get at the game the less you had to think about who needed burning

And if you don’t want to think about it or don’t have the time, bringing traps and instantly trapping would suffice

[unborn dagger]

Old solo was just awful as it made playing much more passive and less about actually fighting teams. Especially with how slow as fuck burning was.

[verbal marsh]

But the tool slot was a price you had to pay for using items to cover a pack of game knowledge

[hot vigil]

Trapping would require 2 tool slots taken and not even a guarantee it worked.

[verbal marsh]

Yeah, that’s the price you payed for bad game knowledge

It’s a commitment, but so is bringing shotguns to dominate in close quarters

[hot vigil]

No it is the price for ensuring you win.

[verbal marsh]

Yep

So is dedicating your build to close range or long range and not being able to fight out of your range

[hot vigil]

Having a WHOLE meta revolve around the CHANCE there is a solo that MIGHT have Necro is a really fucking bad design.

[unborn dagger]

Facts

[verbal marsh]

If your hunt games revolved around the chance that a solo might res with one shot health and wipe your entire team you had bigger things to worry about

[hot vigil]

Again, I play against 5-6 stars and it happened every time I let a solo be.

[unborn dagger]

That's what made me despise solo necro in the first place. It caused crytek to make flareguns and fusees to cause burn on death and then increase burning speed

[verbal marsh]

Yeah, I also played 5-6 stars and it didn’t happen to me

Have you considered bringing traps if you couldn’t make the right guess? Or a firebomb?

[hot vigil]

Okay, then you play in worse lobbies or with more mercyful solos.

[verbal marsh]

Or I play with solo in mind way better

[hot vigil]

What

I brought the fire, but we both know that solo can surviev a firebomb if you don't watch them burn out

Solo Necro is in a good spot rn, it is a comeback mechanic, which stated by the devs, was all it was meant to be.

[verbal marsh]

I play(ed) a pretty even split of solo and teams and never had an issue with a solo resing and wiping us because it’s something you can be on top of with proper knowledge, precaution, or build dedication

[hot vigil]

Just remove the amount of burn we have back to firebombs and lanterns and the game would be much healthier.

But the requirement of having multiple burn sources ready for 1 player was silly

[verbal marsh]

It’s not a comeback mechanic if it only happens once, can be forced out of you, and functions the same way it used to with a tiny bit more health that does nothing to someone standing over your body

I agree that it could’ve had some tweaking, but they nerfed it in three ways that were over top on their own

[hot vigil]

"..it does give solo players specifically a chance to kind of come back from an unexpected angle, in theory at least have like a second or third go.. ..it have questionable practical effect but the theory is there and the potential is there and that's the most important part, a good team will just to make sure that you will not make it up, like they will set you on fire or they will trap you or just somehow ensure that you cannot just come back from an unexpected angle, but you do have a chance to do this now, but it's not going to be a guaranteed revive however"
From the Devil's Moon Dev Live Stream, with lead game designer Dennis Schwarz talking about solo necro :)

Literally designed to be a slim chance of returning

[verbal marsh]

Yeah, but this could’ve been done before just fine. All this change does is make it so the player has to spend far little effort to ensure this

In the exact same they made fuses and flare guns burn, they made getting rid of solos way more free and easy

[hot vigil]

Placing traps or buying firebombs ain't effort

Watching a solo burn ain't effort

it is tedium

[verbal marsh]

It’s at least some dedication

And if you don’t want to watch them, that’s why you would bring said traps

[hot vigil]

Again, traps, especially on solo necro relase was never a reliable way to keep solo down

[verbal marsh]

You had options available to you depending on your playstyle, but people refused those options because it meant changing to meet the game rather than changing the game to meet them

[verbal marsh]

It was combined with a lantern or firebomb, and it was enough to stop them from being able to charge you if you ran away, or enough to hold them still and do enough damage to put them down again if you were still fighting

[hot vigil]

Because tools are already a crowded sectio.
If you need to bring traps you now have 0 tool options, bc melee and medkit is close to mandatory too.
It is negative in build diversity.

[verbal marsh]

Regardless of how you wanted to handle a solo, be it sitting on them, be it putting them down again, be it running away, there was an option to make that viable

[hot vigil]

Okay, so now you need two traps AND a firebomb.
For the CHANCE that there might be a solo in your game.

[verbal marsh]

Yeah, and weapons are already a crowded section. If you want to dominate a team in close quarters you had to commit to it

[verbal marsh]

Yeah, and now you have a shotgun and a pistol, for the CHANCE that there might be a close range fight

Builds are limited for a reason

[hot vigil]

That is completely different lmao

Weapons are not equal to tools

end of the day weapons does weapon thing.
But tools can do a shit ton of things, but no, we can only bring traps in case of solos

[verbal marsh]

They’re all just your build, and what you bring is based on your ability as a hunter, your playstyle, and how you deal with problems

[hot vigil]

Because you NEED to deal with solos

[verbal marsh]

If you’re in the mindset that you need to deal with solos 100% of the time, all the time, then you can bring traps and play around them

Many people would let solos get a second chance and get up in case they got more action later on

[empty oasis]

@dire violet #game-ideas message Instinct is already integrated into the game as part of the bounty's dark sight now

[hot vigil]

Just remove burn from flares and fuses and the current solo necro gonna be a in great spot.
People will bring firebombs, but they will also have openings for the solo if they are out or wanna find a latern instead.
Reason why that wasn't a possibility before that is because every instance of solo getting up required a fresh source of burning hence why people wanted flare/fuse burning

[hot vigil]

Okay, but that is like... stupid and a sure way to lose?
Like people are allowed to do that, but it is like downing 2 out 3 in trio and then just walk aways and let them revive .

[verbal marsh]

A lot of players like taking that risk, especially since that solo would be in a losing scenario with less health. If you’re in the mindset that you wouldn’t take that risk that’s totally valid, which is why the game gave you the option of getting a trap on their feet while you find a burn option

If you’re also in the mindset that you don’t want to sit there and watch them burn, you don’t have to do that either. The trap and fire are enough to keep them occupied for long enough for you to just leave

[unborn dagger]

That's what I kept saying, I'm not going to let a solo NOT burn out or stay dead. It's incredibly stupid in a game where you can get one tapped.

[hot vigil]

Traps and fire ain't enough, resilience/antidote could negate that.

• salveskin

[verbal marsh]

Well first off that’s two things the solo would have to bring and wouldn’t negate the fire. Salveskin makes it three. Second, it would still waste enough time for you to not be catchable

[hot vigil]

Again have happened to me multiple times, kill solo, try to burn/trap them as much as we can, but bounty is getting away, so we have to leave and as we fighting 3v3, I/my team mate gets shot in the back of the head and we are now sandwiched between a bounty team and solo 2v3v1.

[verbal marsh]

You’re asking for the full reward of fully burning someone out and making them unable to fight without the dedication you would have to take to do so

That’s no different to fighting one team, you get a down, then chase the bounty team to stop them from leaving and be other team comes up from behind

That’s literally just how the game works

And not an issue inherent to solo necro

[hot vigil]

Well, because usually wiping a team doesn't need any burn at all.
Solo lost, suck it up and try the necro or go next.

[hot vigil]

Well, if you wipe a team they ain't coming back

[verbal marsh]

Unless the third player becomes more passive so you have to burn their teammates out

All this means is that there are different ways to stop a solo than a team, and that results in different scenarios and more interesting engagements

They were equal before, with different requirements to get people out

[hot vigil]

A passive 3rd player that runs 100m away also needs to run 100m back again to choke, which in that case is too late to save their friend.
Solo can get up as soon they want to minimize burning.

[verbal marsh]

Solo necro was stronger than team necro in some places, while team necro or normal res was stronger in others

For example, if you encountered a solo and got the jump on them, took control of their body and got them out there was nothing they could do about it

If it was a team member you still had to wipe the rest of the team

[hot vigil]

I don't want to call it strong, it was zero-sum mechanic where it sucked for everyone and the meta.

[verbal marsh]

It was stronger in some ways and weaker in others. All in all it was equal to team res, but different

I wouldn’t say that makes it awful and sucks and bad for meta

Just means you have to adapt

Forcing a game to change around what you want makes everything viable, and that’s how we end up with the levering and fanning and instaburn and Avto Dolch mosin meta we have now

[hot vigil]

Adaptation can still suck.
The game slowed down with non-gameplay, SEVERLY limited tool/consumable meta and it didn't make anyone happy.

[verbal marsh]

The game offered you confirmed ways to get people out, teams or solo, and if you didn’t want the tedium of confirming it or the commitment to make it easier, then you run risks in a very hardcore game

[hot vigil]

I don't say that, I just say I want more build diversity instead of less.
Solo made certain play/meta mandatory, lest you wanted to play at a severe disadvantage.

[verbal marsh]

Making everyone burn out and making solo necro one charge only contributes to stalemates and slowed down gameplay

[verbal marsh]

How?

What play did it force?

[hot vigil]

It forced to have tools to deal with solos at anytime.

[verbal marsh]

Cus currently it being one single charge means that once it’s gone you’re encouraged to just not take part in a fight

[verbal marsh]

You’re only forced to if you don’t want to use the in world tools at your disposal and your own game knowledge

[hot vigil]

I am also not completely happy with the solution they made for solo necro now.

[verbal marsh]

If you have the game knowledge to confirm someone as a solo you could wait for them to res and have your buddy get a lantern

If you didn’t want to do that then you had to build around it

[hot vigil]

World tools, lanterns which could be 1-100m away from the solo and they should just revive once to negate that and then you had to find another.

[verbal marsh]

The same way you have to build around the types of engagements you favour

[verbal marsh]

You still have your guns and multiple players

[hot vigil]

I've lost a lot of bounties on that

[hot vigil]

That doesn't redskull a solo willing to wait until you gone

[verbal marsh]

There’s tedium in wiping out teams that are playing passively, there’s tedium in killing snipers, that doesn’t mean the answer is to just delete that playstyle from the game

[hot vigil]

Solo played solo before solo necro

it is still here

It ain't deleted, just harder

which

it was always meant to be

[unborn dagger]

^

[verbal marsh]

You can have difficulty without unfairness.

[hot vigil]

Solo choose to play into unfair match ups.

[verbal marsh]

This might surprise you but it’s pretty hard to beat three people as one person without just being better than them

That’s the price you pay to be solo

[hot vigil]

Play into duos then if trios are too hard

[verbal marsh]

Even then

[hot vigil]

Like the NOTION that 1v3 should be the default solo experience is wild to me.

1v2, you ambush one guy and it is a 1v1.

[verbal marsh]

Killing two people playing as a team as one person is pretty tough, and it gets even harder when there as many as five of those teams against you

[hot vigil]

You conc bomb the body from safe distance and it stays like that

[hot vigil]

Well, solo is the hard mode for Hunt.

Always has been

[verbal marsh]

Yeah, it’s innately hard in that you’re already outnumbered and outgunned. The deciding factor should be that you have the skill to beat the odds

Not that the enemies got lucky early on and now you’re just done

Not that you have less tools than they do

[hot vigil]

Lucky how?

Literally lucky how?

[verbal marsh]

For example, they got a lucky headshot, you happened to accidentally trigger a noise trap first so they stealthed, maybe you got an arm shot with slugs, maybe you traded with one of them

[hot vigil]

How is that different if it happens to my team and I?

[verbal marsh]

The difference is you still have two teammates once that happens to one person

For solo that’s just the end

[hot vigil]

I've been team wiped in less than 3 seconds before.
Is that just "lucky headshots"

Like that is thte game

you get outplayed

and you out

[verbal marsh]

Yeah, but it takes far less luck or skill to do that to one person

[hot vigil]

There is very little RNG in Hunt (sligthly more with nitro/slug nerfs).

[verbal marsh]

So do dualies, fanning and levering not exist anymore?

What about buckshot spread and pennyshot spread?

[hot vigil]

Once again, how is that more unlucky for solo than for a team?

[verbal marsh]

Because for trios you have to have that happen three times

For solos you only need that once

[hot vigil]

So what?
THat is the game, that is what you signing up for

[verbal marsh]

Yeah, same goes for solos being able to chase you if you don’t want to burn them out

[hot vigil]

You CHOOSE to go in solo, then you need to adapt

[verbal marsh]

That’s the game, that’s what you signed up

You CHOSE not to burn the body and watch it

[hot vigil]

Solo Necro was added into hunt MANY years later I started playing it :)

Solo was always an option

[verbal marsh]

Yeah it’s tedium, but dying to that bad luck because the odds aren’t in your favour isn’t exactly a good thing

And?

That doesn’t mean it was fun or good or playable

Soul survivor has been in since the start

That doesn’t mean that’s in a good state

[hot vigil]

I know plenty of vets who hated what solo became and missed the old solo.

[verbal marsh]

Yeah, plenty of people who wanted hunt to be more like tarkov I imagine

[hot vigil]

Nevertheless you want your freebies for solos, I cannot change that.
I hope they nerf burn options and that can maybe make the game healthy for everyone.

[verbal marsh]

Hunt is its own game, and it excels with comebacks and fairness, it’s slow and calculated, not frantic, ratty and unfair

Games like tarkov exist for the people who want that

Hunt is so good because it actually takes skill and is rewarding for it

[hot vigil]

Lmao laugh in Dolch

What is old Avto

[verbal marsh]

Yeah, let’s ignore that

[hot vigil]

What is old quartemaster

[verbal marsh]

But that does kinda just reinforce my point

[hot vigil]

ADADADADAD meta

like hunt have been A LOT of things

[verbal marsh]

These things are universally agreed upon as bad for the game

Why do we suddenly think adding more is a good thing?

[hot vigil]

And seems like a lot of people agree that solo necro has been bad for the game.

Like

[verbal marsh]

Yeah, a lot of people also love Dolch and Avto

[hot vigil]

Sure, bc it is easy and deals a lot of damage

[verbal marsh]

It’s not a backstab

But yeah

That’s what I’m saying

It’s low skill, high reward

And dying to that isn’t fun

[hot vigil]

Almost like solo necro

In its old form

[verbal marsh]

That would make sense if there wasn’t already so much against solo, and also ways to deal with it

If you choose not to engage with the counters the game provided you with, that’s on you

And regardless of if you like how it used to be or not, pushing this in the direction of low skill, high reward, is not the right choice

I would be open to it getting changed from old necro to something else, provided it actually required insight, commitment or skill

[hot vigil]

Again, I don't think the current form is the best solo necro we could have.
I would rather have solo necro work in a way where solos had multiple revives but every instance of revive had a 20'ish seconds timer before it expired.
Bc the core issue with solo necro is that it was a viable play to get up and start brew some tea.
That ain't a engaging nor skillful play and just hoping that you were forgotten OR the enemy team got a stroke or something.

Same reason why I don't like flare/fuses, they are SO free that it ain't a choice to burn, but a follow up

[verbal marsh]

Oh yeah, don’t get me wrong during devils moon I made a post here complaining about it because I’d had a half an hour long fight just for a solo that died at the start to get up after that literal 30 minute long fight and headshot me while I was looting someone

[unborn dagger]

You mean like 20 seconds until they are perma death?

[verbal marsh]

Yeah I totally agree that having a timer on resing is a good idea, but maybe make it more akin to 5 minutes at the higher end or a minute at the lower end

[hot vigil]

Yes

[verbal marsh]

That way there’s still room to get up at a good moment but you’re not forced to get up at a completely inopportune moment

[unborn dagger]

Oh then yeah I'd be fine with something like that.

[hot vigil]

5 min is more than burning, so burning would become the go-to again.

You need to make it less than burning

[verbal marsh]

Yeah, as a back up

But yeah that was a higher end suggestion

They could make it so that hunters stay on fire after they res if they were burning so they have to stop and put the fire out

Meaning they can’t just run to safety with 0 pressure when they get up

And if you down them before they cure it then they stay on fire on the ground

[hot vigil]

again, revert burn speed or at least make it 1min10secs or something like that (from current 2.5hp/s to 1.78hp/s).
Then you can play with the wiggle room for the solo necro timer.

[verbal marsh]

Yeah

[hot vigil]

Also this would fix the "solo jumped into a river" situation which is kinda toxic lol

[verbal marsh]

I’m fine with it being nerfed from one it was before, as long as it still encourages skill and counterplay, rather than having zero commitment, completely free kills

I just really cannot express enough how bad this current form of necro is in terms of fun

Not only does it make solo worse it makes teams stalemate faster because they can’t get their buddies up when they otherwise would’ve been able to

Completely goes against everything crytek are saying

To make it less free they could’ve made it so you can’t necro bodies that are burning

So you at least have to do something and get near that body with a choke to be able to try and go for it

So the other team can try and respond

[hot vigil]

I kinda like the one use for teams

Bc it was stupid before hand

Necro was flying left and right

[verbal marsh]

It could be, I didn’t feel it was oppressive beforehand though

If other people did then yeah they can nerf it

But I’m not in favour of nerfs that reduce interaction rather than promote it

[hot vigil]

It weren't oppressive, but it was just boring.

[verbal marsh]

It was boring? How? Surely it means more fighting, and therefore more gameplay

lol

If people just spam it you just farm the body

[hot vigil]

It was boring in the sense it made fights center around 1 point of a whole compound, bc you could NOT leave that body outta sight.
Which in turn made fights either stalemates or chaotic, didn't really have that "slow and tactical" feel to it as old hunt

It is more a "people have gotten too got at the game now"

problem

[verbal marsh]

Thats the case with bodies even without necro tho? You're not going to want to just leave the area with the body or youre handing them a free hand res

[hot vigil]

No, but with necro you can easily get up some bad positioned deaths from a safe distance.

[verbal marsh]

That hasnt changed lol

[hot vigil]

Sure, but the one time use means it happens max trices during fight.

All about war of attrition.

[verbal marsh]

Yeah, but once it happened once you knew it was in play, and you could play around it

[hot vigil]

Well, that is the issue, it was so meta you always assumed so

[verbal marsh]

It literally just promoted more activity and more ineraction

That doesnt mean it was bad for tha game

Usually people use things more because it makes the game feel better

Granted sometimes its because theyre overtuned

[hot vigil]

Not true

People WILL use something if its really good

[verbal marsh]

But that's like saying doctor, physician, conduit all need to removed

And stam shots

[hot vigil]

I have opinons about those

for sure

[verbal marsh]

And regen shots

[hot vigil]

especially stam and regen shots

And conduit did get nerfed

[verbal marsh]

Yeah, but its still extremely popular

it also got buffed

Cus now it affects everyone who has it in the team rather than just the person who got the clue

[hot vigil]

Sure, but it popular bc it removes a whole aspect of the game

stam management

that was also why antidote got nerfed form 60min to 20min to now 10min

[verbal marsh]

Its liked because it reduces the slowdown when running in the early game

[hot vigil]

Same way necro makes up for bad misplays.

[verbal marsh]

Yeah and medkits make up for getting hit xd

There's supposed to be a way to come back

Necro allowed you to go for a res once you made an opening to do so

[hot vigil]

Medkits is a resource, old necro weren't as soon we got regen shots

[hot vigil]

more than once

nvm misread

got you point

again

[verbal marsh]

Only if the enemy team isnt actually keeping an eye on the body which would be stupid and a misplay from them

[hot vigil]

Dunno, Hunt pre-necro just played differently in a more interesting way imo.

[verbal marsh]

Your points only work if youre assuming that the counterplay isnt there

[hot vigil]

I do assume there is counter play, but necro had become too mandatory, once again, you played at SEVERE disadvantage without it.

[verbal marsh]

The simplicity of hunt definitely works in its favour, but making comebacks more possible whilst still having it counterable with ways to play around it isnt a bad thing just because its not old hunt

[hot vigil]

Then make necro a non-trait

Make it part of the standard kit

[verbal marsh]

I would be down for that

That way you could balance around everyone having it

But currently having necro means "great, i have to spend trait points on something i might not even get value of"

[hot vigil]

That said, think it being burn trait is the right place.
It makes it a strategic resource like many other things.

[verbal marsh]

and not having necro means you dont have it when it could win the game for your team

Now its just way more annoying than it was before

Especially if you have multiple separate fights in one match

[hot vigil]

I mean... just don't die in bad spots?

I see a lot of player movement that is very thoughtless

[verbal marsh]

Oftentimes you'll use your necro in a fight early on and then just not have it for later fights even though youre basically in the same scenario as you were before

[hot vigil]

And might been from my PUBG days where dying in the open was an instant death as the enemy could just follow up instantly and kill you.
So you had to learn to position and move in around so you minimized that.

[hot vigil]

Again, more interesting choice, do I try the necro now or can I create an opening for a hand rez

[verbal marsh]

Yeah, and pubg was a very early battle royale, and ways to bring the team back from permadeath were widely adopted in battle royales afterwards because it makes things way more interesting

[verbal marsh]

It was already interesting before

[hot vigil]

In pubg you didn't die instantly

[verbal marsh]

Going for a necro meant you couldnt give better cover

And the chances are they get farmed

[hot vigil]

Going for necro just meant you didn't have to take the risk.

[verbal marsh]

Yeah, and because of that, your teammate being revived was also more likely to be farmed

There was push and pull to it

[hot vigil]

Someone dying in cover but across the road?
Don't have find a way to get over there, just necro!
Literally easy mode

[verbal marsh]

The requirement for necro to work was making a situation where it could

You're also going to get that from bringing chokes or a dynamite to cover it

Of course its going to make things easier, its a trait that you have to bring

Physician also lets you survive in places you otherwise wouldnt

Ghoul lets you stay on good health without the risk of running around on low health until you find a world medkit or use one of your own

Traits are designed to make aspects of the game that are punishing less so

Just because it does its job well that doesnt mean there isnt counterplay

Even if I personally dont think it was overtuned, I would still be open to it being nerfed, provided it encouraged more interaction and counterplay rather than less

[hot vigil]

Again, I have opinons about a myriad of traits.
Sure they can create openings and give you new play patterns.
But as I said in the beginning necro is too free to not be a burn trait.

[verbal marsh]

Yeah, that doesnt mean the solution is to make less interaction

[hot vigil]

It still have the same interaction tho?

It just requires more skill and game knowledge

[verbal marsh]

It is literally reduced to one charge, physically lowering the amount of times it can come in handy

[hot vigil]

Like how dauntless is a skill check trait.

[verbal marsh]

Skill and game knowledge are all fine and dandy making it work in one fight

But that doesnt change that if you use it at the right moment and save a fight early on youre then screwed out of using it in another fight later

So should we make dauntless one charge then?

And if you miss the dauntless thats the only shot you get for it?

[hot vigil]

Then you just need to play around the fact you don't have it anymore?
Like how if I don't have levering I wont make levering plays?

[verbal marsh]

Then make levering a burn trait

lol

Youre comparing it to things as though they are equal and yet treating them as needing different solutions

[hot vigil]

No because dauntless is insanely skill dependent.
If dauntless automatically defused any throwable that can within 1m of you, then yes it should be a 1 charge and cost like... 5 points lol

[verbal marsh]

Yeah, and necro is dependent on there being an opening for it and you using it at the right time

Necro doesnt automatically get your teammate alive and put them in cover on good health

If necro works its because the enemy team misplayed or your team made an opening for it to work

both of which are totally fair reasons

[hot vigil]

I'm treating them for the power they bring.
Necro should be a 8-9 point trait if you want infinite charges, but that would make solos complain that they can't get it outta the gate.
So it needs to be limited somehow, hence burn trait.

[verbal marsh]

If it was 8 points you could literally buy it from a starting hunter

So that point is moot

[hot vigil]

Sure, but you wouldn't have 2-3 other skills either

[verbal marsh]

I would be fine with that

[hot vigil]

Like few people sell all traits to get doctor

[verbal marsh]

Previously if you wanted necro as a solo youd have to get resilience too

[hot vigil]

Doctor is great, don't get me wrong

[verbal marsh]

Which means you could only start with a single 1 point trait

So youve basically suggested the ideal change is to revert it to old necro and resilience

lol

[hot vigil]

No? you'd had 2.

[verbal marsh]

you previously start with 8 trait points, sometimes 7, allowing you to get necro and resilience and maybe a single point trait like magpie or dauntless

[hot vigil]

I mean for my play group, necro + resilience is the go to starter.
Bc without necro you are a liability to the team and without resilience you are liability for your necro buddy.

[verbal marsh]

Yep, same here

[hot vigil]

And that is an indication the amount of power they bring

which is back to

less diversity of builds

[verbal marsh]

So do you run 3 50 health bars in teams?

[trail carbon]

I like the change to necro, it no longer feels like everyone has it

[hot vigil]

big small big small atm.

[verbal marsh]

Then delete three 50 bars as an option

Since everyone uses the obviously better option

[hot vigil]

Same, think this is the first time I've heard someone dislike the necro change for teams.

[verbal marsh]

Do you run budget guns every single game?

[trail carbon]

Wait why

[hot vigil]

three big bars is viable for solos

[verbal marsh]

With the current way necro works with restoration yeah

[trail carbon]

I like big small small big personally

[verbal marsh]

But in teams, why allow people to have three fifties if big small big small or four smalls is just the better option

[hot vigil]

I want it to be about choice.

THat is my whole ass point

[trail carbon]

I mean, some people like three bug bars even in a team

[hot vigil]

that when necro is too strong it LIMITS choice

[verbal marsh]

Yeah, but if the obvious choice is to just take the better option why would anyone take 50s in teams?

[trail carbon]

Why take it away?

[verbal marsh]

Thats what im saying Nason

The obvious choice is to take the better traits, ie necro and resilience

[trail carbon]

What

You're advocating to take away the option

My question is why

[verbal marsh]

No, i'm making a devils advocate argument following mccree's line of logic

[hot vigil]

Ravyn just can't comprehend I want the super strong options to be less strong.

So it encourage diversity

in builds

[trail carbon]

I didn't like the old necro and Resilience combo

[verbal marsh]

I can, I'm just showing you that youre not applying the same logic to the other aspects of the game

[hot vigil]

Such as?

[trail carbon]

Personally, I don't like either trait at all as a concept, but whatever.

[verbal marsh]

Health bars and the weapons you bring

Youre not running the worst bars because why would you?

[hot vigil]

I do? I wish for every weapon and heath bar set up to have upsides and downsides.

[trail carbon]

I don't understand how his argument equates to "remove x thing because nobody uses it"

[verbal marsh]

Youre not running a nagant precision and a machete because why would you?

[trail carbon]

I mean, you totally could, and it wouldn't be unusable or anything

[hot vigil]

You literally losing the thread here buddy.

[verbal marsh]

Youre going to run the better options that are available to you if you can

[trail carbon]

No?

I play to have fun

Not spam mosin dolch every match

[verbal marsh]

Yeah, exactly. In teams you could run something less meta than necro and resilience because you can still have fun without it

[hot vigil]

No?
But there are limits on how much I can gimp myself before I don't play hunt anymore and just die to my opponents

[trail carbon]

Sooooo, what's your point?

[verbal marsh]

Like I could start with just levering and anything else with a terminus as a starter option in a team fight and still do better than i could with necro and resilience

[verbal marsh]

My point is that youre still able to pick the lesser option in any aspect of the game even if its not the smartest choice to do so

[trail carbon]

Sure, I still don't get what you're going for here

[verbal marsh]

And nerfing necro to make people use other stuff doesnt make sense

[trail carbon]

Not the reason it was nerfed

It was nerfed because it was ridiculous

[verbal marsh]

No but its the reason that mccree is stating

which is why i was bringing it up

[trail carbon]

Is it?

[verbal marsh]

Yes

[trail carbon]

I read a decent bit, and that's not the feeling I got

[hot vigil]

I said, I like new necro more bc the old one was so stupid powerful.

[trail carbon]

Yeah

It was

[verbal marsh]

You said you like new necro becuase it encourages diversity

[trail carbon]

I mean, that is one positive of it

[hot vigil]

That it became sucha meta pick where NOT picking it would put your team at a severe disadvantage.

[verbal marsh]

Which you said in response to me saying that old necro wasnt stupid powerful unless the enemy team slipped up or your team made it work

[trail carbon]

everyone was running it before because it was so ridiculous

Kind of like how everyone has a spear right now

[hot vigil]

And some the gripes I have with iron eye giving increase cycling speed.

[verbal marsh]

I dont run spear when i have a melee attachment or weapon

[hot vigil]

Doesn't make the spear less strong

[verbal marsh]

There are reasons not to use it, its used extremely commonly yeah, i think if they reduced the melee damage it did to be normal it would be fine

Maybe stop it from one shotting to limbs

Im not going to say make the spear one use

What would be your change to the spear then?

[hot vigil]

But why nerf/adjust spear when you opposed nerf/adjusting necro?

[verbal marsh]

Im not opposed to nerfing or adjusting necro. Ive said that already

Multiple times actually

Im opposed to nerfing it in a way that decreases interaction

[hot vigil]

It works just the same, just once.

[verbal marsh]

So not the same

Tell me how you would nerf the spear

[hot vigil]

Why?

[verbal marsh]

Because i want to see how it lines up to the philosophy that youre applying to necro

[hot vigil]

So, like necro, I want it to become a less "mandatory" pick.
Because issue is never if something is strong or good, but if its dominates its contemporary alternatives.

In this case tools

[verbal marsh]

Yeah, but how

[hot vigil]

I would mostly nerf throw speed and damage to limbs.
Ideally I would like it as a weapon, but I know Crytek wont do that.

[verbal marsh]

So yeah, you would make it the same, but less opressive in its use cases, rather than making it so you only get one spear throw per game

Your nerf to the spear lines up better with how i would nerf necro

ie, by making it so necro cant be used on burning bodies

[hot vigil]

That is a sucha a leap in logic that I'm frankly dumbfonded.
Spear is not even the same CATEGORY as Necro.

[verbal marsh]

[hot vigil]

You cannot balance a tool like you balance traits or vice versa

[trail carbon]

The spear isn't a trait... so making it one use per game wouldn't make sense

In a similar vein, the Katana could also use a nerf, as it is currently the best melee weapon, and its not even close. But you wouldn't make it one use ler game because that wouldn't make sense

[verbal marsh]

Exactly, why does it suddenly make sense for a trait

[trail carbon]

Necro was made a burn trait because it made sense, was a community suggested change for a long while

Traits are balanced differently than weapons

[verbal marsh]

The philosophy remains the same. Something is overperforming its contenders, making it a mandatory pick. The change to necro made it a one time all or nothing pick. Applying the same idea to the spear, making it an all or nothing instakill would be the same kind of idea

You both correctly suggest that making it all or nothing isnt a great idea, i wholeheartedly agree

[trail carbon]

I don't get what's hard to understand about differences in category requiring differences in balance

[hot vigil]

Yeah same here

[verbal marsh]

Its not differences in balance, its differences in design philosophy

[trail carbon]

Yes, the original design was flawed, correct

[verbal marsh]

Why is that a stupid change for the spear and not a stupid change for necro?

[trail carbon]

And so then, it was balanced accordingly

[verbal marsh]

No kidding

[trail carbon]

Because its not a one size fits all

[verbal marsh]

Stating it was changed doesnt mean it was the right change

[trail carbon]

It doesn't work that way

[verbal marsh]

You can state that all you like

You are yet to give me a reason why

[trail carbon]

You can't just slap a slower reload speed on any good weapon and say that is a balancing factor

Because it would affect different guns differently

Slower reload on the romero would cripple it, while on the dolch, not so much

You see how balance isn't a one size fits all?

[verbal marsh]

This isn't something as nuanced as individual weapon statistics

[trail carbon]

You're right, it's less nuanced

[verbal marsh]

And also, the alamo is not overperforming, while the dolch is

Your example is logically flawed

[trail carbon]

Didn't say it was

[verbal marsh]

It would be more like giving the dolch and the avtomat a slower reload

[trail carbon]

Just an example

[verbal marsh]

Which would make sense as a balancing decision

[hot vigil]

Okay, what about rampage? Or any of the other burn traits?
Ain't that unfair they only good for one use?

[trail carbon]

That nerf wouldn't work for either of those weapons very well, should you nerf them that way

[verbal marsh]

Theyre not seen by basically anyone as overperforming, why would they

[trail carbon]

How else would you nerf necro then

[verbal marsh]

Like I said, I would make it so necro cant be used on bodies that are burning

[trail carbon]

That go for solo necro as well?

[hot vigil]

Well they ain't over performing bc they are scarce AND burn traits, they haven't gotten the chance to over perform like nccro did.

[verbal marsh]

No, because solo necro isnt the same as team necro

[verbal marsh]

Correct, point being?

[trail carbon]

Do you think solo necro being a burn trait is fine

[verbal marsh]

No

[trail carbon]

Why

[hot vigil]

That you are making assumptions about their power level based on lack of data they provide.
If rampage was a non-burn 4 point trait like necro you'd see it become meta instantly .

[verbal marsh]

Ive already explained several times. One, it promotes leaving the game the second you use it successfully. Two, it's an unfair disadvantage because its the ONLY way that a solo can revive, meanwhile teams can hand revive without traits. Solo is already at an unfair disadvantage and doesnt need more

[trail carbon]

Oh yeah, rampage is ridiculous, but I won't get into how I feel about the scarce traits

[verbal marsh]

I would be open to old necro being nerfed, but this change encourages less interaction

[trail carbon]

I mean, I really don't think Solos should be equal to the teams they face

[verbal marsh]

Well no, because the entire point of its design is that it IS a burn trait

[trail carbon]

I play as a solo myself for context

[hot vigil]

For sure, I can also not believe we got witness as a free trait, but guess people don't understad the true power level of it yet.

[verbal marsh]

If it was made to not be a burn trait I would see it not giving bars back but giving you a full heal instead

[trail carbon]

Yeah it's ridiculous

[verbal marsh]

Which would actually make a lot of sense for a trait

[hot vigil]

And why can't necro be that?

[verbal marsh]

Thats exactly my point, trying to force something that wasnt designed as a burn trait to be one doesnt work

[trail carbon]

Yeah, why can't they change the trait's design

Why is that an issue

[verbal marsh]

They can, just not in a way that encourages less interaction

As ive said multiple times

Youre acting like im against it getting nerfed

[trail carbon]

I would've honestly been fine with them outright removing necro

[verbal marsh]

Which im not

Thanks for sharing

[trail carbon]

No need to be rude now

[verbal marsh]

Lol, I wasnt trying to

Apologies if it came across that way

[trail carbon]

You're fine

[verbal marsh]

Just not much point in stating opinions here

amounts to nothing

[trail carbon]

But I felt it was relevant because to me, it feels like a whole new trait

[verbal marsh]

Yeah, but just because something needs a nerf that doesnt mean this is the right one

[trail carbon]

And I don't hate new necro, though I'm still not the biggest fan, I think it's a pretty balanced trait

[verbal marsh]

Its balanced in a way that isnt good for game health

It promotes sweatier, more unforgiving gameplay

Which is exactly why there is nothing but instaburn, mosin dolch auto 5 spam

[hot vigil]

That is what Hunt have always been about

unforgiving gameplay

Like

[verbal marsh]

Sorry, I meant unfair, not unforgiving

You can have unforgiving without it being unfair

For example, dark souls is unforgiving, but not unfair

And currently, necro for solo is unfair, because it takes away a tool that everyone else has

Yes youre at a disadvantage because youre one person against multiple people

Thats taken into account just by being outnumbered

[hot vigil]

A tool Solo got many years later into development.
Also Necro was also not a day one trait, it came later.

[verbal marsh]

Yeah, it was added for a reason

It wasnt just a "what if we change the game for no particular reason"

[hot vigil]

It was added to spice things up, but now the whole dish taste like Necro and they spiced it down.

[verbal marsh]

In the wrong way

Im still perfectly fine with it being tuned down

[hot vigil]

Dunno, I hear very few complain about the new necro from teams.

[verbal marsh]

My team hates it, so do a lot of other people

You also hear people advocating for dolch and avto

[hot vigil]

Okay, my team loves it, so do a lot of other people.

Like

[verbal marsh]

Yeah, and a lot of people hate it

lol

A lot of people also love instaburn

A lot of people also loved solo necro when it was trialled in devils moon, which is why it stuck around

Oftentimes the playerbase pushes for a game to be made into something awful so that it suits what they want from a game

[hot vigil]

My point was more that it is moot point of argument.
I know there are people not liking it, I assume so.
But go into reddit or this discord and search the new necro and there are very few voices against the change for teams.

[verbal marsh]

I imagine there would be, but teams isnt the only thing you can search for in hunt

There are very few people voicing soul survivor to be changed, even though its communally agreed upon as pretty bad

Making an entire portion of the playerbase through making solo partially redundant is not the right call

If people didnt disagree with the change it wouldnt be a point of contention and debate throughout the community

[hot vigil]

Still doesn't dismiss the fact that feedback about necro for teams is voice positive when you search for it :)

[verbal marsh]

Yeah, and do you remember how many people in the community wanted flares and fusees to burn bodies before that change got published?

[hot vigil]

You are literally the first person here not liking necro change for teams.

[hot vigil]

Because they needed burning on demand for solos

[verbal marsh]

It was said way before that was even a thing

Because flares and fusees were pointless

And by buffing it they would have use

[hot vigil]

They had a use, people just prefered throwing axes

[verbal marsh]

Alright, even if im outspoken that doesnt mean what im saying is wrong, and if the only point I concede to you is that im outspoken then I wouldnt say thats a particularly convincing argument

[hot vigil]

And now throwing axes are dead because of spears

[verbal marsh]

Because it was the obvious take

Because axes were just better

Just like how necro is just better than every other starting option in teams

[trail carbon]

Yeah, now that solo necro is nowhere near as awful to deal with, I'd be fine with going back to flares, fusees, etc not burning downed hunters

[hot vigil]

Same :)

Actually wrote in feedback before the release of the patch

That they should revert due to necro and burn changes

But Crytek rarely have such foresight

[trail carbon]

The necro nerf was one of the biggest positives about this patch for me honestly. People aren't just spamming solo because it's easier than teams

[verbal marsh]

So what you're saying is, a bandaid blanket nerf to one thing that was overperforming turned out to be a bad idea that they need to then revert down the line?

[trail carbon]

Solo once again feels like an actual challenge, though, still less than what it once was.

[trail carbon]

Well, it wasn't the actual issue

Necro was

I think the fusees and flare pistol burning combined with burn speed buff is what isn't the greatest.

[verbal marsh]

And that means that making an over the top change is the right call all of a sudden?

[trail carbon]

I don't like, vehemently despise it or anything, but I could deal with a little dial back

[trail carbon]

I don't think it was over the top

[hot vigil]

Yes and making it cost either 8 or 20 points ain't gonna change that as long you have unlimited uses for it.
Hence it needed to be limited.
They could increase health drain, but that doesn't matter due to regen.
They could increase deploy time, but that would most likely make it useless with like 1 in 100 chance to work.
They could make it burn bars of the user, but that would also just make it too big of a cost.
So making it 1 charge seemed like the most elegant solution.

[verbal marsh]

You really dont think that desolations wake wasnt miserably sweaty and burn heavy?

[trail carbon]

The main issue with necro was people using it too often, so making it a burn trait fixes that, and uses a mechanic they have already previously established

[verbal marsh]

You say that like limiting the use of it is the only option they have

Yeah you listed a few others but that doesnt mean there arent more

(like the one i suggested)

[hot vigil]

Which was?

[verbal marsh]

Necro wouldnt be useable on hunters that are burning

[hot vigil]

Ah yes, make burn meta more mandatory

We are trying to make insta burn less of a thing please

[verbal marsh]

It wouldnt be mandatory, but it would mean that you could deny repeated attempts for necro once you knew it was in play

[trail carbon]

I personally dont instaburn people that often now that necro got nerfed, but if someone runs off and I have their friend dead on the geound, I'll burn them

[verbal marsh]

Could even change it to poisoning hunter bodies, fuck make a whole system for it

[trail carbon]

But burning is so fast now that there isn't much response time

[hot vigil]

Well, I do because it is SO punishing rn.
But in the future sure haha

[trail carbon]

A single use of necro is enough to win a fight though

[verbal marsh]

PROVIDED you make an opening for it or the enemy team misplays

In the same way that a single use of doctor can win a fight

Or a single headshot can win a fight

[trail carbon]

I mean, I used to always expect it, but now it surprises me when it happens

[verbal marsh]

These things are still skill and knowledge dependant

[hot vigil]

Not assuming necro is always in play is simply just bad understanding of the game.
A 4 point trait that get people up for free at distance? I assume it will ALWAY be there.

[trail carbon]

Most things are in hunt, just some is less so

[verbal marsh]

So why is it any different now? You don't know if a team has used it or not, they may use it once but they could still use it a second time

The actual gameplay implications havent changed

You still need to play around it

Its just less likely to be there for you when you actually use it well

[trail carbon]

People can't just spam it now, they actually have to think about when to use it

[verbal marsh]

Personally, i prefer going "okay, they might necro here so ill try and find a trap or fire throwable to make it harder" rather than just sitting in a building and waiting for the last guy of a trio to come to the bodies to res by hand

I prefer being rewarded for thinking ahead and countering my enemy rather than sitting still and waiting for people to grow a pair

[hot vigil]

Sure, but there are more risk/reward to it now, so people will think twice before sending a necro.

• as soon they get it up once you can make a mental note of "one necro used".
  Like how you can count bullets and med kits to anticipate player actions.

[trail carbon]

Personally, I will hunt the last guy down and murder him in cold blood.

[verbal marsh]

Then the last guy necro reses the second you leave his buddies' bodies

[trail carbon]

That's why you burn em

[verbal marsh]

you get hit by some guy on a new team you hadnt heard coming and he goes and reses the team while youre in trouble

He can still necro them when theyre on fire

[trail carbon]

Or have a friend watching them if you aren't a soli

[trail carbon]

Yeah, but he still get put back down

[verbal marsh]

In which case youre pushing by yourself and could easily die and get burned by him

[verbal marsh]

this didnt make much sense

[trail carbon]

If I'm burning right now, I'll just wait the burn out, nothing you can really do if you're more than 80m away

[hot vigil]

Okay, you push he necro his buddy, but dies to you bc he necros.
Now you have one opponent that it least one bar down and you are on top of his friend who is also a bar down and about to be burned.

[trail carbon]

So if he gets necrod while burning, he gets shot again

[verbal marsh]

And you couldnt do that with going "okay, they used necro once, ill trap his buddies or burn them out now"?

[verbal marsh]

Exactly, which is what im saying

[trail carbon]

I meam, you can, but it just feels too slow to me, also I don't bring traps

[verbal marsh]

I would rather have more fighting and more tactics involved with how i deal with the enemy rather than sitting still in one place

[hot vigil]

Well, circumstances might not allow me to do such.

[trail carbon]

I don't really like to instaburn people though if I know their friends are close

[verbal marsh]

Circumstances might also not allow you to stop bleed or prevent being rushed

Those circumstances are down to how your opponent plays

[hot vigil]

also please consider that crytek have data, they can see how many time necro gets brought and how much they get used.
I'm sure the one charge use came from that data.

[verbal marsh]

And personally I prefer it if people are rewarded for correct agression

[trail carbon]

What is correct agression?

[verbal marsh]

Making the right play based around information you have gathered and tactical openings you have created

[hot vigil]

And prefer when people are punished for bad plays.
Which Necro lessen as it makes it easier to recover form bad deaths.

[verbal marsh]

something that isnt free, but that you caused

By making the right decision

[trail carbon]

I mean, that's Hunt. Necro doesn't change that

[verbal marsh]

A bad necro play results in that person going down immediately

That punishment already exists

[trail carbon]

But necro can erase a bad play

[verbal marsh]

So can landing a headshot

Thats the entire point of it

[trail carbon]

I mean

One is significantly more skill based

[verbal marsh]

Your tactical use of the tools available to you determines the likelihood of your victory

[trail carbon]

Necro has a very low skill ceiling and a very low skill floor

[verbal marsh]

Necro is easy to use but it relies on the opponent making a mistake, which wont happen in higher mmr

[trail carbon]

Not exactly hard to use

[verbal marsh]

Exactly, the low skill ceiling means it wont work in higher skill environments

Its something you can expect to happen and play around

And its something that wont work if the enemy is conscious of it

[trail carbon]

Still was super annoying to deal with, and dragged the game out, causing less fun

[verbal marsh]

But something that can be made to work if the team secures the necro play properly

[trail carbon]

I play primarily in 5 star, but occasionally 6 star land. People still use necro a lot

[verbal marsh]

If youre refering to having more action as dragging the game out then i think you're just playing the wrong game

[trail carbon]

Even after the nerf mind you

[verbal marsh]

Yeah, and they have to make it work

[trail carbon]

It isn't hard

[verbal marsh]

Otherwise its pointless

Then play around it better

[trail carbon]

You can't constantly watch a body unless you enjoy sitting and waiting

[verbal marsh]

No but thats true for hand reses too

Necro doesnt change that

[trail carbon]

Sure, but necro removes the risk from yourself

[verbal marsh]

And removes the cover you can give them

Increasing the risk of the res

[trail carbon]

And places all the risk on your downed ally, except they dont incur more risk than a hand res

[verbal marsh]

Exactly lol

Its not "free" any more so than a hand res is

[hot vigil]

Except it doesn't always, it can give revives from unreachable positions where the body is otherwise in cover, across a road or up in a tower.
The player who is reviving can take less risk by negating the need to traversing a dangerous path to the body.

[trail carbon]

It's literally free information/distraction, and you might get your friend back too

And now it's not free anymore

You have to spend something

[verbal marsh]

if theyre across a road or up in a tower and you cant cover them theyre probably gonna get farmed

[trail carbon]

And it's a worthwhile trade in my opinion

[verbal marsh]

Obviously it is, its a trait, that doesnt make it broken

It has pros and cons compared to hand resing

[trail carbon]

What cons

Besides losing the trait

[hot vigil]

please read what I wrote :)
I said unreachable, but in cover.