feedback-discussion

[flat sandal]

maybe you are just particularly angry now 😛

[patent barn]

I'm talking about peak times though, I can deal with the bad lobbies at 5am... But if I'm playing at 8pm in west Europe time zones, I should have a balanced lobby

[unborn sandal]

All they needed to do was make it more difficult to derank

[flat sandal]

Idk man, I am in EU as well and my matches are just fine

[patent barn]

It will take time and tuning

It's just very rough for low mmr at the moment

[flat sandal]

deranking doesn't change anything on this issue

[unborn sandal]

I’m saying the mmr update should have just been that they make it harder to derank, which was the problem they claimed to be addressing

Instead they threw out both the mmr and matchmaking and we have this

Wildly unfair matchmaking

[flat sandal]

MMR is definetely more stable

which is what a lot of ppl have been asking for

[unborn sandal]

not really honestly

[patent barn]

Im being totally outmatched I'm virtually every game I play at the moment. The only ones that I don't get outmatched in are the ones where the whole server fights at the other boss

[flat sandal]

deranking is invisible for the MM algorithm

[unborn sandal]

I heard a guy deranked from 6 to 3 in less than 90 minutes

[patent barn]

It has been more stable absolutely, but that doesn't mean it is fairer

[flat sandal]

outmatched as in matched with higher mmr?

or is it a feeling?

[patent barn]

Yes and in gameplay mechanics.. the people I'm playing against are simply much much better at the game

[flat sandal]

if you don't mind me asking. what is your kda?

[patent barn]

Like 0.6

[flat sandal]

okay you have to hope for way more players coming in

[patent barn]

Not at all

[flat sandal]

of course, you need more at your skill level

[patent barn]

I had more balanced lobbies pre-fix, so they're in the community

[unborn sandal]

There are plenty of people at that skill level

[patent barn]

It's just been overtuned too far in favour of 5 and 6*

This is what I'm saying, it needs tuning. It's not an instant fix. But if everyone puts up with the terrible situation, it won't change

[flat sandal]

but if you get a lobbie of 2* depens on nothing but if enough are cueing when you do

[unborn sandal]

I have a 1.6 kd mmr of 6 and I’m getting matched with both people like Luke that are 2/3 star with sub 1 k/d and people that have 5+ kd and are ultra sweats in the same lobby

neither of which I should be matching against

[flat sandal]

bro then the game hates you or something

how is it possible that I don't get that at all

you are claiming that MM just jumps over my skill level to search ppl for your match

[patent barn]

Because perhaps there is an issue in the matchmaking system somewhere?

[flat sandal]

while my matches are very fair at 4ish stars

[patent barn]

Perhaps it's seeing people's mmrs differently than they are?

[flat sandal]

you mean a bug?

[unborn sandal]

I was never a 6 star before the change

[patent barn]

Could be

[unborn sandal]

I was one of the people that got shoved into 6 to populate it

It’s not fun

if they made kd have some sway on matchmaking it would be a lot more fair

[patent barn]

There's all sorts of scenarios as to what could be causing it.

[flat sandal]

it's probably a problem with being at the tale end of the distribution

[median zephyr]

it already does, its who you kill and die too

[crystal plume]

KD is way too static to be good as a parameter, it also means that it can be abused more easily due to how slow it changes with time

[unborn dagger]

^

[median zephyr]

^

[unborn sandal]

I’m not saying it’s 100 percent based on your kd

It should have some effect

If I’m 1.6 kd I shouldn’t be getting matched with people that have 5+ kd

[median zephyr]

this is a bad idea, making the system more complex, wont show skill, itll just be more complex

if 1.6kd, is 6 stars, then youre with all the 6 stars, what do you suggest add more stars?

[crystal plume]

So what would stop people that currently have 5k from tanking their KD to have that "effect" be in their favor?

With enough playtime it takes ages for your KD to change even by 0.01

[median zephyr]

i mean they already do this with deranking, itd just be different

[crystal plume]

So if you don't care about stats, you could just tank it and it would basically never go back up

[rotund obsidian]

gonna start seeing 0.1kd 10000death accounts up for sale so people can shit on timmys for months without ever climbing

[unborn sandal]

Y’all don’t have to dogpile me because I have a suggestion. I don’t see anyone else with any suggestions to fix matchmaking and clearly a lot of people are getting sick of it

[flat sandal]

always looks like this for me

[median zephyr]

this idea that kd having more of a part would fix things just doesnt make sense, hunt has too many factors for this

someone with more KD isnt inherrently better, someone whos a higher star then you isnt inherrently better

[patent barn]

See I wouldn't mind a lobby like that... I was 3* most of the time pre rework and I was capable of competing at that mmr, not consistently, but sometimes...

[flat sandal]

yes but how often?

[unborn sandal]

Most games

More often than not

[flat sandal]

wait. but you are a six star

what do you expect?

cueing with a 3 star

[unborn sandal]

Playing duos with a three star and I have 1.6kd

We face three people with 5kd clearly at the top end of 6 star

[median zephyr]

6 stars is the highest mmr plus, youre in the big leagues

are all 6 stars equal? no but they can not be

[unborn sandal]

ok great I’ll just derank. Will that make you happy

[median zephyr]

no deranking is lame

[rotund obsidian]

tbh it seems like the modifiers are just fucked, all teams listed as randoms, yknow? not sure if that's just visual or not but it may result in less fair matches as a duo or as actual randoms

[flat sandal]

now how did these two KING guys manage to end up in a random team?^^

[unborn sandal]

they’re not in a random team

[median zephyr]

but if the options is us agree with your idea, or you go derank, thats what you chose

[unborn sandal]

Crytek also bugged that

[patent barn]

I think they confirmed it as a visual bug but I have been starting to wonder lately ...

[unborn sandal]

Everyone gets the random team modifier

[median zephyr]

yea 100% visual bug

[flat sandal]

they have the modifier, no?

[chrome oyster]

That's the thing though... The stars are effectively your killing performance. Just like KD... But KD is over the long term.

[flat sandal]

why?

[median zephyr]

its a visual bug

[rotund obsidian]

it's broken right now, all teams show up as randoms

[flat sandal]

I see, didnt know that^^

[median zephyr]

yes exactly, but mmr is over long term too, its just not as hard to move

[unborn sandal]

No mmr is short term

Kd is long term

[median zephyr]

shorter term, but if i take a week off, i dont go to 1 star

you have to die to go down

[unborn sandal]

A hybrid of both is the most effective way to accurately balance matchmaking

[flat sandal]

honestly this is proper complicated stuff

[unborn sandal]

The mmmr decay doesn’t do anything

[median zephyr]

in theory yes, but is someone who snipes only, and plays super safe suddenly better then people who play and die?

[flat sandal]

you are trying to find an accurate measure for skill in a game like hunt

[median zephyr]

yes which is why its long term

[unborn sandal]

If I go die 50 times in one day I’m gonna drop two or three stars

In one day

Short term

It’s not long term

[rotund obsidian]

I don't think including your average k/d is in any way a good idea tbh, kd is already sort of the main driver via mmr gain/loss. It seems like they did exactly what a lot of people want, which is to make longtime players go up/down less since the game is more confident in their ranking. It may only be fucked temporarily, but that might be too optimistic.

[median zephyr]

i dont know all the answers, i just know if you think its easy to accurately say someones skill, in a game like hunt, from numbers, you dont know what youre talking about

[rotund obsidian]

KDA can be influenced by a lot of things. Your normal team size, the rankings of your teammates, etc.

[median zephyr]

there is WAY too many factors

[unborn sandal]

Well they need to figure something out or revert it because the old matchmaking system was way more fair

[median zephyr]

people HATED the old matchmaking system as well

[crystal plume]

If you were to theoretically only match people with high KD together that would also just lower all of their KDs eventually so it would also essentially be a short term fix

[rotund obsidian]

I've had a significantly more positive experience since the update tbh

[median zephyr]

^

i actually get full matches now

[unborn sandal]

You just said it would take months or years to affect people at that level of play

[rotund obsidian]

I stayed in five, bulk of my teammates who were 4/5 are now firmly in five, one went up to six

haven't seen a single one of those clan teams since the change

[median zephyr]

i think its in a relatively fine state, like if you expect all people to be the same stars, but are 6 star and play with a 3 star, youll never get this

[crystal plume]

I said ages, I didn't specify months or years. You can easily tank KD down but getting it up takes way more time and effort

[unborn sandal]

Just because you have a positive experience doesn’t mean everyone is. It’s clear that there are tons of people that hate this change

[flat sandal]

it would be interesting to model what would happen. Can't wrap my head around it

[median zephyr]

and there were tons of people who hate the old mmr system, people always dont like it, its hard to balance

[crystal plume]

So more people playing at high level together = More people of high KD dying as there's generally only one team that "wins" the match = People of high KD dropping in KD

[median zephyr]

bc it is impossoble to accurately group people into skills in hunt

[rotund obsidian]

Might also be the fact that you're playing as a significantly wide group of two, I haven't really tried duos into trios since the change

[median zephyr]

i agree to an extent, but some high kd players will be safe, and live without winning

[crystal plume]

I'm by no means saying that the MMR system is perfect, in fact I recognize that it isn't even supposed to be "perfect", but I definitely think that adding KD to be even a factor in it is not a solution to anything long term

[median zephyr]

exactly, itll just be a layer of complexity, that doesnt fix the issue

[crystal plume]

They have stated already that they are making adjustments so I'll personally just wait for those

[median zephyr]

all we need is for lower star players, to be kept out of high star games

if youre 5 getting pulled into 6, youll be ok

but if your teammate is 6 and youre 1, sorry but thats just how the cookie crumbles

[median zephyr]

#game-ideas message @broken briar we have an fov slider, its right in settings under game

[crystal plume]

They're on console

Can't remember if they mentioned FOV slider for console being part of the upcoming update though

[broken briar]

yeah i mean on console

[median zephyr]

ahhh my apologies!

id def put that in the suggestions ideas post though, up to you

i cant believe theres no fov slider on console, i havent seen any announcement for it, but ill hope for you

[broken briar]

yeah, I think a lot of people on console are drawn away from the game because they are used to games like COD that have an fov slider

[median zephyr]

i feel like an FOV slider is basic settings, like the lowered crosshair is getting fixed for new players, so hopefully the console settings get some more love

esp bc it seems theyre focusing on conosle experience, which they very much deserve

[broken briar]

There are quite a few things on console that need fixed lol, like ever since the most recent MMR update, its very hard to find random duos and trios, it can take sometimes 20 mins to find a match, and when you finally load in there will be maybe 1 or 2 other players

[median zephyr]

ok that sounds ATROCIOUS

[broken briar]

its not fun

[median zephyr]

i dont play on console, but there was a logn time, where even at 5pm, id be getting empty, or one or two other team matches

for me, i had to play on trios, but its never fun to be forced to play a mode you dont want in order to get matches

its genuinely one of the worst things, id almost rather old desynch then not being able to play basically

[broken briar]

Yeah it makes the game very boring

not to mention all the little bugs on console

I cant even reshuffle my black market offers anymore

[median zephyr]

thats not good, but its leaving in 14 more days, so at least its not gamebreaking like getting no people in matches

but yea console is... rough, my condolences

[broken briar]

Yeah, although im not even sure crytek knows about the matchmaking bug because I havent seen anybody talk about it

[median zephyr]

i wouldnt know, but they have been trying to help console out as of late, so my hope is aug 15th maybe the QOL for them will be fixed

[broken briar]

I hope

[median zephyr]

me too, everyone deserves to be able to play

#game-ideas message i do not like this, this would be used midfight, which i do not want, as the people who downed you deserve that benefit, restoring bars should be a basegame mechanic tied to pvp, that cant be done midfight

something akin to "get 2 unique hunter loots, then go to a supply point, or some other location, and after a long channel, you get a restoration

[chrome oyster]

part of me wonders if it's a display issue

like they're doing something sane on the "back end", it just looks bad on the front end

my matches really haven't felt unfair, but I've seen some WILD MMR divergence

[median zephyr]

i hope this is the case, and i agree, my matches havent felt more unfair then they were before, but they have felt more full

which is a good thing

[chrome oyster]

I'm optimistic that when the engine update drops hunt in general becomes much more stable

as a developer ... I know the pain of working with the "legacy code base" and then the "one where you've rewritten/fixed a bunch of stuff" and trying to sync up features between them

[median zephyr]

i really hope so too, im very worried, because so much is so new, but once the growing pains are done i hope this is the case, bc hunt is the best most responsive shooter ive ever played imo

i know they said how much easier it is too add new things, like bosses and such, so hopefully its easier to make, and we get more content and fixes

[chrome oyster]

from all the videos and things I've seen ... it really sounds like they've been trying to get the game to the point they can just track the latest CryEngine releases (without nearly as much effort), have cleaned things up, have a new UI system that isn't as hard to work with, and hopefully can add content without fighting old hacks

in any case 🤞 (but it seems like the right people are working on the game)

[median zephyr]

100% i have faith, all the recent dev videos has made me feel like were in good hands, if anyone can do it its them

main thing i worry about is growing pains of the switch to the new engine, and how bullet drop will be implimente

d

but over time, im hoping itll all be great

[unborn dagger]

I thought that was intentional since it's going away soon

[broken briar]

I didnt know it was going away soon, but it probably is intentional

[median zephyr]

Yea its leaving August 15th, whole new hunt

[unborn dagger]

@thin remnant We already have three traits that are dedicated to saving your chunks along with Rotjaw being a less tanky boss and a quicker banish. We don't need more ways to gain them back and having death be less and less punishing. I have suggested this before and that is making Rotjaw have a guaranteed drop of a burn trait since rarely anyone goes after it anymore. That way Rotjaw has its own unique reward and gives more incentive to fighting it.

[thin remnant]

What traits?

also thanks for @ ing me <3

[empty oasis]

Remedy, rampage, and relentless

[unborn dagger]

Relentless and Remedy. Relentless has you not lose a chunk while downed and Remedy gives you the ability to trigger a restoration similar to a banishment if you dark sight a trait. Rampage isn't like its old version which is why I kept it out, but it's still another way to stay in the fight as you get damaged

[thin remnant]

While I see your point, none of these are reliable.

You can have a match where there is no rotjaw, there is no relentless, there is no remedy, and there is no queen of england

but this feedback has made me a little less sure about my suggestion, thank you for the constructive criticism

[empty oasis]

Whats different? I dont remember a change

[thin remnant]

HELL YEAH

I KILLED THE MOSQUITO

[unborn dagger]

Iirc they changed rampage to where it doesnt recover burn chunks anymore(And judging by its description). I could be wrong because I havent had it a long time

[thin remnant]

[unborn dagger]

Nice lol

[empty oasis]

Ah ok. I'm pretty sure that it still recovers burnt chunks as it lists it as a Restoration in the description

[unborn sandal]

The solution is not more ways to get bars back. It’s less ways to one shot people missing a single bar and fewer burn options

[thin remnant]

I agree with this tbh, but I've suggested this kind of thing before and it gets disliked too xd

flares and fusees should not burn imo, and not as many weapons that can one shot 125 now should be able to

[unborn sandal]

Everyone likes buffs and no one likes nerfs

Don’t let downvotes discourage you

[thin remnant]

that's how you get powercreep sadly :(

[unborn sandal]

yep

[thin remnant]

I mean, this can be true, but you also shouldn't ignore them.

Like my suggestion I've just made got downvoted and I was given constructive feedback, don't wanna ignore that

but i too would rather nerf 125 damage and remove body burning from a lot of things [flares and fusees]

[unborn sandal]

Well constructive feedback is good but most people that downvote have no reason why other than “I don’t like it”

[unborn dagger]

Yeah if the long ammo was nerfed below 125 and fusees and flares had their body burning abilities removed it would be waaay better

[thin remnant]

oh damn didnt expect you to support that nice

[unborn sandal]

I’d be fine with the sparks, martini, and Springfield being kept where they are. Everything else somewhere below the 125 line

[thin remnant]

I wouldn't mind if they reworked damage dropoff entirely tbh

so that certain weapons like berthier could one shot to the chest at, say, 5m

but that would probably make for inconsistency

so probably not

overall i agree with your statement

[thin remnant]

WAIT, EVERYTHING ELSE BELOW 125?

WHAT ABOUT SHOTGUNS? CROSSBOW? BOW?

[unborn sandal]

-_-

rifles

[flat sandal]

#game-ideas message @queen zinc I think that would be cool. What they seem to tend to do though is making the matches shorter so ppl cue more often. not sure if that is true, just a sneaky suspicion. It would probably make matches longer if the ai was scary. Totally agree that ai should be more of a consideration in match.

not sure but if fences wouldn't be an obstacle it may well even help server performance

btw, did it look like a new mob in the event trailer?

[hot vigil]

@inner wagon You are suggesting a gun from 1917....
That said, think you meant the M1896 Kavallerie Karabiner! :V

[dusky tapir]

it would still be a terrible idea balance wise, as it's essentially a higher damage and even lower sway dolch precision

the dolch precision is already a huge problem

[hot vigil]

For sure

it would be awful

Also been thinking, would it even matter if Dolch had 6 shots internally instead of 10 shots.
Bc there did exist an "compact" variant of the gun that only held 6 shots.

[abstract burrow]

thats why we need quickswap back

[plain yarrow]

I feel like the bullet drop addition is going to be one of those things that sounds good on paper but in a few weeks Crytek is going to say “Yeah that was a bad idea to add that” I strongly believe that change alone is going to effect the hunt population.

[next yarrow]

I don't want quickswap back writ large, but I would support a quickdraw variant for the Pax.

They also need to address the inconsistent weapon swap speed in general. In no world should a dolch be faster to pull out than the new army and Scottfield

[thin remnant]

The old weapons swap slower, it sucks, I'm 99% sure it's a bug

Like weapons that were in early versions of the game like scottfield swap way slower

Hope they fix

[next yarrow]

Mostly with pistols, but it's also noticable with the mako

[thin remnant]

Bro why do people keep recommending mechanics to directly punish "camping" in the most wack, nonsensical ways ;-;

Like if you stand still in a spot for too long, you'll magically go bye bye

[spice topaz]

I haven't checked any data on the swapping speed but the scottfield is one of the newest handguns in the game so is that where the line between the old and new / slow and quick is drawn?

[thin remnant]

Scottfield is one of the newest guns? You sure you're not mixing that up?

Scotty has been around for the vast majority of the games lifetime

When do you think it was added

[spice topaz]

From the back of my head only the sparks pistol and new army are newer if not counting for variants

[thin remnant]

When was the last time you played XD

[spice topaz]

Last weekend 😛

[thin remnant]

Drilling

[spice topaz]

How is Drilling a handgun?

[thin remnant]

Ohh you mean handguns

Imma do a google hold up

Also lemat

Lemat is newer than Scotty I'm 99% sure

[spice topaz]

LeMat is old as age if not counting for variants and those are not handguns/one handed

[thin remnant]

It may be some weapons got an overhaul and got the new swap speed, but some like scottfield didn't get that yet

[spice topaz]

But yeah I was thinking the speed is only dependant on the handgun but what you mean is that also the other gun affects it?

[thin remnant]

Ah ok scottfield was 3-4 years ago

I just underestimate how little crytek adds handguns

[spice topaz]

Understandable 😅

[thin remnant]

Wait maybe I have it backwards xd

Maybe the newer ones have slower swap speed

Idk I just heard this stuff on a video and am relaying it, it was one of the popular ones

Rachtaz or psychoghost or smth

[spice topaz]

In any case it seems to be black magic and would certainly be better if consistent. To be honest I left that playstyle behind me after the change (if not counting for single shot primaries) and the game is better without it. Not counting for dualies and semi autos.

[next yarrow]

This is correct. LeMat has been in the game for the same time, so it (and the Haymaker) have normal swap speed

It seems to effect weapon trees more than individual weapons

[thin remnant]

Hm

Is this only pistols

[next yarrow]

Mako has a really slow stow speed

Krag is a little slower than mosin but pretty normal. (And it matters less due to fire rate.)

I don't remember if marathon and such are affected

[silent tartan]

Someone did test for this stuff

https://youtu.be/3Jig6RHXeL4?si=CAqupGGDuhge7FlQ

Check the comments for the Docs sheet

[thin remnant]

No way this is one of the exact videos I watched xd, thought it was pretty underrated

Yeah that's a great video and sums it up perfectly, well worth the watch for any lurkers

[median zephyr]

this is exactly the thing, you do not always have these traits, imo meathead banishing can be done midfight, and would be way too easy, but we def need more restoration

[median zephyr]

its the opposite actually, scottfield is much newer compared to the conversion/ nagant family, which have some of the fastest swap speeds

[hot vigil]

On the contary, think it will rise

bc that is how it usually go

[queen zinc]

No

Players should be punished for dying.

The game is already been made too forgiving

[crystal plume]

The thing is it's not limited to being just punished for dying

Fire damage can be brutal

Especially DB

And even only considering downs I don't think the punishment aspect should matter as much for fights after the fight you lost bars in is over

I care about downing someone in the middle of a fight while I am still alive, it doesn't matter anymore if I lost and they won so they can get their bars back for all I care

[median zephyr]

they are already punished for dying, why should they have to extract bc they beat a team early, but got downed once? the team that wasnt in that fight, that never met them, doesnt deserve this benefit, it only leads to more boring empty fights over the bounty

[median zephyr]

yes exactly, people like to think HA you may have beat me, but i got your bars, enjoy fighting the mosin 10 minutes from now

people benefitting from downs when theyre in the fight is fine, thats why i specifically dont want it to be too easy, or able to be done midfight, but if you get downed, but still win early, its unsatisfying for everyone to have to leave, or get downed to a body shot way later

[flat sandal]

the last event was cool in that regard. it was the one with all the stocking- and healing up, right? Just the fact that there was an different thing to do was nice. Even if it just was to freshen up for the next engagement^^

personally I even liked the red skull revive faction

[median zephyr]

i didnt mind it in theory, and its not that people got bars back, the two things i didnt like was, it could be done midfight, and it was campable, bc it was in one spot

and lawful pact removed burning, which is in the game for a reason, one of the worst event traits in history imo

[flat sandal]

it cost resoures though

in a way it's not much different from using a med kit to heal

[median zephyr]

doesnt matter, with everyone being able to get all bars back, youd just go there after resing

[flat sandal]

it's another layer which is good in my books

[median zephyr]

well no, getting bars back is WAY better then restoring empty chunks

[flat sandal]

yes of course but it just widens the battle of attrition

makes fights more complex

[median zephyr]

not more complex

[flat sandal]

what? less?

[median zephyr]

it allows burning to be ignored, so you go run away, and come back, either the team sits on your teammates body for the WHOLE game, or you get em up

[flat sandal]

you mean the redskull thing?

[median zephyr]

this is terrible, this is why burning was added, to force an end or force a teammate to stay dead

yes

[flat sandal]

I liked it but I wouldnt want it back the way it was

most ppl didnt like it

[median zephyr]

bc it was atrocious

if they wanted to remove burning, they wouldve, but its there for good reason

[flat sandal]

I think it was because ppl are obsessed with wiping a team

once you forget about that, it's fine^^

[remote ore]

I'm glad necro is getting a nerf

[flat sandal]

tbh I almost never use it

[median zephyr]

yes... of course they are, people being unkillable is bad

you kill a person, burning is there to finish them off

youre not meant to just get up over and over

[median zephyr]

same, esp on solos it leads to just sitting on bodies and using so many resources

[flat sandal]

idk, I think it's nice that hunt goes different ways but the whole entire mechanic around dying is a bit "special"

for solos necro will be a buff

but it costs points every time you use it so idk. it might become a bit irrelevant or solos run around farming meatheads a lot^^

[median zephyr]

being able to run away and hide to pick your teammate up later is a god aweful mechanic

and its a buff and nerf, its good for the health of the game so idc either way

[flat sandal]

okay yeah

I got that^^

[median zephyr]

and i doubt itll be irrelevant, plus in theory you save on buying resilience, and if youre living that much bc of it its worth the 4 points

[flat sandal]

yeah the deranking thing is the biggest win there

sure you have to maintain that though

at some point you dont get any more upgrade points

there are so many factors at play with that one change, it is hard to know how it will play out

a lot of solos will just wait it out for ages

then leave

[median zephyr]

yes, but if you didnt buy necro, you wouldve died instead of spending the 4

so even if you get 0 other traits, it was still worth it

bc being dead is worse then 0 upgrade points

[flat sandal]

yes, still you have to maintain it and that might be hard, might be easy

at some point the only option are meatheads

[stoic fjord]

People on Discord said that you would still get your Twitch drop rewards when asking customer support. That just isn't true.

[flat sandal]

actually if you just leave after necroing. chances are you can't afford another round or you have to sell something. It might just wear you down. think it might be hard to maintain

[flat sandal]

Yes that was a misunderstanding floating around

[median zephyr]

if you are getting to lvl 50, youre doing just fine, even buying the best traits you often have a tons of points left over at that point

[median zephyr]

i mean depends what you did, if you died, doing nothing, they leave and you extract sure, but youd have full bars, so you are more then able to still fight

[flat sandal]

can't chicken out after death though^^

it'll be interesting to see for sure

in general I still think it a super weird mechanic

[median zephyr]

for sure, they said they reduced the time, and youll get up with full bars, so def will help you get up, idk how much, and stops easier deranking, and solos just getting up to waste time, just good for the game

it will be weird, but once theyre up and you kill them once you dont need to burn, so itll be nice for non solos too

[flat sandal]

yeah always assuming you can get over the fact that a player simply stands up again

[median zephyr]

this is just necro in a nutshell, sure its weird but itll be much better now, bc if youre playing duos, and you down someone again, you know they cant get up without someone actually on them, bc its either 1. theyre a solo, so theyre gone. or 2. a duo and their partner just used their 1 necro.

sure a teammate can find a trait charm, but if you know theyre close the whole time youd hear it

[flat sandal]

yeah true, it's just that, whenever I think about the system in hunt, I just think it's super weird and we seem stuck with it

other games have better systems

[median zephyr]

what system are we talking about? solo necro? or necro in general?

[flat sandal]

everything with dying a reviving

including burning

[median zephyr]

what games do you think do it better?

[flat sandal]

I think a downed state would be a good start

[median zephyr]

like crawling around? bc right now the "downed" is when youre on the floor

[flat sandal]

perhaps a place you can go to to revive everyone as a necro substitute

yes crawling

[median zephyr]

wym a place to go revive everyone?

and id dislike crawling in hunt, i dont think we need to make getting downed less bad in the short term

[flat sandal]

like, you are in a fight and kill two. now you know the third one is probably going to try to go to that place

you'd be full dead if you get hit again

but you could have items to heal yourself up or let teammates get you

[median zephyr]

thats what burning is for, youre not meant to go run away, you either fight, or leave and accept theyre gone

and i dont think this idea would be good, itd be way too easy to hit someone again to make them fully dead

[flat sandal]

yes but it all seem to address issues in a weird way

we got so used to burning but it's kinda weird

it's all to make the game faster

[median zephyr]

yes, and force an end to fights, while not being instant or uncounterable

bc if they wanted no resing, theyd just make it so once you die you go to menu like tarkov, so this allows for counterplay, while still forcing some sort of end

[flat sandal]

personally I just dislike it. usually it forces me to do stupid shit

and now burn speed will be increased even

and choke reduced^^

[median zephyr]

well yes thats kinda the point, the other team got the down, so now they have the advantage, you gotta fight to save your friend, or accept that theyre gone, im not saying its perfect, but it does everything it sets out to do, which is good for the game

[flat sandal]

yeah if it was an actual achievement most of the time to get a down

usually it just happens really^^

[median zephyr]

so youre suggesting it should be harder to kill people?

[flat sandal]

well, I did suggest before to reduce the frequency of sudden death

but rn I'm more saying that I'm not totally onboard with the "the team who get a kill needs to be rewarded more" argument

and what everything set out to do is forcing and end

in a couple of years we all just press shift W and shout untill it's over 😄

and we'll a have a flame aura that sets everything on fire instantly

actually thinking about it. the system rn is a bit tixic

[median zephyr]

what sudden deaths are you talking about? bc headshots killing rn is a very good thing in this game

[flat sandal]

lot of potential for ppl to be a'holes or for ppl to be upset^^

[median zephyr]

in what way?

[hot vigil]

Hunt needs burning.
That said, next patch is gonna be vile in regards of burning.

[flat sandal]

just whatever reduces it. headshots are too easy as the hitbox is quite large

[flat sandal]

why?

[median zephyr]

i disagree that headhsots are easy, do you want like, super small headshots?

[median zephyr]

it def does need burning

so you cant sit and do nothing to res your friend later, like peacekeeper

[flat sandal]

how is hunt the only game that "needs" burning?

[median zephyr]

it causes stalemates

[hot vigil]

Increased burn rates, dying for teams now means you lose two bars.

[median zephyr]

no many games need a way to force a fight, we just have a different mechanic instead of "finishing" an opponent

[flat sandal]

I mean why does hunt need it?

[median zephyr]

if your teammates are on top of it they can still choke you, just gotta play more as a team

[hot vigil]

The open endedness of Hunt creates unique stalemates where you can simply choose not to play and it would be the winning move.

[median zephyr]

^ like with old peacekeeper

[hot vigil]

Even a fast team gets a 10 second reaction time.

[flat sandal]

but there are other options

[hot vigil]

Such as?

[flat sandal]

downed state

or just something else

[median zephyr]

no way, if youre within range, you can even choke right away, 10 seconds is LONG, you wont lose another bar in even 7 seconds

[hot vigil]

Downed states would suck in Hunt either it would be impossible for downed people to crawl away or the killing team is gonna struggle so hard to kill a downed player.

[median zephyr]

what is not working with burning that a downed state would fix?

[hot vigil]

Again, that is very little margine for error

[flat sandal]

I'd be down for downed state, crawling, full dead and revive at some ritual site

[hot vigil]

Wouldn't people just kill you?

[median zephyr]

full dead revive is a TERRIBLE idea

[flat sandal]

in most cases yes

[median zephyr]

not really, 10 seconds after a burn starts, not right when downed, 10 seconds is a long time to just realize something

i think what you want is this game to become like apex legends, which would be aweful for hunt, burning is a much better mechanic in this game

[hot vigil]

Sure, but you need to take distance and pathing into account and you know, the fact there is an enemy team.
Choke alone have a 4s fuse

[median zephyr]

yes if youre split up, obv if youre split from your team its a lot harder, but at that point you cant be sad if you lost an extra bar, gotta play nearby enough to at least choke

[flat sandal]

just something along these lines. just something different. I'm sure something better is out there. Not saying as it is, it is super bad but it actually is inducing negative things. Ppl be mad a lot surrounding that machanic

[hot vigil]

Think you underestimate it.
Like smart team spread out somewhat.
But it is okay, my go-to Hunt group is gonna run toxic burn on release to spread awareness

[hot vigil]

Honestly just don't see what crawling would change other that making team gameplay suck more.
Getting downed and then excecuted takes like 5 seconds, at least with burning you have chance to come back into the game.

[flat sandal]

isn't this getting pretty restrictive at that point?

[median zephyr]

people would be mad getting shot when downed too, everything makes people in hunt mad, even just getting headshot by a springfield

[flat sandal]

it's jsut a brainstorm idea. I know it's flawed

[median zephyr]

then you suffer the conciquence of your teammate losing a bar, theyre still revivable

[hot vigil]

Fair fair, think burning is really good, especially with the format

[flat sandal]

what makes ppl mad is teammates not coming for help

[hot vigil]

Again, you gonna see people lose 2-3 bars per down now.

[flat sandal]

while they always prioritise it 😄

[median zephyr]

no, theres pros and cons to everything you do, even burnign doesnt FORCE you to fight, you either fight, or let your teammate burn out

[flat sandal]

toxic^^

[median zephyr]

i disagree, if you cant get to your teammate and choke, within almost 30 seconds, you were too far

[median zephyr]

yes, but its a team based game, no system helps with this, gotta get better teammates

[hot vigil]

...
You never play anything than shotguns?

Not bc there is anything wrong

with that

but like

[flat sandal]

there has got to be something better then looking at your bars burn down wile this ******* ******* is not doing *********

[hot vigil]

people do things such as fanning out and whatnot

[median zephyr]

no i play everything besides sniping actually

i NEVER have an issue putting out my teammates, unless were split up, which is on us

i bring chokes every match, not even choke beetles, or choke bolts

[hot vigil]

I bring chokes too, but like, you just end in situation where you cannot choke right away

[median zephyr]

maybe, but the system we have in place now gets the job done

if theyre fully on your teammates body and pushing you, youll be dead or theyll be dead quick, this change wont really change what would happen anyway, sure sometimes you split up, which is a misplay, but then you suffer the consiquences

[flat sandal]

why do you not get stalemates before someone dies?

[median zephyr]

you do, but adding more stalemates doesnt fix that

[flat sandal]

do you though? I feel like ppl fight

[median zephyr]

these are 2 seprate issues, id like all stalemates to be as minimized as possible

i wish they did

if youve ever seen a concertina camper, you know this isnt the case

either way, removing burning would be TERRIBLE for the game, its a base mechanic for a reason

[flat sandal]

not convinced

[median zephyr]

to stop people from just running away so you have to sit on the body

thats ok, we will never agree and thats how it is

[flat sandal]

part of the reason though is that what's being ignored is the issue that the devs have to speed up the games not just for fun reasons but to make it run better in different ways, like cue times and match making

can't have matches drag on for those reasons on well

it's weird. because it's being ignored I feel like I have to feel shame if the game has a few campy minutes^^ it's actually a fun part imo

some clever tools may help as well. it's crazy what a chaos bomb can do sometimes

[median zephyr]

the devs added burning for fun reasons, to stop stalemates, they did not do it for que times

[flat sandal]

how do you know that?

[median zephyr]

and chaos bombs are underrated, just like decoy fuses, but this doesnt really help with stalmates

bc they have stated so, multiple times

where as your point, they have never said

[flat sandal]

because the other thing touches a topic that devs in general don't talk about or acknowledge

[median zephyr]

of course they talk about and acknowlege it, we have had multiple dev videos on stars, fair matches, and que times

[flat sandal]

I think cause they are self concious about player numbers 😄

[median zephyr]

i disagree

[flat sandal]

that's more companies. not devs

[median zephyr]

they are literally the lead designers and devs lol

[flat sandal]

gas lighting is just normal these days

[median zephyr]

if youre saying they need to talk about it unofficially, i see absolutely no difference

[flat sandal]

what do you mean?

anyway, basically I'm pretty sure they want matches to be shorter

[median zephyr]

you said devs dont talk about or acknowledge fair matches, que times, etc, and i said that the hunt devs literally have videos on this

well depends whats happening, if its artificial inflation, like a stalemate yes, but they dont mind long matches, otherwise theyd shorten the timer

[flat sandal]

No I mean often other reasons for a change is emphasised, something players relate to, while on their end it could have other reasons too

like increasing the amount of times ppl start to cue

[median zephyr]

i disagree that theyre just implimenting stuff as a trick, as their logic still makes sense

[flat sandal]

that doesn't sound too sexy though

I didnt say that

[median zephyr]

if your main point is "burning is unneccesary and they only added it to help queue times" i feel this is unfounded and incorrect

[flat sandal]

but if you accidently made a game that drags out for 2h per match you have a problem

now what do you tell your player base that is having a blast?

[median zephyr]

yes, thatd be dragging out for stalemates in this case, nothing in hunt takes 2 hours if people are doing anything productive

[flat sandal]

okay, I guess it's my fault for not being clear

it's not really easy to explain rn

it was a hypothetical to illustrate a point

[median zephyr]

no i mean i got your hypothetical, i just dont think it applies here

[flat sandal]

never once did I encounter a situation where I thought "oh no, a stalemate" 😄

[median zephyr]

bc they have stated why they have burning and the logic adds up, theres no secret other reason to cover for

i have had many, and im sure most players have

[hot vigil]

Coming from pre-burn days, burn is good

[flat sandal]

there are always more factors

[median zephyr]

^^^^^ this so much

[flat sandal]

omg

what was it like then?

[hot vigil]

You kill one guy and then... nothing

bc you could just run away

lmao

[median zephyr]

it was peacekeeper with less steps

this is exactly why it was added

[flat sandal]

yeah I can see that. It's a solution, just not a very healthy one

perhaps you should just fade away or something

[median zephyr]

its perfectly healthy imo, and youd rather, nobody need to use resources and have no way to stop it? i dont get what this change would do

[flat sandal]

yeah, I don't have a good solution either. What do ppl mean when they say stalemate then actually?

the timer could be quite long but not long enough that ppl can just run away and wait till everything is over

and I think it would actually be better not to spend resources on a mechanic that come from the nature of the game

[median zephyr]

stalemates are generally when theres no way to do anything but die, or leave, like a boss lair that is fully plugged by concertina wire, a body that you cant get rid of where the other person runs away with peacekeeper, stuff of this nature

[flat sandal]

cause you really do pretty much have to spend two slots on it

I always understoof stalemates as a situation where nobody dares to move

[median zephyr]

this too, as long as its warranted, like "hey the extracts are through the open field and there snipers, i have a shotgun esque

and i dont think we need burning to be automatic

its good they use resources to do it, it seemed like you hated burning earlier but now you want it to be automatic and free?

[flat sandal]

and long and not burn bars

to fix the issue you described pre burn

[median zephyr]

if it doesnt burn bars what does it do?

[flat sandal]

make you full dead after a while

[median zephyr]

and what do you propose for the length? bc this can all be changed with normal burning, not a whole new system

[flat sandal]

idk how long does burning take currently? see, I just don't understand why they make it faster now

what does that fix?

[median zephyr]

depends how many bars you have, for most players itll take 2 minutes and 5 seconds (for 125hp)

obv salveskin, relentless, banishes, etc elongate this

and it fixes mostly sitting on a solo forever, or someone who only chokes but doesnt do anything about it, to stop the stalemate

or at least HELPS

[flat sandal]

I really don't know but if someone is down and I knew I had about 2-3 minutes, it would probably not feel too bad

well solos came much later 😄

[median zephyr]

well good news, if you throw one choke bomb, currently, and post patch, you will have over 3 minutes

yes but theyre in the game the game needs to work with whats in it

[flat sandal]

I mean the self revive

[median zephyr]

yes, my point still stands

gotta balance around whats in the game, not what wasnt at the start

[flat sandal]

well self revive is one of the things that are really weird around the entire sytem

if you really have to have it there would be ways to indicate that it is happening

or whatever else. honestly everything around self revive was just embarrassing really

[median zephyr]

self res doesnt need to be nerfed in this way, if youre having trouble with people getting up you need to watch bodies more

[flat sandal]

oh great^^

my favourite thing

[median zephyr]

well next patch you just need to kill the res once, and the burn will be faster, so it helps this

[flat sandal]

pls dont try to defend what we had to go through^^

[median zephyr]

i have no idea what youre talking about

[flat sandal]

the body watching thing

and ppl hoping to farm some kills to three ppl in random team stand there. then the guy gets up...

anyway

[median zephyr]

sooo the 3 people cant watch one body?

[flat sandal]

I mean gets up and turned into a sieve

[median zephyr]

i dont get what the issue is with this, its not hard to kill a res once youre on it, and even farther depending on what you have

whats a sieve?

[flat sandal]

like 5 times^^

[median zephyr]

youre complaining that solos can res repeatedly in your face to elongate getting them out of the match? bc yes i agree

[flat sandal]

a thing with lot of holes

[median zephyr]

thats why the necro and burning changes next patch will be good for this

[flat sandal]

with the side effect that ppl in teams have to freak out even more when their buddy dies

I actually kinda like the idea of ppl full dying after a while

just get rid of all the bs

[median zephyr]

i dont think people need to freak, we as a community need to get better at being good

and i dont, to burn you need to use a resource and get close, and it can be countered with choke, yours has some upsides, but also some downsides

[flat sandal]

what matter in the end are the numbers

[median zephyr]

i dont think your fix fixes the situation, and just makes sitting on the body longer, not to mention necroing to double the time

[flat sandal]

like how often certain events actually happen

[median zephyr]

forcing a fight by buring, is the majority of time

[flat sandal]

apart from solos you usually dont really have to sit on a body

[median zephyr]

i disagree, most bodies i have to sit on, at least until they come back to choke

bc good players will just run away and kite, hold angles and keep running back

[queen jungle]

How does MMR system work? @rich halo this is for you. I'll just put the text file as a whole.

[flat sandal]

but isnt that the point? you "sit on it" to force them to move?

[median zephyr]

well they only move and choke BECAUSE of the burn

thats why burning is good

[flat sandal]

because of the time limit

[median zephyr]

yes exactly

[flat sandal]

but I also dont actually think so. ppl do fight. I agree that you cant just have people walk away and come back later

[median zephyr]

some people fight

but burning is there for the ones who dont

[flat sandal]

poor lads

that is where making the games shorter comes in because in a game like hunt especially I don't think you should put the pedal to the metal like that

once someone dies and burns, it's going down hill

[median zephyr]

i do, burning is meant to force an end, yes its going downhill, thats kinda the point you got downed and gotta clutch it or leave and regroup

[flat sandal]

to end it. I agree with the part why something like burning was needed but not all the forcing and accelerating part.

just because I have to go 😄

[median zephyr]

by defenition ending it is excellerating

im not saying the speed up is good or bad, ill have to test, but removing burning entirely is bad

[flat sandal]

even if you have a substitute that would allow you not to take a burn and cholk item every single match?

imnagine the possibilities

[median zephyr]

i like that people need to bring things for this, not being able to bring everything is a part of hunt

its like "why cant i just get a trait to carry 2 large slots" or things of the sort, you have to take these things to get a benefit, not have everything you want

[flat sandal]

I want more tools and more possibilieties there

[median zephyr]

i do not at all

youre by no means forced to take burning tools, but you wont get the benefit

[flat sandal]

I mean more tools to choose from

[median zephyr]

and not taking chokes WILL suck if you get a teammate down

oh that would be nice

[flat sandal]

so usually it, melee, burn, cholk and medkit

[median zephyr]

yep, you can sometimes drop the melee, or choke if you play solo, but every respectable loadout has a medkit

the burn can be dropped too, really all but medkit

[flat sandal]

I was so happy with the change to bayonets and stuff as it freed up a slot for some loadouts

[median zephyr]

the bayonets were good before, but it def made them better

[flat sandal]

the stamina killed it for me

[median zephyr]

but i dont want loadouts to be fully free, we can only take 4 things for a reason

[flat sandal]

and worse handling was a bad taste

[median zephyr]

which buff are you talking about? bc the most recent one didnt buff stamina

just the handling

[flat sandal]

it made it faster but did it not also reduce stamina consumption?

[median zephyr]

no

and faster for like talon, not bayonets

so if you like bayonets now, youd have liked bayonets before too, just never gave them a shot

[flat sandal]

Melee attachment Weapon variant changes: 
Reduced Stamina consumption across all melee attachment Weapon variants.
Removed sway penalty on Bayonet and Riposte variants.
Improved melee hit detection on various melee attachments.
Reduced wind-up time for Talon and Trauma variants and improved melee attack queueing.
Reduced Brawler melee preparation duration.

[median zephyr]

it may have been a consistancy thing? i believe it didnt change much with amount of swings you get on bayonets

[flat sandal]

think it's 4 now which is the same as a knife

[queen jungle]

Balancing the snowball effect is one of the most difficult parameters to consider.

[median zephyr]

i dont remember what it was before but i can tell you what it is now

[flat sandal]

what do you mean by that?

by balancing it, that is?

I feel like, being one player down is already pretty punishing

[queen jungle]

The snowball effect, or the going downhill, naturally accelerates the game. But as we know, a trend is not linear but exponential.

It's difficult to shorten a game relative to the current condition because said condition could be 1000s of possibilities.

[flat sandal]

Maybe it's a me problem but I think, "oh no, the poor guy is loosing chunks, quick!!!"

[queen jungle]

Precisely. The human factor in deciding when/how to accelerate the game is much easier to account for than programatically.

Take the game LoL (ugh). I hope you never had the dismay of playing it...

One team getting just a little edge almost makes it impossible for Team B to come back because that's how they designed the game: decision based.

If they tried to equalize Team A strength against Team B strength, there'd be no meaning to Team A's objectively larger strength

[median zephyr]

youd be correct! i must have forgotten this change, which is nice

[flat sandal]

thing is there is no reason not to take it if you wanna run iron sights. I don't have any skins for them. Well played crytek 😄

[median zephyr]

yea for sure, like oh no slightly more hunt dollars, and some come with slight obstructions to the sight, but theyre very useful esp for bosses

[flat sandal]

but where is hunt in this? do you think we need more pressure on a team that is down a player or not?

[median zephyr]

theyre saying its hard to balance how much pressure

bc no pressure is no burning

[flat sandal]

higher burn speed will make that happen

[median zephyr]

which is bad

idk if the faster burn will be good for all situations, they never said how fast, need to play with it

but i do not want burning nerfed at least in the short term

[flat sandal]

cholk will be half

[median zephyr]

yes, but thats a good bit of time that they cant burn your friend

[flat sandal]

really, I think it's up to the team who is at an advantage to push the advantage if they have a good position

with voice all of this will change actually

[median zephyr]

depends on whats happening, thats what makes it hard is there is so many factors

[queen jungle]

As contrary as it sounds, focusing on Hunt itself for a general premise is not a feasible argument. The premise is the snowball effect, which varies by game. I couldn't tell you the right answer because; a) I don't have one. b) When I do play, I'm solo.

If I had to guess, there needs to be more ground to cover and traverse to allow mroe time for downed teams

[flat sandal]

are you talking designer school philosophy?

[queen jungle]

I'm a solutions architect. Referencing a particular product in a general discussion is anecdotal.

[median zephyr]

this is true, but i think the issue isnt time, its people dont use the time, we have a choke bomb for 2 minutes now, and the times i see a team choke their partner and do nothing, is way too much

[flat sandal]

what's the general discussion?

[median zephyr]

people need to learn to USE the time, not just only panic when burn is going

[queen jungle]

Great point. That's the other side of the argument that, validly, destroys the snowball effect. The human decision.

[queen jungle]

Snowball effect

[median zephyr]

i also dont see enough people prechoke, they wait until their teammate is already burning, which puts them on the backfoot

[flat sandal]

sorry I don't get what point you are making yet 😄

[median zephyr]

where if they prechoke, they can start rotating, poking, resupplying, etc

[median zephyr]

just saying burning is a type of snowball effect, and it varies by game on how good or bad it should be

[flat sandal]

but we are talking about hunt here 😄

[median zephyr]

yes, theyre saying theyre unsure how good it should be, bc its not the same for every game

im unsure exactly how good it should be too, but i know removing burning is bad

[flat sandal]

okay but if we want to be precise. bad why? because of the pre burn situation with ppl having no reason to fight?

or game speed?

[queen jungle]

I am "him," if it puts you at ease. ("they're")

A team just used this tactic on me an hour ago and I had to rotate around (im a sniper). Because they were recovering, the boss team was able to push in and capitalize on their weakness, quickly turning the game from 12 people to 5 in the wake of their onslaught. Snowball

[median zephyr]

yes, stopping running away from the body, and stopping stalemates

[flat sandal]

or wasting tool slots 😄

[median zephyr]

my apologies, just didnt know your pronouns thats all! and thats good! im impressed, i almost never see people prechoke

[flat sandal]

but you really want there to be fire and tool slots and proximity involved?

[median zephyr]

yes! all good things, your tool slots give you a benefit

as does their choke bombs

[queen jungle]

No apology needed. I noticed what you were doing and wanted to consider your navigation of our interaction

[flat sandal]

is that really a snowball though, sounds more like a slaughter^^

[queen jungle]

Heh, bloody snowball

[flat sandal]

fights are actually over quite quickly a lot of the time especially if shotguns are involved

[median zephyr]

if people are actually fighting yea, esp if theyre repeating shotguns not like a romero

[queen jungle]

True.

[median zephyr]

a crown thats being pushed or pushing with slugs can end a trio in a little over a second

[flat sandal]

I wish there was more of a snowball. or maybe I do, idk. for that you would have to have attrition be more of a factor. Fights would have to be longer and teams would have to start noticeably struggling at some point

I think that's just impossible though although it does happen. Usually just around heals though

but most of the time it's just bam, you dead

[median zephyr]

its hard to get long fights, with the amount of headshots people hit, and how most people are either running one shots or long ammo, meds go down quick, if you dont just immediately die

[flat sandal]

or soon, you're dead, bam 😄

[median zephyr]

but a nice medium range fight, where youre all rotating and getting tags, is fun

[flat sandal]

yep

the best

the our sniper here comes in 😄

[median zephyr]

well hopefully with bullet drop that will be harder, but well have to wait and see

[flat sandal]

yeah

2 weeks

anyway, getting real late here 😄

[queen jungle]

Goodnight!

[flat sandal]

good night

good talk although we literelly got nowhere 😄

it's the nature of ppl being differnt, all good^^

[median zephyr]

good night! and it happens, always nice to see new persepctives

[flat sandal]

yep

gn

[empty oasis]

@languid cargo You post "Title: Bucket/water bucket " has been removed due to **No troll/low effort ideas are allowed. **

[rancid jetty]

@visual anchor if you a 3 star dont wanna play vs high star dont play with your high star friends

[visual anchor]

They were randoms

[cursive karma]

@rancid jetty You can not choice between 3 or 6 stars total random. He just unlucky

[empty oasis]

@visual anchor Your post "Title: fix matchmaking" has been removed as it was feedback. If you'd like to leave game feedback, please do so in the #feedback channel

[visual anchor]

Not very clinically based

[empty oasis]

You'd have to take that up with Dag since he's the one who added that

[south umbra]

Does hunt ever plan on supporting the Steam invites in a more fleshed out manner? Take a game like Lethal Company (one dev btw_)for example. You can right click join friends, or even invite many people at once. Why does this game not support that? I dislike having to invite one friend at a time. I rather just send both an invite and they can join when they want.

[frigid folio]

@idle steeple Make sure the friend who isnt able to join has the same main server set as the lobby leader otherwise the game wont allow them to join the party. Crytek has done this intentionally to prevent people from server hoping to servers where their ping is too high to play on normally

[thin remnant]

Thx for clarifying I was thinking it may be that
#feedback-discussion message

[median zephyr]

np, swap and holster speeds honestly should be shown somewhere in game, but seeing as crosshair sizes for shotguns arent fixed, i doubt this is happening anytime soon if ever

[thin remnant]

I think they're meant to be the same tho

Fairly sure them being different is a bug

[median zephyr]

theres no way, a big clunky rifle shouldnt have the same draw or holster speed as a pistol

[thin remnant]

AAAAA

[median zephyr]

im not saying all are fully intentional

[thin remnant]

SORRY JUST HAVE TO SAY THIS

[median zephyr]

but theres a very obvious pattern between most, so its relatively intentional

[thin remnant]

About that discussion earlier of scottfield and new army and sparks being the newest pistols

Trueshot

Yayy I got one

[median zephyr]

trueshot is i believe the newest isnt it?

[thin remnant]

I believe so

[median zephyr]

yea for sure

trueshot good addition to game, unique, cool, sure its not meta, but more lower end weapons is WAY better then "new thing that completely overshadows the rest"

[thin remnant]

Well it's odd that only the newer guns have the swap speed, and I'm fairly sure those are the only two groups of swap speed for pistols, new and old, but rifles may have different speed idk

[median zephyr]

this is just incorrect, its not that all new guns have the same swap speeds, it just trends that theyre longer, but there is way more then 2 swap speeds for pistols

and rifles do have a different speed, most rifles, and most handguns are about the same, with some obvious outliars

what i mean to say is most rifles are similar, and most pistols are similar

not that rifles are close to pistols

[thin remnant]

Ah okay I was mistaken

[median zephyr]

i feel like your heart is in the right place, but for instance, the krag, has a draw speed of about 0.4 seconds, faster then average, the drilling has a draw speed of about, 0.5, which is about standard for rifles, and these are both RELATIVELY new

[thin remnant]

Mmmmm

[median zephyr]

its just weird outliars like the scottfield, the new army, lemat, sparks pistol, and uppermat that draw much slower then other pistols, and theyre newer

well, not lemat but the rest

[thin remnant]

Although you've proven me wrong I'd still like for some of the old guns to have their swapping reworked

[median zephyr]

you want swap speeds to be slower?

[thin remnant]

Well, somewhere in between might be nice, but because it's the new ones that have slower swap speed it seems that is what the new vision is.

[median zephyr]

i disagree, i think the newer slower swaps, should be brought down to match the others, at least in general

uppermat makes sense, its a big clunky thing not like a quick normal pistol, but things like the new army or scottfield being so much slower is kinda a shame

[thin remnant]

While this may be nice for us players, it still seems like crytek wants the inverse

Creeping into slower swap speed on the newer pistols rather than the old quick swapping

I don't see why else they'd make the new pistols so slow

[median zephyr]

i dont think so, if they wanted to, theyd be nerfing swap speeds, esp on the best pistols like the uppercut or dolch

im not sure, this would be an interesting question to ask during a dev QnA

[thin remnant]

It would

Honestly I don't mind what swap speeds are changed to as long as they're made more consistent

Anyway bye bye

[median zephyr]

yea, i agree itd be nice to be consistant, but i also wouldnt mind if they were used as a way to balance, while showing you ingame

like the dolch having a slower swap speed, in return for it being the dolch, wouldnt be so abd

[median zephyr]

#game-ideas message i agree the spear needs a nerf, but i think the throwing part is the most interesting thing it has, and should be the thing its used for. the melee should be nerfed in dmg, and in speed esp the light, and the throw should not kill to anywhere at any distance, i wouldnt mind even 15m kinda like a pocket slug, to even the arms, this would make it interesting, and not a replacement melee AND a pocket one shot.

[plucky plover]

Why has solo gaming become a nightmare?

[rare vortex]

Even with those nerfs, it kills throwing axes

there is no reason to take throwing axes for a pvp oriented player when spears are pocket crossbow bolts that work better than actual crossbow bolts, kiling to limbs

At least let it be that if you want a throwable melee, it should be throwing axe without trait, then spear with Assailant

and if you don't care for throwability, the damage stat is already the highest in its category

for melee damage

Why should it provide Katana damage yet also be throwable yet also not be a weapon slot, and rather just one toolslot?

Overall its effectively a toolslot Katana that's throwable
the show and flashiness is not the same, but the damage certainly is

if not better

So many features of the spear were uncalled for, especially its silent killer use

[willow burrow]

@thin remnant I read ur suggestion and I think we don't need more restoration, the game is too stally already and hunters get way too many lives, that's why they're changing it. There's no purpose to a change if you immediately plan a change that will be a counterweight to it. The restoration box during the last event was ample proof that abundance of resto effects is just bad.
Sidenote: killing meatheads is literally just tossing a sticky that a lot of ppl bring for bosses already.

[thin remnant]

@tawdry scarab the winfield we have in the game IS a winchester.

it's simply a rename to avoid legal issues.

we already have a winchester

[dusky tapir]

The 1895 is a Mako that can chamber spitzer rounds.

[tawdry scarab]

A Winchester long ammo…
Ever heard of the Russian 1895? Brother

[thin remnant]

Your suggestion clearly shows you didn't know the winfield was a winchester, otherwise you would've said "winfield 1895"

And I, perhaps incorrectly, further assumed that you simply wanted a winchester, thinking we didn't have it, and have it be a long ammo weapon.

[thin remnant]

Anyway, just use the mako

we already have enough long ammo rifles, i see absolutely no point to adding this weapon

on top of that, we already have a medium ammo variant of the winfield, and making it long ammo, may as well make a different gun at that point, which is what they did with the mako

[tawdry scarab]

Your assuming incorrectly
I stated exactly what I want
So it’s ok to have 4 bolt actions with long ammo but two lever action long ammo is two much ??
Done with this conversation

[thin remnant]

we have enough long ammo repeaters in general

when did I single out lever actions in that statement?

[rotund obsidian]

the issue isn't that it's 2 lever actions vs 4 bolts, it's that it's like 8 long ammo rifles vs like 2-3 compact rifles

[thin remnant]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

no point bothering ig, they're done with this conversation

[rotund obsidian]

I guess it's 4 compacts now with the marathon if you include both the pistol carbines?

for mediums we've got four rifles as well

[thin remnant]

m

and it would have to be a winfield variant keep that in mind

not saying what that means, just something to keep in mind

[thin remnant]

Can someone give me a list of the most suggested additions they've seen

[hollow wing]

@spiral dust you should probably think before typing. i also missed out but i can read #general-announcements message

[queen zinc]

More variety, even if simply variations of the same, is always good

Also, news flash, the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of weapons from this era would be considered "long ammo"

[spiral dust]

Wow, 1 free skin and 230 BBs 😄 this is definitely replacement for all missed skins.

[hollow wing]

cant say ''without resolving issue with the previous one kinda sus'' then if they did something

even if it isnt what you want

[spiral dust]

you cannot read or what?

[simple herald]

Some other have randomly ping issues and package loss (european servers)

[spiral dust]

In general - yes, but today looks ok

[karmic ivy]

Some do yes. It appears to be an ISP routing problem in most cases and european ISPs have the problem more than other places. Its rare in the US, but we still get reports of it. I think it has something to do with congestion because the problem comes and goes for some users. Telecom in the EU is notorious at this point for having that issue. A VPN is said to mitigate the problem. But I cannot say as Iv never experienced it here, and have not had to test the theory (us servers, Verizon ISP)

[median zephyr]

im sorry to break it to you, but even with this suggested change, there would be no reason to take axes for a pvp player, the thing axes have over it is being able to kill kennels, or ai and not be out in one, the axe will never outclass spear in pvp, making it cost a trait would just mean people play axes for a round, then get assailent, and i agree it does too many things, thats why i suggested nerfing its melee, bc the throw is its main identity.

[median zephyr]

although i dont agree with meatheads being the way to restore (too easy to do, even midfight) same with the restoration box being bad, because it was too easy, but if it was tied to pvp, and could only be done after a fight, this would make it so you dont start a later fight at an immense disadvantage, even though those people had nothing to do with it. and also nobody higher up is bringing stickys

[empty oasis]

@hasty sinew Your post "Title: Please roll back matchmaking" has been removed as it was feedback. If you'd like to leave game feedback, please do so in the #feedback channel

[median zephyr]

#game-ideas message id love to see something like this, but i wouldnt know how to balance it, if its a small slot itd compete with hand crossbow, and i dont see it making sense as anything bigger, maybe itd either have different interesting custom ammos, or just one shot to 19m (like the hand crossbow) but require a chargeup, but have a faster follow up. interesting thought at the very least

[thin remnant]

Okay, this doesn't disprove your sentence, but no way you just said "news flash"

The "variety" argument could be made for literally any weapon addition. Why not use their time to add something more beneficial to the game for more reason than "variety"?

The suggestion contained literally no reasoning as to why this Winfield would exist, but if you have something other than "variety", please tell me.

[median zephyr]

i dont think i love the idea, but itd basically be a better bullet with levering, plus lever actions typically keep their sights up/ stay in ads without iron eye

which im not sure i even want a betterin most ways mosin

[thin remnant]

We already have a mako.

[median zephyr]

yes, which is a worse bullet then mosin

[thin remnant]

So it'd be a better mako?

But maybe with like, slower cycle time idk

[median zephyr]

itd prob shoot slower, itd more likely be a better mosin

[thin remnant]

Mm

[median zephyr]

you can give it less ammo, or whatever, but honestly i dont think i want it

[thin remnant]

Well here's the thing. If it did 125+ damage, sounds really good, 125- damage, sounds really bad

[median zephyr]

i dont see a way to add it thatd make it interesting, and not just an upgrade or downgrade from mosin

their suggestion said same bullet as mosin

[thin remnant]

And there's still little to no benefit to the game itself

[median zephyr]

i dont think everything needs a benefit, but i do think we dont need to add things that make the game worse

so if its just turns out to be a better mosin, i dont want this

[thin remnant]

It would most likely have downsides

But may be negligible

My viewpoint is just id rather add something better xd

[median zephyr]

you can only pull on so much, lower cycle? no stripper? less ammo? like, there isnt much

i just find it hard to make it not just better, and all that effort to something thats kinda like a mix between mako and mosin, is kinda eh

[median zephyr]

to clarify i meant stay ads without, and keep the sights up the whole time with iron eye

[median zephyr]

#game-ideas message i dont like the idea of the new crosshair, but shotguns having accurate crosshairs would be SO nice, there is no reason to feed your players inaccurate information, i bet most players dont even know the shotgun crosshairs are mostly wrong

[river zephyr]

I've played a shooter that used a circle for the shotgun cross crosshair and it felt really good actually. Wish I could remember which game it was to show an example.

It set the shotgun apart more in feel but also made you feel like you were zeroing in not a specific point but on a specific mass area you wanted to hit

[thin remnant]

splitgate?

valorant?

[median zephyr]

this is very common, and it may have been nice, but in this game i like that most crosshairs are the same, and the ones that arent have a purpouse, like not having any vertical rng

[river zephyr]

Never played either of those. Maybe Rainbow 6 Siege?

[thin remnant]

that could be it

[river zephyr]

A compromise: allow players to adjust crosshairs for their preferred style. We can adjust mouse sensitivity for every type of scope so I can't imagine it's a stretch to allow players to adjust their crosshair for different gun types

[median zephyr]

oh 100% i see no reason to not let choice

this way everyone wins

its like centered crosshair

the only thing i dont want is settings that you turn on to get an advantage, something like scaling down the size of your guns or god knows what

but if its an opt into thing, and it offers no advantage, awesome, just an option for people who want

[river zephyr]

Completely agree to that

[thin remnant]

@paper belfry maybe explain in the description of your suggestion what an accolade is?

[obsidian narwhal]

@sick wind why not go one step further and have a Chauchat-Berthier?

[thin remnant]

please no

[obsidian narwhal]

[paper belfry]

That's something before you came, if you check mission summary there's blood bonds as rewards that comes from accolades (The cards you get when completing a mission) We used to get BB for completing matches, now we don't since they changed the game so we only use BB for skins, but a lot of players still want accolade's bb to come back, at least in some form

[thin remnant]

Ah I remember now [I wasn't in the server at the time], maybe describe that in the description though, you'd get more votes and such as I'm sure there's a lot of people who don't know / don't remember

[paper belfry]

hmm, i often try to leave everything simple as possible, but yeah i'll reconsider

[thin remnant]

i sort of disagree though, we have missions to get bloodbonds now and they changed it for a reason.

https://tenor.com/bo3K0.gif

[paper belfry]

Indeed

[obsidian narwhal]

it's godawful in real life

[thin remnant]

Got filled with mud and jammed right

Due to the open ammo mechanism

[obsidian narwhal]

the biggest problem is that the mag detaches itself with recoil lmao

because it's floppy

and not properly attached on the front end

[scenic mist]

Bring back earning bloodbonds for playing matches. 50 bloodonds a week is so bad for people that don't play that much.

[thin remnant]

Then pay up

They gotta make dat 💰

People forget bloodbonds are not a balanced game mechanic that should be changed for the benefit of the players, they are a tool to rake in money

[scenic mist]

I do, I'm one of the people that buys way more than I should. I own almost every DLC and I put in $40+ every event to get the battle pass and whatever bundles are for sale. 50 bloodbonds a week is just crazy if you don't play regularly.

[sand kiln]

Yeah most live service games won't give you any premium currency

[granite crystal]

Live service games are usually F2P though

[median zephyr]

this game is the single most generous game with its premium currency, and skins. youre not meant to be able to get everything without putting in money, theyre just skins at the end of the day so its not like youre missing out on new weapons or maps or bosses

[empty oasis]

@blazing fossil You post "Title: Add ability for two players to queue up for a random teammate in trios" has been removed due to Make sure your idea is not already in the game or on the roadmap

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxVu-IxiiIQ&t=220s

[blazing fossil]

Ok sorry about that!

[empty oasis]

@prime geyser Your post "Title: Western Deadpool" was removed due to **No troll/low effort ideas are allowed. **

[empty oasis]

@storm pendant Only one idea per post.

[storm pendant]

Oh, sorry. I'm new here.

I'll edit it

@unborn dagger Why are you against saving BBs found on death? Genuine question, I can't think of a reason.

BBs have had their value inflated so much that most people just leave when they find them, especially registers. Every team I've ever played with does so, everyone I've ever asked about it does so. It's just not worth the risk of losing a week's worth of in game currency, which hurts the game imo. Nobody likes leaving halfway through because they found BBs but often they feel obligated to

[median zephyr]

well theres a few reasons, if someone likes matches being emptier, or if someone likes the feeling of having something valuble and trying to get out

i didnt like your idea at first, and even if its rare to find a golden cash, i do like the idea of more full matches

[storm pendant]

Ehh, I guess? I like to farm AI in empty matches and loot as much as the next guy but generally people want matches to stay populated. It just doesn't feel good to have to bounce the second you find a gold register. You got all your equipment ready and now you're leaving often before ever seeing anyone

Off topic but I really want a S.T.A.L.K.E.R-like set in the Hunt universe

[median zephyr]

idk the general concencus, but im just stating the counter fauctuals. i actually like your idea bc i enjoy fuller matches

[storm pendant]

There's no rule saying I can't make a suggestion asking for a different game in the hunt universe, and it is on topic technically speaking

Hunt was originally going to be a co op third person shooter. Would be nice to see that concept re-imagined in first person with more of a STALKER approach, semi-hardcore survival and more complex AI

[median zephyr]

the blood bond pouches has been toned down tons, golden caches are rare, sure this will give people more BBS on average, and mostly only makes it so golden cashes dont leave, but i think the pros outweigh the cons

[median zephyr]

this could 100% work, but itd have to be completely different, the hunt universe is just good

[storm pendant]

I don't recall pouches being reduced, they never mentioned it when they removed accolades, seems about the same

[median zephyr]

they never said it, but as someone who has played for years, money pouches and BB pouches are absolutely reduced

[storm pendant]

Oh for sure it'd have to be different, but I'm okay with that. The gunplay and movement could stay mostly intact the biggest thing that'd need to change is the complexity of AI and how they interact

[storm pendant]

I've played for a few years and never noticed, could it just be that you're less vigilant about looking for them than you were when you were new?

[median zephyr]

yea basically, bc as it stands ai in our current hunt is not meant to kill you itself, at least if you know what youre doing

[median zephyr]

def not, if anything i know the spawns better then ever

its all anecdotal, but i remember ALWAYS finding multiple pouches per game, only picking up ones on my path, if anything im looting around more due to workbenches to help me prestiege

now a days i dont notice 0, but it feels less, especially bb pouches

i typically mostly find them on the workbenches

[storm pendant]

On rare occasion I still get killed by dogs but that's because of their teleport-dodge that can happen without cooldown. Hopefully the engine upgrade will come with some fixes along that line.

[storm pendant]

Yeah this is where I find most BB pouches.

Waiting for people to make a few suggestions before begging for a Hunt co op game in suggestions, don't want to flood it

I wonder if the devs actually read the suggestion channels

[median zephyr]

oof, doesnt happen to me, but getting 100d to 0 from dogs sounds rough

[storm pendant]

It's not something that happens often, and only when I'm not running stam

[median zephyr]

100% once workbenches came out the spawning of pouches felt off and less

[storm pendant]

Sometimes the dogs will do the glitchy step dodge which is more like a teleport than an actual dodge, you can literally see them just kinda hover backwards for a sec. I've done some messing around just to see how the trigger works, they'll do the dodge when crossbow bolts are incoming when they haven't been alerted

It doesn't come up so often that I think it's a priority but when it does it does make you go "gawd DAMN"

[median zephyr]

ive shot many dogs with crossbows and many silenced things and ive never seen this happen, i have however seen them get alerted when a silenced round is fired, when it doesnt hit them or hit the ground near them, almost like it heightened their awareness just by pulling the trigger

and then obv from a new alert they turn to face you, which means if they were sideways, they may dodge a slower projectile

[storm pendant]

Let me see if I shadowplayed it

@prime geyser I think a replay feature is planned as part of the anti-cheating initiative, they need the engine update to add it

[median zephyr]

theyve talked about replays and stuff esp 2d replay for a long time, but david said 2d replay isnt in the works atm sadly

[median zephyr]

id love to see it! esp if its a bug it may help fix it

[storm pendant]

No promises, I've got well over 150 raw 5-minute shadowplay clips I'd have to sift thru

And there's no guarantee I even thought to capture it

[median zephyr]

no big deal! if you ever randomly see it id love to see it thats all, but at the end of the day its not urgent or a neccesity

[storm pendant]

Something I desperately wish I'd captured is one occurrence with beastface where I tripped crows that had to have been 20m away through a dirt mound

I was so sure that there was NO WAY I'd tripped them I walked over to check

Only happened once but soundtraps can be a little wonky around walls in general

[median zephyr]

yea for sure, ive had some wonky sound trap stuff, some things like stepping on glass or a stick have HUGE range that makes it kinda look silly sometimes too

[storm pendant]

Beastface feels like a dice roll between whether you'll trip them from 15m or whether you can walk straight up to them without setting them off

Ducks, for whatever reason, are the most consistent soundtrap by far

[median zephyr]

ive def had my fair share of crows that dont make noise on the other side of the wall go off, and crows i am next to without even beast face in a corn field that dont

[storm pendant]

Maybe the engine update will come with some soundtrap fixes if we're lucky

[median zephyr]

for sure, imo horses are the ones that i trust the least

[storm pendant]

For me crows are the wonkiest, horses are relatively consistent but absolutely have their moments

[median zephyr]

maybe! they havent talked about it but i can dream everything will be more consistant

[storm pendant]

I will warn people, there are gonna be a lot of new major bugs that come with an engine upgrade like this, especially graphical bugs I suspect

There will probably be at least a month of hotfixes

[median zephyr]

im sure new problems will arise, but hopefully the team is on top of it so the major ones at least get smashed quick

[storm pendant]

I still can't fathom how buffing the krag to be just the best rifle for most situations and adding the spear in its current state as a tool hasn't even been addressed

Unless they've said something here on the discord

[median zephyr]

well simple, krag was a sidegrade, so most people didnt use it, so they buffed it, and id imagine theyre working on the new engine, so theyre kinda preoccupied

[storm pendant]

Sidegrades are what weapons should be though

[median zephyr]

if they just gave the krag the more ammo, it wouldve been perfectly fine

i agree

but the hunt community doesnt wanna change

[storm pendant]

I think that wouldn't have been a big deal but I didn't think it even needed it,. saw plenty of krags in game.

[median zephyr]

theyll only use something other then mosin if its better

i dont think it needed it either, but 3 more bullets then the mosin isnt gonna make it busted

[storm pendant]

Honestly I think the long ammo tryhards who use mosin and lebel, nothing else are the main reason they changed the krag. The loud minority who cries that "if it doesn't do at least 125 damage it's garbage"

[median zephyr]

krag was a SLEEPER pick

idk exactly why they did, but people who think being able to down a person down a bar being everything do not know what is good

krag is just better then the mosin, even before, within 40m, for headhsots, and 2 taps, yes you gave up the downed body shot, but you shoot almost as fast as a winnie with iron eye

[storm pendant]

I just wish the devs explained every change in detail in patch notes. I'm still confused as to why they made all melees 1 slot and killed that little niche of buildcrafting instead of buffing the axe and hammer to be worth the 2 slot status.

Now the only melee you see is the katana, and SOMETIMES a baseball bat, very rarely

[median zephyr]

id like more transparency, but i dont think you could buff the axe to be worth 2 slots

[storm pendant]

I've sene a whopping 1 saber since the change, and I only bring the saber out of stubbornness.

[median zephyr]

what can it do? one shot bosses? theres only so good you can make melees

[storm pendant]

Range man, that was the big thing between the hammer and axe, low range.

[median zephyr]

even if you made it 3.5m that still isnt worth 2 slots

[storm pendant]

Machete would be used more often if it penetrated limbs so it didn't get caught on arms

[median zephyr]

it penetrates limbs

[storm pendant]

Disagree, it'd be way cheaper than katana

[median zephyr]

its just that its range is bad

[storm pendant]

When did they add that? People's biggest issue with the machete was that it didn't 1 hit to chest and got caught on arm constantly

Did they add limb pen when they buffed its dmg?

[median zephyr]

cheaper doesnt mean better, otherwise youd see a lot of nagants, too many people in this game has way too much money

[median zephyr]

its been this way for a while, the reason machette is bad is bc theres better options, like sabre

[storm pendant]

No but in combination with better melee range it'd make a difference.

[median zephyr]

and now esp katana

[thin remnant]

Agreed, I hate the fact theyre removing the downsides from so many things

[median zephyr]

^

[thin remnant]

Bayonet and krag for example

[median zephyr]

idm bayonettes being buffed, they were already better then base

and it eliminates them from bringing sniper

[storm pendant]

Hey at least they're toning back the custom ammo to give guns some unique identities again.

[thin remnant]

They had worse sway.

Enough to make people not use them

[median zephyr]

im aware, but besides seeing a number be bigger, it didnt chnge much

[storm pendant]

I missed the patch notes where they made bayonets OHK to the chest so I was flabbergasted when one of my friends pointed out "no no they do 151 damage to chest now"

[thin remnant]

Imo they should have a different downside

[median zephyr]

nah, it was placebo

[thin remnant]

Like slightly worse hipfire or smth

[median zephyr]

"my nubmber is worse so obv its worse" was the whole thing

[thin remnant]

Need good number :(

Bayonets were slept on too

[median zephyr]

i ran all the bayonettes and normals constantly, i even sat and compared the sway side by side

it was INCREADIBLY negligable

[thin remnant]

At least it was there.

[median zephyr]

doesnt matter really, didnt make it worse

it only stopped people from using it due to psychology

[thin remnant]

I suppose they technically have the downside of immolators

But how much does that really matter

[median zephyr]

for sure, but i mean eh

knuckle knife, mosin obrez, even a spear delete them

depends on the player

a good player this will do nothing, but i dont think they need a huge downside

[thin remnant]

This is probably a hot take but imo..

[median zephyr]

a bayonet isnt so good they need to be nerfed

[thin remnant]

Apertures should be made less blurry but given a downside imo.

So they're not as painful to use but also not a straight upgrade

[storm pendant]

Knuckle knife isn't a straight upgrade so I can't quite get behind this. Worse for dogs than knife, worse for immos than knuckles, worse for armored in general. It's notably different

[median zephyr]

im gonna be honest i have no clue what to do with apertures

[thin remnant]

Who said nerf, increase the bayo damage but decrease the hipfire accuracy or smth idk

[storm pendant]

They're fine, they have their niche, I hate using them because they give me a headache and make me feel like I'm blind but some people love em

[median zephyr]

sure, but its also better for players, better for bees, better for grunts, it has upsides and downsides

[storm pendant]

Allowing people to take off the bayonet for better accuracy would be cool

[median zephyr]

you were specifically saying downsides you did lol

[storm pendant]

Yeah, I think the upsides and downsides are fair and make it unique enough to not need changed

[thin remnant]

Pretty sure KK is like, 0.5 seconds slower than dusters for immos

If you have frame perfect timing tho

[storm pendant]

Still slower, in a fight that can matter.

[median zephyr]

i havent tested it but it depends, if you are running up with a heavy charge dusters are similar

[storm pendant]

Immolator could get shot while you're about to take that extra hit, or you could get shot in the back

[median zephyr]

a bit faster, but if you arent prepared the knuckle knife will take it

[storm pendant]

Knuckle knife having slower light attack wouldn't be all bad. Just a tiny reduction

[median zephyr]

i dont think knuckle knife needs a nerf

[storm pendant]

I don't necessarily think so either but if it were to be changed that's the main thing that sticks out to me

[thin remnant]

I said give it downsides, not nerf it. As I said, the bayonet could have more damage but the gun gets worse hipfire

[median zephyr]

we dont need to have all melee tools be perfectly split usage, look at heavy knife, it never will

[storm pendant]

I'm a heavy knife lover man, I think it's mega underrated

[thin remnant]

Heavy knife is slept on tho

[median zephyr]

downsides is a nerf, if you said upside and downside thatd be both, but were just arguing previous statements so its not important

god no

yes its nice to light attack grunts

[storm pendant]

No dude it can clear concertina bombs in like 4 hits

[median zephyr]

but against people, and immos especially and dogs and armored its bad

[storm pendant]

It's absolutely nuts

I also don't think it's bad against people, hitting heads with it is super easy pz

[thin remnant]

Why is it so bad on dogs and armoured

[median zephyr]

yea sure, but against good people, youre not able to melee them

[storm pendant]

Actually great against dogs?

[median zephyr]

just time to kill, and stamina on armored, and for dogs its a range thing

[storm pendant]

This is where we're gonna have to agree to disagree, you're way outta pocket on this one

[median zephyr]

no shot

[storm pendant]

Yes shot my man, go in and try it right now.

[thin remnant]

No cap fr fr

[median zephyr]

thats fine, but ask anyone whos played the game for a while, heavy knife is the worst

i have tried it

[storm pendant]

I Have played the game for 3 years and have2k hours, I'd say that I count