feedback-discussion

[rotund obsidian]

@chilly nova #feedback message When chokes detonate, the initial burst is significantly larger than the lingering cloud.

[hot vigil]

True true and nevertheless it also just... well, hunt have a lot of balance issues (imo) and "should scope be stronger" is just a weird one to look into rn

[lean estuary]

“Should a gun be more versatile” is more like it…I don’t understand why people are against removing your scope if you end up in a fog map, either…as long as you can’t put it back on during the match, it should be fine…you make a choice and it’s a gamble…maybe you’ll wish you left it on! Who knows.

[hot vigil]

Making things more versatile is making it stronger.

It is about commitment

I don't get to put a scope on my gun if the weather is good.

So scopes shouldn't get to remove it if it is bad.

[lean estuary]

You can also consider that scopes are more delicate and temperamental in the 1890s…ripping it off the gun is easy! Re-installing, repairing and re-zeroing it is probably not something you can do effectively in a few minutes, in the field, away from a bench and tools

[lean estuary]

Also, it’s not the same thing, again. If you didn’t bring in a scope, why would you suddenly have one to install when it’s sunny in the map?

[hot vigil]

Well maybe people don't wanna bring a scope because they don't wanna risk using it in bad weather/night maps.
But if you gave people the option to put on a scope at the beginning of the match after they checked the weather you'd see an increase in scopes.

[rotund obsidian]

It'd honestly just be better if the game did weather in like, 15 minute increments or something. Everyone queueing at the same time gets rain and it's shown in the lobby.

[lean estuary]

I don’t mind that either, the scope removal thing really seems like the simplest solution

[rotund obsidian]

while it's better for keeping people in matches, i do agree that it's a slight buff to scoped weapons overall since you aren't forced to commit to them.

not that that's really an issue but i am a scope hater anyway so im conflicted

[lean estuary]

?

[lean estuary]

That’s kind of what I’m saying, it’s still a gamble. You may really regret taking the scope off

[hot vigil]

How would you regret it???

If you deem "this weather makes scopes unusable" then you not gonna regret it.

[rotund obsidian]

#feedback-discussion message <- No he's absolutely right, if you could just pop your scope off at the start, people (who could afford it and like running scopes) would just take a scope every match. This more affects the middle ground of people who sorta like scopes but would rather run irons incase there's bad weather.

I think the increase in scope pickrate would outweigh the decrease in scopes you see from people taking them off at the start.

but that's purely speculation

[lean estuary]

No, they’re not totally unusable, it happens to me all the time when you run into a situation where you’d be better with a scope. If you took it off, you’d regret it

[vital fractal]

Commitment to an inventory loadout is a major aspect of this game, undoing it or undermining it is a wrong idea tbh

Having hard limitations (that tbh aren’t even that hard, scopes are usable in every condition- seriously) is a key aspect to management of risk and play style in the game

Whether it’s PvP vs PvE choices or Specialized vs Generalist

[lean estuary]

Yes i understanndd

[hot vigil]

Okay, but like.... if you choose to remove the scope it is because you think it would more of downside than an upside.

[vital fractal]

Not saying you don’t, just voicing that I think undermining that system by increasing versatility isn’t something I favor

I have said the same thing with the drilling hatchet lmao

I have said the same thing with loadout changes

[lean estuary]

Are you against looting/switching weapons in game?

[vital fractal]

No, not specifically

I meant having back up loadouts at the start of a match to swap into

[chilly nova]

Like I just said, it shouldn't be...

[lean estuary]

Yeah, you make that judgement call during the match, and you could be wrong!

[rotund obsidian]

So you'd prefer to have no burst? your friend would just not have extinguished in that case since your choke bomb was too far away.

[vital fractal]

But… you do see how being able to make that decision is more powerful than currently correct?

Like at all

It just is

[chilly nova]

Jesus christ, the people in this discord. No, I'd prefer consistency between the burst and the choke cloud.

[lean estuary]

No i mean taking another Hunter’s weapon during a match…not so committed to your own?

[rotund obsidian]

You either want no burst, or you want the lingering cloud to be incredibly massive. Which of the two?

[chilly nova]

Consistency between the 2

[vital fractal]

I see what you’re trying bridge here but you’re going to need a lot more support

One is picking items up in game, from a person who died- whether you killed them or were lucky to find, it is not something that can be relied upon to change classes to something that you can choose to improve your situation

In essence

Not the same points at all

But good try 🙂

[hot vigil]

Except you can just play into your decision?
If you don't have a scope on your mosin on night map, play closer.

[lean estuary]

Haha it’s not that “powerful”. Your Lebel Marksman just turns into a Lebel, not an Avto Nitro

[hot vigil]

It is consistent?
It is always a 3m radius that burst 5m radius???

[chilly nova]

Lmao, wtf? How is 5m = 3m?

[hot vigil]

Because it BURST

It initially expand to 5m and then recess to 3m

[lean estuary]

Yess. I also understand this

[rotund obsidian]

I mean, sure the cloud could be buffed to match the burst size but that's just a huge buff in area denial. I think the burst is fine as is, sometimes I just want to put a friend out without coughing when I revive him. Just be more accurate with your bombs if you want the cloud to deny reignition.

[chilly nova]

I literally just said I want the initial size to be the same as the size after. The words aren't that complicated.

[fathom rampart]

I am pro removing your scope during game, or being able to switch to iron sights even when scope is present

It would only enrich the experience

[hot vigil]

Why, that would just make it worse.
If you know how to burst you can utilize chokes insanely good.

[chilly nova]

Because I have no feedback to tell whether my partner is in the cloud or not

If they were consistent, then I'd know that if I choked him, then he'd be safe for the duration of the cloud

[rotund obsidian]

Now that's a fair criticism to make. Some clearer indication as to whether a body is currently in choke or not would be reasonable

[hot vigil]

Well, you know where you partner is, even marked thru walls, you get a trajectory indicator.
So if you know how much 3/5m is you can adjust your throw to the desired outcome.

[lean estuary]

Do you think I’m saying you should be able to put a scope ON when you want?

[hot vigil]

No, but I wont agree it is a "risk" to remove your scope at will.

[rotund obsidian]

Being able to remove the scope at the start is functionally the same as just choosing whether you want to play scoped or not at the start.

i mean sure there's the cost of the scope but ehh

[lean estuary]

I would say remove it at any point in the match…we’ve probably just been saying “start” because that’s when you discover you’re in fog, night, etc.

[lean estuary]

Right

[analog sigil]

snipers are annoying to play against and if they can also have an annoying long range weapon and use that same thing in compounds with ease its fucked

[rotund obsidian]

and yeah being able to just take it off whenever gives the weapons more versatility. I can snipe at bounty lair windows then just ditch the scope to play close range the moment they catch on. that's a scope buff anyway.

[lean estuary]

Sure!

[hot vigil]

Sniper players will pretend that side-arms doesn't exists 👊😔

[analog sigil]

its balanced around that snipers have a weapon that excels at one range very well but gets progressively more useless at shorter ranges so they must have to rely on their sidearm

[lean estuary]

Lots of bad faith takes from you guys…

[lean estuary]

Yes, the balance is very obvious

[analog sigil]

so breaking it is very silly

[hot vigil]

That ain't about bad faith.
But you talk like a mosin sniper is useless on a night map and should have the option to be a normal mosin.

[lean estuary]

No it’s not useless…do you remember the conversation we had up there? Did you read it?

[hot vigil]

Well, then why do you want to remove it?

Like

I don't get it

[vital fractal]

The ability to adapt is a major power, I’m not saying for the rifle itself

[hot vigil]

Why should snipers not suffer consequences of their choice compared to any other gun?

[vital fractal]

Idk man, feels opposite here

[hot vigil]

If you don't have the skill to use sniper scopes in bad weather, you have deadeye and aperture sights.

Game literally provides solutions to your issue

[lean estuary]

No i understand where you guys think you’re coming from

[vital fractal]

Then why imply bad faith argument

Tf

You keep saying you understand but it’s just like you’re throwing that out there to throw it out there lmao

Or worse

[lean estuary]

So - some people don’t like how you can’t tell what weather you get on the map when you go in, and taking in a Sniper scope on a low visibility map creates an experience for the player where they can’t effectively use it a lot of the time

They may not have made that choice if they knew the weather

[hot vigil]

Except they can, the gun doesn't shoot worse or deal less damage, they just don't have as large sidelines.

[vital fractal]

Either way, we all agree having the ability to make a decision to alter your loadout from the beginning in response to new information is inherent a buff to the player, compared to baseline game play currently yes?

[vital fractal]

That’s part of the risk management of specializing vs generalist tools

[hot vigil]

More so, you STILL have a side arm.
Currently the best weapon in the game is a side arm.
Yes, sniper is not optimal on rain map, but so is shotgun not on clear day DeSalle/Stillwater map.

[fathom rampart]

But if they remove the scope for the match, aren’t they no longer a sniper?

[hot vigil]

Convo is going in different directions, some said remove at the start of match other at will.

[lean estuary]

You can’t SEE anything 90% of the time

[vital fractal]

I think some people are just missing the overall point

[lean estuary]

This isn’t just “altering your loadout”, dude

[vital fractal]

This is by essence more than that #edited to actually agree, it’s actually more than that

[hot vigil]

Same applies for anyone else.
Also, not true, Crytek (fucked it up but) lessen the rain/dank-zone duration.

[vital fractal]

And ties into player power as a base

Actually I’ll take it back

It’s more than “just” altering your loadout***

[lean estuary]

Sir. Sir! I protest. In essence they are not the same, for the substance is differentiated

[fathom rampart]

I think they should either let you know ahead of game whether it’s night/ fog, OR let you remove scope(for match duration) during the match

that’s fair

[vital fractal]

Part of Hunt is adapting to situations, the lack of knowledge of weather is key to that

Otherwise you’ll have loadouts that are much more homogenous than are currently, and even currently it’s an issue

[fathom rampart]

I understand (and like) the need to adapt in hunt

[hot vigil]

Well, I can tell you how that goes.
Day maps is gonna 90% scopes and night is gonna be 90% shotguns.

[lean estuary]

Fun talking with you guys

[fathom rampart]

Yes. Also far fewer people in night maps.

Which is why they should let you remove scope in game

[hot vigil]

Naw, would just make scope weapons strictly better

With no downside at all

Except if you don't wanna scope

Like, we have... deadeye, marksman and aperture weapons too, you can just use that if you cannot use sniper scopes in suboptimal conditions.

[fathom rampart]

No, it would just make your mosin sniper into a mosin, for the match

not “better”

[lean estuary]

But you don’t know if the conditions are suboptimal before you choose your weapon!

[vital fractal]

Then why advocate against it, when it’s healthy for the game?

[rotund obsidian]

in fog or rain or whatever i think a mosin is better than a mosin sniper, and clearly whoever is removing the scope agrees otherwise they wouldn't do it

[hot vigil]

Hence better, because there will literally be no risk of picking a mosin sniper over a regular mosin.

[vital fractal]

Better is relative, in this context it would be “better” for most intents according to most people

[rotund obsidian]

it is a power increase by mitigating the weakness in suboptimal conditions

[vital fractal]

Exactly

[hot vigil]

Yes? That is the point.
If you don't wanna take the risk run other scopes.

Or none

[vital fractal]

The entire conversations point, essentially in a sentence

[vital fractal]

^

[lean estuary]

Talking to you guys is giving me a concussion

[rotund obsidian]

but like i see both sides here, it sucks to run snipers in fog so removing it would be cool (and prevent people leaving early), but it also would increase sniper pickrates and buff them so i'd be fine without the change lol

[fathom rampart]

But your argument here is ‘never take a scope’

[vital fractal]

Didn’t you try to exit the conversation like 3 times now 🗿

🗿🗿🗿

[lean estuary]

What??

[hot vigil]

I literally said there are other scoped alternatives.
Bigger the zoom, bigger skill needed to use in sub optimal conditions.

[vital fractal]

That’s not it at all

He just said if you don’t want to risk it, don’t run it 💀

Again boils down to risk management

[hot vigil]

Like there is legit only two types of maps where I think sniper get heavily punished:

• Dank-zone
• Fog
  And fog is only to a lesser degree.
  Rain and night is fine to use sniper in imo.

Yes you not gonna do 300m shots, but you can still see VERY far and on night maps a sniper spotting a team at a distance is insanely powerful.

[lean estuary]

It’s crazy how resistant you guys are to something that would marginally effect gameplay, and make the experience more fun for some players hahaha

[hot vigil]

I would affect gameplay more than you think, as it becomes no risk to run snipers, more people will run it and making day maps sniper heaven.

If people could remove scopes I would never play day and just extract bc 99% of the server is gonna have scopes.

[vital fractal]

1. It’s not marginal
2. That fun for “some players” would negatively affect the health of the game for EVERYONE

An Avtomat with 60 rounds reserve not relying on a spare set of pistols would be fun, but we can all agree that’s a bit excessive

[fathom rampart]

So: Don’t know if fog/rain/night, ever —-> not willing to risk unusable sniper whole match —-> don’t take sniper.

That’s the chain of logic i should follow?

[lean estuary]

I think your giant brains might be over analyzing it, and assuming a greater risk to the health of the game than there is

[hot vigil]

But you can pick deadeye or aperture :)

[vital fractal]

If you’re risk adverse, sure

If you want to gamble on your specialized loadout being the a major reason you win/lose- yes, that’s how that works, as with every bit of equipment in the game

[fathom rampart]

But my point is, then I have NO option to run sniper ever. It’s effectively just eliminating sniper from my decision tree. (Also, marksman isn’t fun to use in fog)

[lean estuary]

False equivalence here, sir

[vital fractal]

No it’s a great one utilizing hyperbole to show that fun for some players does NOT override the health of the game and in cases can negatively affect it

[hot vigil]

Yes you have, just need to roll with the punches.
Like you can also get sniper and just never end up at a sideline where you can use it.
Or have a shotgun but never being able to get into a cqc fight.

[lean estuary]

Do you mean sight-line

[hot vigil]

Same same, but yes

[fathom rampart]

Sure, but there’s currently no weather type that completely eliminates shotguns. The what if the situation never comes up to use it argument applies to literally all weapons

[hot vigil]

there is also no weather type that completely eliminates scoped weapons :)

[fathom rampart]

I did not know what you meant by ‘side line’.

[lean estuary]

Why say anything hyperbolic? Sure extreme things can fuck up the game. But the scope thing isn’t that extreme? Are you pretending it is?

[fathom rampart]

This is a bad faith argument

You know what we’re talking about

[hot vigil]

Your choice of words 🤷
But scoped in bad weather ain't too bad.

as you make it out to be

[rotund obsidian]

need an acid rain that dissolves shotgun pellets in the air so they just can't kill anything fr

[split linden]

I'd have to agree with bigowo mccree, shotguns would absolutely effectively get eliminated from clear daytime maps if the culture of the game shifted in favour of long range fights

you see a lot of that in servers and brackets where long ammo meta completely dominates the scene

[rotund obsidian]

okay, you've convinced me. let's do it and buff scopes

[fathom rampart]

But the WEATHER itself isn’t doing that

[lean estuary]

……but what about regular long ammo guns?

[fathom rampart]

That’s what im talking about

[split linden]

sure, and the weather itself isn't screwing over scopes that hard either, I don't see much of an issue personally using sniper scopes in fog or dark

[vital fractal]

I literally explained it in the same message

[split linden]

it reduces your effective range, sure, but the scope is still useable and still highly effective

[lean estuary]

You’re pretending we’re talking about a magic OP weapon, which we’re not

[fathom rampart]

This IS the point of what im saying though

[lean estuary]

No one is disagreeing that it is still useable

[vital fractal]

Bruh is speaking about a point I’m not evening talking about

[fathom rampart]

Yeah, would just turn a sniper rifle into a normal rifle

[vital fractal]

My guy re comprehend it

Then come back thank you

[rotund obsidian]

this might be a hot take but i think no gun should have a headshot range of anything over 200m

[lean estuary]

Haha my guy

[vital fractal]

Honestly good take

[split linden]

yeah, this would really be resolved a lot if they shrank back down the effective ranges

[analog sigil]

I think this might be a hot take but if you get headshot at 200+ meters that guy deserved the kill anyways

[fathom rampart]

(Sorry pyrokov, not trying to be rude)

[split linden]

everything has powercrept way too much

[vital fractal]

Would help balance Compact, med, long

[vital fractal]

Then damnit I should’ve gotten my 150m Nagant hs kill

[split linden]

no it's ok, i understand. I know a lot of people just instant extract and there probably should be some kind of solution to this, but I strongly believe that the solution isn't by significantly compromising the map queue system or by compromising the time of days

[lean estuary]

I think you’re going out of your way to not see my point….seems like a common thing in here

[fathom rampart]

Heavy is saying comparing being able to turn a scoped rifle into an unscoped rifle is not the same as running an AVtomat with 60 rds

[quaint cloak]

Alright everyone post your RAADS-R scores in one....two....three....

[vital fractal]

It’s not comparing the two

It’s comparing the logic of fun overriding health, and that not being a probability/being a major issue

Which it is

[fathom rampart]

I agree

[vital fractal]

Social interaction blunted

[fathom rampart]

I do think this would be the one real consequence to being able to un-scope: more long gun meta. Might be slightly different between PC / console though

I see a pretty good variety of guns on console 3/4 star

haven’t been in long gun meta hell yet

[lean estuary]

You’re acting like you’ve correctly estimated the probabilities of all these events

I’d like to see the data…I think removing a scope isn’t an extreme case, and it doesn’t cause a fun/health critical paradox like you’re claiming

My man my guy bruv you just don’t know that my guy

[fathom rampart]

Also, paying a small fee to unscope, or only being able to unscope at a workbench, would be additional things to consider!

[hot vigil]

Well, we've seen what happens when there were only night maps.
It became a shotgun only game.

So we have some indication that people like to min/max

Same with redclue/bosswhispers

[lean estuary]

It did not, on console, plenty of all types of weapons

Maybe pc though

[split linden]

i suspect that the ability to remove scopes in the game will greatly increase the number of scopes we see in the game, even if it does sound like a cool idea

i think more guns spawning in the game world would be a better starting point

[analog sigil]

like if scopes are buffed game will have scopes so often its going to be hunt: get down or you get sniped from 300m

[split linden]

add lots of rifles to the armouries in the game world like at wolfshead arsenal

[lean estuary]

I thought other players (like myself) would rather take an unscoped weapon because of close range fighting that happens in ALL weather, not because I’m worried about ending up in the fog or dark

[analog sigil]

scopes are largely unnecessary for the usualy 10-150m distances

[split linden]

well you kind of put it in your own words, the fog and dark dissuades people from picking scopes

once you can pick between scope and no scope in the midst of a game, more people might retain that scope

[lean estuary]

Well my point there being - would people really take more scopes? Wouldn’t you still have the same advantages/disadvantages at close and long range? (This is still talking about taking a scope off, and not being able to put it back on during the match…NOT switching between the two)

Is this THAT different than just looting a weapon from someone??

[hot vigil]

It is that more differerent to loot from someone else because that actually require you to kill the person.

[rotund obsidian]

If you could take them off yeah people would take more scopes. I'm sure in brackets where money is no object, lotta mosins would instead be a mosin sniper that people just ditch the scope on the moment they get closer to their enemy.

[lean estuary]

Not if you found a corpse but you would have thought of that, right?

[hot vigil]

Okay, but then it doesn't matter if you had any weapons

[lean estuary]

Man

[hot vigil]

I mean, you talking about an edge case. Usually people loot guns from people they kill, it is rare to just find a body in the wild.

Without having to fight someone near it

[lean estuary]

Not rare

[hot vigil]

So yes, it is that much more different

[lean estuary]

Don’t you encounter multiple teams at a compound? Do you kill everyone yourself?

[hot vigil]

Yes, but that goes back to the point of "Usually people loot guns from people they kill"

[lean estuary]

Holyy

[hot vigil]

There have been a exchange of bullets.
And you've used your scoped gun (or side arm) to kill those people.

In my experience, it is rare to come by a compound and find bodies from an unrelated fire fight.

[lean estuary]

No no, loot a weapon from anywhere, from someone or a saddle, watchtower, supply wagon….whatever!

Doesn’t matter how they died, if it’s a corpse

[hot vigil]

Sure, but most in world weapon spawn is gonna be a downgrade from a mosin/krag/cenny sniper.
But turning those guns from a scoped to a normal version is less of a punishment.

And you'll have to seek them out

and be lucky it is something you wanna roll with.

Dunno what to say at this point.
Because people have expressed the concern and pointed out how removal of scopes at will (at the beginning of a match or at anytime) would increase the scope usage as scopes would be a non-commitment aspect of a loadout.
It would make day/night/weather maps more predictable and meta would warp around the fact you can just remove your scope from already strong rifle options.

[lean estuary]

I tell you what, I hear that you’re scared of scopes, and I think you guys are making a lot of slippery arguments where you’re not interested in seeing how it could be a slight improvement and potential time saver

Not sure if your meta forecasts are accurate

[hot vigil]

I am not scared of scopes.
I am just scared of a stale meta that is already favoured by scopes :)
And it ain't a time saver, just stay in the match.

[lean estuary]

Stay in the match? I’m talking about searching around looking for another weapon to loot, not leaving the map

[hot vigil]

Well, I mean you don't need to do that either

Just play the gun you brought?

Like

ain't that hard

Or play aperture sights, you can flip them for free and comes with a marksman zoom :)

Even comes on both Mako AND Lebel

Two very good rifles.

[lean estuary]

You want to start all over?

[lean estuary]

Yep, these are all true

[hot vigil]

There is no reason to start over, I understand you just don't want commit to a loadout and want an easy and convenient way to play with an optimal loadout no matter what :)

I given you ALL the options you can do if you think Sniper scopes are a little too much to handle for you :)

[lean estuary]

There you go again, assuming i’m saying the stupidest thing 🤓

Welp

[hot vigil]

Well, you clearly ignore EVERY solution I give to you, that the GAME gives you

[lean estuary]

This is missing the point haha

i appreciate the help then

[hot vigil]

Not it ain't because not being able to remove your scope IS THE POINT.

That is what the game is DESIGNED and BALANCED around.

[lean estuary]

This is another big assumption on your part that it can’t be changed or tweaked, or have a balanced change…you can probably imagine something that would work, if you give it a shot!

[hot vigil]

How would it be balanced?

Making scoped weapons cost like 5x times more?

That would affect some pick rates

But wouldn't impact the wealthy hunt players

[lean estuary]

Then I guess the maps wouldn’t be flooded with Scopers.

[hot vigil]

Sure, but it would severely punish casual play, like I like to play scopes too, but having to pay like 500 for a martini deadeye bc someone else want the options to remove it at will is insane.

[lean estuary]

This could also be true. We’ll have to consider it further..

[hot vigil]

Think crux of the issue is that it would be straight upgrade to scopes.

Which scopes doesn't need.

[fathom rampart]

well, i suggested this a little while ago

but the real issue is that there’s no other weapon type aside from marksman / sniper rifle, that is suddenly mostly unusable upon entering a match (at night / fog).

( i suppose you could argue dragons breath ammo in rain, but, rain is temporary)

They cant tell players if it’s night before entering, so…

The options after that are: find another main weapon (time consuming, crapshoot), loot a player (time consuming, dangerous), leave (match was a waste, unfun) or just run second weapon (big disadvantage, probably)
Solution: take scope off for remainder of match, but can only be done at carriage / boat - so it forces you to make a decision and live with it.

I really didn’t mean for this to be a big deal, just a quality of life thing to avoid the 4 annoying options above.

[hoary widget]

I'd be okay with being able to remove the scope at the start and not put it back on, but having a spot on the map where you can come back to and put a scope back on/off feels like going against Hunt's commitment based design

You actively chose to pick a weapon, it has clear advantages and disadvantages.

[hot vigil]

For me I think I have fundamental disagreement that scopes (any kind) becomes "mostly unusable" except for Dank-zone weather.
Which is more a detriment to the design of that weather condition.

[hoary widget]

The random chance for bad weather could be put under bad luck but i guess i can see why it frustrates people who bring scopes. I still think u should take the L in that case and maybe opt for an aperture variant (Crytek give us sparks aperture PLEASE)

[lean estuary]

Right, this is why I refuse to swap my weapons for other weapons on the map. Because of my commitment

[unborn dagger]

@glossy acorn bro you missed out with the cleaver in one of the last events

Although it is for the throwing axe

[lean estuary]

You could make the argument in this case, that no one should ever bring a scope..

[fathom rampart]

I really like how weather switches up visibility and sound circumstances. It looks great and, I think, can break stalemates. I do feel like scopes are okay at night, pretty bad in fog

[glossy acorn]

i know i have the throwing axe

but i want a more simple looking cleaver without all that junk on it and a heavy knife

[hot vigil]

Yeah, I can agree on that, I call rain for "fair fog" lol
Feel like Dank-Zone is like, normal fog (so bad) and then it can get worse.

[hoary widget]

I think scopes, particularely snipers, are poorly designed and not well implemented into Hunt. If i were being extremely petty i'd reply saying "good riddance" but as much as I don't like it I have to think within the game's box and acknowledge scopes need to counted into a balance discussion.

That said, this whole talk of scopes having some kine of disadvantage is just hilarious. They dominate so hard in their respective range it's not even funny. If you refuse to play by the sniper scope's strengths then thats on you, its nonsense at that point to call for improvements that would enforce a playstyle the gun is not meant to be strong at in the first place.

I'm just preaching into the choir but if you dont want to deal with these "issues" then just pick an iron sights variant.

[hot vigil]

So solution: Instead of making scopes modular.
Just make weather less intense.

• Fog: Lighten the density of fog slightly, have it have "waves" of thick fog roll over the map every now and then.
• Night: Fine as it is.
• Rain: Fine as it is (when it finally gonna work again lol).
• Serpent Moon: Fine at it is.
• Inferno (normal and night): Fine at it is.
• Dank Zone: Just remove, it was a mistake.

[hoary widget]

^

The wildcard weather types should be in their own contract imo but i understand why they probably arent doing that in the future anymore

@timid sentinel #game-ideas message I genuinely can't tell if this is a meme post or not but this idea would be so incredibly game breaking I can't take it serious.

[fathom rampart]

Yeah, I think saying ‘then just use a non scoped / aperture gun’ is a bit missing the point -

It feels like a game design flaw to not have ANY good option for a certain gun / weather combo.

[fathom rampart]

I have thought of rolling fog as a solution- i would be fine with that.

[hoary widget]

Like i said i stand behind my opinion that scopes, especially snipers, are poorly implemented.

I actually think they shouldn't exist in the first place

[hot vigil]

I did like Hunt before scopes, it was a simpler time and actually somewhat lessen the power of long ammo

[hoary widget]

Marksman and Deadeye scopes are fine imo

They make you get to midrange which is where Hunt has the most engaging fights besides close range

[lean estuary]

I guess you wouldn’t care about this feature then?

[hoary widget]

Considering I play the game too and have to share the sandbox with people who want to use scopes every single balance change concerns me

It affects the game, not just a specific group

[lean estuary]

Worth saying here - we aren’t saying scopes aren’t strong “in their respective range”…they are… we’re talking about when they aren’t IN their respective range

[hoary widget]

I am aware. I am also saying that that isn't an issue as much as its a downside of a scope

Bad weather is a slightly different topic, like i said

[hot vigil]

We could also slightly adjust them in general.
This is how I would do it:
ADS: 2.2x -> 1.5x
Deadeye: 5.2x -> 3x
Aperture: 8.4x -> 5x
Marksman: 8.4X -> 6x
Sniper: 11.2x -> 8x

Ofc all with +/- adjustments.

[fathom rampart]

This really is all just because you don’t know if you’re walking into a night / weather map or not.
I understand why they can’t tell people beforehand because so few players will choose that (weather/ night maps.)

[lean estuary]

This is about the interaction of scopes and bad weather

[split linden]

reducing ironsight zoom would widen the gap even more

[hot vigil]

Well, in my suggestion ADS got reduced less than any of the scopes.

[split linden]

scope zoom has diminishing returns for a computer game

the difference between 4x and 8x is absolutely massive, the difference between 8x and 12x is not big at all

[hot vigil]

I can see that, but still, 0.7x loss in ADS for a 3.2x loss for sniper seems like a fair trade.

[split linden]

that makes ironsights lose way more than you think

and sniper scopes lose way less than you think

[hot vigil]

I guess

Then it can be tweaked further, point was just to lessen the zoom for snipers

So they ain't as polarizing

[split linden]

maybe, i don't really know

it's one of those areas where we can theorise for ages but our suggestions won't really matter

all we can do is complain about it, and crytek will come up with their own solution as usual

(if they address it at all, they might think it's fine)

[hot vigil]

Sure, but that could be said by everything then haha

[chilly nova]

Ya know what I've always been sick of with this game? People's only strategy for gunfights is to get a surprise kill on your partner and then body camp. Only strat and gets really old.

[lean estuary]

I know it’s different on PC also, but I really barely encounter snipers on console

[split linden]

yeah i suppose, I genuinely think that suggestions-ideas channel is just a containment channel

some ideas might slip through the cracks but for the most part what crytek are listening for are complaints more than suggestions

[hot vigil]

I suggested the Berthier and it got added, so check-mate!

Jokes aside, there are many not well throughout suggestions here.
More so this ain't a democracy as much we like to believe so, but at the end of the day, Dennis (and the other designers) do what they think they are best.
And no hate, but some the things we've gotten goes VERY MUCH against what I think is healthy for the game.

[lean estuary]

What are your biggest complaints?

[hot vigil]

List is long but:

• State of long ammo
• State of necro
• State of custom ammo (which have been said to be looked at now so yay!)
• State of frag bomb
• State of traits cost
• State of uninspired weapon stat distribution
• State of ping limit
  and most importantly!
• State of no Burgess Folding shotgun

Shotgun in question

And also just the direction of encourage rapid fire weapon/playstyles.

[lean estuary]

The Burgess folder is awesome

What’s wrong with the state of long ammo?

[hot vigil]

Very very VERY strong with little drawback.
Meta game is all about long ammo and they are very lenient and easy weapons to use, that really can make up for bad shots.

And you see it reflected in how health bars are built, how restoration is always a feature for events and so on.

But to give an example:
A Vetterli can two-tap your upper-body at 66m, that is decent.
A Lebel can two-tap your arm at 56m!

Game have been out for 6 years and Mosin is STILL the meta gun, nothing have come close except for Lebel that got a "hidden buff" with the long ammo rework.

[split linden]

i mostly just think the main blunder of this game is the general powercreep

[lean estuary]

Yeah the arm shots are a puzzle…doesn’t seem like they should kill you, but what do you do?

[hot vigil]

Well, lower damage on long ammo and up the multiplier on headshots.
Make long ammo the long distance headclicker, fast bullets ammo.

[chilly nova]

This game will stay small with such a passive playstyle.

[hot vigil]

what?

[thin remnant]

#game-ideas message Someone had this idea years ago and everyone hated it just as much. Surely it's a joke, I don't see how anyone would genuinely want this. It would look goofy af and be really annoying to play with.
You could just ask for a dramatic recoil increase lol

[lean estuary]

Yeah what

[lean estuary]

Also, people can fire the nitros standing up IRL, it’s fine (I think there were some broken clavicles from Nitros used in WWI while being fired from a prone position, but we won’t have that problem )

[thin remnant]

^

[vital fractal]

The .700 NE has less kinetic momentum in joules than a .50 BMG

I believe

So, yeah, it’s not exactly a shoulder breaker

[hot vigil]

Also

Voodoo juice hunters

[vital fractal]

That’s even assuming the nitro ingame is a .700

Also big’s list is about right, with some missing exceptions

Also

We are missing original lore lmaoooo

Stuff was getting real icky spooky at first now it’s a caravan of mercs just shooting at eachother and the stories are now like it’s a damn accepted fact the bayou is haunted

At least before there was some mysticism to it

[chilly nova]

You guys will argue with anyone that's critical of Hunt. It cracks me up. Can you honestly not interpret the simple sentence I wrote?

Honestly, don't need to hear any more from either of you. Such predictable responses

[hot vigil]

Just trying to figure out what you refereed to with "such a passive playstyle", like the game in general? a weapon class? a variant? :)

[lean estuary]

Haha yeah I don’t know wtf you said…what is happening in this Discord

Why do you think the game will stay small with a “passive” playstyle

(Like….I AM critical of Hunt!)

[thin remnant]

#game-ideas message @bold valley This seems interesting, but I have some questions. How long does it take to teleport to it? Is there an animation that you could be killed in? Is there a long animation to come out of it? Do you ALWAYS teleport to it in dark sight and so can't use dark sight properly if there's one nearby, do you have to use dark sight then click on it? If so, can you place multiple at once and pick which one to teleport to? Is there any limit as to where you can place them?

sorry for wall of text

[bold valley]

I figure it'd just use the same rules as shadow leap during the event that had it, only instead of telefragging undead, you telefrag a little figurine.

Having to place it like an ammo box means you can only teleport to places a hunter would be able to go

(to avoid getting on unaccessible roofs or w/e)

[thin remnant]

ah ok i see i didnt play in that event

so it kind of works like the serpent trait

[bold valley]

Ya. During the event if you had that pact, then any undead within 50m that you aimed darksight at, you lose health for a few seconds then ZAP you'd appear at their location and the undead would die messily

It was mostly useful for leapfrogging your way across large distances fairly quickly, and being a quick and quiet way to kill meatheads

In the case of placing a little statue, I am imagining it as a way to prep a 1 way escape or flanking position beforehand

[empty oasis]

Just make shadowleap a burn trait imo

[lean estuary]

I like the little statue/figurine idea…it would be cool if they incorporated more burn items, like totems, into the different more “magical” traits

[icy ingot]

]

[dusky tapir]

hmm. interesting observation

the weird thing is that most of the current meta options ( dolch / mosin / nitro ) have been in the game ever since its original release some 5-6 years ago

can't say I noticed any new entries powercreeping the rest of the arsenal

[steel comet]

This has been pretty much unchanged. Before slug got nerfed multiple times that was pretty more frequent and also officer carbine have been popular every now and then in high MMR.

Anyway, the only power creep I can potentially think of is cyclone buffs if that continues to happen, it'll be a problem.
Cent dumdum isn't competitive in the same way it's HV ammo is.
Cent dumdum is a popular topic so that's why I'm bringing it up.

Uppermat maybe, it got double buff when only one of them was enough.

But it's probably fine, people would still rather just bring an uppercut for convenience

[hoary widget]

Cool shotgun

[willow burrow]

problem with power creep isnt as much releasing new guns that replace old best guns, but rather making new guns that are very close to what the old gun is but significantly better making the old gun obsolete, idk what new gun took the place of old gun by being better?

I think hunt showdown team did a pretty good job of making the new guns diverse enough and applying so much drawback to new designs to the point that their usefulness is questionable

(like krag)

[steel comet]

Giving it more damage would pretty much ruin the balance of krag.

It shoots fast and its a long ammo centennial basically

[willow burrow]

but kentennial has got more ammo and hv

[steel comet]

Outside of 25m and centennial is a pea shooter to body

[willow burrow]

it kills head up to 1 kilometer

[steel comet]

If everything was about headshots people would just run springfield HV

costs nothing and can click head

[willow burrow]

they wouldnt they would literally run kent hv

which they do if theyre good enough

[steel comet]

They can also just run mosin and get both parts since ammo isn't really a problem

World ammo is common, you can steal ammo from opponents and you can also bring your own ammo boxes.

[willow burrow]

conclusion krag bad

[queen jungle]

Says the pro

[steel comet]

How would you make it "not bad"?

I think it's perfectly fine. You can headshot way farther away than cent ever could.

[willow burrow]

what does that even mean

[steel comet]

Cent got less than 200m effective range

[willow burrow]

its 180

ur not gonna play above that range theres rarely line of sight and with 600m/s any bump on the road can make u miss

[steel comet]

There's common sightlanes

I can probably think of more

the blanchett crossing, catching people in lockbay

seeing people by supply cart or by the beetle tree (also supply cart location)

There's also teh tree south west of healing to slaughter

[willow burrow]

really stretching there and on blanket theres a small house trees in the way to where u pointed it would have to be on the elevation extra 20 meters further

the only one here that works is like beetle tree to tower and its not very good, very uneven terrain too ur not reliably hitting that with 600m/s anyway being the point

[steel comet]

I just did sightlanes, in reality you can see pretty far along the whole pitching coast

You get soft headshots from fort carmick roof to bradley

[willow burrow]

when I say line of sight I dont mean u can see a pixel for a second

[steel comet]

that's just one compound to another

[willow burrow]

particularly when u have to lead with ur 600m/s ammo

[steel comet]

Take another shot then, if you don't hit first shot you'll figure out if you overly lead or not

[signal silo]

#feedback message

"Waah, solo self-revive is too slow." Boo hoo. His teammate didn't have a button to just stand back up. He had to do that specifically while being stressed out knowing you could stand up at any second. No team player is sitting there counting the seconds knowing when your timer is going off. All they have is the stress of knowing you're going to get back up again and they can't make any mistakes or get pushed by another team, etc.

#game-ideas message

Nope. We don't need solos getting chunks back. The devs were specifically talking about how letting people get chunks back was making it unfair for every but solos. Solos benefitted from it far more than team players. If a solo dies, they should stay dead.

[floral nova]

It would prevent its use as a shotgun, rushing and quick scoping. It doesn't feel like a big and heavy gun. This weapon can shoot zoomed from afar and it is used at CQ like a Romero. Then people are afraid of side aiming a sniper...

[idle folio]

On the flip side, people would be confident in rushing a nitro after a missed shot which really sucks for a gun that is changed to force being at longer ranges. Imagine you went blind for a couple seconds after every sniper shot, how that would affect peoples actions in combat.

[signal mural]

@signal silo The Martini-Henry already has a melee variant which is more powerful than a claw or sledge type.

[dusky tapir]

The Martini-Henry's unlock tree imo feels quite padded already

[topaz falcon]

I would love to see an upgrade that allows you to see recent hunter footprint and direction while in darksight.

[dusky tapir]

I see how it could be cool but it's also giving away a lot of information with no real counter

[sage lichen]

I would really love if i had the option to not be forced into dead lobbies.
the dynamic is so unenjoyable

[vital fractal]

It’d be a bit nice if the guns actually moved a bit more naturally on screen

Rn they can seem a bit fixed on screen compared to other shooters

[hot vigil]

You mean in general or ADS?
Because they used to have way more movement when walking in ADS

[dusky tapir]

a lot of the movement was toned down, if you look at early HUNT footage

especially when walking

https://youtu.be/giguwjdoidU?feature=shared&t=213

[hot vigil]

Oh

[vital fractal]

That looks so much better than static, maybe if they made it a little more modern but adjusting flow- but much better tbh

[vital fractal]

Like head movement when walking, where the weapon is on screen relative to movement (your arms are not synced to where you are facing, so reflecting that), reflecting the fact some of these weapons weigh a shit ton- so some extra sway here and there, and especially after some movement etc

[dusky tapir]

Red Orchestra did something similar - but that game has a very decisive goal to deter moving while taking aim. They want you to stand still before taking the shot - which makes perfect sense in a game that's even more lethal than HUNT

I understand why they'd get rid of some ( NOT ALL ) of the model sway for something that plays like HUNT

[radiant river]

Would also fix the external crosshair issue

Sort of

[dusky tapir]

you still know where the point of aim would roughly land - even for things such as sprinting or running around

[rotund obsidian]

I've mentioned an aiming system like insurgency or battlebit where you can swing the gun around which shifts the aim point but I doubt it would work as well with non automatic weapons tbh

[radiant river]

Would also make hip fire feel extremely bad to use

[lean estuary]

I would love if they added back in more pathway creating and obstructing tools (like picking locks, boarding up windows or random doors, cutting wire…)

[radiant river]

Way more interesting than instakill traps

[vital fractal]

I mean, considering how accurate some guns are with hipfire that’s not bad

In a game that’s supposed to prioritize precise shots, I think that’d help

I mean, it’s kinda ridiculous how some fights evolve into >jump >turn >press fire but literally turn before the bullet even has a chance to leave the barrel >repeat

That also brings up the lack of inertia when jump moving too, which is weird

[analog sigil]

#game-ideas message A revolver shotgun would be the strongest shotgun in the game, but would be good if it was expensive enough like crown and king

[queen jungle]

Fanning your way through any building with shotgun chain pistol you say? 🤔

[edgy sparrow]

Na should be 3 slots

Making it single action or double action with a heavy trigger would balance it out

Having a low rate of fire

A sawed of variant like the Ghoul has in the Fallout series would also be great

[vital fractal]

So basically it’d be a medium/short barrel specter, with lower capacity and doesn’t need bullet grubber on account of the fact it’ll have a faster reload/cylinder

I don’t see how it adds anything other than being “cool”

*if single action

Or just be a better rival with three shots if double action

[hot vigil]

Biggest issue that historically revolver shotguns weren't a thing in the 1890's

[edgy sparrow]

I think it would be a great addition. Adding a 20 Gage ammotype with less damage but less spray. No need for bulletgrabber, unique reload.

The Avto or the Alamo weren’t a thing either. I would like to see more weapons like the bin lance or Alamo that look cool and still will fit the theme

[hot vigil]

Okay I will correct myself, there were revolver shotguns, but in 1839.

That wouldn't have swing cylinder

And VERY rare as only 225 of them were ever made.

Just minor detail ofc

[edgy sparrow]

I think crytek should start doing there own unique weapons and variants again

[hot vigil]

I think they need to chill a little and actually balance the current rooster of weapons lol

[edgy sparrow]

Yeah you right especially special ammo

[vital fractal]

There is already 20 gauge, 12 gauge, and 10 gauge in game and they are not differentiated

Again, all it would add is “is revolver shotgun” and I don’t think weapon additions that don’t add something to the game beyond style or act to serve a niche are a good idea

[quaint cloak]

damn did I miss something

which one is the 20 ga?

oh, Lemat?

[quaint cloak]

yes they should, as long as they aren't some anime poisoned nonsense

[tiny pivot]

Your opinions are your own but as an individual I wanna say this reeks of 2014 lol

It is genuinely difficult to watch and reeks of incredible amounts of view bob

If it was a toggle maybe

[quaint cloak]

probably needs to be somewhere in between....some short twitch like movements, and very subtle sway with breathing....maybe just more realistic animation overall?

[dusky tapir]

but why

and I say this as somoene who literally makes more money when more animations are added to a game

[tiny pivot]

the amount of movement in that early footage is incredibly distracting

and overall the weapon movement is too

[quaint cloak]

yea it's not necessary to change, it's ok the way it is now.

I wouldn't mind more weapon and camera movement though, if it dampens the flicky twitchy competitive gaming culture demands that players keep pushing

I really miss some of the old effects, Dark Sight looks fucking cool in that 12 minute demo

[tiny pivot]

i think from game dev perspective the dark sight was a problem with clarity

i cannot think of the game off the top of my head but there's a lot of games that have similar effects where it's kind of blurry and hard to see

and even hunt's current vision in dark vision could be considered bad clarity but at this point its intentional design that like

the darksight boost shadows of players jump around a bit so you cant guess exactly where someone is, and the clues jiggle a little bit bt get much clearer as you get closer

[vital fractal]

Yes

[vital fractal]

I mean I ain’t asking for extreme levels of movement animations, I’m just asking for something that isn’t on rails lol- that video posted above is a decent basis, that I think could be implemented again and maybe beyond aesthetics could function to help stifle a bit of the ridiculous jump aim fights or even ridiculous hipfire on some weapons

[quaint cloak]

yea this is what I'm talking about with the twitchy flicky comp. gaming things = "jump aim fights", so realistic motion could dampen that. This may upset the adderall enjoyers

[quaint cloak]

looking at wikipedia it's got that as a 16-20 ga, nice

[spiral moon]

@hybrid forum

While I ageee with you, I’ll have you know I run Alamo often

And love it

Lol

[hybrid forum]

as far as I know, you are an endangered species

[spiral moon]

Yeah

But it’s still just a better Romeo

[hybrid forum]

I wouldn't say so. The normal romero already promotes a playstyle of shooting once, then going to cover. Alamo shares the same playstyle, as it's not fast enough to act like a specter/slate, where you can dish out more than 1 shot without dying

and when you go to cover, those miliseconds don't really matter

[spiral moon]

Oh really?

So other players can’t run?

You’d prefer a longer reload because?—

You get to carry another ammo type you won’t use-

interesting.

[hybrid forum]

in my experience, I've never needed this extra time

[spiral moon]

Prepare for every possible outcome

I agree with your suggestion but in either case it’s a Romeo+

[hybrid forum]

if the enemy is close enough I have to switch to my secondary anyways since my alamo isn't loaded yet

sure, those seconds are an upgrade

but it's not fast enough to matter

[spiral moon]

Every second matters-

Have you not played HS?-

[hybrid forum]

hs?

[hybrid forum]

precisely. You shoot once, they run after you, and you have to switch to your sidearm because that darn alamo won't rechamber in time

[spiral moon]

Hunt showdown-

Follow along smh

[spiral moon]

I don’t use CQC often

But when I do the Alamo has always been better then the normal Romero

Every time Lol

[hybrid forum]

tbh I'd use the alamo more if the animation wasn't so ugly now

[spiral moon]

It’s about the same

Just longer

Now albeit

I do use mostly sparks so

Take that with a grain of salt

[vital fractal]

Sorry but it ain’t strictly better

The special ammo back up with a talon is just so good

[spiral moon]

Look

I run snipers mostly so

Ppl with Romero’s is what I call a red target-

I don’t run them often

[vital fractal]

I mean, I have no issue if I know the sniper is in compound to push them with a Romero

Of course no one is going to be able to say ones better than the other if they are in their long range vs short range environments

[unborn dagger]

@oak meadow Why do you want blanks in the shooting range?

[oak meadow]

I was practicing muscle memory in order to capitalize on melee-ing someone when they are within range, with pistol or whatever, and at same time I want to ensure I practice accurate aiming. So if I make accurate shots I end up shooting down dummies not allowing me to practice the melee aspect. While current state works, I think blanks will make practice far more effective. Moreover it can also be great for target practicing with friends, who move around and shoot back at you. If I hit a friend at range now, in the head I finish them off quite fast, they will have to respawn (downtime in practicing) and repeat.

[raw vessel]

please give back Night Time map frequency 🙏 and please give back the ability to retire hunters after level 25 🙏

[analog sigil]

@rotund kettle What does R in KD/R mean

[rotund obsidian]

ratio? dunno what the message ur replying to is tho

[analog sigil]

by what ratio

[rotund obsidian]

kill to death ratio, I assume?

idk the original context tho

[analog sigil]

why would he type it like KD/R

[rotund obsidian]

oh idk

[analog sigil]

literally latest suggestion

[rotund kettle]

fixed it, idk why i put it with a /

think i saw it in another game or something

[analog sigil]

I just asked because average kd also exists

[rotund kettle]

the r is ratio

[analog sigil]

the average of kd from a window of games could be used to calculate rank which is what I thought about

as in kd/r where r stands for a number of rounds

[rotund kettle]

sorry for the confusion

[empty oasis]

@dusky tapir #game-ideas message

Just make it a low evil chuckle

@minor fjord #game-ideas message
You are running loadouts well outside your means then and not taking free hunters into account.
You can do most all the challenges that I can think of with sub $450 loadouts when you buy everything and much cheaper if you adjust to the free loadouts

The economy is actually in a good place right now to start draining the massive cash reserves of some players while still allowing newer/less skilled/prestige players to stay afloat

[analog sigil]

The economy is pretty permissive to run S tier loadouts that make money with a winrate of over like 37%

#feedback message EAC is the most comprehensive anticheat after Faceit anticheat

Battleyes most expensive version comes close but isnt quite there

[minor fjord]

As a solo maybe.

[analog sigil]

Nah you get like 1k+ from a lobby wipe win as a trio when u loot people

[minor fjord]

When you loot but that means you gotta hold back from using consumables

Plus you're expecting everyone to lobby wipe?

You expect someone with under 1k/d to lobby wipe in trios?

At most I've been able to kill one duo team by myself. I can't lobby wipe, I use plenty of consumables and I don't run around the whole map trying to find dead bodies

So looting dead bodies for money only works when I'm actually being carried

And also lobby wiping is so situational

And also that is literally just pro thinking

You're 5-6 star playing solo and make 2k each hunt? Good for you

I'm not like that.

[pulsar canopy]

maybe my napkin math is really wrong (im not good at it), but winning roughly only every 3rd game, spending 1k+ (unless you have a different idea about s tier) on loadout will put you on the downward trajectory money wise, you'll be bleeding dem bucks pretty fast.

[minor fjord]

No one said they're spending 1k per loadout

[pulsar canopy]

s tier loadout though ?

[minor fjord]

I spend about 200 for consumables, 100 for tools, then I get like a centennial sniper or vetterli marksman with fast ammo

And either a pax or a conversion

That's like 300 for the main weapon, 80 for the sidearm

And you're already at the same amount of money you make for main bounty + rotjaw

You lose that loadout for 2-3 times before gaining a bounty

And you're asking me how I'm broke

Is this an s tier loadout?

[pulsar canopy]

i mean, i'm not arguing with you, but with the initial point made by m3tso, my bad for misunderstanding, should've tagged the message properly

[minor fjord]

Right now the only way I see to make reliable money no matter what is to get a barebones loadout and go solo

Romero or springfield with no sidearm, 1 consumable and like health kit and knife

I think if you go with this you maybe even out more or less if you manage to get all 3 clues

Idk if I'm wrong but I can tell you that me running a mediocre build and losing money on it is crazy. I have a friend that is constantly broke like me since the change and he hasn't stopped playing

All he wants to do is run stupid but fun builds, and he does get kills with them but the money gain from actually extracting every 3rd hunt is just not enough

So like me he's forced to play free hunters with a romero. WHICH IS NOT FUN.

Another person I know say they grinded/got carried their way up to 50k so he could play whatever loadout he wanted and during that month all he played was free hunters. Said it was the least fun he's ever had in hunt

Plus having challenges that actually give out money would make people who wouldn't do the challenges otherwise use specific weapons only to complete them

Therefore you'd see less standard loadouts

[empty oasis]

Vetterli marksman with fast ammo

You just added $145 over a base vetterli. Doing things like this for every match is where your money problems are coming from, not what you earn being too little

If you are under 20k them there is no reason to spend 100 for tools since your melee and medkit are free.

200 on consumables is also high cost

[minor fjord]

I run what others recommend me to run. I like playing slower and more ranged

So the gun maybe yeah I can recract the high vel ammo from the centennial

But choke, health, knife and throwing axes are useful

And then for consumables I take a weak regen, weak stamina, weak antidote and a frag

[empty oasis]

Cool, Springfield hv is $103

[minor fjord]

I don't wanna run a springfield

Why should I be forced to play guns I don't like

If I do well with the guns I like

[empty oasis]

But you aren't. You're losing money with the guns you like because they're too expensive for your performance

[minor fjord]

So should I just not run guns I like ever then?

So I can save up money? Instead of being rewarded for using your weapon well

You should just keep it in the stash out of gear fear

And never buy it unless you're prepared to lose it

[empty oasis]

Save up money to run the guns you like. You're being punished for losing the weapons and hunter, not using them well

[minor fjord]

Who says I don't use it well? In the end it doesn't matter what you run it's all about positioning, awareness, placing your shots well and map knowledge

I could lobby wipe for all I care until a solo comes and kills us both with a romero

Me and my friend legit got 7 kills once and only lost everything cuz of a shitty trade between me and the enemy

[empty oasis]

Ok? Kills don't matter(looting aside). Only getting, defending, and extracting with the bounty matters

[minor fjord]

As if you can even extract without clearing the lobby first.

Of course everyone comes towards you

They have your direct gps position at all times

Why would they not come to you

[empty oasis]

They do and they will. Your goal is to get out by any means necessary, not to kill everyone

[minor fjord]

We're still deviating from my main point

You're saying I'm broke because of a skill issue pretty much

Even though extracting every 3rd raid is like the most average shit ever

[empty oasis]

No, I'm saying it's because you're running stuff to expensive for the money you generate

[minor fjord]

Yeah which is basically saying skill issue

[empty oasis]

Ok, sure

[minor fjord]

You're not good enough to run good weapons so you shouldn't

Honestly people who have above 50k should just not have a say in this

[empty oasis]

You're not good enough to run good weapons constantly so you shouldn't run them every match

I currently have 9k lmao

[minor fjord]

Is a scoped vetterli a good weapon

[empty oasis]

I consider it one, yes

[minor fjord]

I can't even afford a medium ammo build

[empty oasis]

But I also consider a Springfield marksman good

[minor fjord]

I need to run romeros and stuff under 100 all the time and I hate it. I hate being constrained to loadouts like this when I do get out with the bounty at an average level

Like it's not like I'm bad and I'm just broke cuz I don't win at all.

I'm broke and I do not understand why. I grab what I used to consider cheapish loadouts back in the day

Now they're expensive

That's all there is to it. I hate being broke at all times even though I perform well

Plus would like 2-4k bonus per week from challenges you complete (like killing hunters with certain damage type or weapon or ammo type) be THAT big of a deal?

It would at least let me run weapons I'm more comftable with more often

And give me better chances to actually get out

[empty oasis]

And then for consumables I take a weak regen, weak stamina, weak antidote and a frag

Thats $233 right there

For that same $233 you could buy Dusters,medkit, choke, and T. knives for tools along with a small vit,medpack, and 2 dynamite and still have $27 left over. That plus the extra $115 you wouldve spent on tools is $142
Now since you can get the dusters and medkit from the free hunter thats an extra $60 you save

We're already cheaper by $202 and we havent even gotten to the weapons

We'll go with the vet marksman/pax you mentioned
Dropping the ammo and scope saves $145. Personally, I'd drop the pax for a nagant since I dont think the Vetterli needs a sidearm in most cases due to its rof, dmg, and ammo pool. That's drop it by another $56

This would leave you with a loadout with similar capabilities to what you had and save you $403

$678 vs $275
You could lose this almost 2 and a half times to equal losing the previous loadout once

[minor fjord]

Yeah but the regen shot is super useful

Since there's a load of downtime sometimes in lower mmr

The regen can just full heal you without needing to use a kit

[empty oasis]

The weak regen isnt that bad tbf. You can swap it for the weak vit and its only $20 more. The stamina and frag are what kill your budget

They're $163 by themselves

[minor fjord]

Even like this if you just get a random sidearm and cheap utilities you still end up just barely making back your money on your 3rd-4th extract

[vital fractal]

Are you running solo or trios?

[minor fjord]

Duos usually

Sometimes solos

[vital fractal]

Solos is where the money is at

[minor fjord]

I run duos v trios sometimes

[vital fractal]

Nah

[minor fjord]

I know but I'm not a good player

[vital fractal]

Well to give reference

[minor fjord]

Just say it's a skill issue already

[vital fractal]

I am not a good player, my k/d is under 1 (true KD)

But I managed to amass a healthy budget by just spamming solo, and adopting an objective over fights mindset when I was farming cash

[minor fjord]

I mean yeah but it's boring. Also I do play solos but out of necesity

[vital fractal]

You gotta really push for the bounty instead of going for fights only, and be really smart with your loadout-

[minor fjord]

I know solos is where the money is at

And I don't like playing solos but I do it anyways because I need the money

And then my friend gets on and I lose all that 1.5k I made

When we play duos

You get me, hunts have to always go well for you to have an actual stable income

As it is rn

[vital fractal]

Heathen was giving good advice on actual cost items

Also, consider duo v duos instead of trios

Do you guys find yourselves usually surrounded when fighting trios?

[minor fjord]

No

[vital fractal]

What happens then?

[minor fjord]

I usually equalize the fights with my first shot

It's all downhill from there

[vital fractal]

So you usually get a kill off first?

[minor fjord]

I'm good at being sneaky. I get lots of ambush and positioning kills

Yeah

[vital fractal]

So you’re actually doing better than most players if you’re a 3 star

[minor fjord]

Maybe so

[vital fractal]

Now

[minor fjord]

I'm still 3 star

[vital fractal]

That’s 100% fine

Now

If you manage to usually get the first kill off

Imagine instead of having 2 others left, you play duos

Now that last guy is panicking because there is two of you and his only partner is dead

Utilizing that ability to get the first pick off is huge in duos, and will usually net in your win if you guys can capitalize on it

[minor fjord]

Thing is usually duos are harder to sneak up on like that. Trios stomp around more, are more careless

But I guess I have a bad teammate too, I mean he sits in a bush waiting for me to get the first kill off and then he gets into a full 50m sprint with a katana out

[vital fractal]

I mean ultimately you have to adapt, I’m not saying never play trios I’m just saying if you want PvP and want to stay in duos- this will help your win rate and may even help you learn skills to increase your stealth that will help in trios even if you think you’re stealthy already

[minor fjord]

Like yeah it's funny when he gets kills but

[vital fractal]

That’s pretty based but yeah

He’ll get killed

[minor fjord]

I just wanna make money man the pvp is side content that always gets put between me and money

[vital fractal]

Again, you need to set your goals before a match

Either you prioritize money

Or PvP

[minor fjord]

I mean no one's gonna give you the bounty for free

[vital fractal]

No, but get it fast enough and no one can contest you 🙂

That’s how I made mine

And don’t be afraid to run with the bounty, that comes with knowledge of the map and time

For example, when you have no stamina perks or shots follow this:

sprint until icon shows you’re out of breath
walk 8 steps, icon goes away
walk 8 more steps, stamina full again
repeat as you run out of stamina again

Now, not everyone in 3 stars/4 star lobbies know this- so they end up spending more time than necessary to walk losing time or too little time and sprinting far less costing time to the extract

[minor fjord]

I still just don't see the problem with getting like 2-4k bonus per week for going out of your way to complete all challenges

[vital fractal]

Because it’s tied to blood bonds, which they don’t want the challenges to become a near mandatory source of income because then players will make too much in terms of blood bonds + players already complain when challenges are mandatory (events)- and if they cut those, you should’ve seen the uproar and backlash that occurred when they knocked down blood bonds last time

[minor fjord]

What about instead of getting a random gun

Just some money then

Per challenge level

[vital fractal]

That’s what the ritual is for

4 per day

[minor fjord]

Bro idk how many times I actually got money out of the ritual

[vital fractal]

Money? No

Random gear? Yes

[minor fjord]

That I won't use

[vital fractal]

You can’t be picky if you’re poor man

That’s part of hunt

Again, you gotta commit until you’re able to be picky

You sound like you have enough skill to pull off solo even if you don’t like it

[minor fjord]

It's funny how people say losing your hunter is punishment

My hunter is literally nothing. I literally never got my hunters above lvl 15

Idk how it'd be a punishment to someone who couldn't care less about it

[minor fjord]

Yeah I dislike solo but I do play it and I do win

It's not like I don't

I just dislike it

[vital fractal]

Well, grind it until you don’t have to play it that much

I personally enjoy solo because I can engage in PvP whenever I want or avoid it whenever I want

Yes hunt is fun with friends but with friends you gotta just go with the flow

And your loadouts gotta be, as the guy above said, cheaper than what you have already many

A frag a game is way too much to be spending rn, especially with consumable boxes in the world

Each clue is 50 HD, a free hunter has just about everything you need

Just run those, whatever guns they have, and focus on money first

Then splurge when your katana wielding friend comes on but keep it simple, so when he tries to charge a nitro in a straight line with dusters on an open field, the loss doesn’t sting so much

[minor fjord]

Yeah he's a fun fellow

He likes watching people panic spray as he vcs cloaker noises

It's funny

[vital fractal]

That isn’t effective but it is funny, and of course part of why low MMR is fun

People do funny things

[minor fjord]

Of course it's not effective

Usually my job is to just make a way for him to go melee everyone left

Sometimes it works

Sometimes he has to pull out the gat

It is what it is

[vital fractal]

Hey, if he can’t land direct hits- has he ever tried explosive bolts or frag arrows or fire bolts?

If he can’t hit but can land status effects, that’d be deadly if you both work together and push

Just an option

[minor fjord]

I know but this is way off topic now

Bro was effectively sniping with an iron sight martini

[vital fractal]

Fair, have a good one mate

You have options to make money, even if you dislike them, they work as they’ve worked for us all

[minor fjord]

Alright well, I'm still sticking with marksman vetterli cuz I need the scope helps a lot with headshots

But everything else is whatever I guess.

[vital fractal]

Honestly, a cheaper but effective item is Winfield Marksmen with HV if you’re going for heads

But yeah if you can afford it, the vetterli marksmen will cover just about every range inside hs range

[sand kiln]

@stark crystal deleted your post because it is Feedback and not really a suggestion, also you already posted in #feedback so it's ok.

[minor fjord]

I mean yeah ig. Winfield is my highest kill gun ever. Just annoying the normal winnie has no scope

[vital fractal]

It’s for balance, I mean a scoped marksmen with 15+1 capacity? That’s a bit ridiculous lol

[minor fjord]

Ik

Winnie swift is actually insane for me sometimes. The amount of kills I got on that gun last summer

Man

[hardy coral]

It would literally not matter.

I've only ever used, or seen used, that 15 round mag with levering (the marksman has nerfed levering).

[vital fractal]

Interesting name, I’m sure it does not express a stance that would lead to this post

[hardy coral]

Scopes are basically trash because the move penalty on them, the weapons that were targeted with this nerf are OP because they are long ammo bolties.

Winnie marksman you can't use the winnie part of it (follow up shots) because you're moving at half speed and so are an easy shot/headshot.

[vital fractal]

🗿

Ok

[hardy coral]

Okay what?

Mosin sniper and lebel marksman were and are still strong because they are long ammo bolties with the advantage of the scope for camping and sitting at extreme range. The deadeye scoped and marksman scoped guns otherwise are trash due to this move penalty because they are close to mid range weapons where you need to be a moving target.

Deadeye is basically a side-grade to irons if they didn't have a move penalty because of the loss of peripheral vision and non-smooth ADS transition.

[dusky tapir]

that's pretty much the point - deadeye's peripheral visions' sacrifice is not as bad as iron sights

[hardy coral]

wdym? It's massive.

[tardy rapids]

Nah lebel sniper sucks the scope is bad bullet velocity is decent though

[hardy coral]

Lebel Marksman was the most busted gun in the game before the movement changes and it's still bullshit.

[tardy rapids]

Nah good on the movement nerf and scope nerf. Snipers are already annoying to deal with

[hardy coral]

They nerfed all of them and movement nerf doesn't matter vs snipers you're engaging past 150+ metres anyway

It just made deadeyes and the shorter ranged marksman guns total shit.

[tardy rapids]

By all means explain to me how nerfing a long range camping when was a bad idea.

[hardy coral]

Because it was a bad overall change, the only objectionable guns at that point were mosin sniper and lebel marksman who were far too versatile with full movement speed while scoped. The movement nerf doesn't nerf long range sniping much and it ruined the short ranged scoped guns which weren't unbalanced.

Pushed those two guns into only doing camping and basically removed the rest.

Would've been better to functionally remove the long ammo bolty marksman/snipers and add a new scope class with the movement penalty, rest were fine.

I wanna be able to use Nagant Precision Deadeye again 😭

[vital fractal]

I mean if you have $29(?) HD I have good news for you, you just gotta unlock it, then equip it after purchasing an instance from the arsenal

Boom, you can use it

You even have a few ammo choices to go along with it

🗿

[hardy coral]

It's trash so why use it

Makes you a super easy shot for what is a sidegrade to irons.

Tiny scope FOV with low zoom and blurred rest of screen makes it a sidegrade to open and aware irons, why the hell did it get hit with 50% move penalty?

[vital fractal]

Considering other players have no real issue at the top levels of play using sniper scopes, marksmen scopes, and dead eyes in close combat

I don’t think it’s the gun that’s the limiting factor in 90% of the cases of this game, in reasonable circumstances

[hardy coral]

Yeah I haven't seen them used by "top players" other than just for variety and they obviously suck there. At higher levels movement matters more and cutting yours in half while ADS is a throw in close-mid.

Playing top 5 into 6 stars nobody used deadeye or marksman (other than lebel) and when they did they were easy kills.

You are playing this close-mid scopes to hold tight angles (you should be jiggling them but can't with the move penalty) or hardscoping to get rounds downrange quick with little vision disruption (you should be strafing but can't because of movement reduction).

[vital fractal]

Damn, maybe I should bring this reality into the reality I am in because that’d be very nice

[sterile beacon]

This was pretty funny

[lean estuary]

Grog are you on console?

[hardy coral]

Still doesn't explain it because on console you wanna be strafing all the time to make yourself super hard to hit.

When melee is OP you know it's scuffed

[frozen crater]

console hunt looks like an entirely different beast compared to pc hunt

[hardy coral]

Basically shotguns, fanning, dualies, levering and melee because actually aiming is very difficult.

[frozen crater]

I wonder if 5-6 star console hunt has the same meta weapon/ammo combinations as pc

[hardy coral]

Once you get that high I imagine it becomes semi-similar but tilted away from long ammo to FMJ compact and medium rifles.

[tiny pivot]

#game-ideas message
Yes and no, it might be subjective but I kinda already think that one handed pistols don't have too bad of recoil

But like, if you balance it like that and exclude fanning, then I guess maybe?

It's hard because there's so many variables - like does this trait reduce the usage/relevance of precision weapons, which already virtually don't exist? Who knows

On that note, Scottfield Swift PRecision pls

[vital fractal]

Yes but scopes are still powerful, marksmen, sniper, and dead eye both in pc and console

[vital fractal]

Mosin Dolch P, yes

[lean estuary]

Yes, this…the head clicking is pretty difficult….unless some people are using M&Kb

[lean estuary]

Yeah agree…I was just going to ask if you’re a mouse and keyboard guy

[tiny pivot]

I honestly feel hunt is already so niche on PC I am genuinely curious on how it performs on console

[lean estuary]

It’s still honestly almost all over the place, except I don’t encounter tooo many scoped weapon users….lots of cheaper weapons, and melee weapons

[lean estuary]

When you actually get into a match, it still runs and looks pretty good (even on my old xbox).

[tiny pivot]

I mean community wise, but yeah visuals I'm sure it's fine

[lean estuary]

Like playstyle?

[tiny pivot]

Yeah, and also like actual playercount because I don't feel like Hunt is a huge game as much as we all wish it was

[lean estuary]

Yeah..i’d look up the player count, I’m honestly not sure

[vital fractal]

Nope, KnM on console is cheating- and I’m not that sweaty to need cheats

Also console doesn’t really have reliable player counts to see apparently, only crytek has the numbers there

Which sucks when we have balancing discussions, since those numbers can be helpful

I don’t like rainbow 6 but I do like how it shows pick rates of operators and sometimes gear

[fervent ermine]

They need to rework the trials, a few are bugged and the rest are heavily reliant on rng

This is super disappointing

Thought it would be fun to do it all again

Gonna be a hard pass with enemy's spawning out of bounds

[floral nova]

@rustic timber #game-ideas message

I've also proposed a similar thing

#game-ideas message

[rustic timber]

@floral nova It is such an annoyance when it happends. It kills the team too, for they are wasting time with reving, instead of holding the angle.

[worthy turret]

Lots of smurf accounts lately, im assuming they are ban evading and or just looking for lower MMR to shit on? People with 50 hours played running meta games and having crazy KDA with names that are about things in the game. Seems fishy to me

[hot vigil]

Not gonna happen

Sadly

[lean estuary]

@prime geyser Others and myself have suggested a change be made to pistol handling: you will always have two hands on your gun when using a pistol, for the sake of stability, unless the change (or certain traits) allows you to use your left hand for something else simultaneously, like holding a knife, or carrying a lantern, etc, at the cost of stability and increased sway and recoil effect on your (right) pistol hand

[rustic timber]

@vital fractal Pure PC gamer here, but feel the need to correct you. If the console accept the use (playstation/xbox - they do, even license out their software for it), and Crytek has no rules against it (which they don't). Then it ain't cheating, it is a choice. On the same line as you saying someone was cheating, because he had a different loadout then you. :p But I know that a lot of console users feel very passionate about that stuff. I was once in a hunt showdown group on facebook, where a guy admitting to use a farming simulator wheel to play hunt, because of his back paralysis (and a kd of 0.7), got banned, and labeled a cheater by these crazy people. It is absolutely nuts, and a disgrace to what gaming is all about. Hope they are ashamed of themself. Btw., a mouse and keyboard on console doesn't work the same as a pc one. They are a controller adaption. Yes, u get more buttons, but so you also do on an elite controller, yet they have not been called cheaters. The whole discussion is such an elitist joke, born on misinformation and nonsense.

[vital fractal]

A different loadout and Mouse and Keyboard on console are considered equal to you?

[lean estuary]

I could definitely be misinformed! Does the mouse operate the same on console as it does on PC for speed and precision during aiming?

[empty oasis]

born on misinformation and nonsense.

While I agree with most all you said, This is somewhat off. MnK is faster and more precise than analogue sticks and therefore a straight advantage so the outcry has merit

[vital fractal]

crytek themselves know MnK is not considered Kosher

To defend it is insane

[lean estuary]

Banning someone for using what sounds more like an aid device to support a disability is definitely nuts, though

[vital fractal]

If they have a disability

That’s different

But 99.9% of the time

MnK is used specifically for its benefits to precision on console

[lean estuary]

Yup

[lean estuary]

This is what I figured

[vital fractal]

As for elite controllers, the main handling of them is the same

The more buttons isn’t the issue, the handling of the entire device is

And I don’t even have an elite

[rustic timber]

It does not.. They all mimic the joystick. Meaning you move the mouse left, it is equal to the josticks. No different speed. In translates a controller output, the hardware u are using. On Xbox Elite controller, u got higher point of sentivity aswell. Meaning a xbox elite controller vs a let's say a hori tac gamepad user would have an disadvantage. A sales person that tries to handle your concern, saying that there is nothing they can do about it, it is not a confirmation that it is cheating. It is also microsoft and playstation that decides what can be used on their consoles. They being the one selling the licens and crytek being under their rule on their platform, means it an option like any other.

[radiant river]

also even if you don't beleive this generally the devices give you access to MnK while keeping the aim assist that controllers have, which is not something MnK normally has.

also I've never seen people say using the official elite controllers is cheating

[vital fractal]

My guy, physically speaking the handling of the device is more precise-

2. Just because Microsoft’s purview over software on the Xbox is great doesn’t dictate the fact that Crytek for hunt clearly shows the viewpoint of agreeing MnK on console is not acceptable as I posted above and you can search yourself or even ask them yourselves

It’s their game

Their policy

And the general accepted view

[radiant river]

other third party controllers are much more contentious

[vital fractal]

Seriously, you can just ask them yourself

[rustic timber]

I have talked with them.. even got confirmation from dennis on live stream on twitch. It is an option.

[vital fractal]

Option for what? General gameplay?

I’ll brb

[rustic timber]

Their exist million things like this, touch pads exist aswell on controller. Is that cheating too? I notice the guy saying scripting and software is not allowed. Which makes sense. But then again, the controller is not adding script to the game is it? It is giving controller input, like a controller does, read in the format of that platform. IT doesn't magicilly give PC options into A PS5. It is a bottleneck.. a translator., an immitation with restrictions. The reason you can't track it is because their is nothing to track. The movements are equal, the speed is the same.. The difference is the hand position of the user, that's it. On PC we are used to it being so many options, and macro buttons, and different layouts and screens. We welcome that, is creates variations. And the cheaters on our platform ads code to give themself advantage in game. Which makes it so ridicolous for me when someone comes up and say Billy is cheating, because he has different football shoes. You console players are spoiled, when it comes to what actuall cheating is. 😉

[radiant river]

there's a reason other games ban stuff like xim

[vital fractal]

The game doesn’t support it, you strictly need 3rd party support for it-

Inherently it’s not supported, and you can’t wave away the support saying they would ban it outright if they could get around those 3rd party softwares and hardwares

Even in your own explanation in how it works, shows it is not native nor originally designed to allow it as it mimics a controller to achieve functionality instead of being… natively supported

Also, you are again ignoring the physical aspect of the control of the device where mouse gives more precision period- especially in your example where the software is “equal” in input

We can clearly see the inputs from mouse and keyboard are more precision in game compared to a controller on average,

As Coboss said, you can see how other franchises have handled MnK in the same FPS competitive PvP/PvE genre or simply in PvP FPS games in general

[radiant river]

an important part is that you keep the aim assist of controller aswell. some games have added the option for mnk on console but you don't keep your aim assist in that case

not sure how much aim assist matters in hunt though, I've heard its relatively minor compared to other games

[vital fractal]

It’s cheating, no matter how you frame it unless a very rare exception applies

Its use of Third Party devices to assist performance that is NOT supported

[rustic timber]

Does your guys experience of MK adapters come from personal use, or a notion? Think about it.. It is an input device. If it can be banned, it is because it ads something that is detectebal in-game. If it can't be detected, it is doing nothing more then a regular controller. Just ready x and y to mimic joystick.

[vital fractal]

And yes, consoles don’t have the typical hacks pc has- but that doesn’t change what cheating is anyways, it’s just a benefit we have in exchange for our platform being a bit more limited than pc- it’s not relevant here

[vital fractal]

You’re ignoring literally everything else to say that if something is translated into the same outputs (despite how those outputs come along strangely) it’s the same thus isn’t cheating in this case

But you are ignoring literally everything else

[lean estuary]

I turn my aim-assist off on console as well, otherwise it may stick to grunt heads instead of the Hunter behind them

[radiant river]

you can use wallhacks and be undetectable. not sure what that has to do with it

[rustic timber]

Have you used it? Has anyone of you used it before?

[vital fractal]

Yes

Multiple times

For my PC games

On PC

🗿🗿

Of which I have an FPS on console and Xbox separately, that is the same

So yeah, MnK is more precise by most accounts and personal accounts

[rustic timber]

But they do not function the same. Please put that adapter into your console, and tell me after that this was the same experience..

[vital fractal]

In both games I notice, as for many accounts you’ll find and that has been supported as a general truth, MnK is much more precise in FPS than Controller for the same game

[vital fractal]

Oh my god we are not going into mechanics of this,

It’s cheating whether the sculptor itself comes in and uses bayou magic to wirelessly transmit my inputs into outputs directly into my hunter in game or if it’s a dongle

The mechanics mean jackshit

[radiant river]

I have tried it in other games. I'm aware it's not as strong as being able to use mnk as it normally works, but again, there's a reason it is common at a high level in other games and is enough of a problem to be banned

[vital fractal]

It’s cheating, period

It’s an unsupported, 3rd party software/device that crytek have shown they consider as such and hence is considered cheating by crytek, other similar genre games/companies, and most players

[crystal plume]

Why wouldn't they? As long as the game allows you to disable certain things like dead zones or such all you are doing is translating mouse movement to a joystick movement, in practice there is 0 difference between them code wise but a mouse can be used with much greater precision

[rustic timber]

If a boat on land is described as functioning the same as on sea, then mechanic does mean more then jackshit.

[vital fractal]

Mans baiting at this point

He’s a master at baiting this topic fr

[radiant river]

It's definitely a grey area. Theres lots of other console related things available that are questionable if they should be allowed. Like controllers that have macros and norecoil stuff built in.

[vital fractal]

A master baiter if you so will

[radiant river]

Ultimately it's up to the devs. It's extremely hard to detect, so they might just not see it as something worth fighting.

[rustic timber]

All am I saying is that this is a witch hunt that is more emotional then logic. That some controller centralise the joystick is an argument, for you have to hold it at place. Which doesn't happend on MK adapters. But a lot of controllers can be adusted for that aswell.

[crystal plume]

There's no reason to really argue about this, there's mountains of evidence of mouse being more precise to aim with than a joystick and the issue with hardware like xims is that they are designed to mask themselves as a controller while translating mouse/macro inputs 1:1 giving their users a huge advantage

If said devices didn't mask themselves as genuine controllers, they would be instantly blocked by most consoles/games

[rustic timber]

And a mouse of a pc, versus a joystic is absolutely right. But an adapter mimicing a mouse is not,

[crystal plume]

It is

You can make it 1:1

That's the issue

[rustic timber]

The mouse on a PC is not close to an adapter mouse. 1:1. That is crazy!

[weary sand]

crytek hasnt said a thing of region lock right?

Im tired of getting 180 ping because some 4 star solo from japan decided to play on SA

[rustic timber]

Nope., but again.. I play in europe, and have friends in the US. Would love to still play with them.

[lean estuary]

Sometimes I use a gamecube controller to play Hunt on a pregnancy test screen (but please don’t tell the authorities)

[rustic timber]

The advantage you have had is ubelievebal!!! U disgusting cheater!!! XD

[frank owl]

They need to make it where you can duel wield 2 dif pistols

[lean estuary]

It dropped my KDR in the lake, I’ll tell you what

[queen jungle]

Was on Rachtas stream with david, doubt we'll see a region lock.

[empty oasis]

Why would you get 180 ping from them joining? That's not how latency works lmao

[weary sand]

not sure but its happening

[empty oasis]

Most likely culprit is a routing issue with your isp

[weary sand]

I doubt it

some matches I had 180

some it was 40 (the usual)

[empty oasis]

And none of that disqualifies it from being a routing issue

[queen jungle]

Yeah no shot other players ping is going to drag yours down like that, I play on EU, tons of players from East Asian regions and my ping remains 30.

[weary sand]

I am playing on SA

[tiny pivot]

it's hard but possible, r6s does it

[weary sand]

all I know is that each time it happens I either see a profile from places far away from SA on the teams screen after that match

[tiny pivot]

#game-ideas message
true and very funny because they already changed hundred hands and its still barely worth it, very interesting to determine whether its worse off because crytek barely balances or if they just dont know/notice because bows are underutilized

[vital fractal]

@tawny prawn just run incendiary ammo, most low velo guns have it

They are literally considered tracers by in game loading tips

[tawny prawn]

yea, but it'd be nice if the tracers for it were improved

doesnt feel that intuitive as it is now, could be better

[hot vigil]

I mean, what is there more to improve?
Fire bullets literally trace, issue is that 90% of the guns in Hunt are iron sight, you not gonna see the the bullets 99% of the time compared to modern shooters were you can outfit every gun with either red dot/holo sights or scopes.

Here is a good example of it, the red dot gives a lot of space between the dot and the barrel, so you can easily track the bullet.

But in Hunt, bc we use ironsights most of the time, you not gonna be able to track the bullet as easily as the ironsight and barrel is closer together leaving no room to track the bullets.

[radiant river]

I feel like a moving target in the shooting range would be just as if not way more useful

[tawny prawn]

havent played in a while actually, thats probably why it felt so underwhelming

[tawny prawn]

still would be one of the best changes if they ever get around to it

[hot vigil]

Shame that it more less got confirmed that ain't gonna happen by Fifield himself :(

[hot vigil]

Well, it is what it is, the closer aligned the barrel is to sight, the less you can see where the bullet go, especially in hunt where ADS makes bullets fly 100% straight with no deviation and very short engagement distance too

[tawny prawn]

nah, i gotcha. just forgot about the poor visibility

[hot vigil]

Haha, I do not mind it, but I also play a lot of Henry, which is a single shot low profile rifle.

[frozen crater]

HOOOOLY SHIT concertina wire permeating every wall known to man has cost me huge

[tawny prawn]

one of the cleaner guns to use, easy to get used to mv and sight picture

sparks takes a little more practice

[frozen crater]

that wire really has an inaccurate hitbox

[tawny prawn]

you get used to it, just assume it glitches through, lol

[hot vigil]

Well, sparks have higher mv, so that gives a little more easier shot

[frozen crater]

I really never get used to it

Ive used the concertina bomb exclusively in my 4th cons slot for months and it still sucks to use

[tawny prawn]

might be better to save it as cover when your teammates go down then, if youre using it around buildings too often

[tawny prawn]

yea and the cracked medkit drain

well, going off limbshots it feels much better

[sterile beacon]

Ngl matchmaking like this is gonna kill this game

I really don’t understand how this is what we match against. It is so unbelievably different in our skill level between us and the other squads we didn’t stand a chance

And it’s not even like it tried to filter it either and just gave us this after sitting in matchmaking for a bit we literally got into this match within 5 seconds of beginning matchmaking

Like I really like this game but for people who don’t have a lot of time to spend on it we are just getting absolutely bodied every match because we’re getting matched against people that are impossible for us to beat

[tardy rapids]

You're 4 star play at 3 am EST or 12 PST

The only people you'll get are no lifers at 5 ro 6 star

If you play during inactive times

You're not gonna have people in your bracket

[floral nova]

I think back then they used to shoot one handed 🤔 https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/26hcyv/why_were_soldiers_and_policemen_originally/

[lean estuary]

This is true, but with some short practice I bet a Fencers/Pointers stance would be abandoned by Hunters when scrambling, running, and trying to steady your shooting arm for precision

[tribal wyvern]

Did he specify he played at random hours? And he got into the match quite instantly which means the game didn't actively try & find his rank, then gave up & looked far outside his rank.

The game has absurdly bad matchmaking & it's only gonna stay this bad & get worse.
Not even events can hype people up anymore.

I remember the 40k i think spike during one event. Think it was the event after they announced a new way to do events. Never happened afterwards. And now it's just a downward spiral.

And matchmaking is not just horrible in terms of a low ranked team vs high ranked.
Solo 6 star sweats can comfortable stay in 3-4 star ranks by just dying to them a few times. And since they're always considered lower than you, you'll never go up. Unless you spend 3 games farming 12+ kills without dying.

[vital drum]

Hunt's matchmaking is not trying to give you perfectly fair matches, matchmaking time takes priority.

And whether having perfectly accurate matchmaking would be good for Hunt or not is generally debatable. This is not an arena shooter at the end of the day. But what imo they need to do is to get rid of stars, because they give players the perception of something almost similar to a competitive ladder, when it's really not and that's not the goal of this system. It's primarily to give players starting out a bit of a buffer to learn the game and to give players who never get over that 3-4* range matches where they can have a chance of winning. Volatility can be a problem and is something devs stated in the roadmap video that they want to address.

In terms of numbers, your own screenshot shows a 38.6k peak, which isn't that far removed from the 44.5k peak we had in June last year. It's understandable that people are a little fatigued from events now and we're in the phase of waiting for likely the biggest Hunt update in August. They could do something to keep numbers higher like another event, but I feel like it's good to give players a break until then as well.

It's generally a lot more useful to look both at what's happening now as well as the big picture.

[tribal wyvern]

"And whether having perfectly accurate matchmaking would be good for Hunt or not is generally debatable."
Thats an interesting take.
I bet the 3 stars love being dunked on by 6 stars. They think they're smart sneaking around, they take a peek & some wooololo guy jumps around the corner & snipes his face with a nitro & spams his friend with a dolch.

Yeee jokes aside, this is a competitive shooter, doesn't need to be "arena" wise to feel good facing ppl who plays equally good as you.

Also hiding stars doesn't solve anything. You have a big portion that dislikes the game currently because the matchmaking does not feel good. Regardless how many weapons they implement, events, twitch drop. The playerbase is rapidly dropping.

Thats some strong copium about the playerbase number. This is the 44k peak i spoke about

Playerbase dropping over 2k-3k every month is not people suddenly wanting to wait for August, they didn't even know it would come then until like a week ago.

If we were to compare Hunt to an arena shooter where "perfect" mmr exist.
lets take Rainbow six siege. Their ranked is always like a few ranks around yours, gets tighter as the season progresses where it figures out your rank.

Casual gameplay is the wildwest, where theres some matchmaking but not restrictive at all. You could be silver, facing a platinum for example.

However Hunt does not have a casual mode. The game is competitive, you have to find ways always make money to buy weapons etc. There is a legit loss to loosing, that punishes you. Like how loosing mmr in ranked also punishes you for loosing. CS:GO has an interesting take on this, with how you gain/lose mmr.

You can't run mosin & die in the first fight everysingle game. If you could without any loss, that'd be casual.
But you can't, if you go to 0 money, you're f'd.

One can make the argument that the idk the name anymore, it changed. But the 12 free for all. Is the Casual.
But thats not really fair to say.
The dynamics of a R6 siege & the rules, still stay the exact same if you're playing casual or ranked.
They can be a bit more lenient on the time of a round etc, but i think theres a "casual ranked" where the games are identical to ranked, but no mmr still.

Here you just have a solo mode & a group mode. And the group is competitive.

[vital drum]

Players don't just wait for August because they feel like it, in the live service environment you either have something to entice your players to play right now or you're losing players. The idea that a game can consistently maintain its player base at its peek through its sheer goodness was never alive and it's especially dead in the live service era.

Regarding matchmaking - there a problem that explains why Hunt can't really do traditional competitive brackets and that's why I find stars misleading and want them gone. First of all, it's the lack of a clear win condition. In an arena shooter, it's all about killing another player. In a bunch of team-based games there's a clear victory that one team gets and that leads to their rating increasing. You can't really do that in Hunt. You can't use bounty as a metric almost at all in fact and even kills are far from the perfect indicator.

At the end of the day this system exists just to make matches a little more fair, not perfectly fair. Crytek has the data and they can set those brackets are lot tighter right now. In fact, they adjust them in the background all the time. But it will come with downsides. Primarily with matchmaking times and the amount of players in matches. And right now Crytek sees that as a bigger issue. You may disagree with this approach, but there are clear downsides that will come with the opposite choices that the player base will also feel and dislike. It's not a miracle solution to save Hunt and even the idea that Hunt needs saving is questionable, based on the graph I posted above. Zooming into it to see particular parts that are supposed to have correlation to the exact problem you believe to be causing it is not helpful.

There's a general problem with going for very accurate matchmaking that is forced on. You go through one bracket to another and you do better personally, but so do players around you. So you're never really benefitting from your progress, you're just there chasing a number going up. That's why I think having brackets somewhat wide is beneficial in some sense. The problems arise at the extreme ends of those wider brackets of course and I wonder if there's some way to address that. Maybe doing brackets that aren't as static, meaning you aren't always in a particular part of a bracket if you don't oscillate. So you occasionally find yourself in the middle of a bracket, sometimes a bit lower, sometimes a bit higher. This of course comes with the problem of negatively affecting accuracy of your MMR oveall, but that's already something that's arguably an inherent problem of Hunt's game design not really made for that.

[topaz tide]

Properly balancing Matchmaking is never easy I'd imagine

[vital drum]

It really isn't, it's a topic in most games for a reason 😄 A lot of it genuinely comes down to game design. If you're balancing chess, it's a far easier problem than to balance a battle royale and especially a game like Hunt, where you can just extract at any moment or set your on criteria of winning.

[topaz tide]

Yeah, especially in regards to PVP. Like, by what metric does one use to determine how matchmaking should function? Should we go off kills, bounty extracts, some combination? Idk how this stuff works, I just queue up to die another day.

[vital drum]

Bounty isn't used and I think it's for a good reason. If a team extracting with the bounty gets points, that means other teams need to lose points. If you had a spawn fight and your team died, does that mean your rating should be further decreased because you don't extract with a bounty? Or if you just spawned next to a boss, killed it and extracted, do you get an rating boost? You either make bounty a small enough factor and it can have a small effect that might be inconsequential or you make it a proper factor and open things up for potential abuse like intentionally not extracting with a bounty and focusing on PvP to artificially limit your rating.

[analog sigil]

Getting rid of stars makes finding teammates of your own mmr difficult

[vital drum]

That is something to consider, but I think with introducing in-game team voip they could possibly focus on encouraging players to use randoms instead and make SBMM a factor there

You could always resort to stuff like KDA as well, even if I'm not the biggest fan of the focus being on that either 😄

[topaz tide]

Ought to bring Thanos in to make things "perfectly balanced". This is making my head spin trying to understand it.

[topaz tide]

Title: Feedback for Circus Hunters Idea
Details: I proposed an idea for Circus inspired Hunters (as well as Legendary weapons) in #game-ideas and would like to know people's thoughts-- for both my pitched idea(s) and the concept of having Circus themed content in general.

<#game-ideas message>
<#game-ideas message>

[queen jungle]

@wanton imp A condition for this should be that the player is P100 though

[jagged wagon]

Why only P100? Surly we want people spending the money they accumulate regardless of if they are p100 or not? Plenty of millionaires out there that don't want to prestige, this would give them another way of being tempted of spending that cash on something other than endless mosin's and dolch's. Prestige has its own rewards and accolades, obtaining vast amounts of money can have its own.

[turbid heart]

Just copy + pasting what I posted on the steam forums:

"Right...

Can we have a discussion on this Perk, mainly the solo aspect of it. Being able to revive yourself is a good mechanic but there must be more restrictions on it.

Playing solo is a disadvantage yes, but you are choosing to do that as a player rather than playing with friends or using the matchmaking system to find a partner. This perk should not reward solo players as much as it does at the moment. Everyone else should not be punished because someone decided to go solo.

Playing either as a solo or part of a group it is such a horrible way of playing having to stare at a dead body until they eventually revive and killing them another 3 times. Make it so if they don't revive within 30 seconds they are permanently dead and give the existing players some sort of visual indicator that the downed player is still able to revive or is permanently dead.

I feel like the solution I listed above could be a possibility or another way is to make the solo player only have 1 chance at a revive, and once you have revived once, you don't get any more."

[flat sandal]

Yeah, it is a bit of a clunky pain in the neck. It's being discussed quite a bit with varying perspectives and potential solutions. Personally I'm with you, something should definitely be done 😄

weirdly there is not a shortage of people who think that the resulting gameplay is somehow good.

[empty oasis]

Only if teams have the same restrictions. Don't revive within 30 seconds? Back to the lobby. Hope your teammates win quickly

Oh, and they can only pick you up once

[wanton imp]

i agree with ya. i myself have made a fortune and don't wanna hit that reset button to lose that fortune i would rather spend it on something first.

[queen jungle]

Prestige is part of the regular progression of Hunt and those electing to not take part on that shouldn't get rewarded with something special as the suggested stuff.

[radiant river]

Would be such a waste for them to develop anything like that for such a small portion of the playerbase

Also that would just mean it doesn't fix the problem which is that people have absurd amounts of money built up

If anything it'd be cool if people who prestige could spend money on it each time before they prestige. It could be something that doesn't reset when you prestige.

[jagged wagon]

So one goal (reaching p100) is the correct way to play and the other goal (earning alot of money) isn't? Hunt is a game designed around playing your way. Devs actively endorse this. However, fine, keep the rich rich and just getting richer, fight more crazy expensive loadouts rather than having another way for people to burn their cash. I know they are adding to/working on the prestige system but right now for me to go from 50 - 100 for one mosin skin, and miss out on the traits I want and the gun variants I currently have access to is just not attractive. Its cool though, right now I can only afford 2144 Dolch's.

[crystal plume]

@viscid rune I'm fairly confident that a whole lot of people pick greyhound over gator legs so I feel like you have your argument backwards in your suggestion 😅

[hardy coral]

Greyhound means you no longer need stam shots, it's a great trait. Gator legs is a nice little buff trait.

They're both fine.

[viscid rune]

I mean Greyhound trait is not that useful for its price. Why not combining them and leave the same price?

[crystal plume]

It absolutely is though, unless you have stamina shot active it will make the difference in chase situations be it you being chased or the one chasing

As well as travelling through the map quicker

Gator legs are much more worthless compared to that so I can see your suggestion benefitting gator legs more than it does greyhound

[hardy coral]

Most open areas you cross with ease with greyhound while without you can get stuck in the middle

Playing without greyhound... I don't, I use stam shots until I buy it.

[crystal plume]

I use both

10 minutes is rarely enough for a full match duration, even when using it only later into the match

It's nice to have backups

[floral nova]

hey guy, I was thinking. What about punishing rage quitters? People that disconnects upon death. Typically peple pushing alone in trios random.

[crystal plume]

How would you detect that though in a way that only punishes people doing it unjustly?

I've had plenty of randoms matches where my teammates barely participate in the fight after I die, why should I be forced to stay in the match and wait them sit in a corner for 10 minutes

If you want more consistent teammates you should play with friends or use the LFG chats here, with randoms you just have to accept that you are essentially 3 solos playing together and go in with those expectations

[hardy coral]

Using two is plenty if you pop them a little bit in.

[crystal plume]

I have other important consumable to bring

[hardy coral]

And how I move with greyhound I never run out of stam.

[crystal plume]

Not gonna use 2 slots for it

[hardy coral]

Consumables to me are just for making space, any you pick out of a toolbox does that.

Playing with greyhound you can specialise but this just means frag bombs since in certain spots they get guaranteed kills.