feedback-discussion

[vital fractal]

So I always take it

[tiny pivot]

Like

I see two main use for necro as a solo

And both are jokes

1: I don’t have the max lv50 hunters achievement and death cheat is decently rare so necromancer acts as a decent standin
2: BDB killing bosses now that they made killing bosses otherwise as a solo actually depressing

[vital fractal]

I like the change to bosses tbh

Now you actually have to invest in killing them

Not that hard tbh, perringer- melee weapon- variants- consumables, can’t just expect to go in with all PvP items and do well in PvE

[remote ore]

you forgot 3: trades

which is probably the best use case for it

[vital fractal]

As for saving hunters, it’s a nice quality of life thing

And trades are important too

The amount of times I suicide bombed knowing damn well I could be revived by a teammate OR necro, is notable

[remote ore]

also useful when you're killed at a significant range by a sniper team

[tiny pivot]

Honestly I disagree but that's just a personal thing

I feel like the needle was pushed a bit too far in terms of being annoying to kill for soloes

Which some might argue that's fine and there ARE options but it doesn't make it feel any less bad in the moment

I personally vouch for them just upping the droprate of world weapons again, or as a medium, add more guaranteed spots for them to spawn

But as of right now, in my personal gameplay, killing bosses I usually either

• Wait for someone else to do it
• Bring a sticky/BDB+necro and hope it works and isn't assassin
• If assassin, nobody else fighting, just give up my humanity and knuckle knife the guy for like 5 minutes risking the entire match because Assassin is the worst boss bar none

Mostly because assassin is hard to hit with BDB/Sticky and at that point I just throw in the towel

And, for reference, yes Perringer exists, and in my personal gameplay, I do use it. It is also great for Meatheads and immensly underrated imo, but if you ask me personally the impact on it in terms of boss killing specifically is minimal

I also wish they would make explosives in general do more damage/better radi against bosses, it legit feels like they do nothing unless it's perfectly hit and also a BDB/Sticky

But ymmv, this comes from a consistent solo player and while I agree with the idea I think there are other parts of the game that could be pushed a bit more torwards bosses dying a bit easier
There are options and I use them (mostly, personally, pennyshot shotguns/ringer and stickys since I don't use all my consumable slots) but I still think the needle could be pushed

Also on that note anyone else think Lemat penny would be funny as fuck
I do not want them to add it because imo it's unbalanced but it WOULD be funny

Mostly because Lemat penny would add more viability for Pennyringer against AI (at that point you'd be killikng at least 2 meatheads and doing likely half or more of boss hp) but I think having it as a secondary on the Lemat which is already pretty buffed now is kinda unbalanced.
The Drilling gets away with it because you're sacrificing the Drilling's kinda-half-way-decent shotgun and also a decent primary at the same teim

[signal mural]

@vast geyser That's actually a pretty standard high ELO Solo. His "team" MMR is dropped one whole star because he's a solo queing up versus trios. That KDA, at 5*, seems legit if he just plays careful and is a good shot - probably a veteran solo player. The looser MMR bracket for 5 & 6 * doesn't actually play a role here either. These guys need somewhere to play too - just bad luck for your team.

[signal mural]

@vast shuttle It would be kind of awesome if people got a few BBs if their reports resulted in a cheater getting banned.

[vast shuttle]

it would be really nice and it would lessen the sting of you losing your hunter and time due to a checker

[remote ore]

getting back your hunter and stuff would be nice, but not sure about being rewarded with BBs; as this could encourage players to report every time they are killed just in case it could be a cheater; drowning the people who check the reports with false positives

[signal mural]

Honestly I think most people would be happy for any communication if their Reports resulted in an action being taken... The Community seems to think that Crytek doesn't take enough action in general to stop cheating.

I just think it would be a nice incentive if they made the reward low. 5-10 BBs for a successful report, something low enough to not be worth spamming the system but just a token thank you for trying to improve the situation. It'll never happen though.

Honestly, with how many people play Helldivers 2 and allow such an invasive Anti-cheat - I would kind of hope that Hunt could afford to consider switching to the same kernel level Anti-cheat.

[queen jungle]

@torpid sail Thats probably because Asia is very large and they may be closer to EU severs than you are to Asian servers. Or their connection is just better.

[torpid sail]

I think you don't get the point. And it was just copy and paste. EU Servers are more Asia and Russia than EU. Don't smallplay this huge issue, those people are pingabusers and annoying.

[torpid sail]

Also I play with 10 ms ping at EU, so I can be pretty sure my internet is not the issue. Look how many people are complaining about russian & chinese pingabusers. Have a nice weekend.

[hot vigil]

Pennyshots, poison ammo, (sometimes) incendiary ammo, melee variants, sticky bombs, crossbows and bow.
There are so many venues to kill a boss quickly. And at least one of them can fit into your kit if you want to.

[queen jungle]

There really isn't an issue since having a high ping causes players to be disadvantaged. There is no advantage to high ping at all.

[queen jungle]

There is a difference between getting routed maybe a few hundred kilometres across Europe and getting routed to Asian servers in South-East Asia.

Glad to see you're having fun

[torpid sail]

Not with Hunt anymore since a few weeks. And please read the feedback - I am not the only one 😉 Once again: Have a nice weekend.

[paper edge]

2024 and still there isn't favorite option to ur traits

thanks banish company

[queen jungle]

Many people writing the same thing doesn't make it true. There is no advantage to having a high ping.

[torpid sail]

Yeah or crytek and the mods are just giving a fuck about EU players. It's fine. Was my first and last crytekgame.

[crystal plume]

The company that is based in EU doesn't care about their most populated region which they also play on themselves, right

[hot vigil]

Plays one game, think they are an expert

[signal mural]

I understood that he meant only caring for EU players... which also is silly.

[dusky tapir]

they left the discord

[crystal plume]

Oh I misread then, my bad

[frigid folio]

The annoying part is on multiple occasions Crytek has shown how this is what happens with ping but people either choose to remain ignorant about it or just straight up ignore it to make themselves feel better (similar to instant hackusations) 😦

[remote ore]

I will never get why some people need to whine that much

[rotund obsidian]

#feedback-discussion message

Is it advantageous? no. Can it change the outcome of specific scenarios in an advantageous way? yeah.

It feels bad to play against, though. that's the most important thing imo

[frigid folio]

I think the trade window needs to be reduced a bit (in my own opinion as someone who plays on other servers) it can just make game play feel a bit clunky for both parties really

[vital fractal]

Lmao on the subreddit I just saw two different posters complain about cheaters (obviously so from their videos) and the killer is the SAME HUNTER with the SAME MOSIN BAYONET (Loulou Boucher a green pant redhead)

[hot vigil]

Eyup saw that too haha very unfortunate

[vital fractal]

That’s genuinely rough

They said pre 1.0 there used to be massive weapon sway

Old timers is this true?

[hot vigil]

Yes

[vital fractal]

Damn, need that back

No one is out here free handing a fucking lebel standing with near perfect precision

The shit is heavy

[weary fox]

are vencord emotes not allowed here? I just got muted for reacting to a message using a emote :v

[dim heron]

Scammers often use the hidden link function to hide scam links so we've had to block all of them

unfortunately this means vencord free nitro doesn't work

[weary fox]

darn

[dim heron]

sowwi

[weary fox]

[tiny pivot]

The short of my thoughts is that some of the usable items against bosses are very effective, some are middling, and some are imo virtually useless

Melee tools got pushed from being too generally good which is arguably a problem, to closer to useless in my personal opinion

So arguably it did what they intended which was putting an eye on some of the lesser used things but like. Again, I bundle those up based on viability and enjoyment personally

Winnie with a hand crossie, or other similar rapid-fire/big mag weapons with a melee/boss secondary? Pretty good, classic favorite, but not always what I wanna use lol

Other than that, you get into niche stuff like Poison Bomb which virtually never works effectively, Sticky Bomb which is good against everything but Assassin, and BDB which virtually requires necro to be effective. Perringer is also an option but imo more meant for meathead farming or a light chunk off the boss than actually killing it

I guess at the end of the day even as someone who uses a lot of these options (xbow+poisonbolt especially, SO good for farming xp, bodies, anything but nobody wants to talk about it)
It's still gonna be a hard sell to get me to do anything but bring my knuckle knife and a sticky
Like you have to sacrifice a lot out of a loadout in order to get that boss killing power and I suppose that's the intent
But you really aren't gonna get me, let alone the average Hunt tryhard to take away their secondary to give them a boss killing option
So it just slows the game down

[void grail]

Is there any discussion about adding perks to favourites?
Or health bars presets?

[tiny pivot]

#game-ideas message Cool idea but I would still want them to drop from meatheads and in game
Maybe they can tweak the rates of the aformentioned drops and allow you to guarantee one for finishing a hunt
It would be a neat trade because you can give yourself death cheat or something strong like relentless or shadow

[hot vigil]

You literally just have to bring a melee variant of a gun.
And both mosin/dolch has that, so even if you are the sweatiest of meta slaves you have options.

[tiny pivot]

[winged skiff]

someone actually suggested to nerf the Mako, like what?? Thing already shoots really slow for a levergun, has the lowest MV of all long rifles at 540 m/s, second lowest dmg at 128, reloads super slow and finally costs 360. IMO the thing actually needs a slight buff to its ROF, from 1.6 to 1.5 sec, to make sense in the light of the Krag.

[humble quest]

@granite fern guy, putting someone's steam name on this discord doesn't discourage cheating in any way. Nobody on this discord bans cheaters, not because they don't want to. It's not their jobs.

You're free to discuss cheating, show evidence without names if it really makes you feel better but that lack of names is not letting cheating thrive.

@karmic kettle I misread. Disabling a queue so people can play duo vs duo quicker is just a step behind banning solo queue because people don't enjoy it. People should be able to queue as they want and if the game mode is less desired they need to spruce it up in other ways

And queue with a random third when you're a duo is something they've said is coming

[karmic kettle]

Nobody will play duo then.

[humble quest]

Sometimes thats how it goes. I'm just confirming it's a thing coming.

They have options to make duos more appealing. I don't have ideas, but I'm sure it could be done. But generally, I think people just enjoy playing with more of their friends and the general play in trios is vastly more appealing to me personally

[queen jungle]

@granite fern There is a very effective avenue for reporting: it's a button called "Report" in the Team Details of the post-match screen. That's all that's needed to effectively report other players that seem suspiscious.

[granite fern]

I understand the concern about naming individuals directly, but by mentioning a clan tag, we're aiming to highlight patterns of behavior rather than targeting specific players unfairly. The goal is to foster a community where fair play is upheld, and addressing cheating is essential for that. If the current approach isn't effective, perhaps there's room for discussion on alternative strategies to combat cheating while maintaining a positive gaming environment for all.

[queen jungle]

while maintaining a positive gaming environment for all.
Except groups of people you presume to be violating the rules?

[humble quest]

I don't see how blanket naming a clan that may or may not have cheaters within it is somehow better

Or how it helps, again. Just because we know a clans name doesn't mean anything.

[vast geyser]

I'm talking about the premade 4 star trio, not the solo player. You need to look at the name on the left and the exposed trio on the top 😉

[granite fern]

Yes the 'Report' button is indeed available, it doesn't always capture all instances of cheating, especially when dealing with sophisticated cheats or subtle behaviors that may go unnoticed in the heat of gameplay. There have been cases where blatant cheating has persisted despite numerous reports. It's essential to explore additional measures to comprehensively address cheating and ensure fair play for all players. This includes addressing behaviors that compromise fair play, regardless of specific groups involved. When discussing suspicious behavior, my intention is to address patterns i see shown by people and certain groups that I shall not name.

[queen jungle]

The report button is still all that's needed. You report a player, Customer Support takes a look with the various investigative tools they have at their hands.

[rotund obsidian]

@clever pebble #game-ideas message not sure what you mean by this. the bonus at the bottom left ingame is the extra amount you get. if it says 10%, you get 10% bonus points. if it says 100%, you get 100% bonus points.

I think it'd be a little odd if it was 1.1x, 1.2x, 2x, 2.1x, etc...

[crude scaffold]

tf is this

[signal mural]

Oh yeah... my bad I misidentified the player that was pulled up on the left. Yeah, that MMR 4 with a 3.6 kda is a bit strange... guess he's having a bad run or playing a lot of solo... I don't know. But thanks for calling out my misread... I should've caught that.

[dim heron]

Discord issue, use "Copy link" instead

[clever pebble]

If i get 100 and it says 100% Increase 100% of 100 is 100. (100 x 100% = 100)

[queen jungle]

let me simplify it,

+100%

+10%

on top of the points you'll already be receiving

that's how it works

so when it says you're getting 100% boost, that's just 200% in the end

aka, double

or 10% = 1.1x

[rotund obsidian]

yeah, if you get 100 and it says 100% increase, that's an increase of 100. so 200 total. that's 100% extra points.

[fervent nimbus]

Maybe this is the right forum

Outside the building the spider can get you

[languid jay]

youre doing the math wrong, instead of it being a base number multiplier, its an additive multiplier
the correct math would be : [ event points in match * ( 1 + bonus ) = total event points ]
the way youre thinking of it is : [ event points in match * bonus = total event points ]
its not an issue, its being done right, youre just thinking of it different than it is

[fervent nimbus]

I just got killed by a spider that jumped over me, outside the building...

[queen jungle]

I think this may be a latency thing

game might think you're still inside the building, spider attacks, drops down on you

[fervent nimbus]

And here it goes my KD... due to the netcode of this game...

[queen jungle]

AI doesn't affect kd

lol

is purely pvp

[fervent nimbus]

Ah nice...

But this is a bug...

[languid jay]

yeah unfortunately this is a common thing with AI, there is no collision detection for an AI's attacks
not a netcode thing, just bad hitbox collision

[fervent nimbus]

Even my team laught because this saw it happen

[queen jungle]

spider is the most janky boss

[fervent nimbus]

She glitch...

Ok, thank you...

[clever pebble]

So my waze more simpler and is why I suggested it

[rotund obsidian]

I don't think it is simpler, actually. If it was strictly double weekends, sure, but the extra points from signee and event bonus hunters don't stack like that. Those bonuses aren't multiplicative, which is why they're shown as a bonus percentage. The 100% bonus from the weekend stacks with the 10% bonus from signee to be 110% bonus. A 2x weekend and a 1.1x hunter don't actually multiply (that would be 2.2x, but it's actually 2.1x effectively)

Since the bonus points are all additive, it makes sense to show them as a percentage bonus, not a multiplier.

[vital fractal]

This is sounding like MMO math lmao

Multiplicative xp here, additive there, total over yonder, amplify all

[rotund obsidian]

i mean yeah it's just the bonuses are additive instead of multiplicative lol

[clever pebble]

100% = 2x and 10% = .1x so 110% = 2.1x so if I have 200 and it is 2.1x I will get 420 (200 x 2.1 = 420)

[rotund obsidian]

Yeah. so they'd have to write it as "+0.1x multiplier" on hunters, since 1.1x wouldn't be accurate.

[languid jay]

if anything, the only change needed would be adding a + to the percentages icon in game

because there just isnt one right now

[rotund obsidian]

that's fair, yeah. seeing the '100%' in the corner for the first time was a little odd

[languid jay]

just pops up as a random number that people might not understand

[languid jay]

yeah you got the correct formula, its just funky math names

messes me up sometimes too

[clever pebble]

Yes and the only reason they don’t is because 10% looks like a bigger increase then 0.1x

[rotund obsidian]

I think that seeing +0.1x on a hunter is probably more confusing than "10% extra" or whatever the exact phrasing is ingame

[wanton imp]

How about both?

10%/1.1x

[languid jay]

seeing 0.1x in the corner compared to seeing 10% might make it more confusing and could be misunderstood as "im getting less points for some reason"

[clever pebble]

@languid jay More confusing if it was 0.1x instead of 10% I wouldn’t of had to come into the Discord to figure out because then I would’ve known when I take 70 out of a Mission i can x it by the multiplier and then instantly no it is 77

[languid jay]

@vague island #game-ideas message
i do see some cases where i am hit with bleed and i need to swap to a shotgun on the ground to kill someone because im out of ammo on my rifle and vice versa
though i think that the default binds should be reworked as a whole

[boreal obsidian]

So what i got from the multiplying of event points is that the perk thats six points is practically useless

[languid jay]

yeah, if you get less than 10 total from a single match it doesnt give you any

unless its double point weekend

[boreal obsidian]

Yah that a waste of perk points

[languid jay]

the way i see it is that signee should only get picked if youre going for big point games

like pvp focused or center wagon rushing for the clues and totems

the hunters should probably be equipped anyways because its free points

you have to play a hunter anyway so might as well pick one that has the bonus

[clever pebble]

Are you allowed to team up with enemies in a match

[languid jay]

if you find them in the game and you have no agreement in the lobby then yes

@clever pebble

[languid jay]

seems fine to me, this should also be put into #game-questions instead of #feedback-discussion

having VOIP enabled after death would also be good info for this

[boreal obsidian]

My guy theres three people coming out of the building and there were no gun shots going off they were using in-game chat

[tight minnow]

<@&357256267087085568> I believe that the invite limit has been reached, can no longer make specific invites to channels

[dim heron]

Please use <@&792845835855200267> in the future

It's a common Discord issue

[tight minnow]

okay thank you

sorry for that

[dim heron]

Our invites arn't full, you can use Copy link instead

[tight minnow]

gotcha thank you!

[winged skiff]

question: If someone goes into your traps and die AFTER you've left the match, do you still get the kill?

I hope not

[rotund obsidian]

no, nothing counts after you've left the match. if you're still spectating it will though

[winged skiff]

Ok, cool anything else would also be whack

[coral pulsar]

@safe mountain Ironically in your case the smoke would definitely rise through the floor and make you cough if this was realistic.

[signal mural]

@humble quest I was thinking about your suggestion for MMR adjustments being 1x per Opponent per Match. The primary downfall I see in it is if an opponent does resurrect and the fight continues into a meaningful shootout. I think if someone is revived and deals damage to the team that killed them then it could reset the possibility to affect each other's MMR again. That way if the opponent is just getting downed while reviving or shortly thereafter by the same team... It isn't counted. It still isn't perfect but bit by bit maybe we all as a Community could cook up a better system.

[humble quest]

Imo id rather not convolute the rule to be harder to explain and would prefer it stay at the single instance. The whole idea is to slow MMR change, be it up or down.i

[rare vortex]

@vague island why do you think the Dolch is fine?

[vague island]

It is somehow feels less broken that Nagant Carbine. Mb due to lower firerate. It is also much more expensive and I can't say I stumble on it every single game

From my experience you have more chances surviving the Dolch (on 5 MMR) than Nagant

[rare vortex]

Price isn't a way to nerf a weapon
Dolch has FMJ which allows it spam to help score better wallbangs over the Nagant not
(this is similar to the Cyclone having FMJ)

Firerate is about the same if not the same

They both show 0.6s splits between 2 tap kills/deaths

[vague island]

Yet the price directly affects how often you see the weapon in the game.

[rare vortex]

Yet once you buy the weapon the price doesn't matter

the weapon doesn't care how much it cost

acquiring does not equal performance

[vague island]

I can say only that everyone has "that very weapon" that must 100% be nerfed and deleted from the game. For you it is Dolch, if you asked me - it would be Slate or CC with slugs.

The point is there is a very thin line between nerfing the weapon and completely destroying it within the game balance. Things you offer to do with Dolch is basically destroying it, making it a non-viable option

[crystal plume]

I agree that Dolch should be changed again to make it a bit worse but I do not agree with reducing it's mag size as the solution

[vague island]

Again, I personally don't have much issue with the Dolch (and I am a melee-focused player, shotguns and rapid fire guns are my bane). Yes, it is powerful, but not so powerfull to simply erase it from the meta

[crystal plume]

Well dolch is the meta to be fair

Strongest side arm by far, and the precision version with FMJ is even better than some primaries

[vague island]

Yet, it is seen much less then other meta guns, like Mosin. Cost matters, after all

[crystal plume]

Not from my experience

It has been very common in high MMR on EU servers

[rare vortex]

Where do you suggest to cut back on the Dolch?

[crystal plume]

Hell my friend collects them from enemies for fun, they have something like 70 hunters all with 4 looted dolches equipped

[crystal plume]

I don't know exactly, something simpler like recoil or such to begin with

[vague island]

I am a 5 MMR player, played for past 7 hours and only seen 3 Dolch at that time (2 of which were in the same premade). It is a rather small number for +- 16 games

[rare vortex]

Recoil is such a hit or miss nerf tho, since it's based on RNG of if it lets the weapon recoil well or not into a nice 2 tap or recovery for realigning another shot that does land

As far as recoil nerfing has shown, it either lets a weapon be viable or unplayed because not very good to reacquire a followup shot

[vague island]

Have you seen the Nagant Carbine before the buff? Nobody used it

Harder gunplay will do the same with Dolch

[rare vortex]

Referring to how Nagant Officer Carbine and Cyclone have been treated

[crystal plume]

If you are referring to the most recent recoil change on it, it was used quite a bit even before it and those who used it knew exactly how powerful it already was. They changed the recoil to feel less floaty so it was less of a buff and more of a quality of life improvement on it

[vague island]

Cyclone is nowhere near to be compared with these two, btw. Basically a Romero of the rifles - you either double-tap or die

[rare vortex]

Cyclone does what the Nagant cannot. FMJ for better 2 tap at range with damage kept over distance and wallbanging

[crystal plume]

And I honestly do not use people using or not using something as a sign of something being strong or not since I have been here and in other gaming communities long enough to know how bad at people are at gauging strengths of weapons and are way too impressionable to others statements of weapons letting it affect their decisions on whether or not to use something

[vague island]

I am reffering the one that was before it. When Crytek simply deleted recoil for it

[rare vortex]

Dolch right now has that FMJ that the Nagant does not

no other pistol right now is spammable and FMJ

and can be intentionally aimed, fanning FMJ doesn't count

[vague island]

Spitfire? New Army?

[coral pulsar]

Yeah nah, remove the dolch. People who use the dolch leave. win win.

[rare vortex]

Well yes, but with extremely low MVs

the Dolch doesn't suffer at all

[vague island]

MV doesn't matter if you're double tapping

[rare vortex]

At range?

the Dolch is still used at range reasonably well with its decent MV

even with FMj

[vague island]

Used - yes. Effective - meh. It is still a close range weapon

[rare vortex]

The Dolch is not just a close range weapon

[vague island]

Somebody got really upset with the Dolch recently, I see...

[rare vortex]

No, because you're saying feelings and not facts

78m is not just a close range weapon

especially at 390mv its a perfectly reasonable ranged option

[vague island]

I have 2000 hours in Hunt and never been shot by Dolch on this distance, sry

[rare vortex]

I have 4000 hrs man.

I don't care to refer to it but I'm not clueless

[vague island]

And cry about Dolch... Bruh

Whatever. I gave you my arguments, see no point in further discussion

[rare vortex]

Your arguments at 2k hrs still include "hey pricing is how you nerf a weapon"

tells me that you don't know yet

[vague island]

I know enough in gamedesign overall to say that pricing has impact on weapon usage

[rare vortex]

cost is an influence in pickrate, not how the weapon performs

you should know this, at 2k hours

[vague island]

I never denied it

Okay, so you just say: you feel wrong, Dolch is OP
Same as if I said: you feel wrong, you are just bad

What is the point?

[rare vortex]

Okay. So are you going to disagree or stick by that cost is how to nerf a weapon, when cost only infuences pickrate, and not how the weapon performs?

[vague island]

I didn't say that Dolch needs nerf at all. I literally said that it directly affects pickrates, making Dolch a relatively rare weapon

[rare vortex]

I said: Dolch needs a nerf
then you said, it already costs a lot so I don't think people use it
fallacy in the logic: just because not many people use it doesn't mean its not effective when it is used

and not many people use it because they either don't choose to use it or don't want to pay for it

but if they choose to pay for it, how much they paid into the weapon doesn't weigh down how the gun performs in PvP

[vague island]

yeah, but they pay for its performance

it works this way

exactly why Mosin costs 500~

[rare vortex]

By that sense, let me pay 3k H$ for an M4A1

do you not understand the fallacy using cost to justify a weapon's balance?

if you don't, I can't convince you, but it's not me just making this up

[vague island]

I do not understand your problem. Why do I at 2k hours have no problem fighting against the Dolch, and you with your 4k hours - have?

When somebody tells you - nah, Dolch is acceptable, you just say "you feel wrong" and again list the Dolch stats to show that it needs to be deleted from the game

[rare vortex]

Sure I can have no problem fighting against it. Does it mean it's balanced? No.

Does it create pressure by how the weapon performs? yes

[vague island]

It is an S-Tier weapon and was designed to be one. It costs as such. It is rare as such. And it performs as such

[rare vortex]

...

Dude.

"ahead of its time" is not how to justify game balance.

fuck history

game is not historical non fiction

its takes inspiration from firearm history

not stick to it

Game is a game before a historical gun simulator

[vague island]

It is not about realism, it is about game balance and economy. All weapons this way or another are separeted into tiers.

And Dolch was intended to be and S-Tier by the developers. It may be nerfed to be harder to use (gunplay and all), but conceptually it must remain a 700$ Dolch. Not because it is historical, but because it was designed this way

[rare vortex]

Like I said, if you want to say the weapon is fine because of cost
It's the same as letting me pay 3000 Hunt Dollars for an SMG in some years

I don't care how much it costs if it one taps to head and is semi automatic

neither will other people

because if I win with it I get to keep it anyway and use it again

[vague island]

From your logic everyone would only use Dolch

But as you can see, they don't

[rare vortex]

Because people aren't fucking robots

and don't subscribe to meta

unless they choose to

[crystal plume]

I can afford approximately 1856 dolches atm

[rare vortex]

mosin-dolch is indisputably a meta

[vague island]

They would subscribe, if the Dolch was so OP. Simply because it would be an only compatible option. But they don't, because Dolch is acceptable from the point of balance

[crystal plume]

Some people prefer variety and integrity over being meta slaves

I'm one of the ones that prefer variety

If I wanted to join them, I'd use mosin dolch every match like a lot of other people in my matches

[vague island]

They would not, if Dolch was so ubarably powerful as some imply

[rare vortex]

Just because its powerful doesn't mean you wouldn't be bored using it yourself

Refer to what Diiba said

Something being meta, doesn't mean people will inevitably use it

people aren't programmed to meta

[vague island]

So what is the point of discussion? In the end we see the game balance differently

I could begin discussion regarding that CC Slugs must be nerfed or deleted from the game too, but I don't

[rare vortex]

your argument for the current balance of the Dolch being fine as is rests on its pickrate and price, which are not constant consistent variables

[vague island]

they are

[rare vortex]

No they are not.

[vague island]

they are actually the most consistent variables in any competetive game

[vital fractal]

The only issues I see with the dolch at the moment is the addition of FMJ and Dum Dum to it

[vague island]

Dolch Dum Dum is a joke

[rare vortex]

Someone who wins a lot and easily earns is not exerting as much effort out of their money to afford Dolches

[vital fractal]

Dolch doesn’t need any more pressure, and definitely didn’t need FMJ

[vague island]

Strange Crytek didn't give it Strong Bleed

[vital fractal]

Honestly dolch was fine as is before the buffs

[rare vortex]

Someone who has 300k and earns 10k a day of play
does not care about the 750 price of a dolch

[coral pulsar]

I don't play with the dolch on principle. The dolch is not fine. It removes all effort needed for kills. The nitro is balanced better.

[vague island]

Fun fact about weapon balancing in games: it always comes from the statistics. If the Dolch was so op, it would be used much more often, and therefore, would be nerfed much often. In simply works this way

[rare vortex]

The irl comparison is saying that it costing 150k to bail yourself out of jail is balanced, when wealthy people do it all the time

while normal people cannot afford to bail themselves out of jail

[vague island]

I would remind you the case with the Avtomat and dual Sparks pistols. It was pathced in a few month, because THAT was unbalanced and people talked about it

Don't see much talk around Dolch

[coral pulsar]

Lol what?

You don't hear the "mosin/dolch" complaints daily?

[vague island]

No

[coral pulsar]

Not counting the people who just gave up on complaining about because it does nothing

[vague island]

I am from Russian server, dude. Dolch and Mosin here are a meme

[coral pulsar]

Well on east, the most popular server, its an issue.

[rare vortex]

meta is a meme? ???

[vague island]

Yes

[rare vortex]

Go ahead and tell that to the face of long ammo meta

[vague island]

Mosin+Dolch is OP, I wouldn't argue on that. But it is what it is, and the problem goes from the fundamental way inventory works

[rare vortex]

Tell me that the statistics say mosin-dolch doesn't get excessively picked in 5-6 MMR

[vague island]

On 5 MMR - no

[rare vortex]

In your personal experience no.

[vague island]

6 MMR is not about fun, as any top-mmr in competetive games

[rare vortex]

Across the complaints and more than just my own experience, yes

[coral pulsar]

wtf, you just said dolch is Op... aight /close thread

[rare vortex]

therefore meta is not a meme

you are not being consistent with your arguments bro.

[vague island]

Dolch and Mosin does not == Dolch

[rare vortex]

I'm done too. You're not consistent

[vague island]

To fix it you will need to destroy both Mosin AND Dolch, because whatever their stats, they will remain OP together just due to the way they work

[rare vortex]

@crystal plume I don't know if I missed a reply or not, did you have an idea of how to approach the Dolch to give it a weakness?

[crystal plume]

^

[rare vortex]

Oh my bad yeah I did see that

[rare vortex]

do you have an idea how exactly you think it should be? like making it floaty recoil so spamming accurately is difficult or higher recoil like Officer and Cyclone were tried?

[vague island]

Just for the sake of experiment

Should Crown&King and Slate with Slugs be nerfed?

[crystal plume]

Not sure honestly

Slugs go from extremely strong to extremely weak as soon as you hit limbs

[vital fractal]

Slugs are fine as is tbh

[rare vortex]

Its that really

Slugs are a tradeoff on shotguns

[coral pulsar]

^

[vital fractal]

If anything I’d say maybe increase the amount for the LeFat and Romero, for reserve

[rare vortex]

you're trying to ADS in CQB and if you hit an arm you're fucked

[vital fractal]

It’s so bad lmao

[coral pulsar]

Much harder to center mass slugs

[vital fractal]

Point blank 147 in the armo

And it’s centermass TOP TORSO

[coral pulsar]

Yeah I have 2k hours and I've only ever picked up a dolch 3 times in a match and wiped an entire team with it.

[vital fractal]

Dolch was fine pre-buff

You don’t see a dolch without FMJ now

Because there’s no downside to it now

[vague island]

Nah, I have a bad aim

[coral pulsar]

What was the down side before?

[vital fractal]

Lack of pen

[rare vortex]

its pretty much a straight upgrade like how nobody minds the lower MV on shredder

[coral pulsar]

It couldn't pen at all before?

[vital fractal]

And it was relatively still compact damage fall off

[rare vortex]

because its perfectly fine MV at 390

[vital fractal]

Very weak pen, still usable just now with FMJ it’s insane

[rare vortex]

if Dolch FMJ was like 250 MV, people would have a problem

[vague island]

People struggling to understand Dolch was designed to be almost without flaws by the developers... What a beautiful sight

[vital fractal]

And it was special already so ammo consumption is the same

[vital fractal]

Not really

[crystal plume]

You know people are perfectly able to simply not agree with what the devs think

And that is perfectly fine

[rare vortex]

Not a problem using it, just a problem agreeing if they should equip FMJ or not

[vital fractal]

Dolch simply shouldn’t have custom ammo like FMJ

That’s my point

[rare vortex]

rn if you're saying Dolch is better without FMJ just because you want the 440 MV over 390 MV, then something seems off

[vital fractal]

• they reduced recoil for some reason??

[vague island]

True

[vital fractal]

Exactly, there’s no reason to NOT take FMJ

[rare vortex]

don't think this is true? there are no notes for it

[vital fractal]

Hence it’s a straight upgrade like someone said above…

Though I feel like people ignore base nitro ammo will one tap arms at up to 16m which low skill people like me can benefit from lol

[vital fractal]

Last update wasn’t that addressed?

For ToC?

[vague island]

FMG is a better option for almost any other weapon in the game, compared to standart ammo

[vital fractal]

Or was it Desolation?

[rare vortex]

The general consensus is that FMJ benefits anything under long ammo

[vital fractal]

Well yeah, it’s A straight upgrade on compact ammo

[rare vortex]

it's like giving the short brother compact ammo some stilts

[vague island]

For the clarity: I to do not understand why would they add custom ammo to Dolch too, as it was ok before. But it is still okay now, as I said

[rare vortex]

it didn't create a problem, but it didn't solve anything either

it just made an okay thing better, for no reason at all
EDIT: statistics seen by Crytek might say the dolch has a low pickrate, but that should be fine and didn't need any reaction. Price influences pickrate but the weapon in no practical use was weak without FMJ

[vital fractal]

Ah the dolch Dual wield spread was reduced

That’s what it was, not recoil

Still, a buff that wasn’t needed lol

On top of the dead eye

And I don’t think it’s ok, FMJ took away a weakness from the dolch- something the dolch didn’t need

[vague island]

Dual Dolch are still close to unusable, no? Just a meme weapon

[fervent nimbus]

The european servers are so bad today... the lentacy is over the top...

[dusky tapir]

yeah which is why they walked back most of its upsides. 🥴

[dusky tapir]

I would like to ask specifically about dolch fmj. I see more of a trend with custom ammo in general and this time it just so happens we got an egregious addition

problem is, asking it in a way that doesn't result in a million people piling on is gonna be toug

[rotund obsidian]

@pearl summit #feedback message were you.... in a firebomb? or lantern flames? :L

Perhaps it was alert tripmines?

Those burn off 10hp EACH and if you were burning, you have hp charred so it will ignite you with even one alert mine.

[quaint cloak]

@subtle root I have to believe that on that Nagant hatchet, the hatchet it meant to be removed before it's used

[pearl summit]

my killer fire bomb me, I press necro on 75 HP, and after I stood up my health jump on 50 immideatly

[rotund obsidian]

The firebomb went off (hit you) before you stood up or did you stand when you heard it get lit?

[pearl summit]

I stood up in flames. And game burn my 25 health instant, cause on intense burning

[rotund obsidian]

i mean being in fire burns you incredibly fast. you're both ON fire, and taking extra burn from the fire at your feet.

25 gone before you can even move from a necro sounds about right

[pearl summit]

but why when I stood up I have intense fire on me? why not little one?

[rotund obsidian]

because you're standing inside of a firebomb? :L

[pearl summit]

when u entering fire - It start to build up on u, small - medium - intense
but when u stood up in flames - its immediately intense
can u feel a difference?

[subtle root]

iirc this not the case, as the reason it was oriented in the way it is in the photo was to act as a pseudo stoclk

[quaint cloak]

That it also correct, it's to use as a stock, but if you want to chop something, the hatchet and gun are separated....not saying a Nagant Hatchet wouldn't be cool, it would just need to be a different design.

[languid jay]

@rare vortex though i do agree that dolch needs a nerf, or perhaps a whole rework, i think that reducing magazine size would be a minor bandaid fix at best

other stats could be adjusted, like passive sway, ADS speed, hipfire spread or firerate

[vital fractal]

What’s the question

I ask as someone who doesn’t care about getting pinged lmao, it’s known at this point

[languid jay]

the dolch gets more ammo from special ammo crates and player ammo boxes than even long ammo and reducing that to be the same with it, even though its special ammo, would be a good start

i would be okay if the dolch had poison ammo, but giving it 2 of the 3 most oppressive ammo types ( dumdum, fmj, high velo/spitzer ) was a really stupid decision and should just be removed or have an ammo penalty

i could see making the dolch reload with stripper clips of 5 twice for a full reload being an okay option as it would take double the time it is now while also making it have a high risk high reward play style if chosing to not fully reload

not to mention the already slow per bullet reload

[thorny spindle]

You were already burning on the floor, so when you stood up it immediately set intensive fire on you.

[languid jay]

it built up as you stood back up from the floor, starting from light burn immediatly as you got ressed, medium and heavy while you stood up

[rare vortex]

The issue with the gun being stronger than it needs to be isn't in its reloads

it has to do with that as soon as you pull it out, you have 10 rounds back to back

This is why I have suggested lowering its immediate capacity to 4-6

The second highest capacity on a 2 tapping weapon is the Nagant Officer at 7 rounds

[vague island]

So you basically want to make Dolch worse than Nagant?

[vague island]

You do realize that even with the 6 round mag Dolch will easily wipe duos and trios, right?

[rare vortex]

Will Crytek ever kill the Dolch? no

[vague island]

Like basically any gun that can double tap

[rare vortex]

We shouldn't have semi-auto spammers in the first place

look how badly the bornheim is used

[vague island]

Can't wait to see the FMJ on Officer Nagant, it will be a gorgeous shitstorm out here

[vague island]

See it regulary, btw

But I agree, Bornheim is a toy gun

[rare vortex]

They would never add FMJ on compact high MV pistols

thats not the style they want

The trend has been medium FMJ/dumdum
meanwhile compact has been HVed/given FMJ to glow it up

but only on weapons that sport 400 and below

in MV

[vague island]

Wanna bet?

[rare vortex]

it's not their style

[vague island]

Aha

[rare vortex]

They added FMJ to the Dolch

before they even considered giving it to more compact ammo pistols

of which, you have dinky bornheim which FMJ would seem odd, and nagant is also a bit dinky

[vague island]

Well I am sure there will be more funny FMJs soon

Just a question of time

[rare vortex]

The only natural FMJ has always been winfields and new army's

among compact ammo

[rare vortex]

It's a step and not expecting a suggestion to guarantee a specific result

and this is still a hypothetical

I can easily also say "you do realize the bornheim match can wipe whole teams right?"

[vague island]

I can assure you, Dolch will never have a 6 ammo mag

[rare vortex]

yet people do not use bornheims

as intended, with HV to headshot

It should have a 6 round mag

[vague island]

Bornheim is actually an example of what happens when devs nerf a gun to the ground

If you have 4k hours, you should know it was once like a Dolch basically

But people cried

[rare vortex]

And they killed it and it's still an uncommon pick

[vague island]

Yeah, well, mb it is uncommon beacuse they killed it? 🤡

[rare vortex]

Even in kits where the bornheim could work, the nagant officer is still a better pick and cheaper

[vague island]

So you simply want the same fate for Dolch

I see

[rare vortex]

you're willingly replacing your nagant officer potential with a pistol that requires 3 tap and 1 less bullet on tap

even if full loaded

No, the Dolch can stay 2 tap but not as a league above the "normal" pistols

[vague island]

Well, as we discussed yesterday, Dolch was designed to be a league above in the first place

It was in the game before most of the spamming pistols even appeared

[rare vortex]

Okay and I'm making a case for why it shouldn't

[vague island]

Yet it will stay the way it is, most likely

[rare vortex]

People told me that the avtomat w/ 2x sparks pistols and +11 ammo resupplies off common ammo worldboxes was fine, and that crying was a skill issue

look where we are now with it.

[vague island]

As we can see, people tend to disagree on your position about Dolch

[rare vortex]

Make your own fucking case dude.

You tend to have holes in your argument but like to just poke at mine

[vague island]

Exactly. If the people did cry indeed about Dolch as much as they did about Avtomat, it would be long time nerfed

But it is as it is for years now

[delicate robin]

my take on this is that the dolch itself isnt the problem, its just FMJ

Quite literally they should just remove FMJ from the Dolch or heavily nerf it.

[vague island]

With slight gunplay nerfs

Yet again, because Dolch is not so outrageously powerful just to remove it from the meta

[rare vortex]

even without the FMJ it still works very similar

The wallbang potential it gained hasn't changed how its used

[delicate robin]

It's not about wallbanging, it's about range.

Dolch FMJ can two-tap to the chest up to 40 meters.

[rare vortex]

often being Mosin-shot body tag or miss to quickswapping into dolch spam to hit another body shot, 2x body shot, or headshot

[rare vortex]

Ah yes my bad, I forgot about 2 tap increasing

[vague island]

Aha. And if you nerf Dolch, what will change? Still tag by Mosin + bodyshot from Dolch

[delicate robin]

Without special ammo I think the Dolch is fine because:
-97 damage
-the reload is painfully slow
-ammo stock is very limited, if you're running a dolch you're either committing really hard to the loadout or you're probably going to need an ammo box
-recoil is harsh (Precision is a completely different story and tbh I think if any specific part of the Dolch should be nerfed it's the Precision.)
-Nagant officer, New Army, and Spitfire get the benefit of special ammo types.
-And least of all it's expensive. I know that doesn't mean a whole lot to most people, especially in the 5-6 star range, but it is a downside.

[vague island]

As I said before, the Dolch+Mosin combo will remain OP whatever you do to them, if only you don't destroy both Mosin and Dolch

[rare vortex]

And who says that small pool of votes who choose to look at the post have an argument that people agree with for why the dolch is fine?

[delicate robin]

Its just that

Crytek did a HUGE whoopsie giving it dumdums and FMJ

two of the most potent ammo types in the game

[vague island]

The pool is always small, its just statistics

[rare vortex]

The way the vote system works in this suggestions channel, its either "wholly agree/I'll think about this suggestion/I disagree with it entirely or some parts"

[vague island]

Dum Dums on Dolch are ok, its more of a nerf actually

[delicate robin]

I just don't think Dolch should have special ammo in general. Dumdums are definitely the lesser of the evils here, but I just think that it's poor design to make something as strong as the Dolch have options like bleed and FMJ.

[rare vortex]

Ideally the Dolch should not have FMJ, and should not have a 10 round spam + swift reload

[delicate robin]

It takes away a little bit of what made the Nagant Officer/New Army/Spitfire special vs it.

[vague island]

Agreed here. But they won't just remove it from the game

[vague island]

6s reloading is swift?

[rare vortex]

by having 10 rounds at a spam firerate, it overshadows the officer/spitfire/newarmy

[delicate robin]

Then Dolch special ammo should be heavily nerfed

because rn there's effectively zero downside to Dolch FMJ

and its

very busted

[rare vortex]

you're getting another 10 rounds out of that. The duration of the reload still outclasses officer individual reloads/spitifre individual reloads or 9 seconds for 6 rounds/new army suffers compact damage carry/lowest mv of all pistols

[vague island]

another 10 rounds of your total 20

[rare vortex]

9 seconds for 6 rounds spitfire is an empty cylinder

PERFORMANCE is all that matters.

please, ugh fuck...

your arguments...

price, the available ammo, the reload speed
DO NOT AFFECT
the first 10 rounds immediately available to spam when the pistol is first pulled out

[vague island]

You are so funny dude, I just can't

Making my day second time in a row

[rare vortex]

Dude. I'm talking about the serious analysis of how to balance an overtuned weapon

[vague island]

You are not

[rare vortex]

and you're here saying well this remotely related variable should be nerfing it right?

[vague island]

Sorry, but you are just crying after someone killed you with the Dolch again

[rare vortex]

it costing 690 or 750 or 10000 hunt dollars to acquire

does not affect the moment the gun gets equipped and starts firing

[vague island]

And when I give you my arguments you just "uuaghahahaahahah fuck you"

Deep analysis as we can all see

[rare vortex]

Because I'm expecting you to make at least a reasonable argument

Diiba was making some

[vague island]

The only thing that may be nerfed about Dolch is it's overall gunplay and its damage drop carve

[rare vortex]

The overtuned part of the weapon is how it performs realtime, not that its expensive to run, or not picked very often you think, or it has a "long" reload

the reload happens after 10 rounds

[vague island]

Things you offer to do are basically "Let's delete Dolch from the game pls"

[rare vortex]

and if they haven't killed you in 10 rounds, they have different problems to worry about

[vague island]

Reminds me how Flash Bombs were "nerfed"

aka utterly destroyed

[rare vortex]

No. I have offered to make Dolch closer to what other options we have available

My argument has not been read.

[vague island]

Why do you fail to realise Dolch was SPECIALLY designed by devs to have a 10 mag spamming weapon? It just shocks me to the core

[rare vortex]

And does that make it right and ultimately true? No.

[vague island]

If it was wrong, Dolch would long time be a 6-mag gun

But it isn't

[rare vortex]

Bro.

What happened to the avto?

we already talked about it

I'm just leaving chat now

[vague island]

Thank you

[rare vortex]

You're not taking in all the information provided

and that is necessary to keep the discussion moving forward without constant reminders

reiterating topics already spoken about

[vague island]

says the guy that posted literally 2 identical posts in one day

totally bruh situation

[rare vortex]

This "dolch is fine because it isn't changed yet and its in the game as the devs intended" argument is already expired

because the case that disproves it is how the avtomat was treated

[vague island]

Can I say "Dolch must be nerfed!!" argument is already expired too?

[vague island]

You fail to see one thing

That from the point Avtomat+Sparks combo appeared to the point of their nerf only a few months have passed

[rare vortex]

Provide proof that the Dolch is perfectly balanced as is

[vague island]

And Dolch is the way it is fror years

[vague island]

Provied proof that it is not

[rare vortex]

The argument that something is fine just because it exists in its current state, is a fucking flaw

[vague island]

The argument that something is op because it has 10 bullets too

[rare vortex]

Peacekeeper redskull reviving is not fine, but it exists.

Oh man it must be balanced because its not hotfixed

[vague island]

Only for this event, I am sure

[rare vortex]

No. The devs just have chosen not to hotfix

And devs are humans, not all knowing gods

every change approved by development does not guarantee positive results

If anything, the Dolch does not get the attention of the development much in terms of pulling back on it, because it already has been receiving nerfs in the past bit by bit

and it is picked less often in the majority of the playerbase, which is around 4 stars

[crystal plume]

Avtomat was nerfed multiple times and the last time isn't long ago at all

[delicate robin]

Dolch was worse than it is now for years and then only started getting serious nerfs after a while
There's a precident for Crytek nerfing long-standing things if they're unhealthy for the game.

[crystal plume]

And even now it's still extremely strong, only thing holding it back is it thankfully being somewhat rare to see and the fact that you need 4 consumables ammo boxes to keep it stocked up otherwise it becomes a non threat as soon as you finish that one mag

[delicate robin]

(Which I think Dolch FMJ is. I fucking hate Dolch FMJ so much.)

[rare vortex]

People also were on both sides of Nitro being fine or not. It wasn't as hot of a topic as the avto. However, it still received a nerf

[crystal plume]

Nitro shredder should still be nerfed, it was fine originally before any buffs and while it was still called dumdum

It should do less damage than base ammo, I don't understand why people saw that as a problem

It was already better for pvp purely thanks to the heavy bleed at the range where you commonly used the nitro anyways

[delicate robin]

I also think Nitro shouldn't have custom ammo in general lol

[rare vortex]

Shredder should be reworked differently than just increasing one tap range at the cost of wallbang pen

It's just one of those things that existed in Hunt that you accepted but it didn't make sense why

[jagged wagon]

@bronze snow While I don’t hate your suggestion, I still feel in the vast majority of cases people would still leave. If they brought a sniper, they want to snipe, a few might stay on and switch to their less preferred loadout, but the majority won’t. They simply don’t want to play that weather type.

[bronze snow]

I disagree, I think the fact they don't know they're going into that weather is the main issue. Sure some might just want to snipe that day so they'll leave, but I think the main gripe players have with weather is that they can't be prepaired for it. Feel like there is a lot of tension there.

[jagged wagon]

I can be prepared to put on a rain coat and hood and walk to the shops in a rain storm if I needed too, but if I can simply wait for it to stop and be a nicer day before I go, I will.

[rotund obsidian]

Should gimp the resupply. Now that penny and starshell gives a non-standard amount, the tech definitely exists to give less bullets back for dumdum/fmj for the dolch

I know dolch resupply already sucks but that's because it already relies on special boxes

I mean i'd be in favor of just dumpstering the dolch in general but god forbid they nerf the stats on a gun

[vital fractal]

Or instead of altering a mistake already we can show crytek that the Undo button exists :/

Seriously, they can remove custom ammo from a gun

That’s An action that is available, yet they never do

They can remove FMJ and Dum dum from Dolch

Like they have this policy of never undoing their updates to the arsenal

I don’t know if it’s out of pride or what, but it really seems like they just hate admitting they were wrong to add certain weapons, variants, and ammos

I would LOVE to hear from a crytek official why they never just, undo additions to the arsenal

It’s a topic they just ignore

Same with the lack of balancing updates during events

[silver wraith]

Stop giving back trait points for removed traits or health chunks. Everyone has fanning and levering right from the start, I miss when you had to earn traits you wanted.

[mild herald]

hi all . I have a question . can I turn off easy anti cheat when entering the game?
don't play it and just sit in the game menu with anti cheat turned off?

[vague island]

Thy game will simply shut down without it (as happens when EAC crushes)

[vital fractal]

Genuinely think tier 3 and Legendaries should just get 5 points at the beginning and that’s it-

[silver wraith]

I wouldn’t be mad at that. I just hate how everyone has fanning, levering, and necro without even having to play a match.

[rotund obsidian]

11 minimum was definitely a bit much

[vague island]

Dunno, 11 is good

I don't use fanning and life is beautiful

[vital fractal]

Every match is Necro, Resilience, Bloodless start + 1 point perk lol

Hunters need to earn their trait points, not start with a set of gameplay enhancing perks

[rotund obsidian]

u gotta have some crazy ass rng to actually get 11 points worth of shit you want though

it's 8 points minimum to spend after refunds

which is still a pretty hefty amount

[vague island]

8 points is actually perfect (for me)

it is a great system, don't think Crytek should nerf it

when you meet someone with Fanning - it doesn't matter how did he get it, after all

[rotund obsidian]

I'll have to agree with this part, honestly. Annoying traits are gonna be annoying anyway, and I'd rather they just rebalance stuff instead of trying to balance in-game performance with an out-of-game economy.

[coral pulsar]

How the fk we have two posts about the dolch, one saying nerf it, the other saying lower the price, and they're both downvoted to hell?

[vague island]

because people are okay with dolch as is, mb?

[coral pulsar]

That makes sense but my gut tells me thats not the reason.

[coral pulsar]

@alpine gust Yeah no. People love to think this isn't a pvp game. Its why its never become mainstream popular.

[vital fractal]

Not really, I get it 80% of the time

[rotund obsidian]

I mean, the EXACT 11 points you want. if you're happy with anything then sure

[vital fractal]

Dolch is not fine as is, it didn’t need the buffs to dual wield and it definitely didn’t need FMJ or Dum Dum

[vital fractal]

I’m just saying, 5 points is enough to make tier 3s and Legendaries above tier 2/1 but also still means you need to win matches to actually have a decent set up unlike now where you can load in with a good set up from the get go

[rotund obsidian]

I do think 11 was a bit much, definitely. I was a bit sad to see that they decided on buffing legendaries but at least we sorta got a halfway since they also nerfed recruits.

I'd rather have just nerfed recruits a bit more and given legendaries a lower minimum. No minimum would fucking suck though since they did the trait selection changes

[vital fractal]

Uh no, “at least we” mentality is bullshit lmao

We are still not where we ought to be lmao

[rotund obsidian]

fucking bolt thrower + hundred hands + blade seer. shit is ass

but yeah it's still in a bad spot

[hot vigil]

Just buff gator legs to 2 points the most fucking stupid nerf in Hunt history needs to be undone

[vital fractal]

People bitch about not having traits, it’s part of the game

You die, your new hunter doesn’t have fancy abilities until you earn them

Want a fast firing gun? Pay up

Or win a match and run fanning after

Want quick large heals? Win a match or pay for large vitals

Crytek really trying to get rid of the hardcore portion of this game to the point where death doesn’t matter

[hot vigil]

Words of a distant past

[rotund obsidian]

I'm conflicted on that front because i'd personally prefer a game where teams are on an even playing field from loading in, but I do feel like it's a very difficult leap to change that without completely gutting the core of the game. I'd settle for just nerfing the busted ass guns though, and making traits less annoying.

The abundance of trait points has only exacerbated my issues with a lot of shit though

[hot vigil]

I feel lowering the starting trait points to 5 would be healthy, making each Hunter start with 1-2 traits.
It is wild you can just invest into Necro, Iron Eye and bloodless out of the gate

[vague island]

Dum Dum enjoyer can be seen from afar

[hot vigil]

It was just an abitary choice of a good 3 perk point trait :)

[rotund obsidian]

I think around 8 or 9 ish would be fine, so 5 or 6 after refunding them.

much lower than that and it's just a slot machine like before

then it just falls back to recruits being meta again since they still come with a pretty hefty amount of points and often have quartermaster + more

[hot vigil]

Mjah, maybe 5-6 and then 4-5 after refund. Again, don't think strong traits like Necro should be a gurantee, that said necro could also get increased to 6 points..

[rotund obsidian]

I'd like to see necro nerfed in general tbh, so yeah i wouldnt mind that at all

resilience too fuck that trait

I'd like necro to just burn off hp 😈

[hot vigil]

That trait was fine with 100 hp, didn't need buff

[vital fractal]

Lmao from MMR alone that’s not happening

5 trait points or even 4 is totally balanced for a new person

With tier 2 having 3 and tier 1 having 1 point

Simple, new hunters- get new traits

If you won a match, you deserve to start with an upper hand compared to new hunters

[hot vigil]

That said don't give us like 24 points after one win only haha.
It is wild how feast or famine this whole system is.

[languid jay]

because of how compact and medium ammo are basically the same right now,
having the dolch have a smaller mag than the officer, while also having the new army have the same damage, the same ammo types and a quicker swift reload would be a horrible state to put the dolch in, literally makes it a more spammy, slower reloading new army swift with slightly higher velocity

i think the proper fix youre looking for to avoid spam would be a slower firerate and a slower reload
reducing the mag size wouldnt solve anything if you dont also address the firerate or reload
same firerate with the same or better reload wouldnt make a difference in gameplay style, it would just mean longer, more boring fights due to needing to reload more, sucks for both parties

shooting faster (0.4 cycle speed) than the officer (0.5 cycle speed) , new army (0.5 cycle speed), spitfire (0.8 cycle speed) and even the vetterli cyclone (0.6 cycle speed) is fucking stupid, not addressing this would mean the new army takes the spot the dolch did

the bornheim and bornheim match isnt an issue because of its body multipliers AND its medium slot, if it had FMJ it would effectively be spammier dolch p

[rotund obsidian]

shit if the dolch got nerfed hard enough for the fucking new army (💀) to take its spot, that'd be a W in my book

[languid jay]

yeah same here, im just saying that with the proposed nerfs it just means there no reason to take the dolch over the new army

back when it was introduced as a medium ammo gun

people still knew it was busted as all hell

just brought a vetterli as ammo supply for it

and used purely dolch

i think even making the normal dolch medium slot and the dolch p a big slot would be an alright pick, forcing people to play obrez or drilling handcannon or something

nerfs their rifle / shotgun

nerfs their spam pistol

[rotund obsidian]

yknow, from a balance perspective i actually kinda like that idea, but it'd kinda fuck up dualies and also it wouldnt make a whole lot of sense for dolch pistol to be a medium slot.

[languid jay]

im thinking dualies would just be a big slot also

fucks up people having them stored on extra hunter slots though

[vital fractal]

Ok dolch is strong but it’s not strong enough to be a med slot

[frozen crater]

dolch p performs basically on the same level as the nagant carbine

i think it even has better bullet dropoff when fmj is used

still loling at the fmj addition

loling at the dolch in general

a high hunt buck price shouldve never been used as a justification for insane weapon performance

[rotund obsidian]

yeah the dolch and the officer carbine have the same two tap range i think, so fmj just gives the dolch 10 extra meters over the officer carbine

[hot vigil]

Just extend the barrel slightly and give it +2 damage and +10mv.
I would extend the 2-tap from 39m to 40m
But I take that to remove it from 2-slot to 3-slot

[thorny spindle]

Dolch FMJ still confounds me

Just like, why?

What compelled them to add that?

To be fair, dolch is OP as fuck without FMJ, so with it it honestly don’t make that much of a difference

[coral pulsar]

Devs should have never made the dolch

I run modest loadouts and sit at 5* consistently. Anytime I pick up a dolch off the ground I wipe a trio. Its just fking stupid.

[hot vigil]

Then you haven't consider it pushes the 2-tap range from 39m to 49m :p
And chest + arm from 24m to 34m.
That is a huge consistency boost to the gun and it still shoots 390m/s bullet with FMJ.

Upper/Lower chest tapping from 31m to 41m

And lower chest two tap from 20m to 30m

[thorny spindle]

That’s still redonck

[vital fractal]

I just wonder if they will ever remove the stability bonus to the drilling hatchet

[thorny spindle]

The only other gun that can do that is a 3-slot with 7 rounds lol

[vital fractal]

Like I love the gun but… there’s zero reason to use the non hatchet version

[coral pulsar]

Probably not. It's not enough of an issue to change plus the drilling/s are just not worth the money.

@frozen crater Good idea but then you'd get people raging even harder because they have the trait and their teammates don't rez them.

[rotund obsidian]

i still think its a bit crazy that the drillings get 20 reserve when the scottie p only gets 12

crytek pls giv more bullets in the scottie p

i'd take half a cylinder

[frozen crater]

I think the main problems associated with my idea are the icon cluttering the screen (easy problem to fix with cryteks digital artists) and people being too eager to res someone with resilience.

I think the more info randoms can give to each other post-death is worth it for an unspecified amount of frustration people experience on the off chance their teammates dont res them at good times

[queen jungle]

IMO that's the sort of info you should get beforehand via your partners instead of the game holding your hand like this.

[frozen crater]

I think its reasonable to have that icon since you cant even communicate at all with randoms when youre down

[queen jungle]

It's unnecessary. Revive your teammate or don't it's simply a risk you gotta take if they haven't told you about their traits.

[frozen crater]

In fact, I think Hunt's voip/team communication system is incredibly inefficient and should fastrack its communication changes as soon as possible

[languid jay]

i will point out that team voice chat for randoms is in the roadmap for this year

[queen jungle]

Yeah, having 3rd party comms somehow blocked would be nice, but that's impossible I'm afraid

[rotund obsidian]

it's my understanding that it's being added with the engine upgrade though

[frozen crater]

Premades have a huge communication advantage that an icon reminding your team about your res state should be fair

[frozen crater]

Which is why I said they should fastrack their communication changes asap

Did they specify that it was added during the map/engine/ui update?

[rotund obsidian]

I do wish that you could at least see teammate traits ingame through the escape menu. You can see it in the lobby before queueing but i don't be memorizing it

[frozen crater]

If so, then my suggestion would be pretty moot until randoms can talk afterwards

If comms remained the same, I still would think a resilience indicator would be pretty necessary for randoms

[rotund obsidian]

i think so, but i'm not sure

perhaps i made that connection in my own head i'll have to double check

[frozen crater]

I dont think we should expect randoms teammates to actively communicate their traits beforehand due to unreliability of randoms and due to the fact that randoms should be given equal access to comms as premades

[frozen crater]

yes you are probably a minority if youre in favor of limiting comms instead of increasing comms

[queen jungle]

So then why not add HP bars and buff/debuff bars straight away like any MMO does?

[queen jungle]

It would greatly increase immersion

[frozen crater]

Downed teammates do show their remaining bars tho

right

Im not sure what bars youre specifically referencing

[rotund obsidian]

I don't like the idea of an icon for it but I do think the information should be available somewhere without having to ask

[frozen crater]

agreed

Im 100% in favor of less UI

[rotund obsidian]

Like.. yknow. the escape menu that shows their whole loadout but conveniently leaves the bottom part empty where the traits go in the lobby?

[frozen crater]

but randoms wouldnt even have the chance to ask since downed teammates cant speak lol

[languid jay]

in the older dev insight vid, they said its going ot be added during the same time the other backend things are done, so it should be around the same time as the engine upgrade
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxEnO-6Csg2uDbdh57_tsJow6pAfYGOBTs?si=6H1uiD96lHOa4u-V

[frozen crater]

God I hope so

[frozen crater]

Well I already knew the changes David specified during this clip

[rotund obsidian]

yeah it wasn't tied directly to engine upgrade but I figure that's the most likely time

[frozen crater]

but does he say that its coming during the release of the engine upgrade?

[hot vigil]

As someone who likes the Drilling a lot and is highly biased towards that gun, I agree always wondered why Drilling comes with so many bullets.
It feels like a way to justify the price I guess, but would rather lose 4 reserve for a cheaper gun or better muzzle velocity on custom ammo for the gun.

[languid jay]

not explicitly no but realistically it should be slightly before or after the upgrade

[frozen crater]

I agree that immersion is important for deeply atmospheric games like Hunt, but you cant even type to teammates when youre downed

it is a HUGE disadvantage compared to premades

Im so glad crytek is planning on adding communication improvements for randoms

[frozen crater]

Im just hoping it turns out to be around this time

[hot vigil]

For me it is more simple question than if it is fair or balance or for immersion, most people play games with friends as a mean of being social.
So limiting comms would suck immensely for those people.

Most people don't jump on discord to gain an advantage, they just do it because they wanna hang and play games with their friends.

[queen jungle]

That's the good thing about being a mod: you don't have any friends

[vague island]

based

[vital fractal]

Enh… that’s not true for this game though lol

At least consoles utilize parties to silence the talk between teammates

The amount of times a random has invited me to a party specifically because of the sound being an issue is notable

Also the Drilling has the same amount of ammo on average as other medium ammo rifles

It seems like a lot since you’re always reloading but… a centennial has 21, vetterli has 24~ a Springfield has 25

I do agree that the precision version of any pistol should get a buff in ammo reserve though, maybe an extra half cylinder/magazine

Gotta account for the Uppercut P and Dolch P lol

[rotund obsidian]

I think scottfield p is the main offender, uppercut P still has 15 long ammo total, no reason for it to get more than rifles. dolch p obviously doesnt need more

I suppose nagant p could get a bit more as well but i don't think it's as dire

18 shots total for a medium ammo precision pistol is just not a lot to work with

less total than the reserve on the drilling, which also gets shotgun shells

[hot vigil]

I know that, but dunno, would happily give up 4 bullets for some other buffs to the gun.

[hot vigil]

To be fair, neither Uppercut or Uppercut P should have a mosin worth of bullets to begin with.
Make that gun 6/6

[vital fractal]

What other buffs though really- like the most I can think of is MV on dum dum but like, beyond that the drilling is a pretty well balanced gun

[hot vigil]

Price reduction or less mv loss on dum dum and FMJ, gun loses 30% m/s

[vague island]

Are you still discussing poor Dolch?

[vital fractal]

Just had a team spam bomb lance frags and almost kill us

Was funny, but no drilling rn

Again, I like the drilling hatchet a lot- it’s a great gun, that I don’t think should have had a hatchet variant due to being so versatile

But the hatchet has like no sway

At all

Comepared to the base which is super sway sensitive

It really seems like an oversight

[rare vortex]

Can't leave out that Dolch's ammo is not the same as compact ammo even if the damage at full effect is the same. The new army already is bottom of the bracket for lowest MV, making it least optimal for long range leading or catching people who are doing quick peeks

Dolch is around the tier of medium ammo, if not still medium ammo performance as it used to be medium ammo fed

Not comparable to the New Army with its slowest MV and still being fed compact ammo

two traits combined which are least optimal for ranged fighting against opponents who know how to move

In practice, the New Army's best trait is low recoil, making it the preferred choice for when enemies are too close for the low MV to matter, so it still gets to call itself #1 in lowest 2 tapping recoil high RoF but nowhere best option for range

[rare vortex]

I hope more people understand this

Just because a weapon costs a lot in the menu screen doesn't change how effective it is in gameplay

Especially when there aren't anti-stronger weapon counters like armor

I'm not advertising for Hunt to have armor, but there is a reason why other games have armor that can be improved while also having weapons that perform better than other options

You can always exchange the weapon in your hands for stronger options but not make your Hunter tank more damage or sustain higher DPS

We only have a few but they were band-aid fixes to counter explosive crossbow and special ammo debuff effects

When weapons start climbing raw DPS output there is no counter

[vital fractal]

I think what will solve all problems is a Slug Derringer tbh

Or a flechette derringer

[vague island]

Nitro Express Derringer

Once you shoot it, you lose your hand and only can use one-handed weapons to the end of the game

[vital fractal]

Real speak I want a Lemat Pennyshot

Though that may be too much powercreep

Then again with flare shot/dragons it already replaces a tool slot

Hard to say

[lean estuary]

That seems reasonable, especially with the derringer type

[lean estuary]

I’m for Armor in Hunt, I just think the movement and stamina penalty would be bad enough that not many people would take it

[lost stag]

ayyo hunt devs
yknow that button
the sbmm button
you should put it back

[tiny pivot]

It would be hilarious but I talked about this the other day

Would make pennyringer combined with it pretty ridiculous in terms of boss killing

I much prefer how the Drilling has pennyshot so you can kinda just have the double-tapping medium rifle and then extra ammo for a pennyringer if that’s what you wanna do for boss killing

[vague island]

@wanton imp auto animation is a suicide option when enemy is near

[wanton imp]

If you know an enemy is close then you obviously wanna deal with the enemy first before trying to get your beetle back.

[vague island]

beetling pointblank is often an option

[wanton imp]

of course but still either you explode the beetle in the enemies face or just exit instantly.

[vague island]

well, i just think that autoanimation will be a clanky descision, better the beetle utomatically get into inventory without it

[wanton imp]

me personally i think of it more of a convenience change because you gotta exit beetle then pick it up. my suggestion just removes the second part.

but yeah there will probably be that one small edge case where you die because of the animation.

[unborn dagger]

@upbeat slate the decoy dynamite kinda has this covered already but without it being a sticky.

[vital fractal]

The sticky dynamite has the explosive part of it down with the same 1 second ready up + slightly longer fuse if you want it to actually do some damage too

And it is throwable

FR we need a super agile beetle that can only do 2 things

1. Surveillance

2. Act as a speaker for VOIP

I wanna fuck with other players by holding conversations with them mid fight from a distance

[vague island]

genious

[timid oyster]

" Buzz buzz boi i see you im gonna give you away AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"

[pale gorge]

@heady silo
#game-ideas message

This thing looks wicked and id love to have a derringer that doubles as a weak melee weapon. But I'm trying to wrap my head around how someone would hold that thing? The grip looks like dusters but it seems backwards, like you'd have to flip the gun around to put your fingers through them.

[vital fractal]

“HES RIGHT HERE GUYS HES RIGHT HERE ITS RIGHT HERE HES RIGHT HERE SOUND THE ALARMS”

[twilit stag]

Please fix the hunt audio glitch. When rejoining on xbox all you can hear is disgruntled birds

[arctic flame]

@wanton imp dolch it’s the best pistol cuz is fucking OP

Don’t want reduce price on that shit

[weary fox]

While I do agree that the Dolch is the best pistol in Hunt currently, I honestly don't think it's op. It's just a premium gun that you pay at a premium price, it sounds cool, looks cool, functions cool. The only gripe I have is, why was the dolch given special ammo? It doesn't need FMJ or bleed, it's already quite oppressive on its own.

Hot take but I think Dolch is balanced in its current state, you MUST run ammo supplements for the gun to be effective in extended fights, and I think Dolch is one of the few guns that does make Bulletgrabber more of a necessity trait compared to a convenience trait.

[vague island]

Be wary, you are about to disturb the "delete Dolch from the game" club

[weary fox]

I'd rather the developers molest the Nitro, Avto, and overhaul shotgun slugs than even tweak Dolch tbh.

[vague island]

shotgun slugs are cursed

[weary fox]

"Teehee my crown can outperform Winfield 2 tap because I chipped a few extra bucks"

[vague island]

People crying for Dolch, when there is a one-tap team wiper in face of CC with slugs

[weary fox]

Shotgun slugs need an overhaul. I'm surprised the developers didn't see this coming though, but we are humans and can't foresee everything.

[weary fox]

People dislike the dolch THAT much? Jesus. Just saying, current Dolch has a solidified identity, the strong but pricey

[vague island]

I would understand if Crown got his slugs in the first wave, so to say. But for it slugs were added much later, when one-tapping entire squads from Caldwell has already become a noticable problem

[vague island]

Totally agree. Some guys here think that price doesn't matter in balancing though (which is totally wrong, but convincing them is useless)

[weary fox]

Let's price every gun at 1 doller

[vague island]

I am a melee focused player, yet I don't have that much problem with dolch (and CQC is where it shines), so maybe someone just needs to git gud instead of bombing the suggestion tread

[weary fox]

"Noooo! Dolch is way too overpowered! Nerf it! Remove it"

My dumbass sitting in a corner with a Alamo waiting for people to walk into me

Also for the record, I feel like an absolute champ when I manage to kill someone 15m away with Romero buckshot

[vital fractal]

Oh my fucking god are we starting this again

[weary fox]

That's right motherfucker! Here we go!

HEEEEYAWWWWW

[vital fractal]

You were beat down once, no need to beat you down again lmao

[weary fox]

Yet when I suggested an overhaul to slugs, I got majority upvotes

[vital fractal]

You’re talking to me about majority upvotes

[weary fox]

Yes >:)

[vague island]

Guys, better tell me how do I put a server emoji at my nickname 👉 👈

[vital fractal]

Then clearly there’s some studying to do lmao

[vital fractal]

Ask mod

[weary fox]

UwU

[vague island]

Mods are eepy

Another time then

[weary fox]

Look man, with all due respect. You cannot justify giving a shotgun the ability to outperform a shotgun's effective range man. Look I love taking in feedback and bettering (if this is a word) my opinions but, I can't see why I should be able to OHK someone outside of 18 meters

[vague island]

Shotguns with slugs can double-tap on up to 75 meters

It is not okay

[weary fox]

Ok let's not really talk about Crown, just by using the Romero as an example, by definition the worst shotgun in the game due to it not having a gimmick other than "haha best damage fall off"

It can 1 tap up to 20?+

Wtf

Whar

[vague island]

Make the slugs deal blunt damage, so that the damage-resistance trait would work on it

[weary fox]

HAHAHAHA you funny mate

[vital fractal]

You absolutely can when you go into actual game and see:

1. No one is doing that consistently or semi-commonly

2. The ammo usage alone means you won’t be doing that besides you can’t even headshot past 26m with long slugs so it’s MINIMUM 2 slugs which we all know limbs will be hit where you’ll need 3+ slugs for a single kill

The issue is you only get 9 slugs

At least on crown like you brought up

[weary fox]

We all run ammo supplements for our slugs man

[vague island]

9 slugs is basically 3 trios wiped clean

[weary fox]

I do it on the Rival and Romero

[vital fractal]

You say we all as if the hunt community is a majority of players that run your loadout

You can’t possibly know that

We definitely are not a monolithic population lol

[vague island]

Luisiana has fallen, billions must nerf Dolch

[weary fox]

You can't say just because not alota people are using it, means it's not an issue. Not a lot of people are using Dolch bleed vs Dolch FMJ but I can still acknowledge Dolch bleed being extremely oppressive in pistol ranges, more oppressive than officer bleed

[vital fractal]

And now congrats, 5 more slugs- what’s that going to do? 2 1/2 more kills at a range that you can get with a base Winnie with better effects a la FMJ, Fire, Poison, or better variants

Come on, don’t even try to bring up it out performs a rifle at range

[weary fox]

And as for the 2tap point, you CANNOT give shotguns, the ability to perform OUTSIDE of a shotgun's range

[vague island]

Actually, no. Dolch real combat rate of fire is lower that Nagants, due to the need of recoil control

[weary fox]

You cannot let it kill someone outside of 20+ meters unless they're extremely low

[weary fox]

Oh shit, mb g

[vital fractal]

You absolutely can for every weapon

Case in point again, Compact ammo rifles

They will do <40 damage at ranges they’ll ohk with a headshot

Yet at ranges under the drop off of long, a shot slug won’t even headshot

And in order to even get a OHK with a slug you need upper torso, of which is harder than just point and aim

[weary fox]

Because it's compact ammo rifles, compact ammo is serving its intended purpose. Imo, slugs should just eliminate the Shotgun's RNG nature, not give it extended range

[vital fractal]

In fact we have plethora of posts of slugs NOT killing within 10m because of limb hits that buck shot would’ve killed or penny even

[vague island]

The problem is, slugs themselves ruin the "rock-paper-scissors" principle of the game balance

[weary fox]

Buckshot doesn't kill on limbs either

[vital fractal]

If all pellet hit the limbs… but they spread

[weary fox]

You can't kill someone with buckshot on legs

Arms, you need 100% of the pellets

[vague island]

Yes, the buckshot onetaps at close range. But it is not guaranteed due to the randomized spread. Slugs on the other hand are guaranteed

[vital fractal]

You can’t kill someone with slugs in the legs

And also yes you can if it’s point blank and a Compact Shotgun

[weary fox]

Which is borderline impossible with the hitbox of the arm

[vital fractal]

But either way, that doesn’t support your argument with slugs lmao

[vague island]

@weary fox what was your slug remake idea? I just came up with one, wonder what are your thoughs

[vital fractal]

Buckshot spread allows easier use via a lack of need for ads due to no variable spread lmao- you can be more squirrelly with buck or penny unlike slugs which you need to ads to have any decent chance of hitting

[weary fox]

You're point is, "I paid a few bucks, so now my premium shotgun should able to kill someone outside of a shotgun's range, AND outperform Winfield's 2 tap"

[vital fractal]

Nice try but not at all my point

[weary fox]

Bandaid fix is just reduce the range on slugs, give it the ability to OHK on arms

Ideal fix is overhaul and cater it to each weapon individually

[vital fractal]

If what you are saying was really gospel, why don’t slugs have more use in ranged combat? Why is it so rare to see them as ranged options?

Truly?

We can see mosin everywhere

We can see HV Officer everywhere

HV Winnie everywhere

[weary fox]

Because people don't want to run the hassle of special ammo

[vital fractal]

Bullshit

[weary fox]

If I am willing to run special ammo boxes for my teammates, they'd run slugs dude

[vague island]

I would be okay with slugs, if they didn't remain so powerful pointblank. How does lowering their damage at close range sound to you?

So that they gain a 1-tap potential only in a strict area, say 8-12 meters, not closer, not furher

[vital fractal]

Special ammo is everywhere Bar long, and even then you see spitzer and incendiary

[vital fractal]

Would be worthless then

[weary fox]

Sure

[vital fractal]

Would be a straight downgrade on most shotguns lol

All I see is you’re seething over stats on a table vs actual reality

[weary fox]

You can't give a category of weapons a direct upgrade special ammo option

[vague island]

Actual reality is that CC or Slate with slugs easily wipes entire servers solo with no effort

[weary fox]

Slugs are inherently a direct upgrade

[vital fractal]

That’s not the gun, that’s the player

Want proof? Hornet uploaded a video wiping a server with machete and a base Nagant with Hv lol

No fanning either

[vital fractal]

I never said you should either

Reading comprehension

Please

[weary fox]

Dude you can't compare machete with HV nagant to slate slugs wtf

Slate slugs are borderline 2 weapons in one

[vital fractal]

My guy the point was it’s not the gun that matters- it’s the player to HIS “point” if you can call it one

Again

[weary fox]

HV nagant would tickle people at Winfield ranges

[vital fractal]

Reading comprehension please

[vague island]

Okay, @vital fractal, if you like thinking out of the table: imagine a situation, you are armed with a long ranged rifle, your enemy - with a Slug shotgun. He is in the compound with a bounty.

How would you approach?

[weary fox]

What reading comprehension? My point is slugs shouldn't give you 2 benefits for the downside of NOTHING

His point is also agreeing with mine

Your point is I pay money, I should get 2 benefits for the downside of none

[vital fractal]

I know he has a shotgun? And I have a long rifle?

Hold long sights like anyone with a rifle should, and guess what? If we both land our shots relatively normally- I’d win

Hence the long ammo meta in this game lol

[weary fox]

Even if you're only going for body taps, no headshots, a HV nagant would take 3 shots to down a guy at Winfield ranges

Slate slugs would turn that guy into a dead corpse just by putting 2 shots into his torso

[vague island]

He is playing as a shotgun player would - holding the compound. Not peeking. What will you do?

[vital fractal]

You just contradicted your self

Guess the special ammo “hassle” isn’t a hassle or it is and you don’t want to address doubling back + you ignored the lack of mobility compared to buckshot + the insanely rare times you’d use it as a primary for range as compared to a better idea like maybe… idk using a side arm??? Like tf you make it sound like slugs are instant win and a no brainer over a compact rifle or even pistol on some occasions

[vague island]

Special ammo initailly was meant to be a sidegrade, not an upgrade for a gun

[vital fractal]

Well I wait and hold, I’m patient and stubborn. Again, snipers do the same and it works well- there’s not enough info here though

[weary fox]

THIS

Slugs are basically a direct upgrade

[vital fractal]

The only place it’s really an upgrade is FMJ on compact/dolch and maybe shredder

[weary fox]

If you run special ammo, you should run boxes to supplement

[vital fractal]

Ah ah ah, not every case needs that- that’s opinion

[weary fox]

Everyone does this, even for the Avto which isn't even special ammo

[vague island]

So you will just sit for 45 mins, hoping that you would outsit him?

[vital fractal]

I’ve done it before, others have, and it works-

Because of the long ammo meta lol

And guess what?

It’s not even related to this conversation at this point lmao

Just saying, slugs are not as powerful as you guys make them out to seem lmao

[weary fox]

Let's not take shots at the other person's play style. If he has fun that's his issue

[vague island]

I just know that a good slug player is much more dagnerous than a good long ammo

[weary fox]

There is no downside to using them dude

[vital fractal]

There is though and to say otherwise is just false

[vague island]

Simply because bullets can be dodged, and when the situation goes CQC, long ammo is near useless

[vital fractal]

I’m not saying slugs suck, I’m saying there aren’t instant wins either

[weary fox]

What? Reduced ammo? Dude I give you the option to run boxes you don't want to run boxes

That's on you

[vague island]

They are

[vital fractal]

Especially that they do not blanket out perform compact ammo rifles like what

[weary fox]

You can't just throw away an option even though I gave you the luxury to

[vague island]

Most of the fights in the game never go further than 50-70 meters

This is already 2-tap zone of the slugs

[vital fractal]

“Wow I need to lose access to other consumables but that doesn’t matter!”

Bro, if you need to be dependent on a consumable that is 100% a downside

ON TOP OF THE OTHERS

[weary fox]

They're not instant wins, but they are direct upgrades that basically turn every multishot shotgun into a bootleg Winfield at range

[vague island]

CC with a slugs is the closest thing to the instawin in the game, sry

[weary fox]

That's every special ammo's downside

[vague island]

It doesn't get closer than that

[weary fox]

SLUGS THEMSELVES have no downside

Wow reduced ammo, oops I bring supplements

[vague island]

well

you need

[weary fox]

Dum dum reduces pen

[vague island]

to

[vital fractal]

Congrats you wasted 20-33% of your ammo on a single opponent if you landed 100% of your shots, with an ammo that has less pen, comparable velocity, and reload speed/handling platform compared to a basic compact FMJ rifle

[vague island]

aim...

[weary fox]

FMJ reduces MV

[vital fractal]

THEY ABSOLUTELY DO

Oh my god

[weary fox]

ok what is the downside?

Don't tell me shit like special ammo boxes

[vague island]

aiming is hard 👉 👈

[weary fox]

I already gave you the option of supplements

[vital fractal]

The lack of mobility for cqc

Lack of resupply

Aiming is easier with buck and penny

Better reserve

And it doesn’t limit you to certain shotguns + ai damage potential

[vital fractal]

Ease of aiming is a big thing but go off I guess

[vague island]

I tell you that 110 FOV players with slugs don't give a damn about the trouble of aiming at CQC

[vital fractal]

people with crazy skill and settings can aim

Hmm apply that to a majority of players please

[weary fox]

I legit don't get the aiming part, I run slugs vs buckshot, feels like a direct upgrade to me. Lack of resupply? HAH I BRING AMMO BOXES. Lack of mobility of CQC? Just resupply when you're safe, you're not engaging the enemy 100% of the time

No one uses buckshot for AI

Everyone uses penny

[vague island]

Majority of players can't one-tap at 15 meters range :)

[vital fractal]

“Feels like a direct upgrade to me”

“To me”

Yes. To YOU.

[vague island]

It is a direct upgrade

[vital fractal]

Yeah because they can’t aim for heads easily 🙂

[weary fox]

I would say that but majority of the community agrees with the sentiment that at the VERY VERY LEAST

[vital fractal]

It really isn’t though

[weary fox]

YOU CANT GIVE THE SHOTGUN EXTENDED RANGE BECAUSE OF AN AMMO TYPE

THIS ISNT FMJ BRO

[vague island]

Slug appreciator is seen from afar, as they say

[vital fractal]

But it always comes with the caveat, “if you can aim” AND GUESS WHAT, MOST PLAYERS CANT WELL ENOUGH

otherwise hv and spitzer would be the best ammos in the game bar none

[weary fox]

Blud if you can't 2 tap someone with a shotgun from 30-40 meters it's really on you

I'm not forcing you to go for heads

I don't go for heads with running slugs

[vital fractal]

That’s just reality, most players can’t no shame in it

[weary fox]

It's nothing big, I'm not asking you to snipe with slugs

[vital fractal]

Otherwise they’d be doing more often

[vital fractal]

You are lmao, out performing a Winfield all the time with slugs is a statement that kinda implies that but ok

[weary fox]

You CAN shame it if you using it as a crutch to win arguments on shit that desperately need changing on a fundamental level, but because "you can't aim" therefore everyone else should suffer for it

That's called being selfish

[vital fractal]

If it’s not occurring often then the suffering isn’t occurring on such a dramatic level is it?

And if it isn’t occurring often then is it a problem that is so drastic?

[weary fox]

True, oh wait, I see Crown Slugs every other match when I enter 5-6 stars

[vital fractal]

And then you ask hmm why isn’t it occurring so often

[weary fox]

DAMN

[vital fractal]

Oh wow, an option that rewards good aim is found in lobbies with good aim?

I guess you’ll also tell me about the spitzer you find too!

[weary fox]

Why not just instead, give slugs the capability to OHK on arms at close ranges, reduce the range to that similar of buckshot

Slugs' SOLE PURPOSE is to eliminate RNG from shotguns

That's the intended purpose

[vital fractal]

Romero slug and buck have similar ranges

There’s an issue with that already

[vital fractal]

And it does it well… provided you can aim better lmao

[weary fox]

I didn't know 16m vs 25m was big oh wait it is, it's a shotgun.

[vital fractal]

You can’t one tap 25m unless it’s a headshot

[weary fox]

I'm giving you the added bonus of OHK on arms, you're still not satisfied

Dude you don't aim at the enemy's cock when you shoot them

Insane right?

[vital fractal]

Now that’s where it’s a straight upgrade because not even buck can do that as you just brought up

[vital fractal]

Ah yes people consciencely choose to miss when shooting my bad

I’ll stop doing that

[weary fox]

Ok then just straight up reduce the range on slugs then

There everyone's happy

[vital fractal]

Oh so now they are a straight downgrade to buckshot

[weary fox]

Make slugs a 1-2 meter difference from buckshot

[vital fractal]

Like they currently are?

[weary fox]

How? Buckshot has RNG, all you need to do is with slugs

[weary fox]

Damn I forgot 25 - 16 = 1 or 2

Mb g

I need to check my math

[vital fractal]

Bro you’re comparing headshot with body shot, and I can’t do that with you my guy

Guess sparks is best shotgun since it can ohk at up to 347m