feedback-discussion

[native lodge]

this is massive cope

anything with decent pen already gives you options

add throwables ontop of that and free recon on spawns all around the map

[flat sandal]

throwables, maybe you are just way better then me but unless one is a streamer doing this as a job they often fail to kill anything. they also go both ways. It's not that the cqc player doesn't have tools^^

[native lodge]

failing to kill something with throwables is user error and they don't need to kill they force movement as well

[flat sandal]

well they don't flush anyone out

so they move, not such a big deal

[native lodge]

the trouble I am having is any of the issue brought up have been related to user error

[flat sandal]

there is always the next corner

okay so on the one hand ppl argue that they should be strong at close quarters and on the other that they are not actually strong 😄

[humble quest]

If a shotgunner has taken out a dynamite to throw at you that's like, the best signal you can get to go shoot them

[native lodge]

they are strong in the role, they are not the meta for reason though

[flat sandal]

are they or are they not? if they are easy to deal with using tools then they are not and I don't understand why they are being used so much

[native lodge]

they aren't bad

never said they were bad

[flat sandal]

running into the compount and landing a headshot is hard

cause lighting and all

[native lodge]

they have pros and cons, cons that can be exploited

[flat sandal]

anyway

not really down for another shotgun discussion

becomes toxic too quickly

[native lodge]

failure to exploit these is user error

[flat sandal]

no offence

you wouldnt hear me say that picking a long range fight is user error

[native lodge]

if your build was poorly set up for that I would

[flat sandal]

okay no worries

[native lodge]

there is actually less options for the shotgunner than the long ammo

hence the meta

[flat sandal]

the pounce is incoming, I'm gonna bounce^^

[fluid osprey]

The main issue thats always here that seemingly is easily ignored be shotgun haters is that you also state in the same discussion that you hate camping or stalemates.
My dears, shotguns feature that playstyle, they do not cause it
i can stay inside the same corner with a fanning revolver or any melee weapon just as well as with any shotgun

[native lodge]

people disagreeing with you isn't pouncing

[flat sandal]

I really only argue that the kill engaging gunfights^^

[native lodge]

like I said I can't make it fun for you

[flat sandal]

no pouncing is the amount that show up

[native lodge]

but I can argue balance and they are balanced

fun is subjective, pros and cons are measurable

[flat sandal]

you dont know the data to claim that, also difficult to say in any case

[native lodge]

except I do know the stats and abilities of shotguns

and I know the stats and ability of other weapons and can compare them

[flat sandal]

okay so you know that nothing else kills on a body shot. how would you factor that into your consideration?

[native lodge]

I find it funny, I DON"T main shotguns, I use rifles 90% shotguns are fine

[flat sandal]

also everything else has hip fire spread

[native lodge]

body shots in short range inferiors at all except those ranges

[flat sandal]

well you are talking about them, what does it matter that you dont use them?

[native lodge]

so if I have the advantage at all other ranges my goal is to stat at those ranges

which is actually easier than trying to get into range

[flat sandal]

stalemate

as if I never tried waiting outside

[native lodge]

breaking the stalemate is not as hard as you making it sound

there is tools for that and if you can't use them thats not the games fault

[flat sandal]

what I will say is, that the milage probably varies if you dont play random teams like I do

what's your kda?

[native lodge]

well rando teams are always going to have a coordination issue unless they add voice chat

[native lodge]

irrelevant

[flat sandal]

it is relevant

[native lodge]

its not

[flat sandal]

is too

[native lodge]

abusable ego stat, that I could change by simply getting a new account and nullfitying first few hundred hours with the game

[flat sandal]

well you are not and neither am I

we have a similar playstyle

[native lodge]

its not relevant and you are trying to distract that you have no point

[flat sandal]

if you know how to deal with them your kda is probably better then mine

sigh

okay then

[humble quest]

It's still not relevant. Do you ask every dev who does game balance for their kda to see if they're qualified

[flat sandal]

not the point mate

[native lodge]

oh man the first fps I ever play when I got this PC was this game, guess I'm shit now

[humble quest]

Funny number does not make opinions on it more or less valid

[flat sandal]

I just wonder if he has a point by saying there are so good ways to deal with the things that I struggle with

the kda with a similar playstyle could be an indicator

[native lodge]

distracting

you are trying to shift the topic away from the points to stats

[flat sandal]

welol I'm not

I dont have a reason to

[native lodge]

its plain as day

[flat sandal]

I#m interested in the truth of things

[native lodge]

yes when you aren't engaging th points

[flat sandal]

what points?

[native lodge]

you distract

that you have tools to deal with these things

[flat sandal]

that is what I was trying to get at

if you dont want to say it's fine

[native lodge]

imo the thing you should really want is addressing the communication issues with randos

[flat sandal]

wasnt trying to shame you lol

[native lodge]

thats probablt the real issue here

[flat sandal]

could be

also goes both ways though

[humble quest]

Communication, play styles not meshing, generally yes your random experiences are going to be more difficult.

But it's not relevant to a discussion of balance of a gun type

[flat sandal]

it is if my experience is biased. there is no way to wait it out as someone always pushes in random teams

[native lodge]

it probably makes shotguns harder to deal with though which I could see, though I maintain thats not an issue with shotguns themselves

[humble quest]

Sounds like an issue with adapting to the way the games played around you

[flat sandal]

well anyway, would love to try not having shotguns one shot body shot. I think it would overall be a better experience.

[humble quest]

If you fail to learn from experiences and find a new way to deal with what's difficult, the issue isn't the hard thing

[flat sandal]

yes yes, sounds like a lot of things

[native lodge]

team voice chat I would be infavor of, coordinating throwing explosives and dumping fmj rounds into a wall these would go a long way

thats how my team deals with shotguns

[flat sandal]

that's the problem with a poor medium like this. It sounds like what the reader wants if they are not careful 😄

[humble quest]

Better random voice is coming soon tm

[jagged wagon]

@finite yarrow personally, I want solo revive gone. I play solo a lot, I accept that it’s an additional challenge, I know I am going up against teams. Solo revive does more harm to the games balance than good. People abuse it to tank mmr and get into unfair matches. It slows down the pace of the game as you sit and wait for the solo to burn out while the other bounty leaves. Now you want to slow down the pace even more? The game was made for team play, if you want to play solo you can, but you should not expect special treatment for deciding not to run with a partner or two.

[rotund obsidian]

#game-ideas message i want dead people to be dead. if i kill someone and recognize they can get up, i should be able to stop it from happening reasonably. solo necro should not be a get out of jail free card, it should be a trick up your sleeve after confusing or deceiving your enemy into not thinking you're a solo. invincibility is a joke. i'd like to see less frequent burning in general but also i want to be able to put a solo down if i truly believe he is a solo (or catch him selfrezzing) and am willing to spend two minutes burning him.

[trail carbon]

@finite yarrow Personally, (as an avid solo player myself) I'm tired of the waiting game already. It drags the game down and makes playing the game more of a chore. I play hunt to fight people and kill monsters. I didn't sign up for cadaver babysitting.

[left horizon]

The game is almost unbearable at this point. total product owner failure. There is NO reason to play the objective any longer with the solo play. I think I won't really go after a boss ever again. there are bush wooky solos EVERYWHERE>

[trail oasis]

Ofc. With solo self res and solo bonuses playing solo mostly mean winning with no effort rn. Playing with mates is a hard handicap

Solo self res is literally the reason i stoped playing the game

[ashen onyx]

Im conviced anyone who complains about solo necro has never actually played it. Go play it and tell me again its op.
I play 99% solo and in the past month i got value maybe 5 times. Usually when i go down the enemy stands over me knive charged and waits untill i burn out, no chance for me to get up.
I think a better alternative would be to give solos death cheat and remove necro entirely since its quite strong for teams as well.
Also if its realy such an issue for you simply buy traps

[trail oasis]

I play solo also 99% of the time and i abuse the fuck out of serpent and solo necro. Have over 50 maxed char and 200k hunt dollars. I am pretty well positioned to know how broken solo.self res is. If you are im a shit situation spot a river and suicide on the water where its barely impossible to find you and gg cant be burned or traped. All the solo vs solo that ended up being a hide un house and res forever thats so lame. I love the game way more when it used to be hard to play and keep a valuable loadout

[ashen onyx]

what a bottom tier take lmao.
compounds tend to not have rivers flowing through them (view exceptions) and you have to go to a compound to get the bounty. besides you can still get burned in water with liquid fire bombs witch are not rare and you can still be trapped in water.
And the enemy not finding you in grass migth be a thing in 1 star lobbys but pretty much everyone knows exactly where they killed you and will find you no problem.
And solo vs solo fight are over with the first death. One goes down the other runs over and traps/ burns = GG

[rotund obsidian]

I don't think it's OP at all. In its current state, I honestly don't have much of an issue with it. Any of my problems with solo necro honestly are worse with team necro. However, I think the strength of necromancer should be biggest when people are unaware of it. I think the idea of extending the burn time is stupid and invulnerability on selfrez is an obviously ridiculous suggestion. If a team takes the time or brings the equipment to counter it, recognizes someone as a solo and uses said equipment on them, then i don't think the solo should realistically have any chance of standing up.

I'm not calling for a nerf i just dont think it should be buffed to make it more annoying for everyone or to ridiculously favor the solo with something like invuln lmao. Also, I'd like a flare nerf cause ppl just be burning everyone which kinda defeats the point of actually recognizing solos tbh

[signal mural]

What do you mean?! No one brings a liquid firebomb, c. bomb, flares/fuzes, and poison/barb traps to deal with you and potentially one other solo necromancer?! Those bayou -chads obviously have skill issues.

[flat sandal]

I agree with that. I don't play solo much and part of the reason is that it feels cheesy. Often ppl try to argue that their playstyle is actually not op, so I raise my glass to you 😄 From the times I played solo I'm pretty sure that the chances of getting out alive is simply much higher then in teams due to solo necro. Yes, often your body will be watched but plenty of times it won't which is why that is. That plus the clear MMR advantage. I mean, what are we even arguing about here?^^

[ashen onyx]

PSA: how to counter solo necro

for anyone who thinks its op 😉

[flat sandal]

About the whole burning debate. I think the gameplay around it is actually sort of fine but one could have a look at it. I think a downside is that the tool loadout is for more people pretty much locked in. Melee, Medkit, Cholk, and something to burn. Of course there are ways to change it up but that's probably the baseline now. There could be a lot of fun tools but they won't be used much. In whatever way, I would have a look at that. For example, if you would see that 90% of the time the bodies are burned quickly you might as well just let them bleed out as a default and free up a space. Not saying that is a good idea, just a direction to think in^^

[flat sandal]

you can't just ignore all other scenarios. The question is not if it's op but what effects it has and if those are good or not.

[ashen onyx]

That is THE scenario, if you kill someone run over there burn and wait 60 sec. Its a rare day when i snipe someone and cant run over fast enough or when they happen to die in water and i didnt bring traps

[flat sandal]

in that scenario it still can happen that he kill you. Its rare but the rareness is made up for by how outrageous it is 😄

are you playing solo at all?

[ashen onyx]

if he gets up and kills you in that scenario thats on you, you fucked up

[flat sandal]

okay well, what do you have to do to prevent that? Stand there like an idiot for a minute

don't understand why ppl think that is preferable to anything else

[ashen onyx]

bring traps, play dragons breath, bring hell fire, burn and wait, find lantern so many options to counter necro

[flat sandal]

sure but it narrows down what you can bring and do for gameplay that is weird

it's all a trade off but ppl make it out to be without alternative

and without downsides

[ashen onyx]

you doint just find a lantern, or fire grunt, or get fire bomb from tool box, or find a bear trap etc. literally 0 downsides

[flat sandal]

in other words too many ppl argueing for it have their opinion and don't even listen to anything else

probably the worng place to make that point

the internet that is^^

[flat sandal]

do I even have to say it

0 downsides? really?

[ashen onyx]

to many people cried when quick swaping got nerfed, or loong ammo got nerfed, or dolch got buffed. in the end it was al good for the game. most people have no clue about gamedesign

[flat sandal]

is that way ppl tend to bring something to burn now? becasue there are 0 downsides?

[ashen onyx]

yes say it i dont see any downsides

[flat sandal]

okay so what if that guy on your picture in THE suituation didn't burn yet and you go to find something?

would that change THE situation at all?

hence ppl bring something to burn now

[ashen onyx]

no beacuse i knew there was a lantern in the barn to the left that i saw before and it takes necro 10sec. before the res (if i remember correctly) easily enough time to get it.
i just happen to bring alert tripmines every match for the memes.

there was also bear traps in the barn to the rigth past the gate and another lantern behind the dog cenel in the compound that i could have grabbed fast enough

if you have some awareness its no problem to find something

if people chose to spend a loadout slot on a fire bomb to be set for the fiew cases where there is nothing to burn then thats their decision

[flat sandal]

okay cool, you got me. 100% correct. silly me, literelly all these solo ppl even getting necros are absolut idiots. it doesn't help one bit

like ever

sry about that

just a bit tired of the way ppl argue^^

no offence

[ashen onyx]

did you just have an aneurysm?

[flat sandal]

yes

[rotund obsidian]

conc bombs are pretty good, solos usually just leave as soon as they hear it even if you dont burn and walk away, in my experience

[ashen onyx]

if you cant handle loosing an argument maybe just stay quiet @flat sandal

[rotund obsidian]

obvs not foolproof but its a crazy good counter

[flat sandal]

it is. have to bring one, still have one and use one though

[flat sandal]

I probably shouldn't do this. So you feel like you won an argument that is about opinions on features? You created a strawman you literally burn by focusing on your one situation and won't even acknowledge the fact that there are other situations. If you think this is about winning for me or should be about winning for you, then you are really seriously mistaken and set yourself up for a bad day. Just chill bro, take it easy and have a chat with ppl about a game.

[tawny meadow]

I think this argument can move on, thanks.

[flat sandal]

to sum it up, my problem with solo necro is the cheesy gameplay and the messing up of MMR. that's it

[flat sandal]

what do you mean?

[tawny meadow]

Move to another topic if one of the part involved can't chill about it.

[flat sandal]

that's 90% of the conversations here^^

[ashen onyx]

here comes the "b.bb...bbbut muh strawman" the signature cry of someone who has no counterarguments left but instead of accepting that they where wrong they continue to throw out bullshit.
Yes there can be situations where the enemy happenes to die in water and where you happen to not bring and traps and where you happen to not find anything and where you happen to to not bring a liquid fire bomb and where the enemy just so happenes to get up in the rigth moment where you happen to drop your phone and where you happen to not have your hand on the keyboard and where you happen to butterfinger and he kills you. yes that one in a million situation migth occure but that doesnt mean that necro is op. If you base your entire argument on a once in a million chain of events you are just wrong, its not an opinion its fact. This isnt about winning this is about bottom tier takes that are the reason crytech doesn't care about the comunity anymore, and honnestly i cant blame them.
"Just chill bro, take it easy and have a chat with ppl about a game" says the guy who had an aneurysm over some internet discussion.
Pls. my guy go outside

to sum it up necro isn't a problem, its barely usefull at all, there is 100 ways to counter it, the end.

[flat sandal]

pls don't be angry with me

[ashen onyx]

im not XD what makes you think that

[flat sandal]

what you said doesn't make much sense though

[ashen onyx]

pls refere #feedback-discussion message

[flat sandal]

lol, cause you are being mean. I#m trying to help you^^

[ashen onyx]

im not mean im telling you the truth, anyway ill leave you to it

[flat sandal]

there is a definition for things like a strawman and if you tell me I think it's op and go from there. that is it

so if ppl keep telling you that you are doing that. perhaps listen

[ashen onyx]

b.bbb....bbbbut muh strawman XD. m8 just accept that your argument was dumb, accept that you got told, leave it be, no argument you string together wil make you look any better

anyway il leave it there cya

[wind stream]

You were asked once to drop it, this is the last warning. If you cant have a civilized discussion you can take it elsewhere.

[flat sandal]

1.1 No Insults, discrimination (xenophobia, sexism, transphobia, homophobia etc.), personal attacks, harassment, hate speech, griefing, trolling, baiting, antagonizing, slander, spreading misinformation, or using terms denoting medical conditions in a derogatory manner.

[signal mural]

@raven cobalt Your suggestion about Poacher and Vigilant isn't bad but you didn't follow the guidelines so no one can vote on it.

[humble quest]

@winter tusk I disagree that shared weapon exp has been a bad thing. They drastically reduced the amount of exp needed per weapon unlock, especially compact, and removed many of the higher unlock challenges from rotation, fmj/high velo usually being much later unlocks than poison and incin.

Unless those new players are being brought around by high MMR players and get to make zero impact on rounds, they're almost certainly unlocking weapons and ammo at a better pace than previous.

[signal mural]

@boreal obsidian Is there no information about accounts being carried over from the console generations that are being phazed out? Or is it restricted to PSN or Xbox account?

[spiral dust]

#feedback message @hot vigil sorry for tagging, but I feel your pain.
I am tired of playing with X weapon, on Y custom ammo and doing Z stuff just because game is forcing me to do that. It is like I am playing not a game itself, but challenges. It is so nice feeling to complete them and doing whatever you want in the game, playing own loadouts, even if they are shitty, but funny 🙂

[flat sandal]

amen

[hot vigil]

No worries :)
Custom/Medium/long challeges is somewhat okay.
And I can also live with custom ammo for the most parts.
But the shotguns (and shotgun specific) ones are killing me.
Biggest issue for me is that after I've done challenges I simply doesn't have any more Hunt in me for the rest of the week.

Also it encourages to do so many bad plays, like shooting dog cages or running out in the open 50m away from everything bc you finally see an immolator.

[spiral dust]

It is really strange thing, maybe it should be more reshuffles or just have possibility for blocking some area of challenges. Idk.

Or maybe thing, that will be never in this game, because it requires resources for more than 1 day of work - a list of challenges (e.g. 50 challenges), where you can pick up a challenge that you want. Something similar to the Questlines looks like a cool solution.

[signal mural]

Or they could just lessen the points and make each star on the Weekly Challenges synominous with Dark Tribute pips... Claim 13 Dark Tribute in one week to get the full payout.

[flat sandal]

I thought I had a kick-ass suggestion at the beginning of the event but ppl didn't like it somehow. regarding challenges that is

[hot vigil]

Yeah?

[flat sandal]

yeah

it was amazing

[rotund obsidian]

@stoic garnet #game-ideas message fuck it just make necro a burn trait in general

[stoic garnet]

Also fair.

[winter tusk]

I can only speak from my experience but most of my friend group plays Hunt. A lot of the group sits in the 4-5 star range and a handful of us prestige. Because of this I have almost exclusively seen the exact scenario of new players playing with high mmr players. Additionally, if you, like me, are a player that both prestiges and is usually the lowest mmr in any given group I play with the weapon xp sharing has had a significant impact. I would actually like to see xp per damage rather than per kill as a solution to this.

[humble quest]

Outside of being new, I match most of the criteria and still just have had a different experience. I prestige immediately at 100, I'm absolutely the worst of my play groups and am largely active radar rather than killer.

Anyway, as long as the system exists I can recommend things to help. Berzerker is an amazing tool for leveling weapons. Either taking a melee weapon or finding a world weapon with zerker makes Meatheads very easy and silently farmable for exp. 2 heavy and a light hit will prep them for one hit with any other weapon you want to get exp with. Last hitting bosses when killing since they'll know your location immediately after as well.

Meatheads are 300 exp per, I don't recall what a boss is. But 300 is more than half a compact gun level, 1/2 a medium or 1/3 a long. During a single map you can easily go up multiple levels on a given gun.

[queen jungle]

@tropic wing The devs have always stated to not want a mechanic simply forcing somebody to make a move. Any team outside a compound waiting for somebody to come out is just as required to make a move as any team inside.
And the match has 45 minutes because things may go slowly and take time and patience is often an important virtue in Hunt.

And there's Dark Sight Boost as well as the audio indicators of the extraction vehicle as a counter-measure against extraction camping.

[winter tusk]

Part of what gets frustrating is that the main person I play with also prestiges so we're both usually needing to level guns, and often needing the same ones. Getting the last shot on the boss is a resource that then has to be debated about who gets it.

Berzerker for meatheads is a good tip.

[humble quest]

Depending on play time, exactly how lined up you are and stuff sometimes it can be annoying yeah. The main person I play with we will hold off on a prestige if weeklies are about to change or something, but it's still a lot smoother for us both than the previous system

I 100% dreaded challenges after a prestige before because some of the needed guns were level 40+ on the bloodline

[stoic garnet]

@indigo ginkgo #game-ideas make that a toggle option.

[humble quest]

Ammos become available so much faster than any of that was

And what's more, now we get to work on guns we want ammo for immediately after prestige instead of only after they unlock.

I dunno. In the end not shared exp isn't perfect, but alongside a lot of other improvements it's been a general upgrade and id prefer it stay

[rotund obsidian]

It's definitely better, but I do sometimes miss the xp share. was nice to get unlocks for stuff you don't really plan on using much, especially to get stuff like fmj

[winter tusk]

I do agree that the other improvements have made the lack of sharing barable. Like I said, my prefered solution is actually to keep the individual xp but make a xp per damage system rather than a per kill system. That way if I do 130 damage to someone and then they run off a ledge I still get xp.

[rotund obsidian]

It would definitely be nice to get some sort of xp reward for assists, yeah.

sometimes i'll tag somebody with a pistol then chuck a dynamite at them and my xp goes out the window

[humble quest]

I want to say damage seems easily abused, but so are deaths if you find willing participants. Ultimately I don't think the progression system is hugely... Compelling anyways.

I like damage a lot more than reverting back to shared

[flat sandal]

@indigo ginkgo I think it's a good point. Should actually be possible to just have it invisible around the crosshair. It doesn't have to disappear completely then.

[paper ridge]

Loading screens are slow AF, this game is waiting extremely

[oblique otter]

Blatant fucking cheaters on EU servers from china, thank you crytek for a very good competetive game

[abstract burrow]

Any devs want to answer my question, why is the system.cfg file still a thing that is getting abused by the average chinese player on EU

[glad cliff]

how can it be such a big issue, when he can see trhough walls and has no shadows, he still as to aim at you. Just dont camp in dark areas. 5Head.

[oblique otter]

brother, it doesnt matter, if you want the game to be "sound depended" you need to hear for sounds, you need to stop sometimes, i guess you are a 3 star you dont have these issues

[glad cliff]

https://tenor.com/view/joke-stickfigure-not-affected-gif-14391548

[oblique otter]

stay off feedback with your silly 12 year old sarcasm, how are you helping out again?

[glad cliff]

why are you so mad, who hurt you

[crystal plume]

Alright time for everyone to move on

[oblique otter]

@crystal plume Btw, how does the report system work? I have heard that its only video evidence that puts the cheaters away.ö

[crystal plume]

Both work, proof is always obviously more helpful and effective

[abstract burrow]

pls get the message to the devs that the system.cfg file needs to be removed cuz its been way to long and nobody is talking about it

[oblique otter]

could you explain how it works? Do you do manual reviews of gameplay recorded ingame from cheaters POV if enough reports go in?

[crystal plume]

I wouldn't know, I'm just a volunteer moderator

And I'm sure they wouldn't want to share their process either way as any info regarding that kind of stuff will be used by cheaters

[abstract burrow]

get it to the devs pls

[crystal plume]

It's known

[abstract burrow]

then why is it not removed man

[crystal plume]

Because not everything is as easy as some may think

[abstract burrow]

its not that difficult to remove one file that has no use in the game anyways

i mean yeah when the game got coded that bad removing a exploit took them like 6 months

its honestly a joke

Are they fully recoding the game from scratch with engine upgrade or no cuz if not why is it taking so long aswell

[crystal plume]

[paper ridge]

We need longer loadings

[cobalt python]

@smoky needle do u just hate feun

[smoky needle]

u might wanna @ hcell too

[cobalt python]

Nah just u

u started it

now u explain it for them

[smoky needle]

because i think that idea is stinky so i downvoted it

[cobalt python]

explain

[livid moat]

I think it's stinky too

[smoky needle]

facts

[cobalt python]

but why

like thats legit a cool idea

how is that bad

how about u give me a cool idea

[smoky needle]

no its not a cool idea , this is a cool idea not doing that

this game is dead and the devs have fucked it over by just shilling dlcs

[cobalt python]

OH

YOU ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[cobalt python]

You still one of the people who say the game is dead right

but than u just complain about it

and for some reason react to the suggestions ideas thing in the discord

even tho u think the game is dead

can you give me some logic behind that or

[livid moat]

<@&357256267087085568> erm, this is getting out of hand

[smoky needle]

yeah bc i can still give my opinion even if it think the game is shit

[cobalt python]

no no no

game is not shit

its dead

why waste your time

on a dead game?

[smoky needle]

its dead and shit

[cobalt python]

like I said u one of those people

congrats

[humble quest]

In the future messaging @muted zealot in dm's works better. Pinging all the mods at once isn't needed

[smoky needle]

ur not a mod

[humble quest]

True, but I promise they'll say it too

[smoky needle]

ok not lily

[livid moat]

I just wanted them to see the critique of their game (:

[cobalt python]

and you're not a person who spent tons of hours on hunt wasted than decided one game the game was dead/shit and now spends there time reminising and complaining that the game is dead

[smoky needle]

iv got 2.5k hours and still play because when i started in the beta it was fun now its just dead avg 20k or less players on the weekends

preciate it pall

[cobalt python]

20k 💀

like I said u fall into a category

u need to break away from it and change your mind set

if the gameplay is fine than dont complain about the player count cause like

bro 20k is fine

[smoky needle]

20k is dead

[cobalt python]

FOR WHAT GAME LMAO

[smoky needle]

smite got more players

[cobalt python]

u know the game marauders

[smoky needle]

noi

[cobalt python]

jesus

well its was a cool at extraction game

when released

had 20k

now it has 300

[smoky needle]

idc

[cobalt python]

be grateful boy

[smoky needle]

really

[cobalt python]

u do care

or u wouldnt be talking to me

or complaining

[smoky needle]

not really

[cobalt python]

about how dead the game is

[smoky needle]

nah its just funny

[cobalt python]

weird sense of humor

we both know u aint laughing tho

u can lie to me idk

[smoky needle]

i am

[cobalt python]

but dont lie to yourself man

thats fucked up

show yourself some self respect

u deserve it ❤️

[smoky needle]

but im not gonna convince a stranger who already has his mind made up

so idrc

[livid moat]

@cobalt python Honestly dude, the idea just kinda blew.

[smoky needle]

facts

it was just a bad idea

[livid moat]

I mean a hunter with BOTH eyes dangling?

How can he use Iron Eye if he doesn't have eyes

[cobalt python]

aint there legit a person with a blind fold on?

[smoky needle]

idk u tell me

[cobalt python]

just cause u lost u dont gotta bring up eye shit

idk man

u have 2.5k hours in this game so how

u tell me

[smoky needle]

you are a hunt throater

[cobalt python]

also 20k dead

[smoky needle]

i dont buy hunters

[cobalt python]

u fucking understand

rn

its at the peak

of its player count

[smoky needle]

bruh

[cobalt python]

sine beta right?

[smoky needle]

20k peak

lmfao

[cobalt python]

yeah

its average players...

like around 2023 and 2024

its legit growing

from beta

so idk how in the world u got dead from

but its legit increasing...

[smoky needle]

its been going down

[cobalt python]

do your research

no bro LMAO

u just making yourself look dumb

its legit been increasing

it aint been 100k

and now its 20k

for example

nah

[tawny meadow]

Ok party people

Time to chill

[smoky needle]

what up

mr mod

[cobalt python]

legit rn its at its peak from october 2023

amon tell this man

the man who spent 2.5h of his life on this game

that he thinks the game is dead

[smoky needle]

i really dont think this is a heated convo

[cobalt python]

when it never decreased in players?

no

u must understand

I wont let you be one of those og players

who think this

im saving u young blood

[tawny meadow]

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but still, keep chat respectful and chill

[smoky needle]

well you gotta lot of convincing to do

[cobalt python]

rice what year was hunt at its peak

tell me please

love and respect

no fighting

just conversating

[smoky needle]

it think it is pretty chill and we are being respectful , but if you disagree please explain

[cobalt python]

❤️

^

I aint called this man any slurs

but i want a year rice

u been here since beta so you say

so give me a time period

[smoky needle]

hunt at its peak was first to second event and then they beat the horse dry

and its gone down from there

[cobalt python]

a year please

Ive been around only so long

not as educated can only go by years

[tawny meadow]

https://steamcharts.com/app/594650#1y

Playerbase is doing ok

[smoky needle]

eh

[cobalt python]

^ thank u

[smoky needle]

disagree

[cobalt python]

legit peaked in 2023...

[smoky needle]

but to each there own

[tawny meadow]

Hunt is still niche, but for a niche game is doing good

[cobalt python]

the numbers dont lie

like lets say you say the game is dead

for its entire life span

than I could understand if u think 20k players is down

but if u think it got dead

than you wrong

[smoky needle]

2021 was the first hunt event and it was a halloween event

shit was fun

[cobalt python]

ok see I can agree on you with that

the events have been getting shit

[smoky needle]

now they just do the same shit over and over again while shitting out dlc after dlc

[cobalt python]

the fun of the game def has gone down

and yeah the dlc shit is stupid but like

Im a simple man and just want one just one dangling eye

or trains

they add trains ill be happy

[smoky needle]

yeha and i still think its a bad idea

[cobalt python]

it legit fits the theme

[smoky needle]

[cobalt python]

and it will move with the player man

like

dangling eye

[smoky needle]

you can think that

[cobalt python]

u want a picture?

[smoky needle]

no

[cobalt python]

u made me spill my cho mein

fuck

ok I go now bye

[smoky needle]

[trail carbon]

This is exactly the problem I have with solo necro though. It isn't "op" or anything, it's just annoying as hell. Especially as a solo myself, I'm so tired of playing the waiting game. Just because it isn't super busted, that doesn't mean it's automatically healthy for the game. I shouldn't have to babysit a corpse for several minutes just to ensure it can't get back up again. I think necromancer as a whole should just go away, but especially solo necro.

[cobalt python]

fire+traps= dead

I just fixed all your problems and would like a freshly baked cookie c:

[fluid locust]

what if they die in water?

[fluid locust]

hunt is already the waiting game lol. the fact they had to decrease timer from 60 minutes to 45 just to get people to somewhat move more just shows you that. not to mention the reason quickplay exists is because they couldn't get a solo only mode to work because all anyone did was camp

[trail carbon]

You still have to sit there and wait for them to burn out, and many times they have salveskin.

[cobalt python]

(the traps)

its a combo

[trail carbon]

1. I don't really want to have to bring traps every damn game
2. It doesn't fix the waiting game problem

[cobalt python]

what do you want instead of traps young man

shit bring a concentina bomb if u want

if u dont like traps

[trail carbon]

I want the old solo gameplay back

[cobalt python]

so u are saying u dont have a problem with solo necro

but u just miss how it use to be

understandable

how was it back then educate me

[trail carbon]

I think solo necro, while not being op or anything, give a massive crutch to solo players (including myself) it doesn't really feel like playing solo is much of a challenge anymore. And it makes me feel silly when I don't run solo necro out of principle because why would I run it?

Solo play used to be a massive challenge

There was no mmr reduction, and not benefits to being a solo

You got queued into people of your skill level, and you had to be very careful because if you died, that was it, no second chances

You jad to play very methodically and make every decision carefully

[cobalt python]

was it just a solo que or were there other players?

like other team I mean

[trail carbon]

No, you played eith duos and trios

[cobalt python]

but doesnt solo necro give u a bit of out play potential

if the time comes

like lets say you are in a massive team fight and u just a solo

u get shot from who knows where

u dont want a chance to get back up and continue fighting in the coaus?

u just wanna go back to the menu and start over?

[trail carbon]

I'm torn about that part of it

[cobalt python]

sure if you run into just a 3 man and they kill you

u probs aint getting up

[trail carbon]

Because its fun for the solo, sure, but it doesn't feel great for the team that killed you

[cobalt python]

they gonna burn u and trap tf out of you and u can go bye bye

idk I never had a problem

Ive out played tons of people with it

[trail carbon]

I think I wouldn't have a problem with solo necro if it was 1 revive or something

[cobalt python]

like for example I shot another solo at the start of the match

flared gun his ass

put down 2 traps on his body

he stood up killed him

than I walked away

and never saw him again

see

that 1 revive thing

u might have something there

ngl

[trail carbon]

Well yeah, he probably extracted

[cobalt python]

no like

I killed him

he never got back up

well he did but he died

to the traps

[trail carbon]

Did you wait for him to burn out?

[cobalt python]

Nah

no need 2

he was dead to rights

[trail carbon]

Then how do you know he didn't extract after he heard you walk away

[cobalt python]

cause my traps killed him

plus the fire

[trail carbon]

That's another thing, I don't think you should be able to hear stuff when you're downed

[cobalt python]

I agree on that

[trail carbon]

I don't ever leave before a solo is burned out

[cobalt python]

well yeah cause u dont bring traps

I wouldnt either

[trail carbon]

Because about 5 times they've come back to kill me

I usually put a bear trap at their feet

[cobalt python]

nah that aint gonna do it

[trail carbon]

And burn them

[cobalt python]

bring yourself some concentina traps or concentina bombs

throw a lamp on them

wait for them to get up like once

have a flare gun on standbye

and u chillin

they probs wont fix it sadly

so we just gonna have to do it this way

[trail carbon]

I don't think I should have to build my loadout around getting rid of one specific kind of player

[cobalt python]

muiltiple*

if there are multiple solos

[trail carbon]

But, as a solo, I'm basically forced to bring concertina, or babysit solo corpses

[cobalt python]

and they damn right are

or another trap if u want

or like there are posion arrow things for cross bows

and concentina bolts

and stuff

I mean what else u taking

[trail carbon]

Yeah, theres always like 4ish solos in every match because its no longer a big challenge

[cobalt python]

instead of that

yeah it aint really a challenge I feel like I have the advantage playing solo most the time lmao

[trail carbon]

I don't rely on poison clouds because of antidotes

[cobalt python]

well why would they bring antidotes just because of one status effect?

[trail carbon]

I usually bring my guns of course, a tool melee (varies), medkit, throwing axes/knives/flare gun, and chokes

[cobalt python]

it all comes down to play style

u dont need to trap the body

just flare it and continue the fight

and just be alert

but if u dont wanna have that added pressure

u bring traps

its a choice

[trail carbon]

Then my consumables vary, but I usually bring two weak vitality shots and two bombs

[cobalt python]

why two weak

[hot vigil]

its a choice I guess :v

[trail carbon]

I like big/small/small/big

[cobalt python]

wtf

[trail carbon]

And I'm cheap

[cobalt python]

how much dollars u got

[trail carbon]

Like 40k

[cobalt python]

u prestige?

[trail carbon]

Used to

But I kinda stopped caring

[cobalt python]

prestiging is stupid in this game

until they add a cool legendary hunter skin or make it so I can actually get an advantage by prestiging

I aint doing it

[hot vigil]

Well, there are cool legendary skins for prestige :)

[cobalt python]

the skins are bad

[trail carbon]

I can definitely afford whatever I want, but I've always brought weak vitals

[cobalt python]

I need a hunter skin

weird

suggestons bring strong vital and regen shot

and call it a day

@hot vigil ok u tell me your opinion be truthful

a legendary hunter with like one dangling eye

yes or no

[trail carbon]

I don't need strong vital though, because i run big small small big

[cobalt python]

what if u in a fight

and they shoot u

and u need to get full hp

quick

[trail carbon]

Well, I only really heal behind cover anyways

[hot vigil]

No real strong opinion about taht

[cobalt python]

bro why

is it not cool enough?

I dont understand how people wopnt like that idea

its legit sick af

[hot vigil]

Just not something I care for, but not dislike

[cobalt python]

what do you care about

in a hunter

tell me that

let me get a grasp on things

u like hats or?

[trail carbon]

In a hunter, I like traditional cowboy times look

[hot vigil]

It is a "I know it when I see it" thing.

[trail carbon]

And big hat

[cobalt python]

im thinking of getting that sheriff dude

he looks sick

[trail carbon]

I like Sofia and Llorona

[cobalt python]

name on hunter that gave u that feel

one*

[hot vigil]

I can name you all the Hunters I like and own?

[cobalt python]

if u want

[trail carbon]

I'd be fine with it if it was themed like revenant

I wouldn't personally use it though

[cobalt python]

but get this

the eye dangling will move

with your movement

and it would just swing

[trail carbon]

Yeah, that's cool and all

But it isnt a big hat

[cobalt python]

ok but what if listen here

we put a big hat on him

😮

[trail carbon]

I dunno, the guesome feel doesn't really work for me

I want my guy to be uh, alive I guess

[cobalt python]

he is alive

his eye just fell out of his socket

u hating on partially blind people now?

(only one eye btw)

u want a picture?

so u can see what I mean?

[trail carbon]

No, I get what you mean

I can totally see the appeal

But it just isn't a hunter I'd use

Like felis and witch docter, I can see the appeal, but I wouldn't use them myself

[hot vigil]

• Lulu
• Reptile
• Hayali
• The Gunslinger
• Spirited
• Gar
• Billy Story
• Hornback
• Steel Eyed
• Statesman

[cobalt python]

gotchu

[trail carbon]

Is Hayali the funny moon mask guy?

[hot vigil]

Well, the Turkish guy yes

[trail carbon]

But anyways, going back to this, after like 1400 hours of usually using the weak vitality shot, I guess I've just gotten used to it. Also, if someone shoots me and doesn't kill me, I just shoot them back.

[trail carbon]

He's turkish? I've only ever looked at him like once or twice

[hot vigil]

Well Ottoman Turkish

[trail carbon]

I don't remember what he looks like besides the mask to be fair

[hot vigil]

But yeah, his drip and naming is all from that :)

[trail carbon]

Nice

[trail carbon]

Maaaan, he has a turban and everything.

Didn't even realize

[hot vigil]

You can see his mask(s) are inspired by Ottoman Turkish culture

[trail carbon]

Yeah, I can definitely see it

[hot vigil]

That is what I love about Hunt, it have the perfect setting for some cool representation.

Without risking racist stereo-typing.

[glass shuttle]

is something being done about the boxchongs ruining every oce game by farming kills in a corner?

[tiny pivot]

extremely unbelievably funny how the conversation ends at "without risking racist stereotyping" and immediately this guy drops some unknown random word to refer to people he doesnt like XD

[hot vigil]

yikes

yeah

[vital fractal]

I mean, man’s not using the right words but

He has a point

The killing in a corner seems like a big issue on pc

[tiny pivot]

I think it's not and that people are just magnified by having likely just lost to someone coincidentally in a corner that they don't like

Without realizing that Hunt is innately a slow game and people sitting in corners or watcihng peep hole angles is like 95% of the game and it's more rare to run into direct open air fights (let alone ones that don't involve snipers or other scopes)

[glass shuttle]

i had 4 games in a row that had them
games quiet we fight one team die and spectate and see them in the corner

1 game was completely quiet we found boss killed banished still nothing desided to kill ourselves and see and ofc 2 teams in a corner farming kills

the boxchongs are out of control

[radiant river]

wdym farming kills

[glass shuttle]

they keep killing each other and looting

so they farming money and xp

and they get their bars back coz of the new pact

and its always boxoids doing it

[cosmic kettle]

Who the fuck @ my friend!?

[cosmic kettle]

Alright, keep your secrets

[radiant river]

My bad

[blissful jackal]

sorry dude

[trail oasis]

What is the thing u guys talking about where peoples farm kills on corners?

[ocean holly]

cries in redneck 😄

[hot vigil]

Peacekeeper trait let yo regain one bar when you look a dead hunter.
So as long you take turn killing each other you can do it forever.
So people gets insane amount of exp and money.

[trail oasis]

wow...what the point to even play the game if its to abuse it like that? not like it was hard to gain xp and money in the first place lol...

[spiral dust]

omfg, some players cant just play normal 😐

[willow hedge]

Big number go brrrrr. Seriously, what the heck

[trail oasis]

respect XD

some peoples who tried to artificially boost their stats will have just completly throw their account stats to the garbage literally

[humble quartz]

Nha thats just a strategy to intimidate people. How do you think should they filter all the people that did that if no one reported 😅

[rotund obsidian]

I think it's probably feasible to check for matches where people went and got like fifty kills lmao

[trail oasis]

they are not amateur they have statisctics of everything. this kind of abuse is the most obvious thing to notice. who get 100kill in a game outside of abusing this...

[willow hedge]

Meta data is a hell of a weapon

[hot vigil]

Yeah, if they can track down how much a weapon is used in a specific MMR bracket, they for sure can also do a search of "matches with players having 20+ kills".

[trail oasis]

theres no way peoples who abused it severely not getting caugh

[hot vigil]

And ofc there are matches where you can get a high volume of kills, but I assume it is easy to see if you've killed multiple people over the span of 15 min vs the same guy over the span of 5 min

[trail oasis]

they just need to watch the list of game with players with 20+ kill and see if its the same guys that killing over and over again with a obvious kill interval

peoples who abuse of lowering mmr using this method gonna need to be carefull untill the end of event also

i would not want to be the guys on duty of analysing everything rn XD

[hot vigil]

I assume they can do filters tho.

• Kill threshold
• Death threshold matching
• Kill/Death IDs
  And you've already sorted a lot

But ofc don't know if they have set it up like that.

[trail oasis]

idk why peoples cheat in this game. xp and money is meaningless the game imersion and feeling is what make this game great and you not only endup ruining other experience but urself too. such a waste

[hushed belfry]

i immerse myself in money

[hot vigil]

Farming to sell accounts.
Farming to complete BP.
Farming bc games doesn't have any other goals than accrue money or doing the dogshit prestige.

I wouldn't cheat, but I would understand someone saying "Yeah I doing it so I don't have to deal with Battlepass FOMO grind"

[trail oasis]

tbf i didnt thinked about BP i hate the grind so much that i havent purchased the last ones since i know i dont play for quest and i will never finish it anyway so yeah... someone with bad intention would see opportunity

[hot vigil]

Also not having to worry about Hunt Dollars for a while might also be nice for some people.

So yeah, there are plenty of motivation to cheat

[trail oasis]

i guess you right.

[hot vigil]

Reason for cheating can be a very complex issue, but usually all of them starts when frustration and self-justification intersect.

[trail oasis]

well at least for this abuse there no one that rly gonna get hurt. wont change anything if you face a noob with cheap loadout or an expensive one. a succesfull hunter would not need dolllars in the first place and BP its a personal thing.

[signal mural]

@dull prawn Yeah, I can understand your sentiment. But there's a lot of toxic vitriol when you suggest any changes to how Solo Necromancer functions or the gameplay around it. It makes for really boring gameplay in its current design but fans of it get borderline abusive in defending it. Which I think just fuels the hate for it all the more.

"Skill issues" is always a great gaslighting counter-argument... this coming from someone who plays down a bracket, ideally against lesser skilled duos or trios... who then are punished for downing a solo because if they choose to burn and camp the solo's body are then at the "mercy" of solo to not insistently revive -despite being trapped & burned -dying to give their "less skilled" opponents a 4-5 kill MMR boost, meanwhile lowering their own MMR. Ugh... anyway people on this Discord already know my opinion on it.

No point in preaching to the choir, right?

[hot vigil]

Think solo necro have made me realize how much people argue in bad faith in general.

(Agree with you btw)

[signal mural]

Yeah, it genuinely made it to where Hunt turned into 'Highlander' for me... I went in as a non-necro solo and tried explicitly to kill and purge other Solo Hunters from the match. It was kinda fun for awhile but the MMR fluxuation makes it real impractical. That and if you kill a duo and then obviously give no Fs about the bounty and go Hunting seemingly random noises - it makes for suspicious viewing.

[hot vigil]

Self-regulation at its finest

[dull prawn]

I've always defended self-necro's right to exist but I've never been blind to the many issues present with its current design. I suggested an overhaul a while back that essentially turned it into a "one free extra life + free relocate and that you then have to recharge through a banish/player loot" but that never got much traction and had some folks argue that it would make the trait too powerful.

#game-ideas message was my original idea if you're curious, probably not the best solution but better than Crytek's, which has been "let's just make the whole feature completely pointless instead"

[signal mural]

I think I read that but didn't vote and refined the idea in another post myself because I thought the core sentiment was good.

I posted multiple ideas for gameplay refinement around solo necro but none of it did nearly as well as your suggestion. Yours achieved at least more up votes than anything. (I gave it a 👍🏻 now too.)

[dull prawn]

heh, thanks, its pretty old now being posted last december and all, @civic torrent 's idea about it is pretty interesting too although perhaps a bit too complicated to be implemented since it'd require crytek to do a lot of extra work. I really do hope that the devs have at least been working on something to make self-revive viable and not annoying for everybody involved

[hot vigil]

Issue with relocate is that it just makes that Solos never die unless they willingly want to.

[signal mural]

#game-ideas message

Here's my take on your idea I think. It came after last event.

[dull prawn]

you seem very confident in every single solo player's ability to regain their tokens - I will agree that being given the chance to extract with your hunter is pretty powerful, but extracting still removes you as a threat from that game. My idea basically means that if you kill a solo and they revive themselves, you 1) know exactly what happened and can prepare to run into them again and 2) know that chances are good that if you encounter them again they'll be weaker and dead for good.

Again, not a perfect solution, but I'd be very eager to hear any ideas you have that you think would work better

[dull prawn]

I fucking loved shadow leap last event so I'm all for this, seems like I'm in the minority though

[hot vigil]

And that is kinda my point, it makes it a "death cheat with extra steps", it removes any ability for the enemy to do any proactive play against the body of the player they killed and now they can at best hope the person extracts and at worst hope the solo miss their next shot when the gonna ambush them again.

[dull prawn]

I never understood the hate for death cheat - with death cheat if you kill an enemy player they're still fucking dead, they get to keep their hunter but they're no longer a problem for you in that game, so who cares if they re-queue again later? I never understood why that being a solo-only compromise would be a bad thing but then I am admittedly biased.

As for counterplay tactics, that's kind of the whole issue with necro right now - it's very hard to design a counterplay measure against self revive that is fair for both sides. Right now, counterplay measures against self revive basically render it pointless. Unless you're lucky enough to die in water, you're going to get burned and body camped, and since there's a delay in getting up and you're missing health chunks, it's just a matter of "well do I feed kills to these guys or do I just dip?"

On the other side of the equation, any time a team finds a solo, they're now forced to basically babysit the corpse just in case they get back up later, which is boring and tedious and a big reason why self res is so hated by most players.

The relocate is pretty strong, sure, and yeah it does kind of work as "death cheat with extra steps", but so what? who cares if some player you don't even know gets to keep their hunter after you beat them? you either removed them from the game or you've put them at a severe disadvantage if they're ballsy enough to keep going, either way the odds in your favour without it being a complete pain in the ass for both sides.

[hot vigil]

Well, while I never said I hated death cheat, I just pointed out that was what you turned Necro into.
Death Cheats have some issue with making it very reliable to max out hunters and events that had them made every Hunter lvl 50 fully traited beast and dying to fanning only fun for that long.
Nevertheless, I agree that solo is in a bad state right now where solo can get very little to do when locked down and sitting and locking down a solo is awfully tedious.
But I also think we need to remain the "hardcore death" nature of hunt. Death should be final for the most cases. And sure teams gets to do revives, but I can tell you that most team fights are rather snowball'y and losing one team-mate, usually leads to losing your next one and so on.
The reviving of team-mates happens either at the end of the fight or if the fight takes place 60-100m distance and you die behind cover, which solo necro also works in that regard.
The main crux of the death cheat with extra steps is that it is ONLY a maybe the extract, they might as well try to hunt you down when they get on their feet again and now they have information of where you are, but you don't got any on them. Also as I said, reliably death cheat also removes the whole economy factor from the game, especially when it is a teleport that takes your weapons with it.

[dull prawn]

like I've said, my idea isn't perfect, there's a lot of riffs you could do on it (maybe you lose your primary but keep your secondary when you revive, maybe the team that killed you gets a map marker for where you revive as well, ect) but at the end of the day my goal in suggesting it was less to have it be the be-all-end-all of the game and more to have it start a conversation on ways to improve and rework a currently very flawed feature that causes everybody involved a lot of trouble and is easily exploited

what's frustrating is crytek's silence on the matter - self res has been talked about since its inception, even before it became a permament addition to the game, and yet they seem to be pointedly ignoring it and instead just buffing the counterplay against it to the point where it's no longer viable in 90% of situations

[crystal plume]

I mean to be fair I don't think that you should have a viable chance of getting up if the enemy is essentially right next to you

To me it's fine if it works only at range or if the enemy happens to somehow not pay any attention to the body or majorly mess up otherwise

[hot vigil]

I can agree with that Diiba.
Just like you die out of position with team, you also not getting up for free.

Usually, in my experience, it usually seems like there is a dissonance of what people want solo necro to be able to do.

[trail oasis]

most lame part about self res is solo vs solo. where a fight in far distance become a ( if i leave my position to rush the body he might res and ambush me but if i look at the body and he never res i will never move) these situation is super lame

[signal mural]

I think there should be a clear "quick" counter - a trait or a consumable that you have to use as a direct application on their body that just denies further rezzing. That way it's fair - both have a trait slot used (or an otherwise useless tool slot) and neither is held captive by the other.

Solo Necromancer is 10 Sec? Make a Trait like "Exorcist" that only exists to strip Necromancer from a Hunter when Holding 'X' button on their body for 7 seconds.

[hot vigil]

I fundamentally disagree that any trait, tool or throwable should straight up counter another trait, tool or throwable.

Yes that means antidote shots too.

[dull prawn]

the problem here is that this current system basically forces teams to camp and babysit solos whenever they kill them, which as many players have pointed out, is fucking annoying. Being forced to rush to a solo you've downed and then watch them cook just to prevent them from getting up and shooting you in the back as you're moving on with your day sucks ass, just as being body camped and burned with no hope of actually being able to revive sucks

the current system creates a situation where both solos running necro and the teams they play against are having an actively bad time because of the trait. you might think this is "fine" but I think the constant and overwhelming amount of discourse caused by the trait in its current state is pretty clear evidence that your views are not shared by a large portion of the playerbase

[trail oasis]

so many peoples dislike solo self res but any suggestion always endup being massively downvoted in a moment by a group of solo diehards

[dire forum]

They could add feature similar to when start to banish accord to solo player who revives himself so it notice the surrendering that that guy just revived himself with lighting strike effect.

[trail oasis]

i am a solo player and i hate solo self res for the lame gameplay it bring. its not hunt showdown.

[dull prawn]

I like the sentiment behind it of making solo play more balanced against teams but the execution and its current state is absolute trash for everybody

[hot vigil]

Well, I also often feel solos have an unrealistic expectation of what solo necro should be abler to pull off.

[dull prawn]

this is largely the game's fault imo, in how it presents the trait in its descriptions and functionality

[trail oasis]

it just make no sense to me. you cant use it in normal situation. you need to abuse of it to make it good and it break the imersion and create tons of unpleasant situation for literally everyone... but lots of peoples only live to exploit broken and op shits so...

[hot vigil]

Dunno, don't think teams think necro is a "get your body outta jail free" trait. Otherwise people would call for it to teleport their buddies to them when they get necroed.

[signal mural]

I fail to see the difference here. What we have now is a system where multiple slots of a players inventory plus a long bit of time are invested to ensure that a fight against a fallen opponent is won and over.

[dull prawn]

the teleport/relocate idea probably isn't the best solution, but I'm yet to see somebody come up with a better one

[hot vigil]

What I've seen often is that solos want solo necro to be a way higher success rate than it realistically can be.
It is a bad luck mitigatory trait, not an extra life trait.
Same as team necro (while strong) is also not universally good, there are many cases where necro is just a wast of 4 points.

[trail oasis]

there situation like intense fight between many team wich you just cannot know wich downed hunter could be a solo and wich one was in team and cannot focus on disposing of body and then getting backstabed by a selfres jesus is kinda not something that should happen. res in team you can ear and counter it. a solo that res in a blindspot even if you ear him wakeup he will be ready to fight right away and do damage. its not a gameplay that should exist.

[hot vigil]

Another gameplan that I think shouldn't exist is "if I just wait 10 min I can come back".
And no not only targeting at solos, this event proves it s a fucking bore thanks to Peacekeeper. So many fights are just one team killing one guy and the rest of the team running away bc they can go pick them up later.

[dull prawn]

as I understood it, the intent behind self res was always to give solo players better balance against teams, not just to "mitigate bad luck", although it does also provide that. Personally, prior to the event before this one, I very much enjoyed playing solo with self res as it made the game both more fun and feel more fair, seldom were the times when I was able to get back up and kill the people who killed me, more often it just gave me another chance to fight back or, failing that, limp to an extraction and take the L, spending my trait points to buy back my health. It was enjoyable and meant I could play hunt pretty regularly without needing to organise friends or deal with randoms.

Now, however, playing solo is just a frustrating slog that gets you hated on by other players for being annoying while also being annoying in of itself - all because of how necro currently works

[signal mural]

The game is full of counters. Vigilant counters Traps. Bulwark counters FAR too much. Chokes counter fire and poison cloud.

I think if the counter comes with a risk it can be balanced.

[dull prawn]

I agree that necro should have counters, I just don't agree that those counters should make the entire feature utterly pointless - which is the case right now

[hot vigil]

No, Vigilant mitigate traps, they are still there. Bulwark mitigate explosives, but you still take damage (tho I agree that it killed flashbomb even further), chokes trades fire and poison for noise and coughing.

Antidote shot counters poison straight up, it removes it from the equation

[dull prawn]

this is a great point, these methods of counterplay still allow the thing they counterplay to have an impact

they require some effort on the part of the user or some tradeoff

countering self res right now is as simple as packing a flaregun or fusees and being able to sit and watch somebody burn for 5 minutes

[signal mural]

Yeah, but if the circumstances are clear then the counter is circumstancial. Your opponent is risking standing over your body for 7 seconds... if he's wrong and you're not a solo your teammate has an easy chance to take them out. If you are a necro and they didn't time it right you could try to revive and kill them ASAP.

Even if it was a purchasable burn trait I think it would be more fair than what we have now.

Yeah but a trait to mitigate an opponent reviving is exactly what I mean... They could still revive given the right scenario (distance to enemy, multiple enemy teams/chaos, mis-timed counter) but if they are already able to trap, burn, or camp your body then coming over and holding a button isn't really anything but expediting the process.

[hot vigil]

"..it does give solo players specifically a chance to kind of come back from an unexpected angle, in theory at least have like a second or third go.. ..it have questionable practical effect but the theory is there and the potential is there and that's the most important part, a good team will just to make sure that you will not make it up, like they will set you on fire or they will trap you or just somehow ensure that you cannot just come back from an unexpected angle, but you do have a chance to do this now, but it's not going to be a guaranteed revive however"

From the Devil's Moon Dev Live Stream, with lead game designer Dennis Schwarz talking about solo necro :)
EDIT: I had missed a line from the transcript that I corrected :)

It is very much intended to be a "sometimes it might work" trait

Would love to share the link to the stream with time stamp, but server doesn't allow me.
But it is at 36:12 on "The Devil's Moon | Developer Live Stream | Hunt: Showdown" on YouTube :)

[dull prawn]

ah, well I'd still argue that the way the game is set up and how the game presents the trait doesn't reinforce that at all

if that was their intent I feel there's better ways they could have achieved it, is what I mean

[hot vigil]

Well, I can partially agree with that, but like, dunno, the trait sets it up as plainly as it can.
Dunno why more expectations should be implied to that.
It is not like if I read bloodless I now expect it to stop bleeding all together.

[dull prawn]

the flaw itself is in the trait's function, it lets you self-revive as a solo, and that's all it does/all it says it does for solo players so most players are going to read that and go "oh so I can get back up in a gunfight!"

if it was a trait called, I dunno, "lucky" or something that let you get back up if AI killed you or something that'd be different

and intent aside, the problems remain

[hot vigil]

Again, like bulwark makes you resitant to explosives, you can still die to them or like beastface makes animals react less to you, you can still trigger them.

If solo necro read "guarantee at least one revive per match" sure, then I can see it.

[dull prawn]

you're missing my point here: you're saying that it "should be obvious" how self revive is supposed to work, with it being very situational, but the mere fact we're having this conversation and the fact that self res causes so much discourse as a whole is pretty good evidence to me that the vast majority of the playerbase do not see or use it that way

[hot vigil]

Well that was what I started with to begin with: "Well, I also often feel solos have an unrealistic expectation of what solo necro should be abler to pull off."

[dull prawn]

again, that's the game's fault imo

not saying you're wrong, just saying its a part of the larger issue

[hot vigil]

Dunno man, feel like people maybe should just take a step back and read the trait and then gauge the applicability of it to the game.

[dull prawn]

if it were that simple then again, we wouldn't be seeing so much discourse around it

[stoic garnet]

making world poison effect deniable by this shot and call weapon effect "poison" something like acid and make the antidote shot just shorten the effect length. so you still help people struggling with hive and meathead poison damage and not make poison ammo completely meaningless for fights

[hot vigil]

Like how Dauntless is in theory a strong trait, but then you use your game knowledge and know that meta is to cook the throwables.

[hot vigil]

Because people like having an edge. It is bias, they read the trait, imagine the best case scenario and want that to happen all the time.
It is something called in "Timmy thinking/ambitions" in MtG design space.

Where you see the pay-off, but doesn't take the viability of the set-up into account.

Again, dauntless comes to mind.

It cool and powerful you can negate a 100 hunt buxx throwable with 1 point trait, but then you gauge the set-up and see it ain't viable 99% of the time bc people cook throwables in Hunt.

But we don't call for nerfing throwables as a whole, so we cannot cook them, just to make dauntless more viable.

[dull prawn]

we can talk about intent and presentation til the cows come home, the problem remains the same: the way the trait is right now makes it very annoying for both people using it and people playing against it, and simply saying "well the entire playerbase should just get better reading comprehension and think a little harder" doesn't really work as a valid solution to that problem, imo

[hot vigil]

Tho I think it is a good start if we want to fix the problem :)
Bc most of the time when people suggest a change to necro, people will go up in arms about how that would make it worse and the correction needed is to make solo necro stronger.

[dull prawn]

you are saying the solution to the issue at hand is "the entire playerbase needs to change", that's not how fixing game problems works

[hot vigil]

Because simply put, issue of solo necro is that people are disagreeing if it needs to be buffed or nerfed.

[dull prawn]

I think it needs to be completely overhauled, personally

[signal mural]

#game-ideas message

I took a pretty conservative attempt at a poison rework.

[hot vigil]

Sure, but even a overhaul will either end up buffing or nerfing the trait.

At the end of the day what I see 90% of solo fixes suggest by solos is that they want it to become a more reliable successful trait.
Which was never the intention of the trait.

[signal mural]

Because I also don't like hard counters

[dull prawn]

I'm going to have to push back against you on this at least when it comes to recent developments, since most of the suggestions for "buffing" self res nowadays are mostly concerned with making it work at all

currently it is so unreliable as to be borderline pointless

[hot vigil]

Make poison a build-up mechanic, poison ammo deals less damage, but if a threshold is reached you take a burst amount of damage :V

[hot vigil]

Which when you see look at the devs intentions of the trait is what it is supposed to do.
"Sometimes you can pull it off, but most of the time a skilled team will lock you down"

[signal mural]

That sounds too similar to bleed IMO

[hot vigil]

Well, still give the hue and noise stuff

But yeah very true it is even straight up elden ring bleed

[dull prawn]

if that's honestly what the devs want then I will reiterate what I said in my most recent suggestion: just fucking remove it at that point

a trait that is borderline useless, annoying to both use and deal with, and easily exploitable is not a good addition to the game

previously it kind of worked to make solo play more viable

[signal mural]

If it worked like ER people would be livid and wondering wtf killed them

[dull prawn]

now it doesn't, now it just annoys the shit out of everybody

[hot vigil]

Again, think it is fine traits are not "must have" for any playstyle.
Also think traits like iron eye, due to its faster fire-rate it gives and doctor are bad traits.
They feel too much like an auto include.

[hot vigil]

Hive Ladies just became a final boss :p

[hot vigil]

Again I would love to make sure that solo necro ain't annoying to deal with, but usually saying "make the self-rez have a 20 second max window for self rez" makes people mad sooo

[dull prawn]

it makes people mad because it would just make it even more useless than it already is, which is very useless

regardless, we're talking in circles

I think the only thing we're going to agree on is that necro in its current state fucking sucks and needs some kind of change

[hot vigil]

Again, is it useless or do people just have unrealistic expectations :)

[dull prawn]

I'd argue its pretty useless

[hot vigil]

Dunno man, devs literally said, it not supposed to work most of the time and if a team locks you down then you out.
Can not really see what else to expect from it.

[dull prawn]

and I don't think the counterargument of

"no, you don't get it, it's meant to be shitty and not work most of the time" is the gotcha you think it is

dev intention or none

[hot vigil]

Well, it still have it uses, it wins trades, it let you come back from 100m headshots, it let you come back from AI deaths and it let you come back from chaotic fights.

Solo necro is still better than no necro.

[dull prawn]

tell that to all the teams who have to sit and babysit every solo corpse they come across

[hot vigil]

But just like normal necro it doesn't let you come back from 2-3 people point at your burning corpse.

[hot vigil]

Yes I hate it, hence why I just want to put a 20-30 sec cap on revive window.

[signal mural]

Poison could/should drain stamina. I think it would be great if poison shot let you just take significantly reduced DMG from poison cloud, have zero blurr when poisoned and have reduced but not blocked healing.

[hot vigil]

Could be interesting too :D

[dull prawn]

which would mean there would be virtually no reason to ever run it over other traits

but again, agree to disagree

[hot vigil]

Dunno it still wins trades and 100m headshots or if you step on a random barrel bomb.

Again, dunno why it is hard to warp around that a trait shouldn't be a guarantee "get out of jail" mechanic. Only one trait in hunt have that and that is bulwark straight up countering flashbombs which really doesn't mean anything bc enemy gets told it didnt' work and flashbombs ain't a thing anymore.

[dull prawn]

I could keep arguing with you on this but honestly I'm tired and pissed off and I doubt it would be productive for either of us, it's pretty clear neither of us are going to reach any sort of agreement on this

[hot vigil]

Sure, but I would urge you to reflect about the design philosophy of the trait and try to gauge how it could work in the greater system of hunt.

[dull prawn]

here's all I know: I used to have fun playing this game solo with self res

now I don't

now this game is a fucking chore for me

and with that I'm going to dip from this conversation before I say something I regret, goodbye.

[signal mural]

Honestly Solo-Necro's MMR abuse is what really makes it a huge pisser. I wish there was some code to polarized vindictive rezzing... like deaths within 10seconds of rezzing begin to give you MMR after the first time and your killer receives no bonus MMR.

[hot vigil]

Yeah, well, that is what happens when the meta adjust to the trait.

[hot vigil]

Some people have suggest that in general you should only get/lose MMR for the first death/kill per. enemy hunter.

So if the same hunter kills you twice he only get one instance of MMR and you only lose one instance of MMR

[signal mural]

Good talking, hope you have a nice night.

[signal mural]

Ja, but that then mutes the value of actual cool intensive slogs too. I just want the solo rez abuse to be curtailed.

[hot vigil]

I can see that ofc.
Think most of all people who solo maybe shouldn't get the MMR decrease.
But that might be too brutal for most people.

[signal mural]

I think they should but only when it's a legitimate play not just rezzing into c. bomb. I honestly think that should push the solo up into a higher bracket to discourage vindictively rezzing.

[hot vigil]

Well issue is that sometimes you can tank a death or two to get out of a conc trap

[signal mural]

Yeah, true. I feel like that scenario is extremely rare... that you aren't burning & buried in barbs.

[signal mural]

Thanks for the civil chat & perspectives. My battery is about to die so I'll head out. Catcha next time.

[knotty oak]

To be honest what's your argument here? I could not read all your conversation of today but I understood you are complaining that you as a solo get camped and burned ones you are killed for the first time... I am honest here... I do exactly the same regardless if I try my luck solo or in trio team... my question: why the hell should I risk your revive to get shot in the back or killed somewhere else on the map by someone I have already killed? You are asking the people to leave you and give you the chance to revive? 😄

I mean... Honestly... I even have a very funny recording I have not uploaded yet, where we as a random trio team lose the bounty in the very end to one sneaky solo because we HAVE NOT CAMPED him... Is that what you are asking for? Others should lose more to give solos the chance to win? Sorry I really don´t get it...

[hot vigil]

Likewise, have good one!

[dull prawn]

I will direct you to these two posts and they'll probably sum up my feelings on the subject, I'm not interested in talking about it any further, I feel I've made my opinion pretty clear:
#game-ideas message
#feedback message

[knotty oak]

Okay thanks... So I got you right... "the fact that every lost gunfight now results in being instantly popped with a Flare or Fuse and body camped has made the game boring, frustrating and overall unenjoyable" of course it is frustrating but what's the alternative? Knowing a solo can self revive or knowing a teammate is able to revive a partner does not make any difference... I don´t see any bad about being careful as a opponent and not letting this revive happen neither by solo nor by other teammate...

Acting other than that would mean I do not care if I lose or win and I do not like to lose, like you do not like it also obviously 😉

[slim pollen]

#game-ideas message

On one hand, that's a massive nerf to solo necro, on the other hand that's cool enough to outweigh any dislike I have.

[hot vigil]

Fun, but still doesn't change anything

We still would have to burn out the corpse

[alpine gust]

it is thrilling if you are going for the first 300 hours. you will reach the point where, you wish there is a button to run like a toggle because you know nobody will stop you along the way. adding 1 more team will ensure you have atleast a gunfight. gunfight makes the game thrilling

[slim pollen]

With this suggestion you could prevent a solo from rezing by just tracking down the grunt they're possessing.

[hot vigil]

I guess, but like what is "nearby" even a 50m jump to a grunt could basically mean you'll never find the grunt

And the player is never gonna have the chance to get to the body and revive.

[slim pollen]

Assuming the grunt is still as fragile as a normal grunt as well, you could drop a lantern on top of the body and the solo couldn't get close enough to revive themselves.

[hot vigil]

Yeah it would just make solo necro 1000x times worse and still not solve the issue of having to wait for the burn

[slim pollen]

A lantern burns for about a minute, which is plenty of time to track down a grunt, and even if not, a minute on fire would bring a solo's max HP down to 75 at most.

[hot vigil]

Still wouldn't solve the crux of the issue, people don't want to burn out a corpse that have no chance to come back unless you leave it be

[slim pollen]

This wouldn't be any worse than a duo with team necro. In fact it's easier to deal with since the grunt can't really hurt you.

[knotty oak]

but what is really the difference to team? not burning a trio member is pure stupidity... it does not matter if solo duo or trio... are you guys really asking for giving opponents better chances to come back and screw you?

[slim pollen]

It also cuts the wait time in half from 2 minutes to just one, all you need is two lanterns which are easy to get. On top of that if you use a liquid fire bomb you just throw and forget since they burn long enough to fully kill a solo.

Overall I think the suggestion is solid. It makes it more engaging to deal with a dead solo and it decreases the time you need to babysit them by about half. What more would anyone want?

As to whether or not the devs would see fit to invest the time into a change like this, I have no idea. It feels more likely they'll ignore solo necro or apply a bandaid patch.

[hot vigil]

What? I'm not sure if you understand what I favour.

[hot vigil]

Does it really? Grunts are loud and cannot do much. Solo is never gonna get a revive off from a grunt walking up to the body.

[slim pollen]

They could in cases where there's lots of chaos (multi-team fights for example) or if they trade with the last member of a team. In other words, only when necro should ever be useful.

[hot vigil]

Current would still work better in that case

[knotty oak]

Lets face it Solo Necro is useless - and its okay that it is to be honest 😄 - as long as you are not lucky enough being in a very chaotic situation or a fight between more than two teams...

[hot vigil]

It adds literally nothing, you cannot do any skillful play even as grunt.

[hot vigil]

Agreed and dunno if you saw the quote I dropped from Dennis, lead designer of Hunt talking about that is basically what it should do.

[slim pollen]

The point isn't necesarrily to add anything to solo necro, it's to take away the one situation people find it frustrating. When you've downed a solo and you have to wait for 2+ minutes for them to burn out.

[knotty oak]

And I think it really is fine like it is... It gives a Solo a small chance but no safety to MAYBE be able to come back

[hot vigil]

Again, turning the solo into a grunt is not gonna change that. Think you underestimate how hard it is to find someone who is intentionally hiding in Hunt.

[slim pollen]

I mostly play solo, I think that overall it's fine, it's just the aforementioned scenario that keeps popping up.

[slim pollen]

And again, if the necro grunt hides, you can still drop a lantern on the corpse, keeping a solo from aproaching themselves.

[knotty oak]

I really think I agree to @hot vigil ... Your idea brings a huge portion of effort and complicates it and is not really making anything better...

[slim pollen]

I'm advocating my support for Russtiel's idea, it's not mine 👍

[hot vigil]

And then we back to waiting at the burning corpse :)

[slim pollen]

And for the third time, you'd be waiting half as long as normal.

[hot vigil]

Literally solves nothing it is still about burning out a hunter that is already dead and locked down.

[hot vigil]

Why?

[knotty oak]

You know what would be a very disruptive idea? No Solo Play at all... My feeling is Hunt is and should always be a Team Game

[hot vigil]

Naw solo is fine to an extend, just that it shouldn't be as intrusive to the meta.

You wanna play the optional hard mode sure go ahead, but don't expect to be on equal footing against trios.

[knotty oak]

Just think about it

it would make Hunt much better in total

all solos would be forced to play at least random team

all the implementations for solos, trying to balancing the traits etc. all is just fixing symptoms

[hot vigil]

Again I disagree, tho I can see solo maaaaybe be locked out from trios because it is so scewered a match up that either solo is gonna get dunked on or they need huge gains of artificial power.

[knotty oak]

In the end the whole Solo thing brings more issues and discussions than it really helps anyone... Matchmaking is another special topic for Solo... I for example still play on 3-4 Stars... After having a bad phase and falling back to low 3 Star I already multiple times ended up as a Solo in Matches with one Duo and the rest just Solos...

This is not Hunt Showdown it should be

and again... preventing those things by implementing some rules is fighting symptoms

[hot vigil]

There are for sure a popularity for solo play.
But also think it is bad indicator of how easy it is to play solo with the amount of solos there are.
Ofc it is a tough situation and I don't want to tell people "you shouldn't play solo unless you REALLY good at it", but it hard to make feel fun for everyone and even solos have issues with too many solos in a match.

[knotty oak]

Yeah the popularity is because everyone wants to be the next RachtaZ or Psychoghost wiping a Server Solo and showing 16 Kills with just a Knife is their hands

This all leads to some developments that unfortunately don't always do Hunt Showdown as a whole any good... But still it's a really unique and great game

[hot vigil]

Or just, well... randoms leaves a lot to be desired

[thorny spindle]

This is because there are not enough people at that rank for the matchmaking system to find anyone but solos

[knotty oak]

Yeah... I also had many Random Teams that frustrated me a lot but on the whole, the rounds were mostly quite good... And I still think that duos and trios are what this game is all about...

[knotty oak]

Yeah but again that is just because of the matchmaking and the compromises you need to accept in matchmaking if you accept solos

me being low 3 star on some days being downgraded even lower (because joining solo) leads to no team being that low to be mixed in rounds... it can end up in a very bad vicious circle

[thorny spindle]

Well the issue could be alleviated by reducing solo mmr debuff

[knotty oak]

fighting symptoms again 🤣 enough of that... I think we could debate on this forever

[thorny spindle]

This mechanic isn’t a “symptom” of solo play, it was a deliberate mechanic they put into the game. Happens for duos v trios too.

[hot vigil]

Think solos might be a little more healthy it was for duo play only, think it is easier to buff/nerf the viablity of the playstyle when it is the "1v2" match-up compared to the raw skill and numeric value needed in 1v3.

[thorny spindle]

To be fair, I don’t think flare guns were added to punish solos either, the flare gun was by and large useless before the update, super useful in duo and trio fights

[hot vigil]

Well, bc throwing axes got added :P

[thorny spindle]

I love my throwing axe

We are best friends forever

[knotty oak]

sure but leads into more heavy issues for solos than any other in the game... balancing all this and making exceptions for special player groups can lead you into a total mess because you never can change one small factor without creating dependencies to others...

[signal mural]

I just don't get how this topic can spark hour long debates every time and Crytek doesn't really comment on it or hint at a review of the system.

[radiant river]

That is the weirdest part

[knotty oak]

I also would not do

😄

because you cant make it perfect

that's what I am saying... there will always be related issues to changes if you experiment on symptoms

[signal mural]

No one is asking for perfect, but this is obviously a dumpster fire.

[hot vigil]

Keep being an issue and people keep disagreeing :V

Ah nvm I cannot read

I got what you meant now

that it is sucha permanent topic while Crytek doesn't at least even go "we are looking into it"

[knotty oak]

@Crytek... my personal recommendation... Get rid of solo at all and voila immediately hundreds of issues are gone 🤓

[hot vigil]

Again no need for sucha radical measure.
But we could try a "full teams only" opt-in function. To see how much teams wanna play with solos.

[knotty oak]

Great... I would never ever turn this checkbox off again...

But what it would also mean is ultimately the same thing I'm suggesting, because I predict almost no solo will find a match again afterwards

[hot vigil]

Dunno there are some people who claim they love playing with solos

in their match

[knotty oak]

really? I do not know one

😄

But seriously, is this "checkbox for solos" idea already in the suggetions area?

you should put it in there

[hot vigil]

Did and people hated it

[knotty oak]

Yeah 30 of 31 where Solo only players seeing the end coming 😄

[crystal plume]

I don't play solo much and I also would've downvoted, no offense

[hot vigil]

none taken

[crystal plume]

It would just be another division in queues for a "gain" that wouldn't offset the downside of that division

[hot vigil]

Yeah that is also my biggest concern

[thorny spindle]

I think solos are interesting to fight, they shake up the game loop a bit

[knotty oak]

And what is the "downside"?

[hot vigil]

Yeah don't mind the odd solo, but I think there is issues where trio matches have 7-8 solos.

[crystal plume]

Longer queues, most likely mainly for solos but possibly also for others depending on how many people end up using that

[hot vigil]

Would love a 3 solo max per. match lock maybe.

[hot vigil]

Personally I would not mind longer queues

[knotty oak]

yeah so you fear the need for this 😄

because you foresee to much usage of it

[thorny spindle]

I’ve only ever seen matches that have more than one or two solos in 3 star when I’m myself queueing solo. Every other time it’s mostly teams.

[knotty oak]

thats ignoring facts 😉

[knotty oak]

same for me

[crystal plume]

I don't see it that way, I think a lot of people would tick it without much though

I think that only a minority of people would tick it specifically because they really do not want to face solos

[thorny spindle]

You shouldn’t be able to not play against solos, you should be forced to adapt to them.

[trail carbon]

I think adapt is a strong word

[thorny spindle]

solos are easy to rectify, man, put a trap, choke, or burn, and they’re donezo

[knotty oak]

don´t see your point... what other reason should be to tick it beside not wanting solos in my match?

[hot vigil]

Solo opt into the games they wanna play, why can't teams? :)

[knotty oak]

and then comes the solo complaining beeing burned and babysitted 😄

thats exactly what we are discussing for hours now

[trail carbon]

I play solo a decent amount (a lot less than I used to, to be fair) but solos are really annoying to play against. Even as another solo, I get annoyed.

[crystal plume]

I'm saying that people would just tick it without a good reason 😄 But it would also probably eventually lead to more people ticking it to get faster queues even if they didn't care if there were solos or not

[knotty oak]

I disagree... There is a good reason... No Solos in my Match

[crystal plume]

For you

[trail carbon]

I would not mind having a no solo tick box even if it meant longer queues. Obviously only teams can tick it, but still.

[thorny spindle]

Because solo v duo / solo v trio is substantially easier to fight than duo v trio

[knotty oak]

yeah and you confirmed fearing to many people thinking like this because they are annoyed by solos leading to much longer queues for solos

[hot vigil]

Can you define "without good reason" and can you provide another example of such case? :)

[trail carbon]

Solos have a plethora of advantages nowadays to be fair

[thorny spindle]

not really. more than one person on your team push them at the same time and they die, cant look two places at once

their "advantages" only come around when they are in the dirt l0l

[trail carbon]

1. Significantly lowered MMR
2. Solo revive
3. Other solo only trait benefits
4. Ability to move faster because you're alone

The massive MMR reduction is the real kicker

[knotty oak]

I would love it... But I agree there is a high risk for the whole game because as I said I foresee majority does not like Solos in their Team Play 😉

[trail carbon]

Yeah, maybe they should remove MMR reduction when you queue at a disadvantage on purpose

[thorny spindle]

1. You are playing against two or three people; that is always better than being one person
2. If the duos and trios you fight can revive their teammates, whats the difference that a solo can do it?
3. Magpie puts you up to the same dark sight time as the duos and trios you fight
4. true

[hot vigil]

Okay, but why can't teams choose what kind of match they go into while solos can?
In my bracket of MMR solos are easy kills most of the time, but still doesn't make up for the unfun aspects they bring to some teams.

[trail carbon]

That goes for duo v trio as well

[crystal plume]

I don't know how to say that many people don't think based on what I have seen throughout my time here and elsewhere in a professional manner 😄

[trail carbon]

My guy, I am usually a five star and it puts me in 3 and 4 star lobbies when I play solo. I can absolutely roll over a trio easily, I cannot choose to turn this off. Solo revive has issues that have been talked about to death

[knotty oak]

okay, thats really not an argument... but hey... anyway...

[trail carbon]

Magpie is fine I guess, serpent is silly for solos though

[thorny spindle]

i completely forgot serpent was a thing for solos

[knotty oak]

I am out here and still will camp and burn every solo in this game because it is the most stupid thing to not do... just my personal opinion

[crystal plume]

I don't know what argument you are expecting when my point is quite literally that some people will tick it without any arguments themselves, some will check it specifically for it's use case, some will tick it for faster queues since it would end up as the default option regardless of people wanting or not wanting solos in their matches, some will tick it without putting much thought to it at all

[trail carbon]

But yeah, in conclusion, I think MMR reduction for facing trios as a solo or a duo, and for facing duos as a solo should be removed. I also hate solo revive to the point where I do not personally use it as a solo.

[knotty oak]

there is just one argument

not wanting to play with a solo

and there is no way in misunderstanding that

[crystal plume]

You are ignoring my point 😄

Let's just agree to disagree

[knotty oak]

even if someone clicks it for faster queue

it is a VALID argument

all you agree on is fearing that feature and thats what I really accept and also see

no one in team would ever uncheck this ones it is there

[trail carbon]

While I do personally want an opt out of solo tick box, I think it's not solving anything

It's just solving a symptom of the issues that solos have right now

[signal mural]

I don't think so... It would probably just lead to servers with lots of solos. Hell in a lot of my Event matches there are more solos than teams.

[knotty oak]

in the end it is the same I am saying... Solos would need to fight Solos only... but hey there still is a choise of just playing random duo or trio if you want to have fun with teams

all @crystal plume is saying is like "we need to protect people by making choices they might not understand" 😄 this really made my day for now

[crystal plume]

Still not my point, and putting words into my mouth doesn't help your point any more either

[radiant river]

the devs have shown they dont want to split the queues with random checkboxes on the menu

for good reason

[crystal plume]

Again, I have simply agreed to disagree, I recommend you do the same

[knotty oak]

"some will tick it without putting much thought to it at all" 😄

[crystal plume]

That is what I said indeed

What you put in quotations earlier was nothing like what I said nor thought

[knotty oak]

yeah... so you think you should serve my pizza always with cheese because having the option to choose I dont like cheese might be a decision i do not put enough thought into it 😉

[trail carbon]

He is right though. Most people would see the box and think "I don't enjoy playing with solos" and just tick it and leave it that way

[knotty oak]

correct and what's wrong about it?

[crystal plume]

That was not my point either

Man

[trail carbon]

Wait what

[crystal plume]

I'll just move on 😄

You guys enjoy your discussion

[knotty oak]

wish you a nice weekend 🤣 👍

[trail carbon]

I guess I don't get what he was trying to say

[knotty oak]

forget it...

I see the point and risk this would ruin the game at all for many people and not to forget for many content creators.... I accept that there might be also a "political" reason to not do this

and that's fine, but then simply call out some real reasons and arguments behind it

[plucky crane]

Is there a guide for knowing how fast each muzzle velocity gun travels to hit someones head running from afar? Or something along those lines

I’m unsure how far ahead i need to aim to hit a headshot depending on muzzle velocities

[thorny spindle]

There’s some video guides out there on YouTube, but it’s mostly just something you get a feel for eventually

[plucky crane]

Know any idea what i’d search up?

[thorny spindle]

Just search up “how to lead in hunt showdown”, should give you a couple videos :)

[plucky crane]

Ty

[flat sandal]

that is the hardest part I think, the "life time to master" part. I think best pick a gun and run it for a good while to have it as a reference in your head to start with.

@jagged wagon I thought that is actually a dope mechanic. It's like you potentially get another team to fight while having more options yourself as well.

Matter of taste of course. Just read your feedback and realised, somewhat surprised, that not everyone likes it 😄

Think it adds excitement and variation that is more predictable then, say, a random solo popping back up.

what's the exploit?

[jagged wagon]

Read cryteks post in general announcements.

The big problem with peacekeeper is it makes burning completely pointless now. Burning is meant to put pressure on a team mate to save his partner and come out to fight, now they just go to ground and wait it out. What fun gameplay.

[flat sandal]

what are they doing? some sort of solo necro type XXL derank?

I wouldn't say it's completely pointless but I can understand that it is controversial

It adds complexity and more opportunity to fight, I personally don't really care if it's the same team.

oh lol, I get it. The length some players go through 😄

tbh I didn't even know that looting gives a health chunk back. Just get rid of that.

[pearl summit]

@solar wraith Hunt already struggles for new players. New modes will not give game any good boost

[solar wraith]

Heavily disagree. If you're struggling for new players, you need to do something new. Tide of Shadows brought in their highest levels of players ever, because of good marketing, Rotjaw, and rain.

This team is AMAZING with marketing and cool videos for their events. If they market their new modes, players will come and stay - especially if they can draw back old Vets with a Classic Mode and help new players with a Wave Mode that doesn't pit them against broken MMR PVP unfriendliness. Hunt is hard to get into partially because of the players.

[tiny pivot]

I only knew about hunt from word of mouth cuz it had like virtually no advertisement pre tide of shadows xd

And I was lucky to get in earlier

[hot vigil]

Issue is if you get new players in with a new mode, then you don't necessarily make Hunt grow, you just earn new players for a new mode.
Like how sure techinically more people starting playing CoD with warzone getting added (and f2p) but also, not those people translated into CoD standard multiplayer.

[pearl summit]

Sorry, but you apparently don't understand marketing. This game has virtually no marketing. No advertising, no promotion. Don't confuse interesting videos and marketing. This game almost died initially due to the fact that the developers had no money for marketing.
New mods won't help the game grow. I also thought they would help, but no.
People play the game for several reasons. But the most important thing is the PvPvE component, which gives an unrealistically large number of different game situations.
MMR needs to be redone and at least 10 ranks be made, but most likely the player base is simply not enough.

[vital fractal]

I mean, warzone was/is a separate game at this point that was also free- so not something that can be translated well here

Also this game has like 0 marketing

We all fell into this game by pure chance lol

Literally pure chance

Seriously, who here was like- “Whoa cryteks doing a new game/pushing a game named hunt! I gotta check it out!”