feedback-discussion

[vital fractal]

I gotta get back to my alchemy

[late quartz]

Legendary dodge

[vital fractal]

I’ll let you guys be

[vital fractal]

Was a crit dodge?

I mean, cause I can keep going just wait a hour or two and I’ll be back then

If you so please

[brazen wave]

#game-ideas message I like this idea, the only caveat is it needs to be a sound that isn’t painful to hear physically lol

[brazen wave]

#game-ideas message @quick dragon it is just part of the risk of taking scopes, and you aren't at that much of a disadvantage if you know how to quick aim well

[vital fractal]

@quick dragon Personally I just view it as a “I prepped for this but that happened instead” and is something I view inherent to the game, sometimes we are tossed into situations we are not prepared for- the more specialized the loadout (like snipers), the harsher the adversity should be if the context does not allow for the proper usage- and I’m ok with that personally, can’t complain since loadouts will always have weaknesses and not every time will hunt allow you to play in your strengths- especially for snipers which can be rather strong at time-

So personally I’d just say deal with, leave and extract and reroll or go ahead and see how scopes in fog or rain are still useful imo

Nonetheless an alternative I think would be good is a singular fixed alt loadout (you set it in menu and buy the gear, like a separate loadout slot) that allows a player in the first 1 minute of the match to interact at spawn to swap to this alternate loadout- HOWEVER the loadout only allows for 2 Tools/1 consumable, and only allows for 3 weapon slots (so that full size weapon is all you get) but it will always be an option upon loading in until you swap- at which case, it’ll be used up and you’ll have to buy the gear again

You can’t swap back if you accidentally click into it either

I’d be mildly annoyed at how much of a hand hold swapping loadouts is, as really like- just fucking deal with the weather but I think this could be agreeable

[frigid folio]

@quick dragon I'm down voting because those that take snipers are making to conscious choice to bring that weapon in. There is always a risk your load out is at a disadvantage against another in certain situations. A shotgun user will get destroyed if caught out and about. But you only ever hear those who bring scopes complaining when their load out is at a disadvantage 💁‍♂️

I bring a scope every now and then because it is enjoyable to snipe someone from far away and play on easy mode. But I do so knowing that there is a chance I might get placed at a disadvantage and will have to adapt.

Tbh I think they should make it so you can't leave the game until at least 1 bounty has left via extract, force everyone to play the game rather than people dcing/leaving because they don't have pristine conditions for their loadout 😅

Leaving early with a scope because of weather conditions is the same as leaving early with a shotgun because it's a day map and "people can see me easily from far away" 😅

I think the best option would be the new changing maps they are bringing in, like the new fog map. Sometimes the fog is heavy giving some load outs an advantage, then the fog let's up and the scopes have a strong advantage. (Iron sight rifles just being in the middle ground at all times).
Maybe like a map that swaps between day/night (maybe like eclipse???) Would be really cool

[worthy knoll]

@quick dragon I fully agree with you. Either we Know more about weather or get a "altenate" loadout. I would Always leave when Theres fog as a Sniper.

[hot vigil]

In my experience, fog doesn't really hamper most scoped weapons. You can still use a scope in fog or rain in a way that is lethal and viable.
Sure not 100% optimal, but god forbid the very safe and passive playstyle has a downside

That said, both rain and Desolation should have less uptime on their heavy rain/dank zone duration.

And it would be cool if fog had the same kind of system where you'd have light and heavy fog.

And last addition to this ramble, it is only really sniper scopes that is affected by fog and whatnot. If you cannot make a deadyeye or marksman work under those conditions then honestly skill issue

[queen jungle]

Taking specialised gear just comes with the risk of it not being ideal for certain conditions. Handling such situations is just part of being a skilled hunter and if you don't want to take that risk, you should either coordinate your loadout with your teammate so the two of you cover as many possibilities as possible or take more universal loadouts.

Making the game even easier is no solution in my opinion, it just waters down Hunt from what used to be: a challenging shooter, as opposed to all the arcady casual shooters out there.

[subtle lichen]

People leaving conditions they don't like sucks so hard. I played a round of ash bloom last night and I'm fairly sure ¾ of the lobby left almost immediately because it was just me and one other guy who took bounty tokens.

I wouldn't advocate for not allowing it, but it'd be nice if there was some sort of incentive to stay.

[hot vigil]

That too, also think have an issue of people being able to extract and disconnect if they don't like the condition.
Players just go "I cannot play scope in this" and never tries or let them be challenged by the circumstances.
It is big mental wall that just keeps being reinforced by the ease of leaving the match.

Because, spoiler, if people actually starts playing fog maps and whatnot, then they'll learn and overcome the limitations and god forbid, actually improve as a player :p

I've for the longest time been advocating that you cannot disconnect at the beginning of the match and extractions ain't showned on the map until after the boss starts banishing.

That would at least keep people in the match for 5 min or so haha

[rotund obsidian]

#game-ideas message @carmine kiln what exactly is this trying to fix?

[carmine kiln]

Burning hunters has always been a sore spot in the game and I figured this might not be a bad change. I don't mind the current system but I know there is a lot of people complaining about insta burns so this would be a way to combat those people complaining.

Though people will find something to complain about. Just a thought and I thought it was a good option to balancing insta burning and a way to indirectly balance flares and fuses in terms of burning down hunters

[rotund obsidian]

So you want to extend the time it takes to burn someone out? I'm just a bit confused by your wording

[carmine kiln]

Yea so the time it takes would increase by x amount the longer they are burning

[rotund obsidian]

I don't think extending the burn time is gonna fix anything, if anything it might cause more complaints about having to sit and watch a solo burn for even longer.

I'd actually figure the opposite would be better, where burning starts off slower and ramps up over time (specifically so the burn time for a 125 body is around the same), so that instaburning is less effective at lowering health if they end up getting extinguished/revived halfway through, but you don't have to sit and wait for even longer to burn out a body completely.

[carmine kiln]

There are many things that they could do but it is not like it has to significantly increase the time by minutes. Just maybe every 30 secs on fire the burn rate decreased by 5%. Or in your case increased by 5%. I think increasing the burning time makes you make a decision do I stay and risk not having time to complete the contract or do I leave him burning without watching and risk him getting up and coming back

So it makes your time count even more when making the decisions you make mid game

[rotund obsidian]

Eh, people are still gonna just sit and wait until they burn out no matter how long you make it, they're just gonna get more frustrated about it.

[hot vigil]

Yeah prolonging the burn time ain't a fix haha.
People are tired of burning, they wanna burn less, not more

[carmine kiln]

Well that could be true but in the end there will be people who complain about anything. They will never make the whole community happy. And everyone has a right to their own opinion on the matter. Was just a thought so people could stop whining about insta burners cause if it takes longer to burn more chance for something to happen while you are burning

[hot vigil]

People are whining about insta burn bc insta burn is required for winning.
That is the issue, the advent of necro and then solo necro makes burning mandatory.

[subtle lichen]

I don't think instaburning is as much of a problem as people make out. If it's a problem for you, there's a great solution; skill issue. Don't get deaded.

[hot vigil]

Yeah, dunno not to throw stones too hard, but the only people I see complaining about burning are solos.

[subtle lichen]

I play solo a lot and I think it's fine atm.

[hot vigil]

Okay let me rephrase, the most people that seems to complain are solos.

[subtle lichen]

If I get burned while I'm down? Shame. But at least I'm not staring down financial oblivion over losing a few rounds in a row these days.

[carmine kiln]

I don't care either way if they leave it the way it is or change it. I am fine with current system. Just figured I would throw out an idea I had

[subtle lichen]

In fact, I often don't bother taking Necro as one of my early traits because a decent chunk of the time there's no point atm.

[hot vigil]

That is completely fine :)
Just feel it is trying to addressing the issue of a lose screw with wrench.

[subtle lichen]

Serpent is far more useful tbh.

[rotund obsidian]

I'm definitely complaining about burning. I think that instaburning is too prevalent rn after the flaregun/fusee change.

[carmine kiln]

At least it is getting addressed

[rotund obsidian]

Do I think burning as a mechanic needs to fundamentally change? no. Would I like to see flaregun/fusee burning somehow mitigated slightly (without impacting other uses, ideally)? yes

[carmine kiln]

How about they change the burn rate based on what is used to set the person on fire

[subtle lichen]

I mean, they aren't as good as a firebomb or whatever because you put out the flare if you res/are ressed.

[rotund obsidian]

changing burn rate in any form is not the solution imo

[subtle lichen]

If you res in a firebomb, congrats you're on fire.

[hot vigil]

Sure, but I think it is more constructive to see WHY players instaburn more often than previously.

[carmine kiln]

Fire bombs - normal burn rate
Lantern, fuses, dragon breath - burn rate cut in half (takes twice as long)
Flare pistol - burn rate cut in third (3x as long to burn out). Covers the new flare and fuse and makes each have a place. And by saying changing the burn rate could mean anything

[rotund obsidian]

yeah but they're so disposable you can just ignite anyone you see and probably still have plenty between your team to reignite anyone who happens to be a solo. Firebombs are more of an investment, you don't just toss them willy nilly on everyone

[subtle lichen]

That's easy to explain and I can give a real life example. I domed a guy from maybe 30-40m last night but couldn't get over to burn him out. I worked my way over to the boss compound and eventually got killed by the guy I downed previously. If I had been close enough and burned him out, I would have avoided losing to someone I already beat once.

[rotund obsidian]

pre-flarebuff, I would save my firebomb(s) for someone who I actually thought was a solo, or someone whose team was playing extremely passively from further away.

[hot vigil]

Honestly I think making dragonsbreath burn was a nice addition, can understand if we removed it from fuses and flares.

[subtle lichen]

Then they go back to being useless. Just like the flashlight.

[rotund obsidian]

I think flaregun was honestly pretty alright before the burning buff

[hot vigil]

Sure, but if their only usability was burning hunters then they ain't flares and fuses.
You can buff fuses and flares by extending the light time or the amount of flares and fuses you have.

And both a fine for hives and armored

[carmine kiln]

If the remove from flares has to be removed from star shell

They are the same

[hot vigil]

Honestly think flares should last longer and fuses should have 1-2 extra charges.

[carmine kiln]

I don't think removing it from either would fix anything. I think maybe changing how they interact would be a fix. But I never took either before cause I can kill ai with my knife or axe and not leave a trace where the flare makes a sound and fuses last a bit before burning out

So changing back to what it was will def make the pick rate drop back to what it was. Basically never taken

Adding in a object you can find to put out could change the way people burn as well. Kinda like a lantern

But opposite

[rotund obsidian]

It's a shame the rooftop hives got removed. Hopefully those return after the event lol. that was where the flaregun shined

[carmine kiln]

Suppressed rifle or pistol was always my option. Or even the bow. No need to waste a tool slot for that kind of thing if it has no effect on PVP

[rotund obsidian]

besides saving time on picking it up, flaregun really just loses to axes for dealing with hives/armored, but i do appreciate being annoying by firing flares into a boss lair

hey now i wouldnt say NO effect on pvp

that thing burns off like 30 hp instantly on a direct hit

I've gotten a handful of kills by blindfiring that thing into a bush then just shooting at the orange glow walking around

[hot vigil]

Issue for me is that flares/fuses shouldn't be weighted on how good they do their secondary function such as AI and burning hunters.
The core issue of flares/fuses is that they ain't really doing that much as their primary function, so I'd rather buff that.

[carmine kiln]

True but in my case never picked other than to unlock stuff in the past. I think it makes sense to have it burn down hunters but they could be reworked. Insta burning I never really did my duo and trio partners greedy so they yell when we burn before we loot. I really only burn to force a team to make a move. So that way we can finish the fight vs the other team camping till we leave the area and getting a free revive

[carmine kiln]

I am not sure how they would buff that

Other than making night maps or inside buildings really dark

Darker than they currently are

I think both could be worked to be better, I like having a tool that has more than one option of use like the axe or throwing knife. Burn a hunter or ai, or use it to block line of sight

Taking a tool with one function seems like a waste of a slot. Again though just my opinion

[hot vigil]

Durations and amount is a good start.
Changing the loot algorithm of toolboxes and dead hunters to favour med-kits and then throwables, so you don't feel like you getting a disadvantage for using a utility item :)

[rotund obsidian]

I mean, individual flares do a good enough job at obscuring vision at night, it's just that night contract is long dead so who is gonna take something where the primary use is only good at night?

[carmine kiln]

Exactly which is why I never used them before the burning feature. If they did remove the option for burning hunters from them, I think they should add a tool that allows you to burn people. Maybe something that forces you to interact with the body like looting but it sets the hunter on fire. Flint and steel an example of a possible tool 😂

[teal parcel]

Wow great idea, now the team that spawned on the other half of the map can take two bounties and leave while I am waiting for you to burn

[carmine kiln]

But I think changing that and taking away the burning hunter aspect still will hurt the pick rate and make it drop low.

[carmine kiln]

Exactly why you have a choice to make watch the burning body or go for the bounty you act like I was saying make it take half the match 😞. I said slightly decrease you think 1-2 minute change allows for a team to kill both bounties banish and extract before you are done?

Also unless it was the whole server but one team at the spawn fight they would get pushed by another team during the banish.

Playing the game is all about choice and if you choose to watch a burning body for 25 minutes that was the choice you made.

[teal parcel]

You are already dead, I've won and yo have lost, you don't need to be able to impact me this hard while dead

[carmine kiln]

Dead, death is but an illusion.

[hot vigil]

Well, if the solo reason for the pick-rate of those tools is the ability to burn hunters then the ain't good enough in general.
Fuses and Flares PRIMARY function should be to create light and what not, not burn hunters.

[carmine kiln]

Should have multiple uses

Not just one

[teal parcel]

Mfrs play against new players as a 5 star, get 3x the bounty in a so called hard mode, then proceed to complain they don't get a 2nd, 3rd, 5th chance

[hot vigil]

What else tool have multiple functions?

[carmine kiln]

You can use the throwing axe as a range or melee weapon

[teal parcel]

Skill issue

[hot vigil]

Okay there are a few, but their secondary uses doesn't trump their primary use.

Chokes also comes to mind

[carmine kiln]

And with a trait the throwing knifes can be used like a normal knife. There are many

[teal parcel]

There is no problem with burning, it was a good change, makes the game faster

[hot vigil]

That is an extra feature with a trait wall to access.
But still, they are not exceeding the primary use of the tool.

But honestly make it a trait:
Pyromania - 2 points: Fuses and Flares can now ignite dead hunters.

[carmine kiln]

That's an idea

Or make it a percent chance to set hunter on fire like meat head dropping traits or looting from a tool box

That way the main feature is still there guarantee but the second feature is a possible one that may or may not happen

[rotund obsidian]

ugh, being rng'd like that would feel absolutely horrible im sure

[carmine kiln]

Rng is always in the hands of hunt gods

[rotund obsidian]

just make it take two flares to ignite a body. Bigger gear investment to burn somebody, more thought required for burning.

alternate flare uses are unaffected, flares are less crazy value for body burning

[carmine kiln]

Could be cause I am tired but what do you mean by this

[rotund obsidian]

If it takes two to burn, you can only ignite one body before resupplying (or two bodies with frontiersman), and special ammo box only gives you enough flares for one body instead of two.

I can still burn hives and armoreds the same, but burning bodies specifically requires more thought and time.

[carmine kiln]

Ah okay.

Just wanted to make sure I understood

Would it take two fuses as well or would those still only be one? Or taken away for the fuse completely

[rotund obsidian]

same for fusee, those come in a pack of 3(+1 with frontiersman) same as flaregun ammo

There are already some people who apparently prefer fusee because you can resupply them off of bodies but that's a preference thing, i guess

[carmine kiln]

Okay just had to make sure. I think fuses are cooler with the red one where flare only has one color light.

I think in general the flare is stronger though with being refilled with special ammo and not from the body. Body's are for money or medkits/consumable

With that I am gonna head out see y'all in the bayou

[subtle lichen]

So at the moment, you only have 4 tool slots and there's quite a few options vying for those slots. If you go back to making flares and fusees a niche pick, everyone goes back to running double traps or whatever.

Having to make hard choices about what to take is a good thing because it means lots of items are viable. If everybody just takes the same items every game then there's a solid chance that some things are undertuned.

[subtle lichen]

Could not disagree more strongly with this angle. Two flares or whatever to ignite would just feel like punishment for wanting to cover your back.

[rotund obsidian]

A punishment how?

[subtle lichen]

It makes burning downed hunters more cumbersome for very little real benefit.

[rotund obsidian]

The real benefit is that burning downed hunters is more cumbersome. That's the entire point of my proposed change

A toolslot burn is already strong, but three burns for one toolslot that easily resupply? Gotta think of it compared to other burning methods. A lantern is free, but requires searching and isn't always available. A firebomb variant or beetle all take up a whole consumable slot. Dragonsbreath is dragonsbreath, and at least dragonbolts require a specific weapon and half your ammo on it

[subtle lichen]

Everyone is always complaining about solo Necro, and then everyone is complaining that burning is now easier. We can't have it both ways. I think the current situation is mostly fine tbh.

If solo Necro is to remain mostly unchanged, then burning should remain as is as well.

[rotund obsidian]

mitigating solo necro by allowing everyone to just burn every body they see for very little investment is an interesting take.

[subtle lichen]

Yes, you get three burns, but if the person you're burning stands up, it puts out the burn and they don't relight. So you can easily use all three on one person.

[rotund obsidian]

I think solo necro is more problematic now because now it affects my games that don't even have a solo in them.

[subtle lichen]

Like @teal parcel said a bit earlier, it speeds things up a bit.

If anything, tool decisions in a team are harder. If you take flares, you have to give something up. Medkit and chokes are pretty much must take items in a team. Then most likely a melee weapon, but then if you take flares you can't take traps.

[rotund obsidian]

I mean, I think a lot of players just don't run traps anyway. It's not like the trap pickrate was absurdly high before the flares became able to burn bodies.

[subtle lichen]

I run into a lot fewer traps now than I did before, but I realise that's anecdotal and possibly a result of my totally crap MMR.

[rotund obsidian]

I dunno if we're just having different experiences but I find myself getting instaburned every game, while I still only encounter traps to a somewhat limited degree.

I don't feel as if many people are replacing their traps with flareguns. What 4th tool did people run beforehand anyhow? It was knives for me, then when flaregun resupply got changed, flaregun became a permanent slot for me. I know axes were popular but i always found it weird to take a melee + throwing axes

admittedly i was sick of knives just eating all my loots/toolboxes so i wanted something to replace it with, but still.

[subtle lichen]

Throwing axes are too stamina intensive to use as a main melee weapon I reckon.

[rotund obsidian]

fair

[quick dragon]

If I play a shotgun or crossbow which I enjoy equally, I don’t feel disadvantaged by the weather I can play in buildings and I can use cover?

There is no way to clear fog or visibility to make my sniper work once im in

So yeah you’re basically saying what I said. Leave, die, disconnect, disadvantage

“Waste your real life time on earth running to an extract or leaving the match”

I’ve never left a day map on shotgun because I don’t feel it’s ever got in my way.

If I bring a shotgun no one forces me into an open field, I can for the most part choose my engagements

But as a sniper I’m forced to fight at iron sights range in fog, I can’t play around it.

The thing for me is that I like playing a bunch of loadouts, I want to play the matches I load into fairly vs the players who will be sweating just as hard as me, I hate leaving and I hate dying because I have to get closer than I should.

[teal parcel]

People just dislike snipers I guess

Also, I think ash bloom, rain and serpent moon should be just removed from regular contract

[rotund obsidian]

Rain just needs a rework, ash bloom is alright but I definitely would prefer a night contract separate from normal

[quick dragon]

How are people saying specialist specialised comes with risk

Outside of bringing a sniper and getting ash bloom, what other risks?

Does anyone here actually run shotgun and feel like “damn I have to fight at 90+ meters because it’s day time, better leave the lobby or power through”

[teal parcel]

If they do, they could use their second lodaut to bring a weapon more effective at range

[hot vigil]

Dunno, man, just think that fog and whatnot ain't as much of an issue with scopes and maybe it is just a mental barrier people needs to overcome.

[quick dragon]

Let’s assume the matchmaking has done its job and two hunters face off with someone of equal skill.

If one has a mosin sniper and the other has a regular mosin, but they are in fog range we all know it’s not just a 50/50

The same if iron sights mosin is now fighting the sniper and he’s 100 meters + away

So it’s a really tired argument to say “if you can’t play your scope in fog and win, skill issue”

That’s not a counter argument to a loadout change and you didn’t address my 4 points in the suggestion post.

Obviously you can play scopes in bad conditions and win, I have.

But the sweatier it gets the worse it feels to be fighting an uphill battle or having the alternative option to quit before you start.

Stay ignorant of that if you’d like, but it’s pretty factual in my opinion.

[quick dragon]

Hahaha okay buddy.

[hot vigil]

Well, the downside of scopes, there is a risk they ain't optimal.
Like how every other weapon choice (bar for a select few), have upsides and downsides to them.

[quick dragon]

Mental barrier to actual weapon advantages being flagged as an issue in weather types that verifiably remove those advantages (but only one way on one set of weapons)

Guess I’ll go meditate to solve my issue

[quick dragon]

Yeah I covered that point too.

Shotguns don’t leave day time

And if I die at range when I’m playing a shotgun I blame my positioning, not the weather

Fog forces positioning change for snipers

You don’t get that the other way around

I can’t somehow find a way to see better through fog mid match

[hot vigil]

And shotguns forces positioning of players too. They give up long range fights no matter the weather.

[quick dragon]

But if I’m playing “specialised risky loadouts” like a shotgun I can easily go inside

[quick dragon]

Yes but the weather isn’t forcing that, their gun is

And if you feel it is forced by your loadout then you would see that fog isn’t balanced for scopes

[hot vigil]

And scopes still works fine at closer range.
Sure bit more cumbersome, but still doable.

[quick dragon]

You can’t snipe in fog unless you have hacks

You can shotgun at day time

Not balanced

[quick dragon]

Did you read my reply to this??

[hot vigil]

You can snipe in fog, just not as far away.

[quick dragon]

That’s not sniping?

Semantics I guess

But I’m sure you know what I meant

[hot vigil]

That ain't optimal sniping

[quick dragon]

Disadvantaged sniping

Is possible

[hot vigil]

Sounds like you just wanna play very safe with no risk and downside to your playstyle.

[quick dragon]

That’s not a good reason to ignore my points

Sounds like you’re repeating yourself and not actually addressing what I’ve said

[hot vigil]

Okay, what do you want me to address?

So we on the same page

[quick dragon]

You’re comparing shotguns and snipers a specialist

But you haven’t acknowledged yet that weather only forces one playstyle into disadvantage

Also you haven’t really even agreed that playing up close with a scope is disadvantaged

We know this because like I’ve said shotgunners don’t leave daytime

And in my own experience at least if I die as a shotgunner in the open it’s because me or my team chose that fight and lost

[hot vigil]

Okay:

• Yes, fog forces you to fight in shorter of a distance, but you can still have decent distance and snipe people. Sure it ain't 200m away, but it is still possible. More so it can be argued that heavy rain and desolation maps put shotguns at disadvantage as it mask sounds, but that is kinda a double edge sword case.
• I don't have to agree that playing up close with as scope is a disadvantage if I don't think so. That said, depends on the scope and sidelines, but yes in a less than 10m shoot-out it is way harder if you lack the skill to quick-scope, which I do, so I use my back up weapon for that.
• And yes shotgunners doesn't leave to daytime, but shotguns just in general have a huge disadvantage with their lack of range.

[quick dragon]

I feel that rain is balanced so I agree with you there, I’ll snipe rain no problem because it rolls in and out

Okay but I gave the example of two equally skilled players did you see that?

[hot vigil]

Issue is that, at its core, scopes, especially sniper scopes are very one-side and safe playstyle which needs SOME risk to it.

[quick dragon]

Shotguns do have that disadvantage

And the opposite for snipers? Is that they suck up close

They are balanced at day time already

Fog only disadvantages one side

[quick dragon]

Okay that I can understand

The risk in my experience as a sniper is just not getting the bounty if you really commit to “being safe”

[hot vigil]

In general I don't like fog maps, but not bc of the hindrance of scopes.
Think it could be more engaging if it had an ebb and flow like rain.

[quick dragon]

I wouldn’t mind that as much

Because it becomes 50/50

[hot vigil]

Sure, but not getting the bounty sadly doesn't mean anything in Hunt as you don't lose money/weapons as long you extract.
So even a game with no bounty breaks even and often have a small profit of clues and in-world money.

Also on the topic of Rain/Desolation, don't know the exact ration, but would like to be slightly less of the heavy rain/dank-zone duration, like a 30:70 ratio.

So it is more a window than a condition

[quick dragon]

If you don’t feel that using scopes up close is riskier than iron sights I’m not sure who is in your lobbies

[quick dragon]

^ because if we use this example surely you don’t think they are equal?

[hot vigil]

It ain't it is riskier or not a downside, just that you can still use scopes in a way that minimize the downside of it.

[quick dragon]

My money is on iron sights if they are in iron sights optimal range

[hot vigil]

Sure, but that is the entire point of scopes haha.
That they get worse the closer you get.
That if you are in disadvantaged situtation you need to rely more on your side arm.

[quick dragon]

That’s what I’m saying yeah, so having weather make you do that or not see anything at all is a waste

[hot vigil]

But you can still use scope decently at 40-50m range which is where the fog starts.

[quick dragon]

You can, they can also use their iron sights easier at that range in fog though

[hot vigil]

Dunno man, just feel like you want all upside and no downside to scopes.
If the risk of fog or night werent a thing, every match would have an increase of scope users.

[quick dragon]

No what I want is literally to avoid one of the 4 things I laid out

[hot vigil]

Again, if you have your smarts about, you can still play a good situation about it.
Dunno what to say other than play more fog maps with scopes and you see it ain't all bad.

[quick dragon]

So again you’re straight back to denying why sniping at 50 meters works for your enemy and sucks for you

If I’m playing someone who’s aim is just as good as mine

Just let me swap to a shotgun at the start

Instead of wasting my time leaving

Or forcing my into a range I don’t want to fight at

But you think keep it as it is?

You actually wouldn’t like an option to swap your loadout at the start one time or remove your scope, etc*

[remote ore]

you know fog is an issue when half of the server meets at extraction points 3 minutes after the match started

being able to switch loadout during the first few seconds of a match start would solve this

[hot vigil]

Well, if you are a good shot, the enemy wont have a shot back at you?
Or ensure your back-up is good in cases of fog, if everyone is forced with closer engagement, you can pick a good close engagement side-arm, heck especially now we have quatermaster on basically every free hunter.

Ambush with sniping shot, if they spot you, change to side arm and take it from there.

If you get caught flat-footed and ambushed, it doesn't matter if it is sunny, foggy or night time.

[hot vigil]

Should Shotguns have the same options to change into scopes if its a sunny day?

[remote ore]

yes

why not

playing shotguns under the sun is not really an issue

but if you don't want to, you should be allowed to switch

[quick dragon]

I wouldn’t care because I wouldn’t feel affected if I find more snipers in my day match

[frigid folio]

Shotguns have the same disadvantages scopes have in bad weather just 24/7 💁‍♂️ they just adapt to force people to play to their advantages by playing in buildings and not taking long range fights. People with scopes (I run a scope at least once every session mind you) just want the advantage to be on their side without having to play well to give them said advantage. A scope in close range is crazy strong with pixel and crack peaking

My only opinion is people should have to commit to their loadout they made knowing the weather may not benefit them

[remote ore]

that's a fallacy

[quick dragon]

You’re talking around my point again.

Basically fog forces snipers into using their secondary to be effective and you’re even wording it to me, and missing that being unbalanced in comparison to shotguns who can still use them at daytime because the buildings are all still there when the sun is out

But the fog literally covers the visual ability to see someone far away

[remote ore]

shotguns are very efficient no matter what the time of the day is, as most encounters are close or mid range encounters anyway

it's not like every single encounter was at 200 meters

[hot vigil]

No I am not, you just refusing to understand that I disagree with your fundamental point that it is a bad thing that fog "forces" scopes to play into closer range.
Because I know it ain't end of the world to have a scope on a fog map and I think it is fine.

[quick dragon]

You’re actually half right

This is what I was saying earlier

If I’m on a shotgun I don’t feel disabled by day time because I can choose my positioning

But fog removes that option for snipers I can’t play optimally because I can’t see at optimal range

A shotgunner can choose to engage or disengage in favourable fights

[frigid folio]

Most encounters are only close range because people get bored and make it close range. You could just sit at medium to long range with your scope/iron sights and make a shotgun useless. So no, not a fallacy. Shotguns greatest strength is people's impatience

[teal parcel]

Adapt xddd people adapted by leaving the game sometimes people adapt by stop playing hunt showdown

[remote ore]

you missed the reports about the huge number of players just leaving fog servers

because they can't play their loadout as they are supposed to be played

no matter what

[frigid folio]

As can someone with a scope? Why does optimal range HAVE to be 200m? You can use a scope just as efficiently at 100m as 200m and just move around

[quick dragon]

It is a fallacy because you don’t get a choice to snipe far away in fog

[remote ore]

if you like to play an empty servers, okay, let's not change anything

[quick dragon]

There’s nothing to look at

[hot vigil]

As I said, that is mental barrier people needs to overcome, if Hunt punished players for leaving, you'd see a lot of people discovering it ain't all that bad.

[quick dragon]

You can’t see optimally at 100 meters in fog

If they made it like the rain I’d agree with you

[frigid folio]

Easy fix, force people to stay in the game and commit to their chosen loadout

[quick dragon]

But if you have a scope you have to be far enough away that it’s hard for iron sights? Otherwise you don’t have an advantage you are on equal footing

[remote ore]

never gonna happen; it would change the entire philosophy of the game

[quick dragon]

Ah I see, you’re one of these people

[frigid folio]

I mean to be fair in my original comment I did say the changing maps are best 😅 gives all different load outs periods of advantage

[hot vigil]

Mjah, at least not make people able to DC and actually require them to go to extract would be a good start :)

[quick dragon]

Yeah you’re right easy fix, ignore obvious stats and player behaviour and change the game in an opposite direction

[quick dragon]

I agree with you there, rain is fine

But I’d rather have a shotgun in rain than a sniper

[remote ore]

it's an objective disadvantage to play a scoped main weapon on a fog server; quickscoping is less efficient than using iron sights

[frigid folio]

Normally no, but when snipers start complaining about maps because they can't sit 200m+ away yes 😅 if they were willing to adapt and give it a shot then I'm fine with people leaving early if they lost health in a fight or something

[quick dragon]

Yes let’s waste people’s most valuable commodity time

[remote ore]

I agree that this should be fixed if this issue is still a thing

[quick dragon]

Oh my lord

I have come here because I have experience of playing snipers into fog, into rain

Like what’s your point here?

I’ve done it, a lot. Because the weather shows up a lot

[hot vigil]

So is it to run 3 nagant pistols, but that didn't stop me.
If people care playing at an objective optimal build, they play stock mosin.

[frigid folio]

My point is you weren't willing to adapt, you came here asking them to let you swap load outs?

[quick dragon]

Swapping a loadout is adapting??

[remote ore]

I don't see how this has to do anything with the discussion we're having :)

[quick dragon]

So when you say adapt you actually mean play at a disadvantage into fights of equal skill?

[hot vigil]

That ofc it is a disadvantage to play scopes into fog, but it ain't unplayable and good players can overcome that.

[frigid folio]

Yes, that's my bad for not being more specific 😅
Adapting with the load out you chose to go in with to begin knowing it might be a weather map

[quick dragon]

I didn’t say it was unplayable

Just a waste of my time

[frigid folio]

I definitely think they need to work on their map balancing though, weather is far more likely than not

[teal parcel]

The best adaptation strategy is to stop running scopes or leave maps

[frigid folio]

They need more different day time maps imo

[teal parcel]

[remote ore]

that's what I do

[frigid folio]

Balance it out so it feels more 50/50 between day and night

[quick dragon]

Okay if they balanced fog more I can adapt

But as it stands being forced into a range where your scope is useless and killing people anyway isn’t my definition of adaptation

[hot vigil]

But it ain't a waste of everyone else's time people are leaving matches they don't find to their liking?
Everyone here plays for PvP, so why is your experience more important than 11 other people's?

[quick dragon]

That’s what I’d call trash positioning and a dumb play if I saw it at day time

But turn fog on and it’s “look the sniper adapted, into a bad playstyle for his kit”

[remote ore]

why are some people against loadout switching depending on weather/wildcard condition is beyond me

it's an elegant solution to an issue

[quick dragon]

It’s not just my experience it’s a lot of people

I would stay if I had their loadout

Funnily enough when I launch into a match I actually do want to play it, not leave, disconnect or kill a level 50 hunter by pushing snipers into fog

[worthy knoll]

People hate scopes and think living with consequences is Hardcore. While Hunt gets more Casual. Which I Like to a degree.

[hot vigil]

Because it will make matches very samey.
You'd see increase of shotguns on night maps and increase of snipers on day maps.

[quick dragon]

Again if I have a shotgun at day time…

No issue

I can go where I want

Why are you guys overlooking that point so much

On a sniper I can’t do that I have to take bad positioning (in the context of sniping)

[teal parcel]

The elegant solution is to remove low visibility white noise producing maps from standart contarct

[quick dragon]

And I’m fighting the same 5-6* match to match

So instead of fixing the loadout weather issue you guys are saying just put your face into the grinder

[hot vigil]

Sure, had the same notion too once.
Then I tried to actually play scopes into fog and discovered it weren't all bad.

[quick dragon]

Okay I’m not sure who you’re fighting that they can’t capitalise on this

[frigid folio]

Nobody is over looking it 😅 you can do the same thing with a sniper on fog! You move and adapt to put yourself in an advantage, like getting a peak through a wall you wouldn't be able to get with any other gun

[hot vigil]

Dunno, just using my wits about it, know that I get one opening shot with my scoped gun and then I have to pull thru with my side-arm.

[quick dragon]

With a shotgun I can go into a lair and play at optimal range

With a sniper in fog optimal range is a greyed out mist

How is that the same guys?

[hot vigil]

Sniper, quartermaster into shotgun

Mosin Sniper + Caldwell Handcannon with slugs used to be a classic.

[frigid folio]

Optimal range of a sniper is sitting on the edge of that grey cusp where you can see in but they can't see you, or shoot back with their shotguns. You just can't sit so far away that people can't see you 😅

[quick dragon]

We’re all just repeating ourselves

This is a waste of time I’d rather play snipers into fog

Shotguns positioning isn’t determined by weather

[frigid folio]

Ayeee welcome to the dark side!

[quick dragon]

Snipers is

So let’s change it

[frigid folio]

Well the grey side 😆

[quick dragon]

If you do t agree with that then we’re done cause it’s fundamentally flawed in my perspective

And we’re gonna go in circles

[brazen wave]

The simple solution is to only ads when you’re about to shoot

[remote ore]

maybe those fog/ash wildcards forced on players is a voluntary game design decision from the developers to reduce the number of snipers since there seems to be a vocal minority complaining about them

[frigid folio]

Also just to clarify, my only issue with the suggestion was swapping load outs. If your suggestion was increase visibility to make snipers MORE viable than currently, you would of gotten an up vote from me

[quick dragon]

That would work too

[frigid folio]

I think having maps where some guns are at a disadvantage is a HUGE plus to hunt compared to other FPS games and to take that away would take from the game.

But also feel that scoped weapons in fog maps are too disadvantaged due to the map itself

[quick dragon]

Would it be so bad to know the weather before you load

Or have the options to pick

[remote ore]

I'd like to know where I spawn as well

but well xD

[frigid folio]

I just feel something like this would take away from hunts uniqueness and make it feel more like cod or battlefield where you can just swap classes.

I really like how hunt makes you commit to a load out without knowing what you're going in to, like it would be if we were the hunters. We wouldn't know if by the time we got in to the bayou if it was foggy or not. (Day/night could be the exception to knowing before hand maybe?) But definitely think they need to work on visibility on the weather maps

This is all foresight in an opinion based on my current opinions too though 💁‍♂️ when they announced the beetle I wasn't a fan but now I don't mind it 😂 could be a similar situation

[remote ore]

another solution which could be fun, would be to be able to remove or mount a scope on your rifle, but that would take a lot of time

like one minute of fiddling or something

[hot vigil]

That and also the fact that scopes are already a very safe and passive element in Hunt, so making it 100% reliable in effectiveness would be really fucking bad for the game.

Like it or not, but the fog/night/map conditions is holding back scopes, otherwise we'd see way more people run scopes if they were a safe pick.

[remote ore]

scope is safe when your enemies are far away. When they're getting close it's a death sentence

[frigid folio]

For sure! Like even if they take visibility into account on fog maps, scopes should still be at a disadvantage! Just maybe not as much as they are at the moment. Like maybe add another 30m or so of visibility?

[hot vigil]

Sure, but if you know how to play scope your enemy will rarely be close.

[remote ore]

at some point you need to take some risks

or you never get anything done in the game

[hot vigil]

Honestly only sniper scopes are severely punished on fog maps, deadeye and marksman are just fine.

[frigid folio]

Like at no point on a fog map should you be like "boy am I glad I brought a marksman over irons to this game!" But you shouldn't feel like you're forced so close that you're already swallowing a shotgun barrel

[hot vigil]

Sure, but we already have issues with people not playing the objective.
Knowing there are more scopes out there discourage that even further.

[frigid folio]

100% can very easily play around people with a MM or deadeye in fog!

It just takes more work

[hot vigil]

Eyup, that is also another tweak I've been brain storming, that maybe sniper scopes should have their magnification reduced slightly.
Rn I think it is:
Deadeye: 1.5x
Marksman: 4x
Sniper: 8x
But honestly not sure

But might be healthy to make the sniper less strong with its zoom.

Looked it up its 2x, 5x, 8x

[frigid folio]

I feel like
x1.5
x3
x6

Would be good if they were to change it to something 🤔

Or 2,4,6 in that case 😆

[hot vigil]

Yeah, still a decent zoom, just makes the polarity of sniper scopes less swingy.

[frigid folio]

Would also balance the inability to see on nights/fogs much easier than redesigning the map

[remote ore]

this was just pasted in hunt general

[hot vigil]

Ah that is some funky numbers

[hot vigil]

Guess people will complain that sniper scopes then cannot see 3 pixels at 300m

[frigid folio]

It doesn't matter what happens or doesn't happen, unfortunately can't please everyone 😅

Finding a middle ground is the best situation, like how after a lot of back and forth and circles I think we all agreed that everyone would be happier with balancing it so snipers were slightly more viable on weather maps than currently, rather than giving the option to entirely switch. None of us are 100% happy with the outcome but all parties are slightly more happier than if the other parties proposal was decided on in full xD

[hot vigil]

For sure, dunno, I personally liked Hunt more before we had scopes.
Mostly the issue is that long ammo got sniper scopes, which just really encourage people to push far out.

[frigid folio]

Sadly I never got to experience hunt before scopes 😭 I definitely think scopes on long ammo wasn't a great idea though 😅 should of been compact/medium, that way the weakness of those ammos doing less damage over distance is made up for by the scope making it easier to headshot

[hot vigil]

It was a great time, sure long ammo was strong, but you usually both parties could see each other haha

[frigid folio]

I don't know about anyone else but the thrill I get from a 150 odd meter headshot with a winnie MM is soooooo much better than a 200m+ headshot with long ammo scope

[frigid folio]

You're making me jealous now 😭😭

[hot vigil]

Doesn't even have to be 150m to feel good haha

[frigid folio]

The person saying nice needs to show more enthusiasm!! Are they not aware you just got a WALLBANG WITH COMPACT AMMO!? They make it sound like it's just another day with the winnie 😭

I'd be hyping my bois up so loud after that I'd make scrappy sound like a derringer shot from 200m away 😂

[hot vigil]

I am used for the lack of hype from my game group hahaha

"oh wow..."

[subtle lichen]

That could not have sounded less enthusiastic unless he was actually a corpse. Good god.

[hot vigil]

Luckily he is certified cool dude usually, so it was just funny this time haha

[subtle lichen]

@bold valley #game-ideas message Prodigal Daughter should come with this as standard.

[reef violet]

#game-ideas message @hot vigil I can see your though process, my only counterpoint here is that traits should be like skills the hunter themselves has learned or acquired. This would be more of an effect to the tools not the hunter themselves.

[hot vigil]

The Hunter just really know how to thrown them just right 😌
Also dunno, feel like Assailant kinda just buffs the tools themselves to deal more damage, tho they do get a custom animation ofc :)

[heavy sand]

y the hell do i get focused by rtanged mopnstyers when i am underthem and not the one moving? pls fix this trash programming its killing your game

[manic plank]

They hear you

[inner smelt]

anyone has a ping problem on EU?? i was start to 1hour ago and play as usuall 40ping around 4games now i have 150ping last 3games. my internet stable already check it. restart steam an game but nothing change yet. we are team of 3 aand 2 of us having same issue even on the looby it looks 120ping on EU

[unborn smelt]

Is your ISP Telekom by any chance ?
They have had repeated issues like that in the past.

[inner smelt]

damn, i am telekom yes but other friend is not. btw it is much better now at least i am lower then 100ping around 80 now

[unborn smelt]

Okay - maybe thats not it then. Hope it gets better for you. If the issues persist it might be worth while running a traceroute to the server

[inner smelt]

i did a lot trace before there is 4th and 15th signal always not respond

[unborn smelt]

I am with Telekom too and experience those issues myself occasionally - the traceroute i did showed it was an unresponsive node causing the ping issues

[inner smelt]

yes same here some signals are not respond

[unborn smelt]

If you happen to have a VPN try enabling it

I know that solved it for other peeps

[inner smelt]

i have no vpn never needed it actualy specialy for gaming

[unborn smelt]

Yeah i just suggested it because i know it helped some people, and is an easy fix if you already have one

[inner smelt]

actualy i dont like to say that but when there is a lot of player from asia in that game, i am having that issue. that the only thing i get focus for now

when there is EU player full loby i have no problem but then there are asian players i am having bad ping and connection issue

[unborn smelt]

Otherwise if the issues persist for more than a few days you might need to contact crytek and/or your ISP's support

[inner smelt]

i am okay with my conneciton already talked many tımes ınternet provider, i have static IP even. i just never try vpn, as i said i am playın around 40-50ping max but sometimes things changes

[unborn smelt]

Yeah i get that

For me it's also just hunt having the ping issues

[inner smelt]

when i send trace there is always unresponsible side from crytek servers. few signal between 2-4 was always unresponded

btw thank you for your kindly respond and time for sharing

[unborn smelt]

But according to the traceroute its a telekom node directly before entering leasewebs (so hunts) responsibility

At least in my case

[unborn smelt]

Then you should contact crytek Customer support

[inner smelt]

my side all signal going to out side of my gateway perfectly but not responding on other side

[unborn smelt]

I can't help any further than this, sadly

[inner smelt]

nah sorry but i dont like them, they are so late and rude, directly blame your pc specs and internet connection always, i tried before at the past, responding so late aroun 3 months :)) so its better to chat people here. again ty for your time

[unborn smelt]

Sad to hear that, then maybe a VPN could help altho i cannot guarantee nor would i want you to buy one just to try. I also know of no free ones you could try personally

Still best of luck with solving the issue.

[inner smelt]

i will check about it.

[manic plank]

@wanton imp I like the flesh pile idea, but is it possible to make it a little less horrifying to imagine?

[vital fractal]

Nah, keep it horrifying

Hunts lore is genuinely terrifying, or at least was- if the game could reflect that, that’d be nice

[manic plank]

There is a difference between horror and gory, hint needs to be horrifyingly gory but not horrifying. Maybe make it not sound so gory should do the trick

[vital fractal]

Considering Hunt’s actual in game lore, I disagree

The game needs more horror involved

The scariest thing right now is randomly getting shot 🗿

[manic plank]

The problem is that after playing a while nothing is scary anymore. I’m more scared of players than I am of the monsters. I don’t really care how it looks but I think there could be a more imaginative name than flesh pile. That really my only critique and maybe change how it looks a little bit but besides that it’s a good idea

[queen jungle]

@past socket

Everyone reporting people from other regions ping abusing on EU servers, nothing happens
Because there is no ping abuse as there is no advantage to having a high ping. It's a myth. And players are free to play on whatever region they like.

All such reports do is cause more work for customer support, thus delaying action on players who actually violate the game rules.

[unborn dagger]

@chrome sage because that's the point?

[manic plank]

I agree

[past socket]

Don't know for how long you've been playing this game, but I'm sure you're familiar with Crytek admitting that high ping, hit registration, hit validation system that Hunt Showdown has, they all relate to this being an issue, not at all a myth, I don't know if you're trying to convince yourself of the lies you're saying, or convince new people of them, instead of complaining about my constructive criticism, how about pushing for a fix ? simple fix, remove region selection, easy, auto-assign people to their lowest ping, but wait...I want to play with my friends from across the globe, you could do that with this system, if they invite you in their group....but no....better flame people that highlighting real issues

[queen jungle]

I've been playing since day one of Early Access, for over six years, so that clearly doesn't work to put my competency into question. I also resent the accusation of spreading lies or flaming you in any way.

High ping does have an impact on gameplay. But it does not provide an advantage. On the contrary, a player with a high ping will be disadvantaged since their client's information will reach the server later than a low-ping player's client's data. The myth I referred to is not that high ping does not have an impact - it's that having a high ping provides any sort of advantage.
And to give a very simple, basic example: if there were such an advantage, you'd see lots and lots of EU players on SA, AS or OC servers in a game as competitive as Hunt.

[past socket]

Due to network latency, no client will ever agree on the world state, and neither will the server. This is why we have a hit validation system in place. This system, which runs on the dedicated server, acts as a referee whenever a client shoots a target. The hit validation system always has to take a side when making a decision. Our system, like those in many other games, takes the “Favor the Shooter" approach.

So if a client claims that he has hit a shot, the hit validation system will run a number of validation strategies to confirm what the client claimed. If it is deemed legitimate, the shot will be considered a hit. --> this is from their article, called The state of hit registration in Hunt from Feb 05 2019 on their website, where you can clearly see the advantage of high ping, hit validation system will validate a hit where on your screen you're behind cover, on his screen you're in the open....combine this with the peaker's advantage which you know is real even hit scan fps games like cs and valorant, what do you get ? a mess, don't worry, I've played over 3200 hours and will continue playing, but to not admit there's an issue is too much...so many Hunt content creators, big ones, they all show you it's an issue and you still deny it ?

[queen jungle]

Any impact high ping has on gameplay affects both players. There is no one-sided advantage to having a high ping, which you still claim. If a high-ping player sees you going behind cover later than you actually are, the effect is exactly the same for you when they move/get behind cover.

Here's a good video explaining why "ping abuse" is simply a myth. It's not Hunt specifically, but the basic principle is the same: https://youtu.be/fXEmbUkDkgo?si=7amPeiR_w-IVTkr1

[teal parcel]

simple fix, remove region selection, easy, auto-assign people to their lowest
Easily subverted with vpn

[vivid totem]

what happening with the servers? the whole server died

[frigid folio]

This was actually a really interesting watch! I think the main thing for people to remember though is that unlike most fps games hunt doesn't delete bullets on death due to the different muzzle velocities between weapons/ammo types. But "ping abuse" still isn't a thing, if you got headshot while peaking you didn't spend an extra half second peaking on the high ping players screen 😅 if they were on normal ping you still would of spent the exact same time visible and been in the exact same spot and got headshot. The only difference is it takes a half second (sometimes less) for the information to catch up to EVERYONES screen.

At least that's how I've always viewed it 💁‍♂️

@lucid mauve the bounty team has to wait at extract for the timer for 30 seconds, I think that's punishment enough while being chased? The chasing team just needs to get inside the extract zone too to block it. You can cross a fair distance in 30 seconds so I feel if they are able to extract and the chasing team not able to block the extract that's on the chasing team for not paying enough attention to what they were hunting down. Shouldn't penalise the team who did everything right 😅

[lucid mauve]

but thats the point. 30 secinds aint alot, since unles as stated you are looking at the map the entire time so you can see them the moment they run, you have no way of catching up. and again 30 secs in cover and concealment, stil not alot cause you need to get within 50-75 meters on most extractions to actually be able to see the wagon/boat or sorroundings. ass long as they stay down, and are not spotted running the second they do it's a no point chasing, even with stims and all you cant "catch up" you only Keep up...
30 secs is also not alot cause yeah you can block them, but if you are allready that close. you could have shot at them in most "non fog/covered" maps while running behind them, again asuming you spot the the very second they leave the compound.

[reef violet]

I agree with this

[weary fox]

You can cover around a compound's worth of distance within 30 seconds from my experience. And you don't need a person to physically enter the extraction zone, you can also down a Hunter to stop extraction. And typically you can catch up if you run traits like Greyhound/Determination combo or open a lootbox and get a weak stamina shot. If you're having issues catching the bounty team then you can attribute it to either fighting with another team far away from bounty (you can't really do much unless you back out of the fight) or you are fighting the bounty team and they see an opening to take a gamble which paid off for them.

[reef violet]

I disagree with this XD. Several times I have had to engage in a cross map run even when we had people on the team eyeballing the map. It is very difficult to push the extracts and the radius lead you to basically WWI into the enemy team. Now if this is a gameplay loop crytek wants to encourage then so be it. I think it’s dookie though. There should be no reason (save some external factors) that two teams starting in the same compound. The team running should be able to outrun and extract a team who stated running after them almost immediately.

[weary fox]

Or you can down a person which all things considered, shouldn't be too difficult if you still have bombs available. If the extracting team manages to outrun the chaser, it could be just from them taking a more optimal route to the extracts or them having stims or traits that boost their running. You shouldn't punish the team who are already putting quite a lot at risk to potentially end the game in a win for them.

You're only able to outrun a chasing team when they're not paying attention from my experience in Hunt. They need to be around a compound's worth of distance to outrun you and extract safely. And I know the map's bounty isn't always accurate but it's still the best way to gauge whether the bounties are running or staying. If you're missing all the cues of a team ready to marathon to an extract and you're one of the teams fighting them, it's ultimately on you for not paying attention to the main objective in the game, not the bounty team out running you.

[lucid mauve]

well thats not really adressing the potential issue, that is just stating situations where the issues is not the case. no offense 🙂
again downing a oersin in the extraction requires being able to see and then shoot them, or getting close enough to throw something in at which point even with pitcher you are close enough to also shoot or get shot by them. when means you were realatively close all the way chasing them...

and yes you can split a 3 man team up sitting on all 3 sides of an compound, but the you get get them charging you and its a 3v2 if not they make a turn for one of the others before you can regroup...

the main issues is if you dont see them running the moment they do, you can't really catch up, the best you can do is keep an even pace.
and if the use cover at the extraction. there is alot of it, so you could try just shooting at random crates cause you cant really penetrate the dirt mounds or the boat... so again unles the is less, NOT NONE just less cover in the area there is no point in chasing them. in My opinion of course 🙂

[reef violet]

Yea it just feels bad sometimes at least for me this is not a huge issue that needs to be addressed asap

[weary fox]

Assuming you are in fact the last team with bounties, you should at least employ one guy to constantly keep note of where the bounties are.

As for the 3v2 scenario, if they're charging your buddies then your 2 buddies should back up first and lose ground, this could allow the last man to quickly rotate and sandwich the bounties since they're now outside of their safe zone.

As for the last point, like I said, you still need around a compound's worth of distance which could take ~20 secs. I personally regularly check both Darksight and map to see whether the bounties are running, if not me then one of my buddies does this.

[weary fox]

I love cheaters in Asia servers ngl, very fun to play against

[lucid mauve]

so do me and my mates, but when they are shooting at you, "we at least" tend to cover up and look for them inthe windows, and darksight, well they are at least in that direction, oh wait, they are halfway out the other end of the compound 😦 gg not catching them

[weary fox]

Like I said, I personally developed a habit of constantly checking Darksight. I do this mainly to get a good idea of where the bounties are in the building. Me and my buddies also tend to split up once we're certain we are the last team with them or are confident we can stand our ground against an external team while retreating back to another guy. We also move around a lot so we're more of creating a ring around the bounty compound.

Of course, the bounties can just sneak out like little rats and run away with their tails tucked between their legs, and if they manage to get away then I would go and review what we could've done better in our failed attempt to imprison the bounty. This is all my experience and opinion of course.

[lucid mauve]

and there it is, they can thug their tail and run, and you cant actually do anything about it, which is my main concern, also why maybe a 2-3% speed reduction while sprinting would allow you to catch up without actually forcing the bounty runners to stand and fight, but give you the time you might need to actually clear the trash bushes and all that, which is cropped up at the extraction, otherwise remove a bit of the trees, hills on the are around the extraction, leave the crates and what not, but get the extraction out of those holes that a fair few of them are in.

it's our common experience "me and the guys" that when we actually reach line of sight to the extraction they have been sitting tight for all the 30 seconds, and we still need 5-7 more to reach it "block wise"
but it's just too covered up or hidden in the environment 🙂

[frozen crater]

It is so unbelievably frustrating to not have any method of communication with randoms after getting downed

how this game has been without private comms for this long astounds me

[rotund obsidian]

It has been confirmed though, at least.

[frozen crater]

after 5.5 years, yes

[hot vigil]

Hey, just wanna add one important aspect of this whole ping thing, is that Hunt has the unique situation that it confirm the HitReg of the Client-side and not Server-Side, which much videos/discussions online is based on, like in this video :)
Due to it being Client-side, means that trading is way more common if you have a high-ping.

[rotund obsidian]

If someone on high ping peeks me, I get the server info that they're peeking, say, 150ms ( due to their ping) + 30ms(my ping) later than on their screen, I duck behind cover as soon as I see him, but they don't receive the info that i've started ducking behind cover for another 30ms+150ms after i've done it. If we were both at lower ping, I would have been visible on their screen for less total time.
In this one specific scenario, high ping had an advantageous effect. Does that mean it's being abused for an advantage? no. This whole "its just delayed" only applies if we aren't actively reacting to each other constantly. Yeah they're disadvantaged in the opposite scenario because I get more time to peek them before they see me, and I get more time before their reaction goes through to my screen.

Ultimately, high ping feels bad to play against, and I think also bad to play with. Some people disagree and regionhop anyway, which is why people want some preventative action taken.

I don't personally encounter terribly high ping often, at least not in a noticeable way, but it's especially noticeable with trades when there's a log of hits in order lol

[hot vigil]

Yeah, so the reason why trade is more common with high ping is due to client-side hitreg, but a me and my enemy can look at each other at the same time, I can have faster reaction speed and headshot him, but because he also got to shot before the server send my information to him, he will also get to shoot his shot and trade with me.
Like this (in worse case):
Me ---30ms---> Server ---225ms---> Them.
If they shoot before those 255ms have passed (even slightly more bc servers also take processing time), they will get a valid trade.

If it was server-side hitreg, they wouldn't trade with me bc the server would say they were dead as soon my 30ms information was received to the server.

[rotund obsidian]

yeah i mean some games do at least some of the hitreg clientside but then have to confirm it with the server, which will deny it if you were already dead. I don't think it'd be a ridiculous task to just deny shots that were FIRED after the server received the death.

i know a fully serverside hitreg can feel horrible, especially with projectiles, but like cmon they have the functionality to reject shots why is it so lenient

[crystal plume]

We had that in the past

Lead to a lot of "hitreg issue" complaints where they were already dead server side

And shots do still get invalidated, mainly when the person shooting has high ping

[queen jungle]

The server does invalidate shots fired after death. But bullets that were fired before keep travelling, as they would in real life and such a bullet can still kill somebody.

[rotund obsidian]

I flat out do not believe that (serverside) death is the invalidation condition. 10ms of travel time is not a reasonable explanation for this shit bruh #feedback-discussion message

[hot vigil]

They get invalidated after a 800ms duration, that is literally what the trade window is.
That is why trading in close range went up after the change.

Not to oppose you claim @rotund obsidian on the contrary to point out that saying "shoots do still get invalidated" ain't really a counter argument bc most people are aware of that, they are just not okay with the leniency of the game's code and benefit of high ping makes trading so prevalent.

[queen jungle]

That's exactly the same time 🤔

[remote ore]

aren't a good percentage of "hitreg issues" reports related to the fact that people don't know how to lead shots?

[rotund obsidian]

cycle time for two shots?

I suppose i should clarify that it's the same player that hit me both times from 2 meters away

[late quartz]

To be super clear... Hunt does not use client side hit validation or "hitreg".

https://www.huntshowdown.com/news/the-state-of-hit-registration-in-hunt

Hunt uses client side prediction, all online shooters do

You can't have all your inputs confirmed by the server in real time it just doesn't make a crisp playable game

If your shot isn't possible based on the server's interpretation of events (the "truest" interpretation) it'll get rejected.

[wind stream]

its client side hit registration and server side validation

as Pyrrhic said, which is pretty much the standard for online shooters nowadays

[rotund obsidian]

yeah if it were fully serverside it would feel like shit

not really the same situation but i was playing ror2 and that game has fully serverside (hosted by a player) projectiles so it feels like shit if ur a client. fireballs/rockets or whatever will look like they connect and explode but server says they just went right past for 0 damage.

[queen jungle]

I see

[late quartz]

As far as I'm aware there's no actual distinction between the terms "hit registration" and "hit validation" and both just refer to whether or not a shot is considered valid

I could be wrong but I've never seen any actual distinction made on the end of developers and they're used interchangeably

Pretty sure "hitreg" is just more of a colloquial gamer term and is used less often in-industry

COULD BE WRONG THO

[wind stream]

There is a distinction. In the case of hunt your client reports a hit without questioning its validity. That is the registration part. That info gets sent to the server and the server checks if that shot was valid (for example if you were still alive when firing, taking the other players info into account). That is the hit validation

[late quartz]

I understand the distinction you're drawing but I don't think that distinction actually exists in the way the terms are used broadly

"Did I shoot you on my client" isn't a netcode issue, that's like... do the hitboxes even work

When people say "hitreg" or "hit validation" they're exclusively talking about netcode and how the server and client interact with eachother

"Can my game client even detect hits" is totally outside the scope of this issue

[rotund obsidian]

I see 'hitreg' as more of just an umbrella for how the entire system works, whether it's a client issue or serverside

[late quartz]

Yeah pretty much. As I say it's more of a colloquial gamer term

Where as on the actual engineering end people tend to use "hit validation" more because haha funny technical jargon

[wind stream]

I agree, that hitreg is commonly used as the term for the entire package

[rotund obsidian]

but yeah like trades be crazy thats all im sayin

[wind stream]

what is your own ping usually?

[rotund obsidian]

I wanna say sub 30

might be overestimating that slightly though

[wind stream]

the 2 factors that impact trades at most are usually your own ping and the muzzle velocity of the weapons

[rotund obsidian]

I mean, if my own ping matters, my opponent's ping must matter too, surely

[wind stream]

bullets are really slow in hunt compared to most other shooters

[wind stream]

not really, since what matters is how much time it takes your info to reach

if youre faster than the opponent that is benficial for you when it comes to trades

[rotund obsidian]

? How does my ping specifically affect trades, but in my opponent's situation, their own ping doesn't?

also

[rotund obsidian]

i'd like that to be the case but i'll still get really obnoxious shotgun deaths when my enemy is already falling over even at like 25 ping

[wind stream]

you have to imagine that the game runs at 3 separate times parallel
You see stuff on your screen
so does the opponent
the server sees both, but delayed

when you shoot someone and they shoot you both of you send the info to the server
when your info arrives before the opponents info does
your shot will be validated and theirs will only be validated if the server calculates that they fired before you already killed them, taking ping into account

that means a high ping will lead to a late death for you, but what in reality happened was that he killed you fairly during the firefight (so without an advantage). It just takes longer fo you to get that info

the alternative to this system is that their shot gets invalidated, because of their ping, even though they would have killed you fairly, which is what we used to have and which led to a lot of disappearing shots

[late quartz]

Hunt definitely has A LOT more trades than other games, especially in close range fights. The chances of two people firing at eachother and those two separate player inputs being reconciled to happen on the same server tick are not that high

The window for trades is definitely abnormally high and it's not just "you shot eachother at the same time"

[rotund obsidian]

theirs will only be validated if the server calculates that they fired before you already killed them
and this is where we have different understandings of the game because this is absolutely not my interpretation. Sure they shot me on their own screen, but their client could be running 200ms behind the actual server, and that gives them extra leeway to click on me. Shots should disappear, quite frankly.

[wind stream]

the issue here is that the clients can perceive a delay, but if you could see the server view everything would be one smooth fight

[wind stream]

The time frame for a shot doesnt change with a high ping only when it registers, if you run across a window for 500ms seconds and you get shot by a player with a ping of 1 you get hit after 2 ms. If that player has a ping of 600, you run across the window, the enemy sees you for 500ms, but 600 ms after you ran across, lands the shot and now additional 600ms after that you get the hit. That does not make the shot easier or more difficult for the enemy since he had a 500ms frame to hit you in both situations. it just delays the result for you.

[remote ore]

I wonder if the absence of region locks possibly increases the size of the trade windows due to higher pings

[wind stream]

there is a ping limit, which is effectively is a region lock

[remote ore]

yes but it's quite large

[late quartz]

Being 200ms behind the server doesn't mean you have 200ms extra worth of time to shoot people. If you have 200ms of ping and you shoot somebody when you're already dead according to the server it'll get your clients information after it already made that determination and reject your shot.

[remote ore]

as an european I think the only server that is not accessible to me is Asia or something

[rotund obsidian]

I have seen zero examples of the server rejecting a shot like that at anywhere around 200-300 ping.

[late quartz]

How would you even know ._.

[rotund obsidian]

I know it's anecdotal but like, zero clips that aren't from like, year 1 hunt

[late quartz]

How many videos of people running around at 200+ ping complaining about hitreg do we see

I don't feel like I see that often in any game because lol you're playing at 200 ping

I see people with ping SPIKES complaining in a lot of games but generally when somebody has consistently bad ping they're not like... on the game's ass about lag cause they know what's up

[rotund obsidian]

I have seen clips where people shoot just a few frames before they die on their own screen, then see a hitmarker as they're falling, hang on

[wind stream]

that sounds like its in the realm of muzzle velocity

[late quartz]

Yeah I mean find the clip cause there are totally valid ways that could happen and also very fishy ways it kinda doesn't make sense to speculate

[wind stream]

and I will add, that there are valid examples of hitreg not working. That will sometimes happen. Just not as often as people like to claim

[late quartz]

It'll never be perfect but the main narrative here is that high ping is more advantageous than disadvantageous

That's sort of the Hunt Showdown community belief

Which is a lot more specific than "hitreg broken sometimes"

[rotund obsidian]

I disagree with that for the most part, but it is terrible and (i believe) it causes trades, which is shitty. I found a specific instance though, from that rachtaz video where he played in SA lol https://youtu.be/A5QCHPB3RFo?si=apEEtVGK8Nign4I0&t=480

10 frames after the shot (in 60fps), he is dead on his own screen

the kill at 8:06

That would be around 166 milliseconds, which is less than his ping. The server would have received his death at least 224ms earlier. 20 meters, so about 49 milliseconds of travel time with the uppercut velocity (velocity doesnt factor in here). He fired after his serverside death and it was accepted

oh yeah lol it is exactly 20 meters according to the death screen idk why i estimated that

[late quartz]

This definitely isn't an MV issue

[rotund obsidian]

not that mv would have even mattered in that case anyway since it's from his own pov

same thing happens at 1:01 actually, but this one is 12 frames after shot that he's dead

[teal parcel]

Mv issue is when you die after hiding behind a rock

[rotund obsidian]

shot 200ms before he was dead on his own screen with 223 ping, so that one he shot after serverside death as well

[late quartz]

Here's I guess the question

Because I'm totally with you on these examples these shots should be rejected

Rough math on the first situation, granted the numbers are not ideal because this is a 60fps video and we're working in frames rather than like actual time so things are going to be a little wonky

Assuming he actually had 230 ping, working backwards from that assumption the time between the server deciding he was dead and him firing at the other player was ~83ms

Now, as I said earlier, there is definitely some artificial extension to the window in which shots are accepted because the chances of getting two players to shoot eachother "at the same time" from the server's perspective is pretty fucking uncommon. We see way more trades than we should if the margin for error was that low.

What this suggests is that the trade window is at least 83~ms, not necessarily that there's infinite leeway to players with high ping. the question is would we see the same behavior at 1000 or 3000 or 5000 ping

[rotund obsidian]

There is a hardcap of 800ms

[late quartz]

HOWEVER since the practical ping limit for connection to a server is 230... it doesn't actually have that much practical impact whether we'd see the same results at 1000 ping. If the window is 80ms it's probably too big lol

[late quartz]

Sure I mean 799 ping would probably illustrate the issue too

The question here is whether the server rejects any hits at all after a player is considered dead. You're saying you don't see any evidence of it and based on this video you sent it's sort of fair to end up where you are, even though it doesn't prove that the server doesn't technically reject posthumous shots it does illustrate that the window in which shots continue to be accepted is probably too high

I'd certainly agree that a 83ms trade window is too fucking high LMAO

[rotund obsidian]

I've heard complaints about lagswitching to really make the gap horrible but nothing substantiated so I don't really consider it

but yeah its just odd to me that there is a window at all. I know a number of other shooters will just outright invalidate shots, like csgo or r6siege (although in siege you can still trade if its frame perfect with hitscan)

I can't recall if trading is even possible in csgo but I know it eats shots

[signal mural]

@quick dragon Honestly when it comes to weather FOV suggestions concerning loadouts I just tend to stay out of voting but I'm generally against them. My logic is no loadout is ideal for every circumstance and asking for predictable weather, a second back-up loud-out (Probably the reasonable suggestion IMO), or distinct queues is just asking for an advantage.

People choosing to run scopes above deadeye complaining about FOV in weather conditions and heading to extraction is about as silly as shotgunners doing the same every time a clear sky or high-visibility low- environmental noise map shows up.

Balance your loadout! Take a decent alternative. Shotgunners often take Uppercuts and other long-range firearms as back-ups to still play when faced with high-visibility environments and long distances.

Here are some basic possibilities to run with a scope-based loadout that still work in low-visibility:

Winnie Marksman with levering as a back-up skill.

Quartermaster + any med. choice to fit a playstyle (Romero hatchet with slugs, deadeye vandal, bow, dualies, precision pistols)

Single handed:
Chain pistol and fanning.
Double-action revolvers with special ammo.
Uppercut, PAX Trueshot, Uppermat.

The game isn't meant to be a fair playing field. It's a bit too realistic for that... In my opinion it's about identifying your advantages and playing to them. If you bottleneck your loadout then that's a player-side problem.

[rotund obsidian]

just drop the scope and take the aperture pill if you wanna snipe

[late quartz]

Ultimately the problem is that people will just not play the match. Nobody benefits from having people quit in the loading period or run to extract right away

This isn't a game balance problem it's player behavior one

There's not really any balance problem with letting players swap to a second loadout, trying to force players to "deal with the consequences of their choices" in this instance is just kind of petty and vindictive when it hurts literally everybody lul

[signal mural]

Honestly if people can be bothered to make a well-rounded load out then that's on them. Crytek has already combined traits, made high quality world weapon spawns more likely, added random chances of special ammo swaps, and made recruits more viable than ever.... these all make it easier than ever before.

[late quartz]

I agree that people who leave games because they don't like the weather are whiney babies

But like

It makes the game worse to encourage the whiney baby brigade to dodge matches

I care more about the game being good than punishing people for being pathetic losers LOL

[rotund obsidian]

I dunno how well rounded a sniper scope can be. No matter what else you bring, you're still basically down a primary

I'd say get better at using a scope close range but it is definitely uncomfortable and worse than irons in something like fog or heavy rain

[signal mural]

Unless you take Cent. Sniper with levering.

You can still hip fire any gun. Or choose a better secondary.

[late quartz]

You're still just making due with a broken loadout, even if you bring a viable well rounded secondary you're paying insane opportunity cost by just having your primary weapon taken out of its element

[signal mural]

It's also uncomfortable to have a shotgun in an open field. Or have iron sights vs a sniper at 150+ range... my primary is then at a disadvantage.

[late quartz]

The analogy fails there because controlling your engagements is a big part of playing shotguns, you can move in closer you can choose not to take fights you can create situations that favor you.

When you're on a night/fog map your ability to alter the situation to favor your loadout is comparatively very very limited

it makes people feel hopeless

AND AGAIN I fucking despise scopes and I love the idea of making people who use them unhappy

It's just not worth it because it means they will dodge the match

[rotund obsidian]

imagine running shotguns but the weather condition makes bullets only deal damage after flying for 40 meters

[late quartz]

The alt-loadout idea still has an element of commitment and sacrifice because you have to pick it in advance. You're not going to be able to create one loadout that favors all situations, you still can't do it with two loadouts. It'll just mean players don't feel completely unwilling to participate in the game.

[rotund obsidian]

I hate snipers too but I'd rather fight them after they loadout swap in the fog, instead of just having an emptier lobby

[hot vigil]

It is a dedicated server yes, but the hit-reg is still client side validated.
So your shot is "true" despite being dead on the lower latency players screen.

[signal mural]

The problem with the alt-loadout is that most Hunters don't take Scope Smith & Iron Eye. Therefore their back-up primary would probably be a single shot iron sights weapon or a deadeye version of whatever clip based rifle. I think though most people would either not utilize it or complain about the traits more then. Maybe it'd be more clear if you could pick two Hunters in your roster and then when loading into the game world select which one of the two to actually play.

[unborn smelt]

I don't think thats what that sentence says...

[late quartz]

You're totally misinterpreting what this is saying.

The game doesn't wait for the server to confirm everything before simulating it, that would feel horrible.
This passage doesn't say "hitreg is client sided"

The passage I provided DIRECTLY STATES that hit validation is done on the servers end

[unborn smelt]

Just because it updates the server doesn't mean the server doesn't doublecheck

In about half an hour i can find the relevant info

Lemme see of i can find it on phone

[late quartz]

Like idk how much more explicit it can be

This is why we have a hit validation system in place. This system, which runs on the dedicated server, acts as a referee whenever a client shoots a target.

[unborn smelt]

This system takes the “favor the shooter" approach, meaning that a shot is considered valid as long as it is deemed legitimate according to the server's game state history,

Also this

From the same source

[hot vigil]

Yes, but the game does still validate two players shots equally EVEN when one is playing with high ping.
Basically if two players spot each others, you reacting faster, they can still get a shot off before they die, hence the increase in trade with high ping players.
Your shot --- 30ms ---> Server ---150ms---> High Ping Player
It sends the information to the other player they are over the span of 200ms (or more bc servers), the lower the ping everyone have the close we get to "true" game states.

[late quartz]

I mean that's a totally separate claim

[hot vigil]

If the validation of the hitreg was on the server the player wouldn't be able to return fire unless they are firing back within the same 30ms (+/- bullet travel time).

Bc the server have now stored that the player was dead.

[unborn smelt]

Yeah, ladt ifo from the devs i got was thats the situatuion we have

[rotund obsidian]

it still happens on the server, they just don't care that the player was dead and accept the shot anyway

[late quartz]

We were getting into that a little bit ago and the conclusion I sort of landed at was that there's not really any direct evidence that what you're saying is true, HOWEVER obviously trades happen far more frequently than they should and so the level of lenience the hit validation system gives may be too high regardless

I totally agree that trades happen too often

[unborn smelt]

Disregarding system or server delay and stuff like packetloss

[late quartz]

But it's not because there's client side hitreg and there's no evidence it's because the server considers players of all latency levels equally

[rotund obsidian]

client says "I shot him" and server just checks it and goes "yup looks good" even when a mf is already dead

[late quartz]

I would guess the mythical "trade window" whether it exists explicitly or as a result of several other systemic choices, is simply large enough to create situations that feel unfair

Not the the game makes no effort to reject hits from dead players, but the leniency is too high

[late quartz]

Yes all games do that

Your game simulates what it thinks is going to happen on the server and then makes corrections if necessary because the server goes "no wait that's not right"

[hot vigil]

Listen I'm not saying Crytek is bad for using this system, is a fine and well system, but high ping impacts that system in a certain way.

[late quartz]

Otherwise everything would have a delay

They're describing generic shooter netcode none of this is like unique to hunt

Again, totally agree, trades happen too much

but it's not because Crytek is using some wacky proprietary meme netcode

[hot vigil]

No but still it happens because they use that system and allow for high ping (and a large trade window base).

And dunno, I've never really seen as much trade in shooters as Hunt.
There are multiple reasons for that, but still, that is a plain fact of my experience.

[signal mural]

@sonic belfry 225 is the Ping limit?! I agree that's way too high. Above 100 becomes questionable... above 130 I'd already say unplayable. I think if it was 140 that'd sort a lot of serious accusations of lag benefits while still leaving open a space for lag spikes not to kick players, or people who have no nearby server.

[rotund obsidian]

225 ping limit isn't even where it kicks you, just need to be below that to start matchmaking iirc

I've no idea what the kick limit is

[hot vigil]

And here it says, the bigger latency, a.i. ping, the bigger the wiggle room you get for validation.

[late quartz]

Yeah that's totally valid. I think that leniency is too high and makes the game feel bad

The issue I have is that we don't really know if the "trade window" is like a thing they specifically put in there or a confluence of other decisions like this one you posted here.

Like, ultimately, the "trade window" is the only real problem I can get behind. Trades suck and they happen all the time in hunt, and whatever causes it should be changed and tightened up

HOWEVER once we get into like

Oh man region lock china because playing with high ping is always an advantage

You start to lose me LOL

[hot vigil]

Well, so the thing is high ping doesn't give an advantage, just makes everyone lose.
Low pings will experincing dying (trading) with hunters there is already mid-death animation and high ping players will die around corners.

Only """advantage""" high ping players gets is if they play aggressive and push and that """advantage""" is that they are more likely to trade if the enemy hunter gets them first.

[late quartz]

That's an exceedingly reasonable take yeah

I'd probably get behind that entirely

[hot vigil]

Also region locks is total overkill, I'd say lower ping limit to 100ms and still allow for the standard, play with friends on the closest shared server as usual.

And I say 100ms, bc I am negotiator and sets it low

:p

[late quartz]

This is pretty boring nitty gritty stuff but imo 100 is way too low

Like, people from WUS should probably be able to play with players in europe

[hot vigil]

Yeah, think 150ms would be bare minimum, but 125ms would be the most realistic if you really wanna press as low as possible.

[hot vigil]

Well, always been the rule of "you can always queue up with friends no matter where they are"

[late quartz]

I don't think it's unreasonable to have somebody queue into a match with ~150 ping personally

I think 99% of the time they're only making their own experience worse

[teal parcel]

Just spend 30 minutes listening to white noise while straining your eyes, don't be a baby, this is a serious videogame for adults

[unborn smelt]

No it doesn't say that at all

What that says is if your info takes 400ms to arrive at the server, you're overwriting the last 400 ms of the server history (which is a necessity otherwise validation would not work at all). And the hardlimit is set at 800ms.

Thats not "more wiggle room for validation"

The wiggle room for validation is always either 800ms max or the time it took your info to arrive at the server - whichever of the two is the shorter time period

[late quartz]

It sort of does mean you have more wiggle room.

Say you take a shot with 799 ping, if the server says "all the math checks out, that shot would have hit" your "wiggle room" is effectively larger than if you had y'know 50 ping.

That doesn't mean having 799 ping is an advantage, just that your ability to look into the past and go "would this have counted" is a sliding scale based on your ping with a hard limit

[unborn smelt]

Thats not wiggle room tho...

The server verifies based on it's own and the client's state

[late quartz]

You like the fancy Rogue 9 video, I like that video too

[unborn smelt]

It only allows a rewrite after all validation was successful

[late quartz]

This "wiggle room" is what is referred to in that video as the "window of opportunity"

[late quartz]

Right but the point is that it allows rewrites based on your ping

[unborn smelt]

Yeah but thats smaller with high ping tho

Because the window pf opportunity is the time it took your opponent from their peek to them killing you - your own ping

So lets assume your enemy takes 400ms from peeking to killing you.

[late quartz]

I'll save you the trouble, I understand, you don't need to explain

I have a rebuttle

[late quartz]

That's the thing though, it's actually a little unclear. Crytek hasn't actually said that and the evidence for it is sort of lacking.

The reason why in that video, referring to R6's netcode, having a higher ping reduces your window of opportunity is because the server wont rewrite player deaths and reject hits thereafter.

When a R6 server registers that a player is dead, it no longer accepts shots from that player, meaning their shots have to arrive BEFORE the server registers that they're dead, thus the ping is subtracted from their window

It doesn't seem like Hunt Showdown works the same way, it does in fact seem like the server continues to accept shots from players who it has validated as being already dead

For at least some period of time

[unborn smelt]

The server sends the info of the peek to you, which with a ping of 50ms takes 25 ms, then you need tobplace a killshot yourself and get that info to the server too, whoch again takes half your ping - so 25ms.

So your window of opportunity is 400 - (2x25) =350ms

[unborn smelt]

Last info i got was hunt also invalidates shots after player death

Just not shots that were created serverside before death

[late quartz]

I haven't seen that stated anywhere in any of the available blog posts etc. and it doesn't seem to be true in practice

[unborn smelt]

I asked a CM directly when i was a contrib still

Altho that's admittedly a while back

[late quartz]

I don't know if I really trust a CM's ability to accurately represent the nuances of the game's netcode

But I'd like to see it anyway

[unborn smelt]

But yes thats smth only crytek can answer definitively

[late quartz]

For sure

I wish they would

[late quartz]

We were talking about this earlier in chat, this video was provided as an example of fishy trade window nonsense.

[late quartz]

This is my response

tl;dr is that the player on high ping fired their weapon ~80ms after they should have been dead on the server yet hadn't received the fact that they died yet

Despite the fact that they fired at the other player during what should have been when their window of opportunity was closed, the shot was still validated and they traded

We wouldn't expect that behavior if the game were using the same netcode seen in the R9 video

The player shoots 9 frames or ~149 ms before dying, their ping is 230 which means they're most definitely already dead by the time they shot the other player

If your ping is greater than your window of opportunity it shouldn't be possible to get a kill period even if you had literally instantaneous reaction time

[unborn smelt]

One thing people like to forget or ignore is potential issues with system or server latency and that hunt has a projectile based system, where even low ranges can add quite a few ms in traveltime

[late quartz]

MV has nothing to do with this situation

It literally could not impact this the math doesn't work out

The gap between him shooting and him dying makes it literally impossible for his shot to be validate before he is already dead on the server

[unborn smelt]

Like 2 shotguns at 10m can potentially have a natural trade window of 50 ms + potential other onaccuracies like spikes in the connection, systwm delay or server delay

[late quartz]

Well we kinda have to work with the evidence we have tho right and just saying "hitreg is broken" is equally as silly if we're doing it on this side vs all the people whining that they missed their shot

Hitreg isn't perfect but it's not just perpetually broken

The game works pretty good for the most part

[unborn smelt]

The issue for me is i have asked the devs a good while back

[late quartz]

Well, if what you said is true you didn't ask "the devs" you asked somebody who's job is social media

Not an engineer

[unborn smelt]

And back then was told they made sure high ping is no advantage - and the reason for the increase in trades was the fixing of wrongful invalidations

[late quartz]

Sure, but that doesn't contradict what I'm saying right now. This isn't a "high ping advantage"

This just means that the server wont reject shots from dead players all the time, probably by virtue of this "trade window"

[unborn smelt]

Yeah but they can obviously ask the engineers

[late quartz]

They could

The level of confidence we can have in a discord CM vs a proof written blogpost is quite different

[unborn smelt]

And as a contrib my only point of contact to devs was CM's for the most part

So thats the only one o could ask

[late quartz]

Yeah but it's not sufficient even if it's the best you have

Saying "ping isn't an advantage" is probably true and I probably agree with it

But that's not the same as "dead players hits are never validated" and we seem to have evidence that this is y'know... not the case

Probably because there is a purposefully engineered trade window

I'm not arguing that ping is an advantage, I firmly believe it is not

[unborn smelt]

I mean if there's actual evidence then yeah ot's a valid concern ofc

Just nothin i can check atm

[late quartz]

Well, sure, the video that was linked earlier seems like decent enough evidence to explore the claim

I was making literally the same argument you were making before somebody linked that, that we had no evidence that the game didn't reject dead players' shots

I assumed that's how it worked because that's how it probably should work

that's how it works in most games

BUT somebody provided evidence and I did the math and even with somewhat fuzzy numbers on a 60fps video the math literally does not work out in a way where it's possible that the player could have shot before the window of opportunity closed due to their ping

And thus I have to change my perspective that yeah the game probably doesn't reject all hits from dead players and has some system in place that gives them an undue level of lenience

I'M NOT NECESSARILY SAYING I HAVE A BETTER HANDLE ON HOW IT WORKS, I totally agreed with you 2 hours ago. Right now I think there's actually a good case to be made that we should reassess our assumptions because they don't seem to reflect the outcomes.

Ubisoft did their due diligence and put out a detailed blogpost explaining this exact issue for their game, and in all my years of playing Siege and all my years of explaining it to other people and having them try to make rebuttals with videos only reinforced to me that Ubisoft was correct about how their game worked.

It seems like Hunt works a little differently specifically in how it chooses to validate or reject the shots of dead players, causing large trade windows. As far as I have seen Crytek hasn't released anything that outright refutes this.

[signal mural]

Oh I didn't see the Xenophobic critique in that Feedback earlier about ping. Yeah, no... peoples' supposed name or region deemed via Steam or wherever doesn't say anything about their ping... Some people have better connections than others and it's not always region dependent but ISP or Internet speed that's a determining factor. As soon as you start generalizing it into massive groups of people based on their region, ethnicity, or county... then yes it starts edging into the Xenophobic territory. Maybe rather than jumping to conclusions based on where you all think someone's playing from and asking for stricter ping limitations & region-locking - you request an 'avg. Ping' stat near every engaged opponent on the match wrap up.

Regardless the easy way to formulate a critique is to not suggest any influx of people from X country into X region... because it's a loaded formulation and regardless if you mean it that way or not, Xenophobic players will feel vindicated in their prejudices and rally to support your claim. Keep it simple: "There are a lot of players with horrible ping in the servers lately making gameplay suffer. Please review the ping limits."

[tawny meadow]

@calm sinew more than having a number of dedicated perks for each weapon, i'd prefer for Martialist to be the one that unlock potential new stuff for axes and such

but apart from that, yeah, i would love it

[jagged wagon]

@ionic talon the first time I attempted to flash someone after the nerf I honestly wasn’t sure if I was trying to flash him or mix him a martini the animation was so bad, not taken it in since.

[queen jungle]

@orchid trench selling looted guns is not intend as per the devs as it would make PvP too rewarding.

[subtle lichen]

Am I missing something? Do people really think that someone having a high ping means they can see you for longer?

[hot vigil]

High ping can lead to situation where you have turned a corner and still die bc the high ping player still saw you on their screen.
But same thing can happen for the high ping player too.

[subtle lichen]

Yes, but they would still only have the same opportunity to shoot you as someone with a lower ping, it just happens a shorter time later. Right?

[hot vigil]

Aaah, you talking about peakers advantage.

[subtle lichen]

Well, the example everyone always seems to use indicates they're getting shot from a reasonable distance away. That would seem to imply that peeker's advantage wouldn't apply if the shit-pinger is not moving.

[hot vigil]

If a shit-pinger doesn't move and you move into their vision cone they don't have an advantage, BUT if you react first and shoot, then the information delay will expand the opportunity of the shit-pinger to shoot back and trade.

YC = Your Client, S = Server, EC = Enemy client.

[subtle lichen]

Where's that table from? Because from what people have shared on here, that wouldn't work that way for Hunt supposedly.

[hot vigil]

https://www.reddit.com/r/HuntShowdown/comments/urkc9y/comment/i8ztd6f/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
A very long and informative post :)

(in the comments)

[subtle lichen]

Interesting read nonetheless.

[hot vigil]

Hence why I say high ping ain't an advantage, just makes it worse for everyone :)

[jagged wagon]

From what I gather from the multitude of complaints, the Asian region servers are a complete mess, and that has pushed a lot of people from that region to play in the next region they can, is it the sole cause? Of course not, but it’s not helping. Lately I have noticed that from my location in Western Europe, I get a better ping to the OCE servers than the Asian ones, despite the fact that distance wise it should be the other way round.

[analog willow]

@lunar crag #game-ideas message I was literally about to post the same suggestion!

[queen jungle]

@plain yarrow For those who don't know, please provide a detailed description of your suggestion, what it was you want to see changed exactly and why other users should support your idea.

[hot vigil]

One server over would be Russia, not EU tho.

[jagged wagon]

It would, and depending on the location in Asia, OCE, SA or US West would also be closer, however, i believe both OCE and Russia are low pop, and SA and US west would be a low pop at the times they are likely to play. Like I suggested, it might be one of many reasons people in the asian region are choosing to play in other regions, and if the Asian servers really are as bad as the complaints suggest, crytek really need to look at doing something about it.

[hazy apex]

I'm going to beat a dead horse here the ping abusers are a real issue so until that is fixed me and my buddies are done with Hunt sadly.

[frigid folio]

https://tenor.com/view/brrr-so-cold-its-so-cold-gif-14907724622547949218

[hazy apex]

found the ping abuser ^^^^^^^^

[frigid folio]

You literally came in after people have just had a discussion about how ping abusing isnt a thing to say youre quiting because youre getting killed xD

[hazy apex]

to think ping abusing isn't a thing lmao

it's been a thing is pretty much every fps game ever

[hazy apex]

and it has nothing to do with getting killed

[frigid folio]

Please i beg of you to go back over the messages in this channel over the last few days, with countless reports of debunking of ping abuse in hunt

[frigid folio]

you wouldnt be saying youre quitting because of ping abuse if you werent getting killed.

[hazy apex]

whoever thinks ping abuse doesn't happen is part of the problem

it's as bad as people saying Hunt isn't infested with aim bots and wall hacks

but go ahead and turn a blind eye and watch a really good game die because of it

[frigid folio]

Just please, go look at the information thats been provided. Learn some of the facts about it, and then if you still have that same opinion then thats up to you. You can lead an animal to the water but cant force it to drink. "Ping abuse" does not provide an advantage to the person with high ping. You are still on that persons screen sticking your head out from cover into the scope of a sniper for the exact same amount of time

[hazy apex]

I have read it that's why I said I was beating a dead horse

And I can tell you that a high ping can 100% give someone an advantage so go ahead and keep turning that blind eye

[frigid folio]

What advantage does it give? Im really curious, as someone who plays on multiple servers (depending on population count at the time) but everything feels much smoother and more in my favour on lower ping. Im really curious as to the supposed "advantages" im getting when i get shot by a player who on my screen is in full sprint without their weapon at the hip, but on their screen they've stopped and aimed and killed me xD

[hazy apex]

It's no use your mind is made up I said what I said

I'm done

[frigid folio]

So in other words there is none xD

[manic burrow]

Title: PLEASE do something about the excessive use of grenades (Posting here too because I am open to discussion on this)

Description: The use of grenades and other explosives is out of control. Over half of our fights at this point start with the other team throwing 2-3 explosives before firing a bullet. Rather than have an actual gunfight, teams are more and more frequently choosing to lob half a dozen explosives into every corner of the compound before considering even a peek. Tonight alone, between three consecutive games (just 3 separate fights), we faced a total of 15 explosives. This is not an exaggeration. We literally counted. This use of explosives is making it so that there is no incentive to be the first to the boss, because holding a building just means you'll get carpet bombed until you eat an unlucky frag. On the attacking side, the decision becomes "Why would we push into that building when we can just throw 5 frags and kill everybody inside?" I have only been playing for a little over a year myself, but my friends and I play Hunt on Xbox nearly everyday and have a cumulative 4000+ hours in the game. The constant use of explosives to clear out every compound is making us look for alternative games to play because this is just too much. Its been an issue for a while, but it's become way too common. We are really hoping that you can do something to fix this issue. One of the solutions that we have thought of would be making lethal throwables take two consumable slots instead of one, and removing explosives (or at least lowering their drop rate) from the looting pool. This would still allow players to take in explosives so that they can create openings in a fight, scatter entrenched enemies, or blow open doors, but limits a teams ability to abuse the mechanic for aforementioned purposes. I really hope you find a solution to this, because I would love to continue enjoying Hunt.
(Also, the frag bow isn't really helping)

[weary fox]

Wrong channel bucko.

[manic burrow]

What makes this the wrong channel to open up my feedback for discussion?

[weary fox]

You link to the feedback/idea, you don't post ideas/feedback here. There is a separate channel for these things.

If people decide to not cover or feedback your post you can link it here to look for feedback

Or more often than not, people will just overlook most feedback/suggestions unless it is a big controversy or a good suggested change

[manic burrow]

Define "link to the feedback"

[weary fox]

But I'll give my perspective on your feedback since it does actually call out major issues regarding explosives

[weary fox]

Like this #game-ideas message

So I linked back to my own suggestion

[manic burrow]

Ah, ok. Is that done through "copy message link" when I right click? I don't really ever use discord so I don't really know what all it does/can do. I pretty much dug up my account specifically because Hunt's website redirected me here

[weary fox]

It's fine, yes it's copy message link

[subtle lichen]

I actually thought they did already. Like Coal Bearer does his evil laugh, Carcass Gunrunner taps his bicep, Revenant notices he had a hole is his chest?

[weary fox]

Oh shit

Wait

There fixed it.

I forgot to add the guns part

Since rn, all legendaries are just tier 3s

[subtle lichen]

Aah right, gotcha.

[weary fox]

Lemme

Redo that sug, it's horrible

[hot vigil]

There is currently an exploit where people have infinite throwables, so it might be factor of that.
That said don't know how wide-spread that exploit is (nor how to replicate it), but if people wanna, well, exploit it, it is very easy to do so, as it is hard to gauge if those 3 frags were legit spend or if exploiter used the same frag 3 times over.
But besides that, the biggest issue in my opinion is just that frags are really good, hence why people choose to resort to it.

[teal parcel]

Your choice to stay in the building

[hot vigil]

That is the neat part, Frags are still insanely strong outside

[rancid pebble]

Wait, think this might be the wrong place… apologies everyone!

[weary fox]

Bombs that need tuning are Flashes and Fraggies. Fraggies get the lethality of a bundle on top of inflicting heavy bleed if you're hit with even a small piece of shrapnel. Flashes are just garbage in their current nerfed state and are basically removed from the game.

Other than that, the other explosives are fine.

The sticks are cheap but still lethal, with the bundle being the best explosive imo excluding frags.

Big bundle are those who feel like memeing, I love this thing. Bugs are fine since they have basically no lethality but give big info and flush people away from cover.

Fire bombs are area denial with hellfire being treated as a crippling agent.

Wires are there to provide utility and are the best in terms of a mix of deadliness and utility.

[hot vigil]

One of the most important factors is that frags have the AoE of a Big Dynamite Bundle, but the throwing range of a Dynamite Stick.
Literally the best of both worlds

[rotund obsidian]

i still think its a bit odd that the dynamite stick and the bundle have the same throwing distance but its so unproblematic that i dont really care

frags meanwhile...

[hot vigil]

Think that bundle have a slightly shorter throw range no?

[weary fox]

Nope

They're same

Bundles are a straight upgrade from sticks

[rotund obsidian]

no they're the same. i think the stats used to say the stick could go further but it was wrong and it got fixed when they updated the stats pages

[weary fox]

The issue is fraggies get the bundle's lethality range while also getting heavy bleed on top of it, where the bundle only takes chunks away, the fraggies cripplies the victim for much longer

[rancid pebble]

I want to stop prestigeing so I have moneys. But I also like 50 laurels, so… lol. I want to be able to run all big dynamite bundles

Big bundles are so expensive! I find I’m more liable to kill MYSELF than the enemy

[weary fox]

Bro tryna atomic bomb the bayou

[rotund obsidian]

the bleed is so obnoxious, someone can graze you with a frag for like two damage and boom youre heavy bleeding

[weary fox]

Yeah that's why they're the meme of the explosives

[rancid pebble]

Hey, if I can’t stab them I blow them up!

[weary fox]

They're so deadly, you'd have a higher chance of getting fucked by yourself than fucking the ebemy

[weary fox]

Hey, at least you're not me. I run hives to annoy people

Imagine having 4 hives chasing you

[hot vigil]

Ah okay, so I weren't totally crazy for thinking so haha

[rancid pebble]

Genuinely a threat haha

[hot vigil]

"Frag Bombs are best used for groups of enemies, as the damage spreads out in a radial pattern, dealing massive damage in close range. They are often best used as a first strike, dealing massive damage before the Hunter can rush in and finish off survivors."
What is this writing? What surviviors?!

[weary fox]

Yeah, theyre my pets, they tend to not like allies too

[rancid pebble]

I imagine with pitcher it’s actually ok, no?

[weary fox]

[weary fox]

Increase throw range by 2 meters

Darn

[hot vigil]

Writing like this makes me believe that Crytek cannot make their game work as intended 😂

[weary fox]

IVE HAD FRAGS KILL ME THROUGH METAL ROOFS

THANKS A LOT CRYTEK

CONCERTINA CLIPPING THROUGH FLOORS TOO

[hot vigil]

I've had frags hit me thru stone walls

[weary fox]

WOW I GET FUCKED BECAUSE I THREW WIRES

[rancid pebble]

Just had the better gaming chair fr

[rancid pebble]

That’s about… one stab range? Thats pretty good!

[weary fox]

Ah shit you're right, while I'm at it. Let me download Aimbot + esp + triggerbot too

[rancid pebble]

Woooowww

[rotund obsidian]

all that will lose to my gaming socks

[rancid pebble]

Yeah, gaming socks are OP tbh

Devs pls nerf

[weary fox]

BDB are only practical with Pitcher imo, and they're still a giant meme. They're funny and they act as an extremely reliable smokebomb to cover revives

[rancid pebble]

Aren’t they also like 100 each?

[weary fox]

Yeah, and they have the tendency to turn you into a smoking pile of flesh if you're not precise with em

[rancid pebble]

lol, but in all seriousness I would KILL for a scrap beak plush

[weary fox]

[weary fox]

My favourite boss is scrapbeak, he is the superior life form, I love him.

Scrapbeak 4 life

[rancid pebble]

That’s the joy… who needs precision when you can ma- KABOOM

BANG! CRASH!

AHH-UUHhgg

[rancid pebble]

For sure

[weary fox]

They're funny since you can't tell the difference in fuse sounds, chances are you're gonna get killed when the dude throws a big D at you since you underestimated it's lethal range

[rancid pebble]

Depressed soldier bird best bird

[weary fox]

Yes, I feed him sunflower seeds before I kill him

[rancid pebble]

Think frag is slightly different though right?

At least at the start?

Can’t remember

[weary fox]

They're VERY different

Which is why people also run when you light a sticky

Chaos, sticky and fraggy share the same fuse sound

Also, how the fuck do our hunters light the fuze with their fingers????

Has no one questioned the logic?

[rancid pebble]

Voodoo magic bullshit

Just roll with it

[rancid pebble]

Ah, thought so!

[hot vigil]

Very coarse skin on their fingers

[weary fox]

The fuck?

He rubs the fuze and it magically lights

I feel sorry for their wives then

[rancid pebble]

Well, you know how matches need to be rubbed against a rough surface?

The fuse IS matches I think

At least for fire bombs

[weary fox]

Perhaps

Yeah seems feasible

[rancid pebble]

It’s fine, they just have fingers with the texture of sandpaper lol

[hot vigil]

1896, caring for their wives 👊😔

[rancid pebble]

Is it 1896? Thought it was 95

[weary fox]

Lore has progressed to 1905 lol

[rancid pebble]

Wait tf

[weary fox]

AND THERE IS STILL NO STRAIGHT PULL BOLT

[rancid pebble]

WHEN!?

[hot vigil]

Don't think we are that far.

[rancid pebble]

Lee Enfield when?

[weary fox]

Tide of Desolation lore

[weary fox]

Winchester Lee Navy was produced and used in 1895~

[rancid pebble]

Think the Enfield was adopted in 1895

[weary fox]

MLE or SMLE?

[rancid pebble]

MLE, the SMLE was WW1 if I remember

I’m not sure.

[weary fox]

WW1 saw widespread use of SMLE as their standard infantry rifle. MLE was phased out already iirc

[rancid pebble]

Maybe it WAS the smle then

I’ll check

[weary fox]

Crytek should add a M60

[rancid pebble]

Nah, Maxim gun. Keep it realistic please

[weary fox]

Aight aight, add the Bazooka then

[hot vigil]

Yes 1895, not 1905, tides trilogy takes place in the year 1895

[weary fox]

Shite.

Wait that means it's still possible to have it added

[hot vigil]

Sure, but why the fuck should have another long ammo bolt action gun

Krag could have been the Enfield.

[weary fox]

Make it Medium I guess.

[weary fox]

Honestly I'd rather have SMLE as a Medium than a Long

[rancid pebble]

“Lee-Enfield rifle, rifle adopted by the British army as its basic infantry weapon in 1902. The short, magazine-loaded Lee-Enfield (Mark I, or SMLE) superseded the longer Lee-Enfield that was first produced in 1895”

[weary fox]

Iirc SMLE MK1 only held 5 rounds

[rancid pebble]

What does Iirc mean?

[weary fox]

If I remember correctly

[hot vigil]

Think the fever bolt actions, the better. Just gonna turn into a WW1 shooter otherwise

[rancid pebble]

Oh, cool! Thanks! That one always confused me lol

[weary fox]

Hahaha! True true

Add the volcanic pistol.

[rancid pebble]

So… no maxim gun?

[rancid pebble]

Does 20 damage lol

[weary fox]

Tbh it wouldn't fit Hunt,

[rancid pebble]

Gatling gun?

[weary fox]

Our voodoo hunters make it chamber Long+ ammo

HAHAHAHA

149.99 damage per shot

NOW

[hot vigil]

Funny, issue is that due to Hunts weapon/damage model the Volcanic would be akin to a Derringer. Again if hunt was set in 1885 it might have worked.

[rancid pebble]

Seriously, a guy tried to kill himself with it, and it WOULD NOT KILL HIM

THE GUN FAILED

[hot vigil]

Eyup, Volcanic was historically shiet

[weary fox]

Any type of high ROF gun wouldn't work. I mean, they scrapped the Cei Rigotti in the early stages. Same goes to Crown Drum Mag

Yes. There was consideration of A CROWN DRUM MAG

[weary fox]

[rancid pebble]

I have heard tales… oh, such tales…

[weary fox]

Yeah. Crytek can do funky shit to make guns work. I mean, look at the Lemat pistol.

For anyone wondering here. The current Lemat we have is not real.

[hot vigil]

Yeah, never ever balance your game around an in-game out-of-match economy.

[rancid pebble]

Didn’t realise the cei riggoti was planned…

[rancid pebble]

Imagine an authentic lemat lol

“Hold on, let me reload! Now we get the powder, the ball…”

[weary fox]

There is either a fully modelled version on reddit or it was extremely well drawn

[rancid pebble]

You be sat for like a minute

[weary fox]

Modelled by devs fyi

[weary fox]

Chain pistol vibes ngl

[rancid pebble]

Huh. Cool!

[rotund obsidian]

when i misclick the shotgun tabbing into the game at the start and have to spend the entire match reloading it

[rancid pebble]

lol

I imagine with a musket in game you could have it reload somewhat quicker than IRL

especially with paper cartridges they issued

[weary fox]

The Lemat we have: Breaks open cylinder, shell in, smack it. Closes

The actual lemat: Use ejector pin, get many small balls, get black powder... No

[weary fox]

RDR2 did a good job on the Lemat so, Crytek...?

I mean half of our reloads are already unrealistic so who cares, if they're stylish I'm happy

[rotund obsidian]

In defense of the lemat cartridges, I imagine having a sidearm with a shotgun would have been more valuable (and not just phased out) when going up against fucked up beefy monsters and the undead

[rancid pebble]

How does RDR2 do it again?

[weary fox]

Uhhhh.. I don't remeber

[rotund obsidian]

I do imagine the gunsmithing in hunt universe would have diverged from reality in certain ways, especially when your target isn't just normal fleshy humans, but voodoo magic'd supersoldiers and big armored monsters walking around

[weary fox]

pushes the side of the cylinder, spent round magically comes out

Hmmmm...

[rancid pebble]

Hunters are sometimes else. They’ve literally got the ability to materialise bullets from thin air lol

I want some more animations that just OOSE style

[hot vigil]

Well then we'll have a flamethrower. Almost anything in the bayou hates fire

[rancid pebble]

Like the peacekeeper in BF1

Or the lemat intro in the menu

[weary fox]

That shit is sexy af

[rancid pebble]

Oh, it’s so good. 1895 trench, peacekeeper? I’m a happy man

[weary fox]

Crytek should copy bf 1 Mosin reload

[rancid pebble]

What is the bf1 mosin reload again? I’ve not unlocked the mosin yet lol

[rotund obsidian]

i figured they were just loose and the flick backwards is why they come out lol

[weary fox]

Go take a look at YouTube

[weary fox]

No. With gate loaded revolvers, you need to use the ejector pin to eject the spent round properly. In real life, flicking em like that would only work... 20-50% of the time? Due to heat making the casing expand or dirt and gunpowder clogging it inside there.

[rotund obsidian]

you underestimate bayou manufacturing 😈

[weary fox]

Not complaining though, Hunt reloads are extremely well done and creative

[weary fox]

Ejector pin on the gun: am I a joke to you?

[hot vigil]

Hunters carries their ammo in a box of lube

Only explanation

[rotund obsidian]

its just a loose pouch filled with vaseline

[rancid pebble]

Oh, so it’s just bullet grabber then

[rancid pebble]

The thought of this is hilarious

[weary fox]

Yeah I guess, it's just, you keep your hand over the internal mag so a round does not fly out

[hot vigil]

True to life uppercut, gun now have a 40% chance to blow up in your hand.

[rancid pebble]

Eh, bullet grabber is cooler tbh

[weary fox]

oh god, please don't remind me

[weary fox]

<3 Lebel Bulletgrab

[rancid pebble]

Nothing like SNATCHING a bullet from the air

“THOUGHT YOU COULD GET AWAY HUH!? BACK IN THE GUN”

[hot vigil]

New Trait, Racoon Paws: You can now loot decoys from can and glass sound traps.

[weary fox]

I honestly want to suggest a trait that delays extraction time for a huge risk.

I've already done it once, it wasn't liked at all

[rancid pebble]

What do you mean? Like you have to wait 60 secs, but you get extra money or xp?

[hot vigil]

New Trait, Blood Funnel: On empty firing convert 15/20/30 (compact, medium/shotgun, long/custom ammo) of your HP into a bullet for each shot fired.
Guy fire one salvo of avto and lose 90hp

[rotund obsidian]

regen shot + frag bow

[hot vigil]

But 30 hp for a nitro bullet is pretty good

Fanning conversion with 9 extra shots (10, but then you die)

[rancid pebble]

Oh god

[hot vigil]

Regen shot + concertina arrows

[rancid pebble]

OH NO

OH GOD NO

[weary fox]

Nah it's more of a trait that cripples you but extends extraction time for enemies

[rancid pebble]

Oh, yeah that’s a bad idea

A trait that affects EVERYONE else in the game CONSTANTLY? Nah

[weary fox]

Nah more of

An extraction point you choose

It's a burn trait

[rancid pebble]

How would they even implement that?

[remote ore]

too complex, it's a shooter not an RTS :P

[rancid pebble]

I just feel like that’s not the type of thing that would be fun for anyone.

If someone gets to an extract and can survive the extract timer, I believe they should be allowed to leave.

[remote ore]

that + it's not the essence of the game

[hot vigil]

Honestly people escaping to extraction is a skill issue 99% of the time

Of the other team

[rancid pebble]

Team escaping or chasing?

[weary fox]

Name: Blood is Time

Type of trait: Burn

Description: Choose an extraction point by entering Darksight and pointing in the general direction of the extract. After choosing, your Hunter will pull out a ritual dagger and stab themselves, burning the arm on your screen and burning away 75 HP. The extraction point that is chosen will have it's timer extended by 15 seconds

[rancid pebble]

Eh… interesting idea.

[hot vigil]

Chasing.
99% of the time you can set yourself in position that makes it impossible for teams to escape.

[rancid pebble]

Still dont necessarily like it, but its an interesting idea

[hot vigil]

Sure you might end up contesting around the extract.

[unborn dagger]

@ionic talon Agreed, the animation needs to go for the flashbomb. It literally has no reason to be used now compared to a stick of dynamite because you aren't locked to an animation.

[ashen silo]

@dense barn

I remember once i hit a guy with tomahawk axe to the chest and he didnt die .
When i checked the video I recorded, i saw that the axe was stuck to his fucking hand . Because it was in front of him as you mentioned…

[vital drum]

While that is true for throwable melee weapons, crossbow bolts and arrows, bullets can penetrate limbs and limb with the highest modifier is taken into account @dense barn

[humble quest]

This. Almost every time I've ever run it's because either nobody is on scan, or everyone on scan is near max distance for some reason not on the side my extract is on

If you're that far out I'm going to just assume you have scopes and not engage if I am not equipped to deal with it

And if you chose to sit on the wrong side of the compound... Sucks to suck

[hot vigil]

I call running away from such people the "No wait- that's illegal!"-strategy.

[tidal stump]

Hello, I have such a problem, today after a losing game I was banned, for a reason unknown to me, if there is any way to solve this problem, please let me know

[hot vigil]

#customer-support

[blissful jackal]

#game-ideas message @night copper melee already is one shot kill a large amout of time theres no point in added such things

[unborn smelt]

Increased effectiveness against AI, world interactions like lighting oil spills, potentially dual purpose by having it give off light

All possible options

[limpid chasm]

The amount of brand new accounts that only play this game that are obviously closet or blatently cheating is absurd. its EVERY game. Has no one addressed this ever?

[unborn smelt]

Can propably find more with a bir of creativity

[tiny pivot]

I think it would be more visible in boss situations, in which case imo it's nice

You could run a poison melee with the benefit of absolutely SMACKING most AI but if the boss is spider? Get fucked lmao DIE

Fire melee, also good against AI, but terrible into immolators and burns Scrapbeak so it doesnt drop loot, but does overall more dameg

[humble quest]

Increased effectiveness against AI doesn't feel like it's... Well a choice. They just become objectively the better melee

[unborn smelt]

Not neccessarily

As pointed out above, poison may melt some bosses and most AI

But the spider is entirely immune for example

And fire would prevent scrappy from dropping loot

[humble quest]

But she's not immune to melee. And I doubt the damage becomes all poison. It's still objectively better to take than an average melee

[unborn smelt]

That depends on how the numbers are balanced

Could turn out the way you say

But they could ofc also make sure it doesn't

[humble quest]

They either become not one shots to hunters, in which case nobody takes it, or they're just better. I don't see much way for there to be a middle

If someone is taking parts of their loadout explicitly because it's strong against AI that player is already struggling against AI and that's a whole other issue.

[unborn smelt]

I mean if it OHK's a hunter and melts 3 of the 4 bosses, but does basically nothing to spider it'd definetly be a trade off IMO

[humble quest]

Rolling the dice that you need to pick up a world melee to kill one of 4 bosses doesn't sound like a downside

World melee is already preferable to your knuckle knife

[unborn smelt]

I mean then why take melee to beginn with ?

[ionic talon]

Flash revive when ?

[unborn smelt]

You can OHK with a bayonet or talon just fine and can find world melee against bosses anyway

By that logic melee as a whole is irrelevant

[humble quest]

It's a basic necessity yes, but if you're taking a poison melee because it's good against AI but fails against hunters you're playing a fundamentally different game than most

[unborn smelt]

I just disagree with the "fails against hunters" part

Thats why i never assumed it should to beginn with

I see it more as in is bad vs some AI while good vs other.

Like the melee dmg types are already to a degree

Where blunt is okay vs almost anything, great against bees and immolators, while rending sucks against immolators but is generally better agaonst the rest

[humble quest]

One ai isn't some though. If the weakness is one random boss out of four it's still objectively better than a regular melee

[unborn smelt]

Again depends on how you go and do the finetuning in balancing

One could also make it suck against hives for example

Or by having the melee part be piercing or rending it'd also struggle against immolators