feedback-discussion

[maiden pelican]

I'd like pax with long barrel and deadeye scope small slot, and long barrel and stock medium

Both with 115 damage and more range

[vital fractal]

Quite a few questionable additions but

As always need to wait till stats come out

[brisk timber]

Cant agree more

Its a bit annoying to be honest. It seems that crytek always push the boundaries upwards and focuses on stuff that already has enough of it. Same as all the damn scottfield skins that we really have enough of.

Instead of brushing the dust off some other things

Pax and Cent could really need some love. The shorty was a good start but i fear that the vet carabine will just steal its show all over again

[vital fractal]

That’s my issue

If it’s medium slot, what’s the point of the shorty other than the silencer?

If it’s full 3 slot, will it simply just be a better CQC vet?

The Uppercut didn’t need even more versatility as it can be a very potent primary alone tbh

It also takes away (the upper cut and vet) from attention as you said to other potential variants

Honestly, I would’ve adored a Springfield Trapdoor Tube Conversion and as I said, the pax med slot options and both I believe would’ve been much better picks for aesthetics, uniqueness, and balancing (from a first glance)

[next yarrow]

I would be very surprised is the new vetterli isn't a 3 slot

[maiden pelican]

It's going to be a 3 slot. Definitely the smalles one in the game though

[steel comet]

I find it weird that we're getting an uppercut precision right after uppermat

There's no reason for centennial levering to be shit anymore now that we're getting a semi auto vetterli.

[opaque glen]

new vetterli???

[glass shuttle]

3 rain games in a row.... please crystec i beg of you

every rain game is people just camping
cant say its alot of fun

[opaque glen]

Thoughts on vetterli cyclone? I personally detest a semi auto rifle being added. It seens like it will be difficult to balance, breaks immersion (its 1895,) and lowers the skill ceiling.

Seems like making it only effective at short ranges, and only slightly increasing rof would be effective, yet still add variety.

[unborn sandal]

I’m more excited about it probably being 2 slot than anything else

It will probably only be marginally faster than a vetterli with iron sharpshooter

[glass shuttle]

The way it recoils will be important

What makes precisions good is the way you can track your target ever with recoil and if it's anything like the nagant carbine recoil it will be just as strong so let's hope it isn't a 2 slot weapon or the games farked

[edgy sparrow]

this time we are getting many new variants i need to say

[stark fulcrum]

But none or not many of the ones requested most

Cough* Pax bunt line

[frosty fjord]

HV pax ammo when

[karmic ivy]

Sure looks like a two slot Vett. to me 🙂

No longer shall I want... God is good 😉
Long live Crytek's Hunt!

@opaque glen Did you know the Autovat has been in the game since the beginning? You seem to suggest that it came later, as a secondary idea. Which to my understanding it did not. The Autovat is as much a part of hunt as the "Winfield"...

[brisk timber]

Whats the Autovat?

isnt it called Avtomat or am i stupid?

well im stupid regardless but

[karmic ivy]

probably lol

Not sure myself, I know they would know what I was refering to fortunatly.

[crystal plume]

It is avtomat

[brisk timber]

id like to call it the
Auto-vac

[karmic ivy]

lol

[vital fractal]

Looking at Pre-Alpha gameplay of this game, and wow the graphics were insane

The atmosphere and overall look of some of the items are pretty amazing

[brisk timber]

Yea and the fps where insane aswell
looks like 20-30 fps

😄

[opaque glen]

I didn't know that, that's interesting. But I think it's in an alright spot right now, where you barely have ammo, and recoil is insane. I'm not sure how they'd balance this new addition, and I'd prefer if those types of things are few and far between. If they continue to add them, they could quickly become the norm.

[karmic ivy]

I can understand that sentiment, and I in part share it. I like Hunts slow shooting approach.

But with that said, they have done so well with the idea up to this point that I am ready to trust them on this. They are very good at what they do.

Id sooner believe the new Vett. will be great than that they will let it ruin their cafully crafted balance of power.

[vital fractal]

Considering how we have series consoles now… I would adore a focus on graphics and environment again, some paint on this game would be fantastic- the new rain weather proves this

[next yarrow]

I don't think it will be op but it opens the door to some things I would prefer not added

[little jackal]

https://www.meme-arsenal.com/memes/0b1c6313481fcd3c5a5d0ce0ad7844aa.jpg

[karmic ivy]

Where did the bad Pax touch you?

[late quartz]

Not really sure being in the game from the start means it's "as much a part of Hunt as the winfield"... like... is the electric lamp a Hunt staple? Probably not lol

The avto is certainly in the game, but its impact on the game has been extremely minor for years. Its obviously also got a lot of quirks to it that make it a fairly niche, uncomfortable weapon.
The big risk with the Cyclone is that its goin to be a fairly standard weapon, so it inherits a lot of the risks that the Dolch and Officer Carbine have, both of which have had long periods of dominance.

[karmic ivy]

chuckles
you don't even know its RoF

[late quartz]

What's your point lol

Do you think it's gonna be low?

[karmic ivy]

I think it will be appropriate for Hunt.

[next yarrow]

being mad about the avto is a hunt staple

[late quartz]

So, your guess is about as good as anybody elses, but realistically when they advertise the thing as "semi-auto"... they're implying something there LOL

[karmic ivy]

what are they implying?

[late quartz]

That it shoot quick

[karmic ivy]

how quick 😉

[late quartz]

It's not gonna have a ~50 RPM or something lol

It's sort of willfully dishonest to assert that "since we don't know it's not valid to be concerned", which seems to be what you're getting at

[next yarrow]

the funny thing is that it's still going to be mostly worse than the dolch p

[late quartz]

It might have 50 RPM or some shit, but like... probably not?

If it does, that's great, and Crytek just did a misleading teaser on twitter.

[karmic ivy]

willfully dishonest...
Don't make me spill my coffee

[late quartz]

Wouldn't want that

yes I think it's willfully dishonest to dismiss concerns because we don't know the stats yet.
Nobody's saying "it's broken and overpowered". The line is "The teaser raises eyebrows and, if it has a high RPM, that might be an issue"

[karmic ivy]

what is it dishonest about?

[late quartz]

Like, you're not making a point by just saying "we don't know". We know we don't know... it's a teaser, the point is it speculate

When we get teasers, we speculate, we discuss the possible implications of the material we have, we think about how those possibilites might affect the game

[karmic ivy]

where is the "willfully dishonest" part in what you just said? what is it dishonest about?

[late quartz]

I, in all my good faith and charitability, believe you know it's a bad point :P

[karmic ivy]

What is a bad point?

[late quartz]

Your point

I hope you know what your position is :x

[karmic ivy]

I have a question at this time.

what point do you think I am making?

[late quartz]

That, since we don't know the cyclone's rate of fire, any concern about it is invalid or irrational or silly

[late quartz]

that seems to be the implication of this snarky comment

[karmic ivy]

I said none of those things, and I don't think that. Its too strong of words.

now...

what is it dishonest about?

[late quartz]

Okay, so in plain terms lay out your position

Assuming... you have one

[karmic ivy]

can you answer my question first?

I did ask it first

[late quartz]

No

[karmic ivy]

That is strange... but ok.

[late quartz]

So in regards to the teased weapon :P

[opaque glen]

Time will tell how it turns out. But I agree, they've done a good job balancing things in the past (with the exception of the flash bomb)

[late quartz]

I hope you actually... feel some type of way about it. If you put half as much energy into actually talking about Hunt as you do throwing up meta-conversation smokescreens we might have an interesting conversation lul

[opaque glen]

That's very strange. He says you have a willfully dishonest point, but can't even answer what that point is lol

[late quartz]

tfw

[karmic ivy]

Now... what is it dishonest about? And btw I did not dismiss anything. I stated my beliefs on the matter. That was all.

But you accuse me of being dishonest... willfully. I would like to know what you think I am being dishonest about.

[late quartz]

what point do you think I am making?

That, since we don't know the cyclone's rate of fire, any concern about it is invalid or irrational or silly

I said none of those things, and I don't think that. Its too strong of words.

Okay, so in plain terms lay out your position

Have you stated your beliefs?

You dodged when asked directly :P

[karmic ivy]

here you go...

will you answer my question now?

[late quartz]

So, broadly speaking, do you feel the dolch, officer, officer carbine, and spitfire are well balanced and gel well with the rest of the game?

[late quartz]

I have, several times. If you refer back to the previous answers and have a different question I'd be willing to entertain it :P

[karmic ivy]

I would like an answer to this. ^

[late quartz]

Yeah. I've answered. You may not like the answer but it was given

[karmic ivy]

where is it?

[late quartz]

If you reread the conversation I trust you'll find it, it's quite explicit and easy to find :)

[karmic ivy]

Dont be silly, you did not give me one.

[late quartz]

I think it'd be good for you to give it a shot

[karmic ivy]

I think you argue disingenuously

[late quartz]

Well, that's an accusation I'll have to tank

[opaque glen]

You never answered the question. What's his point?

[karmic ivy]

Thanks mate,
My "point" actually does not even matter here. He accused me of being dishonest, then will not tell me how exactly that works...
Its become clear what he is.

Good Hunting!

[late quartz]

I wouldn't dare to paraphrase, it's replied to here

[opaque glen]

You denied calling him willfully dishonest, despite using those exact words. You didn't answer the question of what his point was, you merely said what your point was.

[brazen shoal]

out of these guns I'd say the spifire is the only balanced one.

[late quartz]

Why's that? tbh I sort of see the spitfire as more problematic than the standard officer due to it being medium ammo and having access to FMJ

Although obviously the dolch and carbine are probably more problematic

[opaque glen]

That's not his point. He formulated an opinion on it, and it wasn't that any concern about it's rof is invalid, irrational or silly. To my understanding, he said that he believed that they would balance it properly, as they've balanced other guns in the past.

And even if that was his point, how would that be willfully dishonest?

[brazen shoal]

bullet velocity, the spitfires bullet velocity is like 280m/s, the officer and all it's variants are above 300, and if you add HV to it, oh boy

[late quartz]

Yes, eventually he clarified his point.

[karmic ivy]

#feedback-discussion message

[late quartz]

#feedback-discussion message

[brazen shoal]

not to mention the officers recoil is easier

[brazen shoal]

plus it has better sights imo

[late quartz]

Recoil is definitely a valid concern here, and HV does have its clear benefits.
The standard MV difference if both have stock ammo is, as far as I understand, essentially imperceptible. The 50mv difference between the two is gonna have virtually no effect on where you need to aim to hit a shot (less than a heads width of difference).

Irons I would honestly say are somewhat of a tradeoff? I think there's certainly some objective benefits to the officer's irons, but there is a level of subjectivity to it as well. Probably depends on the person somewhat.

[opaque glen]

You never said what his point was. When I asked you, you addressed your point, being that you believed it was willfully honest to dismiss concerns.

[late quartz]

I said, and I quote, "I wouldn't dare to paraphrase, it's replied to here" and directly linked to him stating his own position.

If that's not sufficient I think you'll have to find a way to carry on without a satisfying conclusion LUL

[karmic ivy]

#feedback-discussion message

[next ember]

#game-ideas message

What am I reading

[brazen shoal]

all ik is that I see far more ppl using the officer and officer carbine than the spitfire. and I never really have a chance to react against the officer/officer carbine, if they hit you once they're going to hit you twice, and that second shot comes immediately after the first one.

[late quartz]

Fair enough I guess.

The spitfire feels a little more questionable largely because of FMJ and because it does have a slightly higher rate of fire. The RPM is offset by its greater recoil but I don't personally tend to notice people taking longer between shots, not in myself nor it others who're shooting at me.

As I say, I think you're probably justified in feeling the way you do. Just different values/concerns

[hardy coral]

The spitfire is the best comparison and the gun is borderline OP.

Since the recoil doesn't matter because the reset of it coincides with the firerate and it doesn't have the semi-auto sway of other guns when firing multiple shots since it isn't technically semi-auto.

[late quartz]

That's probably why I don't notice the recoil, good point

[hardy coral]

It isn't OP because of the 107 damage, low velocity and how it fails the two tap timing vs the true double action pistols.

Vet will have better but still poor velocity and better damage, it'll still fail vs the nagant carbine and double action pistols. It'll probably perform like a 3 slot spitfire.

Issue is if you miss the first 2-3 shots you are punished more on the last couple due to the semi-auto sway on consequetive shots. The spitfire can unload all 6 without issue.

I am still betting on a 0.9-1 second cycle, maybe a slight bit shorter if the recoil is actually punishing without HV.

[vital fractal]

I don’t like the idea of a semi auto rifle in the game and the Nagant Carbine is cool as a concept and a gun but it still irks me- but it’s in the game already

I didn’t think it needed a buff and that the HV exploit should’ve been patched rather than essentially spread to normal and poison ammo but it’s in the game oh well

A semi auto vet? They are going to need to do some major balancing on it because on paper on first glance that is ridiculous power creep

I do have to question though, the Precision Uppercut

Like, why did they feel the uppercut needed a precision variant

I guess they wanted a precision in every ammo type but still… the uppercut? Really?

[wanton imp]

guess they really wanna bury the uppermat

[turbid oxide]

A couple days ago i mentioned a new derringer on here, bringing up the bicycle gun, crytec already had something cooking if the trailer reviews are truee!

[next yarrow]

I would rather have the uppercut p than the uppermat tbh

[vital fractal]

The uppercut precision is a gun I adore the look of, and I’m sure it’ll be cool af to use

But the uppercut is so strong already, a precision variant just completely takes the limelight away from the LeFat

A precision uppercut is huge competition to the Mosin Obrez

The LeFat had a position since it was more stable, and fired faster, along with not needing bullet grubber

The shotgun underneath was mainly for slugs or utility/ammo

It had stats in line with medium ammo rifles

An Uppercut P is just, better unless the slugs were that useful to a person

The slugs, or poison/fmj on long

[half stag]

Ngl, most of the variants this patch are stuff that I feel aren't really needed. Where's a pump action rifle for iron devestator, pax precision/carbine (something to give it a role), New medium ammo secondary (howdah for h.v secondary or merwin & hulbert for fast partial reloading but still slow empty reload), something. Like cool, we get a silenced semi-auto and a semi-auto rifle, but those were niches that were not aching to be filled so soon. The other variants just seem like stuff that was added cause of "why not" rather than an attempt at filling missing important niches in the roster.

[opaque glen]

@bold valley that feature is planned :)

[vital fractal]

Fr, a silenced bornheim? Like it’s not a bad addition but compared to the pax which has basically been ignored save a tweak for fanning and some ammo? (And not even the ammo we were asking for, HV) schoffield should’ve gotten Poison imo

The bayonet springfield is amazing tho, thank you Crytek for listening on that one front lmao

[next yarrow]

the bornheim silenced will be fun to fuck around with but I don't think it will be any good

[vital fractal]

Yeah that’s why I don’t really have an issue with it, just the fact resources to develop it were spent on it rather than a better alternative weapon

[next yarrow]

I mean let's be real the only real resources spent are for the model (based off of the existing model even) and the sound (I have no idea how much work this is tbh)

like the resources spent are pretty marginal here

[vital fractal]

I mean, regardless of how hard people believe actually making guns in game and such are, I refer to limited budgets and time as the resources in this case- which are absolutely limited, because that’s just business

Again, I’m sure the game could be way more beautiful and aesthetic, with way better models and animations but even as little as some changes may cost

They still cost, and the management and C suites may not agree to that increase-

Hell, they may not agree to what’s already been proposed in some cases lmaoo

That’s why this batch of guns that’s coming out has a bit of an iffy feel from me

They seem really cool, and interesting, but when I get into it- it isn’t as nice as I would like to think

I mean perfection shouldn’t be the enemy of improvement and enjoyment but this is a feedback discussion channel- it’s here to have discussions and feedback

[next yarrow]

Crytek decision making makes more sense when you remember every single one of their fathers were killed by a Caldwell Pax

[vital fractal]

Common .45LC w

[analog willow]

@white oasis Good point about hornskin! Maybe they could increase the time between swings and improve the damage?

[white oasis]

yeah, make it a bit different
good idea

[high marten]

The Springfield Compact Striker and Winfield Vandal bayonets should both one hit kill on a charged attack. That would bring them in line with the Romero hatchet and the other bayonet weapons

[steel comet]

Think they are both called striker.
They should at least one tap grunts with light swing.

[tulip pulsar]

Not sure what the thought process was but man… more spam weapons is the last thing we need and the uppercut precision… smh. yeah it’ll look cool and probably be a good choice with quartermaster and a shotgun, but it’s competing in an already crowded space where there could have easily been much better areas in the line up to round out.

High MMR is all movement and game sense anyway, accuracy is a given and long ammo rifles are always the natural choice and we are pretty much okay with that since it’s mostly an even playing field that way and makes it much more about raw mechanical skill and positioning to win a fight.
You know what ruins that? SPAM Weapons.
Avto was obviously hated for that reason and the Dolches get similar vibes, but at least with them and also the lower tier spam guns like new army, spitfire, and the officers it feels more fair since it’s your two tap finisher or close range backup and they have their flaws.

I’d say the High MMR meta as it is right now is the healthiest I’ve seen it. Absolutely not perfect, but stable and predictable enough to be enjoyable.

95% of the time
Krag + sparks pistol
OR
Mosin/Lebel + uppercut or dolch
OR
Sparks + officer/new army

Occasionally you see Nitros or snipers, spitzer is a perfectly valid choice, and you’ll have variations with fanning conversion fmj secondary or medium shotgun…

Problems?
That would be the explosive crossbow and the flash bomb.
Get rid of the skill bomb entirely and rethink the explosive bolt and you’re increasing the health of the high mmr meta considerably.

Wanna make it worse instead?
How about running suppressed Sparks with a suppressed spam Bornhiem pistol.
How about an uppercut p with a crown and king slugs or slate slugs? In other words the no consequences or downsides loadout for the hunters who already see money as no object…

Low MMR is already shotgun or bust. More spam is just more novelty than anything. Sure, I could maybe see a Cyclone meta emerging since it could be a more forgiving and accessible alternative to a krag with iron sharpshooter. Still… it’s not gonna shake things up there in a significant way.

So what is the gap or problem in either meta that these weapons will solve?

Seems to me like another minimal effort content release, which… I understand why, but does it have to be so thoughtless?

[unborn smelt]

@iron trench Even in CS the time of full blind plus the disorientation after takes between 2 and 5 seconds roughly on a successful hit.
But smth else to consider here is that the blind alone is worthless it you can't follow up with the killing...

And in CS:GO you can dump ~20 rounds of AK in the ~2 sec of full flash only and the entire mag in 3 sec. While in hunt a followup hit with smth like a winnie takes an entire 1.2 sec, and even the faster guns in the arsenal only fire at~100 Rpm which means you could only fire ~2-3 shots in a 2 sec blind.

Not saying the flash is in a great place right now - but gunplay wise Hunt and CS:GO are so far apart that comparing the numbers really dosn't help much

[rotund obsidian]

I think the time to kill is less of a concern here, and the comparison is valid. If I flashed someone in counter-strike and they were fully blind for like, 5-6 seconds, I could just throw flashes onsite and getting hit by it would be a death sentence since I could just walk completely onsite and around their cover and shoot them. Flashes in counter-strike exist to briefly cut off lines of sight or force people to back up into cover, not to guarantee free kills. Meanwhile, flashes in hunt give you so much time to just walk straight out towards your opponent and shotgun or just double tap someone either tucked in a corner or jumping around for their life.

[warped flicker]

Is there any chance we get better servers with higher tick-rate in the future?

[unborn smelt]

the diffrence there is not the time flashed tho - because flash + disorienting effect in CS:GO is also up to 5 sec on a good hit

[warped flicker]

I feel like hunt has some of the worst servers

[unborn smelt]

while in CS you can sling about 10 times as much lead in that time

[rotund obsidian]

let's be real, the disorienting effect in cs:go is basically irrelevant. you're either full blind or it doesn't matter

and again, it doesn't matter how many bullets you can shoot. It's how far you can move while the enemy is flashed

[unborn smelt]

you can still put 10 times the lead downrange in CS than in hunt in the same time

[rotund obsidian]

Hell, I think the amount of bullets you can shoot is actually a bad thing for flashbangs since you can just spray wildly towards where you think someone's gonna peek from while flashed

but it really doesn't matter since hunt has plenty of weapons with similar time to kill compared to cs

shotguns are instant, dualies exist, double actions, the semi pistols, etc.

All of which only require like, a half second or less to kill, and that gives like, five full seconds to rush a blind enemy.

[unborn smelt]

Yes shotguns are instant - dualies are highly unreliable, and double actions/semi autos only do so on really short range and in general not very reliable either

[rotund obsidian]

I mean, within flashbang distance minus four seconds of running, I'd say all those guns are extremely reliable

[unborn smelt]

well only if the one flashed doesn't run themselves

[rotund obsidian]

then it's just flashbang distance, where dualies or fast pistols are still gonna kill just fine

[unborn smelt]

flashing doesn't affect moovement at all - so you can just take off in the opposite direction and the shotgunner has a hard time catching you

same against melee

now you won't outrun a semi auto or rifle tho

but those usually have longer TTK too

[rotund obsidian]

I still think you should be able to use darksight to see your immediate surroundings while flashed, that'd give people a chance to at least try to get to cover instead of getting stuck running into a wall half the time

[unborn smelt]

yeah i absolutely agree with that

i just think with all the diffrences between CS:GO and Hunt, in mapdesign, economy and most importantly gunsplay comparing the numbers 1:1 doesn't work

[rotund obsidian]

yeah but it's important to consider how helpless a flashbang in cs:go can make you feel, then imagine one that lasts three times as long in a much more open map

obviously we can't copy cs:go's flashbang length 1:1 cause that would be dumb but like, it's a good starting point to consider how busted hunt's flashes are

[unborn smelt]

but also with guns that shoot at a thenth of the RoF...

so i don't really fear being sprayed down in a fraction of a sec either

[rotund obsidian]

the TTK is really not that far off on a lot of hunt's guns, most people bring something spammy for close range or will quickswap to doubletap you if they don't

[unborn smelt]

The theoretical on paper - no. The actual one ingame, where misses and limbshots happen happen - yes

[rotund obsidian]

i think for bodyshots, a lot of cs:go's guns are probably just under half a second

[unborn smelt]

because in CS you can just spray full auto at ~10 times the RoF so singular misses don't nearly hurt as much as in hunt

in Hunt a single miss or even limbshot plummets your TTK

[unborn smelt]

yeah - while hunt's faster guns have usually 100 Rpm so ~0.6 sec on a perfect double tap to body

but in CS a missed shots adds smth like 0.1 sec to your TTK, in Hunt that's already 0.6 for every missed shot with a high RoF weapon

that's why wildly flailing about on your keayboard to make aiming harder is so effective in hunt

Also not sure if it's still a thing but in CS you get slowed down when you take dmg, making landing followups eaven easier

[rotund obsidian]

TTK as a percentage of the total flash duration is still lower in hunt, AND you have all that extra time to move into position before you even start shooting.

[unborn smelt]

i think that depends a lot on the numbers used...

[rotund obsidian]

how long is the full blind on a hunt flashbang?

[unborn smelt]

6s IIRC

but the TTK fluctuation in Hunt is quite large with how punishing armshots and misses are

while in CS the nature of full auto guns and slow applied when dealing dmg makes misses far less punishing

[rotund obsidian]

your likelihood of missing a shot in CS is drastically higher if you missed the shot before it too, since most people can't fix a spray in a tenth of a second. I'm using the best case scenario for CS bodyshots anyway, which is 0.4s for the ak-47, with a flashbang full-blind duration of 1.88s

With a 1.2s hunt TTK and a 6 second blind, that's still a lower percentage of the flash time

realistically though, I think most people are dead in well under a second from the first shot taken at them while blind in hunt

[unborn smelt]

i think that's really hard to realistically guess because it's so situational

[rotund obsidian]

anyway, all of that aside, people in csgo don't move at like 3x the speed. you can clear a LOT more distance in six seconds in hunt.

[unborn smelt]

on one hand i'd guess no, absolutely not, because a simple "chicken dance" is incredibly reliable at dragging TTK out by making people miss

plus hunt's main playerbase isn't the 6* terminators that barely miss

[rotund obsidian]

someone could full flash me and run a fucking marathon over to me behind cover, and if I just run in the opposite direction i'm gonna get two tapped much sooner

[unborn smelt]

but then again they are usually also not the 6* that can run away blindly by map knowlege of with really fast thinking

[rotund obsidian]

it doesn't matter what rank, people don't survive flashbangs

[unborn smelt]

so it sure could be many do fall in a OHK to a shotgun because they don't run away while flashed

[unborn smelt]

that entirely depends on how good your positioning is...

If you tend to position yourself nicely near cover breaking LOS should be really easy even if blinded

if you tend to not do that for whatever reason (can be a good reason too, like trying to put pressure on an enemy or rushing to flank) yeah then you have basically no chance for that to work

[rotund obsidian]

I break LOS with cover only for them to run five seconds and shoot me in the back anyway because I can't find more cover to hide behind while running away blind

[unborn smelt]

And that's what i mean by people being able to run away blinded due to map knowlege and people that can't

[rotund obsidian]

There isn't always six seconds worth of cover, flashbangs are probably even more oppressive in six star even though those people have better map knowledge

[unborn smelt]

I personally have no issue running away blinded. You get a short 1-2 sec headsup until a flash hits due to the prepping sound, allowing you to plan an escape while you can still see, then after you can use that + map knowlege to attempt stying out of LoS

[unborn smelt]

ofc there isn't always (unless you make sure there will be beforehand by positioning...)

but the flash needs to be good in at least some scenarios to be worth it somewhat..., so it needs a niche where it's very reliable and very hard to counter

[rotund obsidian]

the problem is that the "niche" right now is "is there an enemy within thirty meters of you? if yes: they die"

[unborn smelt]

and that's where i have to disagree massively

only if the one being flashed acts really really bad

within smth like 10m maybe 15m meters, yeah it's basically certaqin death

but beyond that you have a good amount of headsup 1-2 sec (the flash flies slowly and makes a distinct arming sound until it hits) and then the enemy needs to to move to a place where they can actually get Los on you

the latter depending a lot on your positioning beforehand and your ability to hide/run while blinded

Just to reemphasize - didn't say the flash the way it is rn is great, just still think too much diffrence to effectively compare it to CS:GO directly

[empty oasis]

I'm not in this argument, but is the moove vs move intentional? I've seen you use it a lot and it always makes me think of cows playing hunt

[unborn smelt]

🤣

no it's not

just a typing error i do when typing too fast, which i don't catch often to correct

[empty oasis]

Fair. Carry on

[unborn smelt]

Thx for th heads up

👍

[rotund obsidian]

I'm trying to think of other games with flashbangs that last as long as hunt, especially ones where flashbangs ignore where you're looking

[unborn smelt]

I think the inheren't issue here is that Hun't gameplay is so much slower than the typical other games with flashbangs

with an eara of single actions and at beast semi auto - compared to high cap full auto AR's

So yes they need to bring it to a place where it works in hunt without being overly dominating - but i don't think comparing the flashtime to such drastically diffrent games is the right call to base balance of

[rotund obsidian]

yeah honestly i dont think the flash duration is the root of the issue, it's how quickly and consistently flashes can be thrown at full effectiveness

a 6 second blind would be less oppressive if you actually got a reasonable warning like you do for dynamite/frags

since they go off on impact, the only thing I can think of is discouraging throwing it without cooking it which would require some whole new mechanics

[unborn smelt]

I personally would love to see them on a short impact fuze instead of instant detonation

kind of like frag arrows

[rotund obsidian]

that'd honestly be the ideal solution but since they're like, glass lightbulbs it'd be kinda odd to have them NOT detonate on impact, yknow?

[unborn smelt]

I think if they just take long to use they'll fail at flushing out campers - because then the same happens that happens with dynamites

you throw, the camper hears it, gets cover, and proceeds to cam the same spot after it went off

kind of the same way noone uses decoy fusees which have the same effect

[rotund obsidian]

i think decoy fuses get used pretty reasonably

[unborn smelt]

i basically never encounter them...

can't actually remember the last time someone used them in my presence

[rotund obsidian]

i mean, i think they suffer from the same thing that all decoys do, as well as fusees and flaregun

which is that they just devour toolbox charges if you're missing any

[unborn smelt]

yeah they do - but so does a missing consumable

and hey - decoy supply is a thing... right

[rotund obsidian]

+1 consumable is a good thing though

+1 decoy fuse? not nearly as good

[unborn smelt]

If they'd actually work well to break camping spots i think it would be really good

[rotund obsidian]

I think they work well if you also pair them with actual dynamite

I brought them for a while and they flush out rooms pretty decently after a real dynamite stick

[unborn smelt]

I mean i've also used pretty darn bad consumables or tools to great effect - but overall they just still aren't nearly as good as the alternatives

Basically what i think happens if they nerf the flash to hard - is we're all the way back at frag spam

[rotund obsidian]

idk i find myself literally just taking random shit for my 4th toolslot cause everything kinda bootycheeks

and i dont like traps

had a game a little over a week ago where me and a partner both ran alert traps and this mf literally walked into all 10 of them. Every single one.

was redskulled on his first death

[unborn smelt]

yeah - people refuse to check for traps

[rotund obsidian]

no like he walked into all 5 of mine and also his own 5

[unborn smelt]

oof

[rotund obsidian]

my partner did, to be clear

[unborn smelt]

yeah - still oof

traps require lots of coordination between partners

and even then they backfire often

great in a solo's hands tho

[rotund obsidian]

but yeah idk i just dont like most of the tools that'll eat my toolbox charges for minimal benefit

took throwing knives for a while and they're good but when one knife goes missing and eats a toolbox it hurts. still worth taking them but it hurts

bout to start being a flashlight gamer again tbh

[unborn smelt]

i usually just run throwing axes + derringer

not exactly the meta as i forgo chokes entirely but fun as hecc

had a game a while ago where i clutched a teamfight with 3 derringer headshots

[rotund obsidian]

i wish regular decoys just couldn't be resupplied from toolboxes, i would run those

[unborn smelt]

prolly one of the most fun moments in ma entire hunt career

[unborn smelt]

I think they just lost their uses with time and powercreep

back when they we're the thing you could use to silence horses with a hit to the head they werent that bad

basically throwingknives do everything decoys do plus a lot extra

[rotund obsidian]

meh, they still have some decent uses. I just feel bad using them early on to break lanterns or whatever because i know for a fact im gonna miss out on like, a medkit or consumable i need from a toolbox

decoys on those metal rooftops still catch people off guard tbh

[unborn smelt]

they aren't useless ofc

but you get so much more use out of most stuff

what hurt them the most, imo, was when they reduced the throwrange of decoys

[rotund obsidian]

fr like the electric lamp

so good

[unborn smelt]

electric lamp is kinda fun...

i like to run that for shits and giggles every now and then

[unborn dagger]

Electric lamp needs a rework or a complete removal since Crytek isn't willing to deal with early extractions on night maps and decreasing weather types to where it's just daytime 99%

[unborn smelt]

easy make it blind peeps for six seconds

[unborn dagger]

Flashbomb haters are gonna have nightmares about this one lol

[unborn smelt]

https://tenor.com/view/elliegato-flashlight-surprise-mask-blinding-gif-19821892

[brisk timber]

A dedicated decoy slot is what Hunt needs and what would really help boost encountering decoys way more often
As i started Hunt i often took glass shards or fuses and it was quite interesting to play mindgames like triggering a chicken coop from the other side of the compound covering my crouching a bit

But theres just other stuff thats more important actually which is a shame

People shouldnt have to decide for one over the other would actually open up the gameplay more

But like usual if one suggests any QoL-feature that makes the game a bit more casual friendly people dont like it 😄

[crystal plume]

@tranquil hill Kayako has not been use for quite a while now

Here's how to reach out to the official support:

#customer-support

[tranquil hill]

thank you

[next yarrow]

Throwing axes need a nerf more than anything else for this. The problem is that it's pretty much required to take knife/medkit/chokes in teams. It's hard to pass up on axes in the one slot you get with how much utility they provide. Getting one axe or two with frontiersman would bring them more in line with other options. Another solution is a dedicated medkit slot. They're basically required anyway, and having one more slot would leave more room for decoys to be used. Normal and blank fire decoys would likely remain niche without buffs, but decoy fuses are already good but underused.

A decent buff to blank fires would be to always sound like your slot one weapon

[little jackal]

or configurable

[late quartz]

Reducing the number of axes you get probably wouldn't be a big enough factor. You're already heavily discouraged from abandoning thrown weapons due to how resupplies from tool boxes work. Having two axes is certainly nice but 95% of jobs can be done with one, the second one acts more as a backup in case you massively fuck up.

Further still, even with axes out of the picture... people didn't really use decoys much before Light the Shadow. Between throwing knives, flare pistols, and traps decoys tend to be pretty niche and provide much less "guaranteed value".

Generally speaking I tend to be very cautious about the power curve, I see buffs as generally higher risk than nerfs, but in this particular case I think a better approach would be to make skipping out on your knuckles/knife as a much better alternative to nerfing axes.
Buffing assailant by decreasing stamina costs of throwing axes/knives while using it (and appropriately increasing its cost, say to 4/5 points), or adding a second trait to reduce the stamina cost of melee attacks with these tools seems like a much better approach. This way, with proper investment, a player could choose to completely forego their primary melee tool giving them a flexible tool slot.

In light of recent additions that give players alternatives to choke bombs, it's likely we'll see more options to counter burns in the future, meaning alternative choices may allow a second tool slot to open up in team play without any guilt or major opportunity cost.

[next yarrow]

I still wouldn't use normal decoys. I don't think anyone would. But I would use decoy fuses, and I would use blank fires with a buff to make them a little more believable.

The problem with the tool slot is that you absolutely need a melee weapon (and knuckle knife is generally better than the others) and a medkit. then for the other two slots axe and chokes crowds everything else out. If you don't bring axe or chokes you're going to think "I really wish I had brought axes/chokes" at least once during the match

I agree with buffing assailent but then immolators are going to be annoying

[late quartz]

I think any sort of deception tool will always struggle to be consistent.
They're fun and interesting when they work, but finding situations and actually executing counter-intel in shooters tends to be... a lot of effort and quite rare

Getting these tools specifically to be picked will always be hard imo, because most people are probably going to gravitate towards traps first and foremost

[next yarrow]

honestly all blank fires need is to be a consistent sound.

[late quartz]

Sure but you're always making some sacrifice no matter what melee tool you pick. With Knuckle Knife it's hellhounds etc. etc.

Immolators are annoying to kill with melee attacks from a primary/secondary weapon but... I myself would tank that inconvenience if it meant I could run tripmines without giving up another tool

Chokes definitely just need more alternatives imo

Something as simple as a carefully distributed choke ammo type on weapons like the Springfield that puts out fires but doesn't leave an area denial cloud could be a very elegant solution

Choke beetles are non-renewable and carry a significant opportunity cost. Choke bolts are wonderful but like... tied to one single weapon

[crystal plume]

@autumn stump Have you looked through the keybinds yet...?

[autumn stump]

I’m actually the dumbest person to ever exist

Or blind. Take your pick

[vital fractal]

Something tells me that Gen Kenobi is not being very generous and instead that link may be malicious^^^^

@crystal plume click on the link and tell us

[wanton imp]

yeah its a scam

[dark tree]

Anyone know a solution to what I put in #feedback

Is it something outside of my control

Maybe I have to uninstall and install it again or something

[brisk timber]

Thats exactly the problem why i think solution like a dedicated medkit slot is worse than a dedicated decoy slot. Opening up another tool slot people probably would tend to rather take any other tool over decoys again.
Things like poison/conc traps would suddenly way more common.
It would have the exact unwanted counter effect of my idea 😄

And i still really wonder why people are so against a dedicated decoy slot.

[late quartz]

Adding more stuff to the standard kit without any tradeoff is just a harder pitch to make

Underlaying that suggestion is the proposition that every player should be stronger than they currently are loadout wise

[brisk timber]

but ..why exactly? do people fear deception items or powercreep?

i mean if everyone has a base decoy slot nobody is inherently in disadvantage

[late quartz]

It's not about anybody being at a disadvantage necessarily

It would be like suggesting players sprint 20% faster or something

It's not a powercreep issue either, because that would necessitate something else becoming less valuable or strong

I don't even necessarily think you're wrong, your fundamental view is that more prevalent decepion items would make the game deeper and more interesting, which could certainly be true

But saying "players should be stronger overall in hunt" is something that people will just generally find hard to get on board with

[brisk timber]

Well in my book it would add another tactical layer
and its even better because its a tactical layer that promotes intelligent and creative play

so whats there not to like D:

tbh overall thats one of my ideas im most sad about its not very liked because as i started out hunt those items for some time felt like a core mechanic i really come to like in hunt
But than problems like tool slot scarcity, resupply problems and no cash from looting hunter because decoys are drained....
All those little things made decoy unfortunately very unattractive

[ivory bronze]

any plans to let us veto map types like rain or fog?

[brisk timber]

Not really. It was tested a bit with wildcards and then we went back to one queue without any options.
Since then theres radio silence regarding this topic. But crytek usually drop devupdate every few months.

Aswell as some of Hunts playerbase seem to like being forced into on queue
they think having no choice and get all randoms conditions is some exciting skill thing or smth idk
weird people

i rather have a queue where you could select preferences for condition or just play basic clear weather
or having the chance to adjust loadout after map start
the day is only so long and i dont really like being forced on some stuff
you can always extract but when empty servers are a frequent complaint i dont know if thats a wise thing
and its a bit dismissive on the players time

But thats me and my pov

[ivory bronze]

alright thanks. would be a nice system to have if it was similar to halo 3's veto. preview the map and if everyone in the lobby doesn't like it veto for a chance at something else

[brisk timber]

agree

[ivory bronze]

really the only map type i don't like is the rain. makes it really hard to hear anything

[brisk timber]

Just anything else than being forced would be nice at this point 😄

[brisk timber]

@zenith zenith i think what you mean is "conduit"

people maybe a bit confused by "connection perk"

[zenith zenith]

ok

I already made a small modification, sorry but my English is not so good. thanks for letting me know.

@brisk timber

[iron trench]

@autumn stump There is, my friend.. you just need to look at the keybindings..

[frigid folio]

It takes a bit of getting used to 😅 can't tell you how many times at the start I wanted to vault but forgot I separated the keybinds so I got killed 🤣 but once you do it, soooooo worth it imo!

[analog willow]

@prime ibex Sway is less about realism than it is about balancing the weapon against the other weapons in the game

[prime ibex]

It's more obnoxious to use sway as a coping tool for balance.

It's been a thing for a solid 6 years where devs think that sway is utmost required for some dumb reason.

It's actually nice to play games that have little to no sway. Games like Hunt treat it as if you've been drinking too much.

[analog willow]

If that was how Hunt worked, I think scopes would become more meta, and I'm more a fan of the mid range, scopeless combat meta myself

[prime ibex]

Idc if they split between low sway with irons and normal sway in scopes. There's only a few guns that actually have realistic and 100% normal gun sway, as for the rest feel like I got weak wrist syndrome.

[vital fractal]

What guns have “realistic” sway to you in game?

[prime ibex]

Lebel, Mosin, Sparks, Officer Carb, nearly all the pistols cause of awkward 3rd world gun holding.

[crystal plume]

Hunt used to actually have more sway but it was lowered when the focus was shifted towards leading shots with muzzle velocities being slowed down across the board 😄

And people complained about there being too little sway for a long time

[prime ibex]

I end up using the lot of the long range rifles at close to midrange cause of the sway. I'll try a few long range pot shots, but lately I've completely given up on long range sniping with either scopes or irons.

[dusky tapir]

Perks and crouching help with sway. Otherwise skill issue tbf

[sacred hearth]

How is there still no Bee Keeper skin?

[brazen shoal]

@iron trench 150ms should NOT be the ping limit, that is still far too high. max ping should be like 110, maybe 120. but tbh I'd even be fine if they made it 100.

[crystal plume]

That would lock out majority of EU from even US East, so I find it unlikely to ever be that low 😄

The goal of the ping limit isn't continental locking, but rather extreme cases where someone tries to play on servers on the polar opposite side of the world

[hot vigil]

Yet a lot of other people can do long range fights completely fine.
Might just me coming from old Hunt where sway was greater.

[wintry comet]

Honestly, with the number of Chinese players I've encountered on US East, I don't think the ping limit even "phones home" to the client, it just pings the endpoint.
Basically, if someone in China uses a VPN to Chicago and tries to connect to US East, I'm pretty sure the server "sees" the IP address as coming from Chicago, and then checks the ping to the Chicago VPN server instead of the Chinese player's game client in Beijing to determine if they are allowed to play on US East, and because Chicago is close enough geographically to the US East servers, the Chinese player passes the ping test even though they really shouldn't have been able to.

thoughts? #game-ideas message

[frigid folio]

I'm from OCE and get like 160 ping on US servers and I'm pretty sure Australia is further away from the US of As so they probably just connect regularly?

[wintry comet]

that might very well be the case, but in that case Crytek should definitely lower the ping limit by a lot

i just checked, im getting 210 to Oceania and 199 to Asia

meanwhile i'm getting 33 to US East, 58 to US West, and 117 to Europe

I think a limit of 130 would be reasonable?

[brazen shoal]

buddy, they already can, I on the west coast can play in ANY other region I want with the current ping limit. EU players shouldn't be able to play with US players, there should be continental locking, hell, there should be country locking.

[crystal plume]

I recommend keeping your expectations realistic 😄

[brazen shoal]

they are realistic, it's not impossible for them to implement these changes, I don't play with anywhere near as many european or chinese players on ANY other game. It's basically a guarantee in 5* and up lobbies that there will be at least one team of players from china. it's ridiculous, they play and talk extremely toxic.

[crystal plume]

It's not a question of if it's impossible or not to implement

It's a matter of if it's realistic to change it to be like that when looking at the bigger picture

Hunt isn't massive playercount wise and people underestimate how many players are needed for each split into queues without sacrificing matchmaking times/emptier lobbies

Country locking would be ridiculous when considering those factors

And even with regions, some generosity is required

Like OCE players, their servers are far emptier than others, they deserve to get full lobbies as well so they are allowed to play on the neighboring regions

[brazen shoal]

here's a solution, remove mmr entirely, everyone can be thrown in together, a game like hunt doesn't need ranks in the first place. OCE players get a pass, nobody else does.

[crystal plume]

Solution that considers all of the factors while trying to find a middle ground, or a solution driven by what you want?

[brazen shoal]

it fixes all the problems

[frigid folio]

I feel like removing MMR will cause more issues than fix tbh, There's already a lot of people who complain about getting put in with people far outside of their skill range. Removing even the currently iffy MMR thats in atm will just mean more people outside of others skill ranges will get put together making matches feel unfair

[crystal plume]

You think that entirely removing matchmaking, which was a highly requested feature from the community and added years ago after people complaining about the people they were facing, is an appropriate solution...?

[frigid folio]

like a group of 3 stars vsing a group of 6 stars. You just wouldnt get to see the stars, but the skill gap would still be obvious

[brazen shoal]

it hasn't changed anything, the matchmaking is still very unfair, which is largely in part due to the way the game determines your mmr, it should not be based on your kills/deaths, cause that makes it far too easy to rank up or derank. idk what they should base it on tho because as I said, hunt is not the type of game that needs ranks. the bounty hunt mode is not competitive enough to warrant them. a team wellspring mode would make more sense for a ranked mode.

[brazen shoal]

ranks would be determined by your kills, deaths, and whether or not your team won the wellspring. or it could just be determined by the winner of the wellspring and completely ignore the kills and deaths.

[brisk timber]

In a game where multiple parties fight for one or maybe two rewards deleting MMR would heavily sway odds in the favour of the higher skilled players. As a low skilled player you would probably face endboss like teams on the bounty more often then you would like. Making getting the hands on a bounty close to impossible.

[brazen shoal]

half the time the high rank teams don't even really care about the bounty, they'll take the fights wherever they can get them, even if that means letting the bounty team go.

[brisk timber]

Ok and water is wet.
Thats not the point.

[brazen shoal]

they mostly care about their K/D

[brisk timber]

So you then have high skilled players going manhunting 3* and you think thats a better outcome over how its now?

[brazen shoal]

they ALREADY DO THAT

[brisk timber]

i agree MMR is flawed dont get me wrong

[brisk timber]

I play this game every day and no thats not the case atleast in EU.
Atleast not on usual hours. Things are a bit different if you play in the middle of the night ofc but even than.

Disabling MMR is just not the solution here.

[brazen shoal]

Introducing a new ranked mode is the best fix, they could get rid of all the stupid unbalanced guns and consumables in that ranked mode so that it's more fair. creating a whole mode around it being ranked just makes sense

[brisk timber]

Wha...?
Nows the tools/consumables at fault?

[brazen shoal]

I had more fun when this game wasn't ranked all the time, even tho I still played ranked only.

[brazen shoal]

just the flashbomb really

[brisk timber]

no offense but that sounds like a you issue
hidde the MMR if you get worked up like that over some stars

[brisk timber]

that i agree tho. the flashbomb sucks.

but thats a topic of its own

[brazen shoal]

it's not about the stars, it's about the players. it makes no difference whether or not I run into a prestige 100 with a 7K/D in 3 stars or 6 stars. all ik is that I shouldn't be seeing them. but I'd feel a helluva lot better seeing them if Ik the reason I was seeing them is because we're all lumped in together instead of the reason being the shitty mmr/ranked system.

[brisk timber]

Logically that makes no sense tho.

[brazen shoal]

it makes perfect sense to me

[brisk timber]

I dont know what to say. Because it doesnt make any sense at all. The solution to seeing mmr abusing smurf like player is to abondon mmr alltogether so you see them everytime?

it sounds like the joker meme wanting to see the world burn

[brazen shoal]

it would't be everytime tho, you see, 6 stars don't make up the majority of the playerbase, there'd be a higher chance i get into a lobby with a bunch of former 3-4* than a lobby full of 5-6*

[brisk timber]

ah so the 5* can shit on the 3* now?

it just makes no sense

[brazen shoal]

I'm a hunter looking for a fun lobby. I wouldn't know what to do if I got in one.

[empty oasis]

Whole argument sounds like "I'm bad and want to blame something other than me"

[brazen shoal]

I could still shit on you tho

[empty oasis]

Promise daddy?

[brisk timber]

Maybe you should ask yourselfe whats your fun about then tho
If expect to dominate lobbies in this game then probably you put your own experience above the experience of others
In best case you win and lose the same amount, thats per design

[brazen shoal]

you betcha

[brisk timber]

Creating matches with out MMR in the first place is just pure randomness and this is only good for high skilled players wrecking everyone below them

[empty oasis]

Because from the way you're complaining, I doubt it

[brazen shoal]

I'm a 4* at heart, it's how I play, I don't run around with spitzer snipers, or avtomats, or even the nagant officer carbine. I like the fun to use fun to fight weapons. yes it's fun to dominate lobbies, bu that's not my reasoning. I genuinely think my ideas would make the game more fun for everyone.

[brazen shoal]

You can get arrested for that you know?

[empty oasis]

Lmao, no, I can't

[brazen shoal]

yeah you can

[brazen shoal]

it's illegal

[brisk timber]

Having all random lobbies doesnt sound fun to me tho 😄

[brazen shoal]

don't knock it till you try it

[empty oasis]

Sure...

[brazen shoal]

keep doing it, you'll see

[brisk timber]

i did, was there when turning SBMM off was a thing
encountered regular 6* dominating lobbies
wasnt fun

[brazen shoal]

never ran into that back in the day

[empty oasis]

Lmao keep doing what? This claim of yours makes about as much sense as your sbmm argument

[brisk timber]

@empty oasis dude can you just fuck off again pls. you adding nothing to a healthy convo except making it heated

[brazen shoal]

riding nuts without a license

[brisk timber]

just because not agreeing with someones points doesnt mean to get into a shitshow

this channel really needs some etiquette

[brazen shoal]

I like it this way

[empty oasis]

No

[empty oasis]

2005 would like it's insults back plz

[brazen shoal]

better hop off before the cops get here.

[brisk timber]

Allrite maybe you two get a room then.
peace out ✌️

[brazen shoal]

see ya later alligator

[worthy knoll]

Ah yes the solution that only benefits 5-6 Stars who have much more easy Prey in the Form of 3 Stars who can get farmed by These living aimbots. Awesome. Looking Forward to getting bodied even more.

[carmine needle]

Yep. I agreee the MMR/matchmaking needs work, but getting rid of the system and making it random for all is not the solution. I already see 5/6s in my games, and it's frustrating AF to lose game after game to folks who are far more skilled than I and my crew. I was fine with having games with random numbers of teams over games with packed lobbies full of folks at higher KDA/MMR than I, we usually played during peak hours anyway and rarely saw only 1-2 teams. I don't get why they changed this.

[little jackal]

nobody does

[flat sandal]

returning after a while and now i notice super hard that there is something that almost looks like blurry large film grain over foliage grass and sometimes terrain when moving. not sure if it just didn't register before but i can't unsee it and it's super annoying. Anyone else got that problem? I tried some setting but nothing seems to change or affect it. it's just constant noise basically

[vital fractal]

Yeah we really don’t need more 4 stars getting insta domed at 50m by uppercuts

[flat sandal]

I never see 6 stars and the skill gap between 3 and 5 doesnt seem to be that big as it's where i and many others seem to bounce around between

I think it's fog or haze that does it, not always happening i see now at clear night

[hot vigil]

Will pre-face this not as for or against any specific suggested changes to MMR system, while I do think it should be improved, this is mostly just me pondering
I mean, there will always the issue of "perception of fair".
So let us say we did do away with MMR altogether OR we fixed it to work perfectly.
Then people would most likely look at the enemy KDA when they die, "Oh that guy had a 1.4 KDA vs, my 1.1 KDA how is that fair?".
Ofc if we remove KDA numbers, people will look at total playtime.
And even we could remove the ability to see playtime, people would compare total bounty collected or some other statistic.
My point is there will always be something people will try to compare with and shift the blame of "unfair matches" or more aptly put, matches people are losing.
I'm a 1.25KDA 5-star, that can sometimes nosedive down to 3-star and at this point I'm not sure how a fair fight looks for me anymore.

[flat sandal]

well still a bit

[carmine needle]

True. However my issue is with how the system currently stands- sure, you can have good streaks and go from 3 to 5, then get handed your booty and go back to 3. I don't know the best way to adjust the settings, but when I'm in a trio made up of two 3* and a 4* and we play against teams of 5-6*, I have issues with "fair" as I'm playing against not just one or two but a whole lobby well above my paygrade. Or when I see those screenshots of a full lobby of duo 3s with one solo 6 mixed in. There is no reason to have such different skill levels together. Sure- folks will always find some issue with things, and complain about it. But I do think that the current MMR system needs an overhaul of some kind to better match skill levels up so that everyone has a good time

[vital fractal]

I mean we can always find something to nitpick but, in the end- a change to make the game fairer will make the game fairer nonetheless regardless of perception, a step in the right direction is still good

Besides, you can’t please everyone- sure a small difference might still be bemoaned but honestly? If the brackets were that small that people with tru 1.1 k/ds fought tru 1.4 k/ds, it would be worlds better than what’s currently in place 👁👁

Again, I don’t know why this game allows people like 3stars and some 4 stars to ever even see a 6 star in their lobby

And I doubt those lower MMRs appreciate the “quicker matchmaking” (is it really? Still takes a few minutes to find matches) to find themselves essentially in Hunter Deleter Simulator 2023

It really does feel like the MMR changes were just to benefit the upper MMR classes rather than a majority of the players tbh

[flat sandal]

were there mmr changes recently?

[hot vigil]

Very true, it was a weird move to do these changes.
But I also play europe, so I kinda think it was not made with my region in mind

[flat sandal]

I think Hunt is just really difficult to get nice MM for but there are some things they should 100% do away with, like ways to downrank so easily and lower MM for solos

It should probably be made more stable by being based on a certain window of games and ppl who vary too much should be made to play against each other wherever possible 😛

[empty oasis]

The easy derank I agree with but the mmr handicap for solos was fine before they "loosened matchmaking to promote full lobbies"

I'd rather have the longer wait time than the more than half a star brackets currently in place

[carmine needle]

Agreed. I'd like to know where most of the players sit on the MMR scale, as I'd think most are 3-4, and it does feel that the change catered to the 5-6s at the cost of the 3-4s. Which is wild to me. I'll happily admit I'm a 3* that on occasion gets to 4, so I am def not the most skilled by any means, and I'm not playing 4 hours a day trying to get better, I had/have fun in 3* lobbies with folks who are equally as bad as I am. So maybe I'm biased, but before they moved to "fill lobbies with anything from 3-6*", it felt much fairer and i was cool with not having a full lobby all the time

[flat sandal]

honestly lower MM for solos is a disaster. You play against ppl of lower skill and can self revive

plus you have tons of bonuses on top of that

if ppl kill you they rank up quicker and you derank quickly. It just mixes things up with respect to skill. just why?

[empty oasis]

Not really. Within a reasonable scale it evens out. If a solo wins because of self rez then that's on you.

Self rez isn't a good mechanic against people that think

[carmine needle]

^ yeah. My duo buddy and I never leave a solo not burned out

[flat sandal]

yeah that's one thing the other is the mixing up of MMR

you just shouldn't have that in a system like this

[empty oasis]

Again, the easy derank and the mmr range are issues. Solos in general are not

[carmine needle]

I don't mind the self rez solo stuff. I think smarter teams can handle that aspect fine. My issue is with the change from skill/mmr matching to filling lobbies regardless of skill

[flat sandal]

it is though because of what i just said

[carmine needle]

not following. what about solos do you have issue with?

[flat sandal]

it is easy derank and "uprank" for others => messing up the system

that they play in lower brackets

[empty oasis]

A 4 star-low 5star solo against a trio of average 3* is a pretty fair matchup

[flat sandal]

it's not even derank on purpose, it just happens per design in this case

that doesn't matter for the MMR discussion

[carmine needle]

The system is messed up due to lobby fullness being favored over skill/MMR matching. It's not just solos, it's entire teams that are massive off in skill.

[turbid hound]

Not really, but fairer than 5star solo vs 5 star team

[carmine needle]

^ yup

[flat sandal]

in EU i super rarely have issues with unfair lobbies when it come too MMR distribution

[empty oasis]

It is if the 3* even kind of work together. The easy wipes are when they turn it into multiple 1v1 battles

[flat sandal]

playing solo is honestly easy imo. you have a lot of strategies at your dispoal

especially third partying

[empty oasis]

That applies to anything in hunt though

[carmine needle]

Eh, can be said for teams too tho

[flat sandal]

it's different

[carmine needle]

Can sammich a team already fighting just as much in a team as in solos

[flat sandal]

if you ever played solo

[carmine needle]

I have indeed

[flat sandal]

like, playing solo sniper is super strong

[empty oasis]

I've got about 800hrs solo and 2k in teams. Yeah I've got an idea of how it works

[flat sandal]

you can do that in teams of course but does it ever really happen. rarely imo

[empty oasis]

any sniper is strong

[flat sandal]

and you don't think that there is quite a qualitative difference between playing solo and teams if you did it that much?

[empty oasis]

Coordinated team snipers are even stronger because you can 2 tap at stupid ranges

[flat sandal]

most ppl play randoms though

[empty oasis]

I think that before they loosened matchmaking solo was fine

[empty oasis]

No, no they don't

Most teams are premade

[carmine needle]

yeah. When we play trios I will pick up a sniper and hang back to support my guys (if not artillery-ing as a lancer). I have no issues with snipers- it's a valid game style. nobody owes me a specific game style, nor do I owe anyone that same style.

[flat sandal]

like in reality so it has not that big of an impact

[flat sandal]

how do you know that?

[empty oasis]

Hundreds of match screens checking if they say random or not

The majority of teams in a match are not random

[flat sandal]

what mmr are you playing?

[empty oasis]

3-low 6 depending on how much I've drank lol

[flat sandal]

are you being honest with me when you says you mainly see premade?^^

maybe it's becasue you play premade?

idk

[empty oasis]

Totally honest. Generally I see 2 of 3 teams premade in a trio match at least

Being in a random team doesn't increase your odds of seeing other random teams

Being random has no input on matchmaking aside from the small mmr handicap you get

[flat sandal]

yeah that may have an effect though, possibly idk

i see mainly randoms so its weird^^

[golden cloak]

#game-ideas message pretty sure you can already change inputs different from jumping and vaulting

[flat sandal]

you can and you should^^

[next yarrow]

I feel like most of the things people complain about solos doing are also strong in teams

[flat sandal]

of course, you could play as a team of solos (minus the solo perks) but in reality there is a difference nontheless imo

like, c'mon we all know it's tru 😛

how dare you

in all seriousness though, it seems strange to me to pretend that three ppl in a team behave the same way a solo does

[glad dock]

Yeah it’s much different the solo is at a significant disadvantage because they are one person not 3

[carmine needle]

lol. Yeah, I don't get how you think they have the advantage there. Of course they play different. They're a solo facing 2/3 players.

[flat sandal]

and they don't adapt to that fact at all^^

[carmine needle]

Who? the other teams?

[flat sandal]

not saying they have the advantage, though i do better solo then in teams

i'm saying they shouldn't get a mmr bonus as it messes with the system

[glad dock]

So do I but that is for other reasons other then mmr or solo perk buffs

[carmine needle]

Except it doesnt- you just said it, you do better as a solo, and thus go into higher brackets.\

[glad dock]

I’m better solo because it’s more freeing less people means i don’t have to coordinate or worry about teammate when I am doing stupid pushes or flanks are easier because it’s one person moving not 3

[flat sandal]

depends

if i get killed by lower mmr ppl i derank quicker

and on average i encounter lower mmr and vice versa

[carmine needle]

can do the same as a team tho.

[flat sandal]

plus self revive

okay i give up^^

[glad dock]

Solo is still at a significant disadvantage solo revive rarely works and it only works on other solos and uncoordinated or clumsy teams a team with necro is way more scary then a solo with necro imo especially teams of three

[flat sandal]

again, self revive is a problem there becasue you might get killed by ppl of a lower mmr repeatedly thus deranking thus becoming matched with lower mmr ppl even further

[carmine needle]

Sorry, I just dont get the issue with solos over teams here. The overall issue IMO is the MMR system and how they have different skills facing off against each other. I dont think solos really have an advantage at any point, even the bushwookies, as most folks don't just leave a solo alone unburned/convertinaed etc anymore.

[vital fractal]

I mean, they could just fix the MMR loss after the first death

Doesn’t negate the fact that solo’s who don’t necro-exploit are at a disadvantage already

[flat sandal]

yes, and what i am trying to describe increases that issue

well and also playing solo should be a disadvantage imo

[glad dock]

Always will be and I like it that way makes me get better at the game as frustrating as it can be

[vital fractal]

I mean it is, hence the extra rewards- although being solo vs 3 of the people of the same or greater skill is a ridiculous disadvantage

[flat sandal]

you should be good to pull it off not get tons of advantages to make it "fair". that's not really fair then is it

[carmine needle]

I'm so lost. How is playing a solo ever anything but a disadvantage lol

[empty oasis]

You really don't get many at all

[glad dock]

People underestimate the value of a single other half competent teammate

[empty oasis]

Double serpent range is all I can think of

[vital fractal]

Exactly, most of the time solo’s win is when the team is dumb enough to allow 1v1s

[flat sandal]

it's quite a few but that's matter of debate

[glad dock]

Double serpent range I actually think should be gone

[carmine needle]

which are?

[empty oasis]

I'm asking you to list any you can think of

[glad dock]

Encourages running away with bounties not fighting and that’s lame as hell

[carmine needle]

All i can think of are serpent (thaks for reminder) and self rez

[vital fractal]

But that’s the point of the game, the bounty

Push if you are so inclined

[flat sandal]

didnt play in a while. maily self revive, serpent, extended dark sight boost

[empty oasis]

Self rez is cancelled out by normal necro though imo

[flat sandal]

never

[carmine needle]

yeah. and any decent team is burning the hell out of a solo

[empty oasis]

It's not extended. It matches what the teams get

[glad dock]

Still a solo snaking a bounty and running is lame as hell makes for a not so fun experience especially if you are 2 teams fighting over the bounty if a solo takes it and runs whilst you are fighting you won’t be able to catch up

[carmine needle]

^ true. However, I love serpent as a duo team and stealing it from a guarding bounty team

[flat sandal]

it's anyway not my initial point. I don't have strong opinions on this here

[glad dock]

That though you have to at least get close

[carmine needle]

ESPECIALLY when it's one of the garbage concertina teams

true

I get that it's a play style. I just hate it

[empty oasis]

Just snaking a bounty from outside and then going "this mine now" in voip

Mmm those salty tears

[carmine needle]

exactly

[vital fractal]

It’s lovely isn’t it?

[carmine needle]

15/10 satisfaction

[vital fractal]

Or the classic “YOINK!”

[empty oasis]

They usually panic push too. Cherry on top

[carmine needle]

knowing they have to cut themselves out to get it

and being able to know where to watch due to the noise of cutting it

[vital fractal]

It makes me feel like a true Magpie

Thank you magpie, based 1 point trait

Because with serpent, you get the bounty

With magpie, you make it to extract

[empty oasis]

People sleep on maggie but since the buff it's great

[vital fractal]

Either way, serpent as solo is totally viable as is and does not need a nerf

In every case that the solo is able to grab the bounty, it’s because the defending team fucked up relatively badly or failed to secure it

[carmine needle]

agreed. I have no issue with a solo nabbing the bounty

[vital fractal]

I mean, there are teams that purposely do not grab the bounty to… bait people to walk in? But like, get mad that serpent is then used on them

[carmine needle]

that's on you for not grabbing it fast enough. To be fair, I've never had anyone steal it from us

I also enjoy this tactic as a serpent user

hey wait not that's not how you're supposed to do this

[vital fractal]

As for necro self revive

It’s honestly fine, just trap the body-

If someone trades in a team, their teammates just revives them

If a solo traded, it was game over

Seriously the amount of complaining I hear about camping a body, it’s like people purposely leave out equipment like lamps, fire, traps, poison, chokes

Literally anything to kill after a first down

And sure, resilience is pretty nice now- but if you’re that worried someone will get back up, you should invest in some insurance anyways through attention or equipment

[frail ravine]

Yep

[next yarrow]

I don't like how the resilience buff incentivizes long ammo even more. Make relentless a permanent trait and it's fine

[hardy coral]

Berthier marksman and uppercut precision are way better examples of variant bloat than the Vetterli Cyclone which is basically a new weapon.

Berthier marksman shouldn't exist whatsoever and the uppercut P didn't need to be added, especially so soon after uppermat.

[proud narwhal]

im still killing myself over the fact the fucking pax hasnt gotten anything except poision and fmj for YEARS

but no- MORE LONG AMMO !

[placid sleet]

Pennyshot Derringer 10/10

[hardy coral]

Good to see them using the special ammo types to balance other additions.

Since it can't pen wood.

[little jackal]

if only we could see it in this discord

[rotund obsidian]

I feel like magpie would be more relevant if conduit didn't also give 5 minutes of stamina on picking up the bounty

but ofc solos should take magpie for the extra darksight anyway

(on top of conduit too, so 7 and a half minutes of stam total)

[vital fractal]

They should give the LeFat pennyshot, putting it in suggestions

[rotund obsidian]

honestly i think it'd be a welcome addition, i'd take it just to get more rounds for barrel stuffing people or AI with

[rotund obsidian]

have to insert it inside your enemy's rear end for it to be lethal

[frigid folio]

@still wave good idea!! Then they can also just add in a setting where people can select if they see it or not (for the more gore sensitive people)!

[analog willow]

@grim sonnet Interesting idea #game-ideas message They could possibly use some other form of reward as well. Lots of possibilities. Maybe even some future questline stuff where you need to extract with a certain amount of darksight to accomplish a quest

[late quartz]

I feel like this'd mostly benefit server wipes, where you have an opportunity to loot corpses to regain DSB.

Not necessarily a bad thing I'd just be curious about why we'd even want to incentivize not using DSB in the first place

[marsh osprey]

If the game would kindly stop disconnecting us for no reason at all and then rewarding us with dead hunters because of your potato servers that’d be very much appreciated 👌

[empty oasis]

Did you really take a picture of your monitor instead of taking a screenshot?

[marsh osprey]

Yes I seriously did.

Watch closely, I’m about to do it again

Hunt’s servers are a joke

[karmic ivy]

I don't think you get disconnected for "no reason"
amused

[karmic ivy]

Is that why tens of thousands of players are Hunting everyday? Surely you jest.

Neither my friends nor I have any complaint with Hunt's servers. And I have been here for two and a half years.

[little jackal]

lucky you

[karmic ivy]

"tens of thousands"... "everyday"...

^
Lucky us

*probably not luck though 😉

[little jackal]

can't wait to see the reports from them all that they've never had any server issues

[karmic ivy]

Do you play games with bad/joke servers?

I don't....

And I don't think the tens of thousands do either.

[little jackal]

from time to time

[karmic ivy]

That is weird to me ^ Would drive me crazy.

[obsidian narwhal]

@hollow raft tbh, whilst i support your suggestion, the torch grunts are an easily ignored annoyance

just like you wouldn't shoot an immolator next to a fire barrel or in a place where you don't have visibility, i wouldn't do the same with torch grunts

[hollow raft]

The torch grunts are just one part of a bigger issue of Trials still being in the game for a Trials Rewards section but having been designed long ago
The dualies ones are frustratingly impossible, trying to headshot hives with nagant sile dualies

without taking poison damage

[brisk timber]

i managed to get all rewards. dont need every trial on 3stars

not great but not impossible

for completionists tho its shit

[subtle lichen]

#game-ideas message What about one of those old fashioned paddle steamers? That'd be awesome.

[analog willow]

You should ask the original poster. I'm sure they'd love to discuss their idea

[late quartz]

Sure I mean I just replied so it was clear what I was talking about

I figured since you pinged them they'd see my message too lol

[wary jetty]

Title: Noobs getting thrown into 3* might not be a good idea
Details: I think it's kinda fucked up that these two players (duo invite) were literally 1* playing their very first game (0 all stats for both) and they had to run into me, the 3* with the troll build, who nearly burned them to death. Not sure how SBMM could be tuned to try and prevent situations like this, but I think it is an issue regardless.
Video provided for context.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vBjcITy5pY

Idk if this belongs in the feedback channel proper

[carmine needle]

yeah, it should go in feedback proper

[wary jetty]

I'll post there as well

[carmine needle]

I think they toss them into 3* as most folks are midline, even at start. also not many 2-1* for folks to play against. the MMR system in place def needs some work tho

[wary jetty]

Probably yeah, but knowledge of the mechanics are another layer of skill with this game

So having them slammed in your face by other players could be kind of annoying

In other words, I feel bad : (

[late quartz]

I don't think you as a 3 star should ever feel bad about being an insurmountable challenge to another player LOL

You're not gonna be at that level due to a lack of game knowledge, I'll say that

[vital fractal]

I mean, its still an issue though- its like a 6* fighting a 3*, the level of difference is so big that some conscious leads to the same feeling

a 1* vs a 3* is a huge jump still, and shouldnt be part of the first experience of a duo in hunt

Unfortunately 1s are not protected anymore since I believe a 6* streamer managed to dip into 1 star after hours of deranking- breaking the idea that 1 stars are only new players unless I got memed on via lies on the internet (no such thing right?)

[late quartz]

The difference is not that extreme, no

Neither in terms of skill nor in terms of population distribution

A player who is consistently in 3 star after the beginning of their career is like... swimming around in the bottom 30% of the skill curve. New players don't benefit from being quarantined from any other player who has a better grasp on the game's mechanics and flow.

Keeping new players locked away from people who know what they're doing means they will develop weird maladaptive habits that will put them in an even worse position once they encounter players who know what they're doing. It's much harder to BREAK habits than it is to form them.

This is not a reasonable part of the bellcurve to keep people sectioned off LOL

The difference between 1 and 3 star is more similar to the difference between 5 and 6 star, and I'd argue it may be smaller because frankly even in 4 star people barely know what the heck they're doing, if you're consistently placing lower it's not like you have some hot strats or mechanical skill that makes you a meance to overcome.
Dysfunction and maladaptive playstyles can only make you so ineffective by comparison, where as the top 10% of players vs the top 1% vs the top 0.1% will each be a dramatic and marked increase in skill

Most players who just... come from any other shooter are going to naturally place into 4 star off the bat because click heads is transferrable and already puts you ahead of people in these lower brackets.

[vital fractal]

It may not be as extreme as 3 star vs 6 star, but to completely write it off IMO is wrong. Especially considering its very possible that the 3 star is a 5 star experiencing a bad streak of games, which 100% shouldnt be fighting 1 stars. Yes, every class should have exposure to higher skill levels to be allowed to experience higher tier gameplay and potentially learn from mistakes, but it should be balanced and fair too.

Unfortunately, Current matchmaking practices allow these sub 2300 MMR players to matchmake well into the 2700ish range- with this past weekend allowing for anecdotal evidence on my part of even higher, which is just unacceptable.

[late quartz]

Idk how to say this without mincing words but if you're actually in 3 star you're so incredibly ineffective in this game that there's very little further down to go.

New players probably don't benefit from playing with 3 stars, it's probably bad for new players to be put with 3 stars because they're so wacky and wild that it will teach them how to play the game wrong.

If new players are to learn how to play hunt and have a hope at becoming any good, they should be put in 4 star lobbies after a short period in protected newcomer lobbies.

From my observation there is no discernable difference in skill between players in 3 star and below. I don't play in these lobbies so all my observation is going to be from footage of others playing, but once you're that clueless it all sort of blurs together into a mess of not being able to play the game at a basic level lol

nobody's matchmaking is being degraded because of massive skill gaps within this population.

Totally agree that people in these brackets shouldn't be playing with 5 stars tho... obviouisly

People in the lowest 30% of the skill curve can't cope with people in the top 30%

[vital fractal]

That is fair, however, I was a solid 3 star player when I began hunt before making my way into 4 star, now I can start dipping my toes in 5 star on some level of consistency. At least on console, there is a marked difference between a 1 star/2 star, 3 star, 4 star, and 5/6 star

[brisk timber]

man i love how well you put your thoughts into words and its rarely i disagree.

[vital fractal]

Through my experience with these players, this has been my experience^^

[vital fractal]

Throwing 1 stars into 4 star lobbies would be seal clubbing from what Ive seen, and done. At least on console.

[late quartz]

I think 6/5, 4, and <3 are all fairly distinct (with blurry edges of course)

BUT KEEP IN MIND ALSO that star ratings are

Literally not used for matchmaking... at all... whatsoever

There are hidden real skill brackets based on MMR that vary in number and range per region LOL

So it's all just sort of magical background shit that we have no hard data on

[late quartz]

A TRUE 1 star player who EARNED that skill rating? Sure.

A new player who is statistically likely to be a 4 star player anyway? Nah. Losing when you're new is normal and natural, it's part of playing PvP games and it's a remarkably effective way of teaching people what works and what doesn't.

New players will lose, and that's good. It should not be prevented by treating them like they're destined to be incompetent and clueless. New players should be taught the mechanics via tutorialization, then taught the meta via GAMER NATURAL SELECTION™.

[brisk timber]

My experience as a seasoned CSGO player was just like that
Started out Hunt and my aim alone after i understood how leading shots worked carried me soon to 4 and 5 stars
Thats where i basically hover now
The first time in 3* basically teached me nothing and i even felt misguided
Everyone wanted me to play shotgun and rush mindlessly because playing slow was unfun for most people
It actually took me more time solo to unlearn to not pressure myselfe and that its okay to play slower and more careful

[late quartz]

Unlearning is so so so so so fucking hard man

Getting bad habits out of your head isn't like deleting a file, habits are literal meat circuits BURNED into your flesh, you can't just wipe them out you need to starve them and let them wither and die while carving out newer stronger paths

It's hard shit and it takes active effort and discipline and maybe most important it's no fucking fun

And most people play video games to have fun not to to prune their meat computers

[vital fractal]

I am not suggesting that new players shouldn't lose, I agree that mistakes are the best teachers if heeded. However, they need to lose in ways that make sense. The importance of pen, aggressiveness, sound, and other important Hunt aspects I find are actually pretty naturally emphasized more as you increase the MMR value of the lobby a player is in. However, Throwing that all at once at the player is overloading leading to a lot of players just deciding learning it is not worth it (funny 40% achievement statistic). A 4 star player is statistically the upper middle (upper 1st standard deviation) of the bell curve, but thats usually after some adjustment to how hunt works + average actual performance. Again, I really do think MMR volatility adds to this issue but at the end of the day I do believe some more separation in MMR is something worth looking into. I believe in easing players into difficulty rather than dumping them into the deep end, as eventually even players just fighting 1 stars as a 1 star will eventually find a "bad" habit land them into 2 star fights, where it wont work as effectively and lead to minor adaptations and then the cycle repeats. A subtle but long term growth pattern so to speak, but I only say 1 star v 1 star as an example.

[brisk timber]

Yea volatility is really a topic of its own Crytek needs to look at
Its problematic on so many levels

[late quartz]

leading to a lot of players just deciding learning it is not worth it

Hunt is a niche game, it's not for everyone. I've tried to introduce tons of friends to hunt and people usually quit because it doesn't gel with them, not because it's too hard.
Some number of players probably do quit early because it's too hard, but I find it extremely unlikely that its due to not having enough time to learn the game, and more likely that punishing low TTK games are just sort of hit or miss with people.

A subtle but long term growth pattern so to speak
I've never ever seen this trend in a competitive game. People in the bottom tiers most often do not gradually improve and become average.
New players suck and lose because they're new. The conditions which cause them to suck rapidly disappear as they learn the game's mechanic.
The conditions which lead a player with 300+ hours to play in 3 star are uhhhh... probably never going away. Short of some external pressure or MAJOR personal change (major investment into VoD review, active skill development, coaching etc.)

I just think the fundamental issue is that players in the bottom skill brackets aren't just generically easier, it's not like changing the difficulty in a singleplayer game. The way they interact with the game and its mechanics are just fundamentally different than players in higher skill brackets.

If skill brackets in PvP games were just like setting a game from easy to normal to hard to expert, I'd probably agree

[vital fractal]

Well, As I said, well matched matchmaking may make Hunt more approachable AND hospitable to the people who decided to take a chance on this niche game.

[late quartz]

Sure I agree, matchmaking could be better for sure

But not by making 1~2 stars play with fewer 3 stars lol

[vital fractal]

Also, I get that skill ceilings exist for everyone- not everyone will eventually become a 6 star, but in my own experience- people can progress significantly just by playing with similar skill players. In this case of Hunt, MMR stars tend to be really bad at showing what is similar skills as we both seem to agree.

[late quartz]

idk I've been pretty blackpilled here. I don't know if I've ever seen this sort of rags to riches progress after a player has invested significant time into a game

[vital fractal]

The fact that a 3 star is truly a black box is really upsetting to how to balance MMR

[next yarrow]

I feel like a reasonable number of people who are 3 stars at 300 hours will hit 4 star eventually if they keep playing

[vital fractal]

I mean thats literally me

Im bouncing between 4/5 commonly now, more 5 than 4 which is insane lmao

[late quartz]

If you start your career in low ranks you're way less likely to dig out than if you start in average ranks
If you rest in low ranks the amount of unlearning you need to do becomes somewhat insurmountable even with a lot of external help

[vital fractal]

But i used to be solid 3/sometimes 4

[late quartz]

Playing with similarly skilled players WHO ARE PLAYING THE GAME CORRECTLY, yes, I think you will gradually improve

But I think playing hunt in 3 star is just not the same game even remotely as playing in 5 star

So you're not gettign better at the same game

You have to mindwipe yourself and learn a new game

[next yarrow]

I agree but I also think aim can carry you over game sense to at least low 5 star

[late quartz]

YES true

You will not be in 3 star ever if you can aim

[vital fractal]

Thats where I disagree, the basics remain- its just the innate unique portions of hunt that are introduced as MMR increases

[late quartz]

You will just click your way out

[late quartz]

The problem is it's not about the basics

The basics don't matter, the minutiae are what matters. Sure you're still playing bounty hunt with the same mechanics in both lobbies, but the big big big X factor is other players

Other players dictate the tensions, the pressures, the pace, the meta. The basics are interpreted and interated with completely differently by players of different skill levels

[vital fractal]

It is though, if lower MMR players fail to do the basics, and you decide to learn how to work around it (via positioning, stealth, item management, item countering) you will work your way up into higher MMR where advanced techniques like pen, peeks, and such start becoming much more of an out come determination.

If the player decides to actually analyze whats going on, they will improve or at worst not regress.

[late quartz]

They're analyzing bad data

You're learning the meta for players who are playing weird

You're learning how to deal with situations using solutions that wont work against players who don't make those mistakes

[vital fractal]

Then when that data is removed when you are pushed up in MMR, you get new data to reanalyze

[late quartz]

Okay yes but that's not how peoples' brains work

Unlearning is really really

REALLY hard

[vital fractal]

Brain Plasticity is also really really innate

[late quartz]

Kind of? Neuroplasticity is the ability to form NEW synapses

The problem with synapses is once they're there, they're there

It's very hard to get rid of them

[vital fractal]

or adapt to changing circumstances

[next yarrow]

I definitely had a "hangover" period where I had thought to myself "hmm, some of these tactics don't work when I'm in higher brackets"
But also I noticed myself by oscillating between brackets

[vital fractal]

habits are hard, but not impossible to get over is my point

and its been proven

[late quartz]

yeah obviously it's doable but it's generally a lot more difficult than players are actually even willing to deal with

Most people are not out here grinding hunt, they're playing for fun

[vital fractal]

of course, at some point people gotta put effort into getting better, if not its a moot point

[late quartz]

I want to create a set of systems that allows the greatest number of players to most naturally find the path of least resistance

I don't want to set players up in a way that will require them to do extra work later on

I'd rather cut that extra work out by teaching them good habits first and skipping the unlearning lol

Cause most players will never do it

This just creates a biggere divide between people with large amounts of mechanical skill coming into the game and people who don't.
Players who can just... click head good will circumvent all Hunt's unique mechanics, while players with weaker mechanical skill will be left to stew in low ranks where they'll learn some weird doppleganger version of hunt where bomblance and cavalry saber are meta lul

[brisk timber]

Aswell as unlearning is also a time investment in an also already time intensive game
In case of Hunt its probably really best to just get pushed into the cold water so to say

Better to learn it somewhat right in the first place even if its a bit harder
Then to dwell in 1* lobbies for dozens of hours

[late quartz]

PLUS unlearning often means you have to suck for a while

Say your bad habit is that you're really crutching hard on melee or shotguns

You're really avoiding getting good with standard single fire weapons because your aim isnt great and shotguns work okay

[brisk timber]

Chainpistol is a very good example forming bad habits in players

[late quartz]

Forcing yourself to not bring a shotgun and rely on something new means you're going to have... no fun... for a long time... You're gonna spend hours and hours, dozens or hundreds of games absolutely sucking, getting demolished, losing games where you go "I know i could've done better AND had more fun if I just played my comfort loadout"

It's no fun whatsoever to purposefully step out of your comfort zone and lose tons of games that you could be winning

The delayed gratification of being a better player 30 hours from now isn't gonna motivate most people

They play for fun

[steel comet]

I always believed playing shotgun means getting better at dealing with many situations with your sidearm.
Since the shotgun itself won't have the benefit until you're pushing/defending.

[late quartz]

Presumably it could, and probably does in many cases

I'm just using this as an example ot illustrate the point

[rough pumice]

hello, tralala

finally

Please buff self. res closerange to 5 seconds, and debuff long range to 10-15 seconds depending on range

A child can see this is not balanced

and to those whom fell like self. res is OP, just don't write please. 1 vs 2 or 3 that can self. res each other, now that is OP.. so don't even....

[wary jetty]

I am late but you put way too much faith in this purely-transactional MMR system

[frigid folio]

Tbh the only difference I can tell between a 3 and a 4 star is 3 stars are just 4 stars that want to have fun. And 4 stars are people trying their best to climb the MMR. I enjoy playing with 3 stars more because of their unpredictability. You never know what they're going to do 😅 and it really makes the game fun. 4 stars have the same game sense/aim as a 3 star but are beyond predictable

Still fun to play against, just a lot more predictable

[rough pumice]

for sure 3-4 star lobbyes are more3 fun than 5-6 star sweet lords.. All praise the 3-4 stars, they are the real stars 😉

[wary jetty]

I'm not interested in climbing

Nor do I care about KDR

I care about reducing demoralization, which means I don't want to sweat

[frigid folio]

This! This is what's needed in hunt, like I'm fine with someone beating me because they were better either at the time or just in general. But when they have to be a sweat lord to get a kill/win it just ruins the game for people who are there to have fun 😞

[wary jetty]

Honestly

[wary jetty]

I think you can have fun even with SBMM, it's not 100% a mindset issue but the way you think of it affects how your time will go tremendously

Because if you're really looking for a W then it will escape through your fingers

And you will be in agony for no reason

The funniest shit is when I bring dual fire crossbows into a match, people kill me, and the fire bombs are right there to burn me with

But they haven't actually secured the kill at all, they haven't bothered to trap my corpse, they just throw a firebolt

If I am just shitposting with loadouts that can backfire, it's a fun way to learn how to not fuck up

[frigid folio]

I'm mostly just there for kills/deaths and laughs! Like sometimes I get a bit annoyed at myself when I die because I didn't do as well as I could have hahaha and sometimes get heated in the moment 😅 but as long as everyone is having fun!

[wary jetty]

P much

I'm about to try and adapt my meme loadout for duo/trio randoms

Pyromancer support

My loadout slots are full, I need hunters to die but they just will not

[frigid folio]

I've been running dbl poison crossbow a fair bit lately with derry for emergencies 😂

[wary jetty]

My fire crossbows are precious

I must get kills with them

[frigid folio]

There was a stage where I was running quartermaster with 2 dragons breath spectres 😅😂😂

I felt so bad one time when I killed a guy for the first time in a spawn fight

And saw he was red skilled 😅

I'd managed to burn all their health off before killing them once

[wary jetty]

Fire weapons are the premier solo removers

If you catch teams before they can grab bounty they're like

"well now what do we do"

when their friend lies there on the ground red-skulled

The "make your enemies play worse" meta

[frigid folio]

It's definitely a fun load out to play with and against hahaha

Sometimes incredibly annoying to play against 😂 but afterwards definitely felt like fun 😄 just annoying to watch your health bars disappear hahaha

[wary jetty]

If people want to be cool with me and talk then I usually don't pursue a team wipe

If I fight with them at all

[queen jungle]

@atomic ferry Like the suggestions, but medium or compact ammo guns are needed rather than even more long ammo rifles tbh

[atomic ferry]

Looking for them to...
These two I put there because game miss German guns

[empty oasis]

I mean, the dolch is german

[atomic ferry]

Yeah... And C96 is German... But it only these two guns

[empty oasis]

. . . . the dolch is the c96

[late quartz]

purely-transactional MMR system
All MMR systems are "transactional". Two players or groups of players with relative skill ratings compete and gain/lose rating based on the difference between their ratings. This is just... how MMR works. I'm not sure what a "non-transactional MMR system" even is?

I'm not interested in climbing
Nor do I care about KDR
Valid, I think stressing about this stuff is pretty toxic and just ends up giving you brain worms. There's no benefit to climbing in Hunt tbqh, because in all honesty, I completely agree that playing in 5 star or above is less fun.

It seems like what you're saying, ultimately, is that you don't care that much about winning... and that's fine? If you don't enjoy the game while playing a hard meta or "sweating" as you call it that's honestly great. Hunt isn't a "real competitive game" in my opinion and much of the enjoyment is going to be in offmeta play. Treating this game like an esport is deranged in my opinion.
However, if you're not playing to win, it's pretty hard to claim also that you "have the same level of skill" as a player who can consistently perform better than you. You can still play off meta and also play to win.

Herein lies is the issue; players' passive or "natural" skill will vary even if not playing to win. A player with very strong mechanical skill will still win more with a meme loadout than a player with weaker mechanical skill. Conversely a player with greater mechanical skill will still land higher while not playing to win.

The difference in skill between a 6 star and a 5 star is often going to be skill, but it will also often simply be a more loss averse playstyle. The difference between these skill rating is more often going to fall down to whether you choose to play strictly on-meta or not. Many (not all) 6 stars would likely not maintain that skill rating and drop to 5 star if they were to stop using scopes/shotties or 3 stacking, for example.

It seems like you agree with others when they say that this same difference is what separates 3 and 4 stars, that 4 stars are simply playing to win and 3 stars care more about wacky cowboy memes, which may be true. While I hold no judgement against playing for memes, I do still believe that more or less fits perfectly into my broader point about 3 star play being dysfunctional, teaching bad habits, having a completely separate meta from the rest of the skill curve, and that it's a bad place for players to learn the game assuming we want new players to play to win.
Think about it like this: if you don't play to win, you can easily just drop deeper because you will naturally lose more. If you play to win, grinding your way up to average skill level out of memesville as a new player is going to be a much more laborious task

[brisk timber]

I would love to see one of the Mauser Gewehr but i think an interesting twist would be
to just take the Mauser Gewehr 98 and then make it spitzer only.

In this time spitzer ammo became the standard and having another 130+ high damage rifle wouldnt be so great

[hot vigil]

Dunno man, we starting to have less and less western weapons and just slowly becoming WW1 shooter.

[empty oasis]

Yeah, it's losing the original feel for sure

[carmine needle]

Agreed. As much as I dislike moving from gothic south to colorado (maybe for new map), I do hope it means we go back to more western vibes for weapons and new hunters

[empty oasis]

I doubt it. Too many people begging for 1900's+ weapons

[carmine needle]

will see. I'd rather they keep Showdown western/gothic southern and create Hunt 2 or something that goes global/ww1 if they want to go that way. but would prolly be the end of HSD, since live service

but agreed, i doubt it

just be sad to see the feel of the game get corrupted with stuff that isnt era true

sure, we have dolche and avto, but can kinda look around the incorrect time stamps by calling them prototypes or something... but the more they add from ww1, the harder it is to think of them that way

[hot vigil]

1880 Wildcard when?!

[unborn smelt]

I mean its not really meant to be a western shooter either

[carmine needle]

then what is it supposed to be? I always thought it was a western gothic horror shooter, no?

[unborn smelt]

It sure has those western guns, but it is set very much at the point in time where those aren't state of the art anymore

[hot vigil]

Dunno, if it walk like a cowboy and "yeehaw" like a cowboy.

[unborn smelt]

Its set directly at the beginning of where smokeless powder and "modern" repeating weapons start taking over

[hot vigil]

It is not a stretch to say that most people know Hunt as the "Cowboy" shooter

[carmine needle]

Sure, but also it's set ina filthy poor grunge region where they have to smuggle guns in, yeah, they have gunmakers bringing in prototypes and such, but also the easiest guns are the ones already common... which would still be your trusty cowboy guns. Unless we get an international gunrunner, having boatloads of foreign weapons is odd to me. I get the region we are set in is techically not "cowboy region" and that we are getting out of that era, but the overall feel of the game is still very cowboy at heart.

We have dudes still wearing civil war stuff after all...

[hot vigil]

And by that logic Red Dead 2 ain't a cowboy game because it is set in 1899.
(I do know some the themes of that game does evolve around "the dead of the wild west").

[unborn smelt]

Well that doesn't change that Hunt is set kinda perfectly betwen that, end of "post civil war" wild west and WW1 period.

And thematically it doesnt concern itself with wild west at all

[little jackal]

a cowboy game where you can't even ride a horse 😡

[hot vigil]

But Crytek should understand what draws people into Hunt and not any other more modern shooter.
A lot of people (including myself) got into Hunt bc of the "every shot counts".

Due to slower fire-arms

[unborn smelt]

I do agree, to an extent

But don't see how a spitzer only rifle would change that

It's not like Spitzer is overly spammy or oppressive

Nor overly forgiving on limbshots

[hot vigil]

Just quickly see that as becoming a stricly better winfield then.

[unborn smelt]

Why would it have the Rof of a winnie tho?

Or the ease of resupply, or perky like levering

[hot vigil]

If it doesn't have a high rof, why choose it over a Krag or Mosin?

[unborn smelt]

Maybe because its cheaper yet still good at range

[hot vigil]

That should be the Berth tbh

[unborn smelt]

Still cheaper than that

[hot vigil]

As I said SHOULD be the Berth aka make Berh 300 dollars

Think that is my best point to claim, the Long ammo rifle space is already clogged now, so there is very little room to actually make a new rifle fit in.

[unborn smelt]

Yeah no...

Berth is above 125 dmg long ammo rifle with a respectable Rof

No reason to be that cheap

[hot vigil]

Dunno, still not that much cheaper than a Lebel or Krag.

[unborn smelt]

Yes - because people didn't really care for most "cowboy game" guns and just spammed mosins instead...

Thematically fun stuff was usually simply overshadowed by people trying to play overly competetive

[hot vigil]

Well that is because the Mosin is really fucking good

People do care for cowboy game, but they also wanna win

I love the Pax, but it is really hard to justify picking that gun now bc of other weapons dominating it.

[worthy knoll]

"Given the opportunity, Players will optimize the Fun Out of a Game"

• Soren Johnsson

[unborn smelt]

Absolutely agree

[unborn smelt]

I know - but that makes it kinda hard to justify not adding cool new stuff where people may actually use it because "cowboy game" which many just choose to rank lower than "wanna win"

Still think its also very valid to say Hunt has no obligation to keep interesging guns of the period out because "cowboy game", seeing as its not really cowboy themed - having nothing to do with thesoirit of pioneering side of things, nor are those guns state of the art in hunts setting

[hot vigil]

Well, that is because of the logic landslide of modern weapon out-performing older weapons, which makes sense ofc.
But it still means that due to that, you get a group of weapons, which is rather large that get throwing in the dirt.
It is Crytek choice to introduce modern weapons to Hunt and it makes non-modern weapons even worse.

Also looking at artwork, you mostly see "western era" guns.

Old as well as new artwork

[karmic ivy]

I think its worth pointing out that those guns have more history attached to them than JUST western expansion.

[hot vigil]

In what aspect? :)

[karmic ivy]

I don't think I understand your question. Aspect?

[hot vigil]

You said they had more history attached to them than just the western expansion.
So tried to ask in what? But didn't wanted sound like I didn't trust you, I am just curious :b

[karmic ivy]

Well look at it this way.

A lot more was going on than just cowboys and western expansion.

A whole country's worth of history

not to mention the nearby countries that influenced us.

Another way to say it is this...

More people than JUST cowboys used these guns.

[hot vigil]

Ah yeah for sure :)

[late quartz]

This is probably the most important point here.
Aesthetics aside, because obviously the game has always had a mix of more modern weapons alongside older ones (obviously with a heavy skew towards the latter), there is just a somewhat finite amount of design space for new weapons. This is much clearer with shotguns and pistols right now, where new additions seem to invariably step on toes and end up making the arsenal feel messier and more clogged up than anything else.

There are only so many ways you can tweak base stats before you either get a gun that falls far enough outside of the power curve as to be largely unused or the new meta.
One of the most impactful stats is RPM, and Hunt's core design doesn't really allow you to play with it all that much before problems start to crop up. We're already... sort of in that territory where all the valid ground has been covered IMO

[vital fractal]

Yeah, it seems all the new weapons added now tend to use an improved RPM as their specialty which kinda pushes the average RPM of a loadout higher than it was before which skews the pace at which fights in hunt used to be at

Then the variant bloat comes into play, like bruh berthier marksmen- why?

[late quartz]

Low RPM weapons can be a lot of fun and that's what makes Hunt really stand out to me, it reminds me a lot of games like Quake or Tribes where rocket launchers were a core part of combat.

Low RPM weapons are... not that fun when the other player gets to miss 3 time for each shot you take, where a dude spamming at you causes massive aimpunch leading to you (through no fault of your own) missing a vital shot

At some point if you want to perform well you sort of have to join the trend and abandon what makes the game specual, it becomes less and less appealing to get the gameplay that brought you to the game in the first place since its so out of meta

[vital fractal]

Yeah, I noticed that most players rely on high rpm weapons to carry close quarters combat

Fanning, Dualie compact ammo pistols, slate, etc etc

[late quartz]

I'd rather play a version of Hunt where everybody and their dog is playing uppercut as their sidearm rather than spitfire

It's just a better game lul

Is the uppercut stronger overall? Obviously yes. But it's stronger in a way that lends itself towards emphasizing Hunt's unique gameplay

[hot vigil]

It's an arms race, I would love to have Pax for my shotgun and it used to be my go-to for both shotguns and Martini-henry.
But unless I take fanning it feels like I'm playing at a disadvantage.

So now I use spitfire and new army way more.

[vital fractal]

Yeah, it really is a subsequent result from the power creep of High RPM weapons

[carmine needle]

@sick wind I think they could do both BB return for special events, or do a 2 week quest event that has one or two of past event skins return. Allows new players a chance at old skins, gives another reason for folks to play, and gives folks a reason to spend BB/$$ on stuff- another income source for Crytek.

But I agree, not having old skins return after YEARS of them being gone (looking at you as the crow flies Shrike), makes me sad, as I did not play during that time, and I'd like at least the chance to get skins before my time

[hot vigil]

I have like... 90% of all event skins and I wouldn't mind if people got access to the skins I have.

Like I had my fun with them for years, why shouldn't other :)

[carmine needle]

Yeah. I don't get this stance from Crytek. Have them rotate over time- sure, put time between event and quest or purchase-ability, but don't just remove them forever. I really only want shrike and the skin for the terminus, but it would be cool AF to see old event hunters, weapons, etc return. And if you already have them, you get a free hunter/XP/weapons etc

[broken musk]

Getting free hunter, xp, or weapons would be such a underwhelming reward for people who have the event skins in mind

[late quartz]

As long as it's made clear initially that skins will come back, I don't see an issue.
If events are sort pitched under the guise that you're getting exclusive shit, whether its explicit or implicit, that should remain the case forever. Otherwise you're double dipping, you're exploiting FOMO to get people to pay into your battle pass and grind the event and then reselling good that you manipulated people into buying initially with FOMO

It should be clear at the time of an event whether or not you need to worry about missing an exclusive item.

[carmine needle]

true. I agree that battlepass stuff that was paid for should stay behind that event

since it was before my time, did as the crow flies have a battlepass?

[late quartz]

No

[carmine needle]

I dont recall it for traitors moon, which was ending right as i started playing

[late quartz]

Personally I do see a lot of value in exclusive items. I don't think they need to be in the game, but if they are in the game they should remain that way (again, even if it's only IMPLIED that they're exclusive)

As the Crow Flies was a brutal, grueling fucking grind and when I use its event skins I do feel some level of like...

Idk man that's like 65 hours of bullshit I'm never getting back and I'd be fucking pissed if some guy who got the game in 2023 could just skip that experience

I would have never ever ever done that shit if I had known that i could just wait 2 years and buy it or get it in a less nightmarishly shitty event

[carmine needle]

That's fair. I do not want to detract from the OG event. But also, from a selfish angle, I want to be able to earn the shrike myself, and I can't rewind time

[late quartz]

Yeah. I definitely see both sides

[carmine needle]

it's kinda sticky ground

[late quartz]

I think this is an industry wide problem and the solution is transparency and consistency from developers

Apex legends is a great example. in 2021 they put out a public statement that said, more or less "All battle passes prior to this season will remain 100% exclusive, as that's what they were sold as, but all battle passes going forward may have items resold in the future".

Most event skins return, or are added to the lootbox pool. Because it's clear that nothing is really gone forever the FOMO is dramatically cut down.

[carmine needle]

Yeah. I honestly don't care for event exclusive stuff when there is no chance of that event happening again. Like I said above, you could run the event, then bring the skins back years later (not ALL the skins, select 2/3) and run a mini quest or event that would let new players get a chance at it

[hot vigil]

Dunno, Crytek have peddled back on a lot of other things.
And this is just a change that would be net-positive for most people.

[carmine needle]

I wouldn't even mind if they were put behind a BB barrier like DA was

[hot vigil]

That said then they shouldn't called it "exclusive forver" going forward.

[late quartz]

An alternative I like a lot of reskins/recolors of event skins, that way it's clear who had the original, but new players still get access to a similar item

[carmine needle]

True. In a way, Nola's Screw is my shrike, and i don't mind the skin

[late quartz]

Keeping a specific item exclusive but offering similar alternatives going forward, then making it clear that all future skins are non-exclusive would be an ideal solution imo

[carmine needle]

chuh. Violet did say Plague wouldnt come back, but they could drop something similar... which, if we are getting a butcher hunter, i assume the Scrappy hunter (maybe the DLC one coming soon) would be that

[hot vigil]

I mean, "Event Exclusive" doesn't specify which event

[late quartz]

I mean, we should hold companies to their word? idk what to say, if they backpedal we ought to bitch at them over it lul.

As for who it benefits, personally this isn't a purely utilitarian issue. It's an issue of fashion and aesthetics, nobody's gameplay is being RUINED either way. It's two groups of people with directly contrary desires, I think people who've been manipulated and exploited into participating in predatory events shouldn't be double-screwed so that some people can buy a skin they want.

I think not having a skin is a lesser evil than being scammed into buying a product under false pretenses.

[carmine needle]

figuring the event paid battlepass stuff is gone forever, you can still rerun the free skins under mini events or quests on the rare occasion- have a wild card that replicates that event during the quest duration even.

Then offer variations on popular but gone forever skins, with the permanent chance to get them always available

[late quartz]

Personally I think the earlier free events were actually worse in terms of exploitation than the new ones, because of the reliquary system and the way grind times were artificially inflated to push their sale

So

As The Crow Flies, Light the Shadows, and Traitor's Moon are probably this games most predatory events

[carmine needle]

ah, I have no say in this, before my time

the grind on serpent was horrendious, so i can only imagine something worse than that

[late quartz]

Basically the events were relatively short, free, and mostly just a "nice to have" thing, Halloween, Christmas etc.

As the Crow Flies was the first "major" event like we see these days, and the grind was legendarily fucking long. They massively massively bloated the numbers to encourage players to buy one time use items that increased your event point gain, these were stackable and party wide.

[hot vigil]

To be fair most people who got the skins have played and had their fun with them.
Also the Scrapbeak event was free, so ain't like people paid for it.

[late quartz]

You didn't need to pay to get access to event items but they made the grind incredibly unreasonable to pigeonhole you into buying boost items

[carmine needle]

yeah, i recall that from serpent

[late quartz]

This isn't how exclusive items work, you don't "have your fun with them", they become more valuable, prestigious, and coveted as time goes on. It's not less painful to have them recirculate later, it's MORE painful because something rare suddenly becomes worthless

[hot vigil]

It already have zero value

[late quartz]

False

They have social value

[hot vigil]

Literally ZERO value

They have projected value

[late quartz]

If they had zero value nobody would care about having them

Value =/= monetary resale value LOL

[carmine needle]

looks over my hoard of stolen Shrikes yeah, no money value

[hot vigil]

Okay, then "I want to be the only one to have it" is straight up just egotistical.
Like it benefits no-one other than people who just happened to play Hunt around that time.

[late quartz]

Welcome to human nature

Where rare things are coveted

This is the product that people are offered, this is why people have FOMO

It's only an issue when you scam people into grinding/paying for something under false pretenses

[hot vigil]

Okay, let us try turning off the lizard brain and just be nice.
Say "okay, I have had this for long time, but if people want to support Crytek and buy previous FREE event skin for BB, then I cannot be too bothered about it".

[carmine needle]

I still stand that the FREE events should return, the skins with them as well, in some capacity. Unless they said ATCF/TM/LTS are gone forever, i see no reason to not bring them back in some way at some point. BB or quest or minievent

[unborn smelt]

scamming would imply doing it maliciously...
If more people just don't want that FOMO, and they react accordingly that's not the same as scamming people

[late quartz]

Or, alternatively, lets turn off the lizard brain and be nice.
Say "Okay, I don't have this event item, but the people who do have it worked/paid to get it and there are plenty of other skins i can buy or obtain instead"

It goes both ways

[carmine needle]

I'd be okay with them bringing back a variation over the OG skin as well

[late quartz]

Nobody NEEDS the skin, both groups will be unhappy if they don't get their way. One group already got kinda shafted in the first place, I don't think they need to tank a second shafting.

I don't have the serpent moon items because i was totally burnt out at that point from the previous nightmare events. I'd love some of those items, but I understand that I probably just wont get to have them and that's... not the end of hte world.

[hot vigil]

Except that we talking about a digital skin that already thousands already owns. Not like I will bothered that another thousand owns a skin I grinded for during an event.

[late quartz]

If more people just don't want that FOMO
?

"Just be immune to predatory business practices" isn't a very good take

[late quartz]

It's fine that you don't care, but other people do. Nobody is more right in their feelings about whether or not it matters, it's a subjective preference.

[unborn smelt]

Not saying "be immune". But i'd say doing the thiung that's good for more people and the generally nicer thing to do is a pretty valid good take.

[hot vigil]

Okay, but I assume more people don't care/want a skin than there is people who have a skin and care that others could get access to them.
Shouldn't we try to appease the majority?

[unborn smelt]

As is "hey lets drop the (quote) predatory practises for better ones..."

[late quartz]

Yeah as I say, exclusive skins are generally bad and should not be a thing going forward. Skins that are already implied to the exclusive should probably remain that way.

We have a great deal of evidence that speaks towards the effectiveness of FOMO business practices and how it affects people, PARTICULARLY people who are neurodivergent. It's not something that people "choose" to care about, it's something that is employed to exploit human weakness.

[brisk timber]

tbf my point of the Gewehr 98 have only spitzer was because the long ammo space was already bloated with all those high damage guns creating the long ammo meta. Im not a fan of just bringing another rifle over say a Pax Buntline. But if it has to be a long ammo like a Gewehr then with a twist

And i also can not get behind the "Cowboy" theme thing
David has stated in a dev interview that he wants this game to be a global thing, a mix of cultures
And i totaly feel thats way better than just cowboys any day

[late quartz]

I don't assume that, I assume the opposite. Both are assumptions.
But either way, no, we shouldn't appease the majority necessarily. Sometimes that's a good value to strive towards, but in this case again I think that victims of predatory business practices should not "take one for the team"

I think not having a skin is a lesser evil than being lied to and manipulated

Crytek should "take one for the team" and not make exclusive skins

[carmine needle]

I grinded all of Serpent. I would not at all be upset to see the free skins that I slogged hard to earn return- Hell, if they brought a paid minivariation of the paid battlepass event skins too, that's fine. I want everyone to have a good time. I dgaf about the "rarity" of the skins I own, because I enjoy them for me, and why should I take that from someone else, just because I played before they did?

[unborn smelt]

I'm very aware of the effect of FOMO. But i simply don't agree with "I've fallen for it so lets stick to a bad decision"

[hot vigil]

They were already manipulated to begin with.
And dunno, maybe seeing """"exclusive"""" not being such can actually be healthy wake-up call for some people.

[unborn smelt]

Now yeah i think it shouldn't be as easy a buy a past event skin

[late quartz]

Doesn't that feel a little victim blamey ._.

"Lol should've just been smarter and not been scammed by the big corporation"

[unborn smelt]

but i'm a fan of making them available in for example the timed Questlines like we have had some already

[carmine needle]

Oh I'm not meaning just buy them outright, youd have to earn them. But bring them back in a quest line for 2-4 weeks or something.

[hot vigil]

Maybe, dunno, it is better to encourage FOMO mentality to those victims and say their patterns are valid and healthy?

[late quartz]

So, again, I'm totally in favor of no more exclusive skins, all future skins being returned at a later date, and recolors/reskins/variants of old event skins that were implied to be exclusive coming into the game so newer players can access Plague Doctor 2.0 or whatever

Give him a little tophat, boom it's probably ethical

But reselling exclusive skins that people were manipulated into getting feels like a completely unnecessary step in moving away from this evil business practice

It feels like an extra little evil thing we're doing on the way out

"Now we get to profit a little more on exclusive skins before we end them"

[hot vigil]

Not everone was manipulated into buying those skins/event/boosters tho.

[late quartz]

Okay?

Are you denying there was an intentional effort to manipulate people using FOMO?

If not, why does it matter

[hot vigil]

Dunno, I feel it is not right to use "hyperthetical victims of FOMO" as a excuse for keeping something for oneself.

[little jackal]

ah, plague doctor talk, my favorite. People willing to dive into endless discussions just to get a skin are making diagnoses.

[brisk timber]

I dont understand why anyone would hold onto the limitation of any digital good
its so alien to me
tbh i think it always boils down to ego

[hot vigil]

Basically the same for me.

[brisk timber]

Prestige or being proud of some fictional thing

feeling elite

above others

I have that skin. You dont.

[late quartz]

Yes

[hot vigil]

Literally benefit no one.
And it is just money on the table for crytek

[late quartz]

If that's the product being offered it would be a scam to recant it later on lol

So either don't make those products (my preference) or don't recant on it later

[hot vigil]

Getting you skin taken away would be a scam.
But letting other access a good that you had access too 2 years ago ain't a scam.

[late quartz]

lol

[carmine needle]

Free* a free good

I think that's where I get the most annoyed by that stance.

[late quartz]

If part of the product is a guise of exclusivity, yes, it is a scam. Having the skin is not the only think that was being offered when something is offered as exclusive

[carmine needle]

where was it ever said to be exclusive?