feedback-discussion

[late quartz]

Bad move

[brisk timber]

also trait and consumable slots already are very limited - more additions over times doesnt help in that regard aswell

[late quartz]

They're definitely too situational and niche to use as a part of my loadouts regularly

[stark fulcrum]

I mean just make a more silent beetle with only the function to see not explode

[late quartz]

Yeah I'd take a faster, quieter beetle over the current options

[brisk timber]

Also keep in mind

solutions should be viable for teams but solos aswell

Beetle is very fun tool in teams

but hardly of use as solo

[late quartz]

Well, here's what I'll say here

I don't think it's unreasonable to say that some loadouts will lack the tools to tackle some situations. I think part of Hunt is specializing your loadout, you can't have ALL types of utility and firepower, so you need to choose what situations you most care about countering.

I don't think it's NECESSARY for players to have more intel by default in Hunt. I think the option to bring more intel-focused utility is sorely lacking, but I don't think it's something that needs to be standard for the game's health.
I think players who are not adequately prepared or adequately careful should still be caught off guard and outplayed by other players who work to surprise or ambush them.

[brisk timber]

hm fair

[late quartz]

Compare this to something like throwing weapons, they're extremely valuable in Hunt, but not necessary. There are other tools that players may prefer like traps, but I personally find that the utility of clearing AI quickly and quietly has a greater impact on my ability to perform well.

This sort of intel tool may be a mainstay in your loadout because you seem particularly sensitive to this particular type of gameplay. I'd probably land in the same boat and I'd gladly sacrifice another tool or consumable to bring a more reliable intel tool.

I would absolutely consider sacrificing choke bombs or a throwing weapon to bring a renewable stalker beetle analogue

(assuming it was tuned to be more intel focused rather than CC/DOT focused)

[brisk timber]

just thought about some stones you could throw that glow when people are nearby

make it a big pouch and refill at carts

5 stones or so

idk 😄

[stark fulcrum]

@brisk timber you ran out of ideas didn't you lol, glow stones!

[unborn dagger]

Im honestly trying to think of an idea to rework something like Instinct into the flashlight or the spyglass lol.

Since those two are useless as hell

[hallow pasture]

Here's an idea, every clue you pick up, you get 2 instinct senses, it's not even bound to a trait anymore, just like bounty works, it would be back, permanent for everyone, also, not unlimited.. so use it wisely.

Look at it this way, clues glow red when opposing players are nearby, when you pick up a clue, you gain that power as a burn on use ability.

[brisk timber]

im trying!

[hallow pasture]

Really??

Glowing stones tho...

[stark fulcrum]

@hallow pasture thats the best idea I've saw yet

Put that in suggestions

[hallow pasture]

Go ahead.

copy pasta xD

[brisk timber]

@stark fulcrum
Oh another Pax Buntline dreamer!
someday it will be reality for us - i believe

[hallow pasture]

Doubt it, really...

[brisk timber]

why? 😦

[hallow pasture]

For the few dreamers out there, and every other person hating on the pax for some reason, I doubt another version will come when the gun is outperformed by scottfield.

Don't get me wrong, I like the pax, but rarely use it anyway.

[stark fulcrum]

I can see it coming. I mean we got drilling and that was a long shot

Its not far fetched whatsoever for them to add buntline and the double action

Let Scott keep its place as a more affordable version of pax with slightly better accuracy

And faster reload

[hallow pasture]

https://tenor.com/view/and-done-did-it-got-it-done-nph-hive-gif-18535898

[broken musk]

@little oasis I get what you mean, and i agree to a certain degree. But the exclusivity and how limited it is also adds to the coolness of the skin.

Which in terms does not make it better lol

But alot of games with skins have this, permantently gone skins, that you were able to obtain earlier

[unborn dagger]

A skin being time limited doesn't make it cool at all, it just makes people annoyed that they can't get it. Having to work towards a skin by killing a 1000 zombies, getting a 100 headshots on hunters, getting a 100 bounty extractions, now that adds a "coolness" factor to the skin.

[broken musk]

I mean yeah, but to the people that own the skin for example, they would probably feel like shit if their valuable limited skin gets layed out on the table and can be bought

[unborn dagger]

That's why I'm saying to make a skin to work towards, not just be bought out right

[broken musk]

But i do agree it would be cool with obtainable hunter skins which you would have to do specific challenges for

[broken musk]

I will add that to suggestions actually

[unborn dagger]

Exactly, I genuinely rarely use skins that I buy. I bought the ronin skin, never used it, bought the other ronin skin, barely use it. Getting Gar afyer reaching rank 100? Now that I use a lot

[stark fulcrum]

I want a butt naked skin

With just a sock in front

[little oasis]

I mean im almost prestige 100 id be down if they let me choose any legendary in the game for reaching it (I dont care about the mosin skin) ive 100% every event since i started playing, just sucks i started playing like 2 months after that event so by luck alone I cant get it.

If they added them as really hard challenges etc something like that id be down as well, just lockin them away never to be seen again is a shame since a lot of the event skins are some of the best imo. devils advocate the doctor and false saint are real neato design wise

[empty oasis]

If that were true then the Centenary would be "cool" but its really not

[analog willow]

@broken musk Seems like a good idea 😋 #game-ideas message

[analog willow]

Something like this? 😋 #game-ideas message

[frigid folio]

The Centenary is a very lack luster skin. However when you kill someone and see they have one you go "oh shit I just killed a prestige 100" which I think is the "coolness" factor for the centenary. Not so much the skin it's self, but the achievement behind getting it and when people see the skin they know you've done something very few in the game have

[broken musk]

Yeah something like that^^

[crystal plume]

@open carbon It was already changed back

[open carbon]

Damn I checked right before I sent the message. Checked again just now and you're right. I'm sorry 🙈 Should I remove my post?

[crystal plume]

Up to you 😄

[open carbon]

Guesss it's only fair :D

Thanks for letting me know 😊

[dim heron]

@marsh mantle Ublock blocks it because it's a tiny url link. Most shorteners will be blocked by Ublock

[marsh mantle]

good

but one thing: tinyurl works for other links, but not for Hunt Links 😉

[dim heron]

not always, my Ublock blocks all shorteners

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/403295315685539852.png?size=64&quality=lossless

and what ublock doesn't get, adblockplus does

[sour cloud]

https://medal.tv/games/hunt-showdown/clips/1sXrCS9-Pyvj38/d1337jgpq3UG?invite=cr-MSxwRTMsNDk0NDk4NTQs

wtf? player just vanished

[fallow dragon]

Any news on anticamp and or anti boss babysitting mechanics?

[sour cloud]

dream on mate 🙂 but just curious, how you imagine it?

[vital fractal]

Well, unsolicited, the way I imagine an anti-camping mechanic is based on two approaches:

1. If a player knows there is another player just sitting holding an angle or preparing a strong defense and not moving much, they are then presented with the option to proceed in a few manners- maybe along the lines of prodding defenses, pushing in blindly, waiting outside with a counter angle holding, or simply leaving

OR

2. If a player does not know that another player is holding an angle and is attempting an ambush then that player will have the means to rework the reasoning behind why that other player was able to set up that ambush or the initial player will have the tools to check corners and compounds slowly

If they implement these mechanics it would be so cool

[hallow pasture]

I don't get it

Refine by player 1 player 2 or something..

[stark fulcrum]

Its a weird issue because how do you differentiate camping vs setting up an ambush? I liked what I read yesterday someone wrote about improving beetles. I mean they work ok as is, either you spot them or the beetle dies and you know the basic area they're in. Situations occur, im aware, like a silenced shot kills beetle. You also are idle while in beetle mode which is why you find a good spot to release it. Overall just improvements to that would pretty well cover camping.

Again, you gotta see both sides. One is wanting fair fights the other is you cant expect a Romero man to charge outside into long ammo fire. Id say be more cautious in your gameplay around a compound. Everyone is always mad if they get ambushed, but most do the same thing if the opportunity presents itself.

I myself will immediately set up an ambush if I see or hear another team, but they don't see me. It's thier fault for being loud or out in the open. I'm in it to win it. That said, someone camping ten minutes in a bush or dark corner....beetle is the only option atm. I wish as well we had more.

@late quartz you guys read what all this guy wrote above, I think he had the best solution so far.

[sour cloud]

so am i... whatever he said just doesn't make any sense at all to me

[queen jungle]

@marsh mantle that list ublock uses blocks most link shorteners which is what they used for the announcement

not really something they can get around if they want to use shorteners

[marsh mantle]

the tinyurl led to a different site which was blocked. I thought this was explicitly stated in the screenshot

[crystal plume]

@fathom fable That's not how the system works though, you will always gain MMR when you get kills, it's just the amount that you gain that is affected by the enemy's MMR in comparison to yours. Just because you don't face (at least seemingly) higher MMR opponents, doesn't mean that you're stuck at your MMR

It will still entirely depend on your own performance

[fathom fable]

I understand, what im trying to imply is that the mmr provided from killing those of equal mmr is not enough (it seems) to get me a decent ways into the next rank, if at all.

[oak plaza]

Imma be real I dont think ppl realise how far cheats have come. Its not as simple anymore as getting some anticheat for the game. Most cheats at this point are AI drivin and legit just watch your screen so arnt actually installed on the users maschine. #feedback message

For all intence and purposes the cheater could stream the game and nothing would look out of the ordinary.

[crystal plume]

I highly doubt that most cheats are AI driven even currently 😄

[oak plaza]

I would bet they are but idk either. However I do know most are Kernel level and if the anti cheat isn’t it’s a RIP. Edit: I know hunts Easy anti cheat should be Kernel but refering to a reddit post of a programer making his own I have big doubts about it.

[hardy coral]

[brazen shoal]

Intents*

[hot vigil]

I mean, many prolific (not talking about Hunt) streamers have been caught cheating while live streaming

Without fancy AI cheats

[oak plaza]

If your smart you aint ganna use normal or well the old way of cheats. Just sayin.

[hot vigil]

If you are cheating you ain't smart

[oak plaza]

Fax

[brisk timber]

Your logic isnt flawed.
But playing effectively and taking advantage of those mechanics tends to make the game a drag, stale and in worst case extremely boring.

I would even go so far to argue that the players that are too impatient, too bored or outright dont really give a f' about those mechanics enable a good player to have fun with this kinda playstyle in the first place.
The most boring and sweaty matches where nobody triggers anything, everyone waits for the others to give away intel first - man those are the most annoying shit games and least amount of fun to be had in hunt.

Thats probably not a small part of why so many people hate to play in those high MMR lobbies because the game becomes a boring sweatfest. Half the match becomes a silent parcour walking sim while you can get taken back to lobby screen in a heartbeat. Its not a really an engaging gameplay loop at the end of the day.

In my view people defending that problematic game design are the ones thriving off of it because they are willing to endure the shit aspects to get their kills. Im not.

I think the game peaks when there are fair fights or a cat and mouse game.
The good thing about Instinct was that it enabled the Cat to sniff the mouse out effectively the first time ever in Hunts life cycle.

[late quartz]

I think it's important to be careful when you make these sorts of statements because you open yourself up to like... very low effort rebuttals that completely circumnavigate the point you're trying to make.

What you're saying here, while something I largely agree with (although not entirely), is ultimately very subjective. Saying that some elements of the game aren't engaging or that they're "shit aspects" isn't unreasonable, and I think you can make a strong case to back those sorts of statements up, but unreasonable or bad faith interpretations allow people to simply attack that assertion instead of actually engaging with your point.

I agree that Hunt has a lot of downtime, that hunt has a lot of dynamics that culminate in a meta that encourages inaction and passivity over risk and skill expression.
I agree that these elements could be altered or modified to bolster Hunt's fun factor without removing or harming its tension and tactical nature.

The issue tho is that when you phrase it the way you did, people will just come by and say "well sounds like you hate hunt and just wanna play CoD" which probably isn't true.

[vital fractal]

In higher MMR lobbies I see mainly push and activity all the time since in higher MMR most players are sweaty (not because of camping but because of their insane blood thirst, actively abandoning lairs to find people)

In fact, I find campers mainly in 3 star and below- but I also find some of the most fun matches in 3 star because no one is effectively using meta except the smurfs- leading to a fun fight.

Instinct may on paper be for “sniffing out the mouse” but in reality it’s a handholding trait used to tell people whether they were safe or not, which is against hunt’s whole “always watch your back” sort of theme-

You want to know what else instinct really changes when camping? Nothing except ambushes and solos trying to be sneaky and aggressive

If someone’s camping a boss lair, you already know if 1. It’s red, 2. The boss is dead and not proccing a signal 3. You hear movement

If you suspect someone is in the boss lair, and know, then of course you’re gunna have to push in against a defense- especially if people are smart and just hold angles.

Yeah a well thought out defense sucks to attack… because that’s the purpose of a well thought out defense. If it sucks to go up against, and you don’t find it fun- then leave, cause the people defending find it fun or effective or both.

Instinct doesn’t stop camping the lair or an area, it just tells you someone is there which only acts to negate stealth tactics while pushing or setting up an ambush- rather than active camping.

Both ambushes and stealth movement is very fundamental to hunt and as I said, instinct works against those strategies whilst leaving the main complaint made of camping untouched really.

Instinct promotes passiveness from rats and those underskilled as it acts as a faux-safety radar- and I’ve seen more unskilled hunt players (not pushing with instinct) than skilled using instinct to hunt people down- but again that’s because I’m not a 6 star.

[late quartz]

If it sucks to go up against, and you don’t find it fun- then leave, cause the people defending find it fun or effective or both.

This isn't my impression. It doesn't seem like most people who end up camping even enjoy it.
The issue is often framed as "Shotguns vs snipers" for a reason, with both parties complaining that the other party is to blame for the bad gameplay. The problems arise when both the indoor and outdoor team feel that they have no effective actions to take, and the most advantageous play is to wait and hope the other player makes a move first.

[vital fractal]

Fun or effective, seems like the effective part of that covers your point with the OR

Also, instinct won’t help in this instance anyways

You know people are there, and they you are there

[late quartz]

Yeah but these are totally different

I agree people do it because it's EFFECTIVE

I don't think they're doing it because it's the way they enjoy playing Hunt the most

That strikes the heart of the issue, the vast majority of players on both sides of the issue do not like it when the game turns into a stalemate

[vital fractal]

That’s because the vast majority of players are greedy- you will never get around that base issue

[late quartz]

It's not a positive gameplay dynamic, its effectiveness is an issue not a feature. Players are forced into optimizing the fun out of the game

Greedy????

[vital fractal]

Yes

[late quartz]

People don't wanna sit in a box for 35 minutes

[vital fractal]

Because they don’t want to lose

[late quartz]

Yeah of course it's a PvP game :x

[brisk timber]

Pointing out the obvious

[late quartz]

If a player is given a set of bad options and one clearly less bad option, they're picking the option that has the least negative pressures.

Blaming players for action rationally is not going to get you anywhere, game design is about mediating players' incentives and desires against your game's systems and design goals

[vital fractal]

Because you’ve lost sight of the forest looking at a tree.

[late quartz]

We know, as a matter of fact, players will most often not enjoy losing

[brisk timber]

Instead of making a game more fun and engaging you say "Deal with it"

what is this logic

[late quartz]

If your game creates situations where a player's only clear path to not avoid a loss is to optimize the fun out of the game they'll probably take that path.

[queen jungle]

Well if everybody won an equal number of matches, you'd still lose five out of every six matches.

[late quartz]

What's the takeaway from this?

[brisk timber]

I think its not even about winning tho
More about giving players viable options to deal with a situation

[vital fractal]

And you have them, you just don’t like that it’s slow

[brisk timber]

Right now there are just not enough tools to sniff out a passive player

[vital fractal]

You even opened this conversation

Acknowledging it

[late quartz]

The whole point of this conversation is that Rakki doesn't think the tools are sufficient.

[vital fractal]

Considering it stale and a drag is subjective

[late quartz]

LUL see

[brisk timber]

Slow? its not even slow. Its because somebody is often is fed up with this shit and makes a move.

Theres just often just non progression at all

[vital fractal]

Then why did you say slow

In the form of “a drag”

[brisk timber]

Because the game overall gets slower
While the situations is even worse - stale

thats a difference

[vital fractal]

That’s an opinion

[brisk timber]

As everything here

[vital fractal]

Which by all means is fine

[late quartz]

Bro we're in the dialogue tree

[vital fractal]

This is feedback discussion

[late quartz]

We're in the "I can't engage with the conversation" dialogue tree

[brisk timber]

I would even go so far and say Instinct would be best reduced to 50m
BUT the closer you get to a target the more intense the visual indicator becomes

That would be fun gameplay 🙂

I walk so you can hear me
But the closer i get i can see you

[vital fractal]

Ok Rak-boi

So, taking away stealth would be a boon to the game in your opinion?

[brisk timber]

You give the active and the passive one a tool to use

[brisk timber]

Stealth =/= sitting doin nothing
in my opinion

you can be stealthy and active

[late quartz]

The problem is not that Hunt is slow relative to other games, that's obviously a big part of Hunt.
The problem is that at Hunt's slowest there isn't any engaging gameplay to be had on either side. Stalemates aren't fun or interesting, they're not a battle of strategy or skill, they're simply about who becomes impatient enough to give up first.

Neither side has adequate enough tools to take a reasonable measured risk to get things moving. Both sides are systemically pigeonholed into inaction and passivity.

Inaction is not the same as careful tactical play. We want more tactical gameplay, less inaction.

[brisk timber]

Amen.

[vital fractal]

Sitting doing nothing while waiting for a target isn’t stealth to you- Aka ambushing isn’t stealth?

[brisk timber]

You know what ninjas did to be stealthy
They hide somewhere for hours they knew their targets gonna be at some point of their daily routine

Do you think this is fun as a gameplay?

As i said before
Playing effective doesnt mean its fun

[vital fractal]

Camping is camping and that’s always been controversial since it was introduced but still-

And well, yeah- I’m fine with that game play as much as I am fine with pushing lmao

There’s times to enjoy both

[late quartz]

Rakki, do you think ambushes shouldn't exist at all in Hunt?

[brisk timber]

Yea then we fundamentally disagree here

[vital fractal]

I like the sparks sniper because it makes me feel like im hunting bison

[brisk timber]

I think they should
But they should be quick with the potential to be countered when not acted in a timely manner

Prologned sitting and stuff like that

[vital fractal]

What’s quick then

[brisk timber]

should come with more downsides

[vital fractal]

I hear a person set off crows at salters, Arden isn’t greyed out- I’m at Arden- what’s my time frame?

[hardy coral]

Prolonged sitting in a random spot has the downside of not advancing the game for you, you'll probably miss the bounty or getting to a good position.

[brisk timber]

We had this before
And i agree

[late quartz]

The point seems to be that people who are willing to do this don't care about advancing the game

[vital fractal]

Should they? I mean it’s their game

[late quartz]

Yes.

[brisk timber]

Still. Taking out a target FIRST and then do the bounty is very often way more beneficial

[vital fractal]

In their eyes they are advancing their own enjoyment

[late quartz]

It's not a singleplayer game.

[vital fractal]

No, it’s a pvp game 🙂 with self interest

[late quartz]

I don't care about all players maximizing their own enjoyment. That would mean we'd be okay with cheating

[vital fractal]

No, there’s standards

[late quartz]

Yes

And part of those "standards" is that there are some types of gameplay that are antithetical to a game's overall health and quality

[vital fractal]

Can’t say that “oh no then we’d all be cheating” because that means cheating is inherently enjoyable- which it isn’t

[late quartz]

Those "standards" are all ultimately subjective

[vital fractal]

Exactly

[late quartz]

"No hacking" is also a subjective standard

There's nothing that says games are objectively better if people can't cheat

[vital fractal]

So by your own definition, who are you to say they must do what they must advance the game

[late quartz]

Somebody who has abstract thinking skills :x

I'm not afraid to make subjective assertions about what makes games better or worse... That's how games are made babygirl, somebody ultimately goes "I think this would be a better experience". There is no objective design goal when developing a game

[vital fractal]

If billybobjonestier1gaming wants to sit in a bush scared for his life with a Winfield C and levering next to the lair and LaLlorona’sFeetsniffer just wants to push- both aren’t wrong

But when one asserts that one type is better than the other, that’s when discussions should occur

[late quartz]

I believe, for myself and for the majority of the playerbase, Hunt in 2023 at its slowest is not an engaging experience.

"Normal" Hunt levels of slowness is great, "extreme" hunt levels of slowness isn't

[brisk timber]

Because if everyone would do something else the game would be taken ad absurdum as result

Thats maybe fun and all for open world sandbox games

hardly for a game like Hunt

[late quartz]

The problem here is that, sure, if you wanna go sit in a bush for 35 minutes that's kinda on you.

Hunt is a game that allows players to create situations where the entire lobby is forced to slow down to your pace.
If you happen to get into the boss lair first, you're given the option to hold the entire lobby hostage by sitting around in a concertina nest. That's not very cool.

On a systemtic level players should not be able to slow the pace of the entire lobby down to a complete gridlock. Is that subjective? Sure, but I'm not afraid to make subjective claims about what hypothetical version of Hunt would be better

[wary hinge]

Isn't literally most of the entire point of hunt pvp needing to have the adaptability to deal with other playstyles

[late quartz]

Yes. There should be more tools that allow players to counter passive play given an adequate resource investment and application of skill

[brisk timber]

The entire point of hunt at a basic level is to get out alive and at best with a bounty 😄

its telling that if we think about those basic rules

I feel like they arent enforced enough

[wary hinge]

The only real nerf imo to that style of play is concertina being more easily killable

It feels very inconsistent what clears it sometimes

Other than that I don't think any of the playstyles do serious or lasting harm to the game as they all have their strengths and weaknesses

[wary hinge]

Remove bounty and this is correct
While the bounty is a goal
It isn't the only goal

[hardy coral]

Not really inconsistent, it's slashing attacks and explosions.

[wary hinge]

Explosives do not work half the time

Sometimes it looks like you are connecting your hits on concertina and you are not

It's very finnicky

[late quartz]

I don't even necessarily think we need direct nerfs.
I'm looking for more interesting counterplay, more tools to allow players to feel comfortable taking an action and breaking up gridlock.

More counterplay deepens the experience on both sides

If both teams feel their best move is to stay passive, I think it would improve the game to give one or both sides more options to take risks and leverage skill

[wary hinge]

I think that is more something needed to be fixed on the map design portion

[late quartz]

I mean that certainly plays a role?

[wary hinge]

Like what tool would you say would you add realistically

That can do that

Cuz every idea ive seen said for like stop campers

Seems to help them more

Beetle included (when it's used)

[late quartz]

Well my #1 idea at this point in time is stalker beetle changes.

One of the biggest problems with beetles is that they're very limited and finite in their usage. Once you get off a beetle it's very unlikely you're getting it back in that fight. Flying it back to your hunter is pretty impractical and causes any intel you gather to "expire".

I'd like to see a 4~5 point trait that allows you to channel a beetle from dark sight to reinhabit it off the floor, making them a more consistent and reliable intel gathering tool.

Similarly, I'd like to see a new beetle variant that has no suicide explosion but in turn has increased speed and handling to make it more specialized as a team-based intel gathering tool as opposed to CC/zoning.

[wary hinge]

That feels like it would benefit the campers more than the invaders

[late quartz]

How lol

[hardy coral]

Beetles don't benefit campers much.

[late quartz]

You need to act on intel to benefit from it

If your goal is to sit the fuck still intel isn't going to help you

[hardy coral]

Since it takes a guy out of the fight and if you're camping you don't really care for intel, you just want the enemy to walk into you.

[late quartz]

If you get intel off a beetle and it encourages you to push and stop camping... good? THAT'S THE WHOLE GOAL! The goal is to reduce the appeal of passive play and encourage players to take risks

Risks = somebody might get shot = the game progresses

[wary hinge]

Idk I've just consistently used beetles yo watch people invading the compound and know where they are coming in at all times

[late quartz]

Rainbow Six Siege is a wonderful example of a game with brutally punishing times to kill, which is built almost from the ground up on camping boss lair LOL

One of the things this game does really well is it makes their Stalker Beetle equivalent a standard part of the attackers' kit, and it allows those attackers to freely get on and off their drones so long as they aren't destroyed.
Droning in Siege is a massive element of skill, teamwork, coordination, and is a core part of what makes the asymmetrical attack vs defense gameplay work

Okay but like... so what

What do you do with that information?

Cause again the goal is to get somebody to peek a window and take a shot. As long as people are shooting bullets at eachother instead of just hunkering down that's a good thing

[wary hinge]

You sit there
See what they do
And kill them at whatever door they enter

The usual camper thing

[brisk timber]

As much as i like the beetle aswell the most problematic part about it is that you have to sit down and go into beetle mode and lose complete action of your Hunter

i still think that Instinct is one of the best tools to have achieved that to date
The detection range was probably too high and gave away player presence too easily
But i still feel like a basic as radar to sniff out stationary players would help Hunt a big deal without beeing too finicy and situational

[late quartz]

It really hardly helps here though. Like yes, it helps, but how many times have you been camping a boss lair and somebody like... sneaks in cause you didn't know what door they wanted to take LOL

[wary hinge]

Eh every so often

But like that's the point

[late quartz]

Infrequently at best

[brisk timber]

Or if Instinct is out of discussion
There need to be more cues a stationary target gives off some way or another

[wary hinge]

The beetle would be used for pretty much that still

Like currently imo the best tool for killing camping people is a flash bomb

But everyone hates the flash bomb

And flash bomb style stuff is fairly annoying

It's a good and useful tool
But it's both abusable and has left a sour taste in everyone's mouth

[late quartz]

Let me level with you here. You've sort of staked out a position where you're against all possible changes

You opened up with "anything you add would benefit campers" and it seems like you're committed to finding a way to square that circle

Do beetles benefit campers sometimes? I guess. Proportionally the benefit is much... much much much much lower than it could potentially benefit attacking teams

[wary hinge]

If you want something that helps people push
That same thing shouldn't give campers just ad much of an advantage

I think the beetle overall as a mechanic
Falls in that

And the consistent reactivation of a beetle would also do that

[brisk timber]

Id rather have a guy behind me pushing
Than this guy sitting in a bush and go in with a beetle infront of me 😄

[wary hinge]

I think the big thing to fuck with compound campers would be to make the map actually more idk the word
Fluid?

[late quartz]

Proportionally it would be very mid for campers and potentially gamechanging for pushers

Of all the tools you could bring to camp, a beetle is not very high on the list

[brisk timber]

In my experience beetle is still best used as surveilance cam

[wary hinge]

A beetle isn't high on the list for attackers either

[late quartz]

For sure, I think they're too weak to be good intel gathering tools

[wary hinge]

And those changes would make it better as a camera for defenders

[hardy coral]

It's best used to scope an angle and possibly hit them for an easier kill.

[late quartz]

They're designed to be suicide bombers which is not good

[hardy coral]

It's bad as a surveillence tool because it's easy to shoot since it's slow and therefore easy to pop out of the air, it's best used in tight spaces.

[late quartz]

It's a buff to beetles it makes beetles better. The question is does it make it better for all people equally? I think the answer is clearly no LOL

[wary hinge]

Yes it makes it better for defenders

More than attackers

[late quartz]

lol okay well, I guess agree to disagree

[hardy coral]

Also beetle trees should be more consistent around the map, if you look at the spawns for them online they're clumped in 1 corner of each map lul.

[brisk timber]

If its shot it already fulfilled its function of detecting somebody is around

[late quartz]

I don't really understand but I'm not sure it'll be worked out between us

[wary hinge]

For the beetle specifically sure

[brisk timber]

in general i wished beetles would be atleast a bit faster

[late quartz]

Forward facing intel gathering tools benefit players who seek to act on information. If you're camping a static area with a "surveillance cam" you're not acting on information.

Further, since you don't decide the pace of the fight, there's more time for your beetle to be shot and disabled.

Intel gathering is useful for everybody

It's more useful for people who need to take a risk and walk into enemy controlled territory

It's an extra life lul

I've never gone "Fuck I can't push this compound, they have a stalker beetle!!!!"

[wary hinge]

Nobodies ever gone the opposite either

[late quartz]

I have gone "shit they know where I am now I have to give up this position"

[wary hinge]

That's true

[brisk timber]

The beetle is not there to enhance intel in an ongion fight on a camper side
Its for the intel before a fight
To see if somebody approaches
And at best from where at what angle, which entrances they going for

Then the beetle already did its job

If you act on this intel is on you then

[late quartz]

Especially once you get teamwork into the mix, when you have people refragging off beetles or using consumes like flashes in conjunction with a teammate making callouts off a beetle, things get very very effective

[wary hinge]

That is also true

[brisk timber]

But atleast you dont had to facecheck a window or smth

Ant the vision from above can be really beneficial

If im camping inside i literally use it as surveilance drone

[late quartz]

Goop comin in with the emoji

[wary hinge]

Like for raiding with a beetle I always just think the beetle is worse than -1 player
Sure it can give a location but the lowered firepower rarely is worth the tradeoff

Even with these changes it would feel bad although I guess ide have to play eoth them to properly find out

[brisk timber]

I try to use it with a premade partner lately
So i beetle and go in first and he behind my beetle
SO i pop it on an enemy and he can finish off

But the inherent risk still remains that hes alone and i sitting somewhere behind

[wary hinge]

Yeah

[brisk timber]

Beetle isnt a great offensive tool :S

[wary hinge]

Just more entrances to compounds
Or he'll just more holes in the walls to know where people are and wallbang them I think is just a better initial step towards this problem

[late quartz]

It's a highly skill based form of counterplay

[brisk timber]

The thing that would make beetle really awesome offensively would be automatic tracking of closest player

[late quartz]

It takes practie and commitment

[brisk timber]

But then we go into "thats lame" territory like people claim on instinct 😄

[wary hinge]

That is lame

[late quartz]

I think you're sort of looking for automated/low-input tools, yeah

[wary hinge]

Lmao

On a serious note the beetle having like a darksight style glow on players who do a specific action like opening darksight would be neat

[late quartz]

Beetles require risk. That's part of why they're a good solution. They don't trivialize anything, they don't make campers feel helpless, they aren't "you win buttons" like flashes can be

[brisk timber]

i mean at some point isnt anything "automated" "lowefford"
We could turn our monitor off and only use our ears and play by sound
Using eyes is lowkey loweffort to begin with isnt it...?

im exagerrating here

[wary hinge]

We understand what you are saying
The thing is the tradeoff is not worth it for the risk

[late quartz]

It's not, that's why I want them to be better lol

Beetles are not worth the risk at the moment

[wary hinge]

I was saying with the above proposed changes they still wouldn't be

More things would probably push it though

[brisk timber]

Yea im not saying making beetle auto track is the solution
I was just experessing a thought on the general problem of the mechanic making it benefit a camp playstyle more

[late quartz]

Yeah maybe more could be done

[brisk timber]

To be active with beetle you would to have to free up your hunter in the first place

[late quartz]

There is legitimate risk to overtune beetles as well though

[wary hinge]

Yes

[late quartz]

Right now, as I see it, the biggest problem is that they're sort of one and done

I can't use them consistently throughout a fight to gather intel, I get one shot and then they're on the floor or exploded.

[brisk timber]

Agree

[little jackal]

beetle reconnect feature when

[late quartz]

TRUE

[brisk timber]

Maybe a better step would have been to make a single beetle less harmfull but therefore having 2 or 3 of them with slightly faster speed

would probably help more

[late quartz]

Yep. the fact that they explode heavily limits their balance

[wary hinge]

Just buff their speed and remove the bombing aspect imo

That's a good first step

[late quartz]

I would prefer stalker beetles as a tool rather than a consumable

[wary hinge]

Make it so you can shoot them while they are on the floor

Add that perk or whatever

Bam

[brisk timber]

Would be cool for a beetle to latch onto someone and make him visible in DS for like 10 sec or so

[late quartz]

And again, I totally agree Blue, this alone wouldn't fix the game

BUT the goal is to find options for people to empower players to take risks

Right now in "camping" scenarios both teams are best off not doing anything

Whoever takes a risk first almost always puts themselves at a disadvantage

Team-based intel gathering (one person beetles while the other two push based on callouts) is one of the most flexible and skill based ways to empower players to push into dangerous areas

Right now you either jump peek a corner or you waste a flash on every doorway and hope you get lucky LUL

[brisk timber]

Still this only helps if you are at some compounds and/or know that someone is around

A big part of why i initiate the instinct convo was players camping on the map
people who are notoriously not interested in getting to the bounty but stalking people on the map

[wary hinge]

I remember following a guy for like 10 minutes
It was hilariously fun

I didn't do anything
Just watched him from like 50 meters

[brisk timber]

Yea i feel like this is viable

And i think thats somewhat fine

[late quartz]

Realistically, you could beetle into every compound ahead of time... it would be pretty boring and a waste of time usually, but it's an option if this sort of gameplay bothers you a lot.

That's why you like instinct, it's fast, it's effective, it totally weeds out the possibility of walking into a trap

The problem is it's really hard to make a tool achieve this goal quickly and easily without it becoming low effort or low skill

[brisk timber]

Instinct just helped tremendously against those people waiting somewhere with close combat loadouts

I'd rather test my luck against a rifler

Then run into a dude waiting with his C&K

[wary hinge]

I would rather Instinct not be readded

One of the more intense things of hunt is the possibility you can get jumpscared by another team

Sure it can be annoying

[late quartz]

If you had to guess, what percent of matches do you run into somebody waiting to ambush in a random (non clue/boss lair) spot?

[wary hinge]

But something as easy as Instinct to deal with that imo is too much

[brisk timber]

Lately? I feel like that happens every second game

[wary hinge]

You must be really unlucky

[brisk timber]

maybe

I actually try to avoid my teammates making noise and stuff
Go into the grey areas and what not

[late quartz]

In US East servers at ~2900 MMR, I'd say I get lair campers 3~5% of the time

Random bush/compound/tower campers? It's gotta be less than 1% of matches

[wary hinge]

The issue is it may feel like they were camping as well but like

[brisk timber]

And still i bump into a guy sitting in a bush with a drilling who slugs me

[wary hinge]

They couldve just got there heard your footsteps

And gimped ya

[brisk timber]

and it happens so frequently its really taking the fun out

[wary hinge]

Like from your perspective you do not know if they sat there for 30 minutes
Or 2 and just stopped after hearing a nearby grunt die or something

[brisk timber]

Yea i know. But that means that they played extremely slow and rather go hunt players than hunt bounty.

And if everyone would play like that...

This would be boring AF

[wary hinge]

Generally it's a case by case scenario here

Instead of a everyone plays like x or y

People will act with what they are presented

[brisk timber]

I think having a tool to sniff out players close by in an open world like map isnt unreasonable.
Games like CSGO and Siege function so well because the map is fairly limited.
And games like Battlefield with open maps have really fast respawns.

[wary hinge]

The issue is you don't know what they were presented so ofc you auto assume the worse

It's normal to do such a thing

[brisk timber]

So if you have an wide open map and long "respawn"
it would be good to have tools to be aware

[wary hinge]

But I think it just would take away a bit much from the game if at any moment at your beck and call you can be like

Yeah I'm safe

[late quartz]

There's some truth here.

There could potentially be a guy in every bush past the first 5~ minutes of the game.
You have to play as if there isn't because you would literally never move otherwise. There are too many angles to check them all, you need to just bite the bullet and go.

The issue, like Blue says, is just that there isn't any immediately obvious way to make it risky, costly, or skill based

[brisk timber]

I think instinct not telling you exact position of a player but you can triangulate with movement and giving away your position WHILE getting info out of that movement.

That sounds like a fairly skilled tool to me

[wary hinge]

The most interesting idea I saw was the ability to put down like totems which glow red near players

But they would hear the totems red too

For example

[late quartz]

So instinct but it broadcasts your position as well?

[brisk timber]

I mean it does already.
You move. You make sound.
Your DS "swoosh" sound you make.

[wary hinge]

Barely

[brisk timber]

Its ten time more intel you give away than anybody sitting scanning the area.

[late quartz]

Okay but "it makes sound" is the same bad argument people use against you for why instinct shouldn't be in the game

"just listen lol"

[brisk timber]

People listen anyways.

[late quartz]

Going into dark sight is... incredibly quiet

Moving is never going to be a universal solution to tell you if people are around

[brisk timber]

You still have to move tho

[late quartz]

You're falling into the same arguments people use against you :P

See, if you were saying like... you get DSB lightning when you use instinct

THEN I'd be like "okay yeah maybe that's an adequate tradeoff"

Whenever you use instinct everybody else gets free DSB on you LOL that's something

[brisk timber]

Ofc i do because i use the tools at hand
Instinct is limited and vulnerable by the mechanics already in the game
Using instinct offensively is still an risk
I dont need to offer the other side anything as compensation

Because i already put my life at line beeing the active "searching" part

But atleast i had tool

[late quartz]

You're not really putting your life on the line by just just pressing a button and going into dark sight

[wary hinge]

You will never really use instinct to search though
It's literally 99.9% of the time used as like a oh shit people are here situation

[late quartz]

It is genuinely just free intel

[brisk timber]

Dude i talk about triangulation

If people only used it to sit down and do nothing

they simply didnt know how to use instinct offensively

[late quartz]

I'm not even saying that, I'm not saying you just sit in a corner using instinct

[wary hinge]

Using it offensively was never really worth it imo

[brisk timber]

Good enough for me.

[late quartz]

The way I used instinct throughout the even is I would pop into dark sight while moving around the map so I could make sure i was safe to sprint the fuck around between clues LOL

That's why I think it was positive for the game, it speeds up traversal and cuts out downtime

[brisk timber]

Yea that was undoubtly one part of it

[late quartz]

But instinct was never a RISK to use

[brisk timber]

Yea that part wasnt

[late quartz]

It was just free utility

[brisk timber]

But i often used it to swarm around an area and pin point someone down

if i moved circles i could at somepont say
"Ok hes in that house"

or "Hes behind that rock"

triangulation

[late quartz]

Sure but imo there's no reason why you need instinct to do that instead of a beetle

[little jackal]

wondering what's the point of looking for a player that is hiding so hard you have to use T R I A N G U L A T I O N

[late quartz]

Beetles do the same thing but are more balanced because they take more risk and skill

[brisk timber]

Because leaving behind a potential thread often bites you in the ass longterm

[wary hinge]

Yes but the time and effort to triangulate a player imo is not worth it

[brisk timber]

if its last of a team and you wanna move on?

it surely is

[wary hinge]

Generally just burning all the corpses for two minutes does that far better and consistently

And safety

[little jackal]

just listen and shoot them if they follow you

wasn't it about camping in the first place?

[brisk timber]

Yea i dont wanna go into detail for every counter to every situation now
all the cool solutions arent at hand so steadily and come at risk themselfes

Like you said before

Beetle treets maybe a handful in some corner of the map

And sometimes a lantern is nowhere to be found

[wary hinge]

The scenarios you describe are so inconsistent though

[late quartz]

Sure, but the question is whether or not this problem is so fundamental to hunt that it needs a universal counter.

You can't always have a counter to every situation, your loadout is choosing which situations you care about countering most

[brisk timber]

I will die on the hill that i think a basic solution to sniff out hiding people even if its blatant is good in my book
Maybe it takes away from the sneaky beaky playstyle and skill
But i take that for speeding up the game and deletes some of the unpredictability

[late quartz]

I agree there should be options

Not necessarily default options though

[wary hinge]

Also another issue is if instinct was brought back it would just be another basically forced perk slot

We don't need more of those

[late quartz]

I think giving players options to invest in picking off stragglers would be great, but I don't think it's something that should be a builtin staple of all Hunters

[brisk timber]

I agree
i dont want it to be a trait tho

for me it has to be basekit or not atall

One party having it and the other not is inherently imbalanced

Its already showed in the event

[brisk timber]

I mean Bounty Dark Sight vision was added later and its damn fuckin blatant and low effort aswell

sometimes its the simple easy solutions that help solve a problem best

[late quartz]

Yeah it's low effort but it's extremely high risk

[little jackal]

there's no problem to solve

[late quartz]

Having bounty token means everybody knows where you are all the time

And the entire lobby wants to merc you

[brisk timber]

debateable.
Not few of the people i played hunt with have quit because the stalemates in combination with getting killed in 0,1 sec can be really frustating.
Nobody wants to play a walking sim at the end of the day.

[little jackal]

I mean it might be a problem for a hunter to solve during the match, but not a design flaw that needs a new tool. If you move slow or loud and get ambushed, the solution is right here in this sentence. If you had to be loud and suspect a team to be watching your approach, change the approach. If the question is which building in a compound has sneaky people inside, there's beetles and other consumables, or tools. If a person's hiding skills are too good, it's time to recall that they're not the objective. Give up on them, and look how the tables have turned. Now they're the approaching party.

I don't like Instinct because it gives a cheap get-out-of-jail-free solution to the skill issue. Whether or not the change in the game's pace that it brings is needed is indeed debateable. Or more like a matter of taste.

[brisk timber]

I somewhat agree to your points and like i said before there are always niche solution to problems.
Its just problematic that you have to counter a universal mechanic (sitting and listen to sound) with very niche and often finite tools. Ofcause coming out on top is skillfull in those cases but one cant deny that the balance sways into the direction of reactive player.

While this bearable and one can shrugg it off losing a full on fight.
Those mechanics tend to be offputting when they put you out of game or even worse on the ground to watch a game for a prologned time - and that in an unsuspecting and quick manner.

Its the downtime between those fights that are especially problematic.

[little oasis]

On one hand instinct makes it safer to run around the map but it also ruins any fun in ambushing or setting up a good trap because some goober is running around in darksight now their whole team doesn't have to pay attention they just automatically know you are there and immediately turn into turtling in the nearest boss building. I don't like camping I don't support that playstyle but ambushing and having better situational awareness about what's going on around you is for me a big part of the moment to moment. Like oh a team behind me sent up crows let me try and predict where their path will cross mine since i'm now armed with more information, but oh wait just kidding they can make mistakes all day due to instinct and not get punished. Feels like it is way too rewarding and easy to use to the point you might as well just pretend sound traps etc. don't exist why care about making noise if you know no ones around and can know before most loadouts can reliably engage you.

Sucks getting ambushed but 90% of the time it's because of a gameplay error on my part or my teams. Instinct as it was or as a base feature ruins the whole information gathering and potential use of that information by making it a blanket even playing field so it feels like your not being rewarded for noticing the things around you, but ignoring them and running around with abandon anyways.

Also sorry if it was a bit long, just had a decent amount of time to think about it and sum up my thoughts.

[crystal plume]

@timid canyon Unsure what you mean, rain is already in the standard rotation with a reduced chance to appear like all of the other low visibility time of days

[brisk timber]

Thats valid but also highly exaggerated at the same time.

Instinct never made anything of that obsolete at all and we all played the event and we all know that it didn't. Having your opponent know that you're present in a certain area or coming from a general direction was always bad for you even with instinct.
Having setup an ambush at +50-75m was still very valid if your enemy didnt literally ran around hands up all the time - and if somebody did that he probably triggered everything around him anyway.
So you can even argue Instinct made fools even more a target.

On the other hand i agree that close combat ambushes got highly gimped by instinct without any really counter argument here. It did indeed.

BUT
and here is the hard breaking point i think...

I wouldnt mind if close combat ambushes would become harder to pull off for their devastating and lowRisk/highReward nature if the enemy has no clue at all that you could be around.
While beeing cautious, checking corners, gather intel with Beetles and what ever cool tool maybe valid for a compound fight it becomes a major drag in open map traversel and insulting to even tell people this is a solution.

At the baseline im not advocating to just integrate Instinct just like that.
Maybe ...no absolutely! fine tune it and tweak it abit
(lower range, charges, playing giving away his position more using it...whatever)
Self Revive was highly controversial aswell and i think (while still could need some finetune) is a good addition to the game.

And if not Instinct just showed that some aspects of the game could really need more tools to make the game more fun and less anti climatic or boring for the player.

[unborn dagger]

Well said statement

[little oasis]

I do see your point, I am exaggerating but i also felt like trying to ambush when every single team had instinct was not only a waste of time but would put me in a worse position than just continuing onwards to boss. Several notable times for me I had ambushes straight ruined by that perk where there was no way they could have seen me coming. So it makes it at least to me feel really bad, I do play crossbow most of the time a lot of my ambushes are close range and rely on them just not knowing i'm there. Having to work harder for the kill is fine to me but, I felt instinct almost made it impossible to sneak up on someone. In open map traversal i'd say I don't know if I agree or disagree with you I don't think current tools are viable in preventing ambush, but I also feel like I don't get ambushed in regular map traversal nearly enough to be irritated about it. If this is the solution then I want more tweaks to make it so close range ambushes are still at least somewhat viable and not ridiculously gimped, its easy to have 1 dude in your team run behind the others sitting in darksight the whole time, he isn't blind and he isn't hitting sound traps if he's following his team and there isn't a damn thing at least during the even stopping that from happening. Maybe my friends where the only ones who did that I don't know. Just hope if it becomes permanent it is limited in some way.

[hallow pasture]

@real bobcat
`Make it so the hunter CANNOT spectate

• This would be the smallest nerf, and in my opinion, not enough at all. Combined with other points tho, it can work.

Make it so when a hunter is burning , they can no longer revive

• this one would make it easier, but still slightly annoying and i think a bit unfair, since noone carries fire bombs and not everywhere you can find a lantern.

Give them ONE revive, so they actually try to learn how to use it well

• This, i think is the greatest one. It feels literally stupid to revive over and over, so just give them one. One singular point where they can save their game. It would be fair, and could make for interesting plays.

Just nerf it in a way, so the game isnt about "let me kill someone and camp them and worry they get up for 20 minutes".`

Point 1. We can't spectate as a Solo having Necro, this cancels out the possibility to revive already.

Point 2. Why.... teams can still be revived if burning...
And lanterns are nearly everywhere, not having firebomb is your problem.

Point 3. Why the hell would you nerf it to 1 revive, people have debated this for long enough, it makes no sense.

Point 4. Place a beartrap, concertina mine or bomb, burn it on top of that, no worries.. gg.

[broken musk]

The trap part can be somewhat negated with resielience trait

Which sucks to be honest

[hallow pasture]

Not if you do it right.

[broken musk]

Unless you poison and concertina it

[steel comet]

Doesn't take long before you lose bars.

[broken musk]

Yes

[steel comet]

You can watch the body until they've charred 50 hp and then leave it.

Since they lose 25 on top of first death

[broken musk]

Yeah but the one who suggested the necro thing, said waiting like that was an issue

[steel comet]

Doesn't take that long

Even faster if they get up immediately, they'll burn faster and easier to kill with traps

[broken musk]

And well, quite alot of solo necros dont actually know how to fully utilize the trait

Atleast in 4* and under

That ive seen

I have farmed many necros, its great

But tbh, i dont really have any issues with necro

If they get up, that means more pvp for me

[hallow pasture]

I've let many leave an opposite extraction many times xD

Being like, ey bruh, wanna do this all day or just fck off the other way?

[steel comet]

I don't mind farming a solo. I also don't mind just leaving them with a lantern and a few traps.

[broken musk]

Yeah, its also satisfying putting so much shit on a necro corpse

[steel comet]

And if they survive that then fine

I'll just kill them easier if they follow..

[broken musk]

True

[hallow pasture]

Exactly, I feel like trap them once and just leave

[broken musk]

Necro seems OP on paper, but really is not that bad, team necro is stronger.

[hallow pasture]

For all you know he already necro'd once, so that's very low health after your trap

not likely he's so stupid to follow

Even so, easy to kill.

[steel comet]

You have actual people that can guard or put pressure with team necro

[broken musk]

All the friends i got into hunt were like "Oh what, you can reivive yourself?????"

They where shocked

Then realized its not that bad after i fully told them

[steel comet]

It's pretty niche to get use of solo necro.
When the enemy is too far away or when you die while fighting multiple teams you could get away with it.

Not guaranteed

[hallow pasture]

If there's more teams around, I usually wait till I can hear one get hit and die, that's my queu to get the hell out.

Doesn't take that long usually, multiple teams around they don't tend to burn so often, they're too busy being shot at.

[rotund obsidian]

have your trio all take alert tripmines and just slap 15 alerts on a solo body so if he gets up he gets instant redskulled

[white plover]

@vestal delta Ggs gamer

[hot vigil]

No one argues that (solo) necro is OP, everyone talks about it is boring to deal with.
It is zero sum game where both parties end up waiting on burning corpse where there in theory are a little window for the solo to come back in.

[brisk timber]

I think making salveskin just not work on downed hunters would help already

Would also add much more pressure to team revives

[empty oasis]

So would taking away chokes

Oh, wait, those were added in because people cried about instaburning

[rotund obsidian]

very simple solution, nerf resilience

[empty oasis]

It was the same situation pre buff. Nerf it any more than that and it becomes a useless perk

[rotund obsidian]

It was fine at 100, now people can facetank a rifle chest shot while standing up

[empty oasis]

they cant tank the long ammo ones unless its the krag

[hot vigil]

You can even make heal 100 and then rapid heal 50 (max hp) rapidly over the span of 5 seconds. So it doesn't makes people tank straight away, but still might get away if the get clipped while getting into cover.

[hot vigil]

Because we need more reasons to make long ammo stronger :b

Well stronger is a wrong word

"more meta"?

[empty oasis]

i mean, the vet or springfield can drop them as well

[hot vigil]

That is true, just that usually it is the long ammo that hold the +125 damage

[empty oasis]

Sure, and i think long ammo is way too strong. I just figured i'd point it out

[hot vigil]

No worries, I get ya' point.

[somber spruce]

Has a 3 star i should not run againts 5 star and higher solo sniper player

even more now that there's a self revive

[hollow raft]

Feedback?

Not sure why people think a shorter max time is a bad idea

It used to be 1 hour, much too long
then current 45 minutes, which isn't even proven to be a healthy amount of time either

[brisk timber]

The same reason why people hate instinct i guess. Because people like to traverse bushes

[white plover]

Instinct was made for bush traversers change my mind

[steel comet]

I'm quite indifferent if the game only lasted 30 minutes or 45 minutes.
It's still a sandbox extraction shooter where anything goes.
Not everyone likes fast paced actions like me and there's no hard written rules on how the match should go.

I don't like a stalemate myself but there's a lot of things you can do before you actually reach a 'stalemate'.

More compound reworks, especially basement ones would make a bigger difference.

[unborn smelt]

Health is highly debatable...

[brisk timber]

I think compounds could definitely use way more exit strats build in
King Snake mine for example has so many routes to bail out

[unborn smelt]

I'd argue speeding the game up to force one of the two sides (in this example the ones feeling trapped inside) in a stalemate to moove is not healthy for the intended gameplay

[brisk timber]

I somewhat agree because it forces close combat loadouts into the open just because off time constraints
its an indirect rifle buff so to say
But i feel like 30min still is a long time for a match

im a bit torn on that one

[unborn smelt]

The intended gameplay IMO is more on the tactical side

[brisk timber]

Yea but i feel like the intended gamedesign often falls short when it comes to active play

[unborn smelt]

IMO the ifea that active play needs to be enforced is the wrong approach

[brisk timber]

hm okay can you elaborate?

[unborn smelt]

Because from my experience most people just want active play to be enforced if that means the enemy needs to make a loosing play to push them

[steel comet]

Yeah, more exits or entrances is a positive thing.
Attackers can still attack defenders, there are plenty of compounds where you can get certain angles, peeks, or just simply a good push.

Brick walls and underground areas are harder to attack since they have hard cover you can't penetrate.

[unborn smelt]

Because technically QP already enforces active play , but it's the opposite of " bounty players need to push outside against the odds" which then doesn't resonate well with many...

At least thats what i oftwn encountered in those discussions

Also Hunt's game play is kinda intended to be on the tactical high stakes side, which typically comes with slower gameplay, because high stakes doesn't mix well with "hold W" unless the skillgap is kinda large...

[brisk timber]

Yea i see what you mean. They way you put it i dont want enforced active play so much aswell. Like typically BR like closing circle around the map. yea not really a fan of that

But what i meant was like... at core the human player wants to partake and be engaged with the game
And hunt very often unfortunately leads to situations where beeing patient and reactive is the most effective strat for both sides and ultimately leads to a slowdown instead of a culmination of events so to say

So in the regard active play should ofc not enforced ..but encouraged?

Or other way around reactive play made less effective

[unborn smelt]

I think its absolutely fine if the game slows down - if neither of the teams are bold enough to make a move

To me the idea of " I'm not bold enough to make a moove myself, but the game needs to make the other team moove" doesnt resonate with me

And on the flip side i think if a very active play is encouraged enough that most players will do it - you loose too much of the tactical high stakes nature

Because if the stakes are high - people will have a sort of "gear fear" which leads to the stalemates, but also at the same time is what intensifies the tension which makes Hunts combat so unique

[solar jewel]

Very Rare “health” item that you find around the map.

Canteen - you take a sip from the canteen and recover a health chunk lost to burning or being killed and revived. Only 1 use.

[crimson mirage]

Guys played 10 rounds - 7 of them with rain/ fog .....what is this.

[analog willow]

It takes 5 minutes to walk across the map. If you have to do that more than once because the boss lair is on the opposite side of your start, and so is the extraction, then you could have 10+ minutes of walking, which would account for 30% or more of a single match. For most matches, 30 minutes is fine, but for the ones where you run into a long fight to start, and then head for bounty, there could often be a "time-crunch" which is not fun to run into. Lowering it from 45 to 30 would not change much except for those long opening fights make it so that you may not have time to go for bounty if the shootout continues for an extended period of time.

TLDR: If the fight lasts 20 minutes, (with a 30 minute max) and I haven't found the bounty already, might as well give up on bounty and head to extraction. If the fight lasts 20 minutes, and you have 25 minutes left in the match, I'm going for bounty every time

[crystal plume]

Unlucky

[crimson mirage]

well i am unlucky very often then. It brings me away from Hunt showdown which is very sad

[dim meadow]

I'd rather have the match time go back up to 60 minutes as the time decrease was used to fix matchmaking times and server stability

[analog willow]

@pearl summit If those are your closest matchups, those are your closest matchups. Nothing you can do if there's no one in your area in your skill level unless you want bots (something they actually talked about😋 ) Just gottta get more people playing! It's a great game!

[knotty ore]

Its not against the odds if you have bounty, thats kinda the reason they get up to 10s on true sight.

If you don't think literal wallhacks are a huge advantage, I donno mang.

[onyx urchin]

zHow do I contact a mod

[analog willow]

Send a DM to ModMail

[unborn smelt]

Thats your interpretation of it... IMO DS doesn't outvalue having to push through chokepoints, with lightnings revealing your every moove all the time, to people outside with countless angles to hold

@autumn stump The reason they provided for patching Quickswapp was because of unintended side effects like negation of recoil, and because that TTK was available to long ammo, which is considerably more powerful anf reliable than medium or compact ammo

The Drilling in comparison is easier to balance because its only a single gun, where they can balance simple stats ( like the <125 dmg, and long ammo range and dmg drop) to put it in the intended spot they want

[autumn stump]

If the negation of recoil was the only issue present, then why change swap speeds, and add the post swap increase sway to pistols. It was specifically to address the ttk. No one had an issue with fixing the recoil negation. It was the same point of contention then as it is now: seeing the strange ttk changes to something like quickswap but then adding guns with debatably faster ttk, drilling included

[flat sun]

Agree

[autumn stump]

I have no issue with the quick swap changes when isolated it shows they want a slower pvp experience but then adding faster fire rate weapons outside of special guns like dolch or avto is contradictory

[knotty ore]

Is it dangerous? The entire game is dangerous lol. We just need mechanics that force people to do shit. No one likes games where no one does anything. If Crytek ever decides to improve the game, they need to decide who should be doing what. If they want everyone to breach they need to actually give us tools that make breaching more balanced. The elegant solution would be to allow us to destroy certain walls with dynamite to create door-sized holes. This way it would give dynamite actual meaning in the game other than being trash you get from boxes. Make waxed dynamite stick to walls so that we can blow open holes where there are no platforms. Let the defending team do the same to floors inside to get certain vantage points. /rant

[analog willow]

I like the idea of walls being blown out

[knotty ore]

please no "iTs nOt sEiGe" replies

[rotund obsidian]

its not siege

[vital fractal]

Bulwark will save you with about 50-60 hp left from 150 from a small Bundle of Dynamite from 6m

A Frag consistently kills someone from 6m even with bulwark (I know it doesn’t affect it)

Bruh frags do not belong here lmao

[rotund obsidian]

frags should deal way less max damage and have a more consistent level of damage+bleed within a certain radius

like, lethal range lower than dynamite

[vital fractal]

Also mandatory it’s not siege*

Yeah frags are a bit over tuned

I get it’s pvp oriented but still- similar performance as a BdB? Come on now

[rotund obsidian]

frags should really just have a shorter throwing distance

its like a big bundle with single stick throwing range

[vital fractal]

Yeah they have a great throwing distance with performance similar to a BdB in the open

[hardy coral]

They have no utility though.

Can't break wire, doors, or deal big damage to bosses.

Frags are honestly fine in power, bulwark needs removed/reworked for dynamite to be best balanced against them.

[analog willow]

@bold valley I really like this idea! #game-ideas message Maybe with a damage reduction, there would be a stamina reduction as well, to provide more punchy punchy and concertina breaking powers?

[bold valley]

Sure. Mostly just thinking of ways to tackle concertina thickets quietly and without accidentally getting cut every few seconds

[analog willow]

I don't think it should be quiet though

Maybe with a trait help, it could be quieter?

[bold valley]

well, quieter than hearing someone hack at it with knives anyway

[unborn dagger]

Reducing the match 30 minutes is just plain stupid. 45 minutes I think is the sweet spot just because rarely has any match ever lasted 60 minutes and it still allows the players to take it slow instead rushing, rushing, rushing.

[brisk timber]

The logic is flawed
You can have fast guns without having a mechanic (quickswap) that make every gun a fast gun even a gun thats otherwise designed to be slow

Quickswap is somewhat gamebreaking by design
But having a fast gun its a thing on its own and rather comes down to taste and design choice i would say

So in conclusion
Gun with fast ttk =/= every gun fast ttk with quickswap

[analog willow]

@visual sentinel I don't think the devs want to promote that kind of drug use in this game😋

[hallow pasture]

None of those ideas are good ideas

What's next? lsd pills, cost 150, makes you see rainbows and clues without dark sights for 5 minutes?

For real, can't take those ideas seriously xD

[visual sentinel]

yea we wouldn’t want anybody getting any ideas, like killing people or anything hahaha..

[analog willow]

Hurting others is something everyone knows is wrong, but sometimes people forget that hurting yourself is bad too

[visual sentinel]

ur right, I’m just messing around

the cigarette one is good tho imo

[unborn dagger]

If a person can understand that killing is wrong I'm pretty sure they can also tell that smoking is wrong. Although I don't think the cigarette is fitting for hunt at all though

It's a game for 17+ and up. People are knowledgeable enough to know smoking is bad for you(edit).

[visual sentinel]

I know some old people who smoke everyday and don’t have any problems

[unborn dagger]

I have siblings that smoke as well and don't have problems either. I should've meant that it's bad than kills

[rotund obsidian]

they may not have problems but they sure as hell aren't getting any better at aiming because of smoking lmfao

[visual sentinel]

Yea it helps you relax for a brief period of time

[rotund obsidian]

relief from the negative effects of addiction, maybe

so like, you bring cigarettes but the addiction comes with a debuff to your aim and cigarettes temporarily bring it back to normal 💀

i think the ultimate question is why the hell should that exist? something that gives you a temporary buff to arbitrary stats like sway, ADS time? at best it's useless, at worst it completely fucks up the balancing of certain guns and makes them overpowered with it

instead, consider the following: cigarettes just to smoke as BM after killing somebody, then igniting the body with it

although tbh i think a tool to ignite bodies might end up being too strong and might become a sorta must-pick like chokes

[hallow pasture]

Just no.. xD

[visual sentinel]

I mean in rdr2 you get a buff and a debuff from smoking

Im sure the devs would balance it better than I

would just be neat

[rotund obsidian]

I think it's more of a way to get players to engage with a role-playing aspect of the time period in rdr2 tbh

[visual sentinel]

I like role playing in hunt

[hallow pasture]

wrong game for that.

[steel comet]

I guess you've never heard of chronic obstructive pulmonary disease 🤨

[visual sentinel]

no I dont, what is it?

[steel comet]

The super short version is permanent damage to the lung tissue. Caused by tobacco smoking.

[little badger]

ey anyone an idea how to fix self reviver for solo ?

[rotund obsidian]

yea just nerf resilience

[little badger]

i mean resilience is fine ... i mean that selfrive is not working anymore , its bugged

[rotund obsidian]

oh like you mean it isnt working at all? lmao

[little badger]

no its broken

u cant use it because no botton to click

[rotund obsidian]

do you have necromancer?

[little badger]

yeas j have was an lvl 50 hunter witzh over 150 skill points

[steel comet]

It's a bug. I heard it happens every now and then.

[little badger]

crytek hasn't written anything about it yet?+

[visual sentinel]

Weird glitch, they need to patch it immediately

[unborn dagger]

Indeed

[sterile sentinel]

@real bobcat regarding your suggestion about the solo self rez
while yes the current system isn't the best and can be very annoying it is counterable with different utility and makes you have to be more cautious of your kills (I usually use concertina traps) so imo the time between revives should be nerfed but it shouldn't be changed past that.
and the 1 rez thing you suggested like do we really need to nerf solo players? they're already outnumbered and always at a disadvantage and the self rez gives them an opportunity to compete in multi-team fights without playing super defensively/campy such as using Mosin Sniper with Spitzer and sniping

[late quartz]

tbh it seems nearly impossible to address Necro's issues without it ultimately being a "nerf" to solo players.

Realistically... yeah solo does need a nerf, not because it's OVERPOWERED but because the way they chose to empower solo players detracts from the game in a lot of ways and breaks a lot of existing design conventions.
Does it need to be nerfed into the ground? No, probably not, but if we're being honest, any opportunity to self revive as a solo is an INSANE buff compared to the game prior to self necro. On the net even if solo necro sees major nerfs, it'll still be an incredible buff to solos to have the option at all.

[hollow raft]

It's not exactly the case that one feels trapped, but that neither team is moving to create any event, it's like in a fighting game if both players decided to pull back and hold up defensive stances.
Surely either player or team could throw an attack, but by doing so, they're exposing themselves by unguarding/peeking to throw that shot/attack and taking a risk, so now neither player is attempting to take a risk until the timer forces them to do so

Regardless of the common shotguns-defending and rifles-blockading scenario, if we were to dismiss the weapon strengths/weaknesses, then players have still been choosing to stalemate often even if it may be a rifle-defending and rifle-blockading scenario

[hollow raft]

shortening the match time wouldn't be encouraging one team or the other to move against tactical advantage, but to resolve the victor quicker
by just reducing standstill times completely

Fighting games have penalties that set in for playing too defensively or just trying to bide time

We can't neceesarily "force" people to move by judging if they're being too defensive, but lowering the match timer won't allow those willing to wait out 20 minutes at a standstill to wait out 20 minutes. They could still standstill if they would like to, but at least reduce it to 5-10 minutes or so out of the total match time

Games shouldn't be a stamina challenge of "Who has more time to waste in their day to play a match to its maximum 45 minutes"
If we didn't need to play to the procrastinator's strategy of waiting until the last 3 minutes of 45 minutes to make or react to a play, regardless of win or loss, the games would cycle much faster

[analog willow]

The last 8-10 minutes of a match are about ensuring a safe extract, as often it can take five minutes to run straight there. 20 minutes isn't enough time to accomplish everything a match has to offer.

Shortening the match will not have your desired effect of making players "play faster", as the reason for the slow play is that their Hunter and it's weapons have value that they don't want to lose upon death.

Additionally, shortening the match length will increase the amount of extraction campers, which no one likes😋

[empty oasis]

Beetle explosion will clear as much tina as a dynamite stick

[empty oasis]

It's always funny to me that in almost all cases that I've seen, the people arguing for a timer decrease are the same people that won't push into a lair and instead complain of campers while camping themselves

.

#game-ideas message

No, people don't really want these items. Every one of those posts are overwhelmingly downvoted

[unborn smelt]

Well let my try to explain again. Quickswapp allowed diffrent unintended things to be applied to all guns, among those was removal of recoil due to swapping, but also insanely fast TTK, yes they reduced the TTK a bit, however nowhere near as much as it should be if they "entirely removed" QS, swappoing to a secondary to seal the deal faster than waiting for a second shot of some of the slower primaries is still very much intended and possible, just not with the unintended side effects like cutting short animations and recoil.

That's also why having guns with a potentially higher TTK than old QS is not strange - becuse having it on a single or just a few guns, makes it more easily balancable than having it a possibility, in the past even somewhat neccessity to do it on all guns (people even QS from a weapon to swapp back to the same gun to cancel the recoil for example)

Part of balancing of the drilling is it having the fast 2 tap, but after those 2 shots there's a long pause because you either need to reaload, swithc modes or swapp to a secondary with very high sway post swapp, which was not what happened with QS in the past, there you started off ususually with a high power rifle round, and followed with an insanely fast Uppercut shot, which also canceled the recoil of the first weapon, and then you had 5 more rounds of full power Uppercut at the uppercuts back then great RoF of 40Rpm available to followup. All that being with the reliability of 130+ long ammo range and falloff guns, where as the drilling is held back by being one of the weaker medium ammo cartriges and the rest of the stuff i explained above.

[unborn smelt]

We just need mechanics that force people to do shit.
Yeah i'll have to disagree on that one already. IMO with a tactical sandbox game like Hunt, the only thing forcing the other players to moove outside of their pace, should be the skill of their opponents.

I'm personally simply not a fan of people demanding the game make other teams act as fast as you want them to. If enough other people enjoy the long, tactical parts of the game, so be it. if others don't, they either need to learn to outskill them, or just leave for the next game. Crytek does provide new tools to try and breach (flashes, decoy fusees were one of those, toolboxes to give people more reliable ways to replenish tactical options, some of the more recent ones were the beetle, worldspawns for consumables and saddlebags), as well as give people the option to leave at every point.

Tools to use are fine - the game forcing people to move because people are to scared to move themselves is not IMO.

[unborn smelt]

I like the idea of having a few destructible structures as options tho

talked a bout it in the past a few times as dynamite buffs - like here #latest-update-discussion message

[trail carbon]

@dull prawn Regardless of the other stuff, I don't think people who burn after the "surrender" should be punished. I'm going to burn regardless. Sorry, I'm not letting you keep your hunter and gear for free after you've lost.

[dull prawn]

I believe that's a pretty toxic mindset to have but it's pretty clear you and I aren't going to agree on this so I see no point in even trying to argue my case

[turbid hound]

i think that the main reason people burn enemies is make them out of game for good.
dead hunter is harmless hunter.
if one can resurrect, then he can shoot me in the back, and i'm not letting this to happen

and "lose fair and square" means losing your hunter, so...

[dull prawn]

Hence why I suggested the 100 meter range + 1 minute timer on ressurect for downed hunters. Hell, you could go a step further and make it so that you can't revive until the player that downed you has left the match, just to be ultra sure they won't stand back up and shoot you again. The point of this is that it gives players a way to "lose" without it being as bad of a defeat.

Playing solo is already a massive disadvantage, even with self-revive, having nobody to cover you when you get downed and being at the mercy of whatever players are nearby means more often than not, getting downed is a game over anyway. Self-revive is only really useful if you're far away when you die or there's enough chaos around you that you won't get instantly gunned down the moment you stand up. Mostly, though, it allows you to get back up and try to salve some health/extract safely once the fight's over.

Being forced to leave a game minus health bars and, often, weapons, with no bounty to speak of, is usually enough punishment for a lost game imo. You need to spend your trait points on getting your health back instead of getting stronger, you'll be out of pocket on any consumables you used, and often times you'll have your guns swiped by the team that downed you. All of that is enough of an incentive not to die. Losing everything should be reserved for being too persistant and greedy - risking it all to revive and fight back even when the odds are against you, high risk, high reward.

Hell, we could even stack penalties onto players who surrender, if that's not enough - lower payout or some kind of debuff to XP gain, whatever the case may be that still makes it a satisfying "loss" without forcing everybody to resort to instaburning.

[turbid hound]

Playing solo is harder and riskier in it's base, and should stay so, there is a reason why Hunt have Underdog bonus.

100m + 1 minute changes nothing, because that only delays shooting my back. Blocking revive is stupid, because downed player will be forced to wait until team that killed him is out of game, which can take up to the end of a game and i guess no one is gonna wait 10-30 minutes on the "You are down".

All you want, is to make solo play less riskier than playing in team, which is stupid. You lost game, you lose hunter, it is the way it is and should be.
No penalty will be sufficient to make it somewhat equal to losing your hunter, and losing one is one of the main features of this game.

Solo necro is strong as it is.

[dull prawn]

You misunderstand the idea behind my suggestion - my goal is to reduce the encouragement to instaburn, a tactic that has been considered toxic and unfun since the game's inception. The problem with solo revive as it stands is, while it's a fun and otherwise well-balanced mechanic that makes solo play actually viable (albeit still more of a challenge, as it should be) it has had the side-effect of encouraging instaburning as the default tactic.

The "Surrender" mechanic basically allows properly win fights against solo players without needing to resort to instaburning just to keep them down. It's meant as a last resort, a way to show that you've accepted your loss and the winning team can safely move on from you. Even if you get back up after they leave, you're at bare minimum a one-tap to pretty much any long ammo gun, and often times worse off than that. Dying as solo still has major consequences, even with this mechanic

[empty oasis]

the point of this is that it gives players a way to "lose" without it being as bad of a defeat

So you want extra protections that teams don't have?

No, Hunt is structured around perma death and this is just not a good feature to implement

[dull prawn]

teams have that protection, it's called "being in a team"

[turbid hound]

You still want to lose a fight and keep your hunter. I just cant understand your words any other way.

Yes, instaburn is kinda toxic and somewhat unfun, but it is a viable tactic in a fight. Body burn, enemy is stressed. If you think that burning should not be used in a game, then you probably better to find another game.

[empty oasis]

And running solo you knowingly go without that protection

[dull prawn]

it's pretty clear that the majority agree with y'all and I don't see the point in trying to argue this case any further, my goal was always to reduce the reliance on instaburning as a tactic, and perhaps there's a better way to do that, since folk seem to dislike my idea for it

[empty oasis]

Also, calling instaburning, whether talking solo or enemy team, toxic is as idiotic as saying that going for headshots is unfair or tina bombing a body is mean

Against solos, they're already dead. It makes no difference if you instaburn or watch the body ready to shoot for 5 mins

Against teams, it puts pressure on the teammates and creates openings that you can exploit. If you aren't doing everything you can to turn a fight to your advantage (memeing aside) then I don't know why you're fighting to begin with

[dull prawn]

we're gonna have to agree to disagree on instaburning being toxic or not, I've been playing this game too long and seen that particular argument crop up too many times to be interested in going over it again, I know where I stand on it

[royal horizon]

Solo players already have a shit ton of advantages, do you also want a consolation prize ?

[dull prawn]

I'm done talking about this, sorry

[empty oasis]

I mean, they have a ton of cons as well but yeah, this would be a step too far

[royal horizon]

the only con I see is that they have "less fire power" due to not being a team, but I feel like that's not the point here

anyway

I really hope Crytek doesn't make the game even more easy for solos because it's already incredibly frustrating as is

[empty oasis]

Cons: Less firepower, less sustain for extended fights, less vision, harder time fighting mobs, harder boss fights, less healing, harder ambushes, less secure rez, more vulnerable to fire, no red skull rez, less traps

Pro: better stealth, easier positioning, easier to shake mobs, longer serpent, no distance limit to rez, easier looting resupply, faster travel, better conduit value

Just some off the top

[royal horizon]

you forgot the most powerful two :
The MMR advantage and free extract when not burned or trapped (they can still survive most with traits)

[empty oasis]

Eh, I mean yeah? But you could say the same with one of a trio fucking off somewhere until the winning team leaves

The mmr advantage is real but it's also able to be countered by the numbers. I would kill way less teams if they pushed and made it a 1v3 instead of a 1v1,1,1

[ripe basalt]

@pearl summit Per our new #feedback formatting and rule list, please do not post duplicate feedback, especially back-to-back. I deleted the redudant post and keep your more detailed one available.

[maiden pelican]

MMR advantage with the current matchmaking is a dubious claim

Seen a random 4 star trio go up on an invite 6 star trio

[steel comet]

Pretty much. I've met trios of 6 stars when I'm 5* solo.

[dull prawn]

its especially bad on low pop servers like OCE

I play like a 4 star, but every time I actually get to 4 stars I get dumped into lobbies full of teams of 5 and 6 star players and just get shunted back down to the 3 star lobbies

it's like clockwork

[maiden pelican]

Loadout cost as some sort of capped multiplier on matchmaking would be cool

Course they'd have to balance weapon prices then even if not the economy

[hot vigil]

Mjah, would also feel a little sorry for a 3 star who just want to be try some more stronger weapons and then get clowned on by higher ranks

[maiden pelican]

That's why it'd be capped in some way. Just a small multiplier

[hot vigil]

But still the same issue, they will put against people who is just flatout better than them.

[ripe basalt]

The duality of the Hunt Showdown Community

[brisk timber]

Ah it just showed who the real chads are voting for no crosshairs

[ripe basalt]

The almost equal votes and the back-to-back suggestions opposite of each other

[quick dragon]

Dealing with bleed/fire ammo is obnoxious as a solo

I get it for bows, crossbows etc that’s fine they have other draw backs

[visual sentinel]

They have other draw backs?

Get it?

draw backs

[brisk timber]

But what he says isnt untrue though

It indeed does put extreme pressure on the solo if he starts bleeding or burning

But i dont see any easy or needed fix for it aswell tbh

[visual sentinel]

Anytime I bleed a solo I rush that mf fo free

eat that mf lunch

[brisk timber]

erm okay? good for you i guess

[knotty ore]

"Learn to outskill them" skill is a non-issue my entire argument is based on the assumption that skill is roughly equal. Its not about forcing to move youve misunderstood my point entirely. Its about providing enough tactical options so that the game doesn't devolve into everyone just waiting for someone to lose patience. Which is at least half my games and its really really boring. This what it looks like when people are playing optimally, which is to say the current game design enforces this.

Its not a slow, tactical gameplay. Its a team waiting inside the bounty house and 1-2 teams waiting outside. No one is rotating, no one is doing anything. Why? Because approaching the bounty house is instant death for one team and leaving the bounty house is a perfect tactical option since you can see everyone, but most Hunters aren't even potty trained. Can't expect them to execute tactics.

So, you ever implemented something to reinforce hunters leaving, or you make breaching not so disadvantageous.

Or, leave it the way it is and make a map that has rain, fog, night all at the same time. Hunters love that shit.

[brisk timber]

The dissonance between players wanting less stalemates and more fluid gameplay
But also not wanting to not give up on their near ninja like stealth with bat like hearing
is also problematic

[knotty ore]

I push everyone because I get bored. I just also happen to not have room temp IQ and I realize just how bad that is strategically since at my MMR is about 70% likely to get me killed.

[brisk timber]

yea at somepoint more often than not it only boils down to who is more patient to endure shit gameplay

[knotty ore]

Which is a design flaw super easily remedied. One suggestion is to allow us to create extra sightlines into the bounty building with tools. This way we can try to get picks before pushing.

[brisk timber]

reactive player have such a strong tool with how hiding in this game works and how the sound is so omnipresent.
Sitting still and listening to your surrounding gives a huge intel advantage.
Whereas active players have to rely solely on facecheck things or use limited niche tools.

While beeing at extremely high risk

[knotty ore]

Oh man you are way too chad and seem to be playing exactly the same game I am.

Which is why its so comical that people want to nerf flash as its the only tool that gives you a fighting chance at playing aggressively.

[brisk timber]

Yea thats really a point. The best compounds for both parties are the ones with cracks and many entries

[knotty ore]

Even to use flash you usually need to gather intel first

pointless to throw that shit unless you already know where enemy is

Which is why I was thinking they have pre-determined walls in every bounty building that can be destroyed with dynamite just like doors. Make waxed dynamite stick to surfaces just so it can easily be used if the hole is somewhere where there isn't a platform.

Smaller the building, less destructible walls.

Since its easier than ever to place like 100 kill traps, this would at least serve to create some sightlines so the bounty team can be fired at.

[quick dragon]

I think we need a way of either seeing the weather conditions ahead of time, or having the ability to last minute switch a loadout/hunter.

I’m still seeing a lot of people leave fog or and sometimes rain. Myself included for fog if I’ve brought a marksman/sniper. I’m outta there 9 times out of 10

[queen jungle]

People avoiding a challenge is sad to see

[brisk timber]

I dont know man. You can blindfold yourself and play only by sound. No?

Ofc a game needs challenges that basically function as the rails and boundaries by which the player is somewhat guided, led on or his skillset tested.
But having this challenges be random often feels rather outlandish for most people.
Going in with a $700 Sniper and than having pitch black night or fog feels rather anti climatic in my opinion.
I dont deny that you can still get a good chunk out of it if youre open about it but i would compare it to something like when people like to play a game with randomizer mods. Its not something for everyone.

Aswell as some people already are challenged enough with the gameplay as it is.
Or wanna enjoy some leisure time and know what they are in for.

[analog willow]

I think it’s more that the “sense blockers” (visual or auditory noise) can create frustration. I liken it to trying to have a phone conversation while there is a group of people talking loudly right next to you. It’s not that the people talking are bad, it just gets frustrating when you’re trying to hear your own conversation. Similar to a “Hangry” mood

[brisk timber]

On the other hand i feel like the overall atmosphere and feel of a certain weather condition would definitely benefit from complimented loadouts to this specific weather.
As some months ago wildcards were only night you could see how people adapted their loadouts and you started to see flashlights, flares, bows and all the other stuff way more.

Its somewhat of skill and part of a Hunt aswell to adapt to your surrounding

[unborn smelt]

Its not about forcing to move youve misunderstood my point entirely.
@knotty ore I've quite literally put the point where you said it's about the game forcing people to act, in quotes.

See the pic below - it's the third sentence
EDIT (forgot to make this a reply so i'm @-ing you instead)

[queen jungle]

Going in with a $700 Sniper and than having pitch black night or fog
... is a risk you willingly take when you equip a sniper rifle.

[brisk timber]

...is a risk i have to take.

And to add: its not written in stone rules cant change.

[unborn smelt]

that's why i said i'm absolutely fine with adding mechanics so people have more ways to approach the situation - it just shouldn't be actually forcing one team to make a move

If you mean the same thing we do agree in general and it's likely just the finer gradient of how it should work where we disagree

[queen jungle]

Loadout committment has been a design principle from the vers beginning. You take certain equipment, you may end up in unfavourable situations where different equipment may have served you better. It's luck in the end.

A smart team will choose their loadouts so they can cover as many eventualities as possible during a match.

[brisk timber]

Another point is
With all the problem about small player base, unfair matches, long queue times or whatever
You would think making the player comfortable in tackling the match would be a wise thing to do
Having players outright leave a match going for extract doesnt help at all

[brisk timber]

Perma death was a design principle aswell
And now we have red skull revive

so what?

[queen jungle]

Yeah, it's unfortunate things are getting easier and easier in Hunt

Getting rid of all the things that made it challenging

[brisk timber]

I dont mind you having an opinion and taste for some design over the other
But dont make it sound like stuff is set in stone

[unborn smelt]

then again the game is also about overcoming the situations you're dealt with and not about always being in the same most optimal setting.
That's why IMO there needs to be a compromise, between keeping the tension and added challenge of for example fog or night, but not having it be so prominent it's too much

and ofc personal taste here matters a lot

for some having one night/fog when they wanna snipe is too much, where as others are just fine or even prefer the challenge

[queen jungle]

It's not set in stone, but I have every right to argue against your proposition to change things

[unborn smelt]

and it ultimately could also be a balance decision to keep the, in the past absolutely dominant long ammo a bit in check

[brisk timber]

Yea but i think we can somewhat differentiate between challenges i know ahead and challenges that come randomly at me.
Its a bit like with rng mechanics
Some people like them more or less than others

[unborn smelt]

because they balance wise might have greater maximal performance in the right conditions, but are still suboptimal in the wrong condition

[unborn smelt]

But Hunt is very much built on RNG as a core challenge

the spawns for you, for AI, for ressources, for Bosses are all randomized with the intention of having people overcome "new-ish" scenarios every game

[brisk timber]

Well like said before
What Hunt was and what its becoming is constantly up for change anyway

[unborn smelt]

It is - but one shouldn't be surprised if large parts of the hardcore fanbase that stuck with hunt for 5+ years don't like that then

[hollow lake]

Hunt is very RNG. It's why I don't think Skill has a lot to do with it. You could be the best player in a region and still end up getting sandwich between two 3 man teams and get wiped. The Skill Ceiling is Low in Hunt (compared to different games). Really all you need to do is know how to predict players, your shots and have general game sense.

[brisk timber]

I have been here for some time now and people always come with that strange argument some time or another
"But thats not Hunt" "Hunt is this and that"

[unborn smelt]

I would have loved hunt to become a truely hardcore game - but i also love hunt getting a bit more casual the way it ended up becoming

both have their up and downside

[unborn smelt]

to a degree that argument has some merit...

it's not a be all end all argument ofc

[brisk timber]

Yea definitely
I mean
If we take Red Skull revive for example
Sure it makes it less punishing to die. But having to leave the game while your friends game on for another 10? 20? 30min?

thats shit design

[unborn smelt]

but hunt does want to stay at least somewhat on the tactical / hardcore side

[hollow lake]

I started playing in Late-2020. Before all the custom ammo meta and generic loadouts. Back when people did experiment more. I think that's a major problem a Meta of Bleed/Posion Ammo has been created and it's really making fights repitive and boring.

I still swear by stock ammo

Maybe fire ammo if I'm going to barrel troll people

I remember setting up in Prison with two of my mates and we got a sightline on a red barrel. A three man runs through this choke point and we all shoot the barrel at the same time. Kill that entire team.

[unborn smelt]

Sure but that's why the "solution" wasn't just make revives unlimited without a downside - but a special redskuill revive which is higher risk than a regular revive

I'm a fan of compromises - i'd be fine with people being able to choose to not play night, fog, etc. (if the splitting of queues allows for it)

[hollow lake]

Honestly It would of been better to put people down to 1hp when picking up a red skull dead team memeber

Real Risk/Reward sort of thing

[unborn smelt]

but i think standing up to the challenge should then be rewarded appropriately if you choose to do it anyway or even because of the challenge

[brisk timber]

oh yea. it was just in response to .Finall saying "its unfortunate things get easier" in response to red skull

This example shows that its sometimes a tradeoff betweenn acessibility and hardcore gameplay.
And i think as a dev atleast youre most of the time better off having the people play than having them drop into some inactive state.

[unborn smelt]

better is debatable - I've see too many people overly rely on easy OHK's on revived people (in general not just redskull) to the point they feel entitled to basically be gifted a win or free kills, which i'm no fan of

[brisk timber]

So even in the regard of acessibility and engage players into the game - planned loadouts could help with player retention, serverload and whatnot

[unborn smelt]

IMO it should very much be on the "advantaged" team, aka the one that just downed someone, to make a moove and act on their advantage, instead of resting on it knowing they don't loose the advantage for waiting it out... (and then often complain about the stalemates on top)

because of that i'm very much in favor of mechanics that punish resting on ones advantage, by having the advantage dwindle if not acted upon in a timely manner

[brisk timber]

Agree
On the other hand i wished the revive timer would be rather longer

3sec is really short to make a move

even more so when you play a rifle

[unborn smelt]

I'm very certain it's longer than 3 sec...

well come to think about it

maybe i'm wrong

I should be able to try in the tutorial

[brisk timber]

standard revive is 3 sec i think
Dunno if redskull takes longer

On the other hand reviving in the open with longer revive time would be even more suicidal

[unborn smelt]

i wouldn't mind it being a bit longer (if it isn't already)

[brisk timber]

so yea - its problematic

[unborn smelt]

but i like that it's a possibility mid combat

[unborn smelt]

Just timed in in the tutorial and got ~4. something seconds - so i'd guess it's about 4 sec for a regular revive

[brisk timber]

ah i see
that also makes sense in regard to self revive once being 4sec timer

(which i would love to have back that way )

@crystal nacelle
First of all: was a fun match at Sweetbell Flour against you guys! 😛

You guys are premade right? So yea basically you can get matched with higher stars randoms.
Thats a mechanic to compensate randoms not having the same advantages of being premade in the firstplace (constant communication, knowing each other, having known tactics)

[knotty ore]

Just semantics. Force people to act means give them options where sitting and doing nothing is a poor choice. Which is essentially forcing them to act.

[brisk timber]

nah i would rather say what you mean is "encourage"

but yea. we need tools to encourage people to make moves

[knotty ore]

I wouldn't be against a hard timer on the boss building where if they stay inside too long something disadvantageous happens. I'd actually love that, but you know too much crying will happen.

[brisk timber]

...well thats basically the match timer?

[knotty ore]

Like boss fills the bounty house with smoke that causes coughing after like 10m post banish

[brisk timber]

That would put shotguns in such an crazy disadvantage tho

[vital fractal]

That’s forcing people out of the lair, not giving options

[brisk timber]

Everybody would camp outside with sniper and wait for the bosslair to become ground zero

[knotty ore]

You can't even snipe in a game that has 70% rain occurance. Give me a break, I haven't seen a single sniper since the event started. Everyone running shotguns

[brisk timber]

I have seen some the last games already
And even tho if theres no sniper still it would heavily benefit rifles as a whole

Im with you about more tools - but they need to encourage people and not force people out into unfavourable situations. People would exploit it too much.

[knotty ore]

I don't have the answers honestly, all I know is that the current implementation is pretty trash at high MMR. You get games where people dont do anything. I'VE HAD AN ENTIRE BOWL OF CEREAL, GOTTEN UP SEVERAL TIMES TO PISS, because bounty team doesn't want to extract and its suicide to push them and their many traps.

4* games are probably pretty fun though.

[hallow pasture]

@twilit bronze Remove Confirmation for adding a health bar in Respec

Just do it in roster, no question popup.

[little jackal]

it's only 45 minutes, r ur kidneys okay? 😄

[knotty ore]

I drink a lotta beer

So who knows

[brisk timber]

To be fair this often comes down to people not making room for the bounty team to have a reasonable chance to leave.
You gotta have to make space to lure them out or atleast fight the other teams outside.
You cant expect the bounty team who eventually play a shotgun loadout to push outside into 3 teams of riflers or so

[knotty ore]

Naw, they have vision. They'll just run the other way and you won't be able to catch up.

[brisk timber]

So id rather have we getting offensive tools than pressing the defensive into suicide

[knotty ore]

I've tried bugging out, its too predictable. They just run the other way.

[brisk timber]

You basically saying you dont wanna give up all your advantages but expect the other to do so?

isnt that a bit egoistic tho

[knotty ore]

No, I want mechanics that make it 60 lose 40 win. Right now its like 80 lose 20 win.

[hallow pasture]

If you really want to force people out of a lair, it should set on fire over time after bounties have been picked up...

But ye.. that's unfair in another way

Just deal with it.

[analog willow]

Seems like rain is on a 10% chance of occurrence lately

[brisk timber]

If we start with that stuff we soon have nobody doin the boss anymore and everybody waiting outside like vultures

[knotty ore]

Its not 0, so I don't even want to play anymore lawl

[analog willow]

I could tell you hadn't logged in in a while😋

[brisk timber]

You sound like a sniper main

[knotty ore]

Naw, like I said you just need to be able to destroy walls. Create ways to see inside without needing to go inside.

[knotty ore]

I run sparks sniper for flavor occasionally, but I mostly run bow loadouts

[brisk timber]

Thats an offensive tool. I can get along with that tho 👍

[hallow pasture]

Being overly sarcastic there.

[unborn smelt]

If you want to disadvantage it so much it's basically forcing them to act - i still disagree. Both should be valid, and IMO the better skill is which should win, be that pushing out against the odds or pushing in against the odds. But personally i'm no fan of making one much more disadvantaged than the other to the point you essentially force one side to moove

[knotty ore]

Nothing has changed though, that's the issue with this game. The devs think their formula is perfect. Which is why any time another game comes out, Hunt numbers plummet.

[analog willow]

Can only code so fast. We get updates pretty regularly

[knotty ore]

Right now one is SOOOOO much more advantageous than the other, you are forced to NOT move. Given absolutely equal skill, the defending bounty team will win at least like 70% of the time when pushed. Unless you are in low elo then anything can happen.

[brisk timber]

Not really. I believe that this is what could actually happen if youre not allowed to hold a compound anymore for a longer time.

[hallow pasture]

I was sarcastic... not serious about it, but ye.. if people don't stop bitching about it, it might just happen

[knotty ore]

I'd rather have devs try a bunch of different things and if people don't like it, they change it.

But, they don't really alter the formula ever

[analog willow]

They've improved the playerbase year over year for nearly 6 years now. Name another game that has accomplished that. Fortnite and minecraft are too easy. Hard mode. Go

[unborn smelt]

the defending bounty team will win at least like 70% of the time when pushed.
sure - "when pushed" being the keyword...

It's because one side gives up their advantageous position, in this case the pushers

but that's why it's good noone forces you to push

[hallow pasture]

Hell let loose? Warframe? (that was easy to name)

[analog willow]

They just did that with rain. Inferno. Serpents moon.

[crystal nacelle]

yeah whatever, 3,2KDA + 2,16 and another 6*...I'm sick of beeing forced to raise the KDA of those players Crytek

[hardy coral]

The events are experimental, all of the perks (other than instinct) make offensive play stronger.

[unborn smelt]

the timer will eventually always force the ones inside to push out and give up that advantageous position

[knotty ore]

Changing weather isn't really altering the core gameplay in any way. Bounty hunt has been largely the same no?

[unborn smelt]

and one can pull a bait and switch like getting out of range and reengaging when they leave

[knotty ore]

Lol yeah, but no one wants to wait 30+ minutes while doing nothing I got shit to do

[analog willow]

If those are your closest matchups, those are your closest matchups. Your opponent is literally in this discord 😋 Just gotta get more people playing! It's a small community

[knotty ore]

This is just you saying, "give up bounty"

because they will run in the other direction and you won't catch up

[unborn smelt]

tbh i'd argue, more people will be up to camp 30 min

[analog willow]

I'd rather them not change bounty hunt much. What changes would you like to see there?

[unborn smelt]

knowing now they don't need to camp 45 min anymore

[unborn smelt]

that entirely depends on your position, loadout and work you did before

you can place trapps to stop an extraction or slow the speed at which they can extract, you can split up and cover multiple exits, not always is there a diffrent direction to take to an exit either

[analog willow]

I think you're overlooking all the things they've released (new weapons constantly, new bosses, new weather, they're working on maps and custom modes) They make a lot of stuff

!plans

[marsh garden]

Some of the plans for the future of Hunt with references:

Servers are the number one priority to address in 2023 - https://youtu.be/PkrXpJRvyiw?t=756
New map is in the works, will be a new biome - https://youtu.be/PkrXpJRvyiw?t=2439
New boss this summer, a wild target outside of compounds - https://youtu.be/PkrXpJRvyiw?t=1285
Update to Cryengine 5.11, DX12 and current gen console support - https://youtu.be/PkrXpJRvyiw?t=2292
New modes and custom lobbies are considered for 2024 - https://youtu.be/PkrXpJRvyiw?t=2506

[unborn smelt]

you can easily redown someone that lost a bar or two when they need to run too

[analog willow]

They even release new videos on a near weekly basis

[unborn smelt]

there's a good amount of ways to deal with that situation other than camp for 30 min - but with a 30 min timer, even that will be more likely to happen

because you get the payoff of camping at only 30 min invested vs 45 min before

[knotty ore]

Being able to destroy certain walls in boss building. More scouting options that don't make you sit there and be useless. Better map design in general. Scope glint to separate the good snipers from bad ones. More interactivity with clues. Collecting them should give you something useful, like recon options. Goals on the map that aren't exclusively bounty related. I would love something in the middle of the map to contest. Say some kind of totem that takes time to capture, or a weapons cache with high quality guns. Equalized settings so that there isn't a huge disparity between people who can see everything and people who keep complaining about Headsman on reddit. Allowing people to queue for high vis, v low vis maps. People leaving rain is dumb, but I totally understand no one wanting to play that trash.

[analog willow]

You should make some suggestion - ideas posts for those!

[knotty ore]

I mean I'm not going to even play Hunt until rain is in its own contract.

So, who cares.

Just saying

[steel comet]

It's random map and weather.

With a random contract

Been that way since they removed selected contracts and spawns.

Wildcard contract was a testing phase. Only up for weekends and then for some of the events.

[knotty ore]

Yeah it was really great being able to enjoy Hunt when contracts were split. The reason no one played the other contract was because it was fundamentally broken.

[steel comet]

I think it's silly to only expect day maps when this game hasn't been a day map only.

[knotty ore]

So, now that crytek is forcing everyone to play absolutely terrible trash

Its hard to want to play

I guess I could just bail on every rain map

But, thats hardly a good experience for anyone

[analog willow]

I think you're feeling disapointed that specific things you would like have not been introduced, but that is the case with everyone. We have ideas we'd to see, and only a small number of people actually putting in the work to make it. Additionally, those people doing the work have their own ideas they'd like to see, so of course they are working on those first.

They are releasing content as fast as they can make it, and we get regular new content drops. It might not be the content you specifically want, but this is a speciel game where we are getting new content. Most games don't get that kind of love

[knotty ore]

Its not just day. Fog is fine. I just don't want to play rain ever. Or, night ever.

I like the lighter night time its fine

[steel comet]

See, night has always been part of the random contract

[knotty ore]

They've split it from the main contract it was the most fun I've ever had in Hunt

It was awsome to see that even with incentives no one wanted to play it

Instead of fixing it, Crytek is like

"lets force everyone to "enjoy" it.

"

[steel comet]

You'd be surprised looking at suggestions.

Apparently even Reddit also favours the low vis maps.

[knotty ore]

The people participating in here and on reddit are mostly a vocal minority

[steel comet]

(I don't use Reddit)

[analog willow]

Splitting the queues essentially cuts the available players you have to match with in half. That means more players experiencing unfair matchups, higher ping, and emptier matches

[knotty ore]

I would rather have fewer, high quality, games.

But, that's just me

High quality meaning not rain, or night

lawl

[analog willow]

Again, it's a very low drop now.

[steel comet]

Maybe you need some self improvement on low vis maps.

They aren't that bad

[knotty ore]

You mean run gamma filters like all the other 6 stars?

Sounds good brav

good advice

On normal vanilla settings, you lose against people who use enhancements. You straight up just lose on night maps. Nothing you can do against it unless you are willing to run them yourself. So, I'd rather just never play nighttime

seems rational

[steel comet]

Night map is vanilla though.

It's been there since forever

[knotty ore]

pivot

[steel comet]

Used to be darker even

[knotty ore]

hard pivot

You aren't getting my point

Vanilla settings meaning no enhancements

[steel comet]

You just got a different view than what hunt actually is.

[knotty ore]

No, I have a realistic view of what its like to play night maps at high mmr

its awful

I never want to do it

Because to win, I need to use the same gamma enhancements as everyone else.

[steel comet]

People had a choice to play selected contract to get days. -With an option to pick spawn location-
But people chose to play only random contract.

[knotty ore]

Yeah and when contracts were split and night had its own, no one wanted to play that trash

[steel comet]

No one played it back when it was day too

[knotty ore]

So, listen to the people

[rotund obsidian]

i dunno what you mean, before the end of the last weekend w/ night contract it was poppin

[knotty ore]

It was empty

They rejoined them because it was empty

[crystal plume]

I don't want to queue for exclusively night, but I don't mind night every now and then randomly

And I'm sure a lot of others felt like that too

Especially since people knew that there were less people in that queue, which drove even less people to even try queueing it

[knotty ore]

Well, it seems like mostly everyone preferred to never play night when contracts were split. Listen to the people.

[steel comet]

I wouldn't want to queue for day map only either

[knotty ore]

That's the beauty of choice

everyone gets to do what they want

[rotund obsidian]

I mean, they definitely weren't empty, but I do feel like a lot of those people were just after the extra bounty reward because it was insane

[knotty ore]

You can easily do high vis, low vis, and random contracts where random merges with either.

[analog willow]

Agreed. Stumbling upon map conditions is magical at times. After a string of daylight runs, getting a serpent's moon is just amazing

[rotund obsidian]

and quite frequently it would be half-filled lobbies, which was unfortunate (but at least it was always single bounty)

[steel comet]

I don't think the extra money was during the event?

[rotund obsidian]

I'm referring to the actual night-only contract before tide of shadows started

[crystal plume]

I don't like night gameplay wise personally and prefer rain over it, but it's not because of coping about people using gamma settings etc, I don't really have a hard time regarding that, but I just don't like how slow it makes people play

But I still don't want to see it entirely gone

[knotty ore]

When they were split. I was legit doing quests in that queue because it was empty. Getting 3 meatheads in the middle of the map was easy as fuck because no one was ever in that contract. lol

"poppin"

so poppin

[steel comet]

I liked when they removed the wildcard from the event. The matchmaking got better, I kept meeting people of the lower MMR in wildcard every match.

[analog willow]

Exactly. All the more reason not to split them haha

[hardy coral]

idk why they kept the rain in the game post event when it's obviously not ready.

They've removed inferno to never be seen again but the rain, which people complained about more, stays in with a tweak?

[rotund obsidian]

I only played it during irl night but by the last few weekends I was getting full, or at least half-full lobbies even when main queue was dead

[knotty ore]

All the more reason to improve those maps because there is something seriously wrong with them.

[analog willow]

Emptier matches, higher ping, greater disparity in player skill

[steel comet]

#latest-update-discussion had it's share of inferno complaints

[knotty ore]

Higher ping is a joke. I get Chinese people on US West and you can just tell they are Chinese by how laggy thier movement is.

[crystal plume]

I don't know if people complained "more" about rain tbh, I saw a lot of complaining about audio and visibility when inferno was a thing as well

If anything rain has been a highly requested ToD since the beginning

[knotty ore]

People generally don't like being forced to play map types

[crystal plume]

So there's a ton of people excited about it still

[knotty ore]

People played 24/7 Dust2 for like 30 years for a reason.

[steel comet]

You're still signing up for a random contract and map

Which include random weather/ TOD

[rotund obsidian]

Freely choosing region with a 225 ping cap was a mistake

[knotty ore]

I feel like there is a reason that Crytek doesn't do polls

Or even allow them on reddit

If people were allowed to vote, you'd see what I mean

[crystal plume]

Reddit isn't even controlled by them

[knotty ore]

Push a poll ingame like they did once

[crystal plume]

It's still essentially a separate entity from Crytek

Unlike discord

[knotty ore]

Push a poll ingame like they did before about which maps people want to play.

[crystal plume]

And they have done polls here

[steel comet]

They had a poll for inferno I think

[knotty ore]

Push a poll ingame like they did before about which maps people want to play and you'll see

[steel comet]

Or two

[analog willow]

They just did a poll after the event ended

[knotty ore]

Haven't logged in since I finished it

Was it about the maps?

[analog willow]

We know. We can tell.

[analog willow]

Yes.

[knotty ore]

Going to go log in to vote

[steel comet]

It's probably over by long

[analog willow]

Already ended, unfortunately

[knotty ore]

I just see, "wormbite out now" which is a skin I've had for like 6 months at least

lol

Aw shit I bet you almost everyone missed it playing BG3

[steel comet]

Or maybe more people enjoyed the rain

[analog willow]

Initially, I feel like everyone loved the rain. Even my friends that hate and complain about rain, liked it initially. I think it was just far too frequent, and people got "Sense block frustration" with not being able to hear for extended periods of time due to a noise in their ears

Edit: Plus reduced vision. So kind of a double whammy with rain

[hallow pasture]

I got used to it in the end, did give perfect times to push pretty unnoticed by sound.

[analog willow]

I love that aspect. Such a smart idea by the devs

[empty oasis]

That is my problem. Oversaturation in the rotation. Had it dropped to pre event night levels after the event I would have been perfectly happy with rain

[hallow pasture]

I mean, I had a clear day map with rotjaw...

They could've just changed the rain to pre-event maps too.

[analog willow]

It'd be great if there was a rain condition where the rain was on a random time duration, so we could get little splashes of heavy rain here and there, for a quick little advancements

[hallow pasture]

Just to fall whenever you don't need them

xd

[analog willow]

Exactly. Spice that fight up

[crystal plume]

Are you sure it wasn't dusk/sundown? Since those are also considered low visibility despite being somewhat bright in some areas

[hallow pasture]

Perhaps they call it dusk/sundown, light as day for me.. no fog anywhere, all clear all around.

[broken musk]

Rotjaw does indeed spawn on sundown

It is day, with an orange/pink dark tint

So visibility is slightly less, but still day

[outer ravine]

I haven't been unable to properly play the game at night for the last 4 months, servers turn into a ping mess.

[vital fractal]

Literally anyone after making a spelling mistake in this chat:

Entire argument goes down the drain

[unborn dagger]

Well your bad at hunt.

[empty oasis]

You're. Argument invalid

[trail oasis]

Told it and put it in suggestion. Event weather is nice but getting forced to go with it every single map just burn peoples from it. Been on a break of hunt for 2 week and still didnt feels to play it mainly cuz im burned of rain weather when initially i loved it...

They should just let peoples choose the weather they want tbh no downside only qol

[vital fractal]

This is literally the horses every time I don’t have beast face and I have the audacity to move within 50m of them

Seriously the way some sound traps react so unpredictably to certain movements and not others is insane

[karmic ivy]

Wow, they really need to make the horses stand up and play this on april fools day.

Brass, sunglasses and all

[jagged wagon]

@opaque glen this should be here, not there.

[opaque glen]

true

[opaque glen]

@crude wagon

[hardy coral]

Explosives are hardly OP, frag bombs are pretty balanced and bulwark makes all of the pure explosive ammo types close to useless.

[vital fractal]

Frag bombs are not balanced lmao

Especially with bulwark existing

Tied for best range and AoE + no mitigation perks from the main damage + heavy bleed no matter what (bloodless withstanding)