feedback-discussion

[trail carbon]

I mean, people don't use the dolch very much these days after it got "nerfed" even though it's probably one of the strongest weapons in the game still

[unborn smelt]

by what metric...

it's still a good gun - but it's way too expensive compared to similar options

[trail carbon]

I used to see it every single game, now I barely see it ever. Although, after this past update, I will say I have noticed it popping up again.

[trail carbon]

Well yeah, but money isn't really a factor

[unborn smelt]

It is.

it's not the only factor

[blazing oriole]

The only players high cost weapons effect is people that prestige, nobody else

[unborn smelt]

but price vs performance is still a factor for balancing

[trail carbon]

If you prestige, sure, but when I'm sitting on several hundreds of thousands of hunt dollars... it doesn't matter

Most people that I know have similar amounts of money

Except the two people that prestige

[blazing oriole]

😩

About to get P20, friend is P40, event burnt us both out because of the weapon challenges 😂

[unborn smelt]

If it matters for you is not what balance is about - it's about if it matters for the majority and if it matters enough so you can see it affect numbers

and that it does just fine

[blazing oriole]

Balance to developers is only about numbers, not about actual performance

[unborn smelt]

and currently you can get a baby Dolch in the Model 92 for a fraction of the price of a Dolch.

[blazing oriole]

"Are people bringing the expected number of weapons in? No? Change the weapons until they do"

[unborn smelt]

the price diffrence is massive while performance is not

[unborn smelt]

yes and no.

for the Dolch the Numbers were never an actual issue

it was nerfed because of player feedback not because it had too opressive numbers

and the Uppercut has remained OP for ages despite being stat wise the most imbalanced thing hunt had like ever

[trail carbon]

I don't really think price should be considered all that much when balancing weapons. Because then higher tier players (who have more money) will have better weapons always.

[unborn smelt]

it had over 50% playrates in some ELO levels

Stats ofc matter a tonn for balancing

but other factors are also factored in - sometimes even over the pure stats

[trail carbon]

Just make the uppercut a two slot like the big LeMat and bam, problem solved

[unborn smelt]

Absolutely - price shouldn't be the only or the main balance point.
we saw that doesn't work with the Uppercut and long ammo in general for ages

but we also know that incorporating price to finetune balance when it's roughly fine works out quite well

[unborn smelt]

I wouldn't say the Uppercut is a big problem right now. Yes it's still very poular, but that's fine.

but it used to be one for years

[hot vigil]

Balance reasons, makes fire bullets and sources have more utility.

[trail carbon]

I mean, I still thunk its a little bit too much. Compare it to sparks pistol, pax, or conversion, etc. And it's still waaaaaay better than those options

It's literally a one slot long ammo vetterli

And the vetterli is pretty good

[unborn smelt]

yeah it is still far better than those.

i could see it be bumped down a bit more

I just don't want it to "overcorrected" like some other things in the past

[trail carbon]

RIP bornheim

It's never recovered either

[shell cipher]

No...

[brisk timber]

i think thats somewhat of a paradox tho
the people claiming this and having this kinda money are not the people that run dolchs, avtos and mosins regularly to begin with

To have that kinda money in the first place usually stems from people playing cost effective loadouts and playing much free hunters

Ofc buying a dolch every now and then isnt a problem to one who has the money

but balance by price works in the way that players dont pick it every single round tho

[brisk timber]

Maybe it would be good if you couldnt find this gun in every second tower 😄

its strange to me that guns like uppercut or nitros can be found like at all

[blazing oriole]

TBH I wouldn't mind if Power weapons could only be found in raid, albeit at a reduced rate

[queen jungle]

anyone else just leave on start of match because too many barely visible maps in a row(fog, dark, rain, etc) and you just want to do clear day?

[trail carbon]

What classifies as a "power weapon"?

[wanton sable]

if im solo, yeah. but not because of the visibility of the map, i like night/rain.

[trail carbon]

Because Hunt isn't Quake, even though I love quake, I'd not love "power weapons" in hunt

[rotund obsidian]

getting shit on cause some dude found Avtomat 2 ingame would actually make me uninstall tbh

[knotty ore]

Long ammo has been fine for a long time. Uppercut has been fine for a long time too. I don't even run it ever because honestly new army fmj is just better for most engagements. If they are too far away for it, its probably best you don't shoot at them anyway lol

From a balance perspective the game is pretty balanced now that people aren't buying an avtomat every round. I don't think any gun is too good. Some are just kinda meh. Honestly, all the medium ammo weapons need a rework of some kind. They aren't bad perse, just either not worth the price, or generally have better alternatives.

[crystal plume]

Avtomat and nitro mainly

[trail carbon]

Eh... I guess...

[blazing oriole]

Sparks, Uppercut, Nitro, Avto, C&K, etc

Sorry I should have specified

[crystal plume]

Those do not fall under the general definion of "power weapons" that I've seen here

Never have I seen uppercut be considered a "power weapon", yet alone the sparks

[blazing oriole]

Sparks is the "I'm not like the other power weapons" of power weapons.

[crystal plume]

[trail carbon]

I think calling any of these weapons "power weapons" is silly. We shouldn't separate them into their own category. They should be balanced and in line with the rest of the weapons in the game.

You can buy them like every other weapon, therefore, not a power weapon. This isn't Quake

[blazing oriole]

Being able to buy power weapons doesn't keep them from being power weapons, it just lets you build your loadout around them.

[trail carbon]

I don't think we have power weapons in hunt. We just have weapons that are too strong or too weak (and some that are just right). The only gun on that list you gave that probably needs a change is the uppercut, or possibly the Clown and Kringe, but that's because it's a shotgun, and I personally think shotguns need a rework

[blazing oriole]

Totally agreed

Shotguns with appropriate range-damage would be soooooo lovely

[trail carbon]

The only time I have fun playing shotguns is with flechettes. Buckshot feels bad, and slugs make me feel evil.

[little carbon]

Realism doesn't matter for a game that isn't trying to cater to realism.
It just needs consistent rules that players can learn. In hunt that is the case, fire and explosive sources trigger an instantaneous explosion, such as incendiary rounds, fuses or a grunts torch.
All non fire sources that have penetration start a fuse.
All non penetrating sources do nothing.

Simple, consistent and balanced.
Not realistic, but again, that doesn't matter

[vital fractal]

Shotguns are fine as is, especially after slug and ammo rework tbh

The only ammo I would consider reworking is pennyshot pellet count and flechette penetration

Slugs are balanced for what they are, shotguns are balanced for what they are-

[trail carbon]

I disagree, I think shotguns should be overhauled and become an actually engaging part of gameplay. Currently shotguns highly encourage camping, and punish rush down fighting style. Slugs are absolutely unbalanced because they are just a straight upgrade over buckshot, despite the fact that special ammo is supposed to be a sidegrade.

I do agree that flechettes should get penetration (because that's literally what they were designed to do) and maybe penny shot should be made not garbage.

But otherwise? Shotguns should have their OHK range drastically reduced, and they should be moderately effective at greater ranges

[hot vigil]

Also, as far I understand even if it needed to get changed due to "realism", black gunpowder doesn't really explode due to trauma/impact, but due to ignition.
So shooting a wooden barrel with gunpowder might cause it to explode, but it requires a lot of factors coming together.

[hot vigil]

Reduced even more?! they hardly outrange melee lmao

[brisk timber]

In my opinion thats the exact opposite route that should be taken - when i look at Hunts track record to me it seems most of the problems that plagued and still plague Hunt are harsh punishing mechanics. As example: Free Hunters that were once 125hp only and were OHK by long ammo rifles.

Same as sniper guns that often are very frustrating to play against and are somewhat held at bay by (be it intentional or not) by weather additions like Inferno or rain.

Ofc its somewhat the dna of hunt to be that punishing but having no chance to fight someone back because you end up in a certain power niche of the enemy or the game becomes stale because nobody wanna enter each others power niches - thats a problem. The same as powercreep when everything becomes too deadly.

PvP needs somewhat of a level playing field and room to breath.

In this regard instead of buffing medium ammo people should think about nerfing long ammo and shotgun.

[vital fractal]

Slugs are a side grade, they require precision aiming (more than buckshot), essentially eliminate hip fire and levering, reduce ammo even more post ammo rework, and require special ammo

They only one tap out to 15m on long barrels, and even then it’s mainly 14.99m or less based on barrel

Even headshots are max around 26m with long slugs it seems

Buckshot still requires good precision to be one tap, and that spreads out from romero requiring the most to it being a joke beyond 5m with shotguns like the handcannons or lemat-

None will one tap outside of 15m (except penny if your rng god loves you that specific moment) reliably

[hot vigil]

I mean, medium ammo should still be buffed to 30m drop off.
But otherwise, yeah, long ammo needs an overhaul and I think Crytek knows it too, feel like it is very purposeful that Krag and LeMatt Uppercut are sub 125 damage long ammo weapons.

[brisk timber]

I agree to an extend
Slugs are no direct upgrad but they are still so strong it feels like its an upgrad.
Slugs should be something that you buy to increase your range massively while dialing back the OHK potential. Thats basically how they work irl aswell and i can see how that would be totaly viable for hunt.

On the other hand if it stays like it is buckshot and slugs alltogether could really need a bit of a dial back in OHK deadliness.

[brisk timber]

Totaly.
Long Ammo should be guns for range and pen. But not crazy damage. Headclickers of some sort.
Spitzer in its general idea is what long ammo should be about as a baseline.

[hot vigil]

Slugs should just not be available for every shotgun, but an option for certain ones.
Like how every other special ammo is balanced in this game

[vital fractal]

1. It is, or isn’t. There is no feels.
2. Slugs irl aren’t applicable to this video game, but slugs irl increase OHK irl- have you seen 00 buckshot at 50 yards vs a slug?
3. They really don’t since spread means it’s really rng and you still have to be precise.

[brisk timber]

Ok what about 10yards?

ofc slugs is deadlier at 50yards DUH

[vital fractal]

Totally fine for short barrels. As it is currently for short slugs.

It sounds like you just want shotguns to be worse rifles with slugs, and jokes up close beyond melee range. That’s not what shotguns are.

[trail carbon]

I think shotguns should be ranged weapons, not melee weapons.

[hot vigil]

For what kind of role?

[vital fractal]

Traditionally short range… as they really are for most games already

You want a realistic shotgun? Go play insurgency sandstorm 👁👁

Then come back here and tell us shotguns have too much range lol

[hot vigil]

Yes, but in this game where the meta/game mechanics revolves around 2 tapping.
Why would you ever choose a slower fire-rate shotgun?

[hot vigil]

I don't say they have lol?

[vital fractal]

That part wasn’t for you

[trail carbon]

Medium ranged combat

[vital fractal]

Apologies

[hot vigil]

Again, why would you pick a romero over windfield?

If they can't OHK

[vital fractal]

Exactly

Shotguns would be worse rifles with a loss of range and damage

[trail carbon]

Why would you pick a Springfield over a vetterli?

It doesn't need to be exactly like a real life shotgun

[brisk timber]

A romero is one of the only shotguns where i could see a big OHK potential still be relevant cause the downtime is high enough

[trail carbon]

I just want it to be more than a glorified melee weapon

[brisk timber]

But something like a Specter, Terminus, C&K
damn those guns just OHK multiple targets in seconds

its stupid

[hot vigil]

Firstly, Vetterli is overtuned.
But reason why you pick between one either of those weapons are price and springfield have access to dum dum.

[brisk timber]

Thats another good reason
If shotguns wouldnt OHK in such distances still
then meele weapons would get an indirect buff aswell making them more viable

[hot vigil]

Yeah, but he is advocating to lessen/remove the OHK of shotguns and increase the range for them, to make the medium range options.

[brisk timber]

Yea im in favor of that. Half the OHK. Double the general range.

whats so bad about it?

[hot vigil]

So, how much damage would a romero deals at 20m?

[trail carbon]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm advocating for. I think buckshot should be what flechettes is now, just probably without the bleeding.

[brisk timber]

A shotgun that can kill in like 6-7m range would still be good for CQC
And having a general range of like 50m would make them more viable outside

Cap the powerpeak but make it more viable for overall use

[trail carbon]

Make ot so you actually have to aim with shotguns

[hot vigil]

How much damage should the romero deal at 50m?

[trail carbon]

Like 70ish?

[hot vigil]

To upper torso I assume?

[trail carbon]

Yeah

[brisk timber]

I dont wanna drop exact numbers - that would need to be fine tuned and tested

[hardy coral]

You have to aim with shotguns already. The special ammo plays the way you want them to currently play with certain downsides.

[hot vigil]

So 6 more damage than the winfield's 64 damage?

[hardy coral]

I really don't believe extending their effectiveness to the range of compact ammo will make the game more interesting. The current shotgun dynamic is fine, there just needs to be more stalemate breaking options and we are getting more of those.

[brisk timber]

Buckshut Hipfire is still way too opressive for how little you have to be skilled
Run around and shoot center mass = win

[trail carbon]

When you ads with a buckshot shotgun, it does literally nothing

[brisk timber]

its stupidly easy to dominate

[trail carbon]

Maybe, I dunno it obviously hasn't been tested. Winfield has fire rate though.

[hardy coral]

Not incredibly unlikely to miss, you see people posting cope clips of them missing.

[late quartz]

It's already kind of hard to strike a good balance amongst all the rifles and rifle ammo types in the game... Turning shotguns into pseudo rifles diminishes what makes them unique and further crowds a busy, messy, largely unbalanced niche

[hardy coral]

By aiming you need to aim centre mass and to win vs another shotgun you either need great reflexes or a strong position.

[late quartz]

Seems like sort of a weird way to make shotguns more fair

[brisk timber]

Even if you miss or just hit half the shot
You still have a second shot and are on paar with most other guns at that point

[hot vigil]

That is fair, just want to understand what exactly you want the weapon to do.

[trail carbon]

Well the other option is to make them not fun to use.

[late quartz]

Is that the "other option"?

[brisk timber]

Nobody said they should lose OHK
but dial it back a bit

[late quartz]

I didn't say anything about one shot kills, I said you want to make them more like rifles

Which I think you've essentially said word for word

More like medium ammo rifles? Something along those lines

[brisk timber]

never said that

[hardy coral]

The terminus flechette levering is already quite similar (and tbh worse) to the winnie levering.

[trail carbon]

I want to make them more like shotguns

[hardy coral]

Like IRL shotguns instead of video game shotguns.

[brisk timber]

exactly

[trail carbon]

Probably not fully like IRL shotguns

[hardy coral]

Video game shotguns work like video game shotguns because video game weapons work better in niches.

[hot vigil]

Except that is not how they work in Hunt.

They have quite the tight spread in Hunt

[brisk timber]

Yea but the damage falloff is quite drastic

[hot vigil]

That is true

[hardy coral]

Insane damage falloff. I feel the current one shot ranges are fine (for buckshot) and that they could use a little more damage at distance so they are better finishers.

[brisk timber]

I would even say make the spread tighter and lessen each pellets dmg

so you have to hit most of your shot

[trail carbon]

Yeah, make the spread tighter, and tighten it even more when you ads

[hardy coral]

Don't have that.

Makes no sense.

[hot vigil]

Want to make shotguns more realistic.
Want to make them magically tighten spread when ADS.
Please pick one

[hardy coral]

There's already advantage to aiming and there would be if you made the spread even tighter.

[brisk timber]

Oh so you wanna straight up buff shotguns even more?

tell me you main shotgun without telling me you main shotgun

[trail carbon]

I don't want them to be IRL shotguns verbatim. I want them to be more fun to use, and promote healthy gameplay styles.

[hot vigil]

tbh think shotguns are fine in their current state, they are mostly just a skill check in positioning.

[late quartz]

Is the issue that they're too strong, or too weak, or just that we don't like how they work at all LOL

[hardy coral]

They aren't currently OP. They are quite easy to counter as there are plenty of close range options in the small and medium slot while there's barely any good ranged options in the small or medium slot.

This does make some sense ofc since the shotguns have a definitive advantage vs all of those close range small and mediums while the disadvantage of the obrez and cent shorty are more situational.

[brisk timber]

Yea tell me about all those fun options that still need to 2tap but you get blasted in 1 by a C&K if you set a step into a compound

[trail carbon]

I currently detest how they function because they promote camping inside, leading to a standoff where nobody does anything and it wastes everyone's time for no reason.

[hardy coral]

Regular Crown sucks ass.

[brisk timber]

blah.
Specter. Terminus. Rival.
Whatever

[trail carbon]

WHAT?!

[hardy coral]

Really just a player issue. As long as they continue to one shot at any range (or are just easier to aim or hold a corner with) people will camp.

[hardy coral]

Yeah it's garbage.

[brisk timber]

We need to breakup stalemates
And you probably only achieve that by decreasing the powerlevel of the guns in their niches.

[hardy coral]

Bad spread along with bad recoil and bad price. It's insane with slugs though.

[trail carbon]

NO?! It's a very fast fire rate OHK weapon

Like, it's not horrendously broken or anything

But it is certainly not garbage

[late quartz]

I agree that promoting camping is an issue, but the thing is shotguns also promote and empower more aggressive playstyles as well. I'd like to see more systems to dislodge campers of all types to make passive play less appealing.

Shotgun camping is strong because this game's tools for dislodging campers are all finite, consumables are strong but often easily evaded and once you're out you're out. I'd like to see more sustainable, renewable anti-camping tools.

[hot vigil]

You can literally just not walk into the compound.
Just play around you know they have shotguns and eventually they need to go out in the open.

[hardy coral]

And yet it's a worse OHK than most of the other shotguns while having an unwieldy ROF that doesn't give a gigantic advantage since it doesn't outshoot levering or fanning.

Slate buckshot is better than crown buckshot.

[brisk timber]

Man thats the thing.
Than people sit outside and the others inside. Thats the point.

its shit gameplay

[trail carbon]

I don't really agree that they promote aggressive playstyles. I am a super aggressive player, and whenever I have buckshot shotgun, I always wish I had something else.

[hardy coral]

And people choose to play that way regardless. I don't believe you can change that via weapons, you need to change the core way bounties work.

[hot vigil]

Stalemates in compounds is one of those weird thing that I don't understand how people cannot play around.
Literally walk away, you can see when the bounty moves and intercept them 99% of the time.

[late quartz]

Idk I think shotguns are generally the best pushing weapons in the game.

[brisk timber]

disagree. If the stakes wouldnt be so high for people to step into each others power territorium people would do it more.

[brisk timber]

Man dude do you dont understand that it isnt about how to play around but to change it?

[hardy coral]

It really isn't that bad, people should make better loadouts. Fanning or a handcannon with slugs can push a lair. You can 3v1 the first man quite easily.

[brisk timber]

I dont want to circle 20min aroudn a compound

[hardy coral]

Pushing out isn't too hard either, if you use DSB you can again get a 3v1/2v1.

[late quartz]

"Eventually" is a key word here, right? This can take 15, 20, 30 minutes to happen. It's generally not how the game is beat enjoyed

[brisk timber]

Statistically youre worse off doin that.

[hardy coral]

You choose to play this way, the weapons aren't so pushed into their niches that you can't. If you've somehow made a whole team setup where you end up inside with only shotguns and a team outside only with rifles you can only blame yourself.

[hardy coral]

Making a well rounded loadout or deciding to play the game?

[late quartz]

Both

[hardy coral]

If you wanted to "win" every game you'd farm AI and pick up money bags.

[hot vigil]

But why change it when the issue ain't an issue?
"Shotguns needs change bc they cause stalemates"
Just play in the way that makes them no cause a stalemate.
"Naw, I refuse to move away for 5 min and would rather camp for 15!"

[hardy coral]

If people don't want to push with bounty or push bounty then that's their choice to play the game in a boring way.

Changing the weapons won't fix that, changing the lairs and how bounty works may, as it has in the past.

[hot vigil]

In my experience of 5* lobbies, as soon you move out of darksight range, they'll start moving.
Rarely see people just sitting inside the lair for 30 min.

[hardy coral]

DSB was a big help and iterations on terrible compounds has helped too.

Certain stinkers like Salters Pork remain as a great example of how not to build a compound and how far we've come.

[brisk timber]

I know all the cool tips mate
use them all day long to tell others how to play around effectively
im not discussion whats effective im discussion if its fun and if it could use change to be more fun
And i think it does

[late quartz]

Getting out of DS range assumes that no other teams are there, and that extracts are set up in a way that doesn't give the bounty team a massive advantage and head start. It's an option but it's often a bad option.
People camp because they only have bad options or passive play to choose from

[hot vigil]

I think it is fun, dunno,
It is like a game of cat and mouse and combat initiative.

[trail carbon]

If they can't just instagib you as soon as you enter, they'd be less likely to sit in there forever.

[brisk timber]

Nah im not a fan playing cat and mouse sitting somewhere 150m from a compunds lookig at a map for some thunders to move

I dont know how this is fun

[hot vigil]

Well, there will always be the matter of other teams to throw a wrench into your plans, that is just the game.
And if you know how to position, you don't put yourself in a way that just give the bounty a free escape, you take into account the escape routes and the extraction positioning and position accordingly to ambush/intercept when they go for it.
That said, I will acknowledge there are cases when the extract is just placed in a way where that ain't possible and you have to play close to the compound, but feel that is more a extraction/boss lair placement issue.

[hardy coral]

Still, the onus is on the bounty team to act because they have the boost and therefore know where the enemy outside is and they have the lair to fight from. If they aren't taking any peeks or even coming out the other side then they have no right to complain about those "camping" outside.

[trail carbon]

Methodical gameplay != slow glameplay

[unborn dagger]

I mean Hunt is a slow tactical shooter, unless you want something like COD you're not really gonna get that here.

[trail carbon]

It's a methodical tactical shooter

There's a difference

I despise COD, so no thanks, don't want that

[unborn dagger]

Fair

[brisk timber]

this is the most overused statement
its getting really tiresome
no need to be a fatalist and argue the game becomes CoD in an instand all the time

[late quartz]

Sure. I mean I think you're being reasonable, my point is moreso that "just to xyz" sounds nice but in reality there are often good reasons not to just bait people out by walking away from boss lair.

In an ideal situation it's a valid play, in many real matches it will often be a purely disadvantageous decision you make because you'd rather risk losing than sitting around for a half hour, the same reason you'd push into a shotgun concertina nest

[brisk timber]

Reducing the OHK potential of shottys and nerf the dmg of long ammo
I would argue the game would somewhat become more slower and less punishing
so i dont see the CoD comparison at all here

[hardy coral]

"of long ammo", you mean the bolties.

Is Sparks going down to 124?

[hot vigil]

Not sure what I can say about this, sounds like you want to play a different game than what Hunt is.

[brisk timber]

yea bolties probably would be the better description

Sparks is fine

[trail carbon]

And the uppercut

[hardy coral]

Uppercut damage is fine, it fires too fast.

It cycles as fast as a pax does, why?

[trail carbon]

It's literally a better vetterli in its current state

[brisk timber]

i think Hunt can improve - for others its maybe a de-volve

[hardy coral]

Because of the firerate mostly.

[trail carbon]

Hunt isn't about sitting in a bush or a building for more than a few minutes or so

[hardy coral]

It should go from 1.3 second cycle to like 1.6 or even 1.7.

[trail carbon]

It has the same stats as a vetterli

Except that it's a one slot and long ammo

[hardy coral]

Vet is only decent because of the firerate with the decent two tap, which the cent already does quite a bit better. Vetterli is made even further trash by uppercut yes, but it's not an issue of damage.

[hot vigil]

Reason why I say "just walk away" is because my success rate with it is fairly high, with very little downtime.
Compound stalemates, to me, ain't when there is 1 team inside and 2-3 teams outside. But when we are down to the two last teams.

[hardy coral]

Uppercut outdoes the lighter pistols because it cycles as fast if not faster than them.

[trail carbon]

Uppercut also does ridiculous levels of damage for a pistol

[hot vigil]

Which is why moving away and playing around the map is my advice.
That is not "just sitting down".

[hot vigil]

You want to improve something that is literally a non-issue tho.

[hardy coral]

Which is the point, it's the uppercut.

It UPPER cuts. The firerate it has is the odd part.

[trail carbon]

So make it a two slot then

[late quartz]

Yeah sometimes. I think it's a legitimate option that is somewhat underused but not a universal solution by any means.
The reality is this gameplay dynamic is fun for essentially nobody and the game would almost invariably be better without it.

Finding a universal solution is easy, finding a universal solution with as few negative drawbacks bundles along with it is quite a lot harder

[hardy coral]

Why?

[trail carbon]

Or something, changing its firerate isn't going to stop it from being crazy

[hardy coral]

Uppermat would just be better.

[hardy coral]

It will, the issue is the firerate.

[trail carbon]

Uppermat does less damage already

[hardy coral]

120, which matters for the one tap but not much else.

[trail carbon]

That's the whole point I'm making for the uppercut though

[hardy coral]

I'm saying the 126 on the uppercut makes the weapon but it is OP due to the high firerate.

[unborn dagger]

I do agree that long ammo pistols shouldn't be firing as fast they are rn

[hardy coral]

Uppermat firerate is fine since the gun would be crap without it.

[unborn dagger]

Especially the lemat

[trail carbon]

Why would you ever take a sparks pistol over the uppercut?

[hardy coral]

The 149 damage adds quite a bit of extra 2 tap range and it gets different special ammo.

Also 3x cheaper.

And also... you don't take them with the same loadouts.

Sparks P should still reload a bit quicker though.

[unborn dagger]

Yeah but you have more than 8 shots and shotgun. I think having a slower fire rate for that would be fine.

Even if the shotgun has terrible spread

[trail carbon]

So let me get this straight. You're totally fine with making the long ammo bolties do sub 125 damage?

[hardy coral]

The shotgun is only good with slugs and the 9 shots don't matter much. The gun without the shotgun even is just a worse centennial shorty.

[trail carbon]

But not the uppercut?

[hardy coral]

Not even particularly. I feel that the bolties are hard to balance but a reverse sweetspot mechanic from 0-25/30 metres would do better to balance them vs shotguns.

Right now a shotgun player that loses a bar vs long ammo bolties is basically shit out of luck.

If they could still force a close range engagement that was in their favour vs them it'd make fights generally more dynamic as once downed shotgun players can still push and bolty players have to stay mentally active for longer in the engagement.

Also gives the Martini and Sparks some more power relatively and therefore better off-meta picks.

[hot vigil]

For me I think it is an interesting dynamic, but I also see the game as battle of initiatives.
You have a window to breach during banishment, as the noise mask you, you can succeed or fail.
If you fail (but don't die), the initiative is onto the other bounty team, they should use the Dark Sight boost and push out to an isolated target.
If they fail (or fail to move), the stalemate happens. So moving away reset the initiative to the outside team, they have full knowledge of the bounty team's movement and can choose the battleground.
The bounty team still have the DSB, but it is a precious resource and require good feel and knowledge to use when you are outside the compound to counter the ambush.
Sure the bounty team is playing at a slight disadvantage at that point, but not to the point where they are discourage to move out compared to DSB and see 3 teams right outside.
So sure, you can just hardwall outside/inside the compound for 40min, but there is a lot more exciting gameplay if you know how to play around it.

[hardy coral]

The battle of initiatives is good but sadly borked by certain traits like bulwark, lightfoot and salveskin and consumables like the antidote shot and flash bomb.

The game in its own proper vision is incomplete and so the devs sadly perpetuate this.

The fire ammo buff was excellent, the salveskin buff killed it.

[hot vigil]

Besides the flashbomb being bs, I don't see what point you are trying to make.

[late quartz]

The thing is that these alternative exciting ways to play aren't appealing enough to get people to engage with them given the choice.

The reality of game design is players will optimize the fun out of your game, and in this case the optimal way to play around bounty fucking blows lul

[hardy coral]

Bulwark makes all explosives other than frag inconsistent and therefore way too situationally weak/disappointing while bloodless, salveskin and antidote do the same for the respective special ammo. Lightfoot breaks the consistency of sound and makes it so you need to watch things you otherwise shouldn't need to.

Flashes break the flow of fights by being uncounterable.

[late quartz]

The risk of camping needs to be raised to incentivized the players with the game's objective to engage with other players. Playing the game should be more appealing than not playing the game

[trail carbon]

Yeah, everything you mentioned there I despise about hunt.

Especially bulwark affecting bomblance harpoon

[brisk timber]

Well thats your point of view tho
I would like to have an easier time stepping into other guns power niche.
As rifler pushing compounds and as a shotgunner playing in the open.
If you think having hard niches to play around is better thats a valid opinion.
Saying its a no-issue is a bit of denying my view 😄

[hot vigil]

Think it is more that people are scared or too hardheaded to try things like these.
We are risk adverse creatures after all.
And again, dunno man, if you give the bounty space it moves and when I'm inside as the bounty team, the initiative is on me so no issue.

[hardy coral]

Really a terrible thing and the fact it's a loading screen tip hurts my hopes for the future balancing.

Also kek at the tip that says you can't look away from flashes.

[unborn dagger]

Yeah them adding those new tips pretty much shows that they have no intention on changing it

[hardy coral]

Is there a tip that says you can survive a dusters headhit with hornskin?

Another genius balancing move.

[hot vigil]

Well, weapons are designed to have niches and you should understand that when choosing one weapon over another.
Being pouty faced and complaining you cannot push a lair as good with a sparks sniper over a shotgun is quite silly.
I am not denying your view, just saying that lenses you view it thru is misplaced.
Like saying "this is bad bc it taste sour", but the point of the thing is to be sour.

[unborn dagger]

Never seen that so most likely no

[hardy coral]

Dusters are solidly below heavy knife at this point.

Not that anything is worth it over knuckie but eh.

[unborn dagger]

Honestly it's super weird how crytek balances blunt damage in this game

[late quartz]

You're essentially saying people should take one for the team and give up a huge positional advantage. That's just not an appealing thing to do, so of course people would rather play the waiting game and hope the other team gets bored and makes a bad play first

I agree this is a valid play, but it's usually not the optimal play. It's a compromise

It's not a decision that makes the game more interesting for most players

[hardy coral]

Hornskin should just be a 25% reduction to AI damage.

[brisk timber]

I think something like those ADS traits like iron repeater and the like is a good example enhancing a gun without creating a niche.
Shotguns and Rifles could still have niches and strength without beeing opressive in those.
You can balance guns to give them slight advantages instead of major ones.

[hot vigil]

No I am not? I am saying that people should play into their advantage.
Being on the outside and moving away is an advantage as you choose to set up the ambush point.
And yes, bounty team should be punished at that point, bc they had the advantage of DSB before that.

[brisk timber]

If you want an uneven playingfield thats fine.
I think it could be more even.
My opinion isnt invalid because of that tho.

[late quartz]

Leaving the boss lair isn't an advantage by default. Having a team pinned in boss lair allows you much more control and much better positions than hoping to set up an ambush out in the open

[hot vigil]

I'd rather have more expressive and iconic roles, than everything becoming the same with slight variations.

[late quartz]

Most of the time the optimal play is to sit and wait for the bounty team to come out and get shot

Anything else is a mistake in the name of being less bored

[brisk timber]

see thats a subjective take just as mine
neither is more valid

[unborn dagger]

Agreed, but blunt weapons need a big buff

[hot vigil]

You can literally see where they are positioned.
You push the isolated target and if they ain't isolated, then you still have back exist to get out from.
As soon you let the team move outside of darksight range you lose that advantage.

[hardy coral]

Dusters need to strike forward with a bit more range and it'd be fine with the hornskin change too.

[hot vigil]

Sure

[hardy coral]

The current hitbox for dusters is AWFUL.

[late quartz]

If a team leaves dark sight range it means you have a massive amount of freedom to move without being pressured. It's not a disadvantage to have another team stop pinning you down to one location lol

This goes against your main point, that being leaving dark sight range encouraged bounty to move

It's better to walk out of boss lair with nobody around than with a team outside

[unborn dagger]

That would be a good buff for it for sure

[late quartz]

If you're pinning boss lair team, you have an advantage which you give up by leaving

[hot vigil]

Well, they need to extract to get the bounty.

[late quartz]

Sure but everybody needs to extract

Nobody needs to extract more than anybody else

[hardy coral]

Knuckle knife should also cost 20 stamina for the heavy and 10 for the light. Heavy Knife should have a 12 cost light.

[late quartz]

The problem is that the extract timer can make everybody wait around for 30 minutes

And both teams are best off hoping the other team gets bored and does something first

The game encourages waiting and holding everybody else hostage, on both ends

[hot vigil]

Yes, but ain't reflective in actual play in my experience.
Sure I could move away, give space and the bounty could just sit.
But it have happen so far.

[late quartz]

No, they probably will move if you move first

But you've given up a huge advantage

Most players don't wanna give up their advantage if they're camping outside boss lair

It's like a dumb thing to do if you want to optimize your chance of winning

[hot vigil]

What advantage? You've lost all momentum

They know you are there

you move away, they have zero info on you.

[late quartz]

And you have zero pressure on them

Pinning players into a single building is an advantage

[hot vigil]

Yes, they will move, because they don't win if they do not move.

[late quartz]

Equally true for both teams

Both teams want the other team to move first

Whichever does gives up an advantage

[hot vigil]

Sitting outside doesn't give an advantage if it doesn't give you kills does it?

its a draw

You need to reset the game-state

[late quartz]

If the team in the boss lair moves out of their building they walk into flexible, dynamic lines of sight. They have to take a risk to leave.

You know this, you agree with this, moving around in Hunt showdown is a risk, and if people know you're in one single building they can cover exists or funnel you into weak positions if they choose to go out the back way

Having lines of sight and applying pressure on a boss lair creates an advantage

Moving out of cover into lines of sight is bad, generally

[hot vigil]

Yes, but you cannot (except for some bad rare exception) cover all angles of a compound.
You literally just DSB, choose the exit that is not covered and exit.

[late quartz]

Sure, but generally if you go out the back way you're still at a weaker position than if you had simply sat still

Either way, whoever moves is in a worse position than if they hadn't

[hot vigil]

Not really, you have dark sight boost and shotguns

Close the gap

[late quartz]

Why do people sit is boss lairs then ._.

[hot vigil]

Bc they lack game knowledge or are scared.

it is like how certain SC2 strategies are meant to destroy low skilled players

But as you get more skilled you know how to counter them

[late quartz]

Okay. So much of the player base is just bad and having a massive skill issue that it's detracting from the game and I'd like to see the baseline balance of these encounters shift to enable bad scared players to make more choices than "do I sit here and wait or do i walk out and die"

[brisk timber]

Nah. I wouldnt say its a draw because the team holding outside if the game is decided by clock has an upperhand at extraction.

[late quartz]

This seems to be an issue even in high MMR lobbies so Im not sure it's going to be fixed by people just getting good

[brisk timber]

So yea camping a compound is still a strong position.

Not saying your strategy isnt valid.

But hes right that you giving up a strong position.

[late quartz]

It's a valid strat but it's usually suboptimal

[hot vigil]

What is high MMR to you?

[late quartz]

I have between 2900~2950 MMR consistently

So that's my frame of reference

Better than the vast majority of the bell curve lol

[hot vigil]

Fair enough, I am not sure of my exact numbers, but I am 5*.

[hot vigil]

Not really suboptimal if it breaks stalemates and I get bounties from it.

In my own experience

[late quartz]

I'd say maybe 3~5% of matches go this way, depends a lot on the compound as some are worst than others

[hot vigil]

Ofc not 100% success rate, but camping aint that iether soo

[late quartz]

Breaking stalemate is appealing but it's not an advantage. It's cool cause the game actually happens but it means your chances of winning are often lower from a game theory standpoint

[brisk timber]

It is.
You only do it because of boredome.
If time or boredom wouldnt be an issue the wisest thing would be to sit it out.
Giving the bounty team the room to move is a way to keep the whole game moving - but for the sake of sanity not because its a good tactical choice.

[hot vigil]

That is for sure, compound like Stillwater Bend is an issue bc the bounty team have little ways to move out.

[brisk timber]

I do this very often and it bears the risk of the bounty team slipping away.

[hot vigil]

Well, not really, bc if you sit inside the boss lair you lose.

[brisk timber]

we talking from the outside perspective dont we?

[hot vigil]

Ah, well, I don't have any gripes with that, bc as I said, a good bounty teams should know how to get outside their compound with little risk.
(with some bad compounds as an exception).

[late quartz]

Both teams have to leave to extract eventually. Nobody is more incentivized to extract. Both teams have just as much to lose from staying still forever until the timer runs out, the outside team just has the option to do it for free with no risk, the bounty team has to fight their way out usually at a disadvantage

[hot vigil]

Well, the outside team have the advantage being able to shoot the enemy bounty team as the approach the extract.

[trail carbon]

Often at quite the disadvantage as there are often multiple teams outside the lair

[hot vigil]

Multiple teams outside ain't a stale-mate in my book.

They will eventually find and fight

[late quartz]

Outside team doesn't wanna do it because of opportunity cost and sunk cost, they don't wanna leave having spent all this time with nothing to show for it

Inside team doesn't wanna leave because they have to fight their way out, it's not free

[hot vigil]

And you can use that to breach out

[trail carbon]

Why, you think they'll fight each other? They don't always know the other exists as they are both usually waiting for you to come out

[hot vigil]

Nothing is free in a PvP game.
Everything is a risk.

[late quartz]

Sure. It's a risk vs reward analysis that consistently does not weigh out for players

The psychology of the situation clearly leads people to optimize the fun out of the game

The incentive structure is not healthy

[balmy spindle]

can you toggle runing?

[hot vigil]

I've played enough games to know that that is not a "if" but "when".

[trail carbon]

With a controller, yes. With M&K, no.

[brisk timber]

#game-questions

[balmy spindle]

im tired of pressing shift so i can run, it would be esier to toggle

[trail carbon]

In my experience, it's still a massive gamble to rush out during their fight, because you still just get gibbed quite often

[brisk timber]

#feedback

[hot vigil]

Will acknowledge that, but dunno, feel like it ain't as much of an issue as people make it out to be if they just want to engage and improve their gameplan.
It might be me being an hardass, but it is such an non-issue bc it is the players themselves that creates this issue and not the game.

[hot vigil]

Well, then don't? Then slip out the back?

[late quartz]

I think it's probably less of a catastrophe than it may come across given how much people complain about it

But when it does happen it's really really unpleasant

Because it usually wastes 15-30 mins

[brisk timber]

You know what could really help breaking those stalemates and incentivies players to step into each other territories?
Make the guns in their designated niches less opressive to play against.

[late quartz]

Nobody wants their time disrespected

[brisk timber]

😄

[late quartz]

Or... Give players better tools to counter playstyles, deepening the game and keeping weapons unique lol

[hot vigil]

For sure, those games where they go in with the battleplan of concertina fort themselves up that's an issue.
Bc they do it to abuse, but people just not having the skill/being stubborn to push/reposition and whatnot should be taken with a grain of salt.

[brisk timber]

oh you mean ..like the beetle?
lol

[trail carbon]

I mean, I think changing a few mechanics could fix the camping problem in hunt. I understand that there will always be campers because of human nature. However, for there to be camping on this level, it's absolutely a symptom of game design. What the exact design aspect causing this is up for debate, but it definitely is not just the players' faults.

[late quartz]

The beetles are a good addition, and the right approach, but not a solution to the problem obviously

[hot vigil]

Sure we can change some mechanics, but it ain't the fault of the weapons that people camp.
If shotguns ain't the devil for not pushing, then it is levering winnie or fanning.

Or flashes or frags or traps

[late quartz]

I definitely don't blame shotguns or long ammo or scopes for camping

[brisk timber]

The problem about that stuff is that its oftenn hard limited
there are only so much slots and you cant use those tools as a reliable method

[trail carbon]

To be fair, I hate fanning and levering as well, but they're not as prevalent because they require a trait

[late quartz]

Oh 100% I agree. I think there should be magic spells on cooldown that act like weaker consumables.

Unironically that is my ideal solution

[trail carbon]

I think the beetle would be way better if if was a tool.

[trail carbon]

That's really interesting actually

[hot vigil]

Issue with beetle for me is that is doesn't really give info you don't have already.
"Lemme check if there are people inside, eyup there sure is"

[late quartz]

I think unlimited, weaker consumables on cooldown would be an incredibly addition to hunt... But the realism gang would shit their pants despite y'know... All of hunt being magic lul

[brisk timber]

im not a big fan of those "special abilitys" - next we have the hunter of the month thing that has OP specials D: but yea maybe...i guess

[trail carbon]

Hunters literally use magic so often in the lore, and in game too. I like the spells idea a lot

[late quartz]

I think players aren't used to "droning eachother in". Similar tools in other games like R6 Siege are used more effectively because players are used to them. You can't act on your own beetle, but you can push with a teammates beetle to act on fresh info

[hot vigil]

Yeah I'll pass on that, I don't want the ability creep of R6 where I have to memorize 100 different interaction of wallhacks :v

[trail carbon]

Give me a small dynamite that has like a 30 second cool down or something. Make it only do like 70 damage, don't care, it'd get rid of concertina trap garbage

[brisk timber]

The big problem about the beetle tho is that it takes a player character out of game and make it an easy target.
Beetle is hardly fun to use

[late quartz]

I don't want 100 different abilities, no more than consumables are "100 different abilities"

[hot vigil]

Think the difference is that drones in R6 are (more) silent that a beetle.

[late quartz]

Having an smaller shorter firebomb or flash bomb on cool down isn't that hard to remember

[trail carbon]

What if consumables were just completely overhauled to be this?

[brisk timber]

Something like chokebombs replenish i could be down with

[late quartz]

Sure, but beetles can fly. They're not 1:1 identical but players don't tend to push with their teammates beetles. This is a playstyles thing that I tend to see success in. Not saying beetles are perfect but I think they're stronger than the community has found them to be so far

[hot vigil]

Oof, those words gonna give me nightmares, unlimited flashbombs

[brisk timber]

haha same xD

[late quartz]

Yeah they'd need to be MUCH weaker obviously

[trail carbon]

BURN EVERYONE

[late quartz]

Like way way way weaker

But still, it means you can actually push without using a finite resource

[queen jungle]

@leaden siren A kill cam would probably be as inaccurate as the spectate feature, especially if past kill cams like in Crysis 3 are anything to go by.

[hot vigil]

Beetle is simply too loud, wish you could mount it on a wall or something.

[hot vigil]

I mean at that point it is just the flashlight

[late quartz]

It has to be loud because it has full vertical freedom. They'd be so so so hard to shoot if you couldn't pinpoint them. Ideally, imo, they'd be FASTER so you could keep up with teammates better

But the speed thing is an issue when they explode lol

I'd like a beetle variant that has no explosion but is more maneuverable

[trail carbon]

Yeah

[late quartz]

Perhaps also a trait that lets you serpent your beetle back to you if it's on the floor, to make them more reusable

[brisk timber]

i feel like the choke beetle flies a bit faster

or is it copium?

[trail carbon]

I think it's copium

[steel comet]

Let's race them

[little carbon]

I think this is a bit of a flawed approach. Punishing mistakes is something that is kind of part of Hunts identity.
And at its core its not an issue. Punishing mistakes doesnt create Stalemates.
Stalemates usually result of either of two big reasons:

1. A team with inadequate loadout creation skills has created a team loadout that cannot compete in most ranges (Pure shotguns, pure sniper), and/or arent confident enough in their abilities to execute plays.
2. You have a team that refuses to do any suboptimal play. And as it stands in Hunt the optimal play is to always play passive (Doesnt mean you cant win by playing active, but if you want to maximise your winrate [non-loss rate] you would find yourself in a passive playstyle)

The first kind you cant ever stop. These people will always camp unless the game becomes so forgiving that there is no downside at all to making mistakes.
The second kind however is quite easy to stop. Make sitting a suboptimal playstyle. Then those people will gravitate to whatever makes them win the most, or if they dont, they wont be an issue anymore.
And that is pretty much only achieved by map design. That can be achieved as i have outlined before by forcing both parties into the compound, out of the wilderness and out of the lair.

Generally speaking compounds are the ideal fighting distance, as they are generally well above shotgun distance, allow shotguns to reasonably attempt to push rifles, but give rifle users enough time to headshot / double peek a pushing shotgun.

[brisk timber]

Thats hands down the most fun idea ever!
Imagine we could put up little checkpoints on the shooting range and have beetle races

[steel comet]

I'm imagining mario kart music

[brisk timber]

yaho!

[little carbon]

Thats fair. Good luck simulating real life physics

[hot vigil]

No that was my point, that even if we adhered to realism it would just mean that gunpowder barrels wouldn't explode when getting shot.

[blazing oriole]

Stalker beetles that only crawl on surfaces but are faster 👀

[analog willow]

I think that warrants it’s own #game-ideas post😋

[blazing oriole]

https://tenor.com/view/hee-hee-beetle-stag-beetle-large-beetle-beetle-love-gif-21759465

[charred yoke]

WHY IS THERE AN ISSUE WITH EVENTS POINTS? I more times than not dont get event points for collecting clues, why is this ?

[analog willow]

Unless I’m mistaken, not all clues give event points (and wild target ones never give any at all)

[queen jungle]

Yes, there are event clues and non-event clues.

[prisma vector]

ENOUGH with the rain, its EVERY SINGLE GAME

[brave ruin]

I do not think it's a balance, because in first case it give a chance to survive, but in second it's instant death without any chance. This is looks like they copied settings from dynamite and pasted it for all weapons, you can throw. Even lamps I know it because after hit from a gun this barrel starting to burn from inside and you can even see it, but explosion only after some time or second hit

[brave ruin]

Yeah, what's why I finished all event, even bonus one, have all drops from twitch, and now can play in other fantasy game, which is better in fantasy genre (BG3).

[turbid hound]

aww shit, here we go again

[hot vigil]

Well, back in the days we didn't have a spam fiesta of weapons, so there were plenty of time to react between the first and second shot.
Barrels ain't a big science in this game.
Two shots or anything that have flames to it, throwables to incendiary ammo.

[hot vigil]

I know

[brave ruin]

Yes, but I think need to fix it, so hunters can have a chance to survive. Right now it's works as instant dynamite even if you have a lamp. I pointing on it, because other mechanics have a chance to survive, but not this one. Only dynamite must have instant effect.

[brave ruin]

Not I started it. He wrote after discussion ended. I replied. This is all.

[hot vigil]

I mean, you just need minimum spatial awareness.
Don't stand next to barrels, simple as.
And IF you stand next to a barrel and hear a fuse, you book it.

It is not something that needs "fixing".

[brave ruin]

Then let's guns have the same effect. Because what's the point?

[hot vigil]

That it is eaiser and more instantaneous to shoot a barrel at 50m than running up within throwing distance and throw something onto it?

[turbid hound]

I think i can explain this from logical perspective:
For barrel to explode, it needs open fire. Normal bullet does not contain fire, so for explosion it need to initiate fire inside of a barrel, hence first shot ignition.
And if you shoot/throw fire at barrel it explodes instantly.
You can think of a barrel as a container with very thin walls, that is why simple fire proximity is enough

[tiny pivot]

I've checked this channel off and on for like 2 days now and if it goes back to the fucking barrel conversation I'm gonna go insane

[brave ruin]

Do not stand next to barrel, remember?

[tiny pivot]

It's common gameplay for barrels to fuse or blow up if shot, and if you're really that concerned about the realism you should be more focused on the fact that poison barrels can be broken by decoys and all barrels can be broken by blank fire decoys (if i recall correctly)

[brave ruin]

It is have instant fire. You even can see it.

[turbid hound]

Do you know how firearm cartridge works? Only tracer and special fire ammo contain fire in it's bullet. IRL you can shoot powderkeg with FMJ and nothing will happen(unless some freak accident cause some sparks and it will be enough to start a fire)

[brave ruin]

If I want realism, then this barrels will be explode only after several shots or not explode at all.

[hot vigil]

That is a good rule of thumb, but we do happen around them still sometimes.
I assure you if people could easily snipe barrels and instant explode them at +100m it would become frustrating very quickly.
Yes you can do that with fire bullets, but that sacrifices the penetration, so requires a direct line of sight and is more niche.

[brave ruin]

I know. But how it works with this game?

[tiny pivot]

to be fair, i feel like you're actually trolling if you die to a barrel outside of a stretch situation like the barrel getting fanned/levered while you walk by, or alert tripmines

they are very obvious 💀

[turbid hound]

if everything can explode barrels, then it will be too easy to catch hunters running next to them

[hot vigil]

Tell that to my friend

[brave ruin]

So lucky shot for sniper

[hot vigil]

Well, yeah, but that is hunt for ya', if you wanna slam fire bullets on a sparks sniper and lose long ammo pen, be my guest

[tiny pivot]

that's me in your game sorry my bad

both ends really

though i feel like alert tripmine barrels is extremely uncommon in lower stars, that or people just suck at placing them

[brave ruin]

This is how other mechanics works. You can just run wothout consequences.

[tiny pivot]

idk, i enjoy alert tripmines in my early prestiges, very fast unlock, and you can either stack 4 to chunk a person down in a doorway or stack them on barrels in boss compound, or even simply use them for information

i love hunt for that, many things are useful for multiple things

[brave ruin]

I just want to see some logic in the game. This is all.

[hot vigil]

I only use them the very rare occasion when I solo.
Trios gets horny for murder when they spot a solo and the tunnel vision gets real.

[tiny pivot]

as someone who only plays solo, you get it xD

[turbid hound]

I dont see why this is illogical

[tiny pivot]

i could play like a baby and just trip EVERYTHING and sit in a bush with a silencer, but i play aggressive because i see no point in playing if im not gonna fight

[hot vigil]

There is already a logic:

• Barrels pop with two shots.
• Barrel hit with one shot will detonate after brief time.
• Any open fire will instantly detonate a barrel.

[brave ruin]

I do not see logic in burning barrels which explode after a time, while lamp can explode them as dynamite.

[hot vigil]

I usually just wait a team to pick up a bounty, see where they gonna extract and set up shop (place traps) in the nearest compound to the extract.
Then I just wait in the mid point between the extraction and the compound and see if I can get the drop on them/harrass them, if I fail to get a opening kill or two, I fall back to the compound and they always follow.

[brave ruin]

There is a mistake. 1 and 2 already in open fire and you even can see it.

[hot vigil]

It is called an audio-visual indicator to convey to people that something is happening.

[tiny pivot]

the game already has enough logic to be annoying to be honest... all im gonna say is that barrels are already barely used and nerfing them to work "as logical" would leave them absolutely useless

[brave ruin]

It's not audio. You actually can see it.

[turbid hound]

but different amount and volume, that is crucial to start an explosive reaction

[hot vigil]

There is also a hissss

[tiny pivot]

i'm always slow, i usually force the extraction fight
not like sitting mosin camping, but tossing explosives and stuff lol
and if im early, i will usually rush down the compound, and then stealth a bit closer to it. trap wise i usually forget on the compound assault but i try to use them to cover mytback

[brave ruin]

Yes, and this is fire. And also you can see open fire.

And only after it can explode

[hot vigil]

So?

I really fail to see the issue with that

[brave ruin]

Alright, then I'll be play in BG3, because I am tired of this talk. Have a fun.

[tiny pivot]

😭

[flat sandal]

You talking about explosive barrels again?

[unborn dagger]

No, more rain :^)

[hot vigil]

@flat sandal interesting suggestion about looting hunter, not sure where I stand on it tho

[flat sandal]

Yeah me neither, just think it's weird the way it is^^

[hot vigil]

Bc at this point we have SO many venues of getting hunt bucks, so dunno if we need that much more of constant passive income.

[flat sandal]

It's supposed to stay the same

[hot vigil]

I think it more as a "perfect score" bonus, if you ace a team without using any consumables you gain something extra.

[flat sandal]

That's a dodgy decision though imo

[hot vigil]

I mean, sometimes fights just concludes faster than you can use anything

[flat sandal]

And so is running around for a loot Box before looting hunters

[hot vigil]

I am a big pack mule gamer, it does wonders :v

[flat sandal]

Yeah that's fair but it incentivises you

[hot vigil]

I agree

[flat sandal]

Not to use them that is

[hot vigil]

but then again, also depends of what people brings for ther consumables to begin with

Some brings in a lot of healing

Which just doesn't get used

[flat sandal]

Gtg now, thank you for the feedback 😄

[hot vigil]

Have a good one!

[flat sandal]

True as well, it's one of them things though that are in the back of players minds and shouldn't imo. Yeah you too^^

[rough pumice]

How much sence does it make that after I kill 1 of a duo, I "SOLO" gets downed by his teammate, he has enough time to run over and res his teammate before my timer reaches 2 seconds.. come on.. buff closerange self res.

[turbid hound]

solo res is strong as it is

[knotty ore]

Solo rez straight OP in 2s lol

Its literally easier to play solo in 2s than to play with a parter in 2s.

[celest spindle]

#game-ideas message

He clearly doesnt know the art of the bees
-me, the bee master

[mystic ridge]

@mild tartan your feedback to me just reads like "revert the ammo changes"

[royal horizon]

Yes because balancing all guns around the same ammo resupply is dumb.

Why does the Martini resupply the same number of bullets as the Sparks when one is clearly superior ?

[mystic ridge]

Guns with lesser dmg should be given more ammo. That's how it is currently. Compact ammo gives you 8 back, long ammo gets 2. They changed getting double ammo back if you had the 2 weapons of the same type because people abused it (Sparks Avto for example)

[mild tartan]

@mystic ridge There’s still changes I think were good like not giving players extra ammo for equipping dual pistols instead of just one.

[hardy coral]

Sparks is not superior to martini lul

[mystic ridge]

I don't understand what you mean, both are strong long ammo guns that hit very hard, so they should have limited ammo and reward you for hitting your shot.

[hardy coral]

The only weapons where the pick ups are odd are the dual ammo type single shots but you can get around that by using a special ammo type and each one has a good one.

I think with those you should pick up 3 shots if you don't have a special ammo type equipped.

[mystic ridge]

Ay maybe they were implying that the martini was better (which it is)

[mystic ridge]

You mean guns like the henri or Romero where you can bring 2 special ammo's?

[hardy coral]

Yeah.

Martini and sparks have incendiary as an okay second option, sparks poison is strong too but they can just randomly fail you so aren't in any way reliable.

Martini ironside doesn't deserve better pickup. They basically just need 50% better pickup if not equipping another type. You could even argue the same for berthier since it is the weakest bolty.

[royal horizon]

"Both hit very hard" isn't an argument. A shot from a Martini isn't worth the same as a shot from a Sparks. Same with the Mosin vs Krag.

You need more shots to kill with a Krag than a mosin, due to its lower damage, thus making Krag ammo more valuable than Mosin ammo. The Krag already suffered from bad ammo reserves before the changes, often needing a Sparks pistol to resupply effectively, but now it got even more fucked over now that you can't resupply it reliably

[mystic ridge]

So sparks does 4% more dmg than a henri. Does it need 4% more bullets

[royal horizon]

Crytek shot themselves in the foot again by removing another balancing factor. What do you not understand here ?

[mystic ridge]

That all long ammo hits very hard, so it should be scarcer

[royal horizon]

It's already scarce

I'm not saying a Krag should resupply like a Vetterli

[hardy coral]

All those guns kill in two hits if you're within the proper range (which is pretty far) and aim well.

The pickup is fine, especially considering reserve ammo and best use cases.

You aren't firing as many shots with a sparks as compared to mosin.

[royal horizon]

You keep refering to the hypothetical argument I made over the Martini vs Sparks.
Now consider this : A Krag doesn't hold the same ammo value than a mosin because firing faster =/= doing more damage. A krag can't one tap when missing 25hp, and its bullets are inherently not worth the same as that of a rifle like the Mosin or Lebel

[hardy coral]

It also fires the fastest out of all the bolties by a decent distance. The only real change it needs is just another bullet and a brighter front post.

It's not weak cus of ammo pickup changes, it's not even weak at all. If ammo is still your concern with the weapon that should be used to finish a fight fast (and therefore conserve ammo and pick up loads after) then you can still bring sparks P for another 14 shots.

[royal horizon]

Why am I debating game design with guys that both have "Remove flash bombs" plastered over your names ? "Remove game item duuuh" instead of thinking of ways to balance it isn't the way to go my guy

[hardy coral]

Cus it's incendiary and gets people talking.

"rework flash bomb" could mean literally anything.

And I debate game balance here in good detail if you paid any attention.

[rough pumice]

How much sence does it make that after I kill 1 of a duo, I "SOLO" gets downed by his teammate, he has enough time to run over and res his teammate before my timer reaches 2 seconds.. come on.. buff closerange self res.

anyone who says ohterwise is IQ lever 90 or below

[turbid hound]

Solo should not be allowed to selfres at all, but that was a somewhat good desicion to introduce to the game.
Selfres is strong as it is. If you make it inconsistent with respawn times, it will make fighting against solos a one big pain in the rear. Duo vs Solo is already a game of finding something to burn before you can rest normally after a battle.

[rough pumice]

yes its a pain in the rear to duos.. try playing solo against duo and see how it feels.. duo bias

self res is soooo easy to counter mr crafik

[mystic ridge]

Blue why are you so agressive

Let the man type

[rough pumice]

because low IQ pisses me off

type for days I quess

[turbid hound]

I speak out of my own experience as solo. If you downed a solo out of your reach, you basically did nothing, lost small chunk of health is not that big of a advantage. You have to carry something to counter selfres to be somewhat sure about your safety.

[rough pumice]

and I am not even Wnglish

[turbid hound]

because i dont type a couple words a message

[rough pumice]

hahahaha

you know nothinf John snow

[mystic ridge]

Solo res only works if you're far away or if there's a big fight going on and you can rez during the chaos essentially

[turbid hound]

and that how it should be

if you can res under enemies noses, and surprise them, that will tip the scales to the solos

[mystic ridge]

I agree

If you want to use solo necro at close range you need high ground or be in a building, something to waste time

[turbid hound]

or wait and guess for more safe times to res, but that can be countered, and that is normal

[rough pumice]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ7QfOby3Vs&ab_channel=MichaelSchmidt

[mystic ridge]

Imagine 5 second rez time with resilence

Oh you died? Be rewarded with a full health bar 5 seconds later

[rough pumice]

full health bar???

Itsa called full health first and formost

[mystic ridge]

[rough pumice]

Ohhh. I love cats.. You are forgiving

[mystic ridge]

The amount of trolls in the discord is actually insane, byeee

[rough pumice]

🙂 when someone disagrees, they are a throll

OK

Got ya

How much sence does it make that after I kill 1 of a duo, I "SOLO" gets downed by his teammate, he has enough time to run over and res his teammate before my timer reaches 2 seconds.. come on.. buff closerange self res.

Come on.. all you duo bias boy's

[mystic ridge]

Die in a better spot

[rough pumice]

Make love not war ;P

Anybody on?

How much sence does it make that after I kill 1 of a duo, I "SOLO" gets downed by his teammate, he has enough time to run over and res his teammate before my timer reaches 2 seconds.. come on.. buff closerange self res.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nygVtq7IXU&ab_channel=NewSitholl

Well atleast self res. is good for MMR downing..

6 star??? no problem.. Just self res kill yourself 10 times.. Nad your 4 star.. BUT BUT waht about the 4 stars that have to face a 6 star???? HA.. FUCK THEM

get gud

[karmic ivy]

Lie

[ember slate]

I don't imagine it's very easy to tell apart a 6-star consistently playing poorly on purpose versus someone who genuinely isn't a 6-star.

When it's, like, those with 4.0 KD in 4-star who've been throwing quickplay matches to keep their KD, then it's obvious.

[ember slate]

As a trio enjoyer, this has sort of always been the rule. If you down someone and can't watch the body, then assume they've been rez'd.

[shut breach]

those who abused reshade are the exacte same type of ppl who cheat on games just to have an unfair advantage and think they are good at the game the truth is they must be asisted by some external shit to have an advantage to be a minimum decent... they must be banned

[brisk timber]

As much as i respect makig the best out of a bad situation
hes not unreasonable
the timers duration right now only incentives playing long range weapon and is hardly useful for a loadout in the sub 50m range

The best idea to counter that and make a wider range of loadouts more viable for self rez is to make the timer distance based

[mystic ridge]

How fast do you want solos to revive

If I shotgun someone from 10 meters, should he land on his feet

[brisk timber]

i think the 5sec mark isnt unreasonable

And then scale upwards every 10m

so a target downed at 100m is down for 10sec

150m 15sec

200m 20sec

so on so forth

would counter sniper players aswell way better

[mystic ridge]

You're still not going to travel 200 meters in 20 seconds to deal with a necro. Long range necro is fine. I just think killing someone and having to be ready for them to be up with full health in the next 5 seconds, potentially with a shotgun is a bit much

If you kill someone in a window in upperdesal, he'll be up before you even get there

[brisk timber]

Your basic thought is wrong tho
You want deny a necro 100%
And i think this shouldnt be the case
The solo should have a reasonable chance to get a second wind
Instead limit the times he can stand back up

[celest spindle]

@crystal plume considering the new update and public take on reshade, is it also gonna be prohibited to talk about said program?

[crystal plume]

It'll be discussed internally at some point how we will handle it going forward but for now only specific videos showing it are blacklisted like before

If it becomes something that we disallow it'll most likely just be filtered by automod

[celest spindle]

Alongsise the upcoming update for the reshade prohibiton will there be any replacement? By that i mean will we get any better graphic modules or personal fx customization or the only thing we should expect will be the engine update?

[crystal plume]

No idea, up to the devs to reveal if there is anything

[celest spindle]

Welp

Hunt was fun while it lasted ig

[tiny pivot]

Neat! Yeah I sure as hell didn’t know that, I appreciate it

[dense sapphire]

They could just remove solo revive 🙂

Oh and red skull revive

Since I’m already beating a dead horse

[hardy coral]

Solo revive is fine at 10 seconds and red skull revives are fine seeing as you can't necro them anymore.

[dense sapphire]

Let’s beat a half decomposed one

Yes, getting permakilled feels bad. Too bad, suck it up

Solo revive just leads to the killers sitting around for several minutes watching them burn out

[hardy coral]

You get ressed with 50 HP max and the guy doing it loses like 45-49 health.

The red revive is more for bringing back already burnt teammates after you get a bounty, much less about reviving a guy another time in an active fight.

[dense sapphire]

Uh huh

And that’s stupid

If you got burnt out, you probably deserve it

[hardy coral]

So giving a team a reason to stick around for bounty to save a burnt teammate is "stupid",

You still can't be revived normally, being burnt is still incredibly punishing since the banish doesn't give you any health back.

[dense sapphire]

Or your teammates are wimps

If you got burnt out, you deserved it

[hardy coral]

I don't see how red revives break this.

[dense sapphire]

You can still get revived with bounty

[hardy coral]

Yeah, you need the bounty to do it. You are visible on the map and had to achieve the bounty somehow. A red revive isn't free or without risk.

[dense sapphire]

No, but the old punishment of complete death was more fitting

[hardy coral]

It was too harsh and just split teams up and made people quit.

Much better now that you have the oppurtunity to save your teammates later on.

[vital fractal]

90% of the time a redskull is complete death anyways due to deadly’s point

[dense sapphire]

Red skull also leads to teams being able to let their team burn out

Burning is supposed to pressure teammate to push

To do something

[hardy coral]

Yeah, if they can then come around later and save them, the guy still gets up on only 50 health.

[vital fractal]

Yes, a very costly decision that requires dedication

[dense sapphire]

With red skull, you can just ignore that

[hardy coral]

You can, to great cost. Better to just stop the fire or res them on a higher amount of health.

[vital fractal]

It does put pressure on a team, no one just “ignores it” unless you’re fighting directly in the compound for the bounty… something a team will do anyways

Most people immediately choke when possible anyways

[dense sapphire]

You say that, but both myself and teams I’ve fought have ignored burning teammates specifically because red skull is an option

[hardy coral]

Okay, enjoy having that as an option.

[dense sapphire]

I don’t

[vital fractal]

Yes, it’s a decision you make.

[dense sapphire]

I also don’t like having to play against it

[vital fractal]

If you consistently allow the others to redskull revive that’s on you

[hardy coral]

Them waiting for the teammate to burn out is just stupid really. It only becomes an option when you have no chokes.

Since you can then only revive them normally, youcan't necro, and you pay in quite a bit of health and so need to heal up and are low when reviving.

[vital fractal]

A normal revive is risky enough, sitting over a teammates body with 100 hp for a full revive time is crazy.

If you know they are redskulling, push-

[dense sapphire]

You’re implying that I’m ever not pushing

I hold W

Real gud

[vital fractal]

Ok at this point this is bait

[hardy coral]

You're meant to hold shift as well.

[vital fractal]

Gg

[dense sapphire]

I hate that red skull is an option and how that influences the game

[hardy coral]

And I love it.

[dense sapphire]

That’s just my opinion

[hardy coral]

[dense sapphire]

I know, that’s why it was added and is still in the game

Is because people like it

I’m just that crabby old man who thinks things were better in the past

Well some things

[hardy coral]

Avto was better with the 2 shot burst...

[dense sapphire]

Not that

Keep that shit gone

Actually, delete the avto

[dense sapphire]

‘‘Twas a jest

[hardy coral]

The rework balanced it.

[dense sapphire]

Doesn’t mean I like it

And actually, is it balanced?

Or just less op

[hardy coral]

I mean balanced.

[dense sapphire]

I dislike it on a ideological level

[hardy coral]

It's still a BS gun that shouldn't be in the game since it isn't really fun on either end but with the rework it was no longer OP.

[dense sapphire]

I bet you 5 bucks it’s going to get nerfed again

[hardy coral]

They'll keep nerfing it because people will complain about it and it's rather easy to just keep bumping up the recoil.

While the Nitro stays as is.

[dense sapphire]

Shredder will get nerfed eventually

Once the community zeitgeist catches up to it

[hardy coral]

They won't.

[dense sapphire]

It’s already on its way

[hardy coral]

I do hope for a full nitro rework instead of just a "nerf".

Drilling gives a good blueprint for a nitro rework.

Turning it instead into a long ammo like variant of it.

[dense sapphire]

Maybe then I’ll finally get my nitro FMJ

[warm mason]

nitro already has best penetration in the game I don't know what more you might want

you can pen 2 walls made of any material

[dense sapphire]

The fabric of reality

[wanton imp]

nitro doesn't need more pen man

[dense sapphire]

If I can’t shoot someone through an entire compound building, it’s not good enough

[wanton imp]

you can in some compounds

[tawny meadow]

I want to shoot hunters that are playing into another game

[dense sapphire]

See

He gets it

Btw nitro FMJ is a joke, though I do think it would be extremely funny

Just wallbang someone underneath pitching from up top

Totally reasonable

[strong ravine]

I can't play anymore, when I take out the reshader I don't see anything, I'm colorblind

[crystal plume]

#latest-update-discussion message

[crude wadi]

update for skin, for reshade, nothing about FULL packetloss everygame?

even in fire stand?

[celest spindle]

theres hope

[stuck creek]

@wanton imp If you go see the manual in the menu (or in game) you can find all the 4 boss with weakness and how to kills them

Same with all the ennemis

[wanton imp]

i know man i mean in game

could also be used to test various things on the bosses

[obsidian narwhal]

@spice parrot absolutely love the idea, I'm really hoping for something like that eventually being added into the game

[stark fulcrum]

So no colorblind options coming soon?

[hot vigil]

Don't expect it until after the engine update with is soonTM (nov/dec is my guess).

[analog willow]

Reply from Violet: “We are looking into more accessibility options for the future and will share more details once they are available.”

[analog willow]

This will likely be removed by the moderators so to not distribute the information. Might be best to remove the photo so the entire post isn’t removed👍

[mystic rain]

Okay where should I send it then

[analog willow]

The text you accompanied the photo with was fine. The photo of the code wasn’t something they’d want distributed

[analog willow]

I wish I had an answer for that❤️ As of right now, I think you alerting the dev team here is fine, but often things get missed here since it’s a discussion board. Hang tight and I’m sure a Mod will be along with more information than I can offer👍

I know the Mod ‘Finall’ is tremendously nice, if you want to shoot them a DM with the info, they’ll be able to send that off to right place

Amon is another tremendously nice Moderator if you can’t find Finall in the mod list due to them being offline

[analog willow]

Also, it is a Friday night for many, and the weekend for others, so you may not get a reply. But speaking for the community, thank you for reporting it👍 We don’t need anymore cheaters

[brazen shoal]

@upbeat axle 150-200 ping is not a good enough ping cap. max ping should be 110-120.

[next ember]

#game-ideas message

I kinda agree but I think thats too far. If they introduced some sort of crafting system or form of alternative loot then that could be cool if they do it right.

[barren robin]

did they intend 'gunrunner' to lose skins for people?

friggin.... lame.

[simple helm]

new suggestion just dropped, everyone go like it

[simple helm]

goood goood

everything is coming together

[analog willow]

What do you mean?

[neon basalt]

seriously: fix the servers! the stuttering when facing pvp or even pve is not just annoying, but GAME BRAKER, puts you in frank disadvantage and lowers the user experience quality below an acceptable line for a AAA game which is gorgeous and a great game, not to mention the constant desync. WHEN are we having an official statement about the obviously OUTDATED server infrastructure?

[flat sandal]

the servers are being worked on

personally I don't think it's as bad as you describe. This stuff takes time as well and could also depend on your isp or location

sometimes I get rubber banding but that's relatively rare, maybe once every other game. nothing I would call game breaking. what does it look like for you?

seems to vary as well, most of the time there is nothing at all. one time there was a phase where I considered it an issue when the player count wasn't even high. so either they were in the process of messing with the servers or it was server unrelated.

[neon basalt]

I guess there are many experiences, I have been playing not much, like 1000 hours. I can tell you: with a 300GB symetric connection, a 4080GPU you can notice if those stuttterings are from server side or player side. I notice this stuttering specially when approaching some buildings, when teamates approach or some times (not always) when PvP. The desync...well what can I tell you, I don't think the servers have more than 20Hz ticket rate (not stable TBH). I agree that there are some days that the game feels super smooth, but in my case it is pretty rare. I play with 60-70 ping USA East or West so I can tell you with all honesty and respect: the great experience of this game can be ruined when server is constantly working bad. I really hope we may receive a better server infrastructure because I see more and more players taking interest in this game for a simple reason: it is an amazing game and devs have done a great game...

[flat sandal]

I saw a comment from the devs about the tick rate somewhere if I remember correctly. can't for the live of me not remember where and when.

that's quite the setup you have there. maybe it's just too fast^^

so the experiences varies then because I don't have these issues at all. there was also a post describing how to find out if it is a routing issue. has anyone got the link?

[unborn dagger]

@simple helm I agree with some of your flashbomb changes like the vision blur and deafness but stuff like having reduced turn speed and having more weapon sway. Those two additions make it way too strong in a game where you only fire once really.

[simple helm]

@unborn dagger without sway and reduced turn speed. you would just get insta killed by the guy using a shotgun. or fanning

[unborn dagger]

Yea but for people that don't use fanning(I never use it 99% of the time) or shotty, they get screwed over hard and is essentially in the same situation where people complain about it being an instant kill throwable.

Like they already have deafness and blurred vision, that's strong without it being op imo

[little carbon]

Colorblind options and other accessibility options are always a balancing act in competitive games like Hunt. They need to be designed in a way in which a person that doesn't require the option to be turned on gets nothing from turning it on.
A simple example would be an option that shows sounds as text on your screen as an option for deaf players.
A non-deaf player would get a tremendous advantage out of enabling that option.
So I wouldn't be surprised if it takes them a little while to create good settings that can remain in the game.
And in the end it is preferable that they wait until they can implement something good as opposed to something imbalanced.

[hot vigil]

Tho, if you cannot wait, windows have a color blind option.

[flat sandal]

Hunt has colours?^^

Btw, can you do something to make dark scenes have more contrast? Not even sure its the right word even. For me the Image looks almost Binary sometimes and I can't quite figure out why. It's really weird and sometimes like the Black and blue dress, I can sometimes switch between the Image looking annoyingly washed out and then kinda fitting to the Art style. Not sure if that makes sense it's a Tricky topic to talk about . If something could be done there it probably should. I wonder what Ray tracing would do there.

[hot vigil]

what monitor do you have?

[flat sandal]

The other day in looked through a door and didn't see anything, then the kid suddenly emerged from the background.

Some LG ISP panel

I know it's not great for this game

[hot vigil]

I need the full product to be able to help :v

[flat sandal]

Have Video of the incident

Ah

27gn800p

Contrast is a oddly difficult thing to understand

[hot vigil]

You wanna look at the panel types.
IPS should be fine enough to do good contrast of darkness

Ah no wait

"IPS (In-Plane Switching) panels are the stand-out performers when it comes to viewing angles, color reproduction, vibrancy, and general image quality. This makes them the best for photo editing, video editors, and general content creation. Having said that, they don’t perform that well when it comes to producing deep, inky blacks – a crown that is held by VA (or OLED) panels."

Was thinking of TN panels

IPS panels can struggle with darkness

[flat sandal]

Yeah va is better

Just don't fully understand why and if something can be done from the games side.

[hot vigil]

You are very much limited by your hardware

[flat sandal]

😦

[hot vigil]

Think it like a monitor that only goes up to 1080p

[flat sandal]

I wish I was rich enough for an oled panel

[hot vigil]

Don't we all

[flat sandal]

They are becoming an option for gaming now so soon they'll be cheaper I hope. That would fix a lot of thw games issues I think

I'll Post the Video when I get the chance. It was kinda funny. The moment I saw him a teammate blocked me and we were both dead.

[hot vigil]

Please do :D

[hardy coral]

What prevents stuff like the explosive crossbow from being properly balanced is Bulwark

Explosive crossbow vs bulwark is basically useless.

[karmic ivy]

@upbeat axle What indicates that "hit registration is not where it's supposed to be"?

There does not seem to be a problem with Chinese players in the US west server. As far as I am concerned they are welcome to play here if they want to accept the disadvantage of increased latency. They only go down easier, I won't complain.

I have found (using shadowplay, 2.5 years in hunt now) hit reg is right on.

[flat sandal]

poor hard drive^^

It would honestly be really cool if anyone experiencing these awful things would start recording everything with shadowplay or something and post some clips. I have done that now as well. About 25 matches in and I have nothing to report either.

[hot vigil]

Your friends outline kinda masks him a lot

[flat sandal]

yes but look where he is before as well

going around the corner

for my mind he materialised in thg middle of the screen 😄

don't mind my reaction time^^

that match also ended on the last too ppl trading

[graceful bluff]

@wraith grail I actually think this is a good way to nerf the uppercut and buff the uppermat

incredibly simple but I can see it being very effective

[barren robin]

if you have gunrunner, grab a gun with an unowned skin, extract, then in the loby you 'own' that gun (ie, not contraband), but if you unequip it, the gun gets dropped into your stack of 'owned' weapons, and loses its skin.

[rotund obsidian]

@main current #game-ideas message how bout we just make it so if you kill a teammate, you're cursed and die upon extracting, unless they're revived. boom, teamkilling now affects yourself, and gives a damn good reason to not abandon teammates after accidental teamkills either. I figure this would only apply to randoms but i don't think it would matter too much if it was in premades too (depending on how redskull interacts with it)

[queen jungle]

A team kill always affects yourself since your team is significantly weaker afterwards.

If someone intentionally TKs you, just report them and move on.

[unborn dagger]

Ain't the only thing that affects you is negative bloodline xp? Not sure if that matters much for people who don't prestige

[queen jungle]

Yes, there is a punishment for teamkilling to make people be more careful to avoid accidental TKs

[atomic cipher]

why does feedback section now looks like Suggestions-ideas? Is that a reqwuirment?

[unborn dagger]

It is to make it look more consistent and less messy

[queen jungle]

The idea is to make it more easy for the team at Crytek to collect specific feedback. For example, you are looking for feedback on the balance of the Drilling? Just scroll through titles to find what posts you are looking for intead of having to read every single individual post.

[analog willow]

<—- Frequent offender of the multiple topics in one post😋 Very much like the formatting change

[hardy coral]

Forgot the price, oops. It'd be about 105-115 dollars. Would basically be a third of the cost of the obrez.

[raw bane]

Kurze Frage? Lest ihr überhaupt die Meldungen, wenn jemand einen Spieler meldet?

[crystal plume]

Please keep it english only outside the regional and LFG sections 🙂 And yes reports do get looked at and investigated

[graceful silo]

OMG finally they ban Reshade. It's been 4 Years pass by

[midnight wolf]

Why does Devant have such a high chance of spawn fights? From what I have experienced it's almost 50/50

[brisk timber]

#feedback message
@prime ibex Not a bug tho. If oil or liquid fire burns around the hunter he will take constant burn dmg even tho he himselfe is not ignited. Its intended.

[analog willow]

I think they might be saying that there were no indicators that health bars were being burned. @prime ibex Want to elaborate a little more?

[brisk timber]

hm does the Skull-with-flames icon work when the player is not ignited but is downed in flames?

from a coding perspective not beeing ignited probably will not trigger the icon

so you have no indicator

[upbeat axle]

100 ping would not be an issue, within that range you still have comparable rendering. However to eu they have over 200 which , because the game is client side rendered, causes some really strange and aggravating situations. Think sound rendering, being killed while already behind cover, super delayed trading, etc.
Glad they are not a problem on US though, but that additional 100 ping on top of that, is where the game gets really fucky.

[brisk timber]

Hit-Reg is client sided. So usually what you see on your screen is what you get. That and bullet airtime is why we trade so often in hunt. Every shot is valid this way - for both players. So other peoples lag shouldnt have disadvantages in the hitreg.

BUT

The hitreg in Hunt can be off sometimes but thats because the servers often act up

So yea - while everything can look comically out of sync like you said (dying behind cover and all that) its not an inherit advantage or disadvantage for any party - everyone landet their shots fair and square.

[rotund obsidian]

i find bullet airtime is rarely a factor in trades, considering the vast majority of trades are at point-blank where travel time is practically negligible

[brisk timber]

In my opinion there just shouldnt be region choosing by the player at all
Hunt should do this automatically choosing the best server available for the party composition

[rotund obsidian]

i agree

hell even just doing host's region would be fine for groups, that way you have a little bit of control but only if you're playing with friends cross-region

[prime ibex]

Due to a fire bomb being dropped on my friend in heavy rain, he never lit but burned entirely with no immediate indication that he was burning even without igniting. Now his health was burning away slowly but the fact that there's no warning that he's burning regardless kinda sucks, cause he goes by warning indicators the lot of the time and makes it really easy to miss.

[analog willow]

Gotchya. I’d maybe adjust the post and include that blurb you just wrote

[prime ibex]

Aight

[brisk timber]

Yea thats a legit complain that theres no indicator
But the burning in itselfe without ignition is intended

[karmic ivy]

I play with a friend from the EU, we usualy play together on US east. He can get avg. 100ms ping time.
My latency to EU is as you say around 200ms avg.

I am fine with anyone who can make it under the ping limit. 250ms is generous enough, and yet I don't see it causing any trouble here.

[brisk timber]

#game-ideas message
@NuCore
Too abuseable. People would just terminate their connection to cut losses in bad situations.

The recon is a piece of work but either that or complete loss of hunter. No inbetween or it would be abused.

[celest spindle]

your teammate did you dirty

i thought it was cuz you looked down to view the monitor from an up-angle to brighten your screen, but nah 🤣

[brisk timber]

@queen jungle this is probably the better channel to react to suggestion. React to suggestion via suggestion isnt liked/allowed.

np. i rather give people a heads up before mods do their thing.

[midnight wolf]

Matchmaking on console has been absolute shit lately! We are consistently matched with higher skilled players. It used to be a lot better before recent updates. I guess my suggestion is: Fix the damn matchmaking. How do you other (more or less) consistent 4 stars feel about the current state of the game?

[leaden nacelle]

Feedback: for every new weather condition; you (crytek) find a way for people's hate.. now at first; we loved rain. now all hate it! thx for your %80 wild rule!! i guess i will delete the game just because of your hard push about this weather!

[brisk timber]

Guys tbh this is #feedback stuff
Comon

[leaden nacelle]

Rakki where should i write my feedback so ?

[queen jungle]

@zealous gyro The only posts that get removed are one that violate the server's rules or channel-specific rules.
We do not "censor" anything because it's critical of Crytek or Hunt.

[dusky tapir]

@mellow mural #game-ideas message The problem I see with things like C&K Handcannon is that now you have a much scarier option for CQC damage while carrying a full size rifle

terminus handcannon is already kinda bordering what's "safe" for a handcannon imo

[mellow mural]

Maybe things are different at different skill levels or on platforms, and I'm seriously not making this a dig or anything, but I'm 6 Star Console, top 300, and nobody runs Terminus Handcanon, it's a bit of a joke. You get smoked by any real shotgun.

I don't think I've been killed more then 5 times ever by anyone using a Terminus HC. Layer that with the god awful recoil and sway it'd have, I genuinely can't take the idea of a C&K Handcannon actually being a threat seriously.

[dusky tapir]

then why have it?

[mellow mural]

The same reason we have star shell.

[dusky tapir]

if that's the argument you are going to make there's no point in having anything that isn't immediately meta

[mellow mural]

I'm not making the argument we shouldn't have it or have non-meta things? I want a C&K while knowing it won't be meta??

That sounds like the argument you seem to be making, actually.

[dusky tapir]

you ought to learn how to read

🤔

I'd prefer the C&K to stay a 3 slot , e.g. sawed off with a 7 round drum ( like in the l*aks )

the obrez and uppercut exists in 2 / 1 slot respectively but I feel recoil and most importantly sway are more relevant on long range weapons than a shotgun

then again there's a reason the uppercut is overused

[frozen crater]

@vagrant carbon there is absolutely no way you think the officer pistol should have less than bornheim damage

[dusky tapir]

officer pistol's damage is low enough to not 2hk to the limbs iirc

unlike new army

[frozen crater]

New army can 1 body + 1 arm tap a hunter

[dusky tapir]

there

you right

[frozen crater]

Can't do so against legs tho

[dusky tapir]

I forgot the exact combo

[mellow mural]

You ought to learn how to articulate what your actual stance is. Or perhaps punctuate your sentences.

A C&K would not be more dangerous then a levering Terminus HC, you asked why it should even be in the game. I don't know what to tell you. I'm cool with non-meta weapons existing.

[frozen crater]

New army goated for having fmj

Still can't hit shit with it beyond 20m tho lol

[dusky tapir]

downside of mailing bullets instead of using gunpowder

[frozen crater]

Firing range makes it seem like the strongest sidearm

Profoundly sad that real hunters actually move and shoot back!!

[frozen crater]

not making a jab at console but there's almost no comparison between the average console lobby vs average PC lobby when it comes to balancing

the metas are just so different until you hit high star console, in which Case it becomes a lot more similar to PC.

[mellow mural]

Yes, I am/was top 300 on my preferred console, I'm a 6 star, that's what I'm saying. And I'm saying I have no fear whatsoever of someone using a Terminus HC.

[frozen crater]

also I didn't bother to read the whole convo I literally wanted to inject myself like a leech into the convo so I won't have any profound response to any recurring theme in the convo

[hot vigil]

@vagrant carbon
The LeMat have the option of a shotgun, the officer does not.
Not to say Officer ain't a strong gun, but it doesn't makes sense to compare those two guns.

[hardy coral]

They compete for the same slot and give you the edge at close range in different ways.

I wouldn't pair them with the same guns though.

[analog willow]

@queen jungle How’d that second match go?😂 Did they end up on the ground at your feet to start the game?

[queen jungle]

I ran directly in the lobby. He dropped a dynamite stick on us. he even cooked it to make sure we would die

[analog willow]

That’s not good

[queen jungle]

the thing is, I reported in detail, offered video amd all I see as a result is a pairing...

[karmic ivy]

what is your expectation?

[queen jungle]

simple and short lines of code that resolve things... this ain´t cod... or is it?

[karmic ivy]

how does that fit into what you said just before that? how does lines of code relate to your report and your expectations?

[brisk timber]

#feedback if you want that devs read it like at all
this channel is mostly for players discussing things from the other channels

But im with you on flashes.
I wish instead of a completely white there would be an effect like poison but a bit stronger and white

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/401019644938289153/1136304523799969815/flash.png

[queen jungle]

A tk`er getting paired again with those he killed and that reported him shortly after the occurrence is avoidable if players reported for TK automatically don´t get paired with those they killed. Easy to code into match making. Even better to ban but a pretty easy way to have automated actions

[queen jungle]

@gleaming lantern @sage pawn @rocky heath @ionic glen Please add a more detailed description to your suggestions so other users know why they should vote for your idea.

@small wolf Please move your post to #feedback as it does not feature any specific suggestion.

@viral merlin @reef smelt @unborn knoll @queen jungle @royal chasm @halcyon pasture @cedar helm @magic lantern @vital fractal @queen jungle Please add more detailed and/or clear feedback to your posts in #feedback as such brief and low-effort posts are not very insightful.

[karmic ivy]

What about the time needed to process the report and investigate its veracity? You do not include that in your statement there. Do you think it not important and necessary?

[queen jungle]

an automated process through script is quite fast. It prevents stuff like this happening and gives the support plenty of time to have a look at it.

[unborn knoll]

Not sure how I could be more clear..... I'm an mmr 3 player seeing mmr 5 solos with wildly different (much higher) kda's.

Did you look at the photos I uploaded? There were two.

You say I'm pulling some low effort, how about you don't spend what effort you do muster to be rude?

To expand:

1. Fix the matchmaking system.
2. MMR 5s in MMR 3 lobbies should not be allowed.
3. Your MMR should drop a half-point but not 2 full points for matchmaking just because you're solo.
4. Players with 1.8 KDA's shouldn't match against players closer to 1.1, 1.2.

Better?

[celest spindle]

Its gettin heated in here

[crystal plume]

Honestly, that's a very neglible difference in KD

[vital fractal]

1.1 vs 1.8 is actually not that “neglible”

Sure when it’s relatively common to have 0.84 k/d vs 2.73 k/d in a game, a 1.1 vs 1.8 seems small but it truly isn’t 👁👁

K/D isn’t everything, but it’s something

Like every stat used as a balancing measure, all the little things add up to a whole

(And no, I didn’t pull those numbers out of thin air either 🗿)

[crystal plume]

I'll just agree to disagree 😄 I can see 0.84 k/d vs 2.73 k/d being something worth criticizing to some degree, but not 1.1 k/d vs 1.8 k/d

Or especially 1.25 vs 1.89 that he had in his original feedback

[vital fractal]

A difference of ~.6 in a k/d ratio is something of note, now it’s not like it’s the difference between a 2 star and a 6 star player, but it is of note.

[hardy coral]

KDA should never and will never be factored into matching. The brackets of allowable quickly found games should be narrowed and the MMR penalty for playing as solo or duo in larger games should be reduced.

[vital fractal]

K/D should absolutely be factored in and I find it preposterous that it isn’t in some fashion.

[late quartz]

Significant changes in k/d take an extremely long amount of time once you have any real sample size for your stats

[vital fractal]

It would add stability to the MMR factor for that exact reason

[crystal plume]

If KD was a factor, you could just absolutely tank it to the point where it would take a significant amount of kills without deaths to go back up

[late quartz]

That's like... A terrible way to make MMR more stable... If you want smaller MMR swings you can just directly change how quickly MMR changes

[hardy coral]

It can change quite quickly because the allowable quickly found matches and penalty for playing solo are quite large!

Just fix those and it'll move at a proper rate.

[vital fractal]

As how people do directly anyways via Necro solo?

[crystal plume]

That's not the same though 😄

Since that's the beauty of MMR, it's more fluid

[vital fractal]

But ultimately it is

Since it achieves the same goal

[late quartz]

Nobody likes how Necro affects stats and MMR right now it's not something anybody will defend

[crystal plume]

And you can't tank it to stay low for nearly as long as you could with KD

[late quartz]

In a world where those issues are fixed, and they almost certainly will be, k/d remains pretty problematic as a metric for matchmaking

[crystal plume]

It would be way more convenient to abuse matchmaking by tanking KD if it was a factor that having to tank it through current methods every other day or so

With KD you just do it for a week or so and you get at least a month of easier matches before your KD goes up enough to matter

[vital fractal]

That’s an issue though, you have people jumping from 3-5 stars consistently in an afternoon

[vital fractal]

Stability to the MMR system utilizing KD would benefit people though, as although yes there will be some basement dweller who decides to lose their hunter multiple times for a week straight as you stated, that would be the outlier not the norm, and hence the increased stability would benefit the majority of the player base by promoting more even playing odds

KD shouldn’t be the “only factor”, I’ve never said that, but it should be “A factor”

[late quartz]

Why do you want k/d to be a factor at all? Why not just slow MMR changes in all instances ._.

[vital fractal]

Ok here’s a scenario

[late quartz]

It just seems like it's some easily identifiable number to pin frustrations on more than anything

If you couldn't see stars or k/d and all you had to go off of was the fact that some guy shot you quicker than you shot him would your suggestion really be that this person's k/d was to blame?

[hardy coral]

Player gets 5 kills when they start playing gets put in 6 star lobbies

[simple helm]

KDA is the only statistic that matters when it comes to skill calculation, anyone who says differently is a strange person

[late quartz]

So when you're doing matchmaking for professional chess

You just have a grand master who got there by dunking school children

[simple helm]

relative KDA

[late quartz]

Huge win rate, no relative skill calculations at all

[simple helm]

not gross KDA

[late quartz]

Okay. That's literally not kda

[vital fractal]

1. You have player A, typical hunt Showdown player who has an average life and average skill and ends up with a KD (not KDA) of 1.13. We include that random chance of hunt giveth, and taketh matches.

2. You have player B, with an average KD of 2.32. Absolute chad utilizing mosin to its best ability, just a great gamer.

3. You have player C, the man who’s nagant you hear fan at the start of a match cause he was scared of the armored he saw 35 m away on spawn. He has a k/D of 0.89.

It’s possible for all of these people to be considered 4 stars. You’re telling me that all 3 are considered balanced when it’s clear to people who play this game that a string of luck on Player C and arguable Player A means they can truly compete against player B?

[simple helm]

that literally is. when a game is balanced around KDA

[late quartz]

That's a different statistic and it can't be expressed as a silly little ratio lol

[simple helm]

if players are matched against others of similar KDA ratios. whoever ends up on top is going to be the more skilled player

[vital fractal]

KD is something that shows off average ability much better than the MMR system

MMR is about recent matches really, KD is lifetime average of skill

[late quartz]

KDA is a simple division operation, relative skill calculations are massive sprawling algebraic nightmares

They're not even remotely similar in any way

[vital fractal]

I can go de rank myself right now to a 3 star

But my Kd would probably drop .01 maybe .02

[simple helm]

so you're telling me someone with a .50 KDA is beating someone with a 1.8 KDA?

hunt needs to introduce short term KDA statistics. and thats pretty much ALL the MMR system is. just with less obviousness

[vital fractal]

So KD would 100% add some form of reliable stability to the MMR function with how stable it inherently is

[simple helm]

instead of having stars. just group players based on their short term KDA rating

[halcyon pasture]

dang wait thats a really good idea

[simple helm]

people will be a lot less confused

and they wont feel as deflated if they drop stars

[vital fractal]

Yeah, it’s called placement- as you increase your play time, the more accurate your KD gets.

Sampling size and all, this is such a strawman lmao.

[simple helm]

i mean. short term KDA is already the way hunt showdown does match making. they just dont make it obvious thats the way it works

[late quartz]

I'm not really sure what your point is here... Yes players of wildly different skill should not be matched in the same game... The problem with this hypothetical you're posing is that you're explicitly bundling player skill and KD.
That's the contention, that player skill and KD are not directly correlated. If you just told me the KDs yeah I'd imagine A and C are both average players and player B could be significantly better than average or there could be a wide number of confounding factors that lead to that stat. It's incomplete info.

[simple helm]

Exact KD is not accurate. but a K/D range is perfectly accurate

introduce K/D by time. introduce filters for ( all time, 3 months, 1 month, 2 weeks. 1 week )

[vital fractal]

You just said you could, from K/D alone make a decent assumption that others clearly share.

It will never be complete info, you will never have a players full history- and no system will ever be perfect but we cannot let perfect be the enemy of improvement.

Aro is making great points too to improve.

[late quartz]

Aro you have acknowledged that lifetime KD isn't really that useful so it's a little confusing what your point is.

You're saying hunt already uses short term relative KD for its MMR, which isn't EXACTLY accurate but it's not totally useless framing.

If you think hunt already does this, what's the issue you have?

[simple helm]

then you can see skill based on how that player is doing in a WEEK

[late quartz]

Do you just want the visible skill rating to be KD instead so people whine less?

[simple helm]

lifetime KD is a useful statistic to see where a player GENERALLY sits

[vital fractal]

When did anyone ever imply this?

[simple helm]

but the longer that person plays, the more useless it is

[late quartz]

Improvement is good, progress is great, not all changes are progress or improvements. Bad metrics could be worst than no metrics

[simple helm]

i've been playing since beta, and my KD wouldnt change more than .05 points for weeks

[late quartz]

I'm asking Aro what their core issue is

[simple helm]

the core issue is people dont understand that MMR system and its not transparent enough

and people pretend that KD is not a drive force for player skill

[late quartz]

Nobody understands any matchmaking system. Point to a game where people boardly get how it works and don't complain ._.

[simple helm]

because there is no available short term KD stat that people can look at

[late quartz]

This is a universal issue in gaming right now and KD has never done anything but make people more frustrated and angry about the perceived fairness of a system

[simple helm]

the only time where KD becomes an inaccurate statistic is when a player predominately runs close range. where RNG is massively increased

that being said. when i team up with people, i dont care too much about KD

[late quartz]

It's just sort of hard to track what you mean cause I can't tell if you mean KD or this "relative KD" thing

I'm lost I'll be honest

[simple helm]

another point that could be said about KD is that if you choose to handicap yourself by bringing a subpar loadout. that could negatively affect your standing

gross KD would be if all KDs were matched with each other

relative would be KD if people were matched with their KD brackets

[hardy coral]

And how is this any different from doing it by MMR?

[late quartz]

That... Sounds nice but like mathematically what is that lol

[hardy coral]

If your "KD bracket" is determined mostly by your most recent kills and deaths then it's just the same result as MMR but with different ways to cheat the system, but now there's also ways to get ruined by it.

[simple helm]

if you put a decent player with noobies and grandmas, hes quickly gonna get a 5.0KD where as you may have a signficantly better player than him with a 1.9 because he consistently gets matched with people of his skill level

the only issue i have is people not to stop with the bullshit that " KD doesnt not matter to assess your skill level "

thats it