feedback-discussion

[little carbon]

There is no reason for one. It would just prevent international friends from playing together without achieving anything useful

[brisk timber]

thanks for your valuable feedback that has nothing to do with the topic.

🤡

[brisk timber]

thats a bit harsh isnt it? i play 80% of my time with people from usa because i naturally meet them like on this discord or in the community

But the region choosing shouldnt be a thinng

[rocky fog]

It actually is needed. EU servers are being flooded by Asian and east-Russian players, getting killed through stone walls and stuff keeps being fun for a short amount of time.

[brisk timber]

form a group - game decides which server you play on

[rocky fog]

Yes, thank you, this is what I was going for

[little carbon]

That's what I am saying tho? There is no upside to region lock

[brisk timber]

i can see and im in favor of this.
But you dont just highjack another convo like this. a bit rude isnt it 😄

[brisk timber]

oh shit yea sorry, i misread!

[little carbon]

You gain no advantage for having high ping. You dying behind a wall in reality is you living extra time due to the opponents ping

[rocky fog]

Yeah, my apologies for that, I'm just a bit frustrated with the game and saw people talking about DLC

[little carbon]

No worries

[somber jewel]

90% of the people who complain about people from diff regions playing on "THEIR" server just think they are getting highping'd

but theyre not

[brisk timber]

Yea nobody has any inherit advantage
but playing with or against high pings feels shitty because things can be delayed
even so it doesnt effect the fairness

[rocky fog]

You actually do, as the game tries to predict your next move, but if you're twitching all over the place, the predictions are wrong, and your hit won't be a hit. You often find this out far too late.

[somber jewel]

I can't possibly imagine someone going through the annoyance of playing an fps with 250+ ping, just so they can "dodge" bullets from opponents based on exploit

[little carbon]

That isn't true. Your hits are only based on the data of your client

[brisk timber]

Hunt works client side - so thats a bit different than in most other games

[rocky fog]

The game works indeed a bit different, and I've had way too many fights where I know I should've hit the person, but it didn't register. But I'm sorry for interrupting your guys convo, please carry on and don't mind me 🙂

[sturdy dove]

Are there any informations on what the stand is on the rain? (The Frequency and the Sound of rain to be specific)

[brisk timber]

The last time i heard dev respons is some weeks ago in the news
In wildcards rain was like 60% chance ? and i think they just put it like that into normal rotations

[little jackal]

and coincidentally no clips from those fights yeah?

[flat sandal]

sounds good. not sure if people happy about having to work for the stuff they bought^^

[rocky fog]

I'll have to check if I shadowplayed any of those lately. To be fair, most of them I just exit the round and check where they're from if the fights seem shady/off.

[flat sandal]

holy. I did not know this was a thing ty

[brisk timber]

its a matter of how you look at it - the quests are part of the feature

catered to players that wanna have longterm goals

maybe you could do 2 dlcs

[flat sandal]

yeah i like it

[brisk timber]

one for $10 without quest

one for $5 with quest

[flat sandal]

hmm not so sure about that^^

smells like dodgy sales strategy

I like this fifield guy, I wish they'd do these things more often

eyyyy, custom lobbies

[little jackal]

he's the one who took our BBs from us

the nice dwarf looks are deceptive

[analog willow]

I’m the one responsible for that😈

[flat sandal]

I saw that word "fifield" a lot and it always confused me^^

[analog willow]

But that was an inevitability, I believe. The game is getting bigger and no one was buying BB’s. Lots you can do with that additional stream. More developers for maps, bosses, bigger events, content, ect..

[flat sandal]

I saw that video before but all that stuff didnt register back then

[analog willow]

(Only joking😋)

[analog willow]

Me too! I didn’t even hear that part about David loving custom lobbies and actively pushing for them. Seems like it’s definitely going to happen

[flat sandal]

that's huge

[brisk timber]

#game-ideas message

@fallen dome
Try to move out of Bounty DarkSight detection range
if people feel save they usually move

You gotte give them room to move if you want them moving

[tiny pivot]

thinking about how hunt seems to love to be upset about necromancer solo as its a double edged sword, meanwhile when i play nowadays i actively hate using the perk in lower stars because people play like such babies over it that id rather just have a perk to prevent death in the first place.

ive died so many times to people not even placing traps like sensible people, but sitting afk in a corner watching the solo body praying for a necromancer revive, slowing the game down a lot.

food for thought, maybe it might help someone other than me, but i almost always just opt to go for a more relevant perk instead 😂 lately ive been picking levering by removing all traits on my legendary hunters and getting it, that helps a lot more to save you from death than necro does, by just... killing the enemies

[brisk timber]

The problem is that self revive made its debute in last event
people were unexperienced or straight up unaware

So with the timer at 4sec people were straight up caught in their reload animation or revive of a friend

Everyone was complaining and it got nerfed

Fast forward to now - everyone is used to self revive and the 10sec timer is fairly high
Its a complete joke

[stark fulcrum]

Necro for solos and teams is still obnoxious. Should only be 1 or 2 charges for it.

Teams chain rezzing and solos being captain america reviving 5 times making people run around looking for traps and ways to counter is out of control. Especially with resilience.

Add an antidote shot in the mix and even poison and wire combos won't take them down.

[tribal wyvern]

@fallen dome Why do the bounty team have to go out? Why aren't you forced to go inside?
The issue isn't the ones inside, the issue is the difference in loadout. How is it fair to force them to go outside obvious doorways with pistols vs whatever medium/long ammo is waiting outside at 60+m distance.

They have the bounty that you are after, it's your objective to retrieve it & for them to guard it & find a way to escape.
Besides bounty team will know how many people exactly there are, so if they see 3 teams of trios, why would they go out? They'll wait for an opportunity.

I remember a guy calling me a camper because i was inside with a shotgun & he was outside with mosin. And he said "i'm not camping, how can i camp when outside?" Some people are born dropped from a ceiling i swear..

People run like mosin/uppercut or sparkpistol, melee medic choke bombs & throwing axe.
Then 2 vit shots, 1 stam shot & a frag.
Then goes like "yo wtf these shotgun campers, come outside man, stop camping."
While bringing NOTHING to be able to actually deal with the situation. Like antidote/poison crossbow.

[frozen crater]

Is there any reason why the regular lemat looks so wimpy when its not in its shotgun form?

the perspective only looks normal when you switch its fire mode for some reason

this is for its hipfire model

[tiny pivot]

I'm not sure what you mean by this, they just hold it slightly differently when you have the shotgun mode activated

[tiny pivot]

I agree, I think it should be limited like that
and also before the fellow solo players come out of the woodwork, if anyone else can seriously tell me they actually get use out of necro reviving below like 100 hp, I'd be surprised

once you're below 100 it's like there's no point to bothering to revive, you just get instanuked by anything, shotgun pistol long ammo etc, and I mean I guess you could wait out the people to leave the compound and save your character but at that rate its just death cheat lite if people dont bother to burn/ trap you.

[frozen crater]

im referring to it looking slightly different

it looks really small

[tiny pivot]

I've never noticed anything different, maybe that's just me. It might be perspective or the way your screen cuts it off, I'm gonna go into range and see for myself

so, I figured out your problem, this might just be a small issue but its just straight up held closer to your face in shotgun form

probably to emphasize the fact its the shotgun variant and is closer range

forgive my ultrawide monitor

[unborn dagger]

Weird but makes sense

[stark fulcrum]

Totally agree man. People wanna talk about guys camping inside when they're outside a mile away with long ammo lol.

[late quartz]

Firstly, it's equally as much the bounty carriers goal to get out and extract. Neither side is more incentivized to get the game moving. Nobody wins if bounty AFKs until the timer runs out.

Secondly, it's much easier to create systems that dislodge gridlocks by focusing on the bounty carrier. Having bounty is a pretty unique state in Hunt, and creating special rules around holding bounties is much easier than universal rules to counter people camping outside boss lairs.

The issue isn't that one side is more justified than the other, the issue is that both sides create gridlock and detract from the core of the game.

15~20+ minute stalemates at boss lair aren't fun for anybody, and there needs to be a systemic solution to this unhealthy gameplay loop. It's easier to get people out of the boss lair than it is to get people to... not... stand near the boss lair???

Going for the bounty should be a risk, it puts a target on your back, you are suddenly the center of the match's primary objective. If you take the risk of being the first team to carry a bounty, it makes more sense that the burden is on you to make an escape rather than giving you the opportunity to set up a perfect killing floor for the rest of the lobby.

[stark fulcrum]

I agree there needs to be a solution. That said, it needs to be a solution that doesn't make you charge lair with shotgun campers OR rush outside into sniper fire. Echoing your statement mostly @late quartz

End of the day though its the attackers job to push not bounties.

Imo

[late quartz]

The problem is that people in an entrenched position have major advantages and are much more able to create dramatically asymmetrical fights.

It doesn't make for good gameplay when the game wants you to walk into instant death shotgun blasts

Granted, long range loadouts are also pretty unhealthy, but shotguns in buildings shouldn't be treated as less problematic

Defenders chose to be defenders. If you choose to take on the burden of carrying a bounty I don't think that entitles you to choose the pace of all future fights.

[stark fulcrum]

Again though, thats the attackers job. The bounty team arrived first, killed boss, why should they be obligated to run outside then? I agree with you there need to be some sort of solution, its just hard to find one thats fair.

One of those problems i doubt we will ever see solved

[late quartz]

Because they need to extract

The game isn't "get the bounty", the game is "get to extract with the bounty"

[stark fulcrum]

Its also not a game of run through Bush camping sniper fire lol

[late quartz]

EVERYBODY should be incentivized to keep the pace of the game moving. I don't want anybody to be encouraged to sit around

[stark fulcrum]

Flip sides to it all is all im saying

[late quartz]

I'd remove scopes in a heartbeat

Right now we're having massive butthurt uprising because people who can't manage to play the game without scopes are getting more fog maps than they like LOL

That's... a really good solution to the negative effects of giving players extremely long range weapons

[stark fulcrum]

Lol thats true

Id rather fight shotguns than snipers

[frozen crater]

yeah thats exactly what ive been describing

the uppermat doesnt have the same perspective mechanic

just dont know why its only relegated to the smallmat

[late quartz]

I'd like to give both sides more tools to keep the pace of the game up, but as it stands it's a bigger advantage to have bounty in boss lair with shotguns than it is to be outside with scopes.

[stark fulcrum]

I still enjoy killing the scope rat who runs after each shot a mile away more than just fraggin shotgunners 😆

They always in the corner lol

[hardy coral]

I feel scopes got nerfed pretty hard by the movement penalty. They are really only good for camping now, sadly.

Deadeye scopes are pretty trash and wouldn't be problematic even with full move speed.

It was basically just a massive nerf hammer back then because the lebel marksman was OP.

As of now you could give all deadeyes full move sped and then individually touch the rest of the scoped weapons.

[gentle willow]

@warm dragon Adding a dark mode flash option would be cool as well

[valid nova]

can you not hold melee anymore? im holding melee button and it just releases after like 4 seconds

[warm dragon]

It wouldn't solve the gameplay issues with the Flash but would at least save your retinas

[gentle willow]

yeah just as an additional QOL fix

[unborn dagger]

A darkbomb instead of flashbomb

[alpine dock]

Make it so we can select contracts so sick of fog rain and night over and over and over and over again.

Keep the gator in rotation for all weather and maps but just stop with the crappy weather spam if we are going to have like 7 different weather conditions you need to be able to select

[lavish thunder]

amen, i m sick of this crap change they did. I actually play way less now just because of that. can never get a day map hardly now. bs

[lavish thunder]

when we had last event , inferno maps, that was well balanced. we never had fire maps one after the other. i dunno wtf happened here.

[tight delta]

What are you talking about, during the inferno event, we had days with 100% chance of having the inferno weather.

I agree all the same that it would be better if we could choose not to have the same weather all the time.

[late quartz]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the past the issue with having set contracts was that they divided the player base too much and lead to long queue times and worse matchmaking.

Would people play a preset day-only contract if it had dramatically reduced bounty rewards, say 20~30% of the normal random contract?

[flat sandal]

Pretty sure nothing will change there till the end if the event. Devs are collecting data. Just grin and bare it and think of England:D

[flat sandal]

Think that's true. It is a trade off. It seems surprising given the amount of players

Anyone here know what the "nightmare mode" Was. Apparently it was under consideration but isn't being developed. Just asking as I was thinking about suggesting a Mode/special condition I which pve is much tougher so everyone has to basically navigate their way through the pve goo effectively so that teams can feel like some sneaky special ops team, managing resources, just making more decisions... You get the gists^^ was it that?

[queen jungle]

@lone pier can I ask - why downvote?

how is it not suitable for you can you tell me?

[tribal wyvern]

Should also check the comment i actually replied to in Feedback.
He was just straight up throwing the blame on the bounty team, so i flipped it back at him.

But ye it's up to all teams involved.

[little jackal]

The majority of lair campers wait for 44 minutes and then still try to make a run for it. Why wasting everyone's time? Waiting for a favor? Thing is, outside campers are following their winning strategy. Inside campers are not.

bounty should absolutely have an effect on its carrier to make them move. Charcoal, poisoning, losing its value, whatever. If you're not willing to make play, just stay the fuck away in the forest, shotgun or not

[tribal wyvern]

An argument can be made that you're wasting the bountys team not going inside.
Can you give one reason why a shotgun team with pistols should push out to mosins, sparks, krags, vetterlis etc ?

Why they should take that fight

[little jackal]

Idk, they almost always do. But waste everyone's time before eventually doing that.

[tribal wyvern]

I mean at some point they don't have a choice besides dying in the lair.
But you have every moment to extract yourself at any point. Nothing stops you.

Besides if this happens to you frequently, then bring tools/Consums to deal with it. Fake nades, choke bomb certain locations to make it easier to get in.

[little jackal]

I'm a cqc hunter myself

And whenever I get the bounty, match ends in 5 minutes

[tribal wyvern]

Well theres no rule that the match has to be ended quickly. It's 45mins & was shortened.

[rotund obsidian]

I dont think shotgun camping is an issue, I think shotgun camping with a shitload of concertina is annoying tho

but that's like, a whole separate thing with compound design and the interactions of concertina

[unborn smelt]

They've done a lot to make dealing with convertina far easier tho.

You can melee it with rending, blow it up with explosives ( made explosives far more common to restock, through toolboxes and worldspawns too), you can even shoot it with long or fmj

[flat sandal]

Sry different topic, I never really noticed this. I can't loot toolboxes when I have 4 consumables right? It doesn't matter if I am down some replenishable Tools, correct? Actually not sure rn. If so, why?

[unborn smelt]

You should be able to

If not thats bugged

To my knowlege

[rotund obsidian]

i feel like explosives honestly do a kinda poor job at dealing with concertina (at least, single dynamite sticks)

beetle is good but like, i dont run it particularly often

i love my concertina bombs, and i take one 99% of the time, but certain compounds are just HELL if the enemy runs more than like 2 conc bombs

pearl plantation

[open carbon]

#game-ideas message does anyone else have the impression the stamina system was kind of misunderstood here, or is it just me? I'm feel like I'm not good with explaining it but maybe explaining how the stamina pools work and depend on each other might be helpful

[hardy coral]

Running stam I'm pretty sure regenerates even when you're using melee stamina but not the other way around.

[rotund obsidian]

i think running stam regen is interrupted by melee stamina usage but its like, basically irrelevant

Sprinting and melee attacks consume independent stamina resources, allowing you to run to an enemy and still be able to attack him. While one resource is in use, the other cannot regenerate.

loading screen tips aren't always accurate tbf

[open carbon]

Ok so here's how I understand it: Sprint and Melee are sperate pools, though neither regenerates if either is in use. The lung symbol just shows the sprint stamina being empty and it not immediately going away when stopping is due to the delay before the regeneration sets in. This delay is shortened if you have Determination.
So yeah, if you sprint or jump etc, it'll stop regenerating melee stamina, and the other way around applies too. Only exception is vaulting, which does not use stamina and doesn't stop regeneration.

@subtle dust thought I should ping you :D It's your suggestion after all

[rotund obsidian]

I think the lung icon only shows up when you're actually at 0 running stamina, and the delay before it starts regenerating is the same as for melee stamina

[open carbon]

Aye

Doesn't mean it's low or anything, but actually empty

[little carbon]

Sprint stamina isnt influenced by determination. Thats for melee stamina. Greyhound affects sprint stamina

Otherwise its correct

[open carbon]

Determination affects when stamina regen starts, regardless of melee or sprint

I THINK

Hold on ^^

Yeah Wiki say so too

[little carbon]

Time to test

[open carbon]

I'm sure it works, I've felt it's effect a lot before I switched to main Conduit

[little carbon]

It does. Seems to be around 50% faster give or take.
Thats kind of funny. When i was introduced to the game i was told it was only for melee and it took over 2000 hrs to come up.
Kind of shows how good stamina shots are.

Well, less so now, cause of conduit

[open carbon]

Yeah although Conduit is still not 100% reliable throughout a match, depending on how many clues you get before the banish happens.. I always bring a stam shot as backup

[karmic ivy]

That would not be as much fun as the way it works right now. I don't personally like the game to put me in a rush. That is what the other players are for.

[late quartz]

I did read it. I agree that it's not the best take but at the same time the issue is obviously close to many people's heart in this community.

There are more reasonable measured forms of these discussions happening all around, it makes more sense to cut past the low hanging fruit and try to get something constructive out. That's how I feel anyway.

[vital fractal]

Tbf going for a bounty is always a display of greed and “who wants it more” which is very fair knowing the lore of the game where hunters will easily backstab others for a chance at the glory. Personally, it’s fair when rifles sit outside the lair and shotguns inside with a layer of concertina between them because those outside can choose to leave if they decide. You can’t be mad at another team for “wasting time” when you (team outside) makes a conscious decision to stay. Yes the objective is extract with the bounty, but you have to ask yourself- is it worth waiting for? If the answer is no, then either push or leave.

For the team inside, yes they have a defensive advantage but at the end of the day is it worth dying to deny everyone a bounty or to try and push out?

Everyone has a different answer to those questions, which also differ in the situation.

At the end of the day, lair camping and anti-lair camping are conscious decisions. Why take this decision away from a player?

[hardy coral]

There should be more tools to flush people out with but it will always remain a player issue.

If the team inside wants to camp they will do it even it's the least fun and engaging strat.

Their loss, just leave if they are doing it.

[azure elm]

It’s an inconvenience. Oh great, another team who doesn’t want to fight. They sit at either a long distance and run away when a team makes a push, or sit inside asses planted. It’s not about taking those decisions away, but there should be more thought given to make it so people move and engage. It is a pvp game after all. Of course there’s situations like down on ammo, no resupplies nearby or down on health bars etc that make these situations understandable. But when it’s happening so often. Every other game or more, something should be adjusted.

[hardy coral]

The defensive team IMO is always the one that has the initiative and so should act on it, not all exits can be held at once and even if so then you can 3v1 someone and you always have the element of surprise, you know when a team is coming in as a defender.

[little carbon]

There need to be better ways to push out of a lair that can't be held from long range. In turn lairs should also get more weak spots from within compound distance. This makes it so that you have to enter the compound it you want to stop the bounty from escaping, but in turn gets them to also push out into the compound because the lair isn't the superior position anymore. Both teams have to hold ground in the compound if they want to win

[hardy coral]

It's your fault if you take a loadout that doesn't allow you to push out.

There's few compounds where "pushing out" is a death sentence and this holds for any large distance and you still need to EXTRACT

[carmine needle]

Eh, there are times its good to push, and times it's good to see what the other team(s) will do, from both sides- as bounty holders and as the team late to the party. What compounds are impossible to push out of?

[vital fractal]

That’s the best part though. You make a loadout and play to make the game as inconvenient for others as possible so you can complete your goals. It is a PvP game, and should be played as such. Hence, why should one team play in a manner that benefits the other? Again, the whole motif of hunters going for bounty is based on greed and pride. Sometimes the right thing to do is let go of one’s pride and just move on. Or, accept your greed and accept the consequences- whether it be a crushing death or an amazing clutch- and you can decide whether that happens 1 minute from the decision at the lair or 44 minutes later.

[little carbon]

Basically punishing both retreating-style playstyles:

• people barricading themselves with close range weapons.
• rifles continuously falling back

[little carbon]

That's where map design comes in and forces you to leave your comfort zone if you want to win

[carmine needle]

Both of these play to the weapons brought tho. If I bring a shotty, I'm not going to chase a rifle down across a field. I'm gonna make him come to me. As a rifleman, I'm not going to barge into a shotgun lair, or try to get super close until I know it's smart to do so.

[hardy coral]

And also part of it is players building bad loadouts that aren't flexible. You can make loadouts that are almost equally effective at a distance and up close, that let you hold and let you push.

[little carbon]

That's why the compound is the best solution. Force both parties info the compound. You aren't in direct shotgun range but can reasonably be pushed

[carmine needle]

How would you force it?

[hardy coral]

Long ammo rifle+Uppercut since quickswitch has been a bad loadout and people running that complaining about shotguns had no right. Thankfully ammo changes have incentivised people to try more synergetic weapons.

[vital fractal]

Indeed it does, as I said- you give into your greed and push in with a rifle or you push out with a shotgun. Both are disadvantageous but have a hefty reward on the line.

[carmine needle]

I shouldn't be forced to play a specific loadout tho. There's no right way to play- every loadout can be viable in the right hands and conditions.

[azure elm]

But it’s not usually just 3v3. Lots of the time IME it’s multi teams showing up to boss and the majority have rifles and they all hold angles on the boss layer even though they are 20 meters away from the other team. No one wants to fight, people just want to hold angles. When a fight is attempted rifles run. When a fight is attempted shotguns trap. This stalemate is what I think needs to be addressed. I don’t know how, but it should be addressed. The ammo nerf helped in making people less likely to not push cuz they will run out of ammo sooner, and then have to push or leave, but i don’t think it was quite enough to fix these stalemate situations.

[little carbon]

Simple. Have the compound be the strongest position.
The lair needs weak points that can be accessed from the compound but not from the wilderness, making sitting in the lair disadvantageous against a team in compound.
Same with the wilderness. Give good ways to leave compounds, so that a team just hanging back in the wilderness can't stop the bounty from just walking away.

[carmine needle]

what lairs dont have weakpoints tho?

The devs have been adding places to get into the lairs with nearly every update recently

[azure elm]

But wouldn’t this require major map overhaul? I love the idea of making the compound the strong point and some are. But it’s not the case for the majority of compounds. It’s too so easy for long ammo to ass plant and hold angles and force stalemates.

[little carbon]

It's not that they don't have weak points, it's that they on average are still stronger than the compound "ring".
Ideally the bounty team wouldnt even sit in the lair but be trying to hold some space in the compound ring

[carmine needle]

then you just have the same isse... but in a different buildign

i don't understand

[little carbon]

Most likely not. The basic infrastructure doesn't need to change. Hunts compounds already follow the three ring architecture.

[azure elm]

That’s fair.

[little carbon]

No, cause in the ring you can design each position in a way where it's strong against one other but weak against some others.
In the lair you basically don't have to worry about your "back". Outside you should have to.
So you basically have to manage the location of the other team within the compound to adjust your plays so they don't blindside or pincer you.

It becomes a game of whoever does the smarter plays and rotations faster wins

Take fort Bolden for example. Almost a perfect example for this architecture, except that the lair is still the strongest position. But the compound "ring" is well designed

[carmine needle]

Still not understanding. There are weak points in the lairs- as the bounty team, I AM worried about my back- there are multiple places a team can breach, and if they breach before I have the bounty, I might not even know they are there. I ask again, what locations/lairs don't have some kind of weakpoint?

[azure elm]

60% of the time you’re facing long ammo who doesn’t push so why would you watch your back? 🫠

[carmine needle]

All lairs I can think of right now have multiple breach points, from windows, to doors, to underground, to going up and out. Couple with throwables- with the tool boxes, it's even easier to flush out lair teams, or force them back so you can go in.

[unborn smelt]

I think the issue is people won't kill bosses that aren't inside areas where you have to watch your back while distracted fighting the Boss

[little carbon]

Breaching a compound is always an uphill battle. It is the stronger position. And most "weak points" aren't really weak points but just entries.

In simple terms, you can't rotate in a way that turns the lair into a very weak position, which you can do with most positions inside any given compound ring.

So in the ring you can force a team to move or loose by rotating smartly

[unborn smelt]

I'd have to massively disagree with that tho... What's strong and what isn't depends a lot on your loadout

If you push a lair with a shotgun and smth like a flash - you potentially are in a really strong position

[little carbon]

That's why the lair should be strong against the wilderness, so you have enough time to react and change into a different position if another team arrives

[unborn smelt]

If you try pushing with a Sparks sniper - well you're not for obvious reasons

[carmine needle]

Yeah. Exactly. And the same thing for the bounty team facing down a rifle team- there are tons of ways out of a compound- If they want to sit back and wait, I simply go out the other side and leave before they even know.

[little carbon]

That's not how you define the strength of a position. Take your example of a shotgun pushing a rifle. Simulate that push under a lot of different positions of Semi-Close distance and then take the average winning chance of the rifler. You'll find the lair having significantly better results

Than for example a same distance push in the wilderness.

[unborn smelt]

A lair is nice and "secure" while you're inside with a CQC weapon. But pushing out is a disadvantageous move - if there's already someone else in the compound, because you need to push through predefined chokepoints, becuse you're likely to get hit and be down some meds or even die trying. While holding an angle from the outside is advantageous because the amount of angles you can choose from are near endless, and the angles the inside can peek are very limited

[unborn smelt]

I don#t think i understand...

The lair is a bad spot for the rifleman if pushed by a shoty

it's good for a shoty if pushed by a rifle

like rifle vs rifle - i'd always prefer the outside of the lair, because you usually have more ressources, more and better angles and more space to stay on the move.
Shotgun vs shotgun i'd always prefer the lair position, because you got your back secured and are within your weapons ideal range.
Rifle vs shotgun - i'd always prefer pushing the position where my gun is better (so with a shoty push in with a rifle push out)

[azure elm]

That’s the issue. They can be literally anywhere watching multiple doors/windows/entries, and create a stalemate. People generally aren’t stupid enough to just run out while being watched by a team of long ammo. Long ammo is viable of course and playing from a distance is a thing, no one is debating any of that. But that’s like 75% of games right now. Stalemates. No one moving cuz one team has the current “advantage” (because boutny can’t hit you because if they peek they die) and long ammo doesn’t want to move from that position. And won’t for for as long as they can. The other team knows this, and they don’t move, cuz who wants to just run out and die? Now we wait for 34 minutes and see who gets impatient first.

Boooorrrrriinngg.

[late quartz]

Ultimately, I don't think the game's pace should be defined by whether or not bounty is being held hostage by somebody who picked an inflexible loadout.

Core to Hunt's design is that picking up bounty is a risk/reward situation. You have a target on your back, but you're given wallhacks and some control over the pact of engagements. If you pick up bounty, it's a choice you made, you had the opportunity to assess the risks and weigh the benefits.
NOT having bounty isn't usually a choice or a skill issue, if you spawn on the wrong half of the map, you didn't get outskilled by the team who spawned right at the boss lair. The whole point of having an objective in this game is to spark fun engaging PvP encounters. If the Bounty is failing to achieve that goal by incentivizing unhealthy or detrimental playstlye loops, the bounty should have its mechanics adjusted to prevent that.

This isn't about what loadout is good where or who should push, this is about making the core mechanic behind this game's objective improve the game's experience rather than harm it.
If you bring a loadout that fucking sucks past kissing distance, that's something you need to consider before taking bounty. If you can't reasonably extract because of choices you made, the bounty should move to another team to spark more engaging and interesting gameplay.

This isn't about which set of players is the villain, this is about how the game is failing to incentivize fun gameplay

The easiest way to affect this is to change the mechanics surrounding bounty and create incentives and risks that promote healthy playstyles

[carmine needle]

By doing what?

[late quartz]

Increase the risk of choosing to carry bounty, which bolsters the opportunity for other players to take it with tools like serpent

Don't let people hold the lobby hostage regardless of loadout

Shotgun, sniper, bomblance machette handcannon, doesn't matter

[carmine needle]

Increase the risk how? Cause right now, the risk is that I get shot by another team that also wants the bounty... which i think is a pretty good risk

[azure elm]

But it’s not necessarily bounty team holding the lobby hostage.

[late quartz]

It is, because they have the objective

If somebody else had bounty the fact they're in a building wouldn't matter

[azure elm]

Right, they have objective. Other team’s new objective is to take that objective. Not lock it in the boss layer.

[unborn smelt]

I can't agree with that personally.

Because if taking bounty outs a lot of pressure to act on you - people won't stop camping, they just camp at a diffrent stage in the game - from the past experiences, it's the stage before starting to kill the boss

[late quartz]

Sure, that's a concern too. There are mechanics that make that less appealing, namely the fact that you can't AFK in boss lair with a living boss.

[unborn smelt]

also you can just flip it and put the pressure to act on those outside, like the wellspring does for example

[late quartz]

Sure, I have no issue with that, but some sort of systems change needs to happen to break gridlock

It needs to happen around the bounty because that's the game's objective

[hallow pasture]

Give bounty holders one small extra hp bar? so when they exit the lair their not guaranteed offed withing a second?

there's your pace.

people would actually exit the damn lair

[azure elm]

Not a bad idea honestly.

[late quartz]

If the game's objective, who's sole goal is to spark PvP, isn't meeting its design goals then it should be adjusted

[azure elm]

A temporary bar?

[hallow pasture]

sure, if you lose it, it won't come back nor heal back by any means

[azure elm]

I like that idea.

[unborn smelt]

I don't think they would... If past experiences tell us anything people won't take more risks if they get an advantage

[late quartz]

^

[azure elm]

That’s also true. Hence the stalemates.

[hallow pasture]

ok ok....

[unborn smelt]

otherwise long ammo users would push far more frequently after a pickoff for example

[hallow pasture]

hp bar and a penalty at the same time

if you don't exit after picking up you'll start taking dmg

you'll run out of hp and heals eventually

so.. you'll exit

[azure elm]

Like a temp health bar. If they aren’t killed in time to lose that temp bar they keep it for the rest of the game or until killed.

[unborn smelt]

So noone would pick up anymore...

[hallow pasture]

have 1 hp bar more

[unborn smelt]

you'll just get onetapped trying to leave

[hallow pasture]

nono, this prevents the endless campingfest

[late quartz]

If you have bounty and don't move out of a location for a certain amount of time it'll jump to a random location within 100 meters

[hallow pasture]

whether it's from the bounty or other team starting to camp

[late quartz]

Now everybody has a reason to move

[hallow pasture]

people have to move.

[azure elm]

Maybe being able to drop a bounty token might be beneficial.

Then you can move again without lightening shooting from your skull.

[unborn smelt]

No they don't - they'd just not kill the boss until they're sure everyone's dead

Had that happen in EA quite a lot

[hallow pasture]

which you'll never be

[unborn smelt]

was the reason they added DSB to beginn with

[late quartz]

If you're not in the boss lair proper it's harder to establish a position that prevents other players from making a move

And you can't just AFK in there with a living boss

You and your teammates need to be spread out more, take more risks and hold weaker positions

[unborn smelt]

i think that's debatable... people have been camping outside the lairs for ages too

[late quartz]

Sure but logistically it's a harder task

You stack up on one side of a compound you're open to flanks, spread out and each player is more likely to be overwhelmed

Being in a building all together with opportunities to set up a killing floor is stronger and easier

[unborn smelt]

or you don't show yourself until the others are killing the boss and you kill them with their pants down

which is what happened in the past usually

[hallow pasture]

Oh, I generally still do

[late quartz]

We know there's a risk of players being near a boss, the game tells us. At least in this situation there are fights happening LOL

I'd rather have people camping boss and actually getting into gun fights than people post-banish just sitting around

[unborn smelt]

we've been through basically all the scenarios in hunts past already

[late quartz]

Because if I'm in boss lair and you push, you're still taking more risks and creating more opportunities for interesting gameplay

There's a reason this isn't the default strategy anymore, there's a reason clues glow red, the boss icon tells you if players are nearby, a reason we get darksight boost

They've all culminated in these types of camping being less effective than hoarding bounty post banish

[tight delta]

Explosive ammo could have been the anti-compoundcamp ammo to address many of the issues of siegeing hard campers. Too bad it was overnerfed into the ground.

[unborn smelt]

bosses hard and little downside to pick up -> people don't kill it
added DSB -> people rushed it and were super advantaged with DSB -> DSB got nerfed People didn't kill it anymore
boss whispers to prevent boss camping -> didn't help because people knew campers were close by and thus camped too trying to outcamp the campers...

[hallow pasture]

For me the most effective way to get rid of a team, I generally succeed in, is just kill the boss 3/4th and go out of lair, let them off it and in the banish sound I rush in and pop them or blow them up.

[late quartz]

"""Camping""" will always be a problem in hunt, nothing will ever entirely eliminate the risk of players being overly cautious and slowing down the pace of the game past a point of reason

It's like addressing cheating or toxic communications in games; no solution fixes it entirely, it's always going to be a gradual process of improvement

[unborn smelt]

I personally think overdoing the tries to fixing it just takes away from the experience at some point tho.

[late quartz]

"We used to have camping" isn't a good reason not to address the current most egregiously harmful manifestation of this behavior

Do you think DSB, clues glowing red, boss whispers, stalker beetles etc have taken away from the experience?

I certainly don't lol

(beetles are a huge addition that make camping boss compound outside its lair less problematic, btw)

[unborn smelt]

The issue i see is people refuse to use the plethora of tools they are presented with and expect gamedesign to just hand them the win for camping the other side.

on both sides that happens

[late quartz]

These tools almost always create more risk for you than simply going AFK, or they're extremely finite like consumables.

It's not more advantageous to try to sneak out the back as a player in boss lair, it's not more advantageous to get out of DSB range as a sniper and hope the other team uses that opportunity. You're always going against your own incentive to take action, so the game needs to counterbalance those existing incentives with new incentives

It needs to be more appealing to take risk than it is to play safe

Right now it's really not

[unborn smelt]

well yes and no.

there is a fine gradient of where taking the risk is worth the effort and that scales with the personal skills

[late quartz]

It's not like nobody ever tries to push into a shotgun nest, it's not like nobody ever tries to walk out of boss lair when other teams are holding angles. People do this shit because people get bored.

People do it, and it often doesn't play out for them because they're choosing to value their time and enjoyment over maximizing their advantages.

[unborn smelt]

if you make risk taking more appealing for the lowest end of players - it's basically gifting free wins to top tier players

[late quartz]

Luckily we try not to let the top tier of players play against the lowest tier of players

[unborn smelt]

because how much you're capable of doing with any given advantage is very dependant on your skillset (not just skill - but also which skills you excel at)

[late quartz]

If we throw "matchmaking bad" into the mix nothing is ever balanced

We have to assume matches are at least somewhat reasonably made

[unborn smelt]

It's not about matchmaking bad.

I personally and my group of regulars have absolutely no issues with camping in the slightest, because we excel at skills that scale well with the current benefits for being an active player

yet there's still people that don#t feel comfortable with the advantages the active role provides rn

[late quartz]

I mean that's good but there's clearly a systemic imbalance that affects a significant portion of players

I don't think this is a skill issue, I think this is an incentives issue

[unborn smelt]

Now i also suck as a camper or passive player - iu'm not straight better than others

i just did my best to capitalize on a very aggressive playstyle

to the point im better with a melee weapon in 5* and 6* than with a lower end rifle

So i personally feel like pushing in is already easy enough

[late quartz]

You may just be better than you think you are at this lol

[unborn smelt]

And that's where i don't agree. It's not am imbalance

[vital fractal]

You as a player may try, Crytek on the other hand….

[unborn smelt]

the inside isn't the straight up better position

[late quartz]

Certainly, I don't think pushing compounds is impossible, but it's undeniable that this game creates situations where both teams need to assume a great deal of personal risk to dislodge a gridlock and the game empowers both sides towards inaction rather than action

You are in a better position if you wait until the other player exposes themselves. You can be aggressive, and it can work out, but it's not optimal

[unborn smelt]

basically doing the active part, is the disadvantaged play for most people, i feel

so the solution IMO can't be forcing either side to do smth - because you just create the imbalance to beginn with

[late quartz]

Yes, bounty is meant to be an asymmetrical risk/reward mechanic. It's not meant to be 100% balanced, it's meant to create an asymmetrical set of benefits and drawbacks that encourage good gameplay

[hallow pasture]

I'm more of a passive aggressive player, whenever I snipe, I keep moving around, let them search in the wrong direction.
Or with regular guns, I try to get up close if possible and let them give chace, I'll have a building full trapped somewhere.
Then the other, most favourite way, actively bomb the shit out of people who take cover in a building or whatever gives cover atm. take bow and grenade arrows, 1 or 2 ammo crates and bomb the shit out of them while pushing.

[unborn smelt]

currently taking either side is stronger than pushing either side (in general - exception being pushing in if you have a shotty and know they have a rifle for example)

[hallow pasture]

I don't really see a reason why there must be so many camping.

Just get a damn move on.

[unborn smelt]

so if you force the inside to make a play - you just push the imbalance to outside being the straight up stronger position - while forcing outside to make a play does make the inside the far stronger position

[vital fractal]

Some people like playing to their advantage rather than immediately fighting. The whole conversation essentially so far.

[unborn smelt]

there's only one reason really individual pride/spite.

[little carbon]

Thats again why the best option is to force both teams into the compound

[vital fractal]

Literally my point lol

Very fitting to the lore

[unborn smelt]

You go to the objective and neither side camps

[late quartz]

Creating a little bit of imbalance at the micro can lead to more balance on the macro.

PvE is not a balanced PvP mechanic, spawning on boss lair is not a balanced PvP mechanic, but we don't dislike these things because they create interesting gameplay on the macro.

Not taking bounty has always been a legitimate option in Hunt, there are numerous reasons why you'd want to avoid banishing first, or avoid picking up bounty right away.
If you choose to pick up bounty, one of those risks being "I can't camp forever" isn't going to make the game unbalanced on the macro, it'll simply create a new tree of incentives and decision making.

[little carbon]

The best option is to create a gameplay loop in which a team that is playing stationary or is carving to pressure and falling back repeatedly, is seriously disadvantaged

[unborn smelt]

neither side wants to make a moove usually so a few min go by. you invest some more minutes, and before you realize you invested so much time camping you don't feel like mooving on and letting them have the bounty is what they cdeserve so you camp more (or the opposite if you're inside - rewarding the outside camnpers with free bounty) and then you're comitted to drag it out longer

[little carbon]

The issue is Hunt is a competitive game. People, at least people who want to become better at the game, are always going to try to make optimal plays.
Therefore you have to make sure that the optimal plays are the ones that advance the game state

[late quartz]

100% agree

literally spot on

Game design isn't about blaming individual players for bad gameplay, it's about creating systems that encourage players to make decisions that improve the experience

[unborn smelt]

it can - but i've yet to see that succeed for the "lair camping" issue

[late quartz]

But you'd agree that past solutions have improved the experience gradually, no?

[unborn smelt]

we wen't back and forth multiple times between inside and outside being advantageous and it never satisfied the comunity

[late quartz]

But, still, would you agree that the game is better for the past changes?

Would we be in a better alternative timeline if we never got boss whispers, DSB, clue glow etc.

[unborn smelt]

yes and no. the game lost lots of the grounded feeling i loved in the beginning in favor of arcadish run and gun.

it IMO traded one satisfaction for another

[hallow pasture]

clue glow is too far radius imo

[late quartz]

I'm really not sure people sitting in one spot for 20+ minutes is satisfying to many players... grounded as it may be... I don't think hunt needs to add a shitbucket tool for when your hunter drank some bad lake water and you've been camping too long to hold it

I'd rather stay on a path of progress than throw our hands up and shout "WE HAVEN'T FIXED IT YET SO WHY BOTHER"

[hallow pasture]

I'm down with a shitbucket tool, if it makes you lose a couple of kg's and run faster

[unborn smelt]

From my experience that is very rare currently. So i'd say it's in large fixed

[little carbon]

I wouldnt say arcadish. Rather they refined the competitive elements. More arcadish would mean that skill started mattering less, which would be the opposite of what happened.
Granted this is a bit nitpicky, cause these terms are more stricly defined when talking gamedev than they are for the average user

[late quartz]

Well, I'm happy it doesn't affect your experience, but it does seem to be a problem that a large portion of the community is passionate about and very invested in

I don't think this happens the majority of the time, but it does happen though to be problematic

[unborn smelt]

Arcadeish doesn't mean skill matters less - arcadish IMO refers to being less about tactics planning and slow deliberate plays, and more about fast flashy plays

[crimson mirage]

PLEASE REMOVE RAIN

i cant play 3-4 games in a row my ears

its too hard to concentrate many games with this SHITTY rain.

[hallow pasture]

https://tenor.com/view/not-again-this-shit-again-here-we-go-again-cmon-this-again-gif-21601757

[unborn smelt]

changes that made the game moove away from grounded gameplay to arcadish IMO were changes like giving far more informations out for free (not necesserily bad), reduction of diffrent sway for diffrent ammo types and reduced sway as a whole for example

[hardy coral]

Reduced sway is good tbh, sway should make you aim better, it should not necessarily have you stand still or rely on scopes.

[unborn smelt]

Not all was better back then ofc. Some of the best changes IMO were stuff like people being able to see more than one clue, DSB, Boss whispers, removal of QS and addition of inertia

[late quartz]

Ayo bring back QS

[hardy coral]

You still switch quite fast.

[little carbon]

The only skill that has matter in most arcade shooters, if we go by gamedev convention, is mechanical skill (aim). And even that is often reduced by them having more spread-driven shooting mechanics.
But arcadish games are, by definition, low on intellectual skill.
Which Hunt didnt remove or lower

[hardy coral]

You fire a shot with your pistol faster than you cycle lebel or mosin.

Double uppercut quickswitch is viable with how those guns are actually broken.

[unborn smelt]

Can you show a reliable source for that definition - because i'm absolutely not inclined to believe that definition at all

[knotty ore]

Weather types should always be garnish and not the main meat. Playing rain all the time is exhausting.

[late quartz]

I think the argument is generally that the more players can rely on their mechanical skill, the wider that skill gap becomes, the more likely you are to see players circumvent strategy in favor of brute force

[knotty ore]

Haven't logged in after completing the event because I'm waiting for devs to change how often we play rain

[hardy coral]

Didn't they say rain would be optional then they lump it in?

Also why did they keep garbage serpent moon around and just dissapear inferno.

[desert sundial]

I'm bored of rain and fog.

[knotty ore]

I hope I can perma-ignore it eventually because its awful.

[late quartz]

I like rain because it has significant, dynamic gameplay impacts that encourage periods of aggression and periods of passivity.
I like that it actually affects gameplay rather than just being like... window dressing nonsense.

[crimson mirage]

fog is okay

[late quartz]

Being blinded by golden if you look in a certain direction is way less interesting

[crimson mirage]

but he loud sound of rain is so annoying i am fast exhausted

[hardy coral]

The heavy rain should be built up to, it should last a shorter time, and it should have more effects.

Right now I feel it's just annoying because it doesn't actually effect fire or fuses.

[desert sundial]

Fuck it, add wind as well.

[knotty ore]

Why even have state of the art audio in a game where its not even being used all I hear is Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh all game

Peak gameplay

[hardy coral]

Grenades are STRONGER in the rain because they are much harder to hear. Their fuses shouldn't stay lit.

[late quartz]

Okay, what's preferrable

Removing rain or tweaking its balance and sound design

[desert sundial]

Add wind, blows out the fuse on nades and stops bodies burning in the open very pog yes

[knotty ore]

Split contracts like before

Let the community decide

[hardy coral]

Tweaking rain because it is interesting. I hope inferno returns also since it made the game more fun imo.

[knotty ore]

If they dodge shit maps maybe don't make shit maps

[hardy coral]

The light rain is a good mixup, it is at that point mostly dressing but it has DIFFERENT visiblity, not poorer visbility.

Like dusk too, different visibility not just poorer visibility.

If the heavy rain was more predictable and more impactful but lasted a short time it'd be great for pushing people into making particular plays.

Instead of now where they just slug it out regardless if it's heavy or light.

[late quartz]

It seems like most people find it TOO impactful right now. I worry that disabling most common throwables would be more divisive than anything

[hardy coral]

It'd be better since it's actually just confusing.

Some stuff works, some doesn't.

The only impactful thing to players really is that they can't set player bodies alight with lanterns.

[knotty ore]

People are so afraid of long ammo its really funny. Instead of praising bad map design because it eliminates half the weapon pool, maybe get a little better game.

[late quartz]

🤔

[hardy coral]

Barrels rarely come into gameplay and them not working in rain is more a gimmick than a gameplay change.

[unborn smelt]

I don't think it's bad map design

[granite sand]

Get a spear and you will see how effective they are

[unborn smelt]

tha reason long ammo is so dominant is - because it's meant to be the best, hence it costs the most, and because of the way healthbars work

[hardy coral]

Well, the long ammo bolties.

Nobody is complaining about the sparks or martini really, even the ironside.

[unborn smelt]

if a rifle player looses 25 HP against a hotgun - it doesn#t matter in the grand sceme of things

[hardy coral]

It's that the guns, especially in the past with ammo pickup and stacking, had too much versatility and sustain.

[unborn smelt]

the shotgun may be able to onetap at 17 instead of 13m now

[knotty ore]

Best weapons are whatever you can hit your shots with. I think Carbine is better than mosin right now within most engagement ranges.

[unborn smelt]

if a shotgun player looses 25 - they loose the advantage of being able to OHK a rifle up close because the rifle can now do the same

but not just up close, a long ammo rifle can OHK up to~45m then

[hardy coral]

I feel the bolties now are a lot more balanced but their damage should certainly be reigned in a little.

[unborn smelt]

basically tripling the OHK range of a shotgun

[granite sand]

To be honest if you are playing a vetterli then just play like that. You need to overcome differancies. At some range depending on your playstyle there is no differance between a vetterli and mosin if you are not using penetration.

[unborn smelt]

I think this is the origin of the popularity of long ammo - and why despite buffs to almost all other ammotypes and some nerfs to some long ammo nerfs it's still king by a long shot

[granite sand]

I think carbine is really op right now

[hardy coral]

Carbine was overbuffed.

[hardy coral]

I wouldn't say longshot but the lebel and mosin certainly can be unfun guns.

The sparks isn't OP, the Martini isn't OP. Don't obfuscate the issue by talking about "long ammo"

[knotty ore]

Its not carbine itself its the range you get with high velocity and the fact that you only get like 2 bullets with long ammo.

[hardy coral]

Taking special on medium or compact without an ammo box is basically giving yourself long ammo pickup.

[unborn smelt]

I don't think long ammo is OP. It's just advantaged by the games core design

[knotty ore]

Carbine is a superior weapon in most cases unless you are trying to get a sneaky headshot from far away

[unborn smelt]

the tracking bosses and traveling part happens in long ammo ranges, the leaving withbounty part does, and the HP bar system is massively in favor of long ammo rifles

[granite sand]

My motto is easy. If I don't carry a mosin lebel or berther, I don't try too hard on long or mid range fights.

You need to adapt to your gun, your gun will not adapt to you.

[knotty ore]

Right now travelling is completely safe, running away is completely safe. No one can see or hear shit.

[late quartz]

The HP system still matters on rain maps

[unborn smelt]

Absolutely - but that doesn't change that at it's core long ammo is in an advantageous position due to gamedesign choices

[hardy coral]

Remedy has to stay as a trait in some form.

The game is so much better with it.

[unborn smelt]

That doesn#t make running completely safe...

[hardy coral]

You can still see at normal distances, if not further, in light rain.

[granite sand]

People forgot that shorter ammo guns usually have a higher dps and sometimes that makes it more favorable to have them.

[unborn smelt]

you can still see far enough to shoot someone in the back and you can still hear others just fine with a pair opf headphones

[late quartz]

Long ammo has a lot of advantage, but I also think many of the compact and medium ammo weapons carry similarly powerful advantages (typically higher rate of fire)

I think people just feel more hopeless if they're in a situation that favors long ammo and they aren't carrying it themselves

[granite sand]

For example with a mosin if I get a body even with a 10m they still need to double shot me

[hardy coral]

Keeping and making distance is easier than taking ground. Which is why Mosin/Lebel/Berty are so consistently strong.

[unborn smelt]

I'd disagree with "similarly powerful advantages"

[granite sand]

And with a nagant officer I can get that 2 shot faster than you.

[unborn smelt]

while we assume everayone is at 150 HP yes - the balance works just fine

[knotty ore]

If you can hear anything during heavy rain you are cheating because I have a very good audio setup and people have literally rotated into me and we didn't see/hear each other until our nipples touched.

[unborn smelt]

but a core design choice is that death and fire reduce the HP maximum

and due to long ammos very high base dmg it goes from two-hit kill to OHK

and no amount of RoF beats an OHK

[late quartz]

I think the advantages of having a fast firing weapon are often as powerful as being able to one tap a player after a revive, but I do think long ammo is more versatile in that it has a wider spread of advantages and are thus more flexible

I agree like... the spitfire is less flexible than a mosin

[knotty ore]

Yeah no, mostly everyone is rezzed with max HP. There are like 300 ways to get bars back now. Its not even close to effective anymore.

[hardy coral]

People poo poo the centennial yet they never use it. It's the fastest (consistently) firing rifle after Winnie but it has much more range than that gun.

[unborn smelt]

During the event - yes

[granite sand]

Even a vetterli fall you down when you lose a bar, that is not a long ammo issue tbh

[unborn smelt]

but i'm not talking about the event, i'm talking about the core game systems that aren't timed only

[hardy coral]

Vetterli can only do that to a respectible range with FMJ and at that point it has trash velocity.

[unborn smelt]

yes but only at half the range of long ammo

so it has the same ish benefit, just a bit weaker

and if people can pick the bigger advantage they usually do

[vital fractal]

Tbh vetterli is ridiculously overtuned imo with its variants and status

[knotty ore]

What

[hardy coral]

No, vetterli is actually bad...

It only has the 130 damage stat, otherwise it's a much worse cent.

[vital fractal]

You have a fast firing, high damage, silenced option that within a compound out does almost all other medium ammo options-

With no bullet grubber

[hardy coral]

It doesn't out-do the other options and no medium ammo weapon requires bullet grubber.

[granite sand]

Huh

Are you really going throw away dps like that lmao

[vital fractal]

Never said others require it, I’m saying it’s a strength on top of its other strengths- which is insane

[hardy coral]

The silenced vet is basically the only good variant at this point and it is a different playstyle than the other rifles.

[hot vigil]

I disagree, it have HV and great variants

[unborn smelt]

that's up to preferance i'd say

130 dmg vs 123 adds a good bit more reliability

[hardy coral]

HV that only brings it up to cent velocity? You have trash pickup and all the downsides of HV.

[hardy coral]

The 7 damage does matter but if you care for damage on a cheap repeating firearm use the ironside honestly.

[unborn smelt]

meh - i wouldn't use the Ironside in place of a vetterli

[vital fractal]

HV is an option to which extends its usuability, you can easily use it with fmj or incendiary for a better use within 20-30m compared to a cent which isn’t bad (not saying it is, just that the vetterli is better there)

[hot vigil]

Okay let us be clear, the Cents ms is an exception not the rule for medium ammo.
For ages (arguably still) the Vetterli had the mantra "Vetterli is Betterli" bc it shat on everything the Centennial tried to do,

[granite sand]

To be honest I would much prefer to play vetterli and double shot safely than a sparks 2 shot combo

[hardy coral]

It's not better at close range than the cent unless the enemy is already once downed and you hit them in the upper chest. The cent fires quite a bit faster.

[vital fractal]

Exactly, it also has a ridiculous level of versatility

[unborn smelt]

they buffed the cent out of that significantly tho

[hot vigil]

For sure.

[vital fractal]

That’s a big trade off

[hot vigil]

But yeah, Vetterli is in a fine spot, heck, you could even remove HV and it would be fine.

[hardy coral]

The buff wasn't that big (and it was half assed cus they didn't bring the hipfire in line) but it showed people that the gun was already decent and now had a solid fast firing niche.

[hardy coral]

Just use Cent, why bother with Vet HV?

[vital fractal]

Honestly if they removed the silenced variant it would be more in line with others- but even then I cannot believe it basically does Springfield levels of damage

[hardy coral]

The scopes are bad cus damage dropoff only makes headshots viable.

[unborn smelt]

It still fires slower than the vetterli tho

[hardy coral]

"springfield levels of damage" is still garbage with medium drop off.

[hardy coral]

It fires faster, the statcard is based on the hipfire.

[hot vigil]

Damage and the utility for popping chest shots at close range.

[hardy coral]

Cent is 1.22 seconds per shot with iron repeater, Vet is 1.28 Max but the iron sight only returns to centre after 1.57 seconds.

[vital fractal]

Is it when you use medium ammo where it’s supposed to be use essentially?

Sure out to 100m is pretty bad but you stay within 40-50 and you are doing some hardcore damage with the knowledge/comfort that with fmj you will basically always down a downed 1x hunter, or if you push a lair you’ll have the same comfort

[unborn smelt]

hipfire is max speed tho ?

[hardy coral]

You are not dealing hardcore damage at 40-50.

[hardy coral]

It's not, they didn't buff the hip fire speed for cent.

It is the old value.

[vital fractal]

With FMJ you are doing 130 dmg at 40m

Otherwise you are double tapping them cause they’ll be down nearly a 100+hp

And you’ll be sending lead down range pretty fast

[hardy coral]

Vet two tap is 66, with FMJ it's 86. Cent two tap is 63, with FMJ it is 84. The damage matters for the vet only for tapping a chest up close and that is the only real upside vs the cent.

The vet silenced is a different gun, it is played differently.

You do not compare the nagant with the nagant silenced.

Even tho nagant is total trash lol, you compare it to the conversion and it's eaten alive.

Same for vet vs cent.

[granite sand]

nagant trash?

[hardy coral]

The standard nagant is a useless weapon.

[hot vigil]

It does have an extra bullet for fanning if you want that.

[granite sand]

Oh yea standart nagant is trash

But silent is top tier imo

[hardy coral]

In exchange for much worse fanning than pax, scot or conversion.

If you want more bullets use lemat or even chain pistol.

Since their fanning is comparable to nagant.

[hot vigil]

Well, I tested that and honestly the difference ain't that big.

[unborn smelt]

I'm not so sure about that tbh.

I currently can only com pare the stat cards - and there the vetterli beats the Centy in any category other than MV

[hardy coral]

Numbers don't lie afaict.

[hardy coral]

Literally just use it in game, that's how I got my numbers,

Stopwatch from the first shot to last testing a couple times, no real error.

The cent fires faster.

[hot vigil]

Those numbers are just pixels messured on a screen, I went into shooting range and tested fanning with a Nagant and a Conversion exhaustivily.

[unborn smelt]

Hard to justify stopwatching a time with lots of potential errors vs using the stats provided by the developers

[hardy coral]

...

The stat card is wrong.

[hot vigil]

And it came out to be:
Nagant and Conversion are basically the shame within 10m.
If you go beyond 10m Conversion is more precise when tap-fanning.

[vital fractal]

Not from what I’ve been playing against, neither what I see too spectating when I’m downed

The vet is less a clear choice since the ammo changes yes, but if using within a standard compound lets be honest

Marksmen? Ok only really to be used with HV

Deadeye? Usable at all effective ranges

Silenced? Are you even kidding me, it’s by far the best silenced weapon in the game with the best sights for a silenced weapon in the game-

Bayonet - base + melee? Amazing

Vs a centennial where all you have is Muzzle Velocity, Capacity, and slight fire rate well… that’s really it- usually that’s not enough in a fight from my experience tbh

[hardy coral]

I tested it, how can there be an error when I am shooting as fast as I can?

I do it over and over, I get the same times I show for each gun.

[unborn smelt]

Could be - but i'm sure you can understand i can't exactly go by "trust me bro" either

[hardy coral]

Then test it yourself, doesn't take long.

[granite sand]

To be honest, I think you're drowning yourself in your stats. It's not all about stats. At the end of the day, you may have a very fast rate of fire, but in a trench warfare, you won't be able to fire every time you load your bullets. You can have very good damage, but sparks will also usually need 2 hits or a + pistol and guess what vetterli will too, unless you are in a very niche situation.

[unborn smelt]

who says your human timing lines up perfectly with the theoretical possibility (in CoD for example there was oversampling reducing RoF is you clicked faster than the possible RoF)

[hardy coral]

I did it multiple times both with spam clicking and timing it.

[unborn smelt]

who says there's no other issues like human error in stopping your timings

[hardy coral]

The cent is somewhat bugged where if you miss a perfect click it sort of jams up but it's fine with spam.

Vetterli is bugged in a different way, spam clicking queues up another shot while cycling the gun.

[unborn smelt]

Don't get me wrong i'm not saying you're definetly wrong and the stats are definetly right

[hardy coral]

Then it would be relatively equal between both guns?

[unborn smelt]

but saying "itested it" as a source is kind of unreliable with human factors too

[unborn smelt]

not neccessarily - if Hunt can also have an issue with oversampling, it may be that you just personally work better with the cent's RoF

[hot vigil]

@hardy coral Here ya' go a lot of Nagant vs Conversion fanning data.
I will note there is difference, nagant is worse, but I don't think to a point where it matters in close range.

[unborn smelt]

oversampling in CoD back then was the phenomenon where you click, the gun fires, you click before it's ready again so that input is ignored, the gune then waits for the next click input to fire a second shot

[hardy coral]

There's other small things I found out too which the devs have overlooked which helps prove my point in a way. In the stats and dev statement the regular vandal fires quicker than the vandal striker but this doesn't hold for iron repeater where they fire at the same rate.

[unborn smelt]

if smth like that happens too in hunt it can lead to quite big margins of human error

[hardy coral]

And the cent does visibly and in reality fire much slower when hipfiring than ADS even without iron repeater.

They just forgot to change the firerate with the buff and it has stayed that way.

[unborn smelt]

that is absolutely within the realm of possibility - but i'm currently incabable of testing myself and assuming you're right on the info that is basically "trust me bro i tested it" is hard to justify

not saying you're wrong - not saying the stat cards are always right either

[hardy coral]

Rough 14.4 seconds firing all 10 shots hipfire. 1.44 seconds per shot isn't even at the 1.6 number.

[unborn smelt]

but even if it shoots faster, lets assume you're right

[hardy coral]

Well actually it's the same hipfire and ADS so I am wrong on my assertion, iron repeater is actually that strong.

[unborn smelt]

at the end of the day i still think it doesn't matter much in the vetterli vs Cent discussion

even if the cent is shooting faster both RoF and high velocity - the vetterli crosses that very powerful 130 dmg mark both for body OHK as well as just a bit more range in general, which in the end comes down to preferance

the vetterli doesn't trump the Cent as much anymore as it did in the past

[hardy coral]

The point I'm really making is that the vet is the gun without a place and so requires a buff. Cent is basically fine as is, even compared to krag.

[unborn smelt]

I don't think it is - i personally think the vet's high dmg is more valuable than the Cent's RoF

[hardy coral]

The vet cycle isn't right either way. It's 1.25 hipfire and 1.57 ADS without iron.

[unborn smelt]

That may very well be

wouldn't be the first time

[hardy coral]

Uppercut says 1.6, fires as fast as 1.26 ADS.

[unborn smelt]

however i can't confirm nor deny at this point

[hardy coral]

Just try each gun in the shooting range (cent isn't there so take one).

[unborn smelt]

I did - i didn't feel a significant diffrence from short testing - nor with manual stopping time

but then again i currently don#t have recording software installed so human errors are likely substancial

so i'm not fomfortable making claims on that ground

[hardy coral]

Most of the cycle times are off and the best I can say is that they rounded them all up.

[unborn smelt]

That's smth i'm not inclined to believe tho

[hardy coral]

Well considering the horror that the "handling" stat was I don't trust anything but the raw damage and MV stats.

[unborn smelt]

i don't doubt singular mistakes. But without actual evidence i'm not inclined to believe the new stats which were jsut recently redone are most/all wrong

afterall they did just recently go ahead and redid the often missunderstood stats on the stat cards

[native lodge]

I get wanting to nerf flash bombs but using realism as an argument, when the real life equivalent is actually just way worse than games seems weird to me.

[pulsar slate]

@noble thistle Bloodline plays no role at matchmaking at all

[little carbon]

Besides saying that thats what i learned in my lectures when studying and what i use in my day to day work it seems to be really hard to find any credible source (or any source at all claiming a definition for that matter) online. But i do invite you to search yourself, just keep in mind that a source giving a general definition of the word is more likely to give you the definition as used by consumers, not as used in design.

But the gist is that arcade games, stemming from the old arcade machines, describe games that are easy to pick up and play with a focus on mechanical skill. (Also keep in mind that the old arcades didnt really have depth in mind with their games, cause that wasnt the target audience) They are usually simple concepts with heigh skill ceilings in their chosen mechanical skill.

A relatively common classification group (especially in relation to shooters) is in casual (low success correlation to both mechanical and intellectual skill), arcade (high mechanical, low intellectual), strategic (low mechanical, high intellectual) and competitive (high both).

[noble thistle]

Yeah, wrong choice of words on my part. I meant, matchmaking in the sense of finding random partners. Bloodline of less than 100 only matches you with partners that are less than 100. It makes it very hard, if not impossible, to find random duos or trios

[pulsar slate]

that is 100% not true. Bloodline is not taken into account for matching randoms ether

[noble thistle]

Well I'm not here to argue with you, but until I reached bloodline 100, it took me on average 30+ minutes to find random teammates, now it takes between 1 and 15 seconds

[little carbon]

If you are not prestiged and below BL100 it will prefer to match you up with players that are the same

[pulsar slate]

whatever, I am not prestige 100 and get matched with prestige 100 all the time

[little carbon]

Prestige isnt bloodline tho

[pulsar slate]

my faul. But it is the same for bloodline. Currently not bl100 getting matched with bl 100. Also when i am 100 i get matched with bl below 100 all the time. Taking BL into account for matchmaking wouldn't make any sense

[noble thistle]

It's bloodline of less than 100 and 0 prestige. Anything over that the partner matchmaking is open and works as expected. I'm talking about when you first bought the game, before you ever reached bl100

Having just bought the game and grinding to 100, I am suggesting that the devs make it easier by opening it up before bl100

[little carbon]

Have you prestiged at least once?

[pulsar slate]

oh! That might actually make sense. I am not sure about that but i think this might be an issue with the "noob protection" (no offence) interfering with the MMR matchmaking. Usually, matchmaking is purely based on MMR

[unborn smelt]

The only somewhat applicable definition i could find says arcade games are generally designed to be easy to pick up in the first rounds (to get people to play on the arcade machine), then ramp up difficulty significantly to present people with a "game over" screen and make them pay to try again (since we're still talking about a "pay per game" model like a slot machine), and on top often arcade games reward a second, third, umpteenth try with a temporary reduction in difficulty to keep the players interest and make them feel like they improoved much more than they actually did.

It does not say that arcadish games are generally focused on one set of skills over another - it just describes how they dynamically adjust the difficulty to keep players paying more for as long as possible.

That's also the reason why i was asking about sources, because usually there are none and if there are some they are likely not reliable, even because we usually don't even have reliable definitions for lots of the terminology. (Not you specifically just in general)
We have had the same issue over the word "competetive" in hunts description.

So to me an "arcadish" game is characterized by usually high speed/low time rounds (because arcade games are often paid per round), generally less realistic and more "floaty" gunplay/gameplay (due to how "low tech" hardware was in those arcade machines), and usually more focus on a "game over and try again" approach than having people not take unfavorable fights to beginn with (because again paid per round)

Hunt IMO became more arcadish, when they wen't away from having for example diffrent sway on diffrent ammo types to a largely unified sway model, and a unified weapon swapp time, it mooved more into tha arcady direction with changes like reduced match timers, and bonuses for fast extractions, and less consequences for death.
I don't wanna say all of those are bad or that hunt only went that way tho

getting more action going is to a degree a good thing - afterall IMO the goal must be a balance between slow and deliberate and fast enough to keep people satisfied.
Adding of inertia was also very imortant, IMO and a step away from very "arcady" movement for example

[flat sandal]

I get that, I think it might be due to us knowing everything about the game now, taking the magic away. I watched a bunch of old videos and it didn't really look that different.

[late quartz]

Genre definitions are often pretty vague and nebulous, but I definitely wouldn't say arcade shooters have a sole focus on mechanical skill? Even something like Quake which is more or less the archetypical arcade shooter has huge elements of map knowledge and resource economy.

Again it's pretty subjective, but I think "arcade shooter" is typically used to denote games that favor mechanics and gameplay over diegetic consistency.
Games that focus on gameplay first rather than things like realism, thematic consistency, plausibility, games that make little effort to hide that they're an abstract entertainment medium.
Something we'd generally consider "arcadey" would be respawning, because it's almost always just sort of unexplained magic rather than some sort of science fiction or in-universe event. Typically when we respawn in a game there aren't any efforts given to explain how its possible, how we get there etc.

The "opposite" genre, if we can call it that, would be milsims which sacrifice MASSIVELY on gameplay, convenience, and quality of life in favor of extreme thematic consistency and realism.

I'd never call Hunt an "arcade shooter" as it's still deep into the other end of the spectrum however it's certainly more arcadey than it once was, as most competitive games tend to go, because the quality of the gameplay seems to have a proportionally greater impact on the quality of the experience overall when compared to its groundedness.
Comparatively few player requeue for hunt to get back into an immersive roleplaying experience. Typically the "magic" of the setting wears off after a while, and the interesting unique gameplay is what brings people back.
The setting is important for Hunt, but the game isn't carried on its setting alone.

[unborn smelt]

Oh absolutely that's a large - if not the major factor to it

however they also made some changes away from the more grounded play to make certain things easier - like the afformentioned unification of sway and weapon swapp time between ammo types

[late quartz]

There are very few changes that have made hunt less arcadey

it's almost all neutral or more arcadey

[flat sandal]

just found the delorean 😄 didn't know about it

would prioritise competitive then immersive hunters assisiation type sim. So basically never add gameplay fluff that feels out of place within the sim aspect unless it's super beneficial to the competitive aspect. That way you should end up with something that feels simmy as well. I don't think that hunt can stand on the competitive leg alone.

I can see why it feels more arcady to ppl and I think it wouldn't happen with said design restriction

[little jackal]

@alpine gust I like the papers part, but +2 for things like nitro is just too good.

[flat sandal]

@last parcel just curious, what do ppl need 100 slots for? Based on the vote there is a demand for it. What do you guys even need 50 for? Store contraband?

That makes me think how close we actually are to having storage. For all intends and purposes we already do have it. Personally I don't use it as it is cumbersome and kinda pointless as well due to hunt Dollar economy

[crystal plume]

Some people like to hoard things I guess, I play with a single hunter slot and loadout slot 99% of the time

[flat sandal]

That being said. It's something I wouldn't touch as it would increase the p2wness

Yeah the slots are kinda dodgy

They emphasise the cluncky menu too much too 😄

Actually, I counter suggest having only one^^

Or 10 after fixing the menu

Changed my mind. 1!

Also remove this hire and fire free hunters for some free contraband thing. Its just weird and there are other ways to guarantee that a totally broke player can play. Honestly, just get rid of free hunters and provide one when it happens (does it ever?)

[unborn smelt]

that's how it was in the past and the issue with that is you confine people with already low money (and likely lower end skill - as the cause for low money) to play unfun and very bad loadouts just incentivizing a downward spiral

[rotund obsidian]

I would take more tier 1-3 hunters if they weren't like, comically overpriced for the junk they came with

[queen jungle]

Tier 0 Life = best life

Not having to worry about anything

[unborn smelt]

I miss the romero being only 5$

wait 4$ IIRC

Winnie C was 5

[flat sandal]

Was that before matchmaking? It would still be the same now right? I do t really understand which problem free hunters solve

[unborn smelt]

Free hunters make it so you don't need to spend as much money on hunters which come with stuff you really don't like

So if you're running low on money you get to use your remaining money to play more of the stuff you enjoy instead of being stuck with having to buy hunters with RNG chosen garbage weapons

IMO it's better to give people, that already have too much money anyway a comparatively tiny amount more money - than to lock people that are already down and hurting into playing stuff they really don't enjoy

[flat sandal]

I would hope nobody is constantly low. If they are they'd probably quit soon anyway^^ you would have to be at the Motto. Of 1 star

[unborn smelt]

TBH i was constantly low when i still prestiged and mained melee...

and i wans't even in a low star rating

i was bouncing between 5* and 6*

I just didn't enjoy being forced into playing a money preserving or more safe passive playstyle

[flat sandal]

Yes but it locks hoarders in a silly loop as well

[flat sandal]

Isn't that a big part of the Apeal of the game though?

[unborn smelt]

yes it does. But i'd argue locking someone into a "silly look" is less bad than locking someone who's already down and hurting into an even more disadvantageous playstyle

[flat sandal]

Silly loop sry

[unborn smelt]

To a degree yes - but it should not be too restrictive

i think the way it currently works does this quite well - you can still run out of money, but as long as you have just a bit left you can rather freely choose from low end weapons for a multitude of cases and at least get some customisation done for a more appealing playstyle.

But if you're running low on money it's not like you get higher end weapons for free, so investing money into your loadout still has a purpose

[flat sandal]

Possible that this is better for the majotity of players.

I think it's a bit cluncky

[unborn smelt]

It absolutely is a bit clunky

a compromise i could see is only being able to buy free hunters once you drop below a certain money threshold (instead of literally not being able to afford any hunter in the recruitment tab, as it was in the beginning)

[flat sandal]

Yeah that would fix it

[unborn smelt]

But tbh i'd still love to see hunter models evolve through Tiers, with increasing hunter levels - which has been a common request for ages

[flat sandal]

Given what's in the Pipeline it's not likely happening soon

Unless they plan to surprise us^^

I hope this stuff is picking up a bit when the Update to the latest engine Version is done. I think that is a lot of the reason why things feel slow atm, that and the New map

[kind olive]

Can we get rid of the contraband limits or at least raise the amount. I get tired of shuffling equipment on my 50 hunter slots to make room. Im prestige 100. So if I go broke Im broke. I also run quick play alot. I just hate throwing contraband away. Some of my funnest games and builds is running garbage pale kids.

This mainly with tools and consumables

And this the response to the idea of people with low skill having to run cheap loadouts when broke.

I just dont see the point in having the contraband limit

You run play the game run what you like. Times get bad you have a plethara of contraband stuff to use

I can make some magic happen with a hand axe, nagant precision and a pocket of contraband flashes and weak vitale and stamina shots

I would also like to sort my hunters is there no way to add columns so I can sort them to thier builds

Maybe transpose the single array . And adjust it into a 5X10 instead of a 1x50

[karmic ivy]

They said they could do it, They also question if it would be worth the cost. I tend to agree. I would rather Hunt go forward.

[frozen rose]

Im playing 24/7 during heavy rain maps, every game its so annoying. What are the chances getting this rain map 9 times in a row?

I cant hear and see shit and headsman and reptile skins are invisible

[flat sandal]

That's my thing about the way it's handeled rn. You can store things in a super awkward way, on all the hunters in their slots. You have to mindlessly throw stuff away or shuffle around. Either way it's not satisfying. I don't super mind but it is bugging me in the back of my mind as well and I'm not even that kind of guy^^. No bueno, would change.

[kind olive]

@flat sandal

I run alot of builds to compliment my team and I get tired of digging through and wasting time finding the hunter or item

Like if my teammates need something for challenges like throwing knife for hive why buy them if I dont regarly use them so i toss them on a hunter. To make room

Just get tired of sorting and digging . There is advantage to this current way

[flat sandal]

There is an advantage, that's the problem 😄

If it's supposed to be like that then just give everyone proper storage. I dont think that hunt is supposed to be that kind of game though

[queen jungle]

There really should be an account limit to contraband weapons. Five per base should be fine. If they then introduced a relative cost system, it would return the economy to a more healthy state

[unborn dagger]

A relative cost system?

[queen jungle]

Relative to total Hunt Dollars. E. g. You have 10k Hunt Dollars and a Drilling costs 510 or 20% of your total money (depending on which is higher). This way, hoarding resources would be limited and even players with hundreds of thousands or even millions of Hunt Dollars would once again have to face the danger of running low and having to take budget loadouts.

It's been suggested a few times throughout the history of Hunt

[late quartz]

Is there an issue with peope having too many contraband weapons? Like I agree with the sentiment that the limit makes inventory management needlessly complex, but I don't see any issue with people hoarding too many weapons

[queen jungle]

It leads to all kinds of economical problems because it removes the main Hunt Dollar sink.

[late quartz]

I don't think contraband is even in the top 5 of problems with the economy

You need to consistently win fights and trade up to build up a hoard of weapons

Which means you are still running cheaper loadouts and working up to more expensive ones

It's not adding anything to the net economy, the weapons are still being purchased by somebody, and you still have to spend money on consumes in order to consistently come out on top and extract with contraband

[crimson dirge]

is there any point in talking about how bad the desync is? Will it ever be addressed or should I just quit playing?

[unborn smelt]

Desync has been reduced to basically zero a short while back. What are you experiencing that makes you feel there's bad desync ?

[crimson dirge]

dead center shots from 5 feet away that get no hit marker. This happens to me constantly. I even capture my replays and go back to watch in slow mo as I shoot with precision only to watch myself die and get no hit marker

[late quartz]

What sort of latency do you play with? Are you hardwired?

[crimson dirge]

29-47

[unborn smelt]

then i don't know. The typical desync of being repositioned off ledges etc, basically disappeared with a fix a short while ago. Do you remember if you can see bloodsplatter in the replays ?

[late quartz]

Is there a blog post or patchnotes about this? I'd like to see what they had to say. Love this sort of thing

[crimson dirge]

hardwired on a full duplex gigabit fiber connection

[unborn smelt]

I don't think they did a blopost about that - none that i know of at least

[trail carbon]

I've also had this happen to me in this latest update several times. It's kind of weird, but when I watch the recordings, I see bloodsplatters and no hitmarkers.

[queen jungle]

Would you mind sharing those recordings?

[unborn smelt]

afaik the way it works is basically, if you can see bloodsplatter (which is created clientside) your client sent info to the server claiming you hit a shot

If there's no hitmarker however the server didn't validate the shot for whatever reason

[trail carbon]

I could put mine in the bugs channel later, I'd have to go digging when I get home, wouldn't take too long though.

[trail carbon]

I was pretty sure that hunt used purely client-side hit validation

[unborn smelt]

No it does not

[trail carbon]

Unless that changed or I misunderstood

[unborn smelt]

it used client side hitreg - with serverside validation

[late quartz]

No games use purely client side hitreg

[trail carbon]

Ah

[late quartz]

It would make cheating incredibly easy

[trail carbon]

I thought it was a weird decision, makes much more sense that way

[late quartz]

https://www.huntshowdown.com/news/the-state-of-hit-registration-in-hunt

Not sure how relevant this still is

But I'd imagine it's largely still valid

[trail carbon]

Can't read that right now, my phone hates links in discord for some reason

[unborn smelt]

yes it is in large still valid

the specific numbers may be outdated tho as they imporooved the system a few times

the "trading changes" for example were a change done specifically due to too many invalidations

[trail carbon]

@midnight raptor When you shoot someone in the arm, and it would've hit the chest, hunt still applies full chest damage.

[unborn smelt]

to add to that -> a video demonstration:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDlTFoFNxsc

[crimson dirge]

yeah how/where would I do that?

[queen jungle]

You can just upload clips of up to 100MB on the Discord server

[crimson dirge]

in this channel?

[queen jungle]

Sure

[queen jungle]

https://youtu.be/zDlTFoFNxsc

[lavish thunder]

if u shoot someone from the side it hits the arm and its way less damage. it does not count as a torso hit. thats the problem. it shoudl count as a torso but it dont. if i shot someone from teh side it def. will go through the arm and into the chest.

at this point im so fed up with this game i dont really care anymore lol. i dont play it that much anyways. its just ridiculous. the rng is off the charts and now these random ass rain maps its getting lamer.

[vital fractal]

I thought ballistic weapons do have limb-pen, so if you shot someone in the upper arm directly perpendicular to their view- it’ll cross the arm and land as a upper torso?

Like for example with a Krag- idk about compact ammo however

And idk about special ammo options with limb pen

The Test Range is great for this sorta question so, you can test it

[hardy coral]

If you shoot someone from the side it pens to their chest, if it only does arm damage that means you only hit the arm.

[normal horizon]

all ammo has limb pen even custom ammo, apart from obvious bolts arrows dragonbreath and startshells

[hardy coral]

If it's a projectile with an arc it won't pen arms basically.

[normal horizon]

custom ammo types might have less penetration values but those are only for objects not hunters

[hardy coral]

Do steel balls pen arms?

[vital fractal]

Thanks for clarification, I’ll do some testing on my own but I see what you’re saying

[trail carbon]

100% positive, just watch the video by NixaTek that .Finall posted

[rotund obsidian]

I thought buckshot can't pen arms either but I'm not sure

[crystal plume]

Everything apart from projectiles that stick to targets will pen limbs

[rotund obsidian]

hmm, good to know

that includes shotbolt? 🤔

[crystal plume]

Yes

As far as I know at least

@strong tapir Removed your post since it wasn't feedback, but soul survivor hunters go into the soul survivor tab in your recruits menu

[strong tapir]

I just learned a new thing. Thank you!

[pliant latch]

Do you think region locking the game is too controversial of a topic?

[grizzled umbra]

Man, having come back after an 8month deployment. This game has really turned to shit. Self revive, drone bugs, 6star is mad packed with cheaters, and the amount of bugs that tell you you're banned or people straight crashing your whole teams game. Sad to see, used to really love this game, but idk anymore.

[pliant latch]

I am sick and tired of dying to 200+ ping chinese players who trade me when they are literally on the floor

Just region lock the game and it will be 10000x better

[vital fractal]

I don’t mind the idea. Would like feedback on it.

[lavish thunder]

lol

[silent tartan]

well there is already ping limit

[vital fractal]

I love technicalities too

[lavish thunder]

take a look at this mornings cheater.. just watch im sure you all seen similiar

[little carbon]

This is correct

The foundations were explained, albeit a bit too simplified in the hitreg blogpost. The blood being clientside can be tested by comparing a high ping client to a low ping client. Time to blood is the same (instant) on both clients, whereas the hitmarker is delayed on higher ping clients

[keen dune]

I think the self res was bad design also!

[blissful parcel]

I posted this in "#latest-update-discussion" as well, but I think it is relevant here as well:

The last few days I noted the time of days (TOD) I encountered in 100 played rounds. This resulted in: 44 rain, 12 fog, 12 night, 4 afternoon and 28 day TOD. In the figure, rain, fog and night TOD are colored in shades of blue while afternoon/day TOD are colored in shades of yellow.

That adds up to 68% rain/fog/night compared to 32% day/afternoon.
In my opinion, the ratio of night and day TODs should at least be decreased to 50%.

[chilly nova]

Getting slowed down to a halt after jumping is stupid af. Get rid of that garbage.

[chilly nova]

That's disgustingly bad. Appreciate the stats

[unborn dagger]

Bro do you always whine this much? Lol stop spamming jump

[chilly nova]

I vaulted then jumped once. Do you always troll the discord to be a little brown noser? Go apply as a mod

[unborn dagger]

Not my fault you whine a lot dude

[chilly nova]

Don't waste your breath

[unborn dagger]

I will

[chilly nova]

bye

Btw, everyone that has paid for this game plenty of times over, please do include your negative feedback ("whining") here. They need to hear it

[unborn dagger]

Still whining bro? God damn lol

[karmic ivy]

no no no, get with the times my man, calling something garbage is useful feedback now, helpful even...

[rotund obsidian]

while i'm glad people cant jump around like a crackhead to dodge bullets, it does really get annoying when you need to like, jump up a few times to parkour or get up some crates and then you just can't move afterwards for a few seconds

[unborn dagger]

Pretty much what I'm saying.

[karmic ivy]

yes, I joke 🙂

[rotund obsidian]

@tribal wyvern #feedback message separate burn/bleed binding yourself, what if somebody wants to revive a teammate or pick up a gun to fend off an attacker before they stop a bleed?

[unborn dagger]

Oh I know, Im just agreeing with ya

But I do feel like they could change the way jumping works like not being able to move around(Even if it's slightly) while you're in the air.

[vital fractal]

I don’t know man, even with the current jump stops in place- people can be surprisingly good at having pseudo-seizures on a controller and dodging some surprising shots. The movement in this game is very weird, and the bunny dance that tends to occur is not very fun to witness or fight against.

[flat sandal]

Nice one. It will change, fear not 😄

[vital fractal]

Why don’t the Scottfield Spitfire and Brawler not lose out on damage/range in any capacity compared to the full length barrels of the normal, swift, and precision variants?

Especially considering how most every other weapon has it’s damage altered by barrel length (excluding the Winfield Bayonet… which should also gain a little damage too by the established logic in the game currently.)

[mellow mural]

@fluid saffron You made this suggestion a few hours back, but the reason they'd never add Spitzer is because it's just a straight upgrade. The Krag does 124 damage to the chest, so it doesn't one-shot downed Hunters with it's regular ammo, which is the drawback of Spitzer. So there'd be absolutely no reason to not run Spitzer if all you got for it was a higher Muzzle Velocity and collateral damage potential.

#game-ideas message

[late quartz]

HV ammo on compact and medium weapons doesn't reduce damage, only increased recoil and requires special ammo boxes to replenish.

These are enough to not be considered a "straight upgrade" by crytek.

The damage reduction from spitzer would make it a more dramatic drawback compared to HV, even if it doesn't change the STK against 125 HP opponents

[unborn smelt]

But it should then also get the dmg falloff boost of spitzer and the pen of spitzer...

[brave ruin]

@exotic canopy to be honest, legendary hunters must be for free by default. You already payed BB or real money for it.

[unborn smelt]

What is this argument ?

I paid BB so i should get Hunters with 3 traits for free ?

PLS no...

[mellow mural]

HV on Compact and Medium don't get the high damage dropoff, high penetration, player penetration, high damage at ranges, extreme headshot ranges when added to the Krag sniper. There's a reason HV and Spitzer are two different bullets, because they're on two very different kinds of weapons. Long ammo is better because of it's inherent advantages compared to Compact and Medium, and by extension the drawbacks towards HV compact will be significantly smaller compared to Spitzer Long Ammo.

Comparing Compact and Long Ammo is just about the biggest apples to oranges comparison in Hunt when talking about regular bullets.

HV doesn't even give you a higher effective range, which is a drawback in and of itself when compared to FMJ. Spitzer has high effective range, high MV, high damage, low damage drop off, high penetration, player penetration, and a high rate of fire if added to Krag.

[brave ruin]

Why not? You can get all 3 traits in one match even if you have free hunter. Also most of them useless. I do not see the point why legendary hunters should sells for hunt dollars. Better spend this money on loadouts. Tier hunters at least have some weapons, which mostly locked + traits.

Right now Legendary hunters can buy only skilled players, which have a lot of money. I think free legendary hunters can change it + other players can buy dlc, which is useless right now.

[unborn smelt]

becáuse it'd be paying real money to have an advantage over having to buy regular hunters. I'd rather not have any P2W paving the road for more...

If one wants free legendary hunter recruitment, which i'm not agianst, they should come with no traits what so ever

[brave ruin]

No problem, then there must be options:

• free - without traits
• hunt dollars - with traits (just to save personality of hunter)
  I think it will be fair.

[queen jungle]

Personally, I find myself using non-legendary hunters more often than legendary ones. Apart from the whole spending valuable Hunt dollars, the normal hunters are far more immersive.

[last blaze]

@coarse breach the visuals of the game need to be fixed or a tarkov style post FX need to be added before the even think about banning reshade

[restive widget]

@brave ruin I'm really tired of getting legendary hunters with 3 traits worth 1-2 trait points. And it's extreemly common.
While it's not so hurting durning regular gameplay, at event with death cheat it's not fun, when you have much higher propability to meet lvl 50 hunters.

I give it a longer thought about possible resolves, and free, lower cost, fixed amount of trait points -> All of em just throw off the cliff.

But I liked one idea:
Group traits like hunters, to tiers.
Tier I - 1-2 points
Tier II - 3-4 points
Tier III - 5-9 points
Then:
In general shop:
Tier 1 hunter get Tier I trait.
Tier 2 hunter get Tier I & II trait.
Tier 3 hunters get Tier I, II & Tier III trait.

Same with legendary hunters.
They all get 3 traits, one of each bracket.

You should have:
Still randomized traits.
Much better balance about trait points distribution.

[late quartz]

Sure but the drawbacks still exist. It's not a "straight upgrade", it has ups and downs like any other custom ammo type.

I don't think spitzer on the krag is a particularly appealing idea but it's not a crazy one or something that couldn't fit into this game's balance.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but spitzer's lower dropoff still makes it weaker almost all the time because of the base damage nerf too. A slightly less harsh dropoff curve doesn't necessarily mean it's doing more damage, it's moreso to keep it more closely in line with normal long ammo rather than tanking even further in its intended ranges

[unborn smelt]

well yes and no - yes up close basic long ammo deals more dmg because the higher dmg offsets the 60dmg falloff and less fgalloff in general, however afther a while spitzer retains more dmg than basic long does, so it is very much intended to take long ammo even further in it's ranges

just not a flat out range bonus - it trades less CQC dmg for more long range dmg

[late quartz]

Based on what I can find the raw damage values at range are almost always still lower

Although this guy could be totally wrong, it seems like this data is reasonably well respected

[unborn smelt]

I'd not trust this tho... the spreadsheet claims the range modifier on spitzer is worse than on basic long ammo past 200m

https://www.huntshowdown.com/news/ammo-range-changes the official page says the opposite

[hardy coral]

You can check the damage in the shooting range relatively accurately.

[late quartz]

yeah it's pretty testable, and I'll go in and do that in a bit here

[hardy coral]

I don't think spitzer has any effect on the damage dropoff, it just lowers the damage and since long holds its damage better at distance you lose the two tap much sooner.

[unborn smelt]

it does

it has a lower dropoff itself and it should start dropping at only 60m not 40

[late quartz]

yeah I'm trying to find the origin of this other dropoff chart the devs put out

The documentation is pretty bad

[unborn smelt]

well the one the devs put out is made by them afaik - the big one you showed was made by I'm gonna assume they're called Fayte

[hardy coral]

Sparks two taps to 200 metres afaict. Mosin to 159, Spitzer to 96. I'll double ckeck shooting range.

[late quartz]

No, sure, I know, I'm just saying that was also based on a graph the devs put out

I'm trying to find that one to compare

[hardy coral]

Yeah mosin deals 75 with spitzer at 96.

It does only deal 75 to like 157-158 not 159 with regular ammo though.

Sparks deals 75 to 198.

The nixatek damage calc numbers are only off very slightly.

But this could even just be true still considering the position your ping comes from.

Not 100%.

[unborn smelt]

spitzer is entirely wrong there afaik

because as can be seen in the official graphs it should start at 60m

[hardy coral]

I just tested it, the spitzer damage on the calc is correct for the guns it properly applies the damage reduction too.

Well the official graphs are literally wrong.

[unborn smelt]

but the lebel spitzer in the nixa calc drops starting at 40m

[hardy coral]

The damage starts dropping at 40 in game.

[unborn smelt]

It sure does...

[hardy coral]

Spitzer doesn't really need any changes tbh.

[unborn smelt]

well it may need them. Unless i'm forgetting an update that removed the increased dropoff, it is in direct conflict to the informations they put out

It akso deals 116 dmg despite the dmg stat saying 117

[hardy coral]

Incorrect rounding?

The lebel deals 113 with spitzer, that is correct.

[unborn smelt]

mosin says 117 - but it only dealt 116 point blank in the shooting range

[late quartz]

Classic Crytek incorrectly labeling their weapons' stats

[hardy coral]

At least handling is gone

[late quartz]

So, sorry, to summarize Deadly, were you able to confirm the spreadsheet I posted is correct or incorrect?

Or were you looking at Nixa's calc exclusively

[unborn smelt]

Actually my bad

[hardy coral]

I tested it in the shooting range for spitzer. It drops at 40 metres and the damage numbers in the nixatek calculator are correct.

[unborn smelt]

the graph just looks wrong - the gray line for spitzer is just barely visible over the light background checkering

I missread that graph all along

With like 200% zoom on top of opening in fullscreen already it's visible - and i gladly admit i'm wrong

could have used a better distinguishable color than light grea tho...

[unborn smelt]

So i want to correct my statement - i did do a stoopid and missread, you're right

and the stats are right

[late quartz]

The grey is FMJ 💀

Which makes even less sense

tbh none of this is your fault LOL

[unborn smelt]

well it does - they did an oopsie with the graph color to which ammo type i guess

[late quartz]

Interesting stuff

[unborn smelt]

In the graph below, you can see a comparison with the Spitzer (grey line) and base long ammo (blue line).

that's the text to the image

so apparently the orange line is FMJ and grey is Spitzer which makes the list in the pic wrong

[late quartz]

Soft-coded ingame dropoff charts when

[unborn smelt]

i'd love that ngl...

integrate it into the sound preview thingie where you can scroll out anyway

[late quartz]

All of this is to say tho, the only significant UPGRADE on spitzer over stock long ammo is, aside from the MV of course, is it hunter pen

And I'd say that's such an incredibly niche benefit that it probably shouldn't play a big role in our attitudes towards it

[unborn smelt]

yeah

Spitzer ammo isn't great

[late quartz]

In terms of absolute raw power level sure Spitzer inherets the benefits of normal long ammo, which means it's still better than HV just based on that, but the original complaint was that it wasn't a sidegrade and instead a direct upgrade to stock long ammo and thus not a reasonable addition on the Krag

[unborn smelt]

like i enjoy the idea of spitzer - but i aint paying 100§ on top of one of the strongest guns in the game to downgrade it..

[hardy coral]

It still does much better bodyshot damage than compact or medium HV. It is really only good on scoped guns though and those scoped guns are really only good for camping due to their nerfs.

Makes it easier to get the initial headshot on a player which is really the only remaining upside of the scoped guns tbh.

[late quartz]

The higher recoil may also affect the krag more due to its faster rate of fire

If you take more time to recenter and get your aim back where it needs to be it may temper the Krag's higher cycle rate a bit... Seems like a reasonable tradeoff depending on how the recoil actually feels

[hardy coral]

Krag has pretty low recoil, the only issue to exploiting the cycle rate is the return to centre time for the irons.

[late quartz]

I just meant from Spitzer's increased recoil drawback

[hardy coral]

I don't think spitzer would move the needle on that. It'd really only be good on the Krag sniper though.

Unless it made the recoil random up/down/side which it increases on the other bolties.

[dusky tapir]

I'm surprised krag got fmj and not spitzer

but I guess spitzer dmg penalty might've made it too weak?

[rotund obsidian]

honestly when they revealed the krag variants it was such a rollercoaster

seeing krag bayonet had me nutting but seeing krag sniper put me in a state of dread

im extremely glad that thing doesnt have spitzer

vetterli as well, you can shoot well before the gun returns to the centered ironsight position.

[tiny pivot]

flash bomb complaints, i dont really have an opinion on, but i was playing the other day... any r6s players? because im sure someone else would think itd be funny to have warden glasses :D
the context, they could find some way to make it make sense in the old timey hunt gameplay, but basically you would preemptively activate an ability and it would block flashes and maybe things like the glare from electric lights too

[rotund obsidian]

I mean, darksight is right there, if that's the route they wanna take

but i doubt.

[tiny pivot]

though imo, my feedback on the flash bomb complaints overall, id much rather them nerf flash bombs by reducing the time they are active or the radius of the explosion (i am a fan of people not being able to look away because it makes flashes hard af to use, but i do agree with nerfing the radius and essentially making it pinpoint accurate to flash someone fully)

[rotund obsidian]

I'd just like to be able to use darksight to see while i run around after getting flashed instead of just crouching into a wall and hoping for the best.

[tiny pivot]

it would be neat for what i mentioned to be a trait, activate darksight and it weakens or completely nullifies the effects of flashes, maybe if you want to go that far, electric lamp, things that obfuscate vision like chokes or fire smoke

the way i see it imo, is that would be reasonably balanced by how darksight already very much neuters your vision and hearing capabilities

making it a trait would allow a trade off, if you can sense smoke/choke/flash preemptively, you can activate darksight to weeaken the effects or remove them entirely. in my opinion the best balancing of that is how long it takes to get out of dark sight as is, and to pull your gun back out.

[rotund obsidian]

I don't think we need more niche traits to counter specific things. It already sucks when I shoot somebody with poison and they have mithridatist/antidote or drilling/springfield dumdum and they have bloodless.

[tiny pivot]

yeah, thats why i favor them nerfing the item itself, instead of forcing you to buy items to counter it

overall, i favor the "cant look away" aspect because it makes it way too easy for flashes to be useless. but heavily nerfing either the radius, time flashed, or both, would do well.

i would love if they added feedback to things like that, maybe a larger hitmarker or a different style/icon hitmarker for varying intensities of effects

[dusky tapir]

I don't understand why Iron Sharpshooter works like this, meanwhile devastator and repeater keep your sights perfectly aligned

[dusky tapir]

I wonder if something like this would work. Hard to read at a glance tbh

one tick for each bleed intensity, could do the same for poison or flash

[tiny pivot]

I would prefer if like, it was more on the outside of the crosshair

Hit marker sorry

I know this is all hypothetical tho and that’s a great proof of concept

Also a sound, like how there’s sounds for non lethal vs lethal headshots

[crystal plume]

Because pulling back the bolt into your face would probably be quite uncomfortable

So the bolt actions still need to be pulled to the side slightly to make room for that action

[unborn dagger]

It shouldn't be applied to the hitmarker. Hunt is mostly about using your ears to tell what's going on and applying something like that just goes against the point of the game entirely. There should either be different levels of sound for the bleed or visual clues of how much blood the hunter is dropping on the floor

[dusky tapir]

I don't think the bolt travels nowhere near your face

they don't have a problem doing it in animation for some guns either - the mosin nagant does that when empty with iron sharpshooter.

[hardy coral]

Yeah it's just not so usable without cheating with a crosshair.

So it is a real disadvantage to these guns in comparison to something like a centennial or other guns which keep sight picture.

[karmic ivy]

You mean guns are not all equal?!?

j/k

[hardy coral]

It's an earlier point I made with these numbers, is that the krag and vet do fire just about the same speed as the centennial if you fire as fast as possible but centennial keeps sight picture the whole time while the krag and vetterli take longer until the iron sight returns to proper view.

[rotund obsidian]

pretty sure repeater lets you shoot winfields before sights are re-aligned too

wait no im tweaking i think

[dusky tapir]

winfields are yet another exception

terminus = kicks you out of ADS without

cent / 1873 = stay in ADS but sights are not lined up

[dusky tapir]

other bolt actions I tested don't do this

[celest copper]

I wanted to share some of my trait ideas that I believe would be fitting for Hunt Showdown in both balance and style.

Keep in mind Beetlebrain works similar to Necromancer and Serpent. Panic is a quality of life trait for niche situations and weaponry. Panic doesn't simply allow faster weapon switching for all weapons.

6 trait points: Beetlebrain =
Using Dark Sight, gain control of nearby inactive beetles. Beetles are highlighted in Dark Sight for better visibility. Doesn't apply to Beetle view. (25m)

6 trait points: Panic =
When firing an empty weapon, quickly swap to other weapon. (~15% faster. Note: Manual weapon swap is slightly faster with most weapons.)

3 trait point: Mindful =
When using antidote, stamina or regeneration shots, only use half of it. (Note: This allows a second use for the same consumable.)

2 trait points: Masochist =
While bleeding, burning or poisoned, actively regenerate stamina. (Note: doesn't apply to sprinting stamina.)

[dusky tapir]

"masochist" would probs be better rolled into Adrenaline but yeah we've been over that perk

beetlebrain is an odd one

It could really only work on beetles someone has exited

and when does that happen without the beetle exploding?

[crystal plume]

@pulsar slate Please only use the suggestions ideas channel for it's intended purpose, not for your polls

[pulsar slate]

fine. How/where can I do polls then?

[little jackal]

I bet community polls channel would be pretty popular actually

for both researchers and those willing to click emojis

[pulsar slate]

agreed! Or even regular surveys + results from crytek

[hardy coral]

@crystal plume Why is feedback now just suggestions ideas without ratings?

[crystal plume]

The format was put in place to reduce low effort spam posts

[pulsar slate]

Where and how should we put community polls? Or are polls unwanted in general?

[crystal plume]

Post one in the general channel for example if you feel like it, there's no dedicated place for them

[tiny pivot]

oh no, it does. in general on most bolt action weapons, the bolt travels closer to your face than you'd think. if not the bolt, then you're liable to smack yourself in the face lol

to be fair feedback itself most of the time is one diamond followed by 20 nerf necro/flash bombs/remove rain posts

[flat plinth]

the latest wallpaper in #official-art are gorgeous, could we please get them in a higher res? 🙏

[tiny pivot]

i would love consistent ultrawide wallpapers, hunt is the only game i've seen that releases official, high quality, ultrawide ratio wallpapers

[eager bloom]

6 months and EU servers are still broken, packet loss and latency peaks everygame, when will it be acknowledged and worked on ? top priority imo for a pvp fps game, experience is ruined atm

[tacit falcon]

how come i see people stopping bleeds when they start injecting vitality shots but it doesnt stop my bleed when i try to. this makes no sense. its never done that for me. it only stops when i finish the vitality animation and heal not when i start injecting. is mine the bug or is it not supposed to stop the bleed when you start using it

[little jackal]

it's not supposed to

[hardy coral]

The bleed is only stopped when you finish healing with the vit shot.

I think maybe some time in the past the vitality shots did stop the bleed while in the animation but that hasn't been the case for some time if it ever was.

[pulsar slate]

@jagged wagon I totally agree with you. But I have also a super secret tip for you: This prompt only shows up when you re-buy bars in the "respec" tab. If you do it in the "overview" tab it does not. But don't tell anybody, aye?🤯

[jagged wagon]

Oh I am well aware, and that's how I have been doing it, I am simply highlighting yet another simple thing this UI should be doing better for the user experience.

[jagged wagon]

Also, why do you feel the need to sound condescending in this reply?

[bright zealot]

UX (user experience) improvement by doing this is quite debatable. Some people prefer to see stuff like that.

Also, I don't know how you find that guy's reply to be condescending. Keep in mind, how you read text is not always how someone is actually saying something. Lack of tones and your own mental place can affect how text comes across.

[little jackal]

how is it debatable

it's x2 clicks for absolutely zero reason

ux 101: don't prompt, let actions be undoable

[hardy coral]

Yeah, it needs removed. Just extra busywork for nothing.

You remove them without prompt, why do you need to be prompted to add them?

[jagged wagon]

"But don't tell anybody, aye?🤯" The point you are making is fine, and is why emoji's were created in the first place... thats how I read the mind blown image and interpreted it. However, maybe you could let them respond for themselves, instead of doing it for them.

[jagged wagon]

They are just being contrary, that is all.

[bright zealot]

Was in a match, extracting now. Not being contrary. I work as a software engineer and I've had plenty of experience with UX. I know for a fact there's plenty of people out there that would prefer prompts for such things. So, yes, it is debatable.

[hardy coral]

A prompt for something that doesn't matter?

I guess there should be prompts on switching screens in the menu or buying literally any item.

[bright zealot]

That's being a bit exaggerated. The taking of an upgrade point could prevent someone from getting a perk they'd prefer over the health chunk. Personally, I wouldn't take a perk over a health chunk, but there may be situations someone wants to.

[jagged wagon]

Then why is there not a prompt for removing a health chunk? Surly that's more important than a prompt about buying one back...

[little jackal]

it couldn't

[bright zealot]

Removing a health chunk doesn't take upgrade points away.

[hardy coral]

And any chunk you add can just be removed, it's pointless.

You don't get prompted when buying traits.

Even though you lose a trait for removing them (which is properly prompted)

[bright zealot]

lol alright, clearly not going to see any way other than your way. just got in a match, enjoy.

[hardy coral]

You don't have a point, there's no other way to see it.

There is no impact to adding or removing a chunk like there is with removing a trait. There doesn't need to a prompt because nothing is being traded away or lost.

[jagged wagon]

Are you telling me someone would rather enter a match with less than 150 health so they can buy a trait?

[hardy coral]

And they can still do that by just removing the chunk they just added.

[bright zealot]

Yes, I have seen people do it on streams.

[hardy coral]

As a challenge.

[jagged wagon]

So why not be prompted when you buy a trait?

[bright zealot]

Just because it's not prompting everyhwere doesn't invalidate it. Inconsistency definitely is a problem also.

[little jackal]

guess dude could apply to crytek, the kind of ux expertise they keep displaying

[jagged wagon]

Anyway, its feedback for the devs, I guess they can decide if its a pointless prompt on the respec screen, or if they want to add that prompt to everything else, you know, to improve consistency. I am sure that would go down well with the player base.

[bright zealot]

Crytek doesn't pay enough

[queen jungle]

@mystic ridge The reason for this is that legendary weapons are not "skins", but independent variants in Hunt. It's not like slapping a colour onto a gun like many other games do, but rather having entirely new models for each legendary.

[mystic ridge]

Oh so the legendary is a different model?

[queen jungle]

yes

[mystic ridge]

Thanks for letting me know

[flat sandal]

That prompt is still there because it used to be a BB purchase. Just an oversight when they changed it. Seems pretty obvious.

[queen jungle]

Yeah I assume it will be removed in the future.

[flat sandal]

Don't see why not

There are soonish many complaints about flashbangs recently. Had a thought, how about going into dark sight in time mitigates some of the effects?

Wait, you get a promot when adding a chunk? That's weird. Oh well...

[queen jungle]

Yes, to make sure people don't accidentially add the chunks or the wrong chunk

It used to be that small and big chunks had differing costs

[bright zealot]

wait they don't cost differently now? i havent added a big health chunk in ages

[flat sandal]

Nah they should costs the same. It's 100% reversible though so literally doesn't matter

[queen jungle]

Yes, it's the same now. 1 point for small chunk, 2 for big

[flat sandal]

Not the same sry

Yes

Running a big first Chuck can be good now with that burn trait and 2-4 tokens in the pocket

[queen jungle]

When playing solo I prefer big chunks. If I die, it doesn't matter anyways ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[bright zealot]

hadn't thought about that, maybe

i mostly play solo, but the small health chunks work well for me

[ripe basalt]

[bright zealot]

i have noticed only 1 of the past like 10 solos i've killed have necro'd back up... seeems odd, i know death cheat bug means they dont have it every time, but it was still more fr equent til yesterday for me

[flat sandal]

Maybe they are finally running out of their lvl 50 stockpile 😄

[bright zealot]

perhaps lol

[flat sandal]

Yet another little p2w Aspekt of slots actually

[bright zealot]

i use all the blood bonds i find ingame to buy slots.. have quite a bit

[flat sandal]

I mean it's smart but every reason I can think of for having this many slots is bad ^^

[bright zealot]

i just have em fully stocked for when i get the +2 upgrade point reward lol

[flat sandal]

From a Fairness point of viel that id

[queen jungle]

Most of those lvl50s were due to a bug, so it's not like it's a permanent feature

[flat sandal]

Yes that's one of the reasons. Luckily it got nerved

[flat sandal]

True but in the last two Events you could hoard lvl 50s

Still now

[bright zealot]

+2 upgrade point to all hunters just feels bad when you only have one hunter lol. i'd always get it right when im about to prestige too.

[flat sandal]

Well at least you shoot yourself in the foot by prestiging to make up for it 😄 buying an advantage that is

[bright zealot]

how's it buying an advantage lol. all the bloodbonds are from in the game itself just the same as anyone else can get

[flat sandal]

I meant no offence:D

Slots are a pet hate of mine

Cause they are an advantage and bought with Premium currency. The advantages are a bit veiled but there

So +2 upgrade points (got nerved), storing lvl 50 hunter during Events, storing contraband.

I know it's not much but why? 😄

[bright zealot]

But you can get the currency without spending money. This event alone, on a fresh account, I unlocked at least a dozen slots. Maybe even twice that.

Not the same as typical 'premium' currencies.

[flat sandal]

Nope, it isn't really bad otherwise I wouldn't play the game. Though the +2 Was a reason for some ppl to buy them for Real money I bet

[crystal plume]

I don't see slots as any form of an advantage personally

I have 6k hours and I use 1-2 hunter slots and only 1 loadout slot for tools and consumables 🤷‍♂️

[flat sandal]

There are some small advantages. The upgrade point from Tribute were quite huge

Im also not one for shifting contraband around but ppl do. I did start buying a free hunter usually but drop the surplus^^