feedback-discussion

[keen oak]

Limit gameplay variety?

Adding new AI is variety

[celest spindle]

Yeah forcing people to for example at least bring a solution for everything, for example silenced nagant poison otherwise it'll be more difficult

[keen oak]

Youre stretching my friend. You're not forced to bring anything deal with any type of AI it only makes it easier

Youre not forced to take dusters to deal with immolators just like youre not forced to bring tomahawks to deal with armoreds

[celest spindle]

Yeah but if you don't you'll find it difficult

And people don't like difficult things xD

[queen jungle]

Stronger AI would very much improve the experience to what it once was, I. E. players having to be more careful and prove more skill overall

[keen oak]

Oh well

[celest spindle]

Stronger AI would be lovely

Too many people b*%hin about NPCs these days

[keen oak]

Skill-wise sure, but it being an objective improvement to the experience is argumentative.

I for one am a fan of variety which is why I would like more content rather than more of the same, but stronger

[celest spindle]

OR

We could make killing and dealing with AI more rewarding by giving them a purpose of some kind other than weekly challenges and then making them stronger would be appropriate

[keen oak]

Makes sense

Buffing AI just because will only cause frustration among the community

Justified or not is beside the point really

What I can mos def agree on is that the non boss AI part of the game has become stale.

[celest spindle]

Yeah, and weekly challenges feel more like a chore rather than a challenge

So do the AI, they feel like some sort of burden rather than an obstacle or enemy

[carmine needle]

I'm a fan of the (tactic?) style of breaking into a guarded compound in what my partners and I call "My problem is your problem", which involves finding dogs/immolator/armored/all the grunts and aggroing them, then diving into the boss lair/guarded location... honestly works an alarming number of times. Especially immolators, bonus if someone lights him up too.

I like the AI, don't think they subtract anything from the game. Was kinda hoping they would add in gators to the water but s'cool

[hardy coral]

Armoureds dying to ONE throwing axe needs changed.

They are the most trivial AI.

[brisk timber]

Just yesterday we lost a fight because a pack of 5 hellhounds 20 meter behind us in some tall grass decided to go ham on us.

I like AI as an obstacle

But in a game where you can get deleted in 1 or 2 shots an AI that is like a fight on its own shifts fights deciding factors too much

I think where AI is now is okay

[queen jungle]

That's PvPvE for you. No different in similar games such as CoD's DMZ mode. AI can shift the outcome of a fight.

[brisk timber]

There could be made some little balance changes tho yea. Armoreds maybe really a bit too easiy (or tomahawks too strong).

[hardy coral]

Throwing axes are generally okay vs other AI, throwing knives are way too weak in comparison.

[brisk timber]

Yea no thank you. I dont need to get spitzer shot from 100m while some immolator on steroids kills me in 3 hits or so.
Thats busted

AI is fine

[hardy coral]

Hives are fine, grunts shouldn't die to bodyshots and armoureds should be more resistant to throwing axes and the like. Immolator and meathead are also fine.

[brisk timber]

Yea sounds reasonable

Hellhound packs pls 3 max

[queen jungle]

That's not busted, that's a lesson to be more careful next time. Or to use AI to your advantage when engaging an enemy.
AI is something you always need to keep in mind in Hunt. It's not just meant to be a sound trap or something to slow you down. It's a part of any fight.

[brisk timber]

[queen jungle]

Personally:

• Grunts are fine
• Hives are OK
• Armored should get their old DMG and HP back
• Immolators are fine
• Meatheads are fine
• Hellhounds are fine, maybe increase the aggro radius (as the devs have stated Hellhounds are not "normal" AI and meant to be the most dangerous)

[brisk timber]

Yea but i like AI to be like a nuance
Not a completely deciding factor on its own.

I think if AI gets stronger PvP needs to get weaker

Not both

[hardy coral]

Hellhounds could also give more XP, like 40 per.

20 per considering their strength is odd.

[brisk timber]

Hellhounds are the most annoying shit. Increase radius? What
Theres not even a nice skill play to counter them
If a pack decides to fuck you up mid fight you can pray

[hardy coral]

You can shoot them.

[brisk timber]

Yea totaly viable in a gunfight with another team

[hardy coral]

Or stand still and time the melee hit to knock them back.

[brisk timber]

Headshotting 4-5hellhounds

[hardy coral]

Totally is, your fault for not dealing with the hounds earlier.

[brisk timber]

Oh one hellhound has helmet

Whooops

[brisk timber]

Yea i should git gud i know

I should just wander the map kill hellhounds before starting fights

[hardy coral]

Well yeah, same with any other AI. You can easily dispatch them with your gun if they get on you in a fight.

[brisk timber]

Sounds like a fun Hunt experience

[queen jungle]

And as was stated by Dennis when armored hellhounds were introduced that's why they exist.

Hellhounds are not "normal" AI, they are meant to ruin your day.

[hardy coral]

You can also just shoot around the helmet or pen it with FMJ or long.

[queen jungle]

Armored hellhounds were specifically made because normal ones were too easy to get rid of

[brisk timber]

Yea idc what dennis likes tho
what i read over the time in hunt discord its often very controverse takes in the hunt community

[keen oak]

No way. Nope. Hellhounds should NOT get more aggro range

[hardy coral]

Their issue is their inconsistent aggro range, same with immolators.

Given them quite a bit more would make them easier to deal with tbh.

[keen oak]

Hounds are already annoying af

[brisk timber]

I know how to kill them.
My point was theres no skilled plax around them.

Immolator? Choke bomb/bolt
Hive? Headshot or punch bees
Armored? Fire/poison

Hellhounds...just kill them by pure damage and pray they dont have one with a helmet

If they are designed this way okay

But i wouldnt like all AI to be like that

[hardy coral]

It's an aim check and to a lesser extent a weapon check.

If you have something like sparks+single action pistol with no fanning you'll have a bad time.

[queen jungle]

You don't have to like it, but it's the day it's intended. The specific reason why Hellhounds exist is to make our hunters' lifes difficult.

[brisk timber]

Yea would be fine by me for like 2-3 hounds
But in a gunfight 4-5 dogs takes very long and youre probably fucked than by other players

[hardy coral]

Which is sort of the point, you need to deal with them in a good position. Basically just sitting behind good cover and shooting them when the fight starts is enough.

[brisk timber]

Jesus christ
I know

The topic was
Stronger AI would very much improve the experience to what it once was, I. E. players having to be more careful and prove more skill overall

[hardy coral]

Which I agree with.

[celest spindle]

Armoreds really dont need more damage

[brisk timber]

And i dont.
And i didnt ask on lectures to kill hellhounds.

[hardy coral]

Hellhounds are a pretty good bar for the strength of AI in their best case.

[queen jungle]

They used to two-hit you. At least more HP would be nice so that you would have to regenerate stamina to kill them, like it used to be.

Kinda sad Nightmare mode was shelved for now 😦

[keen oak]

No thanks. Giving them more hp is enough

[brisk timber]

I would be fine with stronger AI if the pvp was more centered around 2 or even 3 tapping.
Players abusing other players dealing with AI would be way too annoying

[celest spindle]

Yeah fuck that
A hellhound deals like 1/8th of my hp in 1 hit i dont need something to clap me 10 times as fast

[queen jungle]

[celest spindle]

Give armoreds more hp and bleed, thats fine with me

But not more damage

[brisk timber]

I think probably for some players a more hardcore way of playing the game would be cool.
But for most players playing like 20min around some AI like youre in vietnam jungle just tp get HS by a spitzer sniper guy and get booted to mainmenu...is very anti climatic

It makes the game too random and frustrating for most people

You rarely have a feeling of achievment that way

[celest spindle]

That way an armored can still kill you if you're on your last healthbar, since they deal like 95 damage

[brisk timber]

And it caters heavily into bushwookie tactics

[keen oak]

bE mOrE cArEfuL

[worthy knoll]

Crytek comfirmed Cat people. They want us to hate dogs.

[brisk timber]

And then we end up in a game where nobody wants to deal with AI and everyone sitting with sniper scopes on hills in bushes

No thank you

[queen jungle]

Alright, stop that attitude

[keen oak]

Its a joke, chill man

[celest spindle]

I mean he aint wrong

[hardy coral]

Well be more careful, right now the AI is completely trivial.

[queen jungle]

Everybody is entitled to their view, but mockery is just destructive behaviour.

[hardy coral]

They need small buffs, it'd hardly make them a threat by themselves but something to consider if you know there's enemies about or you're in an actual fight.

[celest spindle]

Ima brainstorm for like 2 hours to see if i can come up with a mutually benifical change to the ai

[brisk timber]

It isnt. Otherwise we wouldnt kill it.
Trivial means you can stand beside it and dont care.
And thats just not true.

[celest spindle]

Fair

[hardy coral]

How is it not trivial? Everything dies easily to throwing axes and the knuckle knife.

Only time it is ever an issue is if hounds get on you in a fight when you're either out of ammo or have a sub-par loadout.

[keen oak]

You took it personally I guess. I wasnt mocking anyone.

[hardy coral]

You obviously were

[brisk timber]

You wanna say if you have 1vs1 and a hive and some grunts on your ass its trivial?

Its by far not trivial.

Sure its not a 1vs1vs3 or so
But its still a thread to deal with and focus on rather fast

[keen oak]

Eye of the beholder I guess. It wasnt aimed at anyone specifically. I merely made a joke, because people tend to (copy/paste) use this argument whenever something catering to bushwookies is discussed

Its dishonest

[dull mason]

Someone having AI aggro on them during a fight is similar to them being on fire/bleeding to me. It is mainly a distraction and simply adds difficulty for them to concentrate which allows for the other party to be more aggressive

Depends on the AI though, of course, a hive/immolator/armoured is magnitudes more destructive in a fight than a few grunts

[celest spindle]

So far i've come up with this for the grunts, how does it sound?

"Grunt Behaviour: grunts right now feel nothing more than a pest mostly because of how weak both physically and vitally they are, i propose a change to their behaviour and formation, for example:
Grunts will now be more intelligent and alert other grunts if they hear/see a hunter, if Grunt A is within vicinity to Grunt B and Grunt C is within vicinity of Grunt B, Grunt A will alert Grunt B and B will Alert the C so on and so forth; they will try to group together if they detect a hunter's presence and will attack in rallies instead of individually, that way they'll pose more of a threat and will be harder to deal with, and to stop them from overpowering hunters all the time, a hunter has a 2 second time frame to kill the grunt before they can alert other grunts nearby; the alert radius should be no further than 15m.
And to make grunts more rewarding, upon death they could drop a moneybag, similar to the moneybags you can find around the map (2% chance to drop)."

@brisk timber why not?

[carmine needle]

I'd like to see grunts that carry ammo boxes... dunno about them alerting other grunts tho, we've got enough sound traps. Be cool to see them drop pouches tho, would make sense. Not everything in the map needs to be a threat, imo. Sure, they can be annoying, but in a gunfight they can make a difference and hell, I've used them to track other hunter's locations. The AI is supposed to be annoying, and you need a super easy and common AI to create a base level for the rest.

[celest spindle]

Theyre still weak asf but theyre gonna be grouped up now

[carmine needle]

Could just have bigger bunches of them to solve that

groups of 5/6 around horses, in houses, etc...

[celest spindle]

These dont make sound that alerts other hunters, its like a special type of grunt they have that alerts their own species

By grunt i dont mean a new zombie, an actual grunting noise

@brisk timber hellooo?

[carmine needle]

Yeah, I figured that, but there would still be an audible sound- they already make one if you aggro them

just take that and have it trigger other grunts in a local area?

That may already be a thing they do, honestly not sure if grunts can trigger grunts... like if I aggro a guy eating a horse and his hissing noise triggers another dude eating mud a few meters over

I could see them adding more grunts to packs/buildings being a viable way to make them more threatening

[celest spindle]

Well that is what it is, you cant both

[celest spindle]

What way do you suggest? with telepathy?

[brisk timber]

Because i think grunts are meant to be weak
Not everything has to be a imminent thread. Dont change what isnt broken.

[celest spindle]

They are still weak asf like i said, theyre just in a pack

[brisk timber]

Yea no ill pass

[celest spindle]

Just like how there was that one saying "monke together stronk"

[brisk timber]

Grunts are fine

[celest spindle]

They really arent

[brisk timber]

Subjective

I think they do what they are meant to do

[carmine needle]

I do agree with Rakki on this. I don't see any real issue with them. I'd be cool with them adding chances for them to spawn in bigger numbers in areas, but I don't want their whole mechanic to be changed

[celest spindle]

Ight fine then how about this alternate one, theres a decent chance for grunts to be grouped together around an important area such as where hunters usually pass by or around clues, kind of protecting it

And to get said clue you should either use serpent or kill around 15 grunts

[brisk timber]

You start to sound like you wanna change stuff for the sake of changing stuff

[celest spindle]

???

[craggy pike]

Most AI would be scarier if they had better pathing. You can make hellhounds useless if you wiggle around a tree

[carmine needle]

Lemme wiggle in peace XD

[craggy pike]

Wigglers will be hell-hounded

[celest spindle]

Well finall was right, you cant make everyone happy

I'll stick to things i think is right and try my best to not affect their way of gameplay or how they behave

[carmine needle]

Nooooooo! My worst enemy!

[craggy pike]

I'd like to see either a greater volume of grunts or more variety, maybe have some that can crawl or pop out of the ground

[celest spindle]

Also how about you come up with some ideas to change said AI?

[carmine needle]

Lol. Part of the whole game lore is that the grunts are just shells... same as everything else. puppeted by the will of the sculptor and the insects/disease, while the OG person is locked in, watching but unable to do anything while their body moves about. On that front, I agree that having odds of more grunts spawn would be cool- but I've also had to kill tons at some locations (looking at you, kingsnake) so could already be in place for RNG

[craggy pike]

That thing AI do where they lose sight and swivel their head could go. I'd rather they be smart and relentless chasers

[celest spindle]

"Instead of the grunts being spread out so far from each other, you could have them be kind of grouped up, like blocking or patroling a very active area, for example places where most hunters will go through or walk by if they have anything to do in said location or being around clues or points of interests such as event altars.
And they could also move as groups, for example moving across fields or jungles as a 10 or 30 rally of grunts, something similar from The Walking Dead series."

The current and final suggestion that im gonna include in my AI change suggestion list ^

[celest spindle]

Also that is literally zombie lore

Just shaken up a bit

[carmine needle]

Mmmmm not a huge fan of that many, or of them moving around. If I see 10 grunts chilling around an altar, and I know there are still active teams, I'm not going to bother with that altar. The reward is not worth the lost health. I already maintain serpent on any build I run- too much fun yoinking bounties from teams not paying attention, plus great when the clue is guarded/in a dumb spot that's likely to get me headshot. I don't see why there needs to be such a drastic change- we have AI that are challenging. there needs to be weak ones to balance. Yes, they are still weak, but 10-30 of them no longer are weak. You can only kill so many, and with self necro I bring concertina over fire, which would be my answer to this.

Or lost ammo. Even with a bomblance I'd be out of stamina before I finished off 10, depending on how they are clumped up.

But hey, drop it into the suggestions and maybe they'll add it!

[celest spindle]

Yeah tbh 30 does sound like a alot

What about 5-15?

[celest spindle]

Also are Hives ok in a good way or a bad way?

[carmine needle]

Closer to what I'd call a logical amount. If you scattered them across a building, but had them all trigger when you fill the noise bar, could be neat

Hives? Hives are fine

[celest spindle]

So its just armored and grunts then

Also grunts could be apart by like 2-7 meters

[carmine needle]

Suggest what you want to suggest my guy, I think most folks don't have any real issue with any of the AI

[celest spindle]

I usually try to suggest things that make most possible amount of people happy

Well, the suggestion is up

[open carbon]

I usually do the opposite, because I think people should feel like the game hates them 😈

@trail oasis just my 2 cents.. I think the whole idea behind self-res is to backstab

[queen jungle]

OK in a good way I'd say.

[open carbon]

They're annoying as heck, so yeah, definitely in a good way. Gotta stress that I'm saying this unironically because it sounds so much like sarcasm

[carmine needle]

I enjoy triggering them with the vet in another compound (same with immos) to draw attention or to mess with teams. They def serve their purpose

[brisk timber]

What?? Why?
I dont want them changed xD

[celest spindle]

I smell skill issue

[carmine needle]

? why is not wanting them changed a skill issue?

[open carbon]

Because they're too easy 😈

[craggy pike]

Armoreds in my opinion should be slow but tanky, right now those dudes can hustle

And one-shotting them with throwing axes is silly

[carmine needle]

That's the point... everything has it's nuances. The actual challenge/pressure comes from the bosses/other hunters. But having AI thrown in helps shuffle things up. It's not supposed to be dark souls.

[celest spindle]

Cuz they're afraid they wont have the skills to deal with tougher enemies

[open carbon]

But they're supposed to be deadly when you ignore them. I do get your point, I get killed by AI here and there already, but that really just comes down to me being careless and overconfident. I think being careless and overconfident should be punished like that. If you don't clear out the area you're fighting in, it should be your downfall. Just imo, ofc

[carmine needle]

Eh, i doubt that's why they don't agree. You say they are annoying now- how much more annoying would it be if you're stalled 1/2 to the bounty because you've got to kill 30 grunts?

Agreed.

[craggy pike]

Imagine if immolators revived phoenix-style

[carmine needle]

oof. or you can relight them via fire?

[open carbon]

Imagine Hellhounds actually taking off a limb when they manage to bite you

[carmine needle]

lol, that'd be a nightmare to code for tho

[open carbon]

Think of Kenshi when imagining how to keep moving after

[craggy pike]

Hunt: Fear and Hunger edition

[open carbon]

Imagine bosses actually being dangerous

[craggy pike]

That would be nice

[celest spindle]

💀

Theyre hell hounds not middle eastern dogs my guy

[craggy pike]

The butcher and spider are complete jokes. The spider is an unfunny joke

[open carbon]

Yeah

Assassin is a joke too

Axe-assin

[craggy pike]

He can be

[carmine needle]

But most stuff IS deadly when ignored (and if triggered). Hives, dogs, armoreds, even grunts can be a threat if you're mid fight and they hit you at a shitty time. Will agree the bosses aren't bad, but I have no desire to spent 20min fighting the boss.

I already hate chasing the assassin or praying to the spider to get out of the roof

[craggy pike]

Maybe they could give him a damaging aoe while he's cloning to prevent him from getting axed to death

[open carbon]

And that's where our opinions diverge, bc I still think they're too forgiving as long as you're not too stoned or drunk while playing

[celest spindle]

Or make the cockroaches in your face actually do something other than obstruct vision

[carmine needle]

Bosses or AI?

[open carbon]

AI

Bosses too of course, but they're way worse than AI in that regard xD

[willow crater]

Honestly I disagree hard with these statements, hunt is not a PVE game, additionally part of the "fantasy" of the game is that you're a professional hunter that knows how to deal with these creatures, a seasoned hunter should have no issues killing a boss, they're not the actual threat, the other hunters are.

[carmine needle]

To me, it depends. Yes, If it's just me and I have the right gear, I can either avoid or kill everything. In a fight, the AI can be destructive, especially in trios, especially with several teams fighting. Adds another layer of chaos. Sure, you can argue it's skill, but I've seen plenty of folks trying to flank/move and trigger AI and get overwhelmed by them and also the other hunters. Heck, I've lost matches for the same reason myself.

Good point

[willow crater]

Also, increasing the difficulty of bosses is increasing the barrier of entry to the game, which is already high.

[celest spindle]

Then what about free hunters which are newbies

[carmine needle]

You could add a wildcard more where there are more AI

[open carbon]

Seasoned hunters have no issues killing either AI or bosses. For seasoned hunters, they're both little more than wear on your melee key.

[open carbon]

That's how it's supposed to be, but again, for seasoned hunters, it's not an issue at all, and it should be more of an issue

[keen oak]

Its a PvPvE game (note that the E part comes in second). I doubt there is a group of players large enough to advocate for more relevancy to the PvE side. Gunfights are the most entertaining part of this game by a landslide.

[open carbon]

Does anyone else think it's simply good manners to clear the boss compound of AI when your team arrives first? :D

[carmine needle]

nope lol, those are my alert dogs

[queen jungle]

Nah, leave that stuff be for those who come after you

[willow crater]

It's a bad Idea, if you can avoid Killing AI they can be your alarms/sound traps for enemy hunters

[open carbon]

I want there to be a thing like "Hunter's etiquette" xD

[keen oak]

I dare say Hunt thrives and brings more and more players solely because of its (unique) cowboy gunplay. PvE has very little to do with it

[worthy knoll]

Think about it Like this, considering everyone Takes a medkit, If you Take those Tools to Deal With AI you have one Slot left. Zero when you Bring chokes for teams and dont Bring chokebolts.
The AI Limits the was you Play or is inherently more Dangerous when you decide to Bring Double traps or something.

[carmine needle]

Actively try to kill as few AI as I can, until the map is cleared. Will take out roof hives, have had too many times where smart teams use them as hive bombs

[willow crater]

You can't ask people how to play in this game, you play however you want for whatever your objective is

[carmine needle]

by all means tho, clear the compound for me

[open carbon]

Like, there's these moments where you have a solo VOIPing your team offering some sort of agreement. It should just be common deceny to offer them a duel for one of the tokens at that point xD

[carmine needle]

I will appreciate it as the attcking team

[open carbon]

I would too xD

[willow crater]

Agree, one of the purposes of AI is to drain resources if not handled correctly, they're a "skillcheck" of sorts. They can also work as zoning tools, if there's a meathead by the door the enemy team would be less likely to be camping that one entrance.

[open carbon]

Hunter melee duels should be sth everyone stops to watch :D

I'm just horsin' around at this point

[worthy knoll]

I for one Always Take the Same Tools: knuckle knife, medkit, chokes, axes. I have No Problem with AI but my Options are Limited, so No Barrel memes for example.

[keen oak]

Its getting hard to bm these days. From my experience suprisingly a lot of people mute communications or just dont wanna do the funny stuff

[open carbon]

We gotta foster a healthy hunter metaculture, I still think way too many people take the game too seriously

[open carbon]

Oh yeah that's so true

[willow crater]

also Knuckle knife is worse than knife for PVP, so it's also affecting your combat abilities. Which is good

[open carbon]

Where are the Derringer Bros when you need them

Want them to serve me duck soup in Lockbay again

[keen oak]

I miss medkit fights

[willow crater]

Eh, don't wanna deal with other people's bullshit, it's not good for mental.

[open carbon]

In my experience, most comms in Hunt are actually surprisingly non-toxic for a PvP game

[keen oak]

Age average is higher

[willow crater]

Agree, but one bad interaction can make me stop playing for the day.

[open carbon]

I usually just VOIP the tusken scream if it fits

The thing about VOIP in Hunt is... It's distracting if it's funny

Which gives you tactical options

Another layer of chaos

[carmine needle]

I enjoy a good battle cry when chasing someone with a saber/lance

Also have teamed up a few times with other teams for quest stuff, haven;t had a bad time with that

[open carbon]

"MURICA!!!"

[keen oak]

Same here, particularly with Monroe or Granny skin

Fits

[carmine needle]

ha! "GRANNY HAS SNACKS FOR YOU!"

[open carbon]

We tend to do themes

[keen oak]

One of my guys plays Granny with the Executioneers Axe pretty much half the time

[open carbon]

2 Hail Mary, 1 Reverend, Worms holy grenade "Halleluja" on Soundboard. ChArLiE's AnGeLs and then we convert people

[carmine needle]

I did drag an immolator into a boss lair that was banishing (partner had been downed and burned) and ran around moses screaming "my problem is your problem" and managed to stab the other team to death with saber due to the confusion of the yelling and the pissed immolator

[keen oak]

Getting sliced in half by a bloodthristy gam-gam is where the immersion kicks in

[carmine needle]

anyway. not much feedback going on now lol

[celest spindle]

@craggy pike the thing with assassin is that its easy to kill it in trios or duos, but as a solo player its pretty dang hard if you're not careful

[craggy pike]

Not true

[open carbon]

That's how I like it 💚

[craggy pike]

It's as easy as a stamina shot and finding an axe

[carmine needle]

it was great. My duo partner was stunned.

[craggy pike]

You can heavy swing and it'll break the clones and hit him in the same swing, do that 20 times and it's dead

[keen oak]

Assassin is very easy to pop even for a solo

[open carbon]

It's the discussion of feedback here, not feedback itself. Akshually xD But we're bouncing ideas off each other, which is still a necessary process

[celest spindle]

Not everybody brings stamina shot tho, and me and my squad have been killed because of assassin's attacks because we were not prepared enough

[open carbon]

That way we cultivate great ideas that end up in the actual suggestions

[carmine needle]

true, jsut wary of the mods getting annoyed

[open carbon]

The mods usually join tbf xD

[celest spindle]

Those dang 🟥s!

[keen oak]

The only boss that can be a drag for a solo is the spider because it moves around too much, but sticky fixes that.

[celest spindle]

Yeah solos usually have stickies

[carmine needle]

I would love for them to look at the spider, depending on the location it's a b*tch to chase down, even with a sticky

[open carbon]

Preparedness is important :P I wouldn't leave the house without a stamina shot, it's the first thing I unlock after prestiging ^^

[craggy pike]

I hate spider for how long it just lingers

And then moves nonsensically

[carmine needle]

I don't care for it's love of being in the rafters for 300 years skittering at me

[open carbon]

Yeah especially with buildings that got roofs that are two stories high

It just hangs up there

[carmine needle]

yarp. and it's always when I have a saber

I can feel it giving me the middle finger

[craggy pike]

I'm going to abuse Stamina shots/conduit before Crytek realizes how it trivializes so much of their game

[open carbon]

Butcher though desperately needs it's pathfinding fixed too

[carmine needle]

You wanna stab me? bet. I'll sit up here and make noises

[craggy pike]

Butcher could use a full rework

[keen oak]

It mos def should be more aggro.

[open carbon]

They're well aware, that's why they nerfed the stam shot to half it's duration a while back

[celest spindle]

I still remember that 1 day me and axe man and drip hunter were running axes, we found butcher right where we spawned, axed him down in 14.3 seconds, axe man counted xD

[carmine needle]

Assassin is just annoying cause my team ADHDs out and doesn't stick together and thus he bounces around

[open carbon]

Take your meds! xD

[craggy pike]

Greyhound, Adrenaline, Determination are all useless with Stamina boosts existing

[celest spindle]

Meds dont really help ADHD that much

[carmine needle]

But there needs to be levels of difficulty on the bosses as well- be cool if they could make the bosses harder depending on the hunter skill levels tho the whole MMR thing is a mess i don't wanna touch

[keen oak]

You can also argue that stam shots are not so much worth it either because Conduit exists.

Stamshots only shine in long ass games

[celest spindle]

Or make the boss enter different phases if defeated too quickly?

[craggy pike]

Yeah, I have to say Stamina boost instead of stamina shot from now on because of that

[celest spindle]

Nvm that wouldnt work

@craggy pike the worst thing on the assassin is the damage immunity it has, if it didnt have that then it would've been fine

Wait you wanted it buffed

I forgor

[craggy pike]

Bosses are meant to draw hunters in, I just think it's a little lame how non-threatening they are and how quickly you can kill them

[celest spindle]

If i buy stamina shots i usually want to use them when im chasing a team, preferably a bounty team but i always use it so early

[keen oak]

Bossess the way they are now are just hotspots

For PvP

[craggy pike]

Might as well change them to banish pits

[keen oak]

Lol

[celest spindle]

And the fact that not even monsters pose a threat to humanity but humanity poses a threat to itself really says something, even if this isnt the lore or topic

[craggy pike]

True, we have all these lore entries about how deadly these monsters are but they job to the greenest hunters out there

At least Rotjaw can hit like a truck and double tap a solo, which is funny

[celest spindle]

Still very easily avoidable

Like grab a sledgehammer and whack rotjaw 3 times and its dead

[craggy pike]

Yep, pretty sad

[keen oak]

Tbf rotjaw is supposed to be easier

Being in the open and all

[craggy pike]

It is yah

I can't fault that one because it's clearly designed to encourage open warfare

[keen oak]

If it wasnt then challenging teams would have it gravy

[celest spindle]

Fuckin hell

Easy this easy that

Do yall want your bullets to be homing missles aswell?

Feed the bounty to yall by spoon?

Like fr cmon xD

There has to be some difficulty factor here

[keen oak]

Goobert keep in mind rotjae is in the open. If its too strong then challengers have it too easy

Better to advocate for compound bossess being more difficult

Which again could make it too gravy for shotgunners

Sensitive area

[celest spindle]

Yeah but that doesnt pose much of a threat considering the rain aspect rotjaw comes with, its basically the same as indoors

[keen oak]

Argumentative I'd say

You have much less cover

[craggy pike]

I imagine once the event is over people will complain about Rotjaw if she appears during daytime maps and when mariner is gone

[celest spindle]

This is #feedback-discussion not #feedback-argument

Finally got that joke out

[celest spindle]

Wont matter if you can camp a bush the same

I dont even use mariner and rotjaw is still pretty dang easy

Another factor that makes rotjaw incredibly easy is the fact that she spawns around wagons most of the time

[keen oak]

What is the range of hunters detection for a wild target anyway?

[unborn dagger]

It'd be weird to see rotjaw in a standard contract than the wild contract so i hope it stays in there

[celest spindle]

150 meters i believe?

[celest spindle]

2 normal bosses and 1 rotjaw, why not?

[craggy pike]

I feel like they might stick to single bounty and roaming boss in the future

[celest spindle]

That would heavily suck ass

Like as of now its not worth going after rotjaw, unless they increase the reward in the future

[craggy pike]

It's a lot of money for solos

[celest spindle]

Eh

[craggy pike]

I've been enjoying single bounty, it makes trio games higher actioned

[celest spindle]

So far for a few months crytek has been only helping mostly the solo players rather than the team players

[keen oak]

Its worth for solos or for a quick banish post fight if you lost bars

[craggy pike]

Before with two bounties you would have one trio grab one uncontested while 3 teams fought over the other

[celest spindle]

A poor man's reward basically

[keen oak]

Beetle

[celest spindle]

Wasnt beetle introducing around like a year ago now?

[keen oak]

Yeah js

[celest spindle]

8 months or somethin

[craggy pike]

It was only a few updates ago

[keen oak]

Still solos do have it gravy now

[craggy pike]

Crytek is slow

Yeah it's much easier to be a solo now, as a solo

[keen oak]

I dare say that a 6star solo is smurfing if vs trios but people seem to disagree

[celest spindle]

Rotjaw only makes games for solos significantly easier, i doibt they'll be happy with a rotjaw bounty, since they have 10 seconds of darksight they could use that to their advantage and raid the normal boss

[craggy pike]

They really shouldn't get to have their match MMR dropped anymore

[celest spindle]

Thats a double edged sword

Because everyone would eventually become 6 stars then

[keen oak]

I dont think you get his point

[craggy pike]

That's not what I mean

[celest spindle]

Oh

[craggy pike]

A 4 star solo with all the tools they have now shouldn't get to stomp a trio of 3 stars

[celest spindle]

Go on

[craggy pike]

Like when you queue it tells you what your MMR is, and then it also tells you what your match MMR is, which is a whole star lower

[celest spindle]

The issue here isnt the player mmr, its the team mmr, thats causing all these issues with star differences and what not

Stupid lag

[keen oak]

In essence the way solo works now favors higher elo players heavily. Playing solo when youre 4star or lower is something I dont recommend unless vs duos.

Whilst an experienced 6star will have paid actors against him pretty much half the time.

[celest spindle]

Yea that

My god it takes a whole minute to send messages

Paid actors 💀

[keen oak]

I know its a bit demeaning but you get my point

[celest spindle]

My 3 star ego is in shatters

[keen oak]

Apologies

[celest spindle]

Everything would be fine if there wasnt a team mmr fr

[keen oak]

I think that the way brackets work is more of an issue than the mmr itself

Especially for less populated regions

Like OCE, they are fucked xD

Brackets should probably just get removed entirely and the mm itself should work as before. Prioritizing even matches over the full ones. I dont mind waiting extra minute or two in the queue.

Then we remove the visible star system entirely.

And its gravy

[tribal wyvern]

Just fyi with team mmr, you cannot have a balanced team mmr & also have "i wanna play with my friends."
Its 1 or the other.

A balanced team mmr, would not allow 5star to queue with 6 or 4 & so on.

[brisk timber]

Tbf teams especially trios have a fairly easy time. Getting hands on bounty in trios with 2 bosses is way easier then playing solo or duos where you potentially have to share the cake with many more parties to begin with

Solos needed that boost

[celest spindle]

Trios always have had an easy time

[brisk timber]

And buffing bosses is a complicated concept.
If you buff them mechanically people fairly quickly adapt and at that point its just working a checklist down like now.

You could inflate the numbers like health or damage which would make it riskier. But for veterans that wouldnt change things aswell.

Theres hardly a way to make bosses harder which people wouldnt quickly adapt to.
Prolonging the fight would make people only complain that they get jumped by other teams during boss. So nobody want to get inside boss lair.

The only thing that would make bosses challenging would be reaction time checks like evading hits and stuff.
But thats hard to do in shooters and tis no dark souls

[dull mason]

With a small gap like that I think it can be mostly balanced

I think that they should separate MMR more though, 6 stars just isn't enough, esp since almost everyone is in 3 of them.

[celest spindle]

Natural and passive dangers within the boss layer
For example:
Butcher having hot hook hanging from the ceiling that deal damage and make noise
Assassin having egg-like traps set around where if you get too near they explode and deal a decent damage
Scrapbeak is fine cuz it throws traps on its own
Spider having cobwebs around which slows your movement unless slashed away with a weapon or melee tool

[celest spindle]

Im actually gonna suggest this

[brisk timber]

Hm thats actually something i havent thought about. Sounds nice tho

[keen oak]

I dare say Scrapbeak is the hardest boss in a sense that he is the easiest one for the challenging team to rush and punish people inside the boss lair

[celest spindle]

Yeah even i was amazed by the idea i came up with, just suggested it xD

[dull mason]

I would be happy with them adding more types of attacks that to the bosses arsenals, but idk how crazy I want them to go with it.

A lot of compounds you have very little room to work with if people show up while you're fighting boss

Like in Arden Parish you only have that one side entrance with the double doors and the big hole in the wall on the opposite side in terms of not taking boss aggro

[brisk timber]

Yea scrapbeak was actually designed pretty good
The concertina throwing adds some sort of extra parcour elements and dangers
Sure veterans learn to play around that or even use it to guard the compound
But its a nice skill check the other bosses could have more of

[dull mason]

Which can be really claustrophobic esp with bosses like assassin

[brisk timber]

The spider i think is the worst offender

Bland boring outright obnoxious

[keen oak]

My thoughts exactly

[celest spindle]

Meanwhile me getting my ass whooped when butcher does a 180 backward side kick spin to my stomach, shattering my spinal cord and several ribs aswell as breaking the wall he kicked me towards causing more catastrophic internal damage:

[keen oak]

Spider should mos def be running away less and going on the offence more in its non-enraged state.

The part when it sometimes just lingers on the ceilling and does nothing is mundane

[craggy pike]

Or how its only attack is to spit poison and to tackle you after a 20 minute delay

[brisk timber]

Or like a mechanic to chop off a leg or two to make it run less. Put the axes and hammers to use

[craggy pike]

If you hack off enough limbs it starts to run around like a person again

[keen oak]

Butcher is also dead easy to chop up even for a solo. You can legit do the boss in under a minute if you move right and have stam

[brisk timber]

Reminds me of resident evil 4 sherrif

[keen oak]

Interesting

[craggy pike]

Butcher is definitely the most pathetic

That dude should hit harder, be way more aggressive, and not do that thing where he just runs a specific path, ignoring any hunters

[keen oak]

Yeah it should do more damage and track more

Its oblivious sometimes

[craggy pike]

Imagine if the compound he was in was lit up like the inferno wildcard

Once the fight starts at least

[keen oak]

Easy to find tho

Unless you skip the smoke

[craggy pike]

I would

Hated that pillar smoke

[keen oak]

But all in all the "legacy" bosses are in a dire need of a rework

Both of them

[celest spindle]

Do the boss?! 😳

[keen oak]

Wdym

[brisk timber]

It was a bad joke...

[celest spindle]

Nvm
You're too innocent to understand

[brisk timber]

[celest spindle]

Very

[keen oak]

Ah ok

I am slow

Got it now

[celest spindle]

I have an idea

[open carbon]

@celest spindle I actually think there's a simple solution to making the bosses more challenging without actually buffing the bosses themselves. Just make random floor boards break and have hunters get stuck for just a second or two. It would completely change the dynamic

[celest spindle]

Bootcher should release some "toxic fumes" once in a while which deals passive damage overtime for 10 seconds

[open carbon]

Flame thrower

[celest spindle]

[celest spindle]

Hell nah

Hunt: Misery

[craggy pike]

Butcher fire trails could stick around until it's killed

Wouldn't make him any harder though

[open carbon]

It would facilitate more conscious boss-fighting without the bosses actually changing but they become more dangerous if you are careless

Like, you can get out of the cracked board faster if you crouch and vault for example, while when trying to sprint, it'll make you stumble and take longer to get back up

[carmine needle]

Hard pass. I could agree with some changes to the boss dynamic- spider "webs", roach bombs, etc... because scrapbeak's concertina is murderous if you're not paying attention. But the bosses still aren'y meant to be super challenging, fighting other hunters for the bounty is.

If it's not something I can see/avoid and just happens, regardless of what I do, then it's a bad mechanic

[open carbon]

Scrapbeak is the only boss that poses any sort of challenge

[carmine needle]

I will agree on that

[open carbon]

The others are just... backdrop

[carmine needle]

Eh, they can have their moments, but yeah, they aren't hard to kill, esp if you bring the right gear. But again, they aren't the point.

[willow crater]

I think the mechanics are there, it's just that the way they aggro makes them very uninteractable when a fight is going on

Spider likes to hide like a mf

[carmine needle]

^

[willow crater]

assassin never shows up if there's more than one person

[open carbon]

Another option would be the boss not de-aggroing once someone started fighting them. It's so boring that you can just disengage from the boss fight to go and take care of an enemy team

[willow crater]

and butcher struggles staying alive longer than 2.5 seconds

[carmine needle]

They could get some stuff changed for QOL, especially Assassin/Spider, the whole "run away for 90% of the fight" thing gets old

[willow crater]

If anything butcher is the only one that needs to be more spammy with their ranged attack

[open carbon]

Have the hunters commit to the boss fight or the boss just heals up

[carmine needle]

Oo, that would be interesting

[willow crater]

Honestly not a bad change

[carmine needle]

wouldnt change... much tho

you fight boss, team shows, kill team, o noes still have to fight boss

[open carbon]

Not much but it changes the incentives and at least makes players consider, even if just for a millisec, whether to engage the boss now or later

[carmine needle]

True

IDK, I'm the bosskiller of my group, they help but my love of the lance means they usually chill while i do my thing

[keen oak]

Fighting the butcher should not revovle around "guys who has stam? Found an axe"

[carmine needle]

for trios, wouldn't change that much

eh, could be said for really any of them

[keen oak]

Butcher specifically tho. Its the easiest one to chop

Assassin can run, spider can run. Butcher just mashes, you run around him and banish

[carmine needle]

trap the assassin in his splitting animation, get lucky on the spider getting stuck, keep hitting scrappy...

true

he is the intro level boss tho, no?

[keen oak]

Thats what we would like to know as well

[carmine needle]

Not disagreeing that he couldn't use some lov

[keen oak]

If its intended to have some bosses easier and some harder

[carmine needle]

Will admit I've not done the new tutorial, but he was the boss on the OG ones

which leads me to think he was always meant to be slightly easier

but dunno for a fact

[keen oak]

But Butcher specifically is easy af. Even a 2star player can be taught the strat for it in no-time.

[carmine needle]

true

I'd rather see QOL for assassin/spider over butcher overhaul.

What would you change for him? throw more fire? bump up health?

[keen oak]

It just makes sense for him to at least hit a bit harder so that even if you have the stam you need to back up at least once before banish

And spider should be less idle

[carmine needle]

could give him the aoe fire from the immos

maybe less intense, but be more a threat to just standing next to him

[keen oak]

Ok fk enough PvE talk

[carmine needle]

lol

[keen oak]

Drilling should have smoother barrel change

Let the "it's too expensive" fiesta begin

https://tenor.com/view/excited-so-drums-gif-11982656

[carmine needle]

lol have no dogs in this fight, have it unlocked but not touched it at all

[keen oak]

Youre missing out imo

Unless you dont like double barrels

[carmine needle]

yeah, not a big fan

If im not running lance, it's a cenny

[keen oak]

For me its the cherry on top of cowboy gunplay

[carmine needle]

or a lebel if I'm feeling fancy

noted

[keen oak]

I like cenntenials audio

It has that oompf to it

Satisfying

[carmine needle]

will strap it to my immortal Gar lol, see how it plays. I do enjoy the uppermat, blasted a poor dude's face right off the other night, felt soo good

[keen oak]

Upmat is great head clicker

450 m/s for a handgun is a lot

[carmine needle]

feels meaty. haven't spent much time with it yet. We did die to a solo with a drilling, but I'm the only one to have it unlocked in my group so far, and it's not my normal gamestyle

can't gauge the whole price thing yet tho, have only seen the one so far

[keen oak]

So from my understanding the price is actually ok

People want it cheaper and the argument is to compare it spec for spec with rifles or shotguns forgetting that Drilling is both

[carmine needle]

gotcha. I'm sure Crytek will change the price if they see it needs it, just like they have for other guns in the past

[dull mason]

I see that the convo has moved on, but I don't think it was mentioned that you can actually kill butcher before his first enrage fully triggers if you are using bomb lance

[keen oak]

Well economy-wise I don't trust them as much, but I have faith it will improve with time.

[carmine needle]

true. They seem to mess with em every once in a while. Kinda expecting my lance to go up since it's gotten what to me has been a big buff with the duo ammos. seem to swing hard into the overly expensive then drop it into a more reasonable range. shall see tho

[hardy coral]

Drilling just needs the buckshot+flechette fixed and a staged reload.

Also like 410-430 M/S velocity on both special ammos.

[keen oak]

Fixed?

[hardy coral]

The buckshot has odd spread and the flechette is basically useless.

[keen oak]

Buckshot has 10m OHK which is more than enough since its a rifle and flechette is a meme across the board

[hardy coral]

The slugs kill to 15. Flechette is good on other shotguns but awkward.

[keen oak]

Flechette is a skill/perk check for teams or a solo stomper. Little use otherwise

[pure grove]

If you're gonna buff any boss, don't buff assassin, buff butcher

[open carbon]

Or just buff Scrapbeak and make it oneshot hunters

If they're so stupid to let themselves get hit 😈

[hardy coral]

I don't get the issue with red-revives since they removed the ability to necro them. It's super risky and having to give up a bar to res a burned out teammate is too big a cost.

[outer wedge]

Normally redskull-revives are a problem within teams that hard camp boss with concertinas and 1 shot closes range weapons, and if you are a long range guy and kill them on peaks and its hard to push in, it generates a crazy amount of revives.. i've been in a lot of games like that.. getting 10+ kills from 1 team, it is a small % overall, but, sometimes it becomes stupid.

ofc if you are also a shotgun/xbow guy u always can push in and pray for RNGJesus.

i got that from 4.5/5* witch bomblances/xbows to 6* sweats with avtos.. so.. it becomes real hard to push teams that abuse that kind of game play.. low %, but still..

[hardy coral]

A shotgun player or such that is oneshottable loses a lot of their power.

[prime ibex]

@trail oasis Bro, just find a couple bear traps or set their body on fire, or maybe just full empty their guns so they are forced to scavenge ammo crates. There's more shit you could do than just sit and watch.

[trail oasis]

Why should we focus all our energy to trap a dead body its a hunt game not a graveyard typhoon 2.0

The solo revive is a horrible design

[prime ibex]

I play solo, and had to give up on 2-3 tries. Bring fuckin traps or a concertina bomb + traps. Again, could also just waste all their ammo that would take about a minute, forcing their next revive to hit a refill or scav for ammo boxes.

[trail oasis]

You kinda describe why solo res is horrible. We wanna play the game not wasting our precious consumavle and time around a dead body. I play solo 50% of time and never use necro this concept is just not hunt and break the game immersion and design. Cobsumable should be used to fight not to waste on dead bodies

Also concertina is not avail after a while when u prestige the only thing avail is fire and it take forever to wait the body to burn all the way. Waiting 5mi. On a burning body is so ridiculous

[dull mason]

If you're in a compound a bear trap and/or lantern should be easy to find, and it's really not that big of a deal using consumables to stop revives from happening. If I kill someone and their body falls behind cover I will cock a nade when I hear a teammate run to them so that I can stop the revive, same principle as tossing a Molotov on a corpse imo.

Also packmule is goated perk

[unborn dagger]

It do

[prime ibex]

Fuckin... Don't prestige then??? At this point it's coming off as whining, which my part ends here. gl ng

[trail oasis]

Omg i will never understand how peoples can fight to save a gamebreaking mechanic that pissoff so many players like that

At this point solo player shoukd get matched with solo only. So they would pissoff each others obly

[little jackal]

yeah for some reason a lot of people confuse "tedious" with "hard" and keep giving you a lesson on how to fight dead bodies

Crytek had plenty of feedback on this matter tho, and still decided to keep the thing, so I don't see much point in bitching about it now

[keen oak]

It should be adjusted but removing it entirely isn't the right move imo

A metric fk ton of people wanted the solo rez to come to gameplay loop after the inferno event

If it was balanced better from the start we wouldn't be even discussing this now

[azure elm]

I mean, it doesn’t take long to trap a body or find a lantern to burn, or like it was mentioned above, full empty their guns, I always forget about that.

[keen oak]

And if it disappears entirely it will be a feedback slaughter

[trail oasis]

Its not the point

[keen oak]

What is your point then

[trail oasis]

Being to stop playing the game to watch a body is not fub

[dull mason]

I cannot understand how do many people struggle with solos, the downside of having 2 less people is so huge.

[trail oasis]

A problem that need to be adressed

[keen oak]

Its part of the game tho

[trail oasis]

No its not

[azure elm]

You don’t have to stop playing the game. Trap it, burn it, loot it, move on.

[trail oasis]

Uts been newly added

[dull mason]

Just look at everyone that has been complaining non stop about not having duos vs duos in wildcard

[keen oak]

It is tho. Its in the game therefore its a part of it

[azure elm]

Newly added, means it’s part of the game.

[trail oasis]

Lol

[dull mason]

And duo vs trio is way easier than solo vs trio

[trail oasis]

Solo have huge reward from leaving with bounty

Theres should be the only advantage

[dull mason]

Solo has huge reward because the bounty isn't split 3 ways, it's split 1 way...

Also, I could be wrong, but I feel like not many people play for the actual bounty rewards

That's the case for me personally.

[azure elm]

Bounties aren’t split tho.

[keen oak]

The are only two issued I see with solos atm:

1. Solo res needs tuning
2. Solo matchmaking favours players with higher mmr.

The rest for me is noise

[trail oasis]

Res should be disabled after a body is looted tbh anything that dt force us to waste all consumable or force us to stop playing the game to put all our attention over dead bodies

[hardy coral]

It should be a last ditch combat thing instead of a way to easily recover your hunter by waiting.

[azure elm]

The only thing I can see is that the res timer needs to be tuned but I think it’s fine. Give the solo a slight advantage. If you don’t wait for that solo to burn or trap it or have any sort of precaution, that’s on you. Why is that on the solo?

[hardy coral]

Solo shouldn't be viable, I don't like these solo traits.

[keen oak]

You're exaggerating buddy, but all in all solo res needs tunjng

[trail oasis]

I am not exagering.

[keen oak]

Ofc you are come on... all consumables?

Stop playing the game?

Thats just banter

[azure elm]

I don’t think I hardly use consumables on a solo. Just find a lantern or use a barrel or bring an immolator over and shoot him. There’s so many options.

[dull mason]

Maybe not, I thought that bounties were stagnant bit split depending on how many people were in your team (e.g., in a trio you get 33% of what a bounty would be as a solo).

[trail oasis]

Lol all these solo noob that need a stupid game mechanic that pissoff everyone just to feel overpowers seriously get good dont rely on fkin self res its so stupid and a waste of peoplea time

[keen oak]

XD

Bro is fumin

[dull mason]

You literally don't have to use any consumables or waste any time on a solo

drop a lantern, drop a bear trap, leave

It's not that big of a deal if one guy with <150 hp (likely 100 or less hp) gets up.

[queen jungle]

Drop a like and subscribe!

[azure elm]

Nah, it’s shared. Solos just get more because it’s a higher risk. It’s like if the Hunt fixer hired a solo hunter, and said I usually pay for trios to go in, so you get the full amount if you get me that token.

[azure elm]

Self res has only ever made the game more interesting for me. Never really pissed me off. It’s on me if he gets up and kills me. He did it right in that case not me.

[dull mason]

That was the rationale that I was trying to use so I don't know if we're both right and I was just explaining it poorly or perhaps a misunderstanding

[unborn smelt]

bounty isn't split

[dull mason]

It's all semantics in the end though, less players = more goodies

[unborn smelt]

on extraction one gets the amount the token says

[azure elm]

I understand the train of thought you had. I think it’s a common misconception that bounty is split but it’s not.

[dull mason]

But tokens themselves are worth less if you are in a trio is my point

idek anymore

[unborn smelt]

in a team you get the amount the token you carry says + whatever your teammates have in form of bounty

[dull mason]

I understand the mechanics regardless of how we get there

[azure elm]

They’re only worth less because you’re in a trio so hypothetically less risk less reward.

[unborn smelt]

but you need to extract as a group for that

so you don't get it if you take 2 diffrent extracts in the same team IIRC

[keen oak]

Tokens have fixed worth. Bonus changes depending on how you queue

Simply put

[unborn smelt]

Depends on how you look at it.

[azure elm]

That’s correct. If one part of the trio takes a token and leaves separately they just get the token amount for themselves. The other two will both receive the bounty for the token they extract.

[unborn smelt]

if a duo extracts two 200$ tokens, against duos they gain 400$ each for a total of 800$

[little jackal]

until it is

[unborn smelt]

if a trio extracts two 200$ tokens against trios they get 400$ each too - but for a total 1200$

[azure elm]

Exactly.

[unborn smelt]

so in that regard the trio gets more money out of the same tokens - but each individual player gets the same or even less if we assume duo's vs trios

[azure elm]

And a solo will get even more because of the solo v trio queue bonus.

[unborn smelt]

absolutely

but they will be unable to get the second token as a result of being a solo

[azure elm]

Right.

Unless they get a wild target token AND a boss target token. 🤪

[unborn smelt]

yes but then a trio could extract 3 tokes instead of the two a solo can

[azure elm]

Right.

[dull mason]

I can put it this way if it's easier, if you killed someone and you honestly don't think that you could kill them again, then sure, camp the body. If you just killed some random solo, maybe one or two got downed in the process, you should be fine. Make somewhat reasonable judgments on whether or not you can risk them standing up and being behind you in ~1 min.

after one death a solo is a one shot to the chest with most long ammo rifles which should be a big deal'

[unborn smelt]

also the reason they adopted the burning bug to a gameplay feature is precisely so you can put a timer on people

and if they are in water you can't stop a teammate from reviving them later either

which is the entire point of why burning became a thing

[azure elm]

Unless you got liquid fire.

[dull mason]

Don't think liquid fire will set them on fire

[unborn smelt]

that doesn't help

[azure elm]

I thought it did…

Oof.

[dull mason]

I believe the body is immune to fire if the water is deep enough

[azure elm]

I stand corrected.

[unborn smelt]

liquid firebombs create a burning patch on fire

[azure elm]

Good to know!

[dull mason]

I think liquid fire SHOULD burn corpses in water though, would love that.

[unborn smelt]

but they don't burn bodies in water

[azure elm]

Not sure why they wouldn’t, but now I know.

[keen oak]

Are you sure?

[dull mason]

Especially when someone dies in a small puddle and their teammates are passive

[unborn smelt]

yep

[azure elm]

Yeah, I just confirmed via a quick google search.

Not sure I’ve ever really been in that position so I just assumed they did.

[keen oak]

Well it should

[azure elm]

It definitely should.

[keen oak]

Otherwise its a borderline useless consumable

[azure elm]

Yeah…wait a minute. It doesn’t burn hunters at all in water? Or just downed hunters?

[unborn smelt]

it doesn't burn downed hunters

it still creates a puddle of burning oil above the water surface

[azure elm]

But if I throw it at a hunter I’m fighting, and they’re in water and alive, then they’ll burn?

[unborn smelt]

that should ignite AI and alive hunters just fine

[azure elm]

Got it, got it.

Thanks for that clarification.

[unborn smelt]

but they might get extinguished soon after if the walk through deep water

[azure elm]

Sure.

So it’s still pretty much useless. 😆

[unborn smelt]

well kind of on the same level as a regular fire bomb

[azure elm]

I mean as a separate consumable. Do they burn for the same amount of time?

[unborn smelt]

one one hand you can block extract with water which a regular firebomb can't - but you also can't cycle the liquid firebomb silently at a toolbox as it still explodes on contact with water

[unborn smelt]

yes - 2 min each

only the hellfire burns less

[azure elm]

Okay, so really LFB is pretty much situational, i.e. blocking boat extractions.

I guess you could say that the regular fire bomb is the useless one. LFB has more utility if needed.

[unborn smelt]

yes - it's basically a tiny upgrade over the regular fire bomb

because the upside of still blocking area in water is very situational

[azure elm]

Yeah. Never really thought of that much. I don’t use the firebombs unless I get them in-game.

[unborn smelt]

they usually are only used for instaburning anyway

because lanterns and chokes are everywhere anyway

[azure elm]

Yeah, pretty much all I use them for. At least I hold onto them incase I get into that situation, like discussed earlier, a solo is encountered.

[unborn smelt]

same reason the poison bomb is garbage for Area denial

people can just choke it away if they really need to

and trading one very limited consumable, vs 1 of two easily replaced tool charges is just a really bad trade

[azure elm]

Yeah. That’s why I always take dauntless. When they throw the choke close to the body, they don’t expect you to run through the flames to defuse it.

[unborn smelt]

i wouldn't do that myself...

loosing a bar is really bad if you fight long ammo

[azure elm]

Oh it’s such a clutch play. If you play it right you can get in and out of the flames without losing any bars.

[unborn smelt]

i'd rather wait out the choke and burn with one of the tonns of lanterns you find basically anywhere

[azure elm]

Just as good a play.

[unborn smelt]

I just really dislike the way fire works

(just to clarify - not the option to take a downed enemy out of the fight permanently - that's needed)

but i think burned health should just stay charred and be regenerated very slowly instead of being entirely lost (with the exception of all 150 HP being burned - then it shouldn't heal anymore what so ever,)

[azure elm]

That would be cool. Maybe an even slower regen if full bars are taken. If it’s just a partial bar it would be normal - the current regen rate.

[analog willow]

Interesting🤔

[azure elm]

You should put this into the suggestions channel.

[unborn smelt]

Diiba did a really long time ago

[azure elm]

DO IT AGAIN!! 🫵🏼

[unborn smelt]

was their idea but i liked it a lot

[azure elm]

Ahh I see. Great idea.

@analog parrot but it’s so passive. Play the game and you’ll find it. If you have teammates and they also pick them up, it will count as another. Most times you can get those challenges done with one envelope or a couple of purses.

[keen oak]

Bar loss system could use a rework in general.

[hardy coral]

I feel remedy will stay in the game but properly consume a trait.

[keen oak]

Its very situational still

[hardy coral]

It's not that hard to find a trait.

[keen oak]

Unless

We put traits on supply points

[hardy coral]

Just kill meatheads.

[keen oak]

Its droprate is meh

[hardy coral]

It's like 50/50.

[keen oak]

I dont know the numbers for sure but it seems considerably less to me

[pliant wren]

It is 50% chance, has been for a long time.

[peak radish]

https://tenor.com/view/pulp-fiction-wtf-huh-john-travolta-confused-gif-5521264

[open carbon]

Huh, someone blocking people who downvoted their idea before so they can't downvote them again. Very classy move

[karmic ivy]

Yeah, I ran into a guy around here, don't recall the name. "Venison prince" or... something...
They seem to do a similar thing, and they suggest quite a few controversial ideas. And block those who vote no. I think its pretty low. And I would think it best if blocking could have no effect in this case. I can see the why the problem exsits though.

[celest spindle]

well i'll be damned this actually did pretty well #game-ideas message

[west hill]

Yooooooo 33 upvotes for my Risen Cavalry WT idea?! Thanks, y'all

[celest spindle]

make it 34

oh wait i already upvoted, nvm xD

[bold valley]

@fair ether Thinking upping the power of a direct hit for flareguns, and giving them a burning AOE while they are in flight/actively burning, would help em. Fusees could also benefit from burning AOE. That way even near misses might still ignite your target

[fair ether]

yeah that's a good idea as well

[azure elm]

@trail oasis I just don’t think it’s gonna happen.

[trail oasis]

It need to happen.

[hot vigil]

It should happen

[trail oasis]

Or peoples like me will endup becoming casual or stop playing its a huuuuuge disagreement

[hot vigil]

It is wild how huge the pick up zone is for guns in this game

like why?!

[trail oasis]

For the gun pickup its been asked several time. Definatly need improvement on this side. Different ui or selection location on screen

[rotund obsidian]

it feels like the UI designer who chose the weapon swap location wasn't aware the game had a lowered crosshair lmao

[trail oasis]

Think they just havent tested it. Prob a diff person who took the decision from the one who designed it. A player would never have choosen this design

[last blaze]

@keen bolt the pax is great already any buff and it would be crazy

though I would love to see more variants for it like a long barrelled pax

[rotund obsidian]

i dunno about great

[hot vigil]

Pax is not great, it is a "mid gun", it is not the worst at anything, but also not the best.
Issue is that most game-plans usually doesn't really benefits of lacking specialization.
It is better to have higher fire-rate at short range and better damage retention at long range.
Doesn't matter the gun deals 110 damage or 97 damage, most of the time they both kills in two-taps to the upperbody and arms and most of the time they both 1-tap headshot.

[proud narwhal]

@hot vigil i got cucked by the pickup range today, tried stopping burning only to pick up the medium dragons breath romero that I killed with my bomblance, after I stopped the burning I went to pick up my bomblance to kill the butcher and get my bars back, but I was one tapped by a winnie who just got to compund.

Its so insane you cant rebind it to something else. There should be a key specifically for weapon swap ontop of the pickup range being smaller.

Had i not accidentally picked up his romero while trying to stop my burn i wouldve been able to kill the boss almost instantly and put up a fight against the team

[rotund obsidian]

you can rebind stopping bleed/burn, which alleviates part of it

[proud narwhal]

yeah i have debated but it ruins some flow as theres no key close enough to make it nice and fast, unless i sacrafcie a keybind on my mouse

It would be better to have a seperate button to swap guns since thats not particularly something you do with enemies around

[rotund obsidian]

i use b and it works well for me. I do think that there are flaws with the interaction system but i don't really think separating all the different inputs into different bindings is an ideal solution

[proud narwhal]

ooo b might actually be close enough

and stands for bleeding / burning xD

i dont think z is bound to anything either

[rotund obsidian]

I suppose the biggest flaw is that loot body/swap weapons is on the same input and can be fumbled, so i do see the value of that though

I use c for vaulting already, but yeah i don't think z is used

[proud narwhal]

my c is crouch, v is vault

though thats because my crouch is on my mouse instead

[steady vapor]

@keen bolt Pax niche is the best fanning in the game. They buffed it not too long ago. Try it its ridic.

[trail oasis]

@swift ferry wum by burn trait?

[rotund obsidian]

@swift ferry so that would include regular necro too, then? since it is the same trait

[trail oasis]

not sure i understand exactly the meaning but if he mean that the trait would burn his life even more to revive in order to make it being able to revive only once it would be awesome but already suggested and massively downvoted by the bushwarrior community

[rotund obsidian]

burn trait is what the new event traits are called, where they get removed after use

relentless, remedy, gunrunner, and death cheat (at least, it's supposed to get removed)

[trail oasis]

oh i see. thats would be the best possible fix ever

but expect a massive downvote like all the similar suggestion that i made ....

like tbh i dont even know why its a thing. solo got several trait buff and increased bounty reward and team mmr handicap...they should expect harder challenge and not rely on self res

[swift ferry]

Yes, thats the point. Now randoms will be less likely tk spend on it and people who are teaming through vc have to coordinate more to make it work.
Solos will get up, get fucked and that will be the end of it.

[rotund obsidian]

🤔 honestly not a bad thought, i do think necro is kinda obnoxious rn, especially since everyone has it + resilience always

if any existing trait deserves to be a burn trait it's necro

[trail oasis]

i totally agree with you

[trail oasis]

@sour nest pork fat would set you on fire like a human torch irl rofl

[open carbon]

If the suggestions would be reposted by a bot, that wouldn't be a problem. Very easy to implement, too. Bot copies message, deletes original, mentions the original poster in the copy and bam

@trail oasis "no more backstab" seems to be your main argument here, and it's unfortunate to say, but backstabbing was why self-res was introduced.

[trail oasis]

main argument is body camping. waste of time and consumable but cannot be skipped cuz the backstab possibility. its a combination of things that make this trait annoying. making it a burn trait is what need to be done.

[last blaze]

have you ever tried to burn fat?

[last blaze]

you can use fat and tallow to make crude candles

[last blaze]

that's grease not solid fat

[open carbon]

"Waste of time" is a non-argument, since there's many other ways to make sure they don't get back up with no need to wait until they burned out, and you've been told so in replies here more than once. You're just ignoring it and refuse to adapt. That's just lazy and won't fly here

[trail oasis]

explain how a solo can get rid of that without wasting consumable

[open carbon]

"wasting a consumable" .. Dude pls remove killing from the game it's a waste of bullets

[last blaze]

Just use a posion crossbow bolt

[trail oasis]

so being force to use a crap weapon or undesired consumable is an acceptable fix for you guys?

[hardy coral]

They don't last very long.

[open carbon]

Again. Self-res was introduced with backstabbing in mind. I'm not opposed to a upper time limit to revive after getting killed, but nerfing it so hard people can just ignore dead bodies, that's the opposite of what the trait was introduced for

[hardy coral]

You beat a solo self res by burning and sitting on him, if you don't wanna do that you can suffer the consequences.

[last blaze]

and you don't have to camp them you can just move on and let them rev and they will be easy to kill later as they're down a bar

you still have your keyboard you don't "have" to camp them

[open carbon]

Conc-bomb, death trap combo, meatheads ... so many options

Not getting creative with your options is a you-problem

[trail oasis]

it just need to become a burn trait. will be less apealing , only 1 res possible and mostly would happen less frequently. still gonna be a thing but not an everygame thing.

[last blaze]

another good way is to pick up their guns and shoot most or all of the ammo out of them

[trail oasis]

i well know all this lol why you guys think i dont know the game

[last blaze]

then why are you crying about it

[trail oasis]

its just not a gameplay design thats acceptable for me

[open carbon]

Limiting it to 1 res would bring back the disadvantage solos had bevore self res was introduced

[last blaze]

well the game does not have to be for everyone

[open carbon]

So won't happen

The game CAN'T be for everyone

[hardy coral]

tbh I think just changing it so it's disabled if you loot them would work. Could then even reduce the timer back to 5 seconds so it becomes more of an in-fight mechanic.

[open carbon]

No game can

[last blaze]

and if you're in a team how is 1 person reving with 1 bar down a problem

[trail oasis]

solo have perk bonus + huge bounty reward boost + MMR handicap its already enough solo player should be aware of the disadvantage

[last blaze]

A really funny thing I did once was take two swords into a game and when my teammate killed somone I would switch their guns with the two sord so when they got reved that's all they would have

[open carbon]

Exactly. They're making it sound as if being solo would give you an advantage just by being solo. If @trail oasis would be asking for "one revive only" for teams, that would be more appropriate, because they gain much more from rezzing/necroing their teammates more than once

[trail oasis]

i am a solo player

[last blaze]

THEN WHY are you comlaining XD

[trail oasis]

because i know exactly how dumb it is

[last blaze]

I've never have a problem with solos

just light them on fire or something

[open carbon]

Two reasons. Either it's a lie or they are actually believe they're at an incredible advantage as a solo, the way things are

[last blaze]

even if they do res it's just another kill for me

[trail oasis]

because i play solo and have low mmr i have solo res warrior every game. that why it become very annoying to deal with

if i was high mmr and mostly never meed one that would not be a thing

[last blaze]

you can just bring the res for yourself

[hot vigil]

"Waste of time" is VERY much an argument.
Many competitive games have made adjustments to gameplay if a certain aspect or mechanic devolves the playstate into little real interaction between either parties.
Sure there is a "choice", but that choice is less of a choice and more of patience test between players. The gameplay exchange ain't any mindgames or out-witting of your opponent, but to see who have least amount of spare time today.

[swift ferry]

Mykl and DeathbyBubbles arent making good faith arguments towards xancord's ackniwledgement of the game's design gaps

Neither 3 of you are having a constructive discussion

[open carbon]

It would be an argument if it was true. But you don't have to waste time. That's my point

[last blaze]

you don't have to full kill the solo

you can just move on

[trail oasis]

its always like that crimson

[last blaze]

sorry thought police

[swift ferry]

Case in point

[open carbon]

I think arguing to nerf self-res is in bad faith by itself and I'm trying to point that out without just saying it straight out confrontationally

[last blaze]

It's called discord for a reason

[swift ferry]

I will not be joing or reading past this point

[last blaze]

k

[hot vigil]

Okay, so the choice is to deal with the problem or have the problem come bite you in the ass later.
That ain't a choice, there is a strictly better play-path.
Many people unless there is more urgent matter, will always try to makes the player increasing their odds for winning.
And that play-play means waiting and wasting time.

[open carbon]

Ah yes, shouting "bad faith" and then ignoring the responses. Throwing a burning bag of poop into a room and just close the door from the outside

[last blaze]

I've played lots solo and tri and have never had a problem with other solos being able to self rev it's just like if someone got necroed

[open carbon]

That is not the choice, and that's what we have been saying for days now, as long as xancord has been trying to convince everybody of their idea

The choice is to either come in prepared against all possibilities or refusing to and getting bitten in the ass for the stupidity

[last blaze]

how is it any diferent from a team using necro

[hot vigil]

And I would say it is an unhealthy sign if a single trait warps the whole meta around it.

[last blaze]

there is no solo meta

[hot vigil]

A whole team cannot come back when they are all on the ground.

[last blaze]

a solo is not a whole team

[open carbon]

They can hide till you're gone and pick their mate to backstab you

[hot vigil]

Well, you got your difference.

[last blaze]

it still would be one person

[last blaze]

that's a fact not a difference

how is 1 person 3

[open carbon]

It still would be one person dead, getting back up and stabbing you in the back, if you don't burn them.

[last blaze]

solo or not that can still happen

so how is it different when it's solo

[open carbon]

Precisely

[hot vigil]

In my experience not what happens with Trios.
But even IF they do, they usually come back if you burn their buddy's body.

[sour nest]

It will melt

[open carbon]

Oh with a solo you wouldn't see anyone with instinct, I fucking bet

[open carbon]

Remove burning because it's unfair to solos that wanna self-res

[hot vigil]

You asked me how necro is different when trios use it.
And my answer is still "they cannot use it when they are all dead".

[trail oasis]

they should bring back solo queue tbh.

[open carbon]

That's literally what I keep hearing from anyone who wants self-res nerfed

[last blaze]

I meant how is the situation any different when they get reved

[open carbon]

Soul Survivor not good enough?

[trail oasis]

not the same

[last blaze]

just as good

[open carbon]

Of course not. No camping

[trail oasis]

yeah i love it.

[open carbon]

It's rush or be left behind

It's more action

Ok I see now

[trail oasis]

i play my first half prestige level then bounty hunt for the rest

[open carbon]

It's no bounty hunt for sure

[last blaze]

I like it because you can still get bounty from holding the well spring even if you die after

[open carbon]

Anyway. As a non-solo I'm strongly against any nerf to self-res. It'd be boring as I like to torture solos

[trail oasis]

its just that for bounty hunt theres clearly an undesired gameplay coming with solo player meta that could be avoided with solo queue for bounty hunter and no self revive for duo and trio choice. just want i meant

[last blaze]

there is no solo player meta

[open carbon]

It's not undesired though, at least not by everyone

[hot vigil]

• It makes noise.
• It takes a hunter out of the fight.
• It cost health.
• It can only be done with the help of a buddy.
  So let me get one thing straight, I don't want solo necro gone.
  I think it is fine that Solo players can get up if they get hit by a stray bullet or trades with the last man on an enemy team.
  I just want that scenario where a team is looking at a solo burning, doing nothing.

[trail oasis]

it change the original aspect of the game

[open carbon]

1- revive always makes noise, NECRO though doesn't

[hot vigil]

It does, as you are in dark-sight.

[trail oasis]

if necro could be a somehow stackable burn trait that would come with a downside and less recurent situation. perfect fix imo. just not a free 4 res with 4 small bar and reduce burning / fullhp res trait

[last blaze]

you can just move on after they're burning no one is making you camp them even if they do rev themselfs they will be an easy kill if they try and fight you again and as you already killed them on full health you most likly are better than them

[last blaze]

only when you first open dark sight does it make a noise

[open carbon]

Show me an example of how you can hear a teammate necroing, you can never be sure if it's just dark sight and in most circumstances you can't even hear it over the sound of everything else around

[open carbon]

3- always cost health except if being picked by hand

[last blaze]

solo necro costs health

as you don't get up will full health even with resilence

[hot vigil]

Again, it comes back to playing the game optimally, many people feels it is the best move to make sure the solo doesn't comes back and shoot them in the arse.
Sure you "have the choice" to move on, but rarely it is smart to do, it is simply asking to get shot 2 min later.
Especially because if the solo is going for the boss, they are gonna head the same way as you most likely.

[hot vigil]

Then it ain't nerco is it?!

[open carbon]

4- Solo necro can only be done after 10 seconds with sort of corresponds with a mate running up and picking you or instantly start to necro

[open carbon]

Fair

[hot vigil]

I will say, that solo necro taking 10 seconds was the weirdest nerf they did with it.
Should honestly be 6 seconds.

[last blaze]

well you can't change the game because someone does somthing they don't enjoy because they have a delusion that it's optimal

[open carbon]

2- don't understand how that is meant exactly

[open carbon]

Man that's actually kind of well-said

"they have a delusion that it's optimal"

[last blaze]

thank you

I'll be here all night XD

[open carbon]

I think that is my main point against the "self-res nerf" by watching sbd burn

The idea of that being the optimal way of going about it, or even the only way, is plain wrong so arguing on the basis of that idea is kind of useless

[hot vigil]

While I can agree player perception can affect enjoyment or disliking a factor, it still ain't a delusion to say: "If I don't remove this player from the match, they will still be a threat".
That is also why most gunfights in Hunt is played to the death, it is thrill and driving force for most people.

[last blaze]

games are meant to be fun not a job that you become the most efficient at

[hot vigil]

But people can have fun by having success in games

And Hunt IS a competetive game, where the main focus point is the PvP.

[open carbon]

Yeah just believing that is "optimal", that's the delusion

[hot vigil]

So why is it more optimal risking getting killed by a player?

[open carbon]

Subjectively it obviously can be optimal

[last blaze]

yes but if you're going for only success then you'll become very upset when that's not what you get. which is an unhealthy way of playing a game

[open carbon]

Because that's not the only alternative. That is the whole point of this fucking discussion man

[last blaze]

by opening the game and playing you're risking getting killed by a player should you just not play?

[trail oasis]

[open carbon]

Sorry

[winged skiff]

If you're a team, simply bring traps, and place em over the solo player, so when he rezzes, he immediately dies

[hot vigil]

Yes and no, people plays games for many reasons and you cannot take away that people enjoys games in a way you don't.

[open carbon]

I'm not gonna cuss again ^^

[winged skiff]

free extra kill

[last blaze]

fr

[hot vigil]

Except he doesn't if he have resilience.

[last blaze]

then you can hear the trap go off

[open carbon]

Poison+Concertina even kills then

[hot vigil]

not if the point of trapping them is to being able to leave.

[last blaze]

you can't make a game that pleases everyone it's impossible

[hot vigil]

First time, then next time they can come back.

[open carbon]

A concertina bomb also downs you when you have resilience

[winged skiff]

then you didnt place enough traps

[last blaze]

"use more gun"

[winged skiff]

seriously, solo necro is a non issue

[hot vigil]

That is true. But I don't think it is unreasonable that a a single solo should have that much power over the enjoyment of 3 other players.

[hoary widget]

I'd say there's definitely a caveat to that though, you can only take the "they can play the game however they want" argument so far.

For example a guy with a lot of ping who plays on regions he's clearly not meant to he playing on causing unnecessary inconsistencies in the game.

[trail oasis]

always telling us our we counter it like we dont know. that not the point of the discution.

[open carbon]

Sure, but by that time you're definitely gone and they get to decide whether their remaining chunks are enough to go for another fight or rather exfil and restock etc

[hot vigil]

Then we return to the issue of a single trait warping the meta.

[last blaze]

how is a solo a bar down going to do anything against a 3 man that already killed him showing they're better

[open carbon]

Only sweats care about meta though

[last blaze]

they will be happy to get the free extra kill

[hoary widget]

Like sure he can play in a different region but he's making the game frustrating for both of us because he just really wanted to play in EU instead of NA west

I think the ping limit should be lower anyway

But i digress.

[hot vigil]

That is very true, but my point still stands that I've seen plenty of trio teams having frustrations with solo necro in Hunt.
And it is always a "Solo, taking the fun away from 3 people", so I think it is fair to gauge if the trait could be balanced in a way that doesn't create those scenarios.

[winged skiff]

It's fine like it is, gives solos a chance to not lose their hunter, as most will just want to exfil after (esp. if you just put a little fire on them, and purposely only run like 10 m and then sneak afterwards, because then they think you're waiting for them to revive

[last blaze]

what if you wanna play with friends that are in the US I do it all the time

[winged skiff]

had like 3 kills in a row from a solo who tried reviving himself lol

and I was on the other side of the map xD

[hoary widget]

I think the meta matters even for "casuals" to an extend, because balance like this is delicate and will help players adjust in the long run once they start naturally improving. However, i don't think there's a trait rn (not counting event ones) that break the game to an extreme extent.

[hot vigil]

Well, then you must understand from my play perspective, that is a risk factor.
Hence why burning solo down is the better play for less pain down the line.

[open carbon]

You know the biggest point I've seen here so far that the one who is suggesting to nerf self-res argues to be a solo player themselves. It's fair to think they encounter other solos that just keep whooping them :P And limiting the amount of revives would make it a "who revives first or who can be more patient" thing

[last blaze]

I don't believe a trio fighting a solo with a bar down is going to have that much of a problem and even if they do most other won't

[open carbon]

Self-resing is the bigger risk factor

Prepared enemies just down you again etc so "risk" is not an argument here

Sorry

It is

But it's a weak one

I should stop using absolutes

[last blaze]

are you a health and safty manager by chance with all this talk of risk

[hot vigil]

Maybe, maybe not, that is the issue of this game, you can really get fucked over by the wrong player at the wrong time in this game.

[last blaze]

that's not really a point though

[hoary widget]

The solos came back to haunt this man later in the match fr

[last blaze]

frfr

[open carbon]

Yeah and that's part of the fun for me... The "get fucked over by the wrong player at the wrong time"

It's also a skill issue :P

[hot vigil]

it is a point for the choices we make during a match.

[last blaze]

key word being choices

you don't have to do anything if you don't think its fun

[hoary widget]

I made the choice to become a war criminal in Hunt with my railroad hammer

[last blaze]

based

hammer time is the best time

[hot vigil]

But okay, but please tell why it would be too bad if there was some kind of safe-guard system that made sure that solo potentially couldn't take a whole team hostage?

[open carbon]

Yeah and taking away choices from the group of players that is, by definition, at the greatest disadvantage, would be a bad move imo

[hot vigil]

Let us say, you can solo-necro after 6 seconds, but the window is only 4 seconds?

[last blaze]

because it would be a safe guard for something that's already safe

[hoary widget]

When has a solo ever held a team hostage

[last blaze]

^

[hoary widget]

How did you let him do that in the first place?

I dont comprehend the mental gymnastics here

[hot vigil]

By killing him and knowing that he can come back.

[open carbon]

Because if a trio gets taken hostage by a solo, that's really the trios fault

[last blaze]

that could only happen if the solo was crazy good but then that's not related to the perk

[hot vigil]

okay now you guys ain't even arguing around the point of solo-necro

[open carbon]

OHHHH

I UNDERSTAND NOW

[hoary widget]

If the solo was already epic enough to do that necro would not make the difference aside from giving him like 10% less chance of error

[hot vigil]

It is FIGURATIVLY speech that he is holding them hostage.

[open carbon]

You've all seen Saylers Tower of Concertina and Pain vid

[hoary widget]

Bruh

[hot vigil]

yes I have

[last blaze]

what I want to know is how is a trio going to lose a fight to a solo a bar down they can just walk off if they wanted to they have all the power

[open carbon]

How does it affect your decision making? Because "taking a trio hostage as a solo" .. Sayler is the only madman I've ever heard of doing that

[open carbon]

Skill issue :D

[last blaze]

the only hostage is the person that thinks they can't 3 v 1 someone with a bar down

a hostage to their bad team

[open carbon]

Yeah I mean, maybe someone fell victim to Sayler and that's why they want the self-res gone xD

[hot vigil]

Never said I wanted self-rez gone

but none of you guys ever commented on that

[open carbon]

Sorry xD "nerfed"

[last blaze]

@hoary widgetuppermat should cost more than the drilling

if they were both to be lowerd

[open carbon]

Sorry, I might have missed it.. Could you point me to that msg, it probably went past me in the flurry of messages here

[hot vigil]

#feedback-discussion message

[last blaze]

it should not be changed

[hardy coral]

Drilling price is fine if they fixed the buckshot, flechette, and special ammo muzzle velocity. Uppermat could be around 290-340 dollars as is.

[open carbon]

Ah so that would mean after 10 secs, no more self-res?

[last blaze]

so you think the drilling is as good as the mozin for the same price

[hardy coral]

Yeah, it has a quicker two tap and a shotgun underbarrel. They aren't really comparable guns either.

[hot vigil]

Yes, you get a 4 second window to get up, the way I think solo-necro should be a factor in Hunt is to be a "bad luck mitigator", making trades or stray headshots less painful for the solo-player.

[hardy coral]

The C&K is worth the price (albiet with slugs) and isn't comparable to the mosin other than in power bracket

[last blaze]

I agree but it is good but not mozin good

[open carbon]

I think that whole price discussion has to be started from scratch with the resupply changes... Now that long ammo is only 2 per crate, they could lower prices for mosin etc back down a little in general.. And match all other prices to that new ammo scarcity

[last blaze]

not even slate slugs is 500 diller

[hardy coral]

Other rifles have around 20% muzzle velocity reduction with FMJ or Dum Dum. Drilling has 30%, it should just be 20% and have the spread of the buckshot fixed to be basically the same as romero.

[last blaze]

I hardly ever run out of long ammo even in really big fights I think the price should stay the same not that it matters for people that don't presige

[hardy coral]

Long ammo price can stay the same. The pickup has balanced it well against your medium and compact options.

[open carbon]

Ah yeah I read the part about the trade. I think it is definitely good as a bad-luck-mitigator. I think solos should be able to revive much later too.. I really enjoy the moments when a solo we thought has given up already joins the fight again at the boss compound

[last blaze]

even if that was changed I still don't see it being worth 500

[hardy coral]

Not that taking other stuff to increase your long pickup was that good in the first place, it's even a buff on lebel and krag alone.

[hardy coral]

I don't see why the quickest rifle two tap with an underbarrel romero wouldn't be worth that much?

Just because people struggle to use the nitro doesn't mean that should be cheaper.

[open carbon]

Then I think the Drilling Uppermat and Uppercat are wayyyy overpriced, they should cut them by 100 H$ at least, imo

[last blaze]

because it has a long reload has med ammo damage range

[hardy coral]

Even right now the drilling is a monster with special+slugs.

[hardy coral]

You get closer since there's practically no downside since you also have a shotgun underbarrel.

[hot vigil]

Which is interesting, bc most of the people (including myself) have the other experience, it feels awful to get killed by a guy you thought was dead minutes ago.
Which leads to the path of burning every solo, just to make sure.

[hardy coral]

It is also good for headshots cus of fast follow up. It just struggles with that a bit if you equip special ammo.

[last blaze]

that's true but in open fights that is not a option

[hardy coral]

In open fights that is an option. I can't think of that many locations where you can get pinned like that.

[last blaze]

the fields near the the church with the big bell tower is one that comes to mind

[hardy coral]

Also tagging someone with dum dum or even threatening damage+follow up with something else can let you close the gap.