feedback-discussion

[keen oak]

Objective is one thing and gameplay is another. You can not justify balance changes with "avoid gunfights, get cover, get the bounty" it doesn't make sense friend. Things happen, gunfights happen.

[queen jungle]

It is a PvPvE game by the very nature of PvE playing such a large role and being at the core of the objective.
And I don't disregard PvP, but you should pick your fights carefully - if you just rush towards any PvP you can find, you'll have to live with getting hit and ultimately disadvantaged.

[tribal wyvern]

As it has a big value, only a select few will get away with

The core objective is a bounty.
How you get it, is up to you.

The pve is there to mostly differ the game from like Battleroyale. And to then expand upon features & mechanics, like getting xp, sound traps and so on.
But only the pvp makes the game repeatable.

[queen jungle]

Well, yes. BUT, and this has been emphasised many times, the secondary objective is to get out alive, "live to die another day", take what you got, use it to upgrade your hunter to have better chances next time.

I know death is nowhere near as punishing as it used to be and as a day one veteran that's a change I very much dislike about Hunt, but staying alive is always a better result than ending up dead.

[tribal wyvern]

I don't see any disagreeing with "alive > dead."

But my point is, remove the pvp, it's a dead game, remove the pve, theres still a game.
SoT devs realised this very early & has slammed on any ppl crying for "pve" servers, as it would be the death of the game.

As would Hunt.

And SoT & Hunt has alot of similarities that can be compared.

[keen oak]

SoT?

[tribal wyvern]

Sea of Thieves

[queen jungle]

PvP is a part of Hunt, but going into fights always comes at a risk and losing bars for the remainder of the game is a part of that risk. So even if you win a fight, you may consider calling it a day and extracting to gear up again and return the next match.

[tribal wyvern]

I'm fine with that Finall, if it means i got outplayed & died.

Not being sniped by an ammo removing health bars at a ridiculous range

[tribal wyvern]

With 0 ways to get it back if a boss got banished

[queen jungle]

I consider this part of the risk that the PvP element brings into the mix.

[queen jungle]

Yes, which is one of the situations permanent, always-available extracts come into play. It's often better to take what you got so far, leave and restore those health bars, get some traits, gear up and try next match.

[tribal wyvern]

My post is blocked because i mentioned a medical condition lol

Fine discord server, no other ammo allows you to contract deadly illnesses & permanently removes bars because of it.
Like fire do.

You don't sustain bleeding so heavy you lose a bar

[queen jungle]

Yes, unfortunately we've had people in the past use that term unrelated to said medical condition

[keen oak]

@queen jungle I am sorry bro but saying stuff like "take cover, avoid gunfights, extract earlier" is how you justify a poor balancing change?

[tribal wyvern]

You can outmanevur alot of playstyles & ammos, besides fire.
It's just a you got shot, your bars gone, deal with it.

In a sense you can atleast avoid shotguns.
How do you avoid a rifle? Without already sitting with a shotgun.

[lofty haven]

Fire bullet doesn't instaburn your bars so if you are near cover you get to extinguish it

[tribal wyvern]

Ye but it also means staying covered for about 30+seconds

Ppl argued regen shot was dogshit cuz it regens ur hp so slow, but somehow you can hide for equally long with a charred bar

[queen jungle]

I don't consider it a poor balancing choice at all, the devs don't make such changes randomly, but take their internal telemetry as well as their own experience playing the game into account. And people like Dennis have a lot of FPS game design experience.

[keen oak]

Which gives your opponents a buttload of time to reposition and burn you again and again and again

[keen oak]

Except that it is and history shows that even people with more experience than Dennis make mistakes and this change is exactly that

[tribal wyvern]

@queen jungle
Experience in FPS doesn't mean all changes you make somehow sparkle with rainbows.
They can still make shit changes.

I'd argue Avtomat was a shitty addition, then buffing it with spark pistols, was a horrible decision.

That pistol was added with a complete disregard what it would to do ammo pools.

[keen oak]

@queen jungle Whilst they may have telemetry I have eyes, cold hard logic and understanding of FPS games which I have been playing since I was 7 and more than enough of hours in Hunt to tell the difference between a good and a bad decision

[frosty reef]

please get rid of night and fog maps for good or put them in a new playlist. I can't see when playing, and if I don't use the right legendary skin, I am put at a disadvantage without me being able to do anything

[keen oak]

And forcing people to spend 5 points for salveskin not to get instaburned in every shot in a compound is a poor balancing decision

[tribal wyvern]

I'm all for buffing special ammo & changing the meta.
But fire ammo is not becoming "strong" or "op", it's just becoming annoying, obnoxious & frustrating.

I can keep burning & still take ppl out, no problem.
But I will leave that fight wit 50hp

My loadout will be Spark fmj/Fire & whichever gun i feel like using at the time.
I believe it will be most other ppls aswell.

[keen oak]

It will be annoying af because people with fire ammo rifle will now dictate the tempo of each fight in medium range

And poke you until you will need to disengage in order not to get oneshotted without 25hp

Any changes that limits the amount gunfights I am against and this change will do it

Along side ammo economy changes

[tribal wyvern]

And it's positive to prolong peoples stay in the game.
You can promote more pvp without hurting the core mechanic, to chase bounty.
We all still need it, atleast me prestiging.

only 8 more lvls

[keen oak]

I'd rather see fire ammo doing more charcoal damage instead of this insta burning mechanic it's just going to be unbearable

[brisk timber]

Tbh i can see finals points even tho im not a fan of the fire ammo.
Right now in my experience people tend to run towards gunshots instead of running away.
Most of my friends are like "Im here to shoot and fight".
Going for the bounty or extract early? Why? Can start another round playing free hunters.

While on one hand its certainly what drives people in because its more casual on the other hand it takes away from the "survival" aspect.

So in that regard fire ammo drives those casuals running towards gunshots more away.

[keen oak]

Except the gunfights are far more fun than "surviving" and limiting the gunfights will eventually lead to people leaving the game

[brisk timber]

Yea thats the thing

Its a point of view subjective thing

Depends on what you like about hunt

[keen oak]

It's not as subjective as you may think friend. Most players are here for the PvP because it's unique in FPS genre

If you fuck with that you lose players

When Hunt was more about survival than gunfights it had less than 15k consecutive players

[brisk timber]

Im here for the PvP aswell - but im also here for the map traversal and the "hunt" kind of stuff.
Setting up traps , ambushes , avoiding big shootouts.

I think using fire ammo as the restrictive componend is bad tho aswell

But the meta right now is running toward shots - and i think thats equally wrong aswell.

[keen oak]

How so

[brisk timber]

The shootouts should evolve around getting your hands on the bounty.
PvP should always be a means to a goal. Not the goal in itself.

[keen oak]

How is people wanting to participate in gunfights a bad thing

[unborn dagger]

^pretty much this

@rakki

[brisk timber]

Because its not a gunfight simulation.
Its Hunt: Showdown.

[unborn dagger]

Pvp has never been the main objective

[keen oak]

Ok then make objective worth more or be more rewarding

[brisk timber]

This is a good take aswell.

A thing i always thought about was binding something like cheat-death to a banish/bounty.

That would really encourage players instead of only money.

[keen oak]

I've played Hunt for over 2k hours and playing for the objective only is just mundane to me.

I want to interact with others as much as possible regadless if they have the tokens or not

A lot of players feel that way it seems. Hence the backlash at changes affecting gunfight aspect negatively

So do I

If Crytek goal is to shift the meta towards objective-gunfights instead of gunfight-gunfights then changes to the objective are warranted. Gunfights are fine

Well except avtomat

[brisk timber]

In the end everything humans do is a result of social interaction of some form or another.
So game design wise you would have to make a goal like the bounty more rewarding so that its benefits/gives you an edge for that social interaction.

This would make people value playing the objective way more.

Like i said, Cheat death. Maybe HP regen. I dont know.

But there needs to be a more imminent benefit on getting the bounty.

[keen oak]

I'd argue that having the token now is a disadvantage. Especially for solos

[brisk timber]

I feel that too - and i think its a big reason why people run towards gunshots - because its easier to get the hands on the bounty when the other hunters are dead already.
While it actually should be a race for who gets the bounty first.

i know people do no like cheat death but actually do a mind game how the game would evolve if...
You get a cheat death for banishing a boss

[keen oak]

Which is also working your way towards the objective

So ultimately we are on the same page its just that your take on the circumstances leading to gunfights is more objective-oriented

Which is fine for me as long as the gunfight part works well

[keen oak]

What do you mean by cheat death exactly?

[brisk timber]

Remember the devils moon event where you got cheat death thrown around via trait on the map like its candy? bad stuff

So you can die but not lose your Hunter

If you bind that to a boss banish tho

People would race for the bosses on the map!

You would actually think about
"Hm...do i run towards gun shot and lose valuable time or do i ignore it and find the next clue?"

And even after the banish instead of rushing to extract people would think

"Okay i may lose my loadout but i dont lose the hunter - maybe go for the gauntlet?"

[keen oak]

That's sounds ok to me

[brisk timber]

While it would incentivise going for PvE it would also boost PvP so much

While Devil Moon event was running people would actually stay on the map and try for the jackpot which was alot of fun

[keen oak]

At this point I'd take any change motivating me to get the bounty first as long as it doesn it break the game

And this doesnt

I mean atm I dont care about the bounty because: a) I have enough money and b) It is a disadvantage

[unborn smelt]

which doesn't work out well either for gameplay becuase then the one who spawns close by just gets a huge advantage.
People would just start nuking bosses before actual fights around the bosslair can break out again, with consumbales for just the death cheat.
We had a simmilar situation in the past a few times

this is partly a reason for bosses getting the "rage" phases to draw out bossfights and allow bosslair fights to brew and play out before the bosses are simply nuked away too fast.
This also happened when the sticky would OHK bosses easily (or the big bundle could do so far more reliably because bosses wouldn't start moving unless aggroed)

[keen oak]

Well either way taking the boss first should be an advantage rather than a loose objective

At the moment it's the latter.

• a disadvantage

[keen oak]

It sounds more like an issue of spawns and bosses being easy to kill

[brisk timber]

Thats true but i think its about time to get boss spawns away from the edges of the map + having exit in the same area.

Thats stuff that bothers me like forever

[next yarrow]

My opinion is that bosses need a rework so the impact fights in a way other than "if you fight this people get to push you for free"

But it's probably too late for that

[brisk timber]

Would be cool to have bosses be tougher BUT they target people that just entered the lair first 😄

[unborn smelt]

If they're harder to kill people don't initiate the fight at all and just camp till they think the coast is clear (seen that in solo only BH in early access)

[brisk timber]

yea thats a real problem though

How many times ive been taken out because i took the risk of doin the boss first

People come in guns blazing with shotguns

:S

Maybe having the indicator for somebody entering boss zone visible at all times would help

[unborn smelt]

Its a hard thing to try and balace - we've been through many ups and downs in this regard.

Its also a conflict of interests. A lot of peeps are only still here for the PvP, thats the entirety of Hunts replay value - forcing boring repetetive PvE onto them is not gonna go over too well.

[keen oak]

I am not saying we should make bosses harder to kill to. I just referred to one of your arguments.

My point is there should be more incentives for taking the bounty. Perhaps more bounty-related perks like Magpie? Idk something

[unborn smelt]

It's a delicate balance one needs to try to keep

[keen oak]

Beceause I am sitting on almost 500k and I dont have any need for doing the bosses tbh. In fact I am pretty sure I earned more money by looting stuff and hunters rather than the bounties

So when you have an objective that takes time to find and kill to get the money whilst you can earn the same if not more by doing anything but that then its not really worth doing is it?

It should be

[unborn smelt]

If bosses provide too important ressources, people nuke them and run away before good gameplay can develop for the most part.

If you just make them harder to kill, people just camp to kill the boss later and grab the rewards

If you make the rewards less valuable people ignore objectives again

[keen oak]

Hence we should add more bounty related perks and/or bonuses that work only if you remain in the game without affecting the difficulty of the boss fight

[unborn smelt]

Yes - i do agree with the core idea behind that.

[keen oak]

I am glad bro

[brisk timber]

Im too. Can we hug?

[unborn smelt]

[brisk timber]

[keen oak]

Aaay

Ok I've provided enough feedback for the day. See you in game boys

[last blaze]

@ashen girder the challanges are not forcing you to do anythin because someone else in your team can do them for you

[stray wyvern]

you right haha just force someone else in your team to have a bad time to complete something you dont even wanna do yourself

[last blaze]

you can always do the other challenges that you like more and most of them can be done in one or two games and it is called a challange for a reason

never seen so many people upset over a name of a pistol before

[next yarrow]

Hey, it worked for "you live to die another day"

Through tireless effort, the Hunt community can get text strings changed

[last blaze]

I would rather see effort put into changing more importent things in the game that effect game play

[next yarrow]

The devs have added a lot of community suggestions.

[versed hull]

Everywhere there is an ampersand (&) there is no space immediately following

[worthy knoll]

Because its a stupid Name

[worthy knoll]

Based

[worthy knoll]

Agreed

[supple moat]

Hello! Does anyone know how to create a support ticket?

[ashen girder]

I just think challenges could be better, still little "challenging" while you could play any loadout you want. I'm not the only one who thinks they are boring, annoying and now pretty much forced 1.13+ if you want to earn any BB's whatsoever. And please, don't play with the words, you know well what I meant by that. Of course nobody is forcing you to do anything, but if they would have this attitude towards everything, not sure if you would use this sentence anymore. There is definitely room for improvement in my personal opinion and this may not be the top priority, but at least a consideration in the future would be cool aiming on improving this system.

[warm zephyr]

@zenith lotus how about a boomerang?

[analog willow]

I think challenges should be removed in favor of quests, and BB's should be earned passively and/or as a part of questline rewards. Having an entire set of tasks dedicated to acquiring BB's, a player can now put a monetary value on their time in game (I'm spending x amount of time to earn x amount of money). If BB's were earned passively, or as a minor reward along the way to skin reward, I'd think you wouldn't have as many players thinking this way and viewing "challenges/quests" as work. Additionally, you could eliminate the "challenges" panel in the GUI with a questline "watchlist" for when more questlines get added

[minor glacier]

Ive thought what hunt would be like if the bosses could leave the main building and roam the compound. It would make taking a boss much more difficult in my eyes since your out in the open running around instead of in a trapped up boss lair killing it for "free"

Like right now, if you get to butcher, you can kill it with an axe and stam shot in under 30 seconds. Not including the time it takes to set up traps before you run all the way in

theres also those big bundle suicide runs you can do that insta kill boss too saw someone do that the other day.

I would like to see the bosses reworked / made harder to kill because right now it seems way to easy to just run in kill the boss in 30 seconds before a fight and then have that advantage of a free insta heal

Plus you have those people who will sit on a boss corpse until they hear someone run around then they pop the banish.

[unborn dagger]

That's kinda what were going to see with the gator itself

[minor glacier]

hopefully itll make fights more interesting

[queen jungle]

@minor glacier Please don't post the same suggestion again.

[minor glacier]

[unborn smelt]

Most bossfights take about 1-2 min tho.

Thats exactly why bosses got the "rage" phase in the past.
Those phases act as three 30 sec. timewindows to keep the Bosses alive longer.

Sure one can skip one of those phases easily, or invest in a consumable like a stiky or poison bomb to speed up the process, but a lot of people don't do that, which means they usually do a routine of bursting a boss down ~25%, evade them during the rage phase (or in the assassins case dealing minimal damage in said phase) and then rinse and repeat untill the boss dies

[hot vigil]

Double sticky can instant kill a boss

[unborn sandal]

You can kill the butcher in about 20 seconds with just an axe if you know what you’re doing

The assassin can be taken down in about 40 seconds with an axe if you get lucky with how much he aggroes

The spider and scrapbeak will beat the crap out of you if you try to fight them in frenzy so a minute or two is accurate for them

[hot vigil]

Actually, poison damage absoulutly shreds Scrapbeak.
If fan/lever him down he can die REALLY fast, otherwise if you a luck, he can get stuck in a eternal damage loop of a crossbow posion cloud.

[thick wave]

Of all the traits in that fusion suggestion, (many of which were pretty good) the one that stood out to me the most was Poltergeist, being able to open doors and interact with things from a distance though dark sight sounds amazing.

[analog willow]

@willow hedge Is there something specific you're wanting addressed?

[willow hedge]

I assume you are referring to my suggestion post? Yes and no. There's plenty I'd like to have an update on (e.g. server status, and why I have to put up with high-ping players). But I know that "demanding" information is almost useless, since sometimes as the person / people who are working on the issue, you can't really give an update beyond "We're working on it". And that's not helping anyone. The flow of information regarding technical / operational issues is a tricky topic. Or even a mine field.
I can't support my gut feeling with numbers (wish I could) but to me as a player it feels like people are repeating the same issues over and over again and there's hardly any response from Crytek. And if you have a platform like discord or reddit it can become pretty nasty pretty quickly. Echo chambers and all that.

[analog willow]

In the most recent developer update, David mentioned that servers are something they devoting extra time to fix a lot of the issues. Often times running into high ping players occurs when a player from a low population area can't find a match within their preferred region due to low player count in that area at that time.

It can be tough knowing whether a question has answered or not. Lots of questions out there. Often times the same questions get asked over and over, so don't be offended if someone from Crytek doesn't reach out specifically to answer it

[willow hedge]

I am aware of that answer and the reason why regions might be merged. I won't start a discussion here about my personal feelings and views on that reason.

[unborn smelt]

I'm not saying you can't kill em faster ...

I'm saying most don't take the ressources to.

Big bundle can ohk all bosses

[analog willow]

This is the place for it 🙂 Feel free to express your opinion. It has value even if they decide to go in a different direction

[unborn smelt]

Stickies speeds it up tremendously. Fire ammo wreaks havoc on the spider, poison nukes the assassin and to a lesser degree scrappy too.

But how often do people bring those tools and then are lucky to get to the right boss - i'm willing to bet its only a small amount of the time

[willow hedge]

And that is exactly my point. The idea that I have to watch every developer update and fast forward through all the chatter that doesn't interest me baffles me. (assuming that I can find the one that actually contains an answer to my question) As you said, there are many questions / issues that get asked over and over again. Why isn't there a literal FAQ? It can't be too hard to write that stuff down and make it easily available.

[analog willow]

I love my hand crossbow poison bolts😋 Perfect companion to any build for me

[willow hedge]

I could. But at this point I am a bit of a cynic and don't really believe that anything I write here has any chance of getting through to anyone who would care. As much as it hurts me to say this.

I have no reason to believe that a dev or even a CM reads this.

[analog willow]

Well, you have a great community here, and developers that watch this chat that can answer any questions you have right here

[unborn smelt]

They are cool - ngl

I like em too

But how many people bring them - and of those that do they still need to be lucky to get the assassin or scrappy to be able to nuke a boss

[analog willow]

I'm going to be using the Poison and Incidiary combo when it comes out. I'm so excited

[unborn smelt]

I'm not a fan of how fire works so i'll likely hold off from using them

[analog willow]

It works for the Butcher too. Only Spider is immune to it's powers😋

[royal grove]

when i do solos i bring antidote+poison+sticky
gives you everything you need to nuke a boss in 10 seconds (longer for assasin)

[unborn smelt]

Yes but against the butcher it's not nearly as effective as against the other two

[analog willow]

Fair. I don't want to use incidiary rounds with long ammo for the same reason

[unborn smelt]

As i said - one can still nuke bosses just fine. But havong a loadout that reliably can do so means its far less strong in PvP thus i thi k most people don't bring that stuff

[royal grove]

yes

[analog willow]

I melt the butcher pretty good by using poison

[royal grove]

as i said - awooga bagooga ding dong

[unborn smelt]

Hence me hazarding the guess that most bossfights take ~1-2 min

[analog willow]

I have a video I'm working on to counter this point😋

[royal grove]

https://tenor.com/view/blackish-watching-you-eye-to-eye-watch-it-careful-gif-6077388

[analog willow]

In fact, I think poison bolts are one of the most effective assault tools😋

[unborn smelt]

Poison bolts are really good - but poison is just really weak compared to the rest

[willow hedge]

I am a simple man. All I want is a written post that answers "current" community questions, that gets updated over time. Out with old topics, in with new ones. Something I can reliably link to (a page on the hunt website for example) and something I don't have to hope for the best to find anything (like old twitch streams).

My greatest peeve in the past few weeks is the amount of asian (sometimes even US) players with insane latency I have to deal with on EU servers. Especially since I can't (and honestly don't want to) play on asian servers with a ping far beyond the 200ms. It really pisses me off when I get killed behind cover (which is confirmed by the kill view) or by people who pop out of cover after they shot me.

[analog willow]

Fair. The new incindiary change makes even the sparks 15 second poison less effective by comparison

[analog willow]

That style of forum might be a bit outdated for the current day. Luckily, this Discord can answer any questions you have!

Edit: I read the message wrong

[analog willow]

Playing against high ping players can be frustrating, but if the alterative is that they end up in an empty match, I think that's worse that than them playing a little wonky. I try not to let it bother me ❤️

[willow hedge]

How is that outdated? There's a pinned post for the 1.13 Testservers on reddit. How is that any different?

[analog willow]

It takes work to manage that. Here, they get people like me that will do it and answer your questions for free😋

[unborn smelt]

The devs have adressed the ping multiple times in the past - basically last info is its the most fair system. With a small playerbase like hunt has restricting the choice more can lead to veing locked into bad matchmaking zones frequently for many.
Dying behind cover, while frustrating, is fair because had they had lower ping you wouldn't survive, just die erlier.

[analog willow]

Speaking of which, and correct me if I'm wrong, they are looking into closing the ping gap and the trade window a little

[willow hedge]

Yeah... but that's a CMs job. Right?

[unborn smelt]

Not sure, they may be - but last info i heard was the trade window is a result of low velocities and bullets not being deleted midair anymore

Ofc if they find there to be unintended issues they'll work on it

[analog willow]

I'm not sure of the CM jobs and duties, but the ones here manage this Discord. Having what you'd like would require another structure, essentially a website forum which would require it's own team to manage for something this Discord, or as you mentioned, the Reddit can also accomplish, just in a slightly different way

[unborn smelt]

But in the past they basically invalidated fair shots, where you fired a shot, you died while it was still midair (projectile created before dying mind you) and it then got invalidated

[willow hedge]

I'd like to say in advance, that I appreciate the time and nerves (and patience) you and @analog willow are investing in me right now 🙂 However, that's a weird argument, considering the amount of bad feedback you can read for the matchmaking as it is right now. And I don't care if I die sooner. I am used to die. If I die because I am bad (which I totally am) it is one thing. If the system suggests that my enemy got me behind cover or through some other wonky shite, that's pissing me off.

Oh and just to be fair: I don't experience the matchmaking as being bad. Playing on EU I hardly ever get situations where I think that my lobby got filled with people who shouldn't be there (too high or too low)

[analog willow]

Dying behind an object can be weird, but it can be explained logicially by a ping. It takes time for your commands to reach the servers in addition to your enemies. So sometimes you've gone behind cover by the time your enemies shot has registered. The way the server works though, if you both had a ping of 0, your enemy still would have killed you, you just wouldn't have had that extra second to go behind the cover if you both had a ping of 0

[unborn smelt]

The thing with dying behind cover is from a technical standpoint its fair.

The only thi g that happens is the high ping player sees what you did with a delay - then when they shoot you on their screen, the server checks if that should have hit. If yes, your client, where you see yourself already in cover gets updated with you being hit and potentially dead.

[willow hedge]

I really don't see why it would require a new structure. We have a discord where a dedicated channel or a pinned post could be used to keep people updated (although I detest using discord - a glorified chatroom - for any information that should stay visible for some time). We already have a reddit where pinned posts are already used. And crytek has a website. It's all there.

[analog willow]

Additionally, Hunt presents a unique situation for bullets are real objects with a very slow velocity in some cases, so add that into a ping and you can have some crazy looking situations

[unborn smelt]

Were there no / a smaller ping diffrence, you'd just get the info that you're dead sooner, before you reach cover on your client

[unborn smelt]

Well yes EU is the biggest region, so MM works best there.

The issue arises when OCE peeps or SA peeps are locked in to their really small regions, because then the skill diffrence in the brackets needs to be huge or matches half empty

[analog willow]

Maybe they don't want a pinned area with the game's problems Not good PR for any game

[willow hedge]

But people "raging" on the same platform without feedback is better?

[analog willow]

You're getting communication and answers to your questions right here, right now ❤️

[willow hedge]

which is exactly what I want. I don't mind dying. I mind dying when I think I'm already safe.

[unborn smelt]

I understand why you want that - but from Cryteks side the decision is "lock people in small regions into objectively more unfair games" vs " make perceived frustration of objectively fair gameplay of some people in bigger regions better"

Both are situations that would need improoving - but with the current server structure (missing servers for south africa for example) and the still small playerbase Crytek are kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place

You can't just put up more servers so everyone has low ping because them you divide the playerbase too much and negatively affect the MM in both time and fairness.

You can't lump everyone together because at some point ping creates issues ( thats why we got the ping limit, as they found that was the ping number where issues with server performance rose significantly)

[analog willow]

They do have the #general-announcements for updates on what's happening. Perhaps you should make a new suggestion with the desire for a developer channel where they can list a more detailed run down of game developments?

[unborn smelt]

To be fair a lot of infos like those are not in written form

[little carbon]

Ping is playing a role in the trade window as well, just not in the way people think it does. If you die on the server at time x, but you killed the other player at time y<x on your client, with higher ping it can happen that the server gets the packet of you killing the player at y only after point x. In the past that hit would have been invalidated, now if it didn't arrive later than y+800 you will get your kill validated (if it would have been validated on 0 ping).
But no advantage is gained through higher ping here

[unborn smelt]

Oftentimes they acknowlege issues like those in devstreams

[unborn smelt]

Afaik thats not true

Thats missunderstanding what the 800ms limit does

A packet arriving in less than 800ms doesn't make ot get valitaded even tho it technically shouldn't because you were dead

[little carbon]

That's not what I wrote. Keep in mind y<x

What you are describing is the common misunderstanding, yes

But it's not what I was talking about.

[analog willow]

Right. That's what I was getting at. After inquiring more about what they're looking for, perhaps they should change their suggestion to something like have a place where discussions and updates are transcribed and laid out (if that's what they're looking for). If they want clickable topics then we're going back to needing a forum to make it easier to manage all the topics and information, which would require it's own team to manage

[unborn smelt]

My bad i missread

[little carbon]

No worries

Funnily enough most of the latency-based trades are in favor of the lower ping player, meaning that if the sane interaction happened at 0 latency only the high ping player would have gotten a kill

[unborn smelt]

Their suggestion is still valid - i'd sometimes want a quick think to link to too

But the question is if the outcome is worth the effort

[willow hedge]

alright, I am back after my colleague screwing around with our proxy lul, catching up with what you wrote now

[analog willow]

Absolutely. I didn't mean it to sound like I was shouting down the idea if that's how it came off. I was just offering some perspectives on why the current system is the way it is, and how they can get their idea accomplished

[willow hedge]

@analog willow @unborn smelt Please don't get me wrong. I love the game and I want Crytek to be successful with it. And yes, I do get answers here and now. But that's not the point. We three spend the time and effort to talk here. But not everyone does. Having answers to common topics / issues / misunderstandings etc. written down and easily accessible should be in Cryteks interest as well. There's no need for a forum. Not everything has to be discussed. There's a whole news section on the website. https://www.huntshowdown.com/news This could be used. Dev statements are just that: statements. I never said it has to be done on discord or reddit. If there is a wrong platform for something like FAQs, imho it's discord.

All I am saying is, that I feel like there is a lot of room for improvement of the way information flows from the people who are doing the actual work to improve their product and thereby our lives, to those who use it. I am not the one who's saying how it should or even has to be done.

[normal horizon]

we appreciate your suggestion and feedback

[willow hedge]

And I appreciate your and your colleagues' work 🙂 Thanks for dropping a message. The last thing I want is for you fine folks to feel unappreciated or god forbid "bashed". You are working on something special and to me it feels like it's a labour of love for you.

[analog willow]

I read this message wrong earlier👍

[willow hedge]

It's all good 🙂

[dusky tapir]

@coarse geyser run a derringer and base nagant for a challenge

[prisma kestrel]

I’m happy to see good conversation here

[wind stream]

@stray wyvern Please use this channel for discussing feedback.

[coarse geyser]

Youre right, but I want something for precision play, Derringer is fast, has terrible range and mv. The nagant is yucky. Plus a target pistol could be a good utility weapon with ammo swapping and maybe a silenced variant.

And in case you say I could use the hand crossbow, i think it'd be nice to have another option, I know a decent amount of people who hate using crossbows as much as I do.

The sparps is another option but it's too slow for any smooth gameplay in most situations

[dusky tapir]

seems to me you really just want a target pistol rather than a handicap 😁

which is a fair suggestion

[light badge]

I'm still trying to figure out what makes the nagant yucky for this use case other than having multiple shots

I will say I saw a youtube video of someone running romero dragon breath handcrossbow choke (and flashbombs) to basically be a support for their duo partner and try to let them do most of the killing, and having tried that myself with friends that were just getting into the game, it's both pretty funny and fairly effective for its role

[coarse geyser]

Anyone I play with complains if I use the nagant because they've deemed it the worst gun in the game

[coarse geyser]

Pretty much, itd be fun to train my aim and trigger dicipline with a single shot but not have to wait 4 seconds to pressure enemies and help my team again

[light badge]

tell them "good, that's the point of a handicap". any other handicap gun is going to get the same remarks

[light badge]

don't reload you base nagant until it's empty, and then only reload one shot. that reload speed shouldn't be too far off I think

[coarse geyser]

People will let me run an axe long before a nagant, and I want to use a funky gun, not just use guns wrong

I understand what I want is too much of a niche to be worth developing

Maybe I'll just request it to be a single shot tool with more mv and range than the derringer.. that'd have been the smart way to go about this

[coarse geyser]

Sorry if anything came across as rude I was trying to get my point across as fast as possible before I had to clock in for work

[light badge]

if it was suppressed i could see it maybe also having a niche as a tool for shooting lanterns, setting off immolators, etc and could see that possibly being worth developing

[light badge]

you're fine! I get it

[worthy knoll]

Annoyed one?

[light badge]

yep

[worthy knoll]

Good series he did there 👍

[light badge]

it was hilarious, and actually helped get my friends to try the game. I don't think either have played a shooter in almost a decade?
Running the build was also relatively fun and I didn't feel like I was bullying people or having to make bad plays to prevent making the game unfun

and at least one friend getting a few kills levering the winnie made them really start vibing with the game and think it was worth playing more so I consider it an absolute success

[worthy knoll]

Maybe i should try it too 🤔

[light badge]

make sure to bring the full sized romero and not the handcannon. I thought the handcannon would be better for accidentally killing people at close range less, but the reduced range to set people on fire seemed super noticeable and felt awful

[light badge]

if you're not like 2*, your longest range option to be relevant either being a lobbed choke bolt or the dragon breath is enough of a disadvantage for real xD

[alpine fractal]

Fix gamma setting reset on console/xbox. Or just make it so you cant change the gamma in the first place because its unfair to new players that cant see at all when other players can

[worthy knoll]

Of course. I Just Wish there was an even cheaper Shotgun With Dragonsbreath

[inner barn]

some form of (infrequent) player-earned token for unlocking prior event skins would be awesome! i'd sacrifice my firstborn for plague doctor

[light badge]

There used to be, it was called Romero 💀

[worthy knoll]

Ah yes, the Update that ruined a perfectly fine gun.
It was so cheap nothing mattered and since you only had one Shot it was'nt overpowered. Thanks for reminding me 😦

[queen jungle]

@alpine mural You can use this channel to discuss suggestions

[alpine mural]

I've had my responses deleted from here

[next yarrow]

A thread system on the suggestions ideas channel would be awesome, but I wonder how hard it would be to implement: 🤔

[alpine mural]

You right click and start a thread?

of course, we would need permissions or a bot

[next yarrow]

I was thinking bot but yeah that would work

[uncut imp]

@queen jungle I think we are forgetting that we already have a fire boss. The butcher quite literally use fire quite often.

[wary hinge]

I dont see how that is a problem
both scrapbeak and assassin you can argue are "bleed bosses" who apply bleed in different ways

[tribal wyvern]

Not every new feature has to include fire.
Like the least interesting to add even more of right now

[royal grove]

Everything has to add fire because we can't get rid of self res because shitters like it too much

[wary hinge]

Im not saying that we should add a fire boss rn
I am just saying the "we already have a fire boss" argument doesnt make much sense

[royal grove]

Oh ignore me then

[vernal haven]

The original suggestion says "We need a fire boss." That response makes perfect sense

[craggy pike]

How about a giant firefly boss that has a flashbomb effect

[next yarrow]

Everyone's favorite thing about hunt

[magic mulch]

fking disconnecting me for the third time

[green vault]

#game-ideas message @austere stone you can already do that by selecting medium ammo then typing incendiary

[proud narwhal]

@broken moat the posts were also on instagram and YouTube aswell, you're probably just getting one before the other

[upper hearth]

@bold valley Your dark sight trait idea would literally destroy my whole running around with vigor determination and regen. I don't hate the idea. But would need tweaking for duration and such

[bold valley]

was mostly thinking something that let you see lingering markers of other people's presence would be nice

[upper hearth]

I deff don't hate the overall idea. it would be interesting. Be fun for tracking, but also useful in a lot of situations. Also, you could get outplayed with it by sending a teammate in one direction using dark sight off and on. to draw someone tracking them into a trap with the other teammate(s) closing in from behind.

[light badge]

oh god

[uncut imp]

Scrapbeak is more a trap boss

[uncut imp]

Make it drown you instead

[austere stone]

yeh but everything else kinda does this too. (also traits dont work with "SOLO" yet)

[green vault]

True

I want them to add contraband toggle

Generally this search menu can be greatly expanded

[upper hearth]

is there not a toggle for that? I feel like there is, but I assume I am mistaken. I usually just type "owned" or the specific gun i am looking for.

[green vault]

You can type contraband but no toggle

[upper hearth]

ahh, okay fair enough. I would like to see the menu clean up more too. I would also like to see the contraband cap removed.

[late wind]

@digital lodge I suggested a clown hunter a while ago. I'd love to see one too. I even threw together a 15 minute sketch.

[hot vigil]

@upper hearth think Sparks Pistol Silenced my be a little too... annoying to play against.
You slap posion on that bad boi and you can now tag a person that can lose up to 149 hp and be poisoned and have little idea where the shot came from, making follow up shots very easy.

[upper hearth]

thats assuming you are in range for full damage. silence fire arms, have a more severe damage drop of, and slower velocity, less headshot range as well. So if that thing hits you for 149 its inside a compound majority of the time. you should know where they are.

[royal grove]

Yeah we already got a new silenced weapon that's enough for the year

[upper hearth]

Any negative about it you would apply to silent sparks full size.

[late wind]

You act like that's some sort of gotcha. Silent long ammo is a problem.

[upper hearth]

thats not my intent at all.

[hot vigil]

It's still long ammo, the damage drop off starts at 35m for the sparks silenced.
For comparison, the Nagant Silenced drop off start reduction is -5m.
So by the games internal logic Sparks Pistol Silenced would still be have a effective range of 35m before damage drop off.
Sure it is gonna have slower muzzle velocity, but that ain't stopping ANY of the other silenced weapons, more so even IF you removed HALF of the m/s of a silenced sparks pistol, it would still be 226m/s, which is only 24m/s less than the Nagant Pistol Silenced and by the games internal logic once again, the sparks pistol would not lose half its m/s.
And yeah, same thing can be said about the Sparks Silenced, but that is a 3 slot weapon commitment.

The strong aspect of a 1-slot (poisoned) silenced side-arm is the amount of utility it brings.
But the trade off is that that the nagant silenced is not great in combat.
The Sparks Pistol is.

[upper hearth]

damage drop off for the long ammo pistols is 20. so it would be less than that.

[hot vigil]

Fair point, still great. You still 1-tap chest, on hunters that have lost a bar, at 38m then.

[upper hearth]

but that can be said for regular sparks pistol but farther, uppercut, pax and scottfield fmj are likely close to doing the same. I just like variety and giving players more choices. even if its slightly annoying to deal with.

[hot vigil]

but the don't come with the added bonus that they are a utility tool that can silently kill any threat

[upper hearth]

I get that. but that is the reason why you would take the slight downgrade.

[hot vigil]

The downgrade is not big enough for the gain.
It would lessen what little the Nagant Silenced have going for it.

[upper hearth]

vet silent HV scares me more than a sparks silence rifle or pistol. with iron sharpshooter the fire rate is impressive and at if you cant locate them it can be a pain in the butt

[hot vigil]

Vet Silent HV is also a 3-slot, $200 gun.

And also Vet having HV is an overall issue imo

[upper hearth]

you could justify it by pricing it around 275 old uppercut price

sparks pistol is already more expensive than base sparks.

so it follows that trend.

[hot vigil]

Sparks Silence is a price hike of $20.
Spark Pistol Silence is a price hike of $120

Also money is hardly a balance in current state Hunt.

Again, rather see another pistol get a silenced variant or even better, slight buff to the Silenced Nagant.

[upper hearth]

I agree on the pricing isnt a good way to balance. I just like variety and where that pistol would be the strongest is in a compound so location of the enemy wouldn't be consistently an issue.

[upper hearth]

Also, I am not trying to come off as hostile if I was.

[hot vigil]

Variety for the sake of variety can just end of diluting the otherall identity/relevance of weapons in the game.
Long ammo pistols already dominates their contemporaries, so giving long ammo the option to dominate what little the nagant pistol have going for it would be a shame.

[hot vigil]

None taken

[upper hearth]

typically people who take silent nagant poison, take it with a sniper. So them not having a multi action fire arm or one that can be fanned a lot dont like to take. higher elo players would likely choose silent sparks pistol though. My point to that is, i dont think the two pistols really overlap

[hot vigil]

Huh, not my experience.
People take Nagant Posion Silenced bc they don't wanna deal with AI :b Not really bc of any its lack of killing capabilities.
So if you add a pistol that can deal with AI AND have better killing capability, that is what people would gravitate towards

[late wind]

Long pistols are already the defacto meta. Do we really want more of that?

I mean. I know people who can't shoot do. But I mean the rest of us who can actually aim...

[unborn dagger]

@outer wedge "I hope the event fails because of this one particular change made to fire ammo"

Dude chill out. You have cover, big chunks, range, salveskin.

[outer wedge]

did i wrote that? lol, probably i was raging from losing my bars to dragon-breath..

[brisk timber]

Wise words and very true.

In my opinion silenced weapons are already obnoxious and should be a category devs should be very careful to make new entrys.

The amount and frequency of new weapon releases is a bit bothering in itselfe allready

A good shooter doesnt need a new gun every few weeks - going forward crytek should be more careful. Ofc i like new stuff to play with like anyone else but those additions should come with thoughtfulness and rarely.

We already have the problem with that big gun pool and special ammo that some guns reaching into other guns niches and make them more and more irrelevant.

As example:
Cent vs Vetterli HV vs Krag
or
Winfield Vandal vs Cent Shorty

[hot vigil]

I agree on all of this, "variant" for the sake of variant just end up diluting the purpose of the guns overall.
LeMatt Uppercut seems like a good addition as it medium slot makes it an interesting choice between Obrez and Handcannons (if implemented well ofc).
But putting Sniper on the Krag just underserved the purpose for the Centennial, Krag would have been better if it got a marksman or deadyeye scope.

Or nothing at all ofc.

[next yarrow]

I'm still annoyed they made vetterli marksman tbh

[proud narwhal]

The matchmaking for random teamates has been absolutely GRUELING to play with. I somehow constantly get paired with teamates who are 4 star with half of my KD, while I end up fighting a full team of 5 or 6 stars with 2+ kd

i cannot possibly tell you how frustrating it is to play with teamates who dont communicate or do ANYTHING, they sit and wait until theyre pushed and then killed instantly because our squad got completely rolled

something has been wrong for a while now, and I feel like its been ever since skill based matchmaking was forced where i keep running into squads like this.

if they have a 2.0 kd and 4000 hours, THEYRE NOT FIVE STARS THEYRE SIX STARS WITH A FEW LOSSES

[next yarrow]

isn't this a problem with pubs in general? can't think of a game where the playerbase is consistently good tbh

[queen jungle]

@outer wedge Lootijg in trios is not broken, as it is intended that only two out of three players can loot these things.

Hunt is made and balanced with two players in mind and while trios offer some advantages, they also need to come with disadvantages to balance it out.

[analog willow]

I'd suggest making friends with players you like so you can have more matches with people of your skill level. Seems like you're at the top end of the matchmaking, so there are far fewer players who can match your MMR

[hot vigil]

I mean, it have deadeye too?

[next yarrow]

Deadeye I was fine with, but at the time I was mad that they doubled up on marksman scopes for medium weapons, and that they further cut into the Centennial's niche

[hot vigil]

Centennial is Sniper, the only Sniper for any gun that ain't long ammo, that is unique enough.

[next yarrow]

It's certainly very unique having a sniper with such little range.
It's unique but vetterli Marksman still does better at range

[hot vigil]

Well, it is more the issue that it have HV.
If you removed that from it, the weapon having a marksman scope would matter less.

[next yarrow]

The whole "betterli" thing ribbed me the wrong way. I feel like some guns get all the love and others are left to languish. See: vetterli/centennial, pax vs scott, and ironically, medium ammo versus literally every thing else

[unborn sandal]

Centennial basically comes with hv stock

600m/s is nothing to scoff at

That’s competing with long rifles

[worthy scroll]

Not to mention, poison and fmj

[next yarrow]

Yeah but 180m max range on a sniper is sad... Poison normal centennial is pretty fun, I agree

[worthy scroll]

I mean it is the best ammo for the cent

[crystal plume]

Fmj goes better with base centennial imo

[ivory crater]

You always use FMJ with Cent because medium ammo sucks
but if you use FMJ with Vetterli the MV is too slow
While Cent MV is still pretty good

[ivory crater]

Balance it out with economy

[ivory crater]

Silenced Vet isn't that big of an issue
Either you lose a lot of stealth by muzzle flash with HV or lose MV with FMJ
regular ammo doesn't do that much dmg at range
sure them getting free shots can be annoying but you can spot them if they are using HV or you are much harder to hit if they are using FMJ
blood indicators and death position are also a giveaway

[ivory crater]

There's only 1 long ammo medium so idk what ur talking about lol

[unborn dagger]

I've been there, especially with flechette ammo

[upper hearth]

I Don't think vet silence is an issue. I was only stating it is more scary to me than a sparks silence

@clever wing What servers and everyone you showed but the 1 team was within a star of you. which is the mark to hit. ideally everyone is the same, but its unlikely to happen with a smaller player base.

[unborn sandal]

Fmj is great on the vent silenced because the muzzle velocity is already significantly lower and the pen and damage dropoff increase help enormously due to the nature of silenced weapons

[hardy coral]

It does drop the velocity even more. On a winnie silencer it's flying at least 200 M/S which is awful.

Vetterli is like 240 I think. Not as bad.

[keen oak]

Fmj ammo is great on anything. It's a straight up upgrade to pretty much any weapon you put this on.

The fact that you can put this on any compact weapon and give it long ammo level of penetration is just ridiculous imo.

[alpine fractal]

Why does playstation get aim assist on hunters but xbox doesn’t? Like 90% of the people that get a headshot on me are playstation its pretty disgusting at this point….when will the devs address it

[unborn dagger]

Because they dont?

[alpine fractal]

Yes they do, it was proven

[unborn dagger]

Where?

[alpine fractal]

Playstation has aim assist on hunters and xbox doesnt

https://youtu.be/f3CuWpe5DXs

[unborn dagger]

Hmm never knew about that but then again I have aim assist turned off all the time so I would not have noticed regardless

[keen oak]

@normal gyro great suggestion

It should have more damage than Winfield tho

[royal horizon]

@soft flame Completly agree, the Uppercut works because it is a beefed up version of an existing pistol (the Conversion). I don't know what the Uppermat is trying to convey ? Other than that it's an unholy abomination

[normal gyro]

Well I'd leave the balancing side of it to the dev's to get that right, that's why I said 'on par' with the Winfield as that could mean a little more or a little less or even the same damage. Honestly that sort of fine tuning is something the dev's would have to play around with to get it right as you wouldn't want it to just replace the Winfield and you wouldn't want it being sub par to the Winfield - more on par with it... the choice to use it being more on personal preference/build - i.e. like taking it with Quartermaster and say a Spector Handcanon with slugs to get a double use out of Iron Devastator. We migfht even get a medium slot Slate at some point? In which case that would also synergise well with it.

[ripe basalt]

@wild cloak Hello Jarl, we request that you edit your feedback post into English per our #discord-rules. Thanks.

[celest cobalt]

I expect an apology

[ripe basalt]

@patent gorge Can you specify what your #feedback post is about and edit it? It's formulated as a #game-ideas or #game-questions and doesn't contain any feedback.

[clever wing]

@upper hearth

@upper hearth

[vagrant karma]

http://b23.tv/wKNvkCL

[upper hearth]

Which server(s) are playing on, and what time of day locally for you?

[upper hearth]

To the first imagine shown. team 1, 2, 3 and 4 I see. I assume your were in duos with a match mmr 3, or 3.5 (not shown) and you were either team 5 or 6. If I am accurate. Then from what is shown. Team 3 is the only team that didn't belong. Server population is a big factor. game popularity in that region and local time is another big factor. In my opinion 1 team not belonging isn't a big issue.

the second image where you cued up into duos v trios. That's just a big oof. But again all the previous factors I mentioned play a large role in that. For that to happen, people in your mmr bracket apparently were not queing at that time on the server(s) you were playing on.

[clever wing]

@upper hearth man, i play this game for years, always the same time (after i get back from work, like everyone else), and i NEVER see matches like this, it's happening since they implemented SBMM... They need to rework that (MMR System), sure, it's one team, but what do you think these guys were playing? (avtos, nitro, slugs) against 3 stars team, some of then just purchased the game, do you think these people will play again?? honestly? And it's not only one or two matches, it's happening EVERY DAY, people are stop playing. Scroll feedback channel, dozens of screenshots

[tribal wyvern]

They def fucked something up after last patch with the mmr.
Before we had option to use SBMM & to prioritise full match over mmr.
Now that option is removed, the matches seems to have very fucking wonky matchmaking

Because previous screenshots before that patch was a team mmr of 5 star vs 5.5.
Now it's literally solo players at 3star mmr fighting duos or trios of 5-6star

[royal grove]

i understand disabling open queue for better population on sbmm queue
these wild gaps are pretty bad though, and i don't think it's to prioritize full match either because i still get empty lobbies on NAE when i know for a fact there should be a ton of people playing here and NAW. probably tweaked it too hard in the direction fast queues

[vernal haven]

@celest spindle There's a "Switch Teammates" button for trios...

[celest spindle]

wait what where

[vernal haven]

Top of the card, but it only shows up when you have two teammates

[celest spindle]

i gotta be blind fr

[clever wing]

Exacly, the problem isn't population, or the time you play, it's the queue itself, Hunt is more popular than ever, but we are having these crazy broken lobbies everyday... MMR System need to be changed, the way it is right now contributes to these broken lobbies, because people can easly exploit it, drop the MMR, and have easy matches, even streamers are doing that, AnnoyedOne is a clear example of what im saying

[royal grove]

yup
he's funny but i don't think it should be as easy as it is for him to be doing that
and at least he keeps it fair and does goofy shit but you know other people aren't doing that
i'm happy with a five minute queue if it means my lobby is mostly full and mostly balanced

[karmic ivy]

These types always exist, why is it a problem per se? Its a people problem not a game problem.

[royal grove]

that's a pretty myopic way to think when the environment, the game systems, can and will incentivize or dissuade different behaviors and already do so on a dozen other metrics

[karmic ivy]

They have prevented much of the matchmaking "de-ranking" by making it easy to rank back up. You will only be in a low rank for a match or two before "boom", back where you belong. So what are you saying is the real problem here?

[royal grove]

that's good
i don't think it should be as easy as it is for him to be doing that as i said

[karmic ivy]

I am fine with it so long as it is even easier to rank back up where you belong. And it seems to be.

[royal grove]

the original topic can be found here #feedback-discussion message

[karmic ivy]

I don't see how its easy to stay low.

[royal grove]

well it's being done so it must not be that hard huh

[unborn sandal]

The the gun the chain pistol was based on is a full length chain rifle

[royal grove]

• every death is five deaths if you spam the necro button

[karmic ivy]

is it?

[green vault]

Yeah the stats are up to the devs to balance, there is lots of way to make it fit nicely I just gave one option of the numerous possibilities

[queen jungle]

@sour scaffold As per the devs, Hellhounds are supposed to be the greatest AI threat (apart from the boss).
But like all AI, they are way too easy to handle since the big nerf.

[sour scaffold]

""""""""""""easy"""""""""""""""""

i understand though

[zenith wagon]

What big nerf?

[next yarrow]

Pre 1.0 the ai was much more dangerous. Melee used more stamina (compare knife to knuckle knife, it was worse) and AI, especially armoreds did more damage and had more health

Armored used to bleed you on hit I think

I don't really remember all the nuances

[zenith wagon]

I see

[next yarrow]

Water devils were even worse too when they came out

[unborn sandal]

Except hives

Hives used to not be a threat

Now they go through walls and aggro from double the distance it seems

[worthy scroll]

Hives and hellhounds are cracked for no reason

[unborn sandal]

The hellhounds just get people with the bait jump and the fact that they are usually in packs

And hives are ranged

I think they’re balanced

Part of what makes hunt so dynamic

A hive at the wrong time can really screw you over in a fight

Got to be aware of your surroundings

[hot vigil]

@feral radish not sure if this is any help, but the damage tracker is buggy sometimes still sadly.

what gun did you use?

Also the games says the damage you dealt was thru a wall-bang, so that might be another sign it simply bugged out.

[feral radish]

I had the terminus 😭 and yeah It def wasn't through a wall. It says he shot me twice plus bleeding damage but I only ever saw him shoot me once when i rounded the corner. It was really weird.

[hot vigil]

Well, he did have a Caldwell, that thing can fire fast, sometimes I also get surprised how quickly I can take damage from fanning where it felt like I got hit by 2 bullet for 1 bullet. But you know, these servers are quite fuckywucky as of late.

[vernal haven]

There is...some kind of bug/server inconsistency that can very rarely manifest itself, and will allow someone to peek and get a killing shot without being visible on the other person's screen. There are records of it in the Discord here, but thankfully it's at least absurdly rare.

[queen jungle]

Hive'd bees have always been able to get through cracks in walls

[hardy coral]

Springfield bayonet is great fit and I'm surprised we haven't seen it yet. It won't be OP though since the martini riposte is not all that strong.

[tulip pulsar]

Adding the Buntline Special is actually a great idea!
OP: #game-ideas message

IRL it feels and looks much more usable, I think the photo in the message above stretches it a bit.

Basically it would be a Caldwell Pax with improved accuracy and damage over distance along with reduced recoil due to added weight. The velocity of .45LC Black Powder will increase with a longer barrel given more time for powder to burn.

Here is a video demonstrating this weapon: https://youtu.be/SepXf0iYzQU

[keen oak]

I only said damage should be higher as it historically uses bigger caliber if I am not mistaken. They can mess around with other stats like rpm.

Damage is not the only thing that defines weapon's potency so you went a little overboard with explaining stuff that I already know.

[unborn sandal]

Why did Finall thumbs down medium ammo buff

[unborn dagger]

@queen jungle They gotta add this in along with hanging bodies as another sound trap.

[queen jungle]

yes, we need more special monster variety, not their quantity

tired of seeing 3 hives together at some locations....

[bronze quail]

The game is already pretty full of soundtraps imo

[queen jungle]

Imo it would be better for the overall balance to nerf all other types of ammo instead of buffing medium and thus contributing to the power creep

[unborn sandal]

I suppose

[queen jungle]

@bronze quail my suggestion was not actually soundtrap, it's just zombie but main purpose is snare, control.

[craggy pike]

Made one change to my suggestion to make fmj more appealing

[late wind]

@queen jungle Don't get rid of crows, but just add bats on top of them. Especially in the day time! It would be awesome to see bats flying out of a window or tree or bush to potentially give away the location of all the ghillie suited hunters hiding in dark buildings or bushes/trees.

[queen jungle]

@late wind I suggested to remove crows ONLY during night and add bats instead. Crows are diurnal, not nocturnal birds.

[late wind]

I mean crows still exist at night and would still get spooked if you stepped on/near them. Just move them to the trees or something at night.

[queen jungle]

@late wind yes, they exist, they usually sleep in their nests up in the trees or whatever, they do not sit on the ground in the middle of the nowhere 😄

[brisk timber]

I actually love the bat idea
If you swap them to the trees the game could play completely different at night and be more balanced.
So if you're going inside the woods for hiding it would come with great risk at night.
Instead of roaming the undergrowth/bushes the roads would be clear of ravens.
This would also help people spot others in nightmaps.

[keen oak]

Nerf culture is not a solution to power creep.

Which is generous statement since Hunt doesnt really have a power creep problem.

Medium ammo has been left out of the meta pretty much since custom ammo got introduced or even a bit further. It could use a buff and a change to its drop off range makes sense

Since it shouldnt be the same as compact ammo at 20m

"Nerf everything else" because one ammo type is not in line is just silly

[next yarrow]

I'm ok with long ammo getting a nerf (like it is next patch) but I'd rather compact ammo as it is be the baseline power level than current medium. slightly better than current compact, even

[minor glacier]

I wouldnt care with long ammo being the best as it is meant to be

but they keep adding long ammo options to the game

we have like 9 or 10 long ammo options and only 5 or 6 medium / compact options

not excluding varients because that just doesnt count.

[queen jungle]

Both long ammo and compact ammo have been buffed by a lot since the introduction of custom ammo.

[next yarrow]

nerfing spitzer and fmj (and I suppose long incendiary if it becomes necessary next patch) is a much different argument than nerf all other types of ammo

[wintry zenith]

@tiny cobalt these weapons will already be in the tree in 1.13 update which will probably come on 21st

[tiny cobalt]

Ok, I was not aware

[hardy coral]

It got put into the meta via custom ammo though.

It's bad without FMJ.

[hardy coral]

Long isn't getting nerfed next patch.

Since ammo stacking is better for compact and medium guns.

[next yarrow]

That's true, lebel and some others are actually getting buffed pickups

[hardy coral]

Cent FMJ is pretty hard hit. Nagant carbine also.

Slightly more viable by themselves but not by much.

The already bad long ammo is getting nerfed: sparks pistol, martini and berthier.

[balmy spindle]

so basicly i played with my friend and when we finished game this popped out, my teamate clicked skip button and he eventualy got nothing he even killed 3 guys that round, i was waiting for 3 min and when they bring me back to lobby i was waiting for air, i didnt get my xp, kills wasnt count...

[frank lake]

^ same, looks like servers do not deliver atm:/

[clever wing]

@wooden goblet we are telling Crytek everyday about how broken matchmaking is right now... So far not even a response from then

[wooden goblet]

Yeah, it’s really dejecting and just simply un-fun. No other way to describe it.

[light badge]

we still don't have any actual confirmation it's the 21st or 22nd right? that's pure speculation based on DLC date?

[brisk timber]

Correct. People just guess so much that gossip start to sound like facts

[wintry zenith]

Well , my guess wasn't based on DLC date. I analyzed previous event teaser/trailer release dates and it seems final trailer will be released a week after the current trailer and the event will be coming a week after the final trailer.
Considering the 1.13 has to come sometime, it would be weekly reset 1 week before the event.
But it could be released a week later together with the event as the economy changes video showed battlepass in 1.13 version of the game.

[queen jungle]

@glad sorrel There is only one star difference between the teams, or am I missing something?

[charred pine]

@shrewd burrow The UpperMat is a medium slot weapon and the Caldwell Uppercut is a single slot weapon, you can't have a variant name that can be different sizes without having another variant name for the size as well (Deadeye Vandal).

[keen oak]

What buffs to long ammo? The only buff it got was ammo reserves from sparks.

And the only thing that is strong about compact is fmj.

Nerfing both solely because medium is left out is not the way to go.

In any case please explain to me why Medium ammo should have 20m effective range whilst compact weapons also have 20m it makes zero sense

[unborn smelt]

because medium ammo for the most part has a high enough base damage to sit at roughly 50% more range in performance, not by increasing the dmg dropoff but by "brute forcing" it via high base dmg.

[tribal wyvern]

Think the point is also the individual skill levels.
You got 2 4stars & 1 5 star, hes pretty high tho.

But the skill there is hardly fair. But we got to small playerbase to make shit fair anytime soon.

And also the fact that QP downranking is so powerful.
I went from 6 -> 4 fairly quick & had like 16kill streak.

18 actually

[unborn smelt]

also because the idea behind "medium ammo" is to mimic old very large but slow bullets.

Compact ammo basically mimics a smaller powder charge and a small projectile
medium mimics a smaller powder charge with a large projectile
And long ammo a large powder charge, or even smokeless powder charge behind a medium to big sized projectile.

Basically what happensed during the time when gun design wen't away from bigger bullets, to faster bullets

[keen oak]

Except "roughly" is less than 50% and you just bypass rpm where there are only slight differences between long and medium yet bigger between medium and compact in favor of the latter.

Medium is not really medium. It's just glorified compact and its not okay

[unborn smelt]

the Winnie 2 taps to chest at 43m a Vetterli at 66 for example

[keen oak]

Except that game design-wise medium ammo should sit between the two but doesn and a lot of people agree with that

Its a straight up fact

You just confirmed it by quoting the 2tap ranges

Medium is just glorified compact ammo and with its price tags its not worth it for the most part maybe except Scotfield Spitfire

So there

[unborn smelt]

43m + 50% is 64m

[keen oak]

For that price you can just take compact weapon and save

Or put in extra 200 for long

[unborn smelt]

so a vetterli 2 taps at roughly 50 larger range

[tribal wyvern]

Anyone that knows how to get around this incredibly obnoxious Steam overlay bug?
My friend is marked "invited", so i cant invite him

[unborn smelt]

sure you can - but compact isn't capable of 125+ dmg close up

which is a pretty important dmg threshold

I'm not saying medium ammo is balanced very well - but i disagree with the need for it to literally be in the mid all the way

[keen oak]

Well lets agree to disagree then

[unborn smelt]

IMO the basica idea of giving it lower dropoff range in exchange for higher base dmg is absolutely fine

[keen oak]

Because with the prices, the rpm and the effective ranges it doesnt make sense for medium ammo to be where it is right now in the meta

[unborn smelt]

yes but one could also nock long ammos absurd performance down a peg to achieve a better overall balance between the three

[keen oak]

Which can be achieved by buffing medium

Indirectly

Because rpm matters and it seems a lot of people bypass it as much as possible when making an argument

[unborn smelt]

yes RPM matters but medium ammo isn't bad on the RMP side at all

[keen oak]

And by increasing effective range of Medium and giving it more HV options of example you can drivelong ammo away from pushing compounds for instance

Which happens all the time

And they dont need to respect compact

[unborn smelt]

Winnie is at what 50 IIRC, Vetterli at 42 and Mosin at 34

[keen oak]

Exactly. Medium ammo's rpm is the only thing it has going for it

Considering damage ratios

But its not enough

Not a single medium weapon except Spitfire is meta

[unborn smelt]

Don't think so - the reason long ammo can push compounds so effectively is because of the high base dmg allowing it to OHK people that lost bars

[keen oak]

And those wont magically become meta if you just nerf long amm9

[unborn smelt]

turning any long ammo with 125+ dmg into a better nitro

[keen oak]

Not the only reason tho.

[unborn smelt]

well it sure as hecc isn't the RoF...

unless on the avto ofc

[keen oak]

It's the damage paired with muzzle velocity. Long ammo is near hitscan on compounds. You dont need to lead around 50m unless you use uppercut or martini

The only bottleneck for long ammo is aim and rpm

[unborn smelt]

yes you do.

[keen oak]

But rpm is offsetted by distance

[unborn smelt]

a lot of people play like this and many of those are than coming here to complain about hitreg because the underestimnated that you still need to lead

[keen oak]

Where the weapon can be used effectively

And medium doesnt have that

[unborn smelt]

not by a lot but you still need to lead

[keen oak]

Nor compact

But compact can spam

What can medium do?

[unborn smelt]

It can out RPM long up close - and out damage compact up close and on range

[keen oak]

In close range compact is straight up better

[unborn smelt]

yes ofc - it's meant to be for the most part

but that changes entirely when the enemy is on 125 hp

because then the vetterli can OHK up close

[keen oak]

And the only medium that touches that is vetterli which is not an argument for entire ammo

[unborn smelt]

and the vetterli outranges the Winnie by a good bit

[unborn smelt]

and the springfields

those deal 132 too

but the springie has diffrent issues

[keen oak]

Springfield damage falls of lf insanely fast to a point when it tickles

[unborn smelt]

yes but still not as fast as compact

because of the high base dmg

[keen oak]

After 50m it does nothing I've seen the charts

[unborn smelt]

then you read them wrong

[keen oak]

And in game

It tickles

[unborn smelt]

it has basically the same falloff as a vetterli (1m more to body)

So it 2 taps to body at 67m

[keen oak]

Plus its under 500ms so on a moving target good luck hitting upper chest consistently

Hunt is not played in a vacuum

[unborn smelt]

not saying it is

[keen oak]

Most of your arguments are vacuum sealed to tall about the range of two taps alone

[unborn smelt]

not even saying medium ammo is well balanced in the way it currently is IMO

[keen oak]

So what are you saying

[unborn smelt]

i just think the basic principle of balancing it with low range but compensating by high base dmg is fine

When medium sits at the half way mark in RPM, and in range/falloff - it's damage would need to go down to the half way mark too

which would mean all medium would roughly sit at 120 to 125 dmg

[keen oak]

In rpm it is closer to long than compact

Except Spitfire

[unborn smelt]

well that depends on how you compare it.

there's no single shot compact to compare it to

the Winnie, vs vetterli vs mosin, it's exactly in the middle

[keen oak]

No it is not

[unborn smelt]

winnie was 50 RPM, vetterli was 8 rpm less at 42, and mosin 34 (all without reload - jusr RPM)

[dusky tapir]

Check cycle time

RPM is pretty misleading as a stat

[keen oak]

Exactlt

[dusky tapir]

winnie is smth like 1.2 , mosin is 1.9

vetterli I forgor

( which proves Rangorok's point just fyi )

[keen oak]

Vetterli is around 1.6 tho

With some change

[unborn smelt]

1.5 according to ingame stats

[keen oak]

It may be

Now check in game

[dusky tapir]

the new stats are game accurate

[keen oak]

New how

[dusky tapir]

the whole part where stuff like "handling" is gone

and instead you get these ^

[keen oak]

Right

[keen oak]

Ok then that point I can take

Just fine

Except the damage part including rpm ration is out of whack

[unborn smelt]

Winnie 1,2, vetterli 1.5 (+0.3s) and Mosin 1.9 (+0.4s)

lebel is at 1.8

[keen oak]

Which is why people dont really play medium ammo

Among other things ofx

But meta-wise medium ammo is not where it should be

Whilst long ammo and compact is

[unborn smelt]

but if anythng that prooves it's in the middle, no ?

altho ngl a few stats are weird

[keen oak]

What

[unborn smelt]

i thought cent shot faster than a vetterli

but i may have missremembered

same for mosin vs lebel

[keen oak]

How

[unborn smelt]

the winnie has 1.2 sec downtime between shots - the vetterli a bit more, 300ms at 1.5sec and the Lebel has another 300ms longer at 1.8

[keen oak]

That is just the cycle alone bro how does that prove the gun itself is in the middle its only one stat

[unborn smelt]

vetterli apparently literally sits in the biddle of the RoF between a winnie and a lebel

[unborn smelt]

well that's what you need to 2 tap

reload is not very important for the RPM to 2 tap

[keen oak]

Bruv youre reaching for the skies just to make your point valid please dont forget muzzle velocities, effective ranges and what not when talking about what sits in the middle and what doesnt

With rpm alone you can not make balacing arguments for which gun sits where in the meta

[unborn smelt]

so you're telling me reload matters for shot, cycle shot

[keen oak]

What I am telling you from the start of our conversation is that medium ammo is outside of the meta

[unborn smelt]

yes velocity matters - but so does crossing the dmg threshold of 125 allowing a gun to set up OHK's

[keen oak]

And cycle time alone doesnt make it the other way

[queen jungle]

The individual levels are entirely irrelevant for the matchmaking process (and personally I'd like for individual stars to be removed entirely so only the Team MMR remains visible).

[keen oak]

And again I am talking MEDIUM AMMO not just one gun

[unborn smelt]

i never claimed it does - i tried to proove it sits in the middle between long and compact as far as comparable guns go

[keen oak]

Not really

[unborn smelt]

becuase well we have weird outliers as we have incredibly high RoF but low dmg compact and guns like the avto

[keen oak]

You make that argument based of off cycle time alone which isnt valid

[unborn smelt]

but as far as just a regular repeating rifle goes the ROF is basically nice in the middle

[keen oak]

Whilst you have drop off, muzzle velocity, damage across limbs

Its not in the middle

[unborn smelt]

yes limb modifiers (besides head) are the same for compact, medium and long

but the higher base dmg of medium allows it to 2 tap to arms unlike compact ammo

[keen oak]

Bro stop nitpicking I am talking all of those at once when measured in combat

[unborn smelt]

making it more reliable in that way

[keen oak]

Context

And you just take one thing out of ot

Hate conversations like that

[unborn smelt]

how do you measure it in combat - the devs are the one with actually well usable data

players, including me, have overall pretty biased experience

[keen oak]

Indeed

[unborn smelt]

but we lack the masses of data for the bigger picture devs collect in the background

[keen oak]

But what I am trying to tell you that when considering ALL THE FACTORS and not just cycles

Medium is not in the middle

Again ALL

[unborn smelt]

I don't consider just the cycles

[keen oak]

Because if I name drop then you will pick 9ne from the sentence

Like you did above

[unborn smelt]

i say it's quite important as that dictates TTK more than Rof + reload does

[keen oak]

Which varies on distance and medium is very short on thay

[unborn smelt]

same for the 125+ dmg threshold medium surpassed in 2/3 times

[unborn smelt]

I will try to argue with what argument you start ?

[keen oak]

There is a difference between arguing and straight up nitpicking

[unborn smelt]

you brought up RoF, so i wen't to compare RoF, and IMO the cycle time is more important becuase that directly dictates TTK where as ROF including reload does so only situationally when you need to reload between killshots

[keen oak]

Whilst I make an argument for ammo as a whole your argument is Vetterli ammo cycle is in the middle so its fine

[unborn smelt]

because i try to use comparable guns

[keen oak]

There is no point in further discussion

Good day

[unborn smelt]

you too, have a goiod day

[little jackal]

hear me out

vetterli avtomat

make medium ammo meta again

[unborn smelt]

easy make dolch medium ammo again

[tribal wyvern]

You don't solve a problem by hiding it xd.
Individual star is what makes up the team star, or should atleast. But again, it's simplified as hell, because theres no playerbase to make it anymore complicated.

I know transparancy won't help, as Cryteks tried it extensively. So maybe there is a case for hiding it.
With no arrows either

[unborn smelt]

yes individual stars make up team MMR

but it's not as easy as 2+2+5 / 3

the stars equate to a mmr number in the background ( between 0 and 5000) and those team MMR's are matched by MM brackets which fluctuate based on current region population

[tribal wyvern]

Why did they remove the option to just ignore the fact that the region is practically empty, but to get balanced matches?
Did ppl login at EU time 3am & queued "skillbased" & got empty matches or what?

Now ppl are forced into unbalanced matches because the region is smaller or less active

[unborn smelt]

I'm not sure they removed it - it may just be that it's not as decisice as people expecti it to / want it to

the game wouldn't do particularly well with basically empty games all the time, and being able to get empty matches semi reliably kind of undermines risk vs reward as that allows much rewards for basically 0 risk

[tribal wyvern]

Well the option is removed

[keen oak]

MM prioritizes full matches over balanced ones to make queues shorter for all so coupled with brackets and small pop servers most of your games will not be balanced.

[tribal wyvern]

Ye possibly

[keen oak]

They said there is a fix coming in the dev stream so we'll see

[queen jungle]

Individual stars are a representation of a range of ELO-ratings. So 5-stars is not equal 5-stars, 4-stars is not equal to 4-stars, etc.
Now, these ELO-ratings (not the stars) are taken by an algorithm which then calculates the team-MMR (which is visually represented by stars, but keep in mind stars represent a spectrum of MMR values) using various variables to match players as best as possible..

Having a 1-star difference in team MMR is quite negligible and entirely expected in a game with a player pool as small as Hunt.

[little jackal]

it's 1.5 in the picture, but even with 1, skill gap between 5.5 and 4.5 is subjectively way bigger than between say 4.5 and 3.5

I wouldn't be happy about that match too

[keen oak]

That is how it's supposed to work but you forgot to mention brackets

[queen jungle]

Brackets apply to team MMR as well and brackets do not equal stars, which is somethig Crytek has been emphasising since the very beginning of star-ratings

[keen oak]

Except brackets make it possible for 4stars to meet 6star players which is not "match players as best as possible" and imo a design that needs fixing

Individual stars should be the driver and not the team mmr

Otherwise a team of 6stars can duo and consistently meet 4 star trio players because their team mmr is lower and just smurf

It's happening as we speak

[unborn smelt]

yes it is - because MMR only matches teams of players - not individual players

otherwise Crytek would need to limit which friends you can team up with depending on your and your friends MMR

[keen oak]

Yes

[unborn smelt]

basically that weould mean Crytek would need to forbid a 6 star friend from playing with a 4 star friend

[keen oak]

Which is what non-skillbased match making could be used for

[tribal wyvern]

QP mmr dropping intensifies if that happens

[keen oak]

But it got removed

[unborn smelt]

people dropping the game happens when if that happens

[keen oak]

And now we have 6stars smurfing on 4stars and its just bad for the game. People

[unborn smelt]

Imagine how bad the player retention is if you have to entirely disable "fair matchmaking" to play with your new and thus lower MMR friend

[keen oak]

Buddy I am well aware I play other games with ranked and unranked matchmakimg

[unborn smelt]

the vast majority of people would not stick to a game that puts you up against everyone with potentially fair matchmaking once your're 100+ hours in

[keen oak]

And those retain more players

[keen oak]

Huh?

[unborn smelt]

what do you mean "Huh ?"
If a new player joins a game to play with his friend - and they are forced to activate the yes "match me with absolutely anyone" option just to be able to play together, instead of just balancing the combined team MMR that seems like a really bad idea to me

[keen oak]

Except that games that have this system have more players xD

[unborn smelt]

for example ?

[keen oak]

Separating "ranked" games from "unranked" is very common

[unborn smelt]

ranked vs unranked isn't necessarily the same as MMR and no MMR

[keen oak]

There would be no ranked without mmr

[unborn smelt]

yes

hunt has no ranked

and still tracks a MMR in the background for better matchmaking

[keen oak]

And if you have a mmr system without separating highly ranked players from the ones in the middle it breeds frustration

And it happens here and now

And games which separated the two somply dont have this issue

[unborn smelt]

yes - it does breed frustration. The important part however is is there a better solution available, and what other issues might that solution create

[keen oak]

Well current situation is worse

[little jackal]

imo it worked pretty fine on eu (maybe other populated regions too) before the update, and now it's just worse without any good reason. At least the reports in here indicate so

[unborn smelt]

looping back to my example from before where i try to point out that needing to overcome the inition potential 100's of hours of gameplay to choose the "fair matchmaking" option to play with a friend may be a massive negative feature

[keen oak]

What should happen is bringing back non skillbased matchmaking and make elo ranges

[unborn smelt]

becuse having friends playing the same game is one of the key features to player retention

[keen oak]

For people to plat woth one another to create fair and balanced matchmaking

[keen oak]

You'd push one button and still be able to play with friends

And competitve games that separate ranked from unranked retain more players

[unborn smelt]

yes knowing full well you have to disable any form of "fairer matchmaking" in the meantime - so your 2+2+6 star team has to accept getting matched with 6+6+6 star teams

or, hypothetically a 2 star team rating has to accept to play with 6 star rated teams to play together

[keen oak]

Its a rather extreme example that never really happened before

And yea it would be better than what you have now and other games with higher numbers that introduced ranked and nonranked queue prove it works

So there

[unborn smelt]

Do they tho ?

[keen oak]

It may not fit to your liking but that is the reality of gaming industry today

They do

[unborn smelt]

i beg to differ...

[keen oak]

You can beg to differ the facts xD

Ok

[unborn smelt]

you trying to pass it off as a fact doesn't make it a fact tho.

[keen oak]

Google some numbers then

And you'll see

[unborn smelt]

I'm not saying i'm factually right because we lack proper information to proove or disproove it as a fact

and i suspect the same for your claims

[keen oak]

As I said google some titles and find out for yourself that what I am telling is true

[unborn smelt]

titles such as ?

you before were so adamant about looking at the big picture - now maybe playernumbers in other games may also have large diffrent contributing factors

[keen oak]

CS:GO, Valorant, League of Legends, Call of Duty had it too at one point

[unborn smelt]

for example wildly diffrent genre, so a matchmaking option has to work drastically diffrent and on diffrent circumstances

[keen oak]

So it is frustrating when someone else does it?

Oh my

[unborn smelt]

i'm not frustrated at all, it just strikes me as odd

[keen oak]

Yes those are different games, yes those solutions require specific adjustments to Hunt

But numbers prove its better to have a two than a one way street

At it is the preference of the industry as a whole

So it is a big picture

If you look at it from the right angle

[unborn smelt]

doing some googling apparently CS:GO uses SBMM in unranked and ranked, you just don't earn rank in unranked matches

so i'm not sure that is a good example to proove no SBMM works well to increase player numbers

or has no negative impact on retention

[keen oak]

In fact there are very few, competitive games that went over 40k player mark without implementing a separation of matches that affect your rating and those that dont

Whilst the games with matchmaking off could vary in ranges of more than a 1 star

The ones that are sbmm shouldnt go higher than 1

Otherwise its not really skill based matchmaking

Its just matchmaking

In a sense that it exists

But its all over the place

[unborn smelt]

Valorant too uses SBMM in unranked

[keen oak]

Except there it makes sense because they have league ratings

You dont have league ratings here

Youre reaching again buddy

[unborn smelt]

but then it's not a great example to say "No SBMM works in other games"

because it still uses SBMM

it just doesn't put a big rank number in your face while doing so

[keen oak]

The point is you have a form of separating the good from the medium from the bad and a healthy balance put in place with sbmm and/or league system

Hunt only has sbmm

So it should be separate

And those games can serve as an example

[unborn smelt]

yes - because it want's not actual competetive rank system

[keen oak]

Because if a plat can suddenly play with silver then its a problem

But in here its fine?

No its not

No matter how you paint it

[unborn smelt]

the MMR is only there to match just player encounters (not wins or bounty) as evenly as possible without too much loss in other areas

how strict MMR is and should be is absolutely up for debate.

[keen oak]

Its not strict tho

[shrewd burrow]

the 1 uppermat enjoyer

[keen oak]

Reddit is flooded with pics of really poorly matched games

[unborn smelt]

But that's quite literally what you try to force onto lower MMR players that want to play with a friend

[keen oak]

This discord has some as well

[unborn smelt]

You say they should turn off SBMM to do so

[keen oak]

The current system needs changing its not fine

And separating sbmm queues could be the remedy

[unborn smelt]

hence me saying this will likely negatively impact player retention

[keen oak]

Whilst creating games that affect the eating and those that dont

[shrewd burrow]

do you guys use huntstats?

[keen oak]

It wont its just your preference

[unborn smelt]

I do not - no

[shrewd burrow]

its a tool that shows ur games in more detail and shows things like exact mmr

ive been using it to check the reddit claims and ive had maybe 2 outliers in 73 games

were any team had an mmr difference of 100 or more

[unborn smelt]

It does depend on region and time

[shrewd burrow]

maybe its just the region im in but this is a complete non issue in NA east, i could see this being a prob in like australia servers

[unborn smelt]

because bracket size scales dynamically with current population (which of depends on your regions poulation and your regions prime time)

I have basically no issues in EU either

but then again NA and EU are the biggest regions afaik

[shrewd burrow]

its 2 choices, make players wait or find them matches

[unborn smelt]

more outliers are expected in other with the worst offenders being australia and south america

[shrewd burrow]

and when theres 200 ppl on a server making someone wait for a match would take forever

[unborn smelt]

which afaik are the lowest pop regions

[shrewd burrow]

^

they should just go back to no mmr tbh

[unborn smelt]

yeah - that's why i say the SBMM tries to match teams (not individual people) as fairly as possible, without jeopardizing queue times and match fullness too much

[shrewd burrow]

these ppl bitching would have the same experience if sbmm was never added and would complain about it

[unborn smelt]

Crytek in the past experimented with longer wait times for matches and received massive negative feedback

[shrewd burrow]

i play solo v trio 90% of the time and the diff in mmr between solo and trio is insane, its only like 150

i ge

i get a 150 mmr reduction

[unborn smelt]

I still think they should and will look into optimizing the balance of those parameters and maybe the can come up with a good new idea for SBMM

[shrewd burrow]

for matching

[keen oak]

I have no issues with it either since I play in EU but people in NA and other, less populated regions are getting full 6star team on a 2 4star and one 5 star trios xD

It happens

[shrewd burrow]

i mean sbmm is 100% based on kills and nothing else. but it definitely has some stacking with how many kills you get per match

[keen oak]

Pretty much since nonskillbased matchmaking got removed the regions with less players have really bizarre ratios in games

[shrewd burrow]

I almost never see other 5 stars or 6 stars in my lobbies

[keen oak]

Where do you play tho

And how do you queue

[unborn smelt]

Your MMR is based entirely on a number that tracks kills vs deaths (to KD tho - it uses an ELO system instead)

[shrewd burrow]

NA East, but i queue central to play with friends sometimes

[keen oak]

And what is your mmr

[shrewd burrow]

still no issues

[normal horizon]

it only had no matchmaking for 8 months in the beginning, not sure if that is a great idea

[shrewd burrow]

2714

[unborn smelt]

SBMM used that MMR and modifies it depending on team composition (reductions for going solo or vs bigger teams and premade vs random teams)

and your MMR decays a bit when you don't play for a long time

[shrewd burrow]

wow, i didnt realize how short of a time there was no matching

feels like it was a lot longer

[normal horizon]

there has been sbmm since november 2018

[shrewd burrow]

the more you know

1-10 scale how hard is rotjaw

[normal horizon]

you'll find out soon enough

[normal gyro]

@crude karma Your idea about becoming a human fire cracker... Just pull the pin and run wiht the nad until it detonates. I think you want to be able to run, explod AND still be able to shoot and/or melee... that's a bit OP imo.

[bronze quail]

i think that most people thinks that sbmm was introduced when stars where introduced

but its not like that, sbmm was already into the game, by introducing stars they only made visible the "ranks" cause players kept asking devs to show mmr instead of the old arrows

[keen oak]

That is true

[brisk timber]

I think most people doesnt even realise how needed SBMM is and how often it works undetected in the background and doin gods works.

Back in the day cs 1.6 and the like that was wild west
Sometimes getting on server you already sighted when you saw some names because you know now you will only be cannon fodder

Im glad that SBMM exists and would rather not have it turned off at all.
If SBMM was invisible nobody would bat an eye i bet

[next yarrow]

I both fullly understand what you mean, understand, (and experienced it when hunt was in alpha) and yet, still miss the old ways

Sometimes getting your ass kicked is a learning experience

[brisk timber]

Other way around:
If you had 2 queues
One with SBMM on but invisible / the other no SBMM at all
people would probably enjoy the invisible SBMM more

[brisk timber]

Yea i think the turn SBMM off button was good tho
i just think having no SBMM as the baseline would be reeeally bad

i really wonder why they changed it tho

[next yarrow]

I agree, I'm just nostalgic for something that was frankly often worse than the new systems. I must be getting old.

Community servers were lit though.

Gen Z will never experience the community engender being on a TF2 meme server hosted from an Estonian guy's basement at 3 am

[brisk timber]

I think SBMM is not at fault tho
Its low population and how people get matched.
Instead of waiting a few minutes the matchmaking process values a short queue higher.
And a group MMR should rather gravitate to the highest MMR player in the group - as example:
If you have 2 players - 3 star + 6 star - the middle would be 4,5star MMR - but it should gravitate towards the 6star player and set the group MMR around 5 star.

Sure the lower star player gets thrown a bit more into cold water
But the higher star players needs to buckle up and go carry!

[unborn smelt]

To be fair that can be a good thing, to a degree.
it really depends on where your game has weaknesses you need to buffer out (for example weak player retention, or is it not challenging enough)
games entirely without SBMM have a kind of "draw" on their own - but usually not for the broad audience nor for player retention

Tarkov is a great example IMO - people are drawn to tarkov and quite a few stick with it, but it's not new player friendly maybe not even player friendly at all

but it has enough depth in gun customisation and the looting aspect to still draw a big enough crowd despite having no SBMM

[brisk timber]

Yea thats already what i assume for Hunt.
Theres certainly some analytic at work at crytek that has the numbers down for how long people are willing to wait to find a match.
And i guess he already operates on the edge.
People nowadays really have a short fuse.

[unborn smelt]

and the lack of SBMM absolutely works for tarkovs feeling and asthetic

but just because it kind of works there - dosn't mean it's automatically good elsewhere

[brisk timber]

#feedback message

post like this tho baffle me

what is there to fix

Theres is one team with 6'stars

Sure it could be improved but i guess the 6*stars wouldnt just find no matches

On the other hand i was always glad meeting higher MMR players

[unborn smelt]

They are likely looking at the individual player mmr

where there's 2 teams of 4+4+5 vs a team of 6+6+5 stars

and the diffrence between Team 1 and Team 3 is 1,5 stars

[brisk timber]

if anything than team 3 can complain :))

I dont know what metrics are at works there but i guess the only thing to get rid of it is stretch the queue window so players with equal MMR have a chance to drop in the same pool for a match

Im from EU and i basically never have this problem tho

[unborn smelt]

well that's for crytek to figure out, which parameters can they tweak to improove the situation without creating too much negatives elsewhere

[brisk timber]

Requeue is what people already do anyway - but at the same time complaining about long queue times.
You cant summon people out of thin air tho. its a bit paradox.

[unborn smelt]

requeueing doesn't have the desired effect tho according to Crytek

what happens is you join a lobby - leave said lobby just for it to be filled up and started and you again being in an empty lobby which needs to be filled up again

[brisk timber]

Yea logically you always lose the people that dont requeue and they end up in empty like matches.
Where the people who requeue pool together i guess.

[brisk timber]

Well it doesnt fill up tho - it just starts. Not full.

[unborn smelt]

more or less yeah

what i mean is it doesn't get "more fair" by requeueing

[brisk timber]

Yea you trait every upside for a full lobby.

[unborn smelt]

the lobby you left will be filled if possible by what the bracket deems similar enough skill

if not possible it starts not full tho

[brisk timber]

the requeue in my opinion creates more problems then just letting the timer run out

[unborn smelt]

you as the requeueing one just are in a new lobby waiting for new players, while the ones waiting before (from the lobby you left) already are in a server and thus can't contribute to more people in queue and thus better balanced matches

[brisk timber]

Maybe getting rid of the god forsaken red bar would be better 😄

getting a match when a match is ready

Without a red bar the internal algorythms could also decide on the fly how to shuffle things
Waiting to long? extend the MMR pool
Not enough equal MMR players? Increase queue time

its a bit like making SBMM invisible - people wouldnt see it so people wouldnt complain

when i think about it - even CSGO has a timer ticking up instead of a bar running down

people could decide for themselfes if they are done waiting

[unborn smelt]

mayhaps that's a good idea

[old ocean]

Since my feedback got removed. I'll say here: Boss compounds should always have health kits, ammo and a tool of some variety. More often than not now, they have none of them at all. Sucks ass

[brisk timber]

did you run into scrapbeak lately more often? the compound is empty of stuff because he did steal it all
gotta hit him to drop that

Usually the other bosses have that stuff lying around pretty oftenn

From my personal subjective experience the spider is the boss where i find items especially meele weapons the least

[lethal silo]

@night perch I like the changes you have in mind mostly the Dolch and nitro I have also made a suggestion to make it medium ammo

[night perch]

Ty, i feel like it would benefit the game to get them on par with the other weapons. Them being overpowered have hurt them and the game for too long i think

I understand why Crytek waited so long as it would completely change their identity, but it is overdue

[lethal silo]

I also think it's overdue but let's see with the new ammo balancing for all guns some weapons will become better like the boneheim

[night perch]

The problem is that most of the hardcore playerbase have been abusing them for years (like streamers) so they are opposed to any change regarding them

You see it with the difference of use, in 1 to 4 stars, most people don't have enough money to play them, but in 5 to 6 everyone has millions of hunt dollars so they have the monopole of overpowered weapons and want it to stay that way

[lethal silo]

I tested it on test server the dulch will always get 3 bullets back from ammo boxes so making it medium ammo and you will always get one extra bullet is not that big of a deal in my opinion

you could even just keep the price of the weapon but just make it medium ammo will not change that much I think? because you will always get 4 bullets meaning even if you combine it with a rifle like the Springfield you will still only get four bullets meaning if you just shoot everything because you can't hit anything when you finally need to get more ammo your screwed

[lethal silo]

a few streamers I have watched like psychotic ghosts hate balancing by price because yes the high ranking players who always win and always have money does not care how much it cost to buy a gun and will just buy it always

and newer players don't get to try out powerful guns so when they finally have enough money to try it they are not able to use it correctly

hopefully shooting range will actually help with that? but anyway yeah I think it would be a good idea to just decrease the price of all three of these guns

[hot vigil]

Dolch is fine (maybe overpriced) rn. It doesn't need buffs.

20 bullets are plenty to begin with. Poor Bornheim doesn't even get that much.

[lethal silo]

by the way with the new double barrel medium ammo rifle we're getting maybe that could show???? in a way??? making the Nitro long ammo could be a good idea or at least change how it works in regards to damage and it's aperture sites

[night perch]

The Dolch seems to me like the least problematic of the trinity of shame, the only problem that it has currently is its fire rate which makes sense being a semi auto but it makes it impossible to balance, that's why i think making the fire rate 0.6 would be fair, making it an Officer with better performance but less spam

[lethal silo]

I don't think the dolch should get more ammo it should just also have 10 reserve like the bornheim

[hot vigil]

point is more, it doesn't need a buff to its bullet economy.

[night perch]

Yes, exactly, with the Drilling coming it would just take the place of a long ammo coachgun were Caldwell Rival is the shotgun and Drilling medium rifle

[lethal silo]

or even just give it the treatment of the high fire rate Pistols and decreased damage so you need to hit 3 times in chest to kill but that would then also justify it becoming medium ammo and making it cheap again

[night perch]

I looked it up and the damage isn't that big, it changed long ago from being 110 to 97 (which is the exact same as the officer)

[lethal silo]

it is getting a buff it will always get 3 ammo right now when the update comes out so making it medium ammo would not change that much in regards to that but yes it doesn't need a buff in regards to that

[hot vigil]

It would be a buff bc normal ammo is more available than special ammo.

A pick up point provided 3 ammo boxes of normal ammo and 1 special ammo box.

So it would be a huge buff

Dolch refilling 12 ammo

[hardy coral]

Dolch, non precision, is already bad.

Why pay so much more for something that is only marginally better than the officer?

[hot vigil]

Bc it used to be much better than the officer.

[night perch]

yes, it suffers from having been overpowered

[hardy coral]

It did, it was annoying then but not OP either. Dolch P is the problem.

[lethal silo]

that's why we talk about it should get a buff by making it medium ammo

[hot vigil]

0 recoil Dolch was a problem.

Also people forget that Dolch reload used to be faster.

5s for a full clip and 1 bullet pr. second for partial reloads.

[lethal silo]

the same goes for the bornheim and so many other guns which veterans have PTSD of but I feel like that's a s*** excuse because newer players don't care about what all the veterans players experience was because that is in the past and the game has changed significantly over the five years

[night perch]

What i advocate for is :
Make Dolch's fire rate 0.6 to make it a bit less spammy than the Officer
Make it Medium
Reduce its price

Then you just have the equivalent of a Pax Officer

[lethal silo]

yes and it would only be slightly better than a Spitfire because it has four more bullets in chamber but it would deal less damage have two less bullets in reserve and cost more

[night perch]

Regarding the Bornheim, i believe it highlights another problem that have been plaguing the game for a long time, but look at the negative bombing when you just talk about the three most broken weapon in the game

People aren't ready to talk about problems

I simply hope Crytek cares enough about the game to make the right necessary changes without taking into account people whining

[hardy coral]

Bornheim is getting a decent buff with the patch. Match will be quite strong to pair with most guns.

[hot vigil]

I would say that guns like the Avto and Dolch is just very "anti-Hunt".

[hardy coral]

Avto isn't OP, it's terrible designed.

[night perch]

Yes, from their core they don't fit, that's why they need to be totally changed to work

[lethal silo]

I feel like the negative bombing can show what people think? but also just group mentality?

I often scroll through suggestions and I completely ignore suggestions with ovon 30 negative on less there's like also 30 positive or think about it I feel like it's very hard to determine what people actually think because some people don't even care what you are talking about they read the title and then they move on they don't read what you are actually suggesting and if they do they might not like the wording you are using and that can lead to a negative

[night perch]

Dolch is fine though, but Avto and Nitro are more problematic

[hardy coral]

Avto sadly can't be removed since it has skins.

[night perch]

The problem with Avto is the fire rate, it would be fine between 0.6 - 1

[hot vigil]

Don't think there is total change that could keep them in game and still work tho.
Bornheim is the "fair Dolch" in my opinion, just give it 5 more bullets in reserve.

[hardy coral]

Suppose you could keep most of the model as is and change it to be just a mosin drum.

[hardy coral]

The problem is that it's random.

[night perch]

and it would still be auto as you don't need to click more than once

[night perch]

I made a suggestion for the three of them a bit higher in the suggestion tab

[hardy coral]

Mosin drum as a sort of fun weapon instead of having avto would be fine.

[night perch]

that's true

[lethal silo]

I kind of wish sometimes you had to specifically say "why you disagree with the suggestion" and give a actual reason beyond "I don't like that weapon or I don't like what the person is saying or I don't care" you cannot give a negative reaction with out actually stating a reason because there is some people who just straight up don't like for example suggestions about different type of content or even the person who suggesting something

[hardy coral]

Nitro being changed to instead be a sort of double barrel sparks instead but still keeping it's anti-AI power would be good too.

[night perch]

yeah, i think so

but suggesting it, most people seems to disagree

if those people has even read the thread before disliking it

[hardy coral]

These sort of top tier weapons don't fit hunt as is.

Legacy of even the 100 health tier 1s arguably.

[night perch]

Yes

The revered timeline where shooting someone with a Mosin was most likely a one shot in the torso

[hardy coral]

Dolch gets the nerf hammer, somewhat deservably, but the nitro is left alone.

[night perch]

My biggest problem is with the Nitro

It was my favorite gun in the past and i find it horrible to play now

Not in term of performance, but in terms of feeling

The shitty aperture and mad sway makes the weapon unpleasant and doesn't tackle the problem of it being a 300 meter one tap

its like : "Your car is going too fast, we will make it ugly and pricey to compensate but not touch the engine"

[lethal silo]

I both agree but also disagree

like let's be serious real life bounty hunters fighting supernatural would use the most modern technology unless they are very traditional Hunters who want to use specific means to fight beyond it also being cheaper

the aesthetic of the game is slowpaced so high rate of fire weapons and spamming bullets at things it's not really something which suits Hunt but it is a part of it

[hot vigil]

Still don't think Dolch should be medium (or exist), but think the slowdown on the firerate and making it cheap would be -fine-. Tho Crytek do have some weird loyalty to keeping true to their real world contemporary, so if Dolch fire fast, it needs to fire fast.
The avto would be more manageable to to control with slower fire-rate, issue is that the gun is long ammo more than anything, making wallbang spray and pray or hitting torso/limb insta kills very consistent, there is little workaround for that.
And Nitro is mostly fine, just remove shredder ammo. The gun was good bc of its close range damage (especially when it could 1-tap leg shot too) and good ironsight, attaching the sight on it made it harder to use and the drop of the bullets didn't really benefitted too greatly for distance shooting, but with shredder the nitro is perfect for medium/long range shooting kinda making the downside of the apature sight an upside.

[hot vigil]

Hunt could have been set in pre-1896 and then they wouldn't have access to a weapon like the Dolch.
The date of 1896 is set at that time bc the devs wanted the Dolch in the game.

[night perch]

Yes, but with the coming update regarding long ammo, wallbanging should be relatively kept in check with the ammo being more difficult to get

but you're right though, in the trinity, Avto is the most problematic of them all

[lethal silo]

yes that's something that's also important to take into consideration the time period of the game is moving forward it's not just staying forever in the time of 1896 every year of content is a in universe year to my understanding so we are probably somewhere around 97? or 98? right now at least

[hot vigil]

Well, then it have the issue of "damn I had to run into the avto first while it still had bullets".

[night perch]

For the Nitro, i find that making it a long ammo drilling would be really good for the weapon without breaking its niche

and it could be the only long ammo rifle with bleed too, which would make it particular

[lethal silo]

yes making it the long ammo drilling would be nice

[hot vigil]

Yeah, but that is also just a choice.
Think it was a mistake that the devs sat the game so long ahead.
And it is fine, people makes mistakes, but many (including myself) get drawn to Hunt bc of the "primitive" revolver action and I think the devs underestimated that.

[hot vigil]

I would fear a long ammo Nitro more than current nitro tbh.

[night perch]

when is say long ammo, i mean that you get rid of the one tap potential in the torso

[hot vigil]

Less recoil?

[lethal silo]

I get also attracted to the game because of the weapons like seriously I only started playing the game because I love lever action and single shot weapons in real life and also bolt action but I really hope at some point Hunt will take place in World War 1 which would include automatic firearms

[night perch]

what i envision for the nitro would be a two barrel Martini

[hot vigil]

god please no

[hot vigil]

What would the Martini be then? Like what role would that serve?

[hardy coral]

Nitro could remain as is just with less sway, maybe a nicer sight and less recoil but instead not one shot.

[night perch]

Different kind of statistics, ammo and price

What i envision the Nitro as is a bridge between Sparks/Martini and Mosin/Lebel

An inbetween

[lethal silo]

I was thinking of a double barrel spark

[hot vigil]

Martini already have a hard time staying relevant, feel like getting "Martini, but with quick follow-up shot build in" would just outclass it too much.

[night perch]

Yes, Martini sucks, but it sucked already without the Nitro competing

I feel like it would not change much

[lethal silo]

of course I hope at some point they continue the universe of Hunt showdown in other parts of the world hopefully Europe and this would be a different game not Hunt showdown but like Hunt showdown 2? fighting at the front lying?

[night perch]

Its like the Springfield, it is only used because its cheap