feedback-discussion

[quaint swan]

and your definition of ''having fun'' is killing bounty, killing grunts, avoiding pvp at all cost.

[valid ingot]

Got the bounty and nobody is here to stop me? free extract. Not my job to look for trouble when im marked on the map. If anyone fancies that, sure do that, but i will do my own.

[quaint swan]

💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀 💀

this guys gotta be baiting

i stand by this point. the game needs more features to reward pvping, you are right - as of now, there is no point in pvping. you only get punished for it, and it's dumb that it is so

[valid ingot]

Nope, im serious. Sometimes i may look for trouble but usually my goal is to grab the bounty and leave. If PvP happens on the way or at lair, sure. But no point to look for trouble. Other teams failed to stop me, it's their problem, not mine.

The best feel of this game is it gives you so much freedom what to do. Wanna fight players? go for it! Want to sneak the way to boss lair, kill it quickly and then run? Sure! Want to just enter the bayou to do some challenges or grab a little bit of xp for gun unlock/mastery? Let's go! Love it

Heck, can even spend a game roleplaying a bush once in a while

Oh yeah, some time ago I had a nice duel in Pelican Prison with a solo when I also was a solo. During the fight 3 duos decided to join in. We joined forces, killed the duos and split the bounty and left. Good times

Yup

[little carbon]

Not really. You only get punished for unnecessary engagements. For example attacking a team thats unaware of you while the banish has started elsewhere. Not the smartest fight to take. In that situation your job isnt to take any fight you see but using the banishment time to get to a position to stop the bounty from extracting. Also for example when fighting a third team at the bosslair and you see the bounty trying to run, its smart to disengage that fight to pursue the bounty. PvP isnt the goal, Finall is right there, but it is the utimate tool in Hunt. You will not get far without it, unless your opponents dont know how to play.
And PvP is rewarded most of the time if used right, simplest situation is the reward being the bounty. Other situations might be taking out a team quickly early on in the match which, especially in trios, will reduce the amount of resistance you will have later on drastically.
Its always about maximising your odds of getting the bounty. Just queuing up casually over and over and throwing oneself at matches without strategy isnt going to make someone win in Hunt. Playing deliberate and precise will improve the odds significantly.
And yes, if i pick the bounty and no one is around, why should i wait for them to come? They had ample time during the banishment. You can literally cross the map diagonals in that time and them not being there is by strategic misplays most of the time.

[little carbon]

Especially considering that running is only an option if the attacking teams misplays. Against a good team, running will not be an option. (Unless you manage to down someone or create an opening in another way, which however isnt what people usually call running)

[quaint swan]

🥱 boringass game mechanics ngl. I told my piece what can improve the game to be actually fun n that's it. Bounty is the thing that should be ''just an option'' - not pvp. Everytime my team picks up a bounty we might disengage from the bountyhouse, only to find better spot to fight in. The pvp is an active goal, killing anyone that wants to engage us, not running out with the shitty bounty extraction. Where's the fun in sticking tail between your legs and running out ''just because we can, why should we wait for enemies to catch up?'' that's such a dumb mechanic that should not exist. Every kill should legit reward you with considerable value. Every kill while carrying bounty should be tremendous value. Look at quickplay - how come there's a circled area you can roam around only? Surely you'd say that needs massive reworking, I want to take the objective and run out, I don't want no pvp ! Then in bounty hunt there is no such restriction. How come? These devs gotta make up their mind if it's a pvp or pve game then.

[echo forum]

I think they just need a new game mode because BH is kinda played out. I personally think the changes have been worse over the years. DSB is just insane. Compounds don't have enough fast entrances. 90% of the buildings can be easy mode camped because they only have 3 entrances. Many compounds funnel you into "lanes" if you want to be aggressive meaning it's going to be way easier for a defender to take a shot at you. I wish we could mod hunt to have plant/defuse and combine some compounds into maps. The dream.

[runic crypt]

My point is if a system looks at KD, then there will be massive discrepancies. What if someone is slightly above the average in 4 stars but not good in 5 stars? Their KD will constantly bump them into 5 stars until they die enough times to go back to 4 stars. Then, after a while and if they get better, they will remain in 4 stars way longer than they should till they bump up their KD into the next rank. All in all, if KD is counted then the game doesn't care who you killed as long as you kill more. If you kill 10 1* players you will be put in a higher ranked lobby than if you kill the best player in the game 5 times in a row, which doesn't make sense. KD just shows how many times you kill divided by how many times you died, that hardly tells the quality of the kill.

[quaint swan]

Their KD will constantly bump them into 5 stars until they die enough times to go back to 4 stars.

Isn't this literally how the game works right now?? xdddd The moment my match MMR is 4.5 stars my team's instadead. the moment it goes to 3.5 or 4 star overall match mmr = its playable again. So I don't see how it's any different now then based off what u're saying. * could be based then on last month's KD, if you return after a month off - you'll just have to start over, which yes could mean you fighting 2* players in the first match, and if you really are that good still after a month off you'll be placed in high * lobby in the next one. Or it could look at the last 3 months KD to avoid people ''taking a month off to get noob lobbies''. There. everything can be fixed with a bit of thinking which people seem to lack. They just tunnelvision one thing ''KD based stars'' - NAAH ThAT WOULdNT woRK !! are you sure about that. even the current system could work if it didn't rank you up so hard for killing someone above your * rating

[quaint swan]

Just because I landed a lucky nade on some 5star doesn't mean I'm ready for the next championship my next match bruh. Just because I got this lucky shot on this burned down 5* guy doesn't mean it either. The kills in this game are often not ''clean'' yet you get ''rewarded'' as if they were. imho consumable kills shouldn't even count as kills, only actual weapon ones should. Had so many games I land a nade on an entire trio team - now what. I'm a certified 6star gamer, right.
not to even mention IF you are 5 or 6stars, you can que solo vs trios and everyone else will be below your * ranking meaning if you die to them, you will be placed in lower ranking while they will be placed higher (and this is also quite a common thing people seem to do in this game, deranking)

[runic crypt]

Yes it might happen now, but the point is the current system ALLOWS for adjustments to curb this issue while your system cannot. It will always be a simple breakpoint in a KD system. And again, KD just values quantity over quality. Even if the current system is as bad as a KD system, it at least tries to value the quality and not just quantity. The current system is more flexible and adjustable than a KD system, and it is smarter in that it can account for more than just the number of kills vs the number of deaths, it can account for the other side's skill level as well if implemented right. Like I said, people find some issues with a system and immediately think they should torch the whole thing down and find something else, when adjustments can be more than enough.

[echo forum]

the system is so volatile as to be worthless. I have 1.9 K/D and constantly go from 4-6 star throughout the door depending on my loadout. I play solo only in trios. I die a lot to worse players simply because I've run out of healing after wiping 5 people or because audio drops and they run up on me. I die to better players than me too a lot but you know when you get fanning'd or dual spammed it's kinda meh

[little carbon]

I think you misunderstand my point. I very much play the game for the pvp, and ill make my best try to prevent any bounty from running and am successful at that.
But pvp can be important without being the objective. Take CSGO for example. Very much a pvp heavy game. But getting kills isnt the goal of that game. CT side isnt going to chase kills but protect their sites and T site is gonna play around planting the bomb. And once its planted they are going to protect it from being defused instead of running around trying to kill people. But all of those objectives are accomplished with pvp as a tool.
Thats also why the kill rewards are much lower than the reward for doing the objective, and why you can still loose rounds even though you killed everyone.
And its the same in Hunt. If you play the objective right, you will get a lot of pvp action, at least if all teams are competent. Thats why i leave when i pick a bounty and scan no one. I just requeue and hope for more competent opponents.
Just like CSGO Hunt requires more than just aiming and shooting to win, its a thinking game to some degree, relying on strategy, such as picking the correct engagements. Even within engagements strategy plays a huge part and will lead to coordinated teams winning engaments drastically more often against opponents who play casually or leisurely.
And in high ELO the bounty very rarely gets out without the server being dead, because all teams do theiry job in trying to secure it

[runic crypt]

Cool! So ask them to fix it or try to think of ways to fix it, instead of people suggesting systems that have been implemented in other games and were worse than the current one. I agree the system is volatile, but adjusting the current system can curb this issue so that ranks changing takes a bit more time, I don't see the need to completely remove the current system and experiment with other systems that we know are doomed to fail just as badly or worse as we have seen in other games.

[little carbon]

The ELO system in Hunt is a little bit too volatile and doesnt factor in luck enough. Reducing the base amount of ELO change on a kill/death on equal skill and reducing the maximum impact of skill difference on the ELO change would reduce that volatility by a lot. But the systems theory is still much superior to KD, because in the end ELO is KD, just weighted by the skill of the kill

[crystal plume]

SBMM in games that don't have some ranked competitive mode is a horrible trend in the modern gaming industry either way imo

[runic crypt]

In a KD based system like the one people sometimes suggest here, I would be 6* for months if not over a year even if I end up leaving the game for some time or for any reason my skill drops to that of a 4* since my KD is high and I have a large number of kills and deaths that I would need something like 6-8 deaths in a row without any kills just to move my KD by 0.01, just as well I know someone with a KD below 1.00 and they had gotten good enough to compete and hold their place in 6* but since they played quite a lot solo or with randoms, it took them quite a long time to learn the game, so they will likely be misplaced in 2-3* lobbies for, again, months or over a year till they bump their KD up to their actual skill level. It is a very problematic system.

[little carbon]

Mathematically speaking the ELO change curve needs to be shifted downwards and compressed to reduce volatility

[echo forum]

I have never experienced a system worst than hunts lol

I can go lose 3 games of quickplay to de rank on purpose

[echo forum]

idk how long do you think new players are going to play if they're commonly getting stomped by 6 star mosin gods?

[runic crypt]

Cool statement, doesn't have a point though and doesn't counter my statement neither. The current system is still better than any other suggested alternative, it needs adjustments not a total rework.

[echo forum]

What games do you think Hunt's MMR system is better than?

[crystal plume]

As much as they used to back in the day in other games when there were no SBMM in pretty much anywhere

[echo forum]

bakc in the day every game had community servers on pc

[runic crypt]

I didn't say its better than any game, I said its better than the suggested alternatives. But to turn your own question on you, what game has a better ranking system that relies on KD?

[echo forum]

people could not play with sweats if they didnt want to

[little carbon]

Thats not an issue with ELO, but with having quickplay coupled with Bounty Hunts ELO. Dont blame something on the system that isnt the systems fault, but the implementation.
I dont get that. "The current system is faulty because of some issues in implementation, so lets go back to the old system that was worse instead of fixing the implementation issues"

[echo forum]

I could do the same thing in bh? The system is so volatile you can purposely de rank in under 5 games

[little carbon]

Again, as i said, volatility should be lowered

[crystal plume]

Yeah that wasn't the case for nearly every game 😄 A lot of us started on console when we were younger, I started off with cods and they didn't have server browsers on console at least in the ones I played

[runic crypt]

SO ADJUST. fuck me dude 😛

[crystal plume]

Only one I remember having that was battlefield

[little carbon]

But thats not a point for ELO being bad, just for it not being tuned correctly yet

[crystal plume]

And even there I just played quickplay or whatever it was called as a kid where it just chooses a server for me automatically

[runic crypt]

You're sounding like the kind of guy that if the A/C or heater is off by a degree, you think the whole unit is broken and you replace it 😛

[echo forum]

I don't think you get my point...I could just go stomp 3 star lobbies even if I was a 6 star playing by purposely and easily deranking

[little carbon]

But you can do that with any system

[runic crypt]

Yes. Because. The. System. Needs. Adjustments.

[little carbon]

KDA based matchmaking would still allow you to derank.

[echo forum]

I mean console fps gaming back then was new...you didn't have people with 50,000 hours on fps games. Halo 3 had skilled mmr system. Gears has an mmr system. Almost all pc games had community servers.

[runic crypt]

Adjust. Synonym: Tune. Fine-tune. Calibrate. Balance. Adapt. Rearrange.

[little carbon]

Go to CS as a team and throw match after match

deranked. Much slower, but again, volatility needs adjustment

[echo forum]

When you say ADJUST. It's easy to assume you mean the player because you weren't being specific.

[runic crypt]

I literally have been saying adjusting the system xD

[crystal plume]

Community servers are a breeding ground for people doing everything they can to exploit the progression in the game

[echo forum]

One..you would get banned for match throwing. Two...it would take ages to go from a legit high rank to a low rank. You can do it in Hunt in less than a day.

[crystal plume]

I'm down for private custom matches

But not public ones

[runic crypt]

@echo forum I mean...

[echo forum]

So get rid of progression on them.

[crystal plume]

Do you think that most people would change to those for "more balanced" experience? That is not a solution to any problem, it would be an option for people to have fun in every now and then but it would do nothing to support the live service model of the game or people who, idk, want to progress?

[echo forum]

They probably would which would mean the official servers aren't as fun to most people.

Look at Rust. Official servers are shit.

[crystal plume]

That is extremely different to something like Hunt

The gameplay loop and everything is basically the polar opposite

[queen jungle]

Why do people always have to claim that the majority shares their views?

And if you were looking for pure PvP, well, plenty of games offer that experience. Hunt's PvE component and the sandbox elements towards achieving the goal of extracting the bounty are what makes it stand out.

[echo forum]

not really, I think if you hamstring your game purely to try to force people into fomo to grind for the live service model you're morally bankrupt

it's funny how modern games have LESS options than older ones

they've traded actual gameplay options for dress up your virtual doll options

[little carbon]

Well, as long as you dont just stand there afk you'll be fine. You could literally just take pistols every round and only rush without checking corners.
You cannot get banned for playing stupid

[queen jungle]

@barren narwhal #feedback is being actively monitored at all times

[barren narwhal]

good to know, thanks 😄

[echo forum]

You will get flagged by overwatch system. Quite easy to see someonr throwing if its a trend

[runic crypt]

Yeah but playing stupid is not a bannable offense by Valve's own rules for CSGO. There are no rules that specifically mention throwing a match, rather it is deliberately trying to grief such as attacking teammates or hindering them needlessly and intentionally with utilities or giving away their position. I can however just plug in a steering wheel and use that to play and I will never be banned for it.

[echo forum]

throwing literally counts as griefing.

its in the report options..throwing/griefing

Would be quite easy to see someone throwing if they've made it past GN lol

[runic crypt]

Does it specifically mention throwing in the report? Also, if playing really badly counts as griefing then what if a rusty player plays in a higher rank than he should be? Does that count as a bannable offense?

[echo forum]

it's griefing but it's been clarified before that throwing counts as griefing. Most team based games will have it labeled as throwing/griefing. You can play badly as a high rank. It's if it becomes a trend you will be dealt with

also the game has a trust factor system and you will be put into worse lobbies if people are constantly reporting you

[little carbon]

Again, just hardpush a site each round, play with music on the side and double your mouse sensitivity. Youll be throwing without trying just by being bad. That is not a banable offense. And again, to be more efficient, just get a full team to throw together. You will not even be reported, so trust factor isnt an issue

[echo forum]

the enemy team can still report you for obvious throwing lol. Trust factor is always an issue. Low trust factor = good luck playing with spin bots and desyncers every game. Game still has overwtch and it will be quite obvious you're trolling when people review it.

fyi it is common CS GO forum post about people complaining when trust factor system started that they can't derank anymore because it killed their trust facotor

[runic crypt]

Where has it been clarified? I've been playing CSGO since 2012 and I have never seen a developer statement stating that someone playing bad can be constituted as griefing.

[crystal plume]

I would never trust the average Hunt player reviewing player reports

[little carbon]

Agreed

90% of people complaining about cheats on this discord end up showing a clip of a perfectly valid shot

[runic crypt]

In fact, if playing intentionally bad would be considered a bannable offense under their griefing rule, 3kliksphillip would have been banned a long time ago for making a youtube series about intentionally deranking in CSGO literally called "Going Low in CS:GO"

[echo forum]

Why not? If a player is constantly getting reported even with SBMM they're probably suspect. Also overwatch system uses experienced players that have invested time into the game. "To unlock access to Overwatch, you'll need to be an active member of CS:GO's community. That's less in the sense of chiming up in the Steam forums, and more to do with playing the game. ”Investigators” are chosen based on competitive wins, account age, hours played, Skill group, low report count and more". TBH most Overwatchers are probably more qualified than you average reddit admin.

[echo forum]

he did that series before valve cracked down on griefing. Also youtubers/streamers almost always get pet treatment from devs

[runic crypt]

You are literally re-writing history, nothing has changed since then.

[little carbon]

What will get you banned is if you do things on purpose that hinder your teammates from trying to win to their best ability. But if you only play stupid yourself, you are fine

[crystal plume]

Eh, seen "experienced" players be non ideal candidates for reviewing player reports as well

[little carbon]

Wins, hours played and skill group all have nothing to do with ones ability to detect cheats

[runic crypt]

The trust factor system did not "crack down" on cheating or griefing, they just use it to more reliably find offenders and find other possible solutions other than banning to keep problematic players out of the average player pool.

[crystal plume]

If anything there's quite a bit of "good" players who have the mentality of "I'm so good that any time I die I will pull a card from the cope pile to explain why I died"

[echo forum]

What are you talking about? They implented harsh griefing penalties late 2018. You can get perma banned now from enough of it.

[little carbon]

There is a reason that overwatch cannot ban people

But only flag them

[runic crypt]

They didn't change the definition of griefing or add the fact that playing bad is a part of it.

[echo forum]

high skill level = better judge of what is possible legitimately in the game.

[little carbon]

Its a first pass system to filter out obvious false report

[crystal plume]

Also "low report count" as a factor for being a good candidate doesn't make sense, the reason why I wouldn't trust the average hunt player as a good candidate for such system is because of the amount of false reports that happen, so if you perform well, which is a factor, you also get falsely reported a lot, which apparently is also a factor?

[echo forum]

Overwatch cases are generated based on a number of factors, and once a case is created it is issued to multiple Overwatch Investigators who vote on convictions for griefing, cheating, both offenses, or none. If Overwatch Investigators unanimously agree on a conviction a Minor or Major ban will be issued to the Suspect. you're simply wrong

[crystal plume]

If anything I'd view someone legit who gets reported a lot as the better candidate if I were to go with such a system since he probably knows better than anyone what actual cheating looks like and when the player is just doing well

[echo forum]

tbh if this game didn't have so much network jank there would be a lot less false reports. The game has no way to review your game.

[crystal plume]

People reporting every other wallbang has nothing to do with networking

It's just the nature of the game

[runic crypt]

Oh is that why some pro players have absolutely bad opinions that are not backed up by any facts? Like how some pro players are so convinced that certain other pro players are cheating even though they have done every single possible check to prove they aren't?

[echo forum]

because you can't review the game like you can with other games. No kill cam. No review mod.

[echo forum]

What are you even talking about?

[little carbon]

you mean the flusha thing. Yeah, thats a good example?

[runic crypt]

Really? Flusha cheating allegations? Other pro players literally claimed he was cheating without any evidence other than he just beat them hard and won majors?

[runic crypt]

I mean lol ye it was a big deal I guess everyone knows it 😛

S1mple as well

Plenty of examples

[echo forum]

lol there are so many 0ms aimlocks with that guy that he probably was cheating. You can still cheat at lan lmao. People used to do it through the c loud when linking steam account and through mouse firmware. There is a reason he " retired" so fast

[runic crypt]

Oh come on.....

Dude I have nothing to say to you if you really think he might have cheated....

[echo forum]

do you also believe pro athletes don[t cheaT?

[little carbon]

He played on hardware that wasnt his own at tournaments because he wanted to get rid of the allegations. Id think its more likely he retired because he couldnt take the hate anymore than that he cheated

[runic crypt]

I believe Flusha proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he didn't cheat because of the extensive checks he went through and his performance hasn't changed. DON'T put words in my mouth and make a straw-man argument to belittle my points. I didn't say athletes never cheat. I said Flusha didn't based on the investigations and no one has put forth any evidence of him cheating whatsoever.

[echo forum]

every lan you could bring your own peripherals and use your steam cloud lol

[little carbon]

Yes, you can, but he went above what was required by regulation so people would stop accusing him

[echo forum]

If almsot every pro athlete cheats it would be insane to assume the same thing isn't occurring to some degree with "e-athletes". They're competing for hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars.

[runic crypt]

Not in all events today, especially the big ones the venue provides the exact same peripherals you request, and even then he has played many times with the venue's provided peripherals and even had his PC swapped. He was a victim of such a big witch hunt people took extreme measures.

[little carbon]

Its a classic case of users thinking they have the knowledge of a skilled developer and making judgement based on that.

[echo forum]

bro it's insane that you think the devs are the geniuses on skill level and cheating when most of them are terrible at their own games. It's like assuming the guy that made Chess has the best understand of Chess and is the best player.

also what lan did they not take their own peripherals? I have never seen that

[runic crypt]

Right... You can believe that those two things are exactly the same and the measures to detect cheats are exactly the same if you want. Fact is, with athletes, people have PROOF that what they achieve is either not humanly possible, or they literally have evidence of cheating before assuming or baselessly accusing. Why should it be different in e-sports? What Flusha accomplished is totally possible and in fact it isn't all that crazy by today's standards, but without any evidence or proof that it is not humanly possible people accused him anyway.

[echo forum]

I mean that's where most of the cheating accusations come from...we know it's not humanly possible to have a sub 100ms aimlock lmao.

[runic crypt]

High skill does not equal better judgement, sometimes skilled players can be bitter and resentful for losing that they blame external factors or make up excuses or allegations.

[runic crypt]

Did he every demonstrate that he is capable of doing that himself consistently? What if his reaction seems faster than it actually is because he heard a step or made a guess or even misclicked? There are 2-3 clips of him literally misclicking and people saying he was aimbotting, WITH camera footage of him flicking and hitting his keyboard and accidentally shooting.

[little carbon]

A) I said skilled developer. Which arent a lot these days, because development courses are a joke. Thats why a lot of really good devs come with a degree in other topics like mathematics.
B) They know the technical limitations. And you dont need to be good at something to be able to gauge what is possible and what not. Hell, with a lot of things, the best teachers are people who know a lot about something, but arent necessarily good at it themselves

[queen jungle]

That really depends on the position of the dev tbh. Especially play testers (not QA testers) are often among the best players in a game because they put in so many hours. I know somebody like that who now works at Crytek and absolutely spanked anybody without any effort whatsoever in the past.

[echo forum]

You can literally count the time when someone pops into the frame and how fast they're shot.

[runic crypt]

Buddy seems you looked into the issue with a biased viewpoint of him being a cheater than actually looked at all the evidence.

[little carbon]

And of course often times you will find really good players among developers

[runic crypt]

Did you read what I said about hearing a step, guessing, other factors being involved such as maybe a call, or even that fact that he wasn't consistent about those speeds?

[crystal plume]

I've played with more than couple Hunt devs and I have been also carried by more than couple Hunt devs 😄

[echo forum]

come on lmao. The guy is notorious for being called out among most of the best players. Even if you know someone is holding an angle you simply cannot REACT at 100ms. It's humanly impossible.

[little carbon]

You know that reaction time is a gaussian distribution right?

[runic crypt]

Can you show me 100 matches of him where he is on average even close to that reaction time?

[little carbon]

among people and among situations for one person

[runic crypt]

You'll show me a couple of clips at most from his entire career, not an average reaction speed close to that...

[echo forum]

the fastest average visual reaction times recorded are 135ms. There has never been a faster measurement than this. You're going to have higher than this on a computer with it's system latency and monitor latency. The fact that you can argue 100ms reaction time is possible for humans just shows how uneducated you are about the subject

[little carbon]

The point is, there has been no technical, concrete proof of cheating. Only people who believe that that level of skill is impossible.

[little carbon]

You are comparing to pure reaction. CS isnt that. There is a level of prediction

[runic crypt]

If someone calls "guy pushing short" it might take me 500 ms to process that, figure where he might come from, and perhaps realize how long I took so I decide to prefire based on the opponent's distance and their movement speed. By the time the enemy peeks at the last 100ms I already committed it to my brain to flick and shoot at an angle 400ms prior. Just saying things like that can happen even if unlikely but in pro matches where a lot is on the line they might take risks like this if they felt like it may be their only chance to win.

[echo forum]

lmao come on bro when you predict you're doing a prefire on an obvious spot and most of the time it doesn't result in anything. It also doesn't mean you're going to perfectly aim snap the second the guy moves.

[runic crypt]

Just because it looks like he reacted in 100ms doesn't mean it's definitive proof he was cheating.

[echo forum]

that is the most copium logic I've heard in a while. It doesn't even make sense. IM TALKING THE VISUAL PROCESS TIME TO THEN REACT TO A VISUAL STIMULUS.

[runic crypt]

You got proof that he consistently reacts at that speed?

[little carbon]

IE, you hear a step before someone peeks, and you predict the peek. You have reacted to the step and not the peek, so its within human limits, even if it looks like the reaction to a visual indicator was below that

[runic crypt]

Show me

[echo forum]

it's simply not possible at all lmao

[runic crypt]

You literally provide no evidence, while investigations provided plenty of evidence and I am giving out a possible scenario that may have caused people to think he was cheating.

[little carbon]

The point of origin isnt necessarily the visual stimulus

[runic crypt]

Okay. Provide evidence that he did then.

[echo forum]

buddy there is like 10000000 flusha cheating videos on youtube. Go look yourself. There is a reason he is the most highly suspected high profile player accused of cheating. I don't think any other pro has his smoke frag ability when most the tourneys were online

[little carbon]

Its like in Hunt, if i hear a step outside going up to a door. I am just going to count and shoot my shotgun based on when i think he will peek instead of trying to react to a peek. Thats how a prefire works. Thats generally what prefiring is about, getting around reaction time.

[runic crypt]

I did look for myself and none of them showed irrefutable evidence such as consistent 100ms from Flusha

That's why I'm asking for proof where did you get that 100ms info from?

[echo forum]

No it is...because even if you know someone is going to come around the corner you cannot react until they are visually seen. Yes you can get a prefire but it's not usually a crisp clean lock is it?

[runic crypt]

All the videos I saw (which were PLENTY of them) were easily explainable and have been explained.

[echo forum]

count the frames for yourself from the time he peeks an angle or someone peeks him

[runic crypt]

Really? That's your proof? You throw your own burden of proof on me? You want ME to proof YOUR argument? No thanks...

People have counted frames and Flusha isn't even close to 100ms. If you think are better and have proof, then provide it yourself. Otherwise, I'll stick to the experts.

[echo forum]

buddy why would I waste my time editing a video for you just so you can say " oh well the devs know better hehe I think there is another reason, why would he cheat? "

[runic crypt]

You LITERALLY made that claim dude without evidence, if you won't proof your OWN claim, why would I spend the effort myself proving your own claim? wtf kind of logic is that?

You can't accuse someone of committing a crime then ask the court to provide the evidence for your own accusations 😛

It's not how society works xD

[little carbon]

And that is why not all of his shots are "cheated"

[runic crypt]

Besides if anyone is disregarding actually existing evidence here it's you with the whole "oh well but literally screw every authority that investigated this" shtick and sticking to the 100ms story 😛

[little carbon]

But if you are proficient enough youd be surprised at how much you can predict people

[runic crypt]

All this to say, skill does not make people good judges.

[echo forum]

bro who is dumb enough to cheat like that? People have been using humanized cheats since 2015 and they occasionally bug out and that's what causes the "vac moments".

[echo forum]

that's a ridiculous statement. Judges are almost always high level form professionals in the field they're judging.

[runic crypt]

Not every great lawyer can be a judge for a reason...

Also every good judge has to be proficient at the field they are judging, but not everyone proficient in that field can be a judge.

[echo forum]

To be considered a candidate for a judicial appointment, an individual must be a lawyer who has practised law for at least 10 years, is proficient in the law, and has the personal qualities, professional skills, abilities, and life experiences that are appropriate to undertake the role of a judge. You quite literally need to be an accomplished lawyer to become a judge. Come on bro. THINK.

[runic crypt]

Basic logic here really, I'm not making ground-breaking statements and literally every society that exists today works this way...

[runic crypt]

Yeah but not every proficient lawyer can just apply to become a judge and get instantly accepted, and of those judges that are accepted only based on just checkmarks of time spent and experience not all of them make good judges, its why there are bad judges. Come on bro. THINK.

[echo forum]

Your worst judge is still a better judge than basically everyone else that didn't meet the prerequisites . This is like when people call a pro athlete trash because he's a 4/10 in the NHL but in the AHL he's a 20/10. He's a pro for a reason. There is a reason there is a requirement to become a judge that required proficiency in lawyering. Anyone proficient in lawyering AND the qualities of lawyering are by design set up to become a judge.

[runic crypt]

He is still the worst judge tho and the judicial system would be better off without them........

Like bro

You get what I'm saying here?

We don't want bad judges if we can avoid

We can avoid by checking more than if they have years of experience and expertise

[little carbon]

And thats why you dont want to give power to the community and leave the judging to the good judges. Why add in mediocre judges if we can keep the quality high

[runic crypt]

In my country, they have quite an extensive examination process before someone can become a judge AFTER they meet the experience and expertise pre-requisites

You know what, Jakey, you are just correct and have the best, most correct ideas and opinions about things. I agree your methods and logic are better than mine. Let's move on 😛

[little carbon]

Not just your country. Some countries just have way to simple entry barriers.

[echo forum]

If the judical system didnt have bad judges..who are still better than 99% of other people there would be a shortage of judges. It's easy to be considered bad when you compare the 1% to the 0.1%

[runic crypt]

Aha I absolutely have no reply to that argument, it's absolutely correct and I lose.

[little carbon]

But there doesnt be a shortage on gameplay "judges" or else they would hire more professionals

[echo forum]

Is this an argument against democracy and the jury system?

[runic crypt]

I'll just say quality can be a standard and not a comparative process. But what do I know, I'm just stupid.

[little carbon]

Instead of just letting people in the community decide who often will make an assumption about cheating based on whether they think they could have done a similar play.

[echo forum]

The standard is based on human abilty and bell curves tho

[little carbon]

No, i am very much for democracy. Thats why its important to have professionals do the jobs in a democracy. Coming from Germany, we learned the hard way what happenes if you let random lunatics run your country

[runic crypt]

You know how the education system uses certain breakpoints for grades? Let's say that judges need to be 90% "good" with their judgements, I won't explain what good means coz really I don't de-rail the subject. Then the top 1% can be the top with their 99.8% resolution rate, but the judges at 90% aren't considered bad, but adequate.

If someone does their job adequately, they are not bad, they are just not the top 1%

[echo forum]

So you think the top 1% are experts to judge?

[runic crypt]

What? Explain to me how you understood that point from what I wrote?

I am saying, if you are adequate at a job, like you have the average acceptable failure rate, that does not mean you are "BAD" therefore you can have a standard of quality that filters out bad people out of a position.

[echo forum]

You just proved my point that top level players make the best judges on their game of choice lmao

[runic crypt]

Quality can be a standard not a comparative process. That is my point.

[runic crypt]

No man I didn't say that you are literally misunderstanding my point to make it seem like it agrees with your point...

Jesus christ Jakey if you want me to say you are smarter than me and I lose to you then just message me on private and I'll say it 😛 Don't twist my own words 😛

[outer wedge]

#game-ideas message
I would love the new map was all about open compounds instead of shotgun corner holding lairs..

[echo forum]

Thats copium. You just said in your point 90% = adequate by 99% = judge material. This means the elite group is judge material. Just like an elite player is a better judge of legit or not than someone like Dennis.

[runic crypt]

No I said there can be a quality standard of 90% SUCCESS RATE

Not that you need to be top 90%

fuck sake

[little carbon]

I really dont see how you could possible infer that point from @runic crypts statement. Considering that the point is that the top level players might be meeting the basic requirements to judge, but dont necessarily habe the proficiency to be good at it. Especially considering that these people have no training towards recognising personal bias

[echo forum]

Resolution rate = succeas rate

[indigo hound]

I worry because that shouldn't happen 😭

[little carbon]

This has what to do with my message. And what do you consider a resolution. Any resolution, or a case resolved right?

Because then we are at exactly the point that the high skilled players are less likely to resolve a case right than trained professionals because they are less proficient

[echo forum]

The point still stands that you can't be a judge without a 90% good resolution rate...just like someone with a 2% extraction rate and 0.5k/d isn't going to be a betted judge than a 50% exteaction rate 2.5k/d player.

[echo forum]

He has 90%+ good resolution rate = judge material. Direct comparison to exteaction rate in Hunt.

[runic crypt]

Wait, are you comparing success rate to all the people in the world? You know there can be experts in a field with a low success rate compared to their peers right? Like you could have a judge that, over time and after laws change, their success rate in correctly resolving matters falls below 90%, and THAT quality standard defines them as bad, not the fact that they are at the bottom of the curve compared to their peers.

That's my argument.

You can be the bottom of a curve amongst your peers in a field but not be considered bad because you a quality standard, such as a 90% success rate AMONGST your peers.

[echo forum]

Im using the % you gave in your hypothetical. What matters is the bell curve. Bad, average, above average.

[runic crypt]

Which was to counter your point of people are good judges BECAUSE they are experts. Which, by the way, there are fields where some experts literally have worst success rates than the average person.

[echo forum]

What fields?

[runic crypt]

So again skill doesn't automatically mean they are good judges

[runic crypt]

Investment

[echo forum]

You don't have skill without understand ans intuition lol

[echo forum]

Lmao bruhhhh come on

[runic crypt]

Come on what? Also, I said automatically, you might NEED to be an expert to be a good judge on it, but being an expert does not AUTOMATICALLY mean you will be a good judge.

Like literally if all the points I made doesn't make you at least see my point and if you are just going to keep trying to twist shit to make your point valid then just accept in your own logic that you are better and I'm heading off 😛

[echo forum]

Its insame that you think someone can understand the intricate details of a system or concept better than 99% of people but be unsuitable to judge the possibilities of the system or concept.

[runic crypt]

And that is your opinion and you have every right to hold that. I hold the opinion that it is insane that you think someone understanding the intricate details of a system or concept better than 99% of people automatically confirms they will be suitable judges always.

I think we can agree to disagree here and move on.

[echo forum]

We can move on but surely you must understand how ridiculous it is to assume juding....which requires detailed understanding of the concept being judged...is beyons the ability of an expert of the concept. You cannot have consistent success within the sphere of that concept without deep understanding.

[runic crypt]

Yeah but I think you assume everyone with the expertise and knowledge will apply it fairly and adequately all the time. People aren't so clear-cut every time, they need those things for sure to become good judges of these spheres but having that knowledge doesn't stop them from being flawed personally. Again, some people that are experts accuse others of wrongdoings out of spite sometimes.

I don't man, I could really be stupid. I wish you a good day/night ^.^

[little carbon]

The issue is that you are trying to derive a bidirectional correlation from something that is correlatated one-way.
Everyone able to judge is an expert.
That doesn't make the reverse statement true.
Especially considering you are talking about experts in the execution of something not about experts about the thing itself.
It's like asking a baker to lead quality control for the company that creates ovens just because they are an expert at using it.

[maiden pelican]

I accidentally edited my first post instead of posting a new one, my question was why would you NOT want a person who is solo, searching for a match alone, not be able to change their loadout as the game searches for matches. It isn't like gear effects what matches you get

[brisk timber]

How belongs all this shit in #feedback-discussion ?

[queen jungle]

People sometimes get carried away a little

[frosty garnet]

@green portal, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

keep the self res for solo that's kinda epic cloking 16k games ez and keeping MMR 3```

[little carbon]

If i recall the first post said something along the lines of "while loading in", which made it sound like you wanted them to be able to switch in the "waiting for players" phase which would obviously be bad.
Now its quite clear what you mean. There is a small issue that this could cause people to accidentally load into matches with missing gear because the game found a match while you were switching. So it being how its currently could be a way to protect the user from themselves

[maiden pelican]

Yeah, that's what I thought people interpreted it as (as I call the waiting for players loading in too) and yeah the switching to a different set of dualies could certainly cause issues I think.

But my thought is that you can search the book of weapons while loading and I saw something I wanted to use instead

But didn't want to stop searching and search again cause I was doing other stuff.

Then my internet shit itself so it wasn't much of a matter of import anymore

[little carbon]

Yeah, makes sense. And there are ways how it could be implemented safely.

[maiden pelican]

Honestly the main issue would be the uneqipping of contraband amd how that's kinda funky

[deft valve]

le mark pistol is so clunky wtf

pressed x after pulling it

nothing happend

bruh

needed to press it again

this game has serious issues with chains of command

when i press 4 and mouseclick to use medpack i sometimes shoot

wtf is that

[unborn sandal]

There’s no input buffering in this game so you have to wait for the animation to finish before you begin interacting with the item

Also there’s animation cancelling so if you try to input buffer with mouse 1 you’ll just cancel the swap animation and use your last held item

[echo forum]

Idk about that. If you ads quickly shoot and then un ads and lool away your gun will sometimes delayed shoot. It feels like an input buffer from too many fast inputs

[burnt mulch]

@steel dawn btw you can change what slot something's in ingame

[steel dawn]

Yeah but I don’t wanna

[frosty garnet]

@still dirge, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

nerf ammo/spare ammo on avto.  Sparks pistol makes it out of control.```

[junior mist]

I stopped playing for a while and just came back. I use AutoHotkey for my job, and now I can't play Hunt? I don't have it running, but getting kicked every match and losing my built because of AHK. This is ridiculous, is there any option other than a total uninstall?

[brisk timber]

@echo forum why remove lightfoot?

this skill is a godsend D:

or are you one of this guys hiding in compounds scared of people come inside?

[dense schooner]

yall wilding

Light foot is goated

esp as an aggressive shotgun player, it’s a must-have

[echo forum]

no I move around but it's quite kife to get shot in the hide because someone light foot to an off angle to peek you. Either the sound is reliable or it isn't....you can still cover like 30m in less than 5 sec

[echo forum]

you don't think it's cheese to completely silent hop 15m to 1 tap someone with slugs because they didn't hear shit?

[dense schooner]

nope, if i’m staying inside a building, i’ll make sure to trap the most obvious ladder entrances or watch them

[little jackal]

The point is probably not about ladders, but grasshoping without a sound. I think it requires some skill tho, and if you can successfully pull that maneuver, you deserve the advantage

[dense schooner]

you can’t silent hop indefinitely though, the jumping sound will be louder every now and then

it’s especially difficult to hear during fire maps but other than that it shouldn’t really be an issue

[ripe basalt]

Please utilize support to report players.

!report

[marsh garden]

If you would like to report a player, you can do so on the Team Details tab on your Match Summary screen. It is also accessible in the Last Match tab at any time. If you have additional proof you would like to provide, you can find out how to reach out to official support here: #customer-support

[ripe basalt]

You asked how to report, I provided it.

Denim chickens in hunt when?

[marsh garden]

If you would like to report a player, you can do so on the Team Details tab on your Match Summary screen. It is also accessible in the Last Match tab at any time. If you have additional proof you would like to provide, you can find out how to reach out to official support here: #customer-support

[ripe basalt]

If you can't be respectful and read the rules or the report instructions that was provided to you, then I suggest you move elsewhere. We do not handle hacking reports here. That is only processed by Crytek Support Staff.

I gave you the customer support. Which is a channel.

[brisk timber]

dude, its not his job, hes a discord mod not a crytek support

[ripe basalt]

If you would take a second to read, you will see that I gave you the proper tools to do your report.

This is the #customer-support Page that I linked.

Here, we have built a channel with a handy gif showing you how to do the report.

Outside of making an account for you to do the report for you, that's all I can offer.

[echo forum]

Im not talking about ladders lol... im talking about the crouch hop shit

[echo forum]

no you can silent hop as long as you jump > crouch..wait 0.5s > jump

it's quite easy to do it to peek a corner with 0 audio

[echo forum]

its not hard at all. Let's not act like it's rocket jumping or rocket league flip reset or a fighting game combo. It's super easy

[little jackal]

do it yourself then

[echo forum]

I do lol...it becomes tedious

I quit warzone for the same reason that slid canceling became a gimmicky required movement if you wanted to succeed. It's just janky

[little jackal]

well from your description it looks like you did hold an angle while the other guy played proactively. Combined with the mention of slugs, my verdict is skill issue

[echo forum]

bruh we have a crouch that is slow, linear and can be heard from 20m away if you don't try and use some kind of environmental sound to mask it....then we have light foot hopping that is virtually silent and faster than crouching lmao. Let's just add dead silence as a consumable to the game!

[brisk timber]

Ok this is indeed shitty and i guess not the intended behavior of what the devs had in mind for lightfood perk.
Sounds to me more like an exploit that needs to get patched out.

Getting up latters silently and the other stuff is still valid and nice to have tho. So i wouldnt cancel the whole trait

[dense schooner]

So i tested it right now and my hunter still makes a sound. Is the sound only client-sided or?

Because I read once they nerfed Lightfoot

[little carbon]

It is intended. They specifically adjusted the time you need to wait in netween each hop. The thing is tho that lightfoot is the slowest way to travel. You literally have to stand completely still in between each hop. If you crouchwalk during the downtime you will be heard. If you are on gunslinger you have to lower your gun as well or the hops will make the going into hipfire sound.

[willow burrow]

u forgot to mention that u dont need to crouch to do this at all, crouching only limits the noise made in case u input forward before jumping

[raw olive]

Is this inferno 100% over the weekend?

[echo forum]

Its wayyyyyy faster than crouch walking.

[echo forum]

The crouch adds unpredictabilty incase you're seen and I think it resets the lightfootcooldown faster if ypu jump from crouch

[echo forum]

Doesnt work in training mode

[fluid locust]

mans needs to plug his headset in or somethin lol. they fixed the lightfoot thing a while ago and you def can't do it as easily as people say. if you wanna stand in the open hopping just to be quiet then you're probably gonna get shot by anyone with a brain.

[echo forum]

The only thing they changed was the cooldown lol

[echo forum]

Also you guys says shit like this but theres a reason every goos player and high skill streamer is light hopping around, especially before peeking a corner. That 0 audio before a peek is massive. If I can hear someone walking I can easily line up a headshot..if they just magically peek that corner I don't.

[frosty garnet]

@queen jungle, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

automatic pistol.```

[deft valve]

@quasi halo keep the hunter in your bench, wait for dark tribute +2, be happy

very easy

you keep piling up lvl 50 hunters like that

[little jackal]

I feel like death cheat has spoiled people so much we're gonna suffer the consequences for a long time.

isn't it sad for a developer to make a hardcore game only to find out that a big portion of players just wants to hack around this hardcore as much as possible

[flat sandal]

Really it is not more or less hardcore. It is only about traits and balancing has to revolve around that. That is it is only about how many traits people have on average, not more not less.

I do think it isn't good that everyone has doctor and physician. Maybe op traits like this should depend on something like pledge marks in their strength so fast healing is not just a default.

[hot vigil]

I can second this, getting reaaaal tired of chain pistol fanning too.

[flat sandal]

I dislike getting wrecked by shotguns more 😄

Fanning is a tricky one though

[worthy knoll]

Rule 1: except If you Not enter the Bayou with a totally free bitch, never play without Doctor.
Big shots are to expensive to Take Sparks/Mosin shots.

[flat sandal]

Maybe medkits should just heal more as a default idk. Just something. Its kinda boring if the first traits you have to get are basically mendatory

[deft valve]

you can run without it if you wanne

run 4x syringe

and get all sorts of traps n gadgets

not the first time ive died to concertina + poisen

[little carbon]

Although I agree that death cheat just has to go or get serious downsides (maybe reducing hunter health to 125. Considering it's mostly beloved by people who seem to be really afraid to loose hunters, having the downside be always being closer to death could be somewhat poetic. Or just have it burn away the last 5 trait slots every time it triggers, just needs to be serious enough), i don't think fanning, especially with the chain is that much of an issue. Unless someone is like right in front of you, you are usually better of aiming than fanning. There is a reason you barely see chain fanning in higher ELO

[iron trench]

@trail oasis i got your point of making Nitros and Avtos more expensive, but it doesn't fix the problem... that way only rich people will buy it (the sweat-lords that everybody hates would still use it). I think they should remove this gun out of this game entirely... but i'm pretty sure they would not, so i have some ideas to fix that... (and sorry for typing so much)...

My idea to fix that is:
1 - Put a slower ADS timing in them, huge guns should have a slower pace... think with me.. IRL this guns should be heavy and you won't be supposed to use them close-quarters at all (they're long and huge ass guns, you'll be hitting them into walls trying to turn corners).

2 - For the AVTO in specific, it also should have lower damage... it doesn't make any sense a full-auto gun having the same power of a sniper rifle... (it actually doesn't make any sense a full-auto rifle in 1885 in first place);
So put at least 124 damage instead of the 136 they have, and lower the muzzle velocity a little bit... think with me:

The AK-47 is an assault rifle, right? And because of that they lose power compared to snipers, so they have 700 m/s muzzle velocity using 7.62x39 mm bullets.

The SVD Dragunov is the "AK-47" type sniper, and by being a sniper rifle, they also hold more muzzle power/muzzle pressure , and also use a different type of 762, the 7.62x54 mm and because of that they have 830 m/s muzzle velocity (130 more than an AK-47).

Think as the AK-47 as the Avtomat (i call it the Mosin-47, or the Avto-47) and the regular Mosin as an "SVD"... that's my point..
The Avto should mandatorily have slower damage and muzzle velocity than a regular Mosin just by logic.

[echo forum]

tbh the problem with the perk system in general is that it provides too many flat upgrades instead of game changing perks. They become must haves. I feel like a lot of the games balance issues stem from balancing around flat stats instead of weapon handling, velocity, ADS time etc.

[fluid locust]

I mean it feels like this whole event is them testing the waters of adding more casual features into the game. Solo self rez, a way to not lose a bar when dying, dying being a non issue. I mean if anything when they finally make respecing perks cost hunt dollars that's going to be a huge deal probably as well.

[little jackal]

well I hope the opposition has been vocal enough for them to reconsider these things

[fluid locust]

I definitely feel like they're toying with the idea of solo self rez and you not losing a bar in some way after this event now. Obviously death cheat is completely broken and if they had something similar after the event the game would be permanently ruined.

[echo forum]

it won't lol it's the trend of the game

[fluid locust]

Yea the game has definitely headed towards more casual features

[echo forum]

it has been since it basically left EA though. Reduced sway, necromancer, perks to help you heal faster and more often, trap stacking and perks to give you more, slugs, spitzer, HV, fanning, dual wield etc

[fluid locust]

Probably trying to attract bigger player base but I think at this point everyone who was interested in the game is playing it. There's probably a small minority that didn't like how punishing the game was and put it down in the past but I don't think that's most people.

Granted the event was pretty fun having little to no consequences but if the game was like that always that'd be pretty shit

[echo forum]

I think a lot of people also left though because it became much easier to get killed compared to before. Also the solo experience was way better before as well.

[crystal plume]

https://tenor.com/view/calculating-puzzled-math-confused-confused-look-gif-14677181

[signal mural]

@hot vigil The Krag will probably be the last unlock in the Springfield tree after the Event. This really will only punish the people who Prestige, as usual, but that probably will play a role in it's gameplay & "balance".

[tribal wyvern]

Never seen a weapon in a tree unlock a different ammo type.

As in from compact to medium

or medium to long

so i doubt that

Most likely a lvl unlock

[signal mural]

Ah true, true.

Wait nah... the Uppercut is a prime example. Caldwell Conversions are compact, the Uppercut is a weapon XP unlock into long ammo.

[crystal plume]

Centennial is a "winfield" and not part of the unlock tree

Same with terminus

And even the regular winfield itself is split into 2 weapon trees

[dense schooner]

Besides that, I think they should take it a step further and just treat them like actual power weapons in traditional arena shooters: they would only be world spawns, you’re unable to extract with them, and for this case, they wouldn’t always appear on the map

[worthy knoll]

I hope not 😛

[unborn dagger]

If they do add in a permanent death cheat in this game I'm just gonna quit out.

[fluid locust]

Pretty much

Rn it feels kinda bad winning over someone being ratty knowing they're still alive no matter what you do

You don't really win even if you win

[unborn dagger]

True

It's just stuff like death cheat really makes randoms get way more careless

[unborn sandal]

Death cheat has been a hate love scenario for me. Some people refuse to go to gunfire or even remotely endanger themselves until they get death cheat, but also once people have death cheat they become a lot more willing to make fun ridiculous plays instead of camping for half the game

[little jackal]

if only they could get some magic ability from looting a bounty, like a wallhack or something

[fluid locust]

I agree the more aggression is nice. There's still a lot of ratty snipers in my lobbies though. Probably lunar pact players though lol.

[flint cargo]

Just wanted to say that this last event (and the event before, the serpent one) take way too fucking long to make progress in. If you made it not such an unholy goddamn grind I actually may have been tempted to spend money on it. Instead I said "fuck it" and didn't buy anything, because why would I when it's still going to take me ten years to grind out the items

[unborn dagger]

My dude, I haven't even completed it(I stopped when I reached the zombie female hunter cause the rest of the rewards are ass) and it really isn't that long if you do the event challenges cause the amount you get from them is huge but I guess that's where the problem lies.

[tribal wyvern]

True, thats the only one i think.
Didn't think bout Uppercut in conversion tree

[radiant iris]

@iron trench tbh I dont ever die to nitro tho
like when I die to nitro I could also have died to slugs cause its this close, or well ok maybe I die from bleeding, but being hit by nitro aint that big of a problem,
the avto is tho, like 60 bullets, with two sparks pistles is a joke lmao

[little carbon]

A lot of those things don't make the game more casual/lower the skill. Slugs arguably require more precision than buckshot. Necromancer actually hightens the skill ceiling since it's another potential play you have to expect and play around, or use as a play yourself. If you have played in high Elo you know it's not the auto revive lower ELOs sometimes make it sound like. It's loud, has limited range and takes a long time. It's a perfect counter to exploit attacking teams that lack pressure though.
Spitzer is a sidegrade that gives up on one of the strongest aspects of long ammo. Especially considering that the extra MV basically doesn't come into play in most fights.
And fanning seems to be so good that i rarely ever see anyone using it

[little carbon]

The issue really isn't with those weapons but with the fact that people apparently don't want to learn how to play against them. Especially considering that peoples main strategy with the avto seems to have been "make them run out of ammo" instead of learning how to engage. And now that doesn't work anymore people seem to be complaining.

[little carbon]

This event really wasn't grindy at all. Getting the challenges done in a week is really doable in a few hours and that's all that you need to do to finish the event.

[iron trench]

Well, my friend.. Nitros still 1 shot to the chest at 75 meters and you're dead and gone.
Slugs have 20 meters range (for headshot only).. at 20 meters, if you don't hit a headshot, the hunter will not die in only 1 shot.. the difference between 20 meters and 75 meters is brutal.

[fluid locust]

I mean if you just do the weeklies the event is ez. I got mine done within the first month and I work full time and have other obligations. Then I pretty much dropped the game after that.

[frosty garnet]

@cursive cypress, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

I think its about time the function for duos to add a random third was implemented.```

@lethal wolf, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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Add rideable horses, hit them with a vitality shot and throw on a saddle which if could be a tool or consumable```

[lethal wolf]

☹️

[dense schooner]

The weapons are inherently broken within their effective range. There’s a difference between a weapon being good and OP. They’re especially very oppressive when they’re in a team comprised by them and regular long ammo.

[radiant iris]

well my friend, I am well aware of that, that being said, I am not getting one tapped by nitros cause people for some reason dont hit me chest, I die way more often from slugs or from the bleeding effect of the dum dum ammo,
if thats not the case for u, u either unlock or u simple not moving enough

[little carbon]

They arent. Thats what i have been saying. People just have to learn to play against them. They are really good, not gonna deny that but you can contest them even within their effective range, but you have to adjust to them, way more than when playing against other weapons, which i believe a lot of people have issues with, especially those that play the game more casually

[frosty garnet]

@proud flax, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
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@fading plover  it shows you were you got shot from. You wanna see a replay of your head getting blown off.```

[dense schooner]

You can “contest” anything within its effective range. I can contest a slugs user within its effective range with my Krag, all I have to do is get a headshot, right? You could, in theory, but you know the slugs user has the vast majority of chances of fucking you up. Just because you know how to play against them, which is literally staying outside their effective range (that is, once you’re aware of their presence, which is an issue until then), does not mean that they’re not inherently unbalanced within their effective range. It doesn’t make a single bit of sense that I have to get headshots to OHK someone 65m away, when all they have to do is hit my chest. It is as simple as that. And the problem with the avto is just its mosin stats and basically unlimited resupplies.

[brisk timber]

I swear people on this discord dont understand the concept of probability calculation

A good player can do this and that. Play around things and stuff.
But thats not the point. Its about how inherently more favorable some things are to begin with.

Playing with heavy disadvantage because someone buy some $1k op stuff just doesnt feel right.

[little carbon]

But they arent. Short range they will get blown out by shotguns and long range by rifles. Even with a winfield you can play the positioning game against an avto.

[queen jungle]

@fading plover I don' think a kill-cam would really be useful. Even spectate is pretty unreliable and the past CryEngine game with a kill cam was Crysis 3 - and it was usually quite off from reality.

[little carbon]

Thats the point. There is no meaningful increase in chance to win a match just because you bought a nitro/avto/dolch. Maybe there is currently, because people havent learned to oppose them, but thats on them. A nitro requires significantly more work to aim than a rifle, so stay unpredictable, change peeks often and dont repeek the same angle, make them work for their shots. As for range, staying outside of the oneshot range as long as possible, if you push, push close enough to be just outside reliable hipfire range to, again, capitalise on their worse sights. And these are just little things.

[runic crypt]

Never found the Avto to be broken, It is counterable and outplayable just like every other gun, the difference is the method of outplaying. As for the mosin, it is not the stats (I find the Krag to be a more problematic gun than the mosin ever was) but other factors like map design and playstyles that can cause issues. I don't think there is any gun in Hunt currently that is so broken that you can't have a good chance to beat, but you also have to keep in mind that Hunt is unpredictable enough that sometimes, out of your control, you'll find yourself in an unwinnable situation.

[little carbon]

Yes, if there is currently any weapon that is overtuned its the Krag, but even that is within acceptable limits i would say.

[runic crypt]

Yeah for sure like I said no gun exists today is broken in the sense that you can't outplay it often enough, it's usually other factors then make people lose rather than just the GUN itself.

[echo forum]

25m and 50m 2 tap

[dense schooner]

I don’t think anyone would find it highly problematic if everyone exclusively played long ammo and stayed outside compounds for the entirety of games. But we all know that’s boring and not healthy for the game (no variety whatsoever).

I am unsure why we are talking about the normal mosin. I was just saying it is problematic when you fire its rounds at 400 rpm and have basically unlimited resupplies.

If external factors make a gun significantly worse (balance-wise), the problem still lies on the gun itself. You’re not going to change maps dramatically because of a gun.

The issue with the unpredictability of Hunt, is that, yes even when you’re caught at a disadvantage, these weapons still get the job done with significantly less effort than other guns and it does not feel right considering the nature of the game.

As I said earlier, I have to get a headshot to OHK someone at 65m with a regular rifle. A nitro user’s job is just to hit my chest. It does not make sense and it doesn’t contribute to a healthy meta (and no, neither does the Krag)

[echo forum]

Half the people are running a crosshair overlay. The second you tap the aim button you can shoot and the bullet will fly straight. It's not that hard. Avto can easily be sprayed up to 100m. If you hit the first shit you will most likely hit the second to finish them off. The gun is busted. No other gun gets a guaranteed insta kill to the body like that gun. No other gun cam shred through walls with spam like it. Many of the best guns are OP because they control thr flow of combat too well and have a low skill floor.

[runic crypt]

The avto still performs with less effort against snipers? Shotguns? Pincer tactics? Idk man 😛 Also how often do you get Nitro'ed? It isn't easy to hit shots with that gun unless you really put in the effort to learn the sight, and even then, it still takes more effort to hit than with a normal iron sight. Also, the Krag shoots too fast for a long ammo rifle, that is it's issue. It shoots faster than the Vetterli, how is that not unbalanced? A long ammo rifle shoots faster than all medium and long ammo rifles... That's a bit stupid no?

[candid igloo]

what do you guys think about being able to bind THROWING Action for throwables? it just gives you the option if you want it cause i hate going in with throwing axes and not have melee attack on mouse 1 but that might be just me

[little carbon]

Not true, you have hipfire spread until the moment the ADS animation finishes. At least it was like that when i tested it and i didnt see anything in patchnotes that denoted a change

[candid igloo]

nitro is just a long range shotgun that works like a shotgun with slug in hipfire and if you have not seen the (Hunt Showdown: How Shotgun Reticles Deceive You) and (Hunt's Lying Reticle: Continuing the Conversation) see that and now you could under stand why all nitro players do hipfire up to 20-30 m and above that they use the sight

[echo forum]

Use a xhair overlay. It's basically instant. Also...you peek a corner...your opponent is 50m out. You tag him with your winfield...he proceeds to throw 6 bullets out and kill you with body shots before you can even retreat back behind the corner...or he just wall bangs the corner with 10 bullets as you're un peeking. Idk how you can't see its busted unless you're a long ammo camper that doesn't enter compounds.

Second point is about avto

[runic crypt]

Pretty sure you are not accurate till you fully ADS + I don't think developers should obsessively balance based on third-party software and players using external help.

[candid igloo]

you are accurate when you start the ADS

[echo forum]

They should when its as easy as taking a marker and putting a dot on your monitor. The difference between no dot and a dot is massive for quickly ads to target from an unaimed state.

[dense schooner]

I don’t like the idea of having bolt-action snipers especially with spitzer ammo. Shotguns have very limited range.

However, these guns, especially the Nitro, once again, only have to aim at your chest to OHK at a ridiculous distance, when you’d have to go for a (iron sight) headshot with a normal rifle. And with the avto you don’t have to be ridiculously precise to kill within its effective range. This is what I mean with requiring a much lower effort to kill someone.

The guns themselves aren’t extremely common to see, as in, every single game you see them, but theyre fairly common (6* lobbies). I have also used them extensively, mainly the nitro though, (have around 20 hunters with Nitro loadouts) and I still feel nasty using them. It is just point and click. Not too hard.

As for the Krag, I said it doesn’t contribute to a healthy meta. And I agree with the reasons you mentioned

[fading plover]

So sad

[echo forum]

This is an argument against a feature not because the feature is bad but because of dev incompetence lol

[candid igloo]

so i have a Xhair mode on my screen but that is in the middle of the screen and i cant move it dont know if you can move it on other screens but the only why would be downloading 3 party program or a dot on the screen but the aiming area is actually bellow the center of the screen

[dense schooner]

Same thing said when people suggest dynamic weather or any other thingthat would potentially increase resource usage

[candid igloo]

hunt on unreal engine 5 would be nice i guess

or even UE4

[little jackal]

heretic

[dense schooner]

UE5 lighting is insanely good

Makes current hunt look like a ps2 game

[echo forum]

I think Hunt was made with 2012 engine lol

[queen jungle]

Oh boy

[iron trench]

I know, my friend, i'm just lazy.. 25 for Crown n' King and Romero slugs.. 20 for the rest and if i remember well 16 m for handcannons

[queen jungle]

Unreal Engine looks great, but is also extremely resource-hungry. Epic's own performance target for their "lumen" lighting is 30 FPS @ 1080p.

Hunt uses a version of CryEngine 5. Not sure if the exact version is known, but there was an engine update some time in 2019, which would match the release of CE 5.6.

[echo forum]

Where does it say that? They released a statement saying 60 fps for lumem and nanite on ps5/ xbox whatever consoles. With DLSS you will get more.

[queen jungle]

Not really, the question is simply whether or not it's worth the effort. Having been in touch with the gaming industry for almost a decade, let me tell you that most players are entirely unable to discern a cheater from a good player unless the cheating is absolutely obvious (i. e. shooting through solid walls or similar, which the already present spectate would already reveal).

[queen jungle]

That 60 FPS is for open worlds, for detailed indoor-spaces it's 30 FPS in new-gen consoles.

[echo forum]

I mean no kill cam or real spectate means WH don't even need to hide tracing you. It would also show how glaringly bad the netcode is. I have had the fortune of getting a clip of a guy who killed me vs my own perspective and the guy was like 2 seconds ahead of me on his client. I have 20 ping.

[queen jungle]

Personally, i'd love to see ray-tracing and DLSS added to Hunt, but I assume the game is just too old and all the new fancy stuff will be present in Crytek's first CryEngine 6 game, which is possibly going to be Crysis 4.

[dense schooner]

UE5 Fortnite runs at 60fps on consoles and it uses the new fancy stuff Nanite, Lumen, Virtual Shadow Maps, etc

[runic crypt]

That argument though works for every game that uses no-crosshairs as a balancing thing. Take EFT as one example but many exist like it... People will always try to get around a game's design to get an advantage but if you obsess over curbing that then you might just dismantle your entire game.

[candid igloo]

ye its hard to determine if is a cheater if not obvious cause they play smart and probably only use ESP and not auto aim and it would be easier to determine if they where a cheater if we had 120 tick servers and not 30 tick server that make it even harder to determine if they cheat or not

[runic crypt]

I never experience Avto or Nitro fights as crazy as you say even at high 6*. If I move correctly and position myself well then I never really get one-shotted by the Avto nor Nitro. I don't even remember the last time a Nitro or an Avto successfully one-shotted me past shotgun range. If you know how to deal with them they are just like shotguns or sniper rifles, specialized weapons that need to be counter in a different way. I also would put forth this challenge: Can you personally use the Nitro or Avto within your next 10 matches and IMMEDIATELY notice your win rate spike higher than usual? Most would say no if they tried to do so once before.

[echo forum]

Thats why having instant aim to centre is a dumb mechanic for games that don't provide a crosshair. There is a reason games with arcadey aim and movement( like hunt) usually do. Tbh if you're going ro have 1-2 shot body kills you probably should have aim deadzones and movent sway from unads to ads state. You'll significantly improve your aim in Hunt by using a a xhair overlay. Half the weapons have misaligned irons, hard to see irons that blend with enemy models etc.

[echo forum]

This reeks of theorycraft

[runic crypt]

Not a theory if it is observable. Devs even have stats.

[echo forum]

Go watch gameplatylly of higj mmr players with avto and compare the kills they get with it vs a winfield and tell me it looks fair when they spray down 3 people in 2 seconds.

[candid igloo]

and most iron sights are plain wrong from the originals

[runic crypt]

Now that's theorycrafting 😛 No one would upload gameplay of them screwing up massively with the Avto, will they? Go watch the streams of all top players consistently for a few days and note their success rate with Avto/Nitro. But I'm sure you don't have the time.

[queen jungle]

60 FPS is their goal for open spaces. And Fortnite UE5 uses a bunch of things to keep the FPS up, apart from Fortnite already having rather simple graphics, such as dynamic resolution ranging from 864p to 1836p and using upscaling for anything beyond that, with the average being about 55% of 4k.

[echo forum]

Bro ita about the fact thar the gun invalidates half the playstylea and can pull off shit other guns can't that probably shouldnt be possible.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d7YMoon-_L8

[runic crypt]

You can just as well use the in-game crosshairs, put the enemy in the center of the screen, and ADS into a shot. That however, just like the crosshair overlays, can be countered by good movement. And either way, since it is largely doable in game without an overlay, I don't think Crytek is too bothered with hiding where your aim is anyway so...

[echo forum]

No...no it's not. There is a reasom 99% of cs go pros use static crosshair and not some massive barely visible one.

[runic crypt]

Can YOU do that just as well and as consistently?

1. They are showing highlights based on tens of not hundreds of matches
2. These streamers have probably played the weapon for HUNDREDS of hours prior to being able to pull things like this off SOMETIMES.

[echo forum]

Wdym the game looks way better than Hunt lol( obviously it'a stylized) and has higher res textures. It was built on much new engine though so it's to be expected.

[runic crypt]

It's not like everyone can take an Avto now and mow down everyone that isn't holding an Avto effortlessly.

[echo forum]

This is not good logic at all. Look its not OP because you can't do it! Only good players can do it! It's only better than everything else when you get good!

[queen jungle]

To each their own, personally I really dislike the cartoon graphics of Fortnite and would take more realistic ones of CryEngine over UE any day.
Tastes differ after all.

[candid igloo]

biased much 🙂

[runic crypt]

I'm saying it is NOT doable consistently, and when they look like they are "DOMINATING" it is mostly because of their hours and experience, and YES having a weapon being extremely technical can be a way of balancing, ALSO these streamers have even CRAZIER clips with guns that are easier to use....

Why are these streamers then not using Avtos exclusively during tournaments where there is prize money on the line?

It's by far not an OP gun that just boosts your winrate

[candid igloo]

there is tournament with price money on hunt i have only played one that had llike a free DLC

[queen jungle]

It's personal taste, so anybody is biased in that regard. Ever since Crysis, I've always liked the realistic aesthetics that CryEngine produces over others. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[echo forum]

I like more realistic graphics as well but you can see how dated Hunt is. I run DLDSR to upscale a 32:9 monitor by 2.25x and the game still looks insanely grainy, jaggedand hard to see. I like the theme but it's hard to look at Hunt and not see the resemblances to old console fps games.

[echo forum]

Bro if I miss with a winfield I have an eternity to try again. I also have to aim for head to end the fight fast. I have terrible dmg drop off and pen. Avto I just aim in general direction and squeeze off 6 bullets for a kill.

[echo forum]

Because the meta strat for this game to WIN is to still never enter the compound and camp with long ammo.

[dense schooner]

Maybe because waiting/camping with long ammo is meta, which is boring and not healthy for the game. These weapons just make compound fights annoying.

[echo forum]

But if you're playing for fun and actually enter compounds the avto is the strongest gun there

[dense schooner]

Not necessarily win (as in extract with bounty), but getting kills? Very consistently

[echo forum]

This is not a way of balance. High skill cap weapons, items and heroes are not supposed to be better than lesser skilled ones. Games that have taken this path have developed huge problema because eventualluly anyone that is not using the high skill "thing" has basicallu lost at the menu. League is a great example of this. So is Halo 2 and 3 where sniper is harder than BR initially but once you get good you should never die to a BR and it becomes oppressive to play against until they run out of ammo. But that is balanced by making power weapons an objective on the map as part of the map control dynamic. The winners winning more becausr they're winning. The rich get richer.

[runic crypt]

Well:

1. Tournaments were about getting bounty.
2. They didn't camp because obviously speed was key.
3. They used shotguns in their team which if Avtos are better than, why not take that for extra versatility.
4. Again, I don't think the guns are so effortless that anyone that picks it up has a better chance than with a Winfield, a gun that is a lot more straightforward, easier to control, and has a trait that allows it to shoot fast while retaining it's accuracy for over 100m.

[runic crypt]

If high skill cap weapons aren't meant to be better, then why use them vs a low skill cap weapon? They provide certain advantages that the lower skill cap weapons don't, which the Avto and Nitro do but not in a way where it dominates. They are specialized weapons, the Avto is neither as easily accurate with long range shots than a normal mosin, nor is it as dominating close range as a shotgun.

But if you disagree because you hate the Avto then I doubt you'd see anything past that you want the gun nerfed/removed.

[queen jungle]

Hunt's graphics are not as good as they could be, I agree.
And being a graphics-fetishist, I would absolutely love high-res textures, ray tracing and such, but I assume the majority of Hunt players already have their settings on low-ish to get the most FPS and thus don't really care about graphical fidelity, so there is little incentive for Crytek to take on that effort - especially since they're working on Crysis 4, which will likely have all the fancy new tech of CryEngine.

[echo forum]

High skill cap weapons are supposed to offer sidegrades, not upgrades. If they were flat better they would make a good player double better. Better for being a good player..and then better because their weapon is flat better than the low skill weapon. This would basically force the meta to only use those weapons. League has milllions of hours of data and there is a reason they don't make high skill champs better than low skill champs and why they spent years lowering the power of high skill champs.

[runic crypt]

I just made an argument for an Avto not being a clear upgrade

[echo forum]

I want good graphics and high fps. Obviously there is a bit of a tradeoff but the game is not optimized well. I feel hardcapped with a 4090 and 5800x3d. For the hardware I have I feel like I should be getting more than double the FPS of my old 1080 FE system, but I don't

[echo forum]

Its a clear upgrade if you go into compounds.

[runic crypt]

What if a shotgun is in the compound close range? doesn't sound clear cut. Also you just specified you need to be in a compound which is a specific scenario.

Meaning it is not an OP gun if it needs to be in a specific situation that can be avoided as well.

[queen jungle]

The 5800X3D bottlenecks the 4090 of course, but judging by some videos on YT an average of ~230-250 FPS @ 1440p on high settings seems fine for me. After all, even though Hunt could certainly look better, it doesn't look bad.

[candid igloo]

shotguns are so chance based if you get a kill or not, cause if you are aiming at the avto man while he is aiming at you then there is a huge chance that you will hit his arms and not kill him and he only needs to aim at you navel/lower chest and press the trigger and get the kill while you will not kill him

[runic crypt]

Sounds like bad positioning or a bad peek. I usually make sure that when I peek an Avto with a shotgun, I can get my shot out before they realize.

[candid igloo]

gun for gun avto is the best ingame when looking at all the specs and ofc at close to mid range

[runic crypt]

If that's how you look at it then there is no way to convince you of anything else 😛

[echo forum]

The game is pretty much capped at 180fps at 1440p on a UW for me with low settings. I've never seen anyone gettinf 200+ fps lol

[candid igloo]

have you put the fps cap on 9000

just asking might be a dumb Q

[echo forum]

Yep. I've never even seen the streamers above it.

[candid igloo]

k

i have seen people with 500 fps when he tested high end benchmark

of a pc

and it was in multiplayer i think not in trining

training

[echo forum]

No way lol. In training you can get high fps...and you can convince adrenalin you're getting 500fps but not in an actual game with the games own fps counter

[candid igloo]

@echo forum https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOQC1iBxHSc this is with 1440p but i cant find the one with tons of fps

found it but this might be in training

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc4VEeOcF8s

and thats a 4080 aswell

check out 1080p on that

[echo forum]

Thats what I get but mine doesn't go as high but is more stable. You can see his fps drops to 130 and usually average around 160-170 in the video after he leaves spawn and other players start to load in. I get around 185avg

[candid igloo]

so are you running 1440 or 1080?

[iron trench]

I think you're wasting your time trying to argue with this guy... he is probably some avto user, COD player or even 3 stars mmr guy that never sees any avto or doesn't have money to afford it anyway...
The worst thing in this game is the Avtomat no doubt; it doesn't fit this game at all.. imagine a cowboy in 1885 using an AK-47... that's what is happening here...

Almost every gun in this game has a delayed system, where you try to aim properly, take a shot, get in cover, wait for some animation and then peek again for another shot.. but with the avto this doesn't apply, because if you miss the first burst, you still have more 12 shots to wallbang the fuck out with your long ammo dealing 136 damage each bullet...

For me Crytek should remove Avtos entirely from this game, there was no assault rifles in Western Era... and many people would never reach 6 stars if it wasn't for the Avtomats...

[echo forum]

That one is training mode

[echo forum]

1440. 1080 looks especially terrible in this game especially if you run a monitor bigger than 24". Lately I run DLSDR at 2.25x and just lower my fps to a solid 120fps capped.

[candid igloo]

@echo forum https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35PcR6xrh0c in this video you can see that there is a CPU bottleneck

to bad there is a bottleneck

i was going to buy a 5800x3d but then they released that they were doing a 7000x3d so im going to buy that instead

this video shows a normal 7950x with a 4090 and the fps difference is huge

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7Nt5a-fH_Y and this video is only 4k so thats insane

i think the 7000x3d series is going to go very well with the 40 series

[queen jungle]

Well with a 4090 your CPU is already the bottleneck and lowering your settings to "low" moves even more load from the GPU to the CPU, so that most likely explains why your FPS are lacking.

In modern games and with a decent PC, try to avoid low settings and go for medium at least.

[echo forum]

Thats what I'm saying though. There is basically no difference between low and high on performance but it is significantly harder to see on high. Making games so cpu bound means hardware upgrades barely do anything because we've has many more improvements with GPU than CPU

[brisk timber]

Just read the Avto talk...ugh
How can one be so delusional and defend Avto like its just another weapon like every other :))

Mind scenario:
Player vs Players
One duell in open field, 200-100m range.
One duell between cover 50m range.
One duell inside compount.
You have to chose 1 weapon for all 3 scenarios.

You get to chose: a rifle like Winni/Vetterli | A Sniper like Mosin/Lebel/Berthier | Any Shotgun ...aaand a Avtomat

What would anyone chose?

Any sane person would choose the avto because even if its not the best at one single scenario it is most likely to be one of the top dominator in all of the scenarios.

And thats what balancing is about aswell. Its about probabilitys and how something can elevate your potential to a level where you statistically simply perform better then your opponent because of your loadout.

[queen jungle]

I'm just happy we're back to the avto-default, means the balance is fine otherwise.

[brisk timber]

Thats why nitro got this shitty iron sight because it limits its use cases.
And thats what Avto need aswell.
Running it with dual Sparks pistol + Ammo crates is just too much.

[brisk timber]

haha yeah well thats a certain way to put it in a good light :))

[queen jungle]

Avto should become special ammo just like they did with the Dolch back in the day

Or bring Dolch back to medium ammo and watch all hell break loose

[brisk timber]

Lets go bonkers

Bring fully automatic rifles. Enought of this single action stuff.

Would give me an easier time playing solo :)) atleast i could mow down teams reliably

[queen jungle]

OK, hear me out ...

[brisk timber]

Hunt:Showdown 2077 - im up for it

[left nexus]

holy shit can we please do something about these autos. 9 out of 10 games now have them in 5-6 star. its ruining the aesthetic of the game

[wheat pollen]

even as a solo i cannot wait until this self res bullshit is gone. so exhausted of killing people and wondering if they are solo and can self res

[little carbon]

So anyone having a different opinion (a much better formulated and argumented opinion) is a low skill player?
My favourite weapon has been the Winfield for a long time, which is probably the weapon with the closest intersection in effective range with the avto. And I still don't think it's an issue. If you find yourself consistently dying to avtomats, it's entirely your fault for not learning and taking bad peeks.

[little carbon]

Honestly, I'd never choose the avto there. A Winfield will be the better choice there overall. Or a Krag. As you say it's about increasing the overall odds.
And I like my odds against an avtomat with a rifle at all these distances.
Unless of course you are talking about low ELO, where people cant aim, then yeah, the avto might be busted. But balancing should always be done with a weapons potential in mind not with it's power in the hands of an average user.

[echo forum]

If you don't hit the head shot the avto player is going yo sling 10 bullets at you before you can shoot again lol

I find the winfields to be one of the most underwhelming guns in the game personally. I hate their sights and the weird delay between firing

Also who said fanning isnt that goos earlier? Thats just insane talk..basically a free kill if you get within 30m of someone that doesn't insta headshot you. It's so accurate on a bunch of the guns. I often tag someone witg ads at like 50m and then just tap fanning a few times to finish them while I jiggle all over

Pax, conversion and scoffield all insanely accurate with it and the nagant S is a machine gun insta kill weapon at sub 20m.

[frosty garnet]

@civic thorn, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Romero paw print

Five barrel long arm.
One shotgun four small ammo.

Comes paired with Catboy hunter skin.```Attachments:
<https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/524577494863708180/1071902943118381137/20230205_211511.jpg>

[iron trench]

Cool, so why not make your favorite guns shoot like this in this GIF?
No problem at all, right? And also, fully automatic rifles in 1885 seems absolutely legit and fair...
You know i'm being sarcastic here... what i'm trying to say is: I have 3 thousand hours in this game, and if i use an Avto i can easily wipe an entire server all by myself with little effort because 99% of the time i know exactly where people are just by sound, and with an avto, all i need to do is rush them and run them over... and i'm not a God, that's just easier to do with an avto, but much harder to do using every single other gun...
https://i.imgflip.com/4pf4ev.gif

[brisk timber]

As Solo player i love the concept of self revive. But how its done is extremely flawed and annoying.
For one its so easy counterable that its unusable most of the time. If youre too close to your enemy and they are not completely unexperienced you wont get up anyway.

On the other hand for the guys who deny your self revive its just a complete time waste to the point that its even an risk to guard you. Other teams can drive by or you miss some important objective because of the lost time.

BUT
Self revive as a solo is in someway needed.

For me a good solution would be that you could only revive 1 time BUT youre not limited to your corpse.
Maybe take other corpses around as "spawn point". Or say let you swarm around like the assassin or a beetle (maybe you can even get shot/denied in that form) and spawn behind a tree.

If you then get killed your done. period.

[wheat pollen]

Ive even noticed the dead player leaving sound only happens when you leave server.
I spectate when i dont have self revive and seen people watch me for many minutes since i didnt make the whoosh sound and white sparks. Kinda sad and funny

Just go get some food come back 10 mins later and some guys will still be watching

[brisk timber]

Yea it can really be a hard troll feature.
I once waited 5 minutes and then killed the guys who killed me before and sacked the bounty they then got.

its annoying in its current form

[wheat pollen]

Agreed

[echo forum]

I feel like the only way to balance it is for the solo yo have a heavy penalty. Like they climb out of a coffin at a supply point and supply points would have low tier weapons around like an axe or bow

You would have to have something like their old corpse turn black and a sound so players would know an undead solo is roaming

[brisk timber]

lol? You think that would be balanced?
If the solo stands up he even is already max 100hp
Isnt that penalty enough?

And he is >alone< already

Every duo/trio can revive each other 100 times so theres that

[brisk timber]

Yea sure, ofc indicators are needed

But its also needed that a revive has more breathing room for the solo to be actually effective

[echo forum]

I don't think it's a big enough penalty. In it's current state it forces players to bring hellfire and concertina because it'a annoying AF to camp the body. I play solo 99.9% of the time. It's so annoying because grounded snipers get brazen as fuck because if you manage to kill them at range they run away because the revive is so fast. When I use it at bounty lairs its busted because I generally use it to jump in a fight between 2 trios...and then if I die I just rez mid combat with a shotgun for some bs kills on teams that don't really know if im on the other team or not. Solo shouldn'5 have self rez at all but if it'a going to happen it needs a heavy penalty.

But that's just me. Im also of the opinion necromancer should be removed from the game.

Itd be sick if revive time was doubled as well. It's stupidly fast. It seems like insta revive os the strat more than not. Even in fortnite its 10 seconds and the game is like 10x the pace of Hunt lol

[brisk timber]

Yea well its okay that you dont like self revive
But your solutions are so loaded with drawbacks for selfrevive that it shows that you dont want it at all
The kinda penalties you want are just another form of "Just stay the fuck down solo" and be over it
Then we could leave self revive out of the game completely at that point

Would it be so bad if a solo would actually be viable thread after he revives?
Other duos come as double thread with full HP right from the start
Having to kill a solo a second time (with 100hp or 125hp max) is such a trouble?

Im 100% with you about the stupid shit like 4-5 times revive, endless idle time to revive and guarding the corpse for minutes

But thats not a fault of self reviving, just of how its designed now

Maybe reviving at your starting point - okay
Would be viable and maybe less annoying. But pls let me have my guns 😄
i would take that

[brisk timber]

Supidly fast - i dont know man
I cant count how many times i got shot down again in my revive animation.
Its so slow that i wonder whats the point even is if i can get shot instantly anyway.

Btw. are you maybe a long range player?
I can see how selfrevive is more annoying if you are

[echo forum]

Not really lol. I just provided a way for solo to self revive without just getting insta burned and concertina while making it fair. Go search a tower for sparks or my suggestion of combat axe/bow at supply points.

Solo as it is is insanely cheesy. I don't really think it belongs in the game like a bunch of other shit. If you got to revive at a supply point with your mosin...and then harass the team from outside the conpound it's basically a get out of jail free card. You mention the 125hp thing but anyone not running long ammo will still have to shoot you the same amount of times.

This is a game where you die in 1 or 2 shots. Solo is at a disadvantage but not nearly the one you think on a gunplay vs gunplay level. It's shit like necro,red skull revive, 5 sec revive timer, doctor/physician that have made solo vs trios tedious.

[echo forum]

Lol no other game with a revive mechanic lets you revive nearly as fast. Apex...which is like 10000x faster paced has a wayyyy longer revive.

[brisk timber]

I once had a game where a buddy of mine accidentaly joined game without loadout
We searched the map for like 15min for a gun and gave up at one point

Its not really designed that way to be viable - sometimes you find 5 guns, sometimes none at all

And why you want a revive to have such a penalty?
Every team can revive each other pleeeenty of times

And a solo isnt allowed for a single time? sheesh

I cant see how a revive is cheesy

[echo forum]

They could simply modify the placement of world guns on the map like every other similar game does. I think it would be healthier for the game if certain compounds had certain low tier rifles and shotguns around. It would help the stale meta of long ammo camping outside vs shotgun inside if you could grab a spark or rival sawn off.

[echo forum]

Because I can wipe duo and trio and now they're perma dead...with a solo I have to watch them for half the match if I kill them in the woods.

[brisk timber]

You know how annoying it is to stumble across a bush wookie as a solo and be done?
As a team you atleast have the chance that your mates can kill the other team and revive you

as Solo? i can search another game. Char gone. Loadout gone.

[echo forum]

Thats this game though lol half the shit you die to is annoying

[brisk timber]

Man you always bring the argument about current self revive. Arent we already over the point where watching the body 10min is a shit design?

[echo forum]

Team already has bogus oenalty of louder footstels

[brisk timber]

ok but its a difference if you have a team that can revive you
comon dude do we have a discussion or what?

[echo forum]

As a solo you kill a solo....you leave the corpse...10 mins later you get mosin to back of head by same guy. Annoying af

[brisk timber]

Ok

youre repeating nonsense arguments now

[echo forum]

How would you prevent that situation...that has happened to me a few times this event lol

[brisk timber]

lets leave it at that

have a nice monday

[echo forum]

Game is turning into Revolver CoD bruh

Let's not casualizd it even more

[brisk timber]

Thats a strawman argument now

Sheesh

[echo forum]

How would you prevent my earlier hypothetical?

[tired depot]

My idea was deleted?

[fluid locust]

or you can just burn them lol. there's 2 or more of you a nd one of them. have one cover and find lantern if you don't have fire bombs or alert tripmines

[echo forum]

It takes 4 lanterns. The self revive is so fast and competely silent most of the time. I only play solo.

The alert mines don't kill lol neither does fire because most of them run the perk to revive with 125hp

[brisk timber]

4 lanterns? Any dude who stands up everytime he burns is a lunatic. One lantern is enough in 99% of the cases.

And how do you stand up with 125hp as solo? Thats only possible with luna perk

[fluid locust]

99% of people don't revive on the exact moment the lantern stops lol. and if they do then bring a firebomb.

[brisk timber]

And even if

Man thats 4 easy kills

[fluid locust]

imagine complaining about free kills

[brisk timber]

4 times loot

[fluid locust]

ikr

[brisk timber]

I know its stupid. But for gods sake can we stop talking about self revive in form of this event. This event will end soon. Nobody knows if self revive will even stay in this form.

Lets be constructive and talk about how self revive (if at all) could stay AND be cool for everyone

[echo forum]

Imagine thinking padding your K/D is the goal...

[echo forum]

What possible way do you think it couls be implemented that its fair and not frustrating to play against?

[brisk timber]

Like i said before -

1. Limit it to 1x time use (maybe reset the use with looting a dead hunter). So you can be safe that if you killed a guy a second time hes done and gone.
2. Reduce the timeframe a revive can be used to maybe 30sec or a minute at max. No lying in the ground for 10min and then revive like jesus christ himselfe.
3. As a buff for revive and not to get corpse camped let the solo guy revive in a space around his corpse with some mechanic. Like he transform into something like the assassin when he crawls over the floor or like a flying bug. Then the player can revive himselfe behind a wall or tree. Maybe let players even interrupt this process if fast enough idk.
4. Make it visible that the player revived by transforming his corpse to ashes or burning charcoal.
5. also make it more visible if a player disconnected OR denied his self revive.

Another thing besides self revive is give every damn hunter a damn lighter/zippo to burn corpses in meele range without tools.

Lamps and firebombs would still be viable to throw at hunters in position which are difficult to reach.

[fluid locust]

imagine being afraid of a dead body lul

[fluid locust]

I feel like the only nerf needed if they implemented it into the game would be to make the revive take longer. the instant revive out of nowhere before you can heal/reload is kinda where someone can actually catch you off guard

[brisk timber]

Sorry but no. Its reeeally rare that the enemy has literaly 0 bullets left and even then if he is relativetly close by pulling the meele is faster then the revive.
The key is to not heal or reload if youre not close to the corpse.
If you play it down like that a revive gets denied 99 out of 100 times.

It gets so effectivetly denied that way that if you play against people who do this your self revive is completely (and i mean coooompletely) useless.

The only time where a self revive cant be 100% denied is at range and your enemy has bad aim or you drop out of sight.

Maybe its because people havent playef much solo to know how to counter self revive or that its still so fresh in the game. But if you use it more often and people know how to counter it, its actually very underwhelming.

Right now im so frustrated by self revive in actual fights that i barely use it. It barely works out and only tanks my mmr. I mainly use it as a fall back plan to revive my hunter after 10min and then go extract with tail between legs.

Its that ineffective that it has become a second cheat death. I dont think that that should be its purpose.

[echo forum]

I play solo only so yeah....it's quite annoying if I kill a solo between a compound and now have to worry for the next 30 mins if I'm goinf to take a mosin round to the back as I try to solo a trio at the boss lair.

[echo forum]

Quite easy when you get dropped near bushes and trees. Especially if you're not running long ammo yourself.

[echo forum]

Bruh as I solo I use it when two trios fight to add absolute chaos....you cant even hear the self revive lmao

[echo forum]

You can revive faster than someone can reload a sparks round

[brisk timber]

its like you ignore everything i say and always fall back to the same arguments i told you 3 times youre either right in this cases or your talking bullshit in this cases. Whats wrong with you

[brisk timber]

Yea. Its like the only case where you cant deny 100%. Isnt that okay? Even then you only need to hit this guy 1 time for 100hp nearly every proper gun can do that if youre not 100meters away.

[echo forum]

Most guns cant do that if you hit the body because the insane dmg drop off after 30m.

[brisk timber]

And? Thats good. Youre alone ffs. Thats the strong point of beeing solo. Does solo HAS to come only with drawbacks?

[echo forum]

It takes 3 winfield rounds to kill at 100m

[brisk timber]

Yea at full hp. Wtf are you on about

[echo forum]

55 dmg to body at 100m

[brisk timber]

And winnie is like the worst main gun for that cenario what are you on about

So you wanna tell me you should be able to deny a self revive 100% at 100m witb any gun?

What is your point

Your talking rubbish

Man i dont know if you trollin at this point or youre so afraid of a solo to stand back up again. Like you want the solo guy to stay the fuck down for whatever reason.

[echo forum]

I literally only play solo!!!!!!!

Its bullshit to face other solo with self revive

[brisk timber]

If you play solo only at this point then bring a loadout that can handle other solo revives ffs

Thats your only fuckin complaint for like the whole topic. Because you cant deny a revive 100% you wanna get rid of it completely. Youre acting like you saw a Spider and wanna burn your whole housr down

[echo forum]

Yeah true let me make my loadout about how to keep annoying ass solo revive down so I'm gimped against trios

[brisk timber]

Pack a damn firebomb ffs thats bo waste and it costd 30 bucks. Come on dude

And i say it again
Im 100% with you on how long and how often one can self revive. Can we get over it? Man thats your only point and you stretch it like everything depends on that point

[echo forum]

Honestly man it sounds like you're a not so great player that wants an easier more casual time. We already get MMR downgrade as a solo. My solo matches are usually easier than my trio 6 star matches.

[brisk timber]

Aaaand here we are: git gud argument.

[echo forum]

Yeah let me take a consumable thats usually worthless. Definitely better than flash,frag and synringes to actualluly fight.

[brisk timber]

You sound like youre full of yourselfe and always ride this one argument like a dead horse. I told you now several times what could be done about the problems witv infinite revives and stuff.
You just ignore it all the time.
You never progress the topic and fall back.
You just dont want self revive. Period. And thats fine. But than dont act like you wanna have a constructive discussion.
What a waste of time tbh

[echo forum]

Bro you're literally a new player that justs want an easy experience instead of learning the game

I mentioned my supply point suggestion and you say its crazy because you want to go back in with your gun....then later you say you usually run to extraction if you self res lmao

[brisk timber]

Man i could give a fuck about anything. But we are here in a freakin feedback channel to discuss feedback. I like this feature for what ever reason. Its convenient and makes fight fairer. Every team can revive each other anytime, thats no big deal. Hell breaks lose if a solo shall be able to?

Man if you wanna scold me for beeing new and discuss featured here then you are a damn gatekeeper. While you self deny any constructive discusse and be like a toddler yelling "But i dont want!"

Why you even here when you dont want discussion

Gi play some 6* trio

[brisk timber]

Ffs i said i dont like the idea too much but it would be okay with me. Are you dense?

Lets stop

Lets agree to disagree

[echo forum]

A trio literally need to make noise to run to their team mate and stationary revive him...or they necro as you hold angle and you kill ( necro still lame AF). A solo literally just quietly gets up. As a solo I know if I down a player they can't get up without me hearing for the most part. If I run away to grab a lantern 99% of the time I come back to no body. If theu kill me after they might just be the type that's happy to ADD at my body for 15mins until I quit the game. It's lamr af. Solo rev is actaully not a big deal for a trio if they kill you close range and they aren't fighting another team. One guy watches while other grabs lanterns and then throw concertina on your body. For a solo? Gl.

Ads*

[brisk timber]

Dude. Did you read?
I told you that could be countered by max time to revive 30sec or a miniute. If you dont have fire you watch corpse for that short time. After that you sure he cant revive.

But you ignore my argumentd all the freakin time

Man i tell you.
Lets keep self revive.
But the hunter revive naked.
With 25 hp.
Is tied to the ground.
Everyone can have a go at him then.

I think then self revive is convenient for everyone. Cool? Cool.

Im out. Shees.

[echo forum]

I like that suggestion

[iron trench]

@wheat bloom High Velocity Pax and High Velocity Springfield would be awesome...

[queen jungle]

IIRC it was stated during a dev stream some time ago that they don't want movement options such as leaning or going prone to make encounters more direct, more like shootouts in classic western movies.

[little carbon]

Yes it was. It was quite a while back, but they haven't said anything different since then

[iron trench]

@cloud wharfYou should stop vaulting with space and instead separate jump and vault in independent buttons.

[spice topaz]

Separating those keys should be one of the first things for anyone to do. For the people of parkour a vault key working like auto interact wouldn't be the worst thing though. Some use the mouse wheel to be able to hit the tricky ones consistently. Then again I have to run back to get my axes all the time even with the auto interact so I'm not sure if the vaulting would work any better.

[brisk timber]

@thick sluice
In regard of the "corpse vision" trait i would like to suggest to incorporate that into the vulture trait. That would make this trait a trillion times more usefull 🙂

[little jackal]

Problem is you will be able to track revives with that vision, but man I'd at least make corpses visible in the darksight boost. Hate searching for the bodies after a fight

[brisk timber]

can you elaborate?

[little jackal]

like, in bushes or on the other side of a wall, you down somebody, you know there's a teammate next to them, you watch the body and when it disappears, you shoot there

same as it happens rn with a downed bounty holder, whenever you see the icon disappear, you just wallbang the shit out of them

[brisk timber]

tbh i think that just sound even more awesome

i like if you can use little stuff like that for tactical purposes

expands the skill ceiling of a game

[little jackal]

maybe

[unborn dagger]

Yeah that's a thing that should only be available if you have the bounty and seconds

[queen jungle]

@thick sluice i get your idea, but tbh I think it's fine to have some traits that are more geared towards solos.

[frosty garnet]

@royal cosmos, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

I would really reallly like a way to favorite the 54 toons I have in my inventory to quickly be able to choose the one i want rather than having to scroll 10 times before i find the one i want to run with.```

[thick sluice]

But you can already do that just listening for the sound hunters make when they get revived, yes it would be easier to know they exact position and where to aim, but if you downed him you should already know that, it's not that I can see it having not tactical use to track who is still down and who isn't, but I don't think that something you can't already do just by listening

[thick sluice]

hmm I guess, I never really thought of Conduit as a solo trait

maybe it would be too strong if you had a trio running around with 15 minutes stamina boost, but you still need to buy the trait

[brisk timber]

Im with you. The fact that you dont have to waddle around an area for 5min to find some corpse to loot is such a game changing QoL feature that it really has to be in the game 😂

man how that annoyes me when that happens

Worst thing is you sniper some guys in an open grass field and try to find the corpses

Or damn water

To pair that corpse highlight vision with vulture would even be awesome for teamplay in a trio. Because the 3rd guy can specialize and be the the one who highlights the corpse and can loot as last a third time.

[worthy knoll]

1. the Devs/Dennis Said that a trait Like this will never Happen because it could be used to Wallbang downed Players and If it works only on dead Players it would give information about the Rest of the Server etc. Something Like this.
   I disagree there but thats basically the reason that was given.

2. Vulture ks extremly useful especially in Trios. But even in Duos. Looting every Hunter that is Not burned is a great source of income or consumables in a Fight where a frag bomb could come in Handy.

[spare temple]

Tbh we need more traits with whacky applications.

[karmic ivy]

@brisk timber "Rakki — Yesterday at 8:57 PM
Server stability should be no1 priority."

Crytek has said this very thing on streams. Server ARE their top priority. How could they NOT be?

[tribal wyvern]

The issue still exists, so obviously they're not working on it.
Every user who calls IT be like 🙂

[karmic ivy]

No, a multiplayer FPS game like Hunt, ALWAYS has servers in the top priority. You would be foolish to think otherwise. Its their bread and butter. You don't neglect the bread and butter.

[tribal wyvern]

Ye sorry to disappoint, but thats not the reality.

If something isn't immediatly improved or solved, they don't think you're working on it.
Even tho shit can be fucking difficult to solve.

And they always come with asinine ideas like "JuSt BuY MoRE sErVeRS"

[karmic ivy]

@tribal wyvern
My point remains, No sane company as big as Crytek, with a game as successful as Hunt, would neglect their servers and place them anywhere but in the TOP priority. It is a ridiculous proposition.

[karmic ivy]

@pearl rose
"gaurav h — Today at 5:41 AM
all servers are bad?"

No, the US servers are excellent.
I don't play with my friends in EU that often, but when I do EU servers have been as expected, higher latency, but good considering the geography.

[tight delta]

Much of especially german server issues stem from things outside of Crytek's / Leaseweb's control. Tata Communications usually have extremely congested hops on their network, and for example Telekom peers with them. Telekom should fix the issue by not using Tata's poor network, but they are not doing anything for some reason.

There's a path of networks your data goes through, starting from your LAN, going to your ISP, then to some other networks until the data reaches Hunt's servers. If some network along the path that is not controlled by Crytek / Leaseweb is causing issues, they can't fix that.

[echo forum]

that sounds so silly lol. So many of those movies aren't just walk away duels haha. I thought it would be nice because a lot of what makes some interactions annoying is that your only option to enter a room is basically to just walk into the door way or wiggle your shoulder to try and bait out a shotgun camper if you think they might be there. A lot of stuff would be better if the option wasn't just throw your body into the door.

[queen jungle]

Personally, I'd recommend throwing a stick of dynamite into the door first

[echo forum]

tbh after 4 years..it doesn't seem like this is remotely true. Especially since they renewed with leaseweb lol

[echo forum]

I get you, that's why I carry flashes but it's kinda like oh...it didn't kill...guess I better go find another door or better yet...just not enter the compound ( boring)

It's also what makes the jump peeking with shotgun so annoying lol

[echo forum]

20 tick desync fest

[outer wedge]

@rotund oasis
@queen jungle
@ancient onyx
@wary hinge
Why its such a bad ideia having a kill feed for party members in randoms ?? pre-mades allrdy have comms.. explain me real good why randoms can't have that QoL...

[echo forum]

they should simply fix the the comm system lol. A kill feed sounds terrible for a game like this

[outer wedge]

i know it sounds terrible, but its actually valuable information, they give us so much bullshit information, the one that matters the most we can't have it..

[queen jungle]

A kill feed was previously rejected by the devs as players are not meant to have an indicator whether or not a shot they took killed another player or not. They even went as far as to hide live progress updates on kill-based quests and challenges to avoid players abusing the progress bar to see if they hit a killing shot.

[outer wedge]

they rejected loot as well..

[echo forum]

That's what I think is terrible. I hate spoonfed info in games. They just need to add team only chat for randoms. It's insane that they don't have it ..

[unborn dagger]

^

Hunt is all about hearing and looking for your info

[outer wedge]

when you have 2 mates camping in the bush at the sound of gunshots , gl

[queen jungle]

It's a risk of playing with randoms. Not even unique to Hunt tbh, playing with randoms is a gamble in most games.

[outer wedge]

But you are right, a better Comms system would be better

risk..ok bro

[echo forum]

its insane that they designed the game to actively punish randoms

like they are already at a disadvantage vs a group that regularly players together ( synergy, strategy,comms) but then you make it so the randoms can't even talk without being 2 ft away from each other or alerting the enemy team lol. I feel like ever triple kill dynamite or frag I've had was because randoms had to run so close together to talk.

[unborn dagger]

I mean it is a risk. You're deciding to play with people that you don't know about instead of getting friends or people that know how to play the game

[queen jungle]

@candid igloo Please refrain from posting the same suggestion more than once in #game-ideas

[candid igloo]

worth a try i guess wanted to see if i could get more interaction

[burnt mulch]

@outer wedge shift+enter
to start
a new line

[outer wedge]

Thanks, i know

Still, i would argue that Randoms should only play vs other Randoms, the only randoms queue i instant quit is snipers, other than than i instant press ready, sometimes is people with 0.70, or people with 100 kills, i don't care, and then we get destroyed by a pre made 3x6 stars blasting nitros and avtos... fkcing amazing... and you come and say, well, its a risk... ye right..

[wary hinge]

it is a risk
literally how every single multiplayer game ever works
randoms will always be at a disadvantage to premades

Although communication with randoms should improve imo. Such as adding more detail to the ping system

I also think that the lil thing that tells you who is talking should only appear for your own team or in a 5 meter radius. Normally when people speak you dont actually hear/understand them but you do see that lil blue box with their username in it knowing you are close.

[echo forum]

ping systems are shit...use mouth. No reason there is no voice chat for randoms only

[wary hinge]

there literally is a voice chat in the game for randoms

also pings are fairly useful for quick mentions of lets say crows while movin, or saying hey someones behind this wall without alerting the person behind the wall

[echo forum]

a voice chat you can only hear each other if you're within 10 m...a voice chat that everyone else can hear. Yeah bro totally makes sense why every other game has a team chat only and Hunt doesn't.

if you throw out a ping I have no clue what it means lmao

it will never replace a detailed or precise language

[burnt mulch]

ping systems are great

[wary hinge]

its almost as if adding more detail to the ping

[burnt mulch]

tf you mean

[wary hinge]

would make you understand it better

also yeah pings are extremely practical

[burnt mulch]

Hunt's ping system is shit because there's only 2

[wary hinge]

^

[burnt mulch]

if we had a radial ping system, it'd work perfectly fine

and way better than voice, which most people don't use even if it's team only

[echo forum]

I play apex. It probably has the best ping system available. It's still slow and shit compared to voice comms.

[wary hinge]

My main issue with the vc in this game is the fact that from like 20 meters out you have htis massive blue box that tells everyone X player is speaking

[echo forum]

like you can't ping... " he's behind me!!" as you're running from an enemy because you have to face where you ping.

You can't ping without LoS

[echo forum]

there should be no proximity chat only when more than half the players are premades in discord

[wary hinge]

I disagree

[echo forum]

premades can literally die and tell their team where things are... I can't do that as a random

[wary hinge]

Although i tend to be of the opinion all games of this variety should have only proxy vc

whether or not premades exist

[echo forum]

that's an intentionally dumb design decision when discord exists

[burnt mulch]

let me rephrase, I'm not saying that pings are better in a direct 1:1 in a vacuum.
pings are better for randoms.

[wary hinge]

I thought that was obvious practical

[echo forum]

I doubt it. Rocket league added voice chat... I win way more games with randoms when they use voice chat then when I try to quickchat to comm.

[burnt mulch]

well, given the rebuttal I received, it doesn't seem like it was obvious to jakey.

[wary hinge]

is that not vc in a vacuum

[frosty garnet]

@shy leaf, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

https://youtu.be/i9unRRGPydA```

[echo forum]

I think giving people more low effort comm just makes the experience worse. Put in your mic and talk...otherwise go play solo or singleplayer games.

[echo forum]

what does this mean???? It's not proximity based lmao

[burnt mulch]

...

it means you need to take into account things other than a direct comparison between ping and vc

[wary hinge]

Practical literally said obviously randoms with pings are worse than vc in a vacuum

You then said no and gave an example of the thing he said

[burnt mulch]

like, for example, how likely it is for someone to use pinging vs using voice chat

I play randoms precisely because I don't want to vc. otherwise I'd play with people in this discord.

which is effectively randoms with voice chat

[echo forum]

that sounds like a great team experience for the randoms. Very social. Very multiplayer.

[burnt mulch]

it is lol

[echo forum]

no it's not...

[wary hinge]

You can still work together with people without being able to speak

[burnt mulch]

you can gatekeep "multiplayer experience" as much as you want

[echo forum]

how? with winks lmao

[wary hinge]

Pings

[burnt mulch]

but you're not the arbiter of truth

[wary hinge]

the thing that hunt needs improved

If the pings had more details, more options, changed based on what you pinged

[echo forum]

bro you literally are basically playing as a solo but taking up a team slot. How is that shit engaging? Games were the most fun when you could actually talk to random people and have fun and new experiences.

[burnt mulch]

I'm not playing like a solo in a team.

[echo forum]

Now it's a wall of silence with ping spams

[burnt mulch]

I'm playing like a teammate.

if you personally do not think that multiplayer without vc is true multiplayer, you're free to join groups on discord.

[echo forum]

how are you playing as a team with no communication?>

[burnt mulch]

I communicate with pings. which could use improvement.

and my gameplay involves looking at my teammates and figuring out what they're trying to do.

[echo forum]

it's funny how shit in 2023 has worse systems than games from 1999-2016. Y'know when people actually would talk instead of hiding away in voice chat and acting selfish with random Q

[burnt mulch]

😐

[wary hinge]

lmao

[echo forum]

game should just give us a block list so I can block randoms with no mic from ever being put in my mm again

[burnt mulch]

why do you even join randoms then

[wary hinge]

I talk sometimes, I dont talk sometimes

You can do just as well without talking as talking

[burnt mulch]

just play on discord

this doesn't affect you

[echo forum]

Ya go try that with any cooperative endeavor offline and watch how fast you get booted from the group.

[wary hinge]

you are comparing something online to something offline

you realize how different that changes the situation

[echo forum]

it does because I don't want to have to form a premade anytime I want a social game. I can literally boot up CS GO and everyone is on the mic.

[echo forum]

it's a universal truth of all cooperative endeavors though. The difference is you don't get punished for asocial behavior in a team environment online.

[burnt mulch]

imagine wanting to play a game.

[outer wedge]

GL trying to ping 2 dead bodies while fighting a 3rd

[echo forum]

there is solo Q for people that don't want to talk.

[wary hinge]

There is also randoms too

[burnt mulch]

solo Q is a thing in every game, they match you with teammates

[echo forum]

I'

im obviously talking about no fill... solo. That's why I have been differentiating between random Q and Solo Q.

[burnt mulch]

sure.

but the random Q experience in hunt is the solo Q matched experience in other games

[echo forum]

Bruh this discord is hilarious. Half you people just want easy stomps vs randoms that can't communicate beyond 10m and have to give all the info away if they want to talk.

[burnt mulch]

bro I'm literally speaking from the perspective of someone who uses random Q

[wary hinge]

^

never been in a vc in this place

[burnt mulch]

you're just making shit up

[echo forum]

not all of them. People literally talk constantly in CS GO and Valorant because it's a prerequisite for success

[burnt mulch]

you've never been in low ranks.

you've also never played overwatch or league of legends

[echo forum]

you don't play in a premade group?

[echo forum]

there is no VC in leaguel. Random Q's get stomped into the ground by premades

[burnt mulch]

that's literally what we've been saying

[echo forum]

tha'ts what you've been saying

[wary hinge]

only randoms or solo
I used to play with a few buds outside of here but that was few and far between

[burnt mulch]

you gotta get your head out of your ass and actually arguing with us instead of with whatever turd you found in your gut

[wary hinge]

my primary experience has always been randoms

and solo

[echo forum]

I play solo 99.9% because I have a higher chance of winning as a solo than I do with randoms because of 0 comms. At least I get mmr reduction as a solo.

I don't play randoms because it's a shit experience

no one talks

[burnt mulch]

your argument is literally "a better ping system makes the experience worse because less people will voice chat"

[echo forum]

that's literally the case with Apex Legends

[burnt mulch]

the people who are going to use the better ping system the most are literally the people who wouldn't voice chat in the first place

[echo forum]

That's not really the case. The more low effort stuff you add the more likely people are going to use that instead of more rewarding, more effort systems.

it's the same reason almost everyone will opt for using the OP loadouts over the hard to use ones.

[burnt mulch]

you got statistics or something to back that up or are you just spitting things that confirm your worldviews?

[wary hinge]

The amount of effort to use the system isnt the issue.
Its the effectiveness of the system in relation to the rewards

[echo forum]

it also just makes the game more cartoony . Pings shouldn't be a thing at all. Use you comm skills. Call out landmarks. The more advanced pings get you might as well just add enemy tagging and a BF style HUD. Let the game spoonfeed the info.

[burnt mulch]

the reason people use "the OP loadouts" is because they're better

[burnt mulch]

slippery slope argument.

[echo forum]

they're less effort too. A crossbow can become a high tier weapon in skilled hands....but slugs are much easier to use so they're more prevalent.

[echo forum]

slippery slopes do in fact exist

[burnt mulch]

a crossbow is a high tier weapon if you're bloody hacking

[echo forum]

I mean it can one shot at a much higher range than the shotgun but it's not point and click.

[burnt mulch]

we're not talking about TAS strats here

[burnt mulch]

so can a mosin, if you hit their head.

[echo forum]

a mosin is point and click. That's why its so popular

[burnt mulch]

no, it's popular because it's realistic.

[echo forum]

realistic? lol come on bruh tell me you have never shot a gun without telling me

[burnt mulch]

...

[echo forum]

yeah I'm just dead accurate with my mosin when jiggling all over

[burnt mulch]

a realistic level of skill required to use the weapon at a level of effectiveness that makes it better than other options

at this point you've got to be intentionally misreading my statements

I refuse to believe someone can be this obtuse

whatever

believe what you want

ping wheel good

[echo forum]

it has the lowest penalty for hitting limbs. It has high velocity making it easier to aim. It has high reward for hitting chest because of flat dmg across all distances. This means players you hit lose more healing. It is barely slower than a veterelli. It has high pen value. It has reliable hipfire at sub 20m. It's an easy gun. Easy gun = less effort.

the mosin is probably easy for new players and high level players than something like a bow, winfield or silenced vet.

the sparks is the more skilled version of it and there is a reason you barely see that gun.

[burnt mulch]

sorry I guess we're not allowed to use good guns because they're easy

gotta be a l33t gamer

if you're not using a derringer, you're just robbing yourself of a good gameplay experience because it's so rewarding

throwing knives are harder to use than a bow so high level players actually use throwing knives. it's very skilled

[wary hinge]

Obviously a weapon with better stats will be easier to use than a weapon with worse stats
Things with low skill floors are going to be picked up earlier especially when the things with higher skill floors still dont massively outcompete the lower skill floor items.

But balance doesnt align itself with usage of a ping system, or other similar non directly game winning systems

[echo forum]

I mean the problem with some of the guns is they outclass the other guns so much that they become a handicap to play. Some guns are too easy for the reward. Others too hard for the reward.

[burnt mulch]

nono wait I got it!

real players use the ping system!

because it's worse than voice chat

so it's more rewarding when you win!

I solved it

[echo forum]

Its worse but lower effort

[burnt mulch]

wdym? it's harder to win so you have to spend more effort to win

therefore rewarding

[wary hinge]

Its lower effort to use, but higher effort to use effectively

[echo forum]

Its like people that eat pop tarts for breakfast because it's easy even though its worse than eggs and bacon in every way.

[burnt mulch]

nono eating pop tarts for breakfast is hard

because you need to fix your nutrition for the rest of the day

[echo forum]

If the reward is low but effort is high you will get frustrated and eventually stop the task

Thats why I dont play random q

[burnt mulch]

but you said that playing without voice chat is low effort

get your story straight 4head

[wary hinge]

Jakey if the ping system makes winning harder does that not mean that it makes winning inherently higher effort. Sure pressing the button is easier than saying a sentence so its lower effort there.

But isnt the win the actual goal

so thats what you would look at

[echo forum]

Its low effort and low reward

Its neautral enough for people to mindlessly keep clicking the button

[burnt mulch]

it's low effort for me to bring a bow and low reward for me to lazily play with it

it's high effort to play effectively without voice chat and high reward for doing so (I get to win and I don't have to talk to people, double win)

ez

[echo forum]

If I carry a game and my team mates have no comms it becomes a draining experience that I don't feel like repeating because the effort vs reward value is wrong. Same with the frustration vs fun value.

[echo forum]

The bow is a high effort weapon. There is a reason you see very few bows out there. It's high effort low reward. Other weapons do what it does much easier.

[burnt mulch]

it's really simple.
you have the core belief that by improving things for people who are worse off than you (playing randoms without voice chat and without a good ping system) it will somehow negatively affect you.

it's not my job to convice you otherwise.

I'm just here to make fun of you

[echo forum]

Look at console hunt for a good example of this with the console meta. Its hard to aim on console so everyone runs spam weapons and zig zags with melee weapons.

Path of least resitancr

[dense schooner]

Only true up to 4* lobbies. 5-6, primarily 6* console is not what you described. long ammo and power weapons reign

[echo forum]

Ive seen a shitload of dualies and avto spam in 6 star console lobbies.

[dense schooner]

i want to be in those lobbies. dualies are extremely rare in 6*.

[echo forum]

Also people were using explosibe ammo forever on console

[dense schooner]

Yeah when explosive was busted

It’s not an issue anymore with bulwark making explosive xbow useless

and the rest of long ammo weapons w explosive being nerfed to death

[echo forum]

It was yhe exact same on pc though and didnt have the same problem

[tight delta]

The explosive ammo was not prevalent on PC at all, ever. What got the ammo nerfed to the ground was the "shoot-at-the-feet" meta on console, people were running 2 medium springfields with explosive ammo and 2-tapped everyone with the splash damage from the explosive rounds.

Clicking heads and having penetration was still far more efficient on PC.

Sucks that an OK ammo (on PC) was dumped into the garbage tier because console and PC are not balanced separately.

[brisk timber]

Man im actually so hyped about my idea of bounty transport events. That shit would be so awesome to experience. Like suddently you hear like a bell or a train horn and you get a message that a transport is crossing the map!

Then people run to the crossing path as fast as they can. And you can even see the trains steam cloud in the distance. Maybe you hear an explosion because somebody crashed the transport

Or you see the transport approaching BUT there are people already on the ride with like an old machinegun installed. You Headshot the gunner and your mate throws an dynamite bundle to crash the riding team completely!

Or you have a bounty and suddently a transport enters the map and you ride this thing into sundawn while enemy hunters getting smaller behind you!

[dense schooner]

@late wind some user(s) in here has/have suggested ammo caps to prevent long ammo stacking with dual sparks pistols

[late wind]

Eh. If you want to run a loadout that gives you 50+ rounds of compact I'm okay with that. This is such a niche problem a blanket nerf seems overkill.

This whole idea of blanket ammo reserves based on type is stupid anyway.

Ammo and reserves should be based on the gun itself, not the ammo type it has. Because it leads to nonsense like this. And honestly if I had my way only weapons of the same cartridge could share ammo. But oh well.

[dense schooner]

it’s not a bad idea overall. but i only care about the long ammo part and 20 rounds is a reasonable cap for it

[frosty garnet]

@shy leaf, your post below has been deleted, as it doesn't follow the required format.
You can find all guidelines pinned in the ideas channel.

Please feel free to re-post your idea using the correct format:
Matched regex in message in #game-ideas (#suggestions-ideas, 524577494863708180):

Tripwire mines using grenades with a wire just like the traps we have now. But with a boom!```

[remote ore]

@dense shuttle dude lol, radioactivity and airplanes really? the setting of the game is the 19th century. I know it's a fictive one, but still...

[runic crypt]

High 6-star player. 2.82 KD. I wager I can beat you using an Avto with me using a nagant pistol 9 out of 10 times. If you think the Avto is OP and is super easy to pick up and use without any effort, then you probably don't know how to use it and you never bothered to learn how to counter it.

[runic crypt]

Sounds like you are playing in 3* lobbies my guy. Avto isn't all that easy or powerful if the people you are playing against are somewhat competent.

[tame igloo]

@dense shuttle best suggestion I've ver seen

[dense shuttle]

we could also add a time travel mechanic, i don't see the problem

the game lives in a universe where people take random fires and see stuff and we cant invent a time travel to get a nuke? eh

[remote ore]

the problem is that it doesn't fit the existing lore or atmosphere 🤷

[zinc solstice]

@loud light the idea is that you're supposed to survive to earn the rewards from your actions

If you're getting yourself killed then you dont really earn the right to keep your spoils

[queen jungle]

@mental wigeon I'd absolutely love such a hardcore mode with all the old features that got removed, but I'm afraid there aren't many people left looking for such an experience in Hunt 😐

[loud light]

yeah you're right its just not a game for me happens !

[iron trench]

Tell me, my friend.. why there is plenty of people that uses only Avtomats + Double Sparks Pistols to rush event points?

[remote ore]

there are also plenty of people using shotguns

[iron trench]

@inner forge Imagine a stylized folding stock that uses springs to hold the stock closed and opened... sounds cool.

[iron trench]

My friend... the one and only reason i'm not playing this game anymore it's because 8 out of 10 games i enter there is sweat-lords using Avtomats and Nitros (even in duos), and there is nothing i can do because i'm a veteran in this game (in other words, i will still keep falling in lobbies against these guys over and over again); There are dozens of guns in this game, but yet still, people uses those every time, every match... If you don't see a problem with that, I don't know, man... maybe you're the one using avtos and nitros every match that i'm talking about...

And i say it again... if it wasn't for that, i'll still playing the game... if what i'm saying isn't truth, i would still be enjoying it normally.

[loud light]

i'm leaving for the same reasons nobody wants to gun fight they camp in a corner with a shotgun take the bounty and sprints to the extraction

[iron trench]

And you have to be honest with me, my guy... what the f*ck a fully automatic rifle is doing in a 1885 Western game...?!
"Le'me show u my fully automatic cowboy gun, kid.. Yee-Haw!"

[runic crypt]

You can still not enjoy the game even if what you're saying is not the truth, you just don't know how to deal with those weapons. And I never use those weapons at all and I rarely see them in 6* lobbies coz when I do, it's either someone very competent at it with lots of hours of practice, or they don't know what they are doing and they are easy kills. Also, what are zombies doing in a 1895 Western game?! Wait, Bomblance? That doesn't exist! TAKE IT OUT! Or wait, they are taking creative liberties maybe?

[little carbon]

I am a veteran too, have been playing this game since it came out, but i dont really have an issue playing against those people. I have enough contraband "power weapons" to prove they can be countered. If you have issues with those guns specifically, it might just be on you

[runic crypt]

By the way, fully automatic weapons existed before 1895 IF we are really going with the realism or historic accuracy route, they just opted for a more interesting version of one that existed later.

[iron trench]

Cool let's make a Western Rocket Launcher, why not?
https://media.tenor.com/xdZHy9mGz1cAAAAC/blaine-gibson-rpg.gif

[little carbon]

I see mostly mosins and Krag's on EU

[runic crypt]

Because they decided not to. It's their game to decide what to put in or not. What, just because they put in one fake thing they have to put in every fake thing?

[little carbon]

Krag is like the strongest weapon in the game by far currently

[runic crypt]

I mean why not collab with Capcom to put in Nemesis if they already have zombies? Because they don't want to....

What kind of argument is that 😛

[runic crypt]

Ye same

Krag is currently the meta disruptor atm

[iron trench]

Awesome.. people would love it...

[runic crypt]

Okay? What's your point here 😛

[little carbon]

Explosive Crossbow. Its as close to a rocket launcher as the avto is to an actual AR rifle

[runic crypt]

^

[iron trench]

Show me then a fully automatic rifle in 1885, I dare you.

[runic crypt]

Just pointing out using the "realism" or "historical accuracy" argument doesn't really work in a game where the devs are clearly taking creative liberties. But because they are taking creative liberties doesn't mean they need to implement every crazy idea.

[iron trench]

Another ammo that is toxic to the game...

[runic crypt]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_rifle

Like 2 second googling

Btw the game is set in 1895

Soooooo

[little carbon]

"Mannlicher's Model 85 semi automatic rifle used his recoil operated action originally developed in 1883",
quote from wikipedia

[runic crypt]

Also the game is set in a fictional, alternate history.

Besides, many of the guns are already questionable in their placement in the game if you want to go by exact historical dates.

sooooooooooooooooo

[iron trench]

As far as i know and searched before, this gun is semi-automatic, but i could be wrong.

[runic crypt]

The Avtomat behaves the same as this gun: It is Self-Loading.

[little carbon]

And again, the realism argument is utterly pointless. Balance and core gameplay concepts are the only important factors for content.
And the avtomat doesnt breach any

[iron trench]

So we're doomed...

[runic crypt]

The Avtomat is still a "bolt-action" but the bolting and loading is done automatically. It's how older portable automatic guns worked in that period.

[runic crypt]

No, people that don't know how to counter the Avto and Nitro are doomed. I'm fine.

[little carbon]

I would have enough contraband avtos to fuel an army if i hadnt opted to collect dolches

[runic crypt]

I honestly sprint full-speed at the sound of an Avto or Nitro in 6* lobbies. 90% of the time it's an easy kill. Not even a brag, they just think the guns are so OP and easy to use but are shocked when they can't hit jack.

[iron trench]

I totally agree with you...
Let's us reduce the avto damage to 124 and make the timing to ads slower...

[iron trench]

Me too, my friend... me too... i'm with 600.00 hunt dollars..

[vivid grove]

The event is ridicules short for someone who only plays like 2-3 hours a day and people like that get panished and unable to get the rewards even with timed boosters and the like

[runic crypt]

Honestly, I don't think this is a good change but I think it is so small if it was implemented I wouldn't care, and I don't think it will make it any easier for you to fight against it.

[little carbon]

Id be fine with the damage nerf, wouldnt change the guns primary purpose a lot. Ads time would be a bad change, since all ads times are unified in Hunt, that would go against a lot of game design principles

[runic crypt]

The way you deal with Avto is distance/positioning depending on your loadout.

Put 'em in a spot where the gun underperforms vs yours

[little carbon]

Would make avto + single sparks pistol an interesting loadout, cause you keep the insta down on a precise sidearm

[runic crypt]

That or use utilities/pincer tactics. Don't peek with your teammates from the same angle. Spread and peek from different sides.

Having less damage won't solve your issue if you make the common mistakes people do against the Avto, 124 damage won't make that much of a change if the user knows what they are doing with it.

[iron trench]

Try to re-peek an avto guy... and if this guy is rushing you turning the corner and you miss the headshot you're 100% dead.. try to shoot and take cover in a game that most of the covers are made of wood, you peek, miss the head but hit the chest, if you try for another shot you're dead and gone even from 50 meters away, or even the guy just wallbang 15 bullets at you.. it's a mix of long ammo meta + 15 bullets non stop preasure... no other gun does this...

And i say nerf it to 124 damage, because probably if he hits your lower body + arm or shoulder at some distance you probably won't die anymore so he'll need to hit 2 to the chest at least.

[dense schooner]

in order for it to be a meaningful nerf, it has to be brought down to dolch-like damage and give it medium ammo properties lol. youll still get 2 tapped 99% of the time with 124 dmg

[little carbon]

Important part about the damage nerf is the one hit kill removal on a downed hunter

[runic crypt]

Why I re-peek an avto instead of rotating? Why would I be so close to an Avto without a shotgun? Why would I take cover behind something I know the Avto user can wallbang me through, when often enough there is non-wallbangable cover or cover that conceals my position well enough that he can't just spray till they kill me? Again, I don't personally like that nerf because I believe it won't really solve any problems but I won't be against because... Well it literally doesn't affect an Avto user that knows what they are doing with it 😛

[dense schooner]

that really doesnt matter much though

most of your kills arent downed hunters

if that mattered then nobody would use the krag for example

[iron trench]

I have another idea... a different one...
Remove the automatic option and make it a 'semi-avtomat' mosin with only the option of the 3 shots burst... it'll fit the pace most of guns have in this game... if the guy misses the burst you can punish him by peeking and shooting him before he could shoot again.

[dense schooner]

it actually matters less in an automatic weapon

[iron trench]

Maybe you're right

[little carbon]

Well, Krag + sparps / uppercut is a loadout and it takes away a lot of lethality on longer ranges, the avto nerf that is

[dense schooner]

i can count with one hand the occasions where ive had to three tap someone with krag

[little carbon]

Medium ammo would make the avto just bad

[dense schooner]

which is good for game balance

[little carbon]

No, balance is good for game balance

[dense schooner]

what

[runic crypt]

Ehh honestly if a lot of people really don't know how to counter the Avto at it's current state then maybe this could help, but I would feel bad for the people that invested time to master the gun. Either way, I don't use it and I don't have problems facing it so while I don't agree with a change like this just because I find it unnecessary, I also wouldn't oppose it because it largely won't affect me.

[dense schooner]

if the avto was removed from the game, nearly everyone would still play the game. it doesnt contribute to a healthy game balance whatsoever

[runic crypt]

It is certainly the most creative change I've seen suggested so far

[little carbon]

overnerfing / overbuffing to cycle the meta is something that games do that have lost the ability to balance properly

[runic crypt]

Same can be said about the Krag or many other weapons, I don't think this is necessarily a good argument 😛

[little carbon]

This is a decent nerf. Takes away a situational ability the gun had but keeps its primary loop intact

[dense schooner]

the krag is a separate issue and ive expressed my thoughts on it

a lot of people have here in fact suggested things that would shake up the meta (for good) like buffing medium ammo weapons

[runic crypt]

I know, I'm pointing out that your argument is too general it can be applied erroneously

[dense schooner]

well, i've numerously said why specifically the avto doesnt really have a place in this game

and how it specifically doesnt contribute to a healthy meta

[little carbon]

@iron trench you might want to make that a suggestion, i think it would have a shot to get decent traction, and crytek is prone to change things if the community is vocal enough (alamo, Krag...)

[runic crypt]

And I've numerously provided counter-arguments to why it doesn't hurt the meta at all. Mosins and Krags are way worse than the Avto ever was.

[dense schooner]

Mosin is fine. krag isnt

[little carbon]

Yes the mosin is fine, but its at the uppermost edge of being fine

[dense schooner]

in fact, sparks pistols also contribute to the problem with long ammo in general

[runic crypt]

Avtos just got popular coz of the high ammo reserves with dual wielding sparks pistols and now people are fighting against them more often and don't know what they are doing wrong. It isn't disrupting the meta or making it unhealthy.

[dense schooner]

not just with avto

[runic crypt]

Mosins are fine in general, they do limit the meta way more heavily than the Avto, therefore if we are talking about a "healthy" meta most would say it's bad for it.

[iron trench]

I really enjoyed the conversation here, my friends... very useful... i'll keep reading what you guys are saying, i just need to get food here, because here in my country it's time to lunch..👍

[runic crypt]

Enjoy your meal ^^

[dense schooner]

It's not just the mosin, it's long ammo in general, and especially how easy it is to stack ammo

[runic crypt]

Yeah fair good point, but yeah avtos are by far the least offender of the long ammo rifles.

In terms of making the meta stale or "unhealthy"

[dense schooner]

It's a niche case

[little carbon]

Same, its rare to have a good conversation. And enjoy your meal

[worthy knoll]

@hybrid orchid concerning that those Metal helmets of hellhounds can sometimes even withstand Long Ammo I was wondering why No Hunter wears Armor... I mean why wouldnt you?