#yellow-archived

1 messages · Page 15 of 1

molten yew
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why only zigbee and no z-wave? licencing?

little peak
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Is the plan to continue to produce these beyond the initial run?

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Because Zigbee > Z-Wave smart2

orchid zodiac
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only if you're looking at price tbh

old haven
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Z-Wave means we need to be certified before you can sell a product with one

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And the Zigbee chip will be able to get a firmware upgrade to do Thread, so it is compatible with Matter

sweet charm
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what's the matter?

old haven
compact quartz
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forum post is still unlisted

little peak
sweet charm
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if the pi 5 compute uses the same form-factor is there a chance it'd be compatible?

old haven
little peak
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Wrong reply! 😄

sweet charm
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nah, he "fixed" the supplies issue 😉

orchid zodiac
shut cedar
compact quartz
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"In surprising news today, all the chip shortages have been fixed with a single click"

thick parrot
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modular compute would be awesome

orchid zodiac
sweet charm
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how long until gen 2 with a secondary m.2 e-key for a google coral board? (I'm kidding)

orchid zodiac
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will the POE on these be more efficient than the official RPI POE hats?

little peak
orchid zodiac
molten yew
orchid zodiac
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and I haven't seen any USB3 based sticks

orchid zodiac
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feedback for v2.0!

little peak
orchid zodiac
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it probably is SPI or something since both zwave & zigbee modules talk over serial

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but still, it's a bit weird that it isn't future proofed by having the module either removable or a USB port for a user to pick what kind of module they want

old haven
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USB 3.0 creates interference with 2.4Ghz signals like Zigbee/Thread

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That's why we always recommend using a USB extension cable

orchid zodiac
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right, so why is the zigbee module inside the case?

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next to the hardware causing issues?

odd berry
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couldn't it have been usb 2.0 ports like the two type A ports?

wanton tapir
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Is SiLabs helping you get some of the MGM210's? they are a pita to source right now.

shut cedar
shut cedar
shut cedar
orchid zodiac
thick parrot
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could cram a 25pin serial in there 😛

shut cedar
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The Zigbee module has no "native" USB. All the USB Zigbee sticks are based on USB to UART chips. Amber bypasses the USB step: Going from the CPU via "native" serial port directly to the Zigbee module. It avoids the whole USB stack, which makes it reliable and fast.

orchid zodiac
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so that also avoids the USB3.0 interference issue?

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does the zigbee module have an external antenna?

shut cedar
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Yes, definitly no USB 3.0 interference issues on Amber 😅

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The Zigbee module comes with a ceramic chip antenna. The sensitivity is really outstanding: In my (unscientific) test it beat all USB based solutions I have on my desk

thick parrot
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i'd be interested to hear more about the decision to go rpi4 and not stick with odroid like the blue. that was a common question about blue "is this better than the pi4"

nimble grove
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The Blue has a more powerful CPU than Amber, but is less flexible, it doesn't have Zigbee/Thread/Matter, no M2 slot for a NVMe SSD or Google Coral and isn't modular/updateable

shut cedar
thick parrot
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thanks for the info! was just curious as a geek.

old haven
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Also, we don't have an SD Card in Amber 🙂

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That was a big pain point that we see in a normal Pi

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But with compute module eMMC is an option

thick parrot
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I'd expect a lot of questions about wifi. the great thing about it is flexibility if placement. but the bad thing about it is, its wifi

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i guess a usb wifi stick if people need it?

nimble grove
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WiFi is an option on the CM4, so if you really want it, get a CM4 with WiFi

thick parrot
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ah ok cool

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i see now (i searched for wifi, not wi-fi)

old haven
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the backbone of your smart home really shouldn't be on WiFi though

thick parrot
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oh agreed, i just know itll come up 🙂

supple robin
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will it have a RTC?

nimble grove
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Yes

thick parrot
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i see it on the page

frigid cedar
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So the Amber replaces the Blue? Or are they coexisting?

thick parrot
supple robin
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i just saw the cmos batt and wondered…

pearl shadow
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The 'no wireless CM4' doesn't have bluetooth either, right?

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I kinda need bluetooth tho I only have one bluetooth device.
Wireless CM4 + POE kit = $211 🥲
Do I really need it? I'm running my HA on a NUC11.

orchid zodiac
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Nuc11 will run circles around the pi

pearl shadow
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So I don't need amber, but it's so cool 😂

orchid zodiac
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it's more for people who want a HA equivalent of a SmartThings or HomeSeer hub

little peak
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For anyone that doesn't have a dedicated 'hub' so far, I'd say. If you're already on a Pi 4 or an NUC, you're good. If you're still running on something older, this is a decent upgrade.

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Too many people use a Pi 3 (or lower) and complain about performance issues. Especially when running on an SD card.

old haven
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We're going to launch our introduction & Q&A live stream in 5 minutes. Hope to see everyone there! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPR-shzT_VQ

YouTube
Home Assistant
Home Assistant Amber introduction and Q&A

Join crowdfunding https://www.crowdsupply.com/nabu-casa/home-assistant-amber

Introducing Home Assistant Amber 💛

Device for both beginners and home automation enthusiasts and easiest way to get started with Home Assistant. Future proof, ready for current and upcoming home automation protocols, and upgradable.

▶ Play video
pearl shadow
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live!

thick parrot
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😄

supple robin
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i fear people will still find underpowered barrel psu‘s… poor boards 😂

pure quartz
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How do you install ha onto amber?

green elm
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Congrats on the big announcement! One thing I just thought of (or course just after the stream ended). If you have a CM4 lite and an NVME drive, do you still install HA over the USB-C plug?

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With no onboard storage, would that just install onto the NVME?

compact quartz
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I assume you flash the NVME, yes

green elm
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So an eMMC chip isn't needed to boot and then hand off to the NVME, it can all be done off the NVME drive?

compact quartz
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boot from usb, use a flash utility to install to nvme

green elm
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Neat. Thanks!

weak nova
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Very interesting

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June 30th, 2022 is a ways away. Guess I'll run used Intel NUCs + EXT Zigbee Gateways until then.

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Congratulations on the efforts. This is what an IoT Gateway should be and the price point is very nice. Ya'll are going to eat a large share of Hubitat and DEVELCO's business if you pull this off.

sweet charm
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so if you go with a google coral in the M.2 you use a USB drive for the OS?

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or is the os stored on the compute module?

compact quartz
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@sweet charm you'd go with the emmc on the compute module

sweet charm
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so "You can upgrade to a more powerful version of the Compute Module 4 at any time." means I would have to flash the emmc somehow?

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sorry, I'm not super familiar with the compute module 😞

compact quartz
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Yes

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The compute module is just the "basics" of a pi4 basically. Kind of a blank slate where you add it to another board to get what you want out of it.

sweet charm
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would I need an IO board for that or can the amber put it into mass storage mode? that I can then connect to another machine to flash it?

compact quartz
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here it is on a board meant to be a router

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@sweet charm you would flash the emmc by making use of a usb stick

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which would have a utility for that

sweet charm
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sorry. are you saying I'd install the new compute module, then install the new OS from the amber itself? or do I have to flash it before installing it on the amber?

compact quartz
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lol

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why so worried about the how. It won't be available till next year

sweet charm
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curiousity!

compact quartz
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You have a usb stick, you boot from usb, you install HA to emmc or to nvme depending on your intent

sweet charm
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👍

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got it now 😄

analog lava
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not to be a downer, but is anybody else kind of underwhelmed by this?

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I mean it's great and all, but doesn't seem like it would be that big of an upgrade from the blue, besides the M2 slot

fathom zinc
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the PoE part is nice

analog lava
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that's true I suppose

fathom zinc
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i'm always for an upgradable solution as well

analog lava
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whenever a cm5 drops I guess?

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like I said, it's great

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but I was hoping for something more... "relatable"?

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I just upgraded away from an N2 (not the + like an HA blue) to an x86 server machine, so this is inconsequential to me, and I'm sure there are many of us running similar (or better) hardware, realizing long ago that an SBC wasn't ideal

fathom zinc
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built in zigbee is neat

analog lava
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how much is the amber? I didn't get to watch the whole stream yet

compact quartz
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link is in the topic

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how much it is depends on how much of it you want

analog lava
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hold up, they're not even funded yet?

fathom zinc
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wonder if it'd be rough for them to add a ESP or wifi chip to the board so you could have an IoT that's almost all in one package

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oh the CM can do wifi

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neat

compact quartz
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no one wants wifi. but if you want it, you can get the CM4 that has wifi

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oh you beat me

fathom zinc
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well i figure, zigbee + wifi + addon zwave, now you're an all-in-one "Hub" 😉

compact quartz
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you forgot bluetooth

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but yeah, add them

fathom zinc
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that way your precious data network doesn't get dirtied with IoT gear 😛

analog lava
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built in ZigBee is nice I suppose

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I'll quit pooing 😅

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home assistant amber 🥳🥳

fathom zinc
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not sure of HAOS has a wifi AP software, but that'd be a neat little setup

shut cedar
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WiFi chips are not creaated equally: meaning some (or the drivers of them) are optimized for Station mode (client) and some fo AP. Not sure how well RPis (Broadcom) is suited for AP mode

fathom zinc
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not sure of the specific chip, but my broadcom based wifi routers worked quite when before i retired them

dusty pond
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Really liked the Amber and very tempted to pre-order... but I already run a pi4+zigbee so I am leaning away from it right now. The NVME is the biggest draw for me (though I really would like the onboard zigbee!). I see a definite trend towards an HA 'Appliance' so I'm really curious to see where things end up.

Congrats on the launch, product looks great, hope it's a success! 🙂

Remind us nearer the end of the funding and I'll see if my feelings have changed 😄

supple robin
lethal timber
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I'm very happy with my ruckus 720. Back in a days, I did also everything by my own but then I realise for some use case, it's different to have some cheap consumer stuff or professionalise hardware. I have a lot wifi devices over 3 floors + garden and just a single AP which handle everything perfect into each corner of my area with almost 600mbit/s and more

shut cedar
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@supple robin @fathom zinc Quickly researched that topic, it seems that there are limits in certain firmware versions etc. people reporting of 5 to 9 devices max in certain versions. But it seems that there are firmwares which allow more clients, people reporting 20 and up.. So I guess the idea is in the cards, technically... 🙂
https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux/issues/3010

steady viper
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Just caught up on the HA Amber. I think it would be useful to have a table or some kind of comparison chart between Blue & Amber. Im just thinking if i was new to the project i would be lost that there was two offerings, but no easy overview of why i would pick one over the other!

latent fern
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there's a section on the CrowdSupply page

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Home Assistant Amber vs Home Assistant Blue

thick parrot
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im not sure you can even buy a blue anymore can you?

hard jewel
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No, HA Blue was a limited run and is no longer available. So people looking to buy HA hardware from Nabu Casa can only go for HA Amber.

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But as RobC said that is all explained on the CrowdSupply page.

compact quartz
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You can still get odroids

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Just not the odroid n2+ with the HA case.

old haven
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Actually, there are still some Home Assistant Blue in stock! We just won't produce new ones.

hexed obsidian
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Next summer is obviously a way out but I predict HA will be much more newb friendly in 9 months which is likely more of the target audience.

Thoughts?

old haven
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The target audience is anyone that is getting started, currently running a Raspberry Pi 3 or wants to have a more integrated solution (less dongles sticking out)

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Obviously Home Assistant will improve in the next 9 months but everyone benefits from our improvements, not just new users.

languid lava
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I feel disturbed that I just got a HA blue lol

old haven
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Don't be! The Blue will be supported for many many years, we even still support the Raspberry Pi 1

shut cedar
languid lava
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ok that does make me feel slightly better lol

heavy gale
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Regarding the suggestion to use an AI accelerator instead of adding more storage; is HA already doing anything today that would benefit from this added firepower?

shut cedar
heavy gale
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Interesting, nice catch

cobalt pier
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Nice idea,
But dont you think that the compute module connector (apperantly theyre called 100-pin mezzanine connectors)
ll get a another formfactor on the pi5?

wraith needle
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Or how will the thread/matter support on the Amber look like?

old haven
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@wraith needle so Amber contains the module that will be able to talk Matter over Thread. For Matter in Home Assistant our plan is to rely on the official Python bindings in the Matter reference implementation

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we don't currently have anything to share because their implementation seems to be in flux, preventing us from building something around it

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the goal is to approach Matter like we did Z-Wave JS

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So we build a server on top of the Matter reference implementation and have Home Assistant connect to that

wraith needle
old haven
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We will bring Matter to all of Home Assistant so it won't be limited to just the Amber, it's just that with Amber you don't need a USB dongle

wraith needle
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Can the Amber do simultaneously do matter, thread and zigbee at the same time? They all use the same data layer

old haven
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Maybe

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SL is looking into being able to multi-band Matter + Zigbee but there is no firmware available/confirmed that they are succeeding

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btw Matter is using Thread under the hood

wraith needle
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I see

wraith needle
old haven
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So Zigbee is really 2 things: a mesh network and an application layer

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Thread is an improved version of the Zigbee mesh network

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Matter is an application layer based on Zigbee 3.0

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But the great thing is that Matter is not limited to just Thread. It will also work over your local network.

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So you can have a Wi-Fi lightbulb that can be controlled over Matter

wraith needle
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Yeah exactly, thats also the annoying thing of zigbee, the application later definition is limited (ZCL I mean)

wraith needle
old haven
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Correct. HA (the gateway) is able to talk Matter via the Thread radio and it's ethernet connection.

old haven
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I have no idea what that is, but that's for sure not a Home Assistant Amber 🙂

fathom zinc
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NAS with Wifi

compact quartz
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It's also an alert level on a covid quarantine list

mystic shard
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Hunderds of HA users are using with full satisfaction ZIGBEE2MQTT but nobody from the Nabu Casa team has or will answer the question if ZIGBEE2MQTT will run on the intergrated zigbee chip. Can someone clear the air with this ?

nova osprey
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It's a standard CC2652, it should work fine.

bold carbon
dusky hollow
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Hi, if you back the Amber Kit without de Pi CM4 and the shipping estimation is currently Jul-2022, is it worth to buy the CM4 today or is it better waiting for future Pi4 CM4 releases or product improvements?

versed steeple
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Congrats to team on Amber! Backed, will use for my parents likely…am also intrigued by the integrated zigbee. matter needs to settle out a bit I suspect 🙂

shut cedar
shut cedar
shut cedar
frosty cypress
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Answering not for your sake but for the community; you may have solved it and be all good, but not everyone else.

shy relic
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I thought you left and went to openhab... patiently waiting for that

compact quartz
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There's no interest in the software or the hardware here. Everything you say to jonas will be ignored. I suggest everyone do the same

shy relic
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Yeah no

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when you head over there, don't let the door hit ya on the way out 👋

rich moth
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This not going anywhere ......The project has decided its direction ....You can either follow and be happy of move on ... I am saying if this continues will result in a ban

delicate cape
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I may be late to the party but there's no way I can find the answer in this swarm of comments. Did you consider adding a connector to plug an external antenna to the zigbee chip? I suspect the range with the built in antenna might not be the best, so gaining a few dB can be helpful.

compact quartz
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@delicate cape it has a ceramic antenna which was tested and is said to have excellent range. I believe @shut cedar went through a number of chips before picking this one

delicate cape
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good to know. I am wary of built in antennas, specially because I put my devices in a rack that acts a bit as a faraday cage

mighty chasm
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So im planning to back the amber, but is 2GB ram enough RAM on the CM4?

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wow, shipping in july 2022?

compact quartz
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@mighty chasm choose a kit and you can pick your own CM4 with more ram, wifi, Bluetooth, etc. There are 32 variants(!) Hard to find right now, but hopefully they'll be easier to come by soon.

mighty chasm
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shipping in mid 2022.. a bit to long for me. So I will purchase when it is available. My unraid server works fine. Just wanted to support home assistant a bit more.. update: I backed the project

chilly flower
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Just a quick question. If u get An amber when you install the OS on it do you install the OS on the SSD or on the RPI?

thorny hornet
humble cave
old haven
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@chilly flower we will be adding instructions on how to install HA OS on the Rpi compute module and SSD. It will be done using a USB stick. Note that this is only necessary for the kit variant.

tacit owl
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Congrats to the team with 101%

mental stump
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quick question:
I backed the project but I got no confirmation from my credit card provider, did something go wrong or will I be charged in future (when the project is confirmed/started or when orders ship)?

silent totem
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If I place an order for an Amber kit today, when can I expect to receive it?

humble cave
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@mental stump it might be it will charge you once it's done yes (end of the month or whenever it was or soon since it reached its goal)

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@silent totem there's a shipping date estimate under each option on the crowdsupply page

silent totem
humble cave
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When did you last went to an optometrist 🧐

silent totem
compact quartz
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@bold atlas it's the remaining GPIO pins

tacit owl
mystic shard
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Okay, we will wait and see. Thanks.

rugged lodge
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I assume after connecting the zwave controller to USB it will work as in the standard installation on rpi4? I'm currently using Aotec and am happy with this and don't want to switch to zigbee.
I'm interested in the project because I've been suffering from low memory (1GB) for a while now, and the database file is draining my SD card quite a bit. And unlike Blue, there is a BL option (I have a lot of miflora sensors 🙂 ).

old haven
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Yes, Z-Wave will work like on the Pi. So we detect the stick and you can use it

topaz galleon
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I own a slae Zigbee stick. Does this mean I can throw away that stick? Does the onboard perform better?

old haven
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I am not familiar with the slae zigbee stick. I would definitely not throw anything away that works

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But yeah, with Amber you don't need a Zigbee stick to do Zigbee

smoky wing
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I'm currently running HA on a Pi4 with a SATA SSD on a m.2. USB 3 breakout. I have some issues with interference with my zigbee stick. So I have to have my Zigbee stick on a USB extension. Has this been tested on the amber hardware? 🙂

lethal timber
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yes. Also the M.2 connector is directly connected to the CM4 which is future approved and stable over updates and of curse a lot faster

old haven
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The interference is caused by USB 3.0. On Amber we do not have USB 3.0

weak sable
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What’s the benefit of coral AI vs nvme SSD? Is coral plug and play?

old haven
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Coral allows you to offload AI work from the Compute Module to the Coral stick

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That way you can do a lot more machine learning with, for example, Frigate

fierce sable
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DAMNNNNNN!! Fully funded in just 5 Days Excellent 😄

tacit owl
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120%

hushed kayak
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%021

lament moon
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has anyone actually tested using the Coral M.2 accelerator with the Amber board

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and as of at least a few weeks ago it straight up doesn't work, and can't be made to work without a silicon respin

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edge TPU is hardwired to do 64-bit transfers, PCIe host IP in the BCM2711 only supports 32-bit transfers

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I would love to be wrong about this :/

shut cedar
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That the BCM2711 (and also the revision used on CM4) only supports 32-bit transfers is also mentioned in the CM4 datasheet

unknown.png
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Tests with Coral TPU on Amber only went as far as checking detection on PCIe bus and APEX driver loading. But it seems that this problem only appears once the driver is being used.

shut cedar
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Unfortunately I can only confirm what has been found in that issue: The Coral PCIe Edge TPU doesn't work with the CM4 currently: Even with hacked up drivers etc. it currently gets stuck during interference presumably waiting for a DMA transfer to complete.

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edge TPU is hardwired to do 64-bit transfers, PCIe host IP in the BCM2711 only supports 32-bit transfers
From what mbrooksx writes this is the current hypothesis. It seems that it hasn't finally verified.

But with all the research which already has been going on it seems likely that this is a hardware limitation. And it is also unlikely that there is a software work around for it 😦

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We'll update the Crowd Funding page. Thanks @lament moon bringing this up!

lament moon
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Gumstix make a CM4-to-CM3 adapter board (CM4 Uprev) and there's a version of it with an Edge TPU on the adapter; what they don't mention is there's also a PCIe USB3.0 controller on there because direct PCIe doesn't work

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technically Google are at fault, they shouldn't be assuming 64-bit transfer support, but that's neither here nor there really 🤷‍♂️

lament moon
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tbh I was hoping someone had found a workaround 😆 really looking forward to getting my hands on an amber board though!

latent fern
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yeah, need to excise this bit:

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The slot can also be used to plug in AI accelerators like Google Coral to significantly increase the amount of machine learning the Home Assistant Amber can do.

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and this bit:

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Expansion slot
For NVMe SSDs or Google Coral AI Accelerator (M-Key)

lament moon
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It should work with the Up AI Core X boards with the Intel Movidius VPUs, if you want another AI accelerator to reference

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they’re focused on vision processing, so could be useful with security cameras etc?

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but realistically, almost everyone’s going to put an NVMe SSD in there

latent fern
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it's somewhat less important with an eMMC as primary storage vs. an SD card

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eMMC is already a significant improvement in performance and longevity compared to most SD-drive Pis

lament moon
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yeah, but capacity

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I'll be dropping a 4/8GB CM4L on there with a random 128GB NVMe drive I have lying around so I'm not worried about the ~12GB postgresql DB 😛

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but I am a crazy person

nocturne mesa
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Hey! Has the Amber setup been tested under consistent load? I wasn't able to find anything about heat dissipation beside the heat sink, it seems like there are no options for active cooling available. Is there no problem to run the CM4 (and possibly future versions) together with other components inside such an enclosure?

shut cedar
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Yes, I run the latest engineering sample under full load

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I run the test for 8h, the CM4 did not even went into throttle. That is with ambient 25°C

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Compared to most Raspberry Pi 4 setup (with no or just a small heat sink), Amber will perform quite well.

nocturne mesa
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Okay, that actually looks comparable to my current setup with a normal RPi 4. The specified limit (of the core) is 85°C, correct?

oblique creek
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Dearest, how to get the BOM for the Amber board?

shut cedar
shut cedar
oblique creek
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I want to contribute and I want to learn about the Matter SDK

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I purchased the module from Silicon Labs, but they didnt provided the training in the WorksWith Event

shut cedar
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The radio module we planning to use is the MGM210PA32JIA2. Currently its not available though 😦

shut cedar
oblique creek
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All of them, let me share my purchase order from Mouser

shut cedar
oblique creek
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You can watch on-demand the event

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Was very nice event

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Some workshop of Matter are very interesting

shut cedar
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Cool. Yeah I wanted to catch up on some of them as well, but Crowd Funding and other things kept me busy 🙂

oblique creek
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This is the order from Mouser, I can contribute with those modules

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(I removed personal information)

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I am PCB designer, and I want to focus on the Matter SDK

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Any progress related to build the PCB and make tests, I am here to help.
After the WorksWith event I runout the cash hhh.
But as soon as I can I will purchase the board in the crowdsupply site

shut cedar
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Very cool! Do you do FCC as well? We hope we don't need to do to much testing since we are using a pre-certified module.

oblique creek
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A friend of me is the co-founder, I can ask soon

shut cedar
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The SLWRB4181C board you got has pretty much the same SoC as Amber is using from what I can tell

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Its the EFR32 Series 2 chip

oblique creek
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I got another two boards of that serie.
Let me share the part number with you.

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BGM220-EK4314A
Bluetooth Development Tools - 802.15.1 BGM220 Explorer Kit

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SLTB010A
Bluetooth Development Tools - 802.15.1 EFR32BG22 Thunderboard Kit

shut cedar
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That comes with the BGM220PC22HNA module, seems to be a EFR32BG22 SoC. Similar, but I guess not exactly same

oblique creek
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These two boards are gifts from Silicon Labs

oblique creek
shut cedar
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For Thread/Matter you need the multiprotocol ones EFR32MG21 (note the M, I guess it stands for multiprotocol)

oblique creek
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Perfect

oblique creek
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Seem fit perfect that board that I have.

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Thank you for the support.
Any source released I will be attentive to review and contribute.
Have a nice weekend

shut cedar
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Thanks, you too!

oblique creek
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FCC test are basically the same as IEC.

mystic iron
#

Since its a problem with zwave and frequency mess will amber expose the gpio for a zwave shield / internal module?

old haven
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There are some GPIO headers on there

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it exposes a serial header

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so I guess you could hook up Z-Wave there? We haven't tried

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A Z-Wave stick is always possible (but not internal)

oblique creek
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The RaZberry is a tiny daughter card that sits on top of the Raspberry PI GPIO connector

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I can help designing new tiny daughter cards with new Z-Wave components with more stock in the market.

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Could you share the pinout of the GPIO?

#

_Aeotec Z-Pi 7 was developed to control actuators and sensors in a Z-Wave Plus Network as a self-powered Z-Wave® GPIO Adapter. _

#

There are two boards that seems can fix perfectly to the current GPIO header of Amber

#

I can invest and try it. But at the moment we can confirm with the pinout.

#

Z-Wave.Me RaZberry Z-Wave plug-on module for Raspberry Pi ZMEERAZ

shut cedar
#

The GPIO J11 matches the first 10 pins of the Pi 4 pin header. Afaict this should make it possible to use that Z-Wave daughter card.

tacit owl
#

Are we going to break $200K ?

old haven
#

29 days left 😛

heavy gale
#

Amber has more backers, 1572 vs 610.
Take that, YIO!

old haven
#

$200k boom!

unknown.png
thick parrot
#

congrats!

green elm
#

Any consideration for a $250k stretch goal? Like adding a Neopixel or something?

fathom pecan
old haven
#

we're hardware limited by the Compute Module only supporting single PCIe

#

No plans for stretch goals

slow sundial
#

Alright this is dope

storm mural
#

so if we back now do we get hardware asap?

latent fern
#

expected shipping dates are listed in the reward descriptions

storm mural
#

ooof a long way off

#

i guess I'll stick to my virtual machine for now

shut cedar
#

Yeah component situation of some critical parts pushed delivery dates quite a bit out 😦

keen parcel
#

wow

keen parcel
#

So how does one install home assistant on a computer module / amber?

#

compute *

humble cave
#

depends on the storage medium

#

same way you'd install any other OS on a CM4

keen parcel
#

I’m thinking I’ll use nvme

#

I kinda leapt before I looked with amber, went for the POE kit without thinking I had no idea how to load the os to a CM4

humble cave
#

I'm sure there will be instructions of course

old haven
#

The basic instructions are in the last update on top of the crowdfunding page

#

Basically install on usb stick and the usb stick will install the compute module. Able to deal with both ssd and nvme

keen parcel
#

👍

mental basin
#

Now that Amber will become a thing - what is the fate of HA Blue?

hard jewel
mental basin
dawn forum
#

It's sad that there is such a high shipping cost. 40 dollars shipping 🥲

fringe pendant
#

"estimated to ship Nov 30, 2022" Why so long?

old haven
#

It's a conservative estimate. Basically we added a month extra after each 1000 units sold. It's due to the chip shortage

#

And we tried to design around it but it still bit our ass as the chip stocks change fast.

spring tundra
#

I wonder what the chances are that rasp pi 5 compute will click right on.. that would be amazing.

old haven
#

Although you shouldn't use this as part of your buying decision, and this is pure speculation, but I think the odds are high that they will be compatible.

My reasoning is: compute module 1 and 3 were compatible (there was no 2). Compute module 4 introduced new headers but not all are actually used.

compact quartz
#

Did 1 and 3 have just as many variants?

old haven
#

No, 3 only had with and without emmc

compact quartz
#

With 32 for the CM4, it would also seem weird to obsolete them all with a CM5, but 🤷‍♂️

spring tundra
nova osprey
#

That question has been asked and I believe I saw something from a person at the RPi Foundation saying that they had built expandability into the connector for that very purpose but that they never talk about future products.

latent fern
#

There’s a point of diminishing returns when it comes to raw processor power for HA. I suspect your storage device is probably a bigger factor

fathom pecan
fathom pecan
#

Why you did not consider shipping from EU? You could save 10% of the price.

old haven
#

CrowdSupply is part of Mouser and Mouser does all the logistics

#

that's requirement for working with CrowdSupply

frail narwhal
#

Hello!
I'm brand new to HA I've ordered an Amber kit but since it's not delivery until spring I'd like to start learning now.
I have ordered a compute module 4 that I will have to Amber kit now is my question if I can put it on an IO card for so long and be able to run HA on this and then transfer the compute module to Amber when it comes? Like this or a simpler one.
https://se.rs-online.com/web/p/raspberry-pi/2064868/?cm_mmc=SE-PLA-DS3A-_-google-_-PLA_SE_SE_Raspberry_Pi_%26_Arduino_%26_Development_Tools_Whoop-_-(SE:Whoop!)+Raspberry+Pi-_-2064868&matchtype=&pla-338638495366&gclid=Cj0KCQjwqp-LBhDQARIsAO0a6aLppUzgQed5tLBoU7vjaAPeqlCSHsgEFrSOlD0nyuSXMSQ0mOamvqgaAiDaEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

shut cedar
#

Yes, HAOS should work with the CM4 on the official CM4 IO board.

frail narwhal
#

Thanks!👍

fathom pecan
drifting kestrel
#

Hi, I have try to find this information on your website, but not successfully 😦 I have 2 questions.

  1. How many ZigBee devices dos the Chip support native (without the mash from other devices)
  2. I have read in the comment, the I can not use Zigbee and Thread at the same time, it is true ?
wanton tapir
#

the SiLabs MGM210 module can support up to 64 direct children -depending on how FW is set. By nature zigbee is a mesh network and having router/repeating nodes is best practice. The module can not do both zigbee and thread at the same time, as it's the same 2.4 ghz radio that is used so it's one or the other.

tacit owl
#

If you are not using routers in your ZigBee network then you are doing it wrong.

shut cedar
# wanton tapir the SiLabs MGM210 module can support up to 64 direct children -depending on how ...

The module can not do both zigbee and thread
Afaik, in theory, this is possible if its on the same 2.4GHz channel: Since Thread and Zigbee are IEEE 802.15.4 protocols, the medium access (air) is controlled with the same algorithm. Think of Ethernet: Different protcols can run on a single Ethernet network. Each 802.15.4 protocol forms its own network with a unique PAN ID. The lowest layer could then multiplex packages according to the PAN ID (send Zigbee to the Zigbee stack, send Thread to the Thread stack).
That said, from current SiLabs documentation it does not seem that this use case is supported. And I somewhat doubt that Silicon Labs is going to support that use case.

#

the SiLabs MGM210 module can support up to 64 direct children
I think the firmware I currently compiled supports fewer children. Need to find that knob 😅

wanton tapir
#

Honestly it's not really worth it... just using routers can get you more, and frees up ram in the zigbee module for other things.

drifting kestrel
#

The amount of devices is ok, but can not use thread and zigbee devices at same time ( without extra zigbee dogle) make me really sad 😦

tacit owl
#

What gateways on the market support both ZigBee and thread using a single radio?
I'm expecting it to be a while before thread devices saturate the market enough to make it worth the switching. When/if that happens, I'll run thread on amber and ZigBee on good'ol TubeZB :)

tacit owl
fathom pecan
#

@old haven hello, did you consider to develop a DIN rail support for Amber? thank you.

old haven
#

That's not currently planned

wary pivot
#

Would a Z-Pi 7 or RaZberry hat work with the available GPIO-Pins and would it fit inside the planned case?

compact quartz
#

@wary pivot the 7 looks like a good possibility in terms of connection and fit. falstaff321 is trying to aquire one to test it out

inland dust
#

I am a bit confused, does the flagship version have PoE or not? Also will I be able to buy it after funding campaign?

shut cedar
#

The flagship version has no PoE. You will be able to buy it after funding campaign, but will be slightly more expensive.

inland dust
#

Yeah, that I guess. Thing is that I prefer the PoE version and I would need to buy the compute model separate which is pretty expensive too currently.

#

Thanks tho, I'll think of how to get it.

hollow mirage
#

Will interference be a problem for the ZigBee radio, either from USB3 (like on the Pi4 w USB SSD), or the M.2 SSD?

#

or is this something that is specifically designed for?

shut cedar
#

There is no USB 3, so we don't have that problem of USB 3 signals causing interference.

#

The M.2 is connected via on-board PCIe diff-pairs, those type of signals emit almost nothing. We go through EMI testing with Amber to make sure it does not emit beyond limits. We will also check the 2.4 GHz area specifically to make sure RF performance is good.

hollow mirage
#

This was mentioned as a potential issue when swapping SSD in the Steam Deck yourself

shut cedar
#

That said, we cannot control the SSD you put on there, so we cannot control that aspect.

hollow mirage
#

Well, USB is also mostly differential signalling iirc

hollow mirage
shut cedar
#

Yes that is true, but impedance matching and making sure to always have a GND reference plane on PCB you can't do through a cable

#

Afaik, the problem with USB 3 is mostly caused by connectors and cables.

shut cedar
hollow mirage
#

Something about mandatory polling frequency I think I read somewhere?

hollow mirage
compact quartz
#

I can test if people want to send me ssds

shut cedar
#

I have one here which we know emits a lot on 800MHz that much I can tell 😄

hollow mirage
#

you presumably already have a few SSDs for testing the hardware otherwise 😆

#

800MHz would interfere with Z-Wave and LoRa, right?

shut cedar
#

Yeah I have a ADATA AX8200, that one showed that pick on 800MHz. Not sure though if its harmful for the 2.4GHz RF performance, I'd had to test that specifically

shut cedar
hollow mirage
#

a single peak is probably not that problematic

shut cedar
#

Yeah probably not a problem for RF. Presumably on-board memory is clocked at 800MHz, which seems to emit quite a bit somehow

hollow mirage
#

some rf shielding around that could help I guess?

keen parcel
#

Yeah slap one of those anti-radiation stickers on it

thick parrot
#

woah , almost 500k on the crowdfunding

old haven
#

SO CLOSE

keen parcel
#

Can I have my amber now please

mystic iron
#

I would say thats a great result. We all know things cost more than predicted so more money could lead to more enhancements

latent fern
#

$503,839 raised with an hour left

wary pivot
#

Does that count as "missing the $140,000 goal"? 🤪

latent fern
#

in a Price is Right fashion

tacit owl
#

22 min are left

wary pivot
#

Just a little question out of curiosity. The name "Home Assistant Blue" was kind of obvious, as is is the brand color. Is there any story about the name "Amber"?

compact quartz
#

It was the color again

latent fern
agile knoll
#

Bought two of these as gifts (for guys teetering on using Home Assistant) - I bet Home Assistant Analytics will report a big spike in users following the release of this...

humble cave
#

no one got me one as a gift 💔

frosty cypress
#

Treat yourself. You're worth it!

clear creek
#

than, you need to negotiate a deal for everyone on mod team to get samples. so you can give feedback and assist the community 😉

humble cave
#

@clear creek I do mostly hang on #330990055533576204 so actually it's kind of a valid argument 👀

dusk sigil
#

Who told you that?
The link from the description clearly state it has?

humble cave
#

He must have realised 😅

dusk sigil
#

Aaaaand the message I responded to magically disappeared, I guess they looked eventually 😅

humble cave
#

and I was getting a screenshot ready

crystal wharf
#

it's a bit weird there's not much emphasis on that in the promo materials tho

dusk sigil
#

It has a dedicated arrow in the overview image

#

As one of four, I’d say that is very well highlighted

crystal wharf
#

oh, haven't seen that one yet somehow

#

that's all cool then

latent fern
#

now we get to guess which arrow everyone's talking about 🙂

keen parcel
#

#teamzigbee

honest bone
#

Without any extra antenna, do you think no issue with all stuff running on it ? Wifi, Zigbee, BLE ?

old haven
#

We don’t recommend using WiFi but instead use Ethernet, as it’s the backbone of your home

shut cedar
fresh bough
#

They are absolutely not

#

Under any circumstances

thick parrot
#

lol. ill second that. "...ever"

compact quartz
#

what kind of phones you rockin?

shut cedar
#

By experimentation, the well tuned internal chip antenna did better than the external 2.4GHz antenna on the MGM210P module 🤷‍♂️

fresh bough
#

In that specific usecase, sure, perhaps, but your comment was a general remark, and I replied to that, but I can only speak from 20 years of WiFi tuning with large scale deployments 🤷‍♂️

shut cedar
#

I just said they are overrated 🙂 So many people buy a different external antenna with higher dBi, and then are surprised that it did not help much. In the end you don't get more dBm. You can just move your antenna away from noise and make it directional. Which of course can make a huge difference!

fresh bough
#

Exactly

tacit owl
#

But why are you not using an external antenna on you mobile phone 🤔

wary pivot
#

Does anyone know, if Lewis (Everything Smart Home) got the Aeotec Z-Pi 7 working with Amber's GPIO pins? Just heard in the last release stream, that he wanted to try it with the newest Z-Wave JS version.

shut cedar
thick parrot
zenith gorge
#

any chance for a z-wave radio in the Home Assistant "Forest" or whatever it's called

old haven
#

We're working on validating if the Aeotec Z-Pi 7 works

#

otherwise you will need to use a Z-Wave USB stick

shut cedar
#

Forest? 😆

spring drum
#

hello, is it still possible to pre order amber kit?

wary pivot
fresh bough
#

You jest, but we shipped 3PAR storage systems in Mahogany boxes, the boxes were shipped back after installation and polished before being shipped out again with a new system

wary pivot
maiden musk
#

Quick question please. I really interested in getting amber. I am running HA right now through Proxmox as VM on an old dell laptop. I am wondering how difficult is it gonna be to move my HA instance to amber if I get it. I am not very tech savvy but I can follow guides

thick parrot
#

you may want to ask over in one of the install channels, like #330990055533576204 if you dont get a reply here after a while.

compact quartz
#

@maiden musk if you are running HA OS then you can use the backups from Supervisor > Backups to restore to the next HA OS. It doesn't matter what it is running on.

maiden musk
zenith gorge
glossy basin
#

I really like this product. congrats guys. This would be really good for my customers. How soon do you guys thing they would be ready for sale?

tacit owl
#

Once the chip shortage cease to exist?

latent fern
#

There are projected shipping dates on the crowdsupply site next to the options

fresh bough
#

2025 you say

latent fern
#

the boards will have a nice patina by then and will need to be called "Greenish"

fresh bough
#

🗽

glossy basin
hybrid sluice
#

Is the amber board a custom board besides the RPI?

latent fern
#

yes, the compute module connects to it

#

handy picture from crowdsupply:

hybrid sluice
#

so if it's a custom board than it should be better than my argon m.2 RP4 setup correct?

compact quartz
hybrid sluice
#

neat!

keen parcel
#

There’s a 6-month lead time on the higher-spec’d CM4 modules on element14 😦

latent fern
#

you'll get it just in time!

keen parcel
#

🤞

keen parcel
#

ordered it.

green elm
#

Welp, my Blue just completely died on me. So I'm glad I got in on the Amber on launch day. But this is going to make me more impatient about the lead time. 😆

shut cedar
#

Welp, my Blue just completely died on me.
Ugh, what happend?

green elm
#

All four USB ports have died, and I need to reflash the OS onto it because of some corruption.

#

But no way to exit to the shell without the USB ports working so... I'm stuck.

#

Did some searching on ODROID's forums and they have confirmed it is an issue with the N2+, but Ameridroid won't RMA it because they only offer four weeks of warranty coverage. Which, to their credit, after having to be escalated, Ameridroid says that's passed on from ODROID, and they've tried pleading with them to extend it, but ODROID refuses.

#

Frustrating that it's due to a known issue on the board, but 🤷

shut cedar
#

Yeah I've had one dying on me too, but it was a week or two after unpacking it, so it got still replaced. When did you buy yours/what version?

green elm
#

Ordered release day of the Blue. So December of last year.

#

Not even a year old.

fresh bough
#

Great build quality 🥳

green elm
#

Yeah, exactly. That's what frustrates me the most, ODROID themselves have confirmed it's an issue, but don't do anything to make it right out of a four-week window. As if that issue will surface in four weeks.

keen parcel
#

wow four weeks is ridiculous

#

if they tried that on here in Aus the ACCC would tear them a new one

fresh bough
#

Hello Norwegian five year extended warranty for all electronics

sharp kestrel
keen parcel
#

a year is pretty standard

#

but yes you'd have to buy locally

mystic iron
#

@fresh bough but a blue cost 3000nok and only available in one shop :p

old haven
#

💛

#

The name has changed from Home Assistant Amber to Home Assistant Yellow.

keen parcel
#

Why tho

supple robin
#

lol

rigid ocean
#

Apparently it was named after the dev's gf Amber and after they broke up it was awkward so they just kind of changed to something with a similar meaning to avoid any hard feelings

fresh bough
#

And it was all yellowwwwwwwwwe

frosty cypress
#

As a Swede I feel obliged to say I like where this color scheme is going.

keen parcel
spring drum
#

it would be good to include the z wave in HA yellow ahah 😄

frosty cypress
#

It seems to be easy to add yourself.

green elm
#

Guess the next one has to be Home Assistant Red to cover all the primaries.

fresh bough
#

too bad for people with red\green colourblindness

graceful zealot
fresh bough
#

Home assistant eeeeeeeeeeh you mean

graceful zealot
keen parcel
verbal stump
#

I would like to see final case 😛 just so I can make a icon for it 😛

junior shoal
#

Hey, I'm new to the home automation scene and reading up on all the options available. I'm trying to understand what the home assistant yellow really is and why its so popular. As far as I can tell its just a small computer with a zigbee module. What would be the benefit of running this device compared to just installing home assistant on my server and adding a usb radio?

fresh bough
#

If you already have a server you wouldn't need a yellow, I'm also guessing said server is x86_64 and has a lot more headroom

wary pivot
# junior shoal Hey, I'm new to the home automation scene and reading up on all the options avai...

If you don't already have a server running 24/7, a single board computer (e.g. Raspberry Pi, Odroid N2+ [aka. Home Assistant Blue] or the upcoming Yellow) has the benefit of a low power consumption. The benefit of Yellow itself is the integrated Zigbee module (which should be upgradeable to Thread/Matter later) and convenience. The integrated components will work "out of the box". You can use your own hardware without problems, but you also have to do your own research if the components are compatible to Home Assistant.
The advantage of own hardware (e.g. a x86_64 server) might be a more powerful system.

keen parcel
fresh bough
distant gazelle
#

So I totally pre ordered HomeAssistant Yellow a couple weeks back thinking it was going to ship yesterday lol! Guess I was too excited to see the year 😆.

compact quartz
#

It would be nice to have had the chip shortages and shipping bottlenecks resolved yesterday 🙏

zenith gorge
#

why the name change from amber to yellow?

keen parcel
old haven
#

We renamed it to prevent a potential naming conflict

silent totem
#

BTW, I tried one of thoose POE hats for rpi and they work great. Really cheap aswell

grim wedge
#

The issue I have with the PoE hat (I still use it though) is no raspbee 2 🙂 Still looking into alternatives, zoe2 looks like a promising replacement (CC1352P Radio + RTC + PoE "HAT"), though I might just go for a CC2652R1 external USB antenna.

dusky hollow
#

Which data would be exactly on the eMMC storage and which one on the NVMe? Thx

strong temple
# keen parcel if they tried that on here in Aus the ACCC would tear them a new one

Yup. Selling a product knowing it was defective before it even left the factory? Yeah, the ACCC and the various State-based Consumer Protection authorities would soon put a very fast and very hard stop to those sort of shenanigans. The term 'Not Fit for Purpose' comes to mind. Heavy fines designed to make sure manufacturers ensure their QA is up to snuff will otherwise stop it.

loud swift
limpid sequoia
# shut cedar

Not to rummage to much in the past, but was this done with a Pi with B0 or C0 stepping? The C0s apparently run a couple degree's cooler (and OCed to 1.8 Ghz should match the temp of the B0 on 1.5 GHz default speed for those who want/need more power out of it)

shut cedar
#

@limpid sequoia the CM4 only came with the C0 stepping, so this was made with the C0.

jagged kindle
#

jope this is the right channel, i had a power failure cuple days ago. now when HassOS boots, it won't get a dhcp address(other computers do), i tried plugging in a isb NIC and it dosen't either. when i run the command 'network info' from the cli both interfaces show as disabled. i have tried using the update to set the method to auto, but i get 'context deadline exceeded (client.deadline exceeded while awaiting headers).'

#

both interfaces say they are connected, and enabled.. the method say disabled, and when i use update to set the method to auto i get that message

graceful zealot
jagged kindle
#

ok thanks

dusky hollow
#

just found out that the platform statistics doenst show all min,max, mean,... anymore as sensor attribute. is it true that i have to create a specific statistic sensor for each by now?

latent fern
#

It is

dusky hollow
#

thank you.

keen parcel
#

Boo-urns

supple cape
#

ey, as someone who is going to move and want to start with home assistent i think the yellow box is good piece to start with. only i want to order the POE kit. but which version of the CM4 would you guys recommend to get with it?

shut cedar
#

I recommend anything with more than 2GB of RAM. If you get a NVMe for it right away, you can get a Light version, otherwise I'd go for the 32GB eMMC variant.

supple cape
#

Ah oke thnx! Now I'll have to find one that is able to deliver by June hehe

fresh bough
#

Good luck DogeWink

mystic iron
fresh bough
#

You'd pick 4g connectivity over usable storage? Interesting

mystic iron
#

I am thinking to use one for a sensor box. Zb, zw and gsm

fresh bough
mystic iron
#

😉 i know im crazy, but might run my gsm on a laptop so if power goes out i can connect via that (all smart, water relay, fire detector etc will still be connected with ups)

keen parcel
#

oh wait wrong product era

limpid sequoia
silk oracle
#

Hi. Need insight on Yellow. 1) Says it is "ready to go out of the box." Does this mean the Home Assistant app will auto find the "server" and I can get to setting up automations with it? I do not know linux or command lines or any of that stuff. That is a huge turn off, which i think yellow might help alleviate. 2) "The CM4 is a version without wireless" Am i understanding then that MOST devices use a mesh network of zigbee or z-wave then? I have a lot of devices, will this thing cover the majority?

supple robin
#
  1. yes, should be discoverable after initial boot automatically by the companion apps
#

depends on your network though, if you have a basic setup without any special tweaks you should be fine

#

a host setup with haos.iso/img will get you the same, you just need to flash it. no need for linux experience

#
  1. depends on the devices
silk oracle
#

thanks

compact quartz
#

@silk oracle The experience of the Yellow, compared to existing setup, will not be any different over the Blue or running your own install. "Without wireless" means WiFi. It should be connected using ethernet, or you can get your own CM4 which includes wifi

silk oracle
# compact quartz <@!747214570581655603> The experience of the Yellow, compared to existing setup,...

Thanks. while i love to tinker the issue is that I am not at all familiar with Rasberry pi and everything surrounding it. I could learn of course, but that is time invested away from my other projects. I am running smart things now and it is pretty limited. I like how robust Home assistant sounds and looks, hence going down this path. Anyway all CM4s are sold out everywhere, so i guess i have some time to think on this.

compact quartz
#

Anyway all CM4s are sold out everywhere, so i guess i have some time to think on this.
I'm in the same boat

latent fern
#

Yellow won't show up until later this year anyway

humble cave
#

@silk oracle assuming you have a decent computer you could try, if you wanted, HAOS as a VM on your computer for example (albeit you might consider that difficult but official documentation does exist on the website and it's really not that difficult) to see what it's like. It doesn't have to be a full blown installation and having to run your computer 24/7. Just keep it up for a few hours here and there. But would give you an idea of the kind of devices it will find already in your network. And you could get the hang of it.

silk oracle
# humble cave <@!747214570581655603> assuming you have a decent computer you could try, if you...

LOL I thought about that, but considering from the 3rd word on the instructions page, i assumed i would be wasting my time. Why? It says "Download the appropriate image" and lists 4 file types (which i assume are different VMs). Umm ok.. . Whiich is appropriate? How do I know? Then, further down it says "Create a virtual machine." Yeah umm...ok. How? Do I click the file? Is this something built into windows? HOW TF DO i do this? See, this is the thing when technical people write documentation they "think" its good but in actuality it sucks ass right out the gate.

#

BTW, the funny part is I AM "technical" just IN my specific field. But to assume someone to download a file of unknown type onto their PC with no explicit instructions is a bold assumption.

#

VirtualBox (.vdi), KVM (.qcow2), Vmware Workstation (.vmdk), Hyper-V (.vhdx) i what i am looking at.

humble cave
#

The 4 files at the top of the page are named after each hypervisor/application so they are all essentially the software that will run HAOS

#

Assuming you are a Windows guy it would be Virtualbox

silk oracle
latent fern
#

that lists the software (which can be Googled) and then image that goes with it

silk oracle
#

ok you guys are awesome. Maybe ill give it a go afterall now that i found this discord. 🙂

humble cave
#

All four are the same. Each for each hypervisor. You would of course need that software first. So if you go with the image for Virtualbox you need virtualbox installed

#

and in case you do the stupid thing everyone does then find themselves in #330990055533576204 asking why it's not working

#

use ethernet! 👀

silk oracle
#

SO if nether of my laptops have ethernet port will this work? ANd yeah ill pick this up over there.

humble cave
#

not really 😬

silk oracle
#

ok good to know you just saved me some time. I only have more modern laptops no RJ45 ports. I could get an adaptor but meh.

supple robin
#

i mean, the barrier to go native install is minimal at this point

#

if you know how to format a drive - you are practically done

#

native makes it easier to use wifi

#

its still a bad idea though to run a server wireless

fresh bough
#

Usb to Ethernet ports exist and work and are made for laptops without dedicated Ethernet ports

daring cove
#

Hmm, has anyone on the yellow dev team plugged a Radxa Rock Pi CM3 into the yellow board? It is supposed to be plug compatible and with onboard AI accel and other options might make a compelling option for folks.

compact quartz
#

Looks like it's hard to find

shut galleon
daring cove
#

@shut galleon I've seen the post, thanks. And agree, I love the RAdxa stuff but getting things going the first time is similar to a form of self abuse. 😉

#

I am interested in things like if the AI accelerator might work with this PCIe implementation, what does the on-board one do (again, lack of specs, info)?,

shut galleon
#

(And if it's any endorsement, the Yellow is now perched more permanently in my rack...)

upbeat olive
#

why was it changed from Amber to Yellow?

fresh bough
#

©®™ perhaps

frosty cypress
#

pretty much

latent fern
#

Fear of Big SBC

fresh bough
#

Small endian Big SBC

keen parcel
#

Was there going to be an update or a video about the yellow this week?

#

Oh it was @shut galleon posting one. Never mind!

celest ravine
#

Sorry - new, is there a suggested Pi configuration? I'm just getting started and don't want to over/under kill the purchase. I'm sure there are tons of criteria but I just beginning the journey and migration from Smartthings/Smartlife/etc to local Home-Assistant.

fresh bough
#

Depends on your needs, a pi3/4 is finicky, a #yellow-archived is based on pi cm which is marginally better, but any used laptop or minicomputer from the last decade that doesn't run an atom cpu is an upgrade in reliability and scalability

celest ravine
#

I have a couple of machines but they are not centrally located. 1 Win10 and 1 MacPro 10.13, both are in the basement. Wouldn't I need something more centrally located, or will the network take care of it?

fresh bough
#

My ha is running in a concrete garage

#

My devices are all around the house and not even in the house

celest ravine
#

Okay, that sounds good then. I'll reuse one of my old machines. Thanks!

random nova
#

@shut galleonAre you planning on making some benchmarks between the eMMC and a M.2 disk on the Yellow?

shut galleon
#

No, I did some benchmarking last year with the CM4 reviews and those still apply (also I keep updating my Pi PCIe site with more benchmarks for NVMe drives

#

Note that not all NVMe are created equal. Many cheaper ones drop on-drive DRAM to save costs and are a bit slower for it (still plenty fast compared to the eMMC)

delicate cape
#

@shut galleon I just saw your video! I'm crossing finders that the future RPI5 compute module maintains the format so it's compatible

shut galleon
#

That would definitely be ideal!

limpid sequoia
#

I hope that with OS+Data on an NVMe it could be as simple as CM4 out, CM5 in, boot up and continue the day

keen parcel
#

Are we likely to see the Pi5/CM5 in the near future?

fresh bough
graceful zealot
keen parcel
#

The first one, then the other 😂

low needle
#

Nevermind, those are the CM4s... Oops ;)

limpid sequoia
#

I think it will be a bit before the 5 comes, also the CM4 has a product life time until at least January 2028 (according to product sheet), so that will stick around for a while

compact quartz
old haven
keen parcel
#

Getting in early and asking about CM6 compatibility

fresh bough
#

Why stop there

keen parcel
#

Indeed

warped barn
#

This is probably a silly question, but here goes. Even though the target has been hit on crowd supply. If I buy a yellow now am I still eligible to get it delivered on the dates stated? For example, will Yellow kit with power supply ship on 31 May (Assuming there are no delays of course)?

fleet cloud
#

If I plan to add an nvme to my Yellow to run HA from (I believe ’ve heard that that is possible), is it the cm4 lite I should go with or what do you recommend?

supple robin
#

you probably dont need something special

#

nvme offers plenty of speed the pi can't handle anyways

fleet cloud
#

alright. I was mostly thinking of using the nvme due to the storage

shut galleon
#

You can use either; I recommend a decent low cost NVMe so HA doesn't have to write its logs directly to the eMMC, though it should work better and longer than cheaper microSD cards

shut cedar
warped barn
shut cedar
#

Yes, people which backed before the initial target was met

#

Shipment will be done in order of when it got ordered.

warped barn
#

Cool, thanks dude. I appreciate it.

warped barn
#

Would I be right in saying there is no need for the onboard eMMC storage if you are going to add NVME storage?

limpid sequoia
#

As far as I understood it yes, which is why I go for NVMe and a CM4 lite model

warped barn
limpid sequoia
#

Fortunately I'm ahead of you on that. Already have a CM4 4GBRAM lite, Aeotec 7Z-Pi and a 128GB NVMe. Only thing missing is the Yellow.
Although I got lucky on the CM4, had to order it from a webshop in Denmark, they had a couple in stock

warped barn
#

Lucky, are they all gone on the danish website, I live in EU?

limpid sequoia
#

Unfortunately they are out of stock on all lite variants

#

A friend of mine discovered home automation and the Yellow a couple days ago and we already searched of CMs for him, it is just impossible right now to get one

warped barn
#

I'm currently buying a home, so only in the last couple of weeks have I discovered HA. Bought Yellow once I heard of it. I'm checking everywhere for CM4, but I have time.😆

limpid sequoia
#

Does anyone know if it is possible to cancel a single order and then order 2? (as my friend suddenly wants one too I think about just cancelling mine and reorder a pack of 2 to safe on shipping for the both of us)

nova osprey
limpid sequoia
#

I've ordered only around mid December last year, so probably not much of a loss in the waiting line

brisk crypt
#

Why Yellow instead of a normal Pi4?

crisp hemlock
#

because yellow contains a pi4 and more stuff

#

like zigbee, a nvme controler etc

digital gazelle
#

Since the Z-Pi 7 for the US is completely unavailable.... does the z-wave.me pi shield fit inside the enclosure and work as expected?

shut cedar
#

The RaZberry 7 Pro should really fit, not sure about the RaZberry 7. I'll see that I can verify that, stay tuned.

safe fern
#

@brisk crypt I would always go for an Intel NUC. These things are far more powerfully especially if you are going to add things like motion eye with allot of camera's. I'm not really sure why for this hardware the pi 4 was chosen. It's nice for some low end home automation but with bigger systems the CPU load of that thing is going to max out pretty soon

keen parcel
#

not everyone uses their home automation box as an NVR

safe fern
#

True but add ons like assistant relay also raise your cpu to 50% on a pi. And these add-ons and the rest of the system will only get heavier.

compact quartz
#

NVRs and Media Servers should get their own resources. And assistant relay is still maintained? It lost its functionality for me years ago when it stopped being able to broadcast a simple notification without stopping music.

humble cave
lofty crescent
#

Are there any preliminary schematics released for the Yellow project? 🙂

verbal stump
#

anyone know if the yellow in clear case is final design? just asking because I dont want to make a icon for it if its going to change

lethal timber
#

nope, it will be frosted like on the website shows

#

the other pictures are just proto types that going into final look and feel as the render picture represented it

tender arrow
graceful zealot
#

I just saw that from @shut galleon’s yt community post. Seems very neat!

loud swift
#

Will we be able to run the internal Zigbee module with zigbee2mqtt instead of ZHA? I'm mainly wondering about it in regards to migration issues (entity names and such).

fresh bough
#

You could just get one without and run a Poe coordinator with zigbee2mqtt add-on, but I guess you can probably use the module with the same add-on if you have haos

loud swift
#

Ok. Thanks.

#

Looks like z2m only supports those Ti chips. Guess that'll gonna be a fun one.

fresh bough
#

Not really

#

It supports more

#

But TI is definitely the best choice

loud swift
#

Yeah, I have a CC2652 based one right now. I'd rather not have a dongle stick out of the Yellow, tho. Ah, I guess we'll see. It'll still take a while until manufacturing and delivery, anyway.

fresh bough
#

I had a cc1352, then a zzh, now I use a Poe 2652 coordinator

loud swift
#

Yellow is a neat little package, thus why I pre-ordered one. Especially the NVMe integration looks nice, for long term reliability.

fresh bough
#

Anything is better than SD, but nvme is readily available on any platform the last decade

loud swift
#

Sure. But if I want to use it now on my Pi4, I'd have to jerryrig something. Frosted glass square looking unobtrusive would be nice.

night moth
#

Probably was already answered. I cannot find the information. Will there be a future of the crowdfunding with better shipping price (EU) ?

shut cedar
#

We plan to continue sell it, and likely will work with various distributors. But not settled yet.

night moth
#

Ok thanks. I will wait then.

shut cedar
#

Btw, while CrowdSupply/Mouser costs a bit to ship, the good thing with them is that they also do the taxes etc. (at least for most European countries). So you won't get an additional invoice from the shipping company.

night moth
#

Mhhh you mean the distributors will make a separate bill to deliver the yellow.

shut cedar
#

I don't know, that will depend on the distributor I guess.

#

Just saying, CrowdSupply ships DDP usually (delivery and duty paid)

night moth
#

Ok thanks for the information

green ledge
#

Will yellow have any sort of "special" software that will be hard to recreate/install if you wipe the original os it comes with?

silent totem
humble cave
#

even if that was the case the image would be available on github under the Operating System repository

compact quartz
#

@green ledge if you get your own CM4 you'd have to install it on your own to start with

weak sable
#

dare I purchase a CM4 with 2gb RAM or wait for the 4gb?

latent fern
#

Depends on what addons you plan to use. 2GB is probably plenty for most folks

weak sable
#

I can offload some of the heavy lifting on dockerized containers on my main computer if needed. This is mostly for lights and a few cams (cams are on main server as well)

latent fern
#

My VM instance with lots of automations and a few light addons hovers from 1-2GB

weak sable
#

ah that is too close for comfort. I'll wait to have some more breathing room!

fresh bough
#

Cameras adds a lot of load

#

Especially if you are doing any detection

latent fern
#

Best done on another machine

warped barn
# latent fern Best done on another machine

When you say, best done on another machine, is that another machine running home assistant (so you would have two different instances of HA)? Will this other machine then integrate into your overall HA setup, so you can see live camera feeds on HA interface? Hope this makes sense. Thanks

frosty cypress
#

Another machine running software optimized for handling cameras and object detection - which Home Assistant isn't.

fresh bough
#

Could be the same machine running HA, just not a yellow or a pi overall

warped barn
#

Thanks guys

#

What is the limitation of the pi regarding security cameras, the cpu?

fresh bough
#

Unless you add something like a coral it can be quite cpu intensive, depending on the generation it can be instructions or the storage/network subsystem

humble cave
#

of course depends if you mean just watching camera streams or actually doing some sort of recognition

latent fern
#

And you said that you already had another server, so that's likely a better option

wintry helm
#

haha just my luck, I just spent money on a zigbee router, and now I see Yellow

keen parcel
#

It’ll be another trip around the sun before you see your Yellow if you order today

wintry helm
#

ah well, in that case at least I will have some use for my zigbee hub and the one zigbee device I am trying to connect it to

#

😅

#

have you considered addint RTS too ?

#

that's yet another hub I have connected to my hub

#

anyway it looks beautiful, I hope the transparent casing stays for the production version

#

also any chance it will be able to do graphical output ? would be nice to be able to connect a monitor to it and have it show things like system status

#

bandwidth, CPU load, temperature, norifications, that kind of thing would be great

#

maybe give it a local Lovelace dashboard

keen parcel
#

It doesn’t have a video port, and HAOS doesn’t run a GUI. So my money would be on ‘no’.

#

The whole point of it is to run headless somewhere

strong pelican
#

I had to cancel my CM4, I realzied I ordered the WiFi vairant and as long as I had the PoE WiFi was useless. My problem now is I'm building in Sept and no Yellow to start the house off right 😦 #FirstWorldProblems

keen parcel
#

why would you not keep the wifi variant and just not use it?

#

with the scarcity of CM4's surely you'd take what you can get

fresh bough
#

You can start your house out with any device you want, then downgrade to a yellow later 😄

heavy gale
strong pelican
#

@keen parcel also dritched the 32Gb internal storage so I could run it off a 2Tb NVMe storage so I can swap out the CM to a 5 later on down the line and not have to worry about the bootable drive.

keen parcel
#

i'm seeing a lot of talk about CM5's

#

seems a bit presumptuous that they're going to be the same form factor as the CM4

wintry helm
#

just display a background and some cards

#

though I suppose it is not that easy

fleet cloud
#

Can zigbee and zwave be on the save device without issue? I have both kinds of devices and would like to ditch the current hubs (hue and trådfri) when the yellow arrives

fresh bough
#

Sure, it's totally different frequencies

strong pelican
waxen rune
fresh bough
#

Nothing

#

You can run HA on basically anything you want

latent fern
#

A 🌮 ?

#

pretty sure that's what pdobrien uses

fresh bough
#

I should 3d print a taco case for his ha server

compact quartz
#

You still need a CM4 for that

strong pelican
#

I'm doing it to help back the company. It is nice having something that is all in one, supports matter once it is finalized and I can get rid of an extra hub and wrap it all up in one box.

foggy cairn
fleet cloud
brisk heath
#

Muppie: neither tradfri nor hue are Z-Wave, both are ZigBee

fleet cloud
#

Oh. I must’ve misread the specifications. Perfect!

serene plaza
#

I pre-ordered a yellow kit and 4gb cm4. I am very excited, it looks great.

boreal solstice
#

Is yellow going to have any better recovery from fatal crashes than std RPI running HAOS? I already run HA on CM4 with NVME drive and am tired of rebuilding from scratch every major release...

fresh bough
#

Even with nvme? @boreal solstice

#

I haven't rebuilt in 3+ years

#

Albeit, I don't run haos or a pi

boreal solstice
#

I was trying to go through the last couple of updates and one failed and now the device refuses to connect to the network. This will be the third time I've had to rebuild my system. I'm not too jazzed about it.

#

I'll probably end up changing solutions if this happens again. Too much time and energy. I take backups and those are somewhat unreliable when restored as well. I was hopeful that Yellow might have some "special sauce" rather than just being preinstalled.

fresh bough
#

Are you running stable or beta or dev? If the former you should be fine, but I've never run #330990055533576204 so no idea

boreal solstice
#

Hard to know. It looks like the supervisor has lost its mind (or at least its configuration). I run stable based on the pi image. I runs pretty well in the CM4 setup. I think what is happening is that one cannot delay updating. The update process works well most of the time, but when it fails, all hell breaks loose.

#

I think I was three or four versions behind (because of the constant breaking changes)

fresh bough
#

Yeah, I have probably had two upgrades fail in 3+ years, one i had to fix by adding packages when running #551864459891703809 and one i just rolled back to the previous docker image when I ran #449717345808547842

#

I usually update once every 2-3 months

#

Unless critical fixes come

boreal solstice
#

It is pretty hard to fix without a network connection though. One could back out or restore via the cli, but nothing works without the network.

fresh bough
#

As the underlying OS is totally independent

#

Home assistant never breaks the host OS

boreal solstice
#

Since they rip out lots of the standard linux tools, it is a bit tough to debug.

fresh bough
boreal solstice
#

I don't know. I didn't really want another ecosystem to take care of. I had my fill of Kubernetes/Containers/lxd when I was working. I have other hobbies to absorb my time.

#

I have two Voron printers on hold and some milling to do. I seem to always have to be fixing this damn thing. I am tired of my wife asking me why her automations aren't working...

fresh bough
#

Eh, i run a full docker compose stack for ha, it takes 5 minutes to update wherever i update ha

boreal solstice
#

Its nice when it works.

fresh bough
#

And my wife never asks why they aren't working

boreal solstice
#

LOL

#

I was part of an OpenStack team. It was more a pile of crap. Too many monkeys typing on the keys...

fresh bough
#

See, never trust people

#

(best regards someone who works alone 95% of the time)

boreal solstice
#

Yeah, but even the finest tools gain features/capabilities/complexity until finally nobody understands how it all works.

fresh bough
#

Hello HAL

boreal solstice
#

"I'm sorry Dave, I can't do that."

fresh bough
#

My mind.... Is going

#

But at least my HA never crashes

boreal solstice
#

Thats goodness.

#

Thanks for the chat. I think I'll wait till tomorrow to tear into this. Maybe a Whiskey is in order...

fresh bough
#

Or three, make it lagavullin or Laphroaig

boreal solstice
#

Hey! I'll break out the Lagavulin. Sounds like a good choice for this evening.

#

🥃

old bone
#

Which port is the zigbee radio connected to? I don’t see anything from silicon labs listed in the hardware list and when I try to install ZHA it gives me 3 tty options.

fresh bough
#

lscpi -vvv would probably tell you

hushed coyote
#

Is there a list of supported Zigbee devices for the HA Yellow? I currently have a Pi with HAOS and a Raspbee II - it works well but has its issues. Being that Yellow is entirely new hardware, is the community going to have to rewrite all the hardware support? Tuya, Yi, LUMI, Hue, etc etc etc

fresh bough
#

Raspee uses gpio headers right? So that is a no-go for #yellow-archived i guess and afaik it comes with a ZigBee module

#

And if you buy a #yellow-archived I'll guess you will be using ZHA anyway, which should support all of those

humble cave
#

what's stopping you from using Z2M anyway? Ah I guess there's currently only experimental support for Silicon Labs chips

hushed coyote
#

I'm used to using the deconz Add-On and integration. I've bought devices based on what it supports.

graceful zealot
#

And if they don’t you can add support for them

keen parcel
#

lol deconz

hushed coyote
#

@keen parcel - not sure what you're laughing at specifically - but it's worth saying - I feel like the raspbee II/deconz/phoscon solution is one too many levels of abstraction. I use it because it was the manufacturers prescription. ZHA sounds like it would be more reliable and easier to maintain. Dont love having to back up both HA and Phoscon

fresh bough
#

Zigbee2mqtt is easy to backup

shut cedar
nova osprey
keen parcel
#

The “lol” is a commentary on the often Sisyphean task of getting deconz to work.

hushed coyote
#

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding - but isn't "deconz" a collective brand name for the wire level protocol and firmware running on the Conbee/Raspbee devices? Hence, no matter what software layer you're running, you have to "speak deconz" over the hardware IO to the conbee/raspbee devices? If so, and the "dresden elektronik hardware" is reliable, then isnt "Phoscon" the real problem?

fresh bough
#

Looooots of users have issues after migrating to ZHA or z2m with it

#

So the hardware isn't great

nova osprey
#

I must be lucky, then, I haven't had a single issue since switching to ZHA.

nova osprey
fresh bough
#

Well, only the people who have issues complain, but we used to have 3-5 people a week in #zigbee-archived

#

And all their issues vanished by switching coordinator

rustic yew
#

Hey all - So I'm starting completely from scratch with HA, and HA Yellow seems really enticing. My head is still spinning from initial research, but if I wanted to have both z wave and zigbee products, would I want to get something like an Aeotec Z-Stick 7 to go with the Yellow? Am I reading right that the zigbee side would be covered by the stock HA Yellow?

hushed coyote
#

Hmm... at the moment my biggest issues are (and these are the reasons I'm looking at replacing with a Yellow)

  1. power outages kill the SD card. I've used numerous different SD cards, different settings (minimal writes, etc) - and I'm about 90% guaranteed that an outage will require re-imaging. Very tired of it. I've gotten pretty good at re-pairing all my devices however much I hate doing it.
  2. You just cannot upgrade the Raspbee firmware if you're running Phoscon via the HA add-on. This is from the Raspbee guy himself. Worse than that, even running Phoscon directly on a Pi via their own SD card image, the Raspbee firmware upgrade has always failed - the reason being it always tries to install Conbee firmware on to a Raspbee (as declared in the logs) - no answer in their forum as to why it's doing this. Their software layer is supposed to auto upgrade the Raspbee when an update it available. Never worked. The only way I've ever been able to upgrade was manually on Raspbian command line. This is why I'd love a solution where the IO layer is as thin as possible. Something more like Bluetooth HCI (the host controller does EVERYTHING)

So, given I want a "house lights just work without having to mess about with software" solution - I'm a bit over Pi+Raspbee.
Actually I should clarify that statement - I use home automation because I love messing about with this stuff. I just don't want to HAVE to mess about with it unless I'm in the mood.

fresh bough
#

The first issue can be alleviated by running HA on anything but a pi, they are great kids toys but beyond that... Any laptop or minicomputer from the last decade will be an upgrade, currently my environment is running on a 14 year old rack server.
Second issue can be alleviated by moving to any sane coordinator, the TI based CC coordinators are supported by both ZHA and zigbee2mqtt and can be flashed from any Linux or windows machine

#

I have had one unscheduled downtime of HA in 3+ years, it was my own fault because of dependency errors in #551864459891703809

#

Home assistant in itself is great and stable

#

What people run it on is another story

hushed coyote
#

@fresh bough I totally get what you're saying about the variance in hardware platforms. I don't need another server to maintain however. I'm keen to get as close to a CE appliance as possible. My theory is that if there is a self updating operating system image from an active community, then that's a lot less work I have to do. Running a full fledged O/S with all its features (and hence surface area) + massive power consumption in comparison-- not the direction I want to go.
Curious - what specifically is wrong with Pi hardware?

fresh bough
#
  1. The power subsystem is horrible (for pre 4)
  2. The storage subsystem is horrible (for pre 4, and even on 4 running on a SD card is doomed to fail)
  3. The io subsystem is horrible (pre 4)
#

As the Ethernet is attached to usb internally etc, and share the bus with said controller

hushed coyote
#

Ok, so ruling out "pre-4" (which I was doing anyway)... then you're fine with Pi4+eMMC or NVME?

fresh bough
#

I'm not fine with it, but it will work

#

But I have standards, working with 100% uptime systems and supercomputers

hushed coyote
#

Oh, ok, bad ethernet? What specifically? (what issues would I expect?)

#

I see - your bar is much higher than CE

fresh bough
#

Low throughput, intermittent package loss

hushed coyote
#

Ok, I guess you and I have far different expectations. I've run consumer level HD streaming solutions on pi4 with no issues - packet loss is totally recoverable at that level, and I'm not even doing video streaming on this HA device. If that level of quality was expected of CE devices, we'd still be living in a time where the average joe couldn't afford home automation 🙂

#

I just ordered a Yellow. Happy to suck it and see.

fresh bough
#

Yes, pi4 is fine io wise

#

Pre 4 is the issue

hushed coyote
#

Thanks for your input. Curious @fresh bough what's your professional domain?

fresh bough
#

Enterprise hardware and services

#

Mostly virtualization, Unix, HPC and networking

hushed coyote
#

Good space to be in - relatively safe from COVID impact too I suspect. Great chat. Thanks everyone, I'll be back for a whinge if my Yellow gives me grief when it arrives in 4 months 😂

dusky hollow
keen parcel
vale ember
thick parrot
#

Chief? Heh

blazing walrus
#

I bought a standard yellow kit, since I preferred a pre assembled kit. But is there any chance I'll get Poe on it ?
Is it possible to change my pledge ?

warped barn
blazing walrus
#

It's really a shame that there is no premade kit with Poe. I'm thinking about coupling a switch to an ups. So that really would be a perfect solution. Anyway I hope someone tells me how I could get Poe (maybe using a poe hat)

fresh bough
#

From what I can see on the circuit board you cant go from non poe to poe easily

#

appears the power regulator is soldered on

#

Guessing that is the PA2467NL

limpid sequoia
#

Considering the new Lockdown in Shenzhen, how does the timetable currently look like? Is it still on track for the first Kit Units around Mid-Year or does it all move back a bit?

quartz quest
#

Hi, since the yellow is going to be open source… would a STEP file be released for the enclosure for those of us who’d like to rock a 3D printed one for further personalization?

shut cedar
#

Should be possible, I'll keep it in mind.

#

That said, the enclosure is design for injection mold, so YMMV... I did 3D print earlier iterations, but its not ideal to 3D print. Just saying.

quartz quest
#

Well having the design and hole pattern… it’d make it much easier to recreate a new enclosure for it

dusky hollow
#

Hi all, can anyone tell me if Thread products like the Nanoleaf Lightstrips and Eve Door & Windows products can be paired with the Homeassistant Yellow's Open Thread chip?

nova osprey
#

I mean, probably, Thread is Thread, and the MGM210PA32JIA2 that Yellow uses is OpenThread compatible. But Thread is just transport, not application support.

fresh bough
#

I'm still not fully convinced thread won't just be vaporware

nova osprey
#

Thread already exists in products.

#

Matter, on the other hand..

fresh bough
#

Well, yes

wanton tapir
daring kelp
#

is yellow the new blue?

shut galleon
#

Yes

daring kelp
#

I know you

#

Im subbed

sharp lantern
#

ordered a yellow last week, but couldnt wait so got a Pi4 with conbee USB stick. loving it so far! anyone know if you can transfer settings, but more important all paired devices over to the yellow? or do i have to re-pair all devices ?

humble cave
#

changing coordinators usually requires pairing the devices again

fresh bough
shut cedar
#

I successfully moved my "production" network in ZHA from a SiLabs based stick to the Yellow prototype I am running using bellows backup/restore. I am not aware of ways to move from Conbee to SiLabs.

keen parcel
#

If anything stops me from using my yellow, other than not having received my CM4 yet, it’ll be the dread of having to pair all my zigbee devices again 😱

wanton tapir
rigid obsidian
#

what prompted the name change from Amber to Yellow?

fresh bough
#

©®™

rigid obsidian
#

that's what I suspected, but that seems kind of strange

#

I did a lookup on the USPTO website but couldn't find anything tech-related under "amber"

#

but their search is kind of awful

limpid sequoia
#

a quick google-fu shows an amber x/pro private cloud storage

rigid obsidian
#

ah yeah that makes sense

compact quartz
#

not that one though

rigid obsidian
#

considering the trademark for HA Blue is literally "Home Assistant Blue", I was assuming Amber would be similar, and that seems distinct enough from any other "Amber" product to be Good Enough for trademarking. but I guess if a company gets mad enough and threatens to send lawyers after you, then that doesn't matter 😛

#

anyway, I don't mind the name change. was just curious

dreamy plume
#

Any updates? Last on crowd supply was back in Jan IIRC

shut cedar
#

We are working on an update, should be out sometime this week. Sorry for the delay.

daring kelp
#

@shut galleon Saw your video on Yellow, ordered one as a result :p

obtuse condor
#

hello everyone, I'm new here. My name is pixelion8. I had some questions because I found out about HA & HA yellow very recently. So I want to combine two different world wich has a raspberry pie 4 as their core. 1- I have a 3d printer and I want to controlled it with a raspberry pie, also make some timelaps with a usb webcam. 2- I'm also interested in smart homes and I want to have a HA yellow. Can I combine everything together ? is the HA interface capable of installing add on for my 3d printer and all ?

hollow epoch
# obtuse condor hello everyone, I'm new here. My name is pixelion8. I had some questions because...

HA Yellow is an "appliance". You can't tinker with it, it's not a shared Pi (that's their name, not Pie). You should expect to still have additional "devices" to manage your webcam/3d printer. HA may be able to be the integration point of those (eg automate telling you when the webcam shows there's a car approaching or a person at the door or the 3d printer has stopped) but those other functions are not going to run on Yellow

fresh bough
#

Appliances are great if you can live with the limitations and are non technical, if you want to do anything that isn't part of an appliance you should do an open system

#

You could always buy a yellow and run Debian on it and skip HAOS, but then you could just buy another system

shut cedar
fresh bough
#

Sure, that requires you to know how to create said add-on, whereas a system running any form of Linux can run any docker container or native software without said add-ons

shut cedar
#

But that requires you to know how to run Docker containers 😉

#

I mean, if you are able to run Docker and understand all the flags, or setup Docker Compose YAML, you are likely capable of creating an add-on YAML. But yeah, there are tradeoffs in using a generic Distribution and a purpose built-in OS/appliance/platform...

fresh bough
#

I've seen people who run random docker containers on Ubuntu that have no idea how to set an IP address of the host, i can't imagine the same people being able to create a working add-on LeoKek

shut cedar
#

Sure, following a few steps usually gets you there. But it gets interesting once an update is necessary... Configurations lost/where is that volume?/wth is a bind mount? Or a second container is necessary...

#

In the end, a Ubuntu/Debian system running multiple services with containers, especially if they need to interact with each other, is non-trivial. I'd argue if you are able to run HA Core + Database + whatever other services you need using "vanilla" containers, you are likely capable of creating an add-on for HA...

obtuse condor
#

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I kind of understand a bit better.I can only hope that the price of raspberry pie will drop just like for the graphics cards. and have two different build. Combining both could have been really practical (and energy saving) but I don't have the knowledge to do so.

fresh bough
#

My best advice is that if you want to do a lot of stuff, a bigger system often makes sense @obtuse condor modern mini itx systems give you a lot of options and doesn't pull a lot of power

#

Can even have multiple drives for different use cases and add PCI-e accelerators

eternal jacinth
#

Hi, with the home assistant yellow device. Is there any possibility of upgrading the non-POE version to add POE support later down the line via some additional component?

fresh bough
#

Noone has said anything else at least

obtuse condor
#

@fresh bough yeah I guess none can have it all unless they are willing to make some small concessions ! i will take a look at it but the all thing being small is a big bonus

keen parcel
#

just buy the POE version and an adapter?

eternal jacinth
#

I'd prefer POE so I can run one cable, just don't want to wait until September, the non-POE is available in May

shut cedar
eternal jacinth
#

I've ordered the PoE version. I was just wondering if I can cancel, and order the non-POE version and upgrade it later.

#

But it doesn't sound like that's possible

shut cedar
#

That said, we do have the components to build PoE units, so it likely will be before September 🤞

shut cedar
eternal jacinth
#

Ah, okay, I've done basic soldering before, but not that skilled, so I guess will wait until the PoE version gets shipped.

#

Thanks for the info!

shut cedar
#

Sounds reasonable 😅 You're welcome!

dreamy plume
#

\o/ thanks for the update. (Just went out via email to backers)

Fingers-crossed the PoE SKU fix works!

limpid sequoia
#

Does anyone need a CM4 - 2GB RAM - 16GB Flash for their Yellow Kit?
I have one more at hand as then I need for mine and my friends kits.
Shipping would be from germany

eternal jacinth
#

Assuming I'm going to use an NVME SSD on the yellow board, is there benefit to getting any storage on Pi Compute module (as opposed to just getting the Lite version) e.g. will it perform better if some storage on the compute module?

#

I imagine the NVME SSD will be much faster than the eMMC on the CM4, so I'm trying to figure out if there's any benefit at all to having storage on the CM4

limpid sequoia
#

Considering that the nvme has only one pcie 2.0 link it's not blazing fast as Ads say (although still faster than eMMC), there is a great video by Jeff Geerling comparing mSD vs eMMC vs NVMe (https://youtu.be/4Womn10v71s?t=207)
You still have advantages like far better cell leveling, changeable storage where you could have a cold spare...
But aside from that currently its not the question if it makes sense to have on board eMMC, but what you can actually buy.
I'm happy I got CM4s at all, the 5 bucks extra cause the have eMMC... eh, I'll install on nvme anyway, so I don't care about eMMC size, I'm glad I got some at all in these times

dusky hollow
#

The current forecasted restock of 8gb ram CM4 lites is November.

#

I ordered a PoE yellow and I imagine I'll see that before a CM4 becomes available.

wary pivot
#

Short question about the casing: what is the planned hight of the ventilation slots (the ones above the buttons)?

keen parcel
dusky hollow
keen parcel
#

Or sell my yellow.

fresh bough
#

If current geopolitical trends continue you'll have it operational in 2025 @keen parcel

keen parcel
#

I’m switching to a VM on my Xeon box

mighty chasm
#

I just noticed that the yellow is estimated to ship end of July but the pi4 has changed to December. Should I try to get a pi 4 on my own instead?

mighty chasm
#

I guess it would be possible to cancel the cm4 order?

mighty chasm
#

No one knows?

compact quartz
mighty chasm
#

Thanks

compact quartz
#

I'd probably try finding one and then cancel if you do

keen parcel
#

Spent 6 hours trying to migrate from my Pi to my Xeon yesterday. Got nowhere! 🤦‍♂️

fresh bough
#

Well, should be a 5 minute job @keen parcel hit me up if you need guidance LeoLaugh

keen parcel
#

It’s an SQL issue

fresh bough
#

Permissions? Data corruption?

keen parcel
#

Not sure. It’s something to do with the recorder table. Possibly that when I ran the export there was an open recorder session?

#

I’m considering just dumping my whole database anyway. The only reason to keep it is my energy history, which is pretty patchy thanks to the dodgy Efergy integration.

fresh bough
#

Is it running as an add-on now ? If not you don't need to migrate it, but should export when ha is stopped, and it should be fine

#

But this is why I run influx, so I don't have to care about the flakyness of ha DB

keen parcel
#

Short answer is “yes, but…”

#

I’m about to take the dogs and baby for a walk. So I’ll check back in with you later when I’ve got time to have another crack at it.

narrow herald
#

If I purchase a yellow today when should I expect to get it?

I have all insteon devices. Is the yellow a plug and play hub for the insteon devices? Newbie to anything other than insteon, lol.

fresh bough
#

Afaik insteon uses their own proprietary protocol

#

So, you should look at replacing those at some point with an open standard product

#

ZigBee is great

zealous jay
#

I forgot, does this come with a CM4 automatically, or will I have to get that separately myself?
(I was trying to paste a screenshot of the order confirmation, but apparently that's disabled.)

#

Home Assistant Yellow x1: $175.00. From order confirmation email.

compact quartz
#

@zealous jayyou can see your details when logged in at crowdsupply

zealous jay
#

Pre-Order Home Assistant Yellow

Power Cord: US

#

So it didn't really say. It's also not clear if it'll be a CM4 with wifi and bluetooth, or not.

dreamy plume
#

I mean - you've kind of answered your own question there. If it doesn't say a CM4 is included - it isn't.

compact quartz
#

At $175, this is likely what you have

#

If you had bought the "kit" variants, you would have needed to order a CM4 as a separate item, or sourced your own elsewhere, and having it as a separate item should be indicated in the order details with its own delivery date

#

And if you had bought the Yellow Kit with Power Supply, it would be $115 with US cord and no CM4

mighty chasm
#

So I managed to cancel the cm4 part of my order, but would CM4 4GB Ram, 16 eMMC good enough? Or should I really aim for 32GB eMMC instead?

graceful zealot
#

Do you plan on putting in an m.2 ssd?

mighty chasm
#

yes

graceful zealot
#

Then you’re not gonna be storing much or any on the cm4

mighty chasm
#

ok, just found one locally for 130$ for the 16GB version

#

feels like I just should buy it even though it is quite expensive. agree?

zealous jay
#

I might end up going for an Optane SSD or something for mine once I get it.

fresh bough
#

That sounds extremely overkill for this usecase

#

Best regards someone who works with optane

shut cedar
#

The Yellow only has a single lane PCIe, there is no way it can saturate the bandwith of an Optane SSD. A cheap NVMe SSD will do alright 🙂

zealous jay
#

How about endurance?

#

Is any ordinary SSD plenty?

#

Actually, maybe the eMMC is plenty too.

fresh bough
#

Anything will be an upgrade from an SD card that the users who usually run pis run, but if you are gonna run more io intensive stuff a SSD will be better than an emmc, if not the emmc will surely suffice

cloud lava
#

noob here. so From what I understand, if you control a bunch of stuff, a rasp Pi might be underpowered and I'd need to add stuff to it depending on what I control so instead the Yellow is more ready out of the box?

#

as a noob with many Pis laying around, am I wasting time getting started with a Pi?

fresh bough
#

A pi can run what most users need, if you need more storage / io / expandability there are better options

#

A pi will start you out for sure

cloud lava
#

oh the yellow runs on pi

fresh bough
#

And you can migrate to something else later

#

Yes, a yellow is just a fancy pi appliance

cloud lava
#

eventually I want to control a bunch of stuff but for now I'm mostly looking at large ceiling led panels (for a work space)

#

i guess that should be my starting point

fresh bough
#

If that is all you could probably survived on a pi1

#

Albeit slow reboots

cloud lava
#

I got plenty of pi3.. maybe a pi4 available

#

so I'd need a zigbee adapter

#

I see the yellow is slow to ship atm.. so I guess it will be something for later

fresh bough
#

I recommend something cc2652 based, and zigbee2mqtt

cloud lava
#

thanks

mighty chasm
#

securred my cm4 now 😄 Ready for yellow!

hushed kayak
# cloud lava thanks

Also, transitioning hardware is an easy task as long as you have your config folder.

drifting kestrel
#

Does the Home Assistant Yellow really not have a 12V PWM FAN connection?

vale marten
#

hello, I am wondering if the yellow will be certified for use in Australia, the RCM certification?

cobalt wharf
#

lots of people dogging insteon lately, but I've found their RF+PLM approach to be much more robust than zwave/etc.

#

Unfortunate what happened to them - their tech was good, their marketing and business development/partnerships were not..

shut cedar
shut cedar
drifting kestrel
shut cedar
#

We have a preliminary one. I'll need to check what our plans are when we publish it. But PWM fan assembly option won't be mentioned on it 😅 . It was an option we considered in early versions, but we left it there in case someone finds it useful.

drifting kestrel
#

I mean, Yellow supports NVMe SSD, My idea is to add Docker and Grafana. Currently I already use it and without FAN, the CPU from the CM4 is ~55-65 °C. I think a slow rotating fan is silence but cool.